Star. — London, England, 1819-06-15 00:00:00

measure explained the time of the delay ill l ing this statement. The Right Hon. Gentle., had addressed to him a letter on Wednesday, he (Mr. Hume) who had been absent from and engaged in an Election Committee, did ,eceire till a late hour on Thursday. When he red that letter, he had not seen the Report of ; peach in the Paper in question, but having not I n in anger, but stated his real sentiments, he t recollection pretty nearly of what he had said, ia d no hesitation in putting it to paper, as he ttereu no one sentiment respecting the Right Gentleman which he should be ashamed to re- He at the same time informed the Right Ho tole Gentleman, that he had not seen the Times. Paper was sent him by the Right Hon. Gentle , and as he (Mr. Hume) was anxious not to lose ,ment, though he was then busy at the Camel- Election Committee, he took care that the Paper LI be sent after him thither. On casting his eye :he Paper in question, he had no hesitation in tering it a calumnious misrepresentation. He n tait, in a former part of his speech, as Gen near him well knew, cast his eyes round, and :ej that the Member for Liverpool was not in his Übe had seen the Right lion. Gentleman at ire. he should have uttered stronger expressions he actually did, being at that time irritated by i pressions which the Right Hon. Gentlemen had reparted to have used respecting the puny say as he termed them, which he (Mr. Hume) had iniends!d. He then addressed a note to the ir Of the Times, informing him that he had ly calumniated the Right Hon. Gentleman un is and requiring him to make an apology ;hlic as the calumny itself. The Editor of the !;, in reply, addressed him a letter couched in trorgest terms of regret (read !) and expressed,a to wait on him with an explanation of the error. gr. Hume) had thought fit to decline receiving but sent him in return a copy of what he had le tying him to make what apology the nature lc cave required. This note the Editor of the !s could not have received till Sunday, so that lelay which the Right Honourable Gentleman miniadverted on was in some measure explained. Lime then read the note which he had received the Ditor of the Times, as follows " Times Office, Sunday, 3 o'clock. The Editor of The Times begs to express his warm acknow— : to Mr. Hume for the courtesy of his communication, ill 1 - .41 still deeper obligation if Mr. Hume will have the nuke known to Mr. Canning, either privately, or in louse, the Editor's regret that the Times Journal has been tee vehicle of a false statement, The Editor does not at it I louse, except occasionally ; and is therefore compelled z.e implicit confidence in the honour and fidelity of the rim.: employed to take Reports of the Parliamentary Dia n.. Hitherta he has had no seeiour reaion to repent that so contidel; and in the present instance, which he sin. I =ems, he is convinced that the offence originated in and not in any wilful or wanton perversion of Mr. expressions. Toe Editor is so anxious to stand right in aaian of Mr. Hume and of Mr. Canning, that he will be • to wait on Mr. Hume to-morrow monling, at any hour ma, be convenient, when he will bring with him the Leman who reported the Speech in question. The Editor apologize for not having sent an earlier answer, but he was ,f town on Saturday, and did not return till two o'clock lay. Would it be giving Mr. Hume too much trouble, to by the bearer a slight sketch of what he did Say, which is inserted in the correction of to-eight." rr. Hume continued to say, that there was not an ridual in the House with whom he was more ;ous to keep on good terms than the Right Hon. airman. The course of their business brought In frequently tegeher, and he was persuaded that could better do their duty by behaving towards another with propriety and civility-( Hear, hear.) am the earnest manner in which the Editor of The .imes had exptessed his regret at the misrepresenta tion, and from a knowledge, as far as he had exa ined them, that the Reports of that Paper were in general very fair, he was the more ready to believe the declaration, that the misrepresentation did not mite from any wilful or malignant disposition. He . himself bound to make these observations, be .ause, if he had acceded to the wish of the Editor of The Times, and had accompanied him to Mr. Can •-,g, the impression which the Right Hon. Gentle- In seemed to entertain of the malignity of the re ;al might be done away.—(Murmurs of " No.") He that it was due to the Editor of The Times to mention the circumstances which he had stated, as had perhaps deprived him of the opportunity of laking such an apology as would have been satis -I:tory to the Right Hon. Gentleman. On the whole, was inclined to the belief that the misrepresenta :a must have originated in a mistake. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that the statement of is Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Canning) must axe satisfied the House that the misrepresentation mid not have been accidental —(Hear, hear),—and begged leave to mention to the House another in stance of the gross calumnies circulated through the one paper. His speech, on (motion of an Honour ible Gentleman (Mr. Bennett) respecting Captain tanchett, bad been grossly misrepresented in the tone paper, and he would shew the House the use which was made of these misrepresentations. He had received that morning a letter from Canterbury, which informed him that the political party in op po ,lion to him in that city was still convinced of the aaocenee of Captain Hanchett (though the Honour- Gentleman who brought forward his case was !ow convinced that he was guilty), and that this con viction was kept alive by the extracts printed from ICile Times newspaper. He thought the present a case !:‘, which the House ought to assert its authority. Mr. WYNN said there was but one course for the II cease to take—to order the attendance of the Pub ‘':.er at the Bar. The permission, or rather the 7 nuivance, wider which an account of what passed the House was communicated to the country, was as important benefit to the public, but it was only a i.eneat so long as it was not made an engine to gratify', private malignity— ( Hear, hear).—ln the case before them he could not see how the misrepresentation -.oul l have originated in mistake. The privileges of foe House were in this instance violated in more than Ile respect. Any publication of what passed in the House was a breach of its privileges; but the House had wisely connived at the breach of its privilege, if Was not abused. In the present instance, the writer had been guilty of a breach of privilege towards the honourable Gentleman, whose speech the publica tion professed to represent, and towards the Right Honourable Gentleman 4,gaiest whom the observa tions are directed—he shotad move that the Pub lisher be called to the Bar. co w ftleaS rec tifying ga n had a w hich he ( to wn, and Do r r eceive mc cived th his speech i oken in a hi d a r ecol v id had In utters( g oo , Gent] It , He put-able The Paper faan, and mo ment, Electi ;hould be s over the con,iderinE ta'c tlemer nea t egreved tl lace 1111 t hat time, than he lc express reps as he F..litor of gr ossly cal eer his nal ; c public a Ti r au„ in the stror.g , iiish to w. (Nlr. 1: hint, but leAri cf the cas Times cou the delay had anima Mt. I I o me .c,an the I 111,, Ed 1d.7111.2_ t. to t.e Houit. t t at?tut , •t ra CIA lit 6: '.arose:: r....i)nu bo cc v 7,3 I tmel a 1:4 ac t,trtnw m.ti Gxicnian tie .o apoll -... of tow Say. !t;a7l by t crii!iltt but H cditridua Gentlem them {re they cou one anotl From dr Times hi tion, ant mined ti general the decl arise fro felt hire cause, if The Tir rag, tl man see port mi felt that mentior he had making irtory i.e was tta mu Mr. Lis 16E have sa :oald n beg :'ante • :ime p 'cjle Hanch, nine p 7i:tich • mceive Thich siont G tow ci victior 'l' whi Mr. ousc .'he r !mail nthe ;in im i.thefi ?rival them tre F mte r nous had i it Iva kW lion( tioa lion( tit ns tulle The %TEARER. having tererred to the Paper which had been put in, moved that Charles Bell do attend at the. Bar of the House tomorrow. Mr. WYNN said, that a question occurred, whe ther it would be proper for the House to resolve, in the first instance, that the publication was a breach of its privileges, and then to call on the Publisher to attend ; or to procure his attendance, and an acknow ledgment of the publication, in the first place, and then to come to Resolutions as to the nature of it ? The SPEAKER said, that in 1805 an instance had occurred, in which the Publisher of a Paper had been called to the Bar. He was asked whether he was Editor of the Paper in question ? and he was then ordered to withdraw, while the House deliberated on the nature of the publication. But there was this difference between that and the present case, that the article in that instance complained of, was a para graph containing a comment on a vote of the House; in the present instance, the publication was, on the face of it, a breach of privilege. The question being put, that Charles Bell (the Printer and Publisher of The Times) be called te the BarL- Mr. WYNN suggested, that the Editor should also be ordered to attend. Mr. LITTLETON approved of the motion, as he had no doubt the misrepresentation was conceived in malignity. The SPEAKER—That when a Person was order ed to attend the House by name, the Officers of the House served the order of the House on him ; but if, according to the suggestion of the Honourable Mem• ber (Mr. Wynn), the Editor of. the Paper were ordered to attend, the Officers of the House would be in a difficulty as to the person upon whom they should serve the order. It would, therefore, perhaps be best, first to order the Printer to attend, and to ascertain who the Editor was, unless any Gentleman could state to the House the name of the Editor. Mr. WYNN agreed, that it would be advisable to follow the course which the Speaker had pointed out. Mr. LITTLETON oberved, that the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had stated that he had had communication with the Editor of the The Times : perhaps he could inform the House what his name was•-{Crier of u No I") Mr. HUME said, that the ndte he had received was dated a Times Office," and purported to be orris ten by the Editor of The Times, but had no signature. Lord C ASTLEREAGH said, that the House should first determine on the nature of the publication, which was one of the grossest breaches of the privileges of the House. Mr. WYNN said the Resolution declaratory of the sense of the I louse respecting the publication, should be framed with due consideration, as there was this peculiarity in .it, thdt it was a misrepresentation of the speech of one Member, and grossly libellous on another Member. Lord CASTLEREAGH agreed that the Resolu tion should be postponed till the Printer was called to the Bar.—The question having been put, Mr. BROUGHAM said there could be but one opinion among those who had heard the clear state ment of the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Can ning), that the publication complained of was a breach of the privileges of the House. He did not rise to offer any observations on what must have been so universally felt; but he could not help pointing out what would be the consequence of their proceed ing further than they had already done. If they called the Publisher to the Bar, the matter could not stop there. He would not say that this was an abso lute argument against proceeding, nay he knew some would cletive from it a further corroboration of the reasons for the proceeding. This was not the only Newspaper in which the most malignant and pal pable breaches of the privileges of the House occur red. He alluded not to what might be termed a technical breach of privilege, the reporting of their proceedings, which no mare would desire to take away, and from which they and the Constitution, and no part of it more than the Executive Govern ment, derived strength and support, but to offences such as that now brought before the House, the grossest misrepresentations arising from the most culpable negligence, or the most malignant private intentions. there were other gross breaches of the privileges of the House, in comments containing the most malignant, the most. wilfully false assertions respecting Members, not in a bungling manner put Into the mouth of an Honourable Member, but coming from the Publisher himself, the meaning of which could not for one moment be mistaken. To give instances of this would be not only an irksome, but an endless task. It was only the last time but one that a case of this kind had been brought under the attention of the House, when, in a speech given to a Noble Member for Yorkshire, something was at tributed to him which he had not said, and which he would have been the last man in the country to say, containing reflections on him (Mr. Brougham) under which, if it had been uttered, it would have been impossible for him to have sat quietly—(Hear, hear). This wilful and malignant mis-statement attributing to a Noble Member what he was incapable of saying, for the purpose of casting reproach on another Mein: ber, was heightened by comments founded on the falsehood. And what rendered the transaction more glaring was that in their report of the transaction a correct account was inserted, while afterwards, find-1 ing a false one better suited to their purpose, they gave this false account as a foundation for their com ment; This case he had thought fit to mention in the House, as the Noble Member for Yorkshire had given an explanation as satisfactory as that which the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had just given., There the matter dropped, the House wisely deter mining to take no further step. He would explain why he thought the House had done wisely. Other Gentlemen who had the same injustice practised to., wards them, would, if any further proceeding hivi been taken, have been called on to make similar complaints, because, though while no one chose to call for punishment on their misrepresentations, no stigma could attach to any Member who poised ever in silence those which affected himself, yet when a practice was created of noticing these offences, a Member would feel a neglect of , a misrepresentation, as a confession of its justice. He had been just in formed of a gross case of mistatement directed against the Hon, Member . for Southwark, calculated not merely to interrupt his good understanding with his constituents, but to expose himself to popular violence 3 What he apprehended was ) that in consequence of isy farthei proceoo4 in this aStit a numarons list Of similar offence" *gilt be presented to the notice of the House (he meant past offences, for against the 'future the individuals might take warning), and that the result would be a material impediment to that accurate communication to the Public of their pro ceedings, which was attended with so niany benefits. He should not opposethe Motion, if it were put; but he suggested whether, after an ampler warning than he had given on a former occasion, the Right Honour able Gentleman might not stay further proceedings,l Without a probability that he would repent his fork bearance. In the mean time, whether his suggestion were acceded to or no, he should have the satisfac tion of having given this further warning that the breaches of the privilege of the Ilouse were not conal fined to reports. Mr. CANNING said, that as the Honourable and Learned Gentleman (nr. Brougham) had called on, him for an opinion, he tleemed it necessary to say a few words. When he had put the Paper into the ' hands of the Clerk, he 1123 stated his determination to interfere no further in the matter. The step which he had felt himself compelled to take was a painful one ; it was not calculated to gratify any personal feeling, as all the satisfaction he could wish had been given him in the explanation of the Honourable Gen tleman (Mr. Hume.) In laying the Paper before the House, he had felt indeed, that for the general good, he was making himself the object of a discussion, which no man would wish to bring down on his whole public conduct. The motives which induced him to bring the subject under the notice of the House, also persuaded him to abstain from any further interfe rence in its deliberations—(bear.) Mr. W. WARD said that the course which his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham) re commended would lay the House open to endless at tacks. His Honourable and Learned Friend had mentioned a similar attack which had been made on himself, and had pronounced that the House had ac ted wisely in taking no step en the subject. When they saw what had now happened they should be rather inclined to disagree with that commendation —Hear, hear) —he should, if he might venture to use the word, say 'hat the House had acted unwisely, for they now were assailed by a repetition of the offence--(Hear.)—He could not see how they could let this offence pass without some punishment more or less severe, unless they chose to say, that they would not notice any attack, for in the utmost license of malignity and. falsehood the press could not be guilty of a grosser abuse of the indulgence of the House. With whatever favour they might regard that usage, which though forbidden by their Orders, had become almost essential to the practical working of the Constitution, they could not suffer this gross perversion to go unchecked, without suspending over their heads a power greater than their own, and making the daily press the arbitrary masters of their characters. The question being put, that C. Bell, Publisher of The Times Newspaper, do attend the Bar of this House to-morrow (this day), it was carried without a division. RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS. Mr. PEEL moved the third reading of the Bank Cash Resumption Payment Bill. Lord ALTHORP expressed a hope that the House would makc some arrangements, in order that he might be able to bring on his motion for this evening. After a short conversation, in which Mr. COURTE NAY, Mr.BROUGHAM, Lord CASTLEREAGH, and Al derman WAITHMAN made a few observations re specting the arrangement of the business of the night, the motion was put that the Bank of England Cash Payments Bill be read a third time; upon which Mr. MANNING rose, in order to move that a new clause be added to the Bill. He was much surprised, lie observed, to find that amongst all that had been said upon the subject of resuming Cash Payments, there was not one word about repayment to the Bank —(Hear). When the House had thought proper to tie down the Bank, he thought that it was but just at the same time to give the Bank the power of meeting the demand for Cash Payments by repaying the debt which was due to it. He had worded his motion in such a manner as to be favourable to his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The object of his clause was, that the sum of five millions due to the Bank should be repaid to it by monthly in stalments of £500,000, the first payment of which to commence from the 15th of July. There had been last year an agreement to pay the Bank the sums of six million and three million, out of which only five million, however, had been paid. The Honourable Member said that he did not mean the statement. which he had made as a reproach to his Majesty's Government; and concluded by reading his motion, the substance of which has been already mentioned. Lord CASTLEREAGH expressed a wish that the Hon. Member would suffer certain other clauses to precede the proposed amendment. The SPEAKER observed that it was a Matter of Indifference, in the present state of the Bill, which of the clauses should be offered first. Mr. ELLICE said, that he would propose as a clause, that after the Ist of May, 1821, at which time the Bank is, according to the Bill as it then stood, obliged to pay in gold of standard fineness at the established Miut price of £S. Ps. 100. per oz. the Bank might be allowed to pay for any of their Notes in the lawful current coin of the realm. If there should be a great excess of specie, as he hoped there would be, when matters were for some time allowed to return to their mote regular state, the Bank might wish to withdraw its one and two pound Notes from circulation. The object of his clause, would be to enable them to do so. Before he sat down, he thought it better to state, that he wished that the clause which he proposed should be intro• duced at the 9th clause of the Bill as it then stood. Mr. PEEL expressed his satisfaction that the prin ciples of the Bill met with so little opposition at the present stage of it. He had felt confident, he said, that the alarm which was expressed at the time when the Bill was introduced, would, before long, altoge ther subside. The Honourable Member then pro ceeded to make a few observations in opposition to certain clauses, to propose which an intention had been expressed, on the ground that these clauses would have the effect. of reducing the country to the state of 1816, and might lead to a supposition that the House was not in earnest respecting the resump tion of. Cash Payments. Mr. DENNISON said, that he had the honour of first vet. i • . . . . gisssittin 797 against the Bank Re* striction Act. In his humble opinion, altho.i b li he differed from most of the Bank Directors in political sentiments, they had, daring a long.period, contuct ed themselves with moderation, honour, and fidelity. —(.Hear, hear, hear.) La:k.Ve was given to bring np the Clause proposed by Mi. Etatcc, which was afterwards toad a third time and added to the Bill by way of rider. Mr. MANNING then stated the abject of the Clause proposed by him again, upon which The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER op- posed the clause, on the ground that it might bring great discredit and inconvenience upon the Public; if they should enter into an engagement, for which there was not any necessity, and should not aftir-- wards discharge it precisely. He admitted that such a monthly payment if it could be effected, would be most convenient. His wishes were that such a re. payment would take place as circumstances would admit of, but he was unwilling to enter into an en gagement which he might not have the means of ful filling—(Hear, hear.) Mr. ELLICE thought that what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said afforded another reason for bind, ing the Government to the precise time and manner of discharging the debt due to the Bank. Therebad been, he said,- an agreement last year to pay the Bank nine millions, but that was not done; If it had been done, there Would not have been many of the inconveniencies which afterwards gave grounds for complaints against the Bank. If he were a Bank Di rector, he.would rather have the security of the Pub.: lic than of the Right Hon. Gentlemau—(Hear, and a laugh on the Opposition side.) Mr. PRIMROSE thought, that if the House were • propared to carry the suggestion of the Committee • respecting the debt due to the Bank, into execution, they ought to he prepared td carry it into effect by the time when the Bank would be prepared to carry . . its duty into execution. Although it - might he diffi cult to pa the particular sum specified by each par ticular raoffl.h, yet he thought, that there ought to be a certainty of re-payment to the Bank by the time when they would. commence their operations: Mr. HUSKISSON said, that as there would bend other appropriation of the five millions, there could not_ be any doubt of 43 security, as a repayment td the Bank. He would not repeat the inconveniences attending a repayment by monthly instalments, but was glad to hear from his Right Hon. Friend, that it was his wish to pay the five millions as equally ai possible. He denied that there had been anv pro mise of payment by monthly instalments on the part of the Committee. In the present year the supply was quite independent of Exchequer Bills, except td the aniount of about £BOO,OOO. If the sum to be paid to the Bank. was only four millions In place of • five millions, he did not see how it could be reduced to any inconvenience by the measure, as it stood at the present. Mr. MANNING Again explained the grounds upod which he proposed the clause: The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said; there was no wish on the part of Government to throw the smallest embarrassment in the way of the Bank. He felt convinced that they were actuated by the most sincere desire to recur to the ancient stand; aril, but the repayment of five millions in the way alluded to, had no connection with the present Bill: It was already voted by Parliament: This, however, was not the time for introducing the clause proposed. The proper opportunity would occur when the Apz propriation Act was brought in. Mr. MANNING then withdrew the clause, Mr. ELLICE said, that though he approved of the principle of the Bill, he did not like the intermediate steps of it. His first objection was against the ed.; mission, that the standard of the currency was de: preciated to a specific degrees He should, therefore, propose that the clauses five and six be left out. Mr. PEEL opposed the motion. He thought it highly desirable that the clauses proposed to be left out should be retained. It was by that part of the Bill the Bank would-be bound to make preparation for the resumption of Cash Payments. These clauses made no change in the legal standard, nor did they recognise the opinion that any alteratioh .took place • in it. To state that the currency was depreciated was quitea different thing. Upon this point he begged leave to remind the Honourable Gentleman (Mr: Ellice) that the Bank expressed a willingness to pay their notes in bullion at the price mentioned in the last foreign letters. This would be a direct recogni; tion of the depreciation. lie should feel no alarm if the Bank were to increase their issues to-morrow, . for he had no doubt that they would make the ne-* cessary preparations for that event at £4. Is, in the first instance, and afterwards at £3. 19s. 10Id. Mr. PIERSE supported the Amendment proposed. He thought it very hard that the Bank should be obliged to pay their notes in bullion at a fixed rate, when so many circumstances might occur before the proposed period to affect the exchanges and the price of gold. They saw the effect lately produced in this way by foreign loans, and there was a rumour at ,present, that Russia would want a loan to a large amount, for-which a high rate of interest was to be offered. The provision in the Bill was very different to that of the Bank, because it 'mould oblige them to pay in bullioa ae a fixed rate, 'whatever the state of the exchanges might be. Lord CASTLEREAGH saw no occasion for any alarm in the state of the Exchanges at present. With respect to the Russian Loan alluded to, it was a ru a mour quite destitute of foundation: The graduated scale proposed in the Bill was not adopted from any distrust its the Batik: Mr. GRENFELL said, that what had fallen from the Honourable Director (Ma, Pierse), was one of the best arguments for the Bill. Mr. J. P. GRANT expressed his dissent from the graduated scale proposed in' the present measure.— He should prefer the appointMent of an earlier pea fiod, for•teturning to Cash Payments at the legal Mint standards • Mft.CALLAGHAN supported the amendment. Mr. ELLICE said, he was no party to the proposal for paying in specie at the rate of the foreign markets. He was not convinced by the observations of the Ho nourable Gentleman) AMr. Peel) that a proposal for resunting'eash Payments at £4..15. was not an sea kuowledgment of a depreciated currency. Hai would therefore divide the House upon the proposed amendment. Mr. FEEL explained: The Honourable angled t i ) 1 t ' 1 t i J i i fl . 1 E i V e 4 1 ii 1, f , ; ‘ 1 1 t .\ ,4, A i I( 1 1 1 i I 4 . . t