Star. — London, England, 1811-03-22 00:00:00

I llliw' ii- . . don of the irregular force of the peasantry of the that was proposed to be Liven to Portugal. This wa s country. What had been the practical effect of this I a remarkable circumstarr e, and he never recolle cte d a system ? He had met with nobody that c o u ld deny similar omission on any former occasion. It wa , , ti. i that it had defended and maintained that country more remarkable, as the whole question seemed to he against a most powerful French army. It was im- argued as if it was meant to propose nothing more eiru possible to deny that every branch of the service had \the sum that had been given last year. He sA. :1 11 not greatly contributed to this desirable object. 'Upon . have concluded from the speech of the Noble L,,,1, all ancient principles in our public conduct, upon all that nothing more was proposed than a renewal of the the sacred principles of public faith, upon all grounds vote of the former session, which was one miliion stir. of wise and just policy, we had viewed Portugal as ling, in order to keep up the same force in Portugal. the ally of this country.' In all our views of that na- Could it be conceived from the Noble Lord's speech, tion, we had so regarded it—none bad ever doubted that it was now proposed to double that burn ? Or the importance of the allianceall.had thought that was this grant to be considered so much of a matter great effects might result from it. One condition only of course, that the amount of it was not worth spe d. was stated, namely, that Portugal herself should make Eying ? The real question for the consideration of all the exertions in her power in her own defence.— the House was, Whether the situation and circum. This, at the present moment, she was doing in a way stances of this country were such as to make it pot and to an extent, unparalleled' in her history—(hear.) dent and politic to expend two millions forthe main. This was the practical result of our operations, which 1 tenance of the Portuguese forces ? Neither had any were most important also in other points of view. He , informaiion been given as to the mode of its applica- Would not enter into other topics , but he thought that ' tion. Last year an estimate, however imperfect, h a d nobody could deny that our defence of Portugal was been made on that subject, but now nothing wa s i r most important to the interests of the whole of the said of it ; and the • House remained ignorant, whe. Peninsula. Farther on that particular branch of the tbcr it was to.be expended in the formation and ma i n . subject he should then decline to enter, though he tenance of an additional force, or whether it was to was not indisposed to do so—but let any one ste how be applied to the Civil Goiernment of Portugal, On great an object would it become, should some fa- all these subjects the 'douse was left utterly i n th e vourable event take place in Spain, and the effect it dark. He had no hesitation in declaring it to be his must then have on the next campaign —( gear, luar.) conviction, that on the system now acted upon by =Would not their Lordships, under these circum- Ministers, their Lordships, by sanctioning this Re. stances, continue their aid, already so beneficially op- solution, would go on rapidly accumulating the plied ? or would they now, with a rash—(he would already overwhelming expenditure of the country, not wish to use too - Ing an expression)—but would and would accelerate that ruin which was fast up. _ , What he obiected to was, the whole system --------"'""""1"dig nature of bank-notes, ansbono one was obliged to , PARLIAMEIVTART PROCtEDINGS.' \ them- . . Lord LAUDERDALE could by no *tont i HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH rt. , mit the defence attempted to be set up 'by sate.; to The Silk Manufacturers Wares Bill, and Taunton's Divorce L or d. - The alarming measure, so justly roptistostet. Bill, were read a third time, and passed. ' , by his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville) was nclt, so The Sugar Drawbacks and Bounties Bill, and several ether Bills, were brought up front the Consume, and read a first time. much the result of the increase of the value of sailer, The Royal Marine Mutiny Bill was returned from the Cons- as of the manifest depreciation of Bank paper. And moss by Mr. R. Ward, and other Members, with the Amend- the. Noble Lord would find, if he turned his view to ments agreed to. ; other countries, or looked back into the history of On the niettion of Earl Getosverrot, the consideration of the ; our own, he would find that such an expedient as that Reversion Bill was postponed till Monday sennight. . complained of was a sure concealment of the decay of public credit. It had been so in the reign of King I William the Third, when the measure had been wisely and unanswerably condemned, hiS the impolicy of it exposed by Mr. Locke. ..7-- P Lord GRENVILLE,* adverting to the act of 1 ' the Governor and Directors of the Bank, did not by 1 any means intend to place them between Ministers . i and the censure of the I louse. A time would come when it would be incumbent on the Directors of the Bank to answer for themselves, how far they had justified the public confidence which had been placed 1 in them. Earl BATHURST stated that Government had not made them a legal tender. Lord ELLENBOROUGH observed, that it was out of the power of the Government to make them a legal tender, as those who had to administer the law would of course state to Juries what the law was with respect to a legal tender. Earl BATHURST contended,in reply to Lord El lenborough, that the Goverment could make the cur. DANEURY PEERAGE. In the Committee of Privileges on the Banbury Peerage, the Earl of RADNOR delivered his opinion, ' and Lord REDISDALE, at considerable length, agahlst the claims of the Petitioner. The latter Noble Lords did not finish his speech, the Lola) CHANCELLOR haw-1 ing proposed, on account of the lateness of the hour,. to postpone the further proceeding till Monday, at two o'clock, which was agreed to. LMERTY OF CONSCIENCE IN THE ARMY. Earl STANHOPE, referring to what he had said on the Mutiny Bill, presented a Bill for the better • . security of Liberty of Conscience, for the purpose of making an enactment .similar to that in the clause d by his Lordship to be added to the M uti ny greHaving stated the right of a Peer to have a •Zill presented by him read a first time, The Earl of LIVERPOOL doubted the right, al though he admitted the practice to have been to read a Bill presented by a Peer a first time, without motion. 4 GRENVILLE stated the constant usage on Loid _ . ..Age G. this point to have been, that a Bill so presented should be read a first time without motion. 1 The Earl of LIVERPOOL repeated, he was not rent coin of the realm a legal tender. The Earl of ROSSE referred to the state of Ire land, to prove that the issue of Bank Paper had not strong they, with an untimely hand, come down that night and declare, that they would intercept the progress, that they would stop the course and track of their " " those -' - which were proaching. syst. cepolicy pursued by Ministers. He must contend, drat the-situation of the continent was such, that unless we t had some hopes of great military efforts arising to our success, by withholding . supplies necessary to their continuance ? The question now before them was, not whether they were to excite assistance in Portugal to the common cause—whe ,ther they were to begin to arouse the slumbering energies of a base and depraved nation ? it was not so ; but it w is, whether or no we should avail our selves of those efforts and energies which were ac tually in existence—whether we should damp the spirit of resistance, and destroy the flame of indepen dence ; or teed its growing strength, and allow it its full an natural course ? We were not called upon now by acts of incitement to raise that nation, but to continue those efforts which had been so success ful already. Would we deprive ourselves and that i country of the great advantages already gained ? He wished to keep clear of questions on which there might and must be many opportunities of discussion ; but omitting them, he should say, that every maxim of faith, of wisdom, of experience from all history, every just view'of the Means of prosecuting the great contest in which we were necessarily engaged, must induce their Lordships to concur in the motion he was about to have the honour of submitting to them.-.- One other topic he should presume to touch upon. His Royal H: the Prince Regent had, as their intending at this time to interfere with the exercise of this usage and claim upon courtesy ; but he should ever maintain, there was no certain right in any Peer to claim it as a privilege. With respect to what oc curred in a former period, he recollected there was some observation made upon the privilege—but their Lordships came to no determination whatever on the subject. Lord HOLLAND recollected the part he took in the discUssion alluded to—(on the.ftrst reading of Earl Grosvenor's Reversion Bill) —and he certainly then stated it to be the usage and right of every Peer. The Bill was then read the first time. Earl STANHOPE next moved, " That the Bill; be printed."—Agreed to. Earl STANHOPE said, he should now move that the Bill be read a second time on—(when being in terrupted by the Noble Secretary opposite)—the Noble Earl continued—" Well, the Noble Lords opposite are welcome to their right of form, provided hereafter they will grant to me my right of substance.—(4 Laugh.)—l will now give notice, that I intend to • move the second reading on any day most suitable to the House.—Will that suit the Noble Lords ? I shall also notice, my Lords, he is the best qualified to at - - in his Awet to • . the effect supposed upon the state of the exchange, the.exchange having become more favourable to Ire land, notwithstanding the increased issue of the paper I of the Bank of Ireland. The Earl of LAUDERDALE controverted this argument, contending that the issue of the paper of the Bank of Ireland did not now operate as it previ efosly did, but only as a proportionate part of the com bined issue of that Bank and the Bank of England. ' Earl STANHOPE thanked Lord Grenville for his motion, and said that there was another serious -.Constitutional view of the subject. What could vent Ministers, if so disposed, in such a transact ai this, from the most foul and infernal corruption in the ' way of corrupt influence, by informing their friends of the measures they were about to adopt or sanction? The papers were ordered. Lord GRENVILLE then moved for an address to the Prince Regent, for copies of all the correspon dence that had taken place between the Government and the Governor and Company of the Bank of Eng land, relative to this business ; which, after a few words from Earl BATHURST, was likewise agreed to. AID TO PORTUGAL. The Marquis WELLS/11-EY moved the Order of the _ - Message, ~ance, it was quite impossible for this countr - y alone to arrest the progress of that Power who at present pos sessed the military controul of the greater part of Eu rope. He wished het - e, however, to guard himself against any misrepresentation of what he had said. It had been at all times the policy and never could be but most desirable for this country to contribute its utmost efforts to preserve or restore the independence of the continent. He trusted, that a time might come, when this country might interfere with effect in setting bounds to that tyranny by which Europe was oppressed.— But, then, it must be recollected, that its power and resources were essentially, and principally maritime, and that it could never interfere with effect without the co-operation of some great military Power on the continent. The system at present pursned required exertions greater than could be continued till that per;- ad arrived when England might co-operate with effect. Nothing, certainly, could be more desirable, either on principles of policy, or from the natural dictate: of every mind that had the least lOve of freedom, thasi thit Spain should be delivered from the yoke of France. Would to Goo there was any hope in prospect of a deliverance so glorious, and no man would be more willing than he was to make every sacrifice for the at. 'lment of • • obi' The same might be Highness _ Lordships well knew, declared his earnest desire to deliver back into the hands of his Royal Father, as speedily as possible, the whole state of the public af fairs unimpaired. . Would any of their Lordships wish now to deprive his Royal Highness of the means of restoring, in an unimpaired state, that branch of the public service which was of such high importance to the real honour, to the true interests, and to the solid glory of the country ? He should not trespass farther upon their attention ; but should conclude by moving an Address to the Prince Regent in answer to his gracious message. (Similar to that moved and passed in the Commons ) Lord GRENVILLE said, that one of the topics which his Noble Friend had adopted in the course of his speech, was of a nature so singular, that he was at a loss in what manner to treat it. That topic was, the propriety, of following the same system with re gard to Portugal which was acted on previous to his Majesty's illness, that no alteration might be experi enced on his expected rec.every. He certainly did feel that their Lordships stood in a peculiar and unexampled situation ; one, which though it did not admit of any relaxation of duty on their part, yet in. fused doubts as to the manner of discharging Tt was too notorious, that in consequence of the; calamity which had fallen upon his Majesty, and, the measures adopted in consequence, the constitd. tional relations between the Crown and Parliament} and between Ministers and Parliat.... ', were in some , degree suspended. But he- had no idea that, on this account, the functions of Parliament were to be suspended also ; or that it was not their Lordships'i duty to consider, what was the actual situation of the country, and what its future prospects ; he had no idea, in fine, that it was their sole duty to look back to what was the state of the country on the 25th .d 1 October last, and only to keep it in that situation, till the period of his Majesty's recovery and resumption . of authority. He did feel, however, even after all the glories and triumphs which we were supposed to have gained since the 2.5 th of October, that our situation was still disastrous ; that the wheels of that tremen dous revolution which had overwhelmed the Conti. nent were still rolling on with uninterrupted career : and he should be happy, if Ministers could again deliver up the country into the hands of his Majesty, in the same state in which it was at the before-men tioned period. Ministers had neither stopped the wheels of revolution, nor arrested the progress of na tack the rights of Peers who does _ in pm destroy the rights of a common soldier." MARSITALSEA PRISON. Lord HOLLAND moved the printing of the ver dict and evidence on the Coroner's Inquest in the case of Cullum, who died in the Marshalsea prison. His Lordship observed, that he was bound in candour and justice to state, that upon looking at the evidence he did not think it altogether justified the verdict; — there was, however, a great deal of contradiction and inconsistency in the evidence, and it might be advis able to institute some other mode of inquiry. He had himself examined the prison, and he could state fiom his own observation that it was utterly deficient in point of accommodation, the building being old and ruinous, and there being no separation between debt ors and persons sent there by Naval courts-martial, however heinous their offences. He would have thought it his duty to have brought this part of the subject under consideration, had he not been inform ed that a new prison was building, and the progress of which he t, usted would be accelerated. The Earl of AYLESFORD was anxious that the subject should . be investigated, and suggested the propriety of appointing acornmittee for that purpose,, convinced that it would be found, as the Noble Lord had Candidly stated, that the evidence did not bear out the verdict. The new prison that was building would, he hoped, be fit for the reception of prisoners by the end of the summer. The papers were ordered to be printed, and refir ed to a Committee, consisting of all the Lords who have been present this Session. Lord ELLENBOROUGH observed, that care should be taken not to question the Jurors as to the motives of their verdict—which would be contrary to the established rules and principles of law. DOLLARS. Lord GRENVILLE, before proceeding to the Order of the Day, wished to move for a paper respec ting the recent resolution of the Bank of England to raise the denomination of the current coin, a resolu tion which he considered as most extraordinary. He thought that he lived undo' a monarchy, and that the Government alone could alter the denomination of the current coin of the realm ; but it now appeared that the Bank of England could exercise this act of sovereignty, and not only that, but that they could call' to advise them in its exercise a Committee of hiiida jesty's Privy Council, by whose advice it appeared Day on the Prince Regent's Mt... The Message of his Royal Highness was then read by the clerk. The Marquis WELLESLEY then rose, and said, that in the observations which he ,should feel it his duty to offer to their Lordships on the subject of his Royal Highness the Prince Regent's Message to Par liament, he should not enter into any general grounds, but should rest upon public facts, upon the wisdom 1 and upon the true policy of the measure he should propose. He thought that it would be disrespectful - to the House, to harbour a doubt of their disposition to grant that aid to Portugal which the Prince Re ' gent's Message expressed his hopes that he sbouid re ceive for that object. He could not imagine that in this emergency—in this great crisis of the fortunes of our ancient and faithful ally—in the plenitude of ex ertions she was making—their Lordships would inter pose any check to the giving the full benefit of the effect of those great exertions in the cause of the in dependence of Portugal, against the usurpation and oppression of the common enemy, which they had al ready encouraged and supported. The object of the message of the Prince Regent rested not upon any spe , culation concerning what might arise, but upon the so lid ground of experience; on this plain reason, that the ,aid we had already afforded, so far from having pro duced any ( which had predicted, fects, diate and , that sion tion been had small great this t those' Accra, into Portugal to animate the courage and to disci-, pline the habits of that people. By our means, corps had been raised and embodied with a degree of skill' and discipline scareely exceeded, and in a time so much shorter than could have been expected. Their Lordships - were called upon to see the result of the measures already taken, not only as it applied to the army sent to Portugal, but as it applied to the whole system of measures for the defence of that country : Pr soldiers who taini..ent so great an _ Jett. migh. said as to the importance of the independer.ce of Por tugal. It was not neces s ary to remind the 'louse i t f the existence of our ancient alliance with that coup. try : England bad 'a manifest interest in supporting its independence ; and the - common feelings of all mankind dictated hatted to its oppressor. " Be' then" said his Lordship, " in managing the affairs of a great nation, you must not only consult what is your is. terest, and what are your wishes, but also s consider this most material point, whether your effort'i are likeiy to be successful, and whether in misapplyi• lig t h os e ef forts by premature or ill-timed exertior „ y o u may not only fail of accomplishing your oblect, but eves weaken your means of defence, and. of 'mterference at some morefortunate Opportunity." lie would therefoie once more call upon the I-louse t e cunsider well t! ; e 'prospects of the country, to hush; 4nd its resources r the more noble object of effecting thatwhichin his Mal 'their present efforts were unabl , sto accomplish. lie would intre?t them to reflect on the great and irrepara ble losses which had been suet ained in the attempts to support the cause of Spain. Let them look, also, at the state of Portugal. They rere told, indeed, that up to this moment the enemy ha al not been able toachieve the conquestof that c ountry. But what was the fact Why, the British army occupied a ground that vas ompletely circurnsaibed by the enemy ; and t. 1, ..s Noble Lord had not expressed a hope, that with evea this additional enornamrs sacrifice, Portugal wouldbe defended, or that even the small slip of territory that as occupied by the ; trmy would be successfully main tained. If it was in our power to defend Portpi, most gladly would he do it ; but the system that wo now pursued, while it in no degree promoted the in. terests of that country, created an mos mous drain on the resources of this, which might eventually unfit it for future exertions and a future struggle. On t..t efforts made by Portugal herself, he shoul sa y notliMg. He was the last man whomeould wish to detract front -the merits of men who were armed in tlitlir country's cause--Goo forbid ! that any such sentiment sho.i,l drop from his lips. It was the doctrine he h:l Icing held, that the combination of an irlepl force with regular tmops, •vtos the mode best adv. teal for the defence of a country. • Sur the question he wished to discuss was, of a much higher ill. ture ; it was, whether there existed any rational pr . spect of producing any advantage to the public in this country adequate to the burdens *bids the system . - - Ited? This ;-- - - the to which he had alluded had been adop- ; not merely to those Portuguese sow ted. Could any argument be wanting, after this,to ' formed regular troops in our pay—the partners in our convince any one of the depreciation of bank paper ? glories—the partners in the prudence and discipline, —Probably a wretched quibble would be resorted to, and skill and courage, of the British army under that in stating that dollars were not the current coin of , great Commander who had the general direction of the realm, but bank tokens, although they had be- , the whole ; but also to all those other numerous, ad -letely a current coin in circulation. His 'vantages which, Mowed to the military service from ..._ _ . _ . adopted ..ceis Of _ tional calamity ; ieseli he could not but consider as hastening on with 'accelerated strides ; and he must say, that a more disastrous proposition could not be made to that House, than that the Prince Regent should not look to the principle of administering the affairs of the country, so as to promote the best advan oath ; but should crex,_ • was a question which deserted atten• tto even at periods of the greatest' prosperity : " but now," said his Lordship, " you are mach more bound to pause upon it, when you reflect what are the cir. cumstances and situation of your own country. I have no wish to add to those alarms which are so ge nerally. diffused, or to aggravate those fears which • come comps ya. Lordship concluded by moving for a copy of the re- the general system which had been ~ _ and con- tages of his subjects,according to his „.1 7, oi.. . . ... solution_of the Governor and Directors of the Bank tinned. In this latter view of the militiaei Lotd- act upon those cold and narrow' views, as if it was ' begin to be enteained, 'kith regard to the • financial of England, for raising the denomination of Silver ships had to look, not mtrelY at the that had his only duty that our affairs should be so adeni. difficulties of the ft country,; bet that man's mind mac Bank Tokens. . been raised—that powerful arm of military service— nistered as to leave them in the same state, and Ibe strangely constructed indeed, who could shut h;s Earl BATHURST bed s no objection to the that mu g also at the numbers of armed peasantry, which conducted upon the same system, in which he found eyes on the financial difficulties and ernbarrassmests . ' eon, but wished it to podstinctly understood, that might be called the armed mass of the people.— them. Confident he was, that his Royal Highness which every day press upon us." He looked upon the GovernmPnt were perfectly ready to take Won (ficarr.) — The result had proved and manifested that never viewed the t rus t that wag commigted to him in 1 [periodi as ettremely ill-timed in the prefent ,•-tiac‘rri - -Ives the revonsibility of the measure. He Je- which he had never heard doubted but in that House, this light ; and their Lordships were also bound to of the Session. He did not know of an! nferthat it was any proof of the depreciation of bank that we bad created a most efficient and formidable consider in what manner by their counsels they could ' instance made subsidy being proposed before Parlia paper. It v:as the consequence 4 a rise in the price regular force, aided by a great irregular force. There best promote the interests of their fellow-subjects, un- • ment had provision for home services. It wai of silver : whether that rise was owing to an inereas- was, then, a great regular force to act against the fettered by any syst e m, and conscious that thus they the constant practice to provide for the army and ed demand, combined with an inadequate supply, or enemy's army, with the immense advantages to be de. would best promote the glory and happiness of the navy, and settle the finances of the country, before wth any other circumstances, was not now the clues rived from s numerous an irregular one, mutua ll y to King. At present he wo u ld not enter upon any large I any idea was entertained of making . such grant tinsunder discussion. His Noble Friend had spoken asiist each other, and to co-operate or concentrate as discussion of our foreign_ policy ; and the opinions las the present for the service of foreign troell• — . ail a quiisble ; but the fact was, that these were not the exigencies of the case mirk require. lobeme which belga: about to deliver should rest only on his \ This was the former practice was cot. 0 • the currant coin of the realm, but bank tokens, which tioned this the more p ar ticul a r y, that it mig con- views of th e i c t o si i trat i on of t his c ountry. Their great advantage to the public service, because ii and facilities to the forma the Bank had a right to fix at whatever denomination sidered bow much the formation of a great regular Lordships wonld observe, that nd explanation what- enabled the Legislature to hold a just balance betwees ther pleased ; they were issued by the Bank is the force had &en the means ever had bat given of the amount of the assistance the sacrifices to be made and the exertionsresiuir .. . . . - • . , .• Nd any of those bad consequences which some had listed, had. 4ctually ptoduced great beneficial ef- s, not ineriy,su i fits , to it _concerned the imme- e appipaietim f et,tiaistid,, but as it had aroused stimsuped Portugal to far greater exertions than cound elm ;wig Wort, upon any occa- s t exiaidns 'that mt i ege, nparalleled by any na- of tame ezttne: e results of our aid had . t a seenWnsittin et all the circumstances, shewn tilhines it? ' vanishing rapidity : from ill beginniriali ' . ' (ln the first instance, these at results had ' ' • .duced under the auspices of country, and especially by the care and skill of se valiant and excellent officers, whom we had se nt : •v V it 11 W . • of ci in ei I', 21 ft it si I. C C 1 I - i 1 . 4 I i - I ' 1 I . •