The Express. — London, England, 1850-07-30 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, JULY 30, 1850. . IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS —MONDAY, JOLT 20. The Mime met at balf-pact Mu o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. ROYAL ASSENT. The Mel meat wee gins by mmailetto te Me tallow la gm bili t h l;f Swim (Slothogi: LammerwfM hetedletka ; clot Prim cw ; illerim&liilLo m ead (111.- LH); d Owirseeetes Be. ( f); ban flo: Make: fendifolval Mtn Stud' • Chart of Meson tOwelLivieriehats. at ImeaMel; lierhient lea lasi per. Coon ge Mina rsy ern la Merwrened rehenew llownekat owlet, Neemernoact awl Chillie weenetweepem Weiertewhe Ant amalwelot Em Id ee enea warm); Mem Elemen web; owe =3:a Maw ; lkaw "l iref mews maelemehe sod teweemwest Galled bamewswat (Mee one Painiese Clung of Owed) i Ilsweenbe epos lyre “11160 (Alasidnat et Ales noi Sew AM); Oweemy sae Popin Om. light Qom ; - p Ci!emeird Awl Newlisem Tametee Mai; th OM th e me Owerra wed MOO iellery.wd te als: steer yea Seem eatheara Bowie ; Lanwebie Tarliblee 006. mem sal Tareglha Seed; MOM Mat Weemway of hied; Prearrelei, el ehrewsbery mad Omen Themes OWN ; Hisses% Maim Mate; RIM. TM Leeds Comosi•eilaws wen the Lied Cluneallor, tae left ondiate. and the Earl of Cadiele. HIGHWAY RATES. TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINU ANCE, CANTERBURY SETTLEMENT LANDS BILL. These bah severally passed through seenalmee, sad were reported to the house. BILLS OF EXCHANGE BILL. This ball was read a seemed time. MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN. The Margot, of LANSDOWNE read the following mare. ease from her Abbot,: Her Majesty beim Melrose that the home willed Marlb meal 1/911911 Amid be secured I. his Royal Highness Albert Edward, Priam of Wales, attar be shall ham attained the age of 18 man, dung the joist lives of her Majesty and his said Royal Michaele, room meads the Home of Lied. to concur ie eaabling her Majesty M vent and nettle the nese la each mama, and with Mick provokes% as will 'Steamily scompliek such wpm" The allele marquis gave nonce that be would non that her Majesty's ineemege be takes lato cemidaratioa tomorrow (this day). ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL. Os the et 34i06 of the Menisie of LANSDOWNE. Me order of the My Marge aka LA mu' ameadmenta to this bill was discharged. EMIGRANT SHIPS. 153•11 seavonatios kens/ takes Mae' between the Earl of HoDirrtmenaLL and Earl 01111 f Plipsedeg the Hemisphere =stes:ip, a maim was agreed to for ea address for the Cowskeicinere watt. The Leasehold Tenures of Lead Let (belied) Amerulment BOROUGHwee a Wed time sad Dewed. atter cwt. diecaDion. OURTS OF RECORD (IRELAND) BILL. We bill west threepth essamittee. The report was rs. Mind, sad the hill ordered to be mad a third time on Than► da cieir lordships thee adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MowDAT, JOLT 29. - ---- - THE CASE OP THE BARON DR ROTHSCHILD. ADMISSION OF JEWS TO PARLIAMENT. The debate on the motion for reading the order of the Soy der the adjourned debate on the qe. stion of the domed by the limo Lionel de Rothschild tole sworn on the Old TOO. IMMO OP 1M eatha required to be taken by members of the lames of COMMONS was given in yesterday's Express up to Mont half pest two, at which time Sir F. bldg., was Weis, Mr. Hu=e's amendmeat (upon Sir R. Tains% =Whiles), to the 'feet that the elated Member kre alb of London should be galled in and the stork directed is admiaister to him the oaths upon the Old Testament. WM oar report loft, the boa. and learned mamba ler daingdon went on to my that the oath of lareirOMO IMO lOW tained in the 3rd Jas. 1., and was to be applied to pspW re- Masnats. Bat it was not until thiadt Isms I. that oesnolien of parliament were required to take it. That nee contained the word,. " On the true faith of a Christian." Now he could find no 'titration made in the Ist of Elizabeth and 3rd of James down to the SOlik of Charles I l , nor say &tirades in that regarding the slabs of allegiance god supremacy, as it oily required sseem bee, of parliament, besides taking those oaths, is subscribe • eisebration against traasubatantiatioa. Thus, then, according to the Ist of Elizabeth and the 3rd of James the =thief alle giance and supremacy were to be token on the Holy Essays iWs on the true faith of • Christian. So matters remaiss4 until the let of William sad Mary, when an sheradon did take plate. That act repealed the 30th of Charles 11. so far as it concerned these oaths of allegiance and npremsey. It then provided a new form of oath oa the Holy Evan. plies ; but it enacted that evety person taking the substi tuted oaths in the manner and tom In which, under the 30th Charles 11., strobe= were required to take then, should be considered to have taken the oaths required by the legislature. Seder, then, that the 30th Charles 11. only referred to the existing oaths, which were three prescribed by the let Elizabeth and 3rd Jester, it clearly appeared that thou* oaths required to be taken by the let William and Miry were to be taken " on the Holy Evangelist.." Chap. 8 =stained the alteration of the oaths, but did not apply to members of parliament at all. The oaths te be taken by them, therefore, rested on the let William sad Mary, chap. 1, and not upon chap. 8. The law so remained until the 13th and 14th William 111., when the oath of abjuration was introduced, eontain , ng the words, " upon the true faith of • Christian," and that oath was re quired to be taken by menthe= of parliament with the oaths of allegiance and supr.sseny. From the 13th and 14th William 111. down to the let George 1., there was no substantial alteration in the form of the oath of allegiance. The oaths required to be taken were t' • oaths et allegiance and supremacy upon the holy evangelists, and the oath of abjuration, which could of 'curse be taken only in the Christian form. He now came to the 1 Geo. 1., whisk was tae act that contained the the= mks of a:lei/ism. sere wry, and abjuration, pretty much in the form in which they were now taken; the two first, indeed, entirely so, the alteration being confined to the third. The queetion the home was new called upon to decide was, whether the 1 G to. I. had introduced an entirely sew law on the subject. and whether—bseause it did not in terms pmeribe that the oaths of allegiance and supremacy were to he takes upon the holy evangelists, it did not virtually operate as • repeal of these acts which did enable • person pretends' himself at the table of that house to take the oaths on the Old Testament. That was the question they were celled on to decide. The oivbs of allegiance and supremacy were word for word, exesptieg the alteration of the King's name, the same m the oaths which were formed on .the let Will. & Mary, end which he issisted it was nieessary to take on the holy evangelism. It was mimed by kis opponents that the let Geo. I. repealed this expression in the previous sets, and enabled persons, so far as regarded ensiles°, and supremacy, to tome to that table and take dies, oaths in the Jewish font on the Old Testament. That wee the prepodthea contended for ow the other side. Now, the 161 seethe of the let Geo. I. txpressly required that the oath of abjuration =oath be taken by nimbus= par liament, together with the other oaths--tbear, haul — before they could take their soda. The oath of klagianoe contented those important words : " em the true faith of a Christian ;" and that being so, how scald it be opasidered that it was the object of the legislature to allow persons to take the =du at that table, not is the Christian form, but in the Jewish Item, or la any form which their Gum, their node= of religion, or anything binding on their mowed-gas might indoor the. to 'sleet ? (Hear, hem.) He maintained that the =elation of the legiiilatars was that the only Mai, bra I. which these oaths weld be taken sad admiaieored was the Christian form in which they bad beta taken from the earliest period, and not only not hair tared with by the let Geo. 1., but &sectioned and tiontianed by the legislimethreagh that act. If there was any doubt as to the legitimate sowstruetios of that set, he would my, and he believed ell lawyers would agree with him, that eersieseporweiew evositso was the beat iatarpreter. And what was the oeistampersasees exposition as gives by • high authority in that how ? Why that from the time of the Ice Ose. I. down to the prt&snt this in the first °cession of • paean presenting himself at that table and desiring to be swoon by any other mode than upon the gospels He ventured to assort that so siessably or authority I. the mats" send dung, the form of as oath, more especially of a preatiesery oath, which was required by an set of parlia ment, by the authority of the legislature itself. Great stria, had lss laid on the of of parliament mentioned In the =pert, the lot and Red Victoria. He maintained that the Island Pad Vie. had se bearing whatever on say ex. Wing law, mei sestelosi so Mressges of any existiag law. Ste tae aboardleion M white mils, would be drives who son toad= that IS might be sidetitsted fee the let Geo. 1., regattas the Ism of oath to be administered ow the prism menolon. If the argument were good far anything It nest be carried to its fullest =teat, sad mot sot be iamb to apply to this or that particular oath. That being se, low, he would ask, scald it be sari oast cientended than while the Ist Geo. I. required the oath of abjuration is be taken weft the other oaths, and that while that oath esstalaid the words " on the true faith of • disiesisa" a pewees would be =tided by the operatics of the LA sad Zed Vis , e 108 an berto teke the oath of abjuration W reel be the Jewish fens. His hos. d learned asrvisist used the ether day must go that length, or it was net valid. He (Sir F. Thesiger) contended en the other die, that the Ist A Pd Vie. being an affirmative itatute, could have no effect upon any esistiih law, much lee repeal say midis; law ; sad he sabsaittod that he had satiefee terily shown that the matter must be decided on the let Oeo. 1., which madeed uoaffeeted and unreosalrd by that declaratory act. Assenting then that Baron Rothschild was got prepared to take the oath of abjuration, wi th the words, " on the tree faith of a Christisa," he felt he was justified in also assuming that the house was not prepared to allow any one to take his =at in that house, unless a prof. sties Roman catholic, without biking the oath of allegiaace, supremacy, and abjuratioo. According to his view of the law therefore, it wee impossible the oaths could be adaithisthreeito Baron Rothschild in the form he proposed. He (Sir F. Thither) apprehended that he was sanctioned in that opinion by the course of promdine and the high authority of the noble lord opposite. Nay, men of the greatest Intelligence and Light= legal learning were deeply interested in this question sad very &ono= that the Jews should be adenintd to pediment, and it was certainly • presumption against this sudden mode of proceeding that none of thews men had ever dreamt of such a =um before. (Hear hear ) The Introductiin of • bill by the noble lord and Its reintroduction after he had heard the evideecie before the emusittete, showed in the strongest masa that he did not =adder there was any Mart oat to a seat is that how or that Jews could be ail. He mfa d that e as t an- opposed to him the oesthethem loth son mid, la the pretest hth. elthli le that booth mad e 1 to be seam. widest befog pospeartelakethe milestone, and impremasy, end abluestioo, .ad wi tiling than oaths in the hem etthish the tighten» provided, namely,* the Christiaithrs, asel set emordina to any wan has. (Monk) Laid J. HIIMIELL—The prissiele ea which I Ca to peened is thin: The sinters of Leaks have neat • geathemaa to this beset, sleeted by • Wk- city of times who have • vette to that eked's. They ban set sly ewe bat twin retuned him to this his.., eat I ay It le die to them—le is doe to the whale body el einem" of this Hefted Keehn that they sheath see that thiy amend have the fat dales to whisk they ala pretend, and that nothsag bat the 'nein Manske et law attend wee as to name the adminies to a seat in this louse; sad that to the mane, ao ded=e goka ileglat to gin every hdlity sheet of that wake* el the law, ead that whes that nth tin othillsethemM the law arise:, sad than oily, a w d o g = to mike* to the nimble *Lanni lie seat le ltho beam the Ws. sad 1 and pestle. oath. _I 4. h em bean obliged tepee this esiWed le Man rather hem she of amest that whisk k h sot la theft hither. that whisk is sot dearly prescribed by the., to aim lahronne tram the kagnage of hem gob el mats of which have been repealed, bet which so Woke ought by Inman to bfal se at this ow eosin. Now I will endeavour to ate, in the spirit in which lime stated, whether there an say of those acts of pulia- MOO that are is bieding as to oblige u to refuse beßaton Hothighlid the pewee to take the oath& is the hem lila be deis to this house Is the most Wale ea hie mensiesoc The boa. sad knead assitsmen has stated his belief that befogs the sth of Blinabeik then were oaths takes anion to amain to this Man I know so authority for seek aa amertien, and he my own pert, ciesovivinir myself bound by than acts Plittnett. I Mk* doubt the polity of than use; sad I *kik if we were 'an boned to p olity to the letter of these acts, we timid gad that all these somplioned oaths hove given as so additional security, bet have been rather liming to mesa& egoadem, to ponies the minds of theme who have to take skein, sad have neither gins any further ken*, for allegisan nee made may been provkioa be legislation in this lime. I, thanking. ineten of believing with the kn. and leaned believe that the whim .1 easiest leglentioa T2• ° : 1 1::• dissension agree Winn various dosses of Chris I no— P %at the assign whims of ear balalaika did set prescribe oaths es the emeles of takiag seats la this been. It Is of nine important, but set sneakily of pareaseaut inpatient, to see that we do set donate from the meat spirit of oar Inislaties. (Hear, hear.) Let it, thee, be easseded that there is an act of the frth of Elizabeth which preeeribee corporel oaths to be admi nistered to members of this house, and taken oa the holy evangelists. The set el 7 Janes I. likewise prescribes oor mal oaths to be takes ea the holy enagelists. Here the hon. ad leaned gestleman stops, and mays it Is quite clear that oaths were to be takes ea the holy measlier, that then were Christie& wattle, and that we are hosed to initiates the orb oaths sow takes at the table ought to M Obehthan teak air, I slop here. I find that s goate e= illy elated a member has proposed to take the oaths em amend hem, to • form mead to this home, bemuse that so Mine mamba bee over, that I ban ef, proposed to lehe the eras ta that llorm. There is as imlione. se pens ion of way masthee having bees refuted to take the oath in that dina. He WINS before us anis, that privilege, and Is k fte as to coseider, the demand bong unusual, how we are to manse this mots by which we are bound, and the eatoms and usages of 'erliegen. Well, thee, having no precedent as to tie ems p of this house, me tar as the refusal to allow the oaths to be taken on the Old Tolerant, I naturally go to the usages which are in courts of law, sad befogs I come to the distinction between the i promissory ad judicial nth', let as sea how they have interpreted this liana of taking the oaths on the holy evangelists, sad there I hid the very highest authority for the. saner In which then oaths are take.. I quite admit that if that at was is foxes at present, cioataining the week that the oaths should be taken on the holy list s, we might 'appose that the Hely Bible, the Old and New Teetaisest, was intended by these words. I find that the Lied Chasealler Hardwick* mays that if a Jew should be 'adieus& for perjury, and it were °kneed that the words is the oath were metro *metal Dei e wingeliNt, that that might be eatenind, and the indictment hold and, as the Old Teetemest was the roangeliwis of the Jews. Now, that is a eternal sewing from the very highest authority. When I find this, I say at one I do not think that the words contained to the sets of Elizabeth and James the Fast are is tact caselseive epos the subject. Bat honed this, I find two very remarkable earnestness I the one that in the at of George the First I do set find that in that which at present regulates our proceedings. and gives the iota to the osthe—l do not find that then are say similar directions. The hon. sad learned gentleman dwells, sad properly, upon the authority of those acts ; belt I submit that, if that act repeals former acts, and that if the acts of Elizabeth and Junes ars no longer to guide us, why teen we are not bound even by thole words the Holy Evan adieu —we are not bawd by siege—and I submit that there u no set at the prosiest moment which Durk us to consider these oaths as not to be administered on the Old Testament, mil prevents the administration of the oath to lowa. It is another and important consideration OM hem the Ist to the 13th of William 111. there is no nth that directly excludes the Jews from taking the oath st this table. It has been argued, and it may be rightly argued, but I am net entering into that question now, that the Jews were prevented by other statutes and by the law of the land from taking the oaths to sit in parliament; but the question is now, whether there was anythiag at that time which preened their sitting in parliament by the oaths. Now the words " is the true faith of • Christian" were not at that time in the proscribed form of oath, sad will any person contend that if any person had come here to take the oaths, supposing there had been no other objection. you could have stated thanks acts of Elinoeth end James I. were et bind ing urn you that without any other words you were bound to sic' u4a the Jew because he could only take the oaths oa the Old Testament. I main that you could not have so excluded him. We come then to consider what is the manner in which the oaths have been taken. The honourable and learned gentleman nye they have always been taken in • Christian form. But at the same time the honourable and learned gentleman contended that this was • matter of positive statute, and as I submit be failed t 3 make ant that by positive statute we were bound to administer the oaths is the form in which we usually ad minister them. He mid only show that it had been the custom according to ancient ace of parliament ; that it bad been the custom, I submit, because those who had presented thenselni at this table had bees always willing to take the oaths on the New Testament, and unless you can point cut some statute whicla prevents the oaths bel administered cm the Old Testament. I act not thiff that you ought to insist upon an objection which torus from your table a member who has been duly elected. The hon. and learned gentleman eaditavoured to answer the annum taken Inn the act of parliament very recently , which says that if perms& are sworn upon any on, on zi t s ai r ent to dike or employment, or upon any occasion , such person is bound by the oath adminis tered. Now I confess I do not think that that statute is completely concluive upon the subject. Bet at lent it does this: it secures you from one of the dangers of admitting an oath which Is not otherwise prescribed, and that if • person is guilty of perjury he would be subject to all the penalties which • person would be subject to taking the oaths according to the customary form. Well, then, what are the oaths which the member he the City of Load's would have to take? The bon. sad learned geatlemaa ocatends that these objections are of that nature that they form • conclusive objection la the first lastest* against his being sworn upon the Old Teat/amt. I owe that it appears to ms that you ought not to go so far as to pre dodo argument on this abject. It does appear to me. I will confess, that them acts to which the bon. midi beamed gentleman be. referred—sanely, the 9th 0... 1., sad the 13th Geo. II , that those words, giving exemption from the words " on the true faith of &Christian " is certain cease which are than waled ad prescribed— these words ewes to me to preclude this house from emit the weeds " ea the tea faith of • Christian." ( theirs.) Bat the question now is whether the member hit Leaks shoed be Minted to go es far as to be Mee M the Old TIMISMIIot, and to Mate, either by bimesYer hie oested. Mist with le Is reedy to take, sad is what seam he fo may to take them. Seen hove essissied, OM antemded very poweefeffiy. that am weeds " la the tom pith of a .OWIN are - only the maths, the *nth methes, of the nth, sod do sot M bslong to the oath lissiL ae, bear.) Now, sir, I think whatever may he the se that argument we ought not to be Lealedith (kma 71s eming it, ad that the hoe. member w Aegis It dwelt he at Abney to show it by arguneut and not left without Mto Mae it. My own opinion is that if it om Meted is the beginning of the oath " I sia a thithellos," oe " I mhos myself a Christian," It might ben bees imenthent with that oath that he fa the bet beam swear on the Old Testament. %What is set dier sea. The case is cue entirely &thereat. TM intesties el putting in those words, " unit the thee Ma obehths " was to gin a solemnity sad a tenths is the ma takes by one elms of Christiana, Bandy, the Hama sahebs, who might be inspected of ddeadleslles is the tom, and not to seclude the Jews. That Is • mishrio n 4 of the ergament. I have stated that I Mak th at it is not in the power of the home le with then words. When the queen mem to be dollined i a thethialy, with all the study that I brw shall ID the iptindso, shall fed myself compelled to nee agile than wads being omitted from the oath. (Op pothira thigen.) Bat I do not thiou e ambled to de ism that Berm iteessiikl shall ng not y be ar sworn in the form that heath= melt bYiag on his conacienoe. And, toot w es this as I hen stated, to be • matter for delitieratios, I think that you should allow a e who proposes to ha ve ns at the table of thia house we n atitude, in order to the moo hilly and amply stated. I think the le due to the dawn of the City of Looks. This each lease to the right of being a representative Is parliemes•-•seight, be It remembered, not fee this bomb M the isthielithal, hat a right for the benefit of lb. Whale iisuk of this nostry. Now I have stead that I would shale la a orm idiw ciad tkai el iad hat bma l have a ssy th et It my duty to peeled. It was said gay in this debate by ea hos. oballikit Oil it bad been declared this was no party I. affirmed that It win • party qa was the groat party qualm of the age, _Mee le wo g sh e question of prejudice against progress, of latehtesse god bigotry ageing this principle of eivil and Now I must sty I entirely dissent hol d er (Hear, hear, from the oppoeitioa.) If it were a quietism ef prijudise and progress, of. elvE sad eel *leis Lamy, I have I aillelibt 1 11111•11 rqw skews, OM. I ttobe ? _eilatinsd to a seatja tlils ties*, , that t art valil *km lOU. It, and 'Van Is nothing mane at of a deg Spin to protest th e ft . (Charm) shit which have to sessider is tin a Piety gaieties. is an a smesties. it Is a quays toir esebnd es laws es they sow stamille ahatt ams nn 411111ing Is seat. I feel ecovissal that It pera an of opi. by ales that lawfully the Bases eat alto his seat, rat ought all verse*, whatever panel essiogassees yea think ma fe ll ow , winnow yes may escsiga deem laugh= eheneter IN this ris teed Matti ts M it. Bat es the alter head U yes do on dna tbs. the law ambles Ina to Mks his sees seassisi to the seer that are sow is terse, se *pions that is lantavalas to the olive of*. Jews, wittiest a legislative meow% eight to beim yen to amass, wish the meal Ism of oath. I say eyes an to take my ether muse, U yea are late Meeks with the nuns of law, ea/ yes era apt j by the weed* of the este of poniuseat ups whisk ma are sada& nest mime evils sitht follow. But, sly, I should Set be afraid, if I was perked, orovissed that we Were la the sight—l shield set Ise afraid el monist with privilege say decides of a men of law. But then is a moans eveta s sd this. If yea are sot fully atavism& that yes an weeding to law, if yea propose M est 11011IWIling to nes, if ma masses to est beams it is la the preasetios of *loll sod religious liberty--you will be, is fast, onesisies that dines/as power, Wi atemin et whin by the norm Irmaght the people of this 'emery, Justly sad easefully, to asks the revolatnee. (Hear.) I skald be worry ja iled if this how, whisk has sow mach of the power that formerly belooged to the ,rows should attempt to trzersies any sash power. I was wry, Weed, to hear it predelmed is this Mae, that we "ask to treat the question otherwise than as a jadkdal gentian. I wee happy. as I stated at the tommememest, to dad that the and learned derma had treated it th Le a la maasor, sad, I arm, that IYroephoat the net ef the it will be so treated. (Hoar, Mar.) I have dated the results to which I have OWN upon the preens queens. I think the member clalang his seat, the Bares Enke- Mild ought to have his deemed complied with, that be should be allowed to swear in the Old Testament, sad that the house should non fairly and deliberately weigh every :lo:zithst cm be said m to his taking the cosh' ; bat, ao to my own opinion, I awn loam out aay put of these oaths without ths ranks of aa set of parliannat. (Chee A. Sir . INGLIS said, at the risk of (eluting his antis kited, he scald not fallow hiss without throttles bin for the navel courses sad predates of kis smock. He thanked him for both, bat if he were prepared to follow the prepaid tioa of his noble friend, be would sok him respectfully In what state would be plan BUM Reneshild when he came to the table. Ho ante hired esommil to ham forgotten that the inns the bin la his hand sad hilltop the book was sot the first act, bit the last an, of taking the oath, and that the boa. gewlemes the member for the sky of Loados nut be coosidered as binding himself to all the three oaths. He hod been told it was desirable to leave the how to decide spas the sensitive. His own wish would lead him to take the some of the house upon the swathe • bat if it was the wish of the house to take it upea the , affirmative, instead of the motive, be should ban no objectioo. G. GREY said there was a cosnainion to-day, which , would oblige the Speaker to take the Aar at a quarter to 6. , Ho moved that the house d s now adjoure. , Mr. DISRAELI asked when the Irish Franchise Bill would acme on ? _ _ _ . Lord 1. was understood to reply that that bill would be brought on au Thursday, thetimod of termorrow (Tuesday), when th is debate would hi resumed. Mr. MOORE said he sad many other Irish members had remained in tooth ow wpm. for the Irish Franchise Bill, and he wished to know when it was to some so. Mr. B. OSBORNE said he had an objection that this debate should be adjourned till tomorrow. He thought that this being a quietism of privilege, the debate ought to be withstood tonight; sad further, after the somewhat ex. unordinary speech of the noble lord, they who supported Skis measure were plead in a dilemma. Sir G. GREY—The question is that the debate be ad journed. When that is decided it will be for the house to decide to what time. . . . --- Mr. ANSTEY said he rose to give the noble lord au op portunity for ezplanatioa. The noble lard had stated very justly that this was a judicial question. He wished to ask the noble lord, before his unfortunate sad unadvised speech went forth to the country, whether they were to understand that, whatever might be the arguments which they, fa their places is parliament, might Waal, or whether they were urged by saunas' at the bar, that Berea Rothschild had a right to take his seat is that house tho noble lord would give his vote with those who hitherto, with much coons tansy, had opposed say concession to the Jews. Lord J. RUSSELL replied that he would only say that this question was, of course, not new to him, tor he was told lest gear as well se this year tket Baron kothechild sight demand to take his seat, and of eosins it became kid duty tooossaider the question very maturely. He did so con sider it both lud year and in the preens' year ; and last you he asked the then Attorney General, an d this year be bad asked the pressat Attorney-Ostend, and neither of them had been able to advise him to vote in favour of the oaths being taken with the omission of the words " on the true faith of a Christian." And he could not either bring his own mind to that conclusion. With these opinions and the best study he could give to the question, he had come to that result which he thought it his duty to tome to, and to slam to the house. However, it the hon. and learned gen tleman (Mr. Lasky) would bring forward arguments so convincing that he must give way, he would then own that he had been utterly wrong, and would follow the hen. and learned gentleman. (A hush.) Alter an observation from Mr. S. Hannant, which was inaudible in the gallery, Lord J. RUSSELL again rose and said, unless any other hon. member wished to address the house, they might now divide upon the main question. Mr. NEWDEOATE said Baron Rothschild had de manded to be heard by counsel with respect to the omis sion of the words. He asked the noble lord whether he would preclude the house (run going into that question. Lord J. RUSSELL replied that the hon. gentleman alluded to the question that was mooted the other night by the Attorney-General. If he meautdiuuesion in that lining, the right hon. gentleman opposite had thee:lncurrence of the house in that respect. (Hear, hear.) Mr. W. I'. WOOD said he certainly thought the debate ought to be adjourned as there were many hon. asiabers who wished to *sprees their opinions on the main question ; and after what he had heard from the noble lord, be had a particular reason for wishing to state his own views on the subject. He knew also that a great many members had left with the perfect certainty that the debate would not proceed. He was perfectly prepared to go on ; at the same time, he should prefer an adjournment. The adjournment of the debate was agreed to, and it was then ordered that it should be resumed at five o'clock, to which hour the house immediately afterwards adjourned. The house resumed shortly before 5 o'clock. ROYAL ASSENT. The Usher of the Black Rid appeared at the table, and summoned Mr. Speaker to attend at the bar of their lord ships' house, to hear the royal assent given to several private and pooh. bills (for which see Lord.' report). The Speaker accordingly left, followed by several mem. bore, and returned at 20 minutes past 6. NATIONAL LAND ASSOCIATION. A petition, complaining of unfair treatment, and praying for inquiry into the management of the National Land Can- I Phal 1, was presented by Mr. BROWNE. , Mr. F. O'CONNOR indignantly disclaimed the impute , tattoo conveyed in this document, which had emanated, he declared, from a body of " ruffians." declared , who had thus testified ; their gratitude for hie own menace of time, trouble, and 8,0001. of money. PRIVATE BILLS. Oa the motion of lir; WatiOisEsiTar, the following returns were ordered:—Returns of the number of private bills introduced and brought from the House of Lords., and of Acta passed in 1850, classed according to the following roads and bridges ; waterworks; s po i lim et : ta prerit tan h w artio s u ; rl, and docks; canes and navisations; churches, chapels, and burying-grounds; paving, lighting, end improving; Rails and other county buildings • Wel°. sures ; small debts courts ; end all other Bills and A nte. Of all the private bills, other than railway bills, which, in the present session, have been treated as opposed bills, specifying those bills which have been classified in groups by the Committee of Selective ; together with the names of the selected members who served on each committee; the Ant and also the last day of the sitting of each committee ; the .amber of days on which ODA committee sat ; the number of days on which each seiseted member he. served ; the bills, the pnasebie of which was reported to have bees proved ; the bills the preamble of which was repotted to have been not proved; the bills re ferred back to the committee of selection, as having became unopposed ; and the bills withdrawn, or not proceeded w ith by the parties. Of all the railway bills which, la the pre. sent eiselen, have bees Mated as opposed bills ; specifying those bias whale here Men asselfied in groups by the eon mitts* of aelectiim ; together with the names of the selected members who served as sash committee; the first, and also the last day of** sitting of each cesamittes ; the number o f den ea w hisk ea& immunities sat; the number of days on whisk Mla selected member has served ; the hale the p e . amble cot whisk was reported to have bees proved ; the bills the preamble of which was reported to have been not proved ; the bills refined beck to the committee of selection as having become unopposed ; and the bills withdrawn, or not pro seeded with by the wdee Of all the private bill., other than r:U s z e az bills, which in the mawmaw, session have been t as asopposed bills, and have been referred to the chairman of the committee of ways and means, to gether with the names of the members who served on each committee; the number of days en which each committee sat • and the number of days on which each member attended ; coati dal the r a ilw a y bills *bleb, Nisi unopposed, have been referred in the present session to the chairman of the committee of ways and means ; toseths r with the names of the members who served on each com mittee; the number A' days on which each committee set; and the number of days on which each member attended. STEAK COMMUNICATION.—INDIA AND AUS. THALIA. Os tho modem of Sir 17 W. 116110, th. following returns were ordered :—Copice of all eorreepondease bar Mejeity'e government widths Bast India C inip an y, and the Board of Miamlioloners for the Affairs of India and:the Court of Direston,• also between her Mejesty'a government and the Pentameter and Oriental Steam Navigation Company, or the Court of Directors and that company, regarding the establishment of, or the node of conducting steam sonunu nication between Su,' and Bombe,. or between Sties and Calcutta or Ceylon and Hong Kong, and with the Mom- Han soloalan. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. REYNOLDS gave miles that, on the motion foe magi this mead ass. ho sturold woo so la I otoestaatt Illia the ,aloud reading be palpated for throe atootha TEE YEOMANRY CAVALRY.—BRISTOL RIOTS. Mr. C. W. (TORRINGTON proemial to tootradia sow Outfits aids to lam la otranzloa Etta tie Witt Samn Yoossaary by the b Ms. mambo( for Bristol (Mt. M. Bak, a lel.) INEPECTI9N OF MINES. In snorer to • quotas frost Mr. F. O'Coamos, SW G. GREY stated that a bill or Ude isla)so had gum do.. fors Ow Roses et Lords, oh . stood for a essoad resdirs that eveaft THE ADMISSION OF JEWS.--CASE OF BARON BOTS!OHILD. • The aides for reinstragtiCtialtak adjourned frost this sorshoe's duke having bees reed, Mr. SMITHY rose—He said that as the government had shown that is was sot Mak inseam to glee say practical support to the pr.pentisa of the hos. member for Montrose, the quietist of the sompetenes of the hems to deal with the oath of &Origin would still lam to be &sided if the amendeteat was. ended so as to allow the Bares Both*. Mild to take bk seek He d seed the palliest at the km. asti leanest member for A that there was no instance of any penes betas to serve is parlianent without Wades as oath on the moored book of the Christian law ; sail that the interposition if parliament wee seeenerg to alter the form Meath. The bests bad is the eme of Me Quaker, tubed eased adeelesades ter the oath. and Mesmer& brought in a bill oar drain wash ehmatits, which bill raselved the anent of the Hones of psis sod Me news, sad there was no mecca why the emus ernes abseil sot be token in this nee. With marl Mks essenies girt Ms oath had always boss ao Munn as to essisis Jews, ths hem sad learned pude sea sanely maid set be isierest of the fan that when pa lliate& was mislaid," toth the oath was framed in melt a marser that it might be takes by either Jew or Chrietke, and that Jews were then admitted, though by eriesesein, width afterwards paned, they were waisted from Ms realm. The noble lord at the head of the government seemed to Min that this was sot a question of civil end religions liberty. but that it was a judielal punka and he had anti cipated the Unties of that jedledal "mike by preiudgieg it. 1 .... 152 .. he noble kri s whitest Maytag waited to hear the shish might be made Is Me howls on that gees ties, themes by isksoreetly prejudging it and drawing a &ninnies bstwesa the judicial pigsties sad the Ireatiou of ei.o eel railsiens liberty. (Hear, bear.) This wee a judicial gonna, ; wee eke a quash. of tied sad relgiess liberty t end if it WS a party question, the tibia lord had dose his utmost to make It so. Bet, whether it was looked at is one sense or in another, or is ell than wawa combined, his (Mr. Austere) vote should follow hie speech, and he sinserely hoped that there would be found many members on both sides of the house who would gin their support to the amendment of the hoc amber for Montrose. (Hear, hoar.) Mr. P..WOOD regretted that the noble lord should lave thought It necessary to have pronounced any opinion at all apes the wooed question—(bear, bear)— beause it was impeenble to say whether any second gnomon would arise. The hones wag at present on the first question, timely, how the oaths were to be token, and whether they were to vote on the Mold= of the hon. member for the Train/shy of Oxford, or on the amendment of the hen. member for Montrose. Now the kw member for the Hai varsity of Ozford had almost abandoned his resolution him self. Still, he (Mr. Wood) was of opiaion that that reso- lution ought not to be withdrawn, but that it ought to be negatived upon • division, because there were many man sash se Moravian. and members of the Society of Friends, who might take an oath without having any such declaration attached to it as was alleged. With reference to the mead:neat. a calm, legal argument had bean addressed to the house by the hon. and learned member for AMandee, deserving of attention. He (Mr. Wood) had said ea Friday last that no lawyer la that house would hesitate to assert that it was in accordance with law for every individual to be sworn in the manner most binding on his own commie:ice. That general proposition had not been contradicted, but an :attempt had been made to show that that proposition ought not to be too widely laid down, for this reason, that • distinetios was to be drawn between official sad judicial oaths. He had heard ao authority cited with reference to this limitation. It was no doubt perfectly true that at one time there was a general assumption in this country that every person was • Christian, and that the oath on the holy gospels was prescribed to be taken. But, the moment the (tendon arose, whether or not that particular mode of administering would be binding on the con science of :the isdividsal, it was determined that the real inquiry should be—was there a religious sanction for the administration, and did the party taking the oath feel himself in the presence of a Clod who wee as avenger of falsehood ? (Hest.) The law of the Roman emperors was, " Had the man boon sworn ?" St. Augustine declared that, " If they would not admit the oath of an idolator, there was no aderjusta method of keeping a covenant with him or of preesrving the peace." The question seemed to be, not by what gods a man had sworn, but whether he believed in a deity ; and, without a defied farm being exactly laid down, the man's emiscienee was reached, and he was not sworn by that which he did not believe. In 1755 the question was raised in France whether a man who was • Jew should be allowed to swear, in a court of Ingle*, in a manner different from the French people; and while the counsel were discussing the point, the witness put on his hat, took the Old Testament in his hand, and was told by the deck to swear in the manner be considered most binding. Subsequently, an ant was passed in Francetbat Jews, in the matter cf oaths, should be put exactly on the same footing as other foreigners, and that they should not be forced to swear. That honourable and learned gentleman had referred to the declaratory act and said that that act could not alter the law. In so saying he was quite correct. But what did the declaratory act, which was applicable to all time, declare? Why this—that if a man took an oath, either as a witness ' or an appointment to office, which he declared to be binding, he was bound. (Hear, hear.) What then became of the distinction drawn by the hon. and learned member fur Abingdon ? Moreover, the English law swept away that disticction altogether, for it declared that "the oath was to be taken in the manner most bind ing." (Hear.) It was next alleged that the oath of snore. macy was to be taken on the Holy Gospels, and that • Jew could not, therefore, take that oath ; but the fact was, that the act of Charles II ,which referred to the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, contained nothing about the HolyGaspels,but merely directed that every member of the house should take the oaths; and it was worthy of observation that that act re. cited the acts of Elizabeth and James, and abrogated them. Looking on it as • solemn legal trial, he thought that chaos who advised Baron Rothschild had advised him well and rightly that the first question to be determined was, whether he should have the oath preferred to him in the manner most binding en his conscience. That might lead to some ques lion of distrihutim of the oath, but at present that was not before the house, and he was sorry the noble lotd at the bead of the government had expressed himself so strongly on the point. (Hear, hear.) He denied, in conclusion, that the Jews were aliens, and said that Lord Mansfield had settled that question for ever by buying a freehold house of a Jew. (Cheers ) Mr. S. WORTLEY said ha wu anxious to state that it wee his intention to vote against the motion of the hon member for Montrose. He did not, k , rely on the argument, that in taking the oath it was necessary that it should be taken on the holy 'wasp lists. Wu it not trifling with the question, to pursue the cause now sought, and asking the hon. member to take two oaths, when they knew that he was not a cbristian • and that when he came to the next oath, which contained the words "on the true faith of a christian," they must turn on him and shut the d.or of the house upon him. The gallery was then cleared for a divion. The motion of Sir H. bums was first negatived without a division. _ I;.liCrstis's ensendment was then put u a substantive Dipti" o tadth . ent= divided— k r the . Against it 69-54 The orders of the day were that proceeded with. MERCANTILE MARINE BILL. This bill was mad a third time and passed, with verbal 113 QUERN'S MESSAGE.—MARLBOROUGH-110U8R. The houso then went Into committee to @mad'r the royal message respecting the preparation of Marlborough-house, and its settlement upon the Prince of Wales during the joint lives of the prises end her Majesty. Mr. HUME objected to making a provision nine years be forehand for the residence of the royal prince. Lced J. RUSSELL explained that Marlborough-house, being crown property, was by her Majesty graciously offered sea temporary locale for the Vernon gallery of paintings, and the settlement upon the Priam of Vales was now &eked tor, in order to enter • timely caveat agMna any claim that might hereafter be urged upon a pies of usage in favour of retaining the pictures In that edifies when it same to be wanted for the establishment of the heir apparent. I Mr. BRIGHT thought that the present debate was suffi cient to indicate that Marlborough-house was merely loaned to the gallery, without hampering the legislature with a set tlement. Mr. HENLEY apprehended that some change of plan might occur within the ensuing nine years which might render it advisable to appropriaae the house In question to some other purpose, when the nation would have to buy back at a hush pries the rights they were now giving away. Mr. TRELLWNY was oenvinold that the use of the duchy of Cornwall, if properly administered, would sta des to reader the Prunes of Wales independent of any parlia mentary grant of settlement. Notwithstanding an assurance (ninths CH ANCILLOS of the E1C111141.12K, that no establishment was yet thought of, and no gnat of messy asked foe in consequence of this royal mes sage, the opposition was urged for some time, after which the committee divided on the question that the chairman should report p_rogries. The numbers were: Noes 6B Ayes The gvvernstent proposition being thus affirmed, the house resumed without farther remark. I 6 WWII, to Yr. NIWDZOATI, Yr. I'. WOOD said that he understood from his hon. friend the member for the City of Loudon that it was his Intention to present himself at the tattle of the house, for the purpose of taking the oaths, at twelve Valor* to-morrow (this day). (Cheers.) With reform°e to an observation which ►e haa made on that day, he thought that he had been misunderstood. What he stated was that than, was eely one question before the hose*, and that on that he would reserve any observations he might hays to make till a farther stage of the peoesedlop. Mr. ANBTRY wished to know whether It was the fatale tioo of the bor. member for Warwickshire to renew his part of ths &motion to-morrow ? Mr. NB WDEGATII said that he pat his question to the for die elabire ' rof Oaford for the attamaismail el had already .heast lassamnisand 3:HU96E111. mid that le had stated dot the ameadsamts ow the lalsh Fraashin Bill would come se for ,'heasiikratios tomorrow, but of onuse as hoe. member waisted himself to tam die oaths, he email ass /sari... M A I L ig e lt e l l aT mid Mat he did will ma why k was to p 1=1'4416'4,1y into a d'asaufam as the matter, aa hos. masher presented himself to take the oaths. dleanrloa might haratpoard• EXHInITION OP 1861. C Os the motion that the Wow go tato a Committee of /Plfr volonel BIBTHORP moved, that an humble address be presented to the Clasen, praying that bar Majesty will be pacionaly Oilseed to direct this Attorney-General to give hie situation to the Ming of the proposed information for an in junction to restrain the ereeMea of my Milldams in say pan of Hyde put for the ittended ezhibidon of 1861. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the hon. wad gallant member asked the home to petition the mows to interfere with the ellsention of its first law Aker so far se to order him to sip a document of which no other p. nos is the home but Wawa wit as all soaaisaat. Surely that was sot a proper souse for the hones to panne. (Hear.) The motion was negatived without a division. MAERIAOIIB BILL. Oath, ceder of the dayiWi= i;sirresenntithre of supply, Mr. J. S. STUART said he perceived that it had been stated by a reverend prelate in soother glue that as actual majority of that house had, is the aggregate of the several divisions, voted easiest the Marriages Rill. Now, he had a carefully prepared and INClllolsaamary of all the division lists ; and, so far from the statement to which he referred being earrecr, the following wen the rusk: —the whole number of members of that house who bad voted against the Marriages 8i11‘223 ; tbs whole number who had voted in favour of it, 294 ; leaving a class majority of 71 in favour of the bill. SUPPLY. Thu hours then went into committal of supply. 731,2061. was proposed for half pay and retirement to oaken of the navy and royal marines. Mr. HUME s 1 this was a rots on which he malt nice the question of which ha had so long given notice, namely, how far the government or the homes wars disposed to carry out the rearssmendation of the menmittems on naval estimate which eat in 111411, that the aumbsr of admirals should be gradually reduced from 160 to 100. Sir F. BARING maid his hon friend must acknowledge that this was hardly the proper method of arriving at the result which he himself desired. No one could propose to deprive existing Olken on half pay of the amonst to which they were entitled, and it was useless for his hon. friend to propose to stretch eff the sum of 3,0001 unless he could scratch off a proportionate amber of admirals with equal facility. (Laughter.) He (Sir F. Baring) fully admitted that the whole subject deserved consideration ; but as regarded the particular recommendation to which he referred, he mast remark that, had the chairmen been allowed to vete, there would not have been a majority of the committee la favour of it. The committee proposed that if the recommendation were adopted the retired list should be kept open for captains who might wish to avail themselves of it. An actuary had calculated that the utmost amount saved by the means pro. posed would be 10,0001. a year ; and if the retired list of cap tams were largely i..creued that side of the question must not be forgotten. The course adopted in this country for many press was that of makiag tronsotions ae economi cally as possible. Then came a period when it was abeo lately necessary that a number of promotions should take place; and he thought it weed be by far better to let them flow on evenly than to have to make them by sadden jerks. The reduction in the amount of half pay had already been considerable. Since 1831 it had amounted to 160,0001. As he had already intimated, he was opposed to any immediate alteration of the present arrangement, but at the same time he would not deny that the question might be usefully considered at some future period. Captain PELHAM looked for the remedy of the evil complained of in increased economy in naval expenditure generally, which might be secured without at all impairing th.• efficiency of the service, and if such economy were really carried out the country would, he believed, enable the government to place the retired list on a piper foot ing. In the last two years a saving of 800,0001. bad been effected in connection with the dockyards and the building of ships; and, if the contract system were revived, a still further saving might be effected. He did not expect to see a thorough reform in the Ad miralty until the Board, with the exception at least of the First Lord, had ceased to be political, and had become per manent. He regretted that he could not (as was under stood) vote with the hon. member for Montrose. Mr. COBDEN was astonished at the conclusion at which the hon. gentleman had arrived, after arguing in favour of a reduction of expenditure in the navy. t Hese, hear.) Those who spoke out of doors sometimes accused the house of having an aristocratic leaning, and of almcst confining themselves to proposals to cut down the weaker and humbler portions of the service. The juice of that accusation would now be tested. The report recommended that the number of admirals should be gradually reduced from 150 to 100, not by dismissing any admirals, not by depriving any existieg admirals of their Batt, rank, or pay, but by making only one promotion for three deaths until the desired diminution kad besa effected. The country would now have an opportunity of Judging how far that house was disposed to treat fairly and equitably different classes of public servants. A considerable numbet of shipwrights had been dismissed, and meetings had been held to raise subscriptions fur their relief. The committee on the estimates declared that only 14 admirals could be employed. Would the house, thee, reject the reasonable proposition before it ? Admiral DUNDAS thought the hon. gentleman bad not put the qu stion fairly before the house. In 1816 there were 220 admirals, there were now only 150, of which number 40 received only the pay of rear-admirals. In 1816 the number of captains was 867 ; it was now 511 ; and the number of lieutenants having been 3,999 at the former pericd, was now only 2,200. One half the naval officers had gone off the list sines 1815, and still the hon. gentleman was not satisfied. Mr. HUME said that the gallant admiral stated that in 1816 there was a certain number of admirals, and that they were reduced. Would he state how many had been pro moted since that time ? The fact is, they bad had more promotions during the peace than ever obtained during the war. During the last year 14 admirals had been promoted. The committee found that there were 156 admirals, and they recommended that thee should be gradually reduced to 100, which he thought was a great many. Take the list of 600 captains, and they would find that 250 of them had out of BCO had never served a day as commander. The fact was they were making the service of the navy a pen sion list. Admiral BERKELEY observed that the hon. member for the West Riding was never more mistaken in his life than when he raid that the navy was kept up for the aristocracy. These men were promised this promotion for their galhuttry ; it was a bargain made in the time of war. Mr. BRIGIIT thought the hon. member for Glou cester, who spoke last on behalf of the admirals, had put this question in a very unfair and unsound view before the house. He appeared to think there was some bargain with every man that entered the navy that at a certain period of his life he should be an admiral (Hear, hear) Some hon. gentlemen opposite appeared to agree with that. (" Hear, hear," from the same quarter.) That was the strangest notion of public service that he ever heard in that house. The only contract that could be im plied was that upon certain principles laid down, whether it were upon seniority or in any other way, that as the service required promotion for the efficient carrying on of that department, they should have such pre emi nence as the service could glee them, but there was no contract that a proportion of officers should be raised to the rank of admiral. That would be to make the navy subservient to the offizen and not the officers to the navy. Colonel THOMPSON could not help saying that he was obliged to agree with the hon. member for Manchester that there could not by possibility be any such principle as officers claiming promotion beyond that which was necessary for the service. Admiral BOWLES supported the vote. Mr. HUME remarked that it was the Admiralty itself that proposed in 1830 that only one should be promoted to the rank of admiral for every thee* vacancies, till the number was reclined to 100 ; but the Admiralty did not act up to that. Sir F. T. BARING said it was his arm conviction, that if they carried out the recommendation of the committee, it would at that be attended with an increase of el, pence. Its did sot mean to say MO teat by a well considered whims they could reduce the numbers of admirals, and effect a saving thereby. ... Kr. CORRY supported the Tots on the ground that not to make the promotions would be * commit a breach of faith. Captain PECHRLL complained that., OA ptain Sir Henry Hart, the hydopapher of the navy, and lEother °Mote who held another appointment, had been compelled to aims to their names being placed on the retired list, being informed that they must either do this or give. up their appointments, while a junior fame bad been permitted to hold the situa tion of Commissioner of Greenwich Hospital, and was not reqaired to place himself on the retired list. • • Six T. ACLAND laid it was true there was a majority of the committee in favtur of the recommendation, but the chairman, who did not vote, was against it, and that made it tqual. The saving by carrying out the recommendation would only be 10,0001. a year, and in • great maritime country like this he did not think that was an object to put in comparison with the just expectations of the gallant men who wars waiting for their promotion. Sir J. OKANANI said ho was not in the house when the discussion commenced, and therefore he was not aware what was the precise form of the emotion, but he imagined that in point of form it was not a reduction in the number of admirals that was proposed by the hon. member for Mantra*, but that he had rafted that question by pre posing some small diminution in the vote. In point of sub *tenor, the hon. member wished to raise in this committee the question that was discussed in the naval com mittee, where the proposition was carried for which he (Sir J. Graham) held himself responsible, that there should be a reduction in the number of admirals from 150 to 100. The hon. gentleman the member for Devoe aid that radar tion would not be of any g use, but still they ought to consider that it was a saving ; and the right point to which the House of Commons ought to come to was, that in the state service there ought to be no unnectraary expense. Now he was bound to say that his hon. friend the member for Tyrone was equally right in the assertion that the gradual reduction of the number of :area on half-pay in the navy, so far as admirals worn oonantad, had not yirt his. earned into effect. promotion is three vecasein. The real whether the time had arrived for tootation R~ the which pervaded all other reeks apply to admirals.. `4",, e it appeared in evidence that at no time duriam• War wee there a greater number of admirals emploj *T 5 . the antatry thea 32, and that the number empliv.a.l7, the present tame did sot timed 12. Now b e • hew dedly of opinion oraltht although the admirals' lie; g it .„,_ considered mere ees am a reward for put yet it was a question of degree, and they bear in mind what were the real wants of the merely*. In time of peace 130 admirals and w ale were • larger camber than were f, (Rear, bear.) nil prepaid= before the sole," mine* wee that the slumber et admirals should he er‘sel:44; redacted from 150 to 100, that, se upon the death of tr. 4l " eaptaiss they Daly peanut= one, sad as on the cleattirtesi three commanders they only promoted one lieutetu o t as the death of three admirals, only we alweld be marrie ti d' till the somber was reduced to 100. Mar, b tu ., might be said that, oonsideriag the age of the poot. tg a,..`t the probability wu, if that rule were ad pad, tu t it ;* short time there would be no admirals sufficiently and active to undertake the important duties of naval Coo?. menders. But the committee had also proposed, is order give vigour and activity to the higher brunches of the vice, that one out of every three promotions should not go by seniority, but that, on the responsibility of the Ad miralty, officers of distinguiahed merit, without reference to senora should be raised to the rank of admiral; whereby t h e would derive the benefit of both vigour sod seniority. Having propounded that view in the committee, and hiving mince reflected on it attentively and maintained it, Le (111 cot hesitate to support it now, both by his speech and so e (Rear, bear.) It was indispensable to have loath and vigour lei the admiral,' hat; and that twilit only be l aw., by promoting by merit as well as by seniority, to we Brest of one in three. He considered this point the woe ie. portant which had been brought before the whet ammit• ee. Here advocated. and he could not hesitate now to support the vic e he ce p Sir F. T. BARING said he did not believe that this am a question of noway at all. It was very well to te:y et economy in general ; but he should have bus better satisfied had the right hon. baronet stated is figures the =out of economy which he proposed to them. Cnild sue saving be made to the public, it might be expedient cad proper to encounter the risk of dissatisfyin g be peo ream by passing over the claims of old god deserving officers; but the amount in •piesdom so small, that he doubted whether they shou,d be acting wisely and with a view to real economy, i,y lowing out the system proposed. To strike otl adreiny sounded very large; but he believed the savior there , ' ern mot estimated at more than 10,0001. a year at the utmost, end the absolute saving would be very imaa itd•ed. It was proposed that part of the promo ions shou:d he t y merit; but it should be remembered that those who h a d merit grew old too. (Hear, hear.) After a few words from Admiral Bo wtrra, Sir J. GRAHAM said that the reduction of onethird tf the whole number of admirals would effect a erect suite io the amount of half-pay; otherwise it tea case of despair. (Hear, hear.) If they could not eith er .tf,, e youth and vigour into the list, the matter was in :Bed hopeless. Mr. CORRY expressed his conviction th it ih the t . srve of • few years there would be • very great infusion of y „Ism blood into the admiral's list. Mr. HENLEY said the country would not long rahnino the existing state of things in the navy, where the pr•iy. between the effective and non-effective force had und. ?tit no change for 35 years. He should cordlal.y amendment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER depesce:s: the interference of the House of Commons on these quer. t.. (Ironical cheers.) He deprecated it, t'st as to w, i.d be done, but how it should be done. The interference the house had mopped the reduction which was in C . .:lltit of being made. Several motions had been made to see. lents promotion, and ,the government had beet :e:: a minorities. Hence additions had been male t., .te weight of the navy, and the government had been preset:el carrying out the reductions they contra:pia:M. Capt. HARRIS said that in case eta war, it 'nu.: t i neoemary to call a great number in the halt-pay ..s: ,r.:4 active servica. In case of an emergency. they to: make naval officers at once, so that the noneerf.cnse service was not the mere dead weight which it war cs..ed. The committee then divided— For Mr. Hume's amendment 72 Against Sir G. PECHELL said he wished to tali the setec..... the committee to a subject of rest hsrdsh:p which affected the senior lieutenants of the navy. It had Seen arranged that 300 of the senior lieutenant.: of the navy elocu.d receive an increased pay of 7s. a day; ! s:'oy on order in council it was decided that there accejte,: t.:e ran,: of commander, and retired as such. sbould c:.*. receive that increase of pay. After a few words from Sir F. B agreed to. The vete of 490,3451. for military pmoiens allmances was neat agreed to. Oa the vote of 167,0361. for civil pensione and islowireee, Sir G. PECHELL said a reguiaticn was ma • !. that the widows of officers marrying after that loxe te.eo.l forfeit their pentions, which he considered very seem. Sir F. BARING said, that as a general rule it e continued. However, there were cases that might e .sa:s into consideration. e T)te WM The vote was then agreed to. The following votes were then severally 'greet •a -135,700/. for ship stern; 21,1411. for seamen's and mit.:es extra pay, and 8.4501. extra pnvis(ons for navy. On the vote of 764,236/. fur Poe of packet s-rr;:e. Mr. SCOTT moved that the vote be redirzed They were at present paying as much for 7.:),.)t-) tr.: es II they would have to pay tor 370,000 miles. Sir F. BARING said the amount of the entrat wa' 71.1 every year and he hoped the how: CO: violation o f contract at present. Lard NAAS was unwilling to reopen the qa.sti 7. mail to Au:uslia, which was so fully discussed the te: evening. But he should say he thought that diseu , n . n vu postponed, as also the present vote, until the (write ?r.l::.e relating to the issue between the East Inla her Maj. sty's government should have teen. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER te gave no such undertiking on the night in ouestien. Mr. HUME thought there should be a yeir:y etstercent of the number of rips under contract, the Is atees went, and the amoant they coat ; with an opp. to show what income they produced from park cow le other unreel. (Hear, hear ) These votes shou' ! as , introduced earlier in the ses.bn. It was the (Tint , a that many of their contracts were most rick:es:l W.:T.I into. (Hear, hear ) After a few words from Mr. SCOTT, The CHAIRMAN inquired if , he hon. man ber !Cir lel to press his proposition to • division. k Cries of \vat draw.") After which, Mr. F. SCOTT withdrew hie motion, and after some dis mission the Tote was agreed to. On the vote of 211,1591. 3e. 7d. for the estimate of the naval expenditure in excess, S.r H. NY ILLOUUHRY said that f,r the :o>t nor yeas* there had been • grant amouroirg tr, 1,800,0001. He called upon his right hon. tn:na q 7, state to the committee on what authositr the nwney wen paid. This was 0.4 c,,nrenient to the Treasury. cor was there any surplus upon any other grant out of which the money could be paid. Tnc Appropriation Act stated that y, must not exceed the entire sum in any serri:e, bat If :tee was an excess in any vote it was in the pima or the Ad miralty to go to the Treasury and get their authority to spend the money. There was 29,0341. 13s. 61 for iron steamers. If the committee could support that gran', r: WAS absurd to say that this house could have any c , ntror wtat ever over the public money. There was a distinct vi,;ol. ti rn of the Appropriation Act, which declared that a certain sum of money wan to be devoted t r the wants of the array and navv. and they must receive the intim am:uelt- Sir F. BARINti was not aware of all the Wrinkles he had been guilty of until he heard the speech of is hon. bind. He bad only been too honest, and would take care not to be honest again. The year before the last the money had been taken for the purp se of paying for these steamers. The contract was expected to be pr COI tura before the ter. minali mof the demist year, and did not tell within the financial year, and the expanse which hat been incurred was transfered to the next year. Mr. HENLEY sail that what the hon. btronet cont pinned of was not only the mode of keel lig the account. , but that • sum of 211,1,11/1. het log been spent is ex, no of the estimate, the hon. gentleman said, true I have entailed the fault and have shown it ; I might have carried the money over to next year, and then you would not hue known about it • but there was • third mode of ac:nc, Ind that was not deafirg with the emcee. He agrei d eith the hon. baronet that if money was spent for this estimate , should be plainly shown. After acme further conversation the vote was agreed to. 453,8911, was voted fur the Commissariat Departmeut , and 43,7911. for half-pay, pensions, and allowances in the sane department. 5,2301. was proposed to defray the expense of steering monument to the late Sir Robert reel in Westemaster te Abhey. Lord J. MANNERS said he believed there Wes a sent& impression out of doors that no sore monum tits ou t tht to he erected in Weetmincer Abbey, sad he hoped the se:ed would receive the consideration of the government. Lord J. RUSSELL said there was no ether piece what the monument could be placed with propriety. The vote was then agreed to. 50,000/. was voted for civil contingencies. The house then resumed, and the CHAIRMAN INT,HHI Proven. The report of the supply on Friday night lit brought up. DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE'S ANNUITY DILL. I I This bill was read a wood time. NAVY PAY BILL. This bill was read a third time. EXCISE SUGAR AND LICENSES BILL. This bill paned through committee. CUSTOMS ACTS. The house then went into committee on these sets. The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQU ER b, now prop.acd to repeal the remaining export duty on which amounted only to VOW. At present smelt wire aot allowed to carry out fete of dots to any country bit ihtt to which they belonged. That sometimes entailed gust bud ship, and he pruposed to et rid of the List *bred ol the A resolution for that purpose was then agreed to. A resolution was also propoied by the Cronin the Enomaiavia, and agreed to placing 'hips of Jitirrect Ulna on • level with respect to ;he timbir duty. lf