Star. — London, England, 1807-03-06 00:00:00

gallantry, the !kill, the loyalty, and the fpirit which they difplayed every where, and on every fervice in which they had been employed. Thefe would be the fubjett of the approbafi , n and gratitude not of him alone, but, he truffed, of ever y man in the Houk, capable of appreciating eminent fervices rendered to his country. His t.bj ft was to do that generally for perfons of all religious perfuallous, which was at pre tent permitted in Ireland, and to extend to every one the privilege of defending his country. To this, as far as the general feeling of this country went, he thought there could be no objettion. (Hear, hear!) The difference between the Irith Act, and the Bill which he intended to offer to the Houk, was this. In the Mill AB, this privilege, or right, as he ihould rather call it, was applicable fir the army alone, and for this reafon, that Ireland had no navy. The pre fent Bill would allow perfons of all religions, to f:rve both in the Army and Navy. In the propriety of this, he was perfuaded, the Hou'e would agree with him. If Catholics were allowed to firve in the army, he was at a lots to difcover any reafonable grounds for objeeting to their fee ving in the navy alfo. If any poiale danger could arife from allowing Catholics to ferve in the army, that danger mug be greaten when they were ferving in a Catholic coun y; and yet, by a mange inconfillency, they were allowed to fei ve in Ireland, where there were 3,c00,0rz0 of Catholic population, and they were Prohibited from ferving in England, where the perfons profef ling the Catholic religion did not conßitute a greater proportion than one in twenty of the other religious perfuafinns. In the Bill which he fhould propofe, it was not his intention to continue the rettriftions of the Irifh A& He law no good reafon why an Ofli cer, profeffing the Catholic religion, fhould not be eligible to the offices from which he was excluded by the provitinns of that Ad. For his part, he faw no danger in it. He would propofe that they fhould be admitted generally, and without reftriftion, both into the army and navy. This he would propofe on the fame principle that the laws of both countries were aflimilated. It was unneceffitry for him to point out to the Houfe the inconvenience wiling from the ex ;fling reftriaion. As the law flood at prefent, an Officer might ferve with ditlinaion and pre-eminence as a Major 9r a Colonel, but the moment he attained to a higher rank, his country became deprived of the benefit of his fervices. The reariaion was a difad vantage to the Country and the Service. As a fecurity, no perfon could fuppofe for a monment, that it was worth any thing. It would always be in the ' difcretion of the Executive Government to employ whom it pleafed. The refiriaion, in fail, could tend to no good effea whatever, and might poffibly give rife to much difcontent. It would be the objet of the Bill, not only to open the army and navy to per fons of all religions, but to fecure to thofe who were already employed the fame privilege. It might be objeaed to him, that provition might be made for this in another way. He would be told, perhaps, that this free exercife of religion praeically exifts.— To this, he would anfwer, that he was afraid it was not always fo. He had become acquainted with fome infiances, in which no liberality of this kind was dig . - played. The effet of there intlances was to excite dilcontent, to prevent people from engaging . in the army and navy, and to diffufe general fufpictou and apprehenfion of infecurity. To prevent the pnflibi lity of the recurrence of any fuch vexations fur the future, was a chief motive with him for bringing in c the prefent bill. He did not fuppofe that much ob jeaion could be made to it in the fire flage, particu larly when its objea was of fo liberal a nature, as to provide that Diffenters of any kind than not be inter. rived in the exercife of their religion. It would, per haps, be a latisfaaion to thole who might not be very cordial in their approbation of the principle of this Bill, to learn, that it was not intended that any religious eftablithment timid be connelled with it. It would require neither pliefts nor chaplains. He hoped when the lubjea was coolly and difpaffionately confidered, that there would be no objeftion to the Bill. He would not enter further into the quellion at prefent, but referve himfelf for the arguments which might be offered againQ it. His Lordfitip concluded with moving, for leave to bting in a Bill to allow perfons of all Religions Perfuations to cuter into the Army and Navy, and to fecore to them the free exercife of their religion, &c. &c. Mr. PERCEVAL role, not fo much to ohjea to the par ticular meafure which was propofed, as to exprefs his fears that this was but the beginning of a fytlem which would, in its confequences, when fully thfcloied, be highly dangerous to the conititut ion and Proteflant Ellablifbment of this country. He per ceived that, liep by Rep, and from day to day, they were bringing forward meafures which, he thought, moil end in the total repeal of tens in this country. He therefore confidered this bill as a partial repeal of the Teti Aft. He could not confider that it would be for the intereft of Ireland, as he was firmly per bladed that nothing was more important for the wet. fare of Ireland than a Protellant Ellablifhtnent, and a Proteltant afcendency. There was no man who was a greater friend to toleration than himfelf, or who would more with that every perfon should have the free exercife of his religion ; but it was becaufe he was a friend to toleration that he did not with to favour a religion which had been always intolerant when in power, to the prejudice of the Eflablithed Religion, which had always praaited toleration. It was always on the ground of toleration that thofc innovations were brought forward. One day, in the name of toleration, the Houfe was called upon to grant a confider able funs of money to educate Priefts, to, the purpofe of preaching the Catholic Religion to 3,000 coo of people, and the next day they were cal led on to grant !till farther ccinceffions. The reafon ing of the Honourable Gentlemen who fupported thole perpetual conceffions, appeared to reQ on this principle, that one religion is very newly as good as another, and that, therefore, no man's religion fhould difqualify him from political power. 1 hey teemed to think that the Reformation itfelf v - as a mere political mature. The Noble Lord (Howick) had profeffed th e moll decided and abfolute preference of the Ella blithed Religion, but Rill had voted for the granting funds to the preachers of the Catholic R eligion.— Many might fuppofe that this was quite agreeable, not only to liberality of fentiment but to found policy, but he entertained an opinion direaly contrary. He thought that the objeft of the Noble Lord would be completely anfwered by regulations in the articles of war which his Majefty might at any time introduce. But, even as the law now (toed, he confidered the Catholic as coveted from the effeaa of any of the old Aftc. The Mutiny Bill enabled his Majetty to call for the fervice 01411 his fuhjees, on pain of death if they difobeyed : what occation, therefore, had the Noble Lord to introduce a new Bill, for enabling his Majefly to accept the fervice of any of his fubjeas ? He dif appr"ved very much of the mode in which Govern. ment prcceede). to fritter away the Proteflant afcen dancy in Ireland, but should take a future opportu nity of delivering his opinions at greater length on that important fubjed. Lord TEMPLE contended, that the whole of the arguments of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman went the length of overturning every principle of policy and juflice which one fed of Chriflians was bound to entertain for another. They were argu ments better calculated for the dark ages of unenlight ened man, than for the more polithed are of the igth century. He called to that Honourable Gentleman's recolledion, the circumllances which he Warta - on a former occalion acknowledged, that many perfons in the Catholic pettirafion were aheady in the army, and he appealed to his candour, whether in the con do& of officer or private, he ever knew or heard of one clamorous event throughout that army atifing from teligiolis prejudices? If any thing could give them a title to confederation, that certainly ought, and a fLoncter recommendation they could not have. Mr. YORKE did not object to the principle of the Bill, efpecially as the Irith Parliament had recog. nized it ; and he thought that the Britith could . not do let's than follow their example; and he waaallo free to confers that the Bill was aging with i jug regard to reciprocal rights, when its enacting chutes were extended to the navy ; but he was Tather apt prehetifive that the Noble Lord (Temple) went a little toe far, when he charged the precautions of our anceflors in the reflrkling laws which they made againft Popery, as arifing from the prejudices of the dark ages. He would bring to that Noble Lord's mind the epochs when thofe laws were made. They were made at the perild when they connituted and formed the Bill of Rights ; when they ellablifhed and fecured the public liberty ; and when they placed the Houfe cf Hanover upon the Throne of thefe Realms. It was true, however, that the dangers that exifled when thefe reflri9ing laws were made, had, in a great degree, ceafed, and he was therefore of opinion, that a relaxation of their feverer prohi. bitions was now nectifary ; but thefe matters of re laxation fhould be adopted with a cautious regard to public fafety ; it was quite impodible for him or for any man to forget the melancholy and tragic fcenes that occurred in Ireland in 179 S ; and; with thefe in remembrance, it was impnffible not to apprehend that too rapid a relaxation might lead to the mon dangerous confequences. The Bill, however, as far as he had an opportunity of confidering it, had his fupport, but he would net pledge hirofelf to the whole of its enacting claufes. The Catholics of Eng land had, for a (cries of years, been examples of pa tience ; they had undergone the molt wondrous pur gation, and never murmured. They deferved every confederation that could be paid to them, and he had only to lament that, as often as the events of the year :798 occurred to his mind, he could not fay fo much of thole belonging to another part of the Empire. But, as he hoped thole effetvelcences would fubfide, fo he alto trulied they would hereafter deferre well of the reit of their Fellow citizens. That the religious prejudices of thole men who ferved in the army had fuhfided, he himfelf knew many initances. He knew them go to far as that when the privates went to church, feveral of their officers, who were Catholics, went thither along with them as regularly and as correttly as if they had been educated in the tenets of the ellabliihed religion of the country. Mr. MONTAGUE conlidered the :maitre under contemplation as dangerous and inimical to the peace of the Empire. He was certain that the indul gence of permitting Papias to enter the Army and Navy would lead to their ad million to the civil and high offices of the State ; the confequences thereof, mull, in the event, be fatal to the country. He an ticipated the confufron which it would create in the Navy, where, inflead of having one peaceable and orderly Clergyman of the Eflabliffied Church, there might he colleCted together in the fame (hip a dozen of Popifh Prietts, to divert the crew from their duty, and annoy them with religious priLciples and dif- cipline. [ At this latter remark the Members on the Tmfury Bench and nearly the while Houle. laughed molt heartily. The Hon. Gen tleman was. however proceeding, when Mr. Youx called to order, and complained that it was unfair, not to fay impolite, to prevent his Hon. Friend having a fair hearing. The Houle became calm, and Mr Montague went on.] He Paid, he would exprefs his fentiments as an Eng. Mir Member of Parliament, and not be deterred by either laughs or gettures, whether they proceeded from the Noble Lord (Howick) oppolite to him, or from any other quarter. He charged the Houle to advert to the dreadful occurrences that happened in this City, in the ye•+r 1 780 ; and warned them to be• ware how they attempted like meafures, which might provoke like fcenes, and probably envelope in flames the houfe of that Noble Lord himfelf, in common with the houfes of others who then heard him. Mr. FREEMANTLE defired Gentlemen would withhold their fears of what was contained in the Bill till they fhnuld read it ; as it was, he could affitre them it would not contain one fyllable regarding Ca tholic Clergy, and they might telt perfuaded, that nothing of its contents bore upon the Connitution of the country. Mr. PLOMER was convinced the meafure would be produelive of the hippiell effetfts ; and he truQed that no flight difference of opinion would prevent its palling into a law, and thereby deprive the country of fo great, fo ufeful, and fo effeelive a body of men as the Catholics. _ _ Mr. CORRY apprized the Houfe, that this was a meature of policy, not of religion. It was to pre vent men from furnifhing foreign Rates with that aid which their courage would produce, arid that tare which would mote happily and fortunately Chine up on them in their country's . tide. Mr. HAWKINS BItOWNE was againtl the bill, as he confidered it an inlet to give encouragement to a religion dangerous to civil liberty, and deftrative of the Conllitution of this country. He was fearful it would create alarm through the kingdom, and he cautioned MiniQers accordingly. But if it could be rettridled to officers of the army and navy, without creating fufpicions that it was only the prelude to greater and more ferious innnvations, he could not continently with his clnrcience oppofe it. As this, however, remised to he ken, he &old typal to be convinced that his arehenlions were unfounded, before even in this tape he would content to the meafure. Lord HOWICK did net melt, upon a motion for leave to bring in the Bill, that any fuch difeuf lion would have taken place as had occurred ; but, in confeqnence of what had fallen from tome Gen tlemen, he thought it requifite to fay a few words, not only in explanation, but in jollification of him felf. One Honourable Gentleman had exprelled his fears that the Bill might be produBive of thole fcenes that difgraced London in 1780. But he would a& ' that Gentleman, whether the Catholics canfed thole horrid circumfiances ? or rather he could tell that Honourable Gentleman that thole fcenes arofe from fuch fpeeches as the Honourable Gentleman had jug made, and uttered by a Member in that Houle, , in a way exaElly fimilar. It was them the alarm i originated, and not out of doors. He trolled, if ' h 6 houfe %mild fall a facrifice, that it would not become hi. lot to aecufe the Honourable Gentleman as being the caufe of it. An Honourable and Learned Gentleman alto had Rated that the Bill would have the ea& of a compulfory meafore ; but lie mull be pardoned, if, on this occafion, he doubted that Gentleman's law on the fubjeet. His opirion upon what he confidered a compulfory meafure cn the former occafion, was already before the Public (al luding to an opinion profejlonally given by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman relative to the Polunieert) and the Houle would judge of his opinion on this fubjea, by the erpinionhe publifhed upon that occafion. To Speak his mind freely on the matter, he was inclined to !think that Officers of the Catholic religion in the army were fairing contrary to law.—The Ir ifh AEI, which ordained that they Should ferve only in the Irilh army, is itfelf a nullity, for by the Union that army is merged into one confolidated body, and now called in common with the refi—" The army of the United Kingdom." This Bill would, however, re move all doubt upon the cafe, and he ironed he &mild have leave to bring it in. As to his fn.iling at the' Honourable Gentleman's obfervations, it was quite impoffible to avoid it, for when he talked of a dozen Catholic Priefis creating difcord on board thin, it naturally occurred to him that the Honourable Gen tleman mull fuppofe, when the boatfwain piped all hands, that inßead of performing the difcipline of the fhip, they were all to fall to and join in their Matins. But, as his Honourable Friend had before Rated, fo be now repeated it, that there was not a word in the Bill about either Protefiant or Catholic Clergyman. Leave was then given, and the Bill was brought in, read a fir ft time, and ordered for a fecoad reading this day fennight. POL SUBSIDISS. On the Report being brought tip of the Committee of Ways and Means, Mr.BANKES rote to oppofe that refolution which voted 80,0001. to the King of PrulEa, and to aka to further fubfidies. In doing this he took a retro fpetiive view of the feveral fubfidies we had paid to Foreign Powers fince the war commenced in t 793, and (hewed that they were all illufive,and-the money thrown away. He Aced was the table whether any farther fum was to be advanced in addition to the 80,0001. already given to the King of Prof& ? But being anfwered by Lord Howick, that no more was intended, and that the Treaty entered into mentioned not one word of fubfidy, and that the 80,0001. was advanced merely for the exigency of the moment, to that monarch, to draw the Pruflian army from Silelia, the Hon. Gentleman then fat down. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re peated the words of the Noble Lord, adding, that the ftim ft , idvanced had the defired deft. Lord HOW ICK 'Allied it to be underfiood, how ever, that although no fubficly was mentioned in the Treaty, or even now in agitation, that Minitters were not to be confidered as rellrieting themfelves from conceding to any, if the exigency of aff.iirs required it. The Report was agreed to, and a Bill was ordered to be brought in on the refolution. WESTMINSTER ELECTION. Lord FOLKSTONE moved the Order of the Day for the further confederation of the Petition, com plaining of an undue tampering with the Witneffes, fummoned to give evidence before the Committee, which will be appointed to try the muits of the late Eleaton for Wefiminfler. Mr. SPEAKER, before putting the queflion on the Order of the Day, informed the Houfe, that as the prelfure of public bufinefs this day had prevented the irfual progrefs in private bufinefs, he would come down to.morrow, a•t three o'clock, to facilitate the progrefs of that bufinefs. It was then ordered that Counfel be called in on Mr. Paull's Petition. Mr. SHERIDAN faid, that the forms of the Houle laid down, that a witnefs Ibould not flay in the Houle during the examination of the witneffes. He had fummoned Mr. Paull as a witnefs, but he begged to (late that he had no objedion to his re maining at the bar the whole time of the proceedings. Mr. PLOM I R was then called in, and ordered to pro. ceed. He reprefented to the Houle that, whatever difference of opinion might prevail as to the merits of the evidence offered, no difference could &ft as to the propriety, as to the pork?, of Mr. Paull's mo tives in bringing the matters fuggened to him to trial before the only competent tribunal. Mr. Plomer faid if the. Houfe believed the evidence that had been ex mined at the Bar (a loud laugh), the charge mutt be foppored to be made goad. Mr. Plomer then argued at length as to the credibility of the witneffes, alter nately Rating what had been given in evidence, and commenting upon it till he came to the letter laid to have been fent by Mr. Sheridan to Emanuel HarriA. Here Mr. SHERIDAN interfered, and repre famed that the Ilatement of Counfel was Itronger than what had been aCtually given in evidence. Mr. PLost Lit. on returning to the bar, apologized for any inaccuracies that his with to Pave the time of the Hi ufe may have led him into. After tome fur.' ther interruption► from Mr. Sheridan on the fame ground, the Speaker fuggetted, that tome infirtglions to the Counfel Mould be moved, but Mr. Sheridan declined moving any. Mr. Plorncr, on being again called to the bar, confined himfelf to the recitation of the evidence from the notes taken down, with tome few rtccafi , nal comments. Mr. SHERIDAN protefled that he was never more fur prifed at any thing than at the fpcech which he had jn heard from the Learned Counfel. He had heard tumours that he intended to bare thrown dk , np his brief.—But if he was furpiifed, i,e was n , t alarmed. The Learned Counfel had fail that e (Mr. S.) had an advantage over the Petitioner. Ile denied this, as he had not availed himfelf of the an. lance of counfel. If he had been capable of Ratio,, as proved, what had been only afferted, and that too by witneffes who had been only not commit. ted by the Houfe for fcandalous prevalicati-n—if he had Rated every thing in the evidence that made for him, and none that made againf! him, and had the Dupidity to think that the Houle would believe him, then he might be laid to have the advantage. H e expreffed his high refped for the profeflion, but thought there were limits within which counfel ought to confine theatfelves ; and certainly it would have been much more proper if the counfel, inßead of preffing the matter as he did, had Rood at the bar in fhame and confufion at his being engaged in foch a caule. He perfectly admitted the great refpedabilitr of the Solicitors, Meas. Williams and Brookes, and had heard that Mr. Williams had even thrown up the mule. He wifhed that Mr. Powell might Rand as clear. He wifhed that Mr. Paull and Mr. Powell might have been only dupes in the bufinefs. He would be glad it it fhould appear fo. But when he examined his viitneifes, there would appear, he undertlnod, fuch a fyftem of bribery, corruption, fubornation, and perjury, as had never before been heard of. lie wifhed the Counfel for the Petitioner to hear the evi dence. The Learned Counfel, though he remarked on the part of the l evidence where Drake had Rated, that he had been employed by him (Mr. S.) to get the letter from Harris, had forgot to mention that the witnefs had afterwards Rated, that he bad offered pl. of his own money to get theletter for Mr. P au ll, in order to nfe it againft him (Mr. Sheridan). Hi s own money ! He wifhed it might not turn out to have been the money of other people. He had pity on the poor wretches who had been called to the bar, but wifhed that the charge might not be carried towards a higher quarter. The Counfel too had (Aimed upon the Ratement of the a itnefs, that he law htm(Mr. Sheridan) fign the later, but had forgot to mention his having retracted that affertion. He had adverted to his having defired the attendance of Drake and Wea therhead the next day—he had done fo certainly with a view to carry them to Bow-Rreet. But finding, as Weatherhead had Paid, that they had got into fufpi• ous company, when they law a Bow-Rivet Officer they made off, and he law no more of them till he obferved them on the sa.th of February in a hackney coach with Mr. Paull. He was athamed of his own credulity in having given any credit to what thefe perfons had Paid, but he had called at the Admiralty, and found that Weatherhead had been difmiffed for fcandalous conduit by Captain Trollope, and that his name was marked Run, having prefented forged cer tificates for a Lientenancy. There was a grofs falfehood-in the Petition, where it alledged that the confidetation of the Election Petition Rood for the 14th of February, whereas it had been originally appointed for the t3th of January. Mr. PERCEVAL obferved, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had certainly taken the advantage over the Counfel when he had fpoken of him in the man ner'he had done. There might have been rumours of his intention to throw up his brief ; but when fo much was at Rake with refped to the client who em ployed him, and feveral others, it was not for the Counfel to prejudge the cafe, and if he had heard that he had thrown up his brief, he certainly would not have believed it. It was impoffible to mifunderfland the Connie), when he Paid that thefe charges were proved, for he had diflindly qualified it by referring this to the credit due to the witneffes. There was, therefore i no more grounds for his imputations again!! the Counfel, than for his affertion, that there was a grofs falfehood in the Petition. It Rated, that the confideration of the Election Petition had been poi!. poned from the xeth of February to the 14th of April. Thi s was true—and no intention appeared of denying that it had been in the fira inliance fixed for the 13th of January. Mr. SHERIDAN Paid, that he had a great refpc& for the Connie' : but Rill thought that he ought to have been fomewhat more liberal. If the allegation in the petition was not a grofs falfehood, it was at leall a pitiful prevarication. A long and unintereßing converfation took place with refped to the propriety of examining Frederick Homan, Efq. he being implicated by the allegations of the petition. However, on the motion of Mr. Perceval, it was carried that the allegations again& Mr. Homan were not well grounded ; and he was therefore admitted as a competent winters. . _ EXAMINATION. Witnefs is a native of the county of Weftmeath in Ireland, and a nephew of the Mu" of Killah. He has tome property in Ire land, and was engaged tormerly in the flour bufinefs, which he gave up about twelve months force, when he found it unprofitable, and is not at prefent in any bufinefs, nor of any profeillon. Was not employed by Mr. Sheridan at the late eledtion, but affifted him as a friend. Was prefent 'at the meeting between Mr. Sheridan and Drake at Somerfet Houfe on the 19th. Drake had called oa him that day, and told him, that having returned with Mr. We therhead in a putt chaife from Hampihire, and being to retuni•the next day no take poffeflion of a cottage he had purcha7ed there, he • wilhed much to fee Mr Sheridan that night. Witnefs was to dine with Mr. Sheridan that day, and told Drake to come to Somerfet Place,whither he did come about (even o'clock with Wetherhead. whom he introduced to witnefs as a clergyman. Mr. Ward and witted's, together with Drake and Wetherhead, fat in the parlour of Mr. Slacridan's houfe, and bad fome general converfation. Mt. Sheridan came about eight o'clock from the Houle of Commons, when they had fame general converfation on the fubjedt of a mo don, or notice of a motion, given by Mr. Sheridan that day in the Houle. Drake told Mr. Sheridan that he had jolt returned from Hanapfhire, where he had been hunting with Mr. Cobbett,whota he reprefented as living in a piety; there being no entrance to his honfe but through the (tables. Some time alter Mr Sheridan had returned, he eked who the Gentleman in the corner was? and was anfwered by Drake that he was Mr. Wethuhead, one of his meffinates. Wetherhead was then introduced to Mr. Sheridan ai a clergyman, and on Mr. Sheridan's obferving that he fuppcifed be was chaplain to tome veffel, Drake anfwered no, that it was hi , brother who was the chaplain. Was prefent during the whole or the time that Mr. Sheridan and Drake were together, fat nearer to Mr. Sheridan than Drake, heard all that palled between than, and ' nothing could have palled but what he Inuit have heard, and was pofitive that no mention whatever bad been made of money; that Mr. Sheridan had not offered Drake or Wetherhead any ironer. office, or employment of profit whilft they remained. On their going up hairs, after Drake and Wetherhead had retired, Mr. Sheridan told witnefs that Drake was a liar, and that he was convinced be had not been in Hampibire, nor hunting with Mr. Cobbett, for that Mr. Cobbett w.tuld not keep fuch a mind coin pany,and that this was a l'hifbe lie. The converfation refpec,lng his bunting with Mr. Cobbett commenced before Mr. Sheridan came in. On the 9th of February, winds had been with Har ris, accompanied by Mr. Johnitone, before Mr. Julticc Graham, by &fire of Mr. Sheridan, to have the letter charged in the Pt titian produced to the Magittnite, and the Lvidence of Harris taken upon oath. A requeft had been made on the part of Mr. Sheridan, who was not prefent at the examination, to the Mager ' true, to get the letter from the Jew, and not to return it to him but to apply: his (cal to It, and then to c‘ntmunlzate to Mr. Paull '+ .;