The Express. — London, England, 1849-02-13 00:00:00

Let someillake be tried, U ft were only foe Se oaks et aerate.. (A laugh.) Let the hones be edvised in time. Indeed eras paralysed Row. Ohs was struck down te the lOW* j red Moreton there wee all the aggravation of m amma in the present insult. He asked her Majesty's ea . sisters to be erne to their anelsot principte. sad he galled apes the right bea. baronet the member for Tama* to leek et the seem with weak tM mikleil atmosphere was mew eneebereefi, ad is einehletlibether it was net shakable a ta r ass tOriedt. kayo • thus sad Meshed friend by bee aide, of • wreaked add mietralle dove. Be 'awed : Illettehe me leirelleati the eenweltes to teraidese Gosh met. am Me Ile 111 mese geed awe sera Mast the riga a tbe sa lsa to misslem Nabs hetM weeetmm. sepia. w ake. satlem elate et pulitee*tw it Nem et rtinarr. es oho WS. itheitemitagera Masa idir as fsst reserielon is NM MGM diem Weill mkt eeepatko et Me moms ma Mee taw a the kr& preview et the preleg et the Masse Ctimpoilleeenise Mt et lea Jai,. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that 16 lead Mew that the ins:rurien proposed to beriven te emolltee ea this bill was totally b e moistest with the bee mad Mat, if oared. d, it would sot mower the AMA Me km member f.r L merieh bad in view. The Ake it Ike bill is its ties sad clause, was to empower He Limb Vestment or chief immix of Inked to egediesd end detain poems whom be should wrap et of against the government or pesos of the Ciseen.ire ida leg t was po -Fiat undoubtedly that there might be many ese welsh were TIWOUIrIy hoSOCOSt in thenthelv. s, bat it was possible that whim them were coupled with other sob= might come wlthie the knowledge of tlth Lord Lieutenant, they might prove this the mime who committed the sets app. rattly innocent nifibt two in feet eraspirieg seethe the go vernment or pram et lwr Majesty. (Hear.) Bat what possible advantage *MU tiers be in madam the ace to per mit the hold o f paMM meanie laving legitimate ob jets is view hew did the al now fm fine prevent the holding of mask mastkp !Hear.) In what way did It prevent patio geseigl i z..„ hear.) If a public meeting were NMI tea awl pima object, at was es tr. •to hold it wake the GM whisk mow sedated, and it would be ee lawful to Mid k noise ree ea now proposed a' ft was to bold it ham tbi sespeasa act was peeled, or as it would be to held it after the meant act had expired. (Hear, hear.) trader the administration of the slicing act there had been me emplalat whatever a the mode in which it was naiad, est that tbs hen. member fur Limerick bad reitimend, it many oteelegs, that sot a member of the Repeal Alsedation had ben sr rested under the bill, and that no attempt of that eel lad bran attempted to be mat in bees West lie. (Hoer ) This proved that the Ism ember 161 maApremil of emus plaint: it afforded • elm peel that lbe Led Lisatement did not consider that the semaires sought Mr by the Repeal AlloCiatlo3l were illemitimera, or that the nimbus of that menciation were wasp/rag yens, either her 1114 mes pivot' or govornaleet The hews therrfwe might leave the bill to the esedilwatlon end intereeedem of the Led Lieutenant, emiltbut that it would be carried into effect in the fame m it bad turn carried out hi the peat. ar, hear.) Tin responsibility wee • se rious one • but, if the Lord Lieutenant infringed it, kis endue might be fully wavered and celled into examine time by the hones and by the country at any sethemosat period. (Applause ) Mr. ROCHE contended that a reference to the Lord Lieu tenant's letter showed that the object of the measure was to stifle and put dawn political agitation in Ireland. RAWDON would vote against it if he thought it would have the remotest tendon, to prevent boo dismission. Bat so tar from being an act of entwine, he believed it to be its of protection to time who desired to obey the law. Mr. REYNOLDS objected to placing the liberty of the subject on so slender a tountimith as the opinion of any man, mer oe commoner ; notwithstanding the explanation of the fiolicitorDeneral, such was the idiot of the bill. You said it would not prevent peaceable agitation for desirable objects; bet it would have that offset, kg people would be afraid t meet, however legal and eoestitetkaal their object, while the te-r.os of this set were hanging over them. Ho ad. vied Mr. O'Coonelt to withdraw his amendment, and vote against the motion for crannitting this bill, in order not to emprombe himself with the primiple of Mt bill. Mr. ANSTRY joined in the advise. Mr. J. O'CONNELL aka if be was to understand the government to have stated that aotwithstanding the letter o the Lord Lieutenant, and the emasteate thereon of the is meter, for Ireland, the powers of this set would not be seed to suppress aritaties for emestimatisnal pupates t dir G. GRIT repl.ed that he woe mtified to rest kis reply on the explanation eves el the eat by the &Mita- General and the bon. member few Mouthed. Neither the litter Oahe Lord Lieutenant nor the comments of the mas tery fa inland had the form dew. Mr. J. O'CONNELL them withdrew his amendment, stadia he would move it in otausiteee ; sad on the question the into eramittee he answer:Mg be the negative, The MOW divided, wham there appeared F . LT g into icenatittee Tin l4-70 then west into sommitte, and oa the AM chase, . Mr. ANIITZT wed as as amendment wora diving to the Lord Lieutenant is conned, instead of to a certain num ber of the privy esancii, the powers of the as. He we anxious not to deprii the mashy ed the sztodaard which wee furnielsed by respendbility and future parliamestary inquiry. This wield be imp:sable in tie present state of the hit He would now we, aad prom to a divides, ble lest amends. at, for the evalsoloa of the words "is, anr, or." The ATTORNEY-GENKRAL meld ant west t e this anseadmeat, which had in elleat bees anodised by the prin. alple aimed he mesa reading ol the bill. It in host west to as Ike out the stored Seam, and to take away has the Lord Lieutenant the power of arrest in eases of sulfi des' ; Instead of continain the homer bill, this would be to alas a fresh are. He holly admiteed that the bill gave knot yew, sod, in each arse, it was always better to ad[m to old forms than adopt a priasiple which might art be seatroliod by Ismer The committee then dgielTd:: For the saindmeat 111akr. P 79-67 Mr. ANBTET propmed his ether amendments in the twee ; hat they were severally negatived without The blank in the first clause, limiting the duration of the met, was ordered to be Med up with the words, " let of Sep tembu, 1849," The first clause wee then agreed to. Os the god clause, Me. ANSTEY expeorted an opinion that this operation of this clause might be highly oppreedvo ; and though the pre sent Lord Lieutensat might be an Animas, he night soon be succeeded by a Tiberius. After a few words frosts Mr. J. &Comm, the bleak le this erase for the number of iambus of the sounsil re to set with the Lord Lieutenant wee Wed up with tie word " els," and the slaws wee speed tes. Mr. J. O'CONNELL thus sold Meld mem the addi tion of peers &Wabery @ ebbs Sy night, sad air ate a to the abet : " Provided elm s end be ft hereby feasted, that within is this ad essiasi shell be Ilinstrowl es tans le walnut the amok earmlthel, at do- Intim of es4pc est proms tar preenriar, et as to pressen, la a ead seeritalsael Brame, the of mostres to parliessent, or to address the belling queen, la mardense with the law sad esselleation ' • er he et mediae end %Meg pen la the of ends atestiega" lie anteried that it was te to Mare sem limit ea the disturbs of the Untamed as to the this of preens who were desseibed m " respected pares." Bore spathe weeds melt te be ietrodesed, to which the as:B,m . . , ==:= 14 62.7. hb li n. r h wt not enflokrat to rely CO the exphastiest of one Walser, whisk wee heraltately setradimsa by another. with these views he would sow peeper this additicaal deem. Her G. OBEY said the seems takes by the km. sad brewed rather was a medlar est, sad he doubted whether it WY 11.1111111111114 with the raise of the hones. Bekaa going farm emeadiles the hon. member had essepiod a maiderable tire in balm pounds for swim as ea lastrustics to the emmi the moredreat widths he new proposed ; a dr arres tilee, had arra therela, art the rase of the hems had hem Se sissidedly express& naiad it, that the him ad lisionod sorbet's own friesdeled urged Ma to withdrew it. The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Berea) doubted whether the esmetillee meld sow 'arrears this dram Mr. J. O'CONNILL oil he wished the tight boa. baronet (Sir O. Grey) would sere whacker It wee the Sten dos of the govssaimst to worst *Woe for the impel of the sera; he Mil aet abode to the mirth's of the sepal aseeraties ; he weal& pat the prima . Di the aresommat mem to I=rte aide pre =sr webfoot la Derail hem eglarai M the sere the est sissies t Mir O. OBEY.—No doubt the Lied lienteneat, la the maser, el those powers, will adept that aeons sftia he - thinks the eat of parliamat refuters him to pursue ; sad I era sere that, la that 10111116 milker he nor my ether mashie of her ye gmeremait held eat the hope of immunity to say proms trireme tribe, la the seers they perm, essy ieri theorems within the for of treassaable peerless. (Chem) Mr. J. O'CONNELL said this ma at bast a stadia or nem Be shield prow his series to a divider. The CHAIRMAN spats refried to the terms of the so rsa. sad rid he hail great Mohr whether, this Wag an ad to osalleas the aw et lest samba, the erase smell now be meeed, ear it had beat proposed es an inismersa to the -emillee sad withibara. thought the has end leaned libillibef wee Weds. the bill by lids eamadrest. The bill related eery reeemehle prstier, while he refereed to bpi sad eon etitatisag Kr. J. (Y e tt l itrELL rid this wee not se • the bill wee Mewled spina the., wham the Lord Lis6eseat should lie rosllolllll greed that the miseiderat sherd be withdrawn DO a abbe wee Misled ea]. The Us sad Mimed amber meld nth improve the bill s and if be were swims le Mew whether It would apply be the ford ROM tho• go ewer to Libra mid 111 MW althatim. =sr the laed Lientratiall maid seat let hisr maw, be bed lesser hirer( wards the aft (Leepiteit.) The sossubbe ass dirdsd, what the zarthers wee— . Fat thetsmilmat• ll Aar* gooratle it wee *ea agreed to, sal the NU pelted ibleebt ethlaillie. Milli or nue' =maw lb, Imp _likeft pee bee einiellies ea die WI, M. P. sow= mid Set II wee set ble Weida to gees die imidormi edit Mil as Ile awe eek ibi re bel essides. ad Nis apes blood die =pow AS, eluded a eels 10 hawed is be desist* vismer, eisidied NNW* eies is weed dr warm deo ef oembiee dee - 4410 i u aerAriblea le Ass Able owe feeds be olgesme imemidee NUM= 1. it, d u e Aid eimemillse weld Nese to th• tote, be woeld 'sly s*ts we miles bk. ww aow wadentoad ha belied that the per bad a salwaity of &Wades. Arid Vile w a_, Whir should have the eliess &km 11^111 would net only hear the bearteste" hall weallske • Seems to soder to them le Ikelb gIS - bad been Tbe rend I.l2oe:r ig g fahoto nxtes p 4 reg lf elljerwedd. OHO he Mimed wail and eat l / 4 ilk tab ekshislorod, end eke 'elms OM cam 111111 me et If veiled se a pane it would memo. haw and the asappnent of the M a rIIATTAM said that be was {alb to king forward em whisk wait slow Oat the - fell members were Oen to Mg : hey al net want meney—(beer, h ear)— dewy men de MONA it. (Hear, Item) He was ems Oat would eatiskatert to Basil& membess. (Hem) Thew were his premise , . hut ft mashed kr them so sane- UM( lbe plan by whisk he would weldsa um of army ihr Me Mkt of the &t am el the people of Ireland. Ms ~ p to devote the loft sad mown rents el Ireland Ibr 1111fnepee. He amid ware hos. gentlemen that the uscssw logs oinaablo,ne _ad& be seen In the bah-beeps of hr. Lambe, of DROOL His object was that this samay dwell be left in behind. liftlbhunia objected to , hie mum befog applied le earn Irish &strew Agreed. but **him the quit and Min rums is Ireland. Bat, espendeatly of ibis, than were the mak et the great fib sestets, which were drawn Mesa his ISolltry and spent is this. He had a list of them + nibs maid give their name. There won the Helmet Devemaire and the Duke of Book isgbans. He. to he sem was mid mt. is property brought 400,1)001. Mr. Whi t e. knurly a member - of that home, bou g ht three towahals Mir 25,0001. He knew that they WWI afterwards set up Mar sale, and sold for 14,6001. The atinclief of heisted arose fteat the absentees. They might be emellent mon, bat they were bed !indicates they might bi very good ua r men, but they were duo t ail proprietors. ( .) Then there wore the Marquis of Martha and the a Bedford. The Duke et Balked was a mey peed ma. bat he had a miserable Irish temotry. Well, there was the Marquis of Cesymbam, who said that he had not the atone of Jai:coring his property. Where were all his awns spent In this emortry. There were the Marquis of Lem. downs, the Marquis of AneLeiree, the Meai ed NINO. sad the Marquis of B. TM tenantry et n the letter wets is a weighed eriaditim ; the property was pies bale--tot a tree wareely to be eses es y part et - it Thet SIM the Mengele et Eli and sa Earl Fitswillisee, a most astaiikeitmen. Bat he knew kr • het that there was aot a sable Isms= hid ewe Mese and Bahama (A of whisk to the *Mk hid) that was set levelled with Ike Then sk th M ee A were Leah Bram, . Witlalbeam* Haile. Cilfg a Za= Aries, Stafford, red, Templeton, Ca Wyndham. Sidney and Mr y Hobart All of these might be melba beileidemis, bat they resided eat of the country; and my perms who Maw the value at a reddest patty could from this eireametanee aeseetat Mfr the inisetl r of Ireland. Mr. Greville, Mr. Lane Fez, and Mr. Orme Gore had also large properties in beheld. Let a tax be tutored as these absentee eml lienthey might keep their 50,0001. Bat it was said that limy always semen lo thatleam ter mosey, awl that this wombat the Wonkyd emether min w paalle. He did net mimenM Oh - koelliag, idler end steasmieg lam gasp. Me already minlissed me toed, tad be maid now wades smother. He wenid go bask to the petition of when the peer catholic@ were doped akar waft 1.0,0001. to sing Clarks. Bat that was net all. In lithe Irish perlismat gave 20,0001. to sapped 20,11100 aseassa, whisk 11111111 Mr the pretinotion of Wieland. That was ant Will the late Earl Fitswilliern was sent to band the eatleolor wen mashed their rights U they paid NONNI The money was paid, bat the moment it ram_ pea the awed was broken. The letters of the Isel of MOO and Lord Pitswilliansac o o o v o e i d , that . ne Here there w a rt: 12141.14 t= "L liad sa b a sen gives 'to UM entity by the Millmbed. He would take the atriums rents draws ielendi at 3,000,0001., though he believed it was mem M bar maser. This deals exam d fur the lest lily yome, whisk mode a total of 150,000,0001. He defied the AIM enthmelleine to say that these flames were mew An Ma. member het asked low hag the 60,0001 wadi last? Why it would last se Wm (Laughter.) Whom a shiaing was toilmand wily IL west se bed the per lam the reartaing 104. beia. paid to saws. It wee dadrabk that hon. sesembses Meridd knew how their wag had been applied. Such impala faith had they placed in Irish Mnesty, that they lei ammlly mode to Mr t r a: i tszwe of their own maw. (Laughter.) The meet i pear _homes Wen be bells • east varying keit 8,00111.1, IWO Weald hem members believe that thek year bed hem m Mad and game= as to give Irish paupers sweet sad mignonette in the: gardens mmoomed with the ? (rLmoghter.) So ill emaknoted, too, was them that his ease would almost penetrate them. teas implaaation of this was that a Map of non who dew eametidag Most the wants of the asneeey bed been nopemeded by Mom who were quite m ilked We OM perimme of their duties. As :married the inks mßli whirl he himself was connected, the Celtiridge alas, Ms *Of bee. Mind (Sir W. Elowirrills) had is marked that the ma Mt mot exceeded 21r. 101. in the ;pound. But he kept the anineriptione made by the resi dent ;hairy. Them is Mt, divided the pear into four clashs ; they to them at their houses ; they thee got rid of the unarming eliker ,• and the only ens ET üby the merriment W i l ia m 201 ,he (Mr.Grattan pay O right hem that amount, if he va mow th anks. the mem which was beteg pursued moused them, Oa 106 people would be made republicans Ind espielbele. " N pa - give m treedom (said the hon. member MO mat =ghee's), we will support yen; if you gin ie air and slavery, we will curse end bate you, mad pi rid of you as seas as we ma." Did boa. atomise think they could moue the aillielsee of the Irish people while they heated them with themmieembh doles stmesey ? If they would not send boob Ishh pegelftseedet the. lax absenteeism. The Ma. muds was( the following amen meat net the soliesleen of =eke liCireland be benieketh directed and de la Ware pay isle the can of Vioc:fresserer in Dahlia, the meant of all wows end ask rests; and that the emit be septic. prided is dryad of dieleasod poor law naked, la that country. The CHAIRMAN apprehended that this motion could not be entertained. (Hear , hear. It was a proposal with nuts it w regard to crown and quit as inoompateat, there ' fore, for the committee to with it then. Mr. GRATTAN said her Majesty's name did not appear. The CHAIRMAN repeated, that by the terse of the motion, the Isom member proposed to deal with the revenues of the crows, and that that mild not be dose without the unseat of the crown, sissified in the ordinary nuaner. The ameadeagat was the, whhdiseen. Kr. 0. GORE said he looked upon the speech which bad just been made as many* an seensatioa against every absentee. Although he melded in Ragland he mas proud M acknowledge his menezion with Ireland, and to remember that he awe had the honour of representing an Irish county; he also his proud at the recollection, that not mach more than two years ago his tenantry in Ireland assem bled sad voted him cue of the handsomest memorials of Beatitude that had ever emanated from say assailer body, for his kindness to them and his attention to their wants. (Cheer) Under those circumstances he felt perfectly at ease with regard to the arraignment of the hon. member. in a "rent deal which had fallen from him, he rh id :Lacs? in all that he had said with regard to ab shish Although an absentee laneUerd might not speed so mrmh =hey in the country as he would If he re- aided h Mill, if he performed his duty to his Ismatry, and task ears of the public institutions of the 'gantry, he maid hardly be Impacted to do mom (Hear. leer.) No ass add reside in is or seven different , &sea at hoe. It pew bb (Mr. 0. Oree's) Arm 'moieties that Ireland led always_ lees shamefully ill.treatod by all the governments of tkie = 6 e i s na pecially in having been robbed of her over and over again Need he go late da tZiel (.' No;'sad laughter.) Ireland was nos unolueland ems at the present day. 60,0001. I Why al the gay se California would not pins her la taste proper whim. (Laughter.) He was not opposed to die mithelee of a poor law • bot he wanted le see one Weed take esnatry, act one whisk was a bear on Idimme. He knell appose this vele of SAND. on peineiple. Mr. STAFFORD aid, the year is whisk we ware sow onlined wauld be bisehably marked by greet restalls, kr geed or kr or% is the history of Inked • and es padialliatt so pe es et in tg is =ael, stakVe li a ls em " , is the medal erases et the pad lidso midst whisk that Woad I had lakrawl, it was spalifyieg to him M "Ahem on this eemaliet a Rem of Clammum far more Apnea than say premillog Reese of Oemmeas bed ever hem, to dinar the amid evils of Ireland at aR ems% in no 'saurian or pum Naha (Rear bear.) Sarommeed bad some ihrward and ailed sir semi whelk 11111 bra skim Otis the bows bad bra eordisbli wholly to the stated uses. The Obereslisr of , ee bawd, that Me asked wee ls fret 7 14 : 6"l tbe sem se eeries, hat be bed set Wormed the banes what wee to he the auber or entomb of the I. swim Thh was a paha soot emeatiel hems poilemest hear)—be ameba* hoped the permit him M eSir to Ibir late sone Immowould bo had drawn up, hem the mom" se late year hit beam parbammt, as arbklabig the ihessial position of Irelemi to wards Ores Sabi at this time. From a papa poutintad Is 1647, "bowing the tandem levied in EngLnd, and net in Irelaad, It appeared that the amount of this heaths was 10 000 , 81 W a farther sem of about 600,111111 for duties , levhd is Ireland on a smaller reds than in Ragland, making this amount, say 11,080,01161. per maim an Gym of Ireland. Prom another piper gee seated In 1848 it appeared that the total mime of OM MUM ranted is relief of Irish distress was k Nina ROW i bets 10,000,0001 , and the admires made M the kith pew law mime, in addithe, represested the brew won of 1,116,0001., *swards the of WWI' bear ameaut it was owed that a sem "MS 11111/Alliny made by the althea It wee staler time dessmateness that the parent mart of 110,0N1., brig &sled of a mita, wee regasited. la Ike abuses clew bikemilita kam Ike peetrammit as to what farther eieele sewn be creels. he MI esietweered hem the eileseleheethebeerrie mho at wee eseeteelea lenses sullsee. Ihe 111 Woe le obese Meehan especial bed beat made, be hod Om bad beau fa A D A Me, 797,061 mesas selatifsp maser and taker relief, and ht OIL 414000 peens velehlrg maim valet He knied It telheatioa that et the this rho of preeleisee, Itte wadi earl Seel to sub et these pores tee dew Eget rar, as that be lert u rly Num Ile WaC ef these die leapiee =rev. lereld= i t eteee—eat he hutted the unemplisa was hr tee leessialie a ear—abst **number sir dope =lam pewee lad fret lesesiell rdy dem weld am be 41 0 80 sons to MIN: wergila r r i t mild kr mak of mem te be ammul be sealed lee the lewd pavpws diabi=yeat the sea of - - --- L — l — be - 14111111;i aids a 4r.a be • , the_ rued die of the mime behirps t' -- a n at Mlle Madam et the Mks at page 10, i wee alai Mahe areallehle sate was 118,4111. ~ bat he t ira sed disabled the prepay et demeans apothem stem. lb dr hem it histailtdse bad ao holmffen in• ampressing tie emisillea that if the available rate redbed mead the 128,811. of debt la these Wed it maid be pits es amia sehereald inane, bod)Upamtbe whets, he was= meted that belt a teach adds would be . 16 middle to tabs the is them 21 Mims gad la., 1860. (Hear, hem.) It was elated that is 10 or 11 ethers et the 130 liaise there was an expectation that, by great easations, Moos liseasiel difileallise might be avoided. He Meld have bees irseilled to have heard from the govern ment whisk ad the mem was thus favourably Magid of. (Hear, beer.) He tiered much that not a hire( them sapped esseptioaal asses would have to be added, is • very few weeks at all mate, to the 21, which were shed to be overwhelmed with difficulties. He would ask the deliberate j&dgeemit d the hose as to what, even if the lea dams 60,0001. were granted, meld be the remelt ot their idgrality ? These who had exuded the Med- Lome Wheats fir Ist yam, and the returns moved for by the boa. mamba fur Bolton, knew that meld emed the eastades with which all the sconlit hi a bees be i, or rather asst kept. In Maths to the apssiftere et the Ned of Wads la liehad, of the Simmea segami gismo; in a word, 4 shad to the whole el the fiesedd swedes between Cheat Belimis and !shad. (Halm hear.) Of the gamy Mimed spat is this way the gases meat madidi admitted this was ao stens se even hesilig. The peer law esseanie at Inland trit ale pseud mead , bet, feeds Mare, embsehmia di pertlealar haled h was posised should be Weide& The Cbssealloe of the Itaabaqvar, is its very mill sidl Ligneous seed, bed fairly WO them that dm. was not aseallbst the aided symptom d retards/ preeprity in the dumbed ; that, ea the Mat= these were= , sem Sad laid waste, more lost, min stem ideates eat et meat Aid wisli a Wad, was the _eslest of aids= shoe ameba at lids go maid penes d the pew ? Odd- Mita be the wedge et Chemeagia was immegies la the shamed eat. Let him set duds the esadithe et ids edevatka did set Nally the that eves WIMP the 08,00011. graded, - de of the district woad he ieisiuly worm be Pabsearr, 1860, than it was mew ? Everyone awaked with the subject, ham that there was in lid dietrics the strongest didedimatioa to sew geed; wheat. There were thessads upon theaseals of serge !yin waste ia Ire led heat mare desetties by the cattier Monts. How week small, fir the emirs et that land to find the means of isles organdy it ? It these foots could be denied, let NM bd. gamine stand cep in his place and do so. The lIMMOS viol met Ira for the deliberations of a comaittee. Hew laded mid the committee deliberate, when every member st It knew that each day's delibera tes' jespardieed the harvest of 1849 ? The enestive was in penman of these facts, sad led the pews et executing the law. There woe sal s as powst hem allies the parliament together for mem d if these which were in force were ad n A71 1 : 1 o: s le mesas t alone rested eer. Merge of di ttz the country and the beme r i s t e = present With respell to the of the pose- law esessabsionem, he found their sepses ee tabs and their isformation so defective, that he could piste no Manse is the pipers on the table. There was an mar of 10,000 paupers in Balling Union in the piper which he held in his dad. He found another Make of 100 both lags in the sem salon. And yet, upon the faith of these reports sad of the Marne contained in them, gags et whisk the house had sot had time fairly to =Mae, the govern. meat had asked the home to consent te the present grant; propo ing in aleillfral for remedying the state of things in nI land , sad giving as limits to the Meat of amistanee fa the same way which might hereafter be necessary. TM the house was placed be the nailing of bang compiled, by its refusal, to doom to death the people of Ireland, or else to take the ment's w sad urn the faith of it to grant 60,0001. r ' ll2 order to feed 414,000 paupers. The right hos. baronet, the mends for Ripon, cad stated in his pies that this must be the last grant of money for mush a me se. Well then, the 50,0001. meld last ox weeks for the salateams of the numbers he had stated. Where was thegeverameat prepared to No ? The tide et Mitres was Mei, mad thopreseet state of ma the Mere males d Krisdez. He duped he saws the Whawkag isasollmot : Thee alhe spoke arab amilitiss theseddilles to mama In a mem of seem tar Se Ebel deb Aster bola Is have boa easembnisil with as salmis et the prehable amesalt emwdesd he that wespests That the eablend spollealen ot one ell away, Ides( by Os woad unties et lbe wintry, to be reed den ems la Imbed, is disc la ptiest^_ solnet is pried" sea lomat tab masa le the =Waft beaten tbeessives, se taws( to ille. Ong all spilt et segroilinse. Mot k is the duty other May's b istrainn vi beet delay mossnres which way aerate ft . eV; Il e I nesswity et agoiybg to perleassat tor the Midi local distress fa Ward The meadasent having been put from the choir. Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said—Sir, I manly ea relieved by the statement made by the boa. amber Ma has just cm down, that it is not his intention Merge the grant of 60,0001. for the immediate relief of the ibis= so sting in eons parts of Ireland. I own I shoal have semi aced the visiting on the distressed unions is that country, and on their inhabitants, who are without the mesas of sags port, that censure which the has. member feels ought to be pored upon the government, would, in the first place, be unjust, and in the second would be visiting on an molted lag, • starving, and a miserable people, faults which, it they deserve censure, ought to be censured as the faults of thole who occupy the position of the government of this country. I am glad to find that the hon. member, instead of opposing the grant, has thought proper to move a series of resolutions reflecting on the conduct of the government. But, sir, I cannot but think the hon. gentleman has Mee • course which cannot be defended or justified by anything which has se cured daring the warn of the present discussions. The boa. pattern= says in his first resolution: " That, in the wisdom MUM committee, the application to parliament fora great of meaty for the relief of this distress ought to have beta accompanied with an estimate of the probable amount required for that purpose." Now I say, in the first pleas, that this is what has never been done by any previous go vernment wader similar circumstances to the presoak. The Cdarle permed is the obvious and asesseary oae. It is impossible to say with regard to portion lar districts of the omatry how such may be spired until you have the ease Wore you, and know the argosy at the moment. Now with respect to the mien of Banda : the guardians who are there state that it might be to collect a further rats, but they think that the of that further rats immediately would destroy the mane of the farmer. still remaining and the presgosto to be sad Sported from the harvest. They therehre add" with a Mw to allow the huta,try of tke oossegy le have some thanes of maintalaing the people of the osantly, that ad vances should be made in the interim, and as new rate be struck till May; and, assay to their seinimo g ll that period there well be the means of cased; it die 1 for the destitute poor of that union. (Hear, bra.) Her, would It to wise in us to say that in May we Mopped there will be no such means, and, therefore. to vote the nseemvy relief for the whole without knowing what tiu case may be ? (Hear, der.) i l apprehend nor; and I conceive, *adore, both according Is precedent and to obvious and practical reason as concise this matter, that we have taken the course which we were justified in taking, and that we should have beta liable to moue, if, instead of that course, we bad doted the ese whisk the has ragman regigameeds. (Ear, beer.) Ad yet a Me of mpaem fir dist egmfinst d gess ams the first part Ode boa. demaa's rassintles. The seat pert °lbis tesolation is, " That the coatinual applicades dims of massy raised by the general taxation of the washy te the slid et distress in Ireland, is vinous in pr4ipis, = let prialiss, and impolitic with respect to the demegives, as tending to destroy all spirit eI agifoglienes." Why, I Wsk dr, that that is nothing more the. true. (Cheers.) I entirely agree with the spirit et that rem lotion. Nothing can be worse then the coatinsal grants of gamey for this purpose. Bat, sir, the ho sandhi gentleman goes ea to as, that " it is the duty of her Majesty's goverment to intreanee without daisy, measures which may obviate the future aessi:eity of cep Int to parliament for the relief el load Metres is Now, air , upon this MOM I am obliged both to refer its whathas bens done and to what it is proposed to do. With regard to what has bees as" let us not omit that which is the extraordir airy feature Odds cese—that which makes ft as far as the peseat ends his seas, eztroordinary is the his tory of de bat yet Isiah Ise bed misty masked is the speeds olds im. goadsgesa. He Ms saga et de Maus d bead ee the sassy end naval abbe@ at that osustry. New the het, faul t apposhend it, is, that there 100 boon, by the al wises yes please—l say see sew by the fiat of the laws or of the pew =t thus sees beta en Lamm pop& meet= up in parts et Indeed, and more is saps wa g the see wore en-weed be ma, l eg g i i—g hd, not _by the wages ebbed, ail' e yds& as hams ; bat fad by mesas of mall probe of ireemd, es which potatoes wore grown indlident ibr id ingesedlate mate et themselves and their Mateo Time Ye happened airing the last few yeas a gaseamiga et selmid dam, awaspleg away that bed see whisk the people m g alma* dam, bat seder aphis thstat i ree means of support gad empleemed Vidd mit lane bogs extended tO • ve dime be Mar is. atkm aid want and him ry real sa tams =1 re emenitmed. Timed,* been then, sir maidadee of pospiewho have beta altogether without emp loy: eat sad widest toad. Now, we sea imagine la a hem civilised state of the wadi that it any gash failure of food had taken glees, a allies, or two or this minim of pusses wadi have been swept away, and afterwards that another maid have tad their plass, and a mew WU maid have sumendeg to that which had gme beim— lid amiss Otis uns of Muds is Me its souses be a with we s se wady esemeeld, teed widest eat a dad to Zr afaisrame eissak he resift maid has Ma same silk thishasamay *i dm. imseaddeat with hasp of atastry, MU ls will add, shoddy ad moldy to the adds demi dellisetimilsad the wad. (Rear hie.) Well ON, bit e a 180 we ark islosisibiff aft in osier to befr *IN MAO Am- In dO lug ibbellfed of this Waft Old eadftLidas i It ia ll rade hr That. end ' doe Tit m i lt poor-law cam rah syglisd with . uses d the Brad Aigniatial lest put many ktan to the tiajoysteat of amide more enteedeif than tidy add ear hive pedaled in their original tion. Mem, beer.) Ido not now, sir, enter inns qu eilislier lie messy has been rightly spat, fate wb it boobies upended in as unprofitable or imprudent Wail Kin the sand possible manner. All that I bas • small part of the question. The real gadded was wilier or so It was adviabb to keep as easy people der , rree • • ble. (Hear, hear.) That dese t I think whom did and that having bees aedesprd I think lire as •tvis reason to be proud. Well then, sir, I eidit Mat tier theme emetic= Hyde dtoold and that yea have en tie *Ma thing to repeat, that you have nothing to de bet to spend millions every ydr in order to keep the des titute pest, whom me idled a idle," but who may more be milled otinel=el" ( bear, hear ) —l do ed tlr that wed t be a result mid a nen area petegen; but, la Seem place, let it be noel kind Ike sisal* hour enseated to the gran el he nna* lan* if hid down as a role he be —Milt retie lid in future the pointy ef WWI sheeM be maids reneedbla for the poveity - et he. had. (Hear, bear.) Now, let as consider bow musk wee implied ha that. We hear mach said of abeestane—assi if the Weida of landlords. There are, as the ker. gentleman sallnet new, both good and bad Lea r& I bane that there see nosy good landlords in Ireland wises conduit is deserelep every approbation, and when, ezirtions ddatot then, pwAyean entitle them to the gradate of their 001111027. But, with mod to the bad leallads.grevleus to the in trottectios el de poor law, be did serdiag bat receive the lest el his sebum—•N a Sage irwhiese, see a fame . b bellira IMO Mad blsmesne—see *sheen was amid sad destitute received so -Nate was the el the bed Bet he newt be so indifferent now. Whether be sleeve kites is Inked or not whether Its einem te 111111 11 son olio . levies it i r e the se wadesntortiz:l lamt • den ee r4Mad iv these poce peens when Ids en dem bes te ex ea his estates, let et dray that Right have bees regardless. (Hear, hear.) Well, thineei ion paned for Inland a large and extended poor law. what hes that peer law done in the past year is war ds the eidenee ardstdeng the poor? Why, durialh: past year, ne lendsa 1,700,0001. has been collected in ter trieputcistessinntiaingthe infirm and able bodied poor, and I ant to say that according to calculations which I have Nees, samba of able bedied poor supported by the poor rats is by so manses great as that whis k any one would have anticipated from the former accounts of the poor law easmissica of inquiry, and from statistical dew mats of authenticity. I am told that of that 1,700,0801. not above 300,000 1 . can be considered se having Una an tribstted to the out door relief of the obis bodied peer. Such is the calculation made by one of the causidessers of the poor. (Cheers.) Then yea have advanced this step, that with regard to the support of the poor in Ireland, a very great pieportion at least of the maw is now obtained from the rates collected in Inland, end oar of the property in Ireland. /Hear, hear.) Take the ei vaneas made lest year by the British Association and by the government, and you will find that so far from being the greater part given for the support of destitution, they do not amount to snow one-fifth or one sixth of the whole Mount given for that purpose, so that the remaining four-fifths or tive-sixtbs were contributed by the . property of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) If that is the result, sir, we at least see with respect to the relief of the poor that Ireland has greatly con tributed, and I thick that that is • reason why this house should be more ready than it otherwise would have been— more ready than it should have been in 1822 and 1846, although at that time you preyed you mate es most ready to come to the assistance et the destitute Ivor in Ireland—to come forward to relieve the miring Cie. tres.. But sot only is that the case. There is another pleas. ing einsmstance to be isonsidered. The number of unions to whisk large contributions were made by the British Also elation and the sot, is very few. Oat of 130 unions in Ireland, not above 21 received that support. Here again you see that you are bringing the matter more within com pass, and that so far from the evil becoming worse you are uonfining it within a narrow district, and that distinct one almost entirely marked by the features which I have men tioned, via., that the people live not by wages, not by employment, but epos potatoes, with the sea-weed to which I have before referred as mature. (Hear, hear.) Then, Sir, is there no hope lint there may be some remedy? The hon. gentleman told us that there was no hope of any improvement or of any remedy with regard to the distressed unions. I hold in my hand a report of the Poor law Com missionen, representing the very distressed state of many unions, dated the 11th Dec., 1848. In that report it is said, tt In several anions the out-door relief is far less in este nt than films in the corresponding period of last year. For ex ample, in Sanwa union there were, in the week ending Nov. 27, 1i47, 18,460 relieved, at a cost of 472,0001. In the week ending Nur. 25,1848, there were 3,022 relieved, at• cost of 46,0001- In another unier. the "umber receiving maser relief for the week ending the 20th November , 1847. writ 8,495, at a cost of 289,0001. For the week ending, 28. h Ne vem her, 1848, the numbers relieved were 2,129, eta cost of 66,000 i." Therefore, we do see that wits regard to some of the unions there has been a very considerable diminution of the pressure upon the poor rate. I say, theref ire, that you do find that there se a prospect of improvement with r geed to some of these anions. I come now to the consideration as to what prospect can be held out to the people ; and here I must notice a statement , repeated frequently by hon. gen tlemen, that ay right hon friend said that the present mad be the lint of a series of grants. My right hon. friend ha no recollection of hewn made say such statement. That he said, and I said al terwards Mat we would not pledge ourselves that this should be the only grant during the ses sion of parliament is perfectiy true, and I say again, I would not consent, ft the 50,0001. was granted at once, without any remark or observation to tie my bands, and not to ask tor more from this house. (Hear, hear.) I think that I should not be doing my duty in the condition in which I am placed if I consented so to be fettered in respect ti the conduct of the government; but, having ssid this, I de admit that there is one point of - 'view in which this question has been placed in which I think the dawn of those, not who hove ebjeced to the grant, but who have desired explanation, and denudes upon thit great Is natural and reasonable; I mean when they ay here are very considerable taxes im posed upon Great Britain, in which Ireland has no part; here are may parts of Ireland which seem not only to be not stferisg this extreme distress, but seem as capable as any part of England, or of Scotland, of bearing their part of the burden, end therefore the subject ought to be considered by those who have to aireinister the affairs of the country. Su, I stated the other night that I should think it my duty to propose to the committee of the House of Commons this measure which I thought neeemary for the amendment of the poor-law, and a provide for the future annuidatest of the law in such • manner that I thought would be beneficial to Ireland and least bur densome to this country. The hon. gentleman finds fault with the government because they proposed to appoint a committee ; he says that they should at or.ce have code for ward in the month of November with a measure upon the subject. Why, sir, we thought last year that it wee desk.- able upon ths important subject to obtain the benefit of experience, and amongst that experience I find that one of the many charges with respect to the poor law is, that it was proposed en this house by gentlemen who had the conduct of affairs in this country, who had not suMonnt local knowledge with respect to Ireland. If that Is the case ; if that is the accusation ivied us, if we had met parliament, and said o here is our measure ready prepared; we have not consulted Irish gentlemen on the subject, bat it is ready prepared, and we do not men to der it from your representations I" it would have been said, why not eon,elt those who have local experience on the itert ? Let them know what your plans were, ask their advise, awl see whether they would be prac ticable. Sir, I think Ma of the amendments to be proposed is the poor ear deed eestempiat• an encouragement to those whom would be papered to lay out their apical and to Improve and enliven de land in those parts where, partly from the dike him of the crops for the last three es four sad partly from the burdens which have bola impesetf Mere is now an unwillingness to enter on the asapellea if then lands. But, sir, in so doing, I eos ins I ahead asa be prepared so realiat nee to Mist division of the meshy whisk the kon. gentleman seem., in his fre quent trelOnsp_to massmplate ;—I can I cannot imagine last these shame be • Minn with regard to each property in Iratemd; that each of the small properties in 'reload should be homed Mee an decant division, without leading to the alinet MINN don kw di settlement, and thereby doing that which Jidda her hest a great miefertune in Englaad bear)—whisk I ehoali be sorry to see intrnand lac Ireland, vie., kmeding the free circulation of labour and depriving the labourer of his rght. Besides whirl: • law of settlement implies a law of removal. If you fond a ran is Bedfordshire whom parish wee in Gloacesessehire, yea would remove him; but what would be th e eensesesee if you head men rushing, as they all do in the early pert el time aeries from Connaught into other parts of Imbed. Ileglankandiketland, and you were te mad them heat to these diadem is Connaught whisk are mad paupedsed, and where they are at present newly in/rankle of supporting thernalme There could me be a gnaws enmity to the pone of Ireland than to ea tires tae strict law of settlessed against removal in that may. Thnekre, is prepaid say plan of amendment amemiten, I shad eidestear, la the first place, to =t y for the greater ensouregmeent et capital end of I • sad, the ant plies I own I do consider k Jest am in la same way ere other nked should be made Archer to awed the sees of exception in Ireland, and that them Amer MINI INS assn axstseinl as a charge on the pubis entreadhems. Wheihsr what I shall propose on this saline Is prodder or set is of goons a question of im ams imperlasee, ad epee the admits of that nation weed made dent whet is the seem we might hereafter ilikk i< aniremy Mto me Vein. Wow , sir, the heir i Vena inm this • that it is the duty of her pmennest le is widest de a l*meas ewe mew obviate the Mere anent, d g to ter the relief of keel distress in Wand. di adi r lal etatempless a mamma w lek would have that Madenep. Sid den an sear enestiess with reopen to heel spa *MS mama are =kr wriirdkey whisk v iz i% ialredneed sad apseirlddis I be te legidatein the nese of the pseud min. New, sir, loan it to the bon. pallemen r ewe his ewer einne, sad, if be talks it seseeny to pi this mode, es a deeisMisa gasket the is a Achim, I eau only say net I de not thialTi l r= have been advisable to have keeght forward a bill kr the . THE EXPRESS, TIIESDAtIrING, FEBRUA.I4 JB' 18 9 - f vo - /- ~ t s ' i 1 , 1; 4 • t - ' 1 „wo iimayst bk ~, . . -! • 9uest, :• 4 4 ~ ..11- non hundred, Wawa -' ' . wog Vila a .• . agam i l i a sum t - e l ~., . ir=t ,_ .. . Iff t _werejelld Am: him. leatlemanairys, But if awry whh Mat ,_.y ~.. . . i r9 - y 9,1 g• S ; 54 7 5 . 4 f 11 44.111 = 16 t/ • wit is t a b, Meat Btnbskl, • , th e , r., siiTA7ithoul 10 ititplonaelkie_ ,_. ei A t_ • tet ip b• 'tram ounkegmeneu ) 3 Wink that 1.4 WWI ef relief hal .ia terms 'el the . ..* • , •t ~ ~, .) ria tondo in 1 847, sad et efelete that were at 9by ma w. sa a m um efiedrot studbe ' . the she Britith Assocktien In Wilk have ihmilek may of time Imre le epee te fee them twee • ' The pawns to emirate to 44414ar beuntrin, and haviaa all het be a mat, whole eiga=ta ir litise wakes wee •at 41111,1 .011. • mounted the immediate Demos of despair , to lad hi PI eifferky tipsiest townie tibia espeeditate—lheew Irk bees- manned loads a reward for their toil, dto look hewer& Msoot the Dos- 191,41111. ; the ediamme alit knit' emerted to futon to the esjeymast of eoh l i n hrte mon olds& than se arrest It would 237,11. L, the premed dlith of the twines ~pm down at they could over live pemomod in their don. unendmentertim w wittiest • graat ; that I should not Imo ia coming to the house and asking the hems As n grant for the relief of disease. I feel will premeds ate to the einetrary— thrahh ham mill sweat to the great which we have pee -1 de Whys, with time, with patience, with a iodi nate adepeathe of the remedies, we may arrive at that remelt mil* we ell helm, that of wing the state of Ireland impriewei, emil at length happy. (Cheers.) The Marques et GRANBY concurred with the noble lord, that netlike meld be more unfair than to visit the Irish poor with the sins of the imperial government. The whole policy of the gevernmeat was such as tended to drive the capitalist from Ireland. He had no objection to the grant now propeadricat wrested an assurance that the pro posal would net be renewed. Such grants were unjust to the people of this country, whilst they would confer so permanent benefit on the people of Ireland. It was all very well to say that, when the home wee on fire, means :t iz l i tb; properly resorted to for its salvation which, wider cuesmaances, might not be justifiable. Bat what n security had they that the home would not be set at fire Mai CoL SIBTHORP rose, amid general cries for a division, and intimated his determinatioa not to vote br the grant on any *maim whatemr. Kr. HURLS was apposed to the grant on principle and would vote against the amenament,ln order, should that be rejected, that he might have an opportunity of voting ageism the ariginal . peopoeition. An HON. Mint3lll, who spoke from the beck of the mi nisterial benches, said that he would not support her its jetty's gdveraamt on fature occasions, if they came down and •eked for additional grants to Ireland, believing that the people of this country had now contributed su ffi ciently to relieve the wants of the sister country. Mr. MUNTZ attributed the evils of Ireland to " cheap prods.* and deer money." He anticipated no Improve ment fa the state of Ireland, and would not consent to tax the people of this country for the support of the pauperism of Ireland. Some hon. gentlemen had talked much of the improvement of trade. But so far a Birmingham was con ennead, that improvement was not felt. Oar nome industry there was injured by its competition Into foreign =SlM features. (Great cheering from the opposition.) The km. gentleman then drew • picture of the trade of Birmingham. He said hen. g entlemen were in the habit of saying to him, You are finely off at Birmingbam—yon are all eel employed, and doing a profitable banner ;" he had heard reads' of that kind at Bir maghava. (Cheers tram the proteettenish.) He had gone home on ffitharday, and did not see • single man to tell him that trade wee Whir. On the contrary, every one said that trade wee exceedingly flat and unprofitable, and that there were no signs of improvement at present, more especially because they were so competed with by foreign =seem turers. (Bedewed cheers from the protectionists) That very morning, at 11 o'clock, he had met one of his family who had just returned from the north of Germany, and he asked him what was the state of trade in that country. The reply was, " There is plenty of trade in Germany they manufacture their own goods there mush cheaper than you can in England, and the prises yon are selling at, low as they are, and unprofitable as they are, are net able to compete with the lowneu of the prices of the German manufactures." (Loud applause from the protectionists.) A curious cierrenastance hap pened to him (Kr. Kuntz) lately. Some three or fear years ago the f or manufacturers of Birmingham were very aanons for free trade, and they came to him and said, "We are very anxious for free trade, and to have the duties on glen removed. He cautioned them, and asked whether they were sure they coup compete with foreign manufacture. " Oh! " said they in reply, " them is nothing like free trade ;wean com pete with advantage." He pointed their attention to Bo- hernia and other countries whore warm were 13w, but they said, " Never mind, let us have free hide." Well, he came with • body of them to the right hon. baronet the member for Tantwerth, when he was prime minister, and the first thing they asked the right. hon. baronet was three years' protection. (A laugh ) He (Mr. Kuntz) felt naturally sur prised, and said to them that he thought they wanted free trade ; but they replied that they required three years to prepare for it. He asked them whether three years would be sufficient, and they replied in the affirmative ; but now the three loss were gone and it was only last Friday that ' , he received the following letter from one of them : Himaingbam. Nr,—Al the bigatt duties on tint aims will expire mesa, the bole le, Mar. is doom or eapirbor also In tbis ontatry—(dudes him the probestioniscs)—owbor be them coameim whim amanhateraa an prasamed by sa fmpoet asqp Woe allowed tossed eh thdr prodosame hem this kr p lag ep at home by net obtain their markt% at the inns tensnulap os core. The mannisotararolore are mins to msmortslim hr a continuance of duty berm Imposed, as that atoms eta pretsetear trade, from the peculiar natured our marehatere. (Renewed chats front the protectionists.) He (Mr. blunts) wrote to them to say that he would do just as they liked, and that he would introduce them to the minister of the day if they desired. But this was not the only ease of the kind. Hon. gentleman might say what they liked about the im• proved state of beds, but the fact was, there was an improve ment of this sort—en improvement in quantity, not in qua lity. (Hear.) They might congratulate themselves in the 'env manner as the man did who had the fever for twelve months, and then rose for half an hour sad fancied himself a little better because he sat op—(a laugh); but there was not a solid improvement, and he fear d that things would be worse. There were half a dozen trades which had vanished from Birmingham because of competition on the Continent. (Hear.) The manufactures with which Birmingham had once had a great deal to do were spoken of in the newspapers last week as being in a very prosperous :oat*. He alluded more particu larly to two trades—the gilt-toy trade and the bran-founders trade. He had exported thousands of both articles in his time, and now not only did he not export any, but, out of fifty or sixty gilt-toy makers who were formerly in Bir. mingham, only four or five remained there now, and those four or five had very little to do. (Hear, hear.) The brass. founders were also very much reduced in number, and those that remained of them likewise were not fully employed. (Hear, hear.) He left the house to guess then as to what the " prosperous" state of trade really was, and whether the people of this country should be called upon to contri bute to the relief of the miseries of Ireland. (Applause.) Hun. members talked of the pitato crop ant the potato rot. Why, dr re was no end of the potato rot. Let the house refer back to the years 1822 and 1842, and ask themselves what was the state of things then. Was Ireland then preperow ? No; wretched and miserable. The rot with which she was sfilioted was a rot that would not easily be cured. (Hear, hear.) What was 60,0001. among such a people? It was like • drop of water in the omen. (Hear, hear.) He was confident that out of doors there was • very strong feeling against granting any more money to Ireland, and that that feeling did not arise from any stinginess or niggardlisese, but from a con sciousness that in a short time the people of England would want something given to themselves ; and that so long as they continued to give to Ireland they could not expect a large reduction of taxation in this country. (Appliues.) Under these circumstances, anxious as he was to do justice to his constituents and the people of England, he could not possibly support the grant. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the house divided. r the amendment 125 Against it 245-120 On our return to the gallery we found Mr. HUM& protesting against the grant, and declaring he would divide the house on the main question. (Loud cries of idol) The house again divided. For toe grant 220 Against it.... 143-77 DISTRAINING FO tt HATES. The I:ay. to bring in a bill to ena►le overseers of the poor, and surveyors of the highways to recover the costa of distreining for rates. BOROUGH PETTY BEBSIONS. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL obtained to bring in a bill for the holding of petty sessions in boroughs, and for providing places for the holding of such pttty sessions in counties and boroughs. SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE HUSH POOR LAW. Sir W. SOMERVILLE moved the addition of the fol lowing members to this committee :—The Earl of Lincoln, Sir L. O'Brien, Mr. Moore, Mr. Bright, and Mr. Grace. Capt TAYLOR said there wu too large a proportion of borough members. He objected in particular to the name of Mr. Bright, and suggested in lieu of that hon. member the appointment of Sir John Walsh. Mr. M. GIBSON defended the appointment of Mr. Bright, and said that Manchester hod a greater interest than might be supposed in the enactment or good poor laws for ' Ireland ; for much of the distress which prevailed there was attributable to influx of Irish paupers. Sir W. VEItNER said that after what had taken place, it was not his iutentirm to offer any opposition to toe composi tion of the committee, although he might have taken excep tion at the way in which Ulster was represented on it. (Hear, hear.) The addition of members to those originally proposed was a change, bat he did not consider it an im provement, Lord C. HAMILTON had no objection to the name of the hon. member for Manchester, whose services he hod no doubt would be very valuable. But he considered that there was too great a preponderance of English borough members, and that the counties were not fairly represented, there being seven borough members out of nine. (Hear, hear.) There fore, whatever change was made, he hoped it would be in favour of an English county representative. (Hear, hear.) Mr. F. MAIILB said that the hon. member opposite bad stated that be objected to the hon. member for Manchester, because, after watching his conduct as a member of another committee, be felt that he could have no confidence in the conduct he would pursue on the present one. That observa tion could only refer to the Dublin election committee. Now this was the lint occasion that the conduct of soy hou. mem ber who sat on an election committee, Aloe he had had the honour of being chairman of the select committee, (had been called in question. This was a scrim charge, when it was recollected that the members of election committees did not proceed to discharge their duties till they were sworn on oath, or made affirmation, that they would discharge them fairly and uprightly. (Hear, hear.) If the honourable member for Manchester was guilty of the charge of violating his affirmation, this was not the proper time to bring that water forward ; it should have Seen done at the time that the violation complained of was committed. (Hear.) Bat so far from that being the ease, he believed that upon almost every particular question the decision of the committee had been unanamows. The hon. member for Manchester was plated upon that committee by the unani mous voice of the committee of selection, end he believed that he was as incapable of doing anything contrary to his affirmation as any member in a similar committee who had taken an oath. (Cheers.) Mr. BATESON was afraid that this committee would be coneiderede mere mockery and delitsioa for the people of Ireland. (Hoar.) It would be looked upon as an attempt to bolster op the prevent system, when it wee was "m"setlyasial gif Pinweactie tea: (e:apiamariuttlaaslitkstlii"-', perceived that it and others wbo would look favourably on their evei however deformed it might be. It was now amend the matter by adding the name of the lea, foe Mauhester. If that bon. gentleman am. inibetheatiWmuuttailliii.dino:ohre.etwavithttioaktilelabiraciet2tedoloiftmeasifrruwtho:mosti:abeah"dwirissmitbetuformreamnigidatiteetnth,rtralpewrishisweue andile imolai'. seised say kaowsedge of Irish affairs. But if he had, it wade others. Sir G. GREY wished to make one remark as an *o ew tics which had Men made by the bon. gentle men. R *.seakdi suangst his reasons for objrctiog to the use gt hes. member for Manehester that he heard it whispered the body body to whom that hon. member belonged weregelee e, invest a large sum of money in Irish land. H e hopes be so. (Cheers.) That theald be one great rsese e e, placing him upon the committee. He thought that to people of Ireland, end of England too, owed the km. eg o . times and his friends a deep &It of Re for what they had done for Ireland, and every Iridium, e l . stead of depreciating should speak of them with thy gratitude and respect to which their services entitled thsee, (Lo chests ) Mr. BATESON sppealed to the house whether be b e d said one word disparaging to the society of friends, foe what he had the highest respect. (Hear. heir,) Mr. HENRY said that ha proposed the hon. member ht Manchester as a member of the committee beaus at Ye clue of last session he made a speech on the condition et Ireland which displayed comprehensive views. Mr. SCULLY said the Irish agricultural lateral, op e . daily in the western districts, should be (unbar rep s. seated before the appointment of ancther English austher. Col. DUNNE said that, without dispnragem , ut to ye hon. member for Manchester,whose ability and general Mao to serve on the committee he fully admitted, he agreed trek the hon. member who had just spoken that the Irish eget, callersl interest demanded the first consideration. Mr. HUME thought that hon. members should nolfogy that the question of poor law in Ireland was, is English one. (Her, hear.) The very vote whiohrettteeo' had agreed to that night proved that it was. It would ask therefore, be satisfactory to England if the committee y e confined to Irish members. Th ugh he had ea la et o house ter many years, he had never before heard mo o d motives attributed to any bon. member—(hear, rk :rn e , he most say it would have been better if the hon. from whom this charge bad proceeded had made tt at them time to which be had referred. If personal **ethos were to be Om urged, nothing but noplcasantness waste bees, I petted in future. Mr. REYNOLDS would not have taken say p o i f o ty debate bad be not _perceived that it was asmeniag a ay sabot aspect. (Laughter.) There appeared to him Is have been a military attack made on a Reallgate belonging to the Society of Friends. (Renewed laegyo.) Already had that gentleman been attacked by three lelsisi and &captain. ( Bunts of laughter.) There was Ws bo e , and gallant friend the member fur Portarlington ' a Wald (Col. Dunne); the hon. and gallant member for the meetly of Dublin, ditto (Mr. Taylor); the hon. and (*last 111 A. ber for Armagh, ditto (Col. Verner); and the hem red gallant nr =her for the county of Londonderry, newly (Mr. Unoca)— Mr. BATESON—I am no captain. Mr. REYNOLDS believed that although the hen an* her had parted with his military rank, it still beltogy y him. (Great laughter.) It had been said, " Oats a plea, for ever a priest ;"—once a lieutenant, tor ever a capita, (Much laughter.) He wo •Id not, therefore, will ingly go the hon. member of a title to which he had still a elesettek Now, it was quite evident that the attack which had bey made on the hon. member for Manchester was prepared; the reading of the contract from " Hansard " proved tint was not the result of the impulse of the mown., bee ye been well concocted. He would not say it had ban ar caned at a eub which should be nameless ; but he ms afraid that the charge made against the hon. member ht Manchester might in one sense be attributed to hienzelf.lthe not because the hon. member was unfit to discharge the data which would be imposed on him that the kon gentians was objected to. It was because he had happened to sit et his (Mr. Reynold,es) consmires. The lumesanga member for Manchester was innocent of the steep brought against them ; but he happened nut to insomnia (Mr. Reynolds) out and Mr. Gregory in; thrre(ors he us totally unfit to be upon this poor law committee. (" Her, hear,' and laughter.) Now he knew something about b fellow countrymen, and he ceuld sa'ely won the boa that amongst the 553 British members composing it thee WAS Rot cue man so popular in Ireland as ie the hon. member for Manchester. (Cries of " Oh, all Notwithstanding that e=lunation, he would repeat tie* sullen. The hon. member was relprded in belted mtb friend of the poor, and as a man pleading for pop* liberty. No doubt he had dealt out some bard blows against landlords; but would any man say the some landlords did nit deserve them? (Hess, bear.) h d w isc; as i h m o i w n e mo ver b , , p t a w rtl et y n beca the us; eod the a h n e d n. t en he em ba b d a th kn a e t w h how s oh ts Reynolds) wished to see him on the committee. His sp thejus t w co f m ul pl soci ime e n ti t , s th of th i e zei t i on d, ety pe. sf useful was that to which the hon. member blonged. rc ni ula; mde ly en; in fowr c o o ula n al u d e o s nb t en on ta with distress, he believed thane{ Lord BERNARD regretted that the government had net introduced a measure instead of nominating a committee. The house then divided— For the motion Against it 74-65 ARMY AND ORDNANCE. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER proposal that the following members should form the select committee on the army and ordnance :—Lord Seymour. Mr. Fos Mesh, Mr. Hume Marquis of Granby, Mr. Wal.er, Sir Win Molesworth, Lord Charles Wellee'sy, Sir James Grebes, Mr. William Miles, Mr. Cobden, Mr. Sidney Herbert, Mr. John Greene, Mr. Edward Ellice, Mr. Vernon Smith, sai Mr. Backe* Mr. B. OSBORNE was proceeding to propose the ad& Lion of Gen. Sir Be levy Evans, Lord SilLey, and Col. Dunne, when The SPRAYER informed the hon. member that his note would not allow him t do so before the following day. Mr. B. OSBORNE said, his object was to hare on lb committee some gentleman connected with the army, ell would be able to give the necessary information. Col. PEEL complained that the list did not jack& the name of any gentleman connected with the ordnance, sai suggested that Capt. Boldero should be added to theta♦ mines, that hen. member having prepared the caw. I estimate. for four years. Capt. BOLDERO concurred in the nechoity of he* the ordnance perfectly represented, more particularly r tm I bon. members, who were the ornaments of the Msnahels! school, bad pledged themselves to reduce the estimate', possible, as low as rho% of 1835. He suggested that tbs clerk of the ordnance (Col. Anson) should be added 0) lb axon* tee. _ . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sald was thought advisable last year not to overload the ecandON with members belonging to the different services: blab should not object to the addition of the Clerk to the Orissa when the Ordnance estimates came on fur inveatigatioa. After a short conversation, the motion was agteed to. The house adjourned at 6 minutes put 2. tkt Orpreo. MAILS. Tie West India Mafia, excluding Bermuda, Nam; llawas. =,New Orleans, and Mexieo, and including thaw t. leen.dearionsgua, New da, Otuaa saa Pr% Mark up ea the morning of the ilth Feb. The mils for Vigo, Oporto Lisbon, Madeira, Cadiz, and OiteMlN will be mink up on the moratagof the 17th Feb. The midis ihe Gibraltar, Malta. G the lonian Wasik. Aden, Ceylon, Neng-Koag, and via Southaraptim. ll7l be made wen the mensing el the nth Nib, The :mks tee British North Atomic% sad the MINA MIK will be wide tip an the evening of the 23rd Feb. Csnil*th: 7 14th Itaresillee, to the Mediterranean, Bent. Magi of Ficakkong, ko., will be male op on Me staid Rt. The mils kr New Booth Wales, Van Dieman's Land, ad Aar Zeeland will be made up on the events( of the 28th Feb. The mails tor Midair% the Brun, and lame Ayres, via made up on the evening of the 4th March. MGR WATER AT LONDON BRIM". T. Dm , —Maniac di sAIA past s; *Dermot 1.1. PA 0 ; Toate•Admr.—/daralag. 23 WA put Allen." 43 aL.. Mn _ LONDON, TUESDAY, FEB. 13. WE know who are her Majesty's minister., bet it is really difficult to tell who are her Majesty's Or position. And yet it is of the utmost importance to know, were it but for the necessity of fairly nominat ing committees. It has always been considered jai to place by the side of a preponderating majority d ministerialists at least a respectable minority of Ir 'Won members, in order that great questions and Is' tenets, which parliament hands over to the consider tion of its committees, may not be barked. Now we ask, is it fair to consider for this puiP the followers of Sir ROBERT Per, or the followers?? Mr. DISRAELI, as forming an opposition to ail* ministers on great popular questions, such, for example, as the great one of the plod day, the retrenchment of military experldr? Is it not evident to every one that these three are?d• cratio parties are all in the same boat, all equally v' tended in the maintenance of expenditure, .a 1 keeping np of army and navy, and all the m i d i which they contrive to absorb P Is it not, iadw i, evident, that the immerse and anaccountahle lugs* Cation of ten millions in as many years—year* 04 1 profound peace—can only be attributed to the fad the benches of opposition being occupied by men 1111 . d parties as interested as ministers themselves in this re and solemnsystem of annual squandering? Vi l i ar w, how is it to be hoped that the great wort a, inquiry and retrenchment, rendered imperative, al be carried on by these same parties, or by their did gates in committee P We have heard ofsetting a thart ° catch a thief. Bat we have never heard of the Os succeeding where one thief *se allowed to prat by not catching, but by protecting his brother. A wbi and tory committee to inquire into military expendi.