The Express. — London, England, 1850-03-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAY, MARCH 8. like Loan Commute% took bleu= at 6 o'clock. JOURNEYMEN TAILORS IN LONDON. The Bari el MOUNTCASHELL pvo seine, ea basil he of Rad Weldemme, that ea y, the 14th Met , =aid draw the =satin of the home to the elate of the jentmetymens tailors in Landon. DISEASED SHEEP. 'TM Duke of RICHMOND win= to draw the atemilme lithe g =erase= to the het that amnia tonna dowel hood with .mall-pox had bow anted ; @cooked bees son am& eft= sold to defray the em enem The ere was OP paned is the ailleepapsre wi baying bees brought am= thie Merest= of the City antkoritim at the dassiowbemis. Me should after lillateS MOWS be the &melamine of • wiest ectamittse M ermaiden the operation of the law pormilling the =portal= of sheep and ea' tie. BANKRUPT LAW CONSOLIDATION BILL. Lord BROUGHAM postponed the farther coadderation Mikis bill kw six weeks. NATIONAL EDUCATION. The Marquis ef LANSDOWNE laid ea the tattle seen& raw= oonneen with the educating queries. sad men- Maned that he had received a letter from Mr. Talbot, isa a statement which he, Lord Lansdown e . had made rt e h a resurse of the debate • few nights tam Unobserve d's= en that moss= were booed ea the moral Of Mr. Talbet's in at the meeting at Willle's Roma, whisk bad Remand in the Times aad this Guardian new.papers, sad whether Mese noires were sweet or not it was equally im ports= that the miettatowasats contained is th eta woul d be eentradimed, es they had boss publashed muse Mr. Talbot's seam. PARTY PROCESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the order of the day lee the third reedlag of this bill. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH mond an amendment en the seend ad Mini classes, by tang out the words that it shall sad may be lawful for any magistrate to pio n= le say plena when ea unleerhal assembly is about to tithe place, "- de., sad sabnisting " that it shall be Intel Way insaistrate," do.—his object =lag to leave it optional le the magistrate, and not compulsory. The LORD CHANCELLOR objeeted to the proposed alteration. It was left optional to the magistrate whether or sot ha should interfere by force to disponi the meeting, be the• pe ng was decl ar he mighte du so la t hare the means; but whet ease meetinwful, thole present were =der = obligation to disperser, sod if they refused they might afterwards be prosecuted sad punished. Len STANLEY objected to the wording of the ball as MOM ambiguous and calculated 1) mislead the magistrates. Lord CAMPBELL raid that the bill was verbatim et diterofin the mime as had bees introduced by the noble lord himself when he was Secretary for Inland, and which had lima the law of the land for many a hag year. The asseadment was this withdrawn. Len BROUGHAM was about to eddy= • proposition to the arable and illustrious duke (of Welliegton) with reference M the amendment of which he tad given notice,namely, dist so persons should be allowed to carry arms In Ireland but for • lawful pontos-. He thought the amendment quite right, hat it ought to De made the subject of a upstate bill, and is should then bare his support. The noble duke was perhaps aware that it was iMpartent the bill should pass Won the 17th Inst., • day on which many processions were likely to take place. The Duke of WELLINGTON, in reference to the clause of which be had gives notice, ems, " And for the more effec tual prevention of all assemblages of persons in Inland, =arias, wearing, or having amongst them or any of them any fire-arms or other offensive weapons, be it enacted, that when any persons, being amembled together to the number of One or more, shall bear, wear, or have amongst them or say of them say fire-arms or other rifeness weapon, it shall be lawful for any jastice or justices of the peace to seize, ar, by order to any coasuble ar other person, to cause to be seized and detained, for the use of her Majesty, any such fire-arms or other offensive weapon; and such justice or other person shall immediately after such seisare and deten tion transmit to the Lord, Lieutenant or other chief governor or governors of Ireland, or to his er their chief or under se enemy, • written account of the numbers sod nature of such Are-Mlle el other offensive weapons, and of the place where, sad of the person or pons from whom, the same were respectively seized," observed that his reason for gag gestine the insertion of the proposition he had suggested was that it was desirable to prevent an evil which their lordships were aware was unfortunately not uncom mon in Ireland, arising out of proceedings such m those which had been brought under thou notice recently in regard to the Dolly's Brae affair. It was • coinenin pnctics it speared in Ireland to both parties to attend certain ceremonies, but at different times; and it was the practice also of the opposite party to endeavour, by violins. and with arms, to interrupt those ceremouirs. His wish was to put • stop to such violence, aid to give power to the magistrates effectually to prev•nt the collieries likely to ensue on such occasions. (Hear) ) He had accordingly prepared • clause to carry out that object, which he proposed should follow the 3rd elan,' of the bill ; but if the insertion of each clause was likely, as he understood from the noble marquis, to occasion the rejection of the measure elsewhere, be was not the per. sou to persevere is It, believing as he did that the measure was essential for the peace of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Lord BROUGHAM could not conceive that the insertion of the clause wend r.sult in the rejection of the bill else where. The bill wes a good general measure, but it was mort desirable that they should make it as effectors as pos sible. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH reminded their lordst ips that this was not merely • bid to pot a stop to party proces sions on the 17th of March next, but it was • measure for all times, and therefore it should oe referee in its powers and applicable to all circumstances of the rendition of I reland. Would the noble marquis now pledge the government it the chum were withdrawn to bring in a measure for carrying oat the same object? If the noble marquis would give such • pledge, the noble duke would be justiti-el in not pressing his claim • bat, if sot, he hoped he would persevere. (Hear, h ear.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was not prepared on the part of toe government to give ends a pledge. He must ma. firz the statement which had beta made just now by his noble and learned friend in the woolsack, that from inionsaties which had reached him, be was satisfied that the come quince of the amendment being carried, would be not per haps ti prevent the Passing of the bill, but to pre vent its patsiog in time to have any iff,ct in pie vesting outrages which would otherwise almost certainly occear—(hear, hear)—because from information he had received ha could state to stair lordship, that there were at this moment preparations made by the Itibbanmen la Ireland foe the purpose of carrying out a party procession, and defy ing the law, ad consequently there was imminent danger of the rearrests of those scenes which had go often taken place In Inked, sad been so lamentable in their cense. guesses. (Cheers.) Oa the other hand, considering the difference of opinion whin bad always prevailed on the subject of the earring of arms in Inland, if this bill were returned to the Home of Commons, so fez from their lord ships being able to carry oat their purr= of montane/ party prucesions from the time forward t ares, ld, if • clause were inserted relating to the carrying of i f such en Monet of oppositioa as would make it impossible that it should pass before the 17th of Mares, and one important ob ject of the Wallin be lost. (Hear, hear ) regard to the proposition of =Wag the amendment the subject of a separate bill, if the noble duke amid thine do to do so, be, en the part of the government, gond ass OW it his duty tool= say opposhin,provided it wore mosmpumied with them gun. foe the protection of innocent person% which might very will be introduced in • bill, bat could not wthout much Inconesaience form part of • single clause. (Hear, hear.) Should, however, his noble friend not think proper to bring Is each a hill, he (the Marquis d Lansdowas) might suggest that there was a bill connected with the subject of arms that must come up from the other home daring the present motion, to ermine • temporary as. which passed three years ago to enable the lord lieuteseot to proclaim mast= is Ireland under certain eireamstansen, whin had been largely reed upon, and waseemehlons4Whis boa. friend (Lo d Clarendon) the most effectual WW I= kr Ireland that had ever been enacted, and wee In hese is more than two-thirds of Ireland—when the billeame before them it would be for their lordships to consider whether it should hes n enacted in its present form, or whether any amendment should be made in it for the purpose of carrying out what he agreed with the noble duke was an important object in connexion with the presentatioa of the pates In Ireland, mid the prevention of scenes which erne generally attended with the most mischievous multi. The Mimes -es then withdrawn. Lord MONTBAGLE moved to insert the following clause: — And to it esaaten. tMt all firearms or mbar serve wen= er ersimar.ina werieb ad be term. employed. er be is the pemeden deny penes Maim part of my mteraWy or demeles es WM& moo .spas dish h sallested to penalty loft this ad theill heed= talks es dMr M .yeaty, whether the war es sallided shier t est provided shall have bean reed m regaild et all, er stethereher the reading or reassumed the semi sad elltddily es desimion shall have darn dsr mm' mid nay wok peers the deg nrs~.l,awt er new* la &lima. sod same. ~es tee= g ez diessmid to say mmtdidia aim are eir aver awe elder, dm remelesi m teias doll ear may sad edam& er and= be subject le the Sam ad pemillbs Ws eat steady sot heta, whisie pemitlse &di he ememeshis aths same 'lmam nibs reliin le Wm lmenimimmit ladles= ef pagan as his &beady tem pilaw is newt Is the mammy reesmay el Ur ream geed= oder this set The Marquis of LANSDOWNE objected to a clause which gave to every police &Err or ennoble the power of calling on say penes to ours up his arms, and on his refusing to yield them einject the party to a penalty. To Mien .uch • penis= wend be to nuke an arms set of the bill. The Duke of RICHMOND observed that when per attending such meeting we told that the law would not allow them to carry arias, the beet way of carrying oat the law was to seise their anus if they took them then. (Heir, hem) It was surely desirable that they should inform the principle they laid down, that parties should not attend pro meson, with arms in their bands. Earl UItEY remarked that provision was already made to prevent parties from caning arms at prommions, or attend lag piny preisemieras, and powers were given to the magistrates to require the part= assembled at such proms sioas to disperse sad eve up this arms, sad in case of to miss the seem =dimmer apeaalty ; this clause, thereon, Was unn Lord STIVaIiY said, that es the bill stood, if the nest les dispersed es being required by a magistrate to do so, no surfeit of arras took plate, sad no penalty wee initiated, sad if they refereed to giro a power of seizure, If the parties aggisared with arms In their hand., whether they dispersed es ant they would leave it open to evil disposed persons to aseemble la places when it might be difficult immediately 119 possum t. aSterisas• of a magistrats, sad any oa Skis* , THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 9, 1850. wesigar ken isod is to be dile by a mien of mei • rentaleW et taxation." Now, I say enie 1 kit lr• me failk sub • =2 ;i 1, know of' se metes Missing taxation by the bar , d deer from one t• another ta —= of de mesa 3leaning ell emelt by »dyeing ; mid I defy yea to lay Ilese.nmel edy putty halite seenUy who is sew wil t, Mee aMillenel Welkin. Ana Mariam caw pa premiss to soillif button yea will Ind m wadi mist imes from these en when yea ere going to put the taxes as yes will rendes segmert iron those who ere to be yenned. Then we comelm Ws peke, ore you &anima to give relief from tense wide pies Imes iMestry t I de not confine myself to the ended dais, but I tail hes. members—those erU are etude= he ham the malt tax or the ham duty ro wed—Met it as may be Mao by sash a nieeenre es that whisk I new premme, owl bolono vs are brewed to wte en the team fit the les. member to the Zs* Riding, I am maims that we Ass* sews to • eiseidea whether we will make emit a reinellen of expenditure es wm war rant dim esithdenvel of taxation. I ham moved ea nimmermenden that we should Mum to the expenditure of UK Pima I spook of 1835, I am quite prepsred to tube es average 411835, 1838, and 1837. Now, with the pennheim of the his... I will reed—ead I Mg hon. gentle men to bear with me while I read—a few figures., and that they will discard eitegether any feeling of prejudice mother questiom. I oak them to go into this ma matter of business, with a &dm to emealt the interest of those who send them to parliament, who I believe, on this question, feel precisely the same is my constituents do. I will read the 6• t h of of the heeds of expenditure for the year ending the 6th of January, 1836, end the 6th of Januavy, 1840. The interest of the fended and unfunded debt was, for the year ending 6th January, 1838, 28,514,0001.; and for the year en d i ng sth January, 1840, 28,323,0001.: so that the Me rest of the debt in the Liner year MU surly 200,0001. less than in 1838. The reeasialog items were as follow Year : Year evadin ftgleg Mb 1113 a. 6:11 Jan., 1050. Army £6,406,000 54,349,033 Navy 4,099,000 6,942,000 Ottnatios Civil expos:lime of all kinds— 4,225,000 6,702,000 Total 44,395,008 60,018,000 When 1 brought forward my motion last year, taking the finance amounts of 1843, I stated that theist:retie of onus. dine* was nearly 10 millions as compared with 1836 ; but the flume amouste of last year a compared with the pre vious year, *hew a 'ldeation of 3,344,000. (Hear, hear.) Yon have, therefore, at the present time to deal with the expenditure het year of 60,848,0001., as against an expendi. tare in 1836 of 44,395,0001., leaving an taco in 1850 of 6,453,0001. And, hear in mind, I take the last year's expenditure from the finance accounts; I am not dealing with the estimates of the present year. By the army and ordnance estimates of this year, so far as they are laid before us, I see there is • considerable further reduction ; I believe I may assume that it will be nearly or quite a million—(hear, hear);—end that will bring the exam at the et* of this year over 1835, to something like 6i millions. Well, that is encouraging, end so far satis factory ; and it ought to be encouragement for us to mu , sue the same course in this house, by peering a similar line of policy on the executive . (Hear, bear.) For I venture to gay that if these effort' had not been made in the MS" and by those gentlemen in Liverpool who have beat soar what at:need—l mean the Financial Reform Asseeleilien I very much question if these redactions weeded have been made. (Hear, hen.) Amusing then that there is an excess of 61 millions in the expenditure of this year over 1836, how do I propose to reduce that lames. se as to return to the 44,205,0001. which we spent in 1835 ? Without warning the functions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or making myself responsible for the details, I will just intimate one Fracas by which this reduction may be effected. I prepose to take gradually 5,823,0001. iron the amount expended last year in the army, navy, sad ord• nonce; already nearly • million is takes off—(heat)—bat I wish to be understood as dealing always with the excess of 61 millions, not taking the estimates of the pre sent year into account at all—(bear, hear wcul4 take 6,823,0001. from the amount expended last year, by gradually reducing the army, navy, ar d ordnance by that amount. That would leave ten millions as the expenditure for our armaments ; and I beg hon. gentlemen to remem ber tt at amount 'of ten millions, that I may not hear repeated what was stated last year, namely, that I was dealing with this subject in the spirit of a quaker, and proporing to leave us utterly definceless. (11,ar, hear.) I would do this gradually. The mashing 630,0001. I propose to take from the civil expenditure, from the cost of collection, and to gain it from the better management of the woods and foresee. (Hear, hear.) To begin with the civil expenditure. The expenditure for all branches of the civil genies last year was 6,702,0001; in 1635, it was 4,2:5,0001. Of the seven items under this head, I begin with the civil list, which stands at 396,0001., against 510,0001. in 183.5. On this, u the amount appro priated to the **nice of her Majesty, I have not one word to offer. The amount settled upon the Queen on her accessirn to the crown having been ds an t quivalent for here ditary revenues surrendered to the country, in my opinion, gives the sovereign as good a title to that amount during her lifetime as many of our ancient nobility possess to their estates. (Hear.) Therefore, Ist me not be understood, after such • plain avowal of my conviction, to utter a syllable differing from that which any one has ever heard me, either in this house or out of it. (Cheers.) There is a general impression throughout the country that the Queen has an exorbitant income, because this amount of 396,0001 is applied to her civil list ; but the country ought to know that the Queen bluetit has only 60,0001. a year placed at her disposal. (Hear, hear.) The rest roes in the expen diture of different departments of her Idsjesty's bons-hold, and for maintaining the state and dignity of the throne. If I remarked at all upon this expenditure it would be upon same of those points. There are items in that expen diture which I think might, with great advantage to the crown, be transferred to other purposes. Take the case of the buck hounds. I believe that establishment costs 6,0001. or 7,0001. a year. It is really an absurdity. (Hear, hear.) However, I never dwelt upon this as an amount that would largely coutri`ntte to the relief of the country; and I pass on to the next item. This is, 464,0001, annuities and pensions for civil, naval, military, sod judicial services, charged by various seta of parliament on the consolidated fund. In 1835, this item was 624,0001. It consists of pensions and annui• ties ; it would be obviously very invidious to point out particular names; and I do not propose to touch them. They have been granted by acts of parliament; par. tits have made their arrangements expectant ott those pen sions and emoluments being theirs for life ; and theirs they shall be, for anything I will do to disturb them. (Hear, hear.) But,l think hon. gentlemen on the other side will agree with me, that it is essential to guard against the repetition of these pensions and emoluments in future. (Haar, hear.) Hon. gentlemen looking over our finance accounts of last year will find on. feature very prominent—the number of commimionerships. (Hear, hear.) I think we have too many comotitsions. (Hear, bear.) I should very much peeler to a commission one well.paid responsible functionary. (Hear, hear.) I come next to diplomatic salaries end pensions. I nue, I think, we have • rich harveet.field indeed. (Hear, Mar.) The total charge for one year is 172,6951. Our ambassador to Paris gets 10,0001. • year; the American ambassador gets 2,0001. Our ambassador to Austria gets 9,9001. ; the American minister 1,0001. Oar Turkish ambassador gets 6,6001. • **American minister VOW. Our envoy to Ream gets 6,6001 ; the American 2,0001.; end eo on. Many of them little diplomatic appointments ought to be suppressed altogether. For instance, Hanover, with 34001. for a minister. (Hear, hear.) Bavaria, with 4,0001. What earthly ground can there be fee keeping • minister at Munich ? (Hear, hear.) I come next to courts of justice, the cost of which for the year ending the ith of January last was 1,106,0001. In the year ending 6th January, 1836, it was 430,0001., an WWII!' of nearly 700,0001. as hon. gentlemen know, that mainly arises from the Word= of a charge of 651,0001. for the Irish constabulary fares. Though that item, I suppose, must re mahi, on looking over the list, we shell find a great deal to do. The salaries of our judges were raised wring to the special circumstances of the time. lam we who think it would be very bad economy to pay judges We low, lest they should resort to the practice which has hien used elsewhere, of plias themselves; but I think lleant is great room for reduction in thou salaries in future, Ulm I find suck sums as 7,0001., 6,0001., 8,0001., and I SPA a year as the current emoluments of those officers. The emsemens salaries paid in Ireland are wholly &weeper. I tiesene M the resources and position of that country. (Hear, lager.) To find a dge in Ireland receiving 8,0001. a year , sad to know that In the United States the highest judicial fusedesasy that exists is the world—the one who has more responsible functions than say existing judge, the judge of the supreme court at Washington—who, besides settling all international disputes between the several states in the union, interprets, without appeal, along wi* his col leagues, the eonstitutioa of the United States—that this officer receives may 1,2001. • year, and that some of the most eminent men of the age have filled that chair-1 say it is an anomaly and an unjustifiable fact that you have judges In a eaustsy like Ireland receiving 8,0001. a year. (Hear, hear.) Here is an item of 398,0001. spent last year, against 274,0001. in 1835, for miscellaneous *ups on the consolidated fund. Of thh item upwards of 60,0001. is for commissioners in Inland. Barely these are not to last for ever; and some might be managed at a little lees expense. Ipm on to the miscellaneous charges and annual grants of parliament, 3,911,0001., against 2,144,0901. In 1835. Under this beacons all our publiegrents, all the salaries and expenses of the public, departments, and all our colonial and consular establishments. The very words I have read indi cate the euessive amount of expenditure involved under this head. First, "public works." Why, the house we are or rather that we hope to get Into, lea scandal to us. (Lend cheers.) I had no voice IA the selection of the form end style of architecture of the new houses of parliament, or prably I might have erred as well as the rest ; bat it mom to me from the beginning to have been a most melancholy blunder. (Cheers.) If you had been deer mined to adopt the most expensive style, and had sought for moue of lambing the public money so as the result should um be ens, known, or appreciated, you could not have done worm than adopt this florid Gothic style. (Hear, hear.) I have proposed that there shall be) • saving of 650,0001. upon the expenditure to which I have referred; and I have no doubt that the hon. member for Oxfordabirs (Mr. Halley), from the views he entertains as to the meow Isity of reductions in the salaries of public servants, and the cutting down of our establishments generally, will guaran tee me • larger saving than that in the course of a few years, and will admit that it is very easy to see our way to • great redaction in the 61 millions of civil expenditure, coupled with the 4,800,0001. the east of collection, together upwards of 11 millions sterling ; and that I as not messaing an ha possibility when I say, that from that mama% you may save lie no very distant period, 6 50, 0001 . (Hear, hear.) Without dasoUln es that plat, I will pow on to that whisk, as the Wipe Mo. disarm Ike mat eonidderatket—the wet of our asswowsla. (Rear, boar.) Last year when I had the el Irma Submitting this motion to the basso, I began by seta two vitalises what the perms of the bill wus 69 put a storali MOWZRAOLE did trot thiek his prepoeidea was teatisseseed by the geverwenat. A. armed .lasetiag was WM r esedieweadea MEM esi,the seglairatee 'tight have as mime et the Ilesl, 1.4 if ite seegistrato was present to kive the sake bellbwe or peealtf was lamest (Kier, hear ) Het the emaell nodes was as illegal is the one case se ha the abet, teal the sass pesolties should attack to those whets& part la IL (Hear.) The Margate of LANSDOWNE still thought it would be better sot to encumber the bill with this alms. The Duke of RICHMOND suggested that the words palmate& or savable should be omitted, sad that the power ef denuding the arms should be maimed to the owlet/ate. Lord MONTBAGLE seeepted the eauestiou, and The ltiurquis of LANSDOWNE agreed to wept the stases so extended. After some ociavereatien l the those was inserted. The Berl of ELLIINB)ROU011 proposed the lewdest of a dowse to winder more &sr the =realm of the fourth dare, what, es eipleined by kiss I. • former debate, was open to esieseneeption. The purport of his clause would be to provide that the pankkateat water the bill should sot iota dere with proceedings at cosmos law, wherever the ammo* law bad bun violated. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that la the bill, as It stood, all the rights of the gowns= law were reserved. After alien osavereatioa the Masse was withdraws, sad the hill seed • third time sad passed. Their..-hips adjouraed at a quarter past seven o'cikek. HOUSE OF COMMONB.—FaiDaY,MAzat 8. The Snow's kook the chair at 4 o'sioek. NEW MEMBER . Mr. MACILAT took the oaths end his meat for Kirkcud brightshire. The hon. gentleman wee introduced by Mr. Tow= and Mr. Dat.oorri.n. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. Taim ox Bo OWLIDOI.—Ity Mr. REYNOLDS, (4) from proprioton of paper otitis in the county of Dublin; Lord D. STUART, (2) from a society of careen and gilds!' in On ford street, sad from readers, sonipositon, and prisms. in Emszotrest„ for the repeal of all tam upon knowledge. Tax noun BILL.—By Lord J. MANNERS, from a gime in Lameshire, in Lvov of ma efficient Ten Boon Bal. NOTICES OF MOTION. AVISSALIAN COLON'S:6 BILL.-84 W. MOLESWORTH in committee on this bill, to mere that both the proposed houses of legislature in Australia be elective. To move also various other alterations in the bill. THE MALT TAX. Mr. MUNTZ ' , bed the hose. limber for the North Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. Coyley) when he proposed to bring forward his motion for the repeal of the malt tax ? Mr. CAYLEY said it had been his intention to introduce it on Thursday next, but he found that impossible under present circumstances. He begged to give notice that he would brag it forward se early se possible after Easter. SEIZURE OF THE " ELIZABETH HASTINGS" AT LIVERPOOL. Lord J. MANNERS asked the right hon. gentleman, the President a the Board of Trade, whether the facts connected with the misers of the ship " Elia tbeth Heitiap," at Liverpool, bad been brought under his notice, whether the recurrence of such extrainditiary proceedings would be pre vented in future by legislative snatment, and whether it was the intention of her Majesty 's government to permit foreign built ships to be registered in this country duty free ? Mr. LABOUCHERE said the facts of the case connected with that most outrageous proceeding to which the noble lord adverted, by which the "Eiizsbeth Hastings" had been carried out of LiverpooPegeinst the will of the owner, had been communicated by the owner to the Board of Trade. Those who had acted in such a manner, had done a in defiance of the law. The Board of Trade immediately communicated with the Foreign-office on the subject, and requested that orders should be gent out to the consuls at Tampico and elsewhere, to render tetty emin ence, should the veseel proceed thither. (Hear.) It had been supposed, quite erroneously, that in repealing certain acts last session the house had inadvertently altered the law with regard to the clearance of vessels under those arena ' dances. But this was altogether unfounded. The last question of the noble lord related to the duty which was supposed to be chargeable on foreign 'hips brought to England for the purpose of being pettstered, but no ditty in such a oases was imposed. If she were brought here fur the purpose of being broken up, a duty of 25 per cent. would attach to her, and there would be no difficulty in raising the tax, bat, with regard to foreign ships brought here fir registration, his answer was that no duty attached to such ships under the law as it now stood. (Neer, hear.) GRANTS TO IRISH HOSPITALS. In answer to Mr. GROGAN, Sit W. SOMERVILLE said be was not aware of any intention oa the part of the government to withdraw the grants to tiO•pitAli in Ireland. He believed, however, that it was iatanded to rivues their amounts. COS? OF CONVEYANCE OF MAILS BY RAILWAY. Mr. RICARDO moved for a return of the amount paid, during the years 1948 and 1849, by the poet offiee, to the railway companies, for the conveyance of the mails, specify ing each railway, and the sum pail to es:h, the togas served, the mileage ran. and the rate per mile. Also, the amount pelt% to railway companies for any other service in the years 1848 and 1849, eps-cifying each railway, and the sum paid to each.—Agreed to. ABOLITION OF THE LORD LIEUTENANCY OF IRELAND. In answer to Mr. RATNOLDI, Lord J. RUSSELL said the hon. gentleman was aware Gist it would be impossible to abolish the office of Lord Lieutenant in Ireland without a bill in that house. Any bill for that purpose would be given notice of, and would receive full consideration. bat he might state further that it had been in contemplation for some time to introduce a mea sure to abolish the office of Lwd Lieutenant—(loud arise of hear, hear "))—and that he had been in com munication with the Lord Lieutenant on the subject. Of course, arrangements—many of them of di ffi culty and in teiesty—required to be made ; and he would give notice of any measure on the subject. Al to supporting a measure for the purpose, he she aid of course think it asemeary, if he proposed inch a bill, to introduce it in the name of the govern:neat (Bear, hear.) PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL. In repli to Mr. G. A. HAMILTON, Lord J. RUSSELL said that, if circumstances permitted, the Parliamentary Voters (Ireland) Bill would be proceeded with on Monday, and that he hoped to Sn a day for its third reading atter Easter. OFFICES OF STATE.. Kr. TRELAWNY asked the Fint Lied or the Treuary, whether any °Sloes of the state have been given, in mud anal with an intention expressed by the government in 1847, to persons who may have been recommended for promotion, on account of good examinations for monitor ships, ander the minutia of council of the committee of council ea education. Lord J. RUSSELL sal4 he would keep the question in view, and answer it at some future time. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL. Mt. - 1108113 MAN asM he would not be justified in press ing the 'averment to premed with this bill before Rimer bat be wished to know whether they would fix in woad rending for the Art Monday after Easter, April the Bth ? Lad J. RUSSELL did not think he could Sx that day, but ha amid inform the he... gentleman on Monday who. that he could bring it ea as the second Monday after the Easter tosses. _ ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Upon the moon of Lard J. Rt seat t , it ;ras agreed that the bow, at its rang, should adjourn till Monday nut. SUPPLY THE LATE BREVET. Oa the motion for going Into committee of supply on the ansy estimates, Major ELACICALL proposed se NI sanendment that an address be tad to bar Majesty oa the subject of the bruit vbiM took place after the late royal visit to Ireland. The premed* under this brevet, the bon. number added, bad been distributed in a very arbitrary and capri cious manner. The SECRETARY at WAR explained that the giddily' principle in amusing these promotions had been to lunit them to the garthoe and troops on service in Dublin. The individual Alain wen selected not according to their stead * in the Fennel Davies, bat by the rank they held is Om staff at the time. Yr. RUBE protested against the additions thus 'fauna to the burdens of the many. The last four brevets had cost 100,0001. annually. This prerogative had been scandal ously Unwed. If rewards were necessary after royal pro = they should be restricted to titular and honorary Col. DUNNE observed upon the very scanty number of promotions ender the last brevet. MUe, more farther conversation, the motion was with drawn. THU ARMY ESTIMATER—FINANCIAL REFORM. I Os the questioa that the house p into committee of i supply, bible agile Pet. Mr. COBDEN, after presenting 'petition from Liverpool. Aped by 3,000 presets, is tenor of finansill reform, rose le propose the resslaties cif which he had gina nodes. The the set emenffiterfe of the goveremet Re . , a ltair 1613 friseesmimpPeper, No. VA, NU) asouslei le leSO the re elett tor the pee sell the Mt teßla_eir7 6 , gremellemelery wr = te. iso re). messleil le le, ves. et barbs been pas to 7 ortemodoe seepmereliele et we wine roleithamere• Itr dehosier erweaerate. MAD* lofts deem er sewarery eat of the 11111111/111/1014 or billieteeehle AAA twasulatse as tar. rim In eerAseereeeelee elatook ofemottleteseeherease et this Is. creme al Thee the lease reeired Si met Ste perm exordium as wallow of sepeledtore eai lllllMaisseres, mod Milli the hob kr the empleemest of libeler la el breathes of peeNiellve lebeetry, thereby trig te pokes peneerim sad alsrooll oldie le the lust me posel bereneef the people. IWO& dinimil thew edit. It le sends{ art this been Irks dip seem the mood esessilease. Whh ell peterilie mot; to ea enema set ressefies lie sem obi* whM the lea Mos Me% bee lon preiree le be selleint kr tie miellemee et the IF lOW hoar. of He said (Aar allsilsStelds main of text per): We have Walden Is Ibis MUM that there are to be , stetless nude he • Mae*. eflezades. Now 1 hold it Is be self *videos that yes els lave se hip reehriles of low tiro unless you have a esereepredkew redustles it eves& tare. I know there are todels parties who , thleft Plis asp shift the burden from ens slesslder to mother, end thereby give relief to the country. I how there are sassy who leek with very considerable scars at those who surely take the yelper view which I de, that you mad reduce expos& tare is order to rodeo Unties. They say " time see detailing the different and enoseesive increases that had *been mode to our military and naval establishments. I I allowed that from 1836 down to 1869, yen had bad • eontinualeuccession of inotwasss areal military and I naval establishments, to meet mean special exigessiss, such es the Oregon dispette—the Maine Boundary dispute— M'Leod dispute--the Tahiti affair—the Syrian bushier; and that when the exigencies which had given nee to the hicresee of your establishments had posited away, the expenditure, which bed been in creased to meet those exigencies, h ad never been reduced again. (Hear, hear.) But we some to the discussion of this subject now with the additional advantage of another yea's experieace. We are another year further removed from that great aisle in the affairs or Europe, which everybody had expected was to lead to certain calamitous consequences in the form of international war. Now, if there be one con soling feature in the picture, one drop to sweeten the cup of gall that hes overspread Europe during the last two or three years, it is this—that we have elicited from all that tur moil and convulsion the tact that there is not a disposition on **part ef the great balk of the people of any nation to pass their frontiers to make war upon • neighbouring testicle. Alluding to the government colonial measure, Mr. Cobden asked : Does the noble lord intend to stop there? Are we to give to the colonies as complete an inde pendence, nay, more independence, than the states of the American union possess, stereo they cannot dispose of an acre of waste land, and have not the power to touch their tariff—shall we give to our colonies that full measure of self government, and shall the pi opts of this country be called upon, by the same prime minister who does all this for the colonies, to pay the whale expense of the military police that occupies those colonies? (Hear, hear.) I come before you on this occasion, with reference to the maintenance of our army, under totally different circumstances. I maintain that it is utterly impossible for any minister—any minister with • head upon his shoulders—aner declaring what we have heard declared with reference to Australia, to the Cape, to New Zeeland, and to Canada—to oontemplaui the permanent charge upon the tax-payers of this country of maintaining a military police in those colonies. (Hese, hear.) For it is but a military police. In assuming that you may make a considerable reduction in the expenditure for your armaments, I fume assumed a gradual withdrawing of your armies from those colonies to which I have referred. (Hear.) DJ not let me be answered by pointing to our enemas at Malta and Gibraltar, or by a reference to Ceylon or Jamaica, or any of those colonies where the aboriginal or the African race predominates. But confining myself for the present to those touts , ries where the English ram can become indigenous end where it pre ponderates—and I make no exception of New Zealand— where the population are being civilised.-1 my you cannot maintain toe charge you now place upon this country of pay ing for the military establishments in those places. Fee what is the ob)jects Is it that the ade connection between England and the colonies should be the expense of maintain ing those establishments? I know no other motive, except it be to preserve the patronage ; and it will be for th is house if it fairly represents the people of thin country, to say that the only reams for persisting in this anomaly, being that of maintaining patronage in Downing-street, is not a good rea son for taxing the people of this country. In addi tion to the forces kept In toe colonies, there are the reliefs ne cessary at home, in order that those forces may have tneir appointed times at home, and the number always ea the ocean going srd coming for relief,—l believe not much short of 20.000 men. That gives the means for a conside rable future reduction in the army. But I maintain that, since 1833, you are in a different position with rospect to the army that you require at home. First, with reference to the means of transport. Why, you forget that since the opening of railroads has linked the extremities of the kingdom together, the same amount of troops gives you a vastly in creased power. (Hear, hear.) I have here a very interest ing evidence on that subject. General Gorden, Quarter. master-General, stated in his evidence before the committee on railways in 1814, " I ehou'd say that this mode of railway conveyance has enabled the army (comparatively to tee de man-is made upon it a very small one) to do the woe kof a very large one ; you send • battalion of 1,000 men from London to hlanchester in nine hours ; that same battalion marching would t.ke seventeen day.; and they arrive at the end of nine hours just as fresh, or nearly so, as when they started." What have individuals cone in consequence of redraw:et They have adapted their circumstances so as to profit by this quick communication. Men of business, for austanee, habitually keep smaller necks of goods, be cause Vey can sooner renew their impolite. (Hear, hear.) Last year, in the committee on the ordnance estimates, we applied the same principle. We found that enormous sti res were kept in London, and also scattered over several parts of the wintery ; and we recommended the goverment to avail itself of the facilities of the railways, as private individuals do, and keep smaller stocks is store and fewer eetabliso , meets. Since 1835 you have very largely increased your forces in other ways. For instance, you have 14,800 out-p.usioners enrolled; you have 9 , 200 dock-yard men enrolled in battalions, and drilled to use both lino and small arms ; you have 2,500 or 3,0 1 0 of the county noun"- tulery. Here is en increase of 26,000 annul men, to which may ne added 6.000 tor the increase of the consta bularybulary in behind once 183.5. That was an inctease of 33,000 since 1835, and it formed an additional ground why there should h.; a gradual reduction in oar armed force. (Hear, hear.) Now take the cue of Ireland. Ireland had been always the unhappy excuse for keeping up a loge army at home. (Item% boar.) Ireland is now :yen ta, and by pacing moon measures fur her, and giving her a representative system and teethe' ions like our own, ynn would do morn than 12 regiments to :ems the peace there. (11,m, hear.) Ireland wee never before Kt free irsm pulitbal excitement and organisation es she was at present. bite is now brought within a day's journey of L union, and I trust that she will not be treated in future in any respect like a cor quered province. (Hear, hear.) You have 2.5,000 troops in inland—that was the am:unt last year, according to the statement of the Secretarrat•War ; you had an in crease of 5,000, or 7,000, in the constabulary ; ,you had an increase of 6,000 pensioners. (Hear, hew.) You bad therefore in Ireland an armed force of 35,000 or 37,000 men at the present time; but in 1833 you had not more than 17,000 or 18,600 of all ranks. (Hear.) You propene to reduce 1,800 rank and file, but I can see no correspooding redaction in the number of officers. (Hear, hear.) I hoped to see the withdrawal of a major or one or two captains, but I find their number is just as greet now as it was before. (Hear.) Independently of the reduction in the number of men, you might effect considerable economy by a different organisation of the army. Is did not require a military man to know that. Is your cavalry regiments, in particular, a change is required, because they are the lauthingttock of Europe. I asked a distinguished military man, et present in London, who occupied a high grade in the service of Austria, and acquired some celebrity in the war in Hungary, to kok over the army estimates with me and to see Low differently they manage these things with us and in Austria. I believe the Austrian system does not differ much from that of France and Prussia. Well, when I chewed him the estimates end told him how we manag,d, he laughed outright at the force of our cavalry reed meats and the number of officers. (Hoer, hear.) The organisation of the Austrian regiments is t this:— , The light cavalry of Austria, comp .g lancers, humane, land light horse, have in time of peace bsquadrons of 180 , men each, or 1,440 men ; end in war, of about 200 men. Each regiment has 1 colonel, 1 lieutenant colonel, 2 majors, 8 captains of first rank, 8 captains of second rank, 16 lieute nants of first rank, 16 lieuteniutte of second rank ; total, 62. The dragoons ants mummers are organised in the same man ner as the light cavalry, with the exception that them are only 6 squadrons and hut 1 colcnel end 1 major. This gave one efflcer for every 28 men. (hear.) Now in the Begtish guards there are 32 officers to 3,51 men, or one cfficer to every 11 men. (Hear, hear.) In the cavalry regiments of the line there am 27 officers in a regiment of 328 men, or one officer to every 12 men. (Hear.) The result to which we came was this, that it you put two English regiments into one with only half the present Lumber of officen, you would have still 20 per cent. more officers in an English regiment than in an Austrian one. Now, with regard to the navy, it has increased to a very large extent sines 1835. It has inweased from 4,000,0001. to 6,942,0001. (Hear, hear) Now, I say there is no thing in the state of affairs in Europe which should deter us from contemplating a gradual reduction in our marine forces. And here, again, I have to complain that the organisation of our navy is formed, not with regard to the *tenets of the commerce of the country, but has been made subservient to high patronage—(bear, hear)— because, if you compare it with the navy of the United States—and no person will say that we would do wrong in comparing ourselves with the United States in marine matters—you will find that the United States have only one hue-of battle ship on sea ; but wherever their commerce is extended—and it extends over many oceans end seas— oar will find small vessels of war. (Hear, bear.) Thus they make their navy answer that purpose which a navy shoed answer is time of peace—that of a police force for their mercantile marine. (Hear.) Bat we keep an enormous number of line-of-battle ships at sea which ere not of the least nee es a police or safeguard of commerce. (Hear, hear.) As to the idea of their looking after pirates, for instance, yen might as well think of getting field batteries to run after pickpockets in the courts and alleysof London. (" Hear," and laughter.) Last year I sat upon a committee which inquired iota the practicability of using all our steam mewls—all one merchant steam vessels—as a means of national defence. We stated in our report that it was practicable to call into use an immense amount of steam power which may be made avail able in cam of necessity. We stated that 108 skewers of 400 tons burden and upwards, of which there were 36 of more than 1,000 tons, could be made available for national defence at a few Weeks' notice, and that there were 700 or 800 vessels altogether, on every one of which some kind of 'ornament could be placed in cue of necessity. (Hear.) In six weeks time the larger vessels could he fitted as war stamen, and a large weight of guns could be placed on bond of them, in case of any sudden emergency or hostility. (Hear, hear.) In the present state of the navy as of the army I Dee reasons why you may diminish your expenditure. Ido not think your tied in the blettiteeranean is of say use or credit to you at the present mom nt. (Hear, hear.) I think those great line of battle ships now in the port of the Pirceus, would be much better employed if laid op in ordinary or in the Meeks —(ben, hear)—because as long as yen keep In mm4llllooB, in time of peace, these enormous armaments, you will fled *disposition, either on the part of the government, or f the Ferema fleeretery, or of the Admiralty, to employ them in Mime way or other, in order to have an excuse for renewing IYe estimates at the year's end. (Hear.) How differently Ow government of the United States acted. They acted in a manner which ought to be a lesson to us. They never anted themselves to the teeth in time of pesos in order to frighten foreign governments, for they knew that foreign governments wou:d give them credit fur the latent strength which they possessed, and that they would never be es. crotched upon whilst they had such power in mem. (Hear) Our policy, on the contrary, has been founded at the euppoeiUon that foreign governments would not give se credit for strength unless we kept a great number of Hag Of battle Alps afloat. (Rear.) I would reeins whet quite a different policy—reduce your armanaa-_ taisit your taxation, and thus you will increase the prosperity, comfort, independence, and hippies= of year people. I now onus to another department—the ord names. It Is impossible for any man to look into the ordnance Gamma without feeling satisfied that a great deal MI& he saved by a better and more economical In that department. (Hear, hear.) ri ss airas"sald in answer to my argument ler reduction lot put that the stock and stores in band had been allowed to tea Imo low in 1836. I have heard it alleged against the sight hoo. gentlemen the member for Ripon (Sir Graham) to whom I always gave credit for his management of the Admiralty in 18M--(hear, hear)—that he left the depart ment in such a state that much more money had to be expended afterwards in procuring stores for the navy. I can only say that we found it necessary is the committee on the ordaanos to resseentrate with the government for keeping too many stores; and the same reproach applied to the navy foe the waste wnich took place in thatestablishment. (Hear, hear.) The committee white sat on the navy and ordnance say, that you may save 15 per cent. in the animist of stores, that you will get them better manufac tured, and have less waste by keeping a lees quantity, whilst you will not be obliged to sell 400,0001. or 50 00 ,0001. worth of old stores, es you have done heretofore, at a loss, 1 well undertake to say, of not lees than from 60 to 76 per cent. (Hear, hear.) You have very much increased your artillery force, the Sappers arid Miners, and the engineers. Now a professional gentleman has told me that a great saving might be effected if a large number of the artillery corps, who were now maintained here doing comparatively nothing, were employed to garrison our for tresses abroad instead of employing troops of the line fur that purpose. (Hear, hear.) By this means I am told the men could be kept in practice in places which were appro. primed for it, and could be withdrawn from places where they had no room to maccouvre. I know nothing en this point =pelf, but 1 mention it ea having been stated to me on some authority. (Hear, hear.) I calculated that a groat reduction may be made in the ordnance department in respect of stores, and what I may call the civil department of the ordnance. I believe all parts of the service are themselves dissatisfied with the ord nance, and everybody looks this year for a considerable re modification of that niablistinsent. (Hear, hear) I therefore come to this conclueinn. These are general end special grounds why we may hope within the course of a few years to see a large reduc•ion in our army, navy, and °M nines establishments without the least danger to the peace or security of the country. Turning to the question, what wu to be doge with our surplus, Mr. Cobden ridiculed the prejec. of attacking the princip.l of our national debt, 800 millions, with a petty balance of two rxilleins. Reductions iu taxation, peremptorily demanded by overburdened indus tries, would swallow up that small amount. But, by adopting his plan, the work of reducing taxes and paying off debt might proceed together. He concluded (amidst load cheers) by so appeal to the house not to treat this proposal as a party question. - - - The resolutions havina been read, Mr. LLBOUCHERE said he would show the house, that unless they whiled to affirm a proposition in contra diction to facts which could be proved, and unless they in teuded to make a pledge of the most impolitic description, to which, if once made, it might he impossible to adhere with aefety, or to retreat from with consistency and honour, they ought not to agree to the proposal now placed before them. The proposition of the hon. gentleman was a repetition of the motion which he had made last year, and by which he wished to pledge the house to return to the expenditure of 1835. The honourable gen tleman ascribed the increase of expenditure sines 183.5 to successive augmentatious of their warlike e-tablisbments. The terms of the hen. gentleman's resolu tiocs differed, however, in one particular, but that was an important one, from throe whicn he used lot year, for he now made the increase of their expenditure 6,000,0001., in• stead of 10,000,0001. (Hear, hear.) There was, therefore, a diminution of 4,000,0001., =mediae to the admission of the honourable gentleman himself. Now, a close sifting of the accounts would show that the reel increase since 1835 was not 6.000,0001., but 2,365,0001. He held in his hand a c imparisoa of the expenditure for 1835 and 1849, but he would merely reel for the bows the increase in round numbers. The increased expenditure for the natisnal debt was 119,0.101. for the c isolidated fund, 712,0001.; for the army 142,0001.; for the navy, 2,800,0001. ; for the ordnaneo, 1,180,0001.; for the miscellaneous esti mates, 1,166.0001. The total increase was in round num bon, 6,400,0001. Of this increase 4,106,0001. was for the navy, hut iu makiag this comparison a deduction of 612,0001. should be made in favour of the year 1319. The reductions in the navy in 1349, amounted to 730,0001. in round numbers; the reductions in the army to 373.0001 in round numbers, and in the ord nance, to 337,0001—m sking, in all, a reduction of 1,447,0001. (Hear, hear.) The house would bay.: observed that, es regarded the present year, the estimates of the navy were ridu.ed by 424 0001. ; and he might observe, were it not for the circumstance of the First Lard of the Admiralty beng obliged to pay away upwards of 100,00 0 1. is head money, for the destruction of pirates int ciug the Chinese coss-, they would have succeeded in reducing the estimates by half (H ar, near ) The E.:election in the army esti mates, in round numners. was 122i000/.. and in the ordnance estimate', 193.1001 tasking altogether, in round nuniters, 745.0001. (Hoar, hear) Now he contended the house could not, consistently with the fact, take the assertion of the hon. gentlemen, that since 1835 there h id been a succepiee augmentation in their naval and I military expeneiture. (Hear, hear.) On the contrary, it was proved to demonstration, that though up to 1848, such might have been the case, since then there had been • diminutim in th. ir expenditure; and on that account therefore he (Mr. Lobouchere) contended it was impossible fur the house to agree to the resolutions of the hon. gentle man. (Hear, hear.) As regarded the army, he would undertake to show that in the last tt.ree years expenditure had diminished. lie held in his band a return of the num ber of men voted by that house in the last three years. In 1845 and 46, there were voted 100,000 men ; in 1846 and 47 there were voted 108,000 men, and in 1943 there were voted 113,000 men. Now, in 1349 the number voted was 103.060, whilst in the present year they intended to vote only 99,000. (Hear, heat.) These facts proved to demon. Ignition that, instead of their naval and military establish ments being on the increase, there was a successive diminu tion ; and the face was that in three nears they had sue needed in bringing about • successive reduction. (Hear, bear.) He would say a word in reference to a subject that had deservedly attracted the attention of the house as con nected with the navy estimates. The practice was decidedly an objectionable ens; he alluded to taking on • greater number of men than was voted by that hcuse, but which practice had been put a stop to by the First Lord of the Admiralty. In the present year not • single man would be taken on more than was voted by that house. He found the number of seamen voted is 1848 amounted to 26,000, whilst, in 1849, they numbered only 25,776. He believed the present was the first year in which the object referred to, namely, not taking on more men than were voted, had been effected. It was desirable it should be carried into effect, and he (Mr. Lsbouchere) rejoiced to be able to announce that suck had been accom plished. (Hear, hear.) But, though he bad thought it right to correct what he believed to be a misconception and misstatement of the hon. gentleman the member for the West Hiding of Yorkshire, yet it could not be denied that of late years there had been a considerable increase in the naval and military establishments of the country. Ile begged to call the attention of the house to what were the real causes of that increase. (Hear, hum.) In the first place it was caused by the erection of the several works of de fame, which were of great megeitude and entailed a heavy expenditure, though one of only a temporary nature. There were the works of defence in the dockyards, as well as in Malta and elsewhere, and which were undertaken from • strong sense of absolute necessity, so that the money ex pended had not been wasted, but well applied ; and he rejoiced that at present that source of expense had been checked, if net stopped. (Hear, hear.) Another great cause of the additional expendimre since 183.3 had been the necessity of creating an establialuni nt of steam vessels, whi* was obviously necessary for the effective candidate of their ff-et, and which at the outset cost more than of late or than they would for the future. (Hear, hear.) That expenditure has necessarily been incurred; but he rejoiced to state that in future it would not press near so heavily on their licences. The next cause of increase arose from the fact, as referred to by the hon. gentleman, of the necessity to afford protection to their colonial possessions, which had increased in number since 1835. (Hear, hear.) Again, referring to the gross expenditure of 1335, as com pared with 1849, a great portion of the six millions differ ence remained to be accounted for, and to which he begged to call attention. The first cause of the increase might be classed under the consolidated fund head, being an item of 712,0001., which, with various miscellaneous expenses, amounted, in round numbers, to 2,478,0001. These expen ditures, which were for civil purposes, night he classed under three heads. First, the charges which had, in • great mea sure, at various times, been forced upon the government by that house—(hear, hear)—acted upon, he believed, by the demands of the various constituencies. (Hear, hear.) S condly, the charges that resulted from unforeseen calamities ; and, thirdly, the charges at present defrayed by parliament, which heretofore were paid from other MIMI% and which, in his opinion, should never have been added to the expenses of the country. (Hear, hear.) He would first proceed to state the charges that might be, and were, classed under the first head. There were harbours of refuge, 141,0001.; county rate, 148,0001.; poor rate, 198,0001. ; par liamentary printiog, which he agreed with the hon. gentle men (Mr. Cobden) was a monstrous item, 82,0001.; prison discipline and convict expenses, 400,0001. ; public education, including the Irish colleges, 225,0001, ; the registrar general, 71,0001. ; British Museum, 40,0001. ; all these sums, he begged to Mate, were given in round numbers. He next came to the secand clam—that of us. seen calamities, prominent amongst which he found the burning of the old house of parliament, and an item of 45,0001. set down; whilst for the distress in Ireland there was set down 163,0001. The third class of expenses, which were at present paid by them, though not heretofore, were—fees of the House of Commons, 100,0001. ; postage, 44,0001.; Irish constabulary, 570,000/. ; London and Dublin constabulary, 40,0001. ; charges for Hong Kong, 70,0001.; with consular expenses in China, 33,0001 .— a11 in round numbers. (Hear, hear.) Thus, he wished to give the broad features of the ease to the house, that they might see bow matters in reality stood since the l year 183.5. (Hear, hear.) He thought he had then shown that the statement of the hon. gentleman (Mr. Heiden), and which he invited the house to confirm, vs., that the isms. of expenditure since 1835, was mainly owing to their military and naval ntablishments, was un just, as also was the statement that the increase, from what ever cause it arose, had been up to the present time 11Z1110. the (Hear, laser.) He would be as glad as any he pedants to see that house able to reduce the burdens of the country, and to bring the army estimates to the le el eel he thought (Hear. heal optatatdploedpfice adopting, you to 1835. But he thought he would not be dealing .•i • with l the house, or with the country, did he express Ilse conviction r . that, taking the chance of humus affairs into eonsidera• they could hope to reduce in a short time their naval t" ' military establishments. (Hear, hoar.) That bele a" cali ber 'w h o i nl wal d not not w be ili j in us g trfie ad d If hon. gentlemen would use the fi gures which he ha d laid before them they would find they should reduce army and navy expenses by som e 1,300 ,000 f. ander th. amount of 1835, or else decide upon an alteration as re garde e 4 the civil services to which he had a l rea d y referred. (Ye ar , hear.) Before going further, be (Mr. Labouchere) theul refer to that portion of the hon. gentleman's speech whi c h related to the condition of the army. The hon. guilen had stated that, in a conversation which h e b a d with a le? garian general, that military , penenage laugh* at the . English "skeleton regiments,' and cowered the Eerlieh with the Austrian system. Now he (Mr. Labonchere) could not help thinking that the Hungarian knew Laughed, not at the many officers, but at the few soldiers, (Hs u, hear.) The truth was, that system was adopted in this country through motives of economy. The principle i n ibis country wee to adapt the army to the smallest passible num. her compatible with the safety of the country, gni always with the understanding that they should be at liberty to ensue their forces when necessity should require. (H ear, hear.) It Will all very well for the Hungarian general te: laugh, but probably he understood not the teenarnie a div e , that kept regiments in a "skeleton" coadi(ion. Meer hear) What was the army of Austria compared with that of England? He believed it amounted to urns fesiro men. (Hear, hear.) Why the nation that possessed a 23i. litary establishment on such a scale could aff md Liv e it s due proportion of officers and soldiers, and ira ftgi. month prepared for war at any moment, ith'ead of having them "skeleton regiments." (Hear, hear) The question was, were their naval and military atabish. meats excessive? (Hear, hear.) He _(Mr. Labouthere) smarted they were not. (Hear, hear.) He agreed OA' Li possible economy should be exercised : but it waild be foolish economy were they to pare down their n ave l and military establishments to a point that would reeler them totally inefficient. (Hear, hear) The result would be, on some sudden occasion or eakermacy, an incre ased expenditure without preparatioc, red consequently . a wasteful outlay of the public rands. (li eu, hear.) The ir policy wu not to keep overgrown establah menu, but, on the contrary, to keep them at to redu:(-I a Lumber as possible, but always providing that they eh Id be susceptible of increase when necessity required. Confining the question to their colonies, he hoped to be able to satisfy the house that government was dealing vigor.ualy, ttdeuti cautiously, in the curtailment of expels-if:or., as they might perceive from a statement which ho would then lay before them. He begged to commence with the Cape. In the Cape in April, 1847, the number of troops was .5,385, whilst in January, 18-50, they did net exceed 4,180. He should state that of late a lore• of Caffre police had been este:dished and organised, which would prevent the necessity of employing mops to the same extent as heretofore—(hear, hears—and, consider- Mg that in that colony they were about to have r:pretenta five institutions, they should be expected to beer t eonsider able portion of the expenses. (lieu, bear.) In Canad, in April, 1837, the number of trcps was 6,400, woilot a' pr.:- sent they were only 4,300 ; end there also the principle had been carried out, not harshly to the cclony, hit as it had been carried out in the mother country. (Hear, hear.) In the West Indies two regiments has been with drawn within the last three years. In Austalia the'r-ps had been reduced; as also in Sidney. In Van liene-.'s land it could not be so well accomplished, seeing that a garrison was necessary there, it bathe a penal settd nitht. He (Mr. Labouchere) would advert for a moment to "he sta'ement of the hon. gentleman as regarded the grit roc-„ establishments of this country compared with America. T 'e hon. gentleman had stated that America protect; shores and commerce with a far smaller number of al isa war than England employed. Now, he disl cot that a great fleet was necessary to protect their couni . ty commerce. Yet they should recollect that E-d:lan :n great measure owed her present proud elsvrion to t r solar position ; and he felt that England 'should ever position to collect ten or a d.zen soil of the line, at a ,r sneiit's notice, for any emergency that might 0: (Hear, hear.) He did no: think it we right of them to reduce their naval e r such a condi:ion a. would not enable them at any • to ce-Ilect that number of ships of the fine. (it a-. he were called upon to look at America, he should at other countries. (Hear.) He wes happy to he:;' s their relations with all European ration, were of pacific kind, and he hoped there was little chance t being disturbed—(hear); but when he looked at t.-:e Russia and France, he could not consent to country of the power of sending to sea a Cut war ' reepect of this great maritime nation. (Hear ; . that so far from the existence of that povee the chance of war it was a security kr peace. had now disposed of whet he considered the n;.:n the resolutions, namely, that there havioz ls,:eri a (. sive increase of expsnnithro since 1835, ae:l that s. er iic Aci , . Tea • .rei•ing ar ) being mainly attritiutable to the anententatie.. and military estsolishments of ttis cmnery, the pledge Intl( speedily to reduce the ex, of this country within the limits of t referred to. Toe other propotitime he rem. corollaries 0 that main one. lie was not at all diy. deny that taxes were very had things, and I would be well if the country could do withci (Laughter.) But he telt sure that the hon. gentlem o - rejoice, in common with himself, that since the v: t most important changes had been made in the this country—charges which tended, he believed, t , c permanent benefit on all classes of the communoe ' • tun had been remitted which, without bliagi-einiri‘^ the Exchequer, had bad the effect of favouring t• titular class, and injuring the bulk of the population. He held in his heed a document which. a.t'.ri.e use had not obtained it from the vote mhoe of that by .e was nevertle.el•es so instructive that he could wish is a. re to the hands of every member of that house. It 1/44 a MA? published by the host member for 11 a 4 min (Mr. wat t is which was illustrated, in the form of lines, the recent cease of the commerce, (industry, and revenue of this country. here (hold•no up and referring to his map) wire the trios of coin, of consols, and of various article.. pre sent,4 in lilies of such a varying and eerrii , i asp tracer, that the map resembled in that respect a map of the Andes cr the Al re unite There was two features in this Toro which he rtc anted with great satisfaction. On looking at the lices which rerre tented the expenditure of the country, hr four 1 that it. years 1813, 1814, and 191.5, the emendi•ure rare t mentions height. (Laughter.) But since Coot 1. had been pretty regularly and gradually declieirg. hear.) It was quits true that from 1535 the !tees wf: creeping up—(laughter); but then came the turt,:no in 1848, and from that period the lines were tom down in a matner which must be very gratityii anyone who observed it. On the who.e, the .1., dituro of this country wore very much the r•ot. of an inclined plane ' from the period which he hal first mentioned, do en to the persist time. S ill moo gratifying was it to observe, that while the exparAture of the country took a slope downwards, there were la ea in dicating that the prosperity of the trade of the country. measured by its Exports and imports, had bees sot 'v i•ro gressing. (Cheers.) The honourable gen•leniari had called the attention of the house to t h e salaries et the ;lie's, and had declared that in his opinion they ware moor: to amount. Now he would admit that it was possible that in our judicial establishments me owe might be advanta:zerus.ly pushed further than it had been. But when the hon zeta! e. man talked of America as presenting an example wbieh this country was bound dimly M tollow, cm a question 1:1“ that, he must beg spin to remind biro how totally ditfir nt wee the circumstances of the two countries. bear Ile really believed that there was eethO:, of which this country was more justly proud thin the character and conduct of its judges. The effects were not to be estimated by any emery et:c. : the effect of conciliating the goodwill of the people o: :bts country, and inspiring runect for the law, was incele.O.:e— (Hear, hear)--and he must say that that woula I.e a wretched and miserable economy which would batool •he lots of such advanteger. Let there be economy in administration of the law, but let the pay of the judgi , re sufficient to operate as an inducement to the ornate r. ' the bar and lawyers of the highest character to axeoe *eats on the bench. (Hear, hear.) The hen. e , •'• man bad talked about America. He (Mr. Lahouchcor t hit been in the United States, and had no prejudice against as institutions; on the contrary, he saw with deigh: sr..l ad miration the progreu that great country was main; in prosperity. Bat be was not an indiscriminate admirer of American institutions. Ellen, hear ) He believed there were many resin eta in which this country had a „Oita advantage over the United States, and its judicial c itoblish menu were, in his opinion, amonost the number. t bleat. hear.) He hoped honourable members would not be deterred from voting egaiust the resolution, by the fear of misinterpretation, whether on the part of their on. stituents or of the country at large. lie (eat iltigie however desirous the people of this country nu :e t be of economy, they were at the same tone too sagacious and too intelligent to be no 01 by the mere name of economy. He hoped the butte would pursue the same course as it had else,. ear. sued on that subject that of all owin g the e 0 "'n. meat to proceed with the estimates , end that tr..y would not think it necessary beforehand to adirm lutions which he humbly submitted were income: soot , she facts, or be induced to take a pledge t he adoptien wu mot inexpedient with reference to their duty. (Cheers.) Mr. SPOONEIt said be should not give his supper ) :, s intended to do, to the resolution' of the 500. geu (Mr. Cobden) if he thought the affirming of them no. dues the effective force of the army and navy. rake:... t was, in his judgment, ample room for redurtion s".• .... trenching on anything which was e ssential to the of both services. (Hear, hear.) He was "tending sition to many of those with whom he generally so, o being convinced that money was extrarsguntly should vote for Mr. Cobden's proposition. The h0n..13.,,;^. bar then wandered iiito the question of taxation. spa ° tended that Enelishmen groaned under their bu'•..". , because their industry was taxed, while that of the C was left free. Thence he proceeded into a Wren." Olo t " lion, and denounced the Peel bill of 1819. a sea mot Mr. HUME would take the parliameotary he found that in the year 1835, the expenditure irtne ''" to 44,422,000 J.. and he found that in this yetr . it amounted to 50,853,0001., showing that t" crease, instead of being only two millions, as state d the right honourable gentleman, came very nearly I;'_2 millions, as was stated by bit hos. friend. (Heat 0 " , . This increase had been caused by their holding such ripen sive establishments as their army and nasy to their prerei,nt extravagant extent. He held in his hand a return, w.f: sow prepared by Mr. Bariog, and this was the MM . it In the year 1835 the expense of sasistainioa r.'u<critt riot :: ti 4r,