Star. — London, England, 1809-12-14 00:00:00

IP P I I : I ~ COURT OF COMMON COUNCIL, „After some prefatory business, Mr. Sheriff WOOD stated to the Court, that, in obedience to the Resolu tions of the Corporation, the Sheriffs had waited upon his Maj sty, to learn his gracious pleasure respecting the day on which he would be pleased to rt.ceive the Address of the City of London ; and that his Ma jesty had been pleased to appoint Wednesday, the 20th instant for that purpose, at two o'clock, at the Que:nf.; House. A variety of private business, petitions, &c. occu pied the attention of the Court fur a considerable time ; after which, the requisition for assembling the Court, for the purpose of teconsidermg the Address to his Majesty which had been voted on the sth inst. was read, together with the signatures of those who had requested it. Mr. Sheriff Ars:lss then rosy and addressed the Lord Mayor--He had no intention of taking up the t of the Court ; indeed he did not conceive it to be wcessary to say much, as he had already circulattl and published his reasons for the requisition. His v:ews of the merits of the Address which had been voted by the Court were still exactly those which he had stated. It was his wish ever to bow to the deci sions of the Court ; but it must occur to every one, that the Address, as drawn up by the Committee, was carried at an unusually late hour, and that many Gentlemen had previously left the Court. The Lan guage of the Address appeared to be conceived in great warmth, and was therefore deserving of a re consideration. The shortest way for him to pursue was, he thought, to move for the reading of the Ad dress, as it stood ; and he hoped that every Gentle man would then fairly and dispassionately consider whether the lanr,ttage was such as became the dignity of the Corporation of London; whether it, was likely to give satisfaction to the Country at large, and whe ther it treated his Majesty with that respect which is due to the exalted rank of the Sovereign. The Ad dress had lain, in the usual manner, at the Remem brancer's Office ; but he believed there were many members who had not yet read it. Wishing to shorten She business of the day, he should, if no better mode were pointed out, .conclude for the present, by mov ing the rcadii.g of it, which he did accordingly. Mr. DtxoN seconded the motion. Mr. Sheritl . ATKINS then observed, that there might plrhaps arise some objections to reading the Address before the Public ; if so, the Court would decide on that point. He might, after the reading, state his particular objections more fully. Mr. SAMUEL DIXON said, that it was to him ex tremely painful to observe, that if the Address were read, he must adhere to the practice of the Court, which excluded all strangers from below the Bar, while an Address to the Sovereign was reading in the Court. Mr. MARRIOT said, that the question of the stran gers leaving the Court was not under their conside ration as yet. It was necessary, first of to de cide whether or no the reading of the Address should take place. Mr. Alderman Comm observed, that all the esta blished customs and usual ceremonies connected with the voting an Address to the Throne, had, in the pre sent instance, been perfectly complied with. The Committee appointed by the Court, consisting of all he Aldermen and a Common Councilman from each Ward, had met and discussed the Address, paragraph by paragraph, and had agreed upon and presented it to the Court, by which it had been regularly carried. He could not conceive any reason for reconsideration, nor ;tie I :roprieLy of dim throwing a slur upon the proceedings, or on the non-attendance of Mem bers. Those who were:absentees on the occasion must be presumed in the sense of the majority of the Court. remembered that, upon that occasion, almost ailAthe nine Aldermen who were in the minority went away, instead of staying and discussing the Address. Ile did not see any grounds for imputing a want of dignity in the Court, or a want of respect to his Ma jesty, in the adoption of the Address. It seemed to lAe. the object of reconsidering; the Address, insidi ously to reflect upon the Committee which had pre• pared it, and whose conduct was sanctioned by the Court. Mr. Sheriff :root; remarked, that Mr. Sheriff At )(ins himself was upon the Committee. The mention of die lateness of the hour as a reason for the requisi tion was, in his ears, quite a new doctrine. There was not the slightest degree of irregularity in the pro ceedings. An Address wa,s nevor more unanimously drawn up by a Committee ; and so far from being done hastdy and warmly, it had occupied two h: ins debb;'ration. The lanpage of it would, hr thought, do great credit to the character of ..he Cor p rrain of the of Lonticn. The Sheriffs had waited on his Majesty to know his Royal pleasure. For what To learn when he would be graciously pleased to receive the Address. What was that Ad dress hat the one which was p issed, and then read) to del:ver ? Some communi,:ation from the City to the Ministry had,' perhaps, been the cause of the re.' ceps.. of t 11:! Address not being appointed for an earlier day. But, however, the answer on the first application was from the Secretary cf state, that his, Majesty would see the sheriffs of London on Mon day. On Monday the Sheriffs received the Royal pleasure for Wednesday next; and now it vas pro posed to change that very Address, for receiving which from the Corporation the Sovereign had noon 'rated a day. He should conclude by moving an Amendment, by which, after leaving out aff..the i crds following the word " that," the Court might express its opinion on the impropriety of the - present trocceding. The Amendment rar _hus : " whenever an idAtlress or Petition im-y,oted Miti . lMi-jc sty by this Court, i! is the established usage to 'Oeler fardiveith ty upon his Majt , ,tT, to know hltohilif"fill and ple. , sare he will receive the fame; that lit :vltld be con trary to lb? establißhed practice o f thirt Court, and - Impeaching tl:e duty of the:- .hlividuals who, having bet ii prest.nt ;: n Lddre , •: w.ts did tv Col ti:tr.! their tote till it •was r; °duce!. diszUN'. ii.ll, to re-discuss such roceedings ; nos could any other Addre.s propriety be 6111)51144:ttI L ; and that' any s u c h atte: . : - •.t, espe.ciAly a r th e long and full .:i ,- teisiort which took plac th e C , ort, would not oll:y be hi• y improper an d dero, ; .o:)ry to the honour and rhara..r• o: ti , Calm, but yryrild lead v disordirn• g , rara y *,r ti prole.(t:rgs." Mr. GI:m.111o: mad sever. ,tranT fthst:rytttions thecono—ict of o, 0! If. . .10 Ordtr,Order.) He vindicated the of the Commit;ec. To-re etas one Member v..1i0 obi Ltvd to an addres, altogether ,sit the ton.mittee aI,J %% ent into the ours. Mr. lieowN S4,d, that 1 was scrry ht: ha..l uor. oven present on the fore sef Oteasion.' Thougls'he did not ' entertain strong objections to the amendment, elet he felt a wish that the Address should be read ; because' , he was certain that, in that case, it would . be passed in that Court, not by a majority of one, but .by a I great majority of one of the largest Courts that had ever been assembled. He could see no sufficient rea- • son adduced in the published letter of the worthy She- ' riff, to incline him to the proposed reconsideration : nor yet in the paragraph which had been inserted in the newspapers, and which paragraph, he presumed, the worthy Sheriff would not object to avow. (" I de," said Mr. Sheriff Atkins.) He would confidently contend, that there was no reason for this measure. The general voice of the City of London had pro claimed its opinion on the propriety of the Address. Its inhabitants had declared their opinions on this ine eortant subj ect. The absentees, he contended, must he taken as agreeing to the decision of the Court.— There was no ether principle en which the Court could act. He declared he could see nothing that was disrespectful to the House of Brunswick in the Address which had been voted—nothing in it that was derogatory to the power of Parliament. He saw nothing in it but what was fit for the Citizens of Lon don to do in times like these. He was, himself, no party man. He did not go, in all cases, to the lengths of some with whom he now, and upon some other oc casions, agreed in political opinions. But it was quite impossible for him to view, without a strong and just indignation, the glaring and gross attempts of Mini sters at their own self-aggrandizement, at the expence and risk of the best interests of the nation. When the dignity of that Court was spoken of, surely it was not meant to say that its dignity was to be consulted by such a measure as this. They were not to uphold their dignity by acting like children—undoing one day what they had deliberately and solemnly resolved upon a day or two preceding. Sir CHARLES PRICE differed in opinion in the pre , sent case from many of those with whom be generally . agreed. lie thought that the absentees must be con . sidered as agreeing to the decision, and that the dig nity of the Court was best consulted by adhering to its resolutions. There was, he would venture to say, • no man in the. City of London more firmly attached . to his beloved Sovereign than he was; but he thought that one vote was enough as a majority to bind the Court, and that the matter ought, therefore, to go on of course. Nevertheless, he held the same opinion on the Address which he had held all along. He did not attend the Committee, for he would not have lent his countenance or put his hand to a proceeding which he thought as disrespectful as could possibly be to his Sovereign. But, however, such was the will of the Court. He wished the Address to be made public, , that the sense of the public might be known upon it. and he believed, that like the verdict of a Jcry on Monday last, it would produce one sentiment through , out the country. ( A cry of order, in consequence of . some interruption supposed to proceed from below the • bar.) The worth! Baronet proceeded to state, that . he was glad to see Gentlemen below the bar, who were hearing what passed ; and he hoped, that what he had said would go out to the public at large. One or two Members spoke whose names we could not learn. One, we understood, was Mr. Lucas.— They contended that matter was introduced into the Address extraneous from the original motion, and the speech by which it was recommended, and that there was no difference of opinion as to the fitness of an in quiry ; it having been even stated by an Hon. Baronet (Sir W. Curtis), that if Parliament did not take up Cie business, he was ready to be among the foremost to propose an Address to the King. It was more proper to wait for Parliament, and very wrong to be. have disrespectfully to the Throne. Mr. MAWMAN expressed his utter astonishment at the language of the worthy Baronet (Sir C. Price) who had expressed a wish that the Address should be made public, in order to collect the public disappro bation of the proceedings of the Corporation. Good Heavens ! Did any man wish for that, who valued the dignity of the City of London ? It was the first, and he hoped it would be the last time that he should ever hear such a sentiment. He thought, notwithstanding, the present Address did not se riously require reconsideration. He agreed that we were placed in an extraordinary crisis of public affairs, and that it was incumbent on the country I to know that Ministers were persons who were fit j to be trusted with the interests of the netioa. So far he agreed with the spirit of the Address..— But it found fault, in an unqualified way, with I Ministers, and also with one of our Commanders, who is absent. It was inconsistent and it,.just is, call ( for inquiry, and, at the same time, to pronounce judgment. Mr. WA ITIYMAN began by complimenting the abi lities which had been this day displaced by a Gentle ma.l who sat near him (Mr. Brown), and w:th whose ideas he was very much inclined to concur. He must, however, in this instance, speak in some degree in op position to his feelings. His feelings, with respect to the Address which was passed at the last Court, were, that there was not a sentence or a word in it which conveyed any disrespect to his Majesty, or which would not do honour to that Court. At the same time he did not see the necessity, and he should vote against the reading it again en the present occasion. On the last day, the Gentleman who now wished to reconsider the Address had abundant opportunity for entering fully into the question. There was not a single point included in the Address upon which he had not dwelt at some length ; and every Member that had attended his duty had a sufficient opportu nity of objecting. He had mentioned in his speech something respecting Sir Arthur Wellessley ; and it did aliifear to him, that if any British General was to march into a country without having more than three days provisions, and without the means of obtaining provisions, this was prima facie a ground of inquiry. The same might be said of Lord Chatham. The disastrous failure of his expedition was certainly a sufficient ground for an inquiry. Was it to be en ...tired, that after a full Court had come to a decision, after sitting from twelve o'clock until eight o'clock in the evening, a proposition should be brought to revise that decision, as if there had been any thing of sur pri. in it ? It had been his lot to have been gene rally in minorities, and there never was a decision of that body which he thought more infamous or degra ding to it, than the vote for a monument to Mr. Pitt, He had opposed that vote, and had been left in a minority ; but after having fought that battle as wolf• as he was able, it never occurred to him that he had ,any right to call upon the Court afterwards so panic and rescind that resolution.. He bad -at •the last CoUrt gone °vet, for some hours, the grounds upon which the Resolution was founded, and he thought it would be hard that any Gentleman who had not paid him any attention on that occasion, should now call upon him to go over those grounds again. All the opposition •on the former day was not to tile points upon which the Address had been moved, but went upon a point which tended to subvert thQ Con stitution altogether, by taking away the right of petitioning. On a former day, those who opposed the Andress, still agreed that an enquiry was neces sary, and pledged themselves that i f Parliament should not take up the business, they would come down on a future occasion and support an Address for an en quiry. One Gentleman had this day objected to the Address, as conveying an improper reflection upon the Parliament ; but it did not appear that our ancestors had ever been so very delicate m their ideas of the right of petitioning. In the days of James 11. our ancestors had presented petitions in the strongest language, complaining of the not calling Parliaments. There was little difference in point of injury to the country, between not calling a Parlia ment at all, and having a corrupt bought-up Parlia ment. As to the language used in the Address, he had a book of Petitions and Addresses of the Corpo ration to the Throne; and he would defy any Gen-1 demon to point out a single Address or Petition which was worded in more moderate or respectful lan guage than the present. In the days of James the Second, as he had before observed, immediately pre ceding the Revolution, there were many petitions to the Sovereign, praying him to assemble Parliament. At that time there were a number of gentlemen (the very counterparts of many Members of that Court), who expressed at that time great horror at such disrespectful petitions being forwarded ; but it was most evident that the right of petitioning would be of no value, if it was not to be elercised in cases of such importance. Although these gentlemen, in the times of James the Second, thought it so disrespect ful to.his Majesty to petition for convening Parlia ment, the Parliament, on the other hand, thought it quite proper, and voted that whoever attempted to take away the right of petitioning, was endeavouring to subvert the Constitution. Parliament also then shelved its opinion respecting the importance of the right of petitioning in a more marked manner. Before that time, the votes of the House of Commons were not printed; but they were then ordered to be printed in-order that their resolutions on this subject should be more generally known. Immediately after the Revolution, the first step taken by Parliament was to recognize, by the Bill of Rights, the right which the subjects had to petition. In a case somewhat similar to the present (but by no means so disastrous), the Corporation had gone up to his Majesty with an Ad ' dress, praying for an enquiry into the circumstances attending the capture of Minorca. The great Lord Chatham was at, that time Minister, and he was a man, who might be considered as not inferior to Mr. Perceval, or any of his Majesty's present. Ministers- .- and yet that great man, so far from being displeased at the interference of the City, advised his Metjes:y, King George the Second, to congratulate his Parlia ment on the interest which his people took in support of the honour of his crown. The Sheriffs had, upon this occasion, waited upon his Majesty, to know when he would be pleased to receive the Address, and had received their answer. It would, therefore, not be pos sible now to send him another address, different from that which had been voted, and which he promised to receive. If it were otherwise, a very moderate address might be agreed to at one C.urt, and t very violent one substituted in the place of it a: another. In considering the conduct of the GeTlemen at the other side, it really appeared to him that they did not know how to conduct themselves either in pros perity or adversity. When they were in prosperity, there was no bound to their exultation and triumph; they were completely overjoyed, and dealt out abuse or insinuations very liberally to those who differed from them ; but whenever they had the worst of the battle, and apprehended that they were in a minority, they ran a gay, and endeavoured to set aside the pro ceedings at some future Court. Most of :rc discus sions which had taken place lately on those subjects, I had originated, or been provoked by them 7 for, as to t his part, he h a d not , f or t h e l ast 19 month ' s, agitated any of those questions, except that which engaged the attention of the last Court. As to any alteration in !the address, they had only proposed the adoption of one clause, which made the Address absolutely stronger than it was before. With respect to the observations of the Worthy Alderman (Sir C. Price) he did not know how to attack him, as he had been so candid. It was, however, a curious thing to hear a Member of that Court profess that he wished an ; Address to be published, because it would be de grading to the Court. This certainly shewed that there were other considerations much nearer to his heart, than the honour of the Corporation of which he was a Member. He was surprised on the last day, and thought that something was brewing, when he saw the Court attended by many Aldermen who were old and infirm, and not in the habit of attending (a I cry of Order, Order!) When he said old and infirm, Ihe did not mean that age or infirmity was any re proach, but he used the words because some of those very Aldermen had refused to preside over meetings of their wards upon those grounds. He had been I often accused of personality in debate, and he would now explain the ground on which he thought it was justified. He was not angry with any man for having a contract or a job ; but if such a man came forward and imputed to him disloyalty, he was justified in stating, that he had those contracts, and then leaving his motives to be inferred ; and if he saw an ass wrapped up in a lion's skin, he did not hesitate to cut the skin open. As to the objection which the Mover (Mr. Sheriff Atkins) had made to the Address in the Committee, it was simply this: he objected to the words awful crisis, and when his objection was overruled by the Committee, lie said, that he found his arguments were not attended to, and immediately left the room, and then conceived himself justified in slandering a Committee, which had been appointed by the Court in the regular way, aad which had a right to claim its protection. Is was indeed a little, provok . ng to find the Gentlemen on the other side endeavouring to monopolize all the honour, charac 'tell- and understanding of the Court to themselves. He tf bught he might say, that in public and in pri , yatn character, he was on an equAlity with any other r Umber, and 1 hotigh he was inferior !o opulence, he wa equal to any in independence. Waithman then :ead a nitniker of pissa , ;:-.; from i.• met - Addresses of• the City, which he ste.t..A finitely stronger than tl:e language of th;.: He also read, from some of thew, the , this sae! crisis. Now, he would ask :my !;•,,iy, Cher they could point out a period in our hi-e or y, 7. the term sad crisis, or alijid plied than at the present? After reaclii , : ro • , passages from former Addresses, he ~ tit book, which was originally puhlishc:i f poration, had gone out of print, and • be reprinted either at the expence of the,'.,,;:-pl or by subscription. He heped that d f:.:re.rat • would, on the present occasion, see I.:e going up to the King with language Lola and not unworthy of what their ancestcei. h a d I .•" ; 74 less momentous occasions. As to th ,- :::17en breasts were always overflowing will: wondered they had no feeling for their coun!ry, r its brave army. Although our army was brave 1 and excellent, how could it be expected to remain 1), if the affairs of the country continued te be col:d•!-• in so profligate a manner, that their valoer wa, • , gether useless to their country ? Could it be e x:: that any serious Inquiry would take place same Ministers, and while Lord Obatham binet Minister? Did they expect it would take ; . • when such pains had been taken hi one, lately al .:. body (Mr. Canning), to shew that the author measures which ended in the Convention of . the planner of the Walcheren Lxredltion (1.0-u tlereagh), was not removed from office, either such misapplication of the public force, or for the oa ruption in which he was detected, but on etc,: .ds totally different? The nation wanted a due and rrop e enquiry, and not such an enquiry as Nlinistr-es wish to set forward. Mr. Dixon said, Ile would not follow the Lc Speaker over those topics, which he had so before repeated. He believed, however, that ti Gentlemen on the other side, who calculated 01 large majority, would find themselves miserably taken. If they had been beaten on a firmer ecc.is they shewed that ally knew how to rally. He thoei the Address agreed to at the last meeting ought ni to be adopted, at least until it was seen what Parli anent would do. He had another objection to Address, that it differed in many points from notice. W Mr. JACKS said, he was as friendly to the princi ple and practice of petitioning and addressing the Throne, as the warmest advocate of the raiclutic::: voted ; but it was with this undorstand:ng, that these petitions or addresses should he couches in language befitting the City to utter, and the Sover6 s n to helar, Thar this rule was not always strictly adhered to, he had the authority of an eminent Barrister, who :s distinguished by the name of u tl e hoilest to assert. The " honest Cour.sliur" was eny,aged in a cause of libel, in which he attempte I to defend his client for writing libels, becau.e the City of I cr, don had voted libels. Jndeed, as be underztc,d, the " honest CoLnsellor" was in 3 state of (Or.kr! Order ! I Mr. Jacks thotaght the Addtess was disrespectful to his Majesty. Tie thee tbjected to the words " awful crisis," and dwelt at treat length on the increase.of our trade, as evinced by the exports and imports. Alderman CmitsTontEß SMITH followed NI the same side, and also spoke of the flourishing situatiu of our trade. Mr. WHEBLE was against rescinding the vo:e, which was, as he c onceived, a p ract i ce quite unusual. In the House of Commons, upon Lord Melvilis case, a majority of one decided that he should tie ' brought to trial, and nobody ever thought of endea vouring to undo that vote, merely because the mlio• rity was small. ! Mr. KEMBLE said, that he was instructed by his c.j:. StitLICIAS to vote for this Address, and yet he ]cud never heard it read, and did not know NVILit it He therefore anxiously wished that it should I.e • and concluded by paying high compliments to the : virtues of the Sovereign. Mr. Sheriff Amms did not derv,. the right of pe:i tioning ; but it ought to be exercised in a respe.::ful manner. His Majesty must feel his dignity woundci, if he were to receive addresses or petitions, which were not couched in respectful language. He cent fessed, that the country had great reason to complain, and that its best hopes were disay• pointed by the result of the late expedition. He had on a former occasion (that respecting Mr. Wardle) voted against E::e le? scinding the Resolution of a preceding Court bat he conceived the present case was widely differeft. He did not consider the country in any awful crisis, and did not like to use desponding language. E.*. i did think that some of the conduct of Ministers dt• served contempt ; but disapproved of the Address as not sufficiently respectful. ' Alderman WOOD was surprised at so many I`:fer:, hers now demanding that the Address should be read, ' that they might understand it and vote accordingly . Why were they not at the Court on ti e propel ki.iy for hearing the Address ? Now indeed they were willing to vote an Address. They had it rads is their iiaciets—they had one of their own chusing.— Were these people afraid to go up to his Majesty with a firm and manly Address ? They need fear no rebuke from his Majesty, although indeed his Mi• nisters might reproach them, as lie remembered en the Cintra Address the Lords went about with their giasses, pointing out to Sir Arthur Wellesley this man and that man, who had voted so and sc. Tie Members, in a case of that kind, were very dssvno hearted ; when in the City, they crowed like cocks-- when at Court, they hung down their heads. Mr. LI:CAs thought it wrong to cast reflections upon a General before enquiry. Mr. WAITIJMAN was very ready to acknowlege that Members ought to go up to his Majesty with an Ad dress couched in the most respectful terms. Although he had read some violent Addresses of a former pe riod, it was not to be inferred that he thought such Address. es ought to be sent up now. No, he had rcisi those Addresses only for the purpose of contrast tor the purpose of shelving that the present Address w:1; not so very violent as the Corporation in former time: . thought they had a right to prefer. The present AO dress, in his opinion, was suited to the present tirnc•• it was such as would do honour to t! f lings every Briton ; as far as he could see, there was no reflection w!r4tever cast upon his Majesty. who came forward now, he believed, would be v&T'T • ;' •., t • 'lt t”.•. • , 1 ra4 e 1 1 • :1 • -• • :,-. '..e %-45- f- br c,r. .dS List ten the 01 • mi Is:( ttgb: t not the inci- ; the hose cage ), :s Om' ag'ed :fond I r:rty. dress ected treat y the ; the vo;e, isut3. Id tie ndea- ; : Ltd :o the aLki, Phich cent i.• •esalt asit.a :e le? bat s dt; ss as fern, -e: d, Igly. ,verto is s. jest. 7 iear ;4, .• A on their this ks tions that Ad- pe.• such ; tot va rid. no. 110 ;io?e. V .:. ~t