Star. — London, England, 1809-02-14 00:00:00

I. said I should enquire.—Q. Are you certain of that ? A. I ant.—Did you ever say you should elonire of a t/hird person for the appointment?--- A. Yes ; I said I should enquire.—Q. Did you name 'i'indal ? A. Nu.—Q. By whom were you introduc e! to Tindal ? A. I met him at Mr. Robins's, in Bat tlett-buildings.—Q. Did you ever see Barber ? A. as. —Q. About Lodowick's business ? A. Yes. — &j. Did you ever see or write to Lloyd ? A. -No.— Q. Can you say that these transactions yon have mentioned were the only ones of the kind in which you were concerned ? A. I cannot recollect. —Q. Recollect ? A. I believe there were others.— Q. What others ? A. There was a clerkship in the War Mice.—Q. When was that affair negociatel ? A. In August last.—Q. Was it at Mrs. Clarke's re quest that you enquired about this appointment ? A. I think sn..-11Q. Did you succeed ? A. No; it could not be effected.—Q. What were you to have received in case the place had been obtained ? A. Nothing.— Q. In whose behalf was the application made ? A. do not know.—Q. What sum was to have begat given for it? A. I believe about 3 or k.400.—Q. To whom did you apply ? A. To Tindal.—Q. Did you negociate for any other office ? A. Ido not re collect.—Q. Did you negociate for a place for Mr. Russel Manners in 1806 ? A. No. Q. What transaction's had you with Mrs. Clarke i , i 18(6 ? A. None.—Q. Did you see Mrs. Clarke from 1806 to 1808 ? A. No, I did not.—Q. Wiu;re did Mrs. Clarke live when you saw her ? A. In Holies-street.—Q. In what month was that ? A. It was before she went to Bedford-plact.—Q. Did you go voluntarily to see her, or did she invite you ? A. She wrote to me.—Q. For what purpose ? A. Ido not recollect.—Q. Was it for the purpose of your getting a place ? A. No, it was not.—Q. Are you positive of that ? A. Yes.—Q. When did the first transaction take place after the Court-Martial ? A. I think in August : it was Thompson's.—Q. Did you ever succeed? A. No, never.—Q. It was only your own good nature which induced you to interfere ? A. Merely to oblige Mrs. Clarke, and get the accounts liquidated.—Q. How could you get the accounts li quidated, when Mrs. Clarke had no influence with the Duke of York ? A. She told me she had influence. —Q. Are you positive of that ? A. I certainly un derstood her so.—Q. How often have you seen Tin dal ? A. I cannot tell.—Q. Did you ever ask him how he was to obtain the appointments ? A. Yes, I asked him once about Lodowick's.—Q. What an swer did he make ? A. He . said it was through the Willesley interest. (A laugh.) Q. By Mr. WALLACE.) What led you to apply to Tindal ? A. He was my acquaintance, and an agent.— Q. How had Tindal power to procure places ? A. I do not believe he had any personally.— Q. Yet you applied to him when success was not probable ? A. I did it from his own statement.—Q. Did he negociate for you before your acquaintance wi:h Mrs. Clarke ? A. No, I did not know him. Q. (By Sir JAMES HALL.) Did Mrs. Clarke ever give you reason to suppose that the object of Mr. R. Manuers would be effected ? A. Yes, she said she had a letter from the Duke on the subject, stating, that he would give him an appointment worthy ,of his name and family.—Q. Did you see the letter, or was it oily statedto y A. It was stated to me.—Q. Did Mr. Manners say from whom he got the letter ? A. I think he said it was from the Duke of York to 'Mrs. Clarke.—Q. Had you any conversation with Mrs. Clarke on the subject of the letter ? A. I do not recorect.—Q. Did any thing ever pass in Mr. Man ners's presence with Mrs. Clarke before you, relative to the appointment? A. No.—Q. Did you act gra tuitously, or for money ? A. I hoped my accounts would be liquidated. Q. (By a Member.) Had you any credit with Birch and Co. ? A. No.—Q. Nor Mrs. Clarke ? A. No. Ido not know.—Q. How in cases of this kind is the money secured ? A. It is deposited in the bank ing-house of one of the parties. Q. (By Mr. DAVIS.) Did you ever get any money at Birch and Co.'s? A. No.—Q. You went to Col chester with Mrs. Clarke ? A. Yes, I did.—Q. Did yOu not swear at the Court-Martial there that you had not seen Mrs. Clarke for some weeks or months be fore the trial? A. NM said I had not M e.I her for some time until the trial.—Q. Are' you positive ? A. Yes, indei.d ; I had no idea I was saying any 'thing dif ferent now from what I then said. I had mace a mistake on the trial, which I corrected. Q. (Try Sir G. WAIMENDER.) On any transaction of this kind, did you mention the Duke of Portland's name ? A. No. not tell to what they referred, tut at t er era's he l was sure it could not be to any point ,t)io *view inquiry. . - Mr. CROAKER was ab-nit to make some further observations, when he was interrupted by a CORtilla#4 cry of .. Go on, go.on!" Sir T. TURTON wished Mrs. Clarke should lie asked whether llieie were the letters to which the Ho nourable Colonel alluded a few nights ago. Mrs. Ci.mucketvas now called in. She produced the letters u! the Duke of York, and one of )..)octor O'Meara's. She said, 44 I wish to prove to the House that 1 v. as not telling a story the other night, when I referred to General Claverin,g : he said he had not consulted me on military promotion. Now the truth is, I understood he was a distressed man with a large family, and I first got him a district, then a Brigadier Generalship, and he last of all ap plied to me for a regiment ; here is a letter from;the Duke, in which he'is mentioned. This letter (pro ducing another,) is from the Archbishop of 1 uam is recommendation of Dr. O'Meara, and directed to the Doctor himself. On this subject I received an apology from the Duke of York, stating at the same time that he would recollect the Doctor. Here is another letter from Captain Shawe, clued the Downs, *ere he went to the Cape of CK o 1 Hope, c )inplaining of being put on half pay." Mrs. Clarke Wing given all the letters to the Clerk, withdrew. Mr. WARDLE here said it would be 'necessary, for the purpose of making those letters evidence, that the hand writing should be identified. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER conceived, if Mrs. Clarke could vouch for the iden tity of the hand-writing, in the letter she produced, from her own knowledge, it would be quite sufficient ; if any doubt arose, it was easy to. callin Mr. Maltby, who would of course be enabled to recognise his own hand-writing ; and, with respect to the writing of the Duke of York, Mrs. Clarke could not well be Mis taken. Mrs. Clarke was then called in aga in to prove the hand writing of his Royal Highness the Duke of York, Mr. Maltby, and Mr. Barber. Q. (By Mr. WARDLE). Have you seen the Duke of York write ? A. I have. These two letters are in his Royal Highness's own hand writing. When his Royal Highness addressed any letters to me, the superscription on the outside was always in a feigned hand, but the whole of what is inside in these two letters is the usual hand writing of the Duke of York. Q. How did you come by the possession of the Archbishop of Tuam's letter ? A. It was left by accident after I returned Dr: O'Meara's documents. T did not destroy it, because I thought it might at some future time be useful to him.—Q. Through what medium- did you get Colonel Shaw's letter ? A. I think it was from Coitus's. Colonel Shaw de red that when I wrote to him, I should address him under cover to Coutts, and that the clerks would take care of the letter. 1 am - not certain, but I believe I received the letter by a private hand.—Q. Do you know Colonel Shaw's hand writing.? A. I do.—Q. Is that letter in Colonel Shaw's hand writing ? A. It is. —Q. Did you ever see Dr. O'Meara ? A. Very often indeed.—Q. Who is he ? A. An Irish gentle man and a clergyman.—Q. Where was the Arch bishop of Tuam's letter found ? A. Amongst my own papers. Dr. O'Meara sent me several letters for it ; but it was not until about six months since that I found it.—Q. Did Dr. O'Meara send you that letter ? A. He did.—Q. At what time ? A. Ido not recollect.—Q. How long since ? A. Whilst I lived in Gloucester-place.—Q. In what year ? A. In the year 1806. Q. Did Dr. O'Meara, in sending that letter to you, direct any use to be made of it? A. He direct ed that I should shew it to the Duke of York, with other papers.--Q. Was it about the time that the Duke of York went to Lord Chesterfield's ? A. It was previous to that Dr O'Meara gave me his docu , ments. lam not sure that this fetter was amongst them ' • but I am positively certain that I had it from his own hands. The witness was then ordered to withdraw, when the several letters from Mr. Maltby and Mr. Barber were read. They contained nothing more than the ordinary forms of'application for the officers referred to in the evidence of Mr. Maltby. In one of his let ters, however, Mr. Maltby, after thanking Mrs. Clarke for her kind attentions, declared that she would be a treasure to any Secretary of State. (This Massage excited immoderate laughter in every tart and upon every side of the House.) Various receipts and other documents respecting the sums lodged at Messrs. Coutts' and Birch's bank. Q. (By Mr. HusstussoN.) Why did not Lodo- ing-houses, liy Mr Lodowick, were also read. wick's appointment take place ? A. Because a new Sir GEORGE HILL took that opportunity to arrangement had been made. acquaint the Committee of all that had passed be- Q. (Ity Lord For.asTosi.:;) Had you any transac- tween him and Mr. Maltby, as some allusions had tions respecting a Wiitership or Cadetship to India ? .been made to it in the course of the examination that. A. No; except once. I was asked for one.—Q. By evening. By the will of the late Mr. Beresford, Mr. whom ? A. Mr. Do: mean.—Q. Do you know him? J. C. Beresford and himself became tenants to the' A. Yes.— Q. Was it procured ? A. No ; the nego- Fishmongers' Company, in consequence of which he tiation was stispt.ndecl.Q. What sum was to be became acquainted with the Secretary, Mr. Maltby. given for it ? A. Ido not knuw.—Q. Are you a On the morning after that Gentleman's name had Lawyer ? A. Yei . ;. —Q. Were you aware this was an been mentioned by one of the witnesses at the Bar, illegal transaction ? A. No.—Q. How ofien have he met him, and asked whether he had seen the pa you (employed Donovan? A. Only once.—Q. On pers that morning, and finding he had not, he mene what other occasion did you see him ? A. I called coned what had passed to Kn. The next day Mr. En hint once, as he knew Lord Moira, whose sister Maltby visited him at the Hotel where he resided, to had returned from abroad, and from whom I had ask his advice as to the course he should pursue, and hoped for sonic information relative to a female rela- whether lie should call on Mr. Wardle. He had re tion of my own who had been in the same place.— commended to him, not to have any intercourse with t. 2. What place ? A. Vienna.—Q. Did you ever see Mr. Wardle, stating at the same time, that he might ur write to Mrs. Clarke, since 12506 ? A. Yes. I be summoned to attend the House, in -order to his wrote to her on the subject of a bill of exchange men- being examined. He also asked-him whether he had tioned at the Court Martial. communicated with any of the members of the Fish- Q. (By Sir J. HALL.) Did you receive no money monger's Company, who are members of that House. as a Solicitor fin.' thirse transactions E A. Ido much That was all that passed, and, in stating it, he had business gratuitously. no wish but to set himself right with the Committee. The witness was withdrawn. The notes of Cal. M'Mahon were then read. • On the suggestion of Lord FOLKSTONE, Mrs. The first contained an expression of his compli- Clarke was called in relative to some letters of Mr. ments to Mrs. Clarke, and an apology for his not Maltby ; she produced, two letters, and proved the having answered her letter sooner, not having re hand-writing ; she also produced sonic letters of Bar- , ceived it until the day before. The delay arosefrom bees, and some of Colonel M'Mahon's. On her his having been in the country, to which, though his withdrawing, a Member wished the letters of Colo- head-quarters had been removed to town, be was reel MNahon should not be read, as they could not g l a d to ava il him s elf of any opport u nity o f ? making possibly point at any fact relative to the present en- an excursion for three or four days. This note con • chides with an assurance of his readiness to comply Colonel MNAHON requested that no delicacy with Mrs. Clarice's desire. w ith respect to him should prevent the House from The second note, dated Friday, declares, that i l islogthe letters read, as Mrs. Clarke bad menaced Colonel M , Mahou would be most happy; to promote escos' a .-bloa in hiltrue 'ethers, by the revealme n t of M r s. C.'s wishes. It states that he mild not see ago j ettess . He lept:no copies of them, and could. biro pereaing thrlitessefressii.that day to he pn, des itUad that he was to go to Windsor that day. Ile would, however, egdeavour to haie an s ;,igtervie* wit'h Urn upon thebusiness,.and romigunicate to her the *est& The third note assures Mrs. Clarke that nothing bnt indisposition, and the not being able to commu i a•e good neWs to her, would have prevented Colo nel MiMthou from writing to her before. Whilst he lamented, however, his total inability to serve her, he had the satisfaction to add, that.in the _interviews which he had had with Mrs. Clarke, conduct and conversation were such-as to command his respect. *The Duke of Yong's Letters were next read, and were as follows : the rules of the Courts of Justice, vrhich -.vere lated by the wisest maxims and principles, merely a party practice. Where these rules attended to, justice would be done ; but wh et 2 should be departed from, nothing but party ence, and prejudice, and misconduct, would 13+ cane( u mce. The question was relinquished after a few fr in: Sir TIIOMAS Tuitrow ; and the witness wa s ato called in and examined by Mr. WARDLE. Q. If I uncle:van& you, you held not the sa n n: tuation you do at present always in the hous , ! Messrs. Birkett A. Not at the time of the pur:ii of the plate.—Q. What situation did you hold :la - at that time? A. That of Journeyman.--Q. r -- n own knowledge, do you know that the plate Ar purchased of 'Birkett ? A. Perfectly.—Q, know the price that was paid for the plate ? A. T books which I have been ordered to bring will that.—Q. Do you know of your own knowledge pfice that was .paid.for them ? A. By referer..:e the books, I can know it,.—Q. Do you kr,r.v price without referring to the books ? A. Cert.,:; not.—Q, Do you not of your own knowledge k the sum that WAS to have been paid, or that was ”. for the plate ? A. The books are here, and thee .% chew I repeat the question— A. tell exactly the .amount : I don's recollect th e , sx. sum.--Q. Do you of your own knowicdee kto.a• whorir the plate belontel before it was pure'.:, 'am' sent to Gloucester Place ? A. Yes : to the;), de Do you know of any part or th e pl I having been sent up to Gloucester Place s 'Or t:„ spettion. of the Duke of York and Mrs. Clarke Not to my recollection.—Q. Do you recollect Duke of York and Mrs. Clarke being at Mr. Birke and examining the plate in his shop? • A. No.— ; Do you recollect any thing with regard to the p ment of the price for the plate ? A. I do ; five L . dyed pounds were paid when the plate was 'and the remainder by bills, at different dates.—D State by whom the fivelundred pounds were pa': A. It was paid to Mr. Birkett, but I do not km by whom.—Q. Do you know whether it was paic caJi or bank-notes, or how else ? A. It was paid two bank -notes, one for £3OO, the other for £( Q. Do you recollect by whom and upon whom bills for the remainder were drawn ? A. To the of my 'recollection, by Mrs. Clarke upon the Duk, York.—Q. Do you, of your own knowledge, kr that these bills were afterwards paid by the Dub York ? A. I certainly do.—Q. Did you you; offer these bills to the Duke of York for payee( 4. I did.--Q. Did you see the Duke of York w you went to offer the bills for payment ? A. I did.—Q. Du you recollect what conversa, passed between you and the Duke of York w you offered the bills for payment ? A. I do nc Q. Do you recollect the Duke of York ever spt ing respecting the service of plate ? .a. No, I do —Q. How did the Duke of York settle these A. By his own drafts upon Coutts.—Q. Do you r. to state, that the whole amount due for the servi.: plate, over and above the £5OO, wfs paid by Duke of York by these bills .? A. Certainly. Mr. Parker was then called in on the motio: Mr. WARDLE, with Mr. Birkett's bo9ks. Q. By Mr. WARDLE to the former witness—ls any person how residing in the house of Mr. Bii who held the situation you hold at present b at the when the service of plate was purchased ? A. N Q. Do you know who the person is who held thi tuation then ? and where he is ? A. The person held the situation is dead. —Q. What was his ra A. Robert Walker. The books and account were then shewn to witness; and he was asked !.iy Mr. WARDLE whf the account entered in the book of the service di sent to Mrs. Clarke's was the same as that he ha. f alluded to—whether the account and the were the s :me ? The first had the Worthing post-mark upon it, aid was dated August 4, 1805. " How can ,I sufficiently express, to my sweetest darling love, the delight, which your dear—,dear, pretty letter gave me—or how do justice to the emo tions it excited ! Millions—millions of thanks for it, my angel, and be assured, that my heart is wholly fixed on ?your affection. lam quite hurt, my love, that you did not go to the Lewes Races. It was kind of you to think of me on the occasion. But you know me too well to suppose, that I could think of adding to the sacrifices which I am but too sensible you have made to me. News, my angel, you cannot expect from me from hence, for the life I lead here is in the family, and .I am hurrying them to leave this, that I may the sooner return to clasp .my angel In my arms. Except Lord Chesterfield's family, there is not a person here but ourselves that I know. Last night the play went off better than the night before. Dr. O'Meara gave me .your letter. He wishes to preach before royalty, and I shall endeavour to procure him the occasion. What a long time it is, my darling, since we pasted! I shall long for Wed nesday se nnight, that I may return to my love's arms. Adieu.—Your's, and your's alone." The second letter was dated Sandgate, August, and was to the following effect : " How can I sufficiently express my thanks to my love for her dear, dear letter, and the assurances it contained of love. Oh, my angel, how you are. be loved ! Every day convinces me more and more how much my happiness depends upon her affection. How I long for the day after to-morrow, to return to my love, to clasp her in my fond arms. General Claier ittg, my love, is mistaken. There are no new regi ments to be raised; they are only second battalions that are to be formed ; so that his business cannot be done, and tell him so. Ten thou s and thanks, my dearest love, for the handkerchiefs. The knowledge of the hands by which they were made will make them much more gratifying in the wearing. Every thing has turned to my satisfaction upon my tour. I yesterday inspected the works along the coast to Folkestone. Yesterday too I reviewed the 14th regi ment of dragoons, which is a fine body of men, and in a high state of discipline. I also reviewed four regiments of militia, which took up thirteen hours. To-day Igo to Braybourne Lees, and to-morrow to Hastings. Adieu, my love, till the day after to. morrow." These letters having been read, the House was is an uproar of laughter for several minutes. Mr. DOCHERTY ) superintendant of the business in the house of Messrs. Birkett, was called in and exa mined by Mr. WARDLE. Q. Do you know any thing of the transaction re specting the purchase of a service of plate which was sent to Mrs. Clarke at Gloucester-place ? A. Yes —Q. Relate what you know of that purchase ; what of the manner in which it commenced, and what till the bargain was concluded ? A. All that I know of it is, that on the application of Mr. Corri, the service of plate was sent to Gloucester-place ; but as I was not a partner in the house I know nothing more of the business.—Q In what character were you in the house when that service of plate was purchased ? A. That of a servant.—Q. Its what employment ? A. A jour neyman.—Q. What particular business do you now perform in the service of Messrs. Birkett ? A. I su perintend the whole business.—Q. Do you recollect any of the particulars respecting the bargain for that service of plate of your own knowledge ? A. Nothing further than lit - hat was mentioned by Mr. Birkett.—. Q. Do you mean to state that neither the Duke of York nor Mrs. Clarke ever, in your presence, exa mined or treated about the service of plate ? A. Cer tainly not.—Q. What did you hear the Duke of York or Mrs. Clarke say, when making the bargain for that plate ? A. The bargain concerning that plate was not made in my presence.—Q. Then you mean to say that the bargain was nut made in your pre sence ? A. Certainly.—Q, What did Mr. Birkett say to you respecting this transaction ? • An objection was taken to this question, and the witness ordered to withdraw. The ATTORNEY GENERAL observed upon the dangerous tendency of letting in such hearsay evidence of what had been said by a man now dead. Lord TEMPLE considered, that as Mr. Birkett was now dead, the declaration of the witness was the best evidence the House could have of the statement of Mr. Birkett. Mr. FULLER exclaimed that there never had been started so extraordinary an idea as that. Mr. LEYCESTER coincided with his Learned, Friend, that it was impossible to admit such evidence.. Mr. WARDLE, in consequence of what had been- stated by the Learned Gentlemen opposite in the face of the House and of the public, on the sub ject of evidence, cbuld not think it proper for him to press the question against their authority ; and should therefore endeavour to nome at the fact through the medium of such other-channels as were within his reach. Mr. WHITBREAD contended, that testimony quite as loose as that objected to had been already placed on the minutes. The Hotise of Commons was not bound by the rules of evidence observed in inferior courts. The inquisitorial power of Parlia ment authorised a departure .from the strict rules of evidence, in order to come 'at the knowledge of ' transactions Which could not otherwise be sifted.* If this inquisitorial power was to be ;riven up, it was high time for the House to iesign all its other powers. IVIr. LEYCESTEI( had not said that the House was bound by the rules pf evidence observed in the Courts below. It was not easy to draw the line be tween the evidence that &add and the evidence that ought not to be admitted at the Rio of that Hollis ; but be bed nodeubt that . the ' , Wows Pefer" b y the iiiosiamrable Goodson:a was sot adatiesoble. ruuza elesnad t that anylerstige •, A. The notes entered in this book are the that were paid for the plate.—Q. State the alth of the whole ? A. The amount of the who; £lB2l I Is. 4d. This sum includes the N5OO w was paid on the deli try of the plate. Q. (By the ArronNEv GEN f.:RA L) Is this ace headed A. It is. —Q. How ? A. Mrs. Cl debtor.. The witness was then ordered to withdraw, Mrs. Hovenden was called in. .42. (Examined by Mr. WARra.x) Do you lm Mrs Clarke A. Yes.—Q. Do you know• Col Shaw A. I never saw him but once.—Q. what yoli recollect to have passed at that inters , : A. I had been negociating an exchange for Co] Shaw with Mrs. Clarke, and lie.ivished to know principal. In consequence of which I sent Mrs. Clarke, but desired him not to tell Mrt. Ci that Mr. Donovan knew any thing of her businet Q. State what passed at that only interview you with Col. Shaw ? A. That was all that passed en my giving him a note or a card, s.►ying that Le Major Shaw.—Q. Why did you wish to: keep name of Mr. Donovan secret from Mrs. Clarke'? Because Mrs. Clarke was afraid that Mr. Don Would mention► the matter to the Duke of York, that would be her ruin. —Q. When did Mrs. Cl. express her fear respecting Mr. Donovan's being quainted with the transaction ? A. The first ever saw her.—Q. Was this before you multi( Col. Shaw to Mrs. Clarke ? A. Yes.—Q. Did ever mention Colonel Shaw t o Mrs Clarke beJ your interview . with Colonel Shaw ? A. I saw Shaw but once, ,and Mrs. Clarke but .twice sin' Q. I repeat the question ? A.. I had mEntiobed Shaw to Mrs. Clarke a long time before I saw . I believe three months before.—Q. In what war you mentioned Colonel Shaw to Mrs Clarice ? a Gentleman who wanted to get a Lieutenantl nelcy from a, Majority. Q. How did you know he wanted a Li eutenant-Coloneleyi A. Ai ter seen. Mrs Clarke, I mentioned to Mr. Donov, gentleman whom j have known for a long time. I had got 'very great interest, and that if any were wanted in the army line, I thought I cold it, without; however mentioninghow or from W. —Q. Was it Mr. aniovan that first mentic,ned Shaw to you, and wliat-did he state respecting hi you ? A. It - was, and. he said that he had gie• commendations, I - believe general Burrard'g. What further did he say of Shaw to you? A. lit that be wuuki sive t ) () if the exchange cou effected. I shah OW • was the sum.—Q. V did the case tics taikeplace ?A. In Charles ' likbak.—Q. Were yua ;eget any part of the nn VV M • hi not , !lai e here If, Yuur w as thew 2 C :e • , es • • Y v1 , 7..1 II .)tik e , t )1.);e a A. ; t Ltt'c o p )aid ? vc kncu• cl iid idly ih the 1 ikt of knc. , x ke urseli 1 nem? 1 when satiou uhea ;peAk- no:. ? r.:can vice ci ly the ion cf ; there e tim! hat si- n v.i.J lame to t.le phla ,ad be- not , .s same inotn3 lole is wlticu :entAt :1-trkz. 7, and know !olor,tl :view u• CIM tJ Less.— exct.:A ,e ovan c, and nz ac- thy I tioned id you belo7e t. Cci nee.- I,:rt av A. AC qv ;hat I had v an, a le, that uld r th:LA fet hirn rt.tt re- 'g..—Q. s.iii mid 14 Where 1-streA snorter: