Star. — London, England, 1816-04-10 00:00:00

paid 'IMMO a-year in one way or the other; and the Home was now about to vote 5660,000 mere. Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought some alteration should be made to eztlude . this thirty thousand pounds from the Civil List. Mr. I.USHINGTON said, that this could be ar ranged when the Civil List came under discussion— (Hear.) The present criestion merely had reference to the annuity of her Royal Highness. T'ue thirty thousand pounds in the Civil List, so far as she was concerned, would cease, and the public would have the benefit of i t . Mr. BROUGHAM disliked allowing this matt& to stand over hr discussion until a tuture moment. _ ..... Parliament was now employed in making a grant of a;xty thousand pounds to the Princess charlotte, who had thirty thousand pounds already orithe Civil List. Why not add thirty thousand pooch' to the present sum, or distinctly make an appropriation ? it, to place its benefit to the public beyond all qiiAtion ? Mr. W. DUNDAS urged, that the public were relieved from this sum, on her Royal Highness's re ceiving the larger income. Mr. CA LC It AFT said, that when a proper expla. nation arrived, they would all be found to mean one avid the same thine. He could not but regret the absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It was the first time in the areals of Parliament that a grant of that nature was proposed for their consideration by a Secretary of the Treasury--(Hear.) It was due in common respect to the station of the parties concerned, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should have submitted the proposition ; for, without meaning any ill compliment to toe Honuurable Gen tleman opposite, who seemed to know nothing about the subject, the House might then expect to receive some information. But as the matter now stood it appeared that the Princess Charlotte was to receive Ler sixty thousand pounds annuity, and the thirty thousand pounds she previously enjoyed was, instead of falling to the public, to revert to the Civil List.— The matterought now to be set at rest one way or another.—[Here Lord Castlereagh entered the House, which Mr. Calcraft perceiving, he imme diately restated his view of the case.] The Honour- able Member then proceeded to inquire in what man ner the reversion of the thirty thousand pounds was io be secured to the public ?—(fareer, hear.) Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that her Royal Highness's lot mer provision was partly taken out of the Consolidated Fund, and other charges were paid ont of the different departments of the household.— Those would now fire tarts, create a saving of 34 or d 135.000, 22 or d)23,000 of which would go to the improvement of the Civil List. The state of the Civil 'List could be hereafter discussed. The provi sion made by Parliament for this fund was inadequate during the war to meet its charges, but as thibalance was provided out of the Droits of the Crown, a per minent regulation of its funds would be advisable. Mr. CUR WEN was as desirable as any man could be for unanimity upon a question of this kind, but the Noble Lord had now pretty roundly said that the Civil List was inadequate to its ex pendi e—( Hear.) Whatever clay be the opinion of the Noble Lord on this point, he (Mr. Curwen) trustedthat no man at tached to the Prince Regent, or who valued the ne cessity of his Royal Highness's cultivating the hearts and affections of his people, would be found in the present state of the counts to recommend his Royal Highness to come down to the House for an addition to his income- . -(Near, hear.) It was a matter of deep regret that those arrears should exist ire the con cerns of the Royal Family—but he, for one, would feel it an indispensable duty to oppose any pecuniary advance to those personages at a moment like this— (lleac, hear.) Tire House would totally neglect its duty if it aid not follow his example. Were the re trenchments of his Majesty's Ministers, he wouldl ask, in any proportion to the reduced state ,ot the I country ? This continuance of borrowing must soon stop, and economy, instead of being in the ratio tat thousands, must be in that of millions, or a national bankruptcy must be the consequence—(Hear.) Mr. LAW restated his former opinions Mr. LUSHINGTON adverted to what had fallen froth an liononrable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Cal. craft) and admitted, that if he could have contem plated a debate, it would hive been presumption in him to have made the proposition in the absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He telt no reason to depart from his opinion, already expressed, on this subject. CALCR AFT said, that want of information created the debate. Was the £6,500 a year, which bee Royal Highness received out of the Consolidated Fund, to be deducted from the present increased al lowance ? _ Mr. LUSH INGTON—•" Certainly." Mr. BROUGHAM said, this accounted for six thousand five hundred pounds, but what was to be done with the balance of £23,500 ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that the Princess Charlotte would receive an annuity of sixty thousand pounds in lieu of her former allowances. The thirty thousand pounds from the Coil List would, of course, go to meet any excess th4t may arise. It was clear, therefore, that the Con. dblidated Fund, the Lord Steward's, the Lord CIIAM berlain's, and the Master of the Horse's department, would berelieved from those charges, and in the pro. ,portion of their amount would the excess that the irablic Might hereafter be called on to pay, be of course reduced. This expenditure made no part of List year's, or of the present estimates—ilrey were merely in the Extraordinaries. Mr. TIERNET.—It seems that the Consolidated' Pond will be relieved from 6 or 47,000 to which her Royal Highness's former establishment exposed it. 't he Estimates, it is said, did not recognise the item of 412,000 in the Lord Steward's department, wor the 810,000 in the Master of the Horse's depart. silent, nor the additional charge in the Special Service account. From her t.oyal Highness's charge, these s tands, it appeared, would be released. This WAS ifilbt end proper; but his .(Mr. Tirney's) objection *eta to the manner of doing this. He did not like 40 see this constant departure from the old, but in ,the minds of some men, exploded practice of ("ming' to parliament ipstead of the Consolidated Fund, for aid for the Royal Family. Is the rent of a house for her Royal Highness to be deducted from her annuity, or added to it ?—(The Chancellor of the Exchequer said 6 , .iVe," across the table.)—it was, his j Mr. Tierney's) opinion, that in grawing the large sum they had given, it was intended that her Royal Highness should maintain a great degree of state, should keep drawing-rooms, and other ceremo nies suited to her rank. Bat he now found ship Camelford House, merely the residence oT a private Gentleman, was taken for the Royal Personages. In this view of their Royal Highnesses establishment, the proposed grant was certainly too much.—(Cris ti Hear, hear, hear,)—and nothing less than a waste of the public money. He (Mr. Tierney) would give liberally to see proper splendour, but he would be niggardly if privacy was to be the station of an Illus trious Personage, who ought to have an opportunity of associating with those over whom she was one day destined to rule. Is it, or is it not, intended that her Royal Highness should hold drawing-rooms ? [Lord Cattlereagh made no answer.]—Then it was evident that hie Majesty's Ministers had given the Prince Regent's daughter in marriage, but they did not tell his Royal Highness what was to become of her after. Hear, and a laugh.)--Did any one doubt that she would be the heiress to the Throne of these realms? — none. Then why is she not allowed to possess suit able Court etiquette and ceremonies ? On this point the Noble Lord indicates that he will give no answer. “ Then," said Mr. Tierney... I will give no money— though I must admit that lie can easier hold his tongue, than I keep bit k the money. ( Much laughter.) If the Princess Chat lout is to be immured in the re. tirement of private life, this annuity is nothing less than a profligate waste of the public mioney."— (hear, hear.) #): Lord CA3TLE:REAGH recalled to the Houss, that this grant wai quite distinct from the question of her future manakonent of it. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Tierney) had, by the vio lence of his gestures and the dramatic effect of his action, formed a sort of comedy olit of this subject ; but lie (Lord Castlereagh) felt no wish to take a part with him in the play—(Hear, hear, from the Trea :toy Bench) —on the contrary, lie would confine him self to the real matter befidre them. The annuity of 460,000 was the wilole sum of her Royal Highness's grant, except perhaps a residence for the Illustrious Personages in the country, which was their own 001 M As to the suggestion for the establishment of rules and regulations in the disposal of their own income, the comments of the Right Hon. Gentleman were merely the insinuations with which he usually indulged when matters of this kind were under dis cussion. —(Hear, hear.) Mr. TIERNEY was perfectly indifferent to the imputations of the Noble Lord. He might indeed corn those insinuations to account elsewhere, but their operation would nut deprive the House of the advan tage of discussions like the present.—(Hear, hear.) He would pursue his own way in discharging the duty he owed hi: constituents, quite unmindful of such language as he had just heard. He (Mr. Tier ney) had asked the Noble Lord a simple question, with reference to the son of state which her Royal Highness was destined to hold. 'lb this he gave no auswer—taking special care, however, to adopt an opposite course when the answer would tell for him self. (Hear, hear, hear). He felt no hesitation at hinting to the Committee that a country house might be waited—(hear, hear,)—but he declined giving an answer to a far more vital question. (Hear, hear). There could be no difficulty iu pro:uriag a suitable residence for her Royal Highness, out of the number of unoccupied palaces which covered the face of the couutry. (Hear, hear.) There was nothing until now about a country residence—when the subject first came under debate, a town residence was aii that bad been talked of, and he (Mr. Tierney) then pro posed the Ordnance Office, is Pall-Mall, an ed:fice suited to any extent of splendour, sbeaides the advan. rage (no small one in these times) of its costing the public nothing, for the Ordnance business could be transferred to that fine building the Transport Office, ,which, though just finished, wss a little too late for public use. (Hear, hear.) If a country residence were wanted, why not tetain.Cranbourn Lodge, or transfer the Grand Lodge, or The fanciful Windsor Cottage, which, after all the money expended on it, had never been made use of ? There could be no objection any of thee plans ; any decision would have been better than that which appeared decided, -namely, to destine her Royal Highness to a life of privacy, and with an enormous (at least for this mode of living) sin unnecessary income. It was a part, however, of the modern system, that expense should be in a certain quarter annually increasing, in the same inverse proportion that the acts of Royalty which met the public eye became fewer and less con spicuous. The recommendation by which the present grant was regulated, appeared to him the most inde cent proposition that had ever been held out to the House or the country.—(Cheer:.) Mr. ABERCRODABY declared, that there never was so direct an insult given as that which the Noble Lord had just directed to the House and the people. (Bear, hear.) The question which the Noble Lord had refused to answer, was not of less importance than this—whether the presumptive heiress to the Throne (for such, under the peculiar circumstances of her father, she certainly was), was, in the eyes of his Majesty's Ministers, in the direct line to the' Throne, or but a simple member of the Royal Fa mily 1 and this was the question which the House had no right to have solved. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Abercromby) would assert, that the House had a right. o have this question answered ; and that when the Noble Lord refused to give this infurina. lion, and at the same time asked' for an annuity of /60,000. be offered a palpable insult to the people of England. hear.) If the Princess Charlotte , must live pia privacy, what necessity exists for her having a larger income than the Duchess of Cumber land lute/ We ask, under what character she is to haw more/ .and.can receive no answer.—(Hear.).' The idea that we had nothing to do with the con-, cerns of the Royal Flintily, was a -new doctrine in. the Constitution, and its assertion a public insult.. (Near, hear.) Lord CASTLEREAGH sajd, Le might safely leave to the House the consideration of this subjento They would, he anticipated, think with him, that his' Majesty's Ministers had nothing to de with the future, Private concerns of her Royal Highness, of whichd they could know twitting. (Hear, Aran) As to the station in which her Royal Highness legally I stood, that could not be altered by his Majesty's Mi nisters. When she is is possession of her income, it Is doubtless at her own disposal, and he /Lord Cis dereagh) was not there to answer for her mode of disaibutmg it. . Mr. BROUGHAM saki, that the discussion had been oisconceived—the Gentlemen at his side of the House had merely called for the mode of expenditure that was in contemplation. not from idle curiosity, but because they were called upon for an annual grant of 460,000. If her Royal Highness was not to be distinguished from any other of the Royal Princesses, why confer upon her more than £20,000 a year, their allowance ? (Hear.) It was in vain to draw subtle distinctions on the subject of her rank in the State--the chances were more than WOO to one, whatever may be the strict presumption of law, that she would one day fill the throne of these realms ....she was in substance and fact, though not in law, the heiress apparent to the Crown. (Hear, hear.) In fact, there could be no other reason for conferring upon her this ,splendid, but not too splendid provi sion. Again and again he (Mr. Brougham) would disclaim any intention of reducing it, or of impeding the progress of that auspicious match which was now on the tapis ; but it was his imperative public duty to scrutinize every sort of expense. The Noble Lord had said, he was not in posses,ion of her Royal Highness's intentions; but he e ell knew, that. in a certain quArter, he had eve.ry facility of acquiring the necessary information. State she ought to have, and an opportunity of ascertaining, by her own judgment, the character of that people over whron she was destined to rule. It was in vain to expect she could support her proper sta tion in Camelford H ruse. lie had the greatest respect for that house laugh,)—he meant for its possessor, but it was quite inadequate for the splen dour which belonged to her Royal Highness's natu ral station. Hitherto it appeared, and this was to him a matter of great astonishment, that her Royal Highness, living, as she had been, in the most pri vate manner, with less of comfort, and he feared of convenience, than any of the other branehes of the Royal Family, or nine out of ten of the Nobles, had yet in this comfortless mode of life spent £37,009 a year.—(Hear, hear.)—Now if she had, by the gross mismanagement of chose about her, expended such a sum, what could be expected when, with an increas ed establishment, she had only £23,000 a year addi tional for its maintenance ? But the fact stated, really appeared to him quite impracticable.—(Hear, hear.) —He felt so strong the necessity of further in formation, both as to the £90,000 of the Civil List, and the future regulation of her Royal Highness's Stablishment, that, for the purpose of receiving far ther information, he would move that the Chairman do report progress. Mr. METH IJEN, before be went to a vote, beg. ged to ask, whether her Royal Highness's past in come had liquidated her current expense, and if any thing yet remained to be cleared off ? As to her Royal Highness's future expenditure, and the cere. monies which may belong to her rank, he would leave the adjustment of those to her own good sense and judgment.—( Hear, hear.) Lord CASTLEREAGH replied, there were no arrears, and that her intended income was to embrace her whole means. In consequence of a suggestion from Mr. METH UZN that some delay was necessary— Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that out of the six er £7OOO during her Royal Highness's establishment in Warwick Court, was paid all the Ladies in atten dance, and persons connected with her education, and he did not see Irw any inference could be raised that there had been eery extravagance. Sir M. W. RIDLEY was of opinion that a clause ought to be introduced in the Vll, for the regulation of the funds with which her Royal Highness had been supplied out of the Civil List and Consolidated Fund. Mr. LYTTLETON said, that according to the mode apparently arranged, a grant of £21,000 was made to the Civil List. Ike disliked those steps after the outfit which the Wince Regent had formerly got. The country was unanimous in reprobating such proceedings. Mr. FORBES was of a similar opinion. Mr. W YNN would not concur in the opinion that the private affairs of the Royal Family were not to be scrutinized. The House had a . right to inspect them.--(Near.)—As to her Royal Highness's recent establishment, until to-night it was conceived, that Lai, y Rosslyn, and her other female attendants, re ceived no remuneration for their services. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the Act of the 52d of the King regulated the appropriation of the Civil List, and provided for la deficit at £124,000 a year, which, deducting the income of r£6O(X) to the Princess Charlotte, would leave £llB,OOO recognised by Parliament, and which it had engaged to make good. Mr. TIERNEY shortly observed, that he protest. e 4 against the mode of argument used by the Right Han. Gentleman. The amendment was then negatieed, and the ori ginal question carried without a division. The SPNAKER having resumed the Chair, the Re port of the Committee was brought up, and the Re. solutions read and agreed to. On the motion for the third reading of the Bill— Sir R. FERGUSSON asked the Noble Lord op posite, whether, at the time of erecting the Electorate of Hanover into a kingdom, any alteration had been made in the constitutional principles relative to the sucession ? Lord CASTLEREAGH was trot aware that any alteration had taken place in Hanover, respecting the succession; but he declared himself unprepared to answer every question that may be proposed to phial, relative to other kingdoms. The Dill was then read the third time, and passed. A Message from the Lords requested that the House would be pleased to communicate to their Lordships whatever information it may have possess ed relative to the expenditure of Ireland. The request being acceded to, The SPEAKER informed the Lords' Messengers that the House would return an answer by a Mes senger of its own. Mr. lame brought op a return of the quantiv of coal andculm exported from the harbour of Liver. pool ; and sdso of the quantities erported from the Principality of Wales to - other parts of the kingdom. —Laid on ,the table. A Petition was presented from the Island of Ely, inCambridgeshire e praying far a revision of the Poor Laws, which in,thcir present state Jsvased with ea- creme severity on the agricultural red to the Agricultural Committee. Petitions were presented from the , riers, and Shoe makers, of Carmarthen, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and Montgorrie , the Leather Tax.—Laid on the table Mr. A BEV CR.OMBY presented the occupiers of chambers in Lin( against the erection (if a Court for ccllor in the Span!, which the sented to be injurious to their interec ing the free circulation cf air. " referred to the Committee fur thl Vice Chancellor's Court. Mr. NEWMAN presented a Pe t i t i on f rom their habitants of the Parr , li fit Sloth Brent, and tweh o o t f h t e h r e P i a ,i r t i i s i h e e s. s in Devon, praying fo r a comruutatp, Mr. Par-wort and Mr. Ct:awEN expresald th an . selves favourable to the principle of commutati.):' which should, however, be examined wtth calme e ,, and in a manner calculated to remove 4 very natura: alarm from the minds of the Clergy. Mr. NEWMAN attributed the increase of sectJ ries from the Church of Englani, to the diyleasul which the present system of tithes raised in the Ni s i of the farmers against the Clergyman. The pep were therefore desirous to have Meeting houses, tha t they might not be compelled to meet him. The Petition wa? .hen hid on the table. Mr. CA ECRA FT presented a pe!i!ton from A t Licensed Victuallers of Deptford, Dartford, and ot h er places. praying for a repeal o f t h e additioto duties on licenses.—Ordered to lie o n t h e e,,t e , Mr. CUR.WEN wished that an o r d er , made a feiv on his motion respectin the step s ta k ed t fornmigi might carrying since, discharged,into effect ats he intended heplan to substi tute o Man 4, another. The order was in consequence discharged, and the Honourable Membet moved--" That there be laid before the House a copy of the instruction,, Government for carrying into effect the plan of Cap. rain Manby, for saving sailors from shipwreck."— The motion was agreed to. A report of the fees received in the Navy Office, an account of the expense of victualling ships, arx also an account of the exchanges of foreign nation; were laid on the table. Mr. WARD laid oa the table a return, of the ntut ben of Barracks for Cavalry, and of the Contracts fa the Ordn3rce Dep/rtmenr. Mr. Scrjcant ONS LOW rose, in pursuance of L:► notice, to move to- ieave to bring in a ELI to the Act of the Si and 4:h cf Wiliam and Mary ;.. and also r. similar Act for Ireland, of the ; Anne, enti!ied—g , An Act for affording relief to cn ditors against fraudulent devizes." His ~ beet w. to give to creditors the same facility of recoveriL their debts by action against the Dzvizees as they ts, joyed against the heir. After a few words from Mr. PRESTON, in la. your of the Bill, leave was given. The Bill was brought up, read a. firs; time, and dered to be read a 2d time on the 2i;:h of April. t le t GENERAL REGISTRY CP DEEDi, Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW moved tor ieavt.. to brim io a Bill for the estahlishmen of a General Resistri of Conveyances, Deed', and Wills, asTectinr property in every County in Great Britain, rum York and Middlesem. lie would not propose to re r.• der such an cstabiishment compulsory ca every county, but would leave a discretionary power to the majority of the Magistrates at tlle Ql.ater Sessions to Accept it not. It was unnecessary for him to inform the House, that formerly all conveyances were made public, or to state why the system had, hceu altered ; but the question was, whether the evil should not be remedied ? He commented on the advantages that had resulted to York and IC. dlesex, from the establishment of Registries, and the convenience that would arise to the nation in general from giving publicity to all conveyances, and show. ing to kosaide purchasers on what security they aJ. vaned their money. At presenemuch inconvettienee was felt, by the difficulty of raising money bymort gage, which would be obviated by the adoption of this measure. He then concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill in furcherence of the measure. Mr. CROKER spoke of the advantages derived to Ireland from the establishment of such a system, and conceived it must be of equal utility is this country. Mr. PRESTON argued.on the futility of such an establishment, which be considered to be a class of confusion, attended with difficulties, Sir F. FLOOD was astoeislied to hear ohleetions urged against the principle of the Bill, and partitu• larly from a Gentleman of high professional charau ter. tie commented on the great advantages wand Ireland derived from a similar establishment. and concluded with giving the proposition his hearty concurrence. Mr. Serjeant ONSLO%V hoped that the Horton. rable Member (Mr. Preston) was not influenced in his objections by an appehension of a diminution in his professional business. The Bill was brought in, read a first time, and or. dered to he read a 2d time on the 26Th of April. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the Bank Restriction Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to morrow. V' h. sF The Bill for granting certain allowances Duties on Malt and Beer, was read a first time, sai ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. tv ac C AGRICULTURAL COM Mil TEL Mr. WESTERN moved, that the Order of the Day for the House resolving into a Committee al the Agricultural Interests, should be read.. The Order having been read accordingly, Mr. WESTERN said, that in the present thin state of the House, he end not feel himself disposed to go into the Committee on this subject. The na ture of the business before the House, he ford, would not permit him to go into the lull consider'• Lion of the question before the holidays. He svg gested, therefore, that it might be prudent to rot:. pone the Committee till after the recess. In the in• tetim, the Housf and the country would have an op• portunity of observing the effect which hAd been pro duced by the measures which had already beell adopted by his Majesty's Ministers, towards the re. lief of the agricultural interests—and of considti;i l g what other meAsures, might be 'adopted with the same view. LorICASTLEREAGH 4 aii, t h a t no o ne w:s • • interests..— :he Tanners, rthen, Ashborl irriery.thire,t, Rikt. ble. a Petition ft roe the Vice -C Petitioner s a p Tests, by p The Petition p erc.cCon of t