Star. — London, England, 1816-04-26 00:00:00

. Num' £ 19096 PiIRLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS, APRIL 25. Sir J. JACKSON brought up a Petition front the Victuallers i o Dover, ayainst the License Dutlei: Pati!ion %fix. , also presented, 011 tits same subject, from the v ic tuallers of Bridgwater. Mr. GRA r FAN presented a Petition from the Lord Mtyor 'pa Corporation of Dublin, against the Tax on admission of !neaten into the Corporation. Also a Petition from the Pub licans of Dublin, praying that the Grocers may not be permiued tort git Spirits in small quantities. Ordered to lie on the 'table. Mr. BLACKBURN presented a Petition from the Woollen Manufacturers of Rochdale, praying that no alteration stay be w ide in the Laws relating to the exportation of Wool A similar Petition was presented from the Baize Mandate 44 yes of Rostendale. A Petition from the Linen Bleachers and Manufacturers of Ireland, was presented, praying the repeal of that Duties on the importation of Aalies and Flat Seed. . A similar Petition was presented by Lord YAILISOUTS, front the Linen Islanufacturers of Ireland. Mr. W. DUNDAS presented a Petition from the Linea Ma aufacturtra of Dundee, praying that the salutary laws he the protection of the Linen Trade in Great litigant and Ireland may rat be repealed. A Pe: ulna from Fiittbstrgh and Leith preyed the equalisation of the Distillery Laws. Lord LASCELLES brought up a Petition from the Wool staplers of Wakefield, praying against any new Duty on the eit rotation of Wool. • Lord SIANLEY presented a similar Petition from the Wool. len Manufacturers of Bury. Several Petitions were presented, preying retrenchments in the Public Expenditure, the of Sinecure Places, ilk. and others against the continuance of the Leather l'as. They were or tiered ,togei her with all those above-mentioned, to lie on the Table. A Petition was presented from the Ship-owners and others of Bridport against the Weymouth Bridge Bill. Mr. NEWMAN presented Petitions front Stokenham, North Huish, East Allingion, and Chariton, all in Devonshire, against the present oi.prwire system of taking Tithes in Mal—Ordered to lie on the *Vablr. The Weyinoutb Harbour and Highland Distillery Bills were read a tined time and passed. Mr. BIRTH gave notice, that he should, on Tuesday next, make a motion respecting some late appointments in Greenwich he Transport Office Bill was read a second time. ASSESSED TAXES. • On the Mozioa of Mr. LUSHING lON that the House go into a Conunittee on the Assessed Taxes Bill, for the purpose of ' roatpun , ng ir, Ulf M. W. lUDLEY wished to know, whether any alteration was intended SO be trade in the Window Duly on Houses mat• pied as Shops and Manufactories? lu :Vlancbester, where Build. foss which mere formerly Davell4lloou/a i were now converted Into Warehouses for the skew of Goods, he understood the Tat was demanded the um* as usual. He had also just renetrad a Inter, informing him, that the Surveyor for Nye/castle hail do. maid the payment of such Taxes without delay. If it was ant the intention or the Right Honourable Gentleman to give satis factory explanations on this subject, be should resume it himself greater kerb in the Committee. Mr. LUSHING lON (in the absence of the Chancellor of the Ezehequer) said a few words, the substaucetof which was, that 6146st:seta:, answer to the location of the Honourable Baronet could not .be given, till certain returns were received, which here daily espected. The Conanguce was then postponed till te•mori ow. 'llae Committee c the Hasbaadry Ram Dada was pmt• 10144 cili Iviouday. niirs Mr. FINLAY rose, in pursuance of his notice, to move for the appointment of a Committee, to take into consideration the laws relating to foreign linens, and to report their observati•ins thereon to the House. Th e Honourable Gentleman prefaced his motion by a variety of arguments, to prove the expediency of taking off the duty on Foreign Linens imported into this country, with a view to'subsequent exportation It peace, as we bad the monopoly of trade with the nes.- world, the duty was not injurious; but in war, when our merchants must necessarily have to contend with those of other countries, the effect of it would be to thrnw ioto the hands of the latter the whole of that branch of commerce. The inhabitanteot South America would be supplied with foreign linens, vilie thrr or not we chose to be the channels through which they were to be conveyed to them. He contended that his proposition, so tar from injuring the interests of the Iris!' and Scotch linen manufacturers, would matcrially benefit them ; for it was a fact, that at the !triad when there was no duty on the foreign linens, a much greater exportation than usual had taken place of linens manufactured in Ireland and Scotland. All that he desired was an inquiry into the subject, and hepledged himself to prove, that the interests of all parties would be best consulted by the adoption of the measure which he thought it hts duty to re. commend. Mr. V. FITZGERALD opposed the Honourable Gentleman's motion, as one pregnant with mischiev ous consequences ,• and trusted Parliament would not abandon a law, the benefiis of which had been for se many years experienced. A petition had that day been presented by a Noble Lord from the Linen Ma nufacturers of Ireland, praying for a repeal of the Voiles imposed last Session on bleaching materials. That Noble Lord would have much more cause to oppose a proposition which threatened to put down the Irish Linen Manufacture altogether. When the geicinabie Gentleman argued that foreign nations could supply Spanish America with their linens with " making theist Britain the channel for their con yquce, he forgot that this could not be done with aqy facilit y ; and %heti he said that Spanish America ""i'lj not be content without foreign linens, he for tot lon g they had been exclusively wpplied with Besides, fo r eign linens had been so "'""b!ully imitated by our manufacturers, as to be in request in the Transatlantic markets. The honourable Gentleman here entered into a variety. of uazcineuts to sheer that the British linen manufactu . I " "u as much interested as the Irish linen naanu ,;tuitr is twisting the proposition ; and maintained fla t at such a moment as the present, it would be 41 , (ISt inexpedient, in a question between the minu '4',uting interest of Great Britain and Ireland, and twaewho wanted a rpieopoly of the carrying trade, it) injure the tomer by giving an advantage to the • l eleilo manufacturer. But, although it was by no • r 'e'inob exclusively an !ash question, yet, as an Irish lnestisn, he, deprecated the appointment of a Com nonce on the subject. The House fould nut be aware set the gr anxiety and-alarm which-even the notice °I th e kluneturable Geettemau had excitm) in Ireland, . 141 14(41 % parikularia in die province of Ulster. Ise . 1," • . • ( PTA ' . ea - -. •Y 1-/-..:11 4 .% .- 4: , ei 3 . I nt ......vp - 14 1 0 • vs ‘67 6, „lf, . - . at. . : .. i,. ... 0... lox. Vic: • Air : .1)A --- - g u ri 4411 - 4 1e6 e . . U 0 .4.....1.10..) XL sensed in war. As to the general principle, lie ( Lord C) did not wish to see a heavy transit duty on those articles of foreign pro nice, in the carrying of which the. trade of this country was so much benefited. The carrying trade of this country wits a most advanta geous branch of commerce, but in the present case it was not that kind of one which should be pre- (erred to so important a branch of our home manu facture as the Linen Trade, or cultivated to its pre- judice. He was not prepared to admit, that by an adherence to a general principle of commerce, we should silence or sicrifice an important commercial and manufacturing branch of such vast local advan tage. Another objection which he had to the ap pointment of a Committee was, that besides its creat ing a great degree of alarm, it would not afford any additional information to that which was already furnished by sever.4l documents which were before the House. For he contended that there was no branch of this trade with which the House could not be fully informed by documents which had been al ready laid before them. The Committee might in deed be able to furnish a good deal of reasoning on the subject, but they would not be able to produce any new facts. It was clear that the exports of Irish Linen had considerably increased since the imposi tion of the transit duty, and the general fear in Ire land was, that the trade would be materially injured by the repeal of that fluty. This it was which caused , so much alarm on the part of the Irish manufactu rers, and he contended that it was the duty of the House rather to allay any ferment on the part of the people of Ireland than contribute to increase it by the adoption of such a measure as that which was now proposed. He thought it was not consistent with sound commercial policy to play tricks with our domestic industry, and he was convinced that with regard to Ireland, the present was by no means the time for such experiments. Mr. J. P. GRANT thought that the arguments used by the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) were in them selves soffic;ent to shew the necessity of a Committee of Inquiry. The Noble Lord had said that the ex ports of Ireland had increased since this duty had been imposed, but it_should be recollected that it had increased in a time of war, and since the conclusion of peace it had decreased. He (Mr. Grant) con. tended, that en inquiry into the present state of the manufacture, as far as it was affected by the transit duty, could do no injury, and would at least have the effect of giving the House sufficient information on the subject. He would wish also to have the opinions of the Board of Trade on it, and to hear what the Chancellor of the Exchequer thought of it. It was possible that a difference of opinion might exist be tween Ministers on this subject, as differences existed between other Members of the House, and this dif ference was, is his opinion, a strong reason why in quiry should be gone4nto.—(Hear, hear.) A Com. wattles ziloatu be appointed to inquire, why, on • the return of peace, a particular branch of manufacture should not be carried on in that way which it existed before the wan—Wear, hear.) He hoped and trusted that the House would consent to the present motion, and not be deterred from so important an inquiry by the erroneous alarms of a few people who did nut seem perfectly to understand their own interests. The carrying trade of this country was of the utmost im portance to it, and should not be injured, as it would be by the existence gf the present transit duty, with- out at least an inqtally as to whether the benefit to be sibtained by its continuance was or was not a counter balance to the injury ? Mr. PEEL was convinced that the Honourable PRICE SEVEN-PE Ni r. Member who spoke last was actuated in what he said by the best of motives, but he (Mr. Peel) was also certain that that Honourable Member had argued from an erroneous view of the question. It was erro neous to suppose that the people, whose fears mere' so justly excited by the notice of the present motion, 1 were few in number. The fact was they were a most numerals', industrious, and respectable body of peo ple. They were, he might say, almost the whole of the population of the province of Ulster. They car ried on this important trade, which was the staple trade of Ireland, and which England was bound to protect as it had been guaranteed to Ireland by the promise of King William 111. in lieu of the woollen trade, of which they were then deprived. It was a trade, the protection of which was granted to them in lieu of that great trade 'in which they were at one time the powerful rivals of England. Would the Honourable Member say that those men were mis guided-who looked with fear on any act of the Li gislature which went to injure their staple trade? Or would he say that they were only a few, when he (Mr. Peel) informed him of their great numbers ? The fears which were excited by the notice of the present motion had already a very powerful effect in giving a partial stagnation to the Irish Linen Trade, es had been proved by what fell from his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. V. Fitzgerald). He (Mr. Peel) would not say that all these fears which were entertained on this subject were well founded, but he would con tend, that as such fears were known to exist, it would be impolitic at the present moment to increase them by any act which could ultimately produce no good He thought that it would be considered as a bad omen by the people of Ireland, if a motion were ac ceded to, which, in their opinion of it, would be sa crificing their staple trade to the carrying trade of England. This, he was convinced, would be consi 'tiered as a bad omen of the dispositions of Parliament towards them, on the eve of its going into the da.cus sion of the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet oppo .site (Sir.J. Newport), and therefore he (Mr. Peel) contended it would be highly impolitic to accede to the motion. The klonOurable Member TUT. J. P. Grant) had said that the repeal of tire Transit Duties would serve the linen-manufacturer of Ireland This was but an opinion, and against that opinion he (Mr. Peel) could urge two others. The one, that of the foreign manufacturers, and the other, that of a moat intelligent body of men—the Linen Board of Ireland. The tormer were convinced that the repeal of the FRIDAY, APRIL 26, 18.16. proof of this assertion, the Right Honourable Gen tleman read a letter from Mr. Ferguson, the Chair- , man of the Board of Linen Trade, in which, among other observations, it was stated, that an order for a large quantity of. linen in imitation of foreign linen had been suspended, until the fate of the Honourable Gentleman's motion should be known. Under all these circumstances, considering the alarm which ex isted on the subject, considering that the linen manu facture was the staple manufacture of Deland, for which Ireland had sacrificed the woollen manufacture, and which Great Britain was bound to protect, he trusted the House would refuse to accede to the mo tion of the Honourable Gentledian. Mr. MARRYAT contended, that the !tight Ho. nottrable Gentleman who had just sat- down, had taken an erroneoueview of the question. It had been one of the great objeers of Mr. Pitt's policy to make this country the emporium of commerce. With this view be had advised the formation of those wet docks and warehouses, which were so well calculated' for the furtherance of that object. There were two great articles on which our foreign commerce depended— foreign linens and French wines. He trusted not only, that the Honourable Member for Glasgow would succeed in his present motion, but that a gene ral investigation would take place, id order to revive those regulations which having been made for a time of war, were not applicable to a time of peace.— During war, we enjoyed the monopoly of commerce, and might do as we chose. But times were changed. Peace gave to the other Powers of Europe the means of competition, and unless we could enter into the contest on equal terms, our commerce would - soon be lost, and go into other channels. In fact the conti nuation of war duties in a time of peace, had already almost cost us the two great articles of our foreign commerce—foreign linens and French wines. As an Underwriter, he had taken pains to observe the num ber and nature of the ships employed in the transit of foreign commerce. For the first three months after peace, the number of British ships in comparison with the number of foreign ships so employed, was as four to one ; in the next three months as two to one.— In the succeeding three months the number of British and foreign ships so employed, were nearly at par. In the last three months be was sorry to say, that the number of foreign ships compared with British, was as t*o to one. That very morning, on a reference to the list at Lloyd's, received from their ! agent at Havannab, he found that at that port, (to which during the war we had a monopoly of the trade), 186 vessels had arrived in the mouths of January and February, and that of those 186 vessels, not one came from a British port! This was an answer to what the Right Honourable Gentleman had said of the alarm excited among the Irish linen manufac turers, by the present proposition. If no ship ar rived at the Havatinah Irons a British port, no Irish 4lstausvuutd arrive there. He had formerly freignred vessels to Havannah ; and be had never senr foreign linens thither, without their having been accompanied by Irish linens. A correspondent of Iris had come to this country last year, from the Havannah, with ,eO,OOO for the purchase of goods—a fourth of which was to be laid out in foreign linens, and French wines. Finding, however, that such heavy duties were impoitd on the latter articles in Great Britain, and that he could consequently obtain them at a much cheaper rate in any port of the continent, he went to the continent for that purpose, and there finding,, that (owing to the wise system adopted by our late enemies, and present rivals, of establishing free ports for the reception, and re-exportation of fo reign manufactures without duty), he could ship other articles as well as foreign linens, and French wines, on more advantageous terms than in Great Britain, instead of reserving £16,000 for the pur chase of goods in Great Britain, (most of which would have been Irish linens), he laid out his whole ,e 20,000, in a foreign country. Yet this was the Gstem of commercial policy, which the Right Hon. entleman recommended the House to maintain. All that Parliament were called upon to do was to inquire. They were not desired to pass any law, but they were desired not wilfully to shut their eyes against all information on the subject. He was afraid his Majesty's Government were not sufficiently aware of the importance of the commerce which the present system tended to destroy. If the existing duty were taken off, although no immediate advan tage would be derived by the Exchequer, yet an in direct advantage of the greatest importance would ensue from the animation which would be imparted to our commerce, and which would circulate like the life blood 'through all the veins of this great Empire. Considering the magnitude of the , subject, and the duty imposed on Parliament of giving tt their most (serious attention, he trusted that the motion, of the Honourable Gentleman, for the appointment of a Committee, would be acceded to. Lord CASTLEREAGH, while he admitted that on•the general principle there was great temptation to the adoption of the Honourable Gentleman's pro position, yet contended that it ought to be considered with reference so particular circumstances. He was persuaded that, %oder those circumstances, the re sult of the proposed inquiry would be to reject the measure recommended by tie Honourable Gentle man, and pending that inquify much agitation and unpleasant feeling would be created in a part of the Empire, which it was most. desirable to soothe and conciliate. As to the statements made by the Ho nourable Gentleman, who had just spoken, of the de cline of our foreign commerce, be conceived them to be only the ordinary indications of a change from a state of war to one of peace. For his own part, be was glad to find that some foreign ships were found where during war no foreign ship bad been able to go, as it strewed that the commerce of Continental Lurope was not altogether chilled and annihilated ; and as he was convinced that this country would de rive more benefit from the extent to which her com mercial transactions would be carried in peace, than itom the commercial monopoly which she bad pc,- Transit Doty would not serve the Irish manufac turer, and the latter were equally certain of it. The Right Hon. Member concluded by stating, that the present questltn should not be considered solely in commercial point of view, but also in a politic,t! one. That its consequence wonld involve great agit4t.on, which it should be the duty of Parliament rather to allay than stimulate. Mr. ROBINSON observed, that he differed in his opinion of this question from the' Noble Lord (Castlereagh) and the Right Hon. Gentleman who sat near him.* To him the question did nut appear as likely to injure the Irish manufacturer ; but as it appeared from the speech of his Right Hon. Friends (Mr. Peel and Mr. V. Fitzgerald), that the adoption of a Committee would be likely to produce irritatioa in Ireland, he should oppose the motion. Mr. Alderman ATKINS and Mr. FultBES supported the motion. Lord CASTI.EREAGH ezplaine4. Mr.'WhIAUGHTON opposed the appointment of a Committee. Sir 3. NEWPORT lamen , ed that such a motion as the present should have been made at all, but par ticularly on the eve of the discussion of the quest;on respecting Ireland. Mr. (INLAY replied, and •contended, that the measure which he bad in view would benefit Ireland. He observed, it would be but fair to inquire how far Ireland and the Empire at large would be benefited by returning to that system, with regard to this trade, which existed before the war. It had been said that I a great deal of alarm existed in Ireland cn eria sub ! ject, but it existed from misconception. It arose 1 from an opinion. that the trade in foreign linens was to be entirely thrown open, to the prejudice of Ire. land. He concluded lay saying, that if the Honse should consent to the appointment of a Committee. be should be prepared to satisfy Members, that the repeal of the Transit Duties would be a great bene fit to the Empire. The House then divided—For the Motion, S 3— Against it, lUB—Majority, 85. RETRENCHMENT. Lord GEORGE CAVENDISH said it would not be necessary for him to enter into any &via en the subject of the present motion. The papers pro duced and laid OR the table of the House gave such ample information with respect to the revenue and expenditure of the country, and its present distressed situation, that he had little else to de than to draw the attention of the House to -that situation, and to recommend to the House such a line of conduct as would reader it necessary for his Majesty's Ministers to adopt the most rigid system of economy. It would be stated, perhaps that his Majesty's Ministers had already revised the Estimates for the year, and shewn a spit it of retrenchment. He rejoiced that they had at left thought proper to give in reduced estimates, soreitlir.tanding their stetemento en siihmirtiny the original estimates to the House that the establish. merit was as low as it could be brought consistently with the safety of the country. It must be a matter of satisfaction to the House, that it was only in con sequence of what passed in Parliament and the voice raised in the country, that the reductions in question had taken place, and this ought to urge them to con tinue a line of conduct by which farther retrench. ments might be effected. There sever was a period when the external relations of the country were more favourable for retrenchment than the present; all the great Powers of the Continent were in great financial distress, and France was without either army or navy. The present establishments of the country could not fail to create alarm in every think. ing mind, not only in a constitutional view, but front the effect they Would necessarily have in incieasing the difficulties of the country. On the present scale of our expenditure it was impossible that those diffi culties could be relieved—this could alone he dove by reducing the establishments and by retrenchment. The Noble Lord concluded by moving an humble , Address to the Prince Regent, the object of which was to recommend a further reduction of our esta blishments as indispensably necessary in the present distressed state of the country. Mr. J. P. GRANT was as much a friend to smill economy as other people, but it was not a reduction of part of the Staff of our Army, it was not a reduc tion of £lOO,OOO from the Ordnance Estimates, it was not the discharge of a few clerks, which could at this time save the country. Its situation could nut now be looked at without feeling the greatest edam. The whole amount of the sums to be. provided for in the year was 4131,683,000. Ot this the establisa- Runts of the country famed Upwards of twenty-right millions. But this was not all. It was usual to charge two-seventeenths of our expenditure to the account o f the Treasury of Ireland ; but such was the situation of that country this year, that its finances were not equal even to the payment of the interest of its debt; and we should have this year, besides the 2-17ths al ready mentioned, to make up a deficiency in the Irish Debt, and the expense of the Irish Civil Lig, Amounting to X 997,380. Adding this sum to the £31,G83, the whole would amount to upwards of thirty-two millions and a half. To meet this sum, the whole ways and means, including the surplus in the hands of the Chancellor of the Excnequer, amounted to £12,700,000. Deducting this from the £52,680,000, the amount of our expentlituie iu tnis first year of peace, the deficiency would be found to amount to no less than £19,91a,000. . It would be consolatory to think that this - deficiency arose in any great degree from the charges of winding up the war, charges not likely to occur again. But there was unfortunately no such hope.. How much did the House believe, on the present scale of our esta- Wishment, could be deducted from this deficiency of 191 millions in future years Oue million would have in future years to be added to our expenefiture for the sum to be borrowed either from the Bank, or by Exchequer Bills in the present year. He would ask the House to consider whereabouts we stand, when in the first year the puce we should be