Star. — London, England, 1807-07-28 00:00:00

, obation of the changes in the military fyftem by his Majefty's late Minifters, the e ffi cacy of had been tried and proved ; and be could not, , give his affent to the Bill now upon the Lich had no other objed, in his opinion, but In the fyftem adopted in the !aft year. He called urn the independent country Gen that Houfe, who in the laft year had given !s for the fyftem now in operation, upon :ft convidion of its propriety, and now fop the experience of its fignaloperation, not to the prefent Bill, fo diametrically oppofite to ich they had already fupported in the face of Lowry, and by which no lets than 22,000 men ived to the public fervice within the laft year, Adhering to which its effeas would daily and improve, and, without doubt, produce to the airy an efficient and difpofable force ; and he was Lonifhed that thole Gentlemen oppofite to him :ye the hardihood to bring forward this Bill, a tingle argument to thew its neceffity, or reafon affigned or to be underftood, but merely 1y the fyftem of his Majelly's late Minifters, TAlt up the molt conftitutional branch of the force. Wi h refpet to the Velunteers, he highell opinion of their zeal and courage, :ould not fee the neceffity of the late appoint- InfpeEting Field Officers, nor that they were ate. They had no authority to call out a Corps to drill, without the permiffi )n of the Anding Officer. Their bufinefs was confined mere infpettion of arms, and to make the re- Gc.vernment. He could not fee why this not be done by the Commanding Officers of inflead of burthening the country with annually for ufelefs officers, merely to create Lge. He highly approved of the retrench made laft year in the Volunteer Syftem, by laying of 300,0001. per annum was made to olio ; but totally difapproving of this Bill, he , move that it be read the fecond time this day months. mel STANLEY alto oppofed the Bill on the grounds. He underftood it was the intention Noble Lord to infert a claufe in the Bill, for aging Subaltern Officers of Militia alto to 1r into the Line, and to allow them rank in ion to the number of their men, whom they .iduce to volunteer with them. Were Gentle mare that fuch a meafure would go to annihi ' Militia force, by depriving it of its bell men, Jft efficient Officers; and thereby difguft the ;lemon who commanded Militia regiments, and 'fined them with fo much care for the defence country ? He fitould oppofe the Bill in every although, if it paired into a law, hi fhould feel luty to at by it. The Noble Lord had talked laufe in this Bill, to prevent Commanding L from tampering with the men : he faw no .ufe ; and hoped there would be no objedion troduce one. But, on the whole, he would much the Noble Lord mould abolith the Militia al .er, than eflablifh s fyftem of this kind. VILLOUGH BY fupported the Bill, and allnd the Military fyftem of his Majefty's late Mini imented that the difpofable force of thecountry, of being dire led to the aid of our brave allies Continent, was frittered away in paltry ceps to Egypt, and elfewhere, as difaftrous as they felefs and impolitic. He was convinced, not trading the depreffion calf on the feelings of the steers by the language of a Right Hon. Gentle -polite to him (Mr. Windham), that on the of danger, and with encouragement like that ad originally experienced, their ranks would ,antly as full and their ardour as zealous as ever. tas ready to admit, however, the neceffity of ig within much narrower bounds the Infpeding I fyftem, as it was at prefent in many inftances .ure. But in the prefent awful critic, he depre :he language of recrimination and heat, fo of late the pradice between parties in that Houle, earneftly recommended unanimity, and the corn bination of all the talents and energies of the country common defence. 1 EUSTON oppofed the Bill, but in a voice fo that the only point on which we could under \im from the gallery was, that the prefent Bill be lets objedionable, if the men entitling from Ida into the line were only to be retained for terms, as by the Bill of the laft year. LOCKHART warmly fupported the Bill,and for refuting the means propofed by the Noble tor fo promptly and efficat.muily recruiting the of the line. It was, he Lad, but a rneaftne of ~.y o rary expedience ; but one more prompt and efficacious than any other which could be deviled. -••Id give to the army of the country men of imp, mod valuable to the fervice ; foldiersfui who had been tried, proved, and were fatisfied ieir fituation in the army, and who only regret. •t they had been hitherto confined to a fervice ted for glory. From fuch men the country expel true valour and gallant atchievements. Paid that this meafure favoured of compulfmn. . militia laws were compulfive, as were alfo ,aws of taxation, but they were indifpenfable for public fecurity, and the good fenfe of the country s in time reconciled to them. But even if a law more generally compulfive was requilite for the fafety, at this crifis, he would be happy in for it ; for it was only by adopting the vigo rdem of the enemy to whom we were oppofed, , e could be a match for him. It was Rated in Bulletin, that the French foldiers laughed at iffacks, for oppofing them with arrows ; would not equally laugh at this country for oppofing ',y meafnres lefi vigorous than their own ? people of England mull, if it fhould be neceffary, rich he hoped it would not, be forced to defend 'lves and their country, and he thought it im they could feel difguti at a meafure neceffary fafety of their country. This was the moment exert all our energies, for the prefervation of every • dear to us agaund the vengeance and rapacity enemy, who, if he lbould conquer us, would is nothing. He told his army at Ulm, that he wreak on this country soo years of vengeance. not raid this without meaning, but he fpeke .cally, for it was jug sou years that this country been the rival of France. He bad fpoken this 'silt and the avarice of his foldiers. He bad •ken his word in any thing cruel with the nal , Ole Continent, and 'was it to be fuppored be break it with this country if the performance , ever came within his power ? It was only by the vi gorous exertion of our heft energies, that our fafety was to be fecured ; and it was better to bear a par tial and temporary evil, than utter and irretrievable ruin. Mr. CALCRAFT was glad he had given way to the Hon. Members who had fpoken before him on the other fide of the Houk ; and, though he did not think with them on the fubje.9 of this Bill, he felt equally anxious for the prefent critical flirtation of the country. If the Milliners fairly made out their cafe of great emergency, he could not oppofe thong meafures ; but if they could thew no fuch cafe. he thought it his duty to foam the fubjeas of this realm the hardfhips that thofe compulfory .nieafures would bring upon them. He was as fenfible as any man, of the zeal and fpirit of the Volunteers, and of the fervices which they might be able to render the country ; but when he was always ready to acknowledge this as warmly as any other Gentleman, he could not patiently fit and hear the Gentlemen on the other fide daily affert, that the fpeeches and meafures of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham) had produced the effect of confiderably diminithing their numbers. He thought it hardly candid or manly for Gentlemen to tepeat thofe affertions conflantly, when they were directly anfwered by the papers which were on the table. In January 1805, the number of volunteers was Come what above 400,000 ; in the month of January tBO6 (before his Right Hon Friend had come into power) they had diminithed to 318,000 ; and, by the latch returns that could be made out, the number of their prefent force is 289,000. So that it appeared that this force, which had decreafed near icia,ooo menin the year before his Friend came into power, had not decreafed above 30,000 in the lan year. It wai not any thing that was Paid or done, by his Right Hon. Friend, which occalioned the decreafe ; but every body knew, from the fira inftitution of the Volunteer eflabliihment, that it was a thing which never could have been expected to remain at precifely the fame pitch. As to the Infpeiting Field Officers, the ob iltion he had to them was, that it was a great and unneceffary expence, as there was, in every diftrid, a complete Staff already ellabliffied, who bad but very little to do, and who had plenty of time to make thole infpettions, and inform the Government of the nate of the Volunteer Corps. Although his Majefty's Mi. sifters might fay, that this expence was a trifle, and the other was a trifle, yet all thofe trifles had toge ther amounted to an expence that was a very &Tinos confideration. There was fomething alfo very fufpi. cious in thefe appointments of Infpeaing Field Of ficers. Inftead of taking them out of the half pay lift, he would venture to fay, that out of about 7o appointed, there were not above t 6 who belonged to the army at all. If it were neceffary to ballot for the purpofe of affording a fupply to the army, it would be better at once to ballot for men to ferve in a more extenfive range than what the prefent mea lure propofed. He confidered that our exiling force was far greater in proportion than what any other nation paella. We had tBz,ooo Regulars, 77,000 Militia, 120,000 men (crying in the Navy, ao,oao in the Artillery, which made a total of aoo 000 men in the regular pay of the country. To thefe were to be added 300,000 Volunteers in this country, which together with Irilh Volunteers, Sea Fencibles, &c. would make a total of nao.ooo men, applicable to the defence of the empire. With fuch a force he could fee no ground for alarm. The Noble Lord had pre tended that it was becaufe his predeceffors had dif perfed the Regular Force of the country, that there. fore it became neceffary to make an extraordinary levy of troops. He fhould however have recollated that if the general reports were true, the prefent Mi. niners were now fending a much larger force out of the country than ever their predeceffors fent. There was now a great difplay of embarkation, of fleets, and armies, but all that the expedition appeared to want was an object, and an officer to command it— (a laugh). The Noble Lordhad tiled fugared words to the Militianntilnow, when he was prepared to under. mine and lap the Militia eftablifhment—for nothing could be more degrading to that eftablifhment, than to thew the officers, that whatever pains they might take in difciplining their regiments, (till they would never be allowed the honour of trying their ftrength againft the enemy, but their men, mutt be handed over to the officers of the line. e confidered that the Noble Lord (Lord Caftlereagh) looked with a jealous and malignant eye upon all that was done by hi; predeceffors ; and that his great objett was to deprive his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Wind. ham) of the merit that was juftly due to him for the plan which he had brought forward laft year. He concluded by expatiating for fume time on the merits of Mr. Windham's plan, which he teemed to confider adequate to the prefent circumtlances of the country. Mr. CRIPPS did not confider that Mr. Wind ham's plan had anfwered thole purpofes which he originally eapetted from it. As to the Volunteers, he could onlf fay, that in a corps of 400, which he comnsigittt , lie never perceived any diminution.— He certainly never law any great neceffity for the Infpeaing Field Officers, and he thought the Gene rals of the different diaries might eafily perform , that duty. Upon the whole, he approved of the prefent Bill. Colonel WOOD did not conceive that it was taking a proper view of the fubjetl, to talk of the prefent war, as if it muff be merely defenfive. We ought not to [land with our arms folded, merely waiting for the attacks of the enemy—we might perhaps difcover points where we could annoy him. He could not allow, that the papers on the table proved, that Mr. Windham's plan had been mare efficacious than the former plans. If it had railed a few hundred men more in the firft fix months of this year, than were railed in the firft fix months of the laft year, it muff alfo be recolletted, that there were a number of boys among them, and that all competition had entirely ceafed, as the ballot had been fufpended even fo far with refpea to the Militia, that their numbers were not kept up. He thought the prefent was no time for Militia Officers to feel much emulation about the comparative appearance of their regiments; the great and univetfal emulation fhould be, who could do mot toferve the country ? (Loud criez of bear, bear.) He was himfelf a Militia Colonel, and he thought nothing would relied more honour on Militia Officers than to Phew that they had iafufed into their men that ' true military fpirit which would make them ready to volunteer for that fervice which would be confidered the moll ufeful to the country. He hoped that their officers would let them no example of fubtetfnge or evafion in their condo& with the Government. if they did, the men would probably mew themfelves apt fchohirs, and perhaps, when the day of trial fbould come, they would reproach them with having prevented them from volunteering in that fervice where their exertions would have been milt effec tual in the defence of their count. y, and of their wives and child, en. Mr. BASTARD raid, that this was certainly not a time to have comas among the Militia regiments about their refpeOive appearance—the queftion now was, whether upon Britifh ground the Militia Regi ments were not as well fitted as any other to fight in the defence of their country? He oeaed to the prefent meafure , becaufe it gave pr eference to the Regiments of the Line, to which he did not think that they were entitled. In the Militia Regiments the fuperior officers had the Rrongen attachment to the foil in which they had a confiderable interea ; in addition to this feeling, there was a perfonal at tachment which conneaed the officers and men in the Militia regiments, of a nature different to what ex- Med in the regular army. Thofe confederations united would,as he was convinced, give to the Militia regiments all the fpirit and enthufiafm that could be wifhed ; and thus would want nothing, if they were but commanded by General Officers, who knew how to lead them on. He had heard tome obfervarions made with refpea to the confißency of the Houfe, in voting againff meafures, which, but a !burr time before, they had fop; tined. All that he could fay about Parliamentary confiflency was, that for fifteen years pall, it appeared to him to be the pi aftice of the Houfe, during that time, to admit or to rejea meafures, precifely as they came from Gentlemen in power, or Gentlemen out of power.—(Heor, hear !) He hoped the Houfe would net be permi-ted to feparate, this year, until many other meafures, befides thofe military" plans, (horrid be fubmitted to their confideration. If the re- ports that were in the different papers were founded, it would be a molt ferious confideration how the commerce of the country could be fupported, or how its finances could be kept up, fo as to meet the necef fary expences, without impofing new and oppreflive taxes upon a nation already too much burdened.— The excufe for drafting the Militia into the Line was, that they would be under more experienced officers ; and yet, as their officers were alto allowed to volunteer with them, it would be hard to point out how the very fame officers could be better or more experienced when they obtained commiffions in the line than they were before ? He could not conceive but that it would be poflible to find out other modes of inct eating the regular army, with out deflroying the Militia. He conceived that it was very degrading to the fpitit of the Militia Officers to be told that, notwithfianding the pains they bad taken to learn their profeffion, they could be of no ufe to their country by leading against the enemy the regiment that they had trained, but that all thefe men muff be taken from them, to be given to the Regulars. This was not the way that Bonaparte took. He endeavoured by all means to raife the 10- rit of every part of his force. In osie of his tali Bulletins, he told a Rory about a drummer with his drum flick defeating a Coffack with his (pear. He certainly would not think of difcouraging men as brave as our Militia. Mr. FULLER differed from the Hon. Gentle- man who had lair fpoken ; he confidered that the praftice which prevailed of late years, of making the Militia nearly the fame as regular regiments, hurt confiderably the recruiting for the regular army, by caufing a competition. When the Militia was on the original plan, tailed for only three years, and ferving principally in their own counties, then the balloted men often ferved, and acquired military I a bits, which induced them afterwards to enter into the regular army ; but when that old prattice was changed, and they were marched out of their coun ties, and kept on the footing of regu!ar regiments, then the men who were balloted no longer fetved,but obtained fuhflitutes. at large bounties, which injured materially the Regular Army, by the competition which it gave rife to. Lord BINNING, in confidering the defenfive force of the empire, thought that the Regular Army ought to be placed at the head of that defenfive force. He fupported the prefent plan, as adding con fiderably to that force, and as giving the Govern ment the power of fending, if neceffary, a confider able force to Ireland. Mr. WHITBREAD Paid, that he felt very deli , rous of expreffing his fentiments upon the prefent m eal-lon. As this was the nage of the Bill in which it was the cuflom to difcufs the principle of it, he fbould now declare that he had great and fundamental objellions to the principle of the Bill. In order that he &void concur in the Bill, there were two things which it would be previouily neceffary to eflablifh— IR, that there does exit tom: emergency which calls for new meafures ; and fecondly, that this meafure is belt calculated to meet that emergency. It appeared to him extraordinary, that after a war of fourteen years, the Houfe fbould be again and again called upon to confider what ought to be the defenfive fyflem of the country. He thought that it was ra. ther degrading to Parliament and derogatory to the great talents of the many fucceffive Minniers that had been feen in that Houle from 1793 to 1807, that they had never yet flruck out a plan for the permanent defence of the country by land. He agreed mol perfealy with his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Wind. ham), that molt of thole Minillers had never turned their attention ferioufly to maturing a fyftem for the permanent fupply of the army, and defence of the country , --but that year after year they contented themfelves with bringing forward freth expeditors, to meet what they called emergencies. This was the eourfe that had been purfued by a man, certainly of great talents (Mr. Pitt). The fcheme that was brought for ward by him in . one year, was Cure to be abandoned in a year or two afterwards. The fecond . time that he came into power, he brought forward the Additional Force Ad, as a new meafure, upon the fuccefs of which he made himfelf refpanfible in a peculiar degree, as it a as upon his profelEons pf the good that was to refult from it, that he came again into power. When he then brought forward a plan different from all his former ones, it was a contains that his former expedients hid not rucetedid in eaa blifhing a permanent fyftem of defence. He. there fore propofed the Additional Force Atit as it perma nent fyftem ; but, on 'trial, it was. fogad tnially. in. phis fttoiivellsco; 7: competent to produce the effect that was etpefird from it. What Mr. Pitt then called an emergency was, however, very different from the prefent fitua• tion of affairs. The Emperor of France was then at Boulogne, with his army, and we were told that we however. mull expea invalion every week, every day, and every hour. He had heard this night, as he had upon (or mer occafions, a con fi derable degree . uf invec, live againfl the Defpot and Tyrant of France, and oi t e h h e y e a l l i r e l . si o ti f o t n h . ofe H w e ho wo d u ca ld it not , howeve r invet. He was fore that " big words did not win bat. " and therefore lie did not think highly of that &Ain which was often called energetic language_ he thought the time was come when we flsauld be prepared for energetic deeds—(Hear, bear 1) —The prefent Adminiftration had been three or four m ont h : in power, and if they really that& the Rate of the army to have been fo bad, they fhauld not have let fo much time elapfe without bringing forward their remedy. They fhould not have diffolved tht Parliament without find preparing what appeared ft them neceffary for the permanent fecurity of thi State. If the force we had was well adminiftered, ho conceived that it was adequate to the defence of thi country. If it were not well adminiftered, he did no , look for fafety merely in increafing the number of on troops, for numbers would be often found a clog in Read of a fervice, if they were not adminiftered a they ought to be. By the papers upon the table, i . appears, that there were t68,0c0 men, regulars ani militia, independent of the Volunteers, which wcrenco applicable to the defence of the country. If with fuc a force, in conjunction with our navy, we could nc put the country in a (late of fafety, he did not knot what amount of force c:nsld be confidered fufficien , The Noble Lord fpnke of the neceffity of putting large force into the hands of Government, for the pu poles of attack. He could not but feel forne w h i apprehenfive of the conNuences of any attack whin his Majefty's prefent Minillers thould dire& As fi the colonial war, he feared that it had been curie too far both in the prefent war and in the forme one. If we were to chufe our paints of attack, v ought to fele& thole from which our troops cool b e e l fily withdrawn, if it were neceffary to conce trate them. As to the great advantage of having large force to fend to Ireland, if neceffary, he coul not feel the Rrength of that argument at a time th Minifters thought it fate to withdraw a confiderabl number of troops from Ireland for tome other Expe dition. If they conceived Ireland to be really i ' great danger, they would not tamper with it as the 'did at preterit. He could not agree that there wi any prefent emergency, and, notwithflanding tl celerity of Bonaparte's movements, it would tai him a certain time (fuppofe nine or twelve month to draw his army down to the oppofite coaft in menacing attitude. As to the expedient that w pradifed of drafting Militiamen into the Line for t Expedition to Holland, he had himfeif been witni in Kent of the Rate of drunkennefs, profligacy, a: diforder that was allowed, to induce them to vole leer ; and he had heard it liated by feveral Office: that this &oft indulgence was fo deftrudive to mi tary difcipline, that n would take nine months to pi them in a flare fit to embark again for any other e 1 pedition. As to theft compulfory meafures, as the have been called, they were, in point of fad, nothin but a tax laid upon individuals molt unequally. Th balloted per fun feldom or ever (erred, and the tuba effect of the compulfion was to lay a certain to upon the individual upon whom the ballot fell. if was necelfary to have recourfe to confcription, thould be propofed at once in a dire& and manly wa but to compare this unequal mode of tazingiodividu: to the French confcription, appeared to him high abfutd. As to the Army of Referve, he did not this more highly of it now than he did when it was fii propofed. Although he oppofed it when it was pr poled, yet after it was carried into a law, he did wh was in his power to carry it into execution. h however, had in many intlaaces witnetl'ed the incs culable hardlhips which thole individuals had C rained on whom the ballot fell. This army of refers however, was but a temporary expedient. It expire by the effects of its own energy, when no more m could be railed by it. Some Gentlemen had raid, tli it was a conipleat meafirre inits commencement; th it was nrojor from its infancy : if In, it grew min with time, and loon reached its minimum. The di of the meafure then was, that it railed a confiderab body of men for an immediate urgency, but aft they had been railed, the recruiting fervice was a folutely at a (land for a confiderable time, as tl country was quite exhaufled. After all thole ter prat" , expedients, his Right Hon. Friend (M Windham) had brought forward a plan which w founded or, the pri i nciplesof human nature, and 'WI could not but produce a c orre fp on di ng eke. 7 plan had been but a Thor t time in operation, and y already it had been proved to be fuperior to all tl other modes of recruiting formerly pradifed. It h: been fuppofed by the enemies of this plan, that c foldier would always leave his fervice at the end the feven years. This, however, would not only contrary to his obvious intereft, but it would. be co trary to the univerfal experience of the dirpohtion men after they have acquired military habits. Tlio who wifhed to deny the efficacy of his Right Ho I Friend's plan, were apt to fay," gee how many bo you have among your recruits." He could call retort that, by Paying, " See how many old and ui derfized men you have among your recruits levied h the Addi t i ona l F orce Ad." He would even judj from the number of boys that had entered, that II Al had fucceeded, as it feemed to thew that parer were not at prefent fo averfe, as they had been, I letting thei r c hil c Wi n go into the army. In fpeakin of the Volunteers, he wou!d by no means join tl very exaggerated compliments that had been pa them by Tome men, who raid that the country migl rely upon them alone, for the defence of the countr This was a dangerous delufion to encourage. If th doerine were to be admitted, then fuppofing the v Iv:veers fhould decreafe in number, any man svi fhould fay fo would be Itigmatifed as a perfon wan ing to difcourage the volunteers. He could not al prove of thole inflated Ratements which Mr. Fit and other Miniflers, had been in the habit of makinj when they had any point to carry. He thougl there was no ufe of inveighing bitterly againfl of enemy ; it was fufficient to know that he was of enemy, and to prepare to meet him. tie, no doub would make every prepqation for our annoyance.- Wg mull ma 4 equal preparation for our defence.. ims..over_seasisame T. approbation of the cl made by his Majeßy's which had been tried a therefore, give his one table, which had no of to overturn the fc Rem therefore called up , n tlemen of that Houfe, their votes for the fy the fullell convidlion t ported by the experienc vote for the prefent Bi 1 that which they had a their country, and by were derived to the pu and by adhering to wl hourly improve, and, country an efficient ar allonifhed that thole could have the hardih without a tingle argi I any reafon affigned of to deftroy the fyllem and to break up the n national force. Wi I , bad the higheß opini but he could not fee t ment of Infpeeing Fi of any ufe. They h fingle Corps to drill f Commanding Officer i to the mere inipettioi turns to ac.vernmen could not be done I Ditiriels, inflead of 4a,0001. annually for patronage. He hig meats made laft yea which a laying of 3o the public ; but tote . 1 Mould move that it E three months. Colonel STANLI , 1 fame grounds. He of the Noble Lord tt encouraging Subalt • volunteer into the L t proportion to the nu : I could induce to volu men aware that fuel late the Militia force and mot! efficient C Gentlemen who con had trained them wi of their country ? H Rage, although, if it it his duty to ad by . of a claufe in this Officers from tampe !) , loch claufe ; and hoi to introduce one. Bu I rather the Noble 1.4 ; ) together, than eflabl 1 f Mr.WILLOUGH ing to the Military f i. Bets, lamented that t inßead of being dire on the Continent, w , ditions to Egypt, an were ufelefs and imp 1 i withftanding the del Volunteers by the la man oppofite to hill firft call of danger, a t they had originally be inftantly as full an He was ready to ; limiting within mac] Officers fy Rem, ass a finecure. But in I, I cared the longing , much of late the prat and earneilly recom bination of all the to 1 for our common del Lord EUSTON low, that the only p Rand him from the i would be lets objefl the militia into the I limited terms, as by i Mr. LOC IHA R was not for refuting Lord, for fo prompt army of the line. 1 I temporary expedien efficacious than and It would give to th that Ramp, moil va gentrir, who had heel with their fituation i ted that they had b fo limited for glory i had to coped true v , . It was Paid that this i ll All the militia laws the laws of taxation the public fecurity, t i was in time reconcil 'i fill more generally I 1 public fafety, at th voting for it ; for ii roue fyllem of the e 1 r ' 1 that we could be a I a late Bulletin, tha the th Coffack eynot s, for p equally o lal i them by meafnres The people of Engli which he hoped it themfelves and thei 1 1 i puffible they could to thelafety of their : I to exert all our enet i i thing dear to us agi of an enemy, who, le .ve us nothing. / I would wreak on thu He had not Paid thi hiftrrically, for it sat had been the rival c to the lull and the i not broken his word firms on the Confine would break it with ) ,t ! i 1 4 li 1 : 1. .t.