Star. — London, England, 1811-07-16 00:00:00

could not pay their rent in gold, who would take' then) afterwards ? He would find no tenants—none would live under such a landlord. Such would be the effect of persevering in his notice. As to the Bail he disapproved of it in every point of view.— It in his estimation would have the effect of telling the people that the notes were depreciated, and that the Bank Directors could not demand twenty shil lings for every one of their pound notes, except Parliament passed a bill for the purpose. The Bill caight never to have been introduced; the corpo rate body of the Bank ought never to have been so far identified with the Government, as each would be with the other by the Bill before them. It' crnnected the Bank with the Government, and sub jected the stability of the one to be affected by all the revolutions and changes of the other. It too would weaken the confidence of the people in the Bank. The Government too might be most serious. ly affected by such a connexion. If the Bank had net assets to meet the demands, how were they to be satisfied ? if the Government continued the sol vent branch, in the event of the Bank becoming in solvent, the solvent branch would be called upon. T:ierefore, he contended, the Government might be most materially and vitally affected by such an identification. As to the effect of the Bill, more injury had been done by the introduction of it, and the consequent discussion, than could possibly be done had all the landlords in the country issued notices si• miler to that of Lord King, and even had those no tices been persevered in, to the utmost possible extre mity. The notices, he repeated, would have had, comparatively speaking, no effect—it was physically impossible to carry them into execution. The Bill was wholly unnecessary and uncalled for. As to the delays of justice that had been supposed, they were absurd in the extreme ; and if they deserved any se rious notice, he should pronounce the observations to be grossly libelious on the Administration of the jus tice of these realms. The Bill was injudicious and impolitic The Ministers, in effect, told them that by that Bill they wanted to uphold the Bank-notes. The Pub'ic had at present confidence in the Bank, but if it were to be connected with Government, that was the only thing which would bring its credit into jeopardy. If they would ostensibly mate Bank-notes legal tender, then indeed might they be justly cern pared to the assignatt of which they had heard so much. For the reasons which he had thus snortly expressed he disapproved the Bill ; and he conjured Ministers to pause awhile and look at the consequences that must inevitably result froth the Bill then the sub ject of discussion. Mr. ROSE could noo help expressing his astonish ment at the assertion which had been made by an Honourable Gentleman who had spoken at so much length in an early part of the debate (Mr. Brougham) that the first principle of the Bull then before the House would lead to the most pernicious consequences to the country. So far was he from agreeing with this po sition, that he felt himself bound, atter a lair review of all the circumstances which had led to the intro duction of the measure, to consider its first principle to be a source of protection to the tenantry against the harshness and injustice of their landlords—(Hear, near.) —The Hon. Gentleman had proposed as a means of supplying the deficiency of gold to send to America, or to the Spanish and Portuguese settle. traents, a more extravagant or more unaccountable proposition than which he could scarcely have ima gined. Could the Hon. Gentleman be ignorant of the fact, that those countries were already overbur thened with English manufactures ? or did he mean to insinuate, that it would be proper to send out ves sels to take that by force which the state of com merce could not spontaneously produce ? But, even admitting the possibility of attaining gold by such means, he would ask, whether it were likely, sup posing five thousand tons were brought into the country and coined into money, that that coin would remain in circulation while the value of gold was 20s. per ounce above the mint price ? It would be mon strous for one instant to entertain such an opinion, and it must be evident to every Gentleman who took the trouble to think at all, that such money would be melted down as fast as it was issued.— (Hear, hear.) There was not in truth one single feasible or practicable measure proposed, which could, by any possible means, supply the deficiency in the gold circulation. Under these circumstances he could not see how the Bank was to revert to cash payments; and until some means was devised of getting gold into the country, which could only be done by a total change in the policy of the Continent, he thought the only method that was left for the pre servation of the credit of the nation, was the conti nuance of the Bank restriction. (Near, hear.) Some allusion had been made in the course of discussion to an expression which had fallen from a Right Ho nourable Friend of his (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) as to the expediency of employing even the " chicanery of the law," to avert the consequen ces of such a course as that which had been taken by the Noble Lord (King) towards his tenan try, and some strong comments had been made on this insinuation. Reluctant as he was,, however, to approve of the chicanery of the law under any cir cumstances, he could not help thinking, tldat in a case where the tenant thus became exposed to the wanton oppression of his landlord, if the chicanery was at all admissible, it would be on such occasions, and how ever unjustifiable in ordinary cases, it would then be come excusable to use every subterfuge which the law would allow to evade an exaction so extremely severe. With respect to the French astignat and the Bank of England note, which were pronounced almost syno • nimous terms, he begged leave to say, that nothing could be more opposite or so distant in their nature. The former was issued by public authority, and to any amount which the exigencies of the State might require, while the latter was limited to a certain sum, and issued only on good mercantile security, or by „ loans to Government. Under the existing state of things, therefore, and in the impracticability of find ing gold, or keeping down its price, he thought would be utterly impossible for the Bank to return to its cash paymenti, to force which, he contended, would be only giving new weapons to the enemy to fight us. In conclusion, he declared himself the hearty friend to the measure which had been proposed, and pro nounced the soggestion of his Honourable Friend (Mr. Brougham) chimerical, extravagant, and im practicable. Mr. BROUGHAM shortly explained. Uhl such a principle. If his plan was to be pur sued we might be in the state that France was at pre sent. They might pull down the Bank of England and fall into that situation of anarchy and confusion in which France had been. But what was the situa tion of Lord King with his tenants? He insisted upon the performance of their contract, which was entered into in contemplation of a very different state rif things. The tenant must pay in guineas, but where was he to get them? In short, such a system was placing the tenant completely at the mercy of the landlord. With respect to the Bill itself, he thought it was fully ade quate to the purpose for which it was intended, so far as it went. It did not compel the creditor to take Bank notes, nor did it compvl the Bank to issue any thing else ; .the principle on which he went was, that when the debtor was ready to pay kis creditor in Dank notes, he should not be compelled to pay him in gui neas. As long as gold and notes cannot be equally in circulation he conceived the Legislature should in terfere. As to its leading to a maximum, he consi dered it the most preposterous proposition that could be thought of. He was anxious that the law should prevent any advantages from being taken upon the depreciation. He did not believe Lord King would be inclined to take any such advantage, but there might be those individuals who would take advan tage of that circumstance. He contended, that there was no evidence whatever, nor was there, in his opi nion, any depreciation of Bank notes in point of tact. With respect to Ireland, since the Restriction Act, there was no evidence that the Bank no:es were not uniformly taken at par with guineas. In some par ticular counties in the North of Ireland it had been the practice both before and subsequent to the Bank Restriction Act, for the tenant to pay his landlord in guineas ; and as to a premium for gui neas, that practice had also prevailed before the Restriction Act took place, and the increase in that premium arose from the peculiar state and circum stances of that country, but by no means resulted from the Bank Restriction Act. The circulation of Ire land, from its nature, required the system which had existed ; but he assured the House that it was fast approaching to that system which must ultimately be most advantageous to the country. If they were to apply the system of the North of Ireland generally to the whole empire, it would be a measure which it I was impossible could be carried into effect. Lord King, therefore, was mistaken in endeavouring to establish in this country that system which arose en tirely from the peculiar circumstances of that part of I the country. With respect to restricting the Bank to its present issues, it would be the most erroneous system that could be imagined ; it would be putting the Bank in a most singular and novel situation ; it would be driving them to the necessity of coming to Parliament from time to time to direct what extent of jissues should be made. He protested against the principle of considering the system cf the French astignats, and other Continental circulating paper, as ...tt all applicable to the paper circulation of this coun try, as bearing no analogy whatever. Under all the circumstances he conceived my Lord King had taken an advantage which, had be viewed the subject in the moral point of view which he (Lord C.) did, he was convinced, he would nct have adopted such a prin ciple. Upon the whole he was impressed with the necessity of the bill, and therefore gave it his warm - Lord FOLKESTONE entered into a spirited de fence of the motives which had guided Lord King in the course he had pursued. He contended that he had only acted in coaformity with the laws of his country, and observed that the tenant could not com plain of oppression, inasmuch as he had the opportu nity of raising the price of his commodity commen surate with the addition made to his rent. His Lord ship could not help adverting to the strange contra riety of opinion which subsisted amongst the confes sed friends to the measure then before the House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that it was likely to verge into a permanent measure, and lead to make the Bank-note a legal tender. The-De puty Governor of the Bank on the contrary, although the professed friend of the Bill, declared if he thought it was likely to end in a legal tender, he would most strenuously resist it, while another Bank Director declared himself the advocate of the measure, but did not wish that it should go to the full length of making Bank-notes a legal tender ; and in this confused state of ideas and clash of arguments, some indirectly hint ing their hostility to the avowed object of the Bill, and others admitting that there were no real grounds for the measures, but all agreeing to support it, did the matter stand. In his opinion the measure was no more than an extension of the Act of Edward VI. arising out of similar causes, and if not corrected likely to be attended with similar effects. He was ready to agree with the Right Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last, that the asiignat: of France were in some respects dif ferent from the Bank of England notes—but although there were only twenty-three millions of the latter issued, he begged the House to recollect that their calculation was not to be founded on this statement, as the notes issued by seven hundred country banks, of the amount of which no certain information could be obtained, ought also to be taken into the scale.— The Noble Lord then read a statement from Lord Liverpool's pamphlet, referring to the events which preceded the passing of the Statute in the reign of Edward the Vlth. These events, he said, were ex actly similar to those which were now so much to be deplored, and which, he felt no doubt in stating, would be productive of the same effects. He trusted, however, that the eyes of the Government would be opened in time, and that they would not, by perse vering in the measure they had so hastily brought for wai d, entail the same calamities on the country which had beLit inflicted at that time. The Noble Lord next entered into a series of ingenious arguments to prove the depreciation of Bank of England notes, the most self-evident of which he pronounced to be the very measure which Ministers were then endeavour ing to introduce. He considered the Bank in a state of insolvency, from the very moment it ceased its cash payments, and considered the assertion of the; scarcity of gold in the country wholly unfounded, it lustrating his argument by instancing the traffic] which had been carrying forward, and the facility . with which gold could yet be procured for an ade quate premium. In France, when the assignat dis appeared, gold returned ; and, he had no doubt,wheii the the Bank of En ;land notes were withdrawn, the same effect would be experienced, Before he con cluded, his Lordship took leave to relate an anecdote of the Noble Lord (Stanhope), the original promoter of this notable Bill.—Some years ago, when the Fr - cious metals were in general circulation, a practice prevailed of clipping and sweating guineas, by which their intrinsic value was much reduced.— The Noble Lord, who had always a remarkable talent for mechanics and chymical experiments, thought he had discovered a sovereigns remedy for this nefarious practice, and with this nostrum the Noble Lord waited on Mr. Pitt, and having explain ed the nature and effect of this wonderful disco. very, he persuaded Mr. Pitt to let him try the ex periment, and got admission to the mint for that purpose ; here he employed a person belonging to the Mint to make this guinea, which was not to be easily melted, and could not be clipped or sweated. The work was performed perfectly to the Noble Lord's satisfaction—..A !" says his Lordship, this will do—this is the very thing ;" but unfortunately the man let the guinea slip from his finger upon a stone staircase, and it fell in pieces. The Noble Lord's Bill was much like his guinea ; it might be adopted to some purposes, but could Lever answer the purpose for which it intended. Upon the whole, he considered this Bill as an ex PM facto law, pro. ductive of much evil, totally insufficient to its ob ject, and more detrimental than beneficial towards remedying the evil it proposed to redress. Lord CASTLEREAGH expressed himself most, anxious to declare his opinion upon this Bill, the more particularly as it was most likely to be the subject of farther discussion hereafter. He should endeavour at the same time to assume an argment in which the House would agree with him. • He thought the Ho nourable and Learned Gentleman, whom he wished immediately to have followed, had very usefully call ed the attention of the House to the situation of debtor and creditor under this Bill. It not merely affected the law between landlord and tenant, but extended to all debtors and creditors of every description, and upon which a new practical difficulty would arise, as, in the cass of the officer who was to sell the property of the tenant under the distress, if the She r iff should advertise that it could only be'sold for the current coin, he would have the same difficulty in settling with Lord King as in selling the property for cash. The Legislature had gone so far as to make Bank-notes a legal tender as between the Sovereign and the subject in the payment of all taxes and revenues, and by practices made a legal tender to the public creditor. The House would be:guilty of a flagrant act of injustice if they would compel the debtor to pay in the current coin of the realm. He put it to the Noble Lord ( Folkestone) what was un derstood by the contract, but that the payments from the debtor to the creditor was to be made in bank notes. He denied, on the principles of justice, that theLegislature!had made the contract inany other view than in case of absolute necessity in order to pre serve the whole. The Legislature, he apprehended, in the present Bill, acted upon the same principle.— The moral contract was always more binding than the legal contract ; but if there was a time when an individual attempted to break down that moral con vention, it became the painful task of the Legisla ture to do its duty and preserve that contract. He did not mean to arraign the conduct of that Noble Lord who might think himself justified in the mea sure he had adopted, but he regretted that a Noble Lord of such talent and abilities could so main merely because it was an order. Suppose by the pre sent measure Bank-notes were nor, as they certainly were, a legal tender, yet that must, iva very little time, be the necessary consequence#Ao that the Right Hon. Gentleman ,well knew. 7se measure was defended on the ground of its being but a tem porary measure, that was ore ground of his objection to it. If there was any thing ever wanted to some final arrangement, it was the currency of the country. After the discussions which had taken place on it, he thought the Honourable Gentleman tod much dis posed to procrastinating measures, while the dreadful state of our pecuniary concerns demanded speedy re medy. After this measure, Bank-notes were no longer the obligations of the Bank, but of Parliament. Would not they be as mach connected with the Go vernment, as the arsignau were connected with the government of France? Since :he restriction, the Bank has been an instrument in the hands of the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the day. This was a measure to prevent an artificial depreciation ; what that might be, as opposed to a real our, he prefe:%ed himself unable to comprehend. He would give his decided negative to the Bill. On a division there appeared—For the second read ing of the Bill 133—Against it 35—Majority 98. Mr. CREEVEY gave notice that he would to-day move to vi de& Bank Directors from voting on the Bitt. On our re-admission into the Gallery we fcund Lord Folkestone on his legs. He continued speaking for some time, and then proposed that the committal of the Bill should be postponed till Monday se'nnight. This motion was negatived without a division, and the Bill ordered to be committed this day. Adjourned at THREE O'CLOCK. THE EVENING STAR. LONDON. v. EASTCOTT, IN THE PARISH OF RUISLIP, MIDDLESEX. Mr. ROBINS informs the Public, the SALE of JOEL STREET UPPER FARM, situate at Eastcott, in the Parish of Ruislip, advertised to be Sold by Auction, at Garraway's Coffer.- house, on Wednesday, the 24th July, is POSTPONED. Warwick-street, July 16,1811. TUESDAY, JULY 16. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. ft per Cons. for money and account Glii ex. die. S prr C. Reduced eqi—Navy 5 per Cent. 95til ex. div. 4 per Cent. 78/4—Bonds 11s. 12s. prem.—Omnium 2f db. Excheq. (Sd.) par to 2s. prem.—Ditto (Sid.) ss. 6s. prem. We regret that it is not yet in our power to give any confirmation of the reported Victory in the Me diterranean, which was brought to Falmouth by the Princess Charlotte, and detailed in the STAR of yester day. A Gentleman of great respectability, and hold ing a high situation at Lisbon, mentions the report, however, in a letter to a friend in this country, and adds, that it was generally believed in Portugal, al though his statement does not extend to the capture and destruction of so many ships. It was understood, however, that the object of the expedition was com pletely defeated by the loss sustained by the enemy on the occasion, the troops on board having been all made prisoners; but it is not. true, as reported yesterday, that the news had been forwarded to bon by Lord Win.t.norrox, nor is it even known on what authority the report rested at Lisbon. Mr. HENRY THORNTON thought that any restriction on the Bank would not remedy the dif ficulty ; upon the whole of the question he coacei- Moniteurt of the 10th instant, contain an Address ved there might be a necessity for some interference of the Legislative Body to the KING of ROME! By of the Legislature, by some artificial means to re the same papers we learn, that General SUCHET, for store matters to their original state; but what he his barbarous achievements at Tarragona, has been chiefly objected to was, that this Bill did not appear created a Marshal of the Empire. to be a temporary measure, and he considered that Parliament should assurc the public that it was mere- Private letters from Lisbon to the 2d instant, re ly temporary. It was not the single act of Lordiceived by the MERMAID, furnish us with the following King that made this measure necessary, but havingiparticulars relative to the hostile armies : become the subject of Parliamentary discussion, it I ".I" h e French army is 56,000 strong, made up in the follow was necessary something should be done. If the g manner : 10,000 under SOULT, collected from Murda, Gra nadain and the surrounding pr ovinces , and 4 , 000 from Cadiz measure of Lord King were to be brought into prat- 24,000 with MAmost- fr om Ciudad Rodrigo, including the tice it must be attended with the greate s t conf us i on , I I: greater part of the garrison of that fortress, and C,ii)GO from Ma and would place the country Bankers in the most drid. Lord lit itLLINGTON has at present not more than 45,000 aukward predicament, as they being liable to be men,i Irelan d an d d com E pre l hen d ding d the h reinforcemements expected fro.n on actually ao a . o t in the on of 771 to summoned upon their two-pound notes and to he n t calculates e trnnp s pay P or t a l egre and ng ill an vas , costs, in case cash should be demanded of them.— composing in the whole 55,000 British, Portuguese, and ele He denied that there had been a depreciation of detachment of Spaniards necks. CASTANOs. The Spaniards under paper, and, asa temporary measure, alone. supported BLA", to the nut.ibrr of 7000, have proceeded towards Seville, this Bill. to co-operate with General Gaiineu against the besieging army before Cadiz. There have been some skirmishes with the ad- Mr. MAR RYATT said, that this Bill was not vanced guards on the left of the Guadiana, during which the allies only the most extraordinary in itself, but attended have taken 70 prisoners, and have killed a considerable number. with the most extraordinary circumstances : his Ma- " There are not more than 4500 sick in the allied armies. jesty's Ministers, by supporting this Bill, had recant. " The country which has been left has been entirely desolated, the corn fields either reaped or the produce destroyed. ed all their former doctrines, and thereby admitted " A very large convoy of provisions has arrived at the French the depreciation of Bank paper. He considered this heed-quarters at Badajoz from Madrid. measure as wholly inadequate to the purpose, and .. Our provisions and stores have been removed from Cam conceived that nothing but retracing their steps, by bra towards Lisbon, to be' conveyed from thence by waterto restraining the Bank issues, and restoring cash pay- Abrantes, and subsequently by land carriage to Portalegre." ments, could remedy the evil. By the arrival of two ships from the Rio de la Mr. JOHN SMITH supported the Bill on the Plata, die Margaret and Apollo, and one from Rio ground; cf expediency. Janeiro, we learn that Capt. Elliot with his schooner. Mr. IIANKES thought it would have been much had left the former, and *lie Narcissus frigate, from better that this unfortunate measure had been ee- Admiral De Courcy's squadron, was }lowly e:.- jected ill the first instance, and deprecated the con- pected. The accounts of the native forces of Buenr, duct of Lord King in strong terms of reprobation ; Ayres opposed to Monte Video are very incorrect. the confusion w!'icti must ensue from such an exam- The Revolutionists have 7,400 troops, including 800 pie, if followed, was most alarming, and however be ' flying artillery, 600 cavalry, and 800 negroes. They differed from the general principle of the measure, have besides from S to 4000 recruits, and some regi yet seeing the necessity of it, when properly modified, ments of militia, whose services have been for the ple be should support it. sent dispensed with. The following we yesterday re- Lord CASTLEREAGH shortly explained. • ceived from a most satisfactory quarter : The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, 4. • •By setelligence from Caraceas to the Oda April we learn in a most able and animated speech, combated the ttist the General Congress and Executive Authority cotabliehed in arguments against the measure, and urged its exile- that capital on the 2d of the preceding month, was held in th, diency in impressive terms. I highest respect not only in the city, but in all the confederated 'f.he news of its installation inspired uni:ersal joy. Mr. BROUGHAM, Mr. EDEN, and Mr. -MINIM : r vi o ro da n a c erininatioa is every where manifested to resist th e domi. THORNTON, severally explained. • i nion a all except the leg itimate Sovereign, Ferdinand Vi t. We Mr. TIERNEY would not have acted as Lord : also find that General Miranda rec ived daily new proofs of the Kin; had done, had he been in his place, yet he could 1 conSaente and affection of kis countrymen—and this piker had ! been invested sziththe dignified rank of Lieutenant General, by mu. but reprobate the, manner in which that Noble- Go vernment." man was attempted to be hunted down. The Right 1 the laws" t Some of the letters speak of further reinforcements Honourable Gentleman, who was exasperated at his ex pected ' by the enemy • but it is much' more likely refusal to connect himself with his Administration , ' ' that Soult will be obliged to leisenhis numbers, and de would lose no opportunty to bunt him down.— o , : tach a part of his army to relieve Seville and strengthen (Crier of Order, Order.) As to the Bill itself, wnen i the Right Honourable Gentleman says, you shall I SEBASTIAN! on the chores of the Guadalentin. Yesterday was married, at Sunning-Hill, Berks; take this for twenty shillings, can it have any effect but to set men conjecturing what may be its real va- : Captain JOHN CoCHET, of the Royal Navy , to Mrs. lore ? No more effectual method could be devised to ' LuNG, widow of the late Captain LONG, of his Ma. produce a depreciation, it it did not already exist.— . jesty's 89th regiment. When it was said to an Englishman that he should I Bak.an.—This day there being no Court of Alder. not take a note but at a certain value, it was much in I men, the Lord Mayor, after inspecting the Kenai's, the nature of that sort of avowal to refute the order, orgred it to be at present prices. - • ~•