Star. — London, England, 1816-03-06 00:00:00

inner uguzs 'ax by rather ac op. as the the Ind Node Btr, , were ;irking, Ott los fiTA :e. He against ;aiust y to his hid re- a gred the a Tat twitted onesily ism tr- the ill itat)' l ot beel - hot r seal .sr „tree in * metre pitighle situation than that of 4i y i ton. Gentlemen snaje allow.ince for vie stat e of irri e , v w „, in. and.oardoned the incoherence of Nod , r ,!._( :fear, hear, and a laugh.) coATICELIOIt of the EXCHEQUER ' toi the time of the House was unneces : .r conversa tions, that could . lead to no 10 ;,, ro If, h o w e ver, he were - to give credit to that hid been made, that our other forceo ,,f tia nice were in a state of decay, he thought sa much the more reason for pressing the IhtJ'• v Tow. He objected to the mode in which , eisters had been conducted, both a Ai* upon r espect to the WA ) : and Means and the Supply, $30 41.1 uot understand how those, at whose sus. A m the Proert l'ax had been augented from In per ce p y nt. coul d now consistentl m y argue in e; a e t o it% continuance , mor e e sp eciall y on the t , o f trot the pledged faith of P arliament would r e by t‘e broken. 'The House Would recollect, that lot h(' first introduction of the measure by Mr. Pitt, 0%1: so far unlimited in its daratem to the continu v, of the war, that it was ac:tedly mortgaged by se Minister fur the paym nt of no less than 56 mil.' ea, which would unavoidably have prolonged it ste e,l the perind of the signature of Peace. After .I , eice d Amiens, when that debt, by the vigorous c ures of the Administration of Lord Sidinotith A t been redeemed, the tar was - continued during ill war, and o•e words "and no longer" were cer. tably added.--(thar, hear). —This expression, how err, could nocbc understood, nor did Lord Sidmouth pin end it, as fettering the future discretion of Par. relent: it only amounted to the exeression of an epnitotnt,which cirlumstances might alter, that it then 47 are a ex pedient that the Property Tax should ter :mate at the eoncltoion of the war. In 1896, the own was J aa ba o l by :he Administration of Lord (eroville; and ;he act ior that purpose also cootained oe proviso, that the Tax shouid continue during the sea u and no longer." This resolution, as in the f o rgoer instance, could not preclude Pell-meat from the exercise of its discretion ; and, indeed, a plan of )rote was at that time submitted to Parliament by the Marquis of Lansdowne, in which the prolonga. tiled the Property Tile seemed to b.: conteme!etud _( fkar , t ear ): it was then proposed, that a large so \ thouid be pi iced to the credit of the war taxes, asd the probability certainly was, that the war tad mkt SC adequate to meet the demand with. eat the aid of the Property Tax ; but, if necessary, it was to be resorted to, and tor that euroose hoc been continued for some years.—(llear, kear). The charges winch took place in the of the passing of the Dili, and tilt pteserted the ch3tge was met by the successors of the Noble Mar. qua, by a specific approorriti isfa portion of the war taxes. Doabtieu it had been the opinion of Mr. Pat, and of those who afterwards composed the Go. vertun.rt, that tne Property tax should not be refl. • dared ierinanent. This opinion was expressed in th. Actitsrlf ; but the House was aware that in the Bill which he (the Ciraocellor of the Exchequa) had in ondoce4 last year, it was said chat the property tax I shouid be continued during the war ; but the words Mend no longer" were omitted. (Hear.) Even had they been inserted as usual, he vino-oiled that it veld not be fairly urged that Parliament was con desirely bound by them ; but, not being these, even tint seeposed ground failed the opponents of the ( ensure. He was willing to admit that the tax %%is! &finally intended as a war tax, and as a war tax its nitnuance was now proposed. It was to defray a pation of the expenditure cf the W.if t and if Perlia rant in its wisdom should think fit to pledge it for a :eau' purpose, such as the payment of 12 millions el the unfunded debt. during the two years which it cis to last, his Majesty's Ministers would h a ve no objection to take it upon those terms. It appeared, der during the present ytar, at leat nine O r ten mil tan of extraordinary expense were to be provided al in the next year, though the burden was less, it vas still considerahle. The truth was, that the rges of the veer :tad been wound up ill a very sa. I lattory manner by the financial measures of the I g year ; but mtich yet remained to he ese • te, against shish no provision had -been, or could be made.— The House must he aware that in die r4i ' b hatte d for 25 years, teen had course of "at I I ti c a t i 7 y i s i t l e a m tine ; in that pod no revision 'je o n Veli a n a a l l had b een u ndertaken - ; that such 2 rev:. .1 was necessary, no man woulO deny. and it the Menlo: were prolonged for two yea•s w , !hin that Pwiad, it might be accomplished. If ^ m... "re were nevtived, the irregular "iiid e i latileretiittind wo u l d inu..t . continued , and 's be itripo,..tble. Triis was an addi. Land and a strong reason for continuing the property Lt; with it, rnn.iii might be done • without it, no- In the early part of the evening a petition had plaid on the table, praying sums modification of Property tat ; and that the House Ar A rbe ac. ':nted wi:ii die alterations p roposed by Govern ' -nt , in case the tax should be renewed, he would It state them.--( Hear. hear,hear.) Early in the • -ten he had stated, that for the relief of the coon ,!saly half the sum raised since 1807 would bat re-, id, and that it might be possible the furthtr re :tim of one million for the peculiar adv.;n: age .4f agricultural interest. He had since received many I elannicationsond the result was, that .fe thought 'grNter part should be given to th • e ten -..i —those persons who were included in Scile.ia,le To carry this object into effect, it was ie.:ended, jog the present and the ensuing year, ir,stead of acing the putts of the tenant at three-fourths of rent he paid, it should he calculated at coly one. 1 01 the annual value of the land.—(Hear, hear, •)—This modification was made in consequence We rapid decrease in the value of agricultural pro ; and the effect of it would be that . 1 e tenAL: 4 be entitled to all the exceptions that resultee therelluction in the calculation of his profits.-- t 4 1st:ince, a, person who occupied ii farm fif the an _ valwtof X6OO wcu ld b e suppose d to d er i v e only r iElo profit, and consequently at the rate of 6 per cent. (/ ‘ 4l only be called upon to contribute £lO. A s l r lat tenting a tatm of £4.50 per annum, would be ~.'ne . d to derive fro m i t a profit amounting to ' : 4 , and as £l5O per annum was the point at t ' li 'd the highest rate c ommence d, all those who k !_ e d Prufiis to. a less amount would have a claim tei4 4 .tement in proporti o n to the diminution of h nins- A farme r w h o p a id a re n t of £l5O for '► would be supposed only to make rights to 1 the amount of 450 a year, and would consequently be exempted altogether from any payment. When Gentlemen reflected in.vr many farms in Wales, and in s qr.; parts of England, were let at a rent below ABISO, they would see what an important relief this •arrangemenr would afford to the tenants of land.— (Hear, hear.)—The diminution in the amount to be raised by the Tax, he apprehended, would be greater than the sum be had mentioned' on a farmer day ; or, if it were, the trifling difference could be made up by a small increase of the other imposts.— Another important point with respect to the relief to be afForded, was, whether it could not be given by extending the period of payment ?—( Hear„hear.) From all the information procured front different parts of the country of the distresses existing, he was inclined to think that an immediate payment would be felt as a severe pressure : what delay should he allowed was a matter to, be considered in the Com mittee, should the bill reach that stage, where it would be fit to consider on the one hand the conse quence of the subject, and on the other the danger of ultimately losing the amount req'iired hum him. Ocher points connead with the agricultural interest would they also come under discussion. In the peti tions that had been presented, much complaint had been made against that part of the tax which re garded the returns delivered in by persons in traJe f but upon that part of the subject he could 014 SAY, that after the most anxious and patient invest;gation, he had not been able to discover any mode of evoidieg these returns by the parties. In that par ticular, therefore, he apprehended that, even were the Bill new-modelled, no relief could he afforded,— Upon this part of the question, however, much mis representation and misapprehension had gone forth : people in general were much deceived as to the pro portion of the burden that tell upon individuals in trade. It was asserted by many, that the great weight was sustained by the poor, and not by the rich; that great numbers wet:. compelled to pay an unfair pro. potion ; and that one-fourth of the persoas charged were of a very low description. To remove these erro neous notions k ,it was only necessary to ref2r to docu ments upon the table: by the abstract or the popula tion returns, it appeareel that 1,131,W0 I imili,,s wire employed in trade end in le , nditraft occupations. Of these only 266,ude had made returns under tire Pro perty 'I x A(!; a7id consequently, dime out of four of th e L i mil:-- ; , en eeepley e d had tea only never pai 1, but bad :.evei . .een called upon to pa y—( neer, hesr.) 01 these 166,000, no less than 1e9,000 t trnilies were exec otesf, Anv.ug ieturind that their incomes were less , e,.: £5O per annum ; and the number weich realie c. ntesuted to the Lc was, therefore,. reitieed , ..a leeeeet ; or, for the sake of round numbers, to ! 160,000. Of these families, I 21,0i)0 had made re turns of incomes to a less amount than 4150, and were consequently entitled to an abateinent ; and' only 41,0f4 had paid tin: incomes above 2E150; 32,000 returned a less SIMI than ,e:1,090 :.er il:,norn, 1 and :5.G92 above that amount. Th e , e f, cts , d erive d i from dlr. latest returns, proved, wilt 'ver ietquality mi,ot exist as to die proportions of it - Ay:duets, that it tras no: true that persons in trade had b;:en to" hd aily charged ; but ail these subjects could be itane saysfactorily lovesiigattd oa a future oreasvm ; and if any plan could be suggested by si - hich the assess ment eeeld be rendered less onero.is or mere equal,, he (the Chancellor of the ExA:equerj would he, among she first to hail with joy :etch an amend meat. Jill he d:sned was, that All ipplllarlity for inquiry should be afforded, and that the que lion should not be prt:;iidged.—(L'ao., hear, hear.) —li the measure we: e ti eilly rejecte.l, lie hoped it would he after delibteetion and argument, by obese acquainted with the details of the 81l and the fines shies of the country, and not by those elm refused to examine the.one, and were ignorant of the outer.— (II:3r, Lar.)--The petitioners woo entitled to 4teasl consideration, he WAS as willing as any a...l to x:lov.• ;., and be had listened t' their cenylaints with gicat at tention, though In two days he had been absent: one of those days he had devoted to .r...:cssary reerea• tii3n, after the fatigues of seyerli letig discussinna, and on the other he had come (lowa to posrvne some pthhe business, in conscq - a:nce ci the inuispoSition 'hisqt Net& Ftiseel, and, alter waiting half au hOltry had rf!:o2llej ,u - slie t 4 enjoy the serene of his family. lie :•ttste., .iseretore, that the House would not think that be had been negligent in his puelk duty. . . Mr. DARING thought -he : N igh t . be allowed to say a few words wnen Ministers cause d .4111 with papers in their hands to support their cause. He was gle 3 to find, fool the itataeneet of the Noble Loid, woo 'w:.s cf course the 'Ugliest authority, that the Tax was intended :01 Ast for two years only. The !tight Honnureble Gentleman who had hitherto withholden ti:?; inehenetion, bad also declared to-night that he merely a.ls'ied to plezlge that Tax for the reduction of twelve mullions of debt. Till' then, he had main- Wiled that tht country had no right to expect to be telleved,• since he had contrived to leave out slily the words. ~ no longer." He considered the two years selected by that Right Hanourable.Gunlemen, foe' die coatine ince of the Tax, with its insidious moli. fieetiens—(l/ear)—as precisely those what it would. - . erove rooq inconvenient and oppressive—( thee).— efe therefore concluded that either the Chancellor of the E. xcbequer was not sincere ma what he etle out, 1 or if he were, that .ies plan was most un wise, from the particular period of its execution. The Chancel. lot of the Exchequer had expressed his intention to I relieve persons under Schedule B. He understood the waning of this, but he hoped no countly Gen tleman under Schedule B would conseet to impose such au oppressive tax upon his fellow-subjects. To leave out a particular class, when all were suffering equally, was the most dishonest transaction ever pro. posed by a Minister ill this country, sitting in that House, as - they did, to deal justice and impartiality to all. He did aot see that the reduction of twelve millions out 46f a debt of SW millions or more, could are considered an object of sufficient importance to justify the revival of the Property Tax. ' Mr. ,KOSE thought. that the measure proposed by his Right Honourable Friend, would be most effi• cient. It was intended for the relict of those who had been represented as most in need of it, and yet it was now stigmatised as a most dishonest meesure.— ' He hoped the House 'would be of a different opinion. The Honourable Gentleman opposite had taken no notice of what had been said respecting the smaller shopkeepers; but, as to himself, he had been So s ais fied with that statement, that he hoped the document would be presented. and the fact be ascertaieed, Mr. WELLESLEY POLE defendeL! %Ts Noble Friend (Lord Castlereagh) for having eefered into the subject of the Property Tax laSt nigh:. He had been obliged to do kr, in order to follow and answer the speech of an Honourable Member (Mr. Banks) who had preceded him. He contended that the Measure was justified on a war principle, as it was always the case that the country was in a situation of war during the year that followed the chase ef a contest. It,was maid, that even if the Tax were ne cessary, this was the very worst time for reviving it. • l'hat might be, but the arrangement proposed by his Right Hon. Friend, to postpone payments, would yield very considerable relief. They did not intend to keep the Tax beyond two years; they only pledg• ed it for 12 millions, and should not press•for pay ment. He was astonishes' to hear it said it was dishonest to assist the agricultural interest, the por tion of the commueity who were suffering' most.— He thought he could perceive a considerable difference in the tone of the Gentlemen opposite. Thu, now considered this Tax as very proper for War,' though 'lt ought not to be borne in time of peace.—(Hear, Hear, Hear, from Me timimition.)- - - We:e those the Gentlemen who described that mea sure as unjust in its principle, odious, oppressive, ins morel, what no free country ought to submit- te,. a tax that charges the one and lets the other escape ? (licar. hear.) Did war so alter the "feelings of men and coestitaitioas of things, as to make the: just and proper which had been unprincipled and oppressive in time of peace ? And who were those who come plained so harshly of the measure ? the very men who had been the authors of its most obnoxious regula tions ! He had always heard, that the ingentoty of a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Tierney) had been employed to suggest mist 01 those regula tions. That Gentleman bad first oblected to it, but. that was when he sat on the side of the House which he now occupied : but he found afterseirds that it was very prop e, a n d not inquifitorial at all in time of seer. lie d:prec.;ted those discussiees on petitions to which nn objection was made, ;:s against the usual practice of Perliament, and iiiinecessery.— Ministers hid certainly receive.' a great dee] et 1 , ad vice ; they had been exhorted day ity day, and hour' by hoer, for the sole if :heir character and their ' credit, to abaedee tors measure; but he was not dis posed to take advice f. m an open enefay: The Gentlemen oppose e were their declared poliucal ene mies': they wished for their politics' destruction-- (Hear, hear, am i laughter)—and should their advice be followed? He suspected a setae 'in the grass, and weal object to takesuch advice. The Govern giant had a peirsliti. task to perform. It would be I their interest to lighten the burthens of th e people as far as it was possi'ule. But their i :ersonal fe lings mast not prevent the performance of their duty, and stoptbeir n: of such measu res as t h e y cons id ere d necessary for the safety of the country. Even the Gen tlemen opieuite welds' think them guilty of a base end cm.veidly condast, if they were to,abeadon the n_tastires which (!wy bed proposed, and which they tbotig best calculated to support the credit and Fieerve the prosperity of the nation. But they wonld not al) etdon them, and by them they wet:: determined to stand or.fall. Mr. TIERNEY had been charged with suggest ing vim,: of the most oeioas regulations of the l'ro. patty rm. hod sever suggested any but on*, and that was iii favour ut the bubject—that commer ci.il men viould pay into the Bank, without the sum lie , ng known. Everrtbis was not his own idea: he be.:a merely its channel. The Right Honourable C:r.tleman was the:aline completely tnishifot me.' on th.: occasion. Mr. W. Poi.e and Mr. BARING severally explained. Mr. W. WYNNE contended, that a measure could ect be more properly discussed than wh.nt Petitions wt re received praytag its abolition. He maintained, . tinit far from comp.lling the Noble Lord to enter upon thc Property Tax last night, the speech of his Honourable Fricud (Mr. Banks) did not contain a syllable on the subject. le was asked how they could (inject to the principle of a tax for which they had voted ? They had voted for it, because the nature of the contest in which the nation was then engaged re quited extraordinary exertions and measures to render th.)se exertions effective, which no other circum srat.ces could ju.ufy. He did not believe that the tax would be only wanted for two years; because he had heard similar promises made last year, and he n o w saw a desperate attempt made to break them. When it had proposed to make some modifica tions in the Tu►, on its renewal, he recollected well the Cbancellos of the Exchequer objecting that it was to last only for a yea:, and therefore that it was not worth while to make any alterations for so short a period. With respect to those modifications them selves, he did not approve of partial relief when all were suffering. But even should they be adopted, why should tenants have to p:sy taxes on rents which they could not pay ? The Chancellor of the Exche quer, in alluding t• Lord Lansdowne's plan of `finance, Had asserted that the continuation of the Property Tax beyond the war entered within the sphere of its execution. If he knew that to be the fact, of which be (Mr. Wynne) was totally ignorant, it would have been more Manly to have stated it openly, than to have arAted upon its possibility. Mr. HOME SUMNER objected to those prelimi nary discussions, which he considered unfair, as well as the motives for which they vverecreated.—(Order.) Mr. W. WYNNE put it to the Chair, whether sucl; an imputation of unfair motives was not con trary to order ? e KER stated, that he understood an im putation of nadir motives to be contrary to order. • Mr. HOME SUMNER explained, that he only meant to say, that it . WAS unfair to press discussions of this importance when tiierc was no question before the House. it would be proper for I‘.linisters to pro duce documents to expkiii. He then made a few observations on the propriety of relieving Agricul ture, the eistresi of which was the source of all other distress. He regretted that the measure of last year had not been adopted earlier, and concluded by in. qn,ring of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he intended to lay the Paper which he had produced befoie the House ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER believed that tae N yea in question was already be fore the House, but in so cci :pendinus a state, that it would be nearly useless, the substance should be extracted. As soon as that could is done, it would be laid qu the Ta lk. . . Mr. BROUGHAM wenn fain remind those Gen- Itlemen who sa id t h at i t was uniair to e n t e r oito die. cuasi sns of ti:;; n mire, of the use. 4 pr .ctice •ot 'hie House in such cases. When, in I Sl2. so many Ceti. tions had been laid before Part invent res :yet ez commercial diercss, inet:-.sd of lasting ten d r ) s„.l. in the present instance, the discussions occasioned by these petitions had eccupied nearly a mouth. Tee effect of this con.iuct, by 11111 Wing t:i ' petitioners that they were not neglected by their r..preseseati yes, WI only allayed the ferment, anti restored the tranqaillity of the public, but tended, as it did stow, and holes was it termed unfair, to render successful the opp si. tion to the odious measure then in qnestion, and to 'compel Ministers to -abandon the improper line of policy in whine they were at the time estgreed. The House were now told ef nindificatons in the Tex to rise revived ; but he warned the House a.id the coup. try not to be deceived by these mieko.atiens. The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite had observed significantly, that he would take the Tax oa those terms, and would p1..d, , e it ally for two rdrs. He believed that he w .old now be glad to rake it on any terms. To such a state were the ii .worable Gentlemen reduced, that they would go on tram mo dification to mod:fir:Alan, from the relief - ot one class to that of another. till nothing but the shadow of their measure watild remain. Bat he would be so unreasonable that :•.e would object to the very shado* as conrreeneatating a palpable breech of faith, con sidering tics t in that view one per cent. would be equally as unio . inc;plol as ten. Atli because as long as the ruaei.inery of the T was kept sip, and might be woond ta t ) apin, the .:‘) •:.r ws bald always be ex posed to its comp:ete restoretim the proinseness of expenditure would never be renuccd, aril ari hopes of economy would varseh. Let not those H motirable Gentlemen imagine that the rnoditicat, n proposed was considered as unfair to tenants. It was not tote. nails, but to the other an:re:in classes, that it was unfair. The osject was to sent the moults of the 'farmers. It was sAid that the town suffered because the country suffered, and that the relief of the latter I would sou extend its influence to the former. Bet could it be believed that the reduction in the tenant's law would produce such an effect? That relief itself would not evea extend suffidently far; for a man who should retein a firm} of sBl3O * year in his own hand, would lose the be.rndit of the ex Inp. lion, because the property would be his—(ftear).— But the Right Honourable Gentleman said he woull remove the charge on the yeomanry.: That would i improve the Tax a little more. Let him then g ,, on to landlords; their mouths once stopped, be, (Mr. Brougham) should feel eacouraged and should pro: ceed to claim relief for tradesmen. The Chancelior of the Exchequer would grant them relief, and she mouths of these being also stopped, he should begin to talk o professional men. whose incomes cease with their lite. He should urge the hards!iips of their case, the Chancellor of the Exchequer would also re. lieve•thern, and there would only remain the holders of funded property. He would obtain relief 'or them too, add the Tar would be gone. Such, he anticips. red, would 134 the course and tate of the measure pro posed. It was said, that it was to last only two years more ; but he implored those Gentlemen who never ranged themselves tinder the banners ut any vote —who had come forward in so manly and snirited a manner in behalf cf tire country, and in behalf of the Character of Parliamett itself, not to suffer them selves to be deceived by such pi oreises, because they had heard such pmmi.ses made before, and 11... w save an attempt to break them. Why should he believe the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who in • ISIS Insd said, the Tax was only for one year. and in ISI.I wanted it fur two more, without consent hig to add the words "no longer," lest, as that Right Ho nourable Gentleman said himself, they should lead to farther misrepresentations ? Hoof could that be it he meant what he said ? Ile once more warned the t House, that if the Tax was suffered to continue one minute longer than its time, it,would never be given up. It was too tempting a bait. It afforded the means of levying to. large a sum. By the decimal tura of the screw, it might be prised from £lOO to 14 millions. It poured forth a fund that should never be placed at thu disposal of extravagant Ministers and extravagant Princes. If its machinery were not at pre sent destroyed, the opportunity would be lost to the country for ever. Mr. BATHURST defended the measure :—Go vernment would certainly apply a remedy towards the farmers which cannot be applied to any other class • because there is no othe r c l ass w hi c h d eserves it. His Honourable Friend had laid down a great line of distinction for the relief of the yeoman as well 'as the farmer. The number of persons in trade, to whom the. hardship complained. of applied, bore, he Was happy to say, agvery small proportion to the number of persons who live b. trade in general.— He reprehended the reflections made by the Honour. able Gentleman (Mr. Ilmugham) upon the conduct and intentions of Ministets respecting this Tax, which were totally fallacious. He (Mr. Brougham) had only at last put it on its true footing, when he stated ft as Wtax ot necessity. It there was a necessity for it in time of war, it remained for Ministers to jus!'! y its necessity in time of peace. The Bill of the War might be said to be in a great measure unpaid, and the Tax was therefore necessary to provide for its discharge. It was the only mode that could be adopted to wind up the expenses of the war, without impairing the resources ot the country. Sir E. KNATCHBULL wished to know whether be understood the Chancellor right as to one-thiid in stead of three-fourths being inteaded to be imposed on the farmer ? He hoped these few words would close. the protracted dissuasion-.—(Laught er ,) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIHEQUER ! wished to answer the Honourable Baronet as concisely and clearly as possible. He bad very distinctly un derstood him. - The tenant's por t i on , i nstead of being valued at three-fourths of the rent, would be valued at only one-third of it, and would be further reduced under any circumstances where an abatement could fairly be made. In cases where farms were held at a less rent than 4450 a year, the scale of abatement would be diMinishea ; and landlords letting lands to others, would be entitled, as tenants, to the same relief as the tenants received. He had never held out that the whole Tax on farm -horse!' would be taken off ; but bad only stated treat the tax on horses ens. pioyed in agriculture would be in some degree re• lievcd. The proposition would be discussed at a i proper time; meanwhile he Weald state, that his •