The Press. — London, England, 1854-03-18 00:00:00

MAROR 18, 1854. earl at the head of the Government—l suspect the latter— the dinner was postponed. (Hear, hear.) Nothing in my opinion could be more prudent or more judicious than that determination ; for, in the circumstances in which we are now placed, and at such a critical period, I should say that it is far better that the Government should abstain from demonstrations of this nature. (Hear, hear.) The dinner at the Mansion-house did not take place ; but a dinner did take place at the Reform Club. (Hear, hear.) I do not expect the Government to put an end to dinners at the Reform Club. (Hear, hear.) Clubs are celebrated for their cookery, and a great number ofthe members make preparing for their dinners and eating them the chief object of the day. (` hear, hear,' and ` Oh, oh.') But, although it is no part of the business of the Government to put a stop to dinners at the Reform Club, if they thought the dinner at the Mansion-house injudicious, I do not know how they could think the attendance at the Reform Club dinner of three Cabinet ministers and of an admiral just appointed to a high command otherwise than an injudicious step. (Hear, hear.) 1 suspect wo shall soon have to ask who are the Ministers—who are the Cabinet ?—where are we to look for the administrative power of the country ? I look upon this occurrence as a proof that there is a majority and minority in the Cabinet—that there are differences of opinion in the Government upon this and perhaps upon some other important questions. ( Hear, hear.) It is said that the noble lord the member for the city of London was asked, if not to preside, at least to be present at that dinner. (Hear, hear.) I need not remind the house that that noble lord, in the midst of many political successes and of some political reverses, has contrived to show that he has some respect for his own character, and for his own position—and he was not there. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord the member for Tiverton, how ever, was chairman upon that occasion. ( Hear, hear.) Another feature of this dinner which gave me great pain was the presence of my right hon. friend the member for Southwark, the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests. (Hear.) It is wonderful to think what a change a few months of official life appears to make in public men. (Hear, hear.) We have heard of men who have grown old from the anxieties of a single year. (Hear, hear.) We have heard even of men whose hair has been tamed grey by the agony of a single night. (Hear, hear.) I think it was Horace Walpole who said that Ministerial language was the easiest of all languages to acquire, and that a man might learn it in a week. (Hear, hear.) It has taken the right honourable gentleman twelve months to efface flora his head all trace of that great principle of noninterven tion, in which, if I remember rightly, he gave a vote em phatically condemning the policy of the noble lord the member for Tiverton. (Hear, hear.) I now come to the right honourable gentleman the First Lord of the Admi ralty. He has been in this house longer than most of us can remember, he has held office for a great number of years, and he is a man whose language is most precise and accurate. He is not surpassed—l doubt if he is equalled —by any member of this house in the beautiful precision with which his words are uttered and placed. (` Hear, hear,' and laughter.) The right honourable gentleman is so g ood a judge of what is discreet, that, in flat contradic tion to the understood opinion of the noble lord the mem ber for London, he took upon himself to vouch for the absolute discretion of Sir Charles Napier. (Hear, hear.) Reverting, however, to the language actually tittered, as the published reports present it to us, let ns see how the matter stands. Now, the language which Sir Charles Na pier is reported to have used at the dinner—and I believe, from what I have heard, that the report is almost literally accurate—was this I cannot say we are at war, because we are still at peace.' (Laughter.) I suppose there was nothing so funny as the whole matter about which these gentlemen were assembled. (Hear, hear.) But Sir Charles went on to say, But I suppose we are very nearly at war, and, probably, when I get into the Baltic I'll have an op portunity of declaring war'—a statement which is said to have been received with loud cheers and laughter, and cries of ' Bravo Charley !' Now, it was in reference to this probability that the right honourable gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty made this observation gallant friend says, when he goes into the Baltic he will declare war; I, as First Lord of the Admirrlty, give him my free consent to do so.' (Hear, hear.) I understand the right honourable gentleman when he states that Sir Charles Napier has no orders to go into the Baltic ; but I say that it would have been just as rational and just as proper for a minister of the Crown to have made this declaration in reference to Admiral Pundits, before Admiral Pandas received orders to go into the Black Sea, as to make it at this moment in reference to Sir Charles Napier. (Hear, hear.) No notion that there may be actual war, when Sir Charles Napier goes into the Baitic, can offer to my mind any excuse for the indiscretion of such language as this. (Hear, hear.) What I was going to ask was, whether for the language which he used, and the tone which he adopted, the right honourable gentleman had the sanction of the Cabinet, or the anthority of his Sovereign. (Hear, hear.) From the explanation he has given, it appears that it was only an afteralinner speech—that, in fact, a subject the gravest of all was treated in this manner—l will not say for the purpose of eliciting cheers, although it, no doubt, did elicit cheers from an audience who were not very particular about what they cheered, nor about what the Government were going to do. (Hear.) I confess that I have read the whole of these proceedings with pain and humiliation. (Hear.) Whether this war may be justifi able or not is not the question, but, whatever sort of war it may be, it is an awful sort of thing to any nation that en gages in it. (Hear, hear.) If war be not itself always a crime it is the inevitable parent of innumerable crimes. (Hear, hear.) There are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of lives depending upon this question. (Hear, hear.) The fortune and happiness it may be of millions are depending on it. (Hear.) You are sending out 25,000 men to the other side of Europe. Yon are taking a man from each of 215,000 British homes ; in each of those homes there is a British stay idled at this moment with feelings of the deepest THE PRESS. anxiety—fear, it may be, alternately with hope. We know that before the summer is over, perhaps even before it comes, we may have news from the swamps of the Danube —news of the indiscriminate slaughter of the battle-tleld— which may strike hundreds of people in this country dumb with agony and despair. (Hear.) Were the jokes and stories of the noble lord becoming a time like this? The question is one of the gravest that can be discussed by a country or a Legislature, or undertaken by a Government ; and the reckless levity that was displayed was, in my opinion, discreditable in the last degree to the great and responsible statesmen of a civilised and Christian nation. (Itear, hear.)" _ _ Lord PAL?dERSTON : If the honourable and reverend gen tletnan—( loud latiyhter)— Mr. COBDEN : I rise to order. I believe I shall not mis interpret the meaning of the noble lord if I say that the expres sion which he used was intended tobe personally offensive; and I think I shall not be contradicted by the majority of the honse when I say that it was flippant and undeserved. (Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON : Well, we will not quarrel about words. I was going to say that as the hon. gentleman has been pleased to allude to the circumstance of my being chairman at that dinner, and has been kind enough to ex press an opinion of my conduct upon that occasion, I deem it right to inform the honourable gentleman that any opinion lie may entertain either of me personally, or of my conduct, private or political, is to me a matter M the most perfect indifference—(Hear,hear)—and I do not think that the opinion of the country, with reference to my conduct, will be influenced by anything that the honourable gentle man may say. ( Hear, hear.) I treat his observations, therefore, with the most perfect indifference and contempt. (Hear, hear.) The honourable gentleman says he felt great pain ou reading the proceedings that took place at that dinner. (Ilear, hear.) No doubt that pain arose from the manner in which the members of the Reform Club were pleased to testify their confidence in Sir Charles Napier, and their satisfaction at finding so distinguished a member of his profession—happening also to be a mem ber of the club—selected to occupy a most important post in a time of great public emergency. (Hear, hear.) lint the honourable member, I dare say, would feel great pain at any manifestation upon the part ofany body of men tend ing in any degree to express the opinion that arms ought in any case to be resorted to, whatever the interests or whatever the cause in whose behalf resort may be so had. (Hear, hear.) I dare say the honourable member is of opinion that this country ought to submit to any degradation rather than have recourse to war. (Ilear, hear.) Sir, that opinion the honourable member is perfectly justified in maintaining ; but he stands almost singly upon this occa sion, with the great majority of the country against him. (Hear, hear.) Now, Ido say, I felt very proud at being invited by the Reform Club to preside on that occasion. I thought it an honour conferred on me to preside at a din• ner given in honour of Sir Charles Napier. (Hear, hear.) The honourable member, moreover, thinks that these din ner questions must be Cabinet questions. ("Hear," and a laugh.) Now, I can assure him they are open ques tions, and are not discussed in the Cabinet—(laughter)— and, although I contest his speech was calculated to excite anything but a friendly feeling, if the honourable member will only get himself elected a member of the Reform Club —(" He is a member already")—then I am afraid a moat unworthy member—hut if he will only fall more into the humour of the Reform Club, and attend the next dinner given to a distinguished officer going upon foreign service, I can assure him that we shall be happy to hear his speech, and to allow him to discuss any ,question, whether of pence or war, that he may choose; and I, at all events, shall not think that he discredits himself by attending d dinner given by the club to a distinguished officer, one of its own members, before starting for foreign service. (Cheers.) Another start was then given to the subject by Sir T. HERBERT, who asked whether it was true that Sir J. Graham had used these words at the dinner in question?— " We, as Reformers, may be proud that the honour of the British flag to the Enxine and the Baltic is entntated to two such champions as Admiral Dundee and Kir Charles Napier." Sir J. GRAHAM, after inquiring whether the question were seriously urged, answered, without hesitation, that the report was accurate, and he bad nothing to retract. The important commands alluded to had doubtless been given from no political consideration ; but it was a matter on which Reformers might fairly congratulate themselves that two approved cham pions of reform were found worthy of holding them. Sir W. MoLEswonTn then took his turn for a retort upon Mr. Bright : " I had the honour to attend the dinner at the Reform Club. I attended there as a member—one of the oldest members—of that club. I was called on to propose the health of the Turkish Minister—(a laugh)—nod in doing so I expressed briefly what, in my opinion, the views of the Government ought to be, and what they had been. I said that we had endeavoured to the utmost of our power to preserve peace, but that our efforts had been unsuccess ful—that the time for vigorous action had arrived, and hoped that success would attend our arms. I will repeat those sentiments in this house or anywhere else. (Hear, hear.) And I may be permitted to say, that Ido not think there is anything in those sentiments in opposition to any opinion I have ever expressed. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman the member for Manchester thought proper to accuse me of having changed my opinions since I sat on these benches. I take the liberty of giving him a flat con tradiction. (Hear, hear.) I never belonged to the school of the hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.) I do not in any way ackhowledge him ; and, although I recognise his talents, I believe him to be full of Mend and narrow minds: (1 prejudices. ( (:hers. )" 245 Mr. DISRAELI suggested that the speeches at tho dinner under discussion might have been treated too gravely : " I cannot help thinking that some extenuating circum stances might be alleged at the present moment on the part of the right hon. baronet (Sir .1. Oraharu 1. It is, perhaps, possible that the right. hon. gentleman may hems) verbally and indiscreetly interfered fbr a moment with the exercise of the prerogative. It is possible that he may have told Sir Charles Napier that he was at liberty to de clare war ; but then it is a matter of considerable notoriety that Sir C. Napier never obeys orders—(rheers and laugh ter);—and therefore, taking the charitable view of the case, when the right hon. gentleman tells Sir Charles Na pier that he might declare war, we may be quite confident that he would maintain peace. (Renewed laughter and sheers.) I think also that too much stress is laid by my gallant friend behind me (Sir T. Herbert) on the remark of the right hon. baronet, that he felt considerable gratifi cation that two powerful fleets were commanded by Re formers. I confess when I read that passage for the first time I felt a slight shock. (' Hear, hear,' and a laugh.) It seemed to me to show a partisan spirit which ought not for a moment to enter the mind of those who would ad mi nister the Admiralty of this great naval country. (Hear, hear.) But, on reflection, that objectionable passage as sumed a different character. No doubt it wan a subject of congratulation that these two large fleets should be com manded by two sound Reformers. (A laugh.) Rut it should be remembered that there are at this day 'sound Reformers' and gentlemen who do not reform, and that, therefore, we must look on these gentlemen as two Con servatives. (Loud laughter.) It is agreed that Reformers of the present day are the most harmless animals going ; and instead, therefore, of this being a partisan toast on the part of the right hon. gentleman, 1 came at last to the con clusion that it was a harmless and amicable passage. (Laughter.) There was another passage which at first gave me some alarm; and that was the invective expressed against the Emperor of Russia. ( ('beers.) Having been just informed by the noble lord the member for London that we were still in negotiation with that potentate ; that we have been daily apprised that war was not declared ; and considering that only a few days ago we were assured by the Prime Minister that war was not inevitable ; I con fess I did consider that for an English minister of the great talents and position of the right hon. gentleman to goto this dinner and deliver an invective against the limpe mr of Russia was most undignified and indiscreet. (Cheers.) But, sir, farther reflection showed that there was much more discretion in the right hon. gentleman than appeared on the surface, for I remember that more than a year ago lie delivered an invective against another Emperor. (Cheers and laughter.) I, who have not the experience of that right hon. gentleman, committed the grievous blunder of calling the attention of the House of Commons to that invective. I thought the peace of Europe was in (binge'. But the Emperor of the French became one of the moat trustworthy and cordial allies ' that her Majesty ever yet counted. (Bastard cheers.) Therefore I have no doubt that in using that invective against the Emperor of Russia the right hon. gentleman sees farther than we do, and that we shall soon count that potentat?. as the moat cordial and fkithfnl ally of her Ma jesty. ( Loud cheers and laughter.)" Mr. SPooars remarked upon the solemnity of the struggle on which we were entering, and rerom mended that a day should be set apart for a national hat. Mr. Connzs defended the member for Manchester in a speech of some length and acrimony, after which the subject was allowed to drop. THE GREEKS IN TURKEY. The motion for a committee of ways and means proposed on Monday night was used by Mr. MoNcx- TON MILNES as the means for introducing the subject of the Greek insurrection in Turkey. The hon. mem ber asked for the production of a "circular letter" from Sir H. Ward to the residents in the lonian Islands, a document already published in the news papers, and then proceeded to advocate the cause of the Christian subjects of the Porte, exhorting the Government to take care that during the coming war those races should not suffer under severities, and that at the end of it their rights and liberties should be duly guaranteed. Lord J. RUSSELL recognised the importance of the subject alluded to, and assured the house that the Government had not lost sight of it. He agreed that it was our duty to do everything possible to wards improving the condition of the Christian sub jects of the Porte, who, notwithstanding the favour able disposition of the Sultan, had suffered great evils, chiefly through the conduct of a licentious sol diery. The advice of Lord Stratford had always been directed to the mitigation of these evils. Turkey had already shown her readiness to improve the condi tion of her Christian population, and, while the Bri tish Ministers were anxious to discourage the Greek insurrection, they felt sure that if that movement succeeded, and the Turkish Christians became Rus sian subjects, the change would prove anything but a benefit to themselves. The immediate object of England was to secure Turkey from Russian aggres sion, but the interests of the Greek inhabitants would be respected and duly maintained. Mr. llicn contended that the wrongs to which the Christians in Turkey were subjected required more active interposition, and called for a more positive declaration on their behalf from the Government. 1111=