The Express. — London, England, 1849-03-27 00:00:00

of the people. When their lordships were called upon to review sad pass judgment upon the conduct of b lies sesemblies, that turned to him a p no less semi than inexpedient. (Hear, hear.) illuterto he be lieved that every succeeding administration is this 'matey bad endeavoured, in their mingemstat of the coloake. to exercise their power with the anima is partiality and justim, to *ow so leaning to owe party or the other, but as tar as pew ile.c to moderate the names cr the politieal mum which too Ire guest , y took plow. Bat when the advisers of the crown had sot thought At to ma trel overrule the decisions of reproseetatsve bodies, Ow were to be celled spas to ticked their soadmat, and to urge !Maus for not *owing to nerreise that authority, then it was hardly possible with any mama of predeses and dis cretion on their party to avoid skim themselves up with tie digresses, d one or other of the comedies' parties . Whim free institutions prevailed, all 'umlaut mond that =metals would take place. We knew from the earliest that each was the esse. Bat U the divisions which Is tie eeknies were te be extended here, and sf the rival pettier in this country were to adopt Menai pslides on the one side sad also on the other, look at tiro result. Suppose a change administratioa muffed in such a case, seed sup pose the sable lord (S'asky) oasis succe eded to the Coloaialsofilm, wee it possible that, adopting thew pollees, gad trucking the power so entrusted to him, the WM m adame would be repored in him uif he were entirely free from that political bias ? Again, if he (Hee Grey) were compelled by the arguments of the noble lord to state folly his opiaine with referent to a minority of the colonists, wee it possible that mks or less he should not be miring himself up with*. party views of these individuals 1 There fore, he °widowed it had hitherto bees a wholesome rule, sad a rule that he was now terry to see infringed, that the ems of party warfare in the oinks should not be fought over agate In that house. (Hear, hear) Ho had been led farther than he intended on this point He wee adverting to the preetkal proof afforded by the pumas state of the colonies of the rukrios of those general pringlidm of administration he had laid down ; but the noble bed MI ailed on his to look lot road Nova Scotia sad la Moped Canada. Deeply did be regret to hear from the aside kW VIM measures were now in progress in Canada for the estatmetisa of those who took part in the rebellion in that maim for the noble hid ought to know, if he con salted the map desemrts on this subject which had reached COestry. tkat thole by whom them measuru Were pre mised had utterly repudiated that construction of them. Lord STANLEY said that he knew the contrary from Ma eda dommesen Earl GREY observed that different documents must have reeehsd the noble lord to thus which had been received at the Celoodal-ollee. Besides, the ncble lord ought to recollect that the resolutleas on the subject had not yet Dm passed. - - Lent STANLEY mid he bad seen the amendments which had bees moved epee the . resolution., and also a list of the ides; and be baled h is information was not later than that received by the noble earl. Ban GREY stated that the votes of the assembly had not been met to the Coloniel.office, but orders had been issued this in fatten • list of the votes should be regularly tran► mined to this muntry. rut it eertaialy did not appear, from the latest WWW•paper he had seen, that the resolutions were mod. The emmedments were considered, bat all the new Wilms had net bus discussed, and • bill founded upon them had not bum lebeimed. Most undoubtedly the bill had net ism modiseed ha committee; and, therefore, for the *ehla bed tow he that house, and prematurely, beiweths MO had here dear considered or disemeed, I. put men •a sopiesestatlenieblek was utterly di s claimed by iv andieser was a emu of premed lex deeply iejudous to the ormecy. (Ohms.) Its dodos en ' irely disclaimed the eatendm el rewarding MINS ce reb•Mos. What devoid isse a litall =thok geogeg remonstration a bill wee wed inym to ompemate thou who bad imaged bate the rebellion,• awl the nubby lord woe awes. did dieTtZ was pissed wide a clause extending compeemlim te Arne whose property had been destroyed by the mieeleMie, mist a belief that they were the abettor of the sabeillen. Ie authors further stated that they .trod, .yaws hAt measure, believing that it was altogether MIN& bet Any thought that if adopted in cannon judos and hessety it would be asesatary to apply the tame rale to Lower Canada. They also rid that their predates:is, the late council, had hued a commission to inquire Me the extent of the losses sustained, and that they had been 'appealed w officially, to ascertain who were to be secluded from moving any compensation on the ground that they bad been participators en the rebellion. The answer to this appeal was, tbat the decision of legal tribunals was the only Met to which they could look for determining who were rebels and who were not. (Hear.) He would not go into the history of the rebellion ; bat this he might observe, that jt was the opinion of many that as the French Conadisameere at present loyal to the crown, their loyalty ought not to be cooled or discouraged by a stsr chamber in gutsy Matituted now. He would also say that looking at the speeches made sad the revlutions proposed, there wasnothing enrestouble or monstrous in the doctrine propounded in Canada. Lord Elgin, who at present hell the gov.rnment of that country, whom, when he was selected for that govern ment, he (Earl Grey) hod never seen, and with whom he had no connezioa whatever, whom he only knew by the reputation he had left at the Cclonisl-office for his very able and ea rgetio disposition of the affairs of Jamaica, and whom, from that knowledge of him alone, he had advised the Guess to appoint to the government of Canada—(hear, bear)—of each a men be would say that ia that government be had acted with such uniform judgment and discretion, combieed with so much ability, prudence, and moderation, that though be bad abstained from recording anything dß dilly about this incomplete transaction, he (Earl Grey) had ✓eek unlimited confident.* is him as to leave no doubt that he had good reasons for pursuing the course he had adopted. (Hear, hear.) He (Berl Grey) bail al ready said that the state of things in Canada wee • justifica tion of the policy he had teen endeavouring to enforce. This was proved by a private letter he had received some time ego from Lord Elgin. Ater polluting out venom dangers and difficulties apprehended frogs the receipt of the sews of the French revelation, the late events in Ireland, and the efforts of the Irish sympa•hisen, as they were called, in the United States, his lordbip went on to my that there was no tar du revelation in Canada ; and that, although there had been ems Irish excitement in the country, the people gene rally had protested against the introduction of Irish pikes moss them. But was this all ? By no means. The hem would recollect the J0(11141011 exer cised years ago by Papineau In Csneda ; but now that individual, in moving various amendments to the addn et and making speeches, one of them three hours in duration, had been defeated by an overwhelming majority. he having obtained only three votes out of • house of 78 members. (Applause.) When it was harm in mind that Peplum', if he bad proposed amendments of the ease etta raster some time ego, would have commanded • majority, particularly in as ressealily elected like that of Caned., epos the broadest basis of repenentation, he (Earl Grey) thought be had a right to mime that this was • satisfactory prom of the practical effects of the system which had been adopted. (Hear, hear.) He would now come to the cm of Mr. Fair beaks ; and he freely and at sea acknowl edg ed that this gentleman had been somewhat hardly dealt with. But he had to state, in the fir.t place, that Mr. Fabbasks up to the wet id of being appointed trimmer had taken a may Mies part in Nova Semis politics in oppo sites' to those in power, and that he eyespot a little obnoxious to thou who as esesied to the administration of affairs. The noble lord (Snaky) had stated that Mr. Fairbanks had re. caned the assimace of the crown that his office was not to be taken from him ; and, certainly, it that were so, it would be unjust if he were removed f anything but misconduct. But sooty material pciat had been omitted. Mr. Fairbanks's mventment to the plus was confirmed by the cove. I What was the nature of that eppointmeat ? Load Falkland stated in his deepatch that the temsurees salary was smelly voted by the lmislature eel that although no redaction had been =de in it 'be several years, yet that from time to time pregeigillall its diminution had been submitted. It appeemed, thee, that at any moment his salary could be withellawn ; end, as Mr. Fairbanks had been an active member d the assembly, thoroughly acquainted with what had pared, be must have' been perfectly aware of that fact. But this wes not all. The noble lord (Stanley) had written • derpolde, in which be said—" I should entirely approve of the efeebaest of a law by the legislature of Nova Scotia for excluding from the House of Assembly all persons engaged in the direct collec tion of public moony;" and it so happened that in Nova Seethe Wm were two financial officers in the council, who were also members of the Assembly of Lower Canada. Lord Falkland wrote, in reply, that he feared the assembly weaM set part with their power, but that he thought he maid in part effect the object in view. Now, as Mr. Tubbed' was filly eopt&eutt cf all these en eumetatices, the peewit assembly of Neva Scotia ato be fully justified in saying Amanita& had fair erar of the the term apes whistles accepted ems. Besides, itwu stated in tbe slum of the Obsession which took p'ace relative to his ' fie_. thew Melee valeasity gained the they !Odd esealer Ms slam es • peli.W. one. He (Earl _ Grey) felt ezbemedi that Mr. Fairbanks had, in the exercise zi=sjsd.slMg right, presented the pretest petition, I hid compelled these statements to be made weep raludenßy, whisk it was to bi feared worldgreedy injure his future prospects. His ease, how ever, hid not yet been finally decided, and until be (Earl Grey) received the whole 0. , the papers, be could not say _what a dvice he would give her Majesty on the sub ject. (Hear, bear.) Haying thus explained the whole of the eireunistancee, he believed he had now 'hewn that Mr. Fair banks bad practically held his office at the will of the assem bly, and that the crown had not opposed the power of con tinuing him in the enjoyment of his salary. If, having heard these statements, their lordships should think that he (Bari Guy) had acted erroneously, he should deeply regret such a decision ; but, after haviote most deliberately coon &Ted the whole subject, he could only say that if he were again pieced in a similar situation_, he should repeat the in stivetioss he bad already given. (Heir, hear.) lard BROUGHAM begged to correct a very enestemi Impression pervading the public mind as to the ends.t of his noble friend opposite (Earl Grey). A perpetual clamor was raised aga inst him upon the ground that he bad gives all sppointmenta to memben of his own family ; but Hut was very unhanded. (Elm ) The GIMMICK of Jambe woe named Grey, and he was conmantly called " one of the Gory fauffg," bat it so happened that he was related to the noble earl in the same manner as he was related to him (Lod Brougham), namely, through th e i r ant " nu t s . ILenei Mester.) He was sent out by Ltrd Liverpool's and iced Cu tle re.g'b'e government, in 1811, to Calcutta, and from thence he went to Barbados, and afterwards to Jambe. But while he was most maxim to do justi:e to the noble earl opposite egainst charges wh*.oh he knew to be unfounded, he must say with respect to the pre stet can that, having listened with attention to the defence the noble earl had made, his opinion was that Mr. Fairbanks had been exceedingly ill-treat. d. The defence amountede4 i r . e to this, that the act was that of the nativity of the l tin Assembly, and that the governor was no way respon sible. Why, the salaries away of the fonetioneries in this countsy depeuded is the mats way as the nasal vote of the Hesse a/Common The eabelen of setae of the judge" of the Admiralty Courts wen Imbabd Y the navy estimates, hot what would b: sold amain"' He late Sir W. Scott and the t Sir S. net lathiptluta whoa Me Fairbanks be a mere warn —tesieg removed, sr their lambs missed, became • of pramement Mel pins and the panty whisk he empmeeril kigipenal to he la a mino rity, heolead sommemer4 amejority pellement ? There 11011111111111k7 rad of hb hind's (Lord Stanley's) speech (mad be haw sell*, el tie ass ..seen what be had heard that day) Rpm wile be wall top a word. Hs could not but feel that then wail have been gnat injustice in distaise ivg one lounclad magistrates without any muse assigned. f i r e e sa m.) Tsis hei assayed to be a still more important of duty than the Ober. It eou'd not be pleaded in this ease that dbe act was that of the majority of the assembly. On the con•rary, it was the act of the governor, who bad taken upon himself at once to dismiss 100 'magistrates who had, he presumed, the adieu, police duties and administration of criminal justice whiff' devolved upon magistrates in this country, and who, besides, had esclusivejuriedistion in all civil suits under 101., and to whom, as he was Wormed, fell four-fifths of the whole civil beano of the colony. This did apwar to him to be one of the most violent messureethet bad been adopted in any colony, and the conequenee would be, if the same system were to as wend with every clangs of government, to convert the magistracy into politicians and political traders, than which nothing could be more fatal to the aim"- nistratioa of justice. What would be soli in this country if • Lord Chancellor, on coming into ogles, wen t r combine with the Home Secretary to strike oat of the commission magistrates la the proportion of 100 in every 250,000 inhabit ants—what would be said if between 7,000 end 8,000 magis trates were summarily dismissed in one morning ? (Hear, hear.) Without gran cause, a justice of the peace ought never to be dismissed ; and that principle, which was ' admitted and acted upon in this country, should be equally upheld in the colorise It certainly appeared to him that the affairs of thot colony could not be nor dered in • satis factory state when each things could !radon. Without pe nal* to lay doWn general nisi for colonial government, but approving generally of Lord Metealfe's despatch, this be would say, that unless the government at home did exercise net a virtual and general, but a oonstant practical and vie: lent ruperiateadmice, and as effectual control over the local assemb—if they allowed it to be seiginet that a governor was erred on by the party in power—the tarty commendine a majority at the time, either in his assembly or his council —that that was to be a sufficient answer to all complaint', and that the government at home was never to take the pert of the sainority ( which might be tuned into a majority in • few weeks, or even days), oppressed probably by the over powering will of the majority—if such•eoarcewae nottobe reused andeheeked by the government at home, ke saw in it a constant scene of the grossest injustice and tyranny, and of greatest defter to the due administrittien of justice. Earl GREY observed that the number of 100—the magistrates whose saws wen struck off the 16t—was side up by including parties who were dead, some of them years before, and whose names were struck out as a matter of course—out of the 100, probably there ware 40 dead men. This showed how imperfect was their knowledge of the facts, without which it was lap enible far them to form a correct judg ment, or to come to • conclusion that should be just to the governor and the colony. There was this differ ence between the case of the judges and Mr. Fairbanks, is so far as the government was romeased—that they had the power to appropriate the territorial revenue% to the payment of the former it their Wain were not paid ; but, is the ewe of Mr. Fairbanks, his salary had coned by the act of We useably ; and, however hard it might have been to that gentlemaa, the crown potent no power to enutinse the payment. With regard to Sir C. Orey, the Govern' of Jamaica, though he was certainly not appointed on that ground, being of the same name*, he believed he was of the same family, but the relatiorehip was so distant that he knew not what it really was. (A laugh.) There could be no doubt either that Sir C. Grey had been • warm supporter of Lord Melbourne's government. Lord STANLEY said that it did not at all alter the prin ciple whether the umber of magistrates disatiased was one hnadred or *hay. The petidnn was then ordered to lie on the tab!e. Thtir lordahipe adjourned at hall-past eight o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—HONDAT, MAitcn 26. The Brl4w to the chair et 4 ether& PRIVATE 151:71UNIAL REPORTS CONSIDERED.— Odd; irabratibritire and Rerwiefortire Raids Amendlerst THIRD REAUINO.—New Rams Port ad Tidersor (Aidadoent) BIM PUBLIC BUSINIBIL BECOND RILADING&—Pr (Inland) BM. - - —yetis); Ifseinalfatini; linvisation;iikenalty; Kr. J. EVANS (*se Est herd). At the loop. this ef settheedes putts.—life. J. OWENILL. Item Nom her es sawalmsst (Rae peer kw ; sad kat Lkewtels. ..sle et the egos of Seraterkess sesp.—Mr. 01X11111. hem laseeeter, wenn say altered= d the sentsaties Iwo—f. ICSAGHTEN. boa Si maelf . Ankfm. soli Se site ehl.—As HON. NSW" aping weer Amnon of t: l ookstestass.—Wr. PATlW"hsea lms =rll in *Malty. Sw identes to eethream.--ttr. TOW NELL, ken Damp" for d r . liberaties of Si Rae. Nr. lines —Mr. P. @QOM. As *Mesa. he a law is se ams s kst Mans bleur.—kr. LUSH:MO=I i m bov i kr the askilimest elbow wisides—Sk km at Si sweedlstics of the dlemei ermls.-11r. sewed alms Its Si ad plies blemilemi ante . —Skr. ll 4. l S til t i a nde ftui lassedelses. In the ems alket.-41r. NEINDIGATE. eon lir. =l:t ai lb s zongiuskas wary esta.-111r.BAINIS, frau NY& tar She wise elks owners ef tewaasses.—Mr. COODCI. Ilessa a gine he kw weenti of Ifesharats, trow kelwkette. sad ether enws% kr a esdasdes el Si Mim wini expatiates/a—Kr. 101111116 lo two time e dui Orslitlforri. aim 111L-11r. 0111011111, kaa pese Wm alms at r4spach Pegier, awl sem sear beer kr the Or ge f icis ONlS. bah Newel * skal d . spiel the Ma la dd. Of 1110M.Peass Mearreaoresa. btr. NET. NOUN. den Iseher. to wave kr auk* seeredtw to Leone late the shas dike pips seaseetastses ef Omit Velleis end md, end the easalkaf the kw effeelegthstsroalsedes. Comer llarsa—Str.llllllll. to Revs (des out sessail) he leave Is beiag la skill to Mellish linked bonds is seta r smp the es lay Nen k lea el the mesklestee. lassaseasenaa Esserses.--Ifr.ll. KILN'S, as es sarahrest in all MOW ellk. °ebbs. it Ibusday sot, Wi us. • hM k dedrelie that woks &odd nee he kir see whit brio so. eseseeenis ae pereant war and lissiehed; is, where this is set teas. la iskse the eenksies poles* es este I sin t i es Mr s fell seseldseadesel the eels they see abut is wag sod MeV feta el Neb. din funnons 11. IMXIII. sew Direrr. sadthe stenties of Os bens be the trialasest at *mks erkeisels. to the limmtessis tessested with juvenile wise Is thls soantrr. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. F. FREW R wawa whether the Rats is Aid Bill would be prosseded with that evening, sad what was the latest hour at which it would ba taken. Lord J. RUSSELL —I do not propose to bring on the Rate is Aid Bill later than ten o'clock. lithe committee ea the Navigation Bill be concluded before that hoar, I propose to bring it on. I may, perhaps, take this opportu nity also to state, that I propose to take the Navigation Bill this evesing, and to go through calamine.. I propose that the report should be considered on Monday next, and that the third reading should be taken after Rester. With respect to the Rate in Aid Bill, I beg to state that, if it is not pro. ceded with tonight, I propose to primed with it on Wednesday, and to go on with it en Friday till the bill ha. been read • second time. I should propose, on Friday, that the house go into committee of the whole buss, for the purpose of moving that • sant not exceeding 100,0001. be advanced on the credit of the rate in aid for the distressed unions in Ireland. (Rear.) If the committee of the whole hones should agree to that resolution, I should propose afterwards that it be inserted as 'Oedema in the Rate in Aid Bill. I likewise beg to state that I shell propose, on Monday next, that on Thursday, the 19th April, sad every alternate Thursday after that day, order et the day shall have "preadittice of notices. I beg likewise to give notice that, as Wednesday seennight, I shall propose that the house at its tiling do silken= to Monday, the 16th April. Mr. STAFFORD.—Does the noble lord aim to propose the vote of 100.0001. ea Friday if the debate on the wee d reedieg of the Rate in Aid Bill be not then concluded ? Lord J. RUSSELL.—I will take the second reeding et the bill before the vote ia 'mantes; bat I will put it for Friday at present. Mr. ANBTET.—WiII the noble Iced state whether he mesas to take any vote in supply to night ? Lord J. RUSSELL.—I believe we shall require • vote on moat with reference to the ordnance. That is absolutely necessery. Mr. BLANSY Mimi if the government could state the time when sty bill would be introduced relating to the sani tary condition of the metropolis. Sir o,oltElf was understood to reply in the anode.. MUTINY BILL AND MARINI MUTINY - BILL. These Ms leaving pawed through theusittee, Mr. RIME asked if they watained any new dawn. Mr. F. /LADLE said be believed there were none in either. NAVIGATION BILL. The hones that west into committee on Lila bill, IL,. natent. is the chair. On dame 9, Mr. 0. SANDARS in.. to move an amendment, of which • had given notice ; bet The CHAIRMAN istormed him that it could only be moved sea separate clause. On the 19th (dams being put, _ _ • Mr. RICARDO expreMed a hope that the retaliatory camels would be re-oonsideeed or withdrawn. Mr. LABOIJCHERE said the question had already been fully argued. He coaceived that the power given by this gigue was not a mere formal me, but one which was abeo lately necessary. Any compolmey system of reciprocity would be wholly abortive ,• but to net it on the dbcretion of the executive wee a mint desirable sr insure. Mr. BANDARS said be bad supported both the present bill and the bill of last session ; but he could not altogether approve of these retaliatory gauges. He agreed wi.h the principle of the bill, end considering that the country was committed to the principles cf free-trade, he thouibt it best that they should be carried out. He supported the bill, bemuse sea British merchant, he 'l apin and rgaia the inconvenience of the present w. (Hear hear.) He bad frequently purchased corn In the north of Europe and elsewhere, which he was obliged to keep at great expense sad inconvenience, in consequence of the illikultyaf getting Rain* vessels to esnvey it. He bad as Isar that the suritime supremacy of this country would be endangered by the present boll, because predictions of that kind were made twenty-three years aro, when the first alteratiose were made in the navigation laws, whereas the THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 27; 1849. result had keen that a large increase in British shipping had Wren plea. Mr. HBRRIES said that the first clause which r: peeled the 'Rioting act, end the present clause, which was in the nature of a sareguard against the gadget of ether powers, constituted the canoe of the present imam Nothing showed more clearly tie nteemity of some provision &picot the effect of the first clause than the number of prepositions which had been ma le with • view to its modification. There was the proposition of tie hoe. member for Kilmarnock. the preposition of the government, sad the intended proposition of his right hon. friend (Mr. Gladstone). He regretted that his right bon. friend should have absteined from makirg his proposition to the house, because he thought that there were some persons or some party in the house who would be dis posed to make of his proposition and of himself a tool, for the purpose of stopping the progress of the bill. He could moos his right hon. friend that he was greatly and grievously mistaken if he supposed that he or any person with what he had the honour of comma Leafing, bad the least intention of stratagem. or of a deign to involve hie right bon. friend in a atemma with regard to his vote on the third leaning of the bill. It was not their eject to impede or obstruct the bill by any factious oppcsi tion, but they should continue to give it a peremptory open and direct opposition, because they believed it to be an lit advised and pernicious measure. With regard to the present clause, he felt bound to Hula attached no importance whet ever to it. It was a mere homage paid to the principle of reciprocity. (Hear.) It wee indicative of a feeling that there ought to be some such thing. It would do no good, and it might possibly effect a great deal of evil. That part of the bill which bad been withdrawn was the only pert of it b which they might have made a tolerably good bargain with the United States. If they got the coasting trade of the United States in exchange for tt sir own coasting trade, that would here ton an advantageous bar gain. But the United States would not agree to that, and he feared that this was one of the mein reasons why that part of the bill was given up when the colonial trade, wh:eh the United States had been for centuries endea touting to obtain, was given up; when the long voyage, not from America only, but from every other part of the world, which they bad hitherto so jealously kept to themselves, was resigned, what had they left to offer to the United States in exchange for the emigre - 1d mtrictioss which she imposed on the trade of this country ; they left themselves nothing to keep from the United State', in case that country refused to mike them any return for the concessiosa given by the present bill. The United States acted in • very different spirit. for in • despatch written by Mr. Clay to Mr. Ganglier, he aye, " whatever commercial privileges are granted to forei g n states by the United States, they WO blinded on equivalents we hold out the principle of fair reciprocity to all nations. We never have granted, nor do we profess to bestow, commercial boons." (Hear, hear.) He must my, that the statesmen' of the United States acted more wisely than they in that respect. (Hear.) Mr. M'GREGOR said he should wish to leave out this clause altogether, but he knew it was a necessary one in the bill as it stood. If one reason more than another determined him to support the hill, it was that he thought every port in Greet Britain 'mould be open, free of restriction, to the United Stater, and that every port in the United States should be open to England. Washington bad instructed Mr. Adams and Dr. Franklin to propose such • policy to the government of this country. Mr. Pitt brought in a bill to meet the view of the American government, and, though it passed the first reading, it was afterwards abandoned, in coneecienWea change of ministry, who followed a different Poloy • Mr. ROBINSON proposed to strike out the words "if the shall think fit," in the 33rd line. Ho objected to leave any discretionary power of retaliation in the hands of the go- vernment in those eases where foreign states imposed any duties en British chipping, after the concessions contained in this bill were made. Mr. LABOUCHERE apprehended that if the words " it shall be lawful for her Majesty " remained, these words would render it imperative on the executive government to carry the principle into effect. Therefore he did not object to the Urea of the motion ; but as the amendment involved the whole principle of reciprocity, which bail already been fully discussed, he hoped the hon. gentleman would not press it. (Hear.) Mr. OLADSTONE doubted whether the doctrine of the right hon. gentleman was sound doctrine. He apprehended that for parliament to say it shall be lawful for her Majesty to do so and so was not a binding or obligatory power. In regard to the crown, he certainly heard it laid down that they did net carry a binding authority. (Hear, hear ) He could assure his right hon. friend near him (Mr. Harries) that when he spoke of his in tention, and of the intention of bor. gentlemen who acted with him to nes hies (Mr. Gladstone) and his amendment as an instrument or tool, in order to deka the bill, his meaning was not in the slightest degree inconsistent with Ds as' open and straightforward opposition to it. (Hear,. . i., However hon. gentlemen might differ from his right non. friend respecting the bill, no one bad a right to complain in the slightest degree of the time, mode, or de gree, in which he opposed it. Having proposed a plan in dependently of his right ben. friend and those who opposed the plan of the government, all he said was that they in tended to Make use of it for the purpose of des • that math» to which they were so opposed, and they • perfect right to do so consistently with parliamentary honour. Mr. ROBINSON laid he should like to know the opinion of her Majesty's Attorney-General as to the 'filet of the words whisk he proposed to strike out of the clause. The ATTORNEY-GENEB.AL thought that the inset , ties of the words, " if she shell think At," would remove all doubt tem the clause. The legal construction of the words " k shell he lawful," would be held to be compulsory, ac. swain le the context. But as there might be a doubt in that uses, the words " it shall be fit" were tutroduced for the purpose of removing the doubt. Bir F. THICSIGER had no doubt at all, that if the words were omitted the clause world still he a discretionary clause, and nothing else. After a few words from Mr. Bryant, the clause as amended wss agreed to. Clauses 20 and 21 were also agreed to. Is clause 22 enabling the queen to reduce differential duties in certain cuts, Mr. WAWN proposed to insert in line 32 the words " dot& dues." Mr. LABOUCHERE said that at present her Majesty was enabled to reduce light duties, harbour duties, and some other charge in favour of a nation wi.h whose government she had formed a treaty. There were some countries, par ticularly Spain and Brea, which were quite willing to remit such duties, though the 7 would not enter into a con. venti-n for that purpose ; and the object of the clams was to cbviate the necessity for a treaty. Mr. WAWN did not see why dock dues should not be inserted as well as harbour duties and light duties. Mr. LABOUCHERE thought they did not stand on the mine broad and national footing. The simple object was to authorise the doing of that under import regulations which was a' present only done under treaties. Mr. WAWN observed that the crown had given away a part of its property at Hull in order to secure dock accom modation, and it now received 80,0001. a year. Mr. HENLEY thought this clause opened a very large principle. If parties were liable to be injured in their pn vats rights by means of conditions entered into by the go. cerement, some general law on the subject ought to be la traduced. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that under the 29 Geo. I ll.e. 54, the government were liable to pay all additional dues receivable on account of ships which cams under the fa voured nation clause. Under the clause now proposed the same thing might be done without treaty. Mr. GLADSTONE said that one point involved in the clause seemed to be the uremia& of the public burdens. In the cue of Spain and Brasil, the quantity of shipping would be so email as to be hardly worth considering. He wished to raise a point of some importance, though it was one of form. A doubt had occurred to his mind whether the words of this clause were sufficient to enable her Majesty to direst charges to be laid on the Consolidated Fund. He weal selimit the queetion to the Chairman. He thought it would be assenary to move a preliminary resolution in a committee let the whole house. - The CHAIRMAN said that the point had already co I eared to him, sad he was not prepared at that moment to say whether the clause would be serf eeimt without a previous resolution. Mr. LABOUCHERE said the clause had really no neon. easy connelion with the bill. He would, however, with draw it for the present, arid U he found hereafter that he weld do fro he would brie, it ferward again. He might frossider it aecessary to take a resolution of the whole house. The clause war then withdrawn. Clauses 23 to 28 inclusive were then agreed to. On claim 29, providing for a declaration of British owner ship, beieg proposed, Mr. GLADSTONE said this appeared to him a very questionable provision. If a vessel were owned by subjects of different countries in common it could not be registered. He did not see why the ride should be so stringent. To him It appeared quite sufficient if the majority of the shares were held by British subjects. Mr. M. GIBSON said that practically such a provision would DO doubt be evaded. The shares of the Steam Nati ratios Company were owned by subjectsof various countries. Then war , indeed, an *abetment to prevent foreigners from bottling shares in a British vowel ; but the difficulty was got over by the feet that the company was a corporation, and therefore one and indivisible. It was, however, a great anomaly that while all the shares in the Steam Navigation Company might happen to be held by foreigner., a foreigner could not hold a hundredth share in a British brig or sloop. Mr. HUTT felt satisfied that British ships were owned to a considerable extent by foreigners. The clause if passed, would be extensively evaded. His chief objecti on to it was that it would 'restrict the market far the sale of British ship ping. He thought foreigners should be allowed to hold shares in British vessels, provided the larger proportion were held by native owners. Mr. LABOUCHERE believed they were all agreed that a vestal which sailed nada the character of a British ship should be, as far as possible, British owned. (Hear, hear.) He believed no practical inconvenience would arise from the insertion of the clause. By attempting to define what pro pardon of the owners should be British, they would get into difficulties , . He was quite prepared to coaster any amend ment which might be suggested, though he had none to suggest himself. Mr. W. BROWN thought it would be quite sufficient to give • British character to a vessel, if the captain and the mate were Briish. Mr. LABOUCHERE admitted that any provision which might be paned would be greatly evaded. Still he thcught that a vessel, hoisting the British flag, and entitled to Bei- dal protection, should be, as far se possible, British in chi nester. The cameo was then agreed to ; as was also clause 33. Mt. G. SANDARS proposed to move a ,lease to the fol lowing egad: Whereas it is expedient that ladoesserds be held out to foreign tams, pine Willi& awls Is foreign ports an the same footing on I rma the .area of sash foreign states are assail la tin ports debts mastery; le it sassed, that, in ease it shall, at the exphatices of thi pni o e frala 'Wang of this set be made to appear to her tha antiarceals are subject Is lay hales country to any Stilkgrinli4ll,lWropies la want they may Innen or es to airy mav import into or export lima such country, to which the alas( ma Isegas into see not mutant is this country, it than thin he anal kr bet Majesty In counril to blame nett prohibitions or rastriesheanaon the ships of such as osantry sa me all plies the ass n of such 'cantles as nearly as pailible the balm is Br ports as that an which British ships are placed to the ports of sash country. Mr. L kBOUC MERE said the object of the hon. gentle. man appeared to be, to leave matters open for three years, and to enforce a system of strict reciprocity it the end of that period. He could not conceive any plan more open to ob. jection. It any plan of retaliation were initials'', it should be acted upon earlier. The clause was then withdrawn. The pre anble was then agreed to. Mr. GLADSTONE wished to ask the right hon. gentle man what course he intended to pursue with regard to the clauses whisk conferred certain powers on the cuknial le gi-laturee Had the right hon. gentleman had an opportunity of considering the amendments which he (Mr. Gladstone) had proposed ? A. to the t:rm of those amendments he was quite willing to meet the right hon. gentleman. Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that although there was no gnat practical differt noe between the right hon. gentleman and himself, yet he preferred the course proposed by the government. believing, am he did, that it would be most as tothe colonies. lie had no objection to reconsider the subject. Mr. GLADSTONE hoped the right hon. gentleman would soon intimate his final decti.ion, as when it had been declared it might be his (Mr. Gladstone's) duty to raise the question. Mr. LABOUCHERE would take that opportunity of /stating with regard to the proviso en the subject of tl to pro portion of British seamen to the tonnage, that sines the discussion the other evening be had had some communica Cons with the shipowner, and in consequence he thought it hest that the proviso should be withdrawn. He had been informed by shipowners that it would lead to the overcrowd ing of ships. Capt. HARRIS said it appeared to him that the result of withdrawing this clause would be, that owners would be able to man their ships with as few menu they pleased. Mr. RICARDO said that the shipowner bad represented the inconvenience of the proviso, and on that ground, he believed, it was proposed to withdraw it. The hones resumed, and the bill was reported. Mr. BERRIES said it was understood that the third reeding was not to be taken until after Easter. Would the noble lord state on what day after Easter he proposed to take the third reading ? Lord J. RUSSELL would endeavour to suit the meow mociation of the house on the point, but he could not at lbs moment name the day. On the motion of Mr. LABOCCHERE, the bill as usentled was ordered to be reprinted. POOR-LAW (IRELAND).—RATE IN AID. On the motion that this bill be read a second time, Mr. HAMILTON rue to move, pursuant to notice, that it he read a second time that day six months. lie was insensible as any man to the gnat distress which afflicted many parte of Irelend, and most anxious to remove that distress, now and for ever, by any practical and practicable means, but he could not admit this measure as coming within the category of either practical or desirable. He objected to the measure, in the first place, on constitutional grounds, as interfering altogether with the established principle of local administra tion and load taxation. He of jetted to it, next, as inter fering with the great experiment now in course of trial of poor laws in Inland—an interference pe culiarly to be deprecated. From the last report of the poor law arawbeionen of Ireland, he perceived that, omitting from the calculation the last rats issued, only six per cent. upon the whole rating of Ireland had failed to be paid in. That poor law was founded on the principle that etch district should be answerable for its own poor ; and, although there were many districts, perhaps, too large, still the guardians in each case were the representatives of the ratepayers there, and responsible to them and to the country for the due administration of their trust in their own district. The measure now before the house would do away with this wholesome responsibility, and introduce general confusion. The system by which a pleas was to be compulsorily assessed for the relief of re mote districts was an indirect violation of the wound constitu tional principles which the legislature had, at ell events, al ways avowed; and the committing the distribution of the tax to the Pcordaw Commissioners, whose management so far had been such ss to give offence to the good sense of the people of Ireland, was calculated to combine the whole coun try against the principle of a poor law at all. (Hear, hear.) Nothing could be so unfair as that districts which had struggled more or ler successfully to keep down their own pauperism, should now be called upon further to contribute to the support of pau perism in which they had no share. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Buckinghamshire bad well pointed out, in ore of his eloquent addresses, that it is a dangerous thing to impress any class with a conviction that it is being treated with injustice by the legislature. Most assuredly if this measure passed, an indelible impression would be produced upon thebest class of her Majesty's subjects in Ireland that they had been treated with injustice by the legislature. (Hear, hear.) He should like to know whether a principle of the kind involved would be tolerated in England or in Scotland? Besides, the rate proposed would be altogether inadequate to the assigned purpose. Even did they collect the 250,0001, which they would not, it would not at all answer the purpose. He objected to the proposal further, because he considered it calculated to aggravate all the evils under which Ireland laboured, and which were made constant matter of reproach against ber— tha want of enenty, of determination, of selfdependence. (Hear, hear.) Why was it that Ulster was In a better con dition than the rest of Ireland ? Simply because the popu lation there were energetic, selfdependent—were good ma nagers of their resources. A fine reward for their good conduct would they meet with in the results of this mea sure ! The bill, in fact, would simply operate as a premium upon that very idleness which had brought distress and rum upon so many districts of Ireland, and the effects of which would then become all but uni versal. Many divisions, which now were just able to struggle on free of debt, would be prostrated. If he could feel assured that, in conjunction wilt the present measure, means would be taken to grapple with the whole question of Irish distress, he would be ready to consent to any amount of fair and just taxation ; and although not him self a landholder, be would venture to say, on the part of the east and the north of Ireland, the same feelings predomi nated. He hewever objected to the bill, because it dealt with Ireland on provincial, and not on imperial, principles of legislation, which might lead to separation. The bill was opposed by the subordinate authorities of the government in Ireland; it would not fulfil the objects which it was intended to effect, and it would increase and protract the duration of those evils which it purposed to alleviate. For all then reasons he begged to more as an amendment that the bill be read a secant time that day six months. Mr. CORRY seconded the amendment, upon the principle that the ball was as objectionable for two years as it would be far twenty. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that his hon. friends who had moved and seconded the amendment, admitted they felt for the distress in the west of Ireland, and yet both of them had need arguments against the bill which went to the effect that no relief should be afforded to the distressed popu lotions of those districts, for they joined in objecting to make Ulster pay for the want o f energy and industry of Connaught. He (Sir W. Somerville) looked in vain for any other fund out of which any assistance to the annum popu lation could be derived. It was very true his hon. friend (Mr. Cony) had said, if Ireland is not proportionably tax.d, let a commission of honourable men be nominated to inquire into the subject, and if the fact was so he was ready be pay his additional share of taxation, but here was an urgent case. The famine mast be stayed ; the people mut be prevented from dying of hunger, and that is best done which is nostquickly done. To appoint a eonimissioa would be blinking the whole question. And Mt blank was not the income tax a new tut when it was imposed is 1842? Was it impend then upon Inland? Were there net ether exemptions from taxation enjoyed by baba? He recollected well that when the right hon. baremetepposite fleet proposed the inmate tax, he and Tinny of his hon. friends around him listened with the deepest anx iety for the announcement of his intentions with respect to Ireland. He well remembered the murmur of approbation which proceeded from the benches on which he and his hon. friende a z it t when they heard the right hon. baronet state that be di of intend to melees Ireland to the income tax. Remembering that circumstance, ho little thought he should ass the day when Irish mambas would ask the go- vernment to impose an income-tax on Ireland, in order that they might escape the rate in aid. (Cries of " No, no.") At all events, though there might be some who were not melons that the income-tax should be extended to Ireland, he was not wrong in saying that both his bon. friends oppo site had said they preferred that tax to the rate in aid. Great stress had been laid on the hardship of subjecting in dutriosu and wealthy Ulster to a contribution for the relief of poor and desolate Connaught. And it had been asked what Ulster had to do with Connaught, from which place that pro-Ines was so far removed. He in reply must say that Ulster had a great deal to do with Connaught, and that Ulster *mild not be allowed to blow hot and cold—to profit by the prosperity of its own inhabitants, and to refuse to share that prosperity with the other flute of Leland. He did not believe that the present condition of CIMSBUgIit was owing to the want of energy of its popula tion. He ascribed the distress prevailing there to that dreadful famine which destroyed the food of the people. lie attributed the pauperism and ruin of the west to the failure of the foundations on which the whole fabric of society in the west was raised, and not to any of the effects of free trade, as had been everted. It was not till the year 18" when the mare extended poor law was thought necessary, that relief to the able-bodied out of the workhouse was son-' trued by the house. His belief was, and always had bees, that that ineasuro was a necessity; It was a misfortune to be driven to such a law, but it was preferable to the modes of mistimes which had before been resorted to ; and if they had had the poor law machinery prier to 1947, his belief was that a large amount of money would have been sired. Sup posieg, then, that they were all speed that it was not too much to ask the people of Ireland to come forward in some may towards the relief of the distressed district*, all they had to decide was the best mode by which that essistance might be rendered. It shoull n• v:r be forgotten that this rate was a temporary measure, and was intended te most whet he r.:~~. hoped would be a temporary calamity. He had given his reasons why he preferred the rate in aid to the exteneion of English taxes to Ireland. If they went on the union prin. ciple, it mutt be remembered that Ireland had been exempted from a number of taxa which now oppre red tke people of this country. There might be those who preferred the extension of English taxes to Ireland. He was not ens of that kind ; he preferred the measure as proposed try her Majesty's government; he believed it would be found the least oppressive of the two, and his belief wss that if government bad, in the fi rst fissions, proposed the extension of the income tax, they wcied have been met by a larger opposition than they now exterienced. If hon. gentlemen suceseeded in imposing such • tax on Ireland, and did Oaths their harry, they would repeat at their leisure. Lord JOCELYN supported the amendment, not objection to the (quid apportionment of taxation between the two countries, but objcuticg to a measure like this, unjust in its principle, and which he believed would increase, not dimin oh, pauperism. Mr. FRENCH treated the measure as unjust, impolitic, ' ungenerous, unwise, end, as a measure of relief, valueless. lie denoun ced the existing Irish poor law and its administra tion, and, after exposing its neglect and abuses, asked Eng lisp members whether this was a system in the support of which they would violate every principle of justice ? Mr. FAGAN, in the name of his conetituents, supported a rate-in aid, though be thought the imperial resources ought to be applied to the relief of the famishing people of Ireland. The trope:titian of Sir R. Peel had taken hold of the feelings of the Irish people, who would see it carried out ; and, in his opinion, it something of that kind were adopted, the population and capital of Ireland would be brcugbt mote upon a level. Mr. H HERBERT said, no one d,nied the existence of distress in Ireland, or the necessity of relieving it, but he had not heard one argument in favour of the mode in which it was propo - ed to afford relief. What he complained of was, not taxation, but that ministers, with ell their informa tion, bed produce d only this temporary measure to prop up • /WM which, by their own c nfesrion, had failed. Mr. Hubert expressed his more disapprobation of the language used in the north of Ireland; but, in excuse, observed that the people of that country had been taught, on many mations, that this was the only language that would avail; and he advised the ministers not to semen themselves behind the disunions of the Irish people. Mr. P. SCROPE said he would not follow the hon. gen tleman, and other hen, members who had preceded him in the debate, through their attacks upon the Irish poor law; but he was unwilling from the deep interesthe had always felt on every matter affecting the condition of the Irish people, and the study he had devoted for many years to such sub jects, to allow the present discussion to pass without sub mitting a few remarks on the motion before the house. In speaking to that matter, hon. gentlemen had argued as if the new poor law Led bee n the cause of all the existing misery of Ireland. Bat what was her condition prior to 1847 ? You were going upon a system of out-door relief, the recipients of which were to be a colossal army of 40,000 labourers and their families. After 1847, you continued out-door relief to a vast extent, but you charged upon the property of Ireland the sums expended for that poor relief which had been previously defrayed out of the imperial revenue.. Be had heard this poor law deprecated as an attack upon end spoliation of all property in Ireland ; and one which was driving all Its best tenantry out of the country. Why how stood the case of these tenants ? Previously to 1847, they had been compelled always to pay the greater part of their rents, whatever might be their money amount, in potatoes. When the potato crop had failed, they were still caned upon to pay the same scale of rents which they had paid previously ; a wale founded on the culture end the average crop of the potato. The same landlords, in many instances, were now attempting to extort the same mount of rents—perhaps ex orbitant in the first instance—which they had been in the habit of receiving under the existence of that old potato system of culture which has new. for two or three years past, so signelly failed. (Hear, hear.) As for the rate which had been lev on the land for the relief of the poor, it was idle to attribu'e the sufferings of the tenantry to that, as one of their excessive burdens. He found that in Cannaught, one of the worst districts as to prevailing dieters in all Ireland, the average poor-rate for the y_ ear Sept. 1848 bad been but 2.. 74. in the poen]. ( Hear, hear. Now was it oonceival le, was it possible, that a rate of this amount should have really operated to break the backs of these tenantry ? Or was it not rather the 20s. in the pound still exacted for the rent? (Hear, bear.) It was surely ab surd to argue, when the country was actually labouring under a third visitati in of the potato famine, that the rate of 2s. 7d. was a principal cause of its distress. Be sides, there was proof at hand to show that the rate was in many instances not only cheerfully paid, but that the ratepayers were, thexaselve., in • con dition of competency, or comfort. For example, he would iastance the case of Mr. Bingham's property in the union of Bettina. It was to other causes that the house must look for the discontent which ensued on the passing of measures intended for the remedy of Irish distreu. And he had him self no doubt that the most unfortunate circumstance con nected with their legislation for that country was the de gree of hurry in which it was passed. (Hoar, hear.) Every provision of this kind was sure to be made after a hurry-skurry fashion. The house usually waited till the eleventh hour, until the exigency for a remedial measure had become most urgent, and then the measure was intro duced and expedited through parliament under ciream• stances which left it no character of an set of selteustaining or permanent legisleCon. (Hear, hear.) He did think that the character of the remedies proper to be applied on a large scale to the relief of Irish misery had been much mis understood. He had himself, so long ago es 1848, foreseeing the probable failure of the potato crop, brought forward two propositions with such an object—the one • poor law ; the other, a plan for the employment of able bodied labourers, on a very large scale, on works the most essential to the substantial improvement of Ireland, and the extensive occupation of her unemployed peasantry in the cultivation of her waste, and the draining of her wet, lands. Unhappily, neither of these propositions was entertained, The passing of a poor law was postponed until after the failure of the potato crop had occurred twice, and the neces sity of an attempt to face the accumulated evils that bad ensued could no longer be delayed. The consequence was, that this all-important measure was so precipitately carried through its venous stages, that it had, proved exceedingly defective and inadequate in many respects. One million of money was disbur.ted for the avowed purpose of out door relief among an enormous mass of applicants, but in such a manner, and under such a system, that it seemed to have?wen impossible to have determined who were deserving recipients of this money, and who were not It was very certain that whilst this enormous fund was being distributed, and long after it had been all issued, masses of the wretched unemployed peasantry died off by aeons, so that it was often found necessary to bury their boa a in large common graves, without shrouds, or even the ordinary rites of burial. (Ilea-, hear.) After such accumulated distre s es had followed upon no less than three years of potato famine, was it not most unreasonable to expect, however, that any poor law would, directly it had bean enacted, operate to remove them so long at the g verament and the legislature pet...aced in withholding those auxiliary measures of relief which, by providing for the employment of able-bodied la bowers on a great scale, could alone afford present relief to the sufferings of the people? (Hear, hear.) The house would perceive from the reports and documents on this subject which had been already laid before them that all the most intelligent guardians and com missioners concurred in this seatement "that the want of employment was the main evil of Ireland." The small farmers, who had formerly always managed to main tain themselves, had been total'y evicted from their holdings by hundreds and by thousands. They cou'd no longer earn the means of paying their rent. But what measure for pro viding employment had the government introduced ? Where in one locality, labour was largely employed, there was little or no distress . Everybody knew who heard him that for two centuries and • half the authorities were bound by the law of the land to find labour for the employment of the able-bodied. The law of England might have been right or wrong in decreeing such a compulsory prevision; but in either case it had been always open to her Majesty's govern ment, since 1848, to bring forward some greet measure of employment for the poor of Ireland. The universal destitution now experienced there from the want of such employment for them was still unsatisfied. But why? Was there no field there for such general employment? On the contrary, it was universally admitted that the field for labour was inexhaustibly extensive then.' and in few countries could it be more largely occupied to greater national benefit. Nothing could be more pupae- terous than the common talk about Ireland being overpeopled. The self-some complaint was made two centuries since, when she did not support one-fourth of the population she now possesses. The hon. gentleman then read two or three ex tracts from reports front boards of guardians, all of them *Binning the same opinions, namely, that there was an un limited field for the employment of the poor ; that the Im provement of the land and increased value of all property mast follow on that employment being provided ; and that in some localities there were actually not labourers enough at hand to take up all the works that were being carried out. The question, then, was—what should be dans ? The argu meet in favour of the rate in rid was that the people would perish without it. That it was a metier of absolute neon sity, and thst therefore aid should be afforded in some sha pe or other. The objections which he entertained to a rate it aid were precisely the same as he had upon a former occasion urged—namely, that it was contrary to the principle of the poor laws, the well known principle that local destitution should be provided for by local responsibility. His opiates wee, that the principle sought to be established by those wise supported a rate in aid had the opposite quality to that of mercy. It hod the effect of injuring those who gave as well as those who received. It lied out a premium to the mismanagement of land, and would materially injure threes very districts which the rate in aid might relieve from responsibility. The consequences of such a mode of relief from responsibility would be that the landlords of Mayo and Galway will care very little about exerting themselves in the discharge of their duties as proprietors. And why should they, when they find they will be relieved from responsibility_ by a nation 1 fund raised expressly for that purpose ? He did not wish to use harsh expressions when speaking of the land lords of Ireland, but he found these very sentiments set forth in a newspaper (the Daslin Evening Mail) of the 7th of March, which has always had the reputation of being the sperial organ of the lauolords of Ireland. That journal stated " That if once the rate-in-aid was collected, the Mayo and Galway squires would let the northeres pay their parr rates for them, and lay out their lands in grass farms." Bat, then it may .be said, money must be ot,tainei to prevent starvation and the sacrifice of human life ? How was it to be raised ? The right hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was coming on Friday to act the house to veto 100,0001. upon the credit of the ra'e in aid, if that bill be passed. It was well known the rate could not be collected this summer ; the imperial resources must therefore be drawn ugsgjoy - 7;"*"......_ must be advanced for properly meeting the "weir Now, if he was asked how he would raise ties ) , money, his mower would be the same as on • fermir il s„ sion, The mode he would suggest was reasemable ante instead of taking loans upon the credit of ther sty% would recommend that they should be taken ups a y .." rity of the land itself. Why should not the hags It roving of Connaught be made responsible tee %sde," the pauperism upon them ? If the necessary fugaZT LI made the sole s vai oflalrish ble t esta e tes, and, a p the money ower should be t a h7; the relief of Irish pauperism should be u ne a aa i r their 'tensity. That could be done without fallictiag bolt upon any one. It would be merely placing the udegy-""".. the right bone to make the ow ners of land in the eruZ and southern districts r eponsible respectively for the d u al tion thereof. The landlords penes' the power to key aa Z ► penny of their rents; they can seize the last cow, ay sy - t i; bed under the shier of their tenant who neglects to his rent ; end why should not the estates of the Ludt:sill liable to seizure u well as the chattel property of th e tenant? Why should not the same law be for the p oop . "' well as for the rich ? It was very hard that the poor got-' be subjected to the moat extreme severities, while the prietors of land were exempted from liability a artee Po: least to far as their lands were concerned, Bo arakp l e.! that the most just and equitable principle was to eau( "‘ ment frern the land where destitution and peat: gr i m ex fn. Who ought to be responsible for the relief of the pOj Pniat "l• which existed in the west of Ireland, except those towline th land belonged and who had created it ? The ho n . gegje then read an extract from a report of Capt. Lang, a p m % inspector, who died while engaged in the performsnea gay duties, at Bantry, in the county Cork, is ceary moo ., his views. The report a tributed much of the Napes which existed to the misconduct of landed merle:ow. e a t to their pittiless exaction of the lost farthicg of their rsta If pauperism (continued Mr. Scrope) had been incremsd those means, and if it was necessary that the pose tin thrown upon the world by their landlords should be rili n g from starvation, from whom was it most just and %ug l y that the means of relief should be exacted ? Why, ea. tainly, from the owners of the land. They had, by neglecting their duties to their tenantry, canted - 3 1 pauperism which existed, and they should now be bad responsible for its relief. The fact was, some of the hudlonie of Ireland had found it a profitable system hitherto to lam a . facture pauperism, but they, and nobody else, should us e be called upon to pay the penalty of their Urdu& By adopting the suggestion he nal made, that the setergy advances should be made by the rummer*, and the their repayment should be secured by a power to sell the Wyk they would be carrying out that principle whirl ag g e a d the only gleam of hope for the improvement of the nutty —namely, changing the proprietary from a mere seeing one to a proprietary with capital and ability to minus the soil and improve the condition of the people. Hedy approved of the rate in aid as calculated to retard this happy result. If the landlords were compelled to divines tyy duties—if they were held responsible for the Misled pia. miser which they had mainly occasioned, and theirpray g . ties were to be answerable—the governor , nt would be temp upon a right principle, and they would inevitably pol lees new and a more useful proprietary than thou now is Ita land, who were either unable or unwilling to no g t o people. The hon. gentleman concluded by calks op:esa house to encourage, by every means in their power, ta,4 tivation of the land in that country, and equalise fireplu gs of the poor rata. Sir J. WALSH was surprised to hear the hoe, seem opposite (Mr. fierope) find an easy remedy for all the ridid Ireland by the confiscation of ail the property of West lie believed that practically the experiment eugenic:lkm been already tried in the distressed districts, and kik. less the honourable gentleman's sa:acity and knoirkd.d Ireland would enable him to see the effects whiffing's. The only argument in favour of the measure had Ima allegation of necessity. This was the sole animals* offered to every objection brought against it; end Ma the admission of the government themselves, the nem would not satisfy the necessity by which it wee deg i( Every step that had been taken in the inquiry hydras committee produced evidence against this measure. km shown that the necessity, if such existed, was not temp., but permanent; this was proved by the evidence el lk. Power and Mr. Griffin. Other witnesses tad shown theka policy and Injustice of imposing this rate en one put d Ireland to relieve another , while England, which yr en suffering, was untouched. The potato failure affected as ell parts of Ireland, and hence the injustice of milli ma province for the relief of another. Another objeetisa the incompleteness of the measure. The noble lord bel promised certain other measures as an aceompsaitawt, lt nothing was now heard of them. Alter first mink emigration, the noble lord had afterwards &nomad k impracticable and delusory. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER aid, Ike by a proviso in the hill, a certain porum of the had would be applicable for that purpose. Sir a. WALSH was glad it had not been overlooked. Hi much distrusted the plan that had been sketched out by the right hon. the member for Tamworth ; he had no bidai what were called " great and comprehensive mums' Pis many cases, as the Reform Bill, and the repeal of ths laws, they had turned out failures ; and the right be. baronet would better have consulted his reputation if Imbed adhered to the principle he acted on one former eseadw, of not giving his advice until he was regularly celled I. (Laughter.) If the right hon. gentleman meant tasm* a commission for buying up the land, his scheme he* much the earns es the plan which had already been Man in many districts. The great objection to the was that it would not get rid of the main GOP log difficulty—that of finding purchasers foe etttla The notion that all the evils of Ireland IMO .a able to the insolvent or bankrupt condition of Me lo* proprietors was • complete fallacy. It was in night capital was invested in the land, if there was not aka,* it the disposition to employ capital in its improvement Is disapproved of the proposal of the noble lord to take a sU in committee for 100,0001. befire this bill became law; di was in effect to destroy the discretion which the Widely might exercise in the subeequect stages of the bill, suite run the country in debt before the security was obtained. The *nations to the bill were so strong that it yoga possible it might be rejected elsewhere, if not in that hem Sir G. GREY maid he was anxious to advert to stew olds objections which had been urged by the hon. gentleman On had moved the amendment. He had conceived that Ni points had been dearly established in the former debits — that an amount of distress existed in ems d the western unions of Ireland which required n• traceous assistance from some source or other, to prow* the people starving in large numbers,—and that that n• Manama assistance must come, not (rem imperial mown. bat from those of Ireland. The first position no one bel attempted to dispute ; and one hon. gentlemen bed even said that the bill was inadequate for the relief of the distress, sad that 180,0001. would he required in the course of the present year. Hence, any reference to the papers on the table, ii of of the existing distress, was wholly unneceuary. Bet he was a little disappointed in finding that the second poi. Ron had not been so generally admitted as on the former ticamion, when almost the only question was whether tbs necessary relief should be provided by a rate in aid or aa income tax. (Hear.) In none of the sueches in the pre sent debate had there been any tender of en income taxi and all the arguments had gone, either to withholding assistance altogether, and leaving the people to their fait, Of to drawing indefinitely on imperial lemma. GI hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. G. A. Hamilton) hail add it was unjust that certain districts aboald Is taxed for the relief of poverty with which they had nod* to do. But this was as strong an argument against any 'e• pedal grant as against a rate in aid. If it was a ausibin violation of justice that Ulster should contribute to theta el poverty not arising within that province, it was nobs unjust that that poverty should be relieved from impend resources. The case had been argued as though Miasma* first time that such assistance had been asked ; and it " add the principle of local administration would be Muhl by applying funds not raised within the district to the idol el poverty, and in the application of which the intuition had no direct interest. But we bad been giving minimal to distressed 011i0131 for a longtime; and this was er see Principle. From a report on the table, it appeared_ dad s left than 77,0001. hat been applied in one year, in burr , Glasgow, and other parishes in this country, exchnivella d the relief of Irish distrese. By • still later MM., it appeared that nearly 6,000 Irish pauper' had ben their way to Liverpool in three weeks; and tbaat there were now facilities for quickly pining them bark Mai' many had spread over the country, and the tioor-ratal a f increasing in almost every parish In England, owing P mike of Irish distress. (Hear, hear.) He had lstelL ee n . solved moat urgent remonstrances from Scotland " I ' e the large numbers of Irish paupers now laorlisg 001 west of that country ; and, in fact England and Sae li T, wen now paying a rate in aid very ' far exceeding the art' by this bill on the districts of Ireland. Then i m t =7l ' sa la t the bill would tend to aggravate the evils din* because it invaded the principle of sdf-depeadeoce. how could that dependence be mere invaded by relief cold!l giant a sixpenny rate charged on the rest of Ireland, thuo.l. relief from imperial resources ? Relief from latter einem would be more likely to destrol spirit of independence ; for the rate in aid 7 .1 : limited, while, in the ether case, expeete a tj. were excited of an indefinite amount of t t L, The poor rate in Ulster was nearly identical in smol t " 7 the rate in England, which, in consequence of the iensiff, tion of Irish paur n rose in this country to le. 9d. is t." ; `, pound. But the hon. gentleman said that the rate is' would afford but en inadequate amount of relief. If the gentleman thought that the 500,0001. cc 800. 0001 • might be collected in the two years would ha inadegsa the relief of the distress in Ireland, that might be a "It, seasgood in for increasing the rate from 83 . to le. ia_r; pound ; but it was no reason for rejecting the bill gether, without the suggestion of any annal,a supplying the deficiency which would b e by the rejection of this bill. (Rear, hear.) admitted that the principle of the rate in sit prop . t.„ Ireland was not strictly analogous to the principle olta" t ii in aid in England. (Hear, hear.) But at the WOO tams .‘ tt principle of the rate in England was different from aia.„ was stated to be to-night. If the poor rate we' maw" - eisnodneed parishto thtell they n c t ou t4 nty t . he B a u l t i e i fisthi°egron°lset' sad so a he believed the people of England would much Pla te n,. have the rate in aid extended throughout the whole rnt rather than that the minister should come down to Os alof: night after night to vote sums for the relief dined P° out of the imperial exchequer. (Hear, hear.) Tian h.& few instances in which the principle of a rate in the e. been acted on in this country, but that was because 7 . hes t curnstances to justify it had not arisen. Bu t if they .a, he believed that every parish in England should h e ai7, A ,j solvent, before one shilling was asked from thO ems was exchequer. (Hear.) The principle of the r.ti in vicinage; but if the union was ina d equ ate to ineett°' vest ilittr *Aim 1 L., m ea bg 1 app' then the i tort taw' Hal for job but be *xi wen ibot Zia F ar that who mew