Star. — London, England, 1819-01-28 00:00:00

I ~' I A- .4 T 4 11 ~~ ~, r t 1 i• I.t r • .k 1,4,4 il4 This day were published, price es. THOUGHTS on the RESUMPTION of CASH PAYMENTS by the BANK; andon the CORN 111 Ls , as connected with that measure. In a Letter addressed to the Bight Honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer. By A. IL CHANIBEES, Banker, Boud.street. Printed for T. Egerton, Whitehall; and J. M. Richardson, Coenhill. 'J PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.. ifOUSE JANIIARY 27. The !louse at in . its Judicial capacity the first time this Sea. sion, and a meeting accordingly took place at the usual hour in tke forenoon. Counsel were heard ow the Scots cause " Geddes a. Stuarts."--To.pruceed on Friday. Viscount A it num mus, one of the sixteeu Scots Peers, took the oaths and his seat. Viscount S f tUT 14 presented a copy of the Report made to the Prince It .gent by the Surveyor-General of the Board of Works, relative to the employment of sutistitute or other means for the cleaning of chimuies, instead of the usual mode of climb ing boys—which was ordered to be printed. INCIIPAsE OF CHIME—LONDON PETITION. Lord HOLLAND presented a Petition from the' Lord Mayor, Aldermen, &c. of the City of London, relative to the alarming increase of crimes, and the inadequacy, or injurious tendency of the present see. rem of punishment (similar to that presented to the other House of Parliament.) The subject was one, his Lordship observed, which imperiously called for the best and speedy attention of the Legislature. The present Petitioners were far from being a set of ighorant or visionary men, but men who, from their station in life, and opportunities of intelligence and ieformation, many of them being at the head of the Magistracy of the Metropolis, were well calculated to form c orrect opinions on the subject of the Peti tiong . the Petition stated, and he regretted to say, with ties much foundation, the great increase of crime wlich prevailed of late years; and further, that such increase was in proportion to the increased severity of allotted punishment, more especially, as far as the capital punishment for death was pre scribed. He could not help remarking on this occa sion, with respect to a circumstance which was within his own knowledge, and the fact he deemed t strik ing one, namely, that in a neighbouring country, France, where before the Revolution the: punishment of death was attached to a multitude of minor offen ces, petty thefts particularly, the commi ision of these offences was inconceivably common. In, fact, at that period the property of no man in that .country was safe; so great was the prevalence of offences com mitted by individuals in various shapes. But after that great event, when those part, oil the law were altered, either by the National or II ie Legislative Assembly, the taking off' those capital punishments,, and .clotting others more consonant to the nature of the offences, more especially, when those ameliora tions were established by the Code Nap okon, the di minution of those offences was inconceivable, and though the certainty of adequate punish meet follow ing the commission of the offence, thu se were in a great measure done away. In this cou tory, he was decidedly of opinion, the like result %%mild attend similar regulations. Nothing more loudly called for the decisive interposition of the Legislature, than those pans of our Criminal Code comply fined of in the Petition ; their Lordships could scare e possibly be aware of the alarming extent to which the com mission of crime had spread under the ex isting sys-' tem. It was not at present his intention t o submit any proposition to the House on the sub ject. He trusted the investigation, and the suggestion of reine dies, would fall into abler hands. At present, he should merely move that the Petition be I aid upon the table. Ile trusted the subject would be speedily , and seriously taken up by Parliament. TI to united, opinions of some of the greatest individuals ;hat ever' adorned this country were decidedly in las 'our of al general and efficient review of the Criminal Code, for the purpose of rendering it more just, c UMMllll surate, and efficacious, most puticularly as ii refer red to the punishments at present allotted o k minor offences. He then presented the Petition, wl. ich was read at length by the Clerk. It was the coon terpart of that recently presented to the other House of Par liament ; and the effect of its detail and pray er was what had been stated by the Noble Lord in Isis in •troductory observations. On the question for its lying on the table, The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he lose try no means to offer any opposition to the Noble Lord's motion, or yet to enter into any discussion of tho im portant topics to which the Petition referred, as Other opportunities would arise for that purpose—but chiefly to advert to a consideration connected with it, which was rather a matter of fact than of opinion. That there was a great increase in the commission of vinous offences, was undoubted ; but it was impor tant to consider how far such arose out of the pecu liar state of the country, proceeding chiefly from the transition from a state of war to on of peace. This was a material consideration, and it naturally led to a view of the state of the country in such respects, at former pefods of a similar nature. This state in a great measure arose from the reductions which ne cessarily took place in our naval and military esta blishments, and which, in the present instance, were great, far beyond any former example. A compara tive reference to the accounts of former periods, would tend to sliew the degree, or how far what was lamented at the present period was attributable to such a cause. Formerly, however, it was not usual to lay such documents before Parliament. There was, he believed, no regular presentation of accounts previous to the time he had the honour to 6.11 the office of Secretary for the Home Department, when, in 1805, there were returns made regularly twice a year of the numbers of capital offences, executions, &c. particularly such as occurred periodically in London and Middlesex, and these had since been re gularly delivered in. If, therefore, tilse returns of late y ear s, comparing the number of convictions which took place in periods of war with those which. took place at period: of transitions from a state of war to that of peace, it would clearly appear, that the numbers were perhaps inconceivably greater on the latter occasions. The Noble Minister then 'en tered into some detail of comparison, as to the num ber of capital convictions, executions, &c. in periods preceding and succeeding the Anierisan war, begin ning with the year 1'777, and ending with 1785, the former year having 63 (in London and Middlesex), and the latter.,lsl, which clearly she..vcd the pro gressive increase in the latter periods ; and these he compared with what took place for a few years be fore tad stsce the conclusioa of the late war, which, on a specification of the nniibers, shelved the im mense increase occurring iR the recent instance. It was proper, he thought, that these considerations should bis attended to r in order that it may be seen how far the same effect operated at intervals of tran aition from a state of war to one of peace ; and he thought it right to trouble their Lordships with these observations, which would tend to enable them to form a just conclusion as to causes which contribu ted so largely to the recent great increase of these serious offences. The subject would come under their consideration in some other shape. They might easily conceive the effect of necessarily having great numbers of men discharged from our naval and mi litary establishments, which were recently extensive far beyond all former precedent, and the lamented consequences adverted to, must naturally be expec ted to be great in proportion. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE concurred with the Noble Earl in some degree, but by no means to the full extent of his inferences. The lamented in crease of crime did not, he observed, particularly i take place at the period of transition from. war to peace, as the greatest increase was in a period of peace, and in some degree during the continuance of war. The causes were to be attributed to the state of the country in other respects. The increase of tax ation might be regarded as the principal ; the fluc tuations of property had also some share in produc ing it ; but he did not think that the reductions in our naval and military establishments hid by any means that share in contributing to the evils in ques tion ; indeed it was rather a matter of surprise that the number of soldiers and sailors convicted was comparatively so small. The great increase eijuve• nile delinquency was also a lamentable cause, and with this that which the Noble Earl adverted to had little or nothing to do, as appeared plainly on the face of the returns. The state of the great raanufac ' tories, and the baneful practice of crowding such numbers of young persons together, might also be regarded as a cause ; and he farther thought the effect of our extensive reduction was now compara tively trifling, as we were now in the fourth year of peace. The Earl of LIVERPOOL shortly explained, as to the effect of some of his statements, which he re garded the Noble Marquis to have misconceived. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE continued his ob servations. The increase of crime of late years was beyond all former precedent ; it was in a threefold ratio. In concluding, he trusted those most impor tant topics to which the Petition referred, would meet with the full and calm consideration of Parlia ment, with a view to the thorough reirisal of a sys tem so truly alarming and pregnant with evil. The Earl of LIVERPOOL farther explained, that the data to which he had referred, was by no means assigned as the general cause ; but that its conside ration formed a material and prominent feature of the subject. Lord KING expressed his opinion, there was but little hopes to be entertained of really meliorating the state of the country in these respects, until the ancient and wholesome system of payments in specie would he again recurred to. The monopoly in which the Bank was indulged for the exclusive issue of small notes, was, he held, injurious in more respects than one ; and particularly it fostered the injurices and much-exclaimed-against practice of forgery, in Oa much as it rendered that Corporation quite care less in that respect ; whereas the Country Bankers, by exerting a proper degree of vigilance, were little liable to such impositions. The clumsy manner in which the National Bank Notes were fabricated, also afforded much facility to forgeries. Let cash pay ments be again restored, and the Bank deprived of those exclusive advantages which it was not entitled to by its Charter, and the most salutary consequences, he thought, would follow. The Petition was then ordered to lie on the table. CUSTODY OF HIS MAJESTY'S PERSON. The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the Order of the Day for their Lordships going into a Committee on this Bill. Previous, however, to the Lord Chan• cellar's quitting the Woolsack, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice of his intention to move, on Monday next, for Copies of' the Instructions sent to the British Governors in the East Indies, with regard to the cession of the Dutch Colonies, consequent upon the Peace of Paris. The Earl of SiiArre-saustythCn took the Chair of the Committee on the above Bill ; when Lord HOLLAND rose, and re-urged his objec tions of last evening, but more in detail, against the Bill in its present shape. He confessed he still enter tained objections to it ; but begged to be understood as harbouring no idea whatever that any other person than his Royal Highness the Duke of York could so properly be entrusted with the care of his Majesty's person. Many considerations, lie thought, combined to render that illustrious individual the most proper person for the purpose. He, however, seemed to think it would be more proper to unite that appointment and the regulation of the future Windsor Establishment in one Bill. The Noble Earl spoke yesterday of the intention to reduce these Establishments ; but there was no provision of that kind in the Bill—it rested before the House merely on the Noble Earl's assts.. rance. For his part, he thought such a reductive should have t.iken place long since, inasmuch as it' conferred no personal comfort or dignity with re spect to his Majesty, and induced a useless burthen on the country. The Noble Earl had certainly in other instances changed his opinion as to the Esta blishments proper for other branches of the Royal Family: he could not, therefore, think it inconsistent in him, if he had proposed reduction in this branch of the Royal expenditure. But the present Bill called upon the House to place certain patronage in the hands of the illustrious individual, without know inewhat that patronage was. The Establishment was now equally useless and burthensome. There were no fewer than four Lords of the Bed-chamber, which induced the unconstitutional consideration of au imperium in imperio. Upon the whole, be roust dissent from the measure in its present shape : it was admitted another Bill would be necessary to complete what was intended—then why not unite them? At present their deliberations were fettered on the pro posed extent of the Windsor Establishment, which formed so important a feature in the whole arrange► ment ; it was utterly unknown to their Lordships: to obviate such incongruity, he would .move .as an Amendment, that what followed in the first .cbansv, after the words " full power and aucleurity;'• *Add be omitted. The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought that, as their Lordships were agreed on the proposition of making the Duke of York Castcs Pe; Soller there could be no objection to the other parts of the Bill. With regard to what had passed last Session, or at any former time, on the subject of the reduction of the Windsor Establishment, he had only to say, that if any dis tinct proposition to that effect had been made, he should certainly have opposed it. The circumstances which would have induced him to resist such a pro potition last Session, be should perhaps have occa sion to explain when the subject came regularly be fore their Lordships. In the mean time, he could not help reminding their Lordships, that her Ma jesty was Queen Consort ; and that in forming the original Establishment, consideration was had to her situation as well as to the utility of the Establish ment itself. Ile had stated yesterday, that there could be no increase of the Establishment; but he still meant to contend, that whatever might be its extent, it ought all to be placed under the controul and direction of the Custos Persona. The Noble Lord had expressed his dislike of.an imprison in int perio : but whatever objection there might be to such a state of things, it existed to a certain degree in every establishment formed for the branches of the Royal Family. The same objection Would ap ply to an Establishment far a Prince of Wales, during the life of the King. Lord HOLLAND re-urged his objection, and ob served, that if the clause to which he objected were expunged, it would remove from their Lordships proceedings on this Bill much inconvenience and irregularity. The question on Lord Holland's motion was then put, and negatived. The Earl of LIVERPOOL then said he had now to propose to fill up the blanks, and to move the appointment of a Member of the Council, to supply the vacancy occasioned by the death of the Lord Chief-Justice. It was from no want of respect for the learned person who succeeded that Noble and • Learned Lord that he did not propose him for this situation ; but the official duties of the Chief Justice rendered the appointment inconvenient, as it was desirable that a sufficient number of Members should always be ready to attend the Council on the monthly and quarterly Meetings. He should therefore move, " That John Jefferies Pratt, Marquis Camden, he ap pointed one of his Royal Highness's Council, in the room of John, Lord Ellenborough, deceased." Lord HOLLAND concurred most heartily in the motion, and congratulated their Lordships on the choice which had been made of the Noble Marquis, who had acted so generous and disinterested a Nit with respect to' the reduction of his own Est ahli,.ll - Hence he was the fittest person that could be selected for a situation so intimately connected with that of Windsor. The Bill, with the Amendments, was then agreed to, and ordered to be reported.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMON& At the suggestion of Mr. MMININO, Mr. Gamrtu. consented to alter the date of the 'Returns of Bank Notes and Bank Post Bills in circulation, for which he moved yesterday , and which now Stand from he 50th of December, 1817, to the 25th of January, 1239. . Sersant ONSLOW gave notice, that on the lath of February be would move to repeal the law respecting the rate of interest. Mr. BENNET also gave notice, that on Tuesday the 9th of February, he should submit a motion to the House 'esp. cling Transportation, and embracing the state of Convicts on board the Hulks, the nature of the felonies fur which they Wert com mitted, and the state of the Transports, and of the Colony. Oa the motion of Mr. C4LCRAFT, Rdurns of the num ber of Officers, Non-comatissioned Officers, and Privates, in the British Army, distinguishing the Reginsents, were ordered to be produced up to the 25th instant. Sir JAMES MACK I NTOSH gave a general notice of his in tention to submit a motion to the House en the subject of the Report of the Commission appointed so inquire Into the tn, , ans of rendering the fabeicatiun of Bank-tiotes more difficult. Mr. BROODEN brought up the Report of the Cumuli:tee of Supply, which was agreed to. PRIVILEORS. The SPEAKER acquainted the House, that on the 16th instant, he had received a letter, dated the I.lth, and signed Robert Christie Burton, who described himself as having been elected on the 17th of June last, for the Borough of Beverley, in the West-riding of the. County of York. The writer then stated that he was kept in the custody of the Warden of the Fleet, and that on applying for his discharge, he had been informed by Mr. Nixon, Deputy NVarden, that he could not consent to his release without the interference of the proper Authority. In this circum stance the writer applied to the Speaker for his advice and interposition. To this letter he (the Speaker) had answered that he would take the first opportunity of communicating the subject to the House. Ma he had received a second letter, dated the 20th of January, requesting him not to consider the former as official, as certain circumstances had since arisen which the writer thought would enable him to take ,his seat without the interference of the I louse. In consequence of this cecond address, he (the Speakei) had made no applicaticn to the House ; but last night he had received a third letter from the same individual, who stated, that since his last he had perused with attention the various 'Acts of Parliament and consulted the best Authorities on the subject, and requested the Speaker to take the earliest opportu nity of submitting his case to the House, in order that he might take the seat to which he was entitled. Upon this subject he (Mr. Manners Sutton) would refer to a similar case in 1807, when the Speaker having received a letter from a person claiming to be a Member, and to be taken out of conrinemem, it: virtue of the privileges of the House, the letter had been submitted to a Committee of Peivileges, in order to prove the identity of the individual. This had been done the next day, and an order had been issued to release him from custody. He presumed that in the, present instance the Douse would be disposed to adopt the same course, in thick case it would rt.- main for 'some . Honourable Member to move that Mr. Burt.on's letter be referred to ,a Committee of Privileges. Mr. BATHURST immediately made a motion to that effect, which was agreed to, and the Committee was ordered to sit and to proceed to-mprrow. Mr. BENNET brought hi a Bill to amend the Act regulating t.: , e expenses of Hustings and Poll-clerks, at Dections, s 8 far as regards the City of ‘Vestrnin• Read a first time, and ordered for a second read ing to-morrow. . . _ . I. PRICE OF SIGNER. Mr. GRENFE LL wished to make some inquiries . of thellight Hon. Gentleman opposite, in conse guence of .some iriorzuatiga which le lad. this gal i received. lie understood that the price of 4 a i k t esi Silver was at present ss. 71d. per ounce, o r 3d . thatfixed by the Mint Regulation, and which,.a t e lt time the Regulation was framed last yeii,..seas e d , or 4d. above the price then current. Now it orb cies that as soon 7.1: the price of stand.ud silver high enough to hod out a temptation to tacit rc•d export the coin of die realm, all our silver eili7e nt7 would (::appear a‘i rapidly as 'our gold had &ins.— The total ciisappearance or the latter frorn .a s i t . l4r cause, was maber of experience. li the p ris e and silver was such as he hid mentioned ,- tiles:l...y-14 wished .to know whetlie: the Right Hon. (itial s , opposite were prepared with any rtiearmt to teract the effect of those operations which-sebum • au. mediately be commenced?- The CH ANC ELLOR of the EN:CH EQUERtu at ,, ed that the House would be aware of the ciiaiclit7 e t giving, at present, a satisfactory answer. li t 6 4 heard of the rise in the price of silver, but thouai r conscious of the danger which it might prodtize ir r. lasted, he had reason to believe that it was not ME, to continue long. BANE RIC3TRICTIONS. Mr. PROTHER(,E wished to inquire of an Ro. nourable Gentleman deeply connected with the hoo of England, whether it was the wish of the Birk that the Committee to Le appointed to inquire into their affairs with regard to the resumption of Cash Payments should be a Secret CommittPe? He (M r Protheroe) wished that the Report of a Committee on so important a subject Omitld carry with it the confidence of the country, which was not likely, ;:a. less the investigation should be of a poblic . naiure. Mr. MANNING claimed the protection of the House against being compelled to answer ottestione which related to him in a different capaci.y foo t that which he filled as a National Representative. He had the honour of a seat in the House aSa ber of Parliament, and not as a Director of the Banke and as a Member he would take what put he should think proper when the question should be brought forward.—Mr. PROTI4rIIOE The CHANCELLOR of. the EXCHT."..QT.7II thought that if the Honourable Member fer (Mr. Protheroe) would iook at the Report of Duet Committee appointed on the same subject in th , year 1797, he would not see any thing . is :t sr ii would precinde the House from obtairmg the mast ample information. He then gave notice, that of Tuesday next he should move for the appointmete of a Committee of secrecy to inquire into the Stae of the Bank of EnglonJ, respecting the reotmptios of Cash Payments at the tune fixed by the law, an l other considerations connected with the subject. Mr. TIERNEY was struck with the similarito. the Motion of which the Right Honourable Ger man gave notice to his own. The word., might the same or net, so little was the difference betreen the two Motions. If there was any past of that which be (Mr. Tierney) had announced to wincli C 7 Right Honourable Gentleman objected, let him men tion it, and perhaps they might come to an agree ment. He wished to be informed whether the Seat Committee was to be chosen by ballot or not? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER tended to propose that the Secret Committee shoold be appointed by ballot. With respect to the Motion of the Right Honourable Gentleman, lie himself had acknowledged the vagueness of its nature. If de two Notices were different, it was necessary that they should be discussed apart ; but if they were the sans, why had not the Honourtble Gentleman adopted 'o (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's), which, he cm tended, had been given first? Mr. TIERNEI maintained that the present No Lice of the Right Honourable Gentleman was rent fro:n that which he had previously given. tended only to inquire whether the Bank had clot all that was proper for resuming Cash Nymer.:l next July, and of that he had no doubt; but his own embraced all the bearings of the question, Oo as ' enable all Gentlemen to make up their minds on tie prom ict y of continuing or extinguaing the'whc . srstem of Restriction. If that was what the: Riot: Honourable Gentleman also meant, then lethim sr so, and he should have no objection to agree to 7 Motion. But the only wish of the Chancellor of :be Exchequer seemed to be to oppose him. On so isn portant a question he could not agreito the appoint. ment of a Committee of Secrecy by ballot, and ' pledged himself to take the sense of the House upon the subject. With respect to the inquiry itself, if was as extensive as he conceived it necessary it should be, he felt disposed to abandon the field to the Rig' Honourable Gentleman. Let him take the honour the Motion upon himself—a Motion which, he be lieved,•the House muse we would never have been made had it not been for himself (Hear, )tear.) Let him have the full merit of getting his own point, whilst he (Mr. Tierney) would have the secret gioo fication of having obtained all he . ivantect (Laughter. The CHANCELLOR of the .EXCHXQUER sta ted, that bis Motion was intended to co* y the inquirj into all the collateral branches connected with foe question, though its first point was certainly to ascer tain the steps taken by the Bank to resume CasO Payments. On this point, it must be evident that I secret inquiry would be ruoro proper than a ?Alit investigation. TERNMr. EY.--Then will the Right Honourable Gentleman limit his Secret Committee to the inn( tigation of the measures adopted by the Bank to . sume Cash Payments next July, and allow the other Izanches of the question to be essmined more large, and in a more public manner? If he will, shall have no iiireacr objection to his motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE‘ thought that it would be better to follow the prece dent of 1797, when the Secret Comialuee had quited into the whisk question. Mr. TIERNEY appealed to the House whether had not done all in his power to prevent its beilig burthened with an additional discussion. Ile new' found himself compelled to persevere in his oi course, and should take the sense of HonauraVe Members on the appointirent of a Secret Comreittte like that proposed by ballot, which all knew was ;:e -thing less that a 31inis , _erial nomination. The conversation having droppei, Mr. CAM:RA.I7 moved fur zr. - -tvatartt of an Irian is. parted into Great atitAin abet Ireland ic t l / 4 r pews ISt tr. Hu:, said 11118, stating the countries Croat elcy can., arid Ws Amount the Duties paid on thein.--Ordeird. Mr. CALI k3ST presented a Petliivil /torn Ike TZ;;ht I.nid Charles Townsend init du/let:ail (ci ;As 1;(•;.ikr Tinswoorrh.- 1 0rdered to Qe on tabfe. - 4 • 'Ac House 41x4 . 40jvurca. . • • pll • Pe e P a Tr/ • A the r, ci *ng sect nit e( k to Ir. r f bb :a. In tl sty Asa bi • i tn. Ay, 311 gtit te al tit !ost era ret tall • be ten that the fat- • i in- tion half tte 1 WA I his S •13 tr.e het S2y the int- Poi fit kuld • gbt cf be- peen Let oint, ati- fcr.l stz• uiTJ the ce•- !as at a are yes• Ito thet at 1, I E'Cir• in. r ?!e mud. 'Vs :toe iea- the Is of