The Express. — London, England, 1850-04-30 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—MONDAY, APRIL 29. Ms bow .is as lam 'Weak. LN LaiiiiivaLa est PETITIONS PRESENTED. Pcars.osstai.—By Lard REDZSDALL trams • piss• Wersisiiabo• ; Lard WILLOUGHBY D'IRILSBY Crist ; tM Earl of OLENOALL, Ines' piss, Is ; kid the Bari of YARBOROUGH, Ws Lissa* all met essday labw is um Perasilse. COMITY COVIIII.-67 Lard W. D'ERIBBT, Rams. h Lisssisokkir; sad W Earl of YARBOROUGH. hi Limas, is kwar dis swanks el ths prisdpi• at wireseerewww. . - Ames us Zocustornoss Cladshrly Lard LTT. TILTON, trees the elms ot a the dhow of =dotta is tbei ar . is. EIS to ester of sad Eir .anent situ smoresilles. - lasso Pooa Law.— 11# EiaoisiittbAx, sewl of the. atiweadow of it• MODiesagioss of Me= Vohs. The petitioners eursplikeed that the viewieerdbehs strosh nest estrausysar pell very Wilt Weds% had,, laterned rowans do nask t*. Ha Ilmedsht it ass dor 64 of the preerarbeal to oebelltsle tine ether eases hr Snob vlsegatodime t sad he uirb.d week WNW, tha renew =tsiff Iffesset ssoMM. Weeded to pmts. ay of law is rawest to do egosiallsest of ohs 'whew is Indeed ? The llargele of LANSDOWNE odd the goveesset esti t, sot ossiespiete istrodeolag say seems es Ur mieni bat they led so lateatioa further to ...snap as grimmest et viewesudisas. Us wee aot prepared peat 'Mar to oasts or duly the astesease suds by the sgr eL es words from the Marquis of Warrawne mai the of MOVXTCASIIILL is support of Me prayer of the petition, It wee ordered to Mt a. Me table. WEST INDIA APPEALS BILL. Oa the modes 51 Ball OMIT this bill we. read a second time. FISHERIES (SCOTLAND) BILL. The Dale of ARGYLL laid ea tits table a bill to alter t►o proem law of fisheries Is Soothsad. Ho did not wish Utak' the opinion otitis home upon tho bill until it lag bon circulated is Scalia& T►s tall Was thou rood a Ent time. TITLES OF RELIGIOUS CONGREGATIONS (SCOTLAND) BILL. The report on this hill was brouilit up sad reaslood. Their lordships thou adjourserd at si s'slack. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-MONDAY, Ann. 29. TM Bruno took tb Oak at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. SECOND RlUDlXo.—ltailiny Companies' Cbodng AIM/- dation BM. Axaaaxaars CONSIDESCD.—FoIIeity Of PbyliCißOO and Bnegmas el Gimoom ; Natischani Freeman's Alloimoses Royal Colleges of Summons of Edialenekb; S)uth Beets= Rathrsy (Amendment of Acta, Poway to false additional Capital); Bills. TN= RlADlNO.—Colosintke Almanac' Company Bill. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. Rtrpccrtows in ARRIATILNIII.—By Mr. L HODGES, from Sent; Mr. THORNBLY, from a }lam not heard ; for inane sterol reduction of lITEIRM/Ots. SANITARY Rerosa.—By Mr. LUSHINOTON, from the inhabitants of St.Chorytes-r-the-Est; Lord DUNCAN, from s plate near sot head; Sir B. HALL, from the florist of St. Mary's; Sir E. BUXTON, from the parish of St. Andrew's, Bethnal errs. ua f of monitory reform. EDYCATION BILL.-13y Mr. 0 DUNCO ABE, from plants ut the North Riding of Yorkshire, agaiest this bill. Invitanrast. Leninism. —By L OROSVENOR, I from env. ral placer is Middlesex ; Col. THOMPSON, from Bt Martin's-inthe-fivlde ; Mr G. THOMPSON, from the Tower Hamlets; Mr. LUSHINOTON. frogs Clerkeasell ; Mr. HUME, from St. Jessioperish, Victoria-park, spinet istremsrel iffit•TIROMUI. STAMP DYII6II BILL.-. 47 Mr. SADLEIR, from the Bristol Law Aisonation tot the insertion of a clause is the Stamp Donee Bill providing that all deeds 'l:rented and stamped before the parsing of the proposed act shall be deemel to be duly rasps& RAILwAY Turno Bits..—By Mr. PILKINOTON, from the Ert LanearLir• Railway Company, is favour of this bill. lIRSCANTILI ?daunts BILL —By Mr. HUMS. from the shipowsere sad isrpestors of Montt as. calling attention to the Maria. Bill, sad praying that tie Home skald races mina it before prang it tato a law. Poo* Law is ficoneato.—By Mr. HUME, from Mon trose. agsiaat tbe preemie system of peer law is Seotlano. Bassos Bass.—By Mr. HERBERT, from Kerry, semplactiog of savings brake defoliation'. Tnxse on KNOWLIDOM —By Mr. HUME, from the pro princes, Um pastors, sad the psblielsn of the Noniron Starterri, respleleiaa of the stamp duty as newspapers. COMMITTEES OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON BILLS. . . 10.eiffififf ;awe setae, that, Oa Thanday seat, ea the seder ad thong heiag read nor thair ping iato a ceonantow el supoly, he neauld wave a renolation, to the effect that whoa sense wee Fives of any aseadoent on the qtestioa of gods/ into easinitome of sappl or ways and means. such seaandweat should come on ford sad be desided oa Wort the origiaal (poetise ehaulg debated. ACTIONS AT LAW AND EQUITY AGAINST THE -- CROWN. Mr. ROEBUCK pee aeries that, ou the 14th of May, he would move for leave to being is s bill to allow say ?er aser to bring *roues et law sod equity against the wow* without previeu-ly bevies received the pensiesies or the WASTE LANDS IN THE COLONIES. Mr. B. BENISON gave notice that Mt world, on t►e bringing op of t►e report on the Australian Coloake Bill, move an amendment to allow t►e legislating is see► solony the mantheirent of its warm lend'. PARLIAMENTARY OATHS._ _ _ _ Mr. Wow; po.tpaaedltegossuon to the Pint Lord of the Tremor', relating to the catle edmiaktered to me ahem on their mime their mate is that home until tl.morrom (this day). METROPOLITAN INTERMENTS. Lard D. 8 I DART gate notice that on their goieg fhrwltlt the next stage of this bill he would wove so t )iERCArI LE STEAM-VESSELS. Mr. ANDERSON pastpsaaa Ids gentias ih• gearetary at the Treasury with vatossass ht tha ameagemais that bad Urea made by the imearnsat as mike mosamalbs steam. Teasels aveßaMp as a amaissid dams ustia hem day. POST OFPIOEB IN IRELAND. In -- Mr. HATTER bowel leave to state that at the time whop the orlgiaal arrangement was made with tepid to England foe the reduction of Sunday ►ehoar la the poet offices, it was in contemplat iota that it should be Sitablilli to Inlaid provided it were Icund to be successful is Eseland. As far as the measure had bees carried out be believed that it had last with noiversal approhati in, and arraagenteaft for the purpaie of redusieg Sunday labour in the piet-elloes in Ireland and Scotland would be carried mat m moos se In answer to a similar question from Mr. 11.00• X Mr. HATTER said that the subject would receive the tallest ennaideraties. THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. tia7stionniaii4to the !MAW of the new houses of parliament, said that u long u tM equabbles that sow took plus between Mr. Barry and Dr. Reit rominued, they would be finished. Mr. GREENS said that he was aware that t►ere wee an action pending between Mr. Bury and Dr. Reid, ►ut un happily it was a subject that did not come within the power of the eoramissionen. They, however, had used their best endeavour% to reconcile them. Mr. OSBORN it gave notice that co ow early day he would draw the attenti A of the hoes. to the tastier, with a view of getting rid both of Mr. Barry mid Dr. Reid. (Chem.) _ _ EVICTIONS . IN GALWAY.. Mr. P. SCHOPE gave amigo that Milan, W he would ask the S :notary of State for Inland whether he was aware that as many as 58 ejectment moms had Deem mod in a single day in the county of Galway, and that thousands of pe ion ware in that colony tering driven froaa their hums; and whether the system of ejections Was not illegal, sad • hitch aim and misdemeanour according to the ancient memo law of Deland? REDUCTION OF OFFICIAL SALARIES. Mr. M. GIBSON asked if It was the intention of the bon. member for Oxfordshire to preosed with hie inotioa on this subtrxt to morrow. Mr. H LEY said that it was his intention to do so, and that the motion would not materially differ is its terms hose that which appeared on the votes. MILITARY KNIGHTS OF WINDSOR. Col. SALW EY poetpoel hie emotion for the appoint. seat of a select conedtore to inquire into the case of the military knights of Wisdom, eatif the 21st of May. MEN OF COLOUR IN AMERICA. Mr. COCKBURN ming the noble lord the Seeretary of Foreign Affairs in his place wished to ask him • qualm, relative to a statemeat which had here meetly lode at one of the metropolitan polio °Mose by a cartels of a British Teasel just returned iron Charlotte, U.S. It appeared that is the Sours* of a late inquiry at the Thames polies-Aloe, the master of the barque Mary Anne stated that ea kis arrival outwards w the port of Clorketon, Unmet other'. ties ease on board and seised his steward, a man of color, he Maine coaanatted no Wane, bet Wags es the ass nary, a man of steeliest character. The authorities teak the maa on shore and kept him in prison the whole time the vessel was is harbour, a spar of two moth,. (Hear hear.) farther rtagd that each ma the invadable pop tie. at Cherlestos with motet to Wound sun es beard British or ether mods Now, isteenbak se it appeared to La (Mr. Cockbsru) that the moles of wising the penes of a British 'MOO even before he had set foot oe the Amnon MI, and ea board a British vessel, was, if not • direct intriagenent of the law of nations, at lest • con travention of the usual practice of civilisation la mar ceatile transactions, he begged to ask the noble lord whether he wee aware that such Mementoes had taken 'Woe. la the emoul plaoe, being aware that there wee • mesiderable amount of public enci.euront on the subjoin, ha Mimed to ask whether government Ind sad. any arrangement with the government of the United States to merest in future British objects, wheels. r black or whin. long visited with sash a seandalons invasion of ioternationsl Nebel (Ober.) Lied PALMERSTON said that the object was one to Which be had already turned his attention, and he wee sorry to say that the question was by no means new to the morn. sent. It wee as undoubted fact that there 'listed In the stag of Carolina, and he believed alto M loreinans, a law by winch all free men of colour, whether lereipen or el , isms of Ike States, were 4.141.1, ea nabs Ms the stab el Ow.- impriessmat with view le their . With veer - free MS ef It — eZiaiy, they were ause width' r' than ray whoa ziTeciri-eglisralmq at ow r arm Ile V sewasia sups Mt • — www - iiiii itWist was a law WWI WY k woe so to fordasas ; 1.41 lasirsowl the mai • sue to the .oweelep aglow thes=z:= 4 :Asiet...--- midi the teed sad of satiate, bet es ideseisom with ameis portions wets te be parillikti at all tiwt te satar 4 Lesidi rwrae=e in tbetetet=tre'w se r it isis P i b rf lila:: nes IMAMS Meeelmedleeretney for Foreign *Sake, wee that theStMeal pscpambest bee empower thertaseikkit Orelm to mho cedes law, wed that if thw1441 4 0 14 desits richly eed•posesed the UAW the mead of that Ash% lessded en the WINO of 1119/4 the gortreatint of the UsiouNllsess TsMI the gasps se dimwit, if sot laaposiblo t. wilit. that they shwa Mobilsed, howeves releseardy, o veritter et whet iseemeetims kw bake •stesetese of the selpststies of Me Vasty a W. by Ind* either party wee et Bert; a soy thee seireesent MMS loso= se Mil to the treaty of 1116 by "Wisp 19 soothe , Usder these eareemsesees, he was sorry to say that it did met appear to her Meleity's serwertmet that soy Message meld rank boa farther preedep the treaty. Whams sight be Ss mew of the law, eilesenos was neessiesa, sad Sterillers If. free person of *oar catered wields Choi Pla elbow stat es, he did so, bevies M W ews ow seamp q msossto which he was @spates WINK (Rees, Mar.) WOODS AND FORESTS. teal DUNCAN asked the First Lord of the Troesery whether say see of the sande; Oertmleakesse of Woods I s t 6 e4 w aied he sepereassaties, sad if is, windier he lad whether it me iseried to epeeist my ass of the saletieg Cessiwisseee Weed., F..%,, Werke, to elts Aka of Chief Cesmhelesse ef Week min the hill now ispesedies la psalms* ter the espandes of the two ts ? J. RUSSELL NM that a Restless' In the Woods Furs's, who had bees 40 roan la the public serviee, bad applied for seperanssatios, and kis this. had bees elasidered in the weal way by the Treseary. Re had been saperestriated with an allowanes of 1,6001. a year, bet setained Worths until the bill had pawed which was this before the house. With respect to the ortand quartos, he meld art give the noble lord any isformation. Whoa the bill bad pawed through psrliameet, it would be for her beefy to select a fit and proper pantos to fill the office of SINECURES IN THE ARCHDIOCESE OF CANTERBURY. Sir B. HALL wished to ask the noble lord at the head of the government a qaestion respecting a rumour which had saved a great deal of excitement and dissatisfaction in the metropolis. He hoped that the noble lord would be able to contradict the rumour, as it had causet a very general ex pression of censure ag.inet the highest ecclesiastical authority is the kingdom. His question related to the sinecure cake of registra of the prerogative coon of Canterbery. Lord J. RUSSELL, having begged pardon N. interrupt, lag the hem. baronet, wished him to defer the question until the day, as he had only jest then wr teen for information, and had not, aet, received any answer. Sir B. HALL then gave notice that the question he should ask on Ws day would have reference to the fact that there MY an °Mee in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, the registrar et which held a sinecure of the valets of 9,000 i. • year. (Hear.) That the Archbishop of Canterbury for the time being had been in tho habit of nominating persons to fill that office. That three per soda had bees nominated to get it in sucvssi.in, leaving a fresh nomination to be made wh en. of the three lives should fall in. Tint the late Dr. Howley did not All up the vacancy created by the death of Lord Canterbury, and the question he (Sir B. Hal) should esk. was whether the 'invent archbishop, taking advantage of the vacancy left sallied by his predecessor, had not filled up the 0610.1 by the appoints's% of Mr. Saincor, sot of the present Bishop of Winchester ? (Hear, hear ) EVICTIONS ON THE MARTIN ESTATES. Mr. T. M'CULLAGH asked the right hon. Secretary I for Ireland whether he had received soy information re- ' spewing extentive evictions by the mortgagees is possession ' of the Martin Estates, In the county of Gainey ? It had bees publicly stated, and private information which he hat revived smarmed the accuracy of the emu meat, that above 3,000 perms bad either been, or were about to loe,dispeseseed by the Low sad Life Imuranes Company; and the question be had to pet was, whether in his capacity of Chief Secretary for Ireland, or as a member of the poor-law commission in that country, the right hen. hareem had received say informs dos on the subject ? Sir W. SOMERVILLE bad revived so information which would enable him to make any statement to the home on the subject. SAVINGS BANKS. Oa the order of the day being read, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he rose to move Sir leave to bring in • bill to amend the laws relating to Devises banks, and for the purpose of investing the secretaryship sod direction in parties responsible to the commiseicosers for the reduction of the Rational debt. He was sorry that his own illneu and the pressure of public besieges had caused so much delay in the istroducti is of the hill, and he believed that he need not now make any apolcgy for bringing the matter before the house, because every one was aware of its importance and of the extreme difficulty of &sling with questions of this description. At the same time, it would be generally conceded that there was an imperative necessity for some further legislation on the subject. (Him, bear) Those who had recently timed that, sided= to the subject bad not approached it with • reedlestien of the mode in which the system had grown up Irem Mall b ginning' to its present immense amount. When they remembered that it was not mere than forty yecra sine' we int voluntary mewled in:was formed for 'eking deposits from the poor, and that now those deposits had reached the essrmoue sum of 28 millions, they could not feel surprised that sew legislation should be build necessary, or that the system which was applicable to these deposits in their infancy should set be found to answer when they had ?embed their present gigantic amount. Mueb of the noceesity for legislation arose from this dummied's*e done, but there was also in these, is be all voluntary aesociations, • festers which required rod doe. In the original tennation of each institutions, the seal of charitable individuals inclosed thus to give constant aced energetic esperintendeses, bet it did not *sun tent sesstant sad persevering attest/se which was absolutely seaman to the efficiency of the Methadon. (Hear, bear.) In point of feet, he was afraid Vest with tow 'impliese the practice was that no regular attendance was gives is melees' banks by the Weston, but the affein were left Ur toe much to the secretary or clerk, while no effectual cheek wee 'method by the thutees or manage e. He admitted that it was &Metal to phis" emeddence la seek persons as had in many plums bees entrusted with the goaded, of sayings' banks. He believed that is R Nehdais so penes could pose sib?, have horse • higher Manatee time the party who ultimately became defuthes, end be believed the same might be said of another of the moist cases, when the treeless gave their attendance •vveerryy epee day, bat where ell their vigilance was Mee t to prevent • system of freed having been carried on or several yeses. He had imam to think that is other establishments it was sot unusual for the trustees to sign cheques in blank, leaving every arrangement as to animist to the clerk. Now, the bill which he propmed to iatsedues was entirely • pro spective measure. He proposed, at a later period of the evening, to move the reappointai-st of the °osmium of lest session, the drat betimes of which would be to report ea the affairs of a bank in Dublin, but in t is proposed hi I be did nut intend to interfere with the past ; and, if he might be permitted to soak, • request, It would be that bon member, should not encumber future legislation with reference to past transit ions. It might be a proper subj. et for discussion either on going into committee or at some nature period, bat es this wen • dimmed= in which he felt that all sides of the home took a benevolent interest, be was anxious that everything should be avoided which was likely to disturb their unanimity. With regard, however, Is some claims which had bees pat forward in petitions, hie wished shortly to refer to the hiatcry and pro pels of these societies, because, whoa they referred to what took place la 1846, they seemed hardly to be swan what those societies bad been in their infancy, and bow they had gown up is the progress of time. It was sot meek meta they thirty years since these seetsgo beaks were first re mislead by legislatiou, sod It was little more Ikea forty Time sines their first establishment. He believed that the Stet was • benevolent institedoseelabliebed at Windom I. 1798; then them was one at Tottenham in 1804; one at Beth in 1808 ; and ass in Demfries in 1810. 8e that pre. view to 1810 there were not mere than half • doses indite lions is the whale beads* the character of the preset meim perhape, be led n cc , beak, to like It is any pertieulas. He kiseS t might hero, diatribe the Tottenham eetablislessent, whish =Who lakes as a fair specimen of the rue. At that plies six bessmiese Individuals undertook to receive deposits of small sums Item the working classes, for which they were to Day 6 mina interest ' each of the trustee, to be e=sible is din amount of 1001. When th e dep Ails tux 8001. esellese trustee was appointed. They invested the mosey se *bey pleased, and es successful wee this plan that by 18/7 se We then seventy similar insti tutions had been formed is Ragland, four is Wiles, and four io Ireland. La 1817 the ant legislation lea place, sad its whole object was to permit the moviess instate to invest the money in the public &add It meet be observed that me , rims to that period the trustees either employed the Imam la their owe transecticiss or invested it se they pleased, sad there was no security ter the depositees except the credit of the trustees. Is the year 1817 they were allowed for the fleet time to pled the mosey in the public funds ; that was to say, tits eovenment undertook to receive the deeiwita, to be reap astable for what they received, and to allow a certain rate of Lateran for it In 1824 ea act war passed Tendering it imp retire on the trustees to treassit loth. commissioners for the redoetkin of the national debt the whole amount of ' the delimits. From that time the the government became Impossible tor all ;de money trassinitted to them, bet toe seeking eds. A certain rate of interest was allowed, from whisk the trustees were to ' de duct the eapeasos of minagemest. In 18211 all the pre ceding mos wens menselidated in me, sad then it was pre scribed that lathe soles should be met to a tuniater ap• inputted far the purpose, and he was le certify that such riles mem is eisallermity with the est. Is the mond seethe of that set the trustees went exempted free liability except for their own act, or in case of gross wilful ambito or fraud. • clams was also Jet/educed permitting them to naive mew •••••••••-... - - by the semplspiernel b ran with. the esa i ll vested, r sum Misseemak‘ chi Aleseem-hat osmoses asses Ideinm-„_ . mie4pf4k!_.rn,isit... lib us/roc Vail si PoweeThdig the - item" ellik hsk yeirtlded that Ike HMIs AN •• 1 pay fa tka mOaay 4111” had meshed, tot tkat did see present the bank. eteehleg deposits, iginerely doted the emus' at *twee. tba lassess aad the erstmlealenese. He weld @amebas' re MM silk . regard to all ether mallets tbs. Mushose of mak =leek had a seimiste tionmel weir all malims ma with the beak, kiithig all the elleste, and the anaMiesiesers for the et the national debt having se . satherity to imertere. •Is point of foot, those beaks hasipg bees beta die lest voluntary moosistions eceileeted by preens she were soda,/ gracelessly, said for tho Waited W labouring dames, the prisciple %pm whisk the mimmiselosers had seta, - Sy to Ate Aroma, time, was to inewhee as lit& mapeseible, serer, is bet, esseet'wbell the traetem were acting la dhoti cestraveatioa of she law. I. the aura of dna eomidemble mils bed seism, sad the object of the bill was to remedy them es mush se pos able. The first epustios that had how raised in the retest slisineskins es skis subject, and in the various applicatioss to himself se chief sommioioser fce the reduction of the national debt was ea to the reepossibillty of the government and the trustees. It appeared to kint that the gnvernemat were only responsible for the seam trans. saitted to the sommissieners, aad were sot liable for the molest or mistemenes of any pasty. Its 1828 the esepeael bility of the trustees was manned to their owe eat, and In 1844 that wee remitted. He admitted that it was a guest defect in the law, bat he was-bensd to my that there wet ao liability as to what had takes plow sloes 1844. The gentleman who had applied to him lately on the subject messed to hive lost sight of the consideration that this banks were originally voluntary sasociations, sad only be-' ease subsequently tionneeted with the government by the latter waseenting to ready* the money and to honour their drafts. He would here remark that up to the last year. or two, there had bees se Meuse* of as application to make g ood any lose arising tram the failure of a meters beak. He found is seamy seviage benks In the country it was usual td appoint s neighbouring banker as the tees surer of the maims beak, sad one of the partners or a alert from the losal bank mmerally attended daring the hours for transacting brains. at the saving beaks, and re ceived the deposits. This practice under certala regulations be thought might be adopted with advantage in future, and he proposed to repeal the provision of the existing act, which ensetad that no treasurer of a savings bank should remits any malamute, and to have the appointment of that Mlles to the National Debt Cosamisioners ; and the mode by which' they should inertia this power. as he propoosd, would be by appointing some banker as the treasurer who should by himself or clerk attend and receive all modes deposited Is the saving banks—the receipt of di pole by any mbar pence at any other plow, or at other than the homes at which the savings bank treas.' acted its basin's, to be a misdemeanour, and the party es offending to be liable to a penalty accordingly. He believed almost all the losses which had occurred is savings hanks had been in cases where this actuary or secretary had received the limey at his own house, out of the banking boars, and when, in abort, the rules said regulations for the proper ma nagement of these bat.ki had been cootrevesed, and this, he well sang to say, had boon frequently done with the know ledge and cognistace, if not nigh the approval, of the trutess. A great object, therefore, was to check this prac tice, sad, with the view of doing so, he proposed, as he had said, to make it a 'misdemeanour is any officer of a stalls bank, except tka Immo, at Ida deik. to reign mosey from any perm es a illopoidt Is say 'avian beak. He be lieved there would be no regaled difficulty is this regula tion, for he found, on inquiry, that there were but few towns in England where there wm net local banks established, or, et all events, where there were net banks within a very short distance. He reposed that security should be gin* by the treasurer to the ceminimiolierr of the national debt, and reserving to themselves the plisse of anpointen-nt, and haying takes met security, the g , vernment would be responsible for all the money paid to the treasurer. (Hear, hear.) In fu'um. the course wosid be, that a pima paying money into say savings bank would pay it into the heads of the treasurer appoisted by the gov..roment or his clerk, and the government would then become r erosible for the amount. He pr.ipored to repeal the clangs of the act 011844, which did away with the responsibility of the trustees. For, as the treasurer would have the appointment et the clerk, or other officer who would act for him, and as tie govern. meet was responsible to the public, it was necessary that the trewurer shoull be made responsible to them. The first clause of the bill would provide that a treasurer should be appointed whose duty it should be to attend during the busioesi hours of the savings bank, and receive and pay ell .rules, and that an account should be sent up by him to the c immissicners of the national debt, day by day, so that them would not be that Uttered a • io n h or sin weeks which now occurred before the accounts were returned and examined. The next question he should deal with was the auditing of the account.. This was un doubtedly • question of 'moms difficulty. The only audit which could afford anything like a p. rfect check was a comparison of the whole of the depositors' passbooks with the bank ledger. Generally sp, eking, no doubt it would be sufficient if • large proportion of the pus-books were corn. pared with the ledger; but the only complete check was a comparison of the wh-ale. He resseavred, when preparing a measure with regard to Ireland, it wes said that it was impossible for any such general comparison tu be mole, inasmuch as the passbooks could not be all got together; but he found on in quiry that there was no such greet Afficulty in the matter. He had been asked what he would do in the cue of seaports when the savings banks depoiters ware frequently away from the matey. He admitted that in such cues they Gould not expect to get all the passbooks, but he thought they might obtain so loge • number of them as wand afford a comparison that should be satisfactory, as securing them against any large amount of fraud. In the case of tee Cork savings bask, which was a very well man 'wed establishment, at the auditing of the aecounts, 6,823 puebooks had been sent is, 1,164 only being withheld. Thus more than ri se sevenths of the pambooks were ievestigated and compared with the ledger, and no error being timed in them, there was a reasonable probability that the others were equally correct. Another case which he would refer to, as showing that the dif fi culty was not so great as had been apprehended was that of Portsmouth. There, oat of 4 235 book,, 3.753 had been sent in for e ansination. A practice prevailed in the Leeds, II outlay, sad some other savings bank, which, though ha did net mean to make matter of legiriaties, might be , adopted with benefit in other cues—he alluded to the prec uce of publishing annual sec eats. (LI ar, hear.) He held in his hand the last account of the li.r.sley saviaim bark, which contained a table showing the number of each deposi tors' hug with the amount to his credit at the savings bank— by ibis means, without having hie name dialoged, the depo sitor could cluck the bask amounts by a comparison with his own passbook, so far as his own account war concerned. (Hear, hear.) This was a practice which had been attended with good resuita, sad one that he recommended to the consideration of all savings banks. He proposed, in addl tien to this audit, that an auditor sbould be appointed by the trustees, as was the cue in 'friend, where the trustees ap pointed nue of their own body to audit the acesents; and be also proposed to give power to the commierionen of the oatmeal debt to geed an inspector to examine the books of the bank. and to swortale the numberot passbooks that might be brought in. The object of the next class we, to provide against any further loss seeming to the country on etcouat of savings banks. He alloyed those who took part in the original legislation on this subject would bear him out in the truth of the statement, that it never was intended that any lose should fall on the government in consequence of the commissioners allowing for rime deposits a higher rate of interest titan the funds produced. The commissioatin for the national debt received the money from these banks, they ii.vested it is the fends, receiving • Derma :ate of interest, but, practi ally, they have bees allowing to the depositor • tarter. amount of interest than they have bees tkerneelves receiving. The rate of interest allowed in 1817, when the first savings bank at was paned, was 41. Hs. 3d. per cent., in 1828 it was 31. 18e and in 1844 it was 31 6e. • but the consequenee of this had been that • great lag hei resulted to the government. la like manner a bas had been entailed on the government by the necessity under which they perpetually labour of repaying to the depositor the precise sum he bad deposited. If it happened that the investment* was made while the funds were at 9514 for instance, and to meet the demand of the depositors for repayment, the government had to sell out when the feuds were at 801., it was obvious that they must bee 161. upon every 951. invested, therefore, at preseat, they were liable to both leas on the capital and lees on the ham& He believed it had been proposed by an Ms. friend of hie (Mr. Hums) that the government 'Maid at as • broker to invest small sass for poor paeans In the same way as the ordinary stock brokers Invest larger wars fee more wealthy parties. This would entail on the poor depo sitor the loss arising from the fleeteatiou of the fends, sad, as he understood, the great object with them was the certainty of getting bock the amount they depo- sited. (11687,118er.) They del not look se muck at the rate of interest as to the getting bask the amount they at& sited, and it would be a source of complaint against these leatitatioas and tend materially to limit the number of dos paragon If thine who seed them as a place of security fa their savings were liable to have the amount ite Hair de posits diminished by the fluctaatiou Is the woke of the public securities. lie did not therefore yews. to alter the casting law in this respect, bat he peggeeed limit the amount to be deposited, and for this roam rot he did pot think it riffht to ex sad to the larger daysellew lobe used three banks for his convenience until he oestg laved his mosey more profitably in some wher way tint poets,. ties whisk the smaller depositor was entitled to. (Hear.) It was remarkable how the larger delimiters availed them solve, at certain times when the funds ruled lew of the right of withdrawing from the saving bake the same amount as they had paid in, as compared with the eingil,g depositors. He found that In November, 1848 mad 1847,, when the funds ' were extremely low the total number of savings banks dop► alters decreased to the extent of 12,000, but the decrease had been la depositors to a large amount, the smaller depsidttee hale, lemma during the same time. The beyallate above 201, who had withdraw* their depralls thels. rat period amounted to 24,000, while there bad ban es ktwaee meet with a hew le hair 'enema Geis the 4INSIIIIIM. 60 be lavesowl is what way soh Ileew l Ww• mph& ea ire* nee of ether amiss es night eeew. I . 1144 he heeeet of &pod whisk Mt ewe takes out of the vowel the oweishe perehwely Mee %olio's* wee named by wit. . 1016 1 the weirs of the mew awe kept La the Imam were usenet hen en liabilite. It 4 11 4410 a• a stay, the opals thees bowed week* thee. the he whele pewee of the peehmeat, ea Tahoe el •he hog wee c.,. &Me weary he kit se I • . so t. 4, ~,,914„,, NS es soh a weeelat ' • ) 1 . h t to - ushetweete 'Th - that la with theiir• r Qs Mies. MA . 7. 4 ' tat iis Y ' ea= le salt t 11 4 10slipi a ri i..m. . 0 . ll . ill l / 4 k , . eh ea it 1116,011 MI he hheal * DOWS . h '5 ra:Si balk 10 abate_ aity led wr theft sad to invest I. Atha " "WS". ape- Wog is dm eft Mehl* roam MI WI wohat et ehereseent el the Uaite4 See" MOW deposits were hemmealetedi 1111 hew shhoweh tidy mead hew —---5......i.a....... ear hiwoomelerlieholow.ebeeoweeeesie who hea& THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL SO, 1850. a the smaller of LI,OOO. (Hear, hair.) _Then be se kit mow SC IM soke hod widsdetswn Yid • k the leads at es s* _*.w Ptah It '''"? Hal t asbegeer) amid net dtlak lit * the • be put Me • ocosikeehis a I. ' seek °pastime . Het • IA • ~„,• )1 ' is the la sate. ' future le' bea r ; 4 .' 4 by away to gem • keit se, still • t, •oa the whisk hes' • 00 Iblit/f 1" beat limit te ie. Hi however, hr te hi r a t yle is say eta isolated itinii- 41 ;_ give to tip es eneitaaity If he eisaileffelehi .l wel ow money is hak e sod be wait mill 110 Mr 0118 that wheel the deposit aseemiled to 1110 L the laberest r- AVER, geese. (Hear.) Bat Heim Awe, they (the yam mosottoreeidinamthe many *sobs tweets, nether** 0 t =e d i Irthrltee ll = f ine d tbr i ii t iari Tt u: Abi• tea r° l l lWier t• e trellge ?saes In of 1111. ; • Ilia ? Wonald be " II " ,verted has sad subjemt to Iberia ad fall of the leafs as other Of agree, if the depositor chose to fin eft diftelitkg three mild be no obleetioss; but when ever the saimateasie to 1001., it would he_ gain isvested. Noll.lb• seared* whishtley bad had to deal is reference to JAMS savings bake were of no trififag satonat. The Owls alenuat of behead naiad ca ass mat of divides& for soviets beaks deposits, by the essansieriowirs of the ma. Haat kb sines the artabliehmout of these institutions is 1817, had been 18,043,0001 s the total amount paid and waited to the depositors had been 20,45.5 00014 being • different, of arras& of 2,000,0001. At . this pretest moment the lateral receivable from the lands on wawa of these deposits was less that that which was due to the deptelton by 42,0701.0 year. This wee the yearly lees' the country ,wes aufferieg bowl these Haase" dons. (Hear, hear.) He proposed to redoes the rate of interest paid by the government am this. deposits from 31. be to 31. per cent, and to redoes the rate allowed by the settees banks to their depositors from 21. lk 44., which it was now, to 21. lbs. This would OCCIWOO a very small diminution a the depositors--iris.. 3s. 4d. in the 1001: The anima Ices to the depeatar of 101. (Foetid be 4d. a year ; to the depositor of 201., 8.1. a year ; of 601., ls. Bd. ; sad of 1001., as la hod said, as. 4d. a year. This would be the intent of the-annual lam to the depositor. It would be seen then that:the loss to the depositors individually would be vary trifling, indeed, while the country would he relieved from a very heavy lose, sad the mamas would be afforded of providing for the payment of the treasurer es well as tor the expenses of maaarassent. His proposition geserally wee that treasurer thread be appointed by the government, whosiseuld take all mangy and pay all moneys; that the deposits should be limited to 1001., and that the Letterset paid by the government should be reduced fame 31. be. to 31, per cont., end that paid to the depositor@ from 21. 18s. 4d. to 21. lbs. lie mow came to the question of Handy societies, and with regard to them he pro posed to onset that no further monies should he in vested by Ham direct to the owamissiosers for the reduction of the national debt, accept so much as might have been re ceived previnue to the purring of the act for regulating friendly aseaciatioa. At present no new society could invest, incept at savings bank isterese, but the older social, s were not eo coofintel, and there was • less to the public In eons.- q of 20.0001. • year, and as • trustee, the investment being in all such cams required to be in the name of the child, who, when of sufficient age, would be allowed to with draw it. There was coo only other provision to which he would call attention—that wee an 'vended power of grant ing annuities, a matter to which his h..u. friend the somber fir Stroud, and other bon. aentlemen, attached much int ' portant*. (Hear, hear.) At present, under the act of 1833, a pavan might purchase ma annuity of not less than 41. by instalments, and if the payments were not kept ug, or the party died before the annuity commented, the matey paid was returned. To cover this contingency, the rate of premium was So high, that no great number of annuities had been granted. Ho did not propose to inoofer• with the regulations as to existing autunite, but to give • power to purchase annuities in future under other conditions. In the now 'acuities he did not propose to give • power to purchase by instalments, but to counteract that he proposed to reduce the amount of the lowest antauify which might be purchased to 11. The mode in which this would work would be that the party desiring to perches* would accumulate in the raving* bask a sum of money sufficient to purchase the annuity of 11, which purchase would be • complete transac. Linn—the sum would be paid down at once, and the annuity of 11. • year would commence, and the party might go on accumulating money in the s hangs book until he bad Duel cient to purchase another annuity of 11., and so on in like manner to 301. This would enable ennuives to be purchased without any risk on either ed• Leather matter had been pressed upon his attention, which for some time he had thought it impossible to effect— vie , that of providing for the payment of • suss of money at death. That was, if • person wished to provide • sum to be paid to his family at his death, he should be enabled to do so; and to prevent the risk to the government of insuring bad lives in this way, it hail been suggested th .t when a party purchased the right to the payment of • sum of money to his family at his death, he should be obliged to purchase a deferred annuity on his own or some other gad life. He proposed to insure the government against lora in this palladia. He also proposed that if the party chose to pro- vide an annuity for his wife or children, he should be at liberty to do so, and that the tame should be payable at the time of his death. (Hear, hear.) There were some °thee provisions of no great importance to which he would not now advert, because the bill would be before the house, and he would be happy at any future stage to afford such inform.- tion IS might he required on all its wine.. He hoped he had in • great measure obviated all difficulties, and renuered the measure efficient. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME ciliated the pest oonnexicn of the govern meat with the savings barks as bang a delusion. The at puckers were not secured from fraud, and yet the public suffered from very considerable losses, arena from the expenses of management and the depreciation of the funds. Trio bon. member proceeded to criteria various details of the proposed ateasere, and objected io particular to the introduction of a large branch of lit* assurance, business which it app•ared to contemplate. Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY showed that in former years as enormous number of buying and selling transactions had taken place with the savings bank funds in Consols sod Exahrquer bills, which were apparently undertaken to serve some goverment purpose, but bad resulted in a loss of two millions upon the total accounts. He icquired whether any check was to be provided in future agatost • repetition of thee minim. stock-johhing. Mr. 8. CRAWFORD complained that no hope of reeitu• tion was held out to his unfortunate constituents of Rochdale of the large mime lost through the dishonesty of the savings bank actuary. The depositors bad been deluded by the semblance of a double responsibility, first from the trustees, and secondly from the government, both of which had tuned out tenacious. Me. FAGAN also argued the pant in the interest of the depositors, who, he alleged, bad committed their savings, as they believed, to the safe keeping of an institution for whose solvency the government had made themselves 'Tsible. r ' OROOAN followed on the same aide. Mr. BLANEY regretted that the amount of interest al lowed upon deposits had ,beem reduced. As one of the ra pping public, he should hays beta willing to stand the rick .of the loss for the asks of affording to the bumbler depositors il better remuneration for their savings. His objection ex tended also to the narrower limitation now proposed for the eamtimus of deposit allowed to any individual in the 'eviler brake. Sir J. JOHNSTONE appealed to the government on behalf of the depositors in the Scarborough savings back. Mr. H. HERBERT made some general observations upon the foregone administration of the savings banks. Hs con. tended that the government were morally and legally re. @possible kr the money last to the depositors through the dis honesty of the refinish, and complained that he had bee& " does " by the Clutacellor of toe Euehequer, in Machos to the appointment of Oa original committee on swinge banks, and that government hai done all it could to prevent. lever,. Ho dwelt upon the negligence of the National Debt Commiesionere, who, to his own knowledge, pared are counts abounding with gross errors, sad upon the incapacity of Mr. Tidd Pratt, who had been proved in a court of low ties not to understand the law under which he acted. What, he asked, was the use of preaching economy to the poor, when they were to see the earnings of years swept h ape. tasty away by official fraud ? In ref to toe Irish cam, as they had already beta completely made out, he saw no use in the inquiry of the proposed committee. Mr. SAHEBS wished that the government interference for the pr 'action of the depositors had bad offered sooner. Col. THOMPSON laid the claim of the defrauded deposi tors as against the country, rather than the government and toasted that the country would not compiaia it called upon to repay the Ina. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied. He of to allow the savings banks deposits to be vested at pleasure in Exchequer bias, ea the prineiple that any increase a the floating debt wee impolitic. As to the comes of default, the ormamittai eppoiated last sesame would be revived, in order to receive the report drawn up upon the sulject ; and until then any opinion toughie, the liability of the govern. ment would be premature. Leave wee then given to bring is the bill. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL. Sir G. GREY, in moving the micoad reading of the He closiutical Commimion Ball, said that it would he necessary for him to make a short statement to the house of its &leek, sad the main provisions which it contained. In 1847 • select committee was appointed to inquire Harr the composition and management of the ecclesiastical cemmiesion far Ragland and Weiss. That sommittee, which was appointed at • late period of the semien took some ',Worm.), but did not report their opinion to the house. The com mittee was reappointed in the session of 1848—they took a great deal of additional evidence—and in August of that year they made the present report. That re poet, after referrieg to the coign of the cede asetioal commission, proceeded to state what the first permanent ecclesiastical commission was, and that a groat change was made in its composition in 1840, when the number of commissioners wee increased from thirteen to forty-nine, consisting of the two archbishops, five me ethers of the government, all the bishops of England and Wales, three deans, six common law and ecoleseistioal judge., and eight permanent lay commissioners, six of wh oa were eppointal by the crown, and two by the Archbishop of Canterbury. The report, after adhering to ulna points COSISOCSOd with the composition of the commission, went en to say that evident* had been takers of the actual working of the commission thus composed; and it was found that it was liable to objection—that it was UM large for the convenient Hamada of basieess—that the re sporasibility was too much divided—that the attenteace was untertaic--and that, coosopeently, there was • difficulty in preserving the timid of business. and a larger share of re sponsibility tell upon the of of the commission than should be the MM. la eomesqueaes of these that the objeetless, the ..et tbe cosamisaillPrabasabe p Ilfileio. of duties should take place— r`aaglisea I kea . eldasiasthig t proper "l"l :7 4 . l 814614 The isout ha ss ie"- ittee z%rsidol that seer* Ansa be tine body who would *.souls 'important questions Minting the M unn' of the chunk; and tint there should be soother, sad • Miran Mmutitten, to manage the property of the Gout wisdoms. They rummaged that there should be three • gemodebosers—two ed them to be sominatod by the Mae NA nut by the Juddishop of Canterbury. They that heir mashes *Maid constitute a quorum for aaaagamsat 01 the and that the presence of 4sast *el* esemmhe diould be necessary for this ✓upose. mrs - weft dle - Snell tososemendatioss of the missaities. Her /talitety's govensamst agreed with the re port of the Nutt** that the present compoition of the IMO iudavoursida to the MY of tho .11 IPP WMI lt il oIr g rOgso 0 2 1 fOstoth to them; blifs kir Sal -AO he ,ou gamut anderralso in , the , mint the groat find *portent batiks whlek through the agony of the commission, had bees **alerted on the country . by augoosting t he number if churches, and Miklos bettor Nubian for the gars of souls and the spiritual &Mita** of the people. Mar Majesty's govern. moat ogresed with the committee that it wee &stratus there should be • arse undivided and direct responsibility ha the masispaavat of • great portion of the tisanes which eel devolved ca the commissioners. The present bill, burefere, was eseeatislly founded on the nommen. lotions of the .oriminitters, though in minor details there might be some diffenter: The main recom laudation of the cosuaitue wee that which related to the division of the present commission, with a larger body fur the consideration of grave interests affeciing the church, and &smaller simusattee appointed for the management of the proposty. Some doubt had arises se to the naming of the wobt " sommittao," bat till he had hoard the doubt suggested some tiro* ago, it would never have struck him that this ersamittee was to be anything elm than &committee of the general body. It was not to have a separate eziettorm from the general body, but was to be a committee of the bey body. That view of the qaestion was un armed by the paragraph of the report which proposed that tour mambas should form • quorum, but that for this new pose the presence of a paid cominissioaer should be seas eery. The bill proposed to create • small committee to be called the estates eoesaittee, whine duties were defined in the Ito clause. They would have "to consider all matters is any way relating or noisiest to the sale, purchase, exchange, letting, or management , by or en behalf of the Ecclesiastical Conunimionen for Ragland, of any lands, tithes, or horedita. meats, and to devise such measures touching the same as I. hall appear to such committee to be most expedient, and to report fully thereupon to the said Ecclesiastical Commissioners ia writing under the hands of three members of such C 0... mittoe, of whom two or more shall be church estates com missioners." By the 10th clause it was provided " that the said ecclesiastical commiseioners at any time and from time to time may refer any other matters to the consideration of the said estates committee, or by an instrument under the common seal may authorise the said committee, or the said church estates commissioners, or any two of such coot missies's, to do and complete any act within the power of the said ecclesiastical commissioners, except affixing the said common seal to any instrument, without reporting or rogueing fur her instructions from the said ecclesiastical commissioners." It was also proposed in the bill, in accord ance with the rieommudation of the committee, to appoint those commissioners, who should be called church 'states commissioners ; two of them to he eppointed by the Crown, and the third by the Archbishv of Canterbury. Of these 3 it was proposed that the first cognesiesiosser, to be appointed by the crown, should receive a salary not exceeding 12001. a-year, and that the commissioner appointed by the archbishop should receive • salary of 1,0001. a year. I3otS were yr be paid out of the funds of the commiwioners. These church estates commissioners were to form an essential part of the estates committee, of which they were to be perm members. But it wee proposed to give power to the stela nautical commissioners et the commencement of every year, or from year to year, to add two of their own number to these three, one of whom at least should be a layman. It was further proposed that the first estates comecissiocer should preside at all the meetings of the 'states committee, or in his absence one of the other church estates commissioners. It is proposed that of these three should form a quorum of the estates committee, of wcoca two at least must be church estates commissioners, and then two must concur in and logo every report of the estates committee. I: was provided that two of the church estates commissinners must be present at every meeting of the ecalesiestieal com missioners. There were two poetical .rs in woich the bill differed from the recommendation of the committee. The committee recommended that the three commnsionirs should be paid. But in the present bill it war proposed that only two of them should receive salaries, because it was thougnt desirable to encroach as little as p *giblet on the funds of the ecclesiastical CoolllliNilollf4 ; and it was believed that, in the first instance, at least, a person might be found to dis charge the duties of the third commissioner, who woula not require any palely is resprct of the duties he might render as one of the church estates e mmiesioners. But if there was any objection to this part of the bill i: could be urged more properly in committee than in the pre sent stage. Toe other point in which the bill differed from the recommendstiens of the committee was this—that the bill required the presence of the two paid commissioners logical of one, in order to constitute a quorum. The ob jest of this change was to insure a more direct resp .nsibi lity in those who were entrusted will the management ot the . . , property of the commissioners . The decision of the estates committee is not to be final ; they were not to decide any questions referred to them, but were to refer them to the lull hoard, who, he bad no doubt, would pay every attentirot to the recommendations and euggestiens which they received from the committee. He anticipated that the recommenda tions of that committee, contiltring tie manner in which :t was to be cumposi d, would be entitled to so much weight, that they would not be overruled by the general boJy. There was also • provision of • minor nature re lating to the mode of appointing a chairman. The bill provided for the sepiration of the office of treasurer and secretary, and experience confirmed th wisdom of that recommendation, for he thought that the defalcations of the late secretary could not have occurred —at least, could not have taken place wi,h so much facility, and such little chance of detection, if he bad not combined the office of treasurer and secretary in his own person. (lieu.) It was new proposed to impose the duty et treasurer on the two paid church estates commmis,ioners. These were the main previsions of the bill with regard to the composition and management of the commission. There were other provisions in the bill of great importance, which were rot contained in the recommendations of the committee. The first was that which enabled the ecelesi swivel commissioners to fix the value of the incomes of the archbishops and bishops appointed after the Ist of Janusrv, 1848. It was considered very desirable that they should have fixed instead of fluctuating annual incomes, a as to remove the uncertainty which existed under the present system. Then was also a clause in the bill, as originally introduced, the object of which was to consolidate the episcopal and common funds, so as to render the joint fund available for all purposes which might conduce to the e ciency of the church. (Hear, hear.) An important alters Lion was made in this Clause in the Hours of Is irds, into the particulars of which he would not then advert. Bat he might state that it was the intention of the government to give notice in committee of a clause as a sub stitute fur the one introduced into the bill by the House of Lords with regard to these two funds, and which would be in substance similar to the one which the bill originally contained. (Hear, hear ) With regard to deaneries, a clause was introduced into the bill to settle a doubt which had arises with regard to the amount of endowments and mutmentatiets which the ecclesiastical commissioners were at liberty to make in dean eries, under what was technically called the old foundation. Before the time et Henry VIII. the deans had separate estates attached to the deaneries, which were transferred to the ecclesiastical commissioners, who were subsequently em powered by law to increase the incomes of deans to 1,0001. per annum, which was the limitation. However, that mu thought not to apply to deaneries on the old foundation; and it was under these oircumstances that the Deans of Wells end Salisbury were appointed at incomes of 1,5001. per an num. Subsequently to their acceptance of the deaneries, a cue arose, in the course of the legal investiaation of which it appeared that the eeclesiutical commissioners did not possess the power to increase incomes to 1,5001., and that an income of 1,0001. • year applied to deans appointed under the new as well as under the old foundation. Under these circumstances her Majesty's government . _ consented to introduce a clause into tie bill * whisk all doubt was removed. The clause effected a material alter. ation in the bill : it was introduced In the House of LosJe, and Linehan the incomes of all deaneries, with the exception of York, to 1,0001. a year. Now under these circumstances he begged to give notice of bis intention to introduce a clause which would have the effect of restoring the bill to the state in which it was previous to going into the House of Lords. The Deanery of Salisbury became vac tat by the death of the incumbent dean, and the exception was intended to apply to the deanery of Wells. He should also state it was the intention of her Majesty's government to propose another clause in referee'. to dears who were compelled to reside eight months in every twelve in their deaneries, and whose cure of souls did not exceed the limits of their deaneries lg more than three miles. (Haar, hear.) Mr. HORSMA said the ball which the right hen. gentle man had quoted from, and moved the second reading of, was an extremely important *se. Whim they considered the nature of the commission and the drags likely to follow from its good or bad administration, be was certain there were few measures brought before the house this session that, in the eyes of those who felt the church was worthy of being preserved, were of such importance. (Hear, hear.) The easunre was introduced by her Majesty's government, who, it would seem, had made great concessions toconcillate forbearance, but which concessions, however, did not accJm pliag their purpose. (Hear, hear.) The worst provisions of the bill they before them were inserted in the House of Lords; whilst the best were compromised on the part of the government, with a view to avoid opposition. For himself he should say he did not feel that fur the hill in its present shale the government were responsible any more than a god father was responsible for the features of a very ugly child. (" Hear, hear," and laught . r.) They had charged them &Av.@ with its paternity ; but yet it was not their own. (Hear, bear.) The episcopal commiesion had long sines been condemned by general opinlon—(heer hear)—and the bill then before the house was the amount of concession which the bishops were prepared to make—not in the shape of a goveremmt bill, but as the best, under all the eircumatenews of the case, which they felt could De tarried. N .w what were the defects of the commission, as also the improvements sought to be made? lie would refer to the sioseah of the right hon. gentleman himself, in which he (Sir G. Grey) &depleted that the first defect of the commission consisted in Is great sine. (Hear, bear.) The sionunimeon, originally consisting of 13, was enlarged to 49; theretem. nothing could be mere true than that it was cen reeiee Well, a bill was istrodued to remedy that but tae slow cif that bill did not teach the evil at all, (li es , hear.) Whilst the 49 members wen retained, thr ee ed — de Meal were added; so that the first improvem ent to be made is the commission was to alter the another fro m 49 to 62, though 49 Were found to be already too many (Hear, bur.) That osrtaicly was not • successful a ttem pt - • at improvement (Hear, hear.) The sec on d detect esse, that the commission was composed of bishops and digui ' of the aura, who had other important functions to die, charge, sod which they could not neglect to the prefer masee se the dean amigned them by the commission. (ye howhestM s ll l a tl overco n a r I s d u tr e i t • & Rea et a board dbr : y ieb a eet board a remainedtre.re b li 1" : 4 , bw t 18 ( 1 0 7 1 e el 411 i red it r anra' confessedly inefficcogleeinttposnle:rialrghragetthnietir:imak:e.sci. . He sow begged to call attention to the ' ou t of the bill, which established two paid comm ameeo. atedeitah appoeitatent was regarded as the great boon see cloweession of the measure. But let them examine th e ee h t . of that concession of the appointment of two g.ndere en , which should be taken in coanesion with the report of the c. (tr ai sar, t h tim ear to .) wThich the hat m ri i g t h ta t e b w o as o• of friendly feeling towards the commeriotiers, inmentich as five bad been ecclesiastical commissioners, and two cabinet minister.. (Hear, hear j Therefore it was impouible to doubt that any conclusions at which that committee had ir. rived, and which were unfavourable to the eotonmeion se it then stood, were come to after grave and gerious deliberation, and that the alterations prepooei emanated from a stroveg sense of their absolute necessity. (H. ar, hear.) The paid commissioners were reduced to two, one of whom wee to be nominated by the Archbishop of Canterbury, and removable at his pleasure; however, the archbishops and the whole bench of bishops remained, kitties es members of the board. Now if the whole bench had retired they could very well understand their (the bishop') leaving behind them the commissioners; but they remaitierf—and that wee the commission that was to benefit the public. (Hear, hear.) The public were represented by one cemmissioner, whose efficiency was neutral sod by the episcopal commis. 'tonere, who had the whole bench of bishop% at their back, (Hear, hear) Now what did the public care for such mere nominal control? (Hear, hear.) The sixth clause of the bill established an Estate Committee ; and they had been told how the Estate Committee had been composed, namely, two members appointed by the crown, and three by the teethe; commissioners.ln the case of the two appointed by the crown, only one was pail, a layman ; and they all knew that a paid layman became a mere honorary member of the bread, without ti spoosibility. So that if they had the public re presented by one paid commissioner, and three teem the bench of bishops, the result would easily be seen (Hear, hear.) Now, one would imagine that in such • case the ascendancy of the episcopacy was sufficiently scour. d • but an after clause gave them • still greater ascendancy (Hear, bear.) The public representative was in a minority co one ts three ; and if the nominal responaib ley were Cast upon him the real power remained in the heeds of 'he episcopal section of the commission. (Hear, hear ) Therrti re, he thought he was justified in saying the measure was conceived in a wrong spirit; and if they wi s h e d to examine 'het spirit farther they wed only refer to the 14th cause, which mere said the in c ene of seven Crane. (Rear, hear.) It proposed the augmentation of the income of the Dean et York to 2,0001., are those of the other six dears to 1,5001. per annum. (Hear, hear.) He wished to k, ow what sue • measure as the present should have to do with incressieg the incomes of deans or other dignitaries? (Hear, hear.) What was the result of these provisions ? The perLamen . 1810 reduced the incomes of deans to 1,0001. per year ; hit the impertant eigeovery Pad since been merle, that a d. anery with only 1.0001. a year attached to it would go .-benzine throug h , he church, and so the income was increased. (clear, hear.) Did any person suppose that, the income of these deans having been increas ed to 1,4091. • year, an augmentation of the int .M'a of el the others would not follow ? (Hear, hear.) Why sr. .told the Dean of Rich este r starve on 1,0001. a ye o, whist his brethren in the ministry—not Letter deserving than himself —were in receipt of 1,5001. • year? (Hear, beer.) The measure was, tumor., impertec' in details, as well as mistaken in spirit; and it called upon to say whether the house ought to ad:pt or reject it, be would erepeaticelly advise its rejection. (Hear, hear.) However, the bee, by obvious amendments, was capable of improvement. First, as regarded the carrying out of the recommendation of the committee, in reference to the appointment of three paid commissioners ; ar,d he should sty he never heard anything so lame and untenable as the objection of the cli siastical commissioners to that appeintm. nt. ( Hear, hear.) They seemed to base lo en struck all at once with a sudden regard for economy, and urged in consequence that they could not ell rd tuck an outlay. ( hear.) Now, ito 'ender • regard for the fu• do of the church looked very odd coming from eentletnea who for m.ny years spent thousands iu augmenting the incomes of deans and other dignitaries, sad who. though they were no doubt prepared to expend sone 14,009 e in again au.menting th. seine mes, yet, such was their .ta:e of poverty, they could not aff o rd to pay a few commie. nets ,OM. a year. (Hear, hear.) Their suspicion" were tar tiler excited as they proceedeu, and found the arplication of the parsimenioas principle "till carried nn, notwithstanding that waste without parallel was going on in the pub lic outlay. (Hear, Lear) Lle would neat proceed to ley before the house the system of *dation. tion, not alone uedir the board cf ealesiestieel commisitieners, but in other boards over which they presided established for a hke purpose. (Hear, hear.) There were two boards neer wh ch the commiseioners preseed, the " Church Building 13)ard," and the board tor the control of " Queen Anne's Bounty." (Hear, hear) Now, let him proceed to seow how, if the ValatliCtiOttra were desirous of carrying out economic principles for the benefit of the nods of tee church, they could improve those tunes and ,Erect a saving in the outlay. (Hear, hear.) Tee buildit c enmis sion conferee' of 41 members, headed by two arce.iebope, I bishops, statesmen, and other tuna e :m.4,s and the duty of that commission wig nom-eh t similar to the du'y devolving on the ecclesiastical ceintuission—b tilde tog churches, and so forth. Though the commis sion consisted of iorty.one members, yet they had it from the secretary, that the pretty cumber be ing dignitaries, not having time to devote to the duties of the commission, their meetings were few tied rare. (Hear, hear ) The duty therefore fell into the buds of the bishop, and from them desc.nded to the seen tery, ant the . flees of secretary ard treasurer being invariably united, the secretary was there'ore the whole cote:meet ‘n. (Ray, hear.) Such being the couritution of tb • h teed, he would next come to its fleeces'. (Hear, hear.) Until .ight years gee there had not been au audit established; and be would then mention two facts that he thought w. led surprise the house. To each commission there was appointed a secretary at 7001. • year, and a surveyor at 7001. a tear also, with bead clerks, copying clerk. , mess, niters, and law expense. sane:int im to some 4,0001 pi r annum. New whit.' the *eerie ix. proses of the commission amounted cis.: m. 4,001 1 1. per a.b out. what was the amount of the funds to he a.loneeteree? (Hear, bear.) When evidence was adduced het et the com mittee which irquired into the cue, the wh tun's in the hands of the c mmissien amounted to 12,0001. There bad been originally • grant of a million in the year bee, and of half a million in 1311: but the wh le era. 1-x11'1,144 . %apt some 12,0001, which was all that remained in the hands of toe commission to be at:ministered. Hirer, hear 1 There was owing is the commisecies a sum or about 'ONO:. hut fee the adminetration of 12,0001. en estuh:iahment of 4.0001. was kept up ; aed, nit aly that, but in the year he cue Ussion expired a new act was brought in, continuing the commission for five years loopy. Oa a former occasion he had shown that the tunes of the eCCltlialitCtl commwwa were Jett entirely in the hands of the secretary, that them war no audit, and no check. That was not the cue with the Queen Anne's bounty; but the house would se: why. The secretory said he received all th. merger., eta the first fruits, and tenths, but he always sent one of the clerks with the money received by him to Court: a, holey made it a rule from his first entrance upon orti v never to keep • shilling in hand. Could there be a more cutting retake of the carelessness of the commiesioners than thus answer of their own secretary ? (ileac.)The sole cheek was their having had the good fortune to find • secretary of high integrity. The expense of the guns Acne's Bounty was very cos-tier able. The secretary and treasurer totem d as such 1.0001. a year, and 3501, as tl.e receiver of first fruits; there w.s • clerk at 4'41. • year, and another at 1001 ; and altogether the expenses of the office amounted to more than 4.000:. • year. The secretary summed up by saying that the fund for th. capital took nearly half that amount. He asked era -te..by &slog that a tuhgem expenses tati i of o f s smell livings management w an as d 4 Ot accumulatede yea but whether economy would not ho much pr. nu h one board instead of 'three? The bishops who could not afford to pay 1001. a year for a paid commis sioner, could throw away 3,000 i • year by the non consolidation of the boards, lie thought he bed shown that the alleged improvement in the composition of the commis ion was altogether a fallacy and a delusion. The unpaid commissioners still oontioued upon it, and the paid commissioners were starving. But if the beard did not do what it professed to do, he would now show how murk it failed of what it ought to do. This brought him to the first great defect of the whole commission. Now he would see the house a questios, and he begged hon. gentlemen not to meow themeelv.s to be "tattled by its novelly. This was I commission for the administration of temporal affairs. Ho asked why should there be any ecclesiastie upon it ? (Hear, hear.) Why should minietrs et state, judges, and bishops, be present at its sittings any more than at thise of the Board of Admiralty or of sup other department. The proceedings of the e. tumilieton were entirely secular ;as much sou those of the Home' Office and from the commencement it had issued 500 orders to council. not one of which had to do with attain which myths not tall o ns t o „c re ct a ma ppro u p ck na s te o l me y u h nd an er . g th en o t a le d ia m e i n aitea d. ti h on e co l knew, n than h i et the church ought to guard tts own pnwerty. But what was the church ? The church was not the bishops, the ceirch was the laity—it was the laity that composed its members. its lire, and its strength. The property of the church a11P1.11.17 as safe in the hands of devout lumen as f devout ecclesiastics. Against whom was church propeey to euarded ? The church had been plundered at various periods of her history. She was plundered by moose:hi first, by nobles afterwards; in the last century by h i r bebo p , in our own times by ecclesiastical write/Wei-lire'. (Laughter ) But the people of this country hail ever beenes of sacrilege ; and if • storm wets to "riser at One musette, the safety of the church would cement in the h..e and reverence of the people fur the instituti •a, and net the accident of a bench of bishops, constituting en tee i ese estical commission in Whitehall, and in their own Were persons keeping guard our the revenue. (looeh : There was one point on which the clergy felt n most deeply. In the earlier days of the elthrch the Of the bishop was always in the embed:el city. *rlg