Star. — London, England, 1807-02-11 00:00:00

Cloathine of the veteran Battalions, from February, tßc,t, to Fe- bruary, t 877 --Ordered. Mr. MELI.ISH moved for an Account of the Qtartity of Spi rits triandstatired in Scotland fur the laft three years. And alio, the Quantity of Spirits inanufaaured in Great Britain, and int. ported into Ireland s for the Lit three years, ending the nth of January laft. Ago, the Quantity of Spirits manufactured iu ire•' land, and imported into Great Britain, during the fame period -- And alto, the Quantity of Spii its imported into that parr of Great Britain called Scotland—diftit guiftting the Countervailing Duties , payable theme refpeetively— A ll which were agreed to. MAIDSTONE ELECTION. 'Tbe following are the Names of the Gentlemen on the reduced Lift, forming the Committee to try the merits of the Elation and Return for the Borough of Maidftonc. Hon. W. Nl.tule, T. Ewan, Fig T. Fuller. Efq. lion. E. R. Stewart, Hon. T. itobi;lont G. T. Stuart. Efq. Hon. J. Cat, Sir M.A. Foulkes, Joho Pattifon, Ffq. T Godfrey. Efq. John Palmer, Ffq. T. Shelley, Efq. ' W. Loftus, Ffq The SPEA K R acquainted the thirteen Members above return ed. that no nominees having been appointed by the parties, they mil retire and chute two Members not chofen on the Commit tee. In a wort time were returned the names of Sir R. Petit, Bart. and the lion. Weu.astry Pol.', who are the nominees. SIN k CURF PLACES AND PENSInNS. Mr. BIDDULPH rote to make the motion of which he had given notice, relative to Sinecure Places and Penfions, He began by frying, that the motion which he fhould prefer.tly fubmit to the Houfe was brought forward in the year 1797, by an Honourable Frieni of his, and feconded by all thofe with whom he had coincided in opinion. He fincerely believed, that if the Houfe acceded to his motion, many vain. able confequences might arife to the country in the prefent cribs, by applying the attention of the Com mittee to be appointed to the feveral reports of the Committees on the Finances, and making fuch redac tions as had not yet come within the obfervation of thole who had been employed on this fubjea. One of the firft oblations that (truck the public mind, was the immenfe emoluments accruing to Tome perfons who held certain finecure places in the Exchequer. By the A& of 3782, the fees of the Tellers were of fined to them, and they were certainly very great indeed. He then entered into a ftatement of the firft inquiries ii:flitured on this fubjea, which was loon after the Revolution, in the 4th of William and Mary. It was ordered that the Barons of the Exchequer fhould inquire into the origin of fees payable in thofe offices. The ufage of Exchequer autho rifed them to take particular fees ; and the firft in- quiries that were made into them were in confequence of the very great films iffued on this account, which in one year amounted to upwards of a million. In 1702, thofe fees were leffened by agreement, how much he could not pretend to fay, but a very great reduction had then taken place. In 1744, the fupplies for tl.e fervice of the year were upwards of fix mil lions ; and thole for the army in particular. two mil lions; and it was then agreed by the Officers of the Exchequer to Ittfen the fees in confequence of the increafe in the expences of the army ; and if it was fo neceffary at that period, he thought it was much more fo at the prefent moment, when the expences of every department were fo very materially increafed. His motion would embrace Places, Penfions, and various Emoluments ; and, in order to thew why he thought a prefent reduction of thofe neceffary, he would call the attention of the Houfe to the 27th Report of the Finance Committee, in which it was Rated, that there were Places in the Courts of Law alone, amounting to twenty-fix thoufand pounds a year, which they thought proper for reduction, not by violent or arbitrary means, but that they might be gradually reduced in fuch a manner as not to prove immediately injurious to any one. That Com mitttee quoted the opinion of Lord Hale. who re commended that a change might take place in the expences of the Courts of Law, but not fuddenly or violently, and on that recommendation they founded fo much of their Report. In looking to the pro ceedingi which had fince taken place on thofe Re ports, he did not find that any thing had been done, thouglrhe thought there was very great room to make many very confiderable retrenchments and re du6ions, which could not fail to be produCtive of the molt falutary effects by a great faring of the public money. He had no doubt but many offices bad dropt within the laft ten years; and it would be the object of this Committee to enquire whether they had been filled up, and how, and in what manner. The words of Hale were, 4 , if thofe offices were not neceffary, why fhould they be kept up ; and, if me ceffary, why fhould they not be paid out of the fees paid to the Deputies ?" Then followed a lift of offi ces, amounting to 26,1i1001. a year, and many of them filled by perfons who rendered no fervices for the emolument which they received. In the conrfe of the thirty.fix Reports of the Finance Committee, there were many inftances of material reductions that might be made ; but he would (pare the time of the Houfe, and not advert further to them at prefent. If his motion fhould be acceded to, he hoped powers would be given as extenfive as thole which were con fided to the Commiffioners in 1797 and 1798, in which cafe they would embrace and take sit the whole expenditure of the country. He concluded by moving, " That a Committee be appointed to enquire whether any and what ft.rtber Saving may be made by the Reduction of the Fees and other Emoluments of Sinecure Places." The gpetlion being read from the Chair, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rnfe, and expreffed his fatisfaltion that the Honoura ble Gentleman had brought this matter under the cnnfideiation of the Houle. He allowed that nothing could be more defirable at the prefent moment than a (trio regard to ceconomy in the adminiflration of the Finances ; and he was certain there could be none in that Houle, or in the kingdom, who were more fenfible of it, and had the ()Nat more fincerely at heart than his t.lajelly's prefent Minifters, nor were any perfons more defirous of a reduction of nfe lefs or finecure places, In far as fuch reduction could be prudently made. Having made this admiffion, it was but fair he fhould be allowed to (Nerve, that in eve, y country there thank' exit a certain number of rewards to bellow on thole who have merit ed them by their fervices, and thole fhould be within the x cacti of, and confided to the (lifting Go vernment, to give to fuch as they might deem objects deferring remuneration for their labours; which re'ward's and retreats fhould be confined by Government to particular objects, and not (*offered 1,0 run to an extreme or excels. Formerly places were fo numerous in this country, and had reached to filch a trait extent, that they became extremely in jurious to the public fervice ; but it had been the ok ica of Parliament, fi nce the dole of the Arnetica war, to reduce thofe places as much and at @Oar as potlible, for the purpofe of which Commiffioners of Accounts had been appointed by the then Admi nittration, when public clamour was very loud againft them. Future Adminißrations had porfued the fame plan, in one of which a Noble Relation of ' his had a conliderable thane (the Marquis of Lanfdowne). In the year 1796 was appointed the Committee, of which the Speaker himfelf was at the head, for inveaigaiing the Rate of the public finances, and for reducing the amount of the fala ries, fees, and emoluments of the public offices of the country. It was thought that a mode might have been adopted to reduce and aholi(h finecure places, and in their Read to give great pentions during the lives of thole who had held them ; but when it was confidered that thole were fixed and rooted in the Contlitution, and had grown up with it, that mode was relinquithed ; and it was thought necelfary, as the refult of thole inquiries, committees, and reports, to reduce the amount of the emolnments of the large finecure offices to a certain fum, which might be deemed a fair remuneration for the fervices atually performed in the difcharge of the duties of thofe high offices. That mode might not, perhaps, meet the approbation of every individual ; but it was by no means clear, that hecaufe thofe emoluments were not liked by many perfons, they (hould therefore be altoge her abolifhed ; and, in fat, what has been the refult of all thole fucceffive inquiries ? In the fira in- Rance, all finecure places in the Cullom' have been abolitbed ; all finecure places in the Excite, and in the Great Offices of State, have been the fame. All have been put under particular circumtlances and regu lotions, and commutations have taken place with regard to feveral. The Auditor of the Exchequer, the Tellers of the Exchequer, and other high offices, had been limited to a certain fum. There was indeed an exception as to the Collator outwards of the port of London, which was held by the Duke of Man chetter, which was the only one ; and that it had been thought necetrary to leave in its original Rate. And here he could not help obferving, that in effec ting theft regulations, however falutary they might appear, a great Rretch of power had been ufed to wards thofe who had acceptedof thofe commutations; for unqueltionably thofe perfons who were the hol ders of thofe places and offices, ander a grant from the Crown, were as much entlticaf, to them as any man in the kingdom is to the lidded property which he poffeffes under a legal title. His Lordfhip then animadverted to places in reverfion, which he owned he thought were the moll to be deprecated; and which was the molt difficult to make any altera tion in ; yet there had been in a confiderable degree reformed, except in one or two inffances, loch as the Regiller of the Court of Admiralty, held by Lord Arden, with reverfion to Mr. Perceval ; and the Clerk of Parliament, held by an Hon. Memberof that Houfe (Mr. Role) with reverfion to his fon. There was one topic on which the Hon. Gentleman who made this motion had touched,in which he acknowledged much remained to be done. He meant the :7th Report of the Committee of Finance ; many places had been Rated by them to be unneceffary, particularly feveral held by the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Chief Juaice ; but on mature reflation, it had been deem ed not fair to take from them their patronage to thofe places, which was given as a reward and remunera tion for their great labours, and as n provifion for their families, without conliderably increafing their calories. So much he Paid as to places in England. With regard to the public Offices in Ireland, much remained to be done, and many Reps had been taken towards the accomplifhment of this defirable purpofe. A Commiffion was now fitting in Ireland which had been appointed to effect thofe falutary meafures under the aufpices and dirthion of the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir John Newport,) whole indullry and abilities were too well known to doubt of the moll arid and fpeedy inveßigation of all thole matters which it embraced; and the Houle did not want informa tion, hecaufe there was a bill then before the Houfe, brought in by his Right Hon. Friend the Chancel. lor of the Exchequer for Ireland, by which 38 dif- 1 ferent offices were declared to be ufelefs ; and thole who know the induary, talents, and love for econo my, which his Right Honourable Friend, the Right Honourable Gentleman he had alluded to, and the Noble Duke who prefided over the Government of Ireland (Duke of Bedford), might be allured that nothing would be left undone, towards effeaing thofe objerls which were fo very defirable. It had been Paid that places in reverfion were more willingly abo liihed by Miniflers, becaufe they never could have them for themfelves. This he denied ; but there was certainly a difficulty attending the aboliffsingof places in reverfion. He had the fatisfation to fay, that in no one inaance had any fuck grant been made by the prefent Government. He was one of thole who thought much remained to be done in the fuppreffion of finecure offices, of which however none had been created of late years. That abufes had crept in, he was not prepared to deny, becaufe it was impnffible it fhould not be fo in a country where the expenditure ran to fuch an extent. Government were, however, &thous to check this as much as poffible. The pre fent Exchequer had given :nitrations to its Auditors, on all occafions When they obferved provitions made for fecuring fidelity in regulating the Adminiaration of the Revenues, to make a fpecial report, either in the public expenditure, both abroad and at home ; and if the Commiffioners did their duty, of which, from their charaler, there could be no doubt they would, every good confequence might be expeBed from it. He was of opinion, that with the difference of a few words in the motion, it ought to be acceded to, by which the Houle would do credit to Well. and give fatisfation to the country ; and he would not only give his affent to the Committee looking to fuch abufes as did ezift, but to fuch as might exit, for it would be the policy of the Houle and of the coun try, to thew that the molt rigid economy in every department of the finances was abfolutely necelTary. The SPEAKER mentioned to the Noble Lord that Meffeagers from the Houfe of Lords had been wait ing a long time with a meffage ; they were accor dingly called in. The Meffage from the Lords was, that their Lord (hips had palled a Bill for the Abolition of the Afri can Slave Trade, to which they requeßed the concur rence of that Houfe. The CHANCELLOR of the ECXHEQUER then concluded by Moving . , as an amendment, chat the latter words of tbc motion fhould be left out : and, iqesd of them fhould be infetted the following: Titietinfrier what regulations or checks bad been adopted for the controul of the different branches of the expeeliture in Great Britain and Ireland ; rind what further mode there was of dimiaithing ufelefs Wailes and petitions, without detriment to the public fervice." _ _ _ . Mr. WILBERFORCE laid, that he had witnet fed with the fincerelt pleafure the manner in which the motion had been met by the Noble Lord. He had (hewn that he was as great a friend now to every meature for the examination into the expenditure of the public money, as he was when at the other fide of the Houfc. This condo& reflelted the highea honour both on the Noble Lord and on the Admi niffration of which he was a Member, and mug be highly acceptable to the Houfe and to the country. There .vas one expreffion, however, of the Noble Lord, in which he could not perfealy coincide. The Noble Lord appeared to confider the places now ex- Wing with reverence, as belonging to the conftitu don, although he confeired that if he was beginning a frefh fyilent, he would rather that long public fervices (Mould be rewarded by proportionate penfions than by finecure places. It would be very hard to afcertain the proportion of penfions which public men ought to receive for long fervices ; but he was lure that if ever the principle of rewarding them by pen lions fhould prevail, it would be found much more expenfive than the preterit fyffem. There were many intlances of men embarking in the public fervice, not from any low confederations of perfonal emolument, yet whole private fortunes would not permit them to dedicate their lives to the public fervice, without Tome provition being made for them. There were men who had made great factifices, by giving up the bell profeffionai profpeas, in order to devote their time to the public good, and who might reafonably look to one of thole finecure places as a provifion for old age. The fart was, that if a notion had gone abroad that public Cervices were overpaid, it was a very mittaken notion ; for, on the contrary, when the rank of the perfons was confidered to whom thole public offices were ufually entrulled, and alfo the perfons to whom they were affociated, it would be found that, inflead of being overpaid, they were ufually underpaid. He concluded by a warm pane. gyrick on Mr. Pitt, who (hewed by his uniform praaice that it was his with, as far as potlible, to abolifh finecure places. There were between thirty and• forty of thole places, which he had the power to fill up, and which many of this friends repeatedly applied for, and yet lie would not give them away, but left them to be now abolifhed by an Aa of Par liament. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in explanation, Paid, he did not mean to enter into a comparifon of the two anodes of providing for thofe who had rendered public fervices : he only th-ew out the ezpreffion he had made ufe of as a general fpe culative opinion, fuck as he might do if they were making laws for a new Country. Mr. FAWKES (in his maiden fpeech) declared that he could not give a fluent vote upon this quef tion. He was proud to fay, that notwithflanding the many facrifices which the country had already made to defend the neighbouring nations, it Rill pofened ample refources to carry on the war as long as its honour or its interefts fhould require. The people, however, who had made thole great facrifices, had a right to cape& that his Majefty's Minifters fhould do all that was in their power to economize thofe re fources, and to ameliorate their condition. When they had been fo often told that they mutt bring themfelves to facrifice not only the comforts of life, but even part of the nteeffaries of it, to carry on the prefent war, they certainly had a right to taped that no improvident ufe fhould be made of the public money. The Noble Lord appeared to think that it was neceffary that Minifters fhould have the power of granting penfions in order to reward merit. The Parliament, however, had always !hewn itfelf fufficiently liberal in rewarding the gallantry of our Commanders in the army and navy who diflin guifhed themfelves in the fervice of their country, and he made no doubt Parliament would manned an equal dtgree of liberality on every proper occalion that fhould be prefented to it. It was not right, however, that any part of the public money fhould be lavifhed where there was no poffible or plaufible claim upon the public. The people in this refpeB required indemnity for the pan, and fecurity for the future. They expeeed to find in Minifters a revere and rigid economy ; not that niggardly economy which would flint the public fervice, but that falutary economy which would hufband well the refources of the State. They would be happy to find that the long expeOed reformation was now going to take place, and that Minifters were determined not only to preach but to praitife. Mr. CALVERT made a few obfervations in fa vour of the principle of the motion, and Paid it was notorious that, inftead of thole finecure places being always given to reward merit, they were very fre quently given to undeferving perions. Mr. BIDDULPH Paid, that he was ready to agree to the amendment, as it fo nearly refembled his ori ginal motion. The motion, as amended, was then put, and unani spottily agreed to. 'ABOLITION OF THE SLATE TRADE. Lord ligwicK moved, that the Bill this night fent down from the Lords thould be now read for the &Hi time. Mr. HIBBERT could not fuller the Bill to pafs even through that Rage, without calling the attention of the Houfe to it, as one of the moR important meafures that had ever been difeuffed in it. He miffed that Gentlemen would come to the difcufGon of it, with minds unbiAfTed by the proceedings in the other Houfe, or by any feeling that might exit} out of that Houfe. Lord HOWICK agreed that this was a molt im portant meafure, and that it was neceffary to enter upon the difcuffion of it with calmnefs. Whatever might have been the proceedings in the other Houfe, or the feelings out of the Houfe, or the proceedings of any other Houfe of Commons, they would come unfettered and unbiaffed to the difeutlion of the mea. fare ; as the parties intereaed had had fitfficient no., tice of the meafure during its progrefs through the other Houfe, he propofed that the fecond reading fhnuld be fixed for this day fe'nnigbt. General GASCOIGNE complained of the crafty, infidious, and invidious mean( . tbit had been ow ployed to excite a detcllatiog of the Slave -Trade. The Church, the Theatre, avid the Pres, had b een made nfe of againfl it. A learned Divine had (fated from the pulpit, that the country could not nista vidory what} this horrid traffic was continued; and yet the country had never obtained fo many vie nr i es as in the prefent reign. Even the EleCtors had b eta excited at the late General Elation, to WA Upo n pledges from the Candidates that they would vote againft this traffic. Mr. PLUMER begged to fet the Hon. G oleta right, as to the fadt refpeEting the late Eleaion. N o fuck pledge as he mentioned had been demanded of him, and lie had carried on a warm canvafs in hi s county. After a few words from Gen. Gamin e in explanation, and from Mr. T. W. Plomer, theta was read a firft time. Lord HOWICK then moved, that the BM beta," a fecond time this day fe'nnighr, to which an amend. ment was moved by Mr. Hibbert, that it be read a fecond time this day fortnight. After a few obfervations from other Gentl emen. who declared the public opinion in their counties s o be almoft unanimous for the Abolitioa of the Trade, the Bill was ordered to be read a fira time, and was read accordingly. Lord HOWICK, when be recolleeed how macy years the fubjeB had been before the Houfe and the nation, could not fee any grounds for pollponing the fecOnd reading of it to any late day. H e t h oug h t that even thole who were interetted in the continuance of the trade could have no objea in putting off the dilcuffinn. He therefore moved for the (tend read. ing on Tuefday next. Mr. HIBBERT objeled to its being read fo tom as there would not be time given for public meetings to be called, to give their opinions upon the meafare. His only reafon for wishing to pollpone the diktat!e was, that the Honfe might come to it with as much information as could be procured. He thought that it lhould be delayed at leaft for a fortnight. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was extremely defirous that his Noble Friend fhould perfevere in this motion. If the only objea for delay was that Petitions fhould come up from public meetings alcainft the meafute, that reafon did not appear to him fufficient to juflify a moment's delay, efpecially when he confidered the Refolution of both Houfes of Parliament fall year, and that the Bik had already paired the Houfe of Lords, where the perfons interefled in oppofing it had a full opports• nity of being heard. Captain HERBERT wifhed that the fecund reading fhould be delayed. He was decidedly hollik to the Bill, which, inflead of abolilling the Slave Trade, would, as he conceived, abolifh the Brit& Colonies. Mr. ADDINGTON alto wifhed fir fume delay, as this was a new Parliament, and the fubjel was a new one to many of its Members. Mr. L ETHBRIDGE was a friend to the abolitito4 but he thought that the delay of a fortnight was not too much on a quetlion of fuch magnitude. Mr. HAWKINS 'BROWNE was alfo for the abolition, but he thought it would appear bat fair to give Tome further time before the fecond reading. Lord TEMPLE (poke in favour of the papaw ment. Mr. BABINGTON confidered further time totally unnecelTary. • Mr. BARHAM declared hinsfelf friendly to the Bill, but wi(hed the indulgence of further time. Mr. TIERNEY was againft the poßponernent Mr. HERBERT and Mr. BATHURST fpnkefa favour of the poßponement ; Sir JOHN NEWPORT againfl it. Mr. HIBBERT propofed an amendment to Lord Howick's motion, for leaving out the words oast Tuefday,' and inferting Tuefday fennight.' Lord HOWICK fopported his former opinion.— However, to obviate every ground for pretence that it was not his with to give the meafure the fulled and faireß opportnnity of difeuffion, he lhould have no ob• jeition to accede fo far as to poßpone the fecund read. ing to Friday fe'nnight, in order that Counfel might be heard on that day t and that it was to be pofitively under Rood that the debate was to be taken on the motion for going into the Committee on the Toast . following. Mr. 818 BERT then withdrew his amendment. After tome routine bufinefs the Houk adjourned. THE EVENING STAR. LONDON. WEDI4F:DAY, FEBRUARY it. ASS-WIDNICIDAT.--sHoliday at all the Public Offices. PRICE OF STOCKS YESTERDAY. Bank Stock 2181 sty I Imperial 3 per C. 6il 3 p. Ct. Red. Ann. 62H Ditto Annuities 7 isa6ths $ 3 per C. Conf.6til India Stock 183 i 4 per Ditto Bonds, 3s.ss. 1,1180. per Cent. Navy, sictt Each. Bills, par as. dIL Long Aan.l7 12461 Could' for ace. 6sf In the Houle of Commons latl night, it will bt fee', by reference to our debate, that Lord Head Paxxx perfeitly coincided in the principle laid dolls by Mr. BIEIDULTH, that ufelefs and finecure Act% to a certain extent, &mid be abalilled, and the sp. pointment of a Committee for purfuing this [Antal meafure was agreed to. According to Private Letters received from the Dutch coaft, the French armies are recruiting is Holland with an unexampled feverity. Not only is every Dutch foldier hurried off to the armies in Po. land, but the molt oppreffive means are employed is the ealiftment of every one who is of fafficient ftrength or age for military fervice. Thus the Polies fends every one to the army, who is brought before it for the molt trivial breach of the peace ; and to the evident injury of the caufe of Office, even car tal punifhment is fometimes commuted into accrual period of military fervice. The poor are in the fa* manner all relieved by being fent to the armies; and accordingly, notwithftanding the poverty of the country, pot a beggar it to bc Ro l throughout Or of the provhices.