The Express. — London, England, 1850-02-20 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 20, 1850. IMPERIAL P. HOUSE OF LORDS.—TvaiDAT, FEE. ID. 'no Low) CIIA/SCIILOI took kb slat opts H. Wookask at oclock. PETITIONS PRESENTED. 1110111TCTLITIAL PIWTICTION —NA•I4IIATIONLAWI.—B7 So Duke of RICHMOND, from eke asstora division of Eass.skire, Is favour of agricultural protassMal st a lea d prat, for a mall of Ike oscillation laws as rogaraal RAILWAYS ABANDONWRIFT BILL. Bad ORANVILLYL la mass the mead ►wditle 4 •Y bill, said it woe itlestially as mum as that which pawed through t►e other tear of parliament last reolow. Alva a abort couvereatied; la grUa. the Lord Ckaareller, Lord Lea/dale, the Dula of &Wsted, sad Lord Beau. mat took rart, Lad MONTRAOLI aggelled *aim the AM iaeleate, would be better to refer the hill to a WM committal. Earl ORAN VILLE sag that he would made: that attar, sad etato the malt ea Mundy seat. The bill wet that reed m mad tine. TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND). The Rai at OLIINOALL enowded a bill to facilitate the lemeht of lad is Irelmi, whisk was nod • lint Their lardada Mamma at a quarter pact 8. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—ThseDAT, FEn. 19. Tile 13r4azza task 11144144 at • quarter to 4 cVaLsek. MANCHESTER RECTORY. Oa the coder et the day for the mead remain of the above 001.7LBrRN compleised that a measures( so mach importance should he allowed to pen unnedised through the hours se a private bill. lie trusted that to eumwdetwe the rights of the church sad of individuals would ha taken eiam GA sad, therefore, ha would not offer my opposition in the meant stare of the bill. Bit R. INOIIB took a similar view of the question. A measure which had reference to the spiritual wants of 450,000 people could hardly be looked upon so a private bin. After an observation trout Mr. Cnairrontia, the bill was not a second time. PUBLIC BUSINESS . PETITIONS PRESENTED. POST OTFICI.—By Mr. CHRISTOPHER, from Lincoln shire Mr. LOCKHART, from Newark; Colonel MURE, hem R enfrew ; Mr. 0. BUNCOMBE, from the Hest Riding of Yorkshire, Colonel BOLDERO, from Chippenhans ; Lord J. MANNERS, from Colchester; Mr. MACKEN ZIE, from Sothetlend; Mtjor BERESFORD, from Eifel Mr. T. EGERTON, from Runcorn; Sir JOSHUA WALMSLEY, from Bolton ; for a cessation of Sabbath Motu is the Past-offios. Aoatcrtsvinr. Priori(' tion.—By Sir J. Y. BULLER, Iron 16,390 i 'habitants of Devonehire ; Lord E. MAN NERS, from Stafford; Sir J. TROLLOPS, from Lincoln shire Colonel KNOB, from Great Harlow; Mr. R. TIMOR, from Cuwarthenshire ; Sir J. WALSH, lion Radnorshire; praying for agricultural perfection. - NOTICES OF MOTION. LAnouttso Caasszs.—Mr. RANEY postponed for a kstaight hie sown respecting the coadition of the labouring alasses. --- Tate FRANCIIISI.-84 DE LACY EVANS, on Tuesday am, to more for leave to bring ia a bill extending the franchise to all persoc s paying a direct tax to the crown. or befog used to the amount of 51. annually for the relief of the poor. Pau. SIONST.—Mr. R. BERKELEY, on 'the 25th of February, to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty to lay on the table papers respecting certain vessels, the Princess Amelia aid others, w►icb, between the years 1745 and 1747, sealed from Bristol with letters of marque sad captured 'moral prizes, =Aiming in value to nearly a million of /mosey. UNIVERSITIES OF OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE. la reply to Sir R. Isaias, Mr. HEYWOOD crated that he must postpone his motion on the subject of the Universities until after Easter. SAVINGS BANKS' DEPOSITS OF PENSIONERS. Mr. H. HERBERT, refernng to a circular issued from the War-office some yews ago with the view of encouraging military men and oessionen is Ireland to deposit their smogs in savinas barks, promising government security, can to the fact that is am* instances government had made goad tepenisaire in Ireland the deposits los.. by the Whin of dame basks, inquired whether the chestier had extended te thisoonnitry, sad whether deposits P.m by the tailors dealings backs in England would be mad. good in like .maser to pesaioaen ? Mr. F. WAVLE replied that the circular had extended to Eashad, but se payment had been made by government of deposits of the nature referred to is this country. The sway weld only be made good by an order from the Maneary. SAVINGS' BANKS. Mr. SPOONER wished to know whether the Chancellor' of the Eatikequer would be able to bring on his motion with mord to this savings' banks ea Friday ? Lord J. RUSSELL did not expect his right hon. fnend the Chaacellor of the Each, quer would be able to attend ; sad ant the other balsam fixed for that day would be reseeded with. OFFICERS' WIDOWS. Colonel CHATTERTON inquired whether the Secretary at Wes bad any objection to errant a return of all officers' widows who have applied (or pensions Woes the Ist day of January, 1840; stating the names of the applicants, the rank of their deceased hushands, the soma per annum granted to each, and, in case of any refusal, the reason of such reveal, with reference to " wealthy circumstances " only. Mr. FOX MAULE explained that the warrant under which pensions wore awarded to the widows of military offi cer& gave no claim of right, but the peados was given by the crews under the roeulations of the warrant issued by the sign manual. He had no objection to give a return of the number of officers' widows now reneiviag peasioce, the rates of such pensions, and the task of the deceased husband in each case, but it would be invidious to give the names of those lichees/hose ci remestanees compelledthem to become re cipient' of the public bounty—(hear)—and he must in like mariner and for the same reuon decline to give the names of those who had reused the grant; on the ground that they were in wealthe circusestanses and did not require it. The task of awarding these mashies was a task of no small diffi culty, but it was • duty which had always been executed with fidelity by his predecessors is can, seed which he had always endeavoured to execute faithfully. (Cheers.) INCOME TAX. Mr. HENLEY Myths called attention to the reduced value of real property ekes the valuation of 1838, on which the income tax was levied, inquired if government intended to bring is a measure empowering pencil whose incomes were in consequence diminishid to claim a reduction in the amount charged on them for income tax, and also to tenants whose rents had bun reduced, but who were still amused on the basis of the old nut ? Lord J RUSSELL replied that it was not the Inteotioa of the government to propose any alteration in the Income Tax Act, though he should not object in such cues to any amelioration which could be afforded under the act as it steed. (Rear, hear ) AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.—THE POOR RATE. Mr. DISRAELI presented a petition from Great Marlow, setting forth the difficulties tinter which the proprietors of real property were labourieg, in consequence of the undue burdens imposed upon them, and the operations of free trade, and praying Icr the restoration of protection. He bad mother petition to the same effect from the Society for the Protection of Real Po piety in Baths, which, however, Mice he came into the house he found he was unable, in consequence of an informality, to present. The petition having been laid on the table, Mr. DISRAELI again rose, and said, Mr. Speaker —The depression among these classes connected with frecitalture, referred to by the petition, whose prayer I have jest placed upon the table, matinees since the meet ing of parliament, when that depression received no wisps thy from her Majesty's government—l may toy no recognitics—(hear, hear, from the Th e nprooists)—it become even darker and more lowering. 300,000,0001. of capital invested in the cultivation of the soil by the farmers yields so profit to the cultivators of that soil. Another year has commenced, bringing them the same gloomy prospect in this respect as the one just concluded. The value of the fee itself is deteriorated—Other, hear)--ead the factitious employment of the 'showing population in the rural die• theta, which, to the honosz of this country, has takes place, necessarily and naturally daily diminishes. ACheere.) Since these topics were last adverted to is this house, the report of the poor law board, to which the minister on that occasion coshdently referred, has been placed is the hands of members, and we have seen in that report the date from which the government justly draws the conclusions on which they founded the arguments they then used. I am boned to say that almost from the commencement of this year 1 have siyiell received—(and I believe in stating what has m oaned to myself I am only repainting the position of every c i Le t ssan in this house conaected with the agricultural )—I have myself r. milted reports from a considerable amber of unions in toe eountry, which convey • different malt to that which is so anuratelrregorted m the docu mentto which I have referred. ( Hear, hear .) But the dote of the aggregate of facts there pointed to our cotta was may tap to the first day of the presen t yur. It since then that th at employment, which is ventured to describe as faseitious. has greatly dimiuithed in the agricultural dice a thus. (lieu, Mu.) It was my lateution on th is point t o have moved hi the house for returns up to the 18th of February, similar to that we have up to the beginning of the year, but I found that such a return would ent a il es • I bunch of the administration which has already greatly exerted itself to afford authentic information to the house and to the coon ry—(hear, bear)—so enormous an amount of trouble that I relinquisthd the ilea. And I might Indeed (though I wish the task had fallen to one of greater i n n, veer) venture a remark on the general conduct of that Manch of the administration. Per many years the central management of the poor law emited ao much conttmeny and odium that it must be mat satisfactory a. contrast the position which it now occupies with reference to public opinion to that which it occupied three years aeo. I Oreat cbeerieg, ) I shall avoid on this occasion entering into any invidious comparison in the attempt to investigate the causes which have produced this result, but it certainly nun be a source of as much gratification to the country, Si doubt it is to the government, that this brand of 1 110 OlainlOtistiont so indnistely cuiwcted with the pm*, should lie cosousted, as I believe it Is, a imam to entitle it to public ocatitloato. (Rau.) Do t my, speaker, we haw tersight so laquire:sthat is the bat eiline to take to resew% if Pealth k ee t tinniT In Id lei ve gl s ge:r ealimisi n nilisli i hensiegobilievi s gsat Ural& ash, Whim oftelemed by ressatingidatiwrametira onosee); by the ressien`alteradeas ia V ig int i r d , girwaremmit repeal of the law IN* termed she iiims , Mika el hmiss rodeos. (Ir ,lent. .)) We imiliiii, es 1 Wades of the hawse that the the mai Oil lim mai effineitins mode, is* the slob in Ihs Mt ism illi I I be the most sivssimesans Is the esmarstie. sod stir masmi =ia tho @wow" maid be the sewsisbiblmene et we obi* n=rialei tb o == ante : 1 11 =1:=Illam Issas hinsliss) Tholes *AIN r e Le t ranikile in si be si =i, me as v o l ik hisse mui ssma so r t. 11 isgkasilshgleg W Is Ibis imam. (Ohms hem the amilmenesi dds ef i Vrenss) TIM Mese S to who, and him and use mey MEWS W beim (Chasm) Speaks Or mystif mil *5.1 momma it Sinn I bras Um hewer la oft I nay WM a• ail Is im, way it from es the es**. (limas) Ire lava Isms =L ear opinion le essihis tits esselodest whisk meet mid Omgh as mewl we lave atesespeeff il advomme I. this hems is wiped es Ili pat' "abject. (Hear, beer.) Ws Me believe As priesigiss es which yea haw often rated pm Lainiffild lege oft nen Wee. (peosennalet cheers.) We still believe ilea lims thas will come whist you will acksmelsigi she Indi ef sims oftertioa youssives. (Chesis) link eilleno I spit ' ant of elision that dimwits is the ssnl of shim ISM eili of the free oftatly, and though I know, M less{ I hikes. t 0.,, are occasions whoa ramendeft, log ase:Alsmsmisms, sob of the highest dusy and mut messelpt OW is e ; mill I met amino my wriaiss•we • nlnno= shoe is is not advantageous Mat Ibis haw Imams a mare dreads( _misty.ham.) And, generally speaking, I this& iiionsdea Amid nut be originated ankle it be emassini with some medial tab jut of immediate attainment. (Him, haw.) Now. lil t I will speak with the mss whose brass= es this plat. A the divisions on the solibmas in bath beasts of perils mat, we were of opinion that @sly .me ammineisa amid be draws flint theme fide i sad theegb in neither beams the divides was at all ia renting, to MIS merits of that radar trial system which h popularly korai* by the name of pro tittles, still we gotaM not list oar i to the fact, the prasileal esankaiss. that it some the Maim el a large easiesky Is bells he et ssuilansal Ikea it wadi be un wise te dhamb ma Om sessimmone whhh this se ntry bed ao nerraily at is ebb Impost. (Roa, hear.) , Under Mow desnmslemssa i , and as we do a ' Unto body el the polio sits see in %bonsai thew opinion by Moth of these changes In law, and having arrived at the onivictisa that no remedial measures, so far Si in abrogatlos of recent legislation, would be obtained from the present parliament, it becomes our duty to see and to consider what entree might be taken which, without controverting the convictions of the majority of the house, might nevertheleesoa far u the fortunes of the th units were concerned, be of a remedial character. I ( i thre i rs.) From the time these fiscal controversies first commenced in this house,' have always seen,samming that those laws which regulated the industry of the country would be repealed—l Wm always seen looming in the distance a great alternatives fle whisk I have been surprised your moot eminent states men have shut their eyes. I have away@ thought it you repealed those law, which regulated the indus try of the country, 'spinally those which refer to the agricultural indusuy ot the country that the cultivators of the sod and all claims connected with the cultivation of land would offer this alternative to the government—" If you deprive us of the system of legislation under which for so bag, a period, and under Tunas modifications, we have enjoyed oar property or pursued our industry we shall ask this of you in the name ofjastin, In the name of hameaty—that you at lust adapt our positions to the altered circumstances in which you have placed us—(hear)—and that you rune the system of taxation which prevails in this country with refer ence to its equal and just distribution." (Loud protectionist cheers.) I do not think the claims of the various classes connected with the soil could be placed more neatly or more consistently before the House than they are stated in the petition I have presented to the house to-day. They demand of the government of the country two things—diet, that they should be placed on a footing of equality with their fellow subjects; and they de mand in the secArd plate that they should be plead in their own market on an equality with the foreigner. (Renewed protectionist cheering.) They refer is the first instance to that enesmous system of peculiar taxation from which the majority of the people of this country are exempt, bet which they have to beer—(hear, hear)—and they refer is the second place to those decal restrictions which, when yea have placed them in direct competition wilt heelmene, prevent th em from ex , fling their utmost mungies and availing themselves of the greatest and freest rerrearess— (Cheers.) It appears to me, sir, that these are shims lee golly expressed and founded on severe judos—(verawed sheering from the same quarter)—end if than who hurried on—as I believe most unhappily hurried on—the repeal of thaw laws which regulated the importation of Melo agri cultural produce, did not at the time sufficiently tad ear platelf consider the consequenc e of the course they now 'among—if they did not well and fully w in " whoa mum a m be the inevitable result of the new system mg* to establish, much as I may regret the we of ea= so enicent—great and even perilous se may be the ewer quinces of their intention—l mason as the repreasedstive of an agricultural constituency refrain hem ding my duty to those who sent ne hers—(hew)—and in this House of Commons, where there may be a majorit of economists I arum think I am acting wrong if, notw ithstanding their anamaical convictions, I declare that I have still conti• demo in the justice of Englishmen. (Cheers.) My business insight is to touch, and only partially, on one portion of that great theme which, I believe, will for a considerable time mull the attention of parliament. (Protectionist almses.) Tra hoe. member then reviewed in detail the miens cluses of tax and rates oonoerning which he had resolutions to propose. These rates he argued, even by the admission of Mr. Home, fell in great measure upon the oc 'spier and tiller of the land. Dilating upon the paramount importance of the territorial population, and its value as a creator of wealth and preserver of order, Mr. Disraeli appealed from the judgment of the house to that of the country in denial of this dogma that land was to be lumped up with other raw material, of labour. Yet, even accepting that dogma, he argued that other raw materials were more favoured by the legislature than the land. The margin of profit storied by the remiss on he should propose would redeem large districts frees impending abandonment sad sterility. The hon. member then referred to the sub jest of rent, and vindicated the landlord cam from the sneer whisk stigmatieed it as limited, luxurious and Willa. Mr. Disraeli then proceeded thus: I took cession recently . to meatioa, availing myself of the ✓esearch and opinions of some of the most eminent writers en the subject, I took occasion to remind the house that the &rafter of lauded proprietors In the United Kingoom was probably about 250,000. (Cheers.) Now, I ask the holl-111 to consider what is the aristocratic element el that numerous and important class? I Imagine that you could not fix upon a batter test, to ascertain a truth of so much importance, than to canteen the number of ma norial emus in this country. It is a subject upon which you will not probably find • return ready to your hand in the libraries. But we all know that in the United Kingdom every parish is a manor, though every manor is not a parish. but, with that great fact to guide us, and allowing most liberally for those manorial estates that are not parochial— allowing even that one-fourth of the manorial estates are not pagetehial, and that is a very liberal allowance, you will pro- Llfind that there are 20,000 manorial estates in Eng (Hear.) The manorial estates constitute the aris tocratic element. They are the estates of that " squire ! arehy," as they are called, whose pmonsl estates are alone concerned when they legislate for the land. Well, thee, you find the aristocratic element in the class of landed proprietors is exactly one-tweifth of the whole. But, divide this by the rent. Take the rental of the United Kingdom at 60,000,0001. • year; and if yon divide that by 2.50,000, you find that each of then has 2401. a piece. But as we all know that many of them have more, it follows that many have much lase. (Hear, hear.) Yet this is the class who are painted always to the passions of the people as a luxurious, profligate, end aristocratic class, though they are the most thrifty, the most industrious, the most hard living class, as a clue, that probably exist in the United Kingdom. (Cheer..) I say, than, with reference to the interests of this ctais„ yon ought to legis late according to than rding to jus tice, and according to those economic principles, as they are called—which you are constantly parading. And, therefore, it is that from these conclusions I arrive at this result—that say discusai.n as to the incidents* of taxation whether you say it fall on the owner or the occupier, In eider to decide whether you should do that which you ought only to do ac cording to the principles of political justice and economic truth, is, and has been heretofore, perfectly idle, and that in taking that course which argonaut, and reason, and autho rity alike recommend, you ought not to warder whether your are benefiting an owner or an occupier, but whether you are doing justice to a most important interest— the land of England—(hear, hear)—and, in doing that justice, whether you are permitting that land, which you h.e. thrown into competition with all the soils in the world, to be worked in a remunerative manner 2—whether the profit go to a landed proprietor, or to an occupying tenant. (Loud cheers.) Now, si r, . with these opinions I proceed to call the attention of te Mau to the first branch of this important subject to which I have adverted, namely, the relalon of the agricultural interest in all its clams to the g serf taxation of the country. (Hear.) I nave, before this, with the indulgence of the house, taken the opportunity of calling their attention to' the general subject of local taxation in lin.eland. The facts which I then placed before them w, re not contravened at the time. They have nut since barn disputed, and indeed may gentle tun of official authority, who took part in the debate, acknowledged the fasts to be correct. On that weadon I shooed to the house that the clam connected wilt, the eel in Nogl.nd, iidependeutly of eoLtribating to the general revenue of this country, con tributed to another revenue in England to the amount alone of 12,000,0001,—(cheer)—that all the objects for whteh that sound revenue was raised were objects of resent interest and national concern. On that MOW= 1 included the land tax in the aggregate amount. I took that tax at 2,000,0001. The soundness of that proceeding' war acknowledifti by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and would he by say gentleman who had given attention direct eto s n ubj tre t lead a" , wadi admitted that trough though t it waslo i Call t wyaira a 4isodt" there was a difference between it and the other 10111155 of pi ria l° ' .... 4 iie z ei t i n ri . bisi l it .""ill d. : i t t a t t y w as ell i P :o i ed n a is t t u h o lt y th teras e ammema ill.". ra se to - day. It is only anther s ntance - how Ihe land of England has at all times haft made the machine ft paying more into the Exchequer than it was jUltifitri in doing—(hear, hoar) — fee the land-tax was originally a tut ea all Wads of sad it would sot be dillicult to chow that perhaps Ixo,ooooool. bays betatzi e t by the land, osier the Wawa. of that la Jostles, it a :daot to (Ohosial sa = tabk. la Fovea ■ the Wag thladoa of tte sida y t ait us i e dl Marble ta•aigbt, whigh 1 aria, sad aot the Ifsa-saz, at = t. .. !. .l A .r t ar I. sk.. that tho_ house Mat in eaw lit j sa l aleareeter of this pe nile:- revenue whisk le sir elleileitably raised, and whlitlies been subseftesflee milk a spkit of 'Worsen for se leag • period, la WNW that It nig nitre properly con eider fin realist Irma of that taxation to which I am obese to .ail i ..Nestles seers spedfiedly. That breach of the lesel tandem an the United Hie giose to which I Isla to sae selealisa is, la bet, the poor Tahoe. (Hear, liar.) I 16e, eir, that a geatlemen, the him. member for (Yr. Andersen), has given nodes to mono an t epos my modern to-sight, to white I will for • menesat advert. I w that Mr. Animus is tomem, es an amemimeall IS my motisa. tt Oar tbei op pada4mest of a whet minnffillen to Is arise late the effects of tee Wes be &MOOD du Importation et eons and Mier Morimalimal Rua the year 1816 to the year MB, both laskeles ; eh% Me the relative amounts taw. Ohm. lessi sod gesual, midi have been levied dialog dee mos parish ea eadmilmel sad ether Ferny sag tammmes." lfew tima opus's is me, railer seehmey m the meem ehmealmess, ttibe be a r way smilbb Wks; mei Vibe Ma. = hi he Odom_ Minim Ihr es, hobs lei is this hmase i =k l.9 l: weedh l at r e s =it m sa imegyesei Mem o lama I ma assure Mistime all the imilematim he dukes as be els• tuned on ids Impertmat WINS systol e. ad Net If he examines the whim reperls et eammelliess sa syrieslters, who ban set In this buss and in the Hesse of - Lords, he will dad every broach ottrmatiea imply supplied, and he would net have doused it metraery to move this mead ant. Indeed, I bays bare, imatissi by a geatlsman of gnat authority, a Oise' of all the bilmiemstien upon this which hornlike& It ie not calf from the year 1816 ea eke 1848, but from the year 1800 to the year 1848. Awl, sir, he will fled that landed property has psid brie. that period 681,000,0001., drawn from nulls semstary returns, to 169,000,0001. which other property has paid. (" Hear, hese," and lead protectionist churn.) Now, as I do not myself--as I anise wish to insist upon the com parative trideatm paid by the difetiat daises of real pro perty—as I thank it *re kw the lad to pay peculiar taxes, au this fahemsdes, with ask noire that refers to the amendment, really is net of the 'lightest value tome. I I will make se use of it in my Matement or argument, but as, in the huh thiaps of his, an lohersimage of parliamentary courtsey is use the bees asegisable—(" hear," and laughter) —I brought the ithentatkm down to the house to We hen. gentlemen, in order that he might make us of it In his speech. I venture to uy that if he =Au good use of it, his speech will be one seldom equalled for statistical informs. lion, but, unfortunately for him, the effect will be that all his fasts will entirely refute all his foregone con elution. (Loud laughter and protectionist cheen.) New, I venture to call your attention for • moment to a conside ration of the nature of the poor-law. I have cove before taken the liberty of saying that et appeared to me that the poor-law was a law which could oaty be vindicated on two principles--eithu as a matter of polio!, or sea matter of social duty. If a matter of police—lf it be the interest of society that, by providing for these in want, society should be secured from the consequences, from violence, and from repine • send if it were viewed thus, u a matter of police, it was eqiudly the interest of all concerned, and it ought to be, of course, supported by all. (Renewed chews.) But, if we take the higher view, and consider the maintenance of the poor, which we on this side of the house do consider it to be, a matter of social duty, then it is quite clear that, if it be a social duty, ft is the duty*, all &wording to their mesas to support it, and therefore it ought au to be • tax and ought not to be an impost charged on one kind of property. (Continued cheers.) But every gentle man knows it is an impost charged on one kind of property. (Hear.) I will not enter into a wearisome inquiry to entr ain the amount of the property which is subject to this ins pat, end the amount of those properties which are privileged and exempted. Never mind whether it is a fourth or a third of the income of the country whether 80,000,0001. bear the charge which 240,000,0001. ought to bear, or whether the actual figures might not make the disproportion and injustice still stronger. The great truth remains that the vast majority of the property of the country does not fulfil the social duty which all acknowledge. (Loud cheers.) It is said, and has been meetly said, with no novelty of observation, but with some authority of semi ' meat, that land In this country Is inherited or °therein acquired subject to this charge and similar Agrees ; but we shall now more pertieelsrly confine moselves to the top c before us, that of the poor law subject to poor rates. Thetis an observation that always tells, and that perplexes if it does not convince; but, with rer-rence to this proposition, then is one simple but efficient observation to make upon it—that it is not tens. (Loud protectionist cheers.) It clearly is not bus with respect to Ireland. (Hear, hear.) The land of ;relied was not acquired or inherited subject to poor rates. It clearly is not true with respect to another of her Majesty's kingdoms—the land of Scotland. (Hear.) The land of S.ditland was not inherited or otherwise acquired subject to the tax of roar rates, But it is not true with reference to a very considerable portion of the lead of England. The house would be sur prised if they investigated the topic to fled that a con siderable number of estate, of some large estates, and of same yeoman estates—they would be gunned at the num ber of estates in England which were not acquired or inhe rited subject to this charge. (Hear.) I had intended to give some names of proprietors of these interesting estates to the hones, but I decline to do so because the list would be imperfect, and lead to erroneous conclusion,. If you come to me and say, "this man's estate was inherited or sequined subject to an impost," I must rip up the annals of the country, and ascertain whether that property was not iaberited or acquired subject to other taxes which gave it an adventitious value. Sir, I think the time has come when we must seriously consider whether we cannot adapt the position of all those classes con netted with the land, as regards taxation, to the new cir cumstances in which parliament has placed us. (Hear.) We do not on this side of the house relinquish one jot of the opieions we have maintained. (Protectionist cheers.) We shall be prepared at the fitting moment, when opportunity offers, when the occasion serves—when the house, from experience, may be more disposed to listen to the accents of truth we shall then remind you of the system you relinquished, and perhaps of the disasters you have consummated. (Hear, hear.) But, in the mean time, accepting your legislation as effected, understanding that • pledged majority is resolved to act upon that legisla• Linn, which we believe is every hour more injurious to the interests of thew we stand hers to support, we feel it our duty to commence • series of measures temperately brought forward, sustained only by argument, open to refutation if you can refute our views, which will, in the aggregate. materially benefit the suffering interests that we wish to aid. (" Hear," and cheers.) Now, sir, lest year when I called upon the house to smut to a motion with respect to our Lee taxation, I was met with the objection that the design was too vast, and that even if the arguments on which it was founded were admitted, the state of the ex chequer would not admit the government to accede to my suggestions. I hops—nay, I am sure, to night I will not be told that because I confined my observations to one por tion of the greet field, I took a limited view. Now, I should propose several resolutions in committee, if the house will consent to go into committee, the object of which will be, to mitigate the distress and depression felt ia the esti cultural districts at the present moment, believing as I do that that distrees and depression are passing clouds, es com mercial distress and depression are in the habit of being described in this house. In case, then, I can induce fits house to go into committee, I should propose in the first place as the first resolution, that some not inconsidera ble rtmission of taxes on real property be made, a remission which would not be subject to either of the objections I have alluded to, and partially combated . I should take as the basis of my first resolution the establishment charges in the United Kingdom, and which are scarcely, it at all, con nected with loc al administration. Your system of local administration would remain intact, pure, perfect—your machinery unaltered, your checks complete, even though the house should secede to the resolution that from the 25th of March, 18-50, the establishment charges con nected with the relief and maintenance of the poor for the United Kingdom should be furnished from the general revenue of the country. That, I think, would amount to a sum of 1,600,0001. Establiehment charges are barely subject to local adminietratioo, and recollect that no men, even with the greatest powers of braes—(laughter)— can rise and say that estates have been acquired subject to such charges. (Chun.) Their origin was known, not to the oldest, but to the youngest inhabitant. (Continued laughter.) I should proceed, then, to deal with those rates which, generally speaking, have been raised by the machinery of the peer law, but which have nothing whatever to do with the maintenances of the poor. The abrogation of these rates would not interfere with our system of local government, and in future I would pro pose that they be raised upon the general revenue of the country. (Hoer.) The registration of births and deaths cost the country n0v1760,0005 a year, and the preparation of the jury end borough lists oust 24,0001. a year, and both these amounts real property hes to pay, together with the cost of the sanitary law. The aggregate of these miscellaneous ' rates passed in this hones almost without observation, and within the last few year., and not including the establish ment charges, is nearly half a million sterling for England alone, and no human being can rise and give any reason why this tax should alone be charged upon the real property of the United Kingdom. I should propose, thin, In committee that from the 25th of March, 1860, all those rates levied ustd.T the machinery of the laws for the relief and mainte nance of the poor, either by the county rate, the police rate, or the er abliabinent charge., be defrayed by the coneol,doted fend. I hope these two resolutions are sufficiently explicit to induce the hon. member for hiontrows to vote for them as he half promised yesterday. (A laugh.) I should also pro- Ilese in committee that from and alter the 26th of March, 1860, the casual pour throughout the United Kingdom *mild be • shall* transferred to the general revenue. (Loud protectionist cheers.) This is net at the present moment • peculiar charge. It is heavy in Scotland, sad in England It is Waited on the union rate. Now, sir, I think there is to be said in favour of these pro in the first place, that they are just, and in the 'Jocund pleat, that they ere essentially practisal. They re quire no machinery, they destroy no old machinery. The hulk of them may be furnished from that balance in the exchequer of which we have beard so mush. I think it of great importance that a minister who presides over an overflowing treasury, represeutlng the WWI that hays produced title prosperaty.—l will as say at the cost of agricultural dianses. l bat auspiciously concomitant with it—(protectionist elteers)-- I eay can *mein no position happier, no occasion more felicitous, than for the noble lord to come torward and say, " I have unbroken faith in the principles on which the nom. ml renal system of England is founded. I believe that Awes principles, to wliiek I gue • tardy but a sincere went, are the rat mars of the wide prosperity of my .-- courry. I deeply deplore that lb. Imre- Mat blilllllll4 of the state is at this 111011IMIS I 111144111,6 haft bees e.gl safeties, and time Is )601 a prosper of as faurrefOr b at I am happy, r a rural stateman, to same leeward, add I •, do amaze the leaded obsess of this sourer sad all the *linters of the soil that then Y la the mirth, and In the pediment of Begird a darn sympatli bl / iz with th eir suffer. lags, and, what is mere important, thee in some degree to mitigate them." (Chows.) I appeal th confirms to the noble lord, because be has on more than ous accedes :a ura what men be earful is hint, a_ sympathy wi th the t dames. I sonnet holleve, that, Is the permit star of the Murry, when ropssitiens Meet% foreard, as I think, with lo muck moderation, with espied Mae majesties, urged, I believe, with temper--I mann searin that repositions of Ire ramie, will be (remind with any heartless opposition. I hardly knew with what aegaapte we are to be met. All the usual sees to white I have reamed, which might lead to a mon determined attempt to grapple with the cabinet, are entirely shut oat from this dimension. All they fan say is that 'You ask so little, and it is so easy to be granted." In this house, where we are mot by a pledged majority, which will seemly listen to a dheumion of that nature, we an only drag ear duty, we are only comiliating thek interests fa taking every opportunity to Misd ate their hardens, to offer some remedy for their sufferings, and at least, if weft:mot accomplish immediately any great ' financial, result, at lout do this, motleys this great political purpose, that we may teach them not to despair of the institutions of their country. (Lead sheers.) Sir G. GREY said he might begin the observations which it would be his duty to make to the boar in answer to the speech ofthe hoe. gentlema the member for Bucking hamshire bye:peering his satisfaction at the course which the hon. gentleman had takes in thus early in the session bringing forward the motion whisk be had sow sabinitted to the brae. And he thought die agrisalteral Internet were indebted to him. more perhaps than some of those about rat might themselves think, for the course that he had adopted, for, from ell they had heard ening the last few months of the proposidons which had been made at county mating., held in so many parts of this kingdom --after all the con& dent sathipatier there expressed of ea immediate, or at least an early, mars b protection--after all the cheep of those who are sitting near the worthy member for Nuking hainshire, and who are compelled to take him as their leader—it was satisfactory to her him coming forward in the name of that numetons and distinguished party—it oas satisfactory to those who were prepared to adhere to that system of commercial policy ow which we had lately entered, to hear the hon. gentleman the able and recognised leader of the patty, amidst that party, declare in that house that he believed, at least so long as this parliament existed, a return to protection was impas sible. (Hear, hear.) The hoa. gentleman on this occasion had said but fire of the actual distress on which the whole basis of his motion was placed ; he had sesunted the existence of deep distress throughout the agricultural districts in this country ; and the only allusion which be had made to any particular instance of that distress was, supposition, in the alarm of information, that since the Ist of January, 18.50, . when the returns were taken and compared with the returns up to the Ist January, 1849, if returns could be obtained they would show a gnat increase of distress in the egrisultural districts. Now be (Sir G. Grey) believed that to be a per fectly gratuitous assertion ; he believed there was no evi dence whatever to justify the maromption that there wan a great inners in the number of persons receiving relief, though, owing to circumstances which always had an effect, such as a long frost, it might be the case. That he did not know to be the fact, but it might be that a number had thus been thrown out of employ which could not be followed in such weather, such as draining. The honourable gen tleman, In assuming an 'acreage of distress in the agricultural districts, was assuming that of which there use no evidence whatever. With regard to this . question of distress, however, he did not want to join usae with the hon. gentleman as to the fact of that die trim. Itwras admitted In the answer to the address that there existed distress, as there had existed on former occasions, and he believed the adulation was made slant in the identical terms that were used on former occasions, and her Majesty, hy the advice of her ministers, had lamented that it existed. He believed it was a notorious feet, that the prices of agricultural produce had bees so low that the occupier and owner had been in great dis tress. That had arisen from a complication of causes and among others from the importation of grain ; but, look ing at the condition of the great bulk of the sericultural population of the country, and applying to them the teat that was applied to other bodies, there was no indication of an inmase of distress, as compered with recent periods. Those tests were crime and pauperism. To establish this point Sir G. Grey quoted many documents, com prising reports from the Middlesel and Quart. r Ses ame; and from poor-law authorities in Ireland and Scotland. The right hon. baronet proceeded to say that he would not deny that distress did exist, but it was chiefly in the clue of owners and occupiers of land, but to a less degree than in many other periods that might be named. He believed that in some casts the wages of labourers had been reduced to a greater degree than could be compensated for by the reduction in the price of necessaries; but speaking of North Northumberland, the district he was connected with, he did not think the wages had been de• greased in any greater degree than could be compensated for by the greater cheapness of provisions. believed the general neult of an inquiry throughout the country would show that wages had not been se reduced, though no doubt there were districts where they wore ; but be must say that where reductions of that kind had taken place the burden had been made to fall unduly on the labourer, and unless rents had been re. dated in proportion an injus tice had been done to that clue of the population on whose behalf the hon. gentleman had said so much. He did not at all complain of the hon. gen tleman not having given more distinct information as to the resolutions which he intended to submit to the committee of the whole house if the house should agree to the preliminary motion, but he must say he hardly expected so important an omission as that with respect to the new poor law. There was no reference to that important point, to the great bulk of the agricultural body, the law of settlement. The hon. gentleman had stated beim that if there was a transfer of the local taxa tion to the general taxation of the country it would require a national rate. Now, he must say, without entering into that question, that it was one which must be considered with the p• or law ; and if they entered into a committee of the whole house on the poor law the first con sideration must be the law of settlement, because he believed the evidence taken before the committee, of which the hon. gentleman and himself were both members, in relation to this inquiry, all tended to show that the law of settlement did operate prejudicially to the interests of the agricultural community, as it placed their labour under im proper restrictions, and he believed that a well considered and judicious alteration of the law of settlement would be a great boon to them. If the hon. gentleman thought it wan not a point worthy the consideration of the house, he triaged it would be in the power of his honourable friend at no distant period to make some propositions to the house with a view to effect an improvement in the law of settlement. He came now to • the propositions of the hon. gentleman, and to the foundation : of the arguments with which he introduced them. He would not dimes the principles of the poor law ; he believed I they were well understood in that bowie. Now the founda tion of his whole argument was the injustice of the =tu t sive burden of the poor rate being placed on the landed in. • terest. He took down his words, and it occurred to him directly, that the hon. gentleman had made the same mis t take he did last year in confounding real property with the landed interest. He said that the landed interest contributed to the local taxation twelve millions. Mr. DISRAELI made some observations across the table which were inaudible in the gallery. . . Bit G. OBEY said lie accepted that explanation fully, and therefore let it be considered when they were epeeking of real property having contributed twelve millions, they were speaking not of the land only, but of the great bulk of pro perty which was assessed to the poor rate, and had been ever since the poor law was passed. The honour able gentleman had said it was not just that real property, property in the soil was his term, should bear exclusively this lug* burden, and he spoke of land decreasing in value and going out of cultivation in consequence of this exclusive burden. In *nether part of his speech, to which he 'should afterwards refer, he spoke of the continual Increase of thaws burdens, and he went on to speak of thole burdens being exclusively on land. The hon. gentleman had anticipated two objections, which he said were formidable ; one he had wholly admitted ; and the other he said was startling at first sight, embarrassing, and perplexing, namely, the impossibility of taxing, for the purposes of the poor rate and local taxation, personal pro perty equally with real property. Another was that, from time immemorial, real oroperty had been exclu sively barthened with tnis species of taxation. He would take the last first, and must join issue with the honour able gentleman, though not exactly in terms. He bad said he could prove that there were landed estates in the country which had not been bought or inherited sub ject to that burthen. lie had instanced the estates of his noble friend near him, and said that they had not been acquired by the family now ix mooing them subject to the previsions of the 43rd of Elizabeth. That might be gaits true ; but if the property had been subject to the burden of poor rate since the 43rd, f Elisabeth, though it might have been bought or inherited before free from that burden, the lapse of time would certainly crests s good title by prescription, so to speak, in favour of the poor rate, and it would be an odd ground of exemption to set up that the property had been an the possession of a particular family from so distant • period. (Rear, hear.) But, looking at the great bulk of the p °party in the country, he wee pre pared to affirm that, even since the statute of Blizab , th had passed, r, al property, and that exclusively, had borne the burden of the poor rye. The hon. gentleman bad not de nied that proposition ; he went off on those , states which might have been acquired before the 43rd of Elizabeth, but did not deny that land bought, inherited, or acquired in any way since that statute had passed, had been exclusively subject to the burden of poorrates. The 43rd Elisabeth required that property to be rated to the Mitt of the poor should be Meal, visible, and productive, within the pariah of which the owner was an inhabitant. Thus, conditions could not be found co-existing, as to the great bulk of personal property ; therefore, whatever might have b en the intention of the statute ingrowing that test, the legislature had excluded, (and practically the exclusion had boa as newly complete as possible) all personal property from all share in tkis burden. It was true disputes had arisen US to the lish,lita of stock in trade to be rated to the poor; but every one conversant with the subject keg.' t h at is never bad been so rated. It might have been attempted in ' ' two or three lariat' ; but the attempt had been found abet). ' 1 lately hopeless, and any rate laid en meek &principle hod been , immedtatly quashed for its inequality The o , thrilowt to such a principle of rating were, *et it would be Mesita/I I , to p tat. tradealeate amounts, for not oily stock in trade mi:e gil heelf, bat 6 suet be rated • there wesa ham to be an of Mew same s affairs, sad if that did sot re sult in a pieta sad meant* statement of these affairs, lie rate t be leMinually appealed agalest, sad say rate at all bombs impisible. It was =that pound, and en that posed en/y4l: aft was annually passed establish the pessoual property, to pretest molligollem •I property whatever. 16 hr front there bolsi • growing blades, of the injustice of which the owners of real property had a right to complain (a oemplaitt which was rather hinted at than directly ezpr.ued by the hos. gen tleman), cot oaly was this alkgation wholly unfotusded, but it was eseeplately disproved, the burden harts diminished by one 'alias, while the population had isereseed from ten to seventeen millions. This was not all. The hon. gentleman had passed very lightly over mother pert et the subject— *e proportion borne by the lead to other real property assessed to the relief of the poor. Re had stated the land to has. two-thirds of the whole. jut ) ot au t h c ec s pe ech oft wt ri a u o f the itaikirt:al hon e hgwe i.thbutgonetedertne. ofte gentleman , m e a hEipe a yln n o.wgoht ! ,hisnal .toeho ! o - oeoltnuw::p 7 lisierriat briciimyosohhis.:ilahe 4.2:44...aeit.__ ,411, ( tr a a ..... sty ‘ol Tt ß hit a a " r o t e ate baronial ther i ris inbeetio sees i s s ' o b e a" ur gen t na an d ' s e. foreignl s c o t : a f f ha o an hli ti t te l pi e d d mr r o d n . p i rc e parliament I' , : . a f i f t e te n n t o: it gentlemaniltimt whether th ( ' d e het ktt yon may m e h o o n ow I I t. to en e,eee fight . your le e wba they ettle: th we o e meab k use .iriei m thh b oi l w e e d in,i wi eche r toa ou e t wet practical way of obtaining th we e a Cel of any knight stated his political reputation on a pro trthh: pmi utteorhniesietmut t oe i stio u tatrhooc u tii.t used • I right to at Lapittfieenalm rep utation d e e z h p i r s isli pr , o A p i o• w i h ti i o c n h . That was a question to which he was bound to giv e a l e & iseplieit answer. The hon. gentleman spike of the spi rit ad ' Grey) had listened to that speech with wean girstifin s ue temperd i d not iil containwhich ails:grated from the spirit an d temper which pervaded O. (Rear,) It any nee, and could not in the sligetest de gret be mad e the subject of criticism. (Hear.) In the answer which he e ele - G. Grey) made he hoped he also abstained hem anything which could be considered as giving Orel:tee toat y eion of the community, or as indicating a w ee pr. sympathy with that portion of It in whose behalf the bo n geetleman spoke, and for whom he to -k epee l'imsell th e t iouTl irk—the hopeless task, as he (Sir G. Grey) helj e ,d n - i restoring protection to agriculture. ( flea, , rev.) Ile ;Tee hetereste were intimately connected with the line, rind is opinien nothing could be more prejudicial to the inters, ' ill s I 11.1 th relief ll e e t I t r e f e adopt . o "f e t e r d m t i a t e h e ipt e ua( t system rr: parliament rmt wasnlnht e resulta rb o u'y e i a any t l o e h l i f g e a the t discussions gh question. egetelmiemvtedw et that in e i I: t ( ti le t h ie t a „ , recurs .t. h ses r parliam ent a'oatn• this subjat would, at least, have the eft. et of • ,e,,,, e „ , l selves d FEtbb she i on a yner eeustunmh c coruscations ," u itoecee s in reasonsi:t te n fweodimbr s , n, ' ,:hh II:: e.c sevhhe u oßyl iteour for dmaiwtt oppose do:B h phun e ey"elt y levoke be,t. the those who had been led astray by the t r i ant - :„ . aided by that persevering industry which thareetethed tura' cages to suppose that they did not possess in ane o li degree with the rut of their countrymen. Mote h t . ., ) gentleman. (Cheers.) The Hem F. W. CHARTERIS preferred an appeal foe justice to a shit in forma prtuperia. Capital, stock in trade, ' and funded properties, did not pay their fair proportion of the taxes. If the legislature could not contrive an equitable rating the landed interest could justly require a measure of compensation. They asked no favour, bet a right. Mr. A ANDERSON, while iteehee., to emharress the question by moving the amendment of which he had given notice, entered into some details, ithseine the advantsgeous results of corn law abolition upon the eutployment and food of the people. Mr. H. K. SEYMER, in the mach playing between A:I England and Lancashire, would take the aided All England and believed he should win. He stood by his class, which was the most important in the country. If the agricultural party bowled well he anticipated a return to protectioo before the close of the session. Mr. RICE advised members opposite to abandia all idea of protection. He was an old freetratier, but had voted for a moderate fixed duty for revenue purposes, and still be laved that measure would have been beneficial by breaking the fall of the agriculturalists to a total repeal. Sir J. TYRELL denied that the ouseon of a prayer fee prob. ction from recent agriculturist p'tttione signified an abandonment of the claims for restoreeet e The increased consumption of commodities attributed .1 tree traders to na tional prosperity, he compared wi'h the fecivities of burglar, Total amount £ 5 ii802,000 ••• £90,972,000 after breaking into the larder end robbieg the till. At ::. 1 So that, so ter from the land having gone out of cultivation comparison the parties chi, ft: 'melee eel laughed irrepree e in 1848, as the hon. gearleman imagined, there was a poeitive bly, and the laugh redoubled when the ban baronet pro increase In its value as compared with 1843; and the smaller seed e d to desizeitte Mr. Villiers as the destroyer, end Mr. proportirm which its velue bore to that of other kinds of real Cobden the aivider of the spoil. property arose from the still greater increase in those species Mr. HOBIIOUSE contended that Mr. Disraeli's pro of property. (Cheers.) The general result was that, while positions were absurd vim Lis own snowing. The meteier there had been an Increase on the whole of the real property for Buckinghamshire completerd of the inequali•y et re assessed to the poor of .5,069,7361, the increase tier cent. had 'don, yet proposed to remove only two out of twelve me. been—on land, 2.5; houses, 49 ; nitwit's, 126.1; while the lions of those unequal taxes. All taxes were ceeesserey diminution on the other tunes did not exceed .5 per eomewhat unjust, but their weight generally fell upon the cent. (Hear, hear.) haul of land bearing, as to operative chow, because lounge upon mere luxures ci..l 1842, a proportion of 62 to 48 to other kinds wale ptioniiioi:: not be relied upon bas revenue. Taxate n was at preset% , of property, the proportion was now that of 45 to 65. (Hear, rude instrument. The compenericn claimed by :he a.r. hear.) The first prop-sal of the hon. gentleman was that culturiste they already punned in the shape of ...ee. the whole of the establishment charges of the poor law exemptions from taus, and had &haul at least epee' .:-. should no longer be charged on the property assessable to the late redactions of excise and other duties. the poor rate in England, Ireland, and Scotland, but should L i ed I. eILANNEas thou .. ... . , ~ be borne by the imperial treasury. He estimated thou . nous reasunable mai practicable. Tney involved charges at 1,600 , 0001, which might be mance For Hag- . . ..._ .. ... ___. land, the returns gave them at 776,0001. justice to aey elan; and, a they could not entirely ?more agricultural d:stre-s, would alleviate it. The destine:l,a ',l Mr. DISRAELI—The last return is 980,0001. crime was a fallacious test of the decrease cf distress. I: Sir G. GREY said that in that year the operation of the proved emly that th e agricultural population was less turee• act with regard to removals hail thrown the accounts into lent under euffering then the maaufactur , eg. Adeitiens tad confusion, and oc.asioned an Le ttttt of expense; bet a very been suggested to the prepositions, end they had bor. great reduction had taken place, to the • :teat of 200,0001.; termed i 'complete, limed, wed peens lure; but co , a:..1 sad he believed that for the tut year the establishment argaineuts were adduced ageinet them. Sir R. P. net charges amounted as nearly as peasibie to 776,0001. With long since, had concerned the justice of mussing late, upon mud to Ireland he had no detailed information, but the personal property, lad these were principles this - were now other half of the 1,500,0001. might be taken as the este- proposing to earl. out. A mitigation, if not • roam, of the blishment charges for the parts of the kingdom exclusive of wrong iefficte el, would be thus accomplished. England. The hen, gentleman said the transfer of these Mr. BRIG lIT sail—l must admit that the speech ! tee charges would violate no pismire., and could not be objected hoe. gentlemen the member for Barkinphamashire has • if% to as transferring the administration from a local to a general o f a more practical charaver than ',seed. I think ther., c. authority. There he differed with the hon. gentleman . been fewer eepreesions teat tended to mystify the house a:A (Hear, hear.) Though a portion of these establishment perhaps the wintery also ; still I cannot refrain from et charges die not rest on the same ground as those rendered pressing my strung belief that both the house and the coun• neeeseau by the money expended for the actual relief of the try will discover that tee grounds upon which the Le. poor, yet there were many items in which the gentleman Imes his ',Gotten are altogether tette greatest extravagence might be practised, and where. by nable. The hon. member for Buckinglistrahire, as I under removing the local check of selfinterest, the charge might stand it, Cline, before the house with a proposition bared be almost indefinitely increased. (Hear, hear.) o o c n i:df jot o that y af.f. titeb:hleme kind. iih i r ,i;no . c :id ' .1 1 ,.. A '", chiefly upon the fact which many hon. gentlemen seen do large proportion of these charge. were open to that objet posed to admit without question, that there prevails throuelo. Lion. The hon. gentleman next proposed that all other out the comer; a very large amount of extreme distress, and rates raised as poor rate should be transferred from the local in some war or other this proposition Is intended as a compel taxation to the general taxation of the country. sation for the loss of the corn law, and he aseerts that it e nc: Mr. DISRAELI—Not the county rate. unjust to the general interests of the country, while it wie Sir G. GREY had understood the hon. gentleman not give a real and consffiereble advantage to the classes of to include the county rate • but he included the expenses which the hon. gentlemen is admitted to be the advocate. of registration of jury list', Of sanitary measures, and differ- Now, I am not disposed to admit without question the hon . . ent rates, amounting altogether to 500,6001. member's first propeainon, as to the existence of great ago- Mr. DISRAELI-700,0001. cultural distress at the present moment. Th.re is no hem memberiu this house, nor many persons out of it. who do Sir G. GREY—Then the total amount to be Co transferred toe know that ther e are cuss of tenan t farmers who, would be 2:200,0001. Looking at the nature of sme of during this present year, have been carrying on their these charges, he was not prepared to ask the house to Legs- agriculture' operations not only wi•hout loss. hut act:e tas by anticipation any proposal which his right hon. friend ally with a profit. (Stroog expressions of dissent from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whoa he came to deal the opposition.) And further, I am prepared to state with any available surplus be might have in hand— that the hon. member has not submitted to the house Colonel SIBTHORP—Hear, hear. (Laughter.) one single well authenticated case in which the fee of the Sir G. GREY—Any proposal his right hon. friend might land hos been depreciated in value, or in which its rent eta make for transferring any particular charge from the local ban permanently lowered. (Hear, hear.) The hon. mem• to the goner.' taxation . (Hear, hear .) Therefore, in h er saes t h at t h e f armer , h ave three hundred millions .tf arguing the hon. gentleman's proposal, and cautioning the capital engaged in the cultivation of the soil, that they are house not to agree to it, he wished not to be understood saw°. eul fluting it without profit, and that the few of the nouncing against the removal of any of these charges. Sem. such charges had been transferred in 1846, from the local to late' has depreciated in value. Now, I am :or the most part disposed to dispute these assertions, the general taxation; and he was not prepared to insist on but, for the sake of argument, I will admit the: such • distinction in principle between those charges and what he sass is true. Has the hon. member ever cast re some which the bon gentleman had enumerated, as would eye over other di scriptions of property, or considered weer justify the house in taking its stand on that ground ; though h ave b een t h e fl uctuat i ons i n i t . vent., during the la,: t. ur he was certain that extravagant expenditure would in some year; ? (Hear, tear.) Has he inquired into the condtem eases arise. In future, in dealing with any specific prOpesi• o f t h e m i n i ng i nterest , o f t h e Iron manufacturing inters,:. tion as to theme charees, he woulecume to it uufettered and or that of the owners of mills engaged in all branches of unprejudiced; and in resisting the hon. gentleman's t h e s t a pl e manu f ac t ures o f thi s coun try .7 (Hear. hear I propesition, he would not pledge himself as to hie Has he ever inquired whether their selling price, or that it future course. The third resolution was that, from their productions, has been as high during the last thre e March next, the whole amount of the charge for years as it wasfir some years previously 1 And above a. i the relief of casual poor should also be trans- h as the hon. member ever cast his eye over the sheer list. in ferred from local to general taxation. Without even attempt- which 1 here he has no other inter-et than that of ast oc ing to give au esemate of the expense, the hon. gentleman tator ? (Hear, and a laugh.) It hes had made those proposed to transfer the cost of the casual poor throughout inquire 1, be weal have found that the great rsterny Eneland. Ireland, and Scotland, at once to the consolidated fund, and said that no possible reason could exist naiad lesion of this house. (Hear, hear.) Four or fire peers ante this being undertaken by the treasury. the railway interest was perhaps unnaturally prosperous. sow . interest has beet affected—affected, ton, by the unwise iecis- Mr. DISRAELI—There was no casual poor in Ireland. it is unnaturally depressed ; and with regard to that inte t r e es at . (Laughter.) as connected with the poor rate, 1 would relined the house . SSA over 3,tele parishes p smounu IJ of • y there. Ireland, then, was to receive no benefit in England, that the poor rate of these parishes e, the t on. Sir G. GREY admitted there was a very stringent law we have factsto show that the railwa ys objectionable than the transfer proposed. The report of the jenty of which have not station in these pro from the alteration. He could conceive of nothing mare 800,00 W. per annum, and that these ratters. , e. tin. pay owing to local examination, and the interest which existed (Hear, hear) Crime (proceedei Mr. Bright),.• lamentably entrust . a involve's/ • terriele Poor-law Board recently laid on the table, showed that, 250,00 e/. out of that 800,0001 tour rat e . iL . e .e u r d ing erie pe s e o e .' in keepieg down this branch of expenditure, a very great of high . price s, to raise the cost of feet happened had the relief been thrown on the fin If the twee° , tome Were not eew ein reduction had taken place, which would not have responsibility upon any attempts for them. penal treasury, and of which the country would soon lose the abolition of the corn dudes formed no justification ' ea two millions a Tear benefit were the proposed transfer carried out. Last year They would occasion a traos.ereece . _ eeee , the hon. gentleman had gone further; he had proposed to from reel prop rty . to thou industnrl could employments aproleele transfer half the local taxation to the general expenditure , were already heavily taxed. How ., in ists hied 5) imel and, acting the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, satiety the clamour which the pelecttin farmers , .__ ,e had proposed the ways and means. In this his present excited during the swam ? The selecseed anea ,_ e ' e r e e . ei. scheme was absolutely deficient ; he merely said the chan- did not attempt to remove the . ~ Y . —, 1 7 „, Nemo and malt. Nor dui they cellor hail an ovens ming treasury, and had talked of a Mr- the duties on tea, to , o - thing had fallen from his right hon. friend to justify the bon. willing to support the tettent B h the:went oe tun lee plus sufficient to meet these charge.. He denied that any- one word about reforming the gant ee e m law e. s , . c., o , or a i rr w r y gentleman's assumptioa that the surplus wean be sufficient introduced into the house . Mr. 68 t . of the' P ra- I adte that without involving the necessity of fresh taxation. That position of the honourable member . admit...e. s".O , t , he to meet th is 2,200,000 e, with an indefinite amount more, I will tell you what is new& being so, was it just, expedient, or reasonable, without taking It us practicable and simple, and the Ire position l ast sin a general and comprehensive viewl"..7 thst some t" interest.the , all teapp ly to this. rho pr op osition do ojec !i t o io t eswhich wereoluseeteo of n e of el fa. certain local and eerier' anticipate a proportion of the surplus revenue ? (Hear.) =limns sterling, now eV.. a bui,,~g., classes, and th e general financial . condition Tee hon. gentlemen said thee his proposition was ream.- purposes on landed property an Oi ta. theabaft_een 15 , 0 . mended to the Louse by its justice. He did not think the be not so colleted , but bet conferred ..,e g . 17 1 .; A bon. gentleman rah established that, be cause the charges tioc of the country, a very I. rte . l're , N e e whi h the hon. gentleman complained of had been assessrid which, much the large et, comes upon t r t i t e g o ': s t hq on real property from the 43rd or E isabeeth, and the claim of the people, and rs peel in taxes o re by the leo. which he urged on the growl(' 'hat the protec ion which the 0311SUMe. (Hear, hear.) If thee, as ril__,. the r esult land had heretofore enjoyed bait been taken of might be member, theca taxes are • burthee en oee th e e r` ~, the ~,,,, qually advanced by other breeches of industry as well as of his preposition will be that the rte of ~ ' aericultural. Then the hoe. gentleman said that his pro. will be able to mist as much to the proprietor.'sfer of Inall: n. pellet was practicsl. He (Sir G. Cerny) did not think it was, subtracted from teak burthens by this tun a L 0 the new.: at least to the extent to which he would carry it, (Hear, hear.) Now I think I ..7 itp. when reek because the approoriations which he claimed were more than whether the time is not gone by when Lae the excess which - remained at the end of the financial year, meat would 'Aston to any proposition N o e _ , „ I.,tfy ee l and it would be unjust to the o th er chimes of the community from property and placing them _ o n e s e e on . 0 , tho to have the &sericulture' interest exclusively favoured, whilst consulaptiem. (Loud cries of o Hear, hear .) i ab ) o Tioa h i n . they did not derive their fair share of consideration in the great meets of the measures adopted by that al ille tee" appropriation of that cum. (Hurl Neither is it prac- baronet opposite during his tenure of eitieeee i s e _ . t . eeeee. ca n due, on the ground of the extravagant expenditure which have 'Jun taken oil, which certainly, inente ts e se ; on , 0 . would be caused in the traneterence of these bur:lens from never be reimpued . You have fou nd t hat eam but tbet the , ' local to general, and from general to 1 mai administration , suseption are not only not the most pr . _ u t , e p _ oe , e. in a 1 ' The honourable gentleman said that this was only ye destructive of the comforts f aw n o r e u ll i r noth be the first of a writs of measures. That Mecum- 'Delius that no Chancellor of the Ex ‘.. f q the country he Menai also should make the house cautious before Pe found to ask thee the revenue net only talses adopted the first meseure, till they knew what the ell- Mores-ad by • system of taxation, which eteres with the i l tall , •TY WO* Ine.ietteell t.' be proposed were, and where they w mild the money from the people. but i o ni e woakinn leve l ete in lad. (Meer.) The hoe. gentlemen said ho was not in the and comforts of the great bodyth e ) Let it then nera lt Y habit of stating out Of the house what he was not prepared of the kingdom. (Hear, hear. comes f the hoe. m bar m the to grate in the house. The hon. gentleman, Weever, kept understood that the proposition e IlestiOn between hie ulterior measures to himself. But tb• them wet* not to this. Ido not say that it is a q hero. eg- Leeteet tee stem as ' • alegeother in the dark wi'h elm Ito som., .4 rat least, land and the towns, b e c ause 1a I end ape tow a , . held tit his hands what be belteeed was a noticed and net has shown that the a , Mr. DISTUALI—I bog the right hon. gentleman's par don. I did not stake that statement, or advert to the proportion. - Sir G. GREY had eo understood him. If the hon. gentle man had not adverted to the subject, it was the more neces sary he should do so, that the house might know the real proportion which the land bore to the whole real property of tie country. The poor-law commissioners, la their report for 1844, alluded to this subject, and said, " There is no doubt that the value of the rateable property in Englund has until riots a groat increase since 1813, and that there has been en annual program. The total annual value of the pro perty mussed to the property tax in 1816 In England and ale was 61,891,4231., whereas the amount in 1843 was 86,802,7302" 8o that, not only had the grog., charge diminished by one million, comparing 1849 with 1813, not only had the population increased from 10 to 17 mil, bat during the was period the whole amount of property asessed had incressed from 61 to 87 millions, the 61 million, bearing the larger charge of 1813, the 87 millions suffering a burden very much diminiahod in amount. (Cheers.) He had been enabled to bring down this return to a later period than when it was quoted last ' session by the Chancellor of the Eachequer, and he found there had been a propeuive increase each year in the value of real property—without distinguishing land from other kinds of real property. In 1813 or 1814, the value was about 61 millions; in 1142 and 1843 (he would only give the first flaures—the millions) it was 86 millions ; 1846, 86 millions; in 1846, 88 millions ; in 1847, 89 millions; in 1848 (the last year for which he had returns), 91 millions. (Hear, hear.) This showed an increase en the whole period of 39 millions, or 76 per cent.; while the burden was diminished to the extent of one million. (Hear, hear.) He would now show the proportion which land bore to other real property assessed to the relef of the poor. The Poor Law Commissioner , in their annual report for 184 t, sail : It is further to be observed, that the Increase in the annual value of rateable property &floes, not only from the improved cultivation of the land, and its consequently increased productiveness. but also, to a meat mesa; from the large number of new homes and other build ings, yeah as macaw:tones and warehouses, as well as railways, canals, and wharfs, constructed from year to year; and, accordingly the land as such pars a smaller proportion of the local rates in each sueemeive year, and a larger proportion falls on other portions of rate able property. (Hear, hear.) And the tables showed that whereas the property in land was 69 per cont , and of other kinds of real property 31 per cent. in 1826,—the land was only 62 per cent., and other kinds 48 per cent. in 1644. (Hear, hear.) Still, the pro portion falling on land was then nacre than one-half of the whole; but a return of the increase in the value of real pro perty m 1849, as compared with 1843, showed the following result: 1643. 1818. Lind £40,167,000 £11,000,000 Howes 35,556,000 ... 37,202,000 loiterers Other kinds of real property