Star. — London, England, 1807-02-06 00:00:00

AA there would be much lets danger to b e nd from rebellion. Lord SIDMOUTH had given the utmott attention to this fubjeCt for the IA twenty yeari, and felt ex treme pain to differ materially from thole with whom b e had been moll intimately connected in his opinion on this fubjeCt. It silo gave him great pain to differ ea r this fnbjeCt from the general feeling of the great fly of the people of this country. No man was more thoroughly convinced than he was of the injuaice and enormity of the trade in itfelf, and no Man more fin. m ai walled for its abolition; but he retained the f a me opinion now that he had formerly exprefled, t h at a gradual abolition would be the only effeetual Bla de of destroying this trade. When he laid he wa tt' the trade to be abolifhed as loon as poflible, he did not mean as loon as worldly wifdom and confiders. tions diem:Tß would make it prudent, hut as foon as the thing could really be done. He willed to abo. Efh the Trade of Slaves from Africa, but he did not ith merely to (hilt the trade from the merchants of Li ve rpool to the met chants of other nations, that are always our rivals in commerce, and our enemies in war. The celebrated Mr. Burke, who was ait warm a hiend as any man to the entire abolition of the trade, thought that the bell means of effeOing it would be to throw °Wades and impediments in the way of it, which would in time amount to an abfolute prohibi. tion. In this opinion he always coincided, and there fore he had voted for all the meafures of that nature which had been propnfed IR, to prevent Britifh !hips from fupplying foreign colonies with Raves ; Idly, to prevent the importation of them in the new conquered colonies ; and, 3317, to prevent any more (hips being employed in the trade. He hadalfoheartily concurred in the op:nion of his Mojelty's Govern. mint, with refpeet to the iflard of Trinidad, that the experiment Ihould be tried of fettling it by Planters, who timid come with their Eaves from the neigh. bouring fettlements of Demarara and Surinam, but that no encouragement Ihould be given to thofe who imported Eaves from Africa. Since that experiment, another attempt was made to fettle that nand, by introducing a number of Chinefe fettlers. Of this attempt he alt . () moil entirely approved. He did not conceive it poflibie that the Blacks could at prefent keep up their population, when the difproportion was fo great between males and females; neither would he allow that the return of the birthroand burials was a fair criterion to judge of the increafe of population by, as many more children died than there did of adults. He laid that it appeared by the Militia Re turns, that tile increafe of adults in this country was greater than the inereafe of the population, as calculated from the births and burials. He therefore contidered, that the abolition mita immediately produce a diminution in the number of naves, which would neceffarily produce alio a diminution in culti vation. While the demands of Europe remain as at prefent, any diminution in the cultivation in our iflands mull be made up by an increafed cultivation in the colonies of our rivals, which could only be done by African (laves. He thought the prefent Eaves in the Weft Indies would be extremely difcnn tented when they found that no more of their coun trymen were to be imported, and that they were never to bear again either from their country or their relatives, but that the ocean was for ever interppied between them, and all communication cut off. He had always thought, that the gradual emancipation of the Eaves would fooner lead to the total abolition of the trade than the abolition of the trade would to the emancipation of the (laves, which was an eve tt extremely to be defied, but could not be effected at once. He had certainly no confidence in the Repre fentative Affemblies of the lflands ever doing any thing for the improvement of the fituation of the Eaves, which their own intereß did not point out as abfolutely necefrary. He concluded by declaring his opinion againfi the total abolition. Lord ROSSLYN was convinced that the imme diate abolition of this odious traffic would be attend ed with no injurious effefts to the colonies, to the cul tore of which the Negroes already imported were fully competent, if properly treated. Such treatment, it might be laid, it was the obvious intereß of the Planterto give the Negroes, and therefore it might inf-t red that they experienced it already, and yet that importation became neceirary to keep up the fop ply. This, however, he was prepared to contradict. Be knew that planters and their agents were too much in the habit of facrificing their intereß to their pal Eons, which they were nut likely to controul either from their own.will or from the prefcriptions of the Colonial Legiflatures, until by prohibiting farther im portation they (hould be urged by the pull - tire of ne cellity to do fo. It was only from the Itrongefi im pnlfe of felf intereß, from the moll cogent perfuation of neceffity, that men of loch habits were likely to adopt the praftice of humanity. When unable to pro cure any more negroes, they would feel the urgency of taking care of thole they already had. With regard to the Ratement of the Noble Earl (Weltinoreland), as to the various defcription of perfons who concurred I in a with to produce the abolition of this trade , he thought that formed a forcible argument in favour of the meafure before the Houfe. For the concurrence of men of all religions, of all political parties, and even of thofe who profefTed no relig ion, in fuppori of this meafure, ferved to thew, that to all who were fut . - ceptible of a fentiment of humanity ; who were ca. pable of difcriminating between the beauty of virtue and the deformity of vice, this traffic was abhorrent. With fuch an unanimity of fentiment ; with fuch a combination of powers, could that Houk, without fixing a Rain upon its charafter ; without incurring univerfal odium, hefitate to accede to the motion of his Noble Friend ? Vifccunt SIDMOUTH role to explain, with re fpeCt to the ircreafe of population, and objected that fuch inmate had taken place in particular Elands. Earl ST. VINCENT deprecated the meafure, which, if paired, would, he was fatisfied, have the effera of transferring Britilh capital to other countries, which would not he difpofed to abandon loch a pro duftive branch of trade. As to the humanity fo much contended for, it would be well if Noble Lords re- Hefted this queltion, whether humanity was con fulted by the abolition. If it were, their arguments would be well tonoded.—But, from his own expe rience, he was enabled to (late, 'hat the Weft India Hands formed Paridife itfelf, to the Negroes, in "VI iron with their native country. Thawing thisi which, upon due inquiry. it was in the p :wer of any Noble Lord to a:certain, he was furpriaed at the 'Propotition bernre the Tioure .1 And, confidering the high charadter and intelligence of the Noble Prnpofer, he declared that•he could account in no other way ror Hs having brought It forward, but by fuppoling that fome Obt-man had call his fpell upon him (a laagh.) Lord •KING argued forcibly in fupport of the mo tion, which, in his (minion, nothing but the facrifice of every generous and manly fentiment to cold and low calculations of felfintereft—nothing but a per verfion of jultice and humanity, could induce any man to defend. And with regard to the reliance which forne'perfons profeffed to place upon the equity and teelirgs of the Colinial Legiflatures, he begged to know if a perverfinn of inflict and humanity were fupported in that I-Lotre, whar was to be expected from let's enlightened and lilies al afft.nblies ? Lord NOI27I'HESK detailed feve-al inflanees of wanton cruelty praelifed upon he negrnes in the co lonies by their matters, who were fcarcely under the controuLof any law with regard to their conduit. If humane treatment were oraetifed tow aids he negroes he was certain, from his knnwledoe of the ildetior of the colonies, that a futficient supply could be kept op far every purpofe of cultivation, and filch to ment, the good effects of which he had oitneff.:.! in St. Chritlopher's and other of the colonies. 1. as n r, he was very much afraid, ever likely tohe,:nme general, until the Planters were precluded from folthca plies. As to the affertinn of the N hie Earl ( st. Vincent ) with refpeet t:t the celettiol comforts of the naves, he was rather dirporcd to think that h”wever long that Noble Lnr I might hove been itationed in the Welt Indies, he had Peen very little f the inte 7 . rior of any of the colonies, ur he would not have made that afrertion. _ Lord ELDON (poke againft the meafure, which he thought went farther, and urged a procedure more precipitate than even the advocates for the abo lition could require, if their feelings were at all influ. enced by confederations of policy or jullice towards our own merchants. The Ad prohibiting any more so.ffels from eno ig'ng or being built for the porpafe of the flame ade, wrothd naturally tend to the gra. dual abortion of that trade, which was as much as any rat:onal refleeting advocate of the meafure could defire. The confequence of a ludden abolition upon our colonies, upon the colonies of others, and upon our mercatrilt intereft, ought to he ferioully urged. But it was contended that jirilice and humanity fo loudly called for the abolition, that no argument drawn from any other fource ought to be attended to. It would be well, however, before any decifion was come to upon this important meafure, delibe rately to confider thefe quettions ; firft, whether the trade was contrary to the principles of joHice and humanity ? and, fecondly, whether it would be con formable to thole principles to abalifh it, while it was continued by other nations ? It was admitted on all fides that the treatment which the Negroes experi enced from &hill' dealers was humanity itfelf, com pared to that which they met from thofe of other nations concerned in the traffic. Of courfe, fhould we withdraw from the trade, while other nations purfue it, humanity would be outraged, becaufe the fate of the Negroes would be aggravated. The Noble Lord concluded with an exhortation to the Houfe if the abolition were determined on, at kali to take care that the property of thofe who have fo long, upon the faith of Parliament, been engaged in this traffic, fhould nor fuller. The Bilhop of DURHAM (poke fhortly in fupport of the Abolition. Though it thould be argued that the Slave Trade was favourable to the commercial interests of the nation, he fhould Hill fay that it was unworthy of us to Peek fuch means of wealth, fo holtile to the principles of morality and religion. The Earl of MOIRA, in a very eloquent, but temperate fpeech, took a general view of the fubjeCt ; he thought that the evidence upon the table of the Houfe mull be fufficieat to convince their Lordfhips of the neceffity of abolifhing this fanguinary Trade. If Noble Lords were not fatisfied with this evidence, he referred to Holy Writ, he referred them to that great work of our forefathers (the Old Testament) and that great Commentator upon that work, whole maxim was, " Do unto others as you would they fhould do unto you." Lord HAWKESBURY admitted that the Slave Trade was a great political evil, and that it was de flyable to put an end to it; but confidering that flavery had been permitted under the Jewifit Difpenfation, that there was no exprefs prohibition of it in the Chriftian : that it was a condition of mankind which many great and wife men in all ages had fanEtioned, he was not prepared to fay that to allow flavery was a crime. Neverthtlefs, combining Slavery and a Slave Trade, he thought that it was matter of regret the latter had ever exifted, and that it was deferable to abolifh it. The queftion was, however, whether it could be aholifhed by the propofed meafure, and whe ther the confequences would be beneficial to the Na tions of Africa ? He contended that the Slave Trade in Africa had fubfiPfd before Europeans had entered upon the Trade, an he doubted whether their with di awing from it ould put an end to the evil, or tend fo much as was argued to the internal peace and improvement of Africa. He denied, however, that our withdrawing from it would abolifh the trade ; and if it only (bitted hands, the change would be to the difadvantage of the negroes, and of the carafe of humanity. The French would, in all probability, refart to it, the Spaniards would encourage it, and the Portuguefe and other nations would carry it on ; and probably Britifh capital would embark in it. He bad always thought that the moll effectual means of abolifhing the trade would be by regulations and duties amounting ultimately to a prohibition. Upon the whole he contended that the prefent meafure would only transfer the African trade to others, to the great difadvantage of this nation, and the lois of the %Vett India Planters. To compaa among the different Powers to abolifh the traffic would be the molt effec tual remedy ; but if we began the thin; in this man ner,all argument to induce otheriPowers to enter into a compad was removed. Lord HOLLAND fiipported the Abolition. Hefaid that the arguments of Lord Eldon refpeCting the opi nions of former Statefmen and Legiflators; Lord So. merh Mr. Locke, &c. would, in their application, put a flop to all improvement. But could it be fuppofed that fo great and wife a man as Mr. Locke, after reading the evidence which lay on the table refuelling the Slave Trade, would give it his fanflion ? The evil• was now expoled, and could not be defended. As well might we be told that the reformation was wane b:ffary, as it might be laid, could a R.evcrcnd Prelate k he more AV ire thaniSir T. More, or More It • void than Erafmns? It was in vain, therefore, to fay that the Slave Trade was jellified by the authority of thofe l erhofb attention had never been tailed to its enormit Y. 1 The Chriflian religion had tended to abolifh fla very in Europe, and its principle equally led us to abolifh the detenable, traffic in human beings on the ccal of Africa. He contended, on the authority of Mr. Park, that the demand for naves tended to perpetuate wars in the interior of Africa, and mamtainedrahat if the market were taken away, the horrors which led to its fupply would ceafe. He infifled, that if the trade were abolifhed, the flock of Neg roes in the Weft Indies would be kept up by the ordinary means of increafe, which could not be the cafe while the trade continued, and the intereß of the Planters found its account in a different fytlem He maintained, that it was imponible to believe that the gate of a Negro in the Welt Indies was fuch as to head him to prefer it even to slavery in Africa, and it was abfurd to think fo, confidering the new kind of labour to which he was condemned, when he had never been accullomed to firth habits, and when he mull be torn te-om his country and connedions. He was convinced too, that far from weakening, the meafure would tend to the fecurity of our iflands, and he (hewed, flom the inflance of Barbadoes, and that in the cafes where the importation of Negroes ; was the leaf}, the proportion of whites to blacks ' was greaten. He concluded with a pathetic allufion . tt the fentiments of Mr. Fox on this fubjed. Mr. Fox I had often told him that the two objefts neareß his heart were, the refloration of Peace, and the Aboli tiun of lie Slave Trade, which he ufed always to de nominate with peculiar emphafis a torrent of iniquity; and when, by the Ihuffiing of the French Govern ment he anti} ipated difappointment in the obtaining of a Peace, he confoled himfelf with the hope that the latter might be obtained. His Lordfhip then 1 mentiJned with approbation the exertions of others in this cattle, and particularly of Mr. Wilberforce, whom, though he was hardly acquainted with him, he Mould always confider, notwithflanding any pet or any future differences of opinion on other points, as an honour to his country and to human nature, on account of the zealous, able, and perfevering efforts he had made for the abolition of this odious traffic. The H tufe then divided, and there were, For the fecond reading of the Bill Proxies Oily to *cattle to fume -ef Ito ion, and di:eft Adler t 4 Attorney General to profecote, or to order. Come other procefs confonent with its juriii.tinion and pri vileges. When he refleded on the charges Mad: againd Mr. Davifon, be thought that the frauds or abufes, let them be charaderiaed With what epithet they might, were fobjeds of a criminal profccutiott. The J arrnals had records of fimil4r proceedings, where the Houle ordered the Attorney General to profecute ; there was one very Ilrong inflance in the reign of Queen Anne, where a beer contrador was profecuted by the then Attorney General for abufes committed in the cominding of his contrail, and waist convided : and he few no reafon why the Hock fhoold not now follow the like precedent. In the cute of Mr. Divifon, a Rotel/lent had been laid bea lore the Attorney and Solicitor General, who have given their opinion, and his objeet in calling for that opinion was., to call for fich a proceeding as the Houle (horrid in its difcretion appoint; at prefent, the' have only decided on the rconiary tide of the quer. ti.n, but I,e meant to aim at the criminal fide the; eof. The Right Hon. Gentleman then alluded to one tranfadron as mentioned in the Report, viz. the fail of Mr. Davifon buying coals at the moil reduced price, from a Mr. Hargrave, at Brighton Barracks, and felling them the fame day at the molt ad vanced, namely, a' Go fhillings the chaldron ; and alfo charging commiflion for the fame. The next was the fa& refpetling the fapply of too chaldron, bought and delivered the fame day, am which he had not only the like profit on the rale between the lowed market price and the highed fate price, but alto made a furcharge for the carriage, from 2s 6d. which he paid, to 1 as. which the Barrack Matter General paid to him. There were other circumfiances of a limiter defcription, and when Mr. Davifon was the offending perfon himfelf, or that the crimes were committed by tubordinate agents, was not for him to fay; of that, Mr. Davifon was to acquit himfelf if he could, but had already been examined by the Committee, and of two fpecific charges he could give no account, his memory, he faid, havisig failed him rerpeding them ; but one he acknowledged to be true. There was another inflance wherein he Was concerned with an unhappy man, who has recently [offered the punifhment of the law for a capital rf fence ; ( Walker, who a fiw months Ace was executed for forgery) and that man, whilst under fentence of, death in Newgate, fent a Ratement of his dealings with D2vifon, wherein he made feveral fevere accu fetions againtt him ; but the interference of the left Ad of the law prevented any further enquiry into the matter, and the circumstances have not ; et been afcertained. He thought that, as far as I! , pectin , . all affairs were to be regarded, the public might re cover back a confiderable funs of money firm Mr. Davidlon. The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to otter abufes committed in 1803, and urging the pt,ll - of the Houfe ordering loch profecutioq, is would anfwer the ends of public julice, moved, ' That there be laid before the Home that o: inlets of eAt • , tome y and Solicitor General, which they bad giv , n on aca aatcd to then!, enecerning Abufes and Fr .vii in the I )epartme .of the Ihenck Matter General, as arifing o .t of the Dend itcpyrt of the Committee of Military Enquiry:' . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIitc . S.JER Rated that this was a duty peculiarly incumbront on the Lot ds of the Treafury to attend to, and that they had taken every Rep which was requifite, to king the matter to a fair and full invedigation as foot' s circumftances would permit. Ni. pro. - ecution had a yet been commenced, becaure it had been thought nett to wait for the effect of the Bill, vi hich was then before the Houfe, to compel Mr. Davifon to a pro dudinn of his cafh account with the late Barrack Mailer Genet al. If the Lords of the Treafury did not proceed in the profecution as fpeedily as poffible, it mould then be competent to the Houfe to inter fere ; but he could affure the Houfe no time would be 101 l to obtain a full invelligation. He mull, how ever, obje& to the production of this Paper, becaufe the production of it would certainly thew the defen d int all the 9rong bearings of the cafe againtt him, and all the weak points adhering to the nature of the cafe and thereby enable him to fortify himfelf againß the one, and to take advantage of the other. For there reafon', he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would agree to withdraw his motion. Mr. PERCEVAL agreed that the motion ought to be withdrawn. He differed from his Right Han. Friend with refped to the pradice of the Houfe ; for, if the precedents were eatery examined, it would ap pear that in thofe cafes where the Houfe had taken up the matter, the difcoveries had been made by Com mittees of their own, and were conneded with tome affair before the Houfe. But even if the Houfe thould take the proceedings in this cafe into its own hands, he thought that the Attorney and Solicitor General ought to be ordered to proceed on the Report, merely v ithout giving in any previous detailed opinion. The reafon why he thought fo, was founded on the mif chievous effeds that would refult from premature publicity, as had been Rated by the Noble Lord.— But while there was no pretence that the Treafury did not do its duty, he apprehended that it was much better to leave the cafe in their hands. Mr. ROSE faid, that after what had fallen from the Noble Lord, he would certainly, with leave of the Houfe, withdraw Isis motion. Lori ARCHIBALD HAMILTON explained, that the reafon why he had the other night withdrawn MR. DAVISON. his Motion on this fubje& WAS, that he thought it Mr. ROSE, in purfuance of his notice, called the, would be attended with great inconvenience to inter attention of theHoufe to the third Report of the Corn- fere with the Reps that had been already taken by the mittee of Military Enquiry. He obferved, that the Triafury. Public certainly was very much indebted to the cur- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rednefs with which that Committee had conduded begged it to be underdond, that no profecution had their fcrutiny ; and the objed he had in view, in as yet commenced, for the reafons which he Rated on calling for the paper he fpecified, was to follow tip *former night. It was thought more advifeable to that enquiry with a meafure conducive to the public pollpone any profecution till it could be feen what good, by calling . for the authority of that Houfe in further lights would be turnfhed by the production filch a way, as being exercifed with effect, might bring of Mr. Davifon's calls account with Gen. Delaney. the offending individual before the public, to meet the SCOTCH CLERGY. punifhment due to his errors. He did not take up The LORD ADVOCATE for Scotland moved, this bufinefs under any opinion that it was intended that the Order for the committal of the Scotch by &Unifiers to prole& that perfon from lattice, but Clergy Bill thould be difcharged. The Bill, of which under the idea - that it was refolved to atlign him to he had given notice, to vett the powers of the Corn- Come other mode of profecution than that which the mifficners of Tythes in the Court of Exchequer, Houfe, by its own powers, had the means of putting would embrace the objet of the Bill which he now into effe&. This was his motive for interfering in wished to withdraw. The Order was accordingly the matter ; for he could nit perfuade himfelt to be- dircharged. lieve that any proccedin; could be fo effectual for the Th e 'T u rk e y Tobacco Bill was 'c id a krona tilde, and ordered end defigned, as that whtch the Houfealay its owapri• lope committed tomorrow. a r p brought up the Bill for veiling the Barrack Committeevileges, ihould ordain. His idea, therefore, was as the Mr. WICKHA era toPro of Papes, report of that Committee andthe charges it contained, and the Attendance of Perform com , an pe d l to e ! am d in uelino e upon Out t 1 ... had been laid before the Houle, the mon decotouk and Read a firtt, and ordered to let read a keond time to•mkirow. —. folemn mode of procedure was for that Houfe immedi- Adjoarued. - 7 2 - - - - 28 —coo Agairft it • . - - 28 Proxies - - - 8 .-36 Majority - 64 Adjourned at five o'clock this morning. HOUSE OF COMMONS. NORFOLK COMMITTEE. The following are the names of the Committee appointed by Ballot to try thi. merits of the Petition, complainlrg of an undue Eledion and Return fur the County of Norfolk : H. Baring, Ffq H. Farm'', Efq M. Wood, Efq IL Williams, Efq Lord V. Morpeth C' Adams, Efq T. W. Plummer, Efq J. Kingtton, Efq A. Atherley, Efq W. Praed, Efq C. C. Wettern, Efq 0. Williams, Efq R. T. St.:Wart, Efq G.H. Rofe, Efq Charles Dundas, Efq. PLYMOUTH ELECTION COMMITTEE. The following are the names on the Reduced Lift: J. F. Barham, Efq Hon. W. Hill H. Willoughby, Efq Lord Rancliffe W. Rolcoe, Efq Hon. W. Maule R. B. Robion, Efq J. Cripps, Efq E. Defbrow, Efq J. llrogden, Efq W. Cavendifh, Efq tiodfrey, Efq J. Calvert, Efq NOMINEES. W. Cartwright, Ffq J. Raine, Efq. 11011INISS. - _ Lord HOWICK gave notice. that on Tuefday next he fhould move for a call of the Houfe. His motive was to enfure a more regular and fell attendance of Gentlemen ; an object fo very much required, in confcquence of the number of Committees up on controverted elections, Ilia to be appointed. The SPEAKER announced to the Houfe,that in confcquence of the non-attendance of Mr William Gordon, the petitioning candidate for the city of Worcefter, and his cont . /Anent forfeiture of his recognizance, be had ordered the fame to be tarented iuto the Exchequer. Mr. SIMEON gave notice of his intention of fubmitting to the Houle a Bill to amend the Grenville Aft : he Itated, that the rea rm for calling the attention of the Houle to any meafure which might appear to make any alteration in that MI, was not from any defeel in the Ad. as far as iu imperative claufes went,but in confcquence of a molt fingular and extraordinary circumftance that occurred before the Coaamltteeon the Malden election. The Learned and Hon. Member was proceeding to Rate the nature of the circumftance, when be was called to order by the Speaker and the whole Houfe. He then fignined Lis intention of making the intended motion on Monday nett. Mr. Krxi NS WRIGHT brought up the minutes of the Pen rhyn Eleetion Committee, which were ordered to he printed. Mr. MELLISH ?relented a petition againft the kaft London Water Works. On the motion of Lord TEMPLE, the Houfe went into a Committee on the Ads relating to the 'rude to and from the Cape of Good Hope—en which Lord TEMPLE moved, that the Chairman he inftrueted to move the Houfe for leave to bring in a Bill, mithorizing his Ma jelly, for a limited time, to make Regulations refpecting the vette and commerce to and from the Cape of Good Hope. The Mo. lotion was agreed to, the Report receivi.d, and leave given to bring in the Bill. In a Committee on the Newfoundland Filbcry Mt of laft Section, Lord TEMPLE moved a Refolution, that the Bounties granted by the faid Aft be continued for a limited time. The Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Canada Worfted Yarn Export Bill was read a third time, and paffed. • • vrf i _ i i r