The Express. — London, England, 1855-03-09 00:00:00

lades presented six petidose an_ gm MOW of Derby. Lnee leMa, IMO s Mil upon the same eet A, biM 11111111 • it was rey4 • i Mooed time, eft. to a melt esLiollttoei wit/ the nesiestof the sable new the !em of the government, whole net commit hien- Mete en of the bill, but who thought , se gnat nnelibeee * e wers ender the impression that they inibeed a and an injustice, they were entitled to as Inquiry. inquiry was retracted during the session, left bee* esanufaeture was not oven approached by ♦Bttessomilteih As 11111/Mlll somber of petitions sew Webs me of grievance was still mis t re = l a s i:4 Naas . The petitions on this matter had bees by nearly 40,000 persons. He proposed now to la literally the same bill as last seism. The people elms pinned of their low earnings and extremely degrees= ilition occasioned by the eztravagent from 'their wages by . their employan:V ills by the middlemes between their employers and thentieless. stated that these stoppages were arbitrary, somertain, ri a% a:maim—that they were governed by no rule, that they differed in amount at different times and in different plum; and that they were entirely irrespective of the material de. livered, since the full stoppage, for rent of the kettle s less' dame had to be paid when materials were delivered, Ili ball work, or for a small proportion only ; Wien of stopping wages were unlimited, and were used • means of competition among the masters, UMW*" filet of depressing wages throughout the Use', the IBMS mespoiese of the employers underselling Whew, sad Semeefilgag • general reduction of wages. They stated that the amount of these redaction was 40 or 100 Iper cent. on the value of the frames upon which they were levied; and that, by opening a source of gain not proportioned to the work required, but to the number of frames employed, it became the intereet of the employers to collect the great ossible number of workmen without reference to wha tes t they: p wanted ; that the employers thus took advantage of the distress of parents and of the helplessness of oung persons, to collect numbers together, not in well regu lated factories under proper control and superintendence, but in the shops of the middlemen, with no discipline and no care of morals or health ; that insane parts of the manufacture, this opportunity of making unfair profits prevented the most economical mode of working in large establishments under due superintendence from being adopted, whilst in other branches of the manufacture, which were suited to the domestic condition, it substituted the middlemen's shops for the wholesome mode of working in the holies. They stated the good effects that would result from the bill of last year, in relieving the framework knitters from the de pendant condition in which they were, and in placing the instruments of their trade within their reach, wh they could be obtained by hire or purchase, at the fair market price. These representations wen not made only by the workmen, but last session some petitions were pre• seated, setting forth the same view, from some of the prin cipal masters. The case had been pleaded at the provincial omits es different occasions, and, at the suggestion of the aemm;arthey made an appeal to the Court of Queen's r e, they whether this practice, being is het a payment of wages otherwise than In money, did not come within the prohibitions of the Truth Ant. The ease was argued before Lord Deanna, whees judgment, unfortunately, was not favourable to the workmen. It appeared that the facts were very ha- Tombs:dr laid before his lordship, so that he was under a mistake as to the nature of the practice. The object of the bill which he (Sir H. Ilalford) would propose was to bring those stoppages of wages within the Truck Act, which, looking to the consistency of our legislation, he thought there should be no objection to do. Sir G. GREY said he felt bound to offer his opposition to this bill. The hon. member said the object was that there should be a full isquiry as to whether there should be legislation on the subject. Now he must say the proper course to be taken, if the house thought it was not in pee session of sufficient information, would be to institute the inquiry first, and, as he said last year, not allow the bill to he brought i sa id read &mud time, affirming the principle, when they at the same time they were uncertain whether the principle ought to be affirmed or not. lie be lieved that what they were attempting to do by this bill was altogether impracticable. He was pee kiss of the bill of lest year, and he understood this to be the same. It was proposed to regulate by tot of parliament the price to be paid for frames, end thereby . to regulate the price of labour. He believed that was impracticable. If any further inquiry were proposed into the grievances of these people, he should have no objection. The house read the bill a second time last year, avowegly . with the object of sending it to a select calamities for inquiry. The committee sat tall the end of the session, and made no report, but recommended that they should be re-appointed early in the present session. If the house thought fit to accede to that recommendation, be had no objection. The house divided— Ayes 5B Noes The motion was therefore lost. THE BALTIC EXPEDITION. Mr. MALINS rose in pursuance of notice to call the at tention of the house to the naval operations in the Baltic, under the command of Vice-Admiral Bir C. Napier. (The gallant admiral was present, and occupied • seat below the bar during the debate.) The hon. and learned member said that he had had considerable hesitation in bringing the sub ject before the house ; but it involved considerations of such importance with regard to the honour of public servants, god with respect to the discretion of the government, that tastily been requested to bring it forward, he had not felt himself at liberty to decline the task. The house was well aware of the circumstances under which Sir Chas. Napier was appointed to the commend of the fleet in the Baltic rather more than • year ago. It was fa the month of Fe bruary, 18.51, that the government determined to equip a Beet for the Baltic, • fleet which was universally admitted to have been the finest that ever left the shores of Great Britain; and they then proceeded to execute the task which it was so imps ratively their duty to perform, namely, to select for the command the most distinguished officer that could be found. At that time the Admiralty war presided over by the right boa baronet, the member for Carlisle (Sir J. Graham), sad the present prime minister was the Home Secretary. I Upon the right hon. baronet the duty of selecting the admiral principally devolved ; and the nation received, certainly with great approbation, the announcement that Sir Charles Napier had been designated to the command. The govern ment of that day felt so proud of their selection that the , Immo would **member the appointment of Sir Charles Naples was celebrated by a dinner, to which be would only ' now advert for a single purpose. The propriety of that ' dinner had already been fully discussed, and he (Mr. Mains) did sot thin k it his duty to renew that dismount ; but still he felt bound not to pass the proceedings by altoge ther without notice. The dinner wen presided over by the I noble lord, now the prime minister; and it was attended ' by the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham), by another • member of the government, the Chief Commissioner of Works (Sir W. )dolasworth), and by a great number ol ' hon. members sitting on the other aids of the house. ' He (the hon. and learned gentleman) now iskered to the 1 subject merely for the sake of those exprMelsae of ' tion at the appointment of the gallantsdmiesl, is which the 1 noble viscount and the right hon. be *sett Waled The noble lord (Lord Palmerston) at the osesimiss et /1411 . epeseb said : " My gallant feted having bed the geed het... to succeed in all his operatiose, we have geed ,e to bops that he will be as successful in future se le Ms bees is 1 times cwt; and, as bearing upon that paint, 1 meson m ' train from repeating an observation which woe made to tee by a very discriminating and calm-minded friend of al who pawed some time in the East at the period to whicln am adverting. He saw a good deal of my gallant friend, and when he came home he came to me to give me en ac count of what be thought would be interesting (considering the position I then held). of what he had observed in the East. When I mentioned the gallantry and daring of my friend, he said Yes, all that is very true ; but there Is another quality whisk Napier possesses which is as valuable as either of these, and as important an ingredient in success. w a man in my life who calculated so many moves betorehand.' (Hera, hear.) Now when a man calculates his moves beforehaad, sad has the spirit to carry out those moves which bas been exhibited by my gallant friend, I thiak that any country may safely OMNI its fate and fortunes in his hands, and I feel amdidart that he will not betray them." (Hear, hear.) 'lfs lips hes. baronet (Sir J. Graham) spoke in • st.ll mon lefty strata. He said :—" I will not weigh the precise ingre dients of valour. My gallant friend was distinguished for remarkable dariag and bravery; but even then, at that ally period of his career, he evinced the possession of the qualities which my noble friend ascribed to him at • later period—that is to say, he was always able to look several moves before him, and he was, in my humble judgment, sot oaly a gallant, but I must lso add he exhibited the qualities of • discreet commander a . Moor, hear ) He hes my satire confidence. I have rejoice- in the opportunity, es es great an occasion, of commending him to the appro- Mem and choice of my sovereign, and the selection 1 beim to be one that will be approved Ay mestry. I %O is m art it approved of by his p sad Whoh Mal UMW may be changed, yet he goes sommeader, os set of a body of pressed nue, but of welnatesee, sal tbill O all nee axial things may have Owed, there as sem *lap Aids are still assitasged, sad alledZordhles ese ss l c te allastry of our MINIM sad to which is by IN fr ond. does not go feel" under deal moose of conducting a Minims war, Stae a il i forth an to ce ord f at o po th w e er i , nd an erCe r = t of , l E ho usgoe :uc to . , as lawless a spirit of aggrandisement as ever db. ruler of any country. My gallant friend says Cr i eden he gets lam the Bane he will declare war. Now I„ se Tint Lord of the Admiralty, give him my free con sent. I hope that that war may be short and sharp; act), being entreated to his bands, 1 as sure it will be decisive. And thee we reformers —although polities are secluded from the naval profusion—may be proud that the British in both is the Beams and Baltic has bees scalded to two sock thespians as Dundee sad Napier . (Great laughter sad cheers.) I know that they will be tree to their wintry to the l distaat when ast extremity ; but I hope that th time may not be far you may perhaps kindly invite me to esiebeste the ennui of my gallant friend. (Loud laughter.) This evening is a happy augury, sad when nest we meet, I hope it will be to cele brate his brilliant success." (Laughter and choirs ) Now, would anybody have supposed, that *bomb on the 7th of March, 1064, the gallast admiral was thus proclaimed to Europe Ind the world as the fittest mu that could be frond . gp awake the MOM et t o CI, pt, wheelie' of ,eielft hie ler, err approbleffier of his Asset em illi t h ly sy sip * the commellesisal et atMs hasend of beueebevited to meet the rhAt eselleams at s Ilswiset to Wein* his names, be sheohl be noshed by that right hon. pages= with enteegt end enatm eelp. sad should be illemired from his enemandl (Ohms) He (the him. sail leaned sessibet) Wire& that the been mould En stub shes MW I& :p ol lterosel this subject es arsenal %weeks sailing the adeillsel. On the esateary, he ft for es a quirt 's& in the honour servants. rad he trusted that the hone would agree .11,71 that the lineament could not thus insult our hest public men and our most gallant conemenden without impugning their own character for that far sightednees which they were bound Is poesese (Hear, hear.) Well, the pliant admiral hoisted his flag and proceeded to the Baltic. After he arrived thither, a cornspoadence took plan both of a public and private chariots'. Letters were written to Sir C. Napier, Meth by the Board of Admiralty and by the Fint Lord of IneAdmiralty in his private, or rather his individual ea. pesky. expensive of his most marked and unqualified ap probation of the gallant admiral's conduct from the day he left Ragland down to, at all events, the month of Septem ber. Now when the house conside red the difficulties with which the pliant admiral had to contend—for, though his Met was undoubtedly the finest that bad ever left these agree, yet the Crews wen to a great extent raw and Indio *En* and the navigation of the seas to which they were bawl was the most difficult in the world—when the house somenehered how the gallant admiral surmounted all those dlllieellies end kept his fleet entire, they would think that he led dose all that tbs government could have expected of Mim e eud that he ought to have been received with honour end treated in a meaner worthy of the position he occupied. (Hear.) It was now necessary that be (Mr. Malins) should Fehr to some of the letters written by the First Lord to the Cadmiral • and he would at once anticipate an objec arehish might be made to his adopting that amine. It 'WO% be said that them were private letters. (Hear.) HAIG. Mains) had attentively considered the question; and he weld not regard as private a letter written from one public slur to another oaths public service,and calculated to infiu men the conduct of that public officer. Let him suppose a cue. the First Lord, in his individual capacity, had =le the Admiral and to bi not to delay attacking Creneeeift beyond the Ist of J a ne ? Suppose, too, that the Admiral, in consequence of that letter, and against his own jadgment, did attack the place and fail, would it be held that that was a private letter and that the officer was not m justificatio nmelded ? (Hear, bear.) He Oar. Kalish) could not subscribe to any such opinion. But he bedaatitority upon this point. Some time ago it pleased he* demon on the other side to appoint a committee, wyM ked been called the Stafford Committee—a committee that was to inquire into the conduct of an hon gentleman who was a distinguished ornament of that (the opposition) side of the house, with regard to his management of the doekyards. The first question raised befon that com mittee was, whether letters written by Lords of the Admiralty, by the Secretary to the Admiralty, and all sorts of persons in their individual capacity were to be considered as private itommunications ? It was decided by that committee, which was presided over by a very distinguiahed authority, the noble lord the member for Tetnes (Lord Seymour), the , than 'run should be read ; aad fUrthelr, that no person under examination should be allowed 10 protect with regard to any eonversatiou that might have taken place between himself and any public servant by the plea that it was a private con. venation. He (hir. Malin) thought, therefore, that be had very high authority for saying that the letters to which be was about to refer ought not to be coasidered as private. (Hear, hear.) With respect to those letters he might here remark, that he had examined them very attentively, and that he should very carefully avoid reading anything that might give intelligence to the enemy. It would be remem bered that Sir Charles Napier left England in the middle of Mann. In • letter of 10th of Apri the right honourable baronet (Sir the J. Graham) said,l that be was entirely satisfied with the proceedings of the pliant admiral, and that he relied on the gallant admiral's prudence not to knock his head against stone walls, pre maturely, or without a fair prospect of such an advantage as would compensate for the inevitable loss of such a step. This prudent advice, however, was subsequently departed from. if it was proper at any time to attack stone walls it was surely in spring ; but when winter had set in, and hurricanes might be expected, then the Admiralty entirely altered their course, and they wished the "anent admiral to attack the forts at that improper season. (Hear, hear.) In a letter of the Ist of Hay the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham) said that he had a gnat respect for atone walls, and had no fancy for running screw line-et-battle ships against them. He begged the gallant admiral not, because people at a distance were foolhardy, to risk the safety of his &et. He expressed an opinion that both of two places he named were impregnable from the sea, and more especially Sweab3urg, unless there was a large land force to co-operate with the fleets; and he concluded by hoping that the gallant admiral would not foil in the &ablest duty of a commander, namely, to do what he knew was right, at the risk of being accused of doing wrong. (Cheers.) He (Mr. litalins) did not read these passages for the purpose of blaming the right bon, baronet. On the contrary, he thought it sound advice both for the Fint Lord to give, and for the admiral to follow. (Hear, hear.) What he did complain et was the conduct of the government to the admiral, because having adhered to their prudent advice during the summer and part of the autumn, he did not, at their suggestion, think fit to depart from it when winter bad set in. (Hear, hear.) On the 9th of May the right hon. baronet wrote I hope that Bomanund, at all events, will be assailable." On the 15th he cautioned him that no such experiments must be tried if the Rai sins oud not come out of their harbours but con tinuedw l to sculk behind the batteries of t heir forts. It was made a matter of reproach to the Entrees by the right bon. baronet tha they would not coe out and give battle on the open sea t but if they had don s so, Sir Charles Napier was there ready to meet them. On the 20th of Jane the gallant admiral received a letter from the First Lord, in which the right hon. baronet said that he was pleased with all the gallant admiral's operations ; and re commended him, if the Russians would not came ont to meet him, to return below Helsingfors. Again, on the 26th of August, the right hon. gentleman w rote— „ lam more than satisfied with your proceedings. I am delighted with the prudence and sound judgment you have evinced." That correspondence very distinctly showed that, from the time of Admiral Napier leaving England, down to the end of August, he received the re potted and unqualified approbation of the government. (Hear hear.) He would :proceed to see whether anything l bad Uken place to disentide the gallant officer to the same absolute and unqualified approbation. Of count, he would set") into details ; he would mention no particulars which amid give information to the enemy. The Admiral bad been directed to make a report on the practicability of at tasking Sweabourg ; and on the 20th of June, be made a report to the government and enclosed with it a report, Namwith his own, of a very distinguished officer, l Chins. They both ageed ia • particular Mk of attacking that fortress, end • said, that if per means were afforded them, aced if the were made at a proper season of the year, *eiy bad no doubt whatever as to the saner of that aperetre• But they both agreed that it should be at the season of the year, and that that season should not =end the autumn. the attack en Boannund then were present the French fleet. the French army, and the English fleet. On the 4th of September the French army sailed from the Baltic to return to France ; and the French fleet remained only till the 19th of September. But in the middle of September the Admiralty were desirous of know lig the opinion of the English aad French admirals upon thepeeticability of attuning the great port of Sweaborg. Amordingly, Sir Charles Napier was directed to have a mlaferenes between himself and the French admiral, to con sider what should be done. A plan bad been submitted to the government by a distinguished engineer officer, Gen . Pens; also by a distinguished French engineering officer, General Neil; and the English and French admirals were desired to hold a conference, and to take those plans into so deration. Accordingly, a conference or consultation was held on board the Duke et Wellington, the adral's ship, on the 12th of September. It was attended by teee English admirals, and by the admiral and vice-admiral of the French fleet. They considered theee reports, and gave their opinion im WNW, which was forwarded by Sir Cheers Napier to the Admiralty ; end they all unanimously concurred n this, that the season of the year was too late to allow such an operation to be justifiable then. A single pessege in that report was to the effect that the season of the year rendered it entirely impracticable. That was en the 12th of September. After that the Admiralty, feeling ea anxiety N end on this subject, again wrote to Sir Charles requested that a second consultation should be be*. Upon receiving that letter, Sir Charles again wrote to the French admiral, requesting his attendance leggin on baud the Duke of Wellington. The French admiral ds slimed to attend a second conference. (Hear, hear.) He arra, in answer to Sir Charles's letter, that be had already Elds opinion, that his mind wee made up on the sub tend that he declined to attead a second conference. was on the 18th of September, and on the 19th ;he Free& fleet returned to France. Therefore, after the 19th of September the poCtion of Sir Charles Napa was most materially altered. The French army bad arrived there en the middle of June. He had had from an earlier period the powerful assistance of the French fleet ; the former left on the 4th September ; the latter on the 10th. He was thus reduced to is own fleet All would agree that if Sir Charles Napier, with the English fleet alone, was strong enough to any on any great operations in the Baltic, after the return of the French fleet, it was • very unneessaary thing fee the Fronk army and the French fleet to go to the Bade at ell. The great operations in the Baltic well this *performed • they remained so to thationr. Oreestadt had sot lee; taken ; Swisher' had sot bees takes; sad though Bontarsand had been de =d o = was leis esstered bistuy a , g i st op:ratio% by Sir jy,ps_luubtsdly, th. grea t opiv ati ous had psi. he Asa, in order that ey might be rinfleilated with oneelee s it was certainly a i m oat prudent 411intbst these opmerdese. whatever they were, should be isitelehes with the wafts pail* feria, both naval and mei while the mobbed ash of the two nations gni ft the Bahia Tbe Pies* admiral declined is dim' a meted eorshiterie. eir Charles Napier, rusks;, set Win able le empty li*ally with 161 lareleMieas of ski goveinsasst, did what be Ibis& Ihe ant beet_ this, be ealled a sonten or co& eff lie S. edeiMo. Os the 19th or 20th of tia_lbomemes immell bold oa beard the Doke oi szarbllas of Charles Napier &ad three 4161 — atirals, two of WINS had outmoded the *soon erieb Ad Womb adages's, Lod se* Igg one who had n bees cen egs, Medea Ryan o Martin. They ot again coo sideted We plea Wit attacking Sweaborg ; and they case Weakaeady to Ike eareelnuon " that the season of the hex late le rosier any sue: °Medea *tillable' apies had been direciod to make • second of Sweaborg. He have sent home, on the SOW Orissa, a detailed gen for the attack of that fortress— a-iforeekeleo of Admiral Chad*, agreeing with him—which I pins, if adopted, they felt no doubt would be suecessful. And it was only due to Sir Charlie Napier to say, that ft appeared the very plans be submitted to the government on the 20th of June were now being adopted to the very letter—the plan of the government being to tend out this spring a fleet under another admiral to do the very things recommended by Admiral Napier. He stated, on the 20th of June, that provided that plan were carried out he had no doubt whatever of arc am On the 26th September, having only hie own fleet at command, he made this second reoonnaisaace of Sweaborg ; and he communicated to the Admiralty a plan by which it might be attacked. This was the point upon which the difference between the Admiralty and Sir C. Napier bad arisen. He could not read that report in detail to the house ; but many members had seen it ; many more would do so ; and it was impossible for any one to read it without seeing that Bir Charles submitted to the govern mint two distinet plans for attacking that fortress—the one of which he said wee uncertain of success. but the other be considered certain to succeed. But with regard to both he expressed this opinion, " Either, at this moon of the leer, is impracticable, when you cannot dip nd up in the weather for two hours ; and I do not knew how many of the ships might be lost." However the government beiog under the impression that Sobastupoehad fallen, nothing would do but that some forums in the Baltic must fall too. If they could only take Sweaborg or Cronstsdt, or some other great fortress in the Baltic, the government could have come before parliament with a success unparalleled, and the country would have been satisfied that such a ministry never existed. However, the admiral did not concur in that view ; he remonstra ted. The French and English admirals had told the government in September that it was too late for any great operation ; and everyone knew that September in that region was equivalent to November here, that October there was like December awe, and that the navigation was the most dangerous in the weld. In answer to the observation of Sir Charles, that the weather could not be calculated on for two hours, die government wrote to him, " You may choose your day end your opportunity." H was a board of Admiralty, elm. of them naval officers, s gin Whitehall, writing to We admiral In the Baltic to carry on a great operation against a Russian fortress, at a time when be had told them truly that he could not depend on the weather for two hours—" You may choose your day and your opportunity." ' (Hear, hear.) This was not a private le tter from the first lord ; it was a letter from the Board of Admiralty to the admiral. If men in business lad been so forgetful of the eiscumstaners with which they had to deal, disaster and ruin might be expected to fall upon everything they under book. As though to put an end to all doub t, the y added, " The attack may be made towards the end of Oetober." Having been told that the middle of September was toe late, they now told the admiral, with his diminished force, that the attack might be made towards the end of October, " with the least danger of an attack from the Rus sians at Cronstadt." What would the house think when he told them the ground of that ? It happened that be tween the freezing up of Cronstadt and of Sweaborg the re was usually an interval of 12 or 14 days • ' and he was to choose some flue morning in that fortnight to commence this opera tion, when the Russian fleet being frosen up in one place, he might attack the other. (Hear, hear.) These things would appear perfectly incredible if merely narrated; but when in the form of correspondence, signed by the Secre tary to the Admiralty and by the Lords of the Admiralty, there was no longer any reason to doubt. Could it be wondered at, under these circumstances--Sir C. Napier having pledged his professional opinion that even the middle of September was too late, and finding himself goaded by the government to do impracticable end unsafe things, things which he pledged his opinion if be h ad done he should have left the fleet behind him—that ea the 10th of October he wrote to the government to state that, in eonsequence of this correspondence, he felt that he had lost the confidence of the government, and that be was perfectly ready to resign his command and to return home ? At the same time he said that he would not be urged, by any opinion prevailing at home, to undertake operations which were impracticable or unsafe—that he had the honour of England committed to his charge in that fleet—and that, in accordance with the advice given to him by the right hoe. gentleman during the spring end summer, be had re frained from entering on au impracticable enterprise in the winter. (Hear, lieu.) If the papers were produced, it would be found that the whole difficulty between Sir C. Napier and the government had originated in what he de signated their goading him on to these operations in Oc tober. lie remonstrated ; tend this lad to a correspondence. Everybody knew the great ability of the right hon. baronet, and no wonder that the correspondence was conducted with ability on his side; but the gallant admiral also evinced very high ability, and showed that he was as capable of protect ing himself with his pen as the nation believed him to be capable of protecting them with the fleet. The correspond ence certainly bordered on an ang7 one,but there was nothing in it to justify the government in treating Sir C. Napier as having forgotten his duty. On the contrary, had they care fully considered the circumstances, they would have come to the conclusion that Sir Charles had not only performed his duty to the best of his ability, and refrained from entering on any clap-trap undertaking to gain popularity in England, but that he had evinced the very quality for which the Prime Minister gave him credit, that of being able, more than any other man, to calculate so malty moves beforehand. (Hear, hear.) Instead of taking the first move suggested to him by the right hon. baronet, he had calculated the moves, and come to the conclusion that it would be a most false and dangerous move. He saw further than the govern ment into the game; they ought to have given him credit for doing so, and to have honoured him fur the advice he gave, and for not acting on the imprudent advice which was given to him. (Hear, hear) This correspondence conti nued from the 4th of October down to the 6th or 10th of November ; and then the admiral expressed a desire that it I should be brought to a tenninati ,n. On the 26th of August, the right hon. baronet had told Sir C. Napier—" We are more then satisfied with all your pro- ceedings." Bomarsund had fallen en the 16th, and this i was just nine days after. Therefore, for tr.s government to attempt to nosey that, and to express disapprobation of any thing which had takes place before the 25th August, wee a ~ most unworthy proceeding. If anything could sting a mili- , tiay or naval man to the quick, it was any reflection on the ( exercise of his discretion in commanding fleets or armies. I (Hear, hear.) The true principle of carrying on war was . this—to select a commander-in-chief for the army, or an ad- ' Weal for the fleet; to say to them, " There is the enemy • , yes know we desire him to be destroyed, or to be harassed Ice every possible way ; but the mode of doi n g this i meet he left in your discretion." What would they say to 1 We lisentart for War, if it were found that he had written i sotto Lord Raglan desiring him to take Sebastopol on the km of April next ? (Cheers and laughter.) The govern- 1 meat wrote to Sir Cborles Napier at the end of October, I telling bin that they were satisfied with his reasons for not taking that fortress ; but, as if determined to have a quer- 1 rel with him, the letter contained this passage : " Cons'- , &brag the conflict of authority contained in the different meets naiad brought before them, their lordships cannot e express satisfaction with the decision , telosa ilm ‘los net to attack Sveaborg immediately after the fall of Bentenun." He apealed to the holm whe- Wes any commander- d p in-ebief could receive such a ; letter as that without the greatest dissatisfaction— , whhout feeling that he no longer enjoyed the ' maldssee of the government ? This was a disapprobation l i et preaseftss of which they had previously approved. We yeast Wen that Sir C. Napier should have felt great diesatiefaction and that he should have expressed it. The eurespondence virtually closed on the 10th of November. Sir C. Napier landed at Portsmouth en the 17th of Dec., sad he immediately came up to London and had en inter view with the right hon. gentleman. Considering the terms on which Sir C. Napier and the right hon. gentle man bad parted, the gallant admiral might naturally have imputed a cordial reception from the right hon. gentleman ea that occasion; and it would seem that the riga hon. gentleman himself considered the gallant admiral entitled , te it from what he said when moving the navy estimates. On that occasion—namely, on the 16th of February lod— ate right honourable geotlemaa in Now, I really must I say at, on the whole, the operations tke Baltic appear to me to deserve the approbation of the house. Bonarsund, the most important naval position, fortified strongly, sad is 1 a manner which showed that there was an intention to easy 1 the fortifications to a much larger extent, has been der sireyed. The naval arsenal clue to their capital was visited 1 by a force inferior to the force which they blockaded. Bemis , was frequently offered, but battle was declined. Up to the , last moment that the weather permitted their force was , blockaded by an inferior force. Never did an operation display _Roes seamanship or gallantry. Not a ship was ; loot. Whatever defisieuses there may have been elsewhere, , the blockade of the Baltic at least has been conducted with ; energy, skill, and gallantry ; and the pressure brought to ' t bear upon the enemy, you may depend upon it, , has not been alight." The right honourable ntle- man further stated that Admiral Napier was wgehims; , dismissed nor censured. Now, be thought the right hos. gen tleman must have entirely forgotten what passed whoa he made that statement, for when he read what took place Oa that point, he thought the house would entertain no doubt that he had been dismissed, and also censured. As to the reception which the gallant admiral met with at the inter- view on the 17th of December, be mast of Course rely upon the statement which bed been made to him by Sir Charles Napier; but he believed that statement to be perfectly and strictly awarate. The gallant ' admiral assured him that the right hon. gentleman received ' him in a maw that was all but insulting, that be coldly I held est Ids head, but said at once, " I duties to have any Issavaliatitla with you en the subject of the operations." The ohms admiral returned to his ship, the Doke of Wel fttene ea pie aims day. and he there received the following letliss Ode* the 32nd of Feb., which letter, he submitt ed, mialinented W a dismissal from his command. The letter des esesbeilis times terms, and signed by R. Hand's and W.Crewpeel "The Baltic fleet, on its return home, having lima dispersed in the several harbours of Great Bejaia, and part of it being under orders for swain in the Black See and the Mediterranean, you are busby required limed, to strike your flag and come on (Laughter.) Such were the gradate and anew/aging terms in which the meet distinguished naval olden of Great Britaia bad been greeted on his return home from a great public monies, whisk he c :educed to the entire satisfaction of the 'evenness& (Rear, hear.) That the gallant Odom should ensprimd--tbat he should be more than surprmea—see. he should be disgusted at the emptiest of such • communi cation, was but natural. He, however, took time to consider what he should do, sad on the 26th of December, he wrote the following letter :—" Sir,—l have the honour to acknow ledge the receipt of their lordship.' order directing me to strike my flag, and with regard to the same I have to request lof their lordships to inform me whether I am to consider that my command is at an end." The letter of the 22nd of February might have been couched is terms which were customer, at the Admiralty, but all he could say was that they were terms in which none of them would dismiss his dontemic servant. (Hear, bear.) But he was mewed that it was against all usage, and that when Sir James Saumares returned with his fleet from the Baltic, because it would have been unsafe to remain there any longer, instead of being ordered to strike his flag and come on shore, he was directed to bold the command till the next season. Well, on the 26th of December, tie Admiralty replied to Sir C. Napier of the 26th, and in this letter the Admiralty thought fit to do that which they should have done before—namely, to tender him some thanks. They should have dons this when they wrote the letter telling him to strike his flag and to some es shore. (Hear.) But it was the misfortune of the government never to do the proper thing in the proper time. (Hear, hear.) The tender of thanks emus too late. The answer sent was as follows : Sir,—With regard to your letter of yesterday's date I am commanded by the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty to acquaint you that the order you received to strike your flag and to come on shore is always the termination of a flag officer's command." (Hear, hear.) Yet, two months after this letter had been written, the hon. and gallant mem ber for Gloucester told the house that the gallant admiral had not been dismissed. (Hear, hear.) That statement was repeated • week later by the right hon. gentleman. Unless the government, amongst the other novelties which they had introduced, were to introduce • new language also in reference to the war, the meaning of the letter of the 22nd of December, adhering to the ordinary meaning of language, was a dismissal, and the subsequent letter of the 26th decl ared that it was a dismissal. (Hear.) But the letter went on to say—" I am directed by my lords to take this opportunity"—(why not " that" bpportunity 2)—(hear, I hear)—" of expressing to you the high sense their lordship entertain of your exertions during the period of your service in command of the Baltic fleet." This he called too late. The Secretary of the Admiralty bad addressed the house 1 since this correspondence had taken place, and every one could see from that speech that if he was not then out of place he expected to be so soon—(hear, hear)—for he told the house that there had been rank mis management of the army, but that no one could find fault with the navy and the administntion of the Board of Ad miralty. When the hon. gentleman made that statement they were not aware of this correspondence. If he had known that the veil of secrecy would be lifted from it he would have scarcely ventured to say that no one could find fault with anything which had been done at the Admiralty. (Hear, hear.) The hoc. and gallant officer the member for Gloucester said that Sir Charles Napier had shown • bad example to the fleet in making the speech he did at the Mansion-house dinner. He (Mr. Melina) was not going to defend the discretion of Sir Charles Napier in making that speech. He thought he com mitted a mistake in going so far as he did. He was charged with saying in that •peech that " the fleet was badly manned and worse disciplined." That speech was made on the Bth or 9th of February. But he found by the correspondence that passed between December and the month before that speech was made, that Sir C. Napier remonstrated with the government because they had not given their approbation to the officers serving ander him, to whom he was indebted for the safety of the fleet, to whom a nd nation was indebted for • disciplined fleet instead of aniaciplitied one. He therefore remonstrated with the government that he was not made the organ of tendering public thanks to those officers. (Hear) He said that the officers of the French fleet had received the thanks of the French Legislative Chambers, and that he bad to learn that the services of the English fleet were less worthy of being commended. (Hear.) What, therefore, was the meaning of saying that the fleet was badly manned and worse disciplitud ? Not that the officers neglected their duty, but that he had this additional diffi culty to contend with—that there was not a single captain in the fleet who held a command in the Baltic before, and therefore that the difficulty of the undertaking was en hanced a hundredfold. It meant that the fleet was hastily manned— that the men were incapable of going aloft—and that men were put on board as • iilon who were not in fact sailors. He thought he had mid enough to show that Sir C. Napier had been not only demise. d (rem his command but that he bad been censured. The hoc. and learned gen tleman concluded by moving for a copy of any correspond. sues which has passed between the Board of Admiralty, or any other member of her Majesty's government, and Sir C. Napier, since the 20th day of December last. Sir T. HERBERT 'seconded the motion, but in so low a tone of voice as to be almost inaudible. He was ander stood to say that the Admiralty might have been technically right in the letter they wrote to Sir C. Napier, but that an officer of his position demanded more consideration than be appeared to have received at the bands of the government. He did not approve of the Mansion house speech, or of after-dinner speeches. Yet the services of , Sir C. Napier were so many and so brilliant that he ' re ceived the approbation of Sir Alexander Cochrane, of Sir R. Stopford, Sir James Gordon, and other distinguished officers; and such was his own respect for his gallant friend that he sincerely hoped the statements he made would turn oat to be perfectly correct. It seemed to him that it was impossible for his gallant friend, in the circumstances in which he was placed, to have done more with the fleet under his orders. It was to be regretted, for the sake of the public interests, and more particularly for the interests of the fleet, that this misunderstanding should have arisen between his gallant friend and the hon. gentleman. The circumstances, however, were such that he thought his gallant friend should have the opportunity of vindicating himself. (Hear, hear.) The motion of his hon. and learned friend could not well be refused on the ground that the cor respondence was private by a Board of Admiralty that had itself made most liberal use of private and confidential cor respondence is the case of the dockyards. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. GRAHAM said—l have great pleasure in assuring the house that it will not be necessary for me, in the answer I am about to make to the hon. and learned gentleman, to detain them for anything like the length of time which he occupied in opening his case—(a laugh)—because, sir, I have not come down here prepared to read extracts from public despatches. (Hear, bear.) Much leas do I come here prepared with garbled extracts from private letters— (hear, hear)—and still much less am I prepared to enter into the details of private conversations. (Hear, hear.) Neither have I the advantage of being able to speak from something like a brief of a very confidential nature which II we in the hands of the hon. and I d gentleman, and MIS other hon. members. (Hear, hear.) But in the out set of what I have to address to the house, I wish to refer to the papase with which the hon. and learned gentleman concluded his speech. The hon. and learned gentleman said he wished to vindicate the honour of the country. Now, sir, I think I am not devoid of a feeling of the same kind, and therefore I refer to one passage in the speech of the hon. and learned gentleman which I heard with the deepest rages t. I understood the hoc. and I learned gentleman to say, that the honour of the country was leo dear to him, that he could not but regret it had been lost Black the present war. Now, sir, whether I look to the Black Sea or to the Baltic, I am satisfied that, with regard I to oar navy, the honour of the country has been maintained. (Hear, hear.) And with regard to our army, surely all is not lost. The honour of that army never was higher. (Hear, hear.) That army never met is • enemy on any occasion in which it was not victorious. (Hear, hear.) And whatever may have been the sufferings of our troops, their - exemplary patience, gallantry, and good conduct were such no eine could for a moment assert that the honour of the country did not remain unstained. (Cheep.) The hon. and learned gentleman commented on I the expressions used by his noble friend at the head of the government, on an occasion to which he delighted to refer, I seeing that the greatest proof of sagacity was to look so " many moves before you. I plead guilty to that want of sagacity on the present occasion, for certainly the moves which the hon. gentleman made were not foreseen by me. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) I did not anticipate that to would have thought it consistent with his duty to say that he had read extracts from despatches—(hear)—that he had conned them over —that public despatches of the greatest public importance had been submitted to him— (hear, hear) —despatches which this house did not think it fitting to ask the government to produce, and which, if the government had been asked to produce them, it remained to be seen whether they would consent to such a motion. (Hear hear.) However, I shall shortly state to the house I what think is due to myself. The hon. and learned gen tleman talks of the introduction of new things. Is there anything more new than what he has done to-night (Hear.) With all your experience in that chair, I ask you, sir, if you have ever seen or heard so unexampled a codese as that pursued by the bon and learned gentleman ? (Cheers and laughter.) The hon. and learned gentleman has culled extracts from private letters, without the consent of the writer, and such extracts as, to use his own expression, would maintain the view he took of this case. (Hear, hear.) If sir, there is to be any production of these papers, let it be full and entire ; but before that takes place, I ask the house net to form an opinion from the extracts which the hon. and learned gentleman has culled from them. I have said that I could not anticipate the move which he has taken ; and if I had been asked whether I expected to live to see the day when Sir C. Napier would put his ease into the hands of • lawyer sitting on the opposite aide of the house, and charge the government of my noble friend the member for Tiverton with having treated him withinsult and ocattunely, I certainly would have answered that I could never anticipate such an occurrence. The bon. and learned gentleman has refined to the dinner at the Reform Club. As I have said, I have done penance for my conduct there— gentlemen who sat near me have iallicted punishment upon me. I did, however, say on that Incision that when Sir C. Napier returned h en the Bettie, if I were again invited I would be toffy to MYand sipis to celebrate his return and his brilliant wiser; but be hes not received a dinner on his return, at least I have repelled no invitation—(laughter)— and even if I had received OM OM punishment to which I have alluded has been so seven, and I am so conscious of the Indiscretion I committed, that I know not whether I would have accepted it. Happily I have not been , put to the test. It is very true on that occasion I did express the protest admiration of the proved and distinguished valour of Sir C. Napier, and still more of his discretion. He has confirmed that opinion —discretion, the better part of valour, has net Mesa wanting to birth tad weber) stated to wishmatdwtheelinartepl:: en d byi i i e. ro d app rovedu n o t f t it that comment b on e h en% proved het t,nehor pcne dealing on s observation renii is discretion. f the I Dore. e o e xtracts, gentleman. He told that ustoms Douceuparticularbetween ehtnt calculated ,uda s p en e r fpfn i ator ; :l t e :ye uemp ena hon , w trsii letter sooottw nint committee . heeoe.fanudTh ge ntle m an c val That v es e thma b e e lea rne d produced Won committees* of this house, and he made =See, however, was a judicial tribunal, 1 especial c e;:en o sa i r a i vi u sdgle portions e reference to the em t digmifft night , this nor, I am not cognisant of all the circumstances pa per , ft to 1 fleeted with it, but I think the house will cl earlyca before such a judicial tribunal, and p t te he m e b li e a r n w ce u p making an appeal to the that it is neither consistent with a sense of duty on the part Interest in the future operations of the war that the whole of these documents should be produced. The hon. and Seined gentleman said that on the whole the conduct f fir C. Napier up to the 24th of Se by the government. I have controverted that statement ° . am the contrary, in the letter which ban been quoted it '. stated that on the whole the Board of Admiralty ,did approve of the acts of Sir Charlie Napier with respect to the conduct of the fleet. It generally happens that good workmen do not quarrel with their tools; but Sir C. Napier, in a letter to the Admiralty, stated that the fleet nadir his command was ill-manned, and unfit to meet the Gamy. The Board called on him to specify the ships to ; which he alluded, but when called on he failed to spe c ify I any. The hon. and learned gentleman has contended that the discretion exercised by Sir C. Napier with respect to annals); a strong fortress with an inferior force wee, in the terms of my private letter, a wise discretion. I would never have quarrelled with the exercise of that discretion if the gallant officer had adhered to it. Early in May he made a report that Sweaborg was unassailable by land and sea. He repeated that opinion in July, and if he had adhered to that position not one word of hesitation as to the prudence of that decision would have fallen from me. It is quite true that on the 24th September, when Sir C. Napier for the first time had an opportunity of reconnoitring Sweaborg .close at hand he wrote a despatch which appeared to the board materially to alter the aspect of the case. The hon. and 1 d gentleman says that the appliances for the at. tack contemplated by Sir C. Napier were not sent by the Board of Admiralty ; but, sir, on the 11th of May the gal lant admiral had asserted that the fortress was unassailable by laud or sea. Relying, therefore, on the discretion of the gallant officer, the Board of Admiralty did not see any use tinsending those appliances for an attack. Is i s also quite true, air, as stated by the hon. and learned gentleman, that a difference of opinion existed hetwent the naval officers and military officers of great authority, between the naval cfficere and General Jones on the ores side, and between the admirals and the French generals on the other; into that difference of opinion, I am quite sure the house will not expect me to enter. (Hear, hear.) If I thought it necessary to warn the house of the extreme danger of the course they are asked to pursue in discussing naval operations pending a war, I do not think I could point out a more fruitful example of the dangers to be appro. hooded than has been presented to-night. The hon, sad kernel gentleman says he has looked over the papers eve fully. I believe he is an equity lawyer. I ask the home what it thinks of the justice of a proceeding which calls on me to defend myself with my arms tied behind my back; a sense of duty prevents me from referring to those papers. I have not brought one of them with me, I have seen only a paper marked . confidential," which contains some extracts; and it is rating on them that this equity lawyer, who tells us he is so fond of fair play, came down here, and speaking from his brief, makes an attack on me, when I have not the materials of defence at hand, and when even if I had them, a sense of honour and of public duty would absolutely forbid the use of them. (Cheers.) It is quite true, sir, that the course taken by Sir C. Napier, on the 2lth of September, after ho had for the first time reconnoitered Sweaborg, rhos at hand, did present to the admirals a view en drily different from all communication previously made. It appeared to myself and my colleagues that an attack was possible even on Sir C. Napier's own showing, and that if his force was reunited, he would be in a positron to make the attack by naval means alone. The French fleet had already left, but after a communication to the French government, it was ordered to return, and the wiling vessels of the English, which were coming home, were stopped in consequence of that letter of Sir C. Napier. The hon. and learned gentleman has not thought it as. worthy of him to assign a motive for the orders given by the Admiralty on the 4th of October. lie says the acennt had been just received of the fall of Sebastopol, and that, acting under the impulse of the moment, the Board of Ad miralty gave entirely new instructions. I beg, sir, to give a most positive denial to that supposition. The order was issued the very day af er the receipt of Sir C. Napier's letter of the 25th of September, from which it appeared to the board that if the whole naval force was reunited an im mediate attack was possible ; measures were therefore taken to reunite the force. I have not the despatch by me, I dare say the bon and learned gentleman h a . ; if be looks to the close of it he will see that Sir C. Napier is told he met make no desperate attack ; whether he will attack or no is left entirely to his own discretion. He is waned that if the means placed at his disposal aro adequate, the c 'until Lad a right to expect that everything which vales could accomplish would be attempted; hut he is told that the entire discretion is left to himself. If that passage le not in the despatch as famished to the hon. gentleman he has not been fairly dealt with by having had garbled extracts placed in his hands, but if it is there, I consider he ought to haw read it. (Cheers.) Something has been said of the asser tion made by myself and my hon. friend the member for Oloucestershite (Admiral Berkeley) that Sir C Napier had not been dismissed or censured; it is true that as regards his general conduct in command, and the management of the fleet on the whole, we have had no ground for censure. It is not true, however, that the Board of Admiralty hew not censured ' certain acts with reference to the authority of the board ; on the contrary, they have bad more than once to warn him that the language and tone 110 assumed towards the authorities under whom he was serving did not appear consistent with the ant:carding tion and deference due to the superior power. As regards his dismissal, it is quite certain that admirals who have per formed similar services in the Baltic Sea have received similar orders at the end of the autumn to strike their flags, but it does not follow because an admiral has been ordered to strike his flag, that he will not be ordered to re-boist it : it rests with the competent authorities to decide whe ther the demeanour of the officer in command has been such as to entitle Lim to that mark of confidence. I hope a regard for the efficiency of the service will prevent the house attempting to sit in jade meat on the executive at the end of a nasal cam paign as to whether a particular officer should be em• ployed or not. It is quite clear that Sir C Napier, on the 24th of September, by writing a despatch laying down spina for future operations, took a course which ensured to himself, if that plan was adopted, the certainty of being apes appointed to the command in the Baltic, but it rested with the executive to determine whether on the whole condact of the gallant officer they should appoint him. Sir Chula Napier I have had the honour to koow for a long time, sad I have tie greatest admiration for the gallantry be has dia• played on many trying occasions. (Hear.) These are not mere idle words ; some time since I allotted to him the good service pension as a mark of the respect of the board for hit putoface I se h rv i i v c e es llte b ly ut ha l d sh th ou e l h d on b o e that the tone adopted from a very early period by Sir C. Napier, in his commenting on the con's of his superiors, ea turbulent and insubordinate, and assumed a character alto. getber inconsistent with the relative position of the admire]. honour tir h e o ly ld u i tr i ort di h d y no of the t ol and the board, and which, if submitted to, would have set the worst example to the service. I very much regret, sac, what has occurred. I have not a particle of unkind feeling towards Sir C. Napier; on the contrary, I deeply regret what has happened. I think a very great mistake will he emosamitted if the government consent to the production of this correspondence. If they are defeated it willappor whether it would be right to appoint Sir C. Napier spill to a command. I will not speak of the course he hes pas: sued and the language he has used since he has returned and struck his flag. While angry with himself and tics board he had not hesitated to produce documents 0 ills most confidential nature. I am surprised at the advocate the gamut officer has chosen. He has not asked any brother in arms, although there are naval o ffi cers on both sides ef the house, to come forward and bring this case of odes oppremion before the house. I do not know what view the honourable member for Dartmouth (Si T. Herbert) has taken. I hope he has not supparted the course taken by Sir C. Napier; if so, it would very muchdi . minish the respect I feel for his high character. On the whole, I will leave the matter in the hands of the torero. sent. They will decide whether this correepondence shall be produced. But never in my life have I been more asto nished at the course taken by any hon. member than I have been at that taken by the hon. member for 'Wallingford ts night. He has deemed it consistent with his digoil to act as squire to the gallant admiral when no naval officer would accept the post. He has spoken of his equity and o his love of justice ; what he has given us may be Tel 8 practice in court, but it is not the practice of this horse. i The discussion was continued by Admiral Watcor , _ , l C. WOOD, Captain SCOBELL, BEHEILLET, MT. HIT Me. COWPER, Mr. emi' ROIJOH, Mr. SIINT W INCI. ES the IDE, r ATTORNEY -G ENE RAL, 1 OTWAT, and Sir G. TILER. Mr. M. GIBBON. fld_ ool ' Lord PALMERSTON-4 conies that I have listened 1 , this discussion with very great regret, because I coneider it ir setting a very bad example, when hon. members, who fe ll celled upon to vindicate the characters of profoolt° 6ll man in this house, read as part of their speeches dooms: which they call on the house to say whether or no sot produced. This I look upon as being a sort of begri,,ofl t i l question which cannot be too much discouraged. (nig:, With regard to the motion itself, I think the bower! conclude that Kwould be injurious to the public, o rrice if ts: document now called for were produced, and for my PT shall undoubtedly vote against the hon. sad learned me ._ bar. I think that the hon. and learned gentleman has gam! a mistake in discretion in the coarse which he is now pull. lag, and another hon. and 1 d gentleman .114_2 mislake when led away perhaps by the similarity eb ol lo n he supposed that that wan the admiral me ts h:db°ruetturstoed faxen; sammand in the Black Sea. (A laugh.) The hoe. . learned member should recollect that in this country , 116 ! s. specially in the more northern parts of the island, thOW r many persons of the same name who do not staStd i r_r ? slightest degree of relationship to each other. (A.Ln. O ; Now, air, I have had the honour of a long st3op t o r - A.i. withlhe gallst admiral, Sir C. Napier, the seine ! It' dimeaseica, and ad as Ido his professional and r; Awn regret to me it he Wad in the paw aY" send character, it worl d have been a matter 0 1. Fre.:1 1 . 45 , : Di I'ERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—TBIIIIDAY, MARCH 8. The Loan Cie.liniLLOn took his seat ow the woolack at five o'clock. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Mr. ROEBUCK appeared at the bar with a mew(* tram the Commons trequeat*e that H.R.H. the Duke of d Cam bridge, the Riot of Cardigan, the Earl of„ 01112, Mi Lord Harding., be permitted to attend and giwidens. beton the Crimean Army Committee —Leap was given. THE ARMY IN THE CRIMEA. The Earl of ORKNEY, who spoke in stow tone of voice, rose to call the attention of the house to the reported want of aptitude for their a ituatious in the Janice officers of Mr Majesty's service now on duty in the Crimes. The noble fall proceeded to comment on the conduct of the war generally, contending that there had been great went of vigour, sod that the warning voice of the late Doke of Welliarun had not been attended to. That illustrious paten had always warned this country 'gal nst and • little war, and he was afraid that the present war sub stantially deserved that designation, beim& in truth ted , a very little war. In the first place, we had undem the seri birth of our enemy ; and in the second, we had sent troops to the Critglie, but no army. Aa army was supposed to consist of infantry, artillery, cavalry, waggon•train, and commissariat; whereas, in our invasion of the Crimea, two or three of these indispeneable portions of an army had been left behind, or were wanting altogether; we had also stinted the finance; and the conse quence of all these defects, one most glorious battle, that of the Alms, was entirely without multi. We had left towns piths Beat importance, such as Odessa and Anapa, standing, although the policy of was was always to carry it on with as much vigour as possible. The noble earl proceeded to complain of the pay of the officers, and the want of traiein• in the various breaches of camp duty, citing some cases of blundering at Chobham, to show how in- experienced were our soldiers in the details of field duty. The noble earl eoncluded by moving for certain rehires 'Reefing the aumber of officers lying wounded in the MP peal at Scutari. Lord PANMIIRE had not expected that the noble aid was about to move for any returns ; he had, however, se objection to give them, although he thought that they would be no possible use. It had really been very difficult to col lect from the noble earl's observations the object which he had in view. It would appear Irons the statement of the noble earl that he had been informed—though hem what quarter it did not appear—that the junior officers in the Crimea were not competent to fulfil their &aim. He (Lord Fanners) could only to that no report whatever had reached him to that effect. (Hear, hear.) Nor indeed could he conceive what circumstances had given rise to any doubt in that respect. He bad every reason to believe that the junior officers in the East had acted as English officers always acted—(bear, hen)—and that no class of men in the army before Sebastopol were better entitled to the thank. of their country than those to whom the noble earl referred. (Cheers.) He (Lord Panasurg did not in. tend to follow the noble lord through his different state mate: mere discursive speaking on such a subject cculd do no good and was not conducive to the public service. (Hoer, hear.) He might, however, say thus much , that the go vernment had hitherto and still totended vigorously to carry on the war until they could attain the end in view—a safe, sabstantisl, and honourable peace. Before sitting down, he might perhaps say one word more upon the main subject of the noble earl's statement. It was this, that the returns from the hospitals at Scutari would prove beyond all doubt, as the noble earl expected, that the utilisers of England had not been wanting in duty in the present contest. Earl GRANVILLE suggested that as the noble earl had not given notice of hie motion, it would be better, to avoid irtoaularity, to withdraw it On the present occasion. It could then be reframed in some form likely to give more and CI information upon the suoject. The Earl of ORNKEY withdrew the motion accordingly. The hot se adjourned at five minutes to 6 oclock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUUB3DAT, Mews 8. The Spiritus took the chair at 4 o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. BLACILBOSV took the oaths and his seat for Stir- NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. A. PELLATT—To reintroduce his motion in refer ence to the operation of the Metropolitan Interments Act —Thursday, 22n4. Mr EWART—BiII to extend the provisions of the Public Libraries Act to Inland. —Thursday, 22nd. Lord A. PAGET—An address to the crown, praying for the return of the v►lue of the etnuniesions of etch officers ss might be killed. or who died.of diesel's or wounds while on service, to their wives or childree, and that no income tax might be charged on Fatuities ' to officers or soldiers for wounds datiog the present war and essuriog her Majesty that t►e house would make good ' the amount Thursday, Mr. L. KlNG—Select committee on the subject of the consolidation of the statute law—Same day. Mr. MACKINNON—SeIect committee on the subject of the Claque Ports—Some day. THE NEWSPAPER STAMP. Mr. COWAN.—Seeing the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his pla , e, I a anxious to put a question to him of some importance. The house is aware that very peat ineonvo since is experienced by the printers and publishers of newspapers, owing to the uncertainty which prevails as to the bill now before this house for the repeal of the newspaper stamp duty, and what I want to know from the right hon. gentleman i., when it is intended poeit i rely to proceed with that bill, and to suggest, as it is likely to give rise to cocci derable discussion whenever it is brought on, that it should be taken as the first order of the day. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The very recent period at which I have undertaken the duties of the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer will render it impossi ble for me to proceed with that bill to-morrow, the day for which it now stands upon the paper, inasmuch as I have I not had time to give that attentiun to the very difficult sub- i jeep involved in the bill which it demands. I intend tc 1110TIVW to move the p ostponement of the order waif Friday in next week, when will state the course I propose to take. Mr. M. GIBSON understood that Friday in next week had been given to the right hon. member for Droitwich for bringing torward his eclueati,n bill. lie (Mr. G.) would =fittest Monday, therefore, instead of Friday, for the News paper Stamp Bill. Lord PALMERSTON intimated that the arrangement made with the right hos. member for Droitwieh would stand good. His right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) bad, as he understood him, given hie notice con engent upon the debate upon the bill of the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Pakitigton) being over sufficiently early to enable him to make the statement he contemplated as to the Newspaper Stamp Bill. Mr. M. GIBSON—WouId is not be better to fix some day when this Newspaper Stamp Bill will come up for oartalsity The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The rigid hon. gentlemen has somewhat misuadersteod my meaning. What I said was that, on Friday week next, I would state the day when I proposed to take the discussion on the bill ; but if it will conduce to the convenience of the right hon. gentleman, I will endeavour to fix the day before Friday. MILITIA SERGEANTS. Colonel NORTH begged to inquire, it the government would consider their decision not to allow those sergeants of regiments of militia who are pensioners from the army, and who have volunteered to accompany their regiments upon foreign service, to count that foreign service tawards increase of tansies. Mr. PEEL *aid that those particular sergeants were already enjoying considerable advantage over those of the line, inasmuch as they were allowed to receive their pen sions as well as the pay of the it present position ; and in addition to that, to allow them to count their service even in the Mediterranean, would be to give theme still greater ad. vantage over sergeants of the line. EDUCATION IN SCOTLAND. Mr. DUNLOP begged to ask the lase Led of Me Tnesury, whether It is the intention atimeatmeMill le be. *rodeo an education bill for &oleos! ads =Ong MM. if so, whether It will be brought in before the WM% al which day the Schools (Scotland) Bill of the bes. wirealleee for Perthshire stands for seened reading, and what averse the government intend to pursue in reference to that bill ? The LORD ADVOCATE said, with regard to the first part of the question. it was the intention of the government to introduce a hill for the promotion of education in Scot. lad—(hear, hesr)—but whether it would be introduced before the 28th instant he was unable to say. With regard to the course which the government proposed to take on the subject of the bill of the hon. member for Perthshire, he did not at present see how they could consistently support it. (Hear, bear.) PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND UNIVERSITIES. Mr. HEYWOOD rose to move for a select committee le inquire into the best means of affordieg to the notion a tea sad equal participation in all the advantage% which are Mt isescurily of ea eadesiestical or spiritual @begetter is Me public schools sad universities of England mil behind, sad of improving the educational -ystem in dims plat seats of learning, with a view to enlarge their ewes of Jest's+. ties in cleiseralty with the requisumeats of the public tank& Mr. EWANT esecomled the motion. Lord PALMMEMION mmumed in liteldig BM abolition of all made& distimtlea as far es was pemlllik bat saw as utility in the emelatment of the proposed camedttee. Mr. HEYWOOD, la reply, said that be did net see !al likelihood ef the objects that he sought Wog Meemplfirbed by say memen that had yet been that wee yet anmemal Mbe beam* forward. Usirsaty, the prom shim Mita had bows made by the ae s BIC neat b• Hey word) derail befog la • bill te email Me Mt of al teraity, mil to pievide some services is the milep chapels issued of dm peesat full service of Me Mum* of Eoglaad, was me wti be should be happy te meek to, but that he Mt It lobes seams r. epaseibility for ea Miilvidual amber, eat be @bed& sash mho to have bed the mistoeco es mom aber members ertie eal h a 've amilimed with kW as to ibe best comes is be , eel as te erbetbsr It meld act be praterable le the elms ler a °Maio elm But as the sespetien bed bean amie, be was williag te seism it, sod bang In a bill t end *timid sot iut the @Ma; am. i ll i arhatirrewithdram. WhOlfil 111 THE ROHM? TIL&DE. Ilk IL WORD gamed am lame te lain in a bill to seliela steppes of wept title lowisvy manufaeture. THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EYFYING, MARCH 9, 1855.