Star. — London, England, 1809-02-08 00:00:00

v io l of the Committee, and consequently with drew the qliest;on ; but having one or two other ques tions to ask, desired that the witness should be called : main. Q. (by M r . 'WARDLE) Does the witness recollect a hi:: which had been due from Mrs. Clarke to Mr. ruv l, ?—A. There had been a bill due from Mrs. Cidrke to Pugh, which I had paid by Mrs. Clarke's des i re ,Q. Did you pay it on the account of Mrs. Clarke ?—A. I did. 'ae witness then withdrew, and Mr. Pierce was called in and examined by Mr. WARBLE. Q. Is your name Pierce ?A. It is. —Q. Who in truducel you to Mrs Clarke ? A. The Honourable M r . Tufton (as we understood his answer).—Q. Did with Mrs. Clarke in Gloucester-place, as her you live w butler, while she was under the protection of his Knya l Highness the Duke of York? A. I did.— Q. D o you recollect, that in the year 1805, his Royal Highness the Duke of York went to Weymouth, and m ri . Clarke to Worthing ?A. I do.—Q. Do you recollect one Lodowick, a servant, who used to at tend the Duke of York at Gloucester-place ? I do. Q. D o you recollect his having been ordered by the. Duke of York, on a particular evening in that year, to take out a Bank note, and get it exchanged A. I do not ,—Q. Do you recollect any servant having b e en ordered by the Duke of York to take out a Bank note to be exchanged ? A. I recollect the house keeper, Mrs. Taylor, who was a favourite, coming down, and giving a note to Lodowick to get chang ed, when Lodowick went out, and on his return roe change to Mrs. Taylor, the favourite.— Arend to the question. Do you recollect that any other servant had been ordered by the Duke o f York to get the note changed ? A. No.— Q. Da you recollect Lodowick having got the note exchanged ? A. I do.—Q. Do you recollect by whose order ? A. Ido : by the housekeeper's order. .Q. Do you know the amount of the note ? A. I do , iot.—Q. Did you hear the housekeeper give the order ? A. I did.—Q. Do you recollect in what lords the order was given ? A. I do not recollect particularly ; but the housekeeper gave the note to Lodowick, and he went and returned with the change to !wt.—Q. Are you positive that the note was not gi•:en at night, and the change brought back in the morning ? A. lam positive. Q. (by Mr. BRAND) Do you recollect whether the Duke was in Mrs. Clarke's house at the time the note was given to Lodowick to get changed ? A. He was stairs. Q. (by Mr. WARDLE) What time in the morning was it when the note was given to Lodowick ? A. About eight o'clock.—Q. Was the Duke of York up then ? A. lam not certain that his Royal Highness WAS up. Q. by Sir J. GRAHAM.—How long have you lived with Mrs. Clarke in Gloucester-place ? A. Fifteen months.—Q. State-whether any, or what servants, came with his Royal Highness to Gloucester-place during that time ? A. Lodowick only.—Q. Can you state, that no other servant used to go there with his Royal Highness ? A. I never saw any other'servant come to the house but Lodowick. Q. by Mr. LITTLETON.—Can yon state in what year or mouth this transaction happened ? A.-About three ye ;n ago.—Q. Do you know what was the amount of the note? A. No.--Q. Do you think it was the month of January, 1806 ? A No: it was in the month of July or August, 1805. The weather was then very hot. It was about the time when Mrs. Clarke went to Worthing. Q. by a Member.—How long was it before Mrs. Clarke went to Worthing ; was it about two or three flays before ? A. Ido not recollect exactly ; it was but a short time before.—Q. Was it more than three d is ?—A. I can't recollect exactly ; but it was be fore Mrs. Clarke went to Worthing. Q. by Mr. LITTLETON. Is the note, which was given to Lodowick, the only note which you recollect to have been given to be exchanged ? A. It is the only note I recollect.—Q, Did Mrs. Clarke go to Worthing on the same day on which the Commander in Chief left town. Did they both leave town on the saw day ? A. His Royal Highness, I think, left town at night, and Mrs. Clarke went off to Worthing, about ten or eleven o'clock next day.—Q. (Colonel Wool)). Was it the same morning, or rather the morning of the day on which his Royal Highness kit town, that the note had been given to Lodowick to get exchanged ? A. It was some morning before. rile witness was then ordered to withdraw, and Capt. Ht7xi.Ev SANDEN was called in, and examined by Mr. WARDLE. Q. What interest had you in Colonel French's levy ? A. I was concerned with him in the levy.— Q. in what way, and to what extent were you con t!r:led with him in that levy ? A. The letters of :mice had been granted to both Colonel French, and ThYstif•--Q. Do you know Mrs. Clarke ? A. I do. Did you or Colonel French ever apply to Mrs. lo use her interest with the Commander in in order to have the levy expedited ? A. In the first illst.ince they had been informed that an applica tion miAt he made to a person who had great inter eq with a leading person in the Government ; but they did not then know that Mrs. Clarke was the per son.—Q. When did you discover that Mrs. Clarke was the person ? A. I did net discover that till we had the letters of service. —Q. What passed between you and the person whom you afterwards knew to be iff-% Clarke, before you knew her to be Mrs. Clarke? It. I do not understand the question. Tile question was read again, when Sir A. PIGOTT objected to the question, because any conversation which might have passed between the witness and a person whmsa he did not know at the time, could not certainly be admitted as evidence on a charge brought against the Duke of York. Mr. WARDLE was not disposed to press this quee.ion, though he did understand that as the wit ness afterw-crds knew the person to be Mrs. Clarke, any thing that had passed between him and her on the !. , abject of the levy, would be evidence applicable to the charge under consideration. , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had understood the witness to have stated, that he had son e conversation with another person, in IV first instan ce , an d not w i t h M r s. Clarke. He was cpinion that the question should be put however 4:Tele...ant, as he did not wish any impediment to be tlrow n in the way of this inquiry. Mr. BERESFORD adverting (amidst cries of or de orderd to the circumstance of the publication of the Proceedings on this subject in the public pans, . ~ a Pi C dt. C tr b t • L • ll t. r I. I. IA co it 4 expressed a wish, that the Honourable Gentlemen. formed me that he was to give. her 500.gninras.—.Q. would not put any questions from whiCh deductions What further? A. I understand he was to give her 500 might arise out of the answers.—(Loud laughing 1) guineas.. -..Q. Do you mean to say that was .all s the The question was then waved by Mr. WARDLE, agreement made with Mrs. Clarke upon the subject ? who on the witness being called in again, continued A. I will not tile upon . me to say what Colonel French the examination. might have agreed up on wid i Mrs. Clarke. That tile Q.Who gave you the i n fo r m at i on res p ect i ng t h e per- only thing I know.—Q. Did you enter into any agl ee= son who had the interest to promote your application ? . meet with Mrs. Clarke ?A. No.—Q. Are you of . Who took you first to Mrs. Clarke ? A. Mr. Cock- your own knowledge aware of any other bargain with ayne, my attorney, told me, as I was a military man, ; M rs . Cl ar k e , but with respect to the 500 guineas ? A. that if I had any thing to do a t th e W ar -Offi ce , or in I was not, before Colonel French went to Ireland. Pre the Office of the Commande r i n Chief, he - would re- vious to his departure, he desired me, if Mrs. Clarke commend me to a person who had interest to serve .should want money, to advance it to her.—Q. To me.—Q. Did he introduce you then.to Mrs. Clarke ? Vhat amount ?A. As far as five, six, or seven hun- A. He introduced me to her agent.—Q. Who was fired pounds.—Q. Do you recollect any application her agent ? Mr. Corti, the music-master. having been made to Mrs. Clarke for an alteration of The witness was then ordered to withdraw, when the original letters of service ?A. There were various Sir GEORGE HILL wished the Hon. Gentle- • alterations in the original letters. The recruiting man to confine his course of examination to points bounty had been raised to 19 guineas. We recruited immediately connected with the subject of the charges at first at thirteen guineas bounty, and as we thought before the Committee. This circuit through Mrs. ourselves entitled to the addition, we applied to Mrs. Clarke, Mr. Cockayne, Mr. Corti, or any - other third Clarke, that we might get the enlargement, as we person, ought not to be admitted, because such a could get no men at thirteen guineas, whilst the line chain of evidence could not possibly lead to any direct, was recruited at nineteen guineas. —Q. Y Q U did not fair, or reasonable result. get the nineteen guineas till you applied to Mrs. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Clarke ? A. All the recruiting parties were in thought that the Honourable Baronet %yds rather pre- the same situation, and we conceived we had a right mature in the observation which he had made on the to the increase. There had been an order from Go. nature and tendency of the examination pursued by; vernment, that every recruiting party should have the Honourable Gentleman. If the evidence were the 19 guineas bounty, and as men could not be got to be at a close, there might have been some ground at 13 whilst that was the case, we applied to have for the observation ; but as the evidence was only at our bounty raised also.—Q. To whom did you ap. its commencement, and it would be necessary to , ply ? A. To the Commander in Chief, of course.— trace it through a great number of persons, he was i 2: Did you not apply to Mrs. Clarke ? A. There of opinion, that the Honourable Gentleman should i• was ne occasion for it.—Q. Did zon ever apply to be permitted to proceed with the examination. in his Mrs. Clarke upon any other occasion ? A. Relative own way. I to the Levy.—Q. As to the boys ? A. You bring to Witness was again called in, and examined by Mr. : my recollection the circumstance of the - boys ; we WA RDLE. . . were allowed ten boys in every hundred men. It Q. Did Mr. Corti introduce you to Mrs. Clarke, I will appear by the letters of service better than I can or was it through him you had an interview with state it.—Q. Do you mean to state, that no altera- Mrs. Clark ? A. Ido not recollect.—Q. When had j tion was made nor applied for relative to boys ? A. you the first interview with Mrs. Clarke ? A. I saw i Not after the letters of service had been granted.— Mrs. Clarke a long time ago ; it may be about a month I Q. Wh a t a l tera ti on was ma d e re l at i ve to b oys i n after the letter of service - had been granted.—Q. Can I the letters of service ?A. We were allowed ten you recollect what passed at that interview ? A. No- I boys in every hundred men. I cannot take upon me thing particular passed; every thing had been pre- : to say what alteration may have taken place on that viously settled and arranged.--Q. For what purpose, . head, as the whole bit :iness ., had been finished and then, had you the interview with Mrs. Clarke, if every i settled by Col. French.—Q. Do you recollect ever thing had been arranged before ? A. Colonel French i having waited on the Commander in Chief, in con wished me to see the person to whom we had been I sequence of any commission or message sent by Mrs. referred, and when I went to Gloucester-place, to my I Clarke to Lyon's-Inn ?A.I do not recolect....2. surprize I found it was a female. [4 laugh.]— IDo you know Mr. Dowler ?A. I once' saw him at Q. Had you seen Mrs. Clarke before ? A. Most] Mrs. Clatke's.—Q. Do you recollect what passed ? assuredly.—Q. When ? A. I do not know.—Q. Was I A. Not a word.—Q. Did Dowler call on you at it before the letters of service had been granted ?A. I Lyons'-Inn ?A. Never. I think not. The letters of service had been issued I Q. Did you ever, at any time, wait on the Com before. —Q. Then do you know when Colonel French mander in Chief with a message from Mrs. Clarke ? I saw Mrs. Clarke ? A. No ; Colonel French was going A. I once waited On the Commander in Chief with to Ireland.—Q. Do you recollect what passed when, Colonel French, to thank him for having granted the you saw Mrs. Clarke ?A. I really do not recollect.—' levy:—Q. What sum or sums were given to Mrs. Clarke Q. Was the subject of the levy mentioned ? A. No ; i by you, or to your knowledge by any other, in com -- e- I do not know.—Q. Do you recollect when Colonel quence of this levy ? A. At various times, I paid to French mentioned or when you mentioned the levy Mrs. Clarke 8001. it might have been 8501. but not to Mrs. Clarke ? A. No.—Q. Does he of his own more.—Q.D2yourecollectanycheck uponaMr.Grant knowledge know that Colonel French did not mention in favour pilr. Corti, which was given on account the levy to Mrs. Clarke at the interview ?A. I can't say. of thiglevy ? A. Perfectly. It was not a check, but a Nothing material had been introduced.—Q. When did draft at two tuOnths,#hd not given on account of the you first speak to Mrs. Clarke upon the subject of the i levy, but to Mr. Corri, asagent toMis. Clarke with Mr. levy? A. I really do not ltittlr. The business haat been i Cockayne.—Q.. Do you recollect any thing of a loan settled between Colonel French and Mrs. Clarke.—Q. I of .50001 that was to be advanced by Colonel French State the terms upon which the business had been ;to the Commander in Chief ? A. I never knew Colo settled between Colonel French and Mrs. Clarke ? I nel French to have had 5001. in his life ; and A. Ido not know. The terms had been settled be- 1 therefore do not know how he could advance 50001 tween Colonel French and Mrs. Clarke.—Q. What 'On our account with our agent, we are in arrear passed between you and Colonel French upon the 1 3000 i. on account of this levy.—Q. Did you not hear subject ? A. Of course we wished to get the levy, I any mention of this advance of 50001. by Colonel and to obtain the letters of service. --Q. What means I French ? A. Most assuredly not.—Q. You stated did you take to get the point carried, so as to pro- I that :,00 guineas were first advanced, and afterwards cure the letters of service through Mrs. Clarke ? A. ' 8501. can you state that the payment of this b5Ol. I understood from Colonel French, that he had en- arose out of any particular agreement of so mach gaged to give Mrs. Clarke a certain sum .of money. per man, or in what proportion it was to be paid ? —Q. What passed between you and Colonel French A. The agreement was general. If the levy should I upon this subject ?---- succeed, we were to pay Mrs. Clarke a couple Sir ARTHUR P 1 GOTT objected to the question, !of thousand pounds. There was no. explicit agree and wished the Honourable Gentleman to shew how i meat, but that was understood. The levy has failed, 1 and Mrs. Clarke is the only one that has gained by any conversation, which had taken place between the witness and Colonel French, could be evidence against i it.—Q. How was Mrs. Clarke paid ? A. Generally the Duke of York. in Bank notes.—Q. Did she receive the money in Mr. BERESFORD, as the question had been large sums at a time ? A. Two hundred pounds asked, wished it to be answered. was the largest stilt I believe she received at any one The ATTORNEY GENERAL had not wished time.—Q. I wish you to call to your recollection, or t to interrupt the examination or the course of evi- to endeavour to recollect, whether Mr. Dswler did dence pursued by the Honourable Gentleman ; but I not call upon you at Lyons Inn from Mrs. Clarke, as an objection had been taken by his Learned and whether 'he did not say to him, that he owed Friend, he must say, that the evidence was irrelevant. her no money, and that he had no money for her ? Lord FOLKSTONE; notwithstanding the legal A. No, Sir, he never called upon me with that mes opinion just pronounced, thought that any con-rersa- 1 sage.—Q..Dil Colonel French never state to you the Lion between the witness and Colknel French, relative I exact original bargain' he made with Mrs. Clarke ? to the means of obtaining two letters of service,' A. I understood that 500 guineas were first to be ought to be received as evidence upon the charge paid to her, that 2001. were to be given to Mr. Corn, against the Duke of York. and that if the levy succeeded, Mrs. Clark was to The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. ob. have 20001. served, that the Noble Lord's argument did not ap. - Q.d (by Mr. Lirrz.zrox.) I wish to know what . asse ply to the case, because putting Mrs. Clarke out of between you and Mr. Coni ? A. He was to P have for his introduction to Mrs. Clarke ; no the question, and supposing the witness and Colonel French to have conversed upon what passed between thing more.—Q. Did that pass before the letters of the Duke of York and Colonel French , his statement service ?A. The £2OO were paid after.—Q. Did witness only apply to Mr. Corn for an introduction to of such conversation would not be evidence. If they Mrs. Clarke, without stating what your object was ? Were to have what passed between Col. French and the Duke of York, they must have Col. French him - .i A. We certainly did not inform Mr. Corn, the music self. He had not objected to the course of his ex - mast! r, what we meant to do with Mrs. Clarke. I am i n ation, because the Hon. Gentleman having had I recollect that Mr. Cockayne knew of our object when n otice not to proceed to the charge respecting Col. I he mentioned Mr. Corti to us, but Mr. Corn knew French's levy without Col. French, ought to have i nothing of_ it . — Q. W. I know not. hat passed between Mr. Cockayne been sufficiently prepared, when he did enter on it, and Mr. Corn ? A. to go through with it. Besides , it would have been Q. (by a Member.) How often had you seen Mrs. unpleasant to the house, that the Hon. Member , Cl.. Ab arke. out fifty times.—Q. Was any direct applica in the course he was pursuing. duri_gn the whole negotiation of the levy ? should, under such circumstances, have been stopped , ' ll 1 tion made to the Commander in Chief on the sub- Mr.l jest of the levy ? A. From Colonel French and my- YORKE agreed with his Right Hon. Friend, , mu; of course, in a regular manner.—Q. Was it that the course of the examination ought not to be in- • then subsequent to this application to the Corn. terrupted, because it was desirable that the matter : mander in Chief that you applied to Mrs. Clarke ? A. ought to be sifted to the bottom. Though he did I cannot say : Colonel French had raised two levies not think that would rest with the lion. Gen- . _ _ tleman, yet he was convinced there was something foul in the transaction, and that it would be found that bribes had, been given to witnesses on this sub- ject. It was.the duty of the house to enquire into the matter, to the bottom. ... • The examination den proceeded. Q. by Mr.WAunt.s. What passed between you and ttled every this 4 with /dra Colonel French on that subject ? A. : H e tol d me when I saw him, that be had se this alai A. Yews be itt- Ciarke.—Q. Do ion bow • Chief ? A. It Was not refused ;we never hal a re fusal. We had no reason to think it would be refused. We had done nothing improper; an 3 why should our application be refused?—Q. Had you rea son to think it would be refused ? A. I ask why? Q. I ask, if he thought it would not be refused, ..why be, made application to any person beside the Commander in Chief; or why he had promised any sum of money ? A. To facilitate the letters of service when we should apply. Q. (Sir THOMAS TURTON.) How long was the ri 0 0 guineas promised before the letters of service were granted ? A. Near two months or ten weeks after the first proposal.—Q. What reason had you to ad vance the 7or 8001 ? A. No particular reason. We thought it better to give the sum.—Q. Had you any, and what reason to believe that your application would be expedited by Mrs. Clarke ? A. My own private opinion was that it would not. She appeared to me to have very little influence with the Commander in Chief. Q. Had you any reason to 'believe that thcDuke of York was privy to the payment of the money to Mrs. Clarke ? A. N.)ne in the world ; I never could have had any idea of it.—Q. What grounds had you to suppose that the influence of Mrs. Clarke was very small? A. From the length of time that passed in obtaining the letters of service. Q. (Mr. YORKE) Had you any conversation with Mr. Cockayne upon the subject ? A. The letters of service ! Oh no, he was barely to introduce us to the person who had the interest with those in power, to forward our application.—Q. By whom was you. informal respecting this i person who bad influence with a great personage ? A. By Mr. Cockayne and Mr. Corri.—Q. What conversation had you with Mr. CO3 Ti with reference to this transaction? A. We applied to him in consequence of his having said to Mr ,Cock. ayne, that if he knew any military man, who had busi ness at the War-Office, or in the Office of the Com mander in Chief, he could introduce him to a person who had great interest to promote his application.---Q. What conversation had you with Corti or Cockayne upon this subject ? A. Nothing mere than I say. t saw Corti but once or twice.--Q. Did the proposal come from you to Corri, or from Corti to you ? A. ; Mr. Corti had made his proposition to Mr. Cockayne, who mentioned it to me, and then I had an interview with Mr. Corti.—Q. Then you had an interview with Mr. Cockayne ? A Yes, he introduced me to Mr. Corri.—Q. What part did Cockayne take in the conversation ? A. Barely to make the introduction. Q." Did you go to seek Mr.Cockayne, or did Mr. Cock ayne come to seek you upon this subject ? A. Mr. Cockayne was Mr. Corn's Solicitor, and was also mine. I went to him updh other business, and he re lated to me what I before stated. Q. (by Lord FOLKSTCYNE.) —Was your interview with Mr. Corti, and your promise to paw him 0200, .previous to your application in the regular way to the Commander-in-Chief ? A. No : I believe not. We did not mention any thing of the 8200 at that time.— Q. When was it mentioned ? A. After the letters of service had been granted.—Q. Why did you give the £2OO to Mr. Corn at all ? A. He previously expec ted something.—Q. Was the application to Mr. Corti previous to the regular application to the Com mander-in-Chief ?—A. No, certainly.—Q. Had you your first interview with Mr. Corri before your appli ' cation to the Commander-in-Chief? A. Assuredly. —Q. Did he state that he could introduce you to a i person who could do you service in your application ? A. Yes.—Q. Was the offer of the 500 guineas made with the knowledge of Mrs. Clarke ?—A. Yes. Q. (Colonel Wool)). Did you ever mention to Colonel French, that Mrs. Clarke had no influence with the Commander in Chief ? A. Repeatedly.—Q. What did Colonel French say ? A. Let us see what she will do.—Q. Did Colonel French say that you were to keep this transaction a secret ? A. Certainly. Q. Do you say that Mrs. Clarke required it to be kept a secret ? A. Most undoubtedly. She required that upon all occasions, her name and that of the Commander in Chief should be kept secret.—Q. From whom kept a secret ? As. From all the world. Q. Did Mrs. Clarke ever menion that she wished it to be kept secret from the Duke of York that she had received any money? A. Assuredly : she desired that it might never escape my lipS to any body.—Q. Have you reason to suppose, that she kept it a secret from the Duke of York ? A. Ido not pretend to say. Ido not know what Mrs. Clarke may have done with the Duke of York.—Q. Do you think that she concealed it from the Duke of York ? A. I believe she did. Q. (Mr. GRENFEL) Was any money paid to Mrs. Clarke 'before the levy was completed ? A. No. Q. (Sir THos. TURTON). Was the Duke of York ever privy to Mrs. Clarke's having received this money? A. Never.—Q. In the fifty times that you saw Mrs. Clarke, did she tell you he was ? A. Never.- - -Q.Was the money solely Colonel French's, cr your own ? A. It was from our joint stock.—Q. Why, when you supposed Mrs. Clarke had no influence with the Duke of York, did you throw away your 8501. upon a person who had no interest ? A. I can only say that she persuaded us to the contrary, and said, she had a great deal of influence with the Commander in Chief.—Q. I understood you paid Mrs. Clarke the 8501. subsequent to the time when you supposed she had no interest, why did you consent to throw away that sum of 8501. ? A. That was my opinion, not Colonel French's. Q. (Mr. BSRESFORD.) Do you recollect the date of your application for the letters of service ? A. I don't; that will'appear from the original document. Q. (Colonel Slam.) In what sums were the 8501. paid ? A. In various sums of 1001. 15Q1. and one of 2001. The witness then was ordered to withdraw. Mr. CORRI was then examined by Mr. WARDLL Q. Does he know Colonel French, and Captain Sanden, and did he know them previous to the letters of service ? A. He never saw Colonel French, and had some conversation with Captain San. den.—Q. Did he introduce Captain Sanden to Mrs. Clarke ? A. As he believed, Captain Sanden er :non did, 'ke Telicel • D4ei _ . Q I cannot say : Colonel French had raised two levies I Mrs. Clarke ? A. As he believed, Captain Sanden 1. 1 1 " in Ireland, with credit to himself and satisfaction to the I introduced himself.—Q. What was the sub stance a'' , 1 , A . Commander in Chief, and when he came to town, he of the first conversation between you and Captain 1,, .; I .1 *I i applied to me to assist him in a new levy.—Q. For Sanden ? A. Captain Sanden told me, he under- what . . Or .., i . h purpose did you give the 500 guineas to Mrs. stood that I could propose the matter to a person to , Clarke ? A. When the music-master undertook to in- very high in power. I told him I could ; and so I did, 1 , 1 1 troduce us to a person high in power, we thought it —Q• You mentien,ed the business to Mrs. Clarke ? better to give the 500 guineas for the assista n ce of A. I did : she t o ld me it was a matter o f great difi, l id . such a person, whether male or female ; and then we pulty, and begged that nobody would be ream., l ' ! f !a applied in the regular way to the Comma n d er i n men ded th a t was no t p er f ect ly qualified.—Q. Doss . s. Chief.—Q. Had you reason to believe that your sip- the witness remember the bargain that was stand to 11- plication would be refused by the Commander in have been made respecting this levyby Carpel rre34 ' ; -, • ...' ~! ~. Li ti 1 !I L ,' 4 , I .. , :t •.' ' ' 1 • i I ~~~ .11. :1 11 It FA ~~ ;~) LPL