The Express. — London, England, 1849-03-06 00:00:00

prirmating selloolimos and hatits of industry in proms who were able to work. Bet if the policy was writhe; the House of Commons was the erring party, and ought not to istietthe penalty on other,. Hey ad voted far the 60,0001. ; and if there • ere no ethos .cane—whateverether measures he might propose in cyder to avert future evil, and beaseforth amend each a C32/90—lie did not holm , " to my he weal giro Loathe: vote of the kind rather than leave the pe'p's to perish in that way. (Hear, hear.) Upon that groped he would give his We for contlauleg osiraam from lON ether source than the property of rodeos in Irelord. Thera came the snood mir th" keen what swum ought that sasisance to come ? He thought that other parts of the ..airs had a right to al spM Ireland to mils a stmsuous effort to rescue them hos (thee burden. Hs did not rest that opinion on the principle *meth" tansies of Ireland w s unequal es compared with that of England. It he put it on that ground the killed dedusties wee—the edoption of equal taxation. (Hear.) Übe were satisiled that Ireland ;sight to pa, the essessed hues and be sieltiested to the become-tax, he could net consent to relearn her hem the ebligoticia of contributing equally with England, by only suliecting her to 6d. in the pound on a certain description a prnperty only. By that 0011190 he would be subjecting real property and exempting per sonal property, which ought net to be done in the case of the 12001110-111 x. If it was said that this 61. in the pound was to be in lieu of an ii.ciene-tax then, es conceuo, it was oretteeded that personal property ought to b 3 exempted. He thought, therefore, that Irelaed ought to . make a great effort t 3 penult the tremendous con noised with the present distress, on several grounds. Is this country the principle win adopted in the co, of a take reaniketly unable to support its poor, of subjec'ing the vicinage to the bathes. They did not call upon the public revenue, but took the next parish, and, if that did not punks, they subjected the next parish to that same penalty. At first sight, there appeared no gnat justice in subjecting one du- Wet, which wee able to support its own poor, to the sup port of their neighbours, with whom they had .no 001111•110411. Bat it was net objected to, and worked well In England. If they were to try the same plan in Ireland, they would go en rendering adjoining parishes liable, or.e Liter another, until they were all involved is the servo calamity. (Hear, hear.) Ile would peter a general rate in aid. Another reason foe asking Ireland to make a vigorous effort towards her own relief was this: she hal net yet repaid the advance of 1,300,0001. for workhouses. Why did Inland refuse to pay that t He had heard no repudiation of, or refusal to pay, the debt due fa this country to the Exchequer for money advanced to erect union workhouses. He bad with regret heard it stated that the government could not ievy the proposed rata except at the expense of a rebellion. When he looked to the private contributions given in aid of thelrish people, he could Lot toile's that any Irishman could be found, certainly not in that house, who would counsel Lis countrymen to resist it. The 1,200,000?. for workhouses was advanced to Ireland with the fall convicticn that it would be repaid, but he believed not only that no mon than 36,0001. hadlessarwsid, bat that thith was an actual repudiation of diereeasladsr. There erne, certainly, same exceptions —the melon of Newtownarets for example, had paid I their full share. But whet was alsent'ng in the matter was this—that some -,f the prosperous onions were sating, " What have you collected in the south? If you have collected nothing, then we ads north will not pay you anything." (Laughter.) If Ireland would make a vigorous effort to pay that debt within a short space of time, and not spread It over many years ; if she would say, "Let us pay it in the way you popes°, by GI. in the pound." be was not sure that he would not accept it. (Laughter.) Now, although they ridiculed by an incredit •, :us laugh the idea of repay ment of a debt which was paid in England, and ought to be paid in Ireland, he thought be might very *al give a preference to a gene.al aid over that which would make the next union ropor.sible for the depths of its neighbour ; sad he was even willing to oppose the proposi tion of the noble lord, if Ire'oad would undertake to pay the balance of the 1,200.0001. by a general rate of 6d. in the next three months. (A laugh.) If they would n A de that, and would not point out any other mods by which Irel .red could be made to contribute, ho could not mien! to oppose the noble lord's proposal, lac n.-olete and ineffectual though he feared it would be for the present necessities of Inland.l There was a still more important matter to which he hoped the house would direct is amnion, namely, what was to be the condition of Ireland in future ? (Loud cries of " Hear.") Should the house consent t e impose up-in Ireland exclu sively something in the way of taxation, whatever its nature, for toe purpose of relieving her in her present difficulties, still that temporary advance would not relieve them fros the duty of considering whet were the future prospects of Ireland. (Hoar, hear.) He had read the papers before them with deep and painful *repliers. He would not weary the hoses by adverting to the details of the different unions, but take a single union which formed a fair example of the net, and Wady state what were the unquestionable fa rt s prevented by these pipers, given them from the highest official seared; and he would then ask the horse to consider what, after the present were to be the condition and future prospects of i=c 4 l ll i He would take the Union of Bailin, se it stood separate from the other', and as there was more recent informatics respecting it. He toned Mr. Bourke stating that on the 27th January, 1849, there were 3,270 perms occupying the workhouse, and in addition to them, that then wen 18,879 receiving out-door relief. Mr. Hamilton calculated that the number of person likely to require relief in his parties of the union before next leant at, was 27,000, bieuding is sea eutdoor relief, and that of these 4,300 were able-holleill and 14,000 dependents. Surely it became the duty of Sat house to look before them a little and consider what wadi be the condition of that %/Skil after the croon premised relief should have been afforded. ( Hear, - hem) Ile found that the lusentatie state of this ursine could ash be fairly imputed to the proprieton of land. (Hear, hem) Let those who thought °there're, and supposed that these gentlemen had made no sufficient exertion to meet this great calnmity, read the papers connected with this union. The &moon of rate and the arrears was now 17,0001.; 12,0001. had been collected, as the government officer stated, with bat little trouble to the collectors, without the necessity of frequent legal proceediogs, without easistance from the military or the polio . He had read the evideace of gentlemen connected with that union; and the amount they pee of their own exertions, the number of persons they had relieved, the redactions they bad made he their estab lishments, their willingness to contribute to the utmost of their power to midgets the prevailing d'atrese, showed that great credit was due to them for their efforts. (Hear, hear.) The vice.ereardian employed by the government said—" The striking another rate under present circumstances would extinguish the little hops which is still to be found in the union. There are thousands of sans, formerly occupied and cultivated, which have now more the appearance of ea; been devastated by an enemy than anything I can compare it to. The Ent failure of the potato crop brought to light the miserably rotten social state of this part of the kingioni. (Hear, hem.) The poorer classes are saving their ',weaves for seed, and would ea soon part with their lives as women them. (Hear, hear.) It is very doubtful whether the future success of the potato crop would enable the landlords to pay fair wages for a fair day's work. If the potatoes succeed. the principal effect will be to raise the price of land, and bring about the old state of things, notwithstanding the bitter experience of last year." (Hear, hear.) What a melancholy prospect this was for Ireland ! And it did rot arise from the neglect or misfeasance of the landlords; they appeared to have made every effort to contribute to the rata. The reports of the two veryintelligent vice-guardians, with evidently wished to do their duty, who spared no one, hut acted with forbearance, showed that any further attempt at exacting rates would only involve the union in greater distress. What a melancholy prospect did this afford for the future with re gard to that nylon. If they eultivaed the potato, they were exposed to the same miserable calamity as had occurred in the lest three or four years ; there might be a false reli ant" on this fbod he one or two years, then entire depend cnos on it, to the neglect of other means of subsistence ; and then would come a recurrence of the sum wretched condi tion of affairs as before. (Hear, hear.) Let it also be re membered that, from despair, many portion of the land, for merly cultivated, were now no longer so. (Hear, hear.) Twe onuses were in operation which it was most important to wa nder. First, the danger of relying on the potato for the future subsistence of the people, even if sufficient could be extracted from the ground for that puree, for one or two years ; and athe next place, several portions of the union were going out of o-ltivation. Ia providing the necessary relief, and ensuring the subt een of these people, by extraneous aid for one year or two, was it not most importast to consider what other mea sure would be ad*ted to mitigate the horrors that might otherwise again overtake them at a very early plod—Stan rate, to lay the foundation of a better state of tagi? (Hess hear) The peeped was moot discouraging. There wer; no means of giving such abundant subsistence to the people as by the potato, provided the season were a favoarable At the same time it was most unwise to rely on that means which, in three successive years, had failed and left the= in absolute want. (Hear, hear.) In ether yews, in to the potato, the people in this union bad derived material aid from the "Imply of fish ; but such was the lanasatali• condition of affairs that the supply of fish bad failed m well w potatoes. The return, stated that the total number of fishermen registered, formerly 2,989, was now redeem& to 1,368, and the number of boats bad been rained from 486 to 224. It was added that the boa's were in a very bad eon dation. Jest let the house picture the future old& union—the land largely thrownout ofeoltivat of fish almost cut off, the boats ruing into a worse= tion, and the number of persons employed scarcely one heif. After all their experience of the uncertain nature of the potato crop, unless some decided effort were made to impress the moral and physical condition of this union, the reeds alone would evidently be the only food on which they weal& have to reel . They would have to run all the risha-Bde t from the diminished quantity, owing to the thousand' of acres of land that were thrown out of cultivation ;—"ini then from the thanes of an early recurrence of that calamity, whisk might not be annual, but which might arise from MIS mysterious cause with which we were unacquainted. (Hear.) That failure, occurring for three or four some= was a subject of considerst on of the utmost ha It showed the dependence on the potato to he most hall; for, with an apperanni of fertility at the comet of the mason, in three or 'four summit" years, exesphig a temporary revival in 1847, the autumn had witnessed the a nthe failure of that article of food. Bellows es such a supply, therefore, must be attended with great doubt and hesitation ; and hence, even if the means of 'wh etstones for these people were temporarily supplied by pm lament, the future eonii-i n of that union—and it was a , spectates of the rest—must be a subject of great anxiety end moat serious consideration. There were now 27,000 pmeons to relieve; and these must Le provided for till the next har vest. He for one was willing to make any effort to rescue them from famine ; but it was impossible not to see that their future and permanent condition was that which de manded the most . serious attention. (Hear, hear.) He offered any engirt= for the mitigation of these calamities, tko w . Tient built, or for diainishieg the deign in prospect, with the utracet kesitatioa ; bat he did feel that the remedy on which they could alone place Talking, whisk mai be slow in its opt ratica, but was the oily an oaring a lope of safety, wm the tatnedasdea of sew prigeisters--(thissrs) — who might eater se the remake of the lead hoe hem its present in sumbrarggs, l ow these itho thud is its cultiva•ka would do so with new inspired with new hopes. (Chem.) That would be most aloft weltered by say of the rights of pre_m_siz i.. Nothing we to airy as to suggest remedies, those *his of property which it wee the duty Bala lighlethos la the first instance to uphold. At the same Mae, he theught this was a right of so Mk value to the pima* progeistors, if the racumbreases ea the had were to les &Obliged, and with its !meth t be could ad help thinking it possible he gerr iP arameat, with the mein of this borsy takisi ea saluted view date while ealiest, to devise sem means W which new capital might lie ialielased loco *kookiest's. of the had, sad by which the iiithetthe and whisk asoimarily Wag over the must proristela Wed mowed. (Ler, beer.) This rate in ad *Oa prelims& 'miles from the wit& of Inked. gad wampaskailtallos4 maldletted sm smut nothing else were dew% masa w ill ineh a t i aresieratina for Ireland? (Beer, hear.) Might it not, at the expiration of • certain period, be is precisely the ease condition ? (Hear.) Would they rely on the cultivation of the potato? Probably the next failure might be lases frightfully fatal. They ought rather to give dos onadderatisa to a mews which would probably invadable a better stara of things. He might revert to a period when the condition of things wets not wholly different from that now existing. In the reign dismiss 1.. when the settlement of Ulster Leek dap, hails eintatiss of Ireland there was a largo rani" abed la the seethet, dioNlt met so large as the , gtheafie that shirt mew he hed la die west of Ireland by Ithaniplatiat with the greprietoes, as anangemont to which then weld be no obisollea in that lima. At that time I (he quoted ham the of the brat Idetideits of the pitied, Parke) land to a great othant bed lam hellited--theat 500.000 acres in six cearatise—whiek bed meffared 17 in the war, and were reedit to amy diesiste I nes country was tall of weals and ravines, whisk Warded a shelter for ems and a retreat for robbers. • great mem ber of the ithabitants had perished by the sword, a Rath greater by famine ; the rest were reduced to such extreme poverty that they were not able, even if willing, to manure the ground ; so that the land laid waste in time lof war was likely to continue so in time of peace. Substituting for these words, " land laid waste by the opera tion of famine," the description was exactly applicable to the present state of the country ; though the land was certainly not now the refuge of robbersand out law', but of those whose fortitude ander their scum privations had givtn them the strongest claim to sympathy and consideration. (Hear, hear.) The historian add, d, that the lands so laid waste were made a source of great prosperity. Sir Ralph Chichester, then lord lieutenant, caused surveys , to be taken, &Ili the lands to be di vided into portions of 2,000, 1,500, and 1,000 acres, which were disposed of to 104 English and Scotch proprietors, 56 surveyor., and 286 native Irishman, they giving bonds to the government for the performance of their contracts. There was this defect in the settlement, that religious dis tinctions were permitted. (Hear, hear.) If It were possible to make any such new settlement, his earnest advice, and the universal feeling of the house, would be that no such %durations Vito be made. (Hear, hear.) Whatever rangsmints might make, no distinctions in point of ion ought tolnfluence them in any future appropris. (Hear, hear.) The historian added that, in coma eof this, lands ware cultivated, towns and villages trade sad coouneruccanied on and extended; the ,pie in general were gradually weaned from their former ..entrage and disorder, and began to apply themselves to Is boar and industry. It might be quite impossible now to apply any such principle, in its fall extent, to Ireland ; but, unless it could be applied in some degree, be saw no hope for the future prosperity of the country. If they were to leave matters exactly where they found them each union either relying on others, or on votes of pablie money, he taw no hope of permanent escape the cala mities now pressing upon Ireland. Bat if could, with out violating any right of property, make su ck en arrange ment with regard to the possession of land, taking care not to establish any distinction on account cf religions profession, des it might be possible, if not to the IMO extent, at least to some extent, to lay the foundation of future prosperity in lee d. He was quite aware an act was wand last session "Meg facilities for the acquisition of land • bat he greatly 'meld it would not be effectual without so me additional aid and distils. on the part of the government. (Hear, hear.) Ede had been established, he earth say very wisely by the ONO of Olismeny • but he math feared, particular{ with the alma= models that law at a later period of the ses sion, that the object it bad in view, of introdudng new pro- Crinto Ireland, would be defeated. (Heal.) He greatly il li there would not be this transfer of proper') ; be greatly feared the effect would not be that infasion of new blood into the west of Ireland which was calculated on. (Hear, hear.) He offered any sammeitisa with the utmost hesitation ; but he felt stesagly thee if wliament contented itself with either voting messy or Ovft • rate in aid over the whole of Ireland,temdag Is the potato and to the pre ssed disedhation dined is Irdead—ai the expiration of the two yanks whYlt this set s was spented the condition of Ireland would les se better. (IlasOmmr.) He feared, too, that if they relied on individual purchases they would make no thrum. He thought it would be pprruaddent to appoint mac thweidssicm he the purples of eemddmfag the proposed mho" awl teoseeklee the - parthility, **, addes aad inameation, of aides that thane In by the posieston of whisk wee iadispeasaWe to say great Improvement Pr o l frimatrz. (Hear, Mar.) If they dies to leave the present proprietors on drab land, htiWtnesiviag a nominal rent, incumbered with debt, with ao ONlolllllXleek to exertion, their property so oveshartheid peer rates that it was hardly pomade to find ehis a purchaser or an occupier-then he saw no hope whatever. But if they mall ociatrive, through the intervention of the ',ceramist sr the beisiablElN to 011iab lislt some intermediate agent, who cold get parmeisa of the property on perfectly equitable terms, sad then arrange its redistribution, he should then see Imp of a better date of things (Hear, hoar ) If nothiag of the kind were d ome, unless they maid, by some MOW andetant with jetties and equity introduce new capital, saw views of improvement, and new enterprise, in the plan at that despair and poverty which now overwhelmed the country, he had no hope what ever: of its future regeneration. (Hear.) He would do in- Justin to no man, but he would, through the intervention of a easspeunt authority, acting under government, sp t.:ldend supported by them, and having their entire con , endeavour to take a comprehensive view of the con dition of all these unless. (Hear, hear.) Despair was now overwhelming the proprietors, and without toms Riddance they mild net pruggle ea. The proposed sixpenny rata in mid Mould merely aiiieispr temporary relief to the poor in asme of the tanker, while the Lath would be left still gut lest to a penman bertha whisk would discourage either occupation or pardiess ; he mikes some guarantee could be obtained as to those there would evidently be as one disposed to the (Hear, hear.) The question was, eoald not the gourament, by the intervention demo such commission isle had proposed, give a security he thus ratio ? The rules drawn up by the Court of Chu mp might be very proper ; but they might depend on it thew mould he se individual purchases under the present =edg, man might be found who would gratuitously he their time to rescue Ireland from this state, who weld bosom a sodium between the purchaser and the seller, between the government and the occupiers. The con dition of twenty unions was so wretched that it had bees band necessary to reject all boil auktenes, and to entrust their management to noe-guardians. Witold it not b 3 poi odds, by the intervention of soma each interrnediatesathority, to assist in relaxing the legal difficulties in the purchase of lead, to supply a channel through which arrangements might be made for the transfer of this property, to suggest the mode by which this might be effected,—giving is future a title that should not be liable to question— (hoar, hear), •—t Nelda, situ mature consideration the rid of pediment for the confirmation of that title, I. Nees way or other limiting the antetha datums im theme of the put to which the lands amid he sediselith *es giving security to the tenant, and ales alvlig opal itsarity to the purchaser against legal dis- Iladtemmiea asoisall damn in the title ? (Hear, bear.) He mush, he use, see with great satisfaction the government gonmed, with the intention of re-distributing it, of that peed odds which wee now on sale in Connemara. (Hear, hear.) At e g as ebei was the date of things? Here was one Rahn b llllpport4,soo able -bodith paupers, and that mei he a time. The malt would be, these able-balhell mm maid OM, to interim with the la bour of ' dla eeuatry, while the women and children would be lotion the head, demanding retie( front the poor-rates. As thsland was situate, it was highly improbable that any one, without the interveation of a . third party, would purchase property. There was a magaifloeut estate of 200,000 aces, on the west west of Ireland ; if it were aturaired to another proprietor, he might improve the mantry, open up roads, and lay the foundations of future I:4ity in the district. Even an intelligent commissioner this labour to dispose of, might employ it in the NM way. But, though that estate contained val leys se fer tile as any in the ematry, no one would be foolish enough to advance 60,0001. it, with its mama incumbrance of 150,000 i., and the wesertainty about the rates. Bat were an intelligent appointed, who might take pissed= of tk• progeny br a time, divide it, and open up Imams of sathennisation,— , security being given for lu or 14 yeah *at a eseesin amount of poor rate should not be ex ceeded—ism that class of men would be called into sake who howl the lead in the time of James 1., and the faun. dation off future prostesrity would thus be laid, care being taken ahem all to avoid the establishment of any religious dieting's& (Hear, hear.) He would not attempt to remove zgeetsspleter on amount of his religion, but wadi to Wass now blood and new enterprise hate the esnalay. He would have division of the property, essarity dills, and would give a stimulus to industry by guarantees = a e future proprietor against beim suddenly over by the amount of poor rates. (Hear, ;bear.) Ne , mown short of that was likely to be ruconsful. He greatly I detheed whether, by the bill of last session, there would be thy transfer of property—whether some intermediate autho dty weed not be required to act between the Court of Cheisegy sad the purehaser. That was the:course whisk Jams the Pint had taken, after asking the opinion of the highest authorities. He went to Lord Bacon, who knew nothing at all about Inland ; bat his treatise upon the plan tation of Ireland was well worth, on account of his prophetic sagacity, the consideration of the pre sent more enlightened race of mou. There were then 500,000 t•cres to be planted. Then would be more than 500.000 acres now for the evil would go on increasing No efforts were making, hope seemed waived, and the people, instead of relying any longer .on would depend on the expectaion of a wretched sub•istenn of an eleemosynary kind. (Hear, hoar.) These grants of THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCIT 6, 1849. • this =e lk in= pe r haps the Ze l u di ft;7 ll l4ida ll" ag it, ton e at all man e two was great donne lot the people elheraldnes almagilbwths tieing °nett !Abram. (H e ne,besy,) Lord Been, etlebent say local knowledge, was consulted by James I. es SD the mode of meeting a nailer difficulty. As might be expected his "Plantation of Ireland" con tained extravagant and misplaced compliments ot the saga sity of James. (Laughter.) There were also some rili milms proposals in it but on the whole its suggestions were who sod segmlous. He says "of all things a co:minim is meet sesseenry—(lanehter)—both to direct and appeal, con trovertible and the like." That was to say, h. would not trust to those particular guardians, to the viobguardians ap pointed in particular perishes, who no doubt were willing to do all they could, bat still were without any influence. He goes en to my, "the conantheinners should fora ct mein tine reside in some habitable town in Ireland—(mueh laughter)—near the minty when the plantation shall be." Then he puts the answer that he knew would be made by =lnnen and secre taries of state. " What need is then of this ex pense ? Hath not your Majesty • most excel lent privy council in Ireland " Raying been in ' office, he knew that this would be the answer. (Laughter.) But he says, " Whea I speak of • council !of *station . , I speak of some persons noses by way of lee, nen, see hough there be a grave and suffichittortindl in Ireland, yet that supplieth not the purpose whereof I speak. It will g ive greater expedition and some better perfection in the darer tion of the matters to be considered beforehand, if such eon siderations be left with those who have continual care of the cause." That Is to say, be would advise, in Order to avert ' the danger that was gradually advanelag, and to meet the imminent peanut ails, the Westin of persons by the VOWS as the best amass st aiding a tanefer of pronettY constantly with V ist emil ia = gnersatesine the AMMO populate?, demands on au agent of poor rate-, male. improvements where a great betty of rasa seeds be sisptoyed, setting the people to make nee threngh inaoseseMe districts, and am in the cultivate of that land which wee now thrown out of cultivation. (Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that that would ho a batter course than the voting of limited sums of messy he reaet tronisigthat the hears potato crop of next yes/ would be butts, *ea the pretteding. (Hear.) Ile saw so lope but la a trusser of prepsety—that transfer not tobe effected by Wielded tarter Int by the intervention of government, or Mae commisdon which *said take the whole of the dist* end be the means of raising it from its preset lest se situation. (Hear, hes, ) He heard great ettitilisse JO the rate in aid, and a great many were willing to mem hewer& with other means to supply it. Thom Wen means would be more effectual after he had got the rats in aid. (Laughter.) He was 'riffles not to exempt personal propertyi end if the representauves of Irel.nd considered it would tweet and Our to put a tax en perms al property as well as Cu sod, he should' bs willing to agree to that altar he had got the rate in aid. (Hoar, hear.) Whea he got that, he should then be disposed to listen hveurably to the proposition which was made by one whose saggestions were entitled to the utmost respect, from his personal cha racter, his knowledge of tolled, and his attachment to her bit interests—he alluded to the hon. mamba for Limerick (Mr. litensall). (Hear.) Nay, hs was not sure that he would not consent that the proceeds of that property tax should be applied to the relieving them from their present most pain ful condition—that was to say. if he had a property tax now enacted he hoped it would be sufficient to afford them a proven of extricating themselves from their present difil *Mee. (Hear, hear.) If he had a property tax now levied OS Ireland on the principle of the English property tax, bat varying the details according to the different circumstances of the country, he, for one, would not object to apply the proceeds to the extrication of Ireland from her present diffi (lshii', considering the peculiarity of the misfortune by which she was overtaken. (Hear.) He thought that this would be a mat useful appropriation of the money. Ho looked to the west of Roland with perfect despair. He cared not whether they would be able this year or the next to raise 300,0001. or 400,0001. ; for he was deeply convinced, rinks, more vigorous efforts were made to rescue that country hem the calamities she was now suffering, and the evils that impeded over it, that at the exolration of those two years Honda be worse. (Hear, hear.) The habits of seledepen dime en the part of the poor would be gune—there would he hsplowars ant despair on toepart of the gentry. Tte had weal 'outings uncultivated till it was pertec•ly unlade glee mid the ruin would spread unless some vigorous effort wee made to change the constitution of the 'tenure of pro poly, emit to have the land improved. If they adopted the menne di* he pointed out the west of Ireland would afford an oppereasity for Improvement, which, spiking practically, a. Mbar geeeter of the world presente d . On the other side elite Atlantic there were large state* rising up in every di ngiest, and with the communications cm land by railroads, sages water by steam completed, there was every reason why the west of Ireland—if the pore.i nla respect to the tenure of land could be improved—should be a most prapa roue and thriving district. (Hear.) He recollected some lines of a ballad written at the time of the unfortunate re bellion of 1798, when men of talent directed their ability and efforts to spread disaffection and treason, to this effect When Erin lint rose from the dark heaving hood. God bleund the Green Island, and saw it was good— !. sun, and In soil, and in station them blest, With her bask towards Britain and her bee towards the west. Her fate was stall towards the west, but there was now an opportunity of conciliating her affections and binding her attachment to Britain. (Rear, hear.) It appeared to him therefore that they had now an opportunity by a new con stitution of property—by applying with the aid of go vernment new capital to the cultivation of the soil in Ire land—of materially improving the condition of that country, and if they:should mead Ia extricating her from her pre sent state of calamity and aft:ction, the means of future prosperity — happiness for herself and strength to this united empire. (Load cheers.) Major BLACKALL said he rose for the purpose of moving the amendment of which he had given notice, namely, that ea insome tax of 6d. in the pound be imposed on Ireland for three years, instead of the 6i. rate in aid. Her Majesty's had alleged three reasons for their proposition. Cill allilat at ens, that this tax should be Unposed on Ireland be anie Ireland was not subject either to the property tax, the armed taxes, or the excise duties, all of which existed in Ragland. The seeming of the first part of the res3lation proposed by t was, that a sum egad to 6d. in the rend In out of the union funds. He wished to all Westin to this feet because in some unions, instead of being la the pound, it would be a great deal more. The union la which be resided, for instance, consisted of 16 electoral divisions, aadwasvallisd at 80,0001. In some of then electoral divisions the rats was 31. in the pound ; is others it was 7s. 6d. At the suggestion of the vice-guardians, a rate of Is. bad bean struck in sight of those divisions, valued at 60,0001., on the plea that more could not be collected. The re innaing seen, valued at 30,0001, would have to pay the difference ; and the rata in aid levied in these divisions would be, not 6d., but le. 4d. in the pound. His objection to the rate in aid was, that it would fall on the tenant- farmers, who would be exempt from income-tax, if imposed on Ireland, and who made little or no use of hops or bricks, onwhieh the excise duties were lova& Neither was it fair to make the landlord pay half the rate. on his whole nominal income whilst the mortgagee and the annuitant were exempted: (Hoer, hoar.) It was • mistake to suppose that any one mann would extricate behind from her present diffiesides. Many measures would be necessary. The I right nes. baronet had alluded to one, the facilitating the transfer el property. In Ireland there was no difficulty in bringing land to We but to show that you had a right to sell it. (Hear, hear) There was great expense attending the transfer of land in that country. One sale of land to the amount of 1,2001. cost the vendor and purchaser together 2001. or the sixth of the money, and the smaller the amount of purchase money, the pester was the expense attending the transfer. What was wanted to carry out the bill of last year wee that the title given to the party purchasing could not be disputed. There would be no injustice in this, be cause the Court of Chancery would ;see that no land was brought to sale without a legal right of disposing of it. At present the purchaser was exposed to the danger of • vexa tious law sail. Than the government should encourage the employment of the poor in Ireland. Arterial drainage would be exceedingly beneficial to Ireland; yet during the lost year hardly any prowls had been made in it. He entreated the government to turn thsir attention to a number of measures and not to be niggardly. If they could acrooniplish their olgest without an advance of money, so much the bulbar ; but, at all events, let measures be *teething whisk would avoid the risk of this country having matialaally to rapport the whole of Ireland in a state if Arterial drainage and railways had been ear want of capital, *Webs government guarantee ealanald. Let the government, then, *ow their esaliissee In the preservation of peace an d the eventoal wive' of prespides by giving the necessary measity. With rawest es eke praised rate in aid, he was prepared to take his share of the Iran burden if it were fairliapportiesed, and if the government would come forward with such asseouree as he had indicated. The hon. member coseluded by moving the following amendment:— " That an auxiliary tend for the r-lief of the extraordinary distress in Ireland be raised by a rate not exesedieg slzpones In the pound, to be levied on all property and income in Irm land above the annual value of 1601." Mr. W. BROWN had listened with great interest to the speech of the right hoes. baronet the member for Tanner*, and believed that if the plan suggested woe carried out, it would afford the best guarantee for the future prosperity of Ireland. To this rate of sixpence he could not conceive any reasonable objection. lie found that instead of the English nation owing, as it was said she did, the Irish 60,000,0 M., if the account were fairly and honestly kept, the Irish nation ought to pay the English 216,000,0001. for interest—(laughter) —besides 130,000,0001., making the debt altogether upwards of 300,000.0001. He thought it but just, therefore, that they should now put their hands In their own pockets instead of applying to the iadustrious inhabitants of Yorkshire and Laaceshire, and other English counties. (Hear, hear.) He would certainly vote for this sixpenny rate. girl MACNAGHTEN considered the government pro real impolitic, unjust, and ruinous to those parts of Ireland which were not already steeped in pauperism. (Hear, i hear.) To make the affluent rapport the impover ished was exceedingly unreasonable. There was • sees ware Wire the house having reference to its insolvent members. It might save a great deal of trouble if a rats in old ware levied on the solvent members of the house to assist the insolvent. (Laughter.) There was no tre oedent for the government proposal in this country. Mr. SCULLY said he objected to the government proposal on three grounds; first, because the rate would prove insuf ficient in amount to secure the object , secondly, be cause it would be injurious in its operation • thirdly, be cause the mode of levying it would be most unjust. Ile complained that whereas the government ought to have come forward with a comprehensive =ante for the development of Irish resources, all that the noble lord had done was to propose au additional tax upon the industry of that country. In relation to the facilitation of the trans fer of property, the opinions of men really conversant with the state of the • . •.~ , law aid of the Acts in Ireland hod been wholly disregarded, l and thou of English coaveyaneme adopted. Sit W. VERNER said the imposition of this rate was a ofpoor return for the loyalty which the men of the north had semitrited in resisting the over tures which lees well affected •parties had made to them with a view to the repeal of the union. It was not even as though the rate wee, to fall upon all Tree party indiscriminately. The whole burden was to weigh mon agricultural property, already more heavily charged than It could well bear, while other descriptions of property remained perisotly untaxed. Mr. CLEMENTS thought it was clear that the money must come from an bah source, required as it was foe essentially Irish purposes. The question at issue was the taxation of Ireland according to her wealth, and it was not suggested that hitherto Ireland had not contributed to the taxes in proportion to her mean/. It was not from any disinelinatioa on his part to contribute towards the relo fof the distress in Ireland that he objected to the resolution. His objection was to the principle of a rata in aid. It had been stated by the government that the rate ma only to be continued for two yean. But say person who was acquainted with the state of Ireland, particularly of those parts which were to be re lieved by the rate, would be quite convinced that it was not to be exposited the rate was to last only for two years. He agreed with the hon. member for Longford that no single measure, whatever might be its nature, would effect this objeet. The measures for her relief must be suited to her eiresnmetanees. They must, moreover, be measures in which the whole empire took an active past and interest. If there were any resource which it was more un desirable to have resort to than another, it was this of a rate in aid. The poor law was a new measure in Ireland, sad it was difficult to meet the demands which it caused to be made on the farmers there. Tt e toople of England were not aware of the struggles made by the occupiers of land to pay their poor rates; and if they knew what they would suffer when celled upon to pay this additional rate, the English nation would sympathies with the Irish farmers and refuse to impose it. Another serious difficulty which promoted itself was the machinery by which the rate was to be collected. It was not known whether the rata in aid was to be leyied upon a special valuation, or whe ther it was to be raised according to the existing valuation In Ireland. The valuation was imperfect. The inequality that existed between the various parts of Ireland in the valuations to the poor-rates was as great as 50 per cent. That feet wee proved by the evidence taken before the poot-law committee sitting up stairs only the other day. Any attempt to alter the valuations now would be too late. How, then, was the rate in aid to be levied ? If according to the present poor- law valuation, what would be the feelings of those who would have to pay double the amount at which other unions were rated? Those unions also in which the poor-law was strictly carried out would contribute 60 per cent. more than others where it wee not enforced. He very mach feared that wherever this rate In aid should be rigo rously levied, the farmers and occupiers of land possessed of substance would leave the country as fast as they mild. The right lion. baronet opposite had stated that evening that there was no difference between the rate in aid and a property tax. But he (Mr. Clements) asserted there was all the difference in the world between the two taxes, owing to the mode in which they were levied. The rate in aid must first come out of the farmers' pockets ; and no me who knew what the sufferings of that class in Ireland had been during the last three years of famine and potato rot, but was awe of the fact that the imposition of such a load as that last proposed on their backs would tre ats universal despair. Such, at least, he feared would be the effects of this tax. If he Understood the government proposal rightly, it was to draw the amount of the rate in aid directly out of the unions according to their respective valuations. But, if this were done, the virtual effect would be to impose a nioepenny instead of a sixpenny rate upon many of the unions. 'Canis unfair in the highest degree to impose such a burthen on the poor farmers of Ireland. For his own part, he would strongly advocate the substitution of an income-tax for a rate in aid. The latter fell directly upon the tenantry, whereas the income-tax was paid by the landlorde. It might seem stra that the Irish landlords should pref,r an inc-me-tax at 7d. to a rats in aid of 6d, in the pound. The right boo. Familia opposite had said that the government would get the rate in aid first, and take the income-tax afterwards. But in his opinion the former at 63. would be a heavier burthen than an income-taxi at 71. in the He did, therefore, hope that If this money were to be on the resources of Ireland, the noble lord would takedato consideration the most acceptable mode by which such mesas might be raised. Mr. BOURSE observed that the system of gratuitous relief which had existed in Ireland bad destroyed the self reliance of the people of that country. Ile was strongly opposed to the mode of distribution of this proposed rate in aid and he was equally opposed to the mode in which it was proposed to be levied because he looked upon it as a direct violation of the faith of this country with Ire land. His constituents would be willing to contribute ac cording to their ability to the wants of the imperial exche quer; but if they could show that they were already over burdenedby taxation,end that they were unable to contribute more, he thought that they had made out a case for exemp tion. But give them English industry and English wealth, and they would gladly pay, not 7d. but Is. in the pound income tax. For these reasons, and firmly believing that the measure would alienate the affections of a large body of loyal subjects from this country, he should give it his most strenuous opposition. Until they consented to assimilate the area of taxmen in Ireland to the area in this country,—until they encouraged emigration, and chose no longer to keep the people in listless indolence, then, and not till then, might they hope to dispense with such a vicious system of leg pi don as was now submitted to the house. (Hear, hear.) r. B. ROCHE supported the resolution because it pro posed a temporary relief for a temporary want, because he thought it was due to the Englitei people who had made such sacrifices for the eel of of Irish distress, but he did hope the rate would not be levied until after harvest. Sir A. BROOKE thought the proposition most impolitic and most mischievous. He would suggest to govern ment to pass a clause to impose a double rate on all ab sentee landlords. He himself possessed small properties in different parts of the country, whereon be could not reside, and on account of which he should be willing to pay the double rates. He also suggested that government should take posression of in order to bring int* cultivation, the waste lands of Ireland, which amounted to 2,000.000 of acres, a larm portion of which was reclaimable, and might, if re claimed, be made the means of providing profitable employ ment for a large proportion of the labouring pepuletion. He wished to call ministers' attentioo to the tact that, in many parts of Ulster, the landlords had contributed not 24. in the pound, but as much as 14s. or 16s. in the pound, in the relief of the poor in poor rata and other modes of relief . Ea knew that Lord Farnham had paid upwards of 4,0001. in poor rates last year in his county, besides expending larr sums in giving employment to the people. Other landlords in the north had paid in the same proportion. He thought it would be well se a means of encouraging landlords to give employment if it was nrovided that all im provements should be exemp'ed from the rate for a certain number of years. Sir G. GREY said that the several important admissions which had been made in the course of this discussion, be was happy to say would enable hint considerably to limit his observations, inasmuch as those admissions had very much narrowed the questions at issue. The first admission which had been made was that the, e did exit in some of the western unions of 'Maul an amount of distress which ren dered it impossible to relieve the destitution in those unions from their local resources— (hear, hear)—but rendered same extraneous aid absolutely necessary in order to avert scenes of misery and starvation which be was sure the house of Commas would not be prepared to sit by and see enacted without some strenuous endeavour, some continuous exertion to prevent it. (Hear, hear.) It was not nemesary for him to go into the papers which had been WI before the house to show what was the actual state of that distress, because that part of the case was not , controverted, nor was the necessity denied, of something 1 being immediately dome to avert the result to which he alluded. ln the necessity for doing something all parties concurred. (Hear, hoer.) The hoe. member far Tipperary had said that the object of the sseesure was to relieve the landlords and not the people. He had to my that that was not the object of the measure, which was proposed to afford relief not to the landlords, but to those of the people who were proved to be in the lowest state of destitution. The hoe. gentleman who had just sat down,and whose opinion was entitled to the highest respect, had made some observa tions from which he (Sir G. Grey) was not prepared to dis sent. The hon. mailman had said that the present condition of Ireland was the consequence partly of centuries of mis government and partly of the bad conduct and neglect of mazy of the Irish landlords themselves. (Hear, hear. The ban. gentleman admitted that great exertions he been made in many localities to collect the rates, and that many of the landlords had not only contributed largely fa the shape of poor's.rates, but had also made considerable sacrifices in providing employment for the people. White he agreed with the hon. gentleman that great credit was due to the owners of property inthe union of Baling, for the mea ner in which they had paid their contributions to the poor rate, he must concur that if they were to go into the causes of the existing distress, it would be impossible to deny that the owners of property in that part of Ireland were not wholly free front blame—(hear, hear)--and that the system pursued by them of letting out the land in small patches for the purpose of growing potatoes—and which before the failure of the potato crop were capable of maintaining large numbers of persons by their produce, and which were consequently let at very high rents had produced a pauper tenantry, men without capital, who had not a shilling in their pockets when they paid their rents ; and the estates having descended from father to son, were at length made the mere subject of a nominal rental. Why, the very extract the right hon. gentleman had read great the report expressed most fircibly this important Soot, that the distress in the unions was not attributable to the poor-law, but that it had its origin in the firertalure of the potato crop. (Hear, hear.) The house were not, however, now inquiring into the causes of the dis tress. They foundthousands of people on the very verge of starvation, and the question was, how were they to be fed. The assertion so very generally made by those whose opinions were entitled to the greatest weight in that house, because they were fully cogni sant of the circumstances of the country, and dis charged their duties faithfully—the admission so often expressed by these hon. members that the time had come when some steps must be put te the repeated applications to the imperial parliament for grants of public money, was entitled to weight. (Hear, hear.) But what was the question ? Why, it was this —if the aid now iodispeosably necessary for the suffering was to be rendered by parliament, whether the proposal of her Majesty's Maiden to raise 61. in the pound, limitting that rate is its amount and also in its duration, was not the least objectionable mode in which the tax could be levied ? (Hear. hear) He felt himself bond to look at the main objections to the proposal. The honourable member fix Mama amoned to think that it had been intreisemil by bin noble friend at the bead of the goverimeat wry suddenly and without any prior intimation. Now, if the hon. member had made himself acquainted with the pro ceedings in the committee, he would have known that his noble Mend was there inked if he had any plan to preys* for the relief of Irish distress, or any permanent alteration that he was prepared to make. He then made the announce ment that he should be ready to lay the present proposition before the house ; and so fax from it having cones suddenly forward, his noble friend had stated his vim.' to the commit tee, and their minion was not asked upon the resolutions until they bad been afforded sufficient time to consider their import. (Hear.) But the main objections to the proposal were of two dusts, and some were ex in the house, and others out of doors. C i t a. member for Northamptonshire (Mr. Staf ford) had led the van in the house, but he had hardly re deemed his promise to point out its injustice, impeactica- Witty, and impolicy, for although he bad occupied &conside rable portion of time in proving its Wanks, he had said nothing on the other two subjects. (Laughter and applause.) He maned to have lost himself upon the question of the area of taxation. But he bad strongly contended that these peeliamentary grants ought tomes., ; and here the hon. gen tlemen was perfectly censistent, for he had voted against the femme grants. lie had voted against the 60,0001., upon the ground that extrinsic aid of that nature um de ateastite of that self-reliance which he thought so for the social elevation of the people of Ireland. He 1 417: 1 7. 1 Ilivy) agreed with him most fully, that the principle of self-reliance could net be cultivated too highly ; d and the gawrement had induced the inhabitants of the atresd districts to exert themselves for their own support, and to use ell the means within their reach for the relies of destitution, before they felt themselves justified in applying to parlia ment for a grant of public money. But when the principle of selcreliance was used as an argument at a time when the house was endeavourieg to prevent starvation, those who put it forwerd ought to remember that self-relience was of slow growth in Ireland, and that however much we might wish to cultivate that principle we could not expect to reader it immediately available. (Hear, hear.) Then the hon. gentlemen went en to say that he was in favour of equal taxation in Ireland, all over the mummy, for the purpose of relieving the distress; bat how was that proposal consistent with the cultivation of the principle of self-reliance ? If the money were to be raised and paid into the imperial Memory, and if it was then expended in the shape of grants to the unions, the whole principle of self-reliance would be involved and destroyed. The proposal, however, was one that answered itself, for the hon. member had admitted the policy of taxing one part of Ireland for the support of an other. He (Sir G. Grey) CMlCUrftd with him in believing that an indefinite 'on of parliamentary assistance had • most injurious effect on the habits of the people ;Utile entertained a hope that as parliamentary grants would be no longer the system pursued—(hear, hear),—tbese indefinite expectations would die away and the principle of self-reli ance would be cultivated. (Hear, beer.) He now came to the speech of the boo. member for the county of Limerick (Mr. Mansell), with regard to whom he might say that he always listened to his addresses with profit and instruction, because his opinions were not only sincere but of an ex ceedingly practical nature. (Hear, hear.) He admitted that the necessary funds ought to come from Ireland, but he objected to • rate in aid, and inclined rather to the opinion that en income-tax would be less objection able. The hon. gentleman who moved the amendment would also substitute an income-tax for the rate in aid, but he would apply that tax to local purposes,—emigration pro bably being one of those purposes. What was the differ ence in principle between that and the pr. sent proposal ? It was said that the rate in aid was a new rate ; that the whole of Ireland had not before been called upon to contribute in a similar manner, and that in England and Scotland the applica tion of it was not so extensive as was now propesid. But it seemed to be forgotten that an income-tax for local purposes was in fact a rate in aid. (Hear, bear. The question, then, to consider was, whether that tax would be more acceptable to the Irish people generally than a rate in aid ? (Loud expressions of dissent from the Irish mem bers, and ironical laughter and cheers from the English and Scotch.) He was not prepared to argue that the income tax should be imposed on Ireland, bet if hon. gentlemen could show tho government that the Irish members were anxious to have an income tax in Ireland rather than a rate in aid, that would be a strong reason why their preference should be consulted. (Renewed expressions of dissent from the Irish members, and laughter and cheers from the English and Scotch.) He confessed that he was not surprised at these very manifest symptoms of dissent to the proposition, because he believed, looking at the !arguer made use of in and out of the house, that tithe government had come down and proposed an income-tax, even for local purport., the opposition to that measure would be infinitely stronger than it was to the present. (Hear.) With regard to emigration, the hon. gentleman must have meant that as a mode of relief to the western unions, otherwise no benefit would be conferred by it upon thaw unions ; and he was willing to admit that emigration might perhaps be ono mode of relief. At all events it was a subject that could be con sidered hereafter, provided it were made to appear that it would be an effectual method of meeting the evil. (Hear.) He must say that an income tax applied to local purposes was a principle much more new than a rate in aid. To apply a tax of that kind, for instates., to county purposes would be a very novel principle, though he did not state this as a posi tive objection to the scheme. (Hear.) His noble friend (Lord J. Russell) seemed to have been mistaken if it were supposed that he Intended the rate in aid to apply specially to Ulster. Was the opposition in Ulster to the rate, or to the principle of any taxes being imposed on Ireland generally for the purpose of relieving distress? (" To the principle " laughter.) It appeared from the report of a meeting held in the county of Tyrone, that the parties teemed to labour under the impression that Ulster was now specially selected for taxation, but that was • delusion ; for the rate would be a general one for the whole of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) In feet, it would be a national rate ; and the people who ob jected to it on that or any other ground ought to recollect the grants and leans made to relieve Irish dis tress already by the imperial parliament. He begged to call the attention of those hon. gentlemen who complained that English farmers and capitalists did not bear a fair share of the burdens for the support of the poor, to a ninon from Dec. 1846 to Dec. 1847, of the number of Irish paupers who received relief out of the poor-rates of some of the metropolitan districts—the numbers being 159,000, and the expense 76,0001. ; these districts not including the City of London, nor the union of St. Luke's, for which the return were not perfect el. (Hear, hear.) And yet that was but a email portion of the relief afforded by this country towards the relief of Irish paupers. By a return he had received from Liverpool, it appeared that during the last f oirteen weeks no less than 61,000 deck passengers were landed at that port from Ire land—the majority, he was happy to say, being for emigra tion, of which the people of Liverpool could sot complain, as it circulated more money, but deducting them and some others the balance of ahaolute paupers thrown upon the rates was 15,000, or more than 1,000 a week. (Hear, hear.) Largo amounts for Irish paupers were also pea by Manchester and other larger towns, and in the general report of the Poor-law Commissioners for 1818, they stated that the poor-rates had exceeded the ordinary amount by 800,000/. ; and that the greater part of that was on account of Irish pauperism. It could not, therefore, be said that English fanners and others did not bear a fair share of the burden of poor rates even for Irish poor. (Hear, hear.) The representatives of the north of Ireland objected to &rata in aid, not became they preferred an income tax, but be cause they objected to any tax in any shape for the purpose of alleviating Irish distress. The hon. member for Limerick (Mr. Monsell) objected to tho inequality of the valuation ; but surely that was not a conclusive argument against the rata ? If it were, it was equally so against the poor law itself as against the county rate. The objections to an income tax, as a mods of immediate relief, were very great, on amount of the necessity which would arise for cresting machinery for its collection; while, in the collection of the rate in aid not a shilling of extra expense would be incurred. He concurred in all that had been stated as to this being a temporary expedient. The government would certainly not have made this proposal to the house if they had it not in contemplation to propose a modification of the existing poor laws. His noble friend had stated the other night the outline of the modifications which they intended to propose, some of which would be most im portant and leenefidal in their operation. But did any one suppose that they could discuss and adopt all those sugges tions, along with this resolution for a rate in aid, and do it in sufficient time to make the rate in aid available for the immediate purpose for which it was required ? These modifications, however, would be proposed, and he trusted, astented to by the house, at a later period of the eassion. Hiked aluady stated that mea sures had been taken by the government with reference to the area of taxation; but before any satisfactory conclusion could be come to, a great many preliminary steps were re quired to be adopted. As to the suggestions thrown out by the right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) he was certain no one would dissent from his proposition that the government was bound to look beyond the present moment—bound, not only to provide the means of relief for the existing destitution, but also to provide, as far as they were able, for the future, and :to look forward to the adoption of permanent means by which these portions of Ireland might be placed in a condition to maintain themselves, without having recourse to these continual calls for external assist ant*, and whereby the holders and occupiers of property might be able to support their own poor. lie (Sir G. Grey) had stated what he conceived to be the saute of the distress ; end, in looking to the remedies which might - be applied, though he was less sanguine, perhaps, than the right hon. baronet in thinking that psrliament er the government could apply any direct remedy, be most entirely concurred in the opinion expressed by the right hon. baronet, that the remedy was to be sought in the transfer of property from the hands in which it new was to those of others—from landlords who had inherited their property overwhelmed with burdens, and with a surplus income not sufficient to ecable them pro perly to discharge their duties to those around them—to men who were possessed of such an amount of capital as would effectually enable them to discharge the duties of their pennon, and to provide employment for the people on their estate.. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. baronet had not exaggerated the difficultirs of this subject. He had alluded to the act passed last session for facili tating the transfer of land ; and must say that it was only by slow experience that a conviction was forced upon gentlemen accustomed to the forms of law and equity, of the necessity of dispensing with some of those forms which in their notions derived from education and loug cherished habits were essential for the pr .faction of the rights of property. (Hear, hear.) No doubt those gentle men thought it necessary to lay down these rules for the protection of property, and they would be slow in receiving the conviction that they were unnevssary ; it was no less true that tt:e Court of Chancery was tot a court likely to assist is the removal of the obstacles which prevented the tranafu of property. (Hear, hear.) At the suss the e was no doubt very desirable to acceler a t e the r' 3 transfer. It was undoubtedly the interest o f t h e hi de property in those parts of Ireland wher e heavy p ot " existed, to dispose of that property ; and what was was to make it the interest. of people to buy. The thf lu tors s•ei was wanted was so to modify the poor leek al te persons to enter the market, without being dain te ciz purchasing by the weight of poor-rates, which, rr was the principal cause why the act of last mules comparatively inoperative. The only remedy for thievery be to relieve the purchasers from the rates in arm r . r i d , at the present moment, were Ccierriag them from =see. Whether the commission which th e t i g h t t proposed would accelerate the transfer of not was a matter for consideration ; but r l ye composing it were to have rower to decide all the 41 th b: t neeesea maght ry bl t r lt i they abPu eho t should b ti e tic la c w to yers ; and if sr% ro d iet th lt e Y, l4 :tre." 4 parties would find themselves in much the same rate as y, Court of Chancery. At the same time, he oho* e r to express • hostile opinion to a propteal of Ow without its being presented in more detail. He be ' that the Connemara estate, to which allusion had Q made, was likely to become the property of as or its great insurance companies ; it eras to be sold either er in lot+. The right hoc. baronet had spoken of e el ", - „7, in small lots of one or two thousand acres. Probably h a s ; net rightly informed of the nature of the property,' 1 „„ portion of it being of that description that it could rot b; divided. He hoped, however, that by means of tk e , Encumbered Estates Hill of last semen very = a y t obstacles to the transfer of property would be res ler j po though ft might be by a slow and gradual, but s ere , " He trusted the house would not reject the propositka bee r , them, without being wrisfied that there was mete .6. • course which woula better secure the desire! object. = Viscount CASTLEREAGH ra ,ved that the cliaj jr , = should report progress, and ask leave to sit 'gain. Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the debate would now it 4 lowed t.) close, and that the sense cf the committee mo o least be taken on the preliminary resolution. After a few words from fix J. Wstsh, a divides I* plate on the question of adjournment. For the adjournment Against it Lord CASTLEREAGH legato moved the adjoeveamt ' Lord J. RUSSELL, amid great contusion, wee 14 4 stood to accede to the adjournment, with the und eeeleed ,r that the debate should be resumed this day, Re h op i ht . gentlemen who had notices on the paper would tows postpone them. BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS BILL Sir J. PAKINOTON moved that the follook g /wk. men be nominated a committee on the Bribery at kseti cii BM : - Sir John Pakington, Lord Ashley, Si ?Meri t NI siger, Mr. Bouvet-is, Viscount Mahon, Mr. Brahma, Walpole, Mr. Legh, Sir John Boomer, Mr. Ha mm Mr. Wrightson, Mr. Haider, Mr. Maitland, Mt %keg and Mr. Sheridan. Col. SIBTHORP opposed the motion on the rmi the lateness of the hour, and moved tho adjournment m ti c house. Sir J. PAKINGTON said that he had given, ample et% of the composition of the committee, and he could adh lay that he had endeavoured to constitute the eanttoisteeti Nit u possible. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY objected to the ph*, g ia same members on several committees at the mum has, it was impossible for them to perform the duties thst sena. petted from them on these several committees. He dtrfh the bushier ought to be more fairly distributed moire d o members of the house generally, and should tot bt ate some 30 or 40 members of it. fie knew instances of se mittees where the chairman was the only person Fresno conduct the inquiry and cross-examine the witortra4. though by the rules of the house it was recetury dig* should be five to constitute a quorum. (Heir, hest .I Mr. W. PATTEN said that the lest point slishd t y the hon. gentleman was worthy of cinsideritios abuse of which he complained certainly existed lest mg, and the house ought to consider whether the nista applied to private committees should not he um( to public committees, namely, that the clerk of de e, mince should notify to the c hairman when there vex five members present, and that all further proceediorai.i cease till the requisite number was present. (Ileu,hts: The names of several members, to whew no *rim made, were then nominated. On the motion that Sir J. Harmer be one of the o mittee, Mr. MACKENZIE objected to hie name ttatdisg The house divided, when there appeared, For Sir J. Hanmer . 31 Against .. . As there were not forty members pr sent, the in ecematily adjourned at one o'clock Bile OppreS MAILS. The malls foe Vigo, Oporto, Usbon, Madeira, Cull:, ard Ohs will be made up on the morning of the 7th March. The malls. cis Marseilles, to the Mediterranean, 1f7% Ceylon, Hoog-Kong, Pm, will be mide up on Ste of tbe 7th March. tv Mails will be made up on the evening of the 7th inst. Os lea to be conveyed by 11. M 8. Sappho, which le appointed to 111 Portsmouth on the Bth inst. The poetage on letters for Berndt be le. No charge will be made on newepapers. All tenet fu tended to be forwarded by this vowel must be eponslirile By 11. hi. sloop Sappho." The malls for British North America, and the MI will be made up on the evening of the 9th March. The West India Mails, excluding Bermuda, Hamm It Honduras, New Orleans, and Mexico, and incledmg tler Madeira, St. Jami.de.alicangtut, New Granada, Chili, sal hr. be Made up on the morning of the 17th of March. The mils for Gibraltar, Malta, Greece, the lonian Ishadt Men, Ceylon, India, llong-Kong, and China, via tionthaara. , te made up on the morning of the 10th March. The mans foe New South Wales, Van Dterean's WO" Zealand will be made op on the evening of the Met Mara. MOH WATER AT LONDON TIRIDOIL Tao Da• —slacaln.t. 0 Ala. past 0: Altentooa, If MIL PI Tolgoaacow —Moraine, 41 asla. pot 0; Allmon, II La to • LONDON, TUESDAY, MARCI Tim " farmers friends" will not be allow shuffle out of their anti-malt tax profession+, the vague and mystical phraseology of Mr. motion. Mr. IltrwE has given notice of an Cr merit upon that motion, which is, in poistcft merely an expression in intelligible and usomi English, of the meaning which Mr.Disitssuat friends wish the farmers to attribute t 3 meaning verbiage. It declares that 0 with the of giving speedy idiot to the agrieultiag other interests of the country, without dnaf to the claims of the national creditor, the expenditure, now excessive, ought to be br reduced, so as to enable parliament to repel Of the duties on malt and hops, and to remove, NO as practicable, other taxes which impede NO, of agricultural and commercial industry.' amendment will test the sincerity of the members who have pledged themselves to vat the repeal of the malt and hop duties; Pi gentlemen, if they have bee a paying any swat ) the language held at recent meetings in the elf tarsi districts, can have no doubt that the fit) arc keeping a steadfast watch over their condret l reference to these imposts. It is indeed difficult to recollect a time stronger or more universal sense of ill, and r ciency of the government to remedy it, at present. We hear of nothing save in sociations, of all classes atall places, against the malt tax, of 'the landlords farmers, of the industrious classes expenditure, of the philanthr war either in theory or in to taxation, the whole island seems t of standing committee on the subject, to one scheme, the other to another. Ant financial reformer? So necessary, i• take that popular uniform, that many for mako-believo financial reform, see got cannot conceive to what end. Take, for example, the "numerous spectable meeting of the inhabitants o of Bridgcnorth," who aro overwhelmed poor rates and decreasing trade. Yet It remedy ?—" to curtail the allowances of and honorary offiosrs, with the salaries created commissions." What would P r them ? What economy in civilian ex, be felt if that of military expenditure is Better far not to meet or talk, where 7 mealy-mouthed as this, and stand in ' military Don. We are indeed startled to find that out far more boldly, and to the purpose, at meetings than even at civic ones. One thing is remarkable throughout, s meetings, whether rustic or civic ; this is, absence of anything like menaces, of the allusion to physical force, or even to ' numbers. There were indeed many r upon courtiers and strong antipa t hy to of the bedchamber, but no voice, nit destruction is applied to any of the pl!,. or state. All perceive that nothin- Is to without agitation, nothing to be obtained clamouring for it, so that these meet' . • ations, and clubbing of energies and literally become part end parcel sad political being. Mr. think them very dangerous, but Mr. feels them only as they were a of a century back, when association and were half way towards rcbellioa. Whereas Th mass reco lioteitll,a ti m e and remedy it, rZd ung save meetings la all places, of the the landlords ions classes Ili° philanthropists or in Pte' id seems to forms se subject, one attrc another. And who is dee • d, is e cessary, 1D o, that many ace reform, are got d. I nu m er ous and 114 habitants of the rcrwhchacd by in trade. Yet what ni allowances of diFl h the salaries of hat would all this civilian expenditec, xpen dit ur e is an . talk, where peopl e A stand in fear of to find that orators ) the purpose, at IC once. ;lc throughout all or civic ; this is,ta menaces, of the or even to the FL' imar eed many an otipathy to lora s aa* D VOICC, mach lea s ny of the pilla rs (i bt a nothing is to r to be obtained , these meetings an d 'es and resourc e ' Let el of our Ura liss roux, but Mr. were a the Y. og aosocsation an d - .Choreal