Star. — London, England, 1819-10-06 00:00:00

( i 1. v F R a ..• • L 11 r e a ( ( 1: I s c 1 1 1 ! . , :IP f i id .1 1 I PP AP cor.osil —c , I remove you for contellvt of 4:Wirt C'...cer, take him away's" Tbe Officer then cmne . to ,yne and tpuilsed me oft . back. I turned about, and told hint. to be quiet m cntent, and I should accompany him. He was rc.to take me away. t '., l „.„ ER —.. Take out the Gentleman, but use no r.c.c force than is absolutely necessary." rr, TAKE It" I protest against this proceeding, it, ;di is contrary to the spirit of a Court of Law, vi cannot help declaring that you are using a most aathority." Astr.roarir—" The Coroner is amenable for and will be ready to defend it ; but I tell that he is completely justified.' . :;. T A ER —" He cannot be justified in violating I:',erty of the subject, which he has done in this most effectually." The Oilicer who first came to me was now joined : , ,other, and both seized me, and were pulling re towards the door, when having been told by an excellert anthority, that the assault was as complete ; if I had be,:n taken out of Court, I asked the OE:cr Vs name, to which he answered " Joseph 0 1 . 1 1.„ then turned to the Coroner, and asked wl:Lt:!er, if I should not take notes, there would be still ?ay objection to my remaining in the room ? 'l7:e Canner at first hesitated, but after a short con s.ll...ttion villa NIT. Ashworth, he requested that I. , ; 11 be seated : when, having now obtained' my 0 1; ; cct, I told him my name, and he proceeded to M;. lt..)ss took no notes during this conversation, moment it was over he tell to " tooth and - thi, moment another Gentleman stood up, 3;: .. to be allowed to observe, that the publi cation c t!; evidence might be punished if' it v.: il legii—but that it was contrary to law, to the y er sr,rit of law, and to the practice of our Courts, tc t.-1!)id acing ane's hand in noting what took place! N FR.—And who arc you, Sir? to , mected with The _Times._ - _ COPINER.—Why, then, I shall hear nothing you have to say !—But, Sir, you surely proceed upon the ordinary principles of law and justice? • CORONSIL—You were the first to publish. M. Asiiwownt her io e o a d gerly caught up the thread ot Lis oration.. His ran cold when he heard nentes mentioned. The. Coroner was exclusively judge of what was evidence, of what evidence aught to be received, and he was responsible for any ille g dity committed. When thcre was an end ot law, then he and all were outlaws, and liable to be cut down by any who met them. (The remaining changes were rung upon London law, and the power of a Coroner.) Co toNk.a.—Mr. Ross, are you taking notes? 'Mr. Ross.—You told me that my word was not to IN: believed ; therefore, I answer no more. k:olit , Nl:l4.-1 restrain you flout writing. ('Jr. Ross continued to write.) Caaestnt.—(llaving .been repeatedly pressed by pers,,rs around his table.) Are you still writing, R. ? (No answer.) I desire you to desist ; you will l: lei/loved out of Court if you continue to write. (After a tonsiderable interval) Constables take him out. (Here a Constable touched Mr. Ross's shoulder, but he was immoveable, and wrote on: a second and third tug sere given, and frequent admonitions, but to no etlect. Mr. Ross seemed insensible to all the bustle.) Mr. a snwortrit, (really looking kindly)—Can't jon give a pledge? Mr. Ross, -It has been refused. My word is not to be believed. Cossr:sa.—Nlr. Ross, yon treat me contemp tunusly : you must be removed. The Gentleman who before stated himself to be con wcted with The Times, here urged, that the Learned Gentleman (Mr. Ashworth) be should hope, would be an:.:Aus that his observations might be correctly " The Learned Gentleman considers the law al he lays it down, most important for the correction of what he calls the erroneous law of the other side : I pot it therefore to him, whether he would not wish to see his doctrines fairly and distinctly described to the Pit'alic CerioKre.There is no chance of fairness in The Tine:. —The Gentleman replied, that he disclaimed this imputation on that Journal with the utmost in dignation; nor could he conceive that the power of a Coroner extended to the casting of such reproaches critt , pectable and honourable men. CcaloNEn.—Sir, I will not be replied to. Consta- LI:. take away this Gentleman as well as Mr. Ross. The Gentleman (to the Constable)—l will go with rra presently. (To the Coroner.) I should hope, Sir, that before you shut my mouth, you will hear tae v ,, ry little I have to say. l',,.fteNkn—l cannot be interrupted. I will not. litre, I adjourn the Court directly. (He accord hr,t rose op to adjourn the Court.) The Geialeman—As I wish but to say one word, rny iliterniption can hardly be a sufficient reason for 41j-01:ring the Court. nos E,lt sat down. The constable went away •tii Mr. R oss , b ut did nit come again to the second ~::"Lnlan. The Coroner, however, remarked, that P"C Pnt speaker had not been spoken to by the and that he, therefore, had no right to make • , i on. Coroner, you addressed and pro-1 " • order out of Court, a Gentleman, who, as y pelf, is connected with The Times News • ; and it was on this ground that. I ventured to •;lyelf to your notice. (The Coroner seemed ••ed to interrupt, and the Gentleman pro • I am convinced, Sir, and have no hesitation -.:,r.otwitlis-.anclingthe unfair motives which .• ‘) others, that your own object is a fair t': tt you want nothing- but justice. Now, cu, whether that end is more likely to d 1 )y seich an imperfect Report of the pro iv;:n.ury can supply, thau by a full trait :u -._e taken c.n the spot ? 1 have already said that I prohibit t •''" ., g. I have the power, and I will du it. )ou had the power, which ,•.tLeheve '• 7! • : . . -1 iliwoa ris—Thz CeLoa:x has uudoubtefily the power. The first opinions have been taken, and I pledge My own opinion professionally as a Barris ter to the same point. Answer—Well, Sir, I am not in a situation to dis pute that point with you; bet as you have done me the honour to address me, I ask you for your pro fessional judgment on the other point, whether, grant ing the power to prevent note-taking, such a restraint is wise, or calculated to do good; it being, as I have stated, impossible to give so correct a report from memory as from notes? Mt. ASHWORTR—Yon know that it is even sald, that should not be published at all, at least till fi nal reports are had. Answer—Allowing that, Sir, will not the additional lapse of time make it still more necessary to publish from notes rather than from memory? .Mr. Asnworrn—l really conceive I have nothing to do with a question which is between the Coroner and you : he has the power ; and it is your business, as it is mine, to submit here to his decision. The politeness and the apparent tone of regret at what had taken place which accompanied this re mark, pr evented the person addressed from a s king why Mr. Ashworth, if he bad nothing to do with the question, had interfered with his opinion ? The Gen tleman spoke, however, to the Coroner once more— " Allow me, Mr. Coroner, to repeat my very short observation I again appeal to you, whether the ends of justice are more likely to be attained by an imper- , fect report from memory, or by a full distinct tran script from notes written at the timer The Coroner, like, Mr. Ashworth, had the appear ance of regretti ng the prohibition, but did not see how he cou ld - w ell retract: he hesitated for a minute, and then said—" Sir, I have taken opinions on the subject : I have the power, and I must restrain note taking." The Gentleman, feeling that it would be improper to interrupt business any farther, bowed, but re mained in Court. Mr. AMIWORTM, in continuance of his speech, de precated the ex-parte publications which had gone abroad upon-the subject of this Inquest, and espe cially in the groundless charges which had been pro pagated against the character of some of the most respectable inhabitants of Manchester—Mr. Birley, for instance, had the imputation of cutting and maim ing, if not of murder, cast upon him, although he (Mr. A.) was prepared w ith ample evidence to shew that that respectable Gentleman had not directed his sward against any human being throughout the 16th of August. " Then," said the Reprrter of the Morning Chro- , nide, addressing himself to the Coroner, " is it not due to public justice, as well as the private charac ter of this individual, to let us take notes of the evi dence in exculpation, which the Learned Advocate proposes to bring forward ? As the evidence for the accusation of this Mr. Birley and others has been so fully made public, would it not be fair, Sir, to al low any evidence that can be adduced in their vindi cation to be published also? and this the public jour nals cannot do unless you allow us to take notes." CORONER.—.-I am determined not to allow either you or Ne-Times to take any notes. Mr. Asnwoarn, after expressing his approbation of the order issued by the Coroner, to prevent the publication of the evidence taken upon this Inquest, pursued his argument :—Great pains had, he ob served, been taken to saddle all the injuries resulting from the dispersion of the Meeting of the 16th of Au gust upon the Manchester Yeomanry, as if that Corps alone interfered to produce the dispersion. But he could state, from his own personal knowledge, that there were several military bodies on the field, en gaged in dispersing the Meeting, as well as the Corps alluded to. He did not, however, think that the con duct of that Corps, or of the several bodies with which it co-operated, could properly be brought into dis cussion before that Court, unless the person who gave John Lees the blow, that blow to which his death was attributed, were actually identified. Some individual or individuals must, he contended, be pointed out as the assailant or assailants of the deceased, and so a distinct charge established, before evidence could be gone into with respect to aiding and abetting the attack. For it could not follow, that because the Magistrates ordered a military force to disperse the Meeting alluded to, that any act done besides the ob ject of that dispersion, which he maintained to be quite a legal object, could be said to implicate the whole body acting in pursuance of the orders of the Manchester Magistracy. How, for instance, could lie legally hold or rationally maintain, that mili tary men scattered throughout the wide area of Saint Peter's-field, should be deemed responsible for every unauthorized or violent act done imme• dtately near the hustings, where John Lees was stated to have received his mortal wound ? The idea was, indeed, quite preposterous, and yet that appeared to be the idea of the Learned Gentle man on the other side, when he urged his very broad doctrine with respect to principals and acces saries in murder. The Learned Gentleman was, however, egregiously mistaken in his views of the law. For a body of persons, engaged in the pursuit of one common object, could never fairly or legally be held answerable for what any one or more of that body might happen to do, independently of that ob ject. Therefore, it could never be maintained, that because the Manchester Yeomanry were, along with other military bodies, engaged in accomplishing the object of dispersing the Meeting at St. Peter's-field, that they, or any part of them, were to be implicated in the crime of taking away the life of John Lees, which was the subject under investigation, except the individual or individuals who actually attacked - the deceased, or those who were immediately present aiding or abetting that attack. No evidence, then, %vac, in 'his opinion, admissible upon this inquiry, which did not directly apply to the individuals en gaged in that attack ; and as to the admissibility of evidence, of that he thought the Coroner was the sole and exclusive judge. to guard, then, against the intrusion of irrelevant and inadmissible evidence, as well as to save the time of the Court, he recom mended that before any witness was, in future, brought forward for examination, a written state ment should be laid before the Coroner, of the points which the witness proposed to prove. Mr. HARMER observed, that although the Learned Gentleman had spoken for above an hour, he had not quoted a single case in support of his view of the law with respect to principals in murder. The Learned Gentleman had gratuitously stated that the Magis- trates had actually issued the order for the cline of! John Whittaker—l saw tees on his return fritn the Cavalry cn the 16th of August; and, if so, he Manchester, when he complained of being severely (Mr. Harmer) was prepared to maintain, that those wounded. I saw him-alto on the Wednesday before Magistrates were parties to, and legally responsible his death, and he looked extremely ill. He was in for all the melancholy results of that charge. The excellent health before the Manchester Meeting. Learned Gentleman appeared to express some stir- Joseph Clegg deposed to having seen the deceased prise that the charge preferred in this case was not on the 22d di August, which was the Wake time, at extended to the 15th Hussars; hut that surprise would Middle.on. Was in company s% ith him in two pub cease, when he informed the Learned Gentleman that lie houses, when deceased drank some malt liquor, there was no evidence whatever to justify any imp- bir ap p eared very dejected. Cation on that corps. On the contrary. indeed, as his, Anna Jones-1 live in Windmill -street, Manches object in this prosecution was to convict those who : ter, within forty yards of the hustings. I saw the cut, and not those who saved the people, he should Cavalry cutting and slashing niets on their way to have to adduce evidence to shew that officers andlthe hustings. After getting to the hustings, they privates of the 15th Hussars, instead of being parties turned their horses round, and rode over the people to maiming or murder, were most meritoriously ac- in all directions, still cutting and slashing. A num tire in endeavouring to restrain the sanguinary fury ber of wounded per sons were taken into my house. of the Manchester Yeomanry. But some evidence I saw one of the Cavalry strike a woman, and draw to that effect had already been raid before the Court, blood. I was fully employed in palling people into and much more, he promised, was forthcoming.— my house, in order to save their lives. I saw a great -In opposition to the Learned Gentleman's view of quantity of blood on the field, near the place where the Law with respect to the doctrine of principals in the husLings had stood. One of the Special Constables crime, Mr. Harmer quoted a variety of cases from came into my house, and, with great triumph, ex the Reports of Plowden and Cook, he also stated. the claimed—" This is Waterloo for you !—this is Waa opinion of Mr. Justice Blackstone. From those cases terloo !" The soldiers whom I saw cutting, I knew and that opinion, he contended for that evidence to be the Manchester Yeomanry, from my acquaint which be proposed to adduce with respect to the cut- ance with their dress. The people, in great crowds, ting and maiming at St. Peter's-field, and.te idea- were getting away as fast as they could. I took city of the persons guilty of such cutting and maim- many into my house. The rail in front of my house ing, every person so guilty being, in his view; a piny broke down from the pressure of the crowd, occa in flee commission of murder. But it was to be in• sioned by the cutting of the Cavalry, and a woman ferred, from the Riot Act, that according , to the fell down, and was taken up dead. judgmentof the Legislature, persons even passive were John Jones, the husband of the last witness, cor to be deemed guilty, if they did not disperse within roborated all his wife's testimony , adding that he saw a given period. Here Mr. Harmer read the Statute Mr. Withington and Mr. Bowker, who were two of of Henry the Seventh, with resct to the nature of the Manchester Yeomanry, cutting at every one they the inquiry to be pursued, and of the evidence ad- could reach. An Officer, apparently of the regular missible before a Coroner. I.fpOn proceeding to read army, came up, and, shaking his sword, cried outa-- the Statute Law with regard to the duties and powers " For shame! for shame! Gentlemen. Forbear! for of a Coroner, Mr. Ferrand intereupted,Mr. Harmer, bear ! The people cannot get away."—From his observing that he did not require adyitiformation on windowhe saw the people lying in the Area, one upon that head. the other; and when taken out, they appeared black Mr. ASHWORTH, adverting to Mr. Harmer's allu- in the face, as if strangled. Withington and Bowker sion to the Riot Act, took occasion to dispel what lie continued cutting at the people, while they were called the very erroneous notion which had gone groaning and screaming, from the'pressure upon each abroad with regard to the necessity of rending that other, and imploring for mercy. To one poor man Act previous to any order for the dispersion of an he gave a bowl of water, and whilst he was drinking, illegal Meeting. He was surprised at the extent of a Special Constable came up and knocked it out of the error which prevailed upon this subject, as, ac- his hand. cording to common law, any illegal Meeting could At a quarter before sir, the Court adjourned till be legally dispersed without at all reading the Riot nine to-morrow morning. Act. All, indeed, that this Act had done, in aid of the powers with which the Magistracy were invested by the common law, was to pronounce it a felony on the part of those who continued together for one hour after such assembly was formally proclaimed illegal. After repeating and enforcing his former arguments, The CORONER decided, as he had done before, that no evidence should in future be admitted which did not directly refer to the attack upon John Lees, or to any cutting or maiming in the immediate vicinity of the hustings, when that attack was made. This de cision he thought it the more necessary distinctly to repeat, as application had been made to hifn on the evening of Saturday, for no less than 100 fresh sum monses, and he could not conceive any object for such an extraordinary application, unless to prolong or perplex the investigation. After some further remarks by Messrs. ASHWORTH and HA MI ER—• LEWES MEETING. A Requisition of several of the Housekeepers au Lewes having been presented to the Chief Officers of the Borough, requesting them to convene a Meeting for the purpose of considering the proceedings at Manchester on the 16th of August last, one of them declined all interference with the prayer of the Re quisitionists; but the other, Mr. STUART, acceded to the wishes of the Requisitionists, and on Monday last a Public Meeting' was held in the County Hall.— About 150 persons were present. The cause assigned for the assembly not being more numerous is, the Outrageous zeal of a few Radicals, who, ambitious to monopolize the honour of calling a Meeting, offended the great majority of more moderate Reformers. In Lewes there are many respectable and intelli gent men, who are known for their political opposi tion to the measures of Administration; but on this occasion they would not countenance the proceed ings of a Meeting, called for what they considered mere party purposes. There was little debate upon the several resolutions, which were nearly similar to those adopted in other places, and unanimously car ried. Messrs. JOHN MARTEN, JEREMIAH LARWILL. JOSHUA and SAMUEL MANTELL, and a Mr. GOLD, were the only speakers. An Address to the PRINCE REGENT, embodying the sentiments of the assembly was then agreed tot after which resolutions of thanks were voted to Mr. HUNT and the Chairman; and a subscription was proposed for the purpose of obtaining legal redress for the sufferers at Manchester. It is scarcely neces sary to state that the Meeting dispersed quietly. James Mills was examined.—l am a hatter, and reside in Oldham. Have been in John Lees's com pany once. Was not at the Manchester Meeting on the 16th August. Saw Lees at the West Wood Inn about twelve o'clock at night, who was there with some other company. Was with Lees about a quar ter of an hour. I left him there. He complained very much of his wounds, particularly of one on his elbow ; said he had received another on his left shoul der. Lees was not drunk, but rather fresh, as it ap peared to him. Was not long in his company. Lees appeared much as usual. Lees told witness he had been at the Meeting. Did not think he was in danger. His conduct was such as might become a person who had received a wound likely to cause his death ; but he did not appear as a man likely to die. He com plained very much. Some person slighted his wound, and he replied sharply. Lees told him that he had been at a wake at Middleton, and that he had had some sharp words with some persons there. Dr. Simmons being called, the evidence of Mr. Basnett and Mr. Cox was read over to him, and he declared, that from all that he had heard, the injuries which the deceased had received on the 16th of Au gust, were not, and could not, have been the cause of his death.—Here the Doctor, who said he had been Surgeon to the Manchester Infirmary for 27 years, entered into a long medical dissertation, to illustrate and enforce the justice of his opinion. This dissertation occupied the Court for nearly two hours. In reply to a question from a Juror, whether, al though the wounds of the deceased were not sufficient to produce death, they might not have been the cause of the disease which occasioned his death ? the Doctor answered in the negative, adding, that Lees had, be fore his death, recovered from all the dangerous con sequences of his wounds. By the FOREMAN—You have stated, that if the deceased had received ten times as much injury, as he had received, he would not have died of that in jury. Now, what injury did ho receive? Witness—l only speak from the circumstances, as they have been stated by Messrs. Basnett and Cox. By Mr. Karr—Do you mean to say that bruises received on the sides of a man might not produce his death at the expiration of three weeks? Witness—They could not; he could not survive so long. Mr. HARMER asked whether Mr. Cox who had seen the body internally, and Mr. Basnett avho had examined it externally, were not likely to forma more correct judgment than the witness, who had not seen the body at all ? Witness—l may, without arrogance, say, that from my more extended practice and longer experience, I am more likely to form a correct judgment than the Gentlemen alluded to. Mary Fletcher, the sweetheart of John Lees, saw him after he was cut. It was on the 21st August. I was with him about a quarter of an hour. I saw him again on the Monday night before he died. He was in bed. lie did not know me, nor speak to me. I saw him on the 14th of August, and he was in per fect flood health and spirits. On the 21st August he complained of his arni being very ill cut, and he said nothing else. The Rebecca, alum, from Omega to London, was run en shore at the back of Yarmouth Pier yesterday, with loss of rud der and damage, having struck on the Cockle Sand. FALMOUTH, OC lORER 3.—Wind W.S.W.—Arrived t h e Th irty , name, from Leith for Lisbon. Poet:mourn, Ocrosra s.—Wind N.W.—Arrived his Mr:- jetty's HIND, from Leith. Passed up Channel the Ajax, from Madras for London. Sailed the Perseverance, Paurga, for Honduras; Ernest, BLATSOi 4 , for Bahia; Amelia Wilson, Usi neawoon, for the South Seas; Elizabeth, &Tuns, and Sarah, VosiHyritrasux, for Sierra Leone; Britannia, Davns, for Darn burgh ; and the Albion, Reza, for London. MA/KATI, Ocvoazas—Arrived the sloup Luck's-all, SzAxanoss, from Hull for Newhaven, with the loss of her masts. Dias., SmiLmzia s.—Wind N. Sailed the whole of the outward-bpund, except the Pomona, South Seaman, which ship remains to repair her windlass.—Came down from the River and sailed the Heurico, for Boston ; Ann, WILKIE, for Saint Domingo; Bayard, for Virginia; Jane, /HILT/NKR, for the isle of May; his Majesty's ship STRATA/; and the Cape Packet, for the Cape of Good Hope : the latter remains. The Partridge, Captain KELLY, has arrived in the Downs, from Bombay, from whence she sailed on t)te 25th of May, and from the Cape of Good eon the 4th of August. She brings advice of the arrival, at the latter place, on the 29th of July, of the Abundance store-ship, Lieut. CAMPBELL, from Portsmouth, for whose safety apprehensions had been entertained, in consequence of the length of time she had been out, having sailed from Portsmouth on the the 6 19 ti t u h s : - -"- • 16th ._ ,._ e ,, maker, weeks notes traced town ble, of coast, which from city tin no . 11 . 1 G ; . , 1 {.1 7 11l I _ , a )th of April for St. Helena, the Cape, and the Mau- tius, and no accounts having been received of her -ail now, since her departure from Madeira, on the I i ti i . ith of May. . 1 . t, 1 , During the last week a suspicion was entertained, .; . lat an utterer of forged Bank of England notes was !! ° or about Ramsgate : this became confirmed, pret f ~ i ping elicited, that a villain, in the habit of a silo( Laker, who has taken in summer-work for some eeks past, was the character implicated. Several ,1 .* i , )tes tor £1 each, of wretched fabrication, were 1. aced to him, which ,becoming public, he left .the f . rwn suddenly. A Bank Inspector, with a consta. 1. le, have ineffectually endeavoured to overtake him I his hasty flight. ' I , CORN-EXCIIANOZ, OCT. 6.—We had a large arrival l' .. 1 I Wheat and Batley this morning from the Suffolk cast, but very, little demand for the former article, , .• i. i , hich met heavy sale at Monday's prices. Barley is .om Is. to 2s. per gnat ter cheaper, and a large gum). ty remains on hand, which conid not be got off at mat reduction. In Peas, Beans,' and Oats, there is ii' I i o alteration: . . • Il i A 11.01 .. .:q I . ! '` , ,b •,., • . I li‘ ' : , 1 • , 1 . . L . , , .. ~ , ; .... i ? , 1 Sil .. • , t 1 r . I , , I „ . t I. I t : , ;1 i; ... I ,:i . t. .. ~ , H. i ! s . • .1 R ',. - ' 'rl • ( .' . .t i .. l il •, i iii 0! e is , • ,; i; i l l • •I I '. 1 II I i - ;,::.