The Express. — London, England, 1850-07-19 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS —THITItiIDAT, JOLT 18. The Loan ClAecaLtas took hie ma at Are o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. TIM= RIADIWOO • —Str Hoary M. Wavuour's Estate; Bowes' Estate ; Earl of Cruses (or Sir John JAastone's) Estate ; British El PUßLlC eetrie Te RU leg raSlNph %surf PETITIONS PRESENTED. FACTOIIIIO Hatr..—By the Dube of RICIIIIOND imh fraz Oldham. la favour of as efficient ma boon bi ll. The of MANCHESTER. hem 869 inhabiteate of Manshoster, la favour of the bill is its present farm. Corm Cot ars 11 lox Btu.. —By Lord LYTTEL. TON, from the magistrates of Worcestershire, and Lord BROUGHAM, from Brist4,l3.aleybridge. sad other plams, fa favour of ibis bill. RAILWAYS ABANDONMENT BILL. A coalmines wee held with the Comatose is the tabled N their amendments to this bill, fir which see Commas' report. INSPECTION OF COAL MINES. On the abeam of the Earl of Cienzasi.a, the report of this hill was rend. THE LATE DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE. The Marquis of WINTMINIITIS, OS the put of her MG. sad the Marquis of NOSKANBT, Oa behalf of the rodeos of Cambridge , presented replies to the addresses of issdaboc. ow tib• death ache late Doke of C PAROCHIAL ASSESSMENTS. ambridge. Lord PORTMAN height op the report of the select committee as parochial assessesenta. The Earl of MALMESBURY thought the recommenda tione in the report would not have the effect of remedying the evil so mask complained of respecting the inequality of parochial asesesmosts. The report was thou received, BOARD OF GREEN CLOTH. Lord BROUGHAM haviai postponed to Tuesday next the motion of which he had given notice respecting the di plematiz services and salaries, The Marquis of WESTMINSTER, in reply to a quie tism, etateil that the vacancy at the Ward of Gress Cloth, oseasioned by the death of Sir T. Mumble, had been filled up three meathe dace, sad an Medias had taken place to miesequeam of that omit. ELECTIONS (IRELAND) BILL. On the mottos of the Earl of CAZUSLC, this bill was read a tbird time and pained. COUNTY COURTS EXTENSION BILL. Os the mottos of Lewd BILONOWI, this bill went through Oemmitheo. ALIENS ACT. Laid STANLEY wished to put a question to the sable Marquis of Lsosdowne, es to whether it was the intenUan of her Majesty's govensmeat to renew this act, the power seder which was to terminate at the aloes of the present sesame. He mast say that the power vested is the government: by the oat had never bon &Novi, inasmuch as it had never been used. The Marquis of LattsPowaa's reply did net reach the gellery. Their lordships theta adjoaracal at a quarter-put el: o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-TEICUDAT, JULY 18. The &mimics took the chair at 12 o'clook. The hoaae, at the morning &Miss, west owes sore lato apse the Mercantile Mariselllll, with the clauses of which it was ossorgod until 3 **dock, when the Char• Ras was ordered to report profuse, sad leave was gives to sit spat tido day at 12 o'elo;li. NEW MEMBER. The ATTORNEYoli4a&L(iii3.wally) took the oaths aad W eras it his re-election for the botmgh of De memet. TM hems Mistimed at 3 o'clock. TM how recemod at 6 o'eloek. PETITIONS PRESENTED. _ Jaws PARLIANEITLIIII OATS DILL. •••• By Major BERESFORD (IS), from parishes la Ewes ; Mr. DTIN CUF , from Oldham; Mr. PORTAL, from the cle Of the Rural Deanery of Ofiltam, and from Bishops Wal rgy tham ; Mr. SIMEON, Iron Shallieet ; Sir W. COI)RINO TON (2), tram pliers in Etat Gloutwatershire ; Mr. J. BAILEY.from Ihulth ; Sir R. H. INGLIS. ft , st the inhabi tants of the parish of Hunsiesore ; Kish Deightou, Yak dare; Button in Ashaeld, Natinghanishire ; rector, ell doting minister, and inha'tiiints of Sau'h Tid worth, Ramp ; miairer and ooneregation of St. Jeha's Episcopal Chapel, London-road, Southwark; paishicners of Cleobury Mortimer, Salop ; steer and churchwardens of Ardleigh, Earl; vicar ard altsr inhabitants of Ferring.with-Kinge tow. Suarez; vicar, churchwardens, and other inhabitants Of Wolford, Warwick; ministers and inhabitants of Mor ass, Sarney ; inhabitants of Sunbury, )(littlest:; inhabit ants of Smeetli, Kent; clergy and inhabitants of the town ship of Wnrksls y-eum-Grantley, Yvrkshire; president and fellows of Sion CaNege, London, against the admission of Jews to parliament. Post orrics —By flir R. H. INGLIS, hots the incum bent and parishioners of Lointwardiao, Herefordshire ; infa bitsats of Castiswellan, Diwnshire ; inhabitants of New. castle ; minister and people of Great Cressaigham, Norfolk. Sir W. MORI4ON , t ram Wesleyan Methodists of Port's down, Armagh; Mr. ADDERLEY (several), from places In Stafforslehire ; ti favour of the recent Poet-oSce rerila tions. By Sir T. ABDY, front Lyme Regis ; Lord NEW PORT, from Shinnal, Shropsbire ; Mr. J. BAILEY, from a pla-e in Brecknockshire ; Mr. CLAY, from the Hall Chao bet of Commerce ; in favour of rescinding the meat postal refutations. WATERFORD. WEXFORD, WICKLOW, AND DUB- co iiictirt. Sir W. VEESEllpostponeil hie motion to the petitiaas and pews in this me us tilWeehtesday ant REPEAL OF THE I:SION. Mr. F. O'CONNOR gave notice that on that day fort night he should move that the union between Great Britain and Inland he repealed. (Much laughter. ) RAILWAY ABANDONMENTS BILL. CONFERENCE. A conference, consisting of NIT Ltbooehere and several other members, was appointed to confer with the House of Lords on certain amendments sale by the House of Lnde on the RAilway Ab.n tonsure lhil. On the return of the confi nine, Idr. LABOUCHERE reported that the Howe of Ludo would agree to certain amendments of the House of Com bos' in clauses 8,9, and 11, but that they could not agree b other alterathns is then claims. The amendments were ordered t be printed, and taken into ena•ideratinn nn Mendip neat. ADDRESS OF CONDOLENCE TO HER MAJESTY. THE LATB DUKE OP CAMBRIDGE - --------. Lord M. HILL ui..l that he had the honour to wait upon her Majesty with the addriss of condolence from that house and had received her Majesty's commands to return to this hon. house the following answer . I have Desired with satisfutiss, an 4 as a gratifying proof of attachment to say person and family, your loyal and du ilul address pruentid to me on the lace which I have sustained by the death of ay beloved uncle the Duke of Cembridae." MONUMENT TO SIR R. PEEL. lend M. HILL said that he had the honour to present to her hickey the addreu of that hon. house with regard to the monument in memory of the late lamented Sir R. Peel, to which her Majesty had bun graciously pleased to return the following answer :—" I have received your ad dual, prajing that I would give directions to rib* a moot meal in the collegiete church of St. Pewee, Westminster, in insuory of the late Right Hoe. Bir Robert Peel, with en in scription eipm iv* of the pablie sense at so great and irre parable a kw, and informing me that you will make good the aspirants attending the same. I will give directions in ac cordance' with your sildrua," MESSAGE OF CONDOLENCE TO THE DUCHESS 0! CAMBRIDGE. Lord SEYMOUR said tial . , - 1764 - 141;en the bearer of the acreage of condole:co from that house to her Royal Highness the Madsen of Cambridge, her royal highness directed him to make the following reply: " I feel grateful for the War se wlikk you hare presented to me on behalf of the House of Commons on the oecasiou of tile loft of my excellent and revered huthead. I beg ycti to convey my heartfelt thanks for this elprissi,in of condolence, and to wore you that nothing as he more coneolatory to my pre sent feelings than the smorance that the character of my late husband has been duly appreciated." Dli ORCE BILLS. Bir DE L. EVANS moved the cossiderstion of petition of William ClappindoU (presented 27th June), for permis sion to prosecute Chipp.ndairs Divorce Bill in f pamperis. At patent so person could prosecute a divorce sedum As had from 2002 to 6,0001., which was tantamount ts a cam_ plate denial *Oinks to die poor. Mr. W. PATTEN moved, as an amendment, to refer the petition of WWiam Chippindall to the committee on divorce tills and the lodge-Advocate. Sir G. GREY said that improvements had been made of Ista years, bat as much yet remeked to be done, hoped Me government would be ready with soots measure next Maim of parliament. After a few words from Sir F. Youtonit the motion was withdraws and the amendment agreed M. TILE CORY POOR LAW UNION. Mr. RO.IRE presented a polities from Coals, stating that the antes had been very heavily taxed ; that the guardian applied to the poor law sounthelostrs, asking them to remit 2,e451., which bad b een mu d as a rate in aid, and the poor law commissiosers ttaitenb d to met it, but said it was noceseary to make appliettiou to the Lords of the Treatury, who refused to grant thie power, and the petitioners hoped the house would direct the sum of 2011. • year to he , refunded, to enable them to carry out the affairs of th e union till barna. The SPEAKER oheervel that it spp.and to him that aa the money waste be refumded out of the ezehequer,it weld sot be nfuedeA wititew a vote of the 4MSII. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER suggested the pestponemsat of the petition is order that it might be OM whether it came within the rules of the holm or not. Mr. ROCHE withdrew the petition. ANNUAL RETURNS OF EAST INDIAN FINANCES. Sir HENRY WILLOUOHBF, asked "the President of the Beard of Control, why the provisions of the Aet 3 aid 4. Mill. 4, 8.116, s. 116, requiring the production el the assail returns of the Ert latthan finances within the first flearteen sillies days of parliament alter May the first in melt Sir year, J . not somplied with." . 110BUOUSli read it was perfectly true that the met of parliament el late rears had not been strictly eon piled with, and he would satisfy the hor. baronet why that had not been the cue. The Indian ae• mounts con..iated of two brads; the Indian armants sad the borne nee,unts. As to the hone accounts they Were made up to the 30th of April, every year, and between the 30th of April and the 14 sitting days, it might, under the ecireetastances, be very difficult to have these accounts re pined is a & state tot promatatios to perliMent. The accounts, after they had hem prepared.lssd to be szamimed by the mart of (limiters, to bs audited by the avert el dial& tors, and this to be tesnerared to the Board of Garai. whisk had again.** audit thew sad agein te ink Gra them. 114 might essount tee the home 081101•1111 brag prupantod is soon as tee set doeseirbed. As to thou THYs rams* them was &labia( to pravestlras brag earlier; sad the al y name why they were rat earlier, woe Mai it had bees= wee ha asesrais shouldthe earatiss dame see ar= 4 l. hod bra delayed to present the seer. Oa Mora. Into the veldts% he did not me the neeemity_ far both lllllllollllo befog passested at the Ml* time. The tram why the Tails messate were delayed was that they were the raps% sessnate. Ito did set i.e the se moray of prorating both ammente ou the sera day, and should take ears that the bras alsowsle &said be pre sented at the earliest possible period. Mr. HUME Mated that last rails this heals had or dered metals relates from tails reigestialightkousse. He had delayed =Waft for a marmillat - to Mks these into sot sidoratios. Ho asked whether *INS Mans were likely to be produced braes the house adjeanail. Sir J. HOBHOUSE said that the greatest difficulty had mime in • the despatches. Om penes hid been eta sows wreaths, lad It would take him sray day till rat Easter to maks out the first half of the Mars. PROVISION FOR THE DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE 'AND THE PRINCESS MARY. Lord J. RUSSELL (all the members standing with their haw off) appeared at the bar, and brought up the following message from bee Majesty:—" V.A. Her Majesty being de. sirens, in sammeence al the decease of her royal noel", the late Doke at Cambridge, that some provision should be wads for the honourable support of her Zoyal Higbee,' the Princess Mary of Cambridge and the Dube of Cambridot, recommends Um subject to the ansidaradea of the house, sad relies epos the attachment of the ham to adopt such measures as may be suitable to the arailan." Lord J. RUSSELL gam aides that her Majesty's most gracious memage be takes into essekimatisa to-morrow. ENGLISH AND IRISH UNIVERSITLES.— A DI OU RN ED DEBATE._ _ Mr. R. PALlliiipeemird tiattlatlsgal stens of every university was that of a public corporatism, while the sepa rate colleges were prints corporations ffift the purpose of ideation and charity. He went into • IMISSISIA history of pest visitation and attempts at visitation of the anima tin by the crown, and showed that the quad= of the legal character of those corporations had been made the subject of Beal I.llldecision in the time of Charles 11., when they had beau dedwd lay corporations , not subject to gicededae deal weaning*, but liable only to be oontroffed by the eons pleas 'reiterate of the land. He argued that the Iseult* of a eimamissios, exempt under the authority of sea legislature, would iodine a conscientious resistance ea the part of the friends of the univenitiss. He ' next went into a history of the growth of the col leges. and the immanent diminution of the saint- dike, and while admitting that various alteration wen de livable (especially is regard to the establishment of new halls, upon a strictly economical bads), he contended that a onamtiston was annecemary, and that publics opinion was sufficient is produce all the requisite cheeps. He deoied that the college statutes (which tae described as slanged and liberal) by any means interfered with the introduction of modern scientific education, and he adveced to the fact that all the leading historian, geologists, and other luminaries of the age bad beta educated under the present system ot the niversitise. The statutes of the colleges, he said, were I always liberally interpreted by those who were entrusted with their execution, and all that w.s wanted was the means of giving bitter effect to the intention of these statutes. Con trasting the spontaneous reforms carried out by the colleges with the inefficient results of Crown visitation, he stated that the colleges liable to the latter were least advanced in accordnee with popular requirements. He concluded with a warm exprenion of coafidenee in the meadow of our nnivenity system. and with • rennonstranes against mine cowry interfeream with what aegees of eaperience had shown to w-rk so well. The hon. m.taher.e.ompaoied his area sent by some suggestions for impowarest. which he said the primp minister had ovedeeked. wad by a copious numeration of individuals prionninent in talent and ability, whose career had testified to the 'mellow' of the education provided in the nnimnities. Sir G. GREY divided the question raised by Mr. Palmer into two branches, the legality and lb. ezpeiliency of t►e intandead commission. As the legality of the coarse reeote.- - had been impugned before, sad be •- ►e would call t►e might impug n ed agam, attention of the house to the frequent instances in which euemissions of legate', had been is sued, and in which they were admitted to have been strictly legal sad consutatioual. In the ease of the commission of inquiry with regard to the corporations, Lord Brougham proved distinctly that the noting of It was justified by precedent, end ecuistout with constitutional law. H. mentioned a vast number of commissions which had been Issued of late years. In 1814 there was • commis don of 'equity into all the educational establishments of Ire land, maintained either in whole or in part out of the public funds. It was admitted that there was no power to sempl parties to answer the interrogatories addressed to then. Re (Sir 0. Grey) need not advert to the series of commissions Issued by the authority of the crown from 1826 to' 1936, first of all with regard to the Scotch mai- I 'males, and afterwards upon a wider scale. The powers vested in the commissioners were, indeed, disputed by some of the parties called before them ; but still the commissioners obi died most valuable information, which afterwards formed the basis of legislation. In the early part of 1530, under the government of the Duke of Wellington, a com mission was issued by the crown to inquire Into the state of the parochial benefices of Ireland and the mode of paying curates. In 1832 there was a commissios of inquiry, apply ing both to England and Ireland, with respect to the reve nue and patronage of the epistolist sees and collegiate churches. In the same year there was a commissicn to inquire into the state of the municipal corporations • and is 1835, to inquire into the state of the estab lished church of England and Wales with reference to the ecelesi astical revenues. In all these cues the same objection was urged of the illegality of the commission, and there was the same objection with regard to the obstacles which might be thrown in the way of the inquiry. The hon. and learned gentleman who had spoken last had drawn a dis tinction between universities and colleges, 'drafting that the crown had a right to inquire into a lay corporation mists lag under • charter from the crown. Mr. It. PALMER said he did not intend to dispute the abstract legality of the inquiry. Sir 0. GREY believed that if colleges existed by mu seription it was presumed that there was • charter originally from the crown. Therefore, the abstract question of legality was in favour of the course proposed. In 1817, in the cue of Dr. Bentley, who complained of a grievano, a Privy Council, which was attended by the highest authorities, declared that his Majesty had an undoubted right to visit the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. The facts of the ease would be found fully stated in the life of Dr. Bentley. His hon. and learned friend (Mr. R. Palmer) had stated what constituted the strongest ground for the course now pursued. He had state I that many important a'terations might, in hie opinion, be introduced into the universities. Amongst these was the for mation of a new clue of halls for a class of students who were now practically excluded, and the bon. and learned gentleman said that the deficiency was owing, not to a want of power, but to the want of an expression of public opinion on the subject. There could be no more effec tuid mode of infiaencing pubic opinion than the eppoint mint of • commission of inquiry composed of men who were ant hostile but friendly to the universities, and whose cha racter was • sufficient guarantee for their desire to secure to the youth of this country the benefits of university educa tion. The report of such a commission would tend to cor rect many of the errors and mistakes into which those fell who were possessed of no actual information, and would show to England the great advantages derivable from a university education, even under the present system. He should regard the inquiry as most inexpedient if he thought it likely to retard the improvements which were in progress, and which he, fa common with the hon. and learned gen tleman, was anxious to see carried further. Ho had himself too grateful • remembrance of the advantages which he had derived from his resi dence in one of those universities to speak slightingly of them, or to entertain any but friendly feelings towards those by whose tuition he had benefited. If his advantages were not so great as he could wish them to be, the kelt was rather his own than that of the University of Oxford, or of the system pursued there ; but he must say that, looking at the shortness of the period which young men spent at the naivenity before they took their degree, he greatly doubted the utility of extending the system unless they also extended the period. (Hear, hear.) Ile did not think that when he was at Oxford the university held out sufficient indssements to continued residence. (Hear, hear.) Re . ...assald not agree with his honourable and learned WNW that the estli of fellows precluded them from asking fhe em alteration MO* statutes. The right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Cambridge had appealed la him (Sir G. Grey) in the last debate whether, within his tetra experience, application had not been made by the au thorities of the university which he represented, for the mow of the crown to such an alteration of the startlee, as would adapt them to the altered circumstances of the times. Is that case, Una, the authorities were not precluded by • menu ofduty from inking for an alteration, and with the con currence of the crowa the alteration was actually made. But the right hon. gentleman would admit that there were statutes which could not be altered without the authority of parliament. His noble friend (Lord J. Russell) had stated on a former oessekra that he could not vote fur the motion, because it implied an accusation against the heads of the universities, and had intimated that on the resumption of the debate he should move the ad journment of the question. He (Sir 0 Grey) should now conclude by moving that the debate he adjourned until that day three =oaths. Mr. JOHN STUART appealed to Sir George Grey to withdraw that motion in order to give him an opportun ity of taking the seam of the house upon a motion of which he had given notice. Sir G. GREY assented to the temporary withdrawal of hie motion, ea the understanding that it was capable of being suhmonsutly renewed. Mr. STUART then went into an argument to show the illegslity of the proposed inquiry. Ile contended that no man majoying a rze:rty is common w i t h others had a right so give such I Uos in regard to that property as would give away the value of vas right of resistance to possessed by those others, aad that any fellow of • sh other fellows of which opposed this inquiry, would. by gi mp n g the Invitation of this commission, be be traying the rights of th ou other fellsue. He denied that there existed any analogy 118wes the inquiries cited as precedents by Sir Omega Grey and the proposed commission ; and he larlsod the difference between the admitted power of the grown, as visitor, to issue a commission for the purpose of settling collegiate disputes, and fa similar Judicial purposes, sad its F THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 19, 1850. dialed power of holdall a roots(mmmhahr of inquiry, goateed', that the elevated jadielal ef the former wes a very argument mama the ~hi thethisi meal parit= r ibelagese. lallmatig la =this diestalmon ellareeinthese, that as th a B o n sai , to mmobsi weghs the b reswillalf sensepas th: sthin uni a l iz i rr e mu te ads leaL So then flghl= 1 :: 11.81 dilea_Siolgont to the ▪ art maddiden Ms Ma Os lb• *pro ef ft the Pala immietlis et 1887, both as widows, at the oplasa ellhe mileuellillos m to the Ills malty of such eammkelogis swat r mom* of IM delme et these umlemelties to the mewese M Mole ef real laiwity. He ..seeded by . menthe - Nthat whim atm to her Metesty to Was a royal ethemholen tatiststry Ws Me state of the manses and managetheat of rtlp ulleios et halls of the two aaleersities of Oxford and Oadatoldge, oat being of handatioo, tended to a violation a the laws and son fannies of her kingdom, and of the eights and liberties of her lisiesth's mr_Vreto." lir. H. DRUMMOND _thought that the romposition and duties of tad. oesselealme *mead a more Important queues than the omenthelsa he He admitted that the universi ties had by . Melton Odom bolonie incapable of aerie' to the public all the advantages which they might expect ; bet the way to remedy this ova Ms either to open the existing balls to or holies and dlsesalen, or to great public money to erect new halls for those ohms; leaving the honours of the universities open to all. Abe • diatribe against foreign literature, and especially santhet the neologicel publications of Prussia, the study of shish he thought ought to be for bidden at college, he expensed • hope that spot " mood thoughts" this commission would be abandoned. Mr. E. SUNBURY thought that there was a straw feel throughout the country against supposed abuses at the reaiversittes, and that the report of such a commbsios as that would operate advantageously towards setting the proposed mind right urn the subjoct. He emaroverted Mr. Steam's argument of illegality, saying that, if valid, it would utterly preclude an inquiry into any institution whatever; and he added that the ignorance of the majority of fellows of colleges as to the admicioratith of their property would prevent their giving any information of the injurious nature apprehended by lir. Stuart. He believed, however, that the inquiry would be frankly and fairly met by the skiver sides, which he thought would be much heaeflted by the commissloa. Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE admitted the motives of the pianissimi were consistent with the profeedoas of the noble the4(J. Resell) sad friendly to the universities He could not believe that the noble lord would not be induced to re consider en opiates hastily iseseeteed, and, he believed, sou craved la an evil hour. In any case the appointment of each • emambelos must be • groat ova in itself, even though it might be an evil necessary in order to avert greater 'Tin. A aalvereity could not ;weeper amid strife. Peace wee sop gooey to its prosperity. Controversy of whatever nature it might be, was hostile to the attainment of be pur poses. (Hear, hear.) Tke proposed commission was opposed to what was dear to the bean of England—namely, the principle of local freedom, independence in local institutions. That was • principle, no doubt, which might be attended with evils, and which, is certain eases, might slacken the progress of referee; but it was (me t° which the people of this country owed mock of their c.peeity for self-government, and one which the United States of America recognised nest to ourselves. A eosamission, under any circumstances, must secesearily tend to impale that local freedom. Them, however, were general considerations, which ought to make the house use before lending a favourable ear to any pro potation of the present kind. - Bat he must come to closer quarters with this proposition. As regarded the universities, he contended that there was no uses at all for it. He did not deny that they might have • ease. The univenitiss had of late introduced changes of very great extent Into their course of study, and on the very day this blow was struck at them (April 2) Oxford gave her teal assent to bar new sta tute. That was a great change which must draw after it other great changes, and those ether changes must be not in the nal unity alone, but in the colleges. But those changes could not take place all at once. The exigencies arising oat of the change already made Gould not be met in a day. Some time must be allowed to elapse before even the exigencies Gould be discerned. and the colleges must be allowed a reesoaable time to adapt themselves to the changes, for there must be an increase of teen and a wider range of studies (Hoar, beer.) It was stated that in Oxford, under the pretest close and restrictive system they could not always get competent men to undertake the actual work of tuition in the university. A few figures would set this salvation at rest. There were in the ihfferent colleges and halls of Oxford 78 tutors in all, and these 78 tutors had taken 8:3 first and second dames and there were only six among the 78 who had not taken high uaiversity honours. (Hear, hear) Now, could any one pretend, after that, that the system of exclusions at Osford had prevented the ablest men from undertaking the' neeemary work ? (Hear, bear.) What were the other elle- ' gations ? Why, that the statutes of the cellegos prevented the iotroduc!ion of the new studies. lie met that with • denial. It wee • pure chimera, and had no fountlatieu whatever. Then it was stated that the statute, of the col leges were unalterable. He took it that it was very doubtful in point of law whether unalterable statutes existed in any college, or whether it was not in the power of the proper parties to procure their alteration. But, at any rate, before the unalterability of the statutes was pleaded, the fact ought to be ascertained. They had no right to come there and rate it as a matter of doubt, and then ask fur the interference of the state la a case where it might pos sibly be unnecessary. At any rate, the unalterable statutes, if they ex sled, did not extend to more than tire or six of the nilleges. (Hear, hear.) The question of the local restraints upon the election of fellowships needed not to be 'Amused by him at any length, buiuse the house could not take into its own hands an un limited jurisdiction to alter or remove those local restraints. It was a great mistake to suppose that local restraints werelaltogether injurious, and in point of feat those restraints were of a much lees stringent character than was generally supposed. He contended that under no circumstances had they a right to interfere is the manner now proposed. To interfere with the universities was a matter most serious, as all history proved. Bur, when they interfered, they must have • case resting on very broad and intelligible grounds, and then the only way by which they could proceed was by applying to parliament for powers to make the inquiry. The only way in which the could interfere war by an set of parliament. He freely told the noble lord that he did not oppose this commission became* of any fears he entertained of the immediate conse quences to result to the universities. As a precedent that might be acted upon in a very different spirit, he had • greet dread of the commission; but his main objection was foun led upon the unconstitutional character which appeared to him to attach to the proceeding. (Hear.) What was the nature of the inquiry proposed? It was a simple act of the executive. The noble lord had intimated his unwillingness to be advised by the Muse of Commons on the qucstios. He announced his intention on the 23rd of April to lone the commission, and he immediately intimated his opinion that, the government having decided, there was no occasion for any further discussion. Therefore, this interference, which bad not been attempted since 16811, was a miller which the noble lord had endeavoured to settle at his own table in his private room. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) lie (Mr. Gladstone) objected to that. The universities were bodies of the highest rank, dignity, and order in this kingdom, and what was done with regard to them must be done with the most scrupulous respect to their position and their pnjudices, and to the fond and fervent affection which the community entertained to yards them. (Cheers.) Had the noble lord con sidered that the issuing of such • commission as the one now proposed exposed the authority of the crown to great dis paragement? In what terms was the commission to run ? Was it to be • commission granting powers of any kind ? Was it to do what the municipal com mission did—to require all persons to assist the commissioners, to appear and to produce their docu ments ? The noble lord wanted to obtain a knowledge of all the internal transactions of the colleges; but there were oaths taken by the members of those foundations binding them not to reveal the internal transactions of their colleges. He (Mr. Gladstone) was afraid that many of them would feel themselves bound by these oaths as against the commission of the noble lord. He did not know that they would feel themselves so hound amiut an act of parliament. The Crown had no power to absolve or dispense. How, then, did the noble lord mean to release the fellows from the obligatloes of their oaths? Would he mourns a dispensing power ? Would he my it was done at the time of James 11., for that was his last precedent ? (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) His (Mr. Gladstone's) apprehensions on this sub• jeet were not chimerical ; they were historical, for the oath was very stringent in both colleges. Every man at Oxford who believed the commission to be injurious would be booed in his conscience not to give evidence ; and, though evidesee might be obtained from some who would pat a different construction on the commission, yet the oath would draw a dividing line between two paths. A die listable had boon drawn between the legality of an act and its being unconstitutional. lie did not can whether this act was in the abstract legal or not. This he ventured to; submit—that, if it was not illegal, it was un constitutioael In such • sense and degree that the house ought to eschew it as much as if it were absolutely ille gal. (Cheers.) The word " unconstitutional " was well defined in England. The power of the crown in regard to other bodies of the state was well understood. Where was the ground in history and law in AL commission ? ( Hear.) ' Precedents had been talked of. Did they rely ten ancient precedents? No man would tillage that the royal commis sions in the reigns of Mary and Elizabeth afforded any ground for the present proceeding. But more modern pre cedents were pleaded. The noble lord mentioned three, and the right hon. baronet, the Home Secretary,ry. had been en deavouring to: add to the number. He (Mr. Gladstone) alleged that there was not one of those precedents that in the slightest degree applied to this case, or that tame near to • Justification of this proceeding The noble lord quoted the use of the Scotch universities.. There had been an inquiry there by royal commission ; but what had that to do with the present matter? That was an inquiry in the itemise of the visitatorial power. He would assume its legality, and ask what was the composition of that coansimioa ? The heads of several of the universities un seated to it—the great bulk of the judges recog. aimed it. That oomminion in itself bore no resem blance to the commission of the noble lord. It wee the a, fishing, roving commission depending on eleemosynary evidences. It was • commiss ion armed with fall powers; it was moreover a legislative commission, to frame codes and statutes for the government of the scotch universities; and therefore it we. very different in composi tion, instruction and powers from the commission waswhihohe now proposed. (Hear.) Again, th e no bl e lord quoted the commissioncommissionof inquiry into the chin. ;but must have been driven hard when he made that quotation. That was an inquiry grounded upon an act of parliament, gad he asked for an act of parbament In this ease. The how would then Mow what LI wee proposed to japan late, wl • a . tho wa rZh ilml le Mom " ift eoulfi lin' etathlea sad " lase th* sad see that the *miry wee sillsetnel he he wpm. Ti N the prosedent of the noble lad was sot only _lesslevest: ft was eves hidiewous. ter that sommbeitta mmisledi all eases bearish as the of the unhook's...4 eneloded the charity that foal s Wear. (T haw ease Ike pre. cadent of the esslaisetleal r 1811. Is the Yes of that essamhoisa fe wee 511... ally admitted that there were rest Ames' le be Aisle* by the maturity of the state. Dirwease he lestesse e weld est be rearranged I except by the as ght*/ el the elate; and, that beteg so, he apprehended that the laillladea of that oomaisesee was in tended as a stoked homage and tribal* of respect to is dam& Hat woo that inquiry foxed by the stale spa the Aura P (Hear, boar.) There the elm* was a seassatfag party. He was dis reed le be se Mberel that If it mall Ds sheen that tie (harsh was a emmrsaing party to tie peepseed fa, be would admit eat seelssiestisal soniehelsa fitaisa a fair precedent. The saivineities, however, new asa sea sooting, but reside& parties, and therefore the church was a resistiag party to the propoesd inquiry. (Hier, hear) There was but one other modem 'remount quoted to which it was aseemary for him to allude, and that was the ease of loluiring into municipal corpora times. Ho should have theaglit it bad policy to support Gee bad cease, by referent to another. In that case there was a universal Widths{ dose municipal corporations, es a wholee bad bow representative bodies, and that by the lapse either they bed eased to be so. Without going late an examinant of the rights sad wrongs of that gantlets, it was enough to gay that then was oa the tae, of it a great abuse of trait, and a departure from the original intention and object. that at ones and of course established a principle widely different from the colleges, with respect to which everyboi admitted that, upon the whole, and to the best of th ability, they were trying to de their duty sad fulfilling t object for which they were instituted. (Hear, hear.) He must say, therefore, that there was not one of those prece dents worth a single straw. He next would ask what grougd was there in history , or law, for the exercise of this prerogative? It was absolutely useemary for those who advoceted it at least to show that ouch a power as they were about to exercise bad been ad mitted in practice. But he submitted that they had to tally failed to show the exercise of • power in any degree analogous to that now proposed. What was to be the limit ? There was not even a ray of doctrine laid down to justify this iaquiry respecting the college. He should like latch to be told into what might the grown inquire, and into what might it not. Fcr two long centuries this country was mimed la • struggle for eonstitutional liberty. At the beginning the Crown could do anything, at the end its power was defined. He 'eked them upon what principle scold it inquire into those colleges and do nothing else ? The hon. member for Maidstone, who sat behind him, had taken part the formation of • royal college, and he wi.hod to know if the noble lord could say that—he having heard divers reports about there not being enough of men maployed there in tuition—he must tend down commissioners to sosertain the fact ? He should be glad to know if the doctrine could reach St. Augnstine's or not. If not, then he could not perceive how it reached the uni versities. Oxford and Cambridge wore not the only taiversidite. There was London. And although Oxford and Cambridge wars not private corporations, they had close and missive relation with bodies existing under cor porations by act of parliament. There wu, for instance, precisely the same relation between Christ Church and Cambridge as then was between the London Uni venity and the colleges affiliated to it. The cases corresponded precisely. No one could be a member of the London University without toting • member of one of the colleges ciliated to it. And so also with Oxford. Then did their power extend to an in quiry into the colleges affiliated to the University of London : They were here dealing not only with clergymen of the established church, but also with Wnleyans and indepen- and those who had been described as Christians un- ' attached; also with the Roman catholic, of Ow >t, and with private colleges founded by gentlemen of other denominations, and he wished to know if they claimed the right of inquiring publicly into these colleges ? If their power did not extend to St. Augustine's and Oscot, or the London University, then he wished to know upon what principle they secluded them ? If it did extend to the college of Canterbury and the rest, then the House of Commons mast not allow those undefined doctrines of prc rogative to prevail. It was downright nonsense to say that because this was a mere inquiry therefore it was to be done. baloney might involve consequences the most pain ful and the most injurious to fame, character, and reputation ' —nay, to property, privilege, and substance. It they meant to say that their commission was to be passive, and only to receive evidence, he wished to knew might it not he ex tended to the private concerns of any ono amongst them ? Was it to be a commission acting on the authority from which it proceeded, or was it only a commission to take voluntary evidence of the private affairs of the noble lord, or any one else in that house ? If it were to be a private commission, let it not proceed (rem the crown; if it were to proceed on authority, let them know whence they derived th it authority, and what was its nature and extent. (Hear, hear.) He wished hon. members to separate from their minds the immediate object of the noble lord, and the propriety of the means by which he designed to attain that object. He asked them calmly to examine into the dangers that attended all nadeterunined and undefined commissions on the part of the crown, to compare them wi h the nature of the object in view, and then to say whether it would not be far wiser to join with him (Mr. Gladstone) to waive the execution of their intention, and to wait for the lights of experience to inform them if the colleges had done their duty, as it was admitted by the noble lord that the universities bad, and if they had failed in doing so, then, but not till then, to ask for full powers, to insist on a commission of inquiry which would bring the whole con before them, and supply them with all the materials and evi dence aeon which to base and justify their legislation. He must say that in his opinion the breath of freedom and habits of self-government were essential to the welfare of these institutions. Ile would even go so for as to say that a bad system of the manage ment of property, if it was bound up with habits that had prevailed for so many centuries, was better, whoa tikes with all its incidents, than the mat per( ct system they could procure by parlia mentary interference. A knowledge of science was • small part of the education conferred by those univenities. Taking their case as • eh de, he admitted that they had done b ss than they might have done. But in saying that, he only Omitted what might be said of every human institution. They might r? quire, as they pleased, that every professor ship should be tilled with men of the highest attainments. But they never could secure tome moral and social benetim, which they all desired, under a system of state coercion, or under any system that did not give perfect freed mm. If • :taunter, who of necessity was the creature of a politi cal majority at • given moment, was to institute en in quiry into the motives of these bequests, he thought every one inu,t feel that that was a great discouragement to elee mosynary bequests. Did they think it wise to give that discouragement? There had been times when it was wise to pies statutes of monsoon'', to prevent all the land getting into the hands of the church ; hut that was nut so uow. They were now a nation developing unexampled energies in the pursuits of trade and of mite rid wealth. Did not they think it was important—did not they Mink it was good policy—did not they think it was • comprehensive end far sighted policy to pursue a generous and liberal policy towards those who might be dispersed to rescue some portion of that wealth from that which was more material, and to devote it to that which was intellectual t What were then foundations ? They were of the best and noblest almost that we could conceise. Hot take them at the average, take them at the worst—were they otherwise than beneficial to the country ? Did not they rely on them in • very great degree—amid the slick of ruder elements—to maintain and represent the nobler purAuite of the nation ? Was not religion, was not civelisition, was not real learning—the real education and development of men—dependent in a gerat degree on benefactions of that kind ? It was their 'happiness to have had them hanged down from their forefathers; they had withstood the temptation of delivering them up to the hand ef the destroyer. And not only should they devote this wealth to the higher pur poses; they should not only do it as regarded civilisation, but they should do it as belonging to a nation who wished that civilisation should not be the exclusive property of the higher classes, but that it should find its way down to the lower classes. For this was emphatically true, that these foundations were at this mo- ' ment, and had ever been the patrimony of the poor. If they looked to the history of the reformed church of England, they would find that an immense proportion of these learned men had come from the humbler classes. If their universities had a fault, it was tint they were too math the universities of the higher clause. They wanted tofu a larger number of the lower classes then, which they might encourage, for the noble lord had large means In his heads, by judiosus communication with the universities. la the course be was now punning, he (Mr. Gladstone) feared he had no prospect, because his in terference as now attempted by him would, on principle, be resisted. He (Mr. Gladstone) said the universities had not deserved that at their hands. On the whole, whatever this might say against them, the uni varsities had borne a great and conspicuous part in the history of England ; end no man would understand the history of England without knowing the history of the universities. The hon. gentleman the member fur Buckinghamshire had refund to them in his works as • school of manners and of life. The universities were • larger school, and thin was not a feature in our national character, there was not a point in the character which had made England great among the nations of the world, which was not strongly end plainly traceable to the in stitution of the univenities ; for during hundreds of years they had been intimately associated with everything that was connected with the history of the country. 11. did not think that even now they had fallen under the requirements of the age. At least he thought that, under a competition which he rejoiced to use increas ing, they would do their but to answer the demand which the country was making on them. lie thought of all places that ought to complain of the university, the House of ast. uC C om m ons be mathematical athat w i th i t i r e e nt regard tres t o ,n W oc sci e ntific ita b e ateht e n a t v t i etlrcc Oxfordus u ba m ig ht Cam b ridge be i n g g o , In aid h t how e ver " a w e o e h t v h g r h e ic i i nt r t t inm h i‘ e gi c hh l et aisica by Germany, this at least was true, that the uni unities had done their duty as schools for their statesmen. At no period Could they find that in that assembly its great men had not been educated in the universities. Nu doubt they had brilliant exception', as In the prime minister of the present day. A monopoly they did not wish to see, but he could not refint on the distinguished men who sat on the ministerial aide of the house and on the treasury bench without feeling that the adrosates of the valressities had coo reason to blush—at isear in Hems of Commons. A n d U that were so, sash mile in Ite say it when he looked on his own (the oppo sides) aids if the house, and whey he recollected that the met diseinguished ef Oxford's eau was likewise the man who hmi Ms rampaged in that Mese es the mat da ft/plied mil mete prranfasarsy the man of the British lipase of Oomming. fik Hoban Peal. And often as they weal bays simenisa N hats% Lie loss, he for one felt that it win deeply to be hinented new, wham, he was persuaded, versi ty , at o peoleatlia ddeld Muhl bent been thrown over the uni ne time, he was the repusentative, and for Milli, even after palliest circumataness had dissolved 'he comedon, he eantimed tithe last to cherish a warm affec tion. He (sr. Gladstone) freely acquitted the noels lord of any intention of committing Wary upon the universities. He feared moonbeam that his acts must inflict such injury. Not denying the right of parliament to interfere when en adequate ease was shown, he did protest Realest this un ted stretch of power. He protested against it as ra ce gtelis ro to the liberty of she subject, and against the Maur of the crown, and he protested against it as being dangerous Is Its after smasequaces to the adversities of Rigialid."l4llit" their property. for it was not that they were thinking of but in respect to these libertieserhieh were absolutely essential to their health and well heir's. (Cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL said he felt very considerable diffi culty in arguing the question that a commission do issue on the part of the crown to inquire into time unharaitles; for if, es upon the former occasion, they said but little on any of the defeats of these universities, and merely confined themselves to a statement of improve. stints yet to be made—that these improvements might be facilitated by inquiry, and that even legislative aid might be neeemary for the peeping—they were then met by the right hon. gentleman who had jut sat down with a statement that there was hardly a ease for • commission, sad that there ought to be none but the gravest reasons to Indies the MIMI to issue a ;oommission. But if he should point out mere in detail the defects that at present existed, and the improvements that might be made, then they ebbeld be met by the latter part of the right hoe. gentieman's speech, in which he denounced the Moisten of the crown, as if they were not going te aid and assist and improve, but utterly to subvert these institutions, and to deprive the universities of their existence. The right hon. gentleman in the latter part of his speech went to an mem, in protesting against their (the government's) in tentions, which was hardly required by anything he had heard from any minister of the crown. They might readily admit that these universities had been most useful ; that the endowments were:most properly applied ; that the educa tion of statesmen had been promoted; that the general learning of the country had been advanced by these Matta Mee ; and when they had made these admissions they were not a bit nearer the right hon. gentleman's conclusion, that there ought to be no further inquiry on the subject. The right hon. gentleman, going beyond— he thought far beyond, the temperate speech of the hon. and learned gentleman who opened this debate would have them think that there could sot be on the part of the crown any inquiry hereafter, except into cases of great grayity, about which inquiry might be absolutely necessary and inevitable. Now, to admit such a ceneluion would be to admit that from 1816 to the present time they had been going in en tirely a wrong course; that various ministers of the crown had abused its powers, and had interfered with the laws and with the liberty of the subject. The tight hon. gentleman, in an early part of his speech, told them that the colleges at Oxford among their statutes bad foundations at • time when they opinions of Wickliffe were gaining ground, thou opinions which afterwards led to the reformation ; and he said that the founders of these colleges inserted in their statutes most strict and severe rules against any interference, from which the right hon. gentleman drew the moral that we ought to carefully guard against ill considered scheme, of reform. Why he was hardly prepared to admit with the right hon. gentleman that the opinions of Wickliffe and the beginning of the reformation were ill-considered schemes of reform. (Hear, hear.) He was not prepared te admit that the reformation at the time of Henry the Eighth and of Eliza beth was merely the ill-considered scheme of reform of the innovators of that day. But he did see in those severe and strict statutes another reason for interference, namely, that those who in those times made those severe and strict statutes made a greet mistske ' in the ity and the strictness with which they fenced the foundations that they were then making ; because by that very strictness, by that attempt to prevent all claim, they did but attempt to make the claim more entire and subversive than it would otherwise have bees. Among the foundations which the right hon. gentleman said ought not to be inter fered with were many of those foundations in which they made provision for the due performance of the Roman catholic worship, and if any one had the right to claim that thou foundations should not be interfered with it was the Roman cathofics, and not them. (Hear, hear.) But there were parallel cues with which the right hon. gentleman endeavoured with great inge nuity, but as he (Lord John Russell) thought with labour in vain to contend. The right hon. gentleman could not deny that there had been inquiries first on the basis of Irish education, inquiries into the universities of Scotland, a royal commission to inquire into the state of the Irish chur under the Duke of Wellington's government, a commission to inquire into ecclesiastical claims in 1832, an inquiry into municipal corporations in 1834 and 1831, an inquiry lestly , into the state of several bishoprics of England and Wain, and which was likewise an inquiry into the state of cathedral chapters. Why, the right hon. gentleman could not pretend I that none of these cases were applicable. He could only meet them by saying, and it was an unfounded assumption both by him and the hon. member for Newark, that what government in fact proposed was not a commission of in quiry, but a commission in the nature of inquiry and of re medy, which was not only to ascertain facts, but to deal with the evil which they found, and to carry into effect the men sores which they proposed. Now, he (Lord J. 'Lentil) ad mitted at Collet that such an inquiry into the universities of Eagland would not only be unadvisable, but illegal. But it was by confusing the two, and by always coupling with the inquiry, that they proposed, terms that were not applicable to it, that the right honourable gentleman endeavoured te make out his case. Let them take any of these cuts—the inquiry into muni nip it corporations, for instance. The right hen. gentleman said that was not a case in point; but the inquiry was whether these corporaeiJns had answered their purpose, and whether their constitution might not be restored or im proved. It did not appear to him that that ground could have been very strictly adhered ta. Many of these corpora tions were no other, with respect to laws and regulations, than they had been at the time of their foune.ation. And it should be observed, with regard to the universities, what the right hon. gentleman seemed to have altogether omitted, that they were net private foundations of establishments—(bear, hear)—but that the well being of the country depended in • great de grog on the manner in which they wets conducted—that they bad certain authorities and privileges with regard to th, church, law, and medicine, which made it as much the interest of the nation to see that they were properly con ducted, as it was to know that the municipal corporations arswer.d the purpose of their institution. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman said the church was a consenting party to the inquiry into the episcopal and cathedral reed nues. N i doubt some of the bishops and dignitaries were so; but if the cathedral chapters had been asked whether they wished for an inquiry as to how their revenues might be applied fur the benefit of the church, and in a very dol. rent manner to what they had considered advisable, instead of being consenting parties there would have been at least as much dissent among them as had lately been manifested by the universities. These two eases alone furnished sufficient precedent for this purpose, and they came in the train of a long series of precedents of acts of the crown in conformity with the spirit of the times; by which, while endeavouring to p all that was good in our institutions, it had been sought to steer tain of what improvements they were capable. (Hear, hear.) If they listened to the right hon. gentleman they would stop short in that career, and say that henceforth there should be no inquiry for the sake of improvement, that not • single commission should be issued till some grosscase of abuse or mismangement MAL He enurely differed from that view. Let them make en inquiry when triere were some defects to be cured, some improvements to be effected—let them give the utmost posaible scope to all measures of repair and renovation, and then they would not have to make inquiry into cases of gross abase and mis management. (Hear, hear.) It was much better t s make such alterati.:ns and improvements as might prevent gross abmcs ' man to refuse inquiry until it was forced upon them by th ose abuses. (Hear, hear.) Against the pro- posed inquiry, the light hon. gentleman urged the objec:ions by the college authorities to interference with their statutes. Those objections were not very applicable to •commisaion of inquiry; if applicable at all, they were so to almost all in quiries that had been made. He would instance one of the last inquiries made by a commission—that into the law and practice of the occupation of land in Ireland. No one would say that there was any right or authority in the crown to direct what rent should be paid, what tenant•right should be preserved, and how the land should be cultivated ; yet the commission had gone into all these questions, and the two volumes, which were merely a digest of their inquiries, contained particulars of transactions between landlord and tenant, which were surely as sacred as the conduct of any public body in the kingdom entrusted with the education of the youth of the kinrom. (Hear, hear.) But the right hon. gentleman confounded two things—an inquiry for the sake of obtaining facts, and an inquiry for the purpose of adopting measures of remedy and alteration. He had spoken much of the liberty of the subject, and the hon. sod learned gentleman (Mr. Stuart) said the proposed constitu tion tended to a violation of the law and constitution, and of the rights and liberties of the subject. No such interference was at all involved in this question. It was all very well to say the measure had a tendency to a violation of the law. hut the hon. and learned gentleman knew the law a great deal too well to say that it was a violation of it. He might just as well say that there was a tendency in any thing legal to what was illegal. A cammiseon of inquiry was perfectly legal ; a commission to take away men's property was illegal; but there was a broad distinction between the two. The government pro posed to make lush inquiries as were made with respect to municipal corporations and ecclesiastical bodies; and if alterations were found necessary, it would then be considered what was the legal authority by whi such alterations could be made. The hon. and I d gentlemen (Mr. Stuart) had admitti d that improvements might be made, and were to be desired, and concurred in his (Lord J. Russell's) wish that a greater portion of the people could partake of the beaefits of a university education at Oxford or Cam bridge. If that were the ease, why should the hon. and learned gentleman insist on the adoption of certain measures having that object in view, and yet resist an inquiry in the first plain as to what changes were required W secure thatch. Prot, and how they could best be effected. • (Rear, hear.) To* hon. sad learned gentleman did not say the universities had reached that state of absolute* perfection that no alteration mild be made; he even contemplated that the intertwines of the crown might he certain cues, and was rather disposed to rehako:"...'2 ment for not adopting ieterfersues in foresees, ' ' h. ; - „..,'s he would not allow them to take the prelinn " aw " ... iwhich they might simertale how thou chan n eW -' best effected. He agreed with the go --, t o w b bat would not apse a s to tee t s ,., " f. l ) attaining it. No doubt the universities wer e - ; ; .,*". bodies; they were engaged in the adoptio in — . 4 . ' =tins l a th eir Lima of study ; but he w....n..,• - ,LIPn. eight be made more useful, and that eff."," k Lthell be extended to a far greater perd ue of the "`"fill la one respect, that of expense, he dos! ,',.." Weill, the tight honourable Member for she tie' ff.. ;: 15 ' Oxford had completely answered the "- "7 Peet charge, that a great deal of nerlitte g 0.... connected with education at that university 14 - , - , He bad never heard any one acnected with ta,..„ -- ,.' and having the charge of education deny t1ig...,4"." case; on the contrary, they referred tot heu e. t ~, to enforce regulations which they thought ncultlbe-ut they complained of the laxity or induleeec e e • p i , ms said that no college alterations which the %ie . ' would be sufficient to remedy th e evil. whom he bad consulted had never is the 1ee.n..1 tea, , i that there was an excess of expense by l t,, n ; . - universities, which was hurtful to diatip4:, ',,-;,°, (Hear, due Connie of study, and was exceedingly ,! .. jr .- 4 1 those young nun whose parents could au et,: to 0 debts they incurred. (Hea r , h ear.) i f this we ft j .. j ' . connected with the universal,' affirmia ie.; ~:, uosb:e to cartel the evil, was it not worth whet tea*. should be an inquiry, to see if they coull go , ~ ;;; ' hinds of the authorities, and enable them it t4 : treater cheek upon flan.* cap nue ? Mess, et., , the kind of education, he had not yet seen t h e re. which those studies which o f l ate years hew j 1, " into the course, both at O x f or d and C. t.,'' to be made to smalgainate with the °tn.; ; , : j "• of Use university, and how th e lectures • ;.ro'.ett; were well able to give instructions in those Sr , ; ct,,,:, f were to be attended, together with the teen 4 f .„. scribed. The right bon. gen tle man lid tr... r• :,.:' proposal would be w en in a few years ; ,... . 4,,, ; doubt that many persons connected With t e u: iv , would be able to point out, b e f ore a rig n ., ~,,, ~, i, hog improvements which they theraraes sr.. ot ~1„ carry into effect could b e made, su u in ft; thous new improvements with the lermer cou f study. His wish was that there iii•;:te:iors continue to &wish, that whets",. tit e dated of studies hitherto little fo:.•mtd re - el!..',e t combine with all those studies, the rtguld tz , l to. pursuit of which had distinguished thou t a t , ..., j times, and in l.ter times, and in that time, ...Q b. greatest ornaments of that house and of ...... -. v ~, (Hear, hear.) lie believed that thi s m i ght n. ~f t. cline; but if the house would not perm,: •ne ~, order an inquiry into those matters, they w,,,... ,;,, k.ep back the universities in that coarse of ire n. which they themselves were wiling to odor.. . it t , He could nut but see that all the institiri,n. o; t ... had of late years been undergoin g a change ; --;.. , instance, within the last 20 year", had not be. !: but had been strengthened by the changes t•,.; • made; and this had been effected, not by 1 • - change, hut by adoptin g those reform. ~f istedd to the time, and cal.ulate.l ... 4, church mere useful to the great body of tie ~. So it should be with all our institution, So it should be with our unleersities. We ••••, . ; like Chas foolish innovator who destroyed tt.... they were unable to improve ; but, seeing •t. vantages which existed, seeing the vast Cr. : 4.1. purpose of learning which hail been left •-• universal(' by our ancestors, we thou.; (-... make them conducive in the highest &gr.: • motion of religion, morality, and snun.l .c.rn strengthening them in every advantage teat c .... them, rev!, them more worthy of a.l the ...t they had beret .fore enjoyed. Mr. LAW reiterated the charge that th , • would be un-onstitutional, and declared, se .. • all the evidence taken under it would he t• 4. and that soy man giving such evidence ie., ,I liable for every word he might utter. Ile c ~ . unfortunat pad ion in which the univeri ie., an Albert (as Chancellor of Cambridge), woul.: • • ; conduct of Lord J. Russell in is-sucg a c "nen ••, both those institutions were heartLy and CA opposed. Sir R. INGLIS paid a high compliment t, and eloquence of Mr. Gladttone's speech, t• Lord John Russell bad done in justice. lie .: crown bad any right to issue the coerce creole toted by government. He gave his coreiel se; Stuart's amendment. After some words of explanation by Mr. Ii '.' ,'.... complained of having been misunderst., el, en .tr• ... by Sir R. H. Inglis, Mr. G. HAMILTON made a short sta:( tt• n: :1 c.: Lion of some details Mr. R. Palmer had give,:..: niece Dublin University. . Mr. HEYWOOD replied. He said ill : : •xi '• c ,equedin:alenfWotuntoolwdmseyar, citsin wi t. t h h elr re z gar uel? t fe t Eh o kl ect i: uth le di s tt ies hbee ti s c h . ;: . i. : ., ‘ • . ...., in tut, Wes made at different periods ; and h• - .•.. - c the inquiry which be proposed would, if area: .t. '• ,• tug beneficial to the country. Mr. STUART said that as Sir G. Geer had e•:• . : . ..! . . , his motion for the adjournment of the debate, he at .. repay ,that courtesy if he did not now withdraw his a:, ment. The amendment was then withdrawn. For the adjournment 1: I amendment, the illS T d h rr e e P °G t fi t. t e s .e l 'ti be IGREY ll th ir adjou r ned sa i did d e i t . irdh e udteocl g i veht it h :t h. de b e fore e } I ty hoe.t ea; wou ld moonswi thdrawnln nowed, .: Against it OATH OF ABJURAtION (JE st S' : thcct In aiiitrO 7 tohir.lllc, Lml J RUSSELL said that he would t 'onday next. COURT OF CHANCERY (COUNTY PALA LANCASTER. BILL. This bill passed through committee. ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATE BIL Oa the motion that the house go into coin bill, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCISE: ' ' move that the committal of this b..: he I is% three months. (Cries of f• Oh, oh," and I r d T he o h l hl s h l' O o l o s e u r ß s t T e bt hte going ho° amendment na i i ie tythn e o n id : c : te in d m i— :;:co d ttif ul a tia, h, :;.:e t . he l. nentlemely f e u n ni st is ho h.d 7te in a th ag e ai h ns ope t th tt e , s t t h : in their bills immesliately, when he l o t• : chaos would occur in the house tat . • -- country. ( L aughter.) Clauses 1 to 4 were agreed to. Oa clause 5, which prop^sed the ; ley ••: 1•• r tration fee to the Incorporated Lea s of every attorney, being put, The CHANCELLOR of the EVld'. 1:,1 that 101. be struck out and Is. ud. Imre 1. After some discussion, in which Sir F. Theater. <r .1. Willoughby, the Attorney-Oenersl, and other 0, ••• oh" • 3 took part, The committee divided, when there sprezred— For the amendment of the Chencil:or of the Exchequer Against Mr. S. WORTLEY then moved that the lee is roo‘l to Se. instead cf is. The ATTORNEY•tiENERAL or.osea the antra !men:. He said that one of the great ohjeete of the Lig 7 in this hill was to create a semi.: for themselves. Mr. TURNER said that the Low Society had chat:a itselt with the duty of prosecuting all member' for ha.: con duct. and that threw upon the society a very heavy tepee Al for inquiries and prawn:ions. Ile supported the amend ment of Mr. Wer'llf. Lord it. GROSVENOR said he wu in correspon.fence wetwoithameetedantattoorntbleysesaitneoondroweyiestvek rY an e si x d tr e ao . rd T mary he A ti n t7t e ' n Y :h ti us ea i e ment ral Sir F. THESIGER denied that this was a j is on the part of the Ltw Sxtety to secure a revenue to thctnseleet. I ll tih ' w his eaL r w e t t uoucgtuisestiitioty:onifwrtas",:rtarwahutertteyherw.aihtitzigeilbttohoues‘eal hestitshehmeidttit,oo,T2.4o:?..,:.;.,i,mscre. the duty. The committee divided. For Mr Wortley's amendment c • Against The CHANCELLOR of the EXCLIE4I. :Era that the Chairmen rep uft progress. Mr. S. WORTLEY thought this course of pr:cx , ling inconsietent with the dignity of the nous% Mr. STAFFORD protests 1 spinet the conduct government in endeavouring to defeat the bill hy 4.411 wind, after they had been defeated three times to a •or standup fight. Lord J. RUSSELL said that when there WAS an to the crown there was only one division taken, '...t ease of a ill i was quite cometent to the goitein.• take • div h ision t on every stags p if they were oppeied principle of the hill. Lord It GROSVENOR appealed to the govcritine•:: to persist in their opposition, seeing that so also supporters of the bill had left the house wi Mite' , t' pectation of the present question being Mr. BASS said there were circumstances connee•ed• -h this bill which justified a somewhat unusual cepa.; . . 1 ; was notorious that many memben had voted for it not wish that it should piss. (Name.) Mr. WALI'OLE appealed to the government to 1. 1 .** the hill to par through committee, and to tako s .1s.:1 IC • 'on on the third reading. Mr. V. SMITH hoped that the hen. member ter .4: s hoed would persist in his motion. Mr. 1113 VT vindicated the course he had taken Mr. I'LL , MI`TRE designated the motion as t 0 .026 and dishonourable" on the part of its promoters. The committee divided on the question that the chairma n do leave the chair. Fofthe motion Against it The motion was consequently lust. sJ The remaining clauses of the bill were then ague i -o . the house resumed. CRUELTY TO ANIMALS (SCOTLAND) BILL. This bill pared through committee Fr , /OrMa. MILITIA I'AY DILL. This bill puled through committee. '7 ▪ it ot, e. My th 4 ti t h . Lilt te) s u 31,1 A 11, 4 *L.% t o; t 144 4, iill thl 4 , 4 In t . kik) 4.4 1 tat 74 t., It% a .V, A s 4441, to Pty the '•they rit ti :top tb 4 rnlt I ae tt ta.tt N,4 4 4 . wtry •ti •Y ;41. the wri j th 1 7., airy 4,54 ral ittt 1640. Mau 46ttut in pin tit *.b. ''.7 Wt 1 4%th 3 Tti tth: 61 7 0 .r)7e1,. .41 •int 4 veri .7 77 .• • 7:1 • ':•• •••• ..• •. ; ` .r, t 77.7 7 ! 77-