The Express. — London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

is the English mind a degree of incredulity with re spect to Irish distress, which would be removed by the observations which had fallen from many noble lords who had taken part in it. Without taking up mere time be trusted that the manures to be proposed by government would be of that large and comprehensive nature as to be capable of meeting the gre►t difficulties which they had to contend with. The Marquis of WESTMEATII hoped that the govern ment would come forward with practical remedial measures, and that the Irish people would not be put off with mere vague experiments. The Earl of RODEN rejoiced at the discussion which had taken place, because it showed the sympathy entertained by the hots.) for the suffering Irish nation. The Earl of HARDWICKE urged that what was wanted for Ireland was the means of conveyance of food, and he wished to know from the noble lord at the head of the Ad miralty whether her Majesty's ships would be applied to that purpose. The Earl of AUCKLAND said, that from information re ceived by the government, they were of opinion that shipping by the private trade would be sufficient for the transit of food. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that he should make a statement on Monday of the intentions of the go vernment with regard to the measures they should intro duce, as he thought it would be satisfactory to their lord ships to be made acquainted with them, althongh they would originate in the other house, and he should not re quire any decision upon them then, or at any other time. The address wan then agreed to, and their lordships ad journed at half-past ten. Marquis of Lansdowne) most heartily and hopefully eland. He knew that when difficulties were to he arse tuntcred, and masses of persons to be affected in their interests or preju dices, as would be the case in the measures which govern ment mania propose to their lordships, the greatest calmness, the warmest co-operation on the part of their lordships would be necessary, and let not their lordships be deterred from such co-operation be any idea that government meant to deal recklessly with that which must be the foundation of all social improvement—he meant the rights of property. (Cheers.) Far from thinking that by interference with the rights of property any salutary improvement could be .elected, he should say that it must tenfold increase the misery and embarrassment of the people, if they took away those inducements to improve which the rights of property alone afforded. (Hear, hear.) Let the measures of the go vernment, when introduced, be tried by this test, and if any one of them should be found to interfere with the rights of property, he prayed their lordships to reject such measures. But if they should be found to give to the Irish proprietor' better means than they had at present for maintaining their tenants, without disturbing the proper relation of landlord and tenant, he trusted that the government measures would meet with their lordships approbation and support. ( bear, hear.) It might be as well to state at once that ho meant, on Monday next, to move for some papers which would ens- Me him to state more fully the grounds on which government justifbal their past conduct, and rested those me mores on which they founded their hopes of future amelioration in Ireland. It was their intention to provide for the present emergency by temporary measures, and to prop-ric others of slower development fur the improvement of all classes in that part of the United Kingdom. Lord BROUGHAM said that during a parliamentary ex perience of thirty-seven years' duration, he could not recol lect an instance in which the legislature had come together under circumstances of more grave embarrassment than at present. It was only necessary to name Ireland, and no more, to bid all party altercation ream and every voice of party to be still. (Hear.) He did not blame government for not having previously called parliament together, although he was not quite certain that such a course might not have been desirable. It had been objected that the Irish propri etors would have been forced to come over. God forbid he should be instrumental in bringing the Irish proprietors over to this country—(loud laughter) - but if it was important to have them on their est stes in November, it was also import ant in January, so that the objection applied to one time as to the other. He was rather confirmed in his opinion by what tic had heard that evening. It appeared that the act of last session was a failure, and that Lord Beaborough had been obliged to deviate from it. It appeared, also, that Mr. Labouchere's letter had proved a failure, aud that Mr. Trevel yan's had been anything but satisfactory, and lastly he found that the million voted last year for drainage was totally ino perative. Another reason he had far thinking that an earlier meeting of parliament would have been Netter, was that he wished the ports had been opened. (Hear, hear.) As yet the people bad enjoyed little benefit from the repeal of the corn-laws. With the price at 70s. the duty under the old law would have been only one shilling the quarter, while at present it was four shillings, and would continue so until the import price tumbled to 50s. (Hear, hear.) He was therefore anxious for an early suspension of the present law, if not its entire abrogation. (Hear, hear.) Lastly, he came to the g reat question of the day, our foreign affairs, which interested that house much, the other house a little, and the country not at all. He be lieved that although Englishmen were loyally anxious about the alliances of their own sovereigns, they cared as little for the intermarriages of foreign royal houses, as they would for any marriage contracted in Mons. Le Verrier's new planet, if there, men were married and women given in marriage. (Laughter.) He should mention one instance of their in difference, and that, too, in a case of great importance. When Louis XIV. placed his grandson Philip V. on the throne of Spain, the English monarch, William 111., at once took objection to the arrangement. and involved this country in a dispute, which was inherited by his suc cessor, and which led to the most illustrious campaigns ever fought by this country until those of the illustrious duke near him (Lord Brougham), which surpassed them. (Cheers.) But all the victories of Marloorough, all the counsels of Godolphin, and the wisdom of Somers, could not make the people of this country bestow a thought on the question of the Spanish succession. Although the interests of this country were therein deeply, although remotely in volved, the war became unpopular, and to our eternal shame the great general was driven from the country which his victories had adorned. This showed what a hopeless task it would be for a minister of the present day to think of fixing the public mind on the correspondence respecting what was called the Montpensier marriage question. (A laugh.) He trusted that by all honourable means the good understanding between this country and France would be preserved, as also the cordial intelligence which had been happily esta blished between the illustrious monarch of that country and our own beloved sovereign. It was not that he attached any great national consequence to what was called the entente cordiale between any twasovereigns of constitutional states. The sabstantial interests of such states depended on other matters than what occurred or did not occur at royal conferences or royal visits' ; but still breaches of royal friend ships' were important, and much to he regretted. They formed as it were the prvious oil which relieved the friction of the machine, when the two nations having interests coming into contact all over the globe, were likely at any or every point to be exposed to friction and collision. He hoped, therefore, that any interruption of the most friendly relations would be short, as he kne w was the ardently cherished wish on the other side of tae water. He could state, from his own pi r ental experience, that an ardent wish existed there that the good understanding should be restored in form—he believed it had never been broken in substance—and he hoped and trusted that nothing would be done or said in the course of the debate in either house of parliament to prevent that happy consummation. (Hear, hear.) With reference to the question of Cracow, he wished to set his noble friend near him right. His noble friend, the president of the council, had not said that there was anything in the correspondence of the French government which formed an extenuation for what afterwards occurred elsewhere, what he said was that the annexation of Cracow would never have been attempted but for the knowlege of what was going on between England and France. He could not go the length of his noble friend the mover of the addraa, in calling that act a crime. He objected altogether to the language of vituperation when parties were not prepared toga farther. Governments should protest explicitly, but not indecently, and he trusted, there fore. that in our protests on the subject of Cracow there was not one word which Russia, Austria, or Prussia could fairly take offence at. He held a strong opinion that the conduct of them powers was not justified by the defence which they had set up. (Hear, hear.) Even if they proved misconduct on the part of Cracow they had no right to take the law in their own hands. He rejoiced, however, that so little had been said on the subject in the speech. Our ancient friendship and alliance with Austria was of the greatest importance to this country, and should not be lightly disturbed. (Hear, hear.) Prussia was not so important, nor bad been valuable at all until the time of Frederic If., called in this country the Protestant hero—Protestant in the same sense as l'aine, who protested against every religion. He wholly objected to the idea that an important measure should be brought up to their lordahips home, with refer ence to Ireland, in the immediate shape of a money bill, would have no c of amending, but HOUSE OF COMMONS—TUESDAY, JAN. 19. NEW WRITS.—The SPEAKER apprised the house that he had issued writs fur the election of a member for North Lincolnshire, in the room of Lord Worsley (called to the Douse of Peers) ; for Renfrewshire, in the room of Mr. P. M. Stewart (deceased) ; and for East Worcestershire, in the room of Mr. Banieby (deceased). NEW IEIIIIEIt.S.—Mr. Strum for Derby; Colonel Muir, for Renfrewshire ; Sir Montague Cholmeley, for North Lincolnshire; end Capt. Rushout, for East Worcester shire, were introduced, and respectively took the oaths. NOTICES OF MOTION.—CORN LA WS.—Mr. TUF NELL said he had to give notice, on the part of his nublo friend the First Lord of the Treasury, that on Thurs day next he would move resolutions, in committee of the 1 whole boons, on the corn laws. NAVIGATION LAWS.—Mr. TUFNELL gave notice that, on the same day, the noble lord would move, in com mittee of the whole house, resolutions ou the navigation laws. LAW OF SETTLEMENT—Mr. TUFNELL gave no tice that on Friday next the noble lord would move for the appointment of a committee to inquire into the operation of the law of settlement. STATE OF IRELAND —Mr. TUFNELL gave notice that, on Monday next, the noble lord would bring the state of Ireland under the consideration of the house; but, on Friday next, his noble friend would be able to state more particularly in what way he intended to call the atten tion of the house to the subject. cusToms AND EXCISE DUTIES.—Mr. PARKER said he had to give notice, on the part of his right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that, on Friday, he would move that the house do resolve into a committee of the whole house on the customs and excise duties acts. SESSIONAL ORDERS.—Mr. PARKER gave notice that, to-morrow, he should move the sessional orders, and should also proceed to nominate the select committee on standing orders. CHELSEA PENSIONERS AND ARMY ENLIST MENT.—Mr. FsiX MAULE gave notice that, on Tuesday he should move for leave to bring in a bill to abolish the I duty on the pensions of Chelsea pensioners. Alas, that, on an early day, he should submit a bill having for its object to limit enlistment in the army. SHORT TIME IN FACTORIES.—Mr. J. FIELDEN gave notice of his intention to bring in a bill for reducing the time of labour in factories to ten hours a day. POOR-LAW COMMISSIONERS.—Mr. HUME gave notice that, on Friday next, he should put a question to the Find Lord of the Treasury as to what the intentions of the government were respecting the poor-law commissioners, in consequence of the proceedings which took place last session, and the resolutions which he had proposed to move, which were put off to give the government time to consider the mater. TREATY OF VIENNA.—Mr. HUME said that, on Thursday week, be should call the attention of the house to the violation of the treaty of Vienna, by the seizure of Cra cow, with the view of proposing to urge the suspension of the payment of 100,000 t, which this country had been pay in to the Emperor of Russia, ever since the treaty of Vienna was entered into, on condition of his fulfilling its obligations. (Hear, hear.) THE CHANNEL ISLANDS.—Dr. BOWRING gave notice that, to-morrow, he should inquire whether the com missioners respecting the Channel Islands had made their report ; and, if so, when it would be laid on the table of the house. IRISH POOR-LAWS.—Mr. P. SCROPE said that on Thursday fortnight (Feb. 4) he should move the following resolution That the lives of the people of Ireland ought to be as valuable, in point of law, so those of the people of England ; consequently, it is ex p edient to extend to Ireland the main principle of the English Poor-law, the right of the poor to relief, and the right of the destitute to be saved from perishing." CATHOLIC DISABILITIES. Mr. WATSON gave notice that he should more t 3 introduce a bill for the removal of the disabilities of Roman Catholics. UNIVERSITY TESTS.—Mr. CHRISTIE gave notice of his intention to submit a motion on the exclusion of Dis senters from the national universities. NEW WRIT.—A new writ was ordered, as we under stood. for West Sussex. PRISONERS IN THE SIKH WAR.—Mr. WAR BURTON asked if guy inquiry had been made by govern ment as to the rumour that had been spread respecting the murder of plisor!!rs taken in the Sutle) campaign. Mr. F.:M.AtkUL.B replied that it appeareit that m prisoner had been put . to death for springing a mine when they were entering a certain village but there was no foundation whatever for the report that the prisoners taken on that occasion had been wantonly murdered in cold blood. It was a foul calumny and aspersion on the British army. (Hear, hear.) He did not believe that any right minded man would ever have placed any confidence in it, and he was exceedingly obliged to his hon. friend for giving him the opportunity of stating before the country at large that it had ne foundation whatever. _ . which they see. : opportunity a, must wholly reject or wholly adopt. He would recommen. that the government plan should be first laid before both houses in the shape of resolutions, so that their lordships might assist in maturing a really eligible measure, which could then assume the form of a bill. The other house, he thought, would gladly avail itself of their lordships' advice in the perfecting a measure, unless, indeed, that house as sumed to be not merely .• collection of legislative wisdom, but the monopoly of legislative wisdom. It would be most unfair, indeed, to their lordship not to give them this op portunity, for under the existing fearful circumstances, if the measure came before them as a money bill, they could not, they dared not reject it, but must take it as it stood. They could not do otherwise in the awful state of Ireland, the horrors daily related of which surpassed anything in the page of Thucydides, on the canvas of Pousein, in the dismal chant of Dante. He would roost earnestly urge upon the government to draw a distinct line between temporary measures to meet what he would trustingly call a temporary end, ani permanent laws introducing organic, or radical, or enduring changes in the government of Ireland. There was much complaint made of Irish absenteeism. He must observe on this point, that he himself knew of no lands better cul tivated in Ireland than those belonging to absentees, which in almost even instance, indeed, were administered by able agents, who fulfilled in great measure the duties of the absent owner. Most of the great landowners of Ireland bad also large peraordons in England, so that they must be ab sentees from one or the other country. As to the proposition of supplying the wants of the Irish people in the shape of gifts out of the imperial treasury, he held that no course of proceeding could ba more fatal to Ireland herself, mere deeply injurious to the empire at large. (Hear.) Advance money by all means to Ireland out of the imperial treasury, but lot it be strictly in the way of loan, of which both prin cipal and interest are to be punctually repaid by the localities to whose use the advance shall be applied. He could not imagine more frightful extravagance, more monstrous job bing, more miserable and enduring improvidence, than would he at once originated by the advertisement that two or three millions were to be given away , to the Irish people. And once begin, you must go on giving until you have abso lutely no more to give, doing no good all the while; but infinite harm, and satisfy no one, for the demands would be found perfectly exhaueler. As to subscriptions for the distressed Irish, he aided them with his utmost power, but he must confess he doubted whether mush actual benefit would arise from them. Their chief value was, the indicating of a kindly testing towards Ireland. With reference to envernment depots of grain, there were J l very few instances indeed in which recourse to them was at all safe, and then only on a limited scale. The inevitable I effect, and obviously a most mischievous one, of government going into the market was at once to raise the mice of grain to the whole country. (Hear, hear.) It enuld not be forgotten, that in France there had been a'' deficiency in the crop, and the bank of that country had been obliged to obtain a loan from the Bank of England of three quarters of a million sterling. But all this arose from the unwholesome state of commerce, and the compul.ion which existed to purchase grain with bullion instead of he manufactured goods. With respect to the law reforms, ad verted to by the noble marquis apposite ( Lansdowne), he must say that nothing could be more excellent than that faci lities should be given to the easy, secure, sod cheap conveyance of lanes, hut be MAP not at all prepared to do away with all ent .1.. With these remarks he was prepared to receive and disease all the different measures to which attention had been called by his noble friend. Earl FITZWILLI AM said, he could not help feeling ex treme satisfaction with what had passed in that house during the present evening, and he trusted that the tone of the other house of parliament had corresponded with that which their ler Wen. had roe-r-t^'-at*enett`'ne• shs enee-rsoinn —(Hear, hear)—for he had observed that there existed THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JANUARY 20, 1847. better be reserved, but he could nut refrain from saying, that if it could be shewn that without a loss to the re venue, a large quantity of corn could be liberated f,r the food of the people, while one of their few luxuries might be reduced in coast, it must be almost needless to add, that such a measure, in bare justice to their coloni. e, isould not be withheld from them after they had withdrawn a prohi bition which was so beneficial to them. Mr. W. SMITH O'BRIEN mid that though it was cus tomary to receive with unanimity an address to her Majesty in such cases, he felt that he should be omitting a duty, if he remained silent on the present occasion and did not maim an appeal to the house with respect to the state of the people of Ireland, whose deplorable condition could not be exaggerated, or could not be fully described. He trusted that it was unnecessary for him to recapitulate the sad occurrences that had taken place within the last three months in Ireland. If gentlemen were not familiarised with these appalling circumstances, and if these horrors had not produced a natural effect on their minds nothing he coul.l add could move them. He was bound to add that from all be had learned from most recent amounts there was reason to apprehend, not only that these horrors still continued in all their frightful magnitude, but daily increased and would increase unless palliative measures be adopted for the pm , poee of kasenieg them. He did not accuse the government of a wilful intention to bring about a state of things so die estrous, but he was compelled to say that not only was it his conviction, but the conviction of millions in Ireland, that the Government not only did not adopt measums suitable in such a state of things, but allowed this appalling state of things to arise. He would recal to the recollection ' of the house the pledge given by the noble lord at the head of the government, at the close of the last session, that no interference on the part of the government with food sh mid he allowed. To that fatal pledge he attributed many of the disasters which had befallen that unhappy country. The present government should have followed the example of their predecessors, and made a pledge that, no tar as the exertions of the government were concerned, they would do the utmost to prevent any human being dying of starvation. He wished to ask, why should not the duty upon the imports lion of corn have been abrogated months ago, when the I horrible state of the Irish people became known? Then with respect to the employment of the people—and he re gretted that he was addressing an audience fivekixths of whom knew nothing about the subject—the resident gentry and the farmers, who bad received diminished rents and profits, from the failure of the potato crops, and who were consequently unable to give all the employment that was required, stepped nobly forward and did their best to alleviate the distress, yet the government refused to tax the ebsentee landlords. Such being the state of things, it was natural, surely, that government should provide some remedy of a temporary character. They passed at the end of last session a bill which was called the Labour Rate Act, under which power was given to the executive to undertake works recommended by the Quarter Sessions, In order to give employment to the people, and under this act they were employed in destroying the roads, and in consigning the land to perpetual barrenness —nothing was done fur its proper cultivation. Ile did not blame the government for passing this act, because they, no doubt, did so precipitately, and without knowing the full ex tent of the sufferings of the people: but he could find no apology for the neglect of the government in not calling par liament together teethe purposes to which he had referred. The right hon. gentleman, instead of doing that, took upon him self the functions of the legislature, without consulting the Irish members, the only legitimate organs through whom information should be obtained; declared what should be the law in Ireland; and established re gulations affecting every property in the country and its taxation in a most material manner, and that through a letter couched in language that was exceedingly difficult to understand. It appeared to him that the minister who set such a precedent was deserving of impeachment. He did not wish to offer any remondranee to the present government, for he looked upon their attainment to office with the greatest sa tisfaction, and had certainly greater sympathy with them than with any other met in the house. But he had at pre sent no faith in the plans which they had devised ; and he thought that they would not, by any means, be likely to satisfy his countrymen. Mr. P. SCROPE hoped he might be permitted to call the attention of the government to one point which had been omitted by the hon. member for Limerick (Mr. S. O'Brien), without its being supposed that he intended to cant any blame upon them. The impotent poor, the aged, the infirm, the sick, the widows, orphans, and children — the young women, in fact all women who had not a husband to provide for them—all these persons were not in any way provided for. And he wished to know how they were to be maintained. Mr. LABOUCHERE admitted that the picture which had been drawn of the present miserable condition of Ireland was not overcoloured, and vindicated, at great length, the present government from the heavy responsibilities which were sought to be east upon them, especially defending them against a charge of neglect in not having adopted the plan pursued by Sr Robert Peel's administration last year for sup. plying the Irish people with food. The right hon. baronet took a praiseworthy step in the introduction of Indian meal, which before had been unknown in Ireland. It had pro duced an excellent effect. It had accustomed the Irish to that article of food, and opened • trade in which private traders had never before been engaged. The right hon. baronet had conducted that operation with the greatest secresy, without which it would not have been successful. (Hear, hear.) But was that an experiment that could be repeated ? Did they think that traders would be twice caught in that way ? (Hear, hear.) The right hon. baronet himself had stated that he could never do it again. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman proceeded to criticise the means in which the government had given employment to the people. When the present government came into office, they found that a system had been adopted which apparently received the sanction of the house and the people of Ireland, namely, that of meeting the calamity by affording wages to the masses of unemployed people on public works. That system had been attended with some abuses, but, as a choice, the present government bad thought it best to pursue it, ins posing certain checks, and they had, therefore, obtained a bill at the close of the last session, for the purpose of pro viding fur the quantity of labour which might be thrown on the market. They, however, never recommended such a measure as one that would provide for the whole labouring population, end they hoped that it would have the effect of stimulating the landed pro- prietors to employ the population on usetui and productive works : in that anticipation, however, they had to a grew degree been disappointed. lie would not then inquire into the causes of 'hat disappointment, but he believed the magni tude of the calamity had had some effect in producing it. (Hear.) As to the question whether this was &calamity, the whole pressure of which should be borne by Ireland, or whether it should be considered as one in which the whole British empire should participate, he felt no difficulty an giving an answer to it. He would not anticipate the discus sion which must arise when the whole series of the govern ment measures would be brought forward in a few days, but he had no hesitation in saying, looking to the extent of the calamity, and the manner in which, though it affected England and parts of Scotland, it pecu.iurly affected Ire. land, considering that the evil was out of all proportion with the resources which it was in the means of the people to employ ; that the house would consider it as an imperial question, would treat it in that sense, and would be prepared by all just and legitimate means to grapple with it. He hoped that eh would do their duty. (Hear, hear.) Ireland had a perfect right that England and Seethed should assist her under her misfortune, taut on the other hand, the em pire had a right to call on the gentry and people of Ireland to do theirs (cheers) to show a disposition to leave nothing undone to grapple with the calamity. (Rear.) There was one very important part of the condition of Ireland to which he wished to refer before he sat down— he meant the increase of °Menem against property which had been adverted to in her Majesty's speech. It was not sur prising that, with a famine desolating the land, the bonds of society should be relaxed, and that outrage should take place; but at the same time it was right that the house should form no misconception of the nature of them. There was a great increase of crime, but on analysine it the increase was found to consist of attacks on property. The old egrarian outrages, which formed as large an item in the catalogue of Irish crime, had diminished And it was remarkable that the spirit of combination, which used to form so remarkable a feature in Ireland and led to so many agragrinn outrages, had altogether disappeared. There was no sympathy with the offender, there was me difficulty in obtaining a conviction and in e nforcing the law. (Hear). He believed that the law was now executed with as much facility in Ireland as in any other psrt of her Ma jety's dominions. It would be well for hon. gentlemen to bear these facts in mind when they come to consider the ! measures which would be proposed tar Ireland. The hon. member fur Limerick had raised them why they did not call Parliament together in November, he (Mr. ebere) would only my that he had been in constant mesons' communication with Irish representatives and lAA gentlemen, and when it was proposed to call parliament together, they one and all mill, " } or God's sake do not call parliament together." (Laughter.) Whatever Is to be done, do it on your own responsibility ; for if parlia ment be called together, it will be supposed that some new measure is about to be proposed ; and all our exertions will be paralysed. He felt convinced that Ireland had a Maim to demand, not as a boon, but as a right, the assistance of the whole British empire. 1 Hear, hear.) That assist ance would be given to her, he was sure, in no unfriendly spirit: and in no unfriendly spirit he would say to the repre seutativesof Ireland, that he hoped they would justify the exertions of parliament and of the government by showing their own determination to leave nothing untried or unmtempted to grapple themselves with the *eternity which has fallen on their country. (Hear, hear.) )(nth might be done by the British empire to assist Ireltuid —he would peace no limitation to the assistance which it would give Ireland in so great a calamity, except only that it thou d he given to an extent and degree that would be useful to Irelend herself. (Hear, hear.) tie was sure it would he better for Ireland if she were to rely on her awn menure..., end if her own children were to exert themselves mentully for themselveeknd tha. it would b. doing her a great injury if she were taught to rely upon eovernment. (Hear, hear ) He hoped the question would be discussed in a becomitig manner, and that Irish members would not think that they were treated in any unkind manner by English members; but on the other hand, he treated they would do everything in the-ir power to remedy the calamity which had befallen their country. lie was net without hope that out of evil good might carne, and that (while he sympathised with the suffering) it might afford an opportunity of pre venting the recurrence tal similar mi‘fortenes. (Hear.) Lord G. BENTINCK said he could assure the right hon. gent Leeman that it was not the intention of the party to which he belonged, nor wee it their desire, to make Ireland the battle-ground of party. (Hear, hear.) He VAR deeply sen sible teat her Majesty's government had been brought to the government of Ireland under circumstances of peculiar thew eity. they twit that they had ..4111, enure THE ADDRESS. The SPEAKER then read her Majesty's speech (for which see the Lords' report). The lion. C. HOWARD then rote to move the address. After claiming the indulgence of the house, he said he hoped none of his observations would be of en irritative nature, or such as would disturb unanimity. The house would doubtless join with her Majesty in the expression of regret at the dearth now prevailing in the north of Scotland and Ire land. The circumstances of the latter country were of so diffi cult and dangeruue a character that he should shrink from en tering on them,were not the house so familiar with the details. But a mere allusion would be sufficient to excite sympathy and call forth the warmest efforts for relief. (He ar, hear. ) He would not go into a detail of the measures by which government had attempted to remedy this distress ; it would be for them to say what measures they had taken to relieve the people and give them employment,—the facilities they had held out to proprietors, and what they had contri buted in aid of local subscriptions. Notwithstanding all these efforts, he could not disguise from himself the truth that the distress was not checked ; the country was still in a most fearful state. He doubted not that her Majesty's govern ment intended doing all in their power to afford still further relief, by taking off any duty which might impede the intro duction of corn into that country (hear, hear), and by ap plying sugar to the distilleries of this country, and thus ren dering available for food the grain which would otherwise be consumed there. Still he could not suppose that the per manent condition of Ireland would be affected by these palliatives; therefore, he wee glad that government intended to take the whole subject into consideration, and to endea vour, if possible, sot only to remedy the present mischiefs, but to cure the permanent evil. (Hear.) With reference to the destruction of the indep. ndenee of Cracow, he could not but express surprise that such a violation of the sanctity of treaties should have taken place. (Hear, hear.) Mr. RICARDO said he should not anticipate any opposition to the address, which he rose to second; for, were anything either of insertion or omission deemed desirable by any party, they would be slow in offering obstruction to government at a moment when so large a portion of their fellow-subjects were looking furwiuvl to their measures for relief in the midst of their extremity. One mode of relief was distinctly pointed out in her Majesty's speech,—the admission of foreign corn by removing the duty upon it, and by relaxing the navigation laws as far as regarded the importation of grain. (blear, hear.) So natural and necessary was the first of these measures, that it had been the subject of universal discus.ion ; and but two objec tions had been started against it. The first was an extraor dinary one,—that no larger a quantity of corn would he admitted under a free import than if the present duty were retained. But surely no objection could be made on this score ; for, at all events, if the measure did not let in any grain, it was impossible it could shut any out. (Hear.) The other objt ction was, that a compact had been a ntered into between parliament and the agricultural interest, which it would be unfair to disturb or derange. Even if any party were willing to take upon themselves, at a moment like this, the responsibility of adding a single farthing to the price of had to satisfy such a punctilio as this, he did not believe any party was to be found who would be willing to accept such generosity. In order to procure the great, et facilities, however, of admission and transmission, they should, in the first place, do away with the corn laws, and in the second place, they should relax the nay i,at ion laws, He was free to confess that when he considered that this was on island kingdom, with island colonies, whose shores were washed by every sea; that their fellow-subjects were thickly scattered through the four quarters of the globe; that their sailor; were working for the cause of humanity in the torrid gone ; that their maeufac. turers were the twst customers in all markets; that their in. duetry and ingenuity could not be surpassed; and that their capital and resources were etch as to enable them to construct a sufficiency of ships to save the people from starvation, it was folly to adhere to the miserable remnant of a law made in other times and under other circumstances. which failed when it was made, and was the main cause of separating them from a portion of America, which now earned the source of so much discontent. (Hear, hear.) There was another portion of her Majesty's speech which iss commended them to adopt measures which would cause the use of sugar in breweries and distilbriee, as a substitute foe core He did not wish to ahnse the inelnleentse of the Maim by making any remarks on so intricate a subject which may in putting them in possession of the reins of the kith government. At a late period of the session and so shortly before this calamity, that they had not NW play in dealing with the difficulties in which Ireland was placed, and for that reason they felt it to be duo to her Majesty's ministers to look with an indulgent eye, and deal with a lenient hand with their measures, even though they might not entirely concur in them. It was unnecessary for him to say that he deeply sympathised with Ireland, and he and them with whom he acted were prepared to give the best attention to the measures of her Majesty's government for remedying those disasters which had taken place in that country. But, at the acme time, they would be expected to deal frankly with the government, and while they were not disposed to say that her Majesty's ministers had acted wrongly in declining to call parliament together, or to cen sure them for having over-ridden the law and superseded the duty of the legislature, yet they must say that they could nut altogether agree in the measur, s which they had recourse to. It was impossible to view the operation of tho Employment Act, and Maly it had answered any good purpose. He could not concur in the right hon. gentleman's princi ples of political economy with respect to the supply of food and non.interference with trade. Those principles might be good at times ; but at a period when such an unprecedented calamity had fallen upon those who had been accustomed to live upon potatoes of their own growth, produced within a few yards of their own doors, and when there were no merchants or ret tilers in the whole of the west of Ireland, it was not reasonable to expect that a sup ly would suddenly spring up without government intethirence. This was a time when her Majesty's government should have bioken through the harsh and severe principles of political economy, and found the means of providing the people with food. If it were true that 10,000 people had perished from famine in the barony of Skibbereen, could it be argued that the ministry had done all that they could alp to supply the people with find? He now came to the measures of relief pro posed by her Majesty's ministers. He would first touch upon the proposition to remove the es. duty upon corn. Olt ar, hear). It was not the intention of hie friends to in terpose any obstacle to the repealing of the 4s. duty. (Hear, hear). At the same time they did not admit that the repeal of that duty would confer any benefit whatever on the consumer. That there would be a loss to the Exchequer there could be no doubt; but if the Chancellor of the Exchequer could spare three or four hundred thousand a year, they would not interfere, although they believed that every (lathing would go into the pockets of those corn-merchants, those forestallers, of whom the people of Ireland had such just cause to com plain, or into the pockets of the American merchants and agriculturists. (Hear, hear.) He had spoken of the preen of Indian corn. The price of wheat was 40s. at New York, and nearly 80s. at Liverpool. Into whose pocket would the difference go ? (Hear.) It would have been far better to raise the duty, and to apply the proceeds to feed the people. He did not expect to see much benefit accrue from the proposed interference with the navigation law+. It was now too late to :tumble the ships of foreign nations, and send them to America, whence they must chiefly look for a supply of grain. Had it been proposed to make a permanent altera tion in the navigation laws. he should have opposed such a proposition; but understanding from her Majesty's speech that all that was intended was a temporary suspension, he should not offer any obstru •tion to that measure. The real difficulty would be, not to find grain, but ships to carry . it. If her Majesty's government would cast aside their rigid principles of political economy, they had yet an opportunity of purchasing grain in the markets of New York, New Orleans, Boston, and Baltimore. There were eight ships of the line, having upon an average, a tonnage of '2,300 tons, and capable therefore of carrying at least 2,000 tons of grain each ; and he had the authority of one of the finest seamen in the British service for stating that if Ministers would grant permission to have the guns out of those ships, fit them for the voyage. and before the expiration of ten weeks return with 80,000 quarters of grain. Ns remedy appeared more simple as a means of supplying the people of Ireland in their present emergency. With respect to the foreign policy of the noble lord, it must he matter of great regret to the country that one result of that policy should be, that it was already on bad terms with the King of the French. If there was any sovereign with which this country was especially desirous to see a good understanding main tained, that sovereign was the one he had mentioned; and although he was glad to find that the noele bird had not pro tested against the Montpensiermarriage,and no longer pleaded the treaty of Utrecht as a barrier to it, yet he could not but express regret that anything should have occurred to produce a bad feeling between the monarchies of the two countries. He came next to that paragraph in the speech which stated there had been a violation of the treaty of Vienna. That was a grave charge to make against three of the most powerful sovereigns in Europe, with whom, or with whose predecessors, this country had fought so long the battle of European freedom. If the event alluded to were an infrac tion of one of the 17 supplementary articles, he would ask how many violations of the treaty had taken place previ ously ? What, for instance, was the severance act Belgium from Holland? He deeply regretted that his noble friend should have thought it his duty to express in such strong lan guage, in the 'Teeth from the throne, his condemnation of the conduct of three of our oldest and most powerful allies —the natural friends of England. He had not alluded to the intention of her Majesty's ministers to admit sugar into the distilleries and breweries. His (Lord G. Bentinck's) friends did not intend to oppose that proposition, but, at the same time, they did not think that any great benefit would be derived from it. He apprehended that if they re duced the price of barley they would raise the price of sugar, so that upon the whole the people would use se much as they did before. He did not believe the government would succeed in driving back the people of England to the use of barley bread, though (as was understood) he presumed that was their intention. He trusted that ministers would ietro duce measures which would tend to encourage the erupt y menu of capital in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) It was not by a lms, by gifts, and by Poor Employment Acts that Ireland could be benehtted. Her Majesty's ministers must pro. pound measures by which English enterprise would he encouraged and English capital would be poured into Ireland. (Hear, hear, hear ) He hoped that such measures would be introduced without the interference of his friends; but he would give notice that if her Majesty's ministers did not bring forward some comprehensive pro posal of that kind, he should at an early opportunity, with the advice of his party, propose a large and comprehensive measure for that purpose, (hear, bear.) Mr. ROEBUCK wished to express in a few words what he believed to be for the interest of the united countries of England andlreland at the present time. If it were in the power of any one man to say that the present misery should cease, there was nothing which he would not consent to do in order to obtain such an object. But a government had other considerations to take into account. A govern ment had to consider what MIS within its legitimate func tions, and to take care to observe the difference between a temporary and a permanent condition of society • and he warned the noble lord and his colleagues against the danger of altering that which should be a mere temporary expedient into a permanent mischief to the country. (Hear, hear, hear.) He knew that their sympa thies were appealed to ; he knew what it was fin- persons to come a begging from Ireland. (Laughter.) lie expressed his meaning in those term., and before he had done, he would illustrate the expression by very many ex amples He was quite prepared with his need of admira tion for the foresight displayed by the right hon. gentleman opposite (Sir It. Peel) last year ; yet he could not help say ing that the very measures which the right hon. gentleman carried had !seedy led to the very mischief which he anti cipated. No government could propose to itself the purpose of feeding a people. (Hear, hear, hear.) That was an axiom from which no wise statesman would deviate. A pressing emergency might arise calling for some extraordinary expedient ; but no government could possibly propose to itself to feed a people; and what had happened was the legitimate consequence of all that cant which they had seen in nearly every newspaper, both in this country and in Ireland, and which declared that the people had a right to labour and to a provision. He clewiei both propositions; he maintained that they could not as a govern. ment—for that was the way in which he guarded himself- - they could not, as a permanent habit, provide labour and pay for the people. If it were only for one year, or were any given time specified, he would lay down all he possessed to maintain the people of Ireland for that space of time ; but it was a permanency which they had to contemplate in making such a provision, and though the apprehended famine did not come last year, it had come now, aggravate by the statement that England must provide for the people, put forward by every bawling demagogue who wanted to exaggerate the misery of his country. He protested against a permanent provision being made for the Irish people. (Hear, hear.) He would now say a word about Irish land lords to speak of that class of Irish landlords fir whom the British Parliament had been legislating this 300 year: who had been legislated for as a body opposed in their interests to the people of Ireland who had been con tinued and supported by the English Parliament against the people of Ireland and who had wrought, for their own per. soiled purposes, all the mischiefs and miseries of Ireland. (Hear.) And let him explain how. An Irish landlord came into an estate he maid, upon taking possession of it, "if I build cottages fur the people here. I shall get the interest of my money in the shape of rent." Accord regardless of consequence+, he builds cottage+. , (" No" from Mr. Bernal (hltorne.) The new landlord said "he " never did. (A laugh) But the old landlo (Is had done en ; and by en doing, they had saved themselves from the operations of a poor law. What was the result ? That the Irish landlord had, on his estate, a pauper population. Privileges had been made for him by the British Parliament. lie had taken advantage of them, and had reduces! the people to the state of a pauper population spread over the whole country. And now, after centuries of legislation tending to these consequences, the Irish landlord turned towards England to ask England to maintain, not only him self, but the paupers he had created. What was, then, the clear duty of England i He (Mr. Roebuck) should ea) it was this—to insist the* the land of Ireland should maintain the people of Ireland. He was prepared to vote I'm a measure which would take from the sober, industrious, iutel ligere, laborious, peace-loving, law-obedient people of England, for the supper; of the rude system of anarchy predominant in that canary, which, by a singular misap plication of terms was called the " sister" kingdom. (" Hear," from the opposition.) " I ere," mid Mr. Roebuck, " that it has been said, by one who tell+ us, forsooth, that he is a ' representative .4 the people of Ireland,' that all the sympathy of the English people for their distressed fellow createres, is evinced in a scheme for bribing them into Pro testantism. Sir, I never in all my life felt so greatly the inferiority of a man who is pushed iateesnotoriety by extra neous circumstances, as I have dune within the last three months in contemplating the condition of Ireland. Ireland wanted a man. She wanted one who, setting aside all per. so. al cousiderations all miserable thooghta of private pelf, would look to the g ood of this country as his end and aim, and to her rescue from her present difficulties as his imme diste ohject. She did not find such a man; but, In his place she is altheted with one woo exacerbates ail het pas- sloes, an,' multiplies all her miseries. ledge the man who is to be con. idered as representing the people of Ireland ? I believe that he does no such thing. I believe the people et Ireland to b..• a great and an honest people, and i cannot believe they wou: 1 elect such a representative." But what they, the parliametit of England, now required, was security for what Ireland woold do for herself. Was it to be sa2d if Providence v sited a nation with famine, that, they. fore, all her population were to become beggars for the bounty of others ? Had they not a right to expect that these people would have some energies within themselves ; would exhibit some power of maintaining themselves? Among a people who cried out for nationality, was there not one man who could raise the standard of independence in the simple shape of not being a beggar? The English had had too much of this. If it had not been for England, the Irish, instead of now being a people afflicted with the chronic dis ease of famine, might have been a people doing something for themselves. Ireland was in just the state in which he had known many a country parish in England which was so unfortunate as to have a resident " henevoli nt lady." The" benevolent lady" naturally created a body of paupers around her. And so with Ireland. The English had been an industrious and a successful people, and out of their abundance they had fed the people of Ireland, 'till they became a race of pauper beggars. Such a state of things, however, could never last. Our benevolence could only be a passing benevolence. To maintain eight millions of people on charity was impossible ; and it was just this point that he wished to press upon the noble lord who sat before him—that it was impossible to maintain a people by " government regulation." (Hear, hear.) The mainspring of exertion—the jack-weight of social enterprise—was pri vate interest. Take that away, and the system became dis located—the machine would not go on. He warned the noble lord to bear this in mind, and exercising that civil valour for which every one gave him credit, not to yield to the clamour of his Irish supporters, but to consider that he was legislating for three kingdoms and not for one, and that it was necessary to establish this great leading principle that a people to be maintained must maintain themselves. (Cheers.) Depart from that rule, and he (Mr. Roebuck) said emphatically that there would be no end to the misery they would create—no termination to the direful consequen ces both to Ireland and to England. There was not a pauper in England who would not then have a right to rise up and say, " You fed the people of Ireland, now feed me." (Cheers.) But he knew it would be said, "If you impose a poor-law on Ireland you ruin the landowners." The present landlords were merely the nominal powessurs of the Irish land ; the mortgagees being the real possessors of it. Institute the English poor-law in Ireland and the consequence must be that those who were called Irish land owners would in nine cases out of ten be swept out and the mortgagee would take possession. What would be the conse quence? The mortgagees would have to take the responsibility of the landlords and to meet the circumetancesof the pc mle. " Oh !" but it would be said, " you would sweep away from Ireland all that is elegant, all that has leisure, all that contri butes to the civilisation of the state." What he (Mr. Roe buck) wanted was a " happy " state ; and he did not see bow, at present, the landlord system contributed to it. This was all h. wished to say on this subject. As to any tempo rary expedient for opening the ports, he was quite prepared to adopt it; indeed, he thought it ought to have been adopted two months ago. Not that he thought it would do any good—n'ither did he believe that much benefit would arise from the permission to use molasses in the brewing of beer. But, the hon. member continued, he could not sit down with( ut one word as to the paragraph in the speech advert ing to our foreign relations. In the present state of Eng land peace with all the world was of the greatest moment. We were fast c .ming, he hoped and believed, to that state of things when there would be a full understanding of its blessings, and a full understanding also of the mischievous conduct of that iran who, for idle purposes, desired to dis turb the tranquillity of Europe. Her Majesty's speech re ferred to the maniage of two young ladies in Spain, one occupying the position of queen and one the position of infanta. As an Englidi politician, he did not think that we had anything to do with the matter. It was said that the Minister of Foreign Affairs having taken some umbrage at the marria,gesof these young ladies had thought fit to enter a solemn protest against the right of the children of the Infanta's marriage to occupy the throne of Spain. Now, ha passed by the question whether the noble lord had been out witted or not: he (Mr. Roebuck) thought most probably he had ; but although this might be some excuse fer despatches (not indeed such despatches—such an undigest ed mass of compilatien, so bad in style and execution as those he had seen—but really sound despatches such as a foreign minister should write)—though, as he had said, the fact of being beaten might be some even. e for writing despa•ches, yet surely it could scarcely jive ify the entering of such a too test as that to which he (Mr. Roebuck) had referred. Why, what had we to do with the throne of Spain ? What had we to do with the question whether the Queen of Spain was 1 , likely to be fruitful or not ? Such matters might be interest ing to old gentlemen of 60 and young ladies of it, but, he must say, that for a foreign minister who was out of his teens to be entering into such discussions was rather beyond the line of his official duties. What right had we to interfere with the succession to the throne of Spain ? - - Mr. GRATTAN questioned the prudence and discretion of the speech of the hon. member fur Bath. His satire might be severe, but was it just ? Ills allusions to Ireland were certainly not calculated to pour either oil or vinegar on the wounds of the Irish people. Let the hon. member re collect that the houses in Regent-street, and Buckingham Paluee itself had been built with Irish money. (Hear.) Let him recollect that 100,0001. was annually taken from Ireland to beautify this metropolis, And yet he called the Irish people a nation of beggars. Why, all that had been grouted hitherto was 11,000/. The hon. member's allusions to Irish landlords were particularly misplaced. No set of men had ever been so grossly calumniated as the Irish landlords, who had actually not only given up their rents, but, in many cases, sold their horses and other things,—all for the sake of relieving their distressed peasantry. In one distillery in I Dublin (Mr. Rose's), 1,000 barrels of oat, were consumed' daily, which would furnish 16,000 stones of meal f r the starving people. The hon. member for Bath had come, like a blasting evil spirit, to sow sedition amongst the Irish party, but he was convinced those gentlemen would not follow either the advice or example of that honour able member. In reference to the principle which had been acted on by the government, in affording' relief to Ireland, he observed that it wait too bad to make people die by hundreds upon the principles of political economy. Government might have gent the experimental squadron to Odessa, or Smyrna, or New York, where there were 300 millions of bushels of Indian corn that could not be exported for want of ships. Had government done, three mouths ago, what they were now about to do, they would have saved the lives of hundreds. Mr. D. BROWNE said that he would not address the house, but for the bitterness of the hon. member for Bsth, who in order to void the acerbity of his waspish disposition, stated that Ireland was a curse to England. Mr. B. OSBORNE defended the conduct of the landlord.. of Ireland, and said that it could be proved that for the last two centuries they were an improved and an improving class. He condemned the government for placing Into the hands of her Majesty such a speech as that which was de livered by her that day. There never was a speech of a more thrilling nature as regarded Ireland. It congratulated the country that outrage and disorder had been suppressed as far as they might be by military and police. The proper way to repress outrage was by pouring in food. He was of opinion that somebody more competent than himself should move a voteof want of confidence in her Majesty's ministers. Sir R. INGLIS was glad the address woiild be presented unanimously to her Majesty. There were, of mune, dis puted points, but he would tint refer to them at present. Ile hoped the session, which had opened with to title prospect of comfort, would be blessed by the providence and grace of God, so that the evils which now appeared inevitable might by His mercy be turned away. Lord J. RUSSELL rose to address the house at a period when a great calamity affected a part of the kingdom, end he must thank the house fur the disposition whteli it had shown; not only to agree with unanimity to the address, but to consider the extent of the calamity, and the measures it might be thought proper to introduce, in a fair spirit, and without any mixture of party bias. Ile could not wonder that the hon. m irober for Limerick (Mr. S. O'Brien) should condemn the conduct of the government, because his opinion was so diametrically opposed to theirs; but he had to maintain as to the policy of the bon. member for Li merick, and which, he thought, was supported in a simi lar spi tit by his noble friend the member for Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck), it was a course which no government nughl to pursue, and it would certainly have led to a greater number of deaths front famine. The opinion of the lion. gen lemon was that the government ought to hare ransacked the world for foal, that they should have appeared as bidders in every market in Europe and America, and should have attempted to fiaid the people of Ireland with the produce thus procured. No sooner would such an intention have been deelar.d than there would have been an end at once of all private enter prise and of the application in this great country of the means and skill of our merchants—(hear, hear, hear)—and all would have been abandoned to the care of the government who had been so presumptuous as to undertake such a task. And what would have been the prices asked when it was known that the British government were the Wide), for the seho`e quantity of grain ? The noble lord had talked of a rise from 3s, to 95, in the price of Indian earn, but what would have been the rise in the price of wheat if the Enelish government had been obliged to buy it at whatever price it might be sold ? (Hear, hear.) But supposing such a course to have been adopted, there wee next to be undertaken the whole retail trade of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) They had heard of the great staff of officers at press w required, but what would it have been if they hail had to distribute this food in all parts of Ireland, and that of caws, must have been done at somewhat under the mat price ? lie would next ask what would bare been the course pursued with re g ird to the rest of the population of the United Kingdom ? By robbing the other parts of the country of the corn which would naturally have gone to them, the price would have been enormously increased, and how could such a course be justified? (Hear, hear.) Would not the labouring popula tion turn round and say, " Don't do this by halves—if you fly in the face of all the arguments of Mr. 'on and Mr. Pitt on the subject, let the work be wholly done, and let all the Ishouring claw* of the three kingdoms procure their food at fair prices, and you make yourselves responsible far the whole nit these operations ?" (Hear, hear.) With regard to some parts of Ireland where there hail been no trade in provisions, it had been said there might have been art inter ference on the part of the government. There were cases of exception, he admitted, and the government, in twenty-one or twenty-two places on the west of the Shannon, had esta blished depots where torn could be sold. and supplied them by government vessels. But he would not say that even that interference was without its evil, fur he had seen letters with regard to one of those places which stated that the government depot had caused a person who intended to set up a place for the sale of meal and flour to abandon his object. (Hear, hear) 101010 nu irr. , r, of corn h.,. neva puro...ssed Irons saw: to uwo Svc b‘lepi lug tubas depots. Than there were complaints male with reference to the employment of the poor under the Board of Works. No one could be more aware of the imperfections of the scheme, and the difficulty of remedying them, than he was, but at the same time be must say the principle WAS smad and just, because the question was not whether the works were useful or not, but whether it was a good mode of aseertaiuing who were the destitute, and furnish ing them with the means of procuring food without destroying industry. (Hear, hear.) It was a common mode of relief in this country to set men to break stones for a considerable period while distress prevailed, in order to keep the people supplied with food without interfering with the ordinary trade and labour of the country ; but immedi ately there was a demand for labour, the people left that em ployment which was the hardest and worst rewarded, to go to private employment and thus, when trade and industry revived, this demand on the poor rates had been relieved. (Hear, hear.) In Ireland the government had had to contend with two difficulties. At the commencement of the eperatiorus the number of persons employed did not admit of any effeet:ve labour—they were idle and loitering on the roads. (Hear, hear.) To remedy that evil task-work wan introduced ; but then, by means of task work, and weekly wages for its performance, a great portion of the men earned mere wages than they could get in the ordinary employments of industry ; and, therefore, instead of its being, as in England, the worst market into which they could bring their labour, it had been the beet, and had been preferred to any other. He mentioned these as instances of the difficulties with which the government had to contend. He could not but think, however much those works might have been neglected, that the employment of 470,000 persons, representing not is ss than 2,000,000, taking their families into account, and the payment of 158,000 f. in one week, which woe the amount of the last weekly account, showed that the government of the country was anxious, be it in error or be it in mistake, to mitigate the destitution of Ireland by the resources of the empire. Ile was (redline to say with his right hon. friend, that, considering this to be a national calamity, he thought the nationel resources were fitly employed in endeavouring to meet it. (Hear, hear, hear.) But considering what were the ordinary circum stances of the labouring population of Ireland for 30 weeks of the year, and that they lived upon one meal of potatoes a day no measureswhich the government could devise or parlia ment sanction, would prevent severe suffering. They would not, like the people of England in such circumstances, meet the calamity by abstaining from comforts, because they had no comforts, and they never had more than a sufficiency of food. With regard to the measures which they bad taken, the government must be responsible; and they would not consent that any enbonitnate officer should bear any part in their responsibility. (Hear, hear, hear ) Mr. Trevelyan was an intelligent gentleman of indefatigable and un tiring zeal, and with regard to any orders received or orders transmitted if blame was to be given and censure let it fall on them and not on Mr. Trevelyan. (Hear, yawed With regard to the nature of the measures pro- posed in the early pert of her Majesty's speech, those relating to the admission of corn and the suspendon of the navigation laws, it bad been said that those measures should have been taken in November. That matter was seriously c nsidered at the time, but it was considered that it would not be ad visable to draw away, at the commencement of a severe pressure, those persons who had sesta in either house of parliament. With regard to the corn-law, the duty was not 14s. or 125., as it was last year, It was reduced to 41. by the act of last session, and. though he thought it right to recommend its suspension, he was of npinion that the quantity of corn which would be imported in consequence would be very considerable. (So we under stood the noble lord.] In the next place, there was an im pression at that time that wheat would not be high in price, and it fell for some weeks from 63*. to 535. On the whole, then, he did not thiuk they would have been justified in calling parliament together in November, and still less would they have been justified, after the deviation from the act of parliament made by the lord lieutenant, in introducing an order in council to set aside the law, without calling parliament together. There was no commensurate advan tages for the danger of such an example. There were two or three other topics in her Majesty's speech, on which he would address a few remarks to the house. 'f he hon. and learned member for Bath, entered a goal deal, after pro fessingthat he did not mean to enter, into the Montpensier marriage. He read the translations of some of the papers which had been read in the French chambers, which were imperfect and incomplete. He had given judgment upon those pipers, and he conceived that the succession of any children of the Infanta would not be contrary to the peace of Utrecht. He thought it desirable to maintain the alliance with France, and not express an opinion on the subject. He did not mean to enter into the discussion before the papers were produced. lie should be quite willing to leave the defence of any conduct of his for which he was responsible, as a member of the government, to the despatches of his noble friend, which would he laid licfore the house. But he could not agree to the doctrine which was entertained in some quarters that matters of this kind were not worth the attention of the British parliament. And he was the more inclined to differ from that opinion because he agreed that there was a general indifference to foreign politics in this country, and that public opinion did not take the same warmth and interest which they (lid in domestic policy, in questions in which their foreign policy was concerned. But if the government of the country were to show a similar apathy, and if, some years after it appeared that injury had been done to the power and station of the country, public opinion would blame, and justly blame, the minister of the crown. (Hear, hear.) The people of the country would say that they showed indif ference, because they reposed . confidence in the government which was charged with their relations, and supposed that they would see no essential injury was done. lie could not but think that the matter was one of serious evil, if any ex pectation should :be formed by the French government of uniting the two countries. He could not but think that the attempts made by Louis the Fourteenth and by Napoleon to govern the destinies of Spain, to unite both countries in one system of Cosign policy would be, if repeated again, more likely to lead to disputes in Europe than if the governments were conducted separately and independently, and each only attended to its own in terests. (Hear, hear.) He was only saying what appeared to him to be a general, and at the same limo an incon trovertible axiom. It had been their policy to prevent such a preponderance of any power in Europe as might lead to war, and he could not think it a wise policy which world not endeavour, by the efforts of diplomacy, to prevent a con tingency which, though it might appear remote, yet might happen in a few years. The govern ment which preceded them took a great interest in the question, and it was not a mere conference between sovereigns, as the hon. and learned member seemed to sup pose, but it was Lord Aberdeen, the 'Mini-ter for Foreign Affeire, who entered into a conference with M. Guisot on the subject. Ile no doubt eonsidered it a matter in which England had an interest, and he received aseurances which were so far satisfactory to him that he did not think it necessary to take any urgent steps on the sub ject. But the line which lie took, and which he (Lord John Bernell) thought be was right in tak ing was to toy that if the Queen of Spahr should prefer a descendant of Philip V., and the country approved of it England would make no objection, but she conld not pro pose any candidate that would be disagreeable to Spain. Neither could ahc consent that the marriage of the Queen of Spain should immediately place a memloev of the royal fa mily of France on the throne of Spain. They had not complete information of all that the French government had done, because much had been done by means of letters and communications of which no trace was left behind; but the government agreed in what be be lieved was the line pursued by the late government, and did not wish to have any candidate. And with regard to one in particular, Prince Leopold of Saxe Coburg, they never for a moment entertained the wish to put him forward, or to sup port any pretensions he might entertain with regard to the throne of Spain. And in any advice which he gave his sove reign, he found a ready willingness; nor did her Majesty ever wish at any time, as he believed, that Prince Leopold should be a candidate for the hand of the Queen of Spain supported by England. He said this, because be knew it had been industriously pent about that it was a dispute between the French royal family, in an attempt to place a member of their family on the throne at Madrid, and a counter attempt on their part to place a mince connected with the royal family of England in that pu-ition. Now, so far se he was concerned, or so far as the late government was concerned, as he believed, there never had been such an attempt. (Hear, hear, from sir It. Peel.) He did not know what Prince Leopill I would have said to the proposition if formally made to him by the government of Spain. Ha had been told that he was not likely to entertain it. But, however that might be, he said they would not recommend to Spain a candidate of their own, or be in any . way con cerned in the future internal government of Spain. (Ilea, hear.) When they thought that the alliance formed so might be prejudicial to the balance of power in Europe, they did not hesitate to express their opinions upon A ,• sod, though the hon. member for Oxford thought they Weida have made no observations thereon to France, he (Lord J. Russell) considered that it was more frank and more becoming to the nation, to state what their objections were. (Hear, hear.) They by no means, as was supposed, com mitted the wovernmeut of the country to future events; but what they said, is substance and in spirit, was, that, looking to the dangers that might flow from what had been done, and that it was possible a con test might hereafter arise with regard to the succes sion to Spain, and that whenever that cue occurred Eugland would take that course which was most essential for her position amongst the powers of Europe, and most in conf irmity at the Caine time with the wi.l of Spain—(hearr, hear)—because he perfectly admitted with regard to these matters, that if the prince who reigned in Spain was not one to whom they could object on clear grounds of t r eaty, the wish of Spain should be paramount on the subject. (hear, hear.) It was ailftfrftioteii all halide that the treaty of Utrecht provided that one and the same Nina ought not to reign both in France and Spain. Ail he would say, was that he most sincerely regretted that he found himself opposed in opinion to what had been done by the government of France, for he Gilt it was desirable that this country and France should be on close terms of friendship. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the other sub ject of foreign affairs which had been touched on, the extinc tion of the free state of Cracow, there was so little difference of opinion, that he felt it to be unnecesiary to pay more than that it seemed as if the tai .t which attached to the first partition of Poland that most unholy act—(loud cheers) —the moat to be condemned of any act amongst nations in the history of modern Europe, attached to this last remnant of a Polish state, and to induce the p swi rs parties to the incorporation of the free state of Cracow into the do minions of Austria, into that forgetfulness of all oblii gations to that most precipitate, and, as far as itt appeared to him without any justifiable cause, abuse of their power without considering the relations of justice which they were bound to observe. (Loud cheers.) Ile wosld say nn muse .11 this enhieet sill tee papers were presented to the house. On Mouway next he would give an outline to the