Star. — London, England, 1819-03-06 00:00:00

r :: '.; ( IL . 4' 9 i ►' ►• 4 lean to the side of mercy, but they could not have done so without sactificing justice—if they had shewn mercy to the petitioner, they would have been unjust to the sitting Member. He knew nothing of either of them, but had acted according to the impartial dic tates of his own judgment. Mr. ABERCROMBt•wished to disclaimall intea tion of making any illiberalremarks on the Members Of the Committee; nothing he had ever spoken gave him greater satisfitction than what he had said on this subject, as the tendency of his remarks was to amend this law. Mr. W. WYNNE deprecated discussion on this subject at present: He thought that the petition, although it only prayed for the amendment of the law, implied a reflection on the Committee. Fifteen gentlemen, sitting on oath had come to a decision, and it was not fit that that decision should be Aries tioned. It was at present inconvenient to discuss the propriety of amending the law, and it was at all events unnecessary as the House had ordered minutes, and notice had been given of a motion to amend the act. He concluded by expressing a wish that the Learned Gentleman would withdraw the petition. The Petition, however, was read, and ordered to be printed.—lt states, That on the first day of the present Session of Parliament, a Petition was received by the house, praying a determination of the right of Election, and complaining of an undue' return fur the County and City of limerick. That the Petitioner entered into the recognizances required by law, under the several Statutes passed in the 28th and 53d years of his present Majesty's reign. 'that the Petitioner served S notice on the sitting Member, apprizing him that it was intended to apply for a Commission to take evidence in Ireland. wt.... ea... a...mumv having been appointed to try the merits of such Petition, the 'Weiner& and lists were exchanged on Friday, the 27th of February. That in order to prove the Petitioner's right as Candidate to proceed, the poll-books were produced in the hands of the proper Officer—the Town Clerk and Clerk of the Peace for the City of Limerick. That the Returning Officers were proved to have received the • poll-books at the immediate close of the last Election, and to have soon after delivered them to the Town Clerk and Clerk of the Peace, as the proper autos. That the poll-books were tendered to the Select Committee by the Tows Clerk and Clerk of the Peace, in the same state as when he had received them, and with the seal of the Return ing officers unbroken. That no evidence, 'or even suggestion was offered, to shew that the poll-books had ever been out of legal custody. That in every Irish case since the Union such evidence had been uniformly received and acted upon, as sufficient to authen ticate the poll-hooks. • That it Nevertheless aperared meet to such Select Committee t) reject this evidence as insufficient, and to refuse the Petitioner oppoi tunity of produ:ing the witnesses, whose attendance was rendered necessary by the strict rules now for the first time so enforced. That. however deeply the Petitioner lamented a determination which has affected Lis own hopes and interests, and has pre vented a large and respectable body of liiectors from laying their claims before the Muse of Com:dots; and from obtaining 'a re dross for the injustice of which they complain, still the Petitioner bowed with submission to the anti! yof the Select Committee. Titat the Petitioner could not but feel more strongly the hard ships of his situation, when he considered that he, obeying every . enactment of the - L. , :eslature, every standinz order of the House, and porrting the uniform course of usage and precedent, was yet excluded from the remedy he had sought to obtain ; whilst other Petitionene who have tic,,Aected the positive tnactmerits of statutes, and who are therefore barred by the ordinary con struction of law, are yet, by the equitable jurisdiction of Parlia ment, admitted as Petitioners at the Bar. That the Petitioner begs hctc to represett most strongly the dangerous consequences to which the decision of the Select Com mittee must inevitably lead, by subjecting fri,h Petitioners to peculiar dificulties and enormous expenses; by investing Re turtling-Officers with a most arbitrary power ; by counteracting the intentions of the Legislature in providing for the examine, tins, of evidence in Ireland; an d placi* the claims of Yeti %loners and the rights of Electors at the mercy of a single De puty-Sheriff, or Poll-Clerk. Your Petitioner begs humbly to sureest, that if all Returning Officers were bound to insert the times of 411 candidates, and the fact of a poll, In the indentures of return, and that such re turn, duly authesiticated, were made evidence of all the allega tions it contained, the evils which have pressed on your Peti tioner with such severity, would for the future be obviated. De therefore prays that the House will take the premises into consideration, and will make thereon such order as to their wisdom should seem meet. FINANCE COMMITTEE. Mr. CALCRA FT inquired whether it was intended that the Committee of Finance should ever meet? or whether it had been appointed as a Committee of Privileges at the beginning of the Session, and as a matter of form ? The reason why he asked the pies tionwas, that he had moved last year in the Com mittee for very important papers, respecting the im mense accumulation of public money under the heads of Management, &c. amounting to eleven millions of money, in which he was in hopes a considerable saving might be effected. He hid also moved for certain papers respecting the office of Storekeeper- General, in which, he understood, a larger estab lishment was kept than necessity required. These papers had rot been produced, and must he moved fur again in the present Committee. But if it did not meet at an early period, it would be impossible to act on any of the documents for which he intended to call, in the course of the present Session. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was as anxious as the Honourable Gentleman himself for the early assembling of the Committee ; but it had hitherto beeri unavoidably delayed by the absence of 'Members who Were engaged on Election Committees. lie hoped . that it Would speedily be able to meet, anti he trusted it would.not be later than next week, when the motions of the Honourable Gentleman would be immediately submitted to its consideration. Mr. CALCR AFT suggested the practicability of collecting a sufficient number of Mentisers to Make a quorum, in order to enable him to niove for the . papers which he thought necessary, and hasten their production before the Committee should enter upon any mote complicated labours. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said . that he should.have no Objection to adopt such a plan for the purpose mentioned by the Honourable Gen tleman, as Members were still too much overloaded with business to enable them to enter upon the great objects of the Committee. Mr. TIERNEY did not see the necessity of the at tendance of the Right Honourable. Gentleman him self in the Committee at its early sittings. He might be represented by somebody else, if the Committee had not been appointed solely to carry . into effect the measures of his Majesty's Ministers. But the whole was a mockery, as he had announced it from the fi rs t. • The Committee had been 'appointed a whole month, and had never met to this very day. The cuia rrna n had. not thought proper to collect the )webers even once. But therp was, be believed, no 7 The Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had c ome be &nu in. a great hurry, • saying, give me } '_' ~ ... a Committee, but now he had obtained it, he made 13,0 use of it. The whole was a mockery and a nui sance. -It had never meant, and never would , vneast any thing, till the House should interfere to give effect to its own Resolutions. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended, that the Finance Committee of last year had done much good to the country, and that no less was to be expected from the labours of the present. HALT PAY OFFICERS. Mr. LYTTLETON inquired of the Noble Lord opposite whether be had yet come to a decilion re specting the terms of the Affidavit to be taken by Half-pay Officers before receiving their pay ? Lord PALMERSTON had not been able to give an answer when the subject had been agitated for the first time. He now was able to state that the rules had been so far modified and relaxed, that whereas Half-pay Officers hitherto could receive no pay if they held any office under the Crown, it was now proposed that they should receive it with any office the salary of which would not . exceed more than three times the amount of their half-pay. This, it wal; evident, would enable them to enjoy twice the amount of their full-pay, and when it was con , ilered how few of those Officers, especially those of inferior rank, had any chance of being restored to the active service, he trusted the House would not disapprove of the arrangement on the eve of taking place. Mr. LYTTLETON was convkced that the &ter !flirtation of Government on this point must give com plete satisfaction to th? llouse.--(llcar, hear.) Mr. Alderman WOOD inquired whether any Offi cer entering into tha service of foreign countries, would beallowed, in consequence of this new regu lation, to retain his half pay ? Lord PALMERSTON replied that it was under stood to apply merely to offices held under the Crown. But it might be matter for a separate con sideration, whether it should be extended to situa tions held under foreign Powers. Mr.IIE,NNEY w:slied to know if a rumour he had heard were true, that the enlisting for a limited time had been prohibited. 'Lord PALMERSTON replied that he was not aware of any new scale reducing the amount of the limited and unlimited service. CONIMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The House then went into a Committee of Supply to which the. Miscellaneous Estimates were referred. . _ Mr. ARBUTHNOT proposed the following Reso luti)ns, explaining that the whole sum for Civil Con tingencies required for the present year, would be about £50,000 less than last year. £79,1.50 to pay certain charges not defrayed out of the Civil List. X 7.00,000 for Civil List Contingencies. a 18,449 to make good the deficiencies of Pee Fund, in the Office.; of the three Secretaries of State, the Treasury, and the Privy Council. Sir H. YARNELL wished the vote to be post poned until further inquiry could be made. Mr. ARBUTHNOT did not think that any fur ther information could, be furnished. Sir H. PARNELL' added, that further papers ought to be produced regarding the accumulation of this fund. The CHANCELLOR of the EXOHEQUER said, that an increaie had been occasioned by,the addition of a part of the Irish Treasury to that of England ; hnt he had no objection to produce the Estimates. Upon the whole the reduction was considerable. Sir H. PARNELL then gave notice that he should move for the papers. • Mr. Aldermen WOOD thought that the least.the House could expect was, that the accounts should be produced before the money was voted. Mr. CALCRAFT said, that there was a sum of nearly £600,000 requiring explanation. It was the duty of the House to postpone the vote until the claim had been duly examined. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re plied, that the sum was to make good the deficien cies of the last year. Mr. CALCRAFT rejoined, that if the money had been improvidently spent, it was still more the duty of the House to inquire--(Hear, hear.) Mr. BARNETT said, that he should feel bound to resist the vote until information was given on the subject—(hear, tear). Mr. C. HUTCHINSON was sure that Ministers were too much alive to the distressed situation of the country not to withdraw the vote until grounds had been shewn for giving the money required: no less than £20,000 had been expended f..n- snuff-boxes to foreign Ministers. Mr. AR BUTIINOT did not wish to press the vote against the sense of.the House, and would withdraw it accordingly: he was ready to give all the details as to whom the snuff-boxes were presented, and al-o on what accounts.--The Re%olution was • then with drawn, as well as a further vote for £90,000, for the same purpose. Lord CARHAMPTON begged that he might be informed whether any snuff had been charged for, to give with the boxes ?—(Laughter). Mr. ARBUTHNOT then moved, that a sum not exceeding £73,000 be granted to his Blajesty, for de fraying miscellaneous contingencies and expenses of messengers ; also £6,500 for the payment of'the sala ries and compensations to be made to the Of f icers appointed for the receipts of his Majesty's Exchequer, for the year 1819. The Motions were agreed to, and the Reports or dered to be received on Monday next. The following grants were then moved for and agreed to, viz. 4:14,516 for the expenses of the Houses of Lords and Commons for 1819 ; 1:22,400 for the salaries of the Officers of both those Houses for the same year ; and 1:922 ts. Id. to make good the de.; ficiency of the grant of last Session, for 'the same purpose; £31,974 for the expenses of public works and buildings for the current year. • . Mr. BENNET observed among the items of this Estimate, a charge of £2116, for repairs of the Kink's Bench Prison. If he mistook not, a large proportion of twit sum ought to be otherwise liquidated,. The' enormous fees received by the Marshal and other,' Officers of that Prison, might surely be applied, in part, to defraying some of" the repairs necessary far that fabric. Mr. ARBUTHNOT begged leave to remind the Honourable Gentleman, that these sums had not been already expended, but were estimate of the probable' expenses only, made out by'r ce to former years. The Board of Works_ hadits, otlisiii!itenlit to go by in preparing dem, Shim OtakOtpit oft e amount. in antecedent periods. And he could assure Lis /ion. Friend, that as • to this particular sum of £2116, it was no more than an average estimate of what might be necessary. On the other hand, it was very pro bable that not a single shilling might be required for this purpose. • Sir HENRY PARNELL said, that he knew of no better principle upon which to prepare these esti mates, where expenses could not be exactly and mi nutely foreseen, than to take their average on former years. Mr. WILLIAMS wished to ask a question of the Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Arbuthnot) re specting an item of £lO,OOO, the estimated epenses of his Alajesty's ,Mint for the current , year. He wished to know whether this related to any addi tional new building ? Mr. ARBUTHNOT could assure the Honourable Gentleman that that item had no such reference. He, had sent for a particular Gentleman attached to the Board of Works, in order that it might be e..plained. It was well known to the Honourable Member, that ' the Mint seas a very large buildinE, and however trivial it might erri as a part of so large a sum, yes it was necessary to observe, that it was this year in tended to paint the Mint throughout, which would be a very considerable expense. It had been deemed advisable also to repave it. Still possibly the esti mate might be too large; but the House would ob serve, that it by no means necessarily followed that the sum would he expended. CALPDONIAN CANAL Mr. A RBUTFINOT moved that a sum, not exceed ing 50,000/. be granted towards defraying the expenses of the inland Navigation to the Western Sea, from Inverness to Fort William. This subject excited con siderable attention in that House some time ago, when it was referred to the consideration of a Com-. mittee, by whom it was reported to be a work of great national advantage and importance, and advis able to be carried on. Ile did not know in what light thellouse would consider it, nor could he pretend to offer an opinion upon it ; but he was authorised to say, that should the House agree to the grant, only 27,000/. more -would be requisite to complete it— (A laugh.) Mr. KENNET observed, that ever since he had been in that House, he had always observed, that when a very large and liberal sum was granted for :t specified purpose, it was invariably followed by a second application, nearly to the extent of the for mer. In the present case, he really could not consent to so lavish a grant of the public money, for what he considered an idle, profitless, and useless expendi ture. He saw no object that was to be achieved, even sltculd the. House ac- ede to th:lt motion, but the trans , port of stone, and the passage of a few boats, for the purpose of amazing the Scottish peasantry. Mr. ARBUTHNOT was not desirous to offer any opinion upon it : he had not himself made the estimate. On the question being put, Mr. BANKS thought the grounds of this claim should be clearly defined.. It appeared that upwards of £70,000 were still wanting for the completion of this work. Mr. LAMRTON rove to order.• He apprehended that as the question had been already put, the regular and parliamentary course was to piocceed imme diately to a divivion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sug gested, that it would be better to put this question to the vote of a fuller House. Sir W. BURROUGHS was of opinion that the •House could not hesitate to proceed, after the ques tion had been pat. He appealed to the Honourable Member on the bench below him, whether such was not the established usage of Parliament? It was the undoubted and only regular course of proceeding, that no Member should speak to the question after it had been once put—(lleer, hear.) Mr. BANKES declared, that in speaking after the question had been put by the Chairman, he had no wish or intention to infringe upon the customs or ob servances of the House. He had considered the ques tion as having been simply proposed by the Honour able Member. Mr. BROGDEN acknowledged, that not being aware that the House would at all go into the ques tion, he had sa proposed it as stated - by the Honour able Gentleman. The Gallery wai then cleared, but no division took place, the Motion having been withdrawn. Oa our re-admission, we found Mr. BROODEN on his legs, and replying to some observltions made as to the manner of putting the question by Mr. l'unnEs. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER oh servei, that from the hurry of proceedings, some ir regularity, more or less, might sometimes occur; but he did not doubt that Parliament would always adopt the regular course on these occasions. Mr. FORBES and Mr. BROODER mutually explained. A grant of 1.74,932 was then moved, for the ex penses of finding, maintaining, and providing for Convicts in" Great Britain. Mr. BENNET objected, however, to the grant generally, as being exorbitant. Mr. ARBUTHNOT perfectly concurred in all that had fallen from the Honourable Gentleman, but he must be permitted to say, that the amount of this, grant was £ll,lOO less than that of last year, which, amounted to £89,000. If the lion. Gentleman was anxious to set the details of that Estimate, he should be very happy to furnish him with the Account. Mr. BENNET had observed, among others, a very large sum, stated to be for the expenses of fit ting up a single ship for the reception of convicts.— He thqught this demanded some inquiry'. Mr.. Alderman WOOD could not help consider ing the estimate of these expenses as altogether enor mous ; and he must call the serious attention of the Cominittee to one circumstance particularly. There appeared to be an allowance, carried to the account as a credit, of Is. 6d. a-head to labourers, and of Cs. 6d. a-head to artificers, • Now it was impossible that this could really be so: It *as impossible that these wages were to be paid to convicts, as the value of their labour. They might dig a few holes, or as sist in building a wall ; but was it intended to put i ihis amount of labour in competition with the allow ance ? That allowance amounted to a very large sum. He trusted the Committee would go into the matter. ' • Mr. CLIVE saidohat theallowance was not more than two-thirds of what would be earned bp 'other labourers. • . . . • . Mr. Aldan WOOD wa& well aware that - tbs. Han. Gentleman ought to be much better informal vn the subject than he could pretnn.l to nr.; L ut would adolit the force of hi , ; reasonia l y, if he cow produce a certificate from any comper ei , 7 to the value of their labour bci:tg equal charged for. Mr. ARBUTHNOT had ro douht that Friend behind him wou1:1 give all the inftirarit required by the worthy Alderman. Mr. CLIVE begged' to state, thatanumbeTv,.l. vict labourers were lately pat to a woik at S! ....,.. which they were allotted one month to romp!et t i, they did it a few days short of that time—(//,...; The motion was then agreed to, as wren ti lowing grants: £4,777 for Expenses atte niiiirg the ronf:n^".•?rt of Lunatics, fos 1819 ; the time to be paid witl:tut tion wits:never. xi,ouo for Expenses incurred by Prosccuthr - ft: d 6: Coin of these Kirvloins. Eso,cco kr the Ekt..r.ses of Ltw Charges for t 1::.• cr.:: 1.'3,000 in Aid of the Nejor.2l Vaccine Institutioo. 17f:,000 fer Expetni;:s of Printir.,•• the Acts of 6 , 4 C- : ,.„ ( Pa-Jan: tot, is order to he distributed to all , 4 J ustices , an d to c•her Officers o: the La w t h outy!.o .. : United Kindom ; aLo fur the Expenses of P Proelamatious. £2...:00 for Expenies of rrlnting the Votes cf the l!st, e d Comm( ni. durio •he present Bessie sof l'itriimacat. £149 9s. for the H:licieney in the Grant made in isi lT Printing 1,750 Copies of the 524 Volume of the I rt. of the House of Commons. X 11,000 fur the A rarri can .I,6y.a!ists. £251 10s. for defraying the Allowances for Compernem- h Salaries, and Stiperannnations to retired Clerk. of tits LA. tery-office for 1819. £2,444 for the same Allowances to retired Clerks of the (lax of the Commissioners for Auditing Public Acceu.,t, X 990 for similar Allowances to retired efacrri o, the Malt. £266 13s. 4d. for the same purpows to retit.•‘! ('leaks •!I e Office for Payment of Exchequer llils, all fur :lie current • *rF at LA or .:ie l tr It ye t i • as • rar tt ip a e • )!et t 6 ; dtt it the 1 • m4.,- ;.; t i e c 7 ,, e , 4 '1 14 ": ( 1 • 110:4 1 I', fel. rtattaqs Ki!re'Vry, t: s the pa, t,. r •: - ks !!le rrcnt Pen c:.rini , • is mcard tbi t: . e it 1" e :1 .1s InnertFe ref:rants tow 2t as the Can- inger r. it repi:rs e rare f . .it W:4 Ect her tzar [EirT.R. Et AS there :ging a:a Iful:41 to red at an ordinary he ur.der- te, should ion to an )ssessed of Borourb. hat Nen K be relied and the e brought ;;ER Rise ke the In- achequer, at present the Rigl: to the ap- nnber that louse :Ind ye that he ' England re. for ;n- MILITARY ROADS IN SCOTLAYD. On the Motion for a Grant of £558, for Pensions of Retired Officers of the Military Roads in Set,; , ta d, Mr. CALCIt AFT wished to know what this wont? He wished to ascertain whether, after paying f or t h e making of the Roads, we were to grant Pens;ors to the Officers employed in supeti:lrending itr Pe thon2ht this Grant was about as wTil memed for die Ca!edonian-Canat.—(A Mr. AU BUT lINOT plesnnied. t the lionntnah!e Gentleman knew that this was one of the remnants of an old system. The mili:ary roads were now at aa end, being, in fact, under the direction of the Com missioners of Highland Roads, and no longer arty expense to the country, inasmuch as ail their repairs were defrayed by county rates. s • Mr. C ALC It AFT was quite aware that the toads were at an end; but he was also aware f...it they had long since been p:tid for. Ile it'Ai I:Ct equally well informed thy, Live years after fr.& completion, this grant should be claimed. The CHANCELLOR . of the EXCHEirtft could not, certainly, account for the applicafrms having been so long delayed, except*, that as there had been no previous opportunity of bringing a:a subject before Parliament, the Officer alluded to could not expect his case to he considered at an earlier period. Mr. CALCRAFT thought it a very extraordinary coincidence, that Sir John Ars'," tither, as he under stood from a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, should have promised in his lifc-tim.. this Pension to an Officer, who had since his death bec:-:nle possessed of a property not less 4,atraordinary—a Scotch Borourb. —( Hear, hear.) • Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that the salary had tan given long before Sir John Anstruther's dead:, at least so far as a Treastry promise could be relied on.—(A laugh.) Some other Grants were then agreed to, and the Report of the Committee was ordered to be brought up un Monday next. AVAILABLE BALANCES. The CHA'NCELLOR of the EXCIIF.QI7II Fre notice of his intention on Monday, to mike the ba lance of the Consolidated Fund in the Exchequer, available to the public service, which was at present a source of profit to the Bank. Mr. GRENFELL could not see why the Riet Hon. Gentleman should confine his object to the ar plication of this balance only ; he must remember that he had, in this very Session, given the House and himself (Mr. Grenfell) good reason to believe that he would make the bal!nces in the Bank of England available to the public service. There were, for in stance, the various deposits of the Commissioners on Stamps, the Excise, and the Post.-office ; all of which. he had understood the Right Hon. Gentleman to say. would be made generally available. He tMr. Gren fell) could hardly permit himself to doubt, that tve I Right Hon. Gentleman would not fulfil his promise if such, however, was his intention, he must do what he had trusted he should never be compelled• to do again—he must, hotvever reluctant to re-agitate that question, again bring the subject of the balances in the hands of the Bank before that House, in order to make them available, as he had so often comer,- ' ded they should be made, to the public service (hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed in reply, if the Honourable Member had waited till Monday, when he should state his mica more at large, he would have found that it was his intention to move a Resolution, rendering availabl e 'to the public service nearly six millions sterling; leaving a sum of less than £2,000,000 unaccounted Nr. • amusa.Lapar...s. Sir M. RIDI.EY postpoutel his Motion en the sultject of t•es Lords of the Admiralty to the I tith instant, in consequence of an applimtion from /dud Castkreagh, who was absent in co“. sequence of a family misfortune. . Mr. GORDON, seeing an lloiourable Friend of craft) in his place, wished to knew whether it was his intention to propose the renewal of the Committee upon Salt? Mr. CALCRAFT was sorry that the question should hive been asked when he was not prepared to give a positive aPswe: to it. lie bad been so entirely occupied for the last fortrag'it on Election Committees, that it bad not been in his poser t't turn his attention to any other subject. Ile was also regagei in a correspondence with a Public Board, witi-la be was roue of bringing to en issue before he committed himself fg7- ther. Neat week, however, he trusted he should be able t 2 I announce at least what part lie intended to take. Mr. WALLACE said, that if the Honourable Member in tended to peoliese the total repeal of the duties, he should pose such a proposition. Mr. WILLIAM WILLIAMS gave notice, that in tie Inth instant, he should ask leave to bring in a WI to impute upon persons who vete at Borough Elections the same t/..th taken by County Plectors. The CHANCELLQk of the EXCHEQUER postr-oard to Itlonday sennight, the Committee on the Royal Household MI, to consequence or the lamented event which had orcurr.d the fastailLf his Noble Friend and Colk.igue (Lord Vismant Castlereagh ~ Sir 'A. PP, far the same ream+, put off his Motion re. Spotting the Royal Equerries to the same day. - %Olt 1 4 90 4 2 of the CuArcolsos of the Escootail :bi