The Express. — London, England, 1849-04-17 00:00:00

d by isedediene ad despatched nut from and the Weider who, is 1843, condemned thanisteds, euffinsed it in 1849. It was is this par, 1670, opt shire - was first appointed • committa of the privy cows ea he the management of the talon ,ies • and heads of char. We were artorwatele drawn ap by Lord So d en for the bond ed2Leirivy council. The colonist *hose goveniment wee by Lord Grey, continued be well governed while 67, — arsine to were regulated by their own 'barters; sad was as leogth arose the struggle in whisk than 'elates are lost to this couutry, the two assess whisk tended principally to light On dams were rimllsr to three whia, were in operation railer the :tiaras trate of the t cassia sinister wady, imposter: hues sad al cosatitatioes witbonethe mane of the missists. In New South Wales, in British Gana, is the Mauritius, and in Jamaica, the colonists were taxed with • heavy elvil list, or by • named taxation wheat their ex premed wishes. In New South Wales upwards of 81.000 L a year was reserved annually. Os the 26th dills last math be; had presented a petition from New South Weld prang that the cos titration of that colony might not be al tered without the c intent of the colonists. What was it which was complained of bet dm vet, conduct to which Mr. Burke alluded during the last eatery when he said that charters ought at to be altered, except at the desks of the =drafty el the esisaists? Similar language was used in • letter written by • number of the legislative council of New Seek Wales. Ti. writer said, it seemed to be the fashion in the British legkinedre, as will amongst those in opposition as amongst thus is aloe, to talk about the expediency of allowing dila* dependencies of the empire to menage their own ouaseeK whilst almost eney net of the Caleniakeffies seemed le he dose from a desire not to eras Nate ' but to What% the affections of the colonists. New , be would ask whether it wen prelims and politic to aim die has. to Mile ; that thews waa ailing in which the 1101011ile sad the mother coentry lead a comae interest? (Hear, beer.) leased el their denied with this matter as became each a Mot. he nettled to find that then was still a disposition to tamper with constitations, sad to trifle with the frallap_ of the connists. He knew he might be asked , " eitt rights have the colonists ?" The colonists had the same rights as we otinelne have in this country. He did act man to assert that all colonists, having different degrees of sivilisaties, could be governed by exactly the same rule, as British *objects in this country. That would bt as difficult to armee as it would be tee goveen by the same laws a city sad aa uninhabited place; but, on the ether hand, they had aeright to refute to British colonists the exercise of any rlgh _to 'lda did not interfere with imperial interests, and which senahled those which they claimed for themselves. He oak seers ,aware that it was exceedingly difficult Sir say chid le govern • colonial empire eo large as that of Grist BMWs. and a was likewise aware that very different spasm were entertained on this subject by suceestive skid mieisters. But the noble Ica now at is best of the Colonial department, In a letter whisk he wrote te the privy ia lad a chars, which he gagilmoll wawa reed) y ar r e a evil'. proposed that Naas dadsMEM bid &naiad upon the colonial minisew *salt thseuirr Meelve upon the privy council. He wilt pr ivy ant why were than duties to devolve upon t se mi? Then dulls, which crested the lowa el the Weise, wore to donne epos the privy aimed waist how the Gimlet Waiter desired. eat kr reams whit k appeared to Ides to require the chasm ma whoa those who eimplained bat when ha who wee eamplethed spirt tasked the tranefer. If it should suit the convenience of the atonal attain to make the tranehr, then the duties won to de voles ea the privy esnacil, not in told, but only ia con anion with such pinta se he desired to get rid of. This was net to nines the colonists, bat the colonial mishear ; it was shifting of his shoulders the nisei bility of his own sets, Riding the rescript of those matters which he desired to refer, ant sot referring ray at lies desk@ of the abide themselves. Lest there should be lay babe en th :ss tim es t i as, he would refer to the snidest, of Ind Grey se gi v en last year before the committee on the arises aeons la reply to modal 6,860, Berl Orel math that, astwidamaillog the chugs which had been mis t the daisies; of reading qasetiose remained substantially eat en toady with the Coload Secretary of &ate ; and lab kali. ship idea, In Werra* to the proposal eontabod k his Maw, "la this proposal I have not aggested a arse rievatisis, bat rather a return to what was amdagn rea the original appointment of the WNW' at he (Mr. Scott) protested against this reposigeles doe. The only :stain was, in fact, a return M the tEarned for a quarter of a century under Sir James The hon. gentleman (Mr. Hawes) would perhaps at in the constitution of the Privy Council, so far as it had eosin' over colonial motors, was comprised all that was high, wise, and learned ,• but, severthelees, he must re pot wit was said by Mr. Pittway in the last century, nimmely, that its constitution afforded a just subject for coat plaiat—oomplaint on account of hardship, complaint on sc ant of delay, and complaint especially on account of the numberiem ant which cane under the head of prerogative ; sad wen the prerodatin of the seamy stretched ee it was 100 yaw ago, it would not be surprising if it led to a similar rapture. He would only allude to one ass by way of illustrating this point; and In doing so he should give not his own opinion merely, bat that of Lord Aberdeen. Speaking of a case in which a judge hod refused to give any reasons for his doting's, Lord Aberdeen said, " If it be tree that the withholding of the 'rands of his derision is the practice, the privilege, or the duty of say judge in any part of her Majesty's dominions, it is impossible that such a prirairle of law could be abolished too soon or too com pletely." 11 this remark were applicable in the ease of the swat country, it was still more so in the cue of • colony. With regard to the general power of a colonial minister, it wee demise necessary that the grown should hays a veto with respect to all to ado of the askant legislatures, as well se the legislators of this country ; but the noble lord (Lord Grey) had himself &claret that it was most unjust to the colonists that the veto open their acts should be nacho& in a moaner so light sad se usesstsin as it rapeseed to be, ham the tiniest* of the noble leakaself. Is this matey goverainent was ia the habit el allies on the adder; of its rempasile oaken ; bet the drain die wham was left to is &maiden of postleria s Westaiatenhall, in a mu ter whisk was ealselsted se protege leek disgust ad awl , - poistment; the opicloss oak. Repoossall Kr. Wood= from a back garret, setting mite the &tidal' of judges. He now came te tie important subject of the audit tar of colonial accounts. For that audit Great Britain paid so lees than 62,0061., which was received by 170 persons. There could be no doubt that if the colonies were allowed to audit their own accounts. the sum might be greatly redacted. The accounts enneeted with the first Amer dean war ware s 0 1 6/ settled in the Audit-calor about twisty years laughter)--and it often happened, he believed, that • • stones of • shilling or two awed a vast outlay of money, and • delay of two or three years. Another important subject was the constant oblides, of po bola the government of the colonies. The colonial minion, Mfare and sines the time of Lord Bathurst, habeas changed about once in 18 months, and during the last few yeses the clasp had been effected mice a year. Not only so, but the chief raker of the colonies probably changed his mind once la six weeks. For example, a few yens ago a despatch was sent out to Canada materially affecting the social condition of the colonists ; it was revoked within a month. A consti tution was sent out to New Zealand ; it was revoked in a year, and, even while the governor acted upon it, he wu in ' doubt whether he eight to apply it to one island or to two. Stkee=4 He would not allude to the settlement of North vagary which cost this country 15,0001. Trans.postation to Tea Diemen's Land wee Bret abandoned, thee /101MOd, end then abandoned again. A constitudea which We ma wet to New South Wakes proved • misfit; when it was ail thin it was not handed to be worn, bat was merely a pales sea out for approbation—(hear, hear) ; and, if he wag act kesereedy inkeised, a similar constitation having lin awe to the Cape of Good Hope, it was found quite isasentinale is that colony. This cup and hall patios, this gam of banisters and shuttlecock, might be very good fan fa Me Cilleilli•eace, but it was sot at all adapted to please the aisaii. (Hear, hear.) But the greatest cause of to halal wafering—that which had consigeed capital to ba =, anted enterprise to rals—was tee laid system vild ia the Aralealisa 'denies. In twelve czythsilat hem aim *milks of presence, and in all ships. sash @aim Mee ar lee the article of a dine Mike. Thin was line the of ill = s y pod; this the Mead of it lip sde ; this et a amid of 6a, them of ilk tad of 2011. ; tam there wire valises kinds of ortaupedea; isalwileg aeon visa by teeides of am ”ar, wad esetipillisa by _keen of 10 At Let the esksW Wain male bk dist ape. yam • @yin whoa which airy salmi! resew sal way = raids and mead which eight or Eke amemittese reaskalogs. But all appoilden was in end natural reply of the boa el the Oeleakl4Cee was, Sit vele, sic le id aid pre raise go hake. Tie the rameatiemapt is t or nine amsamittess were SAM lagiagralie peddles the system. Bat he did net wiltier that dis agile lad ad found time to Wend to wash math= g the minealikad impatrass to forty a thy thigalsgs sad the dlenthwilea el parties miskt dint oat . aka sedialdmie~. coss,kowever acted sad uffillitheaste sl easpalisallie ate of *kw whin a I lassie ereediet was @de w e s t e 4a Weald witelatse, smt when he was rescind to do Sla ef the ellieffel of the coleslaw The Lead it Commalioa in their fifth ree. pet had the eithgeter meek of the 'minty with which kat might be elladasa k tM Australia* ealeelle ; when the bath was that kat woe ismer te Aumirella dm in almost say aim akin k the wed& In speaks' at the alike' mate by eakidel thpelatares, Lord day had observed that so =blokes ea their part could be a kid or go detrimental as that made by the Wild di la with regard to the land question. He aetkipetet that the hon. geademan opposite wadi speak of the agree made by the Australian colonies, eat of the ht,inetitodees whisk they spilled. Their free thelkatioes, however, rassablet the eoestitados of Oast Bekaa shit as mush am did the sea litatism of Teikey eughEgypt. The senetkatioa of the Della Weeks t to Ise ernutterpeits of that of the aim osey ; they wage, la last, sountedeits of it. (Row hear.) The ask. aims hat image, legkktia ant klidadvs annalle ; sad [KM the Enke gad regithaes whisk wan to be net st the Oslealiethee, it with wrier Ili their ps or pdelleges wen very grei _llse peados was, thiF. Asealshilse thew eitheitaly Imo; llit lPP arwhe is them were the wadies of the goveraw, miy applied by the gegaraer self, while mews gime iesegbas Wit eitnatioas at bk ear& eat twee k w ere gr Feeast kir at thisat hely of the Ametabk. Ca Vast mom timps the throoktee, rid& Ouling. - smt Jamaica. Hs waned she Masa, ley the ezemple of the Ama dei state Wow the Fait ePtelt to stadia The war baron this get Anita* ed. =la endue path* &glair Iv fret by the dila at tbe thmn stall las te of Mos maraer imakrette refined to all fat that state a mamba to whom he ea ellealen. That wee wetly the agree perm& it OW gf our akin mew; 1 . I Wel I to t = yews thi twenty e , , = them et i them thi 1 ra b I • whim =1 i , Oehmli 1 Mist I let ,I to sub Wade *ate ad gm I WWII 1 , k o la pert II Immt 0 Mat may WI mein I M eel me lbw talk WWI ma el Was Debi se et se& 1/ ) I ifeee,l aim and M no I 1 t MINI; seit, l eere, II Bs , deem moth itg why a am meet i ii 1 ! t. L THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 1,7;-,11/01. and if it ma yeromored in, the malt also must imi the sass. In the uses of British Onions, complaints were made the the despatch eta British mildest was held I. be sufficient not only to myeloid* ill law in the colooy, but even to pre vent any new law from being enacted. It might be mid on both side" et the house that what had essulal ia North America made It most impolitic to hewed • node. like that under oonsidwation Es that it wee indifference in this conarry to the side et the scene sad the SWIM of diseusslos I , W-h had W Mal war Wield dilloades, whether la Narth Amoeba or elntere. Haw seed astiest be exposed to exist easier a masa she slimed le Oman Oa man ermage meat et is as slam, while a mrighbeedeg co lon —that et Prises Edward's lelead—wes goversed alpaca?h a , or what was and a Willy Mr. Inaba essmasted is hie own "a" " Um than 10 Mann ethos, whilst Ile. Pope, ..hie sow, is-law, held 8; sash* la phieslitim divideabotwees two pawns. If hie maxim WON HM that self-gOreesassat wee a WNW he whisk • pimple wad ad well pay too high • rho, Ms add set ma'am why that blear g was denied to the wades. Waal ale hat entertain the hope that the nosh of all the eadesaare sew sang to notify minis); mimeos ass wesM aid in giving the 'shales • representative neon. lath WI Mr Pitre wish, sad sash had been the castes at /Reglad is brew days, whoa the esliedes 1111110 well is. mod. Other 'manes, ion Mewed the Wh et ease systems. home, Portsgel, Ilan Why thea did Myles' rammes spasm mink& aminmeat whin made her ethaise hr ems repeals' 1 Tien was no less than 3,171,001 L aims* wring ham She bragefehlog id estry of the minim sr the eatezprios et meishata. Bat that was alp belf of the anneal maim nada by the _Meal system of cassia goviessest. Time INN 8,88,00 M mom spent by the 08/1/AVIT MOMS. seal imiaellhom the rehab of the people. The *tea to esialealla was die Cabal& darn Tee expesillase was most ashangsnt. In= the people, lia a essemerse a 41110.0001., were in the sem of etym. The Maarides, with ma sr pert trade fri 1. , pad 880,10101., or about 21. s heal, 4,6 1., lantion Guises was taxed at the rata of his a haker b us iae were sow dissonented with the new ge nres, whom they bed bees tanghtMexpeetsomuth. In Jambe then was a advisee Wham el 306,000 k on as upset Imiedlo4,oool, er that 44 per mat. The revenues of Imola wire 195,7001. ; its explatheme UMW, and whilst the gown= of that colony was awed* hem= Lions for retreseineest, the Coloskidthes newel M the salaries of the government eines mese for the latmeste of the gemeases I th bs Vi l lall IPO. versed. The principle IC heel ecatoil our hag tunas bed beat repeatedly' and by the mem sew is other. Why, the, did they edam to reario it is the ealasies,• sad obey to the eekaleta Na anted wash aclaimed over the fads seised beat their awn eta ? Whoa the present government "poke in favour of government, they repoommeaded what they did net practise; their actions did net squire with their words. With MGM to migration again: Emigration, or rather, the a . ntrisa prenaing (rem this emietry, was exceed- Wily meal la amount, whilst the expatriation of British rab ies' we., as the coatrary, very great. The Colonel Cheerier stated that Ia 24 yams 2,000,000 persons had left En This was more than the actin population of all the eat "denies pat together. Where, then, had these 2,000,000 peens ram ? To the tided State ; where, since those had bola lost to England, the people had =ria sambas from 2,000,000 ti 18,000,000 ; whin the tide of emigration to those states was from 40 to 60 per mat. of all tho panne who left Ragland. Last year the pro portion which west to the United States of the British era gnat was Pi pa "wt, being 188,000 out of 248,000. The Illsigialiss VI u was very extravagant and faulty. The whole of the British colonies did not contain as many Baia kaallgOla as there were pauper. in the British widtheaties, mire the mantry was told that the colonies nos sear is so paha a state as they were at this moment. libmaleassetoat pervaded every feature. If they talked about the myna tif the army they would Ind that fifty battalions were serving in the tansies ; but for any really beneficial yarrow they were absolutely useless. For iestanee,there was Italy ens regiment ia the whole of New South Wake. What wee the use of one regiment In • country extending seer 1,400 or 1,500 miles ? (Heir, hear.) Possibly by the nithig of local militias these expenses might be reduced ; hat it WU net his duty nor was it his 'aunties to suggest mass he sting the expense of large military forces, = maw= tar maki n g them more effective ; but he said OM I mead be as preposterous to have the Load Mips of Loam Commander-in-Chief at the Horse Guards as is have Kr. K. O'Ferrell governor of Malts, with • ashy of 4,8001. or 5,0001. a- ear. The system was wrong Vancouver's Island, which pommeled harbours Nether natural advantages, and might have proved of in gsledside benefit to this country, we had given up to a emersy whose ale interest it was to depopulate it, and to rinit as little inhabited as risible in order that they dotes profit from it. Ia New Zeeland, another vale sing, a similar system bad been pursued. The go venom* taiespereed crime and shovelled out poverty, and deiced ad it Iris the most beneficial, the most successful system of sidowitatioe that the world ever saw. For his peat, be hand that the affects of the colonial system were most itheMegli. (HOW.) He was convinced that our colonists, ass body. _IMO Nyal subjects; but if 111 isa Wed lon did exist any w c = a bg i nhea frees the feeling that the trust repoied in the bed at been emend in such • manner as to merit the malidean sr to win the regard of the colonists. He culled spa the wormed to pause ere it was too late, and he waned them that if they delayed long to grant rasa- MSS of Tak4 knead of causing the sceptre of her Majesty le sena over a well effected and innate population, their et=woad be alienated from her rule, and they would ineseer from some other source. (Hear, hear.) 'the hen. Bentham emended by submitting the resolution whisk had read. Mr. HOME neraded the motion. Mr. HAWES— The house, I am sorry to see, does not ap raw to lan that Interest in this important question which I for iss ahead dean; bet the boo. gentleman, I think, mast take the blame foliate& for having reposed a motion whisk I limey thought be seriously intended to have brought Were the bered. be a select committee to inquire into the palled alai Eason relations between (treat Britain and ha deparinsise—a duty I apprehend quite bo red the reap eta asamdttee, sad the terawitiaa of whisk se member - "Me resod Meows of Comma egad sestelay nee hope le see. (A laugh.) On this grand I "hal give • deeded again to the motion of the hon. gentleman—at that I esisnalue the importance of the subject—not that I think, wraleabtedly, that a gent committee with reihreses to epeeist Wean might not he meet undelly 'iMsd i bat bemuse it ii perfectly impotent* for • esen , el this hens mdelly to discharge functions so great and various as them whisk the hoc. gentleman would impose upon it. Bet wish tepid to discussions upon this subject, I em Mad to say that I enter into them willingly. It h set diseasrion upon colonial policy or eol enW alas that I dread, bat it is the apathy which exists in the S ek said, and the mirispresentatioes that are constantly made of oar policy, and the rate and seedling of oar that I wish to guard against. (Hete t heir.) Now I nil take this opportuniry to glance over belt* what I will nature to tali out colonial system. Ido net pawl to s t a t t e that it may not be susceptible of improvement sad albs . Far from it ; bet I desire to place before the hewn as accentely as I fen, in a short y time, • knowlehp d whet is the °plena system. Catenly the Ma. allimma s , speech has throws n o light spa the othnet. III.• hos sr Win • good deal et the ordinary misrepreseststisa reopen log the Colonial-idles and our menial systems, bat he has patted out no INN single remedy, he has enunciated no single principle ea which he would venture to act with the 41111, lot vareehm the existing system, he has =lsil so crie ftun or retort. Now, there are U I may s i speak, existin gn the eth icist e=r illai lf Ws am yin. There are those colonies that hen sepresentatin governiesste, together with what are fisa u t=7 , follfoniMe_gevernmenu. By that phrase I and I believe ft is the only correct interpre taiga of it, that the emotive eel or administration of the governor is deradeat on Na msjarity a the house d reankay. Wherever that exile Shea, the xeresestative govenatest is essibised with the empeasible gmememint, end that I held lathe most puha of canal meat. Bash is Na form 'stab'. hi Canada, New= wish, ad Nova Booth ; and I may say, that in Priam Ed ward's blend and Ilailsaadisad they an psagsleg them selves he it, their propeostioss meting with es on the part sake eslonaleMes. What Is the ea it how ever ? The ken refileman seems to think this Ohs Is the poiser:et the Cassia-Mem to man at ease a puha tom sr giveramest epos the rriesies. Why, the staithlsa e l l i =emestitedlia h this eastern of • oaten ammo d sail el latedgenes. Within that, yea My pm namely mil leledoesly maim Meta iastilatiesi spa a ItTMier, ear) Well, Ikea, I goy M in, to then i...i. missies, that is seas an d in Ca ndi, New Biwa* sad Nova Ina ispeitally, you have at present the mist system of as gmessnesaL TM mown moisiale, deem moths its vets era slimiest laws sad sea: bat as regards them cassias it is emir sled. The rine* sebhets which emeelas say at all, if I may so w eek , are connected with trade, sad I am sire the will see that it h of the portant thiA the mown should retain the pewee el esehilleMeg fiemedriag like a uniformity it pima* between tno seether oweatry and the sondes ia respect to cab Mahn to trade sad ennisee. It we ere to cony eat ear oars tissue of inimserelet pain, I know nothing at mere hoperhase Shea that we ahead endeavour to Is= eslonial ad imperial laws Isleharamay upon that (Hear, hem.) lbw then are other Revertants 'ding, whisk ter be Gelled " rereseatative goverimmals," ad are can Mashy, bt which the " respossible govematest," as it h all* den set exist, and perhaps Ise some time soma edit. Thisaggliss very generally to ear West India ear ails Thom shat h sailed " respeades goveraisst," us &daft this ail stet; and there en "may names why it is pedal* impathie at thereon nismat diet it sheal4 exist. Bat "gas I say, that r regards Me = r asa ass be se hon ea the pert of those who ear esisail oth All them e sepreeratative bodies ia war West ham gektika, however, peen cowddirsble power In the AM beam 'They ban ea satire and over their espeadiewee— leash a highly Important (aturc Take the ems et Jamaica at this moment The 411011 f sever to talons in the Maths or the expediters Oda mien. The a miably raise Ile eta lushes, and math* eater its own sodhatity sod earelateadesca. I de set haw ea in seam day End isterhenee of hie ran is iimalea, or ie my 'libel's* ladle* Calais', era the stablea et taxa tion adeapendidue. In the ease of Trisided k we' mid with Indy that the revenue tell far under the a , eaditore. The • man of singular disinarie mid gnat esilierhaesbeer)—pmpoesd at care to ranee the gat alike te. Was there say to inter relation the part of the Colonial-dim ? Nan Tie propo gel was. Wes iniashaell rotted to, beams there was • clear =t shown he a &mutation of the even- The ratios= uded le °edam lam plithlthei is • great assure d gang Into the eaditioa of that scions,, biasses it is now derunhe coneideratin of a committer beet I. maye4 os tbat Earl Gay hes stated tia rei l g perfect willio 2111 I) %all the salaries there ao oily nannies near, ft link h new* exposed any l e o.* des n the oast of atahlishatnethere, it the sub o ss , i s su gda m egy binght under Ida eassideratioo. ,i s stem thepd feeteda the mama of As. nett ham lo s :l s esess =tor.lieletainne), who knows as sablr it& daring' . But t h er eds a material difference bit Tri- , aided and Guiana; became is Trinidad there is no civil list audibleness, whereas in Guiana a civil list was volunteers& by the colony in 1844, and they guaranteed to eertaln ppnbik officers manes for sena years. It most be rem embered. MOIVOIST, that the frowns, in the West Indies is nit Omer sire; that the panne leaused to the houses of antably de not repressed the when popolatien ; that they are, Ia point of fact, oligarchical bones. Ilk. HUME—So are we here. Mr. HAWBS—WeII, if the hon. gentleman wishes to extend the franchise in the West Indies, he will rd • very great indisposition towards ruck a measure en the pert of the canons. Those bodies represent a few mendleats, and in away nem absentees altogether. In Minn they vote by proxy, and the owners of proprrty here tender their votes for the election of representatives there; au& ems persons hold as many as fifteen or twenty votes Tye bodies, therefore, are not, properly speaking, popular awl seissionative bodies; they are bodies repruoung in tannin nmil eastern. in whale it is necessary that the crown shed& .win a certain esstrel. Wherever you have • class beg hem eat. and • nee bog subject, and wherever tits dispropollden between the two is gnat, with the popular n umbly, se lt is calksi s renneeffing only the dominant ekes, it is nvionsly agemmry - and just and useful that lb mown should be en arbitrator end moderator between the two pestles concerned. That is pro ds* the can in all the West India islands, and therefore I say that it is useful, and just, and sound policy foe the crown to retain that power is those colonies. (Hear hear.) Bat there is very little interference with colonial legislation. I remember, on a former occasion, referring to a man whisk I had had prepared upon that point, and which showed, if I recollect rightly, this result: that out of 912 local ordinances, only 65 were reserved for consideration; those 66 being chiefly acts relating to births, deaths, mar riages, and such matters of great importance to the colonies, and to the consideration of which the home 'oversewn could bring a degree of experiences and knowledge which might be most beneficially applied. (Hear, hear.) Now, with regard to the interests of tee emancipated chases in the West lodise, I say it is just and right that the crown should retain a certain power over the legislation of three olio sies, sad that that mast be the cue lima the mane nano* Jester than they are likely to do, I for, la intelligence and information. There have been many collisions upon this subject between the planters mai the Colonial-office. It is not tor me to say that the Co. lenial-offiee has been always right and the phases always wren. Bat the Colonial-office had a high duty imposed upeait. It had to watch over the interests of the peat ma- Polity of the population of the West Indies; and it was a duty which it could not shake off without abandning the most definable and weakest clue of her Majesty's subjects in those colonies. (Hear, hear.) I now pas from this class etcetera, to what are called " Crown Colonies." The go .4lllllllSt in these colonies varies. Certain of them are by a governor d council, the council consisting Lire and solely of oiliest members, and is others of of big sad andtal members. The colonies with an unofficial corned an Australia, the Cape of Good Hope, New Zealand, the Mauritius, and Ceylon. I except New South Wales be anie Ia that colony 26 members out of the 36 who compose tautened an elected by the people at large, and the gore-r -awness majority in the council. There are then °natio other selsaiss where the council is composed alone of official semdbere. They include oar minor clue of colonies, oar Mina settlements, Hong-Hoeg, Malts, and Gibraltar, whin partake almost more of the character of millitary stile= then of colonies Now, I will stets the result of eer mini& system, and I think it will appear striking. We hew 4$ colonies, cad not 60, 60, or 70, as ha been variessly albs& 27 of these have representative institutions, some in =et degree of perfection than others no doubt, but the have representative institution., including Canada, New Warwick, Jamaica, Antiins, Barbadoes, and all the miner West ladies colonies. I should explain, however. that when I say 27 have representative institutions, I place under that head those which will be included in • bill, which I hope to be able in a short time to lay beim the hones with reference to our Australian colonies. I &eo Inchon the Cape of Good Hope, where the principle has been conned. Mr. GLADSTONE—How many are there in which they aistuslly exist? Mr. HAWES—WiII you take New Zealand for one / Mr. GLADSTONE—No. Mr. HAWES continued.—You will not take New Zea land. Well, nineteen have them actually, and New Zealand has them conceded in principle. The measure is on the sta tute book, and is suspended for reasons which I think to be New South Wales really has them fully. Lord Grey raving fairly and candidly communicated to them what he considered a good constitution, and they having preferred retaining their present constitution, Lord Grey immediately ironed to their wishes , and the new constitution of New South Wales (as we understood) forms the basis of the bill which I shall submit. Van Diemen's Land and Western Australia will also have the same system extended to them as lien 0111 they an beer the expense of It. British Guiana is in point of fact a colony having a representative government, very imperfectly, very defectively, I fully admit, and I should hope that out of its present troubles may come • better aid a more liberal constitution. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the lonian Islands, there the have • representative govern ment. It is, however, in a very complicated coalition founded non the treaty of Vienna. Still it is a representa tive constitution, and the present governor has suggested improvements to which no objection has been made. (Hear, hear.) Sixteen colonies remain, not possessing represents. tive constitution. I take first Trinidad, and I think it would IA difficult for any one satisfactorily to settle a form of cat atitution in the present state of its population. in which the whites are a small minority, and the coloured population cm 'data so large a majority. With regard to Helgoland. St. Helena, and our African colonies, few I think would advocate representative govenments in them. Ceylon and the Mauritius have been mentioned. With regard to Ceylon, I ventured to say upon a former occasion that it would be quits impossible to have a representative government there, with a population of a million and a half of Asiatics an d tidy 4,000 or 6,000 Europeans. I applied the same remarks also to the Mauritius, where undoubtedly more elements I exist, and I hope that the institutions of that island may be I Improved. Then. there are only those 16 colonies without npresentative institutions. And thus, looking over our Co. Intel empire, we have 43 colonies, of which 27 either pos srsrmrielresentative institutions, or have had them aim arty i y conceded by the Secretary of State. Throughout the whole of them you have a free press, without exception. Ten have the trial by jury generally ; and in those points leg representative inst itutions they have the entire control of the purse. As an Englishman, indeed, I must say that nook with pride upon our colonial empire, as one which, in my opinion, contented with any other colonial empire, does reflect honour and credit noon this country. (Hear.) I have been much misrepresented by the hos. gentleman. The words I used were these—" Now it was not for him to presume to defend all the errors and defects which might in past times have characterised the colonial system ; but this be did ay, that the colonial policy, taken as a whole, was the mast enessedul and beneficial ever witnessed." I. adhere to that. I tie not believe you will find other instances in which countries have freely bestowed liberal institutions and poli tical frangible en their colonies to the same extent se Eng land. lem not defending the Colonial-office, be t l am 'peaking of the colonial policy of England ; say that the colonial policy of England, taken Si a whole, is kesourable to the character of this country. I have thus spoken of the system of our colonial government; I have mid that it is one which reflects endit and honour on the eanstry, and I think so ; but there are great musts of dia conate ; many causes which interfere with the hi:anion working of the details of the system, and I ask the attention alb' house for a short period to what are the causes of dis gontent, and which, I must my, are used vigorously at home gar purposes very different from these for which the colonists me them. The imperial policy clan country bate be car ded out in some of its great and leading festers, by the Colo- Mal-office. The Colonial-dike is the agent and organ of the policy decided en bv this house sad the wintry. I may hai osier bar distinct heads the great questions which have celibate& the sharpest and the meat snap allision between the Celealal.office and the mains iebeiti; rimy bring under bar heads those causes of diffiegestlet . whielt have teen Ible le time existed, for which the Celonal-office has been mail mennsible, but for which gentlemen of the EONS Of Comae= and the country at large are respoueible, sad dee* have to share (the reproach whieh is now band en the eMos which is merely the organ of the priaciples and pellek egy anumeloted Aa g d lis sentry. I will take the abolition et who will look into the history of war aka& 1 imessame will admit that the strongest =mots to the colonial minister by the suesr oolo be serwend by him, and all the collisions and, dose arose entirely out of the policy of this country a to the abolition of slavery. This house decided that great ameba ef national policy and the Colonial-office bore the bad of 011 the complaints, and had to sustain the policy of the ban and yet those friends of humanity who sup. eons' Mot gnat are amongst the most noisy of Ikea wins . That is not all. This house resolved, l etter mew, able debates, that the policy of free trade should he the policy at this country. Did that affect your lesienies f It affected your colonies most sensibly, and yet the Oeinkdolles has to 'maintain those general views; to bring all ling esmilmmais into harmony with the banal policy ; to hear A the seesplaints, all the reproaches, and bear with them en *env of those gentlemen who maintain a large d ebuge of paw whin I consider beneficial to the empire. Take the ores of Jambi and Guiana. Why have they empanel t ici = o rdnetly and emphatically say, w Yea have debre Ihnn UO , and therefore we will inset ea iielsoies expenditure." That brings en a collision. Who beers the bunt ? The Colonial - office. Ism quits sun that any sae who tea read the resolutions passed at public meetings in Guiana must have seen that they attri bute • great deal of the distress to the free-trade policy. If bankruptcy follow, do not visit it on the executive department ; but take a fair share of the blame to yourselves, if blame there be. I concur in that policy, and may of those who an now assailing the colonial policy are not the Minds of free trade, are by no means the men who have stood forward to Identify themselves with its progress, bat under the disguise of the moment are seeking to injure these who advocate principle which they know themsehree are them to whisk parliament and the country have hound the ationial-ofilos to adhere, and they know that my noble bead at the head of the government is the last man to shrink frees earning out tuft views whisk le thinks Vst.A am bound to say that these questions are when everything is attributed to the '""'" ~. a 5,..„ unfairly when ers, and nothing attributed to die OsUerlfilbiell it Is the busbies, Iftllie a ear int. With noted to seethe 'gnat sometimes brags as hdo collision lath the ct igat= New &seek W at wider Is celled thi wrests land qiesties. I again musrloth to the bee. member the Bosh wark, amtothen who are the warmest, boldest, and ablest advocators , what may be demented setke assertion of the twerwa'salglth ever waste Inds with.' view to presethe emi gration and odoeisatimr. That is precisely of what the solealst complains. Here' Is a gentleman who had ems character as to New South Wales, and to supposed to speak their esntiinents with authority, 'WM eemplathe moat bitterly of the Waste Lends Act. The celestes sietie the right of selling this land at any rise at which they me sell I. The evidenos before the council of New South Wales wrietly bears me out. They say it ought to be 20. 6d., 45., orb., as the case may be, and thit they ought to be the judges. lam not raising the question—l am n ot contesting the feet : but It imposes obstacles in the way of the Coloolai-offise, and therefore I beg It may be under stood that it is to the set of the imperial parliament that the Colonial-Dina is bound to adhere, and it is not the policy ei the Colonial-office, but of parliament. With regard moVrring local eeltrvernment on the colonies, so sae would go further than Earl Grey is conferring local self-government on the colonies, and it does so happen that no colonial minister has gone so far in conforrin o ri g l i c s m a t government as he has done. There is really butes. to extending the thiselple of local self-governess.% essil dist is the 'Mane of the colony to receive it. Show nes an Y ens= el may nartindar oniony which is in • fit senithas to moles local self-government, and I will answer it hoe raw ray received it. I have already hinted at another limits bon as to the application of self-government, viz., where there is • dominant clam, and a subject race of any ether elem. In the West Indies, the Mauritius' and Ceylon, *steal satin turd coloured population amounts to 2,600,000 penises the whites amount to about 80,500. Will any one venture to say that in a colony so situated you can rainier local self government ? If you do you must omen largely the power of the crown to interfere with these local affairs. I object es these general maxim which are propounded now and then, that you an to confer representative government on the colonies. This was the great mistake in the Mauritius at the time of the French revolution ; they carried out general ending, without discrimination and discretion they extended franchises and rights which led to • screti civil and desolating war. It they had taken the En .llsh .polky me a guide ; had England paneled die and had mextend the rights, it would 'bootees leas with discrimination, are, and judgment. Then there le anadier limitation of seltgovernment, where ppenos Seth a groat military establishment, and have imperial peemmenst interests, which you cannot surrender —whisk yes MUM* allow to be at all weakened. Therefore in these MOM yea oust limit the power of local self-govern ment to purely municipal affairs, but the general control over the colonies must be vested in the crown. Having thus ventured to dearth, what I may call our colonial system, apart from on solonial policy, I think I may justly de duce that our soksaial policy may be defined correctly as a polity involving the conferring of political institutions end franchisee on every colony that is in a fit state to receive them. There can be ne doubt, I think, looking over the list of colonies to which I have referred that in all these eases the grant of free institutions has not preceded the time when the colony was in • flt state to receive them. There fore I say that in future it will be the policy of this eountry to confer local self government where the colony is in a state to enjoy it and use it wisely and moderately ; but the hon. gentleman pproposes to inquire as well into our financial as political reLttosa. Now, I must say that that inquiry would be really hopeless and endless. You must con eider what are the financial relations of England with her colonies. Is it an early colony ? There undoubtedly assistance is directly given by parliament. In some of the colonies that have been ceded to us very large assistance has been given. Up to 1831,7,0001. or 8,0001. was voted from time to time for the Mauritius. In the Ceylon papers now be fore the house you will find that upwards of one million was voted in aid by Ragland. These things have come to as end the colonies are placed on a better footing; they are bearing more and move the expenses of their establishments, and it is a policy which, while it develops the resources of the colony, will in the course of time enable them to bear en tirely the expenses of their own government. There are large ex nan undoubtedly for the civil esta blishment. The hon. member spoke of the governors of the West Indian colonies being a great bur den to those colonies. He forgets that, in the annual esti mates, we vote a large sum for the eateries of West Indian governors. I shall hear that, ruined as they ere by free trade, hampered ea they are by competition, we ought no longer to extend any favour to them. I think the time is coming when this subject must be seriously reviewed ; I em not disposed to think this is the time in which on ought to do it. At any rate, it is an answer, that the mantes of the governors cannot be considered as a burden on the tax payees of these colonies. Then, of course, there is large naval and military expenditure for the establishments: it has been the subject of inquiry already to • very great extent. I think that in the course of time it will be subject to considerable reductions; but before you do that, you must replan the establishments by some efficient and adequate force, to maintain the peace, and protect the go vernment. No man has done more than my noble friend, and my right hon. friend - the Secretary.at-War. to lay the foundation of a future considerable reduction in the expendi ture of our colonies, by the establishment of local court; by sending out pensioners with certain advantages, with Tempest to land ,• and by establishments where military service is connected with the tenure of land ;. thus laying the foundation for giving to the colones • local force adequate to the maintenance of their own affairs; and I claim some credit for having steadily been • party to a system of policy which is essential with re ference to the finances of these colonies. I hold it to be per fectly impossible for a committee to inquire isto the political or financial relations of the colonies. I have glanced at our colonial system- I have ventured to stet/ generallyin what our colonial policy coedits; I have alluded to some of the causes of expenditure, and have shown that it is not matter fit to be inquired into by • committee of this house, fee it would require • greater devotion of time and more it :femme ties than it was in the power of a committee to give. It has been maid that the patronage of the colonies is reserved entirely for the benefit of the aristocracy, that it is the object of the government to retain this plumose*, with a view to provide places for the aristocracy. In the first place, let me just nivide the patro nage of the colonies distinctly under two heads. Undoubt edly the crown possesses the power to appoint governors and the very highest functionaries in the colonies ; but, with re gard to all the appointments below the officers of very high rank, almost invariably the patronage of the Colonial-office is given to the recommendation of the governor of the colony, and that is done deliberately, and with a view to confer on the colonists the administration of their own af fairs. The minor patronage is entirely vested in the hand' of the colonial governor throughout all the British colonies, and I believe that some portion of the unpopularity of the Colonial-office arises from the disappointment telt at the ina bility to confer those appointment.. At to the appointment et governors—some amongst the ablest of our governors un doubtedly belong to what is called our aristocracy. I hope the time is not come when the aristocracy are not to be sek Med u men of merit and ability. Few would compete, under such difficulties, with Lord Elgin ; few with Lord Harris ; and I even go so far as to say that Lord Torrington has made a most able governor of Ceylon. (" Hear, ' and " Oh, ob.") I may that when these despatches are fairly and impartially con sidered It will be said, and it must be admitted, that with re gird to the administration of local affairs, they do show he is a man of talent. I am perfectly prepared to defend his mea sures when the proper time strives. Take South Australia. As far as regards patronage, it has been conferred both to the advantage of the colony and with perfect disinterested ness. My noble friend has always gone on this principle and has avowea it, that his object was to promote able governors. If promotion be the rule, if men acquire distinction, and that distinction be made the round of ad vancement, of course the higher appointments are given to those who are already in office. To that prin ciple which the noble lord has laid down I ad here, and in looking over the major part of all ap pointments, I see there have been appointments of men holding inferior places to places of higher rank. Now, sir, the hon. gentleman especially alluded to New South Wales, and said that the subject of emirates had been altogether overlooked. I em rather 11140111filla find the has gentleman make that assertion quite se boldly. In the year 1846, there was hardly any emigration going on to New South Wales. In 1846 there were not more than 200 persons sent as emigrants to New South Wales, and 2,164 were sent to South Australia. In 1847 there were four ships sent to New South Wales, with 800 einigreate, and to South Australia 12 ships, with up wards of 2,000. In 1848, 50 shire to New South Wales, with 12,200 emigrants, and to Swath Australia 23 ship, with 5,900 emigrants. It is manifestly true, that by any test that can be tenoned • more soceliefed emigration could not be aided on than that which was carried on by the emigration commissioners. The ships have been remarkable for being well adapted to their purpose, the mor tality has been next to nothing, the emigrants have gone out in health, and arrived in health. By the arrangement' made on the spot, they have almost Immediately had em ployment found them ; and I have no reason to doubt that the whole of the emigration which commenced in 1847, in creasing in 1848, will be mast beneficial to England, and most advantageous to the colonies. How stands the fact with regard to theland fund ? Since, I think, the year 1837, the total amount remind by the isle of land is 919.6691 How is that distributed ? The hon. gentleman talk. about its being crown land. That is likelylto mislead ; be ought to have been more accurate in his description. The whole of the wren:fund so received is devoted entirely to the colonies. The crown has not the remotest interest in it. One-half of It' devoted entirely to colonial improvement, such as reads and bridges ; the other half is devoted entirely to the 'greying oat of emigrants. Therefore the whole pro ends of what is called the crown revenues in these great colothee are devoted exclusively and entirely to the benefit of those colonies who furnish this fend and undoubtedly very groat benefit and have followed. Therefore I am bound to say cha t a llri is evidence to show that a large fund has been raised, and it has been wisely applied, and applied exclusively to the benefit of then colonies. But it is most remarkable whoa you come to consider within a few years the sums of money that have been received. I think that when Lord Grey into office there were no available funds from the lands of New South Wales, and it was in debt, 100,0001. It might have justified the noble lord in stopping emigration, sad if he had hesitated es to future anticipations of the wealth of the colony he would have resisted the et emigration ; on the contrary , he felt contlere r art a h l at such was the elastic vigour of the Delany that it would not only be able to meet the debt than existing, but before leng furnish means for future emigre Lion, sad he raised a further 100,0001. That had been eon esmed, sad mother 100,0001. had actually been raised. et had bees raised on the man* of the crown . revenue, there revenues, that there would be ample security for p a y in g the being good reason to believe, from the groat unease in these principal and interest on the loan so raised. lam anxious, when the grown revenue is spoken of, that it should not be supposed there is any leanest on the part of the crown. On the cogency, whet is called the crown revenue is raised and expended le the colony. I will not enter into the vexed question of the convict system; that his been under discussion in this house end may am* under discussion win, but T ask the hewn to do me the honor to recall to mind the grounds on which I have opposed this motion. I believe it to be thoroughly and entirely impracticable. If the hon. gootteman's object was discussion, I have endea voured Gaiety to meet him on that subject; I have endeavoured at least to show him that his mo tion has attracted consideration and attention on my part. I attach the hithest importance to the eui act Unveiled in this discussion, and when the hustles is thoroughly understood, we shall have less Reno eslides about colonial reform. Remember that the colonies have rights which they hold dear as well as we do our own; they have general powers over their own affairs, and there is mas• Lion on the part of the house to us the Wa- g gles et government carried out than on the part et the Ceienishoffies. The right hos. gentleman himself thought it &swear, to call the attention of the house to the peisesedhige of the Canadian parliament. I hold that the Canadian parliament had a perfect right to discuss the subject in all its details, and submit it to the governce-genoral's decision, and the governor-general win bound to send the act when it so reached his hand to this eountry ; and if the right hon. gentleman respected the principle [of local self-government, he would not have said a word about it, until the crown had given its consent. Then I say that the Colonial-office has had to carry out greet ob jects forced upon its attention by this house and the country ; that it is not to be made responsible foe these differences and collisions which are daily sought to be attributed to it. It is ens thing to say that yen will reduce the number of came and impair the magnitude of the empire delivered to your lands. We must pay the price of main taining the empire. I believe that if you will have colonies scattered over the globe, with merchants living in them with large capital embarked and invested, you must confer protection on their interests and the trade. You must, if you mean to carry oa the commerce of this country, main tain the police of the sou ; and I venture to say that if you seek materially to impair your naval farce, you will And your trade exposed to danger, and instead of being carried on with perfect security, at the minimum risk, in all parts of the globe those risks will increase. If you will have a great colonial empire that colonial empire must be defended. If you mean to say that your colooks are to have no protec tion, while they are to have load governments without dis crimination, I should like to know what is to attach them to the mother country. I believe that our colonies have con ferred great advantages upon the mother country. Ido not wish to see their connexion severed, and I do hope we shall see the day when, from mere mercenary considera tions, we shall do anyth ing which shall lead to the dismem berment of our great calomel empire. (Cheers.) Mr. GLADSTONE said be agreed with the hon. gentle man who had just sat down as to the course to be taken by the government with regard to the present motion. He agreed with him in thinking that no good could arise from the granting of • committee of . inquire on a subject so extensive and complicated ; indeed he was inclined to think that each committee would only subserve the corrupt interest of the government, if it had any, because the committee would find itself so overladen by the difficulties of the subject as to render its coming to may speedy or satisfartory result • matter of impossibility. (Hear, hear.) He did sot mean to say that there were no occasions on which a parliamentary committee might be beneficiaL For instance, if his hon. frisad chose to move for • committee to inquire info the disposal of Australian waste lands in New South Wales, such committee might, no doubt, render good service. But desiring as he (Mr. Glad stone) did, to see the attention of the country brought to bear in an increased degree upon colonial subjects, he was unwilling to give his consent to • description of in quiry which could effect no searching investiga tion, nor lead to any satisfactory result (Hear, bear.) He conjectured that the iotention of his honourable friend was rather to procure discussion on the subject than to obtain a committee. (Hear, bear.) He must say that he agreed in a good deal that had been said by the hon. under- Secretary for the Colonies with regard to the many charges current against the colonial department of the country. He admitted that much of the unpopularity which had fallen on that department arose, not so much from the views or prin ciples of those in office as from their having been the only organ known to the colonists of the views of the parliament and people of this country. (Hear, hear.) He thought that the hon. gentleman curtained in referring to the questions of slavery and waste lands, and some others as affording re markable instances in which the Colonial-office had been placed in collision with the colonists, bemuse through that office alone were they made acquainted with the views and intentions of parliament ; and at the same time he was bound to admit that the faults in our colonial government arose not so much from the conduct of any colonial minister as from the public mind, and that of parliament being insuf ficiently enlightened and imperfectly exercised on the subject of these affairs. (Hear, hear.) Having said so much, he must add that he could not go with the hon. gentlemen when he said that he felt pride in contemplating our colonial system, and asserted that it was the most successful which the world had ever seen. If the hon. gentleman compared our system with those of other European states, he might be prepared to agree with him. Mr. HAWES—That was what I intended. Mr. GLADSTONE—The hon. gentleman had said the most distinguished the world had ever witnessed, but the distinction which he (Mr. Gladstone) was going to draw was not be tween England and foreign states. but between the ancient and modern colonial policy of England herself. (Hear, hear.) He held that a broad line was to be drawn between the colonial policy which had founded the present United States and that which had prevailed in the councils of this country during the last sixty or seventy years, the latter being, in his opinion, far less beneficial, and much more ex pensive in its character. (Hear, hear.) He agreed with the hon. gentleman in hoping that no mercenary consideration of expenditure would ever induce that house, or the coun try, to sever the connexion between the colonies and the p t state, but still the money question was important, inasmuch as there had been hitherto much unnecessary expense in the administration of our colonial system. (Hear, hear.) Bat there was a far greater and more important question, and that was, how we could give the greatest and most effectual development to our colonial system, a question which ) in his opinion, was not to be solved by continued and excessive expenditure from the imperial treasury. (Hear, hear.) He did not hesitate to say that what government ought to keep in view was the great and important function which government had given to this country, that of layiag the foundation of new states in different quarters of the globe. (Hear, hear.) What they should keep in view in raising these infant communities was, that if they established them on sound principles, the political connexion would sub sist so long u it was good for either the colonies or the mother countries that it should subsist, and when it ceased he trusted it would not be severed, u in the case of the United States, in blood, but would cease to exist from the natural strength and energy of the new country being in a state for perfect self-government and independence—when the similarity of institutions, of customs, and of race, would remain in them selves ties infinitely more valuable than any political con nexion whatever. (Hear, hear.) He very much regretted that the hon. gentleman had thought proper to refer to what had recently taken place in Canada, because, having said that it would be premature for the house to ask for information on a subject of great imperial concern, he (Mr. Gladstone) thought it yet more to be depre cated that the hon. gentleman should himself commence laying down dogmas on a subject which was confessedly unripe for discussion, and on which the house was as yet imperfectly lammed. He would say nothing calculated to 'prejudge the important question now under discussion in Canada; but this he would say, that he must enter his protest against the doctrine laid down by the hon. gentleman, namely, that members of that house should not interfere with questions under discussion in colonies having free institutions until the matter had taken the form of law and had received the con sent of the crown, being thus placed beyond the interference of parliament. Mr. HAWES—I said pending discussion in the colonies. Mr. GLADSTONE—Yes • but you could not touch them afterwards. To he sure, colonial laws might be repealed by act of the imperial parliament; but still, would it not be much wiser to interfere in a matter which had not yet re ceived the content of the crown, than to take the violent course of ultimately protesting in parliament against it. (Hear, hear.) He held that freedom was the principle upon which colonial policy should be founded, but at the same time he coatended that that freedom should have reference to matters merely local, and should not at all touch ques tions of imperial importance. (Hear, hear.) However, wishing to adhere strictly to the principle he had laid down, and to avoid premature discussion, he would now pass on to the remarks he felt it to be his duty to make upon the question immediately before the house . There was one henna to which the honourable gentleman had referred in speaking of the unpopularity of the colonial office, which he thought peculiarly unfortu nate. The hon. gentleman referred to the cases of British Guiana and Jamaica. The latter colony he would not touch at that moment; but with reference to British Guiana, he thought the hon. gentleman unfortunate on two grounds— first,made by the hon. because the matter wag under discussion elsewhere ; gentleman. The hon. gentleman and, secondly, because he could not assent to the statements con tended that the discontent of the West India colonies had arisen out of the action of free trade, for which the colonial office was not responsible. That was true ; but did the hon. gentleman mean to say that, because that house bad applie d the principle of free trade to the West Indies, and because the West Indies, finding their means diminishing, were cry ing out for economy, they were, on that account, to be dis credited or disparaired ? (Rear, hear.) Mr. HAWES—I did not assert that. Mr. GLADSTONE begged the hon. gentleman's pardon. Ris contended that the whole bearing of hie statement had that tendency. He did not mean to say that the hon. gen tleman had offered any dogma as sgainst the colonies; hut he thought that the latter lied a right to expect net merely a negative consent to economy, but should find the imperial government urging, recommending, and promoting it. Mr. HAWES—I quoted the case of Trinidad. (Rear.) Mr. GLADSTONE—In that ease all the credit the go vernment could lay claim to was the having offered no opposition to retrenchment. He could not accept or approve of what the hon. gentleman had said with reference to British Guiana. The hon. gentleman bad stat:d that Lord Grey was ready to concur in reduction according as vacancies scarred in the evil list, but that until then he felt bound by the obligations of public faith. He (Mr. Gladstone) could not say whether or no Lord Grey had ever given that pledge, all he could say was that he had redeemed it. The Ur. gentleman had stated that we possessed 43 cohei r of which nineteen bed representative institutions, tied which the principle of such institutions had b en concede and 16 to which it might be held that representative nude Lions were not yet applicable. Thu bon. gentleman's stateme was calculated to make them despised, and at there w much truth in it. The hon. gentleman had shown that Lye were many Antares attaching to the said state of Ott OA miss which made it impressible in all cases to carry out presentative institutions. He said that if you had adm nest race, having long held a position of superiority * , another portion of the community, largeri n numbers waster in the elements of social power, then the work 'oft presentation must be difficult. 'That might be true of C West Indies, and he agreed with the hon. ge l id" that the interference of the central goveroses might be necessary in such ewes, while it might b e s i pulsed with in the Cale of colonies of the rams re and prepared for self-gnvernment. The hon. gentl eman quoted the ems of military colonies which co u ld not anpp themselves, and also that of colooiee which were self -Nip ing but when the people were not of sufficient tandem intelligence to enable them to form representative instil Lions and responsible government. H. agreed w i t h the it gentleman that in the ease of military posts, the i tem interests must sometimes be the paramount considered He agreed also that when you had a colony that , not support itself it was hardly to be expected that should have a legislation merely for the purr se of oak applications to the imperil l treasury. H e w ell that fres institutions stv,uld be accompanied by e support, the more so as the hope of free institutions I t make the colonists willing to forego the opportunity of j ping into the imperial pure. (Hear, hear.) But when came to the lest class, which were self supporting, and wh had no dominant class, then he was rather slow to nig stead why any restraint should be imposed on coknial vernment. Take, for instance, Newfoundland or Pei Edward's Island, and he was doubtful whether hon. gentleman's principle would apply is at case. He did not see that a very large pp tion was necessary for the working of fres institutions I for the fullest exercise of the functions of respe, government. (Hear, hear.) . The hon. geotletnan said I out of our forty-three colonies only three bad MOM governments, and that there was great difficulty in i n during the principle. He admitted that there was g difficulty, but that raised the question of whether it true or a fallacy that it was necessary to rear a Molly • a certain magnitude before you gave it free icatitatioas. was the policy of the present day, but the Colonial-al only showed the fallacy with parliament and the people. bad understood the hon. gentleman to say that many of colonies were not fit for free institutions. Mr. HAWES—That depends upon population &am other ehtnnostenors. Mr. GLADSTONE.—He did not understand why niter, especially when of Anglo-Saxon rate, sad ready to their own way, should not have free institutions, Meek' number of the population was large or small. He held this was a large question, because it was one of thou el principles which had an expanded range, and would, opinion, if acted upon long since, have prevented mu the difficulty in which we now found ourselves. Be confess, although unwilling ti refer incidentally to ten which could not then be fully discoed, 'he deeply deplored the course which bad fo.lowed with reference to Vancouver's Island . ( hear.) This wee • case in which there was no neat race, no military post, but you had thee fairest possible field for founding a truly free n (Hear, hear.) That opportunity had been wantonly Aced, but that question would be more fully gone ink future opportunity. (Neer, hear.) But he hoped would be able to disembarrass themselves from the fall notion that a colony must be fostered by. Dawning They must dismiss that notion, and also the idea colony must contain four or five thousand people be obtained free institutions. It wee in that that our old colonial policy was diatirgukhed the new. In New England, after en espenence of or thirty years, we established local government, at time too when there were only • few hundred people country. In some of the old American colonies e governor was elective. He did not mean to sap' should adopt the whole of the old system, but he that by that system, the colony, in less than one gen, had the power of governing itself. Hiving made II nerd remarks, be should not further detain the hot should conclude by expressiog Lis belief that only by such as he had indicated could they hope to place Mee on a secure and permanent footing. (Hear.) Mr. MANGLES disclaimed any hostility to the m at the head of the colonial department. He thought one point the noble lord was worthy of Cl comma and that was in his recent colonial appointments. pointments of Lord Elgin, Mr. Bonham Mr. Bat G. Anderson, and Sir C. Grey, could not be attribute party motive. With respect to Ceylon, he must from all he had heard he believed Lard Torriegtre man of talent and energy. His belief was t faults of the Colonial-office lay not in the that department, but in the inherent vices of the Looking at the extent of the colonies, their num tance, and the variety of circumstances by which t influenced, it would be Impossible for any Celonial even were he gifted with all the qualifications of a rattle Crichton, to govern them in such a mincer meet the approbation of all pleat s. It struck him, that much of the difficulty would be removed by tie went of a council composed of retired governors se experience in colonial affair., to advise the Colo en all matters relating to the government of cur This system was, is effect, pursued in regard to Ind saw no reason why it should not be extended, rat Landis, to our colonies generally. There might be responsibility of the Grown as there was now with India through the medium of the Board of Con was aware the noble lord objected to this plan, bell , the true system of governing our cclonies was to le to manage their own affairs. In that he (MeMengl , with the noble lord, but he could not see how management was inconsistent with the action of But ell as he proposed, or that the the largest freedom was incompatible with giving to the St State—that ever-shifting officer, whose tenure of off exceeded two years—the benefit of such a council. not understand why so much time had been lost in of Good Hope, New Zealand, and some other cc carrying out the system which the noble lord at the the Colonial-office admitted to be the beat, and in , to them the benefit of selegovernment. In New Z found that • gentleman of eminence as a barrisk signed the office of Attorney-General to which he appointed by Governor Grey, who had, much to selected for the official appointments at his disponi honourable and efficient men in the colony, be government would give no pledge that it was it carry out liberal institutions. He had in•ended to I observations as to the administration of affairs inCe seeing the general turn the debate had taken, he further trouble the house. Mr. HUME thought the house was placed in position when they where told by the hon. Coder• ior the Colonies, and the right hon. the late Sec the Colonies, that no good could come of loyalty. rest hi. advocacy of the motion on what had falls! hon. gentleman who bad just spoken. That ho man had praised those to whose lot it had administer our colonial affairs—he had generally the choice of governors and colonial CS t• had gone further, and asked how was it that , able, talented men—men not selected for their relit or political connexioe with, the minister, the slates aeredit to the country. Mr. MANGLES took the same view on t hat sub boo. friend (Mr. Hume). Mr. HUME was sorry the debate had not tune , what the motion purported to be, viz., the app oint "select committee to inquire into the political an relations between Great Britain and her depen and this was the important part of it a view to reduce the charges on the British Tee ft enlarge the functions of the colonial kg They had gone off entirely from this question. Under-Secretary (Mr. Hawes) had put a bold in matter, and had declared that the colonial sputa me administered, was an honour to England. ("Ile laugh.) If so, he knew of nothing that could be (Hear, hear.) the knew nothing more disiten fraught with just and well-grounded complaint of those who were subject to it, or attended wilt necessary expense, then that aystem so eulogised I gentleman. (Hear, hear.) For his pert, he ti hon, gentleman (Mr. Scott) for Mincing the el ward, and he hoped he would persevere in talky of the house upon it. (Hear.) It, as had bee subject was too extensive—if the questions were rotas for a committee, appoint • commission—(tee but if they were to stand still from day from year to year, they would, in ten years tial same state a. they were now in the fourth n noble lora (Grey) declared that it was the right men to carry with them, wheresoever they went, of British institutions. The proposition now b ward would come moot appropriately to extend as he had proposed when the committee on the t Ceylon and Demerara, was moved by the boo. Inverness, to the colonial system generally, policy by which our colonies were governed. bitted that self-government was the true o=4 l be easy, by means of such a committee lion, to ascertain why it was not adopted and how to remove the difficulties wbie, twin colonies presented themselves against its They had been told by the right hon. gember Peel) on a former occasion that two-thirds of military exemanditure was required for our coloaie it so ? This was a question he desired to see F 4 there be self-government in all our colonies, an, called upon to maintain its own establishment , fray its own expenditure, without calledg upon country, and there would no longer be any qua the Colonial-office. If there was no patronse evoked, and no money to be disposed of be t office, the chief source of difference would I No doubt some of the appointments the Colonial Secretary were good, en bound to join in the praise which had been bee G Anderson, whose fitness for the office he I lected for all must acknowledge ; but that did multitude of sins which had been going on for how many years. The colonies ought to he con politically a benefit to the mother country. neither, of what use were they ? And if the aye were such as to prevent them being commerce or politically advintagems why should the peep ] be hardened withtheheavichargeformaintainite occasion was there for a large military force in et time of peace ? Why should 30,000 or 40,000 up here for the purpose of relieving the troops the various colonies for no purpose whatever' ~-~ a .. ..