The Express. — London, England, 1866-04-28 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.-FRIDAY, APRIL 27. The LORD CHANCELLOR, took his seat on the woolsack at 5 o'clock. PETITIONS , The Earl of I3ELMORE, for the Earl of Courtown , pre sented petitions against the disendownient of the Iriah church frean the iambitants and ratepayers of Fethard, county of Tipperary, _ The Eskl of BANDON pr esented a petition from the County Qpet Agrietattural Societe in favour of the a pointment of a professor of agriculture in the Queen's College, Cork. The noble earl said it was desirable that the profiltworship should be restored, and he begged the attenticai of the government to the prayer of the petition. PRIVATE BUSINESS. On the motion of Lord ItertesnaLe the following bills were reads. second time :—Huddersfield Water, Manchester Improves:sent, Frome Gas, Dryclough, Shaw, and Roch dale Roads, Stafford, Churcbbridge, &c., Roads, Butter ton Moor End Road, Wrexham, Mold, and Connah's Quay Railway lAdditional Capital), and Drayton Junctio n Rail way Bahl; and the following were read a third time and wsed :—Pagan Harbour, Metropolis Sewage and Essex 7Reclamation, Eidwelly and Burry Port Railway and Burry Port Amalgamation, Dement and Shotley Bridge Rowl, West Middlesex Water, and Dublin Corporation Water Bills. FEES PAYABLE IN IRELAND ON THE REGIS TRATION OF ESTAT. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition relating to the fees payable in Ireland upon the registra tion of titles to estates, and moved for copies of certain returns in relation thereto, and also for a return of the duty paid upon declarations of title made and registered in each year up to the present time. The noble marquis complained that the fees charged in Ireland were exorbi tant ns compared with the charges for the same pur pose in England, and also that these charges operated aa bar to registration of estates in that country ; and he wanted to know when the government would take steps to have View charges reduced to a proper and equitable amount. The Eml of BELMORE said he wished to ask whether the government would soon make known their decision upon thin subject, as he had called the attention of his noble friend the tinder-Secretary for War to it some time ago. Lord DL'FFERIN, in reply to the motion of the noble marquis, said there would be no objection to the returns which he had moved for. He regretted to say he was still unable to supply the information sought for by his noble friend opposite, and all he could state at present was that the matter was still under the consideration of the go vernment. The motion was then put and agreed to. PUBLIC OFFICES (SITE) BILL. This bill passed through committee. Their lordships adjourned at half-past 5 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAY, Arno. 27. The house met at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The fdllowing bills were read a third time :—Ellesmere and Glyn Valley Railway ; Hoylake Railway ; Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway (West Riding Branches, &c.) ; Uxbridge and Rickmansworth Railway ; W iuchcomb and Midland Railway ; Wrexham, Mold, and Connah's Quay Railway (Extensions) Bills. ELECTION COMMITTEES. The members appointed to serve upon the Banbury and Cheltenham election committees were called to the table and sworn. CITY TRAFFIC. - - - - -- Mr. 0, STANLEY gave notice of his intention to ask the Home Secretary on Monday, whether, in accordance' with the special report of the City Traffic Committee, the commissioners of police in their respective districts had been instructed to submit regulations for the traffic of the metropolis. ELECTORAL STATISTICS. Mr. DISRAELI presented a petition from certain elec. I tors of Rochdale, stating that the petitioners had noticed with great surprise that the number of the working classes upon the parliamentary register in the borough was stated by the government returns to be only 68. The petitioners bad made inquiries as to the number of working men on the register within the instructions of the Poor-law Board, and found the number in these townships to be 226 (hear, hear)—and this did not include any overworkers, overseers, superintendents, or foremen, or any persons not employed in daily manual labour. He had another peti tion to present from Borstal, signed by Mr. Enoch Waigly, who repeated him to say that he was a strong liberal in politics, stating that he was chairman of the board of goardiana, and that according to the returns prepared by the direction of the Poor-law Ilmrd, out of a constituency in one parish of 680 there were 197 working men. The petitioner expressed surprise that the aocuracy of this return had been denied in • petition presented to the house, and stated that the guardians had made strict inquiries, and bad satisfied themselves of the strict accuracy of the statement furnished by their clerk. (Hear.) The petitioner further stated that although a considerable number of these working men did keep beer-houses or small shops—(cries of ' Hear, hear" from the ministerial side)—such shops or beer-houses were attended to by their wives or other mem bers of their family, and that they themselves all worked as potters or colliers, or in some other form of manual labour at weekly wages. (Hear, hear.) Another petition which he had been asked to present was from Ashton under-Lyric, and was very much to the same effect. It stated that according to the electoral returns the numberof working linen in the constituency was 188, whereas the actual number sent up by the clerk was 350, and the reduc tion had been made by the exclusion of overlookers in cotton mills and others who were engaged in manual labour at weekly wages. Mr. CRAWFORD—What is the prayer of these peti timri, Mr. DISRAELI— The prayer of the petition from Ashton under-Lyne is for inquiring into the number of working class electors, and also into the circumstances under which they are put upon the register, having reference to the allegation with respect to what are called vote shops. The other petitions also pray for inquiry. THE CATTLE DISEASE. Mr. H. LEWIS asked the Secretary for the Home De partment whether he bad received information that the provinces of Friesland and Groningen were entirely free from the rinderpest ; and if so, whether it was his inten tion to take steps to modify the existing restrictions on the importation of cattle and sheep from those provinces. Sir G. GREY said representations had been received by the committee of council to the effect that the two pro. vinces referred to were free from the cattle plague, and that the restriction on the importation of cattle from those provinces should be removed. Before that could be done, however, there must be strict inquiries made in order to guard against cattle from other places being imported through those provinces, and also to secure that the cattle should not in the transit come into contact with diseased animals. THE MARRIAGE LAWS. In answer to Mr. D IACSON, Mr. Setant ARMSTRONG said that the Marriages (Ireland) No. 2 Rill would not vontain any provision inter fering with the existing state of the law as to marriages between two protestant* by a Roman catholic clergyman. The bill would be in the hands of members to-morrow. SUPPLY. The motion for going into committee of supply was made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but was unmediately, by leave of the house, withdrawn. THE REFORM RILL The adjourned debate on the motion for the second read ing of the Representation of the People Bill was then resumed. Lord CRANBORNE, on rising, was met with cries of " Spoke" from some members on the ministerial side. He said a word had reached him from the other aide which he should be happy to deal with first. The course he had taken on the previous night was, in his opinion, in strict accordance with the rules of the house ; however that might be, he was prepared to argue the question on the fitting occasion, but he believed it had been agreed that no further action should be taken on the subject. (Hear.) In dealing with this question, the first feeling which must press upon the mind of every person who advocated the amendment was that of ridding himself from certain odious charges which it had been the policy of the supporters of the bill to cast upon all who opposed it. It hail been said by the noble lord the member for Haddington (Lord Elcho) that defamation of opponents was one of the many engines by which the amendment was opposed. ("Oh, oh," and cheers.) He wished before going into the hill to deal with those imputations which had been so freely made, especially by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) It was necessary before discussing the bill at all that they should first make their confession of faith with respect to the working men. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had thrown imputations of the gravest and most damaging character upon all members upon the opposition side of the house, and, indeed, upon all who supported the amend ment; and, not content with throwing those im putations in the house—indeed, in the house they had appeared in a milder and more modified form—(cheers) — the right hon. gentleman went down to Lancashire where there were no opponents to answer him, and where he could make what statements he pleased without fear of being corrected, and made accusations of a most dangerous character against those who opporied his bill. The right hon. gentleman toll his audience there that members on the opposition side of the house readily and earnestly accepted the imputation that they had treated the working classes as an invading army. There was not the slightest founda tion for that imputation. (Hear, hear.) 'When first the Chancellor of the Exchequer made it he had protested against it, because as he and the hon. member for Stoke were the only speakers who followed the right hon. gentleman in the debate he had thought the right hon. gentleman had by some misapprehension come to that oonclio.ion from some words of thews. He had since ascertained that it was not from these words that the Chan ce ll or o f th e E xc h equer drew' THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, the charge, but that the damaging and odious charge was made solely from the interpretation which the right hon. gentleman placed upon a cheer which he imagined he heard from some part of the house. The right hon. gentle man having said that they looked upon the working classes as an invading army, and having imagined that he beard from the opposition side of the house some inarticulate assent to that proposition, did not attempt to fix the charge at the moment when it might have been contra dicted and disproved—(cheers)—but went down to Liver pool, and thereldore a select audience of his friends, ad mitted by tickets, 80 that there could be no opposi tion, told them, in fact, that that was the light lin which the conservative party looked upon the working classes. It did not seem to him that it was consistent with the obligations which a leader of the House of Commons ought to accept. If a leader of the house had cause to impute to members of the house any opinions which he deeply censured, it was upon the floor of the house alone that he ought to impute those sentiments to them. (Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the lE:chequer might search the annals of the House of Com mons in vain to find another precedent of a leader of the house going down to a provincial audience and telling them that those who opposed him in debate were guilty of sentiments upon which he east the gravest censure. (Hear, hear.) He thought it right to make his pro test upon this subject, because it was one of the or dinary weapons of gentlemen opposite to im pute to their opponents some species of ill-feel ing towards the working classes. Sometimes it was that they distrusted them, sometimes that they insulted them, sometimes that they detested them, and sometimes that they were anxious to exclude them from all share in political government. (Cheers.) He could understand that when the supporters of the government had nothing to say in support of the bill or against the amend ment it was very convenient to shower dirt on those who opposed the measure. (Cheers.) But the right hon. gen tleman could not have obtained from the words of any speaker upon the opposition side anything that would jus tify the odious charges he bad brought against them. He felt himself that there were dangers to avoid in deal ing with the working classes. He had heard much about the working classes in that house which had filled him with apprehension. It was believed by many honourable gentlemen opposite that the working classes were to be their future sovereign, that they were to be the great power in the state against which no other power could stand, and it was with feelings of no small terror and disgust that he had heard phrases used which sounded, he hoped unduly, like adulation of the sovereign, while those who used those phrases expected to reign over them. If there uses one great claim which the House of Commons had upon the people of the country, if it had done anything to establish the present balance of power among all classes of the country, and prevent any one class from overbearing the rest, it was that in the pre sence of all powers, however great or terrible, it had always been free and independent in its language. (Hear, hear.) It had never in times when kings were powerful, fawned upon them, it had always resisted their unjust pretensions and had refund to al low any courtierly instincts to sup press in it the solicitude for the freedom of the people which it was their duty to cherish. He should deeply regret if at a time when it was said they were about poli tically to change their sovereign, at a time when some might think that new powers were about to rule, • dif ferent spirit were to influence the House of Commons. Nothing could be more dangerous to the reputation of that house, nothing more fatal to its authority, than that it should be suspected of sycophancy to any power, were it from below or above, which was likely to become a dominant power in the state. (Hear, hear.) They had heard a great deal too much of working men, as if they were different from other Englishmen. (Cheers.) He did not understand why the nature of the poor man or working man should be different from that of any other. (Hear, hear.) They sprung from the same race, they lived under the same climate, they had been brought up under the same laws, thy aspired after the same his torian modals as others, and he did not understand why their nature was to be thought, for betteror worse, different from that of other men. (Ministers' cheers.) He said nothing about their temptations. If they applied to any class of the community special temptations they would find that class addicted to special vices, and that was what he feared they were doing now. They were not recognising the fact that, dealing with men who were Englishmen in their nature, with every English virtue and vice, if they applied to them • special training they must not look forward to that special result which at tended a different training. Those who had sat on election committees would agree with bim that the franchise was a convertible commodity. It had a value, and in two wa s . The franchise had a direct money value to those who did not care much about public affairs, in the way of bribery; and it had an indirect money value to those who did care about public affairs, in the way of en couraging unjust and special class legislation. If they gave the franchise to those who would naturally be tempted to misuse it, they must expect that the larger props rtion who were not deeply interested in public affairs would be liable to temptation, and to treat it as a saleable com modity. The minority, more influential, more deeply in terested in public affairs, would be liable to treat it, not as a saleable commodity, but as something to get for them laws with respect to taxation and property especially favourable to them as a class, and dangerous therefore to all other classes of the community. That was the temp tation to which they were exposing the working man by giving him the franchise, and they were exposing him I much more than other c lasses of the community, for the simple reason that he was poorer. It was perfectly true that the poor had their virtues as well aathe rich, and the rich had their vices as well as the poor ; but the vices of ' the poor, unfortunately, had a special bearing upon their fitness for the exercise of political rights. The poor were liable more than the rich to be tempted if they put into their hands anything that was pecuniarily convertible. (Hear, hear.) A. great deal of odium had been cast upon speakers in that house because they had said that the poorer classes were more venal than the rich. That was not true as to their nature, but it was true as to the temptations to which they were exposed. It was ridiculous to assert that 501. would not tempt a man of whose income it formed one-third or one fourth more than it would a man of whose income it formed one-thirtieth or one-fortieth. Therefore all bribes, whether in the direct form of money value or the indirect form of class legislation, men be expected tout more upon the poorer classes than upon the upper classes of the commu nity. With respect to theamendment of the noble earl, it ap peared to him that there had been seemingly a kind of demon that had attended all the speeches proceed ing from honourable gentlemen on the government side of the house, which forced them, whatever they said, to spak in such a way as to support the amendment of the noble earl. The government com menced the debate with very cavalier language on the sub ject of the Franchise Bill, and did not care to introduce the Redistribution of Seats Bill at all. The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not absolutely say so, but he intimated in pretty clear terms that he intended the Seats Bill to come on next year. The right hon. gentleman was driven from that position, and then he said the Seats Bill was to be brought in this year. Then it was thought the Seats Bill should come on only for mally; and then the right honourable gentleman again gave way, and it was to be made a matter of the standing or fa lling of the government. (Hear, hear.) Now they were told a third step was to be taken, and that the Seats Bill was to proceed park passe with the Franchise Bill, in order to satisfy the scruples of some members of the government. He felt some difficulty in believing that, because be bad referred back to the speech of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, and it seemed to him from the language used no one could have given a stronger pledge to a contrary course. (Hear, hear.) As the Chancellor of the Exchequer might possibly, at a later period of the evening, take the opportunity of making such an announce ment, he (Lord Cranborne) would read to the house what the right bon. gentleman said at the beginning of this debate with reference to the pushing forward of the Seats Bill. On moving the second reading of this bill the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, " Allow ing for full and free discussion regarding the subject, we could not expect that the two portions of the question could be dealt with within the ordinary and usual duration of the session, and he must decline to proceed with the other portion of the sub ject until the fate of the Franchise Bill was determined, and then it would be for the government to review their position." If the right hon. gentleman did, in spite of that declaration, now say he would proceed with the Seats Bill pan plum with the Franchise Bill—that was, before the fate of theFranchiae Bill was determined—hetwould be admitting that he had departed from those motives of duty which had originally actuated him. (Laughter.) The house would take notice that such a proceeding entirely disposed of that question of time which the Chancellor of the Exchequer made so much of on introducing the bill. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. Eir e lian said there were only twenty-four days at the ' d n of the govern ment, that twelve of them must devoted to finan cial huffiness of the crown, and that twelve only would re main for the Reform Bill, and therefore argued in an un answearble way, according to his own line of &gement, that it was impossible to proceed with the Franchise Bill and also the Seats Bill in the present session. If the ru mours which were flying about were true, and if the right hon. gentleman did pledge himself to proceed with the Seats Bill . pari passu with the Franchiseßill, it wouldfollow that the right hon. gentleman did not use the argument about the time of the house with any personal conviction that it was correct. (Opposition cheers.) He supposed that if the Solicitor-General for Scotland or the right hon. gentleman the member for the duchy of Lancaster spoke on this subject, they would say it was a party manoeuvre, and that it was impossible to get a majority without it— (hear)—and according to modern morality, he had no doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer would think itright that the government might pursue an argument which they did not believe in themselves. But to use an expression of a friend ' of the right hon. gentleman's, he (Lord Cranborne) did not like to see unnecessary humiliation, and be thought that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer made any attempt to influence votes by this concession he would be subjecting himself to unnecessary humiliation. (Hear, hoer.) It was a very painful thing to see a man eat dirt at any time— (laughter)—but • much more painful thing to see him eat dirt when we knew he would not be paid for it. (Renewed laughter.) His (the noble lord's) theory was, that the right hon. gentleman would endanger his ch aracter and position by thus contradicting his previous declaration, and would not gain a single vote on the division. (Hear, hear.) Such a course would entirely misrepresent our position. What they wanted was, not that the Suffrage Bill and the Seats BM should 'proceed peri pessu— that meant to say one after the other. (Lanighter.) I What they wanted was that the two subjects should pro osed together in the same bill. (Opposition cheers.) They wanted information ; but that was not their main object. What they wished most for was control. (Hear, hear.) What they wished was that the form of the bill should be such that from tint to last the influence of the house should be all powerful, and it should enjoy undisputed and undbuirdslied control. (Hear, hear.) He had a right to claim the government as a witness in favour of the amendment of the noble earl. Why did they make these Concessions What did they admit? They admitted that the House of Commons had a right to have the whole sub ject before them, though the right hon. gentleman had declined to admit this previously. (Hear, hear.) The I Chancellor of the Exchequer had been compelled to make that admission, and it showed that he accepted now what he would not before the amend ment was introduced. But it was not only the right hon. gentleman and the government that they might claim as witnesses in this matter. The bill had been argued on the other side, some people mid, with want of ability. He did not in the least agree with that statement. Considering the difficulty of the case, the ability displayed was very respectable—(hear, hear)—and he should be inclined to say the hon. member for Exeter (Mr. Coleridge), the hon. member for Birmingham, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the hon. member for Westmin ster (Mr. Mill) made the four speeches to which the house must most look for arguments in favour of the bill. All those speeches were well argued, and all started upon a foundation which might be true, and in a great degree was true. (Hear, hear.) They went on to a certain point with the ability with which they began, but they stopped short, as before a chum, at the point where they were required to connect thi s bill with the ar gument they used ; and the difficulty in each case arose bemuse they had not got the link which would be furnished if the government had enabled the house to see what the distribution of seats would be. (Hear, hear.) He would first refer to the arguments used by the hon. and learned member for Exeter. That hon. and learned gentleman took the ground of fitness, and argued that the 71. house holders were fit for political power. In spite of all difficul ties and in spite of the argument of the noble lord the member for King's Lynn, the hon. member maintained the fitness of these 71. householders to be so great that he was fully prepared to admit them to power. What did that fitness mean? If it meant fitness for political power he entirely concurred with the bon. and learned gentleman ; but if it meant to enable them to lord it over all the other classes of the community—to be despots over the rest—he (Lord Cranborne) must say that was a fitness he was not prepared to recognise. (Hear, hear.) But they were dealing with unknown quantities. They did not know the constituency of the future. (Hear, hear.) It was absolutely impouible to ascertain the fitness of people whose names, localities, and habitations were not known. Until they knew what the constituencies were to be it was impossible to tell whether they were fit for the franchise or not. (Hear, hear.) And he need hardly remind hon. members who were acquainted with the evidence taken before committees of that house, of the extent to which sugar and paint might be used in dealing with large con stituencies. (Laughter.) There were two election com mittees now sitting—Huddersfield and Wakefield. [An HON. Maness: The Wakefield case is decided.] Was it decided that there had been no bribery in the borough (Cheers.) Nobody could say but that it reqsired minute and careful investigation before they accepted too readily the assertion that people were fit for the elective franchise because they lay between certain strata of the population. The hon. member for Westminster, in a most able and con vincing speech, argued in favour of concentration of the franchise, saying the working classes were represented up to • certain point, but it was valueless because not =E. ciently concentrated. He entirely agreed with the hon. member that concentration with representation would in many cases be highly desirable. A certain number of working men sitting there would prove no derogation to the dignity of that house. (Hear, hear.) Nay, they might possibly increase its value. In fact, if he might make a definite proposition, he would say that he would readily sacrifice twenty or thirty seats of what the Chancellor of the Exchequer called " the moun tain," and substitute in their place working men. (Hear, hear.) He believed that so far as the working clarion were concerned, their natural leaders, the prominent men among them, would be better representatives than some of those from the higher classes who, for reasons best known to themselves, chose to identify themselves with them. (Hear, hear.) There was • fallacy in the argument of the hon. member for Westminster, who admitted that a preponder ance of the working classes in the house was to be avoided, and said if they returned • majority of members they would probably use that power for putting on the statute book legislation founded on theories to which he should object. Surely the hon. gentleman would first require in formation to prove to him that the result he feared could not happen. He thought the hon. member would prove that under this bill the working classes should not have • majority, but at that point he stopped short, and passed from the general subject to the cattle plague, or some similar topic, without attempting to prove that under this bill the working classes would not have a preponderance. That was the point to prove—(hear, hear)—and it was the point which the amendment required: to be proved. It made the difference between a good reform bill and a bad reform bill, as to whether the working classes now, or at a proximate period, should have a majority. That was the keystone on which the whole matter rested. It was not difficult to show danger or ruin in that direction. The hon. member for Birmingham pointed out that as they an ranged the redistribution of seats, in that degree they re arranged the distribution of political power. Mr. BRIGHT—I said that you might destroy popular representation. (Hear, hear.) Lord CRANBORNE—That was true, but they might do the other thing. They might produce republicanism on the one hand and absolute despotism on the other. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentlenuin said that the right hon. member for Calne and himself (the noble lord) might so re-arrange the seats as to destroy popular political power ; but if they were to follow the scheme proposed by the bon. member for Leicester (Mr. Taylor) the result would be very different, and democratic power would be the only thing left in this country. (Opposition cheers.) Look at the figures ;130was the numberof seats which in his opinion this bill would give to the working classes in Eng land, and according to a similar calculation for Scotland and Ireland the number would be raised to 15.5. Now, as to the distribution of seats, anyone who looked through the statis tics would see in • moment that if they removed the power from those boroughs most likely to be disfranchised, they would band them over mainly from the middle class to the working classes. The question was, what was likely to happen with res t rest to that redistribution of seats. They were inevitably driven to observe the influence of the hon. member for Birmingham over the cabinet. The hon. mem ber made • speech the other night, and it was very kind and good of him to make it in such • moderate tone. He knew what the hon. gentleman thought of them — he thought they were the offspring of landlord influence in the counties and of corruption in the boroughs, and yet his speech showed • command of temper and almost a sacrifice of principle in addressing them in such a kind and patronising manner. (Laughter.) But he could not draw from the speech any comfort as to that apprehension they all entertained that the hon. member for Birmingham controlled the government too much in this matter. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member informed them that he had had no consultation on thisquestion with Earl Russell for seven years. Had he not had any con versation with the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Trade during that period ? (Opposition cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT—Very often. Lord CRANBORNE—Just so. He gathered that from certain things he had seen in print. The Chancellor of the Exchequer told • meeting that there bad been a sort of subterranean communication between the premier and the hon. member for Birmingham. It was an ides that filled one with horror. One thought of the President of the Board of Trade, armed with a dark lantern. finding his way along the sewers, with that imperturbable amiability of countenance sohabitualtohini, tothe house of Earl Russell, or to the house of what he would call the head centre of this conspiracy. (Opposition cheers.) It was very gratifying to find that that report had no foundation, and that the President of the Board of Trade was allowed to go above ground. But whether the right hon. gentleman went above ground or under ground, he (Lord Cranborne),was afraid the evidence of direct com munication between the hon. member for Birmingham and the cabinet was too strong to be resisted. (Hear, hear.) For extraordinary human actions they required extraordi nary motives, and to every observer it was perfectly inex plicable why the government should have adopted the precise eoursewhich seemed certain to lead them to destruc tion—why they should have introduced this bill in such a form that it was imputable to pass the House of Commons —why they should have departed from the traditions of former days, and when they knew that that course was recommended by the hon. member for Birmingham, and by him alone. (Hear, hear.) He had no objection to the cabinet, if they liked, reposing on so able and eminent a man; but he (the noble lord) wished to ascertain something about this Sesta Bill, which was still under consideration, or in the pocket of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. In 1858, the hon. member for Birmingham gave the house some hint as to his view of the distribution of sesta, for he pro posed a bill which would disfranchise 140 constituencies. Well, if they disfranchised 90, they would transfer a ma jority in the whole house under the 71. franchise from the middle to the working classes. It was a matter of simple calculation, and of course all they wished to know was whether that was likely to happen. (Hear.) The hon. member for Birmingham had treated with abso lute contempt the proposal of Lord Derby's Refonn which, in a better hour, even obtained the approval of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The hon. gentleman com plained that the bill did not disfranchise Caine, Arundel, and Portarlington. That rather raised formidable appre hensions in one's mind, because Lord Derby's bill went on the principle of taking one member from existing boroughs. The hon. member for Birmingham evidently resisted that, and proposed that a schedule should be inserted in the new billinmilar to the schedule in the Reform Bill of 1832. The honourable gentleman, the member for Birmingham, did not propose anything, but be treated with contempt and derision any proposal which did not include Arundel, Caine, and Portarlington. The bill of 1860 did not include those boroughs, and therefore the hon. member must ex pect something very much larger than was contained in the schedule of that bill. He was anxious to raise the veil from the probable proceedings of the government in this matter, because no evidence was given to them ripen which they ceed4l forts any judgment. Thor nothing except what they could j wither from the oplsii expressed by the hon. member for Birmingham]. It war clue that they bad no information which would mat* them to argue even approximately what power the week lag dosses or the lower classes would possess under the measure of the government. He wished to ask what grounds they had for confidence in the leader of the house that they should accept him in the place of a measure. The right honourable gentleman asked them to yield all their confidence to him, and to offer .their obeisance to him upon the second reading, before he gave them any information on the subject. He wished to ask whether, from what they knew of his opinions, there was say ground for absolutely confiding in him as to any imbee quent measures he might propose! (Hear, hear.) What were the grounds on which the right hon. gentleman urged the bill upon the house? He had not argued it at all (Hear, hear.) He did not prove any necessity for re form, and he argued it entirely on the question of pledges. Now ,r 1 great deal had been said on the subject of pledges, and he wished to enter his p rotest against the view which seemed to be entertained so larg ely on the treasury bench, and to some extent on that s ide of the house as to the house having been pledged to reform. (Hear, hear.) He wanted to know what a pledge was. If a pledge was made by the House of Commons, surely it would be found recorded in some document. But what was the ground on which the Chancellor of the Exchequerurged the pledges made by the House of Commons? Well, there was • certain number of queen's speeches, but he did not suppose that so constitutional • statesman as the right hon. gentleman would attempt to bind them by Queen s speeches. (Hear, hear.) Then, several bills were introduced, but so far from binding the house, they were invariably rejected or over—(hear, hear)—and it was rather alarming to rtl e ed that if • measure was passed over by the Howe of Commons, therefore members were pledged to its principle. They had been told that if they passed this bill they would hear no more of reform for twenty or thirty years, but they were told when they passed the bill of 1832 that it would be a permanent and final settlement. He would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what ground he bad for mppwng that the result of the measure would be such that a large majority of the house would ap prove of it. In Lord Pahnerston's time there was • measure which was supported by that noble lord and his adherents, but they had absolute faith in Lord Palmerston that, whatever happened, he would not do much harm to the British constitution. That bill was read a second time without a division • but could they the same confidence in the supporters of this bill ! e (Hear, hear.) Was it moderate liberals who supported the present bill, or those who had avowed their object to destroy the House of Lords and the established church ? (hear, hear}—and who availed themselves of every oppor tunity to render homage to American institutions? (Harx, hear.) The noble lord referred to speeches made at meet ings in favour of reform, and chiefly to an open air meeting on Clerkenwell-green, at which a Mr. Lewcroft, a cabinet maker, said that for 800 years the lordlinga had ruled them with a rod of iron, and accumulated millions ; that the Marquis of Wes t minster and Lord Stanley had thousands of acres, while those who worked for their living could not get a foot of ground. At the same meet mga Mr. Bligh maintained that capital was the overplus oflabour ,and that what working men had produced they ought to have a share of ; and he added that they would never have a reform bill until every man who had not been convicted of crime had a vote. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord proceeded to say that because of the concealment of the Chancellor of the Exchequer he looked with distrust upon the bill The right honourable gentleman would not tell them what kind of constituencies they would have after the passing of the bill, nor would the honourable member for Westminster tell them what the effect of it would be on future legislation. The government were now offering an indignity to the House of Commons ; they were attempting to bend and break down its independence, and to force them to vote for • measure of the effect of which they bad no means of judging, and it seemed to him that the first duty they owed to the country and themselves was to vote against the bill. (Cheers.) Captain GROSVENOR said the noble lord had not persuaded him to adopt the course he had taken, and he felt no more able at the conclusion of his speech than at the commencement to vote conscientiously for the amend ment. (Hear, hear.) He had no wish to disparage the anthorof the amendment, or to impugn the motives of hon. members on that side of the house whose views of their political obligations were at variance with his own. It was to hon. gentlemen opposite that he wished more par ticularly to address himself, for they pointed their argu ments not chiefly to the amendment, but against the principles of the bill which they opposed. The noble lord the member for Ring's Lynn had argued very comprehen sively in favour of the amendment, and he did not suppose • happier thought ever reached the minds of his party than that which induced them to place him in the van of the battle, because ever sinoehe spoke theyhad been enabled without attempting to enforce or illustrate his reasoning to brandish his arguments victoriously in their faces, written upon the original paper, tied up with the same string, and docketed unanswerable." (Laughterand cheers. ) He was disposed to admit that the arguments of the noble lord, so far as they expressed • theory, had not been com pletely answered. (Hear, hear.) He was disposed to go a step further, and admit that upon this point they were unanswerable. He believed that few members of the house would not have preferred dealing with the distribu tion of seats in a bill for the extension of the franchise. (Opposition cheers.) He believed the Chancellor of the Exchequer himself would have preferred that course, but what reason had the government to suppose that a com prehensive measure would be more successful nom than it was in 1860? (Hear, hear.) Was it to be wondered at that the government pursued that course which they thought was most likely to secure them against not only their oppo nents but their sup rters ? (Laughter from the opposition.) When he addressed the house on this subject on a former occasion the discussion was of an elementary and tentative character, but now it assumed the practical shape of • good old-fashioned party contest, the object on one side being political extension, and on the other a monopoly of electoral rights. (Hear, hear.) In saying this he did not impute selfish motives to hon. gentlemen opposite. If be were so inclined he might fairly express his sur prise that they had arrayed themselves against themin such a phalanx of compact hostility, because they were assured by the hon. member for Caine that the effect of the bill would be to relieve those benches of their accustomed occupants. He did not advocate that they should confer the franchise as a right, but he thought they might confer it on those of their fellow-countrymen who had earned it by their pati ence, their culture, and their integrity. (Cheers.) Why, he would ask, did hon. members opposite oppose the bill He could not call them patriots, because they acted as if the spirit of democracy was keeping guard while the bill lay on the table. Surely those hon. gentlemen were in the dark. (Hear.) If they would turn on the light • little stronger what they took to be a spirit would assume the broad, palpable, and familiar form of the British artisan. (Cheers.) The opposition of hon. gentlemen to this bill touched their consistency as well as their patriotism. Of their consis tency he would not complain, and if further reflection in duced them to think that the promises they had made to their leader in that house were unwise, he thought they were quite right in renouncing them ; but let it be for hon. gentlemen on his side of the house who had made the same promises, and who thought their fulfilment wise and expedient, to see to their fulfilment as a matter of public honesty. (Hear, hear.) He did not think the question of public honesty was one that should be lightly dealt with. The right hon. gentleman the mem ber for Huntingdon, in a speech he made the other night, drew • line between the personal and political honour of her Majesty's ministers ; saying that for the one he had the highest respect, and that for the other he had no respect at all. He (Captain Grosvenor) asked was it not rather with their political than their personal honesty that the right hon. gentleman had to deal, and if the right hon. gentleman thought they were men of no political in tegrity, was he doing his duty in discussing this question at all' Ought he not, as soon as he had arrived at that con clusion, to have risen in his place and levelled a direct vote of censure at the government? (Cheers.) He would leave it to the right hon. gentleman in his calmer moments to decide whether the line he had taken was dignified, generous, or fair. He did not propose to enter on the wide field of argument connected with the effect which a further diffusion of the popular element into the constitu tion might be supposed to have upon the foreign and finan cial policy of the country, because, as the hon. member for Exeter had said, those arguments could only rest upon mere conjecture. He hoped the house would bear with him for a moment longer, because if he were to sit down then he should be open to the accusation that he had neglected a form which had been of constant observance among preceding speakers—he had not yet made any reference to the hon. gentleman the member for Birmingham. That hon. gen tleman had referred, in the speech he had made on the first reading of this bill, to the accident of violence as pos sible, nay, probable, if hon. gentlemen opposite did not modify their views and tone with regard to the working classes. He (Captain Grosvenor) attached as little import ance to that threat as possibly the hon. gentleman did to the geographical position of the borough of Caine. He was sorry the hon. gentleman had introduced it, because first, it was an argument which was least likely to have any effect upon hon. gentlemen opposite, who were wedded, partly by conviction, partly by inheritance, and partly by prejudice, to a domestic policy of timidity and The last thing in the world to which they would be likely to listen was the trumpet of menace, however certain in its sound. The hon. member for Birmingham had referred to two speeches delivered by the right hon. gentleman the member for Hertfordshire—one the other day, the other in 1859. In 1859 he (Captain Grosvenor) had the eminent good fortune to herarfrom the lips of the right hon. gentleman one of the most eloquent speeches ever made in that home, and the right hon. gentleman concluded that speech in these remarkable words :—"That the working classes had no better friend than himself ; that no one was readier than he to invest them with such privileges as they were fitted to enjoy • but he asked the house to hesitate before it placed the property and intelligence of the country at the mercy of impatient poverty and uninstructed numbers." Those words were uttered in defence of Lord Derby's Reform Bill, which contained no provision for the exten sion of the borough franchise ; but since they were uttered they had had an illustration such as never occurred before in any age or country, that poverty could be patient even amid cruel and bitter privations, and that numbers were sufficiently instructed to appreciate the action of cause and effect even in matters affecting their daily ex istence. He in his turn humbly and respectfully asked APRIL 28, 18. _ . the "jou pause before . rt three/in t the principle of thi tug of the franchise required a, redistribution of t bill gt th k of thrown'. those people into a state of they were distinct questions ; and be it remembered tali unosam aye, and of (Lacoste* o red at the risk of put- in the case of the bill of 1869, the members for Oxford, t' s /for an indefinite L to that brilliant system shire and the University of Cambridge app rove d of the of and finesse which in the recent past bad redistribution of seats, but opposed the lowering e l t h e beepal such immense good, and the oontinuanoe of which franchise. (Hear, hear.) The refusal to g i ve th e worlds, for ffip future was of such vital importance as respected man the franchise without the redistribution of seats was a d a in i C iall r unt i l i lle would had be learn i. edrefutel. a " 5 e t 1 the power, the resources, and the happiness of this great country. (Cheers.) Mr. B. JOHNSTONE said he could not pay the same fork. (Laughter.) The resistance to the bill 01 Ha van compliment to the boa and gallant gentleman who had driven to the verge of civil war. He trusted that tsatie just est down as that hon. and gallant gentlensanhad paid was not to be repeated. (Hear, haw.) Bet at all s. to the speech of the noble lord the member for King's if this bill did no other good, it would acco 2s t e k - d t W e Lynn. The hon. and gallant gantlet's= had borrowed an the boundaries of party, and draw a sharp lino argument from the speech of his colleague the other mem- those who were advocates for the4 . vileges of thr i a m eall bee for Westminster ; for both had stated that a and those who refused thaw pri • (r oo d gnat great part of the speech of the noble lord was By whim wee Ws bill opposed ? as It by the unanswerable. The honourable and gallant gentleman had middle class! No. Was it by the landed gentry! N o.. however said he was going to show the house bow Was it by the territorial aristocracy as a class! Mess much the noble lord had omitted ; how much further he certainly, no. (Loud cheers.) Let no man tell him th i s ought to have gone, and that, though a sma ll part of his the Dukes of Bedford and Argy ll , and Lobster, the athis speech was true, the larger part was untrue. And the marquis the Minister for Wass, or his noble friend*, hon. add gallant gentleman had further said they must member for Kerry, were not as true aristocrats as the hid not think he was a novice ; be had studied the history of of Derby—(loud cheers)—that they were not as ante ss his country and the politics of the day, and he spoke fortified to preserve the balance of political power as the Oma n * by thatknowledge. The hon. andgallantgentlemanhad said, of the bill. (Hear, hear.) But on the other hand thus 'I am going to make you a confession of faith--e conies- were tones in every class, the working elms as well se the non of a tender nature—it is a confession of a virgin &deo- middle class and the aristocracy, and it was by twi n Um. (laughter.) You must not be surprised if it calls exclusively that the bill was opposed. (Hear, hail forth emotion, or even if I should shed tears . There is Happily w ever for the peace of England, o hm nothing unmanly in shedding tears when there is a noble was no class which as a clam was swa m and virgin affection in question." (laughter.) He (Mr. to refuse the working class its fair share of politi co s Johnstone) had tried to turn a strong light on the object power. (Hear, bear.) He held it, is fact, to be import. of that virgin affection ; and what had he found it was! ble for any chum to plot, combine, or Om* * t o ~,,,,. Why, the hon. and gallant gentleman had fallen in love throw or refuse political rights to any other close (L en d tine with the working cisme& ( Laughter , and " Hear, hear.") cheers.) It was easy to amount for the opposition of There need be no wonder at that, because the hon. and (the opposite) side, but it was not so may to account far gallant gentlemen had given the working men such a the conduct of the liberals who had deserted their colours, character that a man must be made of stone who did not (Hear, hear.) They put it all down to the shame 4 fall in lovigwith them. (Laughter.) The hon. and gallant redistribution. What were they afraid of ? Were they gentleman had said they had culture, patience, and in- afraid that government would eve greater tegrity. He (Mr. Johnstone) had looked for some the liberal party by the mode of redistributioe l r et t r k :t argument in the speech he had just heard. It was It was not necessary for him to my that the Irish Bent full of denunciation and advice in regard to that party h elp ed to carry the first Rdorm Bill, to edam side of the house. They were told they were not to listen mum corporstaons, and to repeal the corn Imes. Am to menace , and that they were extremely good, honour- now, w n another Reform Bill was to be carried, the, able, thick-headed, and stupid people, who were not they were spin—cheers)—acting in concert by the sided capable of appreciating good argumenta—of course such as their English brethren, an united body, with o ne er f oe were offered. by the hon. and gallant gentleman. (laughter.) i solitary and paltry exceptions. (Cheers.) No mat* They were told the working classes ought to have a share what unhappy differences they had had among in the representation. He (Mr. Johnstone) wanted to no matter how sore some might feel as to the th n e re .1 4 know what share they were to have. The bill afforded no I measure* with regard to the social happiness of th ei r aces. solution of that problem, which was put before the try, in thehour of trial and of action theybad never fOnf, house as X, an unknown quantity, and it was I they had never sulked, but they had always shown that left to the house to work out the sum. Let : they were actuated by a common instinct and by as as. the Chancellor of the Exchequer tell them what% was, and swerving devotion to a liberal policy. O'Connell mei se they would work it out. (Hear, hear.) But the Chancellor I boast that while the majority of the members for of the Exchequer wished to catch the house unawares ; and Scotland voted against the Reform i r i g t and the President of the Board of Trade wished to drive 1832, the majority of the representatives for be. them into a corner ; but they did not wish either to be land voted for it, and carried it. (Hear, hear.) The lea, °aught or driven into a corner. (Hear, hear.) The House member for Yougbal had thought proper to remind the of Ominous had • right to know the facts of the awe, and house that her Majesty's government had suspended the ought not to be told to take a leap in the dark. For Lis Habeas Corpus Act in Ireland. That hon, plan,. part he (Mr. Johnstone) refused to discuss the merits of neither spoke nor voted against that supenaion—ffiser, a bill which was no bill at all. The question should be hear) —be was not in his place ;be did not think it lOW considered as a whole, and not in parts. How did it hap- wiry to attend the house when the Suspension Bill ass pen that the bill was brought forward after Easter, under discussion and perhaps he was not aware that the when it was impossible that the question could be party for which he was about to vote censured he satisfactorily settled? They knew that Lord Russell was a Majesty's government for not having owner hear the great reformer, end could not help introducing reform act sad acted with greater rigour. (Hear, hear.) Bet the bills, for he was born under a reform star, he was sent into hon. member must know that during the resent state hide the world reforming. (laughter.) When he was Foreign in Ireland the law officers of the crown exhibited no via. Secretary he tried to reform other countries. He intro- dictive spirit, and this was no appearance of their hill dueled a reform bill for Poland, which was, no doubt, a most ing a brief from one body of Irishmen against awe* excellent bill, but Russia was too strong for him. body of Irishmen. When the tones bad the ma s t i d He then introduced a reform bill for Schleswielfolatein. similar trials their conduct was characterised by great is. Everybody said that was an excellent measure ; but dictiveness. He doubted very much whether this Isi Count Bismarck smashed it. (Hear, hear.) It was not parliamentary exploit of the hon. member for Youth' Lord Russell's object to carry reform bills ; would secure for him a crown of laurels, though it bet his object was to introduce them ; and if be secure for him from the hon. member for Trisity Octhp carried a reform bill his occupation would be gone. and the hon. member for Belford a chaplet 41 (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) They could not have their orange blossoms. (Cheers and laughter.) One word is cake and eat it ; but they could cut it into *dozen slices such the subject of the speeches delivered by members of be as redistribution, extension of franchise, the boundary government during the recess. They had been (mite a question, Sic., and they could eat a slice when their apps - godsend to members on the opposition side of the boa tite wan sharp set. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) This, He read the speeches of the Chancellor of the Pachmer, however, was not likely to be a successful way of meeting and never raid speeches with greater pleasure. He ass the question. He believed the reform question never delighted to find a minister in his position agcpe e g could be settled until that aide of the house was taken towards Ireland a toss so wise, so generous, and so calas into the confidence of the party who tried to carry it. lated to remove from the minds of the Isiah people ths (Cheers.) Although there were on that side of the house impression that it was impossible for them to be mini some members who were opposed to all reform, the feel- with England and at the same time to be prospwna 211 ing was not universal, and any one really anxious to such a minister he was irresistibly drawn, and he beef carry • reform bill would say, as Mr. Cobden Amid, that he might be able to carry' out those principles el p. " Get all the support you can for the measure you have in "liniment and of policy, of wise and generous ocean* hand. Do not do all you can to irritate people." Those which could not fail to cement a union of interests whisk who wished to carry reform must not only conciliate all would be the commencement of glory, and power, tal the support on their own side, which the government prosperity to the empire. (Cheers.) party had not done, but they must also get as much sup- ML A. GRANT said a question had been put co Gel port as they could from moderate men on that (the con- side of the house why had her Majesty's government haw servative) side of the house. (Cheers.) If reform was to duped this bill, and the reply was that it was in be settled it would not be by a conference, but by some- tion of a pledge. But there was no pledge given except t thing like a tacit understanding between the heads of the advanced radicals, and the house was hound to eir both parties in that house as to what was a satisfactory eider it a bill emanating from the hon. member for Bib massure. But no measure could be satisfactory that was minigham. He did not, however, think there was say is not upon the table. (Hear, hear.) The government merit in it on that account, for he had no doubt of tie brought in their Reform Bill like a thief in the night ;it honesty of pur p ose was masked, half its features were disguised, and yet they tended to detract from the dangerous doctrines pre= were surprised that the house did not fall in love with the hon. member it was the courage and honesty of purism the object. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member the Chan- with which he advocated them. His objection to the Issa cellor of the Duchy of Lancaster had said he had heard it member's doctrines was that they were not isle he this stated that they were shuffling their cards under the table. country. The model he set his mind upon in hie= (Hear, hear.) Why, that was what the government were days was the Chancellor of the Exchequer, said be n doing. He (Mr. Johnstone) did not say they meant to if ever he got into parliament to endeavour to imitate his . cheat, but they did not mean to show what (A laugh.) To his mind the right hon. gentleman was the they were doing. (Hear, hear.) That might be con- foremost mind in this country, and the man who mod sidered honourable warfare, but it was not likely possessed on most questions the confidence of the people if to conciliate support. With regard to the working classes, this country. He hoped the right hon. gentleman would they were so numerous a family that if great care were not excuse this apparent fulsomeness, for these sentiments taken in admitting them into the legislature they would were the sentiments of his heart. He thought that the swamp every other class. A baby would tell them this. right bon. gentleman's conduct in reference to this bill wee In his (Mr. Johnstone's) opinion those who had opposed not a) much his own as that he was acted upon by Isms the second reading of the bill deserved well of their pressure from behind, which he thought he wadi country and their party. If that party had allowed them- regret. He objected to this bill because it was ad selves to be dictated to by the government, and the extreme brought forward in a straightforward manner, and bet section of the reformers, between whom and the government cause it bore on it the stamp of batty legillatibi. II a wider chasm existed than that which separated the non-official legislation, and of irresponsible lu ltnlantet government from the opposition (hear, hear) the It was not to be supposed that the government government would become so democratic that theta without some motive the course they had taken ; i the who represented the real mind and feeling of the house had a right to know what that motive was. For his country would not only be banished from office for years, own part he was a reformer, and was not averse eves to a but would cease to exercise that beneficial influence over lowering of the suffrage ; but he objected to any medal the legislation of the country which he believed the with the subject until they had a complete bill before then. moderate liberal party possessed upon the great questions The hon. member for Westminster had often been appealed of the day. (Cheers.) to as an authority on reform, but he found that that Cora' The O'DONOGHUE said the right hon. member for tleman was in favour of admitting females into that been Caine bad yesterday reminded the house that he had nothing to say to the arguments of the Chancellor of the If that were done he (Mr. Grant) should pity the Spahr who would have to maintain order ; for he feared that Exchequer, and he (the O'Donoghne) thought he might hon. members would pay far more attention to the tell the right hon. member for Caine that the house feminine gender than to the business before the hoses. had nothing to say to his arguments. The royal (A laugh.) word of the Sovereign bad several times been pledged Mr. HIBBERT said that in hie borough (Oldham) those to her people that parliament would deal with the question were 107,000 inhabitants, but only 2,200 had votes. Be* of reform, and both sides of the house had declared their that could not be called a representation of the people. CI intention of dealing with the question. The speech of the those 2,200 only 316 were returned as working men ; " right hon . member for Caine was useful as indicating the he was inclined to think that the government had boa fir bias of some hon. members, and as showing how ardent too liberal in their application of that term, not iis 4 reformers on that (the conservative) side of the house could Oldham, but throughout the country. ( 1 •4 cheer a speech that was diametrically opposed to all re- bear.) If he wished for delay he should as form. The various constituencies were watching with tainly vote for the amendment ; but wishing e interest and anxiety the issue of this debate. The inteW- be did to see the ret esentation of the people become a genoe of parliament was ordinarily applied to the solution real thing, he ghoul d cordially support the second raiding• of questions of social well-being or the mate- Judging from the past he should say that the govenuest rial progress of the people, or questions of foreign and would have had no chance of carrying their bill if they bed colonial policy affecting thenational prosperity and honour. introduced into it clauses for the redistribution of seta. It was now performing • more serious duty, involving the The people of this country were too reflecting • ropig. solution of the question of the government of the country, they read too many newspapers, and they were too wits' and upon the result would depend the future legislation of awake to be deluded into the idea that the amenimest the country. They were all aware that the object of was intended to further the cause of reform. Moto government was the promotion of the happiness of the over, he should like to have the terms of the people, and when he came to consider the various amendment a little more defined. What did it mean forms of governnent he owned to a strong partiality by the word "settlement!" Did it mean s settle* to that form for which mankind in all ages bad meat in a conservative or in n liberal sense ? It seemed exhibited a preference, commensurate with the to him that a settlement which would he satisfactory to the growth of intelligence and civilisation. (Hear, hear.) opposition could hardly be so to his side of the hoes& It was unquestionably true that both absolute monarchy (Hear, hear.) Mr. Hibbert having quoted largely hew and the ride of an aristocracy became distasteful and un- the electoral returns, in order to expose the fallacy of the bearable as the mind of a nation became developed by statement that the working classes possessed and r e 6 education, and that men sought relief in such systems as share in the constituencies of the large towns, and teas the those of the United States and of England against class number of electors had increased as rapidly as the P°P l . ll. monopoly of power. He could not understand how the tion, said that the seven towns in which the zo tu Z right hon. member for Hertfordshire arrived at the con- classes had more than 50 per cent, of the voters elusion that democracy was the form of government best nixie conservatives, one liberal conservative, and only two suited for the youth of a nation. History led them to an liberals. If, therefore, the country was exposed to a°; entirely di ff erent conclusion. (Hear, hear.) The youth peril from the bill, the danger seemed to be lest it mon o ~,i of a nation was the period when government would best j hand overits destinies tothe tion.gentlemenopposite.( ll elf•l fit one or a few vigorous hands, but when that nation grew j Since the Reform Bill of 1832, the great proportion of per older its repugnance to an absolute monarchy or an i sons added to the list of voters consisted of the occuPwfe oligarchy soon became perceptible. The moat highly lof houses from 10f. to 30/., the numbers so added being civilised nations of the continent longed for a share of , 371,000 out of 577,000. They consisted for the most part political power, and it was idle to infer that the of small shopkeepers ; yet having a preponderance of tht working classes of England felt differently because at pre-lnumber of votes it was rarely if ever that they returned sent they were at no pains to disclose their inclinations. ! persons to parliament who were taken from their own (Hear, hear.) Successive administrations had recognised ' class. He denied altogether that if the franchise was now the desire of the working man by the introduction ofj enlarged the members returned would be found to measures ; but care should be taken that such a measure devote themselves to the consideration of questions arising was a reality, not a sham. (Hear, hear.) The Reform' out of trades unions or disputes about wage'. Bill of 1832 did peat things for the m iddle clames, but little The battle upon those questions would have to or nothing for the working classes, whose case her Ma. be fought without the wall" of parliament, while jesty's government was now taking in hand. He believed the general advancement in education and mates" that the working classes would be perfectly satisfied with' wealth during the last thirty years was such em the bill on the table—(bear, hear)—and as prevention eminently to fit the working classes for dischan a l was better than cure, he hoped that it would receive ac- the duties of constituents. On this point he On ceptance from the house. (Hear, hear.) For his part, the recent pamphlet of Dr. Watts, for the mass he felt bound to do all he could for the bill, which he pose of showing the large capital which the working clamed believed had been introduced by the government in • possessed in their investments in co-operative stores, build' genuine and sincere spirit of liberality and pa- mg societies, savings banks, and trade union subscriptions. triotism. (Loud cheers.) The Reform Bill of 1832 was He considered there was no just reason for excluding the based on giving political privileges to a class which (lid 71. occupier from the exercise of the franchise, and et not then possess them, and the bill of the government was pressed a hope that the time would soon come when, in now opposed on the same principle, the opposition being of the words of Burke, the Commons House of Parliament precisely a similar character. It proposed an extension of would be returned by the commons of England. (Chen'.) the franchise, and for that reason it was opposed. (Hear, j Sir M. BEACH supported the amendment, and retorted hear.) In fact, the franchise was the real pivot of reform. on the so-called liberal party the taunt that the compere!: A man might object to the redistribution of seats and still five" were opposed to any lowering of the franchise. . 15 be a reformer • but a man who refused to enf r anchi se th e seemed to him that the object of the measure WaS to give 1 working classes could only be classed sa an anti-reformer. the whole preponderance of political power to one putt' (Hear, hear.) What the people wanted was a share of po- cular class of the community. The government asked them litical mower. Let them agree on that point, and the rest to plan this bill first and then promised to intbduce e ." was only a means to an end. The question arose, were bill for the redistribution of the seats ; hut the they all equally desirous to extend the franchise to the supporters of the bill in that case would not have the working classes? He believed not, and that from the die- opportunity of explaining their views and reasons to their inclination to do that arose all the opposition to the bill. constituents, and acting with that political honour and (" Hear, hear," and cheers from the opposition.) Yet all dignity which they would maintain if they voted for the the speeches that had been made in support of the amend- amendment. Great objections had been urged on all wwlee, " went of the noble lord the m em b er f or Cheater had been to different parts of th e bill, and he contended that J peaches against the loweringof the franchise. ( Loudcrles of measure for the redistribution of seats would in any w ay. ' Hear, hear.") Why nobody could Wertthnt the lower. cure the radical defects of this measure, which the (Mem 111 ! i i !~ ~p Ll t i I~ ~d~ 1,, Ul -r-r! ° MEW'