The Express. — London, England, 1850-06-18 00:00:00

- •We glif nee el some at .: 4 A sa ble lad, that, howver Tea*" he had bee , iodated teew.";tr;:"4"thie house mighi be, !fillet t lettalsot M, ..fko ' e hrsithre, wou ld moonily include • •',,„i A GOP ID which justice and ma. ' • - • 3 -- : .• ,.lime ) He hardly . espected that the d seta i,iht ha:wetted to newsperos r•- "•—• -.° the clears, would hare toadie -09 . Alglalltall open these de ' ".,,;• 19 it. it the noble lord referred . , r e of this wintry, and of the • • tint that great prieciples, hapeiness, and glory P. Sr. t•dhill their ones t e most am r""' ' l * •ed parti-ular tedividuals. Oe sae is' 6 " .. ' c y,, j l,,eJ, • paltry claim was seeds, owe= h' • • to have agitated the • ;w eber. ouitht rot • f , e sod to tbe other. but that claim, - "f volved ta , a• • e— ..„4.0,1 t e e 'ran; and, accordingly, • t" .; t l a y 9 ,(01/11111rd in it one of these sr ' hies they veld emsark their tortures N o w, the noble lord bad alluded • .` % ;" 11 4 la kes erect pains t 3 damage er snort:sate Mr. Pacific % Tee eharat t;t• ricitioe had nothing to io with the ear g,rq snow would remember the Maw Agi...-tedZthe unlawful prApeables • Ale W,.lten (the Marquis of law • . r iot ea the meant occasion into the , keo. hut It errhinly wa• asserted of him • ,hivo,er was reps to many ebergee— y. winds). and others of that elem. ,f se. intes resat the leas •:: Chat h a m se ll Campbell—from haielas• be might be • gushier gad hew wild or an eattei-t. Ood roe CbafgM we•• true—it "Reef entered I , e see ia question to say they would , s own- into his character before they in otter, respect. And so with re whs./vs he thirstier might be, be it he p sewed • rightful claim. A -.tacit at Attica. however, knew him, c.isadered Pacifico to be the sub .. ;; ejost pees cution, hut he said A it.,wohed at the awiduity with ,;.; h.'s got or , against him to r lie should have bees burned." that it es his in mind of a bad r c , meon for besring in Westminster •. elfin! to the soassel foe the de t 31Wited remark ;—•• When you beaus, the cave is very bed, but of r a•torney." (Boar. hear, sad a ::. 1 rd said to the preseat ease—" it :se salard loss, hut then ho was • .. Fad character. This was net the .*0 ; cr, Tether, were the claims to r.we the sea who preferred then keel bad in character ? Now, ars•tanta which eistin_aished this Saha 7 ... 1: win—n 't the amount of the claim it 011 AI it was enforced—but, it ti.ae which ha t been allowed to ,n w,s inforriel. Some portion of It had as tie let, 1836. (Hear.) The noble we: IS; a in the case of Mr. Fitlay, for he he • very reap , stable man ; and be r I).st 1 Ted him to be entitled to T - neh Internment admitted that -• Erbt in lus daisy and indeed the a -luau oasis-ion. Mr. Finlay had f and he expect‘d sore • r trir.ant of the purchase ; a,d • .V 99 hard of MOM in ties ClOnify in a., d more for their lead than they bad 11.ar. heer," end laughter.) In S:^• many moo bed possessed them , suhurte, fur which, when it was r J 1., 'XII Of rublie purpose!, they -resent thy had given for it? In sit •!ois- by tiring the parties the amount • ft tie tetitl flies, hear.) The h - d heart with s iec• are of pride tie hart of Mr. Fishy, that he rii that he would obtain - Eat what would the aobla lord :• as be now was, that under the , •r,m-t.i &threw - on had never been !I- r, bete.) Wnen intuit had bees ,r. • Lee M -jesty, and a simple apology • ap Isy was for • long time re. r‘: the ;others. When WWI 0010pell . .:he Greek toveroment never answered .•e Thee refused to answer, or to give t.iB-at.) With regard to the the r.lb:e lord said that her Majesty's :el his outrageous claim. and that they ..; r u;'sly . required the L Oresk govern whit would their lordships say woes f Lich:lower.) told them that from • (eft tf this transaction P t r adopted than as • c:sira were aacpted for dietuesion how .r Nil amount he claimed ? The "vs *impel's. to reduce it, but erovirnsent was—that it ren-t : . the first letter oa the subject, . the English ambassador, said : • shall &rpm to be jua and ...794 lit them to the Greek Sinister fs ha• ta.en rare to make the &mewl for ra.s that will not present tie Greek go- t% • .! .1 L... .s.. . . • says is that letter that the . • : •• just atd nasocable," acd then that he • -or* the eels " "seen' terms." LANSDOWNE eked whether any Ira. • : who bend both sides of the genii ,n, could , the British rnerantent, by this letter, coati-ad • • ...olda prosecution of an Inquiry after a 4. oso c d • c t:.at was just, fair, end reasonable? lie found - sgain in the course of the corospoodenee that the • on sped ty lar.Wyse 1166 that there should be satin. . made by the state nf what was " fair and reason. He w not trouble their lordships by refire:eel many passages when this exprenion was used hut .!5 h of Minh Lord Palnientoo gave Mr. Wy.t . .rv, WS,' him tint with reined to Per•fico's . r •he Fortnum government " it should be town. :oe am.unt if Le had not lost his document,. he ••r a. a the measure of his loss " So that, if P•cifi_o . •t show PAS to the extent of a stilling, he was to • .on then ash ling. Whatever the d.cumente r, he was entitled to demand, and that was ill . .e ioenneaent had claimed for his. Tee noble • . Pae:hco was a man not to be trusted, and, in • • .••• 1...0 referred toe dishonest traneaction alleged at L'elros a great many years age, but . • test Pacifico had been twice appinted son ; • . ue.e Rovenmen ; and he (:t • noble is.,. • • • • respect for the Portuguese eovernmeet •.: -.tan were guilty of forgery mother dig -- • • o . select h im for consul. (II sr, hear.) • 1 1' .tt d that these were claims which we , . : • aed al: she complained of wssthat they '• • • •••tnly enforced, and that they had been • e. r being previously given to the other -• w,s the inteati to of the British government ne te>in. He ttd however 'hewn that in all the r.r.l eaires to which he had refined, no • err road been given to ether powers; end he .• • ..r. toe disinter. the coeditioe, or is the rola • Ice gland, at compared with the other powers e • • ea cb geon.d lead to the recognition of the •..t ectreas slt other powers might proceed ow . • . t e.r owe gone of tee injustice done to requite • • be done to their subjects, that England a cao where her >ubjects were concerned, after .•• • ; • era. 1111t..1. end delay, treat those states which • ts . - - • t't Justin with a degree of indulges., which •• > •• -••• to them by to other power under similar • • ... - Lear, heerj—end which should induce the t Ti- -so that the government was not justified in • •.f rte ...e t • the measures they had adopted of n o• it ceraaros thie country, a. fare. they wan ••••• ••• , conceded. (Hear ' hear.) r: lel eomp: aine d o f t h e l arge naval lur es that • ••... • ). M 611.461111 these demacds; and he ad t" • ..* teen wen reason , which the goverment L ' . f • •-• •ct I.r na;.loyinr that foree nevertheless t. - •• • • • 1 1 .% being employed had 116/IK/AKI MOM •••• 11. to more 1111111161110111pOWC111 just • •••.. 11 • '.•.u , '.•.u , the employment o a smaller lose* e• • •••• ;-- doe. d• But the temptation ke '• • ••r r " , .6* *OAS was great, net la Menem ' " • • oSitet in view, but la reference .• Altimi of the Greek government; `` •c '"' -* ' :tee st were compelled to yield, it would • tr a* she should he so compelled by Sir ~ • •'• • '. 7 .....ferker, than to a frigate or smaller .•41 bad said that the course which had • • • •Iftturbed the amicable relatioaspreviosaly .• • c ;matey and Russia • and, la ho should • " 1 *". expression of the noble lord's to load •; ; •• t• • ..on is the public mind of Me true state e( t 11 say that, with the respect he enter " if4NrlfiliSlit, the unfenced desire by • ; eat %et tele country sho u ld continue to ••.; VI , eta on a geed undentandleg end us raise 's' 66. amity with that great power, sad "0" ."..g the ri.ft•rfneeee opinion which had ;wins r' • ••• • Vent—aid thf•st, npicion—(hear, how)—he must " y that it,. &satisfaction with which L " ff yarded cur proceedings n this case .• •" 1 the */11;" or friendly relations that had hen .a. ' "I ll.ar, bear.) So far from it, he distinctly ••„,..; t• • : ,, nrary was the feet. Meer, hear ) He • ti• t on 116/.) important subjects in which both I ' l ' • e mri.on interest, the amity and friendly '0 •••• ..si ai 1 Greet Britain had never been greater %;.!•t. th .n at th e present moment. (11w, 1 "' web re•peet to some of the more important that 1.6 W agitated the world and affected the ante -1.• thee. was the utmost unity of opinion, of set .4 lotion between Hogan aod this country; ed tile two enuntries was as perfect as it had ;.; ars, p.riod of oar history. The most Intimate, If , • • 1 wisdentir.l communicationa had heed all •ne on between those great waren with retard SO ;'4*.tht alhir. of the north of Berope And now, parti .. ; et chi. the goveroraeat of this country " le, of toe sureeetione of Russia in regard to questionv, kitten' r •eiprueating that Genii *.* t. It ing 61. our &dein, following our sogge•tions, erg other power. to follow and adopt them. (Hear, ' • .eresore he was justified in sepias that there had .••• eruption of the good understancing and amicable between it.t two countries.. do ter with regard to THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 18, 1860. Ramis ; and sow as to ear relations with Fusee. Aid here be must do the noble lord the jetties to say, that he had said nothing that could la the least degree Wider that aloud from passing away which had for • mount, gad few a moment truly. sad purely from an accident's! 'traumatise', have overshadoolna the rebates' between Um two comittiou. When Ma offer was made by Frustrate mediate Ii the Ore. k 4109.1‘311. It we. aceeprad la the comrades that It was fairly aid frackly tendered, for the purpose of Waterlog Julia Ise as is the didereate with the Greek gesernagat, without ear haeigg moans to fares U. ores weal to Onus es that andisstanding, bat atter ausereee delays it was found that so rush followed, it was likely to fellow, his media tion. tinder these eiressetuese M. de Lhar was autho rised by his gouramat to aegettate with the British go rarawasat • ociaveutioa, the seatiluies of which was • atallieleat proof of the slareerhy aid the spirit Is whisk the miter was undertakes by the British gusestseut.aad friths's. desire to arrive at a eatiafactery eandement. It was nest aarartanatei se be cousidend it, that that coareados had sot reached Atheists before the merges of the ieieda there bad arrived at that prattles whisk lathiest M. Ores to withdraw biateelf shortage from kis diameter of media. tor, and until Mr. Wyse atter waiting foe a esagidegabls period I. the hops that that gust the expeetatiou of shish was kaki oat to kiss by M. One, sanely, that he should have soughing else to propose, hut whisk he serer did psalmist., should mem, and Mr. Wyss found himself en.- polled is following est his taraneetioas t• muse that state sot of hostility. bet al pressure against the Cheek gum miest which he had eranasteed bat suspended. H. said he felted it seaman to resause, far Whisg could be more ghee to those who had read the papers, huts that the sadierusadiag set MI? of Alberts, but the undemanding betwee• de Lauri, Lead Payment's, sad Ostend Labia*, was, that if the differences batsmen 11. Oros aad Mr. Wyse Await tun upon anything of principle, reprisals should re. emagassos. And tha aoble lord had usquesioaable asi des(*) ea this subject. he 111. de lams wrote letters to the Pruett Mahal, of Fusin Affairs, uteri than ono, is one of which, whit& IN ten Weld la his . hand, it was diStinely stated that the understanding on whin the negotiatioes pretended was, that if there should be any difference of prised* between M. Gras and Mr. Wyse, reprisals should FINIORMOSCII. If any difference should wise on the question of amount, then said M. de Limy* it should be referred back to the governments, sad reprisals 'Weld sot be reneged, bat if the difference should be upon principles, reprisals should enormity follow. Mr. Wyse, in the vindication womb be thospht it necessary to give of hie ours conduct, and which also would be found in the papers es the table, stated tk at he had no cognisance that any convention would be likely to he °melodist in London. Nor was it likely that he could have bad say such knowledge, sad though the French minister, Owned Latino, had thought it neeessary to r ad a letter in tM Assembly which had occasion d some dissatisfaction, that mistake himself now admitted that Mr. Wyse could have had no knowledge of soy *itch convention, and fully acquit ted him in the matter. But the noble lord had raid, why not when the invention was coneluded in London, at once have adopted it, instead and ie spite of any treaty concluded by Mr. Wyse at Athens. H. (Lord Laziedowne) had no anion in styles that it would have been most desirable if that could have been done, but there was this difficulty. The contention which had been *greed to at Athens hsd ben already pertly executed. and besides, it contained • particular clause with respect to certain new claim., which were not reUrred to in the treaty of London. And if that treaty without explanation or condition, or c .m munication between the poetise had been altogether abro gated, there would have been an admission in that abrogis ties of the expediency cr justice of conceding most unfounded claims, Witch under no circumstances would it have been possible for this country to have admitted; but it was the desire of both aides to come back to the terms of the Convention of Liedon, so far as they could be made the basis of &settlement with the Greek government. It was out of these e rcumstanees that the difference which had riven rise to the communications which had taken place dunng the last few weeks arose, and which bad not yet been brought to • perfect conclusion, but which be bad the satis faction ef stating was so nearly brought to a satisfactory con clusion that many days, perhaps many hours would net elapse before such a c onclusion "scald be come to—(bear, hear)--and the good understanding and confidence between this country ant France, whatever ratty might be in power, be perfectly restored. Whatever might be the cha racter of the French government, there was no character it weld mistime in which it would not be the interest of this gummy to msiastain the most tete•My telstious with it. (Lead cheers) He knew of nothing—he foresaw whhieg— nes hoped even there was nothing in the discussion of that evening, that could tend in the le .st to interpose an obstacle te the restoration and perfect resumption of those relations of amity between the two countries which was so essential to the peace and happiness of the while world. (Chore) He trusted that the delay which hid Wien piece in the final settlement of the question between Greece and this country had not been iejurions to the best interests of the former. He could mute the colds lord that the statements of the extent of the pressure which had been placed upon Greek esmineree had been more exaggerated than Puitieo's claims, and he would take the opportunity before resat down of adding, that far from there being any intention to press hardly on the Greek people and the Greek government, it was for the express purpose of avoidieg such pressure that, ooestrery to the ususl custom pursued en such cam, and pur sued in the instances to which he had alluded, of employ log force at ones, • warming was Os, a to the Greek gevern meet before any hostile proceedings were edopted. Aed trough an embargo was in the sad laid upon Greek em mere', it was unlined to the enforcing of the indemnity de mended, and was to stop the moment that indemnity was obtained. He believed that no serious injury had resulted to Greek commerce from that embargo, and up to the last moment, the most pc rf, et bunion. existed between Admiral Parker and the Greek people and government, and between our force and the persons engaged in commerce in these seas, and bet for the proceedings taken In the Greek chamber, there would have been a more speedy settlement of the questions at issue. He ceasidered this was one of those essea in which the government of this country had been fully juetilled in haring re ; course to those proceedings (unfortunately midi .g in the employment of force) by which they had attempted to obtain I justice for the wrongs of their subjects; and in his I conscience he believed, that not one of those wrones, disputed in amount as they were, but undisputed is principle, would have been r. &mei, if the government had not sent out Admiral Pereer and Ills fleet to enforce such redress. (Cheers.) Under these circum stances, he appealed to the noels lord and their lordsbip. whether they would adopt a resolution which be spin said was an ienoeation of the law of pinkies. I: that resolution were adopted in the terms proposed, it would go far to limit the commerce and the industry of this country in future times, and in so ter as • resolution in the House of Lords, U111•CCOLON01114 and unsupported by that of any other assembly in Great Britain, could clangs the law, it would restrain the power, and cripple the TlVOL•feti and the energies of the people, and of individuals residing for the purposes of commerce, and for toe interests el this country in foreign states, and fetter the future energies of the British government in affording protection to its subjects. He emildently called upon their lordships to reject the re*, lotion. (Cheers.) The Earl of ABERDEEN said nobody could believe that the settlement of toes. Greek claims was the whole aim and object of the proceeding. Unfor tunately their lordships, who knew • lade more of the reckless mode in which the foreign affsin of Ole country were at this moment conducted, nad but little difficulty in discovering the motives ; and they saw in this nighty demonstration nothing more than the exorcise of certain feelings of hostility and the unnecersary display of overwhelming forge. But even they might have expected that other eamegoeness might have ensued from these ope rations, for when a hostile demonstration of this kind was made many people in Athens and out of it also must have looked forward to the total destruction of the Greek government. lie well recollected, when he had to deal with these claim., le had been over and over again assured by the party which was celled the English party in Greece, that such a demon stration would inevitably overthrow he ministry and pos sibly the present form of government altogether. Therefore Wen war reason for apprehension, if even a state of things was any source of apprehension to them. They might gather from the papers before them the animus and the spirit in which these proceedings had originated; and he observed amongst them one illustration, which Wowed so plainly the feeling which existed on the part of the government, and which was also so characteristic of that double dealing wields he was sorry to see prevailing so largely in the policy mil conduct of that government io regard to its foreign nicks', that he would refer to it. Lest strums, their lordship would remember, there was • revolt ii the blend of Cepha lonia, in the Pane of which it appeued that Sir H. Ward, in a speech addressed to the senate, stated that the Greek government had been stirring up disturbances in that Wend. On the 9th of October Sir H. Ward made the speech in which be said the Greek government were privy to the troubles in Cephalonia. No time was lost in protesting and remonstra.ing against that accusation, and in the November following Sir IL Ward expressed in the public papers his great regret that hie speech should have been so nateuneer stood, for that he the kind. 1 Rail GREY—Hier, hear. ; The Earl of ABERDEBN—The noble lord cheered that ' denial, sad he wae glad it was so; hut what did the Hem ' eery of State say on the 'object ? M. De Mays, is giving an account of what occurred at an interview he had with Lord Palmerston, stated that that noble lord said that the Ene.iih 1 government had other complaints against tee Hellenic go vernment • . for example, that, in spited contrary assurances, it was cer tain that that government had been privy to the ' disturbances which had broken out in the lonian Islands. Now, which of the two functionaries spoke the truth be (Lord Aberdeen) knew not ; but this he knew, that the difference between them on a matter of this kind was not creditable to the character of this country. (Opposition enters.) His noble friend had so fully entered into all the details, one after the other, which had been put forward by the minister, had so completely exposed the doubtful cha racter of same, and the exaggerated nature of others, that it was not neeeseary for him hi occupy their time by tolloeing him. But he must offer one or two observations is regard to some of them. First, with regard ses what the noble marquis had said that the claim of Mr. Finlay arcs. Fie,ioo/1 to the Greek constitution and while an arbitrary government existed. When he (Lard Aberdeen) was Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Mr. Finlay preferred his @kiwi to him ; but then what he demanded was the (rod offices of the government. No doubt Mr. Finlay had • just and tquiteole claim for compensation, and consequently • claim for the interposition of the good offices 'of the government, but he reprisals s pinet the Greek government, and he bad a ny ground for dein, so. (agar, hear.) TM Greek government never denied Met he had an equi table Maim to compensation, and the only caution wee as to the samensa. Many others wife la the SIM SUSllliiol—Mf. HUI, the American isheiftery, ;:esesemd eN half the seine laid for which Mr. Fishy shifted. H. was satisfied with the oiler made to him end was settled with, but Mr. Finlay esatimted to nese hie shiny sad up to the Ism that claim was never refused er dialed, the only &Sault, Wog the mount to whisth he was entitled. The question bed, it sp -1~4 been referred to arbitration, though the feet h - ad . so bean ft vasaleate d to the toum, end . t►Nr terdship, wen left to believe that the deka was repudiated altogether, that it was a cam of denial of Jostler, sad that up to the time when Mr. Wye, made his demand, It had SIMI, been admitted ►y the finch 8o is the ems of Mr. Paelleo. Its (Lord ) did not deny that he kid a lust dais for cos he the Woes he had sustained, bet hie ease was d N hem Mr. Fin lay's. Me had no right to op* to his asset to interfere situ he had endeavoured to - mrtes hie skim by the oral• nary mum of kw. This ha took to he wiqmestionably the tree prissiple is such mitten. This was a ease In *bleb seetain donnas had been made, which net having bees cos gikai wall trop teale had emanitneed. Now, what was the Melee Imprimis t It was a state of war ; it was de facto war. (Rear, hear.) In ad( rto justify the issuing of re oriole for uaseti►fled claims, every mesas must haws been exhausted to obtain judos by the wadi. easy tribunals of the kentay and by due atone of law. Sven it all their proceedings WOMB as dear and curtain as away of them were doubtful, still he (Lord Aber dean) said that the mode of procestfine was rash and larjnatillable. The noble marquis had dwelt mesh, had taken some time in atomise that all powers had a right to redress their iderke without the cosiest of ether stake, and ea that question were to pap for themeelvee. No doubt that under °slivery air conntances we should not ask the cossent of Russia or Franco before we redressed our injuries sad teased npriials, or even before s declaration of war. But Gramm was in s different sildattonUrsie;;l;di'rene• end Bangs from other emus tries, for the three powers had Greeted that state, and had guaranteed her territory as well as her independeuce, and therefore a blow struck at her by one of those powers might straw at her very existenem es well as her independenee. Suppose that we had a quarrel with Belgium (no doubt an improbable contingency, but considering the ingenuity of the government in creating quarrels not beyond the bounds of passibility—(hear, beer)—her territory sad lode peadenee having been guaranteed by Are powers would we send a squadron late the Scheldt and bloekde Antwerp without ementermation with those other powers? Un doubtedly not. But yet you tried an experiment with Greece which you would not venture to try with a country situamd like B igium. It wu so extraordinary that this was not felt that he could harlv accouht for the feet that no sue& cow ntheication lad Nit sok te the other powers, it was et obvious that be could hardly believe it until he found that Id. Dimity* de Linty., in h s first letter, for when the news reached France it created so gnat a situation that Drouya de Lhuys was sent to England for explanation. and on the first dal of his arrival in London (the sth Feb ) wrote that letter in which he said " that he presented to Lord Palmerston • nosy accurate picture of the unfavourable impression which the news from Athens had made in France, on the President, on the council, on the diplomatic corps, on the whole of the Assembly, and on public *piano. He pointed out how painful it was to them that such sudden and violent resolutions should be taken without their knowledge against an allied nation; how very extraordinary were the means of execution ; and how strange and contredie tory the new position would be which thole event, would create in the East." Lord Palutro ston very much diminished the importance of what had passed, and replied "that the affair was so simple, and of such little come miens., that he had not thought it ones sary to spak on the swine to the French government." He (Lord Aberdeen) could hardly believe that, knowieg the relations existing between Freen and Russia and Ore-en that we had not taken the trouble to say what we were about to do; it was almost incredible that such was the case reprinted both those powers. Even supposing thee the claims in question existed strictly between Greece and Eng- laud (tor it was said that France and Russia had nothing to do with them)—even if this doctrine applied to these pecuniary chinos, still when the qaeetion referred to a matter of territory there could be no doubt of the propriety of • communication to Francs and Rosen, for the noble marquis admitted that they were treaties to guaranteeing the Greek territory, and when it became a question of separating that which the Greek go. TtrllliNlit called territory, we were bound by every motive of justice and propriety to communicate to our co-guarantees that orders bad been given to occupy the Pima.; and he (L rd Aberdare) could only say that it was owing to the for bearance of lie. Wyse, who thought that the note of the Greek minister exhibited more truth and justice than it was thought by the government here to have d.ne, that of his own mere motion operations were suspended. In the early part ot his statement the noble marquis asserted that the demand of the islands in question formed no part of the ace to Mr. Wyse, but he dil not admit that at that moment the islands were oceupied, and U the instructions given had been fu.filled, would have remained in our possession. (Hear, hear) The noble ma-quis, by the bye, had cot noticed that part of the speech of his noble friend (Lord Stanley) which had reference to those island., and he (Lord Aberdeen) considered that to be the main point in question—(bear, hear)—because that was one of the points on which we had abandoned the growl(' wo had asserted, and had ss tiled the matter with the other powers, after announcing our determination to occupy them. In the whole of this matter, that which had pained the feel ings of this country most was the part which our naval force had been obliged to play. (Cheers.) Not ou:y on this occasion in the Greek waters, but since its departure from England, that fleet had been employed in a manner little eondec.ve to the honour and credit of this cosintry. (Lou.' cheers.) First, when in the Tagus, it excited at Lisbon complaints and suspicions on the part of the government of Portugal, and .yen those who were opposed to the government loudly remonstrated. Again et Naples it wee employed to control, to threaten, sod to thwart the operations ot the king, and afterwards the Sicilian insurgents were abandoned, a%d then both parties were ft in the lurch. (Cbetn.) After that the fleet ap peared I i the lonian Islands. It arrived just after the sup pression of the ethernet', and therefore took no active port, but all that it did was to luraish Sir Henry Ward with im plement. for the punishment inflicted on the rebels who were taken. Though the measures taken by Sir Henry Ward were very senile he might have been justified in adopting them, and the mild government of • military conservative might have been advantageously succeeded by the stern severity of • whig eivilian—(hear, hear, and laughter)—hut it was odd that he should get the flog ship to supply him with naval cats to flog the rebels with. It might have been thought that the native msnufac.ure which served for mili tary uses would have sufficed, but Sir Henry Ward gin • supply from the admiral's ship of implements wherewith to introeuee • new and barbarous punishment into those islands. This was all that it was found that was done by the fleet in the [mien Islends. Then come the last and meet brilliant affair in the Greek waters which had excited every where sympathy for the weaker power and regret that such an overwhelming force should have been used. They were told, however, that the fleet had done wonders in the Dardanelles, had brought the Emperor of Russia to his senses, end bed done wonders in favour of the Polish 'chigoes. The fleet entered the Dardanelles in Octo ber, and on the sth of November the Emperor, without the interference of any other power, acquiesced in our construc tion of the treaty under which we claimed to interfere, and the government apologised to the Emperor for having entered the Dardanelles, disavowed their admiral, and said they woald not do so again. (Hear, hear.) Nay more, they said the fleet had been driven thiteer by stress of wea ther. (Hear, hear.) The noble marquis did not deny the tact. If he did he should produce the paper in which it was avowed that the fleet was driven into the Dardanelles by stress of weather. (Loud cheers.) Was not this • decep- tion, was it not saying the " thing that was not ?" (" Hear, hear," cheers, and laughter.) As he had said before, they bad apologised to the Emperor,and promised not to do soany more. He had little to say nn the letter part of the subject on which his noble friend had addressed the house. He did not know in whet state the negotiation with Prance was at that moment, but it was astonisbing to him that there should have been • negotiation going on for three weeks on such a auhject. It appeared to him that the prepesition of the French government wee a simple one end ought to have been acoepted at once, butt ey bed gone on haggling like their own IL Pacifico, when it might all have been settled in one hour. They should have said, if while we agreed to • convention in London, another was agreed on at Athens, let that stand ; but if a compulsory settlement of the question ter* place at Athens, let the London woven non stand. Tree utmost good faith was exhibited by the French government to this country, and indeed the instruc tions given by Gamed Labia* to M. Gros were models in their way. He tells Lim to be urgent as far as was decent, but beyond a certain point not to go. Id. Oros acted on then instructions, and fulfilled them in the spirit of his government, and H. Dreuyn de Lhuys, who seemed almost to have acted as our French agent, had conducted himself in a manner that ought to have Wien satisfactory to this country (as we understood, but in this part of his speech the noble lord was very indistinctly bend). It was not to be supposed that he did not feel strongly the engagemeat into which ha had entered. The misunderstanding nese thus—When France offered her mediation it was impossible fee this country to refuse it. When, however, it was eseepted, it was clearly in the mind of the Secretary of State that we were to employ IL. Grin to execute oar demand. In diplomatic language it was said that we were to Kasen such satisfaction as justice required by French intervention rather than by forme . bat what was really meant was that she was to be our &bend °facer, to levy our debt, &Di to do oar bidding. That, how ever, was not the understanding of France in the matter, for she supposed that she was to do something like what had been done in tho mediation between this country end Naples on the sulphur question, and in the dispute between herself' and Mixioo. lie (Lord Aberdeen) thought the noble marquis had used very strong terms in stating that our eels none with Russia were as firm as ever. Perhaps the free dom of friendship had been used is writing the dispatch which had been referred to, but it was evident that it Wei dictated with a hieing not of the most friendly charaoter, and though it was to be hoped it would pan away, still it undoubtedly would not leave us where it found us, for although the two countries might get over the soreans which the affair would leave behind, yet all this did not take place without more or lees injure to the pre vious good understanding which existed. looping to our relations with the whole of Europe, he could not we cause to be well ratefied with them. We became used to anything in a abort time, and what first might cause alarm, in a little time would become almost natural to us. Yet our relations with the Knit powers of Europe were not In • natural state, and would not continue long without a change. It was impossible to look without uneasiness to France and Russia. If their lordships reg a rded the manner in which the noble lord had pressed every part of the subject upon their con sideration, he doubted whether say man In that house or out of It eoald lay his hand au his bout sad soy that every word of It was not jest sad true. (Hear, hear.) Lord CARDIGAN was deeply impressed with a ems of the hare ito which this 'ossify was exposed by the stated its WOW relations. Hs bad the greatest respect for the *minimised tales% of the noble feed at the head of the fortems dopertmast ; bet, hellos isolated idge ha whish the Sentry was pissed by the policy of that depart ment, Ito would sire his hearty support to the motion before the hors. - I;idlitAltD defended the sAMsst of the remotest sad of the agile load eh the head el the fonipa defame's% sad eseepleised that the gaieties bases the hare had lowa Ve=projadeed end atimpreseated. IZAUbIONT said that his latestioa wee sten to apply his ohierearleas to the epoch of s the i a= lord who had hen& forward the mottos. The noble leers &striae west to this 'stoat, that wMattese there wan • wrong dose to a British sabjest is a matey, he taut algae rely es the tribunals which ed red the law of the sesstr. The noble lord was obliged, however, acluto sledge, (a eontradietioa to the principle be had l aid dews that la sore insteasee, as la the ate of as obsolete rantuels, there sight be en exception. It alight be the sable lord was eszioue to oottatereat the bed senile of his resolstlos by the doetriaes ke professed; but if he want the length of saylag that se interferes's should take plan WI appeal Ind been seed. to the Who rish of the &natty sad hod Med, that was precisely the ears is thf teatime's before the hoses. It we rid that England, before interfering, was hound to have oessalted the other two powers which oembined with me to establish that kiegdom. He denied that proposition entirely. The indeptedesee of Greece once established, she was in the sense pcsition as any other independent country, and mat set le bier own quarrels with other tanneries without the interference of third parties. Citcumetanees sight arise rendering it desirable to consult with ether powers; and in the case of Greece it might have been wise polity for as to de so. But h. kwl_yet to learn that those powers hid not been consulted. They knew of the existence at these claims, and of their liability to be enforced : the time had gone by when Coletti timid defer these Maims as long se he liked, having a power over the noble earl (Aberdeen) which he meld not shake off (Hear, hear.) The Earl of ABERDEEN—CoIetti was not a minister while I was in aim. (.. Hear, hear," and laughter.) L'rd BEAUMONT refined to the circumstance of the noble earl showing to his a despatch of Culetti with merit% to thee* deism, and asking if he *bought fora ought to be employed. The Earl of ABERDEEN admitted that it was s mistake as to Colettl not being minister while he was in office, but Mid that be left no claims on Green unsettled when he went eat of °film ; that of Mr. Finlay was only then com mencing, and there was no ease in which the employment of form was called for. t Hesr, hear.) Lord BEAUMONT said he would proceed to show that the tribunals of the country had been appealed to in these cues. In that of Mr. Finlay, the claim had been first pre ferred ander the very articles of the constitution ; the 17th article or the code required indemnity to be accorded for all property takim by the government. He had farther step mined to arbitration again in accordance with On law of the country; and it was only when toe Greek government refined to accede to a just arbitration that he had appealed to the interference of his own eonatry. As to M. Pacifico, of whose character he did not think much, end whore horta tory of losses was evidently much exaggerated, it could not be denied that be was entitled to reparation not only for too of his preppie', but for personal injury. He, again, tad first applied tothe Promireur ea Roe, who, having ascer tained the names of the offenders, refused to proceed against them. Pacifico waited six months in hope of the govern ment acting, and then wrote to Sir E. Lyons. L rd STANLEY—Sir Edmund Lyoi.s forwardedthe com plaint to the Greek minister within three weeks. (Hear.) Lord BEAUMON 1' said that confirmed his statemeat. Don Pacifico and Sir Edmond Lyons both continued to urge the Greek government to do justice for six months bef re the interfarecce of this country was invoked. (Hear, hear.) It was no answer on the part of the Greek government to say that he had little or no property; they ought fairly to nave investigated the lots. It was clear that In both these cases the law of the land had been appealed to in the lint instance. Though the noble lord (Stanley) might have been expected to treat these claims with ridicule, lie was not pre pared to hear him deal in the same way with the outrage committed on the boats of the Feature and the insult to Lieutenant Ideedenald. It was well known that it the slightest indulgence were grained to the authorities in a country like Greece, our officers would be subject to insult every day. lie regretted that more prompt reparation had not been demanded for the outrage on our officers, and that the etas had not been treated singly as one calling for the employment of force. (Hear, beer.) It was most im portant to eenblish a precedent in this ease, not only for toe sake of this country, but of others; the French officers them selves were most anxious that this should have le en done. Wean the case was peeved on the authority of the two offi cers, the authoritin ought at ion* to have made an apology; but in Greece they invariably preterred getting onto! a eulty by trick and ingenuity than by • straightforward course. Woes toe monarch denied thee:AMAMI= of the officers, that might to have been the gigue' for demanding reparation. Every eatific means bed been tried of cot ring the claims; nothing was left but force, and therefore it was or necessity employe el. After inetrections to that effect had been given, Mr. Wyse had dune all in his power to spare the retinue of the Cir -.lt government, and ti induce them to do something to admit the claims; Greece would thereby have been put in the position of an honest nation, which she did not now occupy. had this advice been acted on, the amount of the claims might afterwards have bean mule the subject of mutual agreement. Hence, the Debbi Ind opposite had not made out a smgle charge whist the government; he had failed to show that they had acted either unieetly or inconsiderately towards Greece. Nothing could be more unfortunate than that • misunderstanding should exist between two each nations, but a good understanding maid only be maintained by straightforward conduct on the part of the respective go vernments. He believed that there was no deceit on either side. lie believed that France, as represented by that die tieguished man, M. Dronyn de Lhuys, acted openly, and the conduct or Lord Palenereten was equally straightforward. Then, again, he believed it was understood teat Baron Gros would act in the same spirit; that he was not to dn. pule the claim, but to endeavour to reduce the amount demanded to a just amount. Wi h regard to the reference home, he believed that Lord Palmerston had clearly laid down the course to be pursued. The question therefore resolved into this, did Bolen Gros with draw or nit ? If be did, Mr. Wyse had no sitarist'''. Now it appeared to him, there was so doubt of Baron Gros's withdrawal. He used the term that" his mission was ended," and then the underateeMing wee that negotiations having ended bsetill'iee were to recommence. Therefore, he iOnfoi ,,ered Mr. Wyse was perectly justified. But it certainly had been a must unlacky circumstance that the convention agreed to in London did not arrive in Greece before Baron Gros withdrew. But as it did not, why was Lord Palmer ston to inflict en additional Mimi upon Green to puffy Francs? He could not understand why France should not say " mind, the matter is settled, and there is an ead of it." Me thought Lord Palmerston would have been justified in laying, " You may take which con vention you please." The matter was now settled, and it did not matter it nothing more was ever said about it. It was no uncommon thing for governments to demand repent- Soo for iojurii a done to their subjects. That bad often been done ; and this country was bound, in coasideration of her honour and dignity, to demand reparation whenever her sub jects were opprued be a foreign power. Not to act up to this doctrine was to sink England into a second rate power, if, fee deed, she would be recognised as a nation at all. launclustea the noble lord said this movement appeared to him to be ea on-English motion , it was a motion hostile to this country, and he trusted the benne would not pass it. Viscount CANNING admitted that the conduct of tbe Greek government had been evasive and equivocal, bat it did not tallow that because the Greek government bad due wrong the government of this country had dons right. He pointed out the strong objections to which the mode of deal ing with Mr. Fiulay's and M. Pacifico's cases was open in point of international law. He also drew attention to the cue of the lonian subjects plundered by robbers, and showed that then, too, tne law of nations had been violated by the manner in which the government had demanded redress. lie reminded the house that there were other countries is the word nearly as powerful and much less serueulous in the exercise of their power than our., and that these coun tries would probably make • disastrous use of the example which had thus been *et them. Lord EDDISBURY, like the preceding speakers, re viewed each of the claims at forward against the Gres k government, contending that in the aggregate at least the refusal of them justified measures of reprisal. In support of his view he quoted certain deepatchee of the Earl of Aberdeen addressed to the Encliah minister at Athos., as showing the language which the government of that dey held to the administration of King Otho. The Earl of iIARDWICKE felt satisfied thst Admiral Parker had net stated to the government that he had been compelled to enter the Derdenelles by stress of weather. Lord BROUGHAM, having listened very attentively to the discussion, thought he might take • very short-sighted view of the question, and say that it did not matter whether the British or the Greek governments were right or wrong. Regarded in that light, the British govern ment might be compared to a man who went into cue' eery for 1004. The government did worse, for it went into chan cery for claims which were worth nothing. He denied that the gevenneent had international law upon its aide ; and it was frightful, he said, to think to what an extent war might rage all over the world it such doctrines as he hail beard rashly put forth in the house that evening were to become established. He hoped their lordship, would do justice to themselves in the public opinion of Europe by shaking them selves free from the recent proceedings in Greece. He eon- Adeptly axpectad they would do so, and in saying this he bore testimony to the great ability and the peaceful senti ments of Lord Palmenton. Strangers were than orders 1 to withdraw, at the same moment the Marquise( LONDONDIIIIKT rose to address the house, and continued speaking though the gallery was not re-opened. The numbers on the division were: For the motion—Present Proxies Against it—Present Proxies IN ority The house adjourned at a quarter pest three o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, ADO 17. Tee 8 took the chair at four o'clock. TRH NATIONAL LAND COMPANY. Mr. P. O'CONNOR wished to know from the right hon. baronet (Sir G. Grey) whether. as the Court of Gunge' 11. nob had decided against the registration of the Land Com pony, the government were prepared to afford every facility for the pasting • measure in order to *noble the company to wind up their 'Was and to do Justin to the 70,000 penes. who had Oneonta efseir matey in it. Or G. GAST NM there was nothing to prevent the hon. gestlempa bees see* Mr leave to bring in a bill, but it would be impamdble Ott klea to state on the part of the go vernment that he would facilitate its parsing till he knew what Its provisigne wee'. (Hest, ►eer.) SEITHFIELD HARIRT. Mr. FITZROY wield to ea Lord John Russell whether. in WSW woos of the report of the ersamimbra " appointed to Rake inquiries relating to Szeitba:ld Morket," ke was prepared daring the provost eselos of pediment to propose any sworn ier rimming the market for the sale of Lim made from that locality. Lard J. RUSSELL replied that the government do entirely agree with the report of the ectsmotrioein es to the mitred of Smithfield Minket. (Oasan.) With repardlto the muss of doing so, be world state oa Friday what the government proposed to do. OATH OF ABJURATION (JEWS) BILL. In reply to Sir R. lemma, Lard J. RUSSELL said that Ite proposed to more the emand readies of the Jews Bill es the 4th of July. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. In reply to several questions, Lord J. RUSSELL embed that he proposed to go on with the missellansoss estimates ea Friday next ; on tha follow ing Monday he proposed to take either supply or the Slump Duties BM ; on Thursday sent, he proposed to more the third reading of the Metropolitan Interments B U; he bad already announced that it was his intention to make a statement with respect to the Court of Chaneery on the 24th instant, and he now proposed to maks that statement on the Stit of July. ADDRESSES TO THE CROWN. Lord I. RUSSELL said he hoped the house would allow him to call its attention to a sulgeet, which although he had given no notice of hie intention to do so, was worthy of the consideration of the house, sad if the house concurred with hiss In what he was about to state, he meant to pro pose en alteration in regard to the orders of the house on the subject. He alluded to addresses to the crown from that hour. The house was well aware that with regard to other modes of proceeding, the home had an opportunity of coca deans its previous decision, and that any of its resolutions which did not appear to 'gem with the lease of the majority subsequently moorland ought be r,vereed. But the ease was mainly di ff ered with regard to addresses tv the crown, because, when an addrese was moved and agreed to, It was ordered that certain members should present it to her Ma jesty, and the consequence was that the advisers of the crown must advise the crown to comply with the tacker, (or they should advise the crown twit; comply with the adrein, it would tend to a breach between the crown and the House of Commons, which it was &drat*, neept on very grave occasions. to avoid. (Hear, hear.) Of coarse the advisers of the crown had it In their power to advise the crown not to comply with the address of the HJuse of Commons; but that was a power which they were net likely to we. It seemed to him, therefore, to be advisable to place ad drones to the crown on the some footing with the address to the crown, in answer to the speech from the throne at the beginning of the se , sion, which was always referred to • *elect committee, who made • report on the following day , which report we e again taken into considera tion PO that the house had another opportunity of discussing and deciding on the address. He did not mean to give any notice at present on the subject, but merely that members should coccid, r the matter, and see if they could not come to a general agreement, for he did not wish to raise any can test on the question of nuking an alteration in the mien of the boom to the effect which ne hod stated. THE EXHIBITION OF ISM.—CU !TING DOWN OF TREES IN HYDE-PARR Mr. BATLLIE wished to know if .t was with the consent of the government that a number of fine trees in Hyde-park were now cutting down in Drier to clear the site for the erec tion of the building in which the eilszbition of ISM is to take place? Lord J. RUSSELL said that the assent of the crown had heen drained to the appropriation of a site in ilyde-park for the purpose of the Ratatbition of 1811, end chimaera he was not surpr;i ed that the workmen had commenced the foundation. But he understoad—for he was not present at th , meeting of the commissioners when the matter was dc eided—that none but trees of a small size need be taken down, and that it wonid not Os neconary to cut down the lugs trees. _ LORD LIEUTENANCY ABOLITION BILL The order of the day for the resumption of the adjourned debate on thi. question having been read, Mr. ANSTEY said that, although he approved of the principle of the abolition of the vain and idle pageantry called the vice-royalty of Ireland, he was not prepared t extend one inch further the principle of ceutraliration. He apprev.d of the five first clauses of the bill, but he would not support its further pr egress if the noble lord was determined to abide by the m ininery which it was the object of the concluding chines to substitute for the present system. This bill was celled the 't Lard-Lieutenancy Abolition B II," and if it stopped there he should say he would hose no ob jection to it. But the most imeortant pare of the bill was kept out of sight—be meant the spreointment of a fourth , secretary of state. (Hear, hear ) He objected to all that related to that appointment—(peas, hear)—and, conse quently, on that ground he was prepared to oppose the second reading of the bill. (Hear, hear.) Hs detailed at much length the grounds of his objections to this part of the bill, which he considred the really important part of it The executive goy, menet of Ireland ought to be strictly local, and it was because it was not So that the legislation of that country was all vicious. All the present evils had grown up under a system of centralisation, and yet it was now pro posed to make that system still more absolute. Ueless he received mos: satisfactory assurance teat the minister to be armed with the new powers would tic bound to reside in Leann I except when attending to his duties in parliament, he should oppose the further preen tie of the bill. Sir B. PEEL said—Sir, I consider that as this bill has been brought forward by her Majesty's government, and as the professed object of it is to promote the good fe.vernm.ht of Ireland, it is, on those accounts at least, entitl d to the most careful consideration of this house. I consider the mien question to be, will the arrangement propceed coneuce to the good and satisfactory government of Ireland ? I wish I could see with the same confidence that some gentlemen do the unequivocal advantages of this step. (Hear, bear.) Upon the whole, I am perfectly willing to consent that the experiment should be made; hut, in giving that consent, I am bound to say, that Ido it with more hesitation and mJo doubt as to the advantages that inset result from the measure than many gentlemen appear to entertain. (Hear, hear.) Of this I am confident, that if local authorities, without the authority of the Lord Lieute nant, are to assume the executive fuections of government, I eland will derive no advantage whatever from the mea sure. lem quite aware of the difficulties which men of high character and great acquirements have had in admi nistering the government of Ireland, but I think those difficulties are not so much on account either of their per social qualities or of the constitution of the office which they had held, as on account of the difficul les inherent in the state of society in Ireland, which difficulties will, I apprehend, continue to operate after this measure shall have passed. (Hear, hear.) At the same time, sir, I cannot but feel that there are some Difficulties inherent in the constitution. When there was • local government the relation of the chief secretary to the Lard-Lieutenant was a naturcl and conetitutional relation. The chief secretary was in immediate connexion with the Lord-Lieutenant; he acted in a subordinate capacity ; all that he did .li:tainted from the authority of the Lord-Lieutenant; and his relation to the Lord Lieutenant corresponded, in all material respects, wish the relation in which a minister here stands towares the crows. But when you abolished the local legislation, and transferred the chief I, ontary's parliamentary functions to this side of the water, you altered materially the relation in which that officer stood towards the Lord-Lieutenant. Yon made him a mi nister responsible for the conduct of Irish legislation; you made him a minister necessarily possessing great power, and called upon sometimes to exercise that power without communication with his chief, however desirous he might be of conferee]; confidentially with the Lord Lieutenant ; you placed him an • position in which it is very difficult for men with the best intentions to exercise their fui ctions without risk of occasional collision. I can speak from experieaoe with respect to the great difficulty which there was in main taining perfectly confidential relations on account of the peculiar position in which the Chief Secretary for Ireland stood towards the Lad Lieutenant. I cannot but feel that there is a tick that the removal of an authority like that of the Lord Lieutenant, acting independently, animated by a snare desire to promote the welfare of that county , free from all local prejudices and from all prnoual partialities—l cannot, I say, but feel that the removal of that authority may have an injurious effect. (Hear, hear.) When you gave to the chief secretary all the autho rity of a oddest minister, while you left the Lord-Lieu tenant without that authority, you encouraged the secretary to Weenie powers the exercise of which could not but make him still more iadependent of Lis cent. Now, both on account of the difficulty experienced in managing the relations of the two offices, and on amount of the great objection to which the conferring of the dignity of a cabinet minister on the subordinate was liable, I am inclined to listen favourably to the proposed alteration. I am bound also to admit teat the increased facilities of communication give hammed means of conducting the government of Ireland without the intervention of a Lord Lieutenant, and that probably no period better than the present could have been selected ler But the making of the experiment will be the securing t t h h e e n pu l r" :l:ll e t f a II making ktihnagttbtehnerwhimichentw.il(lnreecarou, h e e d i e r.) me to unity of system in the form of government which is to be substituted for the existing one ; and I do entertain the doubts which I expressed, not in the year 1846-4 think it must have been in 1844 that the debate referred to by the (Col. Duane] do still l till ' eT ar terta lla i g n i4 th il e apprehensions as to the result at least of the wm ho hu n isc . t h a h n t: a d ve g pt Sl aku l see a e la n i dpilnac.-184l member con stitution of • fourth Secretary of State for the purpose of ad ministering Irish affairs. Teat which will be so advents- I gene, SS to compensate for risks and inconveniences is, in my opinion, the establishment of unity of system and unity of legislation, so far as legislation can be rendered uniform with reference to England and Ireland, by appointing one man to administer the functions of Secretary of State for ' both countries. I see that by this bill power is given to ap point a fourth secretary. I trust that her Majesty's govern meet will well consider before that power is taken whether it is absolutely necessary to poness it; that they will well consider whether you are not forfeiting a great part of the advantages which you hope to gain by the extinction of this high office, if instead of having a Lord Lieutenant acting wader the Secretary of State, you have two officers of equal and coordinate authority, one administering the functions ' of Becretary of State foe Ireland, end the other acting for the other parts of the kingdom. Why yon are receding from the orinceples on which you acted in the year 1816. Yon then saw the advantage of consolidating the two offices of Chancellor of the Exchequer. Yon had found each practical i• con - vonieseein having an English chancellor of the exchequer and an Irish chancellor of the exchequer, that In the year 1816 yea determined to combine the financial arraagemente of the two anintries, to abolishlthe office of the Irish chaa oilier of the exc h equer, and to unit* his functions with those of the English one. Every araumsat which then applied to the administration of the Snanoes applies now with equal fovea to the admioistratioa of justice, and of the executive faneticess. (H•ar, hear.) If you an. to have two secretaries of state I earnestly entreat you to consider this arrangement—the putting of Wales and Scotland seder one of them, and England and Ireland satin the other. (Laughter.) Well, now, you laugh at Mat as an absurd arrangement, but there is no reason why, If yea laugh at that arrangement, you should not also laragla as ths propinal now made. (hear, hear.) What will ke the result ? Yon are to have a separate bar, you are to have separate judjese,yoe are to have a separate commander of the forces. Why, surely, the great advan would be to apply preeisely the same principles to regulate the ad ministration of justice and the exereisine of the prerogative of mercy in the two pasts of the United Kingdom? You might dud a better reason for separating Scotland from England, in this respect, because there is a difference between the criminal and civil jurisprudence of the two countries. The people of Wales, too, speak for the most part • different language from the Raglan and I would positively rather see Wake and Scotland under a different Secretary of State from England than Ireland, since it la Ireland especially that we wish to assimilate to this country, and in whose ease we wish to remove all appearance of dirilaction. I declare I would prefer having one Secretary of State to manage the affairs of Ragland and Wales to having the exclusive manantinaat of In land confided to one Secretory of State. (Hear, hear.) I think there would be at least as great a risk of stolid= nadir the pro posed arrangement as there is under the existing one. You have at present one person presiding over Irish affain, the Secretary of State not being responsible to the Lied Lieu tenant, but signifying to him the Queen's pleasure. But I perceive a greater chance of difference under the system pro posed. if the turas be tranquil—if there be no danger of popular commotion, it is quite clear that one Secretary of State can administer the functions of government so far an respects the maintenance of peace and the employment of the military in aid of the civil power. But suppos3 there should be serious troubles in Scotland, and in soma parts of England and Wales, as there have been at former periods, and suppose there should, at the same time, be trouble in Ireland, would it not be of the highest advantage to have one civil officer to communicate with the commander of the forcat, and to make the necessary arrange ments for the suppression of insurrection—(beer, hear)—to have one man to take • conaected view of a!l the exigencies of the occasion, and to order whet night be necessary in different parts of the empire ? Would not this be better than having two men, each revocable for the maintenance of the public peace within his own peculiar jurisdiction, each pressing the commander-in-chief to give him the aid of military power—each responsible for the ap pheation of that power, and, there's:ire, enter tain ug different views on a matter of such im mense- imp mune* as the maintenance of the public peace through applying the military in aid of the civil power? (Hear, hear.) It may be add that the Secre tary of State is no ov.rburdened with public business that her cannot provide for any addition. My experierce rather tends to show that the conflict of re-equal authority adds to the difficulty (Hear, hear.) If I can direct no reeiment to be sent to Wales without communication with my brother secretary, who is probably preside, for that same regiment to be sent to Ireland, all I can ley ia, that you can give me no relief in exsiciei..g my functions, because my orders may be counterected by the presence of another Well, now, with r. spect to legislation, we all know that it is of the utmost ad vantage that Irish legieletioa should, as far as powhle, be conformed in principle, and even in detail', to English. (Hear, hear.) I hue it is very easy to say the', but anus we come to the practical application of the principles there are difficulties to be encountered. (Hear, hear.) If there is to be no communication between the two sem-aerie.; if the one is to heeds.. for Ireland, at d the other is to leg:state for the other pats of the empire without any intimate con currence and communication, you wel very soon find rich material differences as will disturb harmony. I assume that there will be that communica len, and 1 say that however preseiog or great the pressure of business mtg'.t be, I would much ratherebe responsible for •he whole of the legisletion than have to settle the details with an distr. (Heir, hoer.) Well, now, with respect to cri miaal justice, if you have a Secretary of State for Ireland, what will be the consequence ? There will be communica thin on all mutters with the Irish judges, tied with the Irish Attorney-General and the Irish Solicitor-General, sad that will keep up the distinction ot Irish adotinistratim ; whereas if there were inc Secretary of State responsible for the advice which he gives to the crown as to the exercise of the preregte live of mercy in all paste of the United Kingdom, in my opinion the burden upon his shoulders would not lei more onerous, while the sees! te'ioa would be much greater, arising from a conviction that in the adminis trxtien of the law and in the dispensation of the prerogative the some principle wee applied in all parts of the United Kingdom. (Hear, hear.) Now, the very circumstance of there being a separate communi cation wi:h the Irish law officers and the Irett judge+ will tend to keep up t e eistinctiure which we wish to abolish. (Rear, he .r.) Sir, lam sure no one (eels more sensibly than I do the extent of business which presses on the minis ters in the crown ; but there is no effort which I would not melee to relieve the Secretary of State from the facetious which he now p gems, and make him responsible for tha administration ot government in Hegland and Ireland—fee instaace, if the mile inal administration be too heavy for the Secretary of State, that i. rot a function which has at all times le-en inherent in the office. If in the alteneion of the office of L -rd Chancellor, two judges shall be aoppoinfid to discharge the functionswhich have hi herto bet n discharge d by nee, I hope the gov.rnm nt will coasider whether it would not be possible to team fee so much of the rbut, istration of the de tails of criminal justice as now b.lonis to the Secretary of Sate for the Home Dep .rtment to the new (thew in order that the Secretary of State may be able to apply hi. steal seded attention to legislative matters and to the details of xecutive government. ( Hear, hea-.) Depeea ue -n it thtt aster you have made this change, what yeti went in lr.lond will be the moral influence of a man of the hiehest authority—(h an, hear)—and I consider that the authority will be much higher it it be remelted by the Secretory of State fur the Home I/apartment paeee.sed of sal the %vino ritywh:ch the crown can confer upon him for the &denims. testiest of all the political affein of the united empire than if it be exercised by a Secretary of State appoii tad for Itell• live purposes in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) I do not quite understand bow this Secretary of State for Ireland is to dis charge his duties. Is he to be resi:ent in Irelan I at that peeled of the year during which parliamentary duties will not require hi. residence in Begleted ? If he be resi dent in Ireland will he have the fun power which a secre tary of state ought to have of Attica in a time of emergency with known and unquestienable au•herity ? (Hear, heir.) Will he he entitled t- act upon his own authority wh:n he has no: the means of communicating with the sovereign ? Will he be able, when he is in Ireland. to signify the Queen's command ? It he is to be resident in Ireland, Ido not exactly see why the -bjectiees which teply t a the preseut adminietration sheaf not apply to him.(Hsse. l I do not exactly see why magistrates should not then have the same tendency as they have to rely upen tee gevern meat, why they should Lot be expected still to refer to the Secretary of State on every point of diffieuhr, allegine, as they now do, that were they to get for the.nselyee they might afterwards be left in the lurch. (Hear, hear.) If a Secretary of S.ate is to be there to whom they can refer, why should there not be the same tendency to refer to him as there is to refir to the L .rd lieutenant? (Hear, hear., If, on the other hand, he is to be permanently rest lent in this country, then I cannot eel why we should not mak • the experiment of calling upon the Secretary of State to discharge the united 'unctions. Di pend upon it, if the right hon. gentlern t Sir G. Grey) were relieved of some of the details with which he is now burdened, and were to say, " I win undertake the administration of Irish as well as English strain ; give me a subordinete staff for manage ment of details, but let there be one mind to di' eet the whole of the executive again and to determine the principles of legislation," depend upon it, I say, he would not have a greater demand upon hie time and trouble in undertaking those new functions than in conducting the affair.' ot his office in communication with thom who would say to him, as all Irishmen are apt to soy to Englishmen, " You know nothing shout Irelend— (l.ughter)—no Englishman is at all fit to interfere tears are certain trinciple• with which you come over principles of iustices and equity, and so forth, but still no Engl:sernen can undere'and all the mysteries, and all the neeuliar rela tions of Irish society." (Laughter ) This Irish secretary will he erompted(by has Irish friend., who will inculcate these doctrines up -n his mind; an $ the tight bon gentleman only hnd!tiis newlcolleague—o --ordinA'r and co-equal with himself, having a matt ring of Irish knowledge, end perhaps aim followed by a -me Irish members—be may tied him very dis agreeable—(" hear, hear," end laughter)—without relieving him from any portion of that husiness which really causes vast ensiety sad uneasiness, and occupies no much of his time. (Hear ) I earnestly advise the right hon. gentlemen to take the administration of these functions upon binned. 8 r itobeit, in conclusion, confessed he did not see the change proposed by this bill with complete freedom from atciety and lie asked, as a compensation for the risk he w wiliing to incur, that as much unity and uni•ortnity as possible should be imported into the machinery of adetinistration. Mr. E 11. ROCHE shoubl otter the strongest eppo, i het in his power to this bill, and he warned the house spinet mak iog a change for the worse at a time when Ireland was in a state of collapse. Mr. NAPIER likewise opposed the hill, the peofelueti ob feet of which was to make a c mthined executive system ot government; whereas it perpetuated aseperate administration tor Ireland and transferred it to En:land. Mr. SADLEIIt supp erted the bill, contending that the bulk of the Irish nation was favourable to the abolition ot en office which was a most ine tfleiret mode of govern:n.l Ire land, whilst it was anti-national, insulting, and degrading to the Irish people. Mr. MOORE criticised richer ly some of the speeches sented to pus this bill. heh. whichud bout d a n hy n a l d eir in oa- Lord NAAS said that, although the office of Lerd-Lieute dat re :f e e l li u vt se a dr t e s a end oiin t h h i ic e sa calledrthe i rland 4 prec e dingfoh s m t oor h i s t orica l information iliillra ttbi before he trite o r rg he en a f c r o "o l ( 4: a n g r e atnga Governor vir tues,nof R we his real power. But while he voted for the abelition of that th a d a cant it t kh had been sa bE r n e as.. h old thr ea t: . .0 m itt, raw, as a bad mode of government, he did not approve the erode which was propelled to be subetitutid. Sir G. GREY said, there were two teiestionit entirely distinct, and which should be kept so—flrat ttek office of Lord-Lieutenant should be abolitle Aseolffiyi what manner its duties should be perk parellmetrint • consented to its abolition. He agreed that iduf, retina OM 111 t 1 • II 4 I ~~'