Star. — London, England, 1816-05-31 00:00:00

w_ y• iv) neuter , in that event, the now Aver coinage was Litt likely kite melted down ? Every One MCA ri **ober the fate of the Bank Dollars upon an ep.. luineement of the price of Silver, and the ttecessity which the Bank felt of issuing three subsequent totent, bf comparatiyely less 'intrinsic ralue—there • fore it behoved the Hodge to ioniider the fate of the hew Coinage, upon is .probable i rhie *is the price of Silver: He called upon their Lordships toinquire, before they crinsented in idopt such a measure. If the Noble Lord woula 4uote aulhbritiel in support of ! his iikeis, be (Lord Lauderdale) pledged himself w' bring forwaid Orally high authorities . in favour ot an opposite opinion. He had no doubt, indeed. of! 'being able to adduie Several Most intelligent meh at the Bar of the House, to demonstrate the ‘ineipe dieney of the Noble Lord's course of proceeding, and that paPei• must soon resume its relative value with otir metallic currency. With respect to the Noble. Earl's allusion to the Copper Coinage, the fate of the cb hrge of 1797 was well known—that as the cop per was soon of mere value than the Coin, it became . necessary to issue a coinage of much less intrinsic value, and a similar consequctice would,'he had no doubt. follow from the present measure. But as to the Silver in circulation he submitted, that indemnity was due from Parliameut to the holders of the pre sent currency, of whatever nature it might be, espe cially considering that the ezistence of such a cur rency was owing to the conduct which Parliament irse.t had pursued for years back. 'Therefore, he ught, that aitli a view; to cotisidet the mode of retillio: that indemnity, it would beconie that House iud the other House also, to appoint a Committee rtt feydry—for otherwise many poor people were but too likely to suffer from the state in which the toun fey had been so long left by the conduct of Parlia ment itself, especially in not supplying the public an adequate quantity of proper Silver Coin.— Now, he had to appeal td the Noble Mover upon his own principles, what was to be expected front issuing ,u new Silver Coinage, comparatively superior in in triosic value to the Bank tokens, with which it was to be accompanied ? But on the whole his wish was that the adoption of this measure should be post poned• until the currency of the country should be come somewhat settled by the restoration of cash payments by the Bank. The Noble Mover had hint. self stated a reason which obviated any inconvenience it -m the delay he proposed, by alledging that the whole of the new Silver Coinage necessary, might, through the improved machinery at the Mint, be prepared within a very few months .—( Near, he ar,) Therefore a metallic currency might soon be pro. viled to supply the place of paper, at a, time coo *hen metal might be bad at the cheapest rate, and when it would nut be likely to rise in price Ales *Jrds. As to the metal proper to be settled as the standard of value, if the Noble Mover thought pro p. r to fix upon gold, he (Lord Lauderdale) SAW no reason why there should be any Mint 'Coinage of Silver, or why individuals should not be left to coin shillings and sixpences for circul.itioni according to their inuinsic value, without making them a legal ttuder, just as private tokens were issued some time ago. The gohle Lord concluded with proposing the following Amendment, to be inserted atter the Word 66 that" in the original Address a " Assuring his Royal Highness that this House has taken*, its moat serious coustdenetien his Royal Highness's Mee. OS the subject of the new Silver Coinage ; and that they froth tench duty respectfully to state to his Royal Highness, that the sup. premise of the Silva Coin now in circulation must be attended with great expense, and cannot be e ff ected without serious in irenoessience, and in finite lois to the lower orders of the comma likyt and that it appears to them in the highest degree uncertain whether the country will derive. any benefit from the measure,— ' Ow they must entertain the greatest doubts concerning; the new coin remaining cur any length Of time iu circulation, under the piano circumstances of this country, in relation to its currency. That this Hearn learns, from the authority of the Legisia. owe in the recatubla to the Asa of the Pith of George U. chapter 46th,that ao Act made in the *Ph year of her late Majesty Queen An s, foe us:enabling the rate of foreign coin in her Majesty's Ash, rum plantations hat been entirely frustrated by the crea tion el great quantities at paper bills ; and that they feel it, there fore,* duty, humbly to represent to his Royal Highness, that ft is io.po.uhle fur them not to fear that any regulation his Royal Highness may be adetsed to adopt cone.eruing a new Silver Coinage fur this country, may, in like manner, he rendered of no a a.i, %%bast die Bank of England, as well as 642 other Banking E t,:bitalutights, bevos right to increase the paper currency et die reuuory to any extent whfch their respective interests may lila; der desirable. " That this House thhtk It further necessary humbly to express NSW* lint at H sham their extreme eurprise, that this measure ssiould have been suggested by his Royal Highness's Advisers, at a' moment when they must be conscious that, by persuading Parliament to provide great part of the Ways and Means fee the etpeodintre gibe year, by advance from the Bank of England, they have ihruisised an opportunity and an inducement to that tioreporation to it crease their paper to such an extent as must, in coney: rem with that of others, in all probability boded from circulation the new Coin, which they are advhlng his Earl II ghness to issue. " that, under these circumstance*, this Horse Alt ei Slaty dry owe to themselves to the public, and to his Stowe altltb; bras humbly to implore his Royal Highness to pompano though:a of providing a new and extensive issue of silver cele s tes the purpore of reconsidering a measure of so much importance, and o' Maturely.deliberating whether, at a moment ofilids Ri M. chit diluent, it is justifiable to impose such a tank. an' bil• pe.tple, more erpeciaely es ht mint by all be tleefeeil at least uaeNb tain whaler it can be attended with any benefit to the'conalifoge nay, if canted into execution during the coutinuar.ce of the no unction oaf cash payments at the Bank of Bashi:id." The Larl of LIVERPOOL. rose, he said, not to reargue the quo scion, but to speak to a matter of fact. The cost of the new silver coinage was esti. mated at 5e500,000 ; but the Noble Lord had thought proper to estimate it at 89,600,000. Now he the Nag of Liverpool) could not imagine upon what ground the Noble Lord rested an estimate so incom patible with the actual amount of our silver currency. For the whole cf the silver coinage of King William was about six millions, and with the exception of a serail quantity in tl:e reign of Queen Anne, there had once noun toutly been no stiver coinage whatever. The Earl of LAUDERDALE observed, that his estimate rested upon that of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, wt o a, peared to calculate that only one out of twenty shillings in circulation was not of the soinage of the Mint, whereas he (the Earl of Lau.! derdale) took the more probable calculation, that' 19' oat of 20 were of that description. But most likely the Chancellor of the Exchequer was as much in g e r m in this case as he ups in Liti Budget, in omitting shall Transport Service, mad two whams .and a bah, ot• grants. • ' 'f,be Earl of LL . VERPOOL iwexplanation, • said, 'shot no data Were stated for estimating the cast Gt the new coinage at Iftoo.ooo. • 'lse Ast.endment was negatived, and the original a division.- kdjouraed. .;• • • - _ _ • 1 m e" osti e bThi s. • ,••• .• HO . iti.Rbss ibswv•out tvie•aumheovirtie do 'was ? m ire» bid" sof wit i rj a l=Pll l6l ll Was afterwards remikvd, parsiant w she ef the Mr. HUSKIHION moved Isglkatilb Writ w tits room of the Right Moveable George Cassia,. he Wag sister hk elealeo acce?ted the office or First Conimissioniir tar dm Albin of India Mr. LYrl3-10 ON espreeisd hie imp** at then sune taken by the Han. Member, in making the modes so adj. and with to skin an attendance of Members. He maw be aware that such an appointment must manually fiChe inquiry, and he would &wear, %aspic the propriety of deterring the motion till a later Wind in the itecal ! • Mr. HU`KISSOK sabis lie ad not see the necessity foe such pompom:nat. It trauma unesatii thing for Members of that House to accept offices ander Government. and span such accept. aver, it was usual to move a new writ inuardiately. writ was (ben ordered accordingly : ROMAN CATHOLICS. Sir H. PARNELL rose to present a Petition from the'Bishops and Clergy professing the Roman Ca tholic Religion in Ireland, expressing their surprise . and regret at th e restrictions iatencled to be sm r posed upon their future nominatjons, io the event of Catholic Emancipation being granted: The Hon. Baronet dwelt at some length upon the exemplary character of the Catholic Clergy in Ireland, and ob served, that they were no less remarkable for their loyalty and zeal'as faithful subjects, than for their highly moral and decorous habits. He added, that with a view to bring under the attention of the Horne some of the disabilities which oppressed the Irish Ca tholics, he should, on Thursday next, move for a Committee to take into consideration all the different Petitions which had been presented this Session upon the subject ; and in that Committee be proposed to submit certain Resolutioni f the object of which would be, to obtain for the Catholics that minor degree of relief which would be afforded by opening to them those offices and privileges which, it had been ad mitted, on a famer occasion, they might safely re ceive. He then moved that the Petition should be brought up. deueral MATHEW took that opportunity of rec tifying some misstatements which had been made in the public Papers (Unintentionally, no doubt). as to what be said on a former evening, when the Catholic Claims were discussed. In the first place, his voyage to Rome had no connection whatever with the Veto, still less to obtain the sanction of the Pope to that measure. He was in fact, against it, on two grounds: as a Protestant he was against it, because he thought it would tend to increase the power ot the Crown, which was already too great a and, secondly, as . well-wisher to the Catholics of Ireland. He was convinced there was not one man in a thousand in Ireland who approved of the Veto. The other point upon which be had been misrepresented was, as to the securities which the Catholic Body was disposed to give. What he said was, that they would grant every security hi unison with their Bishops and Clergy, and that was proved by the Petition now before the House. Colonel BARRY doubted whether the House could receive the Petition, inasmuch as it professed to be from persons who called themselves the Bishops, and not the titular Bishops of Ireland. Sir J. C. HIPPTSLEY urged the same objection, and referred to a clause in a statute of the 23d Geo. 11. which, he conceived to be still in force, and rectly hostile to the Petition. He had consulted calm authotities likewise, and did not see bow the House , could receive the Petition, consistently with its duty. Sir J. NEWPORT contended, that the Act of 1793 did away the obnoxious parts of the statute cited by the Honourable Baronet. He condemned the practice of searching through the penal provisions of former statutes, to revive feelings of animosity against the Roman Catholic Clergy. He thought it Would be affixing a stigma upoit them, it they rejec ted the Petition, and declared his intention ot taking the sense cf the House, though he should stand alone. Sir J. C. HIPPISLEY explained. Mr. L. FOSTER said, he bad looked at the Act and the Petition, and saw no objection to its bring received. If the Petitioners had assumed the tides of their different Sees, that would have been a ground of objection. But they merely sived their Christian and surnames, without assuming any such titles. Sir J. NICHOLL observed, that the Petitioners did not even assume the appellation of Bishops of Ireland, but simply Bishops professing the Roman Catholic religion. Sir H. PARNELL replied, when the Petition was brought up. read, and ordered to lie on the table, after a few words from Mr. PRESTON. Sir H. PARNELL then gave • regular notice of the motion which he had intimated in the course of his observations. VARGIM NOTIL General THORNTON rose, pursuant to notice, to move for an account of the expenses incurred by the Bank of England,. in prosecuting persona for issuing forged Notes, &c. during the last four years, from the Ist January, 412, to Ist January, 1816. He observed that, according to return, made to that House, forged notes to the amount of £lOO,OOO had been refused . payment 'by the Bank , which most pi!. a cessaril y be great evil to the public. . Mr. THORNTON said, he did not percel4a the , utility of the motion, compliance With which would necessarily be attended with great trouble and delay. Tue motion was then negatived without a division. PltartaTY TA X. Mr. BROUGHAM to.postpone a motion of an Honourable Friend of his, which stood for that day, respecting certain papers cornected with the West Indies. Particular business had required his Friend's absence from town, for eight or ten days ; but he hoped to be able to-monow to fix the•day for' bringing it on. The Honourable and Learned Mem ber then proceeded to a Motion of which he bad him self given notice, for the destruction of the papers, returns, &c: made up under the late Property Tax Acts, so far as they contained the names and designa tions of individuals. •He said it sold not be neces. 'aary'for him to trouble the House with any observe-1 `fiats, because the Right Honourable Gentleman was disposed to accede substantially to the object of his motion. He should only wish to hear Irons that Right Hunoinahle Gentleman, the mode which be intended to adopt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that with regard to returns already made to the T.sx (Mier, directions bad been given to erase' ti.e names, and that: all dime whien had not bean sent in yet, instinction: wait issued to make. them up blalit, I..trotg La aututitt Mite instead ut the nattle ~, --. • eilweiled blind* imaildef "tithed so far as •retateti io the vomit' .oth 'item to be salit in blank ; but doubted' dune which Were &tidy is the Tax Office, and were to hare the .names erased only, would be so com pletely obliterated as it was hi. wish they should be. • The CHANCELLOR of the -EXCHEQUER said a few words in esplanation. Mr. ROSE brought up a farther Report of the Leather Committee. Ordered to lie on the table. THE 'BANK. Lord A. HAMILTON postponed his motion re specting the Bank Bonus. He observed, it was his intention to propose, that the Bank should be re strained from increasing their dividend, or giving any Bonus, until the Restriction Act upon cash pay ments expired. Mr. GRANT wished to have some explanation respecting the plan adopted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, relative to the Bank Dividends. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER spoke a tew words which were inaudible in the gallery. • Mr. GRENFELL said, the public were surely entitled to their share of these Dividends. The ave rage payment of these Dividends exceeded one mil lion, and it was no more than justice to grant the public some advantage from them. He, however, congratulated the House, that the principle of grant ing some relief to the public from these, had now been recognised. • He remembered in 1791, that a long Petition, which occupied nine columns of the Journals of the House, bad been presented by the Bank Directors, in which they deprecated the grant ing any share of the' dividends to the public, as a step likely to be baneful in the extreme. Experience had, however, shewn the contrary. The Bill to be read 'a second time on Thursday week. PROPERTY TAX ARREARR. . The CHAiiellLok --- 01tiiiiiidHEQUER brought in his Bill, of which he had given notice, for regulating_ the mode in which the Arrears upon the rroperty Taz should be collected. After a few words from Mr. BARING and the CHANMLOR Of the EXCHIQUER. the Bill was brought in; and read a first time. Lord CASTLEREAGH gave notice of his in tention to move toinorrow, that the House at its rising adjourn to Thursday nest. FITZ:ITS IN AIN. . _ Mr. WM. SMITH rose to call the attention of the House, to the motion of which he had formerly given notice, and which he had several times put off for the convenience of the House, net from any conviction of its being unnecessary. That delay, however, had done some goad. The evil of which he meant to complain, bad' long been growing, and particularly of late, yet it was not too late to check its force. The number of Extents in Aid had rapidly increased, and particularly had been very great last year. He had no doubt of receiving some assistance from Learned Gentlem n of the opposite side, and he was confi dent, if any division took place, it would rather be respecting the extent than the nature of this evil. Extents in Chief were those issued by the Crown. for the recovery of debt due to it, and Extents in Aid, were those granted by the Crown. when the party was unable to pay that debt. The word es preroga live," as applied to the Crown, bad been carried to a very great extent, and he believed was a cant expres sion in all ranks, from the Lord Chancellor to the lowest writer. The hardships of the subject were very l great, as for example, in common executions the previous steps necessary to be taken, occupied three months, while in this case there was no suck liberty given. The Honourable Gentleman, at very great length, entered into a history of the circumstances attending these Extents, which he argued were op. pressive in the extreme, as dispensing with many of the ordinary forms of justice, and involving the person in a heavy expense, which he was totally un able to pay, for by giving no warning it seized all his goods, and though he delivered all up, he had no benefit fiom any Insolvent Act, but was al lowed to languish amid the horrors of a prison. All this was the case, unless the Crown declared itself satisfied. The cases which had occurred would be deemed injustice, even in Turkey. In order to thew that it was a new practice. he quoted instances in 1686 and 1781, in _which the Court had declared that it would not let the prerogative be made a handle to get in a private debt. It had been lately held, however, as stated in the last book on the sobject 66 Bingham's 1..4W of Executions," published in 1815, and on the common form being pursued of niaking an affidavit, and applying for the fiat, it would issue, and the extent proceed on that, although there might be reason to believe that the party had made hin.self a debtor to the Crown, for the purpose of stripping all his other creditors. Mr. Bingham quoted 44 Tydd's Practice" for this statement.— Among outer cases which might occur, he would suppose a widow lady, who had incurred a debt to a common tradesman for, articles of apparel, beyond what her immediate meansenable ber to pay; waiting, *perhaps, for her dividend to enable her to do so. It this tradesman had borrowed money trom a banker; if this banker had become surety for a sub.distributor , of sumps in a neighbouring country , and if this sub distributor were to render himself liable to an extent, that extent would proceed against the banker, and against the tradesman, and against the poor widow, who, on her return from a walk, might find her house ransacked, and all her property in the hands of • the officers of the law: •6 So penetrating and all. powerful indeed is this process," continued the Ho nourable Gentleman, that one may use towards it the lines of Pope, applied to a different object, and say that it 44 Lives through OM, extends through all extent, Spreads undivided, operates unspent." The Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to state I some of the numerous cases of hardship which had come to his knowledge, in not one of which did he believe the Crown WAS benefited one shilling by the extent, the original debtors having been fully able to satisfy the debt, ten, twenty, or Mil* fold. One of these cases was that of a London corn-dealer, against , whom a docket was stiuck; a country correspondent of whom hiving a bill by him, went to a farmer of the post-horse duty, who discounted it, knowing the; man was about so be a bankrupt, and who then swore the debt was an original debt, and etidenvouyed to get an talent against. the corn dr i ller, which it cost ; lifilSAVINi to art aside. &Übe( was of two; i wboks with t them Report thirevert'a, due a b: ePa i vr4ns na t' the result 'wuhlht...4ofdlimhawaadi.gn'tihhbwiltceteenh,s.t.stenoaws saathatielmitorsigutthset:ditidtttliateraheliFteal.:c::.74::"‘Ler. Into jail, and to deprive their other a eaitnn the *tilling. The other case was of an ingimion s ,. of the name of Holden, who, having projected 4 l e &dal Directory in four volumes, pride fi ler hignsc a n i t n f se h i e n n m t so o ig m f h e l t i a i p s i r f6 c o r e c ed e l l i d t t i o es w rs a it rt t i n t l iii e 'e w : s4- ok ; . and fi nding limitary, Whit fi rst volume, obtained, as lie.eona. t th it:e u , n i a n n o iln rcrer s th c after which consent, however, the same pap4. m to : to whom he (Mr. Smith) had referred in his las t case, sued out an extent against him, and an too c other things, seized the volumes of his incomple; work, which were sold at one shilling each colter`; The consequence was, that only as much mousey produced as paid the paper maker, and poor it o f d ; was thrown into prison, where he died in six • of a broken heart. Having stated the h ddi* ar fix a i n fully, he now came to the remedy which he pr eposti t' namely, the appointment of a Committee to ivies& gate the facts and the law, and to suggest to the l fk ate u d ie to su m c e h et in t e h a e s e u v re il s . ' "l ` f s of Exchequer had a jurisdiction over its own la mp and was, therefore, competent to remedy to e ev iL,. He thought it, however, better to resort to that Home for its correction. There were two methods by which a remedy could be afforded. The 6 • en, and that which h a i n cl t i o he th s e ho a u b ld use pret . a e n r, d House. The next, was bringing in a Bill t o a l ter and amend the law on the subject. If his motionit e a Select Committee should not be agrees/ to, t o would adopt the latter plan, and with the help of his Honourable and Learned Friends who sat near him, would endeavour to prepare such a Bill as would effect the desired remedy. It would, with the House to do with the motion which he should submit, that which they conceived proper. He the e moved—" That a Select Committee be appointed to examine into the practice of granting Extents is Aid to the Debtors of the Crown by the Court of Ex. chequer, with the abuses which had been made of this practice, and report thereon to the House." The SOLICITOR-GENERA L observed, that the Honourable Member (Mr. Smith) would find himself and his Honourable and Learned Friend (the Attorney-General) ready and anxious to assist him in the prevention of any abuse is the practice 4 granting Extents in Aid. He (the Solicitrx.G eoc rah) had, since he came into office, been most anti. ous to prevent such abuses ' • and had found it h a duty, though Counsel for the Crown, to apply to the Court to set aside all such Extents as had bees improperly obtained. Whenever he had made such application, the Court bad invariably set the Extent aside. He admitted that a greater number of these Extents had been ,issued of late than in lot. mer years, and he also knew that several of them had been abused ; but it was impossible to pre. vent abuses of almost every law; and it should be recollected, that of many of the Extents issued, which had been abused, the Court never had received any knowledge, as the parties who were injured had not made any complaint. It would then be un. lair to argue that the Court had not the power of correcting this abuse, as it could not correct that which it had no knowledge. But such abuses as had come to the knowledge of the CoUrt had invariably been remedied. He would have proposed the intro. duction of a Bill by the Hononrable Gentleman, a that would have specified the abuse, and proporei 4 distinct remedy, but in the present instance that could not be so well done by a Committee. 'Lite Court of Exchequer had it fully in its power to correct the abuses of which the Hon. Gentleman had complained, and lie (the Solicitor-General) would repeat, he had not known a case where the Court had not afforded* remedy when any instance of abuse came before it. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Smith) seemed to think that these extents were issued in cases of disputed debts, and that the parties against whom they were jawed, had no redress in consequence of the extent. This was certainly erroneous, for the parties had i right to traverse the inquisition, founded on the ex. tent, if they conceived themselves to be injured-; (Hear, hear, hear).—As to what had been said about the juries who were impannelled on such inquisition; being persons of low rank; it was certainly a treat( of "duty in the returning officee, if such were ap' twisted ; but as far as he (the Solicitor General) could learn, the same juries were appoioted to try those inquisitions, as were summoned to determine matters of greater importance. Cot:side/ring then* that the Court of Exchequer had sufficient power to remedy any abuse in the issuing of extents, and that the present motion was unnecessary, he should mov i e the previous question. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY felt it las duty to' support the motion of his Honourable Vriend (Mr. Smith) unless a stronger case could bemade out; than that which had been attempted by tie Honour able and Learned Member who spoke last. If the cases which his Honourable Friend had mentioned could not be considered abuses, he (Sir Samuel R milly) should be glad to know what could be called an abuse ? It was certain that persons indebted to' the Crown had obtained extents in aid of their own private purposes; it was, therefore, a fair subject of inquiry how far that abuse had gone, and what wit the best renicdy ? Many of the case* which haif come to his knowledge were instances of very grew abuses of the prerogative. An opulent banker of the City of London happened to be a dtbtor to the Crown ; and after discharging that debt, to have more than a hundred thousand pounds of residue this person, having a debtor a bankrupt, gor an extoo in aid, by which means he obtained a priority over Al the other creditors. Extents in aid ought newer to be given, unless the sum due to the Crown was en dangered without such process, and after oath being made to that effect. The effect of extents in aid had not only been to give one creditor a preference over all other creditors, but it had come to Ms knowledge that they had caused the boa kroptcy of a great mill persons, who were prevented from receiving a siuste dividend by this preference to one creditor. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted, that it Country Bankers held the situatiou of Receivers of the Revenue, from the multiplied ctondnietcmtionighwt produce ltich they g h re a a d t , tint would. The Lords at the head of the Tress uy hiutseif had thcii:ture Coale to a ovnutisni tad ( caonnylusio thingn it ' the t c ul o g gsn t ir a• dm Ma. Job As NV Svg It