Star. — London, England, 1819-12-21 00:00:00

that, person, but he did not ishment proposed to be ap , would apply to a second her of trials were set down, Li been, to take place one )t to such a. case that the nt was to be applied, but it, !ual, who having been tried offence after conviction.— nder all circumstances, he unjust infringement of. the When it was said that an ell be imposed, he would Terence between a measure House, and that which might ritings of Mr. Locke, the ney, and many of the most ?sent possessed ? When the ntry we:e such as to present was the duty of Parliament is his firm opinion that they the present Bill, for it be try to oppose the attempts tgress for the last 26 or 27 :.;onstitution and the Govern i the most 11 igitious Lbels to . people. These attempts, it hied. The great majority of ieved to be sound—( Hear, he efforts of the disaffected , and great mischiefs had re- ugh no man could more re bad taken place than he did; lore detest the blasphemous issued from the Press, still fiat the House should pause measure now before them, ould essentially alter the law )ne of the great safeguards of flagrant abuse of a right was of tyranny in rulers. They a friends of freedom who sti nsubordination, :nid were, in of those whose cause they r encouraged the dissemination seditious writings, and were, ted by a wish to rise through le ruins of the country, to al s, however, the duty of that away by the panic of the vss such evils, by adopting as to be fatal to that liberty the boast of Englishmen.— e Gentleman had spoken of ba mmon punishment in the good tution, which good old times of the Stuarts, he (Mr. Graham) hat banishment was a punish e law of England. To Scot ad once been known, and cer . period it had been known to fhe mistook not, to the law of aishment he objected on account re on different individuals. To milder, to the poor man a se ,n transportation. A poor man out and maintained at the pub pped of all, and banished and reign shore, what could he do :o get bread, or die to disgrace ar, hear). He disapproved of to search the premises of a per bel. He would neither consent tld be exposed to a search by y day for newspapers or squibs. ect to the principle of imposin tap publications, but he fe vs would be found in the way ; and under the new system ior man would find an obstacle. cation of his seetiments on many t interesting to all men. He con it to be his Intention to give his against the present Bill, as well ure for punishing the offence of thought, that instead of its being it was a great objection to the 1 the printer and publisher, while y, the author, was not toeched was generally the itteocent and, ent of the author, and therefore ontrary to common sense, and to eof that Houte. It was only in printer, on being brought before ng up the author of an offensive itely liberated, while the author He objected to the Bill generally. pposed the Bill. it introduced anovation into the whole system - b 1.-ru ated the Press of England. re heard such doctrines laid down al been delivered by a Learned !ember for . Somersetshire, iindivi is carried the more weight as they to either of the two p j artjes into ;as divided, and held, ps it were, own hands, which they might d. If such doctrines us these were he. popular branch of Vie House once abdicate its (minims, and be managed as his Itiojesty's In such a case it was usf.l 7 s to: )r he and his fiieads would he . adow, after they had lost the sub-: ould call upon the House, if it common with the People, to pause : heir sanction to these Bills. Ile , attention exclusively to the News r Bill, which was one of the molt he measures, as it introduced a he law, a principle which, in his )an imprimatur. Indeed, it wopld le purposes coeternplated, if it did ceercion; awl though it , and tlioagli it should tend to the viduals, still it WAS not ade9uate iof the evil. It inflicted . pupish-, ,d shacklas which no sev ! ectiOle ed, when entering on his proTes er have to eneoentez. 4fteentalr,ing :rvations on the Bill, the Learomd3 the attention of tbe , House particu which he thought most materitl. clause which appowered a single sary.to . pre's such.circninstances had already ' i lil ac kstone, tics, wotte ianyikehiNu. power? sane mai if A vr, had n'o Sustiee of Peace to execnte some of its, provisiotts.-e. !The duties of Magistrates were already strfficiently arduous, bat now they were to be called on to search for arms, to attend Public Meetings ; armed them selves, and with an armed levy, they were to search ,houses, where they spspected libels to be. concealed ; in. short, they were called upon to undertake such various and important duties as no Gentleman would make himself responsible for without being paid a salary. And then what was to become of all those splendid eulogies which had been passed upon the unpaid Magistracy of . ffngland ?—(Hear). True, their powers were increased, but so also was their responsibility ; and he,deirbted whether Magistrates would be easily found' whe would put these powers in practice. if the House would but consider what they had' aiready -done, assuredly they would pause before they consented to such a Bill as this. They had given such a power for the suppression of Pub lic Meetings as was almost equivalent to the annihi lation of them. They had given a power to seize arms by day or night, and they had made a great, and he was ready to allow, in some degree, a useful alteration in the law which enahled the Crown to bring defendants speedily to trial—(Hear, hear) — he was not disposed altogether to admit the ne cessity for this alteration, as it affected the charac ters of ,the Juries of England— (Hear, /rear, hear). They were always found to discharge their duty, whether the trial followed the offence sooner or later.' Some imputation was thrown out upon the difference , of the verdicts in the cases of Hone and Carlile ,:, but no man who had any feelihg, and any regard tor I truth, would say, that because Hone was acquitted by one Jury, Carlile should have been acquitted by another. The Juries had done enough to shew that, in their opinion, blasphemy was an offence against the laws of England, and that they were determined to . put it down by their verdicts. They proved the value of that most fortunate feature in the jdrispru dence of this country—the Trial Ly Jury, and that if there was any thing to which the sinking liberties: of the country could look up for protection, it was to an English Court of Justice. Such a tribunal would be telt to be peculiarly precious in times like the present. He would not speak of all the violence which had been committed at Manchester, nor of the wounds which, had been inflicted there—wounds ,which were nothing in comparison to the wound which was given to the Constitution. But he had ao doubt that the Authorities, on that day, acted un der instructions from the Ministers of the Crown. Hence the speedy expression of thanks which was conveyed to the Magistrates, hence the suppression lof all attempts at inquiry ; for it was idle to talk of Juries when the Constitution was violated.- Whether the Meeting was legal or illegal, it mattered not; enough had occurred to strew that the Magistrates who acted on that day should be stripped of their commissions, and that those who presided at the Home Department should be impeached—(Hear). As to the Bill before the House, he protested against the principle of securities. It was equivalent to an iwynatatur, for it was as much as to call on a man to say, and that too where the offence was undefined, " If I do violate the law, here is my friend, who will lea, for me whatever fines I may incur." What was this but demanding a pledge previous to publication? and, therefore, it was a preliminary restraint to such an extent as was hitherto unknown to the law. Gen tlemen referred to the Star Chamber, and to the times of Charles 11. They were at least consistent in referring to those times, because such measures as these would inevitably lead to times like them. But if the object of Government were to get by these means a Press subservient to their views, it was one of the wildest wishes that ever entered the human breast. If that was not their object, then assuredly it was not worth their while, considering the sureties required were so small, to press such an innovation against the Constitution. They might, with their majorities, indeed, succeed in carrying their mea sures, but they might also one day be brought to feel that they had gone too far--(Hear, hear 1)-- They were proceeding exactly in that course which would ultimately turn against them those who at ! lament were neutral, and strengthen the hands of those who were opposed to them. Both the Acts went on with the same preamble, namely, that the present laws were insufficient. 'This he denied to be true—they were sufficient for all the pur poses of justice, unless, indeed, it was thought 'juttiee to apply the dagger at once to the neck of the offender. It was supposed by some that banishment was actually necessary to be intro duced into the gill in order to render it effectual. But was this the case in France ? Would it be the case in England ? Vas it not, on the contrary, likely that persons banished from Englind might be induced to send into the country writings of an in flammatory descriptive, when they would find paper and the materials of printing cheaper on the Conti nent than they could at home ? Was not the Re volution in Prance in a great measure attributed to works which had been prohibited there, and whose au thors had been banished ? So long as the market was open, a supple would be seat to it, and the article itould be rendered more valuable by the stimulous which such prohibitions would give to curiosity -- Wear, hear). In every point . of view, he thought 'that all that had been already done, was all that ought to be demanded. He implored the House to consider whether enough had not been done to sup press the imminent danget ? He implored them to stop srrhere they v.ere s and not to push themselves farther into a separation Evens the mass of the Peo ple, whom it was the duty of the House to protect — (Hear, hear). Mr. BANKES denied that enough was done, until : these Bills • - - - the ' .quillity of i to, he thou), C istituti 1 ot on. ,most importani far in its - 36 / 4 w tf said .21) "'"Pi & Chamber . Yet, it * 4 41" 11 g_, n cl v .nr th3t . t.. 12 °11/ °PI Irie(iuNiS,4 o 2 tr' ' th " e wli ns in ui e a reg not ul h: 44" r 14 bP pg 4F the ip at4 a7 P as t 'Ordinances into Parliameut...- 7 (liirirt • 41 this matter, which was said to fundamentAii the liberty of England, it was curiou' s to observe, that althoughin the Bill of- Rights the Liberties of the People were asserted, not one word was said about the Liberty of the Press. At the time o£ the Revo lution, there was a Censorship upon the Press, of the most severe kind; yet it was not complained An Act had been in existence from the reign of Charles the Second, which established a Censorship ; and this Act having expired, a Bill was parsed b y the House of Lords, in 1698, conferring . similar re straints upon the Press, though certainly it was after wards negatived, by the Commons—(Hear, At that time the Government, and let it be remem bered that it was a Whig Government, did what they could to have the Bill passed. That, too, was a Go vernment whicb was mainly instrumental in bringing about the Itevillotion. The restraints to which he alluded went to prohibit the publication of any thing heretical, or which opposed the religion of the coons try, and also every thing which would bring scandal upon the establishments of Church or State. This was certainly going much farther than the Bill now before the House. The former Bill prohibited the printing any thing with regard to the history ciz' science of the country, without a license of one kind or another. It would seem to have been the object of(the framers of that Bill to prevent free discussion on any subject. It required even the printer of a bal— lad to affix his name to it, and none- were allowed to cast types without giving previous notice.— . The number of printers was limited. New persons were prevented from going into the trade until the then existing number of the then master-printers was reduced to 20; and the same provision was extended to letter founders until the number was reduced to four. The number of apprentices was limited to three for each master; and the new persons coming into the trade were to be nominated by the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of London. . Constables were also empowered to search suspected shops, at whatever time they thought fit. The punishment for the first offence was taking away from the offender the right to exercise the trade for three years; and for the second offence the punishment was perpetual disability to pursue the trade. The Bill referred to all books printed since 1662. He did not refer to the former Bill for the purpose of approving of its pro visions, but fir sheaving what was the spirit of the Government with regard to the Press at a period to which so many reference's had been made in support of its liberty—(Hear, hear).—But whether the mea sures of tormer times were good or bad, it was not much to the present question. Was it possible that the House would permit, that such volumes of blas phemy and immorality should be diffused among the people as had been for the last four years in circula tion ? No property was safe, no Government could be secure, so long as they were subject to the attacks of every despicable writer who wished to scatter his poison abroad. And here he could not help saying, that the House itself had contributed in some degree to the evils complained of. He doubted very much of the prudence of diffusing education - so extensively as it was done among the lower orders—(Rear). --s It led to a state of society which our ancestors never' contemplated. If it made men capable of good, it also made them capable of excessive evil ; and in such_ a case, it was essentially necessary, since the People were so generally taught to read, to take care what should be laid before them. This state of so ciety was new, and required new measures to regu late it. If, indeed, he had any doubt of this - measure at all, it was, that it did not go far enough !--(Hear, hear, front the Opposition). For his part, he was dis posed to go further, and. he believed it would be, found necessary, still to adopt stronger measures with I regard to the Press,- than any which •they had yet . considered. Mr. ABERCROMBIE expressed his regret that the Honourable Gentleman had addressed such a speech as that just now delivered,. to such an assem bly as the present. It would have been better suited to a Meeting of Radicals—so extravagant was it in its doctrines, so violent in its precedents—( Hear). — It was admitted that it was of no advantage to the Liberty of the Press to refer to antecedent periods; nor was it necessary, unless the Honourable Gentle man had forgotten what the House had, in his own' time, done for the extension of that liberty. • As to the Honourable Gentleman's observations upon edus cation, it was a great consolation to him to know that whatever efforts that Honourable Gentleman might make, they were not very likely to impede the pro gress of that general blessing l—(Hear, hear, hear). The Honourable Gentleman was pleased to inform ,the House of what passed at former periods, with re gard to the Press. His arguments, if they proved any thing, proved too much; for by similar references he would deprive us of the Habeas Corpus .Act, and indeed many of the most important rights which were now enjoyed. If his doctrines were true, then every writer was ignorant from whom he (Mr. Aber crombie) had learned his lessons on the Constitution. He had liprned that it was one of the great virtues of the British Constitution, that it was the result of the a experience of ages.. But where was the ground for boasting of this experience, if, when 'a right was spokeikof which had beep enjoyed for a . .houdred /OM it was competent to the Honourable Member to turn round and say, that right and ex perience signified nothing, when compared with pre. cedents--(Hear, hear). His argument was—you talk of enieyiog a certain right, uow 1 can shew youe pe riod in our histoyy when this right was not-enjoyed, thus faro he Ira* 'Stan neeanrbound:to irgveein ibex ' "-- conclusion drawn by the Noble Liad, that the "law ~ ought to he altered. .lie had not yet been coeviinchd, in no argument bad. been addu'ced to proverhax the existing laws were.inadequate: He never could he brought to believe that Juries would not do their duty. when called upon; or that they would refuie to convict the libeller and the blasphemer; and if this could not be shewn, a single step. ought not to be taken cn such a principle of legislation as the present.. By enacting such a •measure, they must suppose that there was a defect not in the legislation, but in the administration. of the law, and they were acting hostile to the liberties of the People. The Case of Mr. Hone could not be advanced as a ground for the present measure ; for his acquittal could not be said to have given encouragement to libellers; • they were encouraged, because no attempt was made - to bring any. of them to justice, with that prompti tude which ought to have been used. Therefore; when he considered that the law of the country ha been suffered to remain inoperative for so tong a time, he must deny that there was any necessity for a new law. Most of the infanaoas publieitiOns, to which he alluded, were of modern data, and the im-, punity with which they were suffered to go on;gave them encouragement. Besides, the parties sending them forth, made money by them; ":and that . wsts- a sufficient inducement, when punisluilitat t appea_te!A. he remote and undertaie ( fietirs ifrity)----4 Wfpl therefore give the Bilt his decided , ; ' Mr. BENNET said,' be felt it necessar y 6; Inalat a few observations,' chiefly on account or T hat. - h I fallen from did ItflOnourible Neinber rm . cFri. Cad (Mr. Bankes ) . 'Abtrming of were the proylliOns o - the present measure, he must saj, that tt was not 0, alarming as the principles just acriaaied by pk Honourable Gentleman—(llcar, heao,l' L'-•-:icoi . he kq- lieved; that ever vincethe timel'whentheliWtqu'occit by that . illmourahle Gentleman had been passed, " ntp, such un constitutional doctrines as these were held foith.• The gonOurable qemleman miihr•have gone . back to other perlods of °et-history; and found 301 worse ' laws i n those to which be alluded. lit. would have found numerous esamplesi of tiranny in the time of the Tudors; and by refining to the hie= . tory of Henry VIII. he would fi nd that that King ordered his own edicts to have the force of laws,. without the authority of Parliament. But. r t one of those cases could be quoted as precedents to jtuftify such measures as were now brought forWird by Mi nisters. In every part of the Honourable Gentle:pa:l'i • speech, there appeared to be a lurking . principle that was hostile to the liberties of the People. The Hon., Gentleman would suppress the diffusion of knOw ledge—he hated the practice of educating the 4'41- dren of the poor ; he would not allow their minds to be enlightened; and he might go farther than this, and say, that he hated to see the poor instructed in morality and religion : for how was it possible for the poor to be moral and religious without educairion?— The Hon. Gentleman might, in the neighbourhood of the place which he represented, see his own prin ciple falsified ; for many hundreds of the children of the poor were educated there, and the instruction, they. received produced the best possible effect upon their morals. Ilekitew very. well that attempts were, made, in various quarters, to check the progresi a education ; but he never before heard it asserted, that the education of the poor was an evil. It was!im possible for him to hear doctrines so fatal to the hap- . piness of the poor, as those promulgated by the lion. Gentleman, without rising tt• resist and express his abhorrence of them. He never could have believed that a Member of that House could have felt a wish to take away from the poor that which - the King of • this country, in his generous benevolence for the . happiness of his People, was Always anxious that they should possess : for our gracious Sovereign had been often heard to express a wish that every poor mania his kingdom might be able to read his Bible I (Hea r). Yet, a ft er-inch a sentiment uttered by the Sovereign,. rwhit must be thought of the Member of that House who wished to shut out from the poor the g nat inlet to the knowledge of religion?—(Henr).-- - The great question now before the House was, what was thee.- tent of the evil they were providing against? Redid not deny that many blasphemous and seditious publi cations had been sent forth to the Public ; but he must declare, that these publications were not of peaces-. tent in their circulation. • He knew of one puhliCa tion, of which IWO numbers were circulated at one time in a certain number of towns ; and he coed as sure the House, that the moment the People saw tliat the paper contained blasphemous matter, the circn lation was immediately checked ; not one of those. 1500 were any More allowed to be circulated in that district. It had been stated, that the acquittal •of Mr. Hone gave encouragement to blasphemous pub lications. This he denied ; for the acquittal of far., Hone took place because he shewed, to the satistac tion of the Jury, that the intention of blasphemy did not exist in his mind, and not from any want of hfrrh : For in the minds of the Jury against blasphemy. Mr, Bone clearly shewed, that the most learned and pious lien in the country had • conveyed political semi =tents in the shape of parodies upon Scripture. 13e .(Mr. 'Bennett) contended, that a fouler libel nevp, was uttered against man, than that of saying th A t the Juries protected Mr. Hone, and 'that, after. his. kiequittal, he was protected by several persons who ere favourable to blasphemy—(Neer, Aeari).-,--; 'w 'The very reverse was the case; and no man could,hn ' snore independent or honourable than those to whom he alluded—(Hear, heir). He should now come to the clause in the Bill for laying a stamp duty imp:- t:tin publications, To this hie objected, locesitsk it I would go to deprive the pOor of one great source of Ittial; igitatical, and religious instruction, , which • - -- - . • ' - ''..... Oublications ~--- .1N Khs denied tnat enougn was %PAW, WatAa ... w-4—,--,, _____ _ ... is should be passed, for restoring the tran- nod us our history when this right was aot.enjoyed, moral, instoncal, ono rymisiosis 111b1.11MAVAII, II . ILUVAI )f the country. The measures already agreed erzo, you shonld.aot enjoy it now— { iegr,. hear).— was generally conveyed to them in publications qt ' 'ought essential to the preservation of the fk regretted extremely to hear t he , llononrableGen- this kind. 10;0 would no! prevent the 'sole of tbe tion. But the House had now to do with the ; demon' say the House hid net *One far enough. reßst olsje . ctaWt publicatiOsiswoithi not op — portant of all. The Press had now gone so He (Mr. Abercrombie) apprehended only that they (Obetts Re4sster, which sold more when it, hpitl is power producing evil, tisat4t was neces- had already gone a greatiealtoo far, and he appre- sfamlithanli did without one; besides, tio . 4 ,re,„„, it from esertiong that power, should hended,it the more strongly since he had heard the would gable a ~triuch roster taci ) ity,to ciri • , cpmscances again occur, as those which they actilioralile,Qtatleatan, OS *II a phrase ; foi s t r i *cease Pvcrs 1!9p14 'then tray* rapicay ~• ady to complain of—afear, henr). : —When lustrated an ozpreosion of thallobleLords to . • j the country.by means of the Post-Oace: >tie, oriinyof the pther accredited ',outbori-' he was not inclined before to atto . th muc h.impoat,-; clause to which li . ! ,obje i cted, , Wartliat of .. ~,.. Pte UpOn,the AtibjeFt ,qf AO gress,..lo4 ,thei j ante . . ~..,fhe Noble l o ord 5 „,, / , 14 they to g .. give security fb :the eitinsecidediety, ',them it.would losve.gaiseil.sisth onaissatrab not t uitend to 14; s4y e ar 444 7., r . sae they ,pubh.lold..hfo'iu,o4,t.iyfqpiil 4 4 054, . i , . Thillieuespopers woo not toothless& is duo words, he lama, .were : li.O.lrrpits 4 t., .skp.r.tip .:41140Sri°1 tanner formerly, as rke i y wete tiotr. ;in hti they were not without dieiripeisawit-ALlfeerr,:keer . agy Jo .. .71e .. t . inie. i s t lif.ul t ,n - e e.vllto i ht re ( PCocd *444 04 ' - e Oilimd iiicti• I. tO -.l o lle-abi s c*94, _ it) .kiz: ~ A is - t, . . : 1 . , : . ' , 44ciRie pficsigitimalgiii•be p s4 p j a m e:m , l a* .: , Irtigt !Bei,. .1: • ! ; c lic .t yp • - . 4 ,1,1 .1. 419 1Y.0 • no objection to establish , o4hOse MO NUS' . •. i t 3 9 1 . VAI L -' ... '. 4 Y4 1 : 1 ' A a .te e I F i t igl -lk-'' ' ' s • i . S - 7 0 1:4 1 10** • E C • 1 .~ ■ 'ii . ,I