Star. — London, England, 1804-02-28 00:00:00

- i . .. ; . , . .. .. •- • • - . . , ' •• ••- " z " . 4 4 b.,,,.. .^ , • . ';‘.-- 41 1; . . s ' illir t(A' 'de _-_,,e_e... A bi•- 1 / 4 ..eg, I' ~, • - 111 P': • _ .-..-/ -- "i i "ilk 1 (*. •. . 5 ' 1, . - S. NUMBER 4702] PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. fition had gone abroad. He had a right to affunie to himfelf; that the mnch-lamented dines of his Majelly was a matter which materially affefted and interehed this great nation at fuch an important cri es. He fhould with ,to know,therefore. what rea fons could be affigned by his lajelPfs hi:Milers fee their having kept fo long fluent upon this point, and for having thus withheld that information which he conceived to be due to the Houle; and from the an fwer which he (hould receive to Rich an interelliqg queftion, he thould either think himfelf warranted to acquiefeing in the motion which bad been already made, or Ibould himfelf morn, that the Hence do immediately adjourn. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in anfwer to the Hon. Baronet, laid, that though be had not the happiaefs of being able to Rate to the Houk, that his Meiefty was perfealy recovered from his indifpofition, he would venture to fay, -that feels' a happy event was eich, to all appearance, far dif rant. In anfwer, however, to the quelliern which had been put, he thought hinifelf aatheicifed to fay. that in the opinioess( his Majeftereeepletkil i proott, a communication fi lch as the one ended to, •and re quired by the Hoe. Baronet, could act prifißily .an fwer any good porpofe ; and further, that any pro ceeding, founded upon fuch a eqnstnunicarion, would, in their opinion, be pettedly inconfifterit With their fenfe of ,duty; both to the King and to the public, befides being highly indecent in itfelf. as making im proper allufions to his Majefty's indifpofition, and that it was therefore utterly unnwarranted. Sir ROBERT LAWLEY then moved, " That the Houle do adjourn." On the previous quetlion being again put from the Chair, Mr. FOX rofe, and addreffed the Honk nearly to the following purport :—Sir, i fhould deem my felt highly deficient in the duty I owe to the Houle, to the public. to his Majeftv, and to the Omaha tion of this Kingdom, could I bring myleif to ac quiefce in the anfwer which has juft now been given by the Right Hon. Gentleman oppofite. Ido not think, that in treating of this bufinefs there can be any filch indelicacy as he' (tams, except it tan be Paid to be indelicate to contradift public report, by giving the Nation proper information on the fubjed in queltion. Now, Sir, what is the anfwer which has been returned to the quehion put by the Right Hon. Baronet ? The Right Hon. Gentleman has (aid, • thpr he, LA his Majelty's confidential fer vent.; di.i not think it neceffary to make any Com munication. L..; me defire the Houfe in invelli gating this imp , : cant queflion, not to confider only the common praftice, nor even the formal words which are uted in this ptace, but to confider a little the true and genuine Ipirit of the Britilh Conflitu. lion : I know of no fuck body a. • his Majefty's con fider:till fit rants.' I know nothing more of that Right tiro. Gentleman who has ufed theft expref fions, chats that he himfelf is appointed his Majefty's Chancellor of the Exchequer, and is, on that ac count, fomewhat more frequently confulted than other Members of this H-nife. In what inilance then, are his Majedy's confidential fervants different from any of its, who fit here for the purport of ad vifing his Majcliy, and for confidering the great affairs of this nation ? Does not the only difference confilt in his Majeliy having an opportunity of more frequently confulting them - ? All this fappofes a eon- Rant, permanent. daily, habitual aline in thole con fidential Miniflers, by their being prepared and at hand to advife his Majeay upon all preffing °eft fions ; but from the moment that his Majelly is pre vented, in point of fad, from exercifing the funetions of Royalty, are they not then reduced exadly to the Rate of other Privy Contsfellors.? In fuch a cafe as the prefent, thefe confidential &runts are, in fad, brought to a fimilar lituation with his Majehy's other advilers. If they had communicated to the HOUSE OF LOADS, MONDAY, FEE. :7. The Lord Met Baron delivered hls opinion on the merits of the Appeal. Mackreath v. Alkew, and thc (lather osnfideration of It was poammed to Monday near. The Bills bereft die Rode, pilseipally of a private nature, were dm= forwarded owe itise.—Adieereed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Weft India Doek Bill was read a third time and pared. Mr. SMOCS repotted from the Hereford Election committee, that the Sting Members es ti duly eleded, and that the Petitions Naiad their returns were frivolous sad vexatious. On the medals of Mr. HILEY ADDINOTON, the minutes d the evidence taken before the Committee on the Pardon of the Cotten Mandadtarent. lair Scats, was ordered to be referred to the Committee on the Petition meetly prefented to the Houk. Lad PETTY prefented a aepoet relative to the Serra Lease Company. which wan ordered to be bid as the table and printed. The Dins of York's Mate 11111 was rod a third due; and pdlol resumer Tax. Lord TEMPLE role, in order to pet a Tullio, to the Secretary at War, bevelling to himfelf, and to Many other gentlessel, in a very high degree. Early in January taft orders had been fent to the different Militia Regiments, by a perfon himfelf Col leaor of the Property Tax, to tranfrnit lifts of officers, and the contribution they had to afford to that tax. On the 25th of February, orders from the fame per fon were tranfinitted, fpecifying the funs to be de. dueled from the pay of each officer, from the next iffue of pay which was to take place. It was his duty to put a queftion or two to the Right Hon. Secretary en this very intereffiug point. The requilition went to take one nulling in the pound from every officer from the 6th of April to the 6th of °amber left, be ing one half year.—lt mull be obvious to every man, that fueli an exaction was unfair, as the Supplemen tary Militia had been called out only in the la:ter end of June or beginning of July, and the commiffions of the Officers were dated in there months. It was alto a fad, that many of tbefe Officers had only been ap. pointed, and joined their regiments, within a month, and from them 'had the property-tax been likewife demanded. When appeals were made againft the payment of the duty, an anfwer was returned, that sf the appeals were found juft, the (urn taken for the SO fix months would be deduced or allowed in the next. But fuppofing the regiment was to be difband. ed by his Majefly, would the money in fuck a cafe be returned ? There was another point which be had to notice, and that was, that even prefuming the le vying the tax to be fair, dill it was not monthly or quarterly, as the Alt prefcribed. Taking fix months ell at once - was too much, and, by that exidlion, there was not an Enfign whole pay in a week amounted to more than a labourer's Wages. He had written a letter on the fubjea to the Secretary at War, and had received an anfwer from him, Ilatiag, that he could not -interfere in the arrangements which had been made. He, therefore, 'abed to know whether any alteration in the mode of collet. ting . the Income Duty from the Officers of the army was in coatemplation ? Unlefs the prefent mode of colleaing the duty was fufpended, he ibould move for a Committee to enquire into the condo& of the Commiffieners. The SECRETARY AT WAR replied, that after what the Noble Lord had Paid in allufion to the letter he had written nim, he hardly knew whether he was the proper perfon to notice what he had now (aid. He had appointed the Commiffioners on oath to exe cute their duty, and there his authority ceafed. The perfons, therefore, oho were the objeas of the Noble Lord's animadver lion, were the Commiffioners, who, if they had abated the truft repaid in them, were liable to the confcquences. He certainly agreed with the Noble Lord, that nt'body could be charged In. come duty on a Commiffion which he did not hold for the full time. Lord TEMPLE, in explanation, kid, that officers appointed in July were charged from the month of April lull. His Lordthip then read the anfwer which Lad been made to an appeal of one of his officers. The SECRETARY AT WAR Paid, that on the "thole he fuppofed that many.of the grievances coin. plAined of had originated from many of thefe officers having negledled to return the lilts within the proper time mentioned by the Commiffioners. Lord TEMPLE °braved, that as the anfwer which had berm made to him opon this fajta, was not, in his opinion, fatisfaaory , he would beg leave to give notice, that in the cootie of a few les he Mould move for the appointment of a Committee to take the matter into confideration. Pill NAJIISTT'S INDISPOSITION. Mr. Secretary YORKE role, and moved the Or der of the Day for the fecund reading of the Bill for amending and confolidating the various Aas rela tive to Volunteers. On the quellion being put from the Chair, Sir ROBERT LAWLEY rok, hafaid, in nuke to erica the further pr4refs of this important Bill; and the re.dons whieb he would aUign for doing fo, 'sere, no doubt, occaSoned by a moll dilirtffing .rcumllance, but one which it was of the utmoft •rnpoetance Oiould be brought into the notice of the I . inufc. I t gr i eve d hi m muc h t o t hi n k, t he ever Lace the lath day of this month, our moll rari'ms Sovereign had been confined with a difirelling nets It was not his with to go into a minute invef !33tion, as to the nature or degree of his filsjeil y's Etricf., but c- •: to exprefs tome thoughts which oc culted to him on this (*cation. It was, in his ePi• rum, ably lutcly necelfary that foam fpecific commu stic.ttion &mild be made to the Hoofe upon this molt !..lenitotts event. It we a communication which Houfe the particulars of his Majelly's indifpolition, we fhould then have derived our information from an authentic fource. Inflead of ailing thus, how ever, his Majefly's confidential fervants tell us, that they do not feel it to be their duty to make fuch a communication ; but on the contrary, that they think fuch a procedure on their part would be highly im proper and indelicate. The grand quellion with us at prefent is—ls his Majelly in a ftate fit for exer cifing his executive and royal funßions ? The an• (war which has been thus given to this important quellion is, that there is at prefent no occahon for difeuffing that matter. Every one mull feel forrow and anxtet in his brean, on account of his Ma jai's indi i fition. I have no doubt that every one o entertains t e hope, that his Ma)efly will not be long deprived of the ability of refuming and exercifing his 'royal funaions, but futcly, every one mud own that it was the bounden duty of chore more immediately acquainted with the fads, to have communicated the ' circumflances to the Houle, in order that we might then confider whether or not it might be necef fary to adopt any immediate flee. There, I coo. [ ceive, lies tht difference of opinion in difeuffiing this queftion i—for I do not fuppofe that it can be ' alledged that, tinder f , me peculiar circumflances ' fuch a communication might he deemed neceffary i and the prior point is, whe (pace of time can or cannot 14 allowed • . elapfe iirevions to doing fo ? When I compare i.is view ..1 the fubjcft with what w e know flour e poblii. report, I certainly think that we are e aili.J to : ,rmih, , :g fat more explicit than what has yet traitf ited i for it would purely be fatiaadory that we • ould '.wild our happinefs on good ground., and ': int' :flied by a public corn mun!cation, that hi, Maj. i y goes on better, that he has recovered confiderably r pee yederdity, and hc, for one, was thoroughly convinced was due to that he makes a g'. " .'l progrefs towards conra the Houfe, when he conlidered the fituatinn of public lef:lnce. Such, the report given in the affairs, arid the relative tituation in which our Conn- Bulletin of this iaf ; lf,c,uotwithflandutg its being try flood in regard to our implacable enemy. lie M favourahl- a c have nn right, from that cir• rich a procedure neceirary too, in order to in tdit.....r n•••lclres that his I►'.ajetll', tiff Ltrofts which Came very diilreiling impref. (Olt 2:ds A c• , rr. plcte recovery will 11%, ai..: mink, doubts, had created in the publie• ...AU::: We are only 1.4 to fuppofe that h. a. loon as the 0%;%4 of his lifajcisy's indiSpo- • ing a graJoal progress. TN molt iaai c ial c . TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 2B, iB, queflions is, whether, as we can thus only hope for a gradual progrefs, any hopes upon this fubjeft are fit for coofideration in this Houle ? With me, however, there refs no doubt as to the matter; I claim it as a right belonging tolhe Parliament of England that it aright to be confulted upon loch an important fubjea. Becaufe the Millers are vocationally confulted by his Welly, as Chancellor of the Ex. chequer, Secretary of State. &e. that, therefore, they cmupok the only channel by which advice is to be eNtstmosicated, or that they are in a fituation which can render them alone to be competent to judge on this matter, without at aU confulting Parlia ment p—l fay . , to allow his .Majefty's Minifters to be this (Me ;edges of how long we can go on without -Ma Wed.y being hi .1- Rate Rt for elercif lag the Rot at Facetious, is tertainly transferring to them much mote power chair they, as Minifters, are *Med to,' We hem it tins moment, upon' the table of this Monk' a minetotication from thsflih , . eretary ciliate to ' theirsiferent` Lords Lienttnisiabi of Comities; by which'lnimbisifoemed, that we bilk at prefat isferly retake -to eine& a formidable ale' Immediate attack from theeritior ;—fuch is the nee=' tire of the information which has been given to the Lords Lieutenants, accompanied with . inftrations to Ore every exertion call the utrftbft vigilance for the Defence of the Country ; and we have no tea• fon • to , trnagine that any other . information has f,n ciirtunanitated to them fence that to which allude. If I do not grofsly mifunderftand the Ustutts which have lately palled this Houfe, :dative tb Volunteer,, I conceive, that, in order to avail ochiftevirsf their fcrvice, they mutt be previoully put under Martial Law, a Rep which mutt be put into exetemlor, by means of a proclamation being iffoed by Ms Mitjafty. This being the cafe, therefore, I would Ia illl to know, what would be the fituatiOn in 'which we &mild Hod oarfelves were fueh vigorous Reps Axis found neceffary to be - adopted ? There are, betides thefe, other points te'lrhieh I would with to dire& the attention of the Moore, in difeuffing this important queltion. I am one of thofe who think they have fupported this Conftitution to the utfnoft of their power, and I have given my fentiments freely on all occalions in which it became requifite f.. toile. Let thole on the other fide of the Houfe, who have exerted themfelves to maintain the Conflitutton in its utmott purity, and who have paid this fubjeft any degree of attention, Mk themfelves, whether the miatrosil If the Xing over Parliament is not as effential to the Britoil' confritution, as the controul of Parliament over the Executive Power Is it not well known that his Majefty has the power of diffolving Parliament on five minutes notice, whenever he thinks proper? If torch, then, be the principles of the Conflitation of our country, I can only fay, that without fuch a com munication, Parliament ms y be deliberating contrary 'ro there principles, 8' being left without any con. trial whatever, by which it mull be acknowledged that fuch a Conilitotion is held together; and winch ought to be conftantly and aCtivety enforced. Will any man fay, that if the Houfe of Commons were not to do their duty, that it would not be incumbent on the Crown to diffolvelt ? Whether fuch a diffolit tion be, or be not, neceffary, is a point on which we are not, by the nature of the Conftitution, entitled to judge. But, Sir, to recur more materially to the Mita under confideration—the want of intelligence -communicated in a manner becoming the dignity of this Houfe; I with to know on what principles it can be allcdged that we are to troll this great and important quellion to chore who Style thernfelves his Majelly'a colAlential Knitters ? We are yet to learn upon what authority a few individuals can claim fuch an important privilege. I find it in no book; I find it in no former praCtiee ; and I find it to be &rally contrary to the Conftitution of this country. I may, perhaps, hear it Stated, in anfwer to my objeftions and doubts upon this fuhjeel, 'that we (his Majelly's confidential Minifters), are perfeftly willing to lake the whole refponfibility on ourfelves.' Can we, his Majefly's other advifers, be Satisfied with fuch an anfwer? No! It is impofiible that we can do our duty, and at the fame time linen to fueh a propofal. In the prefent inflance, I think there are cafes fo • preffing and fo extremely important, that we ought, for the Safety of the Conftitution, and of the nation • itfelf, to endeavour to procure a greater and higher degree of refponfibility. I may afic, Sir, if we are to go on in this manner for one fortnight, for what reafon may we not go on for • fortnight more ? Where is the limit to the duration of fuch an Limon . flitutional and irregular procedure? Let his Majefly's confidential Knitters' make what communication ; they ;steak, it is the whole of the Members of this Houle, Sir, who are the proper perrons to decide. It is the two Honfes of Parliament, by means of a communication from the Privy Council, and not thole who are his hfajefty's confidential Minillers, . who are entitled to confult and advife upon fuch a • fubjeft. Nay, further, I may even fay, that this lioure is not calks' upon to take the communication from theft Minifters. more than from any other in. telligent quarter, unlefs they in particular have con thole whole cducati, a mull enable them to judge of his Maje:ly's real Situation. I would Rill enquire, where is to be the limit as to the difcuffion of bulirefs, which may come before us If we go on with :his Bill, why may we not go on with another ? 1 mull fay, that we are at peelent not only its an anomalous, but in a moll dangerous (late. • We are here dui - Lulling at a period when kis Majefly's Minillers have thon: l :tt it nereifary and proper to in. • Mena the Lords•Lieo tenants that we are in imme diatc cepeetatitin of itivafi in; I ti ul, therefore, that the 11, w,ll thus fee the propriety of adopting I;ene me:times, s‘ hit chy thee may telify, that we ale ‘‘iltitig to reit .em VW' duty to the publi", and ti• u,rnt.4:ll the Llt:tith Coo!titiiti..n in its nttnott purity And I,,tfeetinn. 1 Shall now ei,h clpfeiring on ioi.•a, tha., on this and e•-efy fimilsr occenti, n any d:licacy to i:teri one, 1.• • A• I • re% 01 Slam Attenti.rg with the 1 (new and 155111v11, to the latety of our costuay ; I PRICE SPCPENCL. the more efpecially when we are eapofed to any pnC. fibility of invafion from a foreign enemy ; fur on no • account whatever ought we to kave it in the power of his Majefty's Minillers to hinder Parliament from' exereifing its pia and conditntional authority. The CHANCELLO st the EXCHEQLJER—. " Mr. S . before I proceed to pay atteatiOn - • to what bas fallen from the Honourable Gentlemaa rerpolling the-ezpreffion,'' the confidential famuste • of his Majelty, it will be necessary for me to fay a few words in defenceof, and for the purple of main. • . seining that principle of relponfibility which the Ho- nourable Gentleman has affeaed to treat without:kr , • difregard. As far, Sir, as 1 have been able to cons. , prebend the tenoor of his obiervations, it appeared; • to me that he teemed to infindate that there erillO4 a alilpofition on the part of Miailters to conceal froinf• , the public what they have a right to know. Sir, so my own part, I will moll emphatically declare, and? • Fen furs the fentiments of the red of his Maker"' • . Minifers coincide with mine, that there is no with, • jaclination or defign to conc eal from this Hattie or , Roos the Nation, any cirentneente which could be iftiparted to them with, I will twit fay, a doe regard to delicacy, but with even the obtervaace of a de cent propriety. If that communication which the Honourable Gentleman declares this Houle hat a , tight to expel, has not been made to it on this. par.!, titular emergency, that fault, if it be one, is to be juflified on reminds of much greater importafice s on confiderattons of higher confequence, than any ; fentiments of •a falfe and culpable delicacy. It itt . • to be joftified on cireumflances, the knowledge . of which, I am perfnaded, would meet the a; plobatiou of a great majority of this Honk, but of ethic+, bis Majefty's IMniftersontered into a prematuic • fidtratton, they would but ill deferve that confidence and rapport, which, to this moment, they have obd tamped. This h a difcretion which they wit easiest. your to maintain, and thefe ate obligations which they will never lofe fight of. If I have a entree coo. ception of what has fallen from the Honourable Gentle Man, he has, on this night, thrown out the. • very extraordinary idea, that on every temporary in. difpofition of the Monarch, there arifes a neceffity for an immediate communication to Parliament. Sir, I will not trefpafs upon the patieoee of the' Hour:, by labouring to controvert the abfprdity of a principle, the ellabliffiment of which would be pro duetive, I will not ray of merely inconvenience in a . practical view, but of great poffible danger-to the confitutina of this realm. Sir, I know not upon what reafonable grounds Minißers can be arraigned of withholding communication from this Honk. do not fee upon what principle it could have been expeaed by any candid, impartial man. The ham tin of yefterday, in my mind, prepared the public fdr no fpeedy communication ; on the contrary, as, fat' as I have been able to view it, it teemed to even fa percede the neceffity of any communication. The Honourable Gentleman has commented upon the terms in which the reports of the phyficians have been couched, and has contraßed the bulletin of this day with that of yefterday. He has attempted to draw a diffinition between the expremons, • that no rapid advancement was to be expeeed,' and that 'his Majefty was gradually advancing towards reco.. very.' Sir, I ( ball not attempt to follow the Ho- nourable entleman through all the fubtleties of a . difinltion, at any time of little important, in War. and certainly made much lets fo by the obfervation I fhall have the honour of making to this Houle re fpetting thole bulletins. Sir, the phyficians in draw. ing up their report, referred to the anxiety of every defcription of his Majelly's fubjeas, to the public at large, and fo prepared it as to meet that anxiety. have now the happinefs to Rate to this Houle, that the phyficiane who attend the Royal Perron. judg ing and reafoning from the cootie that a fimilar ma. lady has taken place twice within the tail id years. are unanimously of opinion that I,is Nlajelt!'s pre fent indifpolition will be but of Short duration. The Honourable Gentleman has fuppofed a cafe when a neceffity should aide of calling out the volunteer force, and has atked, how it is to be aecomplithed during the fufpenfion of the Bill now btfore you, , but by a proclamation which necelTerily infers the fign manual of the Monarch ? Although certainly the fign manual is not to be difpenied with on many occafions, yet in the poflibility of loch an occafion it would not be necelTary, for the eliding laws am • competent to the aftembling of the volunteer force, and giving it every neceltery aair;ty. But if his Ma . jelly's fignature ware necaffery, I am happy to Rate to the Houle, that th.rc would at this moment guilt no oltrultion to public twiner,. I again re peat for the fatishaion of the Houk, and I tuft for that of every individual in the empire. that as far as depends upon the !TUC& of the royal functions, , the bufinefs of the country will not be fubjea to any fittpenfe or interruption. Let me thou implore this Hunfe in favour of thole, whom, notwithliand• ing the obfervations of the Honourable Gentleman, I will Rill venture to defignate as his Majefty's cove. dential Mainers, in favour of chafe who freely and confidently, confident became they feel they are aa. ing uprightly, &Rum to thallicl,t% a high and tre mendous rerponfibility, I will 1 fay, Sir. implore this Houle to believe, that they will sae withhold communication longer than it (hell be n. ceffitty. At preterit I have no hesitation in drtlaring, it would be both indecent and indelicate. I fh dl therefore. Sir, think it my duty to objea to the moiihei of the Hon. Baronet. The [mate of hi. hi,jelh• requires that Parliament thoold continue fittinv, ; 1 hull that the o ifdom and ditcretion of this . 11 ,,, tic Mill throw no ohilaclet in oewa y t the public bi mind., ao in ,onitenience which will inevitablr b: produced, by tdoring the moti ,, n th‘tt has b;:n lohmitted to them. How the Hon. llar:•t•Lt can reconc•le the im f,.ttant wieftion befure the Hoeft, with the motion ~f adjournment propoted by h•na,,..1 am utterly at a t , ) Ent berate the Houk fhall conical t,t cl,..er a s!tc4t pubic ria:efure, and confidlering the inn:miaow gifts at which we dud, perhaps we of A :i5Nr f Om'