Star. — London, England, 1816-06-13 00:00:00

I - present motion was less called for now than at any former period. Besides, any person aggrieved might ' appeal to.the Privy Council, where the law would be stated by the Lord Chancellor, the Master of the Rolls, the two Chief e Jitistices, and Chief Baron, as • . sisted by theeleito Officers of the Crown. lie him self did not think it necessary to give any opinion on the qiiestion which had been stated. It would be presumptuous in him to do so, when the law would be settled, in case the question arose in the exercise of the powers given by the Bill, by those of much . more competent authority. Earl GREY said, that the question was, whether, where a serious doubt existed as to the subject upon which they were legislating, that doubt ought not to be revolved ?—and he could not conceive any thing more palpably wrong than to proceed to Rats a law, while they remained .uncertain against whom it was - tocperate ; more especially - when they were called upon to grant new and extreorduaar * powers, which, not aithstandieg ell that had b seated about pre rogative, could only be given reit, Legislature.— ' .The Noble Lord said, that he himself Would state no opinion on the question, and that it *mild be pre. sumptunus in him to do so ; and yet it was to him in particular that these powets i were to besranted.— The Noble Lord said no inconvenience had been felt; hut how did they know what inconvenience might have occurred ? The Noble Lord had refused all in formation, and m.my Americans might have been sent out of the country under these laws.—(Lord Sidmouth denied that any such instance had evere occurred.)—Supposing the pewter had sever been exercised in that way, the aperehension of it might be attended with mischievous consequences and great inconvenience. As to the appeal to the Council, the Legislature ought itself to see in the first place against whom the law might aptly. Besides, the . appeal ‘4 as given to Aliens only, and the Americans might deny that they were Aliens, and apply for a Habeas Corpus ; and then a single Judge might be celled upon to decide this very question. It was of the greatest importance that these matters should not be lett in a state of. uncertainty, for, until the doubts were resolved, they were legislating in the dark. The Earl of LIVERPOOL opposed the motion, because for 23 years no practical inconvenience had been felt from these doubts. But he objected also, because it was in fact putting an abstract question to the Judgis, and a question not well worded, even with a view to the Noble Lot d's own purpose. It would be infinitely better to have the question decid etl en appeal to the Nett Council, when the case should practically arise. But then it was said, that the party might rot appeal; but apply for his Ha s bas C. rpus. His answer was, so much the better, as the law would then be stated by soma of the urts i t Westmiaster Hall. This would be the hest way to have a judicial decision on the subject, with werence to which they might have recourse to some legslative measure, if that should appear neces. nary bet he was decidedly averse to this proposi tion fair petting an abstract question to the Judges. The Met gins of BUCKINGHAM said, that the object of legisietien was to clear or remove doubts, and not to make them. That maxim appeared to be reversed on this occasion. The Alien, he contended, would be pieced ia a situation the most unjust. He was eithzi to stand bafere the Privy Council without the assistance of legel advisers, or he was to go to the expense ri a process in Westminster Hall. He exeected that :melt e,- oppertunity would occur of delivering his servinaants against the principle of the Aiien Biii ; bin h tying been prevented last night Eom attendieg the discussion of that principle, he could not help now expressing his surprise at the opi nion which he understood had been expressed by the Learned Lord at the head of the equity of this coua-, try, and by another Learned Lord at the head of the Criminal Law—that the prerogative of the Crown could in any case affect the pereonal liberty of any sul e ject. The LORD CHANCELLOR adverted shortly to what had fallen froin the Noble Marquis. Whe ther the Croon had or had not the power of sending an Alien out of the country, was not the question before the House ; but whether the measure was to be justified by the influx of foreigners, an.-I the cir cumstances howhich the country was placed ? The Alien Act of 1793 did not originate from the fear of French troops—these could always be met by Bri tish troops ; but from the fear of French principles. Had it been moved in 1793, that a similar question should be put to the Judges, he should have opposed it—first, because he did not think it so worded as to enable the Noble Lord to attain his object ; but prin cipally because it might have this inconvenient effect —that the Judges would stand pledged by the an swer they might give to an abstract question. He was persuaded, that it the question was put to them, they would reply that it was too general in its nature to be answered, consistently with safety to the admi nistration of justice. No one could deny that the Alien Bill was a measure of great importance :—but were their Lordships prepared to say, that after it Lad been in operation for 23 years, it should be all • at once abolished, and not even permitted to exist for two years 'ringer ? He conceived that it was on the whole calculated to produce a preponderance of be nefit. The presumed Alien, if claiming to be a native-born subject, had his writ of trespass, or of Habeas Corpus, to resort to ; and at any rate the Privy Council, composed as it was, might be pre sumed as capable of terming a judgment on his case • as any Court in the kingdom. • Earl GREY observed, that the Noble - Viscount had asserted that no American had ever been sent out of the country under the Alien Act : but since the assertion was made, he had learned that an Ame rican had been sent out of the country—that Amer can was Mr. Barr, no inconsiderable person, and who had been once Vice-President of the United States. Lord HOLLAND shortly replied, after which the question was put, and negatived without a division. Earl G Itknl postponed his motioa for the, second reading of the Freehold Estates Bill till Wednes day next. Tin CLERGY. • The Archbishop of CANTERBUEY rose for the purpose of bringing in a Bill, the chief object of which was to bring into one Act of Parliament the various statutes now in force respecting the govern. mont of the chute!). No one was more sensible than he was of the injurious effects of agitating and bring ing into discussion the laws which governed the Church ; but it was ift some measure rendered neces a ftri, because the Mt of the 43d of the King wa' about to expire. Another clause gave the diocesan . power to require an incumbent to employ an assis tant, in cases where, from the extent of the duties, it was the opinion of the diocesan that they could ►iot be adequately performed by one prison. The power of nomination would, however, rest with the incum bent, as well as the amount of salary to be fixed be tween them. If, for three months atter the intima•, Lion, the incumbent neglected to appoint an assis tant, then the power of the nomination should lapse to the Bishop. The Learned Primate then set forth the objects of the Bill, one of which was more effectually to regulate the residence of the Clergy. One clause, he said, went to allow the incumbent of a living to rent 20 acres of land, besides his glebe, for the purpose of celtivation, without the necessity of applying for permission from his diocesan. If, however, he wished to occupy more, it was provided that he should apply for that permission. There was nothing in it to prevent their occupation and cultiva• tion of glebe lands to any extent. After other ob servations on the nature of the Bill, which the Learned Primate represented as the fruit of the la bours of the Bench of Bishops, he moved that the Bill be read a first time, with a view to its being printed, and lying over for consideration in the next Session. • The Earl of HARROWBY expressed his appre hension that this Bill was too confieed in its enact ments. • The Earl of CARNARVON adverted to certain doubts which existed, whether the Clergy could by law cultivate their own possessions ? At a time when so many (arms were thrown on the hands of the landlords, it was important that this doubt should be cleared up. With regard to the powers to be con ferred on the diocesan, both in regard to residence and assistants, he was anxious that nothing should be done tending to compromise the political indepen dence of that large and respectable body of turn, the Clergy of the Church of England. The Archbishop of CANTERBURV could assure the Noble Lord that the right of cultivating their own possessions would be secured to the Clergy. A power of appeal also to the Provincial Ordinary would be given to the incumbent from the decision of his Diocesan. The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be printed. ALIEN BILL. The House went into a Committee on this Bill. Lord HOLLAND remarked, dist the first clause committed the absurdity of repealing the old Alien Act, which was not now in existence. Even the re. searches of a Committee would not find it on the statute book. Lord SIDMOUTH replied, that the Act was in existence when the Bill entered the House of Com mons, though not when it.passed. This inadvertence could easily be remedied. - The Earl of CARNARVON moved an amend ment, the purport of which went to declare that the Bill v.-as for the better preservation of the peace and safety of the realm. Lord SIDMOUTH opposed this amendment. He disclaimed the imputation that his Majesty's Mi. nisters took any participation in the policy of other countries : at the same time they could not shut their eyes to the danger of this country becoming the re. ceptacle for a set of malevolent, depraved, and tur. bulent foreigners, from whence they might carry on their machinations against their own lawful Govern. ments. He should shrink from his i s -ty if he did not btate, that the peace of Europe, with which the welfare of this country was so closely connected, was also one of the objects of the Bill. The Duke of SUSSEX deprecated this mode of legislation frr the supposed safety of other countries. Lord HOLLAND observed, that there was I I something abhorrent to the feelings cf Englishmen in placing in the hands of Ministers the power of ex pelling Aliens who disapproved of the principles of the House of Bourbon, and who sought an asylum in this country. Why not also give them the power of expelling Englishmen who detested those princi ples ? In that case he thought they would thin the country. How were our Ministers to know that th-31 refugees were dangerous and malevOlent men ? I They were to know it, forsooth, from the French Government, and its representative here. How, if it should happen that French Protestants were to seek a refuge here from persecution ? Would not that Government represent them as Bonapartists ?—and were our Ministers to expel them ? He would wish every Protestant in this kingdom to lay this deeply to heart. The object of the Bill was avowed. Why not insert in it that it was to keep the Bourbons on the throne ? The amendment was negatived without a division. Lord HOLLAND moved a clause, the object of which was, that before any alien was sent out of the kingdom, he should be carried before the Secretary of State, or any justice of the peace, for the purpose of enabling him to lodge an appeal against his de portation. This Clause, after a few words from Lord SID MOUTH, was also rejected. Lord HOLLAND proposed a clause exempting from the operation of the act such persons as had been brought into this country before the age of twelve years, and who had not since departed fro ns it ; which, after a few words from Lord SIMIOUTII and the Earl of CAUNARVON, was put and negatived. The Earl of CA RNARVON then submitted an amendment, the object of which was, to impose the burden of proof on the party who preferred the com plaint against the alien. It was objious that in this, art in every commercial country, there were many persons who might have risen to opulence without being acquainted with their own origin, or the abode of their parents, as in the case of natural children, or those born in foreign settlements. Lord REDESDALE opposed the motion, on the ' ground that it would be impossible to lay the *nut pro ' bandi as to the foreign birth of the alien on the corn. plainant, without entirely defeating the purpose of the bill. The question was put, and carried in the negative. The Earl of CARNARVON then moved, that the bill should not extend to the alien wives of natu ral-born subjects ; which, after some conversation, was also negatived without a division. Lord HOLLAND moved, that the provisions of the Bill should not affect the rights of American sub jectito landed property in this country. order the let of the 37th of the King. The LO CHANOE LLO R opposed the amend. meat as'uanecessary, and as supposing e distinction between American subjects unfavourable to the Noble Lord's own argument. The.motion was accordingly negatived; as were also two others, the one for limiting the duration of the Bill to the period of one year, and the other for an immediate adjournment. The remaining clauses were read and agreed to ; after which, the report was received, and the third reading fixed for Tuesday next.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Glasgow Road Bill was read a brat and second time. The Irish Quit Rests, the Irish Landlords and Tenants, the Irish Paper reguladon, the Stone Bottle, the Sugar, and the Coal Rills, went through Committees. The American Convention, and the Waterford Harbour Bills, were read a third time and passed, The Salt, the Smuggling, and the Demerara Bills, were read a second time, and committed for Friday. The House went into a Committee on the Report of the Rape Seed Committee. A Resolution was agreed to fur imposing a duty of 2d. per cwt. on Rape Seed imported. The Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Report of the Holyhead Harbour Committee was brought up and laid on the table. An account of the Expense of making a Sewer for draining Mary.la-bonne Park, was ordered to be laid before the House. Mr. LAMBION moved the House to go into a Committee on the Property Protection Act. In the Committee, leave was given to bring in a Bill for the more effectually putting an end to the destruction of Collieries and machinery of every description by riotous Persons. The Bill was afterwards brought so and read a first time. Mr. I. NMI TH presented a Peti.ion from the Manufacturers of Nottingham, praying for certain regulations fur their relief, in respect to cotton manufactures. It was laid on the table. Mr M. A. TAYLOR presented a Petition from Christ-church against the Bill for preventing the destruction of oalinon. Mr. CA ICRAY observed, there were compLiints in his neighbourhood of the Bill; and he hoped, as they scented to be pretty general, the Bill would not be persevered in this Session. I he Petition was laid on the table. Ihe Report of the Mad-house Bill was ordered to be further considered on Monday next. Sir J. NEWPORT said, that he sbould next Session propose to extend the provisions of the Bill to Ireland. Mr. RO4E. assured the Right Han. !brow that he wouldlive his cordial co-operation in such a measure. The Report of the Expiring Laws Committee was brought up and agreed to. The :Myer Coinage Bill went through a Committee. In a Committee of Ways and Means the sum of .83,^00,000 was ordered to be applied to the ►ervice of Great Britain, and 5k1,1100,900 fur Ireland. The Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report was brought up. The Bid for repealing certain Duties on Wash and Spirits was read a first time. Second reading this day. I be Irish Yeomanry Bill was read a second time, and com mitted for this day. In a Committee of Supply, the Estimate for the disembodied Militia was referred to the consideration of the Committee. A aunt of E 150,600 was voted for defraying the charges of the disembodied Militia; and .€lOO,OOO for Ireland. Report this day. TRINITY HOUSE. Mr. BIRCH, adverting to the Account from the Trinity House, in which a sum of £lO,OOO was sta ted in the receipts, wished to-know how that sum had been applied ? Mr. ROSE had no objection to the Honourable Member's moving for any Accounts which he might conceive would throw a light on the affairs of that CorpotAtion. Mr. BIRCH then moved for a variety of Accounts respecting Pilotage Receipts and Balances, the In vestments in the eublic Funds, &c. Stc.—Or(Wed. T/IE REY OP ALGIERS. Mr. BROUGHAM asked, whether, notwithstand ing the late Treaty with the Dry of Algiers, certain British vessels had not been captured by that Power? Mr. B. BATHqRsT replied, that no official ac counts of any capture had been received by Govern ment. Mr. BROUGHAM then gave notice, that he would move for the production of the Treaty on Tuesday. Mr. WROTTESLEY gave notice, that he should to-morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill to secure the purchase of Lands under acmes of the Courts of Equity. Sift THOMAS THOMPSON. Mr. CALCRAFT rose to move (or a new writ for the election of a Member of Parliament for the town of Rochester, in the tom of• Sir T. B. Thomp son, made Trta;urer of Greenwich Hospital. The Hottoura:Jle Gentleman observed, the question was one of great impertance to the elective franchise of the kingdom ; and he was induced to bring the sub ject forward, in consequence of a petition from his constituents, complaining that their rights had been invaded. The Act providing that the acceptance of a N.tval or Military Commission immediately led to the vacating the seat of the Member accepting such office. But the queuion before noticed was got rid of, in consequence ofa doubt in law. If, then, any doubt really existed, it became the House to decide in favour cf the people rather than of themselves.— He took a review of the case as it came under discus sion on a former occasion, contending that the aim logy then insisted on did not actually exist with re ference to Sir T. Thompson. In the case of Mm. 13aker, appointed to the same station in 1; :3 that Gentleman, as a matter of course, vacated his scat. He saw no g distinction between the two cases. The right of maintaining his seat was a question purely supporting the prerogative of the Crown, and not the rights of the people. He moved a Resolution, pro posing that the office was not a Military or Naval ono, intending to follow it up, if carried, by moving a new writ. Mr. BATHURST conceived that the more direct way of proceeding would have been for the Gentle. man to have moved for a new writ at once. But, in tact, the question was one for Parliamentary decision, and. on all occasions Parliament had looked at the measure as a military one. Now, with respect to the appointment, certainly it was, strictly speaking, a mi. litary one. But though the Hun. Gentleman would not adniit there was any analogy in the cases, stilt it was analogous to the construction put on it by the decision of Parliament. He Could not think that a person in the situation of Treasurer, having con troul over the funds of the Hospital, was to be consi dered in any other than a military point of view, and therefore he was prepared to contend that. the .ap puintment was as much a military one as that of a Master or Governor of the Hospital. But the Hon. Gentleman had contended that the vacation of Mr. Baker in 1736, was a case in point. He, however, must say, that though the seat of Mr. Baker ta as then vacated, still, in other casts, n• vacation had taken place. The practice of Parliament, since that time, had proceeded upon different grounds ; and no doubt, that would sank* the non-intericrence in the pre tlbilt instance. He should, therefore, Tautly negative upon the present motion, by ing , il.t s . previogts question.—The gallery was ti.en a division—For the original motion G 9 —F„ rt L: vious question 63.—N1aprity agatitst Miqisttn, A new Writ was then ordeted for knelterer. ;* room of Sir T. Thompson, who has vacated Li s by accepting a place. Lc TT ER lES. • Mr. LYTTELTON rote to call Ole auntie, of the House to the subject of Lotteries. Th„ ij nourattle Gentleman noticed the mischieveus rice, of this specks of public revenue, and vas ennui,,, ; ; that if a proper impression wasemade en ee l mind, it would not be !mg before the evil yti& completely abolished. He ref :reed te the wen, c e ist i by Lotteries, which he took for granted no 41 , 0 .„, per annum, to 5.50 or re 560,000. "Pie tickets contracted for at a given sum, and tree se.. Contractors sold 40,000 out et 6(4000 tlOws, rate of £'2s per ticket, though some soli as l e e, „ sea ; this salt took out of the rickets of t l e £l,ooo,ooo . annually. If they did net sell the they contrived to have two-thirds in (h .q. hands tip ,; which they raised the prices, thus levyin g gre „, contributions upon the poorer classes, arid g. m ., (iir secured the great priers in their owa hands. years since illegal insurances were a greet measures had been taken to suppress that part evil of Lotteries; but, notwithstanding tine ace el furnished shewed, that within the tun last the numbers convicted of insulin., or, ia . words of Mr. Hesse, of " doing businte , ," atnnete e i to 116 in the first year, and filty.five in Ile. see He stated two cases, the one of a man ntine'd a principal Ofticer of Lease, who W i Bow -street, and charged by two women and a ree f with taking illegal insurances, and me being ehle t 3 rebut the charge. was committed to ". prenalce ey e months, and this upon the oaths of two info rmers . On his liberation, the Commissioners of Lucite rein. stated him in his situation, and pa Li Hat up the ie . rears of his salary. He stated ant.thcr case of 4 grocer in Carnaby.market, who was sent to gaol fur late same period, on the oaths of similar persons. Tlte names of these informers were BlibAra Taylor, Amelia Wright and J. Hughes. The third case which he would mention was, that of Martha Kira, who kept a paetry-eook's shop in Crap's Inn-lace. That person was taken before the .lagistrates Bow -street, but there being only ore present, snisl-e, not liking to appear again, absented herself from home, and her son applied to Mr. Hesse, who rt. tented to compromise the charge by allowing her to pay down sea to the informers. The Honour3 2 Gentleman then observed upon the present rt rwc ci drawing the Lotteries, which was calculated to kr:p up the irritation in the public mind. The expense of Commissiorers was very great. S , me are ern Toyed at salaries of .050 a year ; others had the namte rt. ceived £2OO d year, lived in the ceentry, and did en. thing. The whole expense to Government he one Jere. mg this species of gambling was from 13 to .e 16,004 year. He trusted the cemmon sense and feeling of e:e House would be against sop porting the Government in keeping a public gambling table, winch eel:Atte! the people, weakened their industry, and depte:et their morals. There was this grand objection to this gambling concern, that it tended to delude tne igno rant and plunder the poor. It was not deestel against the rich and higher orders in the State; three was no gambler of the higher classes that ever thought of laying out his money in such a Inelish speculation. But Ire was not quite sure that State Lotteries did not encourage gambling. He contetehd that Government had no right to t imper with the follies or vices of the ignorant, nor to till their Trte , sury by means so utterly destructive to 311 the poll. ciples of sound morality and of social happiness. tie read an extract from the Report of the Committees Lotteries of 180 S, whkh generally condemns en 7 Lottery system ; and concluded with moving a lop. lotion declaratory of the general evils of Lout-res. and pledging the House to concur its the ahcslishra,lit of that desci hieien of revenue. Mr. BERNARD MO R LAND seconded she nes tints. The argument for Lotteries arising nut of we necessities of the war, had been done away by the re turn of peace. All the same reasons which leaf Is:. ,rated with the Chancellor of the Exchtquer tr•r stire pressing the Little.go Lotteries might, in his ' T ito , to operate still more strongly for di:coil:inning the Great State Lottery, as in a flinch greater direr diffusing the spirit. of gambling, and inciting to voce and crime. Lotteries were the ;mune of many Levis!! penal enactments. He thought it most unjust in 10 Legislature to encourage the p.tssion for gaming, ar,.l then make laws to punish those veto were Om; IA away. It reminded him of the character it atintratf Governments given by a Nobh. Political Writer. ss.io says, that they resemble the 1)...vil in many respect., and particelarly in this, that he is both the rentrr and tormentor—ht. mal:es the criminal, and ilea punishes the crime. It produced inarite eel:unity among the poor of the Metroptdis; a. it was is ev;.- dence, that during the Lott?ry they doir'ed thtruelset and their families the usual zscrtion of strbsitteNce. that they might have wherewithal to ind;ige th.s vice, and it appeared that clime prevailed most 1 f all at that period. By the form in which Ln't'l Acts are passed, we presont to the Thome, az a !.1.•.: , t boon and source of profit to his Mirsty, that ...I . '::1 is to promote vice, and r,ccasiun zal.:nitty and tl , t; , among the poorer classes of his subjects. He ce .• eluded by lamenting the loss of the late Ivlrmtrr I r Bedford, who had been so zeelotts and el -iiticr, , : opposing Lotteries; and hoped that tit: lion. :.... •-• ber who had now taken up the subject would pa , it unremittingly till•he was crowned with stieees The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQ;.:I:. ' thought, it the nature of Lotteries was such i4s :1: Honourable Mover had reprelented, tt...re would no necessity ! tr the ire.-sent mt.sti .n, t1,...y woeltl . ••• • dwindle away cf tltttic•elvcs. Tile evil wcu;d evr , •l its own cure with it. Ile was not at present rtiv,..:: of any method by which A60(,000 a 'ear cqule t: raised with so little hurthen annually as ti:e ktPie.( l - 1) raised by Lotteries was. It was a volunta: y t.x 1.11 by the l'ulriic on tlevmselves. They b• ugh: s!itirrt :•-r . tickets, for which they p (id a certain I.t:ce, in luT:i of an advantage which 'they might derive from .0 disposing of their money.. It, however, the Ilia,oti: • able Gentleman could advise any better sonice •;: revenue, he (the Chincellor of the Excheqeel j w ti..l most readily adopt it. The great argum. nt ...:4 , : , 5t Lotteries, however, appeared to be a collateral I.:1;1 • .I• .~ . 1 •• lt: C 1 I I I ' i