Star. — London, England, 1819-05-19 00:00:00

Jr. - t 1 111 4 • . • IP. * 1 I 4 # t 4 , A di i , ___.—.os=ams.llllll 4 - Tide called the,Report of a Committee, but it was in point oet a deereate ' , -particular branches,. but I lact nothing more than the Rep ort of the (Thancellor tw ottld prilve h gin 3m. end total stagnationa It of the Exchequer . That Report liad certainly come had neveraaccurred'iok misters, that it might be to the House through the Chairntan of a Commit proper to ao someihing is .bite shape of a coin- tee, but it had first been handed to ltheeby the Eight . rnercial treaty, 'inept an the case of America.= Honourable Gentleman at the head of the France And yet by this very ,may they had scattered more Department, who on this occasion had thought, pro dismay among the persons . connected with the New- per to avail himself of other org ans than his own. foundland trade than any treaty had done before. From that Repert, it appeared that there was a real Thee was a cheering hope arising from the steuggle surplus of {1,500,000 applicable to the reduction'of of a brave people contending for national indepen- the public debt in the present year. This so applied dence. An opening seemed prepared for our trade would, in the course of the next two years, effect a in South America, but as if this were too favourable, diminution of the debt, and with the £5,700,000 al a Bill Was now depending in the House, which would ready mentioned, and other items which he enume exasperate those nations whom it would be our best rated, would make the total reduction accomplished policy to conciliate, and would close that last and in five years of peace amount to £12,000,000, and * lonely hope t When our manufacturers were starving no more. Now he would ask lf, after this statement, at' ome, this wide issue for the sale of their goods which could not be disproved, he had not a right fit would thus be entirely cut off by the impolicy of the bring . f o rward a Motion like that which he should Government, and we should th row the whole trade subm it to the House this night? Was it not time of Soith Ametica, if we could manage it, into the for the House to interfere when Ministers werepur hands otother nations. Ministers had therefore done suing such a course ? Let any man who heard him worse thln nothing. They had deeply injured our lay his hand on his heart, and say, if he could, that trade, and violated all the feelings which used to they ought to continue their career, and go on sacri forrn e guide of the British character. He would ficing th e i nte rests of the nation, as the y were pow t 11 the attention of the House very briefly to doing, because they felt that they could not keep financial situation of the country, from the sth their places, if they ventured on bringing forward ; e w o January, 1816, the first year of peace after the such measures as the circumstances of the country return of Bonaparte, to the sth of Jdnuary, 1819,—. required. He had shewn that after five years of This period would afford a fair sample of what peace, if they were suffered to go on, but £12,000,000 might be expected frdm his Majesty's Government of the debt would be redeemed, and then the coun on subjects of finance. On the sth of January, 1816, try would find itself encumbered with a debt of more the total of the funded and unfunded debt amounted than £800,000.000 to meet the events which might to ff6o millions. One might have thought that with then arise, and, if necessary, with such a burthen to such a mass before them, Ministers would have lost enter upon a new war. He would now offer a few no time in making arrangements to cope with so words on the situation in which Ministers stood with formidable an adversary. They had made a weak respect to the Bank. The I louse were aware that attempt of this kind vlienahey proposed to continue the Consolidated Fund was that fund to which the the Property Tax, fqt on that rested . all their hopes public creditor had to look for his dividend. What of a remedy. , The Propertk Tax was rejected, as ever went to that Fund was applicable for the eis every Member of the House well knew, and Minis- charge of his dividend, Now that Fund was at pie ters had not resigned. That was not to be expected sent in arrear to the amount of £3,300,000. There —(laughter). It might have been thought that they was no immediate promise of improvement. To would have formed some other plan, but they gave thatJ3,3oo,ooo was to be added £2,700,000 payable up the War Malt Duty, which had not been asked, to the Bank, making together a charge of1:6,000,000., and then resolved to have no plan whatever— Now, did the House know that the payment of the (laughter)—but to live their %%hole tune on the dividends every quarter depended upon the good bounty of the Bank, or what was still more agree- will of the Bank ; and if the Bank were to turn round able to them, on the Chapter of Accidents...4lo'VA. on the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and say, we will tcr). In 1816, they had borrowed nine millions, not lend you the £6,000,000 you want to pay your postponed the repayment of three millions due to the dividends, the Right Honourable Gentleman could Bank, and rent wed the restrictions on cash payments no more raise the sum wanted for that purpose than for two years. Thus ended the whole of the financial raise the dead—(Naar, hear, hear!) But if he could operations of that year ! In the next, the House find other m eans o f raising the money wanted to re heard the most flattering speeches and anticipations tisfy the public creditor, was it well that in a time of prosperity. The Stocks were to be at par, and of peace the payment of dividends should be left to the 5 per Cent. to be paid of. Nothing could °equal depend entirely on the good-will of the Bank? He the flourishing condition of the country. He did not was far from saying that the Bank would desire to wish to lay the blame pf all those speeches on the give the public creditor any inconvenience, because Right Rom Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of it might be their interest as well as their duty to the Exelequer). The Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh) avoid doing so; but was the state of things which he was equally responsible for them ; for the Chancellor bad described that which ought to remain? Though of the Excheqeet only spoke what was the sense of it was not likely that they would take a course dif the Cabieet—Vieer,teer). They really believed that ferret from that which they had hitherto pursued, the 5 per cents. were to be paid off; and had that yet• as they thought they were at present net very been effected, they would have committed a fraud— kindly used, what would be the consequence if they (Hear, deer, keae). That year ten millions had been should quarrel with the Chancellor of the Exchequer added to the unfunded debt. At the opening of for taking that line of conduct which he might think 1818, every thing was still represented in a flourish- it his duty to prefer, and leive him to do with the ing condition.' dreams of prosperity were still flitting dividends as he could? He would now take some before the eyes of the Ministry, and even the Report notice of the recent financial opesations of the Chan of the Committee of Finance stated that the time callor of the Exchequer. In the last year, the sum was not far distant when a great saving would be of £27,000,000 had been taised by loan, and no pro effected to the country. That year the Right Hon. vision had been made for the interest to be paid on Gentleman opposite had brought in his Three and a it, or for a sinking fund applicable to it. Nothing Half per Cent. Stock, as a preparation for paying off had been brought forward to meet the charge of its the Five per Cents. The payment of the £9,000k00 interest, which amounted to £1,600,000. Assuniing due to the Bank was then suspended for another the loan in the present year would be £22,000,000, year, and it became necessary that the resumption the interest on that sum, added to the charge he had of cash payments should be suspended also, and ac- just mentioned, would leave the sum of £2,900,000 to cordingly the return to payments in specie was post- be provided for on account of the two loans. Here, pored till the sth of July, 1819. He had moved then, the House would see they were placed in an last year for the appointment of a Committee to in- extraordinary situation, inasmuch as they had arrived quire into the affairs of the Bank, but then no one at the end of the third year of peace, without having would heir of such a thing. Such a proceeding, it provided for paying the interest of the money which was thought, would be improper, and the House they had been obliged to borrow at the end of the came to a vote against it ; and thus one entire year second. He had heard a rumour abroad that it was was lost. This year such an inquiry had been pro- intended to meet the charge by imposing new taxes; posed and agreed to, and the year woich had inter- if the Sinking Fund were resorted to on this occasion, ?eyed between his motion aud that which had been the House must make up their mind to lose the whole carried, it appeared to him was sacrificed merely of the miserable and contemptible surplus, the one because the proposition for the inquiry referred to, million nine hundred thousand pounds which he had had come, in the first instance, from the Opposition announced to be at present applicable to the reduc, instead of from the Ministerial side of the House.— tion of the national debt. The proposition for im- It might be supposed by some that the year which posing new taxes was one that deserved very serious had thus passed away was necessary to enable the consideration. -He would now distinctly tell the Bank to prepare for the resumption of cash payments, Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he would never No such thing. This was denied by Ministers them- vote for one new tax till he had placed the finances selves. The course now pursued had been stated to of the country on a proper and intelligible footing. have resulted from unforeseen circumstances ; but To vote new taxes would be to do no good. It the circumstances in question, he would maintain, would only goad and blister the public, year after had not been unforeseen. Could any thing, he would year, to no purpose, in order to bolster up a little ask, be more than the conduct of Go- longer a system which ought not to be permitted to veniment had been in these matters during the last be persevered in, and which, /rota the incessant fluc three years, in which they had accomplished so little? tuations which accompanied it, made it impossible It was material that the House should look to the for any man to know what property he possessed. final result of their measures. On the sth January, If, as he had hoped would have been the case, some IHI9, the Public Debt, funded and unfunded, more simple and intelligible plan of finance had amounted to £845,000,000. This was its amount in been brought forward, there might have been .some last January. On the sth January, 1516, it amounted temptations to vote new taxes, but he would vote for to £1359,000,000. It would then be seen, that in the none while no reform of oar financial system was at three years which had passed since the Peace, the tempted. This Ministers had net thought proper to reduction of the public debt which had been effected set themselves about, and going on as they did at amounted to £3+,000a:00, and no more. From this present, they turned their backs on their country, reduction, however, some allowance ought to be and proved that they wanted heart-vigilance and made for the assets in hand in 1816. At that period, energy sufficient to serve it. At present, as he had frotn the excess of certain grants, owing to particular already said, no man could tell the amount of his circumstances, there remained in the hands of Minis- property. Immediately after the peace, the Funds ters a sum of about £3,000,000. To this might be were at 63. A year ago, they were at 83, having added arrears of the Property Tax, which, with the risen no less than twenty per cent. and now they former sum, place 4 at the disposal of Ministers made had get down again to 72. These fluctuations gave altogether the sum iii £8,4604100. Deducting this fortunes to many, but destruction to many more.— sum from that by which the National Debt had Such a system had made the people of this country been reduced within the period referred to, the a nation of gamblers and stock jobbers, Ile did not real total balance,of improvement effected during mean to say those who were concerned in the funds the three first yetteh of peace would be found to had not a right to make use of their sagacity and do Le not .one farthig more than £5a00,000. Thus, that which was most for their own interest, but he t h en , in eke icii 1819 the nation was left with a viewed the present Government as responsible for all debt of £845,900,000, after three years of peace, the losses that were sustained. It was now under which debt wee not likely to be speedily diminished. stood that money was to be raised by a loan in the The hope bad out to them with respect to the re- present year, and speculation was as usual on the duction of die public debt, he had not much faith in. alert.. Next January would not arrive without bring- It ought to be known , generally that these were, in ing plenty of reports of what would be the course , fact, nothing more than those entertained by the pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1520; Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Noble Lord 1 and those fluctuations would continue, in the midst opposite. It was true, they had before them whatiof which no man could say his property was sec.uic. When he said this; he slid not mean to'say that pre meant that those fluctuations would take pla elt perty would not be secure from violence, but lb thwhiatchmhues,t inhis seriously conscie nce, vented, if the finances of the count r y were p ut on s proper footing, and which it was most des i r able to atrct pro o l i Pe es i7 e y d might be pro in a manna' avoid. If at the end of five years of peace, but £12,000,000 being paid off,- any of those possible occurrences should take place to which in the former should take place — if it shoul d onl y he part of his speech he had alludedi —if an y hostile ne gociation necessarycount with a to fit outdea:taromfantitie3nst,,otoohe,soolitu)a, would be of this tom fosntrepiergnilerous,s. and Th to diem ist*owa it would be useless tos no secret—it was known talk of the valour of our armies and navies, he was going to add of the wisdom of our Councils, but that was quite out of the question--(A lattgh4-1t was useless to talk of all these, if we possessed not the means of putting them in action , and t hese means would be wanting if some improvement were not made in our condition. The present motion, he,con fessed, in his view of it, went to alter the present Administration. He thought he had made out a case which justified him' in saying the situation of the country required the aid of vigorous and strong Councils—(Hear, hear.)—.He was glad to see the Noble Lord admitted this, and this admitted, he thought the House bound to interfere, Ly granting that which would be the 'lject of the present motion. Whoever looked at the 2 :;ent internal situation of the country, must reset that no Minister carted who was able or inclined to bring forward tho V 2 sub jects most intimately connected with its welfare, in a way calculated to hencfit the people. What bad been done with the Poor Laws ? A Conuni:tee had sat, and several [tills had been brought in which had failed. Of the two last that were introduced, one had survived its introduction, and the other was row in its last agonies. Was it not extraordinary that Ministers should, in time of recce, find no lci.ure to attend with effect, even to affairs like these ? Mi nisters had of late done nothing. He was now speak ing on the 18th of May, and he would ask the I louse what had been done in the course of the present Ses sion ? He would tell them what. They had now just got through the Asmy Estimates, and they had done nothing else, There bad been, indeed, a Com mittee appointed to inquire into the affairs of the Bank. He had moved for one, and Ministers, instead of acceding to his motion, had appointed a Commit tee of their own. His object was to alter the present Administration, but those who voted for the present motion need not go with him to that extent. Every man who voted against him woultf, in effect, record his perfect confidence in the wisdom and vigour of the present Ministers, and declare it his opinion that their career ought not to be interrupted—(Hear, hear.) — Whoever voted against him that night, virtually de dared that he had a confidence in his Majesty's Mi nisters, and that their career ought not to be inter rupted. Whoever voted for him, declared that he knew the country was in danger, and that he would enter into measures to obtain a remedy. .. He who voted with him might be an enemy to the promotion of the Opposition to offices. He might say—ii The Opposition may be hanged before I shall give them my support to get into place;' but this was all he hazarded by his concurrence. Whereas, he who voted against the question, must say, that he had a confidence in his Majesty's Ministers. It had been the old reproach, whenever the State of the Nation was moved to be taken into consideration' by a Com, injure, that the Opposition wished only to march into place. But he would answer for himself—if there was an individual in that House, who cared little about office, it was the bumble person who then addressed them (Cheer:4-ler he should say, that he always maintained, since his first admission to the House, that no man ought to be ashamed of avowing a wish to be promoted to office. There was no dis grace in the ambition of a man Who took office upon his own terms, and those of his friends. Office, in truth, ought to be the legitimate object to besought for, by all who thought he had within him the means of being useful to his country. He had not, he should confess, an indisposition to office, but he did not affect office. He was in possession of good healthc but still he was advanced in years ; and no longer was he the little that he had been. His fortune was limited, and therefore he could not with to obtain a lank, in which he knew that every man must be a loser. As to the hope of being useful to himself or his friends, he would despise such paltry motives— (Hear, hear.)—At the same time, he would assure the House, that if an opening occurred where he might undertake office upon his own principles, and those of his friends, he would think the opportunity worthy of any sacrifice.. The prosperity of the country de pended on a strong Administration. He would re peat it, the Ministers were doing no good—they could do no good. 'These were the opinions of him self ; and he would tell the Noble Lord, for he had a good opportunity of knowing it, of many outside the House—and not only of them, but of many who would vote for the Noble Lord that night. For, though such persons might stay away-with impunity on other occasions, though they might say—“ We won't go to the House to-night ; we won't vote for Scotch Burghs, and so forth ;" still upon the vital question of a change in Administration, the while force must be collected—Vicar, hear.) —glut there were some, no doubt, who might say, that if the pre sent were removed, no better Administration could be formed. If so, the country was truly in a bad state—(.llaugh)--and the only resource left, was for the House to resolve itself into a Committee, and Lvote its sittings permanent—(A laugh.)—He would y, that the Ministers wished to retain their own places at the hazard of the destruction of the prospe rity of the country. The House only wanted an ex ertion of good sense to express their opinion of use' present Administration. The way was now clear be fore them. It might be objected to him that his mo sa tion was premature in bang brought t n before the discussion of the Bank Report. To this he should simply say, that there was nothing in common be tween him and the Committee. Besides there could he no place better suited to the discussion of the Bank af fairs, than in a Committee on the St4e safthe Nation. -hen c t on ba s t ider w lin iaorau conjiniction v.. cosn wi:h ber the ore va a - The affairs of the Bank could only receive a proper enquiry i a l : i sub je cts ry Committee oil the State of the Naiion., At present there was a good deal of disagevincut among Mi- ...0211,11111=6.41.11111111AAA1t0rimmt..... ..L.C."...m....64_44, - ,A.a. . ... / - -- ' • . . . _ . . . . . -,'• --........ .. .. . • • • -•-- -- - . • . . , • - •- . -.• , , - , , • . . . . . , . . , I . . • e . ~ . .• , - II A _ t I ; . s - 1 • '7...4, .• e "4 II . ~. , I 1 . ~ tl .. I . i S .•' • • 5a1.P...."11114e."1.14111"..."1"..—m--"nAlt.' fork called tbe,Report of a Comtnittef, but it was in ' When he said thj r. .1 1 IP. ' polnt opt a deerlasa ' c pastictsr branches,, but l fact nothing more than the Report of the (Thancellor perty would not . • ~ .1 . . isvolgd prove "a" gen . . stagnation It of the Exchequer. That Reportind certainly come meant that tho I: , had never occtitred — tok artera,,that 4 might be to the House t h roug h the Chairniasi of a Commit- that must seri° proper to do tonteihtne n .Phe -shat of a coin- tee, but it had first been hwided to him-by the IZight which he, in his I , , 1 . . Yi. I', . . rnercial treaty, except .1n . the case o f America.— . . Honourable Gentleman at the head of the Finance vented, if the fir i: l i , i . . . . And yet by this very ,may they had scattered more Department, who on this occasion had thought, pro- proper footing,, : . 0 / . : ..i • . .r- dismay among the persons . connected with the New- per to avail himself of other organs than his own. avoid. If at tit ni i • • foundland trade than any treaty had done before. From that Repert, it appeared that there was a real £12,000,000 be .f ••i • . . . The-e was a cheering hope arising from the struggle surplus of 4:1,900,000 applicable to the reduction'of o c currences shot ..J • ,i , i 'lf of a brave people contending for national indepen- the public debt in the present year. This so applied part of his spree dence. An opening seemed prepared for our trade wduld, in the course of the next two years, effect a gociation shouh t 1 4 # in S9uth America, but as if this were too favourable, diminution of the debt, and with the 1:5,700,000 al- necessary to fit r , • , , A ......“3... ....... 6: .. -.a —.I ~a,.... ;rpm. which he enume• country, with g I Mr .! / • : . .i . i • ' 1 • i 1 . i i i l ' . ', • t t : I t , ,; ' i 1.• A . , 0 1 - , . I 1 1 1 'k • , t f - 1 , j l'' 1 S i , I .) ~ . i r ,4. • - .01 P I . .---- . , . . ... ‘. w . 1 1 .1 .' - , 1,1 .. . . ; t .. I• ‘, , . 1 , t ,,, . 1 - 4 I .~ _ r _ sisters span the tzak question, as rt.r. others. Wie ha ;..pon record, from one Ministe:, thz; a one-pound note was equiya:ent to twenty -of the coin of the realm, while as immense bccittlr two eolo me s• from atCther Minister, said that it 1 4; 'not so ; nay, that it Sholli.l rot be so--1,4 /Qui/L's, Hence it was that no man 'knew th e va l ue of hispre. : If he enquires of 'Parliament they cam tell One party will tell hi m buck , y it is white. It was to remedy thoc- moved for a Committee. It mi g ht be ohicc•ei _ 1.1:11:- % t that he should have-waited until the Right 11 0 , 10 % - "" able Gentleman brought fnt-hid he asked the Right Hon. Gentleman as to lie finer, cial plans, it was answered that he ±:h e Ch anc^ll 1 the Exchequer) would bring forw ar d t h e Iledf-°rmi give his views of the qt;e.tion. Now it was r.t.tll-1i' 2 1, - , lion. Gentleman's.vretes—it was acts that he —lie would be satisfied if the House tve l id into a CornmitteP, and agree to a Rciolution, as 4 done upon the Catholic Question, that they sv er di take such and such things into considerattfin at sof t , future time. The siinisters rniz.ht be induced apply themselves vigorously to their duty, or ti st Pnnce Regent might be induced to h '• c an7e cis O s ccrs, and tht's some good might be the ~1 r, nisters might thank him now for givie, then aa portunity to know who were their dearest friend s . and he should have the consolation also, of shewi nt to the Country those who wei-e its ft lends. lle an,- a ad vlt esnt are tiroyn t ;g h b a pu t ot m whe a er n! thl„ i: rw tl rth r e e suil H t t o :. n oi s ic e nit si e o en u ir ld ‘pvaotro : dn : gel d i. h vote epet. u. s u must say honestly that he wished to see the p t could Act ri l t y that Ministers m t; ‘thvaeremoved. done..pn epeople—not, lobe bottomed mn ' i od t h t 7c o jo u i un t oldi ! eL a bl t ee r e dpbo m ryni o ne : el j a r, i l ea n uc o rf goof 30: s any visionary schemes of Reforic, but by bringi s , t' about such measures of salutary Reform as the Co at . try requirrd. He hoped his opinions would not be misconstrued, It was of the first importance to p ot the Country in a proper financial state, to skew t, the world that we were in a state to support a war. He thanked the Loose for its indulgence, ard cor. cluded by moving, that the House do resolve itce into a Committee, to consider the .:ate of the Na• ti°ll lTord C AST faleen L . EREAGH began by expressing regret, that the Right Honourable Gentleman von!! have prematurely mixed up in his able speech those topics, about which the House was shortly to employ itself at large, and when only they Could meet with a t fficulties he and consideration. Whatever were the di and his colleagues had to encounter in theivoliti. cal proceedings, he would not object to the principk that the Representatives of the people had a right of examination into those measures, He would put it to the generosity of the Right Honourable Gentleman, if ever there had been, since the lamented death of Mr. Petteval, a more eminent period of financial difficulty than that which diitinguished the office of his]Right Honourable Friend'? If he felt that the pw. sent was a question about die Bank, he would have no hesitation in dping his duty, and looking the pea in the face, If the Right Honourable Gentlemaa hid thought that the Prince Regent could nave pre. 'vided himself with better 'Ministers, why did the ihght Honourable Gentleman sleep- upon his post, and post . pone his Aleclaratioi ulna the present periai of the Session, and until the eve of the discusaica the two mo.; important questions that the House could be employed upon ? Would any one disbelieve that the Might Honourable Gentleman took up the q.ie:tion at this moment, but as a measure of Parliamentary tactics, and to embarrass the House? Them was an interval long enough for him, if he had wished to have brought forward the question before.— But he trusted the House would feel it would heal' abusing its, time, were he to follow the Right Hots. Gentleman, and to be dragged into toeless discos. sions..-,Affear; hear.) As soon as the other impor tant discussions were over, he would challenge the Right Hon. Gentleman to bring the conduct of DTr nisters before Parliament in the most comprehensive manner it could be brought. lie would reserve him self to explain the propriety of Ministers intention, whatever might be the issue of their measures—he would explain why the Property and Malt Tax woe given up. The Bank owed to themselves to seek for an inquiry, and Ministers had no other resource than to call in the aid of Parliament ; but the Bank and the Finances had nothing to do with the question now before the House, and when brought forward he would meet the Right Hon. Gentleman without fear. (Hear, hear.) As to the conduct of the Administrk tion he mail say, that be thought the u9uiry as 2 general principle v. as highly useful. He lamente 4 that ill health, or any other impediment should de prive the country of the Right Hon. Gentleman's ta lents, but he would assure.him that he had not seen an attachment to office that he would with to reran it longer than he enjoyed the confidence of the people- No Ministers could long survive the absence of the honest and anxious support of Parliament. He did not mean to enter into Any details, but he shook' stIF that he felt no apprehension at putting himself befe the House. He should be sorry to think of hslbt the House into the persuasion that no danger coed arise from any quarter ; but he knew that the be way to maintain a peace, was to be always preer'. for war. The Noble Lord declared, that the coutO -was now in a situation which gave it the most g!1: . • fying prospect of a long and happy peace. Ho not silently listen to the taunts which the Right nuurable Gentleman had so unsparingly indulged against the principles and views of the Confederz, which had restored the liberties of Europe. He con tell the Right Hon. Gentleman that the Poe: . whose uni ~. had produced the great results ai made the history of the present times inemor.! were not leagued' upon any narrow and illiberal of policy; nor were they cembiped for the of their own aggrandisement and the s ubjugauen ruin of any other Power, but with the landahle efthepevreseenr event that t t s h mls ei_r subjects j % e . c l ts h h the - civili;cd world. The princ , i - Ic: of ailiaace be strengthened and augm e i,t,..l by that nr,s• Christian connection Which hou nd the Lila% Europe in a union of rninual l i t aetit that w; t lin,i g s l o °.' to °.',; be prejudiced by the iiiibet at ar.i unfoun,h which they had hoard that nihr. The I nourable Gentleman had st th.:z that alliance was the vatic:ion .A the pow Ii: slcaiod it. e .111