Star. — London, England, 1807-08-14 00:00:00

feditian or drilayal, y. , he county of Kilkenny, alfo, the ;rand Jory of the comity, in a folemn and authentic dacumear, took notice of the happy {late of that enmity, of the i!armenv which exifled Setween the Prateltants and the Cathelies, - and ex preffec' their with thar this forpairrefs Ana harmony Should be ititl ta•ther inereafed, Ar a full participa tio; of rite Catholiee, in all the hleffings of the Com flirntion. 'Mete are ell.:` arlitedly molt relpeaa!le and v. - eighty a uthorities, that the Rate of Ireland is not lurch A , to require meatures of tormlial rigour and f e ve•ity. Or the other hand, we have an. au tharity whom no man refpeels ni to highly than I do, I mean the Right Hon-err:4lde Reprefentarive of Dahlin (Mr. Grattan.) I admire his great talent!, his independence and his integri y ; and, as an Irifh man, although I have priocieally !elided in this cotintrv, I feel a debt of gratitude to him for his great exertions in f rmer times for the independence and heppinefs of Ireland. So highly do I reipeet hie private authurity, that I cannot help balancing it aeaintl all thole heat authorities on the other fide, and feel confide rabic doubt and hefitation how I Ihauld determine in my own mind, when thofe fo. lento and deliberate documents which I have al luded to, are contralled with his great authority.— When there is this cortradiglion among the atithori. tica, it appears to me that it is a great and, I will fay; imperioas y, for Parliament to take this im portan• firlijed into its mall fictions confiderati Ler it not he Paid that we fly from the confider atian of the topic, and legiflate merely from hearfay ! Let it not he laid that we are either prevented by . ircl4-nee, or by a timid apprehention of danger, from fairly cnnfidering the grounds of thole extranr dinars, rocafares which have been reforted to with refoed to Ireland! As to the charge of nfing inflammatory language, with a view to produce - irritation and difcontent in Ireland, I feel that it is a charge which will not at tech to me. I do not think it prefumptuous fir me to fav, that nn man can he More free than myfelf from the fitfpici , o of wilhing to air np {edition, mu tiny. 'r Oifafferlior, in any par. of the empire.-- ( • cud cries of ',car kar !) There is no man living that can fee with more deteGation than I do, theft mifetable traitors (if any fuch do exift in Ireland) who would surrender the Canflitotion and liberties • of their country to a foreign tyrant. I do not deny , that Come filch wretches may tall in Ireland, but I am convinced that their number is very (Mall. When I look at all :he apperarees, I cannot helittee there is anv danger of a general and alarming fpirit of in•. furreairm in that cesintry. On the contrary, if I were ta furp-le a foreigner, completely a Granger to our prejudices, had • turned his attention to the af fairs of this empire ' and of Ireland in particular : I thiek that filch foreigner would rather fay, " I congratulate the Government of this country on the loyally of the people of Ireland," and he-would add, I judge of this Ina At) , from four reafans. la. When the Duke of Bedford was rafhly called upon by fame ill judging men to proclaim a particular county he refufed to do In, and found that the operatian of the ordinary laws of the country was abundantly lefEcient to re- Rote and preferve its tranquiliity. The second gr and upon which I infer its loyalty, is from the indifpof . oion which it (hews to tumult. Even when you rejected the Catholic Bill(which might naturally be fuppofed to be a ground of irritation) they did trot Phew the leatt difpofition to riot. Even when you lent over all the feeds of tint wrapped tip in your proclamati.oe to diffolve the Parliament, 11111 the people of It eland (hewedno tendency to infirm:E . :iota' Such foreigner might go on and fay, In the third place, I find, from what has palled in Kilkenny and Tipperary, that tilde counties which were reprelem ted as dilturbed, are in the molt profound peace and harmony ' and in the fourth place, when 1 lee you withdraw fo large a portion of your army from Ire land, when I fee you take away the whole German Legion, which appeared to be a force peculiarly cal culated to watch and put down infurre6lian, I cast not conceive that you can feel any ferious alatm on account of the (late of Ireland.' Such mutt be the 'opinion of any impartial foreigner—filch mull be the idea of every men who would form his judgment ftom falls, and not from hearfay, or the private au thority r f I ilwuid now- with to hear front Iris Majelty's wtat kind of anfweir they could give to fuch a foreigner ? They would peritaps fay, as to your first the, Duke of Bedford was wrong in not ufing thole extraordinary powers, and in content ing himielt with the powers rut the law. As to there being no riots in Iceland, they would fay that was all accident. 'Phey would fay, that Judge Fox, in the Grand Jury cf Kilkenny, did not Icts.oe the !tate of the counties of Tipperary and Kilkenny as well as they did ; but that, as to the fourth point, they did not withdraw the troops from Ireland without having a moll excellent expedient to furaly tire abfence of them. It they had marched cut an army, they in tended, at the fame time, to march in an Aft of Parliament, If they had withdrawn a legion, ihey h ad introduced a law—(a louL-b).—This expedient would, to- he lure, found fomewhat lirange in the ears of a foreigner ; he would not readily underaand that Ireland could be as well garriioned by Ath of Parliament as by an army. It we are now to argue the matter nn feelings, I will all: the Hcufe, why is it that they boall that they intend to make the people of England an armed people as far as it is p whet: at the fame time they are determined to tnake the people of Ireland any thing but an ar med people? If yon per till in dilarming the pe. pie, and that craiTery lacald ever be invaded, I have (lly two r i nellices to ere you : When you have taken from the Irifh people their arms, what are they to fight with ? When you hove takea away their con flitutton, what are they to Carla far 44 But I am told by f: m of thefe high authorities, that there is certaitify a Frarech faaion exillieg in Ireland. I all:, when was there not a French faction in that country ? Since the detys of )peen Elizabeth, this country has put;lied arch a vile and narrow po licy toward,: Ireland, that naturally drove many of the high ipirited youths of that country, uho were con v e cted aid) ale Catholic faith, to Peek for an afy taro in Fiance, Irmo „which they regularly correfe ponder.; will. tacit ieads in Ireland. This was the c .mre that roodecad a French fa4tion in Ireland, and art lrLrlt fanlicp la France. Before the ccnceffiont which were made in tee coerfe of the prefent reign, treatment of Ireland was work than the treat. merit of any country which ever had been conquered and oppreifed by the vilelt of tyrant , . It is erne . that there were many fliportaelt ce,nceffinns during' the pi efent reign. It is alto true, that there is a 'mode of conteering benefits and boons that made the obligation he little felt, and hardly excited gratitude. There appeared to he an extraordinary vanity in the modes that had been retorted to for oppialling Ire lane. Sometimes it was done by attacking the rich, f metimes by grinding and fcnurging the poor, and t other times by (inking at the purfuits of commer cial men. With all this variety of oppreffion, fome pet,' le affected to confider it wonderful that the Irifb had been a difcontented people. This reminds me of a Rory I have heard, where an frith drummer was one of the principal chareeters. While he was flogging a foldier, according to the fentence of a. ; couit martial, the poor fellow, writhing with pain, intreated him to change his mode of lathing him. Sometimes be called to him to Arike a little higher, and lometimes a little lower. The drummer endea voured to accommodate him as far as it was in his power ; but finding it to no purpofe, at tall cried out, " Upon my cnnicience, you are a difcontented fellow ; whether 1 tirike high or low, there is no loch thing as pleating you."—(a loud laugh). This is precifely the cafe with refpe& to Ireland. Not. withflanding the infinite variety of oppreffion exer cifed againft them, these are Rill a number of them who are fu unteafonable as to be difcontented. " If I am then afked, am I fo fore of the loyalty of the people of Ireland, as to fay that no precaution is neceffary ? I will anfwer that the precaution that I would take is this : I fhould with the King's army to he kept on the moR complete footing, as a guard of honour to the conflitution, the laws, and liber ties, of Ireland. At times like the prefent, I would not title the exiffence of Ireland, or of the empire by being unprepared ; but the preparation I would with for, is an army, and not fevere laws. I cannot fay that I would truff the defence of Ireland altogether to the fpirit of its inhabitants, becaufe no man can poflibly know to what extent the fpirit of difconteet may have prevailed. No man can fay or know to what might be the feelings of a confiderable portion I o f the population, if an enemy landed in force ; and therefore, although I fee no ground for great dif ' truff, I fee abundant ground for the precaution of having a large military force in that country. Your fevere laws may teach peaple the cunning to be filent, but there can be nothing In truly overawing as a great military force, inch as would detiroy all hopes of fuccefsful infurreetion, and even damp the hopes which the partizans of the French would otherwife feel, in the event of invallon. A large army would be the bell fecutity ttgainft any general infurreetion ; and as to partial and fudden rifingr, or tumults, the Confiitntion is fufliciently powerful to fupprefs them. Mar ial law is, under certain circurntlances, a con flitutional When martial law is, however, proclaimed in its proper Rape, it is well watched by the vigilance of thole who are flibmitted to it ; the neceffity of it muff be apparent ; and thole who proclaim it, at under a moll ferious refponfibility. This meafure, however, is infinitely worfe than mar tial law, becaufe it comes clifguifed and Reed from refponfibility in thole who were to exercife it. It was martial law " in mefeitterade," that had not the holdnefs to avow itfelf. It was martial law free from tefpontibility, and extended for a length of time to ourfelves, that were in perfect peace. " it has been always the fenfe and praftice of the Conffitution of this Country, that the people thoold be armed to meet anvalanger which threatened them. Experience and the hifiory of all nations, but parti cularly of the Englith nation, (hew that an armed people are, among themfelves, full as peaceable, if not More le, than a people difarmed and driven to defpair. In the ancient times of our hiffory, what ever internal difcontents and feuds might exit}, it was Bever fuppofed unfafe on that account to iffue Corn millions of Array, and call the greater part of the population of the country nut in arms. Se far from apprehending any danger from fuch a meafure, it was fometimes even reckoned good policy, and calling the Englith nation out in arms againß a foreign enemy has often bees found the beff way of appealing do meffic difcontents. The ancient Kings of England never thought there was any danger, nor never fOund any, from calling the nation to arms, whatever private difcontents might exiff. Where then was the necef fity of treating Ireland in a manner fo very different from that in which England had always been treated ? I will now put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), whether he can ima• gine or conceive any pntlible fituation is which he would venture to propofe for this country the fame measures which have been now eneifled for Ireland There have been times when this country has been in greater danger, and when much more difaffeelion prevailed in it ; and yet no Minifier had ever the boldnefs to propofe for England meafures any thing at all fimilar to thofe which have been fo long aaed on in Ireland, and which have now been re enacted. The difaffe&iOn and the danger in this country has been much greater than is pretended now to exit in Ireland. When the Pretender was alive, and there were millions of Jacobites in the country, and before their hopes were cut down in the year 174.5, no Englith Minifler ventured to propofe fuch meafures as have been adopted for Ireland, al though, from the difference of the authorities, there feems confiderable doubt whether there is any con fidcrable or alarming difaffeetion now in Ireland. Did any Englilh Miniller ever think of propefing a law, that Engli:hmen were not to be out of their beds after fun f_r, and all the ref of that catalogue of feverities which were now enacted againft Ireland ? It no p: ovoea lion ever did or could induce an Englith Miniffer to propofe loch laws for England, why fhould they be enaeled againft Ireland ? But it is laid that this is only a fu - pe.ntion of the Con ttitution in Irelield for three pears. I do not like this mode of giving leafes to the Crown of the Conflitutien and the liber ties of the country. Leafes of this fort are too apt to be renewed, and in the prefent cafe the Crown has had the leafs 14 years, and it has been renewed for tirce years longer. What will be the end of this? will t'e he ever reamed to Ireland ? I fear that a people that fo geietly reigns its liberties to the Crown for a tinte, iil never regain them. The au thority of the R ielit Hon. Gentlemen (Mr. Grattan) was every thing with Minificts, when they wanted to lay fome colour: . )1e foundation for their Bill ; but when the fame 'Might Hon. Gentleman contended, with Ateanfwcrab 1: arguments, for thortening the duration niche Bill, then as his authority did not fait their purpofe, it went for nothing. As to the anus that are to be Idled under this Bill, there is, to be lure, a receipt to be given by the feizing juflice, and a prontilc to refic,re them at the end of the three years, but I flinuld wills to fee the receipt which the talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could produce, that would anfwer as a receipt for the Conllitution of a free countty, depofited in the hands of Ivliniflers for three years, and to be by them reftored at the end of three years frefh and unimpaired. " If it were afked, what refource would the people have, if Miniflers thould not reltore the null ? Soule would aalwet, that the only appeal of a people in. jurcd and outraged was to arms. This appeal was, however, to be cut off, as they were not to be allowed ' arms to try the quart el. It is impnffible but that the Irifh mutt 'member all the fine promifes which were I made at the Union, not one of which have been rea lized. As to that freedom of Conflitution and equal rights, which Ireland was promifed at that time, it puts me in mind of the prefents which are fometimes wade to a child, and which the mama promifes to take care of, for fear the child would make a bad ufe of them. Ireland had been jnoll egregionfly duped and trifled with. There has not been a fingle at done to carry into effect the promifes of the Union. I (hall read you an extract from one of the pamphlets written at that time : If we were to be one people, the preponderance of the Proteflants throughout the i Empire would be fu great, that there could be no longer any jealoufy between the two religions, or any pretext for curbing and refiraining the Roman Catho. lies of Ireland.' This pamphlet is not from any mean authority : it is the produdion of no his a man than. Dodor Duigenan (a loud and general laugh.) Thefe were the promifes held out by loch men as Dr. Duigenan and Lord Redefdale, in conjunction with Mr. Pitt, and others of that Adminitlration, who are alto Members of the . Relent Cabinet. The Secretary for Fereign Affaire (Mr. Canning) and the Noble Lord (Lord Caftlereagh) are emphatically pledged to the Catholics of Ireland, and they had a right to exped that they would be their friends when ever they fhould come into power. When they found their expedations thus crufhed, their hopes deferred and deceived, it was natural to fuppc.fe there would be fome difcontent. I have no hefitation in allowing, that many who have oppofed their claims in this Honfe, have acted from the molt confcientious feel ings ; bur I will afk, what mull the Irifh think of thole whom they v.nlidered as bound by a pledge and who have abandoned it ? " I cannot blame thole perfons from acquiefcing in the confcientious fcruples of the King ; I knew there was a pretty general union of fentiment in this crun• try upon the occafion, -and I gave the late Admini- Itration more credit for withdrawing the Bill than I did for bringing it forward. ( Hear ! hear ! from the Minillerial Rendes ) But, when I allow that thofe Members of the Cabinet were right in acquiefcing with his Majefiy's fcruples, how could they elcape his fevereft difpleafure and indignation,if they fhnuld join in railing the cry of " No Pcspery !" when, from the pledges they had given, it mutt be well known that they would have wi(hed the meafirre to pals. I hope that thofe who were fo pledged, did feparate them felves in the Cabinet from the perfons who let up that hideous yell, and (hewed that they were not difpofed to throw new obflacles in the way of the Catholics. I certainly do not confider that the Bill which was brought in, was of that importance which appeared to belong to it by thofe who brought it in. I think that in their meafures, for the relief of Ireland, they began tit the wrong end, and that if we with to make Ireland contented and happy, we fhould link to the cottage and the potato? gar den, rather than to the manfion and the park. Any attempt to improve the condition of Ireland, that does not begin with the lower order, appears to me like dretiing out a fhip with gaudy flags, when (he has ten feet water in the hold ; or putting a laced hat on a man who has no [hoes. The Hate of the lower orders of the people in Ireland has been mech mifreprefented in this country. Many fuppofe that they arc incorrigibly idle, and naturally In turbulent and diforderly, that it is impoflible to make them comfortable or happy. Thole who think fo know little, and have read little of the Elate of the Irdb Peafantry. Among the pamphlets written on the fithjeet, that written by Mr. Bell would afford much ufeful informati at. If we look at the bids labourers in this country, we will lied a very different charac ter. Many of them thew conliderable entet prize when they come to this country for bread, and deferve praife when they return to (hare it with 'their families —Almok all the hard work in this Metropolis is, done by bititmen, and the watchmen and patroles, to whom the fecurity of the city is committed at night are almctt exclittlyely of that country. Will it then be laid that thofe who in this country (hew themfelves to be barely, rohlift, indultrious, and faithful, have none of thole qualities when they are in their own cotintr) ? If they do not (hew the fame qualities there, it is from profs tnifmanagcment on the part of their rulers. It now appears almoft a hacknied topic to fay, that this is a moll critical and momentous period —I am really lick of your Continental Allies, your magnanimous Emperor Alexander, and ail the reft of them. I have read in a Paper of this day, that this magnanimous Emperor boatied of returning trium phant to his capital, with his dominions increafed.— i3ut how were they increafed ? From the plunder and fpoil of his conquered Ally, the King of Pruflia. If, inttead of taking away any thing front him, he had g iven him fomething in con fi deratkn loffes, then I would have laid that was fomething like mag nanimity. When I look at the Map of Europe, • where Mr. Burke once thought he law a blank— which once was France—l can now fee nothing but France. If I look to the Emit Indies, I fee an Em• Aire badly managed ; if I look to the W e'o Indies, I fee the planters and merchants in a gate of the greateft &fir& (Lam glad to find that the Hoare have refolved to take their cafe into contideration next SeQion). When I look to Arterica, I fee a molt dilagreeable profpeet, although I have no hetitation in laying, that we mull never give up 01o:it rights which have made us a great maritime nation. When I look to Ireland, I fee that our Statute Boak points it out as a country where kticus intinreetion is to be apprehended. After having Peen tunic };loamy prulptels in every direeliun, what ccntelation do I find in turning my eyes to the fituation of our own Government, and to what pages within Ode walls? *bile Bonaparte is inakirg i!tn..tj 11%31.11101e: Europe, 1 fee nothing here but petty b'cketin gs an a different p arty i e e ms military s anlpi auxin, :11 cproemvpaarirCiarotniono.r theirrh they had a wager depending, which of them w oo s , the greateft number of men in a given One party lays, my plan is better than yours ; ! L e in p h p l e i a r e l s t f , r a y y y s o: i u l iyriodjui bw fh d o i r e a p s ti g tuteihsi g u ilty while ;t e a l jib;l ; o i t a l l e r nd e f e o m w t y l e i e s fi c quering kingdoms, and threatening the glory, the honour, the independence, and the very exiflencenf. the country. See how Bonaparte has employed his time, while we confume ours in trifling wranglec!...„ He has furrnunded his empire, not merely with lo c h • an iron barrier as the vanity and ambi ion of Louis XIV. afpired to : he has furrounded it with empires and kingdoms of his own.creation. He has bound the Sovereigns of thefe countries to him by benefits, and by the ties of obligation. Their gratitude trill ferve as. hoflages, and their fears will beTtiffident pledges of their fidelity. The Paitfadocs wh ch fur round the ramparts of his Thr...ne, are c. mpnied of the Sceptre and Crown of the 111,:natchs he has made. States of his own creatien are tl e lilartello Towers which arc to defend his Empire, and Sovereigns are his fentinels. What Ally' now remains for this country, and what is the mca lure which I propofe ? I propcfe ah affeftionate alli ance with Ireland: I call upon you to fublidize Ireland ; not with money, which your Cm - dinental • Allies have been always roady to take from you 1 without performing their fervice, but by acts of Mice: Justice is all that Ireland afks for i o lp r ,n lo t n h lco e for at your hands. If ye;(1 are prepa re d t o do juflice 1 to' Ireland, you will an ally more f a i t hf u l and more important than any y en h av e Intl Continent. 1 allow that the peel - cm times are times of danger, but true manly fpirit does not refife to look at danger. We mull examine it, know what it i is, and weigh it well, and then be prepared with dauotlefs hearts to meet it. (Lout/ crier of hear ! bear!) ilf we aft as we- ought to do, althou g h t h e country fhould be invaded, I rely on fuccefs under PROVI• DCNCE ; but if we fhApld fail, and any hifiorian be j allowed by the tyrar t to record the fat e o f t h e . E m-1 pire, it would be laid of us that we were a nation faithful, not only to our allies, but to the great prin ciples of liberty ; that thole two fmall Minds lot nut' a nation which was the altar and.the Taft afylum . r f f. eedom upon earth;'andlltat when we contended for it, we fought with 'aft thit . h;ly zeal that lhould. fpire bravemen; in pi eirenlingt?)e violation of luck a fanetuary." He then concluded by moving ir Thai the Hoare wilt immediately on meeting 4 the enruing Seffion of Parliament, proceed' to , take into their . inolt and folemn confideration, the State- and Condi:ion 4 Irelclat, in the anxious hope, that fuck !matures and. remedies niasrbe lately adopted in regard to the dircontents all.r.gcd to cilia in -t*, country, as may render unneceffary the cohtinuance of thole pro. %Mons which the Legiflature of the Unlqd Kingdom lta, deemed, it ! xpedient reludantly to adopt at thetiotent the prefent S t int :H I and the permaneuce of whicl) would be a viol.stion of th e t o" o f the people of Ireland, and a fut;verfion of the fpirit and pradlice of our free Conftitutien." Ttrs CHANCELLOR of 'the EXCHEQUER. Paid, it was not his intention to follow the light Honourable Gentleman through the var.iou s p arts o f his fpeecb; but there were - one or two topies,on which he could not forbear, to mike Imre obferra tions. He particularly thought. it neceffary to inf'ain the Houle, that the Right Honourable Gentleman had made a very gleat miaake in that part of his Itatement, in which he faid that Government had, in the prefent fituatinn of the country, drawn nut of it a very large military *force, and, in lieu thereof, had garrifoned Ireland by two Alis of Parliament. He allowed that a confiderable body of troops had been withdralen from Ireland ; but, at the fame time there was a very flrong force left in that country—a force fully fufficient and adequate to its military de. fence, which had, in fall, been reduced in a very in._ ennliAerable degree ; for by varying the difpolition o f troop., and where they take from one quarter lop ' plying their places from another, that was eafily guarded againft. In fact, there were now above so,ooo men in rank and file in Ireland, and the Right Honourable Gentleman would Ice, that not withftanding it had been thought neceffary to. fend from thence a very large body of men, yet the miG rary defence of the country h a d not been negteeted by thofe who formed the prefent Adminiaration lie thought it neceffary thus early to correct this millake, left an idea Ihould be entertained that Mi. niaers had for a moment been regardlefs of the pro. per defence and fecurity of the country againft all atTailants. He then proceeded to advert to the paint which the Right Honourable Gentleman had in view, in bringing forward 11;e refolution which bad jun been read from the chair; and he could not, he laid, but be fomewhat furprited, that the Right Honour. able Gentleman thould, on that night, make it the foundation of arguments ttgainft certain meatirres that had palled that Houle, when, in point of propriety' and of fairnefs, he aught to have opPored thole mea• lures during the time they were in their progrefs through the Houle. It appeared to him, ahn, to he tomewhat furprifing, that the Right Honourable Gentler»an fhould urge Inch a rguments as h e had jut: made vie of, by Way of appealing the lettings of the people of it eland ; and when he flatted that the pcorle who could fubmie to fuch•rneafiiiis, were, in his opinion, prepay ing to. make a furre:nder of their liberties for ever, he thooght Ilfat - Was not a proper language to be uriel.at the prefent moment. The Houle upon the fallen and fairen invtiiieition . of the subject, and atter it had been warmly 2...!na;:ed in.the vat ions thges ofq/?. two Bills, had thou:tin proper to pals then reaca t aws; and4re c ;old h.r,rdWPlPP"ie that in fa thort a•sitne•they would inde - ces to alter their condtia,' ark! . proceed to a candenanation of what they 1);:d pre.- tOufly done, admiiiing a rein lution whicla vvent. (tiredly againtt thole v,...ry He thought it indeed an extravagant expedation in the Right Il o n oloa bl e Gentlema n th forport, that the flunfe c , ;uld fo far be led aiti.ay be• tt:c extent and rot his a . g,ument,,'as riot. to perceive the in continency with which they molt ad, if they adopted the refolution now fubmitted 4o 'their carfideiation. He was well a(Tured, he Paid, Thai the would always be read to enter warmly and zealobily ore any meafure that might be thought likely. to be be. neticial to Ireland, let it come from either the Right :Honourable Gentleman himfelf, or front whatever other quarter it /tight. • There was no neeetlity, therefore, for the Houle to pledge itfell to that area by any previous refolution. He was certain in his ow n mind, whatever might have been at nay num