The Express. — London, England, 1847-02-17 00:00:00

shakiness of a former enmities upon the maw subject. He (Major Hereford) felt that Mr. Lyall's claim was itresietihle and consiqn.ntly he had substituted his name for that of the; hon. aseesuer. - Mr. BROWNRIGO begged not to be understood as having at all complained of being omitted. ' Mr. V. SMITH thought it altogether objectionable to shake up committees by appointiag members of stiff and strong opinions from either side of the hotter,. Mr. W AWN consented to withdraw his motion. The co mmittee, as nominated, were then appointed ; five to form a quorum. OUTRAGES ON PUBLIC WORKS. • On the motion that the order of the day be now read, Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN rose , to cell the attention of the geverninent to the fact that a mode of punishment had been receetly adopted in Ireland which he considered the most barbarous ever adopted in a works In iie referred to the summation of the public works in cases where any out rose had been committed. Now, be held in his hand a letter from an archdeacon in the Roman Catholic church in that country, as we understood, in Tyrone, who represented that in one case in his barony 288 persons had bees thrown out of employment by the stopping of the public works, solely in consequence of the overseer having been frightened by eight men with their faces blackened, one of whom struck him with the stock of a gun behind the ear, and inflicted a slight wound, or rather, a trifling scratch. (A laugh.) The assault was one almost of a bloodless character, bat yet the works had been stopped until the offenders were detected. His correspondent said that he was glad, nevertheless, to report that this tyrannical proceeding had no' caused the men on the works to impeach any one. What be wanted to know was whether the government and the House of Commons sanctioned this monstrous and bar barous system ? Mr. LABOUCHERE regretted the hon. member had not given him notice of his intended inquiry because he was of consequence unprepared at present to go into the facts of the particular cue he had referred to. With respect, how ever, to the general policy, he bad no difficulty in staticg what the policy of the government had been. The Lord- Lieutenant of Ireland had thought it absolutely necessary, in order to defend the lives of the officers employed on the public works, to direct that when outrages were committed upon those officers, of which it was supposed that the men employed were in any way cognisant, the particular work over which the officer presided should he suspended. He (Mr. lethouchere) had no doubt that this was a very near eery and proper regulation ; and he must extorts his aston ishment at hearing the hon. member state his " entire con menace" in the letter of a person who expressed himself rejoiced that the culprits concerned in an outrage on a public weak had not been disoovered. (Hear.) He (Mr. Labonchere) would not yield to the ben. member in the sympathy which he felt for the suffering people of Ireland, but he did think that that aympathp was entirely consistent with a desire to secure due protection for the servants of the state. (Re newed cries of "gm, hear.") The result of the regulation had proved Its wisdom. In several cases where crimes had been committed, the perpetrators had been discovered en tirely through the vigilance of those who would have suffered bad they gone undetected, and he did not believe that the House of CO MM= would deem the government of Ireland going beyond their duty 10 giving to the labourers on the public works the deepest interest in themselves protecting the officers under whom they were employed. (Loud cries of „ Hear.") Mr. HUME said dud if any one subject of importance could be'hoticed in the house, it was the subject now before them, to/dell the evils white afflicted Ireland, the most calculated to japr ie the sobering of the nation was outrage. So far from the gemmunent tar the step they had taken, he doss& Roam of Commas ought at once to express their deified egide that they had adapted one of the best Lead ci mar ix im irre the r fe ra b r i r d , 7: odor. (He thank her , , Majesty'shear ro z ia nnmat cbmili kr the &mama they had evinced in this matter. Mr. STATTO O'BRIEN most entirely concurred in the propriety of the course adopted by government in this matter. THE ADJORUNED DEBATE.—RAILWAY (IRELAND) BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that before the adjourned debate was resumed, he wished to cor rect an erroneous statement in the speech of the hon. mem ber for Shrewsbury on the 'preceding evening. On Friday last be (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had stated on the authority of a gentleman of great experience in the construc tion of railways, that not more than 25 per cent. of the capi tal, or at the very outside 30 per cent., was expended .on the ground labour of ordinary railways. Last night the honourable member for Shrewsbury, in re ference to this statement, informed the house tber he had Iszen in oommn-lic."^" "4" ..... antrgeatlentan in qua ... 2... .—.. ' ono and dialed to him that the Chancellor of the aer bad wbeft sabsonceived hie statistics, for that, Millq w of *Mho the Ormseßw' of the Exchequer that only 26 seen pea mile were dyed on the ground-work iri the WM ft isiner emminceMen of a railway, what he had told the ' oaths Exchequer was, *at 25 men per mile were rawarmatly cat *mg fieimary railway. Now, be - of the Sashogser) held is his band two Imam from all .11111011 all he bad recurred to, end Ise would net • pump tem gash. AO bet, to show that be Ind aotaler his htformant's meaning, he would read a brit Moist from the litter on which he had relied in his ebittelmst. His bilinarat said : "Of the total capital, = per deaf . is what is expended on the v !: Lebow." I land, from • large number of mealb, that the MOW number of labourers em it" the acomboelon of a seaway of the ordi diamacter may bo tak at from 25 to 30 per mile, Ihr period of bun 2to S miles." (Rear, hear.) In kis Mime to the beam be (the Chancellor of the Es. eilefricoll labia the maximum average, 30, and reaming the frakeriades etthe noble amber ten Lynn, of 1,500 miles, the somber at men 1s whom his bill would find at 46,,0ML And now ter the other letter from the ) ean in written alms the mesa of tbe bon alosar for . " I certainly," said he, " never ailed on Kr. , never spoke to him, never co 'Mated with hate is all my life. (Homo, been.) My int to you ma simple feet." In thou sorrostiog the statelasats of the bra. mob , : for Shrunk/Ey, ha did sot its • moment bigot' to him might else thus Maim bad t ak aa ai same( to be c HOD misled, but he would squat the kegs that the bon. Maas would in future &Min hem laskjeur statements except es authority on whisk he could tan isr all . ZlSlttaLi was extremely sorry that anything he salaam the amiss rebond to should have annoyed the right boa. gentiomm, ler when he felt all dot merest end width bis teiedebie demedert, end lb pedthea e g Est the sight hes. gmetlesame rather mistook the mist bests the beam What be (Mr. Diemen) Mated awned tbat • mmeetsebele_t imatammienminrailwaymattare. mbe be Rhowins have been the gentleman quoted by the Obmosiler of thrlheber lead oessamnicated with hinters. the subject et the t bon. gentleman's state ments; he had not mid thO informant was the right hon. 's inhumane, bat only that his informant tho be wee. (A laugh.) This wu another of the mis. u ndue bollix which arose from the practice of citing ano nymous mmanembatims. Viseenst MINIMS amp! to ask whence the right bon. gentleman bad aliblemd leo statements respecting the alleged **meats in the armaii et ? Tla CHANCELLOR at the EXCHEQUER replied that he obtained his iaimmatioa from a gentleman who wrote to Nimble& tie spot, eel ea whose authority he plead the unmet Wiese& I t B. 0113101 INS them resumed the &bats. Ile demo. ceded the parmal two which the Cbeaseiler el la Ex chequer all isimiseed inte the diesammiss by team em in itial abegisa to the smear whisk appeared al all lea of the of and be still Mae lalllalaall indention given by the webs bet at the had of the neimistry, wl predaded all bees _that any goverament measure Or railways in lettena would be immight in this semen: an intimation that realism& it incumbent apes him (Mr. B. Osborae) 11.00 NS the ball et Ohs aide member he L yon , it, b * , as be did, saw tial that mem sok melesie be ourieiwideest Jakq. As te the pesgesides AM greemument shoal net Marilee with mihrege he Iselente bosom it might net le emmilimed dead& kr it to latsrelee with nilways is Nagland. this was. a shear flalmy. As the side first reemeer of Woods and Foredo Mesaf sat aimitod in Ink that which was perfectly emalatent with right political 'amnesty in =tgi be ll y sis l sallially apply to Inked. towee& the emmatleg Inglemi It was into a momple•Metate: eho bed amps hem a state far these the i rr ae lth r = She had lent edam tor rands, sad se p is, ta lla tleedend hod bat sins Mika% end. In the sense wrist eleA lent Inked eight selitinek et whisk beim* bad repaid moves miner. a essepasima be woad soma Is the bon. member ibr Inverness set my seeditable te Seedated. Be wadi beg abo to ismthe ism, hos. sentimmem that wanthe emdedink and very jestiy, the Wiliatis et Ike fla aim ti~ertis of Ireland, very sway et them wen ir=There wee the Mamie et Wakehmt rpoilies miltheonmets el semi, may year he esmirming tee mans% and is dembin _ Usk.id hie soli* enmegh ersatieweilby di the laaiaWi erased him, and by their mime, who wen eamillaing their jointures, and welling their jinni, ter the Oksidien et relieving the atomise at we _pew esenel theta. , Um) In his egisies Itha phmideme bed mai le essephin of the gement It seam mosseememese were net bat eat, w, EL r est emem=se_ day with steaska, nor betladthiimesseeybenth te post may nnee_ whinedm= the Ida inallsede a demeneg. (A= 2 7 et the lbeargesr bed "mad the el the houllards he the a h em = lis t a t e tZet ibei in I sew r i t t l h the Iriik landiseds sub mew mwh ewe em traded they wen ifiskteverythiug in their power. (Hear.) Ile empeMed tai n the bon. gentleman tem and in the how ,. (Me. Zama, •is unwell.") Me eras veer lorry to Mar at the debt ben. gentleman's iadipasities, h i t he was not at a u ge ggebod at it, after them "eleessaloolato amt. h e b e g sae. (Groat laughter.) It the eight bin. gentlemen hid Idea peeled, he wanted is sok him his authority he ems are tuns he had made. Amen do rest, the rr ix l s e r : s gentleman had easerhed that the teat. lords of held braised four theamad ebatenente fat seat, be (Mr. 01111111Da lag alleand _llle Ina llialllalla of be onanty that me a ejectment mosses bed been beset. Theme which Mies Mused were civil bill takes oat by Milkmen for ammsre. Thesis bad been held sat that if the , bill ed the whim lord the member of Lynn, wets canted, valstheree world 'sett,. For his pert he had me malt 1v am the awls eat. There mpg hare been certain demade istimations to that effect in the green- I mom is Dewnbgetrest, bet he believed there was nothing in Ulla Min= .. mime tub ham latteure lob to deport" (laughter.) lie tem esephed hew se mate • person as the Recorder of ‘ 4 THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 17, 1847. Deblin could havehadanymiagivingson theta:ore. Heshould have known that in the present circumstance* of the country the government could not go out. But he would go further, and say, that, even if there was reality in the threat, be for one took se serious a view of the state of Ireland, as would prevent him for a moment putting the duration of any ministry into comparison with the preservation of the peo ple. This bill would benefit the people, and, therefore, it should have his support. Col. CONOLLY supported the bill. He approved of its general principles ' and improvements might be made in in details. Advances had before been made to Ireland, and with the most beneficial results; they bad all been repaid cr were at present in process of repayment. He believed that there was nothing so likely to benefit Ireland as the extension of railroads. Captain LAYARD thanked the noble member for Lynn for frying brought forward a measure which must, by bringing the subject so prominently under the notice of the house, at 110M11 Altura time ensure the re quired assistance from government to railway com panies in Joel and to enable them to prosecute works. In the measures, however, proposed by the noble lordthe member for London he bad the fullest confidence, belying as he did upon his clearness of herd and courage of heart to carry them through the present difficulty. But of all the measures sug gested, he placed most eel tance on a well-arranged poor•law. Sir J. WALSH gathered from the speeches of Irish mem bers of all parties this tribute of praise to the bill before the house—that the people of Ireland oonsiderd it a bold, com prehensive, and generous effort to relieve them. Of the advantages to be derived by Ireland from the 'construction of railways they could not have had more convincing proofs than those which were offered to the house by the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets, by whom, as well as by others, many of the details of the Chancellor of the Exchequer hed been entirely demolished. Some looked upon • poor law ass panacea; but he could imagine no such measure adequate to the exigency. Others advocated the cultivation of waste lands, bat of all speculations he regarded that as the wildest, requiring as it did two great ingredients — time and capita. (Hear, hear.) They could not expect wildest,. to transfer bogs and wastes into cultivated fields. And yet the Irish people could not venture to depend upon the voluntary aid of the English people. Such an attempt, as the hon. member for Limerick said, would eventually drain the resources of both countries. Another remedy was emigration. He regretted the noble lord, the member for Leaden, had passed over thst in so cursory a manner It was too large a subject to enter upon, but he did believe that swell-con sidered system of emigration would greatly alleviate the present suffering in Ireland and become ancillary to her improvement. He would not dwell on the subject of fisheries and coal-mines, and other unexplored sources of wealth in Ireland, but he thought that if parliament neglected to avail themselves of the agency of railways they neglected the greatest end most powerful agent of national prosperity. He agreed with Mr. Shaw, in considering that, in the present juncture retirementthei of the noble lord from office would be a most unfortunate event ; but he differed with him as to the vote which he should give. If the administration of the noble lord depended on his (Sir I. Walsh) vote, he should feel equally bound to support the measure of his noble friend, because he thought that, considering the great emergency in which Ireland and the empire was placed, it was the most practice and most intelligible remedy which had yet been proposed. Mr. VILLIERS STUART said that no doubt the noble lord deserved credit for framing such a measure, and bringing it before parliament, but ho should have left it to this government to adopt it if they chose, instead of forcing it on the house. It this measure was carried Out, the government must be fettered in their other plan*. and he (Mr. V. Stuart), centered he hari the courage to vote for it under such circumstance& Sir W. BARRON said that during the ten years he had been a member of the house,:he had never risen with reluctance se with feelings of deeper pain. The noble iisrd r at the had of the government had not given the slightest hope that any measure for the improvement of the con dition of Ireland would be propose& He regretted extremely the tone that bad been adopted by the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in opposing advances of money to Ireland: it was to be regretted, especially at this moment, when sympathy for Ireland was to loudly demanded. He trusted t ha t no other minister of the crown would indulge in each taunts as had beer thrown out by the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who bad designated this measure ass bill for the relief of destitute shareholders, rather than tits destitute poor in Ireland. The bill in reality would give great relief to all classes in that country, amount alf of whom the greatest deritution prevailed. (Cries of" Question." After all the efforts sad sacrifices of the landlords, he fen--' "-' thousands of the Irish s•••••• • • • ••• ~.... cam inevitably perish ; and he stems, Implored the house to de their duty, by tasting in mitigating the present awful calamity. Sir R. PEEL said it was his wish to died the proposal which had been brought forward by the ablitiord in a spirit and temper befitting the deepness he entimetimmi a the mag nitude of the evil under which Ireland wee mew imilaing, and of the magnitude of that future daggerwhisie he hared weimpending over her. (Hear.) He bed unikestood the noble lord to bring forward this gashes is • wirit den from all party considerations, not es a seem* fa hods rivalry with the proposals et gewessa me, he so a eoutributios towards the dam= Rest woo dewed misdated to diminish the sufferings of Imbed. In Rd spirit it de his istention to died this =ken. Re di the . mess inclined to do so, des vete be gave wield be epee the nem* of the and wall he in me tepee idweed by the can hoes esemerioness whisk the sale Imd oppo site (Lord J. al Hamel) imaindicated as potable, in the event et the seeds it the wine lord who bad proposed this mea sure The peeped was, that the runic of this country amnia be ghigal—e p ro the amount of 16,000,0001. hir the weeds of employment for the poor in Trod& - The ester to it was proposed so to eepge the relit of this enetry, Wald, and in his lies neer sided, are deed to the ilawsial asei end mo wed et this seountTiama lam) The 'wash' wadi doe at the wastry, lbw the last moms, soda up to the beglareg et eimeesy kW wee so doubt e prearrew ronfidea. The sement el ewes, nerved at he year —set, of resea= d on the Ilk et April, bat oaths ilk et Jaz the sedate whisk Matson seeds Eney;l il e r te. hied the Cher star et the Oteallaus). Met unitene had bees pod =To bees swim which the right hon. could est ralvabes; het, speaking gesenelly, of the ordinary or of TOMS% fir the you= 1=;11te could re align wire veer than the nest lemesaticipstai Ills right Wee. Mid *A ester steel that the amount of menus for the year maw sek at Ail would bhoot 80,960,0081. he net easel& the he the mem pr maw MA et Jewry had ' Doa k not lees Ira fifty dew refileme—al tames at two rakes above the estimate. The beams in the eaehawar wee ast lee them WIN millions ; end the del mew et meow over the apendititre wee aboutl,BBo,oofd. ile br, tided% rea the nosiffit and dis boniemeas .1 the pewit B erg were wasersed, the tamed ro e of the meary . IMO* slowly be reasitersd le be prespersee. Bet in reibeense to the et the - sale lad—pledging, preibly the = l et the swesery to the amount or areal mil lions—dm deer hr semaideration was rather the prospect for the amiss leer, than that of the pretent year. (Hear, hear.) The web bed opposite, or the Chancellor of the Embower, would, semi early day, state thi view which the governmat took of the financeof the country. They could lordly calculate wn a receipt of MUM for the seseing Inential year grimW than, perhaps net so great as. that whisk wsuld have boss received is the present year. Oassidedng the high prise of provisions in this country, the thgewed anise el umnahatuns *sense et ear pat towns , he moespeetellh Web pulseet we et the pest raw mate rills a eve menutertere—wetes — Ower. hes; buil— oonsidering des the alb a whieh the high price of provWess duveghee the whole of se sewn as he the I Inlaid States (owing totes ntimental demand MA )„ user puede° e epos the power of semeumption h it quertess of Beeps and Asada, it wee hardly potable fie amessive thee that oneremense er ecinbi nada et owes shwa set seedisliy Whet the memo at 1 this treatry. As hr the crime atiesibilm el the cook. war, be appraisals& se reirilks walk be. Woo lard ea. In the wry, end Warms Wi thends, an addition of no lees than 400 smsommima hr figure year. Re quarrelled not mbliaiste his the fild not Masa that any goverosamt would propose esti wed of that kind be e r ,whs • hop sense et , Falk serenity. (Rear, , how) He alluded to them is the way et complaint or invidious 1 amber ; bat wee ready to aware tad the kenos , wee I isdhed Wild view of pablis oaks whisk the *OW this tag is elso, was able to dr. Jr= t iriesew ens wigned 014111,11101. Re relied snelsipme mg seheithelt in the miesisnews estiartes $ aribeeppro hold it was probable that the ordinary seami eapsdi. dm lathe seat yesz,—lmealm. kr the debt remaining 1 the uses,—world werblembly owed the expediesseet the present yer. Them, with respect to 'dad, - beds pre pared* isrpsda 2 s mewed of the norerery esperilhare for the *epees it thstwitisk may ideas ely* do, — hr the wawa them bowers what*, ao cede of *wry thy —he wee prepared te ~est to a Moral ere lessee ly - this emery. is comma wish Ireland; be e = , MI wens eery see& weld bee toads a M= s ; the rmonneell t o mss err with the accessary thwack.** timilte sokaity In Inked, seed on the west ern one at liested, bed set ware& there might *we been a eediseskie ads et sevide ever espediesse in the wit yes ; but if the amere required Re Irked aid et all wpm* the sum which hod bees Waded dose by the *Me lad (Lord J. Russell) sr the Chweelier teethe ikelesquore-4 the seeserry espeelinem kr Issioad, tre be prickled. est et the weessass et the UMW Medd smannt te 9,086.111181., meat 11,000,01.01. 311 highly preheats ** ea the fife 1848, there weld be • dead et net lee than 7 or 8,000,0118 i., (1111. patios sad easpediram witk medo of revenue. hew•). Re alma that they siost =SUNK the e deemed el . essottot of tie Islit WNW, to the preetat =lat(Afor. helm) They MOM requirel is a liberal mod win* retirees the wirelike eta knee peril* Hilted that they would ant true to *st rest ea whisk , IedWIWI% ward be ha enkinkese— (leer, 1 le l ler= Red melt ho no et plisetka el the esii tee the deed subsistesse - WNW would pawl& mar aims ter nu* tir ode robot . (Ham, ra b id Lest= thiesibm, Mai be. elm Mow hr 1 assinides et the seism renneneer Abbe bebaseere — Fra laisir m al ase=t l.l = l" wedi sa a ta ilenrkeisa et that milvdmlle , se ter as was versed, was new abeekeerk memory reireese to the fatale 1 11111111111111/MINII misidlionesemlowthmesel poserary szertione en the pers ot this ereerety, sod, essiessiosatly, the bodes ea the Wanes would sat be limited to the 7.400,0001. or 8,01:41,8001. retekted fer the eel =et the present year. Is surveying their prospects, it was impossible to put out of coati- dentin the demands of the future. At this period, and with these prospects tefore them, he also inquired what Was the pr. Rent state of that which was significantly and familiarly known by the name of " the money market." (Hear.) A ref.:sence to drat might, poem* excite a smile; but the monerinantkidl, , in sthe.eaSein /AM he tasidnitt words, meant neither inlets Sin* What aid the terms uponnshiffil this panic can that whibh will be nebeesary it ooksau bemoaned to fobthe purpose of meeting the public esigsect w' tHear, , hear.)• A loan foe that parpose was Rig Militant of unable tit wee a basins apes the people which must he provided for in some way or other. (Meer, hear.) W.ll, then, he found th it the 3 per cents., which cohort time since were at not less than par, and which for a abort time, even within the last three years, he thought would realise more than 1001., were at present at not more than 901. He thought there had been a fall in the value of funded property within the last six or seven months to the amount of not less than 5 per cent. So much for the funded debt. If he looked at the state of the unfunded debt, he found that on the very day on which he spoke, it was almost a question whether or no some descriptions of exchequer bills were not actually at a discount; if not at a discount, they were certainly at not more than 4s. or 5.. premium ; and of course the state of the unfunded debt was a scat material consideration in dis cussing a measure which might lead to the increase of that debt. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the aspect of foreign affairs, he was ready to place confidence in the assurance given by her Majesty on the first day of this session, and which he had beard with great eatufaction, that her Majesty confidently trusted in the continued maintenance of general tranquillity ; but still his confidence in that assurance was somewhat diminished by the present state of their relations towards that great country with which the had necessarily had discussions consequence of what had pawed in Spain ; and al.° by the recollection that her Ma jesty was obliged to accompany the expression of confidence which he had mentioned by the frank and positive declara tion that the three other great powers of Europe had been guilty of the " manifest violation of a treaty." (Hear.) It was then, at this period—with the 3 per cents. at 901. with exchequer bills scarcely at a premium, and while their relations with foreign powers at least justified a degree of apprehension, though he trusted not of alarm, that the noble lord called upon them to authorise her Majesty's government to contract engagements which, spread over four years, might amount to the sum of 16,000,0001. (Hear, hear.) Independently of those engagements, he (Sir R. Peel) contemplated the neces sity of providing for a deficit of 6,000,0001. or 7,000,0001. at least, Now how was that deficit to be met ? Let him assume that there would be a deficit of 6,000,0001. or 7,000,0001. on account of the Irish calamity, in the year ending the sth of April, 1848. What means had the noble lord of providing for that deficit ? He saw no other than that of drawing on those balances which were of the utmost consequence, as enabling them to provide for any great public emergency, and at the same time to feel mire of discharging their obligations to the public. (Hear, hear.) Still there was, on the sth of January, a balance of 9,000,0001., and possibly more on that account. He knew of no other mode of providing for this assumed deficiency, ex cept that of making a rigorous effort at direct taxation to be visited. he presumed, upon all parts of the united kingdom—(bear, beer, and loud sheers from the ministerial side of the house)—the irate of exchequer bleb in the present doubtful state of the unfunded debt, or the contraction of a loan to the amount which might be musk* engendering a nesessity for direct taxation. Now he was sure the noble lord (Lord J. Hamel!) would acquit him et making any reference for the purpose of crimination or blame ; for whoever might have been the braes minister el the country, an equal necessity would law bees id., Supposing the *We lord should rued either to alma sr to the haus of exchequer bills, which weseibmikalin hawed% the borrowing of money, he was comareffieftrle ask, was at ad visable that he (Sir R. Peel) should Ismael the difficulties of the noble lord's financial paths be entering into en gagements to the amount of 18,03111,11001., to be spread over four years? (" Hear, hear," and cheers.) He must totally and entirely differ from them who emdeaded that they could pledge the public credit of this country for the purpose of promoting commercial speculations, without subjecting the public to any risk of loss. It wu quite clear that if, in adattfos to 6,000,0001. or 7,000,0001., which was absolutely for the present year, the noble lord had to provide 4,0= more in the present year, and 12,000,000!. in the three sac. reeding years, he would so surcharge the market with un funded debt that there must be a vast addition to the interest paid under that head. The public credit of the state was part of the national property, and they could not Domini apportion a treat sveo"." ' ' —....... v. ia to use encouragement of commercial enterprises, without fettering it ea regarded the public exigencies. (Hear.) The application of the public credit was very much the same in principle as the applies- Boa of direct taxation, and a very considerable application of that credit to the encouragement of commercial enter pais* at a time when other great exertion were necessary, I would both curtail public expense and engender a!neceenty I he increased taxation. It, therefore, in his opinion, be ams absolutely necessary to smolder whether the apPlica titan of ma • sum as 16,000,0001. was required for the pupae elf mitigatiog the present calamity, and averting tie Paton bar a of Ireland, and whether or not the advantage to be derived was equivalent to the risk to be immured. (Hear, hear.) If he understood the noble lord's bill, its purport was this—to enable the treasury to demos, during the next four years, a maximum sum of 16,000,0001. The bill did not impose on the treasury an obligation to a dvance 'the retire sum, but still be must ob serve that all the calculations of benefit to be obtained from the employment of the people proceeded on the ainamption that the whole amoun t would be actually advanced. If, for instance, 12,000,9001. only, should be advanced in the four years, they must make a correspond ing redaction from the advantage to be gained by the employment. It should be observed, that the advance of 16,000,000 1 . was not limited to the railways which had beensanctioned ; if for those railways 12,000,0001. should be sufficient, there was a distinct power given by the bill to advance the remainingn,ooo,oo ol . for railways which might hereafter be approvW by the legislature. Not only was the treasury liable to advance this sum, but he believed there was a compulsion ; there would be no discretion rest ing with the Tremor', to withhold the money, provided the railway comminers certified that they thought Bee public benefit requited that the line should be made. Thus, all power was taken away from the department which was responsible to that house for the management of the public money. The hon. mem ber for Shrewsbury, had said on the previous evening, that there was a sort of f e ll o w-feeling pervading the minds of all persons who had the management of railways, and also the minds of Chancellors of the Bitheqner. He (Sir R. Peel,) confessed that he would rather have this power kept in the hands of the Treasury than see the salmi principle acted upon of leaving to the Treasury of this country the necessity of advancing the sum of 1 6 , 000,0001 . i s four y ears. (Hear.) Upon a certificate from a railway commission, in no way in terested in protecting the public, and perhaps indirectly In terested, from their fellow feeling in some smypethertie rail way matter, to tale a liberal view of railway undertaking', (laughter)—the money was to be advanced by the treasury. The certificate itself was not very stringent ; the words to be used were, " that the railway would be of public advantage and would afford beneficial employment for labourers." Nothing was to be said as to the certainty of repayment in the outdate authorising th e advasee. Now he would mk what was the prospect of repayment? (Hear, hear.) It had been generally assumed, in the course of the debate, that they . would at any rate get back their money at the exp iration of 30 years. But the litll widely provided that there should be paid to the state, during the 30 years, such•• sum of money as, in ease of an issue d Exchequer Bills, would meet the infarct which the public would have to pay on these bills. There was no such prevision in the bill as was inserted in the Drainage Act of last ondon ; them was no obligation imposed on the bor rowing oompany to provide for the gradual repayment of the money. (Hear, hear.) Last year they authorised the advance of money to encourage draining at as low a rate of interest as 31 per cent. • but it was provided that from the date (lithe advances the parties should begin to repay the principal ; that there should be an annual pay ment made of not lees than 61 per cent., so that two and twenty years would be required for the state to recover the principal. But under this bill, if they could borrow at 3 per cent., they certainly could not require the repayment of any portion of the capital until thirty years had elapsed. (Hear, hear.) Well even at that remote period—(laughter) — made, R financially, had be a certain pros. pun of genies back any part of the money? (Laughter.) By no Mail ; for there was power given to the Tree Pay to mien* the period for the repayment of any por tion of OM ISIS hired 30 years. (Hem, hear, and laughter.) Let the bow *tame bow that world operate on Patera railways. Dame was to be &public s marm*. wftt i m pa c t to all inmpiewe railways, that movididdreime wee a tolerably good senormose per ef its pay* • epistles shmeheidees, by :Mtip II rent. of their • end IlialllS ai nenway oommimisno*, sommitho * colors* Oat* Oat **** The dimeholdeeelosew that ray fee V bs min they would ad be Balk tit repay of the emetic ; they Wow ehg thee lower oi lseed *errantry, at the expoadige adihirty years, if the Illalliit did not prove profitable, to *Aug dadednitely the spend ÷illant , period of repayment. Last year they were al impressed with the danger arising from railway 'on • and at the beginning of the session the q was how they thoald impose restrictions on the ve 111101 a. (Hair.) Did they not all feel that the operation's( the money market for national prIMOON were, at the premet moment, I extensively interfered with by Miens! enterprise? The quesdon, then, was, whether they wield not limit the I amount of capital employed in railways, an idea which was abandoned, but which gave rise to grave doubts at the time. Now, with respect to Irish railways , let them just inquire what' this bill contemplated. ? It enabled the parties to oh ' tain from the Treasury an advance of 401. for every 201. con tributed by shareholders ; and it assumed that 30 years was the rm for which that money would be reqdred. Now, prepa te red as was to :make great swam to meet the pre , sent condition of Ireland, he must at once my that the beim- I fit proposed to be thus given to s h a reholders in Irish refl. ways, was more than could possibly ini juMilled. (Hear, bear.) He was perfectly aware that _they must kot judge the means to be now adopted in Dolma by the ealti nary rules of political economy. The Immures Proposed by the goverement were coo doubt open to grave - oblections, Newsiest ea 'tetrad principles ;rid poUlaly the bill of the noble Led was, on the whole, quite as dos from objections el *MI mosends as the proposal to vote money for the repair Of reeds Ilia other internal improvements. It was not, thereheo, en that ground that he (Sir R. Pee l ) toot his oh =the bill ; but he did lay, making every allowance L tie e audition, Mat the benefit proposed to be given to the shareholders in Irish reilereys would be unjust as rc. 1 specter& the part of the population unconnecte4witli those 'osculations. (Hear.) Now, his hon. friend beside him 1 par. Hudson) had taken great credit to himself for a clause in the bill enabling the railway companies to pay back out of the public money the advances of parties who had lent their capital on the security of their lines But what would be the effect of this ? The shareholders who were obliged to, pay up "bold incur certain debts and liabilities on moment of mart. (ego held by persons who had no share., and the first ap- Skidoo of the money of the people et England would be— fog what ? To enable thi se shareholders to pay off their illeridages and debts. (Loud ministerial cries of " Hoar, leerre.") And this was to be dote" bemuse," said the hon. for Sunderland, "it was desirable to clear the because the house would then have additional se ' be the discharge of the debt to the public." (Great " lo o" But then," said the hon. member for Sunder kat the English railways ! Some of then are borrowing money at 5 and 6 per cent."- -31 r. HUDSON.—No ; 41. Sir it. PEEL.—WeII, then, 44. Would the hon. mem ber be good enough to tell him what the Irish railways would be able to borrow money at? (Loud ministerial emery) " See what I have done," said the hon. mmber. "Such la the state of the money market in Great Britain Mat I base been able to raise capital to the extent of ten mtllisme within four months. In making my calls, I abso lutely lest money ; but I entered into these things from a knowledge that they would be useful to the country— , (laughter)—in don't impute to me any interested motives, for I✓amino shareholder in any Irish lines ; and though I will give you all the advice and assistance in my power, as for your shares I despise them!" (Great laughter and cheer ing.) But to whom, let him here ask, would accrue the profit which these advanoes of money for Irish railways would secure ? If his hon, friend held no shares, it was notorious that there were many other persons in England who were shareholders in Irish lines and, betides individuals, was it sot very possible that certain of the English railway com panies themselves were more or less directly interested in the projects of the sister kingdom? (Hear, hear, from the ministerial side.) The hon. member for Radnor, who had spoken in the early part of that evening, could not avoid referring to the profits which English lines would de rive from corresponding lines in Ireland. " See," said he, "what a profit there will be for the English railway companies. You cannot make lines from Dublin to Waterford or to Limerick without increasing the traffic in this country. Passengers and goods coming from the ex treme terminus will not stop half way. We shall have them same the channel ,increasing the resources and capital of the railways of this country." Well, and if English railways, paying 10 or 12 per cent., were such groat stakeholders in the success of Irish lines, on what principle could they ask him to advance publics money to increase the profits of a speculation which was, in fact, thus abundantly yingsup their own resources (Loud cries of " Hear, :' Supposing these Irish railways to be attended with all the profitable results the hon. member for Radnor had deamibed, would it be fair—would it be just—to impede the money market of this country, to impose fresh taxation upon our people, in order to give these shareholders at 34 per cent., the money for which they ought to be paying five ? (Loud andgeneml cheering.) Why,tming itthat six per cent. would be paid for these sixteen millions, raised by way of loan; in the money markets of the kingdom, there would be a clear gain to the shareholders of 2i per cent., or upwards of 25,0001. per annum on every million of money which the government advanced them. (Repeated cheers.) If, therefore, the probability was that English railways would make so much profit bythe extemism of Irish railways, they had better take bares in them aimieelves, if they have not done so already; and be earmesdyshorted them, with his hen. friend (Mr. Undated as* bead, to come ftiemend liberally and do that for booted's@ his boo. blend was now asking the government le t .Ebsraliy air *NIL (Cheers.) Bat, after all, continued the debt Ina beemat, Et this neemure were really a meneme tabulated, as the sable Lard believed, to be a great blimment for the regs. aeration et Ireland, be (Sir K. Pasi)ebeedd not be prepared ea e sto= d r ie tir i laic itiwwoullubteireut tie I =blidedielldbl, had so Much money, lbw *Oil nag spoil It gib iniidshely greater prospect of odomeoc he iboaamosibloamotooptiolly to feel doubt and lite. lierassecelcar fltsweekesi had adverted to a g a v i :Lich waseetbe very foandlikaeltbe whole 'tegument. I admit," said la, "Me truth age Admit principle that it is bolter to leave commercial selerPrile unencumbered by government or other interference. * * The hon. messier was no doubt right. The principle wee not only true, unkrenally, but, as regarded Engla,it wee particularly upt. in England the prospect of commercial gun was all bat infftwecd the speculator. He calculated the cost of his under taking—the capital which must be invested—the labour which most be u p o n sane ...mates be decided whether he could eafaly embark in the *theme or not. But haviag acknowledged the justice of the . principle, the hon. member drew back. " I acknow ledge, said he, " that it Is just ; but I do not ac knowledge its applicability to Ireland. There politi cal considerations must outweigh commercial considera tions, and there I do not think that these princi ples apply." That was the hon. gentlenme's argument, and that argument be (Sir R. Peel) was prepared to contest. In his judgment it did not appear, from the arguments and statements which be had heard, that Ireland Wu not an ex ception from the application of that principle, which was admitted to be abstractedly true of England. (Hear, bear.) He had listened attentively to the speeches which had been made in favour of the measure, and if the assumptions and statements of the speakers were correct, the ordinary opera tions of commerce ought to tempt the application of capital, and not only that, but it was the duty of Irish men to encourage it from their own resources. (Hear.) The noble lord the member for Lynn made this statement : He said, " Complete the Irish railways, complete 1,500 miles of Irish railways, and see what a bonus it will be to the Irish landlords ; the land on every square mile adjoining the rail ways will be improved, every acre in their vicinity will have a positive additional annual value of 10 per net. in the shape of rent." (Hear, hear.) Taking the number of acres that would be so improved, according to the calculation of the noble lord, it would give an increased annual rental of 1,900,0001., or, if converted into capital, not less than 23,000,0001. (Hear, hear.) 23,000,0001. to Irish landlords, to be derived from Irish railways! (Hear, hear.) Well then, why did not Irishmen seek to realise it. (Hear, hear.) They were willing to do every thing to relieve Irish destitution, and to improve, permanently, the moral condi tion of the labouring poor, and had they not a right, after the statement of the noble lord, to call on Irish landlords to give every facility to this enterprise, from which they would derive 23,000,0001.? (Hear, hear.) Then again, there were the Galway fishermen—the Claddahmen, es they were called—who, they were told, caught in one night, her rings which might be sold at a low rate for 4,0001. The noble lord the member for Stamford (the Marquis of Granby) said " See what • benefit railroads would be to these fisher men, who could then take their fish to Dublin and other places, and, instead of lying idle for three or four nights, at a lam of 4,0001. a night —Gaughter)—they would be able to catch fish every night to the amount of 4,0001." (Laughter.) Well, but wu not that also a matter of speculation and com merce f (Hear, hear.) Mr. HUDSON: There was no money. Sir R . PEEL.—There was the 10 , 000,000/. which the hon. gentleman had raised. (Loud cheers.) There was mone. (Hear, hear.) But he wished to know why, if thee rail roads were so profitable, British capital was not invested in them. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Shrewsbury said that political considerations overwhelmed the commer cial considerations; that shareholders in Irish railways found it too difficult to procure lend; that the tenure was too complicated ; and that there was much more diffi culty in that respect in Ireland than was experienced by English companies. He (Sir, R. Peel) would then m y—simplify the means of procuriig land. (Hear, hear. , The noble lord proved that great WNW& would be derived from it, lad that it would be lastinit — ike Irish landlords even to give the lead than fey i seetravagant sums for it. Let the ware of lend dm, on hair terms, be facilitated. He bairn& distmeddeci could be more easy than to do so. It had thee rat he ham saes of the Shannon navigation. This the gave the award and determined ON I 7 Owe general satisfaction. He knew flew ilellsolik • ffiuds were ; but he earnestly en- Anil& Ibeme is a friendly spirit, to consider whether Vane of Irish railways was not by affording I essery •kw e acquinng ef land? (Hear, hear.) OW advised em to press on the government the policy of r ambling the Railway Commissioners to deal with land 1 as they dealt with it in France and Belgium—namely by giving it at a fair award. But th e hon. member said 'that men were taken off the railways in Ireland by some party peeseasion, and that the men could not go to church or elstipol. What wee the care for these religions differences ? Whig, luring men together on the railway board, give tham sommon interest and they would forget these die esesiess. .Bat if Irishmen were to be taught that they Melded lam other claims of her Majesty's setdeets—that Mar VOW set tit to be trusted with their own 'mourns— *** they will do everything for them renew& animosities *mad prevail. (Hear, hear.) But enable them to take part in the concerns of their common country, and those religious animosities which sow obstructed the progress of eadererlo, these religious animosities would dine year, for Mugu and duty , would combine to Woes men to discourage the*. rear, boar.) hOse. g eotleman said that there was ari coa t mine in. Mallow, which if developed, and in the nefghbouthoordo:fpaisomuld be a source of great wealth. Well, thee, sot men of smite and capi tal eetioute the dodo the Mallow coal mine, sad 1,1 1 n oPital to boor (Hear, hear,) The US. mid that the Maeda would be stimulated, s" bat, 11 0 Undo answeresed. But he (Sir B. Yeariammelit ambled mhollosr, if they did overlay Irish sad Maya added proposed by ths bill of tie hard, It wmald beim the advantage of the bleb geellde.,„_ ow, Imari.i:lo44lMi the house to oh "T" =a• s ee to the eldest of the a Ode 'a oseposiums, Mom encouragement given la 1416 eateeprise sn hales wwwliacks• Loot year be himself mossolesi to adrowe sem of money to an-Irish rail way on the same prissiple n Spas: co mmercial enterprises. He was not prepared is tart'llsd.wberw dreadful calamity visited Ireland, it might sot be vim, under conditions, to give some encouragement told& mihways. But the noble lord proposed to give it thew/ream where railway bills had passed. ('` No, no.") Thu easoday they had was the leisure of the railway. Every rawer eampway is respect of which en Adelina, of monispilaM eg stast hare, it wall said, a certifluts ; but . the eartiliate da. shareholders lefasedtooleliensitaid l WlPlJlMOO Ina ta" the railway into their own beads and DWI aloaloolos of failure there wee no remedy against the sum of the share hoiden. He would opt my that they -1M Os aid rails— (laughter)—but they had the concern !that He was not averse to an occasional application of public capital to encourage certain enterprises here, and partici.- larly in Ireland. But what he deprecated was such a supposed encouragement as would paralyse individual ex et-len curl tic application of individual capital. (11^ar, hear.) He believed that an advance of such a snm of money by the government as would be doable the amount of capital absolutely subscribed would be an interference on the part of the government carried to such an extent es would paralyse individual exertion. (Hear, bear.) The noble lord might say that his estimate of a pro- halite demand of 7,000.0001. was crroneeus, notwithstanding the noble lord's proposition. He would not contest his esti mate of the number of persons whcwould' be employed, but he doubted, even if his bill pansedughakthe expenditure for immediate relief would be MatengMy lessened. Now, with respect to the employment which it would afford, he h eld in his hand a map of the railways which received the sanc tion of parliament, and he found that the observation of the Chaasellor of the Exchequer was correct, namely, that the railways were principally confined to the east. There were two email lines running immediately to the west, one from Sligo to the Shannon, for rich the estimate wan only 100,0001., and one from Limerick to Killaloo, the estimate I for which was 300,0001. There was no other railway in the west, except one in Kerry. In Donegal, Roscommon, Lei. trim, Sligo (except the small line he bad mentioned), Mayo, Galway, Clare, there was no provision made for railroads, so that there would be no employment for the destitute in these counties. He believed that men might come from distant parts to work on the railroads in other places, but when they had families it would be no small evil in itself, that they would have to leave them behind. Still making all allowances for these circumstances, the government would have to provide for the emergency in the present year in a large part of Irelaiel, and also to pro vide a substitute for the loss of the potato. (Hear, hear.) The result of the attempts at promoting ialand navigating. in Ireland by the aid of government had sufficiently demon strated the futility of such attempts ; had exhibited in the strongest light the great contrast between the effects of en terprises fostered by government grants and those under taken ana tarried on by individual zeal, energy, and indus try, even under the utmost difficulty and discouragement. By the Irish parliament the inland navigation of 'lreland had been exceedingly fostered, and on exactly the same grounds as those on which the hon. member now invited the house to give the enormous grant now in question. By the 25th Geo. 111. there was a corporation established for promoting and carrying on inland navigation in Ireland, the project being the magnificent one of uniting the Irish Channel with the Atlantic by means of a great canal, and the most glowing promises were made of the returns which would be realised by this fine speculation_ carried on by government assistance. The preamble of the act recited that such works being for the public benefit in the encouragement of tillage and the employment of the poor, it was fit and reasonable that they should be carried on at the charge of the country. What was the result of this grand scheme? That in 1787 the affairs had gone on so badly that the company were diseolved. (Hear, hear.) Did this result operate as a warning ? Not at all; on the con trary, the only effect was that another renal cempany of the sass description wag started, in the same way and the same masse, and in the same direction ; so that after awhile, there were two canals, the Royal Canal and the Grand Canal, both of them incomplete, running within • mile of each other in parallel lines. (Hear, bear.) The annual estimate for the new scheme was 188,0001., and the govern ment at first advanced 60,0001., and there was got together a mm of 134,0001. of subieriptione, and this others thought would suffice. By no means; further means were given, which proved equally inadequate, and at last in 1811, the affairs of the company being in utter confusion, there was • public inquiry into its history and condition. What was the result elf th is inquiry ? that up to that time no less than 186,0001. of public money had been granted to this canal with this effect, that the company owed 842,0001. beyond what it had received, and that it wanted a further heavy sum to proceed with its operations, altogether a very excellent specimen of the promotion of inland navigation by government aid. (Hear, hear.) The income of the company, it appeared, was 15,0001., the maintenance of the works requiring the annual deduction of 11,0001. from the amount, leaving • balance of 4,000/. towards paying the interest of the debt, to 49,6001. (Hear, hear.) Upon inquiry it = in J that the company had made dividends among he proprietors at a period when not only there had been as profits, but when they had been compelled to meet the in terest upon their past loan, and the payment of their perm& neat expenses by fresh loans. (Hear, hear.) The essersity then came to him, he being at the time Secretary Ibr In land. end said, u nless you give us 15,0001. the whale mak will be at an end ; the additional sum was granted* we the company from ruin, but unavailingly, for the ciasepay was dissolved . So much for the result of government inter ference in this grand scheme for inland navigation in Ire land. The career of Mr. Bianconi afforded a striking illustration, on the other hand, of what might be done without the slightest government aid by indi . victual zeal, ability, awl enterprise. toe 037 bof that career was given in Mr. Drummond's most aot report on Ireland , co n clusions as to railways, Peel) dlesentaxl fn;cn some of its . for the ability with heregeMed with the . >< hest informative.aduilmu°llwas er- Which its various and :'°'" valuab l e . . a productio . n which, though he (Sir R. singes..'.ir prescience it displayed. By tion of judicious meaty to well-cone. , of ranged, S i an ' an oo d ru Wi7oleheenterpr, . tes i d a t a red a u e a n w ds ese : th ed e .7 ti ll e iee o i the south of Ireland, and a great Pr. f4l, the west, had been, within the lest twenty years, toppliOt with the means of internal communication. His care no* traversed the crawroeds in every direction, securing regular intercourse between towns and places which, before hie time, had been utterly isolated from each other. Had this man any great &drainages ?—had he a large capital I—had he influential connections in the country ? By no means. On the unwary, he came into Ireland a total stranger, a Milanese, scarcely able to make himself under stood in t he language of his adopted country, and with just enough capital to start the one ear with which he com menced operations between Clonmel and Kilkenny. But fortune, or rather the due reward of industry and integrity, favoured him, and he increased the number of his cars until at length, when Mr. Drummond wrote, he had 94 cars in constant occupation, running a distance of 3,1100 miles a day—(hear, hear)—and this in a district which was ever described as the focus of wild violence and barbarism, where neither life nor property was safe, and where the exercise of honest industry mu out of the question. (Hear, hear.) Where would Mr. Bianconi's noble enterprise have been had he heeded such theories as these of the hon. member for Shrewsbury, instead of pursuing the course dictated by his own sound good sense and honest industrious impulses? (Hear.) Ho (Sir It. Peel) would entreat of the landlords of Ireland to imitate the example of Mr. Bianami, end depend upon themselves. If they felt really oonviaeed that railway enterprises would add to the value of tlieir li =ety and lame& their country in any thing like the rignemedul by the melte member for Lynn, let them %Mate the ocenprien ea* lend for this pur pose; let them do their unwed tas p e wee sad party and reli gious animosities , and to primmate pewee sad the security of life and property ~ let than eve innenees to their own per • sons of praitiW disinterminftles, of practise& benevolent*, of energy, of mod, of industry; let them net in common concert, forgeW af vellgiame er pelitkal date cos, fee the removal of all OMNI impeihnenmerbiihbedlitherie steed is the way of Iridt pregame soda( dm maid mei morel tregneve meat of the Winona dependent upon diel Mai Sher =de met good . ; they would do none by ite in a o ie • spar, casting all the blame upon other people, and Pii their whole wretched reliance upon government grantr and government ratronagc. (Cheers.) Lord G. BENTINCK replied. He said that Mr. Bian cud and his cars seemed a standing stock in trade with the right hon. baronet. When in 1839 Lord Melbourne's go vernment proposed a scheme for railways in Ireland, t h e right hon. baronet made a speech, nearly the same in words with that which he had been delivering for the last half hour. Whilst in this country there were 2,600 miles of railroad ; in Belgium 375 miles ; whilst la Austria and Germany there wen 3,000 miles of railroad, and in the United States of America 3,200, in Ireland. where enterprise had been left unaided by the government, there were but about 123 miles of railroad. (Cheers.) Would the house then listen to the policy of the right hon. gentleman or to his (Lord G. Ben no& a) 'proport ion , and let the government come in aid of private enterprise ? (Hear, heer.) The right hon. gentle- man had entered into the finances of the country, but had failed to show tluit the proposed measur e would inflict atty great tax on the country. He said they would require 7,0 00 , 0001 . sterling fey Ireland, but be forgot that that sum was to be paid in unproductive works. He (Locd 0. Sentinel) pro posed to wend 4,000,0001. of money, to be railed on the credit of the government, to which two other millions would be added from private capital, and of the 6,000,0001. two-thirds would be expended in labour. Thus, the plan he proposed would deduct to the extent et 4,000,0001. from the sum which the government would otherwise expend. (Hear, bear.) As to the exchequer-bills, the price of which the right hon. gentleman intimated would be raised, the proposed measure would but make a difference of 270,0001. a year in that respect, whilst the right hon. gentle man did not object to support the government plan, with an army of 11,000 Oman at the annual oast 6178,0001. (Hear, hear.) ti The pa n, . genstemea had takes credit for the semis the royal emedl, but he (Lead te.v=, did not before know that he was Irish Scare ' qty in 17111, when the bill for that canal passed the legisla ture. (A tabgh.) There was, however, no calculation, it [ weal& eggser, or estimate whatever made with ielhiaana - 16 that undertaking. The right honourable answering the speech of his noble friend rr an' ember , for Stamford, had said that if it were tree that railways would be so useful to the fishermen, why sot the fishermen make the railways ? What, did he expect the pose reed to make the railways 1(" Oh, oh.") It our only lea your that the rightirw. baronet himself pro s .asenhe the amineuee 4 thine 6M:sem (Hear, =. l ) ba eltierten km. bernme Whims found to in t be • bet nothing 4 that wee ft be found in the . bill' before the lessee The honourable .sisinifies Kilkenny had told them that one ass* of the It wan aterviog, but still the right boa. weleht nerelem the emu which be hod gresileed memeiesesift lin . men yawn The right him. breast lisi pessed neillie (Lewd 0. Bentinek's) heenelsi Mite ismilitiZie a heWot sines, which showed datioefteed of Wall" kis plan would add six Sr erveshandred pl ea mad pomade to the Dugs of ( three, but in that pl bed now rue the gin s ef lhrimillars et the ezehequer and ow ei=e ,he tailed that be slight rely on Amine the (Hear.) The right hcat.paselif 'the rlght Chan ' ease of the • . said that the railways to be [ embied were an eon meet ahlinthe distills our Y the wen t Ask had IV never crocturefillei Om right lee. bises* theklio poseinse of the railways atilW eguang he 160 &nose et Oh M itre e=? (Hear, hear.) Mistier; mbeiv was there risfira dine than In Cork ? and yet bur oi -1 armed ken MO city. (Hear t hear.) Hi bill NW to Died railways he the wen, but, if it became law, line wee not a county in Iceland which would not be b y eafterads. As (Ifeest,ear.) The right bereent bad also lainned them that theigal valid le peat difficulty hi rag, ye - messy; but did he recollect that daring: the War yen ot the war we I spent 103 millions a yeas, and that hit year Irndllioni were I shut up is awaits Who Omit or Chewer/. (Beer, hear.) ThThe rightkon benne talked of the dint en the funds; but e year, after railway bills to the anaemic of 124 'millions had the hail, which in June were 93 per cent., in December toe, to 97. But gemming money had already 1 1 " - been advanced in Ireland with the most beneficial multi. In three towns there were 140,00 W. gained by the revenue, 'which was greater than the amount which had been laid amt by the government. When the government of the day thought fit to spend a million and a half in the construction of the Caledonian Canal, it was a dead loss to the state. Why so ? Because they did not go on the principle in which this measure was founded : they did not come for ward with their money to 'stimulate the private enterprise ; ' instead of that, they undertook the work themselves. (Hear.) There was no attempt made by this measure to interfere with any private railway; all the obligation that it imposed on companies was, that they should provide suit , able dwellings for the labourers. That the right hon. gentlemen altogether overlooked. He said that they could not send for labourers ; but when they made suitable provi. sien for them, would not labourers come from Msyo and Galway to Athlone, or to the South Western Railway, or to any other, on the same ground that 24,000 of them came from Ireland to Liverpool;? (Hear.) What were the most im poverished districts in the county of Cork ? Skibbereen and Bantry. Lately there were fifteen inquests held in one day in the latter place, and the fare front Bantry to Cork was but one shilling. What difficulty would there be in sending them to Cork, when, if this bill were carried, there would be four railways in operation? (Hear, hear.) The hon. member .at Lincoln told them that if the govern. ment had assented to this bill he would have undertaken yesterday week to have employed 50,000 men on railways in Ireland. Out of that number he would have employed 7,000 on the Belfast, Drogheda, and Haven Junction. He had received a letter the other day from one of those kind and benevolent sisters of charity who, both fearless of con tagion and thoughtless of self, bad done so much good to imiusge the miseries of Ireland--he alluded to the daughter of the Protestant Bishop of Meath, who thanked him in the name of the Irish people for having brought forward this measure, and in order that he may believe the real state of things in that part of the country, she sent him a sketch of the horrors which had come under her notice. One cam she mentioned was of a cabin with the roof broken through, no tire in the chimney, the woman of the housej tat dead after childbirth, and a child six years of age lying dead beside her, the father of the family lying dead also on straw, with rats hovering about him. In the cottage there was nothing for man and beast to eat, the newly born babe was without covering, whilst another young child was in the death struggle. This, the lady con tinued, was but a faint idea of what occurred every day. These occurrences took piece in the very town in which, if this bill was allowed to pass, the hon. member for Lincoln bad engaged yesterday week to employ 7,000 men. (Cheese.) Were they thus, for the sake of avoiding the loss of one half penny or a farthing on Exchequer bills, to lose the lives of their fellow-creatures? (Cheers.) Wherever railways were iu operation, no distress existed. He received another letter which was addressed by the Rev. Mr. Minnings to the Bishop of Meath, and by which he thought the rout would ou P r be touched u a ch t ed le ar Onee of witr e pity m f e o m r b re p o eo f pl t e lm o t f Irelai.d. He stated in his letter that 10,000 men were look ing to him for assistance. Very few of them had a meal a day, and they were for the most part destitute of clothing. When they came to him for help, he said to there " Oh, boys, why do you come to me when you know that I cannot help ou?" to which they answered, "We come to you only excuse we know that you pity us." Would they, under such circumstances, through a fear that they may create a slight distsrbauce in the money market, withhold their assistance from these people ? He had several other letters front Ireland, which were only repetitions of the same slate of things. The hon. gentleman, the member for Mays, objected to this measure the other night because he thought that because he voted against catholic emancipation, nothing should be ac cepted from him ; he would, however, take leave te say, to his great satisfaction and gratification, that he was able to tell the hon. gentleman that he received the thanks of the la meeting that ever assembled in the county ' of yo, and a vote of thanks was moved by a Roman Cstholic, whilst the Raman Catholic bishop of the diocese, Dr. M'Hale, was present at the meeting. The Rev. Dr. Minnings had also said that his (Lord G. Ben tack's) plenweald de snore good ina month than Lord J. Rue sell's measures would do in years ; for it would give em ployment to those who required it, without injuring any party. He had presented petitions that day from the coun ties of Down and Armagh, and had received since a letter from the coroner of Newry, all concurring in the opinion • • • --- s.- --,-- —., 50“..) , would confer Ree l!'" " 1a'...'."." ' li r "tii; 'pe .— Top e of Ireland, said .. 4 7hTit'i:idiiaatiltwtl the l liw giving was best ep t i; t pu cha ri: nn ia f et h credit dtot perma n ent e v m r eeemr o themselves,grans, 6eree:i n at cbety w mh a ,ees en , " i , and o fr omve hir tbdr e driesbind o hf.ow oul dn finding a ll:lSu , ii l'ibro: : leni' : t: ne l l la:erifd encourage c a i r o e "c :w o Cind p i which kM ll I job- pCaiki°l4. bong, he had a right to assume that it was one that deserved the (avow of the house. (Hear.) lie woo prepared to meet and refute every statement made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who, be regretted to find, hod been com pelled by illn ess: to leave the house. The r.ght ho nourable gentleman lied said that the bill would put the rotten and unproductive lines on a par with the good and productive. His object was not to give a fictitious vela, to bad schemes, but to give support to the weak. The Greet Ulster line of railway had been for a period of at least ten years dragging its slow length along, and had only been able to cocußtheill twenty-four miles of its whole length, and yet that line carried more passenger , in proportion to its mileage than the London and Birmingham line. This as well art other lines showed the necessity of some such aid. It was his object to as every line which offered good security for the money advanced. Brat when it was said that be wished to put the bad lines on an equality with the good it was con • teary to the fact. (Hear.) The government must be paid off before the shareholders got anything, and while the weak line would pay nothing to the sham capitalists, on the good lines there would be a good per tentage. There was nothing, thee, in the argument that his bill would tend to entourage gambling and speculation in unproductive lines. If the eimindmiosen should be wanting in their duty, par liament would address the crown to remove such incapable officers or even the minister himself. (Hear, hear.) They must Mart that there was reasonable security for any senate ef Emmy they recommended, or that advance mid not be ads. It wassaid that government must not &kends raortygess who had a prior claim; but it must be recollected that me seimpsity sonkl. be regarded ea in a condition to bor row manor _,. mftiest had not one-half of their capital paid up. Beata whisk there were not three railways in Ireland under . The right honourable baronet the masher far araworth and other right honourable gentle- fee had said that twenty or thirty seen would he the average number employed per mile. Why it would take as many men to make a turnpike road—(hear haul— and the right hoe. baronet did not certainly get his l ' oetbeeitl for that statement from Mr. Brunel, whose latieseny proved the very reverse. (Cheers.) He held in hb hand a letter from a director of the Waterford and Kamm Mae, is which he said that the statement of the Chested* of the Exchequer respecting the employment of labourers set that line was not borne out by the facts, and must have Men sae on erroneous information, as all the able-bodied laboemes SR the iit were employed, and that Mr. Hammond had sr sur him that the relief committee at Thomastown hei . quite a sinecure of it, except when the weather was too bed . to admit of full labour on the line. (Cheers.) Another gentlemen, writing on the sane al Nett, said, that the working of the line at the lam Irma whisk ha wrote had been stopped for want of ramie, and OM the s traps •: , who had been employed there were now fining fr. b r „„ E house in large bodies, insisting upon food or money , . required the presence of additional military and polies. that the affect of the railway beim; under construction, ins to render the relief committee a sinecure and the effect of • its being stopped for want of funds, the reinforcement of the military and police to keep the peace. (Hear, bear.) He had another letter. ("Oh, oh," and divide.) This was a question of vital importance to Ireland and the hon. and learned member fo r Cork had stated the other night that 25,000 Christians had perished from starvation, end that two millions more would perish from pestilence, he hoped. N. therefore, that late as the hour was, the housti would allow him totem to thou English membe rs lobo did not know thae„, (for liss bid members did not need to be told thet sass are le pagend would employ the people of . . te He had a Wier from the secretary of the Mi Weiler* Sawa et Indeed. His hon. friend the member for Shrews bury bad Mammel if the railways in the north and the • Lon . member fkir Radnorshire had of the I Great Western ad flostbent, and it win only Per him to , eta with the W aterford and Limerick sae Dublin i ' sag Melengar. (The noble lord then teed ths letter, • I whisk was to the effect that it was a Iffilltilke to and lab:labourers ea that line were not takes ems tits , hresgh what it passed • they were not &Ma or sad, with a little pu and and better bed, they ; weal tempts with the Eng li sh and Scotch. The best , gaol : et it that during the harvest the labourer's wish 'Maltase per cent., and the engineer was obliged to ~. ll,eitherelibusnesirmonentheisigasisitsdintbbdi:lnligensarveetbieuth.gmhaTttenhthienreaetn:bwwaretkbeitzolam, mig . a d h strOt t a ; ei fbees coth in uel talen. vee nd owa : •. swifter 6,000 additional for the next fifteen months for tise be to Athlone. There was a plan for an et sedamidenvemielainienagochOtatmAthilibeimimmiasemir wi th . O r 1 a .... r e d it :re imma y wl ew it its w image.r old t b l l t - . ~ aa g Oster ahissehr rISII. lihs the Dublin and Ham Be Wished Is cal the attention D o r fte7 da hea. member hs Ilassmileint, Mat les Hoe mead traverse kis county. - sail lam thie miessiant pasta Oen .W la e 0 PesetoSt dth ai timari on l"Re t d bi onties eoest .. e liallig reseni vif zia oll o 7 ll" :era the y y qiiiantalytheilwthe:aniodyusiradi'nnetoe...,f Zooo:lllllbs.7thwuiperesoles4i:y.: and eterimeengh, and it amounted to te,002 tons ; wino , at M. • pewee. or is. ed. a stew woad tip the th at. novey ar 1111114100 L. yea; have btem nieril vadeL ef whisk atear itr l , beatr lFl He had a bass from Mr. stemmas, the wage's', which was to the seat that the amortise that Ili or 110 OM 11 r, mile, wade be smillehat to complies sal nilaWq hi ego"' three years, was se monstrous that it mail ma hem beta state_t ., l any eangsenatsegineer. TM ihniegema liell her plea gad ha to lossthawed an 3 1 7WIllatlisiler sal Lae Beaway, 10,600 asell mes i ., a m * employed !es rusk haw Me men ger sea Xvall . the wee had been ths rise on the Nara WOW, misers , ' lines. The met pot WY eta line was mainly spent b love , labour; in the prepeetha of 10 to 16 out a tke Imo sett • - (Hear.) It was, - thenare, entirely contra/I m o bet gra MI .1 that Baeand was dant to be taxed for the 0 be• .• land; ihr ef as mew expended, a tamakhrebis pOldst woad he _pall ia this country hr issamativesomara carriuges ; Mr. calculated diet of the outlsy would be thus spent ; the 1.111611. ing two.thirM would go to the employ of Irish Wag.