Star. — London, England, 1811-04-03 00:00:00

- PP - A 714 M. asiwomeaseemeosser mediate interests, and greater care, than from the consider it in the light of a mast unprincipled rob. ..__ PARLMPIENT,Mi PRuCEZDINGS. , prodigal and wasteful expenditure of great comps- bery. The Bill for the exemption was 6rought into . tries. The fisheries of Scotland, of Cornwall, of New- the House on the 29th of June, and read a third time HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL sr. foundland were carried on without such companies. on the 6th of July. The distant part. of the manta)! Some Local and Private Bills .were brought uji from the Cons- Nothing could indeed be more destructive to the fishe- could have therefore no knowledge of k. Why druid mom . ries than this. The fish could not be sold, and the not the burden be equals? At • first no mail coach/ The Annual Indemnity Bit!, and the Military Ingtdry Bill only effect would be to ruin the individuals who had passenger could carry more than fourteen pounds with pawed thiough Committee., and were Reported without amend• , already embarked their capital in the business. The him ; but now mail coaches were used .as the most astot. The Committee en the Glebe House Bill was posterink ant fiSheries would by this means be completely paralized convenient conveyance of parcels. Why should not the)3ed ordered to be primed. at the moment when the opening of foreign markets therefore the parcels and passengers pay toll ? The pANBURY exertasoe. might render it of the greatest benefit. He there- road to Dublin by Holyhead had been again and In the Committee of Privileges on the Banbury foreliad no hesitation of giving his decided negative again indicted ; but so great was the injury which it Peerage, • to•the Bill. sustained from the mail that it was found absolutely Lord ERSKINE,in an eloquent and learned speech, • Mr. MA RRYATT followed on the same side, impossible to keep it in repair. No loss of revenue, replied to the .rguments of the Lotal Chancellor, Lord and mentioned the failure of former schemes of this he contended, could ensue to Government. Redesdale, and Lord Ellenborough, delivered on for. kind. The Companies had first ruined the private 1 Mr. ROSE thought the six days sufficient for notice suer days. He began by highly complimenting the fishers, and then themselves, their busses being seen ' Mr. ROBERT DUNDAS joined in supporting - capacity and learning of his Noble and Learned , rotting• on various parts of the coast. the motion, and in stigmatizing the exemption, which Friends, but he had rot been convinced by their rea- Mr. HARVEY understood that one part of the was severely felt in Scotland, where country Gentle soning. They had contended that the probability ur plan was to get Dutchmen to teach the best me- men frequently advanced large sums of money in improbability of the legitimacy of the ancestor of the thod of curing the fish. That expedient had been making roads, for which they seldom got more than claimant was to behhe question for decision. In this already tried in a a few instances, and these men hay- two or three per cent. returned, and frequently little he differed from them, and contended that, by the ing acquired a knowledge of our coast were pilots on or nothing. The creditors on turnpike roads had civil, canon, and common laws, legitimacy was board the enemy's ships. many of them suffered severely from the exemption. to be presumed till the contrary was proved. With The question was then put, and the BM thrown out The road from Carlisle to Edinburgh, for instance, a view to secure the advantages resulting from the without a division. could not be kept in repair by the existing tolls.— institution of marriage, it was necessary that the pre- , WkXFORD—CASE OP COLONEL ALCOCK. I They were doubled by Act of Parliament ; and on sumption of law should be in favour of legitimacy.— Mr. TIGHE stated, that he held in his hand a Pe- the faith of this increase money was advanced. A if two horses belonging to different persons had the tition from certain Freeholders of the County of Wex- mail-coach was established, and the stage-coach which sole access to a mare, the property of the colt might : ford, praying for a new Writ for the election of a had formetly run was obliged to give up. The con-' be decided upon probabilities of shape, colour, and Member for that county, in the room of Colonel Con- sequence was, the sinking of the tolls to their formers other marks. But das rule would not apply to the ' greve Alcock. This was a melancholy case, and the ' amount, to the great injury of the creditors. The human. race, especially in a country like this, where Freeholders had taken care to avoid any appearance . mail-coach system was carried in many parts to an there was no such tiring as the guards and confine- •of indecorous precipitation. The Petition stated, that ' excess of which no conception could be formed here. ment of eastern countries. Legitimacy was 'to be one of their Representatives, Colonel Alcock, was de. I For instance, numbers of two-penny post-coaches were presumed, and it cool,' only be disproved in two ways, . !ranged—that a Commission of Lunacy had been sued ;perpetually crawling on the roads in the neighbour - either by sheaving that the husband was under a na , out, and their verdict was, that Colonel Alcock was . hood of Edinburgh, which could only have the effect tural disability or impotent, or by proving that he had : of unsound mind—had become so on the 7th of No- lof retarding letters. • . ;no access and these points were to be proved like ' vembir, 1309, and that there was no reasonable hope Mr. WILLIAM SMITH had a thousand times any other facts. It had once been imagined, that if of his recovery. Every thing then had been done wondered that complaints against the exemption had the husband was within the four seas, the child would I slowly and deliberately—there was no difference of not been brought many years ago. Mail-coaches be legitimate, hut this had been exploded...lt had . opinion as to the fact, and the Physicians might i were now very different to what they were at first. never, indeed, been a confirmed rule of law. It was be examined at the bar. There was only one case in If a boat or a canal should have one-third of its freight suffieient to prose, that the husband had no access. I the Journals analogous to this—it happened in the military stores, was the rest of the freight to go free Even the cases that had been cited to shew that the ' 9th of Elizabeth, 1566. It appeared in that case A very small part of the burden of a mail-coach be probability or improbability, was the question proved, . that a warrant for a new Writ had been obtained for longed to the public, one or two cwt. at most ; why, when closely exae.ined, that access or no access had I l a borough in Cornwall, one of the Members being therefore, was the remaining one or two tons to go been the real point in issue. As to the objection of , reported to be a lunatic. Whether the Report was free ? If the 850,000 which the Chancellor of the age, it weighed nothing in the scale, there were three !by a single Member or a Committee did not appear. Exchequer said would be lost, if this motion should Peers in that Home who derived their descent from i There were stronger precedents, however, though not have effect, be unjustly taken from individuals, it Sir Stephen Fox, who had twins born to him by a exactly of this kind. New Writs had been issued oa ought to be returned ; but no loss could be felt by wife of unimpeaclied virtue, when he was of the age , the sickness of Members, but there were also con- Government, and the additional burden could only I • of 79 or 80. Instances of a similar nature were nu- trary precedents on that head. There was nothing, fall upon the passengers. /serous, and there was ro ground whatever for pre-! i however, to contradict the precedent of a new Writ Mr. GIDDY also approved of the matter being miming; that because the Earl of Banbury was 70 ,in the case of lunacy. He would move that the Pe- sent to a Committee.. ' years of age, that therefore the child was not his. His I t itio n be referred to a Committee of Privileges. Mr. FULLER thought if the contractors for mail . Lordship took a review of the evidence as delivered The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER coaches did by their contracts possess peculiar ad in the Committee of Privileges, soon atter the Resto- did not oppose the motion, but begged it might not vantages, they ought as well as others to pay toll. ratien, and contended that there was no proof what- be understood that he was pledged to agree to the is- The House then divided: ever of the non-access of the Earl of Banbury to the suing of the Writ, even though the Committee should For the Committee 39--Against it 34--Majori- Countess, and therefore,.that the presumption of law I report these allegations to he true. It was contrary ty 5. must be, that the child of the Countess, under whomlto the modern practice to allow new writs in cases of Lord BINNING then moved his Committee. the present claimant claimed, was the son of the Earl i sickness or temporary infirmity. How far lunacy WESTMINSTER HUSTINGS AND - POLL CLERICS. Of P - ,t ,-- . . anestion to be Mr. LUSHINGTON wed for leave to he' ein 11, Banbury. Earl SI'ANHOPE moved to postpone the further proceeding in this case 6)1 Monday, which, after some conversation between the Duke of Norfolk, the Lord Chancellor, and Lord Ell?nborongh, was agreed t0. 7 -Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. WHITBREAD moved for a copy of the appointment of the present Chief Justice of Sierra Leone, the date of that ap pointment, together with the date of his departure : and if he had nor departed, the reason of his remaining in En and.— Ordered. • On the motion of Sir S. ROMILLY, the Slave Trade Felony Bill was postponed from Friday, to Monday the 12d Mst. The British Museum Accounts and a Memorial relative ti the Distilleries, were laid before the - House. • The Militia Enlistment Bill was read a third time and passed. 01) the motion of Sir S. ROM ILLY, the Bills for preventing • Bteali!:g in tbeDwelling-house, Privately Stealing in Shops, Steal , ing on Navigable Rivers ; and Stealing of Cloth from Bleaching Grounds ht England, and in Ireland, severally went through Committees, anti were ordered to be reported to-morrow. The House having resolved itself Into a Committee on the Duties on Timber, Mr. ROSE proposed several Resolutions for Drawbacks on the importation'of certain descriptions of deals. The Resolutions were agreed to, and the House having resum ed, the report was ordered to he received to morrow. Mr. WHARTON brought up the Copy of the Memorial pre sented on the 27th of March by the London ••- • to lie on the table. 'I he commitment of the Irish Stage Coach Bill was fixed for Friday three weeks. A Message was received from the Lords, stating that their Lordships had agreed to the Commercial Credit Bill without any amendment. might make a difference, would be a q _ mos bring hereafter considered. a Bill for extendinithi Act respecting the Expenct The Petition was then brought up, read, and or- of Hustings and Poll Clerks at the different Elections dered to be referred to a Committee of Privileges— throughout the Kingdom, to the City of Westminster. the Committee to sit to-morrow. His object was to invite the attention of the House to MAIL-COACHES—TOLLS. the extent of this burden, and to the expence neces , Lord BINNING rose, pursuant to notice, to move sarily accompanying it, in such a City as Westmin for a Committee to examine into the expediency of ster, and to call on them to determine on whom . such continuing to mail-coaches the exemption from tolls. expence should fall ; if it ought not, as in other cases, This exemption was severely felt by all parts of the to be borne by the Candidates, instead of falling on kingdom, but particularly in Scotland, Wales, and the returning Officer," who was in general exempted' the Northern English Counties. Some counties in from every expence attendant on Elections. Scotland had been forced to incur great debts for the Sir FRANCIS BURDETT observed, if the Flo 7 repair of the roads, in consequence of this exemption nourable Gentleman meant to allude to the last Else. —and the whole of Scotland lost about £7OOO an- don for Westminster, his Bill would not apply. The nually. The revenue derived from these coaches, in- Honourable Gentleman's motion went to affect Can deed, was considerable ; but the burden was severer' didates. That was the case of a person who was not on the counties than the advantage to the revenue a Candidate, but who had been elected without any would warrant. The advantage of the mail-coaches application on his part. It appeared to him (Sir F. was particularly experienced by the mercantile inte- Burdett), however, at first sight, that the High Bai rest, who ought to bear their share of the burden.— liff of Westminster did not stand in the same situation He hinted that the loss of revenue might be made up with a Sheriff in an ordinary case. A Sheriff was by a duty on the coaches, which were a very profitable not a voluntary officer, but one on whom the duty concern. At all events it was a subject well worthy was imposed. The High Bailiff of Westminster, on of examination. The case of Government stores and the contrary, however, was not only a voluntary baggage was not at all similar ; for they were ex- officer, but one even who purchased his office, and emptili from the beginning, while mail-coaches were one who derived emoluments from the discharge of only exempted after the debts on most of the turnpike it, though of what kind, or to what extent, he did not toads had been contracted. It was said the mail-coach pretend to know. According to the general rule, system had subsisted for 25 years, and no complaint 1 therefore, where the privilege or advantage was, there had ever been made. The duration of an evil with- ought the burden also to be laid. He said so much, warraaw TINIER Y. I out complaint was no argument against it being re- not that he wished to oppose the bringing in the Bill, -Mr. HERBERT, of Kerry, moved the postpone- I dressed ; but complaints had often been made. At but that the inhabitants of Westminster might not, iment of the 2d reading of a the Western Fishery Bill, the first passing of the Act, it was impossible to fore- by his silence, think themselves precluded from ob. ta i reafiesdiy, 24th oil.- , see the extent to which the mail-coach system would jetting to the measure at a future period, if it should Mr. Calcraft, Sir John Newport, and Admiral Hat- j afterwards be carried. He therefore concluded with appear that the High Bailiff was already sufficiently trey opposed the motion. moving, that a Committee should be appointed to en- reimbursed for all the expences attending his office. Mr. CURWEN proposed that the 2d reading be quire into the expediency of this exemption. It the contrary should be the fact, he was convinced postponed till Monday first, which would give sta., Sir PETER MURRAY rose to second the motion. they had too much liberality to give the Bill any op cient notice to those who intended to support it. IHe said the exemption was peculiarly felt in Scot- position. . Sir THOMAS TURI'ON thought this latter pro. ! land, where the revenues arising from the turnpike-1 Mr. C. W. WYNN saw no reason, if the measure position reasonable. The House divided. For the roads were insufficient to pay the interest of the sums was in itself proper, why Westminster should be par. postoooe ment 27—Against it o—Majority 29. I expended in making the roads. The exemption wits titularly distinguished. He thought it ought to be • Tha House then Proceeded upon the motion , that , neither more nor less than a legal robbery of the cre- I extended to every populous place, is well is to West the Bill be now read a 2 d time.ditors, who had advanced their money on the security ' minster. Mr. ROSE supported and strongly contended that It of these roads, previous to its taking place. So great The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER the Fishery should be taken upon a great scale, when I a grievance was the mail-coach exemption considered, preferred confining the measure, in the first instance, the Dutch having been driven from it, and the whole that he bad, along with several other Gentlemen in- to the City of Westminster. It might be as the Hun. competition done away. It was a matter of the i terested in a certain road, made a successful applica- i Baronet (Burdett) supposed, that the High Bailiff highest public importance. The DOtch had employ. I don to the Post Office, to prevent a mail-coach being of Westminster had emoluments which might be ap ed• Upwards of 100,000 hands in this business. !established on it. In Ireland, mail-coaches paid toll. plicable to this purpo s e, but the fact of no application Mr. CALCRAFT.--The Right Honourable ! The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER i having been hitherto made by him, was by no means tleman's ar g ument might, perhaps, have been good objected to the going into a Committee. The length conclusive on the subject, any such Application having for something, had not the foreign market been shut ! of time which had passed since the exemption did not been rendered unnecessary, in consequence of the against us, while this country was glutted with fish certainly preclude a right to redress; yet, as no appli- Candidates having themselves defrayed the expence s upplied by private fishers. Such a Company as j cation had been for 25 years made to the Legislature, in question. this would do nothing else than ruin all the private i there wasapresumption that no ground of seriuos corn- 1 Sir FRANCIS BURDETT explained, that the fibers first and itself afterwards. He was an ene- plaint existed. This might happen from inattention Bill proposed to he introduced would not _apply to my in principle to these joint - stock Comp anies, w h i ch , in the first instance ; but nobody could imagine that such a case as that referred to by the Right Honour were never, except in very peculiar circumstances,l the mail coach s y s t e m h a d been in disguise for 25 able Gentleman. To make it effectual, it must ex pfeferable to individiial enterprize. This was, be.l years, and that, if necessary, redress could not have tend to persons elected, hut who were not Candidates. sides, one out of a series of projects of the sante kind, been applied for. Before the institution of mail Besides, in the recent case alluded to, the High Bailiff brought forward at the same time. It ought at any ' coaches, the post was carried free of toll. With re- did recover at law what were esteemed reasonable • rate to be put off till the next Session. spect to Scotland, he certainly did think that exemp- ' expences against the person elected, though he had 'Mr. D. GIDDY admitted, it was highly proper to Lion was claimed there with a very bad gra& ; for not been a candidate. encourage the Fisheries ' • but if we had driven the ; there was no part of the United Kingdom where so Mr. LOCICHART objected to the motion, as enemy from the sea , he had driven us from the land much of the public money was expended in opening going to subject to expence, which it would be diffi .....Where theta was the market for the fish , there being communications as in that country, by which the; cult to limit, Members of that House, who ought to wealth of the country must be greatly increased. The be returned free from all expose.. In time they might already enough for the home demand ?—These joint stock Companies were not to be encouraged. Much repeal of the exemption would be a sacrifice of no less be called on to pay for assessors to the returning Of rruwe benefit to the individuals and the public was to than 850,000. I ficers, as well as for Clerks. he expected from the frugal exertions pf private per- Mr. WILLIAMS WYNN said the exemption bad . Mr. WILSON supported the motitnt on the r ions; from their better management, their more ins• been severely felt in Wales, and 1* could not bait that chi aty of Westminster' was 'not a r I _ duds, and, of coerce, could have no funds from wlii - c a such expences as those now referred to could be sa• tistied.—Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. DISTILLERY SILL. The CHANCELLOR of the ZXCREQUET', moved the second reading of the Distill e ry B i ll. Mr. CURW4N, in a short speech oppo se d the mo. tion. The-scheme of equalization be th oug h t to b e at all times a hazardous one, but particularly so at pre sent. He WAS sure that the interests of the Empire at large, and those: of the agriculturists were idea tiled, and they could not injure the one without affect ing the other. It was agreed upon all hands. that no thing should be attempted by the Legislature which could interfere with the agricultural interests—if thee it was for the good of the Empire that those interests should be protected and encouraged, he wished to know if they could be better promoted than by the encouraging of the consumption of grain. This h a d been the principle, the avowed object of all their corn regulations for these many years back. Was it wise to depart front them ? Would it encourage the con sumption of grain, to lessen the demand for i t i n the distilleries ? in effect, to remove it Out of the distillery market ? for the Right Homier-able Gentleman could pot expect that the grain could hold a long competition with the sugar in the market—it was imposssible. The consequence then would be, that, by discouraging the corn-grower, they would ultimately lessen the produr tion of animal food. This was a consideration whirl, was in itself enough to make the Right Honourable Gentleman pauso before he would proceed upon any measure that could have any such tendency. The favourite argument with the West India Proprietor, was, that while we imported annually barley from Continent, it is but fair that we should let the sugar of our own colonies come into the market against th-- foreign corn ; but the fact was, that the amount of foreign corn imported was so trifling, as to be com. paratively nothing ; and therefore the far greater past of the sugar competition fell not upon the small par. tion of foreign barley annually imported, but upon the whole produce of our own corn growers. The i nt . portation of foreign barley taken in the year 17bC, when the - equalizing price was 38s. 6d. amounted ta, for that year, 2058 quarters, and the return for the year 1806, when the regulating price was also CS. 6d. amounted to 2038 quarters ; from this return it appeared, that the foreign imports of grain had, under the same equalizing duties, sensibly decreased. Why arguments which presented themselves to every mart who thought upon the subject could be so successfully evaded as they appeared now to be, he (Mr. C.) could not account for unless it was, that perhaps no interests were so disunited as the landed interest, and none that acted so cordially together as the West India interest. Thinking as he did that it was a question concerning which nothing was so much as to be avoided as hurry, and that time was wanting to possess all parties of the necessary information, he should now conclude with moving, that the Distillery Bill be read a second ,time this day six weeks. Mr. ROSE in a few words opposed the Amend ment, and supported the original motion. lie ad- Omitted with the Honourable Gentleman, that then was very little foreign barley imported, but still that which was imported, was imported for the purpere of distillation—if the home barley was consumed as animal food, and there were many parts of England, Cumberland, and Northumberland, and other corn• des, where they make good bread of barley, if then the home barley was used in this sort of consumption, the foreign barley principally would have to struggle in the market with the sugars, so that in fact the gist of the question was not so much whether they were to prefer the sagar-proprietor, or the corn-grower, as whether the foreign corn-grower should be allowed to undersell our own West-India merchants ? The malt had a very small proportion in the distillery trade; there were annually made in England twenty-eight millions of bushels of malt, of which but one million was consumed in distilleries. He hived that the House would agree without further delay to read the Bill a second time. Sir JOHN ANSTRUTHER said, that he never should consent to let this Bill be read a second time without further inquiry. Before they agreed to such an innovation upon their old corn laws, they should ascertain by inquiry how far the proposed measure was expedient ; and then, if expedient, how tar it was probable it would be productive of the etT cos expected to result fr6m it ? The Right Honouratae Gentleman seemed to have gone upon the pr;m•pie, that grain was never to sink below a certain prices but suppose that corn should become very cheap, and sugar still cheaper ; how, in that case, would the Right Honorable Gentleman bring his , theme of rules, conditions, and gradations to beat ? Be sides, the measure would have a permanent effect.— The moment the grain reached 38s. 6d. the equaliz ation took place ; then when the stager became, as it must do, the chief and general artiCle of distillation, (no matter what change might afterwards full ma) the sugar distiller could not suddenly change himself into a corn distiller ; so that the effect would oper rte rpermanently against the corn-grower. The Right in n ourable Baronet then pnaceecled to restate some of the arguments touched on by a fotiner speaker, !tad concluded by expressing his determination to op pose the second reading at that time. Mr. BARHAM declared, that if the object of his Honourable Friend's Amendment was nothing more than to supply new and important information to the House, he was not disposed to resist it. There were a few considerations, however, that occurred to him, which he'was desirous of stating. He was perfectly ready to admit that the agricultural- interests of the country were of the highest importance, and had the strongest claim to the attention of the Legislature-- He was also willing to admit, that if those interests should by Any state of affairs mingle and clash with the colonial interests of the empire, the latter ought to yield and be sacrificed to the former. (Hear. hear.) The proposition with which he should content him self was, that our own colonies ought not to be sacri- Geed to the interests of aliens and neutrals. (Hear.) To the present Bill, as a permanent measure, many weighty objections might undoubtedly be nude; as a temporary one, under the existing circumstances of the world, be conceived all the considerations of sound policy and justice concurred in supporting it. The question involved nothing less than a preference to be given either to the grower of foreign barley, or to the West-India proprietor, whose profits were re paid to the Government, and revisited the bosom of national wealth. (Hear, liar, fiats Mr. Faller.) H:11 F f