The Express. — London, England, 1853-04-13 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS.—TiESDAT, APRIL 12. The Lone CNANcet.t.ok took his seat at 5 o'clock. PETIIIOSS PRESENTED. tkorc it Withs.—By Lord CAMPBELL, from the royal burgh ot F..res in Mewl iiid, praying that the process of proving Seireh wills in Engl.in.l might be simplified. Isaverviiis OF St . :a:sante:S-1;y the Earl of ENNIS KILLEN, from Ashley,. Lichfield, and other places, in favour of. Pnee Di4ritlitrTioN OF PALLT.IIAMENrADA PArEDA.— By the E of HARJU/WRY, from Billiton and other places; Lord BEHNERS, from Woodehurch, in Shrop shire and another place; In favour of. Com , DATIDN uP LONDON.—MAA from the Ward of Billin ;Nate, praying fur a retsina of the Corporation of London. CANADA CLitlioY RIENIERVIE—ANA from Clergymen in Canada, again.! the Clergy Reserves 15,11. THE SITE OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE IN HYDE PARK. Lord CAMPBELL wished to put a queation to his noble (rips Ifh Pri.selent of th Council, of which he bad given him hal hoped that in e.r.sequenee of the Crystal Pal see toeing removed from Hyde park to a much IBM appropriate site, the Park would before now have bees re.r.rA to its former mate, and that the public grealg he aide to resume the privilege which they had long ssioyed, of wilting and riding there. Ile believed it we, part of the contract under which the c .vcrnmeat agreed that the Cryst d P dee° shoal I he erectv,l, that hy Novem• bee, Pril, it should he completely removed . They were sow wised at the month of April, 1853, and although the structure wan removed, the bite remained in a rotate utterly deplorable. Per ons riding there sentad to be riding a steeplechase, fir they met with the moot estraordinary ota "ado* in the ships of stones, and drains, sad ruins, still to he saes there, and which naturally excited the alarm of Ouse who were not very skilful in the management of their berms. One of the great lungs of Loudon was now over. with tubercles, and fie wishes' to know what the in of the government was upon the subject. lle hoped he should bear from his noble friend that Hyde-park was . . 'mo- odily to be reitored to its former state. Earl LiK.%N VILLE was happy to find that the discus. lions which he had, in the somewhat amphibious character cif • member of her Majesty's government end a royal com missioner, to carry on with the Lord Chief Justice—always la a fnendly spint ow his side—w. re drawing to a close. He had also the great malefaction of knowing that their dif ferences were on so small a scale ; and be thought the answer which he was about to give to his noble friend would entirely remove what little diCrenee yet remained between them. (A laugh.) The royal trorimiseinnen had been es anxious oa any one could be to restore:the site to its former state for the enjoyment of the puhlic ; end he thought when he showed their lordabips that bundle of letters—ibuldirg up a large parcel of papers] —they would sae that they bail not been backward in their marrespondence with a view of attaining that end. But the contrectors—whether from exhaustion, in consequence of the really marvellous energy which they showed in erectirm the builuing in the first log Me.. or whether they bad been to much engaged in other great undert akiags since, he did not know—but from aims cause the commis sioners had been unable to obtain from them the fulfilment of (heir elgutement, and they had at last felt it duet the public to apply to the It mill of Works to put the site in order thentse.rea and make the zontraetora liable for it. An application had accordingly been Trade to the First Com iniesioner 01 Public Works, when it was found that he bad already given instructions that such • coarse should be adopted. lir, therefore, hoped that in • short time the site would be restori d to such a stair as it would he pleasing to 'view ft ru the front of his noble and learned friend's house, though it would, he feared, deprive him of any further op portunity Mc:Moiling those feats of daring horsem nship fav which he had beets of late so remarkable. (Much htmghter.) VACCINATION EXTENSION BILL. Lord LITTELTON, in moving that the house go into committee on this bill, sail that its object was to make vac cination compulsory; and the machinery fur carrying it into effect must be some plan of registration. It would be needless to dwell on the importance of the general subject; nor was it requisite iu these days to inculcate the univer sally-admitted efficiency of vaccination as • preventive of the smallpox. Some few facts might, however, be inte resting; and he must, in the outset, state that he was in debted for the information which he would attempt to lay *fore the boon to this report of tome learned and able persons connected with the lipiiimiological Society, of which Sir Benjamin Beattie, Dr Bright, Dr. Southwood Smith, and other eminent men, were members. Vaccina tion was drat established about the beginning of the 17th century; and looking to the last 50 years of the last century sad the first 50 years of the present century, the result al - =to be that in the 10 y- ors ending 1760 the deaths rs smallpox were 100,000; in the next 10 years, 108,000 ; in the next, 93,00 ; in the next 87,000; and in the last ten years of that century, 88,000. In the present seatury, taking the first 10 years, the deaths from small pox were 64,000; in the next, 42,000 ; in the next 37,000; in the next, 73,1100; and in the lest 10 peers, 16,00 0 ; showing • diminution from 108,000 down ta 16,000, end there had been a continued pro genitive decrease. To look at single cases it would ap pear that since the year 1837 there h id not been any small pox where vaccination was practised. In one population, that of • vilade near Wells, there had not been any case of small-pox. Bince the establishment of the Royal - Military School at Chelsea, where vaccination was practised, 48 years had elapsed, and 31,705 children had been vaccinated, of whom not one had died from small-pox. In some districts of India, vaccination, which was introduced there in 1817, had become general in 1021, and since then smallpox bad not been heard of. In Hanover, in 1817, out (1(45,830 cases there had only been 8 deaths front small-pox. In Denmark it was said, at one time, that small pox had entirely disap peared. Compare the state of Eugtand and Wales with that. England and France were the only countries in Barope in which vaccination was not compulsory, directly or indirectly. Ile had no figures as to France, but the result there, he had bees thld, was very similar to that in this country. In Hanover, Bavaria, Sweden, and Prussia, vaccination was compulsory by means of pecuniary penalty, which was the means be proposed to adopt in the bill be fore the house. In Holland no one was allowed to enter a public school, or receive alms who bad not been vaccinated, sad in Prussia no one was allowed to be married who had net been subjected to the same process. Taking two ex treme cases ; in Ireland in tea years ending 1811, 68,006 prom died of small pox, and in th e second ten years, no great improvement had kin place. The worst part of Irelaad was Cemaaught, which he mued take as one es trum, and against it he would select Lombardy where the material c ond ition of the people was but little inferior to the population of this eosatry, but there vaccination was adopted. Now, daring ten years ending in 1841 the number et deaths is Coaumaglit from mill pox had bees sixty in a theasand, whilst in Lombardy there bad only been, in the same time, three deaths is two that sand. In Enabled Lad Wales rasoptlag Is.. land and Scotland, whisk Miter eosaa7 was bet little better the • amber el Mae teem this disease were 22 In a tleessd ; whereas in soantrlai where ea:Moieties waa sompabeep. the average was from lye to eight in a thousand. The mortality, therefore la this Niamey was mono them har time as groat as ilium countries he bad abided to. lbw wiled was the state of the law t In every ease sheds= might he taken to a Medical steer sad embalm/omi the melba UM sod boards se gosrdime hod awe their bed le alltin the alba la taw s hot with ems imp eadelmang 'emit. Ile waged le add the plaelp_le of sampabisie , whit be was ossidsot veal he sillooded with the rasa leassisial sessequsesse. The geemel @gam was most debates: It was inept'', woeseelik nal mogul in ateremals. The last nano Awed bet lie see of births regbeered for the twelve olealba maks to flogdeseher. 1863, was whila the teal sambas of dabs. emanated was 397.121. Them could hardly be band a union where the pressen =worked with regularity. It appeared that in the glum union 91 per amt. were nominated; is itomer ealshire, I I per mat. ; et baits" is Heat, 11 pee float; I. Witteldre, en V 6 pee sent. • sad in It. James% Web wiliNaer, in 1661, eel of 973 b port erths, there had that less wag 44 Eels• of mamas.. The re stled s deka after birth sedengemd life. In a IMO, there every hod lim W a 9.714 deaths la /lingteadasmi Wake from riperhamil 1,11110. or II per seat. of the whale, died tiader Ms menthe o s t lis m la the bill es it semi there was a dean whisk hs e 5.1..... : • . ... A41 wooid bo inwoormst as re eirematiem h that all Wane, _sod, in bead be esespened to be vassinne=le m e a pretty. thought it woad he ma ma& that a salsa ebeald he given by the essimmar of laths le all rafts se wisdoms. their arum, bat it WPM bo salworbeed to impose • penalty m thaw tar not rM gifted Miss. The bill would anima 'sly to ..4 wd..4lssimail end lissilmed he osaid not although the Islis goessameat bed aegemeed a wish a magrabery misseare skald be emembil ft hawed. raped to the Importation of psalms who wen set told that a large umber of pumas of M drailleirsee Iss was to be hued I. the sommea biabgbeams. es. thought the begat = shwa have= mew. to owns the embalms them. wee emellbee pidat tower nrwiehel is dined the aimmisa of sir lieMiliMillat, and that was the Naveyeam of maffill-pen patina to capitals, which required regale **. How laid that Mere were difficulties I. the way of a mama gam of ionsioation, and that the *setae of the poor Io bows Ihemoshes and their children vaccinated woe that the gams was so much mixed up with the peer law, and that if it was separated ham the admfaistratima of the Poor-law Board, it !NU work better. Ile egad sot introduce say bill for oat is relations I. ibis ought e° as to tarry out a system 1 he amid sall point it oat to the gewommat With regard to °ldeation" which had been ..6 is dm 1111, such as that the indiction of • penalty weak, me mom vaccination to be adopted, he could only say that mast per sons would rather have the moinaticia perfumed than pay the penalty ; but, at any rate, It was all that moil as done. It was mid that the establishment of a system of compulsory vaccination would be wide* interference offiffil the liberty of the subject; but to allow ialostisa to amp tinue in a town by the want of vaccination Medi be 1104 'anal offence. Adverting to the disagnembis ea** of the payment of medical officers of unions, he mold catty may that the elan of paying them for vaccination was • part of the system of their payment; but he could not help prem ise on the government this fact, that if it was made worth the meilivil mares while ell ovi.t the country, any necessity fora co.ngtal•ory 53 stein of vateinattin would be done sway. The noble bed boacluded by stating that there were • number of alterations In the bill, but he thought it best to state them io committee. The Baal of StIAIILSBUBY (who spoke in a very low tone of voice) was understood to say, that when tha evil effects of small pox were considered, and that the system of voluntary vaccination had been tried and failed, there was every ground for a compulsory message, which was se cessary to save the community from the ranges of that frightful disorder. With regard to the voluntary system it appeared by the returns that of all the births registeMtli only one child in three was vaccinated, and that it was often imperfectly done, and that wnall-pox was on the increase. Ile hoped the house would go into committee on this bill, and if it passed he had no doubt that genera. tions to come would be thankful fur the passing of such a measure The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII said that he must confess that the present law on this subject, which he had introduer4 some years ago, had not worked as well as was expected—and lie thought a case had been made out for its amendment. He bad no objection to a compulsory system of vaccination, but he thought that if the poor were coin , pelted to be vaccinated, every facility should be given for carrying out the system, and that their prejudices should be consulted. He should propose a clause which might be inserted in the beginning of to bill, and the principle of which might be adopted under the law as it now stood. There was nothing to prevent its being practic tble in every ease, that vaccine should he taken front the arm of a healthy child ; for there was a strong prejudice against its twills Wien from any other source. In his (Lord Ellen borough'..) neighbourhood the board of guardians had divided the union into smell districts, and a surgeon attended at certain stations, on certain days, for the purpose of vaccinating patients, of which due notice was given, an I the consequence had been that there had been a great increase of the number of persons vaccinated in each year. lie should be dispued to adopt the plan pursued in other countries, and fix a penalty on the ad mission of children into schools who were not vaccinated; awl he would go further, a d enact that any person apply ing fur relief to a Board of Guardians should be examined, and if he hail not been vaccinated, and refused to be vacci nated, that relief should not be granted. Them should We care taken against the admission of young persons not vacci nated into manufactories, and, indeed, generally into all places where a number of persons were assembled; and there should be lowers given by law to compel all such per. sous to be vaccinated. ll* would propose to the noble lord that his and all the other amendments to the bill should be pYnted, and then that it should be recommitted on another day. Lord LYTTELTON acceded to this proposal; and, - - Alter a few words from Lord RILDPADALI, The house went into committee on the bill, and the clauses, with the amendments as suggested by Lord Lyttel ton min the Esti of Elleabormigh, were speed to, and the, bill was ordered to be recommitted. The Metropolitan Improvements (Repayment of Advances out of Consolidated Fund) Bill was rnd a third time and and passed i Thtr lordabips adjourned at 25 minutes to 7 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-TVESDAT, APRIL 12. The SPEAII3a took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. RAILWAYS. Mr. CARDWELL postponed his motion respecting the made of proceeding with railway and canal bills until Friday seat. NUNEATON, HINCKLEY, AND LEICESTER ~ . . THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 13, '853. RAILWAY 'BILL. On the motion forticereeoncireading of this bill, Mr. FREWEN moved that it be read a second time that day sic months. _ - - Mr. PACER supported the second reading, considering that its operation would be beneficial to that part of the country which it wu proposed to accommodate. Mr. SPOONER hoped the house would agree to the bill being sent to a committee. Mr. OLYN thought the bill wu very objectionable in many points of view, but would agree to its being referred to a select committee, if only for the purpose of investi gating into the truth of the allegations made by this com pany against the Loudon and North-Western Railway QOM. party. After some further conversation, the house divided, when there aupeorei— Fur the second reading Against it The bill was consequently kat. The following bills were read a second time : Ballymena, Ballymoney, Coleraine, and Portrait Junc tion Railway ; Birkenhead Dock Trustees, Chatham and Canterbury Local Railway ; Forth end Clyde Junction Riilway ; South Devon and Tavistock Railway; South Staffordshire Railway ; Stamford and Brandin@ Railway. AT fiLONE ELECTION'. Mr. BRAMSTON reported t. - the house that the com mittee on this election had decided that Mr. Keogh was duly elected for the borough of Athlone. -------------- ------- TYNED&OuTH ELECTION. The committee appointed to inquire into the return for Tynemouth was called to the table and sworn. ___- NEW WRIT. Oa the motion of new writ was ordered to be ismed for Athlone, in the room of Mr. Keogh, who, sines his election, had accepted the office of Solicitor-Ge neral for Ireland. COCKEBMOQPII ELECTION COMMIITEE.- COMMITTAL OF A WITNESS. Mr. HAMILTON reported that he bad committed a wit nesa named William Crow into the custody of the Sergeant at-Arms, in consequence of his appearing before the com mittee in a stato of intoxication, for prevaricating, and otherwise misbehaving himself in giving evidence. On the motion of the same bon. M , it was ordered that the witness stand committed to the Sergeant-at-Arms for the said offence, and that the Sergeant-at-Arms should bring him before the committee as often as he should be required. KILDARE COUNTY ELECTION. The SPEAKER intimated that he had received a cum. munication muting that it wee not intended to proceed with the petition against the return for the county of Kildare. — DARTMOUTH ELBCTION. Mr. MILES attended at the bar and reported that the committee on this election had decided that Sir Thomas Herbert was duly returned for Dartmouth at the last election. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. ADMISSION or Jaws TO PAILLIAMENT.—By Sir J. EAST, from sixty clergymen of Winchester and its vici nity ; Mr. ALCOCK, from clergy and deanery of God stool; Sir 0. HEATHCOTE, from Rydall, Rudandshire ; Mr. PORTAL, truss Overtoo, in Hampshire ; Mr. COB DEN, from Skipton; Marquis of STAFFORD, from • place in Sutherland; Col. BLAIR, from the Presbytery of Ayr; Sir J. BAILEY, from Crickboorel and =other place; against. Ten Ativnimentexter DvrY.—By Mr. MUNDY, from the monition of the Derbyshire Adstertiser ; Mr. HUTT, two, signed William Stephenson, one from him as proprietor of a newspaper called the Hall :Yeses, and the other as pro prietor of the Eastern Counties Herald : Sir 0. GOOD. MAN, from Messrs. Edward Baines and Sono, of Leeds; Capt. SCOBELL, from Meagre. Keene, editors of the Bath Journal; for repeal of. OPINING OF THZ CRYSTAL PALACI ON SINDLY.—. By Mr. MUNTZ, from Ripley and soother place in Derby. shire; Mr. DAVIES, from inhabitants of New Church, Coemeedinetire ; Mr. PORTAL, from Overtoo, in Ramp abbe ; fir. CU BITT, from the tion o6indopma eats at Andover ; Mr. FOLEY, working am of Cradley ; Lord R. GROSVENOR, from w OMB and artisans of districts of St. Bartholoatevr e fray' road), St. Jude ' s (Chelsea), and St. Jude'. aseres) By Mr. COBDEN, from 216 artisans Lotadory Laraia lit 247 earpeatere, printors, sad ether truism* of Load= ; Mr. SCHOLEFIELD, from artisans of Louisa ; Sir J. SHELLEY. from 1$ on the Great Western Railway, WI i llas s e rl= 7.l 6 odious and Mentors of Looks, artisans, hears e, desks, mad thognos of Dover, 283 Grams, clerks, and obi= lasifios.mooksaics sad others of the City of NS pill llll ow of Looka. SS Minos sod Moues of Loa dos. 129 Mobiles% of Loam. IN da-pislo masa of Looi 111 heinous of Loorboo, idiom Ed blouson of shamus and Mown of Lead= melds sad ethers of abs lowa of Subedits, EH sad labourers of Queen's Ea* sear Halifsz, 139 Mims and labourers of Howl*, Nerthowsbarland, 2111setissas, labourers, showman and industrious classes of lieulawd, Yorkshire, 466 artisans and others of the City of Loudon, 359 bookbinders of London, 140 of the industrious dome of the town of Abingdon, 420 dyers and others of Sniffled, Yorkshire, 200 artisans and labourers of Barrhead, ler frewshire ; Mr. W. A. WILKINSON, from 283 brew fouuden and others of London, and 228 bookbinders and othen of London ; in favour of. Cu, or EDWARD MURRAT.—By Mr. SC HOLEFIELD, from inhabitants of London ; Mr. A. PELLATT, from nu merous inhabiteals of the metropolis; Mr. OLIVEIRA, toss petleleme, IMO *dad by 312, the other by 177, from the neetespolis and IN Tidaity ; praying for his release from velem Ensurro' COURTS (SCOTLAND) BILL. —Mr. CRAU TURD, from inhabitanta of the town and parish of Beith, smutty of Ayr; Mr. G. DUNCAN, from the Chamber of Commerce of Dundee ; praying for amendments in. CANADA Rzenayne BHA.— By Sir G. MONTGO MERY, from the presbytery of Kircaldy ; Marquis of STAFFORD (2) from the presbytery of Dornock, county of Sutherland ; two from the presbytery of Terrain, County of Rae-shire ; ens from the presbytery of Tongue, county of Sutherland; against. ATTORNIRS' Clan/WATS DUTT.—By Mr.FBROUSON. from 21 solicitors of the city of Carlisle, praying to be re lieved from the payment of. SCOTCH UNITRISITT TESTS. —By the Marquis of STAFFORD, from the presbytteery of Tarnia, county of Rees-Mire ; Bir G. MONTGOMERY, from the presbytery of Kircaldy ; Col. BLAIR, trona the presbytery of Irvine (Scotland), and from the presbytery of Ayr ; against. CONSOLIDATID ANNUITIES ACT.—By Mr. GOOLD, from the guardians of the Limerick Union, against. COMBINATIONS OP WORKMEN BILL.—B 7 Lord D. STUART, from 238 cabinetmakers in the borough of Mary shone, in favour of. PARLIAII/LITLIIT PA PRIM —By Col. HARCOURT, front the Ryde Literary Institute, praying for supplies of. MALT AND Hor Dcrtas.—By Mr. PORTAL, from the Winchester Farmers' Club, also from Durley, Whitchureh, iutton, Scotney, Tutton, Eiot Stretton, Overton, Lower stoke, Huston, Aube, Mitch, Idever, and Farley Chamber lays., in Hampshire, for the repeal of. LAW or Sirrn.wits , ur.—By Mr. FOLEY, from . tbe board of guardians . of the Bromsgrove and Stourbndge poog-law anion, sputa. POOR ILATI4—By Sir J. BAILEY, from the board of guardians of Brecon, praying for a national poor rate. • , Nina Claws Sntrrino BILL.—From masters, mates, and seamen of the port of Seaham, against the 29th clause. THE MILITIA ACT.—By Hon. L. GOWER, signed by the inhabitants of Burton. on-Trent, for a reduction in tho armament of the country, and repeal of. .Isnin s —By Sir G. GOOISMAS, ham the Chamber of Commerce, Leeds, complaining of the limited extent of our commercial transactions with. TILE BOROUGH OF CANTERBURY. The SPEAKER reported that a message had bees re ceived from the Lords desiring a conference with respect to the address relative to corrupt practices at elections for Canterbury. Several members were then appointed to manage the con ference, who left the house, and on their return, Mr. K. SEYMER stated that the peers appointed to manage the conference on the part of the House of Lirds had informed them that their lordships had concurred in the address, with certain amendments, to which they de sired the concurrence of this house. On the motion of Mr. K. Seyur.e the Lords' amendments were agreed to. DUNGARVON ELECTION PETITION. - - - The SPI AKEH statcd that he hid received notice from the agent of the pitiionen in this case that the petition was withdrawn. NOTICES OF MOTION. TILE ADMIRALTY. Sir B. HALL said the house would recollect that that day week he placed a notice on the paper with reference to the affairs of the Board of Admiralty, and the late Secre tary of the Board of Admiralty expressed an earnest hope that he should be allowed to tie an early day for bringing the subject before the house. The motion stood for Tues day next, but before it stood mations by his hon. friend the member for Tavistock and his hon. friend the mem ber for the Tower Hand eta. He trusted that they would allow him to have precedence on that occasion. Mr. STAFFORD trusted the hon. members would listen to that appeal, and that the noble lord (J. Russell) would use his influence, because two of the members of the late hoard were also members of the present Board of Admiralty, and were therefore in some degree affected by the motion. . . — Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that he hoped his hon. friends would Klee way. Mr. It. J. PHILLIMORE said he should be sorry to in terpose any obstacle. He should be willing to act an ac cordance with the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets. Sir W. CLAY said he wished to pay respect to the house, but be was bound to say that this was a very unusual spplie cation. In ordinary circumstances applications were made to members to withdraw their notices, but this was an application for another:notice. If men;bers who had mo tions wore to. be appealed to by other members who thought they had other motions of greater importance, he did not see the reason for a ballot. If the noble lord would give him some other day, so that he might be surd of bringing for ward his motion, ho would give way. Later in the evening the hon. baronet and Mr. Philli• more announced their willingness to give way to Sir B. Hall. HACKNEY CARRIAGES IN LONDON. Mr. ii•FiTtbigavonOiiCetitit on Thursday next he should move for leave to bring in a bill for the better regu lation of hackney carriages within the metropolis. CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS. Sir DE L. EVANS gave notice on behalf of Sir J. V. Shelley, of his intention on the 3rd of May, to submit cer tain resolutions concerning corrupt practices at elections. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES BILL. Mr. Serjeant SHEE gave notice that on the 3rd of May he would move fee leave to bring in a bill to explain the act 14 and 15 Victoria, cap 60, commonly called the Ecclesias tical Titles Assumption Bill, and to declare lawful the as sumption of their spiritual office and functions by the arch bishops and bishops of the church of Rome in Great Britain and Ireland. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS. Mr. COLLIER gave notice that on that slay fortnight he should move for leave to bring in a bill to transfer tte testa mentary jurisdiction of the ecclesiastical courts to the superior courts of common law and to county courts. THE EAST INDIA COMPANY. Mr. RICH gave notice that on the 3rd of May he should move for papers relative to the government of India. BRITISH WINES. Mr,OLIVEIRA mqsed for a return of the names and residences of ell makers or manufacturers of British or home-made wines throughout Great Britain and Ireland; specifying the quantities of such wines made by each manufacturer in each year from 1845 to 1852, both years inclusive; the name and quality of each description of wine so made, the names under which they are sold, the prices at which they are sold per imperial gallon, and if any and what quantity of each of such wines is exported. ESTATES COURT. Mr. V. SCULLY moved for returns from the Court for the Sale of Ineumbered Estates in Ireland up to the lit day of April, 1853, of number of petitions lodged for the sale of estates: number of petitions Hated by the commissioners; number of petitions dismissed; total produce of sales in each county ; number of conveyances executed k total amount paid out, distinguishing amount allowed to imam brancers, who became purchasers ; of number of owners whose estates, or parts of same, have been sold, joint owners or several owners in the same matter being consi dered as one owner; of number of purchasers, at and under 2,0001.; from 2,0001. to 5,0001. ; from 5,0001. to 20,0001. ; above 20,0001. ; and of number of officers on the staff of the commission, with their respective departments and salaries. FLOGGING OF SOLDIERS. On the motion of Mr. COBDEN, on the part of MT. HUME, returns were ordered of the number of rrsons flogged in the army of Great Britain and Ireland, in each of the years 1847 to 1832 inclusive, specifying the offence, the regiment, the place of station, the time, the sentence, and the number of lashes inflicted (in continuation of Par liamentary Paper No. 81, of Session 1847). EXPULSION OF MR. CRAUFURD FROM TUSCANY. Lord D. STUART rose to put the question, of which he had given notice, te the noble lord the member for the City of London relating to the expulsion of Mr. Craufard from Tuscany. Mr. Craufurd was en English gentleman of the highest respectability, and brother to an boo. member of that house, and he held an Aloe connected with her Ma jesty's Treasury at Corfu. He had occasion to return to this country on Rome business, and passing through Italy he stopped at Florence, and understanding that there was to be a steamer at Leghorn ea the 23rd he was obliged to remain at Florence for a few days. On returning -to his hotel at 12 o'clock at night on the 23rd of the month he was, to his great surprise, accosted by two police o ffi cers, who informed him that the orders of the go vernment were that In should leave the Tuscon dominions within 24 hours. Mr. Crawford, the next morning, applied to Mr. &mien, the chargé d'affeires, who represented his ease to the Tuscan government, but his interposition was of no avail, and Mr. Cranford was further informed that if he did not leave the Tuscan dominions within the time pre scribed, or at least by the sailing of the first boat, force would be resorted to. Mr. Crawford had been visiting per sons of the highest respectability in Florence, amongst others the attorney-general of Tuscany and other persons, who it was to be presumed enjoyed the confidence and re spect of that government. Under these circumstances he wished to ask the noble lord whether the attention of her Msjesty's government had been drawn to this case, and whether any remarks had been made to the government of Tuscany on the subject ; and also irony correspondence had passed, whether he would feel any objection to lay that cor respondence on the table of the house? Lord J. RUSSELL said it was quite tree that Mr. Cran ford was expelled by the TIM= government from the Tuscan dominions. It appeared there was a suspicion of his being engaged in some revolutionary attempt, which was utterly unfounded, and his noble friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs made a remonstrance on the subject, and stated that Mr. Crawford had only passed through Florence on his way to England. On this statement the Tuscan Minister fur Foreign Affairs expressed his regret at the occurrence, admitted that the suspicions were unfounded, and stated that Mr. Craufurd would he at liberty at any time on his return to Corfu, to pass through Florence. Lord D. STUART—About the correspondence ? Lord J. RUSSELL said there was soma difficulty on that subject ; there was inconvenience in giving correspondence in these eases, as it tended very often to prevent amicable settlements. THE NATIONAL DEBT RESOLUTIONS. Mr. HEADLAM asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, on the creation of the proposed new Three-and a-Half per Cent., and Two-and-a-Half per Cent. stocks the same contract with reference to the income tax will be entered into concerning such new stocks, as was made in 1801 with reference to the existing Three per Cent. stocks. He said that there was a contract with the existing holders of the Three per Coat. which precluded the house from tax ing them, and he wished to know whether, in creating the new Two-and-a-Half per Cent., the same condition was to attach. The of the EXCHEQUER had con siderable difficulty in understanding the question as it ap peared in the votes, but he now understood whether the general terms of immunity from taxes and charges would be introduced in the resolution ? (Hear.) That was a qua tion of difficulty to which he had as yet seen no °cession to give his special consideration,—of course it would be consi dered before the bill wu laid before the house. At meant Ming sow re toossa to very the terms, and be should say to ea posirtoololooll. VIM the beet course would be to:adhere ID lie term of*, Mow sots. EDUCATION. Mr. ADDERLEY asked Lord John Ransil, whether he intends to introduce any measure, or will extend hie gene ral educational measure, so as to include any provision, either by grants through the committee of council, or by ratesAor any other means, for pauper or reformatory schools for the classes of children most dependent on assis tance, and whose better education is moat needed for the safety of the state. Lord J. RUSSELL —With regard to the subject of pau per schools, it bad been under consideration, and would be still further considered. With regard to criminal children that was a totally different subject, and would not cone within the scope of the measure he bad introduced. RAMSGATE HARBOUR. Mr. MASTERMAN moved for cows of Mr. Walker's letter to the Admiralty, dated the 18th day of March, 1&53, in reference to Capt. Vetch's report of the 6th day of De • eember, 18.33, on Ram , riree harbour; and, of Sir J.dm Rennie's report to the Provident of the [hard of Trade, dated the 4th day of April, 1853, in reference to Capt. Vetch's report of the 6th day of December, 1852. on Raw gate harbour. Agreed to. EMIGRANTS FROM THE EAST INDIES, 80. 'Ks. A. PELLATT moved for an address foe returns of the number of emigrants imported from the East Indies, China, Madeira, and Africa, into Jamaica and British Guiana sines 1838 ; and also of the number who have been sent back to the East Indies. Agreed to. UNENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND). Mr. 11. HERBERT, while admitting the great benefit of the Encumbered Estate' Court, saiu visit it had had the effect of rendering all other estates almost unsaleable. He begged, therefore, to ask the right hon. gentleman whether he contemplated the introduction of any measure to give to the proprietors of land in Ireland the same pri vileges without compelling them to go through the ordeal of that court ? Sir J. YOUNG had no doubt that the desire of the hon. gentleman to extend the same advantages to unencumbered estates was shared by most of the proprietors in Ireland. The matter was under the consideration of the government, but he was afraid he could not promise to introduce any measure for that purpose this session. He begged, however, to give notice of his intention to move for leave to intro duce a bill to conri!yethecourt for 'anther year. (Hear.) THE BOROUGH OF CLITIIEROE. Mr. GASKELL, in moving for an address to appoint a commission to inquire into the state of the borough of Cli theroe, said that under ordinary circumstances he should be averse from a step which would probably affect the con stitutional privileges of any borough ; but there were cases in which corruption so gram and notorious existed, that an election committee would be shrinking from its duty unless it asked the house for i further inquiry ; and in which the house would be shrinking from its duty unless it granted that inquiry. (Hear, bear.) The ease of the borough of Clitheroe resembled in many points those other cases which had already been brought under their consider alien; but it differed from them in the unblushing manner in which the malpractices were carried on. and the total absence of all attempt to gloss them over. It had been stated that one person had been offered 401., another 50/., and a third 1001. In another ease a bribe of 30/. bad been offered and accepted, as had been proved to the satisfaction of the committee. Gross intimidation had been proved ; and voters had been removed under • safe escort to a place twenty miles dist tnt. (Laughter.) In short every undue appliance had been resorted to—the treating' had been gross and systematic; and the intimidation was proved Co have been very extensive. The borough con tained 41‘0 or 500 electors; and large bodies of armed men had tnen introduced into it for the purpose of overawing the voters. Surely it that practice were to be tolerated it was impossible to conceive anything more calculated to bring discredit and odium upon our representative system. (blear, hear.) In conclusion, ho begged to add that the motion he had the honour to propose had met with the unanimous concurrence of the committee over which he had presided. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman then moved the address, in sallies Mr. Percival Andrea Pickering, Mr. George Go odin Barrett, and Mr. Gathorne Hardy were sensed as commissioners. Mr. COBDEN presented two petitions—the one signed by 160 of the elect , rs of Clitheroe, and the other also nu ' onerously signed by electors and non-electors, complaining of the gross intimidation which had prevailed in that borough. The petition mentioned the names of many per sons, chiefly proprietors, who were involved in charges of that nature. He would not go into these matters, further Ihra to say, that he bad in his hand • notice to quit on the 30ib of July, riven to a tenant who had been solicited to vote on the 7th of that month, but who had voted for the other candidate. The person in this case had been • tenant for 30 years. Ile (Mr. Cobden) was told that many other cases could be proved, but doubts had arisen whether the commissioners could receive evidence of intimidation, under the act. It was possible that the commissioners might take • large and comprehensive view of the wording of the statute, but it was, nevertheless, a cave of great daubt. Now be (Mr. Cobden) would ask the house whether there was any dif ference between bribing a man and intimidating him by threats of pecuniary loss? The introduction of the blud geon men complained of in the election petition was clearly illegal ; but was not the case equally flagitious where a pro prietor held up a threat of ejection over his tenant, a creditor who held up his security over his unfortunate debtor, or a customer who held u the loss of his custom over his tradesmen ? (Hear, hear.) He should certainly advise evidence of intimidation and tre sting to be tendered to the commissioners in order to as certain what was really the law ; and if it should turn out that such practices did not come within the meaning of the act, he trusted the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) would bring in a measure to amend the existing law. (Hear, hear.) Mr. WALPOLE agreed with the hon. gentleman that the law ought to be altered with reference to treating and intimidation ; but he quite concurred with hien in thinking that the malpractices referred to in tho act related only to bribery. He thought that the session aught not to pass by without a bill being brought in to consolidate and amend all the statutes relating to bribery; and he had himself made great progress with such a measure. (Cheer.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL entirely Concurred with the view of the act which had been expressed by the right hon. gentleman; but he begged to remind the tight bon. gentleman that when the noble lord introduced the bill it included treating and intimidation, but that those mal practices had been struck out of it in another place. He was glad to hear that the right hon. gentleman was engaged upon a measure upon the subject, and he trusted it would contain a provision that where extensive treating and inti midation were shown to prevail, power would be given to address the crown for a commission. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT thought that if the comet--' allowed those liberal powers of construction which were granted to all judges they would have power to deal with this Aoki. Mr. S. WORTLEY would not dispute the opinion which had been given by such high authorities, but at the same time he could not altogether assent to it ; for it was certain that treating might amount in some cases to absolute bribery. On the whole, he should be disposed not to issue the commission; but rather to wait until the law had been amended. (Hear, hear.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL hoped it was not sup posed that he considered treating would not amount to bri bery, for he believed that there were cases in which it was as clear bribery as the giving of money ; but he Aid not understand that the committee had reported any such treating to have been resorted to. !oSir F. KELLY agreed with the Attorney-General that this was not a case within the act of parliament. Mr. HUTT, as a member of the committee, hoped the house would not be induced, by any philological niceties, to defeat the ends of justice, and the great object of all their proceedings. Mr. HINDLEY contended that the house was bound by the reportof the committee. It would be moat unfair to suspend the writ on account of a single case of bribery. That house could not carry out the act by itself ; the House of Lords must be consulted ; and on that account they ought not to resort to a commission without good grounds. Mr. J. GLADSTONE referred to the evidence given before the committee, and veld it was their unanimous - wish that further inquiry should take place. At their meeting lists bad been given in of numerous cases of bribery and of open public houses. The house would stultify itself, unless inquiry took place in a case like this. (Cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL said he was of opinion that it would not be advisable to strain the law to meet any particular case. Had the bill of ibil oome back from the lords in the . same shape in which it went to them, this ease of Clitheroe would clearly have been included in it, sad there would have been an inquiry by commission into the ease before the house. But the lords expressly excluded the cue of treat ing from the bill ; and that being so, it was impossible for them to act as if thou words were included. He had ad vised the house to concur with the amendments of the lords ; and if any gross case of treating occurred, it was still opdn to the house to proceed as in the cases of Sudbury and St. Albans, to carry through a bill, and send it up to the other house. Of course, in this case or any other, it was open to any member who chose to do so. Mr. Bright said he had warned him of the effect of leaving out these words. He (Lord J. Russell) was not answerable for that amendment ; but the question was whether he should allow the bill to be dropped, and have none at all. {Hear, hear.) He thought it far preferable to obtain such an act as they had. The cases of Canterbury and some others had shown that they were able to institute investigation into cases of bribery, which they should other wise have been obliged to pass by. (Hear, hear.) He still thought, however, after the experience they had had, that it was tolerably evident that the house ought to have the power of proceeding by address, in cases of treating ; and he should be very glad if such an amendment was introduced. Mr. DISRAELI quite agreed with the noble lord as to the inexpediency of straining the law, and also, after what had taken place in the other house, that it would not be wise in them to sanction any commission of inquiry into treating, however excessive. (Hear, hear.) Certainly, after the evidence they had had as to treating at Clitheroe, he did not think that would be a basis for a com mission. But the evidence and report of the Clitheroe committee was not by any means confined to the matter of treating. There was considerable evidence, proving that corrupt practices, including direct bribery and offers of bribes, had prevailed there for a long time. (Hear, hear.) It was true the report oaly alleged one ease ; but the cause of this had been already pointed out. It was no doubt pow tectly open to the house to appoint a committe of inquiry into the subject of treating. But before deciding that question, they ought to ask if the evidence before the Clitheroe committee did not show that corrupt practices and direct bribery had extensively prevailed. (Beer, bear.) He apprehended that the number given in evidence before the committee was by no means considerable. Mr. HINDLEY—One. Mr. DISRAELI—At all events, there was evidence that bribes had been offered to four or five individuals; and one man stood out because they would not give him 150/. (Hear, hear.) It was a difficult case to decide upon; but if asked to decide, he must do so in favour of issuing a com mission. (Hear, hoar.) The house then divided. For the motion Against it _ CARRIAGE DUTIES. . . Sir DE L. EVANS, in moving for leave to bring in a bill to alter the scale of duties on carriages, said that he did so in the interest of the large body of artisans em ployed in the carriage trade. The present duties were arranged under twenty-sin different classes, varying from 11.5 e. per carriage to 91. Is. He proposed to reduce the twenty-six classes to three, as follows :—For four wheeled carriages, drawn by two horses, 31. per year ; ditto, drawn by one horse, 21. ; for two wheelers, 11. He did not think this would involve ony diminution of duty. ll estimated the sum to be rer,ivcil by the swlo he proposed at 127,0001. The citemptions in 1852, under the present system were 7,881. Letters h►d been addressed to persons of respect ability in various towns and counties, inquiring the propor tion between taxed and untaxed carriages. This varied exceedingly; but the average of the whole was 47 taxed to 502 untaxed, of above ten to one of the latter. Taking the proportion at four-fold, instead of ten-fold, the amount to be received under the second head, at 21. per carriage, would be 66,0001. From two.whoeled car riages he. estimated a receipt of 22,5001. In 1812 the number exempt of that class was 44,091 The exemption was the only item in these duties that was annually on the increase; this year it was 52,000. The whole tax for this year was 407,0001. on the plan proposed, 427,0001. would be received, if his calculations at all approached correctness. There was no reason to apprehend that it would be any lees ; he believed there would be a considerable gain to the exchequer, fir no doubt a considerable impetus would be given to the trade, and a number of carriages of these classes would he immediately brought into use. No tax was more objectionable than this. He proposed to lighten it on those now paying the tax, and bring in some classes that had not hitherto paid. For the last three years there had been a regular decrease in the receipts from this tax. Mr. TURNER, in seconding the motion, said that the house would perceive the evil of the carriage tax, from the fact that the builders of untaxed carriages were flee to one as compared with the builders of taxed vehicles. Mr. BRIGHT said that one reason why the Chancellor of the Exchequer should be disposed to deal with this tax was, that it might be improved without any diminution of the revenue, which, under the present system, was slowly but steadily decreasing. The coach-builders, unfortunately. were a race who, except in Long acre, did not congregate much together; they were consequently without much political influence, and the consequence was that no Chancellor of the Exchequer paid them much atten tion. (Laughter.) They had been for :years subject to a species of Exchequer "garotte" which strangled an industry as valuable for the amount it produced as any other in the country. (Hear, bear.) People were in the habit of considering carriages a luxury, and that they would be kept up to the same extent whatever the tax imposed upon them. But that was a great mistake. Many persons, especially in the country, kept up carriages mere for use than ostentation. 'rho evils of the tax were shown by the effect produced in London, where 50 firms had in the course of ten years become bankrupt, or gave up business; and in the country, where in 50 towns the trade of carriage building had become unknown, though formerly a brisk trade had been carried on. But what he should recent• mend to the right hon. gentleman when he was going to make a change in this tax, would be to impose a small tax on each wheel, without descending to wheelbarrows or carts used for trade, disregarding altogether this number of horses and the size of the wheel. (Hear, hear.) He thought that this would produce an increasing revenue. Sup pose that a man paid 11. for one carriage, he would have him pay 101. if he kept 10 carriages. This was a simple mode of levying the tax, sad he believed it would preface a steadily increasing amount. (Hear.) lie hoped that his hon. friend was not going to divide, as he supposed that his object would be gained by the discus sion which he provoked. (Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was glad to hear the concluding observation of the hon. gentleman. With regard to the decrease in the number of carriages, and also in the amount of revenue, he thought it was to a great degree owing to a cause which had not been noticed by any of the speakers who preceded him—namely, the increase in the number of railways. (Hear, hear.) He did not however mean to say that this was the sole, though he believed it to be the main, cause of the diminution. Without at all pledging the government to as, course whatever, he admitted that the case of this trade was a hard one. Ho had heard that case repre sented by those interested in the trade, and ho endea voured to make himself acquainted with the facts. He admitted that the rate of ditty was extremely high, that it was in its nature complex, and that the provisions of the act were of an invidious descrip tion. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and gallant member com plained of the liberty of compounding for the tax, but he apprehended this was a relief given in consequence of the progressive augmentation of the duty ix proportion to the number of carriages kept. (Hear, hear.) The multitude and extensive range of the exemptions were a more oppres sive part of the present system. (Hear, hear.) These, ex emptions lay at the root of the whole matter, and if the house felt disposed at any time to dea l with these duties and to give relief to the trade, they must be prepared either to sacrifice a large amount of the present duty, probably 200,0001. a year—which was a large sum in proportion to the amount levied, or they must pluck up courage and cut to the root of the evil—the exemptions. (Hear, hear.) His explanations tin this subject were ' looming" In a very short future. (Laughter.) On Monday next he would state the course the government meant to pursue with regard to these duties, and he hoped the hon. and gallant gentleman would be satisfied with this. (Hear.) Mr. FRENCH said that the hon. member for Man chester's statement with regard to Ireland was not snore accurate than his statements generally with respect to that country. The motion was then withdrawn. PUBLIC REVENUE._ Mr. W. WILLIAMS said the question he was about to move was one which deeply affected the management and collection of the public revenue, and his object was to obtain an assurance from the house that they would not permit a large portion of the public taxes to be expended by any persons whatsoever without its concurrence and autho rity. (Hear.) He considered this duty was one of the most important and peculiar functions of the House of Commons. But he regretted to sly that this duty had been ter a long period most culpably neglected, by allowing a large portion of the public revenue to be intercepted in its way from the pockets of the people to the public exchequer. It appeared from a return which he moved for, and which was presented to the house in the cuurse of the present session, that 6,000,0001. had been intercepted in this way. Of this sum 3,936,0001. had been impounded by the officers of the departments—the customs, excise, stamps, poet- office, +lc. A very large portion of this sum, namely, 660,0001. a year, had been detained for the purpose of re payments, drawbacks, and " other payments." Now, what were these "other payments 1" en the Customs, for qua rantine, warehouses, and judicial es•ablishments in Scot land (such was the description), 313,0001. was eaten up. Ice the Excise the payments other than the coot of collection asasistod of pensions granted in the reign of King Charles IL awl William 111., salaries to the inspectors of the mown, payments towards the civil government of Scotland, Ort the encouragement of British fishing, for the salaries of process. servers, and allowances to the officers of the late tax department in Ireland, &c. In this way 84,6791. was eaten up. Then there was a sum of 103,0001. kept back by the Woods and Forests department. He untended that the whole of this amount of 560,0001. aught to be paid into the public treasury, and that votes asisla to be taken in the estimates for the various revenue isplasents as for the army, navy, and ordnance. (Hear, hear.) Ha had heard it said that there were difficulties in the way of effecting this ; but he would undertake to re move them in a little time, and he was sure the Chan cellor of the Exchequer could very easily surmount them. The halm would be astonished to find what had been the result of the expenditure of such an enormous sum of mo ney without control. In the year 1806, a period of war and extravagance, a committee was appointed by a whig government to inquire into the cost of collecting the reve nue, and, as the result of the inquiry, it appeared that the coat of collecting 58,000,0001. was 2,797,0001., or 41 per cent. The expense of collecting the revenue of l&51, which was 56,000,0001., was 3,936,0001., being 1,140,0001. in execs of the cost of collecting 2,000,0001. less revenue in 1806. Moreover, in 1506, the Post-office packet service was maintained and paid by the Post-office department, which was not the case at present; and if this item of expense were added to the. 1,140,0001., there would be a sum of 2,000,000 1 . more for collecting the ue in 1851, than was paid in 1806. It mast also be taken into account that the price of wheat in 1806 was 765. per quarter. In 1803 wheat was at 86s. per quarter, or pretty nearly double its cut at the present time; in fact, the price of every article which entered into the consumption of those who were employed in collecting the revenue was now little more than one-third of what it was then. He entertained great hopes that an entire change of system with regard to government departments was at hand. The right hon. gentleman, the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, observed in his speech on introducing his budget, that one part of the duty of the then government would be to pay the whole of this 6,000,0001. into the El- chequer. Again, they had had a lecture from the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, as recently as Friday last, on the duties of that house, and of individual members of it, with regard to the same matter. In introducing his finings' measure the right hon. gentleman said :. " No man can admit more fully than I do the perfect right of parliament, and of every member of parliament, nay, the bounden duty and obligation of parliament to maintain intact its control over the whole operation of taxation."— Thus had the right hon. gentleman, in language most eloquent, most decisive, and most constitutional, described the position and duty of that house with regard to the revision of taxes. He felt sure, therefore, that the I right honourable gentleman would use similar language that evening; and declare that it was the duty of that house, after imposing taxes on the people, to see that no portion of them was expended independently of its own authority and control. (Hear, bear.) After quoting such a declaration of opinion from the right hon. gentleman, it would be presumptuous in him to detain the house any longer, and he would therefore conclude at once with tke motion, namely, " That it appears, by a return ordered by this house in the present session, that an enor mous amount of the public money is annually intercepted on its way from the people's pockets to the Treasury. and expended without the sanction and control of this house, and in violation of the constitutional principle, that no two shall be imposed upon the people, or the product thereof expended, without the authority of their representatives ia parliament; that the said return shows, that ' the amount intercepted and expended in the year 1851, which never reached the Exchequer, was 6,072,1511. 94. 9d., of white l i amount 5,622,257/. was deducted from the gross receipts of the taxes by the various revenue departments, and expended by the said departments for the paynient of their officers,andother purposes, without the supervision and control of parlia ment ; that for the security of the public monies, and accu rate keeping of the public accounts, it is indispensable that the whole of the public income should, without any deduc tion whatever, be paid into her Majesty's Exchequer, and that no portion of it should be issued therefrom, on any plea cr pretence, without the sanction of parliament, as it was recommended by the commission, which consisted of members of this house, appointed by the crown in the year 1831." (Cheers.) Captain SCOUELL seconded the motion. lie was glad of the reference ti the rght hon. gentleman the late Chan cellor of the Exchequer, who appeared to him entitled to such an acknowledgment for the course which he had taken on this question. (Hear, hear.) On the occasion referred to, the right honourable gentleman remarked that by administrative reform he thought something ,like 1,000,0001. might be saved; and he (Capt. Scobell) believed that a large proportion of this saving would he effected in the department under consideration. As regarded this ex penditure generally, it was enough to pay that it was an expenditure out of sight. It was not an English way of spending money. (Hear, hear.) In private life no man left everything to his steward ; and as guardians of the public purse they were bound to be as careful as they were in the management of their private effeirs. Reference Lot been made to Dr. Bowing. Before he had a Beat iu that hoses he had sometimes asked himself whether it were possible that a motion like Dr. Bewriatee could he re jected. The subject having been found troublesome to the government, the learned doctor was made consul; and per haps if the hon. member for Lambeth continued to pursue the same course, he too would be made a consul. (Lau g h. , ter.) There was another hon. gentleman in the lonian is lands., where, for the reason he had just mentioned, he was entrusted with a little kingdom of his own. Ile regretted to see so few members present to take part in a discussi relating to such a large expenditure of public money. Notwithstanding the importance of the question, there were scarcely 40 members to listen to the defile*. (Hem) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Plitt, the duty be had to discharge on the present occasion, both ILI regarded himself and as regarded the government, was an extremely simple one. As reg arded himself, many years ago he expressed an opinion that the sharges connected with the collection of the revenue, ought to be brought under the' control of parliament. As respected the government Units he had been in offiu he hid thought it right to in. quire into the practicability of effecting a great change in this matter, because he wen aware that an abstract opinion as to the necessity of a change was of little avail, and it had been the subject of consideration with him and his col leagues. They were of opinion that effect ought to he given to this principle, and they should not desist from their endeavours until they had arranged the measures which would be necessary for carrying it into effect. (I leer.) He must at the same time state, as the hon. gentleman w a s p re . trebly aware, that it was a considerable operation, and that a great deal was to be done before a practical, clear, and simple system of this magnitude could be established. Th e hon. gentleman, he had no doubt, kuew very well that in the first place there was a large class of charges which were included in the gro's sums he had included in this reseln tion which it would be quite impossible to bring under the control of parliament, for the simple reason Olt they did not in any sonic constitute public income, such as drew. hackie and sums which were liable to be repaid, which constituted a portion of the sums which by the bon. gees e . man's resolutions they should bring into the public income, in order that they might be discharged. Then the hex geatleman knew perfectly well that there were may charges imposed on the public revenue by parliament, ace of these, not being a very extensive one, he would refer to, and which were what were called hereditary pensions. He did not think there would be any advantage whatever in making these hereditary pensioes the subject of an annual vote. The way to dial with them to nu mind would he to make an arrangement, which ut course must be a voluntary one, but to offer to the holders of those pensions a reasonable commutation, and to discharge the public income of there. (Hear, hear.) Then chute were public services. Ile would hardly say that it was the wisdom of parliament that imposed them, such as the Scotch judicial establishments, which were charged on the excise. These were arrangements of the strangest nature, which were indefensible, and ought to ho a:tered. Everything that properly belonged to the collection of the public income most unquestionably ought to be brought before the centrel of parliament, and they should never attain a right system till those terms were clearly fulfilled. He was not, however, so sanguine as the hon. gentleman who spoke last, with regard to the amount of saving to be effected by this. This explanation he trusted would be satisfactory to the honourable member, and he hoped that he would nut put the house to the neces sity of dividing. hlr. W. WILLIAMS did not agree with the right hon. gentleman as to the objection I:e hat made to the terms of the resolution. lie contended, and the right hon. gen tleman had laid down the principle emphatically in the quotation which he made from his Fp.t . cli, that every item of taxation ought to be under the autho rity of that house, aril equally was it established that they should look to the expenditure. The crown had no power to put its hand into the pockets of the people without the authority of tho other two branches of the legislature. The crown had tie power to appoint a whole hest of customs and excise officers without the authority of that house, and give them what salary it pleased. He knew for a fact that some of the ablest officers in these departments heel been induced to resign their situations in the prime of life to make room for others. However, he was sure that her Majesty was the last !person in the realm that would attempt to invade such a principle. The right hon. gentleman had met the question, he mast say, in a very Lair way. lie was uncommonly gratified that he had done so in the clear and of-baud manner in which he had just expressed himself. lie would rather leave it in his hands, with the high opinion he lead of his good intentions, and also of the integrity with which he would endeavour to carry out the principle. He should, therefore, not press the motion. The motion was then by leave withdrawn. KILMAINHAM HOSPITAL. Mr. BUTT thee moved that au humble address be pre sented to her Majesty, representing to her Majesty, that in the opinion of this house it is expedient and right to main tain tor the Irish soldier, in his age or infirmity, the asylum which the Royal Hospital of King Charles the Second, fur ancient and maimed soldiers at Kilmainham, rear Dublin, has long afforded to those for whose benefit it was originally instituted and endowed; that the abolition of this ancient Irish institution would be oppoecd to the feelings of the Irish nation, and injurious to the honour and interests of her Majesty's service ; and praying, that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to adopt such measures as may t her wisdom seem expedient for removing any obstructions which may now exist to the fulfilment of the objects fur which this institution is established, in consequence of any directions heretofore issued to the gover nors by her Majesty's Secretary at War, prohibiting the farther admission of maimed and worn-out soldiers. This institution, he said, was established in the reign of Charles 11. in 1681. Certain military commanders in Ire land were incorporated as the governors, who were to admit as many worn-out soldiers as they thought fit. The hos pital was erected by money, sixpence in the pound, stoppid from the pay of the army, and it was also endowed with Gi acres of land. It continued to he at, supported till 1791, when the stoppage was discontinued. The English parlia ment undertook to make a grant to support Chelsea, and the Irish parliament to make a grant to sup port Kilmainham. This state of things continues till 1851, when the then Secretary-at-War, Lord Panmure, then Mr. Fox Mauls, wrote a letter en the 10th of February, directing that no msre persons should be admitted inmates, and since that time the inmates had of course gradually de clined in numbers. lie thought it was not right that this institution should be abolished by the mere letter of the Secretary-at-War. Altogether he did not think that the institution really cost the country more than 5,000/. a year, and were they for that paltry saving to do an act injurious to the military service of the crown, and offen sive to the army ? (Hear.) They might find it but had economy after all to diminish the belief of the soldier in the honour and regard of his native country. (Hear, hear) The time might come when they might need hie strong arm and his brave heart once more, and it would not be wise to lemma the force of that appeal which the most illustrious hero of our times—himself an Irishman—addressed to his army on the field of battle, " Soldiers, what will they think at home if we are beaten ?" (Cheers .) Lord G. PAGET seconded the motion, and declared that there was a strong opinion entertained in the army against the abolition of the hospital. It was a great mistake to suppose that soldiers, after 25 years' service, had always families, and that an out.pension would suir them as well as admission into the hospital. Ile had known cases in his own regiment, where the appointment of men as in-pen sioners had given the liveliest satisfaction to the corps. The chief reason given in 1833 for abolishing the institu tion was the want that was telt for artillery barracks in Dublin ; but since then new and commodious barracks had been erected ; so that there did not now remain the shadow of an excuse for the proposal. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. FITZGERALD urged that such an establishment as Kilmainham operated as an encouragement to men to eater the service, for they felt that they had a home to which they could go at the end of their service, and he implored the house not to allow it to be put down. • Mr. VANCE said the hospital at Kilmainham operated as a stimulus to Irishmen to enter the army, and he en treated the house not to abolish it without some stronger reasons than had yet been given. ' • • Mr. SIDNEY - HERBERT uid that he had nothing to complain of in the speech of the right honourable and learned member for Youghal. But the real ques tion was, would the house reverse • policy which it had three times adopted, and which had been carried out by two governments. Ilis (Mr. Herbert's) pre decessor hail closed Kilmainham against any future admis sions. The arguments of the bon. and learned gentleman and his hon. and gallant friend (Lord J. Paget) referred rather to .6 plan proposed by a secretary-at-war tw. very years ago, and which had been abandoned, than to the plan now intended to be proposed. It was then proposed not to close Kilmainham against all future claimants, but to divest it at once from the purpose fur which it was instituted, and removing the existing pensioners, either to make them out pensioners, or to place them in Chelsea. No such proposal had since been made, and that was not the ques tion the house had now to decide, but whether, under circumstances which he should proceed to de scribe, they would think it wise to re-open Kilmainham. and put it on its former footing, and from which it had been gradually diminished for the last twenty years. The hon. member for Dublin had spoken strongly against the reduction of Kilmainham. Of course when an expenditure of 7,0001. a year was made, there very naturally arose what the hon. and learned member for Youghal called a "strong sen timent" on the subject. Now although the sum in ques tion would be withdrawn from Dublin, yet the out-pen sions would be spent all over Ireland. Sir }Lowy \ ivian had expressed an opinion that the dissolution of Kilmainhata would ruin the recruiting in Ireland, hut Lord Anglesey said that he could not go that length ; and there never was a time when, notwithstanding the drain on the popu lation and the high rate of wages, recruiting went on better in Ireland than nom. Ile be lieved that the dissolution of Kilmainham would have no such effect, but on the contrary, It would not beto n:aural to suppose that the dissemination of old soldiers over the country would be more likely to infiuneethe re cruiting in the agricultural districts, then having old soldiers o)red up in Kilmainham, where they could only be seen by the inhshitants of Dublin. He wished the Isin s tss to see why they should not disturb the arrangements winch had been made. Though he w: loo wi k oilitsgae to r l e oo al k at aan tbe . question of feeling, yet he must al