Star. — London, England, 1819-11-24 00:00:00

m isted, the best way to reduce it would be to 1 pretext. To those Gait/awn who came • lull districts, it might be rnatetial to state the which many distant districts Were placed. be informed of the numerous Meetings :Ikea place—the revolutionary flags, and r y array, that have characterized several lie would refer them, for instance, to some is r asseal at the Middlesex Meeting a short With respect to the arrangement for , n to the military. force, he would refer to those who would officially explain it. he should say, he perfectly eon necessity alleged for such addition.- 7.t , :c beets gratifying to those who declared inking exciseable articles, that there was- a in the Revenue of last quarter. lint it ring to find that ad improvement was now ice. Our relations with Foreign Powers. appearance of permanent harmony. The a Nations, too long deluded by speculative Nish to find an opportunity of repose, and isposed rather to bear those ills they have others that they know not of." The at revile the House of Commons would be iwered by the acts—the attentions to. the :rest and comforts, cf the House of Com- If. The progress of infidelity and bias ts.truly alarming. The. scoffers at our Li de.ir as the Bible itself, were •prosecuted, i nunisliment._ We were all, of every Sc- r sitasion, equally interested in the mainte he Christian Religion; for in what were we the beasts, Wit was not in our knowledge He begged pardon for trorpassing on theit implored the House, Whig and Tory, to it was that had been committed to to renumber, that they were called oa to !it was dearest to them, and that they were )ro aris e focis—(lfear, hear, hear). dress was then read from the Chair, when EltNk;l: began by stating why he did not h the two Honourable Members who pre- I, that because information had been pro. in,a particular topic, and because it might r to prejudge that topic, the Address in an- Id be agreed to by the Houses He should himself justified, perhaps, in offering any pon the subject, which was to be elucidated by official papers ; but he could not see tlystaining from giving such an opinion, he prevented from offering a few words upon A subjects-of the Address. In the present he country, it became his imperative and uty to call the attention of the House to an ent, which he intended to propose for their To those who had any experience of 1)..r -he need not say how inconvenient—how ,ing it was to move an Amendment of this There was a e rejudise against such Amend that many (gentlemen were found to object who yet would have concurred in the mat they contained. But he thought there was ment to be lost for every man to come for m express his opinion upon the present con he country, in older that the Address should nere echo of the Speech, but a genuine pic se distresses of the country. He begged to le House, that no man more sensibly felt did the distresses of the Nation, or had a t'ohorrence of the nicked and blasphemous n the Religion and Constitution of the Coon , would not now enlarge upon this disagree ;cc, but content himself with saying, that, professed to abhor the scandalous principles .LJ been openly avowed in the country, he consolation in the circumstance that the law eto put them down. When he viewed the n of this country, and compared it with that nations, he felt himself perfectly justified in g that there did not exist a more moral on the earth than the People of England.— had been only within the last twelve months s passed that House for multiplying Churches: these Acts amply a surplus piety in the land ? ens the case, and that even yet there was not dent vent for the ordinary piety of the Pee re we to be told that they were in great daw n the prevalence of blasphemy and irreligion? :ty became so terrific, and that the laws were icient to put it down, for his part he should ry willing to vote For the building of more es. But that the laws were sufficient he saw Drs to doubt, particularly when he referred tonfirmation of this opinion b'y the verdict of ray. He now came to the next subject upon he meant to observe, namely, the alleged :e of disloyalty and disaffection in the Manu ig Districts. Now, he should say, that if the crc not sufficient to resist any spirit of insure let there be additional laws ; but until he necessity clearly established, he should never' to any addition to our laws. He wished to tangible, sufficient grounds for any new tentc, it such were intended ; but at present be opinion that the laws, as they stood, required t red and wholesome administration. Nothing Laing but firmness in the dispensation of the and unless the People were satisfied that what Ine was necessary, he could not see how Mini told increa,e their confidence by any new law. nth was, that this country was growing worse arse every year in point of taxation. Else re• of the country were not as they had been.— d been often told of the great strength of our :es. He had as much confidence as any man C resources, but there was a bound to them. years ago, he saw millions and millions added of the taxes on the country, he ventured to .t the expediency—the policy of a more econo system. He would now ask those to whom , aggestions had been made, if it would not be that they bad been adopted. The real root of ae grievances wand us was the pressure of )n—Olear, hear).--1141 country could not sup he amount of those taxes. The people were xed. There was not a man amongst them able tow the amount of the contribution levied *on 'rent the profits of his calling. Here was the r all our distresses and complaint-% if he used language he begged pardon, but he could (oid expressing the truth. The Speech from !tone held out what he would tall, if it did ocecd from the !loyal lips, a miserable hope : coar.try 1 It talked of the fluctuations of the I'm in an indifferent thing; and atter having stated an imptdovement in thelr amount, talked of the 'flattering prospett of its continuance, merely becauso by some trick or another an increase in the lte?enue had been effected.. By the bye, it was not a litt4'e curious to observe how well the state of Revenue sympa *allied with the period of the meeting of Parliament: In the Minister's speech, put lift() the mouth of the Prince Regent nine months ago, it was said that the trade, the commerce, the manufactures of, the coup-- try :were in a natsst flourishing condition.. They could not have thought so. Now, however, they admitted the existence of fluctuations, and these proved how much worse things were growing. Ile knew he was in the hearing of several merchants, when he said that trade was never in a suite of greater stagnation. It might be said, indeed, that the condition of fo reign countries was the cause of this. He did not. l doubt but this cause had its influence. The prospect as it regarded the poor labourer; was not less appal ling. With the apparent refuge of the Poor Laws, he lost the honest stimulus to industry which charac terised Englishmen, whilst at the same time the low price of labour was not sufficient• tb remunerate him who had not felt their influence, and had retained Ms industrious habits. Let all these considerations be combined, and who so visionary as to talk of trea `bon and traitorous designs? Discontent must exist under the present disposition of things; but discon tent was not disaffection. However, though he fondly hoped there did exist no disaffection, yet he enter tained serious alarm on reflecting upon the great and manifold causes of discontent which at the pre sent moment existed. He might be charged with being an alarmist i true, he was an alarmist, but his fears arose from different sources from those who were proverbially so. Where was the man, who, looking with the eye of calm reflection upon the, causes which operate to produce the present tone of the public mind, that can be indifferent to them? h.:very man was perhaps more an alarmist upon cer tain subjects which he understood best; but upon a general view of the subject, any rational man must pronounce an alarm neither groundless nor visionarv. He would proceed to hazard an opinion upon the probable causes of that discontent, and in so doing, felt that he was exposed to misconstruction and clamour. HoweVer, his duty urged him, and he would avow, that it was his firm conviction, that one great cause was the want of public confi denee in the House of Commons—( Hear, hear).—.. This was not confined to any class, and much less tb that called the Radicals ; it was the undivided opinion of high and low, and of the sensible part of the community, who equally despised the Radicals and the means they used to accomplish their ends ; but they felt there was something wrong in the Repre-1 sentation, and that their interests were unattended to here. • Was this unreasonable? Do they not see Ministers come every day to this House with new propositions for supplies of men, money, and the enactment rof now 'awl. They see every requisition acceded to—every suggestion acted upon ; yet the Revenue stagnates, and the needs of the State in crease. How, then, can they separate that House from the acts of the Ministers? yet in the teeth of these facts, there come men who say, this House has no confidence in Ministers, and they would have them put more in them—(Hear, hear). To this House, 'then, are the Country looking, and a Reform in its Representation must be the first step to remove dis contents. But the inferences drawn from this rea soning were not founded upon theory alone, the Country had felt the practical effects of the want of identity of interests with them in the Members for a numbitt of years, and that the Representation was not useful to them—(Hear, hear). He was a friend to Reform, and he.thanked the Honourable Member who moved the Address, for the kind disposition he had expressed towards the accomplishment of it in a rational way. But he was free to confess, his senti ments upon it were not quite so sanguine as they might have been at ono time of his life. With in: creasing years, he had increased in clution, and many schemes which, in the hey-day of youth, would have been gladly fostered by the warmth of his imagination, had now lost their value 'with their rilliancy. But he flattered himself, whilst he kept clear of one extreme, he had not run into the other. To think with those who asserted that there was not room for any improvement, and that no change could be effected without a manifest endangering our., Constitution, was now as far from his ideas as it was from the most heated friend to Reform. Reform, he contended, was not the creature of recent times, it was agitated in the American war, and was then taken up by Mr. Pitt, who, as a Minister, did more for it than any other man whatever. It slumbered for many years alter, but the practical necessity for it which then existed, exists at this moment, and the same glandes to its advocates to persevere—(Xnm, hear !).....When the country see that the House of Commons are the guardians of the publie purse, whorls else are they to blame for any mismanagement of it ? When they see that the House of Commons are the thind Inquest of the Nation, and the protec tors. of its peace, at whose door but that of the Hbuse must they lay every infringement of that peace, or neglect to take cognizance of it ? The question of Reform can silver be stifled ; so Wag as the Representation of the People continues to be a part 1 1 of the Constitution, so long will discussion arise, and I differences of opinions exist as tothe extent of its purity Or impurity. Unfortunately there are men at this moment who are Ultras in the notions they have of the extent to which it might be carried in this House. lee his part, no man could be a greater enemy to Radicals than he was, mid no one could feel more contempt, for their proceedings, or the objects they 'had in viaw--(Cries of Hear, hear). But it was un candid to confound the cause of Reform withsome of these men, who only used it as a watch-word to .design it would be terrible to name. Others were vo tariesthC of it from a certain vanity to be leaders We p a rty; but „these were only conspicuous by their paucity of talent, and the complete ignoraucc they displayed of its purposes--(Hear, hears) It would also be fair to add, that there were not want ing men who made use of it for the very worst of purposes. So much then for the Radicals, against whom he positively set himself; and he trusted this plain denunciation would satisfy the Honourable Member that there was some distinction between , him (Mr. Tierney) and tht-m---(Cries of Hear, hear). If more was necessary, he would go further, bat .with one word more he would quit the subjeet, " It seemed to hare been insinuated that, through patity • able to arrest those .against who's he had Oa iitar: mill without a military force: But when the arrest was Made, wily then conntiit any acts against the Multitude? —(Hear, hear). The next question was,• did or did not the Magistrates approve of this? If they did not, it was very easy for them to have-put a stop to it, for they must have seen the affair from theii windows, and might have drawn off the military, when they were no longer necessary. But now to turn to their diseretihn t—When an armed foi-ce becartie necessary, why employ the Yeomanry Cavalry ?. , (Hear, hear). Why bring Intel the field, men who had ltical.antipa thies and animosities, in preference to the regular troops, who would h:.te no such temptltions to out stretch their duty, and whose presence, as they could be removed, would not serve to keep up party feel hits ? He had no doubt, if regular troops had been employed, the lamentable consequences which fol lowed would never have taken place. The subject was altogether one fit for inquiry, and the llonse, without at all countenancing illegal Meetings, was bound to set it on foot. It was the surest way of in spiring confidence, by shewirtg the People that Par; liament were not indifferent to the violation of their rights.. If it was true that inquiry was in process before the Law Tribunals, it would be certainly un just, by giving an opinion here, to prejudge the question. But he doubted much whether it would come in such a shape as to open the door to the dis= cussion of the real merits of the case ? The prosecu tion of Mr. Hunt could not throw any light upon what took place before the Meeting, it could only refer to what passed regarding him individually.— As Legislators, they need not fear a collision with these tribunals, for it was their duty to see and in.; quire how so many persons came by their deaths ? Redress, in the ordinary way, Was said to be open to them. But was the fact so. or not ? He would ask, could a multitude, composed of the poor,. and the many, obtain redress froth a Bench of Magistrates? • John Thompson might strike George Jackson, and for this George Jackson will obtain redress. But when a poor multitude was opposed by a few rich and powerful men, and these too supported by Minister, who, it should never be forgotten, had taken all pains to crush inquiry, it was idle to talk of redress (Hear, hear 1)--Nor was it enough that Ministers abetted the Magistrates; they had also been. thanked by the Prince Regent, which was worse than all— (Hear, hear!). —He had never met any man, whether a friend or foe to Ministers, who did not say he was sorry for this measure, and that of all the unadvised measures they had ever adVentrired upon, this was the worst. Ministers had no other means of get ting information but from those who were con cerned, and whose interest it was to misreprcient facts—(Hear, hear . 1 ). —This Was all the evidence upon which these thanks were given ! Thus lightly did they act, in an affair in which so many. lives were lost. The, Manchester Magistrates now stood in the situation of men in office, and the Noble Lord (Cattle reagh) would excuse him, if he gave the House.to understand, that he would :mach no credit to any statement he would make that night—(A It was said, that in this inquiry all party feelings should be laid aside, and the question of the riot viewed only with reference to itself. This was cer tainly the true way of examining it ;.but how far had the other side carried this candour? Did it appear from their acts, that they were actuated by au asten dein to the ends of public justice alone? They have dismissed from his office of Lord Lieutenant, for no other offence than differing in opinion from them. on this occasion, a most respectable Nobleman, and yet; Ministeers persevere in saying they have no• other object bUt the general good—(Hear, hair, ;:ear). — Had it been the object of Ministers to give general dissatisfaction by any measure, they could not have chosen a Nobleman more generally sympathized with—(hear, hear). A Nobleman who was As touch respected as he was extensively known—Wear, hea;.. For twenty years he had discharged the duties of that - high office, with honour to himself and benefit to his country, yet he found no security in all this, from the degradation of being removed from his ()fine. lie (Mr. Tierney) had. differed with that Noble Lord on the remedies which ought to be applied for some for. mer disturbances, but still he believed him a man of the best heart, and in that County which he go verned, to his (Mr. Tierney's) certain knowledge, he was the great stay for the tranquillity of the country. By his exertions he tranquillized. Yorkshire, and the return he met with was to be dismissed: In that County there was a great share of disaffection, but so great was the influence of Earl Fitzwilliaiii, that the People offered themselves to be enrolled for the pre servation of the peace. He had used the phrase de• gradations—and, he repeated, he considered it a de gradation to be removed at the present moments the Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh here smiled) might smile; but it was not unusual for the Noble Cord to smile, when, at the same time, he felt sore— (A laugh). It might, perhaps, be true, that the Noble Lord had little feeling for Lord Fitzwilliain ; but could he bring any charge against him ? Could' he adduce one instance, in which he had refused to go Where his presence was necessary to suppress riot or disorder ? No—he did not pretead to that, but the• argument he used was, , s that we must have no one who does not confide in usi and we in him."— This may be good policy, but ft was against good faith—for the Ministers now argue, that' they had nothing in view but the public interest !—( Hear). — Some have undertaken to commend this act of the Government, which they call well-timed vigour, and say, that the Ministers have shewn a firmness, necm• • sary in such times. This affectation of vigour seemed. not to be confined to this transaction. alone. At Man chester, the injudicious arrest of Mr. Hunt, at the hustings, in the misist of the multitude, as it it could not he better done elsewhere, may as well be deemed an exertion of vigour—(Hear, hear), The sane • observation would apply to the arrest of a person of . the name of Harrison, at the Meeting . in Smhhfield —(Hear). Why subjea the Metropolis to the danger of a tumult, the consequences of which no one could calculate upon, only to take a man at twelve o'clock. on one day, who might as well. have been taken at twelve the nest day ? Such were the reasons for in= quiry, and such are the rhotives which prevented hint from putting confidence in Ministers, who, on the grounds furnished them, thanked the Manchester. . Magistrates in the way they had done. Ile was at a . 'loss to know how they could ask for it, until. they had explained what use was made of the share wish which they were entrusted. it Was . wineaqulitry . - ,• _ •.- . • 411.10411616... • Ot object, he had connected himself with the Radi cals. The truth was, he was no faxoUrite at all trith them, fdr they not-only abused their immediate op ponents wild were in office, but also beitowed a sort of post obit compliment on all who had ever been in (A laugh) ; yet he did not much blarrie them, for the Government seemed to give countenance to the vitu peration of some of the minor publicutiotii, assuming that the sufferance they gave them was an atonement of their acts. Whether the tact was so or not, he would not undertake to say ; it was - enough for him to have given an opinion upon the state of the country, and he hoped he had made himself understood— (Hear, hear). He would again repeat, there was a great want of confidence in the People towards that House, which was reasonably increased by the prac tical proofs of the inutility of the Representation for the last ten years, and the cause of Reform was in= creasing from day td day. It created incessantly a . fever in the public mind, and exposed it to all the designs of men interested in making it •the tool of other purposes. But the mischief was not of that giant size which it was said to be—(Hear, hear). — Few partizans were attached to the doctrines of An nual Parliaments and Universal Suffrage, and the accounts of Reform Meetings should be received with great caution : when we read accounts of hundreds of thousands marching from one town to another, with flags and emblems, it should always be recol lected that the leaders of them are the identical per sons who are playing the same game in different places. There were some 40 or 50 persons on per= manent duty, who, lay the excitement of flags and speeches, were always sure to collect a mob of the idle and unemployed, in every town through which they passed ; but of all the thousands assembled, he was sure, if the question was put, very few of them would be able to answer about Election by Ballot, or Universal Suffrage. It was true, many such Meetings were held in different parts of England, but as things will ever find their level, there could be no danger apprehended from them. Whocould hear of a Meeting to return a certain Baronet as their Legislatorial Attorney, (for they had too great horror to say Member), to this House, (which by the way would be the worst trip he ever took in his life), and not feel pity arid contempt for them ? It was merely owing to their moderation that more were not sent up, for they might with as much pro priety. have chosen ten Legislatorial Attornies as one! From such causes then no alarm was to be enter tained ; but there were Gentlemen in that House, who, by running into the opposite extreme, were Radicals at the other end.'These were they Who maintained that any alteration in the Representation I was incompatible with the Constitution. Such men were no better than those who sent up the worthy Baronet, as their Legislatorial Attorney. Did it never occur to them, that there was a great difference in the condition of this country, compared with what it was forty or fifty years agot Delegation was then an unexplained mystery, and the Public knew no thing of the proceedings of its Representatives, save through the misty medittni of Roman and unintel ligible names ; reading was not general:- But now there were three to one who read the proceedings of the Senate, and with whom their conduct was matter of comment; very often of the least fa vourable nature—(Year, hear !).—lt was wisdom to temporize ; what was venerable some forty or fifty years .ago, was now oppression, and what was then safe was now insecure. This was not the age to use the language of intolerance, saying, " I must hear nothing of changes," why every man in the street was .able to see the difference. But if their object was, by new laws and fresh troops, to stifle the pro gress of reason, and putting themselves at the head of these troops, say, " we alone are capable of judg ing of the changes 'which ought to be made," they / were greatly mistaken, and were arrival at a dread ful crisis. Such was the state of things upon the 16th August last, a day which the Honourable Gen tleman spewed his good sense by not alluding to. Up to that time, the subject upon which public dis cussion fed itself was the doctrine of Parliamentary I Reform ; but the circumstances of that day have given a new tone and bias to the public mind. Re form was henceforward lost sight of, and entirely ab sorbed in the superior ittwortance of the other.— Neither was this feeling local nor confined to para• calm - districts ; it was the almost general expression of the whole Country. He had had no particular wish to propose an Amendment originally, but seeing that no allusion was made to the subject upon which the whole Country were calling upon the Prince for an inquiry, he consideted it would be disappointing the Country to be silent upon it: He was unwilling to go into a detail of the circumstances attending that day, but it was a subject calling upon the House to institute an inquiry, as well for the justification of the Magistrates themselves, as for the satisfaction of the People-- , (Hear, hear). Without giving an opi nion, or prejudging the question, the facts which were not disputed, were such as to call for inquiry; —Here was an unarmed multitude—for what pur pose assembled was very immaterial, who were rode in upon, and cut down in hundreds by the military I If this did not require investigation, what did? (Hear). He made much allowance for the state of mind and the party feelings which separate the rich from the poor in these disturbed districts, but still, where blood had been shed, it required to he justified—(Neer, hear).—lt had been said, a very strung cause was al ready before the Law Tribunals of the country, which• would, eventually, satisfy the ends of public justice. If this was really the case, he much rejoiced at it ; indeed feelings so sore deserved to be satisfied, and it was unwise to delay it one moment. The Meeting was said to be illegal. Granted ; the leaders sedi tious, and the people traitorous ; granted also, for the sake of the argument. But it was at this moment that the grievance began. Why, after tli,! leaders were taken up without resistance, and their bodies lodged safely hefore the Magistrates, did the military force still remain to disperse the assembled multi tude ? They were then a mob without a leader, a body without a head, and an army without a Gene ral, yet nothing has since been heard of but horsemen cutting . down men, women, and children, without distinction, unresisting, and inoffensire—(Heer).— It'Was true, many of these accounts have been exag gerawkbut still there remain " stufiborn facts," to wlike cannot ehtit our eyes—persbns brought in wowed, and Inqluests 'holden on the dead. Why me the military at all called in ? They .may say it was because Mr. Nadin expressed his doubts of being . , n I ~. it I ~i~