The Express. — London, England, 1850-04-16 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—MoNDAT, AruL 16. The house stet at fir o'clock. Lard Lam:rain sat BPI ier. PETITIONS PRESENTED. ILORIeI7I.TeIt•L PlitoTiCTlon, sta.—By Lard STANLEY, 'Rom St. Pew's, Martel, preying for uarienlrarel pmts.:two. Tka noble lord also proevatei eve similar petitions. EntosTS.—Lard PORTMAN oomplared that he had metaled err discrepancy is tho return of exports for 1848. Certain returns had recently been made of the exports of that year whisk did not cnerseporta with returns made at the period. Lord GRANVILLE said that information which had sub sequonily Ora famished had been added in the last return Such more were Impossible to be avoided. A central board had now bean established at the Custom House, by which he bored they would be prevented in future. Posv•Orrice —By the Doke of ARGYLL. from Olawfow and other places ; the Duke of lIONTROSE. from several plawie in Sweland ; the Bishop of LONDON, from Stoke Newington and other places ; Earl of NOUN rcAsinLL, from some place. in Somerset • and the Marquis of BREAD ALBANS, from the Inclopeadent Chspil, Spatted', against Bawdily labour I. rot-often. CLllitot OrrinClto BILL.—In answer to Lard RIONS BALI. The Bishop of LONDON declared his intention to bring leeward a bill to estabbsa a court of appeal in cared charges of homy liid against moisten of the established ehurch, in espromair of the jud,nial sommittes of the privy council. The hid would he iatrodund as soon r its Mares had un dergone a proper raamisatieslay his right rev. brethren on the episcopal bench. His lordship added, that his propord court would he strictly a clerical tribunal. COCNTY COVRTS —By Lord SONDES, from Eta Denham, ravioli for an extension of the principle of County Courts. EXCHEQUER BILLS BILL—BRICK DUTIES BILL. Thor balls &really west through committee, and wore reported I. the house. Their lordships then adjourned at a quarter before six o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, APRIL IS. Tito Seatitta took the chair et 4 o'clock. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. NAVAL ASSUITANT Scaosose.—By Bir R R. INOLIS, hoes the Rsysl Calera of Physiedsns of London, la favour of the resolution adopted by the how as regards assistant santeene in the navy. STAMP Drum BILL.—By Mr. ELLIS, from the Mid land Railway Csmpany ; Lard HOTRAM, two. • plan in Yorkshire ; Mr. WALPOLE hoes law stationers of Lon don, 'palest contain portions of this bill. PtIIIMINIIIWT OF Dawrit.—By Bit J. WALMSLEY, from Neilson sad Co. of Olsagow ; Me. BEIGE r, from Glasgow, for the abolition of pcniehment of &nth. Vine nT BALLOT AND ELICTORAL DIVISIONS —By Mr. C. LEWIS, from Ledbury, Is layout of them pro positions. Lenora In FACTORIZE—By Mr. B. DENISON, from Dewsbury and plena in Yerkshire ; Mr. COBDEN, from workmen of Broskroyd Batley, ar.d from workmen of Union Mill, Township of SJothill, Yorkshire; for an eleven boors act. _ _ _ in;c;ii;;; iliciolov.—By Mr. BRIGHT, from a public meeting held in the I'm Trade Hall, Manchester, spinet Mato establishomits for teaching religios. RICULAR EDCCATION BILL.—B, Mr. C. LIIBHIN 3- TON, from Chelsea; Mr. CHRISTOPRER, from Liocolee shire and Liverpool, against the bill. Mr. HUMS, from Btirlinesltim. in its favour. Tai MALT TAI —By the Earl of MEECH, from a plate is Scowl. for the abolition of this tat. THI MIORLAND lINIYORM.-By Mr. HUME, from the absbitants of &Ming and the vicinity, complaining of the indecency of the Highland kilt or Sinew' worn by soldiers of her Majesty whilst stationed in that neighbourhood— (loud laughter)--alleging that the inhabitants had at times been subjected to learnt' spectacles in cone queue. of the inclemency of the weather—(renftwed laughter)—a- d pray ing the house t t take the subject into ita most serious con sideration. (Cantinued laughter ) _ SIIIPAILATiON OF CHtiren AaD STAT2.—By Sir J. WALMSLEY, from C. E. lisw.ins, as the chairman of • wean/ at Lien rpool. for the separation of church and state. Coroco BATES —Be Mr. BRIGS f, from • congregation at Wiodoor ; Mr. RICARDO, from a place in Staff wdrhire ; Mr VERNON SMITH, from Nwthamptott ; Mr. THE. LAWNY, from Pr) wain D mentors of Sidbury, Devon ; of Enacts Chapel; Brampton Chapel ; Ewen ; Overlaps Winsford, Career; Para-street Chapel, Hatfield; Olney; 0 :Tinos ,Salop ;0 reatYarmouth ; Brook-etreetChapel, Tavirock ; from Ind prudent, of Mtnaleld, Newmarket; Bauman! Coepol, Woodwidgo, Suffolk; Associated Inde pendent Choraim of Darius' and Northumberland, nignad by rolnistcro and eblegatee ; Olney; Potterspenny i North smpton ; Alton. Hanoi; Baptism of Coo:agsby, Lificole ; Clay-street Chapel. Cambridge; Cheddar, Somormt; Oloey ; Bt. N. n's, lionised= ; for the abolition of Chanh Hates. NOTICES OF MOTION. COUN IY RETURNS. Mr. FREWRN rid tat he had moved for certain mums from aunty treasurers. Several Marren of districts or liberties bad neglected to send in those returns, and he be lieved there were certain treasarers w►o never would comply with t►e directions which had been given, and be save axial that it ihey were not brought in within a abort time, he should brie g these districts from which returns bad not been received under the notice of the hour. RDUCATION IN IRELAND. Mr. HAMILTON give notice that OD the home going lato a committee of ripply, he would move as address to her Majesty en the sutject of ' , location is Ireland. Expsyrits OF THE COURT OF CHANCERY. Mr. G. TURNER gave notice that on 3rd May he would Me for leave to being in • bill to diminish the delay red repeats of powering, in the High Coon of Clianisery. PEERS' REFRESHMENT ROOMS. Sir De L. EVANS wished to ask ' the Pint Lord of the Tramp wlipthrr, la permeate of the report of the Commissioners of Pine Att., it was the intention of re. verameat to impend 1,0.501. on pictures miming to the chase to decorate the poem' retreohnt-tit room% Lord J. RUSSELL said a sum had been allowed 1%.r the purpose, and the rows would he deoorated in the manner la with* the CliMaie.4olllPre of Fine Arta had determined. Sir D. L. EVANS eked if iliTiii.Ww..l;l;i7il;;:b. estimate ? — TaoZitANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that it had been settled than a sum of 4,0001. should be proposed to parliament for the promotion of the Rae arts, the rum to be attermatds distributed by the Commissioners of the Fame Arts ; that it included these decerstions. QUARANTINE ESTABLISHMENTS. Mr. HUME said that some time ago there was a report recommending the abolition of the quarantine establish ment.. He knew that government had been in commuoi• cation with fozeigs date. on the subject, and he wished to know whether ulnas'', had been take, by the government to modify or reduce the quentatlne estabeishments of this einintry Mr. LABOUCHERE had hopes of reducing the qua rantine evabliehments. Tee entire expense did not exceed 1,500 i. There were three establishments; one at Liverpool, ens oa the river Thames, and one in the Isle of Wight. He believed it to be impeveible to reduce the establishments lower, unless they did away with quarantine altogether; unlace they could induce other countries to believe that it would be • judicious step If they were altogether to do away with quareiriae. He believed that there were peewee in some countries, especially in the Mediterraseast states, who were interested in maintaining quarantine. THE ROHISH CHI.7HCH IN MALTA. Is tamer to a quietist from Sir R. Ito Lia, with refer nos to a resolutim of the council at Malta, deciarini the church of Rome t be the domioaat church it that island, Mr. HAWES replied that LIM Grey had intionfed to the governor that, should an ordinance he introduced and passed la the eoun r il to carry that reerletion int o e ff ect , hi e lordship would teal it to he lie duty not to mammies it. _ _ LORD•LIEUTENANT OP IRELAND. Lord J. RUSSELL tam notice that on Monday, May 6, be would stove f r leave to Ming in a bill by the abolition of the office of Ls-I-Lieutenant of Ireland. and the appoint ment of a fourth Secretary of State. (Hear, tear.) PRACTICE OF THE COURT OF CHANCERY. Mr. BOUVERIE wished to ask the Solieitor-General whether It was the intention of government, by bill or otberwiee,to pemoist to carry Into effect the recomseada tione of the coemnit!eit, auggeatleg important improvements in the present mactiee of the Court of Chancery. The SOLICITOR-OENERAL said that the subject hed occupied the attention of the Lard Chaneellor, who had pre pared a bill, whi.h would h ave a miterial effe ct in diminialt inr the nusher of °Mos, and putting them under proper regulations and nothing but the u nf or t una t e i n di s p os i t i on of the nobli lord prevented the bill from being lad on the table of the house. SALES OF INCUMUERED ESTATES (IRELAND). Mr. STUART asked ho . many sales had smelly been erected aadtr the order of the coantiwioners far the isle of iscambered (states in Ireland ? How many orders had actually been made for the mile of t►os estates by those And whether, in any ease, or in how many cases, applicati.a ►ad been mad. to the commissioners to h..e the sale erected 's t►e terms of p►yment of half the purchase arses. Th.. SOLICITOR-GENERAL replied that if the hon. and I. treed e.t.d alma wished to obtain authentic informa tion be should wove for • Cetera. HAVINO - 8 - BANKIL Mr. H. HERBERT asked if the Chaseellor of the Ex. chequer bad been able to wake up his clad when the Bac cgs Bank. Bill would be brought in ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHIQUEB said that, fa the preemie state ul public bedews, it was very difficult for ban to command a day, bat be would belays it oa the Stet day he mild. STAMP DITTIES BILL. On the nation for going bete coeinting• on this bill, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that there baell hew se arch inisappreheinies that he might t that le the altered LW, now bears the house, thane was solit aire whatever. There were a esasiderable number of reductioas. but .n no kraus whatever bad . say additional tag been lei I on boned that whisk wee effiraland in Om lest schedule of th. bill. Ogreenument bad iNsived a great sesher of reprewatatiowe. Ile helped hare. gentleincs weld swept the spleen that he could aot teem* thew le detail ; they had hen sent dews to this Board at liaised nvemae, and had bee. *leased and sub eeptentle had been eteridered. He night say that !Ai of orines nut of PIO had beat removed by the alters lions wade is the bill. Objeetiesa had bee. made le the at- THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 16, 1850. an ad valorem ditty, not • 'vaulted semi, bat an equede per tentage, rislag in proportion to the initrament. being ose-hall per sent. en mortgage deeds or souveyancee, until they roes tea certain automat. Hie ht hon. friend the assabar for Cambrkige ll•iversity **Med ta that . iHe (4k• Ciaseellor of the Moshe ) muld only s ' a r r= he lied ressited. a great atuielme. Mummy of Tie qualm at this paint wee, wheals, AAA parson *to beernwed a large amount W 6/ set ter Soy dm same epz t o mm ea m dm, m • pew Pans& wire- besenrod 111 woos,. (S eer, hear.) He hod proposed. wed be emus' to abide by an ad cabman peitelpleas of some meet bow to whatever might be the alike 01 tie imam He had beard it urged that that. Right he a ease of 100,0001. lout to a great India house to omen Its failure, aad that it would be bard to eisbjeet Nish a tromostioe to a proportionate stamp ; bat was not the ems just us hard when the poor shopkeeper, borrowing a malt sou to sent • mewing exigeaey, was made to contribute • proportionate amount to the stamp duty? Wear, bear.) It might be epee se se objection to tax borrowings at all, bat surely it was just that there should be the rams per ventage I. the cu of the large as of the small borrow ing. (Hest, hear.) He quite felt that the amount charged on some borrowings would be very large, and, therefore, having oommusicated with the Comishatisners of 'Bleed Brereae, he was prepared to propose en equitab'e redaction. The rate proposed was now one half per cent. He proposed to reduce it to one quarter ; that was to say, on the 1001. The bon. member opposite ealculated that the government propeeitLn would ad I half a million to the revalue. Hs (the Chancellor of the Exchscpmr) could only say that he should be very happy if the hon. member's pre dietiorl armed cut tiorreet. He hal;gone over the secants cars• foily ar ith the Commissioners of Inland Revenue,some of whom had bum Commissiosien of Stamps, and the conclusion they had 0011 i• to WAS that the loss consequent on the introduction .f the pr. sent bill might be taken at 300,0001., or perhaps 270,0004., and the proposal he had just announced, reducing the per centage from one to one quieter might entail • farther loss of trona 30,0001. to 60,0001. He could produce as figures that would settle the exact amount He did not know that there were any other general observations requiring an answer, except that of the hon. member for Carlow es to existing deeds. If that hen. member had taken the trouble of referring to the act, be would have found that the case of existing deeds was provided for. Mr. DISRAELI said that the right hon. gentleman, although prefesaing to defer his explanations for the elusion la committee, had yet favoured the house with some gourd obeervatiou as to the ar reagemente of the reposed bill, which proved them to be of rather a complicated kind. He understood the right nem g en tleme n t o sAy that he had brought in the measure for the advantage of what he was pleased to ten the landed interest. His object was, it seemed, to Jurist the small proprieten—not the least important seefioa of that interest, by the modification of such stamp duti:s as affected their transactious. The right hoe. gentleman said that at the time he introduced this measure, he informed the house that he could not maks this beneficial aerangement for the small proprietors, wales • he made at the same time some charge which should press heavily on the large proprietors by the , adoption of an ad votary,' duty. He (Mr. Dieraelil could not remember that the right hon. gentleman had made any such 'Moment. (The Chancellor of the Exchequer—" Oh, yes.") His statement, when he introduced his budget, was, " I am going to introduce a measure (r the benefit of the landed in t . I anticipate that the change will cost 3.50,0001., and I am going M sacrifice that amount from the surplus I have in hand." That was an intelligible proposition, but what did he say now ? He said, "I am prepared to b neat the small landed proprietors to the extent of 3.5),0001., but I must get a compensating amount by taxing the large pro privates. (Hear.) It appeared now, in fact, that this 150,0001. was not, in fact, any /Maui in st all. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER slid it would not be in order to refer to what had pawed in a former debate ; but surely the bon. member's memory must be de fective, ming that he had put words in his (the Chancellor of the Eichequer's) mouth whi b be had never uttered, and —unintentionally of eaurse—had misrepresented other words uttered not five minutes slue. He appealed to the house whether, when he brought forward the stamp duties he bad not distinctly stated his project. What he had stated war, that he proposed a measure with r gird to the stamp dutiee, the loss by which would be somewhere about 300,000!., and the removal of the brick duty at some where about 400,000!., both together about 750.0001. Now, the hon. gen laman said that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had somehow oe other got 350,000/. into hi, pocket ; he hoped it might be so, but he was seiolly at a loss to know from whence it was to c0...e. When he stated that he anticipated a loos of about 300,0001., he stated also that be proposed to relieve transactions of a scull amount, and to increase the duty on those of a large amount, and that on the bilanee of the account, he calculated that tint has would result. (Hear, hear.) Ile had concealed nothing, neither had be are-ivied anybody. (Hear, hear.) And with regard to the application of the ad valorem duty, when he ',ought forward the budget, and again on the following Monday, when he moved the reso:ution on the stamp duties, be stated most distinctly, and ho helieveJ nine tenths of those who beard him would corroborate what he s.id—(hear)—that he proposed to a•lopt the alralorens prioriile throughout. In order that chile might be no further mistake be wi-bed again to sate distinctly that he proposed to adopt an ad ra/orens duty in all C 1111•4, but to modify it so u not to require a different priced stamp for transactions of nearly the same amount : for instance, there would be a certain stamp for transactions of 2,0001, another ftr those of 2,3001, another for those of 2,5001.,and so a, ruing by small jumps, instead of taking the enact act valorem duty in each , eparate ease, and tut upon the change taken altogether, including mortgages and bonds. there would be • loss to the revenue of from 300,0001. to 330.0001 Mr. DISRAELI rejoined—The right hon. gentleman had stated that the incr,ase of the ad valorem duty on large transactions would be the compensation for the decrease in the small transactions. If so, what was to be done with the 350,0001. which he would thus have beyond the surplus he had caleulated upon ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had stated ditttnctly that he increased the duty on the lather, and de creased it on the smaller tran sa ctions, and that on the balance he should lose about 330,0001. . . Mr. 001.3.131.. RN did not clearly understand by what NM,* the right bon. gentleman arrived at that result. He should like to know on what principle he had based his ail culstion to arrive at the e inciusion that attar settling in his own mind the am runt of loss which would arise from the de crease of the duty in the miller, and the gain which would follow from the increase in the larger transactions, there would still be a loss of 300,0001. or 330,0001. The right hoc. gentleman had taken the loss on mortgagee and bonds At 60,0001. only, while the rest of the 101111 was to result from conveyances. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained that the great bulk of the loss would be on conveyances, which, from the greet bulk of the until transactions of this nature, ha calculated at 230,0001 ; but, in regard to bonds and m , rtireges, it was crosi lered that the low amount of duty would induce parties to stamp such deeds in all eases, whereas now the duty was often evaded on small transac tions. Mr. F. MACKENZIE asked in what manner, after the posing of this bill, it was intended to enforce the stamp duty on large transactions of thi. nature ? Would it not be evaded in the same way as, accorAing to the right hon. gen tleman's s'aMment, it was now on diets for swill sums ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It would not he worth while. Mr. HENLEY wished to know on what We the right bon. gentleman had arrived at the conclusion, that by chancing the mnrtgage duty from 10s. to 6s. per cent. he would Ise 60,0001. From what the right hon. gentleman had mid when he brought forward the budget, he did not gather any indication of the intention to tax annuities end jointures, or that any new bead of charge wan to be imposed upon the landed interest. (Hear, hear) But now it appeared, instead of receiving any relief, they were to be subj. cted to additional taxation. The .---.—... T ATTORNEY GENERAL thought it would be mere convenient to postpone the cousideration of the question, as to the propriety of taking annuities as ecusideration money, until they came to the schedule relating to that subject. With regard to the probable loss arising from the alteration of the duty on mortgages, bonds, covenants. and securities that most be • mutter of estimate ; but not so as to conveyances, for they could ascertain the actual proceeds of the stamps for those purposes. If hon. gentlemen would take the compara tive statement of the present and the proposed scale of duties in reference to conveyances, they would see that there would be a great saving its all transactions up to 1,0001., the stamp being at that amount a common one in both cases, of somewhere about 91. From 1.0001 up to 100,0001. the duty was much the same under the proposed and the existing system, but beyond 100,0001. there was a cohsiderable increase in the new scale. Conveyances of property above 100,00 W. in amount were, however, of rare occurrence; consequently. the results by way of compensation against the lose in the smaller transactions, arising from them would be very small. Mr. HENLEY thought he had reason to complain, after the explanation they had just heard from the Atto-ney. Osneral, of the conduct of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. On a former occasion, he had asked fur some account of the number of stamps of a particular charact r which had been issued, and he was told by the right bon. gentleman that he had searched the Stamp office, but could not obtain the int , rmation :squired. Now it appeared the government had it in their hands, and the Attorney. General, quoting it, endeavoured to show erectly what the result of the propose d change would be, so far as the stamps on conveyances were concerned. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said be was in a condition to prove what would be the Ines, but not to show what would be the gain —that lam* remain a matter of estimate. In the calculation he had made he bad estimated that two-thirds of the stamps were taken (or con vegancA, and the rat (or mortgages and bonds, but that 11111111 t bs a matter of gawk Mr. GOULDUBM observed that at present tits one pound stamp was applied indisaiminwely ti conveyances and moat pegs- but the right hon. gentleman append to bays die coveted bow many were applied to conveyances. (Rear.) Mr. MULLINOB believed that at present the 151. *tamp was not appliesble to sonveysnose, bat eovemd a mortgaie °Mose 10 0001. , to 15,0001., and a settlement of from 12,0001. 15,00 W.—tho amount produced by Ibis class of stamps wu 4,5001. or 4,6001., the &versos number of translations which it embraced being 300 Under the new scale, averag ing the transactions at 12,6001, mob, and taking the same number, 300, tbo stamp, which would be 621. 10s. saab, would produce 18,7601., and dedactin4 the allowsnoe to be loads for das difference Maw( en the mortgage• and tbe settle ments, they would be reduced down to a profit of 12,0001. on this item alone. (Hear. ) Sir IL WlLLOballitY thought it was only due to the landed Interest that they should know what new tares it was intended to impose. (lieu.) !Would an agreosent for a lase require to be stamped I As he road the bill, ho helloed It would he liable to a tax ands, the hoot of cove nants.. tie: CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought It would be mom convenient for him to give the exploitation danWellit&by the hos. baronet when they mate to the sche dule. He might, however, say that there was nothialt lathe bill wit* &mid fairly be mlbsd a new Sal. (Oar) The CHAIRMAN put the first claws*, bat ' Mr. BRIGHT interposed. He thought the beam wee ttalld upon to go on with the consideration of this bill M solimittee under circumstances of a mast unfavourable eharrester. (Hear, hear) Ha doubted if then were three Reuben In the house besides the Chancellor of the Bache. quer who understood the bill. (Hear, hear) There was a universal opinion out of doors, so Jar as he could gather it from the public papers, and from emveralog with people who were profewientaly interested in the question of stamps I —there was an universal impression that this proposition, which was to have relieved the country from 300,0001. of taxation, would really tend to Woman the tars, sepposing the same amount of transactions to take place under this bill as took place under the existing stomp Act. (Hear, hear) He had not, not, however, risen to Camps the merits of the bill, fur be Mid not made himself sufficiently master of it to do so, but t protest against its being premed through committee that night, seeing that much dissatisfaction existed In regard to it out of doors, and that it had but so meetly been placed is the hands of member's, that they were not in a position to go fairly into the discussion of the various details involved in a manner estisfactory to the house or the public. Whet he asked for was that more time should be given for considering the =ware before they were called upon to pass it through committee. (Hear.) The SOLICITOR-GENERAL did not think the hon. gentleman had done justice to himself or the other members of the how, when he said they found a difficulty in nn derstanding the bill. AU matters of figures were, toe cer tain silent, complicated, but all the provisions of the bill wen plain and capable of ready exolanstion ; and the hon. gentleman would find, if he would allow them to go into committee, „that any matters of difficulty which might occur to him or other hon. gentlemen would be ex plained. If, after going through committee, hon. gentlemen should find themselves unable to understand any part of the measure, or the amount of relief which it was intended to give, then the objection to farther progress would come with some weight; but he bad always found that the elucidation of Wisest this nature was muchMsaisted by the discussions in committee, and the explanations then given, and that in this respect a amenities of the whole boom was far more useful than a committee upstairs. As to the manner ha which the proposition would affect the , that must remain for the present a in itter of eel culation ; but Mom on whose judgment the government could depend gave it as their opinion that there would be • loss of 300,0001. Supposing this to be correct, and that the upper class of proprietors should be taxed by it to the eater t of 300,0001. more than they were at present, it was clear that the ri yule would be a relief to the amount of 600,0001. a year to the lower class. This would be a considerable advantage, not only to the smaller, but to the large proprietors. for tna: must necessarily be ben. final to them which facilitated the sale of property in small quantities, and so subdivide it smonest a larger class of proprietors. Believing that by snowing the bill to go through committm at ones it wee more likely to receive emendation than by deferring it, he hoped no further objection would be offered. (Hear ) Mr. MITCHELL dd hot think it would be just to apply the ad valorem principle to =earpieces noires the amount of the duty was exceedingly small. The fallacy was that in taxing mortgsges, while they supposed they were taxing property they were taxing debt. Mr. SAULEIR was favourable to postponement. There was no part of the keogdom where land was coLoentrated in the hands of so smell a number of persons as Ireland,' while, on the other hand, there wee the most extreme sub division in regard to the occupation. They bad heard of the advantage of subdivision in the ownership, and the faci lities which in that respect the bill would afford, but it was sot to be expected that that result could be e (Lead ' by a single operation. If such an al , video did take place at all, it would be gradual. Therefore, the government had chosen a most unfortunate moment to making the proposed alteration—a most under tunate moment for the creditor and encumb-red owner, be. mute the parties who intmded to make purchases during the next tour or five months in Dublin would calculate the ad valorem duty they would have to pay, they would deduct that amount from the purchase money, and they wou.d thus I visit an evil upon the poione creditor. The tandem , ' and t-nant, the mercantile and the booking iota rest of Ireland, had been unable to c monannicate their views re• grad ierr it to any hon. member of that house. Undi r such circurastaocer, be thought it would net be paying (roper respect to Ireland to proceed with the measure; but, at all events, it it were proceeded with in the present stale, be hoped its further progress would be postponed until the Irish members were afforded time to communicate with their constituents. Mr. HUME thought that It there was any portion of the community more likely than another to be benefited by the present hill, it was the people cf Zeeland. There was very little difittulty in undentanding the proposal, it hon. gen tlemen would consult the printed table with which they had each been furnished, inasmuch es that table contained the coot of the stamp (or every conveyance or mortgage up t.. 1,0001. The higher amounts were certainly not exp. a.ed, and he regretted that such an omission had taken place. (Hear, hear.) If • was of opinion that the coin. saittee might proceed with greet safety •to consider the fleet, second, and third clauses of the bill. The first repealed the old awe; the second enectsel the new reale, and the third merely stated certain excep ions. Toe public press, to whose exertious the community owed a great deal, had been d:scussing the measure, and the surge sdons of the newspapers were now publisoed. The 610VerilaatIC ha I Inured the house that the aggregate amount of tbe general taxation would be less under the new bill than it would be under the existing law, and therek re the measure ought to be proceeded sith at once. He (Hr. Hume) had been making inquiry on the subject at the Stamp-Mfieer, and he was there assured that nearly 309.0001. would he the de m wed amount of taxation in the ageregate. Ile, there - fore, hoped that no time would be lost in al:owleg the bill to give that general reds( which it was its design to 112 . Mr. CUNULLY agreed with the hon. member for Man cheater, that the consideration of the bill ought to be pulp mid for the pres.nt, OA there were very lew hon. members in toe house who could enter upon the question in its entirety. Lard J. RUSSELL believed that if they were to postpone the bill for a week, or a foruaght, or even for three week., they would be no further advanced in their views respecting it than they were at the present moment. (Hear, hear.) The objections advanced by the hon. members for Carlow and Donegal to the alterations proposed u they atiectei Ireland were not objections to the consideration of the bill on that Light only, but they would apply to its considera tion on any night during the Holm They were objections which would apply to the postponement of the cinsideratiGn of the Stamp Act altogether. The inequality of the Stamp Act had been remarked upon not only in writings and public meetings, but • committee of the House of Lords had pointed out its inequality and particularly its lulu lity in the heavy charge it entailed upon the small proprie tors. His right hon. fri.nd the Chancellor of the Ez• chequer bad for the last )ear devoted his attention to the subject. Very early in the present session it was an• mounted that the attention of the government had been directed to it. A month ago, his right hon. friend had stated the nature of the measure—that he proposed that the duties on the small proprietors should be diminished, and that he meant to make • more equal distribution of the duties with regard to the larger truest lions. Therefore, the principle of the measure had been for • month before the home. When the details wets stated, the resolution proposed, and the bill brought in, attention had been 'treated to the subject ; and his right hon. friend had had interviews with parties from various districts of the country, and he had endeavoured to meet and obviate their jest objections. (Hear.) Was there no inconvenience likely to arise from postponing this mea sure 1 Wes it convenient to postpone it tor • month 1 lc was not. Tree greatest inconvenience would be occasioned by postponement, as many trunactiens would be kept in abeyance. If there was • general sgreement as to the justice of some such measure, let the house go into a con •i -deration of the details of the bill, not to adopt all rho details at once, but merely to give its considerati , n I to this particular proposal, and to state objections, if there were aey, to that particular proposal. He hoped the ' house would at once enter upon a consideration of the measure, when the objections urged to the proposal of high duties on very large amounts, as defeating the object of the act, could be fairly and fully discussed. (Hear, hear.) Mr. MO WATT thought it due to the government to pro ceed with the elitists of the bill. Mr. ELLIS urged upon the house to proceed wi.h the bill without delay. Mr. liircasu. explained. He hopetrthe ht. on certain mnrtgaarie would be reduced to 2a. 6d. Mr. HE&LD thought the bill would operate diaadvan tageottely in the transfer of some descriptions of property. He wished to know how much the Treasury calculated the revenue would lode by granting relief in all came up to 1.0001. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that ho had stated a fortnight ago what the probable effect of the bill would be. Upon ell conveyances up to 1,3001. it would afford positive retie. Upon all conveyances (vita 1,3001. up to 100,0001 there would be a decrease. Up a convey ances beyond 100.0001 there would be an ince' ise. Upon mortgages up to 3,0001., there would be a decrease ; beyocd that tea re would be an increase. The lam to the revenue upon the whole of the conveyances, and upon some of the mortgages, allowing for the increase upon other mortgages, would be somewhere under 300,0001. He calculated that the lam upon the whole of the new schedule, which war with two eaceptious a relief, wo u ld be from 330,0001. to 350,00)1, but of course this nould only be an approximation to the actual lose. Still, this was his calcula as. (Hear, hear.) He hoped hoc. gentleman would urge their objrctions to the various parts of the bill when the same were submitted for consideration. If the meuure turned out to be so objectionable that it ought not to pass, so let It be, but it was only fair to the house and the country that the objections should be stead and met in the usual manner. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LAW understood that Ike object of the bill was to recluse the amount of duty wader 1,0001 and that the estl mate of the lose to the neonate wee based up= that redue• lion. There wee every desire to reduce the stamps under 1,0001., but hon. gentlemen en his (the protectionist) side of the house did not admire the imposition of an increased burden on sums above 1,0001. Mortgages were least able to bear additional taxation, and yet it was now proposed to place a shifting bunion o n them lobs Mr. SPOON ER compl a in e d t h a t a distinct answer hid not been given to the queetien raked by the hon. member for S'ockport (Mr. Heald.) Lord 1). S tUART did not know whether the bill would or would not increase taxation. The right hon. genth man the Cheapener of the Exchequer had certainly said that it wouhttlearesse it. Whether it would be in the gross a 'remission of taxation or not, it would be a great resimitim to the poor people, and he (Lord 8. Stuart) hailed the snetenne as a step in the right direction. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman THOMPSON - expressed himself unfavour able to the emending stele of taxation, as propooed by cer tain pares of the bill. Mr. MULLINOS said the bill was in a very imperfect state, and be particularly directed attention to its 24th and 26th clauses, so containing matter which had hitherto escaped observatinn during the debate. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that if the hon. gentleman would propose amendments embodying his opinions, If agreed to by the house, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would readily add them to the bill. A , ter a few words from Mr. Serinans and Mr. HUDSON, the latter hon. gentlemen suggesting a postponement of the bill tor a weak, Clause I was agreed to. On clause 2 being proposed, Mr. SADLEIR asked whether deeds executed before the passing of the act, but not stamped, would be subject to the out or new duties? A eonveysneer of considerable practice told him it wag a matter of great doubt, end if so, he (Mr. Bsdleir) thought the doubt o ug ht to be cleared up. The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said that he had no doubt that they would be subject to the old duties. Clause agreed to, as were also clauses 3 and 4. On clause 6, The ATTORNEYGENERAL stated, in reply to a question frees Mr. Walpole, that all sums due to the crown, la respect of stamp duties on cony. yances, &c., became debts due to the crown, and no sufficient title could be given while any duties remained so owing. Mr. WALPOLE observed, that cues might occur of per sons desiring to purchase estates without knowing that any sums were due to the crown for stamp duty. The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said the operation of the claw. would be to protect thou who paid the money. It was, .f course', immaterial to the crown who paid the mune y, the attorney or the purckseer. The clause was then agreed to. Oa clause 6, Mr. BADLEIR salted why the penalty was increased ? Tn• ATTORNEY GENERAL, in proof of the evil of the rxi.ting system of a small penalty, iostaoced a case of a gentleman having purchased an estate, and when the time came for c .nveying it it was found that the original deed had nut been stamped ; that the stamp duty would have been 1,0001, and the penalty being only 61, it followed that he had had the use of that money all the time. (Laughter.) Clews agreed to. Cial4l , o 7 was agreed to with some verbal amendment's, moved 'oy Mr. Alderman Tfitutesox. On clause 8, which authorised retailers of stamps to make an additional chorea on them by way of profit, Mr. CARDWELL os j eted that it would leave the i ur. chaser entirely at the mercy of the retailer. Mr. GOULBURN said the effect of the elsuse would be to impue an additional tax noon the public. The A VTORNEYGENERAL explained that by the law, as it at p•esent stood, rationen were allowed to charge fir the parcrwent or paper en which the stamp was, except in t e ease of a receipt stamp, and it was proposed that they should he allowed also to charge for receipt stamps. Mr. 111331 E thought there ought to be acme limit to the additional charge. Tne SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the public would find a limit in competition. As the law at present stood, there was no profit on these stamp., and in small coontry towns it was impoesible to get them. It was clear they could not put a limit. ...... _ Mr. CARDWELL thought the expense of distrihu'ing stamps ',mot to be bane by the In:and Revenue Depart- Mint. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the object of the clause was to give accommodation to the punlic. It was not of the slightest oinstgoence to the revenue. Idr. 111.; ME said government ought to allow a sufficient disevunt to the retailers, and if the Chancell.,r of the Exche quer would not withdraw the clause he would more that it be afro• k out. The clause was then struck :mt. Clam 9 wu agreed to. Oa cltac• 10. Mr. SADLEIR said he unders'ood the Chancellor of the Exchrquer to state that he did not wish to impais a stamp on any transaction which was rxecopt at present. If th.t was his intention be begged him to say so; and if the right hon. centlemsn dared it was his intention to impose stamp upon writings and ins•ruments that were now ex-nlpt, he begged him to state what tho.e in,trumenta were. The CHANCELLOR nt the EXCHEQUER eru under• stood to deny that tie h■d ever shad Po, and that what he aid state was, that when they were going through the sche dules he woutl point them out. Tne class ass then agreed to, after which the committee proceeded with the scheoules. SCHEDULE A. Mr. MULLING:4 p — roposed; amendment. By the present act a stamp of 21 6d. i. imposed on all agreement', hut it they contain ahove 1,0'30 word', a further stamp of imposed, and a lurther stamp of 355. tor every addi tional I.U•IU words. This seal • t,l duties was continued in the schedule ; and he propowt, as an amendment, that the prof/ ..... ve duty on each I,OSU words be 2s. Gd., instead ut 351. Tne ATTORNEY GENERAL opprsed the amendment, on the ground that it would entail a considerable Ices 01 revenue. Mr. MULLINGS believed, on the contrary, it would lug• ly increase the revenue. Mr. 00U Lb CRN said he introduced an amendment into the stamp act subj,cting agreements to a stamp of 2.. 61, and the consequence was a considerable increase of a. venue. Ile could not say what the effect of this reduction might be; but by reducing the lower stamp to 2a. BJ., there bad been • eery large increase of revenue. (Hear, hear.) Atter • few words from Sir L. O'BittEm. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it would be better it the hon. gentleman (Hr. Mulling.) would allow his amendment to stand over for the pr, a. nt, as eo make had hi en given of it. Ile would not estimate off. band what loss of revenue it would occasion, ►ut he was told it would be considerable. He thought it was not too much to suit that he should have time to examine ite effect would be. sent occasion. He spoke as if there were before the house, that of the rich and that (" So then are."l But their endeavours shout patios to both. (Hear, hear.) He should amendment, If his boa. friend persisted, u would, In pressing it to a divbion. Mr. ROEBUCK said he aceceptrd it as a nt a certaiw amount of rt must he raised ; of the objects of the bill; otherwise it was one mischievous in the whole series of legislation hear.) Were it supported on any other pretecc , of wanting money, he would meet the whole face, and declare that there could be no more mode of taxing the people than this hill prop e .. e . hear) He accepted it only u a diroul nem sought to reduce it to its minimum. It tee hor advice, it would throw the bill out that instan , any other mode of raising revenue to th:s most interference with the adminiserati,n of never was so great a mischief done to justice, bonus to injustice, wrong, and every repsible free jury, as regarded the honest man in this oountry rived from this bill. (Hear, hear.) Mr. O. BANKES said this question had not • dire necessity, but out of a surplus —on . incident, no doubt—(hear, hear)—and the . they were to deal with that surplus rev , nue Ito this discussion. His first impression as to I gentleman's proposal was very differtnt to entertained. He had heard nothing of the principle, but something mu said about reiief elan, as applicable to the land. (Hear, heir. came to the questisn of an al valorem 'hay I time, but not for the last. It the hen. bet Willoughby) premed his amendment he would Mr. HUMS acknowledg.d that 'mous wet be considered in the present instance ; but it IN that they might obtain a greati r üby bet a duty of Is. iratead of 21. 641 (II at, hear.) mu very low people who saved mosey, sad ae l into clubs where they were subject to fret might avail themselves of the advantages offices. Toe Inuit of the amendment that two or three operations would sake only one took place at present, arid in t the revenue might Fe increased. Mr. HENLEY would vote for the amendment baronet pressed it to a division. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUes it was necissary to pay some regard to the up venue. He ha I already pretosed to redness ' 2s. Gd , the loss of which he estimated hoped the hogs, would n,t sanctio a ?minion would entail a still greater sacrifice of re vce.te. Mr. HENLEY sail the right hon. geolenar the question by confining it to 11. stamps, articY justified in doing. (Hear, bear ) It aff.czed f classes. (Hear, hear ) After a few words from Mr. al ULLIKOS. Mr. GOULBURN said there was eu.idere in dealing with the stamp laws; but, on the art di.p.wed to th t b. that, with regard to b..nus an. when the object was to afford relict, it was Letts duty that was too low than cue which w: (Hear, hear.) He was disposed to vote for the The committee then divided— For the amendment Against it (The aaaaa natant was received with loud The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE, state that, in consequent, of the decision just • the house, it is hot the battalion of her Map merit to proceed farther with this bill to n' tram the opposition.) I do not wish to h. .• • assenting to ray prapontion implied by that am anxious to guard against—but not kn ow effect cut of doon of this vote wAI b.., toou will involv.. a Actions lose of revenue, I must tonsider,beforo further proceeding wi• t the r: • . MERCANTILE MARINE ItIL, Mr. CARDWELL begg. d to mlt toe r , ,; man the President of the Board of Tra le Marine 8.11 would be taken on Friday Mr. LABOUCLIERE stated in rept) that ti Colonies Bill was fixed for Friday. Mr. CARDWELL—CouId you name a da think it lig. le it mar cruise on ? Mr. LABOUCHEREre ;lied is the n•ratir SECURITIES FOR ADVANCEMEN BILL. On the motion that this bi.l be read a sit ) - .1 Mr. STUART said be was really f •••ott motion that this bill be then read a •tc bill was one to facilitate the f pct.! caviled in the last asasioc, for toe sale of estates in Inland; it ricked the get in force, and purported to be a bill kr the' operation of the previous act. Itt the etc eveoine, in order that the house mig , t be of WOO information indispensable to to know whether sack a bill as the 1.1 peeper measure or not, h. (Mr. Stun three questions of the hon. sod fern. General for England, on which he w.,s ..b.. information. First, if any sale—and it ray had been effected under the existing act? (ll hen. and learned gentleman know? C.u. in ormation on the subject ? If her c,: ft- would. ( Rear, hear.) Sicetidly, hew in, been mule by the commissionen f. , r the cal estate*, whims ware at present in fore to orders sales had not been eifeted ? thew, putting his thrd question, he begged to say tr would hardly believe that this was a bill whirl enable penocs to parthme encumbered emu! awl subieinenUy to pay only half e purr whilst, as to toe renaming half, the purer sr under noiessonsl rasponsilaility for the paym near.) Was ever such an agreemeat tat s., (ilear, hear ) Theretore, before to ea r.torice •r.O to pass into law, and before they were c set it down in the statute buck w g land, that a man might, under sancta not the purl's* at any price they might ciloo:e sale to be elf.cted at, and then be , aly one-half, and farther, be nader n 3 p. rs. bitty for tho remaining half; he b.g..eu to question—Had the commissioners aprote:l, n ur proposed to them by any pinon t) yurd ander their orders on these terms Hear. proposed that the debate should b.: Low aro the view of its being resumed when tn.. bm. Information ss would enable it prot.crlj to Fr4e, disaimion on the second reading. He h.d justin:cion of this course, that act hat:ng gitu learned Iriend the Solicitor•Gentral for Et Mr. MULLINGS at first said he should prow his amend ment ; but alterwards, at the suggestion of Mr. Hurtle and others, withdrew 1 , , and the schedule was then agreed to. SCHEDULE D. ---- The CHANCELLOR of EXCHEQUER said he pre sumed the bon. gentleman (Mr. Mullings) would allow his amendments to this schedule to stand over in the same way. If the bon. g•ntleman would communicate to him his pr.,• pouts he would take them into consideration. The dull., in schedule 13 applied to bonds and mortgagee, which were put en the gime looting. Oa the first item, where the tonsi -1 deration wu under tOl., the pr. sect duty was one halt pie cent.: be proposed to reduce it to one.fourth. In lieu of .5.. he proposed 2a. 6d.; and in lieu of the n. it item of 101 , Itie proposed 6s. Mr. MULLINGS said that the highest amount of duty by the present wale was 251.; under the one proposed it would go up as high as 1,0001. The CHANCELOLR of the EXCHEQUER said if the two first items were agreed to, the question of an ad valorem duty might fairly be raised on tho third—where the sum a z• needed 1001., he proposed that for every 100/., or a frac. none! part tkercof, there should be an additional duty of 61. tab. n *Muse el this bill, notice that he ant these questions, the hon. and learned gantlets. geßted to hid to more for ?ruin.* VI authentic information. The hon. Cr.! Mr. GOULBURN disapproved of the application of the ad valorem principle in this cue; he only approved of it es applied to the raising of revenue. If that principle w. re adopted, they yawlt take care to begin the scale so low, that the higher duties might tint be oppressive. Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know why a poor nun, went tang to borrow 101 or 1001, should be made to pay a higher duty than the man who borrowed 1,0001. or 10,0001. (Hear, hear.) Surely the man who wanted to borrow a large sum was just se capable of contributing to the revenue as he who borrowed a smelt sum ; and the smell sum was just as im portant to the l►tter as the large *um to the former. (Hear, hear.) Mr. CiOULBURN said he had already stated, in an early pert of the evening, that the imposition of a heavy burden on large bands and securities would place rtstrictions oa the employment of capital in various ways in which it was at present employed meat advantageously for all classes. R^ did not ask that a smaller rats of duty should be placed on large sums than on small ones; but it the amount were ceavy, especially in the case of mortgages on factories or shops, the parties might be prevented trom obtaining such reduction of interest as they might otherwise secure. It was most desirable that the ad ra!arem duty should be fixed sudiciently low, so its not to oppress the h'gaer class of ' borrowers, while it gave considerable relief to the lower. (Rear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK agreed with the right hon. gentleman that the same rate ought to prevail from the bottom to the top of the scale, but could nut consent to the amount of the latter being made an argument against the ad ralarem prin ciple. had told him that night to give inch a Lottc, the exentustsnees, he thought it only retson, motion for adjournment should he agreed to. The SOLICIIOR-GENERAL se. and wr to address the home when Mr. cte:l k: General for ['viand) Zee rose, and hi. dot. g so laughter. The Solicitor•Oeseral for Eug.and way. Mr. HATCHELL said he was so persota: that he Salt bound to come forward, er n at tht poning any information whioh his hon. ano I the B.dicitor-Geuerel for England might be sh: hon. and learned member for Newark k. As the hohourable and 1 d start.mon E. questions to himself personally, he was c. rta:l that he had not bestowed upon him tho mitt which, during his short experieueo, he h. to be ex•en led to other members when it .4.1 , pit que.tions to them, in order that they e tak?st hy surprise. (Hear.) fie had nut recs.. ed and he had been surprised to discover that leaned friend the B.4loitbr-Geners: E-gl apprised of the gaestions, and that he (Mr, called upon !or explanation. (Cheers.) He . whether such cmaluct was ju4 toward. hins . .l. id a enemlxr of that house' t Crete. hen. and learned gentleman (Mr. Stu .r:1 h questions. First, he had asked how mr.ny sold under the commission? Had he had trot have stA:ed the number, but under the are really could nut say whether it was 5, 7. or .umed, however, that the hon. and lear..ed g. bionally read a newspaper—(laughter)—and th well es the Irish journal*, had given the inta: he r. quired. In reply to the second qm.iti number of ord. rs had been made, he begged to a circular which was sent to every met House of L,rds and the Home et C ord.rs had b:en regularly publifbel. third qui stion—whetber any one p men o►ered to buy 'Tan the term*, he wou4 ask i learned gen l..utan, who had chargal him h , with not having read the Ell, whether he h...] read it himself, seeing that he could ask such (Laughter.) As he (Mr. Hetchell) real tho Mined nething like what the hon. gentl.m' pounded. He did not know whalkr or and learned gentleman was ssti.fisd with these his questions, but he trusted that they wire II satisfactory to the house, and t►at when the h. n. gentleman again desired information Lom !Lis kind enouab to give notice. (Cheerio ) Mr. DISRAELI understood the right hon. gentleman Mr. Goulburn) to say that, if they adopted the ad raioron principle, they must take care the drat step was a small step, and he thought the prine'pl a sound one. hie H. WiLLOUGHBY said he thought the fleet step too high. Instead of 2s. dd. it ought to be Is.; and be would propose an amendment to that effect. the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished to state to the committee what the law was, and what it would be. At present, on a bond not exceeding 601. the duty was 20s. He proposed to reduce it to •do. 6d., and to carry that ad raloreta duty fairly up. (Hest, hear.) The present law, beginning with 20s. for every consideration under 601., went as high es 231. ter a sum of 20,0001. There it stopped; and whatever the amount borrowed might be, tile duly did not exceed 251.—whether it was 50,0001. or 600,0001., it was still 261. HMI the ad valorem principle Deemed to be quite lost sight of. Tne man borrowing a large sum was probably the richer man ; but this was a Circumstance into which the legislature could not enter. It might be just as impo•sible to the shopkeeper to borrow 6001. as foe a large East India house to borrow WO,OOO/. ; therefore it would be unjust to tax the former in a higher ratio than the latter. (Hear, hear.) There might be an objection to taxing any bond, mortgage, or war rant of attorney at all; but so long as such mat ters were subjects of taxeden, it seemed fair to carry out the principle of an ad valorem duty. (Hear, hear.) The reduction he proposed would be equivalent to a remis sion of 1,0001. of taxation ; and that was a very fair seduction to carry eu'. (Hear.) Mr. DISRAELI said they were now endeavouring, in cons•ructing a new system, to do it on a just basis. The Chsneelbir of the Exchequer had put forward the anomalies and motiqtreeities of the old system, as though the house was regionithle for them any =lre than himself, and as if refer taw t) them were any answer to the objections on the pre. Mr BTUARt rose amidst some iiiierrupt:oi He had given noti.•s of his questions in the •ar: night to the law i.tlicer of the crows who had hill, and be had not concriecd it possible ;lia, b. charge of it was uninformed on the sub4ie t questions related. lie had meant no iltro ui the hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. Ilaichell.' Mr. HUME said, seeing the anxiety of t►e I the sale of Irish encumbered estates culled of the ',regrew of the hill would not be delayed. Mr. M. O'CONNELL said by the first CI :use was provid.d that the whole of the rurelube be paid into the bank. The money borron.d the inount of the purchase. Sir .1 W.ILSH appealed to the st..lll4ur an, of genttenleit on the bench opposite, and i.iukters whether it was decent—whether crease of *i.ee higher amount of duty. He stated when he introduce d the bill, that he attended to proceed ea the ad retire' principle. That was • principle us to which the house, ii they chose, might amide against his. That was the principle that he had carried oat, but what he wished to state now genrall (Degauss it wee probable it miot remove some apprehr e nsio y e) wee the east ad the amide's. The great objection was takes that Were, had' beam in troduced which erected doubts of raising mosey for short loans on depceit of deeds and other securities. He had cruet them out altogether, ell objections on that ground had been remove. Objection was Mks. to the charge on mortgagee. Tibet had been redeced. The duty oat copyholds appeared to be of • higher amonat that that of freeholds ; that had toss reduced. The duty on sur reader and assignineat oilmen had teen reduced. Settle ments in pursuance of articles had been exempted. The re ductions would be move conveniently taken on the schedule, or on the bill as the matters arose in committee. Mr. OOULBURN wished to state the objections he felt to this bill. The right Me. gentleman had stated vary correctly that he had attempted to introduce into the pre sent bill • Rode of levying the stomp duties whisk had sever been in any previous bill—es , an tqu al per esistege on ell the transactions. That principle had never been adopted. The right hon. gentleman had brought himself into the difficulty, and if he proposed a graduated male of duty, he thought the graduated sale might be made with reference to the higher amount, rather than beginning at the lower amount. It appeared to him that the only manner in which they could give effect to a graduated scale would pro claim inconveniences. Take the question of mortgages. The right hon. gentleman had introduced this measure ender the belief that he was giving relief to what he supposed to be the suffering part of the community—the landed interest. In the present state of society the transactions of mortgage on land or other property were to a very large amount. Whoa they talked of 30.000 f., 40,000? , or 60.0001. lent on mortgage, they talked of mattes which were those of every day's occurrence, and which the expeti...nce of every day showed were constantly takieg place, and taking plasm by parties who were driven to the ace issity of mortgage, either by circumstances of personal distress, or with a view to the means raised by mortgage of laying the foundation of a fu ture fortune. Taking • mortgage of 60.0001, the duty, which was before 26L, would now some to 2.54:11. (Hoar, hear.) What would be the consequence of this? The ingenuity of man would devise some means of ob taining a loan of money without the dispense of • mortgage, and thus the revenue would be injured. If they passed this bill, they would induce every lender of money to obtale the greatest amount of interest that it was pomiole for him to get, and would gine him the power of maiataining it at such • high rata as to injure materially any trader who may have dealings with him. Hs would have the hours to believe that this bill would affect the interests of the whole trading coMmneity. To some extent, no doubt, right hon. gentleman had given as advantage to those she persons who borrowed money for short periods. However, if the made the duties so extremely heavy on those larger roam they would oblige those genies who were in the habit of borrowing to • large amount to resort to other m ides of getting money. He siocluded by °berretta that, in his opinion, these were matters of considerable importance, and were well worthy of considerati.in. . . . Mr. MULLINGS, in stating the objections which he took to this bill, said that he did not is. that it contained any provisions which would repeal any of the ' clauses of the act passed in the reign of George the Fourth which regulated the transfer of mortgages. He con sidered that the duties on such trusfers should be put is the same category as those to which this bill referred. If they rep.aled the stamp duty on leases for cite year, it was no I:nger nee .ssary with roped to conveyances. He did not me, in such cases, that tuts bill contained any provision for the production of deeds. The objections made by the right bon. gentleman who bad just sat down, u regarded mort gages, ware well worthy of oonsieration. He wished, however, that the right hon. gentleman had not confined his objections to that part of the mat ter wh'.ch related to mortgages on land only, but had extended it to mortgages on money, railway dtbentures, and a variety of mortgages. B inete and warrants Hof attorney, which were alto referred to by the right hon. gentleman, were now subjected to a very large duty. He concluded by remarking, that a reduction of the ramp duty in the matters to which he rePrred moult, instead of causing a decrease in the revenue of 300,0001., produce an increase to that amount. . . . Mr. ROUNDELL PALMER wished to ask whether, if this bill were passed, such societies as building mieties, in which large sums of money had been invested by various classes of society, would be exempted trots steno duties. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he was afraid that he we. out of order to making an ()bur -1 cation, but he thought that it would be better for them to go into committee. Several gentlemen had put questions to him, and be thought that it would be very inconvenient for him to isomer them just then. Mr. HUME said that h whited to know whether the prpor.iva of duty charged on large sums of money was greater than on small sums. Mr. HENLEY complained thlt th y were asked in the absence of all information on the subject to come to a decision on it. He thoutht that they should I.ot so !denly create an ad valorem scale of dutirs without any information before them to enable them to judge whether they were going to increase or to reduce the taxation by to doing. If the Cnan eellor of the Exchequer c 'emoted to forego for the present 300,00 W. of rev,nue, he ought to b.- able to show them whe ther by making such a remission he will get a larger or a smaller sum back. (Hear, hear.) Mr. SA DLEIR said that he could not conceive that any mousse was over submitted to this house which involved que-tione more difficult for consideration or csospri.ing pro voions which affected 90 many interest, throughout the kixr dim. He would ask the house t sconeider the circumstances under which they were now asked to burry into (vitamin , ' on this bill. They would well rereirmher the deelarati on of the right hes. gentleness the Chancellor of the Eachequer, that he was abut to propose an alteration in the duties which would operate em a gnat and substantial boon to the landed interest of the kingdom. That declaration was followed by a bill which was new, he war glad to say, a de tract abortion. That was a bill which proposed to anima the strop laws of this country. Terry had no laws which were sore unwise, or meterain in their effect, or produced man hardship and litigation. A motion was made in the year 1836, to introduce a scheme similar to th it which was embodied in the fleet bill to which he was allu ting, sad em. braced all sons of property. The whale scheme was obliged to be abandoned on ecconat of this lolls Acious attempt to tax everything p-asible. He complained that after so long a period an eff on should he m du to induce the' House of Consmens to adopt • similar principle, and that hoc gentlemen should be obliged to watch and see that the government did not introduce and carry such objectionable measures. Taking into account the mixed considerations of commerce, agriculture, and law, it was unfair of the go- venetian to ask men of bu'iness to come to any decision on the subject without furnishing them with come information as to what the effect of the bill would be. He wished to know how this bill proposed to deal with the large masses of deeds in this country, and what provision showed the amount of steam duty that should be imposed on a deed nudely stamped alter this bill should come into operation. He thought that, the right boa. gentlemen had stated that it was not proposed to impose any duty en any deed or writing which was' not at nresent Fable to duty. The right hon. gentleman should well know that there were no laws which were so systematically evaded as the stamp laws. In the first plate they dare not enforce them, because c mmerce and trade would be brought to a stand still thereby. He hoped that the house would be careful lotto infuse iuto this bill any of the obj.c.ionable principles to which he had alluded. It was true that the right hon. gentleman said that it was his intention to reduco the stamp duties on small transactions and to increase them on large transactions. But what was the right hon. gentleman's notion of • small and a large transaction / Ile regarded the suns of 1,0001. as a large transaci in, and subjected it to a high and increasing rate of duty. With reference to searches nothing could be more monstrously enormous than the stamp duties, and showed great want of consideration and pract.cal knowledge on the part of those who introduced this measure. With marl to the g e 1 principle he thought it exceed ingly unjust that pure personalty should hi charged with the same stamp duties as real proper y, and far this reason, that transfer in personalties occurred much more frequently than transfers of real property, and therefore the eapsse was much greater than it should be if the proportions were properly obeerved. Again, in matters of pure personalty, they had very heavy probate ar.d legacy duties, an additional argument against rendering it liable to the same camp duty as real property. He came now to the cue of re d eema bl e inanities, and be asked why were they to be charged a higher rate of stamp duty than mortgage transactions. A redeem able annuity was, I. fact, a mortgageatLcted by a tenant for life who, being anxious to raise money for improvements, could not adopt the usual plan of in mirage. It was, in fact, the tenant for life's mortgage, and he put it to the house whether in the present bill an opportunity should not be taken to put both on the bete, footing. An omission he also regretted in tee bill was, that no attempt was sada to set at rest those divesting doubts which the present state of the stamp duties created as to the rivhts of p denies. He un derstood that the intention of government in proposing the pre. sent bill was to 000 fer • boon upon the landed interest, and therefore he wished them to introduce a clause declaring every deed stamped before the passing of this bill to be duly and le gally stamped. He urged this upon the govern ment,becanse no man could contend that a piny who went to the expense of stamping • deed at all meditated felted. The meths who evaded the law were the great commercial interests who effected their transfen of 60,0001., so.m., and 100,0001. without the intervention of a stamp, and not the mast who inadvertently, or through a necessary ignorance, had ratified his transaction with an improper stamp. The homes then went into committee on the bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that, in rising to address the committee, ba merely wished to yam that he bad never expressed any reluctance to hear objets time on the bilL Whin asked, on • fanner evening, to postpone the bill, he bed refused to do so, not because he objected to disunion, bat because he cionrilired the oh jeettioas started meld be bog disposed of in committee. What his had eb4eesed to was that gentlemen should have asked kiwi questions white he was not t h en in a condition to answer. Now, with regard to a great number of Oen time which had bean raised, they referred to different classes of the bill, and different parts of the nhedules; sad he thought that the more consistent Mine would bs to answer those questions as they arose. At the present mousse ha would only trouble the house with three a foes genus/ eisservetione. It was nut true that in introdue:ng the mesons Pie had said that hr was introducing • bill fur the relief el all property, what he had said was that the altaseris world be a relief in 1411 trecieeti.ete of smell amount, otht tbst he provsed to indemnify himself by rais ing a larger anoint of duty on larger Instruments. Tint statement Bossed to have met with g 1 approval, and he had further stated that he proposed with the Fe -al usages and practice+ oi . - - upon its iitentioa, it this very lam Lur si twelve o'cli.ck). a measure which • l mu-: the greatest importance as as:sting t!.. - situ' hoped that miunten would tionsatt to • day when it might naive that ditc.is i importance &worsted. Mr. 411.48TE1C trusted that minittirl w •u! tLiug. tie pod that this bi.l, Nhi • 1 Lust in the series of seuars. brought would lod lio postponed for a bIII,IIC ols • Lord J. 1i11:4313LL hoped the, at . '4, would not employ such more ti io they ought to prunsmi with this bLI or not ' park Lord 01 ' ‘t I Peopl or t----------wo interns .-- int' t of the pr. null be t o oo d o bill d Ninon tab oi,ii he trusted t o o ' , l o° l Mt' r.i., th ot oor' th,t oar •o o ' fa ne of th e DIA MIK tin'. (Rear, wee !rt. 1)149 dila lord e thine in the lord ft ItAlChir,r,,, The ened. flint, ,zi secessity, se a l Toe boon tock his c , u l .nt, and prefer into it mischievous gOtI ustiee. Then pea 1a flagrant g pre P 'rood and par. four try, ii was de. deb. o ,io ~ oi , in arisen in I extraordinary bef ' question how the .; owl given rata roll ' th.. right hog. PT i ', that he oor g In ad reforest gaols if ant nous. our, r.) \.w they if it' t o r tin first o f tic inset (Sir IL read; d von for it. tucv as I matter to be ' act mod to Li t Mu segincirer with R otel ) I! the d uty c' o'l ,1 1, rho how p ot it !equent lose; hen. 1 ul inton ate to 1.11 t would b e i s ` ' i place where obis; this sanner tic 7' the b aft if the hon. the b i s WO C 11 rah said !hat amount of re- D oted N the d ut y to heard , 60. ( .(101. ha o.,ing 'position which ha be rai`' o Ta !than nateoWed ch he was not !epee :rad the whole Sir 'hots' oat !able difficulty 'g To, whole, be war unit, LO4 mortgages, tter to har t a Tb was too high. ltnit; e es.tnOnnut. sae I 11,:•,e .• .. 1(11 Lille ... 134- 25 Pi ! It en.) Tla Llt —I beg to spot t arrived at by day. festy . f govern. eh!. (Chee rs TM lar.dsrstcost as MON it vote—tam I 111 Nii. 4 what the Fritter ugh. 1 lEcw it s Like :inn to Si r ...ore. (Item., f. 51013 polls. .: t'l•n. etatlf. the h :Lc ilercant.e the hi of the Alstrtiith T t The I prahil ,ay when y)3 don, in tit stmt. ve. ( IRELAND Weal eine, I 1::::e, empo . : ..., near the yards .•; •i...e. The Land , ~ n of 01.0 afford I i ccem'oete: of the t a: trent.: Ait tour. i die•tii. Les conic, say :.r: or t:.• ~. it. i Astwon fi l L , lt' .L . -.. e them :f.f..14 woo 1 I L.,!.1 asked Lot ~.: 1 :J;:eitOr• Mali . :., . his co the ht helcau ~ . Ltd:Ls riishi '..; ~.: e.ee 307 the fl ...:i. , e h4e,l super( :t. !rlsn Ind perish periac -,1 , :,....a.h,rsi 0!,,,r w , .44 the a I=lll ilea., zrt,re tat the LA.-, le co tit ;r pow , t , Ayne the .4 Ireigh.l. rtha e ut.hry ; L :r ms-r wa :o b. other u..:. , Hear. fray 1.0 r. aril o:: the E : A' y .c praec.!: the be 55,, ,• upor. :3 14•Lig .r i•,ti to Li- beta Theo , 54... , 5•••1,3Z.tr 5 . t, L.:SC: as Mr Low— to 'say i:,.:-. r. , .p Asa- with t . Ilan - :.:3 IL., . m«:. to flits . h., .4 es: '.!...! r, 1.. - or ' 11, alto:.. J, w.th :us: .:.. .12.33 The day [ ll .4“. i., WI :Z.) ..y to ...a, ..n Lord 1 Sey no th Ls t n..:.. tended 'sand.tot, 1'...! the Q, t..acs a to ;..: Albert son 1a..... ...,,r. the rob er,...:., ,:i..:4 Gloom• .ee. -,....,=.-- M. Eel ;,.. ...d. tet , a lo,: . a that hr out on Coloni Alfred, NU f 7 , fti.l.::f Rehm' 0 e.i:.tro m...:. eurcimDi bee rog r. The ,r son aa Baskin A 4 Compel Cubits, the Cot the Boa The Council The Right I Board Lord Cello! of man ed welt the la Dave A. de Railway (4,12611 Ro!dowe' shire hag tedwayi tIAT The it repecemat y u the OWOI [,L,r, , cl ii''Llja :, , t ,: ll . : m. ' :4 l:l u i c :, ‘ l Lts , un43 ' I2 , t t h 1e a . .. 1 : : . h :, ~,i k ..,.., I . . . :1.1 .. . . i ti ‘ ' ,. . t ur :t7 ' ) ,,s .. . r a l : .:', . yi: , C ,ii. . k o . t hi. e t.. '. 41 ' , 1 :1' , : h .. le, ',l,'3..oy'Lt saei. :r. ,1.4; ~:. ..1" o l i , ,z i' k , G . ' oj.. t . r. l i t i bir. 4 4 4 ,, ‘°'' . '''‘'.:: . ::.?,: .. t i; in :: :" ..... '4''::'. - trti..: : tit. ' -::.:',5::.1..', 1 1 1 : I. . 1 41 ., : : rae t: . 1; .. :" Il i . - ittrO4tel hyp.thatica.f that ens. , • /la ao rea d y . *Picini rt a que.ti,: .. :. consist e d a bill, tt :.',-* Rtyner ~a had l'''' 8 .A., e not the L '`'' *hole o f se 'newel' ' member at all esrata his obit u• and team! B o nn ahe wouii ! 'en that , tat rrr i•W ;on to cup:mr- chputui IT:, pat `'l :::r co4rtee o l cn.r o e at :u Therer. he 0%11°50'1 , Cr ose-stan to *Lich l'..t wt. John Li . • tows , :!' tiro gt or i, hove* to hA,e ea soon at ou- brough ,' -• e hole d iru dee t *, *show ed 'eels: h.:: -, dAva at 6 th Itt o w o iisursorn t'ahn , led e! nwl,:as:,:um,‘::141):;;:l4s.: Gloc,.4l",eini,nno. I h".. ileed bete l wo , , snit: tint haw. vtoc " , • r hs''' Ice edam ~o .r.. , ..i k. _.. 5 : "11 (404 11.1 t si l'a, catty. .14:1/ 11. r,. .3 I nk A 1.0 *I.:, :: lim a a s ~..a wed, ay t h 1 1 el , ' 5. ' .:•., i• t, e t A i lielple oat, • t he ju 4 ' . 's Peep' • .ets of th door as ~, ...1 1:::, , :,. ,;1: 1 , 1 . 3 4.7 t ..._ ~.;:..... ::::