Star. — London, England, 1816-05-21 00:00:00

• hb ha' recnerse to the sheepfold, and was thus led '1 on from offence tont/once till he came to the leaf- fold. • If •the House would go into the Committee, he sheield p , ove that the sale of game was eticou. raged ill the metropialis, whilst peasants were prose cuted •in the country, and means might then be adopted to 'preserve the tights and privileges of land roptietors, and at the same time to put an end to this noxiout practice. • Mr. BANKES said, that if the object of theme. don was to preserve game, and not to destroy it, he should n )t oppose it, as he hoped that, by consider ing the game laws something might be done to ob viate and put a stop to those dangerous associations of arneed men coming-at night to support the noxious practice of poaching. Lord CASTLEREAGH invested the propriety of postponing the present discussion, as there were some questions of more importance before the House, and, es there seemed to be no indisposition to grant the Committee. CONSOLIDATION OF THE ENGLISH AND MISR EXCHEQUERS. On the motion of Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD. the Order of the Day for going into a Committee on the 7th Article of Union between Great Britain and Ireland ens read. The Right Hon. Gentleman then moved, that the report of the income and expenditure of Ireland, the amount of the produce of her imports and exports, the expense of her loans and contributions, from the year 1811 to 1816, be referred to the said Commit. tee ; which being done, the House resolved itself into the said Committee. Mr. V. FITZGERALD then rose to open this important subject. • He was not sorry, he said, for the short but interesting circumstance which had prevented his addressing the House at an earlier hour—it was, however, in one respect unfavourable to his being able to impress upon the House, the magnitude of the subject to which be was about to tall their attention, for it rendered it peculiarly diffi cult for him to arrest their attention to what must necessarily be a dry detail of facts, immediately after the eloqdent and interesting circumstances to which he had just alluded. The House, by its vote of last Session, stood pledged to take this subject into con &titration, early in the present Session; the difficul ties, however, attendant upon the task, prevented his having earlier called their attention to the subject. In claiming their indulgence en the present occasion, he hoped they would consider the nature of the case to which their attention was called, with all that soli citude for the affairs of Ireland which particularly marked the conduct of the present Parliament.— He would have to lay before them the successive re paru of Committees up stairs on this subject, and to explain and remove the objections then urged, and which would, perhaps, in this discussion, be repeated. The contribution which Ireland by the great, and, as be would say, most beneficial measure of Union, was called, according to the seventh Article, to pay, was far greater than her means could cope with even the principles of calculation on which it was founded were erroneous, because it was impossible, when they were laid down, that human foresight could have an ticipated the arduous struggle which the Empire was alto worth called upon to make in the extent of its war, mid the enortni•us amount of its expense. Ire land had been with England the sharer of her glory 'as well as of her sacrifices ; and if lie could sbew that her present incapacity to meet her debt arose from the efforts and sacrifices she had made to keep pace with England in the expense of that common cause of free dom and humanity which at length saved Europe, he would then conceive he had made cut his case. The Right Hon. Gentleman then referred to the 7th -Article of Uoion. By that clause it was enacted, that whenever the debt of Ireland bore a certain pro portion, that of 2 to 15, to the debt of England, the United Legislature should be competent to consoli date the debts and revenues of both countries. This continency had actually occurred in the year 1811, but ?ornament then neglected, or was by other busi ness prevented from completing that measure ; but although in the succeeding year the proportion be. tween the respective debts exceeded what was con templated by the Act of Union, the Committee, which sat in 1815, was decidedly of opinion that the Legislature still retained the same right, as fully as at the very moment when the contingency first took place. The relative values of the Funded and Unfunded Debt of Great Britain and Ireland, as calculated ac cording to the current prices of the Stocks, had been laid on the table, and by them it appeared that the proportion of the debt of Ireland was to that of Great Britain, in January 1816, as 2 to 12. This was within the proportion proposed by the Act, but be conceived the House was not precluded by that circumstance from carrying into effect the object of the enactment. The Right Hon. Gentleman then entered into a review of the financial state of Ireland at present. With resptct to her debt, the operation of her Sinking Fund, in relation to her unredeemed debt, and the .produce of bey taxes under the several beads of Customs, Excise, Inland Taxes, Stamp Du ties, Post-office, and the casual brauches of the re. venue— 'A ke Funded Debt of Ireland, on the kb of la twary, 1815, amounted to - 25,585,000 The Uufunded Debt to . 11,7011,0u0 Making a total of • - - 130,573,000 lite Charges of Maxagernent at the sante period were - - 16.670.000 And the Sinking Fund amounted to - V,0117"0 In January 1816, the Funded Debc was - 4130,000,060 The Unfunded Ut.lat . - • 11,705,000 Making a total of . 347,706,000 The Cbargei of Management were • 16,834,700 The Sluicing Fuld war u,401,514 Leaving the oinking Fund, in proponion to the Unredeemed Lhbt, as 1 to 15. The revenue and customs of the last year were, he stated, mere productive than those of the former, r.otwithstanding a considerable diminution in the ge iieral consumption in Ircland of All articles of British manufacture. This diminution was the natural con- sequence olthe great diminution in the exports of native produce, which were less in value than those et the preced•ng year by about £1,500,000, while she decrease in the consumption of British manufac "%across about £1,100,000. And such, with respect to Englittd, must ever be the consequence of a de crease of Irish exports s for unless Ireland be enabled. to find a market for her produce, it is imponible•tor her to be:onse a purchaser from the British manu. leugio, • ID the Comm of Ireland these bad bees.. during the lot eighteen Ilene, * most i~t Provelimit; which would be blot estimalid Woo. , Paring diti returns of that 'period with those of the .oemding century. In 1606, the earliest datirof cus tom **roads is Ireland, the Produce was 0188,000., la 1748 they bad room' than doubled ; but, in actl equal period, namely, to the year 1797, they had in• creased foer-fold, having amounted to 41840,000, — This improvement had, however, been the work of 'else hundred years, while, in the short interval be lawn )797 ,and 1815, they :had increased to 42,653,000, thus trebling in eighteen years, the whole amount of the fourfold increase which it had taken one hundred years to complete. This was, in his opinion, a cause of gratulation to the empire, and as such only he now pressed it on the attention of the Committee. The inland customs had increased, in 1814, by £200,000, principally from having asso inflated the duties on timber, wines, and tobacco, to what they were in England. Those duties were squally productive in the last year, in which the only, falling off was, from what he before stated, the di. minished consumption of British manufactures, the decrease in woollens alone being in value about' x 140,000. The gross amount last year, of the inland revenue, was .42,252,000. He next adverted to the increasing produce of duties on the linen, cotton, and silk manufactures. Of these, the first was long looked upon as the staple manufacture of Ireland, but he was desirous of adverting particularly to the lecond,"because it had been asserted in Ireland, that the Union would have destroyed the cotton menu factures of that country—thb, however, was so far from being the case, that alti'nugh he could not re present it as a great source nf national strength, yet he could assure the House that it had considerably increased, and !tad :ifforcl.d a constantly improving revenue to the c , ,litry: The silk manufactures of Ireland were of very great importance're that coun try, by employing a large body of people, particu. lady in Dublin That manufacture he had excepted from the Act passed last Session, for he felt that the duties on it should be gradually assim;i.ited with those of England, and hoped that it sefaild be ac-' complished by the year 1820. In the year 1814, Ireland had exported 150,000 barrels of corn ; and, since January last, had exported hall a million. The spirit duty in 1810 was six hundred and fifty thou sand Founds; in 1813 amounted to AV 3,000; in 181+, after the suspension of the distillation from grain, was £1,600,000, being an increase of seventy thousand pounds ; and, in 1815, amounted to x 11,422,000; being an average annual increase since 1810, of x 1327,000. The annual increase of the malt duty, since 1810, was 4285,0()0, amounting in 1816 to 4655,000. He was however bound in candour to declare, that they could not, in the present or next year, reckon on so large a produce, in consequence of the repeal of the war duties. The annual produce from the duties on tobacco was eight hundred thou sand pounds. The next branch of the revenue was , the assessed taxes, and in these there were two in- Creases during the last three years—a sufficient evi. deuce that Ireland had not shrunk from contributing bet share to the general burden of the State. la 'lBl3 there was an augmentation of 25 per cent. and subsequently an assimilation of the assessed taxes to, the rates as paid in England. Their produce in 1812' was 340 thousand pounds ; but in 1816 it had in creased to 685 thousand pounds exclusive of taxes, which were peculiar to Ireland—namely, the Hearth Tax and the House Tax. This last produced about thirty thousand pounds, and fell solely on that, lowest classes of houses, which could not be included within the operation of the Hearth or Window Ta The Stamp Duties amounted in 1815 to 560 thou:l sand pounds; and although 220 thousand pounds were transferred to the Excise Duties, yet their in. crease during the last year was 45 thousand pounds., The other blanches of revenue, including the Post-i office, averaged for the last three years about 130 thousand pounds; but the l'ost.office in Ireland was not to be considered as a productive source of reve nue. In the prettent state of that country, it could only be rendered subservient to the immediate con venience of the people. He then adverted to the state of the Sinking Fund, with reference to the pro portion it bore to the unredeemed debt. Its amount for redeeming the debt due immediately an Ireland was 786 thousand pounds, being in proportion to ihe debt as Ito 3.51. Its amount as applicable for re deeming the loans contracted in England wan 41,665,000, being in proportion to that debt as one to 56. The total Sinking Fund, as applicable to redeem the total debt, was £1,401,000, being in pros portion to the debt as one to fifty, while the Sinking, Fund of Great Britain was, in proportion to its debt as one to 62f. This statement should not, however,' appal them, .fm' it bad not long since been truly stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that, at the commencement of the war of the French Iwo. lution, the debt of England was double what that of Ireland is at present, while the Sinking Fund then' applicable for its redemption was not halt so proportin nate to its reduction as that of Ireland now is. He had thus endeavoured to submit to the House an espies nation of the 7th Article of the Act of the Union, and' to chew that the state of the two countries is at present what had been contemplated by that Article; sti enabling the-Legislature to consolidate the debts and revenues of Great Britain and Ireland. He shewed! what the opinion of successive Committees had been . respecting the right of Parliament'to complete that measure, notwithstanding a casual omission at the :time when the contingency had occurred, and having so done, he could not but anticipate a successful to. suit to his present proposition. But it might, per haps, be expected that he should point out what other resources of taxation, not at present employed, tuiU remained in Leland. These, he lamented to say, were not so considerable as appeared to many. The assimilation of the taxes of Ireland to those paid in England, Was a subject of extreme delicacy. But one great difficulty was escaped by the cessation of the Property Tax in this country. Thus tax, although sufficiently well adapted to Great Britain, from the facilities afforded to its colleztion, by the nature of her police, and the assistance of a resident gentry, was altogether unfit for Ireland; but had such a tax continued for more than one year rn this country, he would find it difficult to argue against the justice of extending its operation to the other. 'He was, how ever, prep a y d. to contend, that even after the re moval o tfmt great difficulty, many others would still continue ; and that were all the present times levied in England applied at once. to Ireland,, they times • void , trot Matte tip 111 .1 e Maim, did meet be **Win her own revenue. , The Cammittee Om be isriff, that if WI the kalif; df England were ap plied to Ireland; that several taxes pecuirliarly belong- ing to Ireland must be repealed. Such as the Hearth TeX, the dotiO on Excise Licences, producing 4100,000 annually, and there must be also repealed the duties of selo per cent. ad valorem, paid by Ire. land on all articles of British produce imported for her general consumption ; for were they permitted to COW, Ireland would not only pay the same taxes le vied in England, but also an additional tax on what. ever articles were exported from Great Britain. The tepee!, however of all those duties, would, per. baps, more than counterbalance the increase of reve nue arising from the additional * number of imposts. lie was aware that the duty of 10 per cent. ad va lorem on the importation of British produce, were re gerded by Many in Ireland as protecting duties on the manufactures of that country, and that by the Act of Union, they should continue for twenty years ; but he ridiculed this designation of them, as they ap peared to protect manufactures that actually did not exist, and contended generally, that their existence WAS dictated by a - false policy. The other tw.o branches of revenue remaining for Ireland, were salt 'and coals. It was a very questionable policy to raise the duty bn salt equal to that paid in England, but the present duties, as well as those on coals, were to continue for twenty years by the Act of Union. The same policy which would prevent an increase of duties in the former, were equally applicable to the latter, as they must principally fall on the manufac turers, and would affect the general comfort of the people. The Right Hon. Gentleman next adverted to the state of exchange between Great Britain and Ireland, which he considered as unnatural between countries so closely connected.—(Hear, hear.) — He had been extremely desirous of assimilating the currencies of the two countries, but mzny difficulties intervened, and particularly the interruption of cash circulation. The present rate of the exchanges had been caused by the diminution in the exports from Ireland, and bore an exact proportion to the state of them ; but still it ought not to be affected so much as it hid been. If the currency of the countries were assimilated, there would exist no difficulty in apply ing a remedy to the mate of the exchange, for the dif ference would then be in .proportion to the expense of transporting bullion from one country to the other. He hoped that the return to cash payments, by the Banks of England and Ireland, would be concurrent with the assimilation of the national currencies, which, in his opinion, might not be attended with the serious difficulties that many had imagined.—. Those difficulties had reference solely to the varia tion in the value of moneys that mutt be effected by the assimilation ; but they might be obviated by passing an Act of Parliament for dissolving all contracts that had been made during the old cur rency, and reducing the pecuniary considerations to a twelfth leas than the sum contracted for.- -The remedy was extremely simple, for the Com mittee mast be-aware that the difference between the circulation of England and Ireland is in the value of the shilling, which passes in Ireland for 131 and in England for 12d. This rmedy would obvi ate all difficulties,-except in cases of debt under a shilling, or in the payment of fees under that sum, many of which, he understood from his Honourable and Learn ed Friend (Mr. Leslie Foster) were elected in several of the Law Offices in Ireland. He was aware that many in Leland bad argued in favour of the variation in the currency, contending, that it operated as a bounty on exports, and as a tax on absentees. These advantages be recognised, but they could not be sup ported to the destruction of general principles. If the rate of exchange was at present 20 per cent. against Ireland, what, he asked, would it be when the sue. plus revenue of that country was remitted to this to defray the charges of the general expenditure ? In submitting his present proposition to the house, he readily acknowledged the weight that would thereby be thrown on the Empire, until Ireland bad so far improved her revenues, as to be able to bear her due share of the burden. If the revenue of Ire land had improved within the last four years, he would not presume to take to himself an; merit for that improvement. It principally belonged to the indefatigable zeal and extraordinary industry of the people themselves that this desirable object had been obtained, added to the ability and exertions of the Noble Person who at present presided over the Government of that Country.' Much praise was also due to his Right Honourable Friend (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) towards whom it was im possible for him to express himself in terms of ade quate gratitude and commendation.—(llear, hear). Should the resolutions which he was about to propose meet with the approbation of the House, those ar rangements which it would be necessary to adopt, with a view to the minor details of the plan, would hereafter be submitted to Parliament. In conclusion, he bad only to express his conviction that the adop tion of those resolutions would tend more to the ac complishment of the great objects which the measure of the Union had in view, than any course which could have been pursued. The Right Honourable Gentleman then moved two resolutions for equalizing the taxes, and consolidating the, Exchequers of Eng land and Ireland, according to the plait developed in the course of his speech.—The first Resolution having been read by the Chairman — '`Mr. BANKES rose and observed, that all the evil consequences which he bag foretold as likely to result from the junction of Leland with this country, had now come to pass. Ireland had, as-he bad stated, been reducid to a state of bankruptcy, and was un able to bear her fair proportion towards the general burdens of the United Kingdom. Indeed, she was scarcely capable of paying the interest of the debt which she had been obliged annually to incur, in order to defray the proportion of the expenses of the two countries which was assigned her. Bound to gether, as the two countries now were, the evil, such as it was, must be borne with as much good huMour as possible. He could not but lament, however, for the good of both countries, that the Union had ever taken place. All he could deduce from the state of things to which we had been reduced, was, that it still more became the House to act with Strict eco nomy and retrenchment, and to look with attention to the curtailment of every unnecessary expense.— He denied that the assimilation of the currency of the two countries would produce any alteration in tha rata cif 'ahoy, inasmuch as that AIM at all then sibli He ;!ii.- les on dAStilla t i o , which, both in Ireland and in S cot l and, lie wit &ed, was the parent of ir.tinite discontent. t won tw it t pr whole, he should feel it his duty to watch th • ' o rto of the Bill which would he int ro d uce d upon ttis sub. ject with great attention ; for although he did nut suspect any unfair play, yet he considered it i rott rant to watch, with a jealous eye, over the inr ere ,o of those whom he represented, t h e more especialq, as he very much doubted whether the same system of taxation could be adopted in Ireland as in t hi s country. The taxes certainly could not be colle cte d upon the same terms, and, therefore, could not b e proportionably productive. Mr. FITZGERALD, in explanation, denied r he had said the assimilation of the currency of b e . land and England would alone produce any effe ctua l difference in the rate of exchange betwee n t h e too countries, which must always be propor t i one d to the Leland ynmg statement. to proportion state of their respective balances of i mport . or ex. ports. He did say, however, that by the arrimilaa ton of the currency, much of the difficulty here to f ore arising from the dissimilarity of coin would be avoided, and much of the apparent differen ce o f ex. change would be obviated. Mr. LESLIE FOSTER entered into a fi latie 4 l su pro ve e io t utter he po * of expense impossibili ty of cl upon es te i p by the Act of Union, and to support the principl e upon which the measure now suggested to the Ho me had been brought forward—a measure which, he hat no doubt, would consolidate all those advantage: cat Union was cakulated to produce. Sir JOHN NEWPORT contended, that the cr.o rte about to be pursued towards helots.", wAs no more than an act of justice to that country, and an act which, in his opinion, ought to have been resort e d re long since. At the period of the Union, although net in Parliament, he had given it his support out of doers. He felt it his dotty now to state, boa ever, that the hopes then held out on the part of this country were delusive; that the expectations excited were not fel. filled ; and that many public measures, which were to have been the result of the Union, remained unete. cuted. Much had been said of the progress of prrspe. rity in Iteland since the Union ; but he begged leave to observe, that in many instances the exports had been less since that event than before—he alluded partial. larly to her linen trade, in which her exports woe greater in 1792 and 1795, than they had been since the Union. The Right Hon. Baronet then proceeded,witk his usual clearness, to point out the evils under which Ireland had laboured, as well from the absence of its principal landholders, as from the adoption of an er. roneous system of taxation, which had enhanced the deficiency of her revenue. With respect to the pre. sent nieasure, be thought it would have keen better if it had been adopted three years back, as to have held out the hope that she could have paid the pro. portion of the burdens of the State imposed upon her at the Union, was merely to have kept alive a dela. sion, which could only end in some such course as that now about to be t 'ken. It was his opit;ion,thAt in the consolidation of the taxes of the two countries, no tag should be imposed upon Ireland which was not imposed upon every part of Great Britain at the same time. whe Lord CASTLEREAGH submitted that the pro. 1 portion of the burdens of the United Kingdom im posed upon Ireland, was founded in equity and illS• rice, and such as :,,e would have lv:en fully able to bear, but from the new state of things which had sprung up when we first sent our armies to the Pe- ninsula to fight for the liberties of Europe. The ' Noble Lord then went on to contend, that, but ter the Uniou, Ireland would have been placed in situation of far greater difficulty than at present; which would, in fact, have been irreparable. The Noble Lord concluded with a compliment to Ireland for the manner in which she had borne the taxes whicia it became necessary to impose upon her. Whatever other complaints the people of Ireland had made, against the taxes, at least, he heard of no objection. Mr. PONSONBY said, that the present questios resolved itself into a very simple and intelligible pro position. It was this—that Ireland had been called upon so bear a burden which she was unable to sop port, and, as she was unable to pay, England must. This was the true state of the fact, and there was no necessity for enveloping it in any obscure statement. With respect to the Noble Lord's assertion, that the people of Ireland did not complain of taxation, he could only assure that Noble Lord, that he was most egregiously mistaken, as to the feelings of the peo- ple upon that score. So far were they from not corm plaining, that the complaints were universal—end more especially among that class of the con.munity,' which, in his opinion, were the most important, be . meant the small gentlemen, who had been taxed out of every comfort o 4 life (Hear.) From a paper on thin . table of the House, it appeared that in the c•iurse of the last year notices had been given in Ireland alone, of an intention to put down cat riages of two and four wheels, to the number of three thousand. This was strongli indicative of the feeling with which taxatioo was regarded among the inhabitants of thlt cLuatry. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. The Resolutions were then put and carried. On a question from Mr. Transirr, it was under stood that the Civil List discussion will come on os bringing up the Report of the Committee on Friday. it Th thne As Ii A LIIN BILL. by I be i bee Lord CASTLEItEAGHmoved to brio; up tte Report on this Bill. Mr. J. P. GRANT opposed the Bill, as contrary to the policy and coastitution of the country. Mr. Serjeant BEST" referred to the au.hority of Blackstone, as of high importance in determining Os fuestion with regard to this country. Puffendoris and all the writers on the law of nations, had laid it down as a principle, that the Sovereign had a right to regulate the terms upoii which foreigners shcald be permitted to reside in the country'. But be di‘ rely merely upon those authorities—he had also the authority of Lord Grenville, who, in I7A, admitted the same doctrine. He should prove fro o his opinion that this principle was not new to the co istituuon, having expressly admitted that the Cr swn had suck power. Lord Loughborough had also st ted, that this was a power which had always resided it the Crow,. as •C V • 4P . stipend Upon the speciS e differen ces rse out of the eacess of importation or erpnrie‘ the one side or the other. The Hn n . G ti entl,:n ut be ci 11 proceeded to tema i k, t h at it would be i 4 t heir le to maintain id Ireland many of the dutie s 1,1, 4 it. re imposed, and whici i li nur i s h ed during tte to particularly alluded to d ie duties nil dist,ll..: