Star. — London, England, 1811-03-20 00:00:00

PF S-4. • • In l SAO, It was about 5e50,7%,792. The the interest, the Sinking was sekt7SINA to ,~" *.dßr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 19. The discussions upon the evidence, site. adduced in , the long pending ease of the Banbury Peerage, were open in the Calm mince of Privileges this day; Lord WatsiNCISAM in the Chair. The LARD CHANCELLOR sledleseed hie seseeleareestspes the cue at some length. bat moved no proposition thereon. Lard ERSKINE pillared, and h; a forcible and energetic 1117tof aensiderahle length, delivered his opinions in favour of imant ; and concluded by moving as s Resolution of the Commb tee " that the Petitioner hes made geed his slake." The elainsant of the harem in question is Genera Revolves, of Banbury. adjourned the debate, and farther teo an Thursday. resumed. and after prayers were read, the private. were forwarded in their Chem the Marine Mutiny lilt wu passed, and the SUk htlanufacturereWages Committee, and *as reported without any venue only p roduced ie deficit of 000. The Right alluded to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. roster), in 111C4, in which he had noticed the decrease in the revenue at that period, and had stand it would not in any future period be any better. In that opinion he (Sir John) had concurred, and to convince the House that the pregnostication of each was correct, he would state the produce of teases laid on in theiast year ' to th ew that the Right Hon. Gen tleman had calcu lated their amount much beyond what they uctualtyptrithieed. For instance, the cal culations were as follow : The Duties wa Wise ...4130/10 0 produced only 444,0011 Additloaal Tei Duty... $l,OOO 'MOO. Currants and Raisins—. 10,000 %WO. Window Duty ...... --... 6,000. I • Lewin, Jr.n 35,000 ,—..........---.. £l,OOO. itauslock & Adventism:l.9o,oM 14,600. Theme defalcations in the estimated amount of pro. duet, with some other minor taxes, made the to tal deficit in the last year's taxes, nearly 4200,0011,1 and he was justified in asserting. upon taking the average for three years, that the total deficiency its the Revenue was 81,700,000. It Inlet be said that the defalcation arose from the difficulties under Ai* the commerce of the country was placed ; but - that was not the case, it was the result of over-tatit tion.—Articlee of luxury were so heavily borthen ed, that the poverty of the people prevented the consumption, and consequently the revenue was injured; by imposing additional taxes 'the preceding one was lost—so that by pouring in a dropmore than the vessel could hold, it was lost ! He then went into a comparative statement of the 'produce of the. revenue at the period in which he held the office now occupied by the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Foster) and the present period, contending, that duo, ring the time he officiated, the taxes produced much more than he calculated. The expenceof collecting the revenue had greatly increased since 1807. At that time the expenee was about £41+7,000. Last year it amounted to X 720,000, of which sum more than 8120,000 was absorbed by the two Boards of Cos toms' and Excise for incidental expences, and distri buted among the clerks, the soperaunuated list, for buildings of various kinds, and for new docks (which by the bye, in Englaad were erected, not at Govern. ment, but at individual expence). Among the items of charges was one for stationery. amounting to sc2B,oou, the charge on England was only 410,000. The duty on leather in 1799, produced 451,000.; and in 1811, a period of eleven years, when it might be supposed that the population had increased, the produce had been only £41,000. The Right Ho nourable Baronet, after stating some other supposed grievances, declared, that in submitting his proposi tions to the House, he did not wish to compromise them to form any hasty opinion on the subject ; all he required was, that the matters referred to should undergo a complete investigation ; he therefore trust ed, that the Resolutions would he pas s ed and allowed to be printed, and on s.,me future day the Gentlemen opposite would be prepared to thew that his state ment was not incorrect. He then mowed Resolutions, embodying in substance the statements he bad previ ously made, namely " Resolved, That the funded debt had trebled front what it was in 1800, and on the sth January 1811, was .C 89.738,792, to which was attached a permanent charge for interest. sinking fund, and management of 24,273,000, to meet this charge the Revenue produced in the last year, only 23,614,000; leuviug a deficit of £659,000, &e. &c. On the first Resolution being put, • • Mr. FOSTER rose, and observed that the state menu which the Right Honourable Baronet made were not correct, and therefore he could -not allow them to pass. At the same time he could not help remarking that the Right Honourable Baronet was the principal hero of the piece brought forward this night. Admitting, as he di.l, the necessity of a strict inquiry into the situation of Ireland, he must he al lowed to say that the Right H• nourable B it net had mistaken the time for intrt.ducing toe qu..stion, as there was not one paper before the H. use on which to come to a proper decision upon the troth ol the statements. ',With respect however to the facts state* by the Right Honourable Baronet, as to the de ici. ency of the revenue in the last year, he had only to state that it did actually produce ws,sso,ooo, the dd . .- ference between this sum and that mentioned by the Right Honourable Baronet was occasioned by his having forgot to add to his account the extraordinary resources ; for instance, the profits of the last lotteries, and many of the repayments. From this statement the House would perceive the deficiency was not so great. In making this statement, however, he did not wish to be understood as arguing upon the diffe rence of 2 or £300,000 in the statements in favour of with the coder, that, as the attendance oti be foil, he should on that day move . the Coroner's inquest, on the Body who died to the Marshelsea Prison, . i g would more fay bring the cireum- UM?, the outline of which Ito had stated, He did not imagine that any typos'. t motion, bit be 'eve this notice for e had' stated. me routine Jausinoss, their Lordships ad to-rmirrow forestomr, peaparutory to their xis WaisndnnerAbliey„whece a Sermon a Bishop of, Litebteld and Coventry; but day u wharthe Prince Regent's Message owasiderationt . 1 --4. i HOUSE OF COMMONS. ' the second reading of the Western Fishery Bill, on the ino. *On of Mr. CALCSAFF, was tied for Monday the 2:3th of 'Kenna CieneraIGASCOINE preowned two Petitions, one from the Slip Owners, end the other frees the inhabitants of Liverpool, in Savour of the Deal Bill. The Cotenterciai Road Bill was read a second time, and com- Illitted for to-morrow. Mr. WHARTON presented several Accounts respecting the Danes of Excise on Wines, dm and also Estimates of certain Sam meessary fee Public 011 ices. On the motion of Mr. HUSKISSON, the Total Amount of alb of Exchange, issued by the. Bank pre...loot to the issue of spantidi Dollars, were urderesl to be laid before the Hoene. Also any Corr...poosleoce which may have passed between the Corn inistrtmen id Treamry and Customs respecting the Illicit Exp art of Bullion. Also, for a Copy of any notice given by the Bank, ' *sanded 'won th.• Authori•T of Government, as to the Issuing of Stormed Dollars a' the rate of Ss. ed. eath. The Honoerable Gentleman gave notice, that be should on the 2d of April, move Ice &return of the Quarterly Commercial Discount from the Bank. TUE mon OF THE PARISEI OF SPILSBY. Sir JAMES GRAHAM moved the second read. ins of the Bill for the better Government of the Poor of fipilsby, in the county of Lincoln. On the question being put, Sir SAMUEL ROmltLy wished to call the atten. Coe or the House to this bill, which though professedly , of a private nature, was of great public importance. It tontained in it clauses of a most extraordinary nature, such as, he believed, never before found their way in to any act of Parliament. One of the clauses to Which he mainly objected, went to enable the Master of the poor house to punish the unfortunate pauper by solitary confinement, without any limit to the pe riod, if on any occasion he should misbehave himself. Another of the clauses provided that if any pauper, damaged the house, or any part thereof, he should bet adjudged a felon, and be punished as such. There, was another of the clauses, which (said Sir Samuel) ' Was unexampled in this country for the arbitrary toles :. it lard down. $y it die Governor or Master of the r poor-house was enabled to let out the paupers for hire .: ' rte daily labour, in the same manner as the Negroes " .In the West Indies are let out on job-work, at the fate, perhaps, of nice-peace or one shilling per hour, according to the quanrity of work which his feeble and exhausted strength might enable him to perform. A sort or hiring which was perfectly.novel in the ar. tengetnent of poor-houses ; but this was not all, for it was provided that if atter he had exhausted his toil, be should not return without delay, or within a certain time, which the Governor might think proper, then be iltould beliable to punishment. (Hear, hear.)— . There was a clause also for contracting for supplying Abe houses of industry, in the county with these poor slaves, so that any parish in the county might obtain ff'cl this great mart of pauper-slaves a constant sup. •y. (Hear, hear.) These were the principal regu: tons it nd penalties inflicted on the poor ; but now erne the lenient clauses which appertained to the toaster's stippOved ill conduct. One of the clauses yespecting him, provided that, if be should be found guilty of erubezzlieg or purloining, or in other wird% stealing any of the goods or chattels, his offence (greater because entrusted confidentially) should be visited with this punishment only—namely, restitution three -fold in amount to the value ro b b ed. ( Hear, hear.) Pr &mod after noticing some other minor clauses rated. his intention of opposing it on the 3d reading. Sir JAMES GRAHAM declared that he did not know such clauses were in the bill, or he certainly should not have moved the second reading. He did not believe the Hon. Members for Boston and for Derby, who had taken charge of the bill, and in Whose absence he moved, were acquainted with what had bccn stated by the Hon. and Learned Gentle man, he should, therefore, in order to give the parties an opportetnity to consider this extraordinary bill, wove, That it be read a 2J time this day se'nnight. .After a few observations front Mr. George Vansit tan and Mr. Resnick, the second reading of the bill was postponed till this slay se'nnight. MARINE MUTINY BILL. A Message from the Lords announced that their Lordships had agreed to the Royal Marine Mutiny Lill, with sonic amendments, to which they desired • the concurrence of this House. THE REVENUE OF IRELAND. , Bir JOHN NEWPORT roseto call the attention If rue to the financial situation of Ireland, g; o Unproductive in respect to its revenu e . —; ' ' Hon Baronet read that part of the speech ° tilt the Lords C o mmissioners. which admitted that the • -yeveasse was deficient, and he stated that he should prove it was totally unable to meet thee reven chargeue s o w as the ,public debt ; that in point of fact th wow deficient 5e6.50,000. The fact being so, it was high time to inquire into the state of things, and to apply a remedy to meet the deficiency. Whetheri that deficiency arose from the inadequate means of supplying the tales, or in the mode of collecting them.; Cle thew not, but this was most c ertainl y tree, that! 'there ivits - a great deficit. In respect to the debt ofl Ireland, that had Increased - 1n latter years materially. Whigs the last ten years it had trebled in 141110U11t.... the produce of the revenue, as contrasted Right Honourable Baronet's statements ; for he was prepared to admit that it required all the abilities awl attention of Parliament to the subject. When it was asserted that in the gross the failures in the receipts were enormous, it was sufficient to call for examina• ,k . 74; % ; • his intentions io respect tn Ireland ; therefore that the Honourable Baronet, by withdraw. that opinion, should Lope (though, for ing his motion, would prevent the disagreeable neces. ha& stated, he could not agree to the sity of moving the previous question ujon it. have his concurrence it devising some Mr. BANKS declared, that a matter of greater relief of that country. Ho had no . importance, or one which required more serious con• - . - wish sideration, had been - ted in that House.- opposing the Resoludas.' then a never „ agitato_ not to hold out to the public a statement'd facts as- It was most material that it should be investigated sinned, and not borne out in evidence. The better at a time when the House could act on the result of way would be ice the Right Hon. Baronet to with- ' that i n vestigation ; and that time must be an early draw his motion, and wart until a p ro p er euquiroi iwerio dof the Session. He thought greater aise des could be made.' He assured the House that he had ;to the Honourable Baronet, whose object was im bed frequent conferences on the subject of the otos. ' qmstiooably gained. The aeentioe of the House was lion of Ireland with his Right Hon. Friend near him, completely attracted to this important subject, and tad the with they felt in common was to ameliorate could not be diverted from it. At the same time he the condition of that country. The Right Hon. should infinitely peeler the examination by a Seloet Osedeman then adverted to the taxes of the last , Committee. He trusted that no time would be lost year. As to the tax on windows : the view which he in the appointment of that Committee, and at least . . in proposing the addition, was to affect as little that it would be formed before the Easter Recess. If at possible the manufacturer and the middle ranks of his opinion had any weight with the Hon. Baronet, Life—considering that those inhabiting houses having he would advise him to withdraw his motion ; for it leas than seven windows were not in a condition to would be a matter of regret that the .House sloth parthe tax. Now, with respect to the collection of divide, when in fact thore was no actual division of those taxes which had been described as deficient in opinion. He was glad to hear of the improvement produce, he had to observe, that they were collected of the agriculture and trade of Ireland, but woe zoo. annually. He had calculated that the window-tax nished at the phenomenon of an attendaut failine is would produce etft.s,ooo : it had actually produced the to...venue. This failtire bootie:it:tea to negligence 000,000, a portion of it not having been collected, to in the collection ; and he was persuaded thot the see the amount of i'6,000, but which would ultimately venue might be made much more productive w d that correct. The Post Office Tax only produced ,615,000, taxes, similar to those called war tares in England, and it should have produced 417.500; for it must be . were most applicable to Ireland. They were colkc remembered, that the tares having been proposed in ted at a cheaper rate, they fell with a diminished June of the'last year, could not, of course, embrace weight on the lower orders, and there was compote more than the half-year's collection ; and therefore, tively but few means of evading diem. Reverting when the Right Hon. Baronet talked of 035 . 000 , he to th e appointment of a Comm ittee, lie stated it as was calculating upon the year's account.' As to the his opinion, that it could not be delayed will any Advertisement Duty, the reason it produced so little prospect ot real advantage beyond the latter end of was, the printers declared. on the tax being passed, next month. that it was of no use for the public to send their ad. Mr. }OSTER, in explanation, declared that, as yertisements, for the additional duty would ruin them, soon as the motion before the House should be dis. and their papers could have no circulation. That posed of, it was his intention to give notice of the alarm was now over, and the duty under that parti- , day on which he would move the appointment of a cular head was rapidly rising. As to the receipts.. Committee. bills, aad notes, these would tins they had Mr. PONSONBY said, be did not rise to conch on been estimated at. The Banr produce leadawd had core- the situation of Ireland, or on the best course of pm pounded with Government for the duty as applicable eroding to be adopted with respect to that country. to their issues, at £5,000, before the addition was ° These considerations he would postpone to the po made. They now offered £2,000 more. The failure per period. All things considered, he thought it in the wine duties was owing to the state of the coup- ; would be advisable for his Hon. Ft iend to withdraw try loan whence it was imported not being able to his motion ; but he trusted that his Hon. Friend would produce it, and from the state of commercial credit.. move for the immediate appointment of a Committee, no in respect to other importations, among which at least not later than this, or the beginning of nest was tea, to which the Right Hon. Baronet alluded; month. As to the presence of Irish Members, he that, however, was now rapidly inspoetiog. Time ° did not see the necessity of waiting for their return; failures in the receipts of the revenue were principally : for he declared, that he would rather see the majority to be attributed to the decrease in the imports; and : of the Committee composed of British, than of Irish the symptom was, that the people had not the I, limbers. If the appointment of the Committee means of laying out their money. This had 'Demi*. ',were postponed until the returnof all the Irish Mena vied the decrease. The Right Hon. Gent lemanthen ; hers, and until the production of all the official de drew a comparison between the exports of holand 1 cements, the consetpience must be , either that the and England, and observed , that though Ireland was ! Committee could come to no copclusion in the present not able to keep pace with the expences of the United ; Session, or that the Session must he inconveniently Empire, yet in the course of the last ten years. the , prolonged for the sole purpose of allowiitg the Com balance was one-sixth in favour of Ireland , with re. i•rnittee time to make their report. spect to imports. Having shortly noticed some of the ' Mr. W. SMITH was for the early appointment of other topics upon which the Right Hon. Baronet had ! a Committee, and for imparting to Ireland all the po. touched, he again stated his wish for full inquiry, and i litical advantages enjoyed by the other parts ot the until then, he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would United Empire. i not press his motion. I Lord CASTLEREAGH and Mr. PONSONBY Lord CASTLEREAGH concurred in the opinion I , severally explained. that nothing but a full consideration of the subject and i Sir J. NEWPORT wnnld not take up the time of the union of the wisdom of both sides of the House,' the House by answering the many observations which could place the finances of Ireland in the state in :had been made in the coarse of the evening, and which it was desirable they should be placed. Hai which were capable of refutation, but would content, thought with his Right Hon. Friend, that it would be i with the leave of the House, to withdraw his motion, inexpedient to adopt the proposed Resolution, as the on the direct understanding that he should be at li. foundation of future proceedings, liable as they might betty immediately to move the appointment of a Se. be to cavil and objection ; but he was happy to hear lect Committee. that his Right Hon. Friend was anxious that the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEI. whole of the subject should undergo a thorough in- sa i d he would certainl y consent to the withdrawing v s stigation. He was of opinion that the mode in ,of the motion of the Honourable Baronet, but net on England of raising part of the supplies within the year ; the prescribed terms. He was proceeding to slue might be adopted in Ireland with considerable advan- . that the present was not the precise time for the ale rage. In England there was a tax on property—in Ire. pointment of the Committee, when he was interrupt land only on consumption. , ed by— Mr. PARNELL was of opinion that the fi nancial' The SPEAKER, who observed , t ha t the q uestion difficulties of Ireland were attributable to the erroneous whether an Monotarable Member ..hould or should ratio of contribution settled by the Noble Lord at the nut have leave to withdraw a motion, was not debate- Union. Of the eleven millions of public expenditure able. If any single Member dissented, leave could in Ireland, a great port was devoted to the payment not be granted. The Speaker then put the question, of the interest (if loans borrowed since the Union.— and, no dissenting voice being heard, declared, that It was impassible to regard this or any other great the Honourable Baronet had leave to withdraw his political tailine in Ireland without being convinced of motion. the necessity of making the people of Ireland sat i s fied The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, with their Government. I observed, that he certainly meant to express his di:- Mr. MAY was glad to find that all parties concur. sent if the leave was to be granted on the understaioh red in the expediency of an examination of the sub., in g wished for by the Honourable Baronet . ject- He expressed his conviction , that the.agricul. The SPEAKER replied, that the Right Honour. lure, the trade, the habitations. and the riches of Ire- able Gentleman ought to have marked his dissent by land had been trebled since the Union. The civili- an audible negative. zotion of the country also had been considerably im- Sir J. NEWPORT'S original motion hoing thrre particularly in the North of Ireland. He be. fore withdrawn, - he proceeded immediately to move -- other PADers, pre,rwed -, proved, heved there was no country where the taxes were more " That t►w several Accounts _ .'apers, . cheerfully paid ; and he attributed the defalcation of th a e bu li c u i u n ise duril l :g ld this Ses . s t i u u r n e of P !..* . ir a c rl•ailie tit, re l ative i 3 •• the revenue to negligence in the collection, and to the t md, be referred to t'? public a Se►t:ct Committee; 41;i1 that the C.::m; , 1 prevalence of illicit distillation. He hoped that the be instructed to examine intu the cane, a:AI to re2J:t tlte.: H.m. Baronet would be induced to withdraw his mo- . optidoe to the House." order that the sub; ' might be submitted to' Mr. ,Secretary RYDER thought the prozee.ling of .tion. The Right Honourable Gentleman then pro- tion, in eject ceeded to examine the statements of the Right Hon , the i n vesti g ation of a Committee. : the Honourable Baronet one atlas most r extraorsi Baronet, and first wi ld out to the hopes which he The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER nary he had eter witnessed F oster ) Parliament. His Rizht (Mr. F o ster had held out in 1804. In reference to observed, that both sides of the House agreed that I lonourable Friend (Mr. bad declared, t;i4t those hopes he wished the House to recollect that he !the subject was of such importance as to render it ne- if the Honourable Baronet would withdraw his reso had expressly calculated the resources as arising f r om cessary without loss of time to proceed to an inquiry lutions, be would propose the appointment of a Com a full peace establishment. He had then proposed to.I upon it. He should regret if the Hon. Baronet per- mittee. Upon this the Honourable Baronet, into raise the Revenue every year su ffi cient to meet the ; severed in proposing his Resolutions, as his Right whose mind the idea of referring the subject to the exigencies of the year, and it had answered his expec. I Honourable Friend had demonstrated that even were c onsideration of a Committee had never before ent e r' Canon until the last year, when most certainly it fell they completely accurate (which they were nut), Par- ed, withdrew his Resolutions, and immediately moved rapidly. In 1804, the amount of the revenue, taken at haulm; could not entertain them at present, as they for the appointment of a Comm:ltee ; thus taking the £4,500,000, which it nearly produced, was enough were founded on documents which were not yet in business out of the hands of his Right Hon. Friend. to pay the iuterest of the debt,—Now with respect to the hands of the Members. The proposition them- . Mr. MAY deprecated the introduction of any party the deficiency in the last . year, that was to be fore was premature. Another ground of objection to trick into the discussions on a subject of such vital placed to several causes. The Excise Duties ope- the Resolution was, that they described only a part importance. rated for only part of the year; as to the Spirit Duty, .of the fact, and abstainesi from that counter.staternent . The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER the increase was not more than £450,000, when in ! which would satisfy the country. His Right Honour- agreed that these party tricks were bat very credita fact, if it had not been for the clandestine distilleries, !able Friend had shewn that the average revenue of ble. Although he bowed to the decision ('f the Chair, the returns would have been snore than enough to !the three last years in Ireland was £4,500,000. It he certainly conceived that before the question v:as discharge the interest on the debt. Taking it for • was not fair, therefore, to take the revenue of the last put on the leave to be granted to the Honourable l Aranted, upon a fair calculation, that the consump. year alone, vad to state it at ift3;6oo,ooq. He ap.• Baronet to withdraw his motion, he had expressed. ` [ - tion of this article was 6,000,000 of gallons, to w in prehended that the course pointed out by his /tight as clearly as he could express it, his dissent to that might be added 2,000,000 of gallons distilled in psi- Honourable Friend, would be tnost expedient, namely • leave, if required, on the understanding that the til -1 vale, making in the whole 8,000,000 of gallons, at that as soon as the terminating of the Assizes in Ire- nourable &meet was to be allowed inuned 4 c 2l Y t ° Is. 6d. per gallon, would produce £1,000,0 0 0 eta-, land would allow the Members for t hat count r y , to move the.a pp aintment of a Committee, altiough on ling ; but it it could be c harged with a duty as iet I retorts trs: theittarliementary duty, a Select Commit- the queition being put •he had not said o No" so England, of .7s. 6d. then, the calculation would 'tie feet shOuld he*tkMated to inTektigate the whole of soon as' ht ought. By this error,,liqwevir, he did net /0,000,000 sterling. He was disposed to jive:the :this great sub j ect, an I to afford to the House the dim conceive himself bound to accede to the motion oldie Right Holt. Baronet every degree of credit for tba 'on which they might afterwards act. He trusted, Honourable Baronet. .• Wing of opinion t hat the at/. commonly called Earl of Bats% Their Lord*hir then adieu sideration of the case till Thin The Howe thin regaiaed. Bitla upon the table, chiefly respective stages. Ainogg tl rend a third tints and ►awed, passed through a Connah mendment. Lord HOLLAND gave s Thar' nest was likely to to Isaac tee evidence given at eel the sinfciitiinate dcb•or w printed; which proceeding a Mantes or that unhappy case, to their Lordships' view. H • tie° would be wade to his s I that day, for the reason he 11; After disposing.( game v Parsed ter forqsa, till to.m* piseadiag Divine Seevioe is V will be preached by the Ann i for businos, till Thursday t babe taken into conaidensti \ Lit Je30;00 0 ,000. and iwnr War sapaiitiness of charge upon that siffili tell rift fide beiag of ti king Fund, and the manormihent, as masons he meet this charge the coadinary Yea resatations), to d 0,614,000, so that them wis a cleans for the The Right Hon. Baronet then other view in o V . I a a t t 3 1 "I