Star. — London, England, 1804-03-03 00:00:00

Mr. FOX raid, .nrith termite to tart pamphlet writ ten by a Noble Friend of big, to which fo much ill 6 . effeßs had been attributed, he was convinced that whatever effects it produced, they were good ones. He hoped the pamphlet Would be taken up by the Committee, and fairly read and fully diktats!. and • fare he was, that thole Gentlemen who (poke fo much againli the pamphlet4onlda s piyhe Noble Lord who wrote it, an highelso•pen then to refute it, if they could; 'The pamphlet had no au- Corky from the experience oldie Noble Lord, who was too young to claim any , weight of authority on that ground. Whatever authority abed, mull there fore be on the ground of the arguments it contain ed, and to the - force of thole arguments (and clearer ce more irrefragable never fell front the pen of any .man), malt its effects be attributed. An Honour . able Gentleman (Mr. Dick), had Paid, that parlia , mentary interference could. no more teed an alter ation in the rate of eachange between this country 'and Ireland, than it could affed the exchange of .Hamborgh. BerPwas the Honourable Gentleman _spill Wormed, as not to know that a parliamentary .interference bad moll materially affeded the • es• change of Hambnrgh about 33 years ago, when, by an AR of Parliament, the deficiencies Of our gold • coin were correded, which produced an immediate sod important alteration in the rate of exchange ? ,Who then could fay it was impragicable for Parka tem to,produce a remedy now, for the diCadvan tageons nate of the exchange with Ireland : when, by an Ad of • don in 1773, fo great an alter scion was in the exchange of Hamburg!), 14r.,Fentioncludedbi exprelfing great obligation to the Right Honourable .Gentlentan who brought for ward the enquirt, and his hope that it would be pro. dudive Of the &fired effedi. • Mr. DICK explained. Mr. DENT Paid a few words, bet inaudibly ; mad the motion being agreed to. a Committee was ap.' pointed, among whom are the foUowing Members:— Mr. rola. Lord A. Hamilton. Lord Wray Petty, Mr. Pitt, Pdr. Pat, Mr. Grey, Mr: Role, Mr. Canning, Sir William Pat tatll 81r jabs Newport. Mr. J. C. Betwitse4, urn/imam, ' m a Mr. Broides; No to boo quorum. Mr. CORRY rofe to move the Order of the Day. f ew going into a Committee on the Ira C.onfolida tion Duty AB. WI, waisites - . . Mr. GREY role and bid, he had a queflion to elk of his isidates Minikes, which he &cold have put previopts to the action for the,Canivait t e s .b e d he (up. poled the ditcuffion upon it would have extended to fuels a length. It watt a queftion equally affeaing the Public. the Sovereign, and the Houfe, and the fen& he entertaiged of his duty would not allow him to abflain one moment from poftpming it. An ex planation had been given in another hoof., in anfwer to a queftion refpeAing the Rate of his Majefty's health, which, though it might appear, on the 6rft thew, calculated to give fatisfaetion to the Public, bad, fo far from producing that fatisfaltion, rather iftereafed the anxiety sad doubt the Public naturally bad upon fo Yawning a fabjed. What he therefore rote for was, to ant of the Right Hon. Gentleman. whether the words he bad ufed in this Houfe, upon a former oceafton, in order to prevent any ambiguity or mifunderftanding, and, if pollible, convey to the Houle that fatisfabon as to the Rate of his Majefly's health, which it could not but be the wills of every Hon. Gentleman and every loyal fubjea to obtain. --The words which he uuderflood the Right Hon. Gentleman had ufed were, that there was no' now any neceffary fufpenflon of the perfonal exereife of the Royal Authority." He waited to underiland whether, in making that declaration. the Right Hon. Gentleman meant to Rate that the perfonal esercife of the Royal Authority was completes!—( /bar, leer esciaiimed many of the Mewsina.) And further, to pre vent ambiguity and mifunderßanding, he wilted to know whaler it was to be uncterftood that the Houfe was to take him as pledged to this ettneruaion of the words, 41 that his Majelly was not prevented by in elifpofition from attending to bonnets; and that the public affairs would not, in the event of any emer gency, be neceffarily furpended." Tbefe were the words he had now thought proper to adopt, in order to avoid any mitunder (landing. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would give the explanation requir. ed of him; and he alto trolled he would Rate, whe. ther what he had afferted refted on his own know ledge, derived from his perfonal aced& to his Majefly, in the cherafter he held as his confidential (errant, or whether on the information of all his phyliciansf? He had put thefe quetlions in cxpet9ation of that anfwer an anxious and faithful people were delimits of, and of that explanation it was his duty. as a Member of the Houle, to demand. His objcA was, that the 1-lonfe of Commons might know, whether they were continuing to tranfaCt public bufinefs in a way con fident with their duty to the people, or whether they were by the curare of their legiflative functions, vio lating the principles of the conititution ? He trolled the anfwer he ilionld receive would be explicit and Complete. No one would rejoice more than himfelf if it fhould prove fo; at prefent he fhould do nothing farther to interrupt the progrefs of the buGoo“. which yefterday Rood as the order of the day ; but if the anfwer was not fatisfaeory and complete, there would be a farther duty for the Houk to perform, which could not be delayed beyond a very new days. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re• 'Vied in nearly the following terms: As to the sitellion which the Honourable Member has now put to me, I have to fay, that there can be no diffe• vence of opinion fo far as it is a queftion connected with all the feelings and ftntiments peculiar to a loyal and A ffeCtionate people. On a former evening, my defire was to declare, and that too in as explicit terms as pelliblc. all the information in my priftel lion, refperging the health of the Sovereign, derived from every pwlibk informatien which I could bring together on the fubjeel. 1 then tlated, what I now beg leave to repeat, and to which I wilt the Hon. GLutlernan to refer. What I then Rated was not founded un light grounds, and I have difcovered no grounds to induce me to think that my opinions were erroneous. I have only to add, that I have sat h fterf.nal actef: 11 llu Majyry. isl that a Idler area non la: brew Ifirded me, where*+ Ifamed ay itt not, sr.:Ja tl: 1-atiitunts of all :helm* Psiz.issi at kada:c Ili, 1 1 1:0:11y." Mr. GRLY WAS not by any means fatisfied with this explanation, and give notice of his intention to introduce a fpecific motion on an early day. Mere thy bistuuta tattled. elfWt!/ ACTS; Mr. CORRY role so move, that that Hoofs do p into a Committee on the Ira Revenue Aas. Mr. PITT thought as none of the Aas expired before the 25th of March. and as the dikuilion, if entered upon this evening, would be protraaed. it would be more ezpedient to defer the difcaffion to another night—the fajta of Alta important smell faty was one en which the leap pable delay ought to be admitted. Mr. CORRY entered completely into this view of I the fubjea. end declared that he would be perfealy fatiafied if the H.cule was merely to go prefesoia into the Committee. It might afterwards be expedient to report progrefs, and the Collamittee might meet again on a future day. Mr. FOSTER agreed in the expediency of this fi♦ggellion. - The Houfe accordingly refolved into the Commit- tee. The refolutions were agreed top* fens.. and the report ordered to be received to-morrow. On the motion of the SECRETARY at WAR, the Hoare went into a Committee on the bfatiny The Bill paired the Committee. end as report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow. TOLUIITAII BILL COMMITTiI. Mr. Secretary YORKE obferved, that be bad fevers) clanks to move, and as many other Mem. ben might alfo have clauks to triing forwaril, he thought at wmild be much better, and be fuppoied it would be more agreeable to the Houk, that dif coffions On the general priociple of the Bill Ihould be waved till the debate upon the report. One amendment which he had to move went to confine the operation of the Bill -to Gwent Britain, es the Corps exilling in Ireland were all formed ender Ads of Parliament paired in that !country before the Union. Another was, that all Corps of Yeomanry .or Volunteers tbould be continued. enters his Ma. jelly Should Gina) , his intention to,difbattd or difcon; Aisne any eUrneh Corr, by orders ifrued through oae of his Metieltrw pntteipal Secretaries of State. He prepared that to this claurelhotdd be added, "or any tart of filch Corps." Sir W. YOUNG proceeded to animadvert on the prefent Rate of the Volunteer Syftem. He ob. jetted in very warm terms to the extent to which the Volunteer Sylteen had been carried. He thought now, as be bad formerly exprelled, that by far too great a part of the population of the country was locked up in die Volunteer Eftablifhtnent. The fyi - - tem of exemptions was carried to a moftnwarrant. able and ruinous length. Utiles Come re ltviaion was introduced it was radiation to talk of ever having an efficient regular force. The Volunteers as they at prefent exifted, merely operated to the diminution, or rather the deftrudion, of the regular army. He was convinced that thee who bad not entered into Volunteer Corps from any other motives than thole of mere exemptions, thould not be entitled to any privileges. He fuggelted. therefore, the propriety of a claufe by which it flould be eluded. that all Corps of Volunteers accepted face the . a7th of July, fhould not henceforth claim the benefit of any ex emption. As the Volunteer Syfiem now flood. there was no regular, accurate divifion of the different c6ffes in the community. The firft clots, whkh was in the nature of things the molt efficient clefs, was not called on its a proportion nearly equal to the original intentions of the Legiflature. It did appear to him that exemptions on filch an extenfive reale muft be given up as utterly fubverfive of any regu lar military eflablithment applicable to the prefent circumllances of Europe. The Ali of the aad of his Majelty was the Aa on which he thought the Vo. lunteers ought to be governed. The AA of the 43c1 was an Aa of a totally different nature. It was not in the firft infiance applicable to voluntary fervice. and thofe enrolled under this Azt would not proceed on the former principles of voluntary fervice. The Hon. Baronet enlarged fomewhat on this point, and at length concluded by declaring his intention to Cub. snit a motion in terms of his fPeech. Mr. PITT expreffed himfelf decidedly boa& to the propoftiun which the Hon. Baronet had brought forward. To him it feemed utterly fubverfive of the whole Volunteer Ellabliffiment. The faith of Par liament was already pledged to the Volunteers, and to violate that pledge was a meafure to which he could not linen, even for a moment. Exemptions to a certain extent had been held out to all Corps, and it was not rarely now for any Gentleman to move, that thefe exemptions, tO folemnly held forth, Ihould, without the fenallefl reafonable came, be withdrawn. Parliament had faid, that in contequence of exercife for a certain number of days, certain private es Ihould be allowed. During the days fpe• cified, this exercife had been regularly gone through, and was it then, after the previous atiurances of Par liament, to be laid, that all thefe exertions were to be without any adequate reward ? It wa, not denied by the Hon. Baronet, that his principle was not meant to be univerfally applied. There were certain Corps of Volunteers which were t., continue in the exercife of all their privileges, but the dittiation a. to time and place attempted to be introduced. was one which he himfelf could not fail to confider pe culiarly ungracious. The Hon. Baronet bad pretty roundly laminated, that there was one deferiptit , n of Volunteers who came forward from the moil patri otic motives, while others were merely prompted by a with to evade the labours of compulfory fervice.— The allegation, which went the length of affirming that that part of the community which was molt cal culated for fervice, had been locked up by the Vo- lunteer fyfiem, was one with which it was altogether impoilible for him to coincide. It had been infirm. med. that thofe who did not enter into Volunteer Corps in the firft inflame poked - rid no degree a merit, but merely fell on this as the heft expedient to exchange compulfory Crevice. To this objeaion he conceived that the anfwer was at once clear and conclutive. Praia:neat Lad held out certain induce ments to voluntary offers of fet vice. The public had lifiened to thefe inducements. A great body of voluntary fervice had made its appearance, far in deed beyond what even the fault fanguine expeltat ions had anticipated. Was it then for Parliament, after fueh an affurance had been given, and after it had been thus aged upon, to dslavow every former af furance, and to withdraw every inducement to a fpecies of fervice, which, in the fiat inn awe. was the fubjeCt of, he might fay, univerfal approbation. Parliament laving held out particular inducements to voluntary fervice. it was neither juit nor politic to tetrad what had beet: offz:ed :ton. confuicrations of wife and liberal policy. It coati not be pre tended that there was any want of seal in the difplay of national pagiotifm. On the contrary, public fpirit had °untapped •every previous anti cipation. It was not fair then to contend that there was no merit, when the fpirit of the country far outfiripped the demands or even the hopes of the Government. The idea of the Hon. Baronet was therefore in every point of view to be reprobated.— To fuppofe that all Volunteer Corps accepted fince the syth of July fisould be deprived of exemptions, would be a dired breach of conned. The fad was that this would be a moll inaccurate and abfurd dif tindion. There were many individuals in Volunteer Corps formed previous to that time, who had en tered at a much later period. and he fho_ Add be glad to be informed on what principle it was thit individuals ffe(Greg every claim to the fame exemptions, fhould be placed on an inferior footing t The Right Hon. Gentleman baying gone through thole topics, con cluded by expreSing a hope that the Hon. Baronet would withdraw his ;amendment. Mr. WINDHAM profeffed his unwillingoels to enter into the general fubjed on the precut oceafion. He thought it would be better to have all the amend went, introduced into the Bill, and regularly before the Honfe, previous to any difeulfion of the general principle of the Volunteer Syffens. The Right Hon. Member Paid a few words on the general fubjea of exemptions, but as this will be more folly dilculfed on a future day we decline entering on it at the pre feat moment. He declined giving a decided opinion, but thought that it was a matter for very grave con fideration. Mr. FULLER agreed in the general sentiments eapreffed by Mr. Pitt.. The Volunteers bad come out lite men. They were ready, and had offered to come ant before the comptilfory fervice ; they were not willing to appear like itapreffed men. The Hon. member then took notice of fornething that had been Paid refpetling_the de fi ciencies in the Militia of the County of Suffez;iihith, he obferved, arofe greatly from its extent of ninety miles of coaff, obit/. woo dog thefsafsde—(o load LgiS !)—in confequence of which there was a lefs number of adjacent Cosaties, from which to draw fubfikutes ;—but he had no doubt that deficiency would loon be found to ceafe. Here tome explanations and comedian took place between the Hon. Member and the Secretary of State, when he concluded by defin i ng the Houle to laash as much as they pleafed—(a Lath). Mr. Secretary YORKE did not deem it neceffary to make any reply to the fpetvls of the Hon. Baro: net, as that had been fo fully refuted in the tt:t There was the Right Hon. Gentleman behind him. was one thing which the Right Hon. Gentleman op polite to him teemed to requeli, to which be could not certainly bring lunifelt to agree ; and that was the collecting all the aides that might be intended by erg the Members of that Houle, in a mats on the table. But if Gentlemen would receive his amend ments pv forina. they would then fee the Bill in the ante in which he winged to put it, and it might go through the Committee, be printed, and re com mitted for another day. He thought, under there circumfiances, that it might be printed and laid on the table on Toefday at fartheS, perhaps on Monday next. Mr. FULLER explained. . _ _ Mr. CURWEN walled that an account of the numbers in the different claffes compofing the Vo lunteer Cot ps fliould be laid on the table. The infer ence from fuch an account, he was convinced, would be to thew that the greater part of thefe Volunteers beyond the firfi daft, were men who could not an. body themfelres with any particular reference to ex emptions. Colonel CRAUFORD thought that the Hon. Baronet would be induced to wave his amendment, if it were contented to recommit the Bill. He mull however take Tome opportunity now, or on another occafion, of delivering his fentinsents, as he gave fo decided a preference to an Armed Peafantry.- 21formturr. Mr. PITT thought that it would be very wove °lent to the Houle to know what courfe was to be taken, provided that at all events too much delay were not ocealioned. It had been cults:unary in fimi lar cafes frequently to recommit a Bill. For his own part, he had no intention to propofe his intended claufes that night, but he Mould with to put the 1-inufe in poffelEon of what he intended to move in the Committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wifhed to confult the convenience of the Houfe. He agired with Mr. Yorke's ideas refpetting the propof ed claufes, and thought it better to have the objat of the dailies dated previoufly. Sir WILLIAM tOUNG declined preffing hi. amendment, but contended, that the Volunteers en rolled after the :7th of July, could not be confider ed as cnimistg within the original meaning of the Volunteer Sytlern. Mr. Secretary YORKE then rofe and faid, that he uncle, Rood the chitties were now to be received pre forma. the Bill to go through the Committee, and the report afterwards to be brought up. and recom mitted. fe that Gentlemen might all be enabled to fee it in the way in which they waited. He could not agree with all the fuggeßions of the Right Hon. Gentleman under the gallery behind him, much as he approved of many things which he threw out. He hoped the principle of the Volunteer fyllem would not unneceirartly be introduced into this difcuffion.— The objea of the Houle, at the prefent moment, he prefumed to be, to endeavour to ilrengthen it. It was not a departure from the General Defence Bill, but was indeed a very great facility for the calling out of the Mats, Mould that meafure be rendered ad ' vikable, inafmuch as by this fyfiem the public were provided with a number of Volunteer comtriffioned and non.commidioned Officers, ecc. He then took a brief review of the hillory of our Volunteer Corps, more particularly with refpeß to the allowances.— No Corps in the kingdom, he believed, had, in point of falk, ezercifed lets than 3o to as. and even to so days, and he thought that urril the hay feafon com menced. it was very proper and necerfaty to encou rage them to obtain as much more dilcipline as pof. fible ; for whatever other Gentlemen might think, he would much rather fee them well difcaplined than irregular. The Right Hon. Gentleman behind him had mentioned various modes with this slew. He had MR obferved that so days was an infufficient time. He bed then adverted to a sonde of calling aina out on pay fora limited time, with a barmy . . .: : - - Ott ler that AR, by isitielt 14,00 0 Volnutemir barb . already been calle d out finer November. HO had likewife propofed 33, or 40 days exercife, - with .he i addition of the affihnce of regular Officer,. That . fracas had been adopted in fume maritime tom . ties, and might be carried to a greeter ethnic. It would, however, be neeeffary to welder .tise amount of the eapence, and whether the *dragnets is fully equivalent. The felons of the lirobisteer Corps in thefe repeal', could not be, gembilliked ; local circumaances mutt be attended to. Sonnialelge might defove particularextenfions, but dark mull be determiued by the parti cu lar charm= of the relpeßive cafes. As to the 'alliance of Ike. gular Officers, there was no hindrance whatever '2l relent to the employment of (rich Officers in Nth as defired to have them ; there were al. ready Cl many loch. In the old Cogp• it was istre thought advif ea bl e to give pay toField &freers. It was not connoted that they were in Militias . to Rand in need of it. In the modern Corps, the affiance has been given only to Adjutants, Aar the principle of economy, he very readily indeed that there was nothin! more agamti ecessonny *Mr than to be pitiful ; yer he thought it better to begin fornethint under the mark. Having maibtaindd thefe points to which the Right Hon. 'Gentleman had adverted, he mull fay he did not think it Deca -1 fary to make them the &Ned of legiflativeirovi fions, and therefore bad not introduced them into this Bill. A word or two more on the fubjeft of per manent pay. It was in his Majellys power to call out the Volunteer., and to place them ar.d.:r alartial law. He intended to move, that whenever;on being fo called oat, they received the alloWance of ewe ~gainea, or other funs in advance, it ihould be token out of the two goings, bounty, allowed on coming into afloat fervice: and that after the defeat and es pulfion of the enemy, they Mould, on returning home, receive the farther allowance of one guinea encore..- He ihould next advert to two other peons which were thought matter for Legination. line,. 'Ake Right Hon. Gentleman thought itseeeffary to woke • a claufe or claufes to regulate the doubts refpeeking the eleitioo of Officers, which slid not appear 8,- 1 ceffary. He had never heard any body doubt the King's power to commillion, or to empower the Lord Lieutenant to commilfion s mw his Slajefly's to rejs thole who might be recommended even by the Lord Lieutenant. .All the difference was, . where there were exprefi regulations upon the fob 7jeil. He knew of no Carps bit one, the London and Weltmintler Light Horfe, which he bad ma• tioned befiwe, as being thus ciresuntlanced. It was an old corps. and often dißingoillsed itfelf. Nobody he underflood could, by the conaitutioa of that corps, be admitted a member of it without the King'. approbation, and if they had a power to re commend Officers, they might be refafed." But when on aßual ferrite they had as fuch power, for then all rife by feniority from the highs& down to 1 the !owe& Officer, who is then fucceeded, in cafe of 1 vacancy. by the fenior private. So peculiar was their confiitution ; and as he had found them. fa he left them. But it was in this town that people feast ed to imagine every thing was contained, and than bucaufe two or three corps thought in fuch a meaner of their foppoled powers, that it was the fame thing every where. It would, doubtlefs, be highly impolitic and highly abfurd to introduce perfons into the fitna. lion of officers in corps who were not refpedable, nor agreeable to the corps : nor indeed was the Lori Lieutenant bound to fend in every name. In the coun try the cafe was very different from what fonts peo ple imagined. Where gentlemen of influence had raW. ed numerous corps, no fuel pretenfion had ever been thought of. It was therefore a matter to be regu lated entirely by circumflances ; and he could fee no. thing like a general rule that applied to it. He could fee no ufe for any alias refpetting Committees p-.. their objeß was merely Tor pecuniary 'natters, and whenever they have attempted to go beyond their limits, they have been checkeil. They are merely a Committee of Paymafters, and military Gentlemen ' may eafily underhand their utes in that particulate The next point was the mode in forcing regularity. He was adverfe to claufes for fines and imprifou ment, as being again(' the very principles of Volun teering. He inuit think that the preient power of the Officers was futficient for that porpok. The belt mode of proms !log their regularity was to invite them to come out on permanent pay and duty. Chinks of this nature might have a tendency greatly to leffen the number of the Volunteers, but it would be againtt the principles of the Defence At itfelf. For it was laid to the people. 4. it you come out, the operations of this AEI, as compulfory as you think it, Gall be fulpended." But if. when they bad come nett, we made ufe of compulfion, might they not be gin to think that entire faith was not kept with theme The Right. Hon. Secretary then proceeded to time the objea of the clanks he delign..l to introduce :-- t. Pcriiins ailing a, Volunteers were not to late their exemptions, within a certain period to be hereafter determined.-2. A hriunty to be given to Volunteers on their coming out in the firit instance, when called upon, and another on their return to their homes.... 3. To fettle the mode in which Volunteers, after re. figning, (hall be liable to the ballot. As the law now Rands, they are liable immediately on quitting the Corps. The exemptions of all are now propofed to be put on the fame footing, and none to be exempted unlefs they attend exercife 24 days. A great deal of power mull be given to the Deputy Lieutenants in refpeß to fume material regulations, on account of the impoffibility of ellabliflung general rules for each county, as their propriety or untitnefs MIA depend upon local circumtlanees. Other clanks mull be intro. duced, inffiding penalties upon thole who (ball affill the Volunteer, in difpcf.ng of their arms and accou. trements. Others to enable the Commanding Officers to appoint place.% to deprlit the arms of the ref i reatre corp. ; and to krcp fuck arm. in proper order and repair. The expence of thefre depots to le difeharged by the General of the dillrid. out of the land tax, inlie.ol of leaving it to be paid by the perillies and di(lrits; but this charge mull be limited to a certain turn. Another claufe to be directed to remove the doubt refpeaing the Commanding Officer having fog power to difchArgc any nieninar of the corps he ball think proper. Further, if a qiiettiorr Itiould arife ma the lubjed cf any grienl'icr withdrawing. an appeal is deligned to be granted to the Lord Lieutenant—. The nght of withdrawing is only to apply when the corps as difensbodied i fur when embodied so rock riguidfica sap be given. Thek, Sonanded the Right