Star. — London, England, 1807-08-04 00:00:00

'edition or difloyalry. In the county of Kilkenny, alfn. the ;:rand J:try of the county, in a folemn trn.i authentic document, took notice of the harpy • Rate of that count), if the harmony which exilled between the Prot&Lints and the Catholics, and ex preffed their with that this happinefs and harmony fhould he Hill farther increafed, by a full participa• lion the Catholics, in all the bleffings of the Con• flirtiti.m. There are and .uhtedly molt relpeetable and netaltty authorities, that the (late of Ireland is nor filch a• to require meatures of onufnal rig or p..,1 feve•ity. Ott the other hand, we have an an thority whom n o man tefpeets , n - .t e highly than I d• , , I mean the Right Hon( nrahle Repreleutative of Dublin (Mr. Grattan.) I admire his great talents, his independence and his int- grilc ; and, as an Irifh man, although I have principally refided in this cuuntry, I feel a drbt of gratitude to biro far his great exertions in former times for the independence acid happinefs of Ireland. So hi hits do I refpeti his private authority, that I cannot help balancing it againit all thole —• eat authoiities on the other fide. and feel confide doubt and hefitation how I fhnuld determine in my own mind, wh-n thnfe fo. lemn and deliberate documents which I have al luded to, are contraßed with his great authority.— When there is this contradidinn among the authori ties, it appears to me that it is a great and, I will fay, imperious duty. for Pail; rnent to take this im portan• fuhjed into its moll ferinus confiderati n. Let it not be faid that we fly from the confiderati•ni of the topic, and legiflate merely from hearfay ! Let it not be Paid that we are either prevented by ;lid , lence, or by a timid apprehenfion of danger, from fairly confidering the grounds of thole extraor dinary meafures which have been retorted to with re(ped to Ireland! As to the charge of nfing inflammatory language, •.ith a view to produce irritation and difcontent in Ireland, I feel that it is a charge which will not at tach to me. 'I do not think it prefumptuons fir me to lay, that nn man can be more free than myfelf from the 101pieinn of wifhing t.i flir up fediti n, mu tiny. or di' illedion, in any part of the empi•e.— ( our cries of Hear : hear !) There is no man hiving that fat , fee with more detellation than I do, there Mile:able traitors (if any loch do exift in Ireland) who would furrender the o)nflitutinn and liberties of their country t , a foreign tyrant. Ido not deny that tome filch wie,ches may exitt in Preland, but I atnc , nvinced that their number is very (mall. When I look at all the apperances, I cannot beliiwe there is any danger of a general and alarming ipirit of in. ftnredion in that country. On the contrary, if I were to fupp-fe a foreigner, crunpletely a Itr anger to our prejudices, had turned his attention to the af fairs of this empire, and of It eland in particular:— I' think that fuch foreigner world rather fay, " ngratulate the Government of this country on the loyalty of the people of Ireland," and he would add, I judge of this loyalty from four reafor.s. ifl.When the Duke of Bedford was rafhly called upon by forme ill judging men to proclaim a particular county he refuted to do 10, and found thE the opetati , n of the ordinary laws of the country was abundantly fufficient to 'c lime and preferve its tianquiliity. The fecond ro u nd upon which I infer its loyalty, is from the mdifpofition which it thews to tumult. Even when you rejeßed the Catholic Bill( which might naturally bf fuppofed to be a ground of irritation l they did not th ew the (calf difpo fi tion to riot. Even when you fent over all the feeds of tint wrapped up in your proclamation to diffolve the Parliament, hill the• people of Ireland fhewedno tendency to infrincElion.' Such foreigner might go on and fay, In the third place, I find, from what. has palled in Kilkenny and Tipperary, that thole counties which were reprefen• ted as difturbed, arc in the molt profound peace and bat ninny ; and in the fourth place, when I fee you withdrawfo large a portion of yOur army from Ire land, when I lie you take away the whole German Legion, which appeared to be a force peculiarly cal culated to watch and put down infurredion, I Can• not conceive that you can feel any faint's alarm on account of the Bate of Ireland.' Such mutt be the opinion of any impartial foreigner- 7 -Inch mull be the idea of every man who would form his judgment from falls, and not from heel fay, or the private au thority r f individuals. 4. I thould now with to hear from 11:s tlajelly's Miniflers what kind of anfwer they could give to loch a foreigner ? 'They would perhaps fay, as to your firli ground, the Duke of Bedford was wrong in not tiling thole extraordinary powers, and in content trig himfelf with the powers of the law. As to there being no riots in Ireland, they would fay that was all accident. They would fay, that Judge For, in the Grand Jury of Kilkenny, did not know the Rate of the counties of Tipperary and Kilkenny.as well as they did ; but that, as to the fourth point, they did not, withdraw the troops (tom Ireland without having a molt excellent expedient to fupply the abfence of them. If they had marched out an army, they in tended, at the fame time, to march in an At of Pailiament. If they had withdrawn a legion, they had introduced a law—(a laugh).--This expedient would, to he fine, found' fomewhat grange in the ears ol" a foreigner ; he 'would not readily underßand that Ireland could be..as well gartifoned by Alts of Parliament as by an 2014 ; If arc now to argue the matter on tritifb. feelings, I will afk the Heufe, why is it that they bo:4 that they intend to make the people of England an armed people as far as it is p „t ao k, when at the lime time tl-ey are determined to make the people cf Ireland any thing but an ar med people? If you perlift in difarming the Will people, and that country Ihould ever be invaded, I have only two qnztlions to ail: you : When you have taken from the Irith people their arms, what are they to tight with ? Whcn.you have taken away their con iiitution, what are they to fight ? 66 But I am told by fume of thole high authorities, that there is certainly a French faction exiting in Iceland. I ails, when was there not,a French faition in that country ? Since the days of goeen Elizabeth, this country has put rued fuch a vile and narrow po re), towards Iceland, that naturally drove many of Cie high fpirited youths of :hat country, who were connected with the Cathrnic faith, to leek for an afy lim in France, from which they regularly cond . - p.nided with their ft ields in Ireland. This was the c ode that produced a french fadion in Ireland, and ao Irina faiftion in Fiance. Before the ccnceffions which were made in the coarfe nf the prefent reign, the treatment of Ireland . was work than the treat- meat of any country which ever had been conquered and nppretted by the vilett of tyrant , . It is true , that there n ere many important ennceffions during the preterit reign. It is alto true, that there is a mode of conferring benefits and boons that made the obligation be little felt, and hardly excited gratitude. There appeared to he an extraordinary vanity in the modes that had been retorted to for oppretling Ire land. Sometimes it was done by attacking the rich, f metinice, by grinding and fcourging the poor, and at ether times by (hiking at the putinits of cr.mmer cial men. With all this variety of oppreftion, fume •petrt le a ffeCted to confider it wonderful that the Irifh had been a difcontented people. This reminds me of a Rory I have heard, where an frith drummer was one of the principal charafters. While he was flogging a foldier, according to the fentence of a court martial, the poor fellow, writhing with pain, intreated him to change his mode of lathing him. Sometimes he called to him to lirike a little higher, and fometimes a little lower. The drummer endea voured to accommodate him as far as it was in his power ; but finding it to no purpofe, at laft cried out, " Upon my cnnfcience, you are a difcontented fellow ; whether I (bike high or low, there is no fuch thing as pleating you."—(a loud laugh). This is precifely the cafe with retpett to Ireland. Not. ithltanding the infinite variety of oppreffion exer cited againft them, there are Bill a number of them who are fo unreafonable as to be difcontented. " If I am then Aced, am I fo lure of the loyalty of the people of Ireland, as to fay that no precaution necelTary ? I will anfwer that the precaution that I would take is this : I fhnuld with the King's army to he kept on the moll complete footing, as a guard of hour tr to the crollittition, the laws, and fiber-, ties, of Ireland. At times like the prefent, I would not rift the exillence of Ireland, or of the empire by being unprepared ; brit the preparation I would with for, is an army, and not fevere laws. I cannot fay that I would trull the defence of Ireland altogether to the fpirit of its inhabitants, becaufe no man can potlibly know to what extent the fpirit of difconteat may have prevailed. No man can fay or know to what might be the feelings of a confiderable portion of the population, if an enemy landed in force; and therefore, although I fee no ground for great dif truft, flee abundant grOund for the precaution of having a large military force in that country. Your fevere laws may teach pe4le the cunning to be filent, brit ihtre can be nrohing fo truly overawing as a great military force, filch as would detlroy all hopes of fucceir.ful infurteetioe, and even damp the hopes which the partiz ins of the French would otherwile feel, in the event of invatinn. A large army would be the bell teem ity againi any general infurreElion ; and as to partial ats.l hidden rifings, or tumults, the Conftitution is fufficiently powerf u l to fupprefs them. Marial law is, under certain circumstances, a con- Ititutioral entitle. When martial law is, however, pr , claimed in its proper &ape, it is well watched by the vigilance of thole who are fubmitted to it ; the necellity of it mutt be apparent ; and thole who proclaim it, aft under a moll ferinus refponfibility. This meafure, however, is infinitely worfe than mar- Cal law, becaufe it enm!s difguifed and freed from refpo- fihility in thofe who were to exercife it. It was martial law " in mafqrterade," that had not the boldnefs to avow itfclf. It was martial law free from refponfibility, and extended for a length of time to ourfelves, that were in perfeft peace. " It has been always the fenfe and praftice of the Conftitution of this Country, that the people fhould be armed to meet any danger which threatened them. Experience and the hiftory of all nations, but Parti cularly of the Englifh nation, thew that an armed people are, among themfelves, full as peaceable, if not more fo, than a people difarmed and driven to del - pair. In the ancient times of our hiftory, what ever internal difcontents and feuds might exift, it was never fuppofed unfafe on that account to due Corn miflions of Array, and call the greater part of the population of the country out in arms. So far from apprehending any danger from fuch a meafure, it was fometimes even reckoned good policy, and calling the Englifh nation out in arms againft a foreign enemy has often bees found the heft way of appearing do meltic difcontents. The ancient Kings of England never thought there was any danger, nor never found s , any, from calling the nation to arms, whatever private difcontents might exift. Where then was the need fity of treating Ireland in a manner to very different from that in which England had always been treated? I will now put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), whether he can ima gine or conceive any pottbke fituation in which he. would venture to propofe for this country the fame measures which have been now enaCled for Ireland ? There have been times when this country has been in greater danger, and when much more difaffeetion prevailed in it; and yet no Minifter had ever the boldnefs to propofe for England meafures any thing at all fimilar to thole which have been In long allied on in Ireland, and which have now been re enaCted. The ditaffetlion and the danger in th;s country has been much greater than is pretended now to exift in Ireland. When the Pretender was alive, and there were million: of Jacobite: in the country, and before their hopes were cut down in the year 1745, no Englfth Minifter ventured to propofe loch meafures as have been adopted for Ireland, al though, from the difference of the authorities, there feems confiderable doubt whether there is any con fiderable or alarming difaffeeion now in Ireland. Did any Englith Minifter ever think of propofing a law, that Engli:hmen were not to be out of their beds after fun and all the re( of that catalogue of feverities which were now engled againft Ireland ? If no provocation ever did or could induce an Englith Minifter to propofe fuch laws for England, why fhould they beenatied againft Ireland ? But it is Paid that this is only a tufpenfion of the Conftitution in Ireland for three ye irs. Ido not like this mode of giving leafes to the Crown of the Conftitution and the liber ties of the country. Leafes of this fort are too apt to be renewed, and in the prefent cafe the Crown has had the !cafe for 14 years, and it has been renewed for One years longer. What will he the end of this? will ele Contlitution be ever rettored to Ireland ? I fear that a people that fo quietly refigut its liberties to the Gown for a time, will never regain them. The au thority of the Right Hon. Gentlemen ( Mr. Grattan) was every thing with Minitters, when they wanted to lay fume coloura b le foundation for their BiU ; but when the fame Right Hon. Gentleman contended, with onanfwerable arguments, for Worsening the ‘ - doratinn of the Bill, then as his authority did not Nit their purpofe, it went for nothing. As to the arms that are to be feized under this Bill, ►here i., to he lure, a receipt to be given by the feiziog Jullice, and promile or reflore theta at the end of the three years, but I fhould with to fee the receipt which the talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could produce, that would anfwer as a receipt for the Conititution of a free country, depofited in the hands of Minitlers for three years, and to be by them reßored at the end of three years frelb and unimpaired. " If it were anted, what refource would the people have, if Minifters f h ould not reftore the t►u(l ? Scone would anfwer, that the only appeal of a people in lured and outraged was to arm.. This appeal was, however, to be cut off, as they were not to be all , ,wed arms to try the quarrel. It is imprable but that the Irifh mutt remember all the fine prim:des which were made at the Union, not one of which have been rea lized. As to that freedom of Constitution and equal rights, which Ireland was promifed at that time,, it puts me in mind of the prefents which are fometimes made to a child, and which the mama promifes to take care of, for fear the child would make a bad ufe of them. Ireland had been molt egregioufly duped and trifled with. There has not been a tingle aft done to carry into ale& the promifes of the Union. I (hall read you an extra& from one of the pamphlets written at that time : • If we were to be one people, the preponderance of the Proteftants throughout the Empire would be f► great, that there could be no longer any jealoufy between the two religions, or any pretext for curbing and reftraining the Roman Catho. lics of Ireland.' This pamphlet is not from any mean authority : it is the produeion of no leis a man than Doeor Duigenan (a loud and general laugh.) Thefe were the promifes held nut by fuch men as Dr. Duigenan and Lord Redefdale, in corjunetion with Mr. Pitt, znd others of that Adminißration, who are alfo Members of the prefent Cabinet. The Secretary for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Canning) and the Noble Lord (Lord Caftlereagh) are emphatically pledged to the Catholics of Ireland, and they had a right to expel that they would be their friends when ever they fhould come into power. When they found their expatiations thus crufhed, their hopes deferrtd and deceived, it was natural to fuppofe there w^uld be fume difcontent. I have no hefitation in allowing, that many who have oppofed their claims in this Houfe, have ailed from the molt confcientious feel ings ; but I will afk, what mutt the Irifh think of thofe whom they conf►dered as bound by a pledge and who have abandoned it ? •• I cannot blame thole perfons from acquiefcing in the confcientious Cowles of the King ; I know there was a pretty general union of fentiment in this coun try upon the occafion, and I gave the late Admini ftration more credit for withdrawing the Bill than I did for bringing it forward. ( Hear ! hear ! from the Miniflertal Beneher.) Bat, when I allow that thofe Members of the Cabinet were right in acquiefcing with his Majelly's fcruples, how could they efcape his fevereft difpleafure and indignation,if they (tumid join in railing the cry of " No Popery I" when, from the pledges they had given, it molt be well known that they would have wifhed the meafure to pafs. I hope that thofe who were fo f ledged, did feparate them felves in the Cabinet from the perfons who let up that hideous yell, and (hewed that they were not difpofed to throw new obftacles in the way of the Catholics. I certainly do not confider that the Bill which was brought in, was of that importance which appeared to belong to it by thofe who brought it in. I think that in their meafures, for the relief of Ireland, they began at the wrong end, and that if we with to make Ireland contented and happy, we fhould look to the cottage and the potatoe gar. den, rather than to the mention and the park. Any attempt to improve the condition of Ireland, that does not begin with the lower order, appears to me like dreffing out a (hip with gaudy flags, when the has ten feet water in the hold ; or putting a laced hat on a man who has no !hoes. The (late of the loaer orders of the people in Ireland has been much mifreprefented in this country. Many fuppofe that they are incorrigibly idle, and naturally fo turbulent and diforderly, that it is impoffible to make them comfortable or happy. Thole who think fo know little, and have read little of the Rate of the Irtfh Peafantry. Among the pamphlets written on the fubjeft, that written by Mr. Bell would afford much ufeful information. If we look at the bilk labourers in this country, we will find a very different charac ter, Many of them thew confiderable enterprize when they come to this country for bread, and deferve praife when they return to (hare it with their families —Almott all the hard work in this Metropolis is done by Irifhmen, and the watchmen and patroles, to whom the fecurity of the city is committed at night are almat exclufively of that country. Will it then be Paid that thofe who in this country (hew themfelves to be hardy, tobull, induftrious, and faithful, have none of thofe qualities when they are in their own country ? If they do not (hew the fame qualities there, it is from grofs mifmanagement on the part of their rulers. It now appears almrdt a hacknied topic to fay, that this is a molt critical and momentous period —I am really lick of your Continental Allies, your magnanimous Emperor Alexander, and all the reft of them. I have read in a Paper of this day, that this magnanimous Emperor bnalted of returning trium phant to his capital, with his dominions increafed.— But how were they increafed ? From the plunder and fpoil of his conquered Ally, the King of Pruflia. If, instead of taking away any thing from him, he had given him fomething in confideratien of his folks, then I would have faid that was fomething like mag nanimity. When I look at the Map of Europe, where Mr. Burke once thought he taw a blank— which once was France—l can now fee nothing but France. If I look to the EaR Indies, I fee an Em pire badly managed ; if I look to the. Welt Indies, I fee the planters and merchants in a Rate of the greaten (lifters (I am glad to find that the Houfe have refolved to take their cafe into consideration next Seffion). When I look to America, I fee a molt dilagreeable profpeet, although I have no hefitation in laying, that we mull never give up thole rights which have made us a great maritime nation. When I look to Ireland, I fee that our Statute Book points it out as a country where ferious infurrettion is to be apprehended. After having feen thole gloomy prolpeets in every direttion, what confolatiin do I find in turning my eyes to the fituation of our own Government, and to what peas within the walls ? . . Wl,l eEurop Bonaparte fee a Ite nothing tslr h a e k r e in b g n ; p n e . f. t y ) f h ' ' l c ' k e e t n in a g rie s n i rt prevarication. Each pary teems . as anxi , us i n t he 1 1 Y Pllncs as it t c h o e m y p i A la r d ifo a n w o a f ge t r h d ei e r pe d n iff li zei . n ts.7 : i i c li h t4 o , r would culla the greatefi number of men in a given On my plan is better than yours ; t he olheerpfaatyty fYs' s, y ou a were guilty of a vile jb; the oth er r eplies, your j .b was the win II ; and to we go on . in paltry childifh difpures, while our enemy is con. Tiering kingdoms, and threatening the glory, the h•mour, the independence, and the very exilletrce of the coutury. See how Bonaparte has emp l oye d hi d time, while we confume ours in ttiflivg wrangler He has furrouttded his empire, not merely with fuch an iron barrier as the vanity and ambii , rn of Louis XIV. afpired to : he has furl-minded it with empires and kingdoms of his own creation. He has hound the Sovereigns of thefe countries to hi m b y b ene fi ts . and by the ties of obligation. Their vatitode wth ferve as hoflages, and their fears will he fufficient pledges of their fidelity. The Paltfadoes wh ch fur round the ramparts •. f his Thr, ne, are c-mpoled of the Sceptre and Crown of the Monarchs be Itimfell has made. States of his own creation a'e the Martell° Towers which are to defend Fist Empire, and Sovereigns are his fentinels. What Ally now remains for this country, and what is the 'ma. Pure which I ropofe ? I propofe an affeaionate alli ance with lid and. I call upon you to fublidize Ireland; not with money, which your Continental Allies have been always ready to take from fins without performing their fervice, but by ads of jullice. Janice is all that Ireland eats for or looks for at your hands. If you are prepared to do juftice to Ireland, you will gain an ally more faithful and mrre important than any you have loft upon the Continent. I allow that the prefent times are times of danger, but true manly fpirit does not refute to look at danger. We mutt examine it, know what it is, and weigh it well, and then be prepared %ki t h dauntlefs hearts to meet it. ( Loud cries of hear ! hear!) If we at as we ought to do, although the country lhould be invaded, I rely on fuccefs under PROYI. DENCE ; but if we fhould fail, and anv ltillorian le allowed by the tyrant to record the late of the Em pire, it would be fail of us that we were a nation fa;thful, not only to our allies, but to the great prin ciples of liberty; that thole two fmall Blinds formed a nation which was the altar and the lall afylum of freedom upon earth; and that when we contended for • it, we fought with all that h , ly zeal that fh .01d in. fpire brave men, in preventing the violation of fuch a fanauary." He thee concluded by moving " That the Houfe will immedi itety on meeting of the tatting SelSon of Parliament, proceed to take into their molt fcrious and folemn confideration, the State and Condition it lrelrnd, in the anxious hope, that fuch meafttres and remedies may be fairly adopted in regard to the dikontents alizged to add in that, country, as may render unneceffary the continuance of thole pro vinous which the Legiflature of the Linked Kingdom ha. deemed, it t xpedient reludautly to adopt at the clofe of the prefent inf and the permanence of which would he a violation of the rights of the people of Ireland, and a fubvetfion of the fpirit and practice of our free Conditution." Ths CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEUER. raid, it was not his intention to follow the /tight I Honourable Gentleman through the various parts of his fpeech; but there were one or two topics on which he could not forbear to make fome obferva. tions. He particularly thought it neceffary to inforna the Houfe, that the Right Honourable Gentleman had made a very great miaake in that part of his aatement, in which he Paid that Government had, in the prefent fituation 41 the c•tuntry, drawn out of it a very large military force, and, in lieu therenf, had garrifoned Ireland by two Afts of Parliament. He allowed that a confiderable body of troops had been withdrawn from Ireiand ; but, at the fame time there was a very thong force left in that country—a force fully fufficient and adequate to its military de- fence, which had, in fait, been reduced in a very in. confiderable degree ; for by varying the difpofiti.nt of troop;, and where they take from one quarter fop. plying their places from another, that was cardh guarded againft. In fad', there were now ablve 50,000 men in rank and file in Ireland, and the Right Honourable Gentleman would fee, that not. withßanding it had been thought neceffary to fend from thence a very large body of men, yet the mili. tary defence of the country had not been negled:d. by thofe who formed the prefent Adminiaration He thought it necefrary thus early to correft this miaake, lea an idea Mould be entertained that Mi. niflers had for a moment been regardlefs of the pro. per defence and fecurity of the country againti all. afrailants. He then proceeded to advert to the point which the Right Honourable Gentleman had in view, in bringing forward the refnlution which had soft been read from the chair; and he could not, he hid, but be fnmewhat furprifed, • that the Right Honour. able Gentleman thould, on that night, make it the foundation of arguments againft certain meafores that had palled that Houle, when, in point of propriety and of fairnefs, he ought th have oppofed thole mea• lures during the time they were in their progrefs through the Houle. It appeared to him, alto, to be fomewhat furprifing, that the Right Honourable . Gentleman fhould urge filch arguments as he had pit made ufe nf, by way cf appealing the feelings of the people of Ireland ; and when he dated that the people who could fubnsit to fuch meafures, were, in his opinion, preparing to make a furrender of their liberties for ever, he thought that was not a proper language to be ufed at the prefent momeat. The Houfe upon the fullea and faired inveiticostion of the lubjeet, and after it had been warmly ch bated in the various flages of the two Bills, had thought proper to pats them into laws; and he could hardly topple that in fo &nit. a time they would he induc e d to alter their condufl, and proceed to a condemnation of what they had previoufly done, by admitting a refo. lotion which went direftly againft thole very Bills. He thought it indeed art extravagant esneflation in the Right Honourable Gentleman to fuppofe, that the Houle could fo far be led away by the extent and varie'y of his arguments, as not to perceive the in• confifiency with which they mull aft, if they adopted the refolution now fubmitted to their confideration. He was well allured, he (aid, that the Houle would always be ready to enter warmly and zealoolly upon any meafure that might be thought likely to be be neficial to Ireland, let it come from either the Right Honourable Gentleman himfelf, or from, whatever other quarter it might. Ther.: was no necafiry, therefore, for the Houle to pledg: itfelf to tbat diva by any previous refolution. He was certain in his ovn mind, whatever might have been at any tio e