The Express. — London, England, 1848-06-23 00:00:00

1M PE ttl AL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—TmaDAY, luxe 22. Tke Loan CHANCaLLOR took bin seat at 6 o'clock. PItIYITE ROSINESS. gEOOND READINOS.—Leeds Central Nadirs; Station ; Tadeaster and Melton that ftnad ; Bil s. THIRD KB Ntalland Railway (alteration of the line and branches near Wellingborough, and approach to tho Wellinaturonah &Atm) Great Yarmouth coal Duties ;No BOUM Railway (No. 1) (increase and division of capital} • Hilts. PUBLIC iii:SINEF.S. HECOND REA DIV:S.—Gam, (Whitest,. for Willing Dorn; f er titleatea foe Kill,g Hare. (Scotland); C ri mi n al law consolidation (No. 21: Opvhold Enrnmehirement ESteribion • Hills. REPORT OF AME.NOMENTS.—Evicted Destitute Poor (baleful Bill. GAME CERTIFICATES FOR KILLING HARES BILL; AND GAME CERTIFICATEi FOR KILL ING HARES (scorLANL) BILL. The Duke of RICHMOND moved the second reading of these bills. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH would not oppose the hills at this stage, although in many respects ho thought them objectionable. 'The Earl of MALMESBURY also objected to the bills, and would muse severnl rmendments in committee. The E irl ot CARDIGAN viewed the measures with great distrust. He thought it • first step towards a repeal of the game laws. The Duke of RICHMOND defended the bills SS most reasonable slid proper measures, as their object was to permit the occupiers of land to kill harts without taking out a certi ficate. Earl GREY said the game laws were impcsed to ruse revenue. and not preserve game; pers ;US who shut for their own amuseaterit should pay for licenses ; but the case was very different with those who killed hares merely for the preservation of their property. The Earl of YARBOROUGH would not oppose the second reading. Tie bills were then read a second tim,. SPAIN. Lord STANLEY wished to inn a enes'ion to the noble 1 ; 01 la lt io the recent correspi.r." nce be tween the Spanish gov,rnment and the government of her Majesty. Auer the Spanish government had taken the very strange step, which perhaps could not be justified under any circumstances, of dismissing Sir H. Bulwer at so short • notice, supposing th it it would excite great indignation in this country, they has., ned to remove that impiession by sending over Cou..t Mirasol to explain the circumstances under which 60 strong a course had been adopted, and that gen tleman urived on the 2jih of May. But the noble vis count at the head of foreign affairs—he would not say whether c•rrectly cr incorrectly—came to the conclusion that he would hot receive any communicition from the Spaniel' government unless it conic through Senor Isturitz, the Spanish minister here ; and on the 14th ol June, without having had an o;Tortunity of submitting to the British government the papers explanatory of the motives of the Spanish government, which had been sent by a confidential agent, and with suers haste that, he believed, that agent had arrived in this country before Sir IL Bulwer, the Spanish ambassador quitted England. It was under these circumstanees that the government had laid the corre spondence on the table, with an intimation that it had wholly and entirely closed. lie believed, however, that within 21 hours after Senor Isturits bail left this coturry a courier arrived with despatches giving permission to him to communicate to the British government the documents b - curd by Count Mirasol, and other papers. Ile Wshi d to ask the noble marquis, first, whether a supplementary communication bad in the first instance been made by Count Mirasol, and whether directions hail subsequently been given to the Spanish minister hero to make that communi cation ? If se, whether it had been made ; and if made, whether it had been accepted and received by the Foreign office ? And it so received, he wished to know whether it arm the natation of ministers to submit such papers and ex planations to the consideration of parliament before they were called upon to decide on the merits of the question ? The Marquis of LANSDOWNE (who was all but inau dible in the gantry) o u understood to say that no further communication had been made to her Majesty's government on the subject referred :o. No communication, in fact, could have been received since diplomatic relations between the two countries hat ceased. (Hear, hear.) Lord STANLEY wished to know whether since the de parture of Senor Isturitz there had been a tender by any person what, ver, on the part of the Spanish government, of the explanations to which he had referred ? The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was understood to say that the re had not, because it could not have been received. Lord BROUGHAM—Then we can only see one side of the question. The Earl of ABERDEEN said, that in such a state of things they could not be called upon to pronounce any opi nion on the subject of the correspondence in question. They must necessarily wait for that information which had been declined by her Majesty's government—they must wait un til the Spanish government took the meats of communicating it to the world.. (Hear, hear.) CRIMINAL LAW CONSOLIDATION BILL. Lord BROUGHAM moved the second reading of this bill ; and concluded by raying it was his intention to refer the whole matter to a select committee. The LORD CHANCELLOR approved of the noble and learned lord's proposition to refer so complicated a subject to a select committee. Lord CAMPBELL also thought it desirable that the mea sure should be fully considered. The Earl of I'OWIS called attention to a clause in the bill enacting severe penalties on deans and chapters for refusing to obey letters missive to the crown nominating to bishoprics. He complained of such a clause, and hoped it would not be allowed to pass without the fullest consideration. Lord BROUGHAM said the bill proposed no more than that which was now part of the law of the land. Lord DENMAN hoped this matter would be taken alto gether out of the criminal code. The law bad been arci dentaily and carelessly enacted by a statute of Edward VI., and he thought there was a genetic' wish that it should be done away with. After a few words from the Earl of ELLiNnOROUGIT, the motion was agreed to; and Lord BROUGHAM nominated the select committee. COPYHOLD ENFRANCHISEMENT EXTENSION BILL. On the motim for the second reeding of this bill, Lord WEI ARNCLIFF E present2d a petition from the lord of the manor of St. John, Clerkenwell, praying for pro tection from certain provisions of the bill, and stated at some length the object which the petitioner had in view. As far Ad as c d be collected in the gallery, the petitioner objected to a compulsory valuation of his property, and prayed exemp tion from the operation of the bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR said the bill was not in tended to interfere with any voluntary arrangements. It professed only to deal with particular circumstances of the tenure, which at present rendered the property less valuable, and its object was to make the property more valuable to both landlord and tenant. Great inconveniences arose from the present copyhoid tenure. The bill dealt with fines, heriots, wastes (including the mode of dealing with the timber), and sought to improve the interests of all parties concerned. The operation of heriots was most injurious : if the holder of a cepyhold tenement died, his most valuablelproperty might be seized by the lord of the manor. There were many other equally injurious things. connected with the eopykold tenure. Wastes were a very un certain source of profit to the lords of the manors owing to the difficulty of making a just estimate. To remedy this, the bill proposed to give a settled sum to the landlord, to be made the subject of previous estimates. The system 01 fines had operated most prejudicially ; its tendency in many cases waster prevent improvement by the tenant. He could cite a case in point, where a small estate of six acres, in Herefordshire, had been subjected to a fine of 4,0001., be cause the Court of Chancery had appointed the trustees and these were held to be so many new lives in the lease, and a proportionate fine on renewal was charged. The question was only settled after thirteen years' litigation, and four trials. The bill also proposed important improvementa in the maims. sot timber, for the purpose of adjusting contending claims. It was admitted at present that copyhold tenure prevented the parties from deriving the full benefit of the property ; and to put an end to this state of things, it was proposed to '.onvert such property into freehold, by giving tenants a right is call on the lords to accept a fair compensation for their Interest. One great difficulty which they had had to deal with was the stewards' fees, which were regulated by dif ferent customs in different manors. These would be simpli fied, by the establishment of a scale, and interfered with as little as possible. It had been suggested that in some cases an arbitrary fine might be necessary u a protection ; and to meet these cases he should propose a clause in committee. He hoped their lordships would consent to the second read ing of this bill, which he now moved. The Marquis of SALISBURY said that in all cases of this kind, where legislative interference had been exethised, it had been customary to give a compensation, or at least an option, to the parties who were likrly to be aggrieved. Ito believed that under the operation o this bill cop hold tenures would totally disappear. He therefore moved that it be read a second time that day six months. Lord BEAUMONT thought the bill desirable, but ob. jetted to its taking away from the lord of the manor the pro- tection he now enjoyed without giving him anything in lieu of it. It gave the copybold tenant the power of forcing a sale to the prejudice of the lord of the manor, while the latter had no power of forcing the tenant to a commutation or sale of his interests. He would support the bill, bat hoped to see It altered in this respect. Lord REDESDALE said that the bill amounted to such a dangerous violation of principle that, if carried one step further, it would place property in the same position it now was in on the Continent, and materially affect the whole system of leases and lives. He, therefore, supported the amendment Lord CAMPBELL defended the bill. The Earl of HARROWBY observed, there was one uni versal feeling in the country as to the great inconvenience resulting from the existing system. Lord STANLEY said the bill went much further than the recommendation of the commissioners, for it not only made the enfranchisement compulsory as against the lord of the manor, or a certain number of the tenants joining toge ther in demanding it, but it also empowered the lord, he having consented to such demand, to compel those tenants whose assent had not been obtained, to commute their copy hold into a permanent tenure. Lord ABINGER thought it better to adhere to the jaw seat system of voluntary commutation. After a few words from the Lord CHANCELLOR in repay, Their lordships divided—Contents 3l Non-contents l6-16 The bill was then read a secoad time. EVICTED DESTITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL. The Earl of CLARENDON moved the further considera tion of the amendments proposed on the report Lord MONTEAGLE said that he had assented to the snood reading of the bill, believing that its principle was in all lair and just cases to make provision for everted tenants. In its present shape, however, it was open to assay objeo tie's. Be would now move that the bill be recommitted. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said ke should not object .0 the re-committal of the bill, having himself sundry amendments to propose- After a conversation, the LORD CHANCELLOR quitted the woolsack, but the house wu delayed going into committee by the absence of Lord Shaftesbury. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved dist Lord Beau mont should take the chair. Lord REDESDALE objected that no one could legally put this question, the Lord Chancellor having left the chair. After • desultory discussion, the house went into commit , tee, Lord Beaumont in the chair. On the Ist clause, The Marquis of CLANRICARDE proposed an amend ment as to the hours within which the notices of evictions were required to be served on the boards of guardians, ren dering it necessary that they should be served between sun rise and sunset, and a week before the eviction. Lord S lAN LEY renewed the question as to the point of order on Lord Beaumont taking the chair, and suggested that in order to be perfectly regular the Louse should resume and the question should be put from the woolsack that Lord Beaumont do take the chair. After a few words from the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, the LUND CHANCELLOR, Lord CAMPIieLL, Lord REDEsUALE, Earl GREY, and the Earl of !MA TO, the subject dropped, and the &au.e as amended was agreed to. On clause 2, Lord hIONTEACiLE proposed an amendment requiring notice of the num.& of evicted persons to be relieved to be given to the relieving ollicer of the union instead of to the beard of guardians. Earl °HEY said he attached great importance to the bill, because there was grossing up in Ireland a disposition to rteist the fair rights of property, which it would correct, and he hoped t' tic lordships would accept it in its present form, passed as it hail been by the almost unanimous assent of the other house, and not endeavour to reduce protection and reliet to the tenant to its minimum. Lord DIONTEAULE said his obk ct was not to turn the landlord against the tenant, but to give relief by the reliev ing °Seer more rapi.dy and certainly than was propos:d by the bill. Earl GLENGALL thought the bill so clumsy and ill dige,ted that it would be practica b ly inoperative. After a few words from the Ein St. Cleastass, 'their lordships divided on the amendment — Contents 23 Non-contents 23 The numbers being equal the amendment was carried, and the clause as amended M. 131 agreed to. The remaining clauses were also agreed to, and on the house resuming, the bill was reported with the amendments. Their lordships adjourned at ten minutes to 12 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TIIURSDAT, JUNG 22. The Bream's' took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. REPORT CONSIDERED. -Londonderry Improvement Bills. THIRD READINGS.-Dover harbour; Edinburgh and Northern Railway tßiwoolne, licltyhead, and filet eraite branches, t Great %hitt en Railway (branch from Slough to Windsor) ; Great Wentern Railway (to cooler additional powers on the company, with referener to the purchase of the Birmingham and Oxford Junction, Sic., Rail ways) ,• Great Wextern Railway (loop line from the Birmingham and Oxford Junction Railway through Lamin. ton); Liverpool, Men- Seater, and Seise:gall...upon-Tyne Junction Railway (bun of the railway and doaolutiun of the company) ; London and South- Western Railway Company and Southampton and Dorchester Railway Company Amalmumition ; PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS.-By Load It STUART, from Mr. Nash and a com mittee, setting forth his exertions In prosecuting and defeating gongs of railway depredators, at great expense, and praying for an investi gation at d an ulteratioa in the law to prevent interference with pro. OBAMOIII4 by the appointment of public pro xecutont-lord Id. ISEN TINCE, from West India agent., complaining of the ineMeiency of the government proposal for relieving the dixtress of ltic.c columef. GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY (BRANCH FROM WINDSOR TO SLOUGH ) On the motion for the third reading of this bill, Mr. DIsItAELI opposed the motion on the ground that the railway would prove injurious to Eton College. The South Western Company had a project for the same purpose Lot it wit thrown out by the committee on the bill mainly on the evidence of the noble lord the First Commissioner of Woods and Forests. Wculd the house believe that, after this, the Great Western Company were supported by the noble lord in a project of the same kind? He was not there to ad vocate the cause of the South Western Company, whose in terests had been sacrificed ; but he was there to advocate the interest/ of his constituent/ and of Eton School, to which this bill would do irremediable injury. How was it that the government gave their support to this bill whilst they gave the most strenuous opposition to a bill for a similar purpose ? Was it because the Great Western Company had paid 25,0001. into the drpartment of the Woods and Forests to disturb the sottlement for which the South Western Company had' already paid 60,0001.1 The hon. gentleman concluded by moving that the hill be raid a third time this day mix months. Mr. CAMPBELL seconded the motion. Col. REID bore testimony to the patience which the committee gave to the consideration of the bill, but he be lieved they came to an unsound conclusion. He was sorry to feel obliged to complain of the conduct of a minister et the crown on this occasion. lie accused the noble lord (Mor peth) of a breach of faith, and of a violation of the agree ment which was entered into with the South-Western Com pany. Out of consideration to the crown the South-Western Company had abandoned their original scheme, and paid 60.0001. for works which were performed under the super intendencel of the Woods and Forests department. But the house would judge their astonishment when an agreement between the noble lord and the Great Western Company was afterwards produced, by which the consent of the crown was-he would not mince the matter-sold for 25,0001, to that very project which woo opposed in the ease of the South- Western Company, and which they consented to abandon out of respect to the crown. (Hear, hear.) Lord MORPETH said that he would leave to those who represented the interests of the Great Western Company in that house the task of illustrating any antecedents in this question with which that company was concerned, and he would leave the committee who reported on the bill the task of elucidating the details which were brought before them. But as a direct charge was brought against himself individually, inculpating him of breach of faith and trust, he hoped the house would allow him to offer a few observa tions on the question, both with regard to that part of the bill which related to Windsor, and that part of it which re lated to the interference with Eton Col:ege. But, grave as the charge of breach of faith sounded be viewed it with little concern, feeling in his own mind perfectly conscious that, throughout these complicatedtranseetions, he had acted with candour, frankness, and fairness towards all the parties with wham he had successive yto deal. (Hear, hear.) It was not desirable to use the name of the crown or to re. present the private feelings of the crown in that house. But when a measure was under consideration that involved the personal comfort of the crown and the beauty of the Windsor demaus, he thought the house would treat the crown with as much respect as any other party. The proprietors of Windsor Castle were not anxious for further railway &acorn. modation between London and Windsor; but the inhabit ants of Windsor, feeling anxious for a direct communication between their town and the metropolis, and certain improve ments for the health and recreation of the crown being also desired by the same parties, the proprietors of Windsor, through the proper channel, intimated to the Great Western and South-Western Companies that if they would promote the improvements in question the crown would withdraw its objections to their schemes. As far as he was concerned, he had never, in his dealings with one of those lines, at all committed himself as regarded his arrangements witlithe other. It was said that be had entered into a conclusive arrangement with the South- Western last year. No such arrangement, however, had ever been entered into. He did not disguise, however, that he anxiously supported the South-Western bills last year. Had he not done so, those bills would never have been passed, and certainly he felt little prepared for the return which they were now making him. In his evidence before the committee on those very measures he had distinctly given his opinion in favour of the line proposed by the bill now before the house. [The noble lord quoted his evidence to that effect.] Ife had distinctly stated on that occasion that this measure should have the consent of the crown; and yet he was now told by the South Western that he was guilty of a breach of faith. Now as to the circumstances of this line as they affected Eton College : he hoped he yielded to no one in his reverence for Eton College, not even to the hon. member for Bucking hamshire, over whom he had the single advantage of being an Etonian: but he thought it very possible that the autho rities of Eton College, like other learned bodies, were some what too timid respecting the approach of rimy disturbing influence to a seat of learning and of education. Eton Col. lege, however, as far as its men of business were concerned, was far from being opposed to the construction of this line. He held in his hand a letter from the College registrar repudiating all participation in the opposition to this measure, and thanking him (which was some consolation under these attacks) for the attention be had paid to the interests of the college. On a review of all the circum stances he must conclude by saying that he thought this bill had great claims on the consideration of the crown and on the justice of the country. Mr. WALPOLE, as an old Etonian, thought it easy to show that the report of the committee upon this bill ought to be upheld. Lord H. VANE, as chairman of the committee last year, was anxious, first, to exonerate the noble lord from the charge of bad faith to the South Western Cesupeny ; and, secondly, to state that he felt entirely saddled from what had been said that the interests of Bun College would not be affected by the bill. (Divide.) Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE thought that, as a matter of convenience and of justice, they ought not to pass this bill. Mr. F. SCOTT, as a director of the South Western Com pany, wished to say that in 1847 he had pl.dged himself to pay 60,0001. for the very advantages which the noble lord op posite now proposed to take away from them. The College of Eton was not unanimously in favour of this bill, whilst the school was unanimously against it. The registrar, whom letter had been referred to, had always been the par tisan of the Great Western Railway. Mr. RICE, as a member of the committee, had always felt that the Great Western Railway had the beet claim to the communication with the town of Windsor. Mr. K. SEYMER observed that last year Lord Morpeth had been supposed, even by officers of the crown, to have given evidence against this bill. The house divided—For the third reading 224 Against it The bill was then read a third time and passed. GREAT WESTERN AND OXFORD_AND RIR- MINGHAM JUNCTION RAILWAY BILL. The third reading of the bill for conferring on the Great Western Railway Company the power to purchase the Bir mingham and Oxford Junction Line, &e., was then moved, but we did not collect by whom. ....... THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING. JUNE 23. 1848. Mr. LABOCCILARR desired the peat ne.ent of the measure, as being likely, In the opinioa of the Railway Baud, to operate injuriously upon the general railway interert of the ministry, U prematurely assented to. The experieace of ,the working of the mixed gauge upon • lengthened line was not yet suf ciently . ma ture to enable the house to pate • final judg ment on the principle. And until this experience was attained, it would be in the highest degree unadvisable to sanction the extension of the principle. The double gauge was now being tried on two tolerably long lines— the ktugby and Oxford, and the Wolverhampton, Oxford, and Worces ter, sad the experience upon these railways would enable parliament to determine whether or not the same principle sheald be extended to other lines. lie moved that the third reading be postponed till Monday, in coder that the clauses relating to the double gauge might then be struck out. Sir E. HAYES supported the recommendation of the select committee in favour of the bill. Sr It. H. INGLIS would went to the amendment. Mr. E. DENISON said that the consent of the house to Sew measures would involve • breach of the pledge which bad been given to the Buckinghamshire railways, that the railways to Birininghem should be upon the narrow gauge. Mr. MONTY, and that the rule of the house to support its committees ought not to be departed (rein on the present occasion, which gave no grounds fur an exception to the rule. lie considered thtt the double gauge had been suffi ciently tried for the purposes of this bill. Dir. HUDSON said he had the honour of presiding over the six mike upon which the double gauge was at work, end he conaidered that it was impossible, from the complication of the system, to work it satisfactorily. (Hear, hear.) With out erupt:tieing of the committee, he begged to exprew an opinion that, in its search for information on the subject, it would not have done ill to have called before it the engineer of the Midland railway, on which these six miles of double gauge were being tried. (Hear, hear.) Ile was of the cm viction that the double gauge could not be worked upon any length of line. He found it all but intolerable, even upon six miles of railway ; it would be perfectly intolerable upon a greater distance. (Hear, hear.) Mr. cuitisTOPllElt said that the committee hail ex amined both the engineers, and then consent d the Govern ment Surveyor before they came to any decision upsn the clauses. That decision was in favour of the two gauges being worked upon the line of rail. Mr. HUDSON denied having made any personal allusion to the hon. member for Whitby. Sir H. VERNEY (amidst cries of "divide"), said that the experiment of the double gauge already tried upon the Gloucester and Cheltenham Railway was not hostile to its being made with fleeces, upon • longer line of rail. The house divided—For the third reading .... 147 For peep ming the bill .. 72-76 The bill was they read a third time and passed. REFORM—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr. COBDEN, in the absence of Mr. Hume, postponed the adjourned debate on the motion tor a reform in the House of Commons from this day (Friday) to Friday next, which day the government had consented to give up to the hon. member for that purpose. 1 WRIT FOR HORSHAM. Mr. GORING moved that Mr. Speaker do issue his war rant to the clerk of the crown to make out a new writ for the electing of a burgess to serve in this present peril anent for the borough of Horsham, in the room of John Jervis, Esq., whose election has been determined to he void. Mr. AULIONBY (amidst cries of "divide ") said that the decision of Wednesday in favour of issuing the writ for Cheltenham had paced the house in a contradictory position with respect to the suspended writs. Scrjeant TALFOURD should vote in favour of the motion. Sir C. BURRELL bore testimony to the honourable character of the electors of Horsham. Mr. HAYTEIt said there was ample time for the bill of the hon. member for Flint to be passed into a law Outlive the present session. lie should vote against the isue of the writ tor Horsham, in conformity to the two previous deci sions come to by the house with respect to this came borough. Mr. BANKES said he should be ashamed of the House of Commous if, on account of two slight caves of treating, they could be induced to refuse to issue the writ for the borough of Hors ham , lie was only sorry the writ had been so loug delayed. - - The house divided—For the motion ,54 Against it...... —SO-4 The writ was accordingly ordered to be inued. REMOVAL OF JUDGE MONTAGU. Mr. ANSTEY, in moving fur copies of the despatches re ceived at the Colonial-office, from the Governor of Van Diemen's Land, relative to the removal of Judge Montagu, asked the hon. UnderSceretary fur the Colonies how it was that the receipt of the important despatches in question had been kept front his knowledge fur three days alter their arrival t Mr. B. lIAWES sail that the hon. member made a much ado about nothing. The despatches in question bring very important, and involving I questions of consider able intricacy, had been retained by the other under-colonial secretary for consuls ration (he being a lawyer), before they were sent to the noble earl at the head of the department. The return was then ordered. DIFFERENTIAL DUTIES ON RUM. Sir L. O'BRIEN liegged to ask some of the hon. gentle men on the treasury bench to answer a question which he had to put to the right hon. baronet the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, whom he did not see in his place. The question was, whether it was the intention of the right hon. baronet to per- List in the differential duty of 4d. on rum ? Mr. B. HAWES begged the hon. baronet to put his ques tion tomorrow (this day), as no notice had Seen given of his intention to put it. Sir L. O'BRIEN said that be had given the Chancellor notice of his intention to ask the question six hours ago. SUGAR DUTIES.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. The order of the day for the adjourned debate on this ques tion being read, Lord O. BENTINCK took that opportunity of presenting a petition from the West Indian agents in this country com plaining of the int tliciency of the government proposition towards affording any relict to the West India plant, re. On the motion that the Speaker do leave th,. chair, Sir L. O'BRIEN said that as he had 'ailed in getting . an anew, r to what he deemed to be a most imoortant question, he should feel it his duty to move the adjournment of the house. Mr. SPOONER seconded the motion. Mr. HAWES intimated that the hon. baronet had not given the usual notice of his question. Sir L. O'BRIEN.—I gave a written notice to-day. Mr. HAWES said that that could hardly be considered a sufficient notice. Mr. C. ANSTEY said that the intention of the hon. bozo net to ask the qa slice was notorious. Mr. F. MAULE said that the caws was one of a very un precedented nature, and one which he could not very well understand. (Laughter.) Surely the hon baronet did not , mean to persist in a motion which, if carried, would cause , the loss of an evening for a most important debate. (Hear, hear.) Mr. C. ANSTEY persisted in thinking that the , Chancellor of the Exchequer had had sufficient notice of the question. Mr. SPOONER said that the facts were, that on that , morning the Irish members had an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and put to him a question respecting the differential duty on rum, to which they could , get no answer. It was then determined that the question should be asked in the house, and due notice was given. Lord J. Russell entered the house.) Perhaps as the noble lord at the head of the government was now present he would be able to solve the difficulty. Mr. ROBINSON.—Perhaps the Chancellor of the Ex chequer might be in his place in the course of the evening ; if so, the better way would be to proceed at once with the debate. (No, no.) Lord J. RUSSELL—With respect to the question which has been asked, I have in the first place to observe that it does not immediately affect the question before the house. It is part only of a plan of which 1 laid the outline on a for mer evening. As soon as my right hon. friend has made up his mind he will inform the house. (A laugh.) lam not prepared to make any detailed statement now, but I think it would be hardly fair to defer a debate on the sugar duties until the answer had been obtained. Sir L. O'BRIEN said that many votes would depend on the answer, and, therefore, he was unwilling that the debate should proceed until he had obtained it. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL.—I am not going to make any state ment with a view of securing the hon. baronet's vote. We made the proposition which we thought best for all the interests concerned. The hon. baronet will act according to his own views; we will only propose such measures as we think best for the public. (Hear, hear.) Lord G.BENTINCK.—In my opinion the house is placed in a most extraordinary position. (Hear, hear.) It is pro posed to go into committee, to consider the government plan respecting the sugar duties, but half of that plan re fers to the differential duty on West India rum. Now we hear that, unknown to tne house, something like a bargain has been transacted out of doors between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Irish members. (" Hear," and "no no," from the treasury benches) Now, the West Indioni are not satisfied with the concession originally promised, and in any case the house is not in a condition to decide until we are in possession of the whole government plan. It occurs to me that the subject started by the hon. baronet the member for Clue goes to the very gist of the whole question. Lori J. RUSSELL said that the noble lord had greatly misunderstood him. What he (Lord John Russell) had said was that government, in their propositions, would be guided by the public interest alone, and the noble lord pretended to understand that something like a bargain had been entered into with certain Irish members. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (who had just entered the house) said—The facts of the cue are these: 1 yesterday heard that a deputation of Irish members wished to see me respecting the differential duty on rum, and on other matters, respecting which I had previously had an in terview with the Irish distillers, namely, an allowance on wastage when taking British spirits out of store. My hon. friend opposite (Sir L. O'Brien) and five other Irish mem bars waited on me and stated their opinion, founded on representations they had received from the Irish , distillers, that reducing the differential duty on rum from ninepence to fourpence would be prejudicial to the Irish spirit trade. I heard the deputation with deference, stated that I would submit their views to government, and that, • as to the second portion of their request, that respecting the wastage, I had fur some time had it under consideration, and , would, if it could be safely done, concede it. It was certainly • intimated to me thst the votes of these gentlemen would depend on my answer, and I Raid that I had prepared what I believed beat adapted for the public interests, and ' that as to the votes, hon. members must take the course they thought fit ; that I could not make terms, and that I had given them the only answer in my power. (Hear, hear.) I came down to the house early to answer the question of which I had received notice from the hon. beet., but as a railway debate was going on I returned to Downing-street, , where I have been busily engaged ever since. Mr. DISRAELI said that the Irish members had not as Yet resolved the answer they required. (Hear, hear.) The government had announced their plan and should adhere to it, and not WI upon the house to debate a question, a most important feature in which was confessedly still under cabinet consideration. He thought it but sight that the house should he informed ea to what really was the government plane Mr. C. BULLEIt complair.ed that the noble lord the member for Lynn was most reckless in his imputations on the government. Mr. BAILLIE said that one of the Irish members had in- formed him that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had told I them his views were in concurrence with theirs, and that he would use his ioftuence with his colleagues to bring them round to a similar opinion. (Hear.) Mr. HERBERT, as one of the deputation which had waited ou the government, denied that any bargain bad been entered into. Mr. NEWDEGATB raid it appeared to him that some thing very like a hirdaio had been g,ing on, notwithstand ing the virtuous indignation of the hon. member for Lis. keerd. (IL ar, hear.) Mr. HOUSMAN did not think the explanation which had been given at all satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) Mr. FAGAN denied that any bargain had been proposed or acceded to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said thatthe point respecting which he had expressed his concurrence with tnc deputation was the wastage, and there was an hon. member behind him who could confirm Isis stats went. Mr. J. O'BRIEN confirmed the stir ement of the Chancel _ for of the Exchequer. Sir L O'BRIEN raid that the right hon. gentleman still left the house without information on the must important point. Tho CHANCELLOR of tho EXCHEQUER could givo no further answer. Mr. URQUHART was strongly of opinion that a virtual bargain had been going on between the Irish members and the right hon. Is ironet. Sir It. INOLIS did not think the question which they had Leen discussing for two hours wits so connected with the resolutions, as to r. quire the expenditure of so long a time. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BEItNAL differed entirely from his hon. friend, and considered that a nearer ata:milation of the duties on rum had a very close connexion with the question. (Hear, hear.) Mr. J. STUART said the question they lied to consider was, whether the remedy proposed by the government for the relief of the West Indies would effect it, object. flow could they go on to debate that question without knowing whether the government would adhere to their.proposition ? Mr. LABOUC HERE was sorry to be obliged to interfere in a discussion which had been already too long protracted. (blear, hear.) The government, in listening to the repre sentations of those who had objections to urge against a mea sure proposed by the government aliening the trade of the country, had hut followed all former precedent, and his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had only adopted the usual course in giving consideration to the state ments of those whose interests were affected, and in saying that he would lay the representations snide to him before the cabinet, and give the ponies the opinion of his colleagues as will as his own. II this was to be made a pretext for stopping a bill, they never could come to a decision on men. suns affecting the trade of the country. (!tear, hear.) The question of the duty on rum was en impotent part of the subject, but it was vain to say that they could not discuss and decide the question of the scale of the duties on sugar without hay.ng an absolute assurance, on the part of the go vernment, whither the duty on rum was to be 4d. or 6d. Mr. OUULBURN said the question before the house was in many respects different from a pure question of trade. The question was how they could afford relief to the suffer. ing West Indies, and before they came to a decision it was important to know whether the differential duty on rum was to be 4il. or Gd.—that is, whether an additional duty of 60 per cent. was to be allowed or not. (Hear, hear.) Without being informed on that point, he did not think the house could confidently pronounce an opinion on the whole plan. Sir 11. tVILLOCCiIIBY thought the government should say whether they would adhere to their original provaition. Lord J. RUSSELL 'aid that his right hon. friend (Mr. Labouchere) had given the proper reply to the statements which had been made. But as tne question stood at pre sent, the proposition of the government, as originally pro posed, must be considered as the question before the house. The motion for the adjournment was then withdrawn. Mr. fIOULBURN wished to know from the noble lord whether he had considered the suggestion of his hon. friend the member for Liverpool with regard to the introduction of a temporary bill for the continuance of the existing sugar duties tor a limited period. He thought it scarcely possible with every activity on the part of that house, that the bill could receive the royal agent before the sth of July, when s'te duties would he further lowered. Lord J. RUSSELL said that whets the house came to a decision on the motion of the hon. baronet (Sir J. Peking ton) lie would then consider the proposition of the hon. member for Liverpool. Mr. CARDWELL said that where a bill was a money bill the house could only take one step every day, and even if the house came to a division on Friday night—for it was not expected that the house would divide that night—the bill would afterwards have to go through seven other stages before it reached the Ilouse of Lords. If the noble lord waited fur the issue of the debate before the house before he took the first step in introducing a short hill of the nature he stated, he would not have it in his power to pan such a mete sure before the sth of July, without an unprecedented viola , tion of the standing orders of the house. (Hear,) No member of the government having replied, - • - Mr. GLADSTONE said be hoped the go vernment would give an answer, as the subject was important. (Loud cheers ) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the government could increase as well as diminish duties upon • vote of that house. The adjourned debate was then resumed by Mr. MOFFATT, who said that the effect of the measurs. proposed by the government would be to increase the cast of sugar to the people nt this country without bringing any corresponding relief to the West Indian planters. For the first year the cost to the country would be 250,000/. ; for the second, 500,0001. ; for the third. 750,0001. ; for the fourth and two subsequent years, 1,000,0001., making for the six years that the bill was to be in operation a total cost to the country of 4,500,0001. With respect to the reduction of the differential duty on rum, he thought it was a just and wise measure, and would prove a boon to the West India interest without doing permanent injury to the distilling interest in this country. Ile approved of the 500,0001. that was to be given to promote the immigration of labourers, but it would prove of little use unless the relief intended by it was promptly afforded. The increase of protection given by the proposition was more than was supposed, because the duty on the sth of July next would be 14s. for colonial sugar, and 18s. rid. for foreign. By the proposed duties it would be 13s. for colonial and '2os. for foreign, making an increase of protection from 33 to 64 per cent. That was a material increase, and one which was likely to have consi derable effect in diminishing the supply of foreign sugar to this country. Ile would not object to this if the measure was likely to be effectual in raising the condition of the sugar-producing colonies. But he did not think it would he productive of bent lit to them. In his opinion there was no justification for the measure as one of remedy for the West India distr, ss. All the witnesses who were examined before the committee concurred in stat ing that the great difficulty the planters had to contend with was the want of labour. It was the duty of the govern. ment to supply labour to the colonies, at any cost, parti cularly as it was the government that disabled them from having a sufficient supply. He thought that the colonists allowed themselves to be too much frightened by the cheap ness of slave labour. Statements had been made that sugar could be produced in Cuba at rit. 6d. a cwt. But the truth was, that the cost of producing yellow sugar there was from 13s. to 16s. The latest accounts from Brasil showed that the cost of yellow sugar there ranged frost 14s. Id. to 18s. 8d , and that the planters lost money at thews prices; for the very last mail brought the intelligence of the failure of one of the principal manten and slave dealers there. (Hear, hear.) Great complaints had been made with respect to the classification of sugars, which had proved ruinous to some of those engaged in the East India sugar trade, and the doing away with that classification would prove beneficial. Great complaints were also made of the cost of the respective governments of the Mauritius and the West India colonies. In 1832 the cost of the government in Demerara was only 56,0001. ; but, in 1847, it was 226,0001. (Hear, hear.) He was sorry that the government had given no indication of an intention to re duce the cost of government. He was also sorry that they did not propose to carry on some large improvements which had been suggested. For the reasons he had stated he could not support the proposition of the government. (Hear, hear.) 13. tore he sat down he thought it right to bear his testimony to the untiring exertions and the great zeal and activity dis played by . the noble lord who conducted the committee. He only wished that the West India planters would exhibit a little of the same zeal and activity. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GLADSTONE said that though he should feel it his duty, in the course of the remarks he was about to make, to express his dissent in important particulars from the plan of tl e government, and though he felt unable to vote for their proposition, yet he hoped in so doing that there was nothing inconsistent with the admission he must frankly make, not only that he believed the government were actuated by a sincere desire to deal justly with various interests, but that they had to consider and treat a question of extraordinary difficulty. (Hear, hear.) Few questions could come before parliament involving such a variety of complex considera tions, or one with regard to which the utmost patience, the utmost care, and the utmost ability might find such immense difficulties in producing anything like a satisfactory solution. He felt himself under considerable difficulty, in consequesee of the forme of the house. His general objection to the government scheme was that as a measure of relief it tees utterly insufficient, whilst as a measure of finance it wee open to objections utterly insurmountable. But to them views he could not, secorcheg to the forms, give adequate expression. lie could not vote a negative to the Speaker leaving the chair, because that would convey disinclination to reconsider a very difficult question ; nor could he vote for the resolutions, beanie that would convey opinions he did not entertain. But these difficulties did not prevent his fully explaining his views upon the question. Considering it as it affected the West India colonies, he was bound to say that he entirely adhered to the principles on which he bad always acted on that question. He could not found his argument on the mere consideration of protection. Hs thought they were working out a great so cial problem in our West India colonies. It was impossible to consider this question without considering the position of 90 per cent. at least of the population of the islands. But he held also that whites in the West Indies had a claim of the most distinct manta me the humanity, equity, and jus tice of the house. (Hear, hear.) He thought they had a right to ask for public money as sufferers at the hands of the legislature. bathe cameo( the apprenticeship we had abolished a system which was as much a part of the compensation to the West India planters as the twenty millions of money voted to them. Even in Jamaica no option could be said to have been left to the planters at to whether they should or should not abolish the apprenticeship two years before the statu ary period for its abolition. Then, as to immigration, the West Indians now find the people of England willing to vote money for that purpose. But the Wept Indians juAly observed that they had been agitating this question for 12 years, and that every restraint and restriction had been in terposed. We at first prohibited wholly the removal of ' coolies from the East Indies. Then we fixed the period for which contracts might be made with them at no more than one year. The noble lord, to his honour, tried hard to restrain that sort of philanthropic movement, but ho was beaten by the opposition of members who were now the ministers for colonial affairs. (Hear.) The West Indies now said you offer us whit we asked to, late: we have been exhausted by the efforts of the intermediate period. There could be no doubt that this was true ; and on these grounds, therefore, the West Indies had, in his opinion, a g iod claim upon the state. Ile now came to consider the mod, in which her 111.ijesty's government proposed to meet and satisfy this claim. As he laid before, he did not think the amount of relief by any means adequate to the necessity. Their object, he thought, ought to be, to induce the people of this country to civo a fair and full trial to the sys tem of free labour es carried out in our colonies. Ile did not think it was well to adopt that principle with out going to the full length that justice and policy per mitted. Then came the question as to the frm in which relief should be given. Some members thought it was desirable that we should retrace our steps with regard to the question of protection. He felt, however, that there would be great difficulty and delicacy in imposing again a very high protective duty. He could not but think that a great reaction 'with regard to protective duty would dimi nida very much the care and the caution with which estates were worked and labour employed in the West Indies. He was not of opinion that it would be wise to take a backward course with regard to the scale. But, at the same time, he should prefer to the government plan a simple suspension of the existing a, ale of duties. He thought it by no means dejirable that we should have minute subdivisions and alienations of descending scales. The proposition we wished to make was not she sort of proposition given by the man who wished to teach his house to lire upon a bean a-day. Our proposition should rather be that of encouraging the importation of labour and machinery. (Hear, hear.) lie must also say that he thought the reduction of the duty upon colonial sugar from 14s. to 131. was most impolitic as a question of finance. In consequence of that minute distinc tion the noble lord, it was said, was about to prohibit once again the use of sugar in breweries and distilleries. This added very greatly to the impolicy of the measure. Then, again, he was not by any means satisfied with the declaration of the noble lord respecting vagrancy and squatting in the colonies. The noble lord said they would be prepared to receive sug gestions on those points. It was rather the duty of the Under Secretary for the Colonies to propose such measures than to sit in his office, as the noble lord had pictured him, in order to receive suggestions." (Hear. hear.) Then as to the loan. He could not help regretting that an exclu sive direction had been given to the employment of the loan. The mind of the West Indies was quite sufficiently directed lo the subject of immigration relatively with other questions ; and be thought the money might be as usefully applied in improvements as in immigration. He then came to a very important part of the subject, upon which he must say that he did wish Borne intention had been intimated on the part of the government to give the colonial legisla ture a greater discretion with regard to their expenditure. In Britiab Guiana, he believed, it was absolutely declared that one third the revenue was swallowed up in the ex pense, of government. The expenses of colonies in which there were no local governments were con siderably less than in those which had such an established authority. The sacriti'e we were going to make, whilst it would not save a fraction to the colonial legislatures, would, on the other hand, add, beyond all mea sure, to the burdens of this c ninny. Would there be any increase of consumption sufficient to compensate fur this by raising the revenue in Great Britain? Be believed not. He had observed that whenever such reductions of duty were made a very small increase of consumption followed. Next yesr they would lose 240,0001., unless consumption increased ; that was the immediate sacrifice. They were going to exclude sugar from the breweries, It was mid 12,000 tons were consumed in these establishments. That would involve a loss of 150,0001. more. Then, in future years this loss might be expected to he still greater. (Hear, hear.) And under what circumstances was this great sacri fice proposed 1 If they looked at the finances of the country everything was deficiency. Their financial state was most serious, and it was growing more and more so every day. They would not be doing their duty to the country without looking that part of the question in the face before the ex piration of the session. They must provide relief for the colonies, but they must previously see how that relief was financially to be afforded. lie knew how unpopular a pro lomat of relief to a class interest was ; but when members took him to task, as they probably would do, for advisin7 it, let them meet the claim upon the ground of justice, upon which alone he rested it. Let it not be said that when we set the great example of emanci pating our colonies, we took all the honour to ourselves and left all the cost and responsibility to the West Indians. Mr. J. WILSON said he had listened to the speech of the right hon. gentleman with no little interest, and much surprise. Nothing could be more curious than to reconcile, if it were possible, his objections to the measure with the vete he proposed to give. He should be very glad if be had to meet no greater objections to the plan of the government than the objections of the right hon. gentleman. What single reason had he a‘signed for voting for that 10s. duty which was the object of the amendment? The right hon. gentleman thought much of what were called \Vest Indian grievances; but what grievance had the West Indian complained of a few year' since that had not been wholly or partially removed? The prohibition of purchasing except in British markets was removed—the rum duties had been reduced—the juice of the cane was admitted— and the West Indians were permitted to refine in their own islands. But it was complained that immigration was checked. Why, hon. gentlemen would not recollect the facts. As far back as 1840 facilities were given for immigra- I lion, and almost every year those facilities were increased. There were really no grievances, therefore, which had not been removed, or which were not in course of removal. But at the same time it was thought that the distress, from what ever cause arising, was very severe in the West Indies. Measures of relief were to be applied to it, and the problem they bad to solve was in which way they could apply them most irefully to the colonists and least detrimentally to the mother country. In the course of the debate reference had been made to the state of our West India colonists, and an alarming picture was drawn of their condition because the average of the sugar produced in the two years 1846.7, in Jamaica, was 225. lid. per cwt. But the year 1846 was a year of great drought, and a year, consequently, when the crop was much less than the average. He knew cases of estates in Jamaica where sugar was made at 4s. 6d. per cwt., Bs. a cwt., 9s. a cwt., and 10i. a cwt.; and he believed in not over favourable years the coat of production had been not above an average of 16s. a cwt. In 1846, however, there were estates where the sugar cost more than 31. per cwt.. and he verily believed that the drought of that year had more to do than almost any cause with the depression in the W, et Indies at the present time. Now, looking at Demerara and Essequibo, he held a return in his hand showing the num bers of estates told in consequence of bankruptcies, and it was curious that during the last two years the number of such aides was much less than during any of the six preceding. This was a fact of some importance. Let him mention another cause for the depression in the trade. In conse quence of the admission of sugar to breweries and distilleries large imports had been made of foreign sugar last year, and the consequence was, • very considerable reduction in price. We imported in the first four months of last year 79.000 boxes of sugar from Cuba, whilst in the same peeled of this year we only imported 8,000 boxes, showing that last year the foreign trade was unduly stimulated. (Hear, hear.) From 1831 to 1841 the state of the sugar trade in the West Indies was very depressed ; but from 1841 to the press at time their produce had been annually on the increase. He believed there was indubitable proof of the progressive improvement of the West Indies. (Laughter.) Gentle men might laugh, but he believed such to be the fact. The re-establishment of a system of protection would be most injurious to the colonies. Had not there been a strug gle going on in them for effecting a reduction of wages, and were not hon. gentlemen aware of the partial success that had attended thou efforts? In the colonies of Barbadoea, Antigua, and Guiana—(no)—the reductions in wages amounted to from 25 to 50 per cent., and would it be wise in the face of these efforts to reduce the cost of cultivation to re-establish protective duties, and thus to afford to the negro labourers a pretext for insisting upon their former high rates of wages ? Nothing could be more prejudicial to the \Vest Indies than to follow such a course. The great difficulty, as he apprehended, in dealing with the colonies was in stimu lating consumption, so as to keen pace with their constantly increasing amount of production. The consumption of lunar within the last three years had increased from 207,000 tons to 290,000 tons, and this was one of the direct and palpable consequences of the reduction of the duty in 1845 and 1846. Suppose, instead of reducing the duty it had been increased, and the production of sugar had gone on at the same rate as it had done. What would have become of the 70,0001. surplus tons of West India sugar thus thrown upon the English market ? Could they have been sent into the foreign European market to com pete with Cuba and Brazilian sugars ? Then again, let him point out to the house the fact that there were vast tracts of virgin soil in Trinidad and the West India islands which had never been cultivated, and which were capable of producing any quantity of Boger. In Trinidad one-seventh only of the land was cultivated as yet ; whereas, the sugar lands in Cuba and Brazil were worn-out soil, and not able to compete with the rich alluvial soil of the West Indies. The same was true of the land in the Bast Indies. The possibility a restoring protection under these facts was out of the question ,• and if, by encouraging a system of emigration, additional labour was thrown into the West Indies a freak stimulus was given to production, what, he might ask, would be the condition of the planters generally, if with an increased production of one half of the present amount, there were to be no home consumption equal to the additional quantity thus thrown upon the market ? How, therefore, could the planters expect that the home consumption would keep pace with the production unless at price. which placed auger within the reach of the mass of the people ? and bow could those prices be kept within reasonable limits if increased protection was to be granted on those sugars which were the principal article of consumption in the home market;? There was not • man who had sat on the Weat India committee, and who took a candid view of the wholt ques tion, but what was persuaded that, take what measures they would for giving protection, the West and East India colo nies would annually produce more sugar than the consump tion of the kingdom could keep with. Therefore, he said that there was no possible safety for the British planters but in throwing them open to their rivals in sugar-growing, and thus stimulating their powers of production to the at- meet. Entertaining these views, he was not able to ~ port the motion of the hon. bait. the member for Dreitw a X for the first effect which his proposition would produc e , would be to raise the price of sugar, and th us t o diminish the consumption of . that article. Moreover th e preposition, if adopted, would injure the reveuue, either by diminshine alt ditty received on West India sugars, or else by street], ening the quantity consumed. And on .ine or other of thes e grounds he, as a member of the West India committee, felt it his duty to reject the motion. lie would now protest t o Fay • few words on the proposition of the government, and to endeavour to show how far it was more advantageous than that of the protectionist ie rty. The first object t o x i c) , government sought to attain was to give such n o* . ragement to the growth of sugar in the BritiA pal. stations as would promote a superabundant supply for home consumption. The mode of best e ff ecting this important object was, in the epin'on of the goy, meant, by means of a gradually decreasing duty, and thereby gr a , dually stimulating consumption. Looking at the increase, in this respect, that had resulted from the reduction of tits duty in 184.5 and 1846, the government was, in his opinion, acting wisely in enabling the consumer to look distinctly fr o '. ward to the day when all protection ceased in foto. The right hon. gentleman the member for Oxfotd Unireraity ese stated that he shoull have preferred suspending the due s , for six years from the present time to making a perineum and gradual reduction in them. But 1:e knew, as all wh o heard him did, that the price of sugar was regulat e d by the amount of the foreign duty, and not b y te e colonial duty. The suspension or the duty for Rix rears would cause the consumpion of that necessary to remain stationary and stagn-nt fur that space of taw uud thus there would be no means whatever left the govern, ment of providing for the consumption of the stead i l y proceeding annual inertue in the production of free, labour colonies in the British dominions. Besides, there was another objection to the right honourable gentleman's plan, which was, that et the end of the six years the sudden reduction of the duty Irma paralyse the sugar market, and throw the whole trade into confusion. The proposition of the government was there, fore far preferable to that of the right hon. gentleman. Another of his obj..ctions to the government scheme was, that according to his view of the Chancel, lox's statement tho government was about to ex. elude sugars from being consumed in breweries and distilleries as soon as tt.e plan proposed should cone into operation. He was glad to correct this inisapprehea. *ion on the part of the right hon. gentleman, and to inform him that the Chancellor of the Exchequer merely proposed to shut sugar out from breweries es soon es the ditty fell to that degree at which a loss would be incurred by its lapel. ceding lush, and thus reducing the receipts of the revenue from that source. But this would not bees long as tie duty was at or above 12s. ; therefore three yam yet remained before sugar would he thrown out of up m breweries. In distilleries it wculd continue to la used. With respect to the duties on colonial rem, the planters had already been relieved to the amount of 50,17004 by the recent reduction, and taking into account me foram reduction of sd. per gallon, the whole amount thus presented to the West Indians was no less a sum than 110,0001. Tine a , :ded to the whole amounts of former reductions, would swell the gratuities presented to the planters to between 300,0001. and 400,0001., taking the whole export of rum from all the colonies into the account. He hi felt great surprise when he heard the hon. baronet emelt. make such statements as he had done with respect to dia cost of producing sugar in Cuba, Bahia, and Porto Rico, be. cause the returns from consular authorities in otlvryila prinxd in the report of the We't India committee, showed that the figures of the hon. baronet were not correct. Ths consul general for Havana, Mr. Crawnird, stater that the cost of producing sugar there, including export duties, was 17s. Gd. per cwt., and this without freight and charg. a, or the cost of replacing negroes. In Bahia, Mr, Consul Porter states the cast of production to be 17_ ,s. 6d with the same limitations ; and at Porto Rico Mr. Cooed Lindegren gives the cost of production as 12s. 6d. pee cwt., without adding anything for replacing slaves, interest of capital and other charges, The ave. rage cost of producing sugars in thew three slave colonies, therefore, instead of being G.. 100., as stated by the hon. baronet, was in reality 15s. 10d., and if estimated without adding the export duties, which might at any time be repealed, the minimum coat of production in the three slave colonies was 14,. 81. per cwt, and that was to be looked at as extending over all the three qualities of sugar produced in those colonies. Ile regretted that he had so inadequately espresseal his opi nions. There were many topics which he had unavoidably emitted, but at that late hour he could not think of lours detaining the house. (Hear, hear.) lie should oily say (unlit r that he felt firmly convinced that there could he no more effectual way of encouraging slavery than to restore the protection of colonial sugar. On the motion of Mr. W. MILES the debate was ad. journod to to-morrew(this day). BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. WAWR,Tylcciriari risen se;e7altrEnts while Mr. Wilson was addressing the house, and who appeared meek excited, complained, amid loud cries of "question," thai one of the hon. members for Berwick had Just addressed the 11101 t offensive language to him, and had, in fact, threatened to strike him within the walls of the how. (Laughter, and cries of " Question.") Be thought it hit duty to call the attention of the house to the matter. Ho was quite ready to meet any complaint of the hon. member out of the house, but in the house he thought himself ad. tied to the protection of the chair. No notice being taken of the hon. member's observation he immediately left the house. AMENDMENT OF THE POOR LAW. Mr. C. BULLER moved for leave to bring in the fol. lowing bills:—A bill to alter the provisions relating to the charges for the relief of the poor in unions, and the mode of payment thereof, and to provide for the relief of the poor in extra-parochial places; a bill to make provisions for the pay ment of parish debts, the audit of parochial and union ass counts, and the allowance of certain charges therein ; a to amend the law for the formation of districts for the edu cation of infant poor ; and a bill to authorise the payment of superannuation allowances to officers engaged in the ad.- ministration of the laws for the relief of the poor. lie promised the house that if permitted to bring in the bills they should have ample time to consider them before he asked for another stage. After a few words from Mr. HENLEY leave was given. On the motion of Mr. M'GREOOIt leave won given to bring in a bill to amend enact of the 11th and 12th yearati King William 111. for the more effectual suppression of pi ' racy and for affording additional protection to merchant Seamen. On the motion of Sir W. SOMERVILLE leave was given to bring in a bill to amend the acts relating to the constabn luy force in Ireland. The house adjourned at half past 1 o'clock. ELECTION COMMIITEES.-YESTERDAY. DUBLlN.—Scrutiny continued ; two votes taken from Bitting members' majority for non-payment of poore rate. SLlGo.—Witnesses examined to prove agency as re garded the bribery, but the committee decided that agency had not been proved. Evidence as to treating was then pro ceeded with. the Oppreoo. MAILS. The mails for British NorthimeAca. and the united State, will be made up en the evening of the 23rd June. The overland closed mails, via Marseilles, to the Molitenaneas. Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, Hong-Kong, Sc., will be made up on the evening of the 24th June. The mails for Vigo, Oporto, Madeira, Cadiz, and Gibraltar will be made up on them of th 27 th June. , The mails for New South ales, Van theman's Land, and New ' Zealand will be made up on the evening of the 30th June. The mails for the West Coast of Africa and Madeira will be made up on the evening of the 30th June. The Went India Mails, excluding Bermuda, NONSIN Harsn Honduras, New Orleana, Vera Cruz, Tampico, and Porto Rice, and I including thou. for Madeira, Jacmel, Carthagena, Santa Martha. Chagree, Panama, Writ Coast of South America, and St. Juan-oe. Nicaragua, will be made up on the evening of the la July. The mails for the Brazils, the River Plate, Monte Video, Panne. bum, Bahia, Madeira, and Bums Ayres, will be made up on the evening of the 4th July. The overland mails for Gibraltar, Malta, Greece, the lonian hands. Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, Hong-Kong, and China, via Southall?' ton, will be made np on the morning or the 20th July. NOTICE TO ADVERTISERS. The number of STAMPS issued by the authorities olds Stamp-office, during 1847, to the DAILY NEWS was 3.447,009 This, we believe, is within agar per cent. of the nambla issued to the Morning Herald, Morning Chronicle, sal Morning Post, ALL POT ICKIETHEIL In addition to the above, issued to the DAILY NEWS, Morning Paper, there were issued for the Evenmo Edda% THE EXPRESS 778,714 Which was more, we believe, than were issued either 10 the Globe or Standard, Evening Papers. 111178 WATER AT LONDON 11104311. TA. DAt—Nomiss.l3 wia.pset ei ARwres. 3.4 Ada WI 6. SS. .41441126, 4W. pee 7; AR. ..MU wW.PO I 7. LONDO! FRIDAY, JUNE 23. THE REFORM DEDATE. In the HOUSE Or COMMONS, last night, Mr. Coa -1 DEN, in the absence of Mr. HUME, postponed the ad. journed debate on parliamentary reform until this lay week, the government having consented to give up that day to the hon. member for Montrose. TEE House of Commons is doing yeoman's service in the cause of reform, by embracing every opportu nity to illustrate its own unfitness for the conduct of senors business, while it remains constituted as at present. Scenes like that presented last night in the skirmish preliminary to the West India debate, by which so much time was uselessly and discreditably wasted, are rapidly bringing the intelligent portion of the public to regard their virtual representatives with a sentiment closely bordering on contempt. Sir Lucius O'BRIEN must, we think, have been convinced by the explanation of the CHANCELLOR or THE Exrusut the Irish members of their question member for Clare, after the cool retie admit that he was ever Sir LI:CIUs O'♦' his friends who arc sioned by railing v. dishonest. That tl. Lord G. BENTINCK Russett's somew: went would not 1. Irish members. bat due to the public, between the prune , DISRAELI and Mr. party really shares. the sake of prolcr affected to do so, tr.; Passing from it 'dales to the merit that the policy of preface or ex plena . on rum from ltd. t. No farther back t 1 fully discussed in 1 earnest canvass an. spective cases both distillers. So s.ro lature that the diri. fair and equitable Lords oLly 48 iner only 69, could be ~ but for referring mittee. To call ape last year deliberau If reasonable con dictated the vote, our legislators re. believed to hare that they are less than they were ty the whole atnir le culated to inspire of West India lid the West Indians somethirg for the its rejection. tr has been IA open his volume 4 strict and emus estimates resembl , where yon the public money they are not—at One chapter " superannuation ties for charitalir these we find en allowances formal The Civil List is yet we find lie accounts Some time . for the travell , Queen of the Bt —for the hospit wards her own Majesty's charit e list for 2,0:12i., tons persons in bedesmen," the charged to the ra, laneous allowanr list, is also an CIIARLES 11. ICI 1 CLAROES, in fee, This same civil country. Parlian the crown in lieu was promised, v public income. effected. The leave to cut and Park, is claimed all the same as " gible account is royal forests, or t expenditure. NVe Forests can teal among the chi for one year thousand pouch does not IF: for its emu, not purchases-, the Crown Iv ( pays the civil I.i the Woods an I countr7. Sarno civil het is too not large eno be found spin, Woods and F of the Court ; mates items r if defrayed . who think the it too small, we Bat since sue, it not be advis tbl sion ? If it c n augmented, in it unworthily tr( their elandesti the alienated I gling part of Miscellaneous Bat whethe dazed, why co revenue with family ? Lord . (much larger 11 BOROUGH ant. House of Comm services done 'o BOROUGH. 11, v services, and were the Even with to believe , the country his gains in t those days, 5 , him. But wl.i or any Sir Tri, nation, that to all posterity ants ? The the govern' , it is a t them upon p borough case analogy of v masters, who faithful serv: liberal house unity to the however des &ions grant poverty. GRAFTON, CIARGES, lq, why or timpted frout trenchmeut, • some years by statute) ExcIIEUI member.. Luestion it Clare. ~00l refit • he was :CI U 8 . who ar. ailing i. t That tl ENTINCh somew d not oers. bat ) public, • to panic . and Mr. y sharee f prolcr • do so, ti from ii • he merit oliey of . explana . )ni tld. b • bsek tt aced in 1 nvass an i saes both a So s.ro t the dirt. itable r r 48 men ould be , • eferring t call npcn leliberat' • able con he vote, .t. store re, It to have to are less ri were t": 1 attair lo ik inspire I s ndia lteiie• Indians b for them on. been sa.l volumes td amus resemble in will, /I • st c money is not—at • bapter rf lunation :heritable e find en es formerl it List is find C.: Innis littl ime ago travellig f the Btlgi hospitals. ler OWL 'l3 charit r o sons in S n," the r , to the I , ati• allowar.ces also an " s 11. to the a, in fee, an lame civil Parliam ruin lieu o milted, we icome. The The mon cut and ca. claimed as ame as if count is et rests, in th: ture. We can ti.l the chi. r ! year onl d pounds not teak. nMUS•111• irchaser... own sc.iti . Le Cll7ll 1.91, oods an I r. Soma • st is too ge eno cg ,nd approp and Fa ..es Court ; items mi st ayed from kink the small, tve 1/C0 elle% be advis tbl If it c. rated, in i • thily U.( it• landesti el enated I •:r part of t ligneous F whethe t , why co ae with h. r ? Lord .1 0 1 larger it :011 ant. O of Comm es done 'o awl. Ih •• as, and it the with re ; ieve tha ountry c. a sins in t ie days, e - f. But WI at y Sir Tr r. o, that t to osterity f. ' The gorerni.A. s a upon p iv ugh case .h )gy of v n err, whc lul sere an al house .if to the ever des. Z'T s grant 1, ..rty. A'n ,PTON, inn. RGES, 81 why ore Ited front ,chment, • .e years • statute) VS find i. coal of a long b e. :follow' I:. considc a nmons, 1. t the ;oral rest. ,t 7t of the rty as sort lies under its so de. e passage Fire learn th Baltimore .• United oticable to I not be transport to en comp, ails on the • e packet bri t t., or about ' ow the pees , • ore than IS , . ty in the • ight and 21 t. of sugar • Ws find journal of has long b the :follow , the consider Commons, that the as natural rests part of the party 11,8 sot Indies undo quite so de The passage We learn th to Baltimore the United practicable to may not be of transport when coin entails on tt fine packet b' ewt., or about Now the pre , more than 1 : duty in the freight and Cwt. of sugar lOW ••••1M . ..