The Press. — London, England, 1857-05-16 00:00:00

472 Vrotttbings in ariianicnt. HOUSE OF LORDS—MoNDAY. The Marquis of BREADALBANE informed the house of her Majesty's gracious reply to their lordships' loyal Address. SALE OF PASONS AND LICENTIOUS PUBLICATIONS. Lord CAMPBELL callad the attention of the Lord Chancellor to the necessity of further regulations for the sale of poisons. lie also wished to mention the diffusion of another poison, far more fatal than strychnine or prussic acid,—he meant those cheap licentious publications with which the town was flooded. He thought it was the duty of the Govern ment to take immediate steps to suppress this grow ing evil. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that the legislative enactments already existing were quite sufficient to put these nuisances down. With regard to the sale of poisons, the subject was receiving the attention of the Government. CIVIL SERVP7E SUPERANNUATION& A number of petitions having been presented from civil servants of the Crown of various departments, complaining of the present system of superannua tion, Earl GRANVILLE, in reply to the Marquis of Clanricarde, recognised the importance of the sub ject, and said that the report of their lordships' committee on that subject would be presented within a week, when the Government would consider the question. TESTAMENTARY JURISDICTION AND THE LAW OF DIVORCE. The LORD CHANCELLOR laid on the table the Tes tamentary and Divorce Bills, which were substan tially the same as those proposed last session ; and in reply to Lord Campbell, who said that if the Testamentary Bill were identical with that proposed last session he should oppose it, stated that the new Court of Probate would be entirely separated from the Court of Chancery and Chancery judges. The bills were then read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time that day week. HOUSE OF COMMONS—MoNDAY. NEWFOUNDLAND Mr. LABOUCHERE, in answer to Sir J. Pakington, gave a brief account of what had been recently done by the Governments of England and France in re ference to the Newfoundland fisheries. In regard to the future : Her Majesty's Government would have their attention constantly directed to the matter, and would take advan- tage °revery opening which presented a chance of bringing these embarrassing questions to a settlement, but he never would be a party to compromising any rights possessed by the colony without the full assent and approbation of the community itself. It was the intention of the Govern ment to lay papers on the table which would show more iu detail the course which these transactions had taken. POOR-LAW BOARDS. Mr. BOUVERIE, in reply to Mr. Wise, said it was not the intention of the Government to introduce any measure relative to the settlement and removal of the poor during the present session ; and with reference to the appointment of a committee to in quire into the practical operation of the poor laws, he should like to hear on what grounds such a com mittee was recommended before lie expressed an opinion. PLACES OF ENTERTAINMENT. Sir G. GREY, in answer to Mr. Brady, said it was not his intention to introduce any measure for the better regulation of places of public entertainment which are open after twelve o'clock at night. FINANCE ACCOUNTS. Mr. WIISON, in reply to Sir H. Willoughby, said the finance accounts ending 31st of March, 1857, ought by law to be presented by the 30th of June, and he believed they would be presented before that date. There were, however, several accounts which could be produced earlier if the hon. baronet or any other member desired to have them. CHURCH RATES. Sir J. TRE!.AWNY asked whether the Government had any intention of bringing in a measure for the abolition of church rates this session ? Lord PALMERSTON :-- I can only repeat now the statement which I made on this subject on a former occasion, and that is, that her Majesty's Government have this matter under their con sideration, and that we are not without hope of being able in the present session to introduce a measure which may satisfy all the parties concerned. I cannot, however, at present give a definitive answer on the subject. Sir J. TRELAWNY said that unless he could get a more satisfactory and definite answer from the noble lord it would be his duty to bring the subject before the house in the course of the next month. SAVINGS lIANK. The house having resolved itself into a committee on savings banks, The CHANCELLOR of the ExcHEQuEli, in moving a esolution, " that it is expedient to amend the laws relating to savings-banks, and to provide for the THE PRESS. establishment of savings-banks with the security of the Government," stated the principal points of dif ference between the bill which he meant to found upon the resolution and the bill of last session. He proposed, lie said, by the present bill that the Go vernment should assume the entire responsibility for the moneys of the depositors in the banks, and this obligation rendered it necessary that ample securities should be taken against fraud, such as giving power to the commissioners to make general regulations with respect to the duties of and the amount of se• curity to be required from, as well as power of dis missal of, the officers. He was ready to remove any unnecessary restrictions, but he trusted that the house would support him in guarding the public interests. If the local authorities, the trustees and managers of savings -banks, opposed these necessary securities, there would be only one course, namely, to abandon the bill, and to leave the system as it was. He intended likewise to introduce a clause into the bill prohibiting any private individual or cumpany from establishing a bank under the title of a " savings-bank." Sir H. WILLOUGHBY complained that the Govern ment did not undertake to consolidate as well as amend the law of savings -banks. He objected strongly to the iilegal use of savings-banks' stock for financial operations by the Chancellor of the Exche quer, while at present a deficiency of five millions and a quarter bad been created. He maintained that the law gave the Chancellor of the Exchequer no right to touch one farthing of this money. Finally, he thought the whole question should be referred to a select committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed that the only condition which the Government would insist upon was to be satisfied of the solvency of the banks, and he would put the terms in as distinct a form as he could in the bill. To refer the bill to a select committee, he said, would be to shelve it for the session. The objection urged by Sir H. Willoughby to the power exercised by the Government of converting the stock of savings banks was not a valid one : Exchequer Bills (said the right lion. baronet) are just as much Government debt as the Three per Cent. Consols. They have become part of the permanent debt of the country ; and, as far as I can see, no valid objection can be raised to the conversion of that portion of the unfunded debt in the bands of the Savings-banks Commissioners in the form of Exchequer Bills iato Three per Cent Consols. If the house think tit to impose any restrictions which do not now exist, they must remember that they will deprive the executive Government of the power of sustaining on certain occasions the value of the Government securities and of preventing depressions injurious to the public. The resolution was then agreed to. TRANSPORTATION BILL. Sir G. GREY, in moving the second reading of the Transportation and Penal Servitude Bill, explained its main provisions. It proposed, he said, to abolish the sentence of transportation, and to substitute that of penal servitude for a more extended period, so that convicts might be sent to any colony willing to receive and which possessed means of employing them. He anticipated the objection that it some convicts sentenced to penal servitude were selected to be sent abroad while others were retained at home, it would produce uncertainty in the nature of the punishment, observing that uncertainty had entered quite as much into the former system of transporta tion. The hill would not alter the power of granting tickets of leave, as a general rule. Mr. BENTINCK believed that convict labour, which was now wasted, might, by means of penal settle ments near home, be so applied as to pay the ex penses of the convicts, with great advantage to them as well as to the country, by their employment upon harbours of refuge and other public works. He moved that the bill be read a second time that day six months. This amendment was left unseconded, when Mr. ROEBUCK remarked that the great cause of crime in this country was the difficulty of finding employment, which tainted labour could never find, so that when a man ceased to be a convict he was driven back to crime. There was, in his opinion, but one remedy,—that of transporting all who were sentenced to transportation for life to some now un inhabited spot, after qualifying the convict by pre vious probaticn to become a colonist. Sir. J. PAKINOTON observed that the subject was full of difficulties, but the measure of the Govern. ment, which, as far as possible, met conflicting views, had his approbation ; his only objection to it was the element of uncertainty it imported into the sentences, so that the public would not know what the sentence passed really meant. The Govern ment, he added, should address itself to an anxious consideration of the question what was to be done with the convicts when released, in order that the change might be as innocuous as possible, and he thought the check of a well-regulated ticket-of-leave system would in this view be beneficial, by keep. ing alive the element of hope. Mr. DRUJIMOND, Mr. J. H. PHILLIPS, and Mr. BYNG spoke in favour of restoring transportation. SA'/'tfIIDAT, Mr. W. EWART opposed the founding of a new penal colony, and thought punishment should take place in this country, for the purpose of deterring others. Mr. HENLEY thought that if a judge sentenced a man to penal servitude, and then, without reason assigned, this man was suddenly transported, the man would feel that this was an aggravation of his punishment, and that instead of the Crown exer cising mercy it was exercising arbitrary power. He hoped that when they got into committee the right hon. gentleman would let the word transportation stand. Mr. BAINES replied to some observations, and said that on the part of the present Secretary for the Colonies there had been no effort spared since the committee of the House of Lords made their report to discover a place where the convicts might be sent, and the result was that it was found to be difficult, if not impossible, to discover such a place. Mr. WiirrEsrDE believed that the people of this country would never be satisfied with a law which permitted the judge to pronounce one sentence and the Government to substitute another and a severer punishment. Mr. KEA:rrso and Mr. PACE gave a qualified support to the bill. Lord STANLEY said the question was not whether transportation was desirable or not, but whether it was possible, and his opinion was that any attempt to found a new penal settlement in any part of the globe would end in disappointment. If so, we were thrown upon the only colony that would receive convicts—namely, Western Australia—and with all the precautions we could and should take we must not rely upon the continuance of this resource, which would afford an outlet for only a limited number of convicts. With reference to the iucor. ngible class— His belief was that after the strictly penal term of im. prisonment had expired there would always be some criminals whom it would be impossible to let loose again upon society, and who must be in some manner detained and secluded from the rest of the community during the term of their lives. He did not mean by that to propose such a punishment as imprisonment for life within the walls of a gaol. Public feeling would not sanction that ; but detention was not necessarily imprisonment, and there were many places in which it might be possible to detain, to seclude, and to employ, in not unremunerative labour, criminals who from their habits and the magnitude of their offences it would not be right to let loose again upon society. Then with regard to the corrigible class of criminals, he thought the ticket-of-leave system had in reality never had a fair trial ; the theory was one thing, but the practice had been another. It was a fair ques tion, in his opinion, for the Government whether it was not possible to find employment for such men upon public works when the term of their imprison ment had expired. Then, again, the present ticket of•leave system was defective in this—that tickets were granted almost indiscriminately, the refusal being the exception, and the granting, after a certain term of imprisonment, the rule : He did not think that any ticket of leave ought to be granted until the prisoner had passed through something like a probationary stage of employment, such as could be given and had been given in more than one prison, by which his continued good conduct, when a certain amount of freedom was allowed him, might be tested. It was, he believed, a great mistake to suppose that those prisoners whose conduct was best in confinement were necessarily those who would do best on recovering their freedom. The prisoner who conducted himself best in gaol was generally speaking the man of the most docile character, who would be the most amenable to any influence, whether good or bad, which might be broa;lit to bear upon him, and he was therefore very often the man who, when the restraints of pris.mn discipline were removed, and he got among his old associates again, was the most liable to relapse into crime. There was another point also which deserved some notice in connection with this subject. He believed it was stated, when this question was last discussed, that, out of 1.140 tickets of leave which had been revoked, all except 41 had been revoked in consequence of reconvictions. Ilut if they laid down the rule that no ticket of leave should be revoked except upon a reconviction, and did not adopt the practice of revoking it upon the inability of the man to prove that he was earning an honest livelihood, the grant ing of a ticket of leave became a merely nominal thing, and the man might just as well be let loose upon society without one. The offence which led to his reconviction would have bratight him to the bar whether he had pos• sessed a ticket of leave or not, and by rigidly adhering to the rule in question the utility of the system was destroyed. These were the three measures to which we must mainly look for safety in dealing with the criminal population ; permanent detention of the worst class of criminals, a probationary sta g e su cceedi n g the penal period before tickets of leave should be granted, and a greater supervision than at present existed in cases where tickets of leave were granted. If these measures were adopted, he believed and trusted that they might safely pass through the difficult period which would follow the total abolition of transportation ; but, whether they passed through it safely or not, he was convinced that to return, on any large scale, to the practice of transportaticn, was, he did not say inexpedient, but simply and absolutely impossible.