Star. — London, England, 1816-02-29 00:00:00

4 , . A measure, which was nevertheless pens •• unre lentingly. Mr. FORBES Steed that there was not one to* or ci•unty in. Scotland that was not preparing to pa eti.in - against the Piverty Tar, which in that coup try, was universally execrated— (Hear, hear)—* * lid to eipiess their Rim reliance on the faith of Podia ns,•nt that the proposal for its renewal would be abandoned. Mr. PONSONBY regretted that the Chancellor. the - Escbetiuer shod.' unforttinately happen to be absent. btst hoped that some of his friends whild repeat to him the declaratien made by the Honour able Member who had just sat down, that there was not one town or county in Scotland that was not ore- Firing to seild,la Petition against the Property Tax. He. trusted that Bight Honourable Gentleman would not have the: hid:tette, of refusing time to allow those Petitioni to be presented to the House. But even if .he did, be-would idvise the people' of Scot land to petition; and, to send forth their Petitions that they might rejected, and ~ t hat the nation might understand the.charaster of an A Aministra tion, who wished to force an inquisitorial Tax against the prayers of the people—(l/rue, hear). Lord MILTON was informed that no longer than last Monday a Meeting had been held at Leeds,and a petition unanimously agreed to. The lank was going w take place at Sheffield, and would the Right Honourable Gentleman, in the lace oldie' Pititioni and -the assemblies of the people, persist to propose his me.ssure immediately, when he knew that • the very first vote inks behalf, iu the Committee of Ways and Means, would shut the doors of the House against all Petitions 3• . Mr. ..!ARTIN said a few Words, after which the Petition w.is ordered to lie on the table. Sir THOMAS ACLANI) presented a Petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Dairy Farms, in the Cum-Ay of Devon, complaining of their distresses, and chiefly of the importation of foreign butter and cheese. _ _ Mr. GORDON thought that the importation of those articles was oue of the causes of the great dis tress experienced by farmers, and complained th it the papers for which he had moved in the early part al the Session, 'hewing the quantity of foreign but ter imported into the Country, had not been returned. The Petition was brought up, and ()Weave' to he oa the table. Mr. JOHN SMITH presented a Petition from the Town and County of Nottingham against the Property Tax. Mr. PHILLIPS wondered, That, after se many petitions, the Chancellor of the Exchequer still main 't .iced the same silence with respect to his intentions. He contended that a connexion existed between the Property 'fax and the Army Estimates, and that it wouid be unavailing to vote against the Tax, without previously voting against the Estimates. Mr. Fit EEMANTLE—ThoughIe did not wish to diminish the exertions of the country, he should congratulate it on the subdued tone of the other side of the House, or he should perhaps rather have said, on its 6:knee—(Xcar, hear.) —He thought they now had determined to surrender the Property Tax, and not bring it on. He thought it was impossible the Clrancel:or of the Exchequer should persist in it, far in point of tact, he could not derive the revenue from:; which he expected, and the impost would fail of its effect. He could nut better illustrate his meaning than by quoting the report made to a Col lector of Taxes at Coale, in a neighbouring is; fad. The subject, however, was the Assessed Taxes, and the report rather of a ludicrous nature. It was ad dressed to the Cillector, and ran thus: " Take no tice, that I have cut the throats of all my horses, have shot all my dogs, have burnt all my carriages, shut up all my windows, and dismissed all:my ser. Tants, except my wile and myself." He believed that it would be the same with the Property Tax as with the Assessed 'F.sres, and that if persisted in, it would not bring the revenue that was Anticipated. Lord COMPTON, in reply to the ch,lleuge of an Honourable Gentleman, should say that ix was in favour of The Property 'Fax, because he believed that it the Chancellor of the Exchequer were forced to, abandon it, he would pr-pose much worse taxes— (Hear, hear, and laughter,) —not through any disposi tion to oppress the ptopie, but because he could not help it. There was no other tax that would produce a 4 equal revenue. He knew this was unpopular lan page,,but when called upon to expresa his sentiments he had not shrunk from the invitation. Neither did be believe that his own Constituents were very adverse fp the Tax, A Petition against it had lain two days sat Northampton, which contained SOO freeholders, and only 28 signatures had been procured. Mr. PONSONBY congratulated the Noble Lord on the courage which he had displayed on this occa ;ion. He had put himself forward in the most manly and dignified manlier for his friends, when not one of them would say any thing for themselves. But he was no very warm supporter of the Property Tax. He rather preferred it, because he was afraid of the taxes which the Chancellor of the Exchequer might bring forth in its stead, and his preference would certainly not stand against the voice of the country. He supposed that his Constituents were not adverse to it ; but would they send -a petition to that House for that tax, instead of those contained in that box of evils which the . Chancellor of-the Exchequer held in his hand ready to set OPen—(hear.) He believed that the Noble Lord would not be long without joining_the call of the country, and declaring that the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to desist from his proposed tax. The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the table. BOAR° OF TAXIS. Mr. BROUGHAM complained of an extraordi. sf try return made bythe Commissioners of the Board of Taxes to an order 'of that House. He Wg4 not acquainted with any pf them, but lie thought it would be agreed that-they had committed a great indiscre. ton. 'the orders of that House were not to be tri fled with, and whatever difference of opinion might base prevailed. or however inconsidttrable the mstio- i pity might have been at the time they had been ac• ceded to and issued, those circumstances were not for the consideration of those to whom they were addres.' sod. The orderin question WAS for returns of the number of persons assessed under the Income Tax. To this the Commissioners of the Board of Taxes re plied. that the Income Tax had expired on the sth _of April, 18W. Did the Coutroirkittoriv pretead to 1 ' know better than say, and dietas Property TAX they proved Chas ded, that they supposed the Act 'that was meant was one for granting a tax out of the profits arising from Property Professions, Trades, and O ffi ces. Was not thatriady an Income Tax? Were professions or trades property ? Were offices property ? To be sure, Lord Arden called his office his own freehold, aed offices were often clung to ss the dearest property, but the tax upon them was of son income. The fling given bythe Commissioners might nave been submitted to, had they obiled the order, but there were no returns at all. The fault however lay perhaps more with the Trea sury, who ought not to have addressed the order to the Board of Taxes, which had not the power of pro ducing the information required. He did not mean to impute an intentional wish to mislead or delay, but his chief purpose was to demonstrate that no slight of any - kind should be shewn by any Board to the ordersof the House. He should decline doing more, in the expectation of some satisfactory expla• nation. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, that through mistake the order bad certainly been sent to the wrong office, the Board of Taxes not having before them the necessary documents to make up a return of the nature required. 'lle Right Ho nourable Gentleman then passed an encomium on the persons who composed that Board, and stated that directions should be given, in the proper quar ter, for making a proper return. The order, how ever, was not accurately worded. It called for the number of persons assessed. But as the Learned Gentleman must be aware that oae.person may be assessed several times, and a partnership only as one individual, it was clear that the end he sought for could not be attained. ; as the order was at present drawn up. He should therefore move, " For an account of the number of esselistnents in the City of London, under the 4tith and sSth of the King, cap. 63 and 65 ; and' a number of surcharges, from the sth of April, 1814, to the sth of January, 1815, diginguishing those which were coufirmed, or were partly, or altogether abandoned.* Mr. BROUGHAM insisted that the words" Pro perty TAX" snould be preserved. If they were left out, the Commissioners would imagine that the House had altered its order in consequence of the lesson given by thein. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was willing to retain those words • but suggested the propriety of having the orders in future so carefully worded that no mistake could arise. _ _ _ The SPEAKER obseiveit, dm all orders should be sent to the Treasury by the Serjeant at Arms $ but it was possible that a new officer, seeing the word •• Tax" on the paper, might have-conceived the Board of Taxes to be the place of its destination. The motion was then agreed to. CIVIL LIST ARREARS. Mr. BENNE* inquired, whether any expendi ture had taken place in the Civil List beyond the sum granted in the last year? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, an increase bad undoubtedly arisen in the Civil List expenditure, which would render it necessary to lay before Parliament certain accounts, which had been for tome time in preparation. When he laid these before the House, he should propose a measure for the future regulation of the Civil List. Mr. TIERNEY was astonished that they should be informed of an arrear in the expenditure of the Civil List, after what had been stated on the first day of the Session. In the last Session, a Bill was intro duced, by which it was enacted that on or before the • •.? Stli of February an account of such arrears for the preceding year should be laid before them, and now they were informed, by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that he would soon produce documents on this sub ject, which bad been long in preparation.—(Hear.) l'fie Hon. Gentleman who brought in that Bill (Mr. -Bankes) must see that its provisions were not all com plied with. He hoped, however, that the House „could nit pay one shilling of this increased expendi ture.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCE.L.LOR of the EXCI4EQUER said, the expenditure. though beyond the regulation, was not mote thAn the estimate of last year. Mr. TIERNEY." I have nothing to do with that. I objected to every item of List year's estimate. —(Hear, hear.)—When the vote is proposed on the present expenditure, it will be found one of the most impudent proceedings ever brought under the cogni. same of the House.—(Hear.) —And I hope that a lesson will be given to certain persons, by leaving them to pay their debts themselves. (Hear.) I wish this the mote particularly, because, in the last Ses sion, the House were not thanked for a vote of £135,000, which went to pay the debts of the Prince Regent. It seems to be looked on as a mere matter of course, that the House shall pay every thing which his extravagance may call for." Mr. BENNETT- 46 I hope the Right Honour able Gentleman will let the House and the country know what is the amount of the excess of expendi ture r. The CH ANeELLOR "of the EXCHEQUER said, that could be Silly seen hereafter : anti reite rated his former statement, as to the expenditure cot having exceeded the estimate of the last year. ' • Lord COCHRANE gave notice, that he would, on Tuesday next, bring for*ard his motion relative to the judicial proceedings in his case. ARMY RSTIMATRS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the Ceder of the Dal for resuming the ad journed debate; on the question of referring the Army ' Estimates to a Committee of Supply. Mr. BARING thought it would be improper to enter on this discussion, in the absence of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) whose explanations on a variety of points, connected with the peace establishment, were of the utmost importance. He should therefore move “ that the debate be resumed to•morrow." Colonel WOOD was of opinion, that the debate might procted in absence of the Noble Lord, who could give, in,the Committee, every necessary expla nation. If, however, the House were desirous of his attendance, he was certain be would come down, however inconvenient it might be.—(No, no.) Mr. TIERNEY expressed himself in favour of a further adjournment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, if the debate were adjourned, it was probable "they could not proceed with it to-morrow, since a rno tioa of gmat importzuce (Mr. Weatirti% on the State . for that'clay. He attendance of his No every information Itions. ....INE as. Gentleman that the Hon. Member t,e R r Essen Ho .wotil.;fif willingly postpone his motion. He thought the de bate ought to be postponed. Mr. LAW was of opinion that it was inconsistent with the dignity of the House to put off a dbate in consequence of the absence of any individual. Lord MILTON coinctded is this opinion. Mr. ROBINSON obseryed, that if the debate were postponed, it would probably prevent the Mutiny Bill from being passed in time. Lord PALMERSTON s tid, if this question was postponed for several days, a long time would elApse before the Motin'y Bill could be introduced, and then the Bill could not be passed before the oth r Act expired. Mr. TIERNEY thought the Mutiny Bill could be passed in sufficient time, even if a delay of some dais took place. the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had no objection to postpone the hu,iiiess till to-morrow, provided the Member for Else= would consent to postpone his motion. • Lord FOLKSTONE said, he could answer that his Honourable Friend (Mr. Western) would readily do so. Mr. ELLISON wished the business t! go on at once. Mr. BROUGHAM conceived, that after the del y which arose from a long prorogation of P.tiliarnent, the House bad no chance of getting through its business except by going on with its •oiders. He thought it better to enter on the question immedi. ately ; and therefore wished his Hon. Friend to with draw his amendment. Mr, BARING observed, that it was the common courtesy of the House to put off - great questions of this kind when a principal Member was absent.— If the Chancellor of the Exchecper happened to be confined by illness, the principal Secretary of State would not go on with the budget in his absence.— He was, however, if the House wished it, ready to wave his motion. Mr. TIERNEY hoped some friend of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) would inform him that there was no necessity to bring him down to the House while be was indisposed. The Amendment of Mr. BARING was then with drawn, and the question for proceeding to the Order of the Day was put. Mr. LOCKHART supported the Intended Establishinent, chiefly on the ground of the disturbed state of Ireland, in many parts of which there existed a great degree of hostility; and Indeed it existed in places apparently tranquil, as much as in places actually in arms. There must be a power sufficient to enforce obedience to the laws, and disturbances could not be suppressed without the aid of a military force. Mr. LAW thought the present peace insecure, and for that reason he would approve of the proposed peace establishment. He entertained no fear of dan ger from a military establishment, in which the sol diers would bear no mere proportion to the popula tion than one to five hundred ; but he much disliked the military spirit that prevailed among the Members of the Government. After the dreadful commetions however which bad long existed in Europe, there must still be danger. These commotions could not be said to be yet appeased. The sea often continued in a state of agitation long after the storm had ceased.— The very acts done by the Congress of Vienna had left Europe in a most dissatisfied and dangerous si tuation. From his own personal observation.be knew there were many little States in Europe which had enjoyed a large portion of happiness and civil liberty, of which they were now deprived. Dreadful as were the evils which the French had inflicted on the continent of Europe, he knew that they had done a great deal of good in Italy, by removing many pre judices and improving the condition of the lower ' orders of the people. The state of things was now completely reversed in that country. The riwer of Austria had absorbed not only a great patt of the country, but had deprived a great part of the people of their rights and their happiness. He also knew, that in the North of Germany there had existed a great portion of happiness, and a great love of li berty. which were now nearly done away in conse quence of the annexation of the smaller States to great ones—and in consequence of their interests having been never 'attended to at the Congress of Vienna. He looked upon the greater part of Italy, one half of Germany, and the whole of Poland, as having been completely disorganised; and it was impossible to view such a state of things without entertaining some fears and alarms for the consequences. The small States of Italy and of Germany, which a few years ago had been independent, were now rendered wholly subservient to the military views of the great Sovereigns who had seized upon th ( //ear ) These Sovereigns had no idea of governing their States according to the opinions, customs, or preju dices of ,the inhabitants; their sole object was that of increasing their military strength, and acquiring new territorial aggrandisement. He could not with out alarm behold the present overgrown power of Prussia, composed chiefly of States that contem plated their new Government with antipathy and horror; nor could he look at the still greater power of Russia without considerable apprehensions. Her vast population was like that of a new colony which was rising continually, and which would at length burst like a torrent over the fertile countries that sur rounded heie The policy of Russia had been des cribed sixty years ago by Lord Chatham, who com pared it to a great body always moving in an orbit of its own. The character of her Government was that in which the hand of an assassin generally per formed the duty of an assembly of Lord' and Corn- Mons: The Russian Government sought out for talent wherever it could be found ; and its armies made war with unparalleled impulse and barbarity. It was therefore impossible to contemplate such a Power as this without apprehension. The only hope which France had of a resurrection, was th a t o f coalescing with Russia; and what danger might net be leered from such a coalition 1 He saw the greatest danger likely' to arise from the s t ate i n which Europe was now placed: Until the original lines of the par tition of Poland was done away, there wculd be per petual danger in Eutope ‘ ... That :partition was the ! t an din Nees, whet 'the Flousulhoula of the Agriealtarat !Merest) stood Its what same amid be applied,so the could see no necessity for the atte ? By their own shewing, •hotirevet, Ne Friend, who had already given 'lst the House were right, for they Sid. on the subject of oar fureign relstin th. A•t 'that was meant was / Linrd FOLKSTONE assured cause of the corruption of Gm, immoral spirit that produced:he The whole of Euripe 11.)w that it a single spitk tea, the nent would be in al :itoineat tion. It %Lis for this rerson t! tary establishment ten tn,l p t sary. Wken lie -saw that the able to protect Cieltsc among all the Continental Po indispensably necessary to be 'defence. In the ancient Nlyt'lt cellent lessons were to be tai Wisdom was represented as CJ' was a true embiem of the a direct the conduct ut a great to act upon the principles or to we out always to b. in a I meet ail attempts arAch 'h Continent might make pendency. Lord FOLK TONE c.rni the speech deli-. t!red by a Iti,;3 polite (Mr. Peel) 1.1.4 night. veyed melancholy and. diatr , mind, from the truly lament it promulgated upon the state, heir) It shewi:d, indeed, if absolute necessity of int:piton; which were now officially adi country, and into the raises a unties. Tfis - inctiry on ;ht 15,000 men, which were stip in a time of general peace. state of that p.trt of the e!.. ; have been kiriwn to the G iv, scribed the growing sinprobei greet portion ot %%inch was 11 witted to be descending Irnni (dear, hear, liar.) ' of that Goverum:at which, f gest and sign treaties, ;lid al of Parliament until so lice a had presumed to advise the 'a Speech from toe Thrones, in land was not even metal(); though the kingdom was rept. flourishing state ? (Hear, hear, step, it was essential to iuqty this branch of the subject, wl troduced for a particular purl Estimates for the Peace EstaL nion that they were unfit to be side of the House they were deny the necessity of this eat state of our European rcla( bawd lay upon those who prt It had been said on a late ma nourable Gentleman opposft Cie army now kept up were pay would amount to a gre, which the country would at This was the vet y ..rgumri him (Lard F.) to vote agater.l enornms extet:t of our taqi7 the principal evil o;: which view it became the. Cilanceli consider it he could comman. for this expenditure. H.t, on the Property Tax ; but di Tax would be available ? Ii reason to chink that, if parse , would find it unprotiuctive— of !he standing army was di nourable Gentleman (Mr. that the annual grants of P. system, and restrained it fro! perhaps make it legal, but tutional ; for the Constitutit army. Magna Charm, did n, Coke had laid down that nr undo this great work ; arid and Dudley, who were scree! Henry VII. it was found, b: following reign, that the elf peculation were but tif tear the wholesome coutraul of al nage of the army should be this subject as an important found to carry its influence State. It was sail, forsooth the officers would ensure the con duct a but this was an IP the esprit de corla of indica). din ay calculatitars. We fi: front the civil cic:ses in Sac! habits ; for grooms they ha\ tides about London--they as! (Hear, hear!) Itt fact, 'Art growing evil. The levers of attended by dragoons, who private gentlemen's houses, put tlietri . under martial law civil officers performed this , —lt WAS the same iu his RI down to Parliament. The : guards before and after the Prince Regent was enci.mpasse and the streets were on alt .it' Dragoons.— (Hear, hear), perhaps be well intended, ' °armee to the people of EI He (Lord Folkestone) ha, even on pr:vate ccotaaiyns, t; Sentinels were to be seen at other quartets of the Metro Until lately, was never seen. bered, that at the ball at W 1 thinness of Hertford% rout. Ailird Sovereig . ris, a reginn tinned to give eclat to the He had seen such things at would expect them. under at but within the precincts of ought not to be tolerated. morning parade at the Hon prodigious increase of troop: for the last few years, he m finding the town over-rug wu ing them stationed at every e ing with much force on the blished of late years in the ci their continuance the most Constitution. The times were Why not at cram say, the Con (Hor s hear).--The state of: J r GA, d 'he F retch . ft Ir i., it e land? die w a state f o d ir. c ,d it Ol' ow" thAt an i s . waif e: t or eiE.acitite,lits of the 116 ,ini 1r" i .ler soh to re rd than lead " • I.' o ld be ?,) v ets , h . 114 e Ps' nil be in a " 4 off 74Waf hol.i g y, whet t Jo e o r tJund, the u ate 4 • CJllple i , : t y at: Z•4• t. jylr e v.isds% cohic: - •-•• 1 , ffr the eat nat' qs , if w fished, t trues It a state i.r n• 4 11 )c geed e st ai..st our t io; • •ri 4 c tr a 444 fined smireneed h y vere 6 Ll,;ht Hon. G em1. ...1 if ed sea,„ a ieutable ecte. i°l4lll t a m the 1a1!)!Ittled iltor,bt'st.ll: wer e li , et t empires it • ..effh " 11 "1. r▪ • , vern:u.n : * sh I eil ;fir merit if tee i st , tim e s now, Ir o n, • " Mr. Wh m ost h e . 4 Obi of ter :41nnit that t, of n per t o d a , q ui .4 , eve :L: q hilige:iPo u entl i ai r rPwer e 6d.::) i ngirr E ctc t :e.l o Ad( Nt th ettletga:: : :4 lll ‘4‘:‘l. ll l ".ll' , .. 11111r11.: , —6 e a : , ' tbl winch was n ies e o purprese. I n giocieg n. 'd, ti • .• b 1 i 01=1141)e Y's pa to be maint a in e d. At.r . were, indeed, chilleki 4 ry expendituie t• tlations ; but the*: r. -- prop c 14ent ny' Leg; sed such a sh.t.: 11d osite (Mr. Yorke) a , ' 1r ; at present be bunt', ' a Mr merit which swill s ' r i nta,es; M 1 Yaast t cl sy s Stemch h: p a: i :elior of the L nand the Ways an i „ h o f of course, uLialy aleai t did he suppose ye' • 4 t• ME lie (Lot:: E.)lid Id r larsevered theTietsi,. ) ;nu,' s defended by a r. Y's's - L), oa Ile ,; ,• MI E Parliament t'e,al'ith from any abus It x °ll , n i it it did not make it cr: ution supposed no slat' M id not authorise itosel no subsequent Act red in the case of treened during ,dierti,;, bo , by (bat puneslemer• ar efE;rts of power in swag i teinp.‘ra:.y strength • - s ancient lax. 'flap H„ be c,sasidered in ks:Lil ant ct.ne,ielaatien• ► nm cc into every se mth, that a: cbssacea ave the pi opt iety of dente • see ▪ unit ink d•petkia.cei; ..et.y• rime outssqii:d i s flied theas daily scar: . eaciety—they dtfect , have hussars, in their • y associate in military a D r every thing savours d 1 to :s of the Prince keg ho hl •ck up the eivestert c es, and in fact, for the:::, aw ( Hear, Irear.)—ravtif of his duty aty.ut theCo - .;:• - • A s Royal 11 glt res>>toA ' tp he liing came rich ah. at the state cstritge, le npaased with miLtityer.,. Ii sides Reed with e.c.tte ).--Those pis:au:L:lA e :d, but they are estr.:!!- • , ' Englan kr.:'• had had the nroatitic,a s, to see this military pa' , at Somerset-Mane , so‘ netrupolis, whne 3 en. And it m us , be r • t White's, and at the nit, during the vis it '' of draznons Wi• he scene. (11-ar, at St. Petersbing!i , I ran arbitrary G:vernipc.• , a of a free Goverment:o', i, d. Let any nran go 10 of iorsc•Guards, atiti.fsem sh oops he would ther6 be I need not be suspriii4 .c a with soldiers; and at r . ery exhibition. After da the military institutiors • le country, he prediciat iv Ist fatal consffloenct i were changed, it was ; e ennstitutim was gm e , : of Ireland required a' .