Star. — London, England, 1804-02-09 00:00:00

Pee tan be made. Had the opinion, however, bees different, it was my intention that all Voltiateers &woad have a right. to withdraw temfelves from their afoctatious, when not called ou t into aftual *ice. The great difference betwizt the indent Va. lamer Cy&em and that of lall war only amounts to rtis that when an attack is atlually made. or any c.dallian waited, that all the Volunteers thotild be liable and bound to he called out according to theii terms of ferviee. I think it is not politic to do other. becaufe when men find themfelves in a date of' , amnion, they become upeafy and unwilling. On the other hand, I am of opinion, that any coercion would be tinnece(fery, becaufe I am perfally per.l leaded that, among loch a number of Volunteers. be the maths either extremely good or extremely bad. which may induce Come to withdraw from that fpe ties of ferrite into which they fir!) entered, the zeal. the energy, and the fixed .detersnination which in. duces; them to come forth voluntarily in the defence of their country, will • kill' ciantippe, with the fame fora, is *cheat of danger. , 4 would he perfeftly. incredible , tadadmod immffibleaoluppote, that filch a high degree of enthufiaßic pafriotifm and public fpirit &mkt aba ndo n fuck a great mats of men, fo as to prlvent_thern imps. Rill oppofing, with the fame energy. that titlark's:lolcm with which our enemy is Rill threatening tts. I ',know pettedly convinad, that the only, ciectasilince which could poffibly create atteafisafs in their mindi was the Rate of co treat+ in a tints , of quiet, which they imagined them- Alves Odle& to, and which it is necelliry &mild now be mete particularly and clearly fpecified. Having . thos lat.d one difference between the prefentvol awn . *flout, toad that of lift war, I shall now Rate anotheerer, which I coati? , material. The prefent Volunt Maas is foonded on the Defence Aft ; that is, we .accept of the Volunteers, becaufe we have judged them to be the tuna eligible for the prefent defeace Oda country. It srasbacanfe it behoved the coon ' try to be defended immediately, that fueb a Plathe ca was adopted. His Majefty is empnwered (by A& to which I allude) to call out all his fubjelts for the general defence ; and failing in one fyitern, ano ther maylse retorted to. I (hall now take notice of banthercircestanarefasefting theVolontecrs,tithich, at this time. is not fufficiendy adverted to. It has bast Rated, that the exemptions are extremely estrous and bardenforne, ink ular diftri&s, an us the Militia. With *g the Militia. may otsferve, that no Member of a Volunteer Carps is enumted from the ballot; and be is only mmapted from watt fervice in the Militia Co long; as be amtinoes .a Volunteer. The moment he' Withdraws he is fabjefl to fete, in order to fill! Ra vacancy, or even as a fopernatterary. MO altonithed that this part of the law has not bean fafficiesdy adverted to in many intlances iaj Hoak. those it is oar ditty to wake the law is airy cafe, as plan and inutligible as polfible.— l With rerdtertbe army of Rl:terve, they are placed la a di&ant Rooting. for they are certainly totally =o teill re flo tbat . fpe i cies of ferrite. Haying thus , 'Reads* of Vo=wisti; &all now relative toadir th at e to' ;e l Iffithet Mid isettawatiesces of the fyllent. I mai firth promife,that that of there relate to the Vplan. Wars Wham ia their inattive Rate; —foe when once Say ore caSell eat to aftual ferrite, very little of the bottassimeeseomplaiaed of (fuck as their hold. Gmamittailit will any longer exit. One delta i‘that tbefylltar.beagis its nature entirely volt's. Wary. it rts lapsable to erpe& that Military difci.l afiereaa be tarried• to lab ua eaten as in other ^taifel.luad esaarodstreireentiancrs, it might be pm *gale le earrOt ; and 'I thinithat that matigrofily laißaltes the fibjeff, if he conceives that the Voltm eter fylleas can It all viewed 'in the fame light or attempted to be pat on thefame footing, with doe s~w tax army. I conceive that a great part of this' l , 'on has originated .froth a natural deftre antstalf . the Vedunteer Officers to bring their mat 'Reward as quickly, and to as great a degree of per. ',tales is difeipliae as poffible ; they have been ex itance even by Government to do fo t but I (hall not wafture to fay, that when Volunteers are advanced • OA certain Rage of dilcipline, it would be confident with prudence to endeavour to exert too great a de. wree offtriatneb a to their continuing their perfonal Itunidance on alt necation• It would, no doubt, 'beitighly improper to attempt to take met. from is* ovgnavy and aecellary occupations, during a leaser period than what may be really thought (of 11rion to qualify them for military exertions. in the manner it is intended they Otould be employed. By antatiptrn * g to do In the whole fyftern might aaually the eadangered. efpecially in particular commercial , ffißriets. The neat inconvenience dated to belong 'lO liist Volunteer fyßem, is that of each particular C o rps having a Committee, by which important I \matters are determined. Fr om any inquiries I have I wade no this fubjeitt. I find that only Come particular Corps have formed inch Committee, sad only with .the inteatioa of attending to and managing their pecuniary concerns. Now let us attend to the na ture of this (Otero, and recolleft in how many in. Rance: the expences of individuals have been defrayed by :hemfclves. I. it then to be wondered at, that filch corps lb iuld have adopted fume meafures for the prudent management of their refpeeive funds ? Ruch a method WS, adapted uring !aft wa, as well as the relent one. I do, hdowever, admi r t, that in foga few cafes there may have been fame attempts to interfere with military masters and dikipline, which belonged not to fuch Committees. Such prettier', however, I *mild not indulge nor approve of. Ido fay, without he:nation, that fuck a praftice &mold be put a Rap to, and that no committee whatever thould be allowed to interfere with the military coin. stand on fithordination of any Corps of Volunteers This evil, however. conll not whenever Vo. lawyer Carps are called out into actual aBua l fervice, *hen they will be put nu ply in the tune mar.ner as the regular army. The nest point to which I ihould adsert, is the eleetion of officers. I (Could beg she Houle to remember, that there is a great difference 40 be obferved betwixt the eteBion of officers on the Aril ellablinimeni of fuch Corps, and afterwards to the mode of filling up vacancies which may oc cafionzlly arife in the cnurfe of their coorinusaffle. —Any obferver will think that it is extremely natural, that men of Erich a defcription fhould be c remnai.ded by Gentlemen whom they re. fpca and revere, eipecially thole carps which hasarc railed is large populous Caitls ZSIt how • Parliament k aaedt The A& Val allows an aeon to be cleat* except tech as are comndflowaik by his MiljeltY, being fir* "'cannonaded by the Lead- Lieutenants Of comities. There is nothing in the law or preatie on which an y corps can found their claim of eleaing their own officers, or which can give Inch a claim any validity. The Hon. Gentle man opprifite to me feerns to differ in opinion, and I am the more concerned. as I entertain the Mete& refried for any fetuirnent of his upon the fuhjea.— ( Here Mr. Sheridan bowed.) —It has indeed hap pened in feveral Volunteer Corps, that the com manding officer Rates the vacancy to the Lord Li e stenam, hod recommends f ame per ; and if the Lord Lieutenant knows any thing to the difad vantage of that individual, be declines fending in his DOOM On the other hand, if lit thinks the perfon properhe does Co; Co that in faa the claim amounts to nothing ; and it was never in the contemplation of Parliament, that any fuck claim mould be at all attended to. Having Rated what I think are the law and praftice on the fobjea, it appears if fuck a claim could pdffibly be fen up. it would be extremely dan gerous, and one that ought not to be allowed on any account; fo much In, that I do not heltate to fay, that if any corps fhonld think fit to infift on filch rights, I mould imagine it prudent to adrift his liojefty to decline and difeontinue the Cervices of filch corps altogether ; for whatever might have been coa- I nived at. at the commencement of their inflituticrn. it would be found dangerous to encourage its conti nuance. There may, indeed. be Rime of the old corps who, by exprefs persiffson, or long predict, have ezercifed filch a privilege, which had called during lag war. I fliould think it advifable, fo far, to admit fuch a deviation front the general rule. I ant lorry thus to detain the Houfe cola% (a cry of hear! 'bear!) but as In many improper obiervations, and fo many tnifreprefentations have adtually gone abroad relative to this fubjea, I hope I (hall be pardoned for taking up the time of the Houfe in making the necerary esplanations on fuch an im portant matter, on which fo great a (hare of the defence of oar country depends. Another defea is raid to be, that there are no efficacious means of enforcing a regular attendance, or even a pro. priety of evaded, on all occafions. It is perfealy true, that as the law now Rands, that this cannot be fixed but by one of two ways. It is alto per fectly clear. that in cafe of repeated nested, it is left in the power of the Commanding Officer to dif charge and difmifs any individual Col s tra Rinfgcreffing from the corps; and , in confequence of h dif. might, be becomes liable to one of the Bills for the Army of Referee , or the Militia. No perfon is entitled to exemption, unlefs he attend a entails bom ber of days. It is fad, that a ftrooget maitre is required. in order to enforce attendance. lam much inclined to doubt this; it did not make a part of the fyftern daring lag war. If a member does not attend he mud be dilmitfed; and when difmiffed, he is ft. (laced to the fi tuation of an ; other fubjeit not /err ing as a Volunteer Corps, and liable to the per formance of the fame dunes.. I have thus Rated pretty fairly what I conceive to be the real defeas and incooveniencies to which Volunteer Corps may be Paid to be liable. Some of them will thus appear AO be taherent inn the fyitass, and others are capable of remedy; but the qoeftion is, whether it is not molt aoirtfante so tads: stsia fyilisen, with all its de leas sad insoneeniences with all the objeaioas which can porddy be Rated againft it, rather than to retort to other method*. pahaps liable to greater. In the prefent fituation of the country, thofe are the wired men who adopt the leaft dangeronsi the MA expeditious, and moll effoltaal Wiens of defence. In my opinion, we ought to improve this fyllan as far as puffible, and adhere as much as poffible to the fitaa nos in which it sow stands. Wherever an inconee. niency is thought to ezift. let vs introduce fomething in the place of it ; but let us not endeavour to do too mach, or to deka, or injure the Often% in any degree. In the first place. I think the power which is already invented in his Majefty,to exercife his pre 'rogative, u well as by the flame law, is fufficient to remedy moft of thofe evils. His Majefty has finely the power to make fuch rules and regulations VA he mall think proper. He may difmifs any par. titular •member or officer of a Corps, or he may difband the whole corps. He has silo the power to refort to the Defence Aa, and may order out the fief, teasel, or third clafs of his fubas. to tie trained ; and he may order any. of tho le elaffes to aaual fervice, in cafe of necaffity i—or, if the Vo. lunteers are not thought fut fi cient, the Levy-en. Mare Aa may be brought into force, in order to fill up all vacancizs. Under there circumftances, it ap .pears to me, that with n moderate exercife of his Majetly's pc* ogative and the power of the Crown, there inconveniencies may be tally got the better of : becaufe, whenever it appears that thole claims arc let up, which it was not intended by the Legifla cure that Inch corps mould poffef... his Majefty may 441 as he pleafes ; and if a corps pet fill in exercifing unlawful powers, they may be called forth into the general malt. In the fame manner, in regard to the eleaion of Officers, it appears to me, that whoever 'oat claim has been let 'Torben not warranted by law or exprefs permiffion of his hlajefty, and that Inch corps have been informed of their being in an error, no fuch recommendation fhould be attended to, I • fhould even fay that fuch corps fhould be d•lbanded. I do not think, therefore, that the ;ate, ference of Par liament becomes aeceffary upon theft points; becaufe -I conceive inch interpofition to be Coperfluous in every cafe where lids blajelly has fo evidently fuffi eient•powers to die :Nate the purpofe intended. The interpolition of Parliament only becomes =calory in the prelim cafe; Sift, in order to confolidate the leveret Aas which have been already palled on this fuhjea, both for the fake of making them more clear and intelligible, and .confequently the more eafy in their regular oisfervance ; and for the purpofe of the exemptions in a different manner. —"Pie exemption from the Militia is acquired by Volunteers, in confequence of a regular attendance during only five Jays in the ye ir, and the returns for this purpof. are annual. As to the exemption from the Army of Referee, a regular attendance of 24 days becomes neceffary, and the returns are made three times in the year. I think it would be prefer• able to place %bele exemptions upon one and the fame footing, and to adopt the attendance which is reciir;• fire for the Army of Receive; it being left perfe • in the option of every one to withdraw prewiio.. i• the paff.a4 of this Act, knowing that they fh t.. . be tiF ballots. Las (ball he meta to made sot fuch members Is do fo refign, on giving due 'wince to the Commanding Officer, whole we it mill* to fill up the vacancies thereby occafrosed.— No exemption from Ceram (hall then allowed to any refigning member. I thotild propof be e that return. fhould be made at the fame times, during the year, of the afloat tide and condition of every corps ; cake being taken to mention if a corps has been properly and completely furnifhed with arms, at the bottom of each return, in order to regulate the exemptions of claimed by indi viduals, who may Rate the want arms as an excufe for non attendance. It was my intention to mention, before the decifion of the Court of King's Bench, that all perfons fhould be entitled to withdraw themfelves previous to aaual invafion, and that they fhould give notice in writing to their Commanding Officer ; and in cafe of their having been provided with arms, accoutrements, or any article of cloathing, by . Government, they ffiould deliver op fuch articles in as good a Rate as poi lible. I lhould think it neceifary to coiled, and explain more particularly, all thofe deuces which relate to Volunteers when called out to afttffil 16 ,1 vice; although I think the matter, as it (lands, per. fealy clear at prefent. When an aaual invafion happens, or when a rebellion of any kind occurs, all I, perfons enrolled as Volunteers (hall be liable to march. Thefe are, I think, the moll material points which it may be neceffary at prefent to illaßrate and here I (hall obferve, that Gentlemen may have been pointed, that the Bill I have now propofed, fhould contain nothing very novel or rigorous in regard to. this fyftem of defence ; but on due eonfideration of the confequences. I am perfuaded that they will fee the propriety of making no further-encroachments on the plan. Some conffidetable inconvenience has been found to arife, in many counties, in confequence d the Lord Lieutenant'. not having the power to throw the greaten burden of the Militia and Army of Re ferve on chore countie s which have not produced a proportionate number of Volunteers, when com pared with the population of other counties. — That is a point which I have thought proper to ad vert to, by making Come regulations concerning it.— Thde are the leading points which 1 have judged it expedient to enter upon in framin g this Bill, relative to our Cynem of voluntary defence , and I (hall only further obferve, that if fuch intended regula tions as I have propofed are to give rife to any de bate, or different opinions, the molt proper time for Rating them will be when the Bill is brought in, and at the fire or fecund reading I hope that loch a , Cubic& will be difeulTed in this Houle with temper and moderation,becoming fuch important and effica, cious meafures. lam perfuaded that the Volunteeta themfelves will fee the necdfity of adhering to thofe principles, and to thole rules, which they of them felves voluntarily undertook to abide by at the commencement of the war, when the &nation . of public affairs was critical indeed ; hot not more cri tical than at the prefent moment. Let them cons pore the Rate in which we now Rand, in regard t o o our molt i nvet erate enemy. with that of the perio when they grit called forth their utmoft energy and exertion (I mean the months of iolugu(t and Rev tember lA, when the Volunteer lyftsm became general throughout the country) ; and I ha verso doubt that every man who then valued his property, who had a regard for his wife, his family, or even hi. very existence itfelf ; or, who then entertained a jolt fenfe of regard for his native eouutry, will Rill fee the propriety and neceflity of encouraging yet further fuch manly and patriotic fentiments. He who thought that the adoption of fuch means wee neceffary at the outlet of this war, will, I doubt not, (Lill advert, that every thing which is dear to him may yet be in as great, if not in an increafed degree of linger, in proportion to the fpace which has been allowed our relentlefs enemy, to prepare for our threatened deßrnfition. I am convinced, that the Volunteers of this country will a& fully up to the important trtttt which has been repofed in them by their molt gracious Sovereign; and whatever may be the trifling inconveniencies which fume indivi duals may imagine they Coffer, fetch. I war will all be overlooked in the hour of danger;—and even thofe who may have thought proper to withdraw their Voluntary Cervices for their own particular rearms, will Rill come forth with the fame alacrity , and join their countrymen in the defence of the king dom. Having now finned the obfervations which I thought it incumbent upon me to make, previous to the introduffion of 'Li. Bill, I (hall now con:lude b moving. that " leave be given to hting in a Bill to e y xplain, amend, and confolidate, the prnoifions con tained in the feveral Afts relative to the Yeoinanry and Volunteer Corps throughout the United King- dom." Mr. SHERIDAN role to make a few oblavrions not for the purpofe of entering into the debate, at length upon the queflion. But the Right Huts. Gentleman had taken notice of an apparent diet- fence of fentiment on his part, with refpce to Tome of the opinions be had advanced, particuiarly on the. fubjea of the right of choofing Officers. He per feAly agreed with the Right Hon. the Secretary of State, that the Corps had no right to eleA their Officers, though he certainly confidercd their re— commendation to be of the higheft importance e but he had underftood the Right Hon. Gentleman . at the fame time to fay, that the recommendation of the Corps would not be attended to. Now. where notild the appointment of the Officers originate ? If they do not originate with the Crown, finm what quarter Nould they originate ? Not furcly from the Lord Lieutenant, or from the Cornmanr!ing Officer. but from the recommendation of the Corps. The Right Hon. Gentleman had tsbferved, that if impro per perfcrns were recommended, he &mild advife leis lstajeny to refute to grant them commidions t donbtedly, the Right Win. Gentleman would aft with perfea propriety in doing to. But in the oti. gioal cosltitution of the Corpr,the Secretary t.' ate conlidered that they wish, recommend their °lncas.- if In, it was certainly nceeffsry •• 1 keep Melly good faith with thi '4. or the greaten mifchisfs might Le produced. It the Cot ps had the power. in the inflance, of recommending their Officers, why (broad they ceafe to retain that power of rmom• men.Lation, for the purpofe of filling up the sa comics that might be occafioned by refignatinns or dc Ass? a right of recommendation which, he con. idered, remained with them, for any thing he could .ec or hear to the contrary, jug the fame as in the hilt influx& Surely no kind of policy, no futt of pritsliple couhl be isewn for the refufal of the reeve. nen of this right. But whence, if she corps ire If has not ibis power in its hands, dues the Colonel de- i 4 rive it l He would not, in the prefent ilate of thi: hu flue's, enter farther into the fubjed; but of all thing , , it was moll important and molt neceffary to tee,'faith with the - Volun teers in ever y refpea. Whether the Corps, or the Colonel, or the Lord Lieutenants or any body else. recommended the Officers, it molt . be under the fame prec ise refit-jai:ln with refped to the approbation of the Crown to procure the Cons miffion. He thould jai name, before he fat down; an ;cadence of one Corps (the Bedford Volunteers) . who. on their formation, had expreGly ref.-. ved to themfelves the pewee of recommending their owe Officers ~,on all occaficins. He would not e however. as he had before laid, enter any farther into tilt quellion at prefent. Lord CASTLEREAGH thought the Hon. Gen; tleman had, in fome degree, rnifunderßond his Right; Hon. Friend on the particular rubjed alluded to, an& that he had like wife fallen into foam error throe' b 5 .Momentary want of recolleftion of the difference pointed out by the Secretary of State between the origination of the Corps; and their fuhfequent Matte that is to fax, between their formation and their condition • after they affumed the fliapeof a military body. Certainly,. while they were not a military body, they did not, in any refpe&, trench upon the military spirit by etercifing the power of eleaiog of recommending their own Officers in the firft inflame. which was theSnoll natural meens,tperhapsi by which a Volunteer Body could, under fnch tircumftencesed be officered. But having once become etroilitaer Corps, and recognized as fuch, and having all their Officers in ezifience, a new and delicate cimeinßancet arises with refpeft to the mode of filling top.fuch ea. ca ncies as might in future haptorm. They muR then., in fad, be emdidered as a militarrbody, and be re gulated by military principles in all their military . concerns ; and every thing that devieted from that, was a difparagement of their military efficacy. and., pro taw°, a departure from military principles elku be was as Molly of o pinion as any man,that good faith onght to be kept with the Volunteers, who had 'kept forward fo patriotically and nobly in the Genre of their country. lie mull, however, deprecate the idea that in an army of {ogreat magnitude. fuck a mods of appointing officers as that by eleetion thould pre: Vail, which, in fah, would go very far to (hake their difcipline, though his confidence in their good difpo fitions was not to be impaired. Yet however confi dent, and judly confident he was in their loyalty and patriotifm, such a pradtice might, in many infiances, in many Corps, occafion much party feeling. and muck dangerous (chiral. He was however happy to fay, that from whatever cluster the recommendation might come, the feelings and willies of thole who compofed the corps ought certainly to be confulted. He was certain r woutd be the care of (iovernmene to Rudy the gratification of the will i es and defirea. and affeaioos of the Corps in this hritance, and cer tainly, in this tare, there could be no violation of faith imputed to Government. concerning their con duit to the Volunteer , on this oesitfion. • Iete:'WHITSRE A Di--"air,tl feet it to be indifpees ably neeefary for me to fay 'if few words upon this queßioa, having ban already alluded to by an Hims. Friend of mine, In the tourfe of this debate, an hie obfervation on The conftitution of the Bedford Vo lunteers, with whom I am fo dotal canseeted., t with fill to make Come obfervatioaa unthe right eleainn or recommendation, and to the advice the Right Hon. Secretary of State Paid he was ready to offer., to which. indeed, I am naoß difpoTed to advert. -:-He laid, that if any corps affertar the right of choofieg or recommending their own offioers, and ffiould . perfift in that right, he lhould think it Lis duty to adelfe his Majedy to difband that corps.— Now, Sir, the corps I have the bonbur to comman• offered to (tree ha Majelty in ame.pare of Great Bei min, but exprefsiy refereed to themfelves, and con tinue to pofiefs die power and right:of•abooling that own officers, naming fpecifically the two fuperinr aficers.in the fieft instance ; and if they bad been toll that thole two officers might be probably difplaie and others fubtlittited in their place, or that the other officers were to be nominated by any other power. that corps certainly would never have been forme!. Now, Sir, does the Right Hon. Gentleman think it confident with the Volunteer (Wiens. which he ha fo much, and fo often recommended to the Houk. to be fo very peremptory in his regulations ? As to what has been dated of the difference between tlte rights of ele&ion and of recommendation, I con •fels, I cannot Ice it. I hold it to be my duty t. recommend thole, whom the corps, by the cured of their right, recommend. Now, Sit, what is th: but elefiion ? The Lord Lieutenant may have hi negative, and to may the Secretary of State. Bu who are fo fit to be the judges as the corps them (elves, *of the character and conduit of thole and. whom they would with to serve I 4 The Secretary i State mentioned one corps (I believe he alluded t. the I.:msion and Weilminfier Light Horfe Volu teers) who have the right of recommendation. Noir if• dry 'hare this right, is it by law, or by coniti Vance ? It by connivance, has any mitchief atik from *it ? Does not every corps with to enjoy eq privileges ? A great dißindion has been attempt . to be taken between the original privilege of nn meting Offices . and the p ri vilege of recesurnem:iet to the filling up of vacancies. occurring by do it , or refignations, of the propriety of which , I•e nole. lam not at all convince . Surely, the fame l'. Cons who cleazil the Officers in the felt inflaN arc equally qualitied to creel in the others; I'l arc rather hater qualified ; they know the C. l tlemen belt tiu dined, and of molt confides:. i in the n&glil,ou.11ood. Upon this principle t aged at tuft, and Government accepted digit. conimendaCout. Would not the fame principle it rluencc thou elide ? They have, indeed, acq"i t " mote means ofjudging of the qualification Of Ptr i°l whit sir C4!ldlki.. ie., Ii iim the opportunities they hag bad of fee A thsir condoft. I molt tell that Rixii lion. Gentleman (the Secretary of State), that,' Ile ..as op to eh.! leo:in:ems he has expreff..l to rugh b:s conduct %sill, in die end, be fatal to th e Voluntn fyilem. Were I, Sir, a private, I confefti that. ; 0 liari,ig the clear and undoubted right a I e commtY log the Officers ut the c Tr of which I was a nu" tni, I ramild be set v much indtfpofest to terve o•-•! Officers appointed cver me by the Cr .wn. 'l'h: 1 outs, it ote, in his opening speech this es cr.' has t..ken a I retty toll view (/{ Use acc.tliti es%' la h ni