Star. — London, England, 1811-04-09 00:00:00

- ~,f_ and the Chief Justice .et Canada oply £llOO, %shy was the Chief Justice of Sierra Leone to have £1500? His (Mr. Whitbread's) wish was, that the gram should be postponed till larger means of inquiry were a tThrded to the House—(W/ear.) He wished that that such inquiry should be entered into, if it were only for the single advantage of Africa. If jobs wtre prevented in the settlement, great good might follow at some future period. We owed a large reparation to Africa. If the inquiry into the present circum stances of the case preceded the grant, and preyed its necessity, the Hense would, in his opinion, not be narrow is the bounty which they were disposed to ex pend on the wants of a colony which might yet be highly important to this country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was glad to find at least from the conclusion of the Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Whitbread's) speech, that h e was not hostile to the grant of money for the sup port of the colony; It was to be desired that full en- Nuiry should be had upon the subject, and then Gen tlemen would probably be of opinion that £14,000 was not a very extravagant estimate for the service of the colony. It was to be remembered, that before any vote of the House could reach the colony, about half a year would have elapsed, and it would be neces .. Constitution of this colony enottglito occupy him se riously for some months. The plan was then to have undergone a revision by the Lord Chancellor, and it was not possible that More expedition could have been rightly used. When the estimates of the colony were filly before the House, it "vi ould be seen that they were moderate and reasonable. The colony, in even the most vulgar view of commercial advantage, was important ; even overlooking all the great topics connected with the subject, the object of having a ,settlement in the heart' of Africa, as the nucleus of civilization. Was it to be said, that when we could make no more use of Africa as the tbeatre of a bar barous trade, we were to treat that immense and un happy country with scorn and contempt ? Mr. Ste phen, after some eloquent remarks on the conduct which ought to be pursued to wipe off the stain of the Slave Trade, concluded by expressing his wish for full enquiry. Mr. WHITBREAD was glad to find that the Honourable Gentleman ( Mr. Stephen) had retained nothing of the little irritations that so often arose in debate ; he was glad to accept his compliments, and begged leave to say that he had no idea of tluowing out any reflection on the original patrons of the set tlement. sary therefore to provide by the vote for that half year. It would he better at once to vote the whole sum, as any deduction conkd be made afterwardi, and the proper expences at the same time provided for. The dismissed officers must have their salaries until their return home. It was well that the question should be examined, and set to rest at once and filially. The question had very serious and weighty considerations belonging to it. 'rhe.tuture civilization of Africa, the possession of an immense line of coast, the pro tection of a great number of persons received in the colony under peculiar distress and misfortune, were a mong the objects connected with the colony. There were others too—He must allude to the case of the Maroons, rho, when in Nova Scotia, .cost the State upwards of 810,000 yearly. This was the computa tion of Mr. King, the Under Secretary of State. Those clearges were certainly to be included in the expense of the colony. There was on them, an ac tual saving to Government. It was extremely dif ficult to find persons qualified for the offices which Mr. Thorpe was to fill. There could scarcely be found any person to go to the settlement. It was to be re membered by those who objected to the amount of the salary, that, besides the usnal duties of a Colonial Justiciary, there were those of a Prize Court—and it was better that no such Court should exist in a colony, than that it should be inadequately administered, as bad prizes might be taken to . that colony for the ‘tion. Mr. DENT expressed himself in tones of conside rable displeasure at the Honourable Member's (Mr. Stephen's) 'imputing motives to him which he did not feel—Mr. STEPHEN explained. Mr. FULLER could see no better reason than that given by a Member in the course of the debate, for re fusing the grant. The House had been told, that ont of fifteen hundred men sent to the colony, but twelve were alive in the course of three years. He was glad that an Honourable Member (his friend there) brought on the question. As to the Slave Trade, he would only say, that whoever carried a measure that made his (Mr. Fuller's) estate in the West Indies a third worse thin it was, ought to have first paid him for it. •Mr. WILBERFORCE must remind the House,' that the mortality spoken of occurred befnre the estab: lishment of the Sierra Leone colony. Some persons, with the best intentions, had collected the blacks who were wandering about the str?ets and lanes of London, and sent them.to Africa. There ‘N as a want of pro per precaution in some .if the arrangements, and a great mortality followed : but it was absurd to speak of it to the extent that 1.a.1 been alledged. Many of the blacks had probably left the settlement, and gone l to other parts of the country. It was to be remember-I ed, that colonies were hard to be founded ; our Ame rican colonies had laboured under extreme difficulties : but if there had been no other use in the colony of Sierra Leone, it at least gave the country a more ac curate idea of what the slave trade was. It shewed • • 'The Itesohttion eras then ptit and agreed to. The sum of £11,600 was also granted to make g , od the sums issued by orders of the House House then resumed, the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow, and the Committee to sit again o:i Wed' ne sd y. COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS. The House, ,, n the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means, to which the estimate of the surplus of the Consolidated Fund, and of the proceeds of old Naval Stores, were referred. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose, for the purpose of submitting two votes to I the Committee, which he trusted w ,, tild not only meet with their concurrence, but give satisfaction to every Gentleman present. The first vote he had to submit was, that a sum not exceeding X. 12,364 he I voted as the amount of the proceeds of the sale of old naval stores, applicable to the ways and me:ins of the i year. This sum was to be voted in this form in pur suance of an Act of last Session, which directed that the proceeds of such stores should be made the subject of separate estimate, and the sum taken last year had been consequently inserted in the distribution act. The next vote that he should have to submit to the ' Committee, was the sum of £996,`227. 18s. 4-id. as -elf was excessive, he' thought it safe to take the average of the two preceding years, and upon this average he felt himself justified in taking the surplus for last year at a sum not exceeding X 1,400,000. But he had to remark that this surplus was exclusive of /3970,000, taken as the produce of the new regulation of the stamp-duties, which had been permanently appro priated from the Consolidated Fund to defray the in terest and charges of the loan of last year. After de ducting that sum so appropriated from the actual sur plus in the preceding year, he had not thought .he would be justified in taking his estimate of the pro bable amount of the surplus for the last year higher than 84,400,000, There remained no doubt a balance of 290, or £300,000 above that estimate, which he hoped to have realised, but which he could not Cal culate upon with confidence. He had now, however, the satisfaction to inform the Committee, that the produce of the Consolidated Fund had exceeded his estimate to the amount of 81,300,000, and up wards. There bad been already voted a suns of £356,787, as the surplus of the fund over the estimate on the sth of January, 1811, which, with the sum be had proposed to vote in this instance, would make the actual surplus above his estimate, as he stated, above X 1,350,000. He thought it would be a satis faction to the Committee, that he should stare in a few words, this agreeable difference between the estimate and the actual produce of the fund. He felt the more pleasure in making this statement, becasse Gentlemen were disposed, under the circumstances in which the commerce of the country was placed, to take more gloomy views of the financial means and resources of the country than were justified by the fact. He trus 4ed, too, that this short statement would remove any unfavourable impression upon the public mind which may have been made by such representations, and raise the hopes and just confidence of the public. He was persuaded, that, whatever effect might have been psoduced by the temporary guide sustained by public credit—a shock, which must necessarily have had some influence upon the revenue of the country ; this gratifying fact would prove, that such were the solidity and stability of the sources of our re. , • ,• n • on tile question tieing Ott% Mr. BANKES, though he thAlklit is highly; s:itis faettiry to fiild that the Ctmsol!dated Fund had been produced, - bionil•all ordinary tim?r, yet li , o,ked u t .i•a it as pernliArly gratifying that it proved so pri T e r o t ls un.':•r the dis;istrons circumstances in which the crony y had been placed last y'ar. T•. was a strong prot.f of the stability of our r-s.•atrces, th.:t the finances ,if the country had pros' ered under vie,: cirturnstai:ces, in plate of suffering any defalcation. For hims:il4 he had al-:.ay s considered the• resources 4•f the country as large and abundant, but unless they should b e old naged with economy, they would not be equal to the expenditure. He was sure the statetnent of his Riziltt Hon. niend would prove satisfactory to the couivry ; but he wished to know whether his Right Hon. Friend would have any objection to state the produce of the corresponding quarters in this and the last year? He wished also to know, whether the amotrntA)f fines paid in on account of the Militia was inclodeil in the negreeate of the Consolidated Fund ? These flues, he understood, amounted to two or ante much more than he had at firt supposed. A part of th,!se fines were paidinto the Bank, and another part to the Exchequer. His first question his Right Hon. ' Friend would not have any difficulty to answer; but the other, if he was not prepared to answer it, he _I/11-4;', vs." ...- _ ......713,4•Q I • ay... .. ___ the surplus of the Consolidated Fund remaining in should ..cave for the present. the Exchequer on the .sth of April, 1811. But in The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. stating to the Committee this amount of the surplus replied, that he could have no objection to state to the of the Consolidated Fund over its estimated produce, Committee the particulars (fthe corresponding guar hefelt it necessary to recal to the rec.)llection of Gee.= ters. He had to observe, however ? that the receipts in tlemen, the principles and grounds upon which he the preceding year had exceeded any thing ever be. conceived himself justified last Session,' in taking the a fore known. The produce of last year did not, there. surplus of thet fund so high as he then had done. On fore, exceed that of the preceding year, but !rad fallen that occasion he had taken the amount of that sue- a little back of it. The produce of the quarter ern: ng plus at a higher sum than ever was known ; and cer. the sth of, July, 1809, was £10,613,000: that of the t.tinly the produce of the fund had greatly exceeded in quarter ending the sth of July 1810, Je 1 1,022,'%''0 ; of the preceding year, upon which his estitnate had been the quarter ending the sth of Oct. 1809, A - 9,a4.1 , Ay.) $ founded, any thing that had been produced hi any 1 that of the quarter ending the sth of 0 -tuber, LSIO, former year. The surplus actually produced in that 810,615,000 ; that of the quarter ending the sth of year ameunted to seven millions and odd hundreds. January, 1809, 811,813,042; that of the quaver end. • But that was the produce of an excessive year, and ing the sth of Jam] try, 1910, £10,891,4e0 ; "hat had arisen from circumstances which were not to be of the quarter er,ling tie sth of April,. 1809, expected to recur. These circumstances might have R 967,200; that cf 'he queiter erding the sth of April, contributed, as they no doubt had, to swell the amount 1810, £872,700. With respect to the militia floes he of the surplus in that year; but as they could not rea- was not prepared to give a satisi.x. , ry an vver. H. sonably be calculated upon in any succeeding year, was persuaded that they could out 'amount te se leree they could not be taken into consideration in framing a sum as his Honourable Friend had state,'. H e h a d an estimate for the present year. One of these cir- no' doubt, hOwever, that any sums paid in on that ac. cumstances was the receipt of £600,000 arrears count to the Exchequer, went to the consolidated fund.' of the taxes of former years. Another was, that that Such sums, on the contrary, as were paid into the year was a year of excessive import, which arose prin- Bank, were, in his opinion, appropriated to the ser cipally from the circumstance of the import of the vices of the militia itself. preceding year having been considerably smaller. In Mr. HENRY THORNTON allowed that the tin-ming t his estim rte for last year, however, which . . statement of the Right Hun. Gentleman was satis. easier condemnac_____ Mr. DENT had heard reports extremely prejudi• vial to the conduct of the colony. It was publicly said, that the Maroons were treated like slaves - that the native population was decidedly hostile—and there was every expectation that, at no distant period, they would rise and make an attempt to extirpate the whole establishment. There was reason to fear• that not a white would be left alive in the colony; and yet up wards of £20,000 had been expended on this unpro ductive speculation, and the House was now called on for fifteen or twenty thousand more. Sir JOHN NEWPORT could not see any reason why the Chief Justice of Sierra Leone should have £1,500 a year, when Newfoundland had a Chief Jus tice at £7OO, and a Judge of Admiralty at £5OO, both only amounting to £1,200. The Chief Justice of Prince Edward's Island had only £5OO, thouglrhe was first in Council. It was said that the salary must continue where the officer was abroad; but Mr. Thorpe VW' now at home, and he ought to . be kept there. Mr. STEPHEN VMS glad to hear a promise at last, that the whole subject would be brought betore the House. He, however, thought it improper, that the Hon. Member (Mr. Dent), who commenced the inquiry on this night, should not have contented him self with making his motion or his promise, without wandering into the charges which were so lightly thrown out against the Government and the Colony. There were many profligate and flagitious rumours, but that which the Hon. Member (Dent) brought lb: ward last was preposterous and burlesque. What, was it t be supposed, that the militia of the colony, the men who carried arms for .the defence.of the set tlement, were actually treated as slaves ! This idea was extravagantly absurd. As to the appointments, he believed it was not possible to fix on an instance of any appointment, except Mr Thorpe's, which had taken place since the beginning of the settlement, without the particular recommendation of the inde pendent, the pure-minded noble patrons of the otigi nal undertaking. He was anxious to say thus much to an Hon. Member (Mr. Whitbread), who had greatly distinguished himself in the cause of huma us the debasement and the misery brought on by 'that trade ; it showed us hundreds of miles desolated by the wars of the slave-trade. The colony had suffered the greatest inconveniencies from the hostility of the slave-dealers, and the slave-trade was the bitterest elle- . my of the establishment at Sierra Leone. A late Ho nourable Friend of his (we presume Mr. Pitt) had these ideas strongly in his mind. He was fully bent on assisting Africa, and had intended to apply to Par liament for a considerable sum of money for the ex- , press purpose. There were now 800 persons educating in the colony, this alone made it of great importance. Honourable Members, and particularly the Member for Sussex (Mr. Fuller) might remember that when it was the custom to give a yearly grant of £12,000 for the support of our African trade, there was no murmuring ; but now, when it was to remunerate that most ill-used country, their voices were all raised against the grant. Sir JOHN COX HIPPISLEY stated, that in the spring of the year 1788, he had been at Sierra Leone, where he :iad touched in an East India ship, and found the insalubrity of the climate such, that of 1700 per. sons who had been sent there in the preceding year, i'only one remained, all the rest having died there, with Jhe exception of about twelve, who took refuge in an island in the river ; and one-fourth of the crew of the vessel perished there during a stay of two months. Mr. WILBERFORCE, in explanation, stated, that the original Colonists had not been sent out by the Company, and that they consisted of lascars as well as of Anterican blacks. Mr. H.THORNTON wished the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dent) to put off the motion which he had kaki mated his intention to make, till after the holidays ; because arrivals might in the mean time be expected. which would furnish the House with fresh informa tion upon the subject. He agreed that there might have been some excess of expenditure, and that it was necessary to pay every possible attention to col-, nemy ; but he was disposed to give his support to this. vote, because he would not consent to create any ground of doubt as to the continuance of this colony. W; he would factory. But the question, in his mind, was, whether, with the increase of our revenue, there was not a cor respondent increase of expenditure? He was not dis posed to take a desponding view of the financial re sources of the country, nor did he mean by any (ib servation he should make, to take away from that natural exultation which the statement of his Right Hon. Friend was calculated to make i but he could • not avoid reminding the Committee, that they ought not to be induced by such a proof of a prosperous re venue, to relax in their vigilance respecting the public expenditure. He had observed, in voting grants for various public objects, on a former day, that in al most every one of the items there was some increase on the ground of the rise of the times. It was for the House to determine how far this circontstance was calculated to take from the irepresc'on made by the favourable statement of the Right Hon. Gen tleman. Besides, many of the duties were ad va;orem rates, and might thereforelave the effect of augment ing the produce of the Consolidated Fund in conse quence of the recent additions made to the duties and the late increase of imports. But at all events he was of opinion, that economy alone could give stability to our reseurces. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repIied, that in the statement he had made, be had explained to the Committee the amount of the surplus of the Consolidated Fund, independent of the charges defrayed out of it last year. He had particularly calied the attention of the Committee to the excess of the actual produce over the estimated surplus, and that in a year, too, when no new taxes had b( en imposed to add to its productiveness. This sheaved clearly, that the revenue was in a state of growing prosperity ; unless it could be said of him, that in his estimate last year he had taken a desponding view of the case. .Last.year, however, he had been charged with having taken (no' sanguine a calculation of the probable proonce of the Fund, particularly with respect to the Stamp Duties., He could, however, by reference to the actual receipts, skew that he had net been mis:aken. In the year ewhng the sth of April, ISIO, the Stamp DOes.prO. - :ed • pity, aid whose speech on the Slave Trade had made an indelible impression on his breast. He had heard thit speech before he sat in that House, and when he was only a listener in the gallery. Perhaps that Hon. Member would not peculiarly like, compliments from him, but he must acknowledge the influence which that speech had on him. As to the other Hon. Mem ber (Mr. Dent) the question could not come with any peculiar gratification to him,. Africa mightin his (Mr. Dent's) opinion have had some value, when it was the country of the Slave Tr ade; but now, when L' ith respect to the nature of the climate, confess that it had not proved as salubrious as they had been at first inclined to suppose, but it WAS not so unhealthy as represented by the Honourable Baronet. It was a fact that the Maroons and Nova Scotia black, increased their numbers there. With respect to the appointment of the Chief Justice, that was a Government question. When the abolition took p!ace, it was unquestionably desirable, that there should be on the cop - somewhere, a tribunal for the condemnation of vissels violating the abolition law. .y venue, that it was not a Tittle than could retard its progress. To form an adequate idea of the actual state of the -case, the Committee mint refer to the proposition made by him in last Session—a propo sition which had been received with doubt, and watched with jealousy by the House when he brought it forward ; he meant the proposition for ac ting upon the principle of providing for the loan with out resorting to new taxes. in consequence of this proposition, the sum of .e 970,000 had been taken from _ Fund, - the duo. , the suns of ,E5,188,41G ; this year thijr.peo. duced £5,302,000, being upwards of eloo,ooo more than they had produced in a year when his estimate had been looked upon as excessive. The obstrvation of his Hon. Friend respecting ad valorem duties ap. plied to this branch of the taxes snore than to. any other, because they were more ad valorem rates in the stamp duties, than in any other branch of the public revenue. In the Excise. the most important part of the public revenue, which produced £16,880,000, be sides the Excise war-taxes, there were no ad ow- Africa could no longer supply that delectable article He had himself doubts, whether professional men ' the surplus of the Consolidated Fund, to meet _ • ef human flesh, it was not good for any purpose could be induced to go out to that station ; but if any charges of the loan of the year. They had since gone ' I loam rates whatever. In the Customs, too, ano whatever. It ought to be known, that there was a such person should go out, he thought £l5OO a year through the year: all the expences chargeable upon i titer great branch of the public revenue, there Prize Court in Sierra Leone, to adjudicate the claims not ton large an income. On that ground he should the Fund had been defrayed ; and, over and above the I were no ad valorem' Duties, except in tlie War en neutrals and others.. The hurry of the appoint- vote for the motion, though, if the person to fill' the £4,400,000 estimated surplus, a sum of £1,350,000 Taxes on Customs—and there only on some e rnent which had been complained of, arose from this ; duties of the office were not to be a legal person, he had been produced by the Consolidated Fund, appli- . Ports, nene of which made any part of the Con on the abolition of the Slave Trade in 1807, it was should not be inclined to agree to it. cable to the service of the present year. This was • solidated Fund. The observation of his Honour ' able Friend, therefore, did not apply to either of made a law, that ships carrying slaves should be cap- ' Mr. ABERCROMBIE vindicated - himself from not a singular case. The produce of that Fund was tuned, and the slaves set at liberty. It was.dange- the idea of having been ever friendly to the Slave in a state of progressive improvement, as would . e . ! these two great sources of the public revenue. But rous to bring those vessels to a West Indian port, and Trade. He wished to know of the Hon. Secretary pear from a reference to its amount in the last three there was also another branch of the public revenue, the let the liberated slaves loose among bondsmen ;it of the Tr easur y , how man y of the Chief Justices in years. In the year ending the sth of April, 1809, increase of which must indicate a real growth in was therefore thought expedient to provide a port on our Colonies were resident at their appointments ? the whole produce of.the Consolidated' Fund was 1 the prosperity of the Country ;he meant the revenue the African coast, where they might be landed at Mr. WHARTON believed all of them. It was W 36, 44 3 ,77 0; in the year ending the s th of April,' of the Post Office. That revenue lest year exceeded once, and without danger. But for the erection of a not the duty of 'the Treasury, however, to give infor- 1810, X 41,441,774 ; in the year ending the sth of , the receipts of the preceding year by 90 or £lOO,OOO. April, 1811, 411,e-11,700 ; being, in the last year, Court competent to, decide the prize questions in I motion on thil head. This year it exceeded last year by £160,000. Stich Africa, a commission most issue front the Admiralty Mr. ABERCROMBIE thought when a Gentle- an amount of produce only £106,000 short of the pro- a progressive increase ia a revenue, in the whole at home. That commission must be directed to some ltleman came forward to ask money fir a grant of this duce of the preceding year, the most productive of any amounting to a million only, as the revenue of the individuale it could not he general, and some person ' kind, there could be no impropriety in asking—in re'. I ever before known. This must be a source of satin- Post-office, Was surely' a proof of the increase of bu. must have been selected for the situation before this I quiring from him information connected with the faction t 6 the House,.as well as the best procf that siness, or luxury, and consequently of the stowing must be desired to thew, that we had not yet arrived step could have been taken. But a delay arose in Grant. produce an(' prospeetty, of the country. The observa tion of his Honourable Friend therefore, not applyin_ j Itereing.the judicial charter, and Mr. Thorpe's depar- Mr. PEELE stated, that the Chief fustices were at that period, when any circumstances in the state of our resources should call for despondency.—(Hear.) tut• et as retarded by that delay. But it was to be re- all resident 'without exception. to the great sources of reventie, was of no .value e membered, that a constitution was actually to be Mr. MARTIN inquired how long this had been He should conclude with moving, as the amount of . this view* the question, though every thing . that f firmed for the colony, and though the formation the case as to the Chief Justice of Newfoundland ? the surplus of the Consolidated Fund remaiping in from hineewas intitled to the greatest attention. In . in the property-tax there were, but that tarmid sr cf constitutions had been of late years a very Mr.PEELE aeswered that all were resident but the Eiohequer on the sth April, 1811, the sum of the assessed. tax" too there were no vel ` rte2 itlt ' ei: easy performance, he (Mr. Stephen) bad found the the ode of Dominica. . 499057. 1$& 40. • , i . . . .. i _ • • - . • . I