The Express. — London, England, 1847-02-09 00:00:00

people were falling day alter day in increasing numbers ; and there was no remedy but to get food wherever it could be • got, and at whatever expense. If the Irish people were under their power as subjects, let them now use that power ;ener ou.ly, magnificently, he would even say enormously, to order to rescue the country. They knew that the Irish poor could do nothing for themselves, that they weld do we thing without the aid of the landlord,. Let them r.collect bow many estates were in chancery, how many were in the hands of persons who were not the owners; let them remember thet Ireland had no legislative power of her own ; she was in their hands bound dawn and tied in a helpless position; they alone could save her, she could not save herself . " I solemnly pro test that it is my sincere conviction," told the hon. and learned gentleman in conclusion, " that one-fourth of the people of Ireland will perish unless you recue them." Sir B. HALL wished to make a few remarks in allusion to what had fallen from the hon. and learned gentleman. He had obtained returns from the boards of guardians of two of the largest metropolitsn parishes, which showed the amount of destitution to be very great in the metropolis. In one of 'them, the population being 139,405. the number of out-door recipients of parochial relief at present on the list was 6,817, in-door 2,070, niek.ng a total of 8,917, or one-sixteenth of the whole p mutation. lu the p vedi of St. Pancras, the population being 130,000, the total number of persons receiving relief was 10,431, or teeter. and • half per cent, of the whole population. The number of deaths was also exceedingly high ea compared with tinnier periods. Now the hon, and learned gentleman said that Kngland was responsible for what was taking place in Irel end. He differed from him on that euliject. Knowing u they did that the potato crop had failed, the - Leith landlords were responsible for the present misery, if it could be shown that they had not made proper provision for feeding the people. (Hear, hear.) The statements of the assistant poor-law c graimioner, Mr. Otway, respecting Connaught, showed that the responsibility rested with the landlords. It appeared that in the Westport. Cestlehar, Balboa, and other unions, the rates had not been collected seen from those who were able to pay. Mr. Otway said, in reference to Castlebar: " Asking as rates are justly due from these who can pay them, it is unjust and absurd to call upon the government to contribute." While such • state of did/. existed, he (Sir B. Hall) maintained that the respon sibility did not rest with the parliament, but with the land feeds of Ireland. Suppose that in the principality of Wales the poor were allowed to be in the same data, because he and others refused to pay their rates, or suppose that wnen a gentleman in Wales went out by his park-gates, he saw cottages living in hovels, which were not fit to be the dweiliog of a dog : would not the finger of scorn be held up saainst them, and would they not be objects of execration with everybody in this country ? (Hear, 'hear.) Whilst there were resources in Ireland, the landlords were bound to apply them for the relief of distress, and if those resources were not sufficient, the Eng lish people would be ready to afford aid. What, however, were the facts ? The workhouse of Balling was capable of holding 1200 persons; on the 4th of January only 309 were located there. Ballinrobe afforded • similar instance. There no rates had been struck since 1843 or 1844, with the exception of one in 1846, amounting to about 3,0001., of which only 1,1001. had hem collected; — the collection was not, in fact, proceeded with, though it was admitted that there were persons capable of paying the rates, but who refused to do so. Where did the responsibility rest if not with such persons ? (Hear, hear.) Look attain at the union of Cutlehar. There were persons of large pro perty and great influence in that district who refused to pay. He thought such persons ought to be held up to the execra tion of the country. It had been stated that even Lord Lunn was one of those who had not paid his rates. The property in the neighbourhood of Skilthereen was estimated at 50,0001. a year. Sir Randolph Routh gave the names of the owners. Lord Cerbery had (as wee understood) 15,0001. a year; Bir William . Beecher had a large estate; yet the rates were not paid, and Sir Randolph put a question which he should like to hear answered by Irish members—" With such pro,terty as this, with such re soling as these, ought such destitution to exist? " It was of no use, with such facts before their eyes, to come to that house and toll them that the landlords of Ireland were not reprehensible. He was pleased to hear what had fallen from the hon. and learned member with respect to the poor-law. At • meeting held at Old Peace-yard, where Lord Mont eagle presided, that noble lord moved a red elution condemn ing the clause in the Irish Destitute Relief Bill which gave • discretionary power to afford temporary relief at the expense of the union. lie should like to know at whine expense relief should he given ? They should par a law compelling the Irish landlords to do their duty. The landlords did not appear, in many respects, to approve of a permanent Poor-law Bill. That was what the house wished them to approve of, and what it must make them accept. It was pitiable to Rea: the aged and infirm seeking relief, but it was, if possible, still more pitiable to see able-bodied persons in the same position. By passing this law, they would compel the landlords to pro • vide work for the able-bodied poor. An honourable baronet, • who represented a Scotch district, had told him that • in the part of the district which he represented there were, two or three weeks ago, 230 persons receiving relief: and that of that number there were only six Scotch, all the rest being Irith. It was very easy for hon. members to de mand from this country rapport and maintenance for the Irish people, but it was unfair and unjust for the landlords to send the people away, instead of maintaining them. (Hear, heir .) He should be very very, if in the course of his observations he had stated anything at all offensive to the Irish members, hut representing cue of the largest constituencies in the empire he had felt it his duty to give expression to their sentiments nod his own. (Hear, hear.) • lir. M. MILNES said that if any proof were required of the truth of the statement of an hon. and learned member that the house did not comprehend the extent of Irish misery, it would be found in the speech of the hon. • hart. (Hear, hear.) The English nation and parliament were called upon to intervene in one of the most singular calamities that had befallen any country in Europe during the last three centuries, and with respect to which it was in vain to draw arguments and conclusions from the or dinary course of measures. He might presume to speak of the state of Ireland more readily than others, inasmuch as he had himself, with his own eyes, seen the distress in certain parts. He said certain parts, be cause it should be borne in mind that it was not spread over the whole surface of the country, but confined to certain districts. The remedy, therefore, should be partial in its operation. He should re menusead the most careful consideration of the poor-law; . for on the right solution of that question the future pros perity or adversity bf the Irish people would depend. The hon. hart. had spoken of the destitution of the metro polis. Now, he did not wish to draw comparisons ; but he must my, that if a pauper died of starvation in the streets of London, the public press took the matter up, leading articles were written upon it, and the case was put in the strongest manner to excite public sympathy and awaken public hor ror. Why, then, he would ask, was such indifference ex hibited, when people were dying by thousand. acrosathechan• reel ? Was it because Skibbereen was 200 miles to the west of London Snch a feeling would not be exhibited by the capitals of Germany or France towards any part of the em pire that might be visited by a similar calamity. He objected to having exceptional cases brought forward • upon such occasions as the present. Because Sir William Beecher, a proprietor of Skibb.reen, might not have given as much res he ought to have done, were the inhabitants to be allowed to perish ? (Hear, hear, hear.) He took the liberty of saying that this was not the moment to bring forward exceptionable eases It might be that there were unions in Ireland in which the rates were not paid ; but the hon. member should have rather contrasted these • exceptional eases with the cues in which the rotes had been paid, than have cited them as the prevailing rule. (Hear.) It was not fair to make that house and the country believe that in this extremity of Ireland's misery the exception was the rule. And this feeling it was which made him take strong objections to the speeches delivered in the house during the present emotion by his hon. friend the member for Bath. Those speeches might contain truisms; but he (Mr. Milnes) could not but expel' his opinion that it was not decent —( Hear, h ear) —that it was not decent at that moment • to objurgate the landlords of Ireland as his hon. friend had • ebiurgated them. (Much cheering from Irish members.) treat misery and destitution always find sympathy in the hearts of honourable men—(Hear, hear) —and he (Mr. ' Milnes) was Fore that in stating what he had done he was • anlyexpreming the feelings of the benevolent and honourable vople of this country. (Cheering). Mr. P. SCROPE thought that his hon. friend, the mem ver for Marylebeine, had been misrepresented. He had sot understood him to say that the people of It eland should not be relieved, but that, being in need ourselves, it was right that we should ascertain, before we afforded relief to Ireland, that all who were peculiarly interested in the pro perry of that country had done what was right towards their own tenantry. (Hear, hear) He (Mr. P. Scrope) must my that he very much concurred in the hon. baronet's views. • He thought it would be quite right to inqnire whether it was or was not needful to pan such mensures of compulsion as would make the landlords of Ireland maintain their own • poor. He perfectly agreed with the hon. baronet that the people of England would not be satisfied to pass hills lending large sums to Ireland unless they had some security that the landlords of Ireland would maintain their own poor hence forward. There vets no reason why they should not do so. The rental of Ireland was 15 millions a year; the exports of Ireland amounted to 17 millions a year ; and every one knew that her undeveloped resources were enormous and that by . proper improvement her land could be made to maintain three or five times the present population. He joined with the honer able baronet, therefore, in urging the government to attend to the opinion of those out of doors who thotieht it was right whilst they were moking !argues towards Ireland, to do what they could to prevent the Irish from again being a burden to this country. He was ow that evening to hear the hon. and keened member for Cork express opinion. not unfavourable to a poor-law for Ireland. If the hoe, and learniel member had agitated that qui miss instead of the repeal, for the tut six yeare, would, indeed, have done good to hie country. It was a question on which the hem. member for Cork had fre hjuently cheneed his views, but on which he tru s ted th a t, henceforwards his present opinions would prevail Lord DUNCAN had been requested by many of his meet influenti 1 constituents, to confirm the slew* expressed by his hon. colleaeue (Mr. Ito , hurk) with reepeet to their ford ings oa this subject. IL was desired to soy, that many pees ple in Bath were in a state of great distress; hut that the public authoriti. s were united in their determination that no case so horrible An death from starvation should oc cur within their town. They coiled, however. upon the government t see that all moths throughout the Ueite Kingdom who were interested in the welfare of the peer. fulfilled their duty equally satisfactorily. (Hear, hear.) It was the more important .that the government RtiOuvi a'tead a t i• when they re ad such reject. as were eolnithed upon au•holity in the blue hook now b. hire him, with n fereete to the proceeding of landlords in In 1 intl. In tee case of the Castlebar union, they read of bird Lunn, M. O'Mall.. Me 1C0mm.... --A ,h. tmmediste lemon of lands, who bad not paid their rates, sad they read, further, that it was more diMcult to obtain rates from this class of person , than from the humbler tenants of the toil. How different was this state of things from what was pass ing in the north of the United Kingdom ! In the districts of Scotland, where the public rates were not sufficient for the support of the poor, tee landed proprietors had muni ficently come forward with their private subscriptions. He did, therefore, trust that the Irish landlords would see the necessity of altering their course with respect to these matters. If they did, they might then require assistance from the English, but not before. He found it stated in the blue book he had referee , ' to, that the two members for Clare had put tenants upon the relief-rate who were paying them considerable rents. He trusted that they would be prepared to deny this serious imputation. Major MACNAMARA. Sir,—As one of the members for Clare, I beg to my, that every sentence in Captain Wynne's letter is a malicious fslaeod. (Some sensation, amid which the hon. member resumed hi. amt.) Mr. B. OSBORNE said that he regretted none of the Irish landlords in that house bad risen to reply to the charges of the Lon. member fur Marylebone. When that hon. member lectured them in that peculiar strain, only made use of in the columns of certain daily papers—when he made use of the sort of objurgation* which were the stock in trade of o-ators on Irish matters as the member for theKeighley union— (a laugh ) —he mesas for Knaresborough—(renewed laughter) —when he talked articles learnt by heart from the columns of the Times of that day three weeks—and came down there with mangled documents and mutilated information, he (Mr.' Osborne) must say, that it did surprise him to fin d that no Irish landlord was to be seen to rho from hie seat to ammo. I his wild calumnies, and state what was doing fur the poor by those who were most interested in their welfare. (Cheering.) He begged to tell hon. members, that they had no right to come down there to utter such statements as they had made that evening. When the noble lord the member for Bath talked of Lord Lucan's conduct at Castlebar, was that noble lord aware that Lord Lucas had positively contradicted all that was stated concerning him, and that he had kept open the poor-houses at Cutlebar for three successive months, en tirely at his own expense? (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Osborne) was not there to say that cases of neglect might not have occurred ; he was fee from defending the conduct of all Vie Irish landlords ; but this he must say, that neglect was the exception, and not the rule, and that if their conduct was blameable, it was conduct which the British legislation had to answer for, for they had legislated for Ireland as they would legislate for an English colony—(hear,bear)—at.d if they had legislated in a different spirit, they would not have had the state of things in Ireland which existed now. He saw the hon. member for Paisley (Mr. Beetle) laugh. The hon. member was always attacking the Irish landlords in private, but he hoped he would soon see reuon to change his views. Mr. HASTIE hoped he should never say in pri. vats what he was afraid to say in public, nor had he stated anything in private or in public which was not made universally well known by the official state ment' laid before that house. The Irish landlords had grossly neglected their duty. (Hear, hear.) That wee a tact fully confirmed by the evidence before them; he had stated it in private, and no doubt in the hearing of the hon. member who referred to his remark, and he thanked the hon. member for giving him an opportunity of repeating his opinion before that house end the rouutry. (Cheers) When the Irish landlords saw the famine coming, what did they do? Nothing but sit down and howl for English money. (Loud laughter and cheering.) What ought they to have done ? It was their duty to have ascertained the quantity of grain in every parish—to have made returns to the government and to that house, and to have taken every means in their power to supply the deficiency. (Hear.) That was the difference between what they had done, and what they ought to have done, and certainly he (Mr. Mastic) would not acquit them of ?dame. Sir D. 0. J. NORREYS said that as Sir William Beecher had been pointedly alluded to that evening, it was but right for him to say that that hon. baronet had only a few days since received the thanks of the relief committees of his dis trict for his conduct during the present crisis. (Hear, hear.) This was a feet which spoke for itself, and be left it to the house to contrast it with the accusations which were made against him. With regard to the more general charges ad vanced by the hon. member for Marylebone, he must be pardoned for saying that he thought that hon. member was pandering to a very vicious feeling, which seemed to be very general in this country. The hon. member had laboured herd to make out a case. Had he succeeded ? There were no less than 136 unions in Ireland, and' he hat cited the cases of four of them without even stopping to ask what was done in all the rest. (Hear.) As far as he (Sir 1). Norreys) was aware, the landlords were doing all that could be ex pected of them in the present crisis, paralysed as they were by the utter state of panic into which they had been thrown. He believed also, that the landlords had been as great sufferers as the tenants ; and he could not help adding, though he was not a repealer, that much of what had been charged against them was the fruirs of the selfish legislation of a British parliament. (Cheers.) Sir H. W. BARRON mooed in all that had been said by the last speaker. In Waterford and Kilkenny, the counties with which he was most intimately connected, the landlords had done all they could. They had made the very calcula tions suggested by the hon. member for Paisley. It was disgraceful to hear these mendacious charges made against them ; and he must say, with reference to the hon. member for Marylebone, that he thought he had acted must uncan didly in reading a document as a resolution paved in Palace-yard by Irish landlords without stating that it was nothing more than a report from a Sunday paper called the Jam Hull, a paper which had no reporter present, and which had sent out this improper, indecent, and mendacious account, obtained from God knew where, as if it were a vera cioua statement. The hon. baronet should Lave told the house that his information was gleaned from an ob scure Sunday print, which had no reporter pre sent, and probably got its information second-hand. There was a systematic attempt going on to pat down the Irish landlords, an attempt which he was disposed to regard as a low, cunning, manteuvre of the London capitalists, in order to reduce the market value of Irish land, and thus secure it at a cheap rate. (A laugh.) The attempt was sided by certain portions of the press here, representing what was called the money interest. The hon. baronet vindicated the Earl of Lucan from the aspersions which had been cast upon him, and characterised has lordship as a most benevolent man, who, so far from not having paid his rates, had, by ideation out of his own pocket alone, saved the inmates of the union house from starving. Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the house would not delay the going into committ e on this urgent measure by desultory discussion. (Hear.) For himself he felt bound to say very few words in reference to what had fallen from the hon. baronet. The hon. baronet had thought proper to make a most unfounded attack upon members of a constituency very dear to him, the constituency of the City of London. The hon. baronet charged them with a low and cunning conspiracy to get hold of Irish estates at a cheap rate. He begged to remind the honourable baronet ' of a circumstance —About a month ago, several gentle. men, intimately connected with the money interests of Lon don, but having no connexion with Ireland, haring no pro perty there, and, in all probability desiring to have none— (a laugh)—met for the purpose of raising a subscription for Ireland ; at which meeting several of those gentlemen con tributed 1,0001. each towards the object. (Hear, hear.) Not content with doing this, and occupied as they were all the morning till four o'clock, they formed a committee and met every day at four o'clock for the purpose of further forward ing their generous purpose, by receiving subscriptions, con ducting correspondence, and taking measures to transmit , the funds ranted in the manner calculated to be most useful to the Irish people. (Hear, hear.) As to the Imperial Etch , quer, he would beg to remind the hon. baronet that within the last week not less than a million sterling had been sent over to relieve the immediate distresses of Ireland. He believed, in a word, he might say that if, unhappily, on the one hand, the calamity under which Ireland was suffei ing was unprecedented, the sympathy, the cordial and prac tical sympathy extended to her by England was equally un precedented. (Hear, hear.) Mr. V. STEWART thought that the Irish landlords were fully entitled to claim the attention of the house when they sought to repel the calumnious aspersions cast upon them. Mr. 8. CRAWFORD would not for an instant think of asking aid from England, if he did not believe that Ireland could and would repay the advances made to her. For his own part he should be ready to have his property taxed to the Int farthing for this purpose, and he considered that the property of every landlord in Ireland ought to be strictly taxed for the same object, and rigorous measures adopted, where necessary, for enforcing the prompt payment of the amount assessed upon each landlord. (Hear, hear.) He regarded the relation of landlord and tenant in Ireland as being at the root of all this evil and misery—(hear)— and when Irish landlords charged the British parliament with occasioning the mischief by bad legislation, he always felt that the bad legislation had been in the undie favour which had been shown to the Irish landlords at the impetus of the people. (Hear, hear.) The property en joyed by these landlords was the remit of confiscation, and every sort of assistance had been given them by the parlia ment for the recovery of their rents. It was not too much, then, to require that they should do ordinary justice to the people—(hear, hear)--and it was only in acknowledging their past mismanagement and promising amendment fur the future that they could fairly reek aid from England. (Hear,bear.) Alter a short further discussion, the house went into com mittee. On clause Id being proposed, Col. CONOLLY said he should decidedly object to rates being made on the union at large, and not on the electoral division. Mr. F. FRENCH thought it would be best in the present emergency to leave the matter entirely in the hands of the government. Mr. ROSS was not inclined at the present juncture to tie up the hands of government, but begged to protest against his assent to a temporary measure being drawn into a pre cedent for permanent legislation. Nothing, in Lis opinion, (meld he more injurious than perm mostly to merge the elec toral division. it Ireland inn unions. Mr. WILLIAMS wished that method to be alopted which should most firmly fix the landlords of Ireland with their share of the burthen. (Hear, hear.) He thought that justice to the overtaxed people of this country required that every precaution should be token. Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN mid that the clause did not involve the question of unions or electoral divisions, but wear to vest the whole matter in the lord-lieutenant. (Hear.) Ile did not wish to are Intel% power veded in the lord lieutenant, or in the commissioners appointed by him. He should, therefore, mane that thy. clause he expunged. Mr. al.o' FE It It ALL consented t the chum as a ;World in fur the emergener . as a permanent mewure he thought the I power gives too area'. S.r 1). NORREYS supported the clause. tilt J . GRAHAM said he hat hi . herto alstain sl from taking part in this debate, beemise he thought it important that no time which could be snared should be wasted In die- If THE EXPRESS. TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 9, 1847. musks. (Hear, bear.) But he hit that thirpoiox they were ' then discussing, both on its own account, and with reference to its Incidental bearing on permanent legislation, was cute of very great importance indeed. (Hear, hear.) He would observe that the origituil Irish Poor-law imderwent s very material change in 1843, when with the concurrence of a inajo rityof Irish memhs rs, and ailecided majority of that boos., ne introduced into it r'principle similsr to, if not identical with. the law of settlement in England. It was then provided that a peron who had not lived eighteen months within an electoral district as tenant, or slept within it the greater por , tion of a year, should not be entitled to relief Prim the divi sion, but when claiming relief without these requisites, should be relieved at the expense of the union. He wan of opinion that in deciding on this temporary measure it should he ki pt quite distinct from permanent legislation, and there fore tie should reserve fur future discussion his opinion u t• whether the relief of the ahle-bodiei in work houses should fall ou the electoral divisions, or on the unions. This clause, which was of a temporary nature, did not give power either to the poor-law coinmissioners or to the guardians, but to a temporary relief commission sitting in Dublin, appointed by the lord-lieutenant, and to relief committees in each electoral division. They must consider the present circurnstani es of Ireland. Ile teared that with all the assistance thy could possitile give, the present mea sure would be apprt esive on the rote-payee. Five hur.dred and eighty thousand men were now employed on the public works, wnoen legitimate emplovmetit was the tilling of the soil. Seed time wet approaching, and it was most im portant that these men should return to their legitimate labour within ten weeks. The present m asure had that object in view, and, therefore, tartlet* he heard strung reasons to the conte try, he thou d give it his support, and resist the amendment of the hon. member our North Northampton shire. (Hear, hear.) Mr. SHAW suggested that, under present circumstances his hon. friend should withdraw his amendment. (Hear, hear.) As a ix naanent fueeeore he should oppose the sub stitution of 111110 , 111 for elect ral divisions. ...... Mr. LABOUCHKRE expressed his hope that nothing would be done unnetaesitrily to protract the discussion. A short discussion followe.l, in the course of which Mr. Smith O'Briee, Mr. D Browne, and Sir W. Verner spoke in favour of the amendment, and Mr. B , :lew, though agree ing in principle with Mr. Stafford O'Brien, stated that, fer the reasons given by minister., he should vote for the claute; when Sir It. Ferguson, who warned government against spreading the rate for these advances over the unions at large, urged upon the hon. member tot Northamptonshire to withdraw his amendment ; which he consented to do, urn the understanding that he and those who agreed with him on the subject should nut be consider•d as pledged to the principle of the clause in any general measure that might be hereafter brought forward. Lord J. Manners, Mr. Osborne, and Mr. Gregory subsequently expressed their opinions that the effect of throwing the rate over the union at large would be to stop the contributiobs of the landlords. The clause was then agreed to, as were climate. 13 and 15. ' On Clause 16, which provide for the repayment of loans, Mr. HAMILTON observed that when he waited upon the noble lord ; t the head et the government, as one of a depu tation, he stated that the Irish landlords were desirous of repaying whatever advances might be made, and he was now anxious that the most stringent measures for the due repay ment of the money should he provided. There was every disposition on the part of the Irish people to pay whenever they had the ability to do so. He would suggest that word. should be introduced giving to the relief commissioners of the government the power of requiring the repayment of the advances by instalments. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it would be se -c-asary, in another bill, to provide for the re payment ot• the advances, and to take the necessary powers for that purpose. As to the present bill, it was proposed that a rate should be levied en presentment upon the rate-payers when they were able to pay, and that it should be made by those who had the distribution of the fund. If the subscrip tions should be sufficient the rate would be unnecessary, if not it would be resorted to. . . cedar of the Exchequer was asking the house to grant money for the relief of Ireland, and It could not be doubted that he had not made a calculation tithe expense, or, it he had, it was so large that he would not tell It. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the hon. gentleman was mistaken as to the purport of the clause, and it he had waited till the chutes were regularly brought i up he would have saved himself the asking of this quer. tion and two speeches. lie (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) woeM bring up a clause which limited advances tram the Consolidated Fund to 300,00 W., which has been voted three or four days ago. In the second clause which he should bring up power would be given to the commissioners of the treasury to make grants from time to time, which would be voted by the house in committee of supply, and they would sot be pledged to any sum beyond that which was comprised in each vote, but the clause gave ag, neral power to grant what was from time to time voted. To 30,0001. the house was pledged, and nothing more, hut the whole SUM required for the year he was not p repared to state to-night,although he would do so on this day fortnight. Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN (who was very indistinctly heard) was understood to say that he should like to know where was to be the end of this unproductive expenditure. They were going on from week to work, and month to month, spending enormous sums without any reproductive result. the substitute provided by this bill was not sufficient to pro ride for one-third of the people. How were the 500,000 labourers who were taken off the roads to be provided for? Although the noble lord, the member for Lynn, said he could find work for 100,000 ; he did not see where was to be the end of tire expenditure. After the harvest, unless capital was applied to assist the resources of the country, and unproductive expenditure was removed, the ex. pent,c would be greater next year, and there would be no end to the drain on toe resources of the country and Ireland, for the drain was as great on Ireland as on England. He again asked what prospect tine: was of a termination of thi. ex penditure ? Mr. F. FRENCH said that with reference to the expen diture which was required from both countries, each of them would feel an interest in • satisfactory answer being given to the question of the bun member for Bath ; but he could not conceive that the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought not to be in a position to answer. He might be able to 'peak of what he ex pected for the next six weeks ; but, in order to attach any value to an answer from the right hon. gentle man before he could arrive at any satisfactory conclusion, it would be necessary to consider all the effect of all the different bids, regard bring had to the proportion of the population that could be employed by the landlords under the Improvement Bill, and consideration being given to the other measures for the reclamation of waste lands, emigra tion, and the sale of estates. Mr. M. O'FERRALL said that, as loans were to be granted on the security of the rates, and as it took two months to make and collect them, it would be desirable to give greater facility in striking the nitre and getting them paid, and also to enable the collectors to call on the landlord to p.iy his proportion first, and not the lenant. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Lord CLEMENTS, as an honest man, could not sit there and hear the poverty of Ireland pledged for the repayment of these debts. It was physically impossible for them to pay. He was willing to do his part as a landlord, but he would tell them, if this money was to be repaid the government must provide the means for paying it. (Much laughter.) He did not mean they must give them the money to pay with ; hut what he asked for was legislative means. (Hear.) He heard the landlords abused on one side and defended on the other. He looked with as utter contempt upon the abuse as upon the—(a laugh t—he begged pardon for saying so, an upon the means taken to defend them. (Hear.) If go verement were desirous that these advances 'Mould be repaid, and the property of Ireland, instead of being • burden on England, should he made answerable far its debts, the legis lature must put the landlords in e position in which they would have power over their own property. (Cheers.) Mr. ROEBUCK said it was important to call upon the government to de .1 with the House of Commons in this case in the way in which the House of Commons was accustomed to be dealt with. The two great objects of the bill were not yet reached. They had decided upon the way in which the relief should be granted, but not what the relief should be. He wished to put an explicit question to the Chancellor of the Exch.:gee r. By the 14th clause of this bill it was pro vided that temporary advances should be made out of the growing produce of the consolidated fund of any sum °retains of mosey by way of imprest, to be applied by way of loan. By a resolution of the house, passed some days since, 300,0001, was to be advanced. By the 17th clause, grants were to be made in aid of rates and contributions. He wanted to know if it was in the recollection of any member of the house—he did not care if he was the oldest in experience —that any Chancellor of the Exchequer ever came down to the house on any great occasion and demanded mouev without explaining that at lust he had 'made a rough esti mate of the RIM he required, and the mode of raising the money so demanded. This was a meat important question. The Chancellor of the Exchequer knew that if he was to say that he was about to raise it by an increase of the Income- tax that he would raise a flame from one end of the kingdom to the other; not, perhaps, in Ireland, where it was not paid—(" hear," and laughter}—but it would in England and Scotland. If the money was to be raised by loan, would it not have a most important effect ? He wanted to know how it was to be done. In justice to the people of England they ought to know. It should nut be lent to Ireland, for it would not be paid. lie had a right to demand what the calculation was. Some calculation must have been made. The Chancellor of the Exchequer could not dare to come down to the house with such a proposal without it. He wanted to know what was the rough calculation ; what was the sum he expected to require for the present exigency? It was a fair guration, and he expected an explicit answer; he demanded it in the name of the people of England. He would not wait for the budget to hear that which ought to have been told keg ago. He had been astonished—he might say astounded at the patience of the bon. member for Montrose (Laughter.) That hon. member had put this question in so mild a form that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that he would tell him some day or other. He (Mr. Roebuck) wished that he would show some of the vigour of his earlier days, and force the Chancellor of the Exchequer to tell that which he was bound as • member of the government to do. He (Mr. Roebuck) wished that the right hon. gentleman should nut merely enjoy the honour of being Chancellor of the Exchequer, but that he should be bound by some of the obligations of the office. Let him meet the question and the difficulty fairly, and as was his deny—let him say these are the ditli culties and these the means by which it is proposed to meet' them and to ream the money. It was for the house then, if they did not agree with him, to say so ; but it was not lair to go on with the petty detail of this bill till that great ques tion was settled. No one had been able to get at what the I expense of this measure would b, to Engird. He de mended an answer to this question. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the hon. gentleman had put the question to hint in • very I pointed way, as if he had declined or refused to answer him ; but the hon. gentleman had not before put the ques tion in any way. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had never shrunk from it, and he did not think there was any part of his conduct which called for such a mode of putting the question. It was perfectly true that such a question had been put to his noble friend at the head of the government, and he had given the only answer which he thought he was justified in giving. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did nut think he was justified in stating to night that which would form part of the statement he should have to make a fortnight hence with regard to the MUM re- quired for the year, and the mode of providing them. He could state what had been the expenses up to the present time. The sum advanced since September to the end of January was 2,000,0001. The rams presented by grand jury presentments, from Ist January, 1546, war 120,8001.; and the presentments made from the Ist September were 1,372,0001., of which 476,0001. had been sanctioned by the treasury. The presentment session, in various parte of Ire land, under 9th Vic., had presented 6,127,0001. to be levied in Ireland. The expenditure which had been sanctioned by the treasury was 2,600,0001. a portion of which had been expended, amounting to 2,000,0001. from September up to the end of January. What would be necessary between this time and next August it was impossible to say. In the month of January 1,000 000/. had been expended, but the sum required would bar reduced in the eprin , when a consi derable portion of labour would be absorbed by field culti vation, and when another system was auberituted for the Labour Rate Act; and the same amount of money would go much further. It was no doubt necessary that there should be ready 300,0001. from the consolidated fund, and it was proposed that other soon shoull be from time to time issued, by grants from parliament, to be voted in Committee of Supply ; but they would never be pledged to more than the 300,0001. to which they were now pledged by this bill, and no more would he taken except by vote in supply. On this day fortnight it would be necesery for him to elate what he expected to have to provide for the expenditure of the year, and the mode in which it au to be raised. Mr. ROEBUCK assured the right hon. gentleman that there was nothing unusual in his mode of putting his question, nor did he mean to do so in an I offensive mann-r. He had asked what would be the probable expenditure under this bill, and he 'as answered by a statement of the expenditure under another—doe l're. sentment bill. It was said by the right hon. gentleman that under this bill the sum was limited to 300,000/. ; but in the 17th clause it was stated that the conunesioners of the trea sury might issue from time to time out of the consolidated fund any sum or sums of money to be granted under regula tions and conditions as they thought fit. No definite sum was named. The right hon. gentiernan could not say he had given an answer to his (Mr. Roebuck's) cr teatime. He wanted to know if he hail made a calculation of the expen diture necessary for maintaining Ireland 11l long as this hill was in operation. He could not say it was only 300 0001., and the people of England would not be satisfied with thia answer—a mere technical reply. The house was rhea to vete money in the dark ; they did nut kiery how much they would he rolled on to grant under this hill lie he ped that members who represented the people would require an answer, and he felt himself bound to demand it. The Chan commissioners of the treasury were only to grant loans if they saw fit. Lord CLEMENTS thought there should be greater facility Riven to striking the rate. Mr. E. DENISON said that as the house was on the question of voting money under this bill, he thought it a proper opportunity to Pay that there was another question which had excited great attention. Reference had been made to the question of rating, and it was desirable to know what was the intention of the government with regard to the poor-law bill for Ireland. He bed woudered at the silence maintained on this subject in the house. Much had been said both within and without the house of the inten tions of certain parties with reference to that bill. If he rightly understood the sentiments of the English and Scotch members, they had acquiesced in the measures of the government on the distinct understanding that there should be an efficient poor-law for Ire land ; and the Irish members acquiesced in them, because they met the exigences of the moment, and with the understanding that the Poor-law Bill, as proposed by the government, could not pan in its present shape, and must be strongly resisted. Ile questioned if the Poor-law Bill, now en the table, was substantially supported by the government, and would be carried into effect. They had heard to-night things that looked ominous for that bill. He ' wished to know the intentions of the government on this subject before the money was voted. Sir G. GREY thou lot that the hon. gentleman had asked a very extraordinary question. That bill was ordered to be brought in by his noble friend at the head of the govern ment, by the Secretary for Ireland, and himself. It had passed the second reading, and stood fur committee for an early day, and the government meant to go on with it, Till the lion. gentleman asked this question he did not know that there was any notion to the contr .ry. Mr. SHAW wished to ask the hon member for Bath what he really meant ? (Laughter.) What d:d he desire ? The right hon. gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, stated that it was impossible to tell him exactly the sum re- quirwl under these bills. The landlords of Ireland had voted 6,000,0001. Was that doing nothing ? In his barony they had voted more than the fee-simple. Did the hon. member fir Bath desire the people of Ireland to starve ? The land lords paid what they could, and as much a, the extent of their property would bear. Asfia as their inclination was concerned they did not shrink from liability. Did the hon. member wish the government to let the Irish people starve ! This was an awful national calamity, and should he dealt with nationally. Let the landlords be as bad as they might, was that a reason for letting the people starve. The only object of the hon. member must he to impede this measure by every means in his power. Were the Irish people to die ? It came to that! While they were talking there, they were starving. (Hear, hear.) He was unwilling to rise and say a word, because the government was doing its duty to meet this crying evil. Did not the hon. member believe, that in the remote districtsof Ireland, the people were dying by thousands? The landlords did all that they could; they bad pledged their whole property. If the p , o. ple were not to starve let them measures go on—for while they were disputing de people were starving. Mr. ROEBUCK said the right hon. gentleiran was a judge, and he said that he would put one question to him, whereas, he had put three, and one of them with an inuendo. As a judge he ought not so put it. Was it honest ?__ Mr. SHAW : Perfectly. Mr. ROEBUCK: Was that the way the right hon. gen tleman acted as a judge ? (Oh, oh.) Was that the proper way to put a question ? He wanted the government to provide efficient food for the people of Ireland to prevent their starving, but in so doing to pledge all the property of Ireland for the repayment of the debt; and when the right honourable gentleman talked of common prudence, he would say, that the Irish gentlemen showed more than common prudence in their presentments. They were always told that this was an uncommon occasion and must be met by uncommon means. The gentlemen of Ireland had so mat it. They had pr, Dented 6,000,0001., which they had borrowed of us. They had heard what was the expense of one month, and the people of England knew It; and he was standing there on behalf of the honest artisans of England against the landlords of Ireland. He vas not opposing a generous provision for the Irish poor. He wished it. He agreed with the hon. mem ber for Melton, that there had been ominous statements in that house as regarded the Irish poor. He wished for a provision for the Irish poor hereafter. He would mortgage Ireland for iu poor, and care nothing about the landlords. He had a right to look to the poor of that country and of our own, fir from our hard earnings would these sums be 1, rived, and they should go only to the Irish poor. Every English member in that house was prepare d to vote this money tur the Irish poor, but not for the land lords. The right hon. gentleman esid this was a national calamity, and let it be dealt with by a national tax ; but that would not suit him (Mr. Roebuck), nor would it suit the Irish people. He pledged himself that this session should not pass without an endeavour to obtain a stringent poor-law for Ireland, which was most distasteful to the landlords. It was an insult to him to say he wanted the Irish people to starve. He wanted no such thing • ho wan'ell a generous subsistence for them, nod he would pledge all the property of the landlords for the re payment of the money provided for the pour whom they had so shametully neglected in their wasteful and reckless Career. Mr. BELLEW thought the only one of these meas ures which would du go* l was the bill for allowing the sale of encumbered estates. . Mr. HUME regretted the angry tone which had been adopted on the present occasion. The bon. member for Bath had only asked a common question when money was abet to be voted, and it was a very proper qui stion; to inquire if the government had made up their minds as to what extent the money required by this bill would go; whe ther there was any means of stopping the evil which +rasping on. He thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer gave as distinct an anew, ras he could. At pt cunt, only 300,0001. was granted, and, when mere was wanted, they must come to that house. It would be more serious if the 300,0001. was intended only for one month. It appeared, however, that the government were going on without having made up their mind. WI to what steps shoald be taken to check the casting evil; and he thought the honourable and learned member for Bath deserved thanks, rather than blame, for having put the question he did. It iipp,ared to him that her Majesty's government had hut little reflected upon the state to which they were bringing this country, the pesple of which were already almost de stroyed by the preroure of heavy taxation. Lord J. MANNERS was desirous that Irish members would not fell to discriminate between the tone and manner of the dal. rent English members who addrewed the house on Irish difILITM. He could assure them that the language u-eel by the hon. and learned member for Bath received no sort of unction from English members sitting on his (Lord J. Manner.') lode of the house, and he thought it could not hot have been observed that all the support which the hon. and learned gent* etwitt received came from gentlemen professing the same political print les as himself, and sitting on his aide of the house. He (Lord J. Manners) had listened with the utmost attention to the multitudinous spec ches which the hon. and learned member had addressed to the house on this question, and he was at a lam to discover what measure of relief the hon. and loomed member would propose for the distress which pro vaied in Ireland. (Hier.) One proposition certainly had lt en extrocted from him, namely, the mort gage of all the lends of Ireland to the state; but, with all due re.p et to the hon. and learned gentleman, he did not think the destitute per of Ireland would derive much hene- fit from such a eonr.e of legislation; and if that was the only measure t:.e Lon. end learned marcher had to propose, in plane of the pia iorneioed by th, government and taut sub mitted to the euip.i.leration of the house by hi. noble friend the menewr tor Lv no, he did not think the English people would int under the banners of the hon. and learned member fn. B nth. t Hear, hear.) He believed the people of England were ready and willing to sequence in a vote of pub- , lic money by way ci temporary relief to the population of Ireland; and that, though they would take care that for the future Irish property should perform its duties, they ' would not now hesitate until every tittle of past blame was raked up, while the Irish people, who had done no wrong, were starving. (Hear, bear.) Such, he believed, were the feelings of the English people at the present moment, and hr hoped Irish members would not suppose that the hots and learned member for Bath represented truly and faithfully the sentiments of the great mass of the people of England. (Hear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK remarked that the noble lord forgot that a large section on the noble lord's aide of the house held opinions similar to those he (Mr. Roebuck) had advaneed. Similar sentiments had been expressed by hon. gentlemen sitting higher on the • tme bench with the noble lord. Dr. BOWRING said that be was quite willing to forget the past conduct of the Irish landowners, but he could not forget that the house was now legislating for the future. It had been confessed (and the coefession was an instance of the honesty of many Irish landlords) that it was a delusion to suppose, that, of the grants which were to be made under this bill, a great portion would never he repaid. Again, it was stated by Irish members that the money so granted would leave Ireland still suffering and unrelieved. These were points which English members were hound to consider in all their gravity. He for one was willing to deal liberally towards Ireland in her present distress ; lint he had • right to ask whether these great sacrifices would accomplish the object in view ? Why did the government not at once meet the great question of the Irish church, and legislate upon it according to the views and seutirneuts of the majority of the Irish people ? If not, he could not feel surprised at the desire manifested for Repeal, upon which the feeling in England was increasing daily. Sir C. NAPIER observed, that whether the landlords of Ireland had or hod not done their duty, he did not pretend to say ; and, more than that, he thought that many gentlemen who were so violent against the landlords of Ireland, knew just as much about them as he (Sir C. Napier) did. (Laughter.) Of this he was quite satisfied, that if they had not done their duty, the government were to blame for not having forced them to it long before the existing calamity appeared. (Hear, hear.) Had the English proprietors who had large estates in Ireland done their duty ? He would like to see those gentlemen and noblemen who passaged enormous property in Ire land sacrifice their own pleasures, and instead of living abroad in luxury and comfort, go and live upon their estates during the existing distress, and in person administer to the wants of the suffering and starving people in Ireland. It was not enough to tell him that their agents were doing all in their power, and he maintained that the presence of such men as the Duke of Devonshire, the Marquis of Lansdowne, and other large landed proprie tors upon their estates in Ireland, would do much to relieve the people. However, wit - n two millions of men, women, and children were actually starving, he, as a Christian, held that the imperial legislature was bound I. do all in its power to mitigate the evils, and he was ready to give his consent to every assistance possible being afforded. (Hear. ) Lied CLEMENTS repeated that he had not the slightest doubt of the inclination of the Irish people to repay any debt they might incur, but thought, besides these greats, the go vernment ought to come forward with measures more cal• misted to develope the capabilities of that country. Mr. BERNAL expressed his regret that the hon. and gallant member for Marylebone (Sir C. Napier) should have thought it necessary to express sentiments calculated to excite odium and animadversion upon the noblemen and gentlemen usually designated absentee proprietors. He must take leave to Pay that many of them expended the whole income arising from their estates for the benefit and advantage of their tenants, and one gentleman, whose name he had not liberty to mention, did not draw one-twentieth of his annual rental of 30,000!. He hoped the house would now proceed with this bill, without further charges on absentees or more recri mination. (Hear, hear.) Sir C. NA PIER repeated his former opinion that it would be better fur Ireland if such proprietors av the Duke of Devonshire, the Marquis of Lansdowne, and others, were at the present juncture resident upon their Irish estates. Mr. ROSS (Belfast) rose simply to thank the noble lord, the member for Newark, (Lord J. Manners) for the defence he had offered for English members, and to express a hope that without any more attacks on Irish landlords it would be remembered that the people were starving, and that the of the bill should not be further delayed. Pr° 4l7:lause (16th) was then, after a few words from Mr. P. SCROPE and Mr. LABOUCHERE, agreed to, as were also clauses 17 and 18 without any discussion. Clause 19, after a few words from Mr. Shaw (who suet ;Ta verbal amendment), Mr. F. French, Mr. J. oten, and Mr. Milne., was agreed to, as were clauses 20 and 21. On the latter clause being put, Mr. HUME wilted if government had made up their minds as to the period when the repayment of the advances should be made . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was impossible to fix soy definite period. Sir R. FERGUSON asked if there would be any objection to introduce a clause empowering the guardians of any union to borrow small sums of their treasurer or hanker ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the guardians had already power to borrow, but no power to pay interest. He thought the power suggested not an un &arable one ; but it might be considered on the bringing up of the report. Mr. E. DENISON moved an addition to the clause of which he had given notice, " That in no case shall the sum so advanced by the commissioners of her Majesty's Treasury exceed the sum raised by rate or voluntary contribution within the union or electoral division." It was important to cherish a epirit of co-operation amongst the owners and occupiers of land; and this proviso would have the desired effect. He regretted that, amidst all the statements that had been made with reference to Irish distress, no general estimate had been given of the amount of the whole circle of Irish produce. lie understood that one-half the land in Ireland was grazing land : this was borne out by a letter addressed by Captain Markham to Mr. Trevelyan, of the Gth of October lost ; and this was a most important fact to consider in entertaining the question of a poor-law for Ireland. lie was most anxious that uncon ditional grants of money should net be made ; and if the statement of the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer was correct, that there were large districts in Ireland which could not be expected to meet the call upon them in the form of a rate, how could they give the required security for any advance that might be made ? Mr. LABOUCHERE reminded the house that this was a temporary measure, having for its object to relieve the people from destitution. Admitting the excellence of the general rule laid down by the hon. member who had just spoken, the government claimed the right of exercising a discretionary power in such a measure as the one now before the house. In many cues they had every right to expect that local means of meeting the distress would be forthcom ing; and it was but fair to calculate that such means would supply half the required relief. But, remembering that there were large districts of the country where the people were densely congregated together, and were rapidly dying off from famine and disease, how could the legislature contem plate the collection of rotes in such districts, where the inha bitants were almost w holly of the pa.reet class ? The dis cretion now asked would tie a great relief to the Irish govern ment, and he hoped the house would not fetter the hands of the executive in the way proposed by his hon. fiend. After a few words from Mr. GRAINGER, Mr. V. SMITH expressed his intention of supporting the amendment, if it were pressed to a division. Ihe people of England wereanxious to know where was to be the end of this sy..tem of relief. If it was necessary now, would it not be equally necessary when the permanent poor.law was enacted ? Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that the amendment must have been conceived in utter ignorance of the state of Ire land. Government had only one alternative, either to sanction advances of money in the way proposed, or to cast off the Irish people to perish. (Hear.) Mr. E. DENISON said, that as government appeared to think the discretionary power now sought was essential to the success of the measure, and as he had no wish to incur the responsibility of rendering the bill inoperative, or causing it to operate injuriously, he should prefer to withdraw his amendment. . . . The amendment was withdrawn accordingly, and the clause agreed to as it stood. Some additional dawn haring been agreed to, the house resumed, and the sport was ordered to be brought up to morrow. BREWING FROM SUGAR BILL. On the motion for going into committee on the bill, Mr. W. MILES said he wished to make • few oteerva tions on this bill, and on the Distilling fiom Sugar Bill. With respect to the bill immediately under dieewaion he would assume 1801bs . as the equivalent of a quarter of ;ult. Then, taking the price of good malting barley at from 325. to 405., and 'dewing 21.. fur all the charges of malting, it would give a price of ii6s. and 64.. If he took the price at 66.., the relative price of sugar, if it was to come as an antagooi.t against malt, must be so low as 31s. Ild., which was not likely to be the case. Taking the price of malt at 61s, the relative value of sugar must be 395. 9d. But, from the experiments of theexcise authorities, he found that when sugar was 47.. 3d., it could only enter into competition with malt when the price of malt was 765., so that there was na CALM for apprehension on the part of the agriculturists with re.pect to the use of sugar in breweries. But it was different with respect to the use of sugar in dis tilleries, both as regarded the agriculturists and the colonies. In the first plat.., it was bringing a manufactured product against • British raw article. In the next place, what would he its effect in respect to the , act of last session ? It appeared that three kind. of sugar had been used in the experiments made by the excise— Jamaica sugar which cost 47..0d. per cask, Mauritius which cost 48a., and Cuba sugar which cost 49.. The Cuba sugar paid but 7e. more duty than the Jamaica, and its cost was only 24. more, so that it was evident it would enter is com petition with the Jamaica sugar in the British market. But its relative value in distilling was 3j more than Jamaica sugar, so that it must entirely supenede the we of colonial sugar, and thus slave-grown sugar must have ahnued complete posseasion of the home market. What he complained of was, that they were proceeding in the dark. It having been determined that the corn-duties should be abolished in 1849, and that the sugar duties should be equalised in 1861, they were now asked to pass • meager° which must produce a similar elkct on the colonies and the British producer. He regretted that the measure had not been made temporary. The expeiiinent was a fearful one and, though all inquiry had been refused there, he hoped the colonists and the agriculturists would have fair play in the House of Lords. He should not divide against the measure. . . . W-a. Mr. JAMES was opposed to th• policy of restricting the owners of colonial property in the disposal of their produce, in the manner most beneficial to themselves and to the con sumer. The rich man was at present allowed to brow his nwn beer from linear ; but the poor man WWI prevented by exc.wc re,iulations from ob taining a similar advantage. 1: was well known that • . very interior quJiq ofsealt; when mixed with sugar, would produce a more wholesome and palatable beverage than the best malt without sugar. The British colonies were now called upon to compete with foreign nations under the most disadvantageous circumstances. As regnrde4 their competi tion with British produa rs, to the differential duty of 6d, must still he added In for coat of freight, insurance, leak. age, and dock charges. Ile trusted that her Majesty's go. vertimcnt would honestly carry out their own principle' of free-trade, no repented the colonies. lie admitted that the present inenoure nu* a considerable step in the right di. rection. Mr. FRENCH called upon the colonial interest to unite with the agricultural in endeavouring to regain protection_ the good old system 011 which the country had so long flourished. Mr. Al. MI LNES, on behalf of his constituents, requested the Chancellor of the Exchequer to extend the provisions of the bill, so as to include the use of fresh liquorice juice, (Laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declined to accede, observing that, though liquorice might be very agree.thle in itself, it would have a very deleterious effect on beer. The house then went into committee on the bill. Mr. NEWDEGATE agreed with his hon. friend the member for Somerset, and sal the party with whom he 4414 had determined not to oppose the locum, he would not obstruct its progress. He, however, protested splint the bdl being considered permanent. After a few words from Sir W. CLAY, ThTliarq uis of G ItANBY said he h'opod the bill would not he made permanent, because it might operate prejudi. cially to the colonial and agricultural interests. If the object of the bill w is to increase the consumption of malt, it would not answer the purpose for which it was intended, so he un derstood its sole object was to reduce the quantity of barley consumed, ------, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said test he had stated when the price of barley 11&11 very high and Tlis price of sugar reasonable, the latter would come into use end malt not he KI much consumed. The elatubet were then agreed to. Before the house returned, Mr. T. BARING observes that he could not allow the ball* paw this stage without a comment upon the incotthisteney of our legislature last year and this year. Last year all our object was to reduce the price of sugar for the consumer ; now our object seemed to be to raise the price fit the purposes of the dealer. The measure was introduced under false pretences. It never was, and never would be, a measure of relief to the corn consumers, and as fur the cqlottial interest, he very much doubted whether a few years hence they would deems this bill a immure of relief fur themselves. (War, beer y from the opposition.) The Chairman then left the chair, and the bill was ordered to he real it third time. DISTILLING FROM SUGAR BILL. The botTn;their widths clawed wore agreed to. Report ordered to be brought q to-morrow (thin day). CUSTOMS DUTIES BILL. This bill was read a drat time, and it• committal 'primal to be taken the first thing on Friday, pro vi.led the daft on the Railways (Ireland) Bill, was not adjourned to At day. Lord O. BRNTINCK gave notice that when they welt into committee on this bill, he should move that it ben. (erred to a select committee up stars. The house adjourned at half-past 12 o'clock. PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS. ACCOCNTIS or RiteleiPTlS AND Ex PRNDITURit roe METILOPOLITAN POLICE, superannuation fund, Red polite courts for the year ending Dec. 31, 1846. Including a balance of 49 , 72 51. 13a. 6d. carried from 1445, the totals= received under the head of metropolitan police duripg tV past year was 381,593/. 13s. Bth. ; of this. 216 273!. 4s, tote received from parishes; 96,7601. 12s. 4d. from the Treasury; 10,4111. 18s. 2d. fur special eervicee at various public build inns and dock-yards; 1,9581. 19s. from public companies, private individuals, etc., and 4221. 17s. 6d. from theatres, le. the payments during the year amounted to 326,925/.131 sd, thus divided: salaries, allowanoem, office-rent, and expenses, 8,094!. 10.. 5d.: law charges, 1,70-51. lbs. 3d.: pay, cloth ing and equipment of police force, 281,453/. 17a. 7a. In this is included the ruin of 5,1451. 14s. 9d. salaries of nineteen superintendents. Medical and funeral ex 2,003!. 6e. 10d.; horses and vans, 7,290/. 2s. 6+l. ; police penem station sad section houses, 12,3391. 6g. 4d. ; fuel end light, 9,4522 7s. 10d.; miscellaneous, 4,5861. 4s. 9d. Under the head s( superannuation fund, the receipts were 14,0041. 19s. 6d.; of this 7,8801. 13e. Ild. was contributed from the pay of the police, and 2,4701. 19s. 1 Id. from fines imposed on drunkest persons, and tor assaults. The payments amounted te 7,7831. 14s. 3d. The government stock belonging to them. perannuation fund amounted Dec. 31,1816, to 73,334/. 17s. Id. Under the head of police court.. the expenses during the year were 47,2081. 17a. sd. Of this 33,656/. 7, rid. was magistrates' ant clerks' salaries. One magistrate receiver 12601. per annum. and twenty-two 1000!. each. To meet these expenses 10,6461. 4s. 6d. was received for fees, penal ties, and forfeitures, at the various metropolitan police courts, and 36,4101. 2s. 10d. out of the consolidated fund, according to the act of parliament. An appendix acme paniee this paper, giving the sums charged upon and re ceived from every rateable locality for the purposes of the police during 1846, and a table showing the total number of persona belonging to the police, which are thus divided :- 1 inspecting superintendent, 18 superintendents, 114 inspec tors, 493 serjeants, and 4166 constables ; total force, 4791.-- This paper is dated Jan. 29, 1847. D18711E843 IN IRELAND AND SCOTLAND.-nos following important collection+ of papers have been presented to par liament:-l. Correspondence from July, 1846, to January, 1847, relative to the measures for the relief of the distress in Ireland (Board of Works series). 2. Correspondence, &c., dte. (Commissariat series). 3. Correspondence, &c. relative to measures adopted for the relief of distress in Ireland and Scotland (Fisheries series). 4. Copies of Correspond ence relating to the state of the union workhouses in Ireland. 5. First annual report of the Board of Supemeion for the relief of the poor In Scotland. NATIONAL DENT.-This paper, dated Jan. 6, 1847, gives an account of the receipt and expenditure of 3,578,721!. Is. 3d. in the year ending Jan. 6, 1847, for the reduction of the national debt; by which it appears that 1,177,7871. 9s. Bth was expended in the purchase of coneolid.steit old and sew South Sea and 3 per cent. annuities, 2,460,000!. for exche quer bills, and 9331. I ls. 7d. paid for repayment to unclaimed dividend account. NORTHEISN LIONTROWIES.-This paper gives the 'boned of the receipts and payments for 184.5 on account of 26 light houees. The receipts for duties, &c amounted to 53,5951. 3+. Id., and the parments to 42,06 , 5/. es. 10d. The latter includes the sum of 2,0101. 10s. salaries of officers. The average expenditure on each lighthouse was 5771. This paper is dated Jan. n, 1847. - . EXCHEQUER BILLS purchased by the Bank of England in 1846.—These amounted to 280,291/. Ba. ltd. in the quarter ending April 5, 1846; 2,853,7991. 19s. 3d. in the July TlFter ; 799,3441. 6s, 6d. in the October quarter; sad 727,483 i. lls. 11d. in the quarter ending Jan. 5. 1847. The amount paid off or discharged in the year ending Jae. 5. 1847, was 4,440,9191. 6s. 6d. DRAINAGE ACT.-4 act which appear in the es for loans under this Gazette of the sth imt. L. ul Parish et County a /be Duke of, Malta-we ...' Mrs. L. D. C ; Dutton D. rt. Ostbratth . Alex. "Tenet ' .. Alex. Maclean .. Jot= Graham .. ice....... ~~.... Joe; tlir R. D. EL Ea- 1 W l VOr t trt e Antbray Mar ray Paa&A.Darklera -I. Garlock 47.1 . ..11a7vey — .7 Jos. Johnston ... Robert oallirs. Jane Wadi . Archibald Dos ibm A. J. Kink& John Wilkie Meek @prat Joan Crory hail... Dread Munro John Dsugul Bar Andre. kith May, Bart Muntley G . G Duff John Campbell David Milne James Dundas ~..-~:: uu~.rrr 1. " , a'TMb.,.'.7 1 z. I ~ /lie Marquis cor I AILS. .. 1 R. Robertnott, t Gl W. M. Fleming Gro. A. G. Mir bag ( The Parl at Mr- lie (Fronk the ReT.W. U. Palter 8 7."` - nit= 1 litlLArask. it luipatrielk. Mar tfatlie., part Nes.i lt. Triolty, Wok, t deny, and Pia, I Inantana7, Daveitick Forgden and Maranon.. i KY idioms t. Lel rrf sow, Chlt. Issek awl ... Wear 111114 t . K Dd Coeton AP' • .34rldtou, 11. , I and thryon ilitloriniung,tdeuartoo and lAdry . . Innirktp, Orem* Haman, and = ~ - .... Pu al rl a idoetei3h, Oarntx3c, , turd% rod OraiL.. ("ortuchy Tornadke, I Airhe, kimoloross, Lantrathen, Auclatortuais, I Alyth, Clunk IRentrtw I Frrth Forfar sad k I ' reek . 9 (Matte IA eh. 6.) LANIs in Pone of _ ,» ..... ------ I Eat Arialik •• ' I ii. • Inr ILL Aber- I I Ban i .... s Ale r c E ßL O:w A a zt. :l,l r. Cul romien.y rend onare and s.dr. raatn ,..m. ~...,W 1 11 11A8., 1111111164111,01 g r J. Melt. Craw. Ninuk , J. R. lilrtl~tloeeh .1. R. Miran.. *rower Orkney Old and New Own- Jane D. Berrel3 o ,hit t ". ... 1 ,7 Alex. Runner Month, Contras , ..... Inentertos tro-..1 te.* KlueorAY Perth Han( rkair : 3;;;63l Hadar -- stevrartry at k ?!_ l ' ue Y • / Sir Itt: n'nin;k evening at . ereoby Hall; an.. Gyirn• • Fa ET, enraptured , tertalnimmt. Wit= tw. ,~ paure.—Tllll during the we IN() PEN/01 tOieta —OPFS EVY. -unequAlkd .4 paw., nal kiADANIE I o C MUSICALE ill 11, at her residen-e, ,„,,f0 ~,,,,,‘..,,,.,..., Mei of Madame I Ist will take !dace § I . a N GING ( luxylis.— I, No. 57 for Ladies, nary 11, at half-past GO.. trite No. NI for Ladies, !nary 15. at • ti usrter hero Gtr Na 6.1 for Gentle ate quarter-taint 7 o'clock Ctrs No. 66 for Gent Tebrukry 12, at half-past Terms: Twiire Milli' pa=&Seven Iddllin and full mrtico 101. St. Martin's -lane. gE It M A The following cull espectfillly submitted I. the Public. It is p . ereaftd exertions made to diSculty, aftomparty 'till and of Its diatingusthed P.. support. ENGAGEM Mae. Jenny Lind, 5141 eldoli, Mdlle. Esinani, and and MdUe. Darla Mows; a peat tenor of Italy, .. Sig. Sumer.' ; sig. P. I Douche, of La Scala, hi. cantante Herr Staudiel, it,. arrangements are pending at Paris. That great composer the this country to brute out t In the t• Coup de silii-a , b. The celebrated lir. helm England, and produce all 11 Theatre; the libretto, foul written by M. Scribe. Mira Gordon; Wheat, I lerr Seat It is likewise amounted haring reowered from his t. this theatre • new Opera, .. Robbers" of Sehilkr. Romani'. Osera of "Robe, Royale, haa also been won. Meeditmen Castellon, Sane riaperehL and Fruschint, eta Mdlle. Jenny Lind, •I extends until the midorihertu Director of the Mu Is addition to the above, be produced. and the repe d'aturns of Moran, Ci MIL ho. The strictest alien that an ensemble may he prt arrow orchestra, of the to. bees minted from some of tl. with former mentorious ern The chorus has bees oh, Germany, and England, an former.. A RR.VSGEME. Mdlle. Carlotta Grist, Mdlk ditioe to which an entramme Rosati taloa Seale, at Miian, will make her first appeorano ballet expraely composed and Mdlle. Wauthier. of la sesta Mdlle.rine Montfort, M 41.1% Penny Poetics, and Benin; sequence of the enthuskotic was received last season, hr may be induced In appear fo St. LAM, M. d'Or, M. ' oouriet, N. Paul T•glioni, . musk, Signor lb*ni i prin. Ballet—M. Paul Taglatni. M Souswoaitre de Pallet, M. 64 An ORIGINAL GRANO l' prostly for her Ma rote's The on a subject selected front the poetical Ballet for the subject the kindness of a popular and The celebrated Pas de Goat and an entirely new Divert by M. Perrot, chick, uniting des Deemes and Pas de Goat orlainehty, and will aim CONSTELLATION. THEATRE ROY sworn and decided hit acts, of the SCHOOL FOR SCH the fair7estrarsganre of the entire strength of the coin; for private boat.. stall., and 1 Ttlitik'lAN- SIO WT. J.AMEN4 THE IT Pen. Horrington, White. untenable entertainment th theatre; To-morrow Morning Performance uttheSt.l4)ll.o4 o'clock ; To-morrow Evening evening at the M. Janietes ' Crosby Hall; and Saturday VGYI'TIAN-HALL, ..L2 ETHIOPIAN SEMEN . . Why • The mall. foe Vigo, t Iporto. will be mode up on the mornin The Weft India mail., incl. the Ilavannah, will he made up 11, overland mail, for Gibrai Eirept, Aden, Ceylon, India, Ito will be made up on the mornin The overland cload made, Ferypt, Aden, Ceylon. India, 11 • *venue of the 24th February. The ensile for New South W Zealand will be made up on the The mail, fur Britt.). Sul th States, will be made up on the . The MOH, (or the Brazile, th bum., Bahia, Ma lent, and the svenime of the 4th March. TO Co/CR We cannot make, in soy way, anonyronunly ; but Ulu* who lied their onnhdenre rempreted TO ItETU IN ANY MANI:. ..• Adverthiementa intended h mast be at the One by Two mom WATER rem Ma —Morning, min n i To-Moneow —Morning, i 7 .ni LONDON, 71 IN the House of Lo sioners 13111 was read a wheat, &c., Bill, co again brought the subje verpool under the notice Ilion to repel a charge, that he was inimical to followed on Irish di MOUNTCASHELL moved view of showing the to land in Ireland ; but, on CHANCELLOR that it w formation could be gi) e tire was withdrawn. In the House of Co; gave notice of his into nti to submit a financial s the question of going in Persons (Ireland) Bin, place in reference to th after which, the house the remaining clauses amendments were pro withdrawn.—The Brewl and Distilleries Bills ali and the Customs' I )uties M. GVIZOT took the the French Chamber of reasons which guided hi duct in the double aff Infanta and the abandon the annals of statesman signed for public co sonal, and puerile, a., to have been his grout faith with England, I between this country a continued reproach to g they sacrificed the gra, Never surely WM there a a great and national polio and ministerial piques, striking one of the Spani It is, unfortunately, 1 ABERDEEN had estahlishl relation between the n the two countries, the el the French court ecru done or suffered by ET cd. *too 0I Isso o 0 2310 0 0 130 0 • IMO 04 1001 0 • 1000 0 • 6314 0 • MO 0 0 IE4 •0 IM 4 • 1300 • • •M 1 • WO 0 • 4413 4 0 Uri 00 1487 II 6 11$0 II I 3310 0 0 3000 00 700 01 5000 0 1 . 1 ,10000 o s 2700 00 1070 0 0 ;14125 0 0 10607 11 IN N 0 0 3666 13 3 3000 0 0 SOO Oa %I pp oti 40$ o• 11119 0 0 1,700 : 0 D:00 0 0 9179 10 0 LlaliAllOW - (buoty