Star. — London, England, 1819-02-02 00:00:00

having for its object to regulate the „ cg s of the Election. As CO the expenses be ne by the candidates, it was evident that such re was intended to prevent any candidate, lives of obstinacy or resentment, to extend to the utmost period. He did not know Dean and Chapter possessed funds appli such purpose, nor was he acquainted with that imposed the expenses attending the upon the High Bailiff. He only requested Act might•be renewed for twelve months. :O WEN said it was incumbent upon the m pmvidu a proper place for Elections ; and ontrary to justice that the expenses should the candidate. He would ask the Honour atleman, whether the .doubt that was enter respecting funds wider the confrOul of the Id Chapter was not a sufficient reason upon moderate delay should be acceded ? If it w found that no such fliads existed, then he :d the expenses should be defrayed by the in -3 of Westminster. Under these circumstances ‘1 the Honourable Gentleman would not press !jog of the Bin. I.IIIDLEY observed, he thought it wouldbe , r the expengcs to fall on the inhabitants. It :d to him.that they should be'clefmyed by the rtes. WYNNE could not see any reason why the should be paid either by the candidates or di Bailiff. BOth acted in obedience to the and the High Bailiff would be liable to Ihe did not pay obedience to it. He thought, 'spenses were incurred for the benefit of flit Ited, there should be a general tax levied lout the City of Westminster for that purpose, that case could erect a permanent building business. _ _ _ BENT saki, that as candidates , for Westmin• ire brought forward against their Consent, the should be borne by the parties. DENMAN said, he himself felt the difficulty. - - - espect to the Bill, he confessed himself en - - morant of its pros isions, and he believed there nv much better informed than himself on the • There was one particular he must submit mention of the House : he was ignorant of the the subject, and it appeared to him quite in- Able, that, if the High Bailiff could recover his ises by an action at law, what reason existed for rthet Act on the subject? Hon. G. BENNET.—Why, because the Law 'only expire. DENMAN continued.—lf then the Law is to expire, that is the strongest argument to and not to proceed in a hasty manner - it be giving it the effect of an es post facto l aw. Hon. G. BENNET said, he merely proposed Itinuance of the Act for one year ; at did not . ny resemblance to an ex post facto law ; every .r, if he would refer .to the *stapite Book, inform himself of its nature. He did.not per ay cause for delay ; as to the Petitions to which n. Member had alluded, he believed he should. bled to give a satisfactory answer to the:nose& the more-confident, because.he had hid an in: , with one of the principalpetitioners. rd A. HAMILTON proposed, that instead of Drd Tuesd:ty," the Bill should be read a third' nr Friday next. < 11. SUMNER asked whether the Ron. Oen. would 'consent to the renewal - Of the until= of April, ISI9 ? . • Han. G. BENNET replied, that the. liontinr jentleman had selected rather an- unfortunate for its termination 4 he would, however, agree being litoited to the I.sth of May. • • . HUME expressed himself surprised at the ct of the Hon. Gentleman. -Upokothei occa- he was the first to institute inquiry, and zea• to contend against the course he had adopted; :hat was the present proceeding hut" getting the passed, and inquiring afterviards•?' • : 'le Bill ordered to be read i Alia dine to-morrow. • * ' BANlCYttiiiildTioNll6 r. S. WORTLEY presented a Petition from in Traders, Manufacturers, and Persons residing reds, stating, they conceived the present was not wenient season for the resumption of Cash Pay :s by the Bank of England ; that such a measure Id be prejudicial to •the trade of the country, t the ratet of exchan ge' against this country, and ing that its consideration might be postponed a future period. • Ir. TIERNEY wished to be • infortr-xl whether Petition was the result of a public meeting, be he had received a letter froM Leeds complain- that such a Petitioit'had been handed about ; and, as he understood Bankers were con. , :ed in the matter, it was easy to conceive that pns who had received accommodations might be ienced to sign such Petitions. He wished, as he ,:istood some other Petitions were to be present tha they Would be obtained at the present time, "ise he would examine whether they were not ci copies of each ether. 4. S. WOEITLtY said, the Petitioners ware per. of respectability, and the Bakers had no con. whatever in the business. h. 'fIERNEY thought the names of same of The' , :.ioners were similar to the Bankers of that City ; :aps the lion. Gentleman could inform him who rrsons were ? 'lr. S. WORTLEY replied, they are their Sons. I'IMNEY thanked the Hon. Gentleman for nmunLating more information than he expected. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. MALEEY BILL. 741 '. S. WCiRTLEY brought in a Bill to regulate Cutlery Trade.—Read a first time, and ordered be reai the second time on Wednesday next. GENERAL GOURGAUD. Mr. DOUGLAS, for the purpose of complaint, - hid to be informed of the particulars. of the Arrett Gontgaudlately in this 'country, um! the if his sudden expulsiOn to the Continent? The, al complained that he had been refused a hear before the Council as he had earnestly solicited ; ,1,1 that he had experienced the most cruel usage in t to his pavrs, Ste. Mr. cuvr. (Under Secretary of State) would not 2r into the minutes of the case, 3S it Would be .m it - 4; up their attention to little purpose, He would rcly assure the House, that no appeal had been it in the manner represented for a hearing before Council. Those who had been intrusted with the arrest, &e. were desired to afford the Foreigner every indulgence consistent with the nature of the Act of Parliament. . From the persons who had at- • tended on the'occisioo, he had received information that the person alluded to had never solicited for a hearing before the Council. He had only required to be brought before a Magistrate. Ills papers had been transmitted to him according to the address given by himself. It had been illiberally reported, that the seals of the papers had been broken open, and other unnecessary indignities exercised. He, however, could assure the House, that there was no truth in such an assertion. The whole progress of conveyance of those papers had been carefully traced, and the most satisfactory answers had been received. CoMmunications had been made flout Cuxhaven and other places, and.. the same satisfactory answers re ceived. It was fully ascertained, that the port-folio of the Foreigner had been delivered to himself per sonally, with the seals unopened. Mr. DOUGLAS wished to know if any improper freedom had been taken at the Foreign Office ? Mr. CLIVE knew of no impropriety—unless, for the better security, an additional cover to the papers 'could be construed into such an act. . This business was then dropped. OXFORD PETITION. ...the Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned debate respecting the Oxford Petition, having been read, on Mr.. Wynne's motion, Sir. A. PIGGOTT stated that the Petition having been printed, all must be acquainted with its nature; considering himself in the same situation as if he weie called noon to deliver a judicial - opinion, he should not hesitate to declare that he regarded it as an election Petition, for it complained of an-improper and corrupt interference in the return of a Member. This Petition was now in the possession of thefloiise, and the House had no discretion .whatever on the subject, but must act as the law required. The 10th .of his Majesty prescribed the mode to , be adopted on such occasions, ant from that mode it was impos sible to depart. To allow the form of the Petition to be altered, and to admit that it was represented with . vario intuito, would be a great evasion of that Act highly to be depreciated. He did not mean to deny to the House the power of punishing offenders and . vindicating its privileges, either by its own acts, or by instituting suits at law ; but the present Petition fell under a particular Act, according to the provi sions of which its merits must be tried. It would, therefore, be impossible for the House to agree with the presenemotion, which was, that the Petition lie. on the:table ;'-but should that motion be withdrawn. • as he trustedit would, then the regular or4er would be made, as usual in cases of Petitions complaining of undue returns. • • Mr. DEN MAN concurred in considering the pre low as an Election Petition. He had thought that it might have been allowed to be withdrawn, in order to be presented in • a different shape. He should have no objection, however, to withdraw the motion, that it lie on the :able. Mr. BANKES - conceived no doubt could be enter-1 tained of the present Petition being attEleelion Petition. The SPEAKER observed; that the ActOl - Parlia-' talent said, that when .an. Election PetitiOn had been presented, an order should .be Fade kix its consider tad& on some partrcular day, and thb Oarlies pro froni withdrawing : it. 'As no 2rider .of the kind had yet been made out, the PetitiOn Might still -be withdrawn, and 'anotlitti . .pt'egeiatel•ltefoze ;text Thursday. - • ' - • - • :•; ••• - Mr. WYNNE contended, tbat.,the• Petiti 4is an Election Petition hi paint of stibslince, for the facts -stated, if established, wouldA3rove the agency of the Noble Duke in effecting the return. He should be sorry to see it withdrawn•hroider to-bring another forward in its stead, -which:should be of a different nature, as the subject would. then be referred to a jurisdiction where witnesses would not be examined , upon oath. Mr. TENNYSON contended that the Petition was not an -Election Petition, but merely called on the House to vindicate its own privileges. The facts asset ted could not affect the return of the Honourable Member for Oxford, unless a connexion was proved between him and the Noble Duke,.so - as to shew that the latter .had been his Agent. He was convinced that the language of the Petition was so framed as to avoid bringing the return into question. If that was the intention of the Petitioners, to refer the Peti tion to a Select Committee would make it fall to the ground, as they would. not enter into.the recogni . zances required. He thought. it therefore desirable that it should be referred to a Committee of Privi leges. An Election Committee would not be bound tc make any Report; and in a case like the present, he thought that it was of importance that a Report should be produce,d. Mr. BATHURST concurred with what had ap peared to be the general sense of the HOuse. The Petition was clearly an Election Petition. If the facts asserted were proved, the Noble Duke must certainly be viewed in the light of an Agent, and if i it were shewn that the return had been obtained by bribery, the Select Committee would .report it void. As there appeared no doubt of the nature of the. P etition, the House had no other course to take than that determined by the Act, and the Petition must go to the tribunal fixed for its consideration. The question that the Petition lie on the table was then put from the Chair and negatived. Tile SPEAKER. then suggested the propriety of entering a Resolution upon the, Journali, beforere cording the decision of the House,; to state the mo tion which had been made, the adjournment of the, debate, and that it had appeared -to the House that the Petition was an Election Petition. Mr. BANKES immediately moved ,a Resolution to the effect that the Oxford Petition did,.appear to be a Petition complaining of an undue return for th e said City, which was agreed to ; and on a, second motion by the same Honourable Member, the Pet ition was ordered 'to be taken into consideration on the 9th of March nett. CADIZ OF HIS MAJESTY S PE.R3O)L . • On the Motion of the CHANCELLOR or tbodens uusk, the second reading of the Bill providing for the care of his Majesty's person , was fixed foe next Thursday. CONIMITTIS OF SUPPLI% The CHANCELLOK• of the EXCHEQUER moved, that the House resolve itself into a comMit tee of Supply.:—Agyeed to. . - . um moved that the Arm), and Navy Estimate', and the Exchequer Bills, be referred: to the said Com mittee, which was also agreed to.—The House then resoled itself into a Committee of Supply. • NAVY ESTIMATES. Sir GEORGE WAR'RENDER should Only state, in moving the Estimates for the - Navy, that the num ber of seamen would be the.same as last year; yet a considerable saving had taken place in that branch of the public expenditure ; and that saving had been ef fected by placing the Whole of the naval force kept up in a state of acti:ity, ik , hich supplied the defi ciency of numbers, and rendered their increaseunne cessary. He then moved that a force not exceeding 20,000 men, including 6,000 marines, he employed in his Majesty's sea service for thirteen lunar months; commencing on the Ist of January, 1819. Mr. ROBA wrs did not mean to oppose the Reso lution, but should take this opportunity of inquiring whether any measure was in contemplation to dirni • nish if not to remove altogether the evils of impress ment? He considered the present period most pro pitious for such an improvement. Sir G. WARRENDER admitted that the question was one of great importance, but it also wits one on which the Honourable Member could not expect him to give any other answer, than that it was a poineon which Government were willing to d o all in their power, but without encouraging the . least expecta. don that it was possible to dispense with an ancient system, the benefits of which sufficiently overba lanced its evils. Effective measures, however, had been taken to ameliorate, the condition of the, sailors, and among the rest- a registry of seamen had been adopted, which gave the means of easily assembling a better kind of force than formerly. He then pro posed the following grants, which wereagreed to: For wages for 20,000 men for a year t 'at £2. 3s. 6d. a month per man - £560,500 . . For victualling the said force for the same period, at # 2,-3s. 44. a month per•man • - - 520,000 For clothing and wear and tear, and £91,000 for ord sauce on board the ships kept on actual service ' 532,000 ARMY ISTIMA;ES. Lord PALMERSTON intended to apply at pre. sent for only one million on account of. the Army Estimates, the whole of which would probably be found not much to exceed, if they did at . all, the suns of three millions. He then proposed a grant of £1,000,000 on account, - for defraying the charge of the land service at home and abroad, with the excep tions of the regiments serving. inthe. Mediterranean and the East Indies. Mr. CALCRAFT would not oppose the grant, but would be glad to know how the Noble Lord had proceeded when his vote was exhausted, which must have been on the 4 24th . of Deoember last; and how he had been enabled to continue to-pay the Army with out the aid of Parliament? The vote ended on' the 25th of December, 1818, and we Were now in Fe bruary, 1819 ; so that more than a month had elap sed since the last grant must have become exhausted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose .to answer the lion. Gentleman, as his question applied to every lathes branch of the public service, as well as to the payment of the Artily._ Although the year for which the grant had been made had expired, yet the' Wholeof i the money had not then beentxrended; -and as lung as any of the sums granted, _whether for . A. Army, the Navy,-or -the Ordnance .orarry o th er Department, were .not entirely.applied, the Eietu- tire Government took upoNitsilf to apply; them to 'the Paiticular services for wirich they hattbeen voted, supplies had been obtained. In fact, post of the services were • patch nat. prospectively, but' re: trospec tively, to thatAtalse end of,tbelating . tliereefere various surplusses, applicable to their res pective partrhents. Thtofie Grant for 1818 had ctsrismenr ced in December', but fiad-not begun to be issued till the middle of February, He could see no irregula rity in the course pursued. The Grant was then agreed to. ' EXCHEQUER BIL LS . AND THE BANK. The CHANCEL LOR ofihe EXCHEQUER moved that a sum not exceeding 21,9 4 44,3004 be granted to his Majesty, to.pay off and discharge ahe Exchequer' Bills issued under two Acts for the last Parliament, au thorising the emiss i on 0f11,000,0001. and 34.,600,0001: in Exchequerflills. • Mr. GRENFELL should seize this opportunity of inquring whether th e Right .. .Hon. Gentleman had 'entered into.any arrangement with the Bank respect ing the loan of three millions without interest, made by the Bank in former years to the Government, in consideration of the balances of public money which remained in their hands. This was a fact known by all. He believed that that arrangement had ceased last April, so that, instead of deriving any advantage from the accumulation of public money in the hands of the Bank, the country paid to that establishment four per cent. interest on those three millions, or 120,0001. per annum, whilst the Bank held an enor "nous mass of public property, totally unproductive to the public, but not so to its holders! He should take another occasion of calling the attention of the JEfouse to so important a subject, unless the Right Ho nourable Gentleman should he able to state that some arrangement was now negotiating between the Bank and the Government, to remove so just a ground of Complaint. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not thought'it necessary to enter into an explanation on this point, as the period when the transactions of the Government with the Bank were to come before, the. House were so. close at hand. • • With,respect to the three millions advanced by . the Bank,,,and coati nued since the last April by Act .of:raylialpent: at four and a half per ceat.,intereit, aniSahe balances of pUblic money,• both•had.been a subject of _discussion Iretween his -Majesty) .Cicaernment. 20 . . the Bank. Prepositions•had been made forlapplykstg the whole f - the latter to the public seririees.B4o94.balanc'e g themselves had. been, greatly alitnittishscl ; by the re duction of theamblie expenditure and ,othge . ..c:tose.:,l They did net' amount last year to oqrealnin pne-. half *hat they .had been at p eriods to;Vhich the rHonougablcOeudegian.to ahe thße naillions .in : question, ,no..ittictest—bad.yet.been, paid miwn therm and whether some arrangement could-be made of ayetrospective nature, .remained to be.aa .-certtined: He.should now repeat the, austver whjelr. he-had.givan to the Henciurable Gentleiaranato.liad of 'the repayment of tbs'eipit jians.dial.to the Bank, as that answer sit!iiiett:ndr tn :hive beentOrtectly linderStood in . siorip Orthe.ptlblit ' punts. What 1 .s'o- '— 14 ad " stared was,• 'eight milliOta See lad..already been pal's;' a %ACP , passed., a dings ty i, or ne by se cure vi as To otives )e poll to :!:e Dea .! to such to imv that A Gott upon ie t h e Act id .l'Cltti to pill le .; contra • r 94 the ;entlem • r espec tad Cli a rood t be fot recd the ...t.as of r d the rt . .1.1111 ler the 3 :cd to to iJates. ift Cs WI sho is ;ligb Ba ▪ 7*5 sync, , e xpent d „ s c.ted, !t• t It in that i 113 busin le Ir. BEN' ▪ were br‘: , s es shoe to h. DEN it ' respeci T, ignOra of few int ▪ ! c cc. Tl: • 1 :e attent to on the s n • rases by C. turthet se :l e Hon. shortly V dr. DEN ▪ to es .c, and re Li be gi to The Hon. continua to any re! • J&Jor, a intbr. It se ay cJ it lion. ME Ye el.tbled I C the ~ .ew wit L A. r- word it on Fr' w :or. it. %VAL r; I.: of Le 113 z .:5 beinv 11l ida of he !.; to c what vu I T pass r he Bill ▪ Mr. S. I ..sin Tr ▪ Leeds, e c7invenic .n:s by oald be ✓ ct the aying t e ail, a fiii TI: 6 is Petiti it use he 1 that s te:y ; a J : .r.ed in .4ns itiencet LI scot: , that I .vise •3ci COi S. r wha Mr. T r. 1 .1 S The Call re ?T-.1 I 'hed • ;:t ,g 11.1 thi •••pct Mr. 'ter i kit 'b adt i Co 1 remained, but provision had been made for those by Parliament on the revenue of the year. Mr. GRENFELL expressed his satisraction at the intelligence given by the Right Ho:i. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had always 'expressed his readiness to- take up the -subject of the balances of public numoy. but Isecould not do it without the concurrence of the liaak, s‘ho, on the present occasion, he was happy to be able fo state, bad volunteered their aid. Mr. GIitNFELL was glad that his object bad been attained any how. Mr. PETER `•1OORE repeated his former argu plint, that the three millions lent by the Bank with out interest were taken-out of the public money, since they were lent on condition that the balances ef money, amounting to no less than eleven millions, "should lie left in the hands of the Bank. • The Chan- cellor of the Exchequer had now shewn what use could be made of those balances. Ile had sheivn that what was deficient in one department was paid out of the Surplus of another-4N°, 7[o, from . •the *CharceTor of the Exchequer and' various pads .qf the HOiirej?—But i►istead of issuing five minibus for the service of 'the Armt•, achy did he net take them from those 'balances ? He was however, that his Majesty's Exchequer seemed to have at last come to their senses,. and to have commenced to make a proper and economical tre of the grants made by the Howe, alwayg liberally, and dfter, pi - ofusely. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER wished to correct a misapprehension which die Ho nourable Gentleman seemed to have made. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had never said that the surplus of one department had been applied to the service - of anoth"r. However proper or economical such a plan might be, •it would not be authorised, and he shoilld - Aerefore consider it t breach of his duty. All that the . Executive Government had con sidered itself at liberty to do, was to apply any part of the sums granted by Parliament for any service, and which might remain tinexhalistcd, to that parti cular service, beyond the time for which it had been voted.—The Resolution was then agreed to. The House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be brought up tO-morrow. - • FEILIttI4 ♦VI ]ILNAOEtIEs. Mr. LAWSON, pursuant to his notice, rose to call the attention of the House to the state of the Jaw as it respected wild animals reclaimed from their original barbarism and natural ferocity—(A laugh). He was aware that he might be exposing himself to some degree of ridicule by leading the Flouse into 'such a discussion. There were Honourable Gentle. men on the other side of the House, whom, however, he did nct then see in their places, who, from their manner cf treating his observations on a recent occa sion, might perhaps alledge that he had undertaken this subject from a fellow feeling, being himself of the ferine species. It was very far from his wish, he could assure them, to increase the number of penal enactrpents, or add to the severity of a code, against which the sentiments of the public were now so loudly proelaimed. He had not been hunting through the volumes of our erimhal jurisprudence for the pur pose either of•tilling up chasms, or lopping off exu berances.. Hehad. been induced to submit his pre sent proposition, not by any_ impatience to become a legislator, but because he thought the law de-• fective .in this' particalar case. At a late trial during the last -Assizes-at -Hertford, a Man was in dicted for stealinga number of tame ferrets (a laugh). Ihg,Ltiry : fpund,isim Gttlty-; but the case being re forredtcObe:Judges, who were just equal in number but who: hid not the advantage of being 'rtarved - into unanimity, they unanimously agreed, that ferrets being animals - fens natty te, • no property .could be held in them, and that the stealing of them was not . .pu.nishable.. Those Hon. Members. who lived much in the country, and were conversant with rural economy; innsile . well acquainted' with the extreme viefUltiess - of this animal rn the destruction of that noxious, Odious, and disgusting teptile, the ra..:—(A laugh.)—lt bad been said by the Poet, that all things wete created for the use and delight of man, and it was well known that the rat itself, base and ferocious as it 'Was, might be rendered tame, and be so domes ticated as to rum f're»i one side of 11th house to the other with Mc tetmnci dorility(Hear, tad Ihtighter.)— The animals in Polito's Menagerie were also, in his opinion, deserving of legal protection, though by no means so useful as the ferret—(Hear, hear.) — They served, however, as practical illustrations of natural history to the young of the rising generation of both sexes. To steal a lion, at present—an act of which he certainly did not recollect any. instance— (A laugh), was no larceny, and yet it would be a libel on that noble beast to say that it was of a base cha racter. lie proposed, therefore, to include in his Bill all animals reclaimed from their savage nature, and subjected to the use of man. Badgers and mon keys had their useful qualities, and if they themselves were not often stolen, it could not. be denied in this age of fePpery, that many Stole thcir faces, .anticks, and gestures. His object would be, to punish the offence of. stealing ; them by seven years transporta tion, Or by whipping, at the discretion of the Ses. ;ions. The receivers of them when stolen, should, he thidght, be subject to the same, not . a greater pu• Aliment, as was' sometimes the ptictice in other catg • With regard to their . hecOminrg nuisances, lie: considered the law. to be quite effectual upon anal should auk, therefore, „intro duce any . ,,new . with reference to it.-- He dial not 'Coast of Possessing any squeamish or iffibrbid iensbility, but he coin not sec property of thii•kind in a diffeitnt state with respect to its pro tection by the law.from any other, and he knew that the n miters of it ,as well. as their.families depended on its security t wil h outheing antionsao see that pro teCtion'extended.to them. He moved, therefore„ fir koave•t4ttstii4g in sr Bill'for the purposta he lad - • . it aity-ufentiened. ••: • - .. . . . ;....mThe ATIVItI4EYAGENERAL.aftersonIe pitie, seconded .thtmotiop, ip. order,to bring . the subject .. • . .fpirly,:hefgre the liouse. . . . " • The Galter7Was then clearqd; bat the motion was nekltified without i divistOn:* - - ......04. ogr remhdtnlasione•Mr.,LAioiilitints nn Eli lip, SAO:Mils. Anktis..l%Lutiou on 44 iNbject oi tlie:Trialby 4tutte. .. - - - Ni'. p3iponed his . melloi!rclative to the C ame Lawni 41011tVeti ti I oglionow. . • • . , ..Illotietrwit then g iven by the,Arrimry-gattattah so( kis . J o . itiltA . Zt Twestfdt ,c'e.k.‘ l ,llt, to move for leAvz to bring in i BM to ilipea thli braixti . vt the 11;innItnt Lai.. - - -A.V 91 :..41 1( , : . : E t t i1 W ...1 tqlir Alt tif tivaimling the anise., gut * um u..,...y OVA, the Surtetn Lays within which 11%ctica Pc- AithilAtictitiCtit titscuted, would expire. -.Ad' ------ ' • .... 11' :1 V• llt t: r .:* . „al F' ,