Star. — London, England, 1819-03-17 00:00:00

.\ prayed that it might not be passed into a law.—Or , \ dered to lie op the table. i Mr. LA MBTON moved the second reading &the Bill now petitioned against ; which passed without any opposition. On the Honourable Member's moo= ing that it be committed, Lord LOWTHER, in a few words, opposed the Bill. • WHARTON rose to -give it his decided ne gative. He apologized to the House for thus inter ruptineg the discussion of pUbliC business, by any ob • serrations at this particular hour, on what might be termed a private bill. But he was called upon to dis charge his duty, by assuring the. House that this was , one of the most injurious Acts ever attempted to be 'l 'forted through Parliament. It was a complete re peal of the 49th of his present Nlajcsty, fixing the limits and regulations for the navigation of the river . Were, so far as regarded the Port of,Snnderland.— If passed into a law, which 'he hoped - the House would prevent, all the private property on and near the places mentioned would be at once destroyed. The difference between the two Acts wa4 gre.t in deed—that of the 49th of the King established and protected the landed proprietors, while the new law subverted and overthrew their rights. If-passed into a law the first operation-would be rto pull down those buildings or erections which had,been sanctioned by Parliament, and to transfer the powers now invested in the 'persons appointed br Parliament, - and several tithe confirmed by the decisions Of the Court of King's Bench, to a limited number of Commissioners. The power about to be conferred on these Commissioners was not. only eaormous, but alarming to every landed proprietor interested ; and the very principle of the 311118 in not only highly injurious, but in spirit con trary. to the law of this country. nntszot. ELECTIOX. The SPEAKER now intimated, that the proper person (Mr. Ley) appeared at the Bar, with the re duced list of the names of the Gentlemen appointed to try the merits of the contested Election for Bristol : •H. B. Portman, Esq. H. Dawkins, Esq. G. Powell, Esq. G. R. Dawson, Esq. R. Franco, Esq. W.'Newton, Esq. Dodd, Esq. Lord Mnunteharles, Lord Frederick Campbell, Iron. IL Seymour, Sir Lowry Cole, Lord W. Bentinck, Taylor Money, Esq. T. Phairc, Esq. Sir W. W. Wynne. ViNDERLAND. The discussion was resumed ; when The SPEAKER, on the motion of Mr. LAMBTON, put the question, that this Bill be committed. A Naw MEmnen (who presented the Petition against the Bill) deprecated its passing into a law.— He very earnestly entreated the House to reject it. It was his confirmed belief that it would prove ruin ous to many persons who were interested in the pro sperity of the Port of Sunderland : and, from his duty to his constituents, he was bound to oppose its going into a Committee. Mr. LAMBTON declared, that he had as anxious a regard for the prosperity of the Port of Sunderland • as for that of any other town which he represented in Parliament. The Bill was by no means of the obnoxious description given of it by the Honourable Gendeman who had preceded him ; neither was it so injurious to private property. He believed that. a considerable majority of the landed proprietors were favourable to it.• He thought the imprOvements pro posed would be so beneficial to the L'brt of Sunder land—for which, as a place of great trade, and as an excellent nursery for seamen, he, as well as every man who wished well to the interest and prosperity of his country, must be actuated by similar feelings —that he hoped for the concurrence of the majority of the• House in passing it into a law. The Honour able Member declared himself so fully persuaded of its salutary operations, that were even part of his own property to suffer by the new law, he would cheer fully give it his support, rather than by its rejection to injure the Port of Sunderland. If rightly inform ed, the Learned Gentleman (Mr. Wharton) had pro. raised to advocate the cause of the Petitioners. This might account for -the ardent and energetic opposi- - trait displayed by the Hon. Member. He (Mr. Lamb ton) meant, however, nothing personally offensive, but merely to develope the cause for the zeal and warmth which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman adopted. With regard to the effects of the Bill, he was more and more convinced of its salutaryopera dont, and that it deserved the sanction of the House. Unless some Act of a similar description received the immediate sanction of Parliament, the river itself on which the navigation for Sunderland depended, would be absolutely choked up. Notwithstanding the denunciations of the two Honourable Members, whO insinuated that they would try the question by a division of the House, it was his determination to press for the commitment of the Bill, and to support it in all its various stages. If, however, the Honour able Gentleman (Mr. Wharton), to accommodate the Home, would defer his farther opposition till the • next stage of the Bill, he would then have an ample opportunity to deriver his sentiments at large. The SPEAKER, coincided in opinion, more espe cially when the hour. (six) limited for private business had arrived (looking at the clock), and when public - business was expected to commence.—The Right Ho nourable Gentleman was about to proceed, when Mr. LEY appeared at the Bar, and presented the reduced list of the names of the Gentlemen appoint ed to try the merits of the . • CONTESTED ELECTION FOR WORCESTER, VIE. Roderick bl‘Lcod, Esq. J. Gipps,' Esq. G. V. Fazakerly, Esq. G. Broadhurst, Esq. Thomas Dumhs, Esq. R. Franldand, ES 44. G. It. Phillips, Esq. Lord G.W. Russell, lion. R. Smith, Neville, C. 1 Rhumbold, A. Ilariug, Esq. The SPEAKER, finding that the Committee was rot complete as to the usual numbers, said, that the common mode was fo; the thirteen Gentlemen to retire, and to choose two Gentlemen' of that House who were not now set wing on any Committee, in ad (Edon to those already billotted, to act as nominees: In the course of a few minutes they returned, and reported that they had chosen Lord Viscount AL- Tuoap and T. F. LEWIS, Esq. as their Nominees. SUNDERLAND. • The •diseussion was again resumed; when Mr. WHARTON, in explanation,. felt warm on the supposed insinihttion, againsehlM; and said that .4 11 rejected the invitation of the Hon. Member (for "lidirring his observations) .4 with scorn." In all the ~t ougssca lss, in which he had been engaged in Path*. t. „ tirls.4 discharged his duty with as much free r. 4 g i s much independence as the lOnouraisle , Lantbton), or any other Gentleman al , , AAnd.all•those with whom he had the 104 ac c irinted would d o bia s t h e justice. ittistions which he noW'found it ise- .~~ . AMIN _. . A 4 cessary, in vindication of 00,1=4 lit detest the Hon. Member to tttlait fat to justify dreinsilivations which had fallen Otfn him. . • Mr. LAMBTO4 ht‘ilidieation of what he had stated respecting the Honourable and Learned Gen tlemae (Mr.. Wharton) proOsieg to 'advocate the cause of the Petitioners, said,.that he spoke from the authority of Mr.:NA-erten; a Gentleman well known to the Hon. and Learned.Meniber ; tßat he himself saw Mr. Pembetton, and had accidentally a l conversation;with,hint, who had augured well of the opposition, firm -the supposed pledge of the Hon.' and Learned Gentleman's 'zeal and talents. With regard to the Hon: and Learned Gentleman's exces sive Warmth, he (Mr. Lambton) could not pretend to ,account for the operation of his feelings. He (Mr. Lambton)• could not conceive that he had given any offence, and therefore would neither asjc nor expect forgiveness.- (Hear, hear, hear.)—With regard to the word ‘. scorn," so indecorously used, and so unbe comingly applied, he (Mr. Lambton) would take the liberty of returning it back to the Hon. and Learned Gentlenian, not abating, in the smallest degree, any ,force of compliment.—(kear, hear.) Mr. WHARTON was'about to notice, or perhaps to explain, the sense which he meant to convey by the use of the word scorn," when he was interrupt ed by exclamations from all petts'of the Muse ,f Spoke ! spoke I spoke I" The SPEAKER took this opportunity of tertril noting the conversation by putting the question-- That this 811 be committed.' A division then took place, and the numbers were, Ayes 71—Noes 011—Alsjority fur the Bill L • lit NSTA.PLZ,EI4,CIIOI4I. . The SPEAKER stated, that he he4l a List of the Private Business fixed for this evening, -which, if, every item were gone through, voids( occupy at' least another hour. He therefore submitted to the House, whether, considering the length 4' time which the Ballot had occupied,' it would think proper to postpone what part of the Private Business was not pressing, and to commence the Public Business. He should also suggest the propriety of coming to some decision respecting the issuing of a New Writ for the Borough of Barnstaple. Lord CLIVE then moved that a New Writ for the said Borough be issued this day week.—Agreed to. BOROUGH OF PENRYN. Sir C. BURRELL brought in a Bill to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Borough of Penryn. —Read a first time and ordered to be printed, and read a second time on the 2d of April. The'SPEAKER suggested the propriety, accord ing to various precedents, of ordering notice of the second reading of this Bill to be served on the par ties who were Interested in the matter, or of sending a copy of the Bill to the returning officer of that Bo rough, desiring him to give the said notice. Lord CASTLEREAGH then moved, that a copy of the Bill be served on the Mayor or Returning 1011- I ficer of Penryn, with directions to affix notice of the l day appointed for the second reading of the Bill, on the church doors. Mr. W. WYNNE observed, that in his opinion, the notice by the votes of the House was quite suffi cient in the present case, and that the precedent which was about to be established by the motion of the Noble Lord was not at all necessary. Sir ARTHUR PlGOTTremarked, that the notice by the votes of the House was merely constructive. He was of opinion, that the proceeding which shewed most caution in the teniper of the /louse, would be that which should be, met with the amplest support by the House. Sir C. BURRELL said, that some inconveniencies would undoubtedly attend the personal service of all the burgesses of Penryn.—The motion was agreed to. TREATY WIT!, AURRICA. Lord CASTLEREAGH, by ,crder of his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, presented a copy of the Convention concluded between his Majesty awl the United States of America. His Lordship added, that he should not consider it his duty to ask from the House any opinion respecting the said Treaty ; Ibut that as in a few days it would be necessary to introduce a Bill to give it effect, its provisions might then be made matter of discussion.--The Treaty was ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. JUSTIGN IN INDIA. Mr. HUME, in rising to make the Motion of which be had given notice on this subject, thought he should best consult the wishes of the House, and his own feelings, if he did not enter into the discus sion at present. He should only make one or two observations. He wished the House to know that it was completely in the dark with respect to the mise rable manner in which the administration of justice was carried on in India. In saying this, he did not make an unsupported assertion: the labours of the Committee of 1812, would shew the facts on which he founded his opinion, Civil justice was virtually denied to the bulk of the people in our East Indian territories, on account of the extraordinary expense at which it was to be obtained. Before any indivi dual could commence an action for the recovery of a debt, be was compelled to pay to the - Government a fee of from 50 to one per cent. on its amount, as it was Urger or decreased. There was besides, a heavy stamp duty, add the enormous expense was altoge ther a denial of justice. Another serious groitnd of complaint was, that for years no decision, could be obtained. In the Reports of the Committee to which he had alluded, it *vas even stated that a long life could not suffice to obtain a decision in the Courts in India. Those abuses had increased year after ye,ar, and the situation of the' inhabitants of Bengal was growing worse and smite. He did not lay the blame on any individual, but on the system itself. for the extensive system established by Lord Corn wallis, in 1792, in India, was altered in some parts, and not uniformly adhered to. He then Moved for copies or extracts . of various dispatches from the Court of Directors to the several Governments of India, respecting the administration of justice, both civil and criminal, and the rilice its• that country, from 1810 to the.testa time. • Mr. CANNING. nekikowledged that a difference and a controversy existed; not, however. retpecting the excelletice, but tile adaptation of the system to the habits of the nounert: ide was not disposedlo admit of the high colouring giremby the Honourable. Gentles:al to tba pictiireslbut , havreuld OW* drat be was inclined.* uffietkre.diat. system s-so fstltr'adapied as it. had- heals i4endticlhp tbe 'treat and benevolent main iiihblaffitgiodueed it intoltdiso in approaching whatever proceedegifrom site)) a mans hoigerei, it should lie done with rekkereniind doubt; He *greed With the Horiourablecriiiiteman„thit the "harliinfstration of juitkein-india tiught to be kept thp'iontreittl of 'thi Abihoißies at home,• and the*.besitneans to =be adopted for that -lAPltsi* was the publicity of their proceedings ft em tittle to contended that the Papers moved for 'w so4Olaniinoui, • that( if they were all to he examined, the day or their . cliicussion would never 'arrive. )ie',(Mr. Canning) had therefore selected ' among them'the four which were most satisfactory. And he recommended that which went by the name of the Fifth Report, es 'conveying the most complete abstract of all the information received in this country, and as affording sufficient light to employ the utmost research and attention of the House till the time when the discussion on the subject should take place. Lord MORPETII thanked the Hon6urable Mover for having introduced such a subject to the House. He was decidedly of opinion, that whatever expenses we might throw on the natives—whatever means we might adopt to crush and range Indian States under our dominion—the best security for our empire was a strict administration of justice. Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHS contended, that previous to the regulations introduced by Lord Corn wallis, there were no regular Courts in India. In reality, there was no justice. That great man had consulted him at the time on the system which he proposed to establish, and which had his (Sir Wil ' Ham's) unqualified concurrence. Though its intro duction had been attended with great difficulties, it had proceeded with more rapidity than could haie been reasonably expected. It had increased the at tachment of the people,to our Government, and in duced multitudes to emigrate into our territories from other States. He did not deny that it might contain great defects ;but it had done, and continued to produce much good. The system of Police was that which required most consideration and amend ment. He had had an opportunity of ascertaining how wretched it was in the city of Calcutta—a. city which contained a population of between 750,000 and 800,000 inhabitants—of all nations, of all creeds, and all employments. All his efforts to improve it, though ably assisted, has proved vain. In some in stances, Magistrates had private gaols of their own, where they kept individuals for months, before they even ascertained the nature of the charges against them. He then quoted several cases where gross abuses of this kind had prevailed, and pressed the importance of the subject on the consideration of the House. Mr. HUME stated that the Committee of 1812 had' reported that it often happened that months elapsed before an individual was brought up for hear ing; that during that time, he will confined in a crowded prison, where death frequently occurred, before it was ascertained Whether there was any real charge against him. He then complained that the whole system of Bengal Police was conducted by a set of regu lar spies in the employment of the Govern ment. These were generally heads of robbers, who had been allowed to turn King's evidence, and to whom incautious Magistrates entrusted the execution of their warrants. With respect to the want of eco nomy in the Judicial department, it might be ascer tained from this fact, that whereas the whole revenue of India was £17,000,000, the expense of the judi cial and police establishment amounted annually to £1,578,000, or nearly one-eleventh of the revenue. Mr. HUTCHINSON wished to impress on the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and his Majesty's Ministers, the necessity of taking measures to improve the wretched system of police. to which were sub jected not less than the sixty millions of inhabitants who belonged to our Indian empire. Mr. CANNIgG had already explained the bent of his mind on the subject. It was one on which he had meditated day and night, and yet he took no shame to himself for not being able to express a more decided opinion. As to the whole system of the Po lice it had been amended under Sir Edward East, and its evils were now done away. After a few words from Sir WM. BURROUGHS, the motion was agreed to. Mr. HUME then moved for Accounts of the ex pense of the Police and Judicial Establishment, in four districts of India, from 1792 to 1818, or later, if possible • and for Accounts of Judicial Charges in the three Presidencies of Bengal. Fort &George, and Bombay, froth 1810 to the present time.—Agreed to. INSOLVENT DEBTORS ACT. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL took an historical view of the state of the laws respecting Debtors, pre vious to the passing of the Insolvent IDebtors, Act in 1813. It was then found necessary to resort from time to time to partial measures. The existing law would expire in the present Session, and if not renewed with such alterations as the necessity of the case might re quire, the country'would be reduced to the former practice, and the Debtor might be kept in ,prison for life, unless it pleased the Creditir to allow him to be liberated. Dining the existence of the present law, two Committees had been appointed to examine, with the view of amending it , and an Act had F assed,l giving to the Judge of - the Insolvent Debtors Court greater power to remand Debtors, if not satisfied with the honesty of their conduct. All agreed that the] principle of the law' was right, but that it wanted correction in some of its provisions. Most of the Petitions presented to the'House expressed that opi nion, and on these grounds it appeared necessary to appoint a Committee to' consider the law as it stood, 'as well as the Petitions presented against it. There seas no subject &4er for the attention ofthe House than the question, whether there should not b e some l aw o f ,tliks sort fOptaiog part Of.the judicial system of the land ? Instead of - the temporary measures to whiCh Parlia ment.had - beets obliged to hive recourse for the last century, and Whioh, in thehnter part of the present reign, had been requiodiseciften isery two years, it were:bcuer that ',*DetstOt and c reditor should •know on what seems tiny stood towards, each other. With respect to the individual at the head, and those engaged iii the seritice of tPe insolvent Debtors' C.oun w during the exiinden of thi.4t, no one cpuld be happier than thep.would.be ..having.tbele con duct, thoroughly • investigated. • He - (thedittegney- G . reralj beretestimony to tht ability and. indentry bUslnfs - sot,t4n.o.bOrt 1 444 * *eii4. 511 . ducted. All that it was possible talae:douischad 'been atifta.; He;.whised'Abe-whele , :gonteir tiis be takeo,intqlosOderation, „ and iftoiild 4 ccirtsfißivtlyt de eisicifi it gred !Which was the only countirthat had no po rm .,,, legislatizn on that important subjeet.'kle then sto That a Select Committee be appointed to take r consideration the state of th e Law respectinc,:ti, discharge of Insolvent Debtors, and the variou s Act ," passed in the 53d, 54th, and 56th years of hi s jesty, to remedy the same, with the effects produced thereby, and to report their obseriatintti therfts, t on the best means of rendering the said Acts eff - - Mr. Alderman WAITHM AN contended, th a t withstanding the two attempt s ma d e s i nce the pa!'sj:' of the Act, to amend an d a l ter i t, the €:;e7,4,' which it created continued to exist. • lie ccree-e, that a subject more important, as it affected cite rals of the people and public credit, could not (t cupy the attention of the House.' He-agreed the Honourable and Learned Gentleman t4ar • • law should be passed to give securify'to cre(Pro and at the same time protect unfortunate Lie,. ! * c : That was the object of all the Petitioiirthat had b e presented. Ile then drew a comparison hetaar i present Act and Commissions of Bankrupt,-; • f X thought the last far preferable to the former, a s t h enabled those who had entrusted their prope r t r any individual,:to arrest him in the midst of a ca. of extravagance, before he had was: :d it all awa, He had never seen an instance in which subste; justice had not been obtained under Commissier.C. Bankruptcy, if the Assignees had done their dam, He complained that under the Insolvent Deb . ..: Act, a debtor might go into the Rules of the Ern: . or the Fleet, with £lO,OOO of his creditors' proper.: who had no means of recovering a farthing. Ii then mentioned several instances of such cc:11;:c. and contended that if there were prisoners who h a remained twenty and thirty years in confinement, • was not in consequence of cruelty on the part their creditors, but because they did not theme give up their property to take the benefit of the Ar He maintained that the celsio bonortm was delusi • as the Court had no power to inquire into the Wa in which the debtor had spent his property, and ascertain whether he gave up the whole of it. the Honourable and Learned Gentleman would . 'tend the provisions of the Lords' Act, and am the Bankrupt Laws, there would be no necessity a measure like the present. Mr. ABERCROMBIE was of opinion, that Honourable and Learned Friend had taken the I course in wishing to refer to a Committee the cm deration of the existing law, the alterations which might undergo, and the petitions praying for its rcpe As a Commissioner of Bankrupts himself; he co dieted the assertion of the Honourable Alderma that justice could be done in every case. How ccu the Honourable Alderman also state that it was fault of the Act of Parliament if a debtor went it: the Rules of a Prison with the property of his C: ditor ? If he had said that he could take the bate of the Act, and still retain that property, tLea h might have established a case against the law ; what he had said was totally inapplicable. The nourable Alder Man had in fact only complained, under the present Act it was not practicable to kec . the debtor in prison a longer time. AS to the boxontm, instead of being injurious, it was the fai7:l: principle on which it was possible to act, ;t7d Sce:- land had grown into prosperity and wealth by it. After a few words from kr. Fittest and Mr. WAITHNIAN, the motion was agreed to, and theft!' lowing Committee appointed : The .Ittorney-General, Lord Althorp, Sir M. W. Fidler, Mr. Alderman Waldman, Mr. Abercromby, Mr. 31artin, W. Courtenay, Mr. Brougham, Mr. Alderman Wood, Mr. CI. craft, Mr. Ilart Davis, General Gascoigne, Sir Robert Mr. George Lamb, Mr. Fazakerley, and Mr. Lsmbton. .. - ... ,~~ ... -a . -- • QUALIFICATION OF NIEMRFRE. Sir G. WARRENDER said, by the Act of gate' Anne, 9th, ch. 5. it was enacted, that to enable person to sit for an English County, he should pos sess 6001. a-year ; and to sit fer a City or Bare 300/. a-year, in land in England er . Wales. • Snts the Union wifh Ireland, property in that Count!) was taken as a qualification for Members in the'sanx manner as property in England, so that now the mil? part of the United Kingdom, in which property W3' not admitted as a qualification for representing Et& lish Counties and Boroughs, was Scotland. his L. - ject was to extend to property in that country tht same privilege. His object was not to interfere via t the general law respecting qualifications, which WA: deemed by some to be capable of amendment, but , merely to correct an anomaly, viz. by making pro petty in. Scotland available as a qualification tot Members to represent English Counties or Boroughs. He moved for leave to bring in a Bill " further to regulate the Qualification of Members serving is the United Parliament." _ _ Mr. BROUGII,VM said, that though he did sot mean to dissent from the principle of the Bill, he should suggest one obvious pri*a Ade objection. with which, no doubt, the Honourable Mover wool,' be met, but which ,it lay in his power to obviate. There was an obvious reason why, as the law at pit. sent stood, landed property in Ireland was receivabit at a qualification for Members to represent places is _England. .Between England and Ireland there w.ii a reciprocity; not only did land in Ireland qualify its possessors to represent 'places in England, but pro perty in England qualified the proprietors to repre sent places in Ireland. But if the measure now pt" posed were carried in the ,shape in which the lica Member brought it forward, the possessor of pr. petty in Scotland wauld be qualified to represent as 'English County, while the,i,ossessor of prnpertY England would not be qualified to represent a Sect; Shire—(hear, hear!) Sir GEORGE WARRENDEII said, he did nc : overlook the objection stated by the Honourable a u- J.earned Gentleman (Mr. I.lrougham);.but the qua: fication was required in Scotland under a particulx law, by which every Representative of a Shire so to be an enrolled Freeholder.: To-represent a SW Burgh, to qualification whatever was requisite. k" representing particular plates-in England. (he. L. 21 understood)—some Boivuglis.in Yorkshire, for i 5 stance, and the Cinque - Ports-aparticular qualifies' Lions were 110C#111ary.—Itliei .9ff " lioi") The qualk fication necessary to represent a Scots County might be purdiasedSor 4 small .sum.;fne hoped at leis' tic objection would•belnado trt iheiringing in his K. .4- Mamma tinder tbzitallere mica, whether x . .! 1 .clituse. - wils.ti) be.introduced to -levet 'test the quo' tion, whether the eictt stns uftiCDiS Peas wftc 1T1. 4 ° iiiird.toAsiti4.i :: e.,--•-• • - t •- • • . !--,. -.-- • ! fsit-mottGE-vikfutENDmit'isesit* 410 c _ b • intezio ft A Ott /ea ' ''. R oC eitiCtiOn of coni mittel town as : ry , t o ti, S ontot itt4 for the (debar s , the gr. gin .;tas himhl """-- y ha d ad o stated hv Niemb Tif eetor s t t a s of em .4100 anc o f a Scot WASTCferr re ground f a vourable actors acte lals and a n unnio s i n bad to L o rd CA round that ent was in Slr. BPN 'oly a cliff IT a de r ith nhaodol, begun Lord er--(H he out Ivass or it COUI any indi 'ial powt ted his the Con Visconni 'the Sitt m tO be ct of Pai raised c Mr. S. 1 cut of a fi ry plain *7,1-.d as tl Mr. TII brir.ging I was too n flaclou sl: ,der I,lle ac sr.:ch bus to with p un to harass reeding i taken to .such a de writing u guns.' —1 advice w could Lord I result frc bring be the judi Commits tage of t Mr. W 4=14 be the otter n hip ar. dope FOVO ~.-.,