Star. — London, England, 1819-12-08 00:00:00

ioltick up a riot some y.. 'Several Members then rose to ad.iress the House, when the SPEAKER interposed, and said he wished to submit to the House the irregularity of the pro ceeding in which they were engaged, and to impress upon them the great danger which the permission of 'inch an irregularity would involve. Perhaps it was his duty to stop the Honourable Member (Mr. Wod ehouse) in the outset of his statement, but not being aware of ire real extent of the subject, until a pe riod whew it was improper to stop him, he was oblige.] to suffer him to proceed.' Having done so, he (the speaker), felt it would be an act of great in , justice towards the Honourable' Member, to whom the original statement alluded, if he had been de prived of the opportunity of explanation.- But - after this, the House, he trusted, would feel that this very irregular proceeding had gone far enough—nay, much &filler alto was permitted by even the greatest laxity 'of practice he had ever remembered in that House. It was surely unnecessary for him to impress on the House that a strict adherence to the rules and forms of Parliament was absolutely essential to the discharge of their duties, and to the preservatiun of their dignity.—( This address seas followed by general. eipressions of approbation). PENRYg ELZCTION. Sir CHARLES BURRELL moved for leave to bring in a Bill to remedy corrupt practices in the Borough of Penryn. Sir CHRISTOPHER HAWKINS shortly opposed t„t • - , • I I ' I it' • 4 P the motion. Mr. DENISON, 4sciverting t 6 what had been pre viously urged on the subject before the House, ob served, that the nature of the case was shortly this: the con uption of the Borough of Pernyn, and the £24 3 vote, were so notorious, that a Bill for remedying Bribery there, was passed by a great majority of that House, and would have been enacted into a law. bu. for the expiration of the Session. The present ap plication being for a,similar Bill, there_ could be no reason for an objection to it. He should now say, that if the right of suffrage had been transferred from the Boroughs of Penryn, Grampound, and Barnstaple, to Leeds, the whole of the discontents which existed in the country would have been pre vented. But instead of introducing some tory and wise measure—instead of holding forth the olive branch to the People, Ministers were only' engaged in sharpening the sword of the law. •He had always doubted the policy of a system of coer cion adopted towards a People.. Government could never lose by conciliation. The dispositions of a People became only irritated by harshness, and he thought a better and sounder advice could not be given to Gover "ors. with respect to the treatment of subjects, than was contained in the paisage of the Poet: " De to their faults a little blind, Be to their virtues ever kind, Let Al their wayi be unconfinl, Nor dap your padlock on their mind!" Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. I lit ll ~' , 4 ~ , v. , . , , i , i , i 4% 1 ( 1i: ' 1 i ' ' ~t . ~ i „ i 1111 I ~ _~.. , • . during its existence, that Parlist-7 submitted to k. And why insult the feelings of that oat' having injured Ireland more country ever was injured, and after were in a state of the ut thought fit to insult the, measure ; and now no body of any part of Ireland to Pe• without receiving permit - and he wished to know such a severity in apart was no disturbance?— manufactures or trade in Ifeland, see was there any part of the world where the peasantry lived in a more deplorable state of misetz.: 3r lt was, therefore, outrageous to hen the Noble s of the prosperity Of a country where such wretched ness prevailed, and to find that he offered such an' injury to Ireland, as this Bill must produce. The Noble Lord was proceeding now in England with the same horrible career which he had carried on many years ago in Ireland ; and the effect would be, to drive the People of England to madness, as he had driven the , People of Ireland to rebellion. In 'that country the sanctity of private dwellings had been repeatedly violated in the dead of night, by persons acting under the authority of Government, whb broke into them, and insulted respectable females; under pretence of searching for 'arms ; and similar practices were now to be set on foOt in England. He should, therefore move to have Ireland exempted from the operations of the present Bill. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that the Committee would be the proper place to discuss the propriety of , such an Amendment as that proposed by. the Hos. Gentleman. The House then resolved itself into a Committee, Mr. BROODEN in the Chair. Sir C. MONK wished to make an alteration in the part of the Bill which went to , fix the mode of calling County Meetings; If Lords Lieutenants were to have the power of calling Meetings,the sore power should be given to the erstodes &Worm. He thought, however, that it would be better to leave the business entirely to the Sheriffs of Counties, and leave out Lords Lieutenants altogether, because they were Military Officers. Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that Grand Juries had the power of calling Meetings, and he saw no reason for restricting the powers in the 'man ner proposed by the Hon. Baronet. Mr. G. LAIgBE wished the enactment to be such, that if one Officer refused to call a Meeting, there should be another ready to call one; and he wished the People might have the power of a pplying to those who would call Meetings. He therefore moved to leave out Lords Lieutenants and Custodes Rotu lorum. The motion was negatived. . ' Mr. BROUGHAM calkd the attention of the Committee to the clause re-pecting- the mode of call ing Meetings in town's corporate; he said, the Legis latorial Attorneys—(A laugh)—who drew out' this Bill did not- seem to know what they were about in this enactment. There were many great cities which in law were only villages and hamlets, which were wholly excluded from this Bill. The towns of Man chester and Birmingham werrexcluded ; the Borough of Southwark was also excluded, as well as many great manufacturing towns. Why should the privi lege be given to. York and Exeter, and not to 'great +manufacturing towns more populous and opulent ? Mr. Alderthan WAITHMAN s considered this clause as altogether nugatory, if it were not impe rative on the Officers of Corporations to call Meet ings when required to do so. In the City of London it was sometimes impossible to obtain Meetings, and because certain individuals there had. lately tried to obtain such Meeting, a criminal prosecution vras now going on against them for that act. In short, the parishes were the only places where Meetings could bo held; and before those Meetings could take place, such delays might be thrown in the way, that the whole Constitution pf England might be abolished by the Parliament, be&re the People of the Country could have time to petition against such a calamity. Therefore, the whole of this provision was completely useless, unless it Ikits imperative on Magistrates of Corporations to call Meetings when required to do so. Lord COMPTON said, that in order to obviate the inconvenience complained of, he should propose an Amendment, that it should be• in the pqwer of twenty. or thirty freeholders possessing £lOO a year each, to call Meetings in Counties an 4 Corporations in case the Magistrates refused to do so. The CHAIRMAN observed, that the Committee had not vet come to that part of the BilL Mr. MAXWELL proposed an Amendment re specting Scotland, giving power to ten freeholders, qualified to be Commissioners of Supply, .to Gall Meetings in Scotland, in case the Sheriffs there re. toted .to call them. Lord CASTLEREAGH-refused to agree to this or the preceding clause, as the Sheriffs were the best judges whether it might be proper, or might not be dangerous, under certain circumstances, to call Meet. ings ; were the clauses to be adopted, all the security required by this Bill might be obviated. At great County Meetings the Magistrates were the' only persons who ought to preside; the only safe principle to go on was, that the Magistrates, who were the conservators of the public peace, and answerable for the preservation of it, were the only proper persons to call, as well as to preside at Meetings. If this was not the case, it would be very easy to Grid any ten or twenty freeholders in any county, who would be ready to act in opposition to the intentions of. Go vernment, and convene the- most tumultuary Meet ings. A proposition, therefore, such as was madeby his Noble Friend and by the Honourable Gentleman opposite, would render this part of the Bill com pletely nugatory, find, therefore, he should oppose it. Mr. J. P.' GRANT.said, that the opposition given by the Noble Lord to both the Arrtendments, shrived to what an excess he was prepared to carry the prin ciple which urged him to' prairie this ragtime. Conld it be supposed, . that there were in Yorkshire twenty freeholders of the qtalification stated, who , could be inclined to call a Meeting, i£ they thought it would be attended with so much danger as the Noble Lord intimated. The arvanetit was still stronger with land. Their valuation ; , ~, , . . _ they s ot all lawyers anneinted to the obis iby &sdle/WM was Mr. Calcraft, .Crown? 'and wee notlis-appointinest generally con- (Hear, hear). sidereal as a lop t • the Bluth x_ (N ear, heir). He Lord STRATHAVEN begged leave to call the attention of the House to did serve the office—(H ew . the state of these cities in Scotland governed hy large; rid Ni sc h es ). corporations. Thee was not etwaty_there in wbildt 1 Sir R. HERON admi the heads of these corporations bad any cottillinien :serve the office, but it I with the People. They elected each other, and there- t proposition to which he fore were not to b e id e ty entrustod with apower like Mr. B. BATHURST this--(Hear, hear). - tlemen named on the list Lord NORMANBY said, that till be came down fused to serve the office to the Housothat night, and beard the objections of pelmets) appoint another, the Noble Lord (C h) to the Amendment ;Lord MILTON adu iued proposed by another Noble Lord (Compton), he had ficient excuse was made. not half the objections to this Bill ... which he no* had the sufficiency of the excuse —_earl}—fle thougho the proiosition cootained in MT. MARTIN (of Galw the Amendment was such as ought co be inc?rpo- don of the Committee , rated in the Bill, and he should therefore vote in fa- before them. He couceis your of it. ' - Amendment was in direct The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND ad- principle of the Bill ; and mimed that the Sheriffs in Scotland were appointed , carried, he should lose no by the Crown, bat be believed he would not be con , ' House to return to Ireland-4. tradicted in the assertion, that there was no instance admit, that there might ' of a Sheriff in Scotland having sacrificed the duties Yorkshire possessed of " of leis office to the influence of the Crown. Besides, not Radical Reformers. it should be remembered. that if the Sheriff refused, for all he knew, who had .. -.tirin g tolo the Convener was still to be Awned to. ' • lowing the doctrines of the Radic a l s; b ut aril • Mr. MANSFIELD thought that, if the - Amend- fore follow that such freeholders were o f .. ent of the Noble Lord was carried, they might importance to be entrusted with the peace give up the Bill at once. What ryason was there for country ?—(Hear, hear, hear). He would supposing that all the virtue of a county was confined the House, whether , if the real obje c t o f P u b to persons of £lOO a-yeas ? . ints was to give an opportunity of discus s i ng inc CHAIRMAN begged leave " to remind the , gnevances, -that object would not be b eet , Committee, that the Noble Lord's Amendment was by confining the deliberations to sections or not the question before them; the clause in the than by permitting them to extend to large Bill to which the Amendmerit affecting Sotiiiand re- 'blies, where no individual could be heard (erred, preceded that part of it which the Noble whole Meeting, even if he had a Stentorian ‘''c Lord's Amendment contemplated. Both Amend - (Hear , hear). Meetings , in fact,lad take n I' ',, mints could not be,hefore ate Committee at once.— which he knew not how all the individual s (Hear, Afar!) . ' • Could communicate with each other, (inlets b Lord ALTIJORPE said, that the qualification graphic signals, or by the sound of canna-i by his Noble Friend, was the same as that and laughter). If the Amendment was ag o proposed of the Peace, and as he could perceive no' he would 'take his leave instantly, and - danger AO arise from it, be would support the Ireland- (Laughter). Amendment. Sir CHARLES MONCK suggested, that itt The ATTORNEY-GENERAL • contended, that be a preferable mode, if his Noble Friend 1 although the qualification of a Justice of Peace was Compton) should propose that the sigma £lOO a-year, still, as that qualification did not enti- twenty freeholders of r 100 a year should be tie ant person to hold a Commission of the' Peace, dered competent to make a Requisition fs aC there was a manifest distinction to be taken between Meeting, instead of being competent to ct.ll:be l'Justices and persons having such a qualification— in (Hear, hear). (Hear I)—He apprehended that the practice of call- Mr. LiROGDEN (the Chairman) was do ing Meetings by Freeholders against the opinion of 'that great inconvenience awe from blendingli the Sheriffs of the County, was of modern growth ; propositions together in this discussion--(Crusi and though ho.worild nut venture to say that Meet- Lord COMPTON suggested, that if :um' ings so s assembled were illegal—(Hear, hear!) —still holders did nut afford a sufficient security, tir they were nut recognized by any positive enactments.' her might be increased, sayto thirty, in thoteu With regard to the Amendment before the Commit- which were supposed to be in a disturbed stan tee, he thought that it struck directly against the as York ana Lancaster. principle of)the Bill, which, as it now stood, pfo• Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that if he vided.some constituted authoriry to be answerable stood the Noble Lord, be had now three di tin for the o peaceable demeanour of the people.—(Hear!) positions before the Committee—(Hear, heir, NW. Mr. KENNEDY.observed, that the Amendment ing that the first was not tenable, the proposed, with regard to Scotland, was of obvious had told them to throw the Bill over the ta , necessity, as there was no Custos Rotulorum them; thus tend his (Lord Castlereagh's) Hon. urable The Commissioners in Scotland were possessed of i lo Mr.Martin) off to Ireland I—(A laugh). Thi the same qualification as the Commoner of a county; rd had said, that it should be compulsory an it was absurd, that a sanction should be given . Sheriff to call a' Meeting ; that because the to one individual, which wasjefused to ten who.had were not pleased to meet iu parishes, and bet: .. an equal interest in the peace and welfare Of the Persons could be found iii the county oho wi country.—(ffeer, hear!) . . - call a Meeting, the Magistrates sh6uld charg Lord BINNING opposed both the Amendments. selves with the public peace The Noble Lor As to the Amendment of the Noble Lord, he could not ever, seein g that this proposition was no more agree in the truth of his proposition, that the public able than the other, came at last to his um peace would be secure in any Meeting called by and proposed to take away the principle oti .twenty freeholders. On the contrary, he apprehended mad therefore he (Lord Castlerea g h) consid that a Meeting so ambled might be attended with lastposition the most untenable of all. Ili nion, that unless the • Noble Lord wished consequences as ..cleiricnental to the public peace as • o der the Bill entirely nugatory, he must with; 'any of these assemblies which were recently too foe- quent in the country.. To give such a power of call t h e three p rositions ' Ong the People together •as that now demanded, Sir C. MONCK was surprised that the Nol would be manifestly incompatible with the principle ( C astler eagh ) considered it a new proposition of the Bill, which secured the public peace in Inc Leriii bra Magistrate ought to comply wit case by the instrumentality thrmigh which it w question to call a Meeting. Whenevd as ik a was intrusted with authority, -any person su called, and in the other by the nunibers to whiclfot that authority might call on him to exerci! was limited. He denied it to be universally true, the protection of his rights; and if, under , 'that those who were appointed Sheriffs In Scotlind, cumstances, a Magistrate refused the prole Were to be considered as in their way to further p quired, the Court of King's Bench might motion. In fact, there were as many Magistrates Mandamus to compel him. • there attached to opposition • politics as to those of the Ministry. He trusted, therefore, that all those Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he had thou 100 valued the liberties of the Peo ple, vejlich were was no great inconveniedce in discussing the ircold_ propositions together, because the principle 1 best protected by this Bill as it now sto od, cold slit the Amewdment of the Noble Lord. ' was the same; but now the Committee wo ling into a. Lord EBRINGTON expressed his belief, milt the wide field. Mr. J. P. GRANT observed, that that,w power which the Noble Lord's Amendment sought to the manner in which the Bill was drawn to commis to twenty freeholders of £lOO a-year Sir CHARLES MONCK wished to knov eech, might be very safely entrusted to them, for he state the Noble Lord's Amendment, and Tilt assured that there was not a class of people in of House was to vote? Be wished to know w 1 she country more sincerely attached to the Consti tn- be Sheriff should compellable to call a Cour teen than those included under this description . . Heing on the Requisition of twenty freeholder! would give his cordial support to the Amendment. a - objection ? He had no to raise the qua Lord CASTLEREAGH begged the Committee to £2OO, or even ZOO, but be was anxious to recollect, that, as he had observed last night in the twins of the Amendment precisely? the House; the enactments of this Bill did not extend Lord FOLKSTONE wished the House t to Meetings held . within doors. The Bill was di- stand the proposition of his Honourable F rested only' against those assemblies, whieb; by hind him (Mr. Kennedy) which he was sun !wing held in the open .air, were rendered by their generally understood, as the situation of t wmbers and their military array, formidable to the missioner of' Supply in Scotland was co loyaland peaceablydisposed inhatlitayits of the coon- with that of freeholder. in England. He be by.--(Hear, hear!) . Committee to remark, that County Meetir Mr. BOSWELL suggested, that by omitting that be convened in England by Officers who .part of the 25th clause which preceded the words exist in Scotland, or who coula not by this * within that part of the United Kingdom tailed cite the power of calling Meetings. In Scotland," the power of calling a Meeting should be these were Lord Lieutenants as well as in 1 roegrved to the same Magistrates in Scotland as in but in Englarid they could call Meetings, 11• . Scotland they could not by the present 1 1 1 . 1neil R. HERON wished that some effectual alter- England them was a Custes Rotulornm, v , native should be at band in cases where the Sheriffs call - Monty Meetiogr ; in Scotland ther e labould refuse to call Meetings. Quorally speaking, such Officer. In England the Sheriff a the Sheriff's Of England were appbalted by the Crown. County Meetings, and the same power w! 'A list of three individnalswas promated, from which with the Sheriffs in Scotland ; but in that p die Crown appoineedoni to be Sbesiff of the County. kingdom, loOking to the Crown-tor pr Ititioncolleceed dist cases did Omer where Gen- Sheriffs could not be expected to be very ti . were appciotedeprifs whew names were not Meetings called to complain of grievances. lipOn the list so peaseited ' • and in one County he sand five Justices of the Peace could call ll Ipilaw that an individual served the office, who was In Scotland, if he rightly understood - the I Sired for, the purpose...if-ken hoer). It reflected , bald not. In Scotland there wax an Off if credit upon an Hoo. Friend of his, t h at . when could call County Meetings unknown in Et the office was offered to him, to.; - such terms, be re. be maintain Convener of the Commissioner ' ' Bit B. ply.; and this Officer was said to have the property of *ever refusing to assemble the upon a Requisition properly signed. TI Lot/ wOad there were such Officers id Souse 4&nities, hoverer,. might be throw I ~ ~, . - . 4..,.....fr0../....momill100111041Mrall"."` • . . '' i . .• ' : ~. . . , . . . . . . , . • • 1.1.111111111.11111.11.11111 I Trish Farlisment, during its 1 isf the Paso. He should add, that - he Weer there meat would not have subm were persons put in the Commission for the County did he now attempt to insult , . - of N 'rfolk, who were wholly unworthy of it, merely raged people? After havit for party purposes. The Honourable Member then than any other country ever - is , s went on to notice the refusal of Wle w inisters to the appli- declaring t hat the Peo p le cation f..r an inquiry into the MancheAer business. most tranquillity, he now t In his conscience he believed that Gove r nment was People by.this new me asure 4'; ~.t 1 1 411 ' ; implicated in that business. He could not help be- Catholics could meet in an: •.i, , / 1 having it—he wassorry for it—but in no other way tition agsinst grievances, w I. y mold he Account for their hostility to all inquiry. When . goo from a Magistrate: '. " ' l' their Attempt to take Harrison at. Smithfreld had , what necessity was there for • tailed in producing resistance, they of course wished ; of the Empirre where there _ . io.kick up a riot some way or another. 1 1 There were no manufactures _ __ _s_ ..... ~s .u. lan srd intimated. The argument was ' din pi Nice was offered to hisu, slot such terms, he re.. he meant Abe Convene' vith regard to the Constmegossess in grog. fused it—(4 Armour fry ef *dim). 131 i• B. ply.; and this Officer keir cii!sdilleadoo, he believed. was £lOO Heiou said, that be could , not think of hold in g up an property of never refu ; and it should also _ be remembered, that ladividuel to public by naming Ilse roMtle- wpou a Requisition ao.Orsad Jury hseml. man who was hireaft . p office; lulls would LOrit *Abed there lr rho were the Sheriffs la Iketland lb 'Were sane tjta Cleatlamaiirlp had refusid it. The Oinv Soule tl,fteltieer tiow • • • • • • • , . • of the Canty o f Isl stated, that M r . fear, hear, from th e tined that, Mr. C a l was several year, . alluded was made ' said, that if the t'd P'esent....i to the Cr of Sheriff, the Crown 1. itted this to be tru e But who was , to :cure ? iway) rose to reca) to the. queqion im 'eived that the Nob], irect opposition to t: 4 and if that Amend no time in a,king lez and—(44 laugh). Re ht be twenty freeh c £lOO a year each, AI Thera might eve,: had something to lox a~~ 4 l ~ ' • . • • • • • .:; i ; i ~:;~: COTTON FACTORIES. F`. Sir ROBERT PEEL called the attention of the - House to an ALE that was passed during the last Ses sion Er limiting the hairs of employing persons in the Cotton Manufactories. There was now reason to fear that many persons would be out of employ; and he conceived it would be necessary to alter that Act, so far as related to the limited hours of working.— He therefore moved for leave to bring in a BM to amend the Act of last Session relative to the Cotton Factories, and the prelervation of the health of the young persons employed therein. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON heartily con curred in the measure, because, if unfortunate men were suffering from a want of employment. it was proper they should have the means of getting a sub sistence at any hours, otherwise they woulB not only be sufferers themselves, but they would aggravate the sufferings of the People. Mr. PHIPPS wished to warn the House, against the danger of legislating on any subject fur regulat ing the business of free labour. The best proof of the mischief of such a practice was the necessity which has appeared of amending the Act of last Ses sion ; and now it seemed that a legislative sanction was to be given to a most disgraceful practice, that of employing workmen at night. . Mr. BROUGHAM did not conceive that an omis sion which took place in a former Bill was a reason why the present Bill should net be introduced, for the purpose of correcting that omission. Mr. KIRKMAN FINLAY thought the former Act full of omissions, and that ,there was no possibility of regulating subjects of thi; kind without encountering the most serious inconveniences. The best remedy ,ct, which was found before it was put in bring in the Bill. etas BILL. 3ved, that the House Committee on this the SPRAKEIR do leave' he begged leave to 'le Lord to the great measure to Ireland, where or disturbance, that that country. No man to protect the peace . country against any out it:pitted there. The House, that on the night When the forward this measure, he* farther than to express state of that country ; his speeches, signify his of pains and penalties so, he (Mr. Hutchin s the point, and resisted such pains and penalties ' such a thing to the • . i , Mr. kIRIEMAN FINLAY tho 1 1 1 • full of omissions, and that ,there 1 • regulating subjects of thi; kind w • r !k, the most serious inconveniences. .. e •• . k. , I would be to repeal the former Al 1 . so troublesome, altogether, eves' • - i 0 . . • - forse.--Leave was given to bring 1 • • ti : . . ISITDITIOLIS MISTING: 1 , ' i .. . Lord CASTLEREAGH mov . !. ..: ,. de again resolve itself into a Col , 4 c . ! 'And on the question, that the ' the Chair? ) ,r • Mr. HUTCHINSON said, h . s .i. , call the attention of the Noble . hardship of extending this mess!. i . 541 - • there was no sort of danger c '. . : ' • ' • could render it necessary in that . i 11 ' ; • . I was more anxious than himself I able inhatants of his own eon! rages that might be committed however, would recollect, that at ' , .. Noble Lord first brought forwa i '' ) 1 , ' never mentioned Ireland, any fai ~1 . • 4 .'. ' • his satisfaction at the tranquil st • • k'.• ' . but he did not, in any one of his intention of extending this Rill o l I • , . to Ireland ; said if he had done i • • 1 • son) would have Anet him on th ILil l - • . his attempt of introducing such :Fr' 1 . iato Ittlaad. .. Had he Proposed s • 4 • ... • . . • . 1 . t 1 , • , . thee was Beside,' who ..