Star. — London, England, 1816-06-08 00:00:00

flied by a general enactment, and not by a particular !louse insetted in particular Bills. He objected to She retention in the Bill of this clause 'upon certain points ; in the case of duelling, fur instance, the opi nions of men of honour would be mach more attended to than the laws. In the most distinguished plare and period of gallantry, the Court of Loath the 15th of France, if a law had been made that the parties offending in this manner should eel/er marry, that law would have been a subject of ridicule : but il there bad been a law passed, compelling the patties to marry, and providing tli.tt witness r seduced a married woman should take tie place of the' there would have beet an end of the gallantry-- But the Noble Lord said t h at there was collusion be tween. the parties in this instance, and :hat the offence had been committed with the view of their interinar eiage. This proposition was made to rest on certain expressions in these letters, from which the inference was deduced, that the engagemznt to many had preceded the commission of the offence. These let ters, however, had no dates, and the expressions did not, in his opinion, afford any ground for the rence. The object, it was said, was to pretreat int- Morahty : but, instead of preventing immorality, the iniroduction of these clauses only seived to inflict the vetest punishment on the female, and to give ion. toothy to the libertine. The morality which would be produced by such clauses only amounted to this— . that the offence would be committed, and continued to be communed, in secret. In these cases the most desirable result for the husband would be, that the wife s:muld openly declare her offence, and leave him, iostead ot remaining with him, and suffering him to he the reputed father of a spurious issue. It their Lords!,ips were to convert themselves into ethics on levedetier,, t ley would have a difficult and no very dignified task to perform : but the letters, with one exceptioe, were only those produced on one side—the letters which the husband brought forward to sup port his case. It was °a this ex parte evidence that their Lordships were called upon to retain this clause. From the only letter produced as having been written by the Lady, it did not ow -1r very likely that she sitould have acted upon a cold calculating chance ot a future marriage with her lover ; and yet such was the evidence on which their Lordships were called upon to pi-towline,: on her the doom of perpetual pro stitution But it was on the general gi toted particu larly that he was desirous of testing his objection to tins clause. If the law, as it stood, Lei:limed remedy, teat remedy should be applied by a general law. and n ,t by the insertion of special chases in particular Bibs. If they departed from ti.e usual course of their proceedings, they ought at any rate to have stronger grounds flor it than existed in this instance. Earl STANHOPE said, that them were in tarn daily prayers certain words which must of course be well known to the Bishops—o Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil :" but the prin ciple of those Vic, contended for the retention of this - clause would require a change in the wolds, which taught, upon their principle, to stand thus--‘ , Lead us into temptation, and deliver us not from evil." The LO RD CHANCELLOR recommended it to the House to consider whether they had not them selves been holdicg out enconragement to this species of immorality, by their inattention to this clause on former occasions. It bad long ago appeared to him Ant a little remarkable, that in Bills enabling the husband to marry again—to become tenant by the courtesy—there should have been no provision as to tht marrying or not marrying of the offending wife. The object of this clause was not to lead into tempta tion without delivering from evil, but to disarm temptation, and so delivet from evil. Such was the d.:sign of the staaeiiug order, and of the introduction to these clauses. He did not pretend to be much versed in the rules either of that sort of honour, or that sort of fashion, to which a Noble Earl had re terred: but the real state, of the matter was t his.— th i at, n most cases of this kind which 'came before) them, the object of the adultress appeared to have been a marriage with the adulterer; and yet this clause had always been- omitted, except in one ease, wtare incest was added to adultery. It was well worth their Lordships' consideration, whether, by the r inattention to this clause, they had not themselves v_ry much contributed " to lead into temptation."— It was for their Ler.Aships to determine how they should act in this instance ; but, with whatever per maid regret he did it, he could not help declaring, that in looking at these letters, he could not disen gage his mind' from the impression that the offence 'was committed in consequence of a previous promise .01 marriage. The clause was then negatived without a division. Lord KENYON said, that sufficient notice had not been before given of the intention to propose that ties clause should be continued in the Bill ; and he therefere gave notice, that on the third• reading he sheold again move that the clause be inserted and continued in the Bill.—Report on Monday. 1“1811 LANI`LORD AND TENANT*? DILL. The Earl ef LIMERICK moved, that the Irish Landlord and Teaantellill be committed. After 6:•rtie obstrvations by Earl STANFIOPE, Lord tioLLAND, and Lord REDLIDALII, the Bill was cent snitttd ; and an amendment soggtsted by Lori Its tor cootining the remedy 'of susasmary eject- ' mem to the iintoediiite landlord *dans occupying te nant, was ago east to. Tee Chairman theoreperted progress. and obtained leave to sit again oil Tr. ship ) rd RaDESDALZ ttadertaking to grough the Bill privately, and introduce what should appear to him to be the popes amendment. Lord 'tOLLAI' gave notice, that he should propose his questions on the subject of the Alien Bill on Weinesday.—Adjaurned. HOUSE OF COMMONS) The Metropolis Pavia; Bill went through the Canunittee.—• Wort to be considered us Monday se'rudght. • Two Petitions were presented from Kelm—one - from the ha tter-dealers, and the other from the pririt-rtisrehatiu, at.. A Petition was presented from Peretanee weepecting the Poor Ite Local Poor bill wu reed a third time. The Waterford Ilarilur Bill went through the Committee... — Report on Monday. • Mr. SHAW 4.IIFLITRE presented a Petition from the ParWs toners of St. George's, Hanerer-wpare, on the subject of the new Street and sewer. ciejca. t ONSILOW brought up the report of the Fraudulent pcvises'Bili—to herald a third time on Monday. 'fbe Antentan Convention Amendment Sid was ordered to he committed on Monday. '1 he House went lute a Committee OD the Acts respecting liolikollidloods So; kjej.ROUISbOI4 abtalijd kat to bring in a Sill to re and J gu la l bra att a th or e . Om*: oflaeeirin killerfunlikanct In an.wer to* question from Mk. BROUGHAM. Mr. F. New. touts sots thus last year 6,000 persons went treat Ireland trt uncland. The Bill was brought-up and read .1 tiro lime. Mr. BROUGHAM brought up the Report of the Committer on Education. 'lthir labours, he said, might not be terminated Ibis s e s.sou. • A new writ was ordered for Cation, la Vie rowtt of Sir W. Congrore4 who has accepted the Chiltern Hundred,. The Lottery Dill was read a third time. CORONERs' BILL. Oil the motion that the Coroners' Bill be read a second time, Mr.. SHAW LEFEVRE objected to the Bill, on the grounds of the general distress 'of the country) and of the hurry with which the Bill was brought in, and which did not allow the people to petition against it. lie thought the present salary sufficient, as was evident by the late contest for the situation in Mid. dleses, wh cost the candidates at least 02000. lie moved, as ks amendment, that the Bill be read this day iii months. 'Mr. G. LANGTON supported the amendment. Sir JAMES GRAHAM found a general sentiment throughout the country in favour of this Bill. There were parts in Curiberland and Westmoreland where the Coronets uvre obliged to go fifty and sixty miles to hold an lbquest, at a rate of salary which was filed 70 years hack. In many pans of the kingdom &Coroner's Inquest could not be obtained at ail. He therefore hoped the Bill would not be postponed. Mr. J. SMlTHrwould agree to increase the sala ries of some Coroners, but not of all indiscriminately, and leave it to the Magistrates to judge when and where the increase was necessary. lie thought, there fore, that the Bill should not pass in us present shape. Mr. SWANN supported the 8.11. After a few words from Mr. CuawaN, General THORNTON, and Mr BROUGHAM, 10r the Amend. ment, and from Sir CHARLES DURRELL, Sir ions COI HIPPIFLRT, Mr. MANNEIts :..iurroN, Mr. ROSE, Mr. W. Sailru , and Sir JA‘:Es GUAIi.III, in tavour of the original twition, the House divided, when the nuth. bets were—Fos the Amendniviit 19—Against it 79 --Nllosity In tavour of the Bill 60.—The Bill was then read a second tuns. SILVER COMM. On the motion that toe Silver Coinage Bill be read a second time lord A. HAMILTON said, that the value of the Fold was much higher that that of silver, that it must induce the nieltiiig down f the gold. He spoke at some length on the profits of the Bank from the is suing of Bank tokens, and thought that the public should be protected against the loss which would arise from the refusal of the present silver circulation. He did not see how, without very great difficulty and mach in.lividual suffering, the present currency could be called in aad the new substituted. Mr. ROSE allowed the difficulties that we:uld arise from calling in the silver currency at present in cir culation, but argued that such a measure should ne. cessatily take place at some time or other, and the present be thought the best. The Bank agreed to take their tokens at the price at which they issued them, and therefore thee could be no objection on that point. Mr. FRANKLAND LEWIS thought that there should be a 20s. gold coinage issued instead of the 21s. gold coinage. It would much simplify the ac. , counts arid dealings of the country. The expense of the coinage of £500,000 of such gold pieces at pre. sent could be of no consequence, as a nelv coinage of gold should take place in probably a short time. He, however, thought the present a very unfavourable lime for a new coinage of silver, as while the Bank Restriction Act was continued, the convenience would not justify the expense. He was of opinion that the consequence would be the melting down of file geld and the sending of it out of the country.— At any rate a gold coinage ought to be issued simul. taneously with the silver, as the difference between the value of gold now and in the time of King Wit. ham was but 91 an ounce. Mr. GRENFELL argued. that instead of a profit to the Bank, the issue of tokens would necessarily be' a considerable loss. He gave his decided approba. don to the plan a the coinage. He, however, mold wish that there were 20s. gold pieces issued: Lord A. HAMILTON explained. Mr. SAMUEL THORN TON saw no objection , to the alteration of the gold currency to 20s. pieces. • ' Mr. W. POLE observed, that it the Noble Lord bad attended the Committee, he would have heard his statements, in which he (Mr. W. Pole) took up considerably the time of the House. The Noble Lord's objections were not to the principle, but to the details. which would be better discussed in a Committee. He (Mr. W. Pole) had already de. scribed the mode intended to be adopted by Govern ment respecting the bad coin scattered throdgh the country. Government expected to provide a:2,500,000i in silver coin in seven months , and measures were taken, with the assistance of the Bank, to make is. sues all over the country, for which proper persons were to be app•inted. There would be ne great difficulty in ending persons to decide what was title and what was false coin, and in giving a liberal con. struction to the whole operation of the measure. A great deal of French coin had lately come into the country, which the people, hearing of the new coin. l age, refused: but how was that to be prevented ? Could Government take all the coin that had been thrown in by smugglers? If this measure were post poned twelve months, the difficulties would be in. creased. Government he'd received much assistance from the Bank. There had been particular instances of distress, but less so than was believed. He thought that no man should be obliged to go more than fifteen miles to change his coin; and ingaiiies were making to adopt regulations for that purpose, which he ex pected would be found practicable. The new coinage would be six per cent. less in value than the old cuin age when first issued. He believed that when. the Inew coinage was issued, the tokens would be brought back to the Bank, which would sustain a loss. kle thought the question as to coining 20s. gold pieces deserved consideration. Our coinage in 1774 he believed the mast accurate of any coinage known. The Committee on the Coin, seeing all balances cal culated in gold, leafed to discredit the present coin in exchanges,, and recommended a silver coinage and a gold standard : not thinking it desirable to change •be denomination, which would also be very expen sive. The late Lord Liverpool calculated, when be rote his treads* in 1805, on 00,000,000 ; but be (Mr. W. Pole) could ant believe there was now any • tie ben te •trt • n thing kite . that %identity. An gonotri t had uid there was dot abole 46500,000 in gu;neas, exclusive of what the Bank bad. He should cer tajitly recommend the Committee on Coin to eonii Jer 'the subject of gold tlOs. pieces. Et would also he desirable t.i assimilate the Irish to the English currency. Coin representing the pound might be of much importance. He believed the whole operation could be carried through without great Mr. Ds GIDDY spoke in favour of the Bill, but; he thought no person should` be armed. with the power of refusing. at discretion, the silver coin at present in circulation. Ile very minli approwd of the intention of issuing twenty-s!Alling gold pieces. He thought Government was giving a pleuge of !heir intention of resuming a specie circulation on.the ex piration of the present Bank Restriction B:11. Mr. CROKER wished for an asi,imilation in the weights of gold, silver, *and copper, as at present they were different, and formed an anomaly discreditabl e to the country. He thought it would b e of advan tage to imitate the example of France with regard to our coinage. The revolution of France rendered it easy to cl.euge the coittage in that c'mntry, and cer tainly the cFalige herd titen productive of much be nefit; for klorr:, with much evil that revolution had been productive of much good. lie concluded with recommending the plan of decimal arrangements in the coin. Mr. BARING agreed wit.% the Hon. Gentleman who just sat down, tf►at the presen► was the best time for making a complete arrangement of the coin of the country. He was well satisfied that a coinage of gold pieces, at 20s. each, wonli be of great advan tage, but thought the decimal division of silver would be attended with a confusion to the lower orders of the people, which would more than counterbalance any advantage. He hoped the proposed division of the pound troyes of silver would not leave too great a value in the shilling, which might induce perms' to export it from the country. He would have pre- I'erred a division into 613 or 70, instead of one of 66 puts. They would, however, gain considerably in having a gold coin of 20s. and he hoped they might also have one of 10s. and one of ss. to supersede the division of 7s. which ever• seemed to him extremely awkward. He ridiculed the idea of having recourse to scientific principles in establishing weights and measures, in which he conceived nothing more was necessary than general assent. Mr. CROKER, in explanation, stated, that so far was the-decimal division of slyer from creating ary difficulties, that in Ireleud nuthing else was used for a consideralle time thou pieces of ten.pence and five pence. He begged leave to state a fact respecting the attempt to filet a metre in nature, which wa, that the Frunch, who boasted of having grin./ to so much trouble and expense to find one, had net pa tience to wait to here the arch of the merHian mea sured, but made a guess at the admeesurement, end sulsstituted what they called a provisional arch, e I►ich WAS the standird since of all the weights and tnea sores in the country. Mr. HAMM ERSLEY conceived a decimal di vision altogether unnecessary. Mr. J. P. GRANT thought they should not un derteke a new coinage while the restrictions on cash payments by the Bank continued. He thought the present time also unfit, as the expense must be very great. He lamented that silver should not continue to be the standard value in this country, particularly as it was the measure of value all over Europe. With respect to what Lord Liverpool said, that in every rich country gold must be the standard, and that in England there existed a passion for gold in prefe rence to silver, such an opinion must be received with great diffith:nce, by any person who considered that in this country all great payments must be made in paper as long as we continued our personal credit. Mr. MARRY AT observed, that when he was in France a few months ago, the Director General of the Mint gave him such an account of the number of English Guineas which had been melted down, that he was astonished any should still remain in the hands of the Bank, or any where else. He believed; while the Bank retained its present high credit, we should! be more atttached to paper than to gold. The Bill was then read a second time. Upon the question that it should be committed, Mr. GRENFELL rose, and expressed his appro bation of what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. W.Pole) with respect to the coinage of 20s. pieces instead of '2ls. At the same time he recommended that the expense of coinage should be taken out of the weight of the gold. Mr. W. POLE was sorry to say, that he totally differed from the Honourable Gentleman on the last point. He thought it would be attended with consi derable injustice, and ought not to be adopted. Sup-, pose, for example, he had to pay the Honourable Gentleman a rent of forty-four guineas and a helf, which contained a pound troy of standard gold : row if he could pay it in the following year in only a grain less, he would lessen the value of the Honour able Gentlemen's property. Mr: BANK ES hoped, that if the plan of his Hon. Friend could not be effected in the manner which he had proposed, some other way would be devised. If the pieces were made so exact, the moment the mar• ket price was lower, they would be malted down, and the expense of recoiniug them would be very consi. derable. Mr. HUSKISSON felt himself bound to mate cne fact in opposition to this measure. In every other nation of Europe, a brassage was allowed ;• but there was this peculiar circumstance in the coin of our country, that on the smallest diminution of its weight it ceased to have currency. He contended therefore that it would be more advantageous to maintain the coin in a state of perfection. Mr. WILLIAM SMITH lamented the extreme difficulty of preventing the loss which must fail on a vast number of persons when the new silver coinage appeared. He feared that the greater part of those persons were not in a situation to bear the loss; and although he was not prepared to propose a remedy, he hoped the subject would receive that consideration 'to which it was entitled. The bill was then ordered to be committed on Monday next. STAGE COACHEI4 The ATTORNEY GENERAL gave notice, that on blonday next he should move for leave to brink. in a bill to amend the act for the better preservatio% of the lives of his Majesty's subjects who travelled io stage coaches. Stveral genderueu had made com. ' seilijec p t u i ni a:i h d n a im s:th in toia ats. ininniacwat:°dilisd n o o l t ilin infi t ic i t ti s u t:flfeient pllflifUllent e of 7 . th : drivers, his principal object would be te ey e m a 7 trates power to itiffct corporal of gross neglect. A case had recently appeared ce: which two drivers were rennin. , a rice, andae,„ 4 accident having occurred , one of ' them was fi ne a s2 R l - 10 1 . This cum the propr iii i s e h t ro o rp r apc i o m eno n en t n e t. d tt i l , e i l t t e in li os p w a ini i n d ifsdpv a ti l k2srmh)ll necessary, e, to amend the law in the v o e u r t to ri renew etbest ri en his de d a r which he had suggested ; and he hoped re i ti.w:douhier i dgi l ailthp l si ceive the sanction of the House- (n eer , h air.) re• The House havin c r resolved itself into gem:see* of Supply, Mr. BANKES brought forward his p i rom ar i b sed les, tine on this subjec. He began by House of the efforts he had always made to save th e public money ; but that Hoese had at all times, o u t under every pressure, readily given money f ee t h e ,promotion of the Arts and of Literature. dowse Manuscripts, and the ToweleianM been purchased for the nation some years sr, e i t i. out any opposition on tbe.prahretseofotibinegsHopun:ed La,t that year a large sum was voted for a Nationa l Menu. ment to commemorate the immortal victory e t pi a terlon, although the country could hive done w i t h : out such a Monument. the House was never niggardly in promoting objects of National Glory. He wished new to call the at. tendon of the House to a single City, %%N e l l l uau. cient times had risen to the hig hest pitch of g l ory and splendour under the rule of one grea ti t ie ma ti n ou .-. ie The House had now to choose whether it was to 'convert to National purposes, the valuable antivities obtained from that City, whose splendour was long since gone. The only question then, if agreed in his general position, was, at what price should these Marbles be obtained ? He %Lee • ld put it to those Gentlemen of literature who heard whether it was not a matter of National impotence to cultivate articles of good taste, and prriave good models, as the best means of preserving the Arts, and preventing them from living tor/tiptoe- It was a total neglect of this very kind that gave ri.e to the most barbarous taste that prevailed in all mkt of art after the decline of the XO!Iltill Empire and during all the Gethic ages. [ Übe Flonourehle Gee tleman then alluded to the attacks which had Item made on Lord Elgin for the manna in eitich he oh. (eine.] those antiquities, and defended him on th a t point.] No complaint or remonstrance was made by the acting Ga,vernment of Athens at the timeener Lad tiny disapprobation been menifeued since that time, relative to the conduct of Lord Elgin. Indeed invectives had been•circulated against him in poe t and o.yfrlC ; yet the business had created no adverse sensation either among the Greeks or Turks, all of whom Waked upon the proceeding with perfect is. once. Such indifference did not certainty exist on ail occasions, because it appeared by the evidence of Lord Aberdeen, that great oppositin had been made by the country people in the Tread to the open ing of a temb supposed to have once contaiia4 the ashes of Patroclus or Ajax. But in the case in ques. tion there was no sensation in the city of Athens, the people of which rejoiced at the idea of so much ner.ey getting among them, instead of expressing any dis pleasure. Therefore there was no spoliation such as had taken place when Bonaparte pillaged the reposi tories of art in Italy and other countries. A notion prevailed that still those monuments ought not to have been taken away, and that they ought to be restored. Was it meant to say that they were public property? If so, to whom did they belong ? and if they were to be sent back, must not the expense of giving com pensation to the individual, and of sending them back, he greater than the present purchaseemoney now proposed to be paid for them ? Were they to be sent back to a people who neither wanted nor cared about them? Who disposed of them, and had been in the habit of destroying them? Was it not better, then, to preserve the whole of these valuable relics of ancient splendour 'from farther di lepidation ? He wished, however, to lay aside every consideration as to the motives for bringing those max bles away from Athens. Here they now were, and the question would be, whether they ouglit to be made the property of the nation ? As to the value of the works, that was a thing that depended much on oit• nion, and sometimes on caprice. As models of peo fectione however, they were by the bete artists cone dered as invaluable ; and they thought that the stun proposed to be given was farbelow their intrinsic value. .4'hey might altogether be considered as much more valuable than the Townleian Collection, for which twenty thousand pounds had been given. In Italy antiquities had been found in various parts by exca vations, but, in general, ilepeifeet and disfigured but here there was the siagular pr ivilege Allowed es of taking away the whole of a very b, au collec tion, and were they to be stilt hack again to a coun try which had allowed us to tat:it them and knewnot bow to value them ? Tire Honourable Member con cluded by moving—" the sum not exceeding £35,000 be appropriate:. for the purchase ui the 1.0 gist Marbles for his Majesty." Mr. CURW EN should oppose the motion of tig llon. Gentlemen, for lie leirnselt had allowed that no time could be more inconvenient for such a vote do at present. The Honourable Gentleman had grin upon a monument for the soldiers who fell at W 3" 100, and bad supported the metion for its erecen but even there he was of a daft-eat opinion Irons t'• Hon. Member, for no monuntent could cummeine rate the glory of those troops more durable awl grateful recollection of the people for whom they fought. He was no enemy to the protectien of Ge Fine Arts, but he did think that such a waste of pub lic money was a tel:er. of their decline. e el 0 The, Hon. Mr. WARD supported the mole,. his Honourable Friend, for the ver y reason that ex principle was not violated. He had the greatest re. spect for the modern Greeks, indeed they might be. considered almost as the descendants of individeat treat anon, but he would remind the House that these monuments, destruction, and not n f dwould removed,inthefesv namverb.eleinAswmemptEfrßoatEllye c a e s w o c f oe a t ur s l er i e s c ien o e o n a f t s a c i a l: o rYes f i: w ous the merits of the marbles as any man could be, but he_ opposed the motion on the gr ound of t illOWne=t•T cf 'Jt the transaction. What %%meld be tie feeling Greece it she ever resumed her former cation, who ere was a probability she intim from her cam° IL fill 1 the di Pi n this c and c 4 they bgoul Ii I I 1 I