Star. — London, England, 1804-03-20 00:00:00

Cate Atwell Ile jeunied . Wr. Offileav The l Mr. I leg we sinew The I fed ter That edited t Take I Tbe I al Yea Mr. es wag bee rel ' Alf% have be Mr. Day. Bill. the HI with tl Were coma to tall the pri had be farms in that *oh Sri in in On of Irel would hare I Saner nth brats aeon watt the U Led. 11ac IMMO drew elad d do se teem whale mete Maki *at a Whet let Go , heal MOO Souk "ait er tut as& Seek any in Aid.. young this to visit L e :: • them of the dee 4 Velma end C be eon Maki twos ix pat came mete Atari rage. seer I rrha Irrupt rah" • plied Valk reri in the if Deg relit be pu took quart of di ding trout the C hock not it atoll mans to du Meet the d very r, Gent wheel He h oae ttf ito the el to no the el that p artk not p PARLIAMENTARY - PROLEEDINCS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, MARCH '9. Co:WA were heard In cootinsation In the care of finning c. Abercrombie. Tike various Mk oo the Table were forwarded one Itage....td • jeunroi. Wr. ALT Oita' Ilia HOUSE OF COMMONS. DER brought up the Nina of Ida Militia The Turnpike Road Bill sras read a fated thee. Mr. ALL7CANDER brought oopp the Report et die Bill for Mr - two Iddhoso by Ezebeeper to be read a third tlecarpanv Sarkis Lair* MI woo read a (aged door, and month for loosorroot. The Stser Warehoures dig was read a feeasd thaw, and eon. adtted for to-aairraw. The Ma Mal& &rallies Dlll ens reed a feeend time. The MilforWeb/.the Minor of Weft Dan" In the county was rend a lemma time. SWOONS TAIL Mr. °RIGOR, .fear • few ebtaestirete. toortd far an aoteoht title umber et from which affelliecatc have bete realties ! to the Terellke, with die fume dread. Aro, ter en moue of thatealluids from whirl es eirdscets hove Woe reccivetotii tide meting were mind is • 7OLUIITIItiI •ILL. Mr. Seeretarz the Order of the Day. for.the further eoldlcieration of the Arl iuntsw Bill. He then obfervad. that he wilhed to addreft Houle for a num titek, on the fubjeft =madded with this Bill. which had occafioned a good deal or obfervatioo. It related to that claufe in the Bill. =waning the time when his hiajelly is empowered Call out the Volunteers. It was is page to. of _ e printed Bill. The words e United Kingdom." had been particularly adverted to. as having been fareeptitioully introduced. He hoped no Gentleman is that Houk would fuppok be could have farrepli. *sty introduced ,any clank whoever. When be Kra introduced this Bal. he intended it to be appli. cpble to both Great Br itain . and Ireland and he be lieved. that I. his ppm% (peed). he had Sated, that e power of his Ay to call out the Volunteers Gnat Beitain, would milk in the cafe of invidion . Ireland, =pally as is that of Great Britain. He would sot be pofitive about the espreffions he might have *fed. but he thought he mentioned that einem. Sine & Is the Bal. as it was fun committed oaths sash of Menem is the daufe. noting, that on the imam of the gamy. or the appearance of the enemy is fora os theme. ice. the word " Realm" was eyed. which he Intended. more effecially fince the Union, to apply both to Geist Entails and Ire. laid, or, is other words , to the United Kingdom. The ideifes of the Bill, which related to Ireland. were afterwards Brack antes account of the peculiar eiressollimees attending the Iti& Volumr Corps. and the words " United Kingdom" were minted. to do away all difficulties. The Bill has fine been twice reitememitasd. end meg primed. without any notice whatedee' Whig been taken by Gendemea of this seatter. & had Rated thafe fads. natty to jellify hitsfelffeest my goads imput ation, and to New altar wedeln had leen fertnp=doidy _added. He emor zr=l:r im, tftem on that with moving that the Report Ma Imo cesederation. Gond TARLETON raid, that be Ihoold avail binllidfof the preant opportunity to freak opon the =Med the Me and rub= to the Houk his to .parts of it. He was aware that he AIWA fabjee himfeif to oblomay.for the partite was 'about so takes bat at fo momentary a crifts as the pram, be could sot refrain from making fuels ani. madverfinos as be *might the Bill deferved, and nomrithilanding, face the enseiny_as boldly as say mu. A ;fight Hon. Geodesists (W. Pitt) had Aid, that we were engaged in a contell, of which the yoaasea man alive may not fee the like. Taking this a be not only a potbk, but s probable cafe, what lunation were we in to entry on the come*, if =d for my time Here the Honourable 1 1( reminded Minitiers of the advice be gave them on a former (Keeton. refpefting the dikipline e the Makin. and contended, that however great *kir. Ink 'y. and perfeverance of - the iolunteers.and however deferving of Inch a country and Costainetion were the people, yet that they may be compered without dlkipline. He thould content Wahl/ with &aerating the volition he advanced by two Along cafes. Was there any want of courage ar patriotnot in this country. when the Romans over came its people ? No; Roman difeipline alone tri umphed over Britifh valour. What but Norman difesplim, is like manner, could defeat Bridal cou rage. and fan,. viQorf t In looking at the Volun. leer Syllens. with reference to times pall, it was whips the bell that could be inftituted apinA the inspects of the enemy ; but when the war atoold perhaps be carried on for years again& a foe. who polLifed fuch immenfe refources within, with no its. confideraltle navy, and having at his difpobi the greatel army on the face of the earth, it was incest. bent, therefore, on his Majeßy's Minillers, to provide time againfl consequences which may be ruinous, neglell fhonld pervade the military department at relent. The Hon. General then detailed the condua purfued in the revere, dittrias, the pnfitions he took in order to repel any bonds attack in that quarter. and concluded l.is oblervations on that part rf the fithjeet, with a charge of improper condo& taiufl a volunteer corps in Drilled, whore ConlinAn. ling Offices refufed to trattfmit the General's indent, rzeadiug himfelf by that he was governed by the Committee of die Corps, which decided that the barks belonged to the Members of the Corps, and not to Government. The feeond charge was sgatott another Corps, which behaved in a very diforderly manner on parade, of %slue ti he made a tcprelintati( n to the War Office. hot lie received no anfw er (~r a month ; and then it was recimmended to Lim to fettle the di fference amicably. Thor cafes he conidered ver y muc h to hire the Volunteer Sy Item. In order to prove the evil evnlegnence of exemptions, the Hon. General infiancsd the fecond battalion of Referve, which was deficient flill fitg of its proper number.— . _ to had ender hot commend two battalions of Militia, one of throe the Wood Wiltfhite, which wanted 70 4 its conopietnent, and yet the Lot d Lie.itenant of the county was as inattattgahle a% min could be. but to no purpoli, men could not tic had on Account of the exemptions. Tor a prt,ol of the complete itop that was pet to recruiting the rtmtiar army. he Ilsoold inform the Houle, that there were eighteen parties in Pcml.r-4:cflitre for form time, vi... could not procure more th.An toenlcen rectutta, .iiid eleven parties in Birmingham, whq recruited no more than eleven men It was obvious. therefore, that lodge lite's blood lhould be infufed into the army. He &wild fugr o l: i n order to attain his (Nee, that the balloting be revived, and the Army of Referee completed. As many of the firft daft ought to be brought into the fervice as would meet the danger which threatened us, fuppofing that from the circum ft.ince of the ;area of Moreau, 01 from any other cattle a convulfion or counter revolution happened, we could not difpofe of so or 25.000 troops perhaps bet ter than by landing them on the enem y'scosta ; yet how could 'we fend fuch a force at prefent. lacked up as the youth and efficient ftrenph of the country was in the Volunteer Syßem? He &mild only fay. that he was not bigoted to his own opinion. and &sold !cave the Houle. therefore, to adopt or rejea his fuggeftions. Mr. CARTWRIGHT approved generally of the idea of the Volunteer Syftem, but thought it had been carried to too great as event ; he tore. how ever, principally to objea so that claufe which af fated the right of refition. Mr. ERSKINE Paid, that if the claufe remained as it was. then no perfois, who bad agreed for the war. could have the power of refigning. Now, it Ihould be enafidered, upon what ground did the [ judgment given en the King's Bench proceed ? Not 'on the duration of the &nice. but on the nature of i foram. The duration was confidersd to be as tias the danger appeared. But many Officers recently pat it to their Corps. " Will you, tin el the knowledge of this right of refignation, agree to volunteer for she war i" Whenever this was agreed to by &Corps, it was a new engagement, and a complete waver of the original right; they give up the right with a perk!, knowledge of the judge ment ; that wa. quits a different thing, and flood on its own grounds. The elude appeared to be mach too generally waded; it ought to be altered fo as it may not area an ellablithed right; be &odd then, for one, find no difficulty in calling out his Corps, and putties the "tali= to them, will you ferve for the whole war I He never had bat one feeling on this &Nee, a feeling perfealy confonant to that of the Right Hon. Gentleman oppolite to him, that a man was bound to give hircountry his kmice as long as the danger IaIW. to fail his pronsife, or be surfed with evalaffing infamy. But the only difference be had with many was, whether the Volunteer was bound as to the duration of his Cervices, by ho nour, or by AR of Parliament ? be apprehended there was no wakes as to the duration, but only as to the nature of the amazement, whether it was binding or honorary. Mat he bould recommend was, so mske the dank perfealy clear, that the Volunteers may rags. except where, by fubfequent ;centment, a different engagement is formed. Par and Gamesman had hitherto kept perfea faith with that eseellent body of men ; he was confi dent they would coatings to do fo in this inflame, and that the Volunteers would thew their gratitude for the liberality and honour with which they were treated; and whenever the French &add invade this country, would. by their ended, give the heft anfwer to the twiddling that had been made upon them. By the As, the King accepts the offered kr vice of Volunteers. It then becomes a Coltman en gagement. a fared obligation. and they cannot be called beyond their fervice offered and accepted, ex cept when the caseate of the r ero g ative called out. the whole d his Majcily's &bras to the defence of the country. Under Oust ambulances did the Bill come before the Houfe ? Not to alter the original conakutioe of the Volunteers, not to call them be yond their offered ferries, but only to amend and confolidate the Ass, preferring the original pried ples of thA excellent inftitution. It was not a quer tion about the iocreafing of the dangers, for, under the gircunlauces in contemplation of the Ait, it might be more honourable to court them ; but it labials to an additional difeipline, and to Martial Law, not in the view of the perfons when their offers were accepted. From the moment an enemy appeared off the Irifh Cosa, Government might, if they **fah put the whole of the Volunteers Of Eng. land under martial law. If by the igvafion of Ire• land it were ever smeary to call out the country to arms, while the regulars were fent over to the fitter Mind, he fhould be the lag man in the kingdom 10 1 objea to it : but be did not think that the Volun t ought to be called forth to do what was not in their original contras; fo high was his opinion of that body of men, that he was the more defirous that Go. Ira-meat &mild prefetve a paha faith towards them. Another point he walled to allude to, was that refpeaing moans and their fervants and ap. premien. He did not think the lalt dela iption of perfons fhould be allowed to enter the Corps agausft their mailer's defire. The relations of matter and fervent were very important. In all he bad faid, he had only in view the prefervation of the inftitution The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was of opinion, that the diteufflon of there points was premature at the preterit moment ; but acknowledg ed that the Volunteer fyllem ihnold be preferred in all its integrity and feeurity, and that the faith pledged to them by Government Ilsoulti moll rigidly and Set upulonfly be adhered to. Mr ran over the whole of the objet 1 no, which he had urged apsinii the bill its its Punier liages, and declared, ilia' if there were nut removed, lie flmuld much rather objed to the bill altogether, than to permit it to par. in its pyres' hum. Much better leave the Volunteer fyftem as it flood before, than clang it with amendment. which rendereted it liable to mote objections and inconvenience than would have attended it in its ori ginal %ape. Mr. Secretary YORKE f.dd, that however am. petent it might be to rake away the exemptions, when *he right of tefignation was allowed :—yet the public faith being new pledged for them, they could not he withdrawn, without exciting a violent feniation. He did not think it probable that the Commandir7 Office, of a Corps would be likely to dit..llow do, of drill as a title to exemption, when the number neeelfary was near being completed, as there was an alternative of puttifhments, by fine or joirvatirri of ray. As to the provifion adverted to by the Honourable Gentleman. be had no oSjeeion to biing it moo their ideas, by making its opera two criminate* after the palling if this ail. He de fended the clank relating to fervants and apprentices by wcreace to the Defence AEI, to which the Vo. hmteer fuflem was firbilitntel In trintion and the 'others great towns, particularly in the manuf.i.thiring diltrifts, the proportion of apprentices in the V.). lunteer Corps was very great. In Tome of the ma• ntifaduring dithiEtc, fervants and apprentices fotm• ed the principal part of the population. He thought the belt mode of providing for the pay would he by a feparate maitre, by an effimate and a vote of Parliament, as in the Cafe of t h e Militia, an . l other parts of our armed force. He confidered the boun ty allowed by the bill iuffi.:ient to provide fuch ne ceffaries as (liquid be wanted. The Qlarter ten General of the Diftriftt had a fitificrent quantity of knaplacks and canteens co dilhibute, in cafe the Volunteers (hould be called nut for long fervice, but he hoped there things would not be wanted but in cafe of emergency, as they were not abfolutely neceffary. As the puni(hment of imprifonment was propofed to be limited to three days. and there would be in many ingiances a great difficulty in re moving the offenders to a legal prann ' he thought it better to leave that out altogether. He thought it hell to give (even days notice before the levying of the difirefs, in order that the offender, or his friends, may have an opportunity of preventing the dillrefs, by making up the money. As to the difficulty which the Hon. Officer (General Tarle ton) had in procuring an orderly dragoon from the Yeomanry, he had only to obferve, that the Voluir teen were not at the command of the Generals of the ditirids, unlefs in cafe of invafion, or lacing on permanent duty, nor was it advi fable That they &odd. It was true that here. and in many other places, they were ready in all inflames to obey fisch command, for the improvement of their difopline, and they bad the benefit of the exemption. The Right Hon. Secretary alfo entered into tome expla. nation of the circunaftances of the difpute in the Vo. lunteer Corps alluded to by the Hon. General. General T aaaaa on explained on thee two points. Mr. WISITIIIIIAD explained alto. Mr. T. I wilhed to know in what nate the difctiffion was, whether it was in that Qate that the principle was to be debated The SPEAKER (aid, the immediate quellion be. fore the Houfe was, that this report be now taken into confideration : then, would come the quell...on that Mere amendments be read a fecund time ; after which, the further quellion that tilde amendments be now read a third time. Mr. KINNAIRD was not defirons, if it was the fenfe of the Houfe to defer the debate on the Bill, to prefs his opinion now. He, however, thought he &Gold do his duty belt, by oppofing the confederation of the report altogether. The bill was a defective fupplensent to a crude endigefted (theme of defence. It totally dried op the fources that fupplied oar re gular army, and prevented the univerfal training of the male population of the country. Sir WILLIAM YOUNG thought that the prefent Bill went to cur op the whole volunteer fyfiem by the roots. By impaling 6ne, erre& and imprifon mem, it entirely did away the idea of free vnil, which was the fpirit on which alone a voluntary fyf tem could be founded. Mr. BRAGGE Paid, that there was net the snot dißant allufion to imprifonment in the Bill. The only fine was a forfeiture of a day's pay in cafe of milcoodult, and it was ouly in that event that mili tary arreß was competent. Alluding to what had., fallen from General Tatham, he left It to the Gene ral to fay, if it would have been natural in him to expel that a Gentleman who bad engaged as a Vo- lunteer in a particular diftria, and wh o his own honk &mild have ellesuted himfelf bound, at the requeß of an Infpeaing General, to travel the dillance of twelve miles, in the .midi of a heavy rain, to carry any commands which that Infpcaing General might have to impart to another corps?— Or, if that was a fervice which could have been in the contemplation of any perfon entering into !itch a Volunteer Corps I Mr. ALEXANDER fupported the Bill. Mr. FOX Paid, that he had fevers, points to which he **abed to call the attention of the Houle. As, however, Minifters, in this advanced Rage of the Bill, had dircovered two claufes, which they sallow. ledged mere complete breaches of their good faith with the Volunteers, which would induce them, if no perfun elk did, to move the recommitment of the Bill, he fhnuld referee any obfervationb whirl he bad to make till that time. The quellion for the farther coofideration of the Report was then pot and carried. The fecond reading of the amendments having been moved by Mr. Secretary Yorke, a converfution on the point of order took place, in which the Speaker, Mr. Grenville, Mr. Windham, Mr. Yorke, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Bragge, took a part ; when the Speaker (fated to the Houfe that the quellion, which it was now his duty to put, was, that the amend twents be now read a fecond time. Mr. CHARLES W. WYNNE oppofed the Bill. Mr. FOX laid, that it could now make no material difference, whether the obfervations which he had intended to offer were made in the prefent Sage of the Bill. or in a recommitment. Etery Gentleman in the Houfe mutt be aware, that it was not the ob• jell of the Honourable Member who (poke Jai! to throw nut the Bill. but to have it recommitted. in order that a meafure, which was worth nothing it flood, might. if pcill ble. be rendered worth fume. thing. He was for recommitting the Bill. fir the time reafon that at prefent he would be for throwing it out altogether. He was for recommitting it, be cattle he was of opinion, that if palled in its petfent ()tape. the Government of this Country would be held out to the public enimation in the molt con temptible light in which any Government had hither to flood. He profefed himfelf by no means inimi. cal to the voluntary force of the country. He agreed that that fyftem. whether gond or bad, was the only defence nn which this country had now to rely.— The &keit,' features in this fyliern had been (rise rienced. and the attention of Miniflers had been en deavoured to be diretted towards them eatly in the preen' learn of parliament, and previous to the re cefs, and had been rejeaed with (corn. No revifititi of the fyllem wilt then deemed neceffary. Farhat meet met OD the sad November. and now on the sBth of March not one mea(ure had been adopted 1.4 ittengshening the defence of the country. The whole of this momentous concern was entrufled to the Bil' now lying on the table. Parliament bad now been fittiog for four months ; no pep bad, daring ehi, pe tiod, bees takes tur reuniting the army, us arm) I, of refetiee l all refled on tile aotiontal'v deft. i ee. acs4 the incline Bill contained every nie.foie of vigour; of precaution, or encouragement. scLich that lytteui had been deemed capable of receiving. h then be denied diet thelneatere which had aldne been re• forted or was calculated ti expofe to the Public the incapacity and inbecility of Coventment, and to es pole ihe oeeedings of Parliament to derition aid contempt ? Let thole mod fond of the prefent till fair in what refine it had added to the fafety or de ka:cc of the country. Some chutes undoubtedly had berm introduced by other Menthe's, not con. cetned in the introdittlion of the meafure, to con. cent its notbingnefs; but, after all, what did it con tain ? He declared that he bad a. high a refpea for the Volunteer force of the country as any man could have. Every man was botind to etteem It. as on it mull our defence in a great ineafure depend. But what pecnliar excellencies o eie to be found in this Bill, which could tall forth and increafe the seal, or animate the exertions of the Volunii•er. There were none fuch. It was entirely computed of tubaltern re; gulations, of regulations rather calculated to difgull; than to animate and encourage. 'They were taken bound to perform duties, and to (antic to depriva dons which were sot in their contemplation at the time they offered their Cervices. In cafe of an info,- renion is Ireland, or of a threatened invafion of that country, every man in England, be his avocations what they might. were, by the prefent Bill, to bi called out into aaual ferrite, and made Cubic& to military law. Could any man think that the Volun: teens of Great Britain ever meant to undertake fuch ap obligation t Minifiers might indeed have defired them to look at this Bill, and then have informed them that they mull Band to their bond. But, could fuch a nipulation have been in the contemplation of the Volunteers, when they enrolled themfelvest Let any man look at the AR, under which the cervices of the Volunteers were accepted. and they will fee that they were to lie marched only in the event of a rumour of invafton or actual landing on the coigns, and judge, whether the words Guest Britain, uni formly accompanying thole ilipulations throughout, the coals of Great Britain alone were not in the con templation of the Volunteers, at the time of entering into (itch an engagement ? The Right Hon. Gentle man might, no doubt, avail himfelf of the technical expreffions in the prefent Ad to give (upport to fuels a plea. The Volunteers might have other battles to fight with Milliners. They had already conquered them, but it was only by flaw degrees. When they beat them out of one trench. Minitters betook them.. (elves to another. When the Vulunteen gained the power of reliving, that power was endeavoured to be limited to one half of their number. It was raid. however, that theft two objetlionable chafes fbould be dose away. That they had !trod in the Bill from the beginning, and might have been fooner perceived. He, for one, confefled, that the interpretation which one of thole claufes was capable of receiving had never occurred to him. He thought thofe Gentlemen who introduced the Bill might have pointed out the in. teepretation s which they mon hare been aware the claufe waszapabk of receiving, is an earlier nage of the Bill, and not have referred it till the bringing op of the Report. Had it not been for the jealous caution of a Learned Gentleman who (poke in as early part of the debate. the clank now alluded to might have been allowed to refs in its equivocal nine, which would have been a graft violation of the faith pledged to the Whitacre'. The other data s it mon be admitted, had sot been objeited to now for the firfi time. The unjust tendency of it had been pointed out in the Committee, by an Hon. Member under the gallery. It was then, however. defended by &Gainers ; and now, for the firft time, they are pleafed to give up this pot alto to the Volunteers.— All mankind had agreed in the right of Volunteers to refign. except the Chancellor of the Exchequer. who bad not been able to form any opinion on die Coble!; at Iran, if he had, he teemed tefolved to keep it to himfelf Finding they could not do better, Mi lliners had at length brought in the prefent Bill. They had at firl denied the right of refigning : the Court of King's Bench fanaioned that right. The chute now alluded to took it away; and the Honourable Gentleman hoped that the decifion of this day would again rellore it. He believed by the chide, as it flood at prefent, a great majority would be de prived of this right. But it was Paid they might re• fig% on giving fourteen days notice. It was, however. undoubtedly the opinion of Volunteers. that they might do fo at pleafure, without any notice whatever. Let it be recolleacil. that they were told an the in of February, that the threatened invallon might take place in the fhortefi poffible period, and now on the tath of March we are again to be informed. that 1+ days notice mull be given by any Volunteer delirous of refigning. Thus, had it not been for the attention of the Learned Gentleman (Mr. Erlkine), and the Hon. Member under the gallery. fimilar difputes might have been revived. A new opinion of the At. torney General. and a new Bill to explain the opi nion of Moiling. might have been necefrary. Butt were tittle the only objenionable claufes in the Bill There are cafe, in which a Naos may forfeit his er. emptions by rion.attendance, probably for twelve days, even when labouring under indifpofition. It is e:ite he may regain his privilege by attending other twelve days, but how is this to be accomplillied ? Is cis Corp. to be called out 141 park tt. enable him thus to qualify bionfelf t The thing was ridiculous ; Knitters were deceiving the Voltinteets, and bolding out ;o them iminunuin which they could never Aftother circumflance which bad been noted by an Honourable Friend of his (Mr. Whitbread) lie thought was particularly deferring of antic*. Would any man ferioully fay, that 44 days fervice. in la. homing of the ground. could be taken away from e farmer without injury to him ? It was well known that contentiosie did fulifin between mailers and fer vent', and that the latter were often ready to take every advantage. No man could view the faaltion given by that chief, to a petunia of this fort is say other light thee as a kind of robbery. The time of an apprentice was his matter's, not his own; by a folemn coottaA it had become fo as awls as any either property whatever. Yet. by the peeing Bill. apprentice. ar e (educed from those mallet's lervice. and an indoeement is held .nit to them to nerleft his hufillefs• It is :aid that a compenfation will be g iven; rit to whom t Not to the mailer. feet t.. the •P4'€°' tics. In the cafe of any improvesarri 1 1 11 4 11 0 . ti..lll awned on, which occafi 4111 the spa ..f any private property. to whom is e rosktei