Star. — London, England, 1809-04-15 00:00:00

. the land ; and when these papers should be laid before the House, he was .confident that it would clearly apFear there was no foundation for de nominating this transaction a job. Sir OSWALD 11 , 10SELY said, that having ac companied the Hon. Mover to vies the premises, to which the motion alluded, he was enabled to confirm his statement. The infirmary, which did not in fact occupy one-tenth of the ground purchased, profes sedly for the use of the Hospital, would, he must contend, be entirely precluded from the free air of the river by the projected buildings of Col. Gordon, who occupied the remainder of this ground. In fact, CAonel Got don's was by tar the superior part of the ground, and that upon w hich the Infirmary was built appeared quite damp and cold, and it must be ren dered more so, if Colonel Gordon should be suffered to proceed. Mr. LONG observed, that there was a special pro vision in the 12ase grimed to Colonel Gordon, that he should not build or plant in any way to inconve nience the intirn.ary. So that particular care was taken to guard against such evil as the Hon. Baronet had alled;;.ed to exist. Mr. IHJSKISSON defended the grant objected to by the Honourable Mover, who professed to have so much judgment upon this subject, tint he seemed to think it would have been more proper to consult him upon the buildings alluded to, than thy. architects or the physicians. To what had been sad with re spect to the comparative value of the two .ots of this ground, he should only oppose the reports of the sur veyers, which reports were delivered in on oath. Ac cording to these reports the lot upon which the infir mary was erected, was valued as a permanent pur chase to the public at the sum of £(3:70:), while that approin fated to Colonel Gordon was rated only at i.:32 per annum, on a lease of 80 years. As to the idea, that Chelsea Hospital should be so extended to receive all pensioners, if such an idea existed in the Hoo. Baronet's mind, he believed he was perfectly singular in the sentiment. The I lon. Member ani madverted upon what he considered the high colour ing, which the Hon. Baronet gave to the possible in convenience to be suffered by the pensioners, as if they were to be as ill off as a body of slaves upon the middle passage, whereas no inconvenience whatever was reasonably to be apprehended. But all the Ho nourable Baronet's statements would be fully refuted by the production of the papers relative to the tran saction. Sir JOHN NEWPORT asked how it came, if all this Lind were originally granted by the Crown to Chelsea, that when the lease expired it should revert to the Crown, instead cf . becoming, as he conceived it ought, the property of Chelsea Hospital or public property. Mr. HUSKISSON stated, that although Chelsea Hospital was built on the Chelsea estate, the land alluded to still continued as a part of the Crown lands belonging to that estate ; and the fact was, that the purchase of the unexpired lease of thi*land from Lord Yarborough was not made from the public pars 9, but from the produce of the rents of the Crown lands. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER maintained, that the Honourable Baronet had no ground for the observation, that it was in consequence of the ignorance of his friends, relative to this trans action, that the Honourable Baronet was called upon yesterday to give notice of this motion. For although his Noble Friend (Castlereagh) was unacquainted with .t, as he must be naturally supposed, having no connection with it, still near the same explanation had been given to the Honourable Baronet yesterday uhich the House had heard to-day. But yet he was happy that the notice was called for. He esteemed that rule of proceeding, because it guarded the House, or, at least, those who might be particularls , interes ted, against being taken by surprise ; but it did more by apprising persons of an intended motion, those likely to be affected by it, and particularly Ministers, mean , might he taken to counteract statements which ' would otherwise go forward uncontradicted, to pro duce inflammatory impressions—the only object pos sible, in s-a-ne cases, of bringing them forward. The Honourable Baronet was constantly jealous of people in dice. Perhaps it was a very laudable jealousy, and he did not mean to quarrel with it. But he could rot help observing, that the Honourable Baronet looked at every thing proceeding from Administra tion with a very prejudiced, jaundiced eye. If not, bow could the Honourable Baronet designate this transaction under discussion as a job ? How could he think of inflaming tha public mind by such an assertion, without having, as it appeared, taken any trouble to inquire into the circumstances ? Why, ithout such inquiry, endeavour to produce the im pression out of doors, that in order to gratify some savoured individual, the poor sick pensioners were ex posed to inconvenience, as if there was no feeling for the fate of these men but in the breast of the Ho nourable Baronet ? But let Gentlemen consider the piain state of this case. It appeared that a lot of ground was purchased for the use of the Infirmary, at Chelsea. Upon this ground the Infirmary was built, and a certain proportion of the ground remait - in;, was unappropriated. This was the proportion diTos of to Colonel Gordon. If such a disposition had not. been made—if the remainder of this ground Lad been left useless and unproductive—Low proba ble was it that, with the jaundiced eye of the Ho nourable Baronet directed towards all Ministerial measures, he would hav e come d own to t h at H ouse to complain, that Ministers—that those who, in his opinion, forfeited all public confidence, by endeavour ing to serve the public in office, were such improvi dent stewards of the public property, that they had left a certain portion of lend utterly useless and un- ' occupied, which might have been let on good terms ? Thar, hear ! on the Ministerial flenches.) But in all future dispositions of Crown la"nds, the Hon. Da ' ronet, he supposed, would rather that Ministers should consult him, than the Surveyors appointed by law. To this idea, however, with all respect to the lion. Baronet's judgment in such matters, he could not accede. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded ith expressing his confidence, that when the papers moved for were produced they would scree to refute all the aspersions which the honourable Baronet had thought proper to fling out against his Majesty's Mi nisters. General TARLETON thought the Flora:twat)le Baronet entitled to the highest thanks for calling the attention of the Houltew this subject. Any :t t teni p t R, diminish the convimience, or even to ir.tt:rfete uith who value 3 1 • f ; r the beauty of Chelsea Hospital he should most strenu ously deprecate. That building he considered as a splendid monument of the benevolence and a gratifi cation to the pride of the country. It furnished ac commodation to the old, and encouragement to the young soldier; and therefore every friend to the army must be anxious to preserve it unimpaired. Certainly, nothing that could tend in the remotest degree to reduce, its comforts ought to be even risked fur such a sum as fifty-two pounds a year. Blithe hoped the evil complained of would be removed, as he was gl.id to hear it intimated from the Treasury Bench. (Here there was an apparent expression of a ne gative.) The Honourable Officer proceeded—Nei ther the receipt of rent, however considerable, nor the merit of any Officer England ever saw, however dis tinguished, should reconcile him to any grant likely to interfere with the comforts of the meritorious body who occupy Chelsea Hospital. The Honourable Officer concluded with stating, that he should be happy to find that the papers would justify the con fident language of the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last ; but if not, he declared his intention to support the Honourable Baronet in his motion for bringing the Surveyors and the Medical Gentlemen of the Hospital to the Bar, to be examined upon this subject. Mr. ROSE defended the disposition of the lands, objected to by the Honourable Mover. Mr. BIDDULPH was glad that the attention of the House had been called to this subject, because it must Le productive of one good effect—that it will induce Gentlemen to look into the provisions of the Act of the 34th of the King, under which the dispo sition alluded to took place. In his opinion, a much m're beneficial arrangement than that Act prescribed might be provided to regulate the disposal of crown lands. That Act was originally introduced upon the alledged ground of guarding against the influence of the Crown ; but it appeared to him, that there was still left quite scope enough for that influence to ope rate. The land was never advertised, and the bar gains were close. Now, instead of such a mode of proceeding, he would have the land advertised, take the Surveyor's report, and then sell the land by pub lic auction. This struck his mind as a much more beneficial plan for managing the crown lands than that which was now pursued. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT expressed a hope that he should experience the indulgence of the House while he took some notice of the allusions which the Right Hon. Gentleman on the other side (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) had thought proper to make to his general conduct. Those allusions were so foreign to the question before the House and so ir regular in other points of view, that he really should have hoped that the eye of the Chairman would have caught that of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and checked him in his high career, when imputing im proper motives to the conduct of any Member. This observation he made, he could assure the Right Hon. Gentleman, without any feeling of that indignant warmth which appeared to actuate him. Arrogance might be imputed to him for pronouncing any opi nion upon the subject of the building referred to, without inquiring about the reports of the architects and surveyors. But if he had incurred such an im putation before, he feared that still more arrogance would be imputed when he said, that after hearing all that had been said explanatory of the reports, so much relied upon by the Gentlemen on the other side, he continued to retain the same opinion. The Right Hon. Gentleman became, he perceived, quite angry when he talked about attaching a feeling of suspicion to the whole conduct of Ministers. For himself he was ready to say, that he should be sorry for the existence of such a feeling if undeserved—but from experience he mt4t say, that he was highly glad to see that such a feeling prevailed, because he thought that it rested upon good grounds, and that the public mind had been too long deceived.— One Right Honourable Defender of the transaction to which his motion referred, had stated, that the ground sold 4) Colonel Gordon was Irak to build upon. Now, he would ask that Right Honourable Gentleman, how came it that if this ground was fit for the building of Colonel Gordon, why not for that of Chelsea Hospital ? As to the report of the physi cians, it was impossible, he thought, that they could consider an Infirmary, occupying in the whole not more than a quarter of an acre of ground, as benefit ted, or rather as uninjured, by a wall eight feet high, built in such a position as to interrupt the free circu lation of air. Sure he was, that no man of common sense could subscribe to the opinion. But that such an institution slit uld be subjected to such an inconvenience for the paltry consideration of £52 a-year, the idea was intolerable. He would rather pay that sum out of his own pocket, than suffer such a grievance, th allow it to exist, if it were only to prevent a magni public edifice from being deformed, much less to preserve the comforts of a meritorious bcdy of veterans. Among those who attempted to argue againsthim he could not help noticing the hyberbole oftheHon.Secretary( Hus kisson ) in his allusion to slave ships. Now, having said nothing whatever to warrant such an allusion, it was therefore quite misrepresentation, and such misrepre sentation of an opponent's atgument, always furnishes a presumption that the person using it is wrong. After describing the situation of the ground upon which Colonel Gordon was preparing to build, the Honourable Baronet said, that he knew many Gentlemen who would, he had no doub - , be ready to give 110,000 for such scite. With regard to the , remarks of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he looked at the whole conduct of Ministers with a jaundiced eye, he assured the Right Hon. Gentleman that, on the contrary, he had no wish whatever to hamper or to supersede them. He had said often elsewherewhat he would then repeat, thathe thought them even as good Ministers under the present sys tem as any other set of Gentlemen he knew were likely to make. But still he looked at them with jealousy, as he would at any Ministers, and that jealousy was the natural result of the conviction upon his mind, that the public interests had not for many Years back been attended to as they ought. When the Right Honourable Gentleman expressed his ap -1 prehension that if this ground had not been let, he 1 I was such a captious person, that probably he would have brought forward a complaint against Ministers' for being ..,0 improvident, he would appeal to the Hoti‘o, whciber he had manifested any disposition to Nl nrrint such an apprehension—whether, in fact, he hid ever been in the habit of bringing forward ' such motions ? He should. ftel much better pleased if he could consistently agree with the majority of any assembly in which he happened to sit, but while he could not do so, he would never shrink from his duty, however painful the task of performing it. As to official forms, which had been dwelt upon by the Hon. Secretary, the Hon. Baronet allowed that re. cent experience shewed that all those forms might be strictly complied with while the grossest mal-practices went on. After recapitulating and enforcing his argu ments the Hon. Baronet persisted in his intention to call the persons to the Bar, who were most competent to inform the House upon this transaction, which he con tinued to consider a job ; which, leaving the Infir mary entirely out of the question, ought not to be dis posed of in a way that would take from the beauty of the Hospital. The Honourable Baronet approved of the idea thrown out by his Honourable Friend, of moving that a plan of the grounds alluded to should be laid before the House. But he would recommend Gentlemen to go, as he had done, to look at the building under consideration, and their own observa tions would, he was confident, serve more to convince their minds than any argument that could be offered upon the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER in explanation stated, that he did not mean to im pute any improper motives to the Honourable Ba ronet. If he had done so, he was ready to apolo gize to the House and to him. At the same time the Honourable Baronet must expect the language of irritation from him, when he characterized as a job a transaction in which he had been concerned. Mr. STURGES BOURNE observed, that all that had been required for Chelsea Hospital was granted. If thosemoreparticularlyconnected with the Hospital, had desired the whole of this ground they would have had it. He could conceive no motive that could have induced them to ask less than was really wanted.— The Treasury, he contended, had throughout strictly performed their duty—and had expressly restrained the lessee from building houses, or planting trees in any situation where they might be in the slightest de gree inconvenient to the purposes of the Hospital. Mr. GEORGE VANSITTAR r asked what was the quantity of the ground ? Mr. HUSKISSON replied, that this would appear when the plan and the papers were before the House. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT replied, that it con sisted of four acres and a quarter, of which the quar ter had been assigned to the Hospital, and the four acres to Colonel Gordon.—(Hrar! Hear!) Mr. STEWART WORTLEY observed, that the Treasury had acted with all the precautions required by the Act of Parliament. It was a serious thing to bring a charge against the Treasury of having been engaged in a scandalous job, and then to say that the Honourable Baronet had been unacquainted with the circumstances under which they had acted. Mr. P.. MOORE said, that all who were interested in Chelsea Hospital, were greatly obliged to the Ho nourable Baronet for having brought forward this business. Of all the things wanted for an Infirmary, fresh air was the most requisite, and he hoped the building on this ground would not be permitted to proceed until some further inquiry was made. He also expressed his wish that the terms on which the lease had been purchased by the Treasury from Lord Yarborough, should be stated, because this appeared necessary for the purpose of comparison, and would contribute materially to the attaining of correct views on the subject, he even thought it might be adviscable to move for the proper documents on that point. The motion of Sir Francis Burdett was then put and carried. Mr. HUSKISSON in moving for the other papers said, that he need not trouble the House with much farther observation. He denied, however, that the Infirmary would be cooped up in the manner des cribed by the Hon. Baronet. He stated that the sum which had been paid to Lord Yarborough, upon the report of the Surveyor, was 45000, but he saw no reason for calling for the documents. He concluded by moving for a copy of the letter of the Secretary of Chelsea Hospital to the Treasury, soliciting a grant of part of this ground for an Infirmary—for the letter from Colonel Gordon for the lease—for the warrant to the Surveyor to examine the ground—for the re. port of the Surveyor, and other documents to shew the course of the transaction. Mr. PETER MOO RE remarked upon the extraor- dinary nature of the proceeding in this case, where £5OOO was admitted to have been given for four acres and a quarter of land, of which the quarter only had been assigned to the Hospital, while the four acres were given to Colonel Gordon at £52 a-year.— ( Hear, hear ! ) This he thought a matter for seri ous inquiry —for, if the business was not a scanda lous job, it had at least been conducted in a dark corner. Mr. HUSKISSON's motions were then agreed to. ADMIRAL HARVEY. Mr. ROBERT WARD stated at the Bar, that the Admiralty had found it necessary to issue its Warrant to take Rear Admiral Harvey into custody, in order to stand his trial before a Court Martial, under charges of a breach of Naval Discipline, exhibited against him by Lord Gambier. As Admiral Harvey was a Mem ber of the House, it had been thought a mark of just respect to state the circarnstance, and lay a Copy of the Warrant on the Table. The SPEAKER ordered the Warrant to be delivered in at the Table. The Clerk read the Warrant, which purported that the proper Officer was to take Admiral Harvey into custody, and to bring him before a Court Martial, to be held at Portsmouth, on Mon day, the Ist of May next, or as soon after as a Court Martial could be assembled, to answer to Charges exhibited against him by Lord Gambier. It also itttimated, that it was not the inten tion of the Admiralty that the confinement of Admiral Harvey should extend any farther than he should give his honour to ap pear before the Court. BOARD OF CONTROUL. Mr.CREEVEY asked whether the house which had been pur chased in Downing-street had been given as an official residence to the President of the Board of Controul, and declared his inten tion, if so, to contend afterwards, that such grant was contrary to law. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, that the house had been given as a residence to the President of the Board of Controul, in consideration of the small emoluments of that officio as compared with the laborious and important duties annexed to it. It was then ordered, on the motion of Mr. Cs EEVEY, that there be laid before the House a copy of the Minute or Minutes of the Treasury, relative to the purchase of a hcuse in Downing-street, and the grant of the same to the Pre sident of the Board of Controul. DUBLIN PAVING COMMISSIONERS. Mr. GR ATTAN asked whether it vas intended to proceed with the Dublin Paving Bill ? lie had strong objections to that Bill, and it was decidedly opposed by the iiihabitants of Dublin who had presented petitions against it. He wished to know whither it was intended—to persist in it—if not it would save trouble on naiades. Mr. CROAKFR admitted that the bill as at first sent over to Ireland had many objectionable clauses ; but his Right I lonour• able and gallant Friend (Sir Arthur Vi'ellvsley) had made several alterations in the original Bill, which rendered it much less ur,_ palatable to the City of Dublin. As matters stood, howev,.. It was not Intended at present to proceed any farther wit!: Mr. GRATTAN then moved, that the bill be read a 9.d this slay six months.—Ordt.red. ATION IN IRELAND. Sir JOHN NEWPORT, after a few words on tht• .mporartre of attending to the business of education in Ireland, moved that the Report of the Board cf Education to the Lord Lieutenai lt , respecting the state of the Schools in Ireland, which had bee laid before the House, should be printed. Mr. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER seconded motion, which *as ageed to. - , Mr. SHAW E, of Dublin, gave notice, that he would n n ,. that the Report of the Dublin Paving Commissioners e:•ould printed. CONQITEST OE MARTINIQUE. Lord CASTLEREAGH rose, pursuant to 1,,. notice of yesterday, to call the attention of the Hoe,- to the merits of that part of the Army and N e e s which had effected the conquest of Martinique._ This, he stated, was not the first time that the grati tude of Parliament had been expressed to the conger. rors of Martinique ; and that service had certainil never been effected in a manner more honourable every point of view to those who had been employed in it than on the present occasion. Whether the House regarded the whole course of proceeding, er the shortness of the time in which the conquest ha been accomplished, the service must be considered a • having been formed in a way that called for the best acknowledgments 'of Parliament. It was a most in:. portant feature in this transaction, that it had net it:. terfered with other services—that it had been accom plished without an armament from Europe, wh;ce. had on former occasions been required, bat that the ability of the, officers abroad had been adequate t;• the purpose, without any effort from home. It eeis a proud circumstance in the military situation of the country, that this conquest had been eilkeetj in the West Indies, while .50,000 men were employed. abroad ill Europe. The time was so short, and the operations were all conducted with such activity, that it was impossible to look at the whole without admi ration. Throughout the whole of the businese, the troops had displayed signal instances of valour, as they always did when opportunity offered. But there was another feature in the conduct of tl:is expedition, which was highly creditable to t:ur,e who had the management of it, viz.—That the conquest had been accomplished without that in jury to the health of the troops which had usu ally attended West India service. But so careful had the officers been, that on this occasion the health of the troops had been as perfect as if they had never moved from their cantonments—indeed, as perfect as if the service had been effected in a more temperate climate. But this service had not only been accnm• plished in a manner the most meritorious in a military point of view ; it had been equally well conducted in evesy other light in which it could be regarded. No stipulation had been admitted which could preclude any regulations which his Majesty might sec fit to adopt with respect to the island ; and the inhabitants who had shown a goodwill to the British cause, had been treated with every possible kindness. I:.eciee thing, therefore, proved the claim of the Officers art Troops to the Thanks of the House. In every branett of the service the utmost zeal and activity had been displayed ; and the two services had acted togeth with that unanimity and cordiality which was the surest pledge of success. I - k concluded by movies the following Resolutions : Ist, That the Thanks of this House be given to Lieutena.!t- General George Beckwith, for his able and gallant conduct :‘t effecting the conquest of Martinique. 2d. That the Thanks of this House he given to Rear-Admit...l Sir Alexander Cochrane, K. B. for his able and meritorious dire. • tion of the naval force in effecting the conquest of Martinique. 3d. That the Thanks of the House be given to Lieuterun:- General Sir G. Prevost, to General Maitland, &c. &c. for th.t: gallant and meritorious services in effecting the conquest of unique. 4th. That the Thanks of the House he given to CommeduA- Cockburne, the Captains and Officers of the fleet, for their meri rious conduct in the same service. sth. That the House acknowledges the zeal and good conduct of the Non-commissioned Officers and a oldiers in etlectu.g the conquest. 6th. That this House acknowledges the good conduct cf th, Sailors and Marines in the same services. All these Resolutions were agreed to nvn. SPIRIT INTERCOVIViE COMMITTEE. The CHANCELLOR of t!ie EXCHEQUER, after observing that it would be proper to leave; a va cancy in the Spirit Intercourse Committee, for ti.e Chief Secretary for Ireland, moved, that Mr. Alder man Shaw, of Dublin, Mr. Alderman Shaw, of Loo. don, and Mr. Glassford, be added to the Committee. Ordered. INN-KEEPERS' BILL. The Innkeeper's Bill was read a third time. Mr. SHAW LEFEBVRE wished to bring up a clause enipmv• ering the House to alter or repeal the Bill in the present ses3i.,n, on which, after a short conversation between the SECR roar Jt WAR, Mr. SISIRoN, Sir G. VANSITTART, and Colonel WOOO, the House divided—Ayes ^ :3—Noes 49. MILITIA COMPLETION BILL. When strangers were admitted into the Gallery, Mr. G. VANSITTART was urging a delay in the committal of the Militia Completion Bill. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that it was of great importance that the Bill should pass soon. He could not agree to separate the Ballot from the Bill, although he hoped it would not be ne cessary to resort to it. He, however, assented to the postpone ment of the committal of the Bill till Tuesday. BANKRUPT LAWS AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion of Sir S. ROMILLY, the Bankrupt Laws Amendment Bill was committed. Some objections were made to tke clause with respect to the appointment of Assignees by Mr. lacon ; but the remedy which he professed to have in contem plation was not fully matured. Sit S. ROMILLY could not consider the alleiged immaturity of the projected plan any objection to the passing of the clauses of the present Bill, inasmuch as there would be always an oppor tunity for submitting the improvement, if improvement it was, to the consideration of the Legislature. The great evil which the present clauses went to redress was, the Assignees should not tat their own interested objects, hold in their own hands those sunis. of money which ought to be paid amongst the creditors of the estate. Mr. WILSON and the SOLICITOR-GENERAL declared their willingness to support the present clauses, as a temporary remedy to the evil which all admitted to exist, at the same tin. that at a future period they would support any plan of a inure improved efficacy. The MASTER of the ROLLS supported the clause as it originally stood. He thought that as an application to the lord Chancellor would at once remedy any of the evils apprehended, it would be better to let the clause stand as it did. The clause as it originally stood was then agreed to. Other amendments were then proposed and negatived, and the clauses having been gone through, and the blanks tilled tip, the Repatt was ordered to be received on Monday. Adjourned at halt past one/until Monday. I I 1 1