The Express. — London, England, 1852-04-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P P ARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORIJE.—NONDAT, Ann. 26. TM Mao met r Vete*. Lord Ilazintrats rat KAS:CHES IN CHANCEET. Lord CANPPALL explained dot Me iudinedversione all the Meter's 0 die* the other We» dld net apply to the Masten us•-saselves, but to the sasaat in PETITIONS P Tat Murrte.—By Lord POSITNAII, from Kings bridge, end ether plans in Deyeaddre, against calling sat as militia, in the prayer et 'kith he entirely car omed. MAYNOOTU.—By the Dake of MONTEOSE, from • t io ui Scolland, against the continua» of the great to ST. ALBANS DISFRANCHISEMENT DILL. The Earl of VERULAY said he had communicated to the Ma or of St. Alberts the resolution of their lordships to allow the petition.» against the bill to be heard by counsel at the bar end he had received a reply, thanking their loribblpi fur the privilege which had been accorded them • but they had resolved not to occupy the time el the hone; by instructing counsel. The bill then passed through committee. SANITARY CONDITION OF TILE METROPOLIS. The Earl of HARROWDY (on behalf of the Earl of Shaftesbury) postponed the motion of which the Meer sold. earl had given notice until Thanday neat. Theirlordahips then, at half-pest titre o'clock, adJescard. HOUSE OF COMMON3.—MONDAT, Aran. 28. The Sruanitia took ths that, at a quarter before 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. BILL' ILIAD A TNIIND TIN' AND PASSID.—Forth and Clyde Navigation; London and Southampton Road through Bishop's Waltham ; Manchester, Sheffield, and LimeoW shim Railway (No. 1) ; Sheffield Bridges and Streets; and York and North Midland, and East and West Yorkshire Junction Railways Bil s. BILLA AA ANIENDID, CONAIONIIID, AND AOI.IIID /0. — Bury (Semen) Hold; and Deptfor.l Oaa MANCIIESTER AND SALFORD XDUCATION --- BILL. On the motion of Mr. BROTH ERTON, the mead read ing of this bill was postponed for one month. PI'IILIC B SI N ESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. YtLITtA BILL.--134 Mr. MITCHELL, from Iklelpert ; Mr. BROTHERTO. from Salford and other plisse; Sir 0. STRICKLAND. from Preston; Mr. W. J. FOX. from Oldham; Mr. COBDEN, from Halifax and other places in Yorkshire; Mr. J. ELLIS, from Leicester; Lord PRY HOU 11, from Toners; Mr. O. THOMPSON, from Chelen sued Bromplon• Mr. HILDTARD, from White haven ; Mr. STANFORD, from Reading; Mr. R. D. MANOLES, from Guildford, tending thanks to Richard Cobden, Esq. and the taker members who had opposed the bill, but the Speaker having intimated that this was against the orders of the hoer, the petition was not received ; Sir B. HALL, from Marylehone and Monmouth ; Mr. M. GIB BON, from Woraley ; Mr. MOFFAT, from various places; Mr. BRIGHT, from Menden, Clare, Bridgnordt, Tam worth, Wishomels, Shrewsbury, and 17 from Rochdale and its neighbosirhsod; Mr. PIGOTT, from Readiag;_ Mr. MOODY. from Somertost; Mr. BROTHERTON, 27 hem Arnea trade. in Manchester and Salford; Mr. J. H. VIVIAN, from Neath ; Mr. HUTT, from Gateshead; Mr. B. CARTER, from Winchester • ag ainst. IN MATOOTH ENDOWMENT ACT.— B y Mr. BAILLIE, from Inverses.; Mr. C. BRUCE, from places in Scotland; Ald. THOMPSON, from places in Westamoreluid ; Mr. COWAN, from Edinburgh and other places in Seritliad ; Mr. A. BASTIE. from Glasgow Mr. MOODY, from Canterbury ▪ Wines:don ; Mr. HILDYAIID, from Whitshaven ; Mr. MAUNSELL, from Peterborough; Mr. G. DUNCAN, from 526 members of the Free Church of Kerrumnir, For fanhire ; Mr. J. BAIRD, from the Provost, Magistrates, and Town Ceased of Airdrie ; for repeal of. CRYSTAL PALACI.—By Sir DE L. EVANS, from West minster sad ruins other places; Sir H. F. DAVIE, from Dunbar; Colonel BOYLE, from From ; against the re moval of. ESTABLISHED CHURCH IN WALML—By Sir R. INGLIS, from a Anted of England lay emendation of Wales, praying that no milieu, unacquainted with the Welsh language may be instituted to any living in Wens. liarteTlOX or Nexrisuans.—By Mr. pxoorr, from loading, praying that nunneries might be placed under the ✓apervision of the civil magistrate. MILITIA BILL. Mr. M. GIBSON wished to rat a quads. to tbs right hon. gentleman the Secretary fur the Homo Dipurtmomt in refiroacc to the Militia Bill. The right bee. would be aware that, by the 58th section of theCtik= the house, all the provisions of the act 42 Geo. 111., cap. 90, sad all subsequent Ants foe amending the Suns were made applicable to the proposed saw law. He wished to ask whether there would be any objection to his (Mr. Gibson's) moving to have these several acts laid on the table, printed, and circulated, in order that the public might know the ex tent to which the bill before the house would go ? Mr. WALPOLE—The right hon. gentleman is of warm at liberty to make the motion if be pleases. All the sits referred to alm in the statutes at large. (" Hew," and a laugh.) Sir DE LACY EVANS had understood those 'Almada were to be laid before the house by government. Mr. M. GIBSON eve notice fur an early day of a mo tion in accordance with Ms suggestion. Colonel SIBTIIORP gave notice of certain amendments in committee nlitive to the appointment and qualification of the officers of the proposed force. TILE REV. MR. BENNETT. Colonel BOYLE gam notice that to-morrow, on present ing a petition from the inhabitants of Frome on the subject of Mr. Bennett's induction to that living, be would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he was prepared to state +betide's, had been taken towards institutiog the promised inquiry 0 (Hear, lieu.) THE LATE ARCHBISHOP MURRAY. Lord J. RUSSELL, in anion to Col. Vasa's, ad mitted that during Lord Baboreasbes . the late Archbishop Murray bat bola Abel llsopeesMa of privy councilor in the bleb seve=lat to (lard John's) regret, the oar be bed es LICSAL 11DUCATION. TM ATTORNEY-ORNERAL, la reply le Mr. Zwaikaili lbe llearbers bad dialers& tbe sables& et abtailem o sal bad alt deteretised epee =sad amissatips, liberally mailetwi. la tbk or beaks which private doer web& as in the peeps= of iassessisa. la Mee. lam e a risi t sd 1411111114 met Wad to the bar, it weal& be asesesay bib to oblate a entilleate that be lei alleaisd a Nam lbws beesses. et Oat be bei afisiatemily pond a air abeam Foe the pens* at bibles afloat, le thee boteessobe bombe bal iittamissi es samisadre, isi wadi Javan oblate peemeise= bps to be gibs to those easiest' whose esmiaa mat boa satisfactory. LOSS OF THE 11p11:111rlintD.. Major BlaiiiFoitli,q7testicinedhyiii7s. Marx ism' IN bore tribute to the exertions end the extresedieery proof of discipline displayed by the anfortsaneerahliers who per: shed in the wreck of the Birluishead r sod pre. seised that the claims of the minivan far isempeasatiss should be met in the most liberal spirit by the WaPallee. MILITIA BILL. Petitions were presented by Sir E. N. Buxton. Mr. Cowan, end Me. Moffat, from several placer, when the Militia Bill. WEST KENT MILITIA. Mr. BODGES wished to Noon a nahment el his made ea &May last, sad which, beet its implebabi lity, lad cemented some sammemest ia lii immes. 1e had Mated that iieMig t .time be lad helm esmiests4 with the West lest Militia the ameba. of deserters had lees 600. He bad sites written to the adjutant, and timed that the total number of desertions during the time I. regiment was embodied hail amounted to tBl. The adjutant also dated that the whole number of volunteers to die Use dur ing that period had been 2,144. MILITIA BILL--a^'"--- DEBATE. Mr. MOFFAT, in rim to mom the debate, said that be would not have trwiisd tko bow hot that be lad been very mash premed by Ma aonstitneste and Mbor holies of the public to give his nom oppealtion to this nessoaris. But it was no pert of kis bat elms te sestisele tile debate is the tone which had bites adopted on Fohligr NOR The question was far too Importaat to he sett la mere party eriminatioo or reuitninati bad la opinion ono of the gravest that could be discussed. It Vila set wltotha one militia bill or the other were preferable, bat whether the defences of the country were or were not is ea efficient state. As to the classes who were principally op posed to thi. bill, there was but one clam, and that clam comprised all liogland. (Rear, hoer.) The Home Secre• toy had used the Duke of Wellington's letter, in 1847, as an argument in favour of the bill. But if that letter was to be of any force, why hail not a bill been brought in st once in conformity with it? and, besides, the poseat bill only made fuss of that letter, as what the duke wasted was 80,000 riuliodied—not merely enrolled—inilltia. From the beet information he could obtain, our military marine was vastly superior to that of France; but, beyond that, we had a far pester element of power in our mercantile navy, which was as MaIIOPWWI IS Ulu united navies of the world. Ac mike to the barn. amber for Orkney., we had 1,300 , s 4300,000 tons. The French mar alga Illialage atfernaeaa to only 700,000, including not Ye Ibis me or two viissio of SOO tone, while air isssone To dos is lber millisrA with a lame somber of moils sus I.Ni to WO bow I. believed Oa Iliigollthene had boss piessiaid mast Ws bill, and odyase [arm sr it. aa .) bilks tie imager he goeso4 ho arced not NIA i.e.. airaliVe Off rot of Y dos Ant sow propioiL The estioaate was or NMI& a ear, bat be Mad that in the last rai 111110. as 'scot 140001. annually, and when dryers, wohols# NM ~thing like sit milliampere masa Mar. bur.) • OMNI oppose the further progress of Me bill. About ter.nty molten root together, but the Speaker called Lord SEYMOUR, who said he was anxious to state in a few wordy his reason for the vote he was about to give. Us belie ved that all parties in that holm coneurr. d in thinking that some increase in oar national defences was neemeary, berau.e, were it otherwise two successive governments would hardly have proposed an increase at the risk of im messing the national taxation. It was on that convietioa he hod supported the hill of hi. noble friend the member for London, of which he knew all the inconveniences ; but he thew/lit it only right to take his share of the respon.i bildy iit propping such a tne...ure to the country. The i- Uoilitctin of that hill was, si the house knew, prevented, and now another hill was posed by another government. Mow, it could not be eapp o ra id Mkt the present government, THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY - *EVENING, APRIL 27, it knowing the difficulties foe ,i and and the wt z i ts .- °pestered, sad knowing _ this "- • e i sin% mann was against any swum* . 'if, la ' miss for thy, by compohary satiate:unit, wadi hams A .4 *8 modd 172.64 . But WI, Ithm_surelth value they felt how snick wee'thoir .. - with expe Hoe of tho eolith:o 4 4 (Hear, hoar.) They `le' hut 'the st_,„ 1 the " of that *my no Use& while 'lsm intik* into tn. setts of Vie .' way - and —r, 'lends dee th e lees hod r tAl a ho r_ably eelessie — s" and yet, being oo partial caitiffs of the late govoismeat, *lda he, der sae was very fir liml hod admitted that the ad navy wore is meths& not provided I, thumb they bad provided sows, The south al bs. any inothireement k easouragemose to the mes to conduct themselves dun • IMMO Itterliallee walk Ho - gilded thOdedwdy M - the hoeths. .It must he ode ; :tilde bill ahead be odeseed. be was sthorkor th at the bosvacks woos thivemally Med So ter whit arose Way other ithosime e? Ice WAIL ad that the Man had not so/dent (Midlltild them) It nos doggie Ms On me gnaw nom lee eemiteet in then—(ben tessod he wanted to mien wend the Mean le bring hewn ay means bare hen. with the risen aseamme, they Were to dam gm ea. ninny ealkasissii. TM pa- peed& for an ern HON ? (Hen bear.) Zither the mot bil ben these ad thersities be Home dthemene wade ban le (He n to the expense theeekt that them who append • either the noe er the of sew bareedee. car le venirellehe rest of the may *n ether shied tug met the emend seeding. He shindigs,* earafteseaMe en dhentemiell. Bee, bear.) There were Image whet meet' lamina emmtebe think den ;Wilk man Mbar mast expense le be meineted, sad thus he weld whoa filg r o z ow s see higher* inalmitin stating that knew oaten deem at Imo then an nabbed 00,00 W. or 70,0001. In the was neeeemey, ad yet that the damn per Inelln. Seek am enema as this, inseparable from the k house were bent met n n tfeltint the gamy, s knew et th e sending bray, night be agreed Mt khan the geneemen. vs diem) to a rora si e s ouk s; bat the probability was that it would not (Hour, hear.) It wen a Mo th s smothent le Woes 4717W . 1ii: Se Wien be endued he mere them the one geodes. that me bill was . The Nil ef the late Then sea the width of the volumene. Both the was loot became the bud the member for qtr present end the preceding governments bad been at hie sandy to expedite the mature, had reneged se nen he their bathroom to the alleged aid that dedroy It (A laugh.) Sash andast bad no dank so den wee to be hand his. a vs/oaten hen He gnat)i km the sirpticity eked nigh the aside teed blersif doubled the Mani id them mellen. He bed we a bad told them was kis shidelmeneeine. (Aland) They cal endeemeat is Ode amain? em the entree of •=ri ota hat maw errear lod whin te append no and to be de- very quietly arousal an very andly swept. (Hear, fend bemuse the ante Ind the masher fa Landes opal Mar.) Wen am wavy ea en theses, he did met dent at not wends mend ratilag. Amnon le tinned. hai, all that the people wadi reth to anis, am& that thee Ist mbeal militia was andmilth ; berths hare Inv. would be thawing at velembees r ub to have den w in dairasiad anion • local militia. end his mode kind vine ranted by the gmenment. Bat • wheaten levee damn a paint militia, the whet weed be Ike thy was a thee anteging up in ea nehmen. an meld mover would ban me stadia at an. (HarrAse n e 4 .)_ _The bet be robed ea es • penman miming hen (Hear, Id was lest se among of its thie—a whin was ge- bear.) Is esethelem, be ssa te al my that he would at:Mthe leer thug salad. The melte • the ameeW gin hie nee he the believing that ures. bad china te be idled es rthe,amd the sew be null met de o th erwise in the ra lh e n dis ettbe recorded ni neteen, wee the Mm of the bill. If the amble bedew& Man of the gevenumat, end ef the palpable to that we used to be se dal, be might had a dolor lath with were withered sat adequate suable km to moot the pedant bd. wee fella a bill te eserdirkte eke which he by me mesas regarded as inpossible. " 7 4 :, and amen the lam while it eitheilioloi adhleg hear.) et al. It imbed amenthsey sad Inman ealleiment, Mr. CARDWZLL mid—Sir I think it is our doily to aid those who le the hewn add It wad support the neon reading of this bill. (bud ethers from tate ell the mem nth these who egged the miniseseid bentheo.) I thin that bar Majesty's ga do vibratory add it weed tube all the nnemen Irving asked the Hone of Came= to consider His wilt woo to oath the fgoogmbory WM- dispenismasely a peeped whisk they donee to be nines meat, beaten the w bad Ideal don the! mug le Weed w enwirdef hen inwerdeni it would ama and get eon& dhe aseandres be should be to went a very edemas raspreeibMy le elth may ono vote be etrildes on that ed the bill. The noble anion at this stage of the menus (Lewd Chum) lard the smother gar baths bod doted kis predilection foe I think that it would be peculiarly so at this a faros at MOOS embodied Wilk. Hew, he eland peeler period, ithesausb as the la so general • unear ths& Meuse of Weer, ie our swain army. whlob weed nee et opines in then and eat diens, that we do need seat ae isles, arl wed* be avelleble, if asitswary. Is sail to wane ear eating &ham ameefelly, la order to pros eat of the evaatty. Re And not pledge him as them in that position in whish the people el Ibis great em te he night Shish ft to do in oessmittes. pire have a right to me dna pissed. (Baer, beee.) Va- Bat ba thauli vete for the .wend roadies of the Mos the rive proposab, many is then mod beiteloarag, have been dear marbeeneding that he shield slit have sandsie met la the entree of the khan so ambertmea for the liberty to emend or strike oat our perils. of the bill, sad sawnbogus the thus. 01 aka ant we, whatever looking at its provides he that both meths of it this wentry may salad to, leader the preemie of ilameill rergetteonsiderabk ithsodthlth (Cheers.) ate thew that in • time of profound pace, and when no REID mid that , m a military be dewed drags, b liniment, yea ail Sad it utterly impostiblet to the manure with this ithisfois Wass *ea to .rime the maeseipilem. (Hoar, hear.) chum) If he bsd lb glenj a Vet 'plies Oa whoa gonad, them ere we advised not to go into cos he sheath have bus Mimed to wee it. Bet when Weise ea this bill? I with, Wood, before you come to a be reseed ea the essensee gins by tdm endle- denim, tint our gams position and the existing law sus the thereutry he the Name Beninese la laliednekes should be fay narkeneed. The 42nd George 111. cap. 90 the mensure, that thee greameall bed enadleitheldabest is an enduring law ;it studs on the statute hock ; end it is .dusty authorities, ad that ill woo arid Mt their advice, in permanent operatics. (Hear, hear.) For nearly 20 ad alter the deliberation that it had been deleralmed ea, years you ban manually dealt with that law in this manner : he hit this he must defer to jeAposts owl mem yea ban mend se act suspending it for 12 months, but in dues, sod vote, though , Ark; st the mere the sit pea have lett it is the power of the executive Bag qualifying his vote by the expulsion of his opi- governess* to set snide the suspension, and by an aloe. The noble lord 1. member for Tiverton order is soused to put the statute in full form. (Lardrakenter) mid thetBo.olo militia men would cost no (Hear, hoer.) It does, therefore, appear to me that if we meth the 10.11911 resothr aMmeuspee essd be mom available as a defeated this Militia Bill on the question of the second marry hats 111 MN of i.msWa. He (Omani Reid) had reeding, the minister would find himself in this predica the temerity to join issue with the mesh, le bear) mot :he would come down to parliament and say, " I —MA would say that if he bad Ye dhow,be slould not told you that 'lto country was not iii a fit state of defence ; bedtaie as to taking 10,000 refthier Memo le most way ia- my prodeeneer told you so. (Cheers.) I laid on the table veiling tee, and he should MEd& if OAS militia men a bill I theught necessary, substituting voluntary enlistment wens to be relied on to dusk so Wolk& He thought, fee owsqsalsory conscription. If you did nut think my tam that the noble lord had meth an withal:4W stheske douse .üßciently mitigated, you could have mitigated with regard to the relative eset of these Mess. He them stlll further in committee ; but you rejected my bill, (General Reid) believed that MOO militia men would eat sad I shall therefore not salt you this year for the Suspen se touch as 20,000 regular troops, If that Were No he was 'ion Bill, sod I than pot in force the act of George 111., sorry that ao strong en °piston prevailed in the country which act mats compulsory conscription through the tai against adding to the steadies any, kr if 20,000 men lot:' (Loud cheers.) Tho minister would say further, would cast no more that these new prepgeB. there might " Your constituents may noPtike this, but the responsibility as well be each an addition. He t.espt the regular forces rests with you, not with me." (Loud cheers.) Under these might be increased, and that as seemenedly as the force circumstances, I shall, as my conscience dictates, give my sow proposed by such a plan ea this. That the Neruiting vote for the second reading of the bill. (Loud cheers.) for the years 1853 and 1854 should be serried am the year Mr. CHAPLIN, who was nearly inaudible, was under- In advance. The average said uthollsor of illiMill coq stood to say that he thought that this government ought about 7,000, although in this Mr, lONS It we papas& to to follow the example set th em by Louis Napoleon, to assist, odd s,oollmen to Os army, it would be 11,008. - Ity re- by grants of money, the establishment of railways in the orsitingjelt _thce for the years 1868 end 1854, yen would south west of England. (A laugh.) . dada diPeasam eat Shea bathe ed Admiral BERKELEY cordially joined in the opinion ladies thief NM The thimermi lms = am e ly ei r d the expressed on both aides of the house,that the defenoes of the addionee etas mea it then rem. mod at the end of country were not in s satisfactory coodition under existing Ilk the rdemillime wand be thin le be alas the gams circumstances. He himself quits as much disapproved of the to ell Ig hse nddlidd he., if the Maireireg hed ben amid resources of tho country being improperly magnified as of at the Man Yes Ind& Ina bare this force the late panic—(hear)—but he th ought these resources ma a ilie fflorm.jute, at amnia might be judkiously and sufficiently increased by s use plan Id svol g end Yid d he Imo am. year of 180 , 8001 . , which would not coat 20,0001. He would oak the ho did the wbalempr dam; 15 , 000 ma to the era grant an addition of 4,000 men sad 1,000 boys. lion. gin- MOM Do • et 470,0001. Now win weed tlemen might oa y that that was a sma ll force, but with that the amens, 80,000 militiaman be? It wee stated addition to the force now in existence he would undsalake te be sedated at ssio fid is the fi rst thsr , to way that th ey should have a fleet of 30 mil of stamens, 208.0881. le the five He was lin will- in the Obeansi ; twenty-fur of thus Wassail= sheen be lag OE en ins evo V ea tall i ti m s g. ealy And was tie et 1101 or MOO tone, and six el a larger siar. Together oink mithe the he bed meth (Chem) then wad Mn. very formidable eons. Abaft Mr. said that woo Inn le nee for the Id Eft, ee slaty thousand men to be Wiesen in Cheebeng. and of what we mid • Militia 11/1, bat was In be end snare the noble lord and the hems that dry fact a ball , fain a MAIM= befer, like the relent army, would sagas at least 60 or 00 numb le Nabs* la. seed by means of a bonatfr, which gave • larger bounty at beet the name amber of verde as he hake' than that which we bed eat to the army, sad whisk se - ley) promised Is ban he the Channel to Oustses that. He mused that those who resolud it and were drilled Is. 21 s ho u ld vets nand th e la m a , He Ird cod i n g naw o f days in the Out walla sot make their appothasso in his noble friend's bill—(ironical chsers)—but liell then the four Farm Hahn a great olthellsis to a cireurntheises had charmed. Hon. gentians am the impe nd& bill at ell, would truths the manthy, and sin me d tn. how, w ho talked so meth ands a s ne w wasanch opened le thelleilmy adeptness at beet of to the nude. seed to admit as • veld aegement hi bin thus'eferg town Alla he would s eall feeder favour. th at me petitions Whams led ben seamed Sid hod heard Ile Mound drealder by synod the bill ends aside hind; but tin thee its with thilthqthth IR the late Ithrellitheat. which Whiled his. drawal, the been W bean with pietism aired the at the UN OWN that by nob a llies ea additional horn for prawn mommon. Re bed himself snoutedeight yeti ihe elms of the alimmley (neemkg it to he nesseary) Honk= hie own err thants, and was therefore follow- Olelii be MINI& GSA amt. that nth a plea wind be lag be.. patients oppasite in bowing to the will of the the Mee essoinia He ivied with the be Z elk Old SAO visual (Mid) that the athlete iaiii BUNCOMBE very much whited that the ef" the .:plebd me Mn we meld lon, Wendel as he wee In the hew and in the MiLsointy abbe emenelai Se sed then mot tawny, bed not brenessed _pain prude* We the de . gamble. liallathee Mn ef enneodeen bin bet th at the meenee bet Mini eateeelly mid dispute r I NT s i tlei nee nth, to lay bee the sum ef en entered he senadtare. the .may was they , be allagla Iskal beate nded le Inete= = Alden ; it puesesad the sales of the Pith as that delloold by the allethekklle lei Pad saystry dffeeibses the woad; it put down piracy, but he general. He OIL Idea) dirested hen the ouggss- Ned net subeedbe lathe ilselthes of the hoe. End Fallout lion of hie eem friend the skier he Leeds% es eimisel, peaseenall some time ego, that it was parable in to 10,000 embodied WINK width would be mast oldithisor • law hews le lin the Mani with powerful steamers able. Our army kil se mash hard seethe he tine ef =Wed Moss. In aspneeimg the Militia Bill he as e th er angels Dad la thee ewer, an they wen oapiyel are be was wowed se erase a large and arrest for lorkstrer periods he the worst climbs, then they we Meths to the defences of the sentry suitable to the sendi at bens. Why, then, rind a militia fares be rand whisk ilea Ke ofthwain s every ef view. (Hear, hear.) would gin an relish* the may ?If 10,000 mm woe added dr, d. it the dun nn hat. sen t* the that and be den without erfAbllthing serf, b 1 , 7 4 r : Bive the ill aan rocaderadem whisk would be remesary he um of the mdse. it be eseeded ee he out a kenbenne, . amd be w He bed been • eamellar of the analthe an the sem end baw dads. member wile bal deemed It de day may, Ind the cos a Woe ...arsine at 'Maga in to suggest • idler meseenee whim intradand by the late the eenmittee that mash maw might be peened by _a mvineent.nali neared give he ann te prisdple of bathe settegsment of ear milliaey hems ktheadsmise. He thinned la: (Hose, bear.) le tin ton Nth thought minareer eons may be me usehd le sera: wee alke, ad in new ep de paned yd, la his doom den moire beep wine they were leen& the advaatage of the Ida bill. (Nor.) Taw hill sea pradonler point. Agia, if the conseathkey wen le be Or a tb k a i. adole Lord was digneemt. um likely be ands used, as bed ben eroneek when they wen seat3pm deesethrt ha the panda Then wire ens keenehinshe la Itheh ankh their /dem weed be bear ai the ith e bathe a the 11111 aught set thenhee by ithateer seer them a Willis andalthe ef men le ke mud. ad denne wend lbw what Wined he 21 days he the yew. Pew, bias.) He did as meidmilleas nee meagrely. I. &odd give his an in fait tt denable te train mem Mod, met babes& km to goveuedne maawd wading. odd, du. de de of end Idea th 7 were lan hi eh molded ila NIT 114. BERNAL mid these vas me ame in tho levee who Odd like filkilifith- e woe dell reholted le vote abhorred lannaidemee pen then he did, and should es sedan a man n af thb kind, Weeds& ad me ' dent nary if say one beteg den skald expose Wig to such a ingend by its ands= to be, the bast ashen he the dray. The hes. minier at pcsterract had said that nentry. But he mid set maks up lb mid te vise lin nese who wed Is show the bill ef the late government to the mead goading ef the bill be bum* fa ad reed a that times, iambi to support the Celan LINDUT elasidered that it was honedble le bill before the been. That was me mimetic for hini. neggente the inpureense Of the emergency to which the For it was ma att=e6 op dithoreattdet y te Me for the intro debate Sew plielnild. ?IMP Onoundmi pairsomena had imam ad Out a bill, by it s p r i nc ipl e adniaed the misaley of Wessas, whitest hay, the de- was an assepeed. est tents for the seond reading of shill Mold hem of the ermean I and thil alafammaga alaallal of themes snaen,by wideltthe principle vouldbcconflented. of twesdneliklestitheisdiellodardif declared to the =an The hem member he Liverpool (Mr. Cantwell) bad said of Ceelefiemer ewilltv lam" le outweigh the that Utile num related to sanction the second reading of doable_ ef.„ dirbolo. , Illalke. ale the . ad, Ali doe- MAO. the gmenatent tight decline to intending a msa ellefier• ree. . .... WUXI, a. Wawa la the Mann dee ems In easpenka the eating Militia Act ; but he could 1 gee ; sad be Maw elothlelidd dared Ws Blot met esneein, ever e the minutes, that they would think I 'them of sethelent oared eglifted the donee' et a monk of bringing forward a measure so decidedly unpopular. which went he show doe, humus, an previous modern at- He thought that volunteers miibt be useful, but tempt at the Mena= Of Onaft /dui' Ma sallModaak he - was called on neither to propose a remedy or an therefore awl allimpt at soy bran lime ma be a liners. auxiliary. lie was called upon to consider whether he (Her, helm) The enserem sie le whether et et out pen could conscientiously assent to the principle of the bill; and ewasrt resetheles weal adlglinal da OM WM. WOO aft ea be did not feel himself justified in agreeing to the proposi thatien. It was molly setth= awed& tion that they should raise, either voluntarily or by cona- Matiodes tittles Wormlike ; ad thew sionold Its pulsion, 80,000 men at this particular juncture. (Cheers.) him to pet beyond all 1111111111 of deed the fact that it we Mr. DEEDEB thought the hon. gentleman who had just INSMINE, to ante an meanly mew gown defensive force. sat down was quits free from any responsibility whatever as atklmes. end gal raise pressided to quota at to proposing any measure upon this subject. lie (Mr. semmentany as he Mimi MI, the familiar figures Dudes) could not but be struck with the difference between W welreart of bit slow.) Ibia dedilenof force being Pol . the tons of the speeches this evening and those on Friday paiHouseps, pails, what the House of Commess ad now to decide night The exceptions taken to the measure on that oats wk Ins, how the required 1•1••••• was to be obtained. don were of an exceedingly varied character, but of so Segued of tboreciakere in the debate, and in partieu'ar alight a nature an ecareely to form any substantial oh the eight dm. nottinnan who had last spoken, had advo- jection. He (Mr. Denies) had heard . with groat sated the resolling to this country of the troops now eta- surprise the dockuition of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) tinned in several of the colonies. Now, ss IN regarded it ! that he should oppose the bill ; for, looking calmly at all this questios of leaving those of the colonies who possessed the noble lord had said, there was not a singlo word he had representative institutious to take metres for their own uttered against it that would not appl7'with equal force defence was, in itself, one of such importance that it could to his own measure. (Hear, hear.) Ihe country would 1 not be adequately considered when thus railed up . with be the proper judges of the conduct of the noble lord on the 1 the question of • militia; and he would, therefore, in the one side of the bons and on the other. (Cheers.) The remarks ha had to make, leave the colonial reference question was one that deserved their most serious atten altogether out of sight Another proposal was, that the tins ; and he trusted that hon. gentlemen in talking of what standing army be increased. Asa soldier, be would 047,thet might be done would not suffer what was to be done to although he had the greatest desire to see the army popular fell to the ground. (Hear, her) If th e government with the country, and not more burdensome than was ab- should unfortunately be defeated, he trusted the would solutely necessary, he was much opposed to any plan based net in a fit of pique throw up the whole affair, but epos an increase of the standing army.. (Hear, bear.) The that they would find out some other mode of im gallant officer (Sir De L. Evans) who hod p the proving the defences of the country. (Hear hear.) amendment, had expressed an opinion that 7, ° 0 4 0 . 0 d well- The plan of the gallant offieer (General Reid) tot :lamas alibied soldiers were quite equal in the field to 80,000 lug the standing army, was of ail schemes the least objec militia or raw soldiers. But, to this ease, what was wanted tionable ,• and if the government should not carry the pre. we sot on efficient army so touch as a large numerical sent bill he hoped that they would adopt it, with this irn hen dispoialile for garrison purposes , (Hear, hear.) Ile provement, namely, that they should encourage volunteer (Oeleed Lindsay) would no doubt prefer to have 20,01)0 corps in thine parts of the country most liable to the porsi smidgen rather than 80,000 militia men, if ho were in the b il ity of s tud, ( Cheers.) field and anticipated a general engagement ; but, Mr. M. GIBSON said the interest taken in the hill by fur merely &tends° purposes, as now eon- those whom lie represented must be his excuse for offer templated, he would prefer • militia to an in- big the few observations which he felt it his duty to address crease of the standing army. (War, hear.) The ex- to the house. The measure, he could assure hon. svostle pensos of the proposed increase of the standing army men, wa s si e wed as one o f no or di nary i mportance had not, he thought, been sufficiently considered. The i n the man u facturing di s tricts of th e country, and Mt of the army, as it now stood , namely. for 1 0 1 ,47 nee, amongst the great industrial community in the Manchester whick that ea . I hair e r the f as tibe Stith Ilty. eitUts would, la the fret aun t the =t of e r aegjE s — to the 111111111111 Pl vkieh wee I:=4 to • sad he w ask th• hen. mad whither It ought to love osam before them la sash a Meat ? In the 28th eta* he Mind that the militiamen were to be imblected to a the provides of the amt of the 46th of Oso. 111. e. 90, mid to all the Mee armadbag that am now in force. But bow was the palate mind to carry all those innumerable provides, in all those various sets so as to know the scope and meaning of the mann they teem to obey ? (Hear, hear.) Were they sure that all these provident were suited to the cireomehmest • of MD pound day ? Ile hued that is thsffsi yam ed the epics dainty Itl. the pre amble of the 112 set flat; that M would greatly Mad to the pus etaveddmep if the whale at the statutes es the saltiest were sompthed la sae au of parliament. WWI le net be semi* denhabb thew that all the poehisas Marin an the propseed eeilitia should be eemprkeil ia sae est ? Melt - bear.) Barely it would have bees better if the Mai. and lassoed gentleman sa this essesdea had sat departed frees the wan whisk wee begkalaig to peeved, naaes*, Mod maw Want all the law ea aim particular aest Me we es t, oe Mb meet might be able to Ind eta teltst was die bw, sad hew Ile regulate their goaded. lieleedebea sedge Idea amiledmlitt that the bal should be pee4peased to MANN padismarA. Ifbia they wen at the deseef a par- Il * ammil- , whea • steady dbeelatien wee mmenneed the mbileee-whea it bed beim rembed that the new peallenesat iheabl wail& la the premise wises them arheep were known with es musk sarpiaty as art ammo mob thy did appear to him more re sal respeetful to the country that, whea they were depostbs frees • pod', of awn than thirty years duration, wed woe gel* to embody the militia hem which had bees diematimied ter meek belt a cientary-disma• firmed, tee, because it was so earepubs as not M be bear able say leeeerv-it did appear to Ma mare esseembie that they eleveld kayo the advantage of a seamel studios, and &add know that whatever was Mao by a Mum parliament, would at least have the mseres of the country. (" Hear, hear." and cheers.) It was a most unconstitutional m ode which had been adapted. He wee surprised to hear an boo. member say that there were some questions on which they ought to lmislate without the opinion of the country. He (Mr. M. Gibson) thought that they 1111111 to be governed by public opinion. If their laws were to be in accordance with the opinion of an intelligent community, he could me no reason why they should not postpone the measure to another par liament. Did the government wish to steal a march upon the country? Did they believe that if they appealed to the people they would return members pledged to vote against the bill ? (Hear, hear.) Mauch was to be the course of the government, they might depend upon its causing a feeling of the mast sincere disapprobation on the part of the country. (Hear, MN.) He (Mr. M. Gibson) admitted that there had beam a mush. It was a very, promising panic-.'a laugh)-but he had observed that when a pauic had been most artistically got up, they could not make it last long enough to enable them to pass this measure. (Hoar.) He (Mr. 11. Gibson) lamented to kw the noble lord, the member for Tiverton, speak with such painful accuracy of the mode in which troops could be concentrated at some port in France, of Cherbourg, of the railway to it, which, by the by, had not been made-(laughter) -of the steamers going up to the piers, and the soldiers st,pping on beard. All this might be true-he did not deny the possibility of war • but the question was, whether it wee bewmiag in members of the English House of parliament to attribute secret and unworthy designs to nations - Y y'.. it W a kid • by her Majesty's government. Mr. B. said that es he understood the gees ties i e i ls 5A1th...1 . , „ ,..i...th a ey were part of :; , o e w met to peace i,l d i s c uss ibhm the' i of this i eenntre hon. gentlemen who opposed the preempt bill saminid that the present state of our defences , was arentishatary and that some addition was necessary. ' But Ohne, like the right hon. gentleman who had just spoken, took higher grounds, and denied the necessity of say such teenage. They said that there was no fear of external danger, end that a militia was as TO force. He, on the contrary, looked upm a ire li s essentially a peace measure. (Hear, heir) The right hon. gentlemen said that all their former militia bills were formed in OM a war; but if he (Mr. Herbert) recollected rightly, the right hon. gentleman was mistaken Is that respect Mie ant militia bill of 1780 was not passed La war, but at the osousweeement of peace, and at the con clusion of the Americo& war—Omar, hand—and the act of Cleo. 111., to which he se ellen Wined, was not passed during war, but at tks aciedegien of war in 1902, pens having Wise giant he 1801. They bed too much of hostile angles, add toe much assamplism of hostile inten tion. (Hean, _kw.) Ile believed list those assumptions 11 1.110 1111121111.0111 esti extremely Weakling, because every *atlas was the best judge of Its owe sena (Hear.) lie believed that peat evil had been canoed is a neighbouring coastry by these criticisms. It was the benne= of the of that country to decide what form of government vend support and tolerate, and he saw so reason to Ct il des that they were satisfied with their present pition, and with the person who filled the highest eller these. (Hear, hear.) With regard to diplomacy, he slashed more importance to it. The government of the sesatry wag responsible for the safety of the country, eel they would be_Justly condemned and punished if they did net vide sufficiently for its security. (Hear.) Now he hard two successive governments, who were the best ,jes In this matter, saying that a militia was necessary, ma that beteg the ease he was not willing to take upon Isiensiethe responsibility of refusing assent to the appeal whin they wade. (Hear, hear.) No one could deny that the 'anodes of steam made the possibility of invasion wake. Wore that, with a west wind blowing for thisminarters of a year in this country—(much laughter)— the observation was, perhaps, unfortunate at the prese nt time, when an east wind hail been blowing for near a quo- , ter of the year, but as three-quarters of the year were to pass by, his observation might still prove correct. (Rear, , Year .) But before the invention of steam, and with a west triad generally preuiling here, the inhabitants of the gout might sleep in secunty and in peace. He was dia. I posed to believe that their navy was never more efficient this ft was now. But the navy of Franco, which was neat to their own in strength, was more concentrated, and k check be recollected that there were greater facilities for k= ng troops from oae point to another. The ports, lee which a French force might be expected to sail inn less distant from the coast of England than the glean along the coast, where our troops were disposed, were distant from each other. Now, supposing that the first and safest line of defence—their navy—was broken throngh,they most consider what force they had to meet an enemy landed on the shores of this country. The hon. member for Montrose had moved for a return, which showed that the numbers of troops on full pay was 61,000, and 7,000 artillery. But the number of men on full pay did not convey a correct idea of the available forces, for there were a great many to be deducted from that amount. What the hon. member should have moved for was the number of rank and file, and not the number on full pay. (lieu, hear.) There were 16,000 pensioners, of whom only 0,000 or 10,000 - -in Ens' - ' There w•-• .. with whom we woe On friendly terms? '' Were they _.. l y 9,000 or 10,t.... were in England. .e were constantly to have these stupid inaeadoes thrown out for 14,000 volunteer yeomanry ; marines ashore 6,000, but in the purpose of outing alarm? (Hear, hear.) What ease of a war they would be marines afloat, so that they should we think if, us the aerate of same friendly country, would not be available on land. Then there was the coast persons were always kariting nefarious designs and intro- guard ; but in the event of a war they would be more than tions to us ? He was ennvineed that it would create any- ever required to protect the revenue. He did not believe thing but (deadliness, aid would rather foster feelings of that a man of the dock-yard battalions could be spared retaliation. We always did understand a great deal more from the ships' sides in time of war. The Irish constabu about what was good for France than they did themselves; buy, amounting to 10,000, would bo required in Ireland, and we always knew better what was going on in that mutt. for Ireland might be used by an enemy to make a diversion; kg Om the 36 inHilemsof the French people did themselves. and the metropolitan police, consisting of 7,000, would It was Irks certain that the less we meddled with their probably remain at their beats in London. (Laughter.) lentituthme said dlseeneed sad expatiated on the forms of There was no mention made in the return of the rural rivernoisag WWI he the French people, the better it police, the gamekeepers, and the gentlemen who had /would be Ike lame "morally. (Hear, hear.) What licenses to shoot, but they were just as available was our reithe in 1803, when everybody knew that as those whom ho had just mentioned. (Hear, hear.) • war was inevitable—for every one felt that the He would now state the available force which they did of Makes would be of short duration. In thou really possess. He deducted from the 67,000 men on fell emdtement, at the opening of that year, the pay 2'2,000 men who were in Ireland, and who would be Es of lbrus et all arms employed in Greet . Britain only required in that country more especially in case of hostility. amemiled to 60,674—infantry, cavalry, and artillery, That left 45,000, from whom there was a further reduction The neglit ambusador had been insulted in Paris ; to be made of one•seventh on account of casualties, duet , he bad returned to England; the whole community knew teens, recruits, servants, &e. This left 38,500. He must that war was inevitable; and yet it was not till a week next deduct 5,000 for the Channel Islands and the hone after Lord Whitworth left Pans ' and when the war was artillery, which left 29,000. Add pensioner , 8,300, which esnain, that a bill w was introduced into the House of Corn- would give a force of 37,300 men. But then he must deduct mew by the Secretary at War for calling out the regular the men required for the defence of their ports and arsenals, militia. The bill quickly passed through ell its stages; and Dover, 2,000, which was less than the number stated as • Inset military movement began throughout the country. requisite by the Duke of Wellington; Plymouth, 5,000 ; (Saw, bear.) We did very well then • but where was the Portsmouth, 5,000; Pembroke, 3,000; for the Thames, nersessity . for dealing with our mili tary defences in the Sheerness ' Chatham, Woolwich, Deptford, Purflect, and gene spirit as they were dealt with at that eventful period ? Tilburg, 10,000. Thus there were 25,000 to be deducted Show the people of England that this country was in from t e 37,000, which left 12,000 infantry of the line. danger, and he wound undertake to say, they (Hear, hear.) Add the cavalry and horse artillery, and would do as they had done before—that they would give they had 17,227 regular, which was the real disposable the executive the means of maintaining the independence and available force of the country. (Hear, hear.) And it of the country, and that there would be no reluctance in was not to be supposed that this was a picked force, ready providing the forces necessary for the safety of the country. to march in any direction, for it was made up of th e depots But the people of England knew there was • d a nger of both at home and abroad, and composed of men called another kind, which had never been mentioned in these together, but not accustomed to act together. (Hear, debates. Admitting that invasions end wars a ere possible, hear.) The noble lord said that he would have no ob there was another possibility ;if they gave the executive a jeetion to an embodied militia of 10,000 men. Now, larger disposable military power than the circumstances of there were objections to a militia, and there were ob the country required, who knew what might be the tone jections to a standing army, but be must say that the assumed by that executive in its foreign relations? . (Hear, plan which the noble lord would sanction combined all the hear.) Give the executive the power of garrisoning the objections to both the others. There were some of the United Kingdom with a militia force and who knew, when members of that house—and some, too, who held economi gdt that m k.d some 30,0 00 or 40,000 dispos a ble cal views—who preferred an increase of the regular army whom they could send here or there campaigning, to the enrolment of a militia. He must confess that this wears lbw Webs not assume a tone in dealing with proposal of a militia seemed to change the views of these kellais orierelse that might bring about the very gentlemen with respect to the standing army. (Hear.) wet we were so anxious to avoid? (Hear, hear.) The lie regretted that the bill was not a consolidating bill, &erg le thus suggested was shown to be reasonable, be- because he thought it would be of the greatest advantage to came ese hod taken the coarse of interference in former have all the militia acts reduced to one. (Hear, hear.) times. AM, history, and experience showed that it was There were some other points which he thought objection. dawns to entrust the executive of England with too able; but as they were matters of detail he would not dis hrag • military power; and these were no facts or cape- cuss them on that occasion. It might be an improvement rhemile show that, without cause, England had ever been to substitute the ballot system. By not asking for too segielleed by a sudden invasion from some friendly power. many m nin the first instance he thought they might get Alla% lam) it was extremely doubtful how this policy the force required almost invariably by volunteering. stems might be viewed by foreign nations. He entirely (Hear, hear.) The experience of 18®, 1810, 1811, egged with the late Homo Secretary in considering a 1812, and 1830, showed that • militia might be regular militia an offensive force. Three or four years ago, raised by bounty, tad with success. (Hear, bear.) he was at Cherbourg; it was during the time of the pro- Without giving any opinion as to the details of the videlliel goverment in France ess b =greatest bill, he thought that on the principle of it a militia wasthe dimity in pmeneding alt am wee not best means of creating that peace establishment which was likel s io sa inteedree with the OF rod r- elastic enough to adapt it to circumstances of necessity, and treigke• the . .) he, therefore, gave this measure his hearty support. He M i ad his 1111 pepsine TM ) and looked upon it as an insurance upon property, upon in ked sash ashherie la Or :at that he dusky, upon honour, upon everything that constituted the duelled IA 11111 OM MOW* . AM/ were national welfare, and if they were not willing to pay for it 11111110111. all, or the great sopority of bet taken they did not deserve their national blessings. They had *sat* etellegkesee, and the 61. WOW, aeke their already advertised their fears, and having so done if they 111.111111 WI. ("aear,"sedlanghter.) Be the gene- fell hack without making an attempt to remedy the evil eon% mien spirit of the noble lord— (a lamOlbut he could which they themselves had proclaimed they would be see guise aphstige pith bin. if this were free, what was guilty of treason to the state. (Cheers.) the use of being so pertlmiktrebest the Mutiny Act ? The Mr. STANFORD said he should support the bill brought army might be allowed te MA mime themselves for two forward as it was by a government in which he had great or throe menthe, after bet filleted and taken the confidence. air oaths. No doubt flak of patriotism would bring Mr. H. BERKELEY objected, on social and moral them all back. Ohm bow.) But how account for the grounds, to calling out the militia. Ile thought the volunteers statement of thei sm, smisher for West Kent, of 800 dater- ought to be encouraged, and drilled in the use of the modern tions from one IMO eiolmsat ? (Hear, hear.) If these rifle, and he thought that the yeomanry should be enrolled men would 'tea the ebb of the severepuntshment of the as rflemen. martial law to get away from their service, was it to be sup- Sir C. BURRELL supported the bill. pond that they would make their appearance when Mr. ROEBUCK felt bound to express his opinion wetted ? Dor/e4uten pen, the theeeters from the army, on this important subject, and he felt it the more Incumbent with eh the Iberfel consequent lemeglig over them, had on him to do so, because two points had been raised, one been se it.. then 63,000 saes. Many might enter the militia of which still remained unsettled. The first point was— with a good resolve to come again ; but after undergoing was there any necessity for warlike preparations at the the tedious and vexatious process of discipline, It was very potent moment ; and next, if there were such necessity, doubtful whether they would not be absent when they what was the best method of meeting it? On the first were wanted. To rely on their coming again was not wise. point these was a great uncertainty of opinion among poll it• member of the Peace Society had said this, be would ticians. The noble lord the member fer London had been havebeeu told he was a dreamer, &Utopian, and had too much of that opinion—(conservative cheers)—gentlemen opposite in the people. (Hear.) lie doubted whether, in now entertained it. He understood immediate necessity to In onanansing districts, they would get the bounty men. mean that the state of affairs abroad was such as to render N. rem dill gimp was to become of • man's family ? immediate steps necessary for the national defence. That ee there any revision for maintaining them while he being the ease, the noble lord, the member for London, megreted his employment to go a soldiering, or would had prepared his militia bill, and having left office another they be thrown on the pour rate—an addition to the bill had been prepared by his successor, and then he (Mr. esolgence already greatly complained of burdens upon land ? (Hear, Roebuck) found the noble lord modifying his original opi. hear.) If this forcible military conscription were sane- nion, end, holding that the necessity was not immediate. honed, pressing in the navy might be justified, in order to Ile must complain of the veiled manner in which this ques give men a short opportunity of learning nautical practice. lion was discussed. lie wanted to know what did the However justifiable this might be in war, it could not be generally admitted necessity arise from ? When men talked so at a time when it was said that all our foreign together privately they came to ode conclusion and by one relations were pacific. Not a single fact could be road. There was only people of whom they spoke, alleged as a reason fur making such preparations. (Hear.) and only one man at whom they pointed. Franco Anything more crude, more unsuited to the present day, was the nation, and the man was her president. (Hear , Aim the provisions of the 42 Geo. lII. ' cap. 90, could not hear.) Let th em recollect that it was the mere seize be conceived. The publicans and beershop.keepers ought dent of Villeneuve not being bold enough to cross the Chan t° be considered; for he had not heard that new barracks nel that prevented Bonaparte's landing in England. That were to be built for this militia. Was it not a grievance was a point which was not to be dealt with lightly. There that the y . should have these 8 0,000 men forced upon them, were 60,000 men which Bonaparte found he could put en at goat Inconvenience, and be obliged to supply them with board his flotilla with facility, but he hail not the Channel provisions at less than their cast ? In every way the for 24 hour.. If he had, he would have landed. But stip measure was an injustice to the publicans and livery peeing him to contemplate the landing now steam would stable keepers; it was demoralising to the young men give him ample time (or his purpose. Gentlemen might who would bo taken from their employment ; and preach peace doctrines, hut was be to take no precautions however it might be suited fur the less advance days against being knocked down end robbed in the street ? of George 111., it was by no means adapted to the days (Hear, hear.) Ile believed, then, that there was danger, of Queen Victoria (Hear, hear.) Reference had been and that it ought to be provided for; but ho did not medic to the American militia ; but the right hon. Secretary agree with the noble lord the member for London for the Colonies was mistaken as to the militia law of that that a militia was tho best mode. The best mode country. It was nothing but a muster of the able-bodied would he, in his opinion, first to make our own army and inhabitants; there was no ballot—practically, no compel. navy properly available. Ile believed we had a large per sem ; for no one need go who could pay an inconsiderable tion of our navy cruising in the Mediterranean, and he fine-75 cents. Their militia was only a muster for asked what did they there ? It was sod that France wished three, and nut consecutive, days in the year—one in to make it a French hike ; but what interest had England spring, ono in the middle of the year, and one in lin keeping up such armament ? Why, if England was in autumn, so as to interfere least with the general hue. ' danger, was not the great mass of our naval force in the new of the country. Any one who was earning more Channel ? (Hear, hear.) Again, he wanted to know why than he thought it worth while to sacrifice, might, by were our colonies so governed as to require large military paying a very small line, avoid going altogether. lit the estehlishments ? When those two questions were answered, sic New England states, this militia had been positively I he wanted to know what would be the hetet mode of meeting laughed out of existence, and could hardly be said to exist at I immediate danger. lie believed that fighting was like any all. Es en the army of the United States was only 9,000 men, ; other trade, best performed by those who were bred to it ; spread over that itameme milli/teat from California to; therefore if additional foree were required, he would prefer an Maine. A native of the United States said that though lie ' increase in the regular army, rather than a militia. hail lived there many years, and travelled in almost all • lie should prefer a skeleton of an army of 10,000 or 12,000 I parts of the country h e Itiel neveneen 'soldier in the United , men, which with volunteers might soon be made up to the States uniform, and could not tell what it was. (Laughter) I necessary number. Again, why not accept the services of Ile did not believe the militia there had any uniform. the ride corps, which would have given 100,000 men. Ile hoped this measure might be defeated, and, as he did ^ (Hear, hear.) l'hose who had come forward were mm not oi.ls to be misunderstood, in the present position of 1 with their own rifles, and of that claw which could most this country, and in the present state of their relations with safely he trusted. These with skeleton regiment' might foreign elates, lie del not think that it was necessary to add easily be enlarged to an imposing force in the event of any et all to our piesent military force, and, if it were, the manifestation from France. These were his reasons for Wt mode which he should he willing to adopt was the plan ' opposing the bill. Ile believed in the existence of danger, but be did net think the bill offered the prol-7—..---"'er sart defence. Mr. WALPOLE said that two objections had been made to his measure—one faintly and the other boldly, hut nei ther quite fairly. In the first place, the necessity for such a measure aa this had been denied ; and secondly, it was con tended that, assuming the necessity, this was nut the mode nor the present the time in which the object could be 111.1 t CU. rind out. It was proved in the first place, by even th e admis sion of the gallant general who opposed this hill , that, in tn e opinion of the highest naval and military authorities, sum s measures should ire taken to improve the defences of the country. Secondly, it was proved by the acts of a succes sion of administrations, who, as soon as th e d uty n cup upon them of providi n g , for the defence of the coutry , had seen that, in order to ensure its probetion, mgag fast_ ther measures should be adopted ; and thirdly, it was peev e d by the circumstance which had been more than o ne , alluded to by the noble lord the member for Tiverton namely, the discovery of 'deem, and its application to navigation, by which the means of incursion, it not of att. vision, were brought far more within the range of ph i . bility than before ; and the consequence was, that no navy, however powerful and numerous, alone, and without the co-operation of tend forces, was able to protect the country against invasion, and the hon. and learned tenth man the member for Sheffield admitted that that was the case. Those were the reasons by which the necessity of som e measures of defence was proved. But it had been said by the hon. and gallant general who move.' the amendment that that necessity could be met either by the redistriti. thin or the concentration of our present force in this country, or else by withdrawing some of our troopittinnt the coteries. That was the argument by which this necessity was met, lie (Mr. Walpole) owned that he was swells: d that an officer of experience should advance such an opinion, although he should not have been surprised if a civilian had put 60,000 men upon paper, and then talked of trusting t, them to defend the country against an equal French force. But the hon. and gallant general knew wall that in such an emergency you could not denude !rebind of Imolai any more than you could this country, and that you were Masud to protect bath. Twenty thousand men must remai n in De land ; and with regard to the coast guard, as had been said that evening by the rielit hon. nticmen the member for Wiltshire, they must be employed to protect the revenue in time of war u well an in peace. Sir D) L. SFASS was understood to dissent. _ _ . Mr. WALPOLE—If the hon. 1014 :!:,11ant Uitiell had a o t said so, the hon. gentleman, the moonier for kielamond, who seconded the =ointment, hail. 'f hen with regard to the 10,000 dockyard battalions, they also must lee kept foe R the defence of the establishments towhich they belonged, and ter which they were embodied. Ile (Mr. Welp e o, therefore, maintained that the statement he had made in proposing the bill was not exaggerated, and it would be n u a : Ty ew. argument Westminster, r rh - duiT t a The urged seen, by any gentleman who would take the trouble to go through the figures as carefully as he had done, that he had e member ratheroa w ed hy w m ith t n' to e l " re m la ' nd a , hotnh.e am oun t,and f e il ote colonies . fe torrth,,etph extremities trd e e,h. s mfo : n m ni cei e e: sf of w btty e hb ani withdrawal; m o t p y u i n a d i, c l d s . would not be able to get together 2.5,000 ler the defence of e e or the soc y hr o i ro u :y r n o n f ur e t : h o t cr u f a l r o u d t e m o n ,: o t h o t fended any more than you could its centre. lle had now proved that it could not be met either by the redistribUti a ea of our forces from the colonies. Something had been said in the course of the debate with regard to the best way of meeting such dangers being by eneourasi . ine and promoting commerce and the ar s of peace. They were all for peace if it could be had, hut lie agreed with the bun. and learned member for Sheltie Id, that the best way to maintain peace was to be prepared for war, and there was no ether way by which it could be maintained. Assuming the neces sity of defence as proved, as had been said in the mune of the evening by the right hon. gentleman, tl.e member fur Coventry, what were the best means by which that was to be provided for. Several means had been suggested. Some hon. members had suggested a large ince, am of tbo navy, others had spoken of an increase of the army. The hon. gentleman, the member for Richmond, had suggested a large addition to the force of pensioners. An hon. and gallant general had proposed the adoption of volunteer corps, and the noble lord the member fer London desired that recourse should be had to the local militia. With re gard to the increase of the navy. Mr. ROEBUCK was understood to say he only 'poke of lan increase of the army. Mr. WALPOLE—If the question of an increase of the navy was left out of consideration, he would go on to that of an increase of the army. That arsument had been an• swered over and over again in the teem of the debate. Suppose the government hail proposed en addition of 2U,000 men to the army. (Ilear, hear.) What would ham been said ? It would have been said—here is Co unecadi tutienal ministry—hem are people who propose to increase the array, who desire to assert a military poiser in the coun try. (Hear. hear.) That was the way in which they would have bcen met, and the argument that the army ought to be increased had only heea used because it era thought that it might amid in defeating the bill. There were two objections to that course which in his (Mr. Walpole'l mind were unanswerable. If we went on inereosiog the army, other nations would do the tame, and so they would all go on increasing their forces to an extent which would seriously circumscribe the resources of the country. (Hear hear.) The second objection, and it 19.4/4 one which had been often urged in the debate, was that the (louse of Com mons would not permit for mauy rare the existence of a large army unless it resold he shown that such an army was really wanted, and was required for • permanent purpose, and not as in the cast of r. militia, to meet an emergency which perhaps might never come. Those were the grounds on which he (It Walpole) justified the establishment ofa mi litia in preference to an increase of the army. 'l'hen,woth re gard to the next point, namely, a large incenses of armed pensioners. In England there were about 43,000 pensioners. But what was their age ? Many of them load become pensioners in consequence of bodily infirmity or from wounds, and whet was the average aged the men on which they w, re rooked to rely, and the forte which they composed, and which they were asked to in crease ? Why, out of 43,000 pensioners there were not mow more than 1,860 who were under the age of forty-six ; the greatest number were above that age, while of those who were above seventy there were 4,850. (Hear, hear.) The next point which had been urged was the encouragement of volunteer corps Now, the great object to be attained was a force which could he per manently relied on, and they ought to be able to secure a body of men ou whom they could reckon for the whole time for which they enlisted, otherwise they would not be trained and disciplined. Now, volunteers would be a fluc tuating body, and they could nut be reckoned on Mr a par ticular period, as they might at any time give up the sere vice. No doubt they might be relied on so long es their enthusiasm and patriotism were roused toya SCJI4C of Immediate danger; but when that sense of danger owed away, the necessity for volunteering passed away with it, and therefore such a body could not be relied on. It was always a popular topic to talk of the spirit and courage of the people, and that it could be relied on if an enemy were lamde this country. But every one would remember the words of the Duke of Wellington, in his celebrated letter, when he said, "We hear much of the 'mint anti i courage of the people of England, and I have the highest respect for it; but while unorienniei•d, undisciplined, and not subject to subordination, if they were opposed to the muskets and sabres of disciplined troops, they would only be exposed, although animated be the highest spirit and courage, to confusion and destruction." He (Mr. Walpole) now approached the laic proposition he had mentioned, that of the noble lord the member for Lou don, who had urged his own plan, that of a local militia. The noble lord must forgive him if he said that he bad coloured his own plan too highly, and thrown their- too much into the shade. The noble lord said that the plan of the government was oppressive and snore, but his was net; that by theirs the men would not be well diacipliueol, while by his they would; that by hie plan men of spirit and courage, and of moral energy, would be procured, while by theirs only vagabonds would he obtained, who would take the bounty and not be forthcoming when they were re quired. He (Mr. Walpole) should he sorry to do away with Any impression which that statement might have male, but lie thought it would not be borne out by a comparison of the two measures. By the plan of the nooble l n 1 every man vras subject to the ballot unless volunteers offered who were caught by the bribe of three years' ser vice, instead of four. By the plan of the government there was to be no ballet, at least in the first instance, and the en rolment was to be purely voluntary. The Ilion, the newt*. of the noble lord in that respect seas the more severe of the two. Again, by the noble lord's plan, the men were to be drawn, a limited number in the first year between the ages of 18 and 23, and in the succeeding years between 21 cad 23. By the plan of the government, if they got to tho ballot, which he (Mr. Walpole) did not believe they ever would, they were drawn tor a period extending from IS yearn old to 33. Little reasoning was necessary to show that pressure on a small moue VMS more resent than whea spread over a greater one. (Cheers.) Then with nod to their di , cipline. lie was astonished when he heard the noble lord hazard that assertion. He (Mr. Wahoolo) had referred to Hansard, end he found that his recellectien of the noble lonl's stoitement on a former occasion was correct. According to the noble lord's plan, the men were to be drilled for 28 days in the first year, and for 14 days in the following years. By the plan of the government, the ordinary period of training was to be 21 days, but a Incas was given, if necessary, to extend it to seven weeks , bat there was also another power, by which if so lone a training was not found necessary or there was a demand for labour or any such cause it might he reduced to only them days. Ile thought, therefore, that the discipline under the government plan was likely to be as good as under that of the noble lord. With regard to the coursge, spirit, and moral energy of the men raised under the plan of the neblo lord, and the vagabond characte r of those who would be raised by thnt of the government, he should heeled to Imow how the noble lord proposed by his plan to get only me:I . !! courage, spirit, and moral energy. The plan of the nolo s lord was that of resting by lot, and the lot might ea the weak as well as the strong, on the immoral as well 94 4b: moral—(hear, hear)—and what guarantee there was the . by means of the ballot men of high courage , of me t al principle, would be secured, he (Mr. Wellt` . ) could not conceive. But by the plan 01 .e. government, hold and enterprising men would be Ms tam likely to offer themselves; and if proper guards and loess tions were provided with regard to their taking the beauty, they were not so likely to cheat as those who wen men east for by lot. it had been said over and over ag ain ha course of the dehete; as will as ontsiole the wall. house, that you would be throwing away a/. or.:;, .D% t• men would came and take it, and when it woe epee.'''' decamp, and that there would be no eccuriii diet .h„,c3: would appear when they were required for %4 as V.. I , who made those etatements ought to read the bill. li did so, they would tind that bounty was to he g." m' bi t vs' , soul Seel bon' or I son' veil art stc Tic