Star. — London, England, 1807-04-10 00:00:00

I -4 1 • .'s j] • • 1* .44;• I V '• ! - 1 i r ma . TP A • • 11 1:1 , _ . • 1 - -... ' FRIDAY, APRIL 10, 1807. NUMBER 56801 PRIC SIX-PINCS PARLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, THURSDAY, APRIL 9. The Lord Chancellor Eldon, Lords Ayksford and Walfinghalw, fat in their robes as his Majtfty's Cornmilßoners and declared Malt to the Royal Family Annuity and the frill% the Royal P al er Duty Bill. The Earl of Lonfdale was introduced with the secuftomed for malities Hi s fupporters were Earls Camden and Weitmorland. The Duke of Buccleugh, Lord Montague, and a few other Peers were (worn, and took their feats. The Treafurer of the Navy's Bill. the lei& Revenue Regulation, and a few other Bills, were brought up from the Commons. and read a Brit time. Thole on the table ware forwarded—Adjourn ed till to.morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair at half part three. The SPEAKER having been required, by a Menage, to attend at the Bar of the Houfe of Lords, to hear his Majefty's attend (ion read, read, for declaring the Royal Affent to certain Bills, attend ed forthwith, and informed the Hours, that the Royal Affect had been declared, by Commiffion, to the Bill for Amending a Mif take in a Bill of the latt Seffion, for granting Annuities for Life to certain branches of the Royal Family, and alfo to Cenral private Bills. Anothrr Meffage from the Lords announced that their Lord fhips had agreed to the Eaft India Goods W.u-choufing Bill, and the Light and Heat Company's Bill. Sir WILLIAM CURTIS prefented a Petition from the Efta billed Clergy of London, incorporated under the denomination of Sion College, againft the Catholic Milit.try Commiffion Bill, now pending.—Ordered to lie on the ''able. Read a fecond time, the Infolvent Traders Freehold Eftate Mitts Bill. Committed for Friday. Read the fecond time, the kith Infirmary Bill, and the kith Conuniffioner of Affidavits' Bill. Committed for to-morrow . Lord FOLKSTONE prefented a Petition frown William Drake, a prifoner in Newgate, committed thither by Order of the Houfe, for grofs and wilful prevarication, on his examination relative to the late Weftminftcr Eledtion, praying to be difcharged from con.; figment. The Petition having been read, The SPEAKER raid it was his duty to call the attention of the Hoofs to the fubltance of this Petition. It had been hitherto eul wary, when perfons committed under fuch circumttancrs as thole in which the Petitioner Rood, foliated from that Houfe an titmice of its benevolence in their favour, by ordering their libe ration, that they lhould at !call confers the crime for which they Rood committed. thereby acknowledging the juftice of the fen melee, and expreffing their contrition. But the Petition jolt now read contained no fuch acknowledgement. The Petition was allowcal to remain on the table, without any father obfervation CHANCE OE ADMINISTRATION. Mr. BRAND now rote, for the purpofe of ing. bg forward his promifed refolutinns tefpeai - og the ierfons who advifed his Majefty to difmifs hi, late itlinitlers. He rmfe, he laid, to call the attention of the Houle to a matter of great national nromert, in sfmuch as it was one of high conflittrional irnpos t. once ; and under the duty which he this night pro poled to himfelf, it WAS matter of painful feeling to him, that loch a fubjetch h d not fallen into hands more adequate to the occalion. On the topic which induced him to trefpafs this night upon the attention of the Houle, he had hoped to be able to rowers thole feelings of anxiety and alarm, which he only participated in common with the people of England; but if he thould not have been able wholly to divett himfelt of thole fenfations, in (peaking his humble fentiments upon fuch a topic, he trotted the Houle would have the goodnefs to extend to him that in dulgence whiCh they were feldom wont to refufe on fimilar occafions, efpecially as he role to vindicate the caufe of the Conititution. Immediately previous to the late adjournment,ghe Houle had heard from a Noble Lurd. one of its Members, and a Member alto cf his Majefty's late Cabinet, a full and candid ex planation of the caufes which immediately led to the late change of Adminiftration. By that explanation it appeared, that a Cabinet, compofed of men of the firll talents, and of the higheft charatler for integrity, patriotifm, and independence, their country could boatt, and who fo lately and fa defervedly polliffed the confidence of their Sovereign, of that Haufe, and of the Empire, had been displaced from their fano. tions ; and that his Majefty had been advifed to dif mifs them from his Councils, and to call his prefent Minifters to their places. The caufe of that dilmilfal had already been fully explained to the Houle, and to the country ; and it appeared to be no other than their declining the duty which they owed to their Sovereign, to their country, and ao their confciences, upon the oaths they had taken as Privy Councillors, that of giving to the Sovereign a full and fair advice, upon all matters touching the honour of his Crown, the fecurity of his empire, and the welfare of all his fubjeas ; and becaofe they refpeafulty declined to be bound by a pofitive pledge, which lhould rettrain them from giving certain entitle!, which, under the prcrfure of imperirus neceflity, might become their indifpenfable duly. He had mentioned his in tention of fubmitting to the Houle tome Refolutions upon this fubjea, expretlive of fuch fentiblents aS would mark the kith lenfe entertained by Parliarrent of a circumflarce fo extraordinary ; and he had thought, that the Hook could not too fpeedily take the fubjea into its talons confederation, and declare its unequivocal opinion thereon. From that time to this, fo many profs and unfounded caltimnies had been indultrioully circulated againft his Majeftl's late Minillers, that he was molt anxious to b , ing.for. oiled the propofition he had mentioned. ,He was glad, however, that the adjournment had taken place, and thereby prevented his bringing for ward this dif cotton former, becaufe he had thereby polft.irci an• opportunity of deliberately examining the ilatemene made by the Noble Lord, in all its bearings ;—he, • confequently, found it neceffary to make tome changes M the Refolutions he firtt intended to prc'pnfe, and to confine them to more fpecific heads, Vhen he adverted to the reftriaions which had been enjoined, and the pledges which had been demanded of his Majefly's late Minillers, as the indifpenfable condi . lions of their continuance in office, he mull declare that fuch a propofal mutt have been advifed by men. ah, fe couofels were inimical to the interells, and fatal to the jolt prerogatives of the Crown ; men who, if they contented to accept the office of the King's ad vifets upon fuch conditions, mutt thereby incur the guilt of violating their oaths, and of fubverting the principles of the Coult4ion. He therefore thought it now the duty (tithe Houfe to examine moft minutely this extraordinary doctrine, and to adopt fuch refolu tions as &Auld teem mofl likely to avert the alarming coafequences which mutt flow from its adoption.— When the Miaifters of the Crown reftrain themfelves by a written pledge to withhold from his Majefty, on any ground or condition, fuch advice as they conceive neceffary to the fecurity of his empire, the honour of his Crown, and the welfare of his fubjeds, they not only abandon, their own duty, but at in a manner equally unmindful of the rightful prerogatives of the Crown, and of the privileges of Parliament, and contrary to the dodtrines laid down upon that rub jet by the firft conflitutional authorities. Such an attempt was equally contrary to the law of the coun try, and fubverfive of the principles of the Conftitu tion.. His Majefly might refift counfels, or change his advifers ; but he could not limit the tight of his Minifters to give their advice. If thofe Minifters, whole duty it was to advife the Crown—who were refponfible to the country for the advice they Ihould give—and without which advice the Crown, in the language and fpirit of the Conftitution, was never fupprifed to ad, relinquiflted the right and the duty to advife their Sovereign, where, he would alk, was refponfibility to attach ? or what confidence could that Houfe or the country feel in an Adminiftration compofed of Inch men ? or what refponfibility could the country expert from men,capable of Inch a con cha, and who only held out fallacious fecurities to a deluded people ? To explain to the Houfe the known right and duty of a Privy Councillor in advifing his Sovereign, a right and a duty recognifed and Gip. I ported by every principle of the Conititution, he felt quite unneceffary : hot if any doubt whatever could remain on the lubieEt, the very words of the old oath I of a Privy Councillor, as laid dram by Lord Coke, were decilive upon the point. By that oath, he . was bound, truly to coiinfel the King in all matters treated in eit Council, or by him as the King's Coun cillor ; and in all things that may be for the King's honofir and behoof, and to the good of his realms and fubjeds, without partiality or exceptions; nor leaving, nor efcbewing, ti to do, for affection, love, meed, doubt, or di cad of any perfon or perfons ; nor for gift, meed, or promife, to promote, favour, or kinder any matter treated or done in council ; and, in general, to do all a good councillor ought to do, unto his Sovereign Lord." Another feel; at of the Privy Councillor'. oath folemnly bound him to keep , inviolably fecret the King's Councils, and never to. divulge the fame without his Majefty's permiMon, expiefred in writing. But how grofsly was this obli gation violated, in the late fhameful and garbled pobiication of the fecrets of the Cabinet ? Whatever might be his own feelings, and however they coin cided with the general fence of the country, on the conduit and talents of his Majefty's late Minifiers, firuld not now dilate upon thofe meafures which fo eminently and fo honourably diftinguifhed their Ad miniftration ; nor would he detain the Houfe longer at prefent, than by moving his Refolution, which was to this effed o. Malted, That it is fubverfive of the principles of the Con • ftitution, for his Majefty's Minitters to reftrain themfelves by any pledge to withhold at any time from his Majefty any advice which they (hall, in their opinions and confcienees, belii:ve to be condu cive to the remit y of his realms, the honour of his Crown, and the well being of all his fubjeds." Mr. LAMBE rule to fecond the motion of his Ho nourable Friend, from which at no time -could he refute to withhold his fupport ; bin which at the prefent moment he thought a queftion of vital im portance to the Conftitution; and had his fpeech even been lefs clear, eloquent, and fatisfadory, he (Mr. L.) should not have ventured to obtrude at length upon the indulgence of the Houfe : for though the lubjed was of the firft magnitude, yet he thought the fpirit of the queltion lay within a very narrow compafs. The rumours of an intended change of , Adminiftration, and which In much agitated the public mind, be for one molt deeply lamented to find realized ; more efpecially as their difinitial was Paid to be in confequence of their declining to abdic:lte a right, or rather a duty, fo important oas that r f advifing their Sovereign in all public matters to the belt of their judgment and con. fcientes. `He was ferioufly concerned to fee removed from the councils of their Sovereign, the men who were fuch able props to the Conflitution, at a moment when their let vices were fo neceffary: and lie thought that the Houfe would be wanting to its own dignity, if it deferred to exprefs its opinion upon loch a cub ' jeet. He was glad, however, that the period of adjournment gave the Houfe time to refied calmly and deliberately upon the fubjed ; to imprefs them with the neceffity of adopting time Refolution, ex -pre(E.,e ui their ItfitlMciits ; and he therefore trufted the one now propofed by his Hon. Friend, would be carried by a larger majority,and. be adopted in a more docided manner, than any queftion which had ever b.en brought before that Houfe. The Conliittrion of this realm requires that the King, in exerting the fundions of Government, fltould take the advice cf the two great Councils of the nation, the Houfes of .Lords and Commons. But the flow progrefs as well as publicity of their deliberations would, in many in fiances, deftroy that fecrecy, and interfere with that promptitude and difpatch, fo often neceffary to the fuecefs of the meafttres of the Government. It had been adopted as a principle coeval with the Conflito lion, that the right and duty of both Houfes to ad vile the Sovereign, might be deputed to a feta:lion from the Members of both Hoofer, chofen by his Majelly as his Privy Councillors, by whole advice every at of the Government was fuppoled to be guided ; and thus ' as far as was pufGble in A human inhibition, to give to the free Government of Eng land all the advantages of fecrecy and difpatch which belong to an arbitrary monarchy. But what furety did the country poffels, that this duty would be ho nettly performed by thole men who could reftrain themfelves by a pledge to withhold their advice from his Majesty, upon any occafion, however important or inditpenfable to the fecurity of his Majefty's domi nions ? What fecurity had the country againft fuch men giving their Sovereign the worn advice, or how could the people be secure of their liberties, under the Government of men, who, for the fake of pof • felling power, could violate th e i r duty to their Save• reign, break their oaths as Privy Councillors, and rific their refponfibility as Miniaers ? By such men, mifehievous meafures might be advifed, which the wifdom of Parliament could never repair; indeed, neither Parliament or the country could place any reliance on men who could pledge themielves to pith-hold the falutary •advice from their Sovereign, which they were• bound liry 'their oaths arid their duties, in all cafes, to give. Even the moil defpotic Monarch, and the greateli tyrant that ever mount ed the throde of this country (Henry VIII.) ufed to fay, " that. every Privy Councillor, when he came to advife his Sovereign, fhould confign firms. lation and difEmulation to the porters in the. lodge." What laid Lord Coke ? " That truth and the whole truth thould meet the Royal ear." But what fecurity was there for a conllitutional admim llration of public affairs , if fuch a doctrine as that alluded to this night thotild be fanaioned by the fup port of Parliament. to the very Minillers who made it the very foundation of their power? Mr. 1.4 M e concluded by fupporting the resolution. General CRAU FORD Rated his objeetions to the motion. He began by obferving, that it was quite impoffible to dikufs the quehlion before the Houk, without uniting with it its application, namely, the difmiffion of his Majesty's late Minifters. He then adverted to the fobjeet of the bill recently before Parliament concerning the Catholics. He reproba ted the meafute as dangerous to the State and Con- Ititution, by giving to that body of perfnns the right of holding great offices in the army and navy. He equally reprobated all overtures to them in any other way, except in a cafe of the mon indifpenfable need - - city. (ale theft latter worth the Cpplition Benches refoun ded wiib the cry of Hear as indicative of that being the cafe at prefent.) Nothing, continued the lio n aurable Member, but what involved the very falvation of the empire could produce even the agitation of fuch fob jefts. ( Here again was the cry of Hear ! vociferated from the fame quarter.) Therefore he contended, that it was the duty of the late Minitlet s to have made cut a cafe, and have (hewn to the Royal mind the proof of fuch neceffity. Bitt that was far from being the fain. They had, it wasorue, noted that fume meafiires were ne ciliary to allay the ferment of the Catholics,and they proposed to bring forward one to remove the anomaly that existed in the Irifh AEI of 1793. This was all they at fiat prnpnfed, and even this he thought an act rf fuperorogotion, for as the anomaly bad esified fo long, the'praCtical effect; of it had aCtually vanished. It need not be noted by him, it was too wan known to require his announcing it, that no reluctance ever r emitted from the King to do all the good in his power for his fubjeCts, his whale reign had been a proof of it, and in no innance did he evince that principle stronger than in the matter of the Catholic meafure l ate ly ia t :edoced. In fnpport of this affection, the Hon. Member averted to the vat lona details of the natement given by the Noble Lord (Howick) when he related the ciremollances that occurred about the Catholic meafure, unto his difmifral from Office.— The difpatch firft fent to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland fhould have been confined to that fubjeCt only, and it liould have noted only, and exactly, what his Majefly had conceded, meaning the Conti nuation of the A& of 179'3, and its extension to all parts of the British dominions, and r farther. But an expreffion found its way into it, of granting Corn mitlions of all kinds to that body of men, without exception. Surely this was an inaccuracy of the deepen dye. How it could have originated was only to be explained by its authors. Shortly after this difpatch was feot otf, a notice was given by a Noble Vitiount ( li,ovick) of his intention of introducing into the Mutiny Bill certain clanks, empowering Catholics and others to hold commitlions in the army and navy, purfuant to the Itifh AEI of 1793, and the fame is then noted to the King. In this hate things were, whilli the difpatches fent over to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland gave tife to hopes in the minds of the Catholics there, that they titettfelves could scarcely believe pnffible. Yet, notwithtlanding this, they entertain their doubts; a communication to that effea is fent hither, and that with the ordinary bull nefs is tranfmitted to the King in the common way ; no Cabinet Minifter accompanying it to explain the Etas to his Majelly,and confequently nothing to excite his particular attention, although quite a new mea lure : for the fir a was underftood to be no more than removing an anomaly, whilft the fecond was a total uhange of the law of 1793. It was not, therefore, unreafonable that the King should have returned the difpatch without comment or obfervation, - as it was natural to foppole he would referee himfelf on fuch a topic, until he Ihnuld fee thole who had foftered the nicotine. He would appeal to the Houfe, whether the King could ail cohere ice. Minitters should not have adopted a meafure of Inch import, or fent fuch a dif patch, as they did, to Ireland, without first having difcull'ed the matter with the King, that his fenti ments, at lean, should he firlt known. As loon as his Majefty arrives in town, they then tell him of mak ing the claufes which they iniended for the Mutiny I Act, the fubjeet of a feparate Bill. No sooner did the Monarch hear it, than he inftantly expreffed his moft unqualified and determined difapprobation of it. He reminded them, that the meafure, when firft fug gelled to him, was a mere revival of the MI of 1793, whillt that now fubmitted went into a general admit Pion into the far vice, and to the highett command, of Catholics, and all other diffenters ; a concefficn which his Majefty clever did or could give. Where upon the King required that pledge, which went to demand, either their conceffion not to intrude any repetition of fuch a meafure, or resign their Cervices to him; and, as a further fecurity thereof, and as a precaution for the • future, to fanClion that pledge by a written document—thisthey refuted. His Ma jelly was, however, Ready, as he evermore was, to the Royal word; he still agreed to the adoption of the Ad of 1793, but this was not deemed fufficient, and the public has finite Peen the exercife of die Royal authority in their difinitild. He acknowledged that the written document fo required was not apart of the written contlitution of the kingdom, but yet it had pre vailed by prefcription and long ufage. If the Crown had not this power, then the State would have but Lords and Commons; the Cabinet Minitters wouldbe but a branch of the Legiflature, and the Crown would _ diverge into nothing. As to the pledge required, he contended it was perfeelly natural (this excited a general laugh from the oppefrefide ofihe floufe.)—lt arofe out of the unconititutional attack made on the prerogative, and when the Minitters of the Crown were ailting in fuch a way, it behoved the Monarch to make the flipulations he did. They would not concede, and his - hlajetly, without diverging from his couftitn tional rrghts, could do no otherwife than he did.— They forced the King to difmifs them, and he could nor, confittent with his duty, but follow the diaum of the Confiitution, and difmif: them accordingly. He could not avoid noticing their conduft fince their removal, and he thought it highly reprehentible.--. Since that removal they have openly queflioned the exercife of the Royal prerogative, and he lamented this the more-. as he had the honour of knowing many of them perfonally, and could pay every tribute to their private worth ; but his public duty was para mount to all other confiderations, and in the prole cation thereof he mug animadvert on their conduit when he faw it fubverfive of the public good; betides, he fhould not enjoy the gratifica ,ion of that felf-ap probation of difcharging his confcience, which ur !Int was the greateß of any earthly advantage. As he 1 - ,:vs matters at prefent, he warned the Houle againft any thing that was likely to difturb the tranquillity of the empire, or have it tolled in the boifierous whirlwind of democratic f..*y. In negletting to fupport the prerogative on this occafion the Houfe would detiroy the main pillar of the contlitution, which he hoped their enlightened and judicious minds would prevent. Mr. HALL understood the difmiffal of the late Minitters to have been in confequencf of their re-' fufing to fign a written pledge. So far from this being an offence, he was of opinion that they had aeted agreeably to the loundeft principles of the Con. fiitution, in rejetling loch a pr2poial. Had they done fa, there was no difgrace which they would not have merited. He was glad to find this was not the cafe. They had aeted conliitutionallv in refuting to fubmit to the obligation which was propofedjo them. He was happy in the opportunity of paying that tri bute which was due to the zeal, the honetly, and the ability with which they difcharged their duty, while holding a place in Lis Majesty's Councils. Their dif niiffal, he was perfuaded, was a fulrieft of fincere regret to every man who valued the fafety and the profperity of the Empi:e. It was impotlible the country could view with latisfattion the recent change, that it could fee itfelf deprived of the fervices of able and uptight Minitters, and the Government entrufied to the dregs of a difgraced AdminiftTation. How lamentably would be the fate of a country whole in tereits should be coofided to fuch hands ! It was in Ireland where he feared the cffetts of the late unhappy change in has Majefly's Councils would be foonett felt. The people of t a ut country looked, if not with perfeti confidasee, at leapt with uhat might be con tidered as an unitfual degree of faiisfatlion, to the Governrront which had been latterly efiablithed for them. Inaead of rash appeals to martial law, they law tranquillity maintaioed by the prompt and im partial exercife of the law of the land. Slo;uld this wife lyftein be in the leaft departed horn, fhoold thefe fcenes of blood be again repeated, which were once praftifed in that part of the empire, he much feared they would terminate Li the kparation of two countries. •. Mr. VIII I'SHED KEENE contended, that er- Ming circurntlances had borne cut the late Minitlers l in the line they purl - tied. Had they lubmitted Lathe plidge that was intended to be impaled upon them, they would have been culpable in the higlictt degree. Nothing, in his opinion, could have extenuated their offence. It was not merely a circumstance that would greet the prefent generation, but it was that which would entail defpotifin on pofierity. As luck, they ailed as became Englifhmen, as became the true friends of their country, and, (fill more, as became the loyal Servants and Subjeas of their King; and, by fuels conduit, they merited the accordant thanks of the Houfe, the Legiflature, and the People at large of this extenfive empire. Mr. WHARTON objeiled to the motion on two I grounds; firft, as 'to the manner in which it was ex. preffed ; and next on account of the line of argument adopted by the perfon who feconded the motion. From the principles of refponfibility laid down by that Gentleman, he begged leave to diffent. The Lords and Commons were not, according to his reading of the Conflitution, obliged to ferve the King, whether they would or not. The Houk, he would contend, were incompetent to entertain the prefent Motion ; for he could not believe that they would fo far depart from the wife an 4 cautious prin. ciples by which they were generally guided, as to enter upon that molt look and dcfultory of lubjefts, the dilcullion of an abliradt queßion. There never was a cafe before the Houle of greater novelty than the prefent. Minitters, it appeared, fupported a meafure which was not only in dire& oppofition to the,fentiments of his Majetiy, but in oppofition alfo to the opinion of a van majority of the country.— He deprecated the dircufflon of abfiraft propofitior.s. The molt falotary provifiona iu our legiflattve code could fcatcely Rand fuch a telt. Though the prin t , ciple might be incontrovertible, yet its application might be produeive of much iuconvenience, awl no little danger. : Mr. LA MEE explained. Mr. FAW KES obferved, that the importance of the queftion was a fufficient apology for his obtruding himfelf on the attention of the Iloufe. There was Do tine who lamented more Gncercly than he did the mif. conceptiou which had latch/ atifen, between an Au.