Star. — London, England, 1804-04-26 00:00:00

xiumint 4752 PARLIdMiNT-IRT PROLEEDINGS. HO/TRE OP LORTA. WPDNEDAY, APRIL 25. -,- ' the !rico Linen Maoultittatellill treat Through I Committee tied befog tely after reported, w•r aniseed to be rtawl • third date toottoterote. Senna Privatz NIB were forwardsi in tbdr refrain Rages—• Adjourns:4 HOUSE OF COMMONS. Soon alter the Speaker had taken the Chair, a Mame from the Lords was brought in, &daring that tacit Lordthips had agreed to the hi& Militia °Seers Bill and tho Augmentation withoat any amendment. i• . The Id& PHefta and Dooms DUI wet read in a Cionodetee of the whole Hoare, and agreed -without any anstrodnient. The Report was then reeelvad, aid the Bill ordered to be read $ third • the Meek-ma the CHAUCILLLOIt of the EX Clr= t; k ti a "tend that ther.olnishiseelle the Islll &nesse Bid bey:Opened he Pride, MEM • lt+r. ibxn inbred that tle Adt 43 Gen. tn. *hit+ goes to the tevalatkorndlipa =Tyke seniors abroad, be • trfetred to a Constnittereftlstprink Hdrfa.; His tibial was to ante for leave to bring In a Bill of swain tkr Captains of:wick moved in dist Neorkunithnd Truk this conspelfin flegOktions in. that Ad!, oaths Newfoosnliond Tradk**ltch s 44;111atore willed to prow*, weither was the titled of the BM Doe was it dlredred to any other branch of oar eaennakee y aid to that trade dhoti was not any loch inesownsience faked: , lkierhsrefore hoped, that the Houle would fee the propriety of Innwedlottly gobs/ into a Committee, with a *kw to exempt that trade front the previews/ of the law to which be had referred. , The liloure Went tato the Committee, and kate vhis pier es brio: in the Bill. It was that tnempht tspi reed a &ft and (Mond aml ordered to be referred to a.Committee to-morrow.. , Mr. FOSTERineved forthe produdtkin fewest amounts re lative W the difpocition of..public grants, (or the fuypore of the mt. pences of the.barraci department, and feveral eviler branchee of ebb public fievice in Ireland, flea the Union. After fome difeuf Son, neat of the pawn wire ordered. He a& moved for a copy of the patent appeintisig the Commifftener of tbe Treafury in Ire land—Ordered. . The ConnWitte on the AyWhiny like:ion was pc. pored till Toefday next. . . Mr. WILIWRFORCE pee notice that he would, on Friday Fenniglit, bring forward a motion which had for its obJcil the im mediate Abolition of tbc . Slave Trade. T hejribt Fvettequer DID' Bill W4ll, on account of the Importance of the exteded Dehatethla evening, poltponeel tilt Finlay neat. Mr. Secretary YORKE then moved the order of the day, for the Houk to go into a Committee on the Rill for the Sepettfunt of the Army of Rehire The SPEAKER hivhrg pht the quellion from the Chair. Mr. prrr rote, to Rate the grounds do. which he felt it his duty to oppote the farthicrtmogrefa of the Bill, and Addreffad the Houle in ftilfturme ae follows: In rifint, Sir, to oppore the motion for yOur leaning the Chair, hiss* my intention to occupy the inci sion of the Houle longer than appears to ‘A abro. lately Deftest", and therefore I have no with to enlarge on topics cormeded with the general rubies% Aide - ,e courre of late debates undergone difettlfion. i3efort I proceed to the , plan of *Mcb I have even notice t former day, it is my with to Fa,' nature and complexion of the Bill lett of 'the Right Honourable Gen. to bring under tiny confideration in As far as I am able to underhand • of its adoption would be to relit+. of the benefit of that angesentadon e force, which, in the unanimous %lA.' tons in this Hooky, ought to be the tof attention with his Majefiy's Go would be to relinquith all chance of of future benetit,arifing from a though in many paliiis at view into td, has had the died of procuring, of twelve months, a more confider. Ation of our regular force than could Seen obtained in any other way, at the the cite-unlike:tees in which the men into altivity. It appears to me that i of benefit are given up, without teir room any Cyllem by which the augmentation of the regular army If I underhood the ItAten.cnt of irable Secretary of State below me, meafures, by the adoption of which Uteri flattered themfelves that they tugment the regular difpofable force The firli of there meafures was the ,e voluntary offers of a certain pro riffs Militia to extend their Cervices to The fecund meafure had in view the the Militia of Ireland. The lafl of ceded to the great objeft in view was number of new regiments to be it of that competition which is at itted to be molt fatal ro the fpeedy regular army. On there different ed for the augmennuion of cur dd. is not now my intention to enlarge ; permitted to obferve, that in none of i 'tens does there . feels to be any thing which is at all kulated to be effattual in roasting the consple• :ma of the ()Ned which, without exception, is admit• :cd to be of the 14 eonlequer.ce in the prefent cir cumfiances of the Empire. It is true, that a certain empoTtion of the Irillt Militia have volunteered theit -% iccs to th . country. In this oar, it is doubtful . - _ The;:ntr there is lefs of policy than of national ad -ritage. Delon, the Houfe can admit the policy of cceiving fuck cress, it becomes neccdary to look a aeto ihe degree in which the interchange of the ..c:s ot - the Militia of both counerres, is to be coadoe• td, and i may add whether, in extraordinary circuits. in :es, this interchange ought to be encouraged t It •annot. in reafan, be denied, that fuck an interchange ull depend on circumliances of ipecial emergency. what I maintain is, that the acceptance of the ye r.tary (tiers el' the militia of Ireland at this time, "^' only produaive of all the evils &riling from an J interchange of ferviees, but can be attend cant- of the advantages arifing from loch a are r I , yinating from well confidercd views nib t cral. On the fuLjelt of the augmcnt At ra of lteland, my o2iii.01:11 arc CO: b) any means different. It will not be difpikeeffbrifis Majelly's Minillers, that the offert of ektefided cer vices by a certain proportion of the 'Militia bf' Ire land depends for acceptance in a great Meafare an this fubfequent meafure. It is allowed on all Igands, that Ireland cannot lofe filch a proportion of the mean, of-its defence without 'receiving fomething like ab adequate return. We 'Mull underßand that the augmentation pr.: poled is meant to form the return to which I hare referred. .But will any Gentleman in this Honk' for a moment affirm, that a mere refelution for the augmentation of the Irifh militia will at all conspenfate for the loft of a conft• derable proportion of troops, allowed on all hands to be adequate to the defence of Ireland. combined with the regular military force. In fae, Sir, if Minifiers ad confißently; .the offers of the Irifh Militia can• not be accepted ankle fame return be made to Ire land. By the fylient of augm enting the militia, this return cannot be exped e d a confiderable period, and therefore the one me-aline knot only inconfiftent with• the•other. but utterly itiefficient for any obje& of obtaining s greater difpofable force. ' No Min will go beyond me in assintaiding that the militia are a conftitutimsel, a refpettable. abd a moft ufefol - . forte when kept within proper limits, and applied to thapecific objet of their formation- It mull, how eve, he with every man a quettion of peculiar jea bury to find the militia come in competition with the teen army nnder any eircuraftances, but more pecnharly under the chcumftances in :which the propofed meafures of Minifiers sicced:wily placed that competition. :They admit that there is a octet Pity for the augmentation of the dirpolable force of the country. They fix on I re l an d as t h at part of the empire where that difpolablefori-e is to be more rea-' dily procured, and at the time they are holding this language they are determined that the militia of Ire land (hall be to a confiderable degree entreated. it mull, Sir, appear fingnlar, that alien the deficiency of the quota of the Army of Referve to be farnifhed by Ireland is materially deficient, it thould be pro pofed to augment the militia—a fpecies or force con felledly limited to Cervices, lees applicable to our prefent circumflances. , If new levies are to be made, why are there deficiencies in the Army of Re feree, or why are not the new levies to have the precittleacy ? The tnifchief of -competition is allow ed. The profeffed tea of Minifters is to have a difpofable force, yet with there admillinas, the mili tia of Ireland, allowed On all hands to be limited in' their &tins of fer'eice, are to counteraft,the new re gular levies.fir which; on a former occafinn, fa much merit was claimed. It is admitted that by the mel fare of the Army of kelerve, we ha've obtained a very 'confideiable anigmentation of our difpolabte force. In Ireland it is propofed that the minus hull he augmented. Oa what principle thin is it that the opeXidon of the Referee Bill is not fufipendeid in that country ? Mere Mr. Yorke fignified that a Bill was I brought in lot futpending the Aft in Ireland:] Pitt continuing hts argument, proceeded to faY. if the law is to be preferred in force, on what principle is it, that though there are now deficiences in the Army of Referve for Ireland, to the amount of fix or (even thoufand, the augmentation of the militia is to be preferred to this force ? Will it be pretended that the augmentation of the militia will fo materi ally ecinnibute to the °Nee in view, as the angmen union of the Artny of Referee, from which coolant fupplies for the regtlar dirpufable force of the cons. try may be fairly and reafonably expeeteal? It is really not eafy to afcertain on what ground a force, though not generally difpnfable in the fiat inianee, yet not indifpoted to general fervice, Mould be loft fight of, while a fpecics of force which. by their confiltution, is confined to limited fervice, fbonld be preferred. Mull the fyllem which Minikes had fo much favoured, as calculated to add to the difpofa ble force of the country, be altogether abandoned, becaufe it might not have accomplithcd all that was capered from it in their Carpi= expeftations ? I really cannot confider it in any other view than a IMAM inimical to that meal - are which Mini tiers hold out to our obfervation. On the one hand, if the militia of Ireland is augmented, the levies for the regular army mull in a great men. lure be fufpended. On the other hand, if the les:es for the regular force are to be carried for. ar,i. the propofition for augmenting the trial mili. tia is altogether prepollerons. The language of Mi. niflers is, that toe) , wart to have men at a reduced bounty. But how is it that they carry their obeit into practice ? They do not pretend to deny that t heir fill cibjett is to have men for difprifable pupates, and this they hold folds as the objelt which ought to have precedence of every other confederation. It is rather curious, however, to look at the mode in which they reduce the plan to practice. They with recruits for the regulars in Ireland, and they are dcfirrus of hay. ing m augmentation of the militia in the fame coun try. It is In vain, Sir, to deny that the competition in theft cafes is altogether unequal, and that where it is propofed to raile ten thoufand additional militia in Ireland, the plan of railing a niimlacr of new regi ments is quite imprafticable and impolitic. On every general principle then, I do moll heartily contend, that the fulpenfinn of the Army of Referve Aft is not at all called for on principles of neceflty, of po licy. or utility. In Rating this, I w ill. it to be fairly endetflood, that my opinion is founded on general principles. A great dral of argt.nient will not be nevem to MeV.' that thole who malt sealoully oh. jelled to the Army of Referee ought roe to ag:tc to the motion now before the Houle. If they chjcetted to the Aft in ccmfcquence of the high bound-s taith it encouraged—if they think that the principle of the ballot which it promoted did not proceed sin comb. ;utional principles—if they were ccnvinced that it did not proceed on conditutinnal principles, then, Sir, they (urcly cannot give their atlei.t to the motion new eubasit'ed to our confidetation. If the hill is fo much liable to centime, if it is fo little in cordonarce a-ith the opini•.ns of theft Gentlemen, they cannot raid: be t4::bt.c.l v an d.c fulpenlion of fuels a area- whicr have in the e moll ample dif efcription of the ei the Haste on a sir words on the hich it is the obje ennuis motion tc Committee. As the only 'feet ills all chance of our difpnfable fa inn of all perfon rincipal obfl of ernment. It wen e continuance o afure which, the eded and retarded ithin the (pace o ble augmentation Chaps have been 'me and under thi um was carried in 11 there chances bflituting in thei real objea of the to be obtained. e Right Honour ere were three m is Majefly's/dinif ould he able to au f the country. 1 cceptance of the oruon of the Irifh is country. Thi 9gmentation of el meafures dire& e formation of a lifecl, independent moment admit ecruiting of the r Jeafunespropokd fable force, k is et 1 mutt be pets C . 144 . ..f ? ... S . / ' • _ .: ' f • „ i.i . :lbw- .. s . . t I i ' . 1 ... , .7. '-', '- •• . l ir . 17 • ;I. ‘ ''....' - • ... *. 0 104; . ...... ks . 1 ... L , . i; 4 ". '. • .... -1-: • . ....,, . .• W 4.- • • ..1 , 1 . `.1 1 t • ...\ f ..., • J ....,..........7.....:: ,... , 4- . , 4. 0 . . Y Tore, which', according to their own 'principles, ought to be totally repealed. This is a propolltion which cannot be fairly denied, and, therefore, it is the left neceffary to enlarge on it. But, Sir, i f fyflem of the Amy of Referve, as now coining, can be modi.. fied; if a defcription of perfons not at all likely to 1 eater into the regular army can be brought into li- 1 mited fervice ; if this temporary plan of recruiting can be managed fo as to promote the great end in view without it - lc/eating either national inconvenience or private mifery, there will not, I am Lure, Sir, cu It a doubt that filch a CO= ought to meet with every' degree of fitpport and encouragement. If fuch a fyflem can be brought forward it mull aticall, Sir, be one which the Houle could Lot, continently with their duty, refufe iheir mon ferious confider ition. Though en the prefent occdfinn my nbjeft in riling was to e s• plain the outlines of loch a plan„ I do ndt at all fo much flatter my kW as to fuppofe that it Ira be per- fed, but it is not too much prefumptiim to imagine that I it is a plan not altogether unworthy cf the confideration of farliament.—Before I go on very fhonly to !Facto' the Houfc the nature of the plan, it may not be improper ', merely to advert to th e groun d s on w hi c h t h e fufpenfion of the Army of Referve AEI ought to be confiderea. I The Srft queflion that prefeists itfelf is, whether the I Referve Aa ought to be furpended, or whether it 1 Imight not be modified in fuch a ruiner is to render its application more advantageous? • The fecond querlioo wAs, whether if the idea of fufpending t h e Aft was entertained, this was not too little ; and whether, if the idea of fufpention was at all enter tained, the *Mt ought not to be totally aboliChed t Conceiving thee to be the two great preliminary views of the fubjeS, Lhope I !hall meet with the in dulgence of the Houtz while I hate the outline* of apron nn this fubjelt, the refult of long and careful examination—the aka of digefled and careful corn. parifon of the wants and circumnances of the coun try. Without cow, then, going into any details on the Tubjeft which, if the Bill for which I mean to move is introduced,. I. (hall have ample means of in troducing, it will be fufficicnt for me at prefent to give an outline of the general plan. Allow me then, Sir, to introduce the fulled generally, by laying, that un4cr the prritnt ciecumflances of fociety, under the regent extenfion of commerce,, under all the new openings offered to labour in all its branches, it is not laying too much, to fay that the encouragement to enter on a military life mutt be very materially ditninifked. Looking, then, to the difficulties atten dant en the recruiting of the army, looking to the diffienkies of obtaining men for unlimited terrier, compared with fervice for a ihort petiod on their native tisil, I mutt be allowed to affunie it as a fair fulipof tlon. that a number of men would be induced to accept of offers of limited fervice, who would not lillen to' any idea of military . fervice far life.— With this view their, it will not be denied, Sir, that the tervices of thee who are far from willing to enter snto the - regular army &mild be encou raged for that limited fpeeies of fervice, to which they are by no means difincliaid. The Houk will not fuppofe that lam goi too far, when I affirm, that fuch a mode of ream' . for the regular army in a commercial coantry, t molt fully junified i t by the whole hiflory of human affairs. Every man knows that limited fervice moll, in the firft inflame, he preferred to fervice knowing no limitation of place or time. But while this was allowed, it was not left clear, that if men once entered into the army for a limited period, militar habits were loon contraSed , and thole who in the fink inflance would never have thought of indefinite military fervice, entered into this enlarged engagement with the greatell poffible alacrity. From libuted to permanent military fervice, is therefore what every man, in the lean acquainted with military affairs, could anticipate with out the final left difficulty. But, Sir, I would not even put the quef tint; on this ground. Even independent of any Legiflative interference, independent of the amp tance of any offers of 'bore who originally engaging for limited fervice, afterwards entered into the regular attny, the iloufe, I am Cure, will agree with me in thinking, that there may occur periods of patriotic ardour, when all idea of limited fervice will be loft fight of; that the native courage and hertiifm of the Englifh charafter will difplay itfelf; that Engliflunes will lonk not alone to the fafety, but to the honour, to the dignity, and to the glory of their country.— Under fuch tire= fiances as thefe, it is not prefupsing too fat to fappofe, that voluntary offers of extenfion of fervice will be numerous. If. Sir, we can fuppofe 1 that the national (pint of the people, even unaffill. ed, will produce theft effefts, how much more may its influence be expeited to be, when it is fupported, direted. and encouraged, by judicious regulations ? On theft principles then I obje6 to the acceptance of the offers of the Is ill Militia to extend their offers of fervice to this country, becanfe the, fame Mica may be obtained without any violation of confirm tional principles. That the extenfion of the Cervices of the militia of both countries may be definable under an emergency of peculiar danger, no man can reit fonably deny. But however the zeal and the alacri ty of thole making the offer may be commended, the policy of accepting inlet (till be a ground of grave deliberation with thofe who pretend to guide their public condua by any principle of wifdom or of po licy. 13sf , re the firs ices of the Militia of Ireland can with pr. , priety be accepted, we have to afcertain whether by this meaitire the general lecurity of the whole empire is confulted. But reverting particu. fatly to the augmentation of the bah Militia as an addition to the military force of the empire, I mull be permitted to make a few obfercations. The idea of difparaging the Cervices or importance of the militia eflabliffiment is certainly the fartheft from my con templation. At the fame time. Sir, it has been al. Inwed by its molt stAIOUS ft iced., that in many in flames it ha.. hes n CAI I ,:c1 to an extent inconfillent with the general fir cumnances of the country. With this idea do 1 mon cordially agree, and beg leave at the fame time to add, that in my judgment the Mili tia cf Englaad ought not to exceed Awes. U the [PRICE SILPONCE. number is carried beyond that, then there is dunes • , that the number of °dicers he to alluvium the did e• tent corps will not be fufficient for that purpofe.— The importance of regular refpedlable officers no man will deny, and if the augmentation goes beyond the proportionot °Seers which can be afforded them, ' unquelliooably that augmentation is impolitic. My Rift view, then', Si-, is, that the militia of England _ lhou:d as loon as poffible be reduced to 48,00. If we are to keep up a' confideralilc limited force, all the defcriptions of which it is composed ought to bear Tome proportion." The militia ellablifhment of the'country now amounts to about feventy-two thou rand; and we ought to have had forty thoufand of the Army of Referve in Great Britain. What I would in the firft inflance propofe would be, that the Ihould not exceed forty-eight thoufand, and that from forty the Army of Refcrve fhould be ex tended to fixty-four thoufand men. In this arrange , ment' I (Wald propofe that there fhoeld be an sag mutation to theArrny of Refei v... in England of a+ thoufand, and that four thoufand fhould be the atm ; inent t atiso for Scotland. In propofing this arrange anent, the Houfe will underhand that I do not at all allude to any fudden and abrupt rtirmantling of the militia. It is equally far from my with tointerfere with their progrers in dilcipline. All that I propote is, that the vacancies in the militia, as they foFceffively occur. Sall not be filled up for that (pecks of the public force ; and one important advantage of this arrange ment would be, that competition to a material de • gree would be deftroyed. By this arrangement. the number of perfons liable to the Army of Referve would be enlarged, and it would not require much labour to (hew that, by this enlargement. a material advantage would be gained. I may merely call the attention of the Houfe to the esperience of heft year. If out of thirty•reven thoufand railed by the Army of Referve At, upwards of nine thoufar,d, according to the returns on the table, and within confiderably lets than twelve month', volunteered into the regular army, I am tartly not prefonsing too much in fop. poling that a fassilar caufe would be accompanied with a fimilar retch. In propofing to the Houle the per manent eltabliOrment of the Army of Referve, though certainly on a very modified fyflem. I ant fenfible that objellions may be readily Ranted agaioß the propofi lion. But, Sir, let it be remembered. that the times in which we live are not ordinary times. When we are called to encounter extraordinary and unprece dented dangers, we mull lay our account with bib. mining to extraordinary and unprecedented dangers. If we are called on to undergo great facrtfices, ere' mull bear in mind the interefling objets which thefe objets may enable as to defend and to (team. I need sot remind the Hook that we are come to a new era in the hiftory of cations ; that we ,are called tra ffruft• gle foy the deßiny. ant •of this country slow, but of the civilised world. We mull remember that it is not for ottriclves alone that we fubmit to tmexampled privations. We have for ourfelves the great duty of Pelf-prefervation to perform, but the duty of the peo ple of England now is of a nobler and higher order. We are in the fire place to provide for our fecurity againft an enemy whore malignity to this countq knows no bounds. But this is not to clots the views or the efforts of our exertion in fo facred a eaufe.— Amid the wreck and the misery of nations our great objet was that which we could look to with jug exal tation, that we bad continued fisperior to all that ambition or that defpotifm could effett • and our Rill higher exultation ought to be, that we ( hould provide not only for our own fafety, but hold out a profpedt to nations now balding under the iron yoke of tyran ny, what the exertion of a free people could effedt ; and that at leaft in this corner of the world the name of Liberty was fill revered, cherifhed, and fandified. Viewing, then, the preffure to which the meafure I propofe may give rife, I contend there are fair confi derations. What is to be eonfidered then is, that what is unneceffary &all be removed—what is oppreffive (tall he mitigated. On thefe prisciples my whole plan proceeds. Mitigated as it may (*.Rill the pref. lure mull be revere. Bat let it be remembered, that the objet is not only to repel from our chores a den. ger that threatens our esiflence as an independent nation, but to reflore tc Europe the chance of regain ing all that is MO ft dignified in the condition and in the relations of eiviliced nations. To any queflion of prefure, I conceive then that is a moll fatisfac tory answer to every refleding mind. Bat having laid fo much on the fobjeft of the preffure attendant on the plan I mean to propofe, 1 (hall now m-otion generally the number which appears to me to be nc eeffary to complete the eltahlifltment, as the founda tion of a regular, pertnaneut, military eftabliftsmerst. —I (hall go on the fuppofition that fixty or feventy thoufand men fhould be kept up every year, accord. ing to the proportion of the different counties. regu lated on the principles of the Ballot for the Must Ellabliffiment. In the detail of the fyftem there molt of courfe be a great deal of modification; but I would beg leave to Rate generally, that, in my opinion, the regular army would receive an addition of fourteen or fifteen thoefand men annually by vo luntary offers. In the firli inttance you would be lure to procure a large number of men who could not be otherwife obtained, and the fame men would be induced to enter the army on the general princi ples of human nature, founded on I,ahit and reperi ence. The ordinary recruiting of the army would not be impeded or interrupted. All the means of a defenfive and offenfive fyitem would be united. By following the fyllem we fhould not or.ly be fccure at home, but be provided with the means of holding et: t hopes for the reftoration of States now linking under the molt odious tyranny. It has often occurred to me, Sir, that the indiferiminare manner in which Volunteering from the Army of kef,rve has hither to been allowed, is highly ruinoui to the belt ihterefts of the Army. By the plan which I with to pi,,p,:te, a certain degree of (h)pe and confidency would be given even to the V.Adr.teering from the Army of Referve into the Regclar At my. What I would in the tuft inftance fuggeß would b:, that the quits, THURSDAY; APRIL 26, 180-Z. deo re. di-