Star. — London, England, 1809-02-25 00:00:00

~ _. 14 , -- - 1 - • • a' and how far their power of co-operation really ex tended. Ministers ought not to have employed young men, who are naturally inclined to be volatile and heedless, but such as were of most experience, and not liable to be led away by false or doubtful ills pearances—men who could form a sound judgment as to the principles and inclinations of those who filled the first rank, and were held in the highest estimation in that country—men who could discern the particu lar bent and bias of the minds of the middle class of society there, that great and binding link between those of the higher and the lower rank, and how far they were ready and willing to undergo all the miseries, and to suffer the various and manifold privations they were likely to suffer by entering into the arduous con flict. He did not mean to speak disrespectfully of the Spaniards, but they did not appear to him to be pos sessed of that warmth and enthusiasm of character which was so necessary to ensure success. In the war of the Succession, the first people in the country shewed no public spirit or energy whatever, but were constantly fluctuating between their adherence to Charles and Philip. In the present state of the coun try, there did not seem to be that sublime patriotism, that animated enthusiasm and energetic principle, which were necessary to resist the 'lower of France. It was necessary to know if the Spanish people were sensible of the defects of their former Government — whether they knew and understood the miseries into which they were certainly to be plunged, and the pri vations to which they must inevitably submit, before they could expect even a prospect of success. Unless they were fully sensible of all these particulars, and animated with spirit and patriotism enough to enable them to bear such sufferings with patience and perse verance, it was in vain for any man to suppose the contest could be carried on with any prospect or chance of success to Spain. He did not mean to say it was necessary for Ministers to interfere or dictate to Spain; but if they did not by some means or other obtain the best possible information on those points, vain indeed must be their interference, and futile theirhopes of suc cess. What would have been the situation of England, if she had suffered herself to .be held in the trammels of a superstitious Lid degraded priesthood ? What would it have been, if she had patiently endured the slavery and oppression of the feudal system, and not have been animated to obtain laws, which, instead of oppression, secured property, liberty, and life, to every individual, and thereby led to that Constitu tion, which formed the real glory, grandeur, and stability of her power ?—What information his Ma jesty's Ministers had received on the points he had mentioned, he was altogether ignorant of ; but it was a notorious fact, that from the commencement to the end of the contest, the people knew less than ever they didof any war in which this countryhad beenengageol. We had infinitely more intelligence of passing events when the Emperor of Francewas fighting against RUE.. sia on the banks of the Vistula, than at a time when our armies were acting in Spain, and our fleets inpossession of, and lining the whole of the coasts, both of that coun try and of France. Ministers ought, however, to have known how far the Spaniards were inclined to go,before they ventured to send in the face of the most powerful and best disciplined army in Europe, that compara tively small proportion of our army, which they placed under the command of Sir John Moore. The first step which was taken was the expedition under the command of Sir Arthur Wellesley on the 15th July. The gallant General went to Gallicia, 'but the Junta told him they did not want men, and advised him to go to Portugal. When the gallant General went to Por tugal, by the direction of the Noble Lord, the fate of Spain was decided—for it was not possible to succour effectually Spain till that campaign was concluded. — On the 30th of August that event took place, and he desired to know why so long a time had elapsed, be tween that and the 16th of October, the day on which Sir John Moore set out for Spain. The gallant Ge neral had told the House the other night, that an English army was, in his opii,ion, necessary in Spain, and that in the heart of the country; and yet, though the campaign in Portugal ended the 30th of August, Sir John Moore did not set out for Spain till the 16th of October. On the 13th of October, the army under Sir David Baird landed at Corunna, and it was not till the 27th of that month that it was disembarked. On the 27th of September, the Central or Supreme Junta, were installed at Madrid, and yet it was ne cessary to wait till the 27th of October, to get the consent of that Junta to their landing. There should have been some person there to have informed Sir David Baird, whether he would be allowed to land his men by those, to whose assistance they were sent ; but it appeared there was not any body from this country fir any such purpose, till the 7th of No vember, that Mr. Frere arrived at Madrid. He did not mean to depreciate the talents of Mr. Frere, but he was not in his (Mr. Ponsonby's) opinion, a proper man for that purpose. The most proper would have been a military man—the state of Spain was or ought to be wholly military, and none but a military man was equal to the situation of Mr. Frere. On the 14th of November General Moore reached Salamanca. — He wished the House to observe, how the French were employed all this time ? After the surrender of Dupont, the whole remnant of the French army in Spain were concentrated in Navarre. Bonaparte had not a force that could face the Spaniards, and was therefore under the necessity of drawing off the forces which had been employed in the Prussian and Polish war. He had no maritime assistance, but was compelled to forward them by forced marches, The Emperor of France went to Erfurth, settled matters with the Emperor of Russia, retprned to France, communicated his intentions to the Senate, and on the sth day of November, nine days before Sir John Moore reached Salamanca, he arrived at Bayonne, and put himself at the head of those forces which had arrived from the banks of the Vistula. — He requested to know why there had been so much delay on our side, opposed to the celerity and energy on that of our enemy ? It was not in the power of this country to furnish a great military force, and there fore it was necessary that force should be kept in a body, and not broken into fragments, which render ed it incapable of acting with effect. He desired therefore to know why it was that Sir David Baird and Sir John Moore delayed so long to join their for ces ? What was the consequence ? The gallant Ge wml had told t le House that he considered an Engidt al my wasnecessary,toholdtogether the Spanish forces, and to reap the advantages which might retult from a co-operation with them. He must have communi cated this opinion to Ministers, and they must know port was brought up on Wednesday se'nnight, the Right Hon. Gentleman intended to come forward with say specific proceedings on it ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he did not conceive he had any thing to do with the business in the way the Right Honourable Gen tleman had mentioned. He conceived it to be in the hands of the Honourable Gentleman who brought forward the accusation, and he did not think it would be proper for him to interfere in it, as he naturally supposed the Honourable Gentleman, whom he did not then see in his place, would bring forward some proceeding or other on it. Lord FOLKSTONE said he did not rise to object to any thing which had been said by the last speaker, but thought he had `reason to complain of the Right Honourable Gentleman below him (Mr. Tierney), as, his question seemed to. insinuate that his Honourable Friend had abandoned the business, and he wished the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite to him to take it up. His Honourable Friend had, however, expressed his readiness to go on with the matter even on the day that had been first appointed, though he (Lord Folkstone) thought it too early a one. The Right Honourable Gentleman might, therefore, rest satisfied that on Wednesday se'nnight the matter would be taken up by his Honourable Friend, who had left the House, not supposing any thing Ivould be said on the subject that night. Mr. TIERNEY disclaimed any intention of even a wish to take the business out of the hands of the Ho nourable Gentleman who brought forward the accu sation, and had only asked the question to satisfy himself,whether on that night any proceeding was to take place on bringing up the Report ? coN oci-r OF .111 r: watt IN SPAIN. Mr. G. PONSONBY said he rose to submit to the House an inquiry on a subject as highly important to the honour, fame, and interests of this country as any which had ever claimed their attention. If he had not given any notice on the subject, the very expres sions he had used would have presented to the mind of every one who heard hint that he alluded to the conduct of the campaign in Spain. When the insur rections at Madrid and other places in Spain were first made known to this country, the circumstances pf the world were such as made it the most important crisis for those who possessed his Majesty's confidence that could well be imagined. All the Powers of the Continent of Europe were prostrate at the feet of the Conqueror of its destinies, and either from the weak nests or the versatility of their Councils, had, one after another, succumbed and submitted to the power and aggrandizement of the Emperor of France. England alone was found to be the only power capable of any further resistance to the gigantic power of France. The House of Austria had, against the advice of her wisest and most prudent counsellors, plunged headlong into the third coalition against France, and the fatal consequences which followed had reduced her to a state of absolute weakness. — Whether seduced by the power of France, or wearied with her former alliances, Russia had not only ceased to be the enemy, but had suffered herself to be drawn into a close alliance with the Eniperor of France. Thus stood the world_; and when those who had so long been her enemies had at length become her vas: sals or allies, there unexpectedly arose an opposition to the arms of France, in a country which had not only been in strict alliance, but even in a state of the most abject dependence to her power. Spain, so lately her vassal, had risen in insurrection against her oppressive mandates, and had applied to this coun try for assistance, just before the close of the last Ses,;:on of Parliament ; but it was not in the power of his Majesty's Ministers then to lay before the House any information on the subject. The whole management of this delicate and important affair had been left entirely to Ministers. Parliament had no power to interfere or to take any share in it, the Session being at its close. Ministers had, how ever, every thing which Parliament could bestow, to enable them to act with spirit and effect. They were granted without hesitation every guinea they could ask ; they had a vote of credit to the utmost extent of their wishes. There was but one mind, one heart, and one undivided spirit, among all the people of the Empii e. No Ministers before them ever experienced such unexampled unanimity in the nation, to forward and promote the success of every measure they might think proper or requisite to adopt, for the assistance' of the Spaniards ; apt a man who expressed a wish but of effecting the liberty of Spain. Standing on that eminence from which Ministers could view the prospects that were shut to all other eyes, it was their pai,titiotiut duty, before they engaged the strength, power, and credit of this country in that project— before they employed its wealth in any expeditions, either by land or sea—it was their duty to make them ;elves well acquainted with the real situation of Spain. 1 he first nieasure they ought to have adopted was to have sent 0 that country men of the most eminent talents, both in military and civil affairs—men who were able to lead on and conduct with effect the Spa nish It was their duty to have selected such men as were likely, by the superiority of their talents, so to take advantage of circumstances which might be found favourable, as to break down the•overgrown and all-grasping power of France, and by that means to afford an opportunity to the other Powers of Eu rope to take the first cccasion that offered of deliver ing themselves from the degraded state of vassalage alid oppression in which they were at present placed. He did not know themen who bad been sent more than from public report, but he could not perceive among their names, any one who was remarkable either for wisdom or knowledge. They were all young men, and, as such, he feared, but little capable of form ing a true and sound judgment, either of the nature and situation of the country, or of what was passing in it. Ministers stood responsible in a double capacity ; they were bound to adopt such measures as should most effectually conduce not only to the means of succes to Spain, but also of defence to England, and to consider that they had to administer the affairs of that country which could alone resist France ; and it behoved them most especially to see that they did not neglect the de fence of this country, in attending t. the assistance of Spain. To judge of the true state of Spain, it requ i re d men of the first-rate abilities. It was easy to sae, however great our power at sea, England the event of the contest. It alone could not stand a w n n ecestizy to ascertain the true feelings 044 spirit of t he spool) people ' what was their Wigs, full well, the . sooner this was done the better; yet, i to incapacity." Mr. Pensonby concluded by an n ".„ fi smite to tell t the armies of Rornana and Blake that the House should institute an inquiry into !: a were overthrown at Espinosa and Reynosa beforelSir causes, consequences, and events of the Spanish ern. li John Moore arrived in Spain. On the 10th of No- pain. b vember one Spanish army was destroyed ;on the Lord CAS'T e LEREAGH trusted the House wo•Il i a c , ): : 12th of November another, and on the 14th of the do him the j ustice to believe he had no wish to - e same month, the English army arrived in Spain. Of teal any thing relating to the late campaign, ;••I,t v what - Use was it to the Spanish armies ? Was it to pointed out the impromety of the Hon. Gentleman's 1 unite with them after they were annihilated ? What bringing forward this subject before he had an oppn'. o then was the state of the two . English armies ? Was tunity of possessing himself of that information which s Sir David Baird enabled to form a junction with the will soon be laid before the House, and which alp:;,. c other under Sir John Moore ?So far from it, he had could enable him to decide on the conduct cf Mi:. c not even money enough to enable him to effect that sters. The melancholy events formed no basis op t purpose. It might be allowed, that there were acci- which he could ground a charge against the Braid, 1 dents that might have prevented him ;he might, Government, if the forces bf England, which acted • from the non-arrival of a transport with part of his but as auxiliaries, did not arrive on the scene of actior troops, or with necessary artillery or ammunition, till the armies of Spain were subdued. The measi:7c , have been delayed ; but who could suppose t hat Mi. they had taken with respect to the internal regulatim , nisters would have sent him out with an army with- iof Spain, as they were blended with no selfish view,. out a few casks of money, to enable him to provide a be doubted not would meet the approbation el I . rc necessaries for transporting his army from one place country. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken r al ,,i . to another ? So it was, however : and Sir David on theyropriety of acting with promptness and &c:. Baird was obliged to apply to and depend on the sion, yet he had, while censuring them for I: .i7:g credit of private individuals. Afterwards the armies slow in sending assistance, compla'r.ed of the r t of Leon and Estramadura were successively annihi- having informed themselves of many particularswh c h laced, without giving the French army, as Bonaparte could only be acquired by an investigation, which, himself expresses it, any farther trouble than that of ' from its nature, must necessarily occupy a considera. a few marches against them. On the 15th of De- ble portion of time. The Honourable Gentleman had cember Madrid capitulated. In all that time not a stated that he had been informed by persons, wh0 , .2 single British soldier had appeared in action in Spain. opinions he could place much confidence in, that there The gallant General had told us, that celerity of , never was a prospect of ultimate success. He thought movement and quickness in dispatch were necessary' there was a great probability of success, from o le to ensure the success of our army. Shall we not general impulse which impelled the different pre. then ask why these delays took place ? Do not these vinces to rise, and from the brilliant successes which things demand inquiry ? In this situation Sir John attended many of their operations. The reflectin Moore found himself in the month of December, and cast by, the Honourable Member on the Spanish na both he and Sir David Baird had determined to re- ' tional character, he thought harshly expressed in the treat, as they found it would be impossible to con- hour of her misfortunes. His Lordship vindicated tend with the immense armies opposed to them ; and the conduct of Spain, and gave a variety of in. fortunate indeed it would have been if that determi- ' stances of their valour. In particular, he alluded to nation had been pursued. But the opinion of these ' the bravery displayed at Saragossa and Valencia._ Commanders was again changed—and why ?—ls it In fact, the Spanish armies wanted nothing to render not proper to know why they did not retreat, as at their victories as decisive as they were glorious, but first intended ? was it in consequence of orders from 'an adequate proportion of cavalry. The Right Ho home t or was it from the officious interference of I nourable Mover has said, that we should derive our those not at home ? He had heard that Mr. Frere , own information from the report of proper officers, had requested Sir John Moore to advance, with an ' sent for the purpcse of ascertaining the temper and assurance that the Spaniards would be able to co- disposition of the Spanish people. Put the Noble operate powerfully with him. Which of these ac- Lord would inform him that circutostaoce, in his counts was true, he did not know ; but our ignorance opinion, was far superior to report. The battle of was a greater reason for inquiry. On the 21st of I Baylen alone evinced their temper ; the circumstance December Sir John Moore arrived at Sahajun, and of their having an army of one hundred thousand on the 22d the Emperor of France set out with a men on the left bank of the Ebro, was sufficient LC• great army to attack him. On the 24th of Decem- ! monstration of their determined resolution to oppose ber General Moore was again obliged to retreat, for i the enemy with vigour and perseverance. Thus, it had he remained four-and-twenty hours longer in that ' would appear manifest that Ministers had a prima position, it is more than probable that not a man of fade reason for falling in with the invitation of the our army would have escaped. He had heard this, Spanish people desiring our co-operation in the con he said, from officers who were there, and who bad test. Having gone thus far, the Noble Loid would assured him, that if General Moore had engaged now discuss the question of such invitation being com- Soult's'army, he could not have succeeded. Under plied with in the most advantageous manner, and at these inauspicious circumstances, we had lost all our ; the shortest notice. He was apprised that there ex. magazines, all our ammunition, above 5000 horses,listed two extreme opinions on this head, but was re and- he feared more than the gallant General lost I solved not to give them any serious consideration, when he said, not above four or five thousand men— convinced as he must feel that the middle course was All these had been lost without any possibility of Iby much the safest to pur. de. It had been contended avoiding it. Is it not known that retreat was resol- I for, that Spain, in herself, possessed a ll the re q uisite ved on before the French force arrived' Is it not I elements of defence, and that we should not have in also known that it corminenced only after its arrival ? i terfered by our too hasty supply of soldiers, &c. That This demanded therefore to be accounted for. It was , such a course should be the policy of Great Britain, not only the loss which Britain had sustainedthat wasithe Noble Lord absolutely denied. By acting in this to be lamented, but the effect it must inevitably have on I manner, we should be stripped of 'our honour. The all the Powers of the Continent, for though our ar- : narrowness of our colonial views, and our nat ional mies had uniformly proved their bravery, England's egotism, had in many instances made us the objects glory as a military power was lost and gone. If ever iof aversion among the other European Powers. And we should again ask them to co-operate with us, they if ever an occasion presented itself for the removal would say—No—your troops are brave, and your 1 of objections against our selfish p olic y , the affair of ' Generals skilful, but there is a secret something which I Spain was certainly one. He would now proceed to paralyzes all your efforts, and causes them continually notice the other extreme, namely, that there should to fail. When you were allies in Germany and in .be no medium between a considerable exertion, and Holland, there were many reasons why your efforts an absolute total one ; in a word, that we shottld were not available, but after what has passed in Spain, have applied the whole regular force of the country to we can never more rely on that assistance as a military the object we had in contemplation. The Noble power. As to the plan of the campaign, he did not i l Lord would only say, that this so far carried con pretend to know it, but the persons say the north was , victiun of its impropriety, as that it recommended the most proper, and to land at St. Andero. The ' the deprivation of national defence. He then pro- Noble Lord had said this was a Pyrenean campaign, I ceeded to notice the impossibility of reconciling the and that there was not only four passes, but forty. If ' application of pecuniary resources to such an ex this was the case, why did the Noble Lord send an tent as would be required, for the magnitude army into Spain ? If the Spaniards could not encoun- 'of such exertions. As to the question of those exer ter an army of 40,000 men, how could he imagine an I tions which we had made, being seconded with suffi- English and Spanish army could beat 400,000 or ! dent force and rapidity, he would observe, first as to 500,000 men, or all that Bonaparte could afford to I the adequacy of the force, that (exclusive of the send thither. He did not know what plan was the ! 10,000 Spaniards, we had released from Baltic con best, but he had understood from all military men' finement, and who of course must be fairly included with whom be had conversed, that from the corn- lin the contingent of men wh:ch we supplied to Spain); mencement of the business, the idea of its terminating ! we had furnished them with an army cf 15,000 successfully was was futile, absurd, and impossible. It , tish troops, without taking into calculation the force would be necessary, and only just for the country to which w .o, directed to proceed from the Mediterranean know why a contest entered into with the heart and 'to assist the coast of Catalonia. That project failed hope of all, and commencing in the brightest prol-- in consequence of the impossibility to produce such a pects, had thus closed in darkness and disappointment : special distributir - ,n of force. The Noble Lord would — w hy as fi n e an army as ever entered the field should '. then beg leave to inquire if such were the case, who be wantonly exposed to perils which must carry ruin ; ther they had or not received proper directions as to to them, and misfortune to England. He had heard' destination. Here he said that he would set one an opinion advanced, which he by no means mention- against the other, the rival propositions of St. Andero ed as his own, that our troops might have been em-1 and the Pyrenees, as-put forw ird by Gentlemen on ployed with effect, as garrisons to certain seaport I the opposite side—(licar, hear !). The Noble Lord towns on the coast of Spain. This was, however, an ! begged leave to represent, that the port of St.Andera opinion which he would not entertain ; there seemed , was so limited and exposed, as to be inadequate ta to be a jealousy on the part of the Spaniards, as at • the purposes of debarkation. Besides its being en-- Cadiz, and at Ferrol; and he had even heard (what bairassed by Romana's troops, the Right Hon. Gc.:• he would believe true, unless contradicted) that our :, tl•.-.man should consider the danger to which the fo:ct., force, which had gone from Lisbon to Cadiz, would : debarked there would be exposed, from the attack ?; not be allowed to enter the harbour. " All I ask (said i 40 or 50,000 of the enemy who were stationed in t' Mr. Ponsonby) is, that this House should institute an ' vicinity of Vittoria. There would be no possib;l* inquiry into the causes which led Ministers so to dis- I of supplying the necessary provisions to t he arrn,,:: pose of the British force as to leave a doubt upon the , from the great exposure of the port, which rendereL: ,11. public mind, whether the fortunes of Spain can ever ' communication at certain periods uncertain, it :;' , L be retrieved. This is a duty which we owe to the i impracticable. As to any objections regarding del,;F brave soldiers who have borne with patience their un- in the matter, he would observe, that in his first 1,2 t. paralleled distresses—soldiers such as no nation on the' ter to the gallant General near him (Sir A. Wel;c:: earth could have sent to battle but ourselves—soldiersl ley ), he directed him to open a communication V...:'' who have elevated the name of the country—in the I the Government of Spain, and particularly with C contemplation of whose glory there is not a peasant . tanos. He received a' let:ee (not till after the on. on the wild mountains of Scotland, or the bleak bogs' vention of Cintra), stating, that such a conespca. of Ireland, who does not feel himself raised with a I dente had been opened, and in consequence el- th° superior consciousness. I conjure you then to this act Spanish people having constituted a regular gov:. l of duty by the glory of your own power ; by the re - ! m ent, Lord W. Bentinck was sent from Portugal,: putation of your country ; by every thing precious to the 14th of September, to the Central Junta, wii!c' you as brave and free men; by the gratitude you , was constituted at Aranjuez on the 9 nil of t=:' sitzd owe those heroes, who, falling for you at Corunna, I month. On the 2d September, the Noble Lo; 0 i 5.5 11 have left their honoured memories to be preserved orders, to General Dalrymple to move furv.%trd : 1 inviolate ; and.hy your respect for those who are yet the north of Spain ; and sent instructions to S ir j ' ! " left to the. country,nrt whom her future reliance is vid Baird, at Cork, to proceed to Falmouth wit -L -' t dependant, and who, I bust, will never be sacrificed delay. 4 The reason which pia Noble Lord as; g ; i WI he fe