Star. — London, England, 1811-01-01 00:00:00

gonown.■mir ipmpl , _ _ . po t nte d e mit aimi l iptarr iidaest v to the comforts or splendour of the Kings but only of the Queen, elan is no pert of the Executive. These Officers of the Househeld, it' must also be kept in mind, must all have appointments and emoluments suit able to the rank and stations which they respectively f i ll. The sp.endour attendant on them must cost the nation a very large ssm of money . ; and he thought, that at a time when the pressure upon the people was so very heavy, any establishment or bur then which could he dispensed with, (eight sedulously to be avoi.ted. What, he asked, could he the object of this n:easure? The Right Honourable Gentleman says, it is respect for his Majesty, in the first place ; and in the next security for his return to power, should he soon recover. Surely, respect and secu rity might be both secured by a less expensive pro cess. 'I . he committing the ciectody of his Majesty's person to the care of the Queer' shews the so-much- • wished-for respect ; and it can scarcely be supposed that those Officers of the Household can add much, if any thing to the security, while her Majesty is to }have all the power of governing the Household.— Besides, those Officer' now to be appointed with the censent and approbation of the House might hereaf. ter be changed ; and then the security, if any, would pass into ocher hands. , The Right Honourable Gen tleman had alluded to the delicacy of the case ; but, fur his part, he did not see why the House shotild suppose that the Queen would, in any case respecting his Majesty, act. with more delicacy than the Prince of Wales would. He had, h9wever, an objection to those Officers still greater than those he bad mention ' ed. There could be.no doubt in the mind of any one of their being men of great political influence ; and surely, if in times like the present, of danger and diffi culty, if necessary, that influence and the splendour attached to their situation ought to be given to the Regent. in preference to any other person whatever. He would have all these dangers and difficulties to encounter—he must stem the force of every torrent, however violent, which might set in against the safety and interests of the Empire; and, therefore, all the powers, both of attack and defence, which may be necessary to render him equal to the task and 'duty assigned, ought by every means to be strengthened, and not enfeebled. The House had of late years had occasion to listen to many arguments on the influence of the Crown ; and he begged them to recollect, that in all those, the present servants of the Crown, the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite to him had uniformly maintained, that the influence of the Crown was not more than was absolutely necessary for carry ing on, with effect, the high and important concerns entrusted to it. With what confidence then could these Gentlemen propose to appoint the Prince of Wales to the of ceof Regent, and, as they say, a trustee for all the powers ofthe King, and at the same time refuse to him or L strip him of that influence, and those prerogatives, without which the King himself could not preserve those powers f The Prince ought unquestionably to possess all those prerogatives and all that fair influ ence which belonged to the King, whose place he is to fill, and whose duties he is to perform. They were ' given by the Cnnstitutinn for the mutual benefit of the King and the people; and the expence attendant , on them was always cheerfully submitted to, because it was deemed the price we pay for our political liberty ; and all and every of them should be be . stowed on the Prince, at the time when lie is placed in so Ruinous and important a station as that of Re gent. Regenclei in every country have been the tunes when into ignes and factions have most flourished; and such being thecase, the House ought not to think of weakening any of those prerogatives or powers belonging to the Crown which have always been ac • knowledged necessary for its security and preserva tion. For all these reasons, he should conclude by moving an amendment to the first resolution, by lcleaving out all the words which contained the re striction. Mr. CANNING, after the able and perspicuous manner in which his . Right Honourable Friend had laid down the question, had been anxious to state as early as possible, and before the minds were agitated by the clamour of protracted debate, the grounds on which he differed from him. He had, however, given way to his Honourable Friend (Mr.. Lambe) to whom he might now give that appellation in its parliamen tary sense, as he perfectly coincided in opinion with him. He thought the House was now arrived at that point where authority ceases and discretion begins.— When he said the point at which authority ceases, he meant, that authority failed the House technically, as a parliamentary authority, able to give sanction to the deeds of the two Houses. It had been said in a former night's debate, that in a case of that kind the revived authority of the King had told back on what load been done during the suspension of his agency, nd had, by a retractive power, given validity to lawyer had. been dime during that suspension.— 'h tt doctrine he would deny; nor would it be said it, in denying it, he had any Parliamentary audio. ty ;against him. In fact, all the time that the Re ncy Bill was lingering in the - House, amendments n amendments were proposed, and one about the tractions to be put on'the Regent's powers, was even when the Bill was actually in the Speaker's and. It had not been passed by the Upper House, nd could not of course be considered in any point of new as forming a Parligenentary precedent. The dif erence in the times called also for mature eonsidera. on, but what he had to offer on the subject he would eserve for another part of his speech, and proceed to state the situation in which the House appeared to him to/ stand. They were assembled to supply the deficiency of the Executive power, and svhe. eaer the Prince was invested with snflicient autho rity to fulfil that purpose, with or without restric ti-ns, there was no doubt, no possibility that he uould be considered 'in any other light than as a trustee to his Majesty. The protracted debates, on this subject,. had produced diet advantage, that it was impossible to mistake the intentions of the Douse, and the conditions on which such a power w as granted. But in defining the authority they sv,:re thus about to entrust to the Regent, he would not adopt his Honourable Friend's opinion; he 011:t1 not admit the distinction between the power necessary .to. carry on - the war, and that which was inilispensible for the internal government of the eustry. These two ways in which the Royal Authority acted, were not to be separated; and even carrying in the war, it was not by solitary and. unconnected acts that the Executive Government puucopally acted, but by its influence and isupies- ..L ;, ICI ,~ ~ 1 +~ ~ ••• ' ' •• - • • • • • . . • , sino on the whole of the State, whose resources t that House, would at all times furnish sufficient i probability of power being so used as to prevent tit it ,called into action. In all modes of. warfare, l checks to a lavish use of the Peerage in the person ' King's return to the exercise of the imp srtent forte this power, unrestricted, was hardly adequate to :of the Regent about to be appointed. The opinion of tions of his high office, he would not be instrumental meet the failures and the difficulties of every kind, the people was all the check he required, he did not ;in so bestowing of it s (,He could not imagine that any springing at every step ; and in the arduous war- i want to rely on the theoretical 14r of the Constitu.: one to enjoy power, would purchase it by such base fare in which we were engaged, Government was tion. The proposed restrictions, with respect to the j means—ispecially, he remembered, that the Regency left with still less men to meet increased di ffi culties. disposal of places for life, were to him equally objet. ! would be of so limited and fugitive a nature, that every The precedent of 1788, was the one so much relied j tionable. What was the legitimate use of o ffi ces for I morning the Regent and his Ministe r s arose , thvy upon by the movers of the Resolutions, and adduced I life ? Their use was to enable Government to bring might expect an end put to the Regeneylet the reef , - as a ground for recommending such a line of proceed- persons into employment, who otherwise in venturous very of the King. By proper regulatiod the resumption ing ; and that precedent alone guided all those who I times like these would not hazard on any high or im- of power by die King in the event of his reemreeTt supported the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Though portant course of life. Was that any fanciful theory I might he so easy, that should any hoped ntent th it precedent was adduced by the mover of the Re-; of his, or was it justified by facts ? It was justified by thrown in his way the mere act of avowing such rec.., solutions, and though the House was called upon to ; facts, and innumerable instances proved that such very would remove all obstacles. In such a perilous follow the example of 1 1 88, still those proceedings places were most useful in the hands of Government. period as the present the fullest possession, and t it. were not in the present instance strictly adhered to by Was there any necessity for it, he could in his imme- j most exertion of all the Royal Prerogatives were re the Chancellor of the Exchequer. To the restrictions f diate recollection refer to several cases. He could in- quired ; and that being his firm opinion, he could proposed in 1768, new ones were now proposed ; to stance the great use that had been made of them in never consent to any rests actions of those Prerogatives. the exceptions then named, new ones were now men. the person of a Right Honourable Friend near him the full exercise of which was so ne cessar y to th e tioned. Because lie would nut consent to the r e s t r i c - ! (alluding to Mr. Perceval, we s u r mi s ed) as w e ll as i n safety and well-being of the people. No restrictions ting of the Regent in the granting of Peerages ; he ; the instance of another Honourable Friend who sat were required, and if there were :toy, they would should be asked, e what! would you rob a gallant and near him (Mr. Yorke) who had afterwards accepted only tend to promote internal division, and endless victorious officer of those marks of his Sovereign's ' a high official situation. He had ever defended the. discussions in that House. With respect to the regu. favour to other great and glorious actions ?" No, use of offices for life, and those instances alone would lations for the custody of his Majesty's person, by en he would not ; but if the Regent were to have the i confirm the opinion he had often expressed ; and were trt:sting the King to the care of her Majesty, they power of granting those marks of a Sovereign's favour :he to look a feW years back, he could adduce instances were just and proper, and were defensible on • very to meritorious persons, as rewards forgreat and gallant that ought to meet with the approbation of all ; and ground of analogy drawn from private life, or from services to the State, the power should be allowed to , that ought to make all admit that they were useful every man's reason. He objected to the lineeei be so exercised, that the Regent would be following i and agreeable to the Constitution. He did not mime period propeed for continuing the restrictions, as they i the Constitution, and would not be acting in a way to exclude the possibilities of their being applied to would occasion discussions in that House at the that would tend to undo it. Prerogative ceased to ; improper and detrimental uses, but he would con- expitation of a twelvemonth, and the proposer of be prerogative when it was exercised in the manner ! tend that if they were useful to a • King in the full ex- the resolution, he doubted not, looked forward to proposed by the Bill. The provisions of the Bill were ercise of his functions, they would be useful to a Re- the next meeting of Parliament, for support in the practically inconvenient and injudicious ; and he won. I gent exercising the functions of such King during his measures he might then propose. He would nos tiered much that hisßight Hononrable Fe'end (the met therefore he • eld maintain, that the Re- Ki. eof the riend ( rapacity, would 111 L _ amat . Chancellor of the Exchequer) was not aware of such gent ought not to be restricted from bestowing of inconvenience. What was it that made honours re. such places, should they become vacant during the spectable to the meritorious hero ? It was the reflcc- t Regency. Even were the Regency to last but for a that.they flowed spontaneous from the Sovereign I short . time, he would not deprive the Regent of the op tnind ; and, to use the words that have been before I portunity of rewarding those who had evinced any at repeated in that House, when they were bestowed in tachment to his services, by bestowing on them such such a manner that they ".blest him that gave, and `places as might fall vacant within such pet iod. For him that took." But what would be the reflections the Regent to bestow such places as might become of those who received honours from the Regent, if vacant during his Regency, on those who had evin followed by such a Bill as be proposed ? That he ced an attachment to his interests, he should not call ,received honours agreeable to the regulations of an an abuse of the power entrusted to him, although [ Act of Parliament, when they ought to have been the persons so rewarded with places for life had not the spontaneous rewards of the Sovereign. Such rendered any eminent public service. While such would he the galling reflections that would rankle gifts were allowed to be in the gift of the Crown, is the bosom of an Officer who had been honoured they ought not to be held from the Crown in this par. alYreeably to the regulations of an Act of Parlia. titular Instance, for however different he might be in men, and that would make those honours sit heavy his name still the Regent would virtually be the King. on the honoured. By such a Bill the Regent would One reason gleamed from amid the cloud of excuses fact be the Trustee of Parliament, to confer ho- that bad been urged for restricting the Regent from nours on those, who, by achievements in the field of granting places for life should they fall vacar.t within battle, or on the bosom of the ocean, had rendered a twelvemonth, which was remarkable as it was pro.' the State eminent services; and every man who had minent, namely, that for the Regent and his Govern. achieved any thing, however trivial it might be, meat to have such a power it would tend to obstruct would conceive himself to be entitled to receive it at the King's assumption of his Royal functions in the 'the hands of such a Trustee of Parliament. Such event of his recovery from his present indisposition was his view of the effect of the Restrictions with re- Such an argument was fallacious in the extreme. spect to the Peerage ; and was it an imaginary one ? The possession of such a power was calculated to . It was not in his estimation. The Generals of our do much good, though it could not influence a majo time might gain victories that might vie with the rity, while its supension in the person of a Regent was proud and boasted triumphs of Marlbro's titne ; in pregnant with evils of no common magnitude. The such cases they would merit the highest honours a restriction on the prerogative for the creation of Peers grateful Sovereign could confer. But those Officers I was also of evil tendency, as he had before observed. who now were, or hereafter might be engaged in the The evils to be apprehended from its restriction, as tented field, might meet with disasters, or on the ; proposed, were, in his opinion, of,much more weight contrary, they might be partially successful. In an than the fears expressed by some with respect to an instance of partial success, it might be contended by I abuse of it. The instances of abusing the preroga some that it was equal to a glorious victory, and ; tive for the erection of Peers for corrupt purposes in that honours ought to be conferred on those who England were but rare ; and he could but call one achieved it ; while others, on the contrary, would instance to mind, and that was in the reign of Queen maintain, that it was of such little moment that Anne, who, to obtain a majority in the House of to confer honour, on account of it, would be to raise Lords, created 12 Peers in one day ! Such had been it to an unproportioned and monstrous estimation ; the abuse of the prerogative in one instance ; -but that to bestow marks of a Sovereign's favour for such he would have the House to look at the state of the a pigmy victory, would be to depreciate the value of Peerage in that day, and compare it to its present honours in the eyes of the soldier and the seaman. number. Then there were not more than two hundred As to the merits of a particular action, according to ' Peers, now there were three hundred and six ; and was the ideas of different parties, we need only refer to a it possible for any one to imagine in their wildest very recent instance, namely, to the discussions that theories that such an abuse of the prerogative of cre took place on the motion for the thanks of that House sting Peers could now occur,_as happened in the reign to Lord Welli - for the glorious battle of 'Pala- of Queen Anne? The - of the abuse of deprive the King , splendour and state, which ought to encircle Royalty, but in the restricting for a given time, there was something peculiarly potent and gloomy—it was fixing an early period for de spair. At the expiration of a twelvemonth it might so happen, that his Majesty still continued in a state of mind which rendered him incompetent of exercising the tuneJ . ions of Royalty, and the House might deem it necessary to have recourse to such a course of pro. ceeding, as.he should not like to witness. He should not like to see after the expiration of this given period for restriction, a Bill brought into the House, the preamble of which would be expressed to the effect that since there is no hope of his Majesty's reco very," &c. and he would rather that no fixed period should be put to the continuance of the Restriction, if the House should ultimately be of opinion that the Regent ought to be restricted. He disapproved of the Regulations respecting the King's Household, an he would rather that no 'Regulations whatever wer proposed, concerning it. He disapproved of the . Restrictions proposed, consequently the Resolutioo could not have his support. Mr. MATTHEW MONTAGUE contended th the arguments advanced by the Right Hun. Gents (Mr. Canning), and by tie Hon. Gent. on the other side Mr. Lamb), were equally applicable to the case. in 1788, when the restrictions to granting peerages in. Mr. Pitt's time were extended to 'a longer period. HeX did not see why they should not take advantage of. that authority in a case where the period was much- 4 shorter.—What they had said turned upon the sup-. position that when they appointed a Regent, they ap4 pointed a complete possessor of the Crown. Thee were bound to think, after the evidence of the Physt.t cians, that the ,King would soon return to the exerciser of his functions, which he might happily yet exercise: for a long period, so that they were bound to %pre.. serve the prerogatives of the Crown for him, and to secure an easy return to the possession of all his pre- , rogatives. • Lord CASTLEREAGH contended, that the pre cedent of 1788 rested on sound and constitutional principles, and that it ought to be followed in pro-1 viding for the necessity that was now unfortunately to be provided for, and ate feared that it that pre c edent were departed from in the present instance, it might be the cause of great public calamity. The restric- 4 tions,, he contended, were highly necessary for the preserving of the Y - power perfect, and fur the facilitating of his ► ''s re-assumption of his . . ..iington g , apprehension , _al vera. In his- opinion, therefore, to restrict the Re- the - power,respecting the creation of Peers, was about gent with respect to the peerage, as proposed, would as well grounded as the idea that a few persons hay. be the source of endless discussions in that House. ing places for life would obstruct the re-assumption Questions might arise, whether the Regent, as the of - power by the King, in the event of his recovery ! officer or Parliament for the distribution of honours Such an apprehension was as preposterous as any by conferring Peerages, had not exceeded his trust that could possibly enter into the imagination of the by giving them where they were not merited, or whe- wildest theorist ; for on an average not more than one ther he had not omitted to give where they were me- of those offices for life fell vacant its a period of four cited ? Such in all human probability would be the years, and if one or twd were to become vacant within 'consequence, one way or the other the Regent's dis- = a twelvem,onth could they stand in the breach, and posal of Peerages could scarcely escape discussion in . with their mighty strength of offices for life oppose the 'that House. He thought it world be a most heart- ' King's return to power ? The precedent of 1;88 rending thing to the Parliament that military services would not apply to the present case, although it had should go unrewarded, and he thought it would be still been stretched and cut for the purpose, and afterwards . more heart-rending to them to see honours bestowed laid before the Committee for, The times 'where they were not merited. He would rather that ! were different, circumstances were altered; and those the prerogative, with respect to the Peerage, in the ' who followed the great example of Mr. Pitt, by ser person of the Regent should be suspended for a vilely treading in his steps, without a reference to the twelvemonth, than that it should be restricted as pro- peculiarity of that necessity which the House were posed, and the Regent thereby exposed to opposition called upon to supply, or to the change in circum from the Parliament. Another Lord Chancellor stances, did not so much honour to that great man's might be made by the l'tegent under the title of Lord memory as those who opposed the proposition for re. Keeper, for that title was similar to that of Lord stricting the Regent in perilous times like the present. Chancellor, but then he might be told that to prevent If the House, and those who approved of the restric tions as proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, such occurrence a clause could be introduced in the Bill. But for clauses of such a na tu r e ther e was no would call to their recollection the situation of Eng precedent, and rather than create a precedent, that land in 1788, they would find that the resolutions of Mr. Pitt were proposed in a time of profound peace, the two Howes should interfere with the granting of peerages, he would prefer that the prerogative *mold and when it seemed as if the seeds of future and per be suspended altogether. Much had at different manent tranquillity were grown in the garden of times been said about the lavish use of the peerage , the civilized world. Such were the flattering and and that it tended to give an undue influence to soothing times in which Mr. Pitt proposed his Reso lution respecting the restrictions of the Regent, but the Crown ; but he could not see that any undue influence had been given to the Crown by the use this was a period of great external difficulty, when it had made of the peerage, and he doubted much the exertion of all the prerogatives of the kingl i i office whether the Power of the peerage was equal to the might be required to ensure the safety of the nation, power of the House of C.....rtnons ? He doubted very nsy the existence of the country itself. A plan might much whether the power of making p eers h a d been he devised that would suit all times and circumstances, " carried in excess by his present Majesty in any part of though such a thing was barely within the reach of the reign. If the unlimited prerogative of creating possibility ; but he could not imagine that the prece- Peers in the person. of the Regent were abused, that dent of 1788, was one of those that was fitted for all House had an opportunity of restricting such preroga- times and circumstances. It had been said that Minis tivei to prevent its future abuse. Were such an oc- tersof late years had been lavish of the power they en currence* to take place in the person of the Regent, the joyed of advising the creation of peers, and that the indignation of the country would be so roused, as King had been compelled to check that lavish disposi would the jealousy of theHouse'of Com mon s , that there lion ; but he denied that such bid been the fact. There would be no difficulty in immediately putting an end was, however, a greater and graver charge against the -tch - abuse of --ewer. The public opinion proposal for kir—the Regent unlimited and unrestric King's of .. Majesty' _ —.sumpt _ power. in the event of the King's recovery. His Lordship - then proceeded to state that considering his Majesty's lamented illness, and that even were the prospect of ; his recovery set within the knowledge of Mortal eye, he would deem a Regency until that happy period a- rived, both expedient and proper. But he considered restrictions as necessary on the exercise nt the Royal Prerogative, and proper for preserving theancient con- . stiiutional system of the country. The same principle , of reasoning applied with much propriety to all the ' 'other restrictions. Restrictions, he observed, did not weaken the Government, and those which were proposed, would keep alive all that was necessary 's to ensure stability and seem ity. He wished when his Majesty returned, restored and invigorated, to his fora mer functions, that he_should find them unimpaired g and unbroken, and that his powers and prerogatives had not been violated by his country when he was not able to prevent the violation. The Noble Lord gave his concurrence heartily to the restrictions which were proposed. He loved and revered the Prince ; he admired his goodness of heart and his talents ; but it was not fear lest the Prince should misuse the exer cise of the Royal Prerogative that urged him to vote ' for these restriction's ; for could aught of personal re gard prompt him, or his own feelings justify him in voting against restrictions, still the anxiety he had for ' the public welfare, the sincere attachment which he was proud to maintain firm in his heart, and unbroken in his conduct, for the happy Constitution of his coun. try, his regard for the public interest—all these uni-* ted, must decide in favour of restriction, and bid him not violate the rights of the nation. He considered himself a servant of the public, and private or do• mestic feeling were swaliowed up in the zeal he would ever, he hoped, entertain for the public welfare. His Lordship next proceeded to state his opinions concerning the management of his Majesty's House. • hold. He observed, that lie would wish to deprive the King of nothing which might tend to ~is comfort send advantage. Hu would wish him only, how► ever, to retain the necessary comforts and convenien. cies, which, whoever should be appointed to have tht4 care and nursing of his person, should deem useful to the furtherance of his recovery, and to the proper, management of his household economy, this his Lord. ship remarked, did not strictly belong to ths od' modes of arrangement. He stood alone, and s' well „iving_ ted powers ; namely, that itwould tend to prevent the ' fare might be considered apart, and whatever i King's return to power, in the event of his recovery; form the arrangements of his Majesty's affairs and did he supp o se that these was the moat distant ' alto, the trappings of his state might be given to an I:would be aga;nst the Regent, and that was greater and more powerful than all the rest. (Hear, hear, bear.) Pub 1 ... . -. opinion, together. with the voice of • , .