Star. — London, England, 1809-03-07 00:00:00

; ruin to our enemies would be to us of material li tene, •, s o much as that it would be ir:urious to ~ • ,-. :it rf liberty, and would be, therefore, an event a cceptable to that individual, who was the inveterate enemy (f liberty all over the warld, althotigh he had overrun Europe—had sub •:yd and erected thrones—and extirpated ancient . ind had destroyed venerable institutions, • t been able to triumph over that detestation of enny, which by the favour of Pnoviurxer: yet • :in so c onsiderable a det , ;ree. Of the three int vestions which had been brought under the • • of the House, he allowed, with the Ho ie Gentleman, that this was the most Mi lt was attended with a peculiar circum ,,,e on the first of those questions, the House called upon to decide, before the documents ig it, which had been laid upon the table, • .I.`J by possibility have been read. On the second ;:' ie• questa ns the Houe had been called upon to bje.re the documents respecting it had even o roduced. But on the present question folios e v,f.aice, adduced a twelvemonth ago, at t h e re ::oa of the Hon. Gentleman, and his ti tends, • the table : and yet, that Honour:till:: !:.td not chosen to refer to one tittle of it. The etained in that body of evidence would prove ,s inisrepresentations that had gone abroad : in tiro first place, prove that truth, so shame- I. : ev ,enied, that in consequence of the Berlin De ce:e the commerce of the country had been nearly before the issuing of the Orders in Council ; Juld, in the second instance, shew the bene eitects which those Orders had produced.— ~plogized to die i louse for the necessity under he felt himself to recal their attention to the .;.':KC that had been given-ut their bar during the ion. [The Hon. Gentleman here read the azinas of several witnesses who were examined in order to establish :.he facts which he seacd.] He then proceeded to shew from the -ac, that, in August, September, and October, b the Orders in Council were issued, the rate of i:r :ace rose to such a height in this country in con of the Berlin Decree, as to amount to an e: prohibition of our trade, not only with the Cen t but wah America. How then could the Ber , :)-.'tree be represented as a mere letter and a elf ? The effects of this Decree were also proven the returns laid before the House by the Inspector ( ..eeel tai Customs ; from which it appeared, that tarty days previous to issuing the Orders in fewer than sixty-live vessels in our ports olied for permission to reland their cargoes.— eeee ens had been so fully and completely proven, 1. • e elld not help being surprized at the false asser t...., of a periodical work devoted to the opinions of on the other side, which went forth un ...;.nnlicted, and produced in America feelings hos. t ni this country.—[Name, name, from Lord It was as the Noble Lord suspected, the Review to which he alluded, which, with eat attending to facts or evidence, spread its Gallican ions in a manner so presumptuous, that those !•en...ls of England in America who could not be bets tcr informed, were imposed upon to believe, that such ::::omens could not have been made without some .eilitioa in truth. He then read from the Edinburgh : passages in which, in direct contradiction to state of the case, it was asserted, that g‘ no a e.iece in insurance had taken place in this country ior,;,iitenCe of the Berlin Decree, and that the ...tree itself was not carried into execution till after Orders in Council ;" concluding from these pre- Ciat the preamble to the Orders in Council was er.lacious in all points, and that we were chargeable, t nation, with that injustice and oppresSion which v:...,iiarged on others, and for the miseries ensuing tiie blockade of one quarter of the world. The i.ee. Gentleman, in warm terms, reprobated conduct egaceful to Britons, and sentiments so false and i.:;;e-,Z. as men. Ile then animadverted in severe lan • ea- e on the conduct of Gentlemen on the other side, fobowing the bold and flagitious example of the Ensl ever of Europe, and in their account :.tats went to the Antipodes of truth. This was a .e•e new even to the Opposition of this country, ‘.,:nrary to the British character, and had never I icsortc'd to till the present case, when they gavel,. to America of what was false ; namely, commerce had suffered nothing from the • le; I)._eree, whereas it had destroyed our corn ; entirely, save what had been rescued from . .eanion by the Orders in Council. He la d that ti.e Honourable Gentleman had not ...I a flute to facts, as this would have saved him .!!t nillo.eing the gross mis-statements of the Review, and giving the authority of a of the British House of Commons in aid of a'u'nts of the American democratic party.— , eablished this position, that our trade was b-,..fore the Orders in Council were issued, • e ail cad of all the Hoonouteible Gentleman's :,:ties ; and we were not to compare our present .ern,ece with what it was previous to the Decree, 5' it:: what it was for three months previous to the se , in Council ; nh y which we would find, that all t-i,,eyed sprung from these Orders. He then en a train of reasoning, to snew, that it was Orders in Council that necessarily destroyed with America ; on the contrary, they -;;,.;(2-.I it; and it was only prevented by the . 'eeel eainimportation Act, which existed before !,led, and the embargo which took place after. By reading eetracts from the ex .,: - r.e,nn et Mr. Inglis, and others, he made it ap . ‘:lat the execution of the Berlin Decree, unless ' by our Orders, would have utterly onr trade, and contended, that rescinding thelers, without a substitute for them, would a similar effect ; rather than submit to •••:-1 weld I, with all his objections to that mea -I.lt. meet a war with America, whichtertainly do Ili a greater injury. He commented the Honourable Member made of the • whieli he disapproved ( f, and cond kith him to give to France what he '' 1 •t 1-eac:!, in which she could re-establish her ma ....erway to the Straits of Gibraltar, and, as re, Laid a bridge from Calais to Dover. He ex his :airpriee at the (Tit:ion expressed by the • Ganleman, that the conduct of this country to- A merica was radically wrong,and defended it on or: id g: minds of self-defence and the law of nations • ••• iir:t in the eulogy prouounced on 1)r. Lawrence loss as a public or private man vas deplored by all that .fritew him) 10410 . 4fe WAVAMI would not have gone the length which the Honourable Gentle. :man did. The Learned Gentleman thealivent into a justification of our measures, on the ground, that they were consonant to the law of nations, which he sup ported by a precedent of the conduct of the States General and Spain, in•the reign of Philip 2d and 31, and Henry the 4th of France, where a measure, much stronger than this of Great Britain, and on far less provocation, had been adopted by the Dutch, and acknowledged by every Maritime State in Europe. He then characterized the conduct of Bonaparte in declaring Great Britain in a state of blockade, as ex ceeding, in presumption, any thing that had ever been done by the mos..-haughty monarch of the most arro gant nation of the earth, and n - arranting our coun tervailing Decree, which America never could have found fault with, were she not encouraged in her CI kilns by debates like the present hi the British Air iiament. On these opinions, propagated and Main tained in this country, he demonstrated the ill effects, and recommended to Mr. Whitbread not to allow his ...t. liberality to carry him too far, and make him suppose his own country wrong, merely for the purpose of displaying his universal philanthropy. 'title Honourable Gentleman then went into a strict examination of the offers made by America, and shelved most satisfactorily, that they were partial to wards France, illusory towards Britain, and unfairly stated by Mr. Whitbread. They never offered te join us against France—they did not resent the ag gression of France in her Decrees—they did not even call upon her to rescind them. As for continuinte the Embargo quoad France, if we agreed to their terms, it was altogether nugatory and unsatisfactory. It could not be an embargo after their ports were open, and as a prohibitory law, what was to enforce it so as to render it more efficacious than our Orders in Council, as they asserted ? What was to hinder the vessels, cleared out to any other country, to ste2r to a French port. We could not condemn them is our Prize Com ts, as we h td no tight to enforce the :observance of the law imposed by another nat . on ; and after we saw the Embargo so close a measure, 'so completely and flagrantly broken through, how could we expect that a mere. prohibition would be more effectual ? If this prorsition had been agreed to, America would instantly have engrt;es d the whole trade of Europe, to our exclusion, utterly and hreme diably. The H mourable Gentleman asserted again and again, that we would be satisfied with nothing but America's going to war with France, to force her to rescind the Berlin Decree. This was not the fact. We only required of America not to trade with France and our enemies, while these enemies would not suffer America to trade freely with us.— • He now took a review of the correspondence between General Armstrong and Champagny ; showing from thence, that, as France could not cope with Britain on the high seas, the plan of accommodation between I, her and America was to do. us still greater injury, by seizing all British merchandize in Continental ports, by what they stiled a pure municipal law, but which was in fact a most glaring breach of the laws of nations, and of every principle of justice, support ing what had been acquired by military outrage by illegal and tyrannical assumed rights. He expressed his hopes that the new Government of America, go verned by the sense and spirit of the people, would adopt juster measures towards Britain than those which our Ministers had in duty to the public rejected, and which, if they had accepted, would have been a parricidal act towards their country. The Honour-' able Gentleman then defended Mr. Canning's Note, which had been so much the subject of comment, and so far from being sarcastic and offensive to the Ame- i rican people, he considered it as having had a great influence in turning the tide of popular opinion in that country in our favour. To this effect he read a letter • from a respectable citizen of New York. Whether the • Right Honourable Secretary employed his tongue or pen in the service of his country, if he did it in the manner he was accustomed to do in that House, he, was not surprised that his opponents did not like laiv style ( Hear ! Hear!) The coincidence of the Em bargo with the French Decree was no joke to our commerce, and could net be meant as a sarcasm by the Right Honourable Secretary, who had adopted a manner fitted to prevent the harshness of dispute, and to win the people of America, whatever effect it might have on their Government. He denied that it created the opinion asserted by Mr. Whitbread. —So far from that, it was not published before the election, which Mr. Jefferson would have been 'very likely to do had he thought it calculated to excite the passions of the American people. Such effects, however, were not unlikely to be produced by the elo quent speech of the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread), when it found its way across the Atlan tic, and taught America all that ingenuity could de vise or mis-statement serve, as :he foundation to lay ing the blame of atvery thing upon the British Go vernment. He next stated the facts of the -case, so often repeated to the publie, shcwing, that the Em bargo was not the consevence of the Orders in Coun cil, which it is unnecessary to repeat, as they stand uncontroverted but on mere assertion. He alluded to Mr. Whitbread and his Friends' prophecies, among which the Honourable Gentleman in enumerating had forgot those on which they originally laid the greatest stress, namely, that by the Orders in Council, our colonies would be starved, and our commerce destroyed. Our colonies were not starved—our com-. merce was not destroyed—on the contrary, the Or ders in Council had saved them both. For these reasens he could not agree with the Address substi tuted after so long a notice for a motion to repeal the Orders in Council, as it went in fact to repeal these Orders unconditionally, and leave us to the mercy of our enemies. islr. ALEXANDER BARING was not disposed' to enter into a consideration of the evidence adduced' befo:e the House last Session, on the subject of the' Orders in Council, because lie was well aware that it was by no means a fair criterion, from what those in eividuals m . g l it have said , to judg e of the g eneral re-I stilt of the Crd in Council, as with respect to their erect on our commerce with America and the rest of the world. It w.is not difficult for Gentlemen to pick out of a mass of testimony, points' applicable to their , argumews, Lu which were specious and unsubstan ti 41 as to the universal policy or wisdom of their mea sures. The real question in this case was, whether or not our trade with America had increased or di ni:nshed, and fram the result d that inquiry to deter mine fairly on the merits •f what were called our nirtitires of-retaliation t He svorild rifer the House td the • general effect of these Orders, Its appeansd by! the papers on the table avoiding all minor details, and attending only to the naked result. From the ac counts of the Exports and Imports to and from Ame rica, laid upon the table for the last year, it appeared the trade between this and that country had diminish-1 ed from the amount of former years in no less a sum than six millions sterling. This was with regard to Great Britain alone. And the commerce of Great Britain with other parts of the world had likewise j decreased during the last year also, in a sum exceed- ! ing six millions, which being added to the decrease of the trade in Ireland with America, which was three ! miilioas, amounted in the whole to £15,000,000, I falling off in our general trade in the course .of one year. This was a subject that demanded the most serious investigation. By what other means could it , be, but by the Orders in Council, that we have lost • the principal part of our trade with America, and an equal proportion of our accustomed trade with other countries. The great ground on which the advocates of the Orders in Council defended those measures, was, that it our trade with America should be dimi nished, yet still our manufactures would find their way into some other countries, and consequently that te should feel very little, if any difference, in the event. Has that been the case ?he would ask. Was it tint manifest th it these Orders in Council had not only annihilated opr trade with America, but also destroy ed our commerce with other countries to an equal ex tent ? Exclusive of this, it should be o'Js2rved, by way of clearer illustration of the direct influence of these Orders, and of the American Embargo on our trade, that, ibr the first three months of the year, before the American Embargo was laid on, the im port trade from that country to this amounted to • £'2,800,000, but since that event took place, the trade did notaexceal ..£2O 4000. He menLior.e I this to chew that the largest prop riion of the trade of the last year took pi :cc prior to the operation of the Embargo. And it must further be 6:nerved, that this importa tion did not c..asist in sugar, or any one article, but in various commodities, that were absolutely neces sary to the well-being and cotnfort of tl:c country, ar.d such as were in general use and consumption. '['here was another subject, necessarily cnnnected with di 's • discussion, which demanded his obse.arati‘.n. He al- hided to the very fallacious notions entertaint d and ‘, propagated with respect to the trade with the l'razils and South America. Nothing could be more delusive than the stories told with respect to the state of the South American market, and the advantageous chan nel it was represented to be for the disposal of British manufacture. How unfortunately and miserably undeceived must those persons, thus deluded, be to learn, that Brazilian and Spanish American Colonies I are now stocked with • British pods, adequate to ten years consumption. This was a fact pretty well known to many merchants in the city of London, and was out of all question. Mr. ROSE, in reply, proved the Non-Importation Act was passed prior to the issuing of our Orders in Council ; that in the President's Message to Congress, the remotest allusion to our Orders was not made : and but a week afterwards, Mr. Madison transmitted to the President a copy of the Resolutions entered into by the Congress. The statement• made by the Honourable Gentleman, that the Brazils were stock ed already for the consumption of ten years, he was not prepared to reply to, as he had not inspected the documents from which such information could be derived. But the Hon. Gentleman's memory m"st deceive him with respect to what he had stated h;rri (Mr. Rose) to have said concerning the Brazils. He then proved, by various arguments, the Non-importa tion Act to be hostile to this country, and this only, and combated the assertions made by the Honourable Member, by laying the following statement before the 11 Howe : Exports to American States from Eng• land, for the years ending March 1 SOti and 1807 Ditto in 1808 - - - £11,774,000 .. - - - 5,784,000 Decrease in I ROB - - - A 5,990,000 Exports to all parts of America, ex elusive of the American States, but inclusive of the British and French West Indies, in 1308 - - X 12,859,000 Ditto in 1806 and 1 bO7 - - 8,629,0 i. 0 4 ,S 3 0,000 Mr.• Grittan) anitiouslY direct your obiervation to that eventful time, not to incite you to an imitation of those who went before you, bat to deter you by their • example—that -we may profit by their errors and their failures, and that thus their disgrace may be made of use to their posterity. I recollect the his tory of that.day when America s:o Id up against us, and resisted England and oppression ; what in that day was the lanuage of this House ? it was the lan guage of complaint—complaint that our Colonies were. worked up into unnatural rebellion by the speeches de livered in this place. The Opposition was the cause of all, and the Opposition only. The Americans took their instinct of resistance not from their charters —not from she spirit that because it will, must be free—not from their -condition as the Colonise.; of a free people —not from their right of as the de. sceedants of a British people, bet (*rein the motalis of a faction in this House. This was the-language then, and what are we told now ? that America is angry, not because she feels the effeets.of your injustice, but because there are men in this House who cern plain of that injustice, and that such language opens her eyes to injuries that would otherwise escape her notice.— Though this goes to attack the privilege of speech in this place, it shall not deter me from speaking what I think, for sure I am that the fate of America de pends on that of England, and that E urland is nearly, most nearly interested in the welfare c America. The Right Hon. Secretary has himself admitted this in the - conclusion of one of his letters. to Mr. Pinkney. I - was happy to see that admiss:on ; but should have been more so if the letter bad been consonant with the principle of that admission ( hear ! hear ! ) The Hon. Gentleman who was second in debate, argued that America acquiesced in the maritime restrictions im posed by France. I deny it. She resisted the Orders of Berlin. She resisted the Dscrees of France —Ge neral Armstrong remonstrated repeatedly and spirit edly.—Here Mr. Grattan went into a detaiLd states ment of the conduct of Gen. Armstrong at Paris, and commenced on it as he went along. He next proceeded to argue,that the DO) r ;owas the effect of our Orders in Council. But ( sail Mr. Grattan) if they are not the cause of that Embargo, why is that Embargo coati need ?—Wh at continues that Embargo? (Near, hear!) America oifers to take off her Embargo if you will rescind your Orders—do you doubt the sinceriti of the offer ? for one Gentleman seems to point out as much. if you do, I ask then, will you go off upon that—will you rest upon that, and say that if America is sincere in the offer, you will accede to it—will . you ty this ? If you will not, again I ask, what continues the Embargo ? Who is now the cause of the Embargo, when you yourselves refuse to do that which, it done, would remove it ? ( Hear, hear!) Is it so ? then how does the country stand in point of right ? Do you join with an unoffending neutral, and visit France with the consequences of her own insolence and injustice ? No —but you join yourselves to France against that neu tral. It is the bad retaliation of a worse principle—it is a sort of wicked emulation in injustice ; and if ie is warrantable in us, then extend the argument, and what will it amount to ? Why to this—that if France, instead of declaring against the commerce of neutrals, should declare against their liberties— against their lives, yov, in the spirit of this ret tliation, losing the spirit that made you what you are, are_ to trace their footsteps of the same atrocities, making the measure of French wrong the measure of British right. The ap plication appears monstrous, but the principle is the same, extended perhaps, but certainly not changed, • and whether less . o: greater in every shape a mon ter ! for qualify it as you may, it goes to the root of the law of nations ; it goes to build up a system of wrong retaliating wrong, and injustice combating in justice, that cats only end in an undefined suspension of the dominion of right—( Hear, hear.)—taking as it were the laws of nations theoretically from Goo, but at the same time learning their practical application from the enemy—( dear, hear.) —and in pursuing such conduct whose work is England doing? who now enforces the orders of Berlin ? England. Who now enforces the decrees of France ? England. tarho cre ated, who continues the embargo? England. She does more, she repels America from her ; she does still mire, the drives her into the very arms of France. But to all this you say, 99 we will fight France with her own weapons," as if her principles. could be your weapons. (Near, hear.) No, no, we have fought Leaving a decrease of £1,760,000 too long and too nobly to begin now to fight away But to set against that decrease, should be taken our national character against the well-practised ini into the accountthemercantileprolitonthe 1-,230,0001. ; quity of France. Let us fight in no cause we don't which in the way the trade was before carried into believe to be an honest one—and let our weapons be these countries, was entirely to the profit of the Ame- I as honest as our cause. So much forour justice. Look ricans ; and the profit (with all the consequences at- to it now as it affects our trade. The avowed object of tending it) on the British shipping employed, instead those measures is the sustenance of our commerce. Is of the American. America, our own America—our colonized America The British goods exported to America in i sos - 5,784,000 —our solitary neutral, to be injured, that our corn. The consumption in America from accotmts from thence merce may be improved ? Are you quite sure that in in 1804 5,153,000 justice to the one would not be injury.to the other? • So that under all the embarrassments of non-im-1 did 1 Commerce, applied to us, includes America, and yet portation and embargo imposed on America, we one to be promoted by the industrious subjugation infect, last year, send goods there to the value of their I of the other? Before those restrictions, I mean the year consumption ; and we had the profit of the incre a s ed before ' your exports to America were more than 12 il trade to other parts of America, which the United i : m land millions, now with your imports upwards of six. How was to flax . Ire- States had before. We deprived the enerAy of the I respect whole of the coloni.country I produce to the amount of more I as to cotton . Cons id er ? How was this er well before you give a .. growin . g country, adding abundantly to her than 9,000,0001. Thus, instead of the impending ; population, tnat was increasing your wealth by the ruin, which it had been declared hung over our heads,i u P it appeared our trade had sustained but a very incon- consumption of your manufactures ; a country where siderable diminution. Our colonies were not at such the tyrant mace of Bonaparte never strayed.— a g loss fin- a market to dispose of their commodi ti e s as To ive up such a country requires great coun tervatlin advantages —Where are the coerce the Conlin en y t of if y Europe had do ? m i g ht be imagined. The island of Jamaica he v eril y g b e lieved, excepting in the article of white oak st aves, (hear!) by the exclusion of all colonial commerce? Impossi evilshad suffered little or no inconven i en ce from those ble ! You may banish luxury from Europe—you may which had been represented as so for midable, and so fatal to our West India p os t e went into severalssians. The l abolish . v the refinements that enervate yuttr.enemy— Right Honourable Gentleman ) 0u may convince him that- superfluities are not ne written documents, respecting the relative situation cessaries—you may prove to him how many things 0 1 b o th countries, efore and after the Orders in Coun - h canlive without—you may make Europe an tint ed, and at a late hour concluded a statement of great versal soldier—you may barbarize Europe, and in a length and ability. I degree martialize her, and England will fare the Mr. GRATTAN next rose and s aid, that it was worst for it. Bonaparte knows this well, that superior ai in the corn non phraseology of every Member ri - ing man of mischief is glad to see you resort to his own to speak upon almost any su b j ect to sa y , that that weapons, fur he calculates that as yet, and for a long season, your ••niquities must be too shabby to affect h'in s ubject was important. The q uestion now before I seriously. The Hon. Gentleman who was second in tnis them was indeed so. Ther e could be none p erha p s of greater except that by which the y lost America ; debate sa y s , that America is indisposed towards us. I 1 and the same temper that th en broke the connexion \ , Ltment it and would remedy it. Abolish that repulsive between England and her colonies po li .cy towards her that you have used too much, and seems vived again, and to be now studiously busy in to be re- effe t- that you have been glad to use towe -rds her. You have ra cl Lei ing the connexion between America and France, and yet the success that crowned our policy at that tine, s:iould make us n ow rather industrious to avoid than , and then you ch ambit of retracing its disasters. I would. (said aces; and what t: to come over to !d her into a state of frozen alienation, 'T harge her with the ingratitude of cold. h ave yo u done it for ? To Compel her ) this country, and pay a :AZ to us for 1 • 1 t tl ❑'J , 1•• Y tU nt: r of lc•- 1: o • , 6 C.. II;c1 I ). tl `1:- s )1111 r,•- I !e i!or ,ci I, 1v ' ;~ ll it • ti II A 1