Star. — London, England, 1809-02-28 00:00:00

' • PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. • HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, FEB. 27. In the Appeal, " Roche sr. Morgil," Mr. Fonblanque was heard for the Appellant, and Sir Samuel Romilly for the Re spondent.—Further hearing on Friday. Leave was given to the Earl of Clancarty to attend a Commit tee of the House of Conunons. A paivate Bill was brought up from the Commons by Mr. Ly got and other Member', and read a first time. Mr. Irving, from the Custom-house, presented an account of the Trade with Spain and Portugal, from the Ist of May 1807 and 1808 respectively, which was ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. IRISH DISTILLERIES. The Earl of DARNLEY expressed his anxiety to call the atten tion of their Lordships to a subject of great importance, respect ing whisk he had intended to have made a motion, had he seen some Noble I.ords on the other side in their places. He observed by the votes of the House of Commons, that there was a Bill in progress in that House, allowing the Irish Distilleries again to work, which he thought would , if p assed into a law, be produc tive of the most ruinous consequences to the Esitish Empire, and to Ireland in particular; he therefore gave this timely notice of his intention to give it every possible opposition, if it came up to their Lordships House. • Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. A new Member took the oaths and his seat. Colonel BASTARD brought in a Bill to explain and amend the Laws respecting Bastardy, as far as the same relates to the indem nity of Parishes. The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. COUNTY OF WEXFORD. Lord PERCY, Chairman of the Committee appointed to try the merits of the Wexford Election, reported at the bar, that it appeared to the Committee that Abel Ram,Esq. had not been duly elected, and also that Wm. Congreve Alcock, Esq. had been duly elected; and also that it appeared to the Committee, that the pe • titions, as far as they related to tho election of Abel Ram, Esq. were frivolous and vexatious, and that the petition relating to the election of W. C. Alcock, Esq. did not appear to the Committee to be either frivolous or vexatious. Lord PERCY then delivered in the Report. M r. Irvine, from the Office of the Inspector General of Imports ' and E::ports, presented at the bar certain Accounts relating to the Quantity of Cotton-wool and Flax-seed imported into Ireland for the last year. They werecordered to Ile on the table. TIIE DUKE OF YORK. Lord FOLKSTONE gave notice that he would t.-morrow move, that the House be called over on Wednesday, the Bth day of M arch. BANKRUPT LAWS. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY give notice that he would, on Wed nesday next, move for leave to bring in a Bill to explain and amend certain parts of the Bankrupt Laws. • NAVAL REVISION. Mr. ROBERT WARD brought up the 9d, sth, 6th, 7th, sth, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th Reports of the Commissioaen of Naval Revision. He stated, that the Ist, 2d, and 4th had already been delivered in. They were ordered to lie on the table. Sir CHARLES POLE objected to the printing of these papers so soon, particularly cm the very day on which they had been brought up, and when the Naval Estimates were to be submitted to the consideration of the House. Mr. ROBERT WARD apprised the Hon. Baronet thit no motion had been made for printing the papers. The Irish Bank Note Bill went through a Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. Mr. ASHLEY COOPER deferred the consideration of the Ordnance Estimates till Friday The Hopse having gone into a Committee of Supply, and or dered that the further Miscellaneous Estimates tor Ireland, and those for the Army and the Naval Estimates, be referred to the same, the following Grants, on the motion of Mr. FOSTER, were then vot , d: • For the Orphanage Society in Dublin, to be applied to the use of the Protestant Charter Schools in iraand, for the year ending the sth of Janury 1810, £26,305. A short conversation took place on the increase of this Grant, between sirs Julia Newport, Arthur Wellesley, and Mr. Foster, who jus shed the necessity •-f the increase, on the ground of the . great increase in the price of provisions. Sir JOHN NLWPORT gave notice, that be would on Thurs day move for the production of the Reports relative to the Boar d l of f.ducation in Ireland, and of the State of the Protestant Scamo's. Fc.r the Irish Linen Manufactory for the same period 5t21,600. For the Irish Lotteries for the same period .E:4983. lor the Printing and the Stationary for the Office of the Chief Secretary in Ircland, and his Deputy, as also far one yeas's salary, for the Clerks in same, for the same period, £21,900. The above bums were voeid to be of Irish currency. RTMAINING ARMY ESTIMATES. The SECRETARY at WAR said, that as upon that day week the establishment for the Army had betm voted, he had now only to move for the remain ing Estimates which had upon that day been post poned. There would be fctlnd some increase in some few Estimates, owing to the increase of our effective force within the year ; most however of the Estimates would be found to be nearly the same as those of the last year. The first• article in which any material difference had occurred, was in that of the Estimates for the Staff and Garrison. The Staff abroad had been necessarily increased, - particularly in Spain and Portugal. There had been before that 10,0001. al lowed for the Staff abroad, on the score of contingen cies, but this sum had not been found to be adequate. The next article of increase was that of the Estimates for the full pay of the Supernumerary Officers ; and there would be also found in the Estimates of the public department, an increase of 60,0001., but as a balance against this, the public Fees in the Pay- Cfl;cc; anti in some measure in the War Office, had been done away. Besides, he wished the Committee to observe that much of what was hitherto rated under the head of contingencks, was now reduced to d stinct and specified estimates, so that in fact there pia; no increase of expence, it was merely nominal and only an increase of estimate ; there would be found too some small inads,se as to the charge of the half-Pay Fund, and also in the estimate for the Out- Fensioners ; the increase on account of the expenceb of the Local Militia could be obviously accounted for; that description of force far exceeded in expence the Volobt, establishment, the increase would amount to 1,‘20:40001. ; there was a rough estimate of the cloathing for the Local Militia of 400,0001. but this sum would go to provide for the four succeeding years. There would be also a slight increase in the estimates for the Royal Military College and Military Asylum. The rest of the Estimates would be found to be the same as last year. Mr. HENRY MARTIN said, that when the ex cess of the estimates for the current year over those O f the past amounted to 1,500,0001. that House had some right to demand every explanation as to the cause and circumstances of the increase. The excess in the estimates for the public departments amoun ted to 60,0001. There was charged for the Exche quer tees 96,6011. when the fees themselves amoun ted only to 11,6001. For the office of the Paymasters • General the estimate was 54,7711. exceeding the • s ame Of last year b y 20,0001. This increase had been accounted for by the addition to the. number of De puty Paymasters, but were not many of these.places sinecures ? The allowance for the - expences of the office of the Secretary at War, his Deputies, Clerks, and Assistants, was this year 54,8481. ; here the ex cess over that of the last . year amounted to 27,8481. r t• There had been also an excess , in the estimate for the foreign corps. There had been also introduced new heads of estimates that had never been mentioned be fore. There were under these heads miscellaneous charges to the amount of 70,8001.. of this 54,0001 was under new heads. % For the foreign depot there had been a charge of 50001. which was new. There had been also a new estimate, under the head of fo reign invalids, which amounted to 48301. He wished to have those additional charges accounted for. The SECRETARY at WAR said, that with re spect to the public department, the increase was merely nominal, the fees having been allotted to the expenditure of the War Office. There had been an addition of one or two Clerks, and the salaries of the junior clerks were to go on progressively, in a certain proportion. With respect to the foreign corps, much of its expences were hitherto charged under the head of Contingencies, but now the same expellees were stated tinder distinct intimates, so that the increase here was nominal. • lathe same way other items, which had been under the head of the Extraordi naries, were now reduced to estimate. This was the cause of the new heads in the estimates of the present year. Mr. C. LONG confirmed this statement, and said, that it was in most instances - an increase of estimate, and not an increase of expence. There was an addi tion of 11,6001. on Exchequer fees, but of those there had been a deficiency of 58001. With respect to the Deputy Pay Masters abroad, those were formerly pro vided for, under the head of the contingencies, to the amount of 15,0001. but they were now given in esti mate. He did not know of one Deputy Paymaster's place which was a sinecure, but that of Gibraltar, which had been so for time immemorial. He had never appointed any person to that situatidn, who had not been required to do the duties of it :—there was a necessary addition to the expences under this head, in consequence of the Deputy Paymasters who were sent out with Sir John Moore and General Spencer, and at Madeira. . • Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON did not see how the mode of proceeding with respect to the fees, and the application of them to the expences of the Pay-office, or War-office, could bring before the pub lic the exact estimate. General FITZPATRICK wished to know, whe ther it was intended to abolish the private fees ? The SECRETARY at WAR apprehended„ that that would be productive of inconvenience; but that however the subject would be taken into due consi; deration. Lord TEMPLE bore evidence to the accuracy of Mr. Long's statement. Mr. WILLIAMS WYNNE wished to know whe ther it was the intention of Government to relieve the parishes from the unjustifiable burdens imposed upon them by the system of volunteering into the Local Militia ? He wished also to know, whether any allowance would be made to the smaller card volunteers, as otherwise, he feared, that 9iis valuable force would be considerably diminished to the course of the present year? He wished also to put the June and August corps on a similar footing with other corps. Ihe SECRETARY at WAR observed, that the points alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman were already under consideration, and would be duly at tended to. • Mr. H. MARTIN said, that there were £40,000 for telegraphic buildings in Ireland in the estimates. The state of the atmosphere in Ireland was so unfa vourable, that some explanation ought to be given when such a sum was required. Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY observed, that an attempt had been made to convey intelligence by telegraph through Galway and Athlone to Dublin, instead of the former communication by the circui tous line of the coast ; and though this might be mere expensive at first, it would ultimately be cheaper. Mr. M. FITZGERALD said, that the Royal Malta Regiment was said, oh one occasion, to have thrown down its arms. It was important this should be contradicted, if not true ; .-nd if it was true, the expence ought to constitute no part of the recruiting fund of this country. Mr. WILI3ERFORCE adverted to the state of regiments as to Chaplains. He had a sort of feeling at first with respect to them, which rendered him happy to get rid of them. But he did not at the same time see the consequences ; for it appeared that there were thousands who went on dangerous service without a clergyman to attend them. He wished that the use of the Chaplain service could be pre served without the abuses. He thought that the black regiments in the West Indies ought liken ise, as hu man beings, to have some attention paid them in this respect. The SECRETARY at WAR said, there had been improvements in the system, and that more were in contemplation, and by these improvements the West-India Regiments would profit. As to the Royal Regiment of Malta, he had heard the reports mentioned, but he heard th,..n contradicted, and he could really, of his own knoWledge, say nothing pre cise on the subject. Mr. WILLIAM SMITH called another subject to the attention of the Committee. When we under- took the defence of an island such as Sicily, it was to ' be expected that its own Government should adopt the proper means for that purpose as.far as possible. There were reports that the Neapolitan Government was so oppressive, that the Sicilians could scarcely be friendly to it. The lamented Sir John Moore, when he was going to Sicily, expressed some doubts on the subject, and certainly our Government -ought, in the actual situation of the case, to give some hints that would be attended to. He would make no motion; and only mentioned the subject that the people might know that the circumstance had not escaped the at tention of their Representatives. The following sums were then voted : Public departments - - Half Pay and Military Allowances - In Pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainham • Hospitals - .- 67,143 14 11 Out-Pensioners of ditto - - 425,269 1 9 Widows Pensions - - 49,487 11 8 Volunteer Corps - - 1,000,820 0 6 Local Militia - - 1,219,803 9 0 Foreign Corps - - 933,654 6 10 Royal Military College - - 16,975 17 4 Royal Military Asylum - - - 23,350 9 2 Allowance to Retired and Officiating Chaplains 24,972 12 11 Medicines and Hospital Expences • - 115,024 8 4 Compassionate List • - . 14,300 0 4 Barrack Department (Ireland) - 479,875 16 11 , Commissariat Department (Ireland) - 235,508 14 2 £257,711 13 3 23;568 5 1 Sir'CHARLES POLE observed, that before pro ceeding to the Navy Estimates, certain Naval reports, under which the estimates had been considerably aug mented, ought to be before the House, and this was the more necessary as some of the Resolutions were founded on these Reports. The Honourable Baronet also observed, that in the new appointments which had taken place in consequence of these Reports, more attention had been paid to influence and patro nage, than to the fitness of the persons to execute the duties. As an instance of deficiency in the Pay Department, he mentioned the case of the crew of the 1• Standard, which had irregularly assailed the •Admi- ralty. Mr. WARD said, that the increase in the Esti,. mates was £1,500,000, and that out of that the sum of £1,200,000 was under the head of Transports, and had nothing to do with the Reports in question. He had no objection, however, to postpone the Estimates till Friday to give time to the House to examine the Reports. • Mr. WELLESLEY POLE expressed himself to the same effect, and ascribed the blame of not hav ing some of the Reports before the House already; to himself. The reason was, that he had thought it proper to wait till the whole could be laid before the }louse at once. Mr. WHITBREAD thought that a further delay ought to be allowed, and also said, that it would have been more useful to have laid the Reports on i the table one by one, as they would be more likely to be examined than if they came in a mass. Mr. WELLESLEY POLE explained that part of the observations of the late Speaker which referred to the conduct of the crew of the Standard. The ship which the Right Hon. Admiral had alluded to, was the Standard, which had returned from India, after several years absence. The circumstance attending that ship and her crew, he 'could easily explain : There is a regulation, that when ships come from abroad, after a long service, part of the pay is ad vanced to the ship's company immediately upon their arrival, if a favourable report be made of them by their Captain, and they are allowed to go ashore to visit the friends. The Standard having been fa vourably reported, the Admiralty made an advance to the men, but it so happened that they did not come exactly under those rules which entitled them at the same time to leave of absent.. The crew, not understanding how this happened, came up to Lon don in a body, and most respectfully stated their case to the Lords of the Admiralty, who paid the utmost attention to their statement, but, while doing them justice, they were determined not to forego their duty. They thought it a case of hardship, and they determined to enlarge their rule : They ordered them to return' to their ship, and report themselves to . their Captain. This was done without giving them any promise ; but the Admiralty soon afterwards ordered them to have leave of absence (besides having their pay), in °rag to visit their friends.— This was the mutinous abd disorderly conduct to which an allusion lr-d been made. He would leave to the House to judge of the facts. For his part, be valued too highly the character of a British seaman to charge him, upon light grounds,.with such a serious tor - e Lure of his glory and credit. With re spect to the persons appointed to the augmented Commissioners of the Navy, he could say, that, with out any reference to persons, they were appointed by the present Lord of the Admiralty solely on their merits, without the least reference to their connec tions, or even their names. The next charge or the Honourable Baronet referred to the Victualling Board. He had first to remark upon the totalinCoso petency of that Board, as it originally stood, to-fulfil its duties. From their own accounts, it was apparent, that whether in excess or whether in deficiency, it was impossible to ascertain either. Some had their accounts to excess more than 4000 casks, others less by a similar amount ; but still the public expen diture had under such management increased tenfold. Under such circumstances he was the most foremost to propose to Lord Mulgrave the necessity of an im mediate and radical reform. It was also his opinion that the persons under whom this system had grown, were by no means the persons by whom it wav to be corrected. The only difficulty was in the way of fill ing them up ; and he had to assure the House, that, with the exception of Colonel Walsh, the persons appointed to the two Boards were selected for their own intrinsic merits, and were not personally known to Lord Mulgrave. With respect to Colonel Walsh, his qualifications from long service were such that he could not allow the justice of the observation, that because he was the Brother-in-law of Lord Mul -1 grave, he had not a justifiable claim to a situation which from talents he was fully qualified to fulfil. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER supported the observations of the last Speaker, and denied the doctrine, that when equal merits demand ed acknowledgements, public men were not justified in supporting their own immediate friends. Mr. WHITBREAD conceived that only a hard case arose out of the hard and indeed uncalled-for comments of the Right - Honourable Gentleman (Mr. W. Pole). It appeared to him there was no necessity for such a vigorous attack, as the Right Honourable Gentleman was running before the wind. He was most ready to allow that if the persons appointed came within the recommendation of the Commissioners of Naval Revision, there was no force in the objection that one of the persons so appointed was a near rela tive of the First Lord of the Admiralty. That Com mission had recommended men of professional know ledge and of uninterrupted industry. It was there fore a quekion which on a future opportunity would be argued, whether the persons selected by the present Board came within their definition. Sir C. POLE explained. Mr. FULLER observed, that the Hon. Gentleman over the way (Mr. Whitbread) had spoken of the warmth of the Hon. Gentleman below him (Mr, W. Pole,) and had said that he wrought himself into a foam on the present occasion. It was quite natural for the Hon. Member (Mr. Whitbread) to use such', afro* expression. —(Loud laughter.)—The vindica tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. W. Pole) had given him great pleasure ; and he hoped that nct only he, but all his family, would be in office, that the country might enjoy their services.—Hear! Hear! Mr. WARD accused the Honourable _ Baronet (Pole,' of an attempt to raise unjustifiable suspicion. Spargere inter vn*ant veers ambigias. Mr. HENRY MARTIN stated, that an unfavour- able and tmjust constriction was pat upon the stat e . ment of his Honourable Friend (Sir C. Poll ). After a few words farther, between the CtlANcp,r.. Lou of the EXCHEQUER, Mr. WHITBREAD, and Sir c. POLE, &c. the House resumed, and the Report w 3, ordered to be received to-morrow, and the Comrr.;u:,. to sit again on Wednesday. On the motion of Sir M. FOLKES., a new ter„ was ordered to be issued for King's Lynn, in the r 00 ;, Of Lord Walpole, now Earl of Orford, called to the House of Lords. --- - - -- ----- CORRUPTION IN THE DISPOSAL OP OPPICLS. On the motion of Mr. BANKES the Strjeant was called to the bar, and asked, if he had any report to make to the House with respect to J. Ann Sh ee , whom he had been ordered by that House to take into custody ? The S2rjeant stated, that the Messenger had calll at his house several times, and could not find him. The Messenger (Mr. Wright) was then called n, and stated, that he had been in seatch of Mr. Sh ee ever since the evening on which the House had ( T . tiered him to be taken into custody. He went en din evening, about a quarter before seven o'clock, being told that he might soon be expected hom e , wilted till near twelve o'clock expecting his return._ Me called next morning, and was informed that h e had not come home. He again went on the Wed. nesdaY and Thursday, but without success. He then went to other apartments which were del , cribed tc him as belonging to Mr. Shee , where , he was infor med, he carried on the business of an army agent, ur. der the name of Calvert, but was equally unsucce:,sfil Mr. BANKES then moved, that it appears to thic House, that J. Anthony Slice had absconded, in or der to avoid being served with the order of that H o i i , e . He then moved, that an humble Address be pie. sented to his Majesty, praying that lie would he pleased to give orders for the issuing of a procl tion, with such rewards as his Majesty might proper, for the discovering, apprehending and detaia ing the said J. Anthony Shee, otherwise Calve: t.— Ordered. • CORN DISTILLERY PROHIBITION BILL. Sir J. NEWPORT, in allusion to what had fallen from Mr. Foster on a former night, declared his con viction, that the Irish people, far from burning with a disposition to resist the laws, were well disposed to respect them, if Government would apply themselves to the correction of what was improper in the admi nistration of those laws. If the Right Honourable Gentlemen were desirous to confer a benefit ca Ireland, he assured them they would do infinitclj more to tranquillize the people by comprehending Ireland under this act than by all the Penal Laws on their Statute Book. TLe .Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Foster) had on this oceasion furnished him Wth argument against himself. He had proposed consi. derable augmentations to the different charities in Ireland, on account of the encreased rate of provi sions in the year 1809 more than in the year 1808. And with the same breath he proceeds to allow the distillery from corn in Ireland, as if corn in that country instead of rising had fallen in price clurin:..; the latter year. He concluded by moving that die Report be recommitted for the purpose of introducing a clause extending the prohibition to Ireland. Mr. FULLER was ashamed of Ministers, for the way in which they had treated this question. Of Ail weak questions which had been agitated in t!is House, the present, he thought, wat the weakest. If they could not check illicit distillery in Ireland, were they therefore to allow it to go on at full swing ? On the same princ i ple should they allow smuggling tit). take its course it, this country. He was really ashamed of This seemed to be a question as to which of the two Chancellors of the Exchequer wore the breeches. They were wrong in letting out such private quarrels, which , would be better concealed. He -did not wish to say any ill of the Irish, but he he. lieved they only wanted catching and taming. By allowing them to carry on illegal Distillery, you only made them ten times worse. He adv scd tire Chan• cellor of the Exchequer of England not to yield much to the Irish Chancellor • else he would find him like an amiable female they had seen in that House, Mrs. Clarke—the more was conceded to him, he would look for so couch the mole. Sir T. TURTON also supported the motion. If there was so much corn in Ireland that they required to revive the Distilleries to consume it, rather let us have it in this country, where the wheat was at five guineas a quarter, and the quartern loaf at I! . `_ l. Mr: HIBBERT was of the same opinion. lde con• sidered the present as a most inconsistent and futile Act, made up of positive and negative qualities, pies and minus, minus and ides, so as just to amount to nothing. Sir R. PEELE could not give a silent vote on such an occasion. The Northern parts of this country were greatly cramped by the dearness of provisions. They were consented with Oats ; they were satisfied with the coarsest food. But if they saw what would relieve their wants applied not to the preservation but to the destruction of men, they would not be so easily satis• fled. Sir A. WELLESLEY maintained, that there was at present as much consained in the private an , i illegal distillation, as would.be both by the public and private distillation wl , :m the former should be le3.alized. Mr. CURWEN said, when he saw tne prices of grain so high, he could not. doubt that people must have had in contempiation the renewal of the Distil. Day. He knew there were people at this moment who would be glad to purchase thousands of bushels of oats, if they could get them. Mr. PARNELL shewed the present to be a direct and manifest infringement of the Act of Union. Mr. FOSTER said, the Right Honourable Ba• ronet (Sir J. Newport) had represented him as sta. ting that the whole Irish nation was inclined to mist the laws. He had not said so. He had confined his observation to the lower classes, while the Right Honourable Baronet, by extending the observa• Lion to the higher classes, included the whole. As to 'the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Fuller) were he to gravel through Ireland, even with the speech he bad that night made, tied round his neck, he (Mr. Foster) would venture to say, that he could no where exPeri• ence greater hospitality. , He proceeded to shew, that the prices of grain were such as rendered this measure advisable. Mr. PARNELL and Mr. CurtwENT explained, Mr. BROWN begged leave only to mention one mportant fact. Some Gentlemen had said, that prohibition were extended to Ireland, we would I WW I the I. M that Brat unf E !Der o f I but ►er fon of 1 in 4 and !no --