The Express. — London, England, 1850-03-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARL lAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—MONDAY, MARCH 11. The house mot st 6 °Week. OF Till LORD lad remised a oats from h a noble sad loaread Mead who asoallyourapi.d Ili wedlock, @tattoo that Wm was too lumen as take Ms seat, sad mantis( that a Weis M..& Raisin M salted to prank& la Ids stood. Ho (tk• llamas ol Lam e/woe) hoped tierefare, that than would b• so Wisdom to No solde friend Lord Portrasa ou p7i.ltthe weedeask. Lord POSTKAN Ikea took Ids sou as tits woolsack. PETITIONS PRESENTED. Acre or rmuI&BIRMT ADIRRYLATION BILL. —By Lord BROUGHAM, iron Saharan**, in favour of this bill. Sift THOMAS TURTON'S DIIALCATIONS. By Lord BROUGHAM, fronting maaarr of Visitant caleotlead at • ng, complelaba jel the denthatioa agile T. Tanen. THU OA= or MIPRIXACT.—By Lord BROUGHAM, Don the HMI of Chacarty and the Earl of Bradford, etsth liaising that they were secluded nom parliament to Nwe► isseLof athelentiess °Notifies which they entertanith to :th if gapressan. They end the Imaging*, uit slantl, ores insessithat with the facts ; they weld sot swear that " Melon prism eg potentate bath or ospht to have thy Infra*. kMs lea" They had no objection to say that me he*. pins ask to ken any jurisdiction in the realm ; but they nand to say that such was not tin nee how de faata. bemuse they said that an act lately paned with sewn to allaeleabio *nth in Ireland revgnisedtth diseip Ike and othetitatith of the church of Rome. He led told his amble hinds that to could only hope to get rid of the eviler whisk thev complained by an act of parliament. The But of MOUNTUASHELL sad that peen who had tender corm aces could an take the oath, and he hoped a annum would be iatrodand this swim to remedy oho evil. Lord REDESDALE had as tender • COUPOietila as aay than, but he did not put the same int.rpretatien on the oath se the petitioner', and therefore he took the oath. After a few words from Lord LONDISHOROVON the subject dropped. POS7•077101 DILITSR7 ON BrIIDAT.—By the Earl of MALMESBURY, frees place not heard, against any Past °Sze de.ivery on Sunday. He found that the petitioners did not understand the subject, for he was convinced that if the government were to accord their request, great lona- TetieneS would be the consequence to persons residing Is the provinces. AGRICVL7IIRAL Dryness/A.—By Lord REDESDALE, from several places , complaining of agricultural dawn. EPISCOPAL FORD.—By the Earl of POWIS, heel steel of the clew, against the consolidation of the episcopal and common fui.d. SUNDA! TRADING Btu, —By ;the Earl of ST. GER, MANS, from tradesman in the metropolis, against the Sunday Trading Bill. RAILWAY AUDIT Earl GRANVILLE moved the order of the dig for the snood readttg of the Railway Audit Bill. As be went folly into detail the other day, and their lordships had had an opportunity since of read. ling the bid, be would not go over the ground twain. The nobl- lord having alluded to what had been doge in the cameo, briefly recapitulated the provisions of the bill, moll °occluded by moving that it be read • second time. Lard STANLEY did not object to the seemed reading of the bill, and indeed he ought almost to apologise to their lordships for addressing them on the subject. He should have taken no put in toe measure, having no practical knowledge of railways, sad never having held • abate in one, had he not that morning received a deputation from some of the principal railway companies, representing a paid-up capital of 119,000,0001., on the subject. If they had come to bin with a proposition to resist an effective audit, be would not have listened to them ; for he was con fident that an effective audit was necessary for the advan :ego of all pinks ; and he had now to state that a large ma. Jolley ot nilwsy repreuntatives ha i come to an agreement with reference to a bill which provided for an effective but not **independent audit. The deputation which be bad seen that morning stated several objections to the bill of the government; and he was sure that his noble friend opposite would admir, that if he could effect the object be had in view, with the eoneurrenes of a large portion of railway shareholders, it would be desirable to do so. (Hear, hear.) To the present bell the railway shareholders tier. ughout tht country bad great objections. He had in his band the printed draft of • bill, which he would lay on the table, and which would be reedy for presentation to-morrow. The deputation which had waited on biro was not • delegation from directors, but shareholders in tallow ; and they ob jected to the bill in principle and detail. They objected to the principle of centralisation—that any threo persons, be they who they might , should have In them selves such a deems of authority and control over soh vast Interests. It was toe the g *unmeant bad taken ears that the auditote "hold be elected by delegates to be chosen by the shareholders; but it appeared that when the auditors were appointed the government had the power of continuing them in office, notwithstanding the objection of the delegate'. The government had also the power of fixing the salaries of the auditors, and of all the different persons to be appointed under them, forming • larger and more extensive staff than perhaps the noble lord tailwind. The rum to be raised at first was to be obtained from the different companies. The auditors had to suggest, and the government to sanction, the principle upon which that sum was to be levied upon the different railway companies. If a complication of scoonta were taken, their lordships eight deal with great injustice. If they took the question of dividends, they ought impose a very serious burden on railway companies. He only amid dine as difficulies in priseiple, wraith, so far es he wad make oat, were not raw stowned by the present bill. Now, the object of the audit woe to protect shareholders is the first instance, by giving thus due knowledge of the state of their affair,, and pro veatiag, as it was called, the "cooking' cf the mu counts. floe amounts were dosed en the 31st of December, and the meetings of the several companies took place &boat the 15th of February. Between the 31st of December and the 15th of February, therefore, the auditors must go through the accounts, and certify and satiety the share holders; but how it wog possible for any three gentlemen— and this was • point ea which they could not trust to their clerks—in such a short span of time, to go through the &c -counts of 183 railways, surpassed his comprehenaioo, and would, he believed, surpass the power of the gentlemen themselves. (Hear, bear.) What was to be done, in such • ease. with to the half-yearly dividends? It was clearly im for the accounts of all the companies to be audited between the 31st of December and the 15th of February ; in fact, it would require half • year for the throe 'elitism*a to go through the details of 183o a o mm en 4 pasues. Now, the railway companies were not o p to substantial, to bon d jf&P audit, but they believ that the present measure had been post poned to a period when its sling would be much less than it would have boa U poised three or four years ago. The great abuse of railway accounts had consisted of un duly mixing up the capital sad revenue acimants. The ca pital accounts would in ashore time disappear, and with its disappearance one of the fruitful sources of cooking" the accounts would be removed. This measure, then, would be found more useful than it would be under existing circum stances, had it been brought in at the time of the high fever in the railway world. (Hear, hear.) He begged to state the principal merinos of the bill the railway companies were willing to have introduced. In the first place, it pro vided that the shareholders should annually appoint a com mittee of audit, that that committee should be composed of portal.' who were not directors or office-holders, or in any degree under the control or influence of the directors; and that no director, either by himself or by proxy, should have a vote with regard to the appointment of the auditors. They would thus secure an audit committee independent of the directors. It was then proposed that the audit committee an appointed should recommend two or more auditory, and should certify the names of the persons they recommended. They then provided that the accounts should be kept in a I regular form, to be ort-t.lied in the schedule attainia to we act, that the auditors should have full powers to examine all books and documents, that they should certify to the directors if they found aaything objecti ona ble, and that, if the directors should take no no of the objectionable matter, the auditors should then report to the shareholders the abuses ttiey . dilicovered. They further proposed, as an weeatial'.oaditon, that the auditors should employ a public act 3 u"..cant, that public 'constant being wholly unto sylioad with the company, to go through the accounts—that a half-yearly report of the auditors should be sent to every shareholder seven days before the meeting, and that a mi nority of not less than 20 proprietors, holding not lees than one-twentieth part of the company's capital, should have the power of ordering another at their own expense, unless • subuquent meeting should desire that the cost of that ad ditional audit should be borne by the company. There were tedious other propositions in the bill, which were not ten=ected with the audit, but which were, nevertheless, of importance. They prepaid, fur example, that of the re tiring directors only one should be re-eligible at the teriod of their vacating their office. This, indeed, was the pries. leapt* at present in operation with reference to the direc tors of the Bait of England. Subeequent provisions prat'. Lied the directors from holding end using pro:J. 1, except on special occasions, at general meetings, and for particular and defined purpose. The bill also proposed that a register cf shareholders should be made up ineuthly that a list of all retiring of fi cers be should published periodically ; and it was intended to be proposed that upon the demand of any of the shareholders the Dolmas to be tray reeled at the half yearly meetings should be specified In the notice counties such. meetings. Lod MONTSAGLE said he rejoiced sincerely that his noble (nem* (Earl Granville) had, on the part of the govern ment, undertaken to bring In the pr.sent bill. The speech jot delivered by the noble lord °pont' (Lord Stanley) proved beyond all question the necessity welch existed for the passing of some mob measure. It was admitted by the iallway proprietors themselves, and also by those who took • somewhat different, but not en adverse, view of their Latinists, that the state of railway accounts and finances ought not to be left in their present condition. The noble lord (Lord Stanley) bad expressed his tear that this bi 1 came too late, end he assigned as a reason for entertaining that apprehension that there was • 'Kaput of the capital account of the railway companies being closed, and the other accounts than resolving themselves into income and expenditure. He (Lord Monteagle) would admit that the nee salty of auditing the aosotats world be very much di ngo -shed when the capital wont was closed, bat he bad very grave doubts whether the closing of the capital account was hkeiv to take place so speedily tit bad b.en represented. He tared That the proposition of the noble lord would not secure as accai*,tie test of fidelity in the accounts, because they could not deed with the evanescent and transitory shareholders is a ri u 7may, and rely upon them to impose the shock, in the same manner as they could deal with the Owner. of other o wer i p ti osi o r property which were lot to rapidly and repeatedly eisaglag fuods. It might be that • speekel Inneeter, empowered to make a mold allied waft to the shareholders. n aili ss a ler ai biesd (Lord Stemlop), is lir bill, to treader to ale sew asdliese the perm M a tt recent enters es ne obli manes Est what was the peas seat system of audit t TM ma" ea the law saw Mod, were empowered to imam into the Male, the tomernt, expenditure, end the basses-sheet ; but the anew a• whin the dividend was made lip sad deelared was elesgether exaladed from their inquiry. (iieer. bear.) Now the bill nemen by the railway areatere, to which hie settle Mimi (Len !Maley) had referred, provided tor that asemely, beeught the whole a the mounts, iecluding the ededatises ea whin the dividend wee based, under the seliblisee aMe auditors. So far that bill was infinitely =kW *id a ties goverment (Hear, hoer.) The mt year mesided aim that the whole of the legal sad pertiemeneep expenses ef every railway company should be tined M thepeoper sielbeaties, end that until each tinier sot more OM IS per iNOL d aloe charges should he paid. He had Inked is eels he any mini's, provision in the pretest ba t MI be regretted this the more whoa be reeillaili libbl *Met tea Minim bed bees ex pended es thesellesse, tbat this brooch of railway es penalises bad bees mils the mesas in sae ems of maim math abase. Now. he would sawn that sewn ban ale two bills Wore them together, and that belb iambi be relined to a committee up stairs, ems posed a more ins woad give their attention to the sub ject, sad mambo both fairly, with the view to frame out of thin ear win msesere. (Hear, hear.) By each a ewes be beihrend • meek better bill would be seat down to the Oseemsms the. by sap eau mesas, and me man likely to seemed there. Meer, beer.) Lord STANLEY, after Medea that he proposed to lay some details on the subjs.& es the table to-morrow, 'un mated that one provision N the bill would be that any director who had not paid up his sans amid be, ipso fade, disqualified, and ems to be a director, without any resolu tion of the company, and that If a director iniminducted himself be any way, he might be enured by a resolution pima at a meeting of shareholders. Lied COLCHESTER hoped that the auditors would be empowered to inquire and report as to how far the capital any company wee empowered by parliament to raise was appropriated no accordance with those powers Earl GRANVILLE made some observations in explana tion, but from the low tone in which he spoke he was nearly inaudible in the gallery. He concurred with the noble lord who had just spoken, that it was only fair to the public that the coadidoes under which then railway empti ness obtained their powers should be kept. With regard to the negation of his noble Mead (Lord hionteagle), ne pro mos' to take the second reading of his bill that evening, upon the mderstandiag that he would not press it through the remaining stages ascii time bad ern given to consider the other (lord Stanley's) bi I. The advantage which his (Earl Grenville's) plan had over that of the noble lord, as it appeared to him, wee, that it secured to the audit the weight and authority of accumulative experience. Lord STANLEY feared the process under the noble earl's bill would be dilatory. Earl GRANVILLE believed there would be no difficulty in auditing the accounts by the central and continuous board as rapidly as they were audited by the present auditors. -------- Lord BEAUMONT °Merced that the noble earl bad net yet explained what coarse be meant to take with regard to the two bile—whether he intended to adopt the suggestion of the noble lord (Mew. eagle), and delay his measure until they should have an opportunity of coosidering that of the noble lord opposite. end to refer both to a select committ. e. On that andentanding he should not o`ject to the bill being read a second time now. (Hear, hear.) Lad GRANVILLE would not harry the bill through until full time had been given to their lordship' to confider the other measure. With regard to the proposal for Waving both to a select coransi.tee, he admitted the advantages of that mode of dealing with the details of the messare, but should like to have • day or two to consider the matter. Remembering the time occupied by the select :muslin,e of last yeti', on the same subject, he feared that to follow the saws comes in the present instance would occasion too much delay. The bill was then reed a second time. CONVICT PRISONS BILL. Earl GREY deferred the mend reading of this bill WI Thursday nest. RAILWAY ABANDONMENT BILL. The house having resolved itse:f into committee on this bill, Lord RBDESDALE suggested that power should be given to obtain powers of ahandonment without any rewric floe, and that the same notices of abandonine a railway should be gives as were required for making a railway. Lord BEAUMONT intimated that it was his intention to introduce certain words into the thirteenth clause on the third reeding. The bill then went through committee, and was ordered to be reported. Tke Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table, by command, certain papers connected with the poor law unions in Ireland. Their lordships adjourned at a quarter put 7 o'clock. SOUSE OF COMMONS.-MONDAT, MARCH 11. The Setafiza took the c'aeir at five minutes to four o'clock. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. TAXIS ON KNOWLIDOI —By Sir T. BIRCH, from Liverpool; Mr. MOWATT, from Logic and Rhetoric Clan Mooting' at the British Coffee-house, ilidowerc-road ; Mr. M. GIBSON (2), from Birmingham, and from letter press printers of the of Freedom newspaper office, for the repeal of the advertisement, newspaper stamp, and paper &Vies. 'Tan torte on Taa.—By Mr. COBDEN (3), from Glos. sop, Newton Mom, sad Manley, praying for a reduction of the duty on tea. Posvorrics.—By Mr. L. HODGES, from Idea; Mr. B. DENISON, from two plasm in Iforkshi-e ; Admiral GOR DON (several), from Aberdeenshire; Mr. CAYLEY, fr• m a plate in the Ncrtli Birawof Yorkshire; Mr. SOTHERON, from Wiltshire; b Lad GROSVENOR, from the con gregation of St. Mary's, Middlesex ; easiest the delivery of letters or other labour on Sundays in the Post-cigar. Aoructrtvraat. Durranse.—By Mr. CAYLEY, from a place in the North Riding of Yoriishir.-; Mr. MOODY, from Somersetshire, complaining of agricul•nrel distress. Cars or GOOD Hors.—By Mr. ADDERLBY, from the Cepa of Good Hops, against that colony being made a penal settlement. THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EV EN ING, MARCH 12, 1850. year followlag he would »due the smother to 90,000, whist' should he regarded es • fair sad remittal Mambo. (Hear.) Is esimmose to what had bees aid& by his right hon. friend el the art= 1111PINOM1110 whist' prevailed amongst the oil. ems, ho (11r. Hems) would wish to see that system done away with altogether. Ile was in favour of the eystem that promoted mss from the ranks instead of making a meresatne principle. (Hear, hoer.) It been mateaded that bonus Frame and Prusela bept large armies, so also ought England. Os a themes ocosaion the sem? &gramme was used to show that 1-, SUPPLY.-THE ARMY ESTIMATES. kg NM littis antra Is farther build- Ilia boom ekes weal tato conuaittege of supply is ells g .. t ia „,...th..... ms. " llll hr No vonnonni le the y Elb.ndla inessul a 7 , B°ll.4 l army Winteten Mr. DEMO. is the =kb wbisk deem was on berm= of Mena a ana Cor p, Mr. F. MAULS add be bad to elk the commutes to agree lam yea= TM ',seen of Mk Imam min SW t was de " • °°°•"" That the " label li lad (Inset fr ,_ o fh e _r_ at temained set to cell inet Me kW kg miemegilebt duty, sad *WM, thee Illst of Mark. 186 4 be 90 . 128 leeettnene•"g therefore daring the whelk of rat hisser lir& sea an om sereenusiesteeed °Metes, and rack and nor, for Om n 0 ,0 0 ,01 0, a nonin , d ,„. kr lbw aseesama easiak wee seek' ef Groat Britain and tesd, bat mohnive of the :r.:,77. 1ra z-,1 ._ ~..._z ut. ....., toggle employed la ebe lest Jakob" as world now r i ' s =7 1 ;;, . 7,...- .... - -i-z d - _ ....._ Mom the ateestion Of the meassittes both to tfur *item _r,Or n az ,_ o n'Or" ]resent ____ __, ~OMMT_ and sles aapeadienne of tim army. The amber of men to ra -- eum "*" w ir was a '''_ aramm ; y 7 10 7" a r ii ir m i ..,. be Weld eelle .o ___ __WWII bO e t e len,"" °• •_,, ___ o _ ll 71 • 1 ___ll w r ee 1 ,1 3 . 284 ' - duty was added to the estimates feat this year. be &boob decieledly protest, as It weSalm to show that they ebetßini___ le enee samoni ="`" `" '''""'" 7 . '" "'"°•"' Tlits was due whole of what ,sue hated the offeetim service had little dependence in themselves. It would be all vary towdbmina nnne at els twan sa llt i ai at mem eunho ll i a " i lmall o i ise i h ro e t of the army sad, as compared with the estimates of last well if his right hon. friend told them that they were again n o . year, there was a decrease, ,of 8 6 ,6701. by take the field, so at Waterloo, and fight the battle of It. re, hams allikee at/ WA. a fa° ""'". year, sow Mims to the lower m eet e g l iordo ege e. th lke first vote European liberty. But ha was satisfied the lemon they aint metrise. Dimness *see namiteek . seiff furiben under this head was for rewards far sallitary Berries. Lest had received, and the penalty they had incurred by the ft ~____o e feddi be sees that tee teePe,eeeteeet only B ' ° " . year this vote was 16,120 L This year there was a mull addition of 600 millions to their debt, would put it out of .r asssofss a..... SS ,"•• maaaallrailaar these we : i7n'y sieved inners of The soot item wee for the pay of general the power of any minister or any Home of Commons to .... iTedleisir of the ' world. Ded " f O ons ofkers. Lest year It amounted to 78,9081. - Tbis year ft adopt in future each . a policy. (Hear, hear.) Ho had been au tar bias meta, um mazy, ow household was 1 321, Of beinL a a wee demesse ry of 20,000 L But anxious to ascertain In what respect tha Increase of paelesil duo to General men had taken place, and he found that in 1835 their iiilblil• re ehfeld o __ if ~__"1 " "i ' ___o _ 8 111 9-1! : 121 :_% ° ° ° * 1 7, 11 `"V e e e r i e Monty, who bas sot drawn his allowance for =vary numbered over 10,000, whilst at present they allentfellY_,„ a lama. "I eir,____• ""e".._ eo l g o "nriy,_"'" o .`: several yeses the real decrease VMS about 7,000 L Daring were 12,366. In 1836 the Fait Clouds numbered 4,789 ••••••• a t •i ' m 's "' """' ''''' I.''''''" serves, "*" the year, 21 general officers were removed from the list, they were at present 5,260. The infantry were 79,722 in abases le this Paled lb w t he 11.11141 ". " Lit admit end 4 bad been added, making a difference of 17 persons. 1836' at present they numbered 102,322. The colonial corps 11111111 " ma n ° "I I a° was MI 1.111111.1 " . Th. °thee This vote, as compa red with 1836 showed a decreem of no numbered in 183,1 , 5,690 ;at present they reached 9,988. niglat the hem. member ter the WINS Lift d said that lees th in 56,0001. on eke . retiring fall pay them was a The total number of troop, at home in 1835 was 44,330, and a" only the number . het die drneali sa te than was decrees of 1,6001 . this yes, sad as competed with 1836 at present 69,308. In India in 1836 the troop, numbered required. and had proposed a red an kemtimates of there was a decrease of 23,6001. He now came to the half- 19,720, whilst at present they reached 30,487. (Hear, hear.) 6,b23 0001, Il• woe " Meltels a " a11°14111116°41111111 2 pay list, which was the moat formidable item at all times Now, what he had to do with these figure, was to show that or 1,911,0001., was to be allesini an re, am It a - I ••• in eke noa-effestive eervice, but this yew it showed a the numbers, tensed of having increased, should have de ka presumed the wa r e e st o G ramm midi net in . fair and proportionate decrease. In 1849 . 60, the half-pay tressed. They were now at peace, and as contented as in titht ° ,_ witit ~,„,.t he , been ",____,,, oaa h°ll.lll of e ___ ll° ., 1112 n ,°' list amounted to 400,0001.; this year It was 386,0001., show- 1835 and 1836, yet their numbers were greater. (Hear, a °maw w... ' ''. "'"" '''"'"ls'"''' '''' time ... tog a decrease ot 14,000, and, =me 1696, • decrees of hear.) Independent of them, they had 10,000 en ds*, sad whisk seats only be reduced tr 199,5001. There were 234 officers removed from the list rolled pensioners, 10,000 enrolled dockyard men, and elefaim° 2 l 1111 . 1 M I MS' 12 " "and" that °e ' en • during the year, and 87 placed ea. Ho might observe hare some 10,000 polio" in Ireland, altogether a body /l e is/p un t propsood ee tedwettetewas proposed, at • Lit ob tl as ou ge 0f .t 3 h , a 9 1. 36, w 18 0 21 e1 l that the greates t vigilante was used la suing that no person of 30,000 men over and above the army ; and there remain only 1,995,5821. for the whole elective service. was placed upon the haltopey listwbo was not fully entitled fore he contended he had made out a case for retrogression, to i t eithweeeed ien Lis will, by efe lengthof oeeelre, et from ill health, or from and that they should as soon as possible return to the former alluded-the charge per mac was 421 , and poste Minims. beie In 1835-the year to which his hon. friend bad so pointedly (Hear.) The next vote was more economic system. In point of argument, he admitted Taking the cost now at 403., and dividing 1,996.6821. by for the eed foreign half-pay, and it was one upon which, loader be might be in error; bat he contended his figures were this sum, it would not give more than • fore, of 60,000 for present circumstances, then must always be a decrease. The right and Indisputable. The hon. member concluded by 1 estimate for 1849.60 was 44,1561. ; this year It was 42,2001., moving as an amendment to substitute 89,000 for 99,000 as service, to say nothing of the dignity and honour of the the service and relief of the oolouies, and for the tome showing a dermas. of nearly 2,0001. and, se compared with the maximum number of men. country. That was • number as far below the standard of 1835 a datums of 35,0001. On t h e estimate for widows' The question having been put, t . le . pensions thero was a decrees, of 2,2421. During th e year 66 Mejor BLACKALL said he could enure the hon. gentle. 1836, when we bad 81,000 men, that some other calcu don must be resorted to before making so large a deduction widows had been stuck off the list. The decrease tonthis man that it was not because of his having been connected that, rife duos 1835 was 22,6931. The estimate for the comp's- with the service that lee should oppose the amenoment. since f"" 1836 , th e effective b ass healloO.llltiLhe repe a tedlle°ietlf w . o le , o f fr o ,,O =mate allowance last year was 96,6001 • this year it wee Having listened attentively to his address he was of o, th e n ~."' . . " .. .....A ...- .7.......7 91,0001., beino a dee:ease of 4,6001'. ; and, as cob opinion that he had not made out tie case. Was there any the „LinOnfl" o f ".• ,OTE 8 ,... " °"1. ..,. r"'' took '''''''' . .a.,.. pared with 1836, of 68,000. The ultimate for la-pensioners, one of the colonies in which the number of reliefs could be In ""e• a "IT '"' "°"°°"" inn" including Chelsea and Hilmeinhase, showed a difference reduced ? He (Major Blacked!) had taken the trouble of iu Cued*, and troops being required there, the army was increased to 89,000 men. A further berme was made in of 2151. In favour of eke present year. The decrease was on ascertaining what number of troops was quartered in the the cheep for hospital expenses ; but as ben was an andel- different colonies. He found that in the whole of the 1840 to 93,000. not only with the 'onetime of the house. wed dram for unclaimed prise money, a sum of 2,0001. ware American colonies there were but 11 regiments of the line bat upon the urgent orpromatations =many members of the 'weeks in the celestes, as to the greater mororay which added to be estimate on that acomint. The estimate for the ate each regiment hada depot of about 200 men at home, the out pensioners last year was 1,224,0521. • thh year it was effective force was only 6,500 men ; and, looking at the ex relieved. In 1842 troops were required for the service in would result from having the corm there more tequently 1,233,7111., being an increase of 9651. Till inmate did not tent of country to be garrisoned, he thought it child hardly India and China In 1848 the government of the day arias from an increased number being borne on the list. be said that that force was too large. In the West Indies . thought it necessary to come down with a supplementary On the contrary, there was a decrease In that there were seven »pimento, or 2,600 men, mattered over estimate, whir= was most cordially approved, and the force respect. But for several yam' past it had been the various islands. At the Ceps of Good Hope there were the custom to calculate the diminution saved by casual- five regiments, or 2,500 men. Considering the nature and Sher to 113,000., the higheet camber that was reached. At was augmented to 108.000 men. In 14449.9 it rcse still fur the in the round sum of 29,0001. The consequence was that extent of the frontier to be guarded, and remembering ~,, for several years there was an excels of expenditure on this what had occurred within the last few y eah , he sho u ts that time avers! regimen" "tan" from I°44' afar , *"- war. and it was gallant actions in Atighen, under the supposition that India there five regiments vote owing to this calculation having exceeded the real like to know whether any member would propose to make a was to wno mor to have been reduced. Bet they were amount. They had this year diminished that calculation, reduction. ought immediate , sod and had taken credit for only 20,0001., instead of 29,0001 Sir W. MOLES WORTH said-The hon. gentleman has y required again the very next year; and, had the sedate It was true that this caused an increase this year, declared that my hon. friend (Me. Hume) has not made our tion taken place it would have cost nearly double instead of a decree's in the estimate, but it was a CAM for the reduction which he proposes ; and the right the better that this should he the case then to show hon. gentleman, the Secretary of War, stated that the wisest to . set them on or moot economical foot again. It was not cal course, the moment 1,000 or 2,0 ;0 in the balance sheet hereafter en over expenditure. The expense of the army and the militia at the present moment men returned from abroad, to rush into reductions without last vote wee for the superannuation list. The estimate of is very nearly the same as it was in 1835. ,Now there looking forward a year or two. But in 1848 the strength lest /year was 38,000 L, this year it was 40.0001. This were two kinds of military] expenditure-namely, effective of tho army came to a turning pint: in 1849 60 it was constituted the whole of the army estimates. Under and floc-cif/vivo. The effective military expenditure is for redacted to 103,000; and, still retracing their steps they the head of the non-effective service there was a services ectually performing; the noneffective for services , now proposed • redaction to 99,128. Though this was an se ' of 33,2411., end upon the whole estimates performed. The former Is under the immediate and direst as compared with 1849 50 there was a diminution in control of parliament, and is in proportion to the force main- 1 intneete of 17,857 on the force of 1835 ' Jet there w''n'''o increased demands for it; the increase in our colonies and in favour of the moment year of 122,8141. (Hear.) But before seined, and increases or decreases with the number of men localities requiring protection since 1835 fully justified the he left this subject, tear shoal like to show the difference voted. The non-effective expenditure depends upon the I vote now prop sed The hon. member for the Weet Riding which existed in the moblishmenta for the effective service number of men which bus been employed in previous o. said that as the colonies were now to have self- govenment, as c o mpared with 181849, in mower to the charge which had years, and therefore is removed from the direct and imme- , it was but fair they should maintain the forces sent them as been preferred against them, that, having ones arrived at diets contr:l of parliament. To judge, therefore, of the • military police, or rather as • military protection. Th at large armaments, they were not dimmed to go back. The human or retrenchment which has been made in the army was not a whey entirely unknown to the present govern effective service for the year 1848.49 consisted of 113,847 expenditure, the effective expenditure should be alone meet. Lord Grey had already called on the lac. . men, at a cost of 4,3.56 7601 ; that for 1860 61 consisted of considered , (Hear, hear.) In IS3-5 the number of meal 1 --• governments of C n - 69,126 men, at a charge of 3,936 , 9821, being a de- voted was 81,000, and the estimate for effective see- ad selves the charge of the barrack establishments, and to -" and Australia fee take ein the " cream in the number of men of 14,719, and vices was 3,334,0001. ;in 1848 the number of men nude tab and find lidgings for the troop sent these. in the cost of 420,1681.-.(bear, bear)-but, if he included the was 114,000, and the estimate 4,356.0001. This That was one step in the direction his hon. triend proposed, noneffective service the decrease was 601,4381. But he year the number of men is propose d to be would compare the army estimates for the present year 89,000, and the estimate for them 3,936,00010.- a And as the colonies increased la wealth and importance, it with those of 183.5, and he would show his bon. friend (hb. &stream therefore at compared to 1848, of 15,000 men and they still required es of troops from this country to pro- Cobden) that they were much near, r th e level of 1835 than 420,000 L-an increase as compared to 1835 of 18,000 men reef their interests, they might act contribute something, as . ne had any idea of. 'lb. srmy and militia charges for 1835 and 592,0001. Now, ought the force of the army to be re protectie.nCeylon and the lonian Islands did at prevent , towards Vie were 6,126.643/. ; for 18501 they were 6,123,2471. due id to the standard of 1..35 ? That force should be afforded by the mother country. At present making a diff enact, of only 2,6041. (Hear, hear.) divined into two parts, each requiring separate considers scarcely any of our colonies were in • pi:piny° to be fairly But though they had so nearly approac hed the lion. One part is employed in the foreign pooe.sions of thrown on their own rowans for the maintenance of • military force. The hon. member had said the organisation estimates for 183.5 he did not mean to say that they were to t h e crown, t h e ot h er part at h ome. Wi th regar d to the force atop there, if, consistently with the duties they owed to the at home, I shall my !ethic, at present. lam not, for many el the British my was the most extravagant of an army crown, the army, and the country. they could bring the testi- reasons, inclinoi to strip the centre of the empire of mili in Europe, end that it was kept up especially for the are mates below those of that year. (Hear, hear ) Having now tary force ; and if we maintain a considerable force in the toeracy. His (Mr. Mauls's) experience led him to a very oifferent conclusion-that the officers of the British army stated the case with repard to the number of the army, and co l on i es , we oug h t t o h ave a cons id era bl e f orce at h ome one the worst the estimates for its maintenance, he wished to make a t o re li eve th e t roo p s i n th e colonies. (Hear, hear.) The servants that id, and the hardest working class of p übl He ic few remarks with regard to the steps which had question theref . ra to which I shall confine myself is, he knew anywhere. (Hear, hear.) been taken of late s ears to promote the discipline, the w h e th er th ere can and ought to be made a considerable re to brieg it to the understanding of mercantile men. would treat the matter in a mereeuttle point of view, so as comforts, and the good character of the army. And duction in our military force in the colonies. I would call (Hun hear.) A lieutenarencolonel, to arrive at that rank „ nest with regard to the military prisons, which added con- the attention of the committee to a return printed lest year b urchase, paid 4.5404 for his commission his pay, siderably to the army Intimates line! 1835, he was happy to of the expenditure of Great Britain, on account of the coke be able to inform the house that the expenses of those corn- vies , for the year 1846-7. This return gives the expenditure including the pay for conamandiroe hie regiment, to draw which he must be with the regiment every day in the mated to prison had been more than covered by the sums f or th a t y ear at 3,500,0001. But that sum did no; include was 3651. Deducting from this five per cent on the prie year, s of deducted from their pay. But that was a matter of minor an y i n di rec t ex p en dit ure , nor th e ex p en dit ure on . ° his commission, 2271. ; 201. for those regimental subscriptions consideration c metered with the improvement which had accoun t o f th e fleets maintained on the colonial e taken place in the conduct and character of the army as evinced etstions, which last expenditure, I reckon, at not which be had no alternative but to pay, and 111. for boom by a comparison of the number of persons committed te prison. less than 1,000,0001. a year. Therefore, in my opinion, tax-there remained 1071. to the lieutenant-colonel of a regiment for the ditties he performed. (Hear, hear.) Taking The number of young men commi•ted to military prisons the direct military, naval, and civil expenditure of Great a major, and making similar deductions, his pay was bad been gradually decreasing during the last three years. Britain. on account of the colonies, did not amount, in the In 1847, the number of persons on ler twenty years of age years 1846-7, to much lees than 4 500,0001. I wilt confine cant, 851. ; and an cosign 731. per annum. These were the 931. 1,,. • • captain received 'ether more, 1031. ; a lieutio who were consmi ted amounted to 1,126 ; in 1848, to 981 ; m y observations to the military expenditure. According to men whose organisation was stated to be moat extravagant, in 1849, to 589. (Hear.) The number of men of two year.' th is return the direct military expenditure of Great Britain service committed in 1847 was 1,656 : in 1848, 1,590 ; in on account of the colonies (including ordnance and commis the army must be kept up for men of some description e and for whom the army was said to be kept up. No doubt t 1849, 1,000. He felt quite SUN that under the present system unit expenditure) amounted to 3,000,0001. in 18467: all ,till ducation in the army the number of committals would this expenditure was on account of the effective military other who had other means of support beyond what they further de creme. With regard to the health of the army. force; and as in 1846.7 the whole expenditure of the empire received from the AMT. (Hear.) Any one casting his eye slightly over the army list would arrive at the impressionimpression• great deal bad been done of late year. to promote it. He had on account of effective military force ameunted to 6,600,0001., the return" of mortality with respect to the army serving it follows that s.llths of our effective military expenditure that, so far from the army being kept up for the aristocracy, abroad. With regard to th e mortality of the army at home is on account of the colonies ; and as in the long run the they held a very "melt proportion of the commission.. (Hear.) But the bon. gentleman complained that when reductions he had not any returns, but he was happy to say that with expenditure on account of non effective must be it propor respect to the late visitation of the cholera, it had not fallen tion to, the effective force which had been previously em =Seers as well as the men. In all the increases under MO. " Inn made, sufficient attention was not paid to reduce the _ severely on the army as it had on civilians. pl o y s d, I am entitled to assert that 5 llths of our who!' Bat the returns of 1849 with respect to the army abroad military expenditure is on account of the colonies. Now, in esesive governme rats since 1835 particular care had been 'hewed a ~seas improvement, (Hear, hear.) Now, with the years 184 G-7 the whole military expenditure, including Oaken to increase t h e, officers, in a very small proportion in- 'n° system of um ion regard to are dosed as compared with the men ; the increase since 1835 had bees only as 1 officer to 152 men. The reduction of officers been his lot to carry out the plan which had been previously which 4,000,000/. was required in consequence of was quite another thing. Men might generally be reduced laid down with great care and skill by hie predecessor in th e f orce we we r e maintaining, or bad maintained, ithout any great burden being thrown on the country ; office. The last quarterly returns showed three in 18 out of i n th e colonies. Therefore the question of the but by reducing officers they were made permanent annui -21 schools that smarm was flourishing , and that amongst amount of military force to be kept in the colonies teats on the public, and the efficiency of the service was those who attended them there were 2,289 non-commissioned le a question with regard to 4,000,0001. of annual expendi greatly imp Med, because in en army like once, where eea- officers. (Hear, hear.) When that system was properly tare, consisting directly of 3,000,0001. expenditure for effec may was studied, and where the number fluctuated from matured, he believed that • better educated body of men fi ve ser v ice, and indirectly of 1,000,0001. expenditure for could not be found anywhere than those who compete:id her non-effective services. It is evident, however, that it is only year to year, r sing and falling according to the necessities of the service, the object always was to keep up • regiment Maj esty ' s army. (Hear, hem.e . He was happy to be able in the effective expenditure that any immediate reduction with such an eetabishmeat of officers as should enable them to say that the Commander-in-Cbief was determined in aP- can b e ma d e . The qu estion ther e f ore i s , d o we wan t on the shortest possible notice to add a large number of plying the same system to the higher class of the army, 41,000 troops in the colonies ? If we do, we must pay for men, aid thus make the regiments more efficienO To meet If for not could more strongly tend to diminish that re- them, and we ought to keep an ample force at home to emergencies it was nee/seamy that officers should be well . n . es as . meet wi it w become, that the soldier should entertain relieve them. We may make some economies here and trained and well disciplined ; it was on this principle alone t owards his superior officer than the circumstance that the there, save a few thousands ; but I am inclined to thick that the system of our cavalry regiments could be main moldier should know himself to be ruperior in point of that the army has been well managed, economically speak loosed; and ha though; the, principle fairly justified the knowledge to his o ffi cer. (Hear, hear.) The sum - m- ing ; and I feel persuaded that we cannot reduce the cost of course pursued. With regard to the distribution of the force, mander-in-chief therefore, would insist that every officer these troops under 4,000,0001. a year for effective and non there we re but 35,000 at home, to relieve 30,000 should in the colonies, and 30,000 in India. The right the army, and in due and not very distant time he force in the colonies can be reduced it is necessary to con hon. .. member for Manct ester had remarked that nape" toot regulation would be more widely applied, eider how it is distributed I have only its distribution in the expense of the Indian service was grater a and that no person would be promoted to the rank 1848 9. which I will take in connexion with the expenditure than appeared on the estimates, for though the East India of • captain examination , the,(Her, Thel vote in India, it threw back a considerable burden on the pension Mr. HUME said he was happy to find that so much Our troops are distributed through the different classes of lists. It was quite Mu these burdens were had been done to and half- prom ote the discipline, the health, colonies, namely military stations, plantations or subjugated pay augmented from the number of men serving in India ; but and eduction of the army. (Hear, hear.) It was • territories, and colonies, properly so-called. With regard to him, who had so long contended for the military stations if the people of England pride themselves what was the per contra? That the East India Company great satisfaction to ie m, that a different system had on such fortresses as Malta and Gibraltar, if they thous to pail to the Treasury 60,0001. a year, over and above the sum abolition of flogging the y well, and , to be attended with such have the lonian Islands, and will dhplay their wisdom by paid for the treops, expronly to meet that emergency. been found to work so had heard from the present distinguished laying claim to Sapient : !; if they have a mind for St. (Hear, hem.) As to the proportion of o ffi cers to men, he good multi.. He that number of lashes given at one Helena, Hong Hong, Labuan, end the Falkland blends- Amoebae in 1836 . 36 it was Itol7 ; in the present year it commander-unchief the limited to 50, and it was a great (hoer, hear)-if they will dot the world over with their wee Ito 20. That was said to be more than was requisite : but time should now have h heard him sty that even that troops, why they must pay for so doing ; they must not turning to the army of a country which seemed to be in high satisfaction . to reduced. favour with the hon. member for the West Riding-that of number might in time be ( Hem, hese.) grudge half a million a year for effective military ex pendi lways also glad that better barrack accommodation had lure in these places; for the follies of mankind are • the United States-and where he would not say the army He emu 'ded - for their soldiers. He neve r mid that the pay the most expensive of their amusements. But Ido gru dge was kept up for the aristocracy - In an army of 17,0e0 men been prove &seri was too high. The only difference the expense of 2,500 troop in the lonian Islands. Our there were no lees than 775 o cers, being aproportion of Ito of the men or o between him and his right hon. friend was as military expenditure on account of these islands has 21. (Hear.) He had now shown that, in po ise of numb*" at that existed that arm in 1828 the actual amount amounted on an ge to about 130,0001. a year, or about home to relieve thou abroad, there were strong grounds for to the numbers o f as _ _, _ 55 50 y 0,0001. But in consequence of • 4,500,000/, since the peace. Of that sum we have expended maintaining the force at what he had propoesd. The right of revenue raised w hon. baronet the me tabu tot Tamworth had, in 1848, shown great outcry being raised against the taxation at that time, 456,0001. on military works. We commenced fortifications pointed, and reductions to the extent of at Corfu, which were estimated to cost 152,0001. ; they have the absolute necessity of so arranging the force at home as • committee was ap not to allow Ouse &Orme* to sufftr for want of relief. A 6,000,0001, were effected before 1835. In that year the cost already 356,0001. ; they cannot be completed at less than 50,000,0001. ; but he was sorry to say that 90 , 0001 . more ; and when completed at a coat of 450,000/., routine of ten years was now fixed for the colonial service ; revenue was and if the house wished to maintain that term,tha t time they had increased the expenditure , except they will be se extensive that, in the event of a war, it they met eteee g t he, lastw to y be . Ho maintained, however, that would not expedient to keep a sufficient garrison to man force they now thought necutuy to ask. In addition to Were was n Siva the government the means of doing so, by voting the during onecessity for the increase during the inter. them; therefore, in sub an event, the wisest plan would be They had not yet heard the financial state- to withdraw out troops, and blow up the fortifications, and that, some consideration should be given to the times in vening years ofthe . • ht - hen, gentleman the Chancellor of the we could always reconquer them if there were no fortifica- which we lived, to the position which this country held merit but he thought he might take the doss for less than the interest of the capital we have ex- amidst the nations of the world, and to the necessity of our Exchequer, (Hear, hear, and for the p resent year, allowing for ended upon them since the peace. military resource not being crippled, that we might not be ezpenditure at between 60,000,0001. and 51,000 , 0001. laughter.) As military stations they are useless, and their f subject to wanton insult from other countries taking advan- reduction', h ula decide that the number of men a pre- government has not added to our fame in Europe. N . xt , use of that position. The army of Franc, , at this momentsexpenditure in our plantations If the house ' s ° the arm should be continued, then they with regard to our military cowisted of about 430,000 men, besides gendarmerie, and an sent composing mi lita ry d and refuse to pus the estimates. He sod subjugated territories. In the West Indies the almost innumerable host of national guards. In PIUMBiII could not turn ai rgun t grudge the stint of pay awarded the forme amounts to about 6,500 men, with an effective exp m ien- then was an army of 325,000 men, besides 460,000 ( Kr. Home)) ob e meted to war the number of men. (Hear.) tuna of 500,0001. a year. Is this expenditure et Ito:OPy of the second class, or landwehr. The army of men, whata hi e s hand the report of h ittofwhich (Hear, hear.) In the Mauritius we keep also 2 , 000 men, t • commi ea Austrit, at this moment, consisted of ao leu than He held ilB2B we have ex- Parnell was chairman, in reference to the army at a cost of about 90,0001. a yes:. Since he Meuritius and 352 genera', 2,084 staff e Son 16,545 o ffi cers, 49 non- Sir He nry ~ n. which report stated that " the army roded 200,0001. on military works at t commisaioned officers, and 539,000 troop.. Ho paid not bet and navy question , adeeeteee anditwas f which 'is to ately we have commenced new works, part o sadt ee this country was to run a race in military establOhments and navy were a great t.et expenditure, limitthat saving cost another 200,0001. Them works e with foreign countries ; but that, in the position which this only by keeping lee within a proper a Mauritiu s e P i e s Ito be required , because fh inhabitants country held, end seeing around us all the nations of Europe could be established. No man would say that at present are lei, l . and t h e armed almost to the teeth, It would ill befit this country Canada, w i t h it r iend ' important mi oar) its state of government required an increase an station , from their French merely to maintain itself in a position to relieve its troops of soldiery. h ostile to our dominion, pansy r His ditto boo. (Mr. F. Mar i e ) (Her.) 1840 is lo i Itlx from Colonial-office misgovernment , a corps were raised, an origin, Pee domestic foes from on colonial aerobe, without retaining some margin at least had stated that n who ofsuch Then to defen us from foreign and from for the protection of its interests at home, and the amble- he (K . r Hume) was one of those approve d u he maw in them thesaving of Orange of without and from within, sea . nano of in digniey ante mg the nations of Europe. The charge corps, A ninon. are required. Next, with regar for the land forms dieting the present year was 3,562,4311. ; troops backwards " and '' tl • ehof the o f Great in 1646 7, the military expenditure, after d. in the last rstimate it was 3,885,5881. : showing • decrease of before a committee bet two- in ontriOutions, amounted to 83,0001. ; in 1848 that expen '- 93,1581. The a( xt vote was for the staff; in 1849.50,1 c was Britain were retained for the purpose of relieving those e ontri'tuttone, and the military force was tore was, I believe, greater, 173,27GL ; this year, 164,9161., showing • redaction of abroad ;" . and the f it oral, re nabl TO ors theye to approve mu d Medi decreased the increased to 3,700 men and . more That wag the year of t►e 8,4601. Rh hon. friend complained that officers were not of colonial corps, as en ou ythe bthe showing of riots. Ceylon affords a capital instance of .i reduced in the same proportion as men; he would 'De by public expendeture. Now, he thought , y a mi nt, ignorance, and bigotry of the Celonia office. mismanage this vote that there had been reduced two general officers , his right hon • friend, that they were entitled to red ucti o n_ (Hear, hese., Ludy, ) with regard to our military two aides de-camp, five assistant adjutant-generals, one of the troops at home by reason of the colonial corps. (Hear, tu° of our colonies, properly so assistanoquartermaseer general, and two =Gioia of brigade- been) But the cue was for different,for in , • 1848 Instead of expenditure on account instead culled. This is a question of principle. That with regard to 108 000 all "toff officers, either at home or abroad, whom the go- • reduction, We had the troops increated t o adduced . ? Why, our military stations and plantations was • question of et a foment thought umecessery during the ensuing year. of 80,000 in I'3* ; and what reason was In t he following pediency. I maintain on principle that our colonies, pro • country . ( Hear , hear.) The next vote was kr the, public, department', which was the state of th . inthat year perlo so called, in so far es they are integral portions of t 94,1991. last year, and 92,68 a. this year; showing • • decrees yesr, 1847 the troops numbered 113,000 ; a empire, but do not contribute tower de the general revenue for he (Mr. Hume) took the ranee of the house " as to w hen - of 1,5151. ; and the decrease would have been larger, bu t defray all their of the empire, ought In ordinary times to policy ; but the go some additional charges that had been brought Into that thee reerogruaion would not be the, better po t . t _ e wanted own ezpenses-(hear, hear)-and if they want troops for estimate. The Royal Military College formed the next vote, Tenement met him with the statement tha t believed 1 erewas loos' purposes, they ought to pay for them. At the same on which there was a smell ileums of 6131 - from 17,4081. troops for India," where at the time he I and o why . time they are entitled to claim the complete management ,f to 16,8911. The next vote was the Royal Military war. Well, at present there was pease n In dia , II wished their local affairs. (Hear.) I therefore maintain we ought reduced? (Her, hear.) • Asylum, comprehending the educational institutions were not these m en . _ . no _ for twelve __,_ to keep troops ,in our real colonies for imperial pur. both here and in Ireland. Upon that vote there to know why remain should no e t f be e , et pii t t etilon '"'Y d pose'. Omitting the' question of the amount of tom to be was • decrease of 6411.-the difference between 19,2971. months ? (Dear, hear. butted lea y__ / k• 449 000 an d the kept at home or in our plantations, I contend that lam and 18,6671.; the saving would hays been greater, but now sought to be vote ,he would ta e , i n the vote ade ei entitled onor to oo :l 4:7o 6 fora lisrledanduetWa gruitunin:oefoo,urtibe:aoeioni. thamthisecle°m:pihtlavie4ilnadeyee:Bthfooetteiltißilleuoogi:ieena:li the onidredththeseu:caprt oohupeeghroluutyngsoketetntwestollebdcei, such • reduction wouM be in aneordanee with the that ind o e i e empire. (Hear. member for Montrose tar • reduction of e 000 tome of itotiaybsilal advantage n : o met, , o that ll whisk l baronet who had just sat down to have said that o meb,tein the (rem Sir W . Mokswonh) Ile p =erg " t th ood ere tite ( b . O N n. o b'a n ro o nc . to have acid so. At aid " n WhliCsi"owt"n dophionwrionh.weca:lthal vote the w y ith ceo7 F 4 , l 4 bore.han eiKto presume a s h o f : e n y to: iw m uao utcenkt a t oduy lk bo:r s e yildao,sor a otfe.o.iobona Irgttutrzriietuttretni,:ddinreductionoerrspbe•n ,:v,eexcept swhic hrstpseiibot h uhreermb l yion n drht botbe, 7 al , dt o o: bleyy m . t oi r noe . : e t; the w e dltohnreei colonies use recollect f o t r tb e that oi t o t e h ::: I s h o:n 1 f 4 :: 5 , 0 00ear. (Hear.) men o eh aot e could not ON of what use they were exce pt to the mercantile interests of this country. No 'one could way. As for New Zealand. in that colony there could be no should not now come forward to ask for a reduenun in the amount of troops necessary to protect those colonic.* wh e formed the chief market f or their manufactures. He ' Nu ll ask the house were they i s suc k a safe positionm ot admit of their withUrawing any of th e troopo — Would the house eon/tent to withdraw any of the troo s Ireland ? If the government f e l t th a t t h ey could 'Oh c "1 (ideate withdraw 9,000 or 10,000 o f th e troops from IrelMerai they would gladly do so, but such coefidence should too b e placed in the peace and tranquillity of that country u se some honourable gentl e men w ou ld appear to soeee- The honourable gentleman the member for the Weei Riding of Yorkshire said that he had consulted a min. tasy man, either a Hanoverian or an Au•tralisa. (Laughter.) He thought that when advice was ask.o on trews matters, it should not besought from a foreigner. Tiny were proved to be an overmatch far the foreigners as far as mill. tarn matters went, and if hon. gentlemen preOr•• d the p_osttion of the foreigners he wished them but the English were as far superior to them as one thing ce o a b e to another. Hon. gentlemen said that they were aesous keep faith with their creditor. but they should e l se keep faith with their soldiers, and all he could ray was, the if the motion of the hon. member for Montrose was moue they would give strength to the disiffected and dienattet t d ia L every part of her Meknes 'a dominions. Mr. MACGREGOR gave the government credit t r the reductions they had already accomplished, and relied upon sincerity in prosecuting the work or economy. Friel :us', to the last session, he had calculated that about four u...lious meld be saved out of the eight millions 'pen , on the *nay, navy, cad cir :mince. He n ow f oun d th at 2.600,0001 , had been actually reduced, and more was promised. lie was convinced that further retrenchments were possible, wipe dally in the colonies, but he objected to pus a sweepioe vow which might prove emberrassing to the public service and unjust to the gallant men compering our armies. Sir B. HALL said that, whenever the army es inane were brought forward, hon. gentlemen conneetel with the army, when they joined in the uissussion which anoe there upon, behaved with extraordinary forbearance. Th• gun lint now was, whether it was now judicious to make any reduction in the expenditure of the army and navy ; hon. gentlemen voted for the expo editure, while they spoke against taxeion, and the hon. gentleman who had just sat down was willing to see tea scion reduced, and the window tax abolished in panicuiar. They knew that the window tax amounted to too mu ..as of money, and he would ask him how it was p - uitle for but to take any one way of reduci-g taxation, at the tam- taas that he voted for the full expenditure of the c. ,retry? (Hear, beer.) After the discussion which took ps-e, Its was sure th.t his noble friend at the head of the d vein• ment would be able to sty that gentlem•u on his side, and many on the other side t I the house, bad no right to vote for a re of the taxation because they voted for the full ex, They could not coneeientiously adopt such a coarse. re& they voted for the full expenditure. He would with much pleasure vote in favour of the motion of the eon. mt Leber for Montrose. Mr. STANFORD expressed his approval of the meoner I which the estimates had been laid upon the table. Ile re gretted that ar y discredit lied beeo attempted to he ea.* on that noble service—the army. Any man could take up thme estimates and me how every stiffing of the public meney ass s; cot, and he said it was highly ert ditsble to any g .veree ment that estimates should be placed before the marl in that manner. Srfar from there bars to large a force, the opinions of eminent men s re the other way. He deprecated the imputation which h. been east upon the transeendaut genius of this age (the D .ite of Wellington). The hon. member for the West Rid: g had also spoken slightenly of the naval forest. It was his acre to see the army and navy as glorious as they had ever been. He was glad to hear that it was elm determination of e ment net to suffer any one of our colonies to be tn. u from us. He was not a supporter of the government co other *awl ins, but on this occasion they should have his supper; and he weuld not pander to popularity by asking for a re. deletion in 'that force which was necessary to maintein the glory of the con' try. Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE believed it was p.rfecy possible to have an iner-aced s ill iency with a elm. oahed expenditure. He called the attention of hon. pre.. - .emett to the committee which eat on this subject in N 7 lie wanted to know why the report of the commission en cat carried out. Unless they began at the bead the' . eo;i:d have no reform. There was the Hone Guards managing the infantry aid casalry, the ordnance in one de?ar•ment and the commissariat put under the treasury. Ile wetted to know why every one of these were not under case .ead ; this system having been directed by the commission. It was evident that if you had one head able to ace Ault for everything, you would introduce greater economy and vigour ii. to the system. The St cretary at War W 4. Cot to be blamed, for there he was a financial secretary ; be •ad no power in carrying out anything The boa. member for It sading had spoken of the creditable way in which the estimates were given, but they were in the pre cise form in which they bad been for the last thirty or forty years. Great fault had been found with the bon. member for the West Riding for one assertion which be had ,rade, which was not founded on fact, and which he was sure the bon. memb r Aid tend, because his motives were not from that base p ‘polar ity which was sometimes sought in boroughs. He (Hr. Cobden) had made an amnion that the army was kept up for the benefit of the scions of aristocracy. He (Mr. Osborne) took leave to differ from him altogether. The Liverpool Financial Reformation So ciety bad published a.veral ignorant pamphlet,. He could assure the house he had taken p.rticular pains urn tl:is subject ; he bad gone into the pa.cte.s of the officers of regiments, and had found that a great pre portion were junior sons of capitslists—men who had made money in fair and honest ways. He found that in a neat proportion of the infantry, the efficen were the sons cat very poor men, and the working branches of the army were co kept up for the benefit of the aristocracy. The boa. member f Glasgow had announced, in his new chive. T. :f Charecllor of the Exchequer, that the French army CA double what the English army did, but the hon. gentle tuna forgot to state that the French arms- quadrupled ail in the estimate he had furnished to the haus :, the e; hole of the ordnance anti every ebr.rge of every dernipti. it ass included. As to the clothing of the army, he thou: hr. it a moat unfortunate thing that they should pay the irenerrl officers in the way they did, and before hon. gent eraen were satisfied with the able drawing up of the estimates, they should inquire whether they could not te.,ke saving by putting the clothing on a different system. There were 147 colonels of regiments; 90,0001. per acnum was allowed the colonels tor clothing ; 1,8401. to each eolearl 'or cl per anuum might be eared by taking the clothing 1 , .t.) :bar own hands. The clothing of • private is the hee cot oth o in f s e clo in in ? far: w ry o , sumotthiento the spent ooloo being ng lt. became pocket. be 21. 6s. ; of a private in the Foot Guards, 31. 15s tte of the line, 41.; the Blues, 31. 45.; but the Lite .Guar 81.135. 3d. The cost in 1847 of clothing 3;0,12s Fieo el: troops in Algiers was 461,000 e, ineiudic¢ r . f , s:c. equioage. The average cost of clothing r.. in France was 11. 13s. 2,1.; in Prussia, 11. las I t e If he could only get a vote of the house he was certain would put this system of clothing on a totelly eitf . e nt re system. What was the system as to our cavalry I , .1 were 28 reeiments, exclusive of the howehold brigs .e. !. t.. commissioned and 31 non.commi afoot ennsolidation of '23 mimes!' to 12, a oo let o d o ra io ro g n 2 e 2 uar boo ds 2 11 ; e 1 d 3 b 6 o l oo l o t o orst oo s t an i3o d r 4 ed 3 ,ll 6 ,o m tliii en ,v, : i. e n ie . ;h vh7 ' , 4 g t ; the ordnance, by . throwing every thing under a reep.r . l 7: minister, you might save half • million. He belie, ?„, the committee sitting up stain would only make a m: • m u n e why 00, oin t , h oi e no b d ad , boo system by m o t ! , ....pzu,rder: I'a6 the shou l d There bew " reta n i o ned re . RTON said that if he differed from his 'l•o. to: ets • friends, ie would only be to say that they had paid b we oo atr oa r om epo bo rt o , f a o n o ti m b i e n g twoo ave . Col. CHATTE.his support to the motion of te a a regard to economy. Mr. MIJNTZ felt himself in the same difficulty as Friday, when the hon. member for the West Riding hroueht forward hi. motion. The prat at motion, like it, was ,t .11 abstract character, requiring explanation not yet if." before he could support it. Col. SltiTllolils would support the proposition of dr government, b cause he was desirous that they should 4 ' prepared to meet any revolutionary outbreak f ro m •he rsfis cats ot the cauntry—(a laugh)—as agaiost whom he 1. full force of the old saying, that a bird in the hand as. 'No ll two is the bush. Colorel REID objected altogether to the proposed c'm' pulaory examination of officers, and said he would throw q his commission rather than submit to it. Ile redivit,.. however, that these was no sort of incentive to pr study, and that the veriest idlers had the same (+Awe promotion as the studious and scientific officer. Ile w.dld suggest a voluntary examination. ?str. COBDEN showed that the reduction lately made '' the army had not e xtended to the of fi cer.' list in its d uo proportion, and included none but subalterns. !duels et itr apparent dirninuivn had, moreover, resulted from the e n ' . ployment of several regiments in India, wh. nee the y wet , apt to turn up 'gain. Aa we had entrust , d several e•lolas with tha free administration of their own affairs. wr 610 1 now withdraw our soldiers; or if the military M e e e not be spared, we should be justified in asking the co: di .3 to pay tor them. Lord J. MANNERS said that all that had feel , stated that evening amounted to this, that. riT i* l t f all the reductions together, by the withdrisra troops from our eoloniesAthey only amou nted to 7..'d or? . whereas the hon. member for Montrose demanded a re , ho• Lion of 10,000 L MONIJyIp!T4 H3ST9SICA_BRITANNICA. Sir S. INGLIS. in the absence of Mr. HuU, moved for returns of the east of preparing for publication, and of printing and publishhas, the work entitled " Monuments Histories Britannic. or, Material. for the Wstory of Britain ;" of the number of espies printed; of the number of copies sold, and of the pri.s at slum sold; of the names of the person! or parties to whom copies have been given gratuitously ; of the names of the passes or parties who have applied for copies, but whose applie Alone have not been complied with together with the number of copies remaining undispoeed of , and also copies of the correspon dence which wok place in November an , l December, 1818, between the &cretin of Sista for the Home Department, the Lords of the Treasury, sad the Master of the Rolls, to prding the sale and distribution of the said work. Agreed to. THE CEYLON COMMITTEE. Mr. BAILLIE, in answer to Mr. S. Wortley, as chair men of the Ceylon Inquiry commilece, said that, owing to some imperfect and misleading reports having transpired relative to the evidence taken before them, the committee had that day c ane to the determination of prosecuting the investigation for the future with closed dove. PARTY PROCESSIONS_ IRELAND) BILL ; LORDS' AMENDMENTS. Sir O. DEBT mid ttaT - oniy antnienent that was at all *Wrist was ens by which it was provided that all arms brought to meetings should be forfeited at the time by per sass bringing dom. He dna& the eetendment was an Vraises tin bill, and be, tharefors, moved that this si ntats onowlanlo be omit to. TM samisens wen taws weed to. ADJOURNIIIINT DURING THE EASTER HOLIDAYS. Lord R. CIROSVEITISiciniTein ask Lord J. Rawl! whether he would wove the adjourawent of tie house so se to include Passion Week is the Butte. reale. _ _ ____. Lard JOHN RUSSELL proposed to 4110•11 the ad journment on the Tuesday in Pasion week to Monday, the Bth of April. lie had already stated the motion that he intended to make in the house on that courtion. It was a day earlier than usual, and two days earlier than it had been formerly. THE NATIONAL GALLERY. In answer to Mr. Oor.s, Lord J. RUSSELL said he understood on inquiry that there had been no pictures ordered to be cleaned daring the last two year,. At the same time it was fair to say that the trustees had been satisfied by what orders hat already been consp!eted, and that no injury bad been done thereby to the pictures of the old maiden. With respect to the further guts. tion of the hon. gentleman, no serangement had been finally made with respect to the National (+Alm. It was a question that was under the consideration of the goverhinent whether in some way they might not provide better room for the pie tufts that lass wen gain by individuals to the Gel!cry, pnr ticularly the Verson collection, but so arrangement had yet ben made on that subject. THE GRECIAN BLOCKADE. la SPIMOT to Mr. istTr — nu and Mr. E. Damian'', Lord PALMIIRSTON stated grounds for believing that the letter of Count Neseeirode, published in the Jaily journals of that m. ruing, was authentic; that the meiiitims of France in the Greek dispute hed been offered, and WM still pending, but that matters were not yet ripe *rough to reader the production of some men that were Inked for altogether convenient. WITHDRAWAL OF RUSSIAN TROOPS. Is earwig. to Mr. ADMIT uunt M d he had Every reason to -- rAL — ON • sai believe that the teems of the Rmaian try , ps bc j and 10,000, the auzaber stipulated fur by the suracgmarnt of Let year, would evacuate Moldavia and Wallachia as BOOR 111 the state of the weather permitted. He had no lemon to espest that arty tetanus had taken place la the isteatims of Maas oa that subject. TROOPS IN INDIA. Is ar.swer to Mr. Fasroitu — i, -- Me. F. MA.ULII wee understood to say that 15 Tears was the period of service 'Minded for Ills 'tenants In leas. The goniontent endeavoured to conlioe It to that term as nearly as ble, bat mine regiments had been then con siderably oo tr. (11w, hear:)