The Express. — London, England, 1847-01-26 00:00:00

die reason ropectine the Lehner Rate A. t of laffierision. the practical appliratem of which had, he observed, atnoaget after evil., withdrawn a great portion of the population of Ireland f ore profitable to unprofitable employment, and, to a great cetera , . paralysed the industry of the country. (Hear, hear, hear.) He did nce, homey, r. take so gloomy a view of the extent of the evil op to the present moment as some noble lords, one of whom said the* the latest period for snaring oats was the beginning of February. (A lino.) It was well known that the greater portion of Irish cern was spring corn, and that the proton of engine might not be look. d for until the months, of March and April, and even so lata as Mae. (Hear, hear.) He certainly was still of opinion that the government would hsve done bitter had they sacrificed • tattle of their adherence t. the doctrines of political enseomy and free-trade, and interfered with those petty ep: culators who, in regions remote from any consider able m irket, and where the ordinary speculations of enter prise &Mei to reach, bought tip the corn of the country and sold it at exorbit ant profits. In the prop wed measure fidr reel aimiter w ote lend. he entirely egreed ; hut here, again, her Majesty's government were deviating from their principle by taking upon themselves, in every respect, the chancier of landholder an one ride, end land speculistors on the other, purchasing and re-selling land and controlling the terms upon which it should be m itt. With regard to a system of emigre anon, he thought it wooll be encoded with much difficulty, at least it intended N be merle , ' to each an extent as would have any visible erect upon the population of the country. Upon the measures respecting the poor law and the &times he would not say one word. for fiellitating landed proprietors to relieve their estates by the sale of portions thereof he considered of the greatest ivportanee (although the noble marquis did not lay much atm. unon it), as it would have the effect not only of relieving existing elites of landlord*, but of tempting the intrwbaction of fresh capital. The weer merquis laid a much greater stems upon the offer of loans to landlords at three-end-a-hell' per cent., and seemed to expect an almost irnm diate effect from it. Now, if such an offer were made to the landlords of England they would doubtless largely avail themselva s of it. But there were cir cumstance. in Ireland which might very well be expecte I to cripple such a measure. The Irish landlord.' position was not like that of the English landlords. If an Eng lish landlord laid nut moue/ upon his estate, whether let under le me or to tenants at will, lie was certain to have the co-operation of the tenantry, and to obtain from them a cor respond'ng interest upon the money he advanced or ex pended. The English landlord, too, would have no difficulty whatever in removing an unimproving for the purpose of substituting an impaling tenant. This was not the case in Ireland. (" Hear, hear," from the Marquis of West meath.) There was another circumstance which ought to be borne in mind in any measnres for improving the landed Wittes of Ireland, and to which he had heard no reference made—he alluded to the cane of old tomes where the lands were held ender middlemen, where the landlord derived comparatively no benefit from them, and where any im provement to be elfeteil would go to the middleman, although upon the head landlord would rest the responsi bility of maintaining and supporting those pauper peasants who were upon his estate against his will, and over whom he could exercise no control whatever. This might hove arisen from previous improvidence, but it was of a very old date. (Hear, hear.) Ina case upon his own property, where the lease was granted in 1780, and where the original lone* had the power to stock the estate with a race of paupers. he (Lord Stanley) demurred to his transferring a farm upon it to another party, conceiving that in the lease there was a positive prohibition, stating, as it did, that the tenant was deharred from selling, alienating, assigning, or otherwise than by . will disposing, of the said farm; hot on taking the opin ion of counsel, he wee informed that there was nothing to the lease to prevent th r lessee, owing to'rhe omission of the word" sublet," from cutting up the farm, and subletting it to any extent he pleased. Thus the government would find in Ireland, what in England ma easy enough, a great difficulty in preveneing a population from being( ireol upon a property where the landlord could have no control over them, although burdened with their maintenance. It being a distinct and recognised object to introduce capital into Ireland, he thought that object ought to be partly attained by making advances to incorporated railway companies upon fair end indiapteehle security. He saw no more legitimate mode of facilitating the im. mediate distributien of capital in Irelend, as it would give instant employment under a supervision which would he much more effective than any the government could pro vide, as it would be sharpened by personal icaterest. lie could offer no definite plan upon the subject ; but merely suggested it to the government as a channel through which they might pour fresh capital into Ireland, and give instant employment to the people, and thus assist in meeting the present difficulty, without any loss to the public revenue. The noble lord concluded by expressing • general eoncurs once in the measures alluded to by the noble marquis, and a hope test they would be discussed with every disposition to en-operate with her Majesty's government, and a total freedom frets all captious objection. (Hear, hear.) Lord BROUGHAM hoped the noble m amain would lay some estimate before them of the number of melions these measures would cost ; the amount of the loan that would be required ; how the interest of that loan was to be Dud ; and whether it was to be paid by existing taxes,or whether the income-tax must not of neceest•y be ereaed for the purpose ? Be had heard the expense n imated at 15,000,0001., and if that were correct he should like to know how it was to be had and how repaid. He quite agreed with his noble friend in all the principles he had laid down for his guidance. Indeed, he would go a step further, and say that the government ought not to be a loan contractor or lender of money any more than a corn-dealer. miller, or maaufaeturer. If the government of England borrowed money Prom their Jewish opponents in the mar ket, they east pay interest for it ; but that the Irish land lora would pay it beck to the government, he was not quite sure. (A laugh.) He knew that they would wish, and would make an effort to do so, but he was not quite certain that they would be able to fulfil their intention. Without the exercise of the most strict and vigilant supervision these loans would become the source of the grossest system of jobbing. There was one subject which he would more espe cially press on the attention of the government—the poor law. No one could hare a greater repugnance than he had to extend the miseries and inemseniences which had followed upon the abuses of the English pour-law to the enter kinednm. Looking at the vast influx of paupers from Ireland into Liverpool. Manchester, Glasgow, and other tows s had at ler.gth brrught his mind to the no is viction that a well - framed measure, cirefully guarding against the sham. of the Engli‘h measure, was ab solutely necesary for Inland. With regard to the loans, if the interest upon them was to be paid by an increase of the property tax or the assessed taxes, he hoped the slater kingdom would in this matter have some little r egard for her English sister, and be content to pay her f air proportion, and that the property tax and the assessed taxes would be an longer for the English only. (Hear.) He trusted also that in say change that might be contem plated with reference to the former of those imposts, the attempt would not again be made to conciliate the large mass of small proprietors, sh ..pkeeper., and others, by drawing a distinction between the can with 1401, and the one with 1.501. a year—(hear)—by exempting the former hen his fair share of the burden. He suggested also that in the passage through parliament of any measure for allotting money to the Irish landlord.' by way of loan, or in any otherform, that tome such self-denying clause would be introduced as that proposed by Mr. Whitbread in the measure for the Exchequer IE6II Loan ; viz., that no commis s ioner or member of either house of parliament should he permitted to take any benefit under the ace He approved of the proposal for permitting tenants for life to liberate a pa-t of their property for the benefit of the whole. This would be of great ad vantage in bringing a class of independent tenantry on the estates. lie thought, toe, that the subject of fisheries had by no means occupied too much of the attention of the government. Exertion. could scarcely be made in a better direction than by lending the required capital, nets, and tackle, and furnishing experienced fishermen to instruct the people in working the Irish fisheries. But the more imme diate question to which their lordships' attention must after all he directed, was the want of food. (Hear.) The people were dying by thousands. It was not money that was wanted, but cern. lie well's' recommend a a ineens of keeping down the price of flour, or, at least, of preventing its further rise, to do that which had been dose with the most beneficial effect in 1795 and 1800, that is, that their lordships should enter into a voluntary league and covenant to discourage as much as possible the use of bread and pastry in their own families, and encourage by their ex ample, and all other means in their power, others to do the same. The noble lord concluded by inquiring if his noble friend (Lansdowne) had made any calculations of the amount of money that would be required for Ireland under the several measures the government proposed ? The Marquis of LANSDOWNE replied that at present it was imporsible for him to form any estimate of the amount which might be required. The Earl of DYSART agreed that it was impossible, without further consideration, for any noble lord to be com petent to give any opinion as to the various measures which the noble marquis had described. If, as one who had wit nessed many of the scenes of distress mining in Ireland, he found it necessary to touch upon some of the past measures of the government for meeting that distress with reprehen sion, it was with regret rather than censure, for, although very great evils had resulted from them, he wam quite aware they had been proposed and carried out with the best inten tions. He regretted, when it was first known in August last that the staple food of six millions of the Irish people was destroyed, that some more effectual provision for meeting such a calamity had not been made by ministers. He did not eny that they should have ransacked the markets of the world, and, by appearing es purchaser., enhanced the price of food but, by a well-enesidered and rautious mode of pro ceeding, they should have eitablished depots in those parts of Ireland wher the greatest apprehensions of scarcity were felt, and where them were no sufficient stores to meet the wants of the peep's But after all that had occurred, e did not ask their lordships to forgive the Irish landowners a farthing of their debt. England might be generous. but Ireland MOM be honest, and must sown every nerve to die charge her obligation. (liar, hear.) But if, regardless of all remonstrance, E:mgland had involved them in a useless expenditure, then it mast "e admitted tleet she owed them some reparation. The measures proposed by government might not go to the root of the evil. but taken altogether he believed they were reticulated to do a great deal of good. The Bari of DEVON, who was but imperfectly audible in the gallery, was understood to ay that the noble and learned lord who hid so unsparingly criticised the government mea sures mat have been strangely forgetful of many things which bad happened under his own cognisance and with his own concurrence. (Hear.) He (the Earl of Devon) fully admitted that the obligation of supporting the people of Ireland fairly rested on the land, but the difficulty was that the landlord did not always represent the land, and then the question was, how was the liability to he realised. (Hear, hear). He would remind the noble lord that in a former year the 'o verran,: cr Le jr d o:my had thought it desirable that the Irian landlords should i..te aisistsd by grants of money for purposes very similar to those now contemplated, and the noble anti learned lord was a leading member of that go vernment. (Hear, hear.) Bat the noble and learned lord had displayed considerable Ignorance of all the facts of the ease. Indeed, H tglishmen could hardly •be made I. aware of the manner in which the loss of the potato had armed all classes in Ireland. The farmer had been affected s well ma the labourer, for he had hitherto chiefly paid the latter in potatoes, and when the crop failed he put what money he had into the onvinge-lank, and went himself to work on the roads. The labour-roe act had been made the object of very general censure ,n that house. He, for one, although not prepared to defend it in all pserticulars, must still decline to join in the general and indiscriminating cry which had hero raised against it. Withrespect to the recla mation of waste lands he had some faith in that projt et, and in hi. opinion the most effectual way of currying it out would he to advance money to any respon sible company or individual* who might be inclined to undertake the speculation. The merit of the government proposals was, that they three: out various ways in which the improvement of Ireland might hp effected. The great permanent evil in that country was inadequacy of employ ment, and the more ways there were of providing employ ment the better. Emigration might lend valuable aid, and he quite concurred with his noble friend, the President of the Council, as to the mote in which the emigrant should he misted. He did not take so gloomy a view of the state of the country as some persons did. Its prospects were dark enough, but he bad confidence that, by the adoption of timely and wise measures, much of the evil might be averted. (Hear, ha ar.) The Heel of RODEN mid that this night's proceedings would recite the most intense interest in Ireland. He was glad to acknowledge the emotion, industry, and application which the government had shown in devising measures of relief for that counter. As far he ova. able to judge of the measures now proposed, he thought they would be a great boon to the coutatry ; but he would not express a confident opinion until he Kew them in print. Earl FITZWILLIAM said that as to the measures pro pounded this evening, he thought they did as much credit to the wisdom of minister. as they dad to the goodness of their hearts. (Heir.) Hut he must observe, that if the task of regenerating Ireland and bringing it into a healthy state, was to be cast upon one class—the landowners, they would he treated most unjustly. Did no other clans possess wealth? Could no other elms be called on to engage in this great and extensive work? The duty ought not to be east even upon Ireland alone. Why was Ireland in its present condition ? Why woe its population now so distressed ? Let wealthy London and England answer that question. England had been the mule of Ireland's suffering., by the long course of erroneous legislation that had been pursued. (Hear.) England, then, must artist in the work of regenerating Ireland ; the duty was sufficiently obvious, even had it not bet n entered by the feet that 22,000 Irish paupers had been relieved from the profits of the rate payers of Liverpool. It was the duty of England to resist the landlo:ds of Ireland in perrorming this important work. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL, in reference to the allega tion by the last speaker. that the sufferings of Ireland were solely attributable to England, observed that the pre datory wars carried on amongst the Irish chiefs for several centuries had materially retarded the progress of civilization in that country. Still, the rule of England hod been painful to the Irish. from the time of Henry the Second downwards; and had not England manifested a little petty jealousy, in treating Ireland as a conquered country, and making many commercial distinctions in disfavour of Ireland, that country would now have been in a much better condition. The Marquis of WESTMEATH expressed the satisfac tion with which he had heard the development of the views of the government with respect to Ireland, but desired to press upon them the importance of providing by law a better mode of the occupation of land in Ireland. Earl GREY said he was sorry to prolong the discussion, seeing the house was now reduced to so small a number of its member., but at the same time some remarks had been made in the course of this debate which ought not to be al lowed to pass without some notice. The great majority of those noble lords who had spoken, had pronounced the strongest condemnation of the tabour act of last session, and certainly, listening to those noble lords, the impression created by them must have been ore of very great censure on her Majesty's government. for want of common foresight and common prudence. He (Earl Grey) could not, however. hells thinking, that if their lordships would consider for a moment what really had been the course of legittla tion last year, they would see good reason for be lieving He begged to remind the house that the act was only a re newal of one passed in the early pert of the sa elan by the late government, for the relief of the distress in Ireland (Hear, hear.) Of the measures of the late government the most effectual was that which authorised preventments for public works. It was hrought in in the month of January, and carried into extensive operation. Presentments to the large amount of 1,300.000/. were passed under it, and so fur from any complaint■ being made with respect to useless 1 works, there were districts in Ire' and where nn distress pre vailed, which presented for public works with a view, am they openly confessed, of having a share in the money. (Hear, hear.) At all events the mesaure was effectual fee its purpose, though only 34,0061. out of the 1,300,0001. which had been presented for was issued. Her Majesty's present government haying succeeded to office in the month of June, when the attention of parliament was directed to the commercial measures which then occupied the mind of the country, and when there was every prospect of an abun dant hareem in Ireland, was it unnatural or unreasonable, the potato diarese having manifested itself all of a sudden in August, - that the gnvernment should have adopted with some mOdifications, the measure which had been found effectual' during the previous partial failure of the patens in Ire land. The fault of that me auire wee, that half the money was given by the covemment, and in that reamed it was amended. The principle of the bill which the present government tarried was reasonable, but they reckoned upon the co operation of the landlords of Ireland. That it failed in some respect he admitted, hut its failure was not owing to any errant in the hill, hut to the manner in which the powers which it granted had been exercised. It was said that works, not only of a uselre., but of a mi•chievous character, were carried on. Whou fault was that? (Hear, hear,) Was it not the fault of the gentlemen at presentment sessions? It was said that oth, r works of a useful character could not be found. He (Earl Grey) did not believe there was any part of the kingdom as perfect but that some useful works might be found and undertaken. He believed if pro per care had been taken, that useful works might have been found. One came of difficulty in working the act arose from requiring more works to be done than was ever in tended; another reason was that it was brought prematurely into operation. It was well known that persons were ad mitted into the work. to whom it wee not intended the act should afford relief. It appeared that the fishermen of Cove and Ballycotton It ft their business, drew up their boats, and went upon the public works, thus diminishing the supply of food, and taking upon them that labour which was intended for others. The workmen employed on the Shannon navi gation also left their employment for the same purpose. (Ilene, hear.) Whose fault was this? (Hear, hear.) 'Wu it not the fault of the gentry of Ireland? He felt pen in making these observations,and in casting blame on the gentry of that country; ut it wan necessary that Pula meat and the country shorld know the truth. (Hear, hear.) It was a grievous misfortune to Ireland that she had no middle clam, whose services would have been most useful in working the machinery of the system of relief. But that was not the fault of the Government. In consequence of the absence of that machinery, matters have been thrown on the Government with which it wan impossible for them to deal. (The noble earl read an extract from the Report of the Board of Wor'vs, which went to allow, that it bed been impossible to carry out the theory of the system of relief, and that, in consequence, ditties had been thrown on that board which it was physically impossib'e they could per form.) If in working the Bill Government had received more co-operation, it would have been recoessfal, He was compelled to may thus much in defence of the Govern ment, but he had abstained from dwelling on the wor-t fez. tures of thecae; he could have carried it much further, but he had said enough to account for the non-sumss of the measure. It was expected that more efforts would , have been made to increase the amount of private employ meat and improvemert. What was celled the Million Act, although it had not succeeded in Ireland, did succeed in Scotland, and the aunts obtained under the act, weft ap plied to the improvement of estates and the employment of the people. With regard to the formation of depots by the government, for supplying the public with previsions, when the hones was in possession of the papers moved for, they would see that the government had done as much as it was prudent and righ t to do. It was most important that nothing should aye been done to interfere with private trade and it was necessary not to open depots till the last possible moment, because distress prevailed most in Ireland at the end of the summer. The mercantile transactions in earn, too, were carried on on a gigantic scale, the quantity of Indian meal alone en'arel for consumption in the year 1848 being 4,800,000 quarters, while &tents were employed in every quarter of the world to purchase corn. If, therefore, the government had attempted to become purchasers in op position to this agency, they must have established one at once most expensive and inefficient. By not doing so the quantity they could buy, without disturbing the market', wee most carefully distributed. If there was one thing more likely than another ta be heneficial to Ireland, it was the creation of a chute of retail dealers, and if the go vernment, by becoming dealers, had cut up that infant trade, thew would have done a eerie= injury. On the subject of emigration, after much consideration he had come to the conclusion that for the government to undertake to find means to carry all emigrants across the Atlantic. was to un dertake a task which they could nor execute. In ten years the number of emigrants was 687,000, and in then last year they amounted to 110,000, who went to the British colonies and North America He moldered, without any inter ference on the part 'of parliament, the tide of emigration would flow much stronger in this than in preceding year*, and to North America alone he should not be surprised if the number of emigrants in the present year doubled that of the last. This and the great expense were the grounds which induced the government to pause before they undertook to convey emigrants scones the Atlantic; but what they could undertake to do WY to provide the requisite information for them on their debarking in the colony, and to facilitate their future prompreity when there. Under this system and with this encouragement emigration had gone on to a very great extent. This was the system to which they proposed to adhere. Lord lIONTEAGILE thought the defence of his noble friend of the conduct of the government unnecessary, as that conduct had not been attacked. He altogether denied that the condemnation of that most mischievous act that had ever disgraced the statute-hook, the Labour-rate Act, involved an, condemnation of the conduct of the government. His noble friend had said it had been effectual for its pur pose ; but had it been effectual had this the only act which gave the government an unlimited control of the public funds been effectual for its purpose ? Look at the reports from fikibbereen and other die. .by 014 THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, JANUARY 26, 1847. 'tricta in Deland for the answer to the question. I One geettd defecate( the, set was, 'bat under it the Curate era imp halted te the efenettnelgns of robes,' 'thong* It atm - Mut , Irpland aboueded in Ands, which wink ta ,thatet in ihis Mont*: His wide .frieud's • .of the law Was quite ieson-iateut with ire proposed weed; ifit were mend, why was It *the set aside ? As eo the statadMet that the &Uwe of the set was attribu table teethe landed proprietary, he maintained that there was 'no part of the United Kingdom in which its machinery would not have been at'ended with the mink disadvantages. Having explained the course pursued at presentment ominous in Ireland, the noble lord took ooca'iou to refute what, he maid, was a very grave misrepresentation of kis conduct as chairman of a special sessions in the south of Ireland. He had been accused of sending a vast main of presentments to the Board of Works, rather than jiver the responsibility of considering and selecting from them ; hut the fact was that that step had been taken against him opinion, and enirely at the instigation of the officer of the Board of Works, who had been consulted upon the subject. He rejoiced at the intended measure of emigration, although he felt it was attended with much difficulty. He feared that the intention of the government to assist only on the other sid would limit the emigration to the better deem. It was desirable that emigration should extend to a clam who, there was every reason to suppose, would prosper in Canada, hut who also would advantage Ireland by emi grating, and unless great care was tak. n as to the clam of persons to whom assistance should be given in the colony, the great advantage of this element of improving the condi tion of Ireland would be lost. The MARQUIS of CLAN RICARDE would not at that time of night enter into any defence of the unfortunate Lsbour Rate Act. But the noble lord (Monteagle) had misunderstood hie noble friend (Earl Oret) in supposing him to nay that bill was good in itself. What his noble friend had said mu that good would have been effected by the measure if the circumstances had remained the Palaces when It passed, and ifithad been carried out in the spirit intended. It mustalso be conedered that that bill was only brought forward mone of many measures for Ireland, and not as in itself a remedy for all the evil, of that country. And that the act might have been carried out beneficially is proved by the fact that it was so carried out in some parts of Ireland. The Million Act had failed because it did not apply to tenant& for life ; but then there were tenants who did not hold by that tenure, and to whom it would apply. But he would like to ask those noble lords who condemned themes of the government what were the measures which they would have substituted ? (Hear, hear.) No one had as yet suggested one word as to what would have been a more effectual remedy under the circumstances. The paper, were then ordered, and their lordships ad. ourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, JAN. 23. The Speaker took the chair at a raw minutes before four o'clock. --.... FIRST WEADINO. I .—The Cheltenham Waterworka, the wolree. haraptoo Baths, the Shropshire Union Railway, and the Norfolk, &c, Railway PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS.—The folloViOg — pet — iiiOr7e;rerepreternted :—Prom Pet. worth, for an alteration in the law of settlement; flour brewery at Bury St. Edmund's, for the abolition of the penaltk. for ruing woo- Imre In breweries and dleitill,ies; three pedtlorm from Lone hire In favour of a ten hour.' bill ; from an officer In the Bengal Artillery for the cortiederatirm of his donne ageing the Krot India Company ; from Brldport, praying the government to take speedy Stain for re lieving) the diatom in Ireland. vtan ItEADINGS.— tee of Sugar in Breweries and Dietillerice Bill, the Irish Indemnity Bill. NOTICE., OF MOTION, —lnd Colton.—Mr. Belorrr to-morrow (this dry), to more for a committee on the program of the cultivation of cotton in India. NaTra;;;l Gullery.—Mr. Mont toanerrow (this day), to move an odderes to the crown for a copy of the minutes of the Waters of the National Gallery for the last two Criscore.—Mr. Wee his motion on the subject of Cracow to Thureday week, the th of Februst7. Poor Lem ametissiowers.—Mr. Immo Thanday next, to more for • select committee to inquire Lido the cower to which the poor-law commiraioners and their suaistants draw op their reports • also into their treatment of boards of guardians; sad as to what cos: Did the late Secretary of State for the Flom Department had over them ; and oleo into the effeets produced by the poor-law to lowering wages and thereasing crime. The tate Se' erettery of State Jr the Home fkpertawM. Yr. Feaa.tee gave notice that on Thirmlry nest be should make certain charges against the late Secretary of State for the Home Department, affecting his character as a minister of the crown, and as a member o(the Houma( ClentOolla British Trade aria ekins.—Dr. Bowan.* to-morrow (this day), to more for a return of the onlinanoes which regulate the British trade with Chilli. . . The e.4apthel Seredrom.--hir C. Noll Yß to-morrow (thin dal ), to ask the Secretary of the Admiralty whether It is the intention of the government to emplor any portion of the Channel squadron in carry ing eorn for the we of Ire la nd. CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AT HONG KONG. Dr. BO WRING inquired of the Under Secretary of the Colonic whether any answer had been received to the com munications made from the Colonial Office u to the inflic tion of corporal punishments by the police courts at Hong Kong. Whether any steps have been taken to prevent the infliction of corporal punishment, whether by flogging, baa tinadoing, or cutting off the tails of the Chinese, when they have been unable to pay pecuniary floes. Whether an ordi nance circulated in the Chinese newspaners (No. 10, of 1844), has been brought to the notice of her Majesty's govern ment, and obtained their sanction; such r,rdinance appearing to authorise whatever barbarous and brutal punishments may be Inflicted under the Chinese Code, or according to Chinese urges. Mr. HAWES said that the head of the Colonial Department had written to the governor at Hong Kong, oho stated, in reply, that the eimumstances were, that a Chinese had been found guilty of felony ; he was arrested and a rescue was attempted, which was attended with eon riderable violence. They were all, however, finally cap tured and taken to the police-office, where they were fined five dollars, nr, in default of payment, sentenced to be sub. ieeted to twenty strokes of a rattan. They were also c:b- Jected to the lose of their tails. (Laughter.) These were the simple facts of the case. As to thequestion whether the government had sanctioned the ordinance providing such a mode of punishment, he would say that it was extremely difficult to find any other sufficient punishment. Imprison ment was entirely out of the question. The ordinance was, therefore, sanctioned in the year 1844, not without a great deal of consideration. He was bound to admit that it was quite impossible that they should permit the criminal law of China to he incorporated with the British law. An inquiry was being held into the whole criminal code of Hong Kong, and he would assure the hnn. gentleman that it would re ceive the particular attention of the government. CONDUCT OF THE ARMY ON THE SITTLEJ. Dr. BOWRING saidthat he arishedto make a statement as to the report which existed as to the conduct of the army on the banks of the Sutlej. Great public attention had been given to statements which, if true, would reflect great diu honour on the army lately engaged on the Sutlej. The bon. member for Bridport, in putting a question some time ago to the President of the Board of Control, stated that it was reported that certain men had been in the habit of hanging and murdering the Sikh prisoners who fell into their hands. The hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Control repudiated such a charge, and said that instant inquiries should been made into the matter. On the first day of session the hon. member for Bridport again put the question to the Secretary of the Board of Control, and it was found that there was no ground whatever for these statements. The report originally appeared in a local newspaper, and was circulated by a body who called themselves the Peace Society. He held in his hand the fac-simile of a letter which he had received from that society, which purported to be a letter from a soldier in Indic to his father, and on which the statement was founded. It stated that this man was • pri vate in the 80th Regiment, and he himself said in it that he was not only a spectator but an actor in these horrors. He did not at all do bt that this man's statement was false, for nothing en horrible as was represented could take place in modern times. Mr. F. MAL LE said that he was glad to be in the house while the statement was made, and thot he was also glad to state that he entirely exonerated the gentlemen to whom the hon. gentleman alluded from being the wilful circulators of the false representation in question. They had, no doubt, acted on their belief in the truth of the letter. He Sent a copy of the statement to Lord Gough, who imme diately held a court of inquiry into the matter, and the sol dier stated that he never wrote such a letter to hie father. He then made one statement to his father, and another in direct contradiction of it to the court of inquiry. Its bad since forwarded the letter to Lord Gough, who would institute further iaguiriee. EXEMPTION FROM SERVING ON COMMITTEES. The SPEAKER then read a list of members who claimed exemption from serving on committees, on account of age. STATE OF IRELAND. Lord J. RUSSELL then said he had never had so much need of the indulgence of the house as on the present occa sion; but be felt, at the same time, that he bad so little need to oak for such indulgence ; for he felt sure that the house, from the temper it had already displayed, and from the sense which was entertained of the magnitude of the calamity, as well as from the danger which there would be of interposing any party feeling in the consideration of these subjects—for these reasons he felt sure that he need not ask for the indulgence of the house, but that it would be voluntarily bestowed. (Hear, hear.) In considering the question of the state of Ireland he would first proceed to lay down what was the order in which he wished to treat it first, be would refer to the state of that part of the kingdom where the calamity had occurred; secondly, he would make • general statement of what had occurred during the parliamentary recess—what bad been done in pursuance of the acts of pirliament of last serio—how far those measures had succeeded; and then 'he would proceed to state what the govern ment proposed to do for the present emergency. After baring made that statement ho should proceed to the state ment of other measures for the improvement of the general state of Ireland. and to lay the foundation for permanent improvement. (Hear, hear.) He would also mention some other subjects which had not yet been so fully considered as to have measures founded upon them matured ; and be would state generally the view which the government took. In conclusion he should move for leave to bring in two bills, one to render valid certain acts done under the autho rity of the Lord-lieutenant of Ireland, and secondly for the improvement of private estates in Ireland in pursuance of a treasury minute of 2nd September last. In proceeding to consider the state of the country, he would take the language of the report of the Irish poor. law cam mission, and ask the hewn to infer from it how great the 1 1 calamity was likely te be when • total failure of the potato crop took place. In the lbw repeat of the commission—a essahrion formed claw el cateiderable authority who were Mammy awl I argositted with their country, the esemikefeweee mk: _ . . The rat wale~ imp pordedok arid ad rdsopt whom dr raft rk ddardeddlrdorre damn wadi err irilsardshost tram la Trio dierls ct the dm it be MM. airerli=l* dram so driveled la re Ur mil palsy an Mgt NM re adolandid ' would b e better to give food than to be paying away money., which would be considered as a useless expenditure. The poor peeple are disabled from executing task-work. Their bodily strength is gone. and fist y have not power to exert themselves; the works will consequently he left incomplete." The opinion of the goveroment, previously to the receipt of this; letter was, that the system had become so vast, and the , destitution and want of food had so greatly increased, that it was desirable to attempt some temporary scheme by which same of the evils which now met them snibt be mitigated, and with PO vast an expen liture of money more effectual relief might be afforded. The govern ment had thought it desirable to form in electoral districts relief committees which should he empowered to receive subscriptions, to levy rates, and to receive donations from the goverment ; and by these means they should pur chase food, estaolish soup kitchens in different districts, and so far as they were able, distribute rations of food to the famishing iuhabit tots by sub-committees. Moreover, they should not require, in other cases, the indispensable teat of work, hut that the labouring men should be allowed to w trle either on their own plot of ground or on the farmer's ground, and thus tend to produce food for the next harvest (bear), and perhaps earn from the farmer some small wages to ea able them to support their families. The government had communicated this echeme to the Lard Lieutenant, who had consulted the various officers of the Board of Works and the commimariat department, and he was glad to find they were prepared to consistsr it favnurably, and they (the govern ment) should endeavour, first, by means of preparatory mea- ' sures to be taken in Ireland, and next by a bill to be pro to parliament, to carry this arrangement into effect. here wax a person in this country who was long conversant with the public works of Ireland, and who had won the esteem of the gentlemen of different parties in that country. by whom the operations would be superintended—he meant Sir John Burg tine. (Hear, hear.) He was now Inspector General of Fortifications in England, hut. having obtained leave of absence for three months, he was prepared, instead of devoting them to relaxation, to devote them to the service of the country. (Hear, hear.) He would be in communi cation with the Lord Lieutenant, and would have the Co operation of Col. Jones, the officers of the Board of Works, those of the Commissariat Department. the head of the poor law commission, and the head of the constabulary, all of whom were conversant with the state of affairs in Ireland. But, in pr posing this measure, with a view, if possible, of affording a more efficient mode of relieving those who were now in want of food, and, at the same time of snaking use of a great number of persons for the ordinary purposes of agri culture, they must take cere, and the Lard Lieutenant was prepared to take care, that, in substituting thin system for the public works, it should be made as easy of transition as poserihle—(hear, hear)—that no rude dismissal of great numbers should take plate at once. (Hear, hear.) The Lord Lieutenant stated (and it was a general complaint) that, with regard to many of the roads, it would cause great inconvenience if they were abandoned He would, therefore, make suggestions as to the mode by which that difficulty could he obviated, and the roads made complete. (Hear. hear.) With regard to the money which had been expended, and which was now being expended, a clause had been made that the whole of the burden should not be put upon Ireland. There was no doubt that the mis fortune, be the remote cause of it what it might, heavily premed on the present proprietors of Ireland. He thought it right, therefore, that the whole burden should not fall on the Irish proprietors. They should, therefore, propose, at • future day, that arrangements should be made by parliament by which in each succeeding year, when the instalments became due, upon one half being paid, the other half should be remitted, taking etre that the whole debt was kept up till that half was paid. (Hear, hear.) This pro vided that one half of the whole charge should be upon the government With regard to the firemen] part of the qua. tion—with regard to the sums hitherto issued—they were issued out of the balance in the Exchequer—sat of the Cen solidated Fund—and neither had there been, nor was there to be, any contemplated issue of Ezehequer-bills to meetthnt demand. (Hear.) But, however, it mute at the same time be considered that when he made this propoaitinn to parliament it was placing a considerable bur len on the finances of this country—(hear, hear)—and, in placing this burden on the finances of the country, he felt himself disabled from making a proposal which he otherwi-e would have gladly made, but which he thought would be hardly fair to the people of this country to propose, because, when it was said, • Let the burden be bone by the consolidated fund or the imperial treasury and exchequer," he must always recollect that these sums were not to be granted by government or parliament without the most serums consideration—(hear, hear)--that they were sums derived from the payments made by the people of this country : what they paid on their soap, their sugar, their tea and coffee: that it was this which formed the surplus by which they were enabled to come to the as sistance of Ireland. (Loud cheers.) And while he thought there was every disposition to do everything that was liberal in that respect, they must consider, in justice to the people of this country, that they bad their own difficulties and their own privations, and that it was by their hard labour they earned its due reward. (Continued cheering.) With re spect to another part of the subject, namely, the advances made under the authority of the bud-lieutenant and the letter of his right hon. frond, those advances having been made to persons who wished to carry certain improvements into efftct ou their estates, they thought it fair that the terms proposed in the Treasury minute of the Bth of Decem ber should be altered, and that the re-payments, instead of being made in 10 years should be made in 22 years. As that was a beneficial employment of money, it would be paid up in the same manner as any advances made under the act of last session (as we understood.) He had now stated what be thought they could do for present alleviation. There was another proposition of a somewhat doubtful character, but which upon the whole they thought they were right in recommending to Parliament—nantely, to advance a sum not exceeding 50,0001. to be repaid before the 31st of De cember, 1847, to enab le proprietors to purchase seed. (Hear, hear.) He did not think government should make the ad vance to the tenants because there was danger in introducing ' government as a lender of money to a great number of small cottier tenants. I Hear.) In stating these measures he wished at the same time to declare that he could not and did not expect to be able, by any measures which govern. ment might propose or parliament adopt, to ward off or to prevent he effects of the awful visitation under which Ire land suffered. (Hear, hear.) It was not in the power of man to do away with the effects of such a calamity. (Hmr, hear.) Nor did be think that any one would impose on them so impossible a ta-k, or ask them to make so pre sumptuous an attempt, were it not that he hail read in one of the newspapers an address, signed by the Marquis of Sligo and Mr. Moore, both most respectable persons, both well entitled to deference on the part of their poorer country- men. (Hear, hear.) They wrote to their fellow -country men—having, as was said, travelled through 27 counties, in order to make their proposition popular,—earnestly entreat ing them to met at Cutlebar, on Monday next, " to demand from parliament such steps as may insure an immediate, a constant, and cheap supply of food for the people of the c ninny during the famine which surrounded them, and the famine which impended." He owned he was astonished at such language. (Loud cheers). He was astonished tint at a time of famine, men—educated men, who ought to lead their countrymen—(hear, hear)—should tell them they were to " demand from parliament such steps as may insure an immediate, consent, and cheap supply of food." (Cheers.) That was • task which it was impossible for them to perform-At was • task which they ought to tell their countrymen the visitation under which they suffered made it impossible for man to perform—(hear)—that it was a ta-k beyond all human power, and that all they (government) could do, was itt some mode to alleviate the condition of the people—somewhat to lighten the dreadful calamity which &Mined them—to sane a part, hut not to imagine they could tarn and convert a famine into plenty. (Loud cheers.) But what surprised him more was, that it so hap pened that at that Castlehar, where the people of the sur rounding country were requested to meet, there was a union workhouse which was capable of accommodating 600 per sona, but which at present contained only 130, the doors being closed against any others, the guardians saying it was impossible for them to levy the rates. (Hear, hear ) Amongst those who had not paid the rates—who had not given that money by which the famine might, to • certain degree, be averted, were some who, it could not but be sup pled, were fully able ta pay that wltich waa due from them. (Hear, hear.) But there was a most unhappy tendency, which he hail more than once remarked, to recommend to others to do some vague and impossible duty —to call peon government or parliament to do something, the practica bility of which had not been considered—to weer sonic benefit that might be visionary or impossible, while the certain practical duty of paying rates for the sustenance of the starving men, women, and children in the neighbourhood was totally neglected. (Loud cheering.) While government did all that it could do, they most be as sisted by those who bad local duties to perform. By many -very many—resident proprietors in Ireland those duties were performed. (Hear, hear.) They gave their time and money for the benefit of their destitute countrymen. (Hear, bear.) He would now proceed to another part of the sub ject. and he trusted the house would give him its attention while he asked it to follow his propositions for those other measures which he thought would be beneficial, not only now, but permanently beneficial for Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Let him observe, in the first instance, though they might unhappily be diverted from the oMervance of general prin ciples with regard to those matters, that they should observe those general principles as far as p stable, and that those ge neral principles prescribed this much with regard to the in terference of government—that this interference might bs given in three ways, which, as far as possible, ought to be kept separate and distinct. A government, with the sup port of parliament, might give assistance to individual pro prietors for the purpose of improving their private properties; secondly, it might assist in public works by loans and grants for works of evident public utility ; and, thirdly, it might enact that relief should be given bylaw to the destitute. (Hear, hear.) Now, those these modes ought to be kept distinct; that was to say, where money was granted to individuals for the improvement of their property, security should be taken that it was not to be spent extravagantly in Paris or Naples—. (bear, bear)—but for the purpose for which it was given. Beyond that government should interfere as little as possible in the private use of the money—( hear, hem)—for instance, the borrower should be interfered with as little es possible in compelling him to employ tenant classes of labourers, or to conduct his works in a certain manner which government might lay down as the best. (Hear, hear.) Such was the principle of the first measure which he was going to propose. It was a measure founded on various acts passed at different times, as the drainage act of last seasion, and the treasury minute of the Ist of December. By those acts and this minute it was proposed that where the improve ment of an estate by drainage or the reelanntian of waste I lands, would produce a certain improvement valued so that three -and the interest tb res o f Lu°Thr repayment advances in twenty-two years. They proposed to take the terms pro panel in the Drainage Act, and to extend those terms to various improvements. The technical difficulties contained in that act wookl be done away with, so es to enable the proprietors of Ireland to borrow money for the improvement of their estate., at three-anal-a-half per cent., to be paid ia twenty-two years, or in a shorter time, at the option of the borrower. According to thin plan, a great deal of employ ment would be given to those who would otherwise be deeti lute, and great advantage would he given to the peoprietors. They proposed also with regard to public work., to consoli late end emend the Drainage Acts. According to those acts, if the majority of the proprietors of a district so derided, they might contract loans for drainage, and in that caw the drainage was und.rtaken by the Board of Work., and earned on under their superintendence; but that wee drainage of a general nature, not like that which Leak place in private eget... They proposed, therefore, to coneolidate and emend the Drainage Acts. They proposed, likewise, on the same princi plc, to undertake the reclamation of waste lands. (Hear.) It had long been atoted in various reports of commissioners and commutes of the house, and in the work. of eminent writers, that in many cases the reclamation of waste lands would produce profitable ernp:nytuent, and cultivated land of great value. It way said by Sir It. Kane, in his interest ing work " On the Industrial Resources of Ireland," that the estimate of 4,600,000 acre* of waste land, which might he reclaimed and formed into cultivated land with a profit, was not exaggerated. Now they proposed to devote 1,000,0001. to this purpose ; and if the proprietors did not themselves improve them by the measures which he had be fore spoken of, and upon getting loans, thy proposed to purchase them, if, in that case, the proprietors refused do sell, they proposed to compel them to do so. (Hear.) The government would take and improve the waste lands which were below a certain value, namely, thew land+ which did not let at more than 2e. 6,1. an acre annually. It wee pro. jetted that land of this nature was only to he reclaimed as far as general operations were concerned : that roads should be made, and a general drainage effected, but that none of the cultivation of the land alleluia be under the direction of a public depart. anent. (Hear, hear.) They proposed that the reclaimed lneds should be divided into lob, which should not be below or above a certain amount. He did not mean at present to fix the amount, but probably it would not be heathen 2.5. or more than 50 acne 'flee proposed either to sell or let the land to the tens its for a number of years, with a determination that it should likewise be sold at the end of the term. They would either let or sell the land as they thought meat erpe dient in the particuler ease. He expected that a great num ber of persons who hail heretofore been driven to de perste= and crime in consequence of the competition for land. would , thus he able to earn a competent hying. He thought they would thus raise a mill class of proprietors who might be very industrious and independent, and form a valuable clam of society in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) He did not be. lieve that small holdings were an evil in Ireland, because in the county of Armagh, and in the whole of Ulster. where the holdings were small the people were comfortable as com pared with the province of Munster. He therefore thought that, by the adoption of this plan, great advantage would be obtained. He did not propose to bring immediately before parliament all the measures which they had in contempla tion for Ireland, but he was atating the measures which he t tought calculated to promote the improvement of Ireland by public works, and enabling the proprietors to obtain the means of improving their estate*. He now came to the third elate of measures, which were simply peer relief fur tee des titute. At first, when prior-laws were about being ihtto. ducal into Ireland, they thought it better not to confine relief to any particular class of men, but to confine the relief to workhouses. But that was not out the experience of the pre sent state of things; for it was their opinion formed on a general view of the state of Ireland that the jewels., ought to be extended more than it was. ( He should therefore propose to bring in a bill for the more effectual relief of the deititute poor of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) They proposed that the guardians of the poor should be entitled to give relief, in or out of the workhouse, at their discretion, to the infirm, and all who were permanently disabled by infirmity. (Hear, hear.) This would enable them to make use of the workhouse in its proper function, as a test of destitution.- (hew, hear)—and in the second place it would enable the to relieve that unfortunate class of persons at their own homes, which would be more satisfactory to the feelings of the people. (IL ar. ) They propceed, where the workhouse was full, that the poor-law commissioners should have power to direct the guardians in each case to relieve the able. bodied out of the workhouse. (Hear, hear.) Ile was ef opinion that this power should be most etutionsly used— (hoar, hear)—and that this workhouse should be put as a test to the able-b 'lied ; but at the mane time they had sees there were eases where the poor-house was insufhciant, and did not afford sufficient accommodation. (Hear, bear.) In cases of urgent necamitv, they proposed that food only Annie be given. (Hear, hear.) In each eases the relieving ofscers, who would he appointed, would have power to give in or out-door relief, until the next meeting of the board of euareians, when pro. vision would be made for such caws. (Hear, hear.) Such, therefore. was the nature of the meaner. which he proposed immediately to introduce. There were, as he had stated, other measures which had been, and were, under the cenedenition of the government. With respect to the fine clam of measures to which he had fileided, for enabling pro. rectors to make a better use of their own property, to in crease their capital, and to improve their estate., the govern ment had under their consideration proposals to facilitate the sale of encumbered property. There were two modes by , which the might be done. One mode was fitunded on the general principle of the Copyhold Act, by which, as every one knee, private bills were pawed every year, under which individuals Were enabled to sell certain portions of their estates in order to pay off incurnbranees. (Hear.) That principle might be carried into effect by a general bill giving power to cominimioners to examine each eau, and by another bill by which, instead of one private one, many private bills might be sanctioned by parliament. An other mode am/Reece to accomplish the same object was by application to the Come of Chancery. lie could not at that moment pay which mode the government would finally pre fer, bat they had both under consideration. The government would likewise propose a hill by which those tenures in Ireland which were long leasehold tenures renewable for ever might be csnverte,t into freehold. Ho must say that, generally speaking, there was nothing in the present unfortunate state of Ireland more injuri ous than the mode in which property was held, by various tenure., and under various condition, in that counter. Very often, the proprietor in chief had only a small rent-charge on a very large estate ; another head landlord having a great part of the property, there was a lessee under him, and a middleman under the hisses ; se that it was almost impossible to say upon whom the dieing of the property rested. (Hear, hear.) It was a matter most worthy of the attention of parliament, to (*wider how those tenures might he simplified, and how they should, if posse hlt, connect the proprietor with the tenants and the la bourers, in the manner in which he waeconnected with them in England and in Scotland. (Hear, he ir.) It WWI to the want of that connexion that he attributed the fact that, in many teats in which frightful instances of destitution in bind had reached the ears of the public, when inquiry had been made who were the persons who ought to be made res ponsible for that destitution, or to be called upon for ite relief, it was found impossible to fix open the partial with whom the obligation rested. (Rear, hear.) It was not so in England—i • wee not so in Scot land, where, in the most distressed diatriets, the present moment, they found preprieton who, though their endues were very much encumbered with debt., hat yet such sympathy with their tenants that they were ready at once to make themselves responsible for large advances of money by which they might relieve them from the calamity which was then impending. (Hear, hear.) Under the head of public works came the subject of fisheries, to which the government had paid attention, bet upon which he had not at present any definite statement to make to the house. In the ciente of the last autumn there were many enquiries made for the purpose of obtaining de pots for salt and for canine, it having been found that when there WWI a vast amount of salt, and where a much greater amount of fish might have been caught, the people utter' neglected this resource, and threw the fish on the land. treated that the government would introduce a measure ou that subject. There VIM another subject upon which he um also unprepared to make any statement to the house, bat upon which he knew large expectations were entertained in Ireland, namely, the very important subject of emigration, (Hear.) lie confessed he thought that although parliamene might assist emigration, the extravagant expecte , ions that were entertained *loon that head could not possibly be reale& (Hear, hear.) It was stated by_ Sir Robert Kane, and Magee meet truly, that if pauper families were removed they could} never be removed in such numbers ae to produce a sensible effect on the population. (Hear, hear.) He did no • believe that private or public means could, according to the ordinary amount of emigration, produce ouch en effect as to enable . the remaining population to earn a greater amount of wages, There was this also to be considered, that if, by some extra ordinary effort, you were very much to increase the ordinary amount of emigration ; if you were to attempt to go very far beyond the average emigration of a year -to convey, for instance, at once, a million of persons acme. the ocean—the question would not simply be whether or not these persona should be in Ireland to compete with other labourers, but you must also consider what funds, what means there were in the countries to whirls you removed I them from which their sulmistence could he ob ► tained. (Hear. hear.) They might be sure that if by means of large additions to the public burdens they were to ' convey hundreds of thousands of persons to the United States of America, the United States would justly complain that we had cut our paupers nn their shores to he main tained by them, when such maintenance rested at a primary obligation upon ourtelva. (Hear, hear.) In like manner, he felt convinced that if they attempted to introduce hun dreds of thousands of persons into our colonies, the mai grants would find the markets glutted; the labourne. instead of obtaining as they now did a fair amount of subsistence, would all be competing with one another• and beggars would. be wen throughout the towns of Nova Scotia and Canada. is considering that subject when he held the seal of the cola ni.l department, although he confessed he was then disposed to go further than he did, and the. the obstacle WWI rather the stet, of the finances than any iedepottition to deal with the outlive yet he did think that the best mode by which emigration could be promoted was by takingeharge of the emigrant, not at his present place of abode, nor at his port of embarkation, but at the port where he should disem-• bark in Canada, conveying him then to some field where there would be a market for him. Accordingly, htt proposed a grant, which had since been continued in different mune, sometimes more and aometimeslas, by meane of which many' very poor families had been conveyed from Quebec ter Montreal, from Montreal to Kingston, or some of the interior parts of West Canada, where they had been placed in a po sition to earn wages, and had been comfortably settled. The amount of emigration which had been thus going on in the past year was very large. In the year 11146• there went to our North American colonies 31,000 persona. to the United State, 38,000, making a total of about 90,000. In the first three quarters of 1846, . . In le not ( then met with at Misreads( tit three mike. m In England ; are but kw towns of sa trade to create such a elan. The clergy of the various podelthisolli old tie proprie tors, Hen resident, are hi away eases as sash at news, with each other, or with the Helios paggidatlm aped ponied tprestamta that goat 'airtime was 'equerry In Hord to do Menthe thee bow which we mold avail enrollee of list solstence. dodo moot with ieg.ird to the cosalthethey, tem the frequent coldione in which they are placed with the people ; and prroctil l antheritice can ecareely be raid to mist. In the third report they stated: - - • - • - It appear that in Great Britain the Kele uhural families conetitute little more than-e fourth, while la Ireland they constitute about two. thirds of the wsok population; that there were in Groat Britain, la 03 1 , 1 . 02 . 22 ! agricultural labourers; In livitad, 1,13 1,1 lb, although the cultivated land of Great Britain &rootlets to about 34,130,000 Anna and that of Ireland only to absent 144100,000. We than final that there are in Ireland about are agricultural labourers for mere two that there ore for the rime quantity of land in Great Britain. It further appro.. that the agricultural produce .of Great Britain la more than four times that of Ireland; that agricultural wage. vary from Gd. to IF. a day ; that the average of the country in general is about s)d.; and that the earning, of the 'einem, come, on nu acreage of the whole elms, to from 2s, to 2.. Gd. a week, or there aboute fur the year roam. Thus eircunistanced, it is impeadble far the ablebadied, In general, to provide against sickness or the tem absence of emplomrol, or again.' old age, or the destitution of t heir widows and children (lithe contingent event of their own premature demur. A great portion of them ere ineuilleiently provided at any time with the oommonen necessaries of life. Their habinitions are wretched hovels, several of • family tamp together urea straw or upon the bare ground, sometimes with a blanket, armentnea even without or much to cover them; their food commonly canine of dry pntetom, and with lb se they are at Conan scantily supplied as to be obliged to stint themselves to one spare navel in the due. There are even instamee of persons reingdriven by hunger tonekentenance in wild herbs They sometimes gets herring, or • little milk, but they never get meat, except a to t ttlirist n roat ti n N t l i tas . le , r . , ing or, Shrovetide. Some go the hanat, others in sen r ch of em ir glig e ntent land with the same view. The wives children of many are cm:mica. ally obliged to beg ; they do so reluctantly and with shame, sod in general go to • distance from home that they msy not be known. Meath ancy, too, is the role Icemen of the aged and impotent of the mime claw, in emend, when children or relatives are unable to support them. To it, therefore, crowds are dnven for the means of existence, and the knowledge that ouch Li the fact leads to an indis criminate giving of alias, which encourages idleness, imposture, and general crime. That was a description given of the labouring climes of Ire lan I in times of comparative plenty, and it might be imagined what their condition would be when on the brink of famine. Su" had been the case during the present year, during the visitation of a calamity which was perhaps almost without parallel because it acted on the very bulge population of nearly 8,000,000 of people who had gradually in creased to that amount. It was like a famine of the thirteenth century acting on the population of the nineteenth. (Hear, hear.) lie would then proceed to state the course which was adopted during the taut year. When parliament met pant year it was apprehended that there was about to he • great scarcity of potatoes in Ireland, hut there having been a plentiful crop in the previous year, the supply last year was not very deficient, but parliament took means very early in the session to supply food fur the destitute by giviug employment on public works. Under this law presentments were made, and upwards of 200,0001. were expended. The ! presentment to the 31st August was 1,372.0001.. and the ex penditure of 476,000/. was recommended to the Board of Works, and what was actually expended at that time was 290,0001. Before the end of the sesiion, upon the recom- ' mendation of the present government, • further act wen' passel by which the lord-lieutenant was enabled to require the barony sessions to m die presentments for public works, and, to check extravagant expenditure, the whee of the money wile to be repaid. Soon after the session closed so great a desire existed in Ireland to hold presentment sessions, and presentments were made for so great a number of public works, that it was necessary to reinforce the Board of Works by the addition of two gentle. men. Shindy after, the oountry gentlemen and pro ton began to complain that the works were useless. He not, however, attach any very great importance to that objection, the object being to combine relief with • certain amount of work ; the productive nature of the work seemed a question of secondary importance. In this country, sometime ago, when great diuresis existed, the poor-rates were increased from four to five million. a year, and he did not think there was any great amount of productive work. (Hear, hese.) Nevertheless the lord-lieutenant, with the consent of the cabinet, sanctioned • plan by which the sessions were allowed to present for productive works; and that bad not been adopted lone before a desire was expressed for a town-land division. The general average of the whole town lands of Ireland aid not exceed 350 acres, whilst some of them were not above 100 acres ; and it appeared to the lord-lieutenant that it could not be beneficially adopted, as it would not admit of the proprietors and sem piers of the town lands bearing their fair share of the burden. It was next proposed that such proprietors and oc cupiers should be obliged to employ a certain number of destitute, no as to expend the whole of the MANtII3I , nt which was made upon them. He did not know any thing that could hr said on that subject more than bad been stated by Mr. Smith O'Brien in a letter to the landed proprietsca of Ireland It will, however, have the effect of still further pauperizing the labour of the cou ntry. To elucidate thin remit in the simplest manner, let ea =mow that there arc 100 labourers Ina district which belongs to two landlord*, whose income is equal, and one of whom now employs SO independent workmen, whilst the other does not employ • stogie labourer. It lent present nerverary to provide for the maintenance of 50 unemployed labourers. Thew are now set to work upon the roads, end the expense of their maintenance We upon the two properties in equal proportions. If the proposed Wan he adopted, the improving landholder will naturally de nte to exempt himaelf from talltklll, without emplaning [OM! hands than be at prevent requires. Thin he could do by dbl. missing all his present workmen. There Ironic, then be 100 morphia labourers In the district. An thew mast be maintained at the expense of the two propertim, each pro praetor would eventually be compelled. in self-defence, to employ 30. The landholder who originally employed thin number will thus creole taxation, without engaging more labour than he re quires ; but his labourers will mire to he Independent workmen, chosen and paid by himself, and subject to hin own control. They will he sent to him by the relief ecesunittee of the district ; they will be placed under the •uperinlendkace of an expensive staff of stipend. ampointed by the board of woks, and will be paid out of the funds raised for the relief of the poor. A syetem not very direimfbar to this was acted upon in Srsrreral parts of England previous in the Poor-law Amendment Act of 11131, and was fouml to predator effect, the mat demoralising !o . the labouring population —panalyaing a I the ' ' " .... • energy of independent latear and indisidnal enteriier, and in many respects operating Met unjustly upon particular clams of property. He conceived these observations to be perfectly justified. The experience of England was that which he described it to be; the labourers sent by the parish upon a farm were not like the men whom the farmer employed himself at his own choice; they were idle and improvident, and any farmer would rather give 10s. a week to a labourer of his own choice than 6s. a week to one of the useless men sent to him by the parish. He thought, therefore, the pl.oss pro po•ed so order to remedy the evil of having so many persons engaged in unproductive labour were full of danger; and they should have done a pernicious thing if they had confounded inch pendent labour with poor relief, and by way of making that relief more efficient, had permanently injured the great and important eine to w hieh those labourers belonged. (Hear, hear.) The land-owners and proprietors who were in favour of this alteration, found great practical difficulty in putting into effect the instructions of the Lord-Lieutenant. When they came to an electoral district, and found two persons ready to adopt the system of reproductive works, three or four utterly refused to become responsible, or to have any money advanced by the government for that purpose. They found, therefore, that their operations, when so encum bered, were useless. This did not, however, though a serious difficulty, diminish their exertions; but their operations, though very great and extensive, had not led to such a complete sub2tiette for the system of establishing public works as was generally expected. As the I plan went on, the number of the destitute persons increased, and with them the difficulties of providing emp'oyment for such a number also increased. In the present CAMP, as the business of the Board of Works went on. the officers found that they had great difficulty is obtaining trustworthy and efficient persons to act under them. The labourers Man frequently unwilling to undertake the tasks allotted to them. More than one person who endeavoured to teach them to labour was maltreated, and some were in danger of their lives. At length, this difficulty pressed itself upon those en gaged to such an extent that the belief prevailed that it was impossible lot any public board fully to discharge its duties, and to carry out the works. The number on the establish ment had been gradually increasing. The total number of persons employed as officials under the board was, at the present moment, 11,587; of presentment., 28.5; and the amount sanctioned up to this date was 2.410.2161 The number of labourers had increased from 30,135 in September last, to 440,687 in December. In the last week's account they were stated at more than 480,000 ; and, at the prevent tame, he did not doubt but that the num ber amounted to half a million. It was reckoned that five persons gained a subsistence for every person employed. Hs could not say that statement was correct; but taking it at four persons, there would he upwards of two millions of people supported by this plan. The expense at the same time must be enormous, and from an estimate drawn up it lararal that i,e te co e n xiseine 6. in the , Itifettnedk 168,0001., Detmb.:rd wthase fourth 164,0001. So far as they 'were acquainted with the past 3 weeks of January, theexpense of the first week was 157,0001. ; on the 9th January it was 1.56,0001. ; and, on the 16th, 172,0001. ; making an amount of 556,001. for the month of December, and 48.5,0001. for the first three weeks ofJanairy, and it was estimated that the Whole expense of this month would be between 700,0001. and 800,0001. It was impossible that this expenditure could have taken plume without great concomitant evils attending it. There must be great evils under any circumstances, hut there had been peculiar evils attending it, arising out of the present state of Ireland. One of them was the difficulty of procuring efficient labour from the persons employed. When the works were com menced it was reported to the government that the labourers were seen idling on the road, and doing no work. These reports led the Irish government to the determination that task-work ought to be introduced. Considi cable diffi culties, however, were experienced in effecting that object. Much resistance was made to the introduction of the system, but the Lord-Lieutenant remained firm upon the point, and task-work was substituted for idleness. Many evils sprung up out of this system, for those men who became accus tomed to task-work, earned considerably more wages than any mosey wages that had ever been paid by the farmers. Many of them earned from Is. 4d. to Is. dd. and Is. 10d. per day. The result was, there was a strong com petition to obtain employment upon the public works, and farmers found a difficulty in procuring labour to till their land. This evil, however, was produced by the conduct of the farmers themselves, for many of them who held twenty, thirty, fifty, and even sixty acres of land. obtained tickets from the relief committees, and removed their sons and labourers from their usual occupation of tillage to place them upon the public works, and they received the money which ought to have been received by the really des titute. He would now read part of a letter from Colonel Jones, who was at the head of that department, to Mr. Tee velyan, dated the 19th of January last "We are premed by our officers for instructions as to how they are to act; those which they have received to regulate their conduct are no longer applicable in the altered state of things. They are besieged for relief, and if they refused it, they were held up as the stumbling-blocks in its way. In my opinion it I _