The Express. — London, England, 1847-05-11 00:00:00

Prarn. __ Kietnton-ercet:fhames Sera Tereermats; Melmehameessi Items; Bills. Tlllltri IIZADISG&—orsee ailiglin seelhAfalem isAwify . No i ,..„ „..) , ~„,a , ham i e. ie.." Knew so Moleasessw . 1. sod Dna T.obildse) . Ewa Bouth-tastern itallwey llariX.t ulna PUBLIC 3 SECOND READINGS—Now of O=WW22 Ca 2 t 2 T• l2, ke ; In coma red tames tlreiand); Mb. COMlSlTlBP.W.—ltoristeelag a Sllthes !` (nonlandh _; Tr24 2 . 1i.. t 2. 2 ,2 of lands ( Psvalead); Crown (Contra (lleseland), roar moral ( 8*224 end Ziotland); Bills. REPOirt—roor Relief -uperv22oo (Irdmid) (No. 2) MIL Milan IthADLNGs.—Drausege of Lands; Naval *mimed Boys; Mu, USE OF GRAIN TN DISTILLERIES.—FURTHER SUSPENSION OF THE CORN DUTIES. Mr. H. BAILLIE whether there moony intention of pro- hibiting the use of grain in distilleries? Lord J. RUSSELL—I was not prepared for the question, and, therefore, I will not undertake to-day to answer it. As it k is been put, however, I may as well state that on an early day it is my munition to propose the continuance of the sus pension of the duties upon the import of corn. (Loud cries of - Hear, hear," from the ministerial side. THE PRESENT CRISIS. The order of the day tor the house to go into a committee of supply having been read, and the Speaker having left the chair, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose and maid, that he had now to move the resolution of which he had given notice oil Friday night, relative to the discount upon the recent loan. He was not aware that he need add much to what be bed stated oa Friday as to the intestines of the government with regard to the present state of the money market. On Friday he had stated that he proposed to submit to the committee a remlution enabling the government to allow interest by way of discount on all the sums paid up by the contri butors to the leen in anticipation of the instalments which would be due on a future day. He had then, he believed, put the house in possession of all the views of the govern ment, except as to the precise amount of discount which he proposed to allow. There was one point, however, upon which ho ought perhaps to take an opportunity of saying • few words. It had been represented out of doors that the uovernment looked to this rueseure as a specific which would put an end to all pressure and panic, and which would produce effects of great commercial and monetary magnitude. Now, there was no one but was aware that from the high price of corn and other necemaries of life, and the conse quent inability of the people to purchase article* that would otherspi-e enter into consumption, considerable depression, preeture, and difficulty had arisen. To relieve such • state of things as that by any ouch measure* es the present would be impossible. He (the Chaucellor of the Exchequer) hod never anticipated any such result from the proposition; and it was therefore. perhape, right that he should state more explicitly what he did expect. (Hear, hear.) He was well aware that this measure would neeesserly throw an addi tional burden on the public. At the same time he was not prepared to admit, even though it had that effect, that it was a bad bargain on behalf of the public. Nothing was eo de trimental to the publicos depreciation, and nothing, conse quently was better fur the public than to keep up their credit, even at a small additional outlay. They were all aware of the high rate which money bore at the present time. It was notorious that the rate of interest upon exchequer bills had been far from equal to that upon other neuritic', and come queatly that those bills had very recently been only saleable at • discount, if at all, and that the negotiation of loans upon them had been in many cases unsuccessful. He had thought it wise, therefore, to put those bills upon a better footing and this, together with the measures which the Bank lied taken to negotiate loans upon this class of securities, must no doubt have removed much of the inconvenience. He said then, that bethought these mt asuree indispensably ne cessary for the public credit, end very desirable in order to let loose money which had been kept out of circulation under the pressure of alarm, and in order also to remove much of that want of confidence which at present prevented people from coming into the market and dealing bo'dly. The re presentations which had reached them stated that the public were not able to obtain the ordinary rate of discount. It was said that the country bankers were unable to afford that amount of re-discount which they were in the habit of afford ing, contrary, indeed, as many maple thought, to sound prin ciples of banking. He was also informed, and on substantial authority, that the large sums invested in railway shores had absorbed to a great extent the money which was usually in the market. In Lancashire, especially, he was told that so much money had been locked up in this way, that trade had, more than usual recently, been canied on upon the principle of re-discount. [Mr. Hume here asked the right hon. gentleman to speak louder, end address the house rather than the chair exclusively. "It is not usual," said the host. 'member. " for • speaker to turn his back upon the members."] He was told thit pressure upon the monied men in London was alto great, arising in a considerable de gree from the custom of hankers to piece their money at call with the bill-broken. Of course, when a time of alarm ' came, the bankers called is their mace,' ; and the effect was, that the whole pressure and alarm was concentrated upon the erste= of discounts, where, of course, it told the most rapidly and the most effectually. It was also represented to him that those who held exchequer bills, being unable to contract loans upon their bib, had felt an unusual pre.. sure. The tint thing, therefore, to be done was to place those bills at a premium, and he anticipated, as he had said before, that the aeons taken for that purpose, and the loans upon such bills by the Bank, would have the effect of petting much money free, and restoring confidence to a considerable extent. It wu admitted on all hands, indeed, that it was not so much the want of the circulating medium with which they had to contend, as the want of that medium being put into circulation. He was not prepared, however, to say that the measure. which he had pointed to could be effectually carried out, unless steps were taken to secure an influx of money into the Bank, which could be meet readil ... / , he thought, secured, by offering a premium upon the a y payment of the instalments of the recent loan. The o 'etc, therefore, of his present resolution was, to put the govern ment in cash at the Bank. As he had before stated, the ex tent of the demand made upon the Bank by the government during the last quarter, had been exceedingly concen trated. He had forewarned the Bank early in the quarter of what would be the probable amount required by the go vernment, and, therefore,there was no extraordinary demand upon the Bank for assistance by the government. But he bad been told that when the Beak Charter Act was passed an seaurance was given that no such aseidance would be *gain required. He could tad no record of any such assurance with reference to the Bank Charter Act. When a meager* was in that year brought 41 for equalising the payment of dividends at the different quarters of the year it was said that that measure would have the effect of leaving' the government less dependent upon Bank assistance; but so far from the Bank Charter Bill causing any such effect he had expressly stated the reverse. He stated this to show that he bad then foreseen that assistance would Le ri cubed by the government from the Bank, and that no expectation had been held out that such requirement would not be made. He thought it right to state so much to correct the saisimmea. For his own part he saw no reason, indeed, why the government, as one great customer of the Bank, should not occasionally malt for accommodation as well as any other great customer. He believed that on the whole the government received each accommodation to a less extent than others, and there was always this advantage to the Bank, that what the government was likely to require was uniformly foreseen. But, at the same time, tie thought it very desirable to prevent as much as possible the occurrence of this necessity for accommodation. and especially to pre vent it in the succeeding quarters. He proposed the present resolution, therefore, to enable them to discharge the pay ment of the dividends in the next quarter without aid to any considerable extent from the Bank. It was good policy at the present time to ease the money market, and he was glad also to have it in his power to accommodate in any way the gentlemen who bad contracted for the loan. They could not have foreseen what had since hap pened, and the bargain they had made was not a very good one for them. (Hear.) Whilst the government, therefore, stuck to their bargain, it was good policy on their part to act liberally by those who had taken the loan from them. The rule of private life in commercial dealing was equally applicable to the dealings of a state, and he thought it right to deal liberally by others, in order that on future occasions they might deal liber.Uy in return. Any legitimate facility which he could therefore offer to these gentlemen, he was extremely glad to be able to afford. Neither, he was bound to say, did he think that this measure need entail any very eessaiderable loss. If trade W 24 stopped or checked, the revenue necessarily suffered. During the fortnight the panic had prevailed the customs' duties had fallen off. He was glad to say, however, that affairs in that department had new resumed their usual course. He was glad also to say, that tee heard to-day that things in the city were much better than they were, and that the demands upon the Bank for loans even at 5 per cent. were less than could have been anticipated. On Friday and Saturday they were less, and to-day, in all respels, the market was easier. It was true that funds had, to a small extent, declined, owing, possibly, to • rise in the prim of exchequer bills, upon the rise in the interest ; but the governor Bank had that day informed him that, "on the whole, they had pared an easy day. There had been a very moderate demand for loans upon exchequer bills, whilst there was an influx of Dutch gold to the extent of 920,0001., and later advises from Amenca brought the exchange at such rates as rendered a further export of gold to that quarter exceedingly improbable." (Hear, hear.) This was such an improved state of things that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should have felt the most san guine hope of immediate revival were It not for the state of the corn-market. (Laud cries of " Hear, hear.") He should have laved that no such cheeks to trade as bad been Fognslied would have occurred; but it was im possible to deny that the price at which corn ruled was most material. His noble friend beside his (Lord J. Russell) had stated what was the measure the government considered the readiest and beet to take under the circumstances ; and be (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should hope that that measure, together with the continued Imports, would afford • cheek to a further tile. A return which he had before him showed that during . the last week in April the import had been at a rata sufficient to provide food for seventeen millions of people. There had come in 200,000 quarters of what were known as " bread stuffs," and of " all kinds of grain" no lees than 333,273 quarters. Such an importation as that was at • rate sufficient to feed 17,000,000 persons per annum and was an importa tion sufficient, one would have thoug ht, to cheek the ten dency to rise in pries. [An hon. member here asked, bow' much was for home consumption, and what was the decrease last week of the quantity in stock 1] Only about 30,000 quarters of the entire quantity was entered for foreign exportation, and the decrease of the quantity of corn in the granaries was not, lest week, move than 3,000 eve. in the whole. He would now only add that, since Friday night, he had determined to make a slight alteration in the terms of his proposition, relative to the discount. The con tractors of the loan, whom ha had saw that morning, repre sented to him that if they were obliged to pay up at onee, the consequence might be • fell of steak, and he thought it It , 7'!=IPP *end= desirable to 'Herd Om miry opportunity of pay big No as might best wit Wok earrimiensa He proposed V. oiler them a farther lemineement by giving au option either of motet heirs June ilk an which they would receive interest at the vein of II per seat per wuam, or be fore the 10th of September, an which they would receive in tenet at the rate of 4 per amt. His resektioa wool. run — that every contributor to the loan al sit =WIWI* made during the present ees, y who shall pay_ If inetelments to the Bank of Englander. embalm Jame iloilollieslisared In terest by wayof diermot et the este of d gprsrant. per mono, and every contriMiter who sham his Inrlehnmr deer the 18th of June, and on or Mire theleth of SopCsaber, shall be allowed interest, by way et dieswant, at tie gets o f 4me tent. per annum, such interest to be esmeted freoa the lay cc w hich such payment shall be Mae. The right bar demon aincluded by putting his remistion in the of the chairman. . . . . The resolution having been pat, Mr. H(ME said, he saw no objection if dr government wanted money, to the mode now proposed of obtaining it. How far, however, the Chancellor of the Exchequer had ex. plained the muses of the present pressure was another matter. lie seemed to think the custom of placing money at call in the hands of bill brokers was one cameo( it. That, how ever, if he (Mr. Hume) were a banker, was the course he should uniformly adopt with all balances in his hands, in order to be able to have the greatest control over them. With regard, too, to discount and re-discount—why, what bad that to do with the currency of the country 1 (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hume) had expected the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have reviewed the bill of 1844 with a view to see what effects it had, and had not realized. (Hear, hear.) He expected that he would have offered some ex planation of the extraordinary pressure that had occurred, drawn front the present limitatioa upon the currency of the nation. The right hoe. geutlemaa had not done so ; he had not at all given them his views upon that subject. Nuw, whether fourteen millions of paper was a sufficient sum to be issued by a bank of issue was a question he should not disease. Many were disposed to say that in times of prosperity it was sufficient. It was impossible for any one to form a just opinion of the conduct of the Bank for the last two or three months with out looking at the nature of their securities, and he did not therefore join in the censure which some had expressed. He would appeal to thee.' who had supported the mamma the right hon. baron, t (Sir R. Peel) whether they had not done No under the impression that any such pressure as that which now pined would be prevented by it t (Hear, hear.) The right bon. baronet did not state that he thought the Bank of England should make advances on deficiency billy He (Mr. Hume) believed the understanding to have been that all transactions of that kind were to cease, unless, and until the Bank, having their coffers full, thought fit to accommodate their beet customer, the public. (Hear, hear.) He approved of the first step taken with respect to the Beak. but he objected to their being afterwards placed in a different position ill relation to the government from other beakers. The government ought not to have been allowed to have any connection whatever with the Bonk of England ; the first duty of a government being to pay all just demands upon it, without looking to say bank for unstaring. Except its supe rior value, and the greater difficult , therefore, of obtaining it, there was nothing to distinguish gold from tea or coffee. It was the want of free trade in bank* theirs which had subjected the country to so much pressure. Mr. MASTERMAN said he did not rise to object to the proposition of the right hon. gentleman ; but he certainly did not anticipate that it would afford that relief which he seemed to expect, or do anything to alleviate the uncomfort able feeling which existed in the money market. (Hear.) It was well known in that house that he (Mr. Masterman) was one of the few who had predicted that the right hon. baronet tea member for Tamworth would find that his bill was not available at all peritth. The alarm recently created Arnie, he felt quite satisfied, from the improper arrangements made by the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, bear.) His (Mr. Muterman's) opinion was, that it au impossible for the Bank of England, under the present act, to work in such a way that they could come forward at quarterly periods to advance two or three millions on deficiency bills, sod at the same time do justice to the commercial community. If an assurance went forth to the public that ouch a demand as this was not to be made upon the Bank in future, that assurance would do more, he believed, to alleviate the present distress than any thing else that could be devised. Now he would like to make a small addition to the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Wishing information to go forth to the country that if the government should went any assistance for the next quartedydividend, it would be provided in a different swum, he propmad to make the following addition to the meden: The samooltise, however ere of gibs Out Wa ft mould tend so ma\ lo ram the mitt imb to has nary modomnplyst as an anomie boa Ur Camommemr Ibm risat Sot be TO to Paramoont tor puma W arab Ito ark of MOM to mat mit drams to to way vololot Its Or et lam hey oat of atm tom amPullnent at Yr burl at dr bantdog mai. swill ailliMile 19 repay of the pee, rawarat d 2t rorosty, mod the lam sideada role to bm NOM to all future advano• ha the Maiof di W. BROWN bed no doubt in his own mind that a remedy for the prommot praetors might be applied, and he would bilged, w as At that mo ment there were about iovereigts in circulation in this countr y might be with drawn from circulation, and lb neeneethetituted for them, a portion of the gold being bruited in securities, and .he remainder deposited in the Beak. He ventured to throw out this suggestion Although he had no amendment to propose. Mr. NEW DEGATE said the right hon. baronet's (Sr R. Peel's) bill had been called" a fair weather measure," and the experience which they bad of its working justified that de• scription. He contended that the right hon. but., the member fir Tun worth, hod been en meow in describing the gold stan dees' as dating back to the time of Queen Elizabeth, whereas it only dated beck to the year 1774, the standard of Eliza beth being a silver payment. He considered that the past legislatiou of the house on monetary matters had done much to enhance the financial difficulties of this country. He believed that the effects of the measure of 1819 had by no means ceased to operate. Before the introduction of the pre sent system, none of these financial difficulties had been heard of—tone of these panics which had marked the last 20 yean—none of those great fluctuations in our currency, which defeated all the calculations of honest and intelligent enterprise. Mr. FORBES said that free trade was now general, and he did not see why it should not be applied to money as well as to any other article. _ _ _ _ Mr. FINCH said he had always been of opinion that a re stricted paper currency was the best adapted to the wants of this kingdom. Lord G. BENTINCE said it appeared to him that the proposition just made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer TM a very helpless expedient for easing the money market. (Hear, hear.) It might save the government, but it would go but little way towards affording the commercial interests of the country the assistance they so much required. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman proposed to discount his own loan, but was there ansubstantial reams for supposing that the contractors would he desirous of the discount, seeing that seven and eight per cent. were given for discount of the best paper in Liverpool, Manchester, and London, which had only sixty days to ran? He (Lord George Bentinck) confessed that he did not believe the temporary expedient of the government would be succesafuL He feared that, after all, the assistance of the Bank of England would be required before the payment of the next divend.. (Hem, hear.) He had hoped to bear from the right hon. gentleman that government bad some more substantial ex pedient in contemplation for easing the trade and commerce of the kingdom. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had told the house that things were getting easier in the money market. He recollected when, on a former evening, the right hon. gentleman came duwa and told them that the worst was pawed, and that things were getting better. (Hear, hear.) He, for one, could not see that any great im provement had taken place. (Hear, hear.) It was true that there had been the repayment of the loan front France, and that, .together with the money rsc.ived for corn re-exported, might have brought back some gold ; but when they reflected that the price of wheat had that day risen to 120 s. the quarter, and moreover that the stocks on hand were unusually low ; that the general im ports of last year had fallen off as compared into the pre vious year to the extent of ten milliono--(' Exports")—the imports taken at the officio' value, whilst the imports of food had been enormously greater th an on say former occasion he for one did not see that there was any reason to hope for an ebb in the tide of bullion without some legislative inter ference. (Hear, hear.) With respect to cotton it sp lay the ofildal returns that the importation of C red year, as compered with the previous year, had been but thirteen millions sterling again s t twenty-three millions, snak ing a falling off of one-third in the article of cotton alone. Yet, whilst the cotton received was ono-third lees in quan tity, they had it on the authority of American writers, that the money pai d for the reduced quantity bad exceeded that paid for the larger quantity imported in 1846. Therefore it appeared to him, that whist the gdo of wheat indicated that they must import very kap - kr whisk they would have to pay a very WO palm, they, hay* no stocks to exchange, even at • dopetonallid am seine sad 1826, would have very littlechaans of bekehrg back the gold which was so rapidly leaving the anotry. Their only chance then under the present law would be "'keep what was called the bank screw on. The first oilseed this would be a rise in the price of money mid the libagunt of bills, when the orders for corn, provincial amileselen mast be curtailed; and he must say that, m the peasant bare date of the oorn market, with the peebability of • late harvest, with the stocks of the farmers &Wind tarathad out, and their granaries empty it became • very leliOUll alladderation whether it was safe for the coun try, is se flies as the supply of toed was concerned, to continue seek memseres foe bringing back the gold. (Hear, hear). His right hon. friend had said that the noble lord at the head of the government had adopted the only efficient course by giving notice of his intention I to continue the suspension of all duties on cern. Why, under the old sliding scale, there would have been no duty 1 at all. (Hear, hear.) But the right hon. gentleman had also said that things had come better from America. It was true that the exchange had fallen back to 105 t—par, being between 108 and 109, the exchange was still against us ; bat the reason for its being a little better at this mo ment was that the winter having broken up late in the United States the corn would not juries at the seaboard until tke middle of the present month. He had heard that day from Liverpool that so overwhelmed was the American freight market by the arrival of ships from this country that it wee hardly pordble to a cargo. In New York freights which had been 21s.tr e Pt l iC e burel had come down to ts. 64., and even at the moment of writing another fleet of British ships was entering the bay. The reason of th e f a ll of freight was that the stocks at the seaboard ware exhausted, and therefore there would be for some time a cessation in cur outgoings for corn • but in pro portion as the evil mosusut was postponed , so heaps,' r e h - led would the prim of corn rise, _and at last we absiddka ss export a larger amount of haulm, although perhaps at a later period of the year. The sum ergament applied to en at sr deeldllitiens of jaliyisises. One of the misfor tunes b used ma lr by the famine was, that all the slope W boss destroyed- He bad mesa • mesa Mat in Cork market, Is what was obi Mr TYt ninon is October and November, 15,000 Oat pct bed bees sold against 3,000 in the season et 1865, nig VAIIY 111111. Area Out he gathered that the myopia ea awl, et berm Ma Ireland was very bed. Of this also, then, we should require a supply from abroad, and at higher prices. It was not the fault of the traders or ma anfecturen that they were in this difficulty. They could see be accused, as in 1624 and 1625, of over-speculation. Sleeks of every kind, with the exmptiou of tea, bad never boa so low, and therefore they could not turn on the mer &mate with • charge of over-speculation. Neither could the mainefeetemers be aroused of having persevered too lung in workiagtheir stills full time. Already, he regretted to say, that out of 1,161 mills, 728 WWII workiNgolkort time. Consequently, 100,000 workpuple were working short time, and 23,0k1 totally unemployed, (Hear, hear.) Unless they did some- Wag to ease the money market, they must have the greatest passible distress in the country. The stocks, by the sale of which it wee hoped the gold would be brought back, had I never been so bare, and, therefore, there would be little use in temporary expedients. As mosey became dear, trade would contract its operations, and, in addition to the manu facturing operatives, they would soon have the railway labourers and the miners of Staffordshire out of employ ment. Neither could the difficulty be laid at the door of the Bank of England, they had not been over-trading any more than the merchants. On the passing of their charter, the right hon. baronet the member for Tamwerth contemplated that their circulation must rise to 28 re 30 millions, sod in timated that the general circulation, in prosperous times, would be 24 millions. Now, the Bank of England had never exceeded 21,400,0001., so that it would be hard to charge against the directors • management of its affairs different from what the prepuces of its charter had indicated and intended. What, then, was our present position? While the Bank coffers were crammed with silver and gold to the amount of 9,200,0001., the Bank was, under the restriction of the Bank Charter Act, almost on the point of stopping payment ; and, at this moment, houses of the highest credit in the kingdom —men who could pay 80s. or 90s. in the pound, were in such& position that, unless something was done to set credit free, and, consequently, money free, four weeks would not elapse before they would be obliged to stop payment also. Such was the position we were in at this moment, with an unmixed standard of gold, that he was informed, on the very highest authority, that a great house in the eity(i with 60,0001. worth of silver bullion in its hands, was not able to raise money upon it. Could anything be more ridiculous ? (Hear.) Could anything be more monstrous than that • man should be in danger of being unable to pay his way, though in possession of 60.0001. of silver which was the money of all countries in the world except England, and he believed Portugal. We were in such • position that the whole export and import trade, as had been stated in the de bate of that evening by the honourable member for Lanca shire, might be suddenly brought to a dead lock for want of money, when the credit of our merchants and manufacturers was as good as it had been at any period—when the credit of the Bank of England was indisputable—and when the had 9,200,0001. of bullion in her coffer,, but which the Bank Charter Act of 1844 forbade her to touch. (Hear.) Was not the reasonable, the common sense course, undereuch circum stances, to get out of the difficulty by removing those re strictions on credit which were now starving and destroying the trade and industry of the country ? He said starving the trade; he might add, and which would, if they continued, starve the people also ; for if his argument was worth any thing, the withdrawal of credit would soon render it neces sary to withdraw the orders for grain and other provi sions from America; the effect, therefore, of leaving things as they were, would be, that three month s would not elapse before this great country would find itself without sufficient Mid to feed its people— (hear, hear) —though there was ample food in the world, and which might be made available for the wants of this country, if they would but remove the fetters in which they had bound the credit of the country. If this, then, was the obstacle in the way of our trade—if it was clear, as he contended it was, that free trade and a re stricted currency could Lot work in common, for Ood's sake, and in the name of humanity, let them be quick in repealing this obnoxious measure. (Hear, hear.) Mr. O'Connell said ones in the course of the present winter that " rapidity of action was the emetics of humanity as well as of political sagacity." That was in regard to supplying the Irish people with food. He (Lord G. Bent mck ) agreed with Mr. O'Connell in that sentiment, end he called upon the government to take warning by the fatal consequences which had followed their want of timely interference In Ireland, and have recourse at once not to temporising measures, but rapidity of action, for in rapidity of action now win to be found the rune° of humanity, as welt as of political sagacity. (Hear.) Let, however, the trade of the country once receive a fatal check, and it was impossible to say where it would stop. Now all was apprehension—but in a few weeks that apprehension might be changed to certainty. (Cheers.) lie bad been informed that in Lancashire one great house, whose solvency was beyond suspicion, was now in that position that unless something was immediately done to bring credit into opera tion, it must stop payment, and that in the credit of that host.. was involved that of no less than 30 other firms, all of which must fell with it, (Hese, bear.) And when once bankruptcies went on in this way, the whole credit of the country would fall like • pack of cards. He called upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the noble lord (J. Russell), to consider the great interest of the trade of this country, end to recollect that that interest was not limited to cotton speculators or to promoters of railways. Those whose operations were conducted in the safest and steadiest =neer, and who had confined themselves to the most legitimate course of trading, were all equally affected. Those who traded with the East Indies. like those whose trade was with America or the West Indies, all would, unless tome immediate steps were taken bthe government, be immersed in one common ruin. ( H ear, hear.) They had tried the measure, and they had discovered that they could not have free trade—they could not encourage unusual im ports, net only of corn and provisions, but of foreign sugar, and foreign manufactures—of hemp and of tallow, without paying for them in gold. The advocates of free trade pro mised that foreign countries would take our manufac tures in return for their produce. (Hear, hear.) God grant it might be so but the time had not yet arrived which showed any strong indication of such a result. (Hear.) He feared, on the contrary, that all the indications that could be gathered from the late elections in the United States led to the belief that that tariff from which they derived at this moment 27-30ths of their whole revenue, would not be relaxed, but would rather be made more strin gent. (Hear, hear.) The fact that she now received more gold from England in exchange for the present reduced sup plies of cotton than she formerly did for the full supp:ies, and that English gold was at this moment paying the ex penses of the Mexican war, would be thought no very great encouragement to the United States to adopt the course which had already brought England to the verge of a crisis (" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) Then, with regard to Russia, which • few years ago they were told could not go to war for want of money and could not move without the aid of the Baring" and the Rothschild', seeing the present position of the free nations, and that Russia had been obliged to bring her gold to maintain the falling credit of western Europe, there was, he thought, but little prospect of any speedy change in the commercial policy of that power. Then, es t• Prussia, which they had been told was already shaken, so far from reducing she had actually raised her tariff on all the cotton, linen, and woollen manufactures of this country. With these facts before them, any expectation th a t wo ahoud recover our gold by the operation of any speedy change in the commercial policy of those countries from which we obtained the great bulk of our imports, appeared to him to be based on a very "lender foundation. He hoped, therefore, that the present government would be in duced to follow the example of former ministers, and now that they found trade and commerce unable to move under the pressure of monetary restrictions, that they would come forward as Mr. Pitt had done, and as Lord Liverpool had done, not only to remove those mischievous restrictions which limited the action of the Bank, but with an advance of Exchequer-bills, and so set the trade of the country at liberty.—(Hear, bear.) They had now tried the Bank Charter Bill, and they bad found it harmless while it came not into operation. ( ' Hem," and a laugh.) But when • period of difficulty arose they found it would not work unless it was relaxed. The right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) had told them that no affection he might have for the act of 1844 as its author, would induce him to maintain it if it should be proved that it worked ill for the country. The right hon. baronet must now be convinced that it had not beet aresessful in one of its objects—that of preventing great spocuLation. Admitted that these speculations had taken this course of employing the money at home—yet so far as the spirit of speculation was concerned it bad never run so wild as in 1845. Now ano ther change had come round—bad harvests, a short cotton crop, and short crops of hemp and other production., had succeeded • period of prosperity, and it was quite clear, that so far as the act Wheeled such a state of things, it was only to operate in the most dangerous manner. (Hear, hear.) And when it was recollected that every sovereign taken out of the country was not only withdrawn, but earned a bank note at its back, and that we were approaching to the verge when silver would no longer be efficient under the Charter Act to represent notes, it was • matter for mature consideration whether the wiser course would not be at once to suspend that act. (Hear, hear.) The Bank, he believed, might cir culate upon Its silver, provided such circulation did net ex ceed one-fourth of that justified by- the whole amount of its bullion. The gold in the Bank now amounted to 7,120,0001., the silver to 1,429,1341., leaving only a margin of 350,8671. of gold over and above that which could be re presented by Slyer; sad after 350,0001. more gold should be withdrawn, not only must bank notes to that amount be withdraw& also, but silver must cease to represent the basis of note circulation. And should the gold be reduced to 4,000.0001, out of the 1,429,1341. of silver, only 1,000,0001 would be available for the issue of notes. In 1793, when the trade of the country was in difficulties, Mr. Pitt gave new , life to it by coming forward with a demand for 5,000,0001. of exchequer hills; and during the war, similar measures were resorted to at various times for the same purpose. In 1816, when no fewer then 2,060 bankruptcies took place, govern ment came forward with a proposition for postponing the hour for returning te cash payments, by removing the restrictions on currency, and prosperity was instantly re stored. When. however, the bill of 1819 passed, the coun try experienced a renewal of the same distress, but out of that difficulty also it had been raised by the issue of 11. and 21. notes. So in 1826 and 1826, when Mr. liuskisson said we were within twenty-four hours of bankruptcy—the Bank of England happily discovered& million of 11. notes, which served the purpose of restoring credit and giving a new im petus to trade. For though the bank note was not available for payment of foreign miscounts, it was fully recognised and trusted in this country. And at this moment a supply of bank-notes would set at liberty a great portion of the 30,000,0001. or 40,000,0001. of sovereigns, which, accord ing to the hon, gentleman opposite, were at this moment en the country. lie was speaking of credit, and the THE ZXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 11, 1847. w a y is would be affected by the repeal of the Bank °LaMar Ad and the ease of imeeskner kffis. Lately, the Lab of Frazier, when the trade et Mit curry was mace in he same predicament es oar own was at Ods ma. seen, stureeded in obtaining a loan of KAM et Wee from this Jesuitry, and as secs se it was known the the loan w:s Intend into, eoaddeace was in • greet memare re cored ; so much so, indeed, that the Bank of France was able to forego the de mand foe the lest instalment of 200,000, which ups this time he believed had never left this country. (Hear) This proved low everything turned on credit. bet the Book of England free now, and confidence would be at once teetered, and the urgent demands they now had for dis counts would at en. mane. Having tried the bank charter now for three yews, and found it either altogether inope rative, or 9nly *primly* for evil, let the house follow the example et a certain man who, having a fig-tree which bore no fruit, said, "Cut it down • why cumbereth it the ground ?"C' Hear," and a laugli.) Mr. CAR WEL L contended that the premises of the noble lord (in which he agreed) did not bear out his conchs siun. Ills premises had been addressed to the state of things as they existed, but when he charged the pressure on the money market, high prices, and low stocks of foreign pro duce [tithe neglect of the currency, he altogether differed with lam. Manage the arrangements of the currency as they would, they never could estract any artificial advantage from nem; but if in periods of pressure they dealt with the currency without great caution, they would only increase the disarrangements, and add to the difficulties they would Teruel , . The currency, according to Adam Smith, was a whi el. creatieg nothing of hash, but carrying round that which was cleated. They had a certain quantity of articles that could be carried round, and currency was the wheel that carried them round. That wheel, if it went round in acturetely, though it might appear to give abundance when there oas really pressure, would, by the absence of economy in the first instance diminish the supplies for the later and more severe period of the difficulty end aggrai ate the evil. The country was now beginning to feel the gigantic works which she had undertaken in a period of prosperity, but which were beyond her strength, at the same time ehe had to mound against one of the greatest calamities that bad befallen in modern times, and the pressures these occasioned war not to be removed by any change in the currency. It would have been fortunate had the alarm been taken earlier by the Beak and it had contracted its issues. He thought alo it would have been fortunate if the Chancellor of the Exchequer had cot called upon them for assistance when they were already suffering from pressure in other quarters. There were two duties, and only two, which attached to a properly regulated system of currency—the first was truth of the standard, and the second economy of application. The measure of 1844 was merely to give full effect to that of 1819 for ensuring the first of these duties, by giving effect to the right established by that act of converting bank paper Tutu pdtl. The tint effect of the act of 1844 was to cause a considerable drain of gold from the Bank of England. That gold was not, however, exported, but found its way into the coffers of private bankers sad other parties. It was said! that the act of 1844 had been inoperative ; so far from that, it hal introduced a circulation of gold instead of one of country notes. No doubt this change had been effected with some -acrifice of economy ; and, while it was going on, trade might languish, but they knew since the passing of that act, that trade had never before been so prosperous, and they had had s command over all the grain is the world. Then it was mid the hill wax mischievous, because it contracted the circulation; and yet those who held that argument in the next breath told them that the circuit'• tion was Low 20,000,0001. ' whereas the maximum wee 21,500,0001. He den ied that the remedy pro- posed would create confidence or dissipate the alarm which existed. It was argued that bank notes might be circulated at home, while the gold was sent abroad. This, in effect, was • propoeiticn for increasing the total amount of money circuiation, by raising the price of all articles in the home market. (Cheers.) He could not understand the argument of the hon. member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), that the same amount of note circulation would not do when corn wee at one hundred shillings as when it was at fifty shillings. We must pay for our imports, if not with our manufactures, with gold; and if we desire to retain the gold, we must lower our prices for other articles, so as to ensure foreigners to take them instead. In what way, then, did the currency bill apply to the present state of things. It we send gold abroad, we restrict the circulating medium of this country, and raise the price of every article of our produce. (Hear.) When the measure of 1844 was passed, )hey wore told that in the time of prosperity it would saturate the country with gold, and the hoe. member for South Lancashire attributed to Mr. Huskirson the opinion that by saturating the coun try with gold in the time of prosperity, it would be in the country when the time of adversity came. But surely Mr. Hu,kisson never meant to say that when the necessity for importing corn arrived he would provide gold in pay ment for every quarter. The sum of his argument was this, that the misfortune or prosperity of the country depended not on the currency but on the amount of capital; that the currency represented the amount of capital accurately or inaccurately, according as it was a good or bad currency. if it represented it accurately, then they would always have to suffer such misfortunes lathe pressure on the capital might create; if it represented it inaccurately, then they would have to suffer that and such calamities besides as the aggravation of circumstances might cause. Truthfulness was the first object of a currency, economy was only a secondary one. Ise the time of pros perity with experience before them, they considered what was wise and determined on the scale of the currency and the amount of issue they would permit to the Bank. The effect of that hill had been to saturate the country with gold without pressing on the energies of trade. They were now called on to tamper with the currency under a pressure which they were told would be only temporary. But if they once departed from principle, they would pay for it hereafter, and they had no reason for believing that the time when the country would have to pay double would be more ealsfactory ; en the contrary, they had reason to believe that the mischief would be greater then. On the other hand they said they were asked to say to the people " We call on you to accommodate yourselves to the necessities of the position in which providence has placed you ; you have been affected with • scarcity ; you must practise economy ; corn you want, and corn you must have at any price ; you must Lao) , fur it in gold, till you lower the , price of other commodities to such an extent as will induce foreigners to take them in place of your gold ; you must, therefore, submit to this temporary inconvenience, but you must not dare, great as the danger is, to face that greater danger which a departure from sound principles must bring upon you." (Cheery.) After a few words from Mr. BROWN, in explanation, Mr. T. BARING said he did not intend to take any wt in the present debate, but he could not remain silent when he heard the pressure throughout the country attributed to the effects of a want of corn, to the extent of railway opera tions, and to mismanagement of its concerns on the part of the Bank of England. He could not agree with the hon. gentleman that no novel principle had been introduced in the Bank Charter Act of 1844, and that it was in consequence of its action that they had seen an influx of gold into the country. It could not be attributed to the want of corn, because in former periods, as in 1639 and 1840, there had been a great want of corn in the country, and large im portations of that article hod taken place, without being accompanied by that total want of credit, means and power on the part of the commercial com munity to meet their engagements, such aa had been ex hibited during the last three weeks. (Hear, hear.) In other 1 countries a want of corn was felt, and importations into them had taken place; is France the want was equal to their own, and yet there was not in France that state of commercial difficulty which was experienced here. (Hear, hear.) It might be said that this was owing to the larger metallic cur rency of France. Th e metallic currency of that country was 80,000,000, with 15,000,000 of paper. la this country it was ' 30,000,000 of paper against 60,000,000 of gold. But that was not the question ; the question was, did the Bark of France refuse to commerce those facilities which the Bank of , England refused, and was obliged to refuse? He thought that railways had been carried to too great an extent, and it was impossible to deep that they had diverted • great deal of capital from other modes of employing it, but it was in con sequence of diminution of money facilities that railway securities became unavailable to their holders. (Hear.) At other periods there bad been as great speculation in the country without the same pressure being felt. Neither was it the want of discretion on the part of the Bank that pro duced :a pressure on commerce and trade which was totally unexampled since 1825. (Hear, hear.) The real cause, in his opinion, was the limitation imposed on the power of the Bank. (Hear, bear.) He believed that without that limita tion they might have done with a much smaller amount of notes, but the very fact of there being a limi tation at all produced this effect, that every person took means up to that limit, and when he saw the limitation approach he felt the greatest alarm lest he should fail in his futpreengsgemeota (Hear.) He did not oppose 1 the act of 1644, because he considered it an experiment, and seeing it brought forward and supported by men of great power and ability, he was diapered to give it a fair trial. Brides, he did not feel competent to give an answer to the habitual question of the right hon. baronet, " What is a pound ?" (Laughter.) But being eggaged in commercial pursuits, and having rather actively engaged in them, he could state what the facts were and what the effects were. (Hear, hear.) And when be stated this, that for ten days it was impossible for the most solvent houses to obtain money on the most undoubted securities, for the smallest sums, from any plain whatever, because the Bank of England by this act could not afford facilities, he thought he stated a fact that must raise seine doubt& in the minds of those who supported the measure of 1844 ; and that, what ever the degree of human wisdom might be which was brought to the preparation of it, emergencies and circum stances might arum in this country which would baffle all their calculations. (Hear.) The fact that there were 60,0001. worth of silver, which was a legal tender, on which not one penny could be raised, the Bank refusing it (not on a question of price, but looking to its own safety, as it could not have more than one-fifth of the bullion in its coffers in silver on which notes could be issued) was another circum stance that must produce its effect on the minds of all with respect to this act. He admitted that this act worked well, so far as it prevented an undue issue on the part of the country banks, but when they came to • real test of is value it totally failed. At the very time when it should not be done, the screw was put on, and the whole trade and commerce of tie country was dislocated. (Hear.) It was intended to give security to trade and commerce, but with money at 3 per cent. in August, and 10 or 13 per cent. in April, it was making trade and commerce the greatest lottery in the world. (Hear, hear.) And who were the suf ferers ? not those who they said were the cause of the press ure, but the merchants and commercial men of England, against whom not a word could be said, who could not be seemed of overepeculatioe, and to whom not the slightest suspicion could attack. (Hear, hear.) They had to export 7,000,0001. of money for corn, but the value of the property of the country was depreciated 100,000,0001. (Hear, hear.) Wty should that result follow If the Bank of England were to advance half a million, and Tardy, as if he bad bun tonimi by mom teldbhearted re miniscence. But hem, the id" they howl' the honour able member for Bimini smiths Itemaniable somber for Clitheroe repeat those isniaaationo—oang*g the order of battle, and giving as the war-cry MA, mine OM the Bank of England was not pradom, and had set watched the signs of the times. Why, let him ask, what nail ham happened if the Bank of England had acted odisnriso than it had done? Why, the very set which spoke loudest for the prescience, the eirudence, the segacity, end the fore sight of the directorate, was the very act so much questioned, of reducing the interest in Hugest! To that set was the nation indebted for rescue from entire ruin. The oanfidence of the public was raised by it ; and to that sir- , montane& England owed it that her merchants had scoured the world for torn, and that the exchanges of the continent were almost everywhere is oar favour ! (Cheers.) It was not right that the Banked which had thus con tributed to teed time es y, go without any expres sion of approbation eir eimilknos from that great act — but what they hod W &opium was, that so great an autho rity on this question as the right hon. gentleman, the last person from whom they might have expected a rebuke, should, amid • mass of incoherent assertions, have used language which might be construed as coodemsatory of their conduct, so that all the creatures of panical ignorance might agree that the Bank of England was the author of the evil, and that they had the authority of the right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth fur the fact ! (Loud and repeated cheers.) Now, he (Mr. Disraeli) was not one of those who, on such a subject as the present, could appeal to the passions of the house. He wished to come to it es a matter repairing the calmest consideration and he believed if this act of 1844 were calmly considered— if facts were investigated and windy opinions avoided—they might be led to a result highly beneficial to the country. What mainly appeared to him imputable to the act of 1844 was, that whilst it was an eat which could not pre vent any mischief that under the former system might have occurred, it was an act which prevented much of the benefit which might have been expected had that system been adhered to. It appeared to him that it would be found upon examination that this act failed in every object it was held out to the public as designed to fulfil. First, they were told that this act would prevent any of those disorders which they were accustomed to associate with the name of panic. they the act was under discussion he recollected that there always was brought before them the instances of 1836.37 and of 1839. It was by a picturesque representa tion of those osseous of depression and public discom fort that this house was ailed upon, on the authority of one supposed to he deeply read in the subject, to pass the bill now under their consideration. Now, it was a fen, which he was able to prove, that if this bill had been enacted previous to 1836-7, the disorder which happened at that time would have equally oocurred. He could prove that to them by the records of their own house. In the drain of 1838-7, from the end of March to the end of December, the bullion in the Bank fell from 8 millions to 3,900,0001., yet the circulation was never aagreat as it would have been under the act of 1844. If that act had been in existence in 1836-7 all the disar era which had occurred might still have occurred —none of them would necessarily have been presented. The official returns upon the table proved this fact. He took the return from March to December, and he Lund that the cir culation in the month of March, 1836, was 17,600,0001., whilst the bullion wee 8,000,000!. According to the act of 1944, the circulation might have been 22,000,0004 If he took the other months he found the same result. In April, 1836, the circulation was 18,500,0001, the bullion 7,600,0001. Thus, whilst the circulation was 181 millions, it might, under the acts of 1844, have been raised to 211 millions. Let them look at the return for the 6th of December. At that time the circulation was 17,000,0001.: the bullion only 3,900,000!.; but, according to the act of 1844, the circulation might have been 17,900,0001. But then it was said, that the act was intended to control the discretion of the Bank. Now, how would it have controlled the discretion of the Bank, or pre vented the evil in 1839 ? During the drain of 1839 the Bank securities were 26,600,0001., the bullion, which in April in that year was 9,500,0001., fell to 3,2.50,0001. On the 16th of May the Bank raised the rate of diacoant to 5 per cent. on the 20th of June to 64 per cent. On the 13th of July the dead weightwas offered for sale, and on the Ist of August the rate of interest was raised to 6 per cent. That was indeed a period of ruin. Then was the time when the Bank weat to France for assistance. Now let them see what, under such circum stances, would have been the effect of the act of 1844. This was the way to test the virtue of that boasted law. On the 27th of November, 1838, the circulation of the Bank was 17,800,0001., the bullion 9,500,0001. Adding to the 9,500,0001. the 14,000,0001. which might be circulated under the act of 1844, the total circulation might have been 23,500,0001., instead of 17,800,0004 Through the first four months of 1839, the amnia state of things existed. On the 16th of May—the day the Bank of England raised their rate of interest—the circulation was 18,300,0001. ; the bullion, 4,100,0001. Therefore, had the act of 1844 been iu operation, the circulation would have been within 200,0001. of what the circulation really was. Take the 13th of July. The cir culation on that day was 18,600,000/. ; the bullion, 3,400,000/. The circulation under the bill of 1844 would have been hardly one million leas. It was, therefore, perfectly clear, that as to a " control of the power of the bill, ' which they were told was one of the great virtues of the act of 1844, had that act been in operstion in 1836 and 1839, it would have made no tensible difference in the state of the circulation or the con duct of the Bank, and in any months of disaster and disorder it would even have permitted a larger circulation than that which really ruled. (Loud and repeated cheering.) But now he came to another point, namely, the fluctuation of notes, in correspondence with the amount of bullion in the Bank. It was avowedly one of the objects of the act of 1844 that, under its operehoo, notes should fluctuate in correspondence with the amount of bullion which the Bank might hold. Now how had that been fulfilled ? It appeared from the return of the 21st of September, 1844, that the bullion at that time in the Bank was 15,100,0001., whilst the cir culation was 20,600,0001. (Hear, hear.) But by the eighth weekly return, after the act came into operation, it appeared that the circulation had risen to 22,300,000!., whilst the bullion had decreased to 14,000,000/. Thus whilst the bullion had decreased more than 1,000,0001. the note circulation had increased 1,700,0001. If they came to the clese of the year 1844 they would find that the bullion return was 14,800,0001., whilst the circulation was 20,100,0001. In the early part of 1845 the bullion was 14,500,0001., the circulation 20.600,0001., but three moatha after the bullion was 16,200,0001. whilst the circulation was precisely the same. so that during three eventful months during which the bullion increased 2 millions, the circulation was not altered. (Hear, hear.) Yet it was on the faith of its causing a cone pondeece between the fluctuations of bullion and the fluctu ations of the circulation that this act was passed! (Cheers.) If, then, this act had no power to control the discretion of the Bank of England —if it failed in regulating the fluctuation of the circulation—what advantage. he would like to know, was gained by it to counterbalance the great inconveniences of which they had heard that night from the hon. member for Huntingdon ? (Hear, hear.) They were told that the state of a ff airs in the city was unprecedented—that if there was not an actual state of bankruptcy, that never was the condition of things equalled. They were told that the Bank of England could not mist the commerce of the country, because they were obliged by law to keep a certain amount of treasure in a particular department. He had shown that the act failed in every object tor which it was designed. Why, then, run all this risk—why encounter this certain peril sad danger for the sake of retaining such • law upon the statute book ? ( Hear, hear.) It was thought at the time that the pro mised advantages would be dearly paid for—it was now felt that they paid dearly without reaping the advantages. It might he some case for the bill if it attained the advantages it sought, but not attaining those advantages were they to be ruined, in order that it might not he repealed ? (Cheers.) If they found that they had given their assent to such a bill upon false pretences—if they found that it proved a failure in its operation—let them not br satisfied by the right hon, baronet tuning round to exclaim " You forget the injury it has prevented." (Renewed cheers) When that right hon. baronet tuba them of 1836 and 1839, let them remember the facts he (Mr. Disraeli) had presented to their notice that night, and judge for themselves how the prognostications of the promoters of that measure had been rallied. (Chien). The latitude of discretion in the Bank directors had not been altered by the act, but remained just the same aa before. During the progress of the measure through parliament, well nigh the whole body of London bankers addressed to the right hon. baronet a paper—a protest, in fact, in which they expressed their conviction that unless, in periods of crisis, the Bank had power to extend their issue'. beyond the fourteen millions, the result of the limitation imposed would be most injurious to industry. That prediction bad been amply fulfilled. The bill of the right honourable baronet had turned out a clear failure. Why, then, was the country which had so suffered from it to be longer afflicted with it ? There might be looses resulting from the discretionary expansion of circula tion required by the London bankers in the protest he had read, but the point was, that loss was better than ruin. (Hear, hear.) He would now leave the question in the hands of the Route. Sir H. PEEL said the hon. gentleman was wrong in stating that he left the question in the hantls of the house; for the house was not in a position to pronounce any opinion upon it at all. This great subject, in point of fact, was before them in the most inconvenient form possible. The right hon. gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer had made a proposition, of which be (Sir K. Peel), tor one, cordially approved, and which he felt would meet with the general sanction of the house. His hon. friend the member for the City of London then attempted an amendment on the proposition, but that amendment having been with , !rawn, it was impossible for the house to come to any satisfactory decision on the question submitted to it in the course of the debate. Before the house formed any opinion —it could come to no decision—on the propriety of some new course with referenoe to the currency, he hoped it would take warning by the course of the present debate ; if the act in question was as defective as it was alleged to be, it seemed extraordinary that there should be no approach to unanimity with reference to the new measure to be substituted for it. First, his hon. friend the memberpor the City of London re quired an assurance from the right hon. gentleman opposite that, if be required any additional assistance to meet the de ficiency bills in July, he should draw money, not from the banking department, but from the issue department, and he said that if this assurance were given, he was content to allow the act of 1844 to remain. This was a simple propo sition, involving no change in the principle of the measure, but it appeared to him (Sir Robert Peel) that his right hon. friend was taking that course likely to enable him to dispense with the aid of the Bank next July. Then came the hon. member for Montrose with a proposition that there should be an unlimited competition and free trade in banking, and that the country banks should be allowed to issue 81. notes, and larger amounts, convertible, on demand, into gold. This proposition, if adopted, would have no ten dency to diminish the gold circulation in this coun try, or to prevent the pressure that had arisen. Then cams the hon. member for South Lancashire, with a to go through the operation of l i quidating accounts, the same half million would soon return to its coffer!. Hie rig ht hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that the government had not in any way caused, or alai e d in pro. ducing, the present pressure. What he blamed the gee( ne. meat for, was the aupport given by them to measures which, if they had not caused, had certainly increased, the pressure. The system adopted was bawd on the assumption that there would always be prosperity. It did not make any provides for times of adversity, and at such periods it must place the government under the necessity of resorting either to a loan or to indirect taxation, and possibly even to both. The rule that "two and two make four" was, of course, very correct; but they had all along been proceeding on the principle that if you take two from two there would remain tour. to hear," from Lord O. Bentinck). He could not but wear; that, by his statement in January, the right hoe. gentlemen had not led the house to suppose there would be any defi ciency. (Hear, hear). The effect of what he said was, that the loan of 8,000,000/. was to be paid in monthly instaluseets, and that he would not allow any discount; and the public were naturally led to bel.eve that he would esquire ony the ordinary amount of deficiency bills. (Hear, hear). e a for the loan contractors, he was quite aware that they had no right to expect any sympathy in that house, tied MS* admit that, under the circumstances which were believed as exist, a fair price was given for the advance. It was very discreditable to this nation, in a monetary point 01 view that there was now less difference between the Eng. lish 3 per cents, and the French 3 per cents., than there kad been at any previous period. (Hear, hear.) His right hon. friend said that his proposal would benefit the public. So long as the Bank were enabled to give futilities, it might have that effect ; but it must not be forgotten that if there were a demand for gold from America, that demand mint be met by • contraction of the notes. The wisest course, under present circumstance; would have bee 0 to take, not the narrow view of a needy Chancellor of the Exchequer, with an empty treasury, but a wide and compreheissive view of all the interests of the country, and not, becaire they had eight or ten millions to pay for foreign corn, to act in such a way as to make the most stable and prudent parties tremble for the result of their legislation. (Hear, hear.) Sir O. CLERK said the bon. member who had just sat down had not brought forward any arguments which satin. tied him that the present pressure was in any degree to be attributed to the act of 1844 ; and he had so far paid a com pliment to that act as to admit that it had prevented an undue circulation of paper. Now, what were tee circum stances which had preceded and accompanied this presser.? Owing to the want of agricultural produce there wa s p ro . bably a deficiency in toe available capital of the country amounting to between 20,000,0001. and 30,000,000 f. ; and there had been applied to the construction et railway works a much larger proportion of capital thiu at any previous period. The necessary consequi nee of these two causes was to diminish the capital available for the assistance of the commercial world. Under all the cir cumstances of the case, it was not at all amohishing that the rate of discount was so high. Had the present system been relaxed there would, no doubt, have lees an appearance of prosperity, followed by greater depression. To issue It. notes, as suggested by the hon. member for South Lancashire, would be the most etlectuel mode of driving all the coin out of the country ; and they would have a return of the money crises of 1816 and 183 e. If the mearare of restriction had not prevented the prt eau. e seising from the operation of extraordinary cause*, it had saved the country probably from the still greater calamity of • run on the banks. lie was dread it would be nerethry to trust to time to remedy the pressure ; any attempt to tamper with the currency would only afford a any &dewier, which, as in every other case where a stimulus was app.wil, would be attended with are action. He trusted, therefore, that what ever means the right hon. gentleman might adopt to relieve himself from a temporary pr. twee, he would at all events abide by his determination not to interfere la itlethe act 0f1844. With regard to the particular proper-al of toe right his. gentleman be doubted whether it would produce the good results which he anticipated. When the preseat pressure was over, it might be easy to make terms, but so long as parties were obliged to borrow money at 8 per cent. he did not think they would be induced to make advances to the Chancellor of the Exchequer by the offer of .1 per cent. Mr. DISRAELI said the hon. member for Clithero (Mr. Cardwell), though he had criticised the noble lord the mem ber for King's Lynn for introducing int., the discussion a wider subject than that brought before the house by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had himself travelled very extensively on that ferbiddea ground. The hon. gentleman had laid down certain principles for the csteleisnment of a sound system of currency principles, the utemacy of which it was very difficult to caallenge, but which had no immediate relation to present circumstances. The hon. gentleman told them that they were, above all things, to beware of artificial arrangements. He (Mr. D.-rdeli ) would like to know if the whole banking system a sre not (as was understood) artificial in its character. (liar, bear ) It was very easy to lay down abstract principle s, which would apply to Utopia much better than en thiscoun ity. (Laughter). The hon. member de li vered a panegyric on tee act of 1844. lie said that the object of that measure was to saturate England with gold. We might now, he said, be subject to some financial pressure and monetary difficulty, but by the ' providential arrangement of 1844, the coentry was prepared for the crisis; and severe as was the depression, we had ne vertheless been prepared adequately to meet the exigency. Now, what was the state of England with respect to the precious metals in the year 1814 ? On the 7th of September in that Tear —only three months after the bill passed—the bullion in the Bank amount( dto 15,109,060/. Surely, then, it was not the bill of 1844 that saturated the country with. gold? (Hear, hear.) But then the hon. member for Clitheros found it necessary to account lee the depression occurring in the face of this superb enactment, an he did so, by the ready expedient of ascribing our monetary condition to the circumstance that alarm had not been taken sufficiently early by the Bank of Englund. (Hear, hear.) The Bank, said he, did not contract its issues in time —it took no care of its money when the panic commenced ! New, he (Mr. Disraeli) apprehended that, despite what might be vaguely insinuated by the hon. member for Tatuworth, that house had no right, under the act of 1444, to criticise the conduct of the Bank in its banking e.epartinent. (Hew, hear.) They had invented a•• porters machinery"—a ma. chinery almost as perfect as the sliding-scale—(loud cries of "Hear, hear," from the aitt ieulturists)—a machinery which was perfectly to regulate the issue department of the Bank. That machinery was announced by the mianary, it was sanctioned by the house, it was received by the public. If the Bank mismanaged their affairs, that, after the bill of 1844, was their affair, and not the affair of the HOW, et Commons. If the parliament placed in the transaction of public affairs a public body, not only over whoa they had no control, but over whom they had ostentatiously announced that they would have no control, greet ss might be the inconvenience—dicotrous as might be the esso sequences to their constituents and to all the prime* Inter, sts of the country—yet he did say that they, by their own act, had 'stopped themselves of criticism. Self mpg, common decency must prevent weir uttering a word; for what could be so condemnatory of their own sagacity— what could present them in so ridiculous a point of dwell society —as to turn round, like a common weld, and slim the Bank for that very thing which they thieved= had forced the Bank to do? (Renewed cries of " Hear, beer.") Remembering the speeches of the right hon. heroine in 1844 —remembering words which must be even now rigging ia the ears of many members nothing, sun ly, bat the perplexity of finding himself in so confused a position meld have induced so eminent a statesman to criticise the Bank Si the author of the evil. But was the Bank the author of the evil? Could it be justly arraigned as guilty of what had occurred? He (Mr. Disruli) was prepared to contend that the Bank, so fur from being open to critecrin, was entitled to the highest praise. The Batik lowered its rate of interest ia August. What was there in the state of the country in August which should have made the Belie look with any alarm to the future ? The Bank had at that time in ha coffers an almost unprecedented amount of treasure. She that lsesi sh e e d ha at d t h ha el t d ti f m or e a th ye e ar la Zd es a t h am al; u o i r it tw o o f years. If I s rtli t l Bank looked to her command of the precious metals—to the state of trade and manufactures—to the general feeling in the City—her directors had a right to suppose that theff were justified at that time in assisting Wendy every well-founded commercial movement. But no doubt it would be said the directers of the Bank ought sot to be in fluenced by the mere superficial opiuion of the commercial men around them. Some of them, who were members of that house, might have heard complaints of the scarcity of corn, and might have heard some hon. member urge that the ports of the country ought to be opened to the fres is dP°irreeitoti°llre, ° so f fo c re ire i rms gr tan ai ced,. W ero el u l id w n h o at d th ou e b n t. ? n T hcles he a J circumstances, watch attentively the conduct of the ro statesmen of the day. Would they have found the right honourable baronet the member for Tentworth—woalii they have found the noble lord at the head of the government — prepared to open the ports? Not at all there was so apprehension in political circles. The members tor Taw worth oanpitlifinodfonthgameeewnhoosignwere. betterßut eu ia ppose .. t d he m y lookell to trade, points than others. Suppose they looked to the corn Now here were some remarkable facts showing the opinias of the corn trade. On the 6th of August, 1843, the as struck for the six preceding weeks gave the price of wiled , 61s. 11d. per quarter. On the same day in 1846 the average was only 495. 2d. per quarter. (Hear, hear.) When, thine fore, they found fault with the Bauk, it was clear that the Bank, in August last, was acting in conformity with ths opinions of the dealers as to any fear of scarcity. Bat whet were the prices in September ? In 181.5 tee average for the six weeks ending September marked the price at 665. 7d- • at the same period in 1846 the price was 475. 3d. (Hel!! hear.) Did not that exonerate the Bank? Was it W he tolerated that the Bank, under such circumstances, skald be made the scapegoat in the eyes of a public forgetfill • , I the significant =cane of those who were, an i are, the nm test:nuts' an h d e h o a b d livi qu o ci 'Ll te to d ? Ille (H sp ear ea , k h in ear g . i r gu ßu s t 4e he ur w il oul e d dwi give . ;ears the averages :_ for each of the succeeding months of the two le October, 1845, the average was .. .535. 2d. 1846 51s. ltd. 11 In Nov., 1846 68s. 61. 1846 •• 695. 7d. In Dee., 1845 •• 58s. 9d. „ 1846 600. Id. So that, taking the average of the six months, from Jaly to December, the average was— In 1845 In 1846 (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He asked them, with that fidence, if that document, which no one could falsify, and la I could appeal to, was not alone a sufficient vindication of the Bank of England from those imputations cast upon her ? Those imputativas proceeded from • foregone conclusion. Hence was the great bill—the great monetary charter of 1844—in distrea—acel o icseer must be found, and that scape-goat was the Bank of 4' land ! He would do the right honourable baronet the justice to say that his charges against the Bank had been espremed