The Press. — London, England, 1853-06-04 00:00:00

102 solemn pledge and obligation to consider the Established Church of Ireland as an integral portion of the coustitutia in of the whole empire. He should resist the proposition simply, absolutely, and singly am the duty he owed to that wawa Church of which a branch was now established in Irrbuid." Mr. GARDNER believed that anything was better than the existing system, and supported the motion without much approving it, or liking the quarter whenue it came. Mr. NEWDKOATE $l4ll/ in the motion an organised attack upon the Protestantism both of Ireland and England. The mover represented, de facto, a foreign power, acting upon the prompting* of Archbishop Cullen to carry into effect the resolutions of the Synod of Thud - es : " Would the honourable member fur Mayo disown the fact that he was instructed by Legate Cullen to pursue the course he had taken that night r Mr. Meoaa have no such instructions. (I laugh.) Mr. NEWUKOATE : Then the hon. gentleman admit► my case. Mr. Mount:: I say I have no such instructions. Mr. NEWOKOATI: : Does the b► n. gentlemen disown the Instructions of Legate Cullen :► Mr. Mona,:: 1 really do not know whether I have or not: and, what is more, I do not care. Mr. NY.WDEGATE would suppose then that the honoura ble member was acting in contravention of the wishes of Legate CnUen. Mr. Newdegate proceeded to cite proofs of the avowed hostility borne by the Church of Rome to the Protestant Church of the United Kingdom, and de- Aired the present motion a part of the system invented by the Roman Catholic hierarchy to render all government impossible except one which should obey their behests. Mr. PHILLIMORK found in the history of the past no argument for either side, but only a perpetual stimulus to religious feud. Dropping that part of the subject, he inquired simply whether at the present moment the Irish Church fulfilled its high purposes, and was useful and pleasing to the people ? To this query all his investigations had led him to an swer No. Mr. R. Moon); denied that Irishmen were disloyal, and believed that the members of the Protestant con gregations in the island had largely increased, while the revenues of her establishment were but barely sufficient to supply the spiritual wants of her men►- bers. Mr. H. Datimmoxn had long ago proposed a plan of his own. This was to place all the funds of the Irish Church in the hands of two sets of ecclesiasti cal commissioners—Protestant and Catholic respec tively—the revenue to be apportioned according to numbers wherever there was a mixed population, and to belong entirely to the Catholics in parishes where no Protestants could be found. He looked upon the matter as one of merely political justice, and con tended that throughout Europe the Roman Catholic laity were showing their independence of the priests. Mr. Mtuntae considered the Established Church the great grievance of Ireland. The great body of the people derived no benefit from its ministrations, and as existence was a complete barrier to the inter change of good feeling between Catholics and Pro testants. Mr. WHrrsstn►: cited numerous doeuments to show the spirit in which the chiefs and dignitaries of the Catholic Church had assisted in, and commented upon, various political movements, parliamentary measures, and electoral contests, for a long while past. That spirit, he contended, was one of bitter hostility to Protestantism, and bad led them before, and now in the motion before the house, to palter with the oaths and violate the undertakings both of the Act of Union and that of Emancipation. He felt strongly and sincerely on the subject, believing fer vently that the Papacy had two great objects to carry over the world—one the destruction of Protestantism, the other the overthrow of parliamentary govern ment. Mr. LucAs conceived that the question was beyond all argument, and involved a matter which would be conceded as a simple right in any assembly that wished to do impartial justice. He proceeded, never theless, to argue at much length in support of the motion. Lord J. Ress►:t.r. combatted various propositions which had been offered both for and against the mo tion. He denied that any political degradation existed in Ireland, and that the Catholic people there felt or had expressed any deep sense of grievance as arising from the Established Church system. He denied, on the other hand, that there was any just plea to be founded upon the Act of Union, the compact between the two nations, or the parliamentary oaths of mem bers, to forbid such motions as the present being introduced and entertained. But he then went on to oppose the motion for reasons of his own : " When we come to this practical question, whether or not we should make some very great change with respect to the Established Church. I must own that I think the experience we have had of late years should nut he lost on us. It has not been lost on me. I thought for a con• siderable time it would be of great advantage, and tend to peace and concord, if part of the revenues now belonging THE PRESS. to the Established Church of Ireland were devoted to pur pose! of education, in which persons of all relii6oua !animations might participate. (War.) 1 found, however, in the course of ditocussitons in Parliatuent and the country, that neither side were willing to consent to such a com promise, and that while one aide steadily and consistently resisted the smallest encroachment on the property of the Established Church, the other as loudly demanded the en tire and tend abolition of the revenue* of that Chun+. 1 have been obliged, therefore, to consider what course Parlia ment will take—how we eau remedy that which is alleged to be a grievance, how better promote contentment among the petmle of Ireland. And lam sorry to say, while I can not hold out the ',resent state things as a matter which no, wider present arrangements, altogether satisfactory, I see the greatest difficulties—lsee the greatest *redo ons—l see more than that—l see no toundl peril in the, alteration that last been proposed. (Hear.) It has been amid, Let us have equality ; in whatever mode you shall please to give that equality 1 shall be contented, provided it is equality.' There are two modes in which ecc lesiastic' equality may be obtained. Otte is, total abolition of the revenues of the Church of Ireland. Now, lam not prepared to take that (slump. I have never been willing to consent to the total abolition of the revenues of the Pmteetant Church. (Hrur, hear.) Setting aside the great change it would make—the innovation of established rights—the violation of long standing engagements, we cannot abolish the revenues of the Established Church in Ireland without striking at the root of ecclesiastical endowments, and violating the great principle On which all ecclesiastical endowments are bated. ((leen.) The principle of ecclesiastical endowments may be a wrong principle, but it is one in which 1 am in favour; it is one which has hitherto been maintained by the Par liameut 4of this country ; and 1 cannot believe that you can alsolialt it in Ire land without leading the other parts of the United Kingdom to a similar footing. (Hear, hear, hear.)" Proceeding to disprove the advisability of the second course which had been proposed, namely, to redistri bute the Church revenues among Catholics as well as Protestants, in the ratio of their numbers, Lord J. Russell admitted that such a course had been adopted auccessfully with regard to the Presbyterians in Scot land. But he contended that the eases were not parallel, inasmuch as it was the inherent character of Catholicism to be dominant and political : " If the Rennin Catholic Church resembled the Presby terian Church, although it would mot be just that the Bonnet Catholics al Id have as the Preslnieriane have ii land a national church entirely devoted its them, yet I can imagine a large endowment could be given to the Rumor Catholic subjects in Ireland; but, unfortunately, ecclesias tical equality cannot there be attained. ( Hear.) it has been but too evident of late years that, looking at its pro ceedinge in foreign countries—booking at its proceedings in this country—looking at that Church acting under the direction of a head, himself a foreign sovereign—the Boman Catholic Church has aimed at political power ; arid, having aimed at political power, it appears to me to be at variance with a due attliehment to the Crown of this eountry— rheers )—with a due attachment to the general cause of liberty—with a due attachment to the duties that a su b ject of the State sh o uld perform towards that State. ( Load Arent.) lam far from saying that the members of the Roman Catholic persuasion in this country are not attached to the liberties of the country. lint lam convinced that if the Roman Catho4ie clergy of Ireland had increased power given to them—that if they, as eeelesiasties. could exercise greater control and a greater political influence than they now exercise, that power and that influence would not be exercised in aceonlance with the general freedom which prevail,' in this country—f cheers I—but1 —but that neither in respect to political circumstances nor in respect to political subjects would they favour that general freedom ominf iscussion, that eney, and that activity of the human d rg d who belongs to the spirit of the constitution. (Hew.) lam obliged to conclude. therefore--to conclude unwillingly, but to cowhide decidedly—that the endow ment of the Boman Catholic religion in Ireland, in place of the establishment of the Protestant Choral in that country in 4.011111.4• MM with the State, is not an object whieh the Parliament of this country ought to adopt or to sanc tion.(Cheers.) These opinions of mine may lead to COW elnfliMal Unpalatable to MOW who belong to the Roman Catholic Church—they may lead to persistence in a state of things which I quite admit to be anomalous un4l un satisfactory. But I sin obliged, /14 a member of the Legis lature, to consider most seriously, in the present state of the world, that which is hest adapted to maintain the free ' dent and the permanence of our institutions. (Hear, hear.)" Mr. Balmer listened with sorrow to a Tory speech from a Liberal minister. It was an argument unjust, baseless, and insulting to support the maintenance of a grievance iu Ireland on the ground of apprehended peril from its renewal to the Established Church of England. That argument tended to make every Irishman a Repealer, and covered with shame every English Churchman who adopted it. For himself he disliked all Establishments : " He believed that no Churches were particularly favour able to civil liberty. The Church in this country no doubt was to a large degree more tolerant than 'others, because the people had gained more civil liberty here than elsewhere, and had, by slow degrees and incessant conflict, to some degree subjected the. Church and the clergy to the influence of a more wholesome public opinion. And, if the Catholic prelates and priests had too midi power over the people of Ireland, he attributed it entirely to the fact that the course of legislation which that house had so long pursued had hound priest and people together in one loom', and had thus done much to subject the people to the unwholesome influence of the priests. It was impossible for any impartial traveller in that country not to see that this question of the Church Establishment was the pestilent and poisonous question SATURDAY, which tmnbled all the Racial relations of life, and made it impossible now, as it had done for the last two hundred years. that the country should be in a state of tranquillity and contenuneut. His advice to the Irish Liberal mem% hers, both Protestant and Catholic, was that they should make this question of religious equality in Ireland the cardinal our in their political movements. Let their mem. SIM% be practical. Let them bring the information they had upon the subject before the people of England, and although there was now in the pubhe mind u feeling adverts to giving complete religious liberty to the Homan Catholics in Ireland and in England, they might rely upon it that these fevers would ruts away, and that calmer and better times would come." Mr. Fast:mum repudiated Lord J. Russell's im putation of submersing to a foreign authority as an insult to the Roman Catholic clergy and represen tatives in that holm. Mr. Minna: having replied, the House divided For the motion .Against Majority INCOME•TAX BILL. This bill has passed through committee, the greater part of Monday and Thur s d a y evenin g s being occupied in discussing its various clauses, and the many amendments upon them, of which by far the larger proportion related to Ireland. Mr. SPOONER moved, as an amendment to the 31st clause : " That nothing in this act shall be construed to compel any occupier, being a tenant fur the time being, to pay the arrears of Income tax due by any former tenant or occupier of the same lands, tenements, or hereditaments, or to deduct and retain kola his landloni out of any subsequent payment of rent such arrears, unless the landlord shall have received his rent fur the period for which the urrear is due." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER strongly ob jected to the proviso. It was a just principle that the landowner should be held liable, and the reason was that he had a special law for his benefit (whether fairly or not was not now the question), whereby he had powers and security in regard to the recovery of rent which no other creditor was pos. sensed of. On a division the amendment was negatived by a majority of 145 to 09-70. Mr. LOCKHART moved, upon the 33rd clause, an addition, providing that a deduction shall be made for the amount of parochial rates, taxes, or assess ments in Scotland, which , by statute or custom, are payable by the landlord. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted that this was a case of inequality : " The subject, however, must not be regarded from an isolated point of view The inequality complained of would be found to be only one of a mass of inequalities, which would balance each other. Suppose they were to allow the burdens chargeable on the Scotch landlords be. fore they paid income tax, the English landlord would say that he was treated in au extremely hard and tmequal man ner. If there west to be a set of deductions from the rental the first deduction ought to be in respect of repairs, which were lighter in Scotland than iu England. (No.) Were the sums paid for repairs in Scothutd, on an average, as large as those diaburacd in England?" Mr. LOCKHART : Certainly. The CHANCELLOR of the. Euro:qui:it was of a contrary opinion, for the system of leasing in Scotland involved the obligation to repair. Mr. LOCKHART :It d o es nut. Mr. 13.(n.i.n: said the right hon. gentleman, by his argument, only met one injustice by another ; and Mr. SNOLLETT contended that the question of repairs had nothing to do with the amendment. The committee divided : —Ayes, 42 ; noes, 1111: majority against Mr. Lockhart's amendment, 50. The committee afterwards reverting to some earlier clauses which had been postponed in order to their being remodelled, upon one of them, the 13th, being proposed, which made the duty under schedule A, in Ireland, on rateable hereditaments, payable in the first instance by the landlord or immediate lessor, Mr. I. BUTT moved an amendment, to limit the immediate liability of the landlord to cases where the an nual value was under 151 . , a nd beyond that value the occupier to be liable in the first instance : The amendment was negatived on a division, by 170 to 11l votes. Mr. CAIRNS moved to add to the same clause s pro viso, that any landlord or immediate lessor in Ireland, charged under schedule A , may elect to be assessed upon his actual receipt, and the duty shall be there upon computed on a sum not less than the amount actually received by him within the preceding year, without the deductions heretofore a ll o wed under schedule I), but deducting poor rate. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to this amendment, that it aimed at a system altogether exce ptional and tended to bring back the old abuses of self-assessment. Upon a division this amendment was also nega tived, the numbers being 66 for to 04 against. The CHANCELLoIt of the EXCHEQUER proposed several new clauses : " The effect of the first was to provide that where a land lord or immediate lessor of lands in Ireland, assessed to the duty under schedule A, had paid the same, and it should be proved to the Commissioners for Special Per.