Star. — London, England, 1811-05-07 00:00:00

1 1 1 1 PP PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY i. The Foreign Ministers' Salary Bill, and the London Dock Dill, together with a great number of private Bills, received the Royal Assent by Commission. The Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor, Lord Aylesford„ and Lord Walsingham. The Lou Cu A NCLI.I.OII gave intimation of his purpose to call the attention of the House to the question of the Roxburgh Peerage, either to-morrow or Vs'ednesday next. Mr. l.eckey, from the Treasury, presented, according to Order, returns of the average prices of Malt and Barley. Lord HOLLAND presented a Petition from the Muter Calico Printers, which was ordered to lie on the table. Lord SELKIRK, Lord Hattowicx x, and Lord MORTON seve rally presented Petitions from various parts of the country against the Distillery Bill. Lord Osamu Lee gave notice, that he should to-morrow move the second reading of the Bill for the more effectually abolishing the Slave Trade. GENERAL GRAHAM'. The LORD CisericeLLoa acquainted their Lordships that be had received a Lester from General Gketinst, in reply to the Vote of the Thanks of that House, transmitted to him, and ex pressive of the sense he entertained of that high honour. The Letter being then read, was ordered to be entered on the Journals. DISTILLERY BILL. The Order of the Day being read for the second reading of the Distillery Bill, The Earl of SUFFOLK rose, and, after stating the practical experience which he had acquired in agricultural pursuits, subsequent to the- renunciation Of his original military profession, declared himself hostile to the Bill. Lord BAT HURsT expatiated on the expediency, propriety, and fairness of the measure, which was supported by authentic testimonies, deduced from the distillers both of Scotland and England. In the for mer country it was proved that from one hundred gallons of wash only eighteen gallons and a half of spirits were produced. It tended not to any injurious monopoly, but to a fair and open competition in the markets. The measure had an evident tendency to prevent or discontinue in a time of scarcity the exor bitant price of grain. Lord ABERDEEN opposed the object and prin ciple of the Bill. Mr. Hume had wisely observed, that the pursuits and the study of agriculture pecu liarly required reflection and experience, whereas the present Bill appeared to be the mere result of a per verse and bigotted obstinacy. Lord ROSSLYN argued on the same side, ob serving, that by the Bill it was intended to drain from the industrious cultivator of the land at home, four hundred and fifty thousand pounds, in favour of the growers of sugar in the West Indies. Lord DARNLEY Was decidedly and completely hostile to the Bill, which he considered as unfair and injurious to the landed interest. Lord HARDWICKE opposed the Bill, and for tified,his argument with instances adduced from the resent state of agriculture and the growth of corn in Norfolk and in Ireland, and concluded with moving as an Amendment, That the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Lord WESTMORLAND supported the Bill, ob. serving, that all the arguments which he had heard - on the other side were almost ridiculous. It was clearly ascertained that the bailey consumed in the distilleries was only one-sixteenth of the general growth or produce ; and what injurious effect could result from such a proportion ? Much had been said about the Aepreciation of paper money, and the scar city of specie ; hut it was clearly the tendency of the present Bill to lessen that inconvenience. He was well aware that it was the policy generally of a country to enforce a growth of corn sufficient for its own consumption ; but the present was not a time for making rash experiments. His Lordship concluded with giving his hearty support to the Bill. Lord HOLLAND had bestowed the most dill. gent attention on the subject before their Lordships, and could not withhold from it his warm assent. — What appeared to him decisively in favour of the Bill was, that the measure of fair competition which it held out was alike objected to by the grower kof corn and of sugar. It had been asserted that the Corn Laws were founded on improper principles. He would not dispute that point ; but he would maintain that it was neither politic nor equitable to admit our enemies to advantages from which British subjects in our colonies were to be excluded. That indeed was a proposition so unnatural, that to quote a passage from one of the best of our Comedies, he would only observe, is the less that is said about it the better."— Much ingenuity and illumination had been displayed by Scotchmen, but they had by no means convinced him or altered his opinion. He was willing, on behalf of the Sugar Growers, to make this compromise, to withhold both corn and sugar from the distilleries at home, and let West India spirits only be consumed. He concluded with voting for the Bill. Lord LAUDERDALE opposed the Bill, and denied the correctness of Lord Bathurst's statement respecting the produce of spit it from wash in Scotland. His Lordship produced evidence that from 20i to 22 gallons were produced from 100 gallons of wash.— His Lordship gave the Bill his decided negative. Lord LIVERPOOL said the question involved first, whether the Bill itself was 1 'Paris &ern similar interference. His Lordship con- those cirtnmstenees, which pressed upon his mind, to pay on demand termite shillings of h t , r4 so as to induce him to propose the Resolutions, which coined money. Now, as Bank notes of that valu e eluded by opposing the Bill. The question was then called for, when the amend- appeared to him as just and proper to be adopted by purport to represent gold and silver, and as eo ment moved by Lord Hardwicke was put; and the House. He was aware that the subject was one real value of a note of 111.1 t description, from the afterwards tho question that the word now, as in the to which many other Gentlemen were snore tom pe- high price of the gold bullion above the price settled original motion, do stand in the place of Mat day six tent than himself ; that it had, in fact, been much by the Melt, is of course depreciated in value, the months; on which the House divided, and the bar wa s better examined by them ; but, however, having con- real quantity of precious metal which it will purchase cleared. On our return we found that the Contents ceived it his duty to give the subject much attention, is IS& LW. anti It Ito longer represents the q„ int i ty were 36, Non-contents 56. Of course the Bill was he had come prepared with a general view of it, of gold.and saver, to the value of 20s. He was pre. lost by a majority of 20.—Adjourned. ' which he should endeavour to compress, as much as pared broadly to state and argue, that it had deviated possible. In so doing he was afraid he should be from its original value to that extent. He did not ex. HOUSE OF COMMONS. obliged to trespass longer on the patience of the Co - p e c t that it would be controverted in this House, wh en mittee than he should wish to do. Among the vari - he assum e d as fact, that the legal standard of th e The Deputy Usher of the Black Rod summoned this House to the House of Peers, to hear the Royal Assent to certain Bills. i ous opinions which were to be found in the discus- realm was of great political importance to the interests on th e ir return, the SPEAKER informed the House, that the sions when similar questions were agitated, it would of the country ; that could not be denied. No doubt assent had been given, by Commission, to several Bills of a pub- be seen upon reference, that these opinions had been there were periods in otr history when many of °erste Pic and private nature. carried to the most violent extremes on both sides.— vereigns had imitated the conduct of arbitrary hie. The Report of the Committee of Supply was brought up, and the Resolutions for granting a sum of C 4 0,0e0 for the Repairs of Some had argued that the causes of the depreciation n archs ; and to su pp ort forei g n wars, had deb ased the - Highways in scoiland, and of other sums fur public uses, were was to be attributed to the issue of paper currency value of the coin of the realm ; and Parliament very agreed to. alone, instead of that metallic substance, which, ac- wisely had judged it expedient to urge them to The House went through a Committee on the Irish Cots- cording to the law of the realm, was the only medium restore it to its lawful value, and it was so restored inertial Credit Bill. Report to-morrow. recognized The Irish Embezzlement Bill was read a second time , and . On the other hand, there were persons, shortly afterwards. The last operation of that kind committed for Thursday. and those of experience and talents too, who proposed was in the reign of Queen Elizabeth ; since then st . The kith Lunatics Bill was read a third time, and passed. to revert to the ancient axiom, prior to the institution standard had been made, both with respect to the ewe. "The Pauper Lunatic Bill was read a second time, and coin- of the Bank of England, and that the remedy was ness as well as weight of the metal, which standard re. milted for Wednesday. only to be found in the circulation of the standard mained unaltered. All the Statutes upondie suojeei TIIREE CRANES BRIDGE metal. To avoid these two extremes, he should Avo- invariably provide, that no legal tender in payment Mr. SUMNER moved the third reading of the Bill for build- u se to steer the middle course, which was, mei to 1 shall be made except in the curient coin with reteron c e ing a Bridge near the Three Cranes Wharf, at the bottom of . Queen-street, Cheapside. • admit and to adopt either of these extremes ; for, .to the standard ; and by the 1+t1; of the King no tender sir W. CURTIS opposed the Bill, on the ground that there with a view to the preservation of that currency, the above 025 shall be good, sinless reference to t h e man. are already three bridges on the River near the metropolis; that only mean was to found its basis upon the precious dard as fixed at the blint shall be made ; thet was the the consequence of another bridge so near that of London, ! metal, originally the only circulating medium of the law upon the subject, not only to be found in the Sta would affect the navigation of the River by causing too great • . kingdom. There was another opinion which had gone . cute Book, but in the various Proclamations, and in current ; and that in pontnaof necessity it was not called for b y , the public. forth ' erroneous enough, and that opinion was enter - the Rolls of Parliament. It had heen the policy con. Sir CHARLES PRICE aim opposed it. I tained by many persons who thought that the only standy and successfully urged. In the Journals Sir THOMAS TURTON supported it. as belt)* greatly bane- , remedy was not to extend the paper issues, but to do the House in 1718, the 4th of George I. was a resolu. ficial to the public, on account of the very great _inconvenience it away altogether. There were persons who enter- tion to this effect," that the House wiul I notalter the which is at present experienced in consequence of the narrow approaches to London BridLe. tained a jealousy and suspicion of the Bank of Eng - Stand ard of the realm . either as to wei g ht, fineness, Mr. MARRYNT I was of the same opinion with the last I land, as an Institution. (Hear, hear.) Wh oever felt or denomination, in respect to gold and silver coin," Speaker; and stated various stoppages which had occurred greatly I a proper respect f or hi s countr y, co u ld never agree This Resolution was sent to the Lords, andeliat House to the inconvenience, not only of public business, but of pt irate Kith those who held such doctrines; for the origin concurred with them. But it had been said else . where, that there was no such thing as standard, that Gentlen:en. He remarked upon the delapidated state of Lon don Bridge, and observed, that in Paris, which boa s ts o f very • of that Institution was highly praise-worthy, connect little trade, nine bridges are upon the river of that metropolis. ed , as it was then, with the libe r t i e s o f the country.— it was unknown to the law. At one time it was de. Mr. SUMNER observed, that the Bill, as had been proved I When therefore the Bank was first established, it was nied that it was departing from the usage of the land before the Committee, was highly necessary, on the ground one of the acts of that Government, which, in addi- to issue Bank notes ; but having been driven from stated by the Gentlemen who had preceded him; that in order to shew its necessity, evidence was called from among the see- fion to the many benefits derived by the Restoration, that position, the advocates in favour of restriction emus of the Corporntion of the City of London, who stated, that was commendable in the eyes of every well-wisher to contefided for the doctrine of no standard and it was so great has been the pressure of business, and so narrow the his country. No man who had ever attended to the curious to see of what description those persons were passes, that stoppages of carriages of all sorts have occurred for distresses which, in various periods of our history, who contended in support of this docrine, founded, as it the space of three or four hours. 'I he Bill was then read a third time, and paned, and ordered war has produced, could doubt for a moment that was, in error. Those persons were not visionary the. to the Lords. from the Bank of England not only the Government, orists, but practical men, such as merchants, banktrs, but the commercial credit of the country had receiv- and men having held official situations, all concurring ed the most important assistance. (Hear, hear.) It in opinion, that there was no such thing as standard. was to that assistance so beneficially rendered, that, The first of those Gentlemsn to whose opinions he in the prospect of similar exertions and efforts on the could advert, was a man eminent for talents.—ln the Continent, we could only look for support. The in- publication be had sent forth, he was puzzled to find terests of the Bank of England, therefore, formed a out what was meant by standard ; at last it occurred great part of the public credit of the State. In say- to him what it was, and he hit upon this:—" that a ing thus much, he wished to guard against mistake unit mast be found to make it; that the interest of in any opinions which he might utter as to the view LESS 6s. Bd. S per cents. being £l, and that interest, which he entertained upon the subject, and the means of coin se, paid in a bank note, it was money on ac of remedying the evil, which were pretty generally count." This speculative standard was followed by admitted. The only means which could be effectu. another still mere remarkable, emanating not from a ally resorted to was, to restore things to what they theorist, but from a practical man ; and this Gentle. were previous to 1797, when the restriction was first man had called in, to aid in his fanciful work, all tie laid upon the Bank payments. In so doing, we must ingenuity and metaphysical reasoning he could mei. proceed by slow and gradual degrees; and it was a ter, to convince the public, that a bank note is ad. restoration which no man could deny, it would have stract currency." Another author broached a doctrine been better for the country if it had not been departed still more observable ; for he says, that " standard is from, and which nothing could have authorised but neither gold nor silver, but something set up in the the most urgent necessity. He wished to 'guard imagination to be regulated by public opinion." From against a prejudice which had greatly obtained these abstract and curious opinions, Mr. H. would ap. out of doors, merely that those who proposed to re- peal to the law of the countryt• and he hoped heshould store things to their ancient order, were a set of theo- hear from some of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who rigs who very readily promulged ideas which could were taking notes, all these wild theories disclaimed ; never be put in practice. With respect to the theo. that they would not advert to any standard but th at ry which he meant'to inculcate, he had to observe, recognised by the law. These theorists gave an in that it was the theory of those persons who, in the portant admission of the fact, that a departure had best of times, founded the Bank of England ; and if taken place from the standard value. Before he left it were a theory to believe what would prove a prat- that part of the subject, he would refer to the third Re. tical good, if adopted, it was one built upon metal- solution of his Right Hon. Friend, premising; that I.:s lic foundation. In that opinion he was not singular; (Mr. Homer's) Resolutions stated, " that the actu for he had the satisfaction of knowing, that he was value of aRI note is less than the nominal value:' subscribing to the doctrines held by most of the prat- In answer to that propositiorn for it must be taken tical Statesmen of which this country had boasted ; an answer, his Right Hon. Friend had said, " That who had given to them all the consideration and Bank-notes were held to be equivalent to the legal eels weight necessary to come to a right conclusion.— of the realm, in all pecuniary transactions to whiO. They bad taken the opinions of the best practical such coin is legal.y applicable." In the Amendments Merchants and Bankers, and of those most compe- made to these Resolutions, it was stated, " That pr tent to give information ;—and his - Majesty's Mini- missory notes of the Bank of England were held is sters must have had but an imperfect idea of what public estimation, and generally accepted." In the was conducive to the interests of the State if they had Resolutions thus proposed, his Right Hon. Dien& neglected so to do. The most important, essential, had not denied the statement set forth by him, name. and indispensable information was to be derived from ly, that the value of aRI note is less than it ought all classes of practical men engaged in commercial to be. He was prepared wholly to deny the assertion pursuits. If, therefore, it should be charged against of his Right Honourable Friend, that banknoteswere him that he had entered into the consideration of the held in public estimation ; for he must contend, that subject with opinions preconceived, to that charge he public estimation was quite another way ; and, were was liable ; and, indeed, he believed every Member it not for a notion of law, which most people had gat, of the Bullion Committee might be charged with the there would be found in every market in the country, same opinions. With respect to the Resolutions of lin every shop almost, a distinct circulating medium his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Vansittart), it between the Bank-of-England note and specie. It would have been a great convenience to him if he 1 was the general opinion that the King's coin had to. could have guessed which of the opinions he (Mr. tally disappeared, and there was no money but that Homer) had thrown out, would have been contro. of the Bank. With respect to the word coin, what verted ; but that he could not guess. The last of ' was it ? Did it make any difference in the standard? his Right Hon. Friend's Resolutions gave him all he } The coin was the Kinn's assurance to his subjects could wish ; far it admitted that it was expedient to ' that their property should be protected ; that it should remove the restrictions, with this qualification : " but 1 be of that fineness and weight necessary to give to all not prior to the conclusion of a definitive treaty of 1 in their dealings an equal participation of justice. — peace." He was prepared for hearing doctines in jTo say, then, that bank-notes were held in public esti• opposition to what he should state, which doctrines 1 oration, was to evade altogether the argument. To were up to the present day doubted. To shew the question was one wholly of fact. Was the Bank d fallacy of such doctrines, he should endeavour to sa- England note worth what it purported to be worth! tisfy the Committee that the causes of the high price , It certainly was not ; as he should show presently. — of bullion was not attributable to the unfavourable I It had been asserted by an Hon. Gentleman opposite, state of the exchanges, when the House had delegated that a light guinea would pass for more than its real to the Committee up stairs full powers to inquire into 1 value. When a guinea was worth more than it foo the causes which led to the high price of gold bullion, merly was, see to what it would tend. Suppose, 1.1. and the great excess in the market price, as settled instance, a person was indebted to another £2.6, :end by the standard of the realm. Since that inquiry, the he was called upon to discharge that debt, which evil complained of had greatly increased. The stan- ought to be done in the lawful coin of the realm, he dard price of gold was at that time £3 17s. 10d. ; must give his creditor, if in silver, at the rate of es. A re last summer it was as high as £4 lOs ; this year as ' per oz. 1001 ounces, but suppose be should give him high as ae4. 14s. ; and in some tables it had been quo- se26 in notes, they would, in consequence of their de ted as high as £4 18s. ; but on comparing these with predation, only purchase 86 ounces and two.thirds. other tables, it was clear that the average was So far then from Bank-notes being equivaloot to tne se4 14s. being an excess in the market price of 20 standard, a debtor might discharge a debt of e...13 , a per cent. over and above the price settled at the . Bank, paper, which, if converted into silver, woull Mint. This high price was most evidently a depar- ' only produce 86 ounces; whereas, by the I.in s '..! ture from the standard of the realm. The lawful standard of the realm, the creditor is entitled to re' currency of the realm being coined gold and silver,' ceive 100 ounces, the Bank-note of All being sre: - . 1 all issues of paper-money were of course nothing less something less than 16s. If this was so, then it watij than stipulations to pay in the lawful money of the become necessary to ask who are to blame, and who . ' realm. That being so, a Bank note of one pound the remedy for the evil was to be found? In tho must be taken in part as a etipulatioa or agreement 4 respect it was only necessary for the Hou se to issti' NEW THEATRE. On the motion of Mr. MEctisit, the second read ing of the London Theatre Bill was postponed till Thursday next. WAYS AND MEANS. The House having resolved itself into a Commit. tee of Ways and Means, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, and observed, that having some time ago stated his reasons for funding the sum of twelve millions loan, and of chat sum not more than £7,800,000 having been subscribed for, he had, in furtherance of the idea which he then entertained and stated to the House, thought it his duty to enter into contract for supplying the deficiency upon the terms which he then proposed, namely, to fund the whole in the five per cent. stock. It was desirable that the Gentlemen who had then subscribed should have the same ad vantage with the present Subscribers. He therefore proposed to give those Gentlemen the option of having for every £7O subscribed, €72. 12s. in the 5 per cents. and also for prompt payment, 4 per cent. discount. The permanent charge to the public would be the same in both cases ; and it would be seen, that he had not given more advantage to the new subscribers than he had given to the old, for it was but equitable that both should be on a par. In breaking the loan there , fore no injury would arise to the public interest, though,previous to that time, an idea had prevailed, that great disadvantage would accrue, and that stocks would be depressed. Stocks, however, instead of, feeling a great depression, had since apparently pro gressively improved ; and, under the idea then held out, he judged it proper to propose the same terms as bad been originally proposed. Having so done, and this day being the last for receiving the proposals in answer, and for closing, he had to state, that the Gen tlemen on the list who had offered, had closed with them. The amount to be funded in order to make 1 up the deficiency, was £4,981,000 leaving a fraction of somewhat about £60,000 of the £11,000,000. At three o'clock on this day, the Gentlemen had closed, taking the sum of £4,700,000 upon the proposed terms, which the Committee would see left about £200,000 unsubseribed for ; but that sum Messrs. Baring and Angerstein had agreed to take. The Right Hon. Gentleman then moved, " That a sum not exceeding £4,981,000 be raised by Loan on An nuities," kc. &c. After a few observations from SirTnomasTuaTos, the Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report was , brought up. TUE BULLION REPORT. Mr. HORNER moved the Order of the Day for the House to go into a Committee on the Report of the Bullion Exchanges. .1 V. two considerations ; -, _ a wise measure ? and next, whether its provisions ! The several papers presented to the House upon were the best that could be adapted to it ? Th e fi rst : the subj.nt were referred to the consideration of the of those considerations was that which was properly 1 Committee. and immediately before their Lordships ; the latter : The SPEAKER having quitted the Chair, and the House being in a Committee of the whole House, would come more fitly to be discusse i d in the Com- 1 , Mr. LUSHINGTON in the Chair, rnittee. By the Bill it was intended to give a remu iterative price, such as was fair an d e q uitable, to the 1 Mr. HORNER rose and observed, that before he entered into an explanation of the subject to which corn grower ; and that the price was found to be fair he was about to call their attention, it would be nee wain manifest, in the fact that both parties objected to i cessary to state that it was his intention to separate it. But there was nothing n ew or e x periment : in the : the consideration of the last Resolution from the for measure. It was only the same a s had fre q uently been mer ones, because the former Resolutions embraced brought into practice. It was on a principle of regu- • I and embodied what appeared to him the causes and lation, a principle going not to restrict, bat to unbind. effect of the scarcity of Bullion ; which having done, If he considered it as being injurious to the agricul total interest, he would at once reject it, but it was a the last pointed out what, in his judgment, would be best adapted to remedy the grievance, and which he measure at once of expediency and justice. proposed for the Committee to agree to. He was the Lord GRENVILLE objected strongly to the de structive principles laid down by the Noble Secretary more inclined to do this inasmuch as there were many opinions on the subject. Those who differed irons of State in separating the principle of the Bill from; the detail . Instead of the Incisor of holding out a hint essentially would be better able to come to a con clusion upon his propositions, as by separating them fair and equal competition between the agriculturist they would be more distinct. With this determina- and the sugar grower, it gave a bounty to she latter to enable him to drive the former out of the market. tioa, he intended to state fully the view which lie took of the subject in the first instance,and then to propose The boon held out to t he su g ar g rower was ex icted the whole of the Resolutions, with the exception of from the agriculturist, and was at best an instance of . the last, which he, should move distinctly. Having the trite adage robbiog Peter to pay Paul. He con premised thus much, be should now proceed to the demned the interference of Parliament with the sub. consideration of this important subject in all its bear ject at all, and instanced the fatal effects which at an early period of the Preach revolat,ion bad resulted' ift logs, giving ta it all that attention ; and stating all i r u 1 IL 1 1