Star. — London, England, 1819-02-27 00:00:00

•AIRY PR HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 26. OMNI were finally beard touching the Scets cause, "Ike held Aboyne v. Innes."—Judgmeat °lithe Appeal cause of " The Earl P s: ft Zt a. Wellweed,“ Counsel were partly heard.—To proceed again on Monday. The Earl of Pown took the oaths and his seat. Some private and routine business was disposed of. Viscount S I DMOUTH begged leave to state that it was his intention originally tb haw proposed the Earl of Portia as one of the Lords' Committee on the State of Prisons; but finding that Noble Earl had not been swop, he was constrained to postpone the nomination : however, as his Lordship had taken the oaths this evening, he would now move " that the Earl of Powis be added to the Committee on the State of Prisons iu England and Wales,"—which was ordered accordingly. The Chimney Sweepers' Regulation Bill was broaght up from the Commons by Mr. En:err and others, and read the firs: time. The Earl of KELLIE (one of the Scots Representative Pairs) presented a Petidon from the Landholders and Farmers of the County of Fife, praying that in regulating the Average Brice of Corn, the Maritime Districts of Scotland may be in cluded with those of England and Wales —which being read, was ordered to lie on the table . — Adjourne d till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Glarran took the oaths and his seat. On the motion of Lord Cisirturiaams ' the Report of the lk igniters at the last Ballot was ordered to be received en Monday. Mr. DICKINSON presented* Petition from certain Land hohlets, in the County of, Somerset, praying that additional Duties should be laid upon . the importation of Foreign Corn. lie said, that his own opinion tfid not concur with that of the Petitioners, as to the expediedcy of imposing any additional diity. Nene such was decessary. But at the same time, he fully.concirred in thinking that this country ought to be an ex porting country as to Corn, as it had been about the middle of the last century. Mr. BIRCH said, he thought ip a very ill-judged time to pre sent such Petitions when the ports were shit. lie disapproved altogether of such Petitions, and contended that the population of the country had out-grown its powers of production. Air. DICKINSON said that the Petition had not been pre pared for the purpose of being presented at the time when the ports were shut.—The Petition was brought up and read, and ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. Mr. C‘INNING presented Copies of Treaties concluded with the Native Powers in India.—Ordered to lie on tht table, and to be printed. DUTY ON COALS. Sir C. MORGAN presented a Petition from cer tain Inhabitants of the County of Monmouth, pray ing that no alteration might take place in the present Duties on Coals. Mr. NEVI MAN observed, that 'nothing could be' more unjust than the present system, and he hoped his Majesty's Ministers would see the subject in the , same light. Sir C. MORGAN said that the proposition which I:ad been made on the subject of the Coal Duties, if, ca-ried into effect, would cause the greatest distress ar.d ruin in those districts in which Coals were indis- pensihle to manufacturers. Mr. EDWARDS perfectly agreed with, the Ho r.ourable Baronet. To tax Coals at the mine would be an incalculable injury to the iron works ; and • wh , ..a the magnitude of those works was considered, thc importance of the question would be evident,. There was not a man who wore hob nails in his shoes who would not suffer by such an imposition. Being perfectly convinced of the impolicy of any change, he did hope that Parliament would leave the law respecting the,Dutics on Coals untouched. Sir ISAAC COFFIN observed, that the poor in the counties which would be most materially affected by any change in . the Duties on COals were already in such it State that they could scarcely buy shoes to their feet or salt to their porridge. The fat eaters of venison in the Metropolis ought to 'be ashamed of .themselves for wishing to benefit by a farther pres sure on those who were already enduring so much. Mr. E. J. LITTLE'TON wished to learn, whether it was in contemplation to bring forward any mea sure for imposing a general Duty on Coals. Some proceeding, with this view, had been expected, and had excited a great ferment• in the county which he represented (Staffordshire). He was determined to give such a measure all the opposition in his power. Mrs BENNET bore testimony to the prevalence of a similar alarm in the county with which he was connected (Shropshire), and signified his intention to resist any prorpsition for imposing a general Duty. • Mr. CALCHAFT observed, that he did not be lieve an equalization of Duties would have the effect of turning any description of persons out of employ ment; but, on the contrary, that it would lead to an increased consumption of coals. It was certainly de sirable that there should not be a premium on coals in one part of the country, and a tax upon them in another, which was the care at present. He was a little surprised at the feeling manifested by the very loyal Counties, as they had been called, of Stafford shire and Shropshire, and should certainly support any measure which might effect a more equal disti hut i on of the burden. Mr. STUART WORTLEY said, he was inimical to the - equaiizAtion sytem on this priticiple—that those who recommended it, instead of' praying to be relieved from the Tax themselves, wished it to be eatznded to others. - ' Mr. PROTHEROE observed, that this was evi dently a case in which parties were contending for their separate interests, and it was for the House to decide between them. It had an anomalous appear anon, that one half of the country should be exempt from the application of a tax to which the other was sui.irct. The inhabitants of Staffordshire had' no reason for discontent or alarm in their present cir cumstances ; and he was happy. to inform the Ho nourable Member 'for that County, that the iron trade was now flourishing there with unprecedented success. He should avoid the difficulty touched on by the Honourable Member who spoke last, by op posing any Tax whatever on Coals, being satisfied , that this was one of -those impolitic measures which defeated its own end, and that the impulse which its repeal would give to Manufactures would more than compensate a temporary reduction of the revenue. HOLME SUMNER concurred in the opi nions which had been just expressed. The whole • Duty on Coals amounted' to 1,200,0001. of which su m, 63,1,0001, was paid by Middlesex and Surrey, awl the residue by four other Counties. The rest of the Country was exempted from the payment of any Duty on this necessary article. Its pressure on the l o ixer orders was grievous. Honourable Members from different parts of the country might state their hopes and sentiments as to this question coming on; but he pledged himself that it should be brought under the co nsideration of the House. The Counties be ha .alteady mentioned, were subject, in addition to t hi s exc lusive Duty, to all that advance of price rich the prevalence of easterly winds s eld om roiled to produce. A Duty of Sixpence per Chaldron throughout the Country would produce a Re tinue equal to the present. If the Members for the City of. London should not introduce the s;bject. he should think himself guilty of a dereliction of duty if he 'did not bring it under the consideration of Parliament. Lord - GRANVILLE SOMERSET remonstrated against any alteration in the duties. Mr. N. CALVERT contended that the existing Tax was partial and unjust. Lord, CASTLEREAGH observed, that the present was scarcely a fair opportunity for discussing the subject. Mr. LITTLETON admitted the truth of the No ble Lord's remark, but added, that whenever the Ho nourable Member for Surrey chose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, whether for the appointment of a Committee on the subject or in 'any other shape, he would give it his most decided opposition.—The Petition was then ordered to be printed. Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET presented simi lar Petitions from the Iron-workers of Monmouth shire, Glamorganshire, and Brecknockshire.--Or dered to be printed. • PENRYN Mr. ATKYNS WRIGHT, Chairman of the Com mittee appointed to try the merits of a Petition com plaining of an undue return for the BOrough of Penryn, appeared at the Bar with a Special Report,, representing that Henry Swann, Esq. was not duly elected, that the Petition was not frivolous or yen-' tious ; that it had appeared to the Committee that Henry Swann, Esq. had been guilty of bribery, and was therefore incapacitated to serve in Parliament; that evidence had been produced sufficient to convict three persons of using corrupt influence, and eight others of receiving bribes. The Report being laid upon the table, Mr. A. WRIGHT moved, that the Speaker should issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown to make out a new Writ for the Borough of Penryn, in the room of Henry Swann, Esq. Sir C. BURRELL regretted that he felt it his duty to oppose the motion for issuing a Writ for an Elec tion for this Borough. But it appeared to him that the case was one which required that the minutes of the evidence, and proceedings of the Committee, ought to be laid before the House. He understood that lists had been given in on each side, containing each the names of above one hundred individuals who had been guilty of bribery. It also appeared by the Re port, that three persons, employed as agents at the last Election, had been guilty of corrupt practices. On the whole, therefore, he thought it impossible for the House to form a just opinion on this case, until it was in possession a" the minutes of the Committee, and that this should be done before the new Writ was issued, or any other proceeding adopted. He concluded by moving as an amendment, " That the Speaker do not issue his Warrant for the said Writ, until the House have proceeded to take the Report into further cossideration." Mr. HOLDSWORTH said he believed it was not usual for the House to suspend the issuing of the Writ without some great cause appeared to justify so strong a measure. ' The notice which had been men tioned was- not that so many voters had been bribed on each side, but that such party had been guilty of bribery, with the view of making any further votes availing to either party. He should therefore vote for the issuing of the Writ. Mr. HARVEY said, that the lists of voters guilty of bribery had been issued by each party, with the view of disqualifying any further votes on behalf of either party. Mr'. CAREW said it was true that the bribery had been so notorious that notices were issued by each party, stating that votes given to the other would be thrown away. It also appeared that the three agents who had been found guilty of corrupt practices were contractors for the 6orough. Under these circum stances, he thought it but fair that the House should pause before issuing the the ‘Vrit. A MEURER said he had been one of the Committee, and he would venture to say, that a more fair Com mittee had never been appointed. However, he thought It necessary that he should now state, that though he was bound by the opinion of the majority of that Committee, that there was rot sufficient ground for recommending the disfranchisement of the Borough, yet it was his opinion that it should have been recommended. In all such cases he thought, that where any thing like a sufficient case could be made out, the House would act most wisely by with drawing the elective franchise from those who grossly abused it. He was not one of those who called them selves Reformers, but who meant something much more than Reform ; yet he was not ashamed to own himself a moderate Reformer—(Hear, kar). And he always thought that the House would preserve the best kind of Reform, in all cases of this kind, by marking those Boroughf which shamefully bartered their elective rights, and transfer them to such great towns as Manchester and Leeds, which sent no Mem ber to Parliament—or to so large a county as York, which sent only two—(Hear, hear). Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that when it was be fore the House that notorious bribery bad been corn• mitted, he should have thought that ground enough to induce the House to refrain at once from comply-, ins with aznotion for issuing a new Writ for the same, place, until it had inquired more minutely into the circumstances of the case; for though the House had delegated its power to the Committee, when that Committee reported that they had found that many of the Burgesses had been bribed, tha t was quite sufficient, prilerkfacie, to have the whole case laid be- fore the House ; .and he was sure that the House, by acting thusovould best attend to the interests . of the public. Mr: A. WRIGHT felt himself called that the Committee been made out or many but the names given to point out Lord CA would be found such as must ' case ; but if should hold don, it was complete as I should nbt be however, there people. if- lie rose Privileges decision, the peo- Perlieineet, lie in A anxious Hon.' conspiracy had been formed against the Member, he should be for inflicting the t nishment that the law would allow. H e say that there was no conspiracy, he had do with that question at present. The ' excuse him for putting those Members been present on Wednesday in possession (The Honourable Gentleman then stated of the charge contained in the petition Wilson had presented.) The Honourable for Limerick, in his place, made a most reply. But what followed ? The House be evidence at theßar on Monday sot m, Honourable Member said, that he had recei , the petitioner's father that letter for whit' was now in prison. He thought the House have acted with greater decorum, if they ' steps to secure Mr. Grady's attendance w 1 but had abstained from proceeding immediyaz,: such' an extremity. It sometimes har p strangers contrived to hear their proceedil on that occasion Mr. Grady having gained sion into the House, heard the vote which against him. Would not Mr. Grady have tified, if on having heard the vote, and peared at the Bar, he had said, " I ha , vote, and I will not presume to question bat I will not answer those questions wl to me, for the first principle of justice from convicting myself." The Member 'rick, forsooth, who was no party in the came forward to give his evidence to city of the letter, for which Mr. Grady bar. Now, suppose—it was extremely obliged to put the supposition—that, in of Monday, instead of the conspiracy !xi tho petitioner should prove the case again. ber for Limerick ? They believed the Member to be innocent, on account of t. impressive defence which he had made—b, it should prove the other way, what wot. consequence ? By Mr. Quin, the person evidence had been given, and those it.ho not know- the decision they were comi. Quin ought not to have been admitted in that proceeding. If it had been pat night, many of those who had vo*e.l on don, would not have voted for the corm Mr. Grady. Ile knew that many Members that they had given that vote, and were they had been too hasty. How had the 'given? It had no date, no address. The Member on receiving it had thrown the the table. He did not deny this—hut he . that the Honourable Member's evidence , to have been admitted. There was another to which he would advert. There had been derable titter through the House when took out his spectacles at the Bar, and %al not see to read by candle-light. Now pledge himself to prove at the Bar of by the most respectable evidence both In. and England, that Mr. Grady has not been many years to see a single letter by cr that he is almost perfectly blind at would prove farther, that he was so short. that if he had not a guide, even a carriage over him without his being able to avoid He mentioned this to shew the feeling of Rio that night, because they had thought blase was a trick on the part of Mr. Grady, be was wishing to deceive them. He could ibat although Mr. Grady was _a literary ." end fond of reading, he could not use night. • He would state further, that Mr. 1 the power of retii irig from the House over again, for he had been marked in the earl' the evening by the Honourable Member. ing, therefore, %kb the greatest respect for sion of the House,• was a proof that wished to deceive them, nor to elude their He would then state broadly, that there was that Mr. Grady had written the letter in the Honourable Member. But supposing had written it, yet the House would recollect had written it in a moment of irritation, • the decision of the Honourable Member the office. The Honourable Member, in had asked, " Why, if I was afraid of an tion, did I net give him the office ?" This received by the House with cheers upon the Honourable Member had given the office Smith on the 22d of September, and Mr letter is dated the 19th of October ; conseqt had not the power of giving the office to Mr. son after the 19th of October. The evidence Gould, and of the petitioner, against the able Member, was represented in the charge bfishing this fact. It had not then been in ' of the Honourable Member, except they he had the power, because the once had be to Mr. Smith durinrpleasure. • He Insisted that there was not evidence to prove that was Mr. Grady's ; if there was such evidence, letter was written after the decision of the able Member, and in a moment of irritation. would non: go further, and say that them line in the letter containing a breach of t leges of the House; 'he would read the letter to shew this. Mr. W. WYNN begged to interrupt the able Member. He conceived it going too Member, when a Resolution of the House tinctly pronounced upon a fact, to come say that the fact was not so—(Hear, hear, Mr. H. HUTCHINSON would be permitted say, that having been absent on the conclusion proceedings on the former night, and having to convince several Gentlemen of the justice - sentiments which he entertained upon the J. thought it necessary to move upon that night the proceedings should be printed for the ,tion of the Howe. His object in this was , a more full dilcussion of •the case. He was ted with the character of Mr. Grady, and to ,he a person of great respectability, lents and conduct. Mr. WYNN had no possible objection ing of the letter, or to any other proceeding the Honourable Member might have thou ' to have recourse to; but he objected to statement which had just been beard by u. that that which was voted a breach of privilege not such in fittt--(Hear, 'hear!) Mr. IL 117.INSON hopefi, that even occasion of so touch iitatet as that ill fitiLifir felt himself called upon to state ben, perhaps, wee not aware of the decision they , rnmittee had not found that bribery had were coming to. Ile did not undervalue, the privi- mt against the majority of the Burgesses, leges of Parliament—he respected them as valuable, ut only a few of them. In mentioning because they enabled Parliament to protect the peo- iven in the Report, the Committee meant ple---(l4Bar, Ansi.). The. privileges of Parliament, diose who had most grossly trauligrelsed thereore, were:the ' privileges of , the people: He ISTLEREAGH had no dthibillhat it should be ignorant of the Constitution, if-he rose in ound the decision of the •Was his place to *minty reduction on the privileges of ust be ratified u pon the exiditeen tithe the Helsel But, with respe c t to t h a t decision, he ' there wxs any pnriciple'whi J ; ihelltineei tonieivied *either had aeeed in error. He -should twome 7Lid as sacred as the puiittd, . - , be itnillf it tre!.. tha t was anxious to ; that the Repieseotatinn ,rn . Oe . at preteens. SC • against the Hon. Men- V asa possible and that th e siett OP .. --. , . ' be, elr tit ' MOM. • On the cos em' a ie withheld from ' thbeeer& -- 11 f; is it the* r Wasight, it should Ire appeared fait gropaitt - fstai thetas's- :eippeael as' ' thong* it avoid appear, that a e Ho nour* e severe d 1e a 1d ncd in House who a of the Lir, td the r.at sp 'which Si t R . able !klemb et it triutup • !se resoh edti mught. Tat received h ots ich th e „ 41 House w o ley h a d tak4 when re qu i r , 4 nmedine:v appened ceediniy, ch was aass t d lave been haring aye heard t A In its jun.k.. hich you protects :r 4 er for Lira e proceediri, the attei.c.--. stood 2.:te painful to t the inqt , .:7, being pave;, Inst the Mtr- the ah!e a-,1 —but. sap' ce vould be rson accuse,; .110 votd sing t o . d an 4. - ..er t off :ill :.2t: on that tcc: , . inimitmera cf hers repented re awa:e tha e let:el bee e Ilunuuralit cover lark; re maintained ce ought act nother paint been a consi- a Mr. Grady ;aid he could w, he would that Holie, from lrelani *en able for candle-light; night. He hort-sighted, ze might nil id it—thee.%) tf the lity,l2 that this et- dy, and t!::: ould pro, Gentler u::, e a bcck Grads had 'er and over early prt of • His wait. for the deci- : be r.either eir sentence. was no proof question to ing that he dlect &tithe in, and the T respecting his defence, in investiga- his had been cheers; but Ace to Mr. Kr. Grady's *fluently, he Mr. .Grady's fence of Mr. he Honour- arge as estw , in the power ey find that been gives ted upon it tat the letter vidence, the the Honour- itation. He re was not a of the privi- n ter in order the Honour- o far for au! use had dir' to dawn and r, hear). )ermitted to fusion of the laving failed tice of those subject, Ile tight that all he informk LS to procu:e vas acqiiair.- id knew him both fur ta- to the rei!- which sight even i ° egicisrelcPolhbr pr op e r • h.raje WWI . adopted by the Hesse on forgoer emir at a Align kind, to induce the House to make further inquiry, before a new Writ was issued in this case, of rn be agreed to. But before hicotildmenturs to form'en opinion on this case, he should wish to hear from the Chair, whether the House had ever suspended the issuing of the Writ unless where the Special Report of the Committee expressly recommended it ? The SPEAKER.—Being called upon by the Noble Lord, to state, whether it had been usual for the House to suspend the issuing a new writ in such a case, except when there was a special report by the Committee ; he must say that it was clear, unless where there was a special report, the House had not delayed issuing the writ. But that did not resolve the difficulty in the present case, for here there was a Special Report. If it were clear from the Report that no part of it charged the bribery against the Borough at large, but only against a few individuals, that could not be considered as giving any opinion of the Committee as to . the conduct of the Borough in general ; and he was not prepared to say that in such a case the House had ever delayed to issue the writ. At the same time the House could not expect that he should be able to state off-hand whether there were any precedent to that effect—(hear, hear). The Noble Lord had very perspicuously stated the coreect principle, that the great object of the House was to complete its representation as soon as Possible. It was now for the House to decide whether this Report stated sufficient grounds to induce the House to sus- , pend the writ. He was sorry that it had not been possible for him to examine the precedent on the question—(hear, hear). The first case which must occur to every one was that of Helstore But that was a clear case, as the Special Report went to the suspension of the Writ--(hear, hear). Lord CASTLEREAGH thought, that after what had fallen from the Chair, it would be desirable to postpone the debate, that there might be time to consider the subject. He moved that the Debate be adjourned till Monday. Mr. WYNNE said, there were various cases appli cable to the present question, such as those of Shaftes bury, Aylesbury, and Stockport. But in all the cases in which the Writ had been suspended, it had been on the motion of the Chairman and the suggestien of the Committee, that the bribery . had been general. At the same time, evenwhen the Report of the Com mittee did not suggest the measure, he was fir from thinking that the House might nut be inclined to adopt it on the statement made to them by individual Members of the Committee. He could conceive many cases in which there might be evidence of such corrupt practices in a Borough as would induce the House to legislate for the future elections in it, with out going the whole length of diseinchisement.— The proposal of the Noble Lord to adjourn the de bate, seemed to him the best. For it was to be con sidered that suspending the Writ was the greatest stretch of power that could be exerted by the House, and ought therefore to be looked upon with great jealousy. He agreed that to withdraw the Elective fran chise from those who grossly abused it, was the most ,useful and efficient species of reform—(hear, hear).-- h had produced the best effects in the various cases in which it had been done—(hear, hear.) Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that this was the se cond instance of bribery in the same Borough. Mr. P. MOORE said, he understood that in this case so great had been the corruption, that neither party had ventured to tender the bribery oath. Where the elective franchise was abused in Boroughs the House had seen the advantage of extending it to the Hundred ; for if there must be bribery, at least that would have the good effect of checking it, by obliging those who had recourse to it to make it more general:—(teud letup:ker.) Mr. HOULDSWORTH said, the Committee had not pronounced any opinion that there had been bri bery on the part of the Petitioner. Mr. HARVEY said, nothing had appeared before the Committee as to the Candidates having ref used to tender the bribery oath. Nor was there any thing of bribery proved against any but a few individuals; otherwise, if any thing had come out incidentally, they would have laid hold of it, to guide them in framing their Report. After a few words from Mr. P. Moons, Mr. Ho- WARD, Admiral SOUTHERN, and Mr. S. BOURNE, The SPEAKER said, that if any Honourable Member entertained an opinion, that on all occasions where the Committee had made a Special Report, the Writ had been delayed, it was a mistake. The Writ had never bete delayed but in cases where there was supposed to be sufficient reason for dis franchising the Borough. The Motion for adjourning the Debate was then 'agreed to. Mr. WYNNE suggested, that whatever might be the decision of the House on Monday, it would be equally necessary to have the minutes produced. He therefore moved that they be laid before the Hou i se. —Agreed to. • lIR BACH bP GRADY. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON assumed the House, it was with infinite pain that he presented himself to their notice. • He felt he had undesiaken a most dif ficult "task, and .he had to throw himself on the in dulgence of the House, and to pray that he might receive from all parties, if there were more than one party in that House, both protection and assistance. His situation was difficult, not because he was en om ,4s c n g : d ve i , n th a a wro t ft ng c hi a s ur, ftel but . b e e n c ee ause hmeiwghast not s are- he able to protect an injured sudividual, and support the gnity of the House. He begged leave to remind the House, that the decision s the propriety of which he meant to question, was come to ,on Wednesday, when theti was a thin House, and *hen some Mem bers, ' - decision they, 7 I it ( ii i