Star. — London, England, 1819-11-30 00:00:00

re .etent H y : . e countr! •,.s l eer h e we , J in the PI Lt of J t)atihle Ito MC •iple C Indy, :tjon h! age l P t Hoe p ore s titutii ted. . 'lO6Ol •ts of Gran n ece found i ounty ,y iaU that pa bo ..e limn ,J also cati eontim oontry, NoSI whi a state ! l ad be e r uge 4, alth si man slept] stron rtion enibled use di! °Pantry, Acts here. res 111 Tum raining give .e tou lisdem ess, tt tread to leadi itary . de! earn tins • Vc2 • ant say, ,poss 'as it sent s agitati rue lo out, I 2, Cal i'tep Then Pens: sure i ten ft_ar he 5 ; tee .the #it 111 • SEC t air G! s ii a a a a a a a I a a r$ _ Meetings were frequently assembled. In order to counteract such a practice, it was hie intention to propose to the House, that a notice of six days, pre vious to any Meeting, should be given to a Magis trate, who, within two days from the notice, might alter the tune and place of the Meeting, provided the time did not exceed the period originally fixed, by more than four days. It was also intended to strip these Meetings of their warlike appearance; and that none should be allowed to go in military array, so as to intimidate the peaceful subjects of the King. It was proposed to introduce a clause of that nature into the Bill to be brought into the House, which would be only declaratory of the existing Law. Such a Clause was also to be made applicable to County Meetings, some of which had assumed all the ap pearance of Radical Reform. It was also proposed to introduce a Clause against the appearance of Fe males at those Meetings—a practice unheard of till the French Revolution, when they were poured in from the mar kets and the brothels. All who should 'come armed to any such Meeting, would be liable 'to a misdemeanour, by the Bill proposed to he 'brought in; and power would be given to the Ma gistrates to apprehend those who should so offend. In the case of strangers crowding to the -Meeting, the Magistrate might be allowed to order them to withdraw ; and ill the event of the order not being obeyed, he might proclaim the Meeting Illegal.— Such disobedience, however, was not to be made a capital but a clergyable felony—(Load cries of Hear, hear,, from the Opposition Benches). A quarter of an kpur was to be allowed for strangers to withdraw, and hitlf an hour for the Meeing to disperse. On the sub . .; ject of training in the night, such a practice was ob- Viously contrary to all the principles of the Consti tution. But it was proposed to make a distinction betwixt the party drilling and the party drilled ; the former it was proposed tomake a transportable offence, and the latter to be subject to fine and im prisonment. Such an enactment was to be confined at present to the disturbed districts, and to be extended to the others, if necessary. It had been noticed as, an anomaly in the law, that a party charged with a minor offence might traverse the indictment, which was not allowed in the higher class of offences ; and it was proposed to assimilate the law in the case of the minor, to the higher description of offences, and to shorten the time of trial in cases of misdemeanour. It was also contemplated to make an alteration in the law with respect to the travelling Judges, as the interval was too long between the Circuits ; and to have sent down a Special Commission would have had the appearance of an en post facto law.— He now came to the measure which ke had kept for the last, because he considered it, in.every constitu tional point of view, the most important. Great danger arose to the Country from the seditious and treasonable Press, at which he intended to point the present measure. As the law now stood, it was incredible what a mass of crime, political and reli gious, was committed. It was impossible to arrest the torrent of perverse reasoning addressed to the lower orders, *unless a system of counteraction was speedily adopted. Without that, not only would the other measures proposed prove inadequate, but the mind of the Country would never settle down in con tentment and peace. On the other hand, he could not conceive that the Country could be great, happy, and flourishing, unless it posse.sed a Tree Press.-- (Hear, hear, hear). But if it could not render a free Press compatible with peace, morality, and reli gion, it would be swept away by a storm most ter rible and destructive. He would ask nothing that could shake the two great pillars of a free Press— er, hear, hear). No man should be prevented publishing his own sentiments to the world, on .his own responsibility, by a previous CensorshiPe— (Hoar, hear, hear,freat the Opposigeo)—and nothing should be dope to affect the Trial by Jury, or the Law of the Land—(Hear, hear, hair, frons the Op pasition).--as applied to libel. Julies should continue to decide what was libel--( Hier, hear, hear). The Resolutions would only apply a salutary remedy t o the abuses of the Press. They would render it a real service, for nothing tended more to degrade its dig nity, than the use to which it had lately been put. Neither did he expect any serious opposition to his measure, for he should not open a new principle to Parliament. He only proposed to sustain the exist ing Laws of the Land, and to punish and repress a fraud, which had been long in operation, though he knew not how it was introduced, and which had in jured the respectable and regular Newspapers, and thrown the circulation in the hands of those who had no character, and no tespectability ; but whose aim was to diffuse poison among the People—(•Hear). He alluded to the law which imposed a stamp on Newspapers, and to its evasion by the minor publi cations. 13y the Stamp Laws, advertisements paid a certain and separate duty. The stamp on the paper itself applied to the rest of its contents. Some pam phlets of a smaller kind were also subject to a trdfing duty, and were printed on stamped paper. Thus Cobbett had for many years used stamp paper, and sold his Register at 10d. or Is. but he afterwards gave up stamps, and reduced the price of his p a p er to U. He sho uld propose to follow the legitimate conclusion of the law as it now stood, and to coun teract the fraud committed on the Revenue, and to wards other Newspapers, by considering all publica tions and pamphlets not exceeding two sheets, and containing news, intelligence, or political strictures, in the fight of Newspapers, and coming within the meaning of the Stamp /set, which they had hitherto evaded. This, he conceived, would restore the public circulation to the respectable Newspapers, or force the minor publications to pay what was due to the cwt. try. Tile second regulation, which he should pro pose, would be also on a principle alreadT esta blished and recognised by the law of the land, which declared that eatery publication must contain the name of its Fainter or publisher, in order that he may be aroepable to justice. He wished for nothing more than to prevent that disposition of the law from proving nugatory. The mischief Awes, that as mat ters now stood, the real author sheltered bimscif by putting forward some wre tched vagaud, wbos.rfir a misetable hire, took upon himself all the responst , bility and the chances of proseco whilst u tien. heard of an individual who, der e t a he' n sen -, He bd nc t ence of the law, laughed at the idea of its being an impediment to the continuance of his imProPgr av° - cations, and said, how can it prcyes me when I can . find an individual for -f•artroWts ,*".47.. 4° - 101 put his name to p ow heati 4016: it instance, to Save the time of the Home, he allowed to assume that these were admitted. id assume, then, that great danger menaced ratty, and that, in consequence, extraordinary 7ere necessary on the part of Parliament.— would assume from the statement which ap n one pait of the Speech of his Royal High- Prince Regent, that it had been seen that a ,iisaffection was in activity, which was in ihle with the Constitution, and which, in fact, menace all the rights of society, and even the on w :lich property was secured, and, con iy, the very existence of society itself. This he c onsidered to be fortified even by the tg e of the Amendment which a Right Hon. had moved to the Address, in which that ion. Gentleman called on the House to give a pledge (pledging himself to no particular of course), that they would maintain the Moo against all the machinations of the dis . fie was, moreover, fortified in it by the ions come to by large bodies of the Magis -1 L a ncashire and Cheshire, and by those of Ind Jury of Lancaster. If further support necessary to maintain his assumption, it would 1,1 in the language of a Lord Lieutenant of a as large, as populous, and as wealthy, as the Kingdom, . who had described things, part of the country, in which he found him bordering on riot and rebellion... 4 Hear, hear). mourable Member for Taunton N ( lt. Raring) stated, that a state of things now existed in mtry which must be put down, or if suffered inue, it would overtprn the prosperity of the 1, and pull down the deluded People with it. hie Lord then alluded to the situation of Ire rhich, he said, with a few local exceptions, was ate of tranquillity and prosperity beyond what been for some time past. So in this Country, iced the agricultural interests were reviving; !though some discontents might preiail in cer manufacturing districts, he was persuaded there laity enough even in these districts, aided by ring arm of the law, to put down treason and , a even there. It was not for the State he led, but for the deluded People, who resided in districts. With respect to the trade of this ry, he had no reason to consider that our sets were narrowed, either in America or else- Having said thus much, by way of intro in, he should now preceed to state the mei'. be had to propose. The first would relate imultuons Meetings. The second related to ing and Exercising. The third measure was iye extraordinary Powers of Seizing Arms. fourth was to give speedy Means of prosecuting !meanotirs ; and the fifth would relate to the to restrain as far as possible the publication isonable and blasphemous writings. With re co the first measure, that of turbulent Meet :.—These Meetings he could only contemplate Wing to a sanguinary rebellion, and ending in try despotism. The principle of these Meetings defined by Thistiewood in his resolution : he that 100, 1,000, or 100,000, meeting with flags ithout, with arms or without, was equally a legal till some blow was struck. Such a posi :as most absurd, it was making a mockery of and regular government ; and he would be bold y, that, under our present system, it was utterly .sihle that any Government could long exist. it to be borne, that we were to live in our pre . state of alarm ; that whenever any of those itators chose to call a Meeting of the deluded iple, that the Magistracy, the military, and all loyal part of the community should be called the shops shut up, and industry suspended to :ertain extent ? and, under existing circumstances, :aid any Government have acted otherwise than cre,ent Government had done—(Hear, hear).— ae,c Deluded people called' out for an abolition of hosioss and Sinecures, and were told such a mea sure would put an end to all their miseries. Why, thli formidable list were abolished, it would not in ten years amount to a saving sufficient to repay the Manchester Manufacturer the ss. for the day's earning sacrificed to attend this Meeting. The people alsc the National Debt an imposition and a cheat, demanded its abolition. If so base and cl;ihonourable a measure could be adopted, it would rt fail to bring ruin on the poor and industrious, although it might relieve the designing from the pay ment of a certain portion of taxes. The Noble Lord .then adverted to the opinion given by the several Lawyers who had spoken in the House since the l•leeting of Parliament, all of whom had declared the :looting to be an illegal one; except one Learned Gentleman, who was to delivei• his opinion for con sidering it a legal one in the debate of to-morrow tight. For the present, he would take that Learned Gentleman's opinion to be right, and it would tell in his favour ; for if such Meetings were legal, it was desirable to prevent their being so any longer.— lte wished to hold sacred the tight of the subject to neet and deliberate ; but it must be seen that to render these Meetings consistent with the public peace and tranquillity, the numbers muse be limited. This ch;ect might be effected without any invasion of the ancient right of the People to meet under the prop er Constituted Authorities ; but, unless our liber ties could be secured consistently with a regard to the existing laws, and the safety of individuals, they mist soon be lost. With respect to the first measure he had to propose, the object must be the limitation of numbers and restrictionalf extent. He did not intend to interfere with the usual course of County and Corporation Meetings, but all others could oaly sleet on notice to a Magistrate, and within the Parish 'here the Requisitionists reside. The Noble. Lord here read the opinion of Lord Erskine upon th e sub ject of these Meetings; which was, that the holding to such Meetings tended much to Aggravate the P c " verty of the lower classes, by the interruption of their employment. He -proposed that it should NI micle a misdemeanout for an individual not within the Parish to call a Meeting of the Inhabitants. lii Parishes the population exceeded the number . of V. 1 0)0, and it was intended in such cases to divide tie population, so that no Meeting should take place where the population exceeded 10,000 persons. Ry such regulation two objects would be gained: — toe Meeting would be really deliberative ; and nume roas Meetings would be prevented. Those men, also, who made a trade of travelling about the country proclaiming grievances, would be stopped in "s'r calla. AL rment a cumber of simultaneoui karat, i arat, therefore, neceesary to Mato thf regiategua apd r - ,aslant. that - e re were .altogelber in I most publisher really responsible : to the couitry.' News- flourishing condition! It was vet, extraordinary, west in themselves, from the extent and nes then, that at a time-when the Nation Hhti all the re cure of their establishmend, sufficient evidence of the , simnel of happiness, that its character Should he so responsibility of their owners and publishers. But changed, that its old laws should not be sufficikit tes . . the Act would require all persons setting up mime ' govern it P--(Hod, hear) —but that a series of en publications, to deposit a previous pecuniary seen- croachments should be made noon the Constitu . nty and equal sums from those who should go secu• ; Union, is order to preserve the public peace!—(Hear). ;hies for them, to abide the result of any judgment I That, besides, the Army should receive an add i t iona l which the law might afterwards pass upon them, force of 10,000 men ; and that Yeomanry Cots . either for libel or blasphemy. This would bring out should be raised and armed to keep down disaffection the real person, and the responsibility would lie where throughout the kingdom. The Noble Lord took., a. . it ought. The third regulation was one which he strange way to prove by facts his position of a flow conceived necessary to give effect to the others.— risking country. He (Mr. Tierney) was aware that . It tended to impose a moderate penalty on- all per opinions, not to be reconciled with the true spirt of sons selling or hawking about those publications British liberty, were entertained by some portion of which were not duly stamped, or the poblisheis of the community. In supporting his Amendment, he which had not fulfilled the conditions required. The had acknowledged it ;.but he never saw the dangerous penalty, it was intended, should be recoverable be- tendency of those opinions so strongly as now. If fore a Magistrate. Besides the dispositions which he the unfortunate men (said Mr. Tierney) who have had already explained in the new law, which, it was been deluded by them, the followers of such a leader hoped would counteract those evils, a clause would as Hunt, and others, could now look into this House, . be introduced to inflict a more severe punishment on and see to what a pass they have brought the liberties the repetition of an offence. He meant on its repeti- of their country, they could have no reason to rejoice tiop after a first conviction. By a former Bill, the that they had acted as they had dpne, -abusing the punishment affixed to this particular kind of offence Whigs, and decrying all but the wildest notions r. and was transportation for seven years. This he should for what?—to be given over, bound hand and foot, to a not now propose to make compulsory, but he should state of law differing almost nothing from an Inquisis leave ft at the option of the Judges, in cases of tion I The Whigs had been taunted with the reproach libel, sedition, treason, and blasphemy, to transport of having been excluded from office during fifty year", for seven years, or to banish for any period they It was true—and such were the results I—(Hear It—s .-* might think proper. For if individuals sinned with The end of that fifty years was the enactment of . open eyes, after having received the sentence of the laws unknown to the Constitution, to put down sea law, it was just to visit them with an increase of dition and tumult I There were measures proposed punishment. lie bad now stated the outline of the to prevent drilling—to take away the possession of ire measures which were deemed necessary by his arms—the right of traverse, and the Liberty of the • Majesty's Government to meet the existing perils. It Press :he ivould take them in order—he had not had hisk also been found expedient to augment the Mai- time maturely to consider them, but his mind.was tart' force of the Country, in order to give effect to open to conviction. As to the right of traverse, he the measures which should be adopted. He trusted could not speak on it as a lawyer—he did not know the statements which he had laid before the House but it might be sometimes productive of inconveni- . . would shew that this augmentation of force had been ence, but it was right to pause before a change was effected in the mode most consonant with the public made in the ancient pi inciple of law, rendered sacred interest, and -theleast expensive to the State. Beyond by immemorial usage—(Hear, hear!)—As to the what had been done and proposed, it was gratifying Bill to authorise searching for arms, before he would to find, that the restoration of tranquillity would ten- agree to any measures which went to deprive Eng der further defence unnecessary. But much would lishmen of the right of carrying arms for their des. depend on the firm resolution of Government, and of fence, a very strong case indeed should be made the property of the Country, to maintain the audio- out. As to the assembling of large bodies of armed rity of the laws, and to shew the disaffected, that, in men, if that were not provided against by law, proportion as they increased their efforts against the he had no objection to a new law on the sub. Constitution of the Country, the friendi of that Con- had ; but he could not agree , that b ecau s e there stitution augmented their efforts in its defence. No. had been some indications of disaffection in Lan thing now remained for him to do, but to explain the cashire, Cheshire, and a part of Scotland, that views of Government with respect to the duration of the whole people of England should be deprlied the measures which they now proposed. When the Le- of the right of carrying arms for their own sidecars called upon the subjects to submit to a certain protection. Here Lord Castlereagh said across abridgement of their rights to meet a particular emer- the table that t his law was intended to be of a local cy, it only required a temporary sacrifice of those and temporary nature, like the Watch and Ward yin Ins. It was on this ground that , wh en his Majesty's Act2.---The Right Hon. Gentleman observed, that istershad feltthemselves compelled to proposethe Act was not perfectly in his recollection; but, how- Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, it had only ever, as to drilling, he would at once allow, that what been for a time. He was happy to say, that such a ever the law had left imperfect with tegard to that measure was not at present in contemplation, Those point ought to be Supplied. . He then animadverted which were recommended did not tend to the sus- upon the measure regarding tumultuous Meetings— pension of any right, but to prevent the abuse of a every case should rest upon its own circumstances, right ; it was therefore evident that the case required and Magistrates would be blameable if they did not a different policy to be adopted, and that,.instead of, take precaution when there had been previous inc - temporary palliatives, the remedies should be per- cations of disturbance. Yea, why had military force manent in their nature. With respect to the third, been resorted to when it was obvious that the eiv4 measure, founded on the Act of nig, and giving force was sufficient ? He then remarked upon the extraordinary power to the Magistrates to search for peaceable managen,ent and dispersion of large fifeet. • arms, it would be only local and temporary. But if ings similar to that at Manchester—such as the he distinctly under stood the nature of the test, and Meetings at York and Hunslet Moor, when there in particular of that intended to repress Seditious were banners and military array—but no military Meetings. it appeared to him that they should be force and no tumult. The Honourable Gendemao made permanent. He was not aware that they in- then deprecated strongly the intended plan for lie fringed on any ovular right. He believed them not regulation of Public Meetings, and said jt would e s to touch the Liberties of th e Press, but, on the con• stroy all that remained of the old English spirit--t -wary, to protect them. He should th erefore not pro- (Hear, heer)—which had been productive of more pose that they should be limited in point of time. If prosperity to the Nation, than the Administration o f Parliament affixed limitations, what agitation would the Noble Lord, if it were to continue for 100 years. they not prepare in future for the country? Let there- Mr. Burke had calledhem the safety-valve Of die fore no limitation be enacted , but let it be left to the Constitution, through w hich the foul air evaporated Iwisdom and prudence of the country, when these and cleared the political atmosphere ! An Admit*, I l laws should be found useless, to repeal them. At tration th at p ro p osed such measures must be viewed present, he believed they wou ld: prove its safeguard. with suspicion. He would reserve his more parti- He regretted that he should have been compelled to calar objections until the discussion on the Bill, when trouble the House at such length--(Hear, hear, from he hoped it would be met page by page, and line ln all sides)—and ' should conclude by requesting leave line. The system of the Noble Lord was not a new to bring in a Bill, first, for more effectually prevent- one. It was the system that relied upon the efficacy lug Seditious Meetings and Assemblies, and after- of coercion, and never attempted to conciliate. which wards one for the better Regulation of the Press.— had been long acted upon—(Hear). By puttiag The others should be intToduced into another place. down Meetings--inen who now mou eal effect, w pted on scaffold); The question having been read from the Chair, and talked nonsense, that had no reold Mr. TIERNEY rose and said, that notwithstand- be turned into dangerous deliberate conspiratera-r -ing the denunciations of the Noble Lord, he could (Hear, hear). The Honourable Member then res not help rising to express his dissent from many of marked upon the injurious tendency of laws to put new the principles which:be had laid down. He rose restrictions on the Press, and while he expressed his . errth reluctance, because he could not then go into abhorrence of works of impiety and seditiop, was all the variety of matter, which upon great Consti- convinced that the existing laws were sufficient to put tutional subjects had been laid before the Heise. He them down ; but the Press was in good hands, and it (Mr Tierney) had come down to that House with a would throw Such light upon its own case, as the determination to give the most calm and dispassionate Noble Lord could not . extinguish—(Hear, hear).--r attention to the propositions of the Noble Lord. He if' the Noble Lord thinks that the new laws will be had no previous knowledge of these measures, and effectual, where is the occasion for the 10,000 men? lie was more prepared to Concur, with than too ppose -4,,Cheers). clear that the Noble Lord , feels, that any regulations which it could he shewn were neces- hik new laws are more likely to exasperate than to Sat) for the public tranquillity; he, at all events, en- conciliate, and the best comment upon all the Noble tertaincii pq prejudice • his judgment was altogether Lord has advanced in favour of his new projects, is unbiassed by any consideration. He deprecated the his declaration, " I want 10,000 men into the bar assertion of the Noble Lord, that he (Mr. Tierney) gain s r —Wear, hear). My sincere belief is, that he hid pledged himself to support his measures, by will want many more than 10;000 men, and what a having agreed ao the Address—he had done no suc h melancholy peospect does this hold out to the Corm. thing. It was ancandid to impute it to him. He try. It may be said that I use violent language. I thought he had treacle it distinctly understood, that Admit it,-; and all I can say in answer is, that I do his concurrence ip the Address bound him to .. .t. utter a single syllable . that Ido not, on my ho subsequent Measures any further than the neces - nour, belikve—(Cheery). I am an alarmist. I feel city of them shoold ' be proved—that necessity, in alarm, because lam compelled to trust to men who the present instance, had not been proved. He de- will rely on nothing against the People but brute nied that any case had been made out to justify the force—Wear, hear). lam alarmed because an at measures proposed by the Noble Lard -( Hear, hear). tempt is to be made, under false pretences, to destroy As to the Papers which; by the gracious command all that is valuable in the Constitution, unless it be of his Royal 'Highness, had been laid before the defended by the free spirit of a yet free Nation. House, a more garbled and mutilated statement of Therefore it is thati indelge a hope, ,that while the .. evidence, he had never beheld—( Hear). The Noble right ofd ng remaius, the People will meet, and Lard had stated that the greeter part • of the Nation will express eir opinions with such effect' that the was soupd—sthat the agricultural interests were threats and meas u re s of. coercion maybe abandoned loyal-and even in then, distressed districts, aprag —(ffear), I had hoped that a more Moderate course themanufacturing classes, that the great mass of the would have been punned, because, with. the exam. I population was well disposed. The Noble Lord hid tion of the Disturbed Districts, as theY are caDA.- 'alio stated, to his astonishment, that the internal there ie •sto part. of _Great Britain where AeseMblies trade was good.; that foreign trade suffered iso marmot be beld r evenhrthe adMission of IC further than at wakaffected by the.sisstreassain Ames without the -eli6 errab -.. . to.the public . passte. - *.a ; that.the . accustomed sent for *9 prfliectio of tr4st * l kt. the. faek9FW ly a ..149 gr 41S .a - h iuttunrY was Ste a l open on the Continent ;—• thehotore oi'veeso oor awn . ihe ject4 . wt..- ••-..:. R • I 1 1 LI :JUL