The Express. — London, England, 1855-07-07 00:00:00

Lord J. EHIMiLL—Of seal,. fuNtesio.emnaittierst °I theta teeele i neePle. Of the inegletr"m tehnitemise" thee this: is • ono mid& bitable to .. •,se three were millawaten, cm was the present mayor neither iti Oldham, and the other wee a meet respected dermal; toottrogor r o . liM ottoomosomos. alle eill one w wwdi e , •la re liee emo s ol 0 s T , who had been chairman of the bench foe twenty years. looked to the returns he time Mr. Von had gellelatedto ebe mentaaei sad at the It°°' Gad P ile " g entlemen wi th ff nen another times h m wawa mold Ise gi.a. wi th Wittleeftt etmaki find that they bad dealt very severely o e y add oat behalf of the —I have always esastaarep tine 'thuds the btatadiute •/ fie inien e h r w etem ehee Re meela beec ee t i lea to the production of antagonist's., wimeran they may be. ter the security of r"""""' ha d ns h r a ' rf demurred at the onten, Markey, that in edema go have a datable peace we ought to togarmagoadmee. They have Austria and Drama, and the states of Germany use the emerepoudence was ant then comple te. Mr. HEY WOOD could mare the km. and idlest gam- eartt - es to • illemild anew% by which Turkey would be her that the workpeople themselves did not wish to have v,eured farm appession. I come now, baring stated these the melbas/7 fenced shove Senn feet. He could state as genera dews, to the mission with which I was 'barged at • fast that a gnat number of the aecidents_a o ro:m e flm oo tle to e V ettotog ieuna. out l oo ma tha y t es o Lsz i. h , e o pAt l h o ti o t o i tootoa t appeared t a t ol l me on foolhardissom of the people themselves.. I 1 _ bey mama very atreeply to Lord Cowley, her Majesty's th e ease at Oldham, ha believed the magistrates had of the law wee ambassador at Paris—l said. " I shall be able to ascertain le4 the nome Secrete"' that "iv view what it is that Austria is ready to aerie to. I shall be eared , aghast's, begged enabled to ascertain at length what it is that Ramie will tort r aie W tha ß t RetiOgyWhleLlierbjecticeere s a to * * * w e pleased= of the OOSOMIO fOf the ebbe et p ; but Ido not think it w fl l le MOM Oak au to make say decision, whatever may be correepeastmee. lir. J.O. PRILLIKORE said that if the low was bad etp issienstiense. It will not be possible for m e to make may it ought to be rerealed, and not systematically delated m deifies at Vitus. and that it mast remain for the two goneameate of Frame and of Great Britain to Melo the lli gvee r o. e fi e ß te li v Y t l u ll :: twit if the bon. and (abet gentle- altimeedy, whether there are any tome to which they em wows weight be satiefied with the production of the papers, _mat on whisk ta . mael . side v a . safe a t zt ot heaoun of bl oo e o pc no ace two r far meet his views. WA, air. upon arrivsog atVi enna were theC Col. DU e ri e N e ll i intimatedwebeeivitgehee teat that was all he de- armettafikos to ectodact. There was the negotiation to be madasted in the conference, and in the conference only, aired, between the throw belligerent powers, and Austria, who had The motion was negatived by cement. signed the treaty of Dee. 2.4. That was one part of the THE LAST AUSTRIAN PROPOSAL. betimes with which I was camped, bat the other part of Oa the gentle* that the Speaker leave the chair, the business, involving the more important considerations Mr. M. GIBSON rose is pursuance of a dim, "to ask for perhaps of the two, me to ascertain, by repeated Interviews he opposition and diseassions, the dews of the Austrian government, aad eigleeenene from the government relative tot . - to mamma to have either her assistance in ooncludiag of her Majesty's ministers to the views of their oollesithet pesos or to have fair terms from her upon which she would the late British plenipotentiary at the Vienna conferences, makes& ultimatum against Russia. Now, air, a very few in reference to the phut proposed by Austria to be submitted days after m arrival, so early uthe 7th of March, 1 Ca to Russia for the purees* of putting 'an end to Adam cussed with Count Buol, as well as with the French minister then resident, M. Bourquesey, the various stipulations to prepooderanee in the Bleak Sea,' as stated in the circular cease before the deference. Upon the mention of the third addressed by Count Buol to the diplomatic &gentile! Austria, point we, the French and English plenipotentiaries. declared dated Vienna, May 23." The hon. member said he was that it appeared to us that the beet solution of that point from Resale of het afraid be took a coarse on Monday night in reformat to was to b tom in the • Black Sea. We a stated limitation that if that this subject which did net harmonise with the feelings of limitation wen agreed to the general rule of the treaty of the home. If he committed any breach of the rules of 1841, lamely, the closing of the straits, might be retained. decorum, he now made an apology for so dole', and he We stated that it would then be possible to withdraw our wished to say that he did not adopt the Morse which he armies and tests from the Black Sea, Meanie then would pursued from any desire whatever to disparage the character no longer oust the preponderance of _Rizaia—there wou oot ao teapot a standing menace to Tur ey. Count B of the late commander-in 'chief, or to show anything like in so far agreed that he said, " Undoubtedly that is the beet difference to the motion which had been under cousideration. solution of the third point i undoubtedly the beat security Lord J. RUSSELL— Sir, lam very glad that the right you eut have is the limitation of the Rumen fleet;" but he hon. gentleman has now brought forward his remarks on said, "Thure is another solution, and that would be, instead the coarse which the goverment have pureed, and on the of witekeioll Russia. to strengthen Turkey. Its the of the Austrim government, that the third poiat war " which 1 have rem"' at a time when he een receive :ay be carried into effect either in the one mode or the aa answer. I certainly was surprised when, the other day, other. The proposal that you make is undoubtedly the on an occasion which I should have thought would have best ; we should be very glad to see it assented to by Russia; but w• induced him to refrain from say matter of controversy , be in the conference we shall give it every support, introduced this topic and made permed charges epithet me. will not say that we do not preserve to ourselves the power of p • g the other mode, namely, instead of • Notwithstanding the truth of Mr. Grattan'e remark, that -- - relation ro of the Russian foam, to have a coesterpeise he gentlemen very often make observations tempted by the the fleet of the dila." So far, sir—and indeed, I map impropriety of the occasion—(laughter)—l should hardly say, not only so far, but throughout—l have no sem have thought the right hoe. gentleman would have taken plaint to make, u the right . boo. tt g o e u nd he eman gasp poem the govenment to mute, ot that opportunity of introducing such a question ; but as he Austria. I think her gionduct—l might ad tide has brought forward the subject on the motion for going with it, in some respects very great fault—bat I tbdsk into committee of tnpply, I must own that he is fully en- there has been no treachery aid no bad filth in the matter. titled to an explanation, sad that the cornsponience which I think she was entitled to say, as a power which had wet as to war, as a power that was at peace with Rued% has passed with the Austrian government on this great "'We will endeavour to seek fora solution of this difficulty question fitly deserves and obtains the attention of puts- by the attainment of all the four points which we madder meet. Now, sir, before I enter upon that question, I must necessary for peace, but we do not bind ourselves to tael say • few words as to the right boa. gentleman's affirmation particular mode of obtaining one of those points. We Wah l that we have bon disappointed in all our predictions, and oureelvee at liberty to propose ' end ,if that other shoa t be hand sufficient, we will not rely solely on that w hich yam 1 that the objects of the war were such a s he was plea s ed "' repose ." Now, I cannot but say that I„thought the As define them. So far from being disappointed at the otoo triatiovernment were wrong in their suppasitioa that the events of the weir, I should say that, although the siege second of solution was as good as the first. I stated of Sebastopol has not had the success whisk we expected objections, and I stated them over and over again, at re last year, yet the immediate repulse of Roads from the Pelt." 114 ' 4 " with Count t Bad—objections whic h are he made . - Oae objec tion , siege of Sillitria, the evacuation of the Damhiaa provinen obvious enough to the proposition is, that Great Britain and France might not always be die. and the consent to abaadea entirely and for ever ail them posed to go to the considerable expense which would be special treaties which gave Russia a pretest for interferiog necessary, in order to have any fleet in the Black Sea that in Turkey, are Poetised; far beyond any which I had hoped might be at all reckoned is, t h at ai t was ob counterpoise to th e e .- would be accomplished in so shoot a time. The right hon. Radi o fleet Another objection time by placing Turkey as it were under the im patiens° says we stated that Cronstadt would fall last pla t e protection of those two powers, that year, end this assertion be founds on the declaration of the would thereby in some respects weaken her position. Bat First Lord of the Admiralty, that he bad no ends' Intel- a third objection, which I still think a very streets one, brace of the fact. How he could have f oun d e d wag that three or fad fleets—the fleets . of Turkey, assisted by France, England, and Austria on toe one Side, and the his statement en that reply of the First Lord of lest of Russia on the other— would have all the appearance the Admiralty lemat a loss to imagine. But the right of a competition for preponderance, and would thereby hon. gentleman goes on to say that we proposed the restore- weaken the general opinion of the solidity and the dura tion of Poland arid the independence of Hungary as two of time of the peace. Discussion went on, as the house has the objects of the war. The restoration of Poland we have seen b y t h e p a p e rs which have been p roduced—discussion never promised—we have saver held out a hops of it—and went ahead the Austrian government supported thoroughly we have sways considered thee if it was to be accomplished Count Bud; sad the French minister and plenipotentiary at all, it could only be accomplished by Austria, (Rear, supported with great force of argument the propositions hear.) 1 have been on habits of intimacy with many Poles, which were made (or limitation, and also for making e ihe and, edam they have spoken to me Cu this subject, I have Bleak Sea a commercial sea. I should say, with regard to said to them, "If Austria should take part, and coot the last proposition, that it was not cordially adopted by the eider the restoration of Poised advisable, you may Austrian government, but die did support that which my then tionceive some hopes of that event, but do instructions were to oppose. The right hon. gentleman, not imagine that Er gland and France will alone strangely enough, having read several edracte from Count undertake to atecireplPh such en object." I also said to a Buol'a circular, said he would not read the particular pro- Person with whom say one au" be Prowl to be solosinteds positions which Austria made, but he left it to the house to —I mean Priem Czartoryski—" I have no conception that infer that those propositions were the same that had England end Prance would attempt to restore Poland, and been made by Rum. Now, I think that • very few if they would not attempt it, I think it would be weeds will show that whether they were satisfactory or a crime for them to hold out hopes with regard to it." unsatisfactory, adequate or inadequate, they were Then with regard to the independence of Hungary I must totally different from those of Russia. Her proposal to say it would have been most prepesteroua for us Russia at the time I was at Vienna was that the fleets of all negotiating with Austria, asking the alliance of Austria, the powers should have liberty to go through the Straits. entering into conferences with Austria, to have said The proposition that Russia made atter I left Vienna was that one of the objects of this war was to effect that the deging of the straits should be maintained as a the iadependeon of Hungary. No such notioa was ever principle, and that Turkey should have the liberty of call. put forward by her Majesty's government. The right hon. ing to her allies to enter in met of danger. Now that pro gentleman say& that he should find great difficulty in ex- position does not at all resemble those two which I will not plaiuing to a labouring man the object of the war. I have argue, for they have been dimmed by the house on a no doubt the right hoe. gentlemen is right, that be could former madam, and the house by a very great majority not explain it, bat it does so happen fortunately that the were of opinion that they were bad. That proposal was labouring men of this city, the artisans thr.ughout the founded on the emend proposal that I have mentioned, country, have had all aionifei clear conception of what the dint Count Buol made to us when we first had an interview object of tha war was. They have known that it was to with him. He proposed in the first plate that the rule of prevent the further aggrandisement of Rawls, and to main- 1841 should be maintained, but that it should be taia the integrity and independence of Turkey. That was maintained with exceptions in favour of the allies, the object of the allies. It is an object 13 easily understood but with no exception in favour of Ramis. Thus that I must say the mass of the people of this country have according to that principle—and I certainly very much never dece:yed themselves with regard to it. But now doubt whether Russia was at that time prepared to adopt it- 1 as to the accomplishment of such an object I there would have been the power on certain occasions of must confess that before we entered ate the rending armed vessels—of sending ships of the line—of 'I war, since we entered into the war, and up to France, Great Brit an and Austria into the Black See, and the present time, I have always though it an object of there would hove been no power on the part of Russia of very great difb ilty. and only to be stained by great either sending her tinsels from the Black Sea into the Medi eateifices. I ban thought a i because, as every one may terramer,„ or from the Mediterranean into the Black Sea. perceive, it is no secret to say so, Russia is enormously The straits, in short, would bate been entirely closed to powerful. Her population is animated and strengthened by Russia, but they would not have been closed to powers the repeated successes she has had, by the effects which she which had not establishments in the Black Sea. The pm ha' male for a century p. et, by which she has made great Mutat mode in which that proposition was to be carried additions to her territory, while Turkey, on the contrary, into effect was this—l do not conceive it was a proposition has been becomiei weaker, so much so, that when the war of Austria to be conceded by her allies, of course it was not began the armed force of Turkey was only one-tenth of that finally settled as to its details—what she proposed was of Russia. But further than due, there was this great die- that suppmag—which seemed to have been ascertained by catty, that more than one-tenth of the subjects of Turkey the English admiral, Sir Edmund Lyons—that Russia had were of the religious faith of the Emperor of Russia, and six ail of the line in the Black See, that when she had that bad been taught uiidnausly to look to the Emperor of number, and 113 more, England, France, and Austria should Russia for protection, and had been alienated from their each maintain two frigates in the Black Sea, and have the ellegiance by every kind of intrigue, and every kind of soli- power of relieving them from time to time, but if Rada citati n Well, sir, it has always appeared to me that the dould Menus her forme—for instance, if Russia should object I have stated was difficult, and I think I could in no augment her fleet from mix sail of the line to eight, that long time state in what respect it was difficult. I may refer then half the number maintained by Russia might be main to matters which, both in war lid in peen, make the tamed by the three allied powers—name) y that while Tar attainment of the chject difficult. Some persons of high key would eight mail of the line, as equlileet to eight sail military authority thought, at the beginning of the war, that of the line of Reeds, England would nave four and Frazee it would he quite cufficieat, and would be a mat effective four at the game time. It was proposed at the sane time means of defence, for Turkey, if lines were drawn from the that. if Russia should continue to augment her force—for in- Black Sea to the Sea of Marmon, somewhat resembling the stance, Uses should have 12 sail of the line, that each of the famous lines of Torres Vain', and that English and French maritime powers should have six sail of the line, that soldiers should occupy those lines. Now, the circumstances Austria should of course have her own naval force, and were totally different. The Doke of Welliegton setabliged that they should maintain an equal force to that of Remit. has army behind the lines of Torras Viceless because the But, in addition to this, Count Bud was ready, as I was people of Portugal was generally opposed to the invader told, verbally, the day before I left Vienna, to agree to a Hai the Ru'sisn army evened the Balkan and got within treaty which he mentions in this circular between Aestria 20 miles of Constantino:As she might have had the means of Great Britain, and Francis, by which they should aseg raising iumneetions among the Christian subjects cf those agree to guarantee the independence and integrity of Ter provinces. And now let us see one of the difficulties that key. That was • point upon which I had laboured during would occur during peace. We have bad some discussion the time I bad been at Vienna. When I first saw Count on former occasions with regard to the Principalities. Bud, I told him my general vitae, besides those which Those Principalities are inhabited by Christians, and it hat I have mentioned with regard to the limitation of the fleet. been said, and naturally enough, make • Christian which were according to my instruction' but I said, I state there, and thereby make a barrier against Russia. But think, before th whole of that transaction had deed, it the Russian party is so strong in those provinces, would be very desirable that we should have some kind of there arc so many p arties who are bound to Russia by the security for the future by an alliance between the gifts they have received, the-. if you spade an independent three powers. Count Bnol was of opinion it would be better state there, you would only be strengthening Russia, and to have an article in the general treaty making Russia • enabling her to carry on her proje cts. Considering them party to that guarantee. I differed with him in opinion, things, and from many other considerations of a like nature, but he maintained his own opinion es I maintained mine; it has always appeared to me that the end of this war must but, however, as I said, the day before I left Vienna I was be attained by not merely a treaty between the belligerents informed that Count Buol bad come to the cpinioo, es eug an the one side—namely, France, Great Britain, and jetted in this antler—that it would be desirable that the Terkey, on the one had, and Rued& on the other—but it three powers should enter into • mutual treaty for , must be a general treaty in which the Powareof Europe the defence of Turkey, thereby securing her independence. slid' take part, and in which they shall give their security Of coarse it was understood that Ruda might be a party to for the maintenance of the independence and integrity of that treaty, and thereby there would be • greater security Turkey. Now, if I have taken that view, it was obvious for its being kept. Now, it appeared to me, I confess, that that I should consider the ea-operation of Austria of the omitting several details more or leas important, every highest value. That the co-operation of Austria would be one of teens, which I not mention, certainly not' of great value during war no one will deny. If at the of a satidetory kind, that thee. two prepaid's, tangent moment the Austrian army were adesseiug into do contain • security for Turkey for the future. It winged Bessarabia, it le clear that some 40,000 or 50,000 Russian to se that if we had this arrangement with regard to the soldiers would be unable to marsh to the Crimea admiesion of ships of war, that Russia, ets far from increasing And if she was operating on the side of Gal he Stet to the size to which she did before the commence. lids, that again would prevent Russian forces from uses' of the war, would oantioutily abstain from maintalo being sent from Poland to the seat of war. But, sir, lag more than the six Alpe of the line which she had, re- I believe that in the arrangements to be made with regard piaelas them, of course, if she thought proper, by larger to peace, the alliance and co-operation of Austria is at feat and *sager vessels, but that she would not attempt to necessary. The pathway by which Russia would seed beta a Met fleet in the Bleak Sea, because I am pot her landed armies to the attack of Turkey ie across the snallei melting would so diminish the opinion of the power Danube, by the aide of the Austrian provisoes. and through eif ficasela in the Eut s. , the observation that other fleets, the Balkan. That is the way by which on more than one red T c the fleets of Femme and Great Britain, were ca ocsion she has attempted to invade Turkey, and that is fa the Black Sea es a Meek and counterpoise al M otsiallp the r oad by which oa the lest metegiou th e Karim army .On theether heed the Water m the land side,the smear reached Adrianople. But if Austria is rimed in alliance city plait the Mealiele of Ras& Irj_ her armies, /Mike 1110 with Francs and treat Britain top & iv theli ewes- the Mews et ISMI awl VA ;weed be secured by te a m ax ,..• -. p oppose suck aggreados ',4 fora of seam:; if France octal Math and the emeammeiese that no sooner owl i7,r.iiit Britain on their side have sufficient nteethe t°_, ailli attempt to do what she bad dine :eitlihe these two mid force of Russia, we make it the in: typos UM ins.. sps Lefin o siZ obst , Se Merry the predates of Tai l telr than it pis.,;;, to ase tatain peter. Aced here I may say that I quite 1"" 0 Ilikelereeioa et war efiai.-"" ... her I T, la the agree with the seam of the extract quoted by the Ms. Zrelo Isom eltaanfp. I @mainly thought seat a= „ mo u e fee the Wee Riding that the best security for pease dis s s Pfeil eg ematee Ina isferior to the pled of ta the tamest to midatafa mem d e w whisk ine bed MeeMbed, yet that it would n't I Mai M. COSIM—The rely leserity. g yo,-ludlag ey wet that would be 02Dourable• dr Is THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY REINING, JULY 7,185 L ellicdoewee...mid wen gins../ l e ::: set ea.— bee a Air proihe at - do dentist of . That was ay 2`4The right - hen gaitkosen me whether I have .1 that opinkm. I tare net slanged that opinion. I ales ski say that in making these proposition., the Austrian govermleimt &eased Mat they were ready to mike them an eitkr.atet—tbat is to My, that th ey were ready to send an ultimatum te St. Petersburg, either that Russia should consent to the plan of counterpoise which I lave mentioned, or that she should gement to limit her naval force in the Black Sato the number existing at the time that this casco/Mon wee accepted—that is to say, sup posing that Russia had no more than me sail of the line left, that she should consent to the provision made in the treaty with all the powers, that she should not increase her force b.youd that number. Certainly it appeared to me, having reed the Russian minister'. declaration over and ova again, that he could not assent to say limi tation by Russia; that that proposal would be at once rejected - b y Russia. With regard to the other, it was cer tainly denbtfel; but es it did not contain the proposition to which Russia had mat objected, she might hen:grad to that proposal. If she had refused both prepositions the Austrian minister was to have orders to leave St. Peters burg in eight days, the military convention with F was ' to be signed, and the Austrian armies were to be placed in each a position that they could commence war at any moment. Then was not the promise that she would make ea immediate declaration of war but it was to be declared a came The Au strian ter said it would bring on war, and I em r bound to say, considering the character of*. Austrian go vereatent, that unless Ramie had conceded the point at the last moment it would have led to a war between Austria and I Russia. Well, sir, I stated to Count Buol—and, as I have said in this house, there may be some things in which my I recollection might somewhat differ from Count Buol—but r I have no hesitation in saying that this eircular contains a . very accurate account of what I did at Vienna—l ended to r Count Buol that I had no instructions to agree to sash terms, and that my instructions rather led me to steppes. I that such terms would not be ascepted, but I se my own opinion was that they might be accepted, I mild assure him that be might convey his eimerance to , the Emperor of Austria that I would lay the ease before the t cebinet of this country, and would use my best endeavour to r put thoese propositions forward, and that I might hope for . their acceptance. (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, that promise I r certainly performed. I stated to my government, is every I AMA the propositions of which I was the bearer. I said I I had sot the written propositions, but that Raley were NW Ceded to form a basis of agreement, no doubt the Arafat I minister at this court would furnish them with all the de tails. 1 must saythat thou propositions were deliberately eon. eidend ; everything that I said,l must say,bad its due weight, I and was fairly placed is opposition to the ditadventsgee of sash a peen. The government came to the ocusdalem that It was not • safe peace and that they could not Mies mend its adoption. (Rear, bear.) The right hon. gene► aid aye that he has heard from my right bon. friend the member for Carlisle that the French government were dis t posed to accept them, but that they were induced by the • government of this country to refuse them. M. Brooms. de Limp undoubtedly represent• d to 'the Emperor the advert ' leSee of the terms I have stated ; but the Emperor did net r his advice, and it was before be could have known NM desYea of the English government that he resolved on hie cat to refuse the propositions of Austria es net learegae conditions on Russia which would be a ; walleient foundation for a durable pew. There , bee the two governments came to the decision that , the: proposals of Austria should be refused. The 1 Austrian government thereupon declared—l am not going to , enter into their cue, as to how far ills • good case or not; I have stated it as far as I am able, and the house can judge for itself—the Austrian government declared that they erne reedy to carry into effect the four points, that they did not think the third point admitted only of ;one solution, that they were of opinion the solution they had sugges ted to the two governments of France and Great Britain was a , sufficient security, that they bad been ready to propose it to Russia, but as it w.s negatived by the two allied govern. merits they should no longer promote It; but in that ems they did not consider themselves bound oy the termed the treaty of the tad of December to go to war with Rada Sir, I believe in strictness those terms admit the cesstrem tion that they were bound to go to war ; but the house will remember that when that treaty was first mentioned in this house I rather opposed the general view that Austria wee at once bound to go to war with Rasta under that treaty. I think the two governments might cell upon Austria to perform the treaty ; but I think that if eves this was not a good cease or a sufficient cause, there is at least muck to be said in favour of the proposition they were ready to make as an ultimatum. (Hear, hear.) Now sir the right hon. gentleman asks a question personal to tripoli un doubtedly—but one which be is fairly entitled to ask, and which I consider lam bound to answer. He asks me, how, if I have held then, opinions and if I have not changed them, I can remain in office with do present administra tion. (Hear, bear.) Now, sir, I think that if I had left office upon the decision which I mentioned to her Majesty's government, I should not have been acting in consistency with that which I have repeatedly declared and which I have made the guide of my conduct; namely, that in the last resort and when it came to that great ques tion of whether the proposals before us should be received ot not, it was for the government and sot for a plenipotentiary to decide that question ; neither was it for • plenipotentiary, neither was it for me, having been employed in these negotiations, and hoviag been a member of the government. But if I bed thought thq, having held a certain opinion, and being evenuled in a question of such great importance, it was my duty to wider my resignation Pr her Majesty, I must say that I think the circumstances of the time would have forbidden me to have done so. I must now refer to that which has taken place since the commencement of this session, and which, I think, must have impressed every one that takes part in public affairs, with very grave reflections. There have been several changes since the commencement of the session. I myself resigned my o ffi ce at the very be. ginning, on the ground that we could not resist the appoint ment of a committee of inquiry. A vote of this house in duced Lord Aberdeen and his colleagues generally to resign their offices a few days after. Lord Derby was called to attend upon her Majesty, but he thought, and with very sound judgment, that, urine he obtained the mitten°, of some of Lord Aberdeen's colleagues—my noble friend, and the right honourable gentleman the member for the ljai 'salty of Oxford—he could not obey her Majesty's command and form a government which promised any sta bility. I myself was unable to form a government when the task was offered to me. My noble friend obtained the assistance of some of the friends of Lord Aberdeen and formed a cabinet ; but only a few days after they milord their offices on a ground the very opposite from that an which the decision to which I came was founded, namely, on the ground that a committee was appointed to inquire Into the state if the army in the Crimea. It cannot be die sled that these circumstances have given an appearance of instability to our councils, an appearance of instability which ought above all things to be avoided. But men than that. It was impossible for me not to perceive, though at a distance, the tendency that there was to cry down ell authority and to distrust all persons in whom the adminis tration might be placed. If there was one man whom the country thought more than another ought to be entrusted with the supreme plea in the councils of the sovereign it was my noble friend who is now the First Lord of the Treasury. (Hear, hear.) But no sooner had that appointment taken place than—without any reams, as it seemed to me, but that he held e as of authority in her Majesty's councils— be become the object of the meat violent attacks, and of a very general endeavour to run down his administration and te deprive him of power. (Hear, hear.) This, sir, was set the effect of any extreme violence of party feeling—fro from it. But it did show a tendency in the public mend to run down all authority, and to distrust all persons who might be the depositories of power—a tendency be go from one change to another, from a restless denim for sanethieg, people did not know what. (How hear) Now, sir. I did conceive that in thei state of the public mind, whatever might be my sentiments as to the great question pending—and a very great question it was—it was my duty t. give ay support to my noble friend ; for lam sure that if I had then leftoMee, though I might have prousieed him my support, it would have increased that instability to which I have made allu sion. It would have been considered as &symptom and as a precursor of other changes; and, therefore, I believed that it was my duty to lay the propositions before the cabinet of my noble friend, and to leave them to consider them as well as they were able and to make the beet decision they could. I believed, air, that the minority should yield to the majority—if there are majorities and minorities is the cabinet —and that an individual should make his 'intimate low to those of the cabinet is general, end should leave it to this house to say whether they were fitted to preside over the public affairs. I believe that my noble friend and those who act with Ma are as well qualified to make thole changes in our adminis trative system, and those reforms which the conduct of public affairs may require, ea any set of men that her Ma jesty might call to her council. (Hear, hear.) I believe that after a time that persuasion will be fixed in the public mind. I believe that it would be a very great misfortune if a change were to take place, unless it were a total change to men opposed to her Majesty'. govereasot ; and if the house should think that those men would be better adoinis triton than her Majesty's present advisee, then I think that every support should be given to them. (Hear, hear.) Now, eft, I will not say that these affebe—important es the ere, Waiving es they de sell great eseecquseees both to tlo prides el ZeOrd is the world sad to her internal institutions—have net eat SO mash scrieve reflection ; bet I have made the best decision I could. It may he said by many that I have betrayed the interests of the country. It may he right that I ought to have persisted to the end, emi that I ought to have resigned when my opinion wee ear ruled. On those ground. I may be liable to censure, and I hays certainly no moon to emaciate ; all that I can say Is that I have made a fair statement of my opinions and my motives, and 1 leave the been to Amide upon then. (Hear, bear.) Mr. COBDEN bed howl assay speeches in that hone* which bad seleeiched mid bed plena Yes ; but he mu* unfeignedly dears that he had Dew hued anything that bad so smelt aelesitited er is ereskerined him es what hal just Mao i.e. the mile lad. The Hesse of Cassese wee now withist• math, he seppeesd, of Its se . Wee it team the esicalcy fa the heads of this milrtry, ON Ibis messedeir_ war p with so avowed e :4= Ile wield Jaisitely rather see the party from tbe Vim aide eta use. the hope end take the weelhanweir. (ahem Etesethesprelillee.) 115=1' ON IPNIM else see WSW Osage d peesetitspg p Ihmestgiorty la the country. He looked beak with regret at the vete whisk be gave to pnt an end to Lord De's government ; ha believed that bad cost this oonatry a knadred millions of mosey, sad 110,030 good lives. (tuck cheering from the Opposition party.) Tat so one be frightened, thee, by the prospect of a change of ministry ; an wss better than driftieg on though the war with oat an t. And would any on. pretend to solve the mystery of what this war was carried on for ? Was it to take Sebastopol ? Then we must minuted Sebastopol with 260,000 nes, and starve it oat, and then we might take it. Or was it iatended to winter spin in the Crimea, for that was now the talk is the camp ? We had had an opportunity of making peace, and had so employed it that we were separated now from all Europe, and bad only Frappe with as in continuing the wet. What were we then to do ? He I entreated the house toe:pram their honest convictions upon this moot important gaieties. Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I can very easily understand - - that the hon. member for the West Riding, having views of his own, and wishing to form • party that should place itself in a position to administer the affairs of the country— and I do not blame him for it, nor say it as a reproach— that he, and those who hold such views, should do all which they peeeibly can to realise an assertion which 1 utterly deny to be founded in tact, namely, that other public men in this country have lost the confidence of the nation. It is very natural for the hon. member to say then aro no men in this country to whom the nation would look up, sad around whom it would rally, at a period when it may be memory foe the public weal that there should be perm= in whom the coulee, would be disposed to place cow& duce. Sir, I deny that such is the fut. Within* setting aside all party feelings, i say that, NI both sides of this house, there are men in whim the country would feel confidence, and ummil whom the people would rally, at such 11100111111 OS those which the hon. gentleman describes. At least, la me respect it is true; I may say, without any disrespect to the hon. gentleman and those amongst whom he is sitting, that they are the last men in the country, in whom the emeeley would be disposed, under any circumstance', to plass lb confidence. (A laugh.) But I think that system of mdse. vouring to decry every man in a public station, and reps.' sent every man in public life as animated by feelings awl opinions that are not honourable to him, and that are M. consistent with hie duty, is rendering very bad service to the country ; and I think it is no honour to those by when such a system is pursued. (Cheers.) And this lam certain of ; I have such confidence in the good sense and good feeling of the people of England, that I am firmly persuaded three political arts, instead of tending to advance the par pausal those who practise them, moil upon their authors; and that instead of doing the damage that is Lauded to those whom they propose to ruin, on the esatsesy, I they lower in public opinion the character of them MM resort to what I must call such unworthy means of further. tog their political purposes. (Cheers.) Now the km. gentleman has lavished a good deal of this upon my noble friend, and most unworthily and most undeservedly. My noble friend has pursued a course which I think was eminently becoming a person placed in the situation in , which he we. The hon. gentleman taunts my noble friend by implication with having been actuated by an unworthy desire of retaining political power and place. Why, does not the recent conduct of my noble friend acquit him at once of any such imputation? Why, surely the hon. gentleman cannot forget that my noble friend voluntarily resigned office, and went to that bench where the hon. ' gentleman says he should have wished him to be. (Laughter.) And did not my noble friend show by that, that when he considered his public duty was incompatible with the temptations of office, he was ready at once to quit Mice, and place himself in a position which he thought would be consistent with the opinions which he might entertain? Sir, my noble friend went as plenipo tentiary to Vienna; he returned in the double capacity ofplenipotentisry and a member of her Majesty's cabinet. He entertained opinions, which he has stated, as to the pro posal which Austria thought she might make with success to the government of Rusts. As a plenipotentiary, he was perfectly right to propose that to his government, as M. Drouyn de riluys was justified in proposing it toeke go comment of France. But neither o them could undertake to do more than that; only to lay before their respective governments the ideas which the Austrian government en tertained; but these two governments must necessarily have been left masters of their decision on a question of such vast and paramount importance. My noble friend, as a member of a government, was perfectly entitled to recom mend a particular measure to his colleagues; and it is en tirely a novel proposition to say that every member of a government should expect that a proposal which he thinks one worthy of acceptance must either be aeeepted by the go cerement of which he is a member or that he must retire from the government. Why, if that were to be the ruling principle of cabinets, no cabinet could hold together for any term, because twelve or fourteen men, per.ectly united on general principles, must necessarily, upon occa sion, differ in opinion as to particular measures ; and the only way in which parties can be kept together, or govern ments act harmoniously, is that, by an interchange of opinions, they should come at last to some final decision ; them on one side or the other giving up their particular opinion, upon a particular question, for the purpose of com mon action on great and general principles. The bon. gen tleman taunts my noble friend with having, since he re turned hero, made a speech in which he pointed out the ambitious program of Rustic, and the dangers that would arise to Europe from its continuance ; and he seemed to thick then was something inconsistent between that speech and the opinions my noble friend entertained as to a parti cular project of arrangement. Why, nothing can be more consistent. There was nothing at variance in one or the other. He might well think a particular arrangement was deserving of the consideration of the government, but he was not, upon that account, the leas impressed with the dangers to Europe of that system of ambitious aggregates, whieh had characterised the policy of Russia ; and he was entitled, when the question name to be discussed in this house, to state again those opinions which he had often expressed here. The governments of France and England, each for reasons of its own, thought that the proposal of Austria was not one which L under the circumstances, it was advisable to entertain. The question was mat anxiously and earnestly considered. The decision was net taken in a hasty manner, or upon light grounds. We thought the pro posal did not hold out to us that future security and reality of peace which we thought ourselves bound to ob tain after such great exertions and sacrifices as we bad made ; and upon that account the two governments, each equally upon its own reflections, determined that the proposal was one which they could not authorise Austria to make in their names to Ruses. We thought that to leave the Russian fleet in the Black Sea, with no definite obligation, with no other security than that each of us might when called upon by the Rattan send a force equal to half the amount of the Russian, might lead, and probably would, to the accumulation of a vast maritime fore* in the Black Sea, which, threatening the security of Constantinople, end capable at any moment of carrying a large lied force to the shone of Turkel, would, so far from establishing a state of security and peace. give to the relations between Turkey and the Western Powers on the one band, and Russia on the other, the ohmmeter of an armed truce, lasteed of a secure and unsuspecting puce. The hon. gentleman thinks, how ever, that we have carried on the war without knowing the purpose for which it is conducted. He says that no man in the country knows what we an fighting for ; and the right hon. ?sideman the member for Manchester says the same. Now I will undertake to say there is scarcely a peasant in the country who needs an explanation, and does not under stand what it is the war is now carried on for. He wishes to know, sot what the object is, for which the war is to be carried on, but the method in which it is to be carried on— whether Sebastopol is to be invested, and what the army is do—whether it is to winter in the Crimea, and what are our plans of operation. Surely, these are not questions upon I which he expects the government to give him an answer ? The object of the war is to repress the aggressions of Russia, and it will be carried on until that is accomplished. According to the hon. gentleman it would seem that nothing has occurred except danger and digester. If any man will compete the condition in which Russia was when this war began with the position in which she now is—if he will compare the advantageous position in which Russia then stood with the position which she now oorapies—l think any fair and candid man will confess that great advantages have been obtained by us, and that Russia is by no either politically, diplomatically, or in a military and a t il * respect, in the situation in which she was when this war was first undertaken. (Hear, hoer.) In the Beide, we have blocked up her fleets now during two summers. The fortress of Bonsareund, which threatened to beams another Cronstadt, has been entirely destroyed; and Rune has not ventured to re-occupy that position. The right hon. g!_ntlemas says we boosted that we would take Cronstadt. We did nothing of the kind. No man who knew anything of the strength of that fortress seer held out any expectation that our fleet was going to destroy it. In the Principalities the Bradenton.' have been expelled. They have been expelled, as was very properly stated, set.by the action of British or French troops, though their pmesees at Verna contributed in some degree to their retirement • , but no doubt it was the action of Austria that mandyllealellesied to the retreat of those troops. Was it nothing, Melt, the* Austria was persuaded to take that attitude, and ne Om le take part with England and France, that by her ment with Turkey and her military position she gained Turkey and the allies the total evacuation of the Principa lities ? I say, that is a proof that by diplomacy, as well as by arm', great progress has been mad* in repressing the am bition of Russia. Then the right hon. undue= say iftit the war was undertaken to restore satinet nationalities. We never talked of any sash thing. Mr. GIBSON—I beg the noble lord's pardon. I beard him distinetly say, in reference to the he was put. st selv iip , There is Poland : the mill of Poland is a menses to Germany." Mar, hear.) Lord ALMERSTON—Nsta ndblumenese o Mahe I did my that the treaties ef Poised a to Gomm; bat ' did !u ls se say that Baikal aadTaeoes were gabs teamed the Swim how Pekoe ? I easewpasied that by a asap Elbsl It was the Osman pewees ales,Anglia awl tl bg whoa that mill= mid be eland, and Mind from *slide& et Xenia. ON I *tote anti whe they, were called upon to take the Bald again! Russia, that was the danger from which they would ender your to protest themselves for the future. As to the inde pendence of Hungary, when did the right hon. gentleman ever hear me say that eau of the *hints of the war was to separate Hungary from Austria? Every word I ever uttered of Hungary was in a contrary sense. I stated that I should consider It a calamity to Europe if the separation of Hungary were to demolish that Austrian empire the existence of which in the centre of Europe I consider of great importance to the general interests and welfare of the European community. I have my opinions, we doubt, as ti the justice of particular questions which some years past were raised between Hungary and the go vernment of Austria ; but I never for an instant stated, at any time, that I thought the separation of Hungary from Austria would be conducive to the general welfare of Europe. Certainly nothicg ever dropped from me, or tram any member of her Majesty's government, which tended, fa the slightest degree, to warrant the assertion of the right bon. gentleman that the independence of Hungary was one of the objects of the war against Russia. Then, sir, in the Black Sea how do we stand? The fleet of Russia has been one-half destroyed by her own bands, and the rest has been cooped up ; and whenever Sebastopol shall yield to the efforts of our armies, will no doubt fall into the power of the allies. The Sea of Athff, which was the great source of supply to the Russian army in the Crimea, has, by the gallantry and enterprise of the British and Preach military and naval forces, now been altogether closed as a source of Radon supply; and the Russian forces in the Crimea ate thereby placed in very great difficulties, both as to the munitions of war, and the supply of provisions. There fore, I say the position is this, whereas, when the war began, Ramie was actually invading the territory of ens ally, now, on the contrary, the temtory of our ally has been evacuated, and we occupy an important position' within the territory of Russia. The hon. gentleman who spoke last says—Can you expect with 30,000 men to con quer the Crimea? Instead of 30,000 men, it so happens that there are 180,000 men of the allies in the Crimea at the present moment. Of course, the events of the future are beyond our control or the prescience of man ; but there is every reason to hope that before any great length of time has elapsed we shall find ourselves successful in the opera tions which we are there carrying on. Some gentlemen, I know, contend that it was unwise for the government to send an expedition to the Crimea at all. I totally differ from the opinion thus expreseed. (Hear.) To send an army to enter the Russian territories at the south, or to enter Bee sushi', and to wander amid those vast forests which stretch up towards Warsaw, would, I admit, have been a military folly. The object was to strike at the centre of Hessian power in the Black Sea ; that point was Sebastopol and the Crimea ; and though the difficulties we have encountered in that under taking have proved greater than we imagined when we first commenced—whatever those difficulties have been. I am of the satne opinion now that I was when the expedition was first planned and ordered—that that was the point which was to be struck at—that it was in the Crimea and at Sebastopol that the preponderance of Russia could be most effectually tut an end to—and that, whatever exertions might be required for the accomplishment of the purpose , it was that pima* that ought to be aimed at, and on that , spot that the great efforts of the British and French forces required to be made. The hon. gentleman says he thinks ' it high time that the government should be placed in other ' hands—that he regrets extremely the vote he gave by which the gentlemen opposite were placed on the benches which they now occupy ; and I am to infer that when next a vote is proposed which shall have for its tendency to remove them to this side of the house and place us on that, that the hon. member will he found voting on the side of those who will be disposed to frame a resolution having,_ that tendency. We shall have the members of the Peace Society, therefore, voting to place in power a set of gentlemen who, as far as we can judge from the lan guage they have held in this house, are as determined to carry on the war with vigour and energy as those who now occupy the seats on which we sit. How far the hon. gentle man and thine who act with him may think that by fre quent changes of the government they may at last so far ' shake the confidence of the public is those who have here ' tofore conducted the affairs of the country, that, in despair, ; the people will turn to them, I of coune am not able to say —(a laugh)—but I think they will find that that speculation will not answer, and that whether they put in office gentle men on the other side, or retain in office those who now hold it, they will find that the manly and determined spirit of the country is not to be broken down by the speeches • which they may make either here or elsewhere. They will ' find that the country will support no government except a government that will carry on the war with a full determi nation to conduct it to a successful issue, and that 'the country will not submit for a single week to a go vernment founded upon the principles which are advocated by the hon. member for the West Riding and those who concur with him. I have only farther to say that I am con vinced no blame attaches to my noble friend for the part ' which he has taken in these transactions ; and with regard t to the conduct of the government, in (declining the proposi , tine made by Austria, or in conducting the operations of the war, I am convinced that we have only been following that which is the decided and determined will of the people of this country. And I entertain the most confident expecta tion notwithstanding all the proofs of failure and dis aster which come to us from time to time from the gentle- men on those benches, that, by the help of Providence and the justice of our those, we shall lead this country to a suc cessful issue ; and then we shall perhaps find that the has. gentlemen will confess themselves as much out in their cal culations now as the hon. member for the West Riding must admit himself to have been when he told us, with an air of triumphant exultation, that he would crumple up the empire of Russia like a sheet of paper. (Chew.) Mr. ROEBUCK—Sir, it appears to me that there are two very separate matters before the hewn at present. One is the character of the noble lord the member for London ; the other is the wisdom or folly of the present war. Upon the first point I agree with the hon. member foe the West Riding and the right hon. opmber for Manchester; on the second, I agree with the noble lord at the head of the government. (Hear, hear.) I will endeavour to treat these two questions quite distinctly. The noble lord at the head of the government says that in a government composed as a government i n this country is, of many persons agreeing in general principles, and differing, as men must differ, upon separate and in.lividual questions, there must necessarily be *compromise of opinion. On that point I agree with the noble lord. The only difficulty is to know to whet extent that compromise may go. (Hear, hear.) I think the noble lord the member for London has shown that his view of this compromise is one wholly inconsistent with perfect honesty in public men. I will at once address myself to the con duct of the noble lord. He joined Lord Aberdeen's admi nistration. War was declared by that administration. War was carried on by that administration, uatil parlia ment met, at the beginning of this year. Daring the whole of that time that cabinet had the support of the antis nity of the noble lord. The public knew nothing of dissen. sions. The authority of the noble lord was given to every particle of conduct on the part of the admieistration. When parliament met I proposed to move a resolution in this house. Then, and not till then, the noble lord took fright. He left his colleagues in the lurch. (Hear, hear.) It then came out that there had been dimension for a long time in that cabinet. And dissension upon what ? Upon matters of minor import—upon trivial matters, on which men really agreeing on great principles might and must differ if go- Terminals are to be constitutionally carried on in this coun try ? No, not at all ; but upon the vital matter of the war itself. (Hear, hear.) And when I proposed that motioa the noble lord lett his c Mosques, saying that he could not resist the resolution I proposed, because he differed with his colleagues upon the conduct of that war. Upon what so vital could he have differed as that ? (Hear, hear.) Should he not, as a man having at heart the character of public men—having at heart the welfare of his country—ought be not, months before, so to have declared the opinion which he held; and ought he not then, and long before, to have deserted that cabinet to which he belonged? (Hear, hear.) But he did no such thing. He allowed the army to dwindle down into nothing; he allowed sufferings unheard-of to be the lot and portion of that army ; and he allowed that, knowing as he did that the conduct of the war was unworthy of this country—that it Ins in bands unfit to conduct it; and be stood there, and saw melting away nuder every species of disaster, a great and gallant army sent from those shores. (Hear.) That is the first charge which I lay to the door of the noble lord ; and I accuse him here, in the face of the Commons of Eng land, of a dereliction of duty as a public man. (Hear, hear.) What is the next? Having left that cabinet, having seen the struggles to form another, he did not join that other, but he accepted an office as plenipotentiary to Vienna. When he got there he found four points agreed upon. Upon the third point great difference of opinion took place between Russia and the allied powers—Austria at last proposing a plan which she supposed contained the elements of peace. The noble lord approved that plan, and confidently stated to Count Buol that when he came home be would press it upon the government of her Majesty, and with his autho rity endeavour to carry it. He came home. He came home in the doable capacity of plenipotentiary and minister of the crown. In this house those conferences were dis cussed; and the very point upon which the eonferenties went off came before this house. Different opinions were expressed; but I ask this house if anybody ever learned from the noble lord himself the real state of the conferences which he had left at Vienna? (Hear.) Only to-aight'has the noble lord confessed what teeny happened. Bat after a long discussion upon that matter, we went to a divi sion upon the third point; and the noble lewd led this boom to assume that he agreed fully with his colleggees apes that Cint. At the time that he so allowed th e house to believe had in his own mind a totally different opinion—(hear)— and he had conveyed that different opinion to our ally, Austria. (Hear, hear.) Well, air, I want to know whether a public man could possibly have committed any act which was so likely to compromise public men as that ? (Hear, hear.) It le all very well for the noble lend at the bead of the government to say that no sooner does a per son get Into power than he is smiled ; and the noble toed seems to think that the voluntary wept seas of Dower is of es wonderful virtue that he appears to me to forgot Use eirsanteteasse under which the Roble Seed (Russell) notedly left ease. Re left office, first, not being compiled diorama. He seas into office, &madly, when hi . dinned tr hel tresa Ike eaMnet be joined anon lie mei vital of all the lins that eould be submitted to the cabinet at the time, 'eV:, or war. (Rear, bees.) Apia that was so natter, but it was the very epos which the was formed. (Hear, beerr IP; had been a mere natter of internal regulation we should tars had the people up in snag, and the noble lord himself w - eald have aid that this was a nistAer et wed that be weld not, therefore, joia the slap Ms bin as be did upon a Rafts Plidibb , I wet* kart whet MO the bag* nese of tide country at present more then the q ----.""s oe l t a peens or war. You talk of principle; is thee, 60 ,37. 4 .7 eiple Aare ? (Hear, hear.) And I ask this house ogico,-- wMdso there is an ything in the conduct of the go at Mae at all equal in importance to the conduct of tbs ,tear all present—(hear, hear)—and whether the quill s , a its ia s: or or o w n er h is ol n a o a t n at a t d h m e tisttoomitioofn e to t g er e y th th er in i g ;am. that Keying said ...thus much, very feebly expensing ohj i opinion wltioh - I really and sincerely entertain of the 06., duet of the noble lord, 1 will address myself to Q. - mond subject, namely, the wee itself. Mr. Gibson asst that he for one cannot understand the object for which i; entered Into this war. I would ark him t o t a k e as -- gone instance ; and, though it may seem somewhat a school, boy illustration, I will apply it theless. There vas set of republics ones upon a time, in the very b oom 4 which arose a power gradually built up, artfully macaw& and eventually usurping dominion in thou n. ---. Europe is a similar combination, I may call it, erne a combination of separate states, in which there le now, uat S has been for some time, rising up a greet power, which k likely to overshadow all of them, and acquire domieitio over aIL The first body to which I hats alluded were the republics of Greece and Philip of k uo. don ; the second is Europe soil RWI•111. d a d j ust in the same way that the tar-seeing statesmen of AMI N pointed out the gradual increase of power on the pat 0 Philip, so, I say, that the tar seeing statesmen of Imp s now can point to the overgrown power, the gradually s. messing power of Russia ; and that as it was the intermit( the Athenian government to oppose Phiji,,, it is cur lilts,. eat to oppose Kneen. (Hear, hear.) The immediate cau l 'of the war was a Baseline breach of all the laws of oaths on the part of Russia. (Hear, hear.) Not the first breath by any moans ; but the danger had at last growa to 63 gigantic a dimension that even our peace-loving oin oty, our peace-valuing country , took fright, and opposed hermits the aggrandisement of Reason. Sir, in doing this, I myths% we have done wisely. (Hear, hear.) We should has dose wisely to have done it before. (Hear, hear.) i•ao though we had a great opponent in Napoleon, he bad IL mind comprehensive and foteseeing ; he saw the diem looming in the north, the great power circling the psle,al4 hanging over Europe threatening her with destractie• (Hear, hear.) We at length have seen the 'Worn of his vaticinations. And when the right hon. gentleman talks of the horrors of war, which we all know, and of the peed. ties it imposes upon us, which we all know, it is to dos us from the pursuit of that which our own Mt interest tells us we ought to pursue, namely, 6 3 Put down the power of Russia. (Hear, hear,) I am unable to go on further with this question. 1 will only say that I believe that it behoves every man fa'rly to eon. eider this question, and if he is entrusted with power one his fellow-men, to face it openly and avow his opinions epos it, no matter what may be the consequence. I agree with the right hon. gentleman the member for Manchester tkat it is probable that the people will in a abort time gat tired of the war, and that we, who are on the popular side sow, ' will have to encounter great obloquy, I am prepared to encounter it, and, being prepared for it, if diabetes should overtake our army, I will bear my portion of that obloquy. But still, looking to the honour and safety of the country, I say that this is a jut and ascemary war. Lord C. HAMILTON contended that the fact of Loug Palmenton's speech having been received without my marks of sympathy from the house, mutt induce every Om to feel how grave was the position of public affairs. He urged that the only reply given by the noble lord to Er. Giboon's question was that every one, every peanut, busy what was the origin of the war. He pointed out that Lord J. Russell, and the French envoy, is the recent negotiations, were both satisfied with the terms of peace proposed by Austria, and if that was so, it appeared that that noble lord's opinion had been ignored by the ministry, and they had forced this country and Fresno into a continuation of the war; while they did not condescend to state what means they had for carrying on the war, or on what terms they would Lereatter be resdyto conclude a peace. Referring to an observation of Lord ' Palmerston's with regard to the condition of Rene, he urged that Turkey had been utterly ruined sod destroyed by this war; and he expressed his great surprise that Lord Palmerston should speak with any satisfaction of the condition of the Principalities under the occupation of Austria. He concluded by Wes government nme d n e t m sh an ou d l i d ng thbeat beforecom p el l e d , 0 make parliament a n e a z e p p l a k r i a t t e d d eth. th a ration of the objects they sought in the war, the seam they proposed to adopt for carrying it on, and the limits by which it was to be bounded. Mr. DISRAELI said that with reference to the quaint raised by the motion of the right hon. gentleman the member for Manchester, he wished to make a few observe Lions, and he should studiously avoid on that occuion, and at that hour, any dismission on the subject of the conduct of the war. They had heard that night some remarkable revelations and confusions— (hear, tear)—made on the part of a minister in a high and peculiar position, such as he thought bad never before been equalled in the memory of any member of that how. (Hear, hear.) What was it that they had heard that eight so unexpectedly—(hear, hear)—and which, if he wu ant mistaken, was destined to be impressed most seriously sad moat palatally on the opinions of this nation ? They had heard that eight admissions from a noble lord recently employed by his Sovereign in the high parities of a minister plenipotentiary in the negotiations of subjects of no leas importance than peace a war, that ►fter having given, as he admitted, great labour, care, and anxiety to the prosecution of he duties, be had arrived at what he thought a favourable solution of the difficulties with which be had to contend, and that in his own mind he had accomplished a result which would have secured peace for his country, and that in order to recommend that course to the government by which ho had been employed, he returned to England. Strange to say, it seemed that the noble lord, bodice no sympathy on the part .of his colleagues, finding that they did not agree in the policy which he recommended, and that they decided on a course totally adverse to that which he wished to sanction ; that they decided on course no leu important than the prosecution of a war which, in his opinion, ought to have terminated—the noble lord acceded to the suggestions of his colleagues, re mained in the cabinet of which: he had been previously a member during the negotiations—remained in that cabinet, he the minister if peace, as a war member of that cabinet, and recommended a vigorous prosecution of the war in his place in parliament. (" Hear" and cheers.) The reams given by the noble lord for the extraordinary course he had pursued appeared to him (Mr. Disraeli) no less singular than the conduct of the noble lord. This was no slight question. AB hon. and 1 d gentleman who had preceded him in the de bate, said very fairly,that this must be considered as the most important of questions. There was hardly a member of that house who would place measures regulating our inter• nal condition—however high he might place them—on the same categery with the question whether peace wee to be accomplished or war prosecuted. The noble lord Ind told them that he thought it his bounden duty, .notwithstand ing his conviction that peace might and ought to have bets obtained, that it was his duty to support the prosecution of the war as a member of the cabi net and a member of that house; and he rested his vindication of the course he had tall on a principle which, he said, ought rather to rails his character as a public man—namely, that he bad sae* Aced his private feelings to a sense of public duty. He (lie. Disraeli) differed with the noble .ord. The questiem of peace of war, especially in the circumstances in whirl the country was placed, was one which ought not to be an rpm question. (Hear, hear.) After the very extraordioari revelations they had heard that night, he wished to ask the hums whether they were for peace or war; b ecau se, what • owe opinions might be entertained on either side of the house, they must all be of opinion that there was but little chance of • satisfactory peace or a successful proseculia of the war, if, in the bosom of the cabinet, such contudisteff views prevailed. (Hear, hear.) That was the gondol which the country should entertain, after the startling rat 'shone made by the Secretary of State, which would long linger on the ear of the people of Engles/. Be wanted to know why the cabinet did not ratify the labours of their own plenipotentiary? lie thought the noble lord had a right, generally speaking, to exercise re• serve as to the policy of the government and the circles• dances that might influence has conduct; but when the/ found a member of the cabinet sent to negotiate a latest and succeeding in that object—for the noble lord did seemed --still remaining a member of the cabinet, altbolgh his labours were unratified— (hear, hear) —they bd a right to expect from • government, ea CA. **sited and so situated, • frank exposition of the moons which induced the noble lord not to accept tbs labours of his colleague. (Hear, hear.) Were the terns deemed insufficient ? Wu Rus sia considered not to hes made sufficient sacrifioes ? That would be a fair objectica Bat then they had a right to know from the government what sacrifices would satisfy them. (Hear, hear.) Vale/ they dealt frankly with the people in this natter, especially after what ocenned that night, they could cot call tapes the country to make greet sacrifices. If they Ind that they could not support their colleague in the MUNI he took, that they did not think he showed that preeciects and acquaintance with the subject which they expeeted, that greater sacrifices were to bo demanded from Berns than those he obtained, that would be intelligible; bat then the noble lord would, perhaps, think it his duty is quit the cabinet of which he was so great a sell/ This, then, wu the end of the breaking up of cabinets, that great investigation of the conduct of the war, of their perhuman energy and transcendent experience of the isl lord (Palmerston). (Laughter.) This was the penis; the right man in the right place. (Laughter.) This ter I the end, that even the question Peace or war r become a mere party conaiderstion—(hear, hear); that the interests of th 3 country were mended to the menace of a majority ; end that the tumultuous and turbulent wow I Mimed Downinermtreet had baffled all the sagacity of the nendsiences of Vienna. (Cheers.) Mr G. GREY denied the ezi•tesee of division M the gibet. declaring that on the question of the war they wee r ha ' 4a4178(004 the noble lad flr