The Express. — London, England, 1853-02-18 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT ROUSE OF LORDS.—TtIntODAV, FEB. 17. The Loan Citaxcatkos took his seat at i o'clock. PETITIONS PRESENTED. P•111.1•1111PITult/ PAPSILS.—By the Earl of CAR LISLE, from York, Shipley, Holinstorte, Cumberland, Braintree, awl several pieces in Ireland and Scotland, en favour of the free distribution of parliamentary papers. CANADA CLIUOT Reaaavies.--Alim from the Scottish Anti-State Church Society, in favour of the government measure relative to the Canada Clergy Reserves. TRANSPORTATION. Lord hIONTEAGLE said it was rumoured that it was the intention of the government to introduce some measure for the total suppression of transportation to Australia. lie thought, however, that it must be a mistake, es it would neither be beneficial to, or desired by, the people of Western Australsr. Perhaps the noble duke would favour him with woo. reformation on the oubj.c.t. The Duke ut NE W CASTLE felt obliged to his noble friend for basing put 1... c question to him, as he was aware that there had been considerable misapprehension abroad as to what fell from has noble trieud the Secretary for Foreign Affairs ia the Howie of Commons last week, is announcing the measures about to he introduced by the goverement Before be answered the question of his noble friend, it would perhaps be couvenicat for him to state this position in which this question stood before the accerion of the present government to office. It would be recolketed that at the commencement of the session in the middle of November last, in a speech from the throne, her Majesty recommended that parliament should take into its early consideratiou, whether it would not be desirable, by dotage. iu the law, so to affect the question of secondary punishments as to citable them before long to dispense with transportatien to Van Diemen's Land. Ile found that on the lath of December his predecetior addressed to the go- vernors of the Australian colonies a letter on the subject, In which be stated that the government would be prepared as speedily as possible to abandon transportation to Van Dieutiu's Land. The right hon. baronet stated that it was Inc.:rag to make certain changes in the law as to pri- SOU eccommi.dation and other matters, which prevented him from stating any deflate time at which he could promise that transportation should cease. In succeeding the right hon. gentieni..n in the office of Colonial Secretary it had oc curred to him and other members of the government, that with this promise of the early cessation of transportation to Van Dieunn's Lind, it was necessary to look to the ques tion with a sieve to decide at what particular period they would be able to bring transportation to • close ; and hav ing entered into a communication with his noble friend the Secretary for the Homo Department, they CRON to the conclusion tilt it would be practicable, and being so, most desirable that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should cease at once. Therefore, he had the pleasure of assuring his noble friend, that as regarded Van Diemen's Land, not a single convict more would he sent there. (Hear, hear.) A. regarded Vau Diemen's Land itself, it was a question which had been decided in the colony, that it was time that transportation there ,hould cease ; and looking at the feel ing in that colony and other colonies, so much interested in the discoo.inusace of transportation to Van Diemen's Land, he thought there could be but one opinion as to the propriety Si the course which had been taken by the government. (Hear, hear.) With reference to the ques tion of bowmen:at:on to Western Australia, his noble friend the Home Secretary had been misunderstood, for he did not say that transportation to all the Australian colonies was to cease, but only as.to Van Diemen's Laud. His noble fried (Lord Monteegle) had rightly stated that as regarded Western Australia, so far from its being desirable that transportation should cease, it would be an inconvenience to the colony that it should at once be abandoned. Lord CAMPBELL expressed his earnest desire that transportation should nut altogether cease. lie thought it the beet secondary punishment; and it not only afforded the mast Wooly COILLICII of reforming the convict, but it was the only means of ridding the community of drilnilliu The sentence, he could say from experience, produstil doe deepest sensation not only on the person upon whom it 111111 pronounced but upon all bystanden; and it had &Desertion. a most salutary effect. He believed that no length of in. prisounient that could he inflicted in this country wail give the slightest chance of reforming the convict. Ho Mil conversed with • great many eminent lawyers and statesmen in France, and they were all of opinion that their mode of secondary punishment was much inferior IS ours. They envied us our colonies, because we could transport our convicts to them. His noble and learned friend near him knew that fact better than he did. Lord BROUGHAM said that some little change was taking place in the opinion of reflecting and well informed persons in France on this subject ; and where it had been thought that transportation, or deportation, was • butter mode of puoishmsrt than the galleys, there was a dis position to reconsider the subject. The great hulk of opinion, however, continued to be the same. If their lord ships would only look to the proceedings of the criminal courts of any part of France, they would find that a con siderable portion of the criminals were persons who had been condemned to the frositwoux forces, and had been turned adrift un society again. Lord ST. LEONARDS did not think that any secondary punishment was so good as transportation, but the goes. tioa was whether it could be maintained, as the colonists objected to receive -ematiorts. There wen Bermuda, Gibraltar, and other places still open where convicts might be employed on public works. He hoped the government would net carry into execution the abolition of the punish ment of trsusportation beyond the necessity of the case. After a few words in explanation from the Duke of New- CASTLE the subject dropped. ALTERATION OF THE STANDING ORDERS. Lord REDESDALE moved the following alteration in standinc order No. 185 : In line 34 of the said order leave out " prosy fur the use of each proprietor," and insert "form of proxy, with proper instructions for the use of the some; and the same form of proxy and the same Justine tilos, and none other, shall be sent to every such proprietor; but no such form el proxy shall be stamped, nor shall the funds of the company be seedier the stamping any proxies, except the company shall at • general mooting determine othereise, in which amaa-stamped prosy shall be sent to each proprietor, with math instructions as aforesaid." After • few words from Lord ST/SILTY of ALDZILIT, the motion was agreed to. THE WAR IN AVA. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH amid that to obligee the noble earl at the headefthe he b , 11fl" , further to postpone his media at use Went of the war in Ava until Thursday med. THE LORD LIEUTENANCY OF IRELAND. The Earl of CARDIGAN, pursuant to notice, rose to eel whether bar Majesty's goverement intended to tarry into effect the ameenesnent made by the Secretary of State for Fang& Lairs, when Fiat Lord of the Tres eery, of his imeatioa to do away with the allot of Lad Lieutmeat of helm! ? The Red of ARRADIBEN, before answering the sable ail, mold en think k w : l mam a te eater into an inquiry SS 111 hew far it might be ea or t not to abolialt the an be lieSedia ; MR he tooth uppaoan the mama eummena whim *amble earl had described. No doubt ibe Minn is tebidi be bed alluded bed sampied the at tention eimellemest NM of this loses more or hoe (re =but eshonmenight have bons the °pinkie of hi. sod and 2. Ransil), his iateatioe as to the aboli tion of the else bed Mee abandoned before he left the ollenies he bed bell se the heed of the IOVOTIMIOSR Wbeerver Wen base ham the reasons which had induced lbe pommel. it Mimi with m much armies in the sister lienetry, that Nap Master of the sort described by the noble earl as lady to Mead the abolition of the olio Wald net havemenemened ler the ill-will and enmities be aldiih it wadi bum gnus sise. (Hear, beer.) His noble blind bed Ibenelbee ohendened the proposal ; and 11 (Lord Abeam) man beg loam n say, ear=n at the sisk of loam the eatery wean of the sable earl, that be was afraid he shield not be abbe to meet his ezpeetatieses. (Hear, hear.) No doubt his mess= maid law bad is •idtwasateill more weight with his w noble he ad et Derby thee ith him the Earl of Abse Mend leis (s ), mil be that the noble ( WI had not seem the last year Mae the need they bud just heard. (lambeer.) As the nulls sad bad put the meal" what wee the iatentioe of bee ms's portent 'overman, he (the Earl of Aber deen) meld answer without say lessitatioe that they had no inteetiss Ie abolish the ones of Lord Lieutenant of Ire- laad. The Earl of WICKLOW was amok Misprinted at the sewerer of the noble earl for whenever manes there might sees have exerted for the. lk% raabased mate of the essminunicatioas between the two sennteiss vandheed it now Quite unnecessary. At all events, be these* Ise *pleal. peptise of gamey ought not to be hstrnerd Is the L.ed Lientesaat ; and ea event whisk bed ressady mennei was an edditional reason why the preeepthe awed be atlmainl thenrown The Earl of DESART, on the asanw, Hartaght that an 'Moe which had been found et pest value for 600 ears, ought not to be abolished Incept some =me nbeteatfal ad- Tantrum could be derived, than bad been pointed see by the noble earls who had addressed thsir kiweldps. The benevolent sad patriotic serving et Lad Resismeregh. in Is4B, of Lord Clarendon • die MOM meted et aid lastly of the Earl of whose edminie Vallee had bees carried ea with W osentesy, humanity, simplicity sad liressean whids MIS bed ealealated te en sure the afection sal gaped of the Ida people, men to make them panes, as they atlempME te dram so amigo an inetitatim. LAW REFORM. Lord BROUGHAM having laid on the table a bill, the abject of which was to extend to Scotland the now law of evidence, allowing parties saiag se being seed to be wit nesses in their own case, expressed his repel that Ms noble and learned friend on the wades* ahead have mirk his statemeat on law reforms in his (Lord Brisegbanal) ab mace, because, as the noble and learned lord had thought proper to attack his (Lord Brougham's) measures, he felt t: necessary on the first opportunity to defend them. No doubt it wu very gratifying to the friends of law reform to see the fortes of the government directed to that subject ; bat when they found those forces going neither backward nor forward, but merely performing the operation of "marking time," the circumstance might well excite their sirepicioas. He was afraid that thers : 2 something in the statement of the noble and I lord that looked like " marking time." The m which the noble lord had announced were extreasely sellable ; but of these the mat important was the digest of the law. He (Lord Brougham) must say, that the conduct of the late Lord Chancellor, in adopting tk• di. gait of ertmindlaw, recommended by the Criminal Law Com mission, had bas Lord Brougham's) warmest approbation. With respect to trial, G l forbid that lie wished to abolish it. Nor was that proposed. What was proposed was, that in certain came the parties should hap an option tied i< I was not proposed that they should have tie option, even, in cases of tort. Ile admitted that it. would require great ' consideration VI to the extent to *hi& the mattellingehl he carried. But what had experience shown is tom ; Smarts ? Why that in only 3 ceases in* of 100 had iviait 'es chosen to have their cases tried by a juxy. He ho that his noble and lentried friend (the Lord Chancellor)'would apply himself to other matters as well as those to which ho adverted in his speech, and that they would have the benefit of his noble and learned friend's great learning, hi - experience, and his sound rational views. The LORD CHANCELLOR said he eould enure their lordships, and his noble and learned friend in particular, that no one more regretted than he did that he felt bound to maks his statement at a time when it happened that his noble and learned friend was not present in the house, but be thought it necessary to inform their lordships, ea anon as possible, and through their lordship the country, what the intentions of the government were. Perhaps if he had known that his noble and learned friend would have been s., early in the home, he might have made the statement somewhat later. He regretted his noble and learned friend was not present, because, amongst other reasons, he was quite persuaded he would have felt that he exhibited no intention to march in time instead of chancing, but that be desired to advance, as he was sure his noble and learned friend would wish him to do, safely and aecarely, though always getting forward. Surely it was not merely march ing time when he announced his attention of going on with the Registration Bill and with the Charity Bill of two sessions ago—not exactly the same bill, but that bill amended, and which was in such a state of progress, that he hoped in a short time to lay it before the house ; and when he announced his intention of proceeding at once with a digest of the statute law. With regard to the ob eervations he was eupposcd to have made as to the measure under the consideration of the Common Law Com misaioners for the abolition of trial by jury, he certainly did not expre s what he meant, or he was mistindenzood. He only said that the subject deserved the greatest consi deration ; because, though many questions, such as com mon debts, might be well decided without a jury, yet he had seen at the assizes the beneficial effects of trial by jury, and he thought they ought not to make any change en that subject without the greatest consideration. He could only say, in conclusion, that, in common with the lest of their lordships, he felt the great debt which the country owed to the noble and learned lord (Lord Brougham) for the seal with which he bass always addressed himself to these sub jects, and he should receive with the greatest mention aay auggestioas which the noble and learned lord might make. The bill was then read a first time, and their lordship adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Tnuasom, FEB. 17. The &main& tonic the chair at the 'noel hour. GENERAL COMMITTEE OF ELECTIONS. A report from this committee was presented, stating the memben who had been nominated to serve on the election commit.ess in the cams of Blackburn and Clitherm. The names have been already pubbshed. ARREST AND DISCHARGE OF A MEMBER. The SnarIAIMAT.ARMS announced that, insursuaace of the resolution come to by the boars yesterday, he had the member for Orkney (Mr. Dundas) in his euvedy. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY stated that the hon. member had been detained by illness at Paris ; but as soon as he heard that he was wanted to serve on the Bridgnorth elect tiu committee, he lost no time in histening here. Mr. It. PALMER said he thought he was justified, by the eircumscances of the cue, in moving that the hon. member should be discharged out or custody without pay ing the Ices. As illness had been the cause of the boa. gentleman's absence he did sot anticipate thatany objection would be made to this motion. _ _ Sir R. INGLIS said it would be an unusual and an un. precedented course to oppose such a motion. But, at all events, he would cab the attention of the house to the fact that all members were bound, whether in Paris, in Ork ney, or in London, to take notice of their obligations to that house. Illness was a ground of absence which no member would hesitate to entertain ; but it was fitting that every member should know that his first duty in that house was the public service, and that any neglect of that duty, on the part of any individual member, necessarily ex posed hisfellow-enemben to very oonaiderable inconvenience and expense. Mr. BOUVENIE observed that if the hon. member for Orkney was ill, of course it was inspouible that he should be able to attend ; bet he must say he thought it was the duty of that hon. member, knowing that he was on the penel of service, and that he was unable to attend, toned notice of his illness, and that he was in consequence unable to be present. The inconvenience thus imposed on mem bers was very great ; and not only so, bat very great ex penes and inconvenience were entailed upon t►e parties. Of course, if the hen. member's illness was such that he was unable to attend, and he was detained at Paris in con sequence, not only could the committee not be sworn, but they might be discharged ; all the proceedings might have to be taken over again, and the witnesses kept in town' from Beidgnorth at a considerable expense. He quite agreed to this motion ; but in similar cases, in future, he should take care to be one to oppose the discharge of mem bers without paying the feu. The motion was then agreed to. NEW WRIT. Oa the weenie ol Lord HOT/1•11 • BOW writ MY Oro dered for West Worcestershire, 10. place of General Lysol:, called to the upper Num. BRIDONORTEI ELECTION COMMITTEE . The members of this committee, including Nr. DVXDAII, then appeared at the table, and were sworn. Several private bills were introduced. THE DIPRESS, FRIDAY EVE;fINO,, FEBRUARY 18, PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. Iscoas Tax.—By Sir J. HAMMER, from Holywell, for a revision of the income tax. By Sir R. INGLIS, from holders of terminable annuities, and Mr. BROTHER TON, hose the City of London Life Aseunnce Company, against the income tax on these annuities. LITTSA-CAMMIZILd.—By Mr. COBDEN, from letter-car riers of Settle • en HON. MEMBER, from • place in Donegal, comp la ining of the letter-carriers' grievances ; and a number of other petitions to the like effect; Mr. WHALLY, from the letter-curlers of Newton, Montgo meryshire, praying for relief. ADMISSION or IlWil TO PAISLIAMINT. —By Mr. SMYTH, from Centenary, against- Tait MADIAL—By Mr. COBDEN, from inhabitants of London, for interference in this ans. Tax= ON KNOWLED42II.—By Mr. COBDEN, from Lastiogham, in Yorkshire, against then taxes. Conine IL•rus.—By Mr. COBDEN, from the guardians of the Thorne Unin, for control over the county_ rates. PAILLIAMINTAZT Mr.DAVISON,frons the Chamber of Commerce, Belfast, praying that they may be furnished with copies of the reports and other parliaman. tory papers, mon especially those relating to trade and ma nufacture ; Mr. BROCKMAN, from the Hythe Reading Society, for the same sitgeet. CONSOLIDATID AxstrlTln Ace.—By Sir T.BURILE,from the guardians of the Toast Union, county of Galway, pray ing for the r9eal of. CATSTAL oxrcs.—By Lord D. STUART, from • body of We ; and by Mr. RICE, from Dover; against the opening of the Crystal Palace on Sunday. Cass or EDWARD lifuza•r.—By Lord D. STUART, from Marylebesie L for pennant interference in this case. Mitvnoont.—By Mr. SPOONER, from aplain in Mostgonteryshin complaining of priestly Intimidation at elections in Ireland, and for the withdrawal of the May- &nth grant. Law or Srrrintencr.—By Mr. W. BROWN, from a Board of Guardians in Lancashire, for some alteration of the salon charges in cases of settlement. CounTs 01 Law AT Wisinntifsran.—By Lord R. GROSVENOR, ham the Law Society of Greet Britain, for the remind of the courts of law fres their present site to a more otevenisat locality. The petition set out at great length the ineaveniene of the @listing courts, and stated that the chambers of the sound' and judges sad the red deems of the attorneys were situated at • great distan after dace ken the netts, in son-equance of whin, day y, appointments were made which meet be postponed, and very great injury and expense were Indicted on the clients. Hor DUTY —By Mr. EWART, from some extensive hop growers, praying that the duty might be levied by weight instead of Innis.-73 1 ; a rr. HOME, from native inhabitants of Madras, asking to be heard by themselves, by their repro- Gestating, or their agents, before the committee of Wien territories. SECOND READINGS. The Great Eatrasearal Cemetery Association Bill end the Gnat Northern Railway (No. 1) Bill were severally read a eeeond Use.. NOTICES OF MOTION. Tai BLLLOT.—.Mr. H. BIZ[MAT, shortly sitar the re ow, to mote for leave to brim is a bill to protect the voters of Great Britala sad Ireland by moans of the ballot. 'amour Doviss.—Mr. HUME, oa the 3rd of March, to briar before the house the question of earryinz out the principles of free trade, with a Vigil to the speedy remission of the ditties still misting of 233 articles of manufacturing aad agricultural produce. Wllll DOTINO.—Mr. OLIVEIRA. pee notice that o• Tisanday, 3rd Mush, he should Wei the slab** sir lin wine duties ander the coasidention Mahe berme, is woo (amity with the maps he gave before*. resin s = I moved that the import duty upon fordo and wines be reduced to one uniform me of one shill*/ per imperial gallon. Tan hunt CZOROR.-10. O. MOORE, on Friday (this diq) r le ask Lud John Russell what are the intentions of t with respect to the established church in _ . Imma.—Mr. HUME, on Thursday next, to move that it be an instroation to the select committee on Indian terri- tones, that they obtain the evidence of natives of India capable of affording full information on the matters con tained in the petition noticed above. Counm or LAW.—Lord A. GROSVENOR, oa Friday (this day), to ask what are the intentions of government with regard to the continuance or removal of the law courts at Westminster. FEES IN COUNTY COURTS. In answer to Mr. CRAUPORD, Viscount PALMERSTON stated that a scale of fees to be taken in County Courts had been prepared, and sub mitted to the Lord' Chancellor in December last; it had since been referred to the judges at Weatesinseer Hall, who still had it under consideratioe. After they had de s rmined upon it it would be published, and would take effect on a day axed by them for that purpose. LIGHTING AND VENTILATION OF THE HOUSE. Sir DE L. EVANS asked whether sny steps were taking to amend the present defective lighting of the house, and to remove the unseemly lights from the ceiling. Si, W. MOLESWORIii said he mast admit that the system. a lighting the Meuse was Dot *hat could be de airettodid that the lights from thin v ow s w er e imew i n t 'unseemly. He had consulted the meroben of the Lighting Committee, and also Mr. Gurney . ; whose system a lighdag the old Muse had gives gi eat satisfaction. He thought the preeentastbod might be improved without much dllioulty or expense, add tie hoped 'they sbould be able to accent plish that object by the Easter recess. Lord D. STUART said he should be glad to be informed under whose control the ventilation of the house was pieced—(bear, hear)—and whether the right hon. baronet would snot think it proper to place the ventilation and light ing under one control? Sir W. MOLESWORTH—The ventilation and lighting of the house are under oue control. That control is Mr. Leesom (as we understood), and he is under the control of the Board of Works. Mr. DEEDES complained of the ventilation of the li brary, and said that at 3 o'clock that day it wu intoler able. MINISTERS' MONEY IN IRELAND. Mr. FAoAM asked whether it wee the intention of the Chief Secretary for Ireland to bring in • bill for the abo lition of ministers' money before Easter, and if so, whether he would do it before the Irish assizes commenced, in order that mentben representing Ireland might be in at tendant*. _______ Sir J. YOUNG said he wu quite aware that great anxiety existed on this subject. A measure wu in forward ness, which he hoped to present ; but it was impossible to du so before the Irish assizes commenced. If not before the recess, it would be submitted immediately after. Of course, it was a measure which required • great deal of ARTERIAL DRAINAGE OF IRELAND. Sir J. BURKE salted if there was any objection to lay n the table of the house a copy of the instructions to the ommlasioners for inquiry into this subject ? Mr. WILSON said there was no objection. SECONDARY PUNISHMENTS. Sir F. BELLY uasd at what time of the session it would be convenient to the government to bring forward the measure which they had promised on the important subject of secondary punishments ? Viscount PALMERSTON said the subject was one of great importance and considerable difficulty, and he really was not prepared at that moment to state at what time the government would be prepared to bring in a measure. - -- • -- EXPORT OP IRON PLATES. Mr. BOOKER, after reading an extract from some paper, asked if the government had received any official communi cation from the Prussian government to the effect that they should allow the free importation of iron plates for the building of iron vessels, for twelve months, or for some limited period Mr. CARDWELL said be had made inquiry, and no official communication to that effect bad been received. THE CLERGY RESERVES BILL. Mr. PEEL brought up this bill, which wu read a first time, and ordered to be read a second nuts on Monday. RELATIONS WITH FRANCE. Mr. DISRAELI—S:eing the noble lord, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, in his place, I wish to give notice that to-morrow I shall make inquiry of the government with respect to our relations with France, sad shall call the attention of the house to the subject generally. METROPOLITAN POLICE DISTRICT. Bir DE L. EVANS moved for a "return showing the amount of property assessed to the relief of the poor t'or the year ending on the 25th day of Much, 1853, in each pariah of every county, division of a county, city, or borough coin. prised within the metropolitan police district, and contri buting to the payment of the metropolitan police rate; showing, in parallel columns, the amount of rental on which the metropolitan police rate is amused in each such parish, and the population and number of houses therein • according to the census of the year 1851." Agreed to. HOP DUTY. Mr. FREWEN rose to move the following resolution : "That the excise duty on hops is impolitic and unjust, and ought to he repealed." He had brought forward a similar motion last year, but in consequence of the Earl of Derby and the late Chancellor of the Exchequer having stated to • deputation which waited upon them on this subject that it would receive the coosideration of the government, he did not press the motion on that occasion. About ten days aio • deputation having • similar object in view waited on the present government, and not having received any as surance that the government would consider the subject, he was urged by the hop-growers to take the earliest op portunity of stating their case to the House of Commons. The first point he had to urge was that the amount of the hop duty was very small. The duty in 1849 was only 145,8934 ; in 1850, 424,7024. ; in 1851, 238,6234 ; making • total for the three years of 807,0181., or an average of near 270,0001. per year. But even this sum, aural as it was, the government could not reckon upon; for it entirely depended on the writer and the state of the crop whether the duty would be 40,00 W. or 400,0001. It was, however. a severe and oppressive tax on a small portion of the community, for it amounted to no less than 101. or 124 an acre on every sere grown it the eastern part of Sussex. It was first imposed in 1711 to support the burden of the wars carried on by the Duke of Marlborough. In 1802 it was increased, and in 1806 it was reduced to its present amount. It was the only tax that had not been mitigated since the war. The cultivation of hope required a great deal of capital. The expenditure on manual labour amounted to 141. per acre, which upon ten thousand acres—that being the average acreage under hops in the division whien he represented— amounted to 140,0001. If the crop failed, a great number of persons were thrown out of employment, and a heavy burden was thrown on the poor rates. It was • peculiarity also of the growth of hops that an abundant crop was considered a curse. In 1848 when there was a productive season, and the price of hope was consequently low, the duty amounted to 444,0001., or 20 per cent. of the value; in 1847 the duty amounted to 390,0004, or 30 per cant of the value; to 1848 it was 388,0001., or 60 per cent. of the value. This duty was sometimes so oppressive that the government, on being ap pealed to, sometimes postponed the collection, and even occasionally remitted a moiety of the amount. In 1849 • moiety of the duty was returned in consequence of the clis trees amongst the hopp growers and their inability to meet three ezesesive exastisns Hee knew one ease in which a peer hat respectable miaow was confined for three menthe la MaMaree ChM horses she was not able to pay the duty whisk was ilamsafial of her, and there were several other cases Ma similar mature. Another great evil of the hop duty was tNy that** being levied by weight it was felt slightest, emmiuse districts than on others,where the hope were of a fast quality and brought a larger price. TM avenge sti ealerese duty for the four years, 1847-60, was If pm cent. is dm Canterbury district, 241 per cent. in the Maidstone district, and 31 per cent. in his unfortunate district of Sussex. (Hear, hear.) In the majority of cases the amount paid for duty woe mere than double the rent of the farm, although only 6or 7 acres out of 100 were under the cultivation of crops. He knew one case where 26 acres on a farm of 503 acne were ander hop cultivation, the average amount of the duty on which was 2584 lbs. Bd., whereas the average rent of the whole farm was but 289/. (Hear, hear.) He had been told that a deputation waited on the government, and stated that the hop planters were tot is Leone of • total repeal of the duty. He was prepared to show that four-Ilths of the hop pleaders of Sussex had pe titioned for the abolition of the tax. It might be that some of the planters in Kent and Worcestershire were not in favour of the total npoal of the tax ; but that was be cause they wished to have a monopoly of the growth of hops is their own heads; just as the large brewers and the large tea dealers were opposed to • repeal of the duties oa malt and tea. (Hear, hear.) He did not ask to have the tax repealed now or in a year hence. All he desired was that the house should affirm that the tax was impolitic and unjust, sad one of the first which ought to be repealed. He thought he had said enough to show the oppressive ness and injustice of the tax, sad he called on the house to affirm the resolutioa ha had placed on the paper. (Hear.) Mr. FULLER seconded the motion. The question having been put, ill of the EXCHEQUER said be - house ventured to a thallient hope that the would not be " at the swat time, te enter into a discus -1144/11 on Br ie 1&=; and he trusted that the hon. gen tlemen who and sesended the motion would not think it slightest disrespect towards them, or any want nineteenth of the importance of the subject, if be declined to pyres, it into all the details into which le bad been earned, and into whisk it ought to be carried, with • view of full corn it. (Hear, hear.) Oss admission he wou ld make to the hoe gentleman, and it was the only one he was called on to make on the present occasion ; for he would ask the house to reject the motion rather on the ground of the time and manner in which it was brought forward than on any opinion he entertained one way or other on the subject. The admission he would make was, that the case of the Busse: hop growers was a hard one—(hthr, heat),—and that with regard to others the duty upon them was oppressive ; for the duty being levied by weight an undue and disproportionate amount of duty was thrown on the bop power on lands of an inferior de ecription, as compared with the growth of more favoured dis tricts, which obtained a higher prime, whilst it was produced in less quantity relatively to the ground under cultivation. let having admitted this, Its was not prepared to go further with the hon. gentleman, because it appeared to him, that hawing shown this inequality to exist between the growth of the district and another, this ought to lead the hon. glesilieman rather to suggest some mode of remedying the moms injurious arrangement of the tax, and establishing =Mifairness in the mode by which it was to be paid, nt such a branch of the public revenue ought to be Iththithed altogether. The hon. gentleman asked them tas Othissan this tax, and yet he (the Chancellor of the Ithiserpser) did not know whether he elided on them to repeal it. If the hon. gentleman proposed to repeal the tax, be met him with the objection that the House of Com mons ought not to repeal any tax unless they kney the ex penditure for which it would be necessary to provide. (Hear.) If, on the other hard, the hon. gentleman did net call upon them to repeal the tax, but only pass a condemna tion upon it, be would reply that this would be • practice highly dangerous to the honour, the character, and the interests of the country, for he could conceive nothing which would lead more directly to demsgogism than that this home should indulge itself with the ventila tion of abstract opinions on the subject of taxation, and announce the condemnation of them without giving the pub lic the benefit of the repeal of those taxes which they had un dertaken to condi ma. He did not ask the house to prejudge the question now, but ho edited on the house not to esta blish No dangerous a precedent as to destroy a portion of the public revenue before they knew what the wants of the esentry would be. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BALL said he would support the motion of his ton. Mend, for he thought the tax on hops was both impolitic and unjust. The farmers of England were expected to isopepoiteldth tai dm producers of the world. and it wasthe duty of the govelument to put them in •eandltion to do so. Mr. DEEDES said that the present was not the first time he had felt bound to oppose his honourable friend the mem ber for Sum:, who seemed desirous to have a match come off in the hones, which was often announced in the cricket ground, namely, Sussex against all England. (A laugh.) But his boo. friend, he trusted, would find that the odds were all against bim,this time. (Hear.) He should net go into the details of the question at any length, but content ' himself with simply opposing this motion. Mr. HARCOUItT believed that the repeal of the duty would be most injurious to the growers of hops, and, therefore, should oppose it The plan of his hon. friend might serve one county, but it would injure all the other hop-growing counties in England. Besides, although ha had not any great confidence in the present government, seeing the discordant materials of which it was composed, he could not, until they had produced their budget, ask them to disturb the fiscal arrangements of the country. Mr. BRIGHT said it might appear odd to seek the re moval of a duty of which the persons principally liable did not complain ; but at the same time he could not concur in the theory of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the hon. member for &aux had set an indifferent example to the house in bringing forward a motion in which his con stituents were deeply interested. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had in tact said what all his predecessors had been in the habit of saying, namely—Don't discuss any tax until they all come before the house together; while if hon. members waited until the government proposition had ap peared, the response then was—Are you prepared to disturb a scheme of finance which the government have fully con sidered, and upon which they have come to a final conclu sion? (Hear, hear.) Now he (Mr. Bright) thought that the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad a great advantage in framing his budget, if be came to it prepared with a know ledge of the wishes of the house on the various points of taxation. (Hear, hear.) Did they suppose that the late Chancellor of the Examiner would have shipwrecked the government by his budget, had he previously known the feeling of the house respecting the doubled house duty and the repeal of half the malt tax ? (Hear, hear.) For these reasons friendly propositions like those of the hon. member fur Sussex should be received with attention, as giving useful information towards the preparation of the budget. (Hear, hear.) The motion was merely declaratory as to the folly and iginstice of.the hop duty, and went no further than motions made by his (Mr. Bright's) colleague last year respecting the paper duties. Supposing such a motion carried, the Chancellor of the Ex chequer would be fres to say that the wishes of the house should be considered at the earliest possible period, and would not be considered unreseoaable if he at the same time declared the impossibility of repealing them during the present year. (Hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer would have a surplus of about two millions to deal with, and now was the time for the several interests of the coun try to put in their claims for relief. The right hon. gentle man had spoken of 300,0001. as a large sum which was much looked for in his office, and he would be willing to concede its importance did not he see on the other hand the facility with which three. six, and sometimes 910,0001. were constantly disposed of in more than one of the great departments of the state. (Hear, bear.) This hop duty was one of the most disgraceful taxes that could be conceived, setting one county against another, and engendering hostility when there ought to be nothing but friendly feeling. Why, if the hon members.aho had spoken on the opposite side were only to change coun ties they would make speeches seemly contrary to those they had made that evening. (A laugh.) For hie part, no matter what constituency he might represent, be could not consent to say a single word in favour of a tax of so scan• dalous a character. (Hear, hear.) It was one unequal in operation, and uncertain in amount, and involved a system of collection as rude and barbarous as any that had ever been devised in Turkey, or any other semi-barbarous country. For these reasons, he thought the hon. member was fully justified in bringing forward his motion. Free trade and competition were now conceded principles on both sides of the house, and therefore he should support the motion of the hon. member. Mr. HUME warned the hon. member that no good was ever to be done by attempting to please the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (A. laugh.) He had been sorry to hear !the speech of his right boo. friend who at present filled that office—a speech which ill became the friend and pupil of Sir R. Feel. This was a case in which one county war ranged against another—a proof in itself that something was radically wrong in the system. (Hear, hear.) That wrong was a combination against the public at large, which the present motion would go far to break up, and it there fore should have his support. (Hear, hear.) Mr. ALCOCK supported the mo'ion, but thought there was one point in regard to hops which might be well fol lowed in reference to all other articles of agricultural pro duce—that was that there was an annual statistical return of the quantity produced. Mr. F'REWEN—In reply, observed that if the house decided in favour of the motion, the Chancellor of the Ex chequer would find the Ways and Means to meet the de ficiency it would occasion in the , as bad been done in the case of the window duty. The house then divided, For the motion 9l Against it THE CASE OF THE MADIAI. Mr. KINNARD then rose tc; bring forward his motion : " That her Majesty will be graciously pleased to take such steps as her Majesty may deem most fitting for bringing under the notice of his Imperial Highness, the Grand Duke of Tuscany, the strong feeling prevailing among a large number of her Majesty's subjects, in consequence of the persecution now actively begun in Tuscany, of those who secretly or openly profess principles held by her Majesty in common with the majority of her Majesty's subjects in the United Kingdom, which persecution appears likely to increase in intensity, through the decree lately promul gated, which re-enacts the penalty of death against the so-called ' depravers of the religion of the state.' " The house would recollect that in the course of last year a cruel and brutal sentence had been passed by the Tuscan government, and was now in course of execution, against two individuals, of an humble position in life, it was true, but still of unimpeachable character, on account of their religion, the tidings of which had given rise to feelings of sorrow and indignation, not only in England, but in every protestant state of Europe. Across the Atlantic, too, the American people had expressed, in unmistakeable language, their sympathy in the cause of the Medial ; and if he was rightly informed, the President and the Minister for Foreign Affairs of the United States had addressed a despatch to the Grand Duke of Tuscany, asking for the release of those un fortunate persons, and offering to send a vessel to receive them, and provide an asylum for them in the states. He proposed to show that the ease of the Medial was no iso lated one, bat that it arose from ecclesiastical reaction and a systematic determination, on the part of the Ronxish hierarchy, to pat down protestantisin wherever the civil power could be induced to aia them in doing so. It was this ground, then, that he called upon the government of this country to invite the other protestant powers of Eu rope, as the Kings of Prussia and Holland, te unite with them, and acting in concert, in the name of humanity and religion, firmly, tut without menace, ener getically remonstrate against this gross net of tyranny. (Hear.) For a long time, and until • very recent period, Tuscany had stood out in happy contrast from the other Italian states in its liberality end tolerance, which he attri buted to the fact that it had had rulers who wisely fol lowed in the steps of Peter Leopold, who, towards the close of the last century, effected very great reforms in t'o laws of that country, by which a larger amount of civil and reli gious liberty was secured to It than existed in any of the neighbouring states. The Inquisition was tablished or recognised in Tuscany, nor was the canon law ever held to be supreme there. Yet these unfortunate people—the Medial—had been convicted under those very laws which had been passed for the purpose of securing to Tuscan sub. jests liberty of conscience. In 1848 • constitution was granted to Tuscany, by the first article of which ant only were all existing forms of religion tolerated, but worship according to those forms was permitted. And, in conse quence, in the protestant churches connected with the Prussian and English embassies, divine service according to the protestant faith was regularly performed in Italian, and was as regularly attended by large numbers of Tuscan subjects, without interrupti n orkindrance. It was inJanu ary, 1851, that the Tuscan government for the first time interfered to prevent its subjects from Mending these places of worship. Police agents were then placed at the doors of these churches, and any citizens who ventured to attend for the purpose of worshipping God according to their consciences were from that time forward marked men ; and shortly afterwards 400 notices were issued to as many individuals, warning them that if they continued to worship according to the forms of the protestant religion they would subject themselves to imprisonment for a period varying from eight to sixty days. In the next month, Fe bruary, Count Guieciarehni, a friend of his (Mr. Kin naird's), a man of the highest character and the most ine proschable conduct, was summoned by the police autho rities, and informed that a decree had been passed forbidding him, on pain of imprisonment, to enter • protestant church, and on the Zed of March, finding that he bad not abstained from worshipping God as a protestant lie was again sent for, and it having been found that there was no law ander which he could be convicted, it was proposed to him that if he would give up his right to attend the service of the protestant church, he might hold meetings of four or five persons in his own house for the purpose of reading the Scriptures. Count Ouicciardiui, however, did what might have been expected of him, and what be (Mr. Kinaaird) or any other man of honour and principle would have done, stood upon his right as • citizen—the right which had been secured to him by the constitution— and declined to accept a privilege which was denied to others who were in a more humble position in life, and finding that he was rendering himself the object of perse cution and of punishment on this amount, he resolved to banish himself, and quit a country where be was not per mitted to worship God as his conscience dictated. On the 26th of April, a law passed giving powers to the yiice authorities to apprehend and punish by imprisonment or • year persons guilty ot religious or political offences. In May, the government issued a decree forbidding the count to leave the country. This was on the 7th, and on the same evening Count Guiccisrdini having called upon a friend in whose house he met some other gentlemen, pro testants like himself, it was proposed that a chapter of the Bible should he read before leaving. This was done; and while it was being read, fifteen armed police entered the house, arrested the gentlemen, and placed them all in the common gaol, and it was only by favour that Count Ouicciardini was afterwards allowed to banish himself from 'ruscany. Since then, the count had resided in this country, and within the last few days had received news of the death of his mother, ro whom he was sincerely attached, and whose last moments ho had been prevented by the tyranny of the Tuscan government the privilege of attending. Be tween slny and the ddth of August, several arrests were inadtruf persona . who had attended protestant worship; but on that day, as appeared by the papers on the table, an English gentleman, Mr. Walker, and two Florentine gen tlemen were waiting to see the banditti in his house, when the police entered, end arrested Francis Msdiai, end conveyed him to prison, radon the following day his wife Reim Itladiat and their servant were also arrested and im prisoned. In September, • young Post-office clerk was tea on a charge of h aving a Bible in his possession ; no Bible was found, but his wife had admitted that he had I a Bible which he was in tie habit of reading ; and for this offence, and no other, this young man was cast into prison. and possibly had been killed by the severity with which he had been treated, for nothing had been heard of him since. His object, in referring to these cases, was to show that the persecution of the Medial was part of a system, as he had said. On Nov. 25, • decree was issued charging the Medial with " impiety," which charge was attempted to be proved by the 16th article of the Florentine Code, which denounced as impiety the public teaching of doctrines contrary to the catholic religion, and affixing as the punishment of the crime imprisonment and labour en the public works for a time or for life. But • reference to that article would show clearly that it was framed to meet public and overt acts only, and that it was not applicable to the ease tithe Medial had been most satisfactorily and con clusively argued by Mr. 1). Ihll, the eminent queen's counsel, to whose able paper in the " Law Review " on the subject be invited attention. The hon. gentleman, after citing other instances of persecution, and precedents for in terference of the nature proposed. said—He trusted the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs would not oppose the' motion, nor cease to make efforts on behalf not only of the Medial (however anxious he might be for their release), but he (Mr. Kinusird) earnestly trusted that wherever our brethren on the continent were persecuted on account of their religious faith, the voice of England would be raised in their behalf, and that we should not be intimidated from expressing our opinions plainly and openly, and putting the moral weight of this country forward in behalf of our persecuted brethren on the continent. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman concluded by reading his motion. Lord D. STUART, iu seconding the motion, said that he was much obliged to his hon. friend for bringing it for. ward, end the people of this country ought to recognise a debt of gratitude to him fur doing so. No occurrence on the continent had of late attracted so much attention as the cape of the Medial, and the people of this country had expressed their sympathy with their protestant brethren all over the world, and they had seen their feelings reflected in the acts of the British government. As to interference with the other countries of Europe, it was well known that Oliver Cromwell had interfered on behalf of the protest- ants of France ; and treaties had been entered into for the protection of the Waldenses and the Vaudois, and the repre sentatives of this country had been instructed to remonstrate when those treaties were broken. It was not till 1815, when the holy alliance made a new settlement of Europe,thet the uglier innate Vaudois were handed over to the tender mercies of the Kiog of Piedmont, who in four days after he reached his palace at Turin subjected the Vaudois to religious die abilities ; nor did they again enjoy religious liberty till the constitution was established the other day in Sardinia. There was no reason why there should not be treaties for , the protection of protestant in Piedmont and Tuscany just as there were treaties guaranteeing the exercise of religion other than that of the country in which people lived, as in • Turkey, where Christians were permitted to exercise • re • ligion which was not that of the State. There were also . treaties for the prevention of the slave trade in other coon : tries; and why should there not be treaties with states, by • which they would be debarred from interfering with their correct. (The hen. member hero repeated the sentence of the mutt in full, the sentence being howl upon finding the accused guilty of the crime of proselytism, and of acting under the direction of foreign teachers, &c ) Ils was net anaious (he went on to observe) to express any opinion one way or the other upon many of the topiei Ptarted by the honourable gentleman and the noble lord; but he would not withhold his coneurreace in one sentiment expressed by the hon. mover—sic., of condemna tion of the psnalty of death upon " the depravers of the religion of the state." (Hear, hear.) With such a truing as that he had no sympathy whatever. (lieu, hear.) The hon. gentleman and the noble lord hod made various state ments with respect to acts of the Tuscan government which he was quite in a position to deny ; but with such refuta tion he need not trouble the house on that occasion, into much as the statements themselves had no bearings on the case immediately before him. At the Caine time this iilo - case raised a general question ; and the reason why he I felt so particularly obliged to the hon. gentleman for in troducing the matter wee, that he had thus opened uo a class of ionsiderations which he (Mr. Lacas) himself had been very anxious to bring under the notice of the hoe*, and with which he could not hope fur a more favourable op portunity ot dealing than that now olio-red. tieing, then, into the general question, he would for the moinei.t admit, for the sake of argument, that the Tuscan government was to be blamed for having punished the Medi AI in the manner alleges' for the crime of proselytism ; and he would proceed to ask what had been the conduct of the British government in cases of an analogous descriptiou, and in which Roman cathblics in different pare of the world had been concerned ? The noble lord (Lord 11. Stuart) had referred with emphatic pathos to tha ease of the nulls of Minsk. That was an awkward reminiscence and reference. The case had ex cited great horror and indignation in this country at the rrne ; bat he did not remember that the Secretary for Foreign Affairs on that occasion had directed our mhos seder to remonstrate at the Russian court. (Hear.) A minister of Eugland did not, and need not, tremble before that mighty potentate, the Emperor of the Hussies ; but certainly that potentate obtained, in a similar case, far more courteous consideration from the linglish Foreign. office than was extended to a humble and miserable Italian grand duke. (Bear, hear.) Toleration was the principle of en enlietened age in this enliithterenl country ; and the treatment of the protestant Madiai could not be compared in the most extravagant flights of sympathetic fancy to the infamously cruel treatment of the unhappy Roman catholic nuns of Minsk. But who ever heard of a Secretary of State of Great Britain remonstrating with a Russian em peror on his intolerance? (Hear, hear) Oh, no; the prudence and discretion of her Majesty's ministers sug gested that the Czar was an awkward person to meddle with, and accordingly not a syllable of protest ever reached him. Take other cases in which Roman catholic.' were cone, roed, and it became evident that the English government, acting with the implied sanction of the English people, only found it necessary to ask for toleration on behalf of those who held a faith which was not the faith of the majority of Christendom, but which wan the faith of her Majesty and of a majority of her subjects. In these papers, developing the ease of the Medial, Ann. members would find a des patch written by Lord Malmesbure, then Secretary for Foreign Affairs, in which that noble lord gave the rationale of the British system in this respect—the theory and the practice of the Foreign office. (The hon. member here quoted copiously from a despatch of Lord Malmesbury to Mr. Searletr, in' which the late Secretary for Foreign Affairs states that - intervention in religious matters can only be an intervention on bzhalt of members of the par ticular national church of tho intervening party.) Thus, ... .. . subjects in exercise of their religion =cording to their the Foreign-office " toleration" was not .• religious tolera. conscience ? He (Lord D. Stuart) felt sentiments of regret, tion ;" it meant only toleration for protestants. And, is pain and indignation when he saw any one. persecuted on fact, in this instance, Lord Malmesbury intervened, on the account of his religion, and he applied the principle in its ground that it was his duty " as the protestant minister of largest sense; that is;he was not against the persecution of a protestant sovereign." (Hear, ham.) Now, he (Mr. protestants, or against the persecution of Jews, or of Raman Lucas) did not know whether the House of Com catholica, or Greeks, or ot any particular sect, but he was mons would adopt that principle ; he hoped pot. against persecution of all sorts wherever it might be. At all events he, for one, would not; and (Hear, bear.) The protestant. were not the only reli- he and those who thought with him could not, therefore, gionists who were subject to persecution, but there had be expected to accept the words of a resolution which lent a been men of the sincerest motives who had persecuted one sanction—a colour—to such a theory, which had been put another, and put each other to death, believing that they forward, in the most prominent way, in papers produced were all the time doing God good service. That seemed to by the Foreign-office. (Hear, hear ) Certainly, he ought be true which had been somewhat irreverently said by the not to be surprised—hardly shocked—for the practice was poet— in accordance with the theory. Not negatively, but pool- That Christians have burnt each other, quite persuaded tively, this had beeu the historical practice of the Foreign- That all the Apostles would have done ss they did. office. As an exemplar, he would point to the noble He would say that Roman catholics had been as much lord the present Home Secretary, and he would .persecuted as protestant* in our times. Look at the refer to the many papers which had proceeded conduit of the Emperor of Russia. How bad he nested from that noble lord's accomplished diplomatic pen Roman catholic*? A petition had been presented to the to justify him (Mr. Lucas) in selectieg the noble lord for Cur from the Polish provinces, and also from his own the office of defender of the conduct of the Grand Duke of dominions, stating the persecution which had been carried Tuscany. (A laugh.) He would briefly state why. Most on by an ecclesiastical commission, who beat and slew the hon. members would remember the expulsion ot the Jesuits Roman catholic.. The persecution of the nuns of Minsk from Switzerland, in 1847. The noble lord took an active could not but be remembered. A remonstrance had even port in those transactions. He, the official alvocate of the bees made to the emperor on account of the persecution of principle of toleration fur members of the church of England, the Roman catholic!. A large amount of the revenues of was found sided in favour of the expulsion of the Jesuits, the churches and convents of the Roman catholic* had who had been guilty of no crime—(" Oh, oh," and counter been forcibly seized and giver to the Greek church, and cries of " Hear, )sear")—who had been found guilty whole provinces had been ordered by the Czar and corn- of no crime whatever, and whose sole °Rohe, as stated palled to abjure the Roman catholic faith. Those were by the noble lord, was, that they were doing- in things which excited his (Lord D. Swart's) horror, us Switzerland exactly what the Madiai had been doing in much as any persecution of protestants. Such things were T us c an y, an d f ur the doing of which a Tuscan court had horrible ; but it would be horrible also if we, in this great condemned them—the punishment exciting the indignation protestant country, should stand by and not raise our voice of the tolerant Foreign-office. (Hear, hear.) In a despatch when persons were persecuted, as it was shown they had to Lord Nornienby, dated Nov. 16, 1817, the noble lord been in Tuscany. Whatever might be the opinions explained his views; and, of course, in that acute way of Individual members, he hoped that the Roman which distinguished him; be did not ettack the Jesuits mitholies in that house would, as a body, be in violently, but he elaborately developed the reasons why &Your of this resolution, and declare themselves they certainly ought to be persecuted—(laughter)—why the the advocates of the Christian principle of doing unto others most hostile course possible should be taken against them. es we would have done unto us, and that in this case they (Laughter.) "The Society of Jesuits," said his lordship, would join the rest of the house in demanding religious " must be looked at in a religious as well as in a political toleration in Tuscany ; and whether or not government point of view." (Ironical cheers.) lie (Mr. Lucas) could would agree to the precise motion, he trusted that they understand the cheer; hon. members inferred that would so act as to forbid to this country the reproach of re- after saying that his lordship justified their expulsion on ruining supine while such acts, as those detailed in this political grounds. But quite the contrary. (" Hear instance, were in progress in any part of the world. hear," and laughter.) hits lordship went on to say, that (Cheers.) in its religious character, the Society of Jesuits was The resolution having been read, avowedly established to make war„upon the protestant re- Mr. LUCAS addressed the house. He joined cordially 'igloo ; and that, therefore, in a small country like Swit in the expression used by the noble lord who had just sat =eland, where two-thirds of the people were protestants, down—of thanks to the hon. gentleman who had intro- the introduction of such a society would give rise to dime daced this subject, for originating such a discussion • and Wins between the protestants and the Roman eatholies. with respect to the manner is which it had been introduced, Accordingly, and with the approbation of the " liberal " he thought nothing could be more appropriate and becom- party in and out of the house, the noble lord recommended lug, or leas calculated to provoke angry feelings. But he the Diet to expel the Jesuits frorg Switzerland. could not agree in the resolution which had been laid before (Hear, hear.) And from what part of Switzerland ? the house ; and mainly for this reason, that, so fares he un- In Tuscany, it would .be observed, the whole people, with derstood the facts of the case, ha did not believe the rem- a few isolated exceptions, was intensely catholic; mad a lotion stated those facts correctly. That house could only Tuscan government might have the noble lord's justifies take the facts as it got them in the papers recently de- Goa for expelling missionaries who would provoke the ill livered ; and it was remarkable that in nearly every feeling of a vast majority. But the Jesuits, in 1847, were one of the ad caplanduas statements made in this case, whe- expelled from a catholic canton—from the catholic canton ther in or out of that house, the English public had been of Lucerne ; and they had been established there at the in favoured with a totally different version of the story front vitation of Roman catholic authorities. M Wails 'animals, that which had at last been officially submitted. (Hear, would not the noble lord's justification of the expulsion of hear.) What was stated in the resolution was, "to bring the Jesuits be ample justification for the imprisonmeet of under notice," sic., &c., " inconsequence of the persecu- the Medial, whatever difference there was in the cases being tiona now actively begun in Tuscan yof those who secretly obviously in favour of the Grand Duke? (Hear, hear.) or openly profess principles held by her Majesty in common There were other cases to be referred to, some remembrance with the majority of her Majesty's subjects," &c., &c. That of which should be calculated to moderate the fury =Wan was a statement that the Radial had been punished for catholicity which the " persecution" of the Madiai had es holding certain religious views. The case shown by the cited among the dissenters of Great Britain. (Oh, oh.) lie papers before the house was a different case : and if those could refer to the case which occurred at Tahiti, and which papers were correct, then it was certain that the had made the name of Mr. Pritchard so celebrated. (Hear, persecution of the Radial, as it was called, was not hear.) He was afraid he was detsiniug the house too keg— s persecution for openly or smutty professing any (encouraniag cheers)—but the subject was important; and particular religions opinions, but that it was a punish. the point of view be was endeavouring to put before meat of them tor engaging in a system of prose- the house might have the interest of novelty. lytising, in obedience to and at the instigation of various (The honourable gentleman then went into a de foreign missionaries and agents. (Loud cries of "No, no.") tailed narrative, commenting on it OA he proceeded, He begged it would be observed that he was stating the of the quarrels of Mr. Pritchard, missionary and consul case made out in the Parliamentary Papers—(no, no)—and at Tahiti, with the French Roman catholic missionaries, he was prepared to prove that the matter was as he stated. wh mhe would not permit to laud, or, if they did land, The offence was alleged in the form of the sentence passed ; whom he got expelled ; of the law which he induced the and here was the whole nature of the case developed in the Tahitian legislature to pass prohibiting the preaching of very , technical terms of the proceedings before the court, say but the " faith of Britain ;" and of the approval the statement being that they were punished for acts of which Lord Palmerston, u foreign minister, had extended proselytism, We acts of proselytism and their character and to all Mr. Pritchard's acts.) But Mr. Fritchard never their origin being specified. Now, how was it possible to re- was rebuked for conduct for which they would ooncile that statement with the different statement now rebuke the Grand Duke of Tuscany ; but be re contained in the document laid on the table by the hon. mained the representative of this country is the South Sea mover ? (Hear, hear.) What was the cue the Radial Islands. If the resolution expressed the facts of the case made out for themselves ? What they said was that they with regard to Tuscany, he should only be prevented from had only had meetings of a few friends of their own yell- adopting it by one consideration, that the exercise of gious opinions at their own house. Was that a probable liberality and freedom ought not to be all on one side. answer to a persecution for holding certain opinions? It (Hear, hear.) Russia had been referred to; but they was an answer toe charge of toreselytiam; as was also their might look nearer home. The Ecclesiastical Titles Bill statements while admitting that a young girl who had been had been pretended to be based on the public law of engaged in their service had left the Roman catholic faith, Europe ; and two blue books had been produced to show the that she had acted spontaneously, and sot at their instigas footing on which the Romish church stood in other Lion. The whole bearings of the evidence so far as it was protestant countries. One of these contained a dispatch disclosed in the documents he held in his hand, pointed from Mr. Gordon, our representative at the court of Sweden, to this result—that the Radiai had endeavoured to prove who could not speak of Roman catholics without calling that they were not guilty of the crime (in the Tuscan law) them .‘ Romanists," a piece of official Billingsgate which of proselytism, bat merely of having private worship in was never reproved by the noble lord who laid the docu their own house. fbe sentence declared that the Radial, meats on the table. It was nothing less than an insult to neither by themselves nor by their witnesses, had been those who assisted in paying his official salary. But from enabled to overthrow the facts alleged in accusation. And blr.Gordon's despatch it appeared that the act of toleration, what were those facts? Facts that they had been guilty of as it was called, of 1791, allowed of no monasteries in proselytism of the most systematic kind, under the influence Sweden, nor any Jews synagogues ezecept in Stockholm, of foreign agents, and by the instrumentality of money sun- and one or two other large towns. Catholics who spoke plied from abroad, and as he (Mr. Lucas) believed chiefly disrespcetfally of the Lutheran faith, and who sought to supplied from this country for a particular purpose. make proselytes, or to induce others to attend their ser (Ne, no.) He begged again to observe that he was vices, were subjected to heavy penalties. It could not be stating the substance of papers laid before every member. said that these laws were inoperative; for Mr. Gordon rave He took the facts from those papers. He declined to accept a statement with the greatest animation and delight of the I the fiction they had heard so much of, and which was ins- way in which these laws had been put in force. On one plied in the resolution now submitted. He adapted occasioa a proselytising priest at Stockholm bad been com the view which these papers justified—that explanation plained of; representation was made to the court of Rome, which we net adopted as an after thought, but which was and his recall had been procured. But there were acts of given from the very first by the Tuscan government, and persecution going on throughout Europe against ca which would be found in Mr. Scarlett's despatch to the tholics which loudly called for the interfer- Foreign-office, dated August 22, 1861. The Tuscan minis- ence of this government, if they took up the ter would there be found to hays said that different reli- ease of the Radial moles, they would write themselves up gious faiths were tolerated, but that the polio" of the go- 1 throughout Europe as men who were only sensible to op vernment could not permit foreigners to tamper with the 1 presaiou when directed against on. side. lie meant shortly religioa of the natives of Tuscany, more particularly at jto submit a motion on the subject. The government had this moment, when these pretended conversions to pro- interfered in the ease of the ldadiai ; and he meant to test testonism were made the medium of carrying out certain i their sincerity by asking them to interfere in behalf of hostile political views. That was the case the Tuscan go- ' Roman Catholics persecuted io protestant countries. (Hear, vernment made out for itself—that was the case I hear.) In Sweden, so recently as 1848, a man WAS con which the Court, sentencing the Medial, had kept in view ; . witted and hued forty dollars for reading aloud a chapter and what this resolution now asked the house to do was, 'in the Bible, and saying a " paternosier." In the same to constitute that house a court of appeal from the court in Iyear a Lutheran minister of Stockholm sent four policemen Tuscany, and to declare that that first court hail not d•-eideil to apprehend a poor woman whose husband said she had on the facts and the law of the case. as the law existed in i embraced the catholic. religion. In 184.5 two men became the Tuscan code, and that members of that house were caiholica, and their property was confiscated ; one of them better informed on this subject than Tuscan laywers were ; died soon after at Copenhsgeu, and left his family in beg" and that come quo ntly that house was entitled to decree that gary. When he brought forward his motion, founded on the judges of the Tuscan court had erred in their juriedic these cases, he should ask Mr. Kitinaird to second it; his tion in this cuss., both as to the law and as to the facts. I object being to open a new field for the operatious of the (Hear.) Now, he held that thin was a position which it was F-reqrn-orti.'e, based on the priiseia:os of humanity. impo•isible tke House of Commons could assume. (than) His After citing some other cases of persecution in Saida, notion was that in an accusation of this kind, sinless, in- i the hon. gentleman said the laws there we e just as deed, they bed evidence of a most superlative and peaal as in Tuscany, and called just as loudly the inter , transceniont nature on the other aide, they must take for Terence of the foreign deportment. Ile rut base re granted that the finding of the Tuscan court was true, and ferreil to cases going on at this moment in euburgb, that the law as pronounced by the Tuscan court *val. alas where, but a few mouths ago, a catholic priest had fan " ;