Star. — London, England, 1816-04-27 00:00:00

klieved, by the Ct Own and Ministers. TheTirst Ireland became a prey to the 'disorders created by fie cabals of a party against the Duke of Ormond, t Earl of Shaftesbury might then be seen to have sacrificed the interests' of the country to the benefit of the Irw. When the infatuated bigotry of James Tls had made those aggressions and encroachments on the ea.oii and religious liberties of his subjects' which ktoughi down open him the just indignation of the ration, took refuge in Ireland, and the people of sa s - t. ennairy, misonieed in their loyalty p were again-, drawn into a struggle which proved' for them most unfortunate. Nothing could divest them of their at tachment to hirit, because, they thought. as he told tliem,that he was a prey to factious ohich had driven him from his throne. The English people then esta blished their civil liberty, Irons that period they bad preserved it, and, their constant attention to thensaio reliance of their rights had brought them to their pre. sent state of prosperity: )fad that been the case , *ith Irel ind ? -14,0; she had been under the exercise of a :01 ty'annical gc.ve.nitneut; he meant no• thiog invi,linus against the present Government, but the Hoto.e would perceive that such had been the' Ease. and every thing had; been dope for what WAS called the Protesiant interest. Then had commenced the Penal Code, that code, which Lord Camden had aii. l , Wass" a monstrous monument of folly and op. pression, which was sufficient to demoralise the coun try, and which had dentnralized it." These were witnesses of the _induct of Government towards Ire land ; conduct which, would hare disgraced• the most paltry province, so full of petty artifices and subter. tuxes was it, aid so unworthy a country like Great Britain. A few instances of individuals who bad supported the system might deserve mentien, if he was nut taking up the time of the House. The Pri mate sit Ireland, in the case of Wood's halfpence, bad said, that he seas extremely sorry, that such a subject otoold be brought on, as it generally interested the people, and would tend to unite the whole coun try. This was in,the year 1747, and it was a canoes tact, that abut that time the country exported about &a , atotto worth of corn, and as every third or fourth year was a year of scarcity since the Revolution, Ire. land had paid upwards of 415.000,000 for corn im ported. There was another great man who Weaned himself a patriot, or wished to be called so, whose condUct was worthy of observation. He alluded to Dean Swift, who had drawn a character of _the Ro. w a n C abolics in some respects as bad as that drawn by Mr. Speake Bsyle. They were sunk, he had said, in poverty, cowardice, and wretchedness. The Fri. mate had likewise said, in a letter to Lord Carttret, that he had contrived a plan by which he could get five acres ploughed up in a certain number, about every hundred, though he did not mean by that to roam. rage the people of Ireland, but merely to enable them to provide their own subsistence. The Catho lic ()orgy, it might he recollected by the House, had been deprived of many of their erivileges which had, when possessed, been most beneficial to the piste. Numerous had been the r i g hts f which had been t o from the various bodies the Catholic population ; but there was no necessity for him to give a catalogue o: c.e instances in which the Protestants had used the same ca.:duct towards the Catholics. It was suffi cient to mark the temper that had distinguished them to mentioli that pe:itions had been received from Pro testant porters stating, that Catholic eoal-heavers bad employed Catholic porters, and wishing it to be otherwise, and that these, petitions, when presented to the House of Commons of Ireland, had net been re jected, but had been referred to the Committee of Grievances, Stich calamities as Ireland had endured were not us be immediately overcome, but he hoped that by constant attention, and by pursuing a proper method, they would in time be dissipated and for gotten; and it was to be hoped that the Parliament of Great Britain would do the people of that country justice. The Irish Parliament had, at one period, been so separated from its constituents, that the Eng lish Minister, seeing its weakness, endeavoured to continue the supply fur twenty years and upwards.— A Parliament ot George 11. had sat for 23 years, and Laving outlived all the ties that bound it to the people, every thing became paralyzed. The Parliament of 1747 were economical, though little conoected with those who aepointed them, and they contrived to pay off all their then existing debt. and there retrained a surplus, which, in 1753, amounted to X'.:00,000. There occurred some dispute as to the disposal of this surplus, but at length their disputes were ended by the English Chancellor, who took the surplus from their Treasury and appropriated it to the ser vice of England. In 1778, the Septennial Aet made the Parliament more regular in their intercourse with their Constituents, and they consequently paid more attention to their interests. • In that year the reverses of the American war and ill-success elsewhere. caused /Mend to be left without a military force, she was left to protect herself, and then began that era to her so glorious; she rose, felt her strength, and assumed the importance that was her due ; she recol lected the precept, that the nation übich respects herself shall be respected, and took her proper station aniongsr the nations of the earth. He had purposely aostaitted from entering upon the consideration of the Catholic Question, as that was cf too touch ion. portance to come mixed with any other subject be fore the House ; at present he only took the liberty of mentioning, that part of the Penal Code had been abolished, and that that was a sort of recognition of , the impropriety of the remainder. Parliameist had done little for Ireland as yet, though the Union was brought about by etpectatioos of an investigation of her grievances. She had not yet been properly re. nonrated for all her denims, for all Ise: contribu tions, for all her sacrifices, inconvenience, in treasure, and in blood. Since the Union sl.e Lad paid tomato *bout four millions and a half, whilst her regular re venue before the Union did not exceed one million. and a half. The Right Hon. Baronet, atter statikg how-much several Catholic Clergymen had promo ted die education of the lower orders, concluded a long and eloquent speech, by sooting—e , That an )humble Address-should be pretented to Lis Royal Highness the Prince Regent. to represent to his Royal Highness that the necessity the House Lai " been seder of providing an ariity to secure the inter nal tranquillity of. Ireland obliged them to consider the state of that country, which they considered as in all probability pernicious and diorama to the ex. is'enee of the kingdom. That they intended to direct eon, in r ower and undivided attetatiota to the subject, ► hied they hoped his Royal Highness would he pleased. to came to be laid berme them such papers as Were recessary for their • intOrmation. That they wooll wake every exertion to examine the evils under which that country laboured; and endeavour to find out their causes. That they would exert all their powers effectually to remove those evils with which Ireland was afilieted. and they would endeavour to rescue that fair portion of the globe from the state of dii turbance and desolation under which it had almost sunk exhausted." Mr. PEEL considered that the present subject might be the arena of many a combat, famous in the defeat of the one party and in the victory of another. He was of opinion, that as the country had been loug in arriving at its present state, it might be long before it would reach its former prosperity.; the state of Ireland was a Gordian knot, which should not be cut, but carefully and skilfully unravelled. There were parts of Ireland in which the people were re. , markable for every virtue that could adorn humanity, and there were crimes, he understood, for which the Irish language had nu name ; but there was in other parts of the country an untameable ferocity, a deter mined naalienity, for which no cause could be dis covered. There was,* some late instances, in the murder of Mr. Baker fer example, a fidelity in a bad cause, of which there were few equals. Same peas betides in the Irish character, with regard to crimes, had been• mentioned by Specter (the Poet), as ob- servable in his time.-- Alter enumerating the Coun ties which were most disturbed. and observing- how great a share the illicit distillation bad in producing the disquietude. the Right Honosirable Gtentleman proceeded to read extracts from the evidence of vari. ous Gentlemen before a Committee which was h id on the office of High Sheriff of Irela.. , l.3—Vs'ith re spect to Sheriffs. when he considered that they had the power of appointing the Grand Juries, he had no hesitation in sasiog it was repugnant to his feelings that the Lord Lieutenant should have the power of appointing the Sheriffs, and be certainly thought that the ancient method of appointing Sheriffs might be resorted to. On the subject of Magistrates, lie feared that any revision with respect to 'them would be impracticable. The mode in which they were appointed was this; the Lord Lieutenant received recommendations from the Governors of Counties, the Judges and others. and aepanted those wrio re• ceived the best character ; besides, there was a great difference between toe state of manners in Ireland and in this country ; and during the Rebellion, and at other turbulent periods, many persons lead been appointed to the Magistracy. weeei it would be an act of great injustice to remove a , his time; it would be a most difficult thing to fix ; -nterom tor settling the qualifications of , it would be impoi sitsle to fix on property as t , e e • rion in the present stile of Ireland. -. to the irritations stated by the Hon ir 4 . 31 r i to be encouraged in Ireland, Ail assured r• - . no such thing was done." There .sated • issosities, and violent party feelings %sal pert, • . which Government, with all its vigilance, WAS 1111414: to suppress. The ill blood and party spirit existing in Ireland. were of such a nature, that it would be impossib.e for any Legislative provision to reach them. The most stu dious efforts were made in Ireland. through the me dium of the Press. to render the people dissatisfied, and to snake them believe that they could find no justice in the country the most infamous falsehoods were propagated ; and, he believed. it was to these calumnies the misfortunes of the County of Tippe- rary might be attributed. All the advantages re sulting from a free Press were destroyed by its prac tical licentiousness in Ireland. 'nor consequences were, that men became indifferent whether they served their country or not. Of this licentiousness no estimate could be made from a view of any license taken by the Press in England. He quoted one work in particular, of a Bich a regular series had been found in the possession of one m.iletactor who suffered for his crimes ; it was circulsted almost gratuitously; the woo k he alluded to was the Hilerni.in Idazasine in which it was stated, that more Irish Catholics were butchered since 11414., than the ::umber of Protestants massacred in France. This wa... but one passage, which served as a specimen of the whole tenor of the work. He should now advert to another subject which bad been much talked of, he meant the state of elective franchise. This right established no principle of demo cracy in the country ; the advantage did not rest with the possessors of the freehold;, but the possessors of the freeholders. This franchise WAS an eternal source of perjury; every man who swore be had a freehold of 40s. was entitled to a vote, and in the registry of these pretended freeholds, the greateit abases prevailed ; the franchise was no advantage, but rather a source otoppression to the pretended freeholders, most of whose freeholds were in fact not to be found. He was fully persuaded, that no remedy for the distresses of Ireland could be found in Catholic emancipation ; but, he believed, that one great means of relief and security to Ireland, would be a measure to enforce The residence of .the landuvrners.—(Near, heir !) the beneficial effects of such a residence had already been felt in many instances. He was ready to admit, that educatibn might do a great deal and sow the seeds of future good ; and plans had already received the sanction of Government for promoting that great object. With respect to the motion then before the House, the information it sought to obtain must be wholly unnecessary with a view to any' future practi cal benefit, he should thereto:* propose the following amendment to the tuotion:-64 That an humble Ad dries be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, expressing the regret of the House that the internal sawed Ireland should render it necessary to maintain in a lime of peace a large military force in that country during the present year Lot the peaserra. don of public tranquillity ; and beseeching his Royal Highness to be pleased- to lay before the House a statement of the disturbances that had taken place in Ifieland, together with the means adopted . by Govern.' Mitt foe: the suppression thereOt.'t Mr. PLUNILETI began by e xpressing his ap probation at the manner iii which his Right Honour able fiencl , had brought forward his mutton. There was something in this question so important, that its' interests could not be sunk in any vulgar notions of party feelings. He proceeded to notice the alarming progsess of °dunes in several counties in Ireland; and the measures taken for their suppreSsion ; and, 4 would say, if th ey mould not be suppressed by any Aber eneep't a mi litary force, that 40,000, instead of 25,000,.assiroald hardly be sufficient for the purpose. • .• the tidlit Hon. Gentietnen hat)ugly State& that ' there existed a determined hatred to the law and Government of the country and nothing mild . be mere line than this, that there was something intrin sically laid in the system under which the people lived. The Right Hon. Gentleman bad proposed no remedies for these evils; he merely hinted at two; one wai, alteration of 40-shilling freeholds ; and the other, a restriction en absentees. He wished to see, Gentle Men reside more frequently on their estates; but be could not cut off the links of connexion that existed between England and Ireland ; and if Gen 'tlemen were to be compelled to stop there, the Union must be done away. With respect to the 40-shilling I f r eehold, the grievance arose, not out of ,the original Constitution of the country. but out of the Act of 1793. Now it the Right Honourable Gentleman wished.to raise a firebrand in Ireland, and bet the whole country in a flame, he could not do so more effectually than by proposing to disfranchise Ca tholic freeholders by the abolition of that Act.— (Here Mr. Peel interrupted the Honourable Member and dechred that Le never proposed any such thing he only pointed out the great abuses of the Act of 1793, in the registry of freeholds, and merely ex pressed a wish that none but bona Pe 40s. freeholders should have the elective franchise.) —Mr. Plunkett said, be had mistaken the Right Honourable Gentle. man : he now understood, that no plan was proposed but an improved system (.1 education, and an altera tion in the mode of electing Sheriffs. From the latter he could not reckou any great advantage. As to the parts of education which consisted merely of reading, writing, and arithmetic, there were more of the-, common people of Ireland educated in this way than of common people in England.. But that was not the sort of education which made people obedient to the laws and attached to their Government. It had no other effect than to 'table theris to read laws which they did not obey, and to count property which did not belong to them. The best mode of education was that which inspired men with attachment and venera tion for their Government. Still the encouragement Riven by Government to the education of children must 'he absurd and ineffectual, so long as the adults of the country were kept in suajugation with bayonets at their breasts. This indeed was a panacea which would answer no purpoee. He believed that <25,000 men would be necessary to keep down the disturb ances of Ireland ; 'but such a remedy would never cure the evils of the country. He must indeed be a bold men who would venture to say that he knew of an effectual remedy ; but he mutt also be a bold and desperate man who could say that there was no re medy whatever. No remedy was now proposed by Government exile or death was only a proof of the desperation of a Government, and -it was the duty of IParliament to rescue a people from the state of 'misery thus imposed upon them. He felt it his duty in candour to state, that the carrying of the Catholic', Question in a way to satisfy the minds of the Protes• tants, goirld do much good in Ireland ; it was, in deed, a rine pro moo without which nothing effectual could be done for the relief of Ireland. He knew' there were many agitators now disturbing the peace of Ireland but at the same time a large body of the' Catholics were warmly attached to the Government, and it was therefore the bounden duty'of a wise Go 'eminent to have availed itself of Vie loyalty and ] friendly sentiments of this valuable parr of the peo ple. This was not done, no conciliation, no fair play WAS given to this valuable part of .the cot:murky, who might, by such means, be brought ever to the interests of the Government. As to the state of the press, he knew there was a most licentious and sedi tious press directed against the Governmeut ; but lie asked if that was the only licentious press in Ireland ? The newspapers under the influence of Government. every day abounded with the most malignant and in. flammatory labels against the best meaning and most. loyal people of the country. It was the duty of the Government to suppress this licentiousness. There wese also Orange Societies in Ireland, whose mem bers bound themselves by oaths to support . Protes tants exclusively, and net to support the King any longer than be supported their system of exclusion. Why were these illegal Societies suffered to exist ? The most brutal, arrogant, and outrageous conduct continually manifested itself on the part of the low and vulgar members of these lodges in the North of Ireland ; and so long as they continued uusuppressed, they blighted every prospect to tranquillity and hap piness in Ireland. Here Mr. Plunkett mentioned the circumstance of a priest, is the county of Limerick, haviug exerted himself to preserve the public peace in Ireland, and being thabked by the secretary of State ; but the letter of thanks was published in the ' newspapers almost as soon as it reached the dual, so that in_ consequence of the isolated panegyric thus individually put forth, this clergyman was held up to the odium of his flock and of other Catholic icletgymea. The state of Ireland was very different now from what it had been formrtly. Within the last fifty years her commerce was doubled, her agri culture was increased fourfold, and her population was trebled. She was capable of any exertions, and of being made the mainstay of the British Empire, provided she was kindly treated ; but by a different treatment she was also capable of being made the deadliest foe for the destruction of England. in case she ever muted herself with any foreign power. Six teen years ago the advantages of the British, Consti tution were guaranteed to Irelandby the Union, and all that had since been done was to impose cruel re strictions there, which would not br tolerated in the most obscure corner of England. Things could not remain in their present state. The evils must be put an end to, er they would grow worse and worse every day. He advised the Ministers for Ireland to retrace the steps they were pursuing, and adopt such measures as would unite all classes in their affection to the Constitution.—. (Lead shoring.) Mr. PEEL, explained. He had received a letter from the Clergyman alluded to, stating, that from his influence w ith his flock, be had been enabled to discover cogsiderable quantities of arms. tie ( Mr. Peel) wrote a private letter of thanks to that Clergy. man from the Irish Government s and he was nut a little surprised to see that letter, some days after, in the &ON s. Mr.Ii s . P rI7•GERALD contended, that the evils consplained-of had am-arisen from the present cr any recent Government of Ireland,. but from the bad Government, ages betgie there was any difference of talkie' Ochre:eft chi two countries: 4 was his inten tion to prop= the algal 41 the. Rouse Doty in Ire . • • ancl iht the duty on licanhs of all hOuses that had not three 1 These might seem matters of little it House; but they were of great im) Irish peasantry. Ile hoped, small • sions might appear, that till! would , proofs of the willingt.ess of Goverranel far as posslble, the people of Ireland, not content to the ihandohmet.t of violation of the Ezcise Laws; as he enforcement to be most materially maintenance of peace and order in Ii Mr. DAWSON reprobated the col who seared neither pains nor expense the poison of their discontent throu h try, by their pernicious eloquence, am one s " ous publications against the first characters ie 6, 1 country. He thought the system t f tythe s esaitz — . tremely objectionable. Mr. C RATTAN thought the question Inse am . ble of being reduced to three heads; fi rst , fu lass o — ti distress; secondly, of commercial distresses; am . .lastly ► the state of insurrection in which seine pas se l Ireland were plunged. The first remedy sh ou ld b e ill repeal tae Penal Laws, as applicable to the Carh o e cis Her financial distress sees very ;treat ; but this cowls try should coesider, that it had ssioli the meniscus the remedy in its own hands. Any thing tbat degr ees Ireland would destroy Great Britain ; an d, t h ere e xt. ' whenever we found Ireland sinking unite distress, we ought to administer to her assistaatt "pith Our wealth. The commercial correspondence b oom the two comitries should be established co & m el d I sof mutual ad vantages. The great mode of oath* o s e evils under which Ireland groar.ed, was by ailstt iau. tering relief, where it was applicehle, to the m et evils, and the lesser burthens would die of rh erto th et: As to the insurrections in Iceland, in his opinion, they ought to be put down by a mild exercise of the love rather than by the power ef the military; for if the former measure were pursued, the very criarnal who suffered under the law, must praise that Conititod oe which condemned him. Ireland had corm:644os the successes of the last war ; sit had assisted in ear. 'ling Europe through chaos, and bringing her into fight : and, after having made all Europe c. ur friends, by destroying the rancourous enmity of Bonapare, we surely had time to advert to the situation of I l a laud for the purpose of ameliorating her difficulties. Lard CASTLEREAGH said, that srbajever dif. ficulties might surround this question, it must be pleasing to consider with what temper it had bees conducted nn both sides of the House. 'I he Right Honourable Gentleman who spoke last had partial. laxly infused that temper and conciliation into the debate. He was, however, of opinion, that the it. .quiry (if any were necessary) should originate with his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Peel) who had admitted that certain remedial steps wer: necessary. He hoped the Right Honourable Baronet (Sir J. Nos. port) would therefore give way, with x view to tins. nimity. The Noble Lerd took an extruded review of the present situation of Ireland, and declared the _readiness of his Majesty's Government to adopt every 'possible measure ter its to nefit. His Lordship oh ' served, it was well known, that on the subject of Ca. Itholic Emancipation there was a difference of opinion amongst his Majesty's Minoters. He wished, how. ever, that this question slionid not be made a Go. cerement question, but di it it sooold be carried as a general measure ; and further, he &elated, that, ia his opinion, peace would never be restored to Itelead till prejudice on this subject was ove: come. Mr. PONSONBY supported the original mottos. It was*mosi fitting that the causes should he exolain ed by which Ireland had beet. brought into her pre. sent situation. The amendment merely went to ie. loran Parliament of that which they already knot. Adverting to the difference of opinion bet am) the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Secretary on the . question of Catholic Emancipation, lie asked how it 'WAS possible that, uuder such eireunistaitees, Should be otherwise than in a gate of agitation ? The Right Hon. Gentleman Oleo weot ill«) a consi. durable length of argument, in order to slew that there was no disposition on the part of his Miksty's Ministers to enter into the serious consideration of arty subject connected with Irelaud. And he con. tended that unless such inquiry was entesed into, and some proper remedy applied, it would be impos sible to preserve that country in a state of tranquillity. He also took a view of the state of the Magistracy of Ireland, and observed that Ministers should not be deterred horn attempting to reform it by the . ditilletil. ties which might present themselves, for that a reform wa. practicable, and was absolutely necessary. He further added, that the emus of proposing some plan for the relief of Ireland lay not with Gelitletnen at his (the opposition) side, but with Nlirtsters, whose duty it was. He concluded by suppoiting the original motion. Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST rose areidst. loud and repeated cries of Question, to reply to t'ie errs merits of the Rizlit Ho''nottrable Gentleman who had just sat down, and addressed the I loose et tome length, tinder the disadvantage of frequent iaterrnp tions. Sir F. FLOOD said (as soon as he Could be beard) thatle had a right to be hear 1 on this roes don as an Irishman and an Imperial l'..:presernative. (Loud laughter.) The Honourablz Balot.et then Fro ceeded to notice the different evils which were stattd to press most heavily upon Ireland, one of which was the want of education. He begged to inform the House, that there were numbers of respectable schools, and some of inferior reputation. Which were called hedge schools, and that the lower classes of the Irish were so fond of learning, that they raa, to pick it up in the hedges with the greatest avidity. (Loud and continued laughter.) He coul•i not but teal gratetul to the House for OM listening to him as they had done the Right Hon. Gentletriao who preceded him, whom they could scarcely hear, from the impa tience which was manifested to go to the vote. (Lod /wieder.) Sir NICHOLAS COLTIIURST was favourable to concession on both sides. Sir J. NaWPOla shortly replied, when a &WO% took place. For Ministers, in favour of the etaerri mend—Ayes, 187—Noes, !05 Mai oti ty, 82. Lord CASTIAItUfiII brought hu the Alien B Read a first, and ordered to be read a second ti rte on Monday. The Co:memos on Agricultursi Distress *as deferred Irn Moisslay to Fridaz pest. The other orders of the day were 'reposed ,At4onnied at Pim u'Clock. at wt sha by chi sal 11 I t%ild be hearths is imponance ta iii ; 1 mportanse to 1 as those coact, I be considered I, neat to benefit,.' ' 1 V 1. But he wou. , e ., the penalty for Till consid,r e d tb, 1 11 " netSSan IC • 11 Irelaned. onduct of dell lei Zi tin disseminate( *Ai Ighont that ck, whl and their slande.