Star. — London, England, 1819-02-06 00:00:00

F, % ( I r PARLIAMENTAR y PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY S. The Duke of Se. Assam, and Viscount Assoc, (the latter on teseteedianto the Peoraireviry the demise of his father, the late Lard) . wers sworn, and took their seats. Conned were heard respeetingoeseral Scotch Appeals, Judg moot on *bleb were postponed. . • .• In the Jsirrit of error case, Coutts and Antrobus, v. Crosbie, Counsel Were also heard. ESTABLISHMENT OP HER LATE MAJESTY. '*Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the Order of the Diti.for their Lordships taking into considera tion bit final Highness the Prince Regent's Mes sage of yesterday, which being read, the Noble Earl rose to move an Address to his Royal Highness on the occasion. A brief mention of the nature of the question now before their Lordships, would, he con ceived, be amply sufficient, under the circumstances, to influence their determinations. The sum of 1.38,000 per annum, mentioned in the Royal Communication now before the House, was the amount of a portion of the Civil List, which, by the lamented demise of hes late Majesty, fell to the disposal of the Crown. This sum was unquestionably applicable, at the dis cretion of his Royal Highness, to other departments of the Royal Household, such as the Lord Cham berlain'.s, the Lord Steward's, or that of the Master of the Horse, but as it fell out, it could not be ap plied to the particular purpose, for which the Prince It egent, under these circumstances, graciously pro posed it, as the amount of pensions was, by the ge neral law upon the subject, restricted to £90,000 per annum. In former eases similar to the present, the practice was precisely that now proposed for adop tion, and indeperelent of the regular adviCe offered to his Royal Highness oa the occasion, lie was in fluenced by his own judgment and the natural feelings of hi. own heart to place the sum in question at the disposal of Parliament, at the same time putting it to the feeling or justice of the Parliament, to accede that course of procedure which had been adopted upon all former occasions of the kind, viz. the se. , curing the accustomed provision to those individuals who had long and faithfully served her late Majesty in different departments of her is ,usehold. The con tinuation, nut of their full allowances or emoluments, but of their respective salarlcs, was what was pro. posed. The extent of these would not in the aggre gate exceed I.:25,000 per annum, which would leave a clear sum of 1:33,000 per annum immediately sub ject to the disposal of Parliament. The saving which accrued was more than hall - the stun which had been allotted for her Majesty. He felt he merely had but to mention ',he circumstance to induce the just and liberal minds of their Lordships to concur in enabling Lis Royal Hijhness to carry his gracious intention into eifea.—(ifear, hear.)—lie should no longer de tain their Lordships, than to mole: an humble Ad dress to the Prince Regent, on the occasion of his most gracious Meisal - re acknowledging the liberality of his de;crmination in placing the stun in question at the disposal of Parliament, and assuring his loyal' Hiehness that the House would cordially concur in attending to those claims which his Royal Highness recommended to the attention of Parliament oa bs half of those individuals who were long the faithful servants of her late Majesty. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, he certainly did not mean to offer any objection to what the No ble Earl had specific illy proposed. At the same time he must be allowed to say, the subject to which the Message referred appeared to him to involve a ques tion of eonsiderable importance. lie meant chiefly. as it seemed to assume a power in the Crown, or. tionally, to place the sum in question at the disposal of Parliament ; as lie conceived such an assumption to be inconsisvint with the last Act on the subject of regulating the Civil List. By that Act the different slims appropriated were exclusively for particular services or departments of the Civil List. The Es tablishment of her bite Majesty was one of those ser vices, and the principle of approptiating the funds allotted for this to the service of other branches of the Civil List, may be carried to a length. which he thought never could be in the intention of the Legie. Lithe: to have sanctioned. Such were his ideas as to this part of the question. At the same time he could not think of hesitating to pay the same marks of respect to the memory of her late Majesty, which was customary on former occasions of the kind. Ile also expected the Noble Earl would have taken the opportunity to say something of the intentions with respect to other parts of the Royal Establishment, to which the attention of the deliberative wisdom of Par liament had already in some measure been directed. The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that the sub ject now before their Lordship', was conyletely dis • tinct from those parts of a mute extensive arrange• went to be considered in another place, and alluded to by the Noble Nlartais. What was at present be• fore the other !louse, was a course of enquiry on topics which, on a future day, would regularly conic under the consideration of heir Lordships. ‘Vitii respect to the particular objection of the Noble Mar (leis, as to the course pttrstied, as militating against tlie Act lot regulating the Civil List, passed about three years since, he could by no means agree•with him, that the present procedure was in the heist a leftist the spirit of that Act. The 58,0001. in ques tion was originally set aside from the Civil List, for supporting the establishment of her late Majesty, with an eventual discretionary power in the Crown to apply it afterwards to other branches of the Civil • List. The expenses of other departments of the Civil List were certainly applicable, eventually, to the general service of the public. When pensions were granted on the Consolidated Fund, the amounts on their ceasing, by the demise of the parties, were applicable to the public service. With respect to • those on the Civil List, in some cases it was different ; and in the particular case now before the House, the Appeal was from the Illustrious Personage himself, • who bad spontaneously placed the whole sum at the disposal of Parliament—Wear, hear). 'The Address was then voted nem. dig. and ordered so be presented by the Lords, with white staves, to the Prince Regent.—Adjourned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. . . NEW WRITS. The following were moved for is the usual manner: For Guildford, is the BOOM of Mr. Serjeant Baer, who since bin election had accepted she dies of one of his Majesty's Jtioyres of the Coon of King's Bosch. • • • "or Ashlsisrom, to the room of Mr. Serjeant Corssr. For New Windsor, in tie room of Colonel Dosposovon, deceased. For Inserness, in the room of Cassis+ Gwt,, Esq. who since his election had accepted the dice of Chief Secretary for Irela FoNew Yarmouth, in the roont of the Hon. TIZOMMI Wet. Anson, who since his election has succeeded by the death of his father to the Peerage. For Westminster, in the room of Sir S. Roauttv, deceased. The latter was moved by Mr. &MOHAN, without a single observation. It had for some time been rumoured and believed that the Honourable Member would have embraced that oppor tunity of bestowing an Eulogium on the memorable and . worthy deceased. The gallery was crowded. The SPEAK ER intimated that he had received a letter from Leslie Foster, Esq. stating, that he had been returned to Par liament for two places, viz. Armagh aad Liiburne, and that he had made his election for the former. A New Writ was con serently moved for Lisburne. Ile SPEAKER announced a similar intimation from Major Russell, who bad been returned for two places, viz. Sahash and Bletchingley, and that he had made his election for the former. A New Writ was therefore moved for Bletchingley. MANUFACTURERS OF PAPER. Mr. R. WARD presented a Petition from the Journeymen Manufacturers of Paper, stating, that Paper made by the new invention of Machinery was very injurious to their trade; that its quality was much inferior to that 'manufactured in the com mon way by the Petitioners; that the Petitioners, from want of employment by the detrimental effects of the machinery, were reduced to a state of starvation; and that the Petitioners therefore prayed for relief, by the House ordering that a certain stamp or water-mark be Ailed to the paper made by machinery, in order to distinguish it from that manufactured by the Peti tioners.—The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table. COUNTRY BANKS. Si MATTHEW WHITE RIDLEY, seeing the Chancellor of OWEacbequer in his place, begged leave to ask the Honour able Gentleman if it were the intention of Government to bring forward any specific plan r.:specting Country Bankers, as had been once in conteniplation on the probable resumption of Cash Payments by the Bank of England? The cIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER satisfied the lion. Member, by merely observing, that at present there was no specific plan in contemplinion respecting Country Banks. Sir MATTIIF.W WHITE RIDLEY further remarked, that he was now to understand from the Right Hon. Gentle. man, that there was no other plan in contemplation than that mentioned last year. The Cl I ANC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER again assured the lion. Member, that there was at that time no specific plan. P %PERS FROM INDIA. Lord BINNING moved, that the several Accounts and Pa pen presented yesterday from the East India IL use, should be printed and referred to a Committer. Mr. lIUMK comphined of the great Irregularity that had lately been experienced in the transmission of Papers and Do cuments from our Settlements in India. Lord BINNING stated, that every obstacle of the kind had been removed.—The motion was then agread to. COALS. Mr. LITTLETON wished to ask the Chancellor of the Ex chequer if A were the 'metal in of hi; i‘fales..y's Ministers to it a Tax An Coals at the Pit-mouth The CIIINCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered, that 1:0 S711:11 . sax was 1.:;d:r thr tonsideratio. of Ilia Msicsty. C.ll:r LAWS. Dir. lIR A r DF. moved the Hill which h4t Lad presented on a f.,rmer day shrrild now be read a time. Mr. '3IA DDOCKS hoped that none or the el:vises would in en:er: with or operate against the ICI which he interded to the nous:. , 'hr Bill was road a second tire, and ordered to be PRIZIIit• t.:(1 on Monday hest avnvns nv sa?!;rr..v. Mr. A TIF.Re ROM 1;1 F., aftvr comp! Dicing of the great tres ble and incc>nrc•ni...nce of attendance c:i wtt:n fur. ince: 1 izm -miry btisi , iess crash!, :o krc.w. if it was the intentioa of Lis Alajr.:ty's hlinistets dist the !loose sliott!tl' always sit or. the Stturday? Mr. LUSIIINGTON assured th- I trrourahle f3entilnian, that it was not tliz intention of Ids MajtstV.7 liiniaLts to de-• part from the usual przetlce. SUPPLY. The House, on the Motion of the CliANerr.tint of the EXCHEQUER, resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr. MICK:DEN in the Chair. Motions were passed fur the renewal of the usual Taxes on Land, Mali, Sugar, Scc. The House resumed, and the Report was or.lered to be received to•morrow. The Committee of Sup ply is ordered again for Monday next. CIIA ITA RL E XQUEST AT MOFFAT. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he held in his hands a Petition from the Minister, Elders,, and Inhabitant. to the numbei of upwards of tlirse hundred, of the PaliJi of Moffat, in Scotland. Ile ought first to mention, that the Minister and Elders of a Parish composed what in this country v: as called a Vestry. They formed also an ecclesiastical authority. These inhabitants, to the number of duce hundred, as he had already stated, bad taken the precaution to ob viate the effect of an objection which was sometimes made to similar Petitions, that persons of tender age had been called on to sign them, to add after each signature, the age of the person signing. They composed a great majoiity of the inhabitants of the Parish, arrived at the age of maturity. The Peti tioners stated, that in 1639, a lteverena Gentleman, who was a native of Moffat, had bequeathed £l,OOO sterling to Lord Johnstone, the ancestor of the pre sent family of Annandale, in order to lay out that in land ; and out of the re: is and.profits of the law! so purchased, to give a yearly sum to a school master in Moffatt, amounting to £25 or £26 :Lieut.. In the nest place, a sum of £lO or £l2 was to be given to an usher ; and in the third place, between 1.:7 and ES was so be paid to a writing-master. The School was to be a Grammar School, and the mas ter and usher were to be qualified to teach Latin. It was also directed that a sum should be laid out in the erection of a proper building for the School.— They stated that they had every reason to believe that the money had been laid out, in the first in stance, in terms of the devise, as the School had been built, and the salary bad always been paid to the master when there was a master, but that a va cancy . was frequently allowed to happen for se veral yeas at a time. The salary, however, was al ways paid when there was a master. But they stated, that instead Of the other salary having been paid to the usher, as was devised, it had always been paid to the parish schoolmaster. This was a devia tion from the terms of the bequest, and was the more unnecessary, as about sixty - years afterwards Schools had been established in every Parish by the Legislature. Their stated that the third salary had also never been paid agreeably to the bequest. The overplus of the rents and profits of the land, after paying these three salaries, were then directed to be laid out for the relief of the poor of the Parish of Moffatt. A School was to be instituted for the edu cation of the poor, and the overplus, after paying the masters, was to go towards the relief of the poor. They stated that no part of this estate, or any money had ever been procured for a master for the children of the poor, and that they had never been able to see any account of the proceeds of the lands, aad what had been done with either the lands or the money. They added, that it was a great hardship to.the Pa rish to be deprived of this School. a s t ha ;Parish School was not by any means sufficient for the edu cation of the whole of the children. They stated !also, that the same benevolent person, a Dr. John stone, left in the same manner £l,OOO, for the pun; pose of giving bursaries or exhibitions to eight poor scholars of Moffat to the University of Edinburgh ; and they farther stated, that these exhibitions for ' poor scholars had never been given to the inhabitants of the Parish, though repeated applications had been made for them. That they had generally been be stowed, from motives of favour or affection, on per sons from other quarters. The Petitioners craved generally, that inquiry should be made into the sub ject matter of their Petition. Mr. WILLIAM DOUGLAS said no man could feel more than himself the value of the labours of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, with re spect to the education of the poor. As far, howeve r , as regarded the money bequeathed for the benefit of the people of Moffat, he did know from inquiry, that up to ,the present period the money had been con stantly paid for a school-master. With respect to the allegation regarding the bursers, he could only say, that young men had been regularly sent to the University of Edinburgh agreeably to the bequest. The successors of the Marquis of Annandale were persons who had always been conspicuous for every thing honourable, and particularly for their charities for objects of this nature, and he was certain it would turn out on inquiry that all the objects of the bequest had been most religiously attended to. Lord BINNING trusted, when it was considered that he was connected both by relationship and friend ship with the family implicated in the allegations contained in the Petition which had been presented by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, the House a ould excuse him for saying a few words on the subject. No charges had, indeed, been made 'directly against that family, but still charges wei'e indirectly made against them. Ile would venture to say, that there never was a set of all , gations of dd..: kind which were more likely to be woundless. Ile could not speak as to details, as he had never heard the subject mentioned before. The Honour able and Learned Gentleman would, in his opinion, have ex ercised a sounder discretion, had he waited till the arrival of the Honourable Member for DarnfrieFe shire (Admiral Sir W. Johnstone Hope), who was nearly related to the family in question, and acquain ted with its concerns, :tad who was shortly expected in town.—( /fear, hcar).—The speech of the Honour able and Learned Gentleman would t:ien have gone to the world accompaniei by some explanation. such an explanation might have been expected from the Honourable Member for Dumfries-shire. But he wished to observe that this was neither more nor lest than a question of misappropriation of property. It was a question, therefore, which properly belonged to a court of law. And the Honourable Gentleman kne v, that whatever delays might take place in the Court of Chancery in this country, it was not neces sary to go with this case to the Court of Chancery ; the Petitioners might have gone with it to the Court of Session ;—it was a question for that Court and not for the House. He did not ob'ect to the Petition lying en the table, but he certainly regretted the not waiting till the arrival of the Honous able Member for Dumfries-shire, from whom a satisfactory answer might have been expected. ear. W. DOUGLAS, in explanation, observed that two or three days ago the Honourable and Learne.l Geetheean had mentioned to him, that he had re ceived such a Petition, and bad asked bins it he could obtain any information respecting it, before he pre sen:ed it to the House? In. consequence, he had ap plied to persons from Moffat, in London, who told him all that they knew respecting it. They told him, that the Petition was signed by she Clergyman and most of the inhabitants of the parish. They told him that the salaries and allowances had been regularly paid, and that the money was left entirely at the dis posal and controul of the Annandale Family. He could only say, that he was sure, in exercising that discretion, the Family in question would always act in an honourable and upright manner. Mr. BROUGHAM said, the Honourable Member for Dumfries (Mr. W. Douglas) had partly answered for him the charge of the Noble Lord (Binning). He had not only communicated the Petition to that Ho nourable Gentleman, but he bad also communicated it to a Right Honourable Gentleman who was Mem. bee for Edinburgh (Mr. W. Dundas). That Right HonOurable Gentleman, after reading the Petition, had returned it to him, with an answer, that he was entirely unacquainted with the circumstances stated in it. He thought he had done quite enough to save him even from the possibility of being charged with any thing like unfairness—(Hear, hear, hear.) And now one word as to the duty which the Noble Lord had thought fit to prescribe to a Member, if he would avoid the charge of unfairness. They had just heard from the Noble Lord, that, as a Member, he was bound, before he presented this Petition, to know not only who the relations of the Nobleman alluded to in it were, and who were his representatives —nay, the Noble Lord even went so far as to say, he (Mr. Brougham) must have known the representative of that Nobleman, in so far as regarded his property, was the Honourable Member for Dumfries-shire, and also, that that Hon. Gentleman was on his way to town—(Laughter). It was certainly rather a novel doctrine, that Members of Parliament were not only to be obliged to become acquainted with all those duties which were of a public nature, but that they were, in addition to this, when they brought forward, a charge against any individual, they were bound' also to become acquainted with all the particulars of, his affairs, all his local and family concerns, and all the movements of all the members of his family ; and that, if these things were unknown to the sin-' fortunate Member, be was not only to be accused of ignorance, but also of unfairness—(Hear, hear.) The Petition was then ordered to lie on the table. BILL FOR TILE CARE OF HIS MAJESTY'S PERSON. The Order of the Day was read for its commit ment. The Bill passed the Committee, the House was resumed, and the Report received. On the Motion for the third reading to-morrow, Sir M. W. RIDLEY. objected to the Bill partially. However much he esteemed his Royal Highness the Duke of York, he was appteliensive that there was too much power vested in the same person. The ex tent of the patronage also would be immense, and could not fail exciting the jealousy of many Gentle men as well as that of Sir Matthew himself. For these reasons, he hoped the Chancellor of the Ex chequer would consent to postpone the third read ing till the House received the Report from the Com- mittee on the Windsor Establishment this Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER no objection to defer the third reading till Nlonday Sir M. W. RIDLEY, finding the third could not be postponed till the Report no u- • tioned came under the consideration of the said that he did not wish to press the postporernelt, and would therefore consent to its being read a t'lir t l time to-morrow. Mr. LAMBTON concurred is the ripinic.is 2d. vanced by the last Ilonourable Member. T!:e - and patronage were enormous to ct.:: . .tr2 in person. This was the grand point of differeN T tween the Gentlemen on tote Opposition side a 74 1 2,, Majesty's Ministers. It was creatirg an imp e ri" ie imperio. And yet it was impossible for his llnrd Highness to discharge his duty with pmper a e d z rity and effect, withottt he had the sole cuntrirtl , : the servants connected with the Esti!)list:rant, r 4 the power also of removing any of them wt:en kr:4 requisite.—The bill v. as then order:d to be r.• third time to-morrow. The CHANCELLOR of the EXC: pressed a hope that no objection would started on the third reading of the Bill PETITION FOR LEAVE TO FROMM?. A FRI Mr. LAMBTON moved for leave Petition from Mr. Frederick Thoevm returned for Barnstaple—the examine ted. pro foi ma, to the designation or tate of the sureties, he having been d( in in Essex-street, Strand. when he moved to Northumberland -street, &rani tioner therefore prayed for time to pmdr fir. HARVEY thought that the not to be received. The petitioner. ki surety now objected to had only two a bankrupt, ought not to have offere( capacity. Although he had renewed yet if the dividends to his creditors hi spectable (nearly twenty shillings in character could not stand very high: he was an objectionable person. T this view, was therefore an i ns ult to tl Mr. C. W. WI NNE recommend::! with the prayer of the Petition. TI Member was therecare for calling pre, manner to the Bar cif the House. As alluded to having been a bankrup!, no objection to him can that score, w' knowledged he had obtained his certit Mr. ABERCROMBIE ridiculed t: objecting to the surety, because he from one street in the Strand to anti Strand.--(Hear, I:ear.)—He could no that it was illiberal, and inconsistcat racter of the House, to treat the l'ctiti ner it had experienced from the la Member but one.—(lL-ar, haw.) 1 House would not permit such l'against the character of an iodiiida:ll, the Hououmble Member knzw, nn; worthy and meiitorions raan. Was to be indiscriminately given to every been unfortunre? It "v.-as Itnwortlty t' Represeotatives of the P.N;ple of Er hear, hear.) The ira;ividual Member had very improperly stigma, fered the penalties of the law ; and w! rained his certificate, he at once becat tionable member of society, hon-eves Pourable Gentleman might think to There were at this time many worthy . had been unfortunate, but who had al) covered themselves, and were high/ When the individual now so unwort! tained his certificate, he was immetl to exercise all his functions and pri other man ! He was perfectly qualifii • surety. In short, in the eye of the I well qualified as the Honourable G , self! —(Hear, hear, hear.) - _ Mr. BTURGES BOURNE was in Petition. If one person were !ejected Petitioner was ready to produce anotl the usual time of eight days ought to ' LAMBTON stated, that akin miners found reason to object to tin were so far in favour of the Petitioner, commended him to make application for time to amend the surety by the another. In glancing at the reception titioner received from an Honourable who had said that it was an instilt to ' hoped that Honourable Gentleman offended when he alleged that the himself had unfortunately been guilty erroneously attributed to the Yetitioaer. Mr. NVYNIN said, that he apprehended tion could not he received in its preNe; proper course for the Petitioner void( fot leave to have his Recognizance enlar The SPEAKER, on a further refe• prayer of the Petition, found that the also applied in that form. Wiiliams was then called to verified, as Agent to the Petitioner, the the Petition upon oath. The SPEAKER thought it right to was unnecessary to examine the Petiti as by the Act it was competent for an , quaintcd with the matter to be heard of the Petition. (in the motion of Mr. LAMBTON, received until Monday week to provide surety. The SPEAKER said that this erten was necessary to enable the Petitioner ' days' notice of the new surety. Mr. W 1 NN concurred in the propriet: this extension of time to the Petitioae' seemed no colourable pretext or culpable his case. Mr. S. BOURNE still recommended granting any departure from the fixed Mr. WYNN said, that if necessary, could be called—one of the Clerks _ this office. Mr. Williams said, the House had, he though' seen enough to justify the indulgence granted to 0 Petitioner. Mr. BANKES concurred in this opinion; and conversation here dropped. NISCZLLANIE.S. ME. LAWSON presented a l'eitical them ,ts i c i on tEiiQi ne u : lE t n e in d ld m. ah is r ..••a 6 . y r ad h . third port now me n . of the Hous e , postponement, ir.g rent! a tllird ie ripinior :s 2d. set. T! , .e .tr: in th ; sar , e ditfereD cr b e . ion side a7.d hi s an imperitni ie for his ltistd proper anti c . Die contro l !". Lblislimenr, ,em v: ter. team :d to bc r:.r2. e : . d to-nrirrinrb t I at four o'clock. RES(t IlErCant to b.ing np (or Thoriu m !, s hav:n t olt 1 r descripti on n i lescrPied as lir. had since re. mntl. Tte ' Ince fresh sint.tr Petit ion oagir: vowing that ti.e years azo ben ed him sn tha d his certifier:. tad not been re. the pound . ) his : and therefore I'hc Petition, is Lite House. ! a compliance doe llonoaratil: ()of in Ole anal .s to the prat there could be ellen i: was AO ideate. (near.) the absurdity et : Lad rer.i.aval her stret•t in tht of help tivo Ing o t with the tine ;11 the :Ist Ile wished t! :t irate I, Wl4O, fur 01''"..:t ihist be a vcrr such lalg.ra., y man who digni.y, as the !atized, had suf. ,vhen he tme an unexcer tr much the o the contrary. r characters v:1.4 afterwards recd- tly esteernedl— treated tiS• diately qua:iEza lvileges ae any ied to become law, he was AS ientleman favour of rd as surety, ti:e other ; thereftre be given. tough the Era- he surety, the! • that they r in to the ouse production sx n which the Pt. ble Gendenur .o the House, would not Hon. Merge • of what he h .CT. ended the ier.t form. I' : hi be, to ap,.. nlarged. eference to i• Petitioner v..... ) the Bar. P. the contents to state, that boner bin:sell— any Per!" 3 ' in verificauv , the Petitions 'avide a grope (tension of tiff" er to give et priety of givri iouer, as then gable neglect it ided caution !ti rule. } r, the Exarnilt :s usually hc•-• ad, he though' e granted to ti. piuiau ; and • 'tie 1 t -