Star. — London, England, 1819-04-24 00:00:00

. -. . . . . . . -- - VASE increase of paupers. The Hon.' Member then Ireland, and looked- around. nine, W . see how tho,Cleit. 'went into a detailed account of the effects produced deltic!). :of that country liked k--(Laketer). .lie by the population belonging to the mines alluded to.. found, hnwever,'that he'wis mistaken; and therefore In several parishes the landed proprietors were be- ' linhoped, that whentheHonourableMoVer proposed come- impoverished by the extraordinary augmen- to, exempt iron males, be7wouici also exempt copper tation-cit paupers belonging to. the mines. lifthe mines. If they weritinto a Committee on the Bill, North 'Riding of Yorkshire, the landed proprietors the Worthy Aiderinan said that he would oppose had*tiffered to an incredible amount. In the year several principles of it, which appeared to him ex -1716; Some ingenious gentlemen entered into the ceedingly injurious to proprietors or speculators in mining concern, telieving that they would not only mines. He-was not astonished that those who were make rapid fortunes, but were not liable to the poor 'net interested in lead mines, should not object to the rates. They were proceeded against, and appealed Bill. It might certainly be congenial to those' who to the 'Quarter Sessions. The Quarter Sessions• de- were deeply interested in landed property ; but he tided against them, and found them liable to poor hoped that Gentlemen would also have some spy', rates. Yrorti the .Quarter Sessions they appealed to pathy for those who bad other interests in view. • the Court of King's Bench. That Court, in epposi- Sir JAMES GRAHAM objected to the Bill, as a tiontothe Quarter Sessions, decided that they were partial measure. It was adapted for general pur not, as 'speculatorior proprietors of mines, liable to poses, when,: as had beeri properly observed, it ought poor rates. Since that decision the • proprietors al.. to have been confiped to local objects. With regard laded to had -.remained undisthrbed, while the dis- to property or speculation in lead mines, nothing L'essestof the districts to which their mines belonged was more precarious—far more precarious than pro.: had become.gseat, and in some instances • alarming. petty on land. The Honourable Mover (Mr. Morrit) The Hon. Member did not mean to speak of that cit.. had yawned much about the number of Petitions cisionwidt any want of respect. 'He durst venture which might be expected. The House had as yet to say, that the toUrt of King's Bench had decided found only three or four Petitions of the nature which with as much eificacy as philosophy eii'the occasion. he had described. To put the question at once to hut still: he : 011a• not* help. t*nplainiug .that - the rest, the Honourable Baronet*concluded 'by moving landed:interest had thus been exposed , to a vast dete- an Amendment—" That the Bill be read this day rioration of property by thejauperiam of miners.— six months." It had been argued, that Wilie raw 'material was Lord MILTON strenuously sapported the-Bill. taken away to bet mariqf , ' *fed: elsewhere, the spe- His Lordship was convinced of its salutary and ne c.idators or proprietors. lines were not by any cessary operations. The Northern parts of Yorkshire fair inference liable to logr.r A tes. But other Gen• were in great distress, in consequence of the opera tlemen alleged, that the.m.-NOle mines of the kingdom tions of the mines. His Lordship had no doubt but 1% ..re liable to pour rates,: 4,44.etefore ought to pay that many Petitions would soon appear in vindica tl.eir proportion , of. Pagish;Alies.' :Eiesides the Nor. tion of the principle's of the Bill, from Cornwall as there Districts, the Hoii.Xeliffsi.i.belleved that there well as Yorkshire. With regard to exempting the would be petitions from ill, Parts of Cornwall, and iron mines, his Lord s hip would oppo s e an y suc h other counties infaeOur otlielOiled interest, pray- proposition. Although he had property in iron mines, ing that the pro,sietors of itiniti'inighs be obliged to he was persuaded that they ought to be rated, and pay their. quota or pari4h rates, so as to defray the .he would cheerfully give his consent. 'This Bill, in c.;pense incurred by the vast pauperism of persons stead of encouraging the demo ra li ze d s l s t e r n , as h a d be:ongiag to the various mines. In one parish there been alleged, would operate directly contrary, and uas an increase of 1400 paupers during the last 3 - ear, prevent the partial administration of justice: With four-fifths of which were snipers., The Bill now pro- out rating these - mines, the Country Gentlemen would posed a second reading. for was - ly the same as be ruined!), ' With( - these tg near.. that which had -bees; submitted .to 'the House before the last dissolution of Parliament. All that he now wanted was to allow it to go into a Committee, by whom it might be so amended as to be rendered as perfect as possible. Tlse Select Committee on the Poor Laws, who had reported from their long and laborious research, agree to the principle of the present Bill. There were certain exemptions which he Meant to propose in favour of particular concerns in lead mines, also in favour of iron mines. He would likewise propose that the mines of Ireland should be included in, the operations of the bill After' several other observations, in which he lamented the 'deMoralized state of those who had sunk into pau -perism,the.Hon. Member concluded by moving that tht . Bill be slow roa4 a second time. ColonelWOOD eondemnedthe sweeping nature of the Bill now proposed.. It would not only affect lead mines, but every other kind of mines in the country, and all under the spetious pretext of aiding the landed interest, who were %laid to be greatly distressed by the speculators in vines. But were-the Honourable Member resolved : ppm thus' taxing mines, he ought by no meansitettlffer the iron mines to escape. If the argurnehitr advanced were good against the lead' or copper mines, they were equally good against the iron mlnesaf: By the 45d of Elizabeth, the lead mines had beetedirerpie4•from poor rates, and }lad never paid anyti,it..w44 left to the wisdom of the Hon. Centletztento devise the expedient in aid of the landed, interest.): TiPipreprietors of lead mines were under great obligations to the llonourable Member, for assurances that be would in the Committee propose something in their favour. Those who should sup port 4 Bill in its present shape, would prove the greatest enemies to poor men. But he did not wish, at dsis .stage-of the Bill, to travel farther into the question. Instead ofimposing a duty on mines, the Honourable Member ought to encourage Benefit So cieties, and thus save the country from the demora lised state of which he complained. It would be ex traordinary indeed, that after two years research of the Committee, they should at last concur with the Honourable Member in dragging into liability the • property.hiload mines, which had never before been dreamt 0C Inttead of such property being a fortu nate concern, it was in many instances very doubtful and precarious. The demoralized system, which the Honourable Gentleman so pathetically lamented, did not arise from the operations of the lead mines, and therefore he could not support the Bill. Lard LASCELLES declared 'himself a strong friend to the measure. With regard to the increase *•of pauperism, and the demoralized state of the coun try arising from such a lamentable cause, he per-. feet - agreed with what had fallen from the Honour able Mover (Mr. Merit). In all the parishes or dis lriets of the North where there were any lead mines, the 'population had nos only increased, but pauperism bad also increased in.a•greater ratio. In one district • alone, where the population amounted to 5000, the whole, with the exception of about 500, were all per sons belonging to the mines. But the increase of paupenisrn was even in a greater degree. Thus the landed interest became sufferers to an incredible loss, because the paupers, to whatever amount, must be supported. The poor rates had consequently kept pace with the vast increase of pauperism. For the sr.isfaction of the Hou_oe, and to prove the necessity of the Bill, he would give the following statement of four districts parishes. In the first, the poor • nixes in 13N1 v..ere nothing ; in the year 1818, they amounted to £944. In the second, the poor rates the year 1816 Were £663 ; iu the year 1818, they amounted to £llOO. In the third, the poor rates is the year 1816 wr:re £775 ; in the year 1818, *41—. 7 1 amounted to •C28:11. In the foitrth• district or the poor rates in the year 1816 were £333 ; in the year 1818, they amounted to £1147. His Lordship' . hoped that these statements would prove the neces- ' sits' for such a Bill as now proposea ; and therefore it •should have his heart.) , support. Alderman WOOD was surprised that the Honour able Mover intended that a Bill which ought to have a partial operation--because the grievances corn planted of were confined to particular districts—was framed so as to inaude in itsgrasp the whole mining property of the country. The Worthy Alderman, lac-Z-6 the subject ludicrously, thought that when uy supporting pauperism. . itbout _ mines, the population would be thinned, and conse quently, from the want of effort, by the decrease of men, the country would in such a proportion be in jured. The pressure of the poor rates in the parishes or districts alluded to were at last become intolet able—intolerable to such a degree, that the very pro prietor himself was endangered by the hazard of personal pauperism —his Lordship meant by running the risk of becoming a parish pauper 1 His Lord - - ship trusted and hoped that the House Would see the justice and equity of the Bill, and not be deterred from supporting it by the arguments of the Honour able Baronet. Mr. V. PAULET supported the Amendment. If Ihe Bill were agreed to, property in mines would be 'given up altogether. Mr. CURWEN said, that although lands in the neighbourhood of mines might have increased consi derably in value, that was no reason, as seemed to be argued by the Honourable Baronet (Sir James Graham), why they should be taxed, and the mines 'exempted. The truth was, that if the mines did not turn out-profitable, they would pay. no tax. persons who petitioned for this. Bill, merely wislsed• to be restored to the situation in which they were before the present niode of collecting the rates was introduced. He could not help observing, that the sentiments of the Honourable Baronet ,seemed to have undergone a complete revolution since this measure was formerly brought before the House— (hear, hear)—for on that occasion, the Hon. Baronet appeared to be eager for it, and had actually assisted in framing the Bitl—(thar, hear). He should, how ever, oppose any exemption in favour of iron mines, because he thought that every mine which was pro fitable ought to pay ; and if, as had been remarked by the Noble Lord (Lascelles), any particular de scription were excepted, advantage would be taken of that exception, on some pretext or other, by every description of mines in the kingdom. Sir JAMES GRAHAM explained. Gentlemen ought to recollect, that when lands produce an in come, mines frequently did not produce a single shilling. Mr. MORRIT was about to reply ; but the Ques tion being loudly called for from all sides, the House divided on the Amendment, when the numbers were For the Amendment 77—Against it 43—Majority 91. The Bill was consequently lost. SCOTTISH BOROUGHS. Mr. HUME held in his hand a Petition from the Burgesses of the Royal Borough of St. Andrews, pray ing that the House would take into consideration the propriety of the internal reform of the Scottish Bo roughs. The Petition was signed by. the most re spectable persons in St. Andrews. It presented a striking proof of the - profligacy of the present system' of the self-elected Magistrates, who were not respon sible to the Public, but to themselves only, for their conduct. There was a constant difference or dissen tion between the Burgesses and the Magistrates, as now elected. All the prope r ty of th e former was liable to be called upon by the latter, who might squander it away in the most profligate manner, without any responsibility for such conduct. The Petition did not, as some Gentlemen had illiberally said of other similar Petitions, pray for a Reform in Parliament No. It deprecated a Reform in the Representation to Parliament, but it prayed earnestly for a Reform of the internal government of the Scoi tish Boroughs. And the Petitioners stated, that tlisl expedient could afford them any relief without tliitY much-wished-for Reform. . • - The Petition was ren t , .i ordered to lie on the e iittlei and to be printed. . • • ictscep,4l% Lord LOWTHER presesoc i d, a, "g e tVCirial, near Kend.ll, against the Poor Sett ni t t ordered-to lie on the table, and to be printed.- `VW' , • r Sir H. PARNELL presented a reds. Orem the &Man . , Catholics of the Pariah of St...odoon, Dohjf, praying to be ie. stored to their righte and•rivilegcs.—rteicad Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. C. WYNN** ii4oireil 'the &idler consideration of t he Mad-house Re&latiost tsf May. • Mr. MELGISH pesiented 001 1 0000 ,t one from Nadir/- ton. tbe othorfroon (Alm:44ow the rarlsh Clerk bill. A Motion vtasinade and etrried;for die production of an-Ac. count of tile Weelliltiturn of the - Aniolint of IlanlvorErgland Notes, so far u can be mode up 10 the leteJt paidd. Mr. LUSHINGTON presented an Accirirt cf the Scram charged Assessed Taxes.--41.diourted till ilecc4). --1•f"+~ .... _- ~~ .. - 7,7 d er*or. (.17 yrus EVENING .STAR.,.. greet majority, hive' Aim's been §ound— oad r . ,this majority was free—{Murrnur s and intm , rl7 : M. de la Bourdonnaye) ~ What, the Conventio n ; 4 The KEEPER of the SEALS.--." yes, Sit; a t ,! if Convention had not voted urger puftrdk would not have been afflicted with the trill* a rt tide"—(Loud applause from the lifi . siitt, il,d Tribunes.)— The The KEEPER of the SrALs re and insisted, that it was almost always the acti n without which a factious minority called to it, • that was the cause of former IssembEes iivilt impelled into the course which they priced. wished not to be understood as meaning th np opinion ought to be disregarded ; but ILL. 0.• has other channel; of manifesting itself. It isb, Elections that that ought to be done. ' Pic F., 0 lency concluded by citing many passa?.ec loz : Lolme, which shew, that, according to the 1:•: : , England, the Members of Parliament are respc , 7:l for whatever they publish through the medi aei 1 the Press. Lo&norait S AWED Alifi-A KUL t 4, 1819. 'THE ru - Ntis. PRICE OF-NTODUS THIS DAT AT ONE O . CLCCIC: 3 per Cent. Re-dtic,;...d 71111 3 per Cent. Consols 721 83 per Cent. 891- . -4 perCent.9olll 5 per Cent. Navy 104-411 Bank Long Annuities 18 13-16 India Bonds Si 28•pre.—South-Se: Exchequer Bills (2d.) 4 5 premium Commercial 27 28 discount Consols for Acct. 72fial. Stock 80i Consols have improved'a little this morning. They, commenced at 72i, went to 72}, but aftewards re ceded to 721, and again rose to 721. Much business has 'been done. The reports are so numerous re specting the amount of the Loan, some reducing it to Nine Millions, that it would be needless to men tion them. We believe nothing certain is yet known. M. Maxim. was again heard in reply. M. ROGER DE COLLARD was against all the znents. , We cannot divest ourselves of the idea we have ever entertained of the disrespectability attached to ' the scenes of which the Stock Exchange is constantly the theatre, nor can we reconcile it to our ideas of propriety, that parties, whether in the secrets of the State or not, shall be allowed to trifle with the pro perty of the nation, by making lists for loans, &c. before the financial measures in contemplation have been suffered to transpire. Here we perceive men knowing, -or supposing to know, that a certain sum of money will be required for the services of the State, using every effort to render the bargain as dis advantageous to the nation as possible, with the sole and obvious view to derive a trifling profit in the first instance, and then suffer things to take their own course. We make these reflections in consequence of our knowing positively, that very few real bona 'de 7 The PRMIDENT then proceeded to put 6111141 vote the amendment of the Keeper of the Seals,i the omission of the words " defamniOn or inju re ,' This amendment was rejected by a large niipri The amendment of. M. I..tiNEws nest Frei vote, and also rejected by a hirse majority. The sub-amendment of M. Memict. was laksi negatived. . . The Chamber then adjourned 'till the fol .* day the dicussion on an article proposed by M.'• jamin Constant, in favour of journali..ts who the proceedings of the Chamber. Some disturbances similar to those which Ird occurred at Nismes, broke out on the 4th instal Vigau, a town about 20 leagues distant. The Prei of the Department, on receiving intelligence of I affair, immediately set off with a detachment oral seurs from Nismes, and succeeded without any p sition, in restoring the public peace. The departure of the Persian Ambassador for El land was put off from Tuesday till Thursday. Five per Cents. Tuesday, 66 fr. 90 c. transactions of magnitude have tsken place in the Funds for some time. The Commissioners are served by Jobbers, and these influence the market by fictitious bargains. Money is extremely plentiful, but Capitalists are, of course, withheld from investing it in the Funds, by the dread of gambling operations. U , PRIVATP. LETTER. , The Paris Papers of Wednesday arrived at a late hour this forenoon. " The Monarchy-men • are turned sulky, they-t not vote at all in the Chamber of Deputies; sons the better : they are null inmerit, the good !easel the Nation is against them, they are overpowered) laombers, they therefore do right to hold tongues and not vote at- all ; but this sullenne intended only, to mask sope Iviclsed design, new conspiracy, sow new titiesscre, under p of Religion, and the Throne; tor they comp! seParate the KING fie s ta tOe Thrite. The Em FitAticta will not fsffer a single rrenchman, be rank what it may,,Ndoßy ,eAt . young NAPOLEO and, for.the j AIM . with the kiNG knot suffer any U14:34 he his rank what it may, approach his sacred, person. It is certain that Monarchy-men meditate a blow some where: silence is not •that of contentment; they thick bs cOitpde-main that they . may get possession of po but should they obtain it by treason, there are millions of men who have sworn to be free, and will avenge it." The Chamber of Deputies proceeded on Tuesday with the adjourned discussion of the Project oflaw on the Press. Article 20th, proposed to enact that no, action should He for defamation or injury from any speech delivered in either Chamber, or any report or other document printed by order of either of the Chambers M. Lama suggested the addition of the word opixiont, in order to comprehend in the privilege, ophions which a Member might not have delivered 'in the House, but which he might wish so make public through the medium.of the Press. The Keirsit of the SEALS resisted the amendment, as opening a door to the greatest abuse of Parliamen tary privileges. He moved at the 'same time, that the words " for defamation or injury" should be omitted. . M. MANUEL proposed to modify the amendment of M. LAME to this effect—" That no prosecution 'should lie unless specially authorised by the Chamber Months ago we endeavoured to call the to which the Member belengs. of the Public to the situation of the lonian M. Cowell combated in a very eloquent speech' from certain political symptoms which then the Amendments both of M. Leine and M. Manuel. to indicate a possibility that the port of Parga He asked if they could wish for more than the Par- be given up to the PORTE. On this subject Sir liament of England enjoyed? In that country it was Alonoc put a question to Lord CASTLEREAGH I none of the privileges of a legislator to convert the night in the House of Commons, " whether anti trust reposed in him by his fellbw Citizens, i nto a gociation had been entered into for the ieSien means of wantonly disturbing th e p eace o f t h e S tate Parga to the T ur k s ?" L or d Caslararadit i and of individuals. The English have not imagined understood to reply, that " a negotiation tolhit di that the quality of a Member of Parliament ought was on foot, but not yet concluded."-If not r to give impunity to crimes' and misdemeanours. cluded, it never ought to be: but if we may cre When a Deputy has any thing to communicate on measures before the Chamb er , h e h as a l ways an a paragraph in the Afonitenr, it has already be ceded ! 'lite followin g a pp ear ed in the Afoniteur ample opportunity of doing so, and h e i s gu il ty o f a the 3d insta n t : neglect of duty when he does not. To, extend the a General Maitland, who is a great (rewrite with the Gtr Seignior, has, in consequence o f orders from hi. Goverrnel privilege of Parliament t o p r i nte d op i n i ons—to un spoken opinionwould be to extend indemnity to ceded the fort of Par , a, oc c upi e d hitherto by the English. Ali Rey (lianied Bey), who was directed by the Grand every species of intemp erance an d a b use , nior to take possession. Ills Ilighness has- scut the orders` M. LAME DE VI LLEVESQUE supported the amend. Crescent to the English General. as a mark of his satisfactics menu of M. Leine and M. Manuel. The suspicions we entertained some months M. LAINE replied. - are verified by these facts, and by the Article rela • The KEEPER of the SEALS was again heard. Th to these islands in the Treaty of Paris, which functions of the Chamber, he said, reduced them- thus ' selves undet two heads, the right of public discus- " Art. 1. The Island's of Corfu, Cr phalenia, Zante di , 71. - ; sion,, and of 'kiting. - Whatever may be the opinion, Ithaca, ri Ce be ri d ge . , an h d P l a.:zo, at ;rl. thCi L i l li h e e is v ide . ric es 4 t , s, s the snail), of a Deputy, he abandons his functions the moment are of all the Russia, t h e and the ( t h y tom l a w n Porte, of t he :Ist of 3br he goes beyond this, sphere of public discussion. 11100, shall form a sinrl,, free, and Independent Stew, When the members' o f an assem bl y d o not succeed the denomination of the United States of the lonian Idol . u in•convlncins their colleagues, they are but too often Was the town of the Parguinotes not in substa: desirous of Appealing to what they call the supreme one of the Dependencies so described as anictr:: epinion of. the nation : those who do so forget their part of the lonian Republic? It was, indeed, ructions as Deputies. Nay more (said the HOnour. the Islands came into our hands. the last Deieth' r. *le Member) they are straying into a course of disor- remaining to them on the coast of Greece. There" :Cfer, , Into a revolutionary cousre—(Great agitation).— of Parga might at any time have delivered thereat'' Everything that calls on the Representative Body the up to At .I Pa .•::ti. Why, then, did thcrstr . afirect actiou of the Multitude, is unconstitutional, and der to Brest Britain? Why did they vango:' *Ontraay yet t4e,nature of Representative Government. bench Barris +n, lad give themsel-vi up to an itldari heaK) •It was clue to the honour cf France to lish Officer ? Vt'ai it that ire !sho-:.lci ')cam L. Syr . „,thscflis;strous as the resu l ts o f the nuMerons to the horrid ronishments prepared for all Mir ,- assetxg.lie's l / 4 ,4iigh: have preceded-the I present have tian enemies by the virdiCti.i.T.TA r Was it''' . been, balelul as have; bketkik auspices ander whith the contrary, that we should 4:U . ..rend :.':tilt ' '• tlit' ti.e ...qtaubta s haze dtlibetatcd, the nial,tits , , a very I against Iliiir; havinz, from what , had lulV-.'" 1.. - .... •. • ~ .-.,. -.... ~r:,; ~. -i ...... t :