The Express. — London, England, 1866-03-13 00:00:00

Wme.... THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 13, 186& Gaslight and Coke Companies Bill were ordered to be committed to the select committee on the Lasko (01t7) Corporadoa Gas Bill. ELECTION PETITIONS WITHDRAWN. Mr. DODSON announced that the petitioners who ooze plained of the returns for Barnstaple, the North Riding. Portsmouth, and Dumbartonshire, did not intend to pro ceed, and the orders referring the petitions to the general committee on elections were discharged. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entered the hosts at :Nr period from the back of aka Speaker's chair, end was res etsed with load sheers from the ministerial aide of the house. SPIRITUAL DESITTUTION IN THE METROPOLIS. Mr. AYSTON gave notice that on the first Tuesday after Easter be would move for leave to bring in a bill to appro priaW pert of the revenues of the surplus lands at Fins bury to relieve the spiritual destitution in the metropolis. _ - THE RUBE CHURCH ESTABLISHMENT. Mr. GREGORY gave notion that to-morrow evening be world move, me an amendment to the motion of the hon. member for Kilkenny, that the reform of the Irish church setab.'ishment to neoewr►, and demands the prompt at tentioal of parliament. (Hear.) ought to be extended. With lush an aemmiulanoe d authority proceeding front every quarter k aT famin► ) hold it to be superfluous fora moment to debate that p moral question. I shall arsume that by those declarations so repeatedly and so earnestly made, the general pound an d justification is established under which her Majesty's I present government are warranted in laying before you a proposal relating to this important question. And, air, I venture to request from the house, sot only for myself, that kind patience and indulgence which I have received at i its bands times innumerable, but likewise for the question i I have to introduce, that grave and earnest attention which beloop to a matter of so merlon' an order. (Hem, hear.) Sir, it mey be said with respect to the origin of this questions, that it ie emphatically the work of the House of Commons. Let me remind the home, ss the time is now long gone by, and LS many have taken their seats 011 these benches for t►e first time—let me remind the house of whet happened in the beginning of 1&31, end I mast toy that the event which then occurred was of a nature to saddle the responsibility connected with the introduction of this question, in a high and peculiar sense, not on one or another government, but upon the body of the Howe of Commons. (Rear, hear.) It we, an independent member — the hon. member for Surrey (Mr. Locke King), who, on the 20th February, Ifsl, moved for leave to bring in a bill to grant a 101. occupation franchise in counties. The sole opponent of that measure was my noble friend now at the head of the government. Every other speaker either approved or was silent on the occasion—(laughter)—every other usual speaker, every other authority of this house, either approved or was silent on the occasion. The government were beaten by • ma jority of 21. The minority consisted of 52 members, and among those 52 there were not, I think, more than 12 or 15 who sat upon the benches of the party opposite. So that it cannot, I think, be denied that the first initiation of this @abject in the form in which it now comes before us, having begun as to extending the county franchise only, it was perfectly well known that a change in the county must cause • (Lange in the borough franeLise also. The initiation of the subject was in a peculiar sense ie the House of Commons, and therefore in inviting you to eo-operate with us, the advisers of the crown, in endeavouring to bring it to a solution, lam inviting you not merely to relieve us from a difficulty, but to complete a work which is of com mon interest to yourselves. (Hear, hear.) Sir, the elec tion of a new parliament naturally made the government feel that the time had arrived when it was right that the sense of the representatives of the people should be again taken with regard to the laws which regulate our electoral system. The duty of the government was a very plain one. No doubt they had before them the reoord of former failures. No doubt they bad to deal, as was obvious, with the state of the public mind, notclear, definite, and resolute, but rather bewildered end indecisive. Their duty, however, was plaio. It was to examine the materials of the case. To east aside every consideration narrower than those which belong to a peat public and national interest—not to inquire what might be for the benefit or convenience of this party or that—Cheer, hear}—to be more studious of the substance than the shadow, or the need of their own constituents, to apply their minds and the best powers at their command to the framing of a prudent but en e ff ectual measure ; then to await the issue at the hands of parliament ; but, so far as depended upon them, having framed that measure, to sustain and support it with all the energy end decision in their power. (Hen, hear.) And, sfr, the first question we had to consider was a most important one. It wee whether we were to attempt legislation in the peanut session, or whether we were to be content with mere inquiry. It was beyond all dispute true that a careful examination of the facts of the case lay at the very threshold of the subject. It was want of information, or want of definite and authentic information, which formed the greatest matter of contention durin g debates in the year 1860. It was scarcely possible in that year to get at the point clearly in issue. Such were the doubts, such were the misgivings ; such the scepticism in regard to the figures on one side and on the other, we felt that if we were really to come to an inns upon the merits of the case, we 111011, endeavour to make ourselves, and parliament as well es ourselves, routers of the facts of the case. Well, then, no unnecessary delay was allowed to occur. I believe in the first cabinet after the funeral of our lamented bead, but certainly before approaching any other domestic question of a public character, we ap plied ourselves to consider and to frame the heads under which that information should be obtained. So soon as these heads could be framed the necessary measnrea were taken to obtain the information required, and I am bound to say that the assistance received from the Poor-law De partment, and in particular the labours of Mr. Lambert, the person principally concerned, were, in point of ability and assiduity , everything we could desire. (Hear, hear.) And I think that if members, whether they sit on this side of the house or on that, have been able since Saturday morning to institute any examination of the volume which has been laid upon the table, they will admit that in the collection of that volume time has net bees mis.spent, and they will likewise admit that they have found the advantage of approaching the °owns elevation of this important question with inch a knowledge, and such a man of facts as were never before colleen, i. (Hear.) We therefor* can truly say that no time has be e n lost. Had we found that it was not possible by the me Ms at the command of the executive 4ovarnanat to °Mai, in. formation which should be full in its scope and range , a nd authentic and trustworthy in its character, we shook', hate had no hesitation in at once seeking the aid of parliament, and In postponing legislation until such informed . en h a d been obtained. Bat when we saw what could be d one, and when, as materials began to grow in our hand' we per ceived what bad been done we bad no doubt of s atisfying the House of Commons an d the House of Lorna- — e t matey ing both branches of the legislature—with r egard to the sufficiency of our knowledge ; and, therefore, we Ind not the least hesitation in pledging ourselves so early as the commencement of the session to the introduc tion of • measure upon the subject. (Hear , hear.) New, sir, I have been anxious to explain T ,ow it is that the time has been spent, not merely for the reason, c ompere. tively one of secondary importance, that , there have been hero and there not unnaturally some is dioations of a dispo sition to murmur at the dela?' in tar r production of the Papers, and to ascribe it toyed lation, hesitation, or want of purpose on the part of the governs nat. Sir, ndoubtedly that has not been the case, for so a anioOA have we been to give the House of Commons, so far as we could, the same means of judgment wit'n ourselves, that I as tray state that upon Frie.ey evening I, for one, could not obtain for my own use a complete and finished copy of these Mew ' except the oopy which was laid upon the table of tie ihorse, an d w hi c h o f course =out of my kende- lint the question of time has en anal very different, from that which it derives from l ite connection with taint e rumours or vague imputations. Yt haa this importance., that it is now the 12th a March when I make to yon en first proposal, and that, adverting to the approaching 14, r recess, it would not be possible for us to ask you to read the bill a second time until the esocnd week in Apr Therefore, sir, we have felt, as pru dent and pinetteal men. we had to measure what our powers right be with regard to legislation in the present session, and of course the question for cerwiderat'soe. Are we to have what it termed a tam- Vete inessur e, or are we to have one which is incomplete' Now, sir, ask hors members to consider what is meant by • oonarbate miens of our representative system, and I must omit from the idea or the definition of a complete rseisior., or from the explanation of it, some branches of legislation which are or have been favourites with some maniacs of the hone, but which we as • governmeat do not admit to be necessary or desirable to take into consi dtration. Ido not refer to the question of secret voting, ne the quotient of the shortening of parliaments, but I refer to what may be strictly admitted to belong to a complete revision of our representative sys tem, because we, like everyone else, are sensible of the immense advantage which would attend an operation by which you are enabled to deal with the whole range of the question at one single stroke. (Hear, hear.) But, in the first plan, there most be • consideration of the fiats chise in England and Wales. There must be, and perhaps it is still more urgently required, • consideration of the franchise in Scotland. The subject of the Irish franchise, too, must be considered, although that is in a simple state, because the nature of the present electoral arrangements is much more perfect so far as the enschinory is oonoernei. Then comes, not a single question, but the whole group of questions, which are inducted in whet is called the rediAri ball= of sesta. The question between the three kingdoms— the question between town and country—the question be tween total extinction or capital punishment such as was inflicted in shedule A—or between the milder method of amputation administered in schedule B, or that mildest method of all, which was that adopted by my noble freed, now at the head of the government, in the bill of 1852—1 mean the method of grouping towns together. (Cheers.) All these are matters which most undergo careful conside ration. Theo there comes another question that can never be avoided when you review the electoral system, viz., the onsideratioa of whether in all cases the present bounda ries of boroughs are such as the exigencies of those bo roughs naturally require, To meddle with the boundaries of boroughs for the sake of affecting the question as between town and country representation and the balance of interests would, in my opinion, be a groin abuse. But, on the other hand, what are called the natural boundaries of each borough, as determined by public convenience from time to time, is not only natural and useful, but it is an essential part of any complete review of our electoral system. There is, I am sorry to say, another matter belonging to that re view which Ido not believe to be less urgent now than at any other period, and that is, to (snider the state of the law with respect to corrupt practices. (Cheers.) Ido not intend to make any promise upon this subject, for it is as difficult ea it is important, but I am afraid the urgency for it is in no degree diminished, and undoubtedly it usenet be paesd over by any government attempt ing to make aeompletelreview of our representative system. Then clearly there is the important question of the pro visions, no doubt of a less arduous nature, but still fairly a question, for the administration of the machinery senneated with the working of the proceedings at elections. Well, sir, these subjects, great in them 02...lvelLtaid complex in themselves, have been further by the speculations of many men of gre=rlity and of great authority, who have thought that the time has come wino, taken on the one side the demand for the extension of the franchise, and on the other Aid* thidtflionlr Ne*h we have Ai #ncourferjiinEti rawest to an tides distr ibu tion of power among iftalK ferent dames of the community—the& the time has come when, introducing propositions in one form or another, one or ether or femora of them may be supported by arguments most mgenious and by authorities most weighty—propositions of which it may be emphatically said that they are in the aid Eoglish sense innovation., and which, as being innovations, never could come under the review and eritidism of Oils house without careful, smith ! ing, sad jealous examination. (Cheers.) Waste possible for us to suppoee, as we now stand, we could expect that parliament would give itself to the complete review that I have described daring the continuance of the present me i Mon ?It is very good—it is very ranch conformable to the habits of this country and to our constitutional praetleas— to entertain a high idea of what is called the oninit?teer of parliament, but time and *pile cannot be annihilated lima to make lovers happy, of far any other purpose whatever. (Laughter.) And I want to know what is the time at our command, and the position in which we stand, and what is the time requisite for dealing with these anbjeets. Neither of these questions is very difficult to answer. As regards the time at our command, I think, so far as we can reckon, if we obtain leave for the introduction of this bill, we shall propose the second reading on the 12th of April, and suppose I measure the time between the 12th of April and the middle of July—which I think would be the latest at which such • bill could be emit up to the House of Lords—l find that government nights will amount to 24, and one-half at least of those must neeemarily be occu pied with the financial bruises of the nation and of supply, and beyond that we shall have nothing to depend upon but the charity of private members, and the crumbs which may fall into our laps. (" Oh. oh.") Sir, what have we found in former years? In 1880 we spent months is trying to do nothing. (Laughter.) But there is one exam ple—the great example of the Reform Act—which will give us some idea of the time oocupled by a complete review of our electoral system. One single bill out of which the reform acts finally grew camped fifty nights of the House of Commons. (Sensation.) I believe I should understate the case if I said that 100 nights, at Wet. were requisite for a complete review of the electoral system which was achieved in the years 1831 and 1832. It may be said, and said very truly, that at that time there was a political heat and excitement and apprehension which do not now exist ; and I do not suppose that any such review en that I have indicated would, in the present day, require so long a time ; but lot me point out that the time occupied in passing that act and the acoomnenying acts was not less than six or eight times in extent that which is now, even at a sanguine estimate, at our command. Yon did then completely review the electoral system, but then in order to do so you turned day into night, and summer into winter, and you called upon every man to sacrifice all his domestic obligations, and you made every one give way to your resistless and determined will, and you sacrificed, unjustly sacrificed, but you were oompollad to do it, all other legislation which required debate and serious discussion for two years. Them are not the circumstances In which we now stand. We may now reckon, I have no doubt, upon very fair and in da4ent treatment with respect to the progress of a measure of kind. Do not let it be supposed for a moment that lam apprehensive of what is celled obstruction. The other day my eye fell upon • mange uttered a few years am by the right hon. gentleman opposite ( Mr. Disraeli). In 1860 he said " we should treat this subject without delay, but with that deep and deliberate investigation of • great subject which was in accordance with the freedom of discussion for which the parliament of England was obaraeterised." And the right hoa gentleman was justified in that observation, and we should be guilty of a breach of duty if we should now follow any other course. We have determined, therefore, that it was impossible to do more than approach these questions in the order of their importance ; and no doubt the question which stands first is that of the enfranchisement of large mimes of our fellow-countrymen who are now excluded from the elec toral suffrage. When I say rosasse, I should say large amn hers of our countrymen, as it was not my intention tome the word masses is its most comprehensive sense. We decided that this was the first and most urgent claim, and that it would be ridiculous, under the idea of laying a complete measure on the table, to introduce • bill which we knew could not pass. We felt that intro ducing such a bill would not be a step towards our end, but would add one mom to the discreditable and disastrous failures another failure more discreditable and disastrous than any that preceded it. (Hear.) We therefore deter mined to confine the bill which we proposed to introduce to the consideration of the electoral franchise--(hear t hear) — and we framed that in contemplation of the time in which we stand and of opportunity which we can command. It would be impossible to go farther. It may be thought, however, that we should state our views on other branches of the subject, and the question of the hon. bart. opposite enables me to do so. The hon. bark has told us that in so far as the Scotch franchise is concerned the question of hes tibiae must not be stirred in Ragland without extending our legislation to Scotland also. Well, we think that a complete review of the representation must include all the subjects I have named. We admit that the present plan is incomplete. We may be asked will we complete it I (Hear, hear.) I have ever been averse from dealing is pledges for future sessions. Such are the number and variety of circumstances which must affect the duty of government in an empire like this at future periods, that in my opinion we must leave the future to find it. own proper opportunity for dealing with these important questions. But I may say that while the group of complex questions included in permanent reform is beyond oar handling in one session or especially what remains to us of the present seerion, yet I think there cannot be the slightest doubt if the rivernment finds it its duty to take those questions in hand as a direst sequel to the question we now propose, we are fu ll y confident that the payment parliament is quite competent to discuss and decide them. (Laughter.) Having, sir, arrived, as we at once arrived, at the conclusion that we ought to deal with the question of parliamentary representation, it wsampudly obvious to us that if we did not revive the bill for which we were impossible as a government in 1860—that govern ment being composed in great part of the same ponces—at least that that bill should be made our starting point. I will take the first question, that of the county representa tion, a question which is happily less beset with—l won't my with intend° difficulties—but with much lees jealousy and misapprehension than the question of the representation of boroughs. In 1860 it was proposed to adopt the bill of my hon. friend the member for Surrq, which reduced the franchise in counties from 501. to 104 That proposal was not, if I remember right. attended with any other proposal touching the county representation. What we now propose is a modification of that plan of my hon. friend. We propose to modify that proposal by re ducing the occupation franchise in counties from 501. to 141. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") I said just now that the reduced franchise from 501. downwards will not pre cisely correspond with the 501. franchise as it now exists. We leave that precisely as it stands. The camps. tion franchise we propose between 501. and 14/. value will be an occupation franchise not of land alone. but of houses or of houses with land. (Hear, beer.) And, sir, there is no difficulty in estimating from the papers on the table the amount of enfranchisement that this change in the law will produce. It would correspond as nearly as possible with a 121, rating franchise. (Hear, hear.) And if honourable members will look at the &tures furnished by the volume of statistics with respect to the house rating franchise, they will find that its effect alter making proper deduction for those who do not claim, and those who have sot occupied a sufficient time—they will find the effect will be to add to the county votes 171,000 persons. (Hear, bear.) It may be asked, why not godowu to 101. ?—(bear, hear)—and there would not be any danger, as far as I ma observe, in doing so, but on the whole what we think is this, that by the change we recommend we shall obtain not only • very large, but likewise a very independent, addition to our county system. At least we think that if we go from 141. to 101. we shall render it not more but less indepeodent. We do not anticipate eery jealousies or misapprehension with respect to this enfranchisement, beams I think it will be held on all hands—l entertain the opinion very strongly — that it must be looked upon as • midsm enfranchise ment, more strictly than that the present elms franchise is a middle-class franehhe. The number of persons of the working elms paying a 141. rental is very small, not, is feet, worth taking into consideratioo. But we ham looked fur ther into this matter to see whether in any case under the present law there wersioteresteof amorestrictly proprietary character, interests connected with tenure, which might produce • franchise in counties which is not at present pro vided for, and we find this state of the law, this state of the county franchise derived from property within the limits of boroughs—l include cities— we find that men perused of • 40s. freehold, whether in a borough or county, may draw from that freehold a county vote ; but if he have copy hold, which is rare, or leasehold, which is a common case, and which Teas truly a propristory interest as a 40s. freehold, and may be fifty times the amount, he is not to vote. We propose that the possessor of leasehold or copyhold property within the limits of boroughs, and subject exactly to the same definition which now gives the right beyond those limits, shall have the same rights as the freeholders within the limits of boroughs. and be enabled under the same conditions to come on the county lists. (Hear, hear.) The question of the numerical effect of this enlargement of the franchise I am not able to solve, in con sequence of the abeame of materials ; it cannot be lame, but it must be good as far as it goes, bemuse the kind of repre sentation created will be thoroughly germain to the purposes of a county oonstituenoy. I come now to other topics affecting the coestituanoies, although there is °sly one which I need mention, and I introduce it at this point be cause in the counties it will have • great portion of its ope ration. I allude to them franchisee new to the constitution, and other than franchises of tenure and occupation, which have sometime. been condemned with scoffing or irreve rent name', hut which may be called special or bye tren ches.. Some of these franchises were proposed by Lord Aberdeen's government in the bill of 1854, and I think also that the list was farther extended in the bill of 1859. As far se the bill of 1854 was concerned, many of us are responsible for that bill, but we have considered very carefully the nature of those fran chises and the numerous consideratioes that bear on their introduction, and the first proposition 1 think that may be clearlyarrived at is this, that they would notform • stable and adequate basis for the extension of the electoral franchise. They will not in general introduce any large num ber of persons whom we could not get at by the old consti tutional varieties of tenure, and they would have a great tendency to complicate our system of representation by introducing a multitude of titles accompanied by difficulty of investigation and very much increasing the expers. And '.peaking generally, the e ff ect of our review I do tote to my, bee been unfavourable to the paenL intsoduotion of these by. fnuichims es special frraann BM there is one aaoeg Mem with respect to which, not attaching to it any esce.dlug importance, yet sot withstandiag we think that are sufficient grounds for representing it to the favourable notice of pagliermat— I mean that which is called savings beak feanoldie. (Hem, hear.) The savings-bank franchise has these ad vantages : first of all, as far es it goes, it meets • Melia' prevalent in the country, sad • feehum to which we are disposed to give way so far as we can do 1$ without the imam of more lorretant sods and aims, a fading that it is desirable to include within the oostituent body, by the method of what I may call spontaacions selection, men who could not be included by any other method of franchise that you could adopt founded upon the old principles of occupation or tenure. (Hear, hear.) Now maid, it is true, it most be true, it is beyond all removable doubt or question, though the nature of savings banks dose not allow us to offer you the demonstration of it, that provident habits enable many persona, many in early ychth, many in very humble circumstances, many not having any inde pendent holding, to amens these little stores by the time they come to legal age, and thereby, as we think, to qualify theruselyse—and justly qualify themselves— for taking part in the choice of those who are to govern the montry. (Hear, hear.) And above all the savings -bank franchise has this notable advantige, that it is attended with no complication of title whatever. Every savior hank depositor possesses, end it la necessary for him to =ia book in which is inserted every payment in he ds, every payment out be has remind, the date of each and all of those payments, so that an impaction which never could take up a minute of time would tell you, when you have fixed your standaed,whether • man is qualified to vote as a savings-beak depositor or not. We therefore propose that all adult male depositors of 50/. and upwards who have been possessed of that deposit for two yeses in a savings bank or in • Post-office savings bank shall be en titled to be registered forth, place in which they reside. The place where they reside will, I think, commonly be outside the limits of a town ; of course I do not mean became there will be no such savings-bank depositors in the to but because in the towns the nature of the franchise would be such as to include the great bulk of them. But • very large proportion, I think, of saviogshank depositors will be found to be below the limits of the 14/. holding which is proposed for counties. It is therefore on that account that I mention the savings -hank franchise in this MUM tion. With regard to the two years, he me say this. It has been thought requisite—we do not follow the precise example of 1859, but it is obviously necessary to interpose a period, in order to prevent this franchise becoming a mecum of corruption. (Cheers.) Now, as respects the numbers whom this provision would e nfranchise. (Hear, hear.) If we look at the return regarding savings Make which was presented a few days ago, we see very meg nifiosot totals ; first of all, of depositors of all classes ; and secondly, even of adult male depositors , and adult male depositors of 501. and upwards. I think those of 501. sad upwards for one year in England and Wales amount to no lees than 94,000, and those for two years to 87,000. But wben we come to consider two most powerful causes, we shall find that we must not reckon upon large satrap chisemerds from this ; and it would be a mere d.elndon, in my opinion, to look upon it as • means of a large edam chisement. The first of them causes is, that so large • proportion of these persons will be entraechised by other titles and claims; but the .second Is, the immense deduction that you must make from the apparent effect of every provision for the extension of a franchise when that franchise is accompanied, as it is of necessity in this case, with the conditios that the poems sion of the franchise must be attended with the trouble of an animal claim. Now, the trouble of an annual claim in this case is inevitable, for the money might be withdrawn, and the qualification lost. The claim must be made. We can not relieve the man of his trouble by means of • midi* officer. The claim must be made, it must be renewed from year to year, and therefore, though we think this • franchise, we offer it simply as a collateral and subs franchise. If it adds 10,000 or 15,000 to the constituency, believe that is the outside of what it will do ; but at any rite it is a very good franchise as far es it goes, and, moreover, we hope, under the operation of the Poet-office awhile banks, ft will be a franchise having a tendency gradually to extend Wolf. (Hear, hear.) That, I think, completes what I have to say upon the subject of the county franchise. The enfranchisement is counties will, according to the plan of the government, in the view we take, be a midileelass enframbisement. The effect of it will he pot to I Werr o . B the share of the working classes in the remieentation, but, on the contrary, to diminish that share proportionately, because the ighlflDOD of the working elms espresenled ti the very small freeholders will form hereafter • saw per mintage of the entire county constituency then at the present moment. Hr. BRIGHT'—What will be the proportion! How much for the horse, and how much for the land ! The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It most be • house, and if the house is inhabited by the more there is no stipulation as to its value. If it is not Mb& bited by him, it must be 71. at least, or one half of the county qualificatioe. I come now to the more vexed ques tion of the inhabitante of town' • and I thick it will contd. bate to that clearness whic h I am desirous above all to study, if I first cell the alteration of the home to the fact that the inhabitants of towns, for the purposes of outran ohisement, are as such to be dealt with in four distinct dames. One of them is the clue—and this is the principal one—of those men who inhabit a separate house or other suarately rated building, and who pay their own rates. These are the proper objeete of the Reform Act of 1832 with respect to the borough friendlies, and these I should call rate-paying householders. The neat are the clam of persons who inhabit their own houses, whom houses are separately rated, but who do not pry their own rates, they being paid either under Mr. Starges Bonnie's Act, or under the Small Tenements Rating Act, or under particular local acts that prevail in certain towns and dis the rates being mid by the landlord. These persona, and them alone, I shall designate by the phrase by which they are best lnown—l do not know whether it is a very accurate phrase either in law or fact—l mean that of com pound householders. The third class is the elms of my sons with regard to whom it appears that they have now in law a claim to enfranchisement like the former dames, but that that claim is totally null and valueless. These are pawns not only who do not pay their own rates, but whom holdings are not separately rated ; that is to say, they are the inhabitents of a portion of a house—it may be, and, indeed, it is always, as far ea I have to deal with this class, that it is a separate portion of the house, but it is not separately Rated, and they pay their rents without any reference to rates whatever. Now, the two first dames I have mentioned we think to be properly householders. There has been a tendency, I believe, in legal decisions, to introduce, under the title of householders, or at any rate under the effect of the title of borushoLhirs, that is, to cm eider as qualified for the franchise, those men who are not householders ; for I doubt very much whether, ex cept in the very few instances where large buildings, such as those in Victoria-street, are divided into separate holdings of • very superior character, so that there can be no question of the value—l doubt very much whether this class can be said to be upon the list of voters or on the !waters of the country at all. And this' clam of persons, inasmuch as they are not ceps/stele rated, we think it much better to deal with as ledgers. The only mode in which under the present law they could become enfranehisedi e zuld be by tddng a separate rating of their holdings, are chiefly to be found—the enormous majority is to found—in London though there are some in other places. Nothing I think would be more incon venient than to have an electoral law which requires parishes to adopt rating arrangements not good for rating, but only arbitrarily made necessary for the pur pose of the franchise. We think it better, as far as we can, to let things take their natural course. Substantially these persons stand in themtegory of lodgers, and es lodgers we propose to deal with theca. These are three of the classes, and the fourth is the class of lodgers properly eo called ; that is to say, Lemons who Um in and inhabit rooms of their own, but as inmates of the house of another man. If the house will bear well in mind them four classes it will contribute to clearness in the rest of this somewhat tangled discussion. Now we spines& the question upon whith. it would be idle to disguise, so much indecision, so much jealousy, and so much apprehension exists—namely, the question of the town fennelme. (Mar, hear.) And wishing as far as depends upon us to remove all that indecision, to allay all that jealousy, and to banish all that apprtbension, we think that can hest be done by a full exposure of the facts of the case. (Hear, hear.) We therefore ask ourselves, what is the present state of the town constituency, and what has been its progress as com pared with population—l mean since 1832 ? The town Don , stituenoy in 1832, the first year of the operation of the Reform Act, amounted to 282,000 pawns. of whom 63,000 were freemen, 44,000 scot and lot voters, or voters of a similar description, and 174,000 were 10/. householders. Sinai that period the freemen have fallen in numbers to 42,000, the old right voters to 9,000, being as I may say on their way to extinction—(hear, bear)— while the 10/. house holden have risen to 463,000. The gross total of the con stituencies, therefore, is 514.000. That shows an increase since 1832 of 82 per cent. In the gams period the popula tion in towns h.. increased as follows :—ln 1831 it was 5,250,000, in 1865 it was 9,3.36,000, being an humus of 4,119,000 or 79 per cent. (Hear, hear.) So that the growth of the coustitnencies in towns, notwithstanding thereat aug mentation of the wealth of the country, has practically but rest exceeded the bare growth of the population. (Hear.) ow that is an important fact for the house to bear in mind. In counties the case was different. There the growth of the constituencies has been quite an great, and the growth of the population much less. I now come to a point of very great importance, and I think the house will be of opinion that the three or four months which have been spent in the collection cf the returns would not have been ill spent if they had led to no other result than to the particulars contained in the Blue Book of Friday, with respect to the representation of the working dames in the preempt con stituencies. The ficrures as they stand come out thus :—I mentioned I think 512,000 as the town constituencies ; but great pains have been taken in striking out double entries, and I have no doubt upon the whole they have been struck out with considerable precision. The net amount of the town constituendes—the actual num ber of persons entitled DOW to vote—is 489,000. I shall for the convenience of the house *Define myself to thousands. The 10/. voters of the worlds( dames are re turned as 108,000, and the freemen and old right voters of the making chasm as 20,000, making a total of 128,000, and showing an apparent per-sent age of 28 per mat of the present oonstitnemies as SAVINGS BANKS. Colons? W. PATTEN gave notice that he should to morrow mei.; the Chancellor of the Excheqner whether his attention had bees directed to private bills istrodueed during the re isant session giving power to corporate bodies to establish miring' banks on the secarity of the corporate hinds, and if so what was the intention of the government with respect to t. hem. ,CATTLE STATISTICS. Admiral DuNcirMßE inquired of the President of the Board of Trade if he wag aware that the schedules prepared by the Board of Tra, is, calling upon the owners of live s t o ok t o ma k e a m o on * thereof on the sth day of March, bad never been issued L * many townships, and how he pur posed t o Wawa an m om ate return of cattle throughout the coantry on a given day Mr. X. OLBSON said a Ist in consequence of the notioe he had resolved of the qua. than of the gallant admiral ho had made inquiries of those chat bed with the duty of ?shahs the schedules, rind there was every reason to believe that the officers :shar,ired with the t luty of issuing schedules for the return of live stock had complied with their instruc tions, and had seas schedules to all occupiers of land whose names appeared oa the laud asee.ument returns. The only venom to whom they had not been sect were some small occupiers, being sub-tenants or pen Wall described as WM piers of houses sad gardens. In at. olle lONS steps had been taken to assertala the number of the it live stock. Admiral DIINOOMBE said that Were were to his know ledge many townships in which the °occupiers had not had the returns mat to the= THE RINDERPESY AMON(.I SHEEP. Sir A. AGNEW inquired of the Vice'-Presideat of the Committee of Privy Council on Education if he could give any information u to whether the dise au mid to have broken oat among sheep in some parte of Soodeed, had in ady instance beets reported by esaipelost antherity to be identical with rinderpork. kir. BRUM mid that no official information had been received as to the existeoce of rioderpeat among 'heap in &ottani, but he was sorry to say that other credible infor -nation bad reached the government which left Mlle doubt of the existeme of the disease in Porfaishire and the county of Fife. As to England, he was sorry to say that there scold be no doubt. An inspection of sheep seed to have died by yin. demist bad been made by Professors Simoods ant Brown on behalf of the Veterinary Department, and the result of the examination was to establish in their minds bused ell doubt that the riederpeet had existed in ten differial cues among sheep in England, and had been attended with very serious loes. He had been informed by Professor %moods that in every awe where he trued the loss of sheep to its source, they had been in contact with cattle subject to the disease. SITE FOE NOTTINGHAM BARRACK& Sir R. CLIFTON asked the Secretary of State for War the date of the purchase of land at Nottingham for site of barracks, from whom it was purchased, the extent of land, and price paid. The Marquis of HARTINGTON replied that the land was purchased in 1860, by order of the Doke of Newcastle, and that the extent was 21 sores, and coat 5,2001. RIFLE GUNS. Mr. H. BLILLIZ asked the Secretory of State for War whether any of the 12-ton guns rifled 'moo the Wooltrioh pattern, and now being served out to her Majeety's ships, had been submitted to the Wet of continuous firing, such as would occur during a bombardment ; whether the raoge and accuracy of such guns had been fully ascertained by either separate or competitive proof ; and whether it had been represented to the War-office that the steel tubes rifled on the Woolwich system of those guns would not be able to stand, without injury or destruction, such stmt. The Marquis of HARTINUTON said that the 12-ton pat tern gun fired 135 roundsbefore it improved, moontionously se the state of the tide at Shoeburyneee would admit. The same gun afterwards fired 315 rounds, and its accuracy had been folly maiotsined. The select committee reported that it had made the best practice that bad aver been made by any rifle gun. NATIONAL GALLERY AND NSW 001711 TS OF JUSTICE. In answer to Mr. C. Bagmen, Mr. COWPER said that two of the arobitsets invited to send in designs for the erection of courts of jastice— namely, Messrs. T. Wyatt and Hardwick—had declined to do so, and two other architects had the nastier under con. sideration. Specifications of an elaborate character had been prepared by Mr. Barney, the architectural clerk. The time for sending in the des' was the eed of October. With reference to the Nat i onal Gallery, It was intended to receive designs from a limited number of architects, son. gelding the best way in which the land at the rear of the National Gallery might be disposed of ; and also a pine showing how, in the event of it being deter. mined to demolish the existing building altogether, a more eoevenient and ornamental building for the purpose of a National Gallery could be erected. There was no inten tion to abandon the designs of the late Captain Fowkee for the natural history collection, and Ifr. Waterhouse had been engaged to superintend the erection of a building from those designs. With respect to the l►w courts, the arrange ments were not in snob a state se to enable him so make any statement. ELECTORAL STATISTICS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply to Mr. Ferguson, add that directions had been gives for the preparation of similar electoral returns for %O land as had been furnished for England. He could not name the precise day when they would be ready, but ample time would be given for their consideration. DOCKYARDS EXTENSION ACT OF 1865, dro. Lord O. PAGET gave notice that on Thursday next he would move for leave to bring in a bill for the extension of the above sot, and also a bill for the better prevention of contagious diseases in certain naval and military stations. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, the orders of the day were postponed until after the notice of motion with respect to the Reform Bill. TIIE REFORM BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who was received with loud and general cheering, said—l have now to sak that the paragraphs in the Queen's Speech relating to the electoral franchise may be read at the table. The CLERK then read the following paragraphs :—" I have directed that information should be procured in reference to the rights of voting in the election of members to serve in parliament foe counties, cities, and boroughs. When that information is complete, the attention of parliament will be called to the result thus obtained, with a view to such improvements in the JAWS which regulate the rights of voting in the election of members of the House of Commons as may tend to strengthen our free institutions, and non. duce to the public welfare." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER mid—Mr. Deputy-Speaker,—Sir, If in order to estimate the difficul ties of the question which I have now to bring before you it be right, as I suppose, to take into view not only its own extent and complexity, and not only the strange fluctuation of circumstances which have attended and marked its history, but also the weakness of the hands into which the treatment of it has fallen, then, perhaps, I may well say that few ministers have risen in recent years to ad dress the house under greater difficulties than at this moment attend my position and task. Sir, those difficul ties are difficulties which affect in the first instance her Majesty's government, and they are perfectly sensible of the weight of responsibility which attaches to them. But although they be concentrated in their greatest weight upon ua, yet they sre not ours alone. The interest in the solu tion of this question is en interest common to the whole • Hoene of Commons, and to every party and every section of I a party that sits within this house. (Hear, beer.) For, • sir, let me remind you that those paragraphs which we have just heard read are not the only pars graphs in which, under the meet solemn form known to the constitution, the subject of the representation of the people has been brought under the - -. The Carmarthen and Cardigan R.ilway Bill, the Castle ' notice of parliament. By no less than five administrations, Clary and Langoort Railway Bill, the Eat and West Jima- , i no leas than six Queen's speeches, before that of the Con Railway (Hitchin Extensino) Bill, the Glasgow and i South Western Railway (6ilelitional Powers) Bill, the • , present year, the House of Commons has been acquainted Great Western Railway Bill, the Greenock and Shaws by the Sovereign, advised by her constitutional ministers, Water Bill, the Greenock Water Bill, the Lcuth and Lincoln that the time, in their judgment, had come, when the re- Railway Bill, the Merthyr, Trelegtr, and Abergaveany ' presentation of the people ought to undergo revision. Railway , Bill, the Peterborough Water Bill, the Bt. (Hear, hear.) It is needless to refer to the terms of those Stephens Green (Dublin) Bill, the Slough Gas Bill, the South London Market 8011, the Watford and Edgware speeches, but it will be reoolleeted that they have not been Junction Railway Bill, the West Cork. Cork sod Bandon, delivered exclusively at periods when one olds of the house &c. Railway Companies Bill, the West Driytoe and Staiees was in power. (Meer, hear.) In 1860 and In 1859, by both Railway Bill, mil the Wolverhampton and Walsall Rail- p a rties, those solemn pledges were given is the face of the way (aiviati ins) Bill, were read a second time. ' country ; and, sir, having much, I fear, to state to the Mr. LOCKE moved the rejection of the City, Kingston, and Richmond Railway Bill, bat after a brief convenation houw'i I shall not unneceessrily occupy their time it was read a second time. on tbis occasion by dimming the general grounds of the Oc the motion of Mr. CRAWFORD, the Gaslight end Coke question, whether there ought to be a revision of our oleo- Otaipany Bill, sad Gaslight sad Coke, and City of London kcal system, and whether the hanehises of the people LMPERLIL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—Moz4DAY, Meson 12. The Loan Cariontoa took his soot c the woolsack at Soo o'clock. she Animal* and Dublin Consatatri gas Bill. the Lou don Cu Bill, sad the Colombia (13ethaaknO) Markel an va t e lpeoachis Bill, ware respectively read • thirdilos: Wad - - PRINCESS HELENA'S ANNUTIT BILL —PRINCE ALFRED'S ANNUITY BILL. Thine bills paned through sosamlttes. CONSOLIDATED FUND (1.137,7221.) BILL, This bill was read a third thus and ward. CAPTAIN COLES, TURRET-SHIPS, AND THE ADMIRALTY. LORI DUNSANY rose to ask the First Lord of the Admi ralty whether it was the intention of the Admiralty to adopt the cupola or turret principle invented by Captain Cowper Coles, R.N., andif to, whether it was true that the eminence of the inventor, although offered, has been re fused, and his exits pay and allowances stopped ; and to move that an humble address be presented to her Majesty far reports of the committee of naval °Mears appointed to exarniae the dengue of • turret ship designed by Captain Coles. He maid it was the general impression that Captain Ooles had met with rather harsh treatment at the hands of the Admiralty. There was no doubt, who the! we adopted the impels principle or not, that other , stations were adopting it, and that our navy mould have to meet cupola ships in every sea. They were intended to starry 600-pounders, but the artillerists had not as yet been table to manufacture • good 600-pounder gran, and they versa* present armed with 300-pounders. The noble lord then read • report of the cruising of the Sovereign turret slim, which was highly favourable, and he also read poi, tiossmf the correspondence between Captain Coles and the Admiralty on the subject. Captain Coles had also written a letter to a newspaper, which he admitted was an objec tionable course ; but Captain Coles no doubt thought he bad been harshly treated. The Duke of SOMERSET said there would be no objem tan to lay on the table the reports for which the noble lord had moved. He must say, in justice to the °Mows of the dockyards, that, both at Chatham and at Portsmouth, they had cordially assisted Captain Coles. But it was said that the Admiralty objected to cupola ships and put hope &meets in the way. Now when he went to the Admiralty in 1859 Captain Coles had been already applied to by the Admiralty in March of that year. The board submitted Lis designs to the surveyor's department, and they disap proved of his system, sad accordingly the Board of Admi ralty declined to adopt it. They were moth occupied with the !affairs of China at the time, and till the Inter end of 1860 he had not time to attend to this question. But to wards the ead of 1860 he again called the attention of the ooestracters of the navy to the merits of Captain I:kales'a invention, and he received • report that in their opinion it was unfit for sea-going ships, and that it would require great modifications to be suitable even for coast detente. He was then informed that a small cuoMa, to be placed on a battery, was in mitres of construction at Mr. Sean Russell's ship-building yard, under the direction of the War-office, who were desirous of making some experi xnents with it. He therefore saw the late Lord Har bert upon it, who told him that there had bees we many difficulties with the ciontraetor and with Captain Coles, and so many delays, that he thought the cupola never would be completed, and that W be would take it off his hands he should be very glad. He said he would try, and he bad it removed io 1861 from Mr. Soott Russell's yard to Woolwich, and in about four month's time they finished it, and put it on board the Thunderer. It was tried, and he considered it sumeadal in shoeing its great power of resistance of the gum of that day. For the purpose of attack he considered it very sum medal, and be went so far as to have • design prepared with a view of baying estimates prepared for the construc t:Ms of a cupola vessel for coast defence. He, therefor, thought it was somewhat hard upon him to be told that he was adverse to the principle, seeing that he even went out of his way to have the prin ciple tried, and even complimented Captain Coles on his icveriticre. In the estimates of 1862 money was taken for the building of such • vessel for coast defence. At that time came the report of the per formance of the Monitor, and the whole country was then in favour of the cupola system. They finished the vessel, and also cut down the Royal Sovereign, in order to give an Caportunit•y to try the principle at sea ; and be agreed that ptain Coles should be employed by the Admiralty to superintend the building and arrangement of these vessels It was then said that the Admiralty had adopted a rival plan—had adopted the box principle, an invention of Mr. Reed. That was totally Moor reel. Mr. Reed never invented the box principle. What was called the box principle was the principle on which the Warrior was oonstmoted ; it was, in fact, the lightening of the two ends of the shin by Dot having the armour all round it. It was still found to be very difficult to construct a sea-going cupola ship SO LS to be able to tarn the gins when the ship was fully armed and rigged. Whilst the question was under consideration it was neces sary to settle first what gins were to be used on board them ; and when it was stated that they should get • 3001 b. gun, Captain Coke abandoned the cupola and adopted the turret principle. That of course occasioned more delay. He west down himself to Shoebnryness and saw • 3001 b. gun tried, bat it burst. They thought they should be able to get a 12-too gum, and they bad since got one, though not • 300-pounder, but • 250-pounder : and from that time Captain Coles had been continuously employed by the Admiralty. When the Royal Sovereign went to sea he put ter under the command of Captain Shemrd Osborne, because he had • predilection for cupola ships, sod he reported that if the improvements be suggested were carried out they would become good coast defence ships, and quite capable, with prudent management, of proceed ing from one port to soother. That was not very encou raging for the construction of ships that were required for s ass -going ships as well as for fighting qualities. The Scorpion, which was one of the rains that they purchased at Liverpool, was unsatisfactory, the report of her being that she was asuncomfortableonthe lower deck os possible. It was most important that the shies should be made com fortable for the men. The Admiralty appointed a com mittee of naval offieers, of which Lord Lauderdale was the chairman, to consider • design by Captain Coles, sent in 1864 to compete with the Pallas. They took a good deal of evidence, and recommeoded the Admiralty not to build the ship, and stated there objections to it. They said it was most desirable that they should build a cupola, er turret ship to awry two turrets. He (the Duke of Somerset) called on the oonstructors to turn their attention to this, and see if they could build a good sea-going ship with two turrets. If they were to build • ship to carry • army heavy gun they must build it with heavy armour. They were now beildieg a very powerful ship, but under their own responsibility, and not that of Captain Ogee ; but at the same time he was willing to seed to Captain Coles any drawings upon which he might be able to give some opinion and suggest alterations of a bsneficial charac ter. As in all probability they would have from 18 to 20 If uat 21 toe guns it would be necessary to carry them in turrets, and he was anxious to carry out euciessfully the principle. The Earl of HARDWICKE said what was called Captain Coles' invention was merely the adaptation of the railway turn table, on which to turn guns on the decks of ships as easily as engines were tuned on turn tables. Be must say the speech of the nob!e duke had left on his mind the impression that he was not favourable to the Aem. fter a few words from Lord Dressmore in reply, The Earl of ELLE:SRO/LOUGEE observed that it ap peared that Captain Cole. was neither an engineer nor a shipbuilder, and therefore, instead of having claims to be employed to bei'd these pm-Mahar ships, he was the last person who ought to be employed. The motion was then agreed SALE OF LAND BY AUCTION BILL. The house again west into 'committee on this bill in order have certain amendments re-inserted. On the motion of Lord Itoitirme the ameadments were inserted accordingly, and the bill ordered to be recom mitted next Monday. SALMON FISHERIES BILL. On theraotio a of Lord &wrist of ALDr.ittrtihis bill was read a second time and ordered to be referred to • select committee. The house then adjourned at twenty minutes to seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, MARCH 12. Mr. Doosos, in coisequenee of the continued indisposi tion of the Speaker, took the chair at a few minute. before 4. There was a very unusual attendance of members at prayers, and the strangers' galleries were quickly filled. Amongst the numerous peers prevent were the Duke of CsiMr.dgs, Earl Russell, Earl Granville, Earl de Grey, the Duke of Argyll, Lord Stanley of Alderley, Lord Dufferin, tho Archbishop of York, the Doke of Cleveland, the Mar quis of Salisbury, the Earl of Cardigan, the Earl of Shrews. bury, the Earl of Devon, Earl Stanhope, the Earl of Albe marle, the Bishops of London and Peterborough, Lords Overstoms, Llanover, Belper, Taunton, Ebury, ka. Arch bishop Maiming also occupied a piece in the peers' boa. The Princess of Wales arrived ll3on after Mr. Gladstone had begun his speech. PRIVATE BUSINESS. belreging to the classes. There w doubt, sow dispute n worths the soundness of t be of the working , !mss)—sent I are beggi7, 4 l that war &finite, ,is • Imp daglaitios. ell s " grow ter. otphleal I hellue, lower*, it • u m ' &Oki iioa that can be fated. (Her, hear.) " k,"" 4 „., believe the teem admits d mourata d • • thamweetehldueal:linasilPienyalitheirb"ll;l:4o:l"edOefia!dlal:unirt a W are slie : Y o mid be l lud te e: bi t C e a de i n.A : —‘"r.'nmaa— T im ...., usdallik T kL A ; 11114 is thopkeeping, tistough their wives r they ought Dot really to stied as working N , kind, bat I only tbisk it right to mess (0 01 . - ii is Iht derstandieg of the case. Bat suppose we were 20 per out on that 'decant, the result u those E Ole figures would be that at least 21 per cent, or a 1 1142 lig Pit eat., el the present coonitnenci may bi deed as belonging to the WWI* 04 s. ji 1 ...." 11 16, far I will freely ova that is • lags than I had expected to find. (Oppositi on e i l 4; I c tre amastatine, glad el it. and Cody wish j i ldr.„ l larger still. (Cheers.) But, sir, I must ein epogrt. infuses of the working claws in th e present colM equlQ oies, that is the first plus it is exusei od i i have gem roughly Wier the 200 berughs, lee n ; have gathered together about 60 boroughs in di proportion of thy working classes possessed of the f taken apse the whole of those 00 was net less fn third. I gathered 30 other . boreudbg, p ro b.* b‘ le of greater Importance, and in those 30 boroagiis fires the proportioa of the workinig aliases was ot n siere fi g , 000.tegith—thesr, bear)—and this divtrantOre working claws is not ooh unequal. b e t I li ng „ 114 say myself, u rather of a northerner, the T. is least where it ought to be larg es s-1 the toms of the north. (Hear, heir.) I o z - "m a _ you six towns as examples. In Oldh am , l et ". eoestitueecy of 2,266, the working clams are MI, ee l s: eight. In nasuaz, with • 'unease, cf 4771, the pi , log claws are 171. or one in DM. In Steelman, °pediment, of 1,348, the working classes are 124, er l ug neves. In Bradford, with • eonstitneacy of km a : working claws are 438, or ors in teem In e gg 4Z • coutitnency of 7,217, the working classes are 523, in fourteen ; end, het of all, there is atom which dens c g special mention, not only on account of the deli s/ ak a man by whom it was hat twelensenthe ago represinieN for other reasons—l mesa the town of Rethink new probably has done more than any other teen la issi ed good to practical ruled" a cam for some enfranchassest the working classes--(hear, hear)—because it h a be d s where that most remarkable system, sad at the sight I do not hesitate to say that most vitical and pah a system obtained of ousting the retail Seder and the I ns sign takieg into its own bands the basins ef supply, and where, through the extraordiery and self-acting power of these men, that sy s t em T eueesidully assumed, and become the greatest ec d comfort and profit to themselves. (Hear, hear.) eleth the we? Rochdale, with • constituency of 1,366, Am. eviranoltisement of the working classes of 66, w o bi twenty. (Hear.) If, then, the proportion of the claws to the whole oesstituencies has been MN, tory than we could have supposed, on the other must say its distribution is unsatisfactory. (lien, e st i The ease et Rochdale is peculiar. It so Impels the, district which naturally would belong to the berosiu incladed in it and that illustrate, the necessity of • tog some aonsideration of the present state of any complete view of the representative system. sir, we era very much pleased and in very geed hens with ourenves beak••• we god we have er 26 mist of the sockets classes included in the borough sag tuencies. But how was it in 1832? I have oedemas( to make the best estimate in my power, because thk • very Interesting and important question, and I spereb: there cannot be the smallest doubt of these prountim That of all, that the enfranchisement of the worldigein; as it stood is 1832 was not an excessive enfruchaz and secondly, that the advance of the working dames 1832 in everythi n g that can entitle men to sone e the government of their country has bees a seat me* deniable advance. (Cheers.) It is not denied on my* whether we take education in school,, whether embed, obedience to the laws, whether we take send and a power of endurance shown eider &Mesh =4l63—thou. heart—whether we take avidity f a r 1k: and salf4mpeovernsed—applying . say d them testa there can be so doubt at id that if the working man was is some degree fit to al political privileges in 1832, he has at any rate some additional Strum now. (Hear, bear.) In 1632 were 83,000 tresses ; I take the proporthe Mika helmet* to the working slaws at bt per ant., or Ii freemen. There IMO then the scot and lot roes and. pot walloping voters. Ibave only taken 60 per seat des voters as belonging to the working elasses—end eh, minim that is a very moderate estimate—Nu bat. that gives us 27,000 under this bead in 1832. I WSW to the 101. oceatiers in 1832 ; and as the 101. cosidesee present, according to the Agar's we are now meg, heel per cent, so using the same definition for the mewed completive,lmams them in IEI2 to have been Daly e per cant., that le to say, 26,001 Adding those Apra toga ther I come to this result ; the total oonetitseens la US were 282,000, and the properties belonging to the went* classes, 87,000 ; that is to say, in 1832, they wee 31 fe cent. of the whole, and they are now 28 pa amt. Peel It is not satbdactory, on all paints, to deal wltheihquedia as a matter of pure skeet°, • hut still, if eatiele mei anything, I think these figure; prove, that the piestain of the working classes which ought to have bets a; 011•414, and growing Properties, has been a &Mil • Pul.. and consequently that the time ha a when we sbo eld do sometime* to Meresee the prorate'. (Hear, bear.) Now, may I address sus word to swami opposite? Thus is no wile there is so atntagem whichou lay bidden under it. It is the simplest thiu. n the weld. Let th em take the distribution of - its workingolass voters in diffaent pert' ef pis constituencies, and they will desire Weis uneolatioa from it. Let them obseve the dee ei gbh working-class element upon the coadition of ph* parties, because it is not deeded that there is on the ocin site side a not nensinral, but still a very oinaldersth sppreheesion of the effect of a wide enfreocheereent, are d any sow enfranchisement of the working elutes to /WU of • diminution of those parliamentary Slum which most naturally and Justly those Intkeel regard as essential to the well-being of We date. New, I will take • ease celebrated on one ride and DWI= on the other. How stands the proportion of the wag dews in the metropolitan boroughs es compared Sethi ran of the country ? England, without bcr meroplea boroughs, has, ia her town constituency, 21 per cost at wg alums ; England, in her metropolitan ea i ham only 23 per oink of the working chaos ; apprehend it is undoubted that if there be one sectisteithe members of this home who steadily, osesediy, ed uniformly represent liberalism in this house. and s Me' what advanced liberalism, and I am glad to say Menielea philosophic liberalism—(" her, hear," soda leuth)-E who have been sent up to this house by li en boroughs. Thu, from coestitueeoin with the= Wee proportion of the working dames have been at 1 1 P member.* the least conservative in the petty ese of that term. That hmy small proportion of omeohtits to boo. gentlemen opposite. The government in apptesk tag the oonsideratioa of this question patently sakes bth of 1880 sa their starting point I may be Mad winker we adopt the bill of 1860 simpliciter. Let me sow ant "Amnion of the house to what happened is the dismiss in 1860, and though we then spent ten nights in dohs est to nothing, and though a good deal that wee indent MI said in comparing our owe institutions with those dies co on na t tri bt r, bw yet of some effective we had gone into cleaectimir.eveuldierili°no not ta thick oi milesdl.l 4 we could have held to it exactly aa It was, ay because, in oar view, it would have admitted too etrij persons to the immobile. What was the view we Wain of it? My noble freed at the head of the rework in introducing the bill on March Ist computed that the of it would be to enfranchise 194.006 in borough:g that was, in oar belief, the outside estimate. Bier O. Lea_ rives whom no man could be • more acute or knew ledge, said, speaking from lake Wonsan" that AO" ranthiesment under the bill would be 160.000 in boron ' and my hem friend t ber for Birraileibis took the estimate at from 1 60 ,000 to 170 000, or sad? the same 'mount Ido not think that sox ose who considers oar boroogola rese ntatioe oright . be rhopsned and Min would OW 1616 that was an unreasonable or very large enfranchisseel t Bat it was an enfranchisement badly distributed and iota' 116.1thAlnetr*P°lisf. fea tly y= b h a dw was measured jested causerieill 15. b Whill yt;: ft ha:l:Lail:lea lt , u minds limsdnbt i k e d :ai lm b: eY r fd in t 14: one-third of the whole town population of the coral* and undoubtedly I think it was against us that the spat ties of that bill would have been highly unequal as being the metropolis and the towns of the provincx numbers would have been eafraorshised to gamy towns, and at the tame time what would have hem tio result on the metropolis' In London, under the peel law, these are numbers of persons who ore n o t frees the frenehise, though the law entitles them to hos it. I mean pante:duly the clamed ooropoued househoklen a ai b lAml y b : a lli ni :e al :e re Pn acia i All u ch ei ta l p e ot i m h fi ese ca sa l l l i th n T l7 h ti on r esose cai 6o7 7 4B' ot u t "- r a r . : 7: I was comparatively unimportant ; such was the ral untio ge , I ground and such the scale of rents in Loam. the bill of 1860 was almost no bill at all, end yet mr Dm' friend proposed his bill on • double bads. It is qUill void that ft was a bill for establishing ki rais t a g b a ,: : : : + iss ' eozr oad an zde l wis o a , "4. ooo lso jamee. pe li r; h : i ld em ll ho f en c i r ry p n lns . t bi tr te llac emir tha ece h m lailli t t ire the :; ll63 l 7 i g i i: relation to the Lades eonstiteescies, and the mu l "_,,," persons likely to be admitted to the handers fo the er - , boroughs alder the 64 franchise be esnlamin , at about 400,000 • but • committee of the Huss of 3 who wasidend tl equsetion, adopted, by a large r°' the statement that a& franchise would bays eufran °sly about 300,000. Bet we did not admit t h es e a e!«• ' make ; we held to our own number, d._ placed the number of the working ell". „ . ,f ed a, admitted to the friathise at from 160.0 00 to ""^. If th e bill had proceeded to esemeittes the tee propotill! , Gould not bare stood together. Either the me bah it r_ • other most have been given up. Parliament would se" hate onasatod to bare bought down the traosbiaa to et, J .I-i I.) ' r14 0. 110,11 . 0 Pa0 1 1 VII fia to lo op koellinitir In the the doss ttio .1 Con sumo tirt:rgadjl the i) ; c hug. joy isoreasil si n s goners who fraitOpiaa saniallaua wal gh Thi orahl• load a y width tbelill E ili tZa 8 w° 1 % :0 1 1 1 0 sher I woo l Ir b i o f ro or ky tt i t ie, emi • bill oak , the Mashy, and g leg h • ProPaa was declared by uraninite for the i rafrpitehilement us prove that by attiabem of perso 9 0 s;ratilloient pre a k a * tie franc] Agra; end we fi: egnortain the lurk are yet 1101 finneitioetneot do' the *feet, of ti have already gla By the prawn t I dittos, with reel and losing rated, he hos paid the i ce a certain di ratepaying Maw use, and outs ad, I think ti te, and simegencto to ro te-paying clout mut obettole, felt. It the local stab r, po ls o ppy to] when yes—don't let rote* belonging of them, hays be interest alemen who h goare --- Pleat hr that hie comma. (Laughter.) Ti isw Se overlook. law has been which we Prone' per ropes* to d In irpeol, I ere not less than Mee are habitue lord by an arm therefore. are di any fault of thei them olanars a alarm* are a lma who goose under to admit not lee above the hue =Won of oo _and right should he 6 h a c4olders. a that in std e persons as an economic though paid in eiticeately and I no dlfferance line of diatinotb lord in his rent holder. (Rear: It is defective ii CIF bousebol For the is an . amendmi sating, we shal lag Woeseholdes appear in the b tstepaying hem without hag i k i el h utre l ot au to tl would if it wen and unless the. remain on the 1 nester. Thee given to the an Dent time thei speculative. cause there metropolis fa ' most =porter question—you fiat it is not di is bemuse the 1 the names and Is, to mat th e way In whi let it be u p up r e g i O&M sp the man who ame taste .erly alluded • .polia who i tholl th t ey sots aspen: othlog but hey can show .ia of the deo get them n tied to ask, a fact form as &mikes prooei Of omen nnd. NAY f4t a man PI so 4 on that find NI diffin : Th who the g of purposes it is im 7otto v il, ll thi e rru wl node el alai clan aroutal he will be rein nel thee a war the to yam. so the a Th the whole of t our intimate Wad from ti homes, the is th eoc vii .Ir9Peeeib cieieg to entkidn dicers ; b u t ill be a soli ),lief is thal arm mfrs . n(3 kuiziog cbLir must be bur lakil roes, c u(to 60,000 plink dime 1 . regard Met elan to • whom we pea the Mundt, tram% —that i ether /mop tha same I oc at Si sad ti a rinks la tl abit are !bout takh ae of Thai m year to aditioa of what west Mooned . year, jibed eb oa h tat, to h k there any to rota. WILS I day ha eve ght to a use of I tiee would lent bails th r•lngd I !der wha aTe n t far hingn—each ring and eoc re. la pch tt buts -a i r•-- ~` v