Star. — London, England, 1816-05-22 00:00:00

• • t 4 iireits Ireland, staci hi iiOnlcl telVthe Right Ho. • o pfahle Secretairy for Irelandi(Mr. Peel) whai had 6, en Anne - . . by assimilation' in that county-within the last two Months by his Honourable Friends and him- Tipperary was as tranquil at present as either' Siddlesez ar.Surrey. Five millions of Irish Catho lics were ready to grant securities—to go hind' in hod with the Catholic Bishops and Clergy, in corn ?ionic with he precautionary measures demanded by Parliament. And the securities being offered, w h er e was new- the obstacle to granting an Emanci. on on the terms offered by Government ? Was it r t h e part of the Pope There, as the Noble Lord , there was no dirEculty. The Noble Lord, to hbeodit, had taken infinite trouble to make himself • a ppointed with the sentiments of the Pope on the eat. That Noble Lord had Made himself master - -doe Pope's sentiments, from several communica dais with Cardinal Gonsalvi. But. he (General . hu r rhew) was in possession of the Pope's sentiments a s well as his Majesty's Ministers ; and he knew that the Pope was ready that instant to stretch every nerve, to go every lengtb he or any of his prede cessors had gone with respect to any country what. certainly. he himself had gone great lengths with Napoleon Bonaparte, in his Concordats to the Galilean Church. If he went but hair that kingth.with respect to Ireland, he would be satisfied.— The Noble Lord bad gone ofie way to work to be come mas ter of the Pope's sentiments, and he had Bone anotFer —he had made it his husinesi to' go to Rome for that purpose—(Laugh.) He had got an i n terview by.means of a third person, and the Pope h i mse lf h a d told him his readiness to acquiesce in any measure of security which might be demanded. He pledged his honour that what he stated was truth. • The Noble Lord who had taken so even a part on this subject in spite of his intolerant co t lleagues, would do him the justice to say that what he had stated as the opinion of the Pope was truth. Where then was now the obstacle? Wbat security now remained to b e asked ? 'l'he Irish clergy and people were ready to grant every security—the Pope himself had signi. fled his acquiescence to the Catholic Bishops or Ire land. The obstacle was only in the unfortunate minds da parcel of intolerant, bigotted, and worth kg Cabinet Ministers (laugh) who would not listen to the Noble Lord, and who were too powerful againtt him. They knew by their votes who those intolerant and bigotted persons were. They were , an only ignorant of the state of Ireland, but ;gno me of the Catholic religion. They knee; no more of the state of Ireland than the common nr on who swept the streets knew of North America—(Lamib.) He was afraid it was too true that they had succeeded in misleading in his latter days the mind of the Head of the Empire, for he was known :a his former days to entertain liber.:l sentiments—(Call of Order!) He Amid give his vote in favour . of Catholic emancipa tion, in any shape the Catholics themselves might Oink advisable. Sir JOHN COX HIPPISLEY would ilk oppose the pr:•►ent rn ,, tion ; but announced his intention of shortly directing the attention of the House to sub- jects of vital importance, connected with the presei,t question, namely, What had been the relations bc• tween Political , States and the See of Rome ; and what measures had been. &ken by all State*, Cdtholic as - well as Protestant, towards the See of Rome, tor their OWn security e Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the question had beets so often agitated, and he had so often delivered his own sentiments on-it, that he did not consider himself called on to state, at any length, the grounds of his concurrence with the motion. He had always ' been of opinion that the Catholics would ultimately be successful in their object ; fur he never could con ceive that any thing but an apprehension of danger to the Consitution could justify an exclusion of any. body of men from a full participation in the benefits of that Constitution: Nothing could ever have giver) countenance to the principle of exclusion. but the conviction that our liberty and security would have been endangered by acting different principle. No feeling o f unkindness or illiberality—no feeling of vannopolizing power in their own hands could ever occupy the minds of the people of this country — nothing could delay, what it would be grateful. to. themielves to confer, a participation in the privileges . of the Constitution, but the conviction that the fabric would he endangered by such participation. There were some circumstances in the late state of the world which opposed a barrier to the progress of this question. So long as a power in Europe existed, which threat card the liberties and securities of other countries, and so long as that power had in its possession, the head j of the Cathoiic Church , it was natural that many should be apprehensive of danger from placing any !seer in the hinds of the Cathiilics ; but now the Had of the Catholic Church, tits:lk Gon, ceased to bus prisoner, and the formidable Power he had al lard to, ceased to exist. But thero had been nn Roger obstacle than the Hntortunate temper with Itltich the Catholics had chosen to prosecute their own ioterens. T:ie greatest mischief which this did was to lead to a belief that such a feeling did not Prevail among the Catholics as was likely to make tbefseasure salutary. Bin at last the House had had the satisfaction of hearing the Petition of the Right Honourable Gentleman, which displayed sentiments of attachment to the Constitution, and of concilia. lion towards their Protestant brethren, which if dis played *hen the subject was last before the House, would bare gone far to have induced the House to . come to a different result. There could be no doubt that a more liberal and less controversial view re 'Peeling religion was now generally taken through. out Eur o p e , than in former times. So far as he could observe the state of feeling on this subject in the Public Councils where he had been present, he saw tenting but the utmost liberality. In Germany, that, Allot the Continent of Europe where a political public mind existed ir.the greatest perfection. though t was not so far advanced as our own country in the tstitutions for securing the expression of it, the utmos l:berality existed with respect to religious opinions.— 'a none of the Protest Ant States of Germany, ter. tale', not in Hanover, the States with which we were Rost ost closely connected, was it considered necessary i t the public security to act on a system of exclu. 'Pc,. 'He was gl a d t h at t h e H onoura bl e Baronet (Si r • 1 .% - .Hippisley) had given notice of a motion on a, jlllet connected with the present. He did not see mains* objection to the motion now as formerly— conceived, that the effect of it would be to read a ess citof Issettil wisdom to thou .intemperats spirits, r i. t ...,•. ,M r romP 7 lol"7"--"... r irIiii r POPINIMIN V PIMI rr .wrTIF”' , • •• - .. 4 : .. of iiiiii, Apilaisiia jai i . ei iT . ftie cailifie Oa %%hill to Kress to their own degradation. He trusted, that the Hon. Baronet wnisld not go into any thing alto lated 0 lead Pailiatient ink) religion; controversy. What Parliament ought, its *confine thettiseliel to, was the great and broad feitOres of the question ; they ought not to go into useless hire, but to shew that they wished to, confine themselvei to what was necessary for them to adopt for the security of the State, and the Prete:rant Church. If the Catholics in Ireland.were among the must bigotted, and least 'enlightened Catholics of Europe, this was no reproach to them, but to the State which had io long *ne glected them. We could look forward to no satisfac tory Government in Ireland, which was pot founded Ua principle of inclusion, and n o t o f exc l us i o n.— ntil this question should be set at rest by .Parlia.' rnent, it was in the power of any man to make Use of it as a firebrand to inflame the minds of the people of Ireland, and they could not be said to have estab lished in that country, the government which was the result of the Constitution in which we lived.- -He looked on the settlement of the question as im portant to Ireland, but still more important to Great Britain—till it was settled, Government could not assume au attitude of impartiality towards all•reli tious sects. But there was another view till their emancipation was accomplished --Government would never possess within the country all the means of go. verning it presented by the Constitution ; for though the loyalty of the Catholic Gentlemen could not be doubted, were the exclusion to be considered as per manent, that cosclialsupfe.rt • could not be ezpecte4 from them which they would give it they formed part of the same system with ourselves. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. - Peel) had, complained of the w.int of a resident Gentry in Ireland, and wished that it could be possible to devise some means to enforce residence. It was impossible without a violation of the Constitution to prevent a man from residing in any part of the Empire he might think proper. But he would tell his Right HOT). Friend how he might find means of using a great mass of Catholic Gentle men, and of the Catholic Clergy, a body which was ramified throughout every part of the Island, and which he might thus bring into most salutary opera non in aid of Government. The non-resident gentry were comparatively few in number to those whom we made absentees in their own country. The Ca tholics might rest convinced that if by smne folly en their own part their cause was not injured, they might safely confide in the wisdom of tke State. With this well-founded conviction, they should rest. patkutly in the assurance of final success ; and if he had not a very wrong conception of the state cf the-public mind, and of the merits of the question, the subject would soon be satisfactorily adjusted, and a powerful instrument would be taken from the hands of design ing personi. Many persons, who viewed the question 'in a liberal light, were deterred from acceding to the , claims of the Catholics by the idea that the. Catholics would not be satisfied unless they had an gstablislied' Church.--6(/icar, heir.)—lie should like to see the question put upon that issee, and be should know how to oppose it.—(licar, hear.)--But, at premit, the privileges which were withheld from the Catho lics were not of sufficient consequence to form a ground of contention, and, at the same time, were a formidable weapon to the enemies 111 the State. As the question stood on Jiffy/eau and wore favourabise grounds from those on which it wits placed last year, he should support the motion of the Right Honour. able C.;ittlernaii. Mr. PEEL said he was very sorry to be compelledl to differ hom those with whom he was in the habit of acting ; but, lest Lis silence might be construed into acquiescence in the arguments of his Noble Friend, he felt it due to himself to declaie, . that he continued to feel the same objections which he had felt to similar motions on former occasions. Indeed there were objections to the motion before theft', which did not differ, on former occasions, from simi-. lar motions proposed by the Right• lion. Gentleman (Mr. Grattan), The House It ad formerly been told that the subject was of vast tnagnituJe.. and that it was due at least to the great koLly of Catholics to take their - claims into Consideration, to try at least whether some amicable arrangement might not be effected. The subject, however, had been taken into c Insideration, and after that fair and full experiment, he appealed to the House whether the Protestants or the Catholics were satisfied with the Bill then pro posed. Besides his objections to grant the Catholic Claims in general, he could not consent to give a precipitate ;Wedge to take the subject into considera tion at a future time, which might be thost unfit for that consideration. Neither the arguments of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grattan), nor of his Noble Friend (Lord Castlereagh). had applied to this point. There were many considerations extrinsic and collateral to the claims themselves, which deter. mined the propriety of discussing them at any parti. 'color time. It bad been admitted on all hands that some times were peculiarly unfavour tile to the ( Hs. cession of these claims. - If not, why had not the con sideration been brought forward at an earlier petioih. of the Session ? or why did not the Right H9n. I tleman (Mr. Grattan) now moire for leave to bring in a Bill ? If then the present Session was not favour able for the consideration of the claims, what se. curity was there that next Session would be more favourable, or why should the House be shackled as to its future proceedings ?—Hear, hear, hear.) — If next Session was favourable for the consideration of the question, the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Grattan) might then move for a Committee, or for leave to bring in a Bill, without any such pre. trims pledge. Though he did not intend to say any thing as to- the general merits of the question, be should rectify same misconceptions of what had /alien from him in the debate on the state of Ireland. He had never said that 25,000 men were necessary to keep down the discontented Catholics. It was to be recollected, that 40,000 men had been kept up in' Ireland during the war, and he had said, that he did not think it would be expedient, with a view to gene-, ral tranquillity, to reduce more thee fifteen thou sand' in the first year of peace. The disturbed state of Ireland did not arise from the direct or indirect operation of the political disabilities, but from the system of past implicy; and 'to the commercial restriction to which that country had been subjected, and which had increased her population without in creasing her wealth. Some part of the evil might be attiJoutable to the penal laws, which were vepeal. , ed, bet which were not to be confounded with the ri.:.~ x .~ . • - • . . political cliwl►iiiciti ihias g to be recollected, this tho preieni, distor imeei .in Ireland did not ei,ist 14 those placei iq,whiefi rellgiovs party spirit Woe most prevalent. The most Prote• stint and the most Citholi: 'canaries Were tranquil. The disturbances were gtntinded on combinations to rechice the price of' land. *dß other stibjects not even remotely connected with the political disabilities of the Citholici. If to accede to the Catholic Claims would put an end to the tumult, it scqu4d be fait to conclude that past con - cessions Would have been accompanied with a dinthiution of .these dis turbances. Bat he would appeal to the House whether since 1792, when the great concessions had been made to the Catholics, the state of Ire land had not been infinitely worse than before ! The argument which would be opposed to this fact was, that something sill!, remained to be con ceded, and that, therefore. the Catholics were still discontented. But even the Bill of ISO, did not pro fess to put Catholics on an equality with Protestants. The two highest offices in the Law and the State re. mained Shut t4l them. - There would be still sortie thing to concede, something on which 'to ground new demands and new discontents. The Lord Lieti tenant would still have a discretion of excluding Ci• tholtcs froth office. If the Lord Lieutenant, in cen sequen:e of that discretion, eAlncled them from offices, the exclusion would be more invidious than a legal exclusion, and more likely to create discontent t if they were admitted it would be to fry a dangerous experiment. He was 'convinced that the Catholics would not then be Satisfied to see a Church established for the minority of the nation, or to support Protestant pastors by their utiles. The same ground for irrjta tion would exist which now existed—the same weapon would remain In the hands of the factious. He should therefore oppose the *lotion, which would pledge the House to the consideration of a question from which he anticipated no good effect —(clear.) Mr. PONSONBY said, that the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had complained that no good effect had arisen from the concessions which had been made to the Catholics. If the mature and cir- , cumsta'nte of those concessions were considered, they would be found to be more calculated to prOduce disquiet than satisfaction. They had never been dic tated by the principles which should guide a States man, but leader the pressure of temporary difficulties. Even in 1792, when those concessions had been made, ail the inconveniencies which had since Ensued had been foretold in the Irish Parlianieut by those 'who complained of the insufficiency' of those concessions. As to the penal laws, they were necessary to support the system of political disabilities—there was no me dium—the Catholics must be either our equals or our slaves. (Hear.) The state of the Catholics in Ire laud was most unfavourable to tranquillity. Could it be expected that the Irish Catholic Gentlemen should give such active ant warm assistance to the r floveinment as thoSe who participated in all the pri. vileges of the Constitution ; Did not the state rif mind of the Catholics render them more liable to be worked upon ? All the objections which' bad been made last year had vanished, and he was glad to find the Catholics had ,hewn a spirit of crincuiation. As to the proposed securities and guards, he regarded them as so bran' cobwebs. The true security was in the satisfaction and content of the Catholics. (Heir-) air G. HILL, after the cries of Question had sub• sided, referred to the efforts of the Right Honourable Member for Liverpool (Mr. Canning) in favour of the Roman Catholics, which, successful in the first instance, had afterwards been defeated by a majority of only four votes. Before that result, however, it had produced no beneficial effects: on the contrary, petitions had been presented against them ; and the Catholic Boar( had been encouraged in its injudi cious measures of violence with regard to the were. Sir N. COLTHURST with ditficulty obtained a hearing, while he avowed his opinion distinctly in fa , n vu.o. of the modal). . He was extremely anxious that a mild and conciiiating system should be pursued to. wards Ireland. After a loud cry of question►, question! a division took plAce— _. For the 'notion - • • Against it - - - Majority against the Catholics - 1111Ns'ELLAN lOUS. - 141 -17 i - ........31 Mr. PEEL moved for leave to bring in a Bill ro extend the powers of the Act Gtr improving It. Inland Navigstiou in fre t:nut. Leave was given, the hill was brought in, read a first, and ordered to be.read a seeolid time to morrow. Mr. L. FOSTER brought up Hsu Ite e ort 'of the Committee of yesterday with tegard to the 7111 article of the Union with Ireland. be Resolutions et the Cisannittee bring agreed to, Bills in con formity with them were ordered to be brought in, on the moue° of the Chancellor at the Exchequer. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUf.R laving moved the postponement of the Repast upon the Husbandry Horses Bill until I I • Mr. C. WY YN asked, when it was really 'wended to pro ceed upon this Bill, which had lama eo often postponed 1 he CHANCELLOR of the E.XCH ER, awesome ob servations, named Friday, tor which day the inotiois was accord ingly fixed. The Local Militia Payinetits Bill was ootnositted.-s-Report to morrow. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, that as the Financial Resole:lnns whiCh he bad submitted to rite House were not yet printed, he. wished to postpone uutil Friday the adjourned discussion upon those Resolutiese.—The disoession was accordingly postponed. Mr. TIERNEY asked when it was intruded to lay before the , House the paper ordered untie dine ago with regard to the pro duce of the Taxes imposed lilt Station t The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, to morrow, as be expected. Mr. TIERNEY observed, that it would be impossible for his Honourable Friend to make a comparative statement of the pro duce of the revenue for Me two last years, unless this paper were in his possession. Mr. PONSONBY observed Upon what be could not hesitate to call the scandalous delay which had marked this Session lu the' execotion of the orders of that House. The CHANCELLOR of the RXCHEQUER said, that the delay complained of arose out of the voluminous order s that were issued. Mr. TIERNEY remarked, that this apology might apply if slveral orders had been addressed to the same dice; but hoer would the Right Honourable Gentleinassacemmt for the delay of the return from the Statnp-ONce, which had been ordered on his minion some time ago, for no other ordei of the House had been addressed to that dike t Mr. C. WYNN ins natka of a Bastion for Theraday, to order timapilintaitce before the House et the 011Cif to whom an order bad boss olinesea4 two meths ago with reopen to the payment of ma tale coetlegsaciss. Mr. W. SMITki observed, that an order made en his motion, as far beck as the IN& of Mares, lice a Reties of Writs of Ex tents Ikea the Walburg . , bad not yet been aimpliod with. Mr. cALestArr said, that as private besiness wasnow mark seer, be thought public business shwa bight steelier every owe by; an 4 alto' a abort canver athok between the COUNCILLOR .ribs Rafitififesa, Puissoutru e sad tbelireacsa it warn =ltint public besinesetiteui4* she yeadedo; of the eesumose at bail afar her eV*. Adjarsi at bit alit/ ',Ws *Week . . . ti •••• -1•4;• • •- • • ^ • • •••4 '~." -; " - • r -t , _ .r '-":"Z! THE EVENINTr STAR:. ND,ON . •„ , WEDgESDAY, MAY 21, 1816. PRICE OF erOCKS THU) DAY AT TWgI o VE O'CLOCit Reduced G I !I—Com. m.o. 616—for acc,64 I• , 4 per Cent. —5 per Cent. nSit —B an d a 2 1 . St. pr. Oran. 19 i—Du. pap.-4- —Exch. SIW is. die. Zs. pr. Several . important topics oeccipiea the House of Commons last night-the Educatio n of the Poor the lonian Isles—the Trinity Corporationand Mr. Grattan's Motiori fok taking into consideiation, early in the next Session, the Laws affecting the Cathelice of the United Kingdom:: Lord Cistinte.aati WO; ported and Toted for the motio n ; but it was lOst. dot ientimenti on the question Of Religious hilities in general are well Itiow . A: The poi of the Civil Magistrate should be atm . ,* enough to enp !Ai the safety of the State . ; without Seeking adviittisioui aids by the exclusion 01 any class of dtitiful inlsjeat from the eseicise of their civil rights. The Catho: hits—the bissenters of every description, have tea: son to complain of the injustice of laws which de. priee.them of any rights common to their fellow sob jecti, merely on account of their religious opinions.. It ii ,as proper, just, and. equitable, drat Catholics should be emancipated and enjoy equal rights in the British cloalinionS, ai that Protestants should enjoy similar blessings in the Catholic States of the Conti nent. In one word; penal statutes respecting matters of conscience=disabilities for religious opinions, are a species of persecution disgraceful to the *ge in which we live: nor will the power of priasti to fo. ment disputes and disturbances, dangerobi to the peace and safety of indivicluals--dangerOul to the pear,. and prosperity of the Civil Powers, be ever effect tally removed till all - such laws be entirely atioliihtd I is only by the importance attached by G.v menu to the predominance of particular sentiments, that the logomachies of priests Of any description can become troublesonr to them. Elevate them a ll to the same ionportanceor reduce them to the same level of insignificance, and know no man but by his dutiful Obedience and moral conduct as a subject of the State, and from that moment you will secure equally the love, the esteem, the obedience, the af fection, and the rupport of all men who possess any real religion. /3ot for the animosities engendered by a possibility afforded to any one sect to lord it over the rest, ! and such usurpation to secure to themselves pecu. Igains and privil ege s, none. of the disgraceful ' scenes from time to tiro:. trans acted in Ireland--none of the htttcherirs and persecuzions which have dis: graced France since the return of the BourisoNs; .would have been rrpetrated : and if, unhappily, • any individuals , s.-eking to obtain such powers, should have perpetrated acts of oppr e i s i on . and virulence, such i exemplary 'punishment would speedily have reached them as to deter other bad men final Ole commission of such crimes.. _ We have this day in our Parer an Advertisement; announc:ng the poti;ication of iht it:quilt on the per ,stcutions of the French Protestants, bY M. Paitaot; who lately visited the Southern districts at France. for the purpose Of examining in the capital and on the spot where the persecutions ciccurre.!, the real situa tion of the Protestants. Our limits do not allow us this day to dwell on this subject. Sulfite it to min that froth this Report it appears that the impioin, pacious, and barbarous Conduct of their.perseciitucs, has eiceeded the representatiOns of the Committee of Proteitauti Which advocated their cause in this Conn• try. and equalled in criminality that of the Most guilty pit secutors of ancient tames. To-morrow; or as soon .!, we can make room in our columns, wit I shall make our Readers acquainted with some 01 the contents of this Report. Ministers received tiispatrlies this day, froth' Lord CLANbt ItTY, the British Minister at Brussels. Brussels Papers to the 2iiih ;octant arrived last . night. One of them contaias the , 11 reANKTOILT MAT 11. "The Journal fie Frankfort of this dare gives, under the heal of Naples, April 20, the aricle consenting the peace runcillml by Lord Eamon-En with the Barbary States. bp:tiled in the Mo. niteuruf the loth from the Giorsialle delle Seeltie, to which is subjoined the frallOwing paragraph Behold then the hopes that Europe eisoceived at the Congress reduced to acknossoledza in, itself tributary to some nii,erable pirates In the Mediter. ranran. That the king Join of Naples, that Sardinia, rejoice at this Treaty, that is conceivable—their weal:fie:l relields in It on alleeia. ion of their noetortunes;—bu: England! which by no could make all these th;eves retire isto their dens ; which possesses Malta •and the Seven Islands, vitt never *ash away the disgrace of having riveted the chains of ! this Treaty be compared with that conchnled by the Americans with Algiers, and it will be seen vstat there Was reason to ea. heist hum so powerfufa mediator." Theloitowing piragraph is from a Chester Pa p er: it k iMpo , .,sihic to give the least credit to its Pixf Ecu flex tm 1816 !—Yfe have this wed, to record a moat disgraceful instance of persetut nu hi cur own nelgiii hourhood—si men in the employ of Lord UR ass/trout, having been discharged trotn.his Lord:hip's works at lialkin, for no other ts . asom than they weredhscntert front she Estabiisheci Church. Prey:one to their elsmissal they were informed, that on. less they would cneforni altogether to the practices and forms of the Established Church, they should tto longer have work, at this ttese poor but nobiesnainikel Welshmen replied, 'they 'could ne.t admit to that kind of bondage;" They were consequently tended adrift, and other labourers employed in their plebes. About a lortnight ago they addressed a most respe, ful pcition to the Noble Lord, in which they stated the number of their respecs tive families, and the length of their servitude, Inane of them having beenfrom 1 to 20 years hi his Lordship's fetvice. Tble proved e n fro Conant. We have great pleasire in communicating the ter. urination of the disturbances at Brandfln; in Suffolk. The inhabitants on Monday guaranteed the price of flour at Ls. 6d. per stone, with an advance tat wages of 2s. per head for a fortnight, and unless the millers sedate their prices by that time, the officers of the parish will purchase their grain at the cheapest rate, and furnish the poor with provisions at prune cost. The rioters were perfectly satisfied, and tranquillity was completely restored. There is aot a doubt but j the occasion of this di.jtorbance was the high price of beer, bread, and meat, and low price of labour, waist of employment, &c. • Como EXCHAllfills MARI-LAMY Mat L. Same dullness that prevailed at the dose of bibodity's market soatinnod today, hiv; , - noloyers of Wheat, _ and our peter are soasinal A my considerable quantity undisposed of. Barley, Beans, Peaui and jOats are very dull sale, and rather lower, the supply dead tar effeediag the demand, mr • ea. _