The Express. — London, England, 1850-06-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARL LAMENT. HOMO! OF LORDS —MONDAY, JuNi $. Lard CARrsaza. set Speekrr et 6 tido. k. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRIL•GINTRD MUIR OF INROLMIIIIT IN BANKRUPTCY. 1 tlLee z: 4 WHARNCLIFFI bee ills Clued Intelneel , peeping ter esspentition. MIMI& hi tit ihe sup betels sad learned lord ( iem lherle ) ...„ isteeded se reseed with Me *medusa* Bill whisk Ite tatredeeed at Ike ___sleet the seenee Lent BROUGHAM teiretted thst Es wee slit/s6 le pinyon* it sato the seat wens, la sesomptems d Me aleinee asks Loud Cheeenter IRABTINEI IN EQUITY _ COURT OF CRAM= BILL. Lead BROUGHAM rid 'raid paver Ibis sin for • fortaight. He thespir the petitioner is the ratter bruin before uteir lordship by hissoble Mead (Lord Witarsalite) (Ist le be essoprsard. APPEALS TO THE PRIVY COUNCIL FROM THE iccLutAanca. COURTS (warm Or DOG TRINE ) By lir Bishop a SALISBURY, hosavarioneVi n lib Arise Bishop et OLOUCESTIR, ham isam direr ;; Lard STANLEY. trews the Chanel II mad the of LONDON, tress a plait mot Ber l hum of this WL The Bishop of LONDON. is trier to situ tbs soma tubas, said be did so aides a most overpsweenn anti Of No dl tiaiiq of ski mak, and his owa mobility to a. inir *la like Jeers tit in import's" sot only will aauaa to the priasiple whisk it isvolved, bat Om Mau nature Ugly to arse ken tier lordship' , rejection of Us meamm. was us lima Int s4 10 is ea trairdinsey Monte; sit lo ma vivre surmise to Ms soaneasatt eg rt ia lb= of soberest, sad tratb, it was impailit M everostirata the waters impotence of tie Mina is which their lord ships sight arm*. He MI Moult impound with a Micah, of a podia, character, whieb lasersabirrefroely and fairly. but se hired is term Me madam of whisk weald sot give *Maw Ho mast eadosuar to lads.. Weir lordships to ley aside fur • sheet woos their every-day habit of regordian tarp nal legislation, sad to consider themselves members a that great s ' iritual lowly by which they were gaited to the church. He did rot desire their lordship tent est of their eusideration, while legislation fie the chanty the relation which she boil to the state to this Clanks opeatry. ad Me mama shams ad duties of them both. Oa Me 'massy it was Mouse be believed it metatial to Na wen-being ed 'tbo Mats that dm shun Mould be pertained to disibuto bee us pianos , tuitions without let or Itiodrossa Nat be isersesely metristod their lordships to &rem Moir auntie more slsssly thsa awn to Ms prow har Dalian al to laaaapas whin' to the await as Ms menu and keeper.! OW'. trath. Before bo reseeded OS Str1011•111 is auger of Me cubes limier eisesideva Vow it was aresmary Net ho Mould attempt to mum one or two obismisas of • mareal kis/ Mat We in ha goads tithe meanie. .16 might beesid—tis did sot haow Ibis It would be—that theliesseut Wt malted item the ezeitemet ma. aimed by a lomat jedgmet delivered by the Jadiidel Cam. alum of the Privy C .aseil, In • ease ese 'smelly knows le mak r it .smeary that he should describe it. Bat seek meet Weed the feet. It was quite true that hi very wrest impletthee it that plastered, sad the "main of feelings mad spading is whisk it had given rise had forged himself sad ahem te • mom mar and critical examination of the IMMO" of the tribunal of ultimate appeal in ecelesiaatisel cameo, with • view te dean some modification of the tabl ing Intelsat. end be senses sense very grave objeetions to it. Bet the it "NNW Map In the eeclienstieal Judi. eaten had bees ieag peretived; sad the only wonder was that it was net more dearly min an I enforced at the time when the court of delegates w abolished, and the judicial email substituted in its room. Why it wa not so, be maid hardly say. bat he premed this was the tease, sanely, that eases iavolving quakes of Antrim bad bees se rare, there having not been mere than three or four from the time of the lest institution of the court of delegates down to the period when the Palatial council was substituted for it, that no efts took such appeals to the new court into con widerstioa. The iudi isl committee of the privy council Was a meet unexceptional tribunal in everything bat eseleasatical matters ' where the tribunal ought obviously to be sesiposed of ambers of the estabinbed thatch. (Hen, hoer.) In 1847 he introduced a bill for proutodiag against elemymes is tartan eases, and it went so tor as to substitute • new evert of appal for the privy council. That bill was referred to • "sleet esamittes e wiposed principally of pens who bad illed legs, aim, and attended by all with the en ema's of Lord Drama; and tee dense which substituted • new court of appeal was sweated to by the whole of that melon committee, of which the noble and learned lord then en the woolseek (Lord Csmph,ll) was a member. la the following pees and ia 1849 he introduced the sass bill as amended by the Wan comittet, bat owing to various causes of delay whia he would not stop to explain, it was suffered to remain Is suspense. Early in the present session he had introduced the same bill, with a variation in the el toe which related to the court of appeal, Introduced is deference to the advice of pergola whose opinion was enti tled to respect. A different constitution win pro posed for that court : finding that the clans* in question did not give the satisfaction wLich he hoped it would, he brought it before his right rev. brstbren, and they were all of opinion that it we better to treat the subject as the by itself, and to bring is a distinct and sabstaetisl measure, rather than mix it up with questions of discipline or proMedings against clerks in ether cases. They met repeatedly in full mem* : oat of 27 bishops, 25 attended, and the result of the deliberations was a determination that this bill should be p al to the house, and submitted to their lordships' consideration. He would not go so far as to say that seem decision was perfectly unanimous, bat with parsec to the propriety of presentees the bill itself, the deci sion wee nearly unanimous ; end those who did sot agree as to the propriety of presenting the bill, did not so nisch differ with reference to the principle of the bill as to the ex pediency of briogiog forward such a immure without hest ascertaining whether it would receive the approval of the government. Ho believed that some of his right d brethren who mental to the bill in general, thought that in some particulars it might require alterations and amendments; and he could only say that he should be prepared to attend with the utmost N epal to any molilicati on which might be suggested, pro vided they did not materially and radically isterfas with the essential principle el the bill. What be had stated, be thought, was sufficient to prove that this mowers was not the offering of mist excitement, but the result of a eon elation of long shading, as to the nesesity of a change in the constitution of the court of ultimate appeal as regarded ecclesiastical cams. (Htar, hen.) He bad sow to deal with another °limiest of far greater importance, although not of greater weight; and that was the objection which he understood was likely to be male, and which in some quar ters bad been already made, that the present meanie would interfere with the royal supremacy. And if that could be sit are, he should be one of the last 'pinions to propose such • measure to their lordships' consideration. He was not one of them who thought that the supre macy of the sovereign, is matters ecclesiastical, we. an intolerable burden to the church, at least in theory. (neer, hear.) He feared, however, that there was mash misundentanding on this subject : this su premacy of the grown must be exercised by legally coesti feted triangle. It was not like a personal right in the scamige, which she might delegate to any iadi ; bet, es la the 24th Henry VIII., the king war " to render jostles and Ilan determination to all manor of persons raiding is the realm, in musts spiritual byjedges spiritual, and in causes temporal by judges tamporaL" In things spiritual and tem peral the royal supremacy was exercised under some ties ; and think» whatever mat was legally constituted for the purpose of scarring the Queen to exercise her suers may soalii not be held to interfere with that awaiting. It was quite tate that the "berth might have some reason to toomOsia of any seelosiestical tribunal erected without roa ms given in soatheation ; bat the sonnies could have nom on the score of supremacy. And he might a td that it was one great recomasedathe of the present bill that It did not propose to eabstitute aa estirely new court Instead el the existing ono, bat to confer on the present inset additional powers be enable them M form right and well-grounded Mimes in eetlesiastied matters, which would steed the test of legality. The linnet hid bees sadly miseadentood by the people of this meetly ; and be would therefor* prothed briefly to state the history sdistrartm of appeal in asses ecclesiastical. The trot statists which related to soak appeals was the 24th Hen. VIII., pealed in 1531, and which related to eases of wills, ma trimony, tithes, and oblations; sod masted that the animals should be frees the &rebates's to the bishop, and /ma the bishop to the arehbithems, the decision of whose court was to be flan, reserpthig Mine the 'deg me • party geseersed, and thee the eppeal was es be be the siert of the upper hoses of esevosatise. This was the lint est providing for appeals sealseissthel matters, and It was peassi before the laser- Use by pantheism ef the kiagte supremacy. had while it Illthillaised the pewee of the him to reader pram be ell duns of kis subjems, erelosiestioal and temporal, if Perier Med the Starve ef the spirituality to determine all quaffiline which MUM pints of demise or divine Ids. 'timid that part of the body paint called the spirituality ► bad &Imp " been deemed @sanest to determias any doubts whim .my sass of law dines some. tato question or spiritual beariag." The sent statute pissed was a the following year. 26 Henry VIII., mg. 19, which enacted that an shoeld Bs to the Liars is Chesney, nada which the =test do minos Meld be teal. No farther appeal wee torstiatted by that sat, but it was always usual to great a consmanion of review to revise the deckles of **(nest of Delegates. The third eat was the 38 Homy VIII., which was the lini to amen the repel sepromuy, eau whim desired the king to be the gamma head se Berth is mottoes easissiestical. That mete was repealed and wee never revived ; bet the Ist El zenith, cap. 1, gave the MOO power to the .rows, end also the masa of semis. kg it, namely the High Comatinthe Court, which was in many Papeete as Meilen of the liberties of the subject, sad whisk wee repealed by the 16th end 17th Chaska I. Bet neither the motitatith nor abolition of the High Commis sioa Court took away the ultimate "prams isradiethe to the Court of Delegates. The 2 and 3 Will. IV. abolished the Court of Delegates, which bad fallen into dime, and substituted en appeal to the king is council, which was to be Goal. Tits 3 sad 4 Will. IV. soastitated the judicial coat mitts* WI the privy coma, and appointed certain parsons amasses ef it, - and so the law now stood. It was new his duty to plat out the prin cipal objlestises to ;the mestiattion of the present court of eppeel. It ma palatal sad difficult duty, speaking as he did hi the primes of some members of tha. court, towards whom he felt the greeted respect. His objection was to the vinciplem of the suit NMI ra th er Um to the seeds in which jumbos wee administered In it, and sothiar could be better than the way in whisk it perfeemed Its civil (mean's. It we *V intim they some to deal with seelesiastical Celle effidealffinethell they wen mike iffibeeel illival como Le g l l.l ges sill r e eeing le the effineli m et thr iirthib ormi they wen ei the es 4 wuPwai WV' dsh that le lia q ma sad elmegb boa eei Meek ef eleeete le . Be ed it wee the indlnatka Mead Meth at the Gemmel with kw state al dismal* ogres/ !peek seesolly, It us the duty elel 'sensation of the mat t : meek Judges wields the terms du este. Now, it wee thes i duty Mem ! sem its destrise aid spirited discipline wholly inviolate; seegadly, M love es the Ise: meet a losefifille power ef war reedsy move le this mete; and tic remise to • Mk Mist sl appeal tidiest danger of MUM& with the math The whole OWN a his cireameit preseedeff ItPea _ o 2= thea *lithe, wire ege likely, In the puma Mateo M aide thithemithin, the here he mit Mime that dee mpai MUM efieeffir e ntw ea rived adva I ffid thelefk IRO Use le he as Ildbuieffi w &amp the duty imposed os it is M eth n a= le le it guested wholly of lay =et wlee Micsallisal by pruner mil night rives hrM "ibis lisa mblid by the alma. If lei IC MINA in *Woe where he moth is whisk mai net be ellensite. He !admitted it weer thong guiltless of ist•m% to the laity •thimlng the therith, beeline points Mich he believed and lenkhipe, or use tiny well Masud mail he able to say wee, or were not, moistest with M.dlaatdtea of the telmoth. Bat es the eau hand mew keleilleee of &Mine um, frem time te time, which bee rese as er u M the attentiu the laity, and whisk men those venal la theology Osumi • 41/1111•Ity . He meld ersmd • te r seillen el error bebrought before th e judicial W eke privy eau whisk th ey amt ally could let of w hisk they absekt.Jy did set en thee=illibe.l4ledilleest• Heal net therefore ante low It was w it these to &elk gewitieu of fake thetrine, whim it was be he elbesued that theme beet sad mare this mind, se weir the .sew of this eduanon,cousseed their toiling a large mid (ampules ales view el theekeloolimithee. There was, however, th* stew important point to whisk he wished to direct the attthe timer their 10-dsbipe. Their kWh* wore aware how meth of ter law had be.. frothed epee the drefeke el jedgesei hew seek rioted peeseienth Rug delis. tepee OM of Antrim Mimeo& by the Privy Ogneell, er_be erise sever rkr seffissiestieel ourt, beam • pegging. Punkas by therm medial** law. They deleemimil rile which the law, fre melee the statutikiolt eseggeds ; gad thus • ergot part of our law was met malleo„ ned wee not to be feud fa eery sestets or Gramm 110 is with the doe wises of the eliarth. We mated set mattes of new doc trines, we may 'puked fit sad prow expounders of the doetriaee that Met He reedgy - Medgeed that no mom mild he more esespeteat to dulls dipieled quorum on matters of last or law thaa time who iseastituted the it:l ineal of appeal from the misiethetisal surto. But he dis puted their sompeteasy to decide purely theological ques does. Notwitbstandisg their iikethimen about sot within( to interfere ia theological waken, k wen evident that their dubious did affect the holding lw the laity of the doctrines involved in thou theisioes. Thereffore, althensok they might eollut:vely sad iatileideally disclaim any iatestiosa of wishing to dads. • particular point of doe tithe, their daisies MI regarded a portion of the laity at least mounted to such definition, and was acted an as authoritative. The inconvee knee so adhered to the pie ties that It was impossible for the Judicial Committee of the Prigq Conseil, notwithstanding their disclaimers, to give • decision ea • Mat of doctrine without affecttca that doc trine ; and there was not a akeslaw of doubt that • mem pion of such deelsiose would have the effect net merely of iejuring the character bat the my stability of the cheese then. He Imams, that sem of the lay members of that tribunal might be very well reed ia divinity. halted he was acquainted with more thee gee judge who was deeply ✓ead in %flukey, bet these were exceptional hams, and could not be expected to he frequently met with. The right bon. prelate (who was occasionally very inondible) was then understood to may that there could not be • more proper triben .1 for the decision of purely theological and doctrinal questions this the bishops. And here he meld observe' that that had been the principle of oar eonititwion from • very early period—that was to say, that decisions in all spi ritual cases snould be left sot merely to eccl-siestical, bet to spiritual italic s. That bad been the spirit of our rued tenon from the earliest times down to • comparatively re cent period. He would endeavour to prove that assertion. He begged dem to remind their lordships of the dictum of that treat jurist, who was by unanimous cense.% the inter pretet of our mama law. Lord Coke said that certain it was that this kingdom had been best governed, and its pme and quiet best preserved, when both lay and eeclesise tieal judges kept themselves within their proper jurisdiction, without esuosehing or usurping one epos the other, sad that such esuosehments inn usur o atiacs when they did occur, were tee seeds of great trouble end inoonvenienes. Their lordships would, perhaps, smile if he talked of our Saxon ancestors, but he might go further beck still. How ever, it wee unnecessary for his argument to do so. He would only remark that in Saxon times the bishop and the sheriff of the county at togethor—the °pinkie of the one prevailing in spin: oil, that of the other in temporal, questions. According to a high authority, "the Court co Que , th's Bosch admitted that it doth not appertain to the Kthg's Court to determine *chime or heresies; and that where the original cause of the suit is tearer whereof the King's Court bath cognisance, the King's Court is to consult with divines to know whi thee it be schism or not." The Refer:natio Lepton Etc provided, " that where any cause should devolve to the crown, it should be settled, if a grave cause, by • provincial council, or by three or four bishops eppointed by the crown." Blackstone said, "If the cause of refusal te institute be of a spiritual nature, as he resy, particularly alleged, the fact, if denied, shell be determined by a jury ; and it the feet be ad mitted, or found, the court, upon consultation and ad vice of lesraird divines, shall decide ICS sufficiency." That we the precise constitution he desired t t introduce into tne jud.eial committee of the privy council. There could not be better judges of law than the noble and learned lords who formed tbat tribunal. But what he wanted wee that if a question arose whether the doctrine taught by A. B. was sound or heretical they should consult the leaned divine' of the church we to whether it was or wan not heretical ; and when be said heretical he meant not agreeable to the Church of Busload. Usti' the time of Henry VIII. the seelesies noel judges were all spirituel persons. Usti' that reign there was no trace of common law judges being on the commissions of delegates, nor, after that, one out of 40 till the great rebellion. The right rev. prelate then proceeded to stow that the early church had recognised the principles of regal supremacy, and that g 1 councils had been convoked by the emperors, who either attended then selves or sent delegates. But although they had that supre macy, they sever used it to overawe or dictate, and ealy seat their deliwates to see that all the proceedings of the councils were regulated seurding to the can mg of the church. The fish- rev. prelate supported his measure by copious refer ences to precedents and analogies, Amuse what had bun the practice of the Anglican and other churches in times pest and pieseet, as well as by pointing to the course pursued by the law cruets, who remitted gondolas o' science awl foreign law which were beyond their own immediate knowledge to bodies of arbitrators Moen from among men pro firsionally qualified to decide in the particular cues. He claimed an "qui power for the church, that, namely, of deciding upon points of her own doctrine. In reply to the objection raised in the public press that this ball gave the power of framing new doctrines, he had only to say that the court to be constituted by this bill would have no more power than the present court. He would cement himself with saying, in reply to moths, objection, that though heterodoxy upon the part of the bishops, if that were possible, might be a very good reason for calling upon the legislature to change the mode of sleet. tag them, yet that it was se reuses for depriving them of the exercise of their *Miens= emd rights when they were ap pointed. Another Missiles was, that thirteen or fourteen men were to determine the appeasement of others to hold office in *ocher*, but their iordthips should recollect that the bishops at peewee had the right, at the time of or dination, of provost*, teen hom entering the church-oil right which was sever exercised without jest reason. Their lordships should also recollect that it was tar better that thirteen er fourteen men should exercise sp. pellets jurisdietioa, than that the right should be milled to six or HMI. H. admitted that then might happen to he • difference of opiates among the bishops In cases of appeal, and that this was a great difficulty to los encountered by any such measure as the present. But let it be looked at boldly in the face. It was possible that the bill might be so gash had is committee es in a great mum to obviate it ; but, be the difficulty what it might, It was sot to be pat is compe- tition with the great principle aow to be mewed. (Hear.) Other °blew loos had bees made. One or two bad appeared . in • public print of great infitteue and talent, which had oet desk with the subject in any very hostile terms. It said "it might be doubted how far any aserantsly belonging to the politic a l i n t e rests of the day meld he taken to represent the authority of the church." He did not say that the bishops should represent the authority of the church; on the contrary, nobody could be said to moused the authority of the church except those asembled is esausatioe. Under existing circumstances, dm, the new evert wee Mt* be • synod, nor we It are remit the authority of the shush. (Hear.) He felt that he had already trespassed at greater Moth than he °tithe to have done—(heer)--still, the subject was emparatively new to their lordships, and he therefore felt it right to place sea ialonnetku before them, with the view of qualifying them to come to an impartial consideration. He thanked them for the petiole* with which they had listened to him. It now remained for them to decide a question which was of supreme importance to the church, namely, with whom was to rest for the time to come, at least for some considerable time to some, the final adjudication of the question, whether any pertimslar doctrine which wee alleged to be in contravention of the teething of the thereat of Ragland we really to or sot He protested mime any interims, which might be drawn Gem the stress he had laid either on sets of pirliameat, &Mint pasties, oe the toinuteaey or fitness of the judges Out he rested his eats as those arm& ; he rioted ir oa the vital and fundamatal ht—the inherent and indefeasible right--of the ehmlii, to • finally all questions of dGettin.. (Hear, bier.) The right rev, prelate, who was here affected to tears, manaluded as follows: My lords, I now commend the subject to your lordships' calm sad seri, .e consideration. I em, in conclusion, as I was at the commencement, almost overpowered by the oontemela tion of the PMI'S likely to follow from your lordships' rejee 'lon of this bill. I commit it to you, not without apprehen sion, but not without hope; and, looking at the greet im porusee of the cthestioa, you lordships will not be sur• prised if I unclad', with something more thus my um' anxiety respecting the fate of this measure, by expresaiag a &met wish that He who committed to Ills church the scared deposit of His truth may guide you to a right em elsolea. (Chun.) ti re u m , me ths hang mat thaithe bill be sew Dead a math time, The Menteis mf LLNBDOWNI wee Miley atheltde el the illeadvantsge Ite hawed under is befits NM plled h s l=thdr' ottait o t obe he • Asa ito t will math Atheeas rnad shaded bd. J o be Well 100011 Y 1 ' . erlati add 41 wag, cm (low. goer ) Is Mader musk that he eleardbie be eidfrie their paharp, a abs me ebb sahke les=lbysila hie opiates*. ereadid be enasmised le imply silo swear teary to his intrados% as the slightest toursslaat as that mewed and Mused bali st wham the tri th X t the 7 peelthe 12 saw =et w alOgr b .. _WV. OI.I r"P" esestreama arliestemly, sad, with terms to meet ef lahalithily. the meet sissies sad oaths ,« ret(ammo He thy at the mem that his meths troubltag tbilr llydsatpe thee early wee, that he objected at this eallilmat to ely4islatkia at ail apas this su Het, bor.) He tat may an as sack wadi be dellinthd ea haevitthk s = hollatZlietiOS upon the_part of the rutile , —Mat say alieratles of that *Ahead (dm Privy Coated) whisk was Me masa . satlesal tribemal of this eriantry far the Mial ef emiesiese deal eras, and whisk for osintartee bad enemies& that hum dos—that may seek aberstina, if made la hales at this to meat, would be blabs se naleseasiteuedea ; sad be wadi' see concesi from himself dist the &safety be reseed with this bill bad bees maned_ ky _the sUssadsfeelloa fah, if sot =- pressed, at the rematdsdiea of that aesioet tribusal—Ast u t ea ll awe of " Gorham v. The Ifishop of Hester ")—a which was fame* by the Mem, the law, and the mastitu , with the admisisamMaa of her ajesty's ( deo Cheers )He wadi diserable M from sot as a swabs/ Of dm telbenal, hat la ammo the publle of thin amstry, is commoa ke behoved with a great ponlon Mthed ergy of this cthatry—tvith •ea Wier portion of the Aare, that he did thesider the t given by that Miasmal to be ewe that had mufti to churchmen in the present unhappy—he had OWN elad distempered—Mate et the establiohnteat. ("Beam ham," sad cheers.) He believed it had gins es mash satleteadea as the nature of the subject and the diasulties of the cthe peradt•lal. (Hear, bear.) He therefore asked tisk lord ships whether any mous, radar team alemmeMathee, sot to modify, bat to set adds that tribunal, sad Move not a judgment, wittiest as °Oaths, stelpped was a measure which them who were met prerand to make a great change its the esastitaion of flhi mac they mould be willing to assist to f What would say lath celled urea emaskaiisaelly le advabisiff Mis law, 'Oak, if talia•sly after he bed rmaitemsd a emisfaa so snoops , 1 1 more f• alter the maalitaisa of isle mum ? Eleavese immediately after that Illaseriews mart, the Court of Sias% Ilea" pre sided over by Lied MessAeld, lad given ea mishit in idle celebrated sees it libel, or if immediately Oat the Court of Comma Pima had pin ta a esoliaa is the eau of Gmeral Wane. • bill were intgednald iato parliament to take away the right of decision from the Court of King's Bench, or to alter the eonstitutioa of the Court of Common Pldr, would sot ouch an attempt have been a reflective on the jedgmeats given in tbs. courts ? (Hear, bear.) Inevitably sack mast have been the ewe is the mind of every redectiag man ; and yet, although some noble !lords of the period referred to had been dissatisfied with the decisions of the Courts of siege H-eel and Com mon Pleas, not one of them bad ever attempted to take sway the powers from either it these courts. For these reasons he was not prepared to give his assent upon the part of her Majesty's go. verameat to any further proceeding with this bill, or with any other measure whatever at this moment, because he was certain that invites% misinterpre tation and misconostrfon upon the part of the public would be the inevitable result, if their I irdships smarmed this or any other meaqtre upon this important subjeec. He saw the strongest ”bjeetion to the measure now introduced. It struck a blow at her Majesty's prerogative. Kr the drat time it introduced into this country a tribunal, the opioioas of which, in the language of the bill itself, were so be considered as binding and conclusive." It deprived her Majesty of the power of exercising that, which nit from the Reformation alone, but from the earliest and bat days previous to the Reforestation, had been coosidered to he the special omega tin rof the grown—that of the government of the church. (Hear.) The Queen and her sidebars would be shaeklei by the bill, for neither could obey the oaths they had calm to set according to the deeisi as of their own minds. There was no doubt that sins' the Reformation the crown had uniformly exercised the power of controlliog decisions in ecclesiastical affairs ; and it was worthy of remark that the Court of D .legates was composed of sec! manias and civilians. The questions to be determined under this bill were ques tions of fact and not of theology, for the questions of theo logy had tor en waled as the R formation. Ifs was no friend to the expediency of reviving convocation, because he doubted whether it would conduce to tranquillity of peace to revive it at present, but it it were revised he would not *eel ude from it tie interior (Cheers.) He thought it would be unconstitutional and in the highest degree inexpedient to exclude the inferior clergy and only to include the bishops. His right rev. friend said that his object was to take the decision out of incompetent, and place it in corne petent hands—to give the substance to this sew tribunal and the husks to the privy council—but unless the object were to alter existing doctrine, and to intro :tic, new doe tribe into our ehtireb— The Bishop of LONDON disclaimed uy intention of that kind. ----- The Marquis of L aNSDOWNE was glad to hear it, but it was, however, the same for his argument; for, if the ob jest were sot to affect existing doctrine, but merely to exa mine and determine on mown .4 fact—whether this or that was or was not the doctrine held by the !Arden authoriti,e in the church of England then be contended that I-armed laymen accusomed to take and examine and tart evidence—were more fully acquainted wit's the principles of evidence than ocelesiastice, however eminent for their piety or their learning. What they required was a just decision of persons not pretending to be conversant with doctrine, but of persons able to distinguish between what were autho rities in mitten of theology and what were sot—(hear) — and this had been the stains course of the law and con atitutlen of England. (Hear, hear.) He pretended to have formed no opinion upon the particular doctrinal Tie,. (ton which had given rise to this bill, but looking at the deelaratioss of cur ancestors, and so far as he had had an opportunity of examining them, the doe trims of the most eminent divines—men holding various mid conflicting opinions on many subject/ boiling at the articles of our church themselves, and to the retorted opinions of the best writers and commentators on those articles—be had coma to the conclusion that it was the intention of thou articles, and that it was the in testiest of the bounders of the church to Lave a certain lati.ude of judgment and a certain freedom of conscience in interpretation of some doctrinal matters which may reasons. bly be obnoxious to doubt, and that to go back/rota that wise freedom of conscience end fie an arbitrary interpreta tion on all such points, so far from 'miming to peace and quietuses, would lead to dissenoion, difficulty, and ill will, and be the surest means of preventing the union of good and wise and holy men in advancing those great interesi in which our convictions as churchmen and our prosperity and happiness now and hereafter were involved. (Loud cheers.) The decision of a majority of persona, how ever learned, coming to the consideration of a question with preconceived opiaims, though it might be binding for a time, would act as an encouragement to agitation with those who aided with the minority with the view to obtain • reversal of mush decision, and who weld continue t > sets% and disturb the church until an alterelies in the constitution of the tribunal by reversing the sins of the majority, should enable them to asseen plish their object. (Haar, hear.) But while he meld not consent to maiflos the prerogative of the crown, as hitherto exercised is rasped to Mine questions of appeal, be was dim Posed to think that it might be desirable for the of showing to the public that these questione esW net be determined witeout the [great authorities of the amok befag tally heard and considered, that it should not be left to the crown or the President of the Conseil, as it had boon to him last year. merely to invite the atteadasse of certain members of the right rev. Moak, bet that every right reversed prelate should be de jute a somber of the judicial committee. (Hoar, hem) He was disposed to thick that might he • satisfactory the chuc k — e a change satis factory both to church and the publ and at the same time free from any inconvenience. (Hear, er.) Rethought also that for the satisfaction of the church it might be well to provide that no member of AM privy sonncil s not being a member of the church of England, should be allow e d to sit and decide on questions affecting the church. (Hoar, hear.) These were alterations he was disposed to think might be in troduced with advantage, but with regard to the present bill, being mavineed that is the present setsion it mold lead to no practical utility, and objecting to it generally on the grounds he had stated, believing that it would tend to k ee p alive as heat sad controversy, which might else be allayed, he felt bound to move that it be read • second time that day six mouths (Cheers.) Lord BROUGHAM feared chewers, he wuabout to take would give eatisfertioa to neither the right rev. prelate or the noble marquis, for he could not altogether agree with either. If he was called upon to say " Aye "or " No" to the bill as It now stood, he should vote for postponing the second reading. There could be no doubt that there was a schism la the church, and it was the duty of their lordships to take oars that they sanctioned no measure which should have the least chance of widening that schism, but at the same time they were called upon not to reject any measure without due consideration which was brought forward for the purples of healing the breach which existed, and pre 'otitis, further difference. (Hoar.) It was on this ground that he had determined sot to reject the bill Immediately, bat to give it a fair consideration, In order to see if it Might not be so altered (and as it now rioted he confessed he entertained to many parts of it issupersble objections) as to make it efficient for the object with which it was brought forward. (Hear) He believed, if the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council lad beta originally formed with the view to deter fn, eerie saw led questions, some other arrangement with regard to its constitution would have been made. (Hear.) But it would be disadvantageous to make an alteration in the 0311- siltation of any tribunal immediately alter any particular decision, issamsch sa it would lead to the opinion in the public mind that that decision am wrong, and that it was became of such decision alone that the *image was made. But be altogether objected to the play proposed by his right d friend —he &ejected to bind the Judicial Conn'ttroofdethde Privy Council by the &Maimother of any body, because he, a as • member of that committee, was sworn to administer poetise exordia( to his awn conscience, and not according to the views of an other body. Meer, hear.) His right rev. friend t.ad seM there wee aa analogy in the practice of the Court of Chancery for sanh• ?reseeding. It was true THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE .4, 1854.: }DWI ) M be. mate w. k *as is he. &at toottigi web dose, am Ins for Eh. OW Wel I ta1!,8441. Roiesi;sl TIII itillile!eidell A YE ta, blimps their +act, AT W hers? ii* (Hsu, r.) Certai a t _ —the mopes and oldest a the auras wee oph pee wee, hadlesert a grab truth, and to *abstain and be e,' witness of that truth in the earth. _ (Rear, hear.) If that were tilio shiest of thi church, it followed that there must, be at all times :Modes of declaring titt that Pisa was whenever It was ist or denial. if*, with whom *ft that pow**. lodged, with whom could it be lodged, • and by whom could that power be adoszntatered ? Could it be men without the church who could know no thing about the points en which questions might seise, or ems competent authority within the thatch who should limn the power of judging and deciding u i H4 a‘ble friend bad said That endesiestses wore the vitt ages In Eoliths- deal matters, becalm they knew too m about them. If ell they had to dowse to decide the grammatical Interpre tation of certain words, there was no reason why the mem bers of the Privy Conseil should be members of the church , of Zeeland, se hie noble friend h.d saggested—they might se well lave It to Jews to deride. Bet hi. (the Bishop of Oxford's) argument was, that a certain truth had been dope- sited is the church—a troth which could not be added to or diminished by time, that certain bodies had been coast', tilted a laity and clergy in that church—that certain regula tions and articles had been drawn up by the church for their guidon., and if any particle of that truth—not say new truth—and here was one of the fallacies of the argu ment on the other ride—bet if that truth, as originally en treated to the keeping of the church, was doubted, or dig =crirsestioned, there was a body within the church to It, As his noble friend had said, the greatest innova tion was time ,• and It was to prevent the innovations of time thatsuch a tribunal was necessary. He would ask the noble earl to go beck to former tinsee—to the Nicene council, in the diffaence between Arian and Athanesius. That esesecil met to decide what was the meaning of the word " son." The question was referred then to ec liselasti-s, because they wore esclesier les, the question being one purely connected with the church, and the okusch him accepted the decision then come to, and had acted upon it ever since. Bat did Atitemasius on that occasion propound a new doctrine ? No, but he pr.vented Arian from founding a new doctrine, and by showing whet was the truth, c-a firmed it against the heresy then attempted. And would the noble earl have that which was so settled at Nice be altered and rescinded by the judicial committee of the Privy Council, for the argument would really go to that length ? Theehurch held that the truth, as laid down, was right, and those who Were to decide what was laid down were those who bore office in the church, the part of the laity being to accept the trash as 83 laid down and decided. He repotted tea: his right rev, friend behind him (the Bishop of lit. David'e) had cast aside his respeesibility as an of of the church to decide l in such question,. lie (the Bishop of Oxford) lecked on his pceition in the church in the nature of a trust, not for himself but for others. Be and his brethrt nin the church were ministers for Christ'. sake and he had no desire to cut ..side that responsibility whi ch (I el had placed upon him. (Hear.) It would not do ler trustees to say, "we will not execute our trusts even in temporal matter., much len in tpireu el matters " They must not allow this nibbling away of the truth. If at any time such en innovation en darge-can it was at this moment. An impa lean of contro', impatience of all flied principle. of external truth, masons of the most fearful symptoms of the present day, and if they deprived the church authorities of the power of deciding what was right, they would do more to encourage that dangerous impatience than by any other means. If they dealt with the truth as a plastic form of moulded clay, which might be im pressed with any form at pleasure, they woald find them wiles mistaken; for they were Aealing with a living body : there was life in the church of Christ—the life of eternal truth. (Hear.) He celled on their lot dships to show rime de:erence to the vast number of the clergy who wind for this measure, and not t, do siotnee to the feelings of some . lot the most conscientious men in this country. it had bon said that the number of thole who demanded the pr pea.d charge wee but small ; hut in his own diocese 10 of the elerry had petitioned in favour of the second reading .-f this bill. In the same county the L Lieutenant and •grea• per Ilion of the gentry ; and the subject:had agitated the great body of the clerey. Their lordships should !remember that between puritanism on the one aide and It tmani-m on the other the church of England had always been held to be the mean, and they should take care bow they injured that mean by their present decision. He regretted the impetuo sity with which the noble marquis bad addressed himself to the subject on the part of tee government. The noble martian had, in fact made a declaration of war against eve ry memoir of the church of England who was not willing to give up everything most sacred to the church to the decision of a lay tribunel. As to the supremacy of the crown no man was more ready to support it rightly understood than be was, but he toiled upon tee crown not as empowered in the per son of the individual wearer to decide on points of &retries., but as the ultimate court of appeal embowered to consider and decide by means of its ametomed agents. Al he asked wee that the law lords should on points of doctrine have the assistance of the spirimal judges, for that was the ancient title of the prelates of England. He besought their lordships to do an act of simple jiptece to the church of England. Let them not be led sway by the , far, that by doing so they would inval date a cer tain judgment. Lot them deal with the church of England generously and largely, go into committee on this bill, and, the principle once established, all faults of detail might be easily remedied. He warned them not to alienate from themselves as a party the whole b idy of the church of E.g. land. (No, roe) Yes, he repeated, the whole body of the church; and he warned their 1 trdsh,ps not, by refusing this bill, to do such an injury to the state. After a few words in explanation front the Marquis of LANSDOWNE and the Bishop of OXFORD respictively, The Earl of CARLISLE cap d his regret that he felt bound to oppose the motion of the right rev. prelate. In entering that oppoe.tion he did not wish to be undenteod as asserting that a.nie modification might not be made at the proper period in courts of ecclesiastical appeal. He should not be indisposed at the proper period to make such mem bers of the epiecopal bench as were members of the privy council members of the Court of Ap peal, bat he was not disposed to give a second reading of the present bill with a view of making either of those alterations. First, because those principles were st vari ance with one another, and secondly, they were opposed to the pr nciple of the bill. After akw other observa tions, which were very indistinctly heard in the gal -1 lery, the noble earl concluded by expensing his deter mutation to vote against the second reading ; and he hoped that the defeat of the measure would put a stop tofurt ber discussion on the subject The Bishop of LONDON briefly replied. Lord CAMPBELL explained that by the bill, se it web framed, the decision of the court of bishops would be condo glee, and the Quoin would have no discretion ; it did, there fore, aim a blow at the prerogative of the crown, The Duke of CAMBRIDGE said he should vote in favour of the bill. He regretted to find himself op-toted to the go vernment, but he actedconscientioudy, and not from factious or party motives. Their lordships then divided, when the numbers were : Content. Non-contents B4-33 The house then, at half. past 1 o'clock, adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, JUNE 3. The 8r took the chair at 4 o'clock. LONDON, EDINBURGH, AND DUBLIN GAZETTES On the motion of Mr. Howe, the following returns were agreed to : Return of the total amount paid for printing and publishing the London Gazette in each of the years 1848, 1847, 184$, and 1849, exclusive of stamps and paper, distinguishing the number of sheets composed, and whe ther the work was done by contract or otherwi-e, and by whom done, with the average price paid for each sheet, and the expense for publishing. Also, a balance-sheet for each of these four years, show in., the profit or Nee in each year on the London Gazette ; also, if profit, stating to whom paid or disposed of ; it WIN stating from what funds supplied. Similar return for the Edinburgh Gazette, for the same period. And, similar returns, yearly, for the Dubhn Gazette, from the period when the patentee was paid a commuted allowance. Accounts of the government establishment of the Royal Hospital for Seamen at Greenwich, in the year 1849, stating the several *Moen in the military department and in the civil breach; the number of peasionen, and establishment ; the number of superannuated officers, sad the total expense in the year. And of the monies expended upon repairing sad extending farm-houses, &c in that year, exhibiting the same kind of account in detail for 1849 as the Return, No. 112, of 1840, exhibited for the year, 1839. POST- OFFICE. LABO UR. Mr HUME wished to ask whether the government would assent to the appointment of a committe•, in consequence of the address to her Majeety, agreed to on Friday last, with reference to the suspension of the mails on Sunday—(hear, how)—ln order that evidence might be taken, and it might be ascertained how far, and at what unifies, the object could be carried out. (Haar, hoer.) He was sure the noble lord would excuse his &liking whether, if measures were taken fur the appointment of that committee as speedily as possible, he would oppose or support such a committee. Lord J. RUSSELL mid be could not at present state whether be would agree to the appointment of suck a um , mitts.. If the hon, gentleman would give a notice on the subject, he would consider whether he could tix an earl y day for the discu s si on o f th e matter ; b e t w h en this could be dose was of merle uncertain at pr. sent. PROTECTION TO NATIVE INDUSTRY. Mr. DISRAELI gave notice that he should this day present a p.tition from the county of Lancaster, signed by 18,000 landowners mansfuturers. farmers, artisans and labourers, praying tor , more fair and equitable legislation with respect to home industry. REPORT OF THE BOARD OF HEALTH. Mr:bSl3oailleak;dwiiiit;nport Viii:ffoord of Heath, whisk had sprang la lb, "mimeos ofikal see is seas %ruses Anatol solar to be bardb,••• E. WBY. wly ter isidigia.4l47 as - law aura to ay sewn of Imo 'Ala WON Sisal is' , to le opportios to tbo bill, atisodif list bow isi *bet rout ens betted by the a• sew as sow proms, so far mot t le lam low •341n14 was be au stir- •,, ' ' ~:. ',. soma lea sid toad to prompts w # ll • A i r bie• P g i... A lto 'of iir au*, ia, £ 'moos ea is • ... • it;/ .. ... . lad Siva to parr Oak y holl hl a priftralsr *Atte gai a* 1 •. : * 4, ; . J ~. • • ,ea tkie eraleasa —re-. • N tits Quota's Bata, it .. . ~ f;:i .'es It tip Mit he wages , taW e es i t S froofer Mile sr Is wan I thedest . trueletee•e... , • . he .._ a t b i b s sp arit 4 w ok , ris tee. {,red tides sot settisitod elibit • S adilielb.,l4, • , • ' ,of Se threat which het lodes afeeilt a bffilitt *ta t helot est: w' . , fel. bted bolded Wok that 4. 4 tad the site t taut was the those who re • • • the woad reeding of till* bill seat be tar The &Mei stlll Wag valaddatetry regarded Ia .4 ag a' whit roue alabair litOgTe, and to re- ins vest to tin sad titre destrs_ c wesibat soup a arpioa of third* sod row; bet baser Ito ha Mute was Wilinir - ) pai r Vlll: Valos's k ,fa east to onside, tits quotas fairly, to m- iss wAs . Ast,jk„, hot ofp • adept ,ot 011. tall teat *Os' Malik& to rase of *ow great pria- ezeldir , ass essaiss of hie. dides that 'hoer was sot .tbo post dales plat, h jedousset ha' - ii,_ : (Lett ,Isedlitow.) kw , '{bat which, otweehttlet, tame .be aid erd red oath a rerun *Wag elate Id*. __._,• regard to lota . 'fad tboroar7i 'WOW he *old boo .bassist peas veldt eadleget de itrosietenfly4l - Mn et asks • las pattide witioh bp " felt a as, rah, wins it world, an WSW the doper At jellaba bay as a erotism to codas . Watt was the object lad doss. tat bin tappets atom la whiA t twmag-ettes pupas of estettorsit i Was it the wIN gratiliostiotri air m A was, gaol arcs to &aids kpla i cof donuts*. hangs ? Ws* it as lastitialee 'Woe men sight be long to Lotion said am point we. wait daffias, while thirteen at they haltered to o el . _,ab Wean It lest their elate, Leek it we. tat, day did sot arm - bat thin wan talr Ai aetoseldis, Sr thtlf . elibli P_ (13oar,htst.) Carta*, net fte• rtatii 7,1,0° twesy-ehren d f doettine. point t 4 Oairteed Soy et anvil, _ _ wee any a ••• Is Wes ef Se tenets. TIM week, beibbjf ninatesy would rush and the len ohs the point the greater wield be Se einisony. had always °Served that unlike elution 1011411 Mi Serillinietica was la (aural ratio to the I. is (gfitlaglad infiestany, the IS the value el d am paint tee Aegean , beneath the perdu the greeter the elenlese with "Wit they disputed It. (Laughter.) f~aat that was net all. fish a diens week involve a iieloa.eanan on the chants, for there would be tonnes penis@ awkilig in offset that thirteen of their le ogessidl liginates were heretics. (Great laughter.) le WMg ties) There were, no doubt, great diffleidlies , nibs OM; hue is Mosinee there was another way by whisk ;IMF tatlgtt kerafto.44 Be bogged to suns his misers sore row for the present date of things, as a sincere member of that Soar& which be believed to be the most pious, the most beetled, and the mast charitable and Senn of ottristian eemannithe. Other churches might be mere pions, or mom binned, bat ha believed that nos i he the Aniline church teembined within ban/ so much piety, so mush learning, so such christian charity, and so mush toleration. That that Aura might rise up with renewed lustre and strength from in temporary obsenration, wee the prayer is which he most ardently and siseerely joined the right my. prelate who bad letroduoid this bill to their lordships,. (Clatters.) The BISHOP of BT. DAVID'S said that he bad ori ginally hoped to be able to give his support to the bill ; but deer mature sonsideration he had bees obliged to abandon dot Ise. Ile looked upon this bill es a Resins intended to nest the eau of the nest ernitenient, and therefore they Send oensider in how far it was calculated to meet the mdgessies of that nos. If it was a meagre intended to re store peace and harmony la the church, be wished to know what party it was calculated to ocineiliate. They knew that Sere was a large and powerful party in the church who, although they differed from certain doctrinal opinions, sup. posed to have been of by the runt judgment, yet secsulered thou opinions as substantially helmets to the etterch, and they had already expressed their dimatialection with the bill. Those who entirely dissented bad also ex pressed their dissent, nor would it shore up the thin parti tion which divided them from another commitais. Tiose who approved ol it were only those who biked upon it as simply • stepping-stone which might advent* the cause of something beyond. It would open a new arena for theo logical c ,ntruversy, and the effect must be to invite new combatants. He believed in the new smart of appeal there would be fined men of great impartiality, but its snosess would not rest with them, bet with a few tinqsiet who would rush into the arena, and use the instraniel.t placed in their hands for the purpose of widening that breach in the church which their lerdships must all deplore. If he thourbt it bad been possible to introdueesucb amendments in the bill oohed been suggested by the noble and learnt :I kid who had last addressed the house, he night support it, but he coal t not pin his faith even on the ability of the noble ono learned lord to execute what he had sug Jested. He shoslii not like to divide azainst a mea sure supported by az many of his right reverted brethren, and he might even be disposed to share with them the reepondbility of a measure which he thought neverthe lees would be produe ire of evil rather than good. - - - - Lord REDESDALE was sorry to have heard the speech of the rich; rev. prelates. It wee impossible that mitten In the char h could remain long as they were. He knew no parties In the church, and thought they ought to legislate for the cline& as " the church," being board by no canons and liturcies. He believed there was no doubt as to what were the doctrines of the church ; and it was not deckled that Mr. Gorham was right in hie views by the judicial com mittee. Tar grant liberty to the clergy was en injury to the laity. It Mr. 03rheen was permitted to hold the opinions which he had avowed, preens who resided in his parish must submit to his teaching. A right rev. predate who had just come into the house ( the Bishop of Worcester). uspended a buret* who had declared doctrines of • Roman Catholic charaver. lie was right in doinc so, and so he believed was the right rev, prelate who had refused to induct Mr. (I wham, because he denied one of the most fundamental doctrines of the church. The bill before the house was the only one he could accept as • church tribunal. Lord CAMPBELL did net consider the subject under discussion to be a party question, but a great constitu ional one, and be should have been end if he could have sup ported the hilt before the house. H. bad great ?septet for the right rev. prelate who had introduced it, and there was no more hooters friend to the church than himsel', for it had conferred the greatest biasing' on this country. It appear. d to him, however, that the bill was unconstitu tional, awl calculated to bring about that disruption of the churen which it was so desirable to avoid. The objecti-ne to the judicial committee arose from their funeti3llll not being sufficiently understood. It was not their duty to lay down can ins, but to explain documents, and in his opinion to con strue the articles, the liturgy, and formula of the church ol England, tne judicial committee was better fitted than the proposed tribunal ol Maim (Hear, hear.) It was objected th ,t this was • lay tribunal; it was no more so than the Curt of Arches, or the Court of the Chancellor of the Bishop of Durham ; laymen were called in in those court, to assist ecclesiastics. His learned friend, Dr. Lushington, represented the Archbishop of C bury, and Sir Herbert J Fust the Bishop of Durham. It appeared to him that offence had been most unneeedaorily Laken at this lay tribunal in eontrddistinctioe to the interior courts from which the appeal had been made—forgetting that those inferior courts were c oiduered by lay persons. The bill was really such • mockery that it would be the more respectful course towards the reverend bench opposite re mine that it be read that day siz months. If the 27 bishops were required by the bill to be unanimous it would not be so objectionable. But not so. The majority was to decide on all occasions, and the names of the dissenting bishops would be recorded as the abettors of heresy. The Bis..op of LONDON explained. L.ird LY [TEL lON fclt it hie duty as a latmaa to sup port the bill. He thought it was necessary to provide by a more distinct enactment against the consequences of • di parture from the settlement of the reformation. lie sup ported this bill rho because he wished to stop the war of parties, to prevent further schism in the church, and to close up, not widen, the breach which now unhappily existed. The Earl of CHICHESTER opposed the bill, not be cause he was a supporter of the government, but on the principle that he thought it a direct violation of the supremacy of the crown, and calculated to introduce great changes, not merely into the constitution of the country, but what he valued more, the constitution of the church itself. Lord STANLEY said he should not enter at any length upon the subject under discussion, but he could not resist the opportunity to express his regret that the noble marquis abound have thought it necessary to plain his veto and that of the government upon the introduction of any measure of any description or oharaster intending to abate that which was acknowledged to be a great existing evil at this moment. The noble marquis admitted its existence, but seemed to think its extent was magnified. The evil was, that the church of England was placed in a more disadvantageous position than any other reli gious body upon the face of the earth— that she had no authoritative plan of declaring through her manned head what were her doctrines, In case disputes arose. He recognised the difficulty of summoning con vocation but he could met see, in consequence of that i mpossibility, why it was right to depnve the clergy of the means of setting forth the doctrine of their church, nor could be think that the church ought therefore to rest contented with a state of things which even the noble marquis himself had admitted was not satiaidetonc. It was admitted that the judicial committee of the privy I council mght lave to decide on matters affecting the doctrine of the ehdrch of England, although some of the members of that council might happen to be members of other church. a. The noble marquis had • seemed a very high tone, and had gone solar as to say that the bill was unconstitutional, and that it was contrary to the constitution of the country. But, it ought to be recollected that both the prerogative and enpremacy of the crown were already bound by the deeisioes of the Courts of Appeal. And how wen these courts con stituted? They were the creatures of perUement. Tee judicial committee of privy canal was as much • c•eature of parliament as any other court. He did not see, therefore, that the supremacy of the crown was at all affected by the present measure. (Hear.) He did not sympathies with those men, who, if they found the church too much hampered in her connexion with the state, were ready and prepared on that account to separate themselves from her communion, although they held her fundamental doctrines. Yet, he believed that sash • feeling largely extended; and U this bill were rej• end on the second reading, and if a determination were thus evinced that no remedy would be applied, then he feared that their lordships would run the risk of separating from the communion of the church, so fettered by the state, a number of her ablest men. (Hear.) He belonged to no party in the church. He was glad that some doctrinal points had, as be thought wisely, been left undefined by oar &neaten, in order that tsisieten might net be excluded on the one side or the other ; but than the church should have the power, through her authorised representatives with the writings of the fathers of tits chu;ssk In their hands, of declaring that such was now and ever had been the doctrine or teaching of the establishment; or on the other hand, if it WON II question upon which many sincere men had differed, and on which the church allowed a lati tude, let it be so declared. (Hear.) It had been said that there was danger of the present bill multiplying dissensions is the church. Of this he was quite certain, that it would he • matter of satisfaction to the churchmen of Vila country if they knew that, upon any question raised, they would have en opportunity of having fur their guidance, as dutiful members and eons of the church, the authuritistioe declaration of their spiritual heads. It was for these reasons that be should not say "no " to the second reeding of the bill, though be did not wander it perfect in all its detail., After a few weeds of explanation from Lord Baovaware, nsper o f yesterday, scald not be obtala,," of parlisewent. *mitt it had been esinansicated t. • s': " " od e , heerspeper ? Sir G. GUT said be wen mot swam of tie app,,, i ,, e .,„ the report ia e Sunday pa;or;• he bred seen it in one ni to e , i(torsome. AM he wield my OR the eul•tet wu ti ts . ... :,Eriday . the retort lu,d been presented by law ilijeft. ~,a ; .: inan e, m • printed form, u w ee mu g vitk regrfet to , e , rts ~,,, pre saatad • te n was sot aware w h y i t had mot bees c m ,. u k g to e m• supposed. became • bent Dumb, had mot been printed. Within/Jimmie to the oumeniettice, of report to Qs araw•pare is question he equlel 0 1, sy ,m 4 c am goy et * M . report . had best teemed item tn., ... ', rl Althilrioid dm delay ht liming the rep eee „ „„ a_ Airs was owing to an aseileat in the rioting .if,, - ; bad prevented the impremion hoot blind i•rneeer l ,,j The i d em ii ammo, of copies would very snort ) 6, .., .• • ',y,liLur OATES BILL. 1,,4 liz L. in answer to Mr. Ncrop, ;‘ ,., . t lated that the second r ea di ng et this bill wou:d nut b ; , either it the present or the Monie s m ee k, '" ir u ECCLESIASTICAL COIIMISSIUN BI LL. ' erd J. MAAS/ILL, in answer to Mr. Holmdel!, . 4 14 that the committee on this bill would be Wino cm Priam. the 28th. • Mr. W. J. F ll Ol B , in jW an U sir Cj et T eo rn th N e of Aargbat. , was wawatigy his intaatew ea W.dneed a y to nine that the &dimmed debate oat the Education Bill should lfz're. eased, hot so perm:ears with the bill as long as the Louts would allow Lim teedo r. xviorioxs IN IRELAND. • Mr. P. SCROPE wished to ask the First Lind of th g .Treasury " whether he bad yet taken the opi a t e , 0 the law Olsen of the mown ea to the allege.' in s . -laity sad arimisal character, at common law, of sale elm:anon, or depopalatioa, as now 1,,g0y sanest es in Ireland ; and, it not, whether the government tetend *recommend to parliament say 11111111.nre for the a : p o ki ng each practices, which inflict the most feethidigfer. lags oa numbers of her Majesty's subjects, Lin eel* tr rprovoke the retaliatory perpetration of airrar,,-, hs bon. mambos said that accounts continued to ni t ., t hi s infantry daily of these dreadful enctions mill going on, H, wished ti ask whether the noble lord had nu n tion of Mr. Mackay, a banister of some eminen, i , pr the illegality and criminality of this system of nei..p,:at:onj Lord J. RUSSELL said he had rot : era-+.A the 11.•;:h.zi, in questing. No case had been laid before the given:m.o'. on which they could ask this opinion of the law alit, n of the crown an to whether these practices had as blend and cr. character ; and without such a ore, detailing al the circumstances, it was impossible to place the tea - er h the law officers. The hon. gentleman's: let queftion set o r so large a character, that he feared it would be dasoniol e to give a satisfactory answer. He conceived that ant o, ~o n which tended to improve the conciti.n of the peo;:te in Ireland would have the efftct of atilt as t' evictions; and into the details of such n.esi he of COWS* could not then enter. I: wit of regret that the bon. gentleman in placing the: • ,:, hi. question on the paper, should have ed led to it t• pression of an opinion that theft evictions " t.;:,, t v k• the retaliatory perpetration degrader, c e.r.) He very much regretted that th ere a...it! 1 been pu• upon thn notices of the lymee, in the gonna°, what appeared to bz an indirect jA•tlip;..•,., least pi Wien. of these retaliatory crimes (11 ,• ) Mr. P. SCROPE —I beg to disclaim that but, it the noble lord will give me the opoor prove the , act. DRAINAGE AND IMPROVEMENT 01' L.'. ADVANCES bILL The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUh.h. - this hill excited a good deal of inten.r, end e . r might lead to much discussion, he peopAtd tz ' morning siting on Thursday. An lion. Mesnen—ln the new hou.z ? "L gzh Tie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHENCr.It the rarer house. The day we subesq Friday. CUURCH RATES. Mr. TRELAWNY, in anNeir u• Mr Li he vtott.d not b.init on hie striti in on ti. twelve o'clock no the night fur widen it rood. MERCANTILE MARINE BILL . In answer to My SloppATT, Lord J. RUSSELL avid he wosli rut the 20th, when Its hoped to be ab:c t., He moved that t:• order which etond 1 should be discharged, end tat;iill6;;;L:r t Agreed to. _ THE FACTORIES BILL. Sir G GREY said the noble lora op,. u.. i L •i I •'.ll ners) had itliDta notice of an important CD', : .11. • • F ,, etories Bill, t Nur on the bringing u . , u !h. r• • r committee on the bill; if on the rep,rt, Le Lowe. • •. sloe in committee Nereid not *soapy any c n.i - and he sbnuld be willing to take it at a in:rit...4 Thursday. L drd J. MANNERS said he bad gir - r. r. ! . .7 to rot his amendment OD the bringing up of r t I proposed to bring it on then. Sir G. GREY said he should then prop'.. o •a; suit the convenience of the house, to take C‘r ,, •!••• the Futory Bill on Thursday at eh yen. n No order w.s made en the subject. REGISTERED ELRC i ORS IN THE 31.aTEOPnL: On the muticu of Sir D. LACY EVANd, ti rAtirtl ordered of the number of reairered eitcturs in ea... the metropolitan cities and borguglas, for c:ch of the two years. METROPOLITAN INTER:ULM — Ss BILL On the motion tut% the hcuse shou!sl gu low tonactitt( this Mr. LACY mov:d that it ehoull be te'err,.l to a committee, Lord D. STUART seconded the ammimerit. lie proved of the tit tale of the bill , tsp,:u.l.ly to th, storklrtt it thr.ugh a board, and v) the large st 4 patroniiie which would be tbrOwn into thip buds iertmeit. Sat G. GREY objected to the amendment, as be (Lulus. The house already pones/ea al, the i , requisite upon the subject; and, it they d hye at this moment, it was equivalent to throwing far aco:her ees•ion. Mr. C. LUSUINGTON supp3rtict the atnindat did ➢[r. B. OSBOELNB, who, neverthelese, appnoeed of the measure upon principle, but expected to have a much com pleter measure prepared by the select c mmi•cee S:r DE LAC! Eviie and Sir B. II tr ,otted the rrtuciple o! tell. amendment, because the bill destriTyed . government in the metropo:itan Vsiuiie . Mr. M ASTERMAN also supported toe amend-sees Mr T. DUNCOMBM, whom rising to cak :or *. time after his long illness, was wecomed v...k re] mation. brie de warn wed the anti name te. Mr. T. DRYRCOUET pronounctdt::e opini n me•rttpulis and of the metropolitan members as unanimous in disarpromil of the measure. Lord J. RUSSELL said that though he r the hon. member far Finsbury (Mr. Dun. meg his place—(hear, hear,)—he yet felt cainy.il, , l •o -r - . different conclusion from that of the hon. gt nt;L•tnec question was, whether it wee desirable any act •c tele . • in the present Feral:to to prevent &Mermen:. .. 1:10 crowded metro(' -lie. If it were desirable az: should not pass, thin he would say, send the -re s select committee. (Hear, hear.) It had be. u 'hat witnesses would there be examined, and viii or r .c.i:tst objection", and suggestions made u to the deisc.: , . would go to make up team, future filtlattie. 111, it. 6.sr Now, if such a room were taken the house would be ray fortunate if, towards the end of Isle they received a report from that commit:re. tllear, hear.. Indeed, the probability was, that they would replet the impossibility of causing to • decision at that m•racut. and prey to be allowed to sit next sts.io-i 'or the purpose of going through the details. (lieu.. h, ar.) As rigor ....I the details, be (Lord J. Russell) was not then g ',nit into defence of them. because he had heard no reason given to sho • that that house was not as competent to consider the bill as a select committee would be. (liver) if it were thought that all the clauses were not nece,osty to curry out the provisions of the measure, let thole that should be deemed unnecessary be removed ; and if it should be th.oght that any of them required a Iteration, he would be met: happy to concur in all proper alterations. t Hear , 1: ha been said that his right bon. friend (Sir G. (hey) had wit drawn several provisions of the bill, and introducitothae in their stead ; but it was hard, because his right hon. friend received deputations in reference to the measure, that he should then be censured for not complying with the wL.h of those who called fora select committee. (11-xr. hear.) Mr. Alderman SIDNEY preferred th.t alt. rr.rive to passing the bill with its present adoption of the obketionable centralising system. Sir R. PHEL should object to the question being relented to a select committee, for the very reasons uric a by the h.gt. gentleman who had just sat down. (Hear, hear.) !lc thought it right that a question of such importance and in• voicing so many interests, should be discuand. not in a select committee, but in a commit:co of the while hew. (Hear, hear.) He (Sir R. Peel) had every relyiet I-r the corporation of London, indeed, no me'mb' rot that roue en tertaiut d a higher respect for them; but there erre ....ants of local management in metropolitan affairs, such. for tn stanoe, all the removal of Smithtield-ntarket —(laughter) — on which it might be permitted individuals to ar rive at different views. (Hear, hear.) Thee•Vt ration of London, no doubt, were well quidned to judge of affairs of local management ; but that woe nor...son why ork, rs shculd not venture to express a tlid.rent etnion. (Hear, hear ) The question was, whether they shell ! to sato a committee of the whole house, or refer the bill to • Ardent committee. and he was of opinion if they tuto-rted the latter course mad referred the measure to • 'elect committee. it would be an extraordinary case of extra-mural iuteroleilt indeed. (Laughter.) Hr. HUME said that bad be read the clauses .4 the bill he would never have consented to its see and readina, the principle having been discussed. t Hear, hear.) He wisi one of those who advocated the neccesoy of a Whitmire' Interments year/ ago, indeed he believed the first motion ever submitted on the question emanated trots him. (Ilean , hear.) He thought the powers entrusted to the booed were too unlimited, such as providing sepulture t.r 51,tkItt ticreens yearly, appointing otticitting clergy to tho cementites, to gather with regulating and controlling the tees to be poi. (Hear, hear.) He thought the parishes should vaind these meters, and in the event of their not delimit to " tie. factortly, then the Board of Health could et, p in and este• deo their tuncticns. He was of opinion that the noble lord should allow the matter to be referred to a elect committee- He objected on the ground that witnessee would have to be examined, by which delay would be caused. But witermes were not wanted, as common same would deft le the matter. (Hear, hoar) If such things were permitted, the neat step le. Bgard all Stmltd LOS Saki would be We outzul of all to 1 .e 6 , T ad .e 00 bl be . I r . b. 1' .wt 'd . el .e C Te be t 6 f c :01 1 it e el . 1 .11 I is fri 0 bt C. Ti • • g g If tt 1• to at tk ci tt 1 • : • C: • X b • it It • II 0 6 1 1 1 1 1 1 • • 1