Star. — London, England, 1819-07-02 00:00:00

People to be s atisfied of the inutility of th e exertions • • • af e 6at 13014 of Gentlemen called the Whigs, and was desirous of cocci:icing them that nothing could afford the Country essential relief but a Parliamen tary Reform. Hid 'he not done this—had he not waited so long, it might have bee* said that he had interfered with the Gentlemen of Opposition in the perfosmAnce of their duties, and caused the failure of their endeavours to check the career of Ministers, and he might have been even accused of being the cause of new taaes,to the amount of £3,000,000 tieing imposed. Having acted thus, failing of success now, he should not think that he ought to be considered as standing in the way of any party, it early in the next. Session he again called the attention of the House to this all-important question. He had for merly submitted to the House a plan which, in his, opinion, was neither visionary nor wild ; it was this, that 41 persons directly paying totes should be end - tied to vote for the return of a Member of Podia - meet. ..In favour of this plan, he quoted at some length the opinions of Mr. Justice Blackstone. At present, he contended, the majority or that House was improperly returned, and they vat there, know ing themselves to be the nominees of persons who by law were prohibited from all interference in the elec tion of its Members. The-rights now claimed by those who were accused of pursuing' wild and .visionary schemes, were not a tenth part of those etijoyed by their ancestors. nA would contend the country was much more free and happy under its ancient lawn than it was at preseet ; and in proof of this he re ferred to the authority of Lord Chapcellor Fortescue,l who described the English to live luxuriously, to be rich, and is every respect in a most enviable state, • compared with the people of France. The present condition of the people of England, compared with that of the people of France, was such, that it should almost seem (according to persons who had recently been in that country) that the situations of the nations were reversed. He took a review of the present dis .tresses, and shewed each of the several classes to be, calling on Parliament to afford them relief, and im pose additional burdens on their neighbours. The fact was, the country was greatly over - taxe d. The ' evil could only be remedied by a Reform in Podia.' ment, for he would tell them that no economy and retrenchment would relieve the people effectually . without a general Reform in that House. The heavy taxes levied were made additionally oppressive by the expense of collection. Formerly no expense was I created by the collection of the, revenue, and under \ another system, he thought the people would be glad •eo raise the taxes they had to pay, and transmit them without expense to the Treasury. The evils at pre soot endured were caused by a corrupt House of Commons. He had used a common phrase—" a cor rupt House of Commons, " but it was incorrect. The Gentlemen who belonged to that assembly, calling itself the House of Commons—(Cries of Order ! ) The SPEAKER here interposed. If the Honour-' able Member thought that language was consistent with what he considered to be the order of the House, some apology would be due from him (the Speaker) for having interrupted him. Sir FRANCIS J3URDETT.—" Whatever you think, Sir, out of order, I feel must be sc."--eThe Ho nourible Baronet continued : This House of Com mons was undoubtedly composed of Members most faithful to their Constituents—(Hear, hear, Marl)-1 for they discharged their duty to them in an honest, true, and °pee way, and that in the face even a public odium (Heat, hear I) That odium, too, was often manifested in a most unpleasant way. They pursued, indeed, the interests of their employers, but not of Public, for the Public did not employ them (a laugh.) Then as to the Septennial Act, which Dr., Johnson had termed a far greater outrage on public freedom, and, a more flagrant constitutional wrong, than the Smarts ever attempted in the height of their power, these Gentlemen had no opinion at all, or did not express it upon real grounds. The true, legal, and constitutional question, as to whether those who came into Parliament represented those who sent them only, or whether they were not the representa tives of the whole kingdom, and therefore might act unfairly during seven long years, in direct opposi- .1 tion to the desires and wishes of their Constituents, never came into competition for a moment with' the' interest of their nominees; for any of these Gentle men would think himself the most dishonourable of men, if he continued to keep his seat in opposition to the wishes and principles of those who sent him. And though these Gentlemen might not canvass questions of a popular nature, yet there were mbny of them who might be, and he believed were, brave men, for they did not yield to the clamours of the people (Hear, head) And why should they? They had nothing to do with them.- But then the slightest whisper of their principles made itself heard to them. He contended also that the King himself was no longer possessed of the powers and authorities be longing to the regal office. The prerogatives of the Crown had been vested in it for the good of the Na tion at large. Their existence formed an indispen sable part of our Constitution; but ander the presesit system they were exercised, not by the Sovereign, but by those who surrounded his throne, and made use of his authority for their own purposes. He was, indeed, incapable of performing even that act which it might have been thought must be left to him—the act of choosing his own Ministers. It v?as necessary for him to select them either from one set of borough proprietors or another. Neither could he select one individual of a faction and reject the rest. It was like the situation of a country gentleman, who being desirous of engaging a person for his steward, was told, that in such a case the steward's brother must be butler, and some other friend the cook. To him, however, this appeared to be a sad necessity for a King of England to be reduced to.. He should per haps hear it urged, that he was openly professing a Tory doctrine, , and He would avow that the princi ples of those who were called Tories in the reign of . Queen Anne formed the substance of his political creed. klis belief that the Sovereign ought to have the free and unrestrained enjoyment of his cons: tional rights, might be stigmatised as a base and sub missive doctrine, and as contrary to the spirit of, Whiggism. He had only to answer, that he had al ready declared - the inclination of his mind, though he wished such party distinctions were for ever buried to oblivion. His persuasion was, that the only means of enabling the Crown to acquire and preserve -the affections of the people, was to restore to it those at- *AI \ .0 V. I * F r • tributes which were essential ta its 'dign e,_ tiaas. , ! public mind was intexicated by his elOquence, and which it had been stripped by the bonaugh f it and of I tire ascendancy over the councils Of kis coronary. The security of every throne. The love and reverence of its subjects werewtahhee,bwesats hdeeluansidonslisepondelduesliuosaiohnarve:eceitasehdistocgoemthmerasndan. d But and only lasting taken from magician was no more, an t country rtes great property of the Crown had been . the meace of securing them to be uithheld? y Thereality stood naked . befo d re h o e ureyes. T w h a e s which powerfully reminded him of those lines ob- of that delightful poet Armstrong great pensioner on the Public. It had been . well it, and it was now placed in the odious light of a i suasion Mr happiest yOU of all that e'er were mad, served by Junius, that " the feather which adorns m in i gh a S t " Or are, or shall be, could this folly last : the royal bird supports his flight ; strip }situ of his But soon your heaven is gone ; a heavier gloom plumage, and you fix him to .the earth." Such a con- Shuts dition of things was wholly inconsistent with the s ti . ta i s n o' e T oer yo it a s r ea b h ank ti s , sod, w ihzthdeenthund'riiig mountain rstuceant,, le S Sin o when the franti ult c raptures in your breast ancestors, and ks from it s tum plan of government established b y our to a sint brook ; in his opinion quite adverse to the r eal trite tests of Subside, you languish into mortal m an, . , the country, He knew from our own history in many You sleep, and, waking, find yourself undon e ! ' of its most brilliant parts, and from the glorious countrywh o had toa carriedh i gher Incncitsi:lplawseosubled ‘ b s e ill th a e w f a a k te e, o a f ad th , is country—after a .......... waking, find herself undrine ! . side in the z a In vain might Gentlemen. on the opposite side in any other station, what streams of public good pointin ha p pine s spt h l e n of av o a was and iv i odw d gn i l i u n pra t :fret Kings ,icach the i r o individuals talk of our flourishing revenues, our industry, ou r e t i d an exercise hahad vested o f those ia pre she which we an ew d em en i d n ea vo y l o v u ed r t w o a psua s e i r mag d in e a u r s y th . that o tl t re e r v u e i in yoga b e m ro i g g at ht iv fl e n s w wh frn ich tu th th e e C u o n n fet st t i er tu Crown. In the maintenance of-his Royal dignity, ------- to whose magic song the King of England had formerly exercised a hes- The huge Plinliramon bov'd his cloud-capt head, $ would be competent . to such an undertaking.--- ging the love of his subjects, and their willing obe pitality suitable to it, and well calculated for en avail,a- SthuerchthuaanreatledyescprripotvieodusthwaetreGoofvleartalemeat w a a n s y c f o a a r- .1 far dience to his authority. If he were to refer to any himselfrio rl, or nio s t t o 4 a i n sv y ose s o d e ere to i been said by some Gentlemen, "Give us good men— pride scious of. owing something to the people. It had let us have a change of Ministers, and we will ensure gn che w ri h sh ose wi m th ern se n n r iimtas was of Sete and fondness, it would undoubtedly be the reign of Queen Elizabeth. That exemplary .. reign wanted no standing army ; such pn institution than such a maxim. It could not be s maintained for you good measures.' Nothing was more visionary ', was contrary to all her maxims of government. The an instant, but against the exp erience of all history dangers, however, with which she had to co ntend and all men—against Locke , agains t Machiavel, and were greater than any which had ever threatened the above all, against our great and gl o r ious countr y . country since, or perhaps•before. By the wisdom of man Harrington. That excellen t man had held, that her counsels, and the heroic courage of her nature, h e w h o says—" Give us good mew, and we will have . she was enabled to, overcome them; and when asked good laws," had spoken the language of a dema by the Spanish Ambassador, as he beheld h e r receiv- gogue ;but that he who said, " Give us g ood orders, ing the unbought homage of affection, where her and they will give us good men , " sp oke the axiom ofl guards were, she pointed to her people , and said-a Legislakor r —Wear, hear). Ile (Sir Francis) and all e These are my geards." To her mind, there was the friendeof Reform, would maintain that to pro no satisfaction in occupying a throne surroun ded b y mote it was the interest of the King and of peo armed men. It was also an observation of the same ple ;of the public creditor ; in short, of all ordeis magnanimous Princess, that her best exchequer was and ranks. Indeed, there was one class of the people to be found in the purses of her people. By a steady to whom it would be obnoxious, but to whose ex adherence to these principles, s h e h a d l e ft a name, istence the Constitution was totally a stranger—he which, though not altogether unblemished, would or Eng- meant the proprietors of rotten Boroughs. Ag ain he last as long as England should be a nation , should ask pardon for being obliged to use terms, from lishmen.retain a sense of duty, patriotism, or grati tude in their hearts. Another point that required which he should much rather abstain — ingeniu m meurn non moverat sed necessitas cogit. The simple truth the most serious consideration was the enormous ex- was, that the system of corruption in Parliamentary pense—an expeose which the people would notper- representation was grinding the people to atoms. haps be much longer able to support, which this Because these Borough-men had great influence in system had imposed upon the country (Hear , hear! the State, because they hti barracks erected round We had arrived at such a point of taxation, that the the country, they thought that they could support Right Honourable Gentleman, the (Chancellor of the the baneful system against the moral sense of the Exchequer), whom he willingly believed to be in people at large. If they thought so, they were widely private life an example of morality, of good con- mistaken ; and with respect to a great standing army, duct, and good feeling, when applied to for the re- though the experience of history had decided that mission of a tax which operated to injure the health such establishments could not consist with the liber of the people in Ireland to such a degree that it was ties of the country where they existed—and though , called the" Fever Tax," as W contagion was not suf- he was convinced that whatever was in the circum-, ficiendy destructive amongst a people, whose open stances of England to render her an exce p tion to this doors and hospitable tempers more peculiarly exposed great rule, still he was not sufficiently so as to make them to its ravages, the Right Honourable Gentle- him think that they could not be quite harmless man replied, that be was excessively sorry, but the there. Yet he must be permitted to observe, that he tax could not be spared In the labouring state of the had. far less apprehensions of those who were cleithed, finances, So when hewn called upop by another in red, than of the Gentlemen of the long robe, au& Gentleman to abandon another plan for raising mo- those 'lathed in black—(Laughter). I%e country', ney, which might be said to return a mere pepper- was absolutely Undone by taxation. The taxes pressed corn to the Exchequer, in comparison with its per- upon -the strings of reproduction, and in -effect it was, nicious tendency to create low gambling and every a moot point amongst some, whether the syste m species of immorality, although the Right Honour- would not fail in mealier year, in case that the come; able Gentleman was, he believed, a Member of the try was summoned to any considerable exertion. Society for the Suppression of Vice—(Laughler)— Even supposing a war, ,ever so necessary, were to he was forced to declare, that the distressed state of call upon the country, it would be etterly impossible the country rendered Lotteries indispensable. The that under the present state of things, that that del same statement was reiterated, when the situation of mand could be answered. It was said, that we should large classes of persons who were almost expiring be placed in a commanding position—that we should under the weight of their burdens, was brought for- be put in a bullying . state. Nothing could be worse ward as a case that called upon Parliament for re- than such a suggestion at a moment when our pow* lief. It had been said, that from no plan of eco- was exhausted. Why, there was not a boxer in E ' nomy could any great relief be immediately expected. land who could not inform the Minister there was no He himself certainly looked upon it as hopeless, , un- good in a permanent attitude of defence. He would til that House should be differently composed, and recommend a relaxed state of the body at intervals, the whole system of Government carried on upon a as necessary to recruit it. Just so the country,- 1 - reduced scale of expense. And here he might ask, It requires to be placed in a relaxed posture—it was what would be the situation of the public - creditor, to no purpose thus to stretch it eternally in an atti- 1 unless -measures of solid economy were adopted? He tude of defence, ready to drop on the first object was immediately interested in a Reform of Perlis- that approached it. But he would defy the Minister, ment. His security must be increased by the effec- or any other man, to support the present system upon tual accomplishment of an object, the consequence - the ground of our strength. Suppose that the spirit— of which would be the equal protection of the rights not of Cain, but of Hampden, should re-animate the and interests of all. If a crisis should arrive when people—still there would be as little reason as ever the interests of the public creditor must come into for those, whose employ it was to vote away the conflict with those of the borough faction, no doubt liberties and lives of the country. But all these the ordinary result would take place, and the weakest grievances will be put a stop to, says the Minister, would go to the wall. From what he knew of the by the strength of the country. The circumstance state of the country, he had reason to believe that reminded him of a story he remembered to have read the £3,000,000 of new taxes would not, at the expi- of Dr. Johnson's father. He .was a bookseller in ration of the year, haye produced £9,000,000 of re- Litchfield, and an exceedingly cautious careful man venue—(Hear, hear).—The public creditor, therefore, in securing his shop door and windows at night.— and, indeed, every class of society, from the King However, by some chance, thieves got into the house ' to the Cottager, had a strong motive for desiring an and stole away the goods by a back door. Thus were improved popular representation. The advocates of Ministers circumstanced.` They guarded the front Reform had been called visionary, became-they of the country against intrusion—they bolted and they. e()- dwelt so long and so often on what they esteemed barred at one side—but here in Parliamentary the one thing needful. He had, nevertheless, seen ruption was a little black dog, whichagainst men of at least as great talents as were possessed by could not guard. In short, there was no security any whom he saw around him, (and he said this with- for the country but a House of Commons appointed out any wish to disparage them, or extol departed, by the great bulk of the people at large. Extensivel at the expense'of living merit), who entertained the suffrage, in his mind, was less useful than that plan 'same views. So many ineffectual efforts hid been of mirage which shall give equal rights to a majo- I made, so many hopes had been disappointed, that thy bf the country. He had not so much in view to the people were almost in a state or despitir. He urge any particular plan of reform, as to point out himself had no confidence in the probable success of the necessity of it—to expose the corrupt state of re any measures, however ingeniously devised or exe- presentation—and to induce the House of Commons cuted, so long as the system remained unaltered. The to hold out some hope to the wounded mind of the failure of . former plans of amelioration and relief people. He would mot now insist on the abstract had been foretold, unless the one thing needful , right to extensive suffrage which the country might should be adopted, and their failure had punctually possess—he would only seek for so much as was ne-. taken place. Many years ago, Mr. Pitt had declared cessary for his purpose. The Right Honourable Gen e Reform in the Representation to be absolutely ne- tleman opposite, and his colleagues, talked much of cessary; he had said, that in the present stateof the the flourishing state of the country—all said they Representation no honest man could conduct public were very. well. This business of " very well" and affairs, and, in fact, that no honest man could be e very ill" however, was all matter of calculation. Minister. He predicted, that without a Reform the A thing might be " very well" indeed for ore, but country would be plunged into new wars, undertaken very ill for another. Dividere, antputare, secure Wet, like the American war, for the purpose of extinguish- said a great surgeon—a surgeon by the bye, who ing liberty in whatever Trader of the world it should did many very inhuman acts in the course of his ex appear. He foresaw the accumulation of fresh debts periments. The system of cutting and hacking, ac and difficulties, and unfortunately heed to verify and cording to him, would work " very well" : but what illustrate his own predictions. Aided by h,is own was the opinion of the poor patient under the knife— apiandid talents, and by an extraordinary coincidenee did he think it le very well ?"—( A laugh).—The of circumstances, he was enabled to acquire an en- dialogue between the grave-diggers in Hamlet would afford some further illustration upon this subject_ ‘Says one to the other—" Prithce tell me, who is he that builds stronger than the mason, the carpenter, or the shipwright ?" The answer was, " the gallows maker:"—" the gallows," it was replied, 0 did well:' aye, but how did it " do well ?" why, by " doin g well to those who did ill !" The Noble Lord oppo site, who slept on a bed of roses, why should he not say, stag n i a t n; t d ra oe d s e waelltleit country well" ywas ith h im the flourishing--the starving manufacturers were rioting in °pulsate...-. They who used this language, spoke, peihaps, what they believed ; they lived in a land of delusion...-in a perfect paradise, totally unattackable by those 2241- ries which bowed down the great body of the peoples But he said, and he now repeated it, that his great object was to endeavour, by the aid of reason, to im press upon Gentlemen in that Honse, and out of that House, even upon the Borough Proprietors,• the necessity of coming to some agreement with the people. He would repeat, that it was the interest e fo y r ad h he e refedltcoconuld thaparticular the ,spit tnyoub ehe,s was ,ci tt certainly r l sheleaot a dnomneird s olot hiw s ovfincthedis,totosvhdoich93th, not be supported much longer without bringing about a ruin that would inevitably involve chem..-- It was not his intention, indeed it would not be in hit power, at present to enumerate all the grievantes under which the country was groaning. It was not alone those classes, multiplied as they were, who were crying out against abuse, that ' suffered. In every institution—in prisons, in madhouses, in my lams, &c. abuses would be found to exist. But per- • haps the greatest abuse of all existed in the monstrous expenses and delays in Courts of Justice. It was said by Lord Coke, that the King was always supposed to be presiding in Courts of Justice, with this language in his mouth—" Nulli negabimus, trulli drfereaus, ;twill vendanus rectum etjustitiam." But must not the • country now be compelled to say—" Negatur, de fct tur, venditur justitia et rectum ?" The judgment indeed was there, but the expenses of obtaining it were great, and men would rather brook an in justice than lose twice the amount of it by seeking , for uncertain redress--(Hear.)--From our Courts of 'Law, the best, the wisest institutions that any coun try could boast, the venerable maxims of the Consti tution were driven away, and driven away by Acts of Parliament. The Court of Chancery- r fir meant no disrespect to the high indilidual • who presided there—but the Court of Chancessi• wax tjr . cause of more human misery than was ever produced by Mf p institution in any civilized country. It was the nature of the system of the administration of our law that produced these dreadful effects—it was the l scanda lous wliy, in which taxes were placed upon the pro ceedings in that Court. What was the end of Go vernment ? To see that justice is to be had, and to be had cheap, so that the poor and the rich spay be put upern.an equality. But here was the great end wholly evaded. A striking instance of the grievance tb which he alluded occurred not long since to his own knowledge. A defendant had occasion to put in a ft answer to the plaintiff's bill, but it was first neces sary to obtain an o ffi ce copy of certain accounts— The defendant applied to the Court for a copy. What would the House think was the price of the office copy—the mere o ffi ce- copy ? perhaps 10001. or 50001.?—perhaps ten or may be 20.0001.? Not to keep the House in suspense, the amount was ac t-n*lly twenty-Wine thousand pounds. The Lord Chan cellor, indeed, upon this occasion dispensed with the office copy. Whether cr not his Lordship over stepped his power it was not now necessary to inquire. But if he was disinclined to exercise it, what would be the result to the suitor ?—( Hear , hear.) Again,. he would disclaim any disrespectful allusion to the Noble Judge. This statenf thing was chie fl y owing ,(as he had said before) to the enormnus 'Stamp Du ties. But it might be asked what had these subjects to do with Parliamentary Reform ? A great deal. A sound Parliament would havE taken care that nb such duties would have been imposed, and that the Courts of Justice would be free. At this moment no person worth less than ten pounds could look for jus tice—if any person indeed with only so much in his pocket would think of going into a Court of Justice. All these facts served as samples to exhibit the want of a constitutional controul. The want of a real re presentation of the people which the constitution always supposes to exist, and which would guard against abuse in the raising and the application of taxes. But under the present system it was only when abuses became notorious that an enquiry was set about, and when it did take place even the result only proled an aggravation of the evil, or the en- Hauiry ended in some expensive and totally ine ffi cient measure. The Honourable Baronet then concluded bx moving, that early in-the next Session this House v& take into its consideration, the state of the Re presentation of the People. 'Mr. G. LAMB felt considerable satisfaction at ending, that the terms of the motion would compre hend all those who entertained views friendly to re form, whatever differences on some points might pre vail amongst them. He did not rise to follow the Honourable Baronet through the whole course of !ns argument, because he did not think his most eloquest or happy passages were connected with the points l of difference to which he had alluded. As he di:,- tented, however,from those doctrines which had been supported at other times by the Honourable Baronet, he felt that it behoved him to be more speci fi c in drawing a line between himself and those doctrines. Whatever might have been the march of reform, of Uibich they hail heard so much—and he was strongly Itsclined to think, that since the Honourable Baronet L and his coadjutors had placed themselves at its head, that march had been little more than what was in military language called marking time, an act whiCh consisted tinsonit bsTuitfoahu rather aapn.ne the s its:(tc ionoeslibningeH : n,:i 1; ' te were o i s iii as edr rejoiced retrograde making mo t i d o u n s dust motion—(A 1 a n It o gh progress, )—li isp e r o r . 1 :il l h : ani nytihtdoin T h e ht hgdehr boroughs h aeohaneptusnt e doirglvho eifii under stoo desncicl reesre:tho.a con victed etn t au e di dyontfh s t iveubnasamte e rrhdgp, lai b co thati oeabsr a t pntotw r. itlahhreet f ayetm ei suchht Baronetch neHa e ni bdt sec progress fo rnch, ii. egiirnneuimng oref(lnourramberle. presence, o h e insgdhaiys sv i: i NV a awns, investiga tionsißfarocpoonns;sselibitbm'usleted‘lt'othh as s istanc e i and that the fruit of his labours was the resolution before the House. With respect to his own opinion: upon the subject of reform, he should wish to see, in 0 •