The Express. — London, England, 1851-03-21 00:00:00

IMPERI AL PARLIAMENT. 1110L'ISE OF LOltl)S.—TuvusnAT, IfAacu The LO/A0 • PAPAL AGOUE4sI.I7I.—By the Karl of MALMES. DEBT, hum Ilvintingdon; Lord STANLV:Y, from , Derby, plan' in Lancashire and in the county of Ross; Dort ITZW 1 LLI AM , from several plates; the Martini , of LANSI/OWNY., from a plate is Wiltshire; the Foul of IIENBIOH, from St. Mieliaers, Pimlico; awl the Earl of WINCIIILSY.A, from 34 'daces ; against papal ag- CoarniT B.avra. By laird I.YTTELTON, fawn the eonstit , of Wert:der, Stafford, and Salop, praying for a fatale equitable ailjestment of the county rates. eosvireavion or rota C L EW:T.—By Lord LYTTEL. TON, final IVoielville, in Leicestershire, praying for a coo aeration of the LWAL CHARM AT Ultitsinnt..—By LTANLEY, from the mayor, alderinen, and Ilidgeints ofdso, on the subject of • lord charily. An littel.Tertal. I.l:"TrrTl.Oni. -By the Earl of ItY, from the county of Wilt., and the Earl of WINCIIILSEA, Iron Sleaford, complaining of agricultural distress mad praying for protection. PAPAL AfirillES:slON. The Earl of WINCIIII.SEA, on presenting numerous petitimia against papal aggression, mid he hoped the gen- , tlo'mca who attended their lordships house to report their proceedings would, if they noticed the feet of his pre senting the petitmes, mho aild--and he said it without di.- respect to the petitioisers—that he really felt that it was d little it: wo Une to lay petitions on their lordships table. If the prdestanta of the. country int. soled to stand firmly by then.: printievi which, he thouctit, now animated I nearly the whole of her Majesty's aulqict., they must, one and aIL light the hattl, of protestantism at the neat Foetal election. (Mar, hear.) lie had seen petitions by sl emiu mils,auil sign , .1 by nearly two million. of polite, against the grant to Maenooth, which were treated in their house a. o, much waste paper. lie wished the pro..tants of the Kingdom to understand that if they want. d their MR., ne , to base it, proper effect, they must no. the power whieh they petee......11 in returning members $o the. other ho.. of parliament. It was through the me diumrepresent:did s alone that the battle mud be Painlit, (w h. n the neat dissolution of parliament took plate. (11 , ar, hear.) AIiIIIeULTEItAL PROTECTION. The Marls of MA1.V17.1.1.311 and WIN. 1111... V.% presented petitions from Wilt. and Lincolnshire roinplaining of dis tn.... and the latter noble lord said that he had heard the statement r.'.. ally made I,T Lord Word. house an to the im. conilition . of the is Norfolk with topsider alr;e surprise. Lord W4/11EIll/USE adhered to his statement. 11, hail male minute inquiries int , . the t, and he was eon. i el that there an. s a fair alft'w.ru amount of empl o y- I mod. It was trip• that weekly seam • hail been diminished iw s , ..nie instant e. t'. 7... lint the rom..poding reduction in ri, of fod had li ao (madder:J.le, that t labourer was e in a better o iseelition mn tlian hi, hail Inali w ith higher wages and higher Prim , . Lord SONDES, asa resident in Norfolk, ilia not question the ai oraey of laird Wislehouae's statement, but a. far as he ionlii see the labourers in that country wore in a state of EAFFIIt WAlt. Earl filtKl hid on the taltle certain papers reLiting to the Kaffir air. 14. ir ksdoolo adjonen , d at a quarter after aii o'clock. 110 U W. 1W COMMO)IB.—TnumuAT, MARCH 20. The S tuo the chair et 4 e'elaek. PUBLIC BUSINESS. EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CIIARTER. Needier. of rtitior. hAtilir been I.n.ente , l, including in.iny INA the rated Atter...ion I•leel.-4.die.,1 Titler Bill, Oil which subj. ct thy petition. daily become more Mr. A NSTEV prarmas , ..l until th • 3r.1 of April the mo tion, loftier of which in h.. name, for imilerinq an inquiry into the anise of Ilritiah India, preliminary to the 'vacua' of the nunlwupJ charter. I'ASSMNGEItS ACT. Mr. S. Ilv.iuthirr gave native that mt March _'7th he wound move for a committee of inquiry into the Art COrItT OF CHANCERY. Lunt J. IItIIsSELL itmtivokell till March 27th the mo tion nhieh ntutntiu hi. umte rel..trn• to the Collet of Chan- t. TV. NIKIICANTILE M lit N A cT.—STILIKES OF EAN' EN. Mr. I•ItINSEP asked the right him. gentleman the Pre sident of the bikini of Trade whether be would cement to furnish the him-, w ith eopies of the eurresponilenre In twe/7 ties- 'beard of *limb. not the Marine Ireard relative to the workilig of the M. remitile Marine Art, and also ...Irvine he nimbi lay on the t lige id the house topics of the memorials of the vearnen. with the answer• of the Imant ? Mr. IA DOID:111.1111.1 •in no objeition to furnishing the house with the fullest infomi Mon no this ,tlin. 4 4 . t. It would, however, be useliso to print all the memorial., fin they were all of pwriofly the sant chumter. DIiNMAILK AND Some e enervation having taken place beta , en Meson. Vr.u. r, W. Patten, anti J. Falis, on the subject of the Lei" re•f. r Waterwork. , , Mr. I:11.141.:11ART asked the question of whii.h he had Riven legit, -when the papers connectuil with the affain of the littehi. • and Ihnanurk will be laid upon the table of the house ? Lord I•ALMEIISTON replied that it was net his inten tion to lay on the table any turtittr papery in reference to this subject. Mr. U IttlU II AltT begged then to ask further, whether in the: eorreqemilinei. then' Ifni lean any negotiation as to the meeission to the crawn or Denmark, ome iu re•peet to the suervoion in th , P ? Lind eon.' deal had passed in re gard to thee. point. But her Niajt sty's goiernment had confined tireurselves mtrietly to the mediation which they •n•li rtook ; which was a mediation for the purpose of bpi Ming about a restoration of peace between Denmark and th e (l e nnanic confederation. Tear, hear. T II F. (*APE COLONY ANI) .• E W ZEALKNI). In answer to questions put to him by Mr. Anuermev, Mr. HAW I'S said that the omen rt toting ti, the Kaffir abiturhateces would • laid On table in the comae• of the evening. With regard ti the papers relating to the con stitution for the l'ate• c doily he hail only to give the answer to the honourable gentlem:m which he' hail uffared when a similar tita•stinit was Salted tier SR.. that the cornspondenre was not :,;4111 oh, amt that Until it 1141. i CanUlllct - 31 it could nod iimi esety be mid before the house. As to the petition" and menionahl front th. t'ape, they. of course, would be beguiled in the oillwr p qsv. r.la.nn to that colony. t. ith regard to the New I.ealand ordinances, he saw no reason why they should Ise prescut...l, a• primased. ems MUM but particular and special sloe kWh 'Oa could always he obtained. NEW ItItUNSWIIIi. lu reply to Mr. ii,11:111"..K, Mr. 11 AWES rail the general principle of no elective council hod been +zoo.? ionell with nand to Ncn I.l..unswitk. siE.\?l I'U .\CSl'li.\l.ll. I,trd NAAS a.lel the Chant-01u( of the Exeh,•guer, purmaist to node•, in refenatre to the t.tatetniott made by him th it flu• tmulem vomited for •tomn enu muni.•atum with Awdralia wen uniati..factory, w hethior the govrnuro•mt have tiefore them now, as otilsr (non respevt. ahl. mom. W toaahlit.h and maintain that service fur the amount mi ring from p 061.4e0 only, without any gnat from the Ezeh,qui.r. The 4'll ANN.:I3,OIi of the EXCITEQUEII replied t►at the wt t nte anhjem was at pri•ent mulct agotiation, and that to aitawcr the question would at pc...sent pre statism. MONSTER BARREL ORGANS. w ith our awn F o r e ertheffiee for the iesue of paesporte, the i tablithed in this country ; they slereented spiritual Wee*. charge for all ramparts to be uniform. Passports be con. : rence with the civil rights el iodiroioar, Goa the introdc ia oftioris sr in 0 (re du l ls, JUII MIKIS sidcred to be on general principles ostlers thing., but so the ; Cod of ef • te f • Imillat . 'l' t i e i n Here we a ntin n e i ntal nate wuuld not dispense with them, all I they hied in the petition of them Roman cetholie primes d do wie. to maleavour to make our own arrange- I evident': id the tyranny that Cardinal Withinan came te w men c te " with the leut possible expense met inaeaTC.! esecute in England. After that, it was Cain to tell them nienee to ourselne. He would brififelt, in the first 1, that they t rre not a d ie wa s, tittnitthertrelig,toabeate ay place, the equalisation of the price of English panaport. at ; Rumen ea . lic., as wel l Ile had ti . and independencei nine and sll over Europe; and, secondly, be would tug - 'of thin protestant nation. eear many reason gist the establishment of an office or department for the assigned which had induced the Pope to t aggryssion. issue of paseporte. The noble lord then m . oved an " Ad- Cardinel Whenian had alao gmeei them t reasons. Ile deem to her Majnety, praying that she will be graciously said that the measure " we' based upon the fallowing con- I Pleased to cause. en inquiry to be made whether improve. 1 sideretions : first, that previous to the act of 1817 the catahndo menta might not 11.• effected in the systems of grantee: peen- lies were acid under the pressure of heavy penal laws, pone to her Majentvo suletem trarelline in foreign states." enjoyed no liberty of conscience." . Now if this amereseion ' Lord PALMEtekTos agreed with Lord Mahon that it was to be deprecated as an unjustifiable act, the re aa allaYal of was much to be desired that foreign governments would thee penal laws ought aleo to be condemned, for Cardinal abolish the system of passports, which, vezatioue as it we., Wiatnien admitted that their relaxation was one ofthe did not accomplish tie• objects fur which it was devised. comes to which it ntieht be attnbuted. (Hear, bowel He had made certain experimental arrangements in the With regime to the cardinal's, statement that they had en foreign office with the stew of Imenine i epeeist: awl in. joyed 110 liberty of conscience under these lowa, the petition ereseeiug facilities, and if they anceeeded , he should he of the priests of Beverley showed that they enjoyed more happy to extend there facilities. Ile, however, ,ejected to liberty: of conscience under the of system then they the motion, inasmuch as the subject required we other in- meted to do under the authority of lasso enacted by the holy quiry than the secretary of state could institute, and he synod. (Hear, hear.) But Ceadintel Wiseman went en to might possibly adopt mot of the suggestions of Lord thy, " emend, that the religious orders had no houses in Mahon. England." Now, what had the rel i gious orders to do After wane remarks from Mr. Bright, Mr. M. Milnee, with farm matter ? Ile wine! tell them. They \CCM to be and Mr. Urquhart, the v and the police to enforce the decrees of Lord MAHON withdrew his motion. the apal; anal all those instruments of terror and per- EMPLOYMENT OF PAUPERS IN IRELAND. suasion which they knew so well how to wield, were I Sir W. SOMERVILLE appealed to the hon. member for to he put in practice• by them. (Hear, hear.) . 'rite etude Tipperary (Mr. Scully) to withdraw the motion of which he nap's third reason was, "That there wee nothing approach had given notice, for returnseof certain correspondence on the ins to a parochial division." But how cold a parochial subject of the employment of paupers in Ireland. He (Sir diviniou be necessary fur them in a country where they'! W. Somerville) wished the motion postponed until an op- only numbered 500,01.1 4 1 persons? (Hear, tware Fourthly, l put tunity were afforded of communicating with the depart- the cardinal stated that the increase in the number of their went to which the motion referred. He did not know that chapels and mananteries was a reason which had iuduceell there would be any objection to produce the papers, but the l'or to adopt this policy. But the bill before the the y could not at present cuter into the merits of the house did nothing to declare it illegal for bishop; und areh. matter. bishops to asniene authority, or to prevent their exercise of Mr. SCULLY considered the matter of no much import- delve steel powers from the ACC of Roane. (Ilene, hear.) It ' ante to the owners and occupiers of laud in Ireland that he did teething to prevent the convening of aynods, or to im could not consent to weepone it. *I he hon. member then pesle the enforcement of their decree,. (Ulcers.) Having drew the attention of the house toe number of circumstances referred to the cennn law, Mr. Newdegote went on to connected with the present condition of Ireland, end the obs.rve that, having said that the cardinal looked to refusal of the Poor Law Commissioners to allow the board of the religious orders so one of his principal weapons, he guardians to employ the paupers in remunereting labour. now begged attention to the increase of the eon's:Ms. He moved for " copies of all correspondence between the In 1817 there were 31 in this country; in 1848 Thurles !stud of guardians and the poor law eammis-inners there were 38; and in DOI, only four years after, there in Ireland, between the I st d a y of Januar y and the 10th were: ea, being an increase of 19. Now, lie did net think ' day of March, ISil, relative to the refusal ley the poor law there was anything in this that was particularly at commissioners to allow the beard of guar tan to increase tractive to them as protestant', or any mown why they the employment of the inmate's in remunerative labour. alveoli' rejoice. The house would not be guarding the And return of the number of inmates in the different work- liberties of' all the subjects of this country properly, unless houses in Ireland, specifying their ages , bet ween seven and they pawed seine law for the inspection of these places. fifteen, fifteen and twenty, twenty and forty, and forty and (Clicem) Ills boa. friend the member for the Univeraity upward., the clamant se zes, and the number of able- of Oxford had presented it petition from a gentleman, who bodied, and aged and infirm." was lately . a immix: of that house, respectine a yming lady Sidi. GREY did not think that there would exist any who was immured in one of these prisons. lie allied el tea objection to the returns moved fur, but it would recur to the this circumstance, 'seventh the hon. member for Dublin recollection of honourable members that notice of the (Mr. Reynold-) had taken an opportunity to rise station had only been given on ':ueselay evening. When in his plate. and to state that Miss lalbot was the node*: hail been given the Secretary for Ireland had not in that convent as a postulant. He had authority written to Dublin to a'sce'rtain if there veralel be any ohjec- front Mr. Craven Berkeley for stating distinctly that lion to the returns, and it was impossible for them to have the original statement was true. The hon. member an answer to enable them to proceed with the III,MIT that for Cork (Mr. l'ower) shook his head ; hut Mr. Barkeley night. Ile therefore moved that the debate be adjourned had had it from MISS, or Mr.., or herself .erigaO till that dee week. laugh)—the superior of the convent, (Hear, hear.) The mutant of Sir G. Grey was then agreed to w ithout a Here wail a cue where the girl was mpanited from thou divition. to whom she was bound by the tie. of lendred and ateee. SUNDAY TRADING PREVENTION BILL, flora, and yet where her legal parent, the Lord Chtheellor, On the motion of Mr. W. WILLIAMS the following were the keeper of a l'roteetant Queen's conscience, was utterly nominated the select committee on the Suntley *trading impotent. (Cheers.) There was one of these places at Prevention Bill: Mr. W. William s , M r. B. Wall, Mr. Atherstone, from which a nun once escaped. She was Anstey, Sir De L. Evans, Sir W. Clay, Sr Bella, Mr. taken back ; but from that time no one could tell what had Alderman llumphery, Mr. elienterrnan Mr. Waklev, Lord lICCUIIIC of her. One thing, however, lie did know, and It. Grosvenor, Mr. Aleock, Lord 11. iennox, Mr. bankes, that was, thattat 15 cwt. of iron stancheon% lied ou t home- Mr. Ker.haw, ardour D. Dundee diately . (Cheers.) These places were entirely me lt. TITLES ASSCMI'TION BILL. cleated from the world—persona lived in then, died, and The order of the day fur resuming the adjourned debate mouldered away, without inquir a y, fur no ono ever eve en this measure being read, heard of a coroner's inquest en convente Mr. NEWDEGATE said that, in speaking to the motion therefore, he . thought they would not be doing fur the Tema reading of thin bill, he did net do so with their duty unless they passed an act that would any feeling that he wax able to give it his very cordial sup- open their tranaietiont to the public cyc. The min port as roleulaseel to effect the great object w hich the coon- nasterica in like manner, increased from Bin 1847 to 29, try denidereted, but because in all the discussions which and this wits a sufficient reason why they should be place d had Laken place on the subject one part of the question had under some kind of surveillance. (Cheers.) By the act not met with due consideration. Ile alluded to the riggers- of 18'29 these religious houses were required to be re• then which hail been committed by the agents of the Pope gistereel, and he would ask the noble lord how it was that on the 'sovereignty and civil indmiendence of this nation. he had never (maimed an act which he eulogised so high) 1 110 contended that the most dangerous and uncou- (Cheers.) Mr. Newilegate then drew th• attention of the stitutiond portion of the aggreesion was that on the temporal house to the increase of the Jenuite since their petronage sovereignty of the crown and the civil indepen- of the present Pope. They were truly denizens, or rather deters' of the nation. lot them remember that, outlaws, of the whole world, and their constant effort had although the Bishop of Rome had taken on himself had been to overthrow every government, whether me 'ma to establish a hierarchy in this country under the plea that nervily or a republic, that was et all indepandent, or that' there were amongst us a large burly of adherents to the refused to be subservient to their theism.. (Hear.) It had religion of which they deem hint the head, he had sent a been said by the hon. muncher for Cork that they had the ordinal, a privy councillor, a prince of lin chureh, here, merit of laving first asserted the sovereignty of the people ; whose especial duty wet to preserve and extant his tem- but the hon. member forgot that it was the .1 ',suits Emanuel penal authorty (Hear, beer). Having ohnerv. tht Car- Sue nd Mnthe who were the instigators of Saralee to 1 d p ind Wisem i ui, as legate n (Were, WAS armed w i th a greater wasa.e a ireite e hi. kine, or he would not have bilked about the pewees than Dr. Cullen, and adduced proofs of the loyalty of the order. (hear.) The people of Switrerland, exorbitant authority attached to the &Ike and rune • where the prottetants were two-thirdsof the population, hail tem, of a m waited, Otte Of which was to labour stremounly uppotha the introauction of the Jesuits; and to his utmost to " recover the goods of the theprotentent people of this country viewed them with equal church," Ole. Newdegate said it was no matter of suppo- dislike. (Ilear, hear.) But many of the Roman catholicsof anion that the court of Rome retained documents to Switzerland bad participated in the feelings of their pro misee: the title to all the property the Romish church teetant fellow-countrymen on the subject ; and he doubted evil' hap in this kingdom ; and when the • house rentera- not that such was also the CUM in Englaiul. (Cheers.) Ile land that that compendia at one time trim one-third to entreated the noble lord (Lord J. ituasell) not to conceive out-half of the property in the kingdom, they would see the that the house and the ninon would be satiated with his object of these men, and particularly when they Termite- measure. If be allowed acts to acquire a prescription, they hered that the aim of the Jesuits was no lean than absolute would he held to confer u right; and when once that right and universal dominion. It wax a long tile , since there was acknowledged, it would become obligatory M(1011 their had been a cardinal in England, and he yen- Roman catholic fellow-subjects. (Hear, hear.) lie spoke ' teed Us 'onset that it was contrary to the coustaution and the aentiments of peaceable men when he said that they to the lawn if England that this temporal tether of a foreign wen• willing to base this aggression met by the law: hut if potentate. should be permitted to made in England. We it was not so met they would take the matter into their own I hail three other cardinals in England, Cardinals item hand.. (Cheers, and cry of "Oh, oh !") fort, Wolsey, and l'ule. Cardinal theinfort was the brother Mr. KNOX wished to expeeto lei% owno indi uct of tho ernatem and of Henry VI., and was entitled by his rank and his re- that of the protestant" etante la' teeter e cond latienvelap to the king to a seat at the council board. But government. Ile helped that whatever measure was passed leuliameut pained au act to authorise hi, stridence in the would le: extended to inland; fiir if she were left out of the country, and presiding that when any matter touching the bill it would tse a breach of the Union. (Cheers.) n•latious between the kingdom of England anti the Batman Dr. POWEIa denounced the bill se a persecuting mea see were di. cussed in the council he amulet mire. (The sure which run counter to the great and glorious principle hon. gentlemen read an extract from the Bth roll of of re ligious toleration. The l'ope, he oleervol, had no parliament in the reign of Henry the Sixth to that means of exercising temporal authority in England, and in .fret.) Then with regard to Cardinal Wobey. At Ireland all secular interference on his part had been con the time he was created a cardinal the closest Mandy resi•ted by Roman catholic.. Unle"s the house was intimacy subsisted between Henry the Eighth and the ;stetsons" fur the spectacle of Ireland, which w,ec already It en WV. it was at that period that the l'ope conferred lashed into fury, relapsing into fictions, they would names upon Henry VIII. the title of defeitsorfilfri and it wes at bill fraught with danger to the peace, trunquillity, and beat 1 Henry V lll.'s inetence that Weasel RAI 111/ide a cardinal. intereen of the e mpire a t l a rge. Then came the cue of Pole. Ile was striven from England At this stage of the debate about a deem members rose because he opposed the supreme power over the church of together, chiefly on the apposition side of the house. The ' England being vested in Henry the Eighth. Ile re- eye of the Speaker was caught by turned to England in Queen Maryee time, as legate Mr. lIENror DRUMNiOND, who said he conceived that to reconcile the differences between England and ltniw. the question had been confined to a (.M1114..1111101 too nun The lent instance of a legate attempting to enter End - row, by sere ral hon. members who had oppose' the govern- I land was in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. The Pore meet measure. in his opinion tha eptastimi they had to at that time was very anxious to resencile England to (locum was nothing short of this: whather the Roman I the church of Rome, and he sent the Abbe elamitheini• catholic% should remain a tele•ratad sect under the spiritual ' And what .141 Elizabeth and her council do? He found in dominion of the Queen, or whether the Oren should be Cemelemee Iliatury that they tent to Him end warned him a licensed heretic under the spirituel dominion of the not to come. Ile had been respectful enough to request Pope. (bleer, hear.) They also had to settle whether Bey that lie might he Aliened, and the answer was that by an would have one-third of the population of this kinedone ancient law it was provided that the Pope's nuncio should under the pretext of religions developme - nt, to be governed act enter Englund but on lease first isleteineil, and an oath by a law unknown to the remaining two-thirds— a law which I she, taken tea he should attempt teething in England they cowed red paramount and superinr to c verythine, either prejulliciel to the king or the people. So the Abbe minium' or statute, which governed the country. Thisques elutigeoni was not permitted to cross the Chan- time would not be settled neither that night, nor by that mi. Ile (Mr. New &gate) wished her Majleta debate, nor by that hill, nor by a hundred such bills: but heal hail a council as willing to defend her rights. would probably outlive the lifetime of any of them. (Iliac, lie wished the noble lord, when he heard, not that a nun- hear.) Before coining to the main body of the Pope's army, cies with limited powers, but a full-blown cardinal, we. he should like to have something to S3ll with the skit-mine- Rhino to enter this country, and that a catholic hierarch)) ens that had been thrown out in tee Say of that battle, INCA "ISOM to lw formed, had sent to reelinal Winentan ant tepee i a jl y t i n , i dni n ,„,ph ers who e se et „i to stan d upon en told him that by the comm o n law of England he could not altitude superior to the:n all, and who asked, " What teeth he permitted to conth here. lusteed of that, he had been ti e 's it whether the dog eats the hog or the hog cats the perusittaa to go on for three months, and the consequence dog—whether the papist cos the prutestant, or the protein was • that the ultramoutene Party en the eel ~ i ~,,,,, taut the papist i Stand aloof from it all, and leave things were rongimulating themselves on their success. . But to take their own course." (" Hear, heer," and laughter.) he did not rely ou ancient p re cedent. alone when It was a pity these philosophers ha d not thought so some he said that the aggression was a violation nut two or th ree year, ago , when they „nac„,..ded to eerie, may of the LAM of this country but of international law, down from their height, sad I, meddle with a bill sflie• nettle lord in the able speech which opened this debate sent up from that houth, giving as a rcawou for —and weold that he had continues' in the spirit that had inserting a douse iu that bill which had offended •Uetass -I it ; if he had dune us he would have been at this the Pope, that they would not have him to send an element the mest puwertul premier ever known—he would alter ego to this country . as an ambassador. Instead of ' base 16.111051 his enemiee—atakieg an a member of time doing that, the Pope had now sent a piece of hinnalf pan p elle...time he believes! the noble lord would hale rendered lesiva sorporis, as a cardinal was described. Giese, hear.) teeth fame riess, and they would not have been in the posit Ile well now thew hew little reliant,• could be ph ia •d on t they were now in ; but the noble lord wear- anything said by a Roman eatholic m,thlwr of that house. toe to ly, after expressing his settee of the indignity ( Ohs.) lie aid not think the hon member for Dublin (Mr. *h.,. 4 to the ermine and of the insult inflicted on the iteynuldo was a bit more capable of wilfully deceiving the teeteen, had east down the reins of power, and when he house, c any- other a a iedsay n i c n r onghe.hu ntoa he really ito did not when nOtlielieit wax acted vwe,tivanao,him o- tined them it lead been in a faltering spirit, ill calculated self or that there was a difference between the court of Ro:ue and to the press set time—the noble lord iu that speech adverted to the pee:eon, by which catholic countrimituareled them- the church and bishop of Rome, that hon. member had distinctly denied it. Let him hear what Dr. OPliale, a wale s egeilest the Aggressions of the church of Rome. Now the ,use of the intrusion of a cardinal was most recent in most unexceptionableauthority,hadead before the education Pewee. The Pope appointed a cardinal archbishop of committee. lie said—" The doctrine and principles of the Kee nest...re in is 29. The Prussian coursed unlettered the court of Rome are not sufficient to establish the d o ctrine. i naattyr, and asked him whether his office included also of the catholic church. Vi'e distinguish between the court l' :Metall authority. His reply we. "only spiritual," lie o f Rome and the see of Rome. (Bear, hear) The court , as then asked tee take the oath of allegiance to the Prus- of Rome may be the scene of much were don and cabal, p em crown, and he refuses! to de so on the ground without affecting the authority of the ae of Rome and the decrees of the catholic church." How, after thin could Dr. newly he could not serve two masters. and that he had al- Wiseman assert that it was only th " lae: of thi. cavalr y elm taken an oath of allegiance to the l'ope. The ques- which drew a dintinction between the two, which : T em I tion then arose whether according to Pruseian law he could otherwise indivisibly and unchangeibly united ? Of all the be allowed to remain in the kined om ; and the answer of impostures put forward on While' of the Rombh church. the Premien council was in the negative. This decision this of the inseparable and unthanecable unity was the ,h,t, e l men see e e rt tee hi sent to hen• with which he left greatest; for that church bad been ar H t e i r n a u t all bi y h. c o hang n. was comniunieated to the cardinal, and the government the kings, . (lieu, hear.) There were also certain pro- always a i m i ng a ja,,,,,aed pawn. had beenwas inaudible saidthc in po t pe he ta. gal tsi l no fur oaeca or armies. reeding% connected with an Archbishop of Cologne, whog e i nn 'hatge eine refused to take the oath of allegiance tocry several nunutes t . It fleets or armies hail he ever had ? And yet he had contrived the Prutesian crown, and he was put under stem point . lie to do about as much mischief in Europe - as any gentleman reamer. But that was not a ease in thought if the noble lend had adopted such had ever done —( laughter ) — not excepting Napoleon and steps in the first instance we Memel have been in a post- others, to consider this question far more calmly. At present . got ;,11 who had cominanded great armies. 'the I'oPC had the armies he ever had, by whic h .we had this cardinal at the head of a whole eonspsracy of 'Sail effected so much mischief . l i e hodthe ti same priests agitating the country and using means for the dis- desi g n s, turbines of men's mind.. The was one attribute of a we - to gate to which he wished to call the attention of the house. unchanged and unclonge alee • tee der lance re ' ' was, him. The iulrocates of the Pope asked where was the , The house wished to prevent 'synodic:el action. He would attack, and said it was nothing more than a spiritual re tell them how to do it—exclude the authority which Fen 'synod canonical. It was established by the Council constitution or development of their hierarchical system. dared a syn I of Trent, that no national synod could be summoned unlees I How came the Pope then to sand a cardinal to this country, I a fortunately so long exempt from the presence of this sort summoned by • legate sided over by a legate a &fere. its decisions (creme and unless it was pre. lof gentry ? (Hear, hear.) Did the house know what, in null sad sold At the Synod of muck. the were the opinion of the Pope, a cardinal was to do ? In former Pope had times • a cardinal named Bouillon was taken measum to have it presided over by a mole:rater, on'of his e • exPaled from France who Was there in fact to carry out his decree . lie wasthen acc ount i 1 evil conduct; and in a letter which the not surprised that Vac iniests to the district of Beverley re- • that Pope at sl to the K ing of France, he declared coeed at the idea of being under the rule of Dr. Wiseman, that cardinal was superior to the law of the country,— which he thought might be inferred from the petition they' so soon as ecclesiastics received order' from the church they become exempt from all lay power, in had sent to him. They rayed that his eminence would I order treba subject only to the apostolic see. Would out ahcoiatc that foror of the canna law which had . been to; be CS- any Roman catholic in this country claim this huirrlium• wanted to know if the govemment in tended to take my sterol to put down those monsti r End a/mei the huge barn' organ*—(great laughter) -which now were daily wen sod heard in the streets. (Much laughter.) The paper* of the day contained uremints of the • veirlents which these organs eauveil, by frii.Mtiming horse% and, he enigiet sty, by fright• oing nova to. - (llauzhter) -and it was shameful that they should be to day+ 4. Sir U. GREY did not think the government RR* in poi...ion of any opciirie power for dealing with haw l owans -(lavmhter)- 4mt, on doubt, ma dangimius olntrue tinr in the street, th y would eirme under tke notice id the THE. VESTRY OE I.AMIIETII AND SI:NI/AV exemption for Cardinal Widee'WM ? (Hear.) Allusion I The s SPEAKER-The hon. member is himself st i tilt b y . of twhiethdfinarawtalahoufactheinOlo the! s a h n a d pe th i i n r d w e 1 1 1 c , s i ... s , i t t o L T . * i t i t x t a , i n n had loon inade to the eantinalla oath, and it wa. All quite ! a breach oaortler-(cheer.)-in now interrupting t. _ c lear whether they were obliged to take one or not ; hut it, member for Surrey! (Hear, hear.) I did not n-nture ) to p ti re . z o red f f ...(t g i r,L es a r t ,h r ea a rd hig ii i u „ t r f i r p. w ..t on an tottels; i r y 7 r ttle ii ra , i objection to tlae bill is-first, that it is en ceteweei of era. found M some of their authorities .: i l ent d l o so l e . s r. i . i m i t i te a fo u l . i , r d t . s . p i r a ini ot V . t a he aa h l on i h . i m m en t i n he a r ra f L u r r . Sci ( m H z. r, h ( , l . l i e r .a ) r, l ea rn % rely lowing words, literally Mandated : I t il l e. ,. .te co y a o r e:z a l f ire a es d in e t at a c . ho d pe , s uaa th ta at_hon (hear . ge , ti h t aa lem , e - m a po r ial li c e i .a ittr eb e . n e t a % ; ‘)_ an i ' .. l ,;a s a mnd f l . y .r , tl i i , a r t „, i , t a i d s . t t l a. i . .. , . i r t e y s. e y , ...sl an of . (Renewed cheers.) Now, lam at once met by that ee- Fi a l e l l a y r be t it h f: i m i t t . l a r r f a r e7l lt A and p o e' !o: a i lx t i i g m a l i c e e n f o h s:t re e:7 , l h e a an a b , l l i e on a s Sd a :l a l tts te r n and live,h I . e , ' took (l i t 4. , . . holy lord , and emceed' -ihear hear)-abetain from all expressions v a a l Li n Zo t •sc a - Iw :li ' n, arr Z t. ; g i n' eV. ‘... I n t t I 7.11- 6 Ithl delCeeSsle e and will fight (roe proptinotetroot) for their that were likely to hurt the ...cling, of We're. heers.) r a i re ous w eli a ffi la t ai n a lt r ) honour and etandMst ageing nu, with all my endeavour. Mr. DRCNIhIOND again rove to address, tan! ouse. _ i v‘ a .h th ic i l s i __ . , __ _ . ___ . and all my power." After a man had Liken that oeth, Mr. MOORE-I rise to older. (Low a l a aa t r. e .l epe i m it\ t i m e t . t fi t i o e i t i .i t i ef g re ia lttn ata is n a t f a ,, l . l „a ci a me D e n an t lsd in a ri . f .d r, ii.....n . v . i . ..,e ,1 1 , ,.,.. , , ,. ., ,, ,_ us would any one My that he rink! take another to the Queen? cries of " order," and "chair.") It is n He would n 0... to unother claw of gentlemen, the speetful to a portion of the member , of this house, but I I and if I had any doubt upon this meter I. noe, hew ightest doubt that there new r utilitarians, who said , " What is all this to us ? or how air it id out of order in any Christian aseembly. (Loud . , ile w t e h n e tert sp ai eec a h aha uf o the Solicitor-Geueral, 1 e titii.t, can the apmeintnient of these bishops affect our civil or cries of " Order, order, chair, chair.") e religiousliberty ?We as de not kor require protection The SPEAKER-The hon. gentleman is out of order, will of Ireland vros a matter bearing e tupon country the pe of merase 11111 er go" aved against them." (Hear, hear.) But did the mem lames (Loud cheers.) irnportanee than the bill which we are 110 W shoo -Ong. co me ti ask for protection ? I/id the factory children coma Mr. Duestetoon again rose to speak. to ask for poitectium ? Did the poor girl who was locked Mr. GRATTAN-1 call the him. gentleman to order- (Hear, hear.) Ido mit thinhat i ha. beenal l o i i . i.;l lie ii . ny up for the ieurpose of being starved or whipped to death, (loud cries of "Chair, order," and " twee, hear ")-in con- menilier in Mitt debate. 1 I r .. . i iitine y g a gsrei f n . it i a , i \l aj .. that the prieste might clutch her money -(ole, ..11)-res sequence of the improper expressions he bee lewd-O . chair, ty' e s Tinieters a t u hat in % re. Ati t n i i i s e i r. d ht, ..t. f , , , the c ' ;, ' l . w i n "jl quire protection? (Oh, oh.) Ilonourable gentiemen might chair," " order ")-and I have a right to move that these all et el, l of the i aegresseen, it e .0. lens oh," but these nunneries were either prison% or expreseinns be taken down. (s. Oh, oh," and " hear : ') a t: par,. affe: i t h eel k tiy) deal w i i i th re . , rs t il i a l i l:l:d e . a a :t!le of p ( a i pal t„at g ßaii..aa a, ..„.„. . d ! ! a : brothels; and hon. gentlemen might take their choice. an old member of this house, I tisk you, sir, if I (" Oh, oh," and confusion.") not Monter in taking this course, and if some of your pre- tinguished from that of Inland. (War, h. ar.) Ido think The Earl of ARUNDEL and SCRILEY in to order. deo:wore have nut elnetiouol it. Os Oh, oh," and with them, that if legielatium of thie kin at tempted, it Was alsolutely necessary that shod,' he leen- He had just come into the himse and heard the lion. mem- " Chair.") bier for Surrey assert that "nunneries were tither prisons Mr. J. O'CONNELL-I eectond the motion. (Repeated la.attii,elian....ri to e samg mbrace the whole of the Unit King braietingtothela.vilionleN.am. of . thelaii i i t he y l o li a ing i. ..l l o . l. ,... ilu aa t or brothels." ( Clamorous cries of " Hear, hear" from the cries of " Order" and „ Chair .") all Irish members.) Now, he wished to know if it was in Mr. DRUaIMOND rose. , ed order that hon. gentlemen should make such mocrtiosis in Mr. GRATTAN-I insist on my richt as a member of dint, then observe whit fell from the rally law that home in reference to Litho; who devoted themselves to this, house. (" Order, order," and great excitement.) Milker of the crown who him add:es-eel the how, the serviee of God he pursuing and endeavouring to attain The SPF.AKER--'fhe hon. gantlernan is mistaken in (Hear, hear.) It is quite dear that the eireelentenoo i n to the perfection of an bunion virtues ? (Hear, hear.) his explanation of the rule of the house. (Cheers.) The Ireland referred to by the Solicitor-General to hie sets oh on The SPEAKER mid that nothing that lead fallen from hon. member for Surrey ie entitled to use any expression a fernier evening, had nothing to do with tio , orris al of the lion. member Mr Surrey was intowident with the fro- he may choose provided it is not personally offansive to any Cardinal Weemen in Mi. country, awl the inolitien to stain of debate. (Conflicting cries of " Hear, hear," and member of the howe, or disrespectful to the house itself. organise a hierarchy inetead of a teureeiteolelie. (Il oi r, " Oh, oh.") (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Surrey woe not out hear.) What were the cinsumetanees which the "elicitor- Mr. 11. GRATTAN-I shall have a conversation with of order. (Rear, lour.) What I said womanly a. • matter General wens pleased to dwell mine ? Ile wee• eloised to the hon. gentleman immediately. (Cheers from the Irish of precaution, and was not intended as a reprimand to the designate the pereon eeleeted lynx the Pope_to 1., tile Roman member.) hon. menther for Surrey. (Cheers) catholic Archbishop of Armag an Italian in eie ',hear, Mr. DRUMMOND-Where ? Is it here? (Laughter.) Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose to speak, and continued on hear)-it was thus that he stigmatised him. N.t s aimed Mr GRATTAN-Oh also here. (Renewed laughteo) hi. tree Mr sometime, during which the ericaltrdt'e " Witte that, lie dwelt on the towel o' Thiele, as towteuting Mr. MOORE suggosted to the hon. gentleman (Mr. and " chair " were so loud that it woe inspowible to one of the principal nomns why leehlation was net Dmmanond) that the subject he was then broaching was hear what the hon. gentleman said. And what statemvut did he make? Ile said this bill W.na likely to lead to die agreeable feeling ; tool in hiS OPiniOn The SPEAKER-I must call on hon. gentlemen to sup- be efthetual for the purpose of doing what ? Thots were his the language of the hon. gentleman was not at all consistent p o et me. (Loud the I have eta, d that the hon. words ,-'s Veer could not have episeipal jurioliorrilt they with the dig of the house. (" Hear, hear," with cries of member for Surrey was not out of order, and I hope he could not intruder- the oinon law ; they eseilel not a - inlet° "chair," and "'order.") will be allowed to preeeed. (Loud cheering.) in synod and frustrate the decrees of the Mo p gi oil parlio- Mr. DRUMMOND contended hon. gentlemen had no right Mr. DRCNIMOND-I Was not out of order. (Hear, moot, unless there were !Ashore with tendon el titles, and whatever to interrupt hint by their exclamotions. How- hear.) I was. ntO reprimanded. (Hoer, hear.) But, if in that this bill would eft's-ens:illy prohMit." NOW, ehoove, by ever, by and by he w.nili nein to the great evangelical down itt territortal titles it is the dosigu of Mi. Lill to put virtues which were said to be advanced by these ladiew the heat of debete-(" oh, Oh")--and in eeneequeure of down the emeatibeed viihropecy of Deltoid, oe &too,. them (Renewed cries of •' Oh, rat.") The noble lord who moved therepeated and otensive interruptions-(hear. hear)--any of Me power of meeting in some , led the reasona,•igovil thino ha* toceped my lips which has given offeme t o en y is, that the pope, the spirals:a head of the Roman ee thacathol iccatholi c amendment (Lord Arundel and Surrey) asserted that he, in iielividuid-rilthougli I do not retract one word of the Sub- church, has plat',4l at tlie heel a epioeme c o nnexion with several other noblemen and eolith:men, lout,-stancthe ofey of the rc chuh tinned the Pope to restore the hierarchy in England ; and that eof what I have staid-1 beg pardon. (Che er... ) The church in Ireland n elergy men the Pope in doing so only complied with the. request of the leen gentleman then proeeteled with the remainder of his of Rome, where the hon. and loam ,-d a ent lemen catholie. of England. Ile (Mr. Drummond) never saw the Speech , . bet the temper of the hmoe was so warmed and ex cieel with the previous scene that it was difficult to hear de a ig aatea an It a lian ?flank. (Hear, b. ara; If this pentane referred to by the no,ble lord; but as he had said whet he Said. Ile was sl ,,, in;t . to say wthai bill be effected f. o tha n mirpow-I Heart the law of the so he would take it for granted. But he had in his ox- Solicitor-Gen.rid-I doubt whether his deseripti.e..aeravell rate, hut if his law Ile isouna--if his deo-Mit:on lo a .4 e -- session a petition signed by the late Lord Petry, ne well so he hall been inttorulited that Cardinal Wiseman had shown Thomas it Beeket for hie model. then I say that all that was done in MAI , in a:: eat in g the by several other mailmen and gentlemen, in which they Now, t h e d eat h o f Th omas a' Becket, cruel and unjus- Romilll catholic , to equality of civil rights No, ii. gothilio prayed the Pope merely for a subdivisi.ni of district% fur ecclesiastical yurposest, and the right of appointment of tifiable nit woe, but the end of a bmir seri., of con in importance meets:teed with the course which Vol: en , new chapiains. Now, that was a very different course from testo the object conondeil for being whether lure is seere to aske'd to take. Fair 290 peas, long b a f ore eithele. emenei that taken by the Pope. And what was the result? be Subject to the Mil power or not. Now, it was not a potion, there wee en organised einstegetey in Irelawl. Why, that the eleegy at present were completely dc[ n- little reinarkable that Cardinal Wiseman should have clunen Th..... aallecket for his moslel. (Rent, heat.) In (Clwers.) The canon law did preaail in Ireland, ennui dent on the bishops for subsistence; which would notlotted and undieturbed by our legielatimi, aid, whether what WM had this act of aggression been received Ms Cer ise the case were the. petition 'awarded by Lora l'etre and (Hood Wiseman 's followers? (hie of them says that the their meeting ow termed a synod or not, the Bowen the other gentlemen aulepted by the Pope. (Bear, hear) agitation to which it had given rise in this country " WWI but catholic prelates of Irelantl did usetenble, did tend. r, He (Mr. Drummond) had in his pilot's-solos a letter written , e passiona ere o the spin o I toped, th ' I •f''t f 1 ••• ho g he aharoas did come to a derision on all mattere which from Rome that very year, in which hes was assured that te • rated the Prete:omit Church of England as a "de- they thought affected the epiritual lithe - esti of the canon lew was pre pared and ready to be put into that country, and they publielied that whith lad moniacal system of three hundred years old." (blear, Itear.i the effect of a evnodical decree. Now, sir, I mud he per effect in England, and by which law the bishops became Were they always to lithe to throe things ? (Hear, hiar. absolute mmters of the temporalities as far as they poseibly , c/a .. hear . ) 'flitted, since Mi.+ quedMii protente itself to my mind in Was such language to pass wilt impunity . 1 / 4 ear, . could. (Hear, hea(.) Now this was what the new hies thee aspect, in reference to the hearing of the measure 'ftemper ems maim contain ; lettatelMen neretonam:' rarehy would do in Engine!. ("tie, oh," and laughter.) upon Ireland, shortly, very shortly, to retrace our policy The powers of the bishow were very great over (Hear, hea(.) Now, with regard to the remedies which with regard to that country. Having referred to, and (meted the private, as well as over their flocks, as a proof of which should be taken to meet this 11,....A55i011 t he had already hum the correspondence of Lord Lindenolerry, the hon. he might refer to the Earl of Shrewebtery's pamphlets. said that the prennit bill was not sufficient. lie gentleman went on bu say, that until the you. 1829 There wan the ease of the Rev. Dr. Mulholland, for in- thought it was both unjust and uncalled-for to there was no eoneeesion, Out n firm stand was made stance, who had to appeal to parliament, rind Dr.O'Finnon, include Ireland in the bill. (Hear, hear, hear.) on the penal rode. Lord Coenwallie, the great general, the suffragan bishop to Dr. )h cafe, who was dismissed fur But they Mould pass a law to prohibit cardinals from his Mg cone uerur of rebellion, hail at the union ea. heel a bold appealing to the King's Bench in 1837. (Hear, in this country -they should pees a law making all drools and large concession. Whet happenedin Mt ? Why, y. the hear.) Because : that bishop (O'Finnon) appealed to pa-sed under the canon law null nod void de facto. (Hear, conqueror in a hundred battles, " the forenvot tam, per the ring's Bench, Dr. )!'Bale precured nn order from hear.) They should pass a law such ae existed in Bavaria, ham, "in all the world "-he is firmeet in resistant... where Rouse fur his dismissal ; and adulated that he was His- prohibiting VOWS frum being taken by permits who went it Knee of duty iinpele him to resist -I mean ties Duke of Moot for appealing to British law. (blear, hear.) Now, into conveuts and imam:rico -(hear, hear)-and the law of We lingtun-in 1429, haviug put off eorieto•ien to the last whenever the encroachments or ambition ef churchmen mortmain Mould lee so extended as to present the clergy of moment, ie elelletereelell: with Sir Robert 1'e,.l ,ttel Lord were referred to in that house stone' hon. member all sects from naelaite any thine man of any wet. (Hear.) Lyailhuret, who for years had been the great was found to get up and assert that melt occurred only in Ile believed that they beef mine to each a state of things opponent* of coneteeion, on principle* es hich they the dark ages gone by. Well, he had taken some mein, to not only with regard to the Roman catholic church, but had timer hesitated to avow, and which tit, y defeuisnded examine matters; and he had then lyieg before him rz- with regard to the church of England and the church of it, this boost. with stale great ability -these men. I say then, tracts from the reigns of twenty-one Popes-(•• oh, oh," Scotland, that the y could go on no longer. The in- without any change of opinion., even avowing thot. they had an.l laughter)-extending from the year 731 down to stitution of monkery nail similar institutions might DM changed their opinion, yielded reluctantly to an over within a very few years, all asserting the same thing, have their use in former tiMe's hut their day had whelming necessity, awl made thow emu. ....ions at last namely, that they were lords paramount over temporal as passed by, and it was necessary th'at they should (Vase. which Lard Cornwallis thought it would be wise tee mike at well as spiritual drain. There was not a single sovereign Ile spoke not aline against tae_ Roman catholic system, fire the time of the union. (Hear, hear.) Neu, sir, was this of the Roman catholic church in whose life strung testimony he believed it was the tendency of all pried,. of every sect done partially ur keenly by these eminent lemon , : It was of that was not to he found. One of these gentlemen to domineer over the people. (Hear, hear) He mooed my good fortune to be woeiated with the Duke. of laid it down that any persons who denied his (the l'ope•e) in the view of Cardinal Bernho when he said " that he in- M ellingtun, Lord Lyndhurst, and Sir 11: .le.rt Peel position to be that of lord temporal as well as spiritual terfered in the concerto of priests with reluctance, for he on the tied oeciteion on which he r. 'wool and should he regarded as wild heads wed aa ia ie animals, a body found that they were guilty of all human weaknesses , and enjoyed pourer after the cone W ti o ie l ie d b ee n m a de, of satyrs, or members of the devil. ' (Laughter.) In a letter covered with dieholic el hypocrisy." (Hear, hear.) Did they ever heoit de. tu. Rive elbct, in Va., hoeulest, written by Dr. Doyle to Lord Liverpool, that bishop stool The STRAKER, after having called on Sir J. °reliant, si'n'e, to the new policy slab einennetaneto Ilea minion, it that it was obvious that these claims ache popes had tint their who rose to addr oo the house, vaea t ee l the c h a i r f o r a them to adopt? I forget who it was, but oe es one iai- In.i4 on the gospel or the state of society, but were to be short time, and during his abeence consider:Mk ezeitement served, on a flower mew ion, that the tend...nee. of Sir attributed to the zeal, ambition, ur avarice of the popes in was manifest throughout the h o use, in c o nsomme, of the Robert Peel's government in matter' , minting t.. reheieue their days of power. (Hear, hear.) Now, a remarkable incident which took place while Mr. Drummond wie ail- liberty was all shown towards the Catholies. I know not erase of that kind was to he foundiu Pope Boniface, writing dressing the hnuse. Mr. Grattan walked over toMr. whether the Probotant Mesenteric are so uneratattil as to to Philip Le Bel, King of France., where he addre;siml him Drummond and made some observations. Mr. Drnrummed, forget mine efforts se hich were made on their Mar I.) that " Bonifece to l'hilip Le Bel, greeting, etc. You, as our in his tuns, walked acrow the house and addressed Mr. eovenunent. I do not know whetter Ow lii -gat re' subject in temporal as well as spiritual matters, Ito" To Grattan. During the conversation, which was very brief, Chum.' Act is forgotten-I am sure it .mast not which Philip replied -" Philip, by the grace of God, King the Roman catholic members surrounded the hen, Member to be forget'. te-lieu it is mulatir4l.l. .me wootint of France, to Bonitliee, presuming to be Pope, little or no for Surrey, and appeared much exited. On the return of of a spa eh which was made on ll''• " moist greetinet ;-(" hear, hussar;' and laughter)--and it ran on, the Speaker, reading by my lamented friend the let, sir William " Yeu are supremely foolish. Hereby know that we are Sir J. GRAHAM rose and Saill-Sie t lam glad that a laualett. It was the mob:, se el let of parlionweitary .iratory not inferior to Volt in temporals." _(lien(, hear.) It had short pause has, taken place in the debate. (Hear, hear.) he ever made: it was his erotteet epoch, aid. -Oa , ! it was been said that the rope had no armies or fleets; but did I hope that nothing will fall front me which may in any his lest. (Ile ar, hear.) But what, 1 aisle, was tle• .seeSuct hon. gentlemen recollect that he worked by exconsinunica- way tend to disturb the gravity of the debate or the calm- of the Billie of Wellington and his colleagues: Did they tam? Let them remember the terrors produced by a re- nem with which this great subject ought to he treated. hesitate to carry out the MdieY wide!? had leho h , 'h Ihaed ? fusal of the administration of secrameats-siteriuents (Hear, hear.) I dull feel hound to obey the elecisione of What was do. Bequests Act: That Mellott,: ere, tv clotriy that were Aril: Mud by the Almighty, hot converted by the the chair in all matters of order. (Hear, hear) 1 did not a desire to consult the feeliegs of the RIIIII•Ill l'.11:11/Ilii , of priests into instruments of execration. (Cries of " Hear, Wilk it passible, till within the hot half home that any- Delete las far a. WM eSillsißtillt with the eimilieenento of I hear.") . The priests teught as a elute, and one essentially thing could aggravate icy sorrow in cam e ...mow,. of the re- the totablishea church iu that country, and t'. the iittwet conducive to the advancement of religion,, that all should rival of these moo painful shoe... Ono on religious subjects, degree short of an endowment which Mie co:entry yield obedience to the it superior, the l'ope, as their right in which religious feeliiies are mast &slay involved. might not have hsou willing to gist, mid which, and only bunt; rend that brought him to a work lately (hear, hear.) But what his just mourned hint for exceeded at all events, the It Mt catholic hi. r ashy nod publidwel by Cardinal Wiseman, an edition of the my mod auziote, expectation% and apprehension.. (Hear, clergy in Inland were net willing to acv: pd. (I hear.) " Exercises of Loyola." In the 13th " exereise" they would hear.) A most areomplishol gentleman and whiter says But chit is not the whole ewe. What wies th • cealeet et* I find it laid flown 'tent " what was seen to he white should he that he was so much heated in the , course of debate as CM Lord Lendhur , t, the Chawellor of that spouse ent 1 Act held to be' Meek if the church re eummawleel." (Much tirela to forget slat was due to a large hotly of g galemen ing with the full concurrence of the cabinet, :mil of my I laughter, nod cries of " hear, hear.") Why that was ao in thee house where we all sit on terms of perfect equality. mild' friend bond S tanley , who was a mentOir of that bad as ThelMeisellt (Renewed echo of " Hear, hear.") (('hore.) I shell not sully my lips -(the .r.) -ley reepeaa- gevernent at, did he nit iii the Roue,: of Lords prejaw the I l'huits comtnittril murder us un net of worship ; aud here ing the words which the hon. gentleman let fall'arom him, absolute repent of the statutes whieli proliihit. A the iWIO - men lied as an art of worship. Talk of the rt.:emulation of the both with regard to the individual honour and veracity of dustiest of hullo from tame? 1 admit that tee law we, left negro, it was nothine compared with such abasement. immix:re of the Roams catholic religion, and still less- in alt anomalous mate Ile Komi-eel the en:::.: rowel of (Laud cries of " 11,•ar, hear.") 'Elie neer° could not be what I shudder to think of-shall I sully my lips with what the statute. The Howe of Loris would not oeient to that, convinced that sugar was not sweet and lime juice sour ; he has said of thAr female relations who devoted their lives thelgh it coesented to the repeal of the pee Ones, area but here was white black, and black white, at lace. are. to the service of their Gil-who, from a feeling of eon- nose the etlonce, without the pcnaltieo still rsolains (Cheers, "oh, oh," and laughter.) NOW, it had !well nest wience, Mooted thee:heti es to a life of seclusion, but, at in the stet tett Amok. One of the hon. act :s'o'n. for thu unwisely said is that house, amongst other hon. !itemisers the same time, a life of chastity. The rides of under of the county of C•irk has referred to whet paw gl i . Isaat, o lon by the noble member for Ayrshire., that the people did nut house may have been owervtd, but if Roman catholic the penelis et, in-err' II in the Relief At.t, whali it is now care abut these thilego ineaMere are to sit here and take part in our debates, pmpwed to vetoed. Same very import int prise • .11110[90h Lord TCART-IL never said any such thing. (" Hear, Hammes like this are to be repeated (loud cheer.), and place in committee in the House of lo w& wi•ii respect to hear," and a letieh.) charges like these made, and mode in the tone and temper this clause, and, with the permissioer of the hoes, I Mould ' Mr. DRUMMOND-Well, it had been said in that which they have been made (renewed c he e rO-I corium like to noall them to their moillection.The canoe imposing house. (Ironicel laughter from the Irish membe re.) Ile imagine how the rule, of order and suds freedom o f e l e hate a penalty of le it. Cr Cie iiesuniption of the title of any 'co awned the people eared a great deal about it. The Eng- can he ineinteinea together. (Chem.) Th e limi, gentle. mettpitel by a prelate of the totablidil o church waspees 'BM were a law-loving people; they Yielded to the law ; man said that he would emerge thew ipe of tlo stela;... and pool by the bloke of Wellington. lie elated expreoely a and he regretted very much they had been excited to the he treated ie as a subject of a religious c h at se.ter. I shall Imo-vier, Lint lie did not tender it ac any seen ' extent they were. (Much lan Mho, with ironical cheers, also endeavour to enlarge the scope of the dehAte, but in the rite whatever Mr the established rhumb. I will , and Mime of "(hh, oh," from the Irish members.) lam no greater part of what I may edam. to the house, I shall read to you his words. He says:-" It is eserteMly trader in Cuneilietioa 11211-(continued the hon. gentleman treat of it. as a political question. (Hear.) At the seine time, no security, hut it would give seller,. time to the amid math !:twitter and clamour.) Both in principle and sir, I should think that I but ill die-hare:a my duty united church of England mid Inlaid." Now there potence I hate your whig dominos and ridicule your Igo- cowid :ring the great extent of object tonged liy the ques- is it most remarkable cireunestenos ref. , m .1 to by the li .n. tern:tames. (Laughter and inntivel cheers) The people tiou before us, if I did not, by some reef:story remark., member fur Cork which I thistle well worthy of attoo • shall not be excited by me. (Here the hon. member Wail clear away the ground before I proceed to the milt of the It appears that in the year 1791 the Irish lec .I.sle interrupted he shouts of laughter front the Irish benches.) great subject under discussion. (Hear, hear.) When I course preoholy similar to that whiai the poor.' But, excited er not, they shall hear the truth. (Ironical addressed a few 011aereatiOni to the house on this subject Ole wish us 10 take. They pawed a sweeping prehilMeei •.. cheers.) Do you suppose your mandates from the Flaminian a former ocemion, I mole two admissions, and I au glad to assumption of titles in Inland. line lone did the sslalin Rate will not he challenged? As yet we hoe not sworn repeat them now, as it wiU clear the ground tier me. to the on the statute hunk 1 Obeerve the toned. It was p mood obedience to them. (laughter said clamour.) The inople brat place I said that I thought the language used by the in the year 1792, wlieu we w, re di!: at powo are new willing to abide by the &Claim of the parties Pope in his reecript, and by Cardin el Wiseinan in his pas- with France. lit 1793 eircumstonces we re elieweed. to whom they . look for et:Mance, as ales to the toed, was arroeant in the extreme-(heer, hear)-and that Louis the Sixteenth had been beheaded; war had aen decision of this house. But, if the !roam of the it wan needlessly offensive to the feeling of this great pro- proclaimed. What tereurred then ? The right of votaig party throw them over and refuse to give them efficient teetant community. (Hear, hear.) Igo farther, and my witegiveit to the Roman catholic freeholders. (Heim, Over.) protection, they will take the law into their own hand.. that it was extremely difficult fur the remelts of the The act of 1792, prohibiting the atoumption to these till's, (Increased ironical cheers and laughter from the Irish crown to pass by that offence, which so deeply wounded was bUni.Matily repealed. (Moo hear.) Th. , Duke gees members.) Your only way then to preserve the tome is the great majority of the protestant coumunity, in silence on to say, " 1 his was one of the instable' which e11'.. , .1 to give them full and adeouata powers. (Laughter.) Do and contempt. (Hear, bear.) Ido think it may hose bow difficult it was to legislate on this subject at all." ' you think par cargoes of blinking statues, and bleeding been necessary, and it probably was necessary, in some (('heers.) The Duke is a man of foresight. The Bielve , ef prtures of the Madonna, with the liquified blood of the way or ether to re-assert the great protestant principles Durham, a most learned divine and professor of diviiiie. el Virgin Mona milk, will be tolerated here ? (Here which had been fixed at the Reformation, vindicated at Oxford, repudiated this clate , e altogether, oi)vino that it a scene of tremendous uproar and confusion fel- the Revolution, confirmed by the Act of Settlement, and aflairded nu security, offend no advent:tee, and that tia the I lowed, Mine dozens of members having sprung to their which were afterwards ratified on two memorable occa- part of the chortle he aid not desire it. Lori Chief Jen feet, uttering loud and clamorous exclamations, in which 'ions-by the Act of Uni o n between Scotland and England, tiee Tentershin-the chief justice of England-mid the the cries of e Chair " and " Order" were completely over- and the subsequent Act of Union between Great Britain clause would he inoperative ; and on that mound whelmed. After a few minutes, order being motored), and Ireland. (clear, hear.) I certainly do not thick propelled a clause, making the acceptance of a tithe Mr. O'II..IIIERTY craved the attention of the h o use, it would be, under any circumstances, wise in us to hy whomsoever offered a misdemeanor . The Duke a and said-In go English House of Commies, an assemblage meet the thunders of the Vatican by the more formideble Wellington, ululating that this clause woad h' opera which I have always understood to hue composed of gentle- thuuehi rs of her Majesty's fleet, under the command of tive, resieted it on the ground that it would lie a etatittory men ever anxious to vowel every portion of her Modesty's Admiral Parker, either in Civita Vecchia or An- recognition if the power of appointment on the part of the subjects, no matter what their creed, from insult,-(a. h e ar, MIMI. (Hear, hear.) The question I now come Pope, to which he said he could not consent. Ile said. hear," and eh eers)-I did espece that in such a house there to disco,: is of a more narrow description, and "Your lordships should look at your own proceedings. If would be an expression of feeling at the use o f to that question I shall endeavour to confine myself; you examine your own journals you will find places over such language as that indulged in by the hon. it is, whether legislation is the right moat, of meeting and over again where these titles have been given to Mai gentleman. ("Hear, hear," from the Irish member.) But I I this aggression, and if so, is this the proper one for that viduals, that is to bishops of the Roman Catholic Church must say that the language is as worthy the ta s t e as it i s the s purpow ? (Hear, lour) But here I ant met by this difficulty. of Ireland ; it is immosible to deal with titles under such judgment of the ball. gentleman who lewd it. (Hear, hear, When I say "this bill," I hardly know whether it is my circumstances ; all we can do is to declare that them (nem Irish monhere, with loud Mee, of " chair " and duty to dhows , it in the shape in whieli I hold it in my titles are not to be assumed in future." Lord hlalmee " order " from the other parts of the home.) hand, or in that altered shape which the authors of bury, who had been a most strenuous opponent of nll eons Mr. J. O'CONNELL-1 beg to move the adjournment the bill propose it shall ultimately assume. The cessions to the catholiee, made a speech on that °erasion, of the house. (Cries of " Hear, hear," "No, no," and ' most proper rule would be perhaps to discuss it which was an exact summary of the argument with!' ho "Chair," with great confusion.) as it is. And lam confirmed in that view, because I en- (Sir J. Graham) was urging. Ile said, " I think the es- The SPE INEIt -In a question of so much delicacy as I Certain a doubt whether the preamhle of the bill, with only elusion of the Roman catholics from parlianient was a /Veld relates to religion it would be well if hon. gentlemen ah- I the first clause attached to it will, not carry with it the pro- fide security, but you have &sailed umihot Mot, dained from the use of expressions calculated to lead to ill visions of the second and third c ause which it is proposed and this clause about titles is a joke, and WOWS' thee a .i..kee feeling and tempi. (Hear, hear.) to omit. (hear hear.) But that doubt has been Bubo:- for the attempt to enforce it will have the effect of Mr. DISC MaIOND was again about to proceed, but was quently strengthened by the opinions quoted by the hon. producing all the irritation of an effective statute." met with a perfect etorm of noises, amongst which cries of and learned member fur Dundalk, the °plutons of Mr. but does the ease stand here? The law has hem a dead. " Adjourn" were most plainly distinguishable. Bothell and Mr. Bramhall, men of high reputation in their letter in Ireland for peen, er nearly so. Oh ar, hearl The SPEAKER bolted hon. gentlemen would allow the profession. (Hear, hear.) These gentlemen have given it Dr. Maellale has somewhat omuly-1 had :!,oustetai debate to proceed, as their deliberate opinion that the tint clause with the pre- I somewhat odentationely-(lwar, hear)--constaiitly trees- An lion. MEMBER-We don't sit here to be insulted. amble would carry with it all the provisions of the second guessed the law ; and, as far as I am aware., that Mame Os Hear, hoar," with renewed clamour and shouting.) and third clause which it is proposes] to exclude. (Hear.) ore/wino has passed unnoticed. But it did not escaos tho The SPI•AKER should call on hon. members to support Now, that assertion was made before her Majesty's Solicitor attention of the legislature. Lord Lotto'', in his plait in him in upholding the dignity of that house and the General a dd resse d th e h ouse , It was not negatived, and the House of Lords, brought the matter under the notice of freedom of di.eusaion. (General cries of " Hear, hear," that being the case, the position of the house is most re- Lord )lelbourne, when the latter was at the head of the and D h l s t ir tAMOND-It haul been said that Cardinal niataarad votingkablc ,inasm ugovernment inasmuch as her Majesty's may be government, and called upon Lord Melbourne t o Institute against the second reading of the bill. legal proceedings. Lord Melbourne took time to deliberate, Wieeman had taken Thomas .e Becket WI his model. (" Hear, hear , " and laughter.) My noble friend, the first and after that deliberiadon informed Lord Lorton that ho Mr. J. O'CONNELL-I rise to order. (Loud cries of minister of th e crown, h as s tated mom frankly that the was not prepared to institute smell prosecution. (Cheers "Order" and "Chair.") As a reason for rising I wi s h to second and third ClaUfrei contain provisions which he did not from the Irish member.) . And who was present when he ssk you, sir. whether I was not in order in moving the wish to have carried into effect. Those clauses, he said, announced that determination 1 The Duke of Wel adamernment of the debate. 1," No, no.") An hon. gen- interfered with ordination and the collation to benefices in lington, the author of the only penalty which, as demon has been reprimanded by you-(" no, no")-aud I Ireland • and also traversed bequests made to bishops and I think. injudiciously, had been introduced into wish to ask whether in cowmen decency he ought not to priests by th e ir predecessors, and as thew were effects which the Roman Catholic Relief Act, and could he urge the prime I apologise .?-(" oh, oh," and " hear, hear")-whether his he had not contemplated he desired that they should be minister to proceed ? Quite the contrary, he joiewd in 1 I own good feelhos did not dictate to him that he ought to withdrawn. But if that view be sound, surely her Ma - giving his entire approbation of the prudence Is hell had make some apology for expressions which I forbear now to jesty's government will feel that it is iinproxible for them, dictated the refusal of Lord Melbourne. (Cheers from the ' characterise. (Hear, hear.) actisee consistently with a sense of duty in reference to the Irish mendore.) Some hon. members may think these 1,411: TRADING. Mr. W. WILLIAMS had tarn whet' a qu.o. ion th. oth.4 night by the hon. member tot Yoitabal Ile had been di .ar. 41 by the ehorehward• n..tat. that oo patios whata.uever of the fat, a of that parioh had le en ap• rrorriated to the Will., of agitating or groniutiog the tiiiiolay Bill. I'ASSPORTS. lord MA1140: no; motion of which be had given notice relative to pomporat, but the hum of $ ou ter. gaol which prevailed throughout the .p..' I. of ilia tausid it to Iw intiwrfeetiv heard. 11.• by bristly altertna.: to what had &kcalv passed upon t h e Ooh. ivel. In the mouth of )day Ism year, whets ll.e estonstr of the Foreign-ottice was before the bowie, he rolled the attention of hi. noble friend nt the head of the &,ceign departm, at to the defective ',Arm of granting pa-Aputts to Englishmen about to ipa to foreign $ .tat s, and al.o t.s the high price of the passport granted at the Foreign-other ; being two guineas asst a half, which aminintesl, as he ter. n showed, alnunt to a prohibition. On the 11th Feb. a notice apptared in the Gazette. by which th- price of theForaign-olfice passport was reduced. lie had to intention of imputing blame to the Fiweign Ke rr Loy for Cie sl.tem. hut, on the contrary, had to thank the noble lord for the grim improvements he had effected. the buts in the bowie iscriased at this Point and the nnhl lord be feared the subject was rather dry and t:ehnical to the houw, but at the woe time he would hope to receive their indulgence for • few mi nute.. The noble lord had certainly reduced the price of the Foreign Oltice passport from two guineas and a half to 7.. Gel.: but if an intending triivt tier did not wish to incur oven the eipens• of 7. 6d. he could easily elude the noble lord's arrangement, for if he were going to Spam, I fur example, he could ohtuin • passport free to Paris from ! the French embassy and when he arrived in Paris he could obtain another free passport onward from Lord Norseauby—and so pass over the move im port int part of the journey passport free. Would it not be a letter arrangement to equalise the price of all Fo:li.11 pse,orts whether granted here or abroad? There were two way, in which it might be managed—it might be left to tiorei4n ministers in London to provide Fp...ports, or a department might be ...A up in conuevion THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 21, 1851.