Star. — London, England, 1809-01-26 00:00:00

coe occa sion to male in t; ree of the evening, indeeci, to d o justice to the British Troops in every action they • her e en; was only to reflect lustre on the country; v aged, tee t he present occasion too much could not be said e' : l o: die:h.:line, valour and enthusiasm wh i ch had been -evinced. In c onsidering this question, he wishedto cons sne his view to the distinct points to which it alone se n ss e,i, namely, the actions of the 17th and 21st AlgaSt, and he should cautiously abstain from every topic that did net im mediatel y advert to the brilliant teen ination of these two actions. His Lordship hay. ente red into a general view of the dis p osition of 1 4' sasel y, and of the enc_ny, situated in strong posi t:oBc, w i t h abundance of stores and provisions, in the possession of the whole country, &c. &c. narye as L. British troops laboured under all the disads ti Intre s s of an invading foe — He proceeded to pass ' i 4 tribute of applause upon the valour, skill, and ~,;eilnct of Sir Arthur Wellesley, than whom no in was more calculated for a vigorous discharge se s duty, or one who could infuse more ardour enthusiasm into the the troops he commanded. 1, -included by moving, " That the Thanks of this -j- e s be given to the Right Honourable Lieutenant Gnsel l Sir Arthur Wellesley, Knight of the Most N o ble Order of the Bath, for the distinguished va lour, ability, and conduct, displayed by him on the 17th and 'llst August, in Portugal, on the signal vie. orr e n te neel by the British army under his command nine:le:a, m ost honourable and glorious to the Bri t:nation." ADDINGTON urged his friendship for Wellesley as an excuse for pressing forward to cse xii the motion. He ran no risk of weakening t s s eeiund upon which this motion stood, for if sub ' e nied to the whole nation, it weul be carried by accientaien. He would abstain from trespassing cn the inchilgence of the House by following the Noble Lord minutely. Great actions spoke best for them elees ; and the splendid deeds for which the House eras called upon to vote its thanks, far exceeded his powers of descriptien. Sir A. Wellesley was at a time of life when much might still be expected, and the course of service so gloriously begun, and so bril liantly distinguished at Assye, promised a harvest of i laurels which would be reaped at the proper periods _whether he was to be considered as the avenger of our wrongs, or our defender either in Asia or Europe. With the experience which Sir A. Wellesley had ac quired, amidst " bloody noses and cracked brows ;" v:ith the prompt courage and coolness for which he seas distinguished—what might not be expected from these qualhies, when proper occasions offered for cal line them thrth ? He hoped that no extraneous mat ter would be intreducel into this discussion, however much it might be regretted that the expected conse quences had not resulted from this victory. Lord FOLKSTONE was sorry that he must object to the motion. He disclaimed any feeling of hostility or ave.rsion taSir A. Wellesley ; and in op posing the motion only acted up to a principle which the House ought always to keep in view. The thanks cf tie House ought not to be given except when par ticelar circumstances occur' ed—when some uncom reels brilliant exploit had been performed—(hear ! hrm !)—.lad when some good consequences had re sulted from it. From the documents in the hands of the puhlic it appeared that both these requisites were' here viaming. He was willing to allow the merit of Sir As:hut-Wellesley in leading the army, and the zeal and firmness of the troops ; but he could not in this sec the extraordinary sort of merit which called for the Thanks of the House. He admitted that the rews of the victory had been heard with acclama tions—but then it appeared, froni subsequent docu ments, that these acclamations were not deserved.— • Noble Lord had said that the British troops were interior hi number to ti'e French. This was not the case, for it appeared from the Report of the Board of Injuiry, that the number of British troops in the feld WAS from 16 to 17,000, exclusive of the Portu geese troops, while the French had only 13,000. No see s good consequences followed the victory, and thorn the blame had been attributed to Sir H. Bur tad for not advancing, yet it appeared by the Report that he ceuld not be condemned on that ccsount.— The exploit, therefore, was not of the brilliant nature which the Noble Lord stated, and the immediate consequence was an armistice, of which his Majesty had in part repressed his disapprobation. He there• Lure theught there should be no Motion of Thanks at ril ; ea!, if there was, the name of Sir H. Burrard oaget. to be inserted. He fully admitted every thing esald Ise said in favour of the gallantry and cou free of the British troops ; but something more was reisiere t o cell for the Thanks of that Frouse. Free q ee as the Thanks of that House had become they world have been lurch more so, if bestowed forcvery ineaece cf courage in the actions performed by the my. The es:ploit fell short, both in its nature and ;, - as •ninnses, of what might be jastly entitled to the :larks of 0.10. House, and he must therefore oppose to treden. FREEMANTLE cordially concurred in the rnc 4 ;' , l. He gave the Noble Lord behind him credit he said, that lie had no personal hostility to Sir A. Wtliesley ; but he differed from him widely in • crlriop on this subject ; for he believed that this vic '••••/ all the inrreclients which were calculated li.)uour to the country, and to call for the unani ams th•lnxs of th- House. He would not speak of z:,e ; but as to this victory, and the course that it, there never was any thing more splendid and • :Lad the House would be wanting in the feel trzs that ought to distinguish the British Parliament, '' lll ('ss they marked their sense of gratitude by the t,• . arm-st th an k s . H e s t a t e d, on public grounds, that 2: - (!rn the landing at Monde *o, to the victory of Vi- Imerai the whole proceeding formed a splendid mo _uirnent el the m ili tar y gen i us of Sir A.Vvellesley. .'lit if he were to speak from private feeling he would - 1;• - , that ;hough from the commencement of his ca r:a. Sir A. Wellesley had deserved the applause, there an cccasic,n when his military genius shone with lu , ,ti•e than the present. He agreed that what A. Wellesley r.ad done, was the best promise of fait he would do, and there was no man so young :v . th such splendid and promising ability: •He was 11 ;ippy to be able to concur so completely in this mo iv'z, from the judicious course which the Noble Lord Itd adopted, in confining it to the conduct of the -; . : - er;11 and the Troops. Mr. BLACHFORD expressed his eatrone regret 2 v t , tLe treatment that hi g hly-di s ti ngu ished General, " A. WelleAev, had met with on his return to this c°44 trY• Ile had attacked and beaten, whatever might be said to the eeitrai yt a n enem y g read i r aCtiOn• gel Fikiriklded. by a high eomplirnent to the perior to hint i n num b ers ; an d if t h e N o bl e Lord [superio' enti of Sir Arthur Wellesley, and said would examine the documents, he would find it to be ilialthe whole of his conduct had been a splendid ca so. He w as sorry, however, to say, that instead of reer of glory. •He must, therefore, oppose the amend being received with enthusiasm on his arrival in this ment. country, as he deserved to be, he was conducted be- General STEWART spoke in very high terms of fore a tribunal as a culprit, which tribunal had de- the superior talents of Sir Arthur Wellesley, and said,' termined that o n ly equ al p ra i se was d ue to him who that he wa s strengt h ene d in the sentiments he had had bravely fought the battles of his country, and formed of him by the opinion of as good and brave beaten the enemy, as to him who had checked him an Officer as this country could ever boast to have had in his career of glory. The disasters of the cam. in its service. He meant Brio•adier-General Anstru paign that was j ust concluded he thought were wholly tiler, who had unfortunately ?allen a sacrifice to the owing to the superseding of Sir A. Wellesley ; for if great and over-exertions he had made in the recent he had continued in the command, the Convention of retreat of our army through Gallicia. That gallant Cintra would never have taken place ; but, on the General, he said, had told him that it was impossible contrary, iiistead of the retreat lately made from for man to conceive what astonishing exertions Sir Gallicia, he firmly believed our troops would have Arthur Wellesley had sustained through the whole been employed in driving the French over the Pyren- campaign; but however great and numerous the dif nees. He had been a witness to the whole of the ficulties which presented themselves, the resources of conduct of the distinguished General, to whom the his mind were always superior to them, and enabled Thanks of the House were then proposed to be vot- him to ward off all. He thought, therefore, it would fed ; and in his opinion it deserved every encomium ! be wrong to join Sir Harry Burrard in the vote of [ which language could bestow on it. If, in the course thanks, trough he had the highest respect for that of what he had said, any expression had fallen from gallant Officer. him that might be offensive to the friends of the gal- Mr - . ADAM gave 'he warmest praises to the con. lant Officer who had superseded him, he would as- duct of Sir A. Wellesley, to General Ferguson, and sure them, he did not mean to convey the smallest the other gallant Officers employed in the Expedition cen.aure on any thing they had done, but merely to to Portugal, and thought nothing could be more de ' express his sentiments as to the conduct and gallantry serving a vote of Thanks than the victory obtained at of the distinguished General who so well had earned Vimiera. He gave his decided vote for the nrocion, and deserved the high reward intended to be confer- and hoped his ' , ion. Friend, from whom he seldom red on him by the Thanks of the' House. disagreed in opinion, would reconsider the matter, and Tir Honourable Mr. LAMBE said, it must be withdraw his ttmendments, rather than interrupt the remembered that at the close of the battle of Vimiera, unanimity of the vote, which he had acknowledged differences of opinion had prevailed as to the future to have his unqualified approbation. proceedings of the army. A Board of G:aaeral Ofli- Mr. WHITBREAD said, that rather than his cers, appointed for the purpose of inquirng into the amendment should have the effect which his Honeur: matter, had since determined, that they could not say able Friend had suggested, of interrupting the ura to whom blame was imputable. and to whom it was nimity of the vote, he would, with the leave cr the not. A Vote of the. Thanks of the House to the gal- House, withdraw his amendment. lant General who commanded at Vimiera, would, in This was agreed to, and the resolution cf a Vote his opinion, be an approbation of his conduct during of Thanks to Sir Arartrua WELLESLEY was then put, the whole campaign ; and as a Board of General and carried, with the sole dissentient voice of Lord Officers had declared, they could not distinguish be- FoLaEsroNit. tween the merits of the several Generals concerned in , The Thanks of the House were next voted to Major the Armistice and Convention which followed the , Generals SPENCER, Hue, and FERCCSON ; and to battle of Vimiera, he could not give his assent to a Brigadier Generals AUCHMUTY, NIGHTINGALE, FARE, Vote of Thanks as then moved. and Bowes, and the Officers under their command. Lord CASTLEREAGH exnlained. I A resolution was then agreed to, expressive of the Colonel GROSVENOR spoke highly in praise of approbation of that House, of the conduct of the the gallantry and superior talents of Sir Arthur Wel- Non-commissioned Officers and privates. lesley, and gave his hearty assent to the motion. i INCREASE OF 111 E ARMY. Mr. WHITBREAD said, he could not suffer this i Lord CASTLEREAGH rose, pursuant to a no question to go to a vote without offering a few obser- lice on a former night, to call the attention of the I vations. He complimented the Noble Lord for the House to the necessity of increasing stilt farther the ' - candid and liberal manner in which he had brought regular and disposable force of the country ; and al [forward his motion, which had, he said, his unquali- • though he felt that the subject was of great magni• fled assent. He was sorry that, on the present occa- tude and importance, he did not think •it would he sion, some things had been said which would better necessary for him then to trouble the House at any have been let alone; and he hoped all would abstain great length. In the Speech which had been deli , from uttering any thing which might be construed vercd from the Throne at the commencement of the [ into an insinuation or stigma on the character of any Session, there was no topic as hich appeared to he gallant Officer. He alluded to Sir Harry Burrard, received with greater pleasure, and in which Parlia. who, instead of checking Sir Arthur 'Wellesley in his nient would be more disposed zealously to concur, career, as had been insinuated by an Honourable ; than that part of the Speech which declared his Ma- Gentleman on the floor (Mr. Blachford), had done [ jesty's intention to augment, 'by every pract . cable every thing in his power to forward his success. On • means, the military force of the country. It was such a day ass this, when so many families were la- evident that events might possibly occur which would menting the losses they had sustained by the disasters make it absolutely necessary for the country to have which recently attended our army in Spain, that gal- a considerable military foi ce at its .disposal ; and it lant General, he understood, had the misfortune to was necessary that there, should be a solid founda bewail theloss of a son, who had died the death of tion of military strength at home, in order that the honour in the h it-le of Corunna ; and he thought I best interests of the country might not be sacrifice d that when a vote of thanks was proposed , the best . jor endangered, while we were discharging the wa.y.fier the House to proceed would be to join Sir H.' duty we owe to other nations, of succouring them Burrard in that vote. if after what had passed, the as far as it shall be in our power. The principle of House did not give thanks to him who was at the mo- I the measure was, as lie believed, generally admitted ; ment of the victory actually commander in Chief, he and the only difference of opinion that he apprehend. thought they would not do trim justice. In all cases of ed was, with respect to the best and most effectual a Vote of Thanks, it was usual to join the Commander means of procuring the increase that was necessary in in Chief. Sir Hyde Parker, who had the ( o nmand in oar army. As he trusted the House would grant him chief at Copenhagen, committed the whole attack to leave to bring in his Bill, he should have opportunities the direction and execution of Lord Nelson. ;Oa his hereafter to' enter more fully into a defence of the return home, he received no honours, but he was in- i measure which he intended to propose. He did not eluded in the Vote of Thanks of both Houses. Sir wish, on the present occasion, to go into any general Harry Burrard arrived At the head-quarters of the arguments, but merely to put the House in possession army the evening before the battle of Vimiera, but of the general outline of the plan he wished to submit would not interfere with the plan of Sir Arthur Wel- ! to the consideration of Parliament. He was happy to ; lesley, and therefore delegated to him his authority, i state to the House that this plan did not rest upon his', and as Commander in Chief ha ought, as had al- j judgment and opinion merely, or that Of his Majesty's ways been.the case, to be included in the Vote of Ministers, but upon experience, which had recently Thanks He did not say this from any partiality to proved that the principle upon which it was founded that gallant General, for he had not the honour of i was the most effectual, and by far the most expedi• the slightest acquaintance with him. He did not tious means of supplying a deficiency in the regu know how the Court of Inquiry had formed their liar military force of the country. In 1807 the plan judgment ; but he did from authority know, that one ! was adopted of allowing a certain number of men Member of that Court had said, that if he was corn- to volunteer from the Militia into the regular Army, pelled to give an opinion between the two gallant Ge- ! and it was attended with the most beneficial con nerals, as to their conduct, it would rather be against i sequences. It had been now aseertaillad, that on Sir Arthur Wellesley than Sir Harry Burrard. He I every extraordinary crisis a considerable supply could wished, therefore, to move an amendment, that Sir; be obtained for the regular army, by availing our- Harry Burrard might be included in the Vote, and selves of the zeal and spirit which were always mania receive the Thanks of the House for his conduct. fested upon such occasions by the Militia, v.f.o were The CHANCELLOR 'of the EXCHEQUER always willing to volunteer when there was a great said, that if the Honourable Gentleman persisted in ! and permanent necessity for increasing the dispose. his amendment, it would be impossible to come to a able force. We had now so far profited by the oxpe vote on the present motion, without the resolution ; rience which had been derived from the success of the being brought forward in a different mode, and this last experiment, to feel a confidence that we might must fall to the ground. If any thing could induce ; always rely upon the spirit of the Militia on such oc the Howe to join in the amendment, he was sure i casions ; and out of 28,000 which were permitted to nothing could more incline them to do so than the volua j teer from the Militia into the line, more than melancholy event which the Honourable Gentleman 27,000 actually did volunteer within the space of had mentioned, of the severe loss which the gallant twelve months. They were certainly, from their dis- General had sustained. It was e however, clear that cipline and previous service, the very best recruits Sir Harry Barrard had, in his dispatches, separated which the army could have got. Many of them had himself from Sir Arthur Wellesley in the whole trans- I since participated in the glorious battles of Vimiera [ 'action, and gave him credit for the whole plan and and Corunna, and there were doubtless many privates execution of the victory. In doing this, he thought now in the Militia panting to distinguish themselves Sir Harry Burrard had acted with great gallantry, a gainst the enemy. There could be no doubt of the generosity, and forbearance, and, therefore , joining eicacy of such a measure, although there might him in the thanks would, he thought, rather hurt his possibly be some difference of opinion with respect feelings. With respect to the case of Sir Hyde Par- to the policy of it. There could be no doubt but that I ker, as Commander in Chief at Copenhagen, it was permitting volunteering• from the Militia was the men very different. The House at that time thanked Sir sure which would, in the least possible time, produce [ Hyde Parker for the dispositions he had made for I the greatest number of effective recruits for the re the attack of Copenhagen, and for appointing Lord gular army. If there must be any deficiency in our' Nelson to execute his plan. Sir Harry Burrard, on military establishments, it was better that such defi the contrary, had acknowledged that the dispositions cicncy should be in the irregular part of it. Upon were nothing but Sir Arthur Wellesley's. The House the last occasion, however, the deficiency which had could not, therefore, thank him on that ground with- been produced in the Militia, from allowing so many out hurting his feelings. He censured the cold man- of them to volunteer int) the line, had been speedily ner in which Lord Folkstone had contrasted the num- supplied. Within the 'short space of six months hers of the two armies, and insisted that though there (thanks to the great zeal of the different counties) [might be more Englishmen on the field that day than not less than 41,000 men were raised in Great Bri- Frenchmen, yet not so many were brought to engage; . tam and Ireland, and had actually joined their head for out of eight brigades three were not brou g ht into quarters. This certainly WA.S g ki4v7 pressure upon . . . . the country at that time, but the 'Witt shewed the ' great resources which the country possesses. This additional pressure should not however be laid on the nation, except in the case of obvious necessity ; and it was the bounden duty of his Majesty's Ministers to adopt every modification which would diminish, the J pressure. The extent to which he now proposed to limit the volunteering into the line would be, that no , regiment of Militia should be reduced to less thati three-fifths of its present force, and instead of 36,000 men to be raised in England to supply the deficiency, he should now propose only 24,000. He apprehended that it would be impossible to get rid of the ballet al- . ' together ; but still an effort might be made to obtain men by a milder process, and to relieve the counties from the great pressure which they had been expo sed to formerly. For this purpose he should propose that a great part, if not the whole of the expence of rais ing the men should be defrayed uot by the counties,btit I by the public.—( Loud sties of hear, hear!) —He should propose that the public should pay the bounty for en listing,not altogether as high a bounty as wouldbegiven for enlistiag for more general service, but what he thought would be a sufficient bounty ; about ten guineas. If the voluntary enlistment did not succeed, and that the country should be compelled to have recourse to a ballot, it was his intention, in that case, to propose chat the bounty of ten guineas should be given to the balloted man, to assist him in procuring a substitute. —Where the country gentleman should find that the expence fell upon the public, and not upon the coun, ties, he bad great hopes that their local exertions in support of the measure would be more effectual., —He was very sanguine in believing, that by this means a sufficient number of men might be got, without any material or very sensible pressure upon the country. If, however, his hope was disappointed, and a ballot should he absolutely necessary, even in that case the pressure of ballot upon individuals would be snitch diminished by the assistance which they would receive from the public purse. Having thus put the. House in possession of the general features of the plan. ;Aid' he intended to submit to the consideration of Parliament, he should not enter into any general ob servations upon the present occasion ; but hoping that he would in future stages of the Bil have opportuni- • ,ies enough to answer any objections which might be made to the plan, he should now content himself witty moving, that leave be given to Lang in a Bill to ale low a certain aumber of the Militia to enter into the regular Army. ~ Mr. TIERNEY said, he could not approve any' increase of the. army, on the ground of a larger, number of men being wanted for foreign ser vice, as he did not know on what foreign service; our armies could now be usefully employed. He thought thet before the House agreed to give a larger disposable force to Government, they ought to have an account from Ministers of what they had done with that great force which had been voted abroad two years ago. The I louse should also know what deficiency there was in that which the Noble Lord then called a sufficient disposable force, or how that deficiency was occasioned. Before he couid vote for imposing any farther burdens on the country, he must be informed of the necessity of it, and he must also consider the hands who were to administer the military resources of the country.—' With all the praise which had been so justly confer red on our gallant Officers, against whom there was not the slightest imputation, still every man felt that England had never suffered such a discomfiture as had lately befallen it under the administration of the Noble Lord. He rose at present merely to guard himself against the supposition, that it wes his opinion that a greater disposable force ought to be entrustedeo those Ministers who had managed so badly what tliey had hitherto had under their direction. Sir T. TURTON could not consent to one six pence increase in the burdens of the country, until the absolute necessity should be proved. They had voted last Session for 183,000 men, and yet, when it came to sendihg an army to the relief of Spain, not more than 25000 men could be collected. The army had displayed valour, but, as usual, it was only in resisting she attacks of the enemy. Their valour was sufficient to secure their retreat, but not to gain the fruits of victory. He did not find more than 30,000 men had been employed in Spain and Portugal. . He therefore could not see what use Ministers made of the dispo- , sable force, about which they talked so much, and he should therefore oppose the present Bill in every stage. The sum voted for our army last year, including ord nance, was 23 millions ; and when so great a vote could only produce 36,000 men to oppose the enemy, 'he coasidered it unnecessary to vote any increase of the public burdens upon this account. Lord MILTON said, it was unnecessary for iiim to remind the House, that about 17 months ago they debated a similar proposition. At that time the No ble Lord (Castlereagh) expressly stated, that it was a measure only to be resorted to upon an extraordi nary occasion, but that it was not to be looked to as a general system for supplying the army. Now it ap peared that it was to be adopted as a regular system for supplying the army ; and the principle upon which these Bills went, was nothing less than raising the re- . gular army by a conscription on the people of this country. He wished to know for what purpose the Noble Lord wanted greater disposable armies.? Did he mean to send another army to Spain, to endeavour to turn back the tide of Bonaparte's successes, or di.: he mean to send another expedition to Sweden, to return as the last did, the ridicule of the world ? He. hoped, however, that if another expedition was sent to Swe den, it would not be a hostile expedition against that country. He thought it absolutely necessary for that House, as representatives of the nation, to enquire into the conduct of the last campaign in Portugal, in. to the expedition to Sweden, and into ,the conduct of Ministers with respect to Spain. Hi . .could not see why the Noble Lord wanted more diet:fineable troops, or to what part of the world he could send them, with advantage to the country. He considered that in the present situation of affairs, instead of sending large ar mies to foreign countries, we ought to shut ourselves up within ourselves, and think of that description of force which would be most useful in the defence of our own country.' Such being his view Of the true policy of the country, he felt it his duty to express his opinion upon the present occasion ; and he could not consent to incres ss the burdens of the country, for the sake of putting a large disposable force in the hands of his Idajest s present Ministers. Mr. ERBERT was of opinion that greater re se oula fse placed on the service of the l'Ohia 1111 111