The Press. — London, England, 1858-05-01 00:00:00

Mr. S. HERB ERT, observing that, although the nomination system was gone, that of competition had been put back, explained the principles which he bad laid down upon the subject of examinations, depre cating any further inquiry as superfluous. rhe discussion VMS continued Lo r d G. H. Vansittart, Mr. P. O'Brien, and A. Vane- Tempest. Mr. Bourne' said the motion, in its present form, would prevent any improvement, and that the house ought to know what the actual state of things was. Mr. MONSELL having made a verbal alteration in his motion, to meet Mr. Roebuck's objection, after some remarks by Mr. WALPOLE, who recommended that the matter should be left to the Secretary for War, and by Captain Vrviar, the house divided, when the motion of Mr. Monsell was virtually carried by 217 to 177. On the order for the second reading of the Excise Duties Bill, Mr. DEASY pleaded for the removal of certain local burdens in Ireland to the Imperial Exchequer as a set-off to this tax. Mr. P. O'Berzx moved to defer the second reading for six months. This amendment was seconded by Mr. ESNONDE. The SOLICITOR - GENERAL observed that the grounds upon which the increase of the duty upon Irish spirits had hitherto been resisted had been prac tically shown to be illusory. Objections to the equalization of the spirit chilies were offered by Mr. Grogan, Mr. M'Cann, Mr. Cogan, Mr. Kirk. Mr. M'Evoy, and Mr. M'Carthy, and some of the objections were answered by Lord Naas. Upon a division, the second reading was carried by 227 to 35. _ _ Other bills were advanced a stage, and the remain ing business having been disposed of, the house ad journed at a quarter-past one o'clock. HOU SE OF LORDS—Tuzsosy. OATHS BILL. The house having gone into committee on the Oaths Bill, _ _ The Earl of WtexLow moved an amendment to the first clause, omitting the words declaring " that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state, or potentate hath or ought to have any jurisdiction, power, supe rioritv, pre eminence, or authority, ecclesiastical or spiritual, within these realms." Believing that the affirmation contained in these words was centrary to the fact, as presented by the legalized status of the Roman Catholic hierarchy in England, and the allegiance paid by English Roman Catholics to the Pope, the noble earl maintained that the phrase ought to be cancelled from the present version of the parliamentary oaths. The amendment was opposed by Lord LYNDHURST, and ultimately withdrawn. The LORD Cfp.westmoa moved the omission of the fifth clause, under which a Jew was allowed to take the oath by omitting the words "on the true faith of a Christian." On constitutional grounds he insisted that a perilous precedent would be estab lished if a single constituency, merely by persisting in an illegal act, were permitted to overawe the Legislature. On the religious question, he argued at much leopth in favour of maintaining inviolate the Christian character of the House of Commons. Lord LYSDHURST defended the clause. He pointed out the risk of unseemly collision that would be in curred between the two Houses of Parliament, or between the Commons and the legal tribunals, if that house proceeded, as had been threatened, to admit Baron Rothschild to his seat by a simple reso lution of their own. The question had occupied Parliament for very many years, successive measures being carried in the Lower House by constantly in• creasing majorities, while the majorities for the negative among their lordships rarely exceeded one tenth of the whole number voting. It was no doubt the duty of that house to stop precipitate legislation ; but they ought not to reject a measure so perse• veringly urged by the Commons, and enforced by the opinion of the people. Before assuming so ob stinate au attitude, they should be quite sure that they were standing on a rock. The clause, he re marked, was framed in stnct accordance with the principle recognised in all the law courts and public Offices, that an oath should be taken according to the formula most binding on th 4 conscience of the deponent. Lord Lyndhurst then adverted to the religious arguments, and vindicated the right of Jewish subject s to a full participation in all the pri vileges of citizenship. The Duke of l'itsaidioaouGH supported the amend. went, as did the Duke of RUTLAND, el. The Clause was defended by Lord Stuart de Red thee, Earl Granville, Lord Stanley of Alderley, and m. • L. • Lod '":14111 of anuouderrj. It was opposed by Dungannon and the Biibop of Caibel, Their lordibips divided-- For the clause Aplust .. 119 ........ Maiori4 opines Ow clam era THE PRESS, MAY 1, 1858. The hill as amended was then passed through committee, and their lordships adjourned a4a quarter to ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS—TunDAy. The HOM E -.- - SECRETARY,repIyini to Mr. Cross, stated that a bill designed to continue and amend the Corrupt Practices at Elections Prevention Act was in course of preparation, and would shortly be introduced. General PEEL, in answer to General Codrington, said that Enfield [rifles had been supplied to every regiment sent recently to India. In all 82,000 of this description of weapon were issued for the service of troops in that country. OF JUSTICE. MO lld'hfAnoht moved fora select committee to inquire into the expediency of further improving the administration of justice by increasing the num• ber of assizes and assize towns for civil and criminal business in the several counties of England and Wales. The HOME SECRETARY remarked that the in quiry suggested had been included in the far more comprehensive investigation completed by the oom missioners appointed last year, and whose report MO already before the house. In a practical point of view the object indicated by Mr. M'Mabon could only be accomplished by a large increase in the judicial staff of the country, involving a considerable augmentation in the public expenditure. He pro mised that the Government would not lose sight of the subject, if any opportunity offered for increasing the facilities at present afforded the public in this respect. After some further discussion, in which Mr. Had field, Lord Goderich, Sir G. Grey, and other mem bers participated, the motion was negatived without a division. MASTERS AND WORKMEN. Mr. MACKINNON moved for leave to bring in a bill to enable masters and workmen to form councils of conciliation and arbitration. The motion was seconded by Mr. THORNELY and assented to by Mr. WALPOLE. Leave was then given to bring in the bill. COUNTY FRANCHISE. Mr. L. KING sought leave to introduce a bill to ex tend the franchise in counties in England and Wales, and to improve the representation of the people in respect of such franchise. Observing that., in the hopelessness of obtaining any comprehensive measure of reform, the only course left was to enforce in detail improvements in the electoral system, the boa. mem ber proceeded to describe his measure. The chief feature of the bill was to extend:the franchise to 101 householders in counties ; and its effect, as he con. tended, would be to remove many of the anomalies and inequalities which now existed.in the represents live system of the country. Mr. BYNO seconded the motion. The CHANCELLOR of the ExcuE4aEft objected to the bill, not because it extended the franchise, but on account of its partial (-partition. In practice he believed that the measure would create worse ano malies than it removed. If passed it would inter pose serious difficulties in the construction of any comprehensive scheme of reform. The county electorate already gave, on an average, 3,300 voters to every member, while in the boroughs the number was only 1,280; and this disproportion must undergo serious aggravation if the present proposal was adopted. Declaring that the Government would seriously devote themselves to the preparation of a general Reform Bill, Mr. Disraeli met the present motion by moving .as an amendmentithe.previous question. Lord J. RUSSELL thought the bill now presented was calculated to effect a moderate and beneficial reform ; and as it was so difficult to pass a large measure, the house would, in his opinion, do wisely to accept it as an instalment. He felt more distrust than hope touching the reforming professions of the present Administration, and on that account also he wished not to let go the bill now offered, and which he regarded as a " bird in the hand." Mr. LABOUCHERE also supported the motion, sharing the doubts expressed by Lord John as to the prospects of a Reform Bill next session. The discussion was continued by some brief remarks from Mr, Philipps, Mr. J. Locke, Mr. Clay, Mr. Bentinek, :qr. Collins, Mr. Stanhope, and other members. The question was then put with the amendment, but the latter was not pressed, and the motion was agreed to without a division. Mr. JOHN LOOFA obtained leave to bring in a bill to amend the Act 0 and 6 William . lV., c. 03, relating to weights and measures. Mr. PULLER moved a resolution : That this house will tomorrow resolve ItseK into a oommittee to oonsider the expedieney of providing for the repair of churches cud the inaintiniuft of ohurohyards, by substituting for 'hush Wes sash an annual rent. nUme upon all Itinkikiamals In rapist of wbleit shank rtes nay NW be bllfftilly 4111.11N4 upon the 00040011 will fairly represent the total annual amount now raised by church rates ; such rent-charge to be a fixed and uni form poundage on the rateable value of such haredits meow, and to be made a charge on the owners. - - - Mr. Burrow moved, as an amendment, the fol lowing resolutions : That it is desirable that in some parishes power should be given to make an addition, to a limited amount, to the tithe, in order to maintain the !abaci of the eharches ; and That in some parishes in towns power should be given to the churchwardens or the vestry to place a rental on a certain proportion of the sittings. Sir G. LEWIS entirely dissented from the plan of Mr. Puller, because he proposed a general, new, and compulsory charge upon the real property of the country for the purposes of the Church, the present rate being a parochial rate, imposed by the vestry ; and he would impose the tax in all those parishes where church rates had been practically abolished. He objected to Mr. Buxton's amendment upon similar grounds ; that would also impose a new general charge upon real property. The house, be said, must choose between a total and immediate abolition of church rates, and a modified form of the ex isting rates. Mr. NEM:MOAT& supported Mr. Puller's motion. Lord J. Russell. said, after hearing this dis cussion, he was compelled to say that the objec tions of Sir G. Lewis to Mr. Puller'e plan appeared to him to be sound ones. At the same time we could not have a national establishment without some provision for maintaining the fabric of the , church; he could not, therefore, vote for Sir J. Trelawny's bill, but he was ready to consider any fair proposal for an equivalent. Mr. WALPOLE agreed that the abolition of church rates without an equivalent would be putting into the pockets of the landlords what did not belong to them. But the objections of Sir G. Lewis to Mr. Puller's plan were, he admitted, unanswerable. He pressed the members of the late Government to bring forward substantially the propositions upon this question which they announced when in office. After some observations by Mr. WIGRIX in sup port of the motion, Mr. BUXTON withdrew his amendment., and Mr. PULLER offered to withdraw his motion, but this was opposed, and, upon a division, it was nega tived by 317 to 54. A warm discussion then arose upon the subject of a bill to amend the law of church rotes, of which notice bad been given by Mr. Moots, but which was not then pressed. The remaining business and orders of the day having been gone through, the house adjourned at five minutes before one o'clock. HOUSE OF -WEDNZ SDI. T. Mr. CORD, in moving the second reading of the Agricultural Statistics Bill, showed how the want of information upon this important subject affected the interests of the producers of food, the consumers, and the monetary and commercial interests of the country. The first class included small as well as rich farmers, who equally suffered, he sail, from ignorance of these statistics. Upon the second &ass, more especially the great mass of the labouring com munity, a sudden and serious rise in the price of bread, caused by this want of knowledge, bore severely ; while the fluctuations in the price of cereal produce, and the enormous sums paid for imports of foreign corn, deeply affected the third class, tending to produce commercial crises. He then explained what was done in foreign countries, and the steps taken in this country to obtain agricultural statistics, and the machinery of his bill, which was framed, he observed, to meet objections, and which contained no provisions that could be considered compulsory. Mr. Pace". moved to defer the second reading for six months. The farmers, he said, to whom it was alleged this measure would be of use, were alarmed at it, and he wanted to know why farmers should he singled out-to have their affairs inquired into. He dwelt upon the obnoxious, and, as he contended, the inquisitorial and compulsory character of certain clauses of the bill, and observed that the only peti- lion on this subject from farmers—those of Lincoln- shire—prayed the house to reject this bill upon those grounds. Mr. Du CANE seconded this amendment. Sir G. LILWIS observed that, although he believed that the fears of the agricultural interest with re ference to the collection of these statistics were un founded, and that the alarm had been much dissi pated, the question remained whether they would be of any real benefit. He did not believe that they would be of the smallest practical present value, and he cited the opinion of Mr. Tooke, who said that, however desirable agricultural statistics might be in a general point of view, they were not likely to have the slightest induenoe in imputing steadiness to the markets, He should like to know, he said, what would be the probable espouse of oolleetlag these 6ffrieillturel etotlities is EngUM. Toying opt of