Star. — London, England, 1804-03-01 00:00:00

titularly to Point oat, which, g dellroted, Woad be attended with very great lots. One or two of our principal magazines might have been fortified with. out any extraordinary expence. There were other flotations where fortification might be extremely ufeful ; not merely Martello towers, but batteries, which could neither be (piked nor taken. All this be pledged himfelf to prove, if Minifters would ap- point a day. He could call to the Dar of the Houle a eery refpetable Officer, who had not fisted his opi nion for the purpofe of criminating Government, but had fpoken in terms of regret, that had orders been given. the works he alluded to might many months ago have been conlirutted. Colonel Crati• ford concluded a (peed-. which occupied nearly two hours, with repeating his pledge to prove the truth of his affertions, whenever a time should be appoint ed for that particle. , General MAITLAND —l 4 There certainly has been [hewn a confiderable (hare of ingenuity by the lion. Officer who has jult addrelfed the Houfe. ;Whether his arguments have a tendency to the pub- sic good is another matter ; and I mutt certainly admit, that they have imprefTed my mind with very roow concern. That concern does not originate, wever, in the validity of the Hon Officer's reafon sag ; it arifes from my conviction that his opinions will not be confined within the walls of this Houfe ; I they will be diffufed otter the cotinu7, they will en- ter the country of the eisemy, and, In this point of iritu , , they are penticious, us proportion to their in. accuracy. The Hon. Gentleman has fpoken of the Volunteers. as if they were peculiar to this nation, as if we alone were info:led by this military furor, fo deftruftive, as he fuppofes, of the fecurity of the public. Does be not know, that in Fraae a por tion of the army is compokd of limn= troops? The Hon. Gentleman is not content with direamg his attack spina their irregular forces, but he teems ahnott equally diffatislied with the eonftitu timid Militia. There are, however, many individu als hi this Houle, who ho ld important commands in that fervice, and who even know the refpea with which it fhould at all times be regarded. Neither of the one or of the other do I entertain there fentiments ; I am convinced, if the foe thould dare ma:scrawl on arias ground, he will find that the hour of invafion will be fucceeded by another hour —the how of defeat and diflionour, by the gallantry of thole forces. of which the Hon. Officer forma to little expettatiou. He objects to the exemptions on the principle of impeding the recruits for the regu lar land force, and I prefume alfn for the Navy.— I may fafely declare, that I have beard no difficul ty ariftog from this caufe in the latter ; but in Tepee so the other fervice I confefs the Houfe is not fur lathed with materi als from which any corm el con elution may be drawn ; it retina, however, extremely improbable, that the danger of the ballots Ihould have driven numerous individuals into the volun teer duty, to relieve thenifelves from a rifle which, in the county with which I am bell acquainted, they could enfure againft, at the trifling premium of one guinea and a half. Onornus, indeed, are the duties on the Hon. Officer's fuppofirion, which he undertakes to avoid by this trilling facrifice. It is proper now to advert to what has fallen from the Hon. Gentleman on the difcipline of the Volunteers. nod truly all the objection I could collect is of a smolt fingular kind. Will it be credited that the Ceutleman confiders the great evil to be, that the Volunteers have learned too much. Notwithiland ing the attention I have paid to the fubjee, I never Lave been Able to comprehend what is meant by this armed peafintry, to which the Hon. Gentleman feints fo much attached. The plan recommended, I believe, by him, is, that immediately on the ene my's effecting a landing, the troops &Gold dart upon them like the lion to his prey. That the Volunteers may boldly march up to the attack, according to this defeription, is plaufible and probable ; but that the pep coritairts, the (meek frock pearantiy, the it regular bulb fighters, lhould do this, is nei,licr confißent with the nature of their fervice, or with any reafonable eipatation, A couple of campaigns might iiiftreft the armed peafantry in Come ufeful fervice, but at fire they woold be of fo Wee utility. that they would do as much execution againil the enemy with a whip as with a tirelock on their (boul ders ; and then, at leatl, they would not be in dan ger of doing mil - chief to their fticnds. I pettedly agree with the Hon. Member, that the principles of iodic, laid down in the work of General Donde, are rarely applicable to military duty in an enclated country ; but I ani yet to learn that if the Volun teers have been infleueed in ibefe principles, this ex cels of knowledge, in the bufinefs of their new pro feflion, will render them lets fit to perform the minor duties they are called upon to fulfil. Another objec tion the Honourable Gentleman has fla,ed to the cloathing, and forfooth becaufe their Volunteers are not incumbered with tur;nuts dragging at their heel., but arc doodad and prepared for every variety of (tabor; they are lets capable of being Milol in the field. The Hon. officer is much alarmed left the enemy, having defeated a corps of Volunteers,lbotild be led to conclude the troops of the line had given ground. Does the Hon. Gentleman there is no advantage in the (hew of number. ? Will it he no dircouragement to the enemy, if, having vanquiffied an army, day after day, another fhould Ran up, well clad and well difciplined, to fupport the caufe of their intuited country t The lion. Gentleman has Ipken with much commendation of the Volun teer in the battle of Jemapp: ; but this furely is di. teellY oppothe to the prominent feature of his own argument, unlcfs we can fuppofe that the Volunteers sdEngl an d are inferior to thole of France ; a con iat,ue I would not have the indecency for a moment to entertain. lam old enough to have teen a little of the Msock-frock war in the American rebellion ; end what was the contequence of their retorting to this defence t The vet v pealantry were furroonded aid taken priforers. How can it be rtati•nably ex peeled that tcythes and pitchforks can encounter the baronet. The Americans (non learnt the lefion their enthutiafm had nut taught them. and they formed t,giitar armies, under regular military diisipline, in ti-c c, mmencement very much rambling doge Vo lum.er•, of which the Hnn. Odiccr is li. Minters-- It a. , i:ri hale been w ell hail the Hon. Meniker con. fi.e .1 his attei.ii-m to the V ,imstecrs, but he has ad. sem: to the fyileni forti6cation, and it mud not p its • noticed. If tlik be defeftive. Minhlers ore r, t to mo. h tr. ',lame as t! e lion. Gentleman fr,rr. tv Itowi•ok. hays duns %hat It w,ui 4 , -• he isieembent on all men in their rogation to do, they have fought and obtained advice of able and experieneed officers, and what thefe have recom mended no doubt the former have adopted. This applies to the entrenched camp at Chelmsford. of which fn much has been obter ved. The Hon. officer has recommended military depots : two quetlions are to be confidered in that 'vitae& not only where they are to be fituated, but whether, under the prefent circumßances. they are at all expedient CoIoneICRAUFURD and General MAITLAND having exchanged a few words in explanation on the armed peafantry, t Atlnural BERKELEY rofe, and fpoke to the fol. lowing purport : I was brought up nodal. the Noble Lord who is now at the head of the Aril:trinity, and, from my gratitude towards him. and my reverence for his charafter, it is with great reludanee I deliver my fcntiments is oppofition to the conduit of that department over which he prefides. My pain on this occafion is, however, relieved by the neceffary abfence of the Noble Lord from the fcene of his public duty, which has oceafioned the butinefs to devote: on the juniors in that national eitabliihment, to whom the errors are to be attributed. There is not an officer in the Navy, from the higheft to the lowelt, who will not acknowledge, that the preparations are inade quate to meet the exigencies of the times. Oar coatis. tnftead of being in a refpeetable Rate of defence, in many points of importance are expofed and ;dun- I boned. There is as much refemblance between a Grit rate fhip and Noah's ark, as between the fyßem of defence that might have been adopted and that to which thefe Agents have retorted. I have heard' it faid s by a Lord of the Admiralty, that the enemy have nothing but filling boats. This petty craft turns nut to be &ft rater and 74 grin (hips, as nu merous as our own. &fides thefe, the French have 4 or seso gunboats, to which we have nothing to oppoft. What apology can be urged for this teen dalous neglect ? f thought myfelf extremely happy when I heard an Hon.. Friend of mine pledge him felf that this fubjecl ihould meet a folemn enquiry. It is not prudent to Ict the enemy land upon oilr coafts ; we Ilteuld have a naval force of every de. feription, competent to meet the foe on the ele tnent to which we are accultomed ; and the ncgleft of thefe means of ptoteeltion calls - for the feverell cenfure." Capt. MARICHAM.—What has been raid on the filbjett of the Naci,• ought to have been fubmitted to the attention of the Houle under an exprefs motion, indeed of being-thus knhandfomely intruded into this debate (Gen then sear a viekst cry of Order): I hear the words impedimentary language whifpered near me, but I mutt be permitted to exprefs myfelfftrong ly, when I feel fo acetcly the ()Nervations of the Hon. Admiral. The faculties of the -Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty are in their full ftrength and exercife, but how much advantage the Hon. Admiral may have derived from the early applica tion of thefe powers may not be fo eifily afeertamed he has, however, fo far trolled to his difeernment, as to attribute the blame of all the negleet he has complained of to the young perfons who have been principally aßive in the naval department. With regard to my own experience. I than think it decent to be Mem; but the fame referve will not be nicer fay in regard to my colleague. The fill voyage he performed was a fervice of no lets than twelve years in the Eatt Indies. I will not he In difrofpeNful to the Hon. Admiral, as to enquire of him in what ft tuation of foreign fervice lie has been engaged. The Hon. Admiral admits, I think, that in the prefent Rate of the coafk of Boulogne, forming one immenfe battery, it would be impoffible for our frigates to make any imprefrion, yet he teemed inclined to infi nuate, that the boats, in r...peet to which fo much negleft had been committed, might have made a con. fiderable impreffton on the enemy. This affertion to me appears wholly ineomprehenlible. It has been laid we ought to have a vail number of fmall boats to oppofe the fimilar craft of the enemy. Alifurd and ridiculous ! Gentlemen may (mile at the phrafes I employ, but aecuttomed to the hard duties of my profeftionlhave adopted the coarfenefs ofits language, fo unusual within thefe walls. If the Hon. Admiral be fo much attached to this craft crawling along the coati. and thinks fa highly of its utility, I have no d. nbt the Admiralty will be difpaleel to coincide with his wiates, and to give him a terponflble tom. *nand. The Honourable Colonel laid, guns were not ranged along the coati, and teemed to me to at tribute blame to the Naval Department for this omit Pion. Does not that Hon. Member know that this matter devolves on the Ordnance, and has no relation whatever to the former ? yet, when I point nut where the duty lies, I mull giblet we, that there appears to me no part of the public fervice performed with more promptitude and ability than that to which I am now referrang. Ido not with minutely to eater into the quellion how far the boats dclerve that confeonerre which has been attributed to then) ; but this I may aftirm, that it was impoifible to M the unreafonable expeetations of ceruin perfons; and that, bilked of there being any real obteelion on the gmund Come of them were fitted out within much expedition, particularly at Deal. that they were not properly provided, and the real utility was facrificed to expe dition. The Hon. Colonel fail further, that the rate of infurance was no indication of the aNivity in the Naval Department. beraufe Bonaparte had convert ed aU the privateers into gun boats, and hence he argued no tick of capture was inclined. Bonaparte did not poffels that discernment which I am dilpofed to attribute to him. if he brought theft privateers and their crews from any ufcful engagement fu long before he wanted them. to suite him in his projeN ut invasion. Tile teal laa is, he was chargeable with no Inch aR of impolicy ; t.o captures could be made beconfe the vigilance of the Admiralty had blocked up the force of the enemy. Hence stole that eon& dence in the rcercantiie intereil. to which 1 appeal, and hence that adsamageous rate °flamenco which I confider the bell criterion, by which an opinion of that vigilar c mat be formed. After a few words in explanation from Colonel Caswraan. Cr.lorel E If we hid nett adopted die Volunteer :•) ..e r, vh rh has been treated w to tone!: nom,. • • d con: .nict. it i. pr °bah), ;bar. At l• •',t6u'r ld have had the enemy in the he is t oi . . It hat been ailetted, 3. 1 '2t I , U , V :;!;11fC ••1 f) , C gloCia a.c 111 , 4 C C IC tiiateJ to makc • • :. v.iin in the ticli. Un Gentic• .i 4:1641 VOW JSC crittius.43nl I have fupplied the place of difelpline. We need, in confirmation of this, look no further back then lall war ;—ln 1793 the troops of Flanders were (upplied from the parochial levies; and there - troops made a Molt refpeaahle figure in the hour of battle. In June Li, ae are told, France had too,ooo troops, and vents to waft them over for the cleftrudion of thefe 'Sands ; and what has prevented not only this catafirophe, but every attempt to produce it? The vigour of our Councils, and the courage of our ar. mies, this vall holt prepared by the government for the day of tvial. I hope this Bill will devolve to the •invelligatim of the Committee, where thefe obferva lions world he more appropriate. If ell parties would join hand and heart. to fupport the govern• ment, indeed of endeavottring to drive the Kniiters from their fituations, the public fervice would be much morc ettenfively promoted. than we can flat ter ourfelves it will be, under the prefent ryttematic oppolltion." Sir WILLIAM YOUNG—u The Ad is pro. feffedly defigned not to interfere with the Bill which enables his Majzfli to exercife his prerogative with more effed for die organisation of the public force of the country. But are not all your aseafures of a tempor?ry kind ? and does not the Sate of the nation require a permanent eftablifinuent of public force ? The common law Foes further in confirming a power in the Royal l4rfon than that you are now promoting. Ninety thoufand Volunteers are railed under the Ad of the 42d of the King ; two hundred and forty-one thoufand under the Defence Ad ; fo that you have this immcnfe crowd terving, not as may be roof( convenient to the public fecurity, but on their own conditions. And wherefore have they entered into the military fitnation, but to relieve the parillies from the burthen and duty impaled upon them ? The confequence it, that the ballots have fallen on the married men, and to one of two difr culties thefe pet fons have been reduced. equally or preffive to the individual and to the country : they are confirained either to ferve and leave their fami lies to be maintained from the parochial fends ; or they have been thrown on the parifh by the money they have unavoidably expended in providing fob fiitutes. The Hon. Baronet entered into a great va riety of topics connefted with the legal fituatioa of the Volunteers, and contended that a fatal blow was given to the segular fervice by the exemptions which had been ro freely and imprudently granted." Mr. FULLER defended the general principle on vrhich the Volunteer Sy Rem was eltablilhed, and ex relied his forprife how any realiming man could prefer an armed pc:dainty to a body of men, who. whatever the fiate of the weather was, whether good or bad, expired th emfelves to ail the inconveniences and hardfhips of daily drilling. Although no prudent General could think of putting them into the line, yet they would not be without great utility. They would anfwer the purpofe of the rear army of referee, in cafe Ike' regular army of the country was defeated. There was alto another point inwhich they would be eairemely 'ireful. When the French fhould come, if they came at all. they would bring a fwarm of (harp thouters wuh them, which it would be necaary to orpote with troops of a fimilar defcription ; and to a warfare of that kind, the Volunteers, from their local knowledge, would be of incalculable fervice. He objeficd zo the Speaker's leaving the chair, on the grounds, that he could fce no neceffity fur any filch Bill. He approved of the demon in the-Court of King's Bench, and was apprehenfive that the prefent measure would only tend to excite fulpicior, in the Volunteers. Ile laniented that the Volunteers had been I: , metimes treated with unbecoming levity in that HJufe, and particularly by an Hon. Gentleman below him (Mr. Windham), wh•im he was proud to call his friend ; but who, as much as he admired his great a various talen:s, he feared was one of thole who Ihniied none than his judgment ripened into execution. With regard to Committees, he, for his part, knew of none ; butt if any did exist, he thought it adshable that they thnuld be tuff:: ed to continue, 4 lot he c•inld lint f4efee any 1111: . C111C1 that was likely, to veiult fioni their existence. Mr. FOX—" Sir, it was my intention to have rife:, immediately after the Hon. General, and a friend of mine, whom I do not now fee in hi, place,' for the papule of replying to fame Ole: ration, thrown out by an Hon. Gcniltman under the gallery, which, in my conception, amounts to nothing lifs than an open unqualified accufation againa the c,,untry. The Hon. Geinleman has ventured to , (late, that it was the objea of a refpeelable O. cer who preceded 11:m in the debate, to depreciate the,. Volunteers. I fillened with attetui:•ll to that enlight cited and intelligent Officer, and I call upon the Hon. Gentleman to point out unc argument, one I phrate, or one ward delivered by bim, in the courfc ' of his admirable fpeech, that will bear out the Hon. Gentleman in the aliertion he has had the !Alma's to nuke. The Hon. Gentleman deprecared the ex iltence of what he has been pleafed to call a party in this Houk, and calls upon all ranks, upon every de- fctiption of perfons, to unite and rally round the Ge vernmcnt. Unite. Sir I When, or upon what occa finn t has there ever appeared fu ;rale& and general an union in favour of the Governmnt ? Have not All rank*. have notall claire', from the peer to the pedant, have not men from all parties, even from parties who had no common principle of concord in any thing elk, come forward, and with a patriotitin worthy of Erflabmen, devoted thantel yes to the rapport of the Government of their country. I am not fond of fe. leaing a particolar inflance from among the numerous examples of patriotic virtue with which this nation Abounds. and elpecially as that inftance proceeds from a Nobleman with whole friendlhip I am ho. nouted, and who in the general line of political opi Mon proceeds with me. But when an Honourable Goldman talks of union. of an union del parties, I would call upon him only to direa his attention to one point : let him look to the North, there he would fee a Duke of Northumberland (fuch inflances of patriaifm thould.be mentioned. and mentioned to be honoured) clouting. equipping, and paying fifteen hundred men, with no sthillance from Government. but a bare fulliciency of arms ; what union then is wanted ? Is not all the virtue, is not all the talent, is not ail the fpirit and all the wealth ct the country trit;:ed in fupport c.f the Government In (upper% tit the Gown -nand. I lay, but not in fupport of the ; in fupport of a Government brought by the mifehief of their council, onto thole dangers and A; vrellenfions with which we are furrounded, and v tocl. ars fulcient to app..l the brasca of us. Has not their incamichy Atha 111104 which ;be ta lents of the greaten of their medeeeiffirs never could accurnplifh f This Hook. Sit, the coOntry!ll !Pr t shibits at this moment the extraordinari qtrfai of friends and firm of men of p•rties, veld' MO if no parties, united in fopport of Agit Government conduCted by an Ad • „As moll weak and incapable that ever Met the Were& of* gram State. Of union, SW. &if • it to fatiety; and I troeove Shall hear no nano chat plaints on that inkjet?. An Hon. General 110-1111 6 , marked wish confiderable freedom, pa the rpeeds • an Hon. Gentleman who fpoki_front 'this lillo the Honig. I own that I was much fil aw =l the tone and Manner in which be obfervations. The Hondbrable General. m i tt I underflood him, feemed to fay to my ble Friend, " This is no place for any tnalike." 4 .:, from you—this is no fubjec't On which you= re give an opinion, you a But a Simp le you mull leave matters of Such high import to be d& cuffed sod decided on by Major-Generals and Lice. tenant-Generals. Yon have not (efficient rank Co en title you to give an opinion." This is the tenor at what the Hon. General has laid, and I feel ittnebtrit. ficulty, I acknowledge, to reconcile it with his toadish on an occafion that occurred:on a former Parliament. I remember that the Hon. Gen. tßen a ample Major,' and freibfrom the Scene of aftion, criricifed with all din severity be is capable of the conduit of two General Officers (Generals Meadows and McCraw. I be. ' litre) for which he received a very revere haste in this Hoare -when I defended him as well as I emit, and ptecifely opon the fame principle that I noted*. fend my Honourable Friend. I wi11...t0 anderennil the llonoinable General—l with him to late plainly what he means. Does he mean to alert, that Opi nionsare not to be given by fulsalterws on fables that are within their comprehenfion and information ? Will be go the length of foring, that we are to de. bate nothing military in this Houle tor does the Ho. nourable General confider it as preheat to be Shiti becaufe an opinion delivered here may pollibly Ater from the opinions ur cc, rata pertaii'vrherwra chic hereafter ? The Honourable Genera hat el ea. vowed, with very little comers, in my opissloa, to combat in detail fome of din Statements contained in the luminous and comprehenfive Speech of my nourable Friend ; a Speech which, for Inikarytt 4 formation and argument. hat never bow nuoindwilies, this Hook, and for which. in my eflimatisikhr Inc I n ferves the thanks of every man in the country. VW . Hos. General, in oppofitirlb to my Hon. Friend, Lou laboured to fopport the principle of exemptions. In. • anfwer tolsim I would ark, why is the army defehive Why is there a deficiency in the Militia! The ballots are exhaufled, and why Beeaufe the principle at cxemptionlas (cartely left a man in the country that you have a right to call upon. This principle: to radically vicious, and fo fatal in its operation, wee never demanded by the Volunteers, far from it. It was " thrall upon them as it were." When the Vo lunteer Bill was paired lan rummer, the principle of exemption was fo little thought of or expeeed, that the Volunteers genii-ally entered into fuhfcripbono to indemnify each other aping the chance of being hallooed to Serve in the Militia, or the Army a Referee. But the AR upon this fubjca teemed to , have been framed with fiudied obfctirity, as if, to (peak lightly on rave winters, it were the object • of the makers to envelope it in inconfideori and cord - aims. Ig What does the ATTOLIIIIT eat think of this ? ! never mind him—let him alone, you Shall fee how we (ball puzzle him by and by!" Such, he prefumed, or frassathing like it, was the converfation of the enlightened frank ors of that Bill. Sir, in regulating the mutants of the Volunteer Fence, Ministers prneeededrubas an abfiird and fenfelefs principle. They limited if, 1 believe, to fix times the number of the Militia in the refpeEtive Counties. This, as a general principle, is faulty in the extreme. What, Sir, are you to affemble your Volunteer Porte in Kent and in Sultex, with the fame relative proportion to the Mi,itia that yru would in the counties of Staf ford and Warwick? I do not mean to depreciate the (pink or the fervices of the Volunteers, when I pea. fer an armed peafantry to them, numerous as they are. They are worfe than an armed peafantry, and why Beca , lie they are not Gs numerous. Yon have, as I am informed,foar Lomb?! theV;nielVolun• teen; whereas, if Government had done their duty, and given a true direetion to that ardent fpirit which pervaded the country, you would have hail two mil lions of armed peafants. I know that confidemble dick has been laid, and much expo :Ration formed, from the degree of difciphine the Volunteers have ob tained; but I fear, that if ever the occafion Should arife, it will be found ins tiny, as well as in other in. fiances, that a little learning is a dangerous thing.' There is a great proportion of them who have not had a moth tin their hands not it the loft five months an d a din greater, that have never yet fired with ball. cai ttiJise. Such men. Sir, men fo difciplined, if dif cipline it can be called, are not It to meet the exi gency of the moment. They have been taught to do what they Should not do; and have set been taught ro do, what they Should do. Whenever they (hall come into the field, they will find the [mattering of mili tary education they have had, of little, cm indeed of no ufe to them. So tardy has been the Government. that von were a long time expelled to intrafion. fore they had an opportunity afforded them of learn ing any thing. There was a deficiency of arms, it is laid If you had not arms, why not give them fano other weapon ? An Hon. General has Aid that pike. men are welds: for what purpofe then has Govern. n: • it iffued r.ne hundred thoutand Hand of pikes It is laid, by toe fly:l.4meg of this fyilent, that it was the apprehenflon of 1::2 Volunteers that pros vented the French from invading us lan June. What, from invading us in June; at which time we had none ! What did they flop Gel ! Oh, to give them an opportunity of getting dolled. I prefume. Really. Mr. Speak.r, 1. for one, thould not be lorry, that the enemy Should mend hi, complaifanee a little further. and wait usi• tSe Volunteers had become mike is difeipline t in that case. I Should not be very uneafy at the profped of immediate loyal - ion, Now. when I (peak of the advsmiapes of an armed peafentry, I would tense* tit le Gentlemen who treat with contempt that (penes of force, to confider what has been atchicved by is irel.a Vender. in Anse.. rica. and in Switzerland, and the United States of Holland. at the forindailow of their liberties. From all that I have ciiiisi2cd ay* ',num umiak. itimb