Star. — London, England, 1804-06-09 00:00:00

p few obfervat ions Hating provided for the defence d d f the c against the aners, however able which threatened it ; h g avtog at this moment fo five h undred thitufand men in arms, a force, which, if it wa. not adequate to repel any invader, the Conn. e-y was not worth defending—the great ()Wed.* , he had repeatedly obferved, was, the augmentation of our difpnfable force. When he alluded to this. he re. ferred to the augmentation of our infantry of the line, for we had'afutheient fupply of cavalry and artillery. Under this impreffion the Members of his Majcity's late Government had applied themfelves to the con. ideratirm of this object. and formed a plan far car rying it into effed. Theybad refolved that a certain somber of fecond battalions Ihould be railed, to be attached to loose of the oldefi regiments in the fervice. o—They had determined alto that ten new battalions Should he formed. principally in Ireland and Scot t nd, with the guinea poffible difpateh. He took it fur granted that this plan was now to be abandooed; for if the Bill pinceeded, the number of men proper. td to be railed could nett be procured. Th o f e w h o were molt fanguine is their expedadons from the Bill, fruited a great deal to the patrio6fin and public fpirit of the people. He would be the lag man to di garage this pranotifio ete public fpirit. In the appli cation of the Army of Referee Ae, they bad unquef eionabiy - difpland themfelves in the molt confpicuoua *doers. By the numbers of men which, under the aid 6 t this tpi!it e that Ad bad mental. the foundation of oar 4ount7 was permanently eilablifheck What. ever fanguine expeditions Gentlemen entertained on the folded, be was free to confer that be did oat at r a r e r d %litb t h e mode in which this faeces. if it was cf . was ter be obtained. if paw taws Were to SW hi prsturing the recruits for their refiredive di4 ' trial, obey Mull of ens:ries:pee to receive tome ems. pesfation er reward for their labours: in this way . be could not help conceiving that they would aims trio rader and habit , of mere etidspe, a Species of to be detailed and bested is every virtuous inetrothity. It did not at all appear to him that in c . niliise the *lives it all of an urgent snore, it bold veraerratimnal Proffma of the jam' #lll. stied/ha Bill; eyed' if paled into a law and aidirriVretuld bad been addend for* Hoof:no-, *befog siddopmcipitation. He ter Imelda* • Ogee ad readier eof the Bill oe the 'rgefent exam: , • yith.'s. IKURNE robe to reply, which he did at. I , an .He was happy to had, from the (nab Z did Hero, Gentleman who had jell fat down, at all into the ideas ofanother Right (Mr. Alkliegtisa) otka for. air endliohlllailtha Bill was inonellint with the =es of a frestioidlittnioa. He was equally fa to fee that the madam was not described ' its dee either nugatory or opprethve. The Right Ithra. Gentlemett W cootendreaßtind the efficacy qf the NI, but had tint at 4 Maintained that ifs - ' were at • all ventims. It bad Men d the r e irstes minuted, that at the pre feet moment *as borWik eiceffity for the augmentation of dcra;m4lar 1 ^getable force. With the view of ac ing tins etbrsd, the Bill, emoting ether things, •properfed th e reda&on of.the Wilda, and this Ire Conceived melt, 'ppm. a very iMportant confident doo.'"lf a large Amiable military force bad become iseeeffirry. there was one of the ms s etheacions means for obtaining it. It had for a confiderable time been dim decided opinion of thete of the bed informed in. divider& in she country, that the prefect tweet of die Militia Ettablifinnent was equally impolidc and inexpedient. Recent circumflexes had otaireed to give additional weight to that opinion. Since the Union with Ireland, it has been found defirable that a large difpofable force fleteld be left for the invite of that part of the United Empire. and for that res. relittwtas been contended, that the fervice of the re ' • Militias fhould be reciprocal. For grave realms, it had been thilught proper at protein to ifirmt this arrannient ; but ar the fame time, if a ao l e e f o ble f o rce fe the protaßion of Ireland was on el hands admitted to be neceffary, this afforded a fining eignalaut for the gradual diminution of the Militia of this - country, audio their. room to have a fern Whore &reins would extend en every pan of theljahed Kingdom. This was the (Oise" of the bill, aid is far it bad his decided lawn, and appeared ' tel have powerful chime to the frfppert of the Hoofs Ai to the melon by whic to h the number of men to be T oad by t h e Bill Were be procured, be begged lane to mate a very few remarks. It bad been con. ended, that as the measure now flood, it would ope rats with pecitliar preffure on the land owners; and for that r eafon, a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ad. Angola) had defalbed it as highly oppreffive. He eesdefed hinielf afinniffied to hnr fuels language from the Honoorable G r entlernan under whole Ad from not lefs than • hundred thnufand men bad been raifed by ballot. Did the Right Hon. Gentleman mean to affert, that the ballorting fy nem was attended with no inconveniencies and no hard. hips r He certainly could not hold loch a language. The thing was altogether impoffible. If the queftion came to be firittly confidered, it would he difficult to !hew that there was even juftice far lets humani ty, in the fyllem of hallooing. The fad is, it either operated on the lower order• as a meafure of com pulfory fervice. or on thole of better circumflexes, as a tax for the commutation of their Cervices— Whether it operated in the one way or the either, it was import - Ode to deny that it was accompanied with bat (holds and fevetity. It had been argued, that though the Airily 44 Referee 7t the was f of in it s s preffure it was only a seamy, inllead wh the prefent Ad meant to be. a permanent meafure. It was not very eafy to fee on what ground this af fertion was founded. If the Army of Referee Ad was carefully examined, k would be rather a hard talk to thew that it was not in all points of view as much of a permanent nature as that now before the Wore. There was not a (Ingle chute in the Referve Ad from which its temporary duration could be in (erred. It was not fair, then, to employ dick fort of at guments option the smellier. it was but what candour required that it Ibould Rand on its merits impartially Rated. The prefent Bill was confeffedly more lenient than the Retiree Ad, and all argument drawn ogainfl it as a permanent meafure were pre mature and unjuftifiable. It had been affirmed that the prefent Insecure was nearly affimilated to the (trout Bill, and that this :onion had not obtained - one-tenth part of the number of men which it was defigned to procure. He was really at a lois to knew, what the &ounce's were which could warrant of affection to confidently brought before the Hatifee••• The docanneinerrefeeaing the number of men pro• cured for the army were not prepared with Officio* accuracy. With regard to the number procured f or the navy, however, this was not the cafe. He coast Rite confidently that of the fix thoufand which were required, nearly five thonfand were -altually levied and diftributed among n umbers o f his, hiejedy's (hips. But the prefent meafure differs in one molt important refpea from the (tante Bill. In that cafe the bounties were unlimited, and in many inliances they were enormoutly high. The whole was done by the parities without the interference of the Legilla. cure at all. In the prefent cafe the bounties were to be pofitively reßrieed. It was infinuated that the men procured by this Bill mitt be in charaCter fimilar to chafe obtained by the sou Bill, who had been defcribed as the (cum of focuty, as a let of in. dividuids who carried with them difeafe and difaffec don whenever they approached. On this point he had to fay. that if improper perfons were then intro• doted into the Army , and Navy, it was not becaufe they were drawn from the (cunt of fociety. It was becaufe. in many 'ensues, the bounties were fo drankoss that perfons even above the lower orders of life ware induced to enter the Army or Navy who atherwife would never hate thought of entering in either. Such an inconvenience was now to be com pletely removed. 'and the only oh ea which was in view was to prevent all the claki and competition which high bounties bad in all the branches of the (trek,. If teen plats the* not be fo cf !Went as the fyllem by ballot; Rill the regular army wield have a better oppnemnity of recruiting, di. waked of all rivalry and competition. But a good dal lad been laid relative to the expediency of cel la*/ for a limited term of lattice. If the Right rabic Gentleman. however. who fonkilait Wif iosafounded Se his Opinion, that the Bill would bri l aiessethei inefficient, then the recruiting for the rt. Om way would not be at all affefied. It had bees, adeitted that there was a deficiency of 9000 men hit die Army of Referee, and the late Minifters had sonfeired. that to attempt to fupply_this deficiency erase vale attempt. The Bill probffed to make this and it was &fay but fair that the esperi meat be tried. But it &ems that a large body ;el IIItICWITIC to be ratfad• fur general fervice. He issalefed be did not Ike whit hope of this could be !entertained, when it was found that the inducement 'of high bounties and limited fervice did not allure men to 'Mill, a hope cannot he entertained of efferaing thisobjaa without thefe inducements, and under the point,* **React of reduced bounty. The great drawback to the recruiting formerly was that thole who had, a defies to go into the army kept back in the hope that a kin higher bounty might prefent it- Pelf. Bet by the meafure now before the Houfe this expeffiation would be removed. A permanent fyftem wield be looked up to. and recruiting would' *en have a chance of fair and full operation. The aka of the meafure would, in the firft inftance, be , to tare a force only for a limited fervice: but the, cloak= of what took plice in the comic of g few months, was (efficient to give us the heft hopes of Its effeas. In there few months no fewer than thirty ,thnufand troops had volunteered for general ferries, and if this was the cafe, under very unfavourable circumflances, what might not be expelled under thofe of the mat encouraging nature, and when the slumber of the Referee would be increafed from forty to nay or feventy durifand t On the lofal rectuit ihg. which the Bill goes to encourage, he waled to make a tingle obfervatioic—the. effect of this fyf. tem he needed not to de(cribe. It mull be obvious to every one who refleaed for a moment on the rub . jolt. During the exiftence of the ballot, if a fitbiti tote was to be procured, thole wanting him were not confined to their own diflrift. They might go into the molt populous it, runt to in the king dom, from which afore the r.cru'ts for the regular army could be tape/fed. Br the privitinas ut the Bill, however, this e VII eir4• remedied, and the field was left clear int the recruiting of the 'ecular army. On 'the whole the Right H noarable Gentleman was fully convinced of the expechenes of the Bill, and fat down by giving it hi. decioed foppart. Mr. YOREE explained.. Mr. BASTARD maintained, that the Bill was of at unconflitotional and datigeinto. nature. L a r g e Rending armies, particidaily in time of trace, were abhorrent to the princivle. of our C•ntlitution ; and as the Bill w ent in lay the foondation of a permanent army, at the expellee of the Militia fyttem, he felt it his duty to oppofe it. Notwitlittanding that laxity' in thofe principles of attachment to iierdom which now prevailed. he thould ever refill any 'rya; ti re ohi h had the effed at withdrawing a great mat, of the 4 0. potation from their old foetal feelings, habits, and ties: and to prepare them to affill in any attempts to violate our liberties, however flagrant. The Woythy Member illtillrated this idea Ilrnngly ; and conceiving that the Biil had ultimately this tendency, fat down by declaring he Ihoitld vote againtt it. In the courfe of his fpeech he alto made Gime very judicious re marks on the vexatious nature of the exectitirm of the Bill. He alto introduced tome revere remarks on the (range compnfition of the prefent Miniary. The greater part of them whom the Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of his Majetty's counfels had pronounced quite incapable and inefficient, had now, by tome extraordinary change, become quite lively,' vigorous, and energetic. This reminded him of a certain French animal, which being deprived of a little blood, in the room of which the blond of ants• ther animal was introduced, it indent!) , partook of all its properties and qualities. Mr. BANKES fit that, loch a country as this, there was no plan which could be fuggetted for its defence, that cools, be entirely free twin objettion. It was improper to entertain very linguine espeeta lions, either of this Bell, or any other. in its ratting a (nice rapidly. In every free government, it was neetliary to call the attention of the petple to the exigency of the tittles, in order to make :Item judge of the preffore of the demand ; for there were many things to which they would fubmit. by doing to, and no other wife. The fine pr tpofed in the prefent All was faitly and moderately fupplied. and would be a flimuln, true e ttivitvin utdrr to find the men required. 1 I.eQuita Bill, which paired in 1797, had been much rehired in, but he taw no rciernhlaucc be twist the toe and tile other. On the whole, he ap proved rf the 1,: an now fuggened. Mr. AT RICH 1* went into a variety of objtetious to the scal, the principal of which were, du ties : w df 4 c l e a xtrze u ly re i t tn o p f r d o c per h a ip aik er ipt - fi i d im e theo archreas cacers. .He was forty to lad that it was p ro-, poled authorize then to go into the adjoining pa - rakes and diaries. Thofe men lima not, in 'llia what they derived d fro *i m th tl i i l e nyaethrh nature Oftteir Offie other t.all The accumulation of pettalties elk( which the precast -Bill. if tarried into law, would inflift, in cafe of De gligence or deiCiency on the part of the pariihts, in furnithing the (pole with which they were chargeable. was, in his mind, a decilive objeeion to the Bill, and therefore he would vote again l it. Mr. ELLISON leased to avoid all invidious com panions between the melon Adminilltation and the laft, but really he could not bring his mind to approve of the crude (yam that was now offered to them, and which, in his judgment. poffeffed no fuperimity over the plans that had beta (obtained to the Hooks except that the practice of ballot was excluded He could not confider it in any otherlight than that ' of creating* force always regarded as conaitutiom ally dangerous, he meant a Minding army, 4na W means the molt cootemptible, the agency of 'patillt-: en. It went alfo tO the extraordinary determi- Nation of reifing a fund for the recruiting of that army, without the concurrence of Parliament. He jellified the intentions of the late AdMiniaration with refpee to fufpeo.ding the Aft for mans the Army of Refervt. Colonel MITFORD oppora the Bill os wading do make further addition to that force of which their macaws had always entertained a coniliastionaljea loufy, he meant a anodic; army. He Fitly caw fielded in all the objeeiom urged agaiolL the cmatina faith a force by'the Hon. Member on the other fide 'of the Houk (Colonel Ballard). He never could be illeciogpe to reconcile his mind to thatfpecies of force, ;Mien he Law the aces produced by it. France.. 'where there are thirty'millions of people, aauated by a fpirit of the molt ardent liberty, was held in a, f lir the moil difgtaceful bondage by two Of three ham deed thoufand foldiers. Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY, helm h. vistMod la the difcuffian of the queftion which was regularly before the Houfe, wilted to make fome Obfervetions • eta the argument which was principally. urged by itte (three gentlemen who loft (poke igaiaittht Bill, and that was, that by' the operation of it irorf great .hurth r en would be thrown on the parochial *Scow Hc could not concur in that objellion, for any ON who looked- into our municipal regulatioas, band perceive that for the hilt eo or do years, that 'de= .lcription of panto have always been charged Wide ! the duty of raifing men. Where was the then ? If any gentleman read the prefent Bill, let would find that there was no coenpullion on the. parilh officers to procure malt they were ((Nat se no fine in cafe of not fucceediog, and he could not fee why, at a calls when all of us were hyrloty bound to contribute our molt Ilrencons exertions towordsi the protection of the State, that whatever they in furtherance of that great obje@lbuold ba zetittitott by the preterit. Bill to perform, could be confideritd as either onerous or oppreffive. The other argumet* which had been advanced by thole Hon. Gentlemee, -that it was raifing men nor by parliamentary taxation. was, in his mind. quite as untenable as the one he had , adverted to, and he hoped confuted. To be convinced of that he would only call on any *gentleman who doubted it, to read the Bill, and he would there Grill that the only taxation the parilbes would be fubje* to was • moderate fine, in cafe the recrulls they were charged with were not procured. Whatever differ• enter of opinion might have fubfified between the various parties in that Houle, there was one thing in which they were agreed, that it was neceffary to create a great difplifable force. For if any thing could put an end to the war in which we were odor turtately engaged, if any thing could convince the (alive and daring enemy with whom we had to contend, that we are not with impunity to be On uhly attacked, it would be the circundiance of having a great difporable force at our command. Oec.ilions may, and, he truaed, would wife. when it would be necelfary fir us to employ it ; we &odd, therefore, be prompt and decifive, and pre pare (moieties for that poffible emergency. Wight lion. Gentleman (Mr. Mike). objefted to the rucalitre, becalife he confidered it as compul fory. He geared the Right Hon. Gentleman had n t read the Bill. and that he had taken his opinion ol it froin what he heard thrown out on a former n ght ; for in the Bill before them there was not a tingle claufe that could be confidered as cornpulfive in its operation. Another Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Addington), had fuggelted the propriety of deferring the immure to the next Seffion i but in that he believed he could fcarcely find a perf on to agree with him, at Waft among thole who ufually fat at the other fide of the Houfe. The Right Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Yorke), who is a friend, he might alipoa fay by birth, to the Militia Syllem. was of ()Oaks that the meafure would be inefficient, and for this reafoit, that he thought the country had been ex haulted by the recruiting fervice, Once so,ooo men bad entitled into the Army of Referee. He could not coincide in that opinion, and he was Pure the Right lion. Gentleman, when he made it, did not confider that there was an annual fupply of recruits to be obtained in this country, chiefly from the large manufaauring towns, and from young men who were jai out of the, apprenticellsips. He gave his hearty concurrence to the Bill, as dearoying altoge ther the fyftem of ballot. He would not longer trefpafs on their attention, as no doubt there were many Gentlemen anxious to deliver their opinions no the plan, a plan, which in its relent conflict'. tional form, had his hearty fupport, and to which molt probably'he would not have objeaed as origi nally propofed, if the irceffity of our fitnation had unfortunately required it. Mr. FULLER Law the Bill in a very objeftionable point of view. In hi; mind it would lead to an ac cumulation of taxes, the immenfity of which would at lergth amount nearly to the annihilation of all property. A Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Yorke) had offered time objettioas to it, which had great weight with him. He never willed to turn that Right lion. Gentleman out he always admired hit frank and manly charafter, and he would have been happy to have teen him cootinited in that elation he to worthily tilled. There was alto another Hon. Gentleman (Mr.Fos) on dr: bench below him, whole fpiendid and various talent.. and whole emotive in formats= would have given a lizength to Adnaini- t Aratioa, that all tree, friends to their country mon have been anxious for. He Caw withefurprde amt regret that Gentleman did not ente r i n to his hla*.ef y's councils ; with fur prize , he mull fay , for be knew the magnanimity and forgiving difpofition . f the Sovereign. ( Akre cr., of Order.) Ot his at,. ' vereign he would fay—[ldere the Speaker rote, and infanta the Hon.'Gentleman, that he was proceed ing alainft the orders of the Houfe.) Well , then , ford Mi. Fuller, fince t am allowed to (peak. I am foray dire has not been a coalition. (di /owl laugh.) Well, then, I believe that is the general fenfe ..f the country. ' As to the Bill before them, he would n t glie It .any oppnfition in the prefent Rage, but he. would referve lumfelf for the third reading. when .f he did not find it to meet the approbation of his con. fiituents, he would vote egainft it. Mr. DENT could perceive that the adherents oftl'e tale AdMinifitetion, as well as their principals who corepaid it, could not be induced to approve of any Bill fat the national defence except that which they bad brought in. For their feccers and ability in that retort, lit would only refer.to the Voleuteer Bill and 'the lis come Aft. The former they were never able, with.all their means and perfeverenoe, to pufh through both Houfes of Parliament, and the tncome Tax was to unintelligible that no Colleakon, even to this day, Lad been made under it. Of the Gentleman who bpd fpoken in fuoh vaunting language of his lolling him c o afeiantious motives, he would ark, was the Member for Lincoln the only independent man in that Houle t was he the only Member who did not emit a place ?—(7l. Has. Afromber war called to order 4do &sista.) ' Mr. ELLISON rote to es pl,ain;and to declare that M what be had Paid he did not mean intim)* any im plication on the motives or coadua of any Honoura ble Member of that Hoeft. Mr. DENT profeffed himfelf fatisfied with the declaration of the Hon. Gentleman, and 'ditclaiming a 'intention of meaning any thing perfnnal to him, conceived he bad a right to advert to what bad been 'thrown out in Debate. The objea of the Bill was loprovide for the de fi ciency produced in our military filetn. by the forayer .4.dminittration, a. deficiency .'cli had been often alluded to, and centered by the Gebtlenten on the. Other fide of the Houfirs and 'Mich, he had : no doubt, they would have occa fi on tet eatfnrimatn. An Hon. MeMber oppoflte to hint .4id clifllaiWee47 o f_tbe Bill for a took extraordinary reitton tentel4, that the prefent Adminifirattion was `not fo rmed on a breed hint; would any Gentleman Rate that to'be the faul t of the Right Honourable Wilber:o4 r- to :00 the bench him He would 'vote in fupport Of the Bill being read a fe..„. coed dab, end,. it trifled, that through the drift ance of the Hon. Gentlijsan at the other fide of the' Houg (wl47l:l 4 P)(siiield be rendered perk& ; het diettrelmped.sk irtoltiLbe &feted to go into a Committee, for the Enipcie.it receiving correaiotis and alteratiotera . !CVO_ ..;•' • .iNtiAItRICIOCO'PriLitSONB could diteover but onoopihion in the Houle as to thr necellity of in metier our force, and the only.difference that exifii ed is isettiteent was ail to the manner in which that tone Smola be railed. Although he confidered the modepropteed by this Bill as creating a difpofable force is inferior to others that had been foggeiled. he was, notwithrianding,psreparedto fupport it. It was 'formerly prepaid to ride men for rank, a mode to which he taw no important objettions, fubjea as it would be to the excellent regulation introduced by the Commander in Chief, and yet no Conner was it men tioned, duet a clamour was intluntly railed again& it, and he beard nothing from all quarters but the cry of “ would yoit ruin the army ?" When the propotal was trade to raife men by ballot, the outcry was, if prattle, much greater. When it is prorfed to re cruit in the regular Army, then it is objected that the country is exhaulled, and that there can'he no hopes of drawing any confiderable force from that &twee. So that there was not a poffible mode of recruiting. men, to which Tome extraordinary, and as (bolt who urged 'them conceived, -infurmountable objeo tinns were not offered. All confeffed that it was ne eeffary to mile a great force t and yet every mode that was propoled for accomplifhing it, was objetted to. How long. would he elk, was the country to go on this way ? A Right Hon. Gentleman oppofite to him (Mr. Windham) had, in a former debate, fug gelled the propriety of enlifting men for a limited term, and that was immediately objeted to by hie Right Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Yorke). What was demanded by the fupporters of the prefent Bill I I Why, nothing more than to allow it to go into a Committee, and to fee whether it could not receive improvement there. There was no plan, no fyfiern that human ingenuity could devife, that may not be liable to objetnion ; and yet the potlibility of iniper feetion, was but an ill argument againft all effort of attaining to praakable utility. He thought his Right Honourable Friend's mode the belt of the two; but when there were two ways propofed of getting at a thing, if ciremultances put it out of his power is - follow one, he would take the other. He prdumed that it was is the contemplation of the Government to apply the mestere recommended by the Bill to Ireland. If that were the cafe he had no doubt of its complete faced, for he was perfuaded there was not a parith in that part of the United Kingdom which would not raife the men, rather than fubjea itfelf to the fine. He would rote for proceeding with the Bill. Mr. CHAPMAN was of opinion, that the colonial and home demand for our military force could not be carried to a greater extent then it aaually was. He wifhed that Government had fallen upon torn, mode of leffening that dernar.d. He thought that it would be advileable on many grounds that our poCellions in both the Indies lhould be gartifoned and defended by troops drawn from the Edit Indies, by Sepoys, who were inured to the climate of thole latitudes, rho could fupport the inconveniences of them Without rifk r,t the dangers that Europeans were fobjed to, and who could, from the popish. 'inn of the countries they were drawn from, be firp plied to any number. He fully agreed in the praifes that had been bellowed upon the Militia; that might be truly denominated the conftitotional force of the country ; and, he trolled, it would always be ID. created in a commenfurate degree with what was called the regular force. Lord DE BLAQIII ERE would not follow the example of force Hon. Members who bad fpoken be fore him, and go into the details of the ineafuic , pi 0- poled by the prefent Dill. The Teal iiiutjtion, ice Lis : ern Iga of the 1 31 wi a' en