Star. — London, England, 1819-03-02 00:00:00

prem ature condemnation upon them, before hay -J. rtained their deficiencies. He should be o r t e o listen to the Honourable and Learlod Gen -14"„ tomorrow, and to receive any correction from hm . 1 ' 6112- asubject which had but lately occupied his on ast icreagh's) . mind, whilst it had been long ibonl 23 ' a frequerftly considered by the Honourable and toned Member. He cautioned him, 'however, utging the principle .of practical reform, tgainst suffering the passions to be too much inflamed, exaggerated view of existing evils. For r.2.ener.i„yin?, an lly happened, that when the mind had been 1 1 -r oed from those exaggerations, it was disposed to to r indifferent to what rematned, as objects of corn tivelv trifling importance. The increase of crimes I .„3 Farj impo'sed on the Legislature the duty of inquiring their causes and the means of their removal. 1-I, e n umber of criminals of different classes Eng land and Wales for the last four or five years was rare than doubled ; and, if compared with that at ,:ccontmencement of a' period of ten years, had in •,,ed in the proportion of three to one. Many cir t,i,:instances, however, induced a hope that so great v ., increase of crimes could be traced to temporary pies. The whole system, and almost nature of the coary Lad been so altered,during the last twenty -,tars, that the views given of it at that period were ;.o longer applicable. It had taken a shape—it had ,wtlied to a size. The growth of so many country tc ,, to i, the enlarl;ernent of the Metropolis, and the in.. r ee in our manufacturing districts, had, in latter , cz: s, enlarged the sphere of moral corruption and of crime. More than one half of the increase in, t:-.°lluniber of criminals in England and \Vales pro wled from the live following counties—Lancashire, Niddlesex, Surrey (that part of it connected with the Metropolis), Warwickshire (which contained the po pulous town of Birmingham), and Yorkshire, where our manufactures had extended themselves so far.— The growth of crime had followed the growth of great cities and of manufactures. Among the latter, hose of cotton had prodigiously increased: whereas they formerly produced goods to the amount of three or four millions sterling, they had within the last years raised their produce to sixteen millions. A great increase of population had also taken place, and to this were to be added the three or four hun dred thousand individuals from the Arm* the. Navy, and the Militia, which peace had thrown back upon the country. Much, therefore, of the mass of crime vas connected with temporary causes. Not only hail those men been thrown out of a service which ha not formed them to habits of industry, but there had fallen on this country such a degree of pressure of difficulties, of want of employment, and lowness of wages, forcing the poor to come on their parishes for relief, as constituted an amount of distress greater than had ever been knowit. All these causes opera- ted in an aggravated manner to the production of crime; and whilst the vast extent of die evil was ad mined, there remained no option but resolutely to rive against it. Lapse of time, and a return to the habits of industry, would greatly diminish its amount, for it was chiefly in passing from one state of live lthood to another, that the temptations to dishonesty acted with the greatest force—(Hear, hear, hear 1) Thu was a fair picture of the present state of crimes in this country, and of the prospect of their removal. Other consolatory hopes opened from no additional . pinciple of immorality having attached itself to out rational habits. If the offences against property, occasioned by distress, were'separated from those of a blatker dye, the same increase of crime would not be traced in the latter. Far from it : there would wen be no positive increase in that class of offences, if compared with the account of the same crimes in former times when our population was smaller.— Murders had not.increased. The convictions for that crime had last year been fewer than during a great period of our history—(Hear, hear.) Neither had t:sere been any increase in the following crimes : Maiming, shooting, manslaughter, bigamy, assaults, rapes, and unnatural practices. Nay, there had been rather a diminution. The great MASS .of increase was in the crimes of forgery, larceny, burglary, and rob • eery. An Honourable Member opposite had,-with 1.; usual warmth, attributed the increase of forge ries to the neglect of the Bank. But an inquiry had since proved that the Bank had done ar,d was willing to do every thing in its power to renJer the imitation of its notes impracticable. There wits also too much, disposition to think that the augmentation of forge t:es had grown out of the stoppage of cash-payments and would cease with their resumption. This was c - ,tirely wrong, and no hope could be held out that tae opening of the Bank would produce a correspond irg reduction in that class of offences. But though tr.:: number of forgeries had increased, that of execu- Lora for the crime had been less during the last eight or ten years, than during the eight or ten which had receded. If the period which had elapsed since the imposition of the Bank Restrictions was divided into two, it would be found that the executions for forgery gad been fewer during the latter than the former part. As to burglaries and robberies, they had increased in a minor proportion, and it was satisfactory to find thzt they did no t bear the same character of atrocious •;r.. , .ence and cruelty as in former periods. There was a:to an additional proof that the increase of crimes ought to be in a great measure attributed to tempo ritry circumstances. That proof was found in the small augMentation which' had taken place in the -'amber of female offenders. It bore no proportion l l ' . . ,.. .atever to that of the males, and shewed that the t:-.llces had been chiefly committed by that sex, who been placed in a state of greater diliculties by ce.tation of w a r an d ot h er ca u s es. It was also .-t.ly ing to observe, that if the laws of the country : ;t:1 not been materially altered in the severity of Prov: , ions, their administration had been con c7cte.l wit!: great leniency. Notwithstanding the . gr >wth o f crime, there had been not only no ir.crease, but a diminution, in the number of vleakioni. In 1905, the number of sentences of passed was 3.so—in the last * year Ws'. But k:g fourteen years, out of those c nysitally fo:.victfid Li ;lily had been-ex ecu t e d wh ilst, in 1317, the 7ropialion was one in eleven . , and in IblB, one in zweive. The whole number or persons who had s.•:.i.erot! under the sentence of thuilaw in Great Bri curing the last year was 97, and tl.at number ..au nut varied for many years past. 1 here was a ilne when the number executed in London and Mid eieset alone exceeded thatwhich stow sufficed for the v•hele country. He held a document, from which it 1 4 1 aTed, t'iat immidiately after the conclo - ion of the American war, the 'number of executiorts for London and Middlesex alone was in the following proportions ; Iu 1783 - 1784 1701 • —lf he had not taken an erroneous view of the sub- ject; it was therefore clear that instead of increasing, the administration of the laws had diminished in se verity. The present state of crimes, however, was no doubt an evil of great magnitude, and of a nature likely to appal the House, if it were not traced to - - temporary causes. It had not taken a direction at - • • - - which our nature would revolt ; but one which cir- cumstarices had prescribed to it, and which exertion mem part of the Legislature might ultimately cor rect. An Honourable Member opposite had seemed disposed to attribute the increase of crime exclusively to the corriv r lions witnessed by . young offenders in prisons that were improperly administered. Ile (Lord Castlereagh) agreed with him to a certain extent; but the House would fall miserably short of its duty if it supposed that the great mass of .the increase arose from that single cause. There were others which required the best efforts to be used for their counteraction. Let the House lay its shoulders, not only to inquire into the state of prisons, hut into that of crimes, if it aeished to reach the evil. With a view to rendering secondary punishment effectual, an im portant question would open itself to the House. It would be necessary to consider whether Botany Bay had not assumed too much of a Colonial character to be an object of terror to offenders, and whether it would not ba proper to make some new arrangement for their transponation, which would add more dread to their sentence than what arose from the humanity with which they wefe sent to that Colony, (notwithstanding what had been asserted by an Ho nourable Member), and treated during their exile.— So far from creating apprehension, many persons re ceived the order of going to Botany Bay, as an in dulgence rather than a punishment. If the terrors of the law were so blunted, was it wonderful that crime should increase? He would not now enter into an examination of the state of our criminal law. He had shewn that it was administered with lenity, 'and if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman took it in the, abstract, be would impute a character to it which did not belong to its practical administration, It might be a question whether it was politic that our law should demand the penalty of death for offences which no other country visited so severely ? but it would be a most difficult and anxious consideration how to deal with crithe when it assumes a different character from the circumstances with which it is "attended. To suppose that it „would be possible to graduate the scale of punishment so as to meet all lshades of guilt, would be to suppose a perfection, or' rather an imperfection, in our Penal Code, which would strip mercy of that judgment and discretion with which it is now invested. If punishments were pitched too low, all their terrors would vanish ; and if, in those crimes in which the sacrifice of life is re quired, an attempt was made to graduate -punish ments, instead of leaving it to the Judge to 'measure it according to the circumstances of the case, a direct encouragement would be held out. to guilt. He hoped that the Honourable and Learned Gen tleman felt as he did, that there was no separate interest between them, and that they had but one common object—a most laborious investigation into the state of crimes and punishments. He submit ted to the House that the only way to render that inquiry effectual was to collect it into one focus.— If it were dispersed amongst different Committees, the exertions of some of the ablest Members would be lost to the 'louse; because they would be confined to one branch of the subject, instead of being applied to the concoction of the whole. The chief object of the inquiry might be thus defeated. On these grounds he trusted the House would accept the Committee which he intended to propose. If the number of its Members was thought too limited, he should not object to add to it from time to time, in order that the most -comprehensive view of so great and important a subject should be submitted to the House. He should move for the Committee in the form of a notice, in which he had placed every term which could tend to make the inquiry as comprehensive as . possible. If it were not found so, he should be willing to, amend his motion in any manner which could add to its ef fect. Ile. deprecated any effort to inflame the pas sions of the multitude, and to make them fancy that a boon was about to be given to crime. Nothing could be more unstatesmanlike than such a course, and lie trusted the question would be discussed on practical grounds, and not on abstract principles of untried combinations. He then moved, that a Com mittee be appointed to inquire into the state and de scription of Gaols and other places of confinement, and into the best method of providing for the refor mation, as well as the safe custody and punishment, of -offenders. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH rose, rather because it might seem want of courtesy on his part not to re ply, when he had been so frequently adverted to, than from any wish to interfere to the present stage of the debate—(hear, hear.) —The Noble Lord, in the eloquent and able speech which he had just con chided, had said a great deal in reference to his (Sir J. Mackintosh's) Motion, but hardly any thing in ex ; planation of his own. For himself, hs had already stated his determination sot to open the merits of his ensuing Motion before it came on. He should not follow the Noble Lord, in replying to the objec tions he had made to that Motion ; but when it came on to-morrow, he should urge whatever "he might feel necessary ; and if the louse judged proper, it would a course reject it. He should to-morrow move, That a Select Committee be appointed to consider the operation and nature 'of the Criminal Laws, # relative to the Capital Punishment of Felony." 'When the Noble Lord thought proper to admonish him against exercising those arts which might excite the minds of criminals, lie nuist take the liberty of say ing, that such admonition was perfectly unnecessary addressed to him. If he possesseit the power even of exciting one dormant feeling in those men, he should shrink from the imputation of doing so, if it , wnre likely to influence the discussion of so grave a question. The Noble Lord need not have made the allusion ; fir neither on this nor on any other oecision was it possible for him (Sir James Mackintosh) tb de-* viate froth that love, respect, and reverence, which he should ever entertain for the laws sod for hist country—(Hear, hear)--The best poi be OW adduce •of the sincerity of those • feelings Was, he thought, the notice he should submit on the question before the House: that question involved the consi &ration of the three grand punishments—death, transportation,' and imprisonment. Mr. LAWSON said, that where the subject was so spliced and complicated as the one now before them, so completely a "a ria juncta in uro,". he thought it s impossible to separate the consideration of the matters it involved. The Learned and Honour able Gentleman might have three distinct Commit tees; but it would be found impossible, by each, to consider the one question without entering into the other. That which should consider death, must first inquire into the effect and intention of transportation, and so on, till every successive Committee, let him have as many as he pleased, discovered that it had all the labours of all the preceding ones to go through. Considering all that had been said as to the increase of crime, is must be clear that increase of penalty must be most ineffectual to repress it ; they might go on extending it until penalty itself became a nonentity. Ours was not a code of laws reedy cut and dried 14 every particular emergency, brit had grown with the increase of crimes—and were they to annihilate, or, at any rate, re-model those laws which regarded the welfare of the good and loyal, rather than that of the vicious and depraved? Were they now to exert that zeal which they had so lately manifested in be• half of the sacredness of private property, in favour of those who were its greatest enemies and declared depredators? The Committee proposed by the Noble Lord would have to inquire not merely into the state of jails and houses of correction, but into the pro priety of the punishments that were inflicted, and into the extent of local jurisdictions. This latter branch of inquiry was one of peculiar importance in some parts of the kingdom, and especially in Scotland.— One of the reasons assigned for the melancholy and deplorable state of the prisons in that part of Great Britain was, that there were no funds provided for• their maintenance. In Ireland the case was nearly the same. But the Committee would have further to inqure into the system of regulations which pre trailed' in each separate jail ; and having had some ex perience on this subject, he was persuaded, that with all the zeal which could be applied by different Mem bers, it would be found impossible to investigate the condition of more than two or three jails in the course of a Session. If the Noble Lord meant that viva toce evidence should be produced—and without it the object in view must be frustrated—it would scarcely be possible for a septennial Parliament to fill up the out line pointed out by the terms ot theNoirleLord's motion. But the present state of Botany Bay was another sub ject which was also to be submitted to the conside ration of the Committee, and in connexion with it, the infliction of capital punishments. Was the House apprised that there were not less than 1.5--s - eatirtes . , appertaining to and constituting the Criminnl Law of the country? The Noble Lord had suggested the idea of a Committee, subdividing itself into Bureaus, composed respectively of three, five, or seven mem bers, and carrying on a contemporaneous inquiry into different parts of the subject. TO him such a project appeared to.be as contrary to parliamentary practice as to the dictates of common sense. As respected the state of Botany Bay, .he .had reason to believe that it had been in contemplation to settle a new colony, of a somewhat different character, in that part of the globe, and that for this*purpose the survey had been ordered to be made. He trusted, however, that the important consideration of the expense necessarily at tendant on all such undertakings would not be over looked. Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that the object in view, when the survey was appointed, was to as certain-whether the Colony was not overgrown, and whether some more eligible' spot for a settlement might not be discovered. Mr. C. W. WYNN thought the strongest objection was not to the motion of the Noble Lord, but to the statements and explanations with which he had ac companied it. It was evidently impossible that any Committee could, in a reasonable time, get through the examination embraced by the terms of the Noble 'Lord's motion. But he objected also to the appoint ment of a Committee with such large powers, and for purposes not specified, but to be understood only by implication.—( Hear, hear.)—lt was the business of a Committee to collect details, and to communi cate information to the House ; but it was for the House itself to form a final opinion. With regard to the formation of Sub-Committees, pursuing different branches of the inquiry, and communicating the re sult to the whole Body as a focus, the an-angement was undoubtedly good; but he should wish to see the House appoint these different Committees, and to have the result of their labours brought also at once before the House. It was too much the practice to appoint Committees on particular subjects, from year to year, and to imagine that the whole labour of considering them had devolved from the House upon those Committees. The history of this country would, however, furnish instances of the danger at tending such a practice, and the negligently permit sing Committees to draw to themselves the powers of the whole House. knowing, as he did, that an inquiry into the Prisons of the Metropolis alone had occupied a whole Session, that a considerable diffe rence of opinion existed as to the rights of the City of London and County of Middlesex, and considering that the objects included in the Motion were so van. ous 'as well as important, .he could not but conclude that it would be beyond the power of one Parliament sAtisfactorily- to execute such an inquiry. With se- Tect to the Motion which was to be brought forward to-morrow (this day), he was of opinion that it would be better to refer it to a Committee of the whole House than to a Committee up stairs. It alpearad that thetitatutes at large would be brought, into dis cussion, and after the examples which the House had had of Committees exceeding the powers intrusted to them, he thought they should be captiou4how they appointed any with a vague and undefined authority. Even admitting that two adequate Conmiittees could not be formed at the Saul time, it might be better to F postpone one inquiry, than to prosecute both in the manner suggested by the Noble Lord. Alderman WOOD observed, that he should not hav‘offmTd himself to the attention' of the House, had It nOchain . for the Noble Loi'd's observation with ,iesPeet to ilhcharged soldiers. Having had a good Weal of experience, he could assure the House, that not above me inst bandied bid been convicted of a cria . ie withµ thsjurisdietiOa of tile, city. Sometimes &tor GO persons, chiefly sailors, were brought before the Magi .trates, but it was in th situation of . paupers requiring to be passed to their homes. The great me crease of crimes was to be ascribed to the promisch— ons congregation of prisoners left without employe ment. lie had, by virtue of an authority from Lord Sichnouth, visited all the gaols in the country, and was convinced that it would Luce six or seven years to make an efficient Parliamentary inquiry. If it could be done in consistency with the orders of the House, he should move that the evidence taken before the former Committee should be laid before the present. Mr. BUXTON said, he supposed the object of the Noble Lord was to bring forward some general legi slative measure upon the Report of the Committee. Nothing cbuld be more deplorable than the situation of a young boy committed, perhaps, at first for some minor offence, to one of our gaols, which he deemed only receptacles of crime. Every trade required in. . struction, and the trade of fraud, no doubt, required it like all others. A gaol was a seminary of fraud, and to this the boy was committed; he had a disin clination to work, and he was associated with the idle and debauched ; he liked bad company, and be was introduced into the worst—(flour, /sear). It was mise rable to see the facility with which such unhappy crea tures adopted the manners, the phraseology, and the. tone of the hardened offenders they associated with ; how soon they became ambitions to rival the most desperate ; for there was a species of credit attached to such emulation in this fraternity of rogues—(blear, • hear.)—At length the young offender, thus tutored and broke in, bee:Aare a villain; and ho was made such by a public institittion—(hear, hear). The question was then put, and carried in the af firmative. The following Aembers were among those appointed on the Committee : Lord CIS' lercagh, Mr. Clive; Mr. Calming, fir. Wilmot, Sir J. Mackintosh, Mr. V. fitzgerahl, Mr. Buxton Sir J. Newport. Mr. Brough am, ?Or. As!ell, Mr. Bennet, The Attorney-Cencral, Sir W. Scott, . Mr. Wiiberiorce, Mr. Serjeant Copley, Sir William C4r-isi Sir A. Piggott, Mr. S Wortliy. BANK or ENGLAND. Mr. CALLAGHAN rose to move for an Account of aj. Bauk Notes and Post Bills in circulation for each day, from the 25th of January to the Ist 'of March, 1819. He Said that his intention in moving for this Account was, that it might shew the cause of the extraordinai y depreciation in the money market in London. If it appeared that the Bank had reduced its issues, that might account for the extraordinary depreciation which had taken place in public securi ties. But if, on the other hand, it should appear that there was not an unusual diminution in the is sues, it would tend to remove 'an imputation from the Bank of its endeavouring to niggle out its ac commodations to the mercantile community, with an • illiberal, and at the same time, a contracted hand. If the present state of things affected only funded property, it would. tend to remove the alarms now prevailing as to that species of property. But he thought that the present state of things threatened such injury to trade in general, and he thought that any thing which the Chancellor of the Exchequer might think he could with saletertate on this sub ject would have a very tranquillizing effect. It was probable that some time must elapse before the Re port of the Secret Committee could be presented ; and if in the mean time it could be very beneficial if any assurance was given to the public, that in the trausactions with the Bank no measure would be adopted tending to the further reduction of the issues, till the Report of the Committee was presented, and discussed in the Ikuse. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex pressed himself much obliged to the Honourable Gentleman. for making this motion, as it afforded him an opportunity of giving sonic explanation on a subject of considerable importance. The actual amount of issues by the Bank, instead of being mate rially reduced, stood much higher than they had been on the (25th of January. Exaggerations and mis representations prevailed to a great extent on this point ; but it would be expedient to deter any full discussion of the subject till the Report of the Com mittee was presented. It was very important that this Report should not be hurried, but well considered. Thkra was only one case in which it would have been justifiable to have an immediate report; and that was, if it had been thought necessary that cash payments should be resumed on the 21;th July. He hoped, however, that when the Report was presented, and the subject discussed, the country would recover from !its present alarm, and trust to the wisdom of the House, without supposing that any precipitate or ill advised measure was in ontemplation. 1111-. ELLICE said, that great alarm had certainly prevailed, eTecielly from the report of the reduction of its issue by the Bank. He must acknowledge that more was expected from the Bank than it could per. form. He wished to know what part of the sum due to the Bank had been paid by the Government during the present year The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he had no difficultz in stating that no repay ment had been made to the Bank this year. The debt still stood at about £.5,00'.),CG0. Last year pre vision had heen made for the repayment of 8,000,0001, but in such a way as left the amount uncertain, as the Loan was transacted in such a way that patt was to be taken in money, and part in Exchequer Bills, and the proportions could not he exactly foreseen—as it turned out the larger proportion.—Adjourned. wr.sTmrNsTER ELECTION. In the early cart of yesterday morning the bustle on the IL:stings was by no means propoitioned to the interest with which the arproaching conclusion of the contest is contemplated. But the crowd became im mense towards the close of the poll, and the loudest vociferations were uttered by the friends of the re spective Candidates.—" Lamb for ever 1"—" Hot huuse ever!" resounded fromiditTerent bodies ; and the " Old Major" was not forgotten by a few of the old sticklers for " Radical Reform." So anxious were the friends of the Candidates to promote their respective views, that hackney coaches were rattling in all directions to convey Electors to the poll. . At three o'clock the strongest symptoms of iproat were manifested in the crowd—sonsti attibuted k to the disappointed zeal of one pasty, others to the ap pearance of some of the corps of regular pugilists, who Ibught Unix' witY 449 d tilicte'tpa, of s. . i; 1 ii I