Star. — London, England, 1811-03-22 00:00:00

b e tween' therevenue and the, expenditure-nf the-teun tr y, Why should this measure be brou4ht forme until it should be ascertained what resources possessed for its own defence and the 111 its • co m merce — at least if Ministers means a ny commerce to defend ? All that was was, that Parliament had been told that + of the empire had lately fallen off—that . finan cial difficulties had arisen in Ireland. It was said, indeed,. that the revenue of this country had increas ed; but if he was not greatly mistaken, the accounts were fallacious—the assertions on that head were as reat ly over-stated, as the failure of the revenue in Ireland was under-rated. There was besides, this material c onsideration, that in former periods, when, from whatever causes, there was a temporary fall ing off of any branch of the revenue, the country still retained a 'growing and constantly increasing commerce, which constantly afforded new resour ces—which bore the public through all their diffi culties —which enabled the country to contend with success against an host of -enemies, and even now enables it to present to the enemy a proud frost of defiance. But the root of all this power was to be found in the agriculture and the commerce of the country. Now, with respect to the agriculture, what was its situation ? Why, Parliament had been called upon to establish a system which must ruin or at least depress its interests, in order to save the colonial sys tem from utter destruction. As to the commerce of the country, what conclusion was to be drawn with regard to its state, when a loan of six millions to the merchants and mannfacturers was proposed, on the, ground of its absolute necessity, in order to preserve our commerce and manufactures from complete sub. ver,inn ? He had adverted to the subject of agrictilture and commerce, merely because they formed the re sources to which the country was to look for supply ing its financial drains. He had always doubted the policy of the mercantile loan in 1793 ; but there was this difference between that case and the present— that the former arose from a want of due confidence but now the difficulty consisted in the stagnation of commerce itself. His sole object in noticing these things was to remark the singular period chosen to make this great addition to the Portuguese subsidy. 'The House had been told it was called for, not drily by the policy, but by the good faith and'an cleat amity, which had subsisted between the two countries. Rut there was another country more near and dear to us—a country to which our attention was infinitely more due, with which, in fact, our interests were identified—and that was Ireland. The No ble Lord had spoken of financial exertions ; but what it we should happen to be called 'upon to pay two millions also to Ireland ? 46 I would ask what means Ministers propose to adopt, in order to fill up the de ficiencies in the revenue of that country ? Look first at the Ways and Means, and the taxes of the year; the revenue of Ireland was more than half a million below the charge of its debt, leaving nothing for the curie& 'charoes of the Government. In such circumstances, I should be well assured that no finanoixt . aid was ne cessary for that country, befote,l.i;av' e my consent to .she present mption.'''' Thes2 were the grounds on which he should give the measure his decided nega eive—bfecause he entertained_ no hopes of effectually defending the Peninsola.—because this system of in- . creasing expenditure'Wu fast sinking the country in the gulph oflncxtriiible ruin—and - becaysethe mea. sure, even if fit at another L 117114, was utterly unfit at fretent, when he was ignorant whether the - resources of the kingdom could bear the extraordinary open diture.". . The Earl of LIVERPOOL said that the amount of the tam to be demanded, for Portugal was per fectly well known, as it had been adopted in another' Heuer, and as behad stated it some time ago in an swerto a question then put to him. It was also com petent for the Noble Lord-to have made at any time , an inquiry me the subject, which he should willingky, , have satisfied. With respect to .thes tropriety of the assistance, the Noble Lord last Session opposed it on • the ground that the opportunity for acting was past, and that no man could hope for a Portuguese force of tthe description proposed. ,' - Lord GRENVILLE rose to explain; but ' ' The Earl 'of LIVERPOOL said, the Noble Lord would love nu:oppOrtdnity when be had concluded. Lord GRENVILLE said, that had he misrepre- -tented hhs eentimentsthatnight,he should have isoitod , to the end of his speech ; but as he;teas onivriposom ing his sentiments on a fernier occasion, it was pro.-:, per to-expose the misrepresentation immediately. The Earlef LIVERPOOL continued to observe, 'that such was not onlittlto view of the Noble Lord, but it was widely entertained by many who were most anxious to give every assistance to Portugal, and who differed totally from the Noble Lord in senti ment. They proposed the measure submitted by the ;notion of his Noble Friend, upon no speculative ground, but founded on an experience of exertions on the part of the Portugitese,.which have weeded the expectationseve i n of the most sanguine ; and far surpassed any calculations in whiCh he himself had ventured- to indid `. tlPant the general policy of isub sidies granted to powers, ' he had frequently before discussed tit •= ct with the Nobleßaron. , He knew that it was die opinion of many, that they generally tenirrect rather to cramp the energies than to call forth the resources of those States. He was aware that it was a cotttmen argumenuto say that we did not get the vales - dieur money. Bat , the present was an occasion whit!' could not be tried by any such principle ; it was made evident that, in return for the expenditure of the sum voted last year, we have sue. ceeded in gaining greater advantages than were anti cipated by any person in the country. The Portu guese had not only a large efficient regular force, but a numerous militia, making, exclusive of the Orsli nanza, an army of between 80 and 90,000 men, an army which had already on numerous occasions con tributectessentially to the safety of their country. — There were persons now in London, by communica tion with whom it was easy to ascertain the important fact, that at the battle of Busaco the Portuguese troops acted in a manner deserving of the highest enco miums. The Noble Baron had asked how was the sum, which Parliament was now called on to grant, to be applied ? He wished to answer distinctly, to military purposes only, and he felt the hi pest satis faction in informing the House, that four-fifthidthe whole revenue of Portugal itself had been appropriated to the same purposes. There was, nevertheless, a defi ciency still under the original estimate, arising iit a great measure from the increases' pricesof the necessary sup- ........ith a.._ _ausiasm the of . .. expected „4 acquainted. ... the nations on the Peninsula kindled in every British contest should prove such, as he for his own part was triind, yet he must declare that the Government of not sanguine enough to hope for, then he would say this country had net conducted their measures by any , that their proposition was a good one, and that they Iriews or principles of a romantic character. On the i were entitled to the thanks of the Country. contrary, they had acted on a firm persuasion, that' The motion then was carried without a division. in aiding Spain and Portugal they were effectuallyl supporting the cause of Great Britain. (Hear, hear. i HOUSE OF COMMONS. —He appealed to the policy of our ancestors, whit I The Hyde Park Corner Road BM was read a third dine, and had always regarded Holland and the Peninsula as P u ‘ e4 > e n the motion et . Me.BYnZ• mr. FREE LABOURERS IN THE WEST motet . .1 those parts of regarded with which it was essential top i whiett . a. EL ti L o lS rose t;le forFthe pur riend of pre of putting off the Malt Ow our best interests to maintain a close connection.— In pursuit °frith cobject;thus deemed of such im- ! had given notice for that evening, ts re ( l w at e iv be e li to ev th e e M is r. portance, the best brood of the country was lavish.. Chinese as Free Labourers hi the West India. His Hontsegs. ed a century ago. That House had at one period Me Friend was prevented 4 ,: e o w ut.aubbrie to t from attending by indivo‘iflon Om% to the Howse upon the subject as *NW sli come to a solemn resolution, that this country never Pa rliamentary duty. could make peace with safety, so loft as the , to MESS ALLOWANCES. Crowns of France and Spain were united in one fa- I General GASCOIGNE postponed, until Tuesday the rally. How different, and how much more menacing April, his motion which stood for n e s t Tuesday, relative to h . were the circumstances of the present time, and h ow ', Allawances to be granted to die Officers of the Army. much more formidable were-the projects of the pre- ! ROYAL MARINI MUTINY BILL. Salt Emperor of Fmncel It certainly was desirable' On the motion of Mr. YORKE, the Lords' that all parts of the Continent should be delivered . Amendment to the Royal Marine Mutiny Bill w as from the domination now exercised over them, but taken into consideration. tli ' ere might be a period when it would be useless and Mr. YORKE obs e rve d , that before he moved that imprudent to lend them any assistance, when it was the House should agree with their Lo r dship s in t h e ir at the same time an object of the wisest policy to 1 Amendment, he wished briefly to state the nature and ' persevere in every effort for the independence of the extent of it. The Royal M a rin e M ut iny Bill had' been introduced this year, precisely in the same shape nations - tie Peninsula—(Hear, hear % He now. . , , -- '- Of • •-- •1 seen - former - _. on /.) as that in which it had .. _a passed in ____ years. kame to the question.._ practicability—(Hear, hear.) doubt, however, had arisen, whether the provi s io n s ~e admitted its importance, but considered expert- A ence as its best test. If the House looked back to of it extended to Marines serving on shore in f or ei gn the commencement of the contest in 1793, he believ- parts, and not being detachments from men of w ar .l It was thought by some, that Marines under these ed it would be impossible to name a conjuncture that presented a fairer prospect. The campaign of , circumstances, would be liable to the operation, . 1803 was over in three months, in as short a period neither of the Army nor of the Ma r ine M ut i n y A c t. the Russian war was terminated, and in,a still shorter ' It happened, that at the present mome n t, a l arge the Prussian Monarchy was overthrown. If they ' .1 of Royal Marines, not detached f r om men o f looked at the duration of the war in Spain and Por- war, was serving in Portugal. Th e question, t h ere . '. e. tugal, they found themselves in the third year of an fore, became one of practical important ,and the *omitted struggle (Hear, hear, hear.) I n 18 0 9 t h e doubt which he had mentioned having arisen in a very respectable quarter (although he confessed that Rouse was told that a was perfectly vain to contend against the Power of France ; in 1510 this prediction he was himself by no means convinced on the sub ect), it had been proposed and carried in the Ho us e was repeated, aOnow, in 18)1, they still heard the i of Lords to introduce the words 44 Forei g n p a rt s " same assertioes;,l-fiwas, however, happy to say, that into the Bill, in such a manner as to leave the ope r a-, there was not a single.province in Spain in which the tion of the Bill on Marines situated as he had de- enemy had yet succeeded in establishing an unresisted scribed, free from the possibility of mistake. He authority. The contest, cempared to any other which therefore moved, that the House should agree in their the French had hacito sustain,had been great, had been gigantic; and he was convinced that the mind of the Lordships' Amendment.' Spanish people was yet unconquered, and he believed r The motion was agreed to, and it was ordered that Limit . Lordships should be acquainted with the same. unconquerable. It would be a new fact inhistory, if a nation rising as Spain had risen should be overtone.— PRESS IM mom. As to what had been said by the Noble Baron, of the I Lord A. HAMILTON rose to make his promised : motion respecting the restrictions on the press in In- British army Possessing no more of Portugal than the ' apace eircumscribedby its entrenchments, he wouldbeg dia. He had no intention at present of making any remarks on those restrictions, or to ask any thing of leave to remind him that there were four provinces in , that kingdom which n©t a French soldier had hitherto the House, but the opportunity of stewing what the ;restrictions were. In his opinion the proceedings entered. The situation of the army was that which had i consequent on the late trials .at Madras would have been, chosen by its commander, as one which enabled afforded sufficient grounds for his motion, had not bins to oppose the eaemy•with the greatest advantage and effect. And here he would ask, had not the charac. still stronger existed on a general consideration of the , subject. It was well known that long usage assumed ter of French wars and French armies been somewhat changed by the' events of the last three years ? , somewhat of the character of law. T he consequence Whether the tone of that Government was what it frequently was, that regulations were enforced whol used to be, when he proclaimed his march to be irre- ly unsaactioned by the Legislature. He wished it ' sistible, and announced with such presuming confidence should be known not only what were the regulations of the press in India, but from what authority they Ns intentions of driving us into the sea ? (Hear, hear,' hear.) The Noble Lord had objected to the time and proceeded. When the House were told that no pub lication was permitted in a newspaper in India with form of the vote proposed, which he considered as out the previous inspection of the Secretary of the unusual and unparliamentary. He (Lord Liverpool) would, however, produce many instances in which Government, and that the penalty for a violation of similar votes had been passed, immediately after the this rule was an immediate embarkation for Eng- Army Estimates had been laid before the House.— land, he was persuaded that they could not refuse as sent to his motion ; the mono especially, when they As to its amount, and the means of the country as Connected with it, he must again express his de- were made acquainted with the regulations laid down for the guidance of the Secretary in his task of re tided opinion, that as long as there was a fair pros. pect of success, it was the policy of this country to vision. These regulations were to prevent the pub avert the battle from its own shores. He believed lication of all observations on the public Government, that nine-tenths of the country would rather con- , or revenue ; on the embarkation of troops ; on the tintse to sustain the burden' "or 'privations it. might ! nature of any expeditions, naval or military ; on the °destination of ships, whether belonging to the Corn. 'impose, than bandon the:itritggle in the Penin- ' pang or otherwise ; on the probabilities of war or sula. The No ble Baron he4l, dwelt on the.interests of Ireland : how must her danger be inireued if the' peace, dice kc. Ss that in tact there was namely Western Coasts of Spain and 'Portugal mould be "any subject on which it was permitted to publish an in'the possession of the enemy. 'Sq powettully did ,opinion. He reminded the House that he was not this consideration operate on his mind, that he must ' now calling in question the propriety or impropriety conceive Ireland more, if poslible, than any other part of these regulations ; he was merely asking for the of the Empire, interested in the present crisis of the papers which would shew that such regulations elis. , campaign. Should all the exertions that had been red. The nature and result of the late trials at gMa,.made ultimately fail, and the conflict be at length dras were well known. It had always h'"'---.i t Under transferred to our own shores, we should still reap I stood that the administration of justice its India was this important advantage from the present Measures, pure and uncorrupted. But either the Government were or it was very extraordioo r y t h at n eith er t h e Govern that we should hawk an experienced army to depend ashamed of the proceedings during those trials,, on (hear, hear.) —When the fate of Russia and Prussia menu or the Cowls cii Justice in India, nor the Board so clearly shewed that it was not to regular forces that the safety of nations could be always safely con.' of Controul at hom e , chose to allay the extreme fer- I ment which tho se t r i a l s h a d p ro du c ed i n I n di a by fided, if those forces were without experience, it must al be gratifying and consolatory to know that in the last lowing Item to be printed; If, as had been asserted, extremity there would be a British army who had I O. * proceedings were justifiable, the publication of acquired • a practical skill in the arts of war, who , them must prove beneficial. Of the propriety, how would be then entrusted with the defence of their na- , ever, of publishing them, he entertained no doubt tive land-L(Hear, hear.) I and in this opinion he was not singular. He had the EarIGROSVENOR observed,thatnotwithstanding ' authority of one of the Judges in the Supreme Court the able speech he had just heard, he was not perfectly lof India itself. Judge Sullivan, who in reply to the convinced of the propriety of granting so large a sum application which had been made for permission toI of money to Portugal. As it was probable, however, . print the trials, observed, that the Court might give' that the Noble Secretary of State who proposed the; that permission, but that it would s be of little avail' I while a superior power controuled the press. By the Address might have other reasons besides those he had stated for recommending additional support, he . same Judge it had been declared, that the authorised should not oppose the proposition. He would agr ee I restriction of the press could not be looked over ; to the motion, leaving, to the Noble Lord•(Welles Welle sley) , and he had wisely characterised the liberty of the and his colleagues the entire responsibility of the ' press, as one of the dearest rights of the subject, and measure. Tkere were some points, however, upon' the best security for his privileges. • Fully impressed which he differed with Noble Lords on the other side. I with the same feeling, but abstaining from pronoun- He could not perceive in the situation of the British I cing any opinion at present on the restrictions which army in Portugal those proofs of the complete suc• Iha taken place on the press in India, he should con. cess they spoke of. He agreed with the Noble Baron I tent himself with moving, near him (Grenville,) that before so much of our na- " That there be laid before the House a copy of a ll or d ers , re rtional resources were applied to the support and de- aulatimul i rules, and diactions which have been promulga te d ;ince fence of foreign Powers, we should consider whether ! t t h he rer a i)r rt es 7 le 9 d 7, with regard to any restraints on the press by the - ncies of Bengal, Madras and Bombay ; or which we were capable of affording them. Much would have been acted upon with o ut promulgation; or which have depend upon the state of affairs in Ireland, and of the been sent to India by the Court of D i r ec t ors , or the Board of ability of that country to meet the acknowledged de- Coetroul." ' ficiency in her revenues. Much whakl depend upon the reasons which made him feel it his duty Noblea DUNDAS would state as shortly as po tossible the capacity of this. part of the United Kingdom to meet - the pressure of the difficulties by Alias it was p rove the motion of the Noble Lord. The surrounded. Much would depend upon the restora. Lord had founded his proposition on two distinct Lion of Commerce, stud a the 44; of go Omura Sr° l44 s i ilia OVA CatAill krtaiThliDgi is the Courts , ~• - - . . •. • .._ • r . ~: . i . other, the B which, in his2:2 Ibis country and to of these grounds, he ruble Lord for introducing occasion ! the House being , t proceedings on the trials be laid on the table, till which period aty agitation of the question was pre mature. With respect to the general reasoning, the Noble Lord, while he professed not to found his mo• tion on any condemnation of the regulatihns by m hick the press was restrained in India, asserted that any restraint on the liberty of the press in India was Im proper. [Lord A, Hamilton observed, that he had not said so.] Stich was certainly the impression made on his mind by the remarks of the Noble Lord. As to the liberty of the press, surely no man could be so wild as seriously to entertain an opinion that the principles which were applicable to that liberty in England were alike applicable to it in India. The Noble Lord asked for the rulee ithich existed on the 'object. Now really, seith the exception of the regn lations regarding Newspapers, Which the Noble Lord ' bad read, he did not believe there existed any written tegulations respecting the pre* In India. He would ask the Noble Lord whether be, it would be arise to sanction the unrestrained p ublication of all 'matters whatever in the Newspapers of India ? [Lord ,A. Hamilton : " No, but no Censorship ."]— With ' out some Censorship there would be danger. Could any thing be considered more perilous than to spread opinions of all kinds whatever throughout the whole of Hindostan ? A Government who permitted such a practice would be most unjustifiable. Let it be re collected that no European could be in India but either in the service of the Company or by the licence of the Company. Was it not perfectly just, there fore, to say to an individual there—to a Printer for instance, at Madras, " If you do not conform to the regulations of the Government you must withdraw from India." Suppose a clerk in. any office in thlo country were to beoome the editor of a newspa per, he would be perfectly justified in doing so ; but . would not the person by whom he was emplayed be justified in saying " I do not choose that you should thus occupy yourself, and you must therefore quit my service." The cases were strictly analogous; for this was all that was declared by the Government of India. To give the House some idea of the extent of the evil which might result from unrestrained freedom of the press in India, he would mention a circumstance that had occurred since his accession to office : —lt had come to the knowledge of Govern. meat that certain persons, actuated doubtlessly by the most 'audible intentions, had caused to he printed for the purpose of dissemination among the natives of India, a treatise, containing animadversions of 'the most severe nature on the religion and ca,ms ot the natives. Now it was the substratum of the Bei= tish Government in 'lndia to uphold the laws and usages of the natives, the House would immedinely perceive that it was the bounden duty of Government to suppress a work calculated to excite irritation and hostility. Such a re s traint on the press was justified by the circumstances of the case, and by the 'poWerS entrusted to the Government. Differing wholly from the Noble Lord on the grounds upon which the Mo. tion was founded, he must give to i - ' -. decided gative. Lord FOLKSTONE declared, vious doubt existed in his mind as producing the paper moved for by the observations of the Right Hon, would have completely removed it nourable Gentleman ,asserted that Company had a right to bind their own regulations. This might be an additional reason for infoiming those regulations were to which thei: in India were compelled to submit. nourable Gentleman talked of sending from India with as much ease, as it 1• that such a proceeding must be ruin ...e indi , . for life. It was not true, that the regulations were confined to newspapers. The Government of Ma dras had refused permission to publish the trials which had taken place in the Supreme Court there. The object of his Noble Friend was to ascertain whether the Governmept of India was borne out le what he (Lord Folkstone) considered the injustici wind oppression of refusing to the press that liberty which it ought to enjoy, and he therefOre gave hie hearty assent to the motion. S.ir .1. ANSTRUTHER observed that the Noble Mtiver abstained from directly condemning the Go vernment of India, and only wished for the !ev i l; tions which that Government had promulgated. might ask what right Parliament had to demand the rules which the Government of India chose to esta. blish for the guidance of their own servants ? The Noble Lord who had just spoken, however, went fur ther than the Noble Mover; and urged as a ground Ifor consenting to the motion the injustice and oppres sion of the Indian Government. To accede to the motion, thel•etore, woold be to accede to the propo sition that the Government of India had been unjust and oppressive; and this without any case whatever of individual suffering having been made out. There was not an EurOpean in India. who was not aware of the engagements into which he entered before he en. tered into them ; and that if he did not choose to comply with those engagements, the term of his re sidence in India was at an end. As to the regulations which respected the publication of newspapers, he would ask any one who was at all acquainted with India, whether an unrestraine publication could wiih safety be permitted ! Was this unrestrained publi. cation to be allowed for the purpose of permitting one set of the servants of the Company to illuminate another set of those servants ? Suppose a Secretary of the Admiralty in this country were to set up a newspaper, for the purpose of discussing the public conduct of a Lord of the Treasury, could any thing • be more absurd ? But perhaps this unrestrained pith , lication of newspapers in India, was for that purpose of illuminating the natives. Was this exactly desk able ? Would it be very expedient to inform them of Ithe peculiar tenure by which the British Goverutnint held their power? He recollected when he was in India that soon after the massacre at Venom, a series - of, ingenious and well written essays, appeared in one of these publications which Were to enlighten the great capital of Calcutta (in which let it be remembered, there were at least 100,000 natives, capable of read.. ing English) the tendency of which was to Korn. ; , 111•11===••••1•1••••••••••11k - .T" . 7.11 1 7. ~ — s. r' "rf . •-• , - ,, k a , K - 71171*^ - 77 -- "T.' , -- 77 . 7 - '-',"•,---. Mr" 7 1.7:' . 9 . - • - • . . - . . . , 1 t_rixite.ertnn li.s.,Theggivasklx,rot, on which be particularly, for afordiog - It temporary support. It would. also .of Madrat two reitft • Mgt the ;ht forward recmnrueiadedihe vote , was the degree and amount of . be proper to consider,whether the revenue.* wee likely' principles respecting the press, a ces the coup- the exertions that had been made in Portugal towards ' to be more productive in the efisuing year than they 'hip's opinion, applied eq'ially to e defence of the raising an' efficient force .— Hear, hear.) There i had been in the last. lie would again repeat, that India. With respect to the first 1 ant t• leive were some other .topics of the Noble Lord's speech, lie would not oppose the nr,tion, bet leave the re- had to complain of the Noble L s yet inown on which he felt desirous of making a few obser- . 1 sponsibility of this vote to Ministers. They possibly the subjeet on the present occasio the revenue vations. Although unquestionably be felt all the , might have reasons to justify it, with which he could d aware that the whole of the proce some fi nan- warmth and enthusiasm which the situation of not be expected to be acquainted._ If the issue of th e lat Madras were ordered to be 14 w :o it his decided ne. , that had any pre. ; to the propriety of y his Noble Friend, iourable Gentleman it. The Right Ho• at the East India eir servants by their e true ; bunt via* ng the House what their fellow-subjects it. The Itight Ho- iding a person hootf it he was not aware uin to the individual