Star. — London, England, 1811-04-09 00:00:00

:1. ,~ : "" Militia so broken in upon as it must be by tbeisresem AI L - PARLIAMENT ARr PROCEEDINGS. Bill • but his chief objection vi as to the cfause t which t .went to convert it from a temporary into a permanent HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL s. measure. The Noble Lord took occasion.bighly to. The Betio+, in a Ctettinotee of Pro/lie g es, preeeecled.to dis- extol Mr. Wistdham's plan which had exceeded in its cuss the cl,o-.1 to tie PA.,hury Pe t•agr, in which their Lordships operation the most sanguine expectation of his friends; aceuree.l HI rear five o'elrtzk, when it was ordered to pro- I t but the present measure would totally destroy all the teed further in the discussion e, Thtirsdly nett. !benefits which that salutary plan was calculated to Tb Pet+ein Reads lilt Was read z set:odd time, and commit * d for to-morrow. ' pmduce. By making it perpetual , instead of tempo - PORTUGAL. rary, it was proceeding upon principles diametrically MariquisWELLES LEY presented a Message from ~ opposite to those which he had ever maintained re his Royal Highnes , the Prince Regent. represen tin g s p ectin g matters of that nature; and so far, therefore, the distresses in which a part of the inhabitants of lit must have his most decided negative. Portugal were plunged by the savage barb arities ex- I The Earl of WESTMORLAND observed, that ercised against them by the French army in its retreat, I if he understood the measure, the objections of his and expressing a desire that their Lordships' House j Noble Friend (Viscount Sidmouth) seemed totally would concur in enabling the Prince Regent to afford I done away at the first view of it. The Bill provided the sufferers speedy and effectual relief.—[For the I that no ballot should take place before the middle of Messagesee the proceedings of the House ofCommons. ! the year 1813 ; at the same time, it endeavoured to M.irciiiis WELLESLEY then moved, that hie fi recruit the Militia as far as possible by inlistment ; Royal Highness's Message be taken into considera- ; and in every point of view, the Bill, he thought, went tion to-morrow, and that the Lords be summoned. as far as it was necessary for its purpose. .--Ordered. The Earl of HA RDWICKE entered into an exa mination of several of. the prominent clauses of the ;Bill, and suggested a variety of modes in which it. might be amended in the Committee. The Earl of LIVERPOOL explained to the House, that the principle upon which the Bill went, I was, that the Militiaman should be placed on the same footing, except as to ballot, with the soldier in the regular army. In his opinion, the wiser course to adopt would be, in many points, just the reverse of the existing system. He adverted to certain pro visions which now are obtained in favour of the Mili ti.unan, which should preferably be in favour of the regular soldier. Adverting to some former measures which were adopted with respect to the military force of the country, the Noble Secretary observed, that the measure of the Army of Reserve instead of being be. nofieial, was mischievous in its consequences; and though he had been a party to that measure, he had himself afterwards experienced its inconveniences. As to what had been conceived of the measure with re ference to the casualties of the Army, the calculation was made at between 23 and 24,000 men ; but this calculation it should be recollected, were of a very peculiar nature, and such as would not occur in the ordinary course of war. In the measure before them, however, he would wish even to look at those cases. The last year was a peculiarly unfavourable period, from a variety of circumstances. With respect to what could be raised for foreign corps, it was calcu. kited at'about 4000 men, according to the present kale of war ; but the numbers to be provided by the' adoption of this measure would even cover that. To these remarks the Noble Earl referred to some fur ther calculations, in order to evince the beneficial ten dency of the measure. The Earl of ROgSLYN, in explanation, expressed his opinion, that the foreign and colonial corps should be left out of the question, and that the proposed measure should be confined solely to the supply of the British regular troops ; and he added some re marks in answer to the calcdlations made by Noble Lords opposite. The question was then put for going into a Com mittee on the Bill, and carried without a division • end their Lordships accordingly resolved into the same. Before the Clauses were entered upon,) Lord Viscount SIDMOUTH totik occasion to re mark, that the calculated waste of the army would be supplied by the means of the Bill, together with the modes ordinarily adopted for the recruiting of the army ; and he regretted that a Noble Friend had re tired, as the provisions of the Bill were now more re gularly under the consideration of their Lordships. , The different clauses of the Bill were then gone through without any further observation from any of the Lords present, and were afterwards reported with. out any amendment. The Earl of AYLESFORD moved that several additional witnesses, whose names were specified in the motion, be ordered to attend at the Bar, in order to Ise swotn, and afterwards to attend the Committee of their Lordships appointed to investigate the cir cumstances of the death of Thomas Culver, a debtor, who died in the Marshalsea Prison, and On whom a Coroner's Jury had been held, &c. on Wednesday next, which was ordered accordingly. The House then adjourned till to-morrow, when their Lordships stand summoned for the consideratiosi of the Prince Regent's Message respecting the pro posed Relief to the suffering Inhabitants of Portugal. t • MS MAJESTY'S HEALTII. Earl GROSVENOR wished to know from the Noble Secretary (I.iverpool) if it was intended to lay upon the table of that House any report of the state Of his Majesty's health, being a subject interesting to the feelings of the whole country. The Earl of 'LIVERPOOL answered, it was corn , • letent for any Noble Lord to move for the produc tion of the Report of her Majesty's Council to he laid on the table. The Act provided only tint it should he laid before the Privy Council as a matter Of record for them ; but still the Noble Lord might, if he thooght fit, move in humble Address to his Royal Highness, praying that the same might be laid• upon their Lordships' table. Earl GROSVENOR then said he should proceed move for the report immediately, unless there was any objection. The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought it might be more convenient to give notice to-day of a motion to that effect to-morrow:. Earl GROSVENOR accordingly gave notice, he would to-morrow move an humble Address to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, praying that he would order the Report of her Majesty's Council to be laid on the table. MILITIA INLISTMENT BILL. The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the Order of the Day for going into a Committee on this Bill.— Every Noble Lord, he observed, must be sensible how urgent and important it was to complete the ar my at the present moment; and he believed that no measure was so likely, so speedily and effectually to accomplish that desirable object as the one propos ed by the, present Bill. Many objections to which its provisions had been considered as liable, were ob. 'Slated ; and upon the whole, he trusted, .it would be found as unobjectionable as it was well possible to render a measure of that description. The Earl of ROSSLYN entered into a minute examination of the effects likely to be produced by the operation of the Bill, many of which were in his inind extremely serious and weighty. Indeed the framers of the measure themselves seemed to be aware of its inefficacy, and that it would not answer the ob ject for which it was intended. Ent he must object to it chiefly on the following grounds :—lt must tend to cut up altogether the recruiting for the general service, while it would considerably increase the ex pence of raising men, without accomplishing the ob ject it had in view. What man of sense could expect that persons would fnlist for general service for ten iznina.a, 'elite a sum so much larger was to be had "for inlisting in the militia ? The expense ot provid ing a substaute for the service in some counties had :actually amounted to about £5O, to which a further bounty would be added for inlisting into the army under the present Bill. A regard to this profit had a 'tendency radically to vitiate the mind and spirit cf a soldier, while the expense of raising the MAMe number of men would be nearly doubled to - the Country: In its operation it would betray no less an absordity than that of sending two agents to the same auction to bid against each, other. At the same time, this unwar rantable sk Reuse would be incurred to no purpose.— It would hot supply the waste of the army. For the last three Years, the.waste of each year was, on an aver Age, :about 21,000 men. The present Bill did not promise to produce more than 19,000 men.— Theri wOuld therefore be a considerable deficit, and to be made up ? Indeed, the 'rnore he ' ^ _ how isvhs it . . considered. the nature of the effects which must result ' HOUSE OF COMMONS. from a measure of this nature,- the more he must de- DISTILLERY BILL. yrEat-E.th e acroption ,of it. The Noble Earl then Mr. CHNTE presented a Petition from the owners and *cm . COMMIDed it With Mr. Windham's plan, which in his 1 piers of Land in the neighbourhood of Andover against the Dis opinion was far. preferable, and which had produced tillery Bill. Ordered to lie on the table. of Freeholders A. ho ß ld E o ß rs C o lt f O th M e BIE presented a Petition from a Meeting such favourable effects, evert for the short time it had ..: Dist Au ted upon._ .__. C ounty of Clackmannan, at which Mr. Er plane presided, against the Distillery Bill. It was received as the 9rti SIDMOUTIi thought there could be but Petition of Mr . Erskine, arid ordered to lie on the table. k O ("pinion respecting the necessity of keeping tip The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, that the House do to-morrow, go into a Committee on the Act of the 19th -the army. No man was more ready to applaud the of the King, relative to the prohibition against masters of ships 'resent application of oar military force, particularly removing their vessels out of the stream except at legal quays, so Ingpain and Portugal, where they had reaped such far as concerned Ireland. Ordered. islory, and where, he trusted their heroic conduct The second reading of the Parochial Settlement Bill was post w .ould be productive of the most beneficial results ; pored till Tuesday, May 7. Leave was given to bring in a Bill to allow a greater number Iprhe that took an interest in these great events, but of sheep to be sent from England to the Isle of Man, than is per be Tilitit anxious to see the numbers of our army kept mitte4 by um at present. ,up 4 and how could they be so effectually kept up as , The Navigable River Robbery Bill, the Privately Stealing Bill, .by the present measure ? T hose who ob j ected to it, ' 'odie English and Irish Bleaching Ground Robbery Bill, were a third time 'did not propose any other mode less objectionable , . read Mr. LUSHINGTON b E ro st u i g m h a t t u e p s the i ß l e e pr l rt eso o l f u t ti h o e ns Committee 440 so likely to answer the same end. In his opinion of Supply on the Colonial were se t was wise to render it a permanent measure ; for ho verally read and agreed to. ' stalearaire promised to recruit the army more effectu. i GRAND SOUTHERN CANAL. telly, or with such little delay. Whatever objections ! Mr. H. SUMNER moved the second reading of might be felt to it, were all borne down by the ne- ! the Grand Southern Canal Bill. cessity of the public service. He could not a g ree i Lord G. CAVENDISH felt it his duty to oppose with the Noble Earl (Rosslyn) that the waste of the a measure which was contrary to the wishes, opinions, army was so great as that stated by the Noble Earl. and interests of all the land owners concerned, and It is true, indeed, that there was a severe loss of men to set his face against the system which had lately in the North of Spain in 1783, and also a 'loss not prevailed of persons wholly unconnected with any less severe in 1809 in the Walcberen expedition.— , district, endeavouring to force upon that district their But losses to that amount were not likel y to continue. own interested plans..—(Hear, Hear, Era,.) lie He at least did not see what application of our mai. moved as an amendment, that the Bill be read a se - tary force was likely to expose It to such heavy losses. cond time that day six months. He thought it would be making very large allowance Mr. SUMNER denied that the Bill was brought forward by speculators, and said that it had the sanc andfer air: waste of our force to rate it at 19,000 men : Lion of such great names as the Duke of Norfolk and Earl's calctilation, that waste, even in the Noble would be made up by the supplies to be derived from . Lord Egremont. He maintained that the Canal the present measure. He wished there might be no' would be of eminent advantage in conveying a prin cipal part of the lading of the East and West India fair objection to it ; bet under all the cirturnstances . .outward-bound fleets, .and hoped that the Bill would ' of bur present situation he felt it t o be of urgent and . issdispensible necessity. : be suffered to go into a Committee,' in order that its merits might be fairly considered. Lord HQLLAND could not but i• — •.-t to see the i ' ' • ! t h steu t !ailj t t l ei l uic e t,,ti,f) p re sentth,,• getting., ci ic w hh E o s .le as I. weft cot el at ue4g : . Lord FOLICESTONE said that he bad some 4. serrations to submit to the House on a matter which . .I . ljspearld to him of great importance . He cousideel it as undoubodly the privilege of every Manib er ,o batt re; agues *n'of supply came before. the . House, it. stance any cement that appeared to him tube in any t i eege waya con ti with the subject. This was a very va. ble ili thou preiset a gh p t n teces l time . ta , ; w i rT er hic c t l i o le c h . a e ll l ' h t T i o l l was the +scarcity of small coin, which selves AS tras aional parts of a pound note. Every Member of dase Hods* knew the difficulty there was ra in London t and he had been informed by Kam,. that the difficelty was still greater in the couture. Flt had been informed, that at a fait there was.no past. bility of getting change for a pound rote ; and :h a t, in order to mace smail purchases, it was neresialy for three or four people to join to purchase al:at would altogether make up a pound aott. It was ias. possible that trade could go on is the country uulesa • . this calamity was remedied Thinking this to he an' evil of the greatest magnitude, he'had taken that op.. portunity to call the attention of the House, and cf Ministers cache striokrt . Mr. GEORGE ANSITTART said, that ...he accounts which he had received from the country a ere exactly similar, and letters which he 1)11 r. (air e d from the neighbourhoods of Abingdon and (Axed mentioned . the same difficulty of getting change. . steeps Ltews _ ... Mr. WHARTON stated, that it the Chief Justice ,appointed for this colony•had a...twilled ib England for two years, the delay was not by any means his fault,:but arose from a conaiderable,delay which took place after his ap pointment y before tl - w charter was perfected. The charter dig not receive 'lie great seal tills September last, and there had been, no °ppm'. 'nay for the Chief Justice to go out to Sierra Leene until a few weeks ago. Ht was now at Portsmouth, • ready to 'sail the first opportunity. After having 'thus explained what he conceived to be the must *ob jectionable part of the erant, he concluead by mowing That a sum not exceeding £14,495 10,. el Afield he granted to Ms Majesty for defraying the carmen of eke Civil Gov eirenenr of Sierra Leone. Mr, DENT wished this grant to b- postponed, and gave notice, that after the recess, I.e-ahould submit to the House a motion w:th respect niithis•colmy.— If this charter was not signed till veil Lately, why had the salary of Lord Chief Justiattibeee paid so long before ? 'Mr. WHARTON said, that the appoir.terat rf Mr. Thorpe,. as Chief Justice of Sierra Lei,ne, -asc,k place in the summer of 1808, at which time it was expected that the charter would be signed witlret delay. The delay which had t: ken place was net imputable to him, but arose principally from th.ttb.s in the mind of the Lord Chancellor as to the prolate ' ty of affixing the great seal to the charter. Mr. ABE RCROM BY conceived, that blame most attach sOmeiebere. Either this office ef Citiet Justice was necessary to the colony, or if was not. It it vas necessary, why was the colony so long left without a • resident Chief Justice ? But if the office was not he. cessary, why was a man appointed to that situation with so large a salary as afil.soo per annum ? Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it i,ecessary for him to state the reasons of his ha% ing originally sip pointed Mr. Thorpe to that situation. The object d the establishment of the colony of Sierra Leone was not only as a place of arms, but as an institution :a produce a great moral effect tin the coast of Airit Ai and to assist in the Abolition of the Slave Trade. It I was very hard to find a man of lib:ral character atid knowledge of his professi - in that would go to the tan. wholesome climate of Sierra Leor.e f,,r a salary of £l5OO. Besides the duties of ChiefJastice, he Ira to be Judge of the Admiralty Court : and there wni no other Judge of a Prize Court who had less thaw 0000 per annual. It was a situation which reqiii. red legal knowledge • and as a.lge of Prize Courts has to.determine on .h the righteof torjan na.ions, it evidently 'requires a man of legal knowledge and of delicate conduct.. It was not easy to find a person sr qualified that would accept theoitnation. Mr. Thorpe had held a judicial situation is U pper Canada, and although he was removed from that situation for par. tiCttlarreasons, yet he was conceived to be well qua lified for the situation of Chief •Jastice of Siena Leone ; ad from.his haring formerly held a judical situation, ke.had some claims upon the Government. As to the °thee itself; Parliament had coaadered it necessary; and ties delay was not imputable in ass way to the individual aPpointed. Sir JOHN COX HIPPISLEY made some gene. ral observations on the unhealthiness of the climate, which made him think it was not a place wh:ch should have been selected as a colony. Mr. PEELE said, that the salary of £l5OO a.yest was certainly given very much on account of the a bbe:lloly nature of the climate ; but as it had hapaenel without any fault of Mr. 'Thorpe, that for above two years after his appointment the charter had not re ceived the great seal, it was not possible to make any deduction from his salary, en the ground of Erw,land being a healthier country than that which lie war appointed to.. He might well lay, that he had made his arrangements according to the tniome of the aha ation. Mr. WHITBREAD said, he must express his strong anxiety that the subject should be thoroUghli sifted ; and be would not hesitate to express this er nion, even though it had been supported by an Ann abolitionist. The Hon. Gentleman on the °pools side (Mr. Peele) had made out an amusing cenver• sation between.the public.and Mr:Thorpe, and spokes of the dignity of character necessary for a Judge d Sierra Leone. But was that House to be gravely tell of the splendour of appearance necessary for suet . ' a si. tuation ? A Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had talked of the climate meeting those who werslto visit the settlz• client ; but Mr. Thorpe had no intention of meting the climate.. It was said, that there was a difficull in finding a person fit for the situation, ar.d that Go vernment were forced to bring Mr. Thorpe trom Ca. nada ; but the whole niriiii - bod the look of a job. — Why was not the remuneration to wait for the scr. vice ? Why was the salary to run on from the yen moment of the appointment ? This• all sa,vcwred ef au arraogement for tbeexclusirebenefit'of Mr.Tharr.e. But if judicial splendour was the sole °eject of the large salary which the Chief Justice of Serra Leone was to have, why were the Judges of the other c •i:. nies thrown so much behind ? When the Judges D the West Indies had scldcm zners than 4500 a'r'g' SirSHARLES BURRELL contended thatltinny adv,antabs would result from the formation of this Canal. There were many valuable stone quarries along she projected line; there' were large tracks of waste lands, which would be bene fi ted vand•the junc tions of the River Ouse Canal would also be attended with material advantage. Besides, the quick con veyance of naval stores to Portsmouth would be ef fected by it. On all these grounds he would support the Bill. Mr. CALCRAFT did not agree in opinion with the Hon. Baronet, tit any of those advantages would result from the proposed Canal, the chief part of which, according to his statement, would affect the Sussex part of the line, for which a Bill should be brought in next year, as they were obliged to vary the notices; so that the only part which could proceed if this Bill was carried through, would be the offensive part, namely, that•part which was to run through the county of Kent. It was farcical to talk of the com munication of Northfleet, and Woolw.ch, and Cha tham with Portsmouth, by means of this Cabal ; for a Canal from Croydon would answer all those pur poses without cutting up 1400 acres of land. The fact was, that not one of the great landed proprietors in Kent were favourable to the measure ; and if the County Members were not absent from indisposition, there was no doubt of their opposing it in their places. Neither were any of the principal towns of Sussex likely to be benefited by it, as it was to run parallel to the sea. The great objection was, that there was no landholder in favour of it—and though the Duke of Norfolk and Lord Egremont had compromised with the projectors of this Canal, they had been originally adverse to it, and their names were only made use of now to give a colour to the business, and to assist in cramming it down the throats of those who were ad verse to it. He hoped, therefore, that the House would set its face against the system of which this was a part. Sir CHARLES BURRELL explained. • Mr. HURST opposed the Bill, and said that he did not believe that there were two landholders in the county of Kent favourable to it. He knew no recom: pence which could be made for the injuries which would be done to extensive and beautiful plantations which this Canal would destroy. There were other objections arising from the variety of projectors, and neglect of the forms of the House, which induced him to vote for the Amendment. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the Amendment 100—.‘gainst it 17—Majority 83. The Bill was consequently lost. While strangers ssr . ere excluded, we understand that the further consideration of the Distillery Bill was posponed until to-morrow. MESSAGE FROM THE REGENT. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER appeared at the bar with a message from his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, which was read by the Speaker as follows : " GEORGE, P. R. St The Prince Regent in the name and on behalf of his Majes ty, baring taken into his serious consideration the accounts he has received of tbk severe distresses to which the inhabitantsof a part of the kingdom of Portugal have been .exposed in their per sons and property, in consequence of the invasion of that cowry, and especially from the wanton and garage barbarity exercised by the French armies, in their recent retreat, which cannot fail to affect the hearts of all persons who have any sense of religion or humanity, desires to be enabled by the House of Commons to af ford the suffering subjects of hia Majesty's good and faithful all% s uch speedy and effectual relief as may be suitable to this interes ting and affecting occasion." On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, his Royal Highness the Prince Re nent's Message was ordered to be referred to the Ccmmittee of Supply. HIS MAJESTY'S HEALTH. Mr. WHITBREAD observing, that, as in pur suance of the Act of Parliament to that purpose, her Majesty's Council had recently communicated to the President of his Majesty's Privy Council the result of their examination into the present state of his Majes ty's health, wished to know whether it was the inten tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman to lay that result on the table of the House. The CHANCELLOR of 'the EXCHEQUER, said that he should have no objection to the produc-. tion of the paper in question. Ur. WHITBREAD, upon this, moved, " That an humblE Addiess be presented to his Royal High ness the Prince Regent, praying, that be would be graciously pleased to direct that there be laid before the House Copies of all' communications made by her Majesty's Council, to the President of his Majesty's Privy Council, respecting the state of his Majes ty's health." The CHANCE LLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not expose himself or the House to the mis construction that might arise from his opposing the motion, on the ground that the usual Parliamentary notice had not been given respecting it. He could not, however, help thinking, although he had no ob. jection whatever to the motion itself, that it would have been much better had the Honourable Gentle ' man confined himself to a notice, as the production of the paper on one day or on the other could not be veil material. Mr. WHITBREAD remarked, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman recollected what passed in the House on a recent occasion,.when the regulations' were made for the new arrangements of' business, he would remember, that he (Mr. Whitbread) and other Members, declared, they should not thenceforth think themselves bound to give notice of a motbn. He felt himself peculiarly justified in asserting the right of a Member of Parliament to do so on an occasion when no inconvenience could result, as the motion was not objected to. Moreover he took the opportunity of explicitly stating, that he should hold himself per fectly at liberty to make any motion on any subject and on any day that he might think proper, without any previous notice whatever. The motion was then agreed to. SUPPLY. Mr. WHARTON moved the Order of the Day, for the House resolving itself into %Committee of Supply. The SPEAKER then proceeded to put the ques tion, when Mr. WHITBREAD said, that he wished to in- quire of the Right Honourable Gentleman (before `the Speaker left the Chair) what was the amount of the sum intended to be moved for, as a relief to the , Portuguese sufferers? ii The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that it would amount to te-100.000. I. I "4/ I