Star. — London, England, 1811-02-23 00:00:00

• , •• i .4 , pet i t i on e ms o sesrad its tie Oa the tOble until the sewed Slight het to be • deriteciecis An ireiartei t The history the eetiressiong et those feelingi ind opinions whteit r .a2ing of the 8,14 when the I'ctitismers are td be heard by cl the present motion was not *enerall* lr.nown. In the Irish eneetiolies, coininiinly with then , fellovenseb- Coterie. consequence ,s. of Mr. Hay'S letter to the Catholics of jests, were rtuitrally and politically entitled to declare mr. on.itHAmi the Inspector of Convicts, preseht.4 the onvening their delegates, Kr. Secretary : to thet HOUSee of that llt.partetent, which Were ordered to lie on the Ireland. c Asseusits Pole's counteracting letter was actotclingly issued, . Mr. PA ft e/F,1.1. steed ' that until coninlete hilt - it-- Table. Mr. 1.).•.•:.•tc and Mr. HAS:, from the Bask. presented t!).: e u sce the first circular letter was violetionare of the re . ation should he laid before the Houti of the res. Val:i0114 a:crtints recently cr dered by the Hove relative to Bee, known law of Ireland, which designated the assent• sons which iitsluced the Irish Government to put the lion and 13a:dt Notes. which were ordered to he printed. Vine of any description of persons to propose the r 6 Convention Act in Force, he shoitid a'astain from giv •eio r epu tation ;Ott went throuvil a Committee, the Report or • , . which wall ttret•lcti to Ito received on Monday. peal of es•ablished laws to be guilty of a high misde- bee his decisive opinion upon the subject ; but he Mr . I.OSINGON brought up the It tport of the Scotch meanour. Now, was not the whole of the proceeding thought it his duty to state some circumstances con- Crseitors Bill, which was u i :reed to, and the bin was ordered to in question such an illegal kind of act ? Joining Co- fleeted with the passing of that Act, which might af be r.ad a thi...l time cn hlomlay. 7..1r. ROSE hrought in a Bill to amend the 13th and '2'2d of the gether to elect members from different counties, the ford some ettplanation of its object. Before doing so, K i n , r ,pee:ing. the vragcs of persons employed In the Silk Ma. managers of this proceeding must have known, that , however, he must, in the most positive manner, deny nufzctore. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second substantially and essentially, they were defeating the the assertion of the Right Honoursble Gentleman.— design on liini:ay. design of the Non-Convention Act. It might not, diet the Cethelies of Ireland enjoyed complete tole -IMr. Goi.3O.!RNT presented a return of the Male and Female erhaps, have been expedient, notwithstanding, to ration. It was notorious to every person in the king- COr.VIC:3 Ultder serne::ze of ti a:op:miion. Ordered to lie on the P enfore the rigour of the law--(Hear, hear, hear . 9 ' dom, that they were deprived of Many of tile mot Tar ! e. Sir JOHN NENATORT gave Notice, That on Tuesday he This might not be expedient, indeed, but the legality ' valuable civil rights possessed by the rest of his Ma. vi.:;:id move far Papers relat.vc to certain Acts passed hi the last of the restriction was clear. Yet, admitting it as a jesty's subjects. In the year 1793, a Committee of Bei , ion of Pathan-wilt, respecting the Customs and Excise of question of expediency, still he would say, it was a : the Irish House of Lord was appointed to enquire Ireland, case in which Government was compelled to act._ into the causes of forsdsords and sfisturhences Even the very p .pers moved for, would not autho- I which at that time prevailed in many parts of Ire rise the House to preceed on the subject ; so that, on land. 'Phat was accerdingly done, and after the I thisscore, he should feel bound to negative the motion. I most min progress of the insurrection, the ute examination of possums who were well Surprise was expressed at Gove rn ment not having ! acquainted with the y taken up this business till six weeks after the letters of , reported they were occasioned entirely b y poor and Mr. Hay appeared. He was tot sure that Govern- i ignorant labouring men, who denominated them ment had earlier intelligence of the letter, or that it ' selves the 4. Defenders." In 1;98, disturbances again I WAS issued at the time of its date. However this, broke out in Beltast, occasioned by the industrious i and other points, might turn out, still ke should most circulation of seditious publications, reviling the laws I lament, that the tune and temper with which topics of the land, and extollieg the French nation end connected with Ireland were taken up, upon almost French prnnciples. A number of arms, and large • all occasions, could not but lead to. consequences quantities of gunpowder were towed in the possessive m l injurious to both countries. ' of the disaffected. end there was no doubt but their! Mr. GRATTAN deprecated the situation in which ! object was to overturn the established Government. I the two countries, England and Ireland, had been toe . A short time afterwards a report was laid before the long placed. Ireland could not exist without the Parliament, stating an intention of the United Irish-I friendly support of England, nor could England be men to establish a National Convention, and that a ; safe without the same alliance with Ireland; hence Committee had been established , to correspond with i the Imperial Parliament, considering her peculiarities, political societies abroad, in England and in Scotland. as a speiees of minor, especially with reference to the —The Report concluded with stating, that certain 1 Catholics,whowerethenstillunrepresented, wouldnur- persons had assumed the functions of Government ture and defend her. If, therefore , they cou l d not by levying taxes and receiving contributions, con-I render all desirable assistance to Ireland, they (Par- teary to law, and dangerous to the public safety.— liament) should at least take care that no Minister Upon that Report the Convention Act was founded. should vex their minds, and degrade their remaining From those circumstances it was clear that its object i liberties. It was highly necessary that, in this state was to meet the conspiracy which was then forming i of things, communication should be kept open be. to subvert the Gwernmere, establish a Republic, and tween Parliament and the Representatives of the separate Ireland from this country.—Now the ques- j Catholic,; he, therefore, disapproved of the Conven- tien Was; whether that law, passed for a specific pur tion Act. It was a bad law, made in bad times ; and Pc/se, seould now be put in force against the ;thole ought to he liberally construed, in order to enable the body of Irish . Catholics, to prevent their submitting Irish Catholics to maintain a substantial cernmunice- their grievances to Parliament ?—(Hear, hear) —The tion, not a shadowy one, with the people of Ireland. proposed meeting might be illegal, or it minlit not ; (Hear, Hear.) —Since the Union, this national corn- lie should not then give an opinion, but he dial not munication was rendered still more difficult. We suppose that it came within the spirit or letter of that wanted the general sense of the Catholics ; if we particular law. What was the conduct of the Cahn asked for this, we must ask it from the general body tics of late ? Nothing more than it had been in the of that description of people—not from the passions years 1793, 1805 and 8, when Committees were termed and interests of men—yet this was only to be obtained to promote their interest and assert their claims. from tile general body, properly assembled. Let Some of the most respectable Noblemen in Ireland this communication then remain, he would not say were Members, and in 1793 they presented an Ad• unmodified, but unembarrassed, since on this species dress to his Majesty, praying for redress, when the Go of communication the whole integrity of polity de- vernment of that time, so far from thinking them a pended. If, indeed, there existed a plan for assem- dangerous class of subjects, actually granted them a bling a National Convention, under the name of Ca- number of privileges. The Catholics, in short, fre thulic Delegates, and Ministers were a pprised of th e (silently formed Committees to promote the object fact, then, he would say, they were bound to pre ven t which they now had in view, but never, till they pre- it. But in this last extremity the question was not ' sent, met with any interruption from Lord Hardwick?. whether the law should be put in force ; for, still, Lord Westmorland, the Duke of Bedhird, or Duke of it might have been executed with mildness, so as to Richmond, who had been successively Lords Lieute-; leave nothing behind! Knowing that Mr. Pole's mots of' Ireland. Parliament itself even dictated the! letter went upon the mere report of an intention to mode of petitioning which the Catholics now pursued, resist the Convention Act, he, instead of that letter, because on their presenting a petition in 179'2, it was would' have preferred an admonition, and parental rejected on its coming from only what was then ter address. Ministers had, however, assumed the in- nsed an obscure faction. In 1805, a Right Honour- I tention of an inimical and hostile proceeding ; and, able Gentleman said a petition then before the House therefore, lie, for one, condemned that part of Mr. could not be considered to come from the Catholics Pole's letter which pronounced the Catholic Meet- of Ireland, as he observed, that not an individual out ing to be illegal. Even the superior good manners of nineteen counties had signed it. What course then of Ministers should have dictated better language.— was left the Catholics to pursue, to obviate those t.b. The' system of Delegates had been acted upon jections, but to adopt some mode to chew that eman- • during the years 1799, 1806, and 1809, who had ciliation was demanded by the whole body ? Could in those years appointed a Committee of Managers; it be objected to them, that they were engaged in ex yet these proceedings were permitted. Delegations citing tumult, or disturbing the Government ? The of this kind were necessary, were also a uthorised ; Right Hon. Gentleman could not say they occasion else, why had not the House objected to all the ed or countenanced the late disturbances ; on the Catholic Petitions, proceeding from Delegation, contrary, the Solicitor General acknowledged, upon which he had at various times brought in ? Did the the trial of some prisoners, that they were contiaed House mean to attack and refuse them now, manu- entirely to the lower order, and who had no political factured by the same instruments, and prosecuted or religions object in view. He might confidently by the same means? (Hear.) Amongst these was say, that for many years the Catholics had shewn as a Mr. Macdonald, one of the best men in Ireland ; , much loyalty as any other class of subjects, al was he now to be liable to imprisonment ? He though no privilege whatever was conferred upon knew many men there of the same mould, some of them, in consequence eef the Act of Union, notwith them rising at the Bar, whom he gloried to see— standing the promises held out to them, on condition faithful, and honourable, and affectionate,--end, of their giving their support to that measure (Hear, knowing such persons, he thought that mind should hear.) Every petition which had been since presen not be suffered to evaporate, or, what was still worse, ted by them was rejected. Seeing, therefore, a mi. to retire to dens and caves, there to brood, in gloomy i meroue and deserving class of people repeatedly dis thought, plans of revenge and woe ! Perceiving fire `appointed and exasperated, he appealed to the House and mettle amongst the Catholics et Ireland, lie I whether they were not deser vin g of far better treat wished most to embody it into the political serv i c e of I ment, than being mode subject to the Convention Act? the Empire.—(Hear.)—But the present measure was I (Cries of Hear, hear.) Was it not doing them the absolutely retrospective, and not less so than prosper- 1 greatest possible injustice ? He trusted the House tive. It went toaftectthe past, as wellas the future; and I would consider it so, and remove the grievance, unless since such was the else, while they were about to pu- I very strong reasoas could be adduced to justify their nish Lord Fingal, who was still Chairman to the Ca- I continuance. tholic Committee, they ought also to punish Lord General LOFTUS gave the utmost credit to the Grenville for having corresponded with him in that I Honourable Gentleman for being actch li vated by the bes e t capacity.—(Laughe !)—Parliament ought, in truth, • motives in delivering the speehie did, but h instantly to protect Ireland in the usual and legal I was afraid that many puts of it were calculated mere mode of petitioning. There was nothing like coin- i to mislead than to infortn the House. He could not mon sense, feeling put out of the question, in c on I admit that the lower clesses of the Irish were in so cusing the Catholics of that country : indeed, he n. ; bad a situation as had been represented. He conten sidered it to he one of the first ditties of the House to ded, that they were exactly in the same situation as address the Regent to countermand the measures . the lower classes in this country. The only advantage which seemed meditated against them. He was aware they could gain, were their demands fully conceded, of the ailedeed impetuosity of Irish people, even in • would be to make Catholic gentlemen eligible to fill petitioning the Legislature ; but passionate expres- from SO to4ooffices. But would that relieve the people? eions, excerpts of patience, were not to preclude the No. If it was,tded to improve easyitu of the people, by any law, from tittering their c omplaints.— poorer class there was but one mettles' of do (Hear!)—Goeernment had, in the present crisis of ing it—let Gentle men lower their rents, for high things, better have supposed than asserted a Conven- rents was the reidtrievance they endured, and not any tion. We are now contending against the evil of dis- disqualification on account of their religion, as he qualifying our fellow-citizens, at disabling ability, of knew that the great majority of Irish Catholics knew degrading heroism. We might still labour to prevent no more of emancipation than they knew of his being the meeting of the Catholic Delegates, but the remee then speaking. Would any Gentleman say that the • val of disqualifying restrictions was the only trite po- present Lord Lieutenant bad in any respect oppressed licy. Catholics would never be satisfied with less than them ? All his acts were a contradiceon to it, and Protestants. He could perceive • the time would he therefore trusted the House would not hastily ;ea soon come, when Catholics would be seen sitting in sure the late measure of that Nobleman, until an op that House, and voting with Protestants who sat poitunity was afforded him of laying the whole par there.—(flear!)—That time must come. Nor was titulars before the House, which he hoped would he there any danger of a rebellion in Ireland, except soon, and in that expectation he should oppose the it was presently fomented by improperly restricting production at present of any additional documents. • 1 COMIIITTFF OF WAYS AND mEmis. The acciamts relative to the War Taxes, and to the surplus of the Consolidated Fund, having been ."cietred to the Committee of Ways and Means, the lionse, on the motion of Mr. WlLkaros, resolved itself into the Committee, in which the following Re. solutions acre agreed to : On the motion of Mr. WHARTON, ..That the sum of £856,757, being the surplus of the Conso lidated Fund on the itt of Januar y , 1811, be applied towards raising the supply granted to his Majesty. That a surn, being part of the produce of the War Taxes, be applied towards raising the supply granted to his Majesty. " That the suns of £1,500,000 be raised by Exchequer Bills, for the s.reice of Great Britain. " That the sum of X 10,500,000 be raised by Exchequer Bills, for the service of Crest Britain. That the usual Malt and Pension Duties, &c. be continued an,l towards raising the Supply." On the motion of Mr. FOSTER, " toe cum of ..E1,000,000 be raised by Treasury Bills in Ireland." The House having been resumed, the Report was orJered to be received to-morrow. CAINOLIC COMMITTEE. The Hon. Mr. WARD now rose.—lntroductory to the motion for Papers he was about to make, the Hon.. Gentleman called the attention of the House to the inauspicious circumstances attending the enact ment of what had been called the Convention Act. This act was (he said) passed in bad times, and ought to be limited by the necessity, provided such *kind of necessity had at all existed, which had given it birth. Hence he felt it impossible to support Mini sters, fur he could not conceive any Government at liberty to rummage over the darkest pages of the statute book, the blackness of darkness, in order to collect matter for offensive laws, and then promul gate them without any reason or right. It appeared that se far for there being any cause for the proceed. ing to which he must allude, so far from Ireland, against which this proceeding was now meu, being in a state of rebellion, or of approaching to it, the pacific demeanour of that country was erten the topic or congratulation and boast.—(Hear.) —Were the Catholic Delegates to be viewed with a suspicious eye ? They had existed, in their present form, since the year 1809, unsuspected and unmolested, nor did their present measures call for the interference of the arm of power. Considering, however, the posture of our affairs, was it not better for our Government still to have to deal with this delegation, than with the mob whom they were stated to represent ?—(Hear, liter!)—Yet by the steps adopted by the Lord Lieu-' tenant in contravention of this delegation, some thou sands of individuals might be rendered obnoxious ro imprisonment, who did not mean to infringe even the letter of the law ; nay, who were not conscious of their having at all violated it.—(Hear, hear, hear !) Ministers might possibly be in possession of some secret information, which to themselves justified the course they were pursuing towards Ireland ; but the matter to be complained of was, that such information was not before the House, while the measure indicated Ireland to be in the most perilous s'euation.—(Hear.)—lt was to be remarked, never tigess, that six months had elapsed beforc Govern ment noticed the circular letter to the Catholics ; and that the speech which the Regent had been curiously advised to make, took not the least notice of Ireland, excepting as to some deficiency in its revenue, though it must have been known, at the time of the speech, that the sister kingdom was far from being in a sa tisfactory state. The letter of Secretary Pole, it should also be remarked, was circulated just on the eve of his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales becoming Regent, as if chosen as the epoch for in juring that Illustrious Personage in the estimation of his Irish subjects, whose attachment he had here tofore possessed and eminently deserved. A Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) had been for four years leader of the Anti- Catholic party—Let the House look at the effect of his measures, however well intended, and then de cide, whether it was by Insurrection and Conven tion Bills that the Irish could be subdued ? When lie said thus much, it was not his aim to irritate the peo ple nretraecoanof ; but as silence might be constru ed into an acquiescence it the measures of Govern ment respecting it, he felt it incumbent upon him to explain his own views. All that he wished, or wished most, was far correct information on Irish affairs ; for it was material to evince on our part, at this crisis of time, some concern for Ireland. (Hear.) Above all, especially at this conjuncture, he would wish Mi nisters to abstain, not only from violence, but from the appearance of it, in their conduct towards that people ; since violent measures would only recoil with tenfold force, on those by whom they might be ad vised. It now only remained that he should move— fcr copies, or extracts, of such correspondence between the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (Duke of Richmond) and the Secretary of State for the Home Department (E irl of Liverpool), as related to the circular letter si g ned by Mr. Secretary Pol e. Mr. YORKE, although he agreed with the Hon. Gentleman who had just down, as to the anxious consideration due to the state of Ireland, and the propriety of extending every practicable indulgence ; was by no means satisfied that the not conceding of Catholic Emancipation implied any want of sympathy • towards Ireland, much less intolerance to her. The House must know, Britain know, Ireland could not hot know, that the whole of his present Majesty's leien had been conspicuous for indulgencies to his Roman Catholic subjects--(Hear.)—All h been ben done, perhaps, that cou ld be done. Catholic eman cipation, as it was called. could n ot be cv:ip eded; . . gir RbTI V MORVIOMERYiIiCit thee ens ti greitt (*Weenie between supporting the lights of the Catholics and granting them greater privileges than were possessed be any other Oars of hit Majesty's .objects. was to be regtetted that they lad no re piesetitefives in that House to asst in the discussions i't Medi they were interested ; but it was fortunate shat they haled Ii tends i:t the Hou s e, who, in poin• of ability. were not etc:lied. He would ask those G. ft tlerthee whether such a convention as the Catholos were eat: lilidling would be tolerated to Protestants in this country ? He was confident it would not. If it were whet would become of the authority of the two Henses of Parliament ? Why then could the'Citholies demand it ? The Lord Lieutenant was, in his npinion, peiiectly justified in the measure he adored to pre vela their illetral proceedings. The'r Secietary issued what might be called his warrant for a General Elec tion, and as the case admitted of n• delay, it was the duty of the Deice of It 'climond to preveot it by stole Means as the law had provided him with, for which he considered him deserving of great praise. Sir JOHN NEWI=ORT replied, that tOe Hon. Gentleman thought the case of Ireland admitted of ' no delay ; that it was of the most urgent nature, and celied for immediate suppression. how tlien • was no notice given before. the 12:h of Vet-it-nary ? A conversation had taken place in the Cony, nti, n about the. middle of January, whether they would promulgate to the nation Hay's letter or not ? It was agreed to .have it printed, and it was accordingly' published in many of the public pipers, which every person had the opportunity of seeing, and which, he • was convinced, few did not we. And was it possible that the Haase of ; , erliament was not informed of mole a preceeding; when' an Honourable Member of the Houee'cathe away from Ireland, on the urgency of the case, never doubting that before he reached - the hall die Petition would be presented ? Could the Hanourible Gentleman then say, that they were not informed of the eubject, when it was publicly known from the 12th of January? An Honourable Gentleman lied stated, that they had good informs don of the dangerous tendency of the general . Cathoe lic Convention, and yet he thinks it not necessary to produce the inhtrmatian which he states they have in their possession. The Honourable Gentleman only • :aid, that tie deemed it suffizient to say in the justifi cation of the act that they lied acted right. Ireland was a loyal and deserving country,. and ought to be long cherished in the bosom of England, before she. would num out the remembrance of her wrongs.-." And he would venture to say, that should the same way of conducting the Irish affairs be pursued, that had marked the conduct of late Ministers, the col:se t:peace would he serious. He could not help looking. forward on times, when ruin would terribly punish ; our neglect and o u r iniquity. If obsolete acts were to_ be raked up from the oblivion which they merited, to ruin that natural communion between us and the Catholics, then you may learn to hear them when they regard not your attention, and you -may offer to, help them when too late for help. He would ccre taiely admit that praise was due to the Goveramen‘ • of the Duke of Richmond ; that he had endeavoured at winning the affections of the people; but the way in which Ministers had all along acted to them, bad destroyed tlrat trust which they ought to cherish for, the delegate of their Monarch. Was it not an insult to them, and of the most afflicting kind, to behol4 that man honoured and caressed who had so recently i'cl.timed them traitors? He would wish to know whoee conduct seemed most intolerant—this askin for privileges, which men no better deserving than themselves enjoyed ; and that appointing men to high offices of trust and honour, their avowed enemies, and who had proclaimed themselves such before the honourable tribunal of their country ? And did the H hn. Gentleman say, that the Catholic Emancipa tion only tended to promote the welfare and ambition of a few im:ividuals—that it aimed alone at their wel fare, without stretching itself over the land to emanci f ate a nation?—May nut a Catholic peasant entertain tile idea, thet the son whom he nourishes and educates may rise to be Lord Chancellor of Ireland? It is an ho nest ambition, and no one can resist it?—Do not we see men in high rank lifted from obscurity. raised from among die peasentry? Have we not the son of a wool comber now otliee; and may not a peasant then hope and aim at:emu:clot)? The road to greatness is free to ail. Such conduct as had leaely marked the Councils of our country, makes Ireland our weakness, rather than our strength ; and while we persisted in it, we were sliewing a stubborn deternsinetion to .weaken ourselves fat thee. It appeared from the general de licacy with which the Catholic Convention had acted, that they looked to the country with respect and kind ness. It was deb :red by them, on his Majesty's Moms, whe;her they wimid urge the question of emancipa tion on the Regant or not ? They wished to collect their whole kilos% ledge on that important occasion, which had given use to the letter now in question.-- It would seem fleet the Irish Government had deter mine I to put in terce an obsolete Act passed under an-intolerant I+ ish Cabinet, who, having been foile,d in the Penal Laws, enforced this with greater seee- •• rity. Butt he was aware, that the Irish Cabinet never would have dime it, had they trot been overpowered by that of Britain. That ought to proceed warily, and not, by an act of rigour, sink them into de struction. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER la mented that any disputes like those he had now lis e tened to, should have taken place ; but it was a sad truth when, that any question concerning the Cacho- • lies of Ireland came to he discussed, it constantiy, et a wide sweep, brought in all the ereuments of eman epetion, accompanied with the wonted bitterness of diepiee, and remembrance of woes, which c , uld not br thought on without regret. Much did he c..ndemn that system of holding forth in argument the degraded condition of Ireland, in her Catholic claims, when their existed no prospect of bettering her condition by the debate ; that it could only tend to, hold up the rancour of thwarool views, and stimulate .and newish that natural propensity to outrageous feeling which public questions always excited. 'l.'o be told of Ire land's distress was a natural emanation from the sub ject, bat to couple it with emancipation WAS departing from the business of the House. Tlie.lion. Gentle man had forgot one thing in these statements, which was simply that the late disturbances in Ireland had no mite - pee to Catholic emancipation. He could not see how such a measure would tend to help them, maces it were to establish the Catholic religion on the ruins of the cothatryo That was Cie oniii I iarm.-...-.. ..