Star. — London, England, 1819-02-09 00:00:00

Lord i cirame l .ear s • ub t he sa . e2 dy re It s of I roio e ' l i ft the lab f▪ orty' cl norny rid ever v ary, fO ce , le gs* tr. the 1 r wl itt r!clre tome: -r,atior seceder sam ?lercecl g et Le z mit 41 , alw , rs rltvi al:t; ;;;;:ndii an :le. 1 :e dilre Hot :tied 1. nt, it 3nornri t/ That tl :nr.try .e sth hile '1468, npror airy, , erty rifles ast, al wind , mount Amur a lava tm gr t: k ;4 Tusi :::et pr 4 co it she did nc ecles there derabi titles articit crease tides of the the f woul for tt and t learn fount the yi po trz thCOr. r. on t cst, zilli c:icte Prest ras nedu t• Jt3 te l t to iv l3 goal Zan' firm alre con was I.ts t ca r •;,1 tor, Our r ,, clat jec co; r as out z 9 V FTYINCE. Lord CASTLEREAGiI rose to propose the ap. „ O i n tment of a Committe e of Finance for the p resent ' trod Though he was then about to propose the ap - F` .m i o o rent of a Finance Committee, he did not think d be nec essary, he said, to appoint one the ear su b s equent to the presert, if our affairs went on Much good had al ,the same prosperous :2 ,4 resulte d train. i from the Reports of former Commit ,o o f the same descript ion with that about to be pos ed at present. The principal thing to be looked l in the a p pointment of such . Committees was, that , eir labours must arford considerable light in carry forward the g reat business of rettenchment and on • onl y ; and though much had been already done, 4 eve n of late. for reducing the burdens of the ware , vet it was necessary that the inquiries of the Fa ce Committee should be continued until the ex esf the Government were brought within the c o He would remind the House of the country. . . tohesituation of the Empire at present was sum . 9 w hat was experienced at the end of the Ame -r; cm For nearly three years after that period, •nreiditure was found considerably to exceed the or He; so that our financial situation since the ter .ration of the late war, was not of that novel or un tedented kind that ought to excite either gloom jeFrondency. The reasons, which led to the ap. ; itin ent of the Committee of Finance last year, were same with those by which Government were in erced in wishing for its re-appointment at present. Ile must inform the House, that even already the at desideratum which was aimed at in all the ors of the Committee had been accomplished; it rould appear, from the statements which he ala4t to submit to the House, not only that our .:ndieure was within our income, but that there an actual surplus of income over the expendi -e. This could not be made quite certain until different accounts were laid on the table ; and House was aware, that these could not be ex :ted before the end of the year. Until then, there c, it would be impossible, so far as the details were learned, to enter into a close comparison of the penditure of the present year, as contrasted with Lose that preceded it. But in a general way, he atlel give the House a few statements on the subject. ;bat then, it might be asked, was the income of the ;vary at the end of the year, which terminated on sth of last January ? It amounted to 54,630,000/. file on the sth of January, 1818, it was only ~668,010/. thus giving a considerable increase and iprovement. But in the account of the sth of Ja. airy, 1818, there were included arrears of the pro. qty tax to the amount of 9,300,000/. whereas the fears of the property tax, on the .sth of January ast, amounted to no more than 565,000/. Sub. I,:ting these arrears from the gross income, it (Ad appear that the clear receipts in January, 1818, nounted to 49,334,000/. whereas, on the sth of last theclear receipts rose so high as 53,497,0001. eviag a balance of no less a sum than 4,163,0001. ifavoar of the last year. This certainly was a great important improvement. But the balance was :11greater, as a sum of about 600,0001. arising .:rn Duties on sugar in 1818, ought to be subtracted can the income of that year, and added to that of se rear 1319. This would raise that income to the 451,097,000/. and would reduce that of the :ar ending on the sth January,lBlB, to 48,734,0004. ftus it would appear that the surplus of the present le:r over the preceding would amount to 5,363,000/. Ler these statements, he would ask, could they have :::e encouraging prospects? For.did not this sur :, of neatly five millions aad a half in favour of present year, entitle him to call the prospects of country most flattering and encouraging ? But ;e should not do his duty fully to the House if he did not inform them, that there were only two ar cles is the entire range of the revenues on which there was not in favour of the present year, a consi derable increase; and the produce of these two ar ticles amounted only to 13,0001. On all the other articles there was a considerable and a progressive in crease. The increase in the present year on the ar ticles of brick and tiles, alone afforded the best proof of the increasing prosperity of the country. From the former Reports of the Finance Committee, it would appear that they estimated the expenditure for the year ending January 5, 1818, at 51,087,000 1 . and the income for the same year, at 52,500,0001.; leaving a balance in favour of the income of about fourteen hundred thousand pounds. The income of the year 1819 they estimated at 52,500,000/. whereas, point of fact, it would appear, from the statements he had already made, that the real amount of that Income exceeded, by more than one million and a the calculations and estimates of the Finance 1 -ammit.ee. But h erea f ter i t wou ld b e ma d e znani t!st, he was persuaded, that the financial situation of t't country was not only better, by more than one billion and a half, than the Committee had pre c'k'ted, but that there would be, at the end of the Present year, that is, i n J anuar y, 1820, an actua l sur . .3s of income over expenditure, applicable to the reduction of the debts of the country, of no less a `act than 3,558,000/. H e wou ld not, h owever, con teat himself with this statement of the prospects of Vie present year from the receipts of the last, but elate' inform the House even so far as we had $O .e into the p resent year , name l y, f rom t h e s t h o f .anuary to the sth of February, that experience con. armed the flattering prospects to which he had already alluded. On the first month of the present, compared with the first month of the last year, there 'vas an increase of from between 300 to 350,0001. —And it ought to be borne in mind, that even in the ha year, the first month was a month of increase, thropared with the corresponding month of the pre year What then wa s o ur p resen t fi nanc i a l ' • lon ? Why it would appear, not only that "Jr expenditure was brought within our income, but f,at there was an actual surplus of about three mil b.ns and a halt; which was disposable for the liqui elation of our debts. Thus, then, had the: great ob ieet of the Finance Committee, namely, the bring of our expe n di ture w i t hi n our income ,' been more ttan realized, as much more than this had been ac c3'nigished, when so large a surplus as that already s. .. 11 e 4, remained after th e p a y ment o f a ll t h e expenses ant : the country. Such, then, were the bright hopes prospects that sprung up before us ; and he was `"re th at they must be contemplated with greater z=far a nce aad satisfaction, when we considered the great solidity of cur resources, and the manly cha- ratter of the indestry of the country. Nor would these prospects, he was persuaded, be temporary, as he hoped that every .successive year would be marked by increasing improvements. The Noble Lord pro ceeded, in the next place, to give a short outline of the different reductions that had lately taken place, previously to entering upon which, he stated, that it would not be necessary to impose any new taxes in the course of the present year. From the reductions that had taken place, he trusted that the Right Ho nourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Tierney) would see, in the matter of economy, that he and his Ma jesty's Ministers had profited by the advice which he (Mr. Tierney) had given them last year. For his own part, he was unwilling to quarrel with the Right Honourable Gentleman on the subject, but would be ever ready to take all the advice he could from him. They were blamed last year for not going more extensively into economy ; but the Go vernment could not then have prudently econo mised more than th ey did, considering how they were circumstanced both at home and abroad.— The expenses of the Army for the present year, were formerly estimated by the Finance Committee to be £8,967,000. Besides this, there was for Officers on Half-pay, &c. a sum of about £300,000. But, after all, it would appear, that, even exclusive of this last sum, there would be, if the Report of the Finance Committee was compared with the actual reductions, a saving of no less than £567,000 on the Army alone, for the present year. In the Navy, the actual saving would be £lOO,OOO, and £lOO,OOO also for the Ord. stance; so that in the three services, the actual saving would amount to £767,000. Owing, however, to the distance from home, at which some Regiments were placed, and to other circumstances, some tem porary expenses were unavoidable, as Regiments could xot be always immediately reduced. These expenses, in the present year, would amount to about £330,000, but next year would be wholly unneces sary. The expenses of this description, last year, amounted to a much more considerable sum, for they went so high as a sum of about £740,000. With re gard to the reductions, in point of men, he would state them at 22,120 rank and file of the Army in France, and 9,122 rank and file of the Army at home, making a total reduction of 31,20 rank and file. Were Officers included, it would amount to about 35,000 altogether. The reductions in the Ordnance were 2,020. The total expense of the Army, Navy, and Ordnance for the present year, was estimated by the Finance Committeeat £16,237,000. Out of this. four millions would be saved by the reductions. The direct expense would be only about twelve millions. There were, however, pensions amounting to about £4,300,000 ; but of these, it may be calculated, that about £130,000 would fall in annually. From these statements, the Noble Lord proceeded to remark, that there was a principle of powerful elasticity in the resources of the country, which was gradually and vigorously rising into action, in spite of the pressure of all our former burdens. This was par ticularly evident in the improving commercial con dition of the Empire at present, as might be seen by the state or our exports and imports. In fact, this was the greatest year of British commerce, for it far exceeded all those on record, even the great year of 1815. The amount of our exports, from January to October, in 181 i, was £35,231,000. In 1816, for the same period, it amounted to upwards of twenty- , eight millions. In 1817, to £32,000,000 ; and in ' 1818, to £33,325,000. From the promises of the early part of the present year, there could be no doubt but that the amount would exceed any of the preceding. These prospects, surely, ought to dis pel gloom, but not to prevent exertion. After a few remarks on proper economy, the Noble Lord said, that he should now propose the re-appointment of the Finance Committee of last year. As two Mem bers of that Committee were not in the present Par liament, he should substitute the name of Mr. John Smith, for that of Mr. Smith, of Oxford; and the name of Sir George Hill, for that of Sir Thomas Ackland. This Committee, he trusted, would wind up the business of these Financial Reports, from which the House had derived so much assistance in their proceedings ; and, he was sure, from their ta lents and experience, that they would stamp on their Reports, all the prominent features of our financial condition. He concluded by proposing the appoint ment of a Committee, to inquire into and state the Income and Expenditure of the United Kingdom for the year, ended on the sth of January, 1819, and also to state the probable Income and Expenditure (so far as the same can now be estimated), for the year end. ing on the sth of January, 1820, and to report the same, together with their observations thereon ; and also to consider what further measures may be adopted for the relief of the country, from any part of the said Expenditure, without detriment to the public service. On the Motion being read by the SPEAKER, Mr. TIERNEY rose and said, that he was wholly taken by, surprize by the Noble Lord, who had, con trary to all expectations, opened a Budget, instead of moving for the appointment of a Financial Com mittee in the usual manner—(Hear, hear.)—He could hardly believe, that this was to be the last occasion, as hinted by the Noble Lord, on which this Commit tee should be appoibted. He expressed his satisfac tion at hearing that Ministers thought proper to adopt any of his suggestions ; but he might ask, if they were not the suggestions of the Government it self, inasmuch as they appeared on the face of former Reports. The Committee, however, at present, will have to make not a mere dry Report of Finance, but also to enter into the details of economy. The state ments of the Noble Lord were merely those of a pro bable revenue. He had been giving the House the Budget by anticipation—(Hear, hear.)--In fact, the Noble Lord anticipated even the Report of the Com mittee, who would be ready in a few weeks te re-echo back in black and white the entire substance of the Noble Lord's speech—(Cries Herr, hear.)— He was not nom able to meet the Noble Lord, armed as he was with accounts and figures on the commer cial state of the country ; but he would tell the Horte. that all the Merchants with whom he had conversed, and they were not merely of his side of that House,, were of a very different opinion. An over-issue of pa per money had rendered capital very plentiful, and labour very cheap ; but be could not see that great commercial prosperity for which this year was to rank above all those we ever knew. He had no doubt, however, but that the Committee would, in their Report, re-echo back this greet and unequalled prosperitt Of our trade and coMMerce--(kear, .tar): lie was but a practical man, and was disposed .tar): much to differ from theorists on the subject. He was, how ever, ready to adMit that there had been a consider able improvement in the Revenue. This, however, was an event that was. looked for, as it was stated in one of the Finance Committee's Reports. The real improvement this year, had been stated by the Noble Lord at £3,500 , 000, hich, he said, would be avail- able for the reduction of the National Debt. But he feared the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exche quer, when he came to inquire into it, would find no mole than £2,400,000 fairly available for the Sink ing Fund. It appeared rather strange that the Noble Lard said • nothing about the Sinking Fund. From the inquiries he had made, and the statements which he saw, he was of opinion that the surplus of the Consolidated Fund would amount to no more than about £214,000. So late as the sth of last January, there w•as an old debt of £3,300,000 on the Co:isoli- dated Fund. This debt surely must be paid off be fore it Was fair for us to indulge in all those sisions of prosperity, with which the Noble Lord had that evening been delighting the House, and which, he was afraid, would not be hereafter realized. This year we must have an improvement of about, at least, two millions above the Eve millions stated by the Noble Lord, before the income and the expendi ture of the country can be expected to correspond, in January, 1820. This year, therefore, there can be no surplus of the Consolidated Fund. The Land and Malt Taxes, making about i.:3,000,009, and some others added to these making a total of about £7,000,000, were all that he knew to he available _ _ for the year. lie might ask, as the Noble Lord wished to slur it over silence, what had become of the million, which we had been so often promiseil from Prance ?—(//ccr, hc:zr,/-111 was sorry the Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) wets silent, and made no sign.— The Noble Lord had said, that he and his colleagues profited by his (Mr. Tie:ney's) ad: ice ; but he would tell him, that they profited by the advice of the Ge neral Election ; for the Electors of Great Britain, from one end of the kingdom to the other, spoke a language not to be misunderstood, and countersigned the advices he had given. —(Hear, hear.)—Last year the Noble Lord, though mach pressed, would not consent to reduce 5000 men ; but this year he comes forward with a voluntary reduction of 9000, besides the reductions in our army in France. This was the magic of the General Election, that great and effi cient adviser of Ministers.—(Hear, hear.) By the saving then in the army being stated at sit hundred thousand pounds, and the other reductions at four hundred thousand, the general aggregate amounted to one million sterling. Now, this being taken for granted, it must be still remembered, that out of twenty-one millions of expenditure, there remained I to be provided the sum of twenty millions ; and it was now confessed, that by the Noble Lord's own ,shewing, there was no more than seven millions pre I pared to meet this. From all these calculations, how ever, the Sinking Fund, .by a singular process, was exempted. Did the Noble Lord mean to say, he was not to provide for the thirteen millions that remained 'of the expenditure? and did he now mean to say, that the provision for the Sinking Fund was to be made up by a single million of reauclion ?—(Hear,hear.)— , The effect 9f the Noble Lord's argument was nothing More than a delusion ; and it was to be regretted, that he was but too much countenanced in his state ments by the House. flow could the Noble Lord have attempted to tell the House and the country, that the revenue of the country exceeded, or was equal to, the expenditure? The amount of your in come, said he, was so much, and the amount of your disbursement was so much, leaving the little item of fourteen millions and a half of Sinking Fund all the time in a parenthesis, as a matter quite unnecessary to be looked at. He did not mean to undervalue the uses and effect of the Sinking Fund. There was not in the country a more zealous and persevering friend to that Fund than he (Mr. Tierney) had uniformly been. He had hitherto avoided making any obser vation upon the part of the Finance System connec ted with that Fund, as he was willing not to interfere with the Administration in whatever measures they thought fit to adopt, but he would now speak out— (Hear, hear, hear.) He would say, it was a subject of wonder to him that the Noble Lord could have talked about the flourishing state of the country, when, by his own statement, he acknowledged that it was necessary at this moment to borrow a sum of thirteen millions for the current expenditure—(hear.) The Sinking Fund was to be provided for besides,' and the Chancellor of the Exchequer had it in con templation to ask a vote of twenty-four millions of Exchequer Bills, to provide for those that remained outstanding. It was now time for the House to de mand that some definite arrangement should be made upon the Finance Department. In vain did the Noble Lord exert himself to exhibit statements, the effect of which was solely to delude the country into a false idea of its prosperity. The country was actually in a frightful condition--(Hear, hear.) ' The I louse had a formidable task before it. The public creditor was to be satisfied, and what was the preparation made for the purpose? Truly, did the Noble Lord say, when he talked of the prosperous appearances of the country, that the world would be astonished at us.— Mankind surely must wonder at the condition to which we should be reduced, if the present system of things was to be persevered in —(bear, hear.) If, the Noble Lord or his colleagues couhi have secured to us the continuance of peace for ten or fifteen years to come, then, indeed, might the principles of the Finance System, as now acted on, have had some apology. But neither the country nor the Ministers could work wonders. Come a war in one or two years, and there was no word in the language could come near a just expression of what the state of the country inevitably would be—(hear, hear, hear.) —As to think of obtaining money by loan, from. merchants here or anywhere else, why the. Minister might as well haie thought of raising the dead to life, as of raising . a single guinea in this manner— (Hear, hear).—ft signified nothing that flourishing speeches were made about commerce, and trade, and revenue, and so forth. Ministers did nothing but talk. When economy was mentioned before them, then they were all anxiety, all readiness for economy. When the Bank Restriction Act came before them, the; had sainething else to . employ their eulogies on. not they would :never,what the/ clight_ o4l ° , come forward in:arair 4 candid,manner, and meet the real question. The Noble Lord said, that 12 millions of Exchequer Bills were to be provided for the ensuing year. There were also 21. milliorr; to be provided fin outstanding Exchequer Bills. To provide Exchequer Bills to pay off Exchequer Bills, was reasonable enough, while was was crippling the resources of the country, but it was no very certain indication of prosperity, that the same system should continue in a time of profound peace—( Hear, hear). It was a millstone about the neck of the country, and ought to be removed, at least before its prosperity was boasted of—( Hear, hear.)—He trusted the House would see the consequences into which it was plung ing the country by acceding to the continuance of Exchequer Bills, and that it would give to the sub ject the fullest consideration, before the vote for twenty-four milli:ins should be effected. There were now no less than forty-four millions of Exchequer Bills, he beliaved, outstanding—(Hear, hear.) There were £ 1,100,000 in Exchequer Bills voted for Churches last year. There were 12 millions of Ex chequer Bills to be rrovided for the expenditure of the country, and where was the Exchequer Bill sys tem to stop ? Parliament might as well erect a pa per-mill in one corner of the House, set it a going, and then take measures to arrest its career, as to think of putting a stop to the course of the Riga Honourable Gentleman opposite in his system of Exchequer Bills—(Hear, hear, hear, and laughter.) He did not allude to the Chancellor of the Exchequer personally. The Right Honourable person, he be. licved, was, to all intents and purposes, the most faithful mouth-piece of a besotted Administration; and if any disgrace was to result from the measures adopted by him in his official capacity, they ought, in justice, to fall on the combined wisdom of that body whose organ he vvas—(Hear, hear, and laughter). What was the substantial case of the country, • di vested from the fallacious representations of the No ble Lord ? The dispute was not about onr improve ments in this or that branch, but whether we were now within 13 millions of making the two ends meet. But it was come to this, that Nlinisters should do something about the Sinking Fund. This was the fourth year of peace, and, in all justice, the conotty had a right to demand some effectual alleviation of its burdens—(Hear, hear). The Noble Lord came forward with his statement, exhibiting an unexam pled state of public prosperity ; and this, he said, was all the work of the Finance Committee. But what had the Committee to do with it ? They had no- • thing more to do, they could do nothing more, titan merely set down the numbers and figures prescribed for them by the Treasury; and this was the extraordi nary share they had in promoting the prosperity of the country. The House had a right to ask for what were the people taxed? It was an insult tothe people to ask them for their contribution of 14 millions a year, not to pay a debt—for it could do no more than relieve a few millions' of that debt at most—but to support a system of which other people profit, and are ready to take advantage.—(Hear, hear.) He understood that the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had, at the commencement of the Session, declared he should not find it necessary to make any loan for the expenditure of the ensuing year. He regretted he had not been in the House the rime when this declaration was made. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. He had stated that the revenue of the country had been more than equal to as expenditure, and in saying this, he had not by any means an inclination to delude Parlia ment by suppressing the Sinking Fund. The ex penditure of the country, properly speaking, did not embrace this Fund, inasmuch as it was an entailed expense arising out of circumstances which no Minis ter could controul. The Right lion. Gentleman, therefore, was not entitled to attribute to him any its-. tension of delusiq . a. Mr. TIERNI did not mean to attribute a pur pose of delusion to the Noble Lord ; hut he certainly believed that a wrong, a very wrong impression, would follow from the argument of the Noble Lord. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rote to vindicate the Finance Committee from the effects of the Right Honourable Gentleman's implications. That Body was entitled in an eminent degree to the respect and gratitude of the country. In the course of their important labours, they aimed a! an effectual reduction in every department, and applied their united talents and expetience to their task. In the second year of their labours, they went again over the same ground as on the former occasion, conti nuing in the same vigorous course of prompt and decisive exertion, and pointing out from day tcf day; for the consideration of his Majesty's Minitters, thine departments of the public establishment where they believed a measure of economy would be required. Without detracting from the [noise due to the Mem bers of the Government for the great reduction which had taken place in our general expenditure, he was sure the I louse would see much was due by the Public to the Committee on the occasion.— He would not then go into the detail of what they had done ; hut at least they had proved, even, he hoped, to the satisfaction of the Right Hon. Gentle man, that they were fully determined to promote economy. There were some points, no doubt, which the Right Hon. Gentleman had called to the conside ration of the House, in which he had merely anticipa ted the Committee—(Hear.)—The House might be assured that this Committee had turned their :men. tion more particularly to the collection of the taxes. (Hear, hear.)-11is Noble Friend (Lord Castlereagh) in proceeding with the expositions of the Committee's statement, said that the total amount of the revenae had improved from 52 millions to 54. millions duo ing the last and the present year. The Right Ho nourable Gentleman opposite seeing that this ac count was too favourable, had taken quite another view of the affair, and seemed willing to produce an impression contrary to what ought to be the re sult of a fair and liberal view of it—(Hear, At the time of the consolidation ef the Funded Debt of Ireland with that of. Great Britain, the revenue of the latter of course was affected very unfa. vourably. However, it would be seen that a cons!. derable reduction had taken place in the Consoli dated Funded Debt of both. It was stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, that the whole amount of our expenditure, including the Funded Debt, was beyond our revenue. The Right Hot. Gentleman knew that to have reduced, or kept down this enormous charge, it vi,uUld have been messes, to continue. the war taxes in all their rigour. But two I ;? -4 1