The Express. — London, England, 1849-02-23 00:00:00

mg, e t f uss wen igsg " aistime he SL Relesa,whki wad etkes pfilesse. cast% wallowed up the wimple peeeseds of the ewr l ge. mhig ns ad= !shy had steesallai Sir &aphis Loshisgton sad the ealietitor of the tramp, end bad band that there was ao diflicuity la bruise writ a seal& Mr. HUME soli PM is New South Wales the abuse of these spurts had bow so great, that they bad passed as °ca user, add laid dews regulatioss to wows these abases, sad be wanted to kaow whether goverment hail givea assetios to the °relines**, that it might be weed We • law. It was a mattir of importance for the government at hose not to aoltistv weirs the 0010siall ought to do it. Rs had Is* assioa preowned a Witless 'lean the grimmest at red less& AFFAIRS OP SICILY. Mr. BARRIS said that tomorrow its would pat a ques tion to the *obi* lord at the head of foreign drain, with raped to the statement made by him in this house, relative to the atrocities said to have been committed by the Neve& tea troops, whether he would produce the autheeitg_ es which be made this statement, and wc.sther ha was Mill of the same opinion which he held when he nada this &Me anest ? Lord PALMERSTON.—The documents upon which this elseseasst was made will certainly lOrm part of the papers presested to tl• is house ; and I am still of the opinion I esgessed, an opiaian foun led on the report of the responsible Mr. BANKES asked how soon the papers would be laid IPS Ilia table ? • ---- - Loa PALMERSTON.—That will di rend on the progress MI the negotiations. Er. BANK PS gave notice, for Toad ey kit, foe &teatime en the subject. RATING IN IRELAND. Lord CASTLEREAGH wished 'or information on a subject about which considerable interest was felt In the meth of Irelswl. He meant the imposition of a rite in aid arm the entire country. He should be glad to hear fro n the Chief Secretary for Ireland, whether it was the intention of government to propose such • rate ? Sir W. SOIIERVILLE said that, as the noble lord had net given tiny nstice of his question, he was not prepared to ' give an answer at that moment. Perhaps the noble lord mould repeat it to-morrow (this day). BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Mr. DISRAELI n Cad that the Parliamentary Oaths Bill was the lint business for Friday, the next heing the Irish Relief Bill. As there would probably bs considers. ble discussion en the second bill, he hopes that it would not be Demuth t on at a late hoar is the evening. Lord J. RUSSELL promised that no Irish bill whit& wee likely is create any dismission should be brought on alter helf.past 10 to.morrow (this evening). DISTRESS IN IRELAND. Mr. J. O'CONNBLL asked whether the resolution to which the house bad agreed, did not anth:,rise the granting of some relief to the distressed unions ia the West of Ireland. If not, perhips the house would eotstnt to allow the Irish relief bill to be taken first en Friday. Sir 0. GREY said that the government had felt justified is acting under the resolution. Advarces had already been made for the relief of temporary distress. (Hear, hear.) LAW OF MARRIAGE. Mr. 8. WORTLEY rose to move for leave to bring ia a " bill to amend and eller the act of o & 6 Will. IV., e. 54, se be as relates to marriage within certain degrees of affinity." He said K. was aware that the subject was one of extreme difficulty, bat having been made aware by keg investiga los sad attentioa of the extant of the gri,vances to 'Aida the' . present date of the law subjected large c'esses of the people, befall that he was not at liberty to divine thetask of bungle gt the question under the consideration of the house. The sub ject had already received the fullest diecumion from parties the most qualified to give an °jellaba. In 1841 it was dis missed in the House of Lords, and in 1842 the present Lord Ellesmere introduced it to the House of Commons. This led to the appointment of a royal commission on his (Mr. Wort ley's) motion, and the report of that commission was then on the table of the hoes,. During the former discussion he stated that there were two classes T f marriages affected by the prevent state of the law, those solemnized abroad to avoid the legal prohibi'ion, and those solemnized in England in dirregard el that prohibition. All doubt ow the subject of the marriages celebrated in England had been removed, by a recent decision of the Qum n's Bench, which decided that all marriages within certain degrees of affinity were null sod void. There remained still • clued marriages some what numerous, often affecting persace is high statics, std the dement of pros arty—he meant those whisk had her celebrated *bend by ? croons domiciled there, or who wished to mews from the stringent and oppressive state of the law is this eouatry. This elms of marrieges still remained in doubt sad eoestituted a state of things which called more theeever for inquiry. Since the motion of Lord Ellesmere they had had six years' additional experience of the law, sad OD fir from its having been efficient for its purpose, so far from its having conciliated the acquiescence of the general body of the people, so far from i's having tended to the public mora lity, the result had been that it was most extensively evaded, in manyeases utterly disregarded, abed had acted as a temptatiaa aad a lean to the lower classes, leading to the most exten sive primly, immorality, and concubinsge. In his judgment it wee eisisloted completely to destroy the morels of the wedeln duns. He lad at first bees given to understand then t& Meeks was to be opposed, and a divisios taken on the Imam of leave to being is the bill ; since then he had heal that the intention wee abandoned, and this would Mier it mammary that he should trouble the hoses at meek Mg* ea the premise oixwion. It would still be sessoary that he should give • short history of these seinimiees, and the substance of the report of the _ ...... reeeeimien. That commission had been ap• in esinseqoseseef the numerous petitions presented to Creme of Commis, some from port ies iaterwted, others be. bedividnele hawks ao Interest in the gentles, and oksm ales rem a eesiissehM body of the dm glebe este- MOM ihned• It had bees totted that the. wee eat May Makes am the parties most interested, bet it amid be sseilesMd that this was a most delicate geodes, MI the oemplakes, if at t loud, were certainly deep. The eimaie. NM was appointed to inquire into the laws reg a = t 7ar- Aiwa wkhk, certain dimes of affinity is and memetagem of • similar character eekbrated ew, that animiniee had recommended no scheme le the bowie, as mein, eel, sad fee this simple resat—that kir powers did net andieries them to do so, their scope sad ablest being me* inquiry bete the state and operati c Me law. eimmiminows therefore bad not felt themehmjestilei in mehing any reenamendation, but he thought that es eel amid seed their reptrt without kills( that every minim of that comedian was in thesis of as oilseeds be the law. Is prepping a mesa ere with that Meath% be theight it MAW to mane himself to Meal ramie% mid eat to touch epee gesetais which might be Mk re isemisa in that hem. He should, themeore, mike the prepeakions he woe about to make to two ernes sessimi to be d meet is before the emaskdoe. He swat the mirage with the sister of a deceased wife or her Mae ; wad the ammo which he Resat to propose meld be merely pemeheive, there was nothing in it of • =rilchamber. He did not believe that the e • premed would have aay effect in beepeadng the amber of these marriages. Up to UM they were practically permitted. Legally so dee% and emeleally, they were prohibited, but mope la the ease of the dement of pommy, or of malicious intellection, them was no danger of :heir being invalidated and esemangly for man your before the appoiaMeat of the imes them maniages had bona isnail is m aes make of lie. Desks all this time se esmgigiate had be. Mud, ear • ease is the very highest mho if Bth at eemeeeseeetested public attention oa the valgeet. What mil the Orr ? Instead of any emilemetio• el the mitlige, en Immediate application was mile le prlimein kir legal seastise, the marriage we. Bata el. bat all Intent mieviages of • similar kind was I=r et bY the seem, then introduced, and called Lord 'a Ant it woe for the purpose of 'cliog • resnaly that Lord Lyailhumes bill was and they led k ea the =at that noble and l earned summed be the Ile Duke of Buitex's bill, that he nets inteadid i l it to t a marriage with a demised wife's MM. a 's object was to establish the legality of sea =Memel which bad Ms emended at to that Wee, sad to peek, Mat as sppeutta seek marriages on atm key should net be invalidated if they had existed for two Tbis lees the demi of laid Imaum's bill as in need, but it eras premed by Lard Driegbani that such marriages con sulted after that time amid be deemed illegal, nod that rise being taken by attainments of the benekei vrith tt wiesaii that akar the mein Mthat hill with a e 2=l;inee dame Mask mell le remitieLmirldr of mph en Hews Impend, themeads of rata memiegsa bed sleet Ms esatraated. (Hear, km.) In aseasipmes of this stale of abbe, en inquiry was lami nae' ley same of • _iris, bean which parties were lIIMMINNI TM lied made is their bedew to smertala the fits. AM Mogi Ads mode obtaining evidence had bees .instal le, he amid not ma how any blame meld selede M ear man who, holding the opinion t the emeriti. ties imgesik by the law was net Medea either ea the kw el bed et masa ea comity, elm te take tie meet Abair sad maim steps to appertain the actual romilts. AANNO4 tinily, they impelated a reepestabk firm is Leaden as Me make of opmelka, sad these ima smiled evader at Ss ber and Mhos to mob. mimed *skies to melons pate el _the evssay. This am tie mem rem wick! the rimMea led bees derived, and be would sew Mis the results, as shown by the report. The ese". madmen m,y that Tema tas dm et the pear Mee Maimed === brehellea ert ewer et ereeerree le rerrekhe rare serstrtras le via err the est el IM bed them hilimise, sel Maher lesakteware le. HMI Se eras ROM el. se sea se mem= weds want as la ea Awake k ihe kw. la Mem weed Ole =a, _lt kr Wm greed tam wei ti ziie bseed te elearm mits et Re Mines of parr ft rpm le bre Ire cerierel et Now ... 6 .9 111 .1% 11 1 der ester, ens Mk as ovum se with sad reel Mr. Its terayees le sera WikerriN7 mar. re to • owtrirattwip lam se Writ skeet bet Ms &grids 10110 rib r lady to Oar • fret Of at= epanalea dha rre "h aw set wag= Ms Merle erelere, Ist, el ern et the lawirbira Ur- Aire; at MIMS isi tab& st Llenimidie re, per et reloil* loloo o lll ma ami Petters 1 4114 pane at fir sails Darra= ir i Dyes ISM rails Permems as Dec ~sr, Plsemeth. : sal i llsi s li t i rroms etlidee4 Beth, Obelerher j M Orr Wirers Arils Or dr be.. Os ter% is Wiry re ere erreetel rehle be Orr et the retestelk Int ma an pumearsil WI err t. eseerrar et taelleellor Masi erg arresee • IMMO erf oleh aw* le eerier Theemereyd aseliaral maglearielariliers war—otama reterreltelarriergirermeellrleteeme rein the pesidlial apes Us brae waraussil awe undmprit sat ; irl rem urgers el Mweraba bawl Spa aa wesied Milt a Mama il ia lbw mei iftlooloO4 la se slam drib Slim It a Midi Ss sat lat amoral aa rpappplummpal add ll= 111 sm. in Merl te bre maited N akalfilhas the imam d rag lira er sweriss. THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENINOAJWARUAItrift 1449. Of the meethips M meerielest Ohne tomesserselsk eery to. are totem in the pewee infs. Tor see bwe hem reams to mlabtlat nth slim at imam immegui tins doom as in sag Ohm, gni ri_solt=r4 esadidet sal ihrsaussisesser theeread a eagessftilMosit be teased wilted mem eia. Ma sew hien smog the earths ernes& t i =will=witelts ea of as bane the in a Nth Mese me heel te of Meths and property, and al thimpeadi dente seter Mahn kW% Onsidedes the Smiled extent of the lewd* , that it me mnined to three maths in ltd of might gresenee that 11106 mote than oshtenth of the whole amethsr el seek meniegee bad been ascertained. notelet Milli net, theision, be taken at hew than 13,000, end ospmesis that the average number of chil dren resellieg him seek was three, they had a total of amide 40,010 'Mikes fa the position of basbaede, as the of this law. And when they ''addend that the dfMtlst ever whisk the menhaden egeseded ems meek lees they one ten th , perhaps net mese ihea ems beselisiti of the whole of the eenany, the peopiniss el Nom meat be takes as so mask the greater. Aneseget the la bouring elms, toe it was beliandseek marriages were kr mem frequent than is the obsess higher la the social sear; be **night, *oaken that benlithe sahly say that the total number sines the pude, of Lied Lendhurst's act weld not be le es time kin 40,03 to 50,000. This showed clearly that the law had nee sheathed the general and universal mince elks peddle; but, on the contrary, that it Cl= deed a state of things so lamentable that rearms at the hands of parliament was absolutely woe say. Is addition to these evils, the law had undoubtedly led to much perjury and OTIAOII. It also plaited the clergyman in a false position as was shown by the evidence of those who were meet op! posed to any change, as the Rev. Mr. Tyler, who said it was quite impossible for them is coattails whether the par in applying to be married were within the prohibited degrees cr not, and ecoserteally they were constanly liable to be pissed is the painful position of celebrating marriages which lIIIMIO forbidden by the law of the land. The natural oonalusith from these premises was, that parliament must either devise a more rigid mode of carrying out the restriction (which he did not think was poosible), or they must alter the law. As he had said there were numerous instances of pause amongst the middle arid upper clung of society expetriatigg themselves to countries milers such marriages would be no violation of the law, but those marriages were only legal while the parties were domiciled abroad—lure they would still be illegal, and their children illegitimate. He thought it would scarcely he denied that some remedy to inch a state of the law was required. The commissioners, in their report, me mania amid Ile eamlueba that the statute s ft s Wm. Iv., e. Si, bridled to erre sherbet seebbt to les eared Wl= revive aselesente. bre aft tio nialtrieno with the or ci.r deemed weight= is nonsiess rumen'' whether =or leas name= Mee the prow of the Memo we have wok la w beibreeltsarw4, nastiest ®is melts us le form ea nide& Sat, without autumns M my mmgmben of this decried's, the make althea menimps is se mem setejestify us In sayW *etre le'n's' of OM Meats tmdwbrg them null and vot4 have net gerreligg Monad meths Mon iambi soh saw union+. No dear this to a Feet ed oriedemile Weenier sell. On a low earenterin, orb servispie awl essert to theemeds; but from the Wens 'Me curates. mid the seem, whir ohm attaches es to, their member mom be esslawo3 assaiskaL The evil le green ter, se baud en reemethis best, sash merdiese, when ociraild ander et Techni c see mid, the eisminentea are tossorms le Me paeftrties ende illm thdr hie., at ewe athelbs ell the ✓lOllll Old aise, as well Is ths wwdsltlag dent win saes; mhos penises ta a paths "Inn es avowed disobeidere to kw by the open seramptise of m lessen character which the law mead, Muss. Here was a law, then, that was consequently evaded, that acted as a snare and a temptation—that was little in accord nee with the feelings of the people, and so little efficient for carrying out the restriction it was intended to establish that thousands who could not afferd to live in other circumstances were exposed to the temptation of either breaking the law, or living in a state of concubinage. He proposed that par liament should take an inkiest in them parties, and relieve them from this difficulty, and with that view he would urge on the house to give him remission' to bring in the bill, in order that the whole matter might be taken into considera tion. (Cheers.) The result which the forts shown by the I svider.ce brought to the minds of the esmedmioners was stated at the end it their report, vie. : Os • review et the in ell these its darer berbigs rid dire, we are me n CAI to ewes our beled not the Memo lk 6 Wiliam IV. hthd to suds hs but dm to wild war dente wischm mgrs menu* et • theraster eanest. lbw menbess will tale lime whin a seneer mos deseentreset glesaleete meted stbeimentt they WO IbIR =ea Wines. We ore sat bind ft riskthat sash sad =wadi be eatessitedy bereamd sonar wee the law to Om rosary as we have mid, M bum the err ci the law ' rebliney sr pratenve, which bee serened, or, r we think, err will Wane* gown them. He had litters fens miens alaugymes, incumbents of po. pukes parishes, who had the mums of informing themselves of the actual condition of the poorer clines in this respect, and who were at the um* time anxious to do nothing that should interfere with the IlnikOfity of the church, but who were compellad to admit that the moral condition of their flocks was so injuriously affected by this law that they were prepared to recommend an alteration. This was the opinion of many parties of the highest character and authority in the church. While on the subject of the extensive evasion r the law by the poorer clones he might be permitted to observe that the neat body of those who had contracted theme mar riages were of moral habits sad religious feelings. (Hear, hear . He thought he had now stated 'Widen to justify him asking perralesian of the house to introduce the bill—Omar, heart—sad he would sow proceed alacrity to data the farm of the measure he pro . Be had stated that it was his intention to eosin himself to the actual grievance—that he believed to be eonlued principally to the prohibition of with the deceased wile's sister. There were also eases in whisk the prohibition to marry the niece of a deemed wife operated In the same way. was a oohs' ton much mere remote than that of the wife's sister, and as suck would of course be included Is the bill, though he attached meek lon impatience to this ease than the other. Beyond this, however, he did not propose to extend the per mission to marry within the prohibited degree", but would loin the table of restrictions of the church as it was. He war aware that it might be complained that he did not ex tend the relief to brother's widows ; bat there was a broad distinction between marriage with a brother's widow and marriage with a wife's sister, both in • religion and a social paint of view—in a religious view—because it was forbidden by the Levitical law, and in a social view, banns the bro ther had many mo re opportunities of invading the morality of the family, and of turning his petition to lammed ends than the sister had. He had said that the measure was to be posimin. He did not, therefore, intend to make it eto celebrate these marriages. He was aware thelt i rkle Y respect there was some difficulty in the ease, but be thought he could meet it. It had been asked what means were them to compel clergymen to celebrate these marrieges Mtsgthe legal restriction was removed ? His own was that the clergyman could not be orna edte celebrate what he migh ceerider to am illegal marriage. And he t propoosd to goodie ea the one hand that no person who had contracted or ellthmised a marriage of this sort should be liable to any sub or preeeeding . in consequenee. and on the other that no snit should be maintained against any clergyman for refusing to celebrate such a marriage. He meant to avoid interfering with the law of the church further thee wee neemeary therefore he avoided making it compulsory on any clergyman to c sleben' these manic se. He was aware that then was much difference of opinion sang the clergy, and even en the episcopal bench, on this subject; but he believed all parties were desirous that some alteration in the law should take pleat. Dr. Posey, in his published pamphlets, stated that the result of nth a permbelon as he proposed to establish had been in jurious in Germany—but in America, where it also existed, they had the evidence of Justice Story . and other high authorities, showing that no injury or inconvenience bad followed. In may parts of Germany there wee a power ha grant • dimmoodiss for sash marriages. That was the kw in Heaseren std until the separation of the two crowns the King of was often called upon to grant deesadiese for ea eel whisk in England wee held to be Mead. There were me mesas of meeting the ell by a dispensary power here. There was no authority is which the power could be vested, and therefore he proposed to grant the pmettnits generally by act of parliament. Still he thought it aresesary to guard the permission, as far as }made, from abuse ; and, therefore, when it could be proud that the parties bad been guilty of any immorality I=lllto applying to be moaned he gave a power of re t had lawn doubted whether marriages of this kind were legal in Scotland, and he believed such marriages had been contracted in that country under the impassion that they were there recognised as valid by the law. If they were now permitted by the law of Scotland the present bill would make no alteration in that respites, sad if they were not, it would kremlin 'them became they were solemnised there. Them was yet another dam of persons who were entitled to we sesideration at the hands of the house. In the year 1830 the legislature passed an act for affording to diameters the mums of contrasting iserriages wading to their ewe hewn dbpseeing with the soessuity for the chetah seessemy. Trent the widens, of the Wainer' of all dimesting denemieselese, es shows bi the ripest of the menahnieness, it append that amongst die embus eemenlly maniere within these degrees of affinity were nell sessidered es_ prohibited either by the laws of God er by morality. Oa behalf of that elan therefore he felt that he was entitled to ask for such a bill. (Hear, hear.) He had now stated the general grenade on which he lad pommel this atessure, and as further epportunitim (for dbeeseleg the matter would arias, he would set further detain could eso t e dia he preeent mb (Been bear). Hei amth pshoses them that be ad net te e. hemem emo rashly, betW ealleavenred b to ineasm bleamif fully on ell parts It, and be droll be how it the result should be that—the lisehlo wed Muhlm lithe womb of the bill being re megerl—lbeysheshil he waled le mint at amuse= of kgb- Ides whisk dwell be at theism time safe and effective for I eamodas the difficulty under whisk so many meths were lalimerg. (Cheers.) Amid that by removing a reaction width was ist the same der Washiness, oopeonlve, and deempeenn they would oblate She Wake staroys mother las MK sad motor tropism to many an eaketriate family. (Hen.) The ration having been seceded wed put from the chair, lit. H. T. HOPE thought the hew aunt, in deference to the comellesionere, on whose report Ile WI was !melded, and meo right et wheat now ailed leave to rhodium it, to Ant the bill to ever, allow the to dmi semi marg. lie meld not. how hem geadraan's statement to pp forth without some remarks, berme he did not wish itto thought that by allowing the bill to pin the lest siege the haw was *arduous he its favour. (Her, hem) He signaled lde smadae that the evident* takes by the wawa mortiodonen was almost all en one side, sad said that a railway =amities weld be charged with having 'end unjustly if they Wed is admin . manner, and declined to he the ems of the landowners along the line after they had listened to that of the promoten of • ill. It was admitted in their report, that Lord Lyndhurst's act we. very little Mows, and that in place like Maw Mr. IL PALM= midi that be Gould eat anew the bill to be introdosed without eindel dietinetly that he would, on all Intheiveppotmaltise, air fete his most strums' opposi tion. Mad they stalleleall pleads for altering a law which nadetabledly used span this otel_y bads, that d oes to this IllOment it had beim Melted in England as the true exposeat el CitristitWV, red lithe will of God, applicable te all maw P It had left eis believed by those who made the law • the semmisimeets ed•ltted that the same be li ef proveileel sew theendleollike ementry ; and he (Mr.= es w sore that the Mardi of Biagland stroegly ea , the same view. Bed they, then, 'Ancient grounds, either upon the more of divinity or public expediency, to altar a law of that sort, on • hick if they were wrong they would be acting contrary to that morality upon which the very founda tion of their institutions depended ? It was now proposed to abolish only one or two of the limited degrees of affinity ; but if those degrees were taken away a code would re main inconsistent with itself. (Hear.) He connssed that homily did expect when the commission honed that ha they should ve had ea inquiry of a very different kind front that which now appeared in the report on the table. He was not prepared to hese that comurssionen appointed by the crown upon a matter affecting the morality of the nation shoed have examined a number of interested wit news, for of the evidence dutch parties the who'rr staple of their report, with very few exceptions, was composed. The evidence was not entitled to the credit which the right hon. mover had anticipated for it, and this was a point deserving of the serious consideration of hon. members, and particu larly of her Majesty's ministers. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HENLEY said he entirely c "scarred in all the re marks that had been made relative to the commission, and the mode in which it had been conducted. In fact, so fully did he concur in them, that he had no hesitation in asserting that it did not come beore the house with the authority of any former commissions; fir if they abstracted from it the interested witnesses, what amount of testimony had they to act upon? Actually almost nothing. He believed that no commission had ever protected evidence so meagre and of such a character and nature. He had read it mast attentinly,Zd he thought it hardly possible to wade through it without seeing that one class of witnesses had been ex posed to • cross examination of • nature wholly different to what smother close bad been 'subjected to. Much had been said relative to the inbehiefs and grievances caused by the existing law, but the districts selected by the right hon. mover for obtaining his list of these complaints were principally situ. ated on the sea-west—such, for fastener, as Portmouth, Southampton, and Plymouth. If he bad inquired how many wives men had at those places, he could have made out numerous cases of bigamy. He could then have shown how many men had two wives, and how many had half a de.sen— (laughter)—but the commissio :ers had not asked these questions, but had simply confined themselves to one class of cues. Tiers was one most extraordinary omission in the report, for it did not state what the condition of the clergy of the church of England would be if the present law were altered. How were the clergy to be placed ? (Hear.) Would the noble lord at the head of the government call • snavocation together at such a time as the present ? (Hear.) He sincerely hoped the house would not, for the sake of a small minority of the people who had broken the laws of the church and of the country, take a step which would con fusedly be opposed to the feelings of the clergy and laity of England. Ireland, and Scotland, aid which the great ma jority believed to be contrary to the law of God. (Applause.) Sir G. GREY said that, as there was no opposition to the introduction of the bill, he wculd defer saving until the second reading the grounds on which he was prepared to give a hearty atsent to its introduction, with a view to an alteration of the law calculated to redress a grievance which had been shown to exist to • great extant, and arising out of the law of marriage between • widower and his deceased wife's bitter. He oid not mean to say he would go no further, but he wished to guard himself against being supposed to concur in all the provisions of the bill, which he intended, together with the evidence, deeply to consider heron the second reading. He certainly could not concur in tho re poaches which had been cast on the commissioners, nor in the depreciatory remarks that bad been made on the evidence they'ltsd collected. Rethought the right hon. gentleman was entitled to the thanks of the house for introducing a bill to remedy teat uncettainty, and on the second reading he (Sir G. Grey) would state the grounds on which he now sup ported its introduction. Mr. NAPIER, believing that this bill struck at the very root of the marriage system, which was founded on the word of God, and that it would interfere with the domestic hap piness of the people, and all the relations of We, would give it his most determined opposition in every stage. Ma nage had a civil basis and a religious sanction. Once set aside that basis, and they upset the whole precepts upon which the law of marriage was founded. He was satisfied that it they passed this bill they would do violence to the feelings of the people, not only in Ireland, but in this country as well. Mr. PLUMPTRE would also give the bill a most deter mined opposition, satisfied that it would introduce greater evils than existed under the present state of the law. Mr. 8. WORTLEY would not have felt it neeemary to say a word in reply, but for what he must toms the very unfelt and nagenerosa attack of the hen. member fee Ox fordshire. (Hear, beer.) The boa. iceman amused the commissioners of not taking the evidence of clergymen. ameegst whom he said a strong feeling prevailed agatoet the principle of this bill. Why, the hon. member could not Dave read the report, or he would have seen it stated that although every indication was given of their wish to examine clergymen, and every publicly was given to their proceedings, they found the greatest possible dif- Lenity in . getting clergymen to attead—(hear. hear)—the oatmeal inference to be drawn from which we. that they were not so much opposed as was represented to the principle involved in the bill before the house. Hear, hear.) Another charge was, that they na l:Led inteireeted parties • but who were b etter goalie , " . • to give evidence thin itittnested parties, or why sboZtid they be excluded when the evidence of all was courted ? (Hear, hue.) He trussed the second reading of the bill would be dimenmed on its merits, and without ceiling =punkin, whin were really without foundation, on the commissioners, Mho could have no possible interest in the matter. (li.ar Leave was then given to bring in the bill; and Mr. 8. WoaTLIY, Mr. B. DINISON, and Mr. MASTRABILN, named fur the purpose. THE TOLERATION ACT. whole V lTT , ,, B w i i t tr a r :Te s w to to m s o u v c e h fo an r a committee t of the t re Toleration Act as would exempt from penalties ministers of the church of Ragland who declared themselves to be dig. seaters therefrom. The noble lord in introducing the oaths question a few nights ago stated that if they passed his aleasant on the subject, they would be completing the dale of toleration ; out the noble lord, when he made that stelenent, must have either forgotten or been ignorant of lb* dab at the law with regard to the Toleration Act, that met whisk was the great foundation of freedom of conscience Ind religions liberty ; and previous to which, the greet saes of the civilised world looked upon religious permed= is • duty. The state of the law, as expesided ay the Court et Queen's Bench, was the cause of big mike. By a decision of that court within the bat three revs, clergymen of the Church of England were still liable lobe proceeded against in an ecclesiastical court for breech of Mechline if they dissented from that church. It was quite true they omM not be proended spinet for penalties, but they could be imprisoned ; and if the same opinion were entertained in the days of Wesley and Whitfield as now they could have been sent to titre= for the remainder of their days. The consequence of the decision of the Queen's Bench was this—that a clergyman, once entered into holy orders, was bound to the discipline of the church in which he took holy orders, and no step up= his part, to Askance with the act of toleration, could release him ben hie endings, no matter what the grounds upon whisk • thane boom been wrought in his opinions. Now, be thogighT l & se one would contend that such could have been the inten tion of the originators of that act; and if so, notwithstanding, the decision of the Queen's Bench, who had a right to take their own view of it, he considered it the duty of that house so to amend it as to teem the true spirit gad intention of the act to be serried out. If the person affected by the decision of the Queen's Bench was not now to prison he was liable to be =primed as a contumacious person in contempt of the ecclesiastical court. It was well that sum the revolution we had not had many bishops en forcing such a law, for if so the religion et the country would now ' be in a very different condition. If anything could revolt the feelings of the great bed, of the people from the church, it was prieeedinp of ibh kind. I Hear, hear.) When simple-minded men saw era an illustration of the doctrines of the church, they were DEW to be indisposed to listen to its teaching. The permuting by the Roman catholic', in the time of Queen Mary, were the greatest means of making the people benne protestant,. On this subjeethewssableto refer ton less en salinity than the Archbishop of Canterbury, who said there might to be some means whinny a person might diesemest himself with the ministry of the church. He non proposed Met a cler gyman diminish from the churn obenid he Awed to take the oaths prescribed for dimming gaining, sad should also mane a deihrelles of his dissent, each declaration to be repeated en gent to the bishop, who Assad thereupon pro the e.al entente of deprivation • and dm penes ge w =seini druid then be relieved horn all had Mesh= to his having taken holy =r a ges, wive the leadieg provisions of the bill he proposed to introduce. Sir .1 GRAHAM—WouId you make him eligible to a seat in this holm ? Mr. BOUVERIE—Yes. The bon. gentleman concluded by moving—" That the house do immediately resolve itself into a committee of the whole bones, to consider the memo of relieving persons in holy orders, in the United Churn if England and Ireland, on their declaring their Mend then from." The motion being seconded, Mr. GLADSTONE concurred in thinking that when a clergyman had deliberately changed his mind oaths subjected the vows taken at his ordinatioe, it wee no longer the buskin of the law to dive into the opinions he might entertain. He approved el the bill, provided there was no difficulty as to the details, and he should be both surprised and grieved if ft did not give general satisfaction. The motion was then agreed to, and the house went into committee. Mr. BOUVRRIE moved—" That leave be given to bring in a bill to relieve perms in holy orders of the wined church of Ragland and Ireland, on declaring their dissent there from"—Agned to. few =irf &ester, Leda, sa = d the had Toy O ki ; •g °l B l 1' P• 1 1 0 •irR 'l4k t r lON PielaWlAP leo.. .... 9 1, kr littlh d = us. et essessuage on, dil l N. He yelbibei to divide the bow as wend retells, •we the HO, by why we that MAIIIIOIII that ft be read a mead lefh• Sim dist eq its watts. /labium Ain riiiwAXim faVd Dietniat aid l W•fmtri ware aidarestV ii pidig ere . &MID PROPERTY IN nuttem '7 CLILWIJORD slued, puretaant to reuse, the folhowielf reesintim s ; "'that the laws relating and landed property in Insimed s ae affecting the right' and powers both ef lanai* mad team* require the immediate consideration of tide helm, with a view to ouch alteration of *NS laws as will remove the obstacles at present existing to the improve ment ot the mil and the employment of the people." He had frequently Lima umplaints in that house that Irish mem bers, thole' sisimeaft dwelling on the grievances of Ire land, toter primed easy remedies. He wished to exempt himself NM - tee mapiseash, and therefore submitted this re solution, ea the isamdadem of a series of measures which could only he MlCitillilai rp romottd by the power of govern ment. Yoe tom the of 'rebind had been depressed, and had bseense a se y were truly described, a potato.fed inti(Hear hem) The great evil had been the minute vielon Deleted, with a view to extort exerbtant rents, whereby the people had been impelled to resort to a lower dist, being without any regular employment Since the repeated failures of the potato crop the people were being rapidly exterminated. The only inception to this was the province of Md. r, where the per centsge of pauperism was only li in the 100, wtile in Connaught it was I. In some unions in Ulster the per mintage was as low u six. tenths in the Inicdred ; it was not lower in any part of the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, in Ulster, great part of the land was let in small farms, averaging from two to three acres. What, then, caused the difference between Ulster and the other provinces? In the latter the tenants bad no interest in improving the land, nor had the landlords ; for, owing to the system of middlemen, one was not at all de pendent on the other. In Ulster, on the contrary, the p lural prevalence of what was called tenant right gave a stimulus to industry and improvement. Having stated the oondition of Ireland and the cause sof that condition, he would now state the remedies he proposed. Pint, he would give to landlords the lull power of charaing the inhergon with any improvements they might make on their estates. A measure to this effect had been introduced in a former me nu', and he believed its principle was not opposed by the government; but as it was to be carried out through the in strumentality of the Court of Chancery, it was more expen sive than useful. Next, he would give landlords of estates under entail the power to grant long leases. Another most desirable measure was to extinguish, by some means, the rights of intermediate landlords. It was still more nec'ssary that a measure should be enacted for se eming to tenants the fell benefit of their outlay. This subject had engaged the attention of the house, at intervals, for several years. Bills for effecting that ob ject had been introduced at various times, amongst others. by Lerd Stanley and L_ r 1 Lincoln. It was most essential that the existing uncertainty should be put an end to, as it had the effect of arresting all improvement. The question naturally divided itself into two parts. In the pro viece of Ulster, tenant-right existed ; but the tenants were anxious that this right should be sanctioned by direct legislation : and it was not lets important that the same right should be extended to the whole country. Another desirable measure would be to give the state the power of aesuming waste lends, on a valuation to be properly made,with a view to their reclamation. This would be a most beneficial appli cation of the public money ; it would at ono, improve the land and give employment to the people. He did not wk the government to furnish employment to all the paupers, but simply is open a market for labour. It was melancholy to reflect that in Connaught, where the greatest distress pre. sailed, there were a million and a half of acres of waste land. He would also ask the government to assume the power of actually Felling land on which the poor-rates were not paid. It was most unjust to the people of England, and other parts of Ireland, that they should be required to make (toed such arrears. The bill which passed last session, for effecting the sale of encumbered 'Mates had been found impe rative, he therefore called on the government to amend it Another measure adopted by the government was, the ad vance of leans to landlords for the improvement of their pro perties; but though a good measure, as far as it went, it was incapable of being extensively wed in Ireland. A million and shelf would go but a small way in improving land. He would prefer stimulating landlords to realks en.provements with their own means ; and to give them the ability of doing so he would give them the power of borrowing money from the government. These were the measures which be would suggest for the improvement of Ireland. If her Ma jesty's government refused to accept them, what did they mean to propose ? His abject in making this mo Lion was to give the government an opportunity of stating what they would do ; and in bringing it forward he hoped he had done so in such a manner as to give offence tell's.r to the landlords of Ireland nor to the government. (Heir.) The motion huhu been put, Sir W. SOMERVIL LE said it wit impossible to deny the great importance of the su'lects introduced by his hon. friend, as it was equally impossibly to deny the surprising perseverance with whirls, year atter year, he brought und.r consideration his favourite project for a law to amend the relations between landlord and tenant in Ireland. He (Sir W. Somerville) was surprised that his hon. frieud con tented himself with bringing forward an abstract motion, about which there could be no difference of opinion, and that he had not, instead of this, laid on the table a bill em bodying his views in a practical shape, and setting forth the mode and methoi by which he proposed to carry them out. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend divided his speech into two parts. In the first he gave a elsecription of the unfortunate state of Ireland, and drew a contrast between different por tions of it; and in the second part of it, he detailed at length the different remedies he would propose for her im provement. He feared it was impossible to deny the accuracy of the picture he drew of the general distress and embarrassment of the province of Connaught, and the terrible condition of its pauper population. But when the hon. gentleman contrasted it with the comparative prosperity of the county of Down, end attributed this dif ferenceto the difference in the nure of land, be did not think it would be difficult to show that he was in error, be cause, although tenant tight prevailed LOS here to such an extent as in Donegal, that county, though not so bad as Connaught and some of the southern districts, was still in a lamentable state, and vary much behind the county of Down in prosperity. His hon. friend nest alluded to some cirministanees which deterred the people from in dustry, and amongst these he alluded to the " Elmdale system," which was the name given to what his hon. friend meant by the joint occupation system. He believed that a more perch:dogs system did not prevail in any other part of the world. That system was carried to a great extent in Donegal, and was productive of the worst effects. Now, with regard to the remedies pro posed by honourable friend, the fi rst he alluded to was a law similar to what was called the Montgomery Act is Scotland. That immure was carefully considered by the Devon comalesiss ; every can was taken to inquire into the working admit law with a view of forming a judgment how far it would be applicable to the mullion of Ireland. He believed he was correct in saying that the unanimous opinion of that commission was, that that act, and the machinery by which it was to be carried out, could not be applied to Ire land in its present condition ; that it was totally inapplicable to Ireland, and that any attempt to make it so would be productive of more harm than good. He did n-t mean to say that a measure of this kind might not be desirable, but he wished to stow with how much difficulty a question of this kind, as applicable to Ireland, was attended. They might all agree in their general views on the subject, but when they cams to the details, then it was that the diffi culties presented themtelves. His hon. friend next alluded to a measure introduced by himself in the last session of parliament, the object of which was to stable the proprietors in fee to charge the inheritance with money expended in the Improvement of the property, and he proposed to carry out the measure by the machinery of the Board of Works. Only conceive what the result of that would be if every land lord in Ireland were to employ the machinery of that board, and make use of the officers under the control of the coin missiooen, in order to ascertain what improvements were necessary in their properties, and to issue their fiats thereupon. They were to make themselves responsible for the outlay of the money on these improvements. The only effect of this would be to involve them in disputes and litigation with every landlord in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) If, as regarded the 1,500,0001. which theetenerosity of parliament voted for the improve ment of land in Ireland, the Board el Works experienced so mach difficulty in carrying out the act without involviag themselves in legal disputes, be would leave the house to determine what the result would be if the more enlarged ' ides of his hon. friend were adopted. (Hear, heir) He mentioned this, not as indicating that some such measure might not be desirable, bat to show the di ffi culties which Man on every que stion of this nature when government Mei OM* is in order odo what should be done by the frier.ine of Ireland themselves. His hon. friend newt anied to a measure for giving security M the tenant for improvements male by him, sad he alas& to the measures introduced by Lard Stanley, by the noble lord, the member for the Falkirk Burghs (the Earl of Lincoln), and that introduced by himself during the last session of parliament. He was afraid that his hon. friend justly characterised these measures when he called them abortions. Bat he thought he might include amonpt these, the measure introduced on the same subject bylsis hon. friend himself The subject he acknowledged was sur rounded by great dificuldes. but he would not my that he wee deterred by them. He hoped, therefore, very soon during the t session, to lay on the table a measure which w hive for its object, to secure to the improving Wain, the fruits of hi labour. (Hear, hear. After what frad pseud he would be very sorry to be to ) o sanguine on seek a see act, but sweidering that the smears of lest year IND svall 10 • mounittee which investigated the sub sist ra several improvements upon the measure his Lest session, he hoped that the one he was to in see in a abort time would, at all events, be con sidered as an improvement on the measures that preceded it. The hon. gentleman said that the uncertainty of the law es it stood at present prevented voluntary arrangements and agreements. He confessed he could not see why this should be, because, after all, voluutary arrangements ought to be the prieeipel object they should keep in new, as they were restiesably the most satisfactory mode of dealing between Wdtseele awl tenants. His hon. friend said it was the duty of the government to define tenant right, and to give it a legal sanction. It was a very difficult thing to legalise it, and he never yet heard it defined. With respect to the reclamation of waste lands by government, he did not know any measure whisk lost es much ground in Ireland. (" Hsu, hear," from Mr. Bellew.) The industrialresourees of Ireland were imper fectly developed, and there was no doubt her soil, if properly cultivated, was capable of feeding in comfort a much Win population than her present one; bat that was not the question they had to deal with now. It was his intention during the present session of parliament to introduce a bill for the conversion of renewable leaseholds into tenancies in fee—a mem» which he hoped to he precludes of great benefit. (Hear, hear.) It was also the intention of the go vernment to int roduce a bill for the amendment of the grand , jiry 'atm war „woos Assassin seltichtleostid.etnent'ennisnrebie betifit esuntrvernment were g oing •( Rpm, lisdr.) Maks said whin messomete t te introdesi, he hoped the hops, be content with whet he had said, and that they 'wtratd sanction a resolution of this kind, width pointed to nothing practical, but Purely raised undefined hopes, thus doing that of which his hon. Mind complained,—kesping the cesantry in a state of anxiety, NM exciting expectations which sight not be fulfilled. (Hear. bear.) After a few words from Mr. O'FrAtizarr, . . Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he thought that as his ho nourable friend had but lisle chance of carrying his motion, he would recommend him to withdraw it, but on the distinct undentandieg that ministers were pledged to ietroduce a bill which would go to the root et the evil, sufficiently early to insure its being carried in the present melon. Lord BERNARD said he so far agreed with the hon. mem ber for Limerick as to recommend that the motion should be withdrawn, believing ea be did that if carried it would excite false hopes and lead to no useful result. To this he must add, that any bill on this subject, founded on the principle of confiscation, would have his most determined opposition. The question of tenant-right, as usually treated at public meetings in Ireland, was a mere political question, and the wisdom of parliament would be best shown by leaving the matter alone. It was with regret that he bad beard the hon. baronet (Sir W. Somerville) announce that he had a bin to introduce which was framed on the suggestions of the com mittee of last session. Her Majesty's government should propose mmenres on their own responsibility, and not dele gate their duties to a few selected members of that house. On the subject of arterial drainage, he would observe that if the government would give a guarantee %bat they would lend moaey for tbot purpose, on undoubted security, many of the weeks which had been discontinued would instantly recommence. The fisheries of Ireland might be made very productive if the government, by encouraging railway communication, would enable the people employed in them to send fish cheaply to market. In connexion with that subject he would observe that the 40,0001. which had been designed for the improvement of the piers and harbours was I not yet expended. He hoped the noble lord at the head erl the government would state what course he meant to pro pose with regard to the formation of poor law unions in Ireland. whether be intended, in accordance with the report of the boundary commission, to form new unions, leaving the temporary house. to be taken in those unions, or whether he designed that auxiliary houses shou'd be taken in the pre sent unions. He would suggest to government the importance of affording agricultural instruction before the ensuing spring. The agricultural inPtructo.s sent out by Lord Clarendon last year had done the greatest possible goad, though no thing but the repeated failure of the potato crop coal I have enabled them to overcome the prejudices of the farmers. One of the greatest evils connected with the present poor-law system in Ireland was the accumulation of so many children in the workhouses. By sending a number of these young persons to the colonies, the government would be laying a foundation for their future happiness, and at the same time relieving the industrious farmer of a heavy burden. Mr. REYNOLDS supported the motion; and, after speeches from Mr. Mansell, Mr. Fox, and a rep a y from Mr. Sharman Crawford, the hon. member withdrew his motion . DUCHIES OF CORNWALL AND LANCASTER. Mr. TRELAWNY moved for A select committee to inquire to what extent thepublic are entitled to claim an laterest, present or prospective. In the management of the ISuchrs of Cornwall sad Lancaster, respecting which returns are an. mildly presented to the home. and whether there is not reason to hope, from those returns, as well is other circumstances, that an improvement in the management of those estates in particular, by the suppression of antiquated and superfluous offices, and the diminution of the salaries of of the two duchies. His own wish really was to realise to the Duke of Cornwall an increase or saving of revenue to the amount of at leant 20,000/. per annum ; end the country at large, he conceived, was interested in such an object, seeing that whereas at no distant period a I reposition might be submitted to podia. ment touehing the maintenance to be provided.; for the eldest son of the sovereign, such an amount weuld represent no inconsiderable a proportion of the allowance that parliament might accord to him. For his own part, he was ready to prove, in the event of the noble lord's granting such a com mittee as he wanted, such a series of cases of intolerable vexation and oppression arising out of the system on which the revenues of these duchies were at prt sent administered, and of their general management, se would interest every hon. member who now heard him. It was a feet well known to all gentlemen who were conversant with the tenure of land, and the state of property, in the Duchy of Cornwall, that over any estate in that duchy, which had paid but two pennies in the nature of a quit rent or acknowledgment ot any kind. 300 or 400 or even 600 years ago, the duchy had often enforced its power of dispossessing the present holder. It was true that by a bill paned not many sessions since, this term was restrained within 12.5 years; but even that limitation only showed the arbitrary and oppressive character of the right thus exercised. lie held in his hand a variety of returns of the several items of the revenue end expenditure of both the duchies for the years 1837 and 1848. Without troubling the house by recapitulating them, he would recur only to a few (which the hon. member accordingly read from the printed parliamentary paper) from whence it appeared that againot an aggregate revenue of 60,3961., the aggregate of expendi ture was 20,8171., including the salaries of a receiver-general, an auditor, a chancellor, bailiffs, clerks, counsel, an ant rney general, &c. It was in these useless and highly paid offices that the revenues were dissipated. 40,7161. were raised in one year in the Duchy of Lancaster; but a vast amount of the sum in like manner was distributed among such a variety of officials and law officen with sounding names and chief officers and other bearers, that the affair appeared to him absolutely childish altogether. It was like playing at a king and his ministers. The tennis for 1847 showed some little improvement on those of 1830-7. There was certainly an improved management and an economised ex penditure exhibited in them as compared with their prede cessors. But his object was to submit the whole of these accounts to a committee of the house, in whose heads a judicious and profitable management of these properties could not fail to be devised. (Hear, hear.) He was satis fied that at a time when the exigencies of the public service were forcing the adoption of retrenchment and economy in every department—when Parliament had so recently induced the gevernment to reform, and reduce the navy and other estimates—it would be deemed by bon. members highly inexpedient that the estates of the Prince, who was Duke of Cornwall and Lancaster, and heir to the throne, should be managed in the wasteful and unproductive manner he had more particularly pointed out upon a former cm casion. (Hear.) He knew it might be urged as an objection to his motion by the numben of her I Majesty's government that the howe bad no right to invest!. gate these accounts at all—that the lands and estates on which the revenues in question were raised were the private property of the Duke ot Cornwall. His reply to that objec tion would be a very simple one. If (he would ay) you deny the right of pediment to exercise any supervision over, or institute any inquiry Into these matters, on what prin. eiple do you annually publish those accounts ? The fact of publication supposed as well as invited such inquiry. Every hoe. gentleman then present must know, moreover, how difficult, not to say impossible, it was, to manage himself his own estate to any advantage or profit. On what principle eould it be contended that the estate of the Duke of Cornwall or the Duke of Lancaster was exempted from a similar liabi lity when left to such an irresponsible sort of management as that by which it was now administered ? The hon. gentle man having read a passage from a tract by Mr. Burke, written 80 years ago, contended, on that authority, that any trusts of a public or official nature exercised out of the con trol and supervision of parliament, was calculated only to expose to whom they were delegated to unnecessary tempts tion, and argued that the principle was clearly applicable to the present case. He concluded by moving the appointment of a committee in the terms above stated. The motion having been seconded, and put from the chair, — Lord J. RUSSELL said that when, on a former day, he bad addressed to the hones those considerations aeon which he was of opinfin that the motion of the hon. member (Mr. Tee -1 lawny) was one that ought not be complied with, be had not stated with sufficient clearness, he feared, the principal reasons which had impressed him with that conviction. He meant to have then stated that, on the last settlement of the civil list, it was competent to the crown to have seinen dered, upon any arrangement that might have been deemed satisfactory, the revenues of one of these duchies. But par liament, at that time, did not think fit to adopt such a prepcsition • and he had no doubt that this might bane been so with regard to the duchy of Lancaster ; but the duchy of Cornwall was not an analogous cese—(hear, hear)—for the lands of that duchy became the private property of the Prince of Wales at the moment of his birth—(hear, beer)—it was not competent, therefore, to the crown to make any arrangement that would work any defessance of this, the prince's own private rights. Now, in point of fact, le was prepared to say that whatever imputation of defective management might formerly have applied to the administration of the revenues of both these duchies, Lancaster and Cornwall, that management had of late years very considerably improved, and was at the pre sent moment, he believed, on the whole, satisfactory : whilst those occasional acts of vexation or injustice which were alleged to have been committed under the system pur sued in former years had now ceased to exist. When the hon. gentleman brought forward a similar proposition, on a former occasion, he did not clearly state what the precise ob ject was that he then contemplated ; and certainly that ob ject had been on the pretreat occasion not less vaguely ex- At one time the hon. gentleman seemed to state rir object to be this: namely, to show that the ma nagement of these revenues might be very mate rially improved, and their amount incensed, under a different system of administration • but at another his object appeared rather to obtain a co mmittee that should recommend the appropriation of these revenues of the duchies to the public service. And now he came forward to show that se large a sum might be raved out of a mere economical managemnit of these revenues as would save the country a considerable portion of the charge which it might expect at a future period to be called upon to meet for the future glow ante to the Prince of Wales. (Hear, hear.) Butts (Len J. Russell) must submit that, without the direct cement of the crown, these revenues *mad not be at all interfered with; and that that house would never sanction an attempt at sash interference in the absence of that sanction. The how gen tleman had alleged that a great number of ems of extreme hardship had occurred by reason of the defective measgement of these revenues, and that therefore the committee of investigation for which he had moved ought to be granted to him. It would, however, be surely very unjust, on general charges of this nature, to refuse to the crown the right of ethe seeing its own estates, or to take from the Duke of Cornwall the rats authority over his. And, 'again, if the house were not prepared to go the whole length of the hem. gentleman's peoposal, which would extend, in fact, to tales away either the property or the control of it from its owner, ~_.--,. ::, _~,~, ifebta late i isuasse • to the question bow far the exptaessef e m • mnaageomm illlli t i t i rthis property or the alterati on o f they • /reams might be economised. The safer plan. •wOnld be not to grant the committee. The noble lord he believed, as to the annual piWenetion pith's. agar s which the hen. gentleman had attempted to rum Oa ergo, mat in favour of his motion, that the real object with whisk they hod been ordered by a former government was, that their periodical production might operate as a very whoa, check on the management in question. That wattle nag, statding on which this plan of publication was first adopted, but it was never meant to convey that tort of right of tool ever these revenues wh ch the hon. gene eman has assumed in his speech. By a somewhat odd prow as of reasoning, the hon. gentleman hi.d lare from some speculative ragout of Mr. Burke, iantr on the mischief, that might aria under the einem 04 which the Stroistr lands' were then managed, that the same abuses must be in existence now, in 1849. (Hear, he m ) In poise of feet, they did not now exist. As to some o f those expenses on which the hon. gentleman had cons m eri t e d as being excessive, he (Lard J. Russell) could easily believe that the salaries to stewards, and catheters, easily bailiffs in charge of crown lands, were somewhat more high than were usually given by private oweera of tune properties. (Hear, hear.) He 'puke, advhedly, of small properties ; for within his own personal knowl dgr, oak a r . d.ed, by certain of his own family connexions, very m ar k barker sums were paid. (Several members, " Much limo) Yes, he telieved that by many of the duchies even Taiga salaries were raid to land stewards and others than bytes Duke of Bedford, (or example, and yet he knew, is kin case, that a gentleman was paid regularly a year for little more than the advice he gave on all leases sod other questions connected with the general arrangement of his landed property. (Hear, hear.) It was but natural that in the ease of the crown the same sort of services should be somewhat more distinguished. As foe these two duchies, the whole property of them is vested fa the crown. Without the content of the crown it could not be submitted to the interposition of that house,; and assuredly the crown would not be a party to any arranges menu that could have the effect of demagiow tire interests and the rights of the Duke of Cornwall. (Hear, hear.) Mr. P. CAREW felt greatly obliged to !Pr ton. friend (Mr. Trelawney) for having brought forward this very in, portant subject. There was no person convert:4 with Cot e. wall who was not aware of the injurious opgration which the present system of managing these duchies r racised sa the rights of tenants and landlords. He ha l been much astonished to hear the allusion made by the noble lard to his hon. relative. The two cases we c not at all analogous. The Duke of Bedford was not like) , to eats before that house and b^g it to make good the deficiencies el his own income ; and, it he were to do so, tie huuse would t,ll him to se onimise his means, by reducing such allrw , minces as I.o[ol. here,_ 3,0001. there, and 6,1001. in anoth er quar:er. Now, the Duke of Cornwall was very likely, sa tho other band, to be before that house very soon with tome ; such application—(cries of Oh," and taught, a) ; and hence it was the interest of parliament to see that his revenues were , economically administered. (Hear, hear.) • Mr. HUME should support the propailion for a con ' mittoe. Mr. M. GIBBON thought that the puhli had a clay right to inquire practically into the state of these reviews. The revenues bad been granted to the crown by sett:4par. Bement, and were subject to parliamentary investigatios. Mr. RICARDO raid that without going into the kande' part of the question, he should certainly support the props. sition for an inquiry into the management of there duchter, on the ground a f the grievous tyranny and oppression prac• tised in their name. Within Ms own knowledge, the in. habitants of • whole suburb of Stoke were suHerine hem lime from the conduct of the officials of the duct y 6f Lanesi. ter, who were urdermining and had actually destroyed many houses there under the pretence of exercising the mining rights attached to the duchy. Sir a. GREY said that as to the case of the inhabitants of Stoke, they were suffering no more injury at the hands of the duchy fficiels than they weuld have guff, red at the Lands of an individual possessing the same undoubted menu rights. Those rights were exercised under the direct sues tion of the law of the land. If the law operated oppressively upon these parties let them seek a modification of the law; but let them not alike out a special case against the duchy. The Earl of LINCOLN said that if the circurnetance of estates being held under the power of an act of ;orgasm was to be held as giving the public a right to int. Mere with the management of such domains. Strathfieldres a and Blue beim must be deemed equally open to pubic inter exam with the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster. There wen estates without end in the country which possessed royal privileges, but was that any reason for subjecting their so nagement to the examination of • ce mmittee of that home lie would, however, deal with the two duchies separately, notwithstanding the hon. member had bound them together in his motion. The first half of the hon. member's motion was that "a select committee be appointed to inquire to what extent the public are entitled to claim an interest, present or prospective, in the manage ment of the duchy of Cornwall." lie would, therefore, first proceed to show, as Cornwall was the first in order on the motion, that the present interest of the public in that duchy was nil, and the prospective interest so little as not to and grounds for any expectation on that score. The duchy vu of very ancient origin. It was granted by Edward 111. to the Black Prince, end the set of parliament by which this pant was conferred ran somewhat in the following form, " That the said duchy be hereafter vested in the Duke of Cornwall at his birth," the eldest son of the king being Duke of Cone wall from the moment of his birth, " and that it continue is be so vested in the Duke of Cornwall until his (leads or as cession to the throne • and on his accession to the throne the duchy becomes vested in his eon if he have one, but if he have no son then the duchy to remain vested in the throne for the benefit of any Bon that may be born to the sovereign." He (the Earl of Lincoln) believed the hon. gentlemen would miens he bad correctly stated the substance of the act ofpar liament. It would, therefore, be at once obvious that the present interest of the public in the Duchy of Cornwall war, as he had stated, nil. The prospective interest was he trusted, a very . remote one, namely, that when his ;opt highness the Prince of Wales ascended the throne, it would be competent for him, in ease he had no son, to include the revenues of the duchy of Cornwall in the arrangement made for the civil list. But that arrangement would only hold good until a Prince of Wales wan born, and then, as Duke of Cornwall, that prince would succeed to his inherit- ance ; so that,as he had said before, the public interest in the duchy of Cornwall was nil, and the prospective interest so little as not to be capable of being valued. Besides, supposing suck an arrangement, u he had supposed, was come to by which the revenues of the duchy were merged in the grant for the civil list which was made at the commencement of every reign, and a son should be subsequently born by whom the duchy income would at once be claimed as a birthright, in that cue the public would be saddled with the civil hat, whilst part of the consideration for it would be withdraws. But the returns annually furnished to parliament of the management of the revenues of the duchy of Cornwall formed one of the grounds on which the hon. member founded his motion. lie did not regret that these returns were annually furnished, for they could only show how well the property was administered ; but they were originally to be sent in by Lord Monteagle, when be was Chan cellor of the Exchequer, because during that time the public had a remote interest in the revenues of the duchy. At the same time, he was ready to admit there had been some mil' management lathe duchy property. The managers of that property had not in former times always consulted the interests of those whose rights they were bound to protect (Hear.) But why had not the bon. member given the house some instances of the mismanagement of which he com plained Mr. TRELAWNY.—I will do so in another week. Earl of LINCOLN.—If the hon. member had aid so be. fore, he (Lord Lincoln) would have reserved his preset speech until those samples of mismangement had bun brought under the notice of the house. But the hon. mem• her did complain of general mismanagement. He had ewe plained that the Duchy of Cornwall estates were managed' an arbitrary and tyrannical way. Bat he had been refuted in his statements by the right boa, baronet, the Home Secretary. For his own part he had no knowledge of any particular cases of hardship, and as for as charge of general mismanagement he must deny ii altogether. Now, he must remind the house that the Duchy of Cornwall was not to be looked at se was managed in the time of Mr. Burke. What they had to deal with was the management of its revenues by the council which governed the affeks of the duchy. At the period when the present council was formed there certsial/ was a gross mismanagement of the property of the duchy. It had been managed so as to extract as much as possible for the benefit of the life tonsil, without regard to the interfere of the future successor to the dukedom. Lord Duacennolle when at the head of the Woods and Forests, pat an end to the system of leasing for terms of lives, present and future. The system of taking fines for leases for lone terms of pen was abolished by Lord Duncannon. These changes Vero" advantageous to the saes ottho duchy, as to be likely to conduce to the circumstance of the Prince of Wales bong' in independent circumstances. The hon. member hod Steed that he could show in what manner the resenues of the duchy of Cornwall could be increased by no leas an 'meant than 60,0001. Mr. TRELAWNY.—I said both the duchies of Lit' cuter and Cornwall. The Earl of LINCOLN wished the hon. gentleman wall reserve his interruptions and explanations until the ant week. (A laugh.) But all he would at present say `NA that if the hon. member would only communicate to his the method by which he would be able to incense the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall by 60,0001., he (Ku l ' , Lincoln) would, as one of the council of that dual, UAW with the greatest pleasure and satisfaction to the hon. Inc* her, and wculd very probably enable him to dispel" eft tirely with the trouble of moving for any committee rays: entject. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He was, hose j ready! to admit that hardships had been inflicted on lose el the duchy tenants, but these were rendered as light a' s f'ff sible, and they were matters in which the public had n ea case. The remaining part of the hon. gentian!! referred to the salaries paid to the officers et the oaf! of the Duchy of Cornwall, and hem again be was rear ° did on" admit that in Mr. Burke ' s time there good But man geou y nda of for th ee e nsu .sc ring n the ol then oun ex ts isu p e ar;d h as sa ellori n gino_ ' been suppremed, indeed every office which had becess: " vacant since the birth of the Prince of Wales. At the e. time, he must express hie profound conviction, whlictfio these details, that they were mitten in which the publi c no interest, and consequent) no right whatever to eli ks for if the Prince of Wales chose to pa certain offi s _....e duchy the amount of salary which p leased bias, so had any tight to_guestion these payments. Sines the of the Prince of Wales the Marquis of Hertford, who Lord Warden of the Btannaries, at a salary of 211001. 11 r— h• had died. A great in, would have been inflicted ea La Mi ee k 4 .i b .o