The Express. — London, England, 1850-07-31 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS —Tummy, Ma 90. TM Lad Clisseellor leMa Ms seat tv Ave 'Mask. ENGLISH AND FRENCH FISERIEMEN. The Earl of WICKLOW drew the armed et of the house to the reported eapturs of sass lieaUsh Wet boats eos trin the oystetAl•bery between Diepp• lea imler , e 'll bisi bad beta tarn late the know pest by a Fnaie maim. Tlas lEargide of LANSDOWNE observed that. iessiwasik se the lIIi mewl as Dime bad leads as report ea the ealdset la ate FeroMpreflee. is might awasett Mat dm ha la weds led hem pink properle es ef sod , Medd kW Mee twain. Tim tak .seed • • l i =lve shim te her Itojeap's maw ea hear ea Ws Name Wass, fishiest whisk woe malodsigraMtllitotronma. alter whish taw moral totri isbes were Mvaaeol a We, sat their kadships BILLS OF EXCHANGE BILL Os the wake 01 Lord EDDISIVIT, tide bill weal through semaistar. sad was reported to the pew. TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL. LA GRANVILLE bresput up the report ea this whirl was wood to. SALARIES OF OFFICERS OF THE HOUSE. Oa the rashes of the Marquis of LUISDOWItII, the tools- Sims of the adore sosawittos of Me 19. b of July, ea the &lien of the parlissitutary ofises sad the tfhas el seatle sass usher of the black rod, were agreed to. with an address ,hambly newessodiag her Msjesti to sirs directions for Ye amiss of the some tato Mhos. Amid to. Timis lordships thea, at six o'clock, adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUUDAT, JOLT 30. The Smiles took the chair at 12 o'clock, when there eras • verb . tell attendance of members. TIII BARON JEWS T ROTO PARLIAMENBSCHILD.—ADSI T. ISSION OF Whoa the report which appeared ia yr terday's Express I left the house, the Attoran.emseral was speakiag is oppo. oitioa to Mr. W. P. Wood's ameadmeat--" that the bare is of opinion that the mot of Berea Liesel de Rothschild, ass I of the memben for the city of Leaden, is full." After oar report WY dispatched, the Attorney-omnd went co to say that he bed listened with Use greatest pieseare to the able argameau of his hanasuble sad learaed bind the member for Oatord—useumeats as able, ho would say, as he had twee beard— (Enna shaming)—sad most undetalstedly turd by with all the earaestasse awl sineerity width seavistisa of their eenestases *mid impart. (Hoer. hear.) Bat he regretted that his bon. sad Seamed friend led not proeseed urea his naiad the same sonvistion. What was stated yes- I tmdar by his noble friend did, is feet, rentals is setheteace thew of the ques.ion, nasely, could the, say that the I words "open the true faith of • Minimise' wen not sob I staatially part of the oath ; that they were salt' • reptant of some previous woods is the oath', sad ought to be treated as simple slasayms, sad skikt, therefore be struck out In his hen. sad learned friend's argument there wee • great deal of ingenuity, but Dentin that sufficed to g et over that difficulty. It was issued that • certain oath amid be taken in a certain set of words, and be submitted that without another statute that helms had so power to alter the form sad words of that oath. It appeared to him that it would be very dangerous to my that • particular set of words is the otth were merely words of adjuratioc, is order to get rid of cos Wag with a f 'Anita messing. He saw nothing is the statutes to enable him to sarmosat that diMealty. The omission of the wade, "on the true faith et • Christiaa," tor the affirmance in Mr. Pease's ease, was so part of the decisien of parlianisat—parlineent having ealy decided that he could take sa anon instead of an oath. The affirmation was to be takes I. sulk 'tons as would suit and satisfy his seascienee—(hear, hear) —gad U • question had bees raised upon that affirma tion, art it bad been stated it was neces sari to affirm that he was • Christian, there was no doubt he would not have had the least objee. tics to affirm he was • ehristian. The act only esprenly directed that the affirmation should be administered instead of the oath. With respect to the observations that had bees made by his bon. sad Wanted friend the member for Weed, upon the 3rd sad 4th William IV., passed sabot quest to the vies of Mr. Pease, they appeared to him to lave • contrary tendency to that which - he natesilled fer, es by that statute parlisment appeared determined to pat an end to all doult% and if such an act lad been pored in the case of Baron Itothechild, all doubt would have been re moved. But, supposing it to be clear that parliament meant in ohs case of Mr. Pease to put an sod to all doubt, the question arose, would it be right for parliament to pas as act for a similar purpose in the ere of the Bina Rothschild ? Another Estate had been pressed oa the attratioe of the house as the mainstay of the querns ; sanely, the decla ratory statute of the let and 2nd Vitt., that mooted that in all cases in which the oath takes was Wading upoa the am. science, it should be perfectly good and condone. There was nothinz in it requiring the oath to be takes la • particular form. It only enacted that the perm bevies takes it in a particular form, he should be liable to all the consequences, of an oath administered in the usual way. He found nothing in that act which compelled the oath to be 'their tuned on the present occasion. or which directed or enabled Baron Rothschild to take it. It only declared that if he did tale it in the form binding on his coa• senses, he thereby made himself liable to all the legal mauquenees and penalties, just as U he had taken the oath is the usual form. (Hon.) Hie hen. and learned friend had said that this oath was of no avaiL If so, the way to deal with it was to remove it from the statute. book. That heals could not say " this oath is nudes,, sal therefore we may &spew with it." (" Oh, oh.") It the house wen to de so, they would be theuselne jutting what was useless and what was not. (Hear, bear.) That would be giving to the House if Cos tumes absolute dispensing power. The Duly thing they could do, if the oath was deemed useless, was to get red of it in • legal manner—by means of an sat of parliamest. At no time was it a seise thing even for • court of justice to disposes with an act of parliament, or to argue itself eat of it ; but it appeared to him to be still more inns beat apes the house to keep sets of parliament strictly inviolable, and not to alter or chugs them in any way without the sanction of the other branches of the legis lature. If it did the molt dangerous results would follow. Observe what was to be done in this case. The louse was to stroke ant of the oath the words "on the true faith of a Chriatian." because the Berea Lionel de Roths child did not thist them binding upon his coaseienee. Well, but was not it jest possible if they agreed to that proposition that hereafter some other persons might, for the same na me, demand that some other part of the oath should be omitted? (Hear. hear.) Is voting that the Baron de Rothschild should be allowed to be swore in the way most binding on his noscienes--aamely, on the Old Testament— he never intended to affirm the proposition that the baron was to constitute himself tha judge, not only of the manner in which the oath should be administered, hot also of the words of which lb* oath itself should enlist. (Hear, hear.) That was s thing which he could not eonscientiouly vote for, according to the view which he took of the case; but, said his boo. sad lensed friend, you change the words our &engirt Lord King George for our Sovereign Lady the Qum. He really submitted that that was no change in the oath. As well might they say that they chanted the oath because they did not say " I, A. 8.," but inserted the nuts nth, party sworn. Speaking I. • judicial character, he did is his eel. science say, that he did not think Baron de Rothschild had takes the oath in the form and manner prescribed by the set of parliament, sod that he had taken it in a manner that disqualidod him from taking his seat is that hone. (Partial cheering from the oppceitioa benches.) Mr. ANSTEY said, that although he coasidered the speech se the Atteraey General both illogical and self-eoa trodleary, he believed it to be the ablest that could be de livered is that side of the question. He believed, too, that filed been made with the view of giving some sort of junk- Statics to the Indiscreet and unreasostable speech of the noble lord on the previous day. His boo. sad learned Mead, however, had forweetas ea. past, and bad, to uses, tulles into the very ester of the nettle lord. Be hi reminded the house that this was et_,lndicial question. If so, why was it to be prejudged ? I Hear, bear.) Why wm it nude a cabinet quakes ? Why woe the law editor ci tht crown pot forward to defend the nurse of the Prime Minster ? (Hear, hen.) Surely It would bare been more seemly sad decorous ia hon. gentlemen ea the Treasury beach to have allowed the friends of Baron Rotliseliikl to have exhausted the organists Is support of his claim be fore they called opal • majority to disaffirm it ; so sae could doubt, after the speeds of *besets!, lord the day be fore, and of the AtteraerOeseral that day,_ that such would be the course pursued. (Hear, hear.) He peotested against this prejudging of a judicial queens. Ibe snack of his hasonsable and Manuel limed the Attessey-Osseral wee se reply to the arguments ef the howvereble sad loomed member for Odle& The Hower of Cessna** bed dispensed with the oath Is ale owe AWL Peen, mad roaming ea wady plated • 4 thisratery set, taking tho allethatlea of lobed of ea oath. The beseurahloand imam' guatiootha the Auswasy•theaeral said that was a seed t ; but be had • basher authority than lit• fosweaW and hersetlemen who, ; be had the satheaky of the stele lard (Lw: d J. R gen owell) is • speech mob ea the 11th of Meech ia that house, when lie hen. tries/ sewed ids sem sti, tee to *sire tate relating tow quads& of Jews or other persons = diste adnaitted nabs their mob is the house without being *wens, NM It uses of very great nonunion Oat non itself be • sesmaties. It wand to him Um the ben se le Ow wile of who. meet, me at to the manner Is oath tls tro d =tind the este le the ease of Mr. year, von of wort (Hess, boar.) He me at a Ism te weilweeni hew It ors .." rhet "." Yr: Pere wade ennead= la the wig he dik sod Sal alleilields as en Owen be passed appolshesi Os mho Is whisk Vat timings should Ito made, kg, if lie Yam wore Nollisi IN sanitise M. Few upon his afirioatiss„ It ippon' to le umoonong oboterards to enact, by • hush act, Hut he ohotdd Nato clot simatio• Is • certain way. That wee the &titration of the prime sisiehre t wlto tail aim yesterday that, he point wee not new to hi.. Ns did ■et lentil° subject Bart■ Rodmanld not only to the less of kismet butt° perpetual disability, and he therefore gave hie hearty suppers to the au.endme■t prepossr:by the ho®. member for the city of Ostord. It,. HUMS said the hon. member for Abingdon called ■pon the house to declare that the hon. number for the City of London hid (vented hie nat. Now, ■nder the act of Charles, it ► weal), r Mused to take the oaths the Speaker was entitled to declare the seat vacant. Now he wished the ♦ttornsp•(3seral to state by what statute or law the lea. ti esabar kw London had vacated his rest, seeing that he had talc■ the eatip a 1 allegianee end the oath of &uprooter. It soma to bid that, as the hen. member had taken t assn two soft, he *aid eel ts uplift Halm Balboll4 DWAOsw elleradva dirshilides The Wes_ ..alt Ka P. WOOD—', The ATTORN W eidas that sedum, poplins ahreesir mike Mr. P. WOOD—Well the Atteesey-Cheeral be kid swig bs road when it is startend. Thu AITORNST-GINZRAL red the dans es Wat all smieberY who Me mdallid anal reddred ,rWer a sh the wad Ames' ad; the eseersom Is the add ed eseledwed. &di mirl-; Um* werdeider, tide arelualemehe Me emth d Mimed" owl mob. ' =Meths entrome sweellog to no Mtn borsht est deem mod pre. I awn* is sun wee dlisamb Mask I.- litmet Gad seldi dos abseremes din mos eseahrim mad Wm lora or the Mess laybade• wad leleddhe menhir odd ad ahem. memiseedow sew de o" wg pet en Amsted wet* set noes ofteedest or istgir d : Val I seen be dad awl tbe sine poem i d se by Me lows wed matreee ahressid an meweeL Kr. P. WOOD—Bat Ste Ist el Goa. I. diededly Medd Terprovide act The ATTORNEY-ORMULAL —My Mead will ,tree that Mors is so dizie s txral et the ser d Wm. 111. He says it is virtually by sidettletioet dine p eed ties. Ido net se es. repealed. This rot e s relonleg to the laws and Mantel sows bees," Ads the eaten d Wm. 111, that is ha bra. sod ~ =km the WNW liable to the pales ad Modsliithe as la the statutes dna ia V tens. ltr. . SMITH maid be wee ale prepared to ream tint Bona Rothsebil4 had refused is take the oath ot abbiradle, ad he maid use therefore moo ter the modes et the hoe. member for Abiagdes. By the 1 Oes. 11. Map. sm. 13, a he aadoestood, the disability es di is pained woo meted sad whatever resohnkm flbeg Witt emu te, they bad se power to hese a sow writ. Sir O. GREY end it would appear es their Penal that a isenber same to the bar, Wt o took two d Months pmeribed by law, sad that the bet oath be proposed is take Ida the missies et sends wards, whish he tend M rhea Modes they were net Wadies se his eassoldes. N. 4 1 , 41 3. Grey) m ast sa y they eagle le ham mere idea this. They oeot. to to Os 1111 maned of his Ma. ind homed the eariagsay-Oessal. sad tbisking win. his dirt Mese wadi Meng pan et the oath preowned bylaw. it have swassfing more dna that he did get sake them weeds, Manes they were set hieing ea bit enseitnes, belorethey desisted the seat nowt There was she .corker gaieties, that relesd n l the at el tiae hen Illatabor ter the city of oaa whether Meted was Mi. Now, punnet tie inmost er his boa. •aed herein Mead the Attorney Goseral, he woad ewe the Imgramisa 'ebb ewe Lad. The 30 Clarks 11., whidi bed as referents to the oath d abjars ties. deed tripresely, is tame deer sad anaidipiese, that le am et the retinal et sy mashes le take the two met thresh sollswed Sens sod reeid be adored mast lb its.. old hued bind then west as to page 12 et the sopa_ whin a clamed 13th et Minion 111. was gaoled admen( Mat my ens mbeing to take the oath of abjuration shed be disabled ben tellies Wont. His bon. and learned Mead thee won te the set et let Geo. 1., pegs 16 in the Zitwhisk issued Mare et the einem of the set or s 111., a pomading which he most esy, to his niad, wee utterly incootpetilde with the notioa t the set of William 111. wee repealed. New that sot (ht of Geo I.) did not mann cos ward shoot the seat Wag nowt bat it reetaised previa= about die tawdry to Teti for members of parliament. Thou they erne to the set of 6th Gee. 111. whin provides that *0 oath et indu rative shall be wholistend ia sash wanner sad fern as are therein stated. True it set forth the words "ea the tree faith of a Christian," sad thin followed the clause read by the AtterserGesend, which clearly made the party who refused to take that oath subject to all the pans aid pan. hes. Now, the question was whether the and let Gee. I. did, by implication, repeal the preview act et Wa. 111. Hie own erne ispotestee was that it did. At the sane time he thought they ,head be swiss hastily were they now to deride, eves on that Flint, that the seat wee nasal, and order a new writ to esp. He believed Shot the penalty still attached to the wader who refused to take the oath of sr:jawlike ; but, at the same time, both from the doubt whether that was a direst refusal to take the sere, sad also whether the am was still in form, be thought they should do well not hastily to adopt the notice of to Ms. sad learned gentleman. Sir F. TH SSIGER sold he wig nosediagly mains upon this commies to proceed with all proper antes aid delibera tion, sad, nadoubtedly, when he proposed the neolatioa it the fern in which he submitted it to the hoses, he thrash; that he was penning the coarse a prestedest, because. there wse se doubt whatever that there were a variety of Ia• stanc.s os their journals I. whin persona bad some to the table sod had refused to take the oaths, sad apes that re fusal there had beta immediately a modes for the term eta new writ. Now the Baron Rothschild nine to the table,' sad site, ping through two of the oaths, sad the greater pert or the third oath, at the clam of that oath there beteg the words. " epos the tree faith of a Christian," whin is his (Bir F. Taesiger's) iodised were a smeary sad area dal ran of the oath, he closed the hook and and. " I emit that portion of the oath, because I costae; it set biding ea say omiseience." (" No.") Well, thee, he said, " I omit those words." He eertaioly adenoid wheat the baron sold " I wait those words." for the moon which he este, that that wee a dation rafted to swear. If he Vie woad, he wished to kaew is what node the hos. patients proposed that they should wands newly sad &slimly whether it was the intention of the Woo to take the oath as Frowned y the act of parliament or not He (Sr F. Trustier) wee in the hands or the house, and was quite reedy to take say coarse which won fair and right. Mr. P. WOOD—I have commaoicand with the baron, and he says he has not the least hesitation to say that it may be taittru as a refusal to take them words. - 877iiiiTaii—thearaiprWend that eey boa. and learned friend, the Attorney-General, would hardly feel that there was any necessity for siring Baron Rothschild what he claiss—a locus penitential, because It is clear it would only end is a repiution of what he has already stated, and which mouses to a refusal. 1140. GREYsaid it statement of the kosourable member for s h e city of Oxford might be taken as a refusal oa Buou Enthmisdel's part, they might be called upon hereafter to knits a emit because he termed to take this oath. Irliestedee Ise Me besiege' e-teetr +telt fee ake-Otip Leaden. be Ibe rape of Dues Retbeilind, wee ghee pot, midst bettil elms& • Me MAW. wished, ta Mew _witetlter PHD weelll be wq elpeedott se ley the reseledeoe se be ealloileeilethe Imes es the table teaseelow, eat to We tbea primed with the Tete% se es to be la Um base et stembete as = , Ta ymel merain. The ATTORNISTAIEHEiIUs did 11111111 bit a. eltesld be able to lay the reeMellens is Ihe tahledhamanow, but M wield de es ea Mr. ANBTBY s atee gimi th il a i l li t the resolutions to be proems* sy the noble lost es Thunday woes set eatiaic tory to the frleade of Bares Rotheehltd, he (Mr. Loamy) maid being the gaged= *dee the eessidentioa el the Maw se Friday. The debate was *en adjourned 1W Thursday morning at 12 AWL Thelteate • Mink. sajoessed, at 20 ideates peat 4, till half-past The helm remand at half-peat six s'aisek. PETITIONS PRIMIENTED. PARLIAKEN [ART VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL. Oa the *ln of the day far the eeneldention of the lords' amendemaie me the above bill, Oebeel 121119181 emend that he had • Emden ea the pare will* had pregolense *this bill, sad he had set sea elelled Is =r us t Zia motion was Ns an imperious nib. of tobacco la Inked ; sad eertaialy, =Lost the views ef the majority ef Irish members, hs daubs mat be iodised to give way to the noble lard. Km O. A. HAMILTON, ionise observed that be was swine that his hon. sad gallant bind should give way to Se Male lord, OIL DUNNE pestles* hie modem Lied J. RUSSELL—IL think it wield be tar better, II Debra ambles say IMMO ea these amemimeate. I were to state gmestally tee view we take ad them Md el the bill m it sow stalida. The WOW is Well aware et the eat:malty of the ease wblk makes newsier ea the subject. That we *lax that weenies to Eagle* we have of registered denten 23 per met. tithe mole populatim, in Wales 82 per mat., mad in Beetlated 26 ; the proportion in Ireland is rather lase than 2 per mat. (Hear, hear.) Without entering into farther details, I think the home has sees • striking example of the pateity . of sleet-ire in Ireland, at the nee* Mayo eleetioe, where, la ems of the read moat pepteloes musties is the kieedem, lees dim MO votes were polled by both ma dames. (Hear, hoer.) What we proposed is the *blest of the number of *beton wee Asap the pment system al sodas, wed the teams es whisk it rated, into an occupation franchise. Now I think that gsutlsmen VIM demos this subject are apt to lose sight of the fact, that the franchise in Ragland is gene ray a 40a. freehold frassithe. It is very common to say that the menpation frameise i• England is • 601 franchise, and that, therefore, 81. in Inlaid is too tow, but the feet is, that in Ragland the franchise in mantise is chiefly a forty-shilliag franchise. (Ileac) We proposed 81. and the Lords say that it should be Ifs& According to the latest accounts the number of occupier. rated at 81. is 313,224, and of 151. occupiers 180,000. 14 however, we take away cos fi fth, which is reckoned the meal propo rtion, for doable ecoupwiems and tenements occu pied by females, these anaben will be-81. occupiers, 264,000, and 131. memion, 144.000. It therefore appears that the amendseest of the Lords strikes net no less than 139,000 out of 204.000 to wheat the house had proposed to give the Might of • , thus maids' the proportion of penny to the male potion *eying the franchise much less then his in ._ I promo' sew in mine degree to modify that greet redaction, by taking 121. instead of lit., es es„ almerding to our calnilatios, to give 174,000 eases WNW of 144,000, the career of the Lords' eeseonilm. Our original proposal would have given the Stmehite to 15 per cent. of the population, the Lords' aseerlement would give it to about 8 per cent., and my ri sme raped would give about 10 per amt. I think that if the right *voting were to be raised to • 161. rating, ce shove it, the quietism would immediately arise—whether there Mould nos be also some ether description of teaure fresaise--whedere, in short, the old system of 40t. free holds should not be restored. (Hear, hear.) I wish, If possible, to give such a number as will term a sufficient constituent body for the country, sad ea them grounds I shall propose that imaged of fil., white I thought • perfectly nameable motion, we meet the Lords by Mantis, 121., thereby almost dividing the difference. Bat there is another alteration made by the Lords, which I ma hardly call an amendment, but to which I snarls greet impacting*. The whole principle of the bill whether it takes an 81., • 121, or • 161. trembles, was that imetead at claims for registration sad their consequent son- Matisse the rats book should be, as it were • elf-acting register, and should place on the list all persons entitled M vote. I think the adoption of that plan would have mural this benefit, that without the iaterfereme of the landlord or may other poem yea wield have a register of voters wily made. end the ealy mention would occur at the rare period of an eked= (wises, of mune, the used heat and enema must be expected), instead of at the annual registrations as at present, while all vexatious and complicated cams" of Alec- Viol& would be got rid of. (Hear, hear.) I ALA thoreiste, propose to disagree altogether to the emendates% cf the Lords on that part of the bill, because they soma to me to be directly opposed to its priaciple. Them alteration Mk I shall sot propos, to insist, on some other et the bill which the Lords have altered, slWsgi I have not changed my opinion ea espreesed ea a homer' debate remedies them The Ant amendmeet is os a Tess- I lion which was mach diseased here, namely, whether the word' " owner Graham " should be inserted. I shall not raargee the point, but merely say that I am reedy to agree to the 'madman of the Lords. Another wed* which was also rich debated here was that of joust occupancy. There wua great difference amongst Irish members about it, and as it hag breams* out by the Lords, I certainly do not propose to reinsert it. The clause giving . the treads* to 61. holders for life or in fee is, I think, an important clause, and after the sales of small properties in Ireland may dive • considerable clam of free hold voters. That hat been altered by uniting the quelifi • cants to be beyond poor rates and county ass, but as that is in conformity with the practice in England, I shall net interfere with the alterations. florae words have been in serted preventive borough voters voting for a county, al though they may have a freehold right. I think them too stringent, but they are not of sufficient imnor tence„, in: my opinion, to justify disagreement. There have been • good many minor amendments, and the schedules have been altered to meet the alteration is the franchise. As the bill originally st',od, it wield came into operation on the Ist June, 1850, but as at messed invaded the registration would commence on the 9* September and be completed en the 13th March, 1861, while every future registration would commence on the Ist lama and remalaia force to the 13th November. Therefore, the first miner wasld last to the let December, 1850. 1 thick them te reasonable in order to give time to understand the MII, led therefore I worm to agree to these latter ameedments. The whir lord concluded by repines that the ram of 111. bussed of 151. should he inserted. Mr. ROEBUCK raid he understood that Baron Rothe child wished it to be takes that he had refused to pronounce eartain words, am that he had reseed to take the oath. (Hear. hear.) He shosld De proverad, at a proper time, to argue that he bad taken the wadi. (Hear, hear.) 11;. Album SIDNEY anteceded that the baron had taken the oaths required by law, and was to all intents sad purpose. a member of the Maw. Let them not stultify the choice of the Raton of Laßosa by rejecting the nisaber whom they bad twice returned. (Hear, Mar.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he rose raer•lT foe the pose of asking the house to come to some decision with re. meet to the order of their proceeding. If the home thought It to stoma he two boar, sad then meanie this debate, that mans might certainly be taken. Or, if the boo. and loaned member for Oxford, or the right hoc. mambas for Northaaptaa, oe say other hen. member, thought that the question was not in aft state to be &tidal, it would be a =lea he the hoses to consider for what period they it. (Loud cries of " Divide.") Perhaps the and learned member who might be comildered as representing Berea Retlesehild m that ottessiost would state whet was his wish, he the bea. mamba for the City of London ought net to ham say reason to vampish' that his ease had sot been fully Meld. Mr. P. WOOD said he umisestood that several gentle ma wished us address the brass oa this subject. That =he mem and so It was dairable that the quostiou be dimessed to the frame and amplest manner, the best way would reliably be to adjusts the debate to the earliest meals time —tIM etertmos at id: o'clock. Mr. DIM/ALI ihought it desirable that the debate should be adjourned till next day. (" No, no.") The eon. Miseatioa et the Irish Framable Bill bed been Read for that day, and it would be 'messiest to premed with the soup si&ratioa of the lords' assendinente that everting. (Load Wile of "Divide.") The ()FRAMER —I mast ark the noble lord (Ranall) dose he mew die edlearamsat M the debate ? Lord J. 11011111 U—Ia elemmumme et what has fallen from the hem nod honied member he Ogled, I will Rove that the debate be dll six Weiesk this day. Mr. WOOD it would be the wish of every am that they should peaseed w a dickies. (Hear, hear.) Mr. 0811011111 Maid to state my Reedy the mom why he did met 11111111111 i• Meer the house sa this mesetisa. (Hear, sad laughter.) He took a amnia-sew view if the matter, sad did set intend to be shied by the quibbles el Ywpew. se the medicate of the Pans Meister. The home W hew Mop/ Omagh a most diegesestal premed kg. If be had se kips dos that Muse, M had filth in the Aimee of Lougee ; and be mail tell the home that they were segoging la a Mika eat of which they could oely some with dieoppelmluseet mod disguise. (Hear.) Able a few woods lb= Lied J. RUSSELL, Mr. STANFORD eilmeatil the adjearanteat amid load and impaeleat wise of "delis." The house Res divided ea the onsedatat, whoa the *umbers were : rir. Id . OASKBLL said that the proposal of the noble lord was of the deepest importing*, awing that it would not only effect great alterations is the Irish 000stituencies, but would interfere with the rights sad privileges et • so-ordinate branch of the kg:stature. He wasted that as their rejection of the Lords' emendate,* would most probably load to the flljeCiloll of the bill, they would not be lightly disposed of by that house. It amid be time to discuss the tasathre of the franchise after they had tested the operation of this bill. It was easy to say that the abuses of representation would be great, bat than were °dig r dangers. He might be permitted to say that then were dangers of which we were far move likely to feel the effects—that there were systems of govern ment more 'twisting. and inseam. The system of govern mot in which there was • larger infneeon of demonacy than was compatible with the maintenance of the democracy was • more dangerous thing. The real question was, in what pro pontos' were the ratepayers of Ireland likely to form a suitable and Independent coastitueicy ; in what tiou were they likely to be independent of external infuses. so as to make it prudent in parliament to confer the fran chise. His firm belief was that the independence of the House of Peen was as dear to the people of Beglaad ws any inetitutiest er any liberty which they ended, for he believed that those who sought, whether, la tide hens, or out of it, to overawe or overbear the did- dens of that breath of the legislature, repossessed the feel tags of • very mall sad very iaelinifietiat fraction of the people. He believed that the madmen* in this bill were justified by the present state of Ireland, and th at they were demaaded by considered°. of public policy, and he trusted that the majority of this house would rather take counsel trots former prociedests, thaa act upon the bolder, though Ism illaCidAS *mad of these who called epee them to reject this bill. Mr. FRENCH did eel think the tendeumr of the bill woad be to extend the democratic 'learnt. The franchise wee maw proposed to be 121. Was it likely that a twat of 121., liable to be turned out at the will of his landlord, was =Luso be aa independent voter and expre ss ki s own ? He regretted to state that the proposal of the noble lord at the bead of the government did not Merida the dislike which he had to the measure. Disfraachisement wee net lesseaed by • proposal to take a 94,000 vinare. It was a diefraachisiag act, sad ao former go vernal's* or Individual had ever before proposed • measure of this kind. He could not, with regard to the interests and feel's,* of those by whom be was sent here, give his support to the bill. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said he hoped it would not be forgotten that this 16i. franchise, as proposed by the Hogue of Dada would erode a great distinction between the members *vise the fraaLse in the other pins of the Wisdom, end he hoped that the proposition of hie - hoo. friend near him would aoe be lost sight of, and that the house would eaaseint to •t 121. for Voiii; . asestlaait ll7 naiad it Lied J. HUBBELL thea reownseaded that Sir F. should withdraw his notice to give time fee farther ma n ties into presedests. Sir F. THISIGEft was very desirous to leave the matter oath* la the heads of Lord John Rates% and aignitled his willingaesr to withdraw kis notisa. Mr. hoped that this would act be allowed. it,. V. 8141 TH coateaded that air F. nuptial' motion asserted what was antra*. The bares had not refused to take the ea*, but had kissed the book, sad said, u 8o help sae OW whisk was very like actually taking the oath. He Thedger. hoped do bone would negative the 'settee of itte F. Mr H. IL INOLIS esaaplaised of Mr. V. thaitiee lan guage, ad further resaarked that the baron might have taken sa oath, but sot the oath maimed. Lord J. IiVeBIILL then sawed that the debate be ad. jaunted till Thassday, at twelve, whoa the A -fleas ral could briestfarward sash reselatisaa sa he sad Lord J. Hassell should Is the wan note agree saes. Mr. P. WOOD end Mr B. Haw. Ikea the motion should bs arganved. Mr. ROEBUCK did mg see the w of adjourning. All gag hog eters before the how. Mr. AIfST=Y 'risked te know tie nature of the reale those Formed to be iatrodeted. Atter a few words Cuss Mr. &maxi; — fictrtilo6llLYlTiaeiiiits — hW.sgesttl;irsit to state how the Indeed= was to he takes. Sir W. SOMIIRVILLK said. that by the law as It now stood, when the Wootton was oesplettd, the valuation must assumedly be formed upon the poor law valuation. Be quite admitted the faportanea et this question, and It should reedy' tie etesidera of the 'warmest. Aooordinu to this bill, the heathen would leo homed ea the poorisw valustioa. Mt. itoolllll esid thss .selther of the greet penis. fa the Mae sad a heaths OW the rights of Ireland, but thee THE =Milk WEDNESDAY STUNG, JULY 31; 1850. sy S ac = t lb. beide geoundef ihstion , o th n& to be eking to. Why had lli=leglas Write fa throe lege, sadden' ead meted " s wee beware tho Dulape* almei ofr's pirt glostestioa had I i eaggereed the 121. ameadnessit.terdj that{ - ;*o==otted differed from Lad Jolla Buss& en of • self- meths loghtrallohd . " ..tE.T . N inputted the governagat bat tee that the bpi had besa impaired. ILEMENTS said that every blab umber who bad =iseuned to .he-iet hour of tha 121. Mathis, la peso to the 161. /Id was also maims that thei In. few Ghia should be odeg ia sed the oalgfiefillhet MM 011 to es .tres sa member. Me idgeoden of the mealier hr Elm s Lyles us fiseaki 'albs haperfelet elthe of Ike Wiestkala seder We taw to behad. Now, be mall sat% ea lis own ko . Mat the Irish valeta- Moe were he ssemeosegest thee valeatioas. If M. kid mils that they te lewaeA =hit al o i :ea seowi ayates l t ot:- lisil r a l e ffigg isiall. weald . she a rakeleat UM he hake of 17 11111 I" CB.A .I I#O 2 II bI4 D also lm'. pra a relneteat vets is blur of du liable lara's proposithm, and wished it lobs andoestool that ha meant nth( hi lt... pgreasasat nt MULLY esid that whealso owelderodthat indwells $l. franchise the Dumber oiwellegoia Inked weak be UM ender the W. 127,400, gad wodog the 16d lethal at hil Ins* diEekaell la the .ashes tlat a ltd be ON W the two latter, ho thought that to do present do Mato of tho transitive in Inked. he was in duty head give his vote le hem of the 181. Mks. Mr. BRIGHT said a. maw, 1 , is of *the shoe the geweaseneot pupae& wi th the useilsa el the hide INl"lbikes was it absolutely lssew' to do so . a ttad the rejosessitalioa of Irelood *litany radii (aima) They feud eight 111111 1 / 1 0 if peeps Inks else. OithelkNea of Utah 'shady Ia this hem Or ID the esongsy bugle so math as the milk hod at du hoed of SW gegerameng. sad yet having Medway (as already ea vle 100 ) rehrutatathe whisiews. (Hear, boar.) it.. had ea illoserstien of the egaditiga of slabs Ng inland witida the last week. Now, the nebk Med. fled ha hod la this Mato, emu do to the Maw with a at the oemmeaosiment of the seethe; OW. he the Int time, he there lave brae ow icreizSas of the . Mee kind for throe „lens andens. whoa Oa amble hod had got en this Ws of the table that was abut to do something handsome la fulfilment of the whet be bad made oa the other side. He ia a swears by whisk 264,000 votes were atimitially to be to the owar dm of Ireland ; 264,1)39 was,'lnwever, wry huh more Mee tke real mamba. That would be the ut mo st if every mar pier were placed oa the register ; bat there are the easel of widow., sad many other seise 1n wheat the parties araupylas could not appose oa the register. The :umber would pro bably be brought down, speaking within the mark, mere thee 10, perhaps 20 par cont. Lord J. RUSSELL wee naderstood to say that that was not the tact. Mr. BRlGHT—Perhaps the settle lord may have made the enema, &Bowsaws; bat, ha this se it nay, a difference of ten or twenty thawed is of ao great importance to say argument. TM noble lord's propositioa was that 261.00) permits should be eafreaeldied in the counties of Ireland. Mr. WCULLACIII—That was fee the whole of Ireland. Mr. BRIGHT—I am sorry that I Should be supposed to have exaggerated the good which would have been effected by the bill. Take it which way yogi will, I thick the argu ment is the same. The noble lord defended the proposal of an 61. feasehise in this boom in a masur which to me was perfectly salishisteery. I objected, as did many other hon. atemben, to the bowleg an 81 fraathise for boroughs. But what was said ow these beaches ? I am not apt to be dc laded by statements made from the bench below; but It was said that as 81. fnathis• for the counties would he a capital thing ; and that, although the proposal of such a franchise for the boroughs might be a mistake, it would be avoided if the thing had to be done over again; yet we smut not grumble be. cause we did not get everything in one werion ; and as ex pectation was held. oat that by-and-by, when the suffrage game to be 'vended in England, there would be no diffi. catty in reducing the 81. borough franchise to 61., should it then be thought desirable to do so. Well, now, with all those statements, we felt somewhat satisfied that the noble lord at least meant to stand by sad to carry through palls meet what he had proposed. !tow, the, has he acted ? The noble lord, be it remembered, is at the h ead of the govern. meet, audit would not do for him to say that he has not voted as the Marquis of Lansdowne has in the other house. He must take upon himself the responsibility of what has been done by the cabinet ministers in the House of Lords. Although I have not the exact words before me, I belie,* I shall be supported by the recollection of hon. members, whoa I say that the waded of the government in the other house has not only been directly wearer, to its conduct in this horse, bat affords the greatest reason for believing that when the soble lord and his colleagues pro praed the 81. franchise in this house, it wu not tatndied that that franchise should be paned, but that it should be raised to some other amount. But now what is it that the house of Lade have due ? They have cut down the' 64,000 electors to something like 140.000, imitating the government of Paris in the set of reducing by one-halt the franchise of the people of Fresno. (Hess, hear.) The noble lord will not accept a ISL franchise, but he prop.. • half way house between 81 aad 161., giving to the other house an advantage in the division, he proposes 121, which will loan, if I under stead him rightly, about 170,000 demean. The noble lord himself proposes to sweep away one-third of the numbers he advocated a few masthead*. Now. I want to call the attention of the house to the dividOse by which this 81. franchise was passed. la the tommittai of this house there were 213 votes fur the 81. franchise and 144 for the 161. franchise ; the majority 69 ia favour of the first. Oa the third tea 'ins then were 254 votes for the bill sad 166 against it ; the majority being 68. Now, what was the majority in the other house ? There were 60 votes spina and 72 for the 161 fran chise ; so that it was carried there by a ataj wit, of 22. votes. If you add together the majorities of both houses of parlia ment, and if you also add the minorities in both, you will find that there was, on the whole, a majo rity of 47 vows in favour of the lower Multi**. (Lsughter.) I know very well that that is a kind of arith metie which is sot generally practised I. the House of Commons. (Hoar, Mar.) I am not asking the home, there fore, to adopt it; I am only stating to them • fact; and I may state further, that a bill which paved this bran by a majority of 264 votes against 186, has been neutralism' and almost destroyed in the other house by a vote of /9 against 50. (Hear, hear.) I have no doubt that there are penal, who believe that one vote in the other house of parliament is worth three votes in this house ; but on a question of the oaf- raga and of popular rights, I am disposed to think that' if the constitution, taking the word in the sense in which it is used by the noble lord, is to give any particular weight to either bane of pariiiunent, this house ought to be tong drred of ; more importance than the Hoare of Lords. We have had a question to day, which affords another specimen of the dead lock into which the two houses of par liament are working themselves. Year after year the noble lord has brought forward • measure to emancipate, as it is , ermed, a certain class of persons in this country ; and year after year the measure has been pawed in this house. But when it goes to the House of L irds this measure is scarcely discussed : there not only the House of Commons but the ministry is treated with contempt, and the hill is kicked out as a thief/ too ridiculous for calm oonsideration. Perhaps the noble lord proceeds on the principle of ripening the pear—as it was formerly termed—in thus bombarding the House of Lords with good measures ; out the result is, that he allows every good measure to be pared down until it will pass through the minute guage which suits the other house. (Cheers.) Well, sow, how long is this to go on i It is quite clear that the noble lord's constitution wilt not work. It does not work even now to his own satisfaction. It does not work even to keep himself in alai ; for as the two houses are going on, and, as the government is situated between them it Is quite clear that his government cannot last long. What does the noble lord intend to do? It is rumoured that be intends to add to the detail eratio element in the House of Commons. Well, but if that element is now too much for the House of Lords, how can henpect to get on more comfortably when he shell 114.0 aided 60 more members, who will vote mina him wbes he dose not go far enough in proposing measures of reform ? (Hear, hear.) The abet of any extension of the democratic element is this house will be to increase die cord and difficulty between the two houses, or the oohs lord's comtitution must be extingaithed, because the hods will have to saseemb. TM owes which is = now is one that is both hassilistlas to the hones and five to the noble lord's government Nearly even' doe he sends a assesureap to the Home of Lords it is Mooted ; wife this manner difficulties arise between the two houeelult= went and the discerner of thou/big lord's 'overslaugh elated. Whatever may be his majorities in chi' hems blend. tan is becoming mare and snore humiliating ; and I soneess that I do regret sou deeply that, attar all the union shish the noble lord hes performed la years past, by write' mea asures which, If they have not gone so fir as I could have wished, have perhaps, gone as far as circumstances would pgrailt—l do regret that he should not be able to carry out the principles which he has professed. With regard to this bill, I believe the greatest and safest policy towards Ireland is the most generous policy. (Cheers.) You have tried the other policy for cen turies, and there is not a spectacle In the world so Mutilating to • government as the spectacle of Ireland is to oar own. (Hear, hear.) You have ailed to govern through the l andlordsi of Ireland, through what you call the territorial system. Your govern ment has lamentsbly failed ; it has made that Island a seen. of anarchy. Year proprietors are for the most part ruined ; your people have been starved off, and have emigrated by hundreds of thosseada. I learn (soma paper which has been road before the Statistical Society of Dahlia ; that the writer states his belief that at the next anew the population of Ireland will not be found greater than it was in 1831. If It be to this that your system has brought Iceland, I ask you whether it be not time to change? (Hear, beer.) Irishmen are like other men ; they may be controlled, sad guided, and governed by kindness, geuerosity, and Judos. (Cheers.) Do you still wish that the representatins of Ireland should be the reprebentatives of Its territorial proprietors only, and are you staid to have in your hones one hundred path/meet who represent the great mama of the occupying tenantry? If you had a bun. deed representatives of this kind, even if we did not legislate in all thing. as they might desire, still they would feel that their solo* was heard in the Impe rial pall/se's•,* and oomparhs dui:position with that of Lanaiskire, Yorkshire, and Devonshire, they would fool that their countrj men wen treated by the Imperial legislature with the same Justice se die great mass of the population of England and &Viand. I repeat, m, waviollos, that the true policy for Ireland Is • llherhi and generous policy ; sad let me add, that If pm wish a Withdraw themes trom the thfloeutet* ITTORNOII,IIIIIIII. mosodoe lbw Lod J. RUSSELL oloold proposo, Islas obo = ostry t r ij o AMOS' M eb. wird &boo moo osor swaths tho nodes •ofas E. . t klm wa, d m m aff eLoo hlaill :S. or bil ored t at= r• orol ;It m ore. 111. mow Mr sigma l .l i • mom mob solforl Ili Ad* mot so ossooler T 1 In so try the logiourd siniaans a wfirt miss la 1%. osigloo of roosird 4 v. sod seafram; refenvd to la Won 11 4 4144. pu es od Ws. 1/11.—C s *" *mos ,1 • ;71 tlros ozoloioi , bet gam woo *oaf al WW I " i Yo Morbid lbw r te'.. , . me to do o WOOD — TM mato% Om I. • t t F. TIM 10E/ Mated dig be Ira web* to Ida'. Colossi TIORNEY.ORMSRAL—I lan it that tbis ow. draw Ids maw. or to snow it Or be upend withoot o erased C hi Mr. CLI i sistot,t's 4 filet tk! words " wabi" w .11 th. di tt s '—a-- a.. atsa Ilsoniedwat MINI -wok anonbianin Awr Anoka'',* ~.~ '; 00 1211te et "lib math than be, yea should = 43 1 : t u x ia them Lard J. _ rselleet z r ies euy sour to detain the h t iaestterz es th: tu g doe. Oaf saembee it Mudge. I cunt altogether avoid. (Nen. hen) The war. goodness mot esidnieg \WWI to 'the diminish et the MilL(hear, hear) — hair itt fit Irby dews preposition whisk he thinks l etil d ibs tr atacthi t s e gaithaumemenelea the " esta , blishmea ressin isfindsie ....taia c t mul d ot se t vi i ii t sa l :S: h_lo_v ie f i r ar itt e ad hayies s"a te tatin siows. ". . thing dilfust hem that whisk I had Y Meth* ad to rad la some degree te the sap ' resjOy7inisma of the able been of parlisimsith Now, I cousin th at with se. airs this g o estles. it is notlag to consider the awe dpetheiment tesiather, and to soy that a majority of I S is eme Imam is itaised hy tomajority of 22 la the ead, ead that yea ought adopt the epistles Whisk has been seadioned by a majority of the two houses. (Neu hear.) It la evident that if the two knees Mon teed together , fa one amemily that would be the ewer se lug as there on two hats if parliament, we salt risal with seeseilmeals whisk NW dews to us kom tliselber hum maths null Of the Imildom if that bum. New. the heth.fresiksie he Mweleiter, 'Use this te be the ease, related. sergimillthhabelith. that witli regard to may imossere of Slabbed I shwa Alden at the brgianing of session that a eseleia h a mermare of the gate urament—that, npyssiag a lmaeblse of Si. to he pro posed, we should detain at ogee that N. h to be the heath* for Ireland—that we will Ihtsa to se mimed of a sung., /tsar sus dissamise Oa the rahhet. bet that our datom must prevail. Why, sir, I say at oase that there would be as end of the be of the coned- Intim of this imeatry. (Haar, hear.) It may be desire li. that the oonetkuion should come to an end, but we eel& set to deceive ourselves with regard to the effect et the preyesal of the hoe. member for Manthester. New ht es seppeeethe ken. gentleman to have his will wish egged to the reform of the proud house of parliament— to carry what is, I believe, ether household suf frage, but what, in het, moss needy approaches adweal suffrage—it iron far beyond what was understood by " household suffrage ' in form days. Let us suppose that he has an assembly elected under that law; that the minder who represent" the majority in that assembly says at the begianthe of the session, " Here is a great popular immeure whisk I punt to you; that measure must be car ded in its intwrity . ; from that measure you must not depart, k most be =fried ; ' and suppose that according to the exist fag state of things, the House of Lords were not to modify Mad measure, but te nisei it altogether, in such a ease the bee. goatleman mud have something in reserve, he must have um, resource, and it is quite evident that what he means is that the will of this popular assembly Is to prevail, and that there is to be no distance), no modification, 'no tempering of various views, so elaborate sad loused discussion, no re ference to history, no vegan to precedent, which might in any degree modify or alter the will of this imaginary mi ahter—(hear, her)—who is to come to this boase, perhaps repreenting a large manufacturing town, and wry, "Such is my will, such is the will of this popular assembly, and ad a word is to be heard in opposition to it." (Hear, hear.) Why, I say it is quite plain, without discoosiug the merits of our constitution, or any other at this moment, that what the hon. gentleman redly proposes is that there should be nee absolute democratic assembly, which shall have co barrier to Its will, which shall meet with no opposition to its decrees, and to which all the es tates and constituted bodies of this country are to bow. (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, it may be that such a change is desirable. but all I an say is, that I am not one of the persons who desire it—(chars)—all I an say is, that I thick, with all its evils, with the very long delays which occur, with the frequent rejection of meager= which, after some years, every one admits to be useful, and with the many impediments which there sec to the legislation of this country—l think that, with all them evils, the sum and sub stance of the constitution is so good, its institutions are so valuable, and its fruits so precious as com pared with those which we find, either in ancient or modern history, to have bean produced under other forms of government—l wiU not say without exception, but with one or two exceptions, amongst the constitutions devised by the wisdom of man—that, for my own part, I am not willing to change the present constitution of this country for any which tee hon. gentleman may desire. (Cheers.) Now, sir, it has happened to me—l am obliged to speak of myself—to carry through this house, and through parliament, measures of change which, though I thought they were also measures of improvement, met in the first instance with great apposition and powerful resistance: I weeder that the constitution may from time to time be improved; that laws may be changed much to the advantage of the people of this country ; bet I have always acted under the 'auditions ',bleb I saw were imposed upon me by the state of the government of this country—(hear, bear)—by a con siltation which I did not frame, but under which I was born, and which I have no wish to overturn. ( - 'Hear," and cheers.) I proposed a great many years ago a change of a mat important character in the construction of this house. I was not dispirited by the reverses which I met, not oaly by being overthrown In repeated divisions, but by being opposed by the splendid sad almost overpowering eloquence of Mr. Cowling. I went on in my curs*, and after 10 years' diseuision and deliberation I had the ea:is - action of seeing effected a great reform in the representation. (Hear, hear) I did not in that cue say at once " I discard all re speet for the constitution." Oa another occasion I proposed to repeal the test sod corporation acts. I was successful the very first time I proposed a bill for that purpose. Bat it was proposed to me, on the ground that my sumess would otherwise probably not extend further than this house, to consent to a compromise, and to accept a do. aeration as a ribstitute for what I thought de grading and unjust conditions. (Hear.) I persuaded thee, whom I then considered my clients, the protestant dissenters, with whom I had frequent conferences on the subject, that the wisest course would be to agree to the compromise, and the bill was in consequence carried, through the assistance of the government of the day. Again, when I proposed a commutation of titles, by a similar compromise the object was secured. Sir, lam sorry to enter into these masters; I am giving them as samples in order to show that great good may be effected, not by takirg the course which the hon. gentleman proposes, say ing at once, " Here is a measure, I throw it on the table; don't change a word or a syllable of it, I will have this measure, or run the risk of a collision with the two houses of parliament, rather than have it altered in the least ;" but, by taking a totally opposite course, by submit- I tiag any vanity or pride which I might have with respect to a measure which I had proposed to the counsel of others, by altering what I had proposed—it may be some times for the worse and sometimes for the better—and en deavouring to attain the object by commie'se and consul tation. (Cheers.) Sir, th e hon. gentleman (Mr. Bright) has alluded to terms, hich he certainly has not forgotten, in which, on a former union, I alluded to himself and to others whe had addressed the house with regard to the working of our institutions, when I allowed the phrase to escape me that he and others took a narrow-minded view of certain subjects. Why, sir, I was not then speaking of the general views which they took. The question had reference to the aristocracy of this country, and the hon. gentleman seemed to me on that occasion, as he had done on many others, to represent the aristocracy of this country as a clan apart—as a sort of great council of Venice—which was entirely a parave from the great body of the people, and did not admit of that admixture or receive that strength which was to be derived from being continually recruited from the great body of the people. I said 1 thought that was a narrow-minded view of the subject. Mr. BRIGHT would save the noble lord the trouble of proceeding. On the occasion referred to, the discussion was on the motion of Mr. Hume with regard to parliamentary reform, and what was referred to was the tact of the re presentation of Manchester being balanced by that of many small places. Lard J. RUSSELL—The matter is one of recollection, and I cannot speak positively. I certainly do remember that on that occasion families were referred to whose ances tors not a hundred yeses ago were among the humblest and poorest subjects of the sovereign of this country, but who, by dint of talent or learning, whether displayed in the pro fission of the law, in the church, or In the army or navy, had won their way to the highest honours of the peerage, and formed as proud a part of the aristocracy of this country as many of those who could claim a long descent. (Hear, hear.) It was, I think, on that subject that I was speaking. I may have entirely mistaken the hon. gentleman, and, if so, I am truly sorry that 1 applied to him Bub a phrase. But I do think that he has still a tendency always to represent the aristocracy as something distinct and separate—(cheers)—and not only do I hold that that is a distinction unfounded in feet, contrary to all that we see, both in the history of the past age, and if we choose to saaadae it, is the list of the peers of England, bat I also nand that a belief in such a distinction would have a mod misehiavous effect, and that, instead of that %midi of dense is this country which induces the aristeeney of this matey N esaridar their fate and welfare bound up with the fate and welfare of the people, and in duce, the people tie consider the aristocracy as bound to defend their rights sod privileges, deem would be estab lished in this country that war of •ffiffereat dames and ranks which could not but lead to the subversioa, not say of the constitution, but of the @Meting state of society. (Hear, hear.) It was in that rand that I intended to um the expromies referred to, and If it appeared applicable to other nutters I beg to withraw that applicati3n. But I must repeat that I think he is quits in error in sup posing that the aristocracy of this catuttry consider them selves so separate tad divided as he repressats them to be. On the contrary, I believe they consider their strength, their permanence, their very exhtence, to depsad on their continually receiving additions from those who, by the highest qualities of mind, have eats= themselves to be their equals in the sight of every man, and therefore deserve to be their equals in the outward treppitte of rank. The hon. gentleman is not satisfied with this bill, and he wishes for the 81. franchise. He knows that the 81. was on what I considered sufficient grounds, and I i that it was an through parliament. (Hear) An hon. eentlemen has expressed a wish that we had brought on this question boron. I have already stated that the Earl of Beuboroogh, when first he went to Ireland, framed this very measure, but that the years of (amine which fol lowed obliged us to direct our attention to what would meet the appalling misery which hung over Ireland, and we were Induced to postpone a masers of political franchise in order to save life and preserve the people. (Hear.) 1 take DO Wile N m sell for the delay. I think we were right in all Wsllag on the consideration of the political hossithe under such circumstances. la the pre -I,ssat you we have brought this measure forward sad sent it to the other house of parliament, which has made lallanges le the hill *atoll I cannot say are changes for the 7!1 4140101.100101111111111MINP 0 ' iambi 4.!" better. Bat Ido , eriried as I now pr.h. h f, addition 01 170,080 tot he constituent body of Ireland a great political good, worthy of effecing. At toth I will eater into no engagement, either oi!lt hoft7, - "• , eMa baron *bamboo*. I say, " Here prachte".,„_, *se / wish you to carey." If we fend the peepte of / te r,' bey. thee a ftemebies which they ask for so farther ehatese. lf, eht think salb he cia ti e, I ,W" C he t' we th ink the frehabiee ought to be Itirt tr ,"* , titer eitended, I sh ou ld b old that there thing in our giving wiriest to this bir1 ts weld permit we from proposing such further eater hatch, ,eir, is the spirit in which I propose this fti., Such le the spirit in sr. ich I proposed getter meam • f dim to time to this how., whether holding offi ce ee - e ; 41111111. I have done so with a view to irepe.ve the , oat time ear country, to alter laws which I thguiru deb, frphhethus, to give to the people a gree:er Cerra of dam sad bappinear and at the um. time I hive Thuth4—and I mad not scoompeny that tepees ig h any feeling of shame —l hays endaavoare Ito c :n t h," om egas a d d improvements with the mum:it, Lo ud Omen.) cometry. and with the puma:team of our io....itu! lire ( KTULLACIII said it wee not hie intention taro the bones at any leegth , hut eion,:y t o self he all two prepos ition which had teen plac i d them. The Ilea. gentlemen who had spoken g m debar* (Mr. Gerken) sad his friend, is fished to rata% t as it had osala down from the Rouse of bird., la d the. lord at the bead of the government hail adopt a 121. fraushiso. To the first propmitteh he not want, because as the bill originally left the house i! = el l as adequate redress fur a k now* sod grievance; and if they were right in the de, at whisk they had then arrived, by trigs mi,. he could not see that there was any reason yt pe e e , print pie was, that emariehing like vgaality rho from the principle of the bill. 1 1 Kim* the rest of the empire. It was then c f , h t eh ,lo tint ai g d i e v P e u n t t i h n e ig people of Ireland el comp are d wart the fee higher than an 81. rating would estabiish any!hilg ley equality. The noble lord, on the p reseet occasion, deny that the consequence of accepting a 12/, rya, anima a great premiere y rise on toe other hide of the CI might constitute a permanent settlement. To settlement he fee one could not wee. (Heir, Asir rehould decline tc vote for either of the pr,positioni the house. Mr. M. O'CONNELL said that if he anus vf the 12/., as he intended to do, he wished the to understand that he still looked forward to et. when the people of frelaxd should obtain a toll tad tension of the franchise. The proposition of toe te,t had contained one principle of great value —tamely, registration without solicitaioe, and he trovetl tt principle would net be deserted. Mr. SHELL *Mel his bun. friend the member dalk (Mr. lifi'Cullagh) had argued the: case as if in the power of the noble lore at the of the government by souse gentle v i o l et induce the House of Lords to accept the bi:l to tta form. He (ILr. Shell) believed the; to be o and be thought that ender the eiverostances the cc) without any sacrifice of honour, had need curer:, deavouring to effect such a compromise es mutt f: son set a question fraught wi.it disturbance at teal. He did not despair that the lords might be int.ticed o their steps when they coesidered the injustire oict, effected by their amendments. What oeuid be more heroes than this—that they had omitted the se ii• sour 2 for counties and retained it in boroughs and ethic. With respect to the operation of the freed thought the 151. rating would go a gr at way I annihilating the household independent eons the counties. The house rated in this ctuntry would not be rated in Ireland at CO:. ; and toe roc , would be almost entirely lsn,c-copos deft nay The amendeeentsof the Lod .1, he believtd.woui I iurn meats fur the ballot, an incentive to abitatiin, .1.1 a to those who wets sire* too prune to nte:ar. justice could be obtained from parleemee., ii, aai Lords against putting torchee in the bends .if were anxious to set the detour; on life. lie d their lordships coming to their !Anita. Trie tin concluded with a cauril philippic ex La : Stet Mr. DISRAELI could not enders:and why, Eye: put of the legislature had performed its : omit members should express surprise and task of hoe was as yet no oollifion, en I eh re was r.f.s•: nary for promoting a rierect underranning hetet an houses. Adverting to the L oda' anvniccu R. he 'Mel; justified them. The Lords Lad dune cu),, sumptuously, for scarcely had the brit h, ea ae: and before it could be weal explained t . ci. th , who bad charge of it in their house hid it in the back, •' and had conceded tee !rar.c2t• it an open question for the Lords to tied 'e and a 154 franchise. The mcond clause was o.e of by a great maw of members in the C..rc he tr . ; nearly struck out before it was a•.-rit , weight, to the Lords. A..d es to the , rev. r. of registration, that was surely as topes p .e.t Lt. any that ever came before were commences under which to talk f et,... c described this bill as • la:vicious erlort but contended that the Lords' amend:LW s ,s : ), no hostile spirit to the electoral boxy m 1re.... eluded by ennounring that he should introduced by the House of Lords. Mr. REYNOLDS threatened to inilict an ear: rible vengeance on Lord John Russell if Le di i n better for Ireland, and rignified that he sh.u.l • compromise. Sir G. OBEY defended the conduct of the Lansdowne, who Lad origivally advocated the but bad taken a division on the 121. cue, in the ho; by emoting the success of the bill. The house then divided oa the motion that ' part of the question. For the motion Against it The clause was then agreed to, the words inserted. Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that tte 20th clauses, called the seltregistration chum. the Lards had struck out, be re-inserted. The house instnectiately divided. For the motion Against it The amendment was accordingly daigreed s. The remaining amendments were then rca agreed to. ALTERATION OF THE NEW The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEi.4I . ciI. would take that cpportuaity of stating, .0 h pretty full, that he hope 1 they woul•I be : i meet in the new house at 12 o'clock n.v. S. ation had been made in the roof, with the hearing; and he wished them to roe.l th.re %gazn to try how it answered. (Hear. hear. BARON ROTHSCHILD. Mr. GOULBURN asked it it was Lot e t` . house should understand on what pricii:Ar the elusion affecting Ilaron Rultschild wou:1 c n r ..c. L,rd J. RUSSELL said it was his ir.eitt:.l7 . the evening of Thursday, what it was ie meat would propose; and he should house would agree to it, to take the question at she 1 . 2 o'clock sitting on MEDICAL CIIARI riEs (lI:ELAN Mr. STAFFORD said perhaps tee for Ireland would be prepared to stx• course he intended to adept with rept. Charities (Ireland) BdL the g •vt ts• nut. d tte :rt.:n.)llo c tit rol L'ett :SIT wtst. surTLY. The report of the committee oa supp:y wet brou;e...i! and received. QUEEN'S MESSAGE.-111ARLDOIZOUGH The report upon the Q teen's m msg., r• Wive tot:e settlement of Marlbovueh- house upon the Pri• ce of Walis was brought up and diseu.sel for some time. and a divieon called upon a motion made by Mr. Resole for negatirina report. The motion was netatived by a mei. rity of the numbs?' being SI to 39. The report wits then tercel to. and a bill ordered to be brought in. MAINTENANCE OF CONVICTS IN IRELAND. Col. DUNNE wished to call the attention se the helve to the tact that he had promised the other nig ht , when the es timates of law and justice were brought be fore the house, he would have something to say an regard:l Ireland, lie should now say that Ireland was not fairly treated Mt the allowance glanced from the consolidated fund for the support and maintenance of convicts and persons imprisoned, as I also to detray the eat of prosecutions in that country. ' He would not detain the bourn at that late hour with details of prosecutions, tut they had lightened the 1 val burthens of Englaad i W,t IXII , while is Ireland they had in. them by nearly 2,000i1. lie complained also ot number of troops qua .oth rtered in Ireland. and charged op 'd whet was celled the Irish establishmect. while their teas object and destination was to garrison the colznits. 1: should also be recollected that 4,000,000 f. war „t ea se; &n -eurally from leased in absentee rents, and let with ad these drains Ireland might prosper, it all.irred freely to develap the natural resources in the cultiv ition of tohiee'. end other productive erecles which had Men eheelthil I.y the Racal regulations of England. He should ceitainly ca . .. the attention of the house next year to the state of the esuuusr cial relatiens between the two countries. The CHANCELLOR of the EYCIIELIVErs said tts; ai the hon. and pliant member intended to tans w the d i -els Men next year, he would not follow him through all t o details. One point he would however allude to. and that was that while in England the charge on tee consosid red hand tearer was 374 0001. for police, while to Ittleci daring the same time it was 591,0001 for that rot. m. The repovt wiethee brought upend aimed to. EQUIVALENT COMPANY RILL. This bill was reed a third time and wawa. C U hITOMIP ACTS. The report of the committee on the Custom" brought up and &anvil to. MUNICIPAL CORPORATION (IRRLANO I On the order of the day for the MCOII4 reitilluile 0 1 feu i..• Mr. REYNOLDS suggested that the stage shoals! he Nat. posed. (" tia on.") lye should move the aij the house. Ile complained that the Wall enieh affected the municipal inforeste of Dublin hid toe, pared without any consultation with the 100..1 suth.•:it.ss of that city. The house divided. For the adjournment 4 Ageinst it Mr. I.IIITCILL4 4114 Id AQLIOI4III supported the cOal readies of the bill. S.r W. SOMEIRVILLE said that the object of t.e was to carry out a compromise which hail been eetetel into with much difficulty, by which the igune.pal lee o: Ireland was assimilated to that of England es to tho ment of taxes to qualify burgesses to vote. After same conversation, the bill was read a second time, t h e • t o • ii ,. • jell Rood feei, 4 er e ecikt 4 4 NZ to he. ktoke io . (Rea e 7 l are a h ea l Of oat at aeetitb Citf etta i , of f ies. ee eat iota wi t h tToq Ay of ratotiZZ 0 4 to d e. 'hat 1 1 4 . 4 helo t s hit i k the on t h e t 4 I the e 0 em 1 , he oi, v 4 use tt L sckno - Z. I deci.i 9es we. 10074 nooleti ke d ehowd like • notoio g th a, 01.4 n Ita:ta e Chaa te i: fa i k h tear.) R e ;tams trh.te V3tr the tlsss the Ld fa:r ex. trrb.e 1 7. that of ttr. that r fr,r 1 ;t . .0 the ctad • •.; !00 OCT. et . kr a rit e t. firer ) r..rree Iklly to :t lOrk or fl24t4f ) kach,e, reLY : , Weis Mr"... • est try a: : arra. .1 a !.ar.,, e • 00 ca wara I'4l ' 114 • ' , ll. EC s:at . T. • - e.y, 14,c. I:.tre ,r. len :Li , ter) he 0110, 1 :re. h.rct 7 - 's. ri i.e. jeer-, weea a :-.. :sapproeci r„ oLd Tt Ty 4 a des.:- ' ro..r.:arr reuistoa as , e there car- at :hen r4•1:1V. r cy, 11, z:z. .t.y et i .e.r.•.;:e 1I r ..‘ .f :.• ope .• ' 1. • • :• 7. 1:i .er...t 17 • cerr -AZ e h etee i rc: :r die :ci '"` :70P'