Star. — London, England, 1804-03-16 00:00:00

aourable Gentleman is to find an adequate remedy:ll We all know the pre eminent met its of the Right Honourable Gentlman as a Volunteer. We know I bow very much the e•uiriti y indebted to him fort 1 his exertions in that line ; but Bill, I trail, he will 11 excufe me, when I allure him that I think the land fervice quite enough ftr him, ai.hout takii:g any 1 part in the lea fervice. (A , 7 rwral laki). But the I Right.Honourable Gentleman lays, • Agree to my I motions; grant me the papers which I demand, and I (hall undertake to prove all my effertions.' I lay, no we muff, in that cafe, neceirarily have an en quiry ; and upon what grounds am I to underhand that an enquiry is admitted by the country to be pro per at this moment ? The details which mutt take place would be long and implicated, and they mull go to criminate Lord St. Vincent, or give to the Right Honourable Gentleman a hold to move for more papers. I am at a loft to conceive how the internee can, for a tingle indent, be entertained by the Houk, when no caufe, no fat, is brought for ward in rapport of it ; when every poflible energy pervades the whole branch of the public fervice over which the Noble Lord prefides I when naval (kill, vigilance, and adivity are difplayed in every quar ter. and the bell officers are employed in every direc tion, with the highea honour to themfelves, and the greateß advantages to their country. But Lord St. Vincent, we are told, has prepared, or is preparing, only twenty-three gun boats, to oppafe the enemy's attempt at invafion. This aecufation. which feems calculated to difpirit the country, comes, let me ob. &rve, rather oddly from the Right Honourable Gen. tleman. who has called loudly for every confidence which could be repofed in Government. and has de precated in the molt earneh language, every appear ance of party fpirit.• The fat, however, is, that there is a greater proportion of force, and of that pe culiar kind of naval farce adapted to meet the ene my's alinement on the coat!. to which the Right Honourable Gentleman bas alluded, than Gentlemen *epee. They will bear, not perhaps without Tome farprife, yet I have,no'doubt with real fatisfadion, that our naval firength is not only irnmenfe. but ad mirably compofed for a great variety of fervice.-- 1 The particulars of a fhort flatement, which I have the honour to fohmit to the Houfe, can be juftified by the molt authentic documents. The flips of the lice, frigates, !loops of war, bombs, and other ref rels, amount to si t ; block Ihips fupplied by the Tri nity Hoare are 9; the lighters and fmall craft fitted is the King's yards, are, according to the lab returns, .973; the thips furnifhed by the Eat! India Company. 19; and the flotilla completely equipped and ready for itemediate crevice amounts to 624. If Gentle ms* will take the trouble to recapitulate thole dif. ferent branches of fervice, they will find that they *end in the following order : Mgt of tee We, kr. . sit 10( the Trinity Houk 9 Nos the ICa l : Yards . 3,3 llytbe Cempsny :9 Mina 654 • Making all together 1536 lind yet, Sir, this force of 1536 vetch, hasbeen pre pared and completed by the unworthy Full Lord of the Admiralty. But unfortunately for the (they of the country, the Right Hon. Gentleman bras difco. "grid, that only twentrthree gun-brigs have been oantratled for. Will the Houfe agree upon the bare martian of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that Lord Bt. Vincent is to blame, and requires a great deal of booking after ? or rather, will they not agree, that the opinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman has lets weight with the country than that of the Earl of St. Vincent ? With refpea to the building of Blips by contuse, which the Right Hon. Gentleman In are away recommends, be lays , it is nearly impoffible to build Teals in the King's Yards in time of war ; but although this affertion may be admitted to a certain extent, it will not, I trull, be denied, that Blips may he completed and repaired there. How. over we confider the queßion, it is evident, that we have no cafe made out by the Right Hon. Gentle. man, and that we require fume proof befides his bare affertion. I have alfo to obferve, that the mer chants' yards have been tried, and have been found not altogether In well hatted to the building of (hips as force perfons feem to think. Are contrators to fully to be relied or., that the Right Hon. Gentle man has had no caufe to be diffatisfied with theM, after an experience of feventeen years ? Derides, Sir, Earl St. Vincent may be fo Farfimonious of the pub. lie money as to be inimical to all idle ctpenditurc.— I content myfelf wi giving an hillance of building in the merchant.' yards . The Ajax was built for 41,0001. and the bargain was thought a very goad one, yet in the coolie of duce years. a further (um of 17.0001. was wanted to complete her for fervice. In limn, Sir, we are called upon to de. Bide, without proper documents, that Lord St. Vin cent is to blame, and that the naval law laid down by the Right Honourable Shipwright behind me, is to he confide, ed as undeniable. Are we then to pats an opiaion. that the Navy of Erp,land is hafteuing to its ruin, and this on the foggettion of one who galls for general exertion awl cordial co operation againft the enemy ; but who new kenos to he affed ed by a panic which he l.irmerly treated with con tempt? I will% to al( tic IC6',t Hon. Gentleman, a nd I will put it to the t1i.,.1e, whether he ht 3 ieves tlAt the attack he Ills made this night n the la'mi• ralry, is lik,Fly to du gio..!, titer it' this Cpuotry, or abroad ? With refpeit to the n:in , ber of leamen, I have no objenion to agree to the [nonunion o f t h at account; tot the Right lice. s.;entiegrion has not tiken a lair comparative view of the !limber railed within the firtt year of the all war, and the year tFloy. At the former period, after a peace of ten years, the nsvy derived a very ctuf.des able inereafe of men frown the Ifni: of enterprise, Inc profpett of prise money, and the great of the naercantal: nsteeell. I 'here . w t• "l in at that time uoSupplenien. tape Alilili.t. no Army of kelcrcr, not a vatory of collateral circumnatices which, in the aetual c•.njunc• lure of affairs, prevent the rUpplies of men for the fee Crevice. The luccils which has Attended the levy ed men in the prevent VW' Is 1111: V i..ELLiet..,,y, when confuler that the brit itis ice i.a. t..paieed great efforts, Ausi that the v. ;:iiitecr ruice a:c ne amounts to 4“.. - • emit ; and 1., tat we be !ions 1.6 mul l ; I..•rt! .t. V lOC CI., that his ciassital in this t r ipes ~ r .,•, ! 1 ; ,1 ti. ha N .hcst pr.sife. It appears, ohm of the , %..ttJ I.v l'etlierbeet. their At..JO Sisies.4o4 for, by the Moms made, there were in aEtual fervice, to the 3 tit of December, 76,000 men ; according to the returns made to the Admiralty by the regulating Captains, 6441 ; and the marines amounted, on the loth of M irch, to 15,673 then; giving a total of 99,174 li.amen and marines. I will now, Sir, put it to the Houle, whether a more fuccefsful exertion could have been made in the teeth of the Volunteers, of the Army of Referee, and of the Supplementary Mi litia, where only 1700 men were wanting to complete the whole of the ellimate ? But, Sir, this is not all ; we have al.co a force of zs,ooo Sea rencibles for Great Britain, putting Ireland out of the queflion. In all thefe inflancei I may fafely afk, whether the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty is a fit object for diftruft and fufpicion ? But lam entitled ' alfo to enquire. where the Right Hon. Gentleman has had his information ? If he has obtained it from fome great naval officer, it certainly may be worth attending to; but until I am fatisfied of this, all I beg of the Right Hon. Gentlerpan is, not to attack, by a fide wind, that high character, and thole pre. eminent talents which have fo effentially contributed to the glory and interetts of the Britifh Empire."— Mr. 'Tierney, after alluding to the mifchievous con fequences which the motion might lead to abroad, particularly in France, with refpat to the fuppofed inadequacy of our naval means of defeace,...conclu ded with calling . on the good fenfe of the Houfe to negative the motion, which, if agreed to, would fet afide the whole experience acquired by the Noble Earl at the head of the Admiralty. He had no ob. jeaion to the prodation of two of the papers moved for, but the others, if laid on the table, could be produltive of no poflible benefit. Sir CHARLES POLE role, not for the purple pf affenting or diffenting from the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, but to give an opinion, in the way of his profeffion, as to the merits and aai vity of the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty. Of that aaivity he could not think too highly, when he confidered that within 48 hours after it was known that hoftilities were' to commence, Admiral Corn wallis failed for Brat, and from that moment to this, with Comely any interruption, has held that port in a Rate of the firidell blockade. The energy, affi deity, and enterprite of every officer, and of every man in that Beet, from the gallant Admiral who commanded it, down to the cook's boy, was never I paralleled in the naval hiltory of this or any other I country—( - Hear/ hear !) —But it was not only the ports of the enemy, of that power who particularly deferred that name, but even thofe of their allies, from, he might almat fay, Toulon to the Tad,' that were kept blockaded by the extraordinary perfe verance and enterprise of the navy of Great Britain. As to the oblations that had been urged again!' the Earl of St. Vincent, for not employing a greater number of gon-boats, that was a difference between that Noble - Lord and the Right Hon. Gentleman ow a profeffional queilion, on which, although he was not without an opinion, yet he would not then trouble the Houfe with it. But with regard to the' employment of armed cotters, he had no motives of delicacy, and be would not befitate to declare, that the taking of them into the fervice was an arrant job, a job, bezaufe the men were rarely muttered, and the veal. were miniy in port 14. had his ideas. with refpea to the proper mode of defending the country; and thofe were diretly againft the ufe of filch ci aft as had been recommended ; for our fhores, he was confidentorould be much better fecured by the fervice of so gumfilips and frigates. There was one remaining point on which he witted to trouble the Houk, and that was, the very confiderable number of men that the admirable arrangement and indefa • tigable exertions of the Board of Admiralty had pro. cured for the Navy, and for which, in his opinion, they, and the Noble Lord who prelided there, were entitled to the thanks and gratitude of the country. As he confidered the promoted enquiry unnecelfary, he would vote againft the produition of the papers that had been moved for by the Right Hon. Gen tleman. Admiral BERKELEY repelled the affertion, that the gun boats which made part of our naval defence, during the left war, were to be conlidered as jobs. The Hots. Gentleman who (poke fecund in the de bate had dated, that nothing had been alledged, that no cafe had been made out, to warrant the propoted enquiry ' • and, in a tone of triumph, demanded what convoys had been cut off, or what great naval dig . - alter had been experienced? That Honourable Gen demon had alto fisted, the deficiency between the number of feamen voted, and the number employed, amounted only to 1700 men; but this was by a mode of arithmetic peculiar to himfclf, in which he rec koned the marines twice over. He fisted the number of learners at 76,000 ; hut were not the marines afloat included in that lumber ? molt certainly they were t and were to mentioned in the ordinary re turns to die Admiralty. He had no perfonal difre. frit to the Noble Earl, whom be had long known, but his objett was to provide, as effeenally as pont ble, tor the defence of the country. In this he was net fo much guided by his own judgment as by the opinion of abler men, who unanimoufly concurred, that if a fuificient number of gun boats had been employed on the coaa of France, the flotilla now at , Lembled at Boulogne would have never reached that , port. Haw did they accomplifli that, but by getting nom On-al water, where no (hip could follow them. As to the fire hundied which, accord - ing to the triumphant Itatement of the Right Hon. Gentleman, they were not fulficiently tea-worthy to gn from Portfinouth harbour to Spithead ; be had fulamitekd a plan to the Board of Admiralty, for the defirnetion of the French flotilla, which confilled in the void:in:lion of a particular fort of verels, which, without any detriment to our navy, might have been mane:: in one month, and were every way compe tent to the potation of our own (bores, and for an :,nying the enemy's cook and which would have left Coe light ye rcls, at prefent employed, at liberty to go al. rood no other duty. Had his plan been adopted, tne G.-vernment would have in pi-414'nm et this nin e, :to a force equal to the difeomfiture of the enemy's rhaiila, and a dirpnfable ligh: marine, that could I •. e protefted oar trade, and prevented the capture f ty treads out 't one convoy, and a rich Weft Nauman, between Portimonsh arid the Downs, which, tt. tt:c ditgrace of our naval exertion., was fairly cat lied into Prance. lie would vote for the mutton. althottgb. in ins opinion, it (lid not go far enough. It IL ,old have extended to the nate of our wind asf i pale. awl to slag I tswoLitsta of nasal Rotes .and !implies of all kinds, He wffhed it had iticiaded alfu the date of our duels, in which, as he was ere. dibly informed, there were at prefent ftc.) fbipwrights (hurt of the ufual number. However, imperfea and npfatisfaaory as it was, it had his hearty concurrence. Sir C. POLE faid a few words is explanation. Sir EDWARD PELLEW.- 44 As I very feldom tremble the Hoare, I hope I may be permitted to make a few obfervations on a fubjeet of which, from the profeffional experience I have had, I may be prefumed to have Come knowledge. From the de. bate of this night, there is one piece of information I have acquired, that the French have got upwards of a thouland veffels at Boulogne. I am glad to find that they are (hut up the:e ; we have one ad we { m ow where they are ; with we vantage in it, had any means of knowing when they intended to come out. I know this much, however, that they cannot all get out in one day, or in one 'light either; and when they do come out, I craft that our cockle fhells alone, as an Honourable Admiral has called a very manageable and very alive part of our force, will be able to give a good account of them. Sir, I do not really fee, in the arrangement of our naval defence, any thing to excite the apprehenfions of even the molt timid among us ; on the contrary, I fee every thing that may be expetted from activity and perfeverance, to infpire us with confidence. I fee a triple naval bulwark, compofed of one fleet adios on the enemy's coat, of another confiding of heavier (hips Rationed in the Downs, ready to ad at a ma ment's notice, and a third dole to the beach, capable of deftroying any part of the enemy's flotilla that fhould efcape the vigilance of the other two branches of our defence. I beg pardon for troubling the Houfe (An oniverfal cry of Hear, Hear !)—but accident brought me here, and I intend that my flay &could be as (bort as poffible—(A great laugh.) In rsfped to whit has been faid of building Zips by contrait, I mud confefs that I do not much admire that mode of keeping up our navy. I have ken tome of them, I partied irly allude to the Ajax and Achille, that I took for Frenchmen. As to gun boats, they are the molt contemptible force that Call be employed; gun brigs, indeed, are of fome ufe ; but between a gun. brig and a gun boat there is alma as much differ. ence as between a man of war and a frigate. I have lately feen half a dozen of them lying wrecked upon the rocks. As to the poffibility of the enemy being Able, in a narrow lea, to pals through our blockading and proteding fquadrons, with all that fecrecy and dexterity, and by thofe hidden means that Come wor thy people gaped, I really, fromany thing that I have feen in the cootie of my profeffional experience, am not much difpofed to concur in it. I know, Sir, and can affert with confidence, that our navy was never better found, that it was never better fupplied, and that our men were never better fed or better clothed. Have we not all the enemy's ports blockaded, from Toulon to Flufhing ? Are we not able to cope, any where, with any force the enemy dare to fend out agaioft us ? and do we not even out-number them at every one of thofe ports we have blockaded ? It would finack a little of egotifm, I fear, were I to fpcak of myfelf (Hear! Hear!); but as a perfon lately having the command of fix (hips, I hope I may be allowed to Rate to the Houfe how I have been fintosted in that c•ontrnami. Sir, daring the time that I was Rationed off Ferrol, I had (hips palling from the fleet to me every three weeks or a month ; and Co much was the French commander (but up in that port deceived by there appearances, that he was perfuaded, and I believe is to this very hour, that I had twelve flips under my command; and that I had two fquadrons to relieve each other, one of fix.infide, and another of fix outfide." Admiral BERKELEY explained. He could not poffibly fuppofe that our naval force was inadequate to the talk of totally difcomfiting the whole force of the enemy if they came fairly out to them : but he meant to fay that they never could pointy have col. lefied in the force in w;.'ch they now are, if we had had a Aifficient number t gun bats to run in (bore, and attack them in fhoal water, where they frequent. ly efcaped from our large vellels, on account of their drawing too much water to be able to purfue them in (bore. Mr. WILBERFORCE laid, that he thought it was his duty, as a Reprefentative of the people, to Hate his opinion with freedom, on the quellion at due. He approved of the prefent motion for inquiry ; otherwile the fecurity of the country could not be Paid to have derived thole advantages which it ought to have done, from the experience of all. We were now in a fituation of difficulty and danger, when the 'moll efforts. as to the defence of the country, were abfolutely neceffiary. He thought the Houle much indebted to the Right Hon. Gentleman who had brought forward this matter, and who thus difplayed his althorn, had given his cotinfel, and proved, by the exertions of his eloquence, how the power and fecu rity of the country could be bell provided. The Honk had been indebted to that fame Right Hon Gentleman on former occarions, for his ufelul tugger lion as to Volunteers. It was certainly incumbent on every one to enforce, and to carry into aelion, all propofitions by which the fafety of the country would be moil amply provided for. It was. he thought, owing, in an efpecial manner, to that antient fyi:em of defence, the Navy, to which every heart was, the firft place, to look. He could not fee how it was poll - Me, at relent, to draw a line as to the pro. priety or impropriety of asking queitions on fuch an important lubjea ; but he thought it was abfolutely proper to inveßigate whether he had ailed in fuch a manner as to place the country in the utmoß poffible (murky, by fee as well as by land. There was no man more ready than he was to acknowledge the high merits of the Fiat Lord of the Admiralty ; but fuch an inquiry was neceffiary, in his opini in order to —He that Noble Lord's condo& to the world. —He could not agree with the Right Honourable Gentleman who fiat Rafted objeetions to the pro poled invefligation ; nor could he difenver that any difadvantage or inconvenience were likely to arile from it. Ii that Right Hon. Gentleman conceived that the fault would be in favour of the Noble Lord alluded ri., he was furprifad that Lc could throw any obtlack in the way to a *jollification, which would tend to remove all fi.fpicions of regligence from that quarter. lie would At, were theuc fin Wails by which fuch an enquiry might be carried on, without th rr extreme degree of ...Lich feeroc.: to Le in much feared ? That I ioufe, he trotted, vas not ft, entirdv dritituitc of mr ins of liookii.g imp thi. public lei rick of the cuuktr , %Inn it is fulioctlgd dot any I (yttem was going on which night prove ;olio -lons tth its defence. He lbws convinced that Mean. might be fallen upons without incurring any danger from that publicity complained of He willed that Gentle. men would retie& what the confermencee might be to the kingdom at large, if every degree of exertind was not ufed at the prefent moment. If any defi ciencies were dircovered, it was neeefrary to _correct them. He could not fee prima fait, a preftimptive ground which had been, or could he, darted ageinft fuch an inveffigation. The prefent motion could only be called a requeft Sot the produCtion of papers; and not an enquiry, altbo' that too might become ne teary after Such pnscludion. As to the argument which had been Set up in oppofitinn to the Ulouonoth# this was a time when the mod univerfal content pre vailed throughout the country, be Should only Faye. that were the Cubit& lefs feriae' nr intereding, would not fay a weed upon it. It behoved *evert man, however, to (peak according to hi. own degree of experience : for his part, he was prepared to fay, that he never yet had known, to the bed of his recolleetion, one tingle profeffional man wbd nr.t expreffed himfelt dilratisfied with the coel 7 duet of the Admiralty. He had pet queftions to profeflional Gentlemen, who had rifen to high and refpeelable fituatiuns, as to the Admiralty. and be bad uniformly received the fame anfwers as to the inadequate (tate of our naval defence. Another ob. je&ion was, that if there really were no more than• too,ooo feamen in his Majeßy's navy, that Perlis ' ment had not granted the Noble Lord any more , than that particular number, in which the marines were probably included; but, at all events it was. no defence whatever in the Admiralty to fay, that no greater number was voted, becaufe, if they had affied a greater number, they woolti undoubtedly. have been granted. It was always, however, us. derdood, that as many feamen were to be employed as could be procured ; fo that if I =moo, or even teo,ooo had been required, Parliament would have complied. He thought, that the old-eftablilbed mode of obtaining the line-olbattle-thips had been. much deviated from by the Admiralty. He wicked to hear a dronger ground of objedion againtt the motion than to (uppofe that the Right Honourable. Gentleman had been urged on by forte difappointed Contraftors. He knew that only one or two Skips had been built in that way lately, while no lets than twenty-nine Ships of the line had been built in tner• chants' yards during the laft war. It appeared to him. that there was no objetiun listed to granting that part of the motion, with regard to gun boats. but only as to !hips of the line (4 ety No INo 1) —He did not, indeed, rightly underhand what part of the motions was intended to be granted, bet if he was not millaken, it was the comparative view of the Navy, including both great and (mall vefcls *dually exiling, and that all the other papers were to be denied t was this a time to depart from the racket praftice. and to allow a deficiency of eight hundred fbipwrights in the King's yards ? Although the No ble Lord at the head of the Admiralty bad fignafifed hinsfelf in the active defence of his country ; yet he begged the Houfe to recoiled, that there was a greet 1 1 difference betwixt his prefent and his former employ. ment. It ought to be (hewn fatisfaaorily to the Houle, that afufficient naval fore: had been provided; for the Rake was too large to hazard Such a game. If it Should be found that we had a greater number of veffels than was neceffary, there was certainly no danger in divulg:ng it ; and if, on the conteary. it Mould be found there was not enough, it would caw tainly not be thought diffidvantageous to mum% their number. Mr. SHERIDAN.—" On a motion of fuch im iportance as that which has been fubmitted to as, it was my intention to have abitained from obtruding myfelf on the notice of Gen :tenter, until I had heard the opinions of perfona beaer enalified from profeffional habits and experience than I am, to judge of the concha.% of the Noble Lord, againd whom this motion, as it Should Seem. is more particularly direfted. But, Sir, the extraordinary fentimeuts which have fallen from the Hon. Gentleman who (poke lad, have compelled me to break through the refolution I had formed. A more unwarranted, s more unparliamentary, and a more unfair argument. I will venture to fay, has never been urged in this Houfe, or in any other, than that of the Hon. Gen tleman ; that you are to judge, from what; not from any official papers, not from any regular documents. but from the mere perfonal aflertions of men who are Sauntering on more, and unemployed. I Should be glad to know the names and the profeffional reputa tions of thole men with whom theiHon. Gentleman has held thole collect:rations, the refult of which he has detailed to us. Are they made of fuch materials as either of the Hon. Baronet., who preceded them in the debate ? or are they perfons who are not employ ed, who pnfTibly clzferve not to be employed, and whole opinions take a colour from what pities in their minds, and are influenced by their difappointment. Why does not the Hon. Gentleman produce thole worthy and well informed perfons on whole opinions he fo moch relies, inßead of coming forward in this covert and unmanly way, with his fecondhand in. formation ? The confcientious Gentleman, conlcien tious as he himfelf fags, is ready to affirm what he has declared to you, in a Court of Judie:. Who doubts him ? but this 1 can tell him, that his tetli. mony in fuel) a cafe is not with a farthing, aadth.at the Court neitlar could or would receive it. No, the Court would fay to him, we cannot take your scald for it; we cannot hear from you, what you lay you ' have heard from others ; produce your evid:ncw let them al pear belae us, and then we (hall have Something on which it will be poffibie for us to decide. The Honourable Gentleman, however, has ,told use that he entewins a very sincere reifita for this Noble Lord ; and really here 1 mud remark. that I never heard of any pn'ilic charaaer for whom men are more forward to proofs reirea—nor one that is to much relpeaed, and yet to much afperf:d. The grounds of the ref ft are. however, tunoriocs, while thole of the arm lion are not even pretended to red upon any thing mere r!..n hearfay evidence, which is duel, nut fiffitient to induce this Houle to acqu'eice in a motion that has nn other oh;;:t in sizse, than to eon sey an imputation 'Ton moll gallant an.li ai m::itotious ch tracers this toll ntry has es... oroducci —For fuch a purpose I wi.l pre tote. will not therefore confers. a •)if g•ant • fq) of paper, l.,:sezver rtatiftht: tht: , r-:. f : • it, that may lead an ci ) no.ctroi whatever ; to elated tutu La .. • .Ar fowl 1 11 the fri , d. —Vet %ono •encs tte to this thole 111 :tnl fea w one ol Ihippi ; Genti B troll vt e zi c. h ft ies! tatty.