Star. — London, England, 1816-06-27 00:00:00

-r.. PARLIAMENTARY' PROCEBDING4 HOUSE OF LORDS; JUNE tn. The Royal Awn , was given by Commission to the MA Ca pital 818. the Unchroiri Dividends BUI, the Mat Rendit Debt Bill, the Irsh Customs Bill, the Demerara Trade," the Allen Bill, the MiStis Pay Bill, the Mint Machinery Bill, the Muria -tic Acid Bill, the Irish Grand Juries Bill, and Irish Latinist and Tenants ild4....Cossunisaioners, Lords Nixon, s _narTallatralr, end Wisciourrze. The Earl of LAUDE%DAI.E presented a Petition from Per , seas concerned in the Whale Fisheries whist the Pas Bill Laid on the Table. . Earl STANHOPE presented a Petition from the Debtors he primed In the Fleet Prhon, proving relief, end that they might not. be deprived of the benefits of the existing Insolvent Dintele Act. by adding an addition us the term of their imprisellellMeenk 'They complained of the enormous Law charges to wbkk they i subjecterLin the proceedings relative to their Debts, whin often far exceeded the Debts themselves; and they mentiooed, as an instance, that there were Seventeen Perseus among them, whose aggregate Debt washout 4500, while the Costs relative to thew Debts amounted to upwards of sett,ool% 'rho Petition Rae read, and laid on the Table.- Lord SIDMOUTH stated, that the Prime Regent would re eilive the Address on the subject of the Statute Book to-morrow. Yawl STANUOVIL and Lord CALTHOILIM were then appointed ss priraent the Adders, on the part of the House of Lords. The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE, adverting to a statement iinadiiiy bins nn a former occasion respecting Tithes in Ireland, siited his having received a letter, in which It was set forth, that in a particular instance leireland, for an meat of thirtreix WA Miles, comprising sixteens United Parishes, there was only one Church The Noble Marquis recommended to their Lord ship.' attention Mr. Pollock's Survey, which contained many va luable facts on tbls subject. It was clear that some remedy ought to be provided. RUG IN T'S CANAL.-.LAWRELATIVB TO CANAL COSIPANIVL On the motion for the third reading of the Regent's Canal. Bill, • Earl STANHOPE stated, that the plan of .ma nagement by this Company had . been exceedingly bad—that they bad not begun at any one end, and therefore lost the benefit of tolls—that they had spent all the money they had originally estimated as the expense of the plan—that they were insolvent, and Rot able to pay the demands against them, and now• they came for leave to raise as much money again as they had originally asked. His Lordship represent ed their plan of raising water from the Thames by • four Steam-Engines as absurd; and also stated that they were now to act, or had acted, in the teeth.of the Act of Parliament. He did not mean to move that the Bill be rejected. His Lordship then told a story about a Dr. Keel, who had said that he had given certain persona a broad hint. Being asked what be said to them, he replied, that he said nothing. Why, then, what did you do ?—I kicked them down stairs. He did not, however, mean to give any - broad hint of this kind to these Canal Managers, among whom.were some very respectable persons; but he thought a little hint would do them no harm; nod he proposed an amendment, the effect of which was, to hold them strictly to the terms, and within the sum mentioned in the Bill. Lord ROLLE complained that this objection came by surprise. The Chairman and others of the Com trainee on the Bill were not present, and he hoped tne objection would not be persisted in. Eat! STANHOPE.—It was no objection, hut an amend's:eat, to prevent, as far as possible, the parties from &eating themselves and others. Earl GROSVENOR said. that the proceedings in the Committee had been very candid; and. as the Noble Earl did not mean to give the parties so broad • a hint as to kick them down stairs, he hoped he would not now' persevere in an amendment which must send the parties to the other House. The LORD CHANCELLOR did not mean to object to the further progress of the Bill; but there was something in the history of these Canal Bills with which it would be, highly useful that the public in general should be thoroughly acquainted. Their Lordships required, when these Bills were brought before them, that a Plan and an Estimate of the Ex. pense of carrying it into execution, should be laid before them at the same time. The principle upon which a6ir Lordships required this was, that the Public might have some protection. against the schemes of these speculators—not meaning to apply that term in any invidious sense to the parties con eerred in this Bill; on the contrary, he wished well to the undertaking : but the meaning of presenting the Plan and Estimate was, that such was the Plan to be followed, and that the sum stated in the Esti. mate was the utmost that would be required for car rying it into execution. Now this Company had come to their Lordships with their Plan and Esti mate, and now they come to ask for double the sum mentioned in that Estiniate.—(Thor, hear). — The Noble Earl stated, that they might act in the teeth of the law; but they could not act against the law, unless individuals chose to permit them ; •tor and this was what he was anxious the public should be informed of—if they deviated one inch from the proper line, or otherwise acted in the least contrary to the law which gave them their powers, they would on application to a court of equity, be enjoined in: scantly ; and he visaed the public to be informed, that it was now clearly established, that any indivi dual whose ground these companies might be pro. ' ceeding to break, might compel them to come to a 'court of equity, and confess, if the fact was so, that theCnin:dated by them in the estimate laid before Parliament would not be sufficient to carry the scheme into execution ; and upon that confession they would instantly be enjoined from breaking the ground of that or any other individual ; for the foundation of their authority and their engagement with the Legis lature turned upon this—that the sum stated by them was sufficient to execute the plan ; and unless the fund was sufficient to execute the whole plan, a court of equity would enjoin them from executing any part of it. If, therefore, when this company were about to commence their operations between Paddiagton and the Hampstead road, any individual having pro. petty in their line had called them into a court of equity, and had compelled them, by the ordinary proceedings of such a court, to confess that the suns ‘ mentioned in their estimate would net be sufficient to terry the whole scheme into execution, they might hue been prevented from breaking one inch of that ground. These observations he 'threw out s rather with a view to future schemes of this kind than to the undertaking now more particularly under conside ration: bot if any man looked at the princtples,upon which the. Legislature acted in giving these extraor dinary powers, and to the practice of these Compa nies for a long course of time, he would easily per ceive that the practice was in opposition to the prin. tielt2 for, ever since the titne of the South Sea ous of the grounds or principles upon which ~~ the asure petelittiving u.. that the mela • b the estimate - Sur.. for the pairposeo view. .-Oh that principle 4 tent was pie to act. - Vadiiment also gave these ' powers on the -ground pairlinderscanding that the Company would act. honourably and fairly towards individuals and•their Lordships °nett to takes.= that in these Bills it shonid be distinctly pointed out against whom an individeal, who conceived himself injured by the proceedings of such Companies, was to institute his suit : for, in 19 cases tint of 20, indi viduals found themselves without relief, not because they were not entitled to it, but because they did not lenow against whom to seek it. The Bill was ordered for a third reading to morrow or Friday. ' The Saving Banks Bill, the Irish Insolvent Debtors' till, the. American Oil Trqcle Bill, the Irish Distil lery Bill, the Irish Spirit License till, the Leathee, Bill, the House of Correction Bill, the Clergy Resi dente Bill, or Glebe Houses Bill, the Appropriationl Bill, the Windsor Forest Bill, and others, were brought from the Commons, and read a first time.. The Habeas Corpus Bill was returned from the Commons with the Amendmepts agreed to. Lord SIDMOUTH, after the Saiing Banks Bill had been read a first time, stated, that objections had been made to it from a quarter deserving of every respect and attention; and that it was'not, therefore, the intention to propose that it should pass this Ses. sion. He moved, however, that it be printed, that, the best means of consideration might be afforded before the attention of the House should be called to the subject next Session. The Bill was accordingly ordered to be printed. The Earl of HARIiOWBY observed, that their Lordships-intended that the Establishment of the Church of England should continue to exist, it was necessary that, by their legislative exertions and munificence, the means should lye provided for the residence of the clergy in their parishes, and that churches should be provided capable of containing the population of these parshes. It was for the pure pose of bringing that necessity distinctly under their view that be moved that, from the various returns _ _ as to these points, lists should be made out and printed for the use of the House ; and he made a similar motion as to Ireland. Ordered accordingly. The Earl of LAUDERDALE objected to the committal of the Stage Coach Bill. Besides. that no person would agree as to what was or what was not over-driving, this Bill was objectionable in other par ticelars. Those driving against time were to be pu. niched with three months' imprisonment. Now the mail-coach drivers were I' bl iged to drive against time: and he had in his hand a mail-coach way-bill, which stated, that the driver who was behind his time in one stage was to be punished, unless he made it up in the next stage. Now, under this Bill, these mail-coach drivers would be liable to three months' imprison ment. In some of the clauses too, the language was perfect nonsense. Tl:is, however, might be cor rected if they were inclined to pass the Bill, which he hoped they would not do. This was one of the many proofs which their Lordships had of how cau tious they ought to be about Bills received from the Commons at this period of the Session. He moved that the word tiow" be left out, and the words 44 this day three months" be inserted. The question that the word , 4 now" stand part of the question was negatived : the Bill therelore was not committed, and the matter was allowed tn drop. The other Bills on the Table were forwarded in their respective stages.—Adjourn ed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. • On the Sreaaaa's return from the Royal Commission in the House of Lords, some eoliversation occurred on the third reading of the Mad-houses Bill, on which Mr. Rose brought up a clause relieving single patients confined in Titivate houses from the genea ral operation of the Bill, which was opposed by Mr. HORN ee. Mr. ROSE replied, that he had considered the subject very attentively, and the result of his inquiries and information was, it's wish to om't the present clause on that subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER support.] Mr. Rosel clause. Frequently private individual., and particularly females, were in a disordered state for a short time only ; and it seemed fit to consult, in a measure of this kind, the feel •;s of their friends and (studies. Mr. W. SMI had thought, that the reference to the Seem tary of Stake would remove all ineonvelkiicies, or the greater part of them tut he had since found very:witty objections from the friends of persons occasionally, or for a short time, deranged by temporary paroxysms. ' Mr. KENNET was rather inclined to the clause as it stood.— In unlicensed houses certificates were not required: and instances had been stated of persons confined in them for many yeare.— Some of these cases were very hard. The gallery was cleared, and the clause proposed was with drawn, and the Bill passed. Mr. PONSONBY observed, that he must suppose the Chan cellor of the Exchequer bad made his calculation of the means foe the public expenditure till next Sassion. Was it probable' then, after the corning prorogation, that Ministers would advise . the re-assembling of Parliament before January next ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER bad no objection to answer the questintras far as be could. Parliament had made provision fully for the present year: and if nothing unforeseen arose, he did not apprehend die necessity of calling Parliament together before Christmas. _ _ ' Mr. PON'ONBY acknowledged that the Right Hon. Geode. man had given a candid answer. The Report on the Game Laws was ordered to be printed. Mr. waolorEsLEy moved for an abstract of returns of Charitable Donations.—Ordered. and to be printed. Mr. BENNE'I' presented a Petition from a Mr. Thomas Vit.' tiers Systies, complaining of the misconduct of &Commanding Officur.—Ordered to lie on the table. '1 he Irish Town Lands' Fine Bill, the Irish Spirit Duty BSI, the lu sh Clerk of the Fleai 11111, - the Consolidated Fund hill, and the Beer and Spirit /Amite Bill, were read a i third time. Mr. Gkili,Nll.3.L gave notice of a motion, early nest Session, to consider the eath of the King, and for reducing the charges en the management of the Public Debt. On the third reading of the Vagrants' Bill, an aniessenent by Mr. Hue NIX, lesv!ng discretion as to punishments to the Court., was word to, alter sorae remarks by Mr.WiLesaroaca and by Colonel Woon, who contended, that 0 laws were written in blood, poaching would never tease while Gentlemen In town continued to buy Bathe for their tables.—The BM was passed. The Leather Bill, and the Windsor Forest Bill, were read a third thne. On the third reading of the Elgin Marbles Bill, an objection was made by Mr. Feller the gallery was cleared, but the SW pasted without a division. The Clergy Petlaity LW, the Chancery Courts Ail!, and the Irish Insolvent Delmore Mil, were read a third time. 1 On the second reading of the Stamp Duty Amendment BUI, Mr. JOHN SMITH objected to the exemptions bi favour of the Universities, who possessed pwit. property, which had very much improved of late. At such a time as the present no pack cular body shOuld be exempted from imposts. Mr. /MY l'H argued in favour of the exemption. Mr. GORDON contended, that the exemption having occur. red before was no reason for its perpetuation. Mr. HORNER hoped that the Right Hon. Gentleman would consider well the principle why Ecclesiastical Bellies and Colleges should be exempt from Stamps on their Leases. 'fibs CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that u the Hon. Member would being hi a Measure for the general repeal le. es• et IRIS watir fargr ei talliti RNER e •". kalleopskdse ______ Wahine that. ..The CHANCELLOR of die EZCHEOHE ioc t i laitiett • r. HORNER asked whither Egoni k W . app West seer, were exempted, as well at Isstates Lints Rohe . abd Forteseue? • An amendment was pr by' tot of the EXCUtOtII, and *greed to.-- . fterirards read a third time. Sir S. ROMILLY presented a PeskliNgesen Clotb.vrorkers at Prom, complaining, among other shateers of the effects of the ge r m lwroduction of Machinery. Mr. GORELANGTON said, the di4tresses of the country were hourly increasing,—Ordered to lie on the table. The Lords' amendments on the lucul Poor Bill were spreed to. Earl COMP lON brought up the report tif the Committee bil the African Trade.--Ordeteill to log printed. h. Mr. MANNING moved for acebunts of newts from London to the West Indian Coluolea in 1814 and 1813.—Ordered. A new writ was ordered for the county of Wigton, in the room of Sir W. Stewart, who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. A new writ was also ordered for Dumbarton, &c. in the room of the Lord Advocate of Scotland, who had accepted the office of Lord Registrar of Scotland. Udall AURRICANS. Mr. BENNETT observed, that a few•days ago two South American Spaniards, one of whom came hire for education, and the other in the way of trade, asked for passports at the Alien-office, and were told to go to Lord Bathurst's Office, which they did, and there they were informed that their passports must be signed by the Spanish Ambassador ; but their coun try was now at variance with Spain. Great trade was now carried on with Buenos Ayres, and a consi derable traffic with other quarters. He wished to know whether persons from Spanish South America coming here were to be considered as under our pro , tectien or not, and . why they should be refused pass ports ? Mr. GOULBURN said, that the usual practice at the Alien.office, when foreigners applied for passports, was to require the signature of the Ambassador. ...Mr. BENNETT remarked, that a passport so igned was useless at Santa Fe, which did not now admit allegiance to the Court of Spain. Mr. GOULBURN said, the only Spaniards who had applied, had -applied for passports to leave this counts y. Mr. BENNETT mentioned the names of the twa persons he had alluded to. Mr. GOULBURN said, he thought the first name mentioned was right. On the motion of the CHANCELIOOII of the Miens- QUM, it was agreed that the House on its rising should adjourn to Monday. He then_ moved an Address to the Prince Regent to confer some dignity in the church on the Rev. Mr. Stephens, the Chap lain of the House: agreed to. Addresses were then voted to the Regent for the sums, of £1,200 to Mr. Brogden; of £2,500 to Mr. Lea ; of 81 ,500 to Mr. Rickman ; of £495 for ex penses of an index to the Jouroals, and for compensa. t ions to clerks who had attended the Committees ; also for-the printing of the 71st volume of the Journals. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that the funds of tke Naval Asylum could not be touched without an Act cf Parliament. He inter.ded to make a full inquiry into the whole mat ter, but at present should move for a grant of 820,450 for that asylum. _ _ • _ Mr. CAICRAFT wished to know whether the interest on the fund could be made available ? . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that legal opinions had been taken, which stated that the interest already received could not be used but by an Act of Parliament. A Message from the fords informed the House, that the Regent had appointed to-morrow, at three o'clock, at Carlton. House, for receiving the Address, in consequence of the late conference; and that the Lords had deputed Earl STANNOra and Lord CAL• THORP& The House appointed Mr. Ross, Mr. BATHURST, Mr. W. DUNDAS, and Mr. PEEL, to ac company them. Sir H. PARNELL moved an Address to the Prince Regent to order means to be taken, conior mably to the Report of a Committee, for the Improve ment of the Holyhead Road. Agreed to. WEST INDIA AFFAIR& When Mr. BUTTERWORTH was about to bring for. - ward his motion for an account of the conduct of the Missionaries in the West Indies, Ste. ' Lord CASTLEREAGH rose to deprecate farther discussion on the subject at this period of the Session. After the Unanimity that prevailed on a former night, he should regret to see any thing like dissension, or a renewal of discussion. No practical good could re sult from a debate. He never understood that the advantages resulting to the Colonies from the labours of the Methodists were considered generally as goes-' tionable, or that the Honourable Gentleman, (Mr. Barham) in a former debate wished to apply his cen sures to that class of. Wesleyan Methodists to which the Honourable Member (Mr. Butterworth) belonged. At any rate Government could not now aford muse ' information than was already before the House. So far from having heard any serious charges bronght , against the Wesleyan Missionaries or the Moravian Brethren, he bad learnt that both kinds were extremely useful. He hoped the Honourable Gentleman would be satisfied with this explanation, and refrain from any discussion. Mr. BUTTERWORTH professed, that he had no wish to obtrude himself upon the attention of the House. He had conceived it his duty to move for certain papers to-answer charges made against a body of men whom he was fully plepared to defend : but as the Noble Lord deprecated the discussion, and entered into the explanation which had lust been heard, he had oply to express his satisfaction, and his wish to abstain from farther observation. He was fully prepared, when an opportunity offered, to enter upon the subject. Mr. BARHAM said,- the Noble Lord had done him no - more than justice in the saterpretstion he had given.to the sentiments he delivered or, a former night with respect to the Missionaries. He never meant to make any charge or complaint against the class of Methodists to which the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Butterworth) belonged. He indeed wasnot acquainted with the different classes of Methodists, their pecu liar tenets, or distinguishing marks and was willing to allow, either that he mistook one kind for another; or that he might mix with any one of such denoml: nations Ai Methodists, missionary isstroctors that belonged, tst .neither of them.. He spoke merely of those who called themselves Methodists, and who. • that tiros without Laving any tid e it; of who were called Methoiists by the reopi ef the colonies, but probably with as little fourdatiet in fact. He (Mr. Parham) now touched up,, ; , tit subject with regret ; but, with this explanati.n h ; meaning, he would retract n..tril, f2 L Which n e ha formerly said, and which be (Gold substanti.tt, 'proper opportunity occurred. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER bore testimony to the good conduct of the M ethodist Missionaries in some of the Colonies. He relied um p report which bad been transmitted him fr..Tn One of the Governors in the Leeward Isles. This Governor spoke in the highest terms of their conduct, and re. commended to Governrnent to grant them adoitional remuneration for their labours. Governmcrt w willing to comply ; but having asked wilat kind o f (V assistance would be most acceptable, and how it should extend? an answer was received fr om u ;e sionaries, that they wished n' pecuoi;ry A id t h at they depended upon their flocks for su ogt , and th at they demanded nothing but protection in r:,, !um. ment of their labours and duties.—(Hear, 1 141 ,..) WEST INDIAN PAPE:US. Mr. WILBERFORCE, atter a tor nba.r.rvinns, put off his Motion for Papers referring t.) r:,, importation of Slaves into the Wes: Incr eclu n i es till next Session of Parliament. Mr. BROWNE moved fora letter of Mr. Gerdel, Governor of the Colony of 13erh7ce, dated .141 114; ; , 1812, and addressed to Lord Liverpool. It was.. 4 printed among the other docoment6 chit 114 ( 1 6:r 1 produced relative to the state of that Colony. x; • . also moved for a copy of the instructions ena mel . cated by the Commissioners for managing the C re „ a Estates of that Colony to their Agent, A ca l. !aster, and alluded to in the letter of Governor G et . don_,- as likewise an account a the sums exptnded by the Commissioners on these estates, and the rcceipts ot their produce into the Treasury. Advertingstu the conversation that had just passed, he could 0( help declaring, in justice to the Missionaries, Olt, s f, far as he knew any thing of them when he resikkd in the Colonies, he could bear the most honourable te,. timony both to the parity of their private bees and the usefulness of their public lahoors.—(//ear, kear.) When he so spoke, he alluded not to their recent proceedings, but to their conduct some time ago.. The complaints against them in the Colonies at pre. sent were loud and universal ; and he was willing to allow that, whether from the rapid strides sectarian principles were making in this country, acid an into. sion of sectarian zeal proceeding from the success that attended those principles, or from an internal movement in the class of Missionaries themselves, their spirit was entirely changed. He did not blame the Wesleyan Methodists. The violence ot the West Indian Missionaries might be attributed to the lie.tted zeal of other fanatics ; but, whatever was its source, the complaints against the conduct that it inspired were general in the Colonies. The greatest discontent was every where felt. The Hon. Gentleman con cluded with the three motions above mentioned. Mr. GOULDURN wished the Honourable Metr.. ber would leave out of his motion the letter of .Governor Gordon, as it could not be icund in the Colonial Office. Mr. BUTTERWORTH, alluding to the Wed. leyan Missionaries, said, that formerly they had berm directed by the late excellent and intelligent D6ctor Coke, and subsequently to his death they were un der the direction of a Committee, who were vigilant; in inspecting, and active in controuling them. There was no reason so complain of their conduct from their interference in late events. There had not been a Wesleyan Missionary in the island of liarbadoes fur the last 17 months. Mr. W. SMITH was so far from objecting to the production of the papers moved tor, that he was moo anxious for as much publicity as could be gives, and for as full an investigation as it was possible to be- Stow upon them. As one of the Commissioners, he felt the wish for inquiry, and was convinced that the most scrupulous inquiry would lead to the toostrom. piece refutatiou of all the charges that had been. un advisedly brought against them. The letter of Go vernor Gordon, in which he speaks in very un usual language of this 's extraordinary commis. sion," was a precious document, and would chew the spirit w,th which the efforts of the Commis sioners, in making their benevolent experiment, had been seconded by the highest resident Authority. This commission, which he calls the extraordinary commission, consisted of the Chancellor of the Ex. chequer, the Paymaster of the Forces, Mr. Wilber. force, an Honourable Gentleman, not now in the House, who had been so unjustly calumniated, (Mr. Stephen), Mr. Gordon, who had been in the Wtet &t. The letter of Governor Gordon accnsel the " extraordinary commission" of pursuing mea sures that would tend to iesubordinetion among the slaves, &c. He (Mr. Smith) wished that those people who infested the colonies with their aceiviations clamours could produce as convincing evidence of the usefulness of their laheurs, and the peaceful ten dency of their principles, as the commission wi.ich had been the subject of such obloquy. The iionniit able Gentleman here read txo acts of a letter he lied received from the colony in question, evincing tie! improver/tents produced in the tempt.r, habits, iLeilt. genet-, dispositions, and orderly conduct of the ti Ives under the treatment recommended by the corrinfeame In e famine that prevailed in the colony, and cscite.t disturbances, or led to thefts on other citates, de: crown negroes committed no depredations, evin:7.2,l the greatest patience, and supplied the deficiency e: the provision allotted them from the public store , , 1:y resorting to the use of the cassava, which their cwt industry had prepared, and their own frugality laid up against a season of scarcity. The Hunotre. able Gentleman concluded by expressing his com!i - • tion that every txrimination into the conduct o::;" Commi:sioners would only place in a clearer lie,ht wisdom of the system which they were endeavouring to carry into execution, and by diffasirg on the subject. might extend its benefits by leading to its more general adoption. Mr. MA RRYAT wished a full investigation cf the subject, and thought the present motion nec.:, tar'''. as the papers already produced did not place ie a very favourable light .the conduct of the Crows Commissioners. Their expectations had not been answered, or at least their predictions had not been fulfilled. In the three years of their management, a mortality had taken plAce among the negroes 0,; t!..f crown estates duublc of that which had occurr.d iu ' I