The Express. — London, England, 1853-04-30 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—FAIDAY, APRIL 29. The Loan Catkins Limn took his neat at S o'eleek. PETI 'loss PRESENTED. MALTON ELtertos.—By Lewd MONTEAGLE, from Malieu, complaining of the decision of the election com mittee of the other home. Jaw's', DIPIIIIIII/111a BILL—By Lord SAVE and BELE, from several placers; the Earl of CARLISLE, from the Mayor, Aldermen, and Councillors of the City of London, and from a place in Sasses ; the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, from Galway and several other plates; the Duke of NEW CASTLE, from Nottingham, Birmingham, and several whim plates; and the Esrl of ALBEMARLE, from 34a0 suemhers of the Great St. John's Synagogue, Leaden; in femur of the bill. The Earl of CARLISLE. in presenting his petition, said that after having delivered his opinions on the two last oc casions when a similar measure had been before their lord akipe, he would only now say that he saw no reason to alter tne seuriments he bad heretofore expressed; and so far from thint.Mg that the deprivation of any political tight or erloyment, on account of religious opinions, was required either by the letter or spirit of the (Reim* law, it nee meet to him that the contrary might be argued with more forte owl that it soight be interpreted to be an act eon teary to the hest pp"rit of that law to make civil privileges depeod on relieims opiaion, for that must be looked upon as mining the things that are Caesar's and the things that are God's Petitions were presented by the Archbishop of CANTER BURY, from several places; tee Earl of W INCHILSEA, from a place in Lincolnshire. Chipping Wycomb, Enfield, Louth. Synshsm, sad other places; Lord BERNERS, from Blanchester signed by smarm& of 3,000 persons, Cork, VICO in the counties of Leicester, Derby, Lincoln, Nor folk, Devoe, and Oloocester ; the Earl of CARLISLE, from the kirk sesden or Kilmarnock ; Lord REDESDALE, from 251 meml.ers of the English bar ; the Marquis of BREAD• ALBAN P., from a place not hard ; the Earl of DERBY, from places in the counties of York, Southampton, Middle. aes. and other places; the Duke of RICHMOND, from pl sera in Sussex; and the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, from eases in the c aunties of Lincoln, York, Suffolk, and from o;lier slimes; against the bill. On presenting the petitions, The Archbishop of CANTERBURY said that having on a former ucessiou declared his reasons for opposing the measure, he should not trouble the house by repeating Mem, but be content with saying that his opinions were sachaisged, as he hoped their lordships' conclusions would alas prove to be. This Marquis of BREADALBANE said he did not con cur in tl'e prayer of the petitions which ha had presented. Tile petitioners said the bill, if passed, would unchristionis• the legislature; but he thought the oath which concluded with the words "on the true faith of a Christian," utterly vain. The sceptic, the infidel, the man without any reli gion at all, was admitted into the other boniest parliament, whilst those of their lordships who opposed the bill sought to dis q ualify Sas sinters sad conscientious man. (Hese.) Matt TAI.—By the Duke of RICHMOND, from farmers and others in Sumex, against. COUNTY COURTS.—COST OF LEGAL PRO CEEDINGS. Lord BROUGHAM, on presenting some petitions pray ing for a farther rotor= of County Courts, vehemently wirmatised the present state of the law, to which he had several times celled attention, end which, besides the corn meal costs of litigation, allowed 2i per cent. to be taken Isom the sum recovered in the shape of stilton' fees, de. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that, from the first moment whoa his noble and learned friend directed atten tion to the enormous amount of tees in County Courts, in Proportion to the amounts recovered, which woe a moat die creditable thing, he had conferred with the members of the government oa the subject. (Hear, heir.) It was difficult to know the details, and where the evil existed; but some mare detailed inquiry must be made, with the view of applying • remedy. (Ilear, bear.) Lord CAMPBELL said the cost of fees in the courts, in proportion to the amounts recovered, was most startling and appalling. (Hear, hear.) The system must be re formed. (Hear, hear) Lord BROUGHAM wished only to add.'that the salaries of the judges, of whom his noble and learned friend was the chief, were pail oat of the Consolidated Fund, whilst the salaries of the county court judges were paid by the suitors. JEWISH DISABILITIES BILL. The Earl of ABERDEEN, in moving the order of the day for the second reading of this bill, said—My lords, I have now Is move your lordships to give a second reading to the bill for the relief of her Majesty's subjects professing the Jewistsreligion. (Hear, bear.) My lords, the subject has already so much toga .ed your lordships' atteation, and has Is--en so fully discussed in this house, that it would be difficult for soy one, end certainly impossible for me, to attempt to place it before sour lordships in any new point of view. But before I plotted Very shortly to remark on some of the principal objections to this measure, I will offer a tow observations in support of the ease which I have now undertaken to bring before your lordships. My lords, when this question was last befoi• your lordships two years ago, although taking no part in the discussion on that occasion, my vote was given against the measure. Now, my lords, although I am not aware that • change of opinion on this subject necessarily calla for any remark, nevertheless I am destrousof stating to the house that this change of opinion on my part took place mote than a year ago. In the month of January or February last year—certainly berme the a:cc-slits, of the noble earl opposite to office—l communi cated to my right hon. friend the present Chancellor of the Zschcquer, then, and now, member for the University of Oxford, my intention of supporting the removal of the Jewish disabilities on the next occasion when the subject should be brought forward in this house. (Hear, hear.) I suteequently made the same commune akin to my n ble friend near me, the noble duke (the Secretary for the Colonies.) I wish to mention this circumstance, lest, by say possibility, it might be supposed that my change of opinion had soy relation to the recent political conabioatios, with which, as far as I em '.earned, it has had nothing to do. (lieu, hear.) There is lees cause for remark upon a change of opinion on such • question as this, because I apprehend it has taken piece on the part of most of thou of your lordships who are now favourable to the measure. Most of those of your lordships who now support it most recollect a time when your feelings on this subject were in • different direction ; sad it is natural that this should be the cape. I look upon this as less the result of argument than of religious obligation, which, when it is felt and re garded, must be stronger than all argument and reasoning on this subject. I consider the salmis( law as • remnant of that feeling which forwards aims& demoshout this country. In former times, se doubt with pa renter in tegrity, this prejtalice against; the Jews ; and it was turned to account by cruel mot sad atomism t rants left the purpose of primates sad 'realty ; mese O ft en may have thiegke that by es miles they were .., Oesl melee. My leas, Ide est mew epesk of per ks I knew that those ate 'ppm ohs *imams& 1177 e alb peek entertain sad name Wags= will sad Madams wands taut. Neverdielem is my *adds haw uppallem is a remmeat a ft that peva& lag pathades whisk to Issuer time edema so eawyly In every *swag la &mope. (Nase. bear.) My I look spa the Jewish a -melee. mattered as they sow me, as • people who le man the seer Ration of • crime of is masaimbie magnitude, end who have imprecated en their ems heads the awes which was to ensue as the eemequesesref that mime. We lave iseensibly made ourselves, as it were, ecomeorise la the Divine wrath—we have takes topes our elves, mere or less, to give abet to the degree el the Meet High, sad to airy ilia speed= the yeagesnes of the Almighty : hule whim we mellsse that „ .nag..... is net wan," and that It is ea aims us " r repay," we should view the Jewish people with pity sad exhibit towards them blimelholings of humanity. a . mid einem Illy beds, tile essoley, at Mast is resist times, has pegaialwad ma absolues heed= of religious minims. Mew, bor.) Wi he.. dbieeei that religious truth, or slime arra, obeli set be the amt a any einalilitatioa for vil rights. (Cheese.) M lords, the Jew as the only person who is exeladed hat_ rights and im munities, In consequence of his Miens belief. (Hear.) A right reverend friend of vein', on • berm .csesioo, made a forcible observation, that fa amillodiarg the Jews from parliament you in effect inflict a pawky on Christian electors, that it is they who are injured, sad that it is not from a love to the Jew, but s reamed to the privileges a Christians he argued that they ought to admit the Jews. My lord., it is surely an iajusticii to deny to the electors the right of choosing any man not legally incapacitated. Now, I con tend there is no legal iacapacity in a Jew, and that if you deprive the electoss of choosing any person they please, whether a Jew or a Christian to represent them in parlia meat, you commit a decided injustice upon those electors. Then, it is always unwise in your lordships, unless under I very extraordiaary circumstances indeed, to oppose your selves determinedly and obstidately to the voice of the House of Commons in a case which peculiarly touches the constitution of that house. (Hear, hear.) Parliament after parliament has confirmed that decision of the House of Commons en this subject. It is true that Doti need not fear on this occasion the pressure of danger irons civil war. There is no feu; as I recollect hearing the great duke whom we,thave lest declare in this very place, that he assented to the Catholic Emancipation Act from fear of a civil war. Certainly . there is no danger of that kind. But although there i s no danger of civil war, give me leave to say that there is danger of a serious col bel. I say that if you go on :year after our refusing the just demands of th e House of Commons in n matter in which their own body and composition is essentially con. .creed, yen expose yourselves to a risk which I should be very sorry to are carried further. Now, my lords, doss any man suppose, although you may not a presser* of that alarming kind to which I have referred—does any man suppose that this question can long remain without being settled ? Whether it he the progress of reason or the unanimous demand of the other house of parliament, you will be compelled before long to deal with this question. lam the last man to say you should not exercise the just prerogative you posscu of throwing nut any measure which is sent up far your ap proval. You do well to exercise it if you think. proper ; but in this question, which touches so nearly the charader sad the composition of the other house of parliament s 1 do maintain, that although the constitution has vested in you • full and free tiered* of your prerogative, yet you would do well So be cautious how far on persevere in its exercise. My lords, believing as Ido that your lordships, M your inmost hearts, are hilly persuaded that this is merely • question of time , more or leas. Ido ho rn that we shall , on this occasion arrive at that stage at which we shall see the settlement of this long pending question. Ido hope the gam has now arrived at which we may rust to the winds this last rag of intoletance, and that we may make our prac- THE EXPRIISS, SATURDAY EVENTNM APRIL 30, 1853. mires, sad that notsimply fos4be present accasion, or with • viewtiallswer a temporery parpimett. bat Obey agpseled for a conlirmation Of the truth or the statement to the opiates* *teems of their celebrated doctor sal Melees at a dietint period. If no sash necessary hostility against Christianity by the Jews existed, then the objection . with which be wan dealing Ml to the ground ; because the question was not the admits- Mon of the Jews as a class to parliament, but whether the electoral franchise should be so enlarged as that any one might be chosen, and what eight had nay one to assume that a choice so exeraised would fall on those who were hostile to the Christia• religion? The Ball of HARROWBY said that he pomaded his opposition to this bill on no prejudice against. or hostility towards the Jews; but on hie belief that this ad, trifling as it might appear, would be injurious to Christianity. The Duke of ARGYLL believed that this was more a qadtion of feeling than of argument. He believed that, historically . speaking, it was a remnant and • relic of the prejudices of former ages. There was oat other argument which had been used to which he would allude, namely, the number of times on which the Howie of Commons had decided this question, and the advisability of their lordships not interfering with those decision. Although he was as zealous as any one for the honour and independence of their lordships' house, and was straggly OW vinced that it was their duty to maintain that peddle in all questions affecting the policy of the Illf• pire, nevertheless, he would refer to the fist of the House of Commons having come to thee, decisions by large majorities in different parliaments, and under see. Meth, vet nments ,as proving that the feeling which is. dewed tMa to resist this measure was at variance with the moistiag feelbeg of society; and he believed that them meet be ovraneas even in the opponents of the me.' sate that they were not bons fide attempting to seems spiritual Christianity ; and that so far as religious feeling was concerned, they must leave it to the electors to choose whom they would to represent them in parliament. (Hear ) The Earl of WINCHILSBA thought it impossible fer say person to dwell upon the dispersion of the Jews without having his Christian charity excited. But this was a different question altogether. They were ached W admit as legislators those who denied the foundation ipie will their religion existed ; and it was for denying Vans mg truths that the judgmeats of God had fallen 11,1111 rein He denied that this was a question touching the MANN of election, and he maintained it would be • feat. MGM he a Christian legislature to declare in the face et Heaves that a Jew was fit to make the laws of a Christiaa country. If the house consented to this measure, it would inflict • very severe blow upon the country, and he wanted the right reverend bishops opposite that if this measure were carded by their votes they would be mainlyinstra. mental 111 separating the church from the state. (Hear.) Lord BROUGHAM thought that the noble earl (Wis. chine') laboured under a very needless alarm, for M did not appear to him that the right reverend bench of bishops would by their votes carry the measure, for although some of them would vote in favour of this measure, yet he believed the majority would be against it. For the conscientious opinions of the opponents of this sneer sure he entertaised the profoundest respect; but he did set enter into their alarm at all, and had no fear that the legfe lature would be unchriatianised in thasegessme of the air - - - mission of the Jews. (Hear, hear.) It was most satisfac tory to him to find that no asperity or party feeling hod been shown in this debate; and that there bad been no want of respect shown to that most respectable and amiable bed, of men, the Jews. He called them amiable, for they were men zealous in all good works, as any person se gesainted with the charities of this country must know. And they were easier to he admired than imitated in the assist wee which they cheerfully and continually gave, without to religion.. opinions. (Hear, bear.) yard Lord COLCHESTER said that there had been another mese of exclusion against the Quakers and Jews than that adverted to by the noble lord (Brougham). Up to the year 1828, nobody could sit in parliament without taking the sacramental test, and that was a mode of excluding the Quakers and Jews. Lord BROUGHAM stated that this was not so, for that test did not apply to members of parliament, bet only to members of corporations ; and then there was annually a bill of indemnity, exempting parties from the penalties which attached. Their lordships then divided, when there appeared— For the second reading : Contents, present 69 Proxies Non-contents, present 96 rrosies Majority against the wooed reading.... 49 The bill was aottordingly thrown out. SOUTH SEA AND OTHER ANNUITIES COMMUTATION BILL. On the motion of Lord GRANVILLE, this bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. Their lordebips then adjourned at a quarter to 10 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAY, APRIL 29. The Seamtzu took the chair at a quarter before four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. ROSSENDALE WATERWORKS BILL. This bill was resd s third time and passed. LONDON DOCKS BILL, AND LONDONDERRY, ENNISKILLEN, AND SLIGO RAILWAY BILL. These bills, which had been amended and ordered to lie on the table, were considered, and ordered to be mil a third time. PUBLIC BUSINESS. The committees appointed to try and determine the Bol ton, Totnees, and Harwich Matins petition% wen sworn and directed to sit this day. PETITIONS PRESENTED. THE Bunorr.—By Mr. A. HASTIE, from malt dis tillers of Scotland, praying that the proposed increase of Is. per gallon en spirits be not adopted, unless accompanied with permission to distil from duty-free malt. From dealers in tea and tobacco, in the city of Glasgow, complain ing that they are already unjustly and oppressively taxed with a license duty, and praying.that the proposed increase on the ditties may not be sanctioned by the house. Mr. BENTINCK, from tea dealers, tobacconists, grocers, chemists, hotel-keepers, and other licensed dealers in tea and tobacco, of Daenbnin Market, Norfolk, against the pro peed increase of the euty on:trading licensee. Mr. WILL- • COX, from tobacconists and tea dealers of Southampton, against increase of charge for excise licences. Mr. ALEX • ANDER, from the traders and spirit dealers of Carlow Nainst the proposed increase of duty on whisky. Lord MARCH, from Portsmouth, in favour of. Mr. BRIGHT, from the Manchester Chamber of Commerce, praying that the general propositions of the budget be into a law. TARES ON KNOWLEDO2.—By Mr. CROSSLEY, Boni the letterpress printers of Halifax, for a repeal of. ADVERTISEMENT DUTY.—By Mr. ALEXANDER, from proprietors of the Carlow Sentinel newspaper, for repeal of. ATTORNEYS' CERTIFICATE DUTY.—By Mr. W. HENS, AGE, from Devises, against. MERCHANT BILIPPINO BILL.—By Mr. COWAN, from the Lord Provost, magistrates, and town commit of Edin burgh, complaining of certain clauses of the Merchant Ship ping Bill. OPII/41NO OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE ON SUNDAYS. — By Mr. MUNDY, from Holbrook, Derbyshire • Mr. KIN NAIRD, from working men of the parish of Christ Church, Enfield; Captain LOWTHER, from Maryport, Camber. land ; against. PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS.—By Mr. HEYWOOD, from the members of the Accrington kethanics' Institute ; Mr. WHITBREAD, from the members of the Literary and Scientific Institution at Bedford ; praying for. FREE TRADE.—By Mr. SULLIVAN, from the corpora tion of Kilkenny, praying for a parliamentary surrender of ' leases, in consequence of the great depression in the value of preparty from free trade. MARRIAGE WITH A DECEASED WIER'S Sterna. — By Col. PEN RYTH, from York, signed by the Lord Mayor, the Recorder, City Sheriff, Coroner, 4 magistrates ' 23 councillors and dissenting ministers, and others, to the number of 1,734; Mr. OLIVEIRA, from Canterbury, Ash ford, Bromley, Bexley, and Elstead, Kent, signed by dis senting ministers, merchants, solicitors, gentlemen, trades , men, and others, to the number of 1,628-424 of these being married women ; in favour of legalising marriage with a deceased wife's sister. Slizium' COURT BILL.—By Mr. G. DUNCAN, from the Incorporate Society of Writers of Dundee, spinet the Sheriffs Court Bill. OCEAN PENNY POSTAGE.—By Mr. WHITBREAD, from Bedford, in favour of. LONDON AND EDINBURGH GAZETTES.—.Mr. COWAN, from Edinburgh, against the Bill for effeeticg the eon consolidation of. SCOTCH UntvinarrY Triirs.—By Mr. COWAN, from the Rev. John Jeffrey, M.A., in favour of the Lord Advo cate's Bill for repeal of. EDUCATION.—By Mr. COBDEN, from Yorkshire Con gregational Board of Education, signed by J. W. Pyne Smith, against Lord John Russell's Education Bill NATIONAL DEBT.—By Mr. COWAN, from the Chamber of Commerce and manufacturers of Edinburgh, praying the house to refuse their assent to any proposal for increasing the amount of the National Debt ; and also to any agree ment which may p , for a long series of years, a fur ther reduction of the rate of interest. HACKNEY COACHES BILL. Colonel siiiiiiiii g ave notice he would move a clause forbidding the drivers of public vehicles from sitting inside them, and rendering offenders against this regulation liable to a tine n A exceeding 205., or in slef..ult, to imprison ment not exceeding II days. TUE LAND TAX. Mr. WODEUOUSE gave notice that on Tuesday next he would put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on this subject. REDEMPTION OF THE INCOME TAX. Mr. I'ACKE gave notice that on Monday next he would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, as the income tax was to be repealed at the cud of seven years, he would VT:Le t :ln: n th: , right of redeeming it in one payment, Sr M AYNOOT H. On the motion of Mr. Sroosan, detailed accounts of the expenditure of certain sums which had been granted fur re pain and other purposes connected with the College of Maynooth, wero ordered. ILAILWAY AMALGAMATION. Mr. J. L. KICARDO observed that the railway cons- panies had been put to great inconvenience by the course pursued by the government during the present session; and he therefore wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether any information would be given respect ' ing their intentions wila regard to the amalgamation of railways, in order that the companies might be making their arrangements for next session ? Mr. CnitLAVELL raid he wu chairman or the com- tics conform to those principles of religious Insiders which we profess to hold. (Cheers.) The Earl If SHAFTESBURY said if anything could add to the importance of this discussion, it would be that the noble earl who had just sat down, having fee many Years opposed these claims as • private indiglilual, had now be come not only the supporter but the prdpounder of them as the first minister of the crown. A city that was set on • hill could not be hid, and he feared that many would follow the example of so high • personage. The gravity of the noble earl and the known sincerity of his heart precluded him from making any observation on the change, and he would only express a hope, nay mute, a belief, that the grounds on which he evened is vote this night were as solemn and as truest' those on which he formerly stood. He was astonished to hear it said that the popular voice j was in favour of this measure. Why the popular voice in the full extent of the term was neither an the one side nor the other. There was upon the whole • general apathy on this question. Where any feeling was entertained, it was deep and serious, but the feeling did not pervade the whole of the community. It was argued that the Jews had a constitutional right to sit in parliament. Ile would undertake to argue that question if lie thought that they really believed so; but by this bill, so j far from stating that, they stated the very reverse. For one enabling clause they bad a dozen disabling ones ; for one irivilege that they gave there were 8 or 10 that they refused. They enacted that nos Jew should be Lord Chancellor, or Keeper of the Great Seal, or Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, or Lard High Commissioner of Scotland ; that Jews should nut present to benefices in right of office ; that if they ad vised the crown as to presentation of bene fi ce:, they should be guilty of a high misdemeanour. If they had a constitu tional right to a seat in parliament, they had a constitu tional right to all the privileges and consequences of that right. When Jews were admittedito corporate offices, it was argued that they had given their sanction to the ad mission of the Jews to legislative functions. They replied that executive and legislative functions were diametrically different, that they might be trusted with one sad not with the other. But they (the ministerialists) now ravened that order. They said Jews might be trusted with legislative functions, but they excluded them from • large share of executive power. They were told that this de mand ought to be granted in accordance with the principles of civil and religious liberty. If by civil liberty WAS meant that every man should be free in mind, body, and estate, he believed ,they all, Jew and Gentile, were free enough in that particular. But as to religious liberty, if this bill passed, the Jew would have his religions liberty, but he did not see how Christians would have theirs. If it were a principle of civil liberty that a man should be tried by his peers, he held it to be an equal principle of religions liberty that none but Christians should be allowed to make laws that should bind Christian churches. They were also told that this was the last remnant of religious bigotry. It might have been so till they laid this bill on the table but see the number of " remnants" they had connected b; this bill. Did they suppose that the Jews would be con tented with being admitted to seats in the house, and that they bad not ulterior views ? The last argument urged on them by the noble earl was that there would be no peace till the Jews obtained permission to sit in the other house of par liament. It was true that when they regarded these people, they were few and feeble, and that, politically speaking, they were not persons either to fear or to pro pitiate. (Hear, hear.) It was possible for them to esti mate the result of political changes, and to make preparations for them; but it was not possible for any one to predicate the coneequences of a wilful departure from • sacred principle. Then the noble earl said, would they, in the maintenance of their principles, continue to defy the recorded wishes of the House of Commons ? While he was bound from station and from duty to pay the greatest re spect to the feelings and wishes of that august body, yet when they summoned them to depart from • principle which they held to bo sacred, they paused, and ho told them (the House of Commons) he was ready to encounter say consequences of their indignation, and that there was no power on earth or below it that should turn him and those who thought with him from the maintenance of this principle to the last hour of their existence. (Cheers.) The noble earl said that ell those who were op posed to this measure were animated by all the dark filename( the middle ages---that this was • remnant of the old bigotry and prejudice which persecuted the Jews, as the authors of the erucifizion. lie (the Earl of Shaftesbury) could at iseet answer for himself, that there could not be in the wbsle range of human feelings one more remote from his Wart than that ascribed by the noble earl opposite. (Haar.) Ns geoid not give a stronger proof of this, than by saying that it was his deep, solemn, and conscientious belief—con armed by many devout and learned men, with whom he had discoursed upon the subject—that the crucifixion was no more a eia of the Jew than it was of the Gentile, but on the contrary, that the Gentiles were as guilty of that great sic before God as the Jews, to whom it was imputed. Those who resisted the bill were, therefore, not to be considered as the personal enemies of the Jews. The house might be wired that there would never arise again in this country feelings like those which appeared in the year 1753. The opponents of the bill respected the Jews, they saw them under • cloud, but they acknowledged them as hereafter to be the sovereign family of the human race ; they wished them well, they would not bi.t harsh to them, either in language or even in thought; but when they heard their advocates declare 'that for the purposes of legislation all ' religions were alike, then they said, emphatically—No ; and they said it upon what they believed to be the " true faith of a Christian." (Hear, hear.) Ilia lordship then moved that the bill be read that day six months. The Earl of ALBEMARLE would ask the house, as they had lately done • great act of justice to their Canaann fel low-subjects, to do a similar act towards the Jews. He asked this the more confidently because a great statesman bad mama that evening, for the tint time, spoken is defence of the rights of their Hebrew fellow-countrymen. That fact alone ought to have weight upon those of their lord• ships who were not decided in their minds upon this ques tion. The Earl of DARNLEY, in voting against this measure, wished to state to the house that he aid so solely upon re ligious motives. It had been said, that the legislature already numbered among its memben Socinians and Unitarians. That might be true ; but it was now attempted plainly to recognise the anti-Christian spirit in the legis lature. The Archbishop of DUBLIN would detain the house for a few moments, because the views which he enter. tined upon this bill were somewhat peculiar, and liable to mis construction. lie should be opposed, on Christian grounds, to any law to exclude religionists of any description from parliament on the ground of the creed they held,. and he must say that to be consistent with themselves, those who spoke of the indifference to Christianity should com plain likewise of the indifference to their own form of faith implied in the admission to the legisla hue of those who differed from them, though not in the manner in which the Jew differed, as to what was religious truth. (So we understood the most rev. prelate, but it should be explained that we beard him very imperfectly.) Now, he would not plead indifference either to Christianity, to protestantism, or to the church to which he belonged ; but he did canf.as that he was indif fermi to Christianity so far as it was a name and not s fact. They could only be consistent by excluding all who dif fered from them; and he must declare that it was quite Inconsistent with his views of Ohristiaal le have say such exclusion whatever. It wegata teem bat from seal for Christianity, and be bad em egad Wen with any eas else to hold an opinion straggly, that he .agpi en then Isedshiin the justice and the expediency of mannellegall rdi gieus disabilities. (Cheers.) At the same time that • it wee perfectly open to any voter ea he in hie ewes private jedgmest and la his voluble Illelakele of par Haman, in his matrimonial engesplaleall.rithlvt)-- la his private friendships, sad selecties of metals sad amosiatas, by religiose easeiderstions ; but Is pm and tit maintain laws which ezelsied i , an religious gram* pecans duly sleeted to parliaesmkemgmd_to him esstrary to the spirit of Christianity, es deem Med by its lint founders. (Cheers.) At least, if theiebodeliips thought it Rosemary that Christianity should ha ected, they fiaaY take care net only to have a C parliament, WS a Christian constituency. (Hear, lies.) Jew gentle ma were elected by constituencies which were not entirely Christian constituencies; and if their lordships main tained that they fortified Christianity by rejecting such bills as this, he would say non tali niszilio; they must go further, and not only have Christian constituencies ' but, farther still, protestant constituencies and church of Eng land constituencies. (Hear, hear.) In point of fact, they must retrace their steps completely, and replace all the no ligious disabilities which they had gradually swept away. (Hear, hear.) It might seem strange to some persons that he should take this interest in • matter which was maialy one of political importance; but he must aellueilswe ledge his regret, not only that the bill WO en called a bill for the relief of elector', instead of for the relief of Jews, but also because the sneer sure was not one for sweeping away all this clam of disqualitintions at onto. (Hear, hear.) He did not Ills patchwork legislation relieving Quakers one time, Roman catholics another, Dissenters another, mid then Jews. He would prefer a comprehensive bill, to do at once what had to be done in the end. (Hear, hear.) Before lie sat down, he wished to say one word with respect to an evil which might arise out of this bill, if it were proffered and passed as a triumph over Christianity. The ',riper way to consider it was as a triumph of chns tianity—(hear, hear)—and he asked their lordships to sup ppnnrt the bill , because it was a measure in favour of the u b se it was a measure in support of Chris tianity. (Cheers ) The Bishop of SALISBURY would attach more weight to the arguments of the last speaker, if there was no such thing as a religious truth, and if that religions truth bad not been embodied in certain distinct institutions. lie would oppose the bill, on the ground that he viewcd it as a direct attack on the Christian legislature ; and if he were toll that that was not a novel argument, his reply was that the answer also was old, and was as unsatisfactory as it was familiar. The Bi,hop of ST. DAVID'S agreed with the most reverend prelate (Whately), that it was to be regretted that the title of this bill was such • misnomer, and that it was not called a bill for the relief of electors. He had never heard any sound reasons against the measure. Of course their lordships had heard again that it was a measure to " unchristianue the legislature;" but, again, explanation of what that phrase meant was totally omitted. Ills right rev. friend rested his arguments just on this, that by this measure they would he permitting the introduction into the legislature of theses who blasphemed the holy came which they venerated. Ile knew this was a prevalent octioc, and it was one which be himself entertained for some time, and which he had been slowly lcd to question; hat when his mind had been led to consider the subject Vie more he was disposed to question it, and he now found that the charge of a neces sary hostility existing on the part of Jews against Christians was distinctly repudiated by the Jews them- awe Which was oen Ike subject, and he could on l y trooleda, for blemelf. He allmight it was highly probibse that they ~puysi lay before the house their views dun il present seedoe,"- lr. RICARDO did not ask tbe question with regard to the committee, but wi.: ll regard to the government Mr. CARDWELL cola only repeat his answer, namely that he thought it was probable the government would state their views T H E subject this susion. " GUNPOWDER PLOT." Oa t h e motion that the house at its rising do adjourn till Monday next, Sir J. WALMSLEY roes to repeat a question he had put to the noble lord, the Secretary of State for the Home De partment-, relative to certain statements connecting the name of the late Governor of Hungary, Louis Kossuth, with the seizure of warlike stores at Rotherhithe. It would be in the recollection of the house that when he had naked that question a fortnight ago he was informed that legal proceedings were then pending. In consequence of that answer he had withheld a communication he had in his possession from M. Kossuth, in which that gentleman unequivocally stated that he had no connexion either directly or indirectly with any warlike stores in this country ; but as statements arising out of this affair were gaining credence in this metropolis, es he (Sir J. Waite.- fey) thought, to the great damage of the government, he wished to repeat his question. He begged, therefore, to ask the noble lord whether the legal investigation into the seizure of arms and warlike stores at Rotherhithe had re sulted in substantiating the charges or insinufttious that Louis Kossuth was connected therewith; and whether the police had been employed to watch the residence of Louis Kossuth or the houses of other political refugees ? (Cheers.) Viscount PALMERSTON.-Bir, the house is aware that one of the proceedings at the Bow etzeoteoiSce with regard to the seizure of gunpowder is closed, and that a decision has been given; but that with regard to the other proceed ing upon the case of the rockets, the magistrate at Bow street interrupted the case and stated that it ought to pro. teed before auother tribunal. The hon. gentleman has asked me what is the result of these latter proceedings as regards certain imputations which have been cast upon H. Kossuth ? Now really, I cannot do more than say that what has taken Bplace is all before the public, and that every man can form iz judgment upon that which has been stated in evidence. (Loud cheers.) When the further proceedings which have been pointed out by the magistrate shall have takes place, and the case shall have been determined, then the public will of course have better grounds upon which to come to a decision. (Renewed cheers and laughter.) With regard to the second question, it is the duty of the police, accenting to their general and according to their special instructions, to watch the proceedings of any Persons, whether En g lis hmen er foreigners, who may be supposed, rightly or wrongly, to be contemplating any breach of the law; and neither the residence of M. Kole oath nor the houses of the other political refugees in this country can be exempted from tbou ordinary precautions which are taken with regard to any individual—whether British subject or foreigner—under such circumstances. (Cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT also wished to ask a question. The noble lord, both in his reply now and in his answer the other night, wished the house to assume that this was one of those ordinary cases which areas in the police-offices in London, where somebody went before the magistrate at Bow-street, or elsewhere, and made a declaration that a certain person had done something contrary to the law, and where it was therefore, and as a matter of course, the duty of the police to interfere. Now he (:dr. Bright) wanted to ask the noble lord whether the proceedings which had been taken by the police in this matter had not fa the first instance been initiated, or had arisen from di rut or indirect instructions proceeding from the depart ment of which he was the chief? (Cheers.) He (Mr. Bright) was not at all afraid to say why he put this ques tion. The noble lord in hie answer the other night, and in his answer now, had taken a course which in his (Mr. Bright's) opinion was not becoming his position, or the government of this country, with regard to Kossuth. He (Mr. Bright) had never seen H. Koesuth since lie was at Manchester, he had never spoken to him, nor heard from him, nor seen him since he came to London, and he looked at this matter just as he would have done if it had regarded the humblest, instead of the most distinguished, of the Hungarians. (Hear hear.) They spoke in this and the other house, as if they offered a refuge to the exile of foreign countries. They allowed him to live here ; but it was stated broadly in the public press that either directly or indirectly the government act spies upon his house— (cheers)—and upon all persons going into his house, or who were supposed to have any communications with him. Then certain warlike stores were seized by the police at Rotherhithe, and the newspaper which was the great organ of the government 'published most defamatory charges with regard to M. Kossuth. The noble lord, who must know all the facts as much as any man in the kingdom, was asked, not to state all he knew, but he was asked distinctly, was there any evidence in his possession which could con nect, or did connect, Kossuth with the proceedings at Rotherhithe? (Hear, hear.) Then the noble lord rose, and spoke in an evasive manner. (Hear, hear.) He said he did net east any imputation either upon Kossuth or any body else. No, of course not. But the noble lord—who was the man of all others who could do this if Koseuth had not been well treated, as he (Mr. Bright) was inclined to believe—was asked to say whether there was a single particle of evidence that could bring home the charges 1 against M. Kossuth, and ho studiously avoided saying any- 1 thing that could lead to the possible belief that i there was no evidence against him. (Hear, hear.) Now, 1 he (Mr. Bright) did not think that this was the way in • which we ought to treat foreigners in this country. His I own opinion was that H. Kossuth intended honestly to I obey all the laws of this country while he was in this oesa• I try. They had, moreover, his own assurance as a tea et i honour—aad his honour had never been challenged— (cheers)—that he had at no time been connected with these / transactions. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, while these I charges were circulated, if there was no evidence connect- 1 ing him with them, let the noble lord say so; and if such evidence was forthcoming let hint be as amenable to the laws as any other man. (Hear, hear.) As, however, these i statements were intended to damage the character of Hoe- 1 suth, he (Mr. Bright) begged to ask the noble lord whether the Home-office had instigated these proceedings, and whe ther any evidence had been obtained to show any counexion 1 between M. Kossuth and any infraction of the laws of this 1 country ? (Cheers.) , Viscount PALMER3TON—Sir, I cannot but express I my extreme surprise at the ignorance of the honourable 1 gentleman—(loud cheers)—u to the constitutional princi 1 plea which ought to govern not only a minister of the crown, I but member of this house. (Renewed cheers.) The hon. gentleman takes me to task because I did not choose to answer a question which no man had a right to put to me. (Great cheering.) The question which the hon. gen- i Semen asked was, what is my opinion as to the effect of the probable or possible result of judicial proceedings which are 3 now going on ? (Cheers.) Sir, I say, that if I were to give 3 an answer to that question, I should be departing from my duty ; and I should be doing that which neither I nor any hon. gentleman has any right whatever to do. The inves • - ] i pta clone and proceedings before a court of justice are now ag on. The results of those proceedings will explain themse ves ; t and it is not for me or for any other man ti ci ::az i irtat will I be the effect upon an individual of those pr • when 1 they are completed. (Hear, hear.) So far for e con- I stitutional knowledge of th ei hon. gentleman. (Cheers.) , Sir, the hon. gentleman asked me whether the proceedings I were authorised, initiated, or directed by me? They i tem. (Loud cheers.) I don't mean to shrink from the 3 responsibility which may attach to any act I may think it I duty to do. (Cheers.) As to the refugees that are in ' die country, they are as free as the air they breathe, and I as safe as the lend they tread. (Cheers.) But on this t eentlition—that they do not violate the laws., nor • , alms the hospitality which this country throws over all , men who may seek shelter from oppression within , the limits of this country. (Hear, hear.) But I hold it to be the duty of a Secretary of State, if hp hes reason to I think that any person, whether he be a foreigner or a British subject, is contemplating the violation of the laws, i or is likely to abase that shelter which has been granted to i him by the hospitality of this country, to take steps for ob- 1 taining information of the fact; and also to take steps for 1 the punishment of any man—be he Englishman or other— • if he violate the laws and renders himself amenable to any • of the tribunals of this country, (Great cheering.) Mr. BRIGHT rose to explain. The noble lord assumed i that he (Mr. Bright) had asked him about transactions to which M. Kossott. was a party ; but the charges that were pending were cheeps against Mr. Hale, and H. Kossuth was entirely outside. (Cheers.) M. Kossuth was never theless charged by • powerful government organ with a gross crime, and therefore he (Mr. Bright) thought he was quite justified in asking the question. (Hear, hear.) Mr. COBDEN did not know what constitutional princi ples were, if it was not competent for any member of that house to ask a secretory of state in his place to explain the conduct of a judicial officer. (Hear, hear.) He knew no way in which to make police magistrates responsible , to that house except it was through the Secretary of State for the Home Department. (Hear, hear.) Be had never heard that plea set up before. He had heard questions put as to the conduct of a magistrate, in the case of an unfortunate female, and a not very grave or sedate answer given by the noble lord; but he never heard the plea set up diet the Home Secretary was not bound to give some explanation of the conduct of the magistrate in that ease. (Hear, hear.) In this case, if Mr. Commis sioner Mayne undertook to set spies to walk backwards and forwards before his house, or before the house of Kossuth— and he had as much right to do it in one cue as the other —(hear, hear)—if that were known to be the practice, there was nothing unconstitutional in a member of that house rising in his 1 lace and asking the Home Secretary, after giving him due notice, not taking him by surprise, but giving him, as in this case, weeks of notice, for an explanation of the circumstance. There was nothing un constitutional in that. (hear, hear.) And he thought the answer of the noble lord, taunting Mr. Bright with constitutional ignoraece, looked very much like an attempt to evade the question. (Hear, hear.) But the noble lord hod not been se cautious and discreet as he sometimes was, lie had admitted that the instructions emanated from him—that they went from the Home-office. Thou he was responsible. (Cheers.) This was no ordinary ease. If the police were set to watch Kenneth's house, it was to be presumed the noble lord had sumo knowledge of the causes why this WAS done. (Hear, hear.) If he had instructed the p dice to watch liassuth's house, they had • right to ink him why he took th at step. ((leers, and "No, no.") Let not lion. gentlemen on the other side unnectesaelly put themselves in the attitude. of standing between Ate,trian in fluence and an unfortunate but illustrious refugee. (near, hear.) if Owe were wise they would he quiet in that muter —(leughter)—they would gain no popularity in the ccun'ry by it. (lieu, hear.) What he wanted to know was this—were the beastings of this country, that we were different from Austria, that we were not like the Ytenth, that we possessed rights tad libertie. a woTe dim boasting, a mere pretence, or were they realities ? (Hear.) I Whim roaading off the peroration of a epee 's about " our 'lorious constitution," we did not confess that this was a fry where, if an illustrious refugee souaht the protec shores, we set the police to watch his doors. What had ho don: hat ? f i ermsteel that his premises should be watched ? na i l the noble lord received which had inducted bfen to watch the premiees of Komuth ? Where What e had he got 11 ? (Hear, hear.) The noble or might he well assured the matter Vould not drop here. If it dropped question would be repeated,-enpon what ground, upon ia noblethat lo t e d g os. , it n w o o t u to l d a n b s e w e r takennow, u p h s o u m t g f h d be rs. sur i e ; :T h in e ; what information, bad be gives instructfons to the police to ' l3 o u u n n cl u e e d that be was justified In the coo rse he had tonhis previous douree w i i n th qui re r7 g ; ard an t d o le d os id eut b h: no t w Vas f i l t 'taken regarding this illustrious strange,' ? (Cheers.) ha f fak P en a . lN N N o theta constitntioaal jealousy of foreign powers icterfering co ma u n l d e nguoltd know w r regret r than nt t n h o e b i l l e e b w a r t d e is this country was a feeling that must be peeroitted in either house of parliament. When they found this e 'mum stance following so closely on the renc.'ed and Mee.ei.sted remonstrances of Austria end other foreign powers, D DS' lishmen were necessarily touchy and jealous on the srobjee (Hear, hear.) If proceedings were to be taken in course 0. law, uo doubt reserve was justifiable ; but this matter had now been before the public for a fortnight; it bail been I announced to them as though some great secret of state, of ' some frightful conspiracy, was to be brought before the ' public. Now it had dwindled down to a mere police inter malice as to an improper quantity of gunpowder or rockets being found on certain premises. He wished to ask the ! noble lord whether he intended to take proceedings against Kossuth. (Hear, hear.) Charges of this kind ought not to hang over the head of any man with out being brought to some speedy issue or deter- mination ; least of all over the head of an exile, who ' must and did reoeive mucn commiseration from a very large number of people in this country. (Hear, hear.) If the preceedings had been instituted against K ouutls, ' the noble lord's answer would have been a perfectly correct one. But they were initiatory proceedings against the Hales, who were to be brought to trial ; and with re gard to them, it was quite right that the information should be reserved. but an opportunity had been taken, unfairly, unjustly, and unnecessarily, to those proceedings, to introduce the name of Kossuth when he had no oppor- husky of giving an answer ; and on that ground the noble ' lied was bound to intimate to the house whether or not it was his intention to institute proceedings against that illus thous refugee. (Hear, hear.) Kr. FRENCH said he must express his surprise at any Meek being made on a man who hod done more than any ether statesman to uphold the liberties of England in the eyes of foreign nations. (Hear, hear.) What had appeared fa the papers that day folly justified the precautions taken. la opposition they had only the statement of the hon. amber for Manchester of his opinion as to Kossuth. But sasollsating that he had had only one interview with Kos suth seam years ago at Manchester, and had neither seen war summunicated with him since, the force of that evi dences would be very slight. Visecuat PALMERSTON-4 am sorry to trouble the base again • but I think the gentlemen who have spoken, especially the hon. member for the West Riding, have en ' timely lost sight of the question. (111,ar, hear.) Ido not shrink from answering any question with regard to my own conduct; I answer that plainly and openly. But I was asked what, in my opinion, would be the result of certain proceedings. (No, no.) I decline answering that question. Wait till the proceedings are over, then theuestiort will be answered by the politic for themselves. (Hear, hear.) Proceedings have been instituted against Mr. Hale for a breach of the law in regard to the manufacture of rockets. Those proceedings will be completed. No proceedings have been instituted against M. Kossuth. I have brought no charge against M. Kossuth. (Cheers.) I never mentioned his name in connexion with any charge. I was asked a question fer the purpose of inducing me to mention his name. I abstained—(hear, hear) ;-1 brought no charge against him ; and I am not responsible for anything that may have appeared in any newspaper. (Cheers.) Lord D. STUART said the first answer of the noble lord was a mistake, and not the first into which he had fallen. He had been under the necessity of correcting his statement, that Hale had 500 lbs. of gunpowder in his pos session, when it turned out that he had not half that quantity. He said the first part of the case agaicst the Hales was closed. That was not quite correct. The police magistrate had given his decision; one that had astonished a great many persons well able to judge—cheer, hear) ; but Mr. Hale intended to appeal to a superior court, and that decision might be set aside. It turned out that the person in whose possession the powder was found was a manufacturer, and as such had • right to have almost, the quantity that was found—within about 51. 14s. worth. All that the warmest friends of foreign refugees could claim was, that they should be treated exactly the same as her Majesty's subjects. (Hear, hear.) But the noble lord admitted that some of these refugees were subject to that which could not be expressed in Eng lish—a system of police surveillance. (Hear, hear.) At least the noble lord refused to state that the police had not been directed to watch tome of these persons. The police haunted their steps, watched their going out and coming in, took notice of everybody coming to their houses, and insinu ated themselves in disguise as servants. (Hear, hear.) This migbt be done to foreign refugees ; and the noble lord had also stated, not long ago, that the law was the same with regard to British subjects. So that not only Kossuth, but every one of ourselves, was subject to be treated is this manner; and we could not tell whether any one we em ployed might not be • detective or a policeman in disguise. But wculd Englishmen, when they knew it, be long content to live under such a system as this ? He thought not. When it came to be known that we were all subject to this system of police surveillance and espionage, such a feeling would be raised is: the country as would make it inconvenient for any government to continue to sanction such proceedings. DEPOSITION OF INDIAN JUDGES. Sir C. WOOD, in answer to • question from Mr. 0 .way on this subject, said that the calked papers had not yet arrived. APPOINTMENTS IN IRELAND. Mr. MAGAN wished se ask a question of the Chief Se cretary for Ireland relative to the appointment of' officers to a lunatic asylum, in which he said Lord Derby's govern. ment had felt a very strong interest—(laughter)—for they had appointed the medical and other officers • twelvemonth ago, though the asylum was not yet completed. Ile wished to know if those appointments would be confirmed by the present government ? Sir .1. YOUNG wished the question to be postponed till Monday. The motion for the adjournment of the house at its rising until Monday, was then ~greed to. Mr. BOU YERIE brought up the report of the committee of supply ; and theoesolutions passed on the preceding night were agreed to. THE INCOME TAX RESOLUTIONS. The house then west into committee of ways and means, Mr. Bouverie in the chair. Mr. G. H. MOORE said the budget had been supported on various and contradictory grounds: by some because they wished the income tax to be perpetuated, by others on an opposite ground. He instanced Mr. flume and Mr. Oliveira. Sir F. Baring supported the tax because he wished it to be repealed at the end of seven years ; and Mr. Cobden, because he wished it to be perpetual. The views of all differed from those of the Chancellor of the Exche quer. His supporters did not appreciate or comprehend him at all; but they supported the budget as a whole. The great secret of this was the legacy duty; that was the oil of ammonia which attracted the rats by its scent; to obtain that they would swallow all the rest. (Laughter.) Even some of the arguments of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer were the strongest that had been used in support of the amendment. It was said this tax was only . for seven years; but seven years was a little eternity in finance. They ha d been declaring it unjust for more than seven years already; this was now admitted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, also that it was inquisi torial, and led to enormous frauds; but still it was proposed to renew it for seven years. Why should this be done a a period so happily adapted for renewing our ordinary finan cial system ? The right hon. gentleman had held it up es as invaluable auxiliary in time of war, but one that ought not to be used is times of peace; still he advised them to keep on this coat of mail for seven years longer, for no other purpose than to save their ordinary clothes. (Laughter.) What ground was there to believe it would be then repealed ? The estimates had gone on increasing, and would, no doubt, continue to do so. As regarded Great Britain, the only question was whether this tax should be continued for the sake of remitting others; and if so, would they prefer it in its present unequal form ? It was a mere choice of advantages as regarded England. But in Ireland it was widely different. Ireland was to be taxed 300,0001. or 400,0001. a year more, that other cheats might bo taxed by that amount less. This might be very just, but it did not suit them. (Loud cheers from both sides.) He had heard of the students in a hospital at Dub lin hissing a poor patient because he would not submit to a most painful operation; and this was much the way in which Ireland was now treated by the English press. The press was not altogether free from suspicion ; they had supplemental reasons themselves. (Laughter.) There was a suspicion that there might have been a bargain between them and the government—(hear)—but he gave nOeed to it; but it was • fact that there was a suspicion of the government tampering with the leading journal; nail he hoped that suspicion would be removed by that excrescence being taken. out of the:budget. (Hear, bear.) Passing from the consideration of motives, let it be inquired what were the grounds of justice. if any, Las op posing the extension of the income tax to Ireland, They must come to one of two conclusiona,—either that Ireland was not sufficiently taxed at pressat, and ought to be more heavily taxed, or that the effect of the budget would not be to impose any heavier burtieus on Ire- land. The question which they bad to consider was that of a readjustment of the balance of taxation between England and Ireland, and if he showed tint in consequeace of the proposed measures there would be a debt and loss to Ireland to the amount of 300,0001., it mattered little whether the income um was or was not taken off at the end of seven years. (Hear, hear.) The gain to Ireland unuld he 561,2871., and the loss to Ireland from the impo sition of the income tax, the spirit duty, and the legacy ' duty, would be 915,6901., leaving a balance against her of 350,000/. (Hear, hear.) In addition to this, he ought to calculate, according to the best authorities on the subject, • loss of 150,0001., in consequence of the remis.ion of the duty on fureign butter. (Hear.) lie did not object to that remission,ss it was a necessary consequence of fine trade, but lie had a right to take it into calculation in estimating the advantage or disadvantage to Ireland of the Chancel lor of the Exchequer's proposition. (Hear, hear.) But then it might be said that Ireland was too lightly taxed. Ile would not go into that question now, because Whether bile aisortion was true of not must depend a e„,t deal on fancy and conjecture. But he would stem sub stantial and sufficient reasons why a te timer:ay tax e tiould not be imposed on Ireland under her present eireunistaree se In the first place he weuid state—not at present as a matte: of controversy, but as a matter of tact—that Ireland was paying for two separate churches, one which you Imposed on her and made her support, because it was yours, and another, which she supported for herself and for her own spiritual necessities. (Hear, hear.) That that state of things might be temporary—that it might be changed or modified More seven years—ho hoped and partially believed. lint for his present object, it was a legaimate argument as a matter of tact and finance, that Ireland did support two churches. (Hear, hear.) The other fact which he wished to impress on the hou-e, wee th e present state of the poor law in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) He was not now speaking of the permanent poor law in Ire land, but of that additimel poor law burden which the famine imposed upon them, and which it would take them some years yet to get rid of and absorb. (Rear, hear.) If the iseome tax was propossd as a permanent tax, his argument would nut have the same weight ; but as it was proposed only as a temporary burden, there was neither political wisdom nor financial justice in extend ing it to a country which was already burdened with the additional temporary burden of its own. (11. ar, hear.) But there was another circumstance above ana beyond ail these to which lie wished to call attention, and that was to set before the house the reasons assigned for this tax when it was first imposed, and the reasons assigned far maintaining e t. (Rear.) Sir R. Peel, in le42 ' propescd this tax, on t e se distinct ground that it would enable them to carry ma a reform of their financial system, that was ee to enable him to repeal the corn law. The I>Lt use of Cummous had pronounced that policy to be wise, t, and beneficial ; and no doubt it has been bene ficial .. 13, tit must be admitted that it was not equally beneficial to all, and certaiely Ireland, up to the present moment, hat.reaped the gentlest share of the blessings it procured. Ye t the Irish liberal members had, by their support, advents. 'dthe question of free trade by many years. If they had joint... ' the uppoeitiou in 1816, the corn law might continue to exist for many years; but notwithstanding their conduct on that occasion, the hon. member for the West Riding, with an ingratitude that could scarcely be expressea b y h u ma n l ip s, told the m that they never at a. 'Y time showed the slightest sympathy with the Ere: elish people. (Hear, hear.) He would ask that him curable gentleman to point out, if he could, any measure wh ich w as calculated to ex tend the rights and liberties of t. people in pro meeting which the liberal Irish ms where did not assist with an earnestness that put the apathy o. • the people of England to shame. (Hear, hear.) But there 'ere some hearts so Perhaps callous that they never knew the value of g t h : . : ti f e r m i e n san ds ou t c iu h a lesson, and bring him to his knees, as they had before they lost them. (Hear, hear, and " ash, the Irish members might yet ad the Mee ,brought people manyof better r o n e e de r th, s heapeden. ( h ear, hear.) England and P w enjoying were tap abundance which the salt • sacrifice e f the Irish representatives procured for them, and now the Irish people were struggling out of difficulties, which the great boon they procured for England did not tend to lees 'Ts the hon. member for the West Riding seised them to &sell the already bitter cup of suffering, mixed with the dregs' and lees of others. (hfear, hear.) The question, as he had put it, he would not hesitate to leave to any jury of hosour atee and generous Esgliahmen, who were not influenced by a fear of dissolution, and nut prepared to support a budget as a whole. But Irishmen were going to decide upon this question, which was of such importance to their country, and it was with regret and shame that he must admit that if Ireland was to be roasted before the financial grate of the Chancellor of the Exche quer, it was Irishmen, as usual, who would turn the spit. (Cheers.) The bon. 'number fur Carlow wee one of the brat to distinguish himself by an industry and cowrage of an enduring kind. There was a Scotch saying, which spoke of a clan that never deserted in chiefs, whether they were right or wrong, and in that chivelry of et:nitwit the hon. member fur Cerluw certainly won Lis spurs. (" Hear, hear," and "Oh.") But his courage wee semewhat ill timed, when he ventured to express a suspicion of the motives of others, after tl.e melancholy exposure which ho made of himself but a few nights ago, wiisu the question of the advertisement duty was before the house. (Rear.) It was a somewhat unwise thing to suppose that they had forgotten the stolid bravery with which on that occasion, he announced that he came down to the house prepared to support the motion of the right hon. member for Man chester, but that be had altered his opinion—no—not his opinion, but his vote—(cheers)—because the right hon. gentleman the member fur Backs. presumed to vote for the motion. (Hoar, hear.) Bat the reasons which the hon. member had given for his swpicious were only calculated to raise them with regard to himself. The hen. gentleman said he saw certain members who were not competent to decide on the question of the South Sea Annuities, and yet he natured to record his own vote on that question. Ito respected and admired the hon. gentleman's estimate of his own ability, but what he had ever done, or said, or written, that could entitle him to look down on the intellectual capacity of others, was what be (Mr. Moore) woo entirely ignorant of. (Rear, hear.) Ile doubted whether the hon. gentleman was wise in speaking as he had done of the hon. and learned member for Kilkenny (Mr. Serjeant Shce) who was at the head of a profession in which the hon. gentleman blushed unseen— (hear, hear " oh, oh.")—or in speaking ia he had done of the hon. member for Meath (Mr. Lucas) and the hon. member for llungumen (Mr. Maguire) men, who by their own talents and their own energy had carved their way through the hard world without depending on time serving either on their own parts or ou that of others. (Hear bear, and " oh.") If it were true that the loss of this question involved a dissolution, the hon. gentleman and many of those who went with him were wise enough in their generation in trying to keep the government in office, and like the "busy bee" in " employing each shining hour." (Laughter.) Those hen.gentlernen belonged to that distressed class of students who would inflict a tax of 400,0001. on their country fur the sake of saving lid. iu the pound. But he warned them not to eousuminate such a calculation. (Hear, hear.) It was said that the proposition. of the go vernment would be • saving to the farmers in Ireland. That was a great delusion. The only persons who would save would be the landlords. Ile had spoken to the Irish farmers on the subject of the Consolidated Annuities; he frequently touched that chord, but it never vibrated. And why ? The hon. member for the West Riding knew perfectly well, for when he was discussing the question of' the burdens on land he was in the habit of telling the far mers that it was a question of rent—that the burdens were returned to the land in the shape of rent. (Hear, hear.) The Irish people did not care about their Consolidated An nuities, and, at all events, they would never permit their national rights and interests to be bartered away in this manner. (Hear, hear.) They were now watching the con duct of their representatives, whom they sent to parliament to take care of those rights and interests ; and if, on the present occasion, they disregarded their duties, he was sure this would be the last parliament in which they would be permitted to palter with them. (Cheers ) Mr. BALL rose to explain, amidst loud cries of " Spoke, spoke." He would not occupy the time of the house for more than a minute. lie did not think it would redound to the credit of his countrymen that whenever one of them gave an opinion different from others, those others thought it necessary to indulge in personal insinuations and im putations. (Hear, hear.) lie, too, if he thought fit, might possibly have invented imputations. (" Hear, hear," and "oh! ') It was true he was unknown to the great majority of the house, but he relied upon the future. (Cheers, and " Oh!") But though unknown, he thought the House of Commons would permit even the humblest the opportunity of defending himself from personal charges. (Hear, hear.) But ho was known in Ireland, and he would permit the hon. gentleman's speech to go there, rest ing satisfied that it would not have any effect; and to show that be said this in perfect sincerity, he would not say a word mon on the subject. (Hear, hear.) Mr. M'GREGOR said that he wished to address a few words to the house on the subject which was really before it—the conti,nuance of an ipeome tax till the year 1860. (Rear, hear.) Ile considered that the income tax was aa agent for effecting much good ; and if any country ought to be grateful for the effect of the income tax it was Ireland. Ile admitted that the income tax was not fairly or equitably levied ; but, to make it a perfectly fair ancla equitable tax, would require an inquisi torial searching which the people of this country would never endure. (Hear, bear.) The only part of the pro position of the right hon. gentleman with which he found fault was that which related to the excise, forhe was of opi nion that it was vicious in principle to reduce excise duties, instead of abolishing them ahogether. ,Hear, hear.) Colonel HARCOURT wished to state briefly the reasons why he could not support the amendment. (Minieterial cheers.) He might sum up those reasons by saying that, looking back to the last 16 years, and the enormousbenefit conferred on the country through the medium of he im position of the income tax, and looking forward to the next seven years in connexion with the enoremes benefit which it was to be hoped would be gained through the con tinuance of that tan,. he could net bring Memel: to think that the continuaino of it would be impolitic sad unjust, Mr. H. HERLRIAT was not going to keep up the ine tation which had been caused by the attack of the hum member for Mayo on his boa. friend the member for Car low, but would merely add to tee classihcation of Irish members given by the former gentlemaa one more, and that was the desaepointed class. (Hear, hear.) lie believed that the preposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have the approval of the tenant farmers of Ireland, because never had a more just or meltable one been pro posed, in as far as that suffering class was concerned. (Hear.) He could not therefore vete against that proposi tion, and thereby defeat a government which had at its head. a nobleman who had distinguished bin self above all other in the etand he had made in favour o/ religious toleration. Mr. MOItGAN, was understood to complain that the government had made no attempt to equalise the burtheu of the income tax. If this budget should pass, as he hoped it would not, be trusted at least that MAIN attempt naiad be made to facilitate the transfer of land. With regard to the advertisement duty, it was to be regretted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not attended to the vote of the house and repealed the tax altogether. The removal, of the stamp on newspaper supplements was undentoed to be for the purpose of facilitating the publication of adver tisements, but in some country newspapers the supplements contained news as wet', as advertisements. The proposition for extending the legacy duty to 'and in Irele nd he consi dered especially ire expedient at the present remain: t. Mr. C. FORS:. Elt tendered ,his cordial eapport to the pro position of the. Chancellor of the Exche• L uer. He confessed that had the re-imposition of the tax been proposed under the same conditions and ci' curnstanCel as existed in ISIS, he should havo objected t`a it on account of the un equal rate of assessment. Ivat the circumstances were not t/le °am' The charadt". of the tax bad now changed, and I