Star. — London, England, 1819-02-26 00:00:00

it AP- _ , breach of priv i lege on Wednesday, ~and end. It was not his opinion that the . prayer co( the Petition should Teursdar g uilty of liben c Z se tili . be granted, or even much dismissed ; but he wished that we theta_ therefo re , to-morrow , , the should break down by degrees that system of protecting duties, the , . • M em ber t h e which he Was convinced was productive of much evil. . Hon. f or dikharge of Mr The Petitiott was then read, add laid upon the table. WINDSOR errARLASM*IIWII- :, Mr. DUNDAS presentee two Petitions to the tiameellett; . Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the , Order from 4 :keettere - ei Lend In the Counties of Berl" and of that. Day for receiving the Report of the Conine._ -Theeglh he dill see'lleee with the prayer of these Petitions, r the iradeor Establishment. The Orderfif the. Day 'when its authors came forward in .a constitutional manner, e est:eight it his duty to 'resent them. Neither was it astonishing having been lead , Lordsh ip +moved that the Re- Wit theysksukt complain, if they found that they could aot pro- port be now received, duce wheat * the price at wh it ich was imported. It must also The Report was-th which was agreed to.. en brought up by Mr. BROG be recollected, *lt the employment of the poor dependedin a • great measure en the prosperity of farmers, who, by an in- DEN, add the different Resolutions read and put to crease of wages, could alone prevent them from Coming upon the vote. The two first were agreed t 6 without any the parish.-s e Laid ob the table. observation, but on the third being read, for grant • Mr. PANE presented similar Petitions from Occupiers of ing £lO,OOO a-year out of the Civil List to the Duke Land near Oxford and Henley upon Thames.—Laid on thetable. a York, as Curies Perrone, Mr. BENNET, in presenting a similar Petition freer', Occu- _ piers of Land in the County of Salop, stated that he was not Mr. t.:URWEN rose. He had been in hopes that sure of the expediency of the la* Corn BiU, and should cer- the House would have received another disclaimer saltily not conseet to any new experiment.—Laid on the table. from a certain quarter, more comprehensive than the Petitions to the same effect, front Occupiers of Land in the last, and which would have given universal satisfac- Counties of Montgomery, Denbigh, Essex, Cambridge, Wen inersland, Hereford, and Middlesex, were then presented by tion both to Parliament and to the country. It was Mr. WIMPS, Mr. WIDEEIMN, Sie A, HOPE, Sir J. SMOOCH?, and with deep regret he had been informed, in common Mr. Brato.—The Petitions were read and laid on the table. with the House, that his Royal Highness found more LIMERICK ELECTION. difficulty in taking the proposed allowance out of The Clerk of the Limerick Election reported that the Privy Purse, than from the people at large-- the following Members had been chosen by ballot to (Hear, hear).—He deprecated the discussion of such try the merits of that Election: a topic this night, but when it was pressed upon , Sir J. Staunton, Bart. Sir C. Mordsunt, Bart. Cuthbert EIS- him, it only remained to desert a sacred duty, or to' son. Esq. P. Price, Esq. W. Grifith, Esq. Lord Viscount Wey- over-rule his feelings. He was convinced that no mouth. Sir T. Baring, Bart. J. Walker, Ts ,7' B. a Gurney, economy v which would trench upon the comforts of Esq. the Earl of Easton, C. Palmer, Esq. J.. laberly, Esq. W. • ' Retell, Esq. N. Calvert, Est. and the Right lic). J. Barry. his Majesty would find a_ single supporter in the • The names of the defaulters on last Friday's ballot House, but fettunately the present question stood were then called over, and the defaulters ordered to completely apart from such considerations. It was attend the House at stated days. impossible to conceive that any sum of money tould -Met. GRADY. increase the care and tender attentions of the Custos Sir ROBERT WILSON stated that he held a Pe- towards his Royal Parent. Those were not to be tition from the person who had been committed last purchased, and would be most affectionately be night to Newgate for a breach of the privileges of the stowed without any remuneration. He (Mr. Cur- House. This person had applied to him to present wen) was executing a duty painful to his feelings, but his petition, and had in some measure established his it was necessary for him to compare the situation of claim upon him, by introducing into his petition a the Royal I)uke, as he now was, with what it was letter which he had in his possession three weeks. It intended to make him. Since his Royal Highness's was a letter written on the 2d of November last by return to the office of Commander-in Chief, his ser the Honourable Member for Limerick to Mr. Grady, vices in that capacity had certainly been beneficial and whit+ was now produced to spew chat no hos- to the country at large. But however useful that 'tile feeling existed in the mind of that Ilonourable office might be, still it was a new one, and imposed Member, even after he had received the communica. a heavy additional burden upon the country. It was tion which Mr. Grady denied having sent him. The one, however, the abolition of which heshould now letter was expressive of all those tine feelings which be the last to propose. But when he considered that Ire understood and believed were natural to the Ho. it yielded to his Royal Highness a revenue of A 5,000 nourable Member, but somewhat at variance with per annum, besides perquisites to a great amount— the tone of the reply which thnt4lonourable Mem- that his other emoluments from various situations her lead stated the other day that he'had sent to Mr. amounted to upwards of £lO,OOO a-year, and that kited?. The letter was now subjoined, and the Ho- he received in addition £ l / 4 20,000 yearly from the nourable Member would have it in his power to as- country, making, upon the whole, his revenue nearly certain,tvhether it was his own or not. With respect equal to £60,000, he could nit conceive that he la to the petition s , he should confine himself, as he had boured under any deficiency of income, or that it was done yesterdaf to the narrative of the petitioner him. necessary to add to it. The country had a fair right self. He stated that he had been sent to Newgate to expect that no such augmentation should be made. for a breach of privilege, of which he humbly sub- Now with respect to the situation of the Custos, what mitred there was no sufficient proof before the House. expense would it entail upon his Royal Highness ? The letter which he was charged with having written He (Mr. Curwen) knew of no other than that of post had neither post-mark nor envelope, and did not once ing twice a week from London to Windsor, and back contain the name of the Honourable Member to again. Supposing ..it to amount to £5OO, or even whom it had been taken to have been directed. That £l,OOO a-year, which was certainly the outside, he letter he supposed to have been ant 'about the middle would consider it an offence to propose a remunera of October, and on the 17th of November he had re- tion to his Royal Highness for so trifling an expendi ceivgl one from the Honourable Member, dated No- ture. But other charges had been mentioned. What itemiser 2, which no one could conceive to be an an- were they ? Something hid been stated about fees, s.wer tQ so offensive a communication as that which and objects of generosity ; .but all fluisesiere to be he was accused of having made. That letter was Paid out of a different fund. There was no expense, dated Adair, November 2, 1818, and was to the fol- he must contend, to be incurred by his Royal High lowing effect: ness, but the small posting account which he had " I stand so perfectly clear of the charges intended to b e mentioned, and for which his Royal Highness would brought against me that I shall cheerfully commit myself to the not certainly require that an addition should be made judgment of the House of Commons. You say that I have to the burthens of 'the country. There was no man given you mortal offence; I im sorry to hear it, for nothing was Who did not further from my mind, and if I knew when I did so, I should witill that economy should be introduced have great pleasure in repairing -my wrong. Some loa3 and into every branch where it was practicable. But angry letters have pawed between us; but I did not begin the when the Noble Lord opposite had said that the correspondence. I could not forget that you had been very kind House was disposed to bear hard on any grant pro to me u t early life, and could not see without regret so ancient osed for the Royal Family, he ought to have recol an intimacy on the eve of being parted . " The writer then con - P chided, by subscribing himself, " your's truly." lected with what feeling the House had last year Mr. Grady stated besides that he had received other measured those grants, which might be called nig friendly lettere subsequent to the foregoing, and did gardly, but which had been reduced in order not to not recollect receiving one of the offensive nature diminish, but t o preserve in their integrity, the love which the Honourable Member had last night men- and veneration of the people for the family of their dosed. To all these statements the petitioner was Sovereign. It was impossible not to confess that 'ready to add the sanctity of an oath, and thus to ex- those reiterated applications for money had given pose Himself to a prosecution for perjury, if they general offence to the country--(Hear, hear)—and turned out to be false. He submitted also that if he he was determined not to vote one shilling of remu were not allowed to assist his son, in the approaching neration for the Custos, fully persuaded that the du inquiry, the public interest might suffer. DesCending ties of that office would be as tenderly and as effec then to secondary considerations, he urged that he tively performed by his Royal Highness without, as was labouring under a severe illness. He also sub- with the grant proposed. He should therefore take nutted to the House that he might have retired be- the sense of' the House on the present Resolution. fore an order had been made out for his committal ; Mr. ROBINSON concurred with the Honourable but he had patiently awaited its decision, and trusted Gentleman in one point. He would agree •to keep for relief to its generosity and justice. The Hon. the services of his Royal Highness as Commander- Member then moved that the petition be brought up. in-Chief out of sight, but then he would require the Mr. WYNDHAM QUIN had no hesitation in salary which he received for their performance to be avowing the letter which had been read, as his own, also left out of the question. No person could be and he did not think any breast in the House would more willing to make a sacrifice for' the benefit of consider that it contained any sentiment for whichhe the public than the Duke of York ; and the proof of need to blush—(Hear, hear,*hear). He owned that this was, that he was now discharging the duties of be had not considered Mr. Grady to be serious when the office of Custos without knowing whether Parlia he had first intimated the charge on which he would ment would make any allowance for the heavy ex call for a Parliamentary Inquiry. He owned too ceases incident to it—(ffear, hear). —The Rig ht Hon. that lie had answered Mr. Grady's letters with more Gentleman talked of this discussion h av i ng been &- mildness than they deserved, but he did not wish that truded upon the House, and alluded to the discus the act of'the father should be visited on the sod, and sions which had taken place last year on the grants he felt that Mr. Grady had been kind to him is early proposed for the Royal Family. But he begged the life, which he was still desirous not to forget: After House to recollect, that the objection to the votes writing the letter which had been read, he had r e. proposed last Session.was to the amount, and not to ceived another of a different nature. It was then the principle; whereas theubjections to the vote now that he had written that which had been read yester- in question was nut to the amount, but to the princi day, end with which he had closed the correspon- ple—( flews hear).—This was a substantial distinct- deuce. As to the prayer which the petition put forth tion between the vote proposed now and those which f or indulgence, there was no one M em be r iii the had been brought forward last Session. On the whole H ouse w ho prayed more fervently for indulgence to question, heswas convinced that the House would •Mr. Grady than he did—(Hear, hear, hear). . feel that the sum now proposed was only Inch es was The petition was then read, and on Sir R. %ewes necessary to enable his Royal Highneseto mod the motion, ordered to lie on the table, and to be pri n ted. extraordinary expenses incideld to the office—that • Mr. HUTCHINSON, after paying a warm tribute they would feel that the sum which was fixed in 1812, o f peaise to the conduct of the honourable Member on an inquiry into,thiamotnit of the expenses, must for Limerick, which had been so creditable to him be no more than was strictly proper, and such as the bot h yes te r day and this night, expressed his intention , House ought to allow, considering' the great corrati of me eing,to-morrow, that Mr. Grady be discharged tutional importance of the office, and Of the duties from N thich were now imposed on hisitoyal Highness the Mr. W e Ol t t AHAM BOOTLE considered the first Duke of Yor k—( Hear, hear). p ar t of Mr. Grady's petition as arraigning the sen- Mr. DENMAN said, it was with'unaffected ditE met of the House, which it represented as has ing dense that he offered himself to the attention of Ike been passed without sufficient evidence. He called House at this time, when he was aware there Mkt . be so many persons of rank and conside r ation d ea l= which the Clerk to read again that part of the petition, orhich having . been done, the Honourable Member runs of stating their sentiments on this most im port ..1,..p0t that it wax too much to propose on Friday taut question. He could n ot h e lp thinking that, not: to d isc harge a man who had been committed for a withstanding the vote to which'the Mann' had.tomi upon a question tonnectal with the, that they could .not beitsinced to Motion. He could not but-think who had voted against the amend- Honourable Friend, had felt great point r i o n f d el l aw which law la V o s n the subject in was so clear and precise, that it was reduced to the meaning of some one clause of a statute, was SQ plain that it required a sort of perverse ingenuity to dis pute it, then it was very ssrprising that the Noble Lord opposite should have had recoufse to that most extraordinary language by which he endeavoured to. intimidate the House, and to, persuade them, that if' they disagreed from his construction of it ahey- would cover themselves with infamy—( Hear, hear.) Nor could he understand in that case why the Honourable Member for Oxford (Mr. Peel) should have thought it necessary to adopt a strain not so much calculated to convince the understanding of the House, as to seduce thefts by an appeal to their passions. But whatever doubts might be entertained by others, he was quite sure that the Royal Duke who was impli cated in this question was quite satisfied that there was nothing in point of law to prevent the privy purse from being liable to pay the expenses incident to the important office of Custos Personae of the King. If this was not the feeling of the Royal Duke, what could be thought of the Message which had been brought down to the House? It would be as if his Royal Highness had said to them—" I warn you not to commit a robbery, or if you do commit it I shall not be your accomplice"—(Hear, hear.) But be could not take that Message in any such sense. The only fair construction to be put upon it was, that it pro- 1 ceeded from a conviction on the mind'of his Royal Highness that the expenses could lawfully be charged on the privy purse; and in that view the Message must be construed as meaning—. I am aware, that you have a right to charge the sum upon the privy purse; but as a matter of delicacy, I wish you not to. consider me as personally implicated, and not to al low your decision to be influenced by regarding any thing but the mere duties of the office." Some Mem bers, however, had taken a very different view of the subject, and argued it on very different' grounds, The Honourable Member for Oxford had thought it necessary to take a very extensive view of all the Acts of Parliament. connected with the subject; and after making a sort of sentimental journey (Laughter) through the various statutes, descanting upon each, and finding that the preamble of the Act in which ale sum now in question was first voted, vi'as one of the most elegant and affecting compositions in the language—(llear, hear, hear!) But he was far from thinking the it was not an interesting and affecting spectacle to see large sums of money voted to the Royal Family—to see a people still labouring under the burdens of a most expensive'war, oppressed with enormous taxes, carrying their hard earnings to the foot of the throne, as a proof of their-loyalty and at tachment—(Hear, hear ' hear!) But it was too mu c h to find that those -munificent proofs of loyalty which had been given by the people in prosperous times, should be tuned into an argument in favour of such a vote as was now proposed, or that it should be urged on the ground that it was necessary, to enable a son to perform the most sacred of all duties to an aged 'and afflicted father—(Hear, hear,' hear!) If it was agreed to on the grounds on which it was pressed on the House, the preamble of the Act should be— . That whereas it bad pleased ALmtoury GOD to visit his Majesty with a severe indisposition ; and whereas on former occasions, and under a prosperous state of the finances, Parliament had voted large sums to the Royal Family in testimony of their loyalty and attachment; and whereas the people were now, in the time of peace, labouring under the burden of heavy taxes, which had been imposed to maintain the war; it was therefore expedient that the sum of £lO,OOO should be now granted;' &c.-( Hear, hear, hear 1)1 What were the duties which the Duke of York was' called upon to discharge? Was he called upon to perform a single duty beyond that which every son was bound to render, under such circumstances?—, The only, argument worth notice which had been ad vanced in favour of the Motion was, that in 1812, when the duties of the office of Custos were regula ted, a similar sum had been voted to her late Ma jesty. As to the sum then voted, he could only say, that he thought his Right Honourable Friend (Mi'. Tierney) had done himself great honour in opposing it; yet the House, in spite of that opposition, had agreed to vote that sum, not on general grounds, but on account of the peculiar circumstances of her Ma jesty's situation. It was then considered too that we were involved in a great and expensive war, which was supported by extraordinary exertions, and at such an extraordinary expense, that among the im mense sums which It was then necessary to provide for the public expenditure, the sum of £lO,OOO for her Majesty Was a perfect trifle—mere dust in the scale. But these considerations would not now avail. The exertions were now over, the war was at an end, and the reckoning was to be paid. • But the House was told, that the duties imposed by this office were of a high constitutional and public nature. As to this, he must say it was strange they had never heard any thing about the duties till the vote was proposed.-- Some particulars of these duties had, however, now been disclosed. It seemed there was a Council to at tend. Now really it would appear that if this Council were necessary, any salary to be allowed ought to be bestowed upon them--(Hear)---for they were the legal, proper, and constitutional advisers of the CSIS tos. But if it appeared that on the furmpr occasion the House of Commons had been betrayed into the measure, which could be supported on no just ground, and of which the continuance was not j'bstified by any public reason, this was the time when it should be positively resisted,, Me was very far from thinking! that the question now before the House was involved in that discussed and decided the other night. As to the latter, hi agreed with the Noble Lord opposite, that any man who entertained, a doubt as to the tharging the expenses on the Privy Purse, ought to have voted against the amendment of hi: Right Hon. Friend. If there was any doubt on that question, it was ttaiaon enough,why the_Parlianient ought do; to in. liutthequestion now before them was left iimite °kin: Sidle did not feel that he had any right anticrpatelont any Wilber would vote• upon it front the vote which hei had given owthe other. It remot one which could be represented as, a sPolia , skim Prier Puns, attempted by those pro& iMspagadoetnitheltad so little weight or'cuissi- mad who, on the olheresieht upo House. He , presentbsubjeci, tha me motion of arrest° the pfesent 4r. Gridy.: 4 l thserinaty of those N . %aunt of his Right Order of the4subt as to the porn ;committee on %se decision. Or if M ~' r~.r ~ T ~__ Aeration in the country that they mad e t h at attati principles which would subvert all the rights of , petty - (Hear, hear, hear.)—And this for soma as and sordid advantage, for that was the ss7ayi!, it was described—(hcar).—He thought the bar for Bristol (Mr. Protheroe) right wh en t le that it was unpopular to oppose the grant of so „:. a sum, and that men who wished to gain in me polarity at the expense of public princiFle,r:,;;;d*: best by speaking in favour of such grants. H, Gentleman (Mt% Martin) had said, that he that if he addressed the mob from the HI:7;: n :, Covent Garden, they would agree at once t , , grant. But those who maintained the free the country,-without courting favour, oy the influence of Crown or mob, mu:t otpoie was a trite story, but a true one, that the- revenue: year had fallen short of the expenditure !.1.401. It had been very justly matter of congratnlati or ,, - the Revenue was now materially improved. most sanguine expectations, however, had s ea , gone so far as to recl:on that the income of th eco try would he less thii year than - 4., - „000,000 the expenditure. But even supposing • Our tin were in such a situation that both ends met, i t , to be considered that we were now in the of peace—that many most oppressive a.td taxes which had been imposed to carry on t;.e still continued. • The whole country •was oppre si , by these impolitic impositions ; and mane of t: 1 such as the ad valorem Stamp Duties, the Lep Duty, &c. were of such a .nasure as to cramp t! :e • dustry of the nation. •In this situation. the H. ought to consider well on what grounds they a . called upon to vote away any sum of the p u as money. It sva.; true the present sum was small,i ) for the sake of principle, a stand must smewhere• made. He could not but think that if his NI.1;e : : had foreseen the calamity which had follea:,:, him, and the lcry of the country so dearly pre•7. ed by the burthens on the people, that he w0u1d...i7 been the first to wish that those V4O had so nz:.1;a::. cendy dealt with him and his family underrrs, prosperous circumstances, should, above all, Se sp ed while loaded with the burdens that now °pp m , diem. As for the grounds on which the Vote been prtssed, he thought the Noble Lord e i pe s i would have much, better consulted the dignity et" character, if he had spared the language used in the last debate on the subject. The Hou-e rzu• not be deceived. If they were to go on pilin, e, pence upon expense in the time of peace, the con. quences must be fatal to the country. It duty of the House of Commons to act with t!,:r,: - .t on this occasion—to sustain their character wiLlt!. nation—to protect the Royal Family from the e7,;:a vagancitss c f the present Administration—(heuf, - Mr. PEEL, as he had been very pointedly to by the Honourable Member who just sat dewl begged to be indulged with asvery few werdi, is notice of the Honourable and Learned Gentlemadi extemporaneous effusion—( Hear, cud laugher; That Honourable Member, however, must recoil , that it was not every o ne w h o h a d t h e a d vantage , three days to make a reply--(LaNg/iter). The H. Gentleman quarrelled with his reference to the A of Parliament on this subject, and had talked of (Mr. Peel%) making a sort of sentimental jos . through the Statute Book. Now, he conld.only sal that it it were to be called a journey, it was one whi.. , he had made in company with some of the Honoc: , able Member's friends, to whom he referred hini 'baying led the way—(Laughter). But it seemed even the lion. Member himself had not thou-'i. t . • • journey unpleasant, as ke had gone some part cf . & sail* way and treated the House with a freaini.le his own . --(Laseeder and cheering). Mr. BARNET said, he had voted for the Amend meat of the Right Hcn. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) Monday last ; but he had done so on the express co demanding that some grant would be made. If tl House imposed the duties of this office on the Duk of York, he did not see on what principle of justice he could be.expected to undertake the performance of them unless the expel:Nes to which he was thereby ' exposed were made good by such a grant as tha: now proposed. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Denman) talked of votes given for the mike of popularity: be could only say, that whether the vote which he gave the other night was popular or not, at least on prin ciple he could not vote against the motion now pm posed. . Ten thousand pounds, in his opinion, was as little as could be granted to defray the expenses of the office of Custos. Mr. MARTIN, of Galway, said he had but one sentence to utter in. explanation. He did not, in the few words ke had addressed to the Committee, men to say he could persuade the mob to vote :or this tato tion, but that if he addressed from the Hustings the people of London--the Nobility (Lena/del), the Clergy, and the Gentry --sot the ragged multknat mentioned by the •Honourable Gentlern.,n—he ws sure they would agree to the vote. On that ple could the House impose duties atte.xled heavy expenses, without granting money to deuces them ?—{Hear, hear.) He would pig it to the Hon. Member himself (Mr. Denman) whether if among musty parchments (Laughter) he found any thin; which entitled.him t o a d ormant P eerage . a nd tea it for the opinion of one of the Law Officers of ea ; Crown, offering them the remuneration ustr.:l in profession, if he should say-- ,, Don't give me ote farthing —(Laughter}--I can't think of ta;ing a s:r.i.'ff sixpence as a compensation for my labour."—AfT ter.) Would not the Honourable Gcntlernan say— " I insist upon paying that which is justly due :cc your services to me, and that to which anv cane_ member of the profession would be fairly entitled?" (Laughter.) This case was quite analcrus to that of the Duke of York.—(Laughter.) Mr. BERNALL said he was not one of those wi's would consult the feelings of a mob on this Cr am other subject. But if it were intended that the House should now give a proof of the sincerity of pre fession, they ought to refuse the vote now propotec 4 -, He referred to the preamble of the Act of the s::d of the King, which stated that the ,C 10,00) was granted to enable her late Majesty to incur ditkuaal expenses to which she would be subjected b!: the office. lint-no proof had been given or offered. to sbew that the Duke of York would be subjecsodr . Duke of York sikaid bed into any such additional expenses, it wasodige srega s thatssw of this House, on so maple:sant an occasion : and beau this-from the shkets attachment he bore to his Royal Highness. He thought be gave a proof ohs loyalty -4 1 • \ 1 I . ; i I ' t • i