The Express. — London, England, 1847-02-24 00:00:00

• ' 1 2 IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. MOUSE OF LORDS.—TUESDAY, FEB. 23. The LORD CLIANCRLL ÜBOR too BU hi k s seat at five o'clock. PLIC SINESS. PSITIIONS.-117 the Date of tine rases, several petitions from leaemtershire siralnit the Law of Settlement. TIHRU B.EAD.NIi. Destitute Persons (Irehuid) BBL ROYAL ASSES .— The royal aim= woi 'circa by cocaminn, the COnnolaioners being the lord Chancellor, and the Earls of Mint. and Mattes :Airy, to the following bill.:—Back Whoa, aw., Impartation ; Sugar in Breweries; dagar to Distilleries ; Pensioners Rilli. DESTITUTE PERSONS (IRELAND) DILL AD JOURNED DEBATE. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the third reading of this bill. Lord BROUGHAM repeated his objections to the mea sure, and entered his protest egainst it. He thought that wl,at they were now uoing would be much wane than no thing ; it would teach the Irish to place their dependence on government aid, and that was a lesson which they would not easily forget. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY regretted that a noble lord of such high authority should bo found to object to the bill, at a period when ohmic. every individual in this country was es ineing his sympathy for Irish diitrtss. The noble and learned lord accused Irish landlords of living abroad. Per haps they were too apt to follow the example of noble lords who lived in France. (Laughter.) He could not but deprecate the recent tensional of what was called the Inds party. He could not perceive any use in the (h.-mis sion of measures before they were brought into parliament. One tend. ney of this was, to lead the people of Ireland to suppose that the British It gielature were indifferent to their wants. The union between the lea hrs of Conciliation-hall and tunny noble peers, for whom he Lad great tespect, was a very extraordinary none; and he thought it muld nut be attended with any beneficial result. lie regretted that the noble lord at the head of the government bad not, when he assumed Mike, renewed the Irish Arms 8.11. lie thought that the present poor-law was the salvation of the country, and he was disposed to advocate an extension of it. Lord BROL HAM said he had cost no imputations cm the people of Ireland. lie did not abject to charitable aid being afforded to them, but he was opposed to their getting millions by a public measure. Ile would make the same objection if the measure was intended for the English, or Scotch. With regard to the charge of his being an absentee, he was only absent fur two or three months, when parlia ment was not sitting, and there were no duties to be per formed in the country. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that he spent two or three months of the year in Ireland. Lord BROUGHAM.—Tout the difference between him self and the noble marquis was, that he was an absentee two or three months of every year, and the noble marquis was an absentee all but two or three menthe. (Laughter.) The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he understsod the noble and teethed lord attacked the Irish proprietors when he (the Marquis of Londonderry) was absent nom the house. lie accused them of extravagance, of keeping hones, equipages and wine.. (Laughter.) He did nut object to the noble and learned lord's amusements. Its did not object to his boar bunts in France, or whatever he pleased. (Laughter.) But ho had no right to attack Irish proprietors and run them down. (Laughter.) Lord BROUGHAM said he had never run down Irish proprietors any more than he had run down a boar. (Much laughter.) He never engaged in a boar hunt in any part of the continent. (Ineremed laughter.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that be would in troduce words into the bill which would meet the objection trAtyesterday by the noble earl opposite (the Earl of borough). There were also several verbal amendments which he wished to introduce. The Marquis of WESTMEATH said, that the Irish party, as they were called, met for the purpose of consulting what was best to be done in the present emergency of the country. It was but natural for them to do ea. Ho regretted that some provision was not made for more effectually recovering the rates. Lord BEAUMONT rose for the purpose of correcting a misstatement which appeared in the letter of Mr. Otway, the assistant poor-law commissioner, dated Csstlebar, the 17th of January. In that letter it was stated that Lord Kilmaine had not paid a great ?ortion of his rates. He (Lord B.) had bad communications with his noble relit. live (Lord Kilmaine) and his *amnion the subject, and they declared that the statement of Mr. Otway was totally incor rect, that all Lord Kilmaine's rates were paid immediately upon application, and that none were due from him at that time. Ile thought that some means should be taken for more effectually recovering the mtes,because under the present system the wilhng ratepayer might be called en to pay ten times over,whilst the unwilling one escaped without paymg at all. The evil in Ireland hail arisen more from the want of a prOper method of distributing the food than from a want of hod itself. He might also observe that in England there were only three labourers to every 100 acres cf land, whilst in Ireland there were eight labourers to the same quantity of land—a greater number than could obtain employment at fair wages, and the only remedy for such an evil would be an extensive system of emigration. (Hear, hear.) He would further suggest that in all agreements and leases be• tween landlords and tenants, the four course syetem should be enforced, with a view to the proper cultivation of the land. (Hear, hear.) The bill was then read a third time and passed. Their lordships adjourned at 7 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY, FRB _ 23. The SPRAYER took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. SECOND READINGS-Aberdeen Harbour Improvement; Yee& waterworks; Rochdale Waterworks; Ryde Improvement; South Yorkshire, Dencsider, and Goole Railway (Pentanes% &c., an I Pur chase of Sheffield, Rotherham, Barnsley, Wakefiv; I, Huddersfield, and Goole Railway, Dun Naviention. owl Dearer. and Dom Canal) ; Bits. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETMONB.-By Sir F. Imirrit, from Scarborough, against alter. Won of Novialtioe fawn. Napo MACNAMARA, two petitions Item' Clare, for immediate relief measures. Mr. T. Desein n., from work. Mg mes of Warrington, complaining of the confliement of certain workweek In the pal of that town ; from public meeting held at the Crown and Anchor Tavern. fur the repeal of the rate-paying clauses of the Reform Act. Mr. W. Perms ' from Warrington, in favour of a Ten Hours, Bill ; from Bridpott, against the light dues . from • in the county of Devon, against the law of settlement. Mr. 9. CRAWPORIP, iron certain persons.' complaining of Ca pt ain Wynne, statements. Mr. B. Ereore, from Mr.Langilale, a }echo In Ceylon, complaining of dismissal on Wee charges, and for relief. Mr. Fours, from landowners, b vikers, and others in Scotland, against the Distil lation from Suitor Bill. Lord ions Messes, from Forfar, to same effect FIRST READINGS.-Rellgions Requseta, Juvenile Offenders bills. RETURNS ORDERED.-0a the maim of Mr. W. Berm O'Barny, &return of the number of persons who have died of starvation In Ire. land during each week since the let November, 1846, as arertained by the verdicts of ometters inquests; of the number of persons who have died in each perish in Ireland during each month for the same perissl, speefying the number who have died from liberation or dim. ease consequent uninsualci s e= food; such return to he continued t montliiy dump resent NOTICES OF t i ke onoNA-Law or fiernannery Cornarres-Mr. Basso postponed his motion MI this subject until Toceday, the and of March. IMPORTATION or SALT INTO I.LAND.--Col. Coven T, NI.- Marrow this day), to more for repent relative to the Importationof soft into Tumor Eeotrr.-Mr. S. Caewroau, on Thursday next, to move foe leave to bring ins bill to secure the rights dome- Wag mama in Ireland. ABOLMON or Pussonres-roviluvri.-Mr. ZWART, TORPOR', the 9th of March, to move for leave to bring In a bill for the abolition of the punishment of death. Taxevios.-Mr. Swam, on a future day, to move for • 'elect eommittec to inquire Into the taped _iency or mitetltuting direct for Indirect LRIRRICIL 11AILWAIT.-Lord G. BENTINCS to MOT., to-morrow (this day), for a return showing the mom of money expended by several railway com panies precious to 1041, and also the. sums spent to the same cows :des in the triennial periods 1541, 1811, sad 1547. Oaxaca.-lard J. Iffesserts postponed his motion an the subject of Greece until Toes day, the 9th of March. REGENT'S CANAL RAILWAY BILL. Mr. ALDAN( seemed that the order of the day for the second reading of this bill be read, in order that its con sideration might be postponed. Before the question was put, Mr. WARBURTON said, he thought the house ought to be informed what were the intentions of her Msjesty's ministers, respecting this bill. They had refused to await to it " in its present form," but this was a very ambiguous expression of dissent. If the bill interfered with the privacy of the Regent's Park in any way whatever, the crown was bound by good faith to oppose it. Year after year,' the lessees of the crown in that locality were subjected to all the trouble, annoyance and expense of resisting this en oroaclunent on the privacy the crown had guaranteed to them under their original leases, and it behoved the crown at once to come forward and put a stop to the grievance. Viscount MORPETII said that if it were necessary to take a division of the house upon the bill in its present shape, he should certainly feel no difficulty in exprainng a opinion aeon it. It had, however, been in • to flit ' Ant the parties projecting the railway were desirous of reconsidering their plan, in order to modify their bill a al to meet the views of its opponents ; and as a delay had been granted • few weeks since at the instance of those opponents, he thought it only fair that the measure should now be de layed at the request of its promotes. Of course, it was only in his power to deal with the measure in the shape in which it was submitted to him. In its present shape , he was cer tainly prepared to give a very positive opinion on it. Sir B. HALL hail understood that it was tho intention of the government to express that night their opinion upon this measure, and he certainly had felt most anxious to know what were their intentions. As far as the public knew at present, it was designed to run a railway through the Regent's-park, end representing as he did the tenants of the crown, who had investedlerge sums in the improvements of that locality, he did trust that the government would no longer hesitate in stepping forward for their protection. Sir R. INGLIS thought the faith of the crown was dis tinctly pledged to those who had taken leases in the R.went's-park that their piracy should not be violated, and he felt that online her Majesty's government were pre pared to say that whatever alteration was made, the faith of the government should be kept, the house ought to reject this measure without hesitation. (Hear, hear.) He rerd ere h 6 the question not as one affecting the proprietors of reit eht d S .4. villas, but as a question affecting the honour and good faith , Vi : of the crown. Mr. WILLIAMS also expressed a with that government ... o' o.•' t J a c ,Nr , 4e, , 4). should explain their intentions, and c yr. • 01. Mr. HUME mid that when they were expending from ~:tk ~,Ys .. .,,p two to three hundred thousand pounds on the parks of the O e 'te .... - r" metropolis, it did appear to him extraordinary that they c p." , cey - , should permit this encroachment upon one of inch great .s ( lO , 0 . 1 , ,,,, ° . gmennodstios and on which they had spent such enormous s/ ...op: ~.. -es.4e , sane etnooey. He hoped , the bill would be rejected at .. ":..6 7- ,A s e _O. ern Ni direct and odious interference with the convenience All"" 'O. -t - N" and aesorazoodattou of the public. 4' sP N 0 es' • "N`t , oN se° . jai, Thome MOEPETE said he bail no wish whatever to : eo , c. >l. 31 , ,ipt! , .„0-• ~,4 , ~, Hardee his orgegnouts upon this subject. As the bill at ok_..e• ,s7 - Q t '-- premed steed be certainly could not advise the crown to ites - iAI - x dO palm& to it. (Rear, hear.) But he understood the pro letets t, I° Wall wises to amend their 'Aherne in such a way sets it° %, ° mould be anoptable to the lessees , sad he thought the re. S° .00 1 ~...G. 4'o in Oa deny ow that ground was reasonable, end ought to 6" "" s. • N t . s c. bs›'lb it.Xi° alp v o.. 6 416 11 7gOtr: d Rf e t t G e ttrg th h e t ha tt s in o te f t r h ei e te no a ble f th y a mcoun Claßa t, and O, ‘ , A 11 c. , 0 t.. 40/ 0 . t or & 4 1. -°''-^'' -,* lir c \.. i 7i.- "..'. 0, ~ ~\ urged that this was a reasonable request which ought to be granted. The consideration of the second reading of the bill was then postponed until that day fortnight. TILE PRIVATE BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Mr. HUME then rose to move the appointment of a select committee, " to continue the inquiry into the private busi ness of the house, the expenses attending the obtaining of all private bills, including all the expenses of the opponents, as well es the promoters of bills, and the taxing of expenses thereof." The house would recollect that during the last session of Parliament a con-millets had been sp poin cd upon this subject, which had extended its in quiries to many importsnt departments of private business, and had made a report, in accordance with which certein resolutions were proposed nod adopted. One of the measures to adopted had relation to the printing of priest° bills, and he was glad to say had saved great trouble and ex pense. Another referred to the appointment by the speaker of examiners of bills, in order to ace if the standing orders were eompliid with. Ile was glad to state that this arranges meet had proved very beneficial, and that at the beginning of February in the present year they were as forward with respect to standing orders as they ordinarily were at the end of March. It was also a fact that no individual had had to wait for examination more than 0110 day this year, whilst last year witnesses were detained 12, 11, and sometimes 20 tl3ys, before they could be examine], of course to the great cost and inconvenience of the parties. (Hear, hear.) The third measure carried out last year was, to secure a local examination, and ho was glad to state that this arrangement bad given perfect satisfaction to all parties, an] had been attended by great reduction of expense. There were, however, two or three points in the committee's last report which still remained to be dealt with. It bad been particularly recommended that the practice of parlia ment, in respect of fees, should be assimilated to that of ' every ether tribunal, and that a specific table should be es tablished, and bills be subjected to the same examination. In looking at this queetion, however, many difficulties bad been found to attend it : and it IV.III therefore considered desirable to reassemble the committee of last year, with a view to a further report upon this subject Ile, therefore, moved the appointment of the committee, to consist of Mr. Hume, Lord Granville Somerset, Sir 0. Grey, Sir J. Gra ham, Mr. Strutt, Mr. Cardwell, Mr. Greene, Mr. G. Craig, Sir W. Clay, Sir W. Heatheote , Mr. Eatcourt , Mr. Loch, Mr. H. Drummond, Captain James, and Lord Courtenay. Dr. BO WRING seconded the motion, and the committee was appointed. RAILWAY BILLS. Mr. ELLICE moved that all railway bills, &c., in the present session be referred to the railway commissioners for their report to this house upon the following points previ ously to such bills being considered in committees of this house.—That any report en to be made upon each bill shall state the amount of the capital proposed to be raised, and of the loans proposed to be authonsed by the bill; and if under the mutinous of such bill any powers are to be given to any company already incorporated, of raising further capital or Icons, or of making alterations, branches, or extensions of their existing lines, or of purchasing or leasing any other lines made or to be made, or of subscribing to the capital, or guaranteeing the capital of, or amalgamating with other companies; such report shall also state the powers . granted by any former act or acts to such companies already nicorpo rated for any of the above purposes, and the manner in which, and extent to which, such powers have been exercised; and the report shall further state the opinion of the commis sioners thereon, and also their opinion as to any special pro. visions with which it may in any cue be expedient to accom pany the grant of any powers for any of the above- I mentioned purposes. That every such report be referred to the committee of this house appointed to ceneider the bill to which the same may relate. The right hon. member gave some details of the enormous engagements of several of the existing companies, and alter reciting various new railways before parliament, the engage ments of which ins great degree were to be added to those companies in operation, contended that before these or any similar measures were sanctioned by parliament, there should be some inquiry as to the mode in which such vast engagements were to be met. Some definite principle, some distinct system u to the treatment of railway projects by that house ought to be instituted. The right hon. gentle man observed that he thought it would be most desirable if without loss of time the railway committee board would give their opinion on the subject of the gauges. Mr. HUDSON did not object to the motion of the right hon. gentleman, but he differed from him as to the details on which his motion was founded. The right hon. gentle man bad fixed tho capital of the Midland Company at thirty millions, whereas in fact, and including all its leases, it did not exceed fourteen millions. There was no occasion for alarm as to the paviaent of the calls, as in the whole of his experience they hid never been more readily answered. He had himself called in three millions within the last two months, and had not had the slightest difficulty in getting the money. He cautioned the house against discouraging the public from railway investments. Sir R. INGLIS supported the motion. Lord J. RUSSELL slid not see any objection to the proposition. The information sought for might be useful to the house and the committee, while the latter would not be at all bound by the report. He trusted that the motion would not interfere with the progress of railway bills already before the house. TOBAGO. . Mr. HUME begged, in;;;;;;Cto notice, to ask whether any and what measures had been adopted to put an end to the dispute between the house of assembly, and the Judge of the Island of Tobago, by which all public business by that assembly had been interrupted for a year ? Mr. HAWES said, that the governor of the Windward Islands had visited Tobago, and had put the dispute in pro- ass of arrainment. YORKHOUSES (IRELAND). Mr. P. SCROPE had heard that the workhouses in Ireland were all crowded to excess. Now on referring to the act, he found that the guardians had unlimited power to take additional premises, and to pay for them by increased rates, or they were empowered to raise a loan for the purpose. This heing the case he did not understandhow the workhouses could be crowded to excels. He wished to know whether the right hon. the Secretary for the Home Department in tended to lay on the table papers in continuation of those which had been furnished early in the session respecting the condition of the workhouses in Ireland, and whether the house might expect any explanation on the subject. Sir G. GREY said that an additional series of the papers alluded to would be ready in a few days, as also a statement of the steps which had been taken by the poor-law commis sioners with reference to the workhouses, and with a view of urging the guardians to increased exertion. DRAINAGE ACT. Mr. BAILLIE mid that the Scotch applicants for loans under the Drainage Act had been greatly encouraged to make application by seeing a letter from, Mr. Blamire, the drainage commissioner, to the effect that the provisions of the Act would he so extended as to include fencing and the clearing of waste land. He wished to know whether go vernment intended to introduce any bill on the subject i Sir G. GREY said that a bill was in preparation, extend ing the powers of the original bill be and drainage. lie did not know, however, whether it would go as far as the clear img of waste land. Mr. HUME wished to know whether there was any In tention of bringing in a bill to enable landowners to sell • portion of their property when entailed, to pay for the raga mation of the rest? (Ear, hear.) Sir G. GREY said, that the subject alluded to by his bon. '1 friend was under the consideration of the Lord Advocate. DISTRESS IN SCOTLAND. I Mr. BOUTERIE asked when the house was likely to haw ' the correspond race relative to the distrait in Scotland ? Sir G. GREY would make inquiry and answer the Ina. member on a future day. NRW BISHOPRICS. Mr. J. COLLETT wished to asks question respecting the apprehended appointment of new bishops. (A laugh.) He wished to know when the house would have positive infor mation on the subject Lord J. RUSSELL said that the beet way of obtaining information on the subject alluded to by the hon. member, would be to refer to the report of the commission which had been laid on the table a week since. The hon. member would there see that it was ropmed to maintain the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor — (cheers)—and to found a new bishopric in Manchester. t was also intended to found three new bishoprics, to be endowed from the present revenues of the church, but it was not intended to summon the new bishops to parliament, except as vacancies in the bench of bishops occurred. Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know whether the arrange meat could be effected without an net of parliament ? Lord J. RUSSELL said it would be impossible to effect it without an act. As soon as the commission should have come to a decision, he would move for leave to bring in a bill relative to the see of Manchester. REGISTRATION IN BOROUGHS. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that be was in some slight difficulty as to the motion which stood in his name for that evening. He understood that it was wished he should post pone it. Now, while they to the principle, be had no objeciih e ejostponement was asked by hon. mem bers objection, but if it was ask merely that an opportunity might be at: amid at a future period for strangling the bill, he certainly slosil not secede to the request. lad J. RUSSELL had merely intimated that he did not dINII to the introduction of the bill; but if, as his hon. ,fiat said, the bill only repeated the provision of the Re tie= DID, without proposing any other provision in lien thereof, he would state at once that to the principle of it he was Sir i grI L AVANS was prepored to seerel his boo. friend's motion; but suggested that ha amnia tat ndy confine him self to that motion now, in ender art so option might be offered to the bill in its tart alp. Mar, h . 1 Mr. T. BUNCOMBE the Gat as the object of the bill am well haws it wee blew that the question shoal& he deeided al ones. Its 'ke* ebeoellsee proceed to a dote ant of He germ kg eileing to irkoduce it. It wadi mom aft dile suoalog lisle wen the reform bill—set a 1= big a pietism hail* meeplained of by the wheb be; In dip _sad bareogba. He maintained VW ills Wm albs Aar= 818, Meting the right to mete. Maidliamil al OW prat of poor-rates and. somata teem, wee in principle, and most veadlene la its openalse. soble lord had stated in 1832, miminsc ra the propos eta Bill, tact no man should b= who lei ad earolod to the imposition of web lama That wee a eniollyilenal 'proposition; but the peouislen In t i s i mber ßiama ami l msoia lits ail:ol io ith... 7 at th ritaa th es e n it atir th it. a lio bask. segidered ifra ebene, Finsbury, the Tower Lambeth, sad Greenwich, tore • great dbl's's:eel= Mate smentser of beams rated above lot. bib* noggin Greenwich, Gen was he illy a house la Sage which was not so rated; while the whale sanest al= was only 45,000, Mamma of 90,000, as gonuiri by OW noble lord. As for Westminster, it wee la a vas B a lers. than before the Reform Bill pawed, for in 1907, whin IMP. Burdett was dint returned, there were 18,000 votian, Wide N ..11•• • ~ s~ THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 24, 1847. now there WON notmorethan 11,000. Id Liverpool there were 42,000 houses rated to the full amount, and only 14,000 per sons on the registr y ; in Birmingham 36,000 houses, and only 4,600 on the regutry,—the same disparity befits observable in Manchester, and many othir towns. Thus had this objectionable provision in the Reform Bill bad the effect of diminishing instead of enlarging the electoral body. It was a provision, moreover, which led to all kinds of bribery and favouritism, through the collectors and overseers of parihes, and was declared in an article in the rimer newspaper in 1834, which fully bore out his view of the question, to be an entirely new principle. Ile, therefore, moved for leave to bring in a bill to repeal so much of an act pared in the reign of William IV., intituled " An Act to Amend the Representation of the people in England and Wales," as makes the right to regis tration in cities and boroughs conditional on the payment of poor 's-rates and assessed taxes. [ln the course of the hon. member's athletes the Usher of the Black Rod appeared at the bar, and summoned the House to attend the )louse of Loris, and hear the royal assent given by commission to severa l bills, for which, see lords' report.) Lord J. RUSSELL mid, that if his bon. friend had merely wished to lay the bill on the table of the house, he should not hese objected to its introduction, but as he had thought it advisable to take the discussion now, unless be (Lord J. Russell) would promise to support it on the second reading, be felt bound to oppose its introduction. His hon, friend had read a paragraph from a newspapoq stating that this was entirely a new priuciple introduced by the Reform hilt, and that the payment of rates was never before de: rued anecessary preliminary to registration. That was altogether a mistake. The ancient vght of voting in counties mote out of the pos session of property to the amount of 40s. a year, which seas coneidered as a sufficient guarantee te the state that the per son so possessed was worthy of being entrusted with a side. There was likewise in boroughs what was called the commas law right of voting, when there was no particular charter restricting it—and that was rho right of all householders paying scot and lot—the meaning of which was, that they should be persons paying the poor-rates, as interpreted by our courts of justice. Such woo the ancient law and the ancient constitution respecting counties and boroughs ; and the principle was not therefore a new one introduced into the Refinin Bill, but transferred in an altered form to the provisions of that measure. Hie hon. friend complained that the Reform Bill had not extended the right of voting as much as he (Lord J. Russell) had promised. The calculations he had made when stating the general provisions of the bill were, of course, formed upon rude and vague estimates, and could not be expected to be accurately borne out. But he thought his hon. friend had proved that there had been a very great extrusion of the franchise under the Reform Bill. Ile bad admitted that Lambeth, Marylebone, Finsbury, and the Tower Ham lets contained 46,000 electors, which, as these places returned no members previous to the Reform Bill, must be regarded as a very considerable extension of the franchise of the country. But in thus extending the franchise to 101. householders in many towns, as Manchcater, Leeds, and Birmingham, and to Bath, and others in which the electoral rights had hitherto been confined to five or ten persons, it was intended that 101. householders should be subject to a test similar to the scot and lot franchise by the payment of poor-rates and as sessed taxes. He thought this a wise and constitutional provision, and in conformity with the ancient law, and it was wise to ascertain that persons to whom the franchise was given, should be those who were possessed of certain property. According to his belief, it was better to entrust the franchise to persons of pro perty, than to adopt a universal suffrage. If it was laid down as a principle that the franchise should be obtained by the posserion of property, there should be a test by which they could be known to have that property ; that they were not merely inhabitants of houses, but that they paid the usual and regularaseessed taxes and poor -sates, and, in the case of counties, were subject to the expenses of gaols and the like expenditure, by means of the county rates. If *.y did not take on themselves the obligations to pay rare and taxes, but by the occupation of houses at 101. a yrs were qualified to vote, it would be difficult to resist the argument, that the mere occupation of houses should nut be the only qualification, but that the right should be ex tended farther, and no distinction be made in the case of ledgers. But the payment of rates end taxes not only showed that the persons claiming the franchise were solvent, but also that they contributed something to the state, and wero interested in the maintenance of the laws and constitution of the country. His hon. friend said that there were many occupiers of houses excluded from voting, who possessed the right, and that when persons paid rates and taxes for others, they were not able to secure their votes at an election. In that respect there had been an improvement on the system of soot and lot. When, under that system, it was required that no one should vote unless the rates were paid, it happened that three or four days before an election two or three hundred persons would say to a candidate, " We are ready to vote for you, if you will pay our rates." This gave rise to much bribery, and votes were given to the first candidate who would pay the rates. It was intended to alter this, and have the registration fixed at a particular period of the year, and not at a time near an election. This was cal culated to prevent bribery, fur a candidate would not bribe by paying rates in July, since he was not sure that in December or January the persons for whom he had paid them would show their gratitude by voting fur him. His hon. friend said as much as this, for he stated that some candidates complained that they had paid rates in July for voters who would not vote for them in December. This was what wee intended, and he (Lord J. Russell) hoped it would be • lesson to them not to bribe again—(hear, hear)—and he hoped his hon. friend would advise them that, seeing it was of no use to attempt to gain cots by paying the rates of electors, they would leave them to pay for themselves, end trust to their political principles for their support, whether they were Whig, Conservative, or Radical. It was said that it was a defect in the Reform Bill that the period of registration came too suddenly after the time that the rates due should be paid up, and votes in boroughs were often lett out of the registration from no fault of their own, but from not having notice of the non-payment of their r ates. Since then, there had been an alteration in the law, and by 6 and 7 Viet., c. 18, s. 11, over trees were required to give due notice that the payment of rates was necessary to secure registration. So, that if a person was anxious to secure his vote, and was willing and able to pay the usual rates, he would find, that on the 20th of June a notice would be posted up in his borough that the rates due on the 6th of April must be paid before the 20th of July, or his name would not be registered. This was a fair and sufficient notice, and any man who was anxious to vote, who meant to pay his rates, was possessed of a home of the value of 101. a-year, and had a month's notice, was inexcusable, if he was solvent and able to pay, if he did not do so. If, on the other band, ho was unable to pay the rates on a house of the yearly value of 101., he bad uo right to claim a vote for it. Any one who looked to others to pay his rates was very likely to be corrupted ; and every person not paying his rates should be contented to forego his vote. He did not think this bill was defensible on principle. It was a far greater invasion on the constitution than the Reform Bill, for it was a great innovation that any one who had not paid his rates should be entitled to vote. His hon. , friend haring been desirous that the discussion should take place, he (Lord J. Russell) had stated the reasons why he was opposed to this bill, and he should object to its intro duction. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GISBORNE would support the introductionof the bill. The occupier of a house of the yearly value of 101. was required to pay his rates before he could sote, and there was a power of distesining for them, and what more was to be &aired ? If in committee on the bill any bon. member should propose that when 'distress for rates had been levied, and • return of nulla bona was made, the vote should be disallowed, he would agree to such an amendment, but he could not see on what principle more was asked. Sir DE LACY EVANS said that the avowed object of the rate paying clauses of the Reform Bill was to show the solvency of voters, but it appeared from returns on the table of the house, that they did more, for they deprived many bond fide electors of their votes. The return from St. George's, Westminster showed that 399 persons in St. James' and Belgrave squares, and Great George-street, bad been deprived of the franchise. Could such persons be said not to be solvent? The noble lord said that the ancient principle of the law was, that the rates should be paid by voters ; but it did not include taxes ; so that the qualifi cation was now doubled, and electors were subject to the improper conduct not only of parethial officers, but the collectors of government taxes. No less than 100,000 persons in the metropolis, not only holders of 101. but 50/. houses, had been deprived of their votes by the operation of this dose. After a few words from Mr. P. HOWARD, Mr. HUME said that the law had provided means for collecting rates and taxes, independent of the franchise. He had, during the progress of the Reform Bill, seconded • motion to expunge this clause, and he had presented a peti tion fr om Westminster which showed that one of the greatest abases of the franchise was, the payment of scot and lot. Gnat disemitent existed on the subject of the franchise, for ant sore than 12 males in 100 powered the right of voting. The noble lord had pledged himself that there should never be lees than 100 voters in a borough, but there were returns which showed that there were more than 30, in which the amber was under that. If the noble lord refused to agree to the remota of this impediment to the free exercise of the franchise, he ought to redeem that pledge. The day was not far distant when the people would not be satisfied with tie present state of things, and be recommended that some mesas of conciliation should be resorted to, which this bill wad go far to effect. Sir B. HALL wished to call attention to the favouritism exhibited by the collectors of taxes. In the borough of Marylebone 1,033 voters were disqualified on account of the non-payment of assessed taxes, and only 384 by th e non payment of parish rates, and this not by the unwillingness or incapacity of the parties themselves but the wilful carelem nets of the collectors. He would mention an instance in which an election had been nearly turned by the carelessness of the collectors. In 1834 he, being abroad, was a candidate for Monmouth, and the collector of taxes did not call for the payment of the rates of some persons who voted for him. On the being represented to him he required him to do his duty, and he called on four persons whose names were put on the register, and he (Mr. B. Hall) was returned by a majority of four. If, therefore, the collector had not been compelled to do his duty another member would' have been returned. In the borough of Marylebone there were 32,000 houses of the yearly value of 101., and only 14,000 voters. If this bill was rejected, he hoped the go vernment would take the matter into consideration, so that ample time might be given in which persons might pay their rates, and that they should not be placed so much in the power of the collectors. Mr. T. D'EYNCOURT said that the collectors ought to make a demand for the payment of rates at every house, and if they did not do so the vote should not be Iced. There were 200,000 voters ler than were intended by the Reform Bill ; and while the population had increased the electoral body had fallen far abort of It, He had Furled, during the pro grass of the Reform Bill, that the franchies should be under the scot and lot system. This made the peyizent of rates necessary to the franchise. But it was inconsistent with the system, under the old constitution, that the payment of as sessed taxes should also be a requirement for the franceise. He trusted that if the noble lard rejected this bill, he would think a case was made out for another, which muds it imperative that the collectors should call at every 1 ouse where taxes were due. Many .persons corapouudee for their taxes, the Yates being paid by other perms/. These were cues which rs quired Interference, and he trusted this bill would be allowed to be introduced, or some other measure to relieve the constituent body of this country from the glaring evils which exist. Captain PECHELL observed that he gathered from the close of the speech of the noble lord the member ex the City of London, that " final:ty " was to be the order of the day, and that in order to obtain a redress of Ririe, awe-, they must as heretofore take up the muter into their own hinds. With the speech of the noble lord, he (Capt. Pechell) coa ti:seed he was, gricsously disappointed. He was sure that large classes of the community were not only discontented with the state of the representation, but also were disap pointed with the fruits the Ref.= Act had produced, and yet now, when an opportunity was afforded for effec ing a sort of compromise with the large bodies who have sent pe titions from all parts of the kingdom, praying or a far more extended species of suffrage, the opportunity woe neg'ected, and, on the contrary the noble lord refused to allow a mea sure of a less extende ' d character, but which the peep! • were willing to accept, to come even to a first reading. having been entrusted with petitions from hie constituents in favour of the proposition of the hon. member for Finsbury, he should give his support to this measure as a means of en suring a fairer representation of the people in that house. Mr. WAKLEY hoped that if the bill of his hon. co:league was to be opposed by the government, a divi-ion would be taken at this stage, as it would be aperft et waste of the public time to introduce the bill, and after a repetition of the arguments adduced to-night that it should be rejected. The noble lord at the head of the government had shown great talent but not much discretion in his opposition to this bill. He had wholly tailed to show that the measure was either of an unjust or uuconstitution al character. Toe case in favour of the measure was, that under the Reform Act no such qualification was imposed upon the county voter as was affixed to the electors in titles and boroughs, end it was fur the opponents of the proposition of his hon. col league to show why one principle should prevail In a county and another principle in a borough or city The only reason for the difference was, that the county voter was of tho richer class, while the borough eke tors were for the most part poor men ; but the fact that they bad been rendered so by a lone couree of bad legis lation, afforded no reason for refusing them a voice in the election of their representatives. lie was surprised at the silence which, on the present occasion, prevailed on the Treasury bench, many of the present occupanteof which had, on a former occasion, supt.ertei the proposition now repeated by his hon. colleague. It appeared to hint that hating pre tended to give the people a 10/. franchise by the Reform Act, it was a mean, paltry trick, and most dishonest on the part of the coneoctors:of that scheme, to rob them by tl.c opera tion of the rate paying clauses of the right which it was pre teuded to bestow upon them, (Hear, hear.) Under these clauses, not merely the poor, but the higher classes were not unfrcquently disfranchised, and he might instance the cues of the governor of Antigua and of the right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth. Ho trusted that the division would not be postponed, but that the question would be got rid of at once one way or the other. (Hear, hear.) Sir 0. GREY said he was surprised that the boa. mem ber should complain of the silence of the Treasury bench, after the full and candid statement made by his noble friend (Lord J. Ruuell) of the grounds upon which the govern ment intended to oppose the second reeling of the bill. But the bill to which the arguments used in a form, r debate applied was the measure brought in by the hon. and gallant member for Westminster, to carry out the intentions of the Reform Act, by adhering more closely to the ancieut privi lege of the constitution with regard to scot and lot voters, and to extend the time for the payment of rates and taxes, in order to avoid accidental disfranchise ment. This was not the question now before the house ; the question to-night was • much wider one, namely, whe ther or not the rate-paying clauses ought to be got rid cf. He denied that the effect of this measure would be to in crease the constituent bodies in the metropolitan districts, and it was quite clear to him, that it would fail to Faddy the expectatiou of those who sought a more extended franchise. When the addition of Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, and the large towns in the manufacturing districts of Lancashire and Yorkshire, had been made to those already sending members to parliament, it was unfair to say that the Reform Act had failed to increase the number and amount of the constituency of the kingdom. It had been asked why a difference had been made between the county and borough voter. The answer was, that such dis tinctions had existed before the Reform Act. On all the grounds stated by his noble friend (Lord J. Russell), he I Sir G. Grey) considered the government pursued a right principle in objecting to the introduction of this bid. Sir C. NAPIER remarked, that as the hon. member for Finsbury (Mr. Wakley) had succeeded in unfeeling the mouth of the right hon. baronet (Sir George Grey), he ehould he glad if he could unseal the mouths of some of the metropolitan members, who, on the last connote had sup ported a similar measure to that now proposed to be intro duced. He should be glad to hear what explanation his hon. and gallant friend (Admiral Dundee) would give to his constituents at Greenwich when he appeared before them next year, if he now voted against this bill, lie desired the same from the hon. member for Lambeth, now one of the under secretaries for the colonies (Mr. Hawes), and from the hon. and gallant member for the Tower Hamlets (Omer, 1 Fox), who now held office in the ordnance department. (Hear, and a laugh.) With reference to the question now before the house, he (Sir Charles Napier) had elesys under stood the intention of tae rate-paying clauses to be to induce the people to pay up their rates and taxes with greater facility than they hod formerly done. lie did not think they had succeeded in accomplishing that object, but as there existed laws by which payment could be enforced, he was of opinion that the franchise should not be taken from them also. He should therefore support the motion of the hon. member for Finsbury, and vote for the introduction of the bill. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that be could not understand the anomaly of requiring a money qualification for a 101. householder and none from a freeman or burgess. As a freeman he was one of the constituents of the noble lord the member for the City of London, but lance the noble lord had shown so backward a movement in the march of reform, if it were not for the good the noble lord had effec ted in former days, he doubted whether he should continue to support him. (Laughter.) lathe borough in which he resided, 2,814 voters bad been disfranchised, from the fact of having forgotten or overlooked the payment of rates. Much discontent prevailed on the subject throughout the country, and the time was not fur distant when the noble lord at the head of the government would be compelled to abandon hie adoption of "finality " principles. Lard G. BENTINCK said the hon, gentlemen who had just eat down had charged his noble friend app site (Lord J. Rumen) with a backward movement. If hi, noble friend had done so, he (Lord G. Bentinck) should, not on this occa sion give him his support; but because his no ale friend had taken a firm stand on that great measure of Worm, of which be bad himself been the father, he should to-night vote with him • and he thought that all thou gentlemen who were members of the House of Commons in 1830 and 1832, and who remembered that the country had been appealed to on " the bill, the whole bill, and nothing but the bill," which contained clauses identical with those sought now to barepeided, were bound in honour and consietency to sup pee lk sable friend against the proposition of the hon. weseaberkw Finsbury. (Hear, bear.) Mr. ESCOTT expressed his determination of suorting the introduction of this bill, conceiving . it to be calculated to get rid of a mass of corruption in elections, fueling from the payment for electors of their rates. After a few words from Col. T. Woos, which did not reach us, The house. divided—For the motion 3B Against it JUVENILE OFFENDERS. . _ Sir J. PAKINGTON, in moving for lure to bring in I A bill for the more speedy trial and punishment of juve nile offenders," said that the subject divided itself into three 1 branches, all important, and all surrounded with consider- I able difficulty. The first was the frightful Lnoranee which I prevailed amongst juvenile offenders, generally, of every duty towards God and man; the next was the present mode of trying and convicting juvenile offenders, with all its at tendant evils of previous contamination and subsequent ruin ; and the third—perhaps the most important, and aw -1 taint y the most difficult part of the subject—was the ques tion how to dispose of juvenile offenders aft or conviction, in such • manner is not to abrogate the proper punishment for the offence, and at the same time to keep is view the great object of reforming the offender. Upon the first and third of these benches of the question, he would off, r no observation beyond the remark that his experience in courts of justice had led him to the conclusion, that the want of better means of education in this country was the most fertile source of crime—(hear, hear)—and had impressed his mind with the necessity of some extended system of national education as one means of diminishing the serious am nint of juvenile crime. He could not but express his (lb appointment that the government had not gone further on the question ef edu cation ; and he hoped the time wee not far distant when they would be prepared to carry some national system of education to a much greater extent. That branch of the subject which related to the management ofjuvenile offenders after convic tion could only be dealt with successfully in the way in which it had been taken up by the government of the day. He wished to tender his thanks to the right hon. bait. opposite (Sir G. Grey) for the attention he had given to this subject,and to state his opinion that if the hon.hart.was successful in devising some eye= of reformation for juvenile offenders lie would con ler the greatest service upon the country. (Hear.) ButAwhatever his success, it would be incomplete and imperfect, unless he got rid of the eras attending imprisonment before trial, and altered the present mode of trying juvenile offenders. The object of the bill he sought to introduce was to substitute, in certain cases and under strict limitation, a power of summary conviction in lieu of committal for trial. Notwithstanding the just value which was placed in this country upon trial by jury, there was a class of cases in which the evils of previous imprisonment and the value of prompt and appropriate punishment were so great, as to make it' worth while to do away with the advantages of trial by jury. The offences for which juvenile prisoners were committed were in general extremely trifling. lie had care fully analysed the calendars of the county of Worcester, and found that this was the case to a great extent. In one case • boy bad been committed for stealing twopence. on the 13th November ; and he could not take his trial until the Epiphany sessions in January. In another, • lite.e girl, 12 years of age, had been charged with stealing • quart • of milk. The statements of the Liverpool magistrates, in thoir recent pe tition to the other house, were moot imp. tut on this subject, He found that I n sgej, the juvenile offenders under 15 years of age, formed between one-sixth undone-seventh of the whole of the criminals in the country. The authorities in favour of the change he now proposed were numerous and of great weight. He would first mention the inspectors of prisons, who, in 1836, had reported that the vice and corruption produced by the imprisonment of juvenile offenders was very aerioue, and that each imprisonment invariably tended to render them w one. With regard to many of the children imprisoned, absolute impunity would have been a far less evil than the effects of the system now pursued. (Hear, beer.) In 1334, a committee of that hr woe had been appointed on the subject of capital punishment; it was divided into four sub-committees, one of which, presided over by the right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth, had assigned to it the subject of criminal prosecutions. In their report, they earnestly re commended the government and parliament to take into their early consideration the practicability of establishing some tribunal for the speedy trial of young offenders charged with comparatively light offences—grounding their recom• mendation on the fact, that imprisonment, instead of creating repugnance to crime, familiarised the minds of the youthful offenders with its most revolfing features. The bill now sought to be introduced had been formed in accord ance with the principles laid down by that com mittee; and on that ground, he hoped for the sup port of the right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth. The licit authority was the report of the Criminal Law Commissioners, which had been quoted f ivourably, on an other occesion, by the noble lord at the head of the govern ment. Their report in 1837 expressed the valve which seve ral of them still entertained, that some other mode of dealing with juvenile offenders was absolutely necensare. He was also authorised by Sir Edward Ryan, late a hid justice of Indio, to rate that he fully approved of the bill now pro po,ed. In answer to the allegation that there wen objec tions of principle against doing away with the trial by jury in the cam of juvenile offenders, he read a portion of the report of the Criminal Law Commissioners in 1537, in which they referred to this subject, and expressed a di tided opinion in favour of entrusting magistrates with a summary juris diction. Fortified by these authorities, he anticipated that no opposition would be offered to this bill. In the present state of the law, an thoroughly cc/evinced were magistrates throughout . the country of the ruinous COOSeVellCeil of com mitting juvenile offenders for trial, that they frequently exercised a power of summary punishment, which they did not pews, ; while othe re, taking a stricter view of theirduty, committed this elan of offenders; and thus different courses were pursued in different parts of the country. The same feeling extended to recorders and other judges at quarter sessions; in one case, in London, a youthful offender, being convicted of some trivial offence, was senesced to an imprisonment of one hour, to preserve him (rein the contamination of the geol. The hon. gentleman then re ferred to the report of Mr. M. D. Hill to the Society for the Amendment of the Law, in which the learned gentleman described die course he hod pursued, in his capacity as recorder of Birmingham, with reference to juvenile convicts. Several persons with whom he had conversed, while con senting to do away with the trial by jury of these offenders let quarter sessions, would substitute trial by jury at the petty sessions ; but to this there would be great objections. The object of the bill was to give a summary juris dictionto the magistrates, whereby, in cases where the stolen property did not exceed 40s. in value, they might commit the prisoner for a period not exceeding six months. A power of appeal against the conviction was given ; also a doocretion to the magistrates, and where a case was surrounded with difficulties, to send it to the quarter sessions, or for trial in the usual course. It was also desirable that the magistrates should have the alterna tive, in trilling charges of felony, either of imposing • fine or of committing the prisoner ; by this means, many of the jevenile offenders might be saved from total ruin • and, by means of the fine, the parents might be reached, w ho, in four cases out of five, were the really guiity parties. (Hear, hear.) Some Beth alteration of the law as he now proposed was required alike by justice, mercy, and slued policy ; and he entreated the government aryl the house, not only to allow him to bring in the bill, but to give it the fairest and most favourable consideration. After the great attention which had been given to this subject, he believed that re flecting men on all sides had come to the opinion that such an alteration ought to receive the sanction of parliament. Sir G. GREY said he rose to give a very willing consent to the motion for leave to bring in this bill. Without com mitting himself to the principle of the bill, as he could hardly be expected to do, he felt that the thanks of the house were due to the hon. member for the attention which he had bestowed on the subject, and for bringing forward the results ' of his own experience, and offering the siggsstione founded upon that experience in the shape of this bill. There was no subject of greater importance to the interests of the coun try than that to which tthe hon. gentleman had directed his attention. The attention of the government also bad been very much directed to the subject ; and he (Sir G. Grey) should be very happy to derive assistance—he hoped he should derive much, from the attention which had been paid to it by the hon. member. (Hear, hear). Mr. HLME said the hon. gentleman, in moving to in troduce this bill, had admitted that the great cause of juvenile delinquency was general ignorance ; and if so, whose fault was it ? Of none more so than those who 1 complained ; for sectarian differences and religious bigotry prevented the adoption of a system of sound moral • and useful learning. Instead of looking to punishment, let them consider what were the mess s of prevention. Every . attempt that bad been made to instruct youth,%oth in their moral and civil duties, bad been foiled by religious and sectarian dilierenecs. Yearly had juvenile delinquency been brought before the house for the last ten years, and no alteration in the criminal law had yet been made. These laws were a stigma on the government and the country. It was the duty of the government to take up this question, and not to leave it to individual members of that house to do so. ' It was the duty of the government to see that the youth of every sect should be educated. He did not rise to oppose the bill, hut to express his belief that it was a great reflection on the government that no improvement had taken place in the education of youth and the treatment of juvenile offenders in prisons. Mr. SIIAW expressed hie thanks to the lion. gentle man for bringing forward this measure, but there was one objection which he wished to make to that portion of it which provided that there should he some court of appeal for juvenile offenders who had been once convicted. He did not see how that proposition of the hon. gentleman could be made applicable. Ile did not see how a young criminal who had been in ono instance found guilty, could without advice use his own sound discretion on that point. He could not tell whether his case was one which admitted of any chance of success by appealing to another court. With regard to the general principles of the bill, he gave them his most cordial support. Col. T. WOOD urged upon the house the necessity of erection separate prisons for juvenile offenders, so as to pre clude the possibility of their coming in contact with older and more hardened criminals. That was not the only thing that was necessary : they should after their discharge have further protection from the necessity of following their old vicious practices. lie suggested that the government should build four or five penitentiaries in different parts of the country for the reception of juvenile offenders, and that their maintenance should be afforded by the counties from which they cause, and when possible they parents should be com pelled to pay for their support. Leave was then given to bring in the bill. RELIGIOUS BEQUESTS. Lard J.MANNERS, in moving for leave to bring in a bill to alter and amend the laws relating to the disposition of pro perty for pious and charitable purposes, said that when the house was kind enough to glee him leave to bring in a bill of this description before, it was met on its being brought forward for a second reading, with two objections, namely, that it did not afford a sufficient protection against the solicitations urged at the death-bed of a languishing per son, and that it was expected it would lead to a large in crease in the amount of land tied up in mortmain. In the bill which he now asked leave to introduce, great are was taken to meet these two objections. It proposed to require that all wills or (bade, containing bequests or grants, should be signed three months before the death of the testator, and that when bequests or grants were made, they should go, not as lands, but the property should be sold and the proceeds should go to charitable purposes. It pro posed that small portions of land intended to be sites for chapel and schools should be exempted fromthe necessity of being sold. These were the provisions of the bill, and if at any time there should be any necessity for him to apologize for bringing thin bill forward, it was not at the present moment, immediately after the discussion which had taken place relating to the bill for the introduction of which the house had just granted leave, in which it was clearly shown that education in this country was grossly neglected, to promote which was one of the main objects of this bill. He would, therefore, humbly ask for leave to bring iu the bill. Sir R. H. INGLIS said, that although he entertained all the objections which he had felt and expressed on all former occasions to most of the provisions of the bill which his noble friend had asked leave to introduce, he did not at the present moment entertain any desire to divide the house on the subject. Though he regarded the alterations made in the provisions of the - bill as not inconsiderable, yet they were far from sufficient to mitigate his general ohjectiens to this measure. As the house had admitted on • former occasion the introduction of a bill still more objection able, and had consented to take the discussion on • future stage of the measure, ho was not willing to object to their following the same course now. lie would then express as strongly as he could his general objections to the measure. As his noble friend alluded to the neglect of education in this country, he would ask him in what way did this bill tend to supply that defi ciency ? There was no provision in it whereby the liberality of a dying Christian might be directed to the foundation of a school to disseminate the Christian doctrine. He held that Christian liberality should be exercised in a man's lifetime, and defrayed out of the property which he was possessed of at the time, and that he should deny himself and not his heirs of th at property. When he found that an individual deprived his natural heirs of half his property, if not in articulo nsortia, yet with the immediate prospect of I death, he thought that it was much better that he I should do it uncontrolled by that immediate pros an with the full exercise of his reason. He certainly hoped that the house would reject the DM when it came leeward for discussion ; but yet be did not think himself called upon at that moment to oppose its introduction. He trusted that his noble friend would give them ample nity for con sidering the measure, and appoint its see n d o reading Its soots day after Easter. Sir O. GREY was glad that his right hon. friend the member for Oxford did not think it was necessary to oppose the introduction of this bill. He felt it his duty, whom the noble lord last brought forward this measure, to unite with the right hon. baronet in opposing it, and now without wishing to prejudice the discussion which may hereafter take place, he would state that he apprehended that the altera tions which had been made in the hill were not sufficiently extensive to induce him to hope that he might be enabled to support it in its coming before cheat fora second reeding. Without giving any definite opinion uto what course he should then think it his duty to take, he thought that the noble lord was entitled to introduce it. With retard to the exception that lands intended for sites for chapels and schools should not be converted into money, he had only n; say that extensive alterations had already been made aith regard to churches and schools in the laws of mortmain fax the purpesa of providing sites for them, and removing obstacles to their construction. Leave wasgranted to bring is the bill. WOOLWICII ARSENAL. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE then rose to move for the foUosviag papers : " Copy of the evidence taken before the court of inquiry, Instituted in the month of April, 1845, by t!;, Board of Ordnance, at the Royal Arsenal, Woolwich, to in. vestigate charges preferred by Daniel Toner against William Jones, deputy storekeeper, together with a copy of th e charges, and the report taerenn. Also, a copy of the charges preferred, end the evidence given against . D em il Toner, late a labourer in the Royal Arsenal, Wonlseteh, by Mr. Reed, a clerk in the stirekeeper's department, before Lord Bloomfield, Col. Blaynry, and Mr. Cheetham, in Ang , 114.5, with their report thereon." The hon. member sad his object in moving for these papers was two-fold. Tie tint was to show the rules by which the moral treatment of convicts was governed at Woolwich. Convict, had teem known to say that in one hour they had committed me re robberies, under thy officers at Woolwich, than they had committed in all the rest of their lives. But thu was not his only object. He wished to chew, in addition, the abuses which had tak n place in this department. The Daniel Ton: r who was mentioned in those papers was a man employed in the Arsenal. He had been instrumental in laying bare a system of peculation and fraud. People said he was an impracticable and dangerous man, but it only seemed thct he woe impracticable and dangerous whey he encountered the dishonest. Because he had expand these ebusss in the Arsenal, Toner became a mark, d There was a clerk there named Reed, who had the payment of the labourer,. Toner, upon going to receive his pay, was one day told by Iteed to take off his hat. He refused, unless there was a general order to that effect. The next week a general order was posted. Toner took off his hat in obedience to it. " Ah," said Reed, "you take off your hat to-day. do sou ? I thought I should make you obey me." " Yes," replied Tuner, " but I shall only obey you when your order; are legal, not when you tell me to rob the Arsenal." " Now I have got you," said heed: " you shall be reported for insolence.' Accordingly he was reported. A tribunal was formed: Toner was never called before it, but Reed having been heard on oath, the loan was summarily dis missed. It was to prove these facts that he wanted the papers in question. It was, of course, his intention to found ulterior proceedings mien them, but what those proceedings might be be could not say until lie saw the documents. It they were refused, the government must rest under the on. potation of refusing them, in order to screen the delinquen cies of the department. Col. ANSON said the pathetic statement of the hon. member respecting this grave and important muter, about Mr. Daniel Toner, contain. dby no m' ans an unvar nished" tale. Daniel Toner's case, rightly told, would pre soot a very different complexion. lint this was not the ground on which he opposed this motion. Was the time of the house, he would ask, to be ocenpied with such mere departmentnl matters ? Was the country to be put to an enormous c xpense by printing, or tha gratification of the hon. member or Mr. T ' oner a mass of papers which could anima no good purpose, and which one member in fifty would never open ? (Hear, hear.) This Toucr had been a principal evidence in proving abuses, it was true ; and the party against wham the ebarges were proved was most severely punished for his offence. But what bad this Toner been about ? It was in the year 1842 that he first entered the arsenal, and from that time till he gave evi dence in the transactions referred to, it appeared that lie had been keeping memoranda in his pocket-book in order to criminate every one about him! Why, it wawa likely that ouch a spy as this would bo very popular with his fellows. The man wan constantly exciting the workpeople to acts of insubordination. At last he became insufferably insolent : he was reported and discharged ; and no one with any sense of justice would pass a reflection upon the decision of the court which diseharaed him. If the hon. member wanted the evidence taken respecting Tuner bcf re that court, he might have it, but to print anything further would be a mere waste of public money. Mr. HUME did not nt all agree in the opinion that this man ought to be condemned for taking notes of what paned at the arsenal. On the contrary, he considered he deserved the thanks of his country. if he (Mr. Ilum,) were at the head of a department, nothing would please him better than that each man should watch the proceed ings of his fellows, and report when they acted improperly. If persons in public offices were not encouraged in nobly coming forward and informing against those in the Mule de partment, when they had been notiee t to he committing de relietions of duty, it would be a grrat injury to the public service. He considered that Toner had been most diagram fully treated. After some observations from Mr. Du ecotone in reply, The gallery was cleared for a divicion. hut 4,1 memherg „ oat being present, the house stood adjourned till to-morrow (this day). ~.....r. N 1 \ •-• ....) 's iir ..."' 414 ght eporviii. MAILS. The overland closed mails, ria Mar.eiUes, to the Mediterranees. Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, Hong Kong, lee., will be made up au the evening all.: 21th February. The 311Ali* for Vigo, Oporto, Lisbon. Mnittirs, Cadiz, and Gibraltar. will be mode up on the morning of the 27th February. The mails for New South Wales, Van [hymen', land, and Iran Zealand will be made up on the evening of the let March. The West India mails, including thew fur Mexico, Honduras, id the Kavanagh, will be made up on the morning e 1 the 2nd Muth. The meals for Withal North America, Bermuda, nod the Coital Slates, will be made up on the evening of the 3rd March. The overland malls for Gibraltar, Malts, Greece, the lonieu Week. WV, Aden, Ceylon, India, llong-Komi, and China, via tiouthample. will be made op on the morning of the 3,d of March. The mans for the Brazils, the Elver Plate, Monte Video, Penis. bum, Bahia, Madeira, end Buenos Ayres, will be made op as de owning of the 4th Mach. TO CORRESPONDENTS. The Advertising Mem of the " DAILY NEWS" and . EXPELS . hare been REMOVED from 911. FLEET STREET, to No. la, IJOUVERIE-STREET, FLEET-STREET, contiguous to tbePriatilM and Tubtishing Oakes. We cannot nos, in any stay. any communication that Is seat to sc anonymouelyi but those who choose to acidrem us in confidence ea find their confidence respected. NEITITERCAN WE UNDERTAKE TO RETURN ANY MANUsCRIPTS WILATEVER. Advertisements intended for 7'Ae lispm. Tondo. ereningpepWs moat be at the Office by Two o'clock on the day of pubtioahan. MGR WATER AT LONDON-BUDGE- Tim Dkr—Mormon, 9 min. pant 9; Afternoon, 47 min. cost L Toadozszw—MoraLos, min. pot 10 ; Afternoon, 9 m past U. LONDON, WEDNESDAY, FE8.24. Lv the House of Lords yesterday the royal assent was given by commission to several bills. On the question of the third reading of the Destitute Person (Ireland) Rill, Lord BROUGHAM again asseverated Ns objections to the measure, as one calculated to WA the Irish people to look to assistance from the govern ment, rather than rely on the exercise of their ova exertions to support themselves. The Millais d LONDONDERRY defended the conduct of the Irish proprietors, so often run down by the noble aid learned lord, who it might be admitted perhaps weft too apt to follow the example of other ashy lords, who lived for a portion of the year in Auk amusing themselves with boar-hunting and Mk sports. Lord BROUGHAM denied that he bell ever run down Irish landlords, or boars : he was ad addicted to the latter sport out of England. Led BEAUSIONT urged upon the government that the ocly remedy for the evils existing in Ireland would be ea extensive system of emigration. The bill was thin read a third time and passed. i 4 In the House of Commons , the second d zZ the Regent's Canal Railway Bill, after a • was again postponed, Lord ISIORPETH Mills ski the consent of the crown would not be steel tip II bill in its present form. On the motion of ?dr. Hinkin select committee was appointed on the subject of es pensea incurred before parliament in the prosecution d private bills. Mr. ELLICR'SMOHOR, that all railwaybk should be referred to the Railway Comminsionsm k their report thereon, before being considered 111 committees of that house, was, after an ober:sada from Lord JOHN RUSSELL, that he hoped the Elk was not intended to apply daring the present agreed to. Sir G. Gnxv , in answe r to Mr.B.ittall: it was intended to cxtendthe principle of the Drain!! Act to other improvements of lands; and in replytonn HUME, that the Lord Advocate had under fiMemi• deration a bill for enabling landowners in Sootiest* sell a portion of their entailed property for the reds motion of the rest. Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in reply . ts Mr. J. GOLIXTT, observed that it was not intkik unite the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor • that salt bishopric was to be founded for Manchesier, sal Oat three other new bishoprics were in con Is be endowed from the existing revenues of . but without giving seats in the House of Leda Mr. DUNCOMBE moved for leave to brim ti a bill to repeal so much of the Reform Act as Mk! the right to registration in cities and boroughs OW rif A Lionel on the payment of poor-rates andammodloo4 which motion, a ft er some discussion beimmesni Lord JoaN RUSSELL on the ground that the of payment of rates was not a new one , but a_ in the ease of scot and lot voters before if passing of the Reform Act, was rejected, 011 s * vision, by a majority of 20. Mr. T. Dcscomal an. moved for copies of evidence and corresponded. i r i lative to the case of Daniel Toner, late a labomor the Royal Arsenal atWoolwich, which questioksa ll some discussion, went to a division, when, it ing that there were not forty members house stood adjourned until this day. °\ N. mr - 1% 6 li.