Star. — London, England, 1807-02-13 00:00:00

CAPITAL FREEHOLD ESTATES, HUNTINGDONSHIRE TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION, by Mr. LEAKE, At the Bell Inn, Stilton, on Monday March ad, at Three o'clock, in Sixteen Lots, consisting of r i 'HE MANORS of Sawtrey Stilton and Gidding, and fundry valuable Farms (the greater part Tythe Free,) containing stB4 acres of excellent arable, pafture, meadow and wood land in Sawtrey Stilton, Caldicot and Gidding, let to refpec table yearly Tenants at old rent, amounting only to 22171. per annum, and capable of very conliderable increafe. Particulars maybe bad of George Boob Tyndale, Efq Lincoln's Inn Fields ; of Mr. Hinde, at Sawtrey ; and of Mr. Leake, at Flacon, near Peterborough. PARLI/IMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, THURSDAY, FEB 7s. The Houfe, in a Committee of privileges, beard tvidence in the cafe of the Zouch Peerage. The LORD CHANCELLOR left the Woolfaek, and fisted, that he bad in his band a bill to relieve one of their Lordibips from the penalties which attached to his having fat in the Houfe dufing a debate, without taking the oaths. The Noble Lord al- Wed to vras Lord De Dun Renville, who. from inadvertency, re• mained in the Houfe when the Slave Trade Abolition Bill was under difeuffion, though his Lordihip did not vote. In a former cafe, when a bill of this kind was refortcd to, the Noble Lord (the Marquis of Latifclowne) who, from miler inadvertency. had violated the itatute of Charles 11. not only fat in the Houfe but took a part in its proceedings, and gave his vote. In bringing in the bill in his band, be bad fiddly followed the precedent of the cafe of the Marquis of Lanfdowne, by conflating his Majcity's pleafnre upon the occafion, as this was a matter fuppofed to con cern the prerogative, and be had to Bate, that be ihtroduced the meafure by his Majefty's command. The Bill was then read a firft time. The bins Treafury Bills' Bill, and Canada Yarn Bill, were read a third time and paffed.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. In a Committee of the whole Houfe. the Chz..4man was °Mc:el to bringin a Bill for authorizing his Majefty to grant the King's Houfe at Greenwich, and the appurtenances thereunto belonging, to the Royal Naval Afylem. Mr. ADDINGTON gave notice, that he fhould move to-mor row for copies of the Correfpondence of the Secretaries of State to the Governors of the Ifle of Trinidad, refpeding the *hams of Lands in that ifla.nd. On the motion of Lord HOWICK, it wan (mitred that the names of the Members ()mold be called over on Tutfday neat, for the purpofe of chufing p Select Committee. The Bill for repealing part of the Statute of Queen Anne. giving certain priv;leges to the South Sea Company, was read a firft time, and <>retired to be read a fecond time to-morrow. Lord TEMPLE moved for and obtained leave to bring in a bill for the better Regulation of Pilotage and Pilots in the different ports of Great Britain. A Meffage from the Lords informed the Houfe, that their Lordfhips had agreed to the One Million frith Treafury Bill. Bill, to the Bill for preventing the Sediatftion of Soldiers and Sailors, and to the frith Gun Powder Importation Bill . The Cape of Good Hope Trade Regulation Bill was read a third tine and palled CHIPPENHAM KLiCTION._ . - The following were the Members appointed by ballot to decide the merits of this petition : Nicholfon Calrert,Efq. joleph H. Strutt, Efq. William Fitzhugh, Efq. Hon. T. Bernard. Walter Fawkes, Efq. Francis Pymm, Efq. Hon. E. Spencer Cowper Snowden Barne. Efq. Right Hon. Lord Mahon William Mills, Efq. A. H. Eyre, Efq. H. Meade Ogle, Efq. William Odell, Efq. Right Hon. Lord Mariham, and Sir T. Turton, Bars. Nominees. FINANCI. Lord CASTLEREAGH began by Rating, that perhaps in the whole cootie of his Parliamentary ext. perience there bad never occurred an melon in which he rote with fo much diffidence and diltrua of him felf as in the prefent ioßance. There were many views which the Noble Lord had taken of the Fi nancial fituation of the Country. in which he entirely concurred with him. In the fira place, as to the , Sinking Fund, he allowed that it was perfealy open for the difcullion of Parliament to determine to what national purpofe it timid he applied, after it had ar rived at thole limits that might be fuppofed fufficient for the purpofe for which it was originally appointed —the reduaiun of the National Debt. He'perfealy agreed with the Noble Lord, that the unlimited ac cumulation of the Sinking Fond would be a preju dice to the nation, inftead of being a national bene . fit. He admitted that Parliament mutt at fume period or other be called upon to exercife its judgment as to what national purpofes this increafe thould be appii ed. This would be at alt times a very delicate fuls• jai of dilcuflion, but more particularly in during a period of war. If he defended generally the old fyftem of railing taxes to cover the inhere ft of every new loan, he did not mean to pufh that objet ion to an extreme, and fay th tt the general preffitre of the country, or what would re main upon our pollerity, or the nature and general operations of the war, 'might not make it neceflary, in fume refpeas, to der viate from the old fyftem, which he confidered as by much the belt. When the time fhould arrive that the Sinking Fund exceeded the annual loan, that ex cefs would create a fund which would be difpofeable for any purpofes for which it might be required.— He fhould cettainly conceive- himfeif bound upon all principles of public duty. to agree to the plan of the Noble Lord, if his oblations to it were but flight ; but in the light he viewed it, they appeared to him radical and fundamental. He did not much difapprove of the general principles which had been laid down by the Noble Lord as the foundation cfbis fcheme, but he highly difapptoved of and deprecated that itinerante ture which he had elated upon that foundation. He thought the Noble Lord was tight in his general rea forting, to take a very extended view of the finances of the country, and of its means for a period of twenty years. Every one mull fee that in the pre fent (tare of Europe, the war might be long, and al ni.oft indefinite in its duration. Is was, therefore, necelrary to calculate and confider what means the country is poffelfed of to enable her to maintain the war as long as the ambition of her enemies might ' re,:alar it nezeffary. In this point of view he was glad the Noble Lord .had taken Bich alt extenfive view of the probable expendunre of the cotiotry, if the war fhould even ha for the period of twenty years. Although he approved.of .this as a general ttatement, yet he could not approve of the Noble Lord having thought' it expedient and right to em body in a legiflative meafttre brought forward in the prefent year, the t::pet.c,es which .be fuppofed would attend the war in future years. However b e autiful the Noble Lord's fy Item might appear upon the fir(t flatement of it; and whatever hopes , it ,might bold out to the country, the .probability was, that the H ure would be carted m future years to the em baitafrnient and mortification of departing from it, and reverting manyitalts ! of He approved of the *rile Lord% taking an extended view of the follta,:•but this extended view fhould have been merely a prudential view, and by no means a legif lative one. -. He did not find. fault with the Noble ; Lend for laying down general priticiples as the filed data on which to found his plan, for unlefs there were Tome fixed data laid down. it was impoffible to reafon upon the fubjed ; but he objected to the data which were laid down, and which he confidered as entirely fallacious. The Noble Lord had pledged himfelf to find re:ln:tees to cover the intereft of the loans which might be neceffary, without impofingfrelh taxes. He began by affuming that the annual expenditure would be thirty-eight millions, although the grofs expendi ture of the laft year had been forty-one millions. In order to Rate the expenditure fo low, he was obliged to cledna every thing that came under the head of occafronal payment. If, then, it thould be found that the annual expences of the country had.been under-rated by him in his calculation, this firtt error would produce a univerfal difappointment, equal to the hopes which had been held out to the country. Even fuppofing that the expences of the country did not exceed thirty-eight millions annually, even then the fyitein which the Noble Lord had brought for ward would produce a great and rinneceffary expense. He did not now with, nor did he think it a proper time to go into minute details, which would more properly be brought forward in a Committee : it was his with at prefent to dote with the Noble Lord on the data and the prisleiples which he bimfelf had laid down. He confidered generally, that the ex pence of this new fyftem would involve the country in great embarraffment, if not in total ruin ; and that ruin was altogether gratuitous and unneceffary. In the examination of the probable operation of the plan pro poled for the confederation of Parliament, he &wild with to keep as dillind as poffible thefe two queflions : firtt, the ufe to be made of the Sink ing Fund ; and fecondly, the debt which would ac cumulate in the period of twenty years. As to the firft point he confidered, that the Sinking Fund Welt after the year 1816. would form a friffictent fund to provide for the intereft of any loans which might be then wanted. It would then amount to tt, tBopool. annually, which would afford a quantum of ways and means upon which any other fyttem could be built. l it was a refource that was completely as open as that of Supplemental Loan., which the Noble Lord had reforted to. There was another very marked and material diftinetion between the prefent fyflem and that which had formerly been purfued. The War Taxes appeared to be fuppofed as really applicable to the intereft of thofe War Loans, whereas, when they were firft impofed, it was underftood that it was pro mired that they fhould not be continued after the war. This fyltem of war loans, and of fupplemental loans, to pay the intereft of other loans, was certainly a fyftem which, if carried into private life, mutt lead the individual who adopted it to utter ruin; and if Minifters fhould introduce a fyfiem of bor rowing for the country, poffeffing the fame quality, and work up fuch unjuft and flagitious materials into their fyflem of finance, it was likely to pro duce the fame circa:, applied to a nation, as it would do if applied to an individual. He agreed with the Noble Lord, that the country poireffed the means of maintaining the war for twenty years, if neceffary, and it was a proud circumftance for the country, that the only queftion was how thefe means could be brought forward in the belt manner ? As to the manner, however, in which they might belt be brought forward, he differed materially from the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord wifhed at prefent to raife fupplementary loans, in addition to the annual loans of twelve millions. If he would compare the effeOs of railing thofe double loans with the effedt that would be produced by railing in one tingle loan the money he wanted, fecured on the Confolidated Fund, he would find that the latter mode would be every way better and let's expenfive. He thould enter into this comparifon on many different grounds. In the firtt place, he fhould confider the quantity of ca pital that in the courfe of the twenty years would be borrowed and created by the operation of thofedif ferent fy Items. If the Noble Lord confidered that a war expenditure of thirty-two millions annually was fufficient, as the War Taxes now produced twenty one millions, upon the old fyftem there would be only wanting a loan of el,even millions. Such a loan could have been eafilv provided for without adding materially to the preffure of the country ; but •if for fucceeding years of war no more than eleven millions of loan were required, the time would loon arrive when the excefs of the Sinking Fund would amply ftipply the intereft of future loans. The intereft of this lien of eleven millions would be only 733,0001. At the end of foutneen years, under the preant tern, the War Taxes would be completely abforbed, whereas under the obifyitern, without abforbing the War Taxes, the fame etre& might be produced.— But when the period thould arrive that theWarTaxes were entirely Aforbed in paying the intereft of thole War Loans and Supplemental Loans, - then the country would .be -reduced to the greateft ember raffment ; for then it 'would be neceffary t 6 Taife the' whole furn of thirty-two tnillions in the year by loan.; and this would be an operation that woyid be likely to ruin the money fyllem of the country as completely as even the accumulation of the Sinking Fund beyond its proper liniits. One of the greateft (Ideas that he taw in the fyllem propored was,. Ow it required the creation of a much larger debt to extricate ,ttfelf. He Mould next proceed to a teinparative Itatement of the debts that would be created by the different fvF tems, as conipareg with, the increafe of the Sinking Fund. He wocad readily allow that an increafe of debt might be counteracted , by a proportionate irt- 1 create of the Sinking Fund, but; under the fyttern now propofed, there would not be g correfponding increafe of the sinking .Fund. Had we burrowed eleven mil• lions in the ufual manner,.thcre would clearly have been an increafe of the Sinking Fund proportioned to the increafe of the debt. &planting the loans had been mired direttly in the proportion of the fonts calculated anneceffary at the different periods of. the war, it would in twenty years have only amounted to slo millions, if the money bad been railed in, the ordinary way, whereas it would amount to no Ws than 455 mullions in the mode that was now propefed; and altnough the debt was by this new fyftem in. created to the amount of 183 millions in twenty years, yet the Sinking Fund, fo f.r from increafinß, would fuffer a decrease of 644,0001. annually at the expiration of that period. Under the former fyflem it would have then borne to the debt the prnporti,m of a tenth, setae, ens, under the 1) ftem now preputed, it would be only a ferrenteenth. The Sinking Fund, under Ithe 'former fyftem, was to be fauna perpetu ally accumulating, until it had extingtrithed the debt; but under the prefent fylicm, after the year Ow, .. I. 1 . when it bad arrived to the maximum to which it amulet be allowed to arrive at, it would be a fund perpetu ally decreafing. He, therefore, confidercd that the plan had fo many ra-aical defects as not to promife any good ; but, on the contrary, to carry with it the incipient principles of our national ruin. He fhould nest confider the annual charge that this new fyflem would entail on the nation, as compared with what it would have been fobjea to under the old fyttem. The annual loans of eleven millions would have to quired an intereft of 733,0001. but when the Sinking Fond created with every loan, the total of annual charge that would have been additionally laid on the country for the next twenty years would have been 14,660,0001. Now, the interelt of thole Supplemen tal Loans only would, in the fame period, amount to i 4,266,0 0 l. it therefore •ppeared that thole Supplemental Loans (independent of the War Loans) would lay almost as great an annual burden on the country, as the whole of the Loans would, if levied direftly, and according to the old fyflem.-- This, however, was only one branch of the new 10 1 ton. for at the fame time that thofe Supplemental Loans entailed fo great an expence on the country, the other branch of the fyftem, the annual War Loans, would have completely abforbed the whole of the War Taxes. As a principal argument in favour of the adoption of the new (yam, the Noble Lord urged the advantage of relieving the country from the prefent preffure of its taxes. If it were poffible to obtain that relief without injuring the permanent relources of the country, or without doing any injuf tice to the ftockholders, who had lent their money on the idea that the fyflem would be 11i11 continued of railing taxes to cover the intereft of each fucceeding loan, every one mutt be pleafed at the country being fo relieved. If, however, it appeared that this mode would injure the permanent relources of the country, or that a method could be pointed out whereby all the effects which the Noble Lord had hoped from his plan, could be obtained without any fevete preffure of new loans, or without making perma nent thole taxes which were tailed only during the continuance of the war, he hoped that the Houle and the Noble Lord himfelf would confider fuch fuggeftions as worthy their molt ferious deration, and would not confider themfelves pledged to the adoption of a fyftem which appeared likely to produce ruinous canfecluences to the country. He did not objeCt fo much to the general principles laid down by the Noble Lord, as to the particularmode which he had pointed out for carrying them into execution: brit his objeltions to this mode were fo ftrong and fo radical, that he fhould feel himfelf wanting in his du ty if he hid not limed them. He trutted that it would appear to the Noble Lord himfelf, that the mode of borrowing by double loans was much more expenfive than the fyftetn of borrowing by one tingle loan. The whole fcheme of the Noble Lord went to defray the calculated expences of the war for 20 years, hut the country had refources enough to carry on the war far nineteen years, according to the 'old fyflem of railing Loans, And without mortgaging the War Taxes. What he should decidedly prefer to the prefent fyflem, would be the railing the eleven millions annually, chargeable in the firft place on the Confolidated Fund, and afterwards on the Sinking Fund, when the amount of it should exceed thole limits, which it was generally allowed that it would not be advantageous to the nation that it fhould pals. This fyflem of tupplementalLbans, although it was to come gently at fit ft; would loon be of enormoas magnitude. This little Gexikman, on its firft introduc lion to the world, was but fmall, fir fmall that no ferious injury could be apprehended from him—he amounted only to loomoo annually. But when he fhould gain a few years ftrength, when he Ihould arrive at fourteen years of age, he would bring an expence of more than fourteen millions. This fupple mental Loan was in finance whatit would be in an individual to go to Jews and ufurers to mile mo ney upon any toms to pay the intereft of a debt.— Initead of thole fupplemental Loans, he thould there fore propofe that whatever fum was wanting, with its natal.' Sinking Fund, fhould be borrowed in the re gular way, in one tingle loan, chargeable immediate ly on the Confolidated Fund, and ultimately on the excels of the Sinking Fund. With relpeft to the Sinking Fund,••there was another great quettion open to the confidetatiou Parliament, whether, when the time came that-it exceeded the loan for the year, it might not be fulpended in its farther operation during the petiod of war, and allowed to regain all its aflivity and energy as loon as peace fhould arrive. By this means-refources would be always found' in war, and yet the Sinking Fand mightgonn regularly,although with Tome interruption . ; to the defirnelion of 'the na tion* dot. It was univerfally allowed that it would nut be clearable that the national-debt fhould be Cud. denly and all at once extinguithed,and it would be then a filbjeft of • ferious confederation, - Whether the pro. grcfs of the Sinking Fund would not .he fufficiently rapid, even with the delays thalwar would Occafion . Now amount of the annual Sinking Fund was B,sts,oool. and by the Noble Lord's-ltarement, and, in . -pt•oiteding upon the old plan.' it wouli appear that, ttic produce of. that fund in 18 it, would be 11,14.0,600 - which would exceed the-amount of all the addititinal taxes which he would propofe for the next twelve years, if the prefent &Elm ccatinued to be aa:dAtpoli ; ancliif it' Was continued but f.l four yeati longer, it would enable the Noble Lard to put an end -to.the fyflem-of -War Taut ; and to carry on•the current .expences of each year by the Allthil fyitem of lames. . ,HeLeould -not accede to the necef. thy of taxing pofterity for prefent-oecafions, 'when every nectilary:purrife might be accomplifhed with. out it . ; for by paly folloWing the fifteen -already in operation, the Minifter would, in a very {hors period, be enabled to tell the enemyt; " Youfee I can carry on war without . contrating additional debt, fa long as your ambition 4 , r malice may compel. me to contiii4 the confliar It would enable the Noble Lord to fay, ". I can comman I 21 millions of War Taxes, and I remit the property tax to the people ; and if I am compelled t a it by war, I can again refume that tax." Why, therefote, &mild the Houle content to abandon a fy item . which had been tried'; and found effeautl, and which, aided bribe war taxes already adopted by the Noble Lord,.had placed this country in that proud lit:motion which, in a few years, would enable her tat remit the war taxes All, therefore, that he had.to do, was to contraft a loan for four years, and apply tha furplus produce of the Sinking Fund, to def:ay the intereft accruing thereon. 'The Noble Lore- .'• . . , . proceeM to take a view Of the new fyllem, as it was to °pet ate for the next twenty years, and contended that however clear the theory and (peculation might appear upon paper, yet it would not only be imprac ticable, but impoffible to purfue, and at all events Parliament Mould not legiflate upon it. He noticed. that the Noble Lord took up two grounds, whereon he built his (inseam. The one was, fuppoling the price of Stocks in the money market at 60, and the expenditure with all it, deduetions at 38,000,0001. Thefe, he argued, were very fallacious da ta ; f or f up . 1 pole a Minifter had reafoned of) a fimilar theory,and ia the fame way, when the expenditure was all millions, how would he find bimfelf mißaken pow. when, is the (pace of a Mort war, they had rifen to millions ? Or was he to omit all external connedions, and for ever to forego the aid of Allies, to keep alive his new theory ? He should, however, fo conduit hi: meafures with the nations of Europe, as to prevent the Country from beitig ifolated, or being confidered " Penitus toto dirtfos tube Britanoos." From thence the Noble Lord proceeded to tak e a view of the old fyllem, as followed by all former Mi. nitlers, and, comparing it with the new, contended that it was fimpler, fain., and fuperior. He infißed that the mode of railing loans on the furplua of the Sinking Fund was fallacious and dangerous, and that in the coo rfe of twenty years the lots on that Otte% would be no lefs than 29,000,0001. with the annexed fyllem of double I-ans. He arranged his arguments on this matter under five general heads, and occu pied a confiderable time of the Houfe with great perfpicuity, endeavouring to convince the Houle of the verity of his reafonings. In faEt, he was of oil. ninn that the total increafe of public debt would be, at the end of twenty years, no lefs than 196,000,0001. and that by the old fyllem, taking the Rate of the Sinking Fund at the uftial progreflive calculated data , hitherto purfued, there would be a decreafe or ex -1 Cation of debt to the amount of 93,000,0001. is twenty years, whilti by the new fyllem the increafe of debt would be 90,544,,0001. fo that the total . amount of difference between the old and the new fy Item would be the enormous fum of 183,54{,0001. Thefe points the Noble Lord nrged with confiderable zeal, and argued, that if we lhould unfortunately be . (addled with the theoretic fpeculatiOns contained in 1 the tables, fubmitted to the confideratitin of the Houle, we thould experience fallacy, diTappoint -1 ment, and ruin. His Lordthip then concluded with i moving the following . Refolution, premifum his with 1 that the debate upon it thould, for that night, be ad , journed. _ _ _ That it is propofed by the new Plan of ranee, that the An nual Exceffes of the prefent Sinking Fund, above the latereit of the Debt charged upon it, in every given year, thould be declared to be at tho difpufal of Pattiansent, and applicable to the Public Service. And it appears that the aggregate Produce of the bid Exceffes, between the years 1816 and tits 6, will meant in the whole to Eleven Millions One Hundred and Twenty-we Thou land Nine Hundred and Thirty-eight Pounds. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think it necessary, in the prefent inftance; to trouble the Houfe with more than a very few words, however he might differ with many principleS laid down by the Noble Lord, and however he might be difpofed to refill any attempts to argue from Amp. Lions in'themfelves• queftionable, he was yet willing to give his frank teftimony to the clear and pert - plc& ens, manner to which the Noble Lord had laid dowa thole principles; and argued from these affomptions: it was to prevent any mifcoiaftruaion abroad, to'pre vent the public from being led into mit - conceptions* to the riseafut es 'of finance he ihould have the' ho nour to propofe, by certain ftatements of the Noble Lord, fo much mare plaufible than convincing: 'As the molt conciie method of anfwering thofe fiat& mints, he limpid refer at once to what had fallen frOm him on a brnier night opt:4n that fullfa. lie had fpoken of the policy oflooking prolpeatvely to future contingencies, and though the Noble Lord admits of the expediency of looking forward and calculating upon the conjectural cafualties of future viciffitudes in the formation of a great financial Icheme, yet ths broad ground of the Nohle.Lord's objections to his (Lord Henry Petty's) Plan has been, the cenfurable pripciple of legiflating for the future. He'was charged with a prefumption he difehimea ; he did not pledge himfelf to provide for all changes that might here after occur—it was not within his feeble power, nor that of wirer men; to cakulato upon events anise/ere in the hands of Novi:mace, and' in the hand's of Paosoinzac I alone. He hod already mentioned the two diftina heads, upon which alone he Could hazard any calculation, as to a prorifion againft changes= one was under the head of Foreign Sublidies, and the other under that of the Increafe of the Price Of Labour, and any increase in the expenditure under the article Stores—and such he had propofed Ihould be, in Come degree, provided for by the Supplemen tary Loan. As to the failure of duties, Parliathent was to pledge itself to keep up thole duties. As to the criteria, of his Eftimates, he could not fix upon one More certain than that which he had fixed upon to form such criteria, namely, the grilling ex penditure, and he left it confidently to the Noble Lord, to find, if he could, a criteria fo fatisfaaory. The Noble Lord had complained that there had not hcen fuffieient provifton and forefight in legiOating upon the Subfidy Contingencies, and yet the great pfinciple of the Noble Lord's (Nation was, that of future legiflation. As to the Sinking Fund, he had Rated that it was i t the prefent period beneficial, and might be continued to be fo hereafter, by equalizing that Fund that to he added to now in the fame pro portion that it was to he taken from hereafter, where4s the Noble Lord would take from it now and add no thing to it hereafter, thus taking advantage of the be• nefict4 effect of the Fund, and leaving out all confi deratian of the operating cause. Upon the whole he should beasolt anxious to enter into a fuller fiatenout of what he conceived to be the merits of the preen( plan,,and • into a more ample refistatien of theobjet 'ions that had been urged againfl it ;it was not then the opportunity to do fo ; but he trolled as the fubjeand already , been deferred from left Wednefday to next Monday, that it was upon that • day to be brought under she difeuffion •of the Houfe, when be fhonld then, as he ,had upoh that evening, rteeeive with chearfulnefs and gratitude every fuggeftion that the Noble Lord, or his friends,' may think calculated to remedy any fuppofed errors, (apply any real de• feat, or 'ail the operation of any of thole good qua" lities that he flattered himfelf were to be found in the Plan he had the honour to bring forward. T 0 others he left the falfe !home that fhiunk from the det eaion of ignorance.' It should be his pride to receive with becoming gratitude the fanned information up on a .