Star. — London, England, 1804-07-03 00:00:00

- - ties. acqttired by the villoties or A nature. palm nn- — A perfon from the Exchequer prefented an account precedented in the Hittory cit the world, feu obi Of certain rums of money, that had been g ranted. be NIOT,C carefully preferred. marlitant to addieffes of the Houlk, and which bad Sir J. SINCLAIR wilbed to know what woold e mot bets made good by l'arliaent. - the probable amount of the aid required for the pu t . •FTAIRS ON- ultimo. pore fpeeified ? On the order for the third reading. of the Itilh Mr. ROSE, in reply. mentioned that according to Cullosesi mid Exeirs Duty Bill. .. the ellimate anft plan of the Petitioners, the expence Colonel HUTCHINSON called the attention of would be about 16,0001, It WAS no. however, pro the Houle to the prefent enormous and growing debt poled to call on the Houfe for a vote of more than of Ireland, which was now not lefs than fifty-three one half the rum for the firft year. millions. He adverted to the decline of the produce Mr. FRANCIS was defirous of knowing what of te taxes, ad entioned, as an alas mitig,proof was the nature of the q uities a nd'cures al of h i s affertion, n th a m t on a fum of two millions and a luded to, before the Houle confented to a vote to fo half of tales the defalcation had been upwards of large an amount as +6,0001. i three hundred thourand pounds. The manufaftores Sir. WINDHAM, before fuch a vote pared, of Ireland at this moment were almoft annihilated. thought it highly incumbent on the Houfe to be ap- The Provition Trade of the Country hadruffered a moll pri(cd of the manner in which the money was to he lamentahe decrea% and every other refoorce had applied, as well as the conduit of the whole eltabliflo declined in a titian proportion; vct, under all there ment of the Marcum. For the mere ereftion of (beds dileouraging circtimliances, the debt of Ireland had to cover there curiorities 16,0001. was a very large encreafed to the amount of about nine millions within fum. the lett year. What, on the other hand; he conjored The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHILQIER CoHoule to confider, had been tbe fituation of this raid. that it was aro merely for the reception of there Country during the farce period. With manutaftures eurinfities, thlt the application was 'glade to the flomilhing almoit beyond all former example ; with a Houfe. The grant, if tained, would be employed 1 commerce bounded only by the limits of the world ; in the general improvement and extenfion of the whh r‘fources almolt inexhaullible, the public debt Marcum, fo as to tender it more adequate to the re ef this Country, witl io the Lift year, had not much I ception of new entiofities fimilar to there adverted exceeded twelve millirw. It was needier' for him to, or to loch others as accidental circumftances, or to enlarge oa fo extraordinary a contral. Such a individual liberality, might from time to time afford. featement as connected with Ireland was one which Mr. SHERIDAN was by no means difpored to be was alma afraid to look to without feelings of oppme the . Petition, but thought. that if fuels a li the utmoft pain mad anxiety. A Right Honourable beral grant Was afforded, the public ought in return Gant:man oppofite (Mr. Tater) bad, however. to have greater faciiity of accefa to the curio fi ties • under all there difcnoraging circumftanees, intiraot- which the Mufeum contained. ed his intentir ato rare the taxes of Ireland thiu Mr. W. SMITH was friendly to rhe a general ob year. moth than twelve hundred thoufand pounds jea of the Petition, as it had been explined by the above their former amount. He begged leave to return Chancellor of the Exchequer. He confidered it ra. the Right Hottourable Gentlemen his fincere thanks her difcreditable to the national chara, er. that fo fur theattention paid to the fuggeftions rerpeftingthe much had for a century pall been done for other no impolicy dam additional tax on Salt, and the newtax throat objeas, while In little had been done for the on Freehold!. Both there tares were abandonedond encouragement of the arts. In affording the grant he was heartily glad of it, for he was firmly perfuad- propofed, the Houfe would only be doing what they ed that as the one would have proved molt ruinous, ought kng ago tn !Live done. Co the principle of the other was altogether uncontli- Mr. BANKES did not oppore the Petition, but tutional. He wither! that Ireland Ihould bear its was for referring the harmers to a Committee. fair proportion of the expence incurred in defence of all Sir W. YOUNG laid a few words in favour of the that waste:oft dear to both countries, and he was the Petition.—Ordered to lie on the table. more anxious that every thing Ihould be done which The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thould promote that union of feeling, and that vipour then moved, that the plan and eftimate of the goat of.exertion, on which the fafety, the independence, dians of the Mufeum be referred to a Committee ; and the dignity of the whole fo effentially depended. this motion was put and agreed to. If ever he expelled any advantages to refult from the ADDITION To THE CIVIL LIS T, AND PAYSTENT or Union, he always anticipated the inmate of this ARREILIS• Union ac its greaten bleffing. On this principle, he The Houfe having refolved itillf into a Committee thought it his duty on the prefent occallon to enter of Supply. his fitlemn protelt againft ado trine which had been The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER lately promulgated, that the Reprefentatives for Ire- begged leave to call the anemia° of the Committee land were not to interfere in the local concerns of to the Rate of the Civil Lift. It would appear, from this country, and that, on the other hand, the Eng- the reports of the iwo preceding Seffions, that a coo l& Reprefentatives ought to pay no attention to the tide' able exceeding had accrued in that department local concerns and intereas of Ireland. Whatever of the national expence, an exceeding which was reliance he placed on the wifdom and patrintifm of principally to be confined to three heads, namely, thufe of his countrymen who had a feat in this Hoak. Foreign Miniflei s, his Majefty's Houfehold, and oc he looked for the united wifdom of all the Reprefen. cafinnal payments. Nothing was more definable than tatives of every part of the Empire, for the full be- to equalize the expences of the Civil Lill with that refit of all the interefts and concerns which it tin rum which was appropriated annualy to the dif braced. The Right Honourable Gentleroan, to charge. of them, and it would be for the difeetn. whom lie bad abeady alluded, had two pond ao- mint of Parliament to eftablilh fome new arrange rangements in view, for the removal of the financial mcnt for that porpore. There. Parliament no of the mode of collating the revenue of Irelands and obje&ion that the arrears of the Civil Lill Ihould the ellablithment of plans for retrenching exiling ex- have been liquidated in the year atm, he trufted pence'. Both of there were, doubtlefs, very laudable there would be no reluitance in the Houfe to a fi and defirable, but if the Right Honourable Gentle- milar vote of this day. Much of that debt had man looked to no other means of ameliorating the arifen out of the circumftances of the war, much con Mien of It eland, he would find himfelf griev- of it arofe from the internal late of the court -0..14 deceived. Much more than this was neccffitry try, and a very confiderable portion of it proceeded to be dent to render the peot.le of Ireland not only from expellees of ttationary, printing, and a variety more able, but more willing to bear their fair pro- of other articles, with which the Civil Lift Ihould portion of the national expenditure. He lamented not, in jullice, be chargeable. Mmy of thofe ma fincerely, in common With many others in the Houfe, cies, among which were law charges, and the et that an exclulive a dminifiration had been formed, pence of maintaining the police. he willed to mad and that more individuals had not been, at prefent. ter, and to provide for by a feparate climate. employed in his Majdly's Councils, from whole in- amounting in the whole to about 135,0001. The terell, and whore fervicei, the moll beneficial effeas contingencies of the Secretaries of States offices, the might have been expetted. Lamenting this, how- additional expence of Meffengers, and the item in ever, he could not help addraing a few confider- the accounts, denominated Extra-Extraordinaries, ations on the prelint fanation of Ireland to the Right all contributed, in a very confiderable degree, to the Himourabk Gentleman oppofite, now at she head of creation of the arrears. It was his intention to move his Majefty's Councils. When he recollefted the the Houfe, that a fum fufticient to liquidate the Right Honourable Gentleman's long experience, whole debt Ihould be granted to his Majdly ; and and that during his firmer Adminiftration the Pen- he further meant to move, that a pofitive grant of pie of Ireland had received many important privi- lonic reafonable addition Ihould all() be given to hoes, he trolled that he would endeavour to turn wards maintaining that particular branch of the Ci the powers of his gigantic mind to the fubjea of frith vin Lie, known by the name of the King's Houfe. affairs. When she people of Ireland were called on hold. That fuch namable addition was extremely to (ottani great additional burdens, it was but fair aeceffitiy, he was perfoaded every Gentleman mull that every exertion fhould be made to place the pest admit, who reeollefled the great tire which took pie in a fituation to follain there burdens with the place in all the articles of life within the lag twenty halt poffible harsifhip. A fubjen of this magnitude yeas, which may very fairly be calculated at nearly he was fenfible could not be entered into this fefFon; fiery per cent. It was the anxious detire of thole and that during the teeth the Right Hottotieable; persons wno were chat ged with the ruperintendance Gentleman would torn it easefully in his mind, and of the hourehold, not to call upon the public ; but endeavour as foon as poffible irr the nett feffion to wilt all the economy they endeavoured to introduce &boat to the fair and candid confederation of the into the management of it, they found it impailihle Hunk the iduit of his incantation and reflee.ion. to rethia it to the fum that was annually allowed The Honourable Gentleman. after a few mere ob- for it. This exceeding, however, was not ditenver fervatinna on this point, paid to the Government of able in every item of the Civil Lilt ; in the Penfion Lord Harelwielte come very hanMotre compliments Lift, for ;tamer., there was a ded , i!tion of ro,cDol. fur his humanity and moderation. He wilbed, how- per annum, as all the charges upon it, at prefen , , ever, that the fiber' yof the people of Ireland Mould only amounted to ne,oool. a year infteaci of oe,oool. not depend on the good condo& of any Governor, the fum let apart eighteen years ago for that ['arum however refpeelal , le his charaller. What he defined In branch of it. In the film which he Ihould move V A•, that the teal fituation of Irelarai Ihould be fully for by way of addition, lie meant to include about coi.fidereJ, that it• evil. Ihould be removed, and that font. that it was propaed to give as compenfa thole castles Ihould b e done a w a y w hich gave even a tiun to Foreign Mini:tett. about to retire, and which pretext for loch meaftnes as the fapention of the was to be proportioned to the falaries they had hem , Habeas Corpus A'l and the ellablithment of Martial coiner received. It was within the knowledge of the Law. The Hollow •ble Gentleman touched on this Houk that her Majeay received 58,::.:.c.1. out of which and apparent zeal for the theyeme branches of the Royal Fay received, as fubjeft with much feeliilt bets interett. of Id, coo at) men. te sa ns . u r n have ellablithment., n00t..1. a year each. The SPE 3 + KER again put the qiieflion for the Ile would prop , ,te a turthcr addition to that of 20001. third reading, but it being found that one chafe re- with the design that the allowance of the Princelces quire.' a ltera.i .1.. farther proceeding los. t::...:1 was whole ()mold be amount ine orcaledf the aJzo Ci l. to eac Litth of them. preli The put off till tu-snot t.,w• Civil WAS at m 9 75,0cz I. hot which wa. reduced by the payment of fees to 9: 1,0-....1. making ass annual deficiency of 5.4,c44.1. It was t.i. intention in pay the esiqing debt, and to grant a:, amival addition to it of 60,0001 lie cot.cladcd ails moving tii.it a fum not ex ceeding 5 9 1,8131.35. told. tin •tild be granted to his hla;aly tor the pasmcnt of t:,c debt of the Civil Lill. bir. 13,1:`4.1:5 raid that is was generally expelled when the last a, i i..cao.o v:a. waste to Pathamcnt all TIS/4 att;stow. Mr. G. ROSE preiented a Pctittnn from the Ma. nagers of the hltactim. praying for all Gam the ku.,,le to t i able them to prnvidc buildings for the tectoton of Cif taiai Jr l uw b la c .riofrica by 11. e viftorio. of our Lravc troops In Egypt. He that lo heal , tLey had be:liptcfcrt%.: tr, m the inc I income.. I I 111, ne.atilet tAldcf I nyormry rhelter, but at (ma. nut to be foppoled t..at v4:tutlik at;tlqui• fur a dircharge of the debts of ille Civil Sift, that I duties which re c apwe plicable M the rupees of the meafures would have been taken to tpreaent the re- I Civil L and aof the other it:Sources which were cureence of a . fimilar applicatioe in fuure, by guard. applicable in aid of that fund ? iog aga in(( the accumulation of arrears. This effect The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER be might, in his judgment, have been produced; if not gan by complimenting the faie and parliame . ntary altogether, by attending to the provifions of Mr. manner in which his Hon. Foiend had famed his oar. Burke'. Bill, from which he was ferry to obferve an nions. The principal point upon which his Hon. alrn.ft total departure for many years back. The Friend feemed to hefitate as to the propriety of con- Honourable Member thought that fuch an applica- earring in the propofition before the Houle was this, thin as the prefent, which went to make a Vermaneat that the time of war was not that which ought to have advance in (the amount of the Civil Lift ought to been related for an application of this nature; but in have been accompanied by fome propolition upo* the anfwer to this objeatima he would fay, that it was fame principle as Mr. Burke'. Bill, which Ihould become neceffary to do one of two things—either to ferve to regulate the expenditure of that Lift. For refute to the Throne an adequate allowance, or to ftsteen years previous to the year- leo:, the average break in upon the efiabliffiment of Royalty ; and he of the Civil Lit - Debt was not more than &o . did not believe that there was a man who, in any cir annually, bnt for the two tart years that average had cumftances. would.. Merely for a laying of so or trebled. The caufe of this inmate he particularly 6o,000l: content to en abridgment of tram dignity wiffied to have explained. The Honourable Member whicliformed a limitary part of the Monarchy, and then proceeded to animadvert upon feveral items of therefore forined a necelat y part door Conflitution. the account upon the table. • The rums tinder the This, however, muff be done, or elle we mull; goon head of fpecial *vice for die laft two years (truck fuffering the debt of the Civil Lift to accumulate in him as rather extraordinary The 40,0001. for time or war, and thus lay the neceffay .of making ,Foreign - Minifters, he thought. fhould be fpecifically good the payment of it in time of peace; but he accounted for. He did not like this way of lumping would fubmit it to the judgment of the Houfe and it. It might lead men to conjefture that, it was made the public, whether it was not better, even amidft the a cloak for the application of the public money to preffure of war, at once to provide for the difeliarge improper purpofes. At the fame time that he ex. of this arrear, and alfu to guard, as much as poffible, prefred a with that the Houfe and the public Ibould againft the tecurrence of fuels debts, than to adopt be fatisfied upon this point. he begged it to be under- either of the alternatives he had referred to? To Rate flood that, far from defiring to abridge the allowance the dilemma in which his Hon.' Friend's oblation to our Fambalfaclors, he entertained a hope that fuck would place the Houle, was, he was fetiified, quite. allowances would be augmented, fo as to confult the enough en infure their affent to the pro h ichpofition had for he haitsd rank and fuitable accomtnodatian of our diplomatic the h onour to fubmit, a propofition w agents. Under the head of the Lord Chamberlain's object the fupport of that increafed expense of the Office, and part'cularly with refpea to the Board of Crown, which arofe not from any difpofition to prodia Works, he obferved a confiderable incrcafe beyond gality or extravagance, but from that enhancement in former years. For the augmentation of the allow- all the necellkry articles of life which had taken place lines of prefents. &c. to Foreign Minifters within the fence the revenue of the Civil Lift was hat fixed, and laft year. he could not conceive a reafon. He meant of ery individual in private life mull be fen t that kind of allowance granted for executing Con- fibleTh e arrangement he pmpofed. it mull be ob ventions, Treaties. &c. as there were none fuch that vious to any difpaffionate man, had no view to any he recollated. Yet this Cum mate, ially exceeded the advance in the quantum of magnificence, or the in expenditure for a fimilar purple in the year pre- dulgencies which Ihould belong to the R.y al Family, vious to the left war, when fo many Conventions and as the only intention was to enable that illuftriotis fa- Treaties with Foreign Powers were concluded. The mily to maintain the rank which, according to the exceft, might, perhaps, have proceeded from prefents grant of 1786, it was admitted they ought to hold. to the Barbary States, but of this be walled to be As the only effect of the propofed addition swath! be informed. In the compenfation to perft - ns for lots of to equalize their revenue to the change of circum offices there was an advance of to,oool. which made fiances which had taken place, he was confident that up for the to,oool. redualion of the Penlien Litt, there was not one of the conftituents of that Houle,, which had been noticed by his Right Hon. Friend, who would not confider that ceconomy extremely mita and therefore there was no Caving to the public. The placed. which would. under fuch ci:cumftances, call additional expellee in the offices of the three Secreta- upon his blajelly's Family to retrench their heceffery ' ries of State, which was not leis than 77,0001. ap- expeoces, or refute Aim to the propofition in debate. peered to him particularly to require explanation.— particularly when it was recollated that the Civil One of•thofe Offices was no doubt new, and lie did Lift was but a commutation which his Malay had, not mean to contend that it was unneceffitry in war, accepted on his acceffinn to the throne, for a large but upon the return of peace, whenever it Ihould ar- hereditary revenue. When it was confidereoc d how , rive, he hoped it would he done a w ay. The Hon. lon g his Majefty had, hapoily for this country; cu- Member Rated his approbation of the propofal of pied the-throne, for a peririd longer almoft than any his Right Hon. Friend to tiansrer to another fund Sovereign to be found in our hiftory ; when the thofe charges which did not properly belong to the growth of the revalue. which h: had futtendeted in Civil Lift. There was another item in the Report exchange, war taken into confideration, be was rure on the Table upon which the Hon. Member confer- it would be admitted, that a call upon Parliament feerthat he could not touch without pain, but his for an advance of 60,0001 s a year in his revenue. fettle of duty would not fuffer him to overlook it.— and the transfer to another fund of claims which This was an advance of 16,0001. to the Duke of do not et 'all belong to the Civil Lill according Clarence, which was to be repaid by inftalments, to ha original, coaftitution, furnifhed . no fair ground and of which roof. were fill due. If the falary of of obleaion i (or he begged it to be diffinaly under that illuttrious perfonage, or of any other branch flood by that Ronk and the public. that that branch of the Royal Family were found inadequate to pro- of the hereditary revenue which had been enjoyed by vide for the comforts which belonged to the Ration his Majefty's ptedecafors, and, in lieu of which hp they occupied, he would be as ready 1S AY man to had thought proper to accept the Civil Lift, had fo content to any increafe that might be neeeffary ; but far advanced, that it now amounted to between he difliked the principle of inch occafional advances 1,400.000 1 . and I,scoogieral. a•year. this, therea as that to which he alluded. It was a complete de- fore, it appeared, that - the addition of, eichoool. to viation from the fpirit and letter of Mr. Borkes Bill. 9 0 0 ,0001. a year, left a confiderable balance in fa it tended to diforganize the whole fy dem of the Civil votes, of the public. He would put it to the candour Lift. It would ferve to place the Princes of the Blood tit the Houle and the council, whether any proporal in a kind of dependence on the Firlt Lord of the could Rand upon fairer grounds—whether any thing Trealut y, who might, if this practice were tolerated, could be imagined more (elf-eitident, and leis liable to advance any rum he pleated in this clandelline man- mitake ? As to another point in the Ipeech of his I no.. without the content of Parliament, to any parfon Hnn. Friend, which recommended the peopolition of he chore to accommodatr, whether that perion be. Come meafure of general regulation upon a principle longed to the Royal Family, or ngt. For it was analogous to that upon which Mr. Burke's Bill was hard to fay to what au extent the principli: might be founded, he always thought that fuels a meafure was carried. It had, indeed, in one inllance been ex. impracticable, and in this opinion lie was confirmed tended to a military officer (Major General Gardi- from a confideration of the nature. and a knowledge ner), to a-horn above 2000. had been advanced, of the effects of Mr. Burke's rynem, which Vas with the ilipulati,m of repayment at the rate of rot. found to be quite inapplicable. Here the Right Hon. a year, nid a guinea of which had been yet received. Gent. took octagon to Hate that the arse, in the ex- How came it, he Aced, that the pert°, mance of loch pence of the Civil Lift had by no means proceeded, an engagement was not inforced by thole who had as his /ion. Friend profelled to think, from an im the means of d ing In, by deducting from the Pala proper inattention to Mr. Burke's Bill, but from ries they had to pay ?. Tile 'next pone to which the finding that a change of circumilances had rendered Honourable Member called the attention of the a rick attention to that meafure impracticable. Ho Houk, was the deficiency in tile fees of officets in the hoped that his condo& for fume years after the treafury, which amounted to 1 s,oosal. a ium equal to enactment of that Bill was Inch as to (hew, that if it the whole falary of the higher officers in that dcpar t. had failed of its tablet', that failure was not to be at ment. How loch a deficiency grew up he a idled to tribtited to the want of a fincere defire upon his part learn ? Upon the whole, indeed, of the items to and that of his colleagues in office, to carry it into which lie had alluded, be was :onions for explana- complete, execution. That, indeed, was an Mt don, perhaps that explanation might remove his which fearer (hurt of the hopes of its author, and in doubts—doubts lie called them for there was nothing its operation he raw that a pr o j ect ma y be ver y fins in the Report to which he abfolutely foliated, but the in defcription and good in theory, which may have a oecafional advances he teferred to. to the time at different atpea when it comes to be a practical nee which this propolaion was fubmitted, he could not lure. Tn the mode of daffing the creditors of the Civil help raying, that he had much objection. At fach a Lift in the aft alluded to. the Government soithwhich critis as the prefent, when the country had filch bur- he had the honour of being conneeed, had always then. to bear, and filch difficulties to encounter, he adhered. No preference was ever given to any but the did not think it was decorous or fitting to make this Royal Family, the Judges, and the Foreign Miniftert. application on the part of the Crown. As it es as de• and oaf - in all the other claffes the debt was furfered termined to make it, however, it was incumbent on to fall in equal proportion. The Right Hon. Gee his Majelly's Minifters to couple with it Come mea- tleman, however. dwelt upon the confcquences lure to prevent the farther accumulation of debt in which would refult from a rigid adherence to the this department. He had heard it fail that fuch a letter of this aft, particularly in regard to the wine general meafure was impracticable ; but this affertion tion of a debt which &mild be Coffered to go a certain WAS not borne out by the experience of many years number of quarters in arrear. This (Wetly aged upon immediately fucceeding the enactment of Mr Burke's would, he apprehended. expofe the Royal Family Bill. It was evident t hat either fume means mull be themfelves ro have their falaries flopped. The MCA' adopted of keeping the ex pences of this department lure altogether was not reducible to practice, nor did within the revenue Aligned, or a necenity would per. he think any thing of a fimilar nature would be effec petually recur of reforting to Parliament in the way tual. All he thought ad•ifahle or neceffary wao that, then before the Houle. After recapitulating leveral in cafe the Civil Lill Ih.iuld at any future time be in of his quellioni, the Honourable Member admitted debt, and lie could not pretend to provide againft that if a permanent addition to the revenue of the fuch an event. Parliament ()timid be immediately ap- Civil Lilt were deemed necellary, the arrangement p:i Led of the exiflence of filch a debt. ' For this pur could not be put on a better footing than that pro- pole he would have no objection to introduce a climfe pofed by his Right Honourable Friend. He ex.. into the an which was meant to be grounded upon ported the Tieafury, with whom the enntroul telled.l the refoliii ion of the Committee. Such a clank, on to keep all the Government offices within the rules ; joining that whenever the Civil Lift Mould contra& of ceconomy, and not permit extravagance of any , a debt of a Ipecifieci amount, or whenever it Ihould i kind. Among the other explanations lequiled by he a certain time in arrear, the (aft Shouldbe Lid he the Honourable Gentlemar, lie tcluefled to be in- foie Parliament. This appeared to him to be the farmed of the amount of die four and a half per cent. molt fimpk mode of proceeding. and the only plan i • I