The Press. — London, England, 1858-04-17 00:00:00

Vrattbings in V arlianunt. HOUSE OF LORDS—MOND-4.Y. SCOTCH UNIVERSITIES. The Earl of DERBY, in answer to a question from Lord Campbell, stated that the Lord Advocate was preparing a bill for the improvement of the Scotch Universities. TRANSFER OF ESTATES BILL. On considering the Report of Amendments on the Transfer of Estates Simplification Bill, Lord CRANWOBTH moved the rejection of the first clause of the bill, and the twelve clauses following and depending on it. After some discussion, in which the clauses were opposed by the Loan CHAN CELLOR and the Earl of DERBY, they were negatived without a division. The report was then received. The order for going into committee on the Law of Property Amendment Bill was discharged, on the motion of Lord ST. LEONARDS. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS—MONDAY. Mr. STUART WORTLEY took tha oaths and his seat for Batoshire. THE CASE OF THE " CAGLIARI." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply to Mr. Headlam, said that some very important docu ments with respect to the case arrived only on Saturday morning last. They had been submitted to the law officers of the Crown, and in consequence of the arrival of those documents he was not able that day specifically to state to the house the opinion at which the law officers had arrived, but ho trusted to be able to do so soon. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that if progress were made that night and on Friday with the votes for the great services, he should then make the financial statement on that day week (April the 19th). He had already fixed for that day the second read ing of the East India Bill ; but of course it would now be necessary to make another arrangement with respect to that measure, and he should propose the second reading on the earliest day possible after the financial statement. OF INDIA. On the report of the Committee of Supply, Lord J. RUSSELL, adverting to the Government of India Bill, and to the objections which, he said, it had generally provoked, observed that if the bill was pressed to a second reading, and all those objections were discussed, that discussion must necessarily partake of a party character, and would, in his opi nion, have injurious effects. The question was one of the deepest interest, and he thought it most desirable that some method should be devised, if possible, by which the house could arrive at a con clusion as to what its opinion was in reference to the future government of India, without raising debate of the character he had mentioned : Now, in referring to what took place on former occasions, I find that the greatest change, perhaps, that has been made since 1784 is the change made in 1813, when the East India Company were deprived of their monopoly, and the system of restriction was changed to one of free trade. On that occasion Lord Cutlereagh introduced into this house, in a committee of the whole house, a series of resolutions on which a bill was founded; and Lord Liver pool, in the other house, in stating the course to be adopted, said that it was an advantage that all the main propositions should be placed under several heads; that each head should be fairly and fully discussed, and that the resolutions should be afterwards submitted to the House of Lords, for then the two houses might agree on general principles before the bill was introduced. That coarse, no doubt, involved considerable discussion in committee of the house, but when the resolutions were agreed to very little discussion took place ou the bill, which passed in the course of the same session. This seemed to him the most convenient course for the house to take on the present occasion, and he thought it would gain time in the end. If the Go vernment did not think fit to adopt this course, he felt so strongly the great inconvenience and the great difficulty of discussing at once any bill upon this subject, that be should be prepared to propose resolu• Lions embodying the chief points of a measure for the government of India. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed that it must be obvious that the proposition of Lord J. Russell was a very convenient one, and he admitted that it was conducive to the public interests; but the late Government having proceeded by way of bill, and as it seemed to be the general feeling of the house that no unnecessary delay should take Place, the present Administration had brought for ward the plan they recommended in the shape of a bill. By Proceeding in the way of resolutions a better opportunity would be offered for discussing the essential principles of the measure ; at the same time, the house must feel that if that course should be adopted there ought to be no avoidable delay. On the part of the Government, he would not shrink fro m ProPOldha resolutions ) unless (which would be THE PRESS, APRIL 17,1858. more agreeable to himself) Lord J. Russell would do so, for which purpose a day should be at his service. The earliest day should be fixed for discussing them, and he suggested that day fortnight or the Friday following I believe the course be recommends is one which will be conducive to the public interests, for we shall then have an opportunity of expressing a formal and mature opinion upon those points respecting whicb great miscon ception exists as to the plan proposed by the present Government. I cannot bat believe that if we had an ample and complete discussion upon all the principles involved in the transfer of the government of India from the East India Company to her Majesty--as to whether undivided responsibility should be intrusted to any officer, whether he should be assisted by a council or not, whether such council should be purely nominative or partially elective, what should be its mode of procedure and what its duties — the task of legislation would afterwards be comparatively easy. I hope I may be allowed to express my wish and expectation that if the course suggested by the noble lord should be adopted the important question of the govern ment of India will not only be most amply and completely discussed, with the advantage of the knowledge and ex perience possessed by many members of this house, but that the discussion will be devoid of any party feeling— ( Hear, hear)—and that when we have arrived at a conclu sion, whatever it ma) be, upon the principles of govern ment to be applied to India, the country will be satisfied that the plan upon which we may determine will oonduce to the " safety, honour, and welfare of her Majesty and her dominions " (Cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL said, although he had offered to propose resolutions, it was an office which belonged properly to the Government. Sir C. Woon insisted that the resolutions should be proposed with the authority and on the respon sibility of the Government. He was surprised, he said, that Mr. Disraeli should have admitted the possibility of the Government delegating its func tions in this matter to any individual member. He was not so clear as Lord John Russell as to the ad vantage of proceeding by way of resolutions. The precedent of 1813 he did not consider to be appli cable to the present case. Mr. ELLICE concurred with Sir C. Wood in think ing that whatever proposition was made, it , should come from the Government. Mr. WALPOLE observed that both the preceding speakers had mistaken the purport and intention of the remarks of Mr. Disraeli, who had said that he would not shrink from the responsibility of pro posing the resolutions—a function which he (Mr. Walpole) admitted properly belonged to the Execu tive Government. The house being in possession of the two bills, it did not become the Government to abandon their bill unless the house should be of opinion that the mode of proceeding by way of reso lutions was preferable. It never was the intention of the Government to abdicate their proper function and responsibility. Lord PALKERSTON said he was so deeply impressed with the importance of the question as to the future government of India that be should prefer leaving things as they were for another year to passing a bill containing a bad organization. As to the ques tion immediately before the house, he thought the method of proceeding by way of resolutions not applicable to the present state of things ; that it was contrary to the ordinary practice of the house, and would be an inconvenient precedent. The CHANCELLOR of the ExcHEquER : I simply wish to make an explanation in consequence of some remarks which fell from the right hon. baronet the member for Halifax ( Sir C. Wood), who has misconceived the expressions I used if he supposed that I intimated any desire to abdicate the duties which I ought to perform either upon this or any other subject. (Hear, hear.) But, having been the organ of the Government in introducing a bill upon this subject, and the noble lord the member for the city of London rising in his place and expressing an intention of recommending some propositions or resolu tions, I thought, and upon reflection I still think, I should have been guilty of the utmost arrogance if, under the cir cumstances, I had risen and told the noble lord that I could not give him the opportunity he asked for. (Hear, hear.) I could not undertake that' responsibility, and if I had adopted any other course than that which I did I should, in my opinion, have acted in a manner inconsistent with the forms of the house and the character of a ger_ile man. (Hear, hear.) I may add that I shall place these resolutions upon the table of the house as speedily as possible, in order that the house may have ample time to consider them before discussing them, and I shall pro pose that upon this day fortnight these resolutions shall be moved. (Cheers.) Mr. Bouvaam complained of the course proposed as being totally unprecedented. Were the resolu tions, he asked, to be different from the bill or not? If different, was the bili to be given up; or were there to be three distinct propositions 'before the house? Sir B. lists, asked Mr. Disraeli whether he in tended to abandon his bill. Mr. Holmium observed that the two bills conveyed to his mind a sense of the inherent difficulties of this question. The course taken by the house had been unprecedented; it proposed to make a great change, to frame a new government for our Indian empire, which had to be re-established without any 375 preliminary inquiry whatever. He agreed with Lord Palmerston that the inconvenience of prolonging the present state of things for another year was preferable to the evils of hasty legislation. Neither of the two bills was satisfactory. Sir B. Harr. having repeated his question, The CissucELLos of the EXCHEQUER said : I can only answer that question with the permission of the house, Lying already spoken on the subject now before it. It is my intention at present, as I think it is the general wish of the house, to propose certain resolutions, and to do so on this day fortnight. It certainly never entered my imagination to give up the bill which I had the honour of introducing, and I have a lively conviction that the result of discussing these resolutions will be to effect such a change—if change be indeed necessary—in the general opinion of the house as that the bill will in its general spirit be adopted, and that we shall carry it by a considerable majority, modified, no doubt, by the criti cisms which are brought out in that discussion. (Hear, hear.) I dare say the bill may be very much changed, but have no doubt that, improved as it will be by the united experience of the house in this discussion, the bill will ultimately become the law of the land. (Hear, hear.) The report was then agreed to. NAVY AND ARMY ESUWATES. On the motion that the house go into a Committee of Supply on the Navy Estimates, Mr. W. WiLuAms moved as an amendment that the Navy and Army Estimates be referred to a select co mmittee. Sir Joi; PAICINGTON briefly opposed the amend ment, which was negatived on a diviviot by a ma jority of 161 to 24. NAVY The house then went into committee, and Sir JOHN PAZINOTON rose to propose the Navy Estimates. The First Lord of the Admiralty prefaced the first vote with a detailed explanation of the present state and proposed modifications of the British navy. The total force voted for 1857-8 amounted to 35,000 officers, seamen, and boys, 2,000 men for surveying service, and 5,700 for the Coastguard—in all 55,700 men. That force he proposed to increase by 2,000 officers and seamen, and 1,000 men for the Coast guard service ; but even this increase fell short by 1,300 men of the hands actually required to man the home ships now in commission, for, although our squadrons on foreign service were in a most efficient state, the position of the navy at home was not so satisfactory : While, however, I make that statement, I think (added Sir John Pakington) I may confidently say that in some important respects this country is in a better position with respect to the manning of her navy than that in which she stood some time since, and I believe it requires nothing more than a fair degree of liberality upon the part of the House of Commons to place that important subject upon a most satisfactory footing. (Cheers.) Yet that we should have to rely entirely upon our Coastguard service for the defence of our shores in a case of emergency was not satisfactory How, then, are we to deal with this most important point? I am in hopes we may be able to do so in an efficient man ner by the judicious extension of the system of continuous service men. ( Hear, hear.) I cannot too strongly lament the course which was taken by the right hon. baronet oppo site last year in allowing no less than 3,000 men serving on board our ships, and enlisted as continuous service men, to be discharged from the navy, and thus lost to the country. (Hear, bear.) lam unwilling to speak of the conduct of the right hon. baronet in the language of cen sure, and I am perfectly well aware of the pressure which wu exercised upon the Government last year by the cry of economy which was raised throughout the country. I can not, however, help wishing that the right hon. baronet bad had the wisdom and the firmness to say, in answer to that cry, that the great interests of England ought not to be tam pered with, and that the nation ought not to have receded from the bargain into which it had entered. (Hear, hear.) We had when the right hon. baronet took the step to which I allude a reserve force of between 23,000 and 24,000 con tinuous service men. Under the pressure of the cry of economy, however, the Government signified to those men that any of them who wished to have their discharge might obtain it. The practical result was that out of 5,000 or 8,000 of them who happened to be in our home ports no less than 3,000 were lost to the country, and that number has never since been made up. (Hear, bear.) Bat that is not all. The worst consequence of the unhappy step which was taken by the late Government was the moral effect which it produced upon the men themselves. It was regarded by them in the light of a breach of faith. They said, "You have enlisted us for a period of ten years. We are still willing to serve you; yet you tell us to go about our business." ( Hear, hear.) The result has been most un fortunate. We must endeavour to retrace our course, and, if possible, to regain the position which we occupied. In the attainment of that object we have to some extent suc ceeded, inasmuch as the number of the continuance service men amounts at present to about 22,000. The aim of those who are intrusted with the management of the naval affairs should be, as it appears to me, while maintaining the mi nimum amount of force necessary for the protection and service of the country, to take care th at all the seamen should be entered for continuous service. (Hear, hear. ) Sir John Pakington then described the means the Government intended to adopt to secure a regular supply of seamen for the royal navy The strengtt. of the navy must, of course, vary according to the state of public affairs, and there must always be a