The Press. — London, England, 1857-07-11 00:00:00

by which the government of Ireland might be carried on, after the adoption of a resolution, at the conclu sion of the session, condemning the existing state of things, rendering that state of things inefficient for the Government during a long period of time. This was a very inconvenient method of proceeiring on a grave question of this kind. The question was one surrounded with great difficulties, and he was not prepared at the present moment to propose any arrangement that would be satisfactory. He should vote for the previous question, and oven those who thought that, as an abstract proposition, the office of Lord Lieutenant might be dispensed with might vote for the previous question, which meant that the motion was not one whioli it was desiral.e for Par liament to entertain. Mr. DLSRAELI said the motion was unquestionably of no ordinary character; it proposed to make a great alteration in the Administration of Ireland, and the house should have the reasons before it which rendered such an alteration expedient and necessary. Now, no such reasons had been placed before tne house, and the charges brought against the office of Lord Lieutenant were of so general a character as would not, even if there were time, justify immediate or precipitate legislation : In the first place, it is said that the office is of a deceptive character—that it is, as it has been repeatedly styled by one hon. gentleman in the course of his speech, " a sham "—a word, the English of which I douht, and the parliamentary use of which I would almost deprecate. The reasons that have been advanced to show that the office is a sham " have not brought conviction to my mind. Some traits have been referred to which perhaps prove that to a certain extent it is a ceremony and a pageint ; but is the house prepared to terminate all ceremonies and to put an end to all pageants? Some of the objections which have been made to the office of Lord Lieutenant of Ireland would a pply t o sib „,, • Isr• high offices of State, and, if it were not something like utitspoe“.y to say so, I am not sure that they would not apply to the monarchy itself. Indeed, if you come to analyse all the arrangements and forms that surround the fulfilment of office, I am not clear that the highest offices in this house might not be open to the charge of being what the hon. gentleman styles " a sham." You might analyse the fulfilment of public duties, and prove that an unknown clerk in a public office could fulfil, and perhaps does fulfil, all these functions which attract so much public attention and obtain so much public confidence. You might reduce government to a much more simple and rude form than it is at present. Bat having done all this— having destroyed all sentiment and all responsibility—some day or other an awful crash might occur, and then you would discover that all the time you were simplifying the forms of government you had been in point of fact but destroying all the sources of authority. Without asserting that this form of administration is the one best adapted to the state of affairs in Ireland, or that it is best calculated to deal with all the circumstances which it has to control, and with which it has to contend, the right hon. gentleman maintained that it was absolutely necessary that a clear case should be put before the house before a change in the character of the Administration of Ireland was sanctioned, and that nothing but a feeling of general discontent acting upon tho Go vernment would justify the house, particularly at this moment, in entering upon the consideration of the question. No case had, however, been laid before the house. Accusations had been made against the Lord Lieutenant, but they were not justified in voting for the resolution unless the enormities of the office were so obvious, the public discontent so overwhelming, and the Ministry so negligent that the House of Commons ought to conic forward to provide a remedy for the wrong. This was not their position, and their only course Was to vote for the previous question, which implied that it was not convenient at the present time to discuss the motion. Mr. CONOLLY having spoken against the resolution, and Mr. ROEBUCK in reply, the house divided, when the previous question was carried by 266 to 115 ; so the resolution was not put. RESERVED FLEET. Sir C. NAPIER moved for returns of the names and rates of all steamers reserved and in commis ',ion, the number of their crews, &c. These returns, he said, were necessary in order to see the actual state of the steam navy, and he entered into many details to show that our navy was not sufficient for the requirements of the country in the event of a war. The motion was seconded by Mr. BEXTINCK. Sir C. Woou said the questions raised by the speeches of the two hon. members would require a long statement on his part, which he did not think it expedient to make at that late hour, especially since he must merely repeat the details he had given when moving the navy estimates. With respect to the returns asked for, the Government would not be Justified in giving them, which would be contrary to practice. A short discussion ensued, in the course of which some strong expressions were used by Sir C. NAPIER towards Admiral DUNCOMBE, to which the Speaker's THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BILL. The consideration in committee of this bill was resumed at clause 9. The clauses from oto 13 were agreed to after much discussion. On clause 14, Lord E. HOWARD took exception to words in the clause by which, over anti above the 33. a week which a parent was to contribute to the maintenance of his child in an industrial school, he was to be charged with the payment of other " expenses in curred respecting the child, and also the expenses of conveying the child to school." He objected to that part of the clause, because the expenses men tioned in it were unlimited, and because the payment 3f them would press heavily upon the poorer classes. Mr. ADDERLEY assented to the omission of the words objected to by the noble lord, and the words were expunged accordingly. The clause, as amended, was then ordered to stand part of the bill, as were also clauses 15, 16, and 17. Clause IR, imposing a penalty not exceeding 5/. on pei sons who shall induce children to abscond or remain away from school, was agreed to, Mr. ADDER LEY consenting to insert the words " two justices," instead of "one justice," on the bringing up of the report. The remaining clauses having been grimed to, Mr. ADDERLEY, in lieu of clause 5, which had been postponed, moved a clause providing that children taken into custody for vagrancy might be sent to school while inquiries were made. The clause was agreed to. Mr. ADDERLEY then moved a clause—for which he was indebted to the hon. member for Somersetsbire (Mr. Miles)—in lieu of clause 7. Its object was to enable justices to make the parent responsible for the good behaviour of his child. The original clause provided for a legal security being taken from the patent, but that having been strongly übjected to by 671 the right hon. member for Oxfordshire and others, he now proposed that they should only require a written assurance from the parent that he would be answerable for the good behaviour of his child fOr any period not exceeding twelve months. Mr. BOWYER moved the insertion of words limiting the operation of the clause to cases in which there had been a previous conviction. After a few words from Mr. Cox the amendment was agreed to. _ _ _ Mr._ Cox then proposed, after the words " giving magistrates power to order a child to be detained for such period as he may think necessary for his educa tion," to add, "not exceeding six months," which wes negatived. The clause, as amended, was then agreed to. Mr. ADDERLEY proposed the following new clause, which was agreed to : ff the child, after such assurance u aforesaid being given, be brought up again on a similar charge within the period for which the parent has become responsible for his good behaviour, the justices may inflict a fine upon the parent not exceeding 40a., should it be proved to thp satisfaction of the justices that the last•mentioned act of vagrancy has taken place through the neglect of the parent. Lord GODERICH proposed the following clause, which was also agreed to : The time during which any child shall be lodged in any certified industrial school under this act 'hall. for all the purposes of the Act of the 9th and 10th years of the reign of her present Majesty, chap. 66, and of every act incor porated therewith, be excluded in the computation of the time therein mentioned. Mr. GREGORY then proposed to add a clause, pro viding that the children in industrial establishments should be permitted to have the teaching of the ministers of the religious body of which they or their parents were members. Mr. MessEy thought the clause was one which required more consideration than time would allow upon this occasion, and would suggest that it should be withdrawn for the present and be brought up on the report. Mr. GREGORY expressed his willingness to accede to that recommendation. The schedules were agreed to, and the bill finally passed through committee at a quarter to six o'clock, the last mment at which opposed bills can be pro ceeded with on Wednesdays. OXFORD ELECTION. Mr. E. C. EGERTON reported from the select com• mittee appointed to inquire into the merits of the petition against the return for the last election for the city of Oxford : 1. That Charles Neate, Esq., was not duly elected to serve in the present Parliament at the last election for the city of Oxford, and that the said last election, as far as regards the said Charles Neate, Esq., was a void election. 2. That the said Charles Neate, Esq., by his agents, committed bribery at the said election. 3. That it was proved before the committee that 198 persona were employed by Mr. Neate's committee as poll clerks and messengers, In of whom voted for Mr. Neste, and that they subsequently received from his agents pay ments of sums varying from 11. to 2s. tid., which sums were paid under pretence of remuneration to messengers and runners ; and, although it Wll 4 l not proved before the committee that these payments to the voters were the pri- mary motives for deciding their votes, yet it appeared to the committee that in many cases no adequate services were performed for those payments. 4. That it appeared to the committee that the aforesaid acts of bribery were committed without the knowledge or consent of the said Charles Neste, Eq. i. That it was proved that treating to some extent was catried on at the last election for the city, but it was not proved to be catried on by the order or authority of the said Charles Neste, Esq. The committee thought it right to add that they were not of opinion that the issue of a new writ for the city of Oxford ought to be suspended. ELECTION. Mr. G. A. lissit.rom reported from the committee appointed to inquire into the petition against the last Maidstone election, that they found Mr. A. B. Hope and Captain Scott were duly elected. The committee also reported that the evidence given before them was unsatisfactory and contradictory ; and although no sufficient proof had been given of corrupt practices at the last election, the committee thought it necessary to state that a sum of 3,3001. was paid in 1847 for the expenses of one candidate, although there was no contest upon that occasion. The Turnpike Trusts Abolition (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. WILSON obtained leave to introduce a bill to authorise the Commissioners of Public Works (Ireland) to sell mill sites and water power, not withstanding final award, in any drainage or naviga tion district. The house adjourned at six o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS—Timnsn.tr. On the motion of Lord V CexeneLt, the Sale of Obscene Works Bill was reported as amended in committee, and ordered to be read a third time on Monday next. PRESS, JULY 11, 1857. attention was called, and Sir Charles was called upon to withdraw them, and did so. The question was then put and negatived, Sir C. Napier by mistake giving " No " against his own motion. Mr. HANKEY moved that the house do adjourn, and, a division being taken upon this question, it was carried by 140 to 86. An adjournment accordingly took place at twenty five minutes to one o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS-WEDNESDLY. THAMES CONSERVANCY BILL. On the order of the day for the second reading, General CODRINGTON opposed the bill, because, among other reasons, its principle was contrary to an opinion which the late Admiral Codrington ex pressed in strong terms to the First Lord at the Admiralty, to the effect that the navigation of the river Thames and of all tidal rivers was liable to be seriously damaged by embankments, wharfs, and 1,10,11 thrown into them by irresponsible persons. He ul that it be read that day six months. A prolonged discussion ensued, but the third mining was finally carried upon a division by a majority of 94-1712 to 78. THE PERSIAN WAR. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in laying upon the table an estimate of a vote of 500,0001., on account of the Per.,ian war, which he moved should he referred to a committee of supply, intimated his intention to move a resolution in a committee of ways and means whereon to found a bill to arrest the fall of the tea and sugar duties. Mr. ROEBUCK protested against the house being left in ignorance of the hostilities with Persia until called upon to pay the bill. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY inquired whether the 500,0001. would include the 200,0001., the sum first named ; whether, as the East India Company were to pay half the expense of the war, the whole cost would be 1,000,000/. ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that the 500,0001. was inclusive of the 200,0001., and that there would be no addition to that sum during the present session. Mr. SCOTT pressed for more explicit information as to the total expense. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not asking the house to agree to the vote, and that the proper place to discuss it was in committee of supply. Sir Jon?: PARINGTON rose to order. The Chan cellor of the Exchequer was adopting a most ir regular proceeding in thus interfering with the regular orders of the day : He begged to call the attention of the Speaker to the circumstances under which this motion had been made, and he submitted that the proceeding had been in error ab in um. [Si r J. Graham : " Move that it be postponed."] Under all the circumstances he should move that the debate be adjourned. The Speaker saw nothing irregular in the pro ceeding. A considerable discussion ensued upon this point of order, when at length the motion for the adjourn ment was withdrawn, and the estimates referred to a committee of supply.