Star. — London, England, 1804-07-04 00:00:00

16..., PaIRLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LOADS, TUESDAY, JULY 3. The Royal Affent by Comm Mon (the Lord Chancellor, Earl Camden, and Lord Watanikani fitting as Cuninenionernd two s) WWI given t o the Higlitrod Ronda and Bridge‘the Curn,a Private Bina The Bilie 'rpm the table were forwarded In thcir [event Raga. 'Their Lonlildpe then adjourned during pleafure. After a Own the Houle returne When the itnervel Conan' Regulation Bi ll, and the. BM for more effeettaßy preventing the C o unterfeiting the Silver Coin et the Rahn, and one private 818, were received front the Cornmeal, and fevasEy read a Grit t i me . CIRCULATION, OP DOLtaae. Van the Bank Dollar Bill wsa read from the Woolfaek, Lord GRENVILLE Tore, and Rated that at this late period of the Siffion, it was not his intention to provoke a ferious difctilLon of the Bill before their Lordfhips, as important, in his opinion, as any that bad lately been fubmitted to their confideration. His objea in rifing was to make his verbal proteft againft the principle of the meafure. on the grounds that it was unconftitutional, impolitic, and pregnant with what he mull call grofs fraud and deception. It was objeaionable in a legal view in no left than two points. He much doubted whether his Mainly could delegate his privilege of impreffing money to any in. dividual fubjefl in his dominion, and he Was alfo in clined to doubt his Majefty's authority to aut horise any of his fubjeas to illue money fo impreffed. He would not at prefent go into a full cumin* , ion of thole two confederations, but receive the difcuffion of them until neat Sernon, when he Retold think it bis duty tb bring the fubjea before their Lordships in that ge neral and enlarged (hape which the importance of the great ititerefts it involved fo amply entitled it to.— ne only part of the queftion on which be would Gordy trefpafs on their I.(lolips' attention this even I lag, was that which related to the impolicy of the meafure. To all thofe who had the faulleft acquaint atm with the fcieuce of political economy.there was', no truth more evident than this, that the praaice which was fotnetimes recurred to by Governments, of Hieing debated coin, or in ocher words, of coin bear ing a higher denomination than it was intrinfically worth. was one moll injurious and unproduaive in the experiment ; unproduaive, becaufe it produced no advantages to the Government; and injurious, becaufe it was invariably detrimental to the intueb of the country where it was iffued. The enaftere which the Bill before their Lordfhipa went to and s°. vim he molt cmtlider partaking of ell thrift nsifddefa sad inceaveeheass. What was the profefed abbe OE k I It win neither store sot Ws than this, to awl *wise the Bank to make that pars cutest for Ns which in reality was only worth four GA. fixpence. or perhaps lets. What would be re enallequence to the palest who received this de loafed onto t why it would operate to his difadvan sage of a ratio of ten per cent. if be were under the sturdy of receiving four of thole Dollars, or tokens as they were called , wh ich were oely worth ilk payment of a pound Ruling. His Lordfbip confi ‘ tiered the meatus which the prefent Bill went to fanaion, as one arifing out of that molt impolitic and nnjuftifiable Rep, the reftriaion upon the Bank of' , England from making payments in fpecie. Their Lordfhilis bad a boas proof before themthat it I was no lefs true in politics than in morals, , one tea of injuftice invariably led to the commilioa of ascaber. Had the reariaion upon the Bank sever takes place, moll probably their Lordfliips maid ass bays bees allied upon to give their famaion to the maw beebefore than; which.te his opiniusolna with impolicy, injueice, and fraud. It was is r l it e t contemplatica. be underflood, to extend the mifehief to Ireland, and to make thole tokens pals even for a greater value there. If the perfons who promoted this sinecure had been guided by any equitable prin ciples of policy in their plan, Rarely they would sot have fent the greater evil into that pan of the em pire which was the molt impoverifbed and the leaf! Twice. He would fay nothing further on the fubjea at prefent, but repeat that it was his intention to pro. pofe a full difeeffion of the general principle of the anafure in the eourfe of the tatting Sefton. Lord HAWKESBURY did not think that what bad fallen from the Noble Baron called upon him to take up much of their Lordfltips' time. The obfer stations which he had thrown out were certainly not called for by the Rage in which the Bill now before the Houfe was. Much convenience had refulted to the public from the iffue of thole Dollars, and he thought, that while they were allowed to form a g=dproportiou of our circulating me dium, they be protected by law againft the diflionefty of thole who might be tempted t count er o counrfeit them.— He waked the Noble Bum to bear in mind, that thole Bank Dollars were not a legal tender, and there was DO nullity impaled upon any perfon receive them. It was entirely in the tfifuetion of individuals to accept them in payment, and he raw not what the injuftice or fraud was of accommodating the pub lic with that from which they had derived much be nefit. Lord GRENVILLE never meant to ground any part of his arguments spina tae Bill, upon the idea that it was intended to make theft Bank tokens a le gal tender. He never could conceive that any ra , tional Government would have given its fare Lion to fo extraordinary a principle, as that a debated coin fbould be received in payment at more than its inuin tic value. JUDOS FOX. g The Marquis of ABE RCO RN prefe nted a Petition a ainft the Hon. Jolliet Fox, from Gerard Irwin, rig. High Sheriff of the county of Fermanagh ; alfo, a Petition from the Petty Jury of the (aid county, at the laft autumn utilizes ; and moved that they lie on the Table, an d that a copy of each be fent to Judge Fox. The LORD CHANCELLOR, having left the Woe obierved, that the Petition s were le the io the .6 Lords Spiritual aod Temporal. and the Commons in Parliament alembled." This was quite novel, anJ be could not. for his part, content to sr ceive Petitions fo informal. The Marquis of A BERCORN raid, be had, in compliance with the advice of a Learned and Noble Lord on a former day, battened to place !heti Peti tions on the Table, its order to reduce the charges agaioft Judge Foe to a precife from. With refpea to the informality, he had confulted legal and par liamentary authority, and was allured that it was not mateital. A Petiti. it had, in fal, been prefented to he mbar Rode. addreffed is the fame manner, that h to both Hoofer, and a pen bad been put through 1 the fuperfluous words. For his part, he would never alter a word of any Petition fent to him. He had refolved to keep his hands clean. throughout the whole traufaition. It was for their Lordlhips to de termine, whether they would receive the Petitions, or tele* them. The LORD.CHANCELLOR repeated bis objec tion to the Petitions. The Duke of NORFOLK Paid, that forms were often nearly allied to the fubflanee. He thought them important in the prefent cafe ; and moved, that the Petitions be referred to a Committee of Prece dents, to enquire if, notwitbßanding the informality, they could be received. The Earl of ROSSLYN (aid, the fuperfluous words were evidently inferted through the ignorance of the parties; they intended the Petitions to be prefented to the Houfe of Peers. He Ibould, therefore, have made o temple of putting a pen thrugh the fuper fiuonsn words, as fulfilling the intenti o on of the Peti tioners. The Marquis of ABERCORN Paid, it was for the Houfe to difpofe of the Petitions ; he was no more c oncerned in them than any of their Lordfhips he w ould,, in no cafe, however , alter a Petition ; and he only begged their Lord Chips to remember, that no delay had occurred on his part. He had ufedhis utmoß diligence to put the matter into that Rate which teemed to be required of him by the (cafe of the Houle. Earl STANHOPE raid, the Noble Marquis had done well not to alter the Petitions. He could not agree with the Noble Earl oppofite to him (the Earl ofßofslyn) ; the Petitions were addreffed to " the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and the Commons ;" the Noble Lord, might, therefore have put the pen through the Grit part of the addrefs, and prefented the Petitions to the other Houfe, on the principle of that advice. Lord GRENVILLE thought forms. in this cafe. of the highei importance, Saco there were proceed that inightosigioate a criminal primer., in which the Law and Coal,Wn demand the umon reel lion of forms; and this criminal proofs again& a Judge, one of the mitt important, certainly, that could be He therefore ropported the mo tion for ft the Petitions to a Committee of Pre cedents, who Weld be inaroared to report them. The motion for this was then agreed to. stain TRAPS tbOLITIOII. Lord HAWKESBURY having moved the Order of the Day for the freond reading of the Bill, Paid, that it was his iaisatiou, purfuunt to the notice he had given the a former evening, to move, that in- Read of the word • Dow," the words • this day three =oaths," amid be inferted. His Lordthip briefly rompstolated the arguments which he had urged on the Sr& reading of the Bill, the principal of which was that the *learnse had bees introduced at too late a period of the Seffioa to allow any reafonable hope that it could be pared before the riling of Parliament. Them were fo many interefts likely to be affeitted by the abolition, that their Lordthips could not, confir m* with that deliberation they bettowed on every meafure of fimilar importance, give the fubjea that meafored difcuffion it was to. He would me take up their Lordthips time at entitled prefent. but move that it be read a fecond time this day three months. The Doke of NORFOLK fupported the motion if the Noble Secretary of State, on the grounds that the Bill was brought forward at too advanced a pe riod of the Sefton. If Government were (aims in their lineations of abolithing that trade, he withed they had given Come decided proofs of it, by propo. fingthe meafure themfelves, and giving to it all the rapport that official power and lituation placed in their hands. He did not approve of feting the weight of Co important a meafure thrown on the thoolders of an individual Member of the Legate tore, however refpetiable he might be. He did not even with to fee a Bill for Infolvent Debtors, or any other meafure likely to affett the interefts of a confi derable number of perfons, introduced, without the concurrence or co-operation, of the Government. Earl STANHOPE could not refrain from expref fing his attainmen ha t at wt hagread f e allen from the two Noble Lords. He could not with them, that there exifted the leaft neceffity for pofiponing this meafure, important from Co many confiderations, until the nest Seffion. He faw nothing to prevent their Lordthips from coming to an immediate deci fion on the quenion. He would not allow men to come to their Lordfbips' bar, and ant to be permit ted to continue in the commiffion of crimes. Suppofe a fet of men who were in the prallice of forging coin on the coatis of Denmark or Norway, and that a Bill were brought in to prevent the introdultion of fuch forged fpecte, would their Lordibips fuffer fuch a let of rafcals to come to their bar, and petition either to be allowed to continue fuch nefarious praftices, or to obtain an indemnity for the lots of that emolu ment which they drew from it ? The Slave Trade was even worfe than that, infomuch as murder was more heinous than robbery. What was the Slave Trade? ' 1 It wasthe going and (citing. or purchafing from thole who had felted, a parcel of unhappy beings, over whom neither GOD nor nature gave us any controul. —His Lordniip, from information he had receiv ed fence he came down to the Houfe, would not trouble their Lordthips with dividing the Houfe, but he trolled that the fupporters of the Bill would re double their efforts againft the time Parliament fhould meet again, and that they would finally fucceed in abolithing a traffic, the real objea of which was to places t le the Slave Merchants of Liverpool and other o gormandire (wallow more 'coition, and to drink more claret. His Lordlhip would fay no more at that time—he had difcharged his confcience, and whenever the fubjea fhould be again brought forward, it fhould have his zealous and hearty fupport. Lord GRENVILLE oppofed the amendment The preamble oldie Biel, as fent up by the Houk of Commons, he ohferveJ, let out with Itating, that the Slave Trade was contrary to the principles of Inftice and humanity, and ought no longer to be continued- It was, itinerate, the duty of every Noble Lord, whole mind was convinced as to that tafl, to declare his fentiments, and to refit! the Noble Lord's amend ment fur poßprining the confuleration of this meafure to a future feffirm ; for if that rata was true, there was no confideratiuu which could be urged, oo proofs which mold be adduced. as to what property might be injured, or what lucrative commerce might be defrayed by this Bill, that ought ta weigh with the Honk on e moment, or induce the Legiflatore to de fer for a tingle day the abolition 'of this trade. Of the number of thofe who felt theniifelves pert:clay convinced of the wickednefs, the injultice, the inhu felf manity, and impolicy of this trade, he profeffed him upon that ground wife and upright nation, he would oppofe the further wbehicohnefhioualnddaltwhatyresfudire;ett the pol icy of a alone, delay of this Bill, under any pretence that further confideration or proof were necefrary, after the mats of information u p on this fubjeC already laid on their Lordlhipe table, and the full confideration the Coble& had already Co repeatedly received. But if even further confideration or proofs were n!cefrary, why poßpone it till the next feffinn of Parliament ? or what was to impede their Lordfhips from going as fully as neceffory into thofe proofs and con-fider ations during the remaining period of the prefent fef fion ? Many fubjetts of great importance were daily coming forward for their Lordlhips confideration, and had been recently likuffed with the utmoft fo lemnity and molt ample deliberation ; and if their Lordlhips propoled to go through the bufinefs now on their table, with the other fubjetts now in delibe ration elfewhere, and on their way for their Lord fhips' difeuf fi on, there was no reafon to apprehend the precut feffion would terminate without allowing ample time and opportunity for the rotten difcuffion neceffary upon the Bill now before the Houk. But fuppofe, even that, inßead of fitting till the middle of July, it might be necefrary for their Lordfhips to pro trait their fittings until the middle of Anguft for this ptirpokowosid their Lordlhips think this an argument to induce them to prefer the pleafures of an earlier recefs, to the humane purpofe of putting a period, fax months falser, to the horrors perpetrated on the coaß of Africa it In all events , by going into the confiderstion of this fubjett now, their Lordfltips would be the better prepared, not to deliberate but to decide, early in the next kilns, and thereby do themfdves the honour, as a Houfe of Brill& Legif- Were, of taking the lead of Europe in putting a pe riod to this abominable traffic ;but he was extremely lorry to conclude, from the manner in which the Noble Secretary of State delivered his fentiments for the aeceffity of delay, that if the amendment was adopted the dikuffion would be eventually poßponed not rely to the end of fix months, but to the end of t m he e nest, and probably the two following feffions of Parliament. The Earl of WESTMORELAND, in contem plating the prefent (late of this ovation, expected great fatisfadinn as a Member of that Houle, and great admiration from a general view of the Confti tution. As a Peer of the Realm, he took pride in the coofideration that the People at large, the mer chants interefted in the Slave Trade, and the Cola would fee that, though not reprefented in that Houk, yet that their Uttereds were as much attend ed to as if they were. In looking at the Conftitution he could not but admire the eraom of our anceitors, who bad divided the deliberative power into two parts, and encompared each with furl forms as neceffarily led to the correttion of any halty and ill. advifed meafure paffed in either Wilk. Advert. ing to the immediate queßion„ he thought it was in vain to enter upon a fubjeft of fuch great import, and under fuch cocumflances, when it was manifeß no deciflon could be come to. Having pained this train of reafoning in various points and views, be concluded by giving his decided fupport to the pro pofition of the Noble Secretary. The Bifhop of ST. ASAPH thought further de lay of this meafure wholly unn eceffar y ; and trufted it would not be felt by a British Haute of Parliament, necetary to difcufs, at any great length, whether a traffic fo utterly fubverfive ofjultice ar.d humanity... a traffic, as had been well noted by a Noble Earl (Stanhope), in human tears and groans—in human Meth and blond—and carried on under every criminal aggravation of cruelty—of chains—of murder, kould any longer continue to difgrace and degrade the eh:- ratter of the Britith nation. Did the Houle want further proof to decide its opinion whether or not per million was to be given to a fet of criminals to perk. vere in the perpetration of murders, of robberies, and other atrocious crimes, becaufe the trade was a lu crative one? Evidence was before brought to their Lordfhips' har to prove infinitely more man enough in fupport of the abolition of this traffic; and from the fpecimens he had witnelled of the tettimony given on that occasion in favour of the trade, be was not' much inclined to attach implicit credit to the evidence, even upon oath, of men intereßed in promoting and continuing this abominable traffic ; efpecially when fuch evidence was direftly contradifted by that of the log books of the carrying !hips, though not upon oath. In fad the conviction of the Slave trade on his mind was taken from the (worn teftimony of thole who were adduced in its defence. He wanted no proof whether the Well India planters were more or lei cruel to their flave., or whether they confidered them as mul or inweg—The proofs that were already abun dant, as well in the teilimony before the Houfe, as in the writings of African travellers, (hewed the fitu ation of the Africans in their own country, their pro grecs of civilization, and their Rate of happinefs in every part of the country uncontaminated by the Slave Trade ; and the proofs of the tortures infidel upon them in the Middle Paffage, were evidence of the foretofle of the kind of blifs they were to enjoy in the new Paradife, to which they were patting, in the Weft Indian Blonds. It was very potfible he might be called an enthufiall, or a prejudiced bigot, fur the opinions he now fpoke, by thole who were more in the habit of reconciling moral evils under the head of State Policy ; but in spite of the opinion of fuch hotelmen he had in hi► favour the maxim of the greatest hotelman in the wickedelt of all the Repub lics oo o named in f h A i te ry m ( . France excepted),as•hat the nain g el r y elt th eß e Republic (twice ruin to nation', was she want of will to do , (ample " This he held to be precifely the de fcription of that policy in which the Slave Trade was fupported ; and he feared, if the confuleration of the fubjett was now to be pottponed till the next Seflion of Parliament, it would, in drat, be an adjournment of the question, ad Grersu place trade. in but ts advocate whith had for takenth e rece nt a events nd Lord MULGRAVE (aid. that he was formerly an the We lt par ticularly in the ifiaod of St. Domingo. his opinion was Ca tioggered upon the fillijea. that fat was by no means prepared to make up his mind at this moment, whether use trade thnuld be continoed or not, or whether this Bill west far enough, es Gould sot go a great way farther, and effea an immediate and to tal emancipation of the Weft India Slave.. which. from what had fallen from a Noble . Earl early in the debate, he undertlood to bt the objea with the friends of this Bill. He thought, however, that cool delibera tion, and the further bearing of evidence, was indif penfable, and therefore he voted for the amendment. Earl STANHOPE explained, by raying, he never meant the emancipation of the Slaves in the Welt Indies to be otherwife than gradual. Lord fiARROWBY was glad to hear this expla nation from the Noble Earl, as heolways underflocd the immediate and total emancipation of the Welt India Slaves, was intended to follow up this His Lordfltip thought delay till neat Selfion smeary. and voted for the amendment. Earl ST. VINCENT esprefed his approbation to the amendment brought forward by . the Noble Secre tary of State, and fad it was his omaion, that if this BM peed. every white perfoo ink e Britifit Weft India Mauls wapiti be eaVesMat The Doke,ol Claft.WCE emoted math aftm niihment at the &arises which be this night beard. that the Bill &odd ph without further delberatiou, or without bearing the petkiooers. pr their evidence againll it. As a Benito, sad sChrilliatt, he had al ways learned to refpea the Welty of an oath. as the pledge of tenth assd between mankind, on which property and life were perpetually flaked ; but this night, for the frit tisne. and Row a figh tRt Re verend-Prelate. be leased that ao regard wbe paid to evidence as qui s but that other talitioay. lets fawns. was to be profaned. He walked, bow. ever, *sir latwahlpmwhatever might be their ulti mate de l i ten es would sot aft& en bear the allerthive d iPe_knsy and honourable perfoos as coopers/ his litteßrs Bata Culonifts of the Weil fedi& OWN with wear of whom his Royal Hithasfs was Ow may years intimate. and with none of whom, could ha believe them capable of the tyrannical cruelties horned to them, would be for one moment have sinciated. He hoped. however, a Bridal Hash ef Parliament would never vote for annihilating the property of loyal Britills f*eas, without rat to their reprefentations, and duly deliberating on the fubjea, more efpecially of loch 'fables% as the Brides Weft India Colonitts, who, ander Its feottion of fevers' faceffive Aas of Parliament for a inks of three hundred years , had been induced and encouraged to lay out all their pro. petty in the improvement of thole colonies, and the extenfion of the African trade ; who now had vett ed in thole colonies property to the extent o one hundred millions ; who returned a trade in produce to this country of eighteen millions annuaßy, and which *outfit in a yearly rum to the revenue of four millions. As one of thole l therefore, who bad fees with his own eyes the fitnatton of the Slave Trade.ia the Weil Indies. and not judging by the prejudices of thofe who had their information from hooray and mifreprefentation. he could neva confine to vote away in a moment the property of thrift plant ers, becaufe Parliament lbould think fit to reform the wade which for centuries it had fassitioned, and dries to ruin chafe whom it had fo long encouraged. Earl STANHOPE obferved, drat the objet gf the friends of the Bill west* to ruin thole men, but to allow them every joft compenfation ; but die prayer of the petition was not for compcnfation, but for the trade to continue. The LORD CHANCELLOR (poke io fupport of the Amendment, and thought it quite impoSble for the Houfe to refute its ear to the Petition of Sri tith fobjeas, upon a matter where the utter ruin of their property was at flake. He did not manta having ever given a vote on this (objet. Evidence, it was fad, was in abundance on the i r I dadfhi p s' table. He had never looked into this evidence, and from its volumit.ous fiaq and external appearance. he did not think the remaining period of the Set: floe would allow him time for the perufal. The many important interefis and rights, both public and rivate, involved in this fubjea, demanded of the wifdom of the Node to proceed with the moll ma uve deliberation; public and private juftice, as well as national policy, required it. The ruin which thp (widen adoption of a isseafure like this would not fail to filed own the condition and property of fo many indleidurds, called for the carat of humanity and jollies towards them, as well as towards any other dais of the perfons within the purview of this Bill. It ght be a veryfing thing for a Chancellor, hated on the woolfack , a Right Reverend Prelate, feated there in virtue of a wealthy diocefe, or a Noble Earl with a great eflate. to fit and indulge their benevo lence end humanity, in voting for a Bill of this kind, for the relief of one defcription of perfons ; but all he would a& of Right Rev. and Noble Lords was, to earcife their benevolence and humanity upon uni vocal, not partial principles; and not to indulge their zeal for promoting the comforts of one let of men at the expense and total ruin of other claffes, equally entitled to confideration and junice. The quellion being now put, Lord Hawkefbury's amendment was carried without a divifion.—Ad lourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Shortly after the Hnuk bad met, a Metiege was received from the lords, In confcquence u' which the Speaker, accompanied by leveret of the Members,vrait tbc Hook of Peers On their Teem. the Speaker Rated, that they had beard the Royal Affait given by Commitinn to the Enatitia and IriOt Cora Trade Refute - lion 5111, and (moat private Bills. Mr. Owen, from the Raft India Hook, pocketed an Account al the EXPeOrti and Charges on the Sale of Felt India Goods. purfeent to a former Order of the Hook. Ordered to be prioutil mid to tie on the table_ The kith Curtoses and Recife Bill was read a chisel time. and ordered to be lent to the Lords. Mr. Joins. it, from the Otiee at the Chief Seerettry of State in Ireland. pretested a Statement of the particulars of the April cattle of the Compenbeirm Money in Ireland.—Onkred to Sc on the table. The Sill for autkorifing the porebafing of Land, and extending the Arfenal at °wham, was read a firtt, and ordered to be road a teemed taw to-morrow. Mr. CORRY mated for the Accountant General of Ireland's Metro& of the liiib Revenue, of the week ending January i .1800 ...Ordered. He albs moved for a Turkey of other IriO Paper'. which motions wen areal to. The committal of Lady Rawest's)", Annuity Bill was poßpoe• ed UR to-morrow. LONDON CLINGY ■ILL. - - - glr J. COX HIPPS/WIT brought up the report of the Landon Clergy 1113 L-06 the gresaito that it be read. Mr. Ahlowara COMBS espreeed a with that it &old be poll ywog fee lime dux, tYC the lotendts of many Know concerned data be Isom accurately boefttgated. He therefore mod that M be read die day dame months. sh I.AICDahSON tweeted the amendment, and fa d, the palms alihkil Ist brim ft , ••• ci ths ihmiess illdf, but odf sese c lb is is a vi ii it • t g I 11 , 1 1 I 1 . I i t ! I , i 1 \i I • 1 ; 1 I, I i 1 I 1 / . I ,1 1 i I .11: A. i i'' T w;m L'bc~