Star. — London, England, 1811-05-31 00:00:00

not of so much moment as refusing assent to a bill, but in neither can it be for a moment maintained, that t here was any breach of the Constitution, or any vio lation of the privileges of the House. (Hear, hear.) Therwer andrightundouhtedly resided in the Crown, and if it was competent for Ministers tO advise accord ingly, could it he said that the Crown had a right to re. fuse, and that Ministers, notwithstanding, had no right to advise ? Tie one right was implied in the other, and if the exercise of the right in one case was constitutional, the advice in the other was equally unobjectionable, so far as related to the legal and constitutional question. But after all what had been done? The answer to the Address was said to deny I the power of the House of Commons to fulfil Or make good the sum voted. This was by no means the case. There was certainly no ditect power in the House of Commons to make good of itself this sum; but they might do it by other means, and this the answer had sufficiently expressed. It stated, that the Crown would be glad to comply with the wishes of the House, when means were provided by Parliament for carry ing the • vote into effect. It by no means implied want of trust in the House. Suppose the answer had been, that the Re'tent would take the Address into consideration; would this have been considered as a refusal, or could any exception have been taken to it; though it might have amounted to the same thing? In. stead of this, however, belays he will not accede to the vote till if is provided for by Parliament; and tells them, that therefore they must take the course of the other House. The subject of the Address has, therefore, been cons;dered, and here is the answer ; and if it was competent for . the Crown to return such an answer, would any man say that Ministers were culpable in giving this advice? He allowed it was competent for the Commons to present an Address, i but at the same time he denied that they could send up any Address in command. or that the Crown had not a right to refuse. He further contended, that there was no one instance of any Address contrary to the known opinions and wishes of this other House. It might be asked, how did they know their opinions ? Had the question never been agitated in the Lords, this ground of argument might have been pleaded, but the Lords opinion on the per tentage was well blown, and if the knowledge of the proceedings of the Lords on this subject was used against Ministers to aggravate their supposed offence, it might be equally used by them in justification of their conduct.— They say ,it is .not for Ministers to interfere in any differences between the two Houses, but do they say that the Crown has no right to prevent any quarrel, though it is allowiti to be the duty of the Crown to do so by a dissolution of Parliament. They would not certainly say that the Crown had only to look on and see fair play..--(.4 lasik.)--The Right Honour. able Gentleman bad endeavoured to mate it a ques.. tion of mere management and finance, and had ar gued on that principle, that the Lords had nothing to do with it. He admitted that money questions properly originated in that House ; but the Lords had also a right to their opinion, and no Money Bill could be passed without their concurrence.— They might as well say that they had a right to compel the assent of the Lords, as to call for the as sent of the Crown to an Address for money. The case of Lord Chatham's monument, and the build ing of churches, had been alluded to ; but these grants had passed by Bill, as well as the vote of money for the payment of the salaries of the Officers or the House. He animadverted here on the mode of . pm. ceeding that had been adopted by the House, that had tor its object to pa;s by the House of Lords, ind to eludellte necessity of having their consent, (Hear, hear.)—The mode of proceeding by Address was highly objectionable, and particularly if it was re sorted to for the sake of passing over the Lords. The Loan had been alluded 10, but it was well known that though the money might be paid into the Bank, not a farthing could be touched till it was sanctioned by Act of Parliament. They had been also lately taught by an authority, which he had no doubt the Right Hon. qentlenian respected, that all, 'Act of Parliament was necessary to get money out-of the Exchequer, and not the order of the House of Com mons. It might be said that the functions of the Crown were then suspended ; but if the Commons had the right in themselves of disposing of the public money, their interference was more necessary then than oil any other occasion. (Hear, hear.). They were then told, however, that the House of Commons had' no right to order the disbursement of money without the consent of the Lords. (Bear, hear.) He concluded by contending, that the answer in question implied no breach of the Constitution, and no violation of the Privileges of Parliament, and said, he had at first given his assent only to the introduction of the subject before Parliament, as that line of conduct had been adopted by his predecessor. It was not till the Lords had rejected the measure, that he had given it much opposition; and instead of being a reproach, it ought to be to his credit, that his friends had divi. ded against him on the question, as it shewed no in terference on -his port—(Hear, hear.)—The taking of the grant out 61the Appropriation Act by the Lords was not unprecedented. The Regent said, that when the sum was provided for he should give his assent..... 'I 'h is might be done in a Supply Bill, to which, for his own part, he promised to give no opposition. Under all circumstances. it was.not proper that the Regent should concur in the Address; and, therefore, he avowed the advice which his Royal Highness had been pleased on this occasion to follow. Mr. PONSONBY contended, that from the earliest period the Constitution was known and acted on, it had been the right of the House of Commons to dis pose of the public money. The Right Hon. Gentle man had observed, that in this case there might be no 'limit to their grants; but was it not for the House it self to judge whether 40 or at6o or whatever should b e the sum v o ted.—( Hear, I)—The Right i t, Hon. Gentleman was here to bla that while he admitted the right of the House to vote, he denied its power to fulfil. Did he know no instance where the Lords had given way to the Commons ? The opi nion of the Lords, therefore, could not justify the offensive Answer in question. He contended, that it was not necessary that every matter with respect to money should go before the Lords, and that their con ,cturence in grants was not indispensable. He blamed 'the Right Hon. Gentleman for pleading the cause of the Lords in that House, is violation of their rights. He conceived that there was no sort of similarity between in Assent to an Act of Parliament and an Assent to an Address. It was certainly in the power of the Crown to refuse the first, in consistence with the Constitu tion ; but there could not be found an instance on the Journals of a negative to the latter. The'Right Hon. Gentleman had assumed to himself the aid and con sent of the other branch of the Legislature, to give a direct offence to this House, and to create a differ ence between it and the Crown. He never expected to stand in that House and hear the Right Hon. Gen tleman applauded for a speech in which he took part with the Lords against the Commons. Mr. WHITBREAD replied at considerable length. He anticipated that he would vote in a small moo rity,and observed, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had put into his mouth words which he had never uttered. He had been accused of not being in his place when the Answer to the Address was stated in the House. On that occasion he had been employed in the transaction of public business, but for the test of his general at tendance he would appeal to the Speaker. It was • hard to be accused on one side for neglect, when on the other he was blamed for a troublesome sort of ac tivity—(4 laugh) He adverted to the conduct of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in issuing money; while the Throne was vacant, and observed, that that circumstance was nut at all similar to the present. The Right Hon. Gentleman, when beaten in this House, could stoop to conquer, and go to other pl aces to seek for success, onetime assisting, and at another curbing the power of the Crown. Adverting to the Petition to Queen Anne, respecting Portsmouth and Chatham, he,remarked, that the House of Commons did not say that they would make it good. If they had stopped the other day at these words, would they have re ceived this ungracious answer ? Would the House of Carmitons have been sent out to nurse and told, you fools, you babies, take care, you will gef into a quarrel with bigger boys than you, who will lick you soundly."— (Hear, Hear.) After a few observations from Mr. Rose, Mr. W. Wynne, Mr. S. Thornton, and Mr. Whitbread, Colonel PALMER said that if the Right Honotir' - able Gentleman would allow this question to go to a Court of Justice, he would answer for Mr. Palmer, that he was ready to meet him there. He regretted, however, that the principal evidence was now no more. He wished to state to the House, that some time ago an offer of compromise had been made to him by a Gentleman commissioned, if not by the Right Hon. Gentleman, by his Administration. At that time he was about to embark with his regiment for foreign service ; he wrote to the Right Honourable Gentle man respecting the offer, but he did not acknowledge it; the person, however, he alluded to, was ready to declare that he was so commissioned. (Name, same, and criet of No.) He entreated the House to consider the state of the individual who made this application ; he was worn out with age, infirmity, and disappointment. He for his own part thanked Gon, that he had learned a lesson which adversity alone could teach; he did not ask any thing for him self. So help me God," said the Honourable Gen tleman, " I will never accept any thing as a boon which is refused to me as a right!" (Loud crier of hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he had no objection to bringing the question into a Court of Law, but he did not think that under circumstances it could be done. Regarding the offer of compromise, he had not the slightest re collection of it. The House then divided—Ayes 68 —Noes 161—Majority 93.—The motion was acc(it dingly rejected. On our re-entering the Gallery we found Mr. BANRES on his legs, speaking on the Irish rebacco POSTER supported the 'Sir JOHN NEWPORT opposed the Bill. Mr. PARNELL wished to introduce a clause for enabling every Catholic Officer and private to exer cise his religion discretionally, that they shall not at any time be compelled to attend Protestant churches. Mr. Secretary RYDER said, when he brought in the bill he wished it to be understood that they should exercise their religion; it was his intention to have that part adjusted to the satisfaction of the Catholic soldier. A:conversation took place between Mr. Bagwell, Mr. W. Smith, Mr. Herbert, Dr. Duig enan, Mr Babington, and Colonel Elliot, when the bill was or dered-to be read a third time on Wednesday next. The Irish Militia Families Bill went through a .Committee of the whole House, the Report of which was ordered to be received to-morrow.—Adjourned at half past one o'clock till this day. THE EVENING STAR. LONDOPT, FRIDAY, MM'S!. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. Cons. money 64M—for seeeent 65 S per Cent. Redueeel 8911.-4 per Cent. 7914 5 per Cer.t. Navy 97f—Exeheq. is. 4k. to 511. prem. Bonds 16i. 16e. pre.—OmMurn if pre. A private letter has been received from China, via America, stating, that the first division of the China ships was to sail from thence early in January, sup posed to consist of the WINCHELSEA, WFJCFORD, AR NISTON, EARL CAMDEN, ELPHINSTONE, CUFFNELLS, IVOODFORD, and ALFRED. The direct ships had ar rived at China about the sth December last. The DAVID SCOTT and CIRENCESTER bad not arrived, but were daily expected. No accounts of the OCEAN had been received so late as the 15th December. We are still unable to lay before our Readers any official details respecting the sanguinary Battle of the 16th ; but a short letter from one of the Aids-du- Camp of Marshal Bertwoun, is in town, dated on the 17th, in which he just states, that the Victory was complete, 'after a hard-fought and sanguinary Combat, for six hours and a half. The immense havoc among the Allies is ascribed to a sortie which was made by the Garriion of Badajoz, which fell upon the rear of the allied troops. There is no idea of the Battle being renewed the next day, as the French loss is estimated higher than that of the Allies; and their remaining force must, therefore, be unequal to a fresh contest, before the arrival of MAMMA% re- GUILDHALL. enforcement. .It i 4 feared that they will arrive before Lord WeLiartcrox's, as the road by Placentia is much better than that of the Allies by Castelbranco. It is to be hoped, however, that not only the detachment from Lord Wrti.t.voToN's army, but the 1 Ith Regiment of Horse, and the other reinforcements from England, would arrive by the 22d or 23d. We understand that the effect of the Shrapnel shot, in the 'Battle of the sth, was most decisive. Nothing, indeed, can be conceived more murderous, when directed against the advancing columns of an enemy. We have no doubt but that the same dreadful weapon was used by Marshal BE REWORD, on the I'3th. Some German Papers to a late date were received this morning, but they present no feature of impor tance. Some relaxation from the rigorous French De crees against the introduction 'f colonial pi educe into the towns e of the Confederation of the Rhine and Switzerland, had been granted, en condition of cor responding quantities of silk goods being exported of the manufacture of Nismes, Avignon, and Lyons. We have received a Copy of a Proclamation, dated Palermo, 10th March, in which strong allusions are made to some rumours which had been in circulation respecting a Peace having been secretly concluded between bis Sicilian Majesty and the French Go vernment. These reports are solemnly declared to be unfounded, and the Proclamation is filled with re newed protestations of the friendship of his Sicilian Majesty for Great Britain. A report is in circulation in the City that Marshal BERESFORD has been surrounded by the French under MASSFXA and SOULT, and that his army has been annihilated. We have only to say that no intelligence of this description has been received at the Government Offices, nor are we even told on what authority the above gloomy rumour rests. • Yesterday a numerous meeting of the Livery of London was held, to confirm the Resolution of the Common Council. granting the use of the Guildhall to a Meeting of Friends of Parliamentary Reform, to be held on the 3d of June. It was with considerable difficulty that Mr. Warts-. Mara obtained a hearing, loud cries of 0 . 17 . having been vociferated from several parts of the Ball. He began by charging the enemies of Reform with bxa citing these disturbancef. He then went into the va rious arguments of several, public writers on the sub ject of Parliamentary Reform. All that was wanted was firmness and unanimity; and the example which the Dissenters had lately given of unioo, against a measure which aXected then: Body, a Ifirda an excel lent practical illustration of the utility and effect of union. Firmness, joined to temperance end modera tion, would at last infallibly prevail. (.101e :e, mixed • with cries of ?f, ) Mr. \Vat-rum/or then read a string of Resolutions, - which* will be found subjoined. Mr. Alderman ATKINS Cann forward aMidst ap platt,se awl Lissi!;g. He observed, that he had signed a Petition to the Common Council, begging them to reconsider their . vote; and his short reason for doing so was this, that none but the 80 Members who voted .for the grant were aware beforehand of the moLien being brought forward, and consequently there was then no opportunity of taking the general sense of that body. He objected to the whole of the Resolu tions, which he thought could never meet with their approbation. He thought the word 6 6 concur," in • one of them, particularly objectionable.—( Cris: 1,1;1; of) —The Worthy Alderman, after various attempts to be farther heard, was at last obliged to sit down. • Mr. Alderman Woon then attempted to obtain a , hearing, but was perfectly inaudible from the noise which prevailed. The question was then put on all the Resolutions, and they were declared by the Loan MAYOK to be carried in the affirmative. The number of hands raised against them was, however, very considerable. The following were the Resolutions voted : SMITH, fifAYOR. la a Meetleg or Assembly of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Liverymen, of the several Companies of the City of Louden, In Common Hall assembled, at the Guiklisell of the said City, on 'Thursday, the 30th day of May, 1811, Resolved; That the Livery of London have,, for the last 40 years, felt and declared the corrupt and inadequate state of the Representa tion of the People in Parliament to be the great source of al our national grits/maces and misfortunes. That to this cause alone can be ascribed the unjust and unfor-' tunate War with America, at the close of whisk .they declared in Common Had, s' ;Uhat our excellent Constitution appeared in no circumstances mere grievously defaced than in the unequal Representation of the People in Parliament, which continual ex. perience had proved to be no less produtive of calamities to this ezountry, than depredatory to the Rights of Englishmen.". 'I hat the snhicrittent enormous increase of Debt and Taxes, the increased and increasing Corruptions and Abuses of the Stale, end all our grievances and misfortune', arise from the same cause, and convince us that a Constitutional Reformation can no lodger with safety he delayed. That we consur in opinion with the Lord Treasurer Burleigh, "'That England can never be ruined but by a Parliament." That we agree with that enlightened Philosopher, Statesman, and Christian, Locke, " That emplOying the force, treasure, and offices of the Government to corrupt the Electors, is to cut up the Government by the roots, and poison the very fountain of public security." That we agree with that great Lawyer, Patriot, and Statesman, Lord bomers,' " That it belongeth to our Parliaments, as being one of the great ends, as well as reason for whiels they ought to be frequently called and assembled, to enquire into and punish the crime of Judges and all others employed by and ueder the King, iu the executive part of the Government, Irons whence it is, as the House of Conisatont, among other capatides to which they sit and act, are by the Constitution to be the great inquest of the Kingdom, to search into alt the oppressions and injustices of the King's Ministers, so the House of Lords among their 'Ds venal other rights and privileges, stand clothed with the power and authority of the High Court of Judicature of the Nation, to punish those who have misbehaved themselves in all courts." That we agree with Baron Montesquieu, " That the English Constitution will perish whenever the Representative Power is more corrupted than the Executive." That we agree with the great Earl of Chatham, "That Par liament must reform Itself from within, or it will be reformed from without with a vengeance." That we agree with that venerable Statesman and Lawyer, Lord Camden, " That Taxation, without Representatioa, is tyranny." That we agree with Judge Blackstone, " That if any chime were to be desired, it was in favour de mote equal Represeuta atm of the People in Parliament." That we agree with Mr. Pitt, whose words were exemplified in his own Administratioti, "'Tat without a Reformation in Parliament, neither the hberty of the subject can be preserved, nor can we expect to hews a virtuous or disinterested Admini stration." That we agree with Mr, Fox, " That unless there is an entire radical Reform, not only in the House of Commons, but in every branch of the Executive Government, there is no comet for this country to enjoy any blessing, or even to remain safe long; and that this Returns can never be obtained, unless there is a general and unequivocal expresennein its favour by the People at large." That we agree with Mr. Burke, "'That the virtue, spirit, and essence of a House of Commons consists in its being the express image of the feelings of the nation. It is not instituted to be a controul upon the People, as of late it has been taught by a doc trine of the most peruicious nature and tendency ; it was intend ed as a coutroul for the People." That agreeing, as we do, with the above authorities as well as the concurrent opinions of the greatest Lawyers, Historians, and Statesmen, which might be adduced; sod observing, as we have done, thealaily and lamentable departure from the principles of the Constitutiou—the rapid and unceasing progress of over whelming influence and corruption, which threaten its overthrow, , it is with the highest satisfaction, we see a considerable number of the most respectable characters in rank, talents, and property, new standing forward to endeavour to remove thine formidable evils and to remote the Cpnstltutlon to its true principles, by a Returns in the Representation of the People in Parliament. That we do therefore highly approve of 'the Vote of the last Court of Common Council, and do hereby concur with them in granting the use of the Guildhall on the 3d of June next, for the purpose of holding a General Meeting of the Friends of Parhav mentary Reform. That without attaching improper motives to such of our Fels low-dtizens as may have been misled by the misrepresentations Rumours of an unfavourable description, we are sorry to st,tte, are in circulation respecting the state of his MAJESTY'S health. We are unable to ascertain their accuracy, farther than as they appear to be in some degree confirmed by the circumstance of his MAJESTY not being out for the last two days, although yesterday was favourable for his taking his usual ex ercise. The QueeN's Council determined, on Wed nesday, that other Physicians should be called in, and we understand Dr. AiNSLIE, Dr. SYMONDS, &c. went yesterday to Windsor. The Learned Judge of the Court of Admiralty yes terday morning delivered a most elaborate, and yet a most perspicuous and decided opinion on the case of the Fox, and certain other Americaa sh;ps, detained under the Orders in Council; but the final judgment is deferred until the Republican Charge d'Affaires shall have had an opportuni tyof comthunicatingto Ministec the late, decision of BONAPARTE on the vessels of the Uni:ed States provisionally sequestrated and surrender ed, as mentioned in our Paper of Tuesday last. Sir WILLIAM SCOTT observed, that as the matter now stood, there was no possibility of proceeding to any other sentence than that of their condemnation; and that the only means by which such a result could be avoided was, by procuring not only a revocation of the Orders in Council, but, a retrospective clause, appli. cable to this property, at the disposal of the Court. •_ We apprehend that there is not theleast ground of expectation that his Majesty's Ministers will assent to this change in the commercial system they have thought fit to adopt ; and in the last note from Mar quis Wrixtu.xv on the subject, it will be recollected, that not only the abrogation of the Decrees of Berlin and Milan will be necessary to authorize such a change, but also the re-establiskment of the trading relations of this country upon its ancient footing av'th other European powers. FALMOVTIO, MAY 28.—Sailed the Mullet schooner, with a Mall for the Leeward Islands.—Wind W. PORTSMOUTH, MAY MA.—Sailed his Majesty's ship Ramulos, with a convoy for Spain and Portugal; the Vulture, on a cruize ; and the Hawk, Rapid, sod Medusa, for of Chetbourg.—The Crane gives instructions for Gibraltar. TORBAY, MAY 25.—1 n addition to the ships of which I infor med you yesterday, is arrived the Dromedary storeship.—This day arrived the ship Scarthingwcll, lobs Ware master, front Portsmouth, bound to Gibraltar. novae, MAY 30.—Two colliers were captured last night by four French privateers • and they this morning drove on shore, into St. Margaret's B ay, three coasters—two of them have gut of and gone for Ramsgate, the other also got off and proceeded on her voyage.—The Ramsgate letter says that the two vessels above alluded to belong to Yarmouth, and were loaded with grain for Liverpool. Their names are the I.ively and Wodehouse. DEAL, Mae 90.—Came down from the River his Majesty's ships Queen Charlotte, Oberon, Alarm, and several other out ward-bound—ArrivethePalailx, Gibson, from Canis ; spoke on the 234 inst. his Majesty's skip Arethu.a, with the East-India convoy.—Three privateers have drove on shore,. the Venus and two other vessels. YAR 74011 - i - u, Mar 30.—0 n Tuesday last, the Louisa, 400 tons hbrthen, Captain L. Pettfrsou drove on liappesburgh Sand ildp and cargo totally lost. •She was from Frederickshalf, with a Cargo of deals. The Captain and ship's company (live in num ber) were saved by the assistants of the boats from the shore,c Shipi of war as per last, except the Briseis gun-brig, which is sailed on a cruize.—Wind N.E. The Severn, Drew, arrived at fristol yesterday, from Nevis, salted the 116th ult. and spoke the following vetsels; vas.—On the 11th inst. In lat. 35. 54. long. 55. 31. the A2ollo, Hoddell, from. Jamaica, out 41 days; on the lith, in tatr32. ea. long. 43. 35. the Sonia% from Trinidad to Greenock, out 28 days; and on the same day, the Charles and Annabelle, from Tobago to London, in company., . . ARRivtD—ln the Clvde, Camilla, Orr, from Barbadoes. At and unfounded calumnies of interested, designing, and unprim Cork, Trial, Luce; and the Hercules, Stone, from Wilmington. cipled Jobbers, Contractors, atd ?lacemeti, who have long fed, In the River, Golden Fleece , —, from Charleston ; Harvest, and still hope to feed upon our taxes, we cannot sufficiently re- Fonts r, from the Brazils; and Diana, Jones, from Wexford. At probate their base attempts to divert the public nimil irom this Honduras, tiamilton,Thompson, from London. At Lisbon , Pa- 1 grea national question, to sow the seeds of dissention, and by triot, Forster, from Limerick; Friends, Robertson, from Leith ; 1 every possible means t..) excite, whilst, at the same time, they by- London, —, from Jersey; Comet, Almy, from Westport. 1 pocritically express their apprehension of tumult and alarm. The Coaches from most of the principal towns within 100 miles • Resolved—['hat a Deputation of Liverymen be now appointed of the Metropolis have been engaged for upwards of a fortnight i . to present the Resolutions of this day to the Court of Common past, to bring persons to town who mean to make two complete.; Council on Friday next, requesting their concurrence therein, as holidays ; on MONDAY, to purchase Lottery Tickets and Shares, I well as their co-operation with the Livery of London, in their which on TOZSDAY morning, the King's Birth-Day, may be : endeavours to obtain a reform in the Representation of the Pm drawn senate of the SIXTY Capital Prizes, to add a cheerful splen- Pie in Puliamen i • door in the evening at the PRINCII Rcoasar's Gala, Carleton-; Resolved—l hat Messrs. Billinee, Bromley, Brackett, Cole, House. VEseo, Thorpe, Bedder, fiumsted, Scott, Peacock, Stevenson, Coax MARICZT, MAY 31.—This day the Market has few fresh keareciti, Rosser, Stooks, Pickard, Manning, Piper, Llstell, Banks', . 1 arrivals of Wheat, but the quantities on h;nd rather considerable, I wort ' and Letts, be the said Deputation. presuming on further foreign supplies tends to the effect of new I Resolved unaninmusly That the Thanks of this Common Hall be given to the Right Hon. the Lord Mayor, frit. his upright sales being made, apd those at somewhat less—Barley at little va- I and impartial conduct on all occasions, and particularly foe tbe rlatlhn—Mali extreme heavy sale-Peas and Beans of each des firm and independent manner in which be bas, in the press* in. cripdon nearly at last prices—There are hut short supplies of resisted all attempts to iodmidate hint in the eiwordbe of Oats, and also waiting further arrivals few sales are made , and . stance ' NV GYODTTAORPS. thus nearly as our last—llour hardly supports late pekes, i his 41 '1' --- - --- -- '-: Ad --- - ' ,11