Star. — London, England, 1816-02-29 00:00:00

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HOUSE OP COMMONS, FEBRUARY U. ik from made y presented an Account of the In. ...„, ao bed be to the Salaries of the Commissioners r - gbo d ae and Excise, as alto to the law Officers of the ppiigadend, since the tat of Joinery, 1815. Ordered to l obe table, and to be per-c.f. o ro. CLERK, in rising pursuant to his notice to move for brieg in a MU for aseertairing and estabilehing a unifor- Ow r ehass and measures to be used throughout the klog- '" ..wo Magid it necesory to call to the recollection of the House iodatoo T am egos Ctunmittee had been appointed to consider meet, Wins upon the 14 eport of this Committee that the he whited to bring hi was tonaded.' Howse The Hse would deck was necessary for hint to go into a detail of-the incurs. t e a t were felt from the want of any . e nifor p it y in the Aits sod awasures. The only alteration that was proposed 0 7 k .a l eseiSure of capacity. It was also proposed to adopt odaideesirdupois instead of the Troy weight, as the former „affely ouch more generally used. The standard measure ' 1- o d ad, it was known, had beeq.Beed by au Act of Kur e l ' to whin 2150 cubical itlaarn; whereas it had been ace' bey the Committee that the standard bushel measure wait Esehequer contained only 2i 24 cubical inches. Thee a mew proportional deviation or difference front the i bed by the Act of William, to all the lesser measteree' oke, quart, iv.) kept in the Exchequer. The new stem . jowl which it was now intended to establish, would eon ., pounds weight of pure water at the tanperatue eof 56 Wltsreolseit'ahermorneter which was equal to 1121 s tub'. • ' Great advantage would be found from the simplicity die standard measures. Only cue measure of capacity .to v ied for all different articles, instead as formerly, a wine im dF r o ete,beer measure, Ste. Sufficient time would be allowed, op & operation of the Act was to commence, to allow the to be known in every part of the country, and =measures to be made, so that they might be at once wadi over the kingdom. He vets anxious that no ounces. Oki Amid take place, as already many complaints had ta ts him by the manufacturers et weights in different astif, that their trade was in a great degree suspended, in wpm 01 the enactment being expected.. It was therefore 1011111dee toprepose that the blanks of the Bill should be im posr mod op, and that it should be printed, in order that s wims miabt be generally known. He concluded by moving 010 8 le bring lathe. Bill. br a few words from Mr, W. SMlTH,expressive able ap ologist tithe new plan, and his wishes that it might prove sue. oaths NI was brought in, read a first time, and ordered to "mil a Mond time to morrow. • . ir 0. WARRItNDER brought up the Estimates of the t o g retoired fur the Transport iervice for the year 1816. Waal to lie eta the table, and to be !waned. itIt.WARD brought up an Account of the effective strength rth c o p o f R o yal kugineer. ' 51 on the 25th Deeember,lBl Disbar Account as to the Corps of Royal Artillery.—Oi. 'dab so tbe table, sal in bm printed. Ur. WSHINGION brought up (..vies of the Coereepoe. oc o dun ge the Treasury and the Board of Revenue, on the Odd Revenue Cutter" in 1S t5.--Ordered to lie on the table', n • bsprioted. osioN Stock Bill was read a second time, and ordered ; be comaitted no Friday. Mx. GOOCH rose tor the purpose of asking the Honourable deb a fortbefolk, whether he had flied tile day on which be neirdiobiegkeward the motion for repealing the Malt I as, oltidikektigfren notice ? He asked the question, because he rished to Mitres/tit when so important a slue/akin was agitated. ' Mr. CUE said he could not yet fir any day ; but thought It "Moot be until alter the Assizes. He would take care to give disuse timely noticed the day. _I,I Uri BlNSOlgbazor Wskwasordoned be Clerk of the Crown, for the election of a imaiissianer to serve In the priient farlianseot for the Shire of Worm ' in the room of the Hon. Charl e s Hope, who, since slretioo,ltas accepted the office of Steward of tie Chiltern iiiitted Bs Shop lifting Bill was read a second time, and ordered to on Friday. %Order of the Day for a Committee on the Convention kmerics, was postponed till Friday. PROPERTY TAX. A Petition was presented from certain inhabitants Borough of Montrose, against the Property It was read, and ordered to lie on the tAble. k GOOCH presented a Petition, signed by a number of the Landholders, Farmers, and tiden, in the Hundred of Lowell, in the County Sall me ok, complaining geuerally of the enormous ware of Taxes, especially the Property Tax, and ars o3ore exclusively affecting the agricultural in to. It was read, and brderect. to lie on the table. The same Member presented another Petition to a same effect, from a number of most respectable mom, Landholders and others, in the Hundred of Amused Carpen, in the same County, which was aio wad, and ordered to lie oa the table. fair SAMUEL ROMILLY presented a petition !loft:via inhabitants of the Borough of Arundel,! the Property Tax, He stated, that the pe wee-es understoud that a pledge had been given for tetrscootinuance of this oppressive Tax, as soon I the war should be terminated. It wail hardly , ,ectuetY fax him to say, how far his opinion coinci• re With that of his constituents. But he wished to 6 thit, the extlielt opportunity of correcting him- E;in a state men t w hi c h h e h a d made ye st e r day, m ove to the persecution of the Protestants in the ash of France. He had yesterday stated, that the tuber of houses destroyed in the Department of the Pad was two thousand. This was quite a mistake. net he ought to have stated was, that nearly that , "'her of individuals, of the Protestant persuasion,' eibe!ti robbed by the populace, under the pretence etrying contributions. The number of houses de ,efed was only 240. There was another error on issubject, which was not his. He had been tepte- Wed as having said, that the number of women eh! L ed been treated with indignity was 150 ; whereat uhe4 only said, that SO women had been abeam/. Wof these that eight bad died in consequence. He %eluded by moving, that the petition be read. Mr. JONES wished to take this opportunity of Wing his reasons for opposing the Property Tax.— ngh he _approved of the amount of the propcsed altery establishment, he by no means wisbcd Petite of that extensiye establishment to be defrayed the continuance of a tax of so unequal and op e a nature. Until th e p r e s ent military fervou der . uPoll the Continent, he felt how necessary it , 'raw ns to keep op a large army. His opinion 08 IN subject was not so much grounded upon an "Iteltason of a reaction in France, as from - the Isl. 1 , 1 2 11 , Preponderance of a great Continental power, ire dominions extended from the Sea of Azof to ~C 49 Ph of Bothnia, and which, not even conten -7211b such a p ro di g i ous extent of territory, had 7 11 _, *nest the whole ut Poland. He agreed with ' lll Vent writer, whouhl that Enaupe might one THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 29, 1816. day owe the preservation of its liberty to the military power of France and the naval superiority of Great Britain ; and on this principle he was not one of those who wished to see France curtailed of its due propor tioo of power. on the Continent. Yet, however ne. cessary it might be for this country to support, for some time longer, a great military force, there was no plea thereby afforded to justify the continuance of the Propeity Tax. He referred to the words of •the Noble Lord who had been Prime Minister of this country at the time of the Peace. of Milieus, on the occasion of his taking off the Property Tax on the conclusion of that peace. as :hewing the opinion of that Noble person to be, that the continuance of this Tax during peace was illegal. He would. be glad to know the opinion of that Noble Lord now. One great objection to this tax, independently of every other consideration, was this—that it bore so unequally on the poorer classes of society. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by animadverti*g on the sarcastic expres ,sions of an Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Heron) as to the .country being it covered with glory." He saw very plainly the disposition' which dictated this expression; but he would tell the Honourable Baronet that he be lieved there were very few in the country of thole wbe had labouted most under the burden of tuatiOn during the war, who would not cheerfully bear much greater privations rather than see this country run the' danger of becoming the province of some Continen tal Power—(hear, hear). Mr. 3erjeaut ONSLOW felt it his duty to enter his humble but solemn protest against the continn ance of the Property Tax in the time of peace. He had hoped that the nature of the tax, and the situa tion of the country, would have sufficiently proved to the Chancellor of the Exchequer die utter 'neve. diency of adopting such a measure in any shape.. However necessary it might be to keep up a large military establishment for sometime, he saw in that necessity no reason why the Property Tax should be continued, when there were so many other means by which the necessary supplies might be raised. A small loan would answer the purpose effectually ;_ and it was to no purpose to say, that by having re course to a loan the Funds would be injured, because he was informed by many Gentlemen, who were well acquainted with the state of the Funds and the money market, that a small lean would rather im prove; than depress the price of the public Stocks, Sir R. HERON having in the last Bessie!' voted for the continuation of the Tax, wished to state why he felt it his duty now to vote against it. It was his opinion that, during the war, it was a good way of raising the money necessary for carrying it on, be cause it procured coetribinions from the monied in tere,t and absentees. But in the time of peace it was very different; and there was no reason for its con tinuance. If money was required to support exten sive peace establishments, it ought to be raised by economy in the royal expeaditore, 'and by curtailing the Civil List. The Petition was then brought up, read, and or dci ed to.lie on the Table. General WEMYSS presented a Petition, signed by a number of respectable Landholders and Farmers in the County of Fife, praying for the repeal of the Property Tax, and representing that its continuance, during Peace, would be a breach of faith on the part of Government. On the question that this Petition should be brought up, • Mr. J. P.GRANT congratulated the House and the country on the arrival of Petitions from the more remote parts of the kingdom. Having himself very lately returned from Scotland, he could assure the House, that though this was the first, it would not be the last Petition from thence. He remarked, that this Petition 'hewed, notwithstanding the very digni fied and ingenious way in which a Right Honourable Gentleman opposite had endeavoured to explain it away, that the general impression throughout the country was, that the faith of Ministers was pledged against the contiquance of the Tax. The Petition was then brought up, read, and tie.' dered to lie on the Table. Sir JAMES SHAW presented a Petition, signed by many respectable inhabitants of chi Ward of Cheap, against the Property Tax. It was read, and ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. C. DUNDAS presented a Petition from ea. pin inhabitants of York against the Property Tax, which was read, and ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. COKE presented two Petitions from the county of Norfolk, the one from the inhabitants of the parish of Brandop, and the other from those of the parish of Swaffham, against the Property Ta*r They were both read, and ordered to lie on the Table. Sir F. BURDETT presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of Monmouth, not only against the Pro. petty Tax, but also against Pensions and Sinecure laces; also complaining of the expensive Monts. linens which had been voted. _The Honourable &moat% stated, that as he concurred in all the send. inents stated in the Petition, be felt great pleasure is presenting it, and hoped that Ministers would be persuaded not to consummate the ruin of the country by supporting expensive establishments. The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. P. MOORE presented a Petition from certain inhabitant' of Coventry, praying for relief from the excessive burden of taxation, especially from the Property Tax. The Honourable Gentleman then expatiated en the distresses of the country. Me thought the Vote of the Supplies should precede that far the Peace Establishment ; and hoped the House would set its face against the course of conduct adopt ed by Ministers. He (Mr. M.) had presented pc& Lions from Coventry before, but they were not se► garded—Great as this petition stated the distress t the poor to be, it stated not a tenth part of their suf ferings—it revised much interest to be admitted into the poor-house. He hoped the petitions before the I-louse would prove a useful and solemn lesson to Misisters bqw they acted. Mr. BUTTERWORTH supported the Petition.' He believed., the public objccuor.s to the tax would not be so decisive, it it were really .a tax on property. and not on precarious incomes. The trade of Co. gentry was greatly depressed. Some houses, that used to pay £4OO or £5OO a week to workmen, now paid only se4.o or £5O. They felt severely the weight of taxation, and the partiality of Commissioners a' many cases. There were many instances of peoples' . affairs being embarrassed by exposures. There wasl great injury to public morals by the temptation: offered to suppress the real state of affairs, while there was also a disposition to act with a severity bordering on oppression, bj which people were. frequently com pelled to pay more than they ou„oht according to law. The great influx of foreign goods depressed the trade, of Coventry at present, and ought to be considered' by Government. kie.believed Spitalfields was never more distressed than at present. He had been so in formed by old inhabitants. Some individuals paid re than they ought to this tax, to keep up appear . ces. A tax on property should not be the means of oppression. The people were willing to pay every fair kind of taxation. He was hippy to see in this ,Petition no objectionable Matter, no party views— it, ;spoke the genuine language of the place. Though to disband our army might be irnpulitic..yet we were .• t now in the dangers in which we had been, and is tax ought to be resorted to only in urgent neces sity. He therefore supported the Petition. Mr. LYTTLETON, adverting to the silence of the Chancellor of the Ezchentier, called it, in the paw* case, offensive. He alluded to the passage in the Prince Regent's Speech at the opening of this Session; Which stated that the resources of the coun 'try were unimpaired, said, that he could only ace count for this expression by supposing that Ministers ' were ignorant of the real state of the country ; but the ntimbet of the Petitioni that had now been pre sented left no such excuse for them now. He thought it incumbent on the House to compel Ministers to act on principles of economy and retrenchment. The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the Table. Sir THOMAS ACLAND presented a Petition from certain Landholders, Farmers and others, in the South and West Divisions of the Hundred of Black Torrington, in the County of Devon, com plaining of the general distress endured by the agri• cultural interest, in consequence of the Malt Tax, some of the Assessed Taxes, and the Property Tax, and praying for relief. On the Petition being read, Mr. LOCKHART said, that it would be in vain to expect that any relief would be afforded to the agricultural interest, if the Property Tax was to be reelacted in the way in which it had been laid on hitherto. He thought that the holders of Exchequer Bills, and those who had funded property, were the proper objects for this tax—at least, that on them the chief burden of it should lie. Considering the circionstances in which the country was placed, it appeared to him absurd to petition the House that there should be no Property Tax. The only way to make the Tax effectual would be to make it one on real property. Mr. BARING said, that when the Tax came before the House he would consider it in the shape in which it would be brought in, without at all mak ing any question as to whether it might not be brought forward in some more unobjectionable shape. The country would be defeated in its object unless the Tax were discussed in the shape in which Mini. stets brought it forward. As to the nature of the prayer of the Petitions that came before the House, nothing was more likely than that each class of men should pray that those Taxes should be removed which pressed most hardly upon them. But on the whole he could consider the continuance of the odious Tax on Income, in no other light than as a suspen sion of the blessings of the Constitution. Mr. THOMPSON said that this fact was unde• niable=that farmers paid this Tax for an Income, when they had no Income. The principle on which the Tax was at present imposed was, that the profits of the farmer were equal to three-fourths of the amount of his rent. Nothing could be more false than this principle—nothing more unjust; and he would be astonished if the country Gentlemen were to support it. He hoped the Moister would find other means to support the Peace Establishment. Mr. SHAW mixed much with commercial per sons, and had many opportunities of hearing their sentiments. Although he did not bring their signa tures to the House, yet he was enabled to state how much they considered themselves to have suffered by the Property Tax, and bow anxious they were that it should not be re-enacted. Vat was unjust in its basis, could not be just in its superstructure. It was not just that persons depending for their support on a temporary income, the result of their bodily or mental exertions should contribute in an equal ratio to the wants of the State, as men possessed of the fee simple of an estate, who bad nothing to do but to spend the produce of that estate, conscious that it would be transmitted to their children. He agreed with an Honourable Gentleman who bad spoken from the other side of the House, that if we must have a Property Tax, it should really be one on pro. petty, and not on the hard.earned incomes of men who bad a wife and children looking up to them for support. Never could he consent that such a man should pay equally as persons of legal property, by which he meant capital vested either in the funds or in land. He then reverted to a statement made some time ince by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, ' that if it were possible for him to bring a large sum at once into the money market, the country would ' be relieved; but that, instead of the money which he could not supply, he thought he should go as far to wards relieving the distresses of the country if he did not take a loan out of its pockets : that public credit would be improved, that money would spread in various radii, and assistance afforded by the country Banks. He called upon that Right Hon. Gentleman to pause before be adopted such a measure. Who: . . ~Y ~. ~. •~~ ~-_ ' •- - PRICE S 'thee he to six millions by Loan, or by a Tax on Property, the same result would be produced a s to money, but not the same effect on individirals.— A loan would only draw off the surethis of the opu. lent, whilst the tax would fall upon the digressed, who must, perhaps, be compelled to borrow the sirens necessary for its payment. He did not conceive that the Country Banks were, at this moment, either in. disposed or unable to render assistance. What pre. vented them from doing it was, that they could only lend on what they considered good security, and as the price of wheat had fallen lower than it ever was, such security could no longer be given, and there:ore the, circulation of paper money was reduced. After so long it war, and so glorious a termination to it, there was another strong motive, a moral principle of gratitude, which ought to operate in favour of the people. They had Name the expenses of that war to their utmost strength, and even beyond it, because they exp cted the fulfilment of the promises made to them, and which had encouraged them to bear the heavy privations and burthens with which they were incumbeted. What must be their feelings when they should find, that, in defiance of every promise and every pledge, thtProperty Tax was to be continued t The burthen, it would be said, was reduced onehalf, but that was a small relief. It was not with regard to money alone that the tax was obnoxious, but to the manner in which it was levied. it did away the trial by Jury, ever since. the inetitutioe of which the coun try had grown op in prosperity and happiness. Even were it only one, instead of ten per cent, though it would be less onerous with respect to money, it would be more onerous than the country should bear, by the innovation that it would introduce into the Constitu. lion—(!sear, hear, front the Oplutrition.)—When our neighbour's house was on fire, we had a right to pull ,it down, in order to save our own ; but when the fire was over the right also ceased. It was the same with the Property Tax, borne through eecessity during the war, but which could not be justly revived when the contest was closed —(hear, hear.) He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would feel the voice of the House, and of the count' y, and withdraw a measure, which, if pressed and carried, would prove one of the most detrimental to which the nation bad been subjected.. (Hear, hear !) Mr. BARCLAY expatiated on the distresses of the country, and the evil consequences of tile t'ro. petty Tax. What be knew of farmers now, WAS, ib+. instead of taking pride, as in former times, of payt ing their rents yearly, they delayed their payments, even when they, had. the means, as long - as possible, lest they should be considered richer than their neigh. bouts, and liable to increased Property Tax charges. He thought that the measure mentioned by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, instead of yielding relief, wools! produce a contrary effect. If the Property Tax were passed, Ministers should be bound to keep down every item of expeaditure. public buti should rise in this city, no , additional grants sliculd be made to the Royal Family, but economy must pervade every rank. He deprecated the idea, that whoever supported the Army Estita.ates should be bound to support the Property Tax.. He thought it his duty to vote for the Army Estimates, because he r did not conceive our security complete. But he should not vote for them as a permanent Peace Establish ment, but as an Army of Observation. After all the vicissitudes of fortune which we had lately witnessed. who could trust to the security of the present peace t Mr. BROUGHAM called upon Gentlemen, who might differ in some particulars, but who all agreed. in opposing the Property Tax, not to suffer them. selves to be led away from the object, by allowing the Chancellor of the Exchequer to bring in his Bill; with the intention of reserving their objections to its various parts, when it should be brought in. It was natural that persons should object more particularly to Schedule A or Schedule D, confining themselves in their petitions, chiefly to the parts that pressed hardest upon them ; but if Honourable Members followed that example—if they divided their forces, and allowed the Tax to go on at all, the Chancellor of the Exchequer would take them in detail, and carry through his edition of the Tax—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Let not the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken against that impost from the oppo. site side, think that it would be possible to improve the Bill, it he allowed it to go into a Cummittee, because he would then find the Honourable Gentle man under the gallery (Mr. Butterworth) and others who mete divided in their opposition to various points, whilst the Chancellor of the Exchequer being , for it on all grounds, and being undivided and un split, would carry his own measure as he pleased. (Hear, hear.) Although he felt convinced that .hat Right Honourable Gentleman would be ultimately compelled to abandon that odious Tax, yet he called upon the House and the country not to relax their exertions. Amongst various means used to defeat the opposition to this impost, were insinuatio ns , and I even assurances, that it would be abandoned, end that it was thertfore unnecessary to petition against it. But if the country suffered itself to be deceived, and be trusted it would not, if it did not raise its voice and send-forth its petitions, the Tax would not be abandoned—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was remark able to see Gentlemen rise incessantly and give their opinions against that inquisition, whilst not one Was found to get up and say that he approved of it ! not, even the Honourable Baronet eho had presented to- venal petitions from Devonshire, and, who was sus. spected to think favourably of the Tax. He did not give a single reasimor the shade of a reason, for ap. proving of it. The only way the silence of the Ho. namable Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House could be accounted for was, that they should not be well pleased that it should be known in the House, and still more particularly out of it. that they were in favour of such an oppressive inquisition. He trusted that this night -would not pas. is iteGee some of them giving his opiaion on the subject, that the House should not be left is the extraordinary pro. dicament of not hearing one voiee.raised (avow et d; r.