Star. — London, England, 1811-03-19 00:00:00

tetneges bad severing allies: neat wat Nance intl. Stirernnsents with their weal rance sented as conciliating the affections of the people - , by her works of regeneration • if so, what was the return she had met with from the rugged and ungrateful people of Portugal ? They had united heart and hand m resistance to the invader, and were now in arms against him in greater numbers than had ever before been witnessed In that country. (Hear, hear.) They had not waited to stipulate reform, before they took up arms to resist the aggressor.—(Hear, hear.)—Cri.• ticisms had once been passed on the impolicy of dis persing our force and wasting its strength in a mul titude of unconnected operations; now the censure was, that that force was concentrated. It was well in his mind that the battle should be fought on other, shores than our own. —(Hear, hear.)—lt was NOM thing in his estimation that the fatal hour of that con. flict had been at least deferred. Let the length of war in Spain be contrasted with the duration of those wars in which Bonaparte has strided with such rapi dity over the prostrate dynasties of Europe. If indeed it was to be held that his march was irresistible, and that the Empire of the West must be finally estabo lished ' • if it was determined to be right that Europe should crouch before the Usurper, then the arguments which had been urged that night must be admitted to be incontrovertible. But if this doctrine was deserving only of contempt, then he could venture to say, that the Continent did not present an arena more fertile of ad v an tage than the present sceneof military action (Hear.) The Honourable Gentleman had argued that the ene my could easily repair a defeat, or retrieve any dis aster that could befal him. He remembered when much was said of the moral effect of victory, as de scriptive of the anticipated success of Bonaparte ; but was this moral influence some hidden charm whose virtue the enemy only could ascertain ; was it some magic spell ever operating in his exclusive favour ? The Expose of the French Minister had been referred to, and he would also beg to direct the attention of the House to the lately altered tone and commentary of the foreign Journals. If it did appear, that with one sixth part of our own military force we employed in Spain and Portugal, one-half of the enemy's dis posable strength, surely he might assume that it was the interest of the country to persist in the struggle and trial for an honourable issue. An Hon. General (Tarieton) had recently censured Lord Wellington for not attacking Marshal Ney. He must remind the House, that at the period referred to, Lord W.'s army was greatly reduced by detachments ; and that the one-half of it consisted of these untried, calumniated Portuguese, the objects with many, even now, of con tempt and derision. He would say too, that Rodrigo and Almeida had, even in their fall, exemplified the talents of the British General. When future ages should recur to the history of that campaign, it would be surveyed with the eye of impartiality and admira tion. For three years had the foe been baffled, and was now left with the solitary consolation of hoping to effect our expulsion by the exhaustion of our finan ces—(Hear, hear, hear.) —He was convinced that the battles which had taken place would not be ulti mately found to have been fought in vain. Cadiz and Gibraltar were but as dust in a balance when com ,pared to that state to which France was now com mitted. Much, however, had been done by the Spa niards in forming a legal Government in this last asy lum, and much of the non-performance on their part might be, perhaps, with toe much justice, im puted to our desponding and disheartening senti ments, which magnified their difficulties, and inspired despair where courage only should have been excited. He could not help feeling some degree of pain at the manner in which Lord' Wellington's conduct had been examined and condemned at home; and was apprehensive that his ardour might be abated on hearing of the insidious means employed to tarnish the lustre of his reputation. He believed that the ' time would yet come, when the proud circle of Lord Wellington's laurels would receive another wreath of glory, when a yet more signal atchievement would' raise him to a still higher pinnacle of fame. (Hear, hear.) He cherished the most sanguine expectation that the day would soon arrive, when another and transcending victory should silence the tongue of envy, and the cavils of party animosity ; when the British Commander would be hailed by the unani-i mous voice of his country, with the sentiment ad dressed on a memorable occasion to an illustrious cha t a cter, " hyaena glorid supernal." (Hear, hear.) General TA RLETON. declared that he meant no attack on Lord Wellington in what he had said on a former night. He had grounded what fell from him merely on the information contained in the Papers on the table relative to Ciudad Rodrigo. Mr. PEELE explained. • General TARLETON said, be only wished to vin dicate himself against the assertion made by the Ho nourable Member, of his having attributed gross ne glect to Lord Wellington. He had done no such thing. He had then adverted to the sacrifices we had made in the Peniasula. We had sent thither 50,000 men, and we had lost the whole of the Peninsula, ex cept that spot which lay between Cartaxo and Lisbon; in addition to which, we had also sent to Portugal £2,000,000 sterling in bullion. We had, during the whole period we were engaged in the contest, been making retrograde movements, and ruin alone could be the result. He (General 'l' ) had never . , • We?: He hided *tint into the c liif e rence bettlieen de present period and 1793. Mr. HENRY THO RNTON was of epinioti, that the preatnble of the Bill Might recite what Was the general intention of Parliament on the suhjecti and thee serve as a guide to the Commis.,ioliers. He certainly was desirous that the m .nufazturers should be the persons chiefly benefited by the proposed mea sure, although he was not for limiting the advantages of the measure so exclusively to the manufacturers as had been recommended by an Hon. Gentleman. Mr. HUSKISSON explained. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought any recitation in the preanible, of the view of Parliament, might tend to create difficulties in the execution of the trust to be reposed in the Commis sioners. The Committee would be aware that among the Commissioners whom he had named were cetera of those Gentlemen who had been most active as Commissioners in 1793. On that occasion the Cont missioners had proceeded by framing general questions to which all applicants for relief replied on oath, and thus underwent such a severe scrutiny, as to repel many improper applications. He conceived that it would be proper to compel every applicant to declare for what purpose he wanted assistance, in order that the Commissioners might know they granted money for proper objects; and he was convinced, that the best security which Parliament .-ould have for the pro per distribution of this sum of six millions, was the wisdom and discretion of the individuals in whom the power of distributing it was to be vested. Mr. TIERNEY repeated his anxiety for the little manufacturer, who, he was persuaded, would not be paid, or at most, paid but in part by the merchant, ' after the latter had obtained a loan for that purpose. Great difficulties would take place also in the due appreciation of the value of the goods, which were to be pledged for the payment of the money borrowed. General TARLETON said, he held in his hand some Resolutions of the Merchants of Liverpool, de claratory of their intention to apply to Parliament for the aid of a million. He wished to know whether it was intended to grant an additional million for that purpose, or to allow the Liverpool Merchants to par. take of the six millions to be advanced by the Bill ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER teplied, that the Merchants of Liverpool would enjoy the same advantages as any other merchants who ap. plied for relief. Mr. W. SMITH was persuaded that many mere chants who would borrow money under the Act for an avowed purpose, namely, to pay their debts to the manufacturers, - would employ but a portion of it in that manner, and by way of speculation would pur chase with the rest goods at their present depreciated ,value. He knew no mode of guarding against this perversion 'of the intention of Parliament, but by giving complete publicity to the applications made to the Commissioners. - The CHANCELLOR rf the EXCHEQUER protested against the publicity recommended by the Honourable Gentleman, and observed that no part of the conduct of the Commissioners in 1793, deserved, and obtained greater praise, than their honourable secrecy. As to the apprehension of the Honourable Gentleman that the merchant would purchase the goods of the manufacturer at a depreciated price, such a sale on the part of the manufacturer would telt be compulsory, as he might, if he preferred it, obtain relief from the Commissioners by the deposit of his goods. Some explanations took place between Mr. Tierney. ' the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. W. Smith, and Mr. Whitbread. In answer to a question from Mr. W. SMITH, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, that the interest on the Excheepter Bills to be issued would be Std. a-day en each £lOO. The motion was then agreed to ; as was also a clause, by which it was provided, that no person in the Exchequer Bill Office should receive additional fees in consequence of the additional issue of Exche. quer Bills. The House was then resumed ; the Report was re ceived, and ordered to he taken into further consider. ation to-morrow. The Bill was ordered to be printed. Mr. TIERNEY moved, that there be laid before the House the minutes of the evidence taken before the Committee on Commercial Credit. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. observed, that having so recently detailed his objec. tions to this proposition, he felt it,to be unnecessary to repept them. The motion was then negatived without a division. MILITIA ENLISTMENT BILL. - Lord PALMERSTON moved the secona reading of the Militia Enlistment Bill. Lord MILTON opposed it, on the ground that It must seriously interfere with the military recruiting for the line. • Colonel DUCIEET objected to the ballot, and ap proved of the- plan by which it had been proposed to fill, up the . Militia corps by recruiting. He also pro posed that 20 or 4€25 penalty should be taken by Clio.. • r yernmettt, if the balloted person chose, instead of per. Isonal service. A great advantage would thus arise, • from putting an end to the nuisances called Militia In surance Offices. He likewise suggested that a sti- . rnulus should be given to the Militia O ffi cer to raise men, by allowing leave of absence in proportion to the number of men he procured. Lord PALMERSTON stated, that it was the in. tention to avoid the ballot, if. men could be got in a reasonable •'-rve le- It was also - totriA itot staitita4i sititieives le that tatittirh was not now, how odr attay wits to get Portugal ; b;rt, when that should cocas' he was afraid it would be found to be-a , tatter. Gentlemen opposite agreed that' must go through the purgatory of inva sion; but he was afraid if a ffairs went on in their pro. sent state they must also encounter the purgatory of a revolution. He (General Tarleton) looked to the matter in a more manly manner than those on the other side did They viewed it in a dastardly point of view. He was for fighting with full numbers ; Gentlemen opposite seemed to wish to wait till the country had encountered every disaster, and till their means were diminished, and the spirits of their troops ken by defeats in other quarters. On these grounds he was against the grant. The Resolution was then put, and agreed to with out a division. The Report was ordered to be received to-morrow, and the Committee - to sit again on Friday. NAVY BSTIMATES. Mr. YORKE moved that the Resolution for grant ing re 71,251 18s. 6d. for the Navy Ordinary, be re committed, owing to some error in the statement—. The Report was then gone through, and received. SUPPLY. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought up the Report of the Committee of Supply of' Friday. The Resolu tions relative to the Navy Estimates were agreed to. On the question of the grant of 81,300 to the Poor of the Parish of St. Martin's in the Field , Mr. WHITBREAD begged some explanation on the nature of this grant. Mr. WHARTON repeated what he had stated oa a former night, that this sum was made up of a Va riety of grants, not to the Parish of St. Martin's alone, but also the Parish of Ely, of St. James's, of St. Mar tin's in the West, and to several Schools and Hospi tals. The grants were ancient. Some of them he had traced to Charles 11. some to Henry VIII. and others he had been unable to trace. These did not strictly form part of the poors' rate, but went in exo neration of it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the grant in question had been transferred from the Civil List to Parliament, and as such had been ratified by them. The other Resolutions were agreed to. COMMERCIAL CREDIT. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, then moved the Order of the Day for the House go ing into a Committee on the Bill relating to Com mercial Credit. On the question* being put for the Speaker's leay. ing the Chair— Lord FOLKSTONE opposed the Committee on the grounds of his dislike to the Bill. The original Committee was one-half commercial men, and the re mainder persons connected with office. In 1793 there [were but four commercial men on the Committee.— Much of the evidence in the Report was contradic ' triry. The grant must increase the evil ultimately, because it would only enable the manufacturers to work, without enabling them to sell—and their pre. sent sufferings arose from having too much lying on their hands already. There was no probability that the Continent would soon be open. The South Ame. rican market was most unproductive. He was adverse to taking goods as security for the loan ; for if the gsods were of no use to the merchant for sale, they could be of no value to the Government. The bor rowing of six millions would enhance the rate of the other loans for the year. Mr. MARRYATT was once adverse to the mea sure proposed ; but had, on the most mature conside ration, changed his opinion. Much good might be done by it. All markets were not shut, as the home market, the West-India market ; and if the North American market were finally closed, we might im port tobacco, indigo, and cotton from the West In ffrs instead of America. Those commodities were solid wealth ; they would be actually consumed in our manufactures at home. He thought that a clause should be inserted, prohibiting any of the Commis sioners from taking any part of the loan for himself, or giving security for any person who did. ' Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that the market of South America, instead of increasing must diminish, from the convulsions and agitations now prevailing In that country. The present Bill, instead of dimi nishing the evil, would ultimately augment it ; for it would give rise to still greater speculations than the Cast. What was the House about to do ? It was libout to involve the country in deeper distress, and visit the faults of those who have indulged in ex travagant speculation on those who have not. It was better at once that the manufacturer should return to tilling the ground, than continue in so hopeless a pursuit. The House then divided—For going into the Corn thittee 103—Against it 16—Majority 87. On the Gallery being opened, we found the CHAN CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explaining in the Commit tee the system of warehouses to be adopted. They were to be opened in both parts of the United King dom—both Great Britain and Ireland. lie then proceeded to explain the nature of the terms of pay ment, which were to be fifteen days later than the time at which the dividends should come in. He then proceeded to read over the names of the Com missioners, among whom we collected the following : the Lord Mayor, the Hon. W. Lambe, Sir James Shave, Samson Perry, Esq. Mr. Thornton, Sir Chas. Pole, dr. Pole, Mr. Harris, Mr: Lygon, Mr. Bo sancinet, Mr.Halford, Mr. Smith, Mr. Harrison, Mr. the retreat of the British forces, under circunutalices. which he would not thendis . Cuss I It ((mid not be' denied, however,that we hadnowlost the whale of that coun try, with the exception of Lisbon and its envi rons. The question therefore was, Was there here sutlicint inducement to lead the House to accede to a contineance of the present system I Was this coun try to exhaust its resources in the hope, the vain hope of drawing Bonaparte into an equally large expendi ture ? The Right Honourable Gentleman could hardly hive well considered the probable effects of such aft attempt. Yet he could not, he conceived, be i g iontnt of the expence of sending money to Lisbon at the present period. He spoke greatly within hounds, when he asserted that upon every hundred pounds sent from this country there was an immedi ate loss of thirty. In stating this, he defied contra diction—(Hear, Azar.) But this was not all, when the money arrived, it was paid half only in cash, and half in Portuguese paper, already much depreciated. How long is it supposed that this country can sus tain such a burden ? Had they not already reached a period when an issue of Exchequer bills was found necessary to maintain the credit of their merchants ? The Right Honourable Gentleman had himself told them, that the Emperor of France was reduced to the necessity of endeavouring to succeed in his ob jects by a protracted contest. He feared the Right Honourable Gentleman, with all his knowledge, keew little of the intentions of Bonaparte. He be lieved his own information was perfectly aethentic, which represented the enemy to have a disposable force of 400,000 men over and above the whole num ber in Spain and Portugal. Was it not known to the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, that he was also collecting a great force in the North ; and if this Was the case, he could not see any subject of congratulation in the confinement of almost tke whole of our own troops in a corner of the Peninsula. It was asserted that the'contest was forced on us, but it was certain that in this particular spot the 'contest Ives of our own choosing. Since the battle of Tala vera, all our operations, with the exceptions of the garrisons of Cadiz and Gibraltar, and a few slight expeditions, had been confined within the limits of Portugal. He was satisfied in his own mind, that if the objects now pursued should be deemed worths , of the blood and treasure expended, the defence of a 'few towns in the Peninsula would disable England.— (Hear, hoer.) He did not wish to divide the Honse, or to give any sort of angry opposition, but he desired the House 'to reflect on t few eirnmstances. The ex pence of transports chiefly employed between this country and Lisbon was three millions, of the army fifteen or sixteen, of the navy four or five. By the estimates before the House, it appeared that the whole expenditure was not less than twenty-three millions. All this for the preservation of a few garrison towns. Be was not desirous of taking up more of the tittle of the House than was requisite for the expression of his opinion, that a perseverance in the present sys. tem must tend to undermine our own security—to exhaust our own resources, and to endanger our own ultimate safety. Mr. SULLIVAN took a review of the state of Por tugal tidtv, and its state in 1809, when the struggle first commehced, and dwelt on the benefits which our aid and the Portuguese patriotism had produced. By unr exertions we had repulsed the troops of France, compelled their Empernr to call his select General 11 their command, and rendered his vaunt of placing his Imperial Eagle on the towers of Lisbon, in 1809, ridiculous. The Portuguese had marshalled 40,000. 1 men in the field ; a force, compared with the popu lation of Portugal, much greater than any of the v.. teran military nations of Europe had called forth.— Spain and Portugal bad glade a powerful resistance ; they had exceeded his most sanguine hopes; and he looked forward to their final success against the tyrant of Europe. Under these circumstances he should concur in the motion. Mr. FREEMANTLE took a review of the conse quences severally following the three last campaigns, for - the purpose of shewiqg, that notwithstandin the skill of his Gallant and. Honourable Friend L ord Wellington, and the firmness and invincible resolu tion atom troops, the results of each successive year yielded decisive evidence of the error of the system on which our operations had been founded. Every plan had been frustrated, every unfavourable predic tion verified, and every event had teemed with disas ter and disappointment. In the first campaign we generously sent our enemy a reinforcement of 20,000 of his own troops ; and in the second, ,we saved the wreck of our own army only by the vigour and match less skill of the Generale() whom the expedition had been entrusted, and who fell the lamented victim of the.impolicy with which it was formed. He appre ciated too highly, and felt too warm an admiration of the . coniluctof that army to throw any blame or , aspervon upon it., He would trace the evil to its true source, the weakness and di -action of our Councils which sacrificed such waluabk bravery in a cause so unavailing.. The Honountble Gentleman, after-a va riety of lurther observations, declared, that such was the dilemma to which the country was reduced by the impossibility of immediately tecallmg.our army, that be would nut vote against the ing4o ll . Mr. PEELE observed, that in die lest Tear when the House could only proceed nppnconjecture, there was naturally great variance of opinion. There was then pletisille„ground for the 4oulies end differences which agitat e ‘ the minds of men. The scepticism iand despondent feelings of the Honourable ,Gentleman opposite were then in some measuie explained by the I' a'arletony recollection that Franke had just COPCIII44 a peace heard any charge whispered against General Moore. Grant, Mr. Curwen. He had no objection, if it was : that a fourth or fifth of the new levies might consist with Austria, an t W as prepare d to emp l o y i ts w h o l e H e h a d b een sen t poi ca mp a i gn i n which no man wished, that a clause should be adopted prohibiting 'of boys, as.in the regular service. force in the Peninsula. We had now had experience could be successful,- lie had acted like a brave, de- the Commissioners from deriving any benefit to them. I Lord FOLKESTONE objected to the extreme .of these'additional levies, and could fratne our calcu- termined , and high - minded officer ; and he had sealed selves from the issue. • I pressure of the ballot under the present system. He latio ns u p on a Ore f o o n d a tio n . The Portuguese had l his character with his blood. Every thing that sur- Mr. TIERNEY wished to favour the manufacturer, highly commended the plan of Mr. Windham, which shewn themselves to be equa l to the corn h d r, an d war - roun d e d hi m w a s covere d by disVess, and there was because the breaking up of a manufacture destroys . promised to raise 20,000 men annually for the regu. ranted us in entetfaining a sanguine expectation of its nothing at any time to be expected from the enter- the future wealth of the country. The system of . lar army by recruiting, by its efficacy in this way, as future exertions. When we had thus is the course prize in which he was engaged. As to the question the Right Honourable Gentleman, however, made ; long as it was allowed to remain. But when the pre. of the last yea r exchanged vague'cpnjecture for satis- before the House, he was decidedly of opinion that ,no distinction between themerchant aud manufacturer. I sent men came into office, they destroyed that plan, factory experien c e, he must consider the time which' the House should not, in the present state of comma-- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 1 and consequently, in the last year, not more than nine had been used that night on the other side as not a cial distress, send two millions mo re t o Portugal. He said, th a t in giving assistance to the merchant, he ' thousand men had been raised. This led to the itn little surp r i s i ng , (Hear, k a ,...) Th os e h o p es o f com . c ould demonstrate that the Portuguese soldier s could was enabled to pay the manufacturer, who in the end I proper means for procuring men now resorted to. But plete success which had been Ascribed toGoverninent, have be e n bad for ont-third less than that which was deri ve d a ll t h e b ene fi t o f i t. 1 his great objection was to the overturning of the whole they had never ind u l g ed in. and he believed the Ho- now paid them. He proceeded to shew that the Por- Mr. TIERNEY d en i e d t hi s . , H e a l so sa id , that principle of the Militia service. nourable G ent k man --w ou ld h ar dly c h a ll e nge him on tuguese troops had never been of any actual service. i a distinction sh ou ld b e . ma d e b etween t h e great and Mr. D. GIDDY anx i ous l y recomme n ded to dis. points of p r edi c ti on ., What had beep the fate of those They had ne ve r b een what the y ou g ht to have been, ! small manufacturer ; and yet he would venture to : pence with the ballot if possible. . predictio ns w hi c h aa holdly pronounced the unfitness a manoeuvring army , such as our Local Militia would say, t h at t h e great manu f acturers would absorb all I The House then divided, . of th e P or t uguese ? (H ear , h ear .) We had been asked have been with the sam e training. The present war, she six millions. I For the second reading 50—Against it 21—Mst. ,Mr. HUSKISSON said, he could easily conceive jority 29. what would become of the Portuguese armies in the -if to be carried on in the Peninsula , must be a war- event of our abandoning t h at .country I c erta j o i r f ar . o f fiance; c ould never be attende d with any ad. that r eli e f mi g ht b e g i ven to a great description of i The bill was then committed, reported, and ordered little,' be conceived, to un i son . with getruine British vantage i and the fatal tr u t h m u st at.i ength be told, merchauts which would never come to the m anu f ac - to b e tur , t h er cons id ere d un Th urs d ay , — Adj ourned . . . s e had been tavistra od.t eir.taitho44,lo-get,„ %hit eotild g allies: We had been tauntingly bold gaps hue' The eineition was unpopittat on the COntinent 6 that while away edt of improved the institutions and reformod the *to be done, he meats of Spain and Portugal, we made alliance difficult mai teir weakness and corruptions France was repro , this country r •••••