Star. — London, England, 1819-12-24 00:00:00

.;; , si t 1, ' ir , , 1 1 . , - . ; . 4= I lli 'l ~... ly ~ >' r f_. . p l , I :, , . 1 . L 1 i 1 • ; I 1 1 , I L, : ( , ~~~ I 1, I •• ~. 1 11 • taken place 4n the. market, grounded upon reports connected with the transactions to which the Reso lutions he held in his hand related. The Honourable Member here detailed some of the particulars of the Treaty, already before the Public ; and said, that the object of his motion was twofold—ramely, to ascertain whether part' of the sixty-five millions of francs, which the French Government bad engaged, by the sixth Article of the Treaty, to pay to the Com missioners of the Allied Powers by nine monthly in stalments, commencing with January, 1819, and of which Great Britain was to receive one-fourth, had been paid? and if so, whether it were rendered avail able to the expenses of the current year? but if it were not so available, Le wished to know to what it had been applied ? The Honourable Member then moved, " That there be laid on the table of the House an account of the amount of all the securities in the-French Funds placed by France at the dis posal of the British Government, shewing how placed, the persons to whom sold, the rates for each realised in this country, and to what purposes applied. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob hected to the motion. A copy of it had been put in is hand previously, and the manner in which it was shaped did not allow it to answer its object. As to the stock transferred from the French Funds to this country, it stood in the name of the Commissioners, and no Stock whatever had been sold by this Govern ment. As to the payments which had been made by France in instalments, they had been applied to make good the enagagement relative to the fortifications an the Netherlands: and if those sums had not been available for that purpose, it would have been neces sary to apply to Parliament for a vote in Committee of Supply. He concluded by requesting the Hon. Gentleman to withdraw his motion. Mr. HUME said, that the statement of the Right Honourable Gentleman furnished a strong argument to prove that the House ought to require the ac count. He (Mr. Hume) must go upon the presump tion that the nine monthly instalments of the 165 millions, commencing in January, 1819, had been paid; and if so, the transaction being closed, the House should inquire into it, and the accounts ought to be submitted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re peated his objections to the erroneous manner in which the motion was drawn up. He said, if the motion were framed so as to require an account of the pay ments made, and the application of them, he should not object to h. The Honourable Gentleman said, that although all the payments hitherto made agree able to the Treaty had been applied to the fortifica tions in the Netherlands, yet he hoped a surplus of payment would yet remain for those purposes. The motion was withdrawn. BLASPHEMOUS LIBEL BILL. i, ` ~• t r Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee on the Blasphemous Libel Mr. BERNAL said, he felt it his duty to protest against the principle and clatkses of the Bill. He considered it one of the most obnoxious and danger ous measures that had ever been proposed in that House, where the greatest efforts were made to hurry it into a law. Though he objected to the Bill alto gether, yet the clause or banishment was so peculiarly objectionable, that he could not avoid making a few observations on it. For the space of-200 years ba• nishment was not known as part of the common law, and it had been taken notice of by Parliament only in one solitary instance. Ile had, indeed, heard that old punishment, called abjuration of the realm, spoken of as being the same as what was meant by the word banishment in the Bill. He thought it necessary, therefore, to state to the House what that abjuration ivas—when a felon, escaping from justice betook himself to sanctuary, if in 40 days he appeared be fore the Coroner, or other proper authority, and con fessed the offence, he was allowed to abjure the realm —and it was to be noticed, that such abjuration had, as its inevitable consequences, an attainder of blood and forfeiture of goods and Chattels. But that doc trine was found to be so productive of various mis chief, and became at last so onerous to the country, that it was abolished at length by the 21st James the First. There was, indeed, another Act, the 39th of Elizabeth, which recognized the punishment of exile, but that was enacted when an abatement of the great spirit of enterprize, which had employed so many adventurous persons, threw them upon society, and thereby cleated a number of felons exceedingly dan gerous front their activity and desperation. The law which was passed in consequence, applied only to felonious characters, and it enacted that persons of that class, who had been committed to a Houye of Correction, and found incorrigible, should be banishtd at the public expense, or sent to work in the gallies, and thence he believed, was the origin of transporta tion. A similar Act was passed in the reign of Charles the Second, which also applied only to felo nious persons, of whom a' great number then infested the Counties of Cumberland and Westmoreland.— But the Act on which the supporters of the Bill laid great stress, was that of the 36th of the King, which had been passed in the year 1795. But although that Act was passed at a very awful period, and intended for defeating SKr designs of high state de linquentl;. "Ar i z was to be recollected, that it was limited in duration to three years, and the sentence of banishment not discretionary, but confined to seven years. The Hon. Member then said, that the con• sequences of banishment formed a most important, consideration. The law recognized two kinds of death, the one civil, the other natural. Whenever the penalty of banishment had been at any former time inflicted, the consequence was civil death.-1 The Law Officers of the Crown were therefore plung ing us in great difficUlties, and he begged to know if they were prepared to say, whether a man banished under the law, was thereby dissolved from his Ale- . giance, as well as put out of the reciprocal duty of the probation of his Sovereign? and whether his children were to be recognized as natives of the Bri tish soil ? Another important consideration was, at whose expense the sentence of banishment was to be executed. It might be easy for a man in flourishing 'rcumstances, to banish himself, but that could not the power of a poor man, or one who was re to poverty by then legal proceedings taken him—and supposing the country in a belli state, on what shore was he to set his fOtit, or was the unprotpcted exile to . find a resting '—(Hear, hear).—He then observed upon the natural aversion which a British Jury bad to convict upon statutes of overstrain ed • severity. In 'such a case, the victim was often 'rescued from the cruel op pression of the law by a Sort of pious fraud, and thus the inhuman hardship of the h&w defeated its own intention—besides, a man convicted for seditious libel was very differently circumitanced, in a moral poiat.of view, from other criminals, and should be so regarded by the law. What was looked on as a sedi tious libel one day, was laughed at as an amusing squib another. He concluded by requesting the Crown Lawyers 'to remove the difficulties in which the consideration of the Bill was 'lnvolved. Mr. DENMAN objected to the Bill ; after some prefatory observations as to the great powers with which the Law Officers of the Crown were already invested against the Press, and the cautious and mo- ' derate manner in which they found it right to exer cise them, he proceeded to say, that if any one had told him, a few years since, that his Honourable and Learned Friends, the Attorney and Solicitor-General, were to be made the instruments for introducing such a Bill into the House of Commons, he vowed to GOD that he would be inclined to insult the man who had told him so, and would treat his assertion as a false and groundless accusation. . He then ob served, that the acquittal of Hone formed no argu ment to support the necessity of suds an enactment; and complimented his Hon. and Learned Friend beside him (Sir James Mackintosh) on the brilliant and convincing. speech which he had made on the measure then before the House on the preceding night. As to himself, he said, that if he could not excite a feeling for the endangered liberties 'of his country, he would at least have the satisfaction of recording his own. He did not wish to indulge in any common-place declamation respecting the Press, though he was not inclined to undervalue that decla mation, as it was the tribute of the common convic tion of Englishmen to a principle, which was, as it were a part of their country. It was the proverbial wisdom of society, the vulgar acknowledged its power, and the educated revered it ; but it appeared that Ministers had been enlightened by a period of alarm, and had been instructed by it to treat that great principle differently from the manner in which it had been treated for some preceding ages. From reign to reign concessions had been made, but now the worst coercive restriction's were to render them nugatory, and the presumption of offence was to be acted upon against all in the service of the Press in this great literary country. The eloquence which had been often brought to bear upon this subject, had not originated with idle and frothy declaimers, but had come from the most venerated sages of the law, and the most enlightened philosophers. But now it was said that times were altered, and a man who was at all connected Kith the Press, was ren-, dered liable to banishment for a technical crime.— The present law went to establi.sh a rew jurisdiction; and to alter the character of the Judges of th'e land, and he was sure That if these learned and upright Judges cculd refuse obedience to an Act of Parlia ment, they would reject the invidious discretion now about to be conferred upon them with indignation. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman then stated' some instances of hardship which had taken place under the law of libel on a former occasion, when the late Mr. Johnson, (of St. P au l' s Church-yard), was imprisoned six months for publishing Wake field's Answer to the Work of the late Bishop of Landaff; and also Mr. Cuthel, (of. Holborn), who had published the same book among the clissical works of Mr. Wakefield—( Hear, hear, hear).-- Under the present Bill, these persons would be liable to be banished for life. Such an arbitrary punish ment ought not to be given to any Court, nor ought it to be tolerated. He was sure such a power would have the worst effect upon the bookselling trade of England. It would-be found cheaper to import cargoes of libels, or what might be construed into libels, than to manufacture them here. There was at present a sarcastic Poem circulating in London, which no bookseller here would print, and which came from the Paris Press, though understood to be by a Noble. English Author; but he supposed the Ministers would have, in the Continental Statesmen, a sort of fellow-constables to look after the Press, and a holy brotherhood in bonds of amity, suppressing every thing that could tend to the improvement of the human mind. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman then animadverted strongly on the right of searching private houses for libels, and argued, that it; on information given of a concealed libel, a man's house was to be searched and his papers ran sacked, a most cruel act of oppression would be committed ; and if, on the other hand, the person in formed against were allowed to sliew cause, the libel could be in the mean time removed, and the end of the clause defeated ; so that it was either useless, or most unjust and reprehensible. It appeared to him, that when the 36th of the King-was said to be adopt ed as a precedent, that the words " maliciously and advisedly," which were inserted in that Act, should also be adopted in the pre:enc. The Bill now before the House was objectiorable in another point of view—namely, because it would have an ex postfacto operation. The operation of the Bill embraced any person who should be convicted, and this might re fer to a crime which had been committed a full year ago, as, well as to one which might he committed alter the passing of the Bill. He must say, that he felt this case very strongly, and he hoped he should be excused for taking up so much of the time of the House upon it. He never could consent to adopt any terms, in the argument upon it, which could tend to lower the tone of that House with regard to the Liberty of the Press. The Press he looked upon as the best and happiest safeguard of the Constitution. It would be found its strongest defence in every dan ger—" Secanadas res'orwat, us adverse* rebate per/y -earn et sob:times itrarbet." He felt the more deter mined in these principles, because if the tone of the House and the Public were lowered, the effect would be, instead of having the shackles which were threat ened, as light as possible, and as temporary as the occasion that required them, it would tend only to make them perpetual—(Nee r ). Mr. It. MARTIN thought it was a *atter of no consideration whether the punishment of banishment was enacted before or not; the only cooaideration to be looked to was, whether such a punishment was adequate or not to put an end to t i e as cri ibe me :th l e t u wai ght their duty to fix upon it such a it deserved. After all those laws should, be passed, the Liberty of the Press would, he contended, re . • ai passed. if the . question were debated on it s own main as perfectly *intact, as they bad never been ' merits, without any regard to party feelings, there was not a man in the House who would not approve of this measure. Taking the question upon its own grounds, could any one doubt that the most atro cious injuries might not be done to persons and pto perty, by the circulation of libellous hand - bi lls ? He remembered a banker that was not long since in very prosperous circumstances in Ireland', and that a number of malicious and false hand-bills having been circulated, stating that a run was made upon his bankz—an actual rue was made in consequence, and. the man was destroyed. He would put the case of an Honouiable Alderman in London, who was famed for making excellent patties—(A laugh). Suppose hand-bills were sent out, stating that the worthy Al derman had his patties made up of the flesh of little children I (A laugh). Gentlemen might laugh r -but it Was well known that such flesh was - whiter than anfboiled chicken!—(Driud laughter) . But suppose such a rumour was spread abroad, as might be easily done by means of hand-bills, what would be the con sequence to the Alderman ? 'Why, the devil a patty he'd sell at all !—(Roars of laughter). In fact, there was no man who might not be destroyed by such noxious publications, and the only way to put an end to them was to pass the present Bill. Mr. BANKES thought that the abuses existing were so alarming, that it was necessary to adopt mea sures strong enough to suppress them. The Honour able Member wept into the same line of argument as.he had used upon a previous night, to chew that there were restraints upon the Press, immedi ately after the 'Revolution, than those which were now proposed. He believed it could not be denied that disaffection prevailed in the Country to a consi derable extent ; but he had as little doubt, that the majority of the People were uncorrupted by this dis contented spirit, and that they would feel obliged to Parliament for passing these efficient measures. The Honourable Member then went into an explanation of a former speech, which was frequently alluded to ' in the debate last night. He denied that he hated the diffusion of education amcng the People, and he had hoped that his general character would have se cured him from such insinuations. He had merely expressed his doubts upon the prudence of the ac tivity shewn bf certain Members of the House in spreading education so extensively, with Out, at the same time, taking equally active measures to pre vent the inconvenience which might arise from it. If he was asked whether education was good ?—he was ready to admit that no doubt couli be enter tained about it. But he did sincerely believe, that it was not of advantage to propagate education to the extent to which it was pushed by Members of that House—(Hear, ' hear, hear). For the humanity and benevolence of those Members he had the highest respect, but he hoped he should not be looked upon as a marked person, because he had expressed opi nions which he held most conscientiously—(Hear). Mr. J. P. GRANT denied that it was asserted on his side of de House that the Honourable Gentle- man who had just sat down had delivered any opi nion against the diffusion of religion and education in the country. For his part, he merely understood the Honourable Gentleman as expressing some 'doubts as to the moral consequence of so great an extension of education as now prevailed. But what ever opinion he, or any other Member, entertained upon the subject of education, it was now too late to endeavour to stop it. As to the question before, the House, he thought it singular that they should be now called upon to go into a Committee upon a Bill for which no case of necessity had yet been made out. It was also very extraordinary that nei ther the Attorney nor Solicitor-General had stated all the legal consequences of the punishment of ba nishment for lift—a punishment which was now enacted for the first time in this country. Some sup posed that it amounted to civil death ; and for his part he should, ike to know, whether it was under stood that this punishment should or should not be assimilated to the old abjuration of the country? He 'did not hope that any thing he should say would have the slightest effect upon the vote of the House, but this he should say, that they were at present in a state very unfit for permanent legislation--(Hear, hear).—He was quite ready to agree to this, and to the other measures, irovided they were of a tempo rary nature. And he should go thus far, .not from any alarm which he himself felt, but from deference o to those feeling s of a l arm which were entertained b her.y a s In s i n S g co u t l l a a i n l y d grea parti r c . ula i r n ly, rd th i e nb al u a rg, alarm prev in t g w sfor in stance, so great was the alarm, that the Lord Presi dent of the Court of Session thought it necessary to take upon himself the military command of the Castle; and it was a fact, that that learned person, whose character was entirely civil, marched a guard to the Castle every morning, and marched it hack again in the evening —(Hear, hear) o —He and his friends would not object to any measures for securing the peace of the country, provided they were not intended to be permanent. Lord BINNING replied to several of the points nrged by the last speaker. He contended that there was a real ground for alarm in Scotland, where every thing lately indicited an insurrection on the part of the disaffected, which made it necessary to withdraw' , the troops from Edinburgh, and obliged the most re spectable inhabitants of that city and Glasgow, to take up arms in def ence o f t h e i r f am ili es and h. property. There was no idle panic in Scotland, but a real ground for alarm, occasioned by the blasphe nious and seditious Press, which it was the object the present Bill to put down. Mr. BIRCH began by noticing 11:01DO comments contained in a Nottingham Paper attached to the Go .vernment, upon his conduct in Parliament; but he was called to order by the SpeaUr. He then etaiedi that the Paper in question had charged bid Birch} with wilfully withholding inforniatioi the House, relative to training and arming m • that part of the country. Since then, the Editor of that Paper had contradicted the statement neo4 q and therefore he should leave the House to drawl , own inference on the subject.—The House tis jelved itself into a Committee on the - Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH 5. 7 Amendments to propose elated it would be ittiopt. He should. “ Composing and'y these words---.“ " l ardly knew under what description of , .class those that were called seditious libel s , not think they were defined in the Bill then the House. • The language in the Bill ' was described, was so vague, confused, , factory, that he did not know whether it nition of a seditious libel, or an enur offences coming under that denomination., definition, it was an absurdity, consisting o f purporting to be distinct in their meaning signifying the same thing; just as if describe a triangle, and then say, ; T . a; comprehended by three straight lines. if guage in the Bill was an enumeration of consisted of a profusion of unnecessary which he could find nothing clear or Slti' The next Amendment, then, which he s was this, to leave out the words definin;, ,ous libel to be a publication tending to Government into hatred or contempt, or the constitution of either House of and to add these words—" or any libel , excite the subjects of this realm to any act done, would by law amount to felony; The object of his Amendment was, to operation of the Bill to such blasphemo t tious libels as should tend to excite people he had just described ; or should hold fir,_ trines that the King and the Parliament had , power to make laws for the country. He sherd state the grounds for proposing these It had been •admitted, by all parties in that that the respectable part ofahe Press ought parated from that part which was wicked atxl graceful—from that abominable part o f which no man execrated more than himself. lowed, therefore, that the House should principle—that the measures intended to died punish the one, should not oppress or s' other. His object, then, w* to put to the - test declarations that had been made in that lative to the distinction that ought to be Ilekween the execrable part of the Press, wirich was allowed, on all hands, to be In considering the necessity of the present it was proper clearly to understand what complained of really was. The evil did merely in political libels, for there was no which there was less of such species of there was no period when the general free from libels of that description, or so , so meritorious. But, on the other hand, a species of publications which ought - under the description of a public Press, tailed the most atrocious excitements pillage, and rebellion !—(Cries of Hear On one side, there was a Press condi' utmost propriety, decorum, and with to the Laws and Constitution of the the other side, there was a clandestir ing forth publications of the most ' and instigating men to commit the acts—instigating men to the commissiol murder, and treason. His object then fine the new law to the new mischief ' up in the country, to this new class of to have the old law just as it stood belt be applicable, as it formerly was, to 'from inadvertence, or the fervour of The offence comprehended under the tious Libel" was most undefined and because many words which at one perfectly innocent, were at another into libels, and men were often punished ing a statement which was not °ill, meritorious. Nothing could be ay unskilfulness in legislation, than this ratter of a libel, which ought to be so defined, that a Jury possessing comr common honesty should know how minds upon it. The framers of the far from attending to any thing like libel, threw their enumeration of offences 'cumbrous parenthesis. They excluded - the particular enumeration Of those- r were most detestable, and deserving nishment, and had not said a word about lications that contained excitements assasfination. Indeed, it was impossil a clause more faulty than that which in the Bill. It contained what ought , and it omitted what it ought to contain. however, seem to him possible to distinf the two different classes of libels to hided ; and if that were done, the efficac' would be better promoted, men whose grant would be duly punished, and would still remain with regard to polit. ordinary libels of slight criminality were confounded with such atrocious libels which he alluded, the effect would be horror which men must naturally crimes recommended by the latter species and would - confound men's judgments a ' and wrong. It would degrade respectal by placing them in the same liabili; flan whose writings should recomt atrocious crimes, and it lowered the Press altogether. Was there no distinction between the innocent tradesman in publication was sold, and the wretch abominable writings, with a view of causing atrocious crimes to be committed ? - it to the Committee, whether this stood, was not a re-enactment of the sion in which the law of libel had al , volved ? This Bill went deliberately ' innocent with the guilty—or rather confusion which already existed. It , a degree of unjust severity, that a woman miles off, and receiving an annuity - Journal, was liable No be prosecuted published ia in that Journal, of which . completely ignorant. A new law, define libels, and to fix the crime and r` to those upon whom they ought justly loudly called for by every principle no law ever passed which would be , with more cordiality than such a But the . Bill, se far . hens defining the 'merit, to the innocent and the F eiltP -t its object; for while the sevetztyrra not be possible to find Juriea to cos' great deal weald be wined if th i be broaght to bear on criminals only would be gained• by that precision h.' .• 1 t ri, 7'!l• • wnuse ex executed, t : I' 11 circumst: , be in the Is duced u against 1 . . 1 P • gerent st - e K where w. place 7 .1 1 ' 1 i . a Cominittee on the Bell. Bat the present lACILINTOSH said, lie had _soak extended its sear propose •to this Bill, which he con- and.would defeat i be most material for the HOW* tO- so groat, it would ad PTPoss. that before the. words i onct t whereas a rpunniug," there *4l be ittoercea severity should be maliciamly sad advisedly." lir and still more wo ion of o i T e , ; y st Bill then nob Bill hys e 'used, and the !they it wa s numerati on P ( . ) 'nes' i nat ion. Bi t nisisting of ty son u Itzc e s am iehi °i3: i -fmsi n eerna g lens asSi satisfy rabePnelf.: t t o gYliluris off. inW ld l the mil d cot !min, or t o het) vc e of P ar ', y libel tend:, 111 lon yornu ~ 0 c. any act %chi s, to colifint irti ihemous and people to the en told forth th e , .rd tment had not S y. He should , se Araendtn es in that Ho m ess ought to be ,iri s wicked and part ,of the 1 20 n himself. It sys should adopt et ided to check g s or degrade out to the test in that House, • it to be ob . e le rle v t oi Press, did e , rn n what re sent Press es and t t bc l p r l d a '' c e s . s was no period ies of libel di or so correct r hand, there aght not tor ?ress, nents to nt.: .e Wear, hear, .. 1 Inducted with vith a duet he Country.. , t , stine Press, - ;t horrible nat., most aboti, tission of rob• n: then was, to c ac of that had gr of offences; . , before, so ts . bl to erro r s r of partisiii the term " and undefinabl. • e time might er time constru. ished for publi nly.innucent, rgriater proof its undefined c , so described mmon seine , to make up t. • te present Pill, a a defiiiition • offences into tiled from the ; • re- offences uhi. its t c au s h s b 1 : :: t o h ut thoseloeeseptavoiule P u l ar tn ege d s e a t d • ti : . . ' !isffisthtctonoincanguitcwlythn3iath.cohbetb;thhtewei 11.1 rl a lose guilt Was • and the old is p o bewbf l eeeere i l t s i l c to al libels. aansgoaabv. y .:thoseantsteto species of li meats as to rig. , spectable wri • ility with the cnmend the en‘ :he dignity of '• inction to be m in whose shop dr who sent fo (causing the ? He would is Bill, as it rA he general coin - always been ly to *confound t T OD confirm It existed to woman living -1 y out of a AI , " ed for sometb s ch she must ha law, therefore, rd the punish itly to attach, e of justice; an carried into e; a law as this. lefiaina the low ti