Star. — London, England, 1816-02-24 00:00:00

Ilen je 1 . 4 gji w h at Ohm. in s e bad to me if tam' gr - V - • F. meo . . • so tio be abivli w for Kai ieirs. Ai not trouble t hem with any remarki upds bad (hit L at ,t's viaduct, after what the Meeting bis honourable eollearies with whdni regn 's ir concu r sed. He meant to have polkaed itiosai Trianon, which be wrsuld now defer suc cess of the r esent petition was kept/2. 0 0 km to which he alluded would pledge th e 1 o f Viesonioster to =attires for redden* our establishments similar to those that_eere oral w i t h the American at the commence; 'that 'angle which wowed their ultimate's*. k it an abstinence from the use of ankles' ta us fell, so as to deprive the Government ei • for carrying their projects into executoon.. g a ppear a disgraceful thing to see a window to avoid a tax, but such was , probably , the rile left of preserving our Constitution and 6. 1 of the influence of a standing army. Whed os doubt te present petition was known and Il e d that it would fail) be would sub. __ am ide°, which he bad hinted at, to dui - 13 4 k il * the last Resolution , for the Theo% treble ' w the Ilish Bailiff, wzrottreed, is was I,bllb. Hoar, OD the t h at he had osoat end to a requisition oo a former ow. • ' sisgitbraewtsed credit for his ready com. , the present. After some short addresies [ETstein g by the Moo BAUM himself, Mr. , sad hir. HUNT, die latter persoa persist **position, the resolution was aegauved. I miIIAMENTARr PROCERDINGt HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY II& s io , tact at ten o'clock in the morning. and proceeded l ope. The Judges were in attendance to bear a bun the Court of Common Pleas, respecting tbe if a *c ow Bill was road a third time and passed. Bidow's Divorce Bill was read a brat time, and am it , ail a second time this day fortnight. ° goal Owns Martial Bill, and a Private Big, were *fres the House of COMMMOSIS by Mr. BILOODKX, 'M e sa; aad ether Members. and read a first time. fin, ( re m the War OfEce, presented the Accounts Ilitsbliseseou from 1753 to 1795, whack were or. • kis do Table, and to bit printed. igatlris of BUCKINGHAM observed, s di e / b d . e demas year moved for by his Noble Friend (Lard ) b i d p o t yet been presented, altheeph they 1.4 hes* the ether Ham ant! primed. TEZATIIS. Sande it of LANSDOWN, in per:nonce of gt*, sdrerted to the information which it bos pea sant to more for, in order to elucidate plate connected with the Treaties which dsty wady bad under discussion. Ho alluded o l iettearly to the subsidiary Trestle for pro. • s coss id e rable German force in aid of the causer In what wastatod by the Wnsisters this subject in the et une of last Session, Melly alledged, that the Wide expense of Moils was to be at the rats of ell. 2s. os. In, Ye easy appearby ed the sioanneats oft AW i L !Mt two pg pea t dek M O W ' , cedshilstisns, frith the Governments -of mom eel Sranswick Lunebu rg!). under which irioit tom incurred for every miss wet tope in by Opewanments, was to be defrayed by oriwk ri t i ot migiely &his t bat gee* te Ow". rid paid fee in the same way. ire trust s est would stipple that in saying this, be Nene slightest reflection on the uoops of those to rbich were employed by us ; on the contrary, iplastry and bravery were deserving of every Inks His object was to protest against this se of concealing from Parliament 'acts with itatbey ought to be made acquainted, he being iidtoassume, that Ministers, at the time they tithe whole expense of these troops to be W ain iel I. 2s. per man, must have iutown of 'circumstances, whatever they were, that would kcanse of our incurring that further expense, a was the subject of the twn Treaties subse t', catered into. A similar thing happened its 66011 before last, when, without the knowledge diament, a Treaty was concluded for main tbe Russian Navy then in ow ports, by which pease of it 500,000 was incurred. The Treaty ant communicated to Parliament until long after di, and to this day the motives of it remained un lined. He strongly deprecated this kind of cots sent, which had beee so strongly also exempli. in the present instance, in the Tureaties concluded I Hanover and Bruriswick Lunebargh, in direct todiction to the assurances of Ministers to inged i— (hi 1 .61. f re , ,4011 .at, ws l wet on) as to the amount of expense to be incurseek— anodier question also, the petunias, indemnity k paid by France, he wished to bring "Vas' before the H ouse , w he t h er the MIS pant on of of it, and the issues out of those setts, were red to the regular eonstitutional eontroui of lament? His Lordship concluded by moving at account of the aunts paid to or by the Govern. of Hanover and Brunswick Lunebvrgh, OR of the Treaties concluded st Paris in .August ; anti also an account of the sums paid by the Government, on account of the pecuniary in. to be laid by France, to whom paid, and she , made thersout. i eIBATHURST said, be had no intention of g the motions; and he could mute the Noble that when be laid the Papers on the Table, old explain the =byes of the Treaties with and Brunswick Leoeburgh in a mimes, mold be perfectly satisfacwy. Eail of LAUDERDALE stineotpd. that country, in addition to the expense mentioned by. Roble Friend, was also charged with the pay of Pensions to the Hanoverian troops, the wt. of Officers, &c. and that this item should be in the motion. .Was dons , and the motions thus amended • 6 agree d W.—Adjourned tiff Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. C euel LOFTUS presented a Pet Was from Great Yu: [ aik tibicagainst the Putcrty Tax, which was ordered to lie on Ile Sheriffs front the City of London, appeared at 111. Bar u a Petition from the Lord Mayor and Common Council, t es the rtimed erection of a new bridge across the Wee? at bout/sick. a a ___ • • • BYNO resealed a Petition from the inhabitant House. , pied Pam 'luta of the P a r is h o f St. Luke's, Murtafellffe i a11 55 3 persons aga i nst t h e renewa l o f t h e Propene r ase in th e most liked period or wider any modiSmoson —1 ". Th• Hoo. *mime iii,c' preecmcg a iimilar Peados . lima - las iabibisige — '' 'hie its.* et st. 1V1g7, - ItAmeres,... were ibeds swami le* st ` mall •,.. • • - . - The Navel Parts Metal OM was tonstiskted, the Report 66 47 19. 5:tit 0 11161 nod a Ird thie f:ol i t 'a t:acds of Port wham. Cripplepte, • aid • • gains: the rearwal of tb. Propeny_ l'an. tilr W.CURTIo preaMted Ander peados. from the Wards of Cmdleinek gad Pardepisa 'Wittiest. - Ma 0. I,ANOTOIM pesseesed a ?olden from the City of beta spigot de 'mewl of the Property Tu. t t i. u" iris was moved far 1• 7 1= z zverie4l:athrilarTent lb 84 M K •• antiessuery, who siembis eisedon ei had ac e ctr i ta t i l l die of the Chiltern Hundreds. The Pillory Mention BM was read a lint time and ordered -to horsed a second time that day as'enigist. As Aolollllt We, peessated of ail anitmemations which bad uses made b the Balsam of the Board of Eveise data tlie Ist January 6 NI S, with the OM. of such ausmentatious. Oesenl HA& moved for various retort eonnecte I with the illfaillettatlS laid, sad the lines imposed, for illicit distillation bs trsilando—Orslirsd: The ikaitagese Bills Bill, sod the Malt Duty Bill, were save- Nay owls third ape tad pawed. 1 AORICULTUNAL MOMS& Mr. H. SUMNER said, that consideting the anxiety *bids must necessarily be felt throughout the country as to the nature of the relief which it might be in contemplation to propose for thcAgri cnktiralista, and especially in reference to the notice. already given by an Honourable Member, whose knowledge and experience on that subject. were much looked up to, he hoped he should not be regarded as taking an unparliagrentery course in requesting from that Honourable Gentleman some gener.il outline of the proposition which he intended to submit to the House. Mr s WESTERN replied, that he should be most happy to comply with the request of the Honourable Member if he thought that by SJ doing he should be acting consistently with the very ns!ture of the motion of which be had ven notice. That m-ion was Peer *Committee of t he whole House to take Lao consi. 'deration the distressed state of the agriculture of the country, and to devise some means far relieving it from the perilous and unexamp!ed difficulties under which it now laboured. If, therefore, he were to anticipate the object of that 'notion by any prema ture statement, he should defeat it altogether, as his sole view was to elicit the collective wisdom and in formation of the House. For himself, he certainly had come plans which he intended to propose, as likely to be productive of the desired relief, but he could not think it expedient to state them at the pre sent moment.—(Harr hew.) Sir C. BURAELL presented a Petition from certain Land-holders, Land-owners, ice. of the. town of Steyntng, in Sussex, complaining of the agricul. tural distresses. The Hon. Baronet was about to mad the Petition, when The SPEAKER reminded him, that k was the duty of a Member to state the substance merely, and the duty of the Clerk at the table to read it verbatim and at length. It would be an entire departure froth Parliamentary practice, for any Honourable Member to need the whole of a Petition, thuugli he was ctn. Way at liberty to read particular parts. With that steplanatiou the Hun. Member would nut be at a loss sfs to what he WM to do. Sir C. BURRELL proceeded to state the sub. stance of the Petition, observing, that among many Other topics of grievances, the Petitiont•ri particularly alluded to the Impossibility of paying the Poore out of the produce of their farms. they also referred to the great relief which they would experience fibm the repeat of the War Malt Duty. After a few words from Mr. W. KEENE, the Pefi. lion was brought up, and ordered to lie on the table. witi, c44 the r,, we. e enflop reP. A ril !Parilo t ttltioa tf • th em , th e rt ..: of at,Z t a w ezert;... SIR THOU Al PICTON. Mr. JONES observed, that as he saw a Right Honourable Gentleman in his place, who n is Cnair. man of the Committee for superintending the erec• lion of National Monuments, he wished to know whether only 3,000 guineas were to be the sum al. lotted to the erection of a monument to the memory of Sir Thomas Picton I He certainly thought that sum too small, and the more so, as he had been in St. Paul's that day, and observed several Monuments erected to the memory of Post Captains in the Navy,' some of which had cost four, and even £6,000. , Mr. LONG replied, that no person could be more sensible of the eminent services of Sir Thomas Pic ton than be was; but as to the sum allotted for his Monument, that did not fall within his department, it being altogether at the discretion of the Lords of the lreasury. He could state, however, that the sum certainly was to be 3,000 guineas. 1-1 e was not aware that any of the Monuments in St. Paul's, erected to the memory of Post Captains in the Navy, had cost a larger sum, though it might possibly be the fact. But it should be remembered, that during the war, the difficulty of procuring the marble usually employed for Monuments was so great, and the expense so much larger, that what then cost as much as six guineas per foot, was now reduced to I somewhat about two . guineas. A less sum, therefore, would be necessary for a Monument of equal mag nitude. Mr. JONES said. that ithe answer of the Right Honourable Gentleman was not satisfactory to him; and be was proceeding to make some further re marks when The SPEAKER reminded him, that as be had not announced his intention of concluding with a Motion, there was then no question before the House. Mr. JONES apologised for the irregularity, of which be was not aware, being only a young Mem' her of that House, and stated that he should feel it his duty, on some future occasion, to bring forward a motion upft the subject, unless he was anticipated by th e Right Honourable Gentleman, or some other Member. Sir T. ACKLAND presented a Petition from certain Gentlemen, proprietors and cultivators of land, residing in the vicinity of Exeter, complaining of the distress which they felt. He stated that there was one circumstance connected with the Petition, which was peculiarly worthy of the attention of the House. it was signed by about 500 of the princi pal yeomanry of the county, that highly respectable ' and most important class of the Community. Though they were not numerous, therefore, they might fairly be considered as speaking the sense of that part of the country. The Honourable 'Baronet stated the substance of the Petititin, which referred to the ex- MOM distress felt by the agricultural interest, which was so great indeed , that they were compelled to draw upon. their capitals in order to support Them hear)—and that, they would resort to • • other means fir that support, if there were-any pro fiL4ble mode of employing-their money: •They.con: 'eluded their Petition, not by calling fur • any specific relief, but by thin in . themselves on the • feelings and sympathy of the Reese, and relying upon their judg ment for the best means of affording it. Upon the Petition being re id by the Clerk. Mr. BROUGHAM expressed his surprise that the Honourable 8 ironet, in stating the substance of the Petition, had omitted to mention the Property Tax, as one of the principal causes of the distress complained of. He was led to conclude that the Petition was merely a general and vague application to the Legislature for relief, without pointing out any mean* by which the relief could be obtained. It appeared, however, from the reading of the Pet h that the omission was in the Honourable Baronet himself, and not in the Petition. The Petitioners themselves were aware of the source of their suffer ings, though the Honourable Baronet did not think fit to touch upon it. In poiat of fact, therefore, the Petition was as much a Petition against the Property Tax, .as it was for relief generally. Sir I'. ACKLAND said, he wondered the Ho nourable. and Learned Gentleman did not express Another part 6f his surprise, that any one could be so devoid of common sense as to come down to that House with a Petition, of which he wished a part to be concealed, and yet desire it to be read at length by the, Clerk, in order to expose his own inadequacy —(Hearasear).—lf the Honourable Gentleman had only dune blip the honour to attend to the general, way in which he opened the matter of the Petition, he would how had no occasion to make the remarks which he had so precipitately offered to' the House —(Hear, hear, hear)—aad if he would only allow him to go through the other Petition which he held in his hand, he would see from his conduct, whether he had any design to suppress or omit any thing ma terially connected with their object. , -(Hear.) Mr. BROUGHAM disclaimed any idea of iris pitting to the Honourable Baronet the motives which he seemed to imagine was his intention. He only meant to express his surprise at finding the contents of the Petiticn differ so materially in a substantive part of it, from what might have been expected from tae manner in which it had been opened by the Ha nourable Baronet. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that the Petition could be considered as a Pe tion against the Property Tax. After k few observations from Lord BINNING, Mr. W. Sacred, and Mr. PRIGTON, the Petition was or. &red to lie on the Table. Sir T. ACKLAND presented a simitir Petition from Honiton, which was'ordered th lie nn the tible. Sir T. ACKLAND presented several other Petitions from different parts of Devongaire, which, after a repetition from Mr. Pa as•roN of ',is former statemen:s, respecting die distressed state of the Lamleed ili•erest, were ordered to lie on the table. The Batik Luan Eta went through a Committee, the Report of which was ordered to be received on 2vl.,tiday. • Mr. BROCDEN brought up the Report of the Clergy Re sidence The Amendments were agreed to, and the• Bill was or4ere.l to be r.:41 a third time on Monday. The second readins of the Crown Lands Bill was postponed to Monday. On the Motion of Mr. WISTIIN, an account was ordered to he laid before the Hoes* Grail Executions issued by the Sheriffs of Eugland against Bodies and Good. &ninths years ISIS, 1514, mad id IL, and from January last. ' TUB 11.01/11 _ CI A_NI QUER hit notice, rose to move •• J'iAio's - -Petition be referred to a Cunsinittee. It well known tu . the House, that during Lewd Elgin's mission to Constantinople, he procured, at great trouble, and At a great expense, the collection of an cient sculpture which had since been transpntted to this country. AU who knew that*Noble Lord were also aware that it was his intention to undertake this task gratuitously towards this county, had .not cir cumstances which it was unnecessary to mention, prevented him. The collection was too well known to most of the Honourable Members who heard him, to make it necessary for him to enter into any de scription of its merits. It would be sufficient for him to say, that the most distinguished judges of the works of ancient art spoke of it as in many respects distinguished from any other in Europe; and that it contained a mass of information, character, and prin ciple, calculated for the improvement of modern art, which perhaps the united collections of Europe could hardly furnish. The Committee would have the power of calling on every one competent to estimate the value of this collection, for his opinion. He readily admitted, that, under the circumstances of the times, it was desirable to avoid any great public ex pense ; nevertheless, it should be considered that if the present opportunity were missed it could scarcely from its nature be recovered. if the British Parlia ment refused to purchase this collection, it would, in all probability, be dispersed, or be disposed of. to some potentate abroad. Either part of the alterna tive would be to be re gre tted ; and particularly the former, which would be a great public misfortupe. The House had formerly the means of putting the tnuntry in possession of a fine collection of a similar nature (the TOwnleian Maehksp he trusted they weal add to •it that now Ware& .In. considering the vicissitudes of human affairs, it certainly did 'up-1 11 pear extraordinary that the works of Phidias should' become the propecty of a native of Caledonia. To' , the artists of this country, access iii them as the means of study would he inealuablei: for it was notorious, that of all the fine arts, Sculpture was that in which .we had made the least progress. On these . pounds, he should move to refer Lord glows Petit ion to the consideration of a select Committee, which Commit tee should hive power to adjourn from place tO place, for the purpose of inspection, and should be instructed tq report whether, in their opinions his Lordship's collection ought to be plumbs:bed for the public; and if so, what price it would be reasonable for Parliament to allow. Lord OSSULSTONE observed, it was a question of importance for the House to consider, 'hillier an Ambassador resident in a foreign country should,.nse the influence which his situation' gave him. to pro , cure the property of that country. and then convert it, to his own advantage ? The Nobte Lord obtained these Marbles, not from any personal respect towards himself, but because be represented a great and powerful country. • He hoped that the House would go no farther than to reimburse the Noble Lord for the expense, to which he had beeeput.. Mr. BANKES pig!, that the Committee would. hive to ascertain the mode in which the Noble Lord obtained these Marbles, the expense to which he had 'liven put with AOKI to them, and what degree of vested right L tte ra public already possessed in them. 'The Noble could certainly not be cionsidel..f as an independent traveller, who had a right to dispeau of, at any price that he could obtain ' whatever he might have collected in the course of his researchel. • He had availed himself of his character as an Eng lish Ambassador to facilitate the acquisition. He confessed, that, instead of leaving the question alto gether to Parliament. he should have thought it bet ter had the Noble Lord fired the rice be required. Under all the circumstances, however, although he was persuaded that the Committee would have as inconvenient and a laborious ink. and although he felt very sensibly the difficulty of the times, yet the collection was one of such acknowledged value, one so unrivalled in its nature, and which it was so much to be desired that the puillie should possess, chic he could not hesitate to entertain the proposition made by his Right Hon Friend. Mr. A I3ERCROMBIE considered the difficulties which would attend the Cninrateemere not so great as the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Bankes) had re. presented. With respect to the utmost ♦alue of these articles, that war not the principle upon which the. Committee would lfave to proceed. One part of Ibex ingisity would certainly include the actual expeu.!‘e incurred ip procuring these Marbles and brialgitt them to this country. Generally, he believed there could be but one opinion upon this subject, and that there would be no opposition to the appointment of a Committee. . Mr. GORDON thought it his duty, its answer to the remark just made, that there cou'd be but n.! opinion on the subject, to say, that, in his judgment, the present distress )1 the counccy did not call ioen Parliament to make a purchase of a set of Itlni,leg. He submitted it to the consideration of ele CI •ticel. for of the Exchequer, whether it would not, und,r the present circumstances of the country, be advibable to postpone this question until the country had time to recover from its difficulties Mr. TIERNEY agreed with other Gentlemen, that it was desirable these works should not be scat• tesed over the face of the country. and much more that they should not leave it. If, however, they were to be considered the property of Lord Elgin, as a pri vate individual, this was not the time for Parliament making the purchase. But if they were procured by him in the capacity of Ambass %dor, an. the Committee appointed were to inquire the expenses incurred by him in procuring this collection, to that extent he ( Mr. Tierney) was ready to go. Though Lord Elgin might have gone to Mr. Perceval upon this subject, and Mr. Perceval had offered him a sum of money. which the former refused, still he did t think this the juncture when that offer should be re pelted. He did not perceive what were the lune-, tions which the Committee would have to discharge.. Whatever should be done lie could not approve of encouragement to Ambassadors in laying out sue money of the country in making collections of this description. It was not, :howev er, the moment for purchasing collections at the_ ex pense of the country, however desirable, for there were many things which he (Mr. Tierney) woild like to have, but he was sorry that 1* had not the means of procuring them. Mr. C. LONG spoke in favour of the appoint mert of the Committee, as he was sure there was not a collection in the country so well adapted fur the en . %a:Assess guy is V 1 asset sue •is Mr. PRES'T'ON Contended this application came to Parliament at a most ungracious time, when the country was involved in unexampled distress. Lord Elgin ought to have come boldly forward and have made them a present ton the country. Mr. BROUGHAM was sorry that in the dis charge of.his duty he must object to the appointment of a Committee. He participated, at the same time, in feeling with other Honourable Members it was extremely desirable that such a collection should be in the possession of this country. It was very ratio• nal that we should wish to indulge ourselves in this sort of gratification, but he was under the necessity of looking to the other side of the question. This country had not the money to spend. As a nation we found ourselves precisely in the situation of an individual who might see many things he would like to purchase, and which he might purchase too at a cheap price, but he cannot indulge himself with the article, fot upon asking himself the question he finds that he has no money in his pocket Perhaps this collection might cost about forty or fifty thousand pounds, but even if it would cost only ten or twelve thousand pounds, this was 'not the time to press ex penses upon the public. This was a time when we were called upon to cut down expenses of every de scription. If it could be afforded consideration was due to the present state of Midshipmen, and also of half-pay Officers, retiring upon what was not equal to their support, but he believed the only answer which could be returned was, that in the present state of the country we were not able to afford them any further assistance, still if we could not give them Ito bread," we ought not to indulge_ ourselves in the I purchase of go stones." On these gonads he felt it ha duty to object to the present motion, and there fore he should conclude by moving the previous question; Sir J. NEWPORT objected to the appointment of a Committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did nut see clearly the ground of objection, or how this question could have been taken up more properly at another time. Mr. BABINGTON said this collectiOn had been procured by a spoliation which .oug!ir. not to list ve taken place. The House would recollect that 'there , , I*as a jealous eye looking upon us, and a nelgll DOOT.• ing nation would be very glad if they found t.s flip ping. In his opinion, it'ought to be a special chat to the Committee to take Cafe of out narionalhun, us. After a—few words (ran . Mr. Croier and Mr. Preston, the motion for the previous question WAS put and .negatived without a division, and the ori ginal mottocloe the. appoiotment of a Cyr:mime was agreed . lo4ar.si• Mr. Banks, Sir George eier Mn;• Homer,: Ctoket, T. Ackland, &c. Were 'appointestMernbers of the. same. Lord PALMERSTON presented certain Returns of Men horse : itnA., mustered in Garribons abroad, which ,werq ordered to lie c , ri the table. u Pore in Packers 13:U Was read a first time, 'and =Acted to be read a Second time on Nlonday. The (*hal Orders of the DAy were Olen dibikhr,cd Of / and the house adjourned to Monday: •