Star. — London, England, 1819-02-09 00:00:00

ik • and his opinion.was, the discussion at present, espe cially in such a House, wore better adjourned. Lord KENYON expressed his willingness, after *hat he had heard, to postpone his motion further, until that day se'nnight. The discussion continued, but assumed rather an explanatory character. The Earl of LAUDERDALE repeated his leading objections to proceeding farther at present ; and some detailed explanation took place between his Lordship and the Reverend Prelate (of CHESTER), respecting what had occurred relative to the Petitions which were brought forward. In the course of the conversation, EarIGROSVENOR specifically proposed that the discussion should be adjourned until this day fortnight ; and after some further remarks from one or two of their Lordships, the questiom were put, when that for adjourning the consideratioi, of the motion (as originally proposed), until that day sinnight, was negatived ; and the amended propmition for postponing the discussion until this day fortnight was agreed to by their Lord ships.—Adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. H. DAVIS presented a Petition against the Bristol Gas Bill.—Ordered to be referred to the Committee on the Bill. Mt. COURTNEY presented a Petition, signed by a great number of the inhabitants of Exeter, in avour of a Bill for snaking a new hlarket. Ordered to lie on the table. The Report of the Committee on the proposed new Market was then brought up, read, and ordered to be re-committed. General GASCOYNE brought in a Bill for facilitating the recovery of small debts at Liverpool.—Read a first time. The Liverpool new Aluket Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. The Report of the Committee of Ways and Means was brought up and agreed to. The till providing for the Care qf his Majesty's Person was read a third time and passed. Mr. HARVEY gave notice for Wednesday, that he would move for a Return of the number of Exchequer Informationi, under the Excise Laws, up to January 5, 1819, distinguishing those cases in which a compromise had been made, and those i:: which verdicts had been obtained. Sir M. W. RIDLEY wished to move for a Return of the number of Surcharges made on Farmers, as Licensed Horse. dealers, distinguishing the Appeals made, and their results. If it were not object: d to, he would make the Motion now. The CHA NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to . the Motion being pressed now. Sir M. W. RIDLEY then give notice that ke should bring forward a Motion on the subject on Thursday. yaw W RITS. The SPEAKER bad received a.letter from Mr. Lentz Po. •rzn, stalog, that having been returned for two places, the City of Armagh and the Tuwn of Lishurne, he made bis election to serve the City of Armagh. A New Writ was then moved for the Town of Lisburne—Order, d. O❑ the Motion of Sir HOMY PARNELL, a Now Writ was or dered for the Borough of Portarlington, in the room of Rtctiasto Su,sar, Esq. who, since his election, had accepted the Chiltern Iltindreds. Lord CA ST LER F.A GII moved for a New Writ for the Bo rough of :;eurry, in the room of General NELDSIA)to now a Peer of ,list part of the United Kingdom called Ireland.—Ordered. The SPE.% thought it might prevent some inconve stieme, jibe were now to state wby those Writs had been moved to-day s‘ itich had been oared on Friday, but which, at his sug gcrtiou, had been with:tell On Friday, it was possible that Election Tetitions might be received, and therefore he had ad s•isett that these Motions s::ould be put oil. But he hid this morni::g eviitten to the Post Wee, to know the date at which the last Mail left Dublin. The answer was," on Friday night ;" and this being c-Asiderably after the time for lodging Petitions against undue Returns, there could be no reason for longer delay ing the :dotians for New Writs. vv.6. be enlarged for giving information of recoguisances entered into, and that fourteen days should be al lowed fotthat purpdse. He then put the question severally on the Petitions complaining of the Returns for the County of Cork—for the County of Leitrim -'and for Drogheda, that the time for receiving no tice of the recognisance , being entered Into, should be enlarged till Friday, the 19th Feloruary.—Ordered. Mr. LUSHINGTON moved for an Account of the Unfunded Exchequer Bills, up to January 5, 1819. --Ordered.—The Account was immediately pre sented, and ordered to lie on the table. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. On the motion of f 1 a Arrosmay-GENERAL, an Order of the House for the production of certain Papers relative to the Insolvent Debtors' Court, was discharged ; and a series of other Papers, giving Re turns of all persons discharged under the Act ; of the gross amount of their debts, and of the sums paid into the hands of the assignees, and specifying the names of such persons as had been, and the cir cumstances under which they were remanded, were ordered to be laid before the House. On the motion of Mr. STUART WORTLEY, a new Writ was ordered for the Borough of Droitwich, in the room of Ogle, Esq. deceased. The Cutlery Trade Bill went through a Committee, the Report of which was ordered to be received ttb. morrow. •,•••ti MI. IMMMIGMAM-COMMITTZI Or Ste lttelf. Mr. CALCRAFT rose to make the motion of which be had given notice, for addiog Mr. Brougham to the Committee of Secrecy. The fitness of his Ho nourable and Learned Friend for such a Committee was not to be disputed. Every one who knew the man, must know that he was peculiarly fitted to forward and assist such an inquiry as that with which the Committee were charged. But he had been asked by many Gentlemen if there were any prece dent for that which he was about to propose? To this he would reply, that there was a direct prece dent in its favour. He found that on May 11, 1781, the Marquis of Graham had been added to a Corn- , mittee as he now proposed to add Mr. Brougham.— Stating this, he had said enough to prove that the course he wished the House to take was not unpar liamentary, nor without a precedent.' He wished not to offer any invidious remarks on the occasicr, and should humbly submit his motion to the House— " That Mr. Brougham be added as a Member to the Committee of Secrecy." Lord CASTLEREAGH said the line taken by the Honourable Gentleman very properly avciited any invidious remarks on the Menthe, s of the Com.. mittee. He, however, must object to the motion as destructive of that ancient mode of choosing a Com mittee to which the House had thought fit to resort on this occasion. When the Honourable Gen:leman said there was a precedent for which hr pro posed, in 1781, he did not say whether the Com mittee to which the Marquis of Graham was added, was a Committee of Secrecy. Mr. CALCIIAFT--Yes, it was. Lord CAS fLEREAGII then stated, that he had a precedent of equal force on the other side of the question. In 1797, it was proposed to add Mr. Fox to a Committee of Secrecy, but though the Com mittee was less numerous than the present, the pro position was negatived. He contended, that in pas ticular caws, where a Committee of Secrecy was ap pointed, it was desirable, when the ancient practice of ballot was resulted to, that the House should ad here strictly to the Committee chosen, and not suffer others to be added to the number at First selected. Mr. TIERNEY considered the course now pur sued to be invidious, if the language used on this occasion deserved a different character. In the whole House he did not know that there was one person so eminently qualified to assist at such an inquiry as his Honourable and Learned Friend. There was not one Gentleman who, on all questions cm every branch o:* public economy, was fitter to throw light on the sub ject of inquiry than the individual now proposed to' be added to the Committee of Secrecy. Ministers, howevor, determined never to give way but when the voice of the House was against them, wished their will to pass for the law of Parliament. He wished to know how the Committee, which consisted cf 21 persons, could be damaged by making it 22, in order to let into it one of the most intelligent men in that House? The proposition was only °nosed, because Mr. Bmugham sat cu :lint (tire Oppcsition) side of it. No one could deny that he was a fit and proper person ; no one could deny that he was well qualified to throw light on the various subjects into which they would have to inquire; and what harm, be would wish to know, could result from the Mo 'tion being acceded to? If tl'ere were in the Com mittee ten Opposition and eleven Ministerial Mem bers, then the introduction of Mr. Brougham might be objected to as an expedient to make the two par ties on a balance. Ot this, however, there would be no fear, as abundant care had been taken of that ; and even with Mr. Brougham, the opponents of Mi nisters in the Committee would only be 7 out of 22. This was a question on which the House and the country could not but look with great anxiety, as the value of Mr. Brougham was known ; and in no case where laborious research, and persevering inquiry into a complicated subject, were necessary, would the public voice fail to place his name at the head of any list that might be proposed. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. Mr. S. WORTLEY could not but believe that if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) were no: a Member of the Committee, it was the fault of the Gentlemen of the Opposition. If they had done their duty, they might have had him in it. The house had decided that the Committee should consist of 21 Members, to be chosen by ballot. In old times, and within his memory, it had been corn :bon for two lists of names to be circulated on such occasions. It was not so now. No list was pro duced from that side of the House. Had this been done, as he believed not more than a hundred Mem bers voted—had half the minority of the preceding night put in Mr. Brougham's name, he must have been of the number of the Committee. That he was out was clearly their own fault, and it was too much that they should now attempt to get another Mem ber added to the Committee, because they had neg lected their duty. Mr. PROTHEROE maintained, that though what had been stated by the last Speaker was theoretically true, it was not practically so. If the Members of the Opposition had come forward in a body, the Ministers would have done the like, and the result would have been what it was on the late occasion. To say, then, that the Opposition had only to blame themselves, was not the fact ; it would be more manly for Ministers to say that they had the power, and had thought proper to take this measure into their own hands. He blamed Ministers for not using the influence they possessed with more moderatior, and should vote for adding the name of iVir.Brougham to the Committee. Mr.CALCRAFT believed the Honourable Mem ber fol Yorkshire had been misinformed on the sub ject of the ballot, when he stated the number of Members that voted to be about one hundred. He (Mr. Calcraft) was informed that near 200 had voted, and about 17.5 had put in their lists unaltered. Had they brought forward lists of their own they could not have got Mr. Brougham into the C omm i ttee . Mr. WAITHMAN considered it to be the duty of the House, for such an inquiry, to select those'who were best fitted by their talents and experience to conduct it to a satisfactory conclusion. Whatever might be thought in that House, the Public would not believe that the CoMmittee of Secrecy was ap pointed to make an inquiry, but would rather believe it was appointed to suppress it. He strongly ex pressed his disapprobation of the way in whi c h Com suitteei were Flom by ballot. On the presentoe easioni if no precedent had been adduced to justify the motion, he was of opinion it would have b wrong • to vote against one so bro ug h t forwar.l 'that account. It might so happen that one indiv:].,4 could give the House more information than al rest of the house beside ; and was that one t o C. shut out by etiquette? He did not think this inqs;.- r would be satisfactory to the Public. It washi, tion to vote for the Motion. Mr. C. W. WYNNE was of opinion, that wi let b e . a Committee were chosen by hallos, or by a vote the House, the result might be expected to h e i t , 2 the same. But he should have a great ob'rctio n t , proceeding by ballot, if the House were to he lirni te d by it to the number originally named to be •; t1 d,„ Committee—if it were to be put in fetters and prived of the power of making any addition, bat ever de:irable. Cases might occur in which mat injury would be sustained if the Committee were de, nied the benefit it might derive from the of a particular individual. Thi, had ever be.! , end accordingly instances had c,:curicd, rot case, but in many, where additions had been rci to Committees chosen by baiot. Ia 1713, en v: , Members were added to a Committee; in 1716, fewer than four were added to one. In 1773, three were added to a Committee in the same way, and i i 1781, one (as had been altrady stated by an Hone: ; . able Gentieman, Mr. Calcrilf:) was aided to 4 Coe. mittee of Secrecy. On the propriety of addirg Ilrow4ham to the present Committee 11 , , con!4 hard:, have expected that there would have Seen ooe smiting voice, as, on questions e: his information, industry, and assiduity, were k , .owa to all. Mr. CANNING wished to state the grannels which he should give his vote. When he rated la favour of choosing a Committee by ballot, one train advantae:e on which he had cakulatcd was this, diLt it would exempt Members from the necessity ef stati:3 the g,onads of their preference or objection. If az no other reason, he would for that alone abstaie from making any remar k on the individual nen tioned in the Motion before the House, further than to subscribe to all that had been said in praise of his industry and talents. He would admit that after Committees had been chosen by ballot, aiditionskal been made to them, but these he apprehended wee under new cir:umstances, New Members had pc haps come into the Ilseise, or the particular fitnea of an individual to assist at the inqniry in progress had come to the knowledge of the House after the Cammitree had been formed, but it did not appez that such alterations had been made, when the at the time of forming its Committee, bad before it all the tAents of three full in its contempla• tion who wcre afterwards added to the Committee. On the present occasion, without saying any Nell in the slightest degree invidioes, he must remark, that the Committee had been . formed with a know. ledge of the talents of all its rnen,bers, and espe ' chilly of those of the Honourable :old Learned Gen 'tleman. He thought it wculd be inco:svenicat to over. the Committee .1.1:r.e, arid if the Learned tlerean were added to its members, this would not be the only addition that would be required. Mr. WYNW sheaved that the members added to former Committees were not new Members. In 1773, of the three added to a Committee, Mr. Jenkinsca (afterwards the Earl of Liverpool), Mr. Laagley. and Ilkilopkinson, were all old Members. . _ Mr. BARHAM contended, the Onposition had not neglected their duty by f a ili ng to put i n circt:la ticn a list of their own. iie never knew an instance in which an Opposition list was of any use %..hat!ver, the custom might therefore as well be Uropped as act, and they, in forbearing to re-.•ive it, did not deserve to be charged with deserting their duty. When they could not perform their duty it was best not to pre tend to do it. Ile thotitrilt there was not an impar tial man to be fousal who would not name Mr. Brougham as the fittest man that could be placed oa such a Committee. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) conceived a man might be an eminent Lawyer, yet there might be considera tions that would effe , ...tually operate to prevent the King from placing him in a Judicial situation; and another individual might be eminent in Divinity, yet no man would advise the King to create him a Bi shop. In the same way the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, whose name was before the House, might be greatly distinguished by talents and industry, yet there might be circumstances that ought to induce the House and the Ministers not to name him a mem ber of the Committee of Secrecy. He had considered every thing that could be urged in favour of Mr. Brougham, and the result was, that he for one should vote against him. This he should do in the exercise of his discretion, and if they wished it, he did not believe that Government could procure the nomina tion of this Gentleman (Mr. Brougham). He (Mr. Martin) was not ashamed to say, that Ministers could not induce him to vote for the appointment of that Gentleman—(A laugh). Lord MORPETH said, Mr. Fox, in 1797, had been excluded from the Committee then appointed, by the party warfare which raged at that time. He had thought Mr. Fox, from his great talents, would have been a valuable acquisition to that Committer. as he thought Mr. Brougham would be to that jut 'appointed ; and, on the same principles which led him to vote for Mr. Fox then, he should vote for Vln Brougham now. Mr. NIARRYATT bore testimony to the great ta lents, strength of mind, and unwearied industry of Mr. Brougham, but still could not wish to see him in the Committee. The nuestions on which they had to deliberate called for the attention of practical ra ther than that of theoretical men. He should there fore object to Mr. Broughani's name being added to the Committee, as he thought it already contziacd too few practical, and too many theoretical Gentle men—( Heel r, hca r). Mr. HARVEY asserted Mr. Brougham to be pre. eminently qualified to assist the Committee in their arduous task. He maintained that if, as the Mem ber for Yorkshire had said, the Opposition were " blaniefor not putting Mr. Brougham in the Commi:- tee before, that was .no Teason why they should nn remedy the evil, now they had discovered theirerror, as soon as they could. He considered Mr. Brougham to be excluded from party feelings, when it our.: :0 be the object of Mini s t ers t o ge t 11 the talent they could into the Committee. The House then divided—Ayes,- lU=-Cott, 17 ' 3 —Majority agairast the 3,lotigts ) V. • . , the motion, he was of opinion it would hav e e. e . l isances MI. 110170RAM—COMMITTE11 Or =RM. . 1 be enlar g ed for t vi ar g inf°Matke'af r s e li c oM i be al- Mr. CALCRAFT rose to make the motion of wrong •to vote against one so brought for wart .:, _ • • was, the discussion at present, espe- entered into, an that f our teen da y s pinion.that account. It might so happen that one indival o a nth a House, were better adjourned. lowed for that puriscir• He then hutting of the Returns to the Committee of Secrecy. The fitness of his Ho. put the question which be had given notice, for addiog Mr. Brougham • .: 1 , 4 could give the House more information than all I I) :ENYON expiessed his willingness, after severally on the Petitions comp I the ng no- was not to be disputed. Every one who knew shut out by etiquette? He did not think this in • iad heard, to postpone his motion further, for the County of Cork—for the County of . Leitrim nourable an d L earne d Friend for suc h a Committee rest of the house beside ; and was that nne . ta t i., 4 : 1 day se'nnight. qaey d for Drogheda, should man, must know that he was peculiarly fitted to would be satisfactory to the Public. It wasbis ha t . scussion continued, but assumed rather an Ibei the ng tim en e te f red or rec ki e to lv t i ry character. ace of the recognisan di ces at be enlarged till Friday, the 19th February.—Ordered. forward and assist such an inquiry as that with which tion to vote for the Motion. rl of LAUDERDALE repeated his leading Mr. L'USHINGTON moved for an Account Oche the Committee were c h arg ed. But he had been M r . C. W. WYNNE was o f op i n i on, that w h ether i to proceeding farther at present ; and some Unfunded Exchequer Bills, up to January e, 1819. asked by many Gentlemen if there were any prece- , a Committee were chosen by hallo{, or by a vote . dent for that which he was about to propose? To the House, the result might be expected to h e i i4t splanation took place between his Lordship - was immediately pre this he would reply, that there was a direct prece- the same. But he should have a great obiecti4 t , d el: —Ordered . —The ordered table. 1 everend Prelate (of CHESTER). respecting —"- sen O te r _The Account dent in its favour. He found that on May 11, 1781, proceeding by ballot, if the House we. be r occurred relative to the Petitions which. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. to lie on the -e to ma te d ght forward. On the motion a Are Arrosurzse -GENERAL, an the Marquis of Graham had been added to a Corn- by it to the number originally named to b e•mi at . :ourse of the conversation, EarlGaosvatamt Order of the House for the pro duction of certain mittee as he now proposed to add Mr. Brougham.— Committee—if it were to be put in fett ers and Az. _ Co urt , 'was Stating this, he had s aid en o ug h to prove that the prived of the power of making any addition, b oa d that the discussion should be Papers relative to the Insolvent Debtors .. y propose of other Papers, giving Re- course he wished the House to take was not unpnr- ever detirable. Cases might occur in which mataza until this day fortnight ; and after some discharged; and a series • marks from one or two of their Lordships , turns of all person s dischar g ed under , the Act •of the liamentary, nor without a precedent.' He wished not injury would be sustained if the Committee issue 'lib veere put, when that for adjourning the gross amount of their. de bts, at„ bts, and of the sums paid to offer any invidious remarks on the occasion, and nied the benefit it might derive from the knowles and specifyingthe should humbly submit hi s motion to the House— of a particular individual. This had ever ha ! , L ion of the motion (as originally proposed), into the hands of the assignees, ,_ had been, and the or- " That Mr. Brougham be added as a Member to the end accordingly instances had cacuried , rot i , day s t innight, was negatived ; and the names of such persons as .•! M . remanded, were Committee of Secrecy." case, but in many, where additio ns had lava not nammition for postponing the discussion cumstances under which they were Jay fortnight was agreed to by their Lord - ordered to be laid before the Hous e. Lord CASTLEREAGH said the line taken by to Committees cho s en by harlot. la 1715, ta a Ijourried till to-morrow. On the motion of Mr. STUART Wortmity, a new the Honourable Gentleman very properly avcided Members were added to a Committee.; in 1716, al HOUSE OF COMMONS Writ was ordered for the Borough of Droitwich, in any invidious remarks on the Members of the Corn- fewer than four were added to one. In 1773, t a me . :AVIS presented a Petition against the Bristol Gas the room of Ogle, Esq. deceased. mittee. He, however, must o bje c t to the motion as were added to a Committee in the same wee', and is ed to be referred to the Committee on the BilL The Cutlery Trade Bill went through a Committee, destructive of that ancient mode of choosing a Corn- 1781, one (as had been already stated by ars Homo:;. IITNEY presented a Petition, signed by a great the Report of which was ordered to be received ea. mittee to which the House had thought fit to resort able Gentieman, Mr. Calcreft) was aided to a Cc?, se inhabitants of Exeter, in avour of a Bill for mozrow, on this occasion. When the Honourable Gentleman rnittee of Secrecy. On the propriety of addir g .M, v Nlarket. Ordered to lie on the table. Rof the Committee on the proposed new Market SCOTCH BURGHS. said there was a precedent for thet which he pro- Brougham to the present Committee her valid hard: l ought up, read, and ordered to be re-committed. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON presented a posed, in lash he did no t say whether the Corn- have expected that there would have Seen one cii; ASCOYNE brought in a Bill for facilitating the Petition from the Electors of Kirkcudbright, one of mittee to which the Marquis of Graham was added, senting voice, as, on questions te•politLet e,:e.,, m , .. mall deists at Liverpool.—Read a first time. the Burghs of Scotland, praying to be restored to the was a Committee of Secrecy. his information, industry, and assialeity, were k%oira pool new Muket Bill was read a second time, and free exercise of their elective rights. The s Noble Lord Mr. CA LC It AFT—Yes, it was. Ito all. i committed. In of the Committee of Ways and Means was entered into a series of statements connected with Lord CASTLEREAGH then stated, that he had Mr. CANNING wished to state the grainuls re ad agreed to. this subject. He reminded the House, that a. Bill to a precedent of equal force on the other side of the which he should give his v o te. Wh en h.. 1 c ., te d ; 2 ruviding for the Care of his Majesty's Person was remedy in part, only in part, the evils of which these question. In 1797, it was proposed to add Mr. Fox favour of choosing a Committee by ballot, one train rime and passed. VEY gave notice for Wednesday, that he would h Petitioners complained, had been brought into the to a Committee of Secrecy, but t hough the COM- . -e,. .in-see on 4 cic .which he ha • aulated was thi s , tilat leturn of the number of Exchequer Informations, last Parliament, and had in the end been withdrawn, mittee was t e a s numerous t h an t he present, the pro- it woulti examptMembers from the necessitY efaati: 3 icise Laws, up to January 5, 1819, distinguishing in a manner which he could not but reg ard as rather position was negatived. He contended, that in ear- the pot:ads of their preference or objection. if fa. n which a compromise had been made, and those extraordinary. He now wished to ask the Noble titular caws, where a Committee of Secrecy was aP- no other reeson, he would for that alone abstain has had been obtained. RIDLEY wished to move for a Return of the Lord opposite, if he proposed to introduce a no th er pointed, it was desirable, when the ancient practice from making any remark on the individual moo- surcharges made on Farmers, as Licensed Horse- Bill on the subject in the course of the present Ses- of ballot was restated to, that the House should ad- tioned in the Motion before the House, further thus .iguisbiag the Appeals made, an their results. If sion ? The Petition was then read. It prayed for here strictly to the Committee chosen, and not suffer to subscribe to all that had been said in p ra i se o f hi s bject7d to, he would make the Motion now. the repeal of two Acts of Parliament, which inter- others to be added to the imniber at first selected. i n du s t r y an d t a l ents . H e wou ld a d m i t t h at after ring NCEpressed now LLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to fered with their rights as Electors, and for such new Mr. TIERNEY considered the course now pur- Committees had been chosen by ballot, additio ns em RIDLEY thru gwe notice that ke should bring enactments as would supply an effectual remedy to sued to be invidious, if the language used on this been made to them, but these he apprehended wee mien on the subject on Thursday. the evils of which they complained. occasion deserved a different character. In the whole under new cir:emstances, New Members had ia•-. y e ve WIIIT3. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND said, House he did not know th at t h er e was one person so haps come into the Iletise, or the articular &mu LEER bad received a.letter from Mr. Lentz re. inquiry as his of en individual to assist at t he i. • • the Bill which the Noble Lord described as having eminently qualified to assist at such an • i nqu i r y in progress that having been returned for two places, the City ad the Town of Lishurne, he made his election to been withdrawn in an extraordinary manner, had Honourable and Learned Friend. There was not one hid come to the knowledge o f the Ho use a f ter th e yof Armagh. A New Writ was then moved for been withdrawn because those interested in it had Gentleman who, on all questions on every branch ca . Committee had been formed, but it did not appear Lisburne—Order d. requested that the Bill mi ht not pass till the subject public economy, w a s fi tter to th ro w light on the su b- t h at suc h a l terat i ons h a d b een made, when tie piton of Sir HOMY PARNELL, a New Writ was or- . had been brought under the consideration of a Ural- ject of inquiry than the individual now prnposed to Leese, Borough of at the time of f or ming it s C omm i ttee , h a d P ortsrlington, In the room of RICHARD who, since his election, had accepted the Chiltern vention of the Royal Burghs, in July. In answer to th e be added to the Committee of Secrecy. Ministers, before it all the talents of three full in its contempla• • question which had been put. he had to state, that it howevar, determined never to give way but when tion who were afterwards added to the Committee. TLEREAGII moved for a New Writ for the Bo- was his ; .I;tention to propose the iatroduction of a Bill the voice of the House was against them, wished On the present occasion, without saying any thi..g wry, in the room of General NEWHAM. 1110 W a Peer , : ,..„ :1 .. ''• 3 '; .' l• 'db h•cl• 1 their vrill to pass ar ea that ttee.ii .e int roug tin uring tle for the law of Parliament. tie in the slightest degree 1 invidious, re must remark, dour United Kingdom called Ireland.—Ordered. -"" IK.Ert. thought it might prevent some inconve- last Session of Parliament. wished to know how the Committee, which consisted that the Committee had been tormed with a know. -‘,.re now to state why those Writs had been moved The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. cf 21 persons, could be damaged by making it 22, ledge of the talents of all its nten.bers, and espe- had beta eared on Friday, but which, at his sue- Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON rote to with- in order to let into it one of the most intelligent men cially of those of the Honourable and Learned Gen- been withnil On Friday, it was possible that d r a w a Notice House? The that he had formerly given. He ex. in that proposition was only °nosed, tlemnn. He thought it wenl.l be inco:iveniera to :ions might be received, and therefore he had ad- se Motions sliould be put off. But he had this Phined his !natives for doing so. He had given a because Mr. Brougham sat on ;het (the Opposition) open the Committee a.ere, and if the Learned Ger.- ten to the Post Wuc, to know the date at which Right lionourahle Gentleman opposite a list of pa- side of it. No one could deny that he was a fit and tlerean were added to its members, this would not be left Dublin. The amwer was," on Friday night ;" pees, for which he intended to move, relative to the proper person ; no one could deny that he was well the only addition that would be requi red . 1 cmsiderahly after the time for lotlgia l ; Ph B c e tition s Scot ' arees. From that Right Honourable Ge n - qualified to throw light on the various subjects into Mr. 'WYNN- spewed that the members added to Rattans, there could be no reason for longer delay- , ms for New Wrim tieman he lad understood, that three out of four that which they would have to inquire ; and what harm, former Committees were not new Members. In 1773. ELECTIONS. he wished to obtain would be given ; but last night be would wish to know, could result from the Mo• of the three added to a Committee, Mr. Jenkinsea ;AKER had to acquaint the }lmre, that he had been informed by that Right Honourable 'don being acceded to? If there were in the Com- (afterwards the Earl of Liverpool), Mr. Langley, over the Election Petitions, he found one Gentleman, that the production of the Papers would mittee ten Opposition and eleven Ministerial Mem- and Mr. Hopkinson, were all old Members. a Thursday last, as complaining of the Re- be opposed altogether. He was unwilling to, suffer ben, then the introduction of Mr. Brougham might Mr. BARHAM contended, the Onrosition had righeda :it was in fact against the petition- the case of the Scotch Burghs to come under discus.. be objected to as an expedient to make th e two par- not neg l ecte d t h e i r d uty b y f a i l i ng to p ut in cireide. ate, and not the sitting Member. It se-as, sion on a motion which might be disposed of by the ties on a balance. Ot this, however, there would be ti: cn a list of their own. He never knew an instance lot an Election Petition, according to the previous question ; and should therefore,-however re- no fear, as abundant care had been taken of that ; in which an Opposition list was o f any use whateer, er these circumstances, be would suggest luctasnly, witisdrae his Motion for the present. As and even with Mr. Brougham, the opponents of Mi- the custom might therefore as well be dropped as ace ion should be made for discharging the the Learned Lori opposite had made arrangements nisters in the Committee would only be 7 out of 22. and thew, in forbearing to re: i -az it, did not deserve to leering that Petition to an Election Corn- I for bringing forward a measure to remedy, in part, This was a question on which the House and the b e c h ar g ed w i th deserting their duty. When they f that the Petition should then be with- the evils complained of by the Electors in the Scotch country could not but look with great anxiety, as the could not perform d•it - their d u t y was best not to per rout affecting the other Petitions preseeted . Burghs, he would not bring forward the subject to value of Mr. Brougham was known ; and in no case tend to do it. Ile thotieht there was not an impir- Return, which hii Notice referred till that Learned Lord where laborious research, and persevering inquiry tial man to be found h w o would no: name Mr. s was immediately made to discharge the could be in the Iliebe. He .s oul.{ no: now positively into a complicated subject, were necessary, would Brougham as the fittest man that could be placed oa . the Petition mss withdrawn. name a day for which his Motion would stand ; but the public voice fail to place his name at the head of such - a Committee. 'BAKER had also to acquaint the House, if the Learned Lord would say after what day Ise any list that might be proposed. Slr. MARTIN (of Galway) conceived a man might Stuart, who had presented a Petition, on could be is; the House, he would then fie on the day Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. be an eniiisent Lawyer, yet there might be considera- January, against the Return for the Bo- for bringing it on. Mr. S. WORTLEY could not but believe that if • nous that would effeetually operate to prevent the arnelford, had not entered into the neces. Mr. BATHURST said, when the Noble Lord had the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) King - from placing him in a Judicial situation; and nisances required by law. When these first spoken to him on the subject of the Papers for were no: a Member of the Committee, it was the another individual might be eminent in Divinity, yet itered into within a certain time, it was which he proposed to move, and inquired of him if fault of the Gentlemen of the Opposition. If they no man would advise the King to create him a Bi- the Speaker to report the same to the the Motion would be opposed, he (Mr. Bathurst) had had done their duty, they might have had him in it. shop. In the same way the Honourable and Learned l then, on the Petition being taken into replied, that it was a great deal too much for an in- The Ilouse had decided that the Committee should Gentleman, whose name was before the House, might as, the order for referring it to a Com. dividual like him to take upon himself to decide on consist of 21 Members, to be chosen by ballot. In be greatly distinguished by talents and industry, yet tbe discharged. that question. On Friday, he had told him that only old times, and within his memory, it had been corn- t h ere m i g h t be circumstances that ought to induce tion was then taken into consideration. and one past of his Motion would be objected to ; but Mon for two lists of names to be circulated on such the House and the Ministers not to name him a mem- rr referring it to an Election Committee subsequently, understanding the Motion to be diffc- occasions. It was not so now. No list was pro- her o f the Committee of Secrecy. He had considered rged. rent from what he had supposed, he had thought it duced from that side of the House. Had this been every thing that could be urged in favour of Mr. AKER had nee? to make a report to the right to let the Noble Lord know last night, that it done, as he believed not more than a hundred Mem- Brougham, and the result was, that he for one should ecting certain recognisances to be entered would meet with opposition, which before he had bers voted—had half the minority of the preceding vote against him. This he should do in the exercise ose presenting Petitions, complaining of given him to understand it would not be likely to night put in Mr. Brougham's name, he must have o f his discretion, and if they wished it, he did not s in Irish Elections. Before he spoke of encounter. been of the number of the Committee. That he was believe that Government could procure the nonaina- ilar cases to which he had alluded, lie The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND was out was clearly their own fault, and it was too much tion of this Gentleman (Mr. Brougham). He (Mr. aright be for the convenience of the House the last man in that House to desire that the Noble that they should now attempt to get another Mem- Ma rt in) was not as ame to say, that Ministers could h d odd state precisely the situation in whith 'Lord should, for his personal convenience, postpone her added to the Committee, because they lead neg- not induce him to vote for the appointment of that oners stood. By an Act of the 28th of his Motion for a single day : but the Noble Lord must lected their duty. Gentleman—( A laugh ). was provided, that the Petitioners should be aware that a person insituation had duties to Mr. PROTHEROE mai n t a i ne d, t h at t h oug h w h at Lord MORPETH said, Mr. Fox, in 1797, had certain recognisances within fourteen days, i perform, which might call hi his si m away, that were of had been stated by the last Speaker was theoretically to do sc. it was imperative on the speaker some importance to the Public. After the Session true, it was not practically s o . If t h e M em b ers of been excluded from the Committee t h en appo i n ted, h a t the se had not been entered into, and rose (on the 12th of March), he should be happy to the Opposition had come forward in a b o dy, the by the party warfare which raged at that time. He the Petition being taken into considera- •-give his attendance to the Motion of the Noble Lord, Ministers would have done the like, and the result had thought Mr. Fox, from his great talents, would irder for referring it to an Election Com- as soon as it might suit his convenience to bring it on. would have been what it was OR the late occasi • on. have been a valuable acquisiti o n to th at Co m mittee. to be discharged. By an Act of the 48th Lord A. HAMILTON then postponed hi s M ot i on T o sa y, t h en , t h at t h e O pposition had yto blame as he thought Mr. Brougham wo u ld b e t o that jut onl git was provided, that if the Petitioners to the 14th of Mara. themselves, was not the fact it ; would be more 1 Unpointed ; and, on the same principles which led land, though no extension of the time for- Sir JOHN NEWPORT gave notice of a Motion manly for inisters to say that the y Inns to vote for Mr. Fox then, he should vote for Mr. had the power, wed for presenting Petitions was granted on Tuesday on certain Scotch Laws decla r ed t o h ave an d h a d thought proper to take this mea s u r e into Brouehern now. '' rl, a further time should be allowed for fallen into disuetude, and to be no longer binding their own hands. He blamed Ministers for not using Mr. MARRYATT bore testimony to the great tx- Speaker notice of the recognisances having on the subject. the influence they possessed with d • more mo ciao:ma lents, strength of mind, and unwearied industry of el into, and fourteen days was allowed for -Mr. KENNEDY said, a Commission had been and should votefor adding M r. Brougham, but still could not wish to see him in the name of air. Brougham ise, making altogether twenty - eight days appointed, in 11515, to inquire into the fees, profits, to the Committee. in the Committee. The questions on which they had pening of the first Session of Parliament and emoluments of' the Officers of the Courts of Law Mr.CALCRAFT believed the Honourable Mem- to deliberate called for the attention of practical ra g into the recognisances, and giving notice in Scotland. They had made fo ur Reports in former bee fo l Yorkshire had been misinformed on th e su b- firer than that of theoretical mess. He should therc- e. A subsequent Act of Parliament, passed Sessiois. He wished to know if Ministers intended ject of the ballot, when he stated the number of fore object to Mr. Brougham's name being added to i of the King, called on the Petitioner to binding any Bill on the Reports of the Commis- Members that voted to be about one hundred. He the Commetee, as he thought it already cont.' -'ned wavy recognisances for Counsel's fees, and *loners. He also. wished to ask if the Learned Lord (Mr. Calcraft) was informed that near 200 had voted, too few practical, and too many theoretical Gentle- erases, and for entering into these the same opposite could tell him when the Comm' • issioners and about 175 had put in their lists unaltered. Had men—( Hee r, hear). allowed as in the Act of the 28th of the would terminate their labour, ? they brought forward lists of their own they could Mr. HARVEY asserted Mr. Brougham to be pre- by the same oversight no time had been The LORD ADVOCATE believed a Report from not have got Mr. Brougham into the Committee. eminently qualified to assist the Committee in their 'Cr the fourteen days to Petitioners in Ire. the Judges had been madewithin the last six months, Mr. WAITHMAN considered it to be the duty of e notice of these recognisances having been which Report had been laid before the P • lance Re- the House, for such an inquiry, to select those ber for Yorkshire had said, the Opposition were t 3 ed into. The provision made in the Act gent, and was under consideration. He could not say were best tilted by their talents and experience to blanieTor not putting Mr. Brougham in the commi:- di of the King, must, by some accident;ewhen the Commissioners would close their labours. conduct it to a satisfactory conclusion. Whatever tee before, that was MO -reason why they should nn overlooked when that Bill was passed, or Mr, KENNEDY said he was not satisfied with the arrangement would have been made with answer he had received. ' not believe that the Committee of Secrecy was ap- as soon as they could. Ile considered Mr. Brougham these recognisances that had been thought Lord CASTLEREAGH remarked, it was not star_ Poin • ted make • • to an inquiry, but would rather believe to be excluded from party feelings, when it ougat ar 'or others. If }what succeeded in explain- rising if the Members of the Governm ent i n * as • it was appointed to suppress it. He strongly ex- be the object of Ministers to get .1.1 the talent chef ration in which - these Petitioners stood, he House were not able ro g ive , satisfactory aaswers ea pressed his disapprobation of the way i n w hi c h Corn- could into the Committ ee . .ere bald be no difference of *Won on every question, of which. they ,bad AO previous las asitteel were 0011,12 by ballot. On the presentne- The Ilouse then divided:—Ayes,- M3.. - ...Noes, 17' . ' lie would suggest that the time should formai* the meenrat it was asked. tasks, if ao . prOcedeat had been adduced to justify —Majority against the Motion, V. ,• •.. --. • '41t... .. • . e.........--.. 0--. • - ____ .. . • ELECTIONS. The SPEAKER had to acquaint the Hoirc, that on looking over the Election Petitions, he found one presentel on Thursday last, as complaining of the Re turn for Dreigheda : it was in fact against the petition acv Candidate, and not the sitting Member. It %vas, therefore, not an Election Petition, according- to the Act. Under these circumstances, he would suggest that a motion should be made for di 'charging the order for referring that Petition to an Election Com mittee, and that the Petition should then be With. ith clr wn, without affecting the other Petitions presented against the Return. A motion was immediately made to discharge the order, and the Petition ass withdrawn. The SPEAKER had also to acquaint the House, that Mr. J. Stuart, who had presented a Petition, on the 22d of January, against the Return for the Bo rough of Camelford, had not entered into the neces. sary recognisances required by law. When these were not entered into within a certain time, it was the duty of the Speaker to report the same to the House, and then, on the Petition being taken into consideration, the order for referring it to a Com mittee must be discharged. The Petition was then taken into consideration. and the order for referring it to an Election Committee was discharged. The SPEAKER had nog? to make a report to the !louse respecting certain recognisances to be entered into by those presenting Petition% complaining of the Returns in Irish Elections. Before he spoke of the particular cases to which he had alluded, he thought it might be for the convenience of the House that he should state precisely the situation in which these Petitioners stood. By an Act of the 28th of the King it was provided, that the Petitioners should enter into certain recognisances within fourteen days, and failing to do sr. it was imperative on the speaker to report that these had not been entered into, and thereupon the Petition being taken into considera tion, any order for referring it to an Election Com mittee was to be discharged. By an Act of the 48th of the King it was provided, that if the Petitioners were in Ireland, though no extension of the time for merly allowed for presenting Petitions was granted in England, a further time should be allowed for giving the Speaker notice of the recognisances having been entered into, and fourteen days was allowed for that purpose, making altogether twenty-eight days from the opening of the first Session of Parliament for entering into the recognisances, and giving notice of the same. A subsequent Act of Parliament, passed in the 53d of the King, called on the Petitioner to enter into heavy recognisances for Counsel's fees, and other expenses, and for entering into these the same time was allowed as in the Act of the 28th of the King, but by the same oversight no time had been allowed over the fourteen days to Petitioners in Ire land to give notice of these recognisances having been duly entered into. The provision made in this Act of the 48th of the King, must, by some accident; have been overlooked when that Bill was passed, or the same arrangement would have been made with respect to these recognisances that had been thought necessary for others. If he had succeeded in explain ing the situation in which these Petitioners stood, he thought there *mild be no difference of opinion on t h e subject. •He would suggest that the time should SCOTCH BURGHS. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON presented a Petition from the Electors of Kirkcudbright, one of the Burghs of Scotland, praying to be restored to the free exercise of their elective rights. The,Noble Lord entered into a series of statements connected with this subject. He reminded the House, that a. Bill to remedy in part, only in part, the evils of which these Petitioners complained, had been brought into the last Parliament, and had in the end been withdrawn, in a manner which he could not but regard as rather extraordinary. He now wished to ask the Noble Lord opposite, if he proposed to introduce another Bill oo the subject in the course of the present Ses sion ? The Petition was then read. It prayed for the repeal of two Acts of Parliament, which inter fered with their rights as Electors, and for such new enactments as would supply an efLctual remedy to the evils of which they complained. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND said, the Bill which the Noble Lord described as having been withdrawn in an extraordinary manner, had been withdrawn because those intercsteJ in it had requested that the Bill mi ht not - pass till the subject had been brought under the consideration of a Con vention of the Royal Burghs, in July. In answer to the question which had been put. he had to state, that it was his intention to propose the introduction of a 13i11 similar to that which he had brought in during the last Session of Parliament. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON rote to with draw a Notice that he had formerly given. He ex plained his motives for doing en. He had given a Right lionourable Gentleman opposite a list of pa pers, for which he intended to move, relative to the Scotch Burghs. From that Right Honourable Gen tleman he had understood, that three out of four that he wished to obtain would be given ; but last night he had been informed by that Right Honourable Gentleman, that the production of uie Papers would be opposed altogether. He was unwilling to, suffer the case of the Scotch Burghs to come under discus.. sion on a motion which might be disposed of by tha previous question ; and should therefore,-however re luctantly, witlidrau his Motion f o r the present. As' the Learned Lori opposite had. made arrangements for bringing forward a measure to remedy, in part, the evils complained of by the Electors in die Scotch Burghs, he would not tiring forward the subject to which his Notice referred till that Learned Lord could be in the He would not now positively name a day for which his Motion would stand ; but if the Learn e d Lord would say after What day he could be it; the House, he would then fir. on the day for bringing it on. Mr. BATHURST said, when the Noble Lord had first spoken to him on the subject of the Papers for which he proposed to move, and inquired of him if' the Motion would be opposed, he (Mr. Bathurst) had replied, that it was a great deal too much for an in dividual like him to take upon himself to decide onl that question. On Friday, he had told him that only one part of his Motion would be objected to ; but, subsequently, understanding the Motion to be diffe rent from what he had supposed, he had thought it! right to let the Noble Lord know last night, that it would meet with opposition, which before he had 'given him to understand it would not be likely to' encounter. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND was the last man in that House to desire that the Noble Lord should, for his personal convenience, postpone his Motion for a single day : but the Noble Lord must be aware that a person in his situation had duties to perform, which might call him away, that were of some importance to the Public. After the Session rose (on the 12th of March), he should be happy to 'give his attendance to the Motion of the Noble Lord, as soon as it might suit his convenience to bring it on. Lord A. HAMILTON then postponed his Motion to the 14th of Mara. Sir JOHN NEWPORT gave notice of a Motion on Tuesday on certain Scotch Laws declared to have fallen into disuetude, and to be no longer binding on the subject. -Mr. KENNEDY said, a Commission had been appointed, in Ibls, to inquire into the fees, profits, and emoluments of the Officers of the Courts of Law in Scotland. They had made four Reports in former Sessions. He wished to know if Ministers intended 'binding any Bill on the Reports of the Commis sioners. He also wished to ask if the Learned Lord opposite could tell him when the Commissioners would terminate their labours ? The LORD ADVOCATE believed a Report from the Judges had been made within the last sir months, which Report had been laid before the Prince Re gent, and was under consideration. He could not say Iwhen the Commissioners would close their labours. Mr, KENNEDY said he was not satisfied with the answer he had received. Lord CASTLEREAGH remarked, it was not SOX prising if the Members of the Government in that House were not able to give , satisfactory answers every question, of which they.had no previous in& formation, the saoMeat it was asked. % I '1 t , / ; 0 Y' t ''