The Express. — London, England, 1849-03-17 00:00:00

gm boom ran, tberofere, sidled es to eat the goverammt girt irk* bad bees dome of awa award by Lord *Mem eat she by the right boa. loarmet the member for Towne* who, in bit Oatmeal on the 14th of February, IltiWta MIA, mid, might be_ Me pressamM end wtwereir *Mt be Os eristey swim le etesimsets. he Mt he hid se ehente tis bal. m the mike ts submit to the art dm worm the tooth Mows moieolond 71/11; lasiseel maim ad see Mere ememersiel be Baba. mama to the hem a petrol Ow it psalm et esmosoMN to mho on astaado reseees, one to Mimeo *0 gnat WOW. wbeelleireemertwle with thereat& latomet that taw meet menet is expentiamo shaehl be readeoL Ho treated the goveramest sow to de the same—to Mow this good emmple, awl to ask the home, after .0 fie moms of the proper 4 emeaditere, whether is was 111 should be maintaked ? Ia wick' this, la asbod MM. miresomatele. No Ewa ash' be the w ere ihr limbs bee fen him • fair debtor aid creditor aceowna. Ham pow moat bad made out • Ukase-sheet, let them pookee ft; : e 0 o le d t them be tmopelled to mike me. else &hod M- I will "Met the you an edbeale ar tbe *metal espeerteme smile try the Chamellor of the Bitettemesr bst mar. The temews selbeele was 851,110.030; the expaMatine Befaeskete; Merles • sembie sa /11.147.000. By the toort km, ISIS. the mollies wee 3,137.0001. ; sad thermoses is MASAN& Ivory ciao who Mad that statement mud bawl eggeweed of it. Toe c wavy goofiness seamed to foam that Is (fi. Hume) was no friend to the &men ; but he would give Wm a plan of good &diet. Let them lay midi all peel, holing, ad discus this matter as me k whisk *ay wore alike taterested. They ought to do es kr thek sera ktoresia, fir they were likely to wait relief beim run)—id the 'sly way la whisk they as h al eir dt=r iat eras by a hop rained= of utilise. He wadi set now eater ibe question of agabliimenk; that would be for saber guest modiderstina. He amid take the some of the boom es ho voodoo; mu if be fmtmately samoosiod in ferrying it, gat:mutest wall only his to pootgeme the estimates until they had made up smelt as amount as be desired. At the same time. sot bsiag maims to d1:411 illisehiss Ia their way, be should be happy to vote a romemble own on ac eouat *bit statement was before the house. (Hem) Sir H. WILLOUGHBY mid he bad much plasm* in Wog able ft somint this prosaities, believiag that k would testi, vetoes as ammembol ediskisionlim of the national ikameer. The ISOM gospmed wee throbritly jniallod by a variety of reamoo. amengst Mims tm "bat happiest last weeks. In deo kit two mom tionsolail bees on kerma of between ohm and tea gilliom i tbe oadsoal Ask. He =tiff* treed of the (kungen*, of tie Exelsemor beim al lowed to go ea the eke Basimigie, sad sell por tion of teath tom thee to thee, to Mee gooses*. The only light yet throws es the gement meet flogooss wee a Mato meat of the right boa. gredeemes. la the debate ma Hr. Cohlen's motme, that the hems sa d lb..pen wool probably be equal. Zs melt o this • he thought it mon probable then wall be • great . dee Agleam. Lass year be bed miterwidimatod the expeaditnn by 1,700,0001., Wig Ms three onnose—the Molar war, the Irish dimes. and Om mese ea the navy estimates. (Hsu ' bees.) Tlio Melt kw berme argued that, se these thee* mess of bakery wow set Ukt ly te seem again, he amid be dila, by a rodosibm of about • mike sod a kW hi estimstea, to =Mho dodderer obi& mould early errs heia Ma esamillem M the moo leek% the China massy, sod Wow saws. Nut was it osepesbobio there would be • Lags wskaordiaary he. be the war k ladle? Already there bad bees a vote of 110,0004 he the Irish dhow ; and he felled times wee already an snow ma the navy estimates of 32 44•1 1 .. of which gone anknation would be required. (Hear, beer.) The Mime" as they were called, were becoming lees moil lam as index to the air teal expenditure. The navy east bad rhea is three ran Irma about 140,0001. to wow (Rear.) It was a fast that in the last year about bell • million had hem spat co the navy estimates mesa than was voted. ( a ll= Though the 26•1 t clause of the Appoopria.lon Act the ma voted for one rtes to be applied to ameba,. it expressly mid that the wet MGM ihsaid set be ensamied. Hems, the constitutional Ord* shish enabled the bow to matzo' the expenditure was einoPletak tot at swim. (Hear, bear.) On 26th Feb. 1147. the Sturetary to the Alsairalty had stated that 11,010 amen were to be estrelled in the dock-s and come, m a omt of 20,0001. ; ad log an min mu 1150,0001 had bean spout le No ital. Unless the boas* (Auld denim NOM method of preventing the resurrect* of this, it mom mo their voting at MIL they Might as well leave time le be voted by the Booed et Admiralty themselvee. (Her, bear.) It was most he. portent not to allow the govemmeat to ma say more his debt: it woo squally imprtant,bsibre soft thoeslimalos,to have helm this ouch a statement as the boa usher In Montrose new wed far. He was consisted k kik to enable our poodastive interests to cowls will this. of re ima rre, mem mem» of real mosey mail be Mtn (Hear, berg.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was aware t h at the discussions es the estimates were gesmally of • very discursive character, sad that it was difficult so eon. Ise them to the precise question before the base. He maid not follow the two 'hoe. seemben is some of them take which they had introduced, said which wen net neer. asp to the motion, to which he would take himself as We as posible. 'fine was saulo • ••••• peragaidtai e( the hes. member for Montrose ; he bad frequistly aged ea the boom to reverse that which so hr as he (the Cbenaller of the E, egarm) knew bad bees the immemorial maxim on the oersions • and certainly the lager he raised in 018 house, ihe more we. he convinced .1 the whelom of those rules for the conduct of Its business which had bees laid down is fanner Hesse, and had been sanctioned by the merinos of assessrive parliaments. The rule that no vote Mould be prepcerd in ways and means until justified by a vote in supply, we. founded in good mess ; and w= is tl: estimates prepared by the different destests had been Wed, it then became the duty of the Chancellor of the Ex- I chequer to submit to the house the ways and means by which I le proposed to meet that expenditure. It would be a sorry answer, at a time when an enemy's cruiors wire interrupt tog oar trade in the channel. and threatening to tondo our sharer, to tell those who claimed protection, that inasmuch es the engem revenue was falling off, it was impossible ads. irately to protect our trade or our okra He doubted very much whether such a refuel would tend to prevent the revenue hoes falling still further. The kn. mem ber for Montrose bad drawn a emaperisoa be. tweets the management of public and private revenues. There was a great difference between the ems ; end La use mist, they wire not only sat aselegess, but asme ftiodly oppoed to each other. Wks a saes heal Ids b asen inmeasing, he might be judged is spealles mere freely ; but it had always been laid dews is that he.., and he held the doctrine strongly, that se impeovema k the remove would justify vannemseary enandknes. (Hear, bear ) The right \mimosa th e member far Tema,* had laid thh down as shangly as a mes amid de, lathe in which he announced a surplus MMUS of Eve= be said he did not consider that that nallise balled bits is Galling on the house to vete a ang strivesle of armature qte i d d . thlt whicha h e th l i s l os. masher s laet t et i „ t u IC I SeetT- Mr certain redactions in hie deauthe expmellture, go to his tenants and any: " Hark( dose this, I ma sew ethrd to Yana jar rests, sat I will Beet upsa you is Oars for what yes have Maws and whisk yea ma fairly sad joilly pay ?" 'WM was the seam sp r it wee svid, the duty of Ms anialef el the larbar passe with marl to the ammo a the artistry. If that Income were at soy time some tins sallasat to cover the expeudftsm, a fair miglit would he the imperative day el da of te papas sine esmition el = y oga' tam n ews ism= to that whisk woe awe ihe expooditme. Hee aria the allatiestmen adal Tat woad delermia the mune se an Maks% wore in direct sprain to theme whisk amid delsmase the seam to be I=terbseL l a i the . at illllMMl aa Nagy La whiche the salsa, it bed elms bees was ft wee repeal either to Wpm or to anlione a low moat of tastier ; sad the assomby @last seam son% not hem the mere ordinary nests tithe year. bat es $ raMeadea of tbe measure pre paid by the giver._ mat a the day is reheat* to a lest axam aiseuat of tandias. In 1816, it was dose the right ha. bare et (S ir a. Feel) Ilms_Jelipleild the 'madames of the imam me, which weal albsewhe brae teminsied s the 6th Ara. Is 184% the right hes. krona made hie stemma ea the 11th of Mask whoa he proposed to Wpm, the imam tax. The faosaiai alb IsA sow at the head el the goaramat bed made a stetmesst lets amnia at a sway =whoa he was area leader the .seemly el mass if the imam tax. With these = l.l.l exem:lises, the lea. ssiabst might go bask to 1831, and he weal dad only me ew ia wsh lb. Masada samemest hod bees mole at on arty reada the masa. If he would rase te 1836, the =ea wain mash hod boas mid h sosassata with maters, he would lad that the automat was mode on the 14th August, Lard , whoa making his ilasasiel statement is as 14thFs . bedrid : ThougA I thus early Mate the atteatisa et the base sad the rale te the subject, it.is isepeedide to do is gay tat a gaud newer. It will be gale la vats he me to at. tempt saran like socureey se to the mama a expeolli. an to the amass year." Tot the bee. webs, be as Nur twee sow WWI ter aa okr rotors the soma of eoptaditere la the sawing yea. Aad r= be remembered that the soliastee of the three great anises had already begs laid is the table of the home, sad had bees awe time la the hands of Ma. members; these Ismael oar tombs or MOM St the whole ouipealiters. Es bad already elated is wag WIMP, tad 119 poldie Mount of the miessibuseras estimates woad ameba very for short of those of het year ; and be had she 1104 its early period of the m rsi e se ta would be the raga expeaditure of the yesr. The wadi hod boss aid data ► by the right Imo. am awake he llmeMi (Mr. Maass) is the apart wash he bad sods to the Imam sommittee of 1138 wee the sound see Na their ilea asp should be to emertalt the aujewsa LMm vials "hi* the anal drupe foe the pulite anise add be 11111 and, Mtn yaks the atiorme, to state the name Off seeYaq the no segay aspeadilara lash was the peheapie that always reviled the proessiage of the beam is area with Ada ameessit boa el Fames ask it was their ese o smartens the aida whisk the of the • ormalay reasoc iardarsay wits he best weld he 110. thmelhoo, invited the hiaserabls Ouldalllo la tate the dissanba en the isthmus which wee the bat tea he the espenditnre. He 'add assure him the I wan ally to listen to the pespositioas that allyr:_p lla n is tismaa min nobs for a reeled's rx pieggigge t o were praised ma y to dhow the esti. men, and to state their raiser tim ae whith pan s Es ma new only ripest the meersaso he pave as a Swims samba tbet the he the year— essiembig mieedhateas tl2 • mum sassat as bet yew—walk be within the income of the seasay. The lisa ms =sa said that La year there were miss amid a s Thy ha km year, THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 17, 1849. bed ir ru s im putie• of the extra expe it se nmy ss net • peram for time wore her pia with whoa be Meads sa aromas thaw his dew hem Mend Me Obanseller of the Inelemeer. 41„w i smat3 demehrem or other, in say seder bstwout the tummy sad Atialielty, the lamer always had the het of as intgain. Velar these eireasailemes, maid the home weeder it the ibet, ant the roam emir Nos. I and 2, had in the list pear ernenated M I/44421. He had sever attempted to die gabs dr hes--imired, he had stated last ear-that the wailer of eams brae had greatly a the number amid, mad Or isles it meld b. brought down, • imps MOM WY inevitable. Elora et the causes of the same had been in operation daring the racos.sr. spd From a return made up to the Ist 1848, wt instead of the sump cost having been IR 11d. per seas, It had been durirg the Int tea wades d the par VIL and it had taken ten months to IPA dews Ma sumer of 8,07 earn above te vote le Sib saw baker k. Whatever responsibility was a t tached M Met mam a lea demnsi entirely to Lord Auckland's ad minlinationof 01111 Aliaillaty. tits right bon. friend near Ilia (Sir F. Baring), had nothing whatever to do with it. To bin (lir. Ward) it had bees • subject of peep-teal seilletf. es impair, If not eadangering, the administration einem' affairs by his late lam ntod Mend Lord Auckland, which had, he believed, been °Deducted with as pore a spirit seed with as ggrreat a regard for the publio iaterest ea had ever bees masifuetad by say man holding a public situation. (Hear, hear.) And he would take that opportunity of &- dares, as the malt d two years' experience, that he had sum knows a public man who had a better sense of tic resposeibilities which attached to office than that sable het By his untiring industry, by his haparlleliz sa la the da, pettemare, and by lb perfect self .osa he had the highest esteem both of his Filial awed of sad he regretted that his departure Omit' have robbed Ilm of the credit of a more commaiell deli Onion at affairs. (Cheers.) Every cause which bad led to earn is part years bad now been removed. While the Ad miralty had area a sufficient margin we regarded the ▪ her of am, they bad also brought the number within. Ms Emile of the vete, and he felt sure that his right keel dismi would maintain his ',safest-ground firmly end dgeressly. He should be very much surprised if the pass year was not the last one aerosol in a time of peace. (Hear.) With regard to the estimates of the prow= year, the ells morsels which had taken place on the national expenditure had enikeratly warned him that in sober. tins them to the hems be had no easy task to perform. (Hear hear.) Ns 0d ant soy that they would please no party ; Miami he be lieved that there was both there and in the country • petty of medial and moderate men to whom any goverament might rashly appeal, if it showed en honest desire to emalete meneeny Ira efficiency in the public service. (Hear, hear.) He knew, however, that there were also two parties, one of whom always thought that the government had done too lit. tie' while the other were constantly complaining that they had does too much. He was aware that there were MINI who thought that, however the circumstances of this word might vary, in dealing with the great bulwark of England, not a ship or a man should be Usselsed • mad he knew too, full well, that be had it li Immmlire neighbourhood bon members who would tel Ilia that rice redactions which he was about to =epees were merely a miserable instalment of what the country had a right Ist expect. Hoer, bear," from Mr. Hume, succeeded, by a laugh) He had thought so. (Loughter.) Such gentleman would not be satisfied with anything short of the stusdarded 1835, a standard which, so far as the navy was sonewasell, had been selected with us little regard to past =pales= as to the present wants recd requirements at the seastry. (Cheers.) It was not a very creditable coincidence that, while all parties in that house had concurred in taking thill stembed at the moment, because they were engaged in a Mures for popularity and place, no party bed subsequently adhered to it. In the very nest year, without the slightest =, the number of men was raised, under Lord o's government, from 15,000 to 22,000, and under the administration of the right hen. baronet the member fur Tameworth it wan further increased to 26,000. Tile somber was then released to 27,500 m+ n, and in the year 1846 49 the number was increased, with the addition of marry, to 43,000 am. It was impossible to swigs specific reasons for sash inshaations. Something must be take& ea trust, some. thing yielded to discretion ; but certain it was that the Hems of on had acquiesced in every harms (Hear.) New, happily, leered of leaving the house to either of the two entamees, theetemmittee of last year had recommended a mid kessure, in the propriety of adopting whiat, al lie stated in August lest, the Admiralty entirely concurred. Re then stated that the Admiralty agreed with the committee that the navy was the prop , r arm of Eastland, and that twain bat an examive and ill-managed expenditure could deprive its( the respect which it had previously enjoyed. He far ther mid that the Admiralty were prepared to adopt the reemamemistra of the committee, that there should be a gametal raisins of the naval eta. ions. The 'swims bad besa revised, and be thought that with a reducion of 3,000 men the Admiralty could provide satisfactorily for the honour and protection of the country. ( C heers.) Sines that time his hoc. friend the member for Montrose had taken the matter into his capacious head. (Laughter.) To I" ill (Mr. Ward's) great surprise, however, instead of adopting the standard of 1835, his hon. friend had created a new one of his own. He thought, per haps, that if he proposed to go back to 15,000 seamen, 2,000 boys, and 9,000 marines, he could hardly expect the house to adopt his mmesel. He had, therefore, chosen • very conve nts= barmy boos-thirty-five thousand met-where he branded to stop till he could go further. ("Hier, hear," hom Mr. Hume.) Now, of course he did not think that a recedes of 8,000 men from the number voted last Ease was so objectionable, so imprudent or so umafi as the reduction al 16,000 pearl by hi. honouroble Mend the member tor the Wed Hiding (Kr. Cobden), but at the same time it was much too large, much too imprudent, and much too unsafe for the govern ment to meat to it. The government proposed a Mu ll= of 3,000 men ; his hon. friend's proposition went 5,000 below that of the government, and after his boa. friend's mums had been stated it would be for the home to decide between the two. He came now to the changes in form which would be hand in the estimates. la that respect every recommendation of the committee had been attended to. In vote No. 1, at p. 8, the house would find tit. monthly excess of men during the present financial year," tads, No. 5, the " scientific branch," inched lag the east of surveys ; under No. 10, " naval stares for the building, repair, and outfit of the fleet," etc ; under No. 11 "new works, improvements, and repairs ;" under N 0.13 was an analysis of the expenditure of 1847-48; under 18 the borne department disappeared from the esti mates altogether, being transferred to the miscellanea= esti mates ; and seder what wu No. 19 the whole cast of the contract packet service e as put under the head of Post office department, 50,0001. being thus added to the eaboelleneous estimates. Now the house had here not only the gross estimate and the net estimate, but they had also the revised net estimate ; in other words, the estimate from which his right hon. frond the Chancellor of the Exchequer deducted 288,0001. in August hatooder votes 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, and 19, which were given In • separate table in pegs 2. The house would, however, pseeske that the gross estimate was the only fa ce r point of empadama between them estimates and the estimates of last part hemmis what bad hitherto appeared as appropriations la di time now paid into the Exchequer, and dee country readout the benefit. The rose =revised estimate on 19 votes for 1848-9, was 7,518,8101. The decrees* on votes 1. 1,6, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, and 19 amsaated to no lees than 1,703,3021. • the intros'. IPS isles 3, 9,14, and 18, emanated to 12,2001. The apps said maim, was 1 691,1021. , From this was to be deducted She mirk et mes is, for the home department, transferred Mike makialhasses estimates, 63,9501 ; 611,8621. being de dueled he morass pockets, and 183,1951. for the packet emeals, stores, repairs, &a, there was a 80,8071., leaving as the actual Ewing on votes No. 1 to 17, 842,2951., es compared with the =revised gross estimate of last year ; the saving on the contract packets being 25,6481., and on Clama's vereels, storm, repairs, &0., 75,5151. The do ea the two esti mates was 938,850, and if there were deducted for saving by revised estimate of 180-0,_138,0001., the net actual saving WOG the estimates of 11040 would mem& to 730,8661. these Now, be might be told that there was some trath la figures, sad that he ed to make a d e 1849 between the revised mature of this year and d as Musky turd. Many of the ealeaktimas ands milady tensed es that ppouinmt, and it was to that he edirlhatea the monstrous dissspeades as to the urea of saving which, by may been reckoned at upwards Of 900,0001., while others had made it as low se 808,0001. Bet if the revised estimate end the marl vete of bet year were compared. the result would be the The sea wised estimate for 1848-9, with the drafts la aid de amounted to 7,6101., ths dedwithe of MAIM , left 7,518,6101 , . a 5726 the actual sad vote Or lest melon. The mallpeoposed for this year was 8,20,7404 The apps. sore eavki was 1,278,0001. ; and, deduminethe estimate for the throe wore transferred, there appeared a eadag on the net revised naval votes, Nes. I to 17, of 449,9011.; assaying in des peeked estimate of 66,0841. brought the mead , as semparal with 1848-9, to 616,9721., and with I. dd now paid into the Exchequer, aneonatiag 214,1111 M, they arrived main at • nuns Mai of MOIL He admired firmthe figures were somplient4 s a g ma m a rikeetmd. bat such was, he believed, the maul saving as somparts4 with the groan revised rammer et last year. Ile reek he told primps that the h a d l oon espis ha r di mmatry, and had & a l nom them had performed. In menroma s o u b y hu m ea the of Mark, 1848, be hal shows a saving of 416,111111.. pmkelpelly on wo steam seaddnery, and mos s i i. rd le also held oa ts redesign is sires, ste. of making a real of IKON& 208,0001. wee altrumeds shwa off in Auger t mad lam re- Mil elid : KbyNbemothe. .o7 9....soc, weraid ia I :n en tr t t elmee phat "646lT , ln ie what ainst iblie way sta ire th i si t iag 4 : ande hm a d ilsovisavee redeelea lep t e lai Ldr ami a be Wilei si th at " i fr e or a it tea Mi si . m : hismb bs. tralh er el lld. 1848, when the Admiralty for the bet time arra ihe laremet hs4 is ite 7e rriater the fo7 r V al pon,a7 bYtakingib. right hon. the ego of merle for (anabolic as the bete of the ad-, mac he the year. The result had been a rear ties ands the head of naval pairis of 27,01101. 17sikr vete No. 2 there was a decreer me meaparedwith tar name Tees last year, of 115,0511. Thine they obtained the whale beads,/ the ream:time, both in the number ram mod in the seat ef Lr c i virons. In vote No. 8 there we. sa imam of 9111., AV in the surveyor's depmelmemd of re Admiralty, of which was to Wpm that sad la pima' it from being se tp/treat as = lll lramt a ponied &sages. (Hear hear.) He mmo a= oldie lora peaseerwirveyer, without saying beci be lad Menai be for :m the ad vemteges whi to his rim. M eh the ha had trot Wasniess was a greater efficle- In a t h e =r em an d_ elkla d fie delkyartie. The vote for the aestie expedition M.M. Met* dead quite imedell i at eat wash for sea sm emedffilem, *we was am to Me effiimate d 24,11231. Time mesh* an *ea of he the sioney the great Lamm. maim parallel th the Bight of It bad been , bads quertabsed that the country had, as usual, rid dearly the sequisitien el eeogrephisal knowledge ia Africa. The Nib a my. Midileten, by whom the ram was int wide/takes, had been sourileed ; but soother geolie• man, with • nem homilite ametitutica, who mompaird kiln, had sunived, sad was Retort out again to complete ffice Moen which had beta sownseseed. Under vete ll—Me erahlihmeats at bens—there was a reduction of arising principall feem diminished superlatendesee VC, dockyards, as tw i ts mmaded W the committee of last per. Oa vote No. 8, under the bead of wain paid Ia the dock yards, there was a »deaden of 866M1. ; but of that sea 40,0001 was reduced by Me revision in August last. The estimates fry this year issimied 8,9261. for additional here in the dockyard smithsriss. mod 8,0001. for servers of the yards, suctioned by tke semaktee. For this the public had r aired mon than ea equivalent in a redaction of wages to the assmat cf 62,6091. On mote No. 10, re ferring to stems there was • reduction of 342,8021. as compared with last year. Last year the vote wag 1,611,6211 • this year it was 1,168.8891. The reduction wa s composed of these items. The timber vote of last year was 489,0001 ; this year it was 386,0001. The vote for other stores lest 75u was 655,0001 ; this year it was 492,0001.—the total saving on these two items being 161,0001..er hi& we effected without trenchieg at ellen the e Mau of the establishments. The reduction which took place mosisted in the amount of consumption. Instead of 28.000 hods of timber, the estimate was for 21,860. On hemp there was a saving of 12,0001., principally owing to a tall in the price. Under the head of coals there wee an increase of 7,000!. The estimate for contracts for 24-eliterraneen steamers was lees than last year by 108,0001. The Admiralty began the year with • army liability for engines, amounting to nearly 160 0001. ; 20,0001. was put down to meet the wants which might arise in restrict of steam machinery and steamers. Under vote Nn. 11, for new works, the gross diuresis was 296,6671.: but 620,0001. having been etre& off la the revision of lest year, the net durum for the meson year was only 234,6671. Those who examined the estimates carefully, would find the effillalla possible improvement in the maner in which the items were stated. 'There was no nays ti fication or uncertainty about them. It would be satisfactory to the house to hear that nearly all the great works in the dockyards were complete. including those at Woolwich, Chatham, Pembroke, and Deptford. Very little remained to be dote at Portsmouth. The only heavy works remaining were thus at Devonport, at Keyhans, and at Bermuda. Though the amount proposed for Keyham (120,00014 might appear large, the Admiralty bad had great difficulty in inducing the contractors to re duce the amount below 160.0001, making the total i xpenditure on that account 599,000/., or about half the sum originally contemplated. We had now, however, got Into a better system of keeping accounts in the dockyards, which be was confident would lir attended with the best results. As to the works abroad, th..se at Bermuda were in the least satisfactory condition of all. There was no place where so much money had been spent, with so little to show for it. (Hear, hear,) The works at Bermuda had been going on ever since 1815, and up to three or four years since no one had ever heard any. thing like an intelligible notion of what had been done, was doing, or wee about to be done. Then bad been ell sorts of plans proposed, all of which had been tried, and all of which had been surcessively abandoned. During the past three or four years, however, the operations had proceeded upon • distinct and intelligible principle ; the total cost of completing them, it was ascertained, would be 143,0001., but this outlay, if the house so pleased, could be spread very well over several years. That the works at Bermuda, so long and expensively in lemma ought to be completed, weak, he thought, be admitted on all hands : the importance of the place as • naval station with relation huh to the Weet Indic a and to the United States was beyond dispute; the house, how ever, bad the matter in their own hands, and must cur elms their own judgment upon it. Speaking generally with refer noe to the public works under this department, be would Omens that during the years which the hon. member for Montrose insisted upon as the pattern period these works were wholly suspended, with this dangerous result in pros put—that, before long, Great Britain, as far as her naval stations wore coneereed, would not only loss her claim to be considered a great naval power, but would be in • position exposing her at any moment to a moot perilous blow from any other naval power that chose to assail her. (Hear„ hear.) Even in the extravagance which had followed that period of excemive parsimony, the outlay of public money had not been at all characterised by that noblemen of expenditure which had been exhibited by many of cur railway companies, whoa affairs were directed by men reported of the highest mercantile sagacity. Inly upon it, the best argument that diplomacy could use to check the angry passions which the wisest nations were subject to, was to show that their indulgent* would be dang.rous to those who yielded to them. (Hear, hear.) In the 13th vote r 'hfisoellaneous, there was a decrease of 13,1421., occasioned by the relinquishment of the plan of coast guard drill, the mons already expended upon which, however, under the d of Capt. Stewart, had been most use fully employed. In the 14th vote, for half pay, there was an incases* elf 2,6121., or, upon the revised vote of last you. :of 12,6121., an Increase oreadoned by the umber of ship that had Mu p.W off. As to the half pay there milted grave misconceptions; the hon. mem ber for Meatemse sensed to regard the half.pay list as a sort of government for the sone, and nephews, end what not, of the . God help these parties, if they had no better resource than half-pay ! (Hear, hear.) The sim ple fact was, that the officers whose rams occupied the half pay list were, to a large extent, the very men who, having served their country during the war against France, h ad, when that war ceased, been deemed to have merited their country's grateful ears. Of the 3857 officers in receipt of half-pay, no fewer than 1916 were wholly incapacitated, as the result of their gating cervices; and the hon. gentleman need not her that the number was not diminishing. Between 1830 and the present time death had been at its work with these old servants of the country. In that period 2,034 names hod been struck off the list by death. The government would take good are that no improper augmentation in the list should take place; but it must be remembered, if there was no prospect of promotion, or of future benefi's to be arrived at, no man who could get a crust in any other profession would enter the service. (Hear.) To the next vote, 9,7571., for good service pensions and snowiness, he belie ved not even the hon. gentleman behind him would object. As to the =lnner Ia which they pensions had been allotted doting the put thee years, he would readily appeal to the judg ment of the whole service. (Hear, hear.) In the vote for civil pens there was an increase of 6,3131 ., necessarily oe d by the reductions which had taken place is the various yards, involving, as • matter of more Patin, superannuation allowances in • number of cases. Its the 17th vote, for transports, there was a diminution of 700,3001., arising from the cirmierstance that there would this year be fewer reliefs than bad been known for many years past. The Post-office vote spoke for itself. He would only, in reference to it, state that when the Holyhead Dem psey should think fit to propose reasonable terms, the go- verement would willingly transfer the whet service between Holyhead and Dublin to the Holyhead Company. (Hear, hear.) As to future changes in the dockyards, these would in future doped in great measure upon tie respective heads of the mils. And, in their selection of the heads themeless, the Board of Admiralty must look lea to the mere unties of past services than to the psueeut aptitude he active and energetic work in the easffidene. With rekeenes to the building of ships that took pines Let per, material errors were circulated. We berm, sertaiely, is 1816, with an immense capital of Mtalottot and we bed meat it lavishly. Sines that year, the ca vessels et all rates was 176 ; there having been 403 Mina op, or cat down, or lost, and 304 built, the smoky he sew building was clear. There had been sin satire imp is the calibre of the guns mounted by *hoe monstrise, wassitating a Make change on our mater sod the pdadpie of ship-bedhling itself had, es a of mese, boss to an humbug extent changed. The battle d tbe Nile was haght with 18-pounders ; sew, 60 ma 411-emsders wore mama in all skips The at which sides wen building had been very much exaggerated reeently. Meet bus. memben would have seen • dada which it was snorted that there were oe hue them OT dips of all classes on the stocks. This was set emir en absurd enemies, but it was impossible to be true. Therm were emly 38 Minot all rates sow building, and dummy moss prebehty ems in the writer of the statement MM. taken into his eakadatioa ships, the orders for lenildhqr whisk had hem long since cancelled. It was the Means& of the Admiralty to adhere to the pro taTrlaid down by the surveyor of the navy nest Ave years, and to carry n oat in all its_parts. Then was another point on which he must touch. It had hem asserted that ships, if used well, would last 40 or 60 years. This was a mistake. The ammo duration of ma of war was 15 years, and at the ad .1 that period they ero de:went large repairs, which won shaft as good as rebuild ing them. The Canopus had been hold qq as a medal of what a ship ought to be, and the Midi of time that meal had endured bad else hum& the woods of meek miessamiimm. It had been ask id why ddps eta simi lar Mild, mist bating as long , had set been constructed. The Campus was taiga is 17911, sad she cost almost immediately after the was matered 16,0001. to put her into repair. At Ave different perish enhespently—namely, is 1816, 1826, 1831, 1842, and 1841—she had undergone repel= which amounted in the aggregate to 136,6231, a sum whisk would have seamed to have bunt two similar ships. The Nelson, main, bad been cited as another example; but the mousy wasted is deesenticas sad caudate of that vessel was eat 1111•1104 NA thus she wee war it it service. TM beastifel system of 'WHAM Seppingd, of penny semi sterna to men-ef-war, had cost the country 1,500,000 L, which was entirely thrown away. (Hear km.) He bed little mere to lay, save to thank th e hoa gie he the indulgesee shoes Whim. He trusted the navy wee k Salk a state eels lathe all those who desired to see naiads bee navel superiority. The Board of vimiaNy was taking 111111111M111 to enure respendbtliqq on Ms pat of all the hoods el depsrtneests It mil tbe bevmstiee of the sand envier, eat tbe Ina umber he Mostressermild find melba pert of the peommat ths stressed dsake to carry out lbe na n doei s m ilid mama of econemy, consistently with what they tbe Me lateens dike country. He begged, there. he., to coach& by propodng that the number of seamen, marines, end boys employed in the maim year in the navy he Ind at 40,000. be T y b r eurrimi e . H vo U te ll ha E him. vin esi g d b i l it n e p is t e eandene ftla wbe beigi lbe ol chlit tb thi asa bom. sexton: , Ma of the eidnvinumos end waste eammithil in the naval department would be polarised at the sera made by those who violet to 'RIM a reamed= .1 Ik. expen diture. The his. vet tuber hed amend that the navy was is paha Mee. Se had sever bawl my Mew state. matt ttesperom sump*. lion boa pallsmatdeustios. Never was it acknowledged that any errors had been com mitted by the navel authorities. But was it not a reproach to the homes to have sanctioned such a system of =Wave games as that which the hoe. gentleman had exposed ? The hon. gentle man had stated that in 1816 there w.s • large fund of ships forming the naval stock of the empire. If lit turned to Hansard,. he would find repeated attempag re corded therein as having bean made by him (Mr. Hume), in 1818 to 1826, to order to pat a atop to this extravagance. Within thew years, no late than 23,000,0001. had been wasted on the navy. But how was it that the hon. number had discovered all these extravagances and miedoings ? He had moved the naval estimates during the last two yeses according to his own statement, and how was It that he had before detected the faults he now laid bate? Whence did the light break in upon him ? The oommittas it was that had brought all these wasteful proceedings under the public eye, that erammittee for moving the nomination of which he had been so much abused. He must say, to the credit of the noble lord who sat near him, that be de served the utmost credit for his efforts and la bours, but still there would be very great difficulty before any results were a' tallied. Every member of the committee of whatever party he might be, had also dote his utmost to promote the objects of the inquiry, and to 'afire* the errors of the past 'management of the navy. But notwith standing the hon. gentleman's admissions as to the past, he must bear to be told that the actual management of the navy was not a bit better than it halt been. The number of ships that were building, and the quantity of stores that was required, did not accord with the professions of economy that had been made. With respect to one point on which he bad been somewhat unfairly subjected to blame, namely, as to he effect produced up= honest hard-working artisans and shipwrights by the redue Lion of wen which he proposed, he must beg leave to say that he had net bean aware of the manner in which reduc tions of the establishments bore on individuals affected by them. All he had to say wee that men were enticed front other occupations, and led to expect pr rmanent work in the service, and then the Admiralty in a sudden fit of economy— (a laugh)—yes, a sudden fit of economy, which con trasted strangel and even violently, with their habitual extravagance, a vest number of these ship wrights, and threw them without resource upon the labour market. When he was told, as a reason why the charges ger building and repairing ships were so heavy, that the reentry required a certain lone to be kept up, he must say that the mode of keeping up that naval force by letting the @We rot ia harbour was most wasteful. Why not bare allertain proportion always at tea in turn ? The fault lay in the house not looking more narrowly into the esti mates before they were proposed in committee of supply. It France and Belgium the ministers were compelled to justify every item in their respective budgets before com mittees of the assemblies, revious to being permitted to propose them in the Houses of Assembly. He had vainly tried to enforce the same system here. He could not under stand why the estimates should not be referred to a com mittee up stairs before they were proposed in committee of supply. He made these remarks, because he thought that by perseverance—(hear, hear)—he should be able to succeed in compelling the minirers to take the coulee he pointed out. Let there be oblivion guaranteed for the past, provided the government entered upon a new course, now the errors of former administrations had been discovered and admitted. There had also been some very severe reflections made upon him, as if he had grudged the half pay of the naval (Meets. He did not grudge any pay for past services, but he did object to see young men entering the navy and thrusting aside older mn, who were compelled to pass their lives in the receipt of half pay whilst they were burning to be actively employed in the service which they loved. His hon. friend (Mr. Ward) had stated that the service of the navy errs carried on independent of patronage. That might be true as far as Lord Auckland was concerned, and he hoped it would pries true for the future, but certainly it was not so es regarded the post, when patronage was certainly the governing principle. The hon. secretary for the admiralty bad expressed • hope that the house would not support his amendment; he would, there fore proceed to state the grounds upon which he moved it, in order at least to enable honourable numbers to understand what it was he proposed. He had taken as the bean of his calculation of the number of men required for the navy, not the favourite year 1836 , but an average of the five years from 1835 to l inclusive, during which period the mean number of men employed in he navy was 31,460. The house was now sated for 40,000, whilst in the year 1840, when the Syrian war was raging, there were only 34,000; and when the noble lord, the Foreign Seers-' Lary, proposed to add 7 000 marines to the naval force , he (Mr. Hume) had unsuccessfully opposed him. But he did not desire to bring the number of men down to the average of 1835-9, nor yet of 1840. But simply to reduce them to 35,000. Was he rash in asking the house to descend again to the level of the years 1835-1639 ? He would even be contented if this was effected gradually, provided it was done ; and of that the hon. gentleman might be quite persuaded the country would at length make sure. Down the number must go. Would the house believe that the number of ships at present was 460—namely, 208 in ordinary and 252 in commission, added , to which there were 32 ships now building. Let them put en end to building altogether. The proportion of ships employed on foreign stations since the year 1835 had very greatly increased. On the Pacific and south-east coast of America station there were, in 1835, 14 eltig end 2,091 man. In 1848 there were on the same nation ships and 6,431 men, snowing an Juergen of 12 ships and 3,340 men on this station. On the west coast of Africa and the Cape of Good Hope there were employed, in 1835, 13 ships and 1,065 men. In 1848 there were 37 ships and 4,647, making an increase of 24 ships and 3,682 men. On the Mediterranean station, where, according to Sir :0:51. Cockburn, ono ship-of-the-line and 2 frigates were a sufficient squadron in times of peace, there were, in 1835, 23 ships and 6,236 men : in 1848 there were 31 ships and 8,337 men, making an increase of 8 ships and 2,101 men. Now, he would ask whether there was not on these three stations an excess of ships and men, and whether 35 ships were not capable of doing all the duty there was required in those seas ? All he asked for was, that • redaction of 8,000 espied the proposed reduc tion of 3,000 of the government, should be agreed to. Now what was the proposition which be submitted to the house? There were 69,000,0001. collected in the course of the year; and out of that sum, and not out of the 11,000,0001. he proposed to make reduction,. There were 41 millions expended in collecting the revenue; but he was convinced that 2 millions annually would clear the whole expense. The estimates were characterized by most extraordinary extravagance ; and the confessions of that night could not lesen the anxiety to diminish the expenses, for it was now admitted that they were in a condition to call upon the government to have every department overhauled. (Hear, hear.) The cost of collecting the revenue was as much now that 700 articles had been struck off the list as when there were 1,100 articles on which it was collected. He contended, sad would repeat, that 2,000,0001. should cover the whole charge • but if they employed in one case nine commissioners, and in another seven commissioners, to do the work of one, they could not expect to have any limit to their expenditure. (Hear, hear.) In addition to this, he would make the crown lands productive, and in the civil list ,he would make a considerable reduction. (Cheers.) Why should they have three or four pensioned chancellors, with 5,0001. a year, when one acting chancellor would mace ? Was it not possible that by abolishing the meek sovereignty in Ireland they might save 100,0001. a year? And was it not possible after the exhibitions they bad had with regard to the navy, ordnance, and army to make great reductions in those departments ? And In the colonies again, was it not monstrous that three or four millions a year should continue to be paid for their management when the people of England actually needed the necessaries of life? (Cheep.) He would ask whether out of that 69,000,0001. it could be denied by any person who had looked into these estimates that a large sum might be spared? (Hear, hear.) But if they wished to economise they must reduce the number of their men to the average to which he had referred, and must determine, as be hoped they would, that title vote should be reduced to 35,000 men. (Cheers.) Sir F. BARING concurred with the hoc gentleman who had just sat down in thinking that it was a great misfortune that that house sometimes looked with very large and liberal views at the public expo: &are, whilst at other times they were inclined to throw themselves into the opposite extreme, and to reduce the expenditure below what was absolutely essential. (Hear, bear.) Having been a member of the committee which had sat upon this subject he was inclined to admit that owing to irregularities or a went of system, there had been an expenditure which might have been sued. Still, they must remember the cir cumstances of the case. The introduction of steam, for example, into the navy, had changed the whole face of war, and it wu necessary that this country should not be left in an unprotected state. In April, 1848, there were 45,947 men actually on the books, and they propoeed now that 40,000 only should be voted. It was proposed practically, then, that there should be a reduction of 8,000 men in the course of the year ; and the bon. gentleman now proposed • still further reduction of 5,000 men, making in all nearly 11,000. He did not think, towever, that the hon. gen tleman had made out grounds for any suck reduction. The world was not quiet in 1835 or 1848. His hon. friend forgot that they were compelled by treaty to keep up a squa dron on the coast of Africa. That squadron could not be got rid of by reducing the number of seamen. That had been a sub ject of inquiry before the committee, and he trusted that the house would not, from motives of economy, so far give way as to reduce the number of men will a view of petting rid of the squadron. There was another point which his hon. friend had likewise omitted to men tion. We were bound to keep up five ships in China. These squadrons ereated a necasity for 2,600 or 3,000 additional men. In Batten of this kind, • reliance must be placed to a ay , tan extent, tea those who were at the head of the govern , meta. It would be easy for him to show, by a comparison i with the force of other countries, that it would not be advi sable to have low hands than there were ; but he was glad to be relieved from any such task, which was always one of an invidious kind. He thought it better to plus this matter, cm that which was the real constitutional ground, viz., that of its being a question of ooufldence, the government of the day being the beet judges of the star of affairs. The hon. gentleman admitted that commerce required protection; and if he (Sir F. Baring) did not admit it, he should be reminded of it my often. Siena he had been at the Admiralty he had not been without ap plications from different parties, &Wag, under the present state of affair , not uanaturelly, for the protection et •Bri fish ship of war, and he believed the first sot that !ng:- formed in the haw, since he had held his present o wee to answer a question of a gallant agar whether he would not allow a ship to be constantly stationed at Cali fornia. There would be abundant opportunities of going into the other details, and all he asked at present was that the house would carefully consider before they followed the motion of the hon. member. He had not himself been brought up in the school of extravagance, and he treated that after the large reduction+ which the government had already proposed to make, the hones would pause before the, forced goverment to reduce the amount of seen be low that which wee ',reposed by the vote. and 1 ,14 brlieved wax necessary to the real service of the conetry. — / Mr. WODEHOUSE took a review of various prop o g t k ei for reduction, submitted by Mr. Hume at twiner " said intimated his intend( n of opposing th e hon. el* now ar.d hereafter, u hs had done on all former mew", Mr. MITCHELL dissented entirely from the aineah thinking that the effective force of the navy, army, of ( R . nance must be kept up. The hon. member p rove d. ' enlogike Lord Pahnerstone's foreign policy, praising bin i s , backer of the emu of freedom, and that against tee opl i i e . of nearly the whole of the metropolitan press. The way' s prevent war was by having as effective navy. Mr. URQUHART thought the number of men liked fir requisite, hut only on *cement of the Foreign Seer s t m ,. policy ; but before he gave he vote he should require a au. — rantee that the forces should not be employed se theyliii been in the Mediterrarean. Lord J. RUSSELL said that when lest year the b ee member had asked him whether her Majesty's forte be employed only consistently with the law of nations h had certainly answered without hesitation in the sill e , t but new when the qu stion was relented, his answer 'depend on the construction put on that law. wi l l" entering at length into a question for the diuossion dein* there would be future opportunities it appeared to him tha t Sir W. Parker hod been fully justified in the aoudad IR , cued by him at Messina. The admiral had received ats4 moss instructions, but having interfered between th e of the Two Skillet and the Bidden, on grounds of hassle, be kad subsequently received the approval of goveram e i for his conduct. The hem. member conceived that ia, stead of approval, Sir W. Parker should have mei* letters of recall, as having violated the leer of we lt So long, then, as the government and the hen. member.% so much at issue as to the construction of the law due* it would oe quite impossible for him (Lord J. Rama) le give any pledge on the subject, lie had hoped that tkakm. member would have imitated the laudable example of the hon. member for Bridport, and reposed oosildenes ie th government ; but, eh he to quired a guarantee which ma not be given, he must leave him to take his own coarse. Mr. URQUHART expressed his dinatiofaction at thee. planation of the noble lord, and would bring forelegs specific motion on the subject. TH Sir ooothe W elhto .. : bi frne. O annle L imukn E nedtsmta: S .ir W b:etrey O nweA ß aniturrefrlawd: eo nhuontichns m :zoooka p o l tsd i loe m h:a e .co n nhi: t c.7mendh ed t,,hoode th haacietti e rvkagovinamot h me nn o:Riag.r . l tl eseisz Lary for the Admiralty on the ability displayed in his the presence of abuses in his department Irma and o d o" st: r e down economy 2 which therefore might be attributed to the eine Last year the navy estimates exhibited a redact* el deserved credit for their exertions to reduce expedites,. but there was still ample room for further red uction, .l therefore he hoped that they would not relax in their an titans. With a v;ew of ascertaining what redusiommitht be made, he wished to cell attention to the ceases Sue had led to the gnat increase in naval expenditure, Hey increase might be attributed, first, to the increase of tis force of the navy ; secondly, to the intzeduetion of use power; and, thirdly, to improvident expenditure is oz. nexion with naval works. The naval expenditure mast le classed udder separate heads—numerical lore, stalk* meets, and dead-weight. In the expenditure for emend force, he nom , ly included wages and victual. , *Oh* deafly bore a direct moooreion to the amount of that fens. For instance, since 1835 the amount of force had inamed from 26,500 men to about 40,000; and the wages and vier* from 1,300,0001. to 1,900,0001. It was obvious, thee, tit if they witted to reduce expenditure in these branches, they must been with reducing the amount of numerical fees The next head was naval establishment', under whiek head were included six votes, ler istablohmeet home and abroad, for wages of workmen at hone eel abroad, stores, new works, and repairs. Under pops* nagemeet the se items would have borne a proponents tit amount of numerical force, but be found that they hid in creased in a much greater ratio. Since 1835 the amenity' for those items had increased 150 per cent., while**, half had only increased 60 per cent. In fact, the emead. tore had increased in exact proportion to the number dnr employed iu the dockyards. In 1834 the number of man employed was 5 800 ; last year they amounted to 13,800„ (Hear, hear.) In 1834 the expenditure for those stab*. meats was 1,000,0001. ; last year it was 2,500,0001. (Hesse, hear.) The First Lord of the Admiralty attributed ti great increase to the introduction of steam power; bet, in addition, the lion. secretary had Looney sL mitted that there bad been most improvident amnion in connexion with his department. Year after yeutg had been built, accumulating only to perish of the drys'. During the last two years 25 line-of-battle ships and 13 he gates bad been laid on the stocks, involving an emerald 2,500,0001 On the Ist January, 1848, there were tees mission 17 ships of the line and 32 frigate'. In *any there were 64 ships of the line and 63 frigates. What* the use of such an enormous fleet, greater than acmes ' ployed at the Nile, Copenhagen ' and Trafalgar all erten? But notwithstanding all this he found that lug yea than had been placed on the stocks 20 line-of-battle shim sale frigates. (Hear, hear.) The estimate for these en , 2,000,0001., and they would require 20,000 men Ti steam navy was returned last year at 4 lint-otbask ships, 28 frigates, 48 sloops, and 28 gun sank, and would squire 14,000 or 15,000 men. The en penes' in this department had been enormously on handed by what the Secretary for the Admiralty tad joie, designated improvident expenditure. The late govern**, with little knowledge and no experience, ordered no ten than twenty-one iron steamers, but, when nearly finished, was found, by experiment at Woolwich, that they wee wholly unfit for warlike purposes. (Hear, hear.) iket were abandoned • others were converted into troop-Ihien but, in these bat cases, the engines were found to be tee large, end it was not known what to do with then, al, though they had cost 70,0001. It was suggested to put tbea in ninety-gun ships. but that project was rejected by than. va! committee. It did not appear that greater nieces ha been attained in the wooden steamers. (The bon. ban* here read a list of the wooden steamers which had all bee pronounced " crack," or "slow," or otkervie imperfect, before the naval committee ; but th noise of eonversation pervading the house prevented on catching the names.) Such was the report of some of tet largest steamers: he trusted that there would be better s count of the 28 built last year. (Hear, hear.) Under ti pretext of economy large sums had been expended on* construction of steam factories, it being alleged that in.* establishments easels could be built 15 or 20 we* cheaper than by contract. He disbelieved that 'totems! altogether. (Hear, hear.) In private yards the object es to obtain the maximum of work, while in government do* yards it was the maximum of iollenees, to which might be added the recent insane attempts to convert skilful artists into very indifferent soldiers. (Hear.) The building sad repairs of these factories might be set down at' wow., the interest on which would pa the whole expense of re pain if done in private yards. He had endeavoured to step the further progress of those works, being of opinios that it was better to put up with the pre• sent loss then to continue a foolish eared**. It appeared to him that if they really wished to reduce the expenditure, they must not only reduce the numerical fore' of the navy,—the number of ships in commission adds number of workmen in the dockyuds,—but they must tete care that no new works were commenced without tall means to obtain beforehand a good and accurate estimate the coat. The last head of expenditure to which be *di refer was the dead weight. he amount of the dead weight depended on the number of officers employed in the mak and who were afterwards eligible for retiring allowenceli twr Pay, &c. That number it would be imagined would, after a long continuance of peace, be considerably reduced., It had been so in the army, but not in the navy. gaol 1823 there had been a reduction in the deed weight of the army of one fourth, while in the Davy the decrease had been lees than one-ninth. He imagined that the number of cadets and admissions intothe navy should bear some proportion to the force kept upend* number of men employed. So fee from this being the NA be found that the number of cadets had been ens tans greater in 1846 than it was in 1837, though the number of ships and men had increased only one-third in the erase time. This lavish admission of cadets could not, he tholgidi be too strongly condemned, as, besides the increased ups*, it occasioned, it produced disappointment, dissatisfaction,'" discontent amongst the offices themselves, as the natrosi CODII queen of every rank being overstocked—aad it mace' eioned further that pressure on the Admiralty for war motion and war employment, which they found so inetatet nient, but yet so difficult to resist, and which lid induced then to put into commission morn ARM than the number of seamen voted by parliament could 21111. Hence the continuous increase in the number of NO" and consequent increase in the naval expenditure. am the vast fleets scattered over every part of the globe, I* existence of which afforded to the noble Secretary for / 4 ' resin Affairs almost irresistible temptation to interfere ia the affairs of fore ion states—to regulate the succadon t lho throne in Portugal and Spain—to enter into a war for the suppression of the slave trade in Africa—to contest the divine right of kings in Sicily, and to do he knew not eat , in the River Plate. By limiting the number of ad missions they could limit the future amount of the dead weight, but only by that means, therefore a was the duty of parliament to mast that the number of an voted should not be exceeded. (Hear hear.) 01 late Pen a bad habit bad grown up of employ ing more seamen this the number fixed by the house, and of hiring more neatm then the number for which parliament voted wages, when Ik ' estimates were under confederation. The consequence** , seas that they had, year after year, votes for naval excess, continuous and growing increase in the naval expenditure. The fact was, that the Admiralty fixed the navy, not Est ing to the will of parliament , bat according to its ono I,* and pleasure. The hones should insist that on no seems: should the number men and the force . voted be exceede d' unites good and valid reasons were given i m mediately oh the meeting of parliament. (Hear, hear.) He now cane to the vote before the house, via., the number of yak!! the ensuing year. Last year the number voted was 43,00 0 s end the number employed was, *cording to the hot gentleman (Mr. Ward), 3,000 or 4,000 mere ; this year was to be 40,000, being a reduction comically of 3awe but really of 7,000 men. (Hoar.) This was certain'? s good beginning. But there was ample grounds for as tion even to a larger mount. (Hear.) He wi th bis honourable friend (Mr. Hams) on this ODMW., and would make the reduction on the ships oa foreign stations. There were in all en (war die lions besides the Mediterranean (which was not now col sidered as foreign), in all of which our naval force bad ea much increased since 1841. The force on the East I , and China stations, including: New Zealand and 8 ° 6 1! Australia, before 1840 averaged 10 ships and 2,000 ter! When the war with China arose that force was, of mare! wolgssretuatlyideyarsedincreinost increased ; it nitedtforoshadtogisrnlithisbeia. reiganduced4d,s4:73cproeimtainien.i. endeavoured in every way to 114900 the estimates, sad rem S. had beta sppciated to osasider the elpmdbillPa. The goverameat, Oar inking their dams els] elatieesid. lave_ obliged to web the result whatbelekles and se @sea es they mortared to melest e mald mks iminslionk they made to estimeiss . Wks! the him weelleseas seld that ha hews periods ilamotal statement was made earlier in the year Ora was the mestim at present. he should to eolleet that die Smash' parleys& are at as earlier period. Be hr, the dreg* made by lard Ahamem the gnash' you began MI the dth of Jeremy, sew k began on the doh of April. TM bon. gent/seem woo demise, wallet; ea she amen minister of the mesas period to do more than the imam =deter of isomer times, bt eases M wen mew felled ea to state the dam dal peewee& el the year bakers it bad begun. If the leamatlentsa reisived to the expmieme et the last twelve or glees years, he wield net dad a stogie instants ia which the beam wee stated before the estimates. No par ade end be mere snivels to Wed say preetied reduction WS the gemereseemt. They were new esdeavourieg to revisals, slam establiskoeuts, the estimates for which were ant ea the table of the home, with a view to sedastims la them. He was not anxious to lay flan sibre the lame till they had ascertained what reame d'sm were pandemble meristently with the efficient working of time establishematt. He Moult it would be more sada holm that he shield state to the louse the probable income and oxpeaditure when he felt Mindambled to do IP, thin deat sheal4 take that coarse w e n he could mot state them with equal seeursey. They bad het n dated le genera terms already. If that was all that his bon. Stead reweised, owl that was an that he professed to require, then he did aid me the nu. M his motion ; and is that sense he ailed ma the beam to reject It, in order that they might fr o late eemnilles if supply. They could then, and not tell Ztreptea nt ilistam whether the estimates they proposed be dor net. (Hear, hear.) Cal. SIBTHOSP said that, although be was disposed to place bet little eadidence in the motion of the hoe. member for Mattress, seeiewthat he always rippers& the govern ment, he amid. ails he his proposition on the present Yr. 60BDEN said that the wawa given by the right hon. gentlemen to the popped of kis hon. Mend was not a Zlerisaa.MistileY..c t he ee h its. impossible. gentleman that The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that what he seated was that he could act give an accurate account before the sth of April. Kr. COBDEN—Bat when was the necessity of voting the supplies before the 6th of April ? (Hear.) Eves if it were Impossible to Fawns them till after that period, they might at hod have an approximate amended es to the ex penditure sad menet of imams before the 6th of April. (Hoar.) He wanted to have the whole estimate of expendi ture sad Weems before then, bat they did not get that. They get the army, navy, and admire esti mates, but they had not got the anseellsamus estimates yet. (Hear.) The right hoe. wisdoms* made use of one argument which seemed to him to be very ex. traordinary—namely, that they probably might be ie a mate of war ; that the enemy's fleet might benei the mast— (" No, ao " from the Chancellor of the Ezair.) Cier kW, the ho.. gentleman made use M that argument (" Ifo„ no.") Sorely he did not minepressat the right hon. gentleman. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—You do indeed. Mr. COBDEN could not Nohow he mitrspreeented his right hoa.frtend, for he surely pat the possible caw of an enem/ L ra u veging the coast. That was the first argument used him. It assumed that after 33 years of peace they were a ttogo to war. This constant tendency of con sidering war as the unreal state of society was what he ob jected to. (Hear. hear.) At all meta, while they were at peace, kit them have the advantage of peace. (Hear, hear. ) Let them lave at the beginning of the session the estimate d what Me insets* and expenditure were likely to be. Al =he wisdleed that the affairs of the nation were dif hem those of an individual, inasmuch as it might not be always in their power to confine the expenditure of a Ration within its estimated income, yet, even in the affairs of a nation, the expenditure must in some measure be regulated by the income, because there was a limit to the income of a nation. When the ea ion at large was selling oat he a redaction of expenditure, they ought to have the ease dad (stably before them; and if they had the whets estimates before them, they would be the better able to judge, by reference to the sources of income, whether they seeld and vote the expenditure, than they scull whoa t h ey were in total ',novena where the WOOS MY to come fem. (Hem) The right hon. gentle men Mew from fortnight to fortnight what the progress of the income was—he knew what the progress of the excise mad sate= wee. It appeared to him that it was for the haw sad esuntry also to know as far as possible the state of the stational resources. Surely there was nothing un reemaahle is that. He did sot propose to emberram ent, or to throw any impediment or ine:avenienee Ertt a irway, by refusing to vote money on account. He hoped, therefore, his honourable friend would pews his motion, and, if unsuccessful now, he trusted he would move at smother time a substantive motion, that on all future °c ommons Delon me oats of supply an approximate estimate should be given of the income sad expenditure of the °matey. (Hear. hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that his hoe. friend had misreproseutad what ha said—no doubt unintentionally. He pat the ease of war merely as an without the slightest Tarmac* to the prssent or say other taw, to show bow inspowdblos It would be audit certaia eiressulauese to carry oat the course proposed for adoption by the hon. member for Montrose. • • • Mr- iiI7MII said that if the right hon. gentleman bad read his resolution he would see that he did not ask for an accurate ammot. Them was the instance of Lord Althorp in 1834, sad, subsequently, of Mr. Ooulbum, for the course he proposed. The home then divided—For the resolution 4B Against it The house then went into committee of supply. NAVY ESTIMATES. . . Kr. WARD aid that he isesenciWafficiently obvious he deferred making say thermalleas is answer to the arecir of the lee. Wean opposite Mk 11. Willoughby) till e com mend mak* his gmerel datemed to the committee. In kis main einmatiems he (Kr. Ward) entirely concurred. There was mash MA is the observation that if an use., in the aaval ezpondihree me to neer perpetually from year to year,the Modes maiimot fairly be reguded as Oast criterion of the Missal eirpaditure, and that the Home of Commons was set ailed to sail for an rxplanation of that excess, Ist me and Se anew it to pass without animadvertion, if it ommY met he ealithderily explained. The present was the thith Me that be mend shoe he became Secretary to the Atheheity, and he might say the first for which the present hard were entirely reeponaible. There was first the exam of 1111,1180 t for the year 18456. This must be considered rep thee is the light of a eappiemestary veer than ea excess. It was an Maim to the am estimator esuctioned under maid almeaseranese by the Treasury, sad of which the present Board of Admiralty knew nothing. The money wee exptuod Ware the present government sum into Mee, ant *elm. patisma apes*, Ina tire en Chancellor of the Ithrheepen emit, he led we doubt, th assign midd en messes for thee mesa This, Is, the excess of the year 1846-7, the peeinat Beard of Admiralty sew eedy partially reemedble, broom the money wee gad upon the enfilade of their pedeseesors in office. Um ems the men of 1847-8, ammatine to 323,3871.—a hey mem undoubtedly, r and the lest h sed e Miek the remit t Moil wen exclusively eopmedie. the weight of tha he did not at all dedne to undersells. He M ite Jiree of the alplibill==:lo bum gentle spinet Ihis He dotes of this GM be ...trawl ex id spree he swileslyled. (Her, Marl ee premed he the past el me for menthe, though sot to the moat which resulted at um aid of the year. He stated in the house end more at large %dere the emintittea that the mosso of this num were three : the first was the halm in the wages et semarn, whisk made a daemon to the wed Id 70,3341. the semi wee that they had an avenge of 3,9% men mem ea the heals Shea bad bent voted. (Hear, beer.) The mot ea lie mead was 246,0001. in 1847.8, ee gemmed with MUSK Ise Ors year 18467. The third mute wee es en emit of vines* dothimg, and mensal Mee. The emu at of that Mimes was 81110061. In Maths to die three was the met of the asthma hattellem The mthede we this heed was In the last husbmse esejestual, lemewe they meld sot Mow bow many ame - Mould enter intothres batta lions se it was to be a _purely Mammy mimes on the pen of the rm. The list had beta Wed up mods mere rapidly them ose : cu sp g r as tamd. The I=a tbes anwi ibe mesidered take lb, Met rade el preemileg. if dey made enesulemants at ease he their aripwieatims. end sidling. The latter whir& was a met eagenstee Item wadi be the lath be five years. TM teed mem es this gmemi a IMAM If they eared in raped to them dodged thillelleas lea. 14 only express his mirth bed I the sisp to by than ma ealy in cad r eV wi th the Wine of the matey at the time. With to the but came many dewiest. of emeartainty entered to it, beams ma who entered the service three or four years age might My be receiving their were in the marred fiusial year; and the Admiralty Mad it extremely difficult to deal with that matter. (Hear.) With regard to the mood caste—the allowing • greater cumber of men In the boobs than had tram voted—that he admitted to be the root of an the evil. (Hear, bear.) The great thing to ha 'ended against a any mores In the sunder of men. (Hear, bear, tom Mr. Home.) He did not man that in the mete in which his hos. Mind perhaps understood it; bat, as an mats, it ma the mat Oleg to be gnarl .glut. leased beard hod gins orders far a my Ilere rabic ties of men three needhs after they came Me uSis, Mee them was an average of 3.436 shove the amber Me& Batt us cam the Irish relief ernhe, the distathameas is New Zealand, the Heir war, the dotweiss of ships to the Rio de le Plata, the distunhansee In Claim and lessee, la esserquesee of whisk the ememeadees et them statism felt thawing aka he Meth the fall emplaned of their semis. The mieber of men above the member veiled hr 1847-8 was es the Ist of March 5,300, the DM wreath 4.778 but math 8,717, and the knowing moth 4.134. The einem scesseled with that single dams' At the Irish amiss were Moen incelealatni. At cue period them were as the men 1 flog-ship, 3 roseiviag-ships, B tiespeidp, sad 31 steena-vessek /ionises end Males, 1 naval trumpet. sad 2 sailing-frigates. There WINO bi di unde r w* 3,100 men, besides • Whiles of marines stalked at Spike Used. lite pries of crab roes hem an averaged nth to 21, per ton, Meuse during the whole of that Mild paled there was no seek thing as • return cargo to be ohniese.nerd heights were emeqtaeutly doubled. All these ezpoeses had gam to swell that excess for which the goeurnmeat iftne jeilly held respoodble. No the the tree- iimimmomiiMllMENlA "I