Star. — London, England, 1816-06-26 00:00:00

77: ,~ _~., , . . .PARLI.4II/ENTARr PROCEEDINUS. HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE 25. Ilte Royal Aiwa was notified by Conimlssion to the St rro. gates' Bill, the Pape Cake Bill, the Holyhead Harbour Bill, the Bristol Small Debts Dill, and Sir Wni. Divorce The Commissioners were the LORD CHA NOE 1.1.0 R, the Marquis of WINCH ST FR, am) the Earl at SHATTISBURT T.fse Mutiny Amendment Bill, the Small Coal Bill, the Stone bottles Bill, the Appropriation till, and the Corntiee's Bill, were brought up from the. Haute of Coinino , ni by Mr. Bitoonas, Sir' JAMES OAA liAlll, and other Members, and read a first time. 'l'he Irish Lai:Mord, Bill, and the bush Grand Jury Indictment Bali, • were 11110 returned with the amendments agreed to. The Habeas Corpus Bill the Mint Machinery Bill, the Irish Customs Regulation Bill, the Bank Capital 13111, the Herlord College Bill, and Dyott's Divorce Bill, were read 1 third time, and passed. The Stage Coach Regulation Bill was retil a second time, and .committed !or to•morrow. The Earl of LAUDEIWALE urterwards observed with re spect to this Bill, that irivas a ridiculous 9 ec , e4 of legts.ation, and if they passed OA% Bill they might expect • t.) see a Bill brOught in to regulate the mode Of periti:l4 going along the •streets, as dang.fr might ari-e to others from their running .fast, or a Bill to prevent person. from drinking more thin a certain quantity, as persons in liquor were sort tintes agreat annoyance. Lord HOLLAND observed, that as legislation seemed to be going on at a furious rate, it might be of some service for his Noble Friend to ch-•ck it. Respecting the Charitable Donations Bill oa the table, Lord REDESDALE observed, the it contaiaed some very extraordi nary provisions which he did not believe their Lordships would accede to, particularly with regard to the Immense penaltirs ittt posed upon Trustees, who neglected duties which it would be ,isupossibl , for them to execute. The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed that the Bill was of the • most extraordinary nature, as It would be impossible for Trustees to execute the duties imposed upon them by it, and the penalty impiased fur neglect was most enormous. He intended to move to-morrow to postpone the Bill for sit months. The Amendments iu the Pillory Abolition Bill were agreed to on •the Report. CATHOLICS OF IRELAND. • The Earl o- DONOUGHMORE said, he had intended to give notice of a motion to bring on She discussion ot the Claims of the Rerun Catholics of rreland early in the next Session, seeing that the Pe titions on the table contained a dear atateincnt of ail that they complained ot ; that they distinctly pointed out, means of vaiciliation, and were expressed in re spectful and temperate linguage; and that therefore as the case stood, witt.o,it any renewal of Petitions, it was perfectly competent to any Noble Lord to bring on the discusai( n lie, however, bad since. come to the determin.i t ion not to give any substantive notice upon the sul , j-ct, as c;rcutuststices might in. . tervene to render such a notice unavailing, I)r the Catholics themselves might wish a different course to be pursued, or m;glit determine to atesent new Peti tions. He therefore dechned giving any specific notice ; • but ternm the Petitions on the table, as con taining the case of the R , man Catholics of Ireland, it was undoubtedly competent for a Noble Lord 1.9 bring on the discussion by a motion early in. the next Session of Parliament. Lord ROLLE expressed :t hope that the question would not be brought in in such a way as to out manceuvre the friends of the Established Church. The Earl of LAUDERDALE rose to defend the Established Church from any imputation of ma noeuvring that might tie inferred from what had been said by the Noble Lord who spoke last. Lord ROLLE said, he merely meant that the question might not be brought on at a period when many Noble Lords were out of town. The Earl of DONOUGHMORE said, it vemrd to be difficult to please the Noble Lord as to the time of bringing on the question; but he trusted it would . be brought on early in the Session. THIASUDY CONSOLIDATION DILL. The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the second reading of the Treasury Consolidation Bill. The Earl of DONOUGHMORE objected to the concealment which had been practised with .regard to the financial state of Ireland, it not having been at all intimated until now, that Ireland was inca pable of bearing her proportion of the burden of the Empire; and now the question was brought on four years sooner than by the Act of Union it would have been ; or he might say, the crisis had been brought on (the situation having been the same last year) five years sooner. This circumstance he could not but attribute to financial mismanagement. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said the necessity of the Bill was universally acknowledged in conserilence of the financial situation of Ireland, and considering the heavy expenditure of the war, it was rather mat ter for astonishment that such a measure had not become necessary at a still earlier period. As to what had been suggested at the time or the Union, R was evident that it was impossible, at that period, to anticipate fifteen years (.1 war at the rate of expen dictate which had taken place. It was the wish of Government to relieve Ireland as much as possible; if the Property Tax had been extended to Ireland, the present measure would not have been necessary 6;1 the period anticipated at the Union, but that be supposed the Noble Lord would not have c'esired. The Earl of DONOUGHMORE 'admitted that Ireland ought to bear burdens in proportion to those imposed .upon Great Britain, though he did not wish for the Property Tax, but what he objected to was, that the financial situation of Ireland had been con- • cealed till the war was ended and no more heavy taxes were wanted, and then when the accounts came to be wound up, she was declared to be bankrupt. Earl GROSVENOR objected to some of the pro- 1 visions of the Bill, particularly that regarding the appointment of a Deputy Vice-Treasurer with a sa lary of £l,OOO per annum, considering it inconsistent with that economy which ought to prevail. The Earl of DARNLEY also objected to this part of the Bill, and took the opportunity to express his hopes, regarding the Claims . of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, that the question would be taken up as a measure of Government. The Bill was read a second tirpe and committed fur 'Llursday.—Adjourned. • HOUSE OF COMMONS. , The SPEAKER stated that thk Royal Assent had been given, by %..ontmisstou, in the House of Lords that day to several Public aagd Erivate lidls.—(see Lords). The Glasgow Road ha l weq •through a Committee. Kelton received, and Bill ordered to be read a third time. The Hertford College Bill was mead a third time, and pawed. A new Writ was ordered for Newport. in the Isle of Wight, in the room of Mr. Leslie Foster, appointed Advocuh•Genera4 far Ireland. _ __ 'the Loan Charge Bill" the Claremont Estate Bid, and the Cehiaa Canal 1301, were read a third time and passed. '1 L. ElginMarbles bill. Report wu heaved, and taken into oonaideratiou.—To be read a third time tomorrow. ilis &AMU El. ILOILILair atomd for a Mao of Ws imuabarj rollers' Bill ' Mr. CALCRAFT objected to the measure. Mr. GORE LANGTON said this was not a time to lay addi. time! burthens on the country. • Mr. STEWART WOR I'I.EY contended that the- allowance proposed to be given was too great; and moved that the Bill should be 14 ad a third time this day *tee months. General THORNTON supported the amendment. Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL stated, that there were five Coroners in the. County with which be was connected, and be never had beard of any application from any one of them for an., increase.' allowance. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, no man could travel for less' than ninepence a tulle. The charge ;which this measure would occasion had been much misrepresented It would not amount to a farthing a pound in any one County, and in many CoUnties it would not amount to one fourth part of a farthing. The only County from which Petitions had been 'presorted against the measure was Somerset; and that had been owing to a mlsre pre.t.ittation„ jhat it 'would occasion a charge of .6'4,000 a-year, whereas it would not add £6OO a•year to the Rates. Mr. DI Cla N.-ON contended it wOilld add Je1,200 a-year to the Pates of SoincrAet 'hire. The House then divided—For the tiard reading, 40—Against it, so—Majority, The Rat was then read a third time, and passed. Sir JOAN COXE HIPP! s' EY guve'noice, that next Session he should move for 'ewe to bring in a Bill to prevent the Irregu lar celebration of Banns of Marriage. .stritoanv. The ATTORNEY GENERAL moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Practice of Surgery throughout the United Kingdom. He stated that the object in bringing in the Bill now, merely was, that it might be printed, and then lie over till next Session.—This Bill is to prevent persons acting as Surgeons who cannot produce a certificate from the College of Surgeons.—lt was read a first time, and ordered to be printed. , • . I . pe tii o e;p:ii ; it t libe hovieve „Pso r, as ma :sort were. by Corooeittiens, they could net ed' IL any Angry religious tcelingi bad was mine and ;nor,, cenviticed of the necessity of Emancipation o.and with the conditions which it might be thotight advisible to annex to the boon, the final settlement of the question ought not to be delayed. To this final settlement the rennet of the Honourable Beronet could not fail to contribete. Sir HENRY PARNELL wished to communicate to the House some information received by him from the Catholic Prelates of Ireland. They had projee-ed of their own accord, that instead of the present• mode of nominating Bishops, they should in future be elected by the Dean and Chapter. This mode would assimilate the discipline of the Catholic Church of Ireland to ell it of s•-verel'other Catholic Saves, and would bring it,hadt to the purer ages of the Cs. t olio Chutch.. This plairof election by the Defto and Chaptrr was the law for :navy aoes'of the Ceris tian Church; and had been adopted by the Church of France ? and, in our own 'patine of proyitors. The Catholic - Clergy in making this .preposel theraselv‘s. had receded from their resolutions of 1698, in elicit they declared the inexpediency of any ellanre. Lord CASTLEREAGH apprehended that the qiiestion, whether Bishops should be elected by the Dean and Chapter, or, as latterly, by the See oil Rom?, was one with which the Parliament could not meddle, without departing from the rule which they had always laid for themselves, of avoiding all in. terferenee with the Catholic religion. This was a .question between the Clergy of behind and the See of Rome, and not between the Catholics of Ireland and Parliament. However much it might be wished that the election of the Bithnps of Ireland should approximate as much as possible to our own, he could not consider such a mode of election as a sub stitute for the security proposed to be taken. He conceived the House were greatly indebted to the Honourable Baronet for the pains he had taken in collecting the information contained in the Report ; and with respect to which he had given the Honour able Baronet every facility in his power. The body of information was so exteLsive, that the labours of Ilse Committee were likely. to be attended with sue cess, They would carry conviction into every mind, that the British Legislature never contemplated the proposing any regulations which were ,not thought necessary both in Protestant and Catholic State:. ' This information could not fail to do Read ia the case of those whose minds had been led away and disturbed by misrepresentations and false statements on this subject. Those who hereafter opposed the conditions must do it from an indispositioneo a liberal connection with the State. He was extremely happy to see that they were likely to have on their table a Report founded on so many documents of the greatest authority. Mr. HORNER could not help congratulating; the Catholics on what he heard 'with so great satis. faction, the sentiment; delivered by the Right Ho. nourable Gentleman ( Mr. Cannin7), who had lately acceckd to the Niitiistry. Ile et raid no: help inferring from the manner in which, as well as th.s occasion when these sentiments were deliiered, that they might look forward with better h( pes and expectations than . they had ever yet had any reason to entertain of a speedy settlement of the great question of Catholic; Emancipation.—(Hear, hear).- -When he coupled those sentiments which 'the Right Honourable Gen. tleman had just delivered with the circumstance of his recent accession to the Administration, he felt con vinced that the Right Honourable Gentlemap would not have expressed his increased sense of the impor tance of a final settlement of the question, unless he had previously come to a distinct understanding on the subject with the other Gentlemen who composed that Administration.--(Hear, hear).—And he felt this conviction the more strongly when be called to remembrance the very manly grounds on which the Right Honourable Gentleman stated' some time ago that he had declined acceding to the same Admini. stration.—(Hear, he'ar).—He hoped, therefore, that the Right Honourable - Gentleman had not delivered his sentiments on this occasion merely as a Member of Parliament ; that in the next Session the question would not come before the House as usual, merely in consequence of Petitions from the Catholics, but that it would be taken up in the only way in which it ought to he taken up, namely, that the measure of Emancipation would be formally and officially brought in by these who held the most prominent place in the Councils of the Country, and that they would no longer have to witness that trifling which, year after year, had been displayed—(llear, hear), — of men filling the highest situations of the Govern. ment, holding out this as a measure of the most vital importance—declaring that no measure with regard to Ireland was likely to be attended with any good effect, if it was not carried—that Ireland could not 'otherwise be tranquillized—and yet leaving a mea sure of such vital importance to the country, to be brought furward, not by themselves, but by those who could not have the same weight with themselves, and whose efforts could not therefore be expected to be attended with the same success—(Hear; hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Gentleman had thought pro per to allude to another topic, which had little or no 'contlection•with the present subject—for what reascn it . was not so easy to see—the situation of the Protes tants of the South of France. Who had ever said that that Protestants were persecuted at present in the part of France which the Right Honourable Gentle man had mentioned ? But did he take urn himself to undo all the evidence which had been given of the existence of the most severe persecution of the Pro testants in another quarter of France. No one ever said, that there had been any persecution in the De. partment of the Gironde, but in the department of the Gard.—(hear, hear.)—Neltber had it been said that the persecution was carried on by the French Government, but by the lower orders of Catholics against their Protestant fellow-subjects. Yet though the Government had not themselves carried on the persecution, it was stated,. and justly stated, that it bad not done its duty in taking those measures which would have put a stop to it —(Near, /maw.) Mr. CANNING explained. HIPPISLEY said, that he was convinced the effect of the Report would be favourable to the object of which he had been the strenuous supporter, a concession to the Catholics. 'The claims of the Catholics could not be urged on the ground of right, but OA the ground of expediency theymere ixrisibtiole• • .. , fit ` :r i) uf ermie cot web Pellueirteen eurnmitt ,glee . the • :1:141114.141111"• was read the c sa: 411111. tha The lriai DA Return TIR a a toms went have happened 11 Sir HOLM SUMNER filmed als third reading 'existed. He was were Bill niresmecitir of Enter ^L, Per CATHOLIC SVMECTS. Sr JOHN COX lill'elSLEY, in laying before the House the Report of the Committee appointed to inquire into the measures adopted by different States, in order to reg.:ate the connection between Sce of Rome an.'. Catholic subjects, con ceived that that Repot c could not butt be attended with the most beneficial eflccts in Ireland. Those wlto had endeavoured to int:dead the Catholics of Ireland this subject had unfortunately been hitherto but too successful. It would be seen, that in the States which colistitived the great mass of the poPti l.tion of Luvepe i the Crown, directly 'Or indirectly, xarcisad an influence in the appointment of Catholic liaops. In the election by Chapters, there was no justayce in which the Crown did not ,exercise an in fluence. The practice which prevailed in Ireland was well known to differ from what generally pre vailed both in Catholic and Protestant States. Mr. CANNING was desirous of taking the pre sent opportuvity of saying a few words, respecting the course taken by the Honourable Baronet. Having been one of a great majority, which on a former oc casion pr vented the purpose of the Honottrasle bd. ronet from being carried into execution, he was de- Isirous of chewing the difference which existed between that period and the present. Then themeasure pr,o posed would have had the effect of impeding the progress of; Bill before the House ; and rather than delay a Bill of such consequence in its progress, Le had.no hesitation in declining the information which "the Honourable Baronet had it in his power to give. But on the present occasion, the Honourable Baronet could not have a warmer supporter than himself; nor had he the least hesitation in saying farther, that the information contained in the Report wak neces sary to the having the question fully understood ; and it ought to be fully understood before it was carried. For deeply. as they were all interested in the final settlement of the question, that settlement could only be valuable in so far as it was founded on the firm conviction and cordial assent of all parties. ; The Catholics of Ireland had not only objected to the modifications and conditions which the House might wish to annex to the boon sought for by the Catho lics ; but it had been argued by them, that the pro. posing such conditions was a singular proceeding in this country, and that Catholics were subjected to no such conditions in no other country on earth. This erroneous belief was but too often' accompanied by another, that no two religions could exist together in perfect tolerance and harmony. He was anxious that this question should be now finally settled, not on the romantic notion, that with it every feeling of animosity would at the same time be settled ; but because he believed that the question was one, with. out the settlement of which no .other evil could be radically cured ; it was not only an evil in itself, but it was made the pretext for many more, and it ag gravated them all; and the settlement of the ques tion must be the introduction to and accompaniment of every measure leading to the perfect tranquilliza tion of Ireland —(Hear, hear).—The documents ap pended to the Report, would *hew that the conditions which had been proposed In this country; fell far short of what every other country, whether Catholic or Protestant, thought it necessary to adopt for its safety. It had happened to him to be a few weeks ago in a. part of Europe, stated in many publications which he had read to contain the seeds of hitter per secution of the Protestants, on the part of the Ca. audio. He found no marks of the existence of any such persecution; but he had found what was so little known in this country, that Protestibts were not only tolerated, but in every respect on an equal footing with their Catholic fellow-subjects, and even seemed to have more than their proportion of honours and employment. He alluded to the department of the Giroade, which contained a population of 514,000, of whom the Protestants amounted to 30,000, or one seventeenth of the whole. Of the seven Members of the Chamber of Deputies, returned, by. the De partment, one was a Protestant. Of the five. Coun cillors of the Prefecture, one also was a Protestant. Of 21, Members of the Municipal Administrations, five were Protestants. In another Council at Bour deaux, seven were Protestants. In a procession which took place • while he was at Bourdeaux, the Archbishop of Bourdeaux was first in order, and he Was immediately followed by a Protestaot Clergyman. The banker to whom he had been recommended, had received a patent of noblesse from the present Go vernment ; and of four other patents bestowed in the Department since the accession of the Government in question, three were to Protestants, and not to Catholics. All this existed without creating 'any convulsion, or subjecting the Protestants to any in human perateutionk It might indeed be said, that - 1 A ant he hnpecl t'ie time was not Far distani wh en would be atten led with complete succss. i, . -. I LICIT TRADE IN BLAVE.. The return to Mr. WiLseuronce's moti on of WO nesday last w is laid nn the table. Mr. WILBE RFORCE observed, tha t contid,fn the great imp() •atic,• of the fact whi c h h e h ad brow,' il, to view, as aff irding a presumption of a Caitsidet4l, illicit importatinn (.f Slaves into the Island of L iqui ,,, -' he w.is surprii:d th . tt no attempt had bee n madtll expLiin it. The p iper was ordered to be printed. • own:is:A. .. ~ Mr. W. SMITH said, therewas a paper or evi i derable importance which bad'been ltid befor e t h e House, respecting the 4Tl•inagement of some est a% y Leer 41 in tae Colonies which had belonged to t h e Dutch, hi Commissinners appointed by the Tr:lscry, (if ititici lie was one. Wanto7l and frivol ms chn.tes hai he t i brought a,gainit thii ComraissinN and the coirespol tlc t oa , ‘t c iil ed o. l:I c!l• f l'''' r d tqkctri place with th e T reasur te rctorn, howeve r , he dilrilt ,: Move) see a letter from Cuvtanor Gorien, 'dated Beaks, F. 5, 1812 to the 'fre.isury, in win di thor chop' were firs' broached. As he wish) the cot:dotterel Commissioners to be :.everely investigated, he h t e m this ktter wad t:c laid an the•table. Mr. aOULBURN said, the letter in qnestioet a not in the Colonial Office. N!r. A. BROWN hoped the paper mightbri a 4 before the House. It would be seen, that oadi r d. n:anagement of the Cumrnissioners, an ',st alk which Government had been offered £60 , 10 aitt, had been quite tvro..itrctive. The 11. m. was proceeding to make sot: further elLertaiz, when he was called ti) order by The SPEAK ER—who observed that there war no mntinn before the House. Mr. W. SMITH said, lie must be permitted ro say thus much, that ever:" item ill ZIV.: sccuunt o f the Comtnissioners wcutct be justified. ►ItSSIONAItII:S. Mr. BUTTERWORTH said, that as some severe reflections had heen reported to have ben made om :t very deserving tridy or num by the lionouraMe Member for Stocktnidge (Mr. Barham), he wished to make a few remarks respecting them. 'l'he SPEAKER ohwrved, that it was irregular, even when a question was before the Honse to rein to a former dehnte; but as there was no quealln, it was still more irrtitialr, Mr. BARHAM regretted that the rules of the House did not permit him to give the explanatioa ►which the Hon. Member seemed to cal! for. L'TEI.WOkTH said, that as he shogli conclude with a motion, the H. , use could prohablf all-lw him to nvtic? some obs.rrvations. The tiII:AKER observed, Oa: as there was sin notice of dr: niozion on the paper, the attendance was not such is migbt b,, desirable. Mi. BUTTER. WOR'VH then gave notice of a motion tt►.morrox•, for en' . iCtS of the dispatchei re. ceivcd by the Government from the C4-nies, re specting the proceedings of the missionaries in the two last year:. AT:IMIS OF IMPRISONMENT. Mr. BENNETT rose, to move for an account of the persons confined in the King's Bench Prison. It was to be remembered, that in the last Session, a Committee of the House had sat to examine into the state of the prisons, which Committee had teem. mended that a commission sh-mtd be appointed to inquire into the state of the blArshalsea and fleet, wia that it should be recommended to the Judges to . investigate and remove the abuses existing in teat prison. At the beginning of the Stnion, when he had made inquiries as to this commis:inn, it was said that k had been appointed, but that it had not tile; proceeded with its investigation. Since that, though the Session was so near its termination, he had heard no more of it. As to the King's lkirch, it was said that much had been done to reined the abases. Now, though, something had hoea (!tn;e, ycz n•ithing effectual had been done. It wouid hardly be he , lieved, that the Marshal had derived £BOO a year from a per tentage on the beer drank in the prison, in defiance of the Act of Parliament ; and £2510 a year from the rules ; that was to say, this sum of money was taken trona the pockets of debtors, to the injury of their creditors, for the benefit of the Marshal. He could not imagine that those abuses could continue, unless the Marshal was suppartel by some person of high authority.—(llear, The paper which he had moved for respecting the Petworth Hou - ,e of Correction, would shell that the abuse of the system of solitary confinement, had exceeded any thing which could h a ve b.-en imagined. For the crime of vagrancy a person had been subject to this terrible punishment for thirteen months, ole for seven months, and several for four months. As to the wretched woman, whose case he bad before mentioned, he had no doubt that her insanity had hen produced by the solitary confinement, as she was rear declared to be not insane. Among the cases men. tioned in the Return was, that of a man who had bete kept in solitary confinement tree menths fox oe. 'tidying a pheasant's egg ! That is to say, the mis:aal.le being who fell under the sentence, was kept 23 hozaa out tit the 24 within four small walls, %vita ' out ;soy kind of. employmeat, eit..:er entirely opea to the air, or quite excluded from light, aed the crime for which this punishment was iniiicted, was t'.7: breaking of a pheasant's egg. He thought it seas the duty of the person with whom the power resided, to stn i;ce out of the Commission the Magistrates who hid so concurred is this sentence. The Honourele 4;entlenian then moved for an account of the number of persons centined in the King's Bench Prison on ' 24th of Jun), 18i3, and of the greatest number confined in Coat Prison, between the 21th ut j*,:et's 1815, and the 21th of June, 18iti. Mr. H. ADDING TON said, the C , rnm:ss' , l wisich lel been appointed had not yet made its Re port, but considerable progress had been ma;le is :':e investigation. When the Report of the Committee had heNl laid on the table last Session, no motion had been made on the subject, but the Secretary of State for the Hume Depattment had thought it his duty to recommend the appointment of a Committee, and ne had also laid a copy of the Committee's Re port bcfore the Chief Justice of the King's Bonzlr, who, it was presumed, would titre the steps which were necessary with respect to the p rison mere imme diately under his jurisdiction. Mr. BURRELL hoped he should be allowed to say a few worth to do etiN oy the impression