Star. — London, England, 1804-04-26 00:00:00

11 L 1 emitted by each pariCh and county lhould be Attach ed to the cnrrefponding regiment in Great Britain or Ireland. II this plan were once reduced to praaice and judicioufly ;teed on, I have no doubt that one of the greatefl ()blades to the recruiting would be removed. It is obvious that by fuch a plan all the influence of domeffic feeling and local conneetion would be obtained if thole entering into the Army of Referve were conneeed with the particular regiment for which they mull feel a peculiar prediletlion. But 'his would not happen alone in the cafe of recruits at tached to old battalions. If fupplementary battalions were formed, the fame effects would refult from the fame confederations. Similar feelings betwixt both battalions would be encouraged and fimilar ardour would be created. But, Sir. the good effects of fuch an arrangement would not be fo limited. It will not be denied that the prefent fylem of inditcriininare volunteering the Army of Referve was extremely difcouraging to the officers employed in drilling the raw recruits. After he has wafted all his labour in bringing the men to lonic kind of perfeeion, ,I put it to the candour and the good fenfe of the Honfe, whe ther it muff not be painful to the feelings of any man to think that all his labonr is to pars without reward, that thofe whom he has prepared to advance into the field are to follow the banner. of fame other leader ? It is not, however, Sir, as a painful confederation that this indifcriminate fy Item of volunteering is to be re probated. It is evidently calculated to undermine all difeipline or attachment to officers. It follies are attached to officers, this feeling cannot be of long duration, bccaufe the conneelion is hardly formed before it is diffolved. If, on the other hand, foldiers are diffatisfied with their Commanders, they know that while indifcriminate volunteering is allowed, they have the fpeedy profpee of retiring from the controul of men whom they may choofe to detelt and to ca. lumniate. But, Sir, if the fy Item I recommend were followed, all there evils would be done away. Know. ing that their connection with their officers was of a' permanent nature, the men would learn both awe and regard; and the Officers, firmly attached to their recruits, would (pare no time to render them puree' in all the ditties of a militiry life. The confttreaces that would With from this fyftem were obvious:llre Grid have the men in an intermediate late more frft finent for the purpofes of defence, and we lhouldhavi claim mote difpofed to enter into the regplar difpcifable folee of the country. If a thoufandlegular troops wire wanted, we Gould have a thopfaod tenors of the Referve pale* qualified to fupply their place for every purport of internal defence. We might hive' men for Hotted fervice, but then they would - be tulder officer's of no limited views; men who *had feett,fervice in every part of the globe ; and who knew - moll perfeelly to qualify men to advance into the field of battle with that confidence which is the bell pledge of faccefs. I have already Rated, that in railing the number of the Army of Referve to 64,opii, 1 Gould proceed gradually as vacancies in the militia occurred t and this ferret in a great litaifure to remove any objeftion drawn from any ideaasi extraordinary inconvenience or mane. But on the fubjee of inconvenience, when I fay that ifthe prefent moll °pram penalty was removed, the in c nvenience both to parillies and to individuals would arty be diminifled, one grand objeft of my an would therefore be to lower that penalty mach low what it is according to exiling alas. I fboold propiffe that the ballot Gould go on as it is conduced to tie militia eliablithment. If an individual was 1011nreed, howoold have it in his power either to pay the modified penalty, or to accept of the bounty, vihith Gould riot be lefs than that offered for the re gular army. I Mould propofe silo that the parith Gould be b•thnd to find the fubttituta within the handfed in which it was Situated. If the fublicure could ant be found within a given time in that dif via, then, of cootie, an extenfion of the diltrie for recruiting mug be allowed. In that cafe, however, yNnold contend, that the bounrysoffered Gould be tinder that of f ered for the regular army ; and that the recruiting officer for the &aria where the man was to be provided Gould be applied to on the fobjett. Perfons drawn would have the option either ' of receiving a bounty or paying a penalty, and I have no dtiebt,if this were a Mort time perfiled in, the (Oats of fubflitutes would be materially dimi- Oiled. Mr. Pitt concluded his very luminous late meta by a few general obfervations, pointing out the importance of the plan he propoted, as calculated to augment our regular army—to give greater perfec tion to our !yams of defence—to ceconomifc our' . refources—and to hold out the faireft prolpett of a fucceftful termination to the War. On all there grounds, he concluded by moving, that the Speaker do ant leave the Chair. Mr. Secretary YORKE Paid, it was not his inten tion to follow the Right Honour ible Gentleman through all the details of the plan developed in hi. able and eloquent fpeech ; he could not, however,' but obferve in the outfet, that whatever advantage might be expelled to be derived from that meafure, deemed conducive to the pr manent ftrengthening of the military fylem, it could not be resided in a (peed" manner, filch as the neceffoiei of the country may require. If the roundel principle of political wifdom Was to make ourfclves pet feely fecute at home be fore we began to make any extraordinary exertion. abroad, he took it that we had fufficiently provided foe that fecnrity already. \Vhatheprr.peredby the Lill for Cul - pending the operation of the Army of Referve Aes, was a temporary meal. ire, to faci:itate the augmentation of the regular turce, tfitealy -lid col. laterally ; dircliy, I , y removing the rnifehievous competition that prevailed between the dacrent ler-- Vices, and collaterally by accepting rf the voluntary fervices of the Irish Militia, and making a raop,r ti.tngte atigit,ntation, fi as to render our diopofable fiVCC more Aci.lable. It would alto I.:chi:ate the sugmentati!au th et v. 15 propofrd in the tro , i,. of the line. He was perfectly A'A ale of I I ": at . 7.+•rtcnt vh,:ch wool!! be Wed, that the incteal , of the militia as read be in competition with the other levies; hut in this Rep he was guisied by the Gsndernen moll cc nye, fair ith that couittry, ac•c t f o, lint be difficult to F t -cote both. fulAlantise part of thi, was all competition, and, in h, n 1 th the Ell aloiwther was a b:lter m.a lit than by at.y amendment ta- v•ti.):l be made in the law. lie WA 4' read ) 11 the Rigl.t iitm. Gentleman, that the r Lltll mute benefited, Atl6l gut opt n that it v-uh! prmviple Inco r ;r1 otrcr t: .tlit ply i ,:t•ndrd the Army . of Referve, thank! could hive o •. -.in; • l a the fame finite of time by any other mebtans. number of which the Army of Referee was even' was 27,000, all of whom had been railed in theft:wee of fix months ; but (ince the latter end of the month of November 'all, it was fo much at a (land, that it was barely able to fupport itfelf. If the prefent plan was not found to anfwer according to the expecta tions of thole who adviled and propofed it. the Par liament had it in its power to glop it at any time when the army eftimates came before them. As it was therefore of a temporary nature, it would' not inter fere with the permanent plan of the Right Honoura ble Gentleman for the augmentation of the line, 1 which might, notwithstanding this, be adopted at any time that the Parliament might think proper ; at the fame time, however, he did not with to conceal his opinion, that whatever may be its gene ral merits, no immediate or effeflive good could be _derived from it. The Army of Referee was now ' deficient in the number of between thirteen and 1 fourteen thoufand linen ; and to exile& that they could be furnifhed by calling on the counties at this time, he knew- would be an impratlicable attempt, and would, at the fame time, keep the bounties and the competition quite as high as ever. As to the ob jeftion taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman to the low bountiei, he wifhed to know whether they did not apply to his plan as well as to that of his Majefty's Minifters ? The bounty was now ten guineas to the man, two to the officer, and one for levy money.— No more would be allowed ; and whether the boun ties be high or low, the plan °fills Majefty's blinillers would affift in the recruitment of the army, as it took away every competition. As to giving the officers one itep more of rank, he could fee no nafehievous effot that could arife from it, as precautions were taken that they Ihould not be entitled to it, unlefs they were of a fufficient (landing to entitle them to it, had it been in their rotation. If they had not com pleted fix months fervicc, they were to revert to their former rank. He then read the regulations, which. tiefides the former provifion, deprived them of their rank, it they gave more bounty than what they were allowed to do, and alfo made them guilty of a breach of difcipline, and liable to be tried for it by a Court Martial. It had been fate!, that it would have been better to repeal the Ael than to fufpend it. He, however, was of a different opinion, and thought it much more prudent to keep it Rill in exinence, until the effet of the preterit meafure thould be tried.— The plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman 'might be very beneficial to the fervice, and he was undoubted ly competent to propofe it whenever he pleated ; hut it Might be done without injury to the prelim fyftern; for he could not conceive in what manner the one interfered with the other. Without entering Man the details of that plan. he could not avoid making the obfervation once again, that loch a fyftem would (till continue the competition fo much complained of. The Right Hon. Gentleman argued. in fupport of his plan, that it would encourage thofe who firft engag ed for limited, afterwards to enlill for general fer vice. True ; but the effelt of the Army of Referee Dill was precifely the fame. By the laft returns that he law, the number of the Army of Referee, which had entitled into the line, was io,ooo men. being 17,0C0 on the fame conditions to which they had originally engaged. The Right Hnn. Gentleman alfo propofed to mile the Army of Referee to 64,000 ' men, and turn the vacancies whicis might occur in the militia to the account of that army. But in do ing fo. he feemed to forget the hardlhip which the counties would fu(tain, in being obliged to fill the itde ficiencies exulting in the iiia and the Army of Re feree, and to ill up the v ancies betides. the conic quence of attempting which would infallibly be, the stoppage of the entire fyftern. The prefent was not the time to difcufs the new plan, but he could not I help obferving. that were it to be adopted, the more foldiers who Volunteered in the Line, the greater' would be the number of vacancies to be filled up, and in that cafe, he believed, there would be little en couragement given in the country to the Willing in the Itegulars. As to what had been Paid of country and national names, he eonfidered it as a thing im. praElicable in this country. The experiment had been tried in S:osland, where the regiments of High landers compoled of the 42,d and 92d Regiments, considered as the molt a4live and efficient for fer vice, went by that ditlind name; and the Lowland Battalion, commanded by the Marquis of Huntley, dent by the name of the Cameronian regiment. — The fame was tried its England, by giving feveral regiments the names of the counties in which they were railed ;• but the experiment failed, as far as re garded confining the men to dude counties, and they were now generally known by their numbers. It was alfo propcled in a new plan, that it thould maintain ith:lf by ballot, but not in the ufual mode, for the perfon drawn would be allowed either to commute his fervicc for a moderate fine, or ferve himfelf, and receive the ufual bounty ; but hough it was very well known that perfons in low circumstances, apprehen• five of being drawn, frequently engaged themfelves for the bounty, as fuhtlitutes for others, yet it was no fecrer, that the general opulence of the people cf this country created an avert - ton to entitling at all. It would be alto found impraCticable to draw all the fubliitutcs hem the counties far which they were to serve ; filch a plan was only the renovation of what had been the original law, but was difcontinued Isecaufe it was found that it was impoffible to carry it into execution. Upon the whole, he could not find that the new plan would at all interfere with this; ;. ir was it cal. elated to rail.: a force in a fhort period of t.: - .1.: ; and V. WS no; conclutive againa this Bill, as the winter could never be confidered as a fubititute for the latter. Letore the motion now before them was adopr,,i, the 1f0u.,: would do well to refl:4l, whether, by p , :iporting .:i;. mediate, tli.y would not intertuo the ;h.:. leer:,; whereof the plan newly pro. poic ' 1.. i 1,..,:t c irid hot t e made immediately effeftual. Mr. PITT fdid a few words in CrylArlift4.ll. Mr. Will I'UREAD was glad chit the Right -I. Secretory, in :inf.% er to the Right Erin. Gen der the- gallor y, kid cond , :feer.ded to ex :;.eCts, the 11.:1 which he n.,w pro :.. ct,..i:der.ition t I the I loule. By i a. r',e R;AI t Ikon. Gentleman ' c, he It.vs certainly jtiltificd the 1. et i tieot!y brought agoitill ad, pied no fix,:d ot c miii. AtiOn, 61. I~m} v 1 Er 11 m-:afire now it, Lilo:11;1i no.ri.,7nomer übe ucccirey a be more glaring then, the 3ppellaton iii,,49 fpecies of force, as the refult has proved a one of the great gfsgSisifeli44rmyno°ft R bee ef n erv rfPe4 e, that ea ilti w tol s d in juftificttion Havere:ru i t n i n o g t e r n e r m r f un a r a u - t of in r recruiting i been ting [he v given army the lllS tive an tlate t different periods ; and have we not been told that the has footbeen owing toed of the recrutheit ing A f r erv my ic of Referee ? e, fuch as it has Such are b , the advantages which t hat Gentleman has boalled of deriving from the Army of Referee ; and yet he now comes forward to fufpend this Ad which he has for merly gated to be produdive of fo many advantages. He comes forward to remove, by this fufpenfion, t h e pernicious circa' of that competition which has been Co often complained of, but which has never been till now admitted by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He could not, however, allow the acknowledgment of the Right Hon. Gentleman to be a difficient anfwer to the objections offered to the prefent Bill. He could not allow the acknowledgment of their pall errors to be a diffident proof of the incapacity of Minigers to condua the affairs of the country, particularly in fuch a crifis as the prefent ; he would allow it to be a diffident proof, that they bad no vigour or confillency in their meafures; but he could never allow the perception of pail errors, fo long and fo obilinately perfiited in, and kill profetfing to be adhered to in regard to principle, to be a proof of greater wifdoM in new arrangements wilich were Co clofely conflated with the former, that they, mull partake in a very • confiderable degree of their general complexion.— The meafure now propofed, does not go to aboligi the Army of Referee. which, if that fyitem has been found inefficient it ought to do ; but gam only to faid pend for a time its operation. Either the Army of Referee is a good or bad fyllem. If it is a good fy l tens and po&fred of all the advantages, which have been profeffed to be derived from it, why fufpend it? And if it is a bad fyftem, and by creating an unfair competition, operates in hoftility to the increafe of the regular army ; can any realms be given, why it Ibould not be totally repealed,? but Minifiers perhaps are afraid to confefs their weakncfs. They tee at lag the inconveniencies attendiug the prefent Army of Referee Sy Rem, out are rents Cant to ac knowledge in proper form the inutility of 4 fyliern they have fo Mien fupported, and from which they have profeffed to derive fa many advantages. They wills to abolith it therefore imperceptibly. and to avoid, under the pretence of a temporary furpenfion, the smile and eclat of a recantation. They with to abolifh it by a fide wind, and at the expence of the people. As if the former fyilem had not been faffi• ciently expenfive, the prelim plan now propufed to be fubmitted to the Houfe was no lets calculated to empty the poeketi of the people. That men could be railed in a lhort time upon any fuck ()Rem was an erroneous idea. .In the counties with which he was acquainted, he could fay, from his own obferva tion, intlead of railing the men in a Mort time, they were obliged toad illegally in order to raife them at all. Had they ailed legally indeed. they would ate thee have found men nor money. But if it is now allowed that men cann'rt be railed by the Army of- Referee, which was formerly gated to polrefs fro • many advantages, and which is gill allowed to be efficient, inatmuch as it is not Intended to be repeal ed, to what quarter !hall we apply fur the fupply of men required ? If Government has not been able to raife the neceffary fupply of men by the operation of the Army of Referee Act, how thin they be able to raife the men wanted, if the field is fo exhaulted as to render that ad ineffectual ? If it was really necel Cary to go into a Committee on this (uhjed, it mull be regarded as a proof, and a very undeniable proof —a proof which thole gentlemea thernfelves recog nife, that all former meal - ores have been ineffectual. But if this be really the cafe—if the properrnode of augmenting our army be yet unakertained, upon what principle could the motion of his Honourable Friend (Mr. Fox), have been rejeded lag night ? Did not that motion go to the adoption of vigorous and adequate meafures, and to the correaion of pall inadvertencies 1 Was it nut the defign of that motion to employ the colleCtive wifdom of the Houle. in adopting meafures to the exigency of our prelent circumtlances ? But Minillers by rejeeling the offer, had declared the prefent fyflcm to be complete, and yet they come forward tonight and !tate it, as need'. Cary to go into a Committee on one of the moll im portant departments of the fervice, and what is 11111 more, place this neceflity on the•very grounds urged by his Honourable Friend in fayour of his motion. [Hear ! hear! hear !) Had that motion been car ded they Mould now have been fitting as a Commit tee, not only for inveltigating the bell means of aug menting the regular army ; but of the belt means alfo of arranging and difpofing of every fpecies of our force. It would appear, therefore, Irmo the arguments of thole gentlemen this night, that they did not rejea the meafure propofcd by his Honour able Friend, from a conviction of its impropriety ; but merely to try their grength, and to afeertain whether it would be prudent for them t , s continue longer in their places (a Lnigb . 1 ) fist now having afcertained this important point, they come forward and tell us, without refizeting a moment on their for. mer arguments, that it m ill be proper to go into a Committee. There is certainly a gull relinquilh• mein, both of principle and duty, not to call it by a worfe name, in the condua of t:,:. lf-Altt honour able Gentleman this day. But if you do not allow them to carry this meafure into efflst, they will tell you, you may as well deny them the lui,l ly, for in the prefent circumgances the one grant is as nee& fary as the other. Without railing men, they tail us, it is impoflible to go rm, and it is no longer pot fible to raile men on tie 'ld Is gem. It was tar this very reafon, he was againfi the inealore. If the Army of Referve :let was n.: longer uritril, it ought to be repealed. lie wori;,l thciehac v.ry ssiiiingly give his vote for its repeal ; but would by no means encourage partial mealloci by voting it, flip, nf: -I, when upon the deelaratipn (.1 Mii,ht,is thtnif lv..s, it ought to be entirely abolifired. According to the Itatement to repeatedly made hi Minitters, th .y in tended the Army 1.1 . Keret re as a fupply for the re• gular army. This a...milt:on was adowed then:, n I t h their n il . d t tens is ! , t , , .. ,r tii v c , ;: l . r in cut l i n u ff s and they claimed no imonlil c r a hle credit from it.— iir c; : p . o. fi t s : w i e i r , : c l t t a i r • . e . . l fufpend a 101.11 wind, hof lo 1.. p•.. c !..I ..li.:,` . 1 the !apply or :h: re, ; u: ir army. :1 .h;' , ..: . •'- I rec. mean; to r. upend the I and to a confider Able urn , ll' r, every man will .i::ose thcrsiort, for the is create loch a force, mull meet with general appro bation, though, at the fame time, he, for one, fl o oaa not wiltito fee any great dirporable force put into their hands,_froma conviSion that th ey would be very ill qualified to make a proper ufe of it. But if the Army of Referee Al was calculated to cre ate this difperable force, why fufperd it ? and if it had a contrary tendency, why not immediately re peal it ? But in furpending the Army of litlerve they propofe, it feema, to create a number of in fpeitors in the different diltrial. What confequeneca could be expefted from fuch an arrangement ? The Lord Lieutenants of the different Counties are cer tainly fufficient fur all the purpores intended by in fpators, and even in molt cafes better qualified theta fupervifors of any defeription. But the Ctentlemen oppofite, perhaps, with at the prefent critical mo, • meat to create a greater number of places, and thus independently of general strength of the country add at leaft to their own forces. Such an acquilitiou, of firength was no doubt defirable, and at the ric fent moment, perhaps. abfolutely necelrery. Inef ficient, however, as the Army of Referve Ad would now Teem to be. its provifions bad nos been eat-tied into execution, which was a dill farther probf thai Mini:ten were ill qualified either to adopt new mea feres,or to carry exiaing ones into execntion. They ,enadledwithont thought. and were equally anxious to furpend withofst reflation. By the Army of Re feree Bill, they had required the quota of men to be railed et a certain time, or a fine to be impeded. thould any county or diftrit be deficient in their number. He Mould not fay at relent whether this provilion was wife or not, but lie was certain it had not, and perhaps could not, with any propriety, be carried into elevation. In the county with which he was panicutarlyconnated,thenuntber of men had not been found, but at the : fame time no fine had been ins ' pored by the (IBartel Seffions, as it was found themen could not be gut. In reply to this, they will tell us moil likely, they could not know the peed& circuits.- , fiances of the different counties, and might therefore. in fame inflances, over-rate them. But had not they the fame footers of information which any Member of that Houle had, and were they not fuppofed to have more, as they had aced - stoat.: aggregate infor mation of the Houfe, when they thought it necerary to call for it ? Nor could he think at all more juflifs able the mode now propofed otimpoliag the fine, not as the old one, but on the county at large; as, ac cording to this provifion, thole who had exerted themfelves in any fucla county would be liable, and would, in rat, be fitbjelted to the fine, as well as thole who had not raifed a fingle man. That rock an arrangement would be unfatr,revired lleldernta *ration. But another material objetion be had to • the smarms arok from the idea, that timid it man be hallooed, and not have &dually joined his corps before this Bill paired, he flail be ohlsgednot to find a Cabalism, whatever arrangements he may have made for that pupae, but a certain bun of mosey. or to ferve in perfon. Would it be confident—would it be fuitable to the wiklom of Parliament to fluke the man, in fuels eircionliences, find the money, when he might more conventinnly find a felsaitute--when to find the one might he poffihk, and the other. perhaps, wholly irnpywilienliet But ruppofe_you mand zol. as the price. °flak ate option ? Ah, fare the balloted ma n, this is Avaftrons. and *rem pa me only for a year, .I will not confine, to it. But, Faye the Government, if yen will merest to pay more, it will exempt you for ire years, and what it &id more. from the Militia ago. What thee rook be the conk queue of inch &natures? You thus cut up not °city the Army of Referve, but aro the Militia, and in' the end will lock up the forts of the coantry..w. Upon the whole, he would vote for delaying this meafore at all events, that the Right Hoe. Gentle man under the gallery (Mr. Pitt), might have time to bring forward his meafure, which panelled as a whole to he more fatisfatory. He would therefore give his vote that the Speaker fhould not leave the chair. In regard to the plans propofed by that Right lion. Gentleman, the prefent was not now the tune to go into them, even fo far as he had esplained bins felt: From the anfwer however of the Right Hoe. Secretary, to dusk plans, fo far as they had been ex pi:lira:J. it mutt be very obvious that they ought to tx difeared before the piafiing of this Bill, as the !mature in cooternplatko of the Right Hon. Gentle man, held out advantages which we have not derived from any of the meafures hitherto adopted, and Wove than thus Bill even profeffed to he calculated to give- He did not by any means conceive that the mock of ballot fuggelted by the Right Huoossrable Gentleman could be attended with any inconvenience. it would not neceffarily cut off our reeourfe to the great ma , nufaauring towas for the recruiting fervice. While others would be mote productive. thofe fonrces airs. would be left equally open as at prcfcnt. The Hof - Secretary, he thought, had not fulliciently saplainel how the two battalions he had mentioned were to be officered, as there mull be an influx of officers as well as men. The Right Honourable Gentleman. by preferibing the tried in whith the number of men were to be railed for the purple of prom:- . ing tank, had defeated, in 1 great mcalur.., obj.sa of this arrangement ; but it would • pear :Dore ridiculous. when it was r:Colleneal, [Ls.: they were not only oldia,ol to rail; then, witl,in given time, her rot petni:tied also Sc, give then, more than a es.i..in ivounty. The Mu-li tters by Cud) menus acre zertair.4 ,uttitig the L:.l.` as of their own plan. if a man is limited to a C. , : ..1 time, he [Min tleCerrArily give the greater -- If you, therefore, tie up his baods in both t. •-• you go very far, indeed, to ' , town any 1e. , . hopes of fuccers. '1 he Hon. G, a.; • • • ed to the ittlafcrirdion chill, that ltd w:writ bath the precedoso frakers. In nt..:ty triv....cti acknowledged, lie Ara , . at.,infl t;,-7 fr, men al together ; but it. tame 'aflame. alto, I.c auuld admit it to Le expedient. In .;!iculttir al counties, par ttt 1,- I.lllyr Gcollemcr. from 1::e country mita know, that that could he great inconv:. iznelc% v i.hout a fylls:n of ulna dewr pti it. The. I litnottrable Gentleman thea coachide ! no his negative to the motion 1.• the tl.: ircirle, Or It It . 111 C E Ain.) , of ::tense Act can no longer exi t: at a r.iC .11 . therefore, was mare pr , -irer than penfisti, ++nd that the m-if.•• • t the f :T. I'. .1. er i.~ R n - . . to I, brto, ,u•nn,tble ritt' 11. , I -\ It 1. ~~ ,~ u !, tai :t •••• ••,,••• —•- .T.Lni ti.c I{nm•nr4tae Gan man oppothe Lim cciaLi ax, by any lair .u.: 4.4 a' I