The Express. — London, England, 1855-06-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P. HOUSE OF LORDS.—TUESDAY, Joist 5. The Lotto Citaricu.nos took his set upon the wools* at fin e'elock. THE MEDWAY TRANSPORT. Lord PANMURE said that with german to the matter oldie tem et beers es beard the steam-skip Medway, to l ota eiggleg7tirg nia stiesrj o bg . been sailed s m mina that cut I=lll‘ da loses so* kg the genressat to Southampton to sped apes the suss Is whisk the horses had bean IWea bead het dd That report he bell is his and the solieNies Of it was tbet teen Damihie rim bad** haimiselth raped to the made In wish* the horses wen gist* es beard. This being 10, he (Lord Pasoan) had Se desbt bat that bed the Medway not ma with such weep enenweether the aeleshasse to which the noble lord appear (Lad EUenbenagb) bed refined would not have theta Thews! of ELLENBOROUGH bad seen a sketch of the Asa seder which the horses were placed, and he felt been* to 'wefts that the mode is which it was enured Sellsesal to MID to be faulty ia some respects. H. would stop* to the noble lord that he should ocessiosall) go dews sad see vessels himself. Were this dons, he (Lord Plisebeesegb) bad no doubt bet that he would ocassioaally M able to theew out @vertices which would sot strike Ow who, hike professionally concerned, viewed the matter with undessional hiss. THZ VIENNA CONFERENCES. Lord LYNDHURST wished to sok the noble earl OM. Bite (Lord Clarendon) whether he bad reeked any intent. ' tepee of the close of the Visas* oriakswilab aed wbadme he would have any objection to lap ipso Ile Islie the proposal whieh was submitted to that Neibitenee The Earl of CLARENDON said felted Illeameneing se. aired lalermation franker Malesteemistiteratifiensitbet the essferences had upon the day previousness semeelietiby Coast Bud, who had then made a populists thiamin plenipotentiaries. He believed that tbehemitspheilfelleep haries—the holm must recollect that he yes ow* hem a very short account of the matter--bed mdeltel le Mow whether they might send the pregmet le a. Petskiserg. Upon the French and English mhiMtebdy elesalted, they replied that they had no instrudie* r epee *Sash a asp. Count Buol then said, that having Mid r morylng out the engagement which he undertook, aemely r w flad elements upon which the different parties might ..,Masser to treat, he considered that there was so Wass an in the soubrette being held. (Hear, hear.) With regard le the quids whether the proposal made *add be laid before parliament, he (Lord Clanndos) approltesded that thon would be no objection to such • course. As, however ' be was not yet quite certain what the proposal wee, be sh ould like to defer giving an immediate answer. NEWSPAPER STAMP DUTIES BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. CORN RETURNS. Lord PORTMAN moved for as aeormat of the total qua titles of oath kind of corn, returned by the *ors Wanton as laving been sold in the markets of Ryland end Wales in the year 1854. And also the total quatities of es& kind cf corn and flour sad meal, reduced to quarters et can, which have been imported from abroad into Baglaad sad Wales in the year 1854. He considered that the present mod* of obtaining returns with Wanes to MS was very imperfect, sad that the minute information obtained was seldom of a kind which could be made available for any woeful purport. In any alteration which might be side in the pretest system, he thought the first step should be to obtain the returns from the seller instead of the purchaser. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said the subject +aeons of great importance to the interests of the country. Though difficulties bad occurred in procuring the returns, • great deal of very useful information bad been collected, more especially in the West Riding of Yorkshire, sad in Cam bydgesliire. All the poor: law inspectors conserved in saying that it was impossible to obtain more satisfactory returns without the mug of a compulsory law, many eseeplare etikestiag to make returns on the grated that if they did se memo el their wishbones would refine. As to the wale lads enggedise, that returns should be obtained from the seller instead of the purchaser, the same hike& ties would occur under that arraigement, In the Assam of gempialeios. Feeling the importance of obtaining asteeMe selleries, it was with great satisfsetion that he bed lewd • obis lord who had been elected to fill the isgsrtest elks Of resident of the Royal Agricultural Society, styles • aaaaiisa of his name to the object, end teetering • midi ma the part of the of this untry Ms* befluelebee should be agriculturis secured. ts He was co inclined that to think Met the beet course be could panne under the dr- Maillehintemi was to ask their lordships to appoint • select ormaidtbes to inquire Into all the circumstances attending the attempt to obtain this information. He thought it important to have brought under the notice of their lord ships the successful ma in which the object had been carried out in Scotland, and the imperfect manner in which It had been carried out in England, and especially in Ire land, and he also considered it desirable to include in the inquiry the present mode of taking the corn averages, with the view of ascertaining whether some better method could mot be devised. The Earl of MALMESBURY add the great point was to ateertain what was likely te be the result of the harvest, so as to enable commercial men to engage without such risk as they had hitherto incurred, in the importation of awn from foreign countries. He did not see why his noble friend (Lord Stanley of Aladin) should not take upon himself the rseponsibility of introducing a bill to carry out the object. Such • measure would probably meet with very little opposition in either house. He perfectly agreed with bits as to the desirability of obtaining accurate ratans in spits of the insensible prejudices which induced some m oons to oppose the object, and their suspicions as to the motives of those who wished for them. Lord PANMURE could not help saying that the soccer which had attended the inquiries in Scotland resulted mainly from the fact, that those inquiries were carried on through • body in whom the farmers bad milldams, namely, the Highland Society of Scotland, whereas the inquiries in this country were carried on principally by persons who ware not particularly connected with agriculture. Not more than a down farmers in Scotland refused to make returns when first applied to, and in consequence of reptesentations which were made subsequently that dorea was reduced to one. The Duke of ARGYLL said another reason which ope rated, he thought, rather powerfully in Scotland was, that in that country the farmers all held ender leases, and there- fore the making returns could not prejudice their interests . The extreme Masteries of many English farmers to sake retorts was not, in his opinion, considering the terms of *air taunt, so unreasonable as some noble lords read think. The Earl of HARRO WBY observed that as respected the last harvest the returns were at present so slow as to be of scarcely any practical utility. Lord BERNERS had less been of opinion that it we. wiry desirable that accurate reams should be obtained of the gross pr wines both of corn and meat. He had apprehended that aoy evil result would arise hose the truth being known; on the. contrary, he had alma s felt that it would be a seat advantage to the country if Information an the subject were generally diffused. As regarded the taking the gcs from the niter instead of the buyer, be thought it very desirable that such an alteration should be carried into effect. The returns were then ordered. Their lordships adjourned at half-past 6. HOUSE OF COMMONS.--JuNa b. Kr. Frrzaoy, in the almost, of the Speaker, took tho chair at fear o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Lord ELDDO took the oaths sad his seal for Aberdeen alaire. The following bills were read a third time and pound : Bolton and Nightiagelea' Road; Ediaborgh and Glasgow Railwa; Gloucester Water and Local Board of Health ; Great Western and Brantford Railway ; London and Black wall Railway ; London and South Western Railway; Net tinehua and Newhaven Road ; Sunderland Doak ; Bills. The East Kent Railway Bill was, after a short discussion, lead a mond time. THE NAVY. WILLIAMS (f. Capt. &obeli) gave notice to ecnomittee to inosire into the government of the Kr. W. WILLII tam for a comaitt airy. REPRESENT AT Kr. T. DUNCOI to tall the attentio, i i the representation i ! li sewer to Mr The CHANCE! Dot the ieteatios c ; the set 13th sad 14 for nutted tang , i A t Colonel NORI geragraphe in tbel i 11 the army (r , socardh ho had paid 6,71 law retiring slim ' alto had paid but 1 1 Mt. PEEL said lath of infest,' i t Ka • ableh the @nova Ka sentry ream tablas the Kik allewease. LI Kr. DUNLOP wee sot to be vie Kr. BOUVEE the machinery I c::1 4 ia 1644, • AS Mir I \ eatiest made/ kh ktioa this min M )1 Kr. PBACOU Whoa he profess mhastrative ref. , .. Mr. LATADI I * I . % • \' 1 e • i t 114 11 . • 't \ TION OF THE CITY 01,_LONDON ABS gave natio foe the 3rd July nest attention of the Dome to the anomeloss state a of the City of London. ASSESSED TAXES. Mr. FRISR7IIID, 'ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER eairl it wee of the government to propose a mama St 14th Vie., a. 96, mithorisisg eNalpniYes re beyond 6th Aprii,lB6o3. ARMY RETIREMENT. tTH asked for an explanation of times report of the commissioeen en promotion is warding to which a lieutenent-oolanel of slimily, '4 6,7151. for his commission. received enly the allowanee as a lientatent.eximittl of Infantry, I but 4,6001. _ said that the regulations of 1840 provided only infastry retirements, and that was dm soak upon allowanoes were final. The general warns was Alan to ezehause into Ltantrprogintraiv, r** difference, and that to attire oa Ike infantry LAW OF P )P asked why the proposed law of portage* be extended to Scotland ? BOUVERIE said that the law was WM la the et the Joist Stock Regislielles a, and which applied only to cued regarded Sootlaad the Lord Admo la strall the ser sonsideratim, but could not proralso Nee. weetes. MR. LAYARD'S MOTION. PIL&COMIE &eked the boa. =suttee km A y p 11911814 to bring oa bit tanks relative I r s 2 toloon. . AltD said that that Sin dePaad MI th. P* THE EXPRESS. WEDNES DAY EVENING, JUNE 6, 1855. ficr that sir years' war keep up year fleet to the establishmeat necessary for watch's, Basta fa tho Black Beat It has beta said that though Russia say premiss that so aggressive uswiasiat shall be made upeo l i e V bold , yet se VP* MON Wks, sap W ag that Lewis we mass um bug se. ' duds' tho aurabir of ships. But it appeals to use that Yes Rot go firths, than this, for if you tiodurtelio to malatala the ladopeadoess of Turkey you take a task la hand that mutat be seempllebed without great sad per ambitospoass to the seautry—a task which will impel to taelaWn a large animist continually oar the watch - - . -. (Rear mese, mad asked the Chasm Her of the Exabequa whoa he proposed sea to take supply. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was proposed to go into committee of ssully ou the snails mous estimates on Thanday next, after the debate on the Scotch Edusatioa Bill. (Loud laughter.) VACCINATION. Sir J. PAXINGTON asked whether any steps were being table to render mon satisfactory the working of the Veseisatios AO ? Sir G. GREY said the subject was under consideration, sad he was la commasioatios with the Board of Health, bat could mot fix a day. TORTURR IR MADRAS. Mr. OT WAY asked walks govenmenthad resehed the report of the assignee's inesiated to lesions bee the alleged ewe of Wes at Madras ; and if sok whether they had taker" emy seep to prevent in being forwarded to the India Hoses, preview to its being laid an the table ? Mr. V. 811ITH said that the report bed at sena before him, bat pledged himself to its production, sessediag to prembe. PARISH CONSTABLES BILL. Mr. DEEDES moved that the order of the thy for the th ree upon this bill be read sad discharged. He said that the Homo Secretary having intimated that be would oppose the farther progress of the measure, sad that he would bring forward a general bill to apply to the whole kingdom, be thought it better to withdraw it at eau . Sir GAMEY enplaned that what he stated was that he was impressed with tie neosleity of having a atom sys tem of police throughout the country, and that that object might be attained by the Rural Constabulary Act, the adoption of which he thought the bill of the hon. member was calculated to provost. The order for the committal cf the bill was than read and discharged, and the bill was withdrawn. THE VIENNA CONFERENCES. Mr. BRIGHT inquired whether the noble lard (the Prime Minister) was sow prepared to answer the question he had put on the previous night In reference to the pro duction of further papers completing the aeontat of what bad taken plea at Vienna, especially as to say new propo sition made subsequently to the data of the papers already en the table ? Lard PALMERSTON had no objection to lay upon the table the last official communication received from the Aus trian government, together with the answer to it. He might take the present opportunity of Informing the ham that the goverument had received to day • telegraphic des. patch from Vienna announcing that the conference met yee terday, sad that after a communication had been exchanged between the several plenipoteatiaries it was finally closed. (Lad sinus from both sides of the house.) Sir H. WILLOUGHBY inquired if the papers the noble lord bad undertaken to produce would include the proposi tions alluded to by Coat Baol in his communication of the 14th alt. ? Lord PALMERSTON—What I said was that I would lay es the table the official communisatia resolved from the Austrian pregnant, sad the answer to it. When these papers me produced the hon. baronet will see whether they oaten the information he requires. (" Hoar," and laughter.) THE WAR.—THE ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr. COBDEN resumed the debate. After adverting to the importance of the subject, and defending the small minority who compased the peace party from the {reputa tion east upon them by the majority, and especially by some of the liberal members—reinindiag the hoses that Burke was accused in his day of having eased the Ameri cas war just as the three or four members who were the advocates of poses now were charged with having caused the present war—that Cbathaen himself did not soaps similar imputations—and that that great chief of the whig party Fox, was stigmatised as the tool of France, and caricatured by Mr. Gilray as inviting over the French to heads us, he sanded to deny that beam* he end his friends were eppNed to this war they advocated anything so aleg m that is no ease could war be jut, inevitable, ge smeary. It may, I think (continued the hoe. member) he fairly admitted that we have all a common interest in view—that is, the interest of our common country. The only object we have at heart, and the only object we have • right to consider in the discussion of this question, is the honest and jut rights and interests of England. (Hear, hear.) We may as individuals desire to act philanthro pically to all the world—as Christians we may wish to have the power to Whet chastisement on the wrong doer, and raise up the down-trodden amongst the nations—but we do not come here in the House of Commons to vote taxes for carrying out schemes of universal benevolence, and for extending the protecting hand to all the oppressed matins of the world. We have limits to our power, ; but in confining the exercise of those powers to the interests of me own country we must remember that the heat interests England are is harmony with the interests of the whole world. (Hear, bear.) That being the case, let us, I say, throw to the winds all the declamatory balderdash and rub bish we have heard from the Treasury benches about our lighting for the liberties of the whole civilised world, and OW& is brought forward only to suit the purpose of the lialeseet ; for when they oome to the conferences of Timms, to discuss terms of peace, we see hew they throw aside those inflammatory statements by memo of which they have whipped and lashed the snaky into this war. (Hear, hear.) I wish, in the but plea, to revert to the speech of my right hoc. friend the member for Southwark. If there be an hon. or a right boa. member la this hous • whose opinions I have • right to we I understood in past times, it is his. (Hear, hear.) I mg lib dellberately, and my right hoes friend can s* amissoliet as (hear, hear), that never was a speech mode by any member of this boas so utterly at variance with nil his previous declaration of opinions as that de. Wend lest night by my right hos. friend the member for liaMbersak. (Hear, hear.) The right bon. gentleman sill essmeahn the jou desprit of Moen, written, I think, is 1833 , in reference to the whip, when, after stting long Is the cold shade of the opposition, they at length succeeded la the Treasury benches,and immediately began to follow the =Ltof the tones* their predecessors. I am sure my right d will recollect it, for, if I mistake not,we have often inpatient spoken of it together as generally applicable to mos when they get into office. The point in the ism Oman I allude to illustrates the position of the whigs by • reference to a certain Irishman who went to the West bask aad who, on meeting with a number of blacks who yobs tolerably bad English, and whom he mistook there .= he countrymen of his owe, said to them, "What, black lila early already!" (" Hear," end laughter.) We have Am seen metamorphoses on the Treasury benches ; we lbee sees Is very many cage the colour change and the hair paw wily in a very short time ; but never have we seen akar disarm suddenly into so complete and deep a jet lisit—never hair become so stiff and curly as in the ease of tbia=t bemearable member for Southwark. (Roars of r.) Row I should like sow to bear that right bosearablesontilesess read that admirable speech he made, ma on thsesmies merely of the great panic debate oa the Obeli w elts tlhomh that would be instructive), wherein he L, ss a meddling policy of the noble lord (Lord Pahmenes), but how I should take to hear him read here, hem the benimaiag to the end, the speech he made in the Meese of Leeds, when we were in danger of going to war elth France on the Syrian business, against our involving esembes in war for the protection of Turks, Syrians, Egyp tians, Greeks, or anybody else. (Load cheers.) I should like to sae my right hon. friend now stantigin that table, sad be forod to read that speech from wing to end, and let the house contrast it with the spec he made lot night. (Cheers and laughter.) The right has. gen tleman says the question now is, whether we (that is the government) are right is refusing to make peace on the terms proposed by Ruda. That is not the whole question. The question is debate— and which is to be decided by the division to-sight—is whether the plan proposed by the government was the best sad the only plan that could, under the embolisms, he devised (hear, hear) ; or whether the difference between the plan and the plea proposed by Russia was gush se to warrant the recommencement of the war. These are the questions we have before a to-night. What is the dif foresee between the two roman ? Remember, it is the government of this country with whom webers now to deal. They are the parties who are now responsible for the war; they will have the glory if it succeed, and upon them must rest the responsibility if it fail. Well, what is the differ uses between the proposal of the government of Ragland mid the proposal of the government of Russia? The question between them was—whether Russia should have Isar sail of the line, four frigates, mad • proportionate num ber of smaller vessels in the Black Sea; or whether all the navies of the world should have free aeons to that sea, sal Russia be permitted to have as many ships there es she grd? (Hear, hear.) Now, I have been told by a new mes Oat if Russia bad your Omni and de stroyed her old weetbless ie r o: d end her green-timber vessels, sad east ea eider to the Vatted Butes for four first elms line of battle elms ships, of 130 gum sash, fitted with screws, fear frigates of that elastic easeaster we know the build, iambi perhaps Mb and also bled bib mew% and • me fe smaller smoweesnie—she would have Critr ie stseei demi. able bey Isis lamb Sea then ebbe ever yet had—a hoes that would be able le ampere esesmitally with doable the naval prow she hoe ems yet mobilised to that sea.(llsoe) If that be the sole, what poi dbiendes d prim web we. Age all, ging to fames upes Medi he the beim eies Whitey 'Bet Russia bibbed ebb pooposi hr Wilkie ibis number of her ships es • Fist et Sot es b pi j o rinad of dimisishing bee tame shoseeb bi ned es (Bur 4 Nvw_, boomer the right hen, ps alms says, Uwe allow Buda ' bay* free mom bib Ilea See, sad we have else tees assess to these webs% ail be put to as esensous upesditure h kb*/ g dirge pease establishment for the purpose of wishing Rya. ids is the Blab Sea. The right UM. gentleman had Masi Of the probability of ade years' war. Now let me ask hew lose Would be (Merst of the mosey you will have to pay aibd i eprtais re as answer, and he told the _fie_ that the would give an answer, and say no, OM treat all that took place there as me& elendial, bat that Hilts noble lord allowed kin to go oat of dig, TOM without an answer, looking to the soirees of tke balloraratias he had received, he would not sake say secret of what parsed on that (ma- g a& TM state of Olegs was very serious. We had eastrived be detail Germany aad Austria from pe ; tbwrre was we bops of tisk joining us ; that was &raided—there was swan am Is help us. What would our fate be if, by sad bye, It was Foetid that Ragland was the same oi the _ rsessmiiipseptseit 'tea en Turkey or in its imiaediate vicatity. beer.) You my you cannot believe Russia, end you cell upon her foe evenraties. I would ask the noble lord, the member for IMAM idea ta ,.... t s l i EV•at model of whiggery, whoa the mop* (Fox), said upon the subjest of se- Kla ir rw .- as said we must have securities against M of Prance, and the tortes of that day were what the noble hid is now urging, Kr. - Mi. "Ka have secstrities—the only securities we inn rear Wm, namely, the interest of Franca to make perm Ma ma NM be her interest she will keep it ; such bKa illala of di lesticas, end it will be so at long as Kameda jests—year only security is your own vigilance." If you emergeise it as the policy of this nation that you will 'odd armies to light the battles of the ointment in the midst of their great standing armies and their system of conscription, I should be a hypocrite to say that such a policy was consistent with that moderate peaces establish ment which it has been the maxim of this country for years put to maintain. If you ackeewledge that policy you must be prepared to keep up a large standing army to place yourselves is a military point of view on a par with France, with Austria, with Prussia, with Russia, and the rest, for if you attempt to follow out such a policy without such preparation to uphold it, depend upon it the country is but preparing the way for a most ridiculous and ignomi nious exposure of weakness. (Hear, hear.) I would ask the right hon. gentleman when he last night indulged in vituperation against Russia, when he told us that Russia was not to be trusted, whether he was aware that as • cabinet minister he bad himself been a party to an engage ment with Russia to interfere conjointly in the affairs of Moldavia and Wallachia. The right honourable baronet told us last night that Russia was altogether without shame ' and he attributed to her every sentiment and set that sou vile and dishonourable. Did he not know at the time that he, as a member of the cabinet, was himself a party to the treaty by which we were to join ourselves with France, Austria Prussia, Turkey, and Russia, to be the guardians of Wallachia end Moldavia, to interfere by fore* of arms in her internal elan, and to form a tribunal that would, is feet, canal overnment of those Principalities ? By the treaty in the fourth protocol, you have bound yourselves ilrineelae beseemia, conjointly with Russia and the other Ke government of Wallachia and Moldavia. I will MK Ks Mama to the house, in order to show what en =nts you Lave catered into with that power, which, you have had some newspaper statements of sue. lIIMes mad altered circumstances, it now suits you to vitupe- Mak but which at other times you can slaver over with your Miss(Hear.) Here is the seventh article of the pro. isat I will read also the sixth. It provides—" That ilimm shall be no interference without the consent of the bleb diatreeting parties—England, France, Russia, and Alleatabad the courts will not afford protection in the P to foreigners whoa. troceedinge may be prej is the tranquillity of these countries or the mKgdibettring states ; and disapproving such proems. they engage respectively to take into imeadderation the representations made by either et the powers, or even by the local authorities." Thus you are bound, together with Russia, if the governor of Bucharest should make a report of some local difficulty, some local Musa, you are bound, in conjunction with Rus sia, to interfere and arrange it. And what is the conelu- Lion ? I blush when I read it. Here it is—" On its aids, the Sublime Porte engages not to tolerate in the read- *Wes foreigners, such as are just described ; nor to allow the local inhabitants to meddle with matters dangerous to the tranquility of their own country or the neighbouring states." And this is signed by a Russell ! (Hear, hear.) The name of John Russell stands at the foot of these protocols as a party in preventing the inhabitants of those countries from meddling with their own local matters, if in the opinion of the powers it should be considered dangerous to the tran quillity of their own country. (Hear, hear.) Mark, how changed is the child and champion of revolution when he breathes the air of Vienna! (Loud cheers.) My hon. friend the member for Aylesbury than these sentiments, and my d iation of this arrangement. (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Layard.) But has my hon. friend himself in this m a tter name d that bold, ....latent, and stllllll7 MOW . . _---ens of the war, aid that she bad need con gaff he thilandea of the French senesnent and the yeeneb i gE / That might lead to the opposite of ai we beet the eldest of the two it might lead to estrempeuent. If we were to carry on Obi lief Is umjention with Frans alone, did not that Javan the responsibility of doing more than we are Mir ? Would it not tome day be a sub j.* of nothmination that our force in the Crimea nun Mal, sad that of the French so great ? This wee not, per bage,the thorn time to bring up this question, but he would seer to oWiestedne which had been made by the hon. mem ber for Iseenweesaldreotho stated that we were 40,000 short of the somber of men voted by parliament. It was stated by a noble Ind a member of the government is December, that we wen 20,000 short; and the hon. member for Inver usee.ahlre said that the militia regiments in Ragland were mere skeleton, while in Ireland end Scotland they were, practically, disbanded. If that was true, and we still wanted forty thousand men, might we not be urging on the war with that blind heedlessness with which everything had bun done by the government, without looking three months beforehand; red by and bye again see the consequences of this want of foresight ot the go vernment ? He was speaking at a moment when the coun try was suited by the recent intelligence from the seat of war. Now, if any one studied the maps of the scene of the operation, it would be seen how much was male out of very little, although it bad done much to increase the con fidante of the people. He placed no limits to the power of Instead and France if they pat out their strength, bat he was not so sure that our position in the Crimea was as supposed. He bad been in communication with a gentle man with regard to the supply of toed to the Russians in the Crimea, sad he did not learn from him that Sebastopol de pendedou Kutch for food. He was told by this gentleman (and it ought to damp this unwarranted exultation), who was a holder of corn at Kenn, that the Russian govern ment had stated to him five months ago that they could not be responsible for the safety of his corn. Five months ago, Russia gave notice that it was intended to abandon Kenn, and no doubt it was the same with Beriansk and other places in the Sea of Asoff. From what he gathered there was gnat exaggeration with regard to this expedition to the Sea , of Azar. If there was really anything in it, what must now be the reflection of those who had the ships to undertake it long ago ? (Loud cheers.) Were we sore that the *spun tin was not miessioned by the same cause which took our Imp Mm Gallipoli to 'Varna, and from Varna to the Orinse—the ay of "Do something." (Hear, hear.) If our a pesuneseat or • commander did something because they wen told to do something, and for no other ream, the chances were • hundred to one that they would do nomethieg wrong. (Hear ' hear.) He want% sure that the expedition was caused by anything but bemuse the government was called on to do something, and be would now record his deliberate opinion that, while the proceedings in the Sea of Azoff wets destroying private propertv, and would not add to the lustre of our arms, he believed that they could have no better effect on the war than the marauding expeditions last year in the Gulf of Finland had on Cronstadt. Ile believed that the supplies of Sebastopol came entirely from Po. rekop, and that that plan and Simpheropol were strongly fortified like Sebastopol, and that both must be taken before you could intercept the food of the Russian army, and take Sebastopol. All to the interception of sup plies into the Crimea SCION the steppes beyond Perekop, he was told by a gentleman that every spring 1.000 carts were obtaisel to go from Odessa and other places on;the cout,over the steppes, with produce to the Crimea, and that all that commerce was now suspended. The consequence was that the Russian government would avail itself of all that mesas of conveyance, while so far from the steppes being an obstacle, .journeys were made over steppes five or six times greater in extent than those. Was it not better that we should look at all these things in this light, and calmly consider them, without giving way to an effer vescence of feeling which prevented our judging of the con. sequenon of what we were about to de ? We had recom mit:ad the war with a determination to take Sebastopol. When he said that the united strength of England and France weld not be resisted by any human power, be made which, with his declared opium., I thick he alto . It is well known that the sympathies of my hon. friend were in favour of the war, because he believed it angered some advantages to nationalities, that it would tend to the in dependence, or at least the good government, of certain states in Wallachia, Moldavia, Servia, and the rest. (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Layard ) But has my hon. friend so little sagacity as lot to see that all this waste of blood end treasure bad very different objects in view from time he contemplates ? And seeing the course the war bestehen, and the terms and arrangements upon which the govern ment are ready to conclude the war, my hon. friend ought to denounce it altogether, since it has nothing at all to do with these objects for which alone he km declared it was defeasible. (Hear, hear.) Before the war actually broke out I was appealed to, by illustrious names, not to oppose it, because it was looked forward to by them as likely to pro mote the independence of pertain down-trodden communi ties on the continent. I gave my opinion in answer to that request eighteen menthe ago in writing, and I am not now disposed to recall a single word I then stated. I warned those persons who came to me, that if they expected that a war, originating in diplomacy, as this has done, and carried on by means of enormous armies, as this has been, and with such men as those who are at the head of our own government, and of the governments of the continent, to give direction and purpose to it—l waned them that they would deceive themselves if they supposed such a war would teed to their advantage, or satisfy their aspirations—and I added, that my feat was that the effect of such a war would be just the opposite of what they wished—and would strengthen those despotisms they hoped to weaken and depress still more those oppressed communities they hoped to serve. (Hear, hear.) Bun was my opinion Um, and . such I still believe • - " -of this in favour of a MOT tint either. one exception greater _ He alluded to pestilence and disease. He had read lateiy some extracts from Spencer's work with reference to the climate of the Crimea, which bad reference to the summer. He never dreamt of applying those observations to the winter, for if well housed and fed, and not overworked in the trenches, there was nothing in the constitution of an Englishmen to prevent his living and being in health in the winter in the Crimea. But in the summer, according to the hest aathorities, it was hardly possible for en Beglishman in the Crimea, unless the most care ful precaution was observ+ll, to escape the intermittent fever which prevailed in July, August, and half of Septem ber. Those were the fatal months. If any one sinned against the meet careful rules of diet—if a man went out in the mid-day sun, or wee exposed to the night dews—if he took cold water when heated, or ate new corn or fruit—all these things brought on the intermittent fever , and all these precautions soldiers, of all other men, disregarded. He dreaded the fate of the army in July, August, and Septem ber. Had that been thought of by the government when they tamed away from peace ? On them and on their shoulders would rest the whole responsibility. He would not, for all their emoluments, and all their power, take on himself the responsibility they incur red in the next six month,. If no pestilence destroyed our army, and we triumphed is the Crimea, all the honour would he theirs; but if our army was destroyed by pesti lence, if it failed in the field, and there was a repetition of the disasters of last winter, they mist be prepared for retri bution—nothing short of physical violence, which would some upon them in the next six months; and such a retribu tion would be only deserved bye government which went on with a war as the present government had done. They did not proceed with the waren the ground they formerly took. It was then said that we were fighting for the liberties of ear ths whole .to be the tendency cm ._ ~ war. (Hear, bear.) Bat -- -- --_- ---- - - the power of having . might to revert to my right bon- friend's allusions to Bus - many sad Europa; but now _ _ question of the war effect as much mischief as if there were no limitation. I ail : I believe there are few whose public views was the free ingress and egress into the Black Bea, or the believe that if Russia be perfidious, with the limitations you are more opposed to Russian despotism than mine ; but it is limitation of the ships of Russia in that sea. That was the propose all her objects may be effected ; and if on the other unjust—l had altered said it was scandalous for • cabinet infinitesimal point which was now in dispute. Was not band she be not perfidious but trustworthy—and during the I minister, who, within these few weeks, was himself • party something depending on the House of Columns ? Had 40 years she was our ally we had no reason to think her to these confidential and, as I think, seaworthy arrange- they not whitened the state t o which parties en d public otherwise—any such limitation would be unnecessary.(Hear, meets with Russia , to get up and speak of tbs govern- opinion ou t of doors had been brought by the war ? No hear.) There is another observatioa occurs to me, and meet of that country as my right hon. friend did in his man seemed to know his friends, or to have confidence in that is, that if in peace time the stipulated number speech of last night This conduct, however, is not con- any public man. That was ens of the consequence. were exceeded by • ship of the line or so, England would . geed to my right bon- friend: the same game of seesaw they had to look to if any disaster came upon the not go to war to prevent the infraction. (Hear, bear.) has characterised the members of the goverment through- country. He would not allude to • bad harvest It is admitted on all hands that the interests of England in out. From time to time they change their tone and their (which might Heaven avert), but there were circometances this matter are remote and contingent, while those of arguments to suit the press and the feeling of the people which might place the country in peril because of the want Austria are direct and immediate. Bhe has a deeper in oat of doors. And so obvious is the alteration which a of confidant in public men. How had that arisen ? He tenet thus either Francs or England, and let me ob few leading articles produce, that it might be supposed if must say that public men bed shown too iittle . self-respect , that the position of Austria at the abrupt close ef the nego the same thing happened in some other enntry, end had yielded their judgments to the dictation of others. tiations is not that which it was at the commencement. • people of less disownment than ourselves, What wore they there foe but to study public questions, I think that the observations made last night by Wit 'shiest secrets oozed out and were communicated and why were they not to give the public the advantage of the hon. baronet the member for Hertfordshire, were most to thus newspapers perhaps by some lady friend—that the their deliberations and convictions. lie believed there was judicious with respect to Austria, who, under trying chum wife possibly of some cabinet minister drew front her but. much want of an open, frank declaration of opinion by stances , has throughout been a faithful friend to England. band and divulged to the wife of the editor of some leading public men , wh i c h had induced a want of confidence in (A laugh.) the stands on • narrow isthmus between two journal the fact that: there were two parties in the cabinet— them. The public had gone hastily for the war, raging seas, the barbaric fierceness of Russia on the one • war putty and a peace party, and that the puns party, The publis had had very erroneous notions of the character side, and the high military spirit of the Western Powers on which was t h e wea k er , require d t o h e w hipp e d i n t o su b• and objects of this war. The tone of public opinion and of the other, and is thereinto entitled to the utmost forbear- Mbeillik. (Hear, hear.) So completely have we seen the the pier, when this was broke out, showed the greatest ance from us. I hold that peace is the paramount policy of ignorance and arrogance as to the enemy we had to contend nesse in the tone of the government accord :with the England, and it is also the paramount policy of Austria, and altered tone of the leading articles of the newspapers from with. It did not sum like a nation that was going to in- therefore she is our natural ally. We ought to bear day to day that the use I have imagined to have vade three thousand miles off an empire of sixty millions of w i t h h er infirmity and consider her position, and above all taken lace in another country might almost be PeoP,le- He (Mr. Cobden) would rut his cue entirely upon things not to quarrel with her or come to • hasty rupture. sus to have happened here. (" Hear, hear," our infatuation in invading Russia with a land force. If we (H ear , h ear .) I t hi n k we are entitled to know what were analr " Vughter.) What had been the conduct of bed congaed ourselves to navaloperations—whichhe believed the proposals that Austria made to England end France at the noble lord, the member for London, for in• was what parliament would hire approved, if they had the close of the conference—(hear, hear)—aad regret that stases ? We find at the conferences at Vienna the acted upon their own judgment, although when he proposed the noble lord was not present on the 28th April. I quite noble lord assumed the most polite and agreeable ee- to move a reeolutloa to that effect he could not get twelve wee with the envoys in rejecting the proposition meanour. There was no bard language used there, but numbers of the House of Commons to support him—would of the rears narrows, but I entertain quite another any of tkime discontents have existed ? We should have o pi n i on w ith res p ec t t o the when he returns to the House of Commons we find him proposition of the 26th falling back upon the old strain, and talkin g about Russia sent forth the grandest naval armament that ever left these of April. It was not an ultimatum, but both Count Boot establishing large fortificetions on the German frontier and shores, the mint perfect models of naval architecture—a and the French envoy thought that ' it:contained within it magnificent spectacle; there would have been no disease, no in the Baltic, and of her iatriguee in the German courts. elements of adjustment. M. Drouyn de Lhuys having given Bat did it never occur to the noble lord that the obvious starvation and misery, no watt of discipline on board our thi s op i n i on p rocee d e d t o Paris, as the noble lord proceeded reply to, these; statements was, " Pray which of the four ships; sad if they did not come back to us bring ingilloti, to London, but having had the advantage of discussing the }dots was Wended to rectify this evil—(cheers)—which because no enemy showed himself, they would not have propos i t i on w i t h t h e R uss i an envoy. It is rumoured, and of these great forti- brought back any of them would have met the difficulty tales of misery, mismanagement, the rumour is confirmed by statements in the public papers, flostion ia the Baltic, and prevented Runs from interfering and diluter- (Bear, hear.) But we had attempted that the French envoy was so well satisfied with the list and oneraneking on Germany ?" There is no guarantee in too myth, and without knowing the difficulties which proposition as moulded by Austria that he submitted it to his Huse fintr points naiad the rebuilding of Bomamund— Wan to be encountered. Huh ss he blamed Lord government, that the Emperor of the French was not unwill three kno protection for the Circaosians. The independence Region for not making • road, and others far the edema- mg to accept it, and that its rejecioa took place through the of the world is forgotten when the noble lord is at Vienna, but lesgentent of the war* he maintained that, in seeding an influence of the English government. (Hear, hear.) I Is resalled to his mind the moment be returns to the House army to invade Russia, we had poured for ourselves in- only, it is true, speak from rumour, but surely we wall of Commons. It was whispered that we were fight- evitaMe disaster. Posaibly we mien repai r that disaster ; bound to speak out on this occasion. lam no admirer of lag more at the wish or Francs than our own. but the emdition was undertaken by our government in Russian tyranny and ambition, but lam the sincere friend Bat MN we Ma that _the war Wail not going blind obedience tea cry oat of doors, when the men who o f peace on h onoura bl e terms , and shall regret much to find on against the wish of the r won people ? He would were Galled the statesmen of this country ought to have ex- that • favourable opportunity has been lost of making peace ask gentlemen who were acquainted with and had noised their own better discretion. We once sent an army without prejudice to the national honour. I hear much 000nesions in Franceiwnether they had not private informs- three thouand miles to subdue our colonists in America. Oar about fighting for prestige, but I must say that a had but two millions and • half or three millions more d angerous d oc t r i ne tion on this point, for of course there was not much informs- armywas laid down. I think y we must adhere to • definite object, and adhering to that 1 tion to hs got from the prose in that country. He heard from canto people to contend with there, but it was miserabl privets warms that the war, which was never very 'echo. rsted. There we e m i ameuegeruest , so do u bt, at that object, I think there was something in the curiously elastically liked in France was now more than disliked. time ; bat would the molt have been di ff erent however balanced petition of the opposing forces w hi c h ma k es t h e Then what ware the wish es of the French government ? He long the war might have bolls prolonged ? Napoleon I. present juncture peculiarly favourable for peaceful negotia ti Althoughe . (Hea l r a . m ) Thea friendbrinou t r o o ß f u tg a l , an l d th ir k st tha be t t considered. hehonour t w e al a s Ze en to tati a ag sa ati bjec d t ai thi ta n gra b a s ad tkd hat th h e e n al o a b a le ah lo a rd at i b a a vadad ynete- tha ll ß e u std a t e sar ra the a re t th 4s aa lcal7h af an hal d f ri:uon atili t: t h a lm =Mon) that he should treat of publicly, be- proposition so fa r, — , :' I will strike at the heart of the Russian of Runs ought also to be considered ; and if you push her as he did that it was his duty to speak unpin. an d I will t ake securities for peace in the capital of to the wall, you will not get peace, and may not be able to out en a question which involved great events and Bseela." Bat we went not to the hurt of Russia, and we overcome her paasive resistance. I wish that all party hel lo& be fraught with calamities to the country. H e did net go with all Europe at our back, as m g may be banished when dimming this goes saw Is this point—was it the wish of the French govern- he did—for he bad armies drawn from ever, tin. Swami cords—we should lift up our hearts meat to p on with the war ? or was it the wish of our country, from the confines of the Baltic to the sho r e such feeling when the interests of great governmeat ? It had beet industriously spread abroad that estremit, of Italy i pen had Prussia and all Germany nations and the cause of humanity are at stake, and I the Fronk dynasty bad so mush at stoke in the war that foe the base of his opens, having ia his , am on all the confident we shall but serve that enutry which is so dear the aseenowat se Frame dared not withdraw their army strongholds of the German frontier ;he Ci a r a:Austrian to us all, by endeavouring to ob • the peace moment our moo bade Sebesierg ed wierient of the effect which such army to support his flank, and led the legions of almost honour has been satisfied. (Hear, hear.) I believe that an a step wooldhavesa the Tres& people. Now, his hon. friend the ist ynnental nation. Yet wakes, what was We result opportunity occurred for i restoration when pa d mid himself bed Wit osoodusioatea to th em to h ; and had WO an MOOD ton ppose that ROODS DOW ta restoration when the proposi tion of the 26th of April was submitted, . and I shall regret ea pea that the Freadigevernment had stated to heel, NI, that example to stimulate and _encourage her .' to the latest hour of in life if I gnd owe teet moo dined to amp ey either alt e r na ti ve patriotism, woman snow • iess stubborn rumens to us MOO has been wholly l know that lento prrtanity of the dis eke lastpreemeds. He was not she did to Napoleon ?It was his (Mr. Cobdea's) .firm lost now that the feeling of of this country piqued t e "We W of the pease/kip of a sestet enclave. They all belief that we had entered ones a teak the is at the want of military success, and the oreurrenee of some d• knew of what wee abed a mode; of the supporters of the dreareeta the most difficult end arduous that a I do not think "dna ; but noblelind Is t. Of that occasion, when the Wien Mr undertook, and that we should have to put lost, the d' that all the money we have or wasters we have suffered,oill have been thrown inshieleedi @MOW were about **able ea assaddentiai forth awn them twice the energies we bad put forth, and sway , sh d old pease be proclaimed to morrow - think oda Not no repsiessweehes ee the "spore we r e seat MN thin twit* th e Min w e had sent. and speed MIS th at E b .i eu d• eu d H • he both ow. I -.._, Shod asked if it s waling that ea bather Ohm Woo Ike •°, we bad °Post fo of* year. before we tdo hope ' t h 'if usta vs bun taught lessons ; was at, pests is restored, there will be loss made by e Pesosh pigmares M k elellilei in our object. Tun, ought not the Howe of in this n° offoloPO to sue OM they were village to swept tend Osamu= to tell the people of this eoustry this fairly, and country , too suddenly, to reduce our naval or military establishments. If you mean to defend Turke y , differest frees thew Wood by H. Dome Si Limy% =bib' either than °°°°°°°ll° their ozoirliorelsd snticipa- aside the hop o r d- • i e b• b ar ...4mi an d that these b e d bee, a ropoesi to seems to die d en to tins ? What =lett the nest event be ? Suppose we got , when su inua mg your naval and m tory purse, peep *teeevoreawat. The noble lard refuted to answer asseasts frost the Crimea for whin we were not prepared ch a weak power calls, in its lest Woe. of wort I . mity, for the assistant* po ii auxiliaries, in Sr eilbseels be was ranch pressed. He (11r. sooooloOf of the cholera bus pt UP" Cig lush • No Sea to the length of• time she depends on tech Puppet aria is the ruin generation •4 l ton, well u the intonation fever—and who could tell that we become more sad more dependent upon it, anti e t ; should not have the *gm too. living ea our withers did end she amain ezist without it. Therefore, sph,tb; ° to spots the mhos of a - vast graveyard. Would it not be adopt the principle of hesitation, or my co w „ peal r yol I wise, therefor*, for gentlemen rather to subdue the spkits am of opinion that the maintenance of the iod p e "LI of the people , — not that he would have their courage sub. of Turkey will Weems day by day more difficult, a deed in a righteous canse.—and to let them know fairly Clarendon warned the Turkish government, eht, — ":n what was before them ? What he blamed the government wished to rush into a war against the advice of Irr a . -- Z.' for was this—that they had dealt falsely and treacherously England, that her independence will become ira ---"" with the people. There would be a beery reckoning for and her ruin Inevitable. (Hoar, hear.) I b e li e , i rlible them in this matter. The noble lord the member for Tiver- great test of statesmanship ton, in one of his declamatory heritage's, said, .. The people to make adequate provision for the fall of the Tarkithiese-- of this country is my merle force." What was the noble O ill re in Etsrope— to Mite care that Constanti nople do.. -- - • - * a f ea the sae ids into the bane of Russi a sad oe: n ot other into the bends of the Weste rn P owers. ' That% h.: Hove, will be the test of future statesmanship, and licy cannot be sustained un the E gai e h t ...,2,l" upholds it be backed by less an adequate lish force by by land, and, above aU, by an ad atom e ta led (Cheers.) Now, sir, It is unnecessary for se tunable the house with any further o • ts I have endeavoured to express my own opinion d' Moly and openly, and in doing so i have endeavoit*P lN44. .l ava saying a word which could give offence to a 4 member in this home. (Hear, hear.) I n cocci - .. 1 have only to thank the house for the a t tention wit h my observations have been heard. (Cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL admitted that great emits had bete attained, and many reductions in the preteasesas ot Ruda conceded since the war began, but nothing W as yet 40.111 or proposed which offered a p ermanent security t Turkey against future aggressions. This th e Allies wa tt bound to obtain, while Russia, it seemed, wou l d not great the requisite terms, except perhaps under the prewan of severer reverses than she had as yet sustained. " I believe" said his lordship, " that it is not at all a question of the bonus of Rorie. I believe, on the contrary, that R iai4 conceives that she has no reason u the war 'etude to is flounce those aggreesive projects which she so sedulouily entertains, which she inherits, which she lays by fora final, but which Catherine entertained, which the Emperor Ni. choirs at the latter end of his reign entertained, and which the present Emperor has almost avowed, oa his testae ta the throne, that be means to cherish. (Hear, hear.) B at h I believe to be the question, and not one of offended dig. silty. Then we come to the very serious question, a p es which I must decline to give that very definite anew which some hon. gentlemen asked, pnrsomposi l namely, do yti are forced to continue the war, if you find ea reallyonly tesirimves security whie yo to u T e si e s si ksy r , eall y what is 705, oaM b. ject ? My answer must be general, that the object is EA as it has been, the security of Turkey against Russia, au therefore the security fee the peace of Europe. I tali " believe that if Russia was allowed uncontrolled ta work her way towards the capital of the Turkish empire, making small progress perhaps in 1855, greater in 10 yea, ' hence, and more still in 20, I cannot, I repeat, but believe that if such were to take place, the independence of sa. rope would be insecure. Every one has seen tbat which had lately appeared in the public journal, with reference to an interview between the Emperors Napoleon and Ake. ander, in which the farmer, placing his band ayes Constantinople, said, "Constantinople, no—it k tha metropolis of the world." (Cheers.) Those hon. gentling* may have no fear of Russia, but I remember a gn a t authority, the Duke of Wellington, saying, that if in ad. dition to the force of Russia in the Baltic, she bad, by means of Constantinople, command of the hiediterrausa, she would be too ste.ng for the rest of the world. (Rea: hear.) That, I believe, is not a recondite opinio n o f nate; men, it is the result of the generally pervading feeling at this country. (Cheers.) That feeling is, that we ought au to allow Russia, by simulated peace or open war to obto the conquest of Constantinople. It may be said that the terms which we proposed were not effectual for the amis. meet of the proposed object, but if that were said, we should be blamed, not tor our ambition, for es asked nothing of Russia, and not for our 'ague, bat for our own moderation in not 'skin; ;stronger WNW (Hear, hear.) There is no doubt that other planate besides those of the limitation of the fleet might hue heat demanded. But it has been said with reference to the third point, when we proposed that the preponderance of Rests in the Black Sea should cease, that the particular mode el carrying oat the object involved in this pciat must depts. on the events of the war, and could not be aetermined until those events were proved. We were, however, forced by circumstances. I have stated that when we were to nego. tiate we had to specify the security which we wished to have. We must consider according to the clean t of the war what is the security we ought in haute • to ask. It has been said, to my surprise, that I bus spoken as if I wished to make this a war of nationalitiee. , I I do not retract any speech which I have made, but I MTV an said a word with such an object. I mentioned P,' lord doing new, to ' apply any reserve force is support of his expedition ? (Cheers.) The noble lord the member for the City of London said, " We will have 180,000 or 200,000 men, Enflames, in our army, and foreign levies to aid them." But now where were they ? There had been the same child's play all through, and until the last moment. What he (Mr. Cobden) asked was, that government should deal more candidly with the public. He had noticed, in the history of great and stirring times, that if ever the mass of the people became cruel and revengeful, and rushed into unreasoning violence against the government, and against its natural leaders, it was invariably because it believed that it had been betrayed by them. There was nothing by which the loss of public favour and great public calamity might be so easily risked as by attempting to conceal from the people the full amount of the difficulties and dan- , gen which impended over them. It was in this belle 4 and because he (Mr. Cobden) would not be in the slightest degree responsible for what might happen in the matter, that he (Mr. Cobden) wished to speak on the present occasion. He warned hon. gentlemen that there, was no institution in this land which would be safe from the reaction that might ensue from the too sanguine confidence of the public in this undertaking. He had seen the spirit east of doors taking strange and sadden freaks of malice and revenge under the sense of bitter mortification. Those who had been the first to clamour for the war now met together after the disasters of the first campaign, not to blame them selves for the share they had in promoting it, but to denounce the highest persons in the land as respon sible for all that had occurred. And when he witnessed the tone which was assumed, in spite, as he believed, of su• perior knowledge, by many who, in high places, had pandered to the passions of the people to gain a momentary triumph at the risk of future disaster, he must say that some of those persona had deserved the retribution they sustained. He was much struck by the language used in a meeting at Derby, which was heralded by the London press as the be ginning of an agitation that was to extend all over the land— s, meeting which the hon. member for Derby attended. lie would read what was said there, for it might be a good and wholesome lesson. A gentleman who moved a resolution the Rev. Mr. Griffiths snd who had been one of the strongest advocates for the war at Derby, said—" If we are to be overtaxed for unjust and unequ .1 laws, jut because a few coronetted heads chose to have it so, then the time is come when the working men of Great Britain must look the aristocracy in the face, and demand the why and the wherefore, and not be content with a shillyshally answer." At that sentence there was great cheering. ' One word more. There will be more money wanted ere long. The young prince will want a wife, and then a marriage settlement. I say, let him go and get it from his father and mother, who have hto keep them all." The seconder of the resolution, Mr. Parkinson, said—" It was the duty of every man to endeavour to destroy the system under which they bad been so mis ruled." Now he (Mr. Cobden) was one who had been considered to have dealt not always very gently with the aristocracy of this country, but he should say to that rev. gentleman, from what he had observed of his proceedings, that whatever disasters might happen in this country, there was no member of the aristocracy whom he should consider so responsible for the miseries and disasters which might happen u that indivi dual. (Cheers.) So far as he (Mr. Cobden) was concerned be would not truckle to the popular spirit of the moment by joining in any cry which should divert the minds of the people from what he thought should be their first consider 'lion, and that was how far they themselves were respon• sib's for the disaster. which had occurred, and how neces sary it was for them to begin with reforming them selves at home before they reformed others. (Cheers.) But the first thing which men did was to seek for victims when they felt the consequences of their own errors. It should be a warning to those who were possessed of influence not to stimulate such passions as had been pre vailing through the country, unless it were clear that some adequate occasion existed, and that some sufficient object would be attained by war. If we had the Russians be sieging Portsmouth, he (Mr. Cobden) would not stay to talk to the House of Commons about what should be done, but he would go himself, and if he could do no work in the go IDr. he would work in the hospital. (Chee If such field, emergency existed, be would net ask statism& and parliament to allay the excitement of the peo• ple then, but would encourage their utmost exertions. But inch was not the case. We bad undertaken to invade a distant and powerful empire. The people of this country anti those who guided them had not properly estimated the magnitude, the difficulty, and the danger of such an enter prise. It was therefore he had made this long and he feared this tedious appeal to the house noon the subject. Lord HARRY VANE, Sir S. NORTHCOTE, and Mr. VAN 'imam spoke in favour of a pacific policy. Mr. COLLIER, Major REED. Mr. F. Sctsx.iv, ;Mr. CROSSLEY, and Mr. J.H. rittlximoisa urged the vigorous prosecution of the war. Sir .1. GRAHAM, adverting to personal topics, declared that while in office he had administered his departments with all practicable energy, and then proceeded to justify his own conduct in having concurred in the declaration of war with the pacific sentiments be had more recently expressed. " I am myself (he said) a party to the limitation of Russian preponderance in the Black Sea pro- posed to Russia ; but having been a party, I am bound to say that it was never looked upon as an ultimatum. (Rear, hear.) Neither was it submitted to the conference in that form, for it would be monstrous to begin a con ference with an ultimatum, and not having been an ultimatum, we now come to the consideration whether, this being the only ground of difference, it was prudent to break off the discussion. The result of all the dilatations which have taken plaoe in this house con vinces me th►t it was not. (Hear, hear.) It would be im possible to overlook the observations of my hon. friend the member for the West Riding, for truly steam has made an immense difference in these matters. If you give Russia of bar four ships, with this aid she • objc. ..'oland, it it true, in my description of the power of Russia. It wu u. emery to do so to show how difficult it was to obtain by negotiation sufficient terms of security. Is merely stated facts with regard to Poland ; I pointed out the 111e11/11 said to conciliate the peasantry, and the methods devised ts take away young men from their country . These wen facts; and am I to be forbidden in Otis house to state face bearing upen a subject under debate ? (Hear.) It may bi said that an inference was to be drawn frcm what I said. If any inference was to be drawn it was that the cum of Poland was one which was hopeless, and therefore that it would be madness in England and France to take up the cause of that country. But be that as it may, Inmate of the opinion that it will be necessary to obtain some material guarantees. (Hear.) .This we have to consider. So far u these four points provide a security for Europe I think we should make them our objects. It is an advantage that Russia should be compelled not to renew again those treaties with Turkey which bound Turkey in a mere from which it wishes to be free. It is also of importance that till navigation of the Danube should be open. It is ale of importance that the Sultan should give such priviieges his Christian subjects that they may be attached to his go- vernment, and ready to defend the Turkish empire against its enemies. A right hen. friend of mine has said that at war the duty of English statesmen to provide for the fall of Turkey. Now It has been the view of English and foniga statesmen, and it is certainly the view of the statesmen who now preside over the councils of the Austrian empire, that there is no reason why the independence of Turkey :boa not be maintained. Those were the wards which I heard from Prince Metternich and from Count Buol. Austria statesmen naturally take great interest in the arks of Turkey, and hence their • ' on this subject are ee titled to considerable - - I think that Opinions cone.-- weight. I must say that . Austria has in these negotiations been sincere in endeavor. ing to discover means for security against the sortssirs ambition of Russia. Everything which I saw at Virtu induced me to believe that, averse as Austria was to war, and anxious as she was for peace (perhaps unreasonably so), she was equally anxious to obtain with ourselves the object' which we have in view. I feel myself that the politica d Austria, having many enemies in Germany, is one which is very critical; and much as I wish that the present war rosy be brought to a speedy conclusion; much u I dein that Austria should take part with the allies, I should most sincerely deplore the happening of any event what should tend to weaken her power, for I believe the not. once of the Austrian empire to be necessary to the braes of power. The object, therefore, in continuing the um would be always to have the end in view. The means te that end would of course vary with the war, and bend it would be idle, ridiculous, and presumptuous to point or now what ought to be the terms of peace. But this I think has been secured even by the present negotiation, that Iron this time forward Turkey will be considered as one of the powers of Europe, forming part of the system of the balms of power; that her internal legislation will be left to her, and that her independence and ictegrity will be recognised. I Is forced to admit that I do not think we are likely to rake pew until we have obtained the term which will be Wets Turkey. It should be remembered that we are &skirt for no object of our own, that when this peace shall be ear eluded we shall have obtained not one acre of territory—it is for Turkey and for the general system of Europe that we are working. I will now say a few words with respect Is this particular state of this question. We seem to too begun the debate upon a motion of the right hon. member for Bucks (Mr. Disraeli), and because Whitsuntide holiday' were coming on, and the conferences were net closed, 0 have arrived at a point when the Whitman' holidays are over, and the conferences are closed, and hew these various motions and the amendments tending to dtiro the present state of affairs. (Hear, hear.)l own it appean te me that it would be far more regular if when the mean is prepared to bring down the final acts of the conform' and those propositions of Austria which my right hon. fend is so anxious to see, as well as the decrees made by the PIP nipotentiaries, we should then move an address to td crown upon the subject of the future prosecution of the est (Hear, hear.) Those honourable members who may entertain such an opinion upon the subject would hoe Is opportunity of moving an amendment which, if carried. would force the government into an immediate renal of negotiations. I have already spoken to my cob!. friend (Lord Palmerston) upon the subject, and I know that he is of opinion that such a course would be far more rep jar, and in accordance with the ordinary mode of proos: due in this house than the discussion of the various &moo' aunts. (Hear.) Of course, if the house chooses toyo with the debate, we cannot prevent it ; but the mar, which I have suggested would be more regular, aid cull lead the holm to decide aye or no, are we to give any O a what support to her Majesty in the prosecution of the est Mr. ROEBUCK then moved the adjournment of the dr bate to Thursday. (Cries of " Divide," end " Adjourn'? Lord PALMERSTON—I hope that my hon. WO" , ender the altered circumstances in which we stand, rag that we have been informed that the Conferences torn cloud and that negotiations are at an end, will• pot persist in his motion. We are a t present dimming series of amendments in which every hoe. gentleman oil feel considerable difficulty in determining how ha ohm& vote. (Hear.) The question which I think it is MO; should be disuse/fedi', how has the government candid"' the negotiations, and whether or not the house, under the circumstances in which the country is plaited, is waked" give to her Majesty its support in the prosecution of to war. The course which I should humbly propose would be to agree to an adjournment fo r s o me f e w d a ys. We shall , , in the Nurse of a d a y or t wo , rece i ve th e protocol o f the conference which took place yesterday. We shall then . in a position to advise her Majesty to submit to podiums; the papers which would show the state of the negotiations" the latest moment, and then the house will be in a puid° l to determine upon the mine which it might judge St to follow. Mr. DISRAELI said that the suggestion of the nob" lord appeared most unsatisfactory. (Hear.) 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