Star. — London, England, 1804-02-28 00:00:00

JER hole iven. been .(A4 a Ng' ettoU or 14. • wile cktl 311 110 a / tall rri (of in( , * iouie •' 3W 8$ tbonld not be adapted in common proceedings, and abandoned on one of the yeateß in which the country and the entsftitution could be placed. The queßion, in his opinion, was not one of confidence in Minifiers. The information which that Hoare had realise to ex peti, had a right to demand, mould have been de rived from the be* and higheß authority, and not from thofe who give an interpretation of the Rate of bis Majelly's health, differing from that which has been given by his regular and acknowledged phyft. cians. The country would be Meer Milled when they faw Parliament duly and properly informed, and exercifing that difcretion which coaftionionally belongs to it. The quellionmastben pot on Sir Robert Lawley's motion, which was negatived without a divifion. ty so ry. He rivial • A C.V. '. .t 11 '•4 votverseas. Mr. T. GRENVILLE raid, that' if the pretest feßem was followed op, he had no great opinion of the (weer. of it. He was hindelf cal a Volunteer; ,but he felt that the fpirit already called forth, and to seamanly maaifefted by the nation, he maR con fider as an efential ingredient in t h e general Carey. XI that fpirit was properly kept up and encouraged, the country may be deemed Invulnerable, but pet& bly would not be fo upon the Oates hitherto died upon. If the Volunteers were compelled, their fpirit mug inevitably Baden, and the &Mance now to be expeaed from them would be unattainable. In his view of it, the pre eat Bill was obj eaionable, in the MI place , becaufe it changed the fereice from a voluntary to a compulfory &nice ; and, in the fe tend place, becaufe it was about to Mena i what, by the decifion of the Courts. was law already. What was hope before would be now altered to fear : and she Law Officers of the Crown, by =kill thenifelves the arbasers. and referving the decifion in all cafes, took speatihas what mould be the department of the Goveroment. There were feveral confiderations involetaHn die Neje& which he diould forbear to ensign tir after the MB went through a Commit tee, mad then. if the febleadliould net be taken up by Come Member more able than hitnfelf, and= fang more weight thai be could patella to, be move for a Committee of the whole Houle to take the whole of the Volunteer Syftene into their delibe cation, end evert what may be the Walt of the Houfe. He thought it a hardlitip - reareely to be en dured, that the Volinteers mould be fubjeli to cont• pulfion, after all the factifimaqlsey had fo patrioti. cally made. Mr. Secretary YORKI was atteseptiag to Medi the notice oldie Spenkele, when . I Lord OSSULS., with the dual candid.' lance on the smarm of a maiden &etch. was pee• mined to have the priority. He Cam d be withal . Wee permanent plan would be received to, that the need. Pity df chafe periodical references to Parliament, on the filled of the Volunteers, might be avoided. He obferved, that many obfervations which be had in tended to fubmit. had been anticipated by the Right Hon. Gentleman who preceded bins; and he adverted to a legal abfervation formerly made by the Attor ney-General. on the imam falba, into which the Volunteers had entered, no confideration baying been by them received for the duties they had undertaken to perform. With all its faults the fyfteoe Wane advantage; an acedfion of military men aie ob tained much beyond what could have been expeaed. in proportionto the limited population of there Masai. Mr. Secretag YORKE raid, that baying already fo often expreffed his fenttments on this fubjea to the Houk, he Mold not detain them for any length of time upon the pedant median, and the lerefo, as the speech of the Right Hon. Member who preceded bins famed to refer more to former bills, not now under difention. than to the propofition immediately before them. His will' was, that the sal may be futered to go into a Committee. where he should be happy to Gees to the lbggefiions of every Gentleman, aid to all in any improvement that might be peopled i for he did sot premed to recommend this as a cos. plea fyftens of Volunteer Laws. as he knew that per &Sion could not be obtained but by deliberation and experience. In the lail• Salon d Parliament, be fisted that the needfity would wife for reconfide ring the meafare before adopted, but be by no means pledged himfelf to bring forward any new meafure; what he propofed was an amendment and gradual improvement of the plan. During the rears, he bad confidered the matter with all the attention he was capable of bellowing on it, and the more he thought of it, the more be was convinced, that the left changes there were in it the better. What the pre fent Bill contained, be acknowledged to be reftriaed to two ample objeas, but each of them dentist :•• R, That exemptions fbould not be confidered as an uniform fyllem and, sdly, To remove doubts which were heretofore entertained. There were the princi pal features of the Bill, as every thing elfe relat ed to matters comparatively fuhordiaate. The only pall'age in the Right Honourable Gentleman's ( petal valtich applied immediately to the quellion. was the propriety of having the report of a preliminary Com mittee. He, however, confidered loch a thing to be trinecetfary, if the fyllcm was approved 06 and that it was fu be took for granted. after what had already palled in Parliament ; nor did be allow much weight to the eritieifmg now made upon it. He then went Into a detail of what has already been before the Public in former dikuirsons, namely. the principal tnfons city the Volunteer Syllem was originally re forted to. The leading reafon was, that the country, vi the preknt crifis, had occafion for greater exerti..ns thin ever had been before deemed neceffary, and tor • (I. Pnee beyond what the regular eflablifbmetit was t,ifric lent to fupply. He denied, however, his having e.; Lod that the Militia Force of the United King dom, now amounting to spo.oce men, could not be aulgmented, particularly in Ireland, but thatit wasnot t.4 1 ,1h1e of an angusentaticta equate to meet tbe dan ger. Asia the fyilem in general, it could sot be denied Out the repeated efts palled. and the thanks given to tite volunteers in the lad let tom, were, in every point 00 ',nil', a Parliamentary nmngnitioa tit. The o*aa t.t this rytiem were, to replace the clefs men, who would uherwife be required by the live -al defence aft; and he was of opinion that Inch multitudes of men could not be found ready loam forward as the emergency by any other than the Volunteer Syßesn. lapett to the eanaptioss. is *elk* Adt.dscy did 1114 el' end beyond the Sri ballot for the Militia, and tvation was made is the Army al fteferve ~..rat &mild be entitled to exemption but fetch as tv. re proved to have revisal, firmed the requifite autob., of days before the sad of just i but though • • , they Were to be vinare,' from the Bra, they were not to enjoy that privilege in the fubfequent ballot As to the impediment the meafure might be thought to offer to the regular recruiting. he was fatiafied that it would have quite a contrary effca ; for the Vo lunteers, fo far from being prevented from calling either in the Line or Militia, were rather enceirraged to do fo by the habits they acquired, and die pleature which men naturally took in theii appearance under aims. As inftances of the truth of this pofition, he would date, that of the St. George's Volonteen,com pofed of about too° men, ninety-two entered into the Navy. and 337 in the Regulars and the Militia. The Norwich Volunteers alto, confiding of only 300 men, it appeared from the returns, that twenty-five had entered into the regular ferrite during the prefent 1 1 War. The next point he bad to advert to was that of i tice noefination of the Officers in the Volunteer Cogs. i sehieh had been osefidered under the two .viewe the right, and the prudence of what bad been pap rued. la tepee to the firft, he never conceived Ikat they had, in general, any fuels right. He miaow*. 'edged that nranyof them had the tWto treomsisers4 their officers in the fire inflame, but not to renew them; or fill up any vacancies that me mice, • and well the raeresmoldition of their g deeds' depended for its %Peri on the dikes don off Lard Lieutenant, or the Secretary of State,: in layim,ik before his Majefty for his approbatiort. Kven'ftit allowance of recommendation was only ctinnived I*, oft acquiefeed in as far as regarded eettain.old C.prg, firth as the Light Houfe Artillery ; btit was not vatted in the concoeion or formation of any of the, modern!. Confidering the difcretion given to the fdperior depattments, the claim of nomination amounted to nothing, and the Volunteers themlidves pidft be convinced of the impolicy of their attempt ing to exetcife it, in cafe, for indanee, that they Mould be called out upon permanent duty. Looking; at all the official documents, he found that to be the floe of the cafe, and he came next to confider what had been Paid in rdpee to their arms. This charge he &mild answer by a comparifon between what was done at prefent and the quantity of arms that had been difirffsined upon former occafions. In *755. the time of the feven years war, the quantity of' , arms in the Tower was 36,998 fiend; in the year 775, it was 98.48111 ; in 1792 it was 0,06 ; and the quantity fappliedin the firft year oldie prefent war, 3Fe.346; fn .the firft three months were, toi,c94 t pied In the total during the war 364,800 hod of arms, exdofivirof pikes, &c. in addition to which 36,ocati *and in En g land. and, se.coo inlxelands had been fitraffited by e Volunteers themfelves. ,From this Reimport do auk may judge of the diligence. iteieitY of the Ordnance Department. And be came next &only to advert to what had been men tioneddthe induftry of Governmentin circulating the opinion given by the King's Attorney General, re /piling the right of Volunteers to refign at pleafure. That opinion he contended to be a legal deduEtion from the whole of the-laws, but waited to know what the Gentleman oppofite him would have Paid, had he neglected. for the intention of the Volutiteen, to have circulated that opinion after it had been given 1 though he would repeat his afenion. that be meant to propnfe that licence in the prefent Bill, even had the decifioa of the Court of King's Bench been dif. ferent from what it was. As to the permanent pay for eighty•five days ferrite, he acknowledged, that in die fiat infiance, he thought it right to retrain the ex penee of the payment of Adjutants. Whe ther.in that, be was right or wrong, the Houfe would decide. It was a different queftion, and en tirely belonging to the judgment of the Military De partment ; when the Bill went into a Committee, he hoped it would be duly . confidered ; but he was de• firnos that Gentlemen in their improvements would nut go too far ; nothing could be worfe than coer cion in fuch a fyftem, and he felt confident. accord ing to the principles upon which they were originally refarted to, the Volunteers would be at all times found ready to anfwer every call their country may make upon them. Mr. PITT did not think a queftion offuch extreme importance ought to be taken up upon narrow limits; for it was certainly competent to any Member, in his review of the ruble& to examine the whole of, and dike& bow far the fyftem was capable of anfwering the end pivoted. In a crifis which involved the dear& inters& of the country and the decilion of which had been fo long fufpended. he would not true to the declarations of any Minifters, but ref princi pally on this efential confederation—how much the firfl impulfe which the country had received may be made coeval with the fimilar Elate which gave it birth, and whether it would lad till we could obtain a peace that would be permanent. and founded on a much better fecority than the laft, which proved itfelf fo very delufive and evanefcent. He knew that it was impoffible to decide upon the merits of any fyftem, without bearing on thole other points of defence which regarded our Militia and Regular Force. He wnnld not, at fo late an hour, go into all the minute points of that inter fling lubjeet, but con • tent himfelf with fuch a general view as may, in future Rages, enable Gentlemen to determine whether we thould or not have moor& to that, which he mud pronounce to be a new rra, in order to lay alide all apprebentions of k vat and gigantic power, which openly threatened to involve us in all the mifery and defination which had already reached the greater pan of Europe. The attention of the Houle (hould he direeed to whether what had been already done for that purpofe could be rendered more effeftual ? It was not contended that the national volunteet force was every way deferable. but Come were of opinion that it may be differently framed and formed. But in the general Rate of this commercial nation, it was not to be difputed that any additional regular force we might rails would be infofficient for permanent defence. without the Volunteer aid of the country, or enforcing compulfnry fervice. The next objed to this was the mode and fyftem upon which fuch im• mediate aid wps conduaed. The Hook was to con fider whether, with an enemy alma at our gate. and, as he may fay, within (hot of us, we could at relent venture to change that fyftem which had already been adopted. In a few weeks, five or fix at the mod. we had to taped from all the !curets of intelligence he had any accefs to, and from the declarations of the Miuiders themfelves. who mud neceffanly have (opener means of information, the root tralwandons attack that could he made by the mot Ob.'s fury of ddperation. led on by the molt imetengs malice and pavan.% anintofity. • . . . . • . . From what the ?dialers averred. k was obvious that we could not now depend upon the efforts of an armed pesfantry. If then the danger was In for midable, oar duty was to confider of what was to be done in the interval I,and thotigh he did not think any thing hitherto adopted otberwife than far then of the vigour that ought to be difplayed on fuch an occaftort, yet, he had no doubt that, notwithflanding any accidental advantage that may occur in favour of the enemy. England had no reafini to dread the like of the coallioff. Under fuch circumflances, it would nut be kilicieqprbarely to repel the invaders. hut alto to leaveg i perpetua l example to pollerity of what this countif - could do, withnut alliance, and tingle handed, againa any foe that dared to men tee its defiroftion. If any effort was oegleated to Gotten the duration of the conteß. Parliament, the Govern ment, and the Nation would be highly culPable for it was not Sufficient for us to be lure of being victorious, when we know that the blood and valu able lives of Englifhmen were concerned in prevent ing the event from being at all procreated.— We Should prepare what he thought would be bed calculated to prevent the ficrifice of fo many valuable lives, bat refpeaing st the fame time the opinion of others, and without any particular at tachment to his own. In doing tl Gould care fully avoid mixing spy politics with fuch a queflion. Hitherto henna contend that (efficient had not :seen dyne for the permanent fakty of the nation. An ade quate inducement/sad not been held out for the Vo lunteers to acquire the ,dircipline that was neceffary; and fit another Rep of the BM be would fogg ed his Ideas, of that fulifißence. While on duty, whir - lamight to be provided for thole who easy have occafioniml it. He would now, however, remark in a cursory way, that twenty days was notoriously inadequate to ena- Witham to give that long attendance which ertfcipline required, if they were expeded to be any thiog Woe regulars. In the interval ethic/ insight occur ors few weeks before the attack would be made, it was high ly weeeffin that every endeavour' Gould bt ured to prevail on the Volunteers to make the Sell oh of it. and when ardent efforts were caned for, in E minds there would be found no refills:my. ;e n s; may be doaeletween this and the fominer, if Par liament trough' proper to give a moderate premium , for exaMn t Gel for inflame as a marching gal ter auni . 7l. a week for permanent Service. If the 6V- Should amount to one , two, or three hundred d pounds, there ought to be no reluctance worn the pude of the people Or the peefervation of their lives, their pooperty. and even their exifience. He then referred to a banner debate, in which an °Nation was made to his reload of alloWing Field Officers and Adjutants on pay td certain Corps, on the ground that it would be difornable to them ; but he did not fee how that obje6ion properly appli ed. when he limited the propolition to fuch as de manded it, and therefore could not be offended at their demand being acceded to. It was alto that fo many Field Officers could not be found or (pared from the regular Service; but that was no melba why they Skold not let as many as they could. If the plan was artful, it ought to be follow ed, and perhaps Captains, or even Litnitmanu of character, would be Sufficient to anfwer all the par poles narked. They might easily, on the coati, even without injury to the regular Service, he detached from Some near dißrid; great good might be done in the five or fix following weeks, and the s officers would be Rill upon their poll ; but he Should referee the full difenfraon of that topic to a future Rage. Another thing he Should propofe was, to hold oat (efficient in. &icemen' to the Volunteers to be punenal in attend ance on their difeipline, to obferve Silence while on drill, to keep thew anal clean, &c. Power Gould alto be given to his Majeßy to enforce what the law did not now admit of, fines for non attendance, not by dißrefs, but b; redraint for three days. or a Goner or longer time at difcretion. The Right Honourable Secretary (poke of doing as little as potable in alteration of the Volunteer. Syllem ; but as to all that he propofed, they were themfelees perfeely fenfible of the neceffity, and would not, as Englifltmen, for ufeful redrsints, defers the ob jet% for which they affociated. As to the nomina tion of officers by the Corps. he was ready to allow that it was only nominal, and retied principally with the Lord Lieutenants and the canines of the Crown. Yethe mutt confefs, iftheprivates were not fit to Domi nate, it feemed to him that the Commanding Officers were lets fo ; but as to what had yet happened, it only ibewed thofe occafiooal capricet, which mull always be expelled from fuch immenfe bodies of men. It was indeed, true. that the Volunteers narrowed the fyllem of recruiting for the Regulars. Militia, both permanent and fupplem ental. as alto the Army of Referee; but by modifications, which would fupprefs the pernicious fyflem of Crimping, ate. he thought means might be found to remedy that.as well as the deflrueive competition in bounties between the different cervices. The population of the United Kingdom was Sufficient to Supply an ample refouree of the regular force which mull in future be kept to meet that power with which She Gould war eter nally, by a moderate bounty in time of peace, and an arrangement, the outlines of which he then developed ; but in which we think it Intoned:try at this time to follow him, as he engaged to proprle his plan in detail on a future occalion. He knew, lie Said, that he was not taking what may be confidered as a popular ground, but a view to popu larity never influenced him in the performance of a public duty. We mull have a great regular army, if we wished to be powerful, and we mull be power ful, if we wished to preferve our prefent national rank and Ration in the world. The people would, no doubt, be thankful to PROVIDINCI for the means and meafures which would preferve to them the dif ference between the moil fplendid and the moll de• graded and calamitous fituation. He hoped. that, on conficieratinn, no prejudice or narrow view to economy would prevent the Houk from attending to that plan of fortification in vulnerable points, which was recommended by Officers of great military (kill and experience. The efforts made for naval defence in the prefent war were by no means commtnforate with what had been done with unequal means during the lag. He did not fay this from prejudice to any man whatever. bat if the day Should occur in which any point of onr toad Should be found undefended. however painful the nth may be to him perfonallr, a permanent duty would require to demand that Se vere refponlibility which they took upon thernklees. The country looked not only to its gallium, but its ':....c.._.- "•=" • 1... ' 4 glory ; and what he fitid calif To IRS say, sot • of menace, hut of atbnonition. • t'• To • t s. • * • Mr. WIND HA M olifereed. thalftl=o/ 1 /i Milk - means of defence fur the euentry.* . fieteirary.;. the Houfe fhculd Wan is view to-gbartatainft fad ' cure as well as prelate danger. It had been raid that . the Volunteer Syßem did out prevent merillom go. ing into the army, but certainly tenclfd ur. Withhold , them from the Army of Referve, which was a prior eipal fotoce for the foPPIT of the army. Hostess: urgent the calling danger might be, it was woe& , to overlook the danger of the next year or the yea*. after. Why, theietore, perlift in' nuafures whieb, mutt defiroy the recruiting of the army, and ate create an evil, which all the difciptine of the Wha . teers never could compenfate ? He thought elite ~ armed peafants, though not tfained to hatmlion ex- • ereife, would make a very ufeful deftription of force. , If one intelligent officer was appointed to every twen• .: ty men, they might be enspinyed with great itd 7 s. ) vantage. to annoy the enemy in various wa s.-•• i, Such a force would in time become excellent :,• infantry. He contended, that if the Volunteer .t , was continued. with all the exemptions. it met s , continued at the expiate of counteracting the ~ 1 military fyftem of the countity. It was abler to kr , and flyers on inflames of Volunteers entering into the • army '.. . that mull be the cafe ; for it was certainly one • adianta of the Oben, that it tended to create a min *it I and face Arndt the total tar e of the • gdom time VolunteeF . S, it was not t i fi ng that Many of the recruits obi fined by the r *ere of that dettriptitni. Thit teemed to be an f oseat of the fink kind as that which had . Wei bold set with Vets" to the infurreeios in Iteliod.--Itrwaa : Laid that 111 the Rebels were Roman Catheliiiet fi,, -, Lae which* wai indeed moll likely to be col. late& fine[ the greater part of the population dli tansy/ wete Ron= Catholics. There lyres essitetsto , fidektuati wjth regard to the Volunteer Corps which * , ought never to be overlooked, and that was. cheery 1 fertaas danger which was to he from a t body fo little [ Ender military colt loa d beard. though from report only, the circembinces. tda 411 turbos* of a very extraordinary nature:which toolt 1 place at Chefier. He would ark, whether a Volunteer" Corps dal not alembic there in confrquenee of oar. of their number being preyed, and threaten to break,. open the jail if he was not tit at liberty—sad wise- : ther the Magibrites did not give ap the meta, under the apprehenfion that the jail would be broke into, and an the pawners fet at liberty ?—He would alto elk, whether any legal punintinent bad been the contiguous of this outrage—(a cry of Hear ! Hear I)—Let not Gentlemen repro& that what he had faid proceeded from any fpirat of kyr . lily. or any particular with to draw down vengeance os the individuals in qattlion : on the contrary, h.' was ready to admit that chore men had tufted under a tpirit which he confidered generous ; but every one acquainted with the theory of lawn, knew that men were frequently punitive!, not for the motives of their anions, but for the contecpsences of du& anions. He &odd only fay, that whatever eked be done in the mink cafe, in flosnareates the pa- . ointment bad been hanging. The Houk would rr coned a riot which took place tome years ago t not againft a jail, not againft a hoofs under the Lag's protection; but sputa a honk in which crimpthe moll unjub and befell of crimes. was prae i fed. Is would be recolleffed that a man was tried and . banged for inbigating the populace to attack that' honfe. He could - not help being furpfited to find that all perfons who, in the cafe he alluded to, were the loudell in their declamations on the nceeinty of prr (erring the peace of fociety, ghouls, in the prefers cafe, which waster more auctions, be entirely film. He could conceive this to be (siting to nothing elf. but that the Volunteers had obtained a 'leafy over the Right Hon. Gentleman. The conditution of this body was of a nature which could nut fail to' excite great alarm in every reffefting mind. It was preg nant with the • ma 'dangerous confequencei. in the; cafe of a fcarcity. or even on the event of a General Eleniqn. He would alit, whether it might not hap; pen that the Volunteers would yet up Candidates of their own ? The general role of fending the raker, out of a town could not be applied to them—for that would be to fed the lowa eat of 4141 It Wilkes held out that this fyilem was calculated to refolve at lift into a regular and well difciplined force. It was Paid that men would firft be Volunteers, then Mi. lids, and then Troop of the Line. This means of obtaining a regular force. reminded him of the pro grefs which anatomißs riefcribe to take place in of fiScation. There was firs siseadiraw, then cartilage. and tall oral! Be.o It was erroneoufly fuppofed. that the Volunteer Syftens tended to create a military fpirit in the country ; but that was a millake, a mi litary fpirit was to be preduced, net by having a numerous force, but by having an army as excellent as pollible. In France, and thole countries moil re markable for military chary:ter, it was not the fart that every man was a !Adige. Lord CASTI.EREAGH fupported the Bill. He quoted the opinion of Dutneurier in praife of the Britith Volunteers, that General having declared that he confidered them in every refpelt as efficient a defctiption of force rs that with which he drove the combined armies out of France. and gained the battle of Jemappe. The rioters of Chatter had. his Lorillhip Rated, been difiniti,nl from their corps, and the Attorney General had been dirsaed to inflittite a criminal profecution ag tind them.— His Lordfhip concluded with a comparative view of the force or the navy at the indent mumeet, and at different periods of the late war. The general re. fult was. that at prelent we had of (hips of the line. frigates, and (loops at t. folic manned and in retro:es whereas, in tl.e comfit of the late war we had not an equal naval force until fu late as 1795. To this de. femiptien of force were to be added twenty fail fur. ni(hed by the Eart India Company, and ten fail Rs timed by the Trir.ity Houle at the month of the Thames. The finall craft in anual fervice on the coatis of Brits a, am-Jollied to 6cja ; that on the coati of Ireland to ;37 ;‘i hi-.h, with 373 now arm ing, would atigrn,n; i itr flotilla 1112 weals below the rate i f nor; s. The number of frames; actually muttered on board cur fleet contilleJ ofor7.coa, and thrt of the marines to I 1.973.—1 t welds( third year of the late war brit:or:the kansen and swings raagasill the carne humh.r. Mr. PITT explained.—Meet coos ntlesidell we old be necefery before be was relished us saw point in qacilioa. The anagaiiias