The Express. — London, England, 1848-06-21 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 21, 1818. depend their istemotte." (Cries of " Read on.") Of oourse you are to make the suffrage more general—if yon I do not any that which has been stated over and over are to make it universal, Ido nut see that havino universal attain, that I expressed ray belief them the country, namely, suffrage you could well act upon the plan proposed by the middle and working Masan, were not in favour of the bon, gentlemen, by keeping up the present cities, and all people's charter, or the plan ef the hon. member for Mont- but the smaller boroughs of the country; I do not see that ro se ; but that declaration has been used so it it were a you could well avoid that division into squat districts and declaration against all reform ; whereas I went on to say, into equal portions, which it is the proposal of the advocate. after ha ri ng exclude d these specific measure s , that the people of the charter to introduce. (Hear.) If lam asked d es ired a gradual progress in reform, and in using that term whether a divisiou into equal districts, and universal suf -1 excluded no species bf reform, neither parliamentary nor (rage to every male terson of full age, would give a better fiscal, nor any other kind of reform which it might be useful representative of the people at large than the present system to adopt. But so great has been the misund, emending or does, and would be more conducive to the interests of the / misconstruction of what I said, that at the Marylebone Meet. people, I must deny that such would be the result. You ing the hon. member for Montrose moved a resolution, would thereby have a great number of representatives for which began thus; "That the prime minister, having stated the large town. •' some 60 representatives for this metro his opinion that the people require no extensive measures of polis ; some 10 or 20 for other large towns; each political and Meal reform, it Vi hereby resolved," and so on. representative imbued with the spirit and the ex- The hon. gentleman, having heard what I said, and accu- cited feelings of the populations of these towns. cutely knowing what I said, really should have taken more You would not have the feelings of the smaller pains. When that resolution was put into his hand, he boroughs and middle-sized towns represented • you would should have " This is a resolution contrary to the fact ; have representatives of the agricultural classes of totally I know it to be so (hear, hear) ; it is impossible fur me to a different character, firmly attached to existing ineti tutione, but unwilling to adopt the measures of reform move it as it stands." Mr. HUME.-1 can only say, it is consistent with the which this house and others formed under the Reform Act, fact, to my knowledge. (" Or der, order." ) aye been willing to adopt. I fear that from a represents - Lord .1. BUSSELL.—Now, there is another eircums' once lion so composed, totally differing in their political views— which has attended many of the se meetings for reform. one too much influenced with views of extensive amelions They have been meetings convened and aseombled with a tion • the other, adverse to progress and improvements--you view of proposing and supporting the four points contained wou ld have a collision sad a contest which would be denier in this resolution which the hon. gentleman has moved ous in its operation, and, above MI, the parliament so mai toolay, and to which he has now added a fifth posed would not f airly represent the county which it would and with the view of tending petitions to this effect to represent. As far as his arithmetic went the house in Rupp in of this resolution. But when the matter hon. gentleman the member for Montrose was right, came to a discussion it has repeatedly happened either that but no further ;he said that a nof people, in some in some chartist has risen and moved an amendment, that etanne, had no greater representation than a few hundred. every persgo of full age and unconvicted of any crime ought His arithmetic woo perfectly clear; but when you examine to have a Min, and that that resolution has been carried, or the operation and the reason of these differences you will else that, such a resolution being proposed, inch a division find that this representation, on the whole, is better from in the meeting took place that the reporters, who generally your having a large variety of that kind than if you had one attend accurate ly to these twitters, have been unable to state sole kind of representation, and that the representation of the result of the meeting. I ray, therefore, with regard to numbers. When we were discussing the Reform Bid, this movement, that, in the first place, it has been in a great a gentleman, whose loss we had afterwards to de degree founded upon misrepresentation of what I said in my plore, because he gave promise of great talent.. in place in parliament ; and, in the nest place, that it is not to political lite. though his political views totally differed from be considered at all as a movement in support of the hon. mine—l mean Mr. Praed, who wished to give two mem gentleman the member for Montrose—whether we take bees to the boroughs in schedule B—men of great science, Leeds, or Birmingham, or Marylebone, as I think, or several he thought, and men of great talent and information would other of the great cities. It is to be regarded rather be sent by the small boroughs, though not person' of pro as a movement in which there was a division of opi..iun, party in the country, such as those who were likely to be in which the chartists very often had the majority ; and aat to parliament by a division of the country, and not be where they had the majority the meetings cannot be cons ing persons possessed of those stirring habits such as those who sidered as favourable to the plan of the hon. gentleman. The were likely to be sent by great towns. The right hon. bart., hon. gentleman, to my great satisfaction, began his speech the member for Tamworth, made a similar proposition. The by declaring that the plan of reform which I had the honour noble lord, after quoting a few observations which the right to propose in 1831, and which was carried into effect by pie. hon. baronet made in support of these views on the occasion Hameln in 1832, had bee n mainly instrumental in preserv- of his proposing a jory bill, proceeded by saying, I think ing the pesos of the country during the preant year. I that these arguments were foudled on sound and just views accept that testimony as a testimony that that plan of reform of policy, but I conceive that in giving 40 members to ache has been useful in averting discontent, preserving tranquil- dule A, and 60 members to other small boroughs, that we lity, and in bringing about other useful measures. (Hear.) were providing sufficiently fur that class of representatives, The hon. gentleman, and, end, afterwards said, thst if the which has in it not only men of commercial and agricultural people, accort'ing to their present rights of election, chose knowledge, and men of every kind of information, but which those who would filly represent them, if they attended to has in it men who have studied the constitution of the coun their awn interests as they ought, they had the means try—men in active and men not in active life, whose of carrying into effect measures conducive to the intelligence fits them to bo representatives, but whose interests of the community. If that be so, it must habits do not qualify them for county represen make the house pause as to the necessity for any tation, or for the representation of such places government measure of reform to enable the people to as Manchester and Birmingham. If this is the case, and if find a fair representation in this house. Because, by the lam at all right in that view, it disposes very much of the boo. gentleman's own statement, it is only fromtheir mistake whole of the arguments that have been put forth, that a of their true interests that the present tonne does not fairly great inequality exists, that a small place returns as many represent them, and that they have the opportunity at a members as a large place, that there are a thousand voters general election of being fairly represented. (Hear, hear.) in one place, while there are only 300 voters in another The electors, indeed, might reply to the hon. gentleinon place. If I am right in saying that these members ought that they had the power, but did not choose to use not to constitute the main basis of the constitution, that we it in the manner he recommended, fur that they should rather hare the House of Commons like the country had a better view of thin true interests than he himself itself, composed of various professions and various occupa had—(hear, hear) —and that they had chosen their present lions; if lam right in that, then the whole of the arguments repeesentatine, thinking that their views were the sound against the present eystem founded on the disparity of the views according to their own notions of public policy, and numbers of electois tenet once totke ground. The hon gentle , not the views which the honourable gentleman enter- man doesnot get rid of disparity ; like the rest of his proposi- Mined. For, although he may comend for any Moos he leans it vague and undefined. Then what would bo the particular right of suffrage, he cannot contend, what- ease if we were to adopt his resolution He says that he ever right he may establish, that the people are to adopt will leave the existing boroughs, with the exception of small all his notions, and that they are not fairly represented if the ones; he would throw Horsham with three or four other representatives do not coincide with his views and opini,no towns into the county of Kent; but would be leave such (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman began by a declaration places as Canterbury, Guildford—such towns as Norwich that every man who was a contr butor to the taxes in any and Ipswich, in their present situation i If he did he would way should have a share in the representation, and that rot have equality of numben; and l say, how would those every man of full age who coot, ibuted in any way to the who ask for reform be a bit better satisfied than they are at taxes had positively a right to vote. Why, sir, if this pro- present if they find that still there would be 20,000 electors position were true there would be an end of all dimere about in one place and only 300 in another? They would then the matter—an end of the hon. gentleman's propositions, his say, Let us have a just and effectual reform instead of a mere limitation., his restrictions, his qualifications—and we should mockery of reform which you have wis given fo u r a sett s. The hlement on. have nothirg to do but pass an act of parliament acknow- gentleman, at the end of his speech, hed ledging that right, and admitting all to vote. But the hon. of this question very much in the same language for which I gentleman in his plan does not carry his proposition into have been reproached with having used on former occesione. effect. (Hear.) His remedy is to extend the franchise so as to Ido not know how he can haves settlement of the question, include "all householders," the word "all " having been left for the advocates of the charter, who are more numerous out by mistake; and from his explanation he appears to intend then his adherents, would still have their grounds of the word word " householders" to include persons haying a fixed plaint. They ask for a vote for every male adult, which the residence, and who may be lodgers in the house, but, as I hon. gentleman does not allow, and for equal disoicts, which understand, who must claim to be rated, and must be actu. ha dots not pretend to establish. I will not argue at any ally rated, and placed on the rate-book for the relief of the length on the coestion of vote by ballot, for I believe that peon There is a restriction, a qualification, a condition, under th_t system there would be means of discovering how which, if she hon. gentleman is right in his former propesi• an elector voted, as well as now. Among the various meet tion, you have not the smallest title to impose. (Hear, ings lately held, there was one held in the north, at which a hear ) Here is a man of full age, belonging to the parish cf gentleman from America stated that he was frequently able Westminster ; he; claims his right to vote. Are you to say in the United States to tell how an elector voted. Ballot that he is not registered, and his name is not on the rates in itself was not security, and it would be precisely the same book, and therefore he cannot be admitted? " Why," he in England. Though the Chamber of Deputies in France says, " I have an indefeasible, a constitutional right, as being were elected by ballot, it was no security against revolution. a man 21 years of age; and it is impassible for you to deny With regard to the other proposition, that the duration of that right, or set aside or evade my claim to vote by parliament shi old not exceed three years, if I agreed with any pretence of your qualifications about rate-hook:, the hon. member for Surrey in thinking that we should and registration, and conditions of lodging, and so appear more often before our constituencies, I should hold forth." (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman by that that, instead of saying with him that it was a qualification destroys his own proposition. I will confess matter of no inditterence whether we should have that the boo. gentleman quoted some sentences ot mine annual or triennial parliaments, I should say that annual in bringing in the Reform Bill in 1831, which, I must admit, parliaments were to be preferred. What you want is not were somewhat loosely . quoted. They cou.d not have been the power of dismissing members when they ill behave aoplied as the foundation of the measure I proposed ; but at themselves, as he supposes ; fur Burke was rejected at Brist liest I went on to state exactly what the measure was. I did tot, not for ill behaving himself, but for supporting civil and not leave any doubt about it, and every one can junta what religious liberty ; it is not a frequent change in represents the proposition NM which I wished to see parliament adopt. tion that you ought to have in view, but you ought to have The hon. gentleman's proposition is of a very diffe.ent rim in view the maintenance of lull confidence between repro titre ;itis of a very vague and indefinite character. (Hear sentatives and their constituents, and some kind of stability , 'When the hon. gentleman says that all householders and in the policy of the country. (Cheers.) If you had trim lodgers who claim to be rated are to vote, I really do not nial porliaments the whole constituti .n would be unsettled, understand how large a part of the working classes this will you would just give time enough to the people to consider I clude. Many sons It with their fathers, or forming that they should make a change, while an annual election, port of a family, might or might not form part of the coo - either in September or October, would be a sort of renewal of stituent body under this proposition. He nays there are six tie trusts which they would be ready and willing to make. millions of persons of full age who ought to vote, and that I therefore think, if we are to have any . change, that annual only one million or less are included in the present repre- parliaments would be better than triennial parliaments, and sentation. But 1.. e v ery imagine, if his proposition were that triennial parliaments is th e worst proposition of all. carried out, and every man had a right to vote, (Hear, hear.) I once gave an opinion in favour of five years; without being registered sod rated, you would find still but lam satisfied with the present duration of parliaments, some two or thre mlions at least excluded from the right and certainly I shall not give my vote for an alteration of the of voting, who w e l d oud not come under the definition the hon. Period. I think I see that there is a very close correspond gentleman has made. What, then, becomes of his assertion, mice and communication between members and their consti that you have disqualified those who have the right of voting tuents—(laughter)—and even though members may expect and that it is beyond the power of parliament to exclude a tenure ef their seats for anyears, Ido find that the opinion those who have that constitutional right ? (Hear.) I differ of the constituencies has a great influence on the conduct of entirely from the hon. gentleman as to the foundation of his representatives. (Hear, hear.) But I would beg to put proposed representation. In my opinion, that which the this question which the bon. gentleman has raised to ano th er I people have the right to, not only every man of full age, but test, which Ido not think he ought to refuse. The reform the whole population of this kingdom, is the best possible in parliament took place in 1832. Has the House of Com- I government and the best kind of representation which it is mans since that period shown themselves, as is represented possible for the legislature to give. (Hear, hear.) And if it by some, to be the mere servants of the aristocracy, or merely should be that universal suffrage would give the best legis- bigots who are afraid to enter upon any reform, indifferent lature, the best laws, and the beat government, I do not to improvement, or careless of the voice of the people ? I see that this house would be justified in refusing the claim. think no person who considers the changes made in that' But if this would not give so good a government as a slits time, and how readily those changes have been adopted by ferent form of voting, then it is mere pedantry and false the house when the voice of the people was clearly aster philosophy to say that every man ought to have a vote ' for Mined, will say that this house has not responded quickly the main object of representation, as the main object of our and readily to public opinion of that kind. The new parliament institutions, being good government and the welfare of the was not long in existence when slavery was entirely abolished people, you ought not, for the sake of some abstract opinion in the West Indies—an immense change favoured by peti about the mean., to lose sight of the very object you ought tions, favoured by the voice of the people, but such a change I to keep in view. (Hear, hear.) We have mixed cons is 113 was hardly ever adopted before by any leghlature in the tution ; i on crown an d, the House of Lords are part of that world. (Hear, hear.) Shortly after that the trade with constituti ; they are not evils to be endured, but part of China was thrown open to the commerce of the world, from the benefit of the institutions which we enjoy. One of the which great commercial advantages resulted. Ina year or greatest and one of the most profound writers of antiquity, two after, the commutation of tithes was adopted, a measure in writing on the subject of government, said, not perhaps in which the clergy and the laity were equally interested, exactly in words, but in sentiment, what lam about to but at the same time a subject of such di ffi culty that it quote: " Every government is formed, either of monarchy, haffied the power and intelligence of Mr. Pitt when he took of aristocracy, or of democracy. A government formed and it into consideration. The dissenters complained of co out of tke three may . be easily imagined, but it cans grievances with respect to the celebration of mar not easily Ise brought to pass ;Srif it shall be brought to triages and the registration of births and deaths. pass it cannot be durable." Such was the sentiment of That grievance was completely and effectually remedied a great and profound historian—a sentiment authorised In another year or two the municipal corporations were and justified by all the experience of antiquity, and justified entirely reformed. Many self - selected corporations were almost by the experience of the world in modern times, with subjected to popular election, and an entirely new con the exception of one, and I should say a moat fortunate stitution was given to them. (Hear, hear.) In the course country It has so happened that in this country we have of late years the house has been occupied with measures had these elements combined whioh Tacitus said could hardly from which a great ortion of this house dissents, but be combined—of monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy ; and which were great chan g e' , and in the opinion of the hon. it has happened that that constitution has been durable. Sir, member for Montrose great and beneficial reforms. (Hear, I confess that, seeing how difficult it is, according to t rue number I allude to the changes made in the tariff, to the judgment, and which I believe to be very nearly a true number of duties which have been abolished, the number of judgment, with the exception which we Ikea seen —seeing excise and customs duties which have been reduced, and one how difficult it is to maintain that species of mixed constitu- great alteration and change has been made which surely tion which ha. provided for the hsppiness of the people in cannot be said to show that this house has been this country—l have always felt, having bad much to do Peculiarly under the government of the landed since the year 1819 with proposing measures of reform, and aristocracy—the total and entire repeal of the corn laws. with assisting other measures of reform, how critical and That measure some gentlemen may think au injurioas mea nice a matter it was to alter i nns , any way the a.l- sure ; others may think it highly for the benefit of the justment of the differ; rat powers a the constitus country ; but, at all events, it shows this, that when there lion. I retnemb r, on she night before I was was c onsiderable popular agitation, and public meetings Amerto • og for. •rd the Reform Bill, speaking to an held is the country, and when a great cry arose for the American e ihed toli nte, who then represented his change, the House of Commons was not slow in listening to country at our co ur t, ur and I said to him, " I cannot but feel the vole.. of the people, and effecting the alteratian asked very anxious on proposing to make an alteration in a con - for. (Hear, hear.) Now, if these are changes which have stitution which has lasted so lung." He said, " Yes, eo long been made, and H various other measures have been car and so strong " And that, in fact, is the light in which I ried, such as the reduction of the postage on letter, to a regard the constitution of this country ; it has been very penrn. (" Oh, oh," from Col. Sibthorp, followed by much long; it has been very strong ;and we should therefore laughter.) I was mentioning that subject in patenthesie apply ourselves with the utmost care, with *e utmost de- amongst others ; but I really think that it was a great social liberation, and I will my with the greatest anxiety, to an, than it was a measure of great import • plan which proposes to alter the representative body in this ance; and when you find that the correspondence has house. Then, taking it in that point of view, and not with increased to the enormous extent it has done, regard to th e question of right, ant us see whether a body you may consider how many persons i were prevented from elected by all the householders and all the lodgers would be the benefit of communicating ve . h their friends ; and when a better podium Co pt, a better representation than the pre- you think of the interchange of domestic affection which it sent reAlSli of Commone. If you look to nially household has occasioned; you may estimate how great a benefit it has suffr •e. the objection applies to which the hon gentleman conferred on the community. (Hear, hear.) • 1 thin k, :hat you get a representation of brick and mortar, therefore, shot it cannot he said that the Wormed psalm und that those who have been the ail of the charter meat has either been idle or unwilling to listen to great will have • fair right to complain when they see the smallest measures of reform ; and let it be recollected likewise that householders admitted to the right o f voting, while (I am sure every member of this house must have a sensi loony persons superior in property and in intelli. ble feeling of this benefit, though so many useful measures gence to the small householders are excluded. (Hear.) connot be carried on account a it) the debates on every subs Ido not think that that is an objection which can be fairly therefore are now more protracted than formerly, and that there is eatertained against the present system of suffrage, because therefore greater difficulty in carrying any number of mess that mode makes a choice among the householders ;it does sores in a single session. (" Hear' - and laughter.) The give a right to property ;it takes property of a certain hon. ntleman has asked u s . to agree to those . great wee • amount; it takes the rating combined with that property, sures combined in the. begfour different points which he has and then fixes the franchise. If we admitted the whole of Proposed. Now, sir , I to state that Ido not think re the householders without any other qualification than that of forms should be . confined to the subjects I have mentioned, being householders., it would be open to the objection and others of a similar kind . .1 do not th . ink . that we should If content ourselves with improving the legislation, and altertny that we admitted men of inferlOr intelligence. -• the excise and customs. (Cheers.) I think while the reform bill was a settlement of a great question that the Reform Bill itself may admit Iran time to tune of such improvements or alterations as experience and knowledge may suggest. (Rear, hear.) And at the time when I was most attacked as speaking of the Reform fit'l as a final measure, I spoke in this manner of the rev ntion of the freemen. I and I thought it won a misfortune that the freemen were kept in the Reform Bill, and that if they exercised the franchise corruptly, one of two courses must be adopted. either to disfranchise them altogether, or, what I consi dered the better course, to treat the rights of the freemen as other rights had been treated. In a subsequent I armee, I said that there were many de fects in the Reform Bill, which required to be corrected, but that such chances differed entirely from a proposition to found a new reform bill, based on triennia. parliaments, household suffrage, and vote by ballot. This was paid in my letter to the electors of Stroud, written in 1839. From the year 1839 to the present time, I do not think the hon. member for Montrose, or any of those who agree with him, have thought it necessary to bring forward this question of the constitution of the Reuse of Commons. Neither as a minister officially, nor when sitting on that side of the house, hive I thought it necessary to intro duce any measures of reform on this particular sub ject. But as the public mind seems now alive to subjects of this nature, I believe the time will come—per haps is not far distant—when reforms of the description I mentioned might to introduced, which will tend to purify the representative System. I think the inquiry we intend to make by the bill introduced this semein with regard to certain borough., some of which have been ac cused and others proved to be guilty of corrupt' practices, may give us further information than we now possess as to the course we ought to pursue — whether some of those boroughs ought to be disfranchised, and whether we ought not to take the same course with re gard to others that were taken with respect to the freemen of Great Yarmouth. But I should be sorry to see one or the other course adopted without other measures to accompany them. I should be sorry I. see this house much reduced by disfranchising boroughs, or to disfranchise freemen without at the same time admitting other kinds of voter, to take, their place. (Hear, hear ) What I have always admitted to be the defeat of the reform bill is not the having of eighty- I five different kinds of votes as stated by the hon. gen tleman. What I think the defect of the reform MB is that the great variety in the right of voting which fairs merly existed has been too much reduced to a uniform eye- tem. (Hear, hear.) I think that by some different' varietiess of suffrage, by giving the franchise, for instance, to those who have placed money in the savings hank, and than showed their tensility; and to those who have been elected by guild., thus showing that their te'low citizens placed confidence in them ; and by other modes of this kind, we might extend the franchise we bout injuring the basis of our representation. lam not disposed to say the reform bill is a final measure and that you cannot usefully and beneficially alter and improve it. (Hear, hear.) But if the hon. gentle man or the house ask me whether I am prepared at the present moment to introduce any bill, for that purpose, I must at once say that 1 do not at the present moment intend to introduce any considerable measures of the kind. I might find reasons enough for that in the variety of measures before the house, and to which the attention of the house has been already in a great degree directed. But sir, there are other reasons—reasons which induced the hon. gentleman the member for Montrose to think that this was a gond time for a large measure of reform, but which induced me to come to a totally different conclusion. It is admitted, and it must be admitted, that sixteen years ago you adopted a very large measure of reform in the repre sentation—a much larger measure, I believe, than the most sanguine reformers of the day expected the ministers of the king to adopt. It must be admitted that the carrying of the measure of inform--the removal of Gattoo, Old Sarum, and such like places, from the repr sentation, and the admission to it of such towns as Leeds, Birmingham, Sheffield, and Manchester—that ell this has contributed to give a larger and a more secure basis to the representation. It cannot be denied either that the House of Commons thus reformed has carried large measures of improvement— vast in their changes—tending to the increase of popular power and po pular advantage, and showing that the house is ready to act according to the enlightened opinions of the people. The hon member says our votes this year have been extrava gant, and that we have been actirg against the opinions of the people in the great eatablishmenta we have kept up. There are some questions of the presenp session on which I have desired the division lists of the house to be examined, so that comparisons might he made between the constituencies represented by members dividing in the m a jority and the counties represented by memners dividing in the minority. On the first of the cc divisions, that limiting the duration of the incamc tax, the members who voted in the majority represented 668,038, whilst these who voted in the minority represented only 316,689 electors. In the division of the 29th cat March, on a motion of Mr. Hume's for inducing the number of men in our navy, there voted in the m ijority the representatives of 716,278 electors, and in the minority the representatives of only 171,317. On a similar motion, for reducing the num ber of men in the army, there voted in the majority 600,753 electors, and in the minority 163,255. (Hear, bear.) Now, after these divisions on great public questions, I think it cannot be said that the small boroughs have overpowered the votes of the people upon matters relating to finance. The votes of the house en these occasions have fairly repre sented the opinions of the people. That there has been of late years a tendency to augment our establishments on the part of this house, the government, and the country, I believe to be true. There are times when it is thought well that we should render our establishments as perfect and efficient as possible; and then when, in are oordance with that wish, large sums have been expended, it ! often happens that the tide changes, and that a great wish is expressed that no more money should be spent than is abso lutely necessary. In times of distress, when trade my happen to be crippled from any cause, such a clone may be desirable to adopt, and I am sure that at such a period the house and the government never fail to feel and act upon that principle. As I said before, there can be no ground for saying at present, that with regard to expenditure the house does not represent the opinions of the nation. (Hear, hear.) My belief is that it does, and that it represents it fairly. (Cheering.) Well then, air, if you find !hat a great measure of reform was carried 16 years ago, that great measures of reform have been carried by the parliament SD improved—if you find also that on questions which do arise or which are like'y to arise this house repre sents the opinions of the people. and not any selfish motive or class interest—then, I say, this is not the time when a cry and a clamour for more reform ought to be excited. The cry for change at present raised is ac companied by ao many suggestions and proposals that are wild and visionary —such, for example, as those contained in the petition presented to-night by the noble lord the member for Bath—(hear, hear) views of capital, labour, and pro perty of the most erroneous kind, are so generally alien, that there is, I think, good reason in that for not making, at this time, any great or sweeping alterations. And here let me may that I deny the charge—the popular and common charge—that the government of this country is carried on for the benefit °tits anstocrecy I believe sincerely that the govern ment is carried on for the benefit of the people at large, and for I the sake of no class interest; but if it lie meant to be said that because people belong to the aristocracy they are to be debarred rem taking their part in public affair., why I ob ject entirely to such narrow views. (Hear, hear.) I, for my part, will never allow that because a man happens to be ea led Stanley or Howard he is to be prevented from enjoying public distinction, as if because he had not a name less noble or less illustrious. (Hear, hear.) But, sir, there are other reasons — reasons of which the members of this house can not but be sensible—ressons which I find in the records of ev nta which have been and are ev, ry day happening around us. (Hear, hear.) At such a time the advantages you have had in the preservation of law and order—the advantages which you have enjoyed in the fineness of your institutions — are great. In England you have exhibited an object for the admiration of the world. The stability you have shown in the storms amid which kingdoms and nations have been over whelmed has not only excited the admiring astonishment of all who desire the preservation of tranquillity . , but has brought you the respect of those whose respect it is an object of ambition to enjoy. You have stool. Like a vast sea-mark placed epos the shore, A beacon for the wrecked. (Cheers.) I hope that at such a time you will not think it right to go into vague and indefinite proposals of reform— proposals that do, indeed, apparently evade the principles of the people's charter, but which, in reality, cannot stop short of that great change in our constitution. I would rather hope that you will think it due to the institutions it is your advantage to inherit—that you will think it due to the other branch of the legislature—that you will think it due to tile people whom you represent—to give a steadfast and el e ter . mined negative to the motion not before you. (The noble lord sat down amidst great cheering.) Mr. W. J. FOX sail that runny exceptions had been taken to the proposal, which belonged rather to the details than to the prince* of the plan. His object was to fix at tention on the .rcpt principles which this question involved. lie thought the noble lord must have been pleased with the tine opportunity he had had of correcting any mistake in re ference to his expressions upon former occasions. It must have been gratifying to him to be able to tell the country that he was favourable to some reforms, though it would have been more gratifying to the country to have been informed what those reforms were. He conks ed, for his own part, that in what had been said he found very ettle indeed ti guide them. Ths statem nt was most indefinite. It merely amounted to this, that ad vantage would at one time be taken of any opportunity that might offer to disfranchise a man who had been found guilty of bribery, and at another time to admit a man who had proved himself worthy of the franchise by putting money in the savings bank. He did not think it was quite lair to refer, as had been done, to the want of unanimity at the meetings on this subject. To complete the statement on that point it should have been stated that at not one of these meetings had either party been over powered by any third party, who were opposed to all reforms. (Hear, hear.) Those meetings proved that the people thought it quite indispensable to entertain the one question or the other. But he thought the fallacy that ran through the noble lord's siencs was, tbat they were to regard representation as an eater: al agency mere];. A re presentative government was a government of opinion, and the members of it were to consider the feelings of their constituencies. He saw something tar more important in the question, than whether some millions sterling too much had or had not been granted at any given period. It was a question whether the millions of beings around us, our fellow-countrymen, should cherish in their bosoms the noble, the elevating, the comforting feeling of conscious free dom, or should be weighed down by the degrading, the dan gerous sense that they were only members of a slave class in what purports to be a free country. (Hear, hear.) Ti.ere was no uuestion of foreign diplomacy or of domestic manage ment more important to the safety and to the eventual prosperity and glory of Great Britain than the state of feeling of the great masses whom they in that honee claimed to represent. The one main political point raised by the resolution of the hen. member for Montrose, was this ; were the working classes represented as they ou :ht to be in that house, and if not, :Quid they be so represented, without peril to any valuable institution, nay, with a better prospect thence of our taking a perm meat place at the head of nations in the great nierch of civilize tion ? It was his opinion that they were not so ref resented, and that they could be so represented without the danger suggested, and with the auspicious prospect he had indicated. From the returns laid on the table of the house on the motion, loot year, of Mr. Williams, it appeared that there were 3A1,645 names on the list of the household suf frage; but of this number how many might be supposed to belong to the industrial classes ? Of the 320,615 vat's only 99,1.40 were in respect of houses ranging hetw, en 10i. and 15/, rent, so that one-third of the household bough consti tuency was swamped by the classes above them, for, when you got to the 20/ , 301., 501. rents, rising up among the higher portion of the middle classes, you of course lost sized altogether of the working people at all. The borough seal city votes not dependent on household suffrage, such as those of the Livery of London, and so on, wire only 32,000 alto gether; so that, allowing one moiety of the howehold suffrage ranging between 101. and 15/. rent, and one moiety of the other 32,000 votes, to the absolutely in dustrial classes, these clamss numbered but 60,000 voters in a total constituency of 830,000—(heir, hear)—that was to say, 1 vote in 17. Surely it could not be said that this was a lair representation given to the indu.tred millions, whose strong arms, whose thinking head., and whose indomitable labour had created the wealth and greatness, of the country —(hear, hear)—and who, in return, were treated as helots upon its soil, as slaves who had nothing to do with the laws but to obey them. (Hear, hear.) Much had been said about the claims of abstract right, and the claims of property in this country. It appeared to him that the question was capable of a sufficient settlement without going into any very line distinctions on these points. Let them but cause the working millions of this country to be represented : this was what was wanted, and in doing this he would not very minutely inquire into the state of their information and ae quirements, or into the amount of their deposits at the wings' banks. They were taxed, they paid their quota towards the expenses of the state, and they had at least a property in their strong arms and their reflecting brains, and here was enough to give them a right to be recognised as constituents—tor it was not members of the legislature it was proposed to make them. As constituents, it needed not far them to he initiated in the mys teries of the Spanish, marriages, or to be conversant with every chess of the treaty of Utrecht; it was only re quisite that they should, after watching the public conduct of their neighbour, or of some man of national reputation, be empowered to say, " This is he in whom I have confi dence, and I elect hint my representative." (Hear, hear.) One of the most interesting debates on the subject of parlia mentary reform in his recollection occurred in 1822, when the noble lord brought forward, in a most remarkably im pressive speech, his views on the subject. The noble lord then said; " We have now not only one free agent but there are in this country at least one million of (magenta, men per fectly free and independent, who have no vote for a member of parlament, though anxious to acquire the right, and in every way qualified to exercise the functions of electors." Again, in 1831, the noble lord had said:'—" Although it is a much disputed question, yet I believe it will he found that in ancient times every freeman, being an in habitant householder resident ia a borough, was competent to vote for members of parliament. But to revert to the noble lord's speech in 1822, it was a very original argument, very striking, and produced a very great effect upon the country, whatever its effect upon the house. Ile begged t draw the attention of the house to that speech now, 1) cause it applied with great force to the present discussion. The noble lord, in adverting to the then intelligence of the country, as adapting it for an extended suffrage, pointed out that there were in London 100 circulating libraries, and 900 more scattered throughout the country. Ile spoke rat the two great quarterly review., the Quarterly and the Edinburgh, of the Bible and other societine of the 23 millions of news papers issued in the year preceding. If all te is were an ar- gument for extending the suffrage in 1822, what much stronger arguments were now presented in the enormously increased diffusion of knowledge which had since taken place. If, by their knowledge, a million of free agents were then entitled to the franchise, but had it not—and had it not, one-half of them, to this day—how many more now were en titled to it? The newspapers circulated now were not 23 mil lions, but nearer 60 millions than 50 millions. There were half-a-dezen quarterly reviews ; there were as many mecha flies' institutes in Yorkshire alone as then id the whole country ; there had been halts-million of money expended, and that not halt enough, ia aid of the mere erection of schools there had been diffused millions and millions of penny cyclopicilias, of penny magazines, of Chambers's various publications; and, if it were said, however fallaci ously, that these were all light reading, not adapted to ele vote the public mind to constituent qualifleatioa , , he would add that, besides these new publicatioas, our standard writers had been issuel in millions of copies at a rate placing them within the reach of the very humblest classes. The "Essays of Bacon" were attainable now for 4d. ; the plays of Shakspeare for three or four shillings. (Hear, hear.) Look also at the increase of intellectual pursuits amongst the people at large of late years, as manifested in various wane The returns of the Bride's Museum shower - 1 that in 1832 the number of visitors was 147,896, whilst in 1847 it hail increased to 820,966 ; and in the reading-room the same in. crease of persons frequenting that place of study was observ able, the numbers, in 1832, being 31,200, and in 1847, 67,525. Take the working cisme, also in their studies and recreations, and what was highly important in their ecoso mics, and the most remarkable 1031liti would be seen. The number of savings banks in 1833 was 484. The number of amounts open ia them was 475,835. and the amount of de posits was 715,7111. In November, 1814, which was the last return be had been able to procure, the mures of alevines banks in the three kingdoms hail increased to 1,577, whilst the amount of deposits had also proportion ately increased. The same results were observable in the Manchester an I Salford savings banks, if individual cases were referred to. He would, however, go no further into this branch of statistics, hut, by way of showing the advance made by the people, he would cite from some papers moved for by the hon. member for Salford, which showed that the number of persons above the age of 15 who had signed petitions to that house during the five yearn up to 1832 inclusive was 74,036. In the next five years the number won increased to 14,014, end in the last five years it reached 16,397, showing a gradual annual increase of dissatisfaction on the part of the working classes with the government. Whilst at the same there was a marked and rapid progress in intelligence, and also in eco: inimical and saving habits. There was one remarkable fea ture in the progress manifested by the people at large to be observed in the fact, that not only were there readers, but also writers springing up amongst the working classes, and let him remark, not writers dependent, as formerly, upon the patronage of the great and wealthy, but who retained strong within them the feelings of that class in which they were born and bred. Compare these writers with those of former times, and the advantage was immeasurably on their side. He could cite amongst them authors whose names were strange to the great majority of those who sat there, and yet every legislator would do well to consult their works ; for unless they did, they could not understand the spirit which ani mated the classes te whom they addressed themselves. There was Bamford, the weaver, whose graphic description of the massacre of Manchester in the year 1819, would be transferred to his pages by the future historian. There was the writer signing " One who has whistled at the Plough," whose description of a soldier's flogging made the flesh crawl, and even the cold critics had been stimulated into admiration by the force of his description. There was William Thom, the Inverury weaver, who had written songs worthy of the land which gave birth to Burns. There were other names worthy to be cited William Lovett and Thomas Cooper amongst others— who could be summoned as witnesses to the truth of what he stated. But he would not ask the house to take his ques tionable evidence on the subject. He would refer them to the bon. member for Reading, who had so elegantly raid of Akenside that be had infused the spirit of Plato into Eng lish poetry—or to a writer in a different department of let,. ten, he meant the honourable member for Buckingham shire, who had discovered the merit of "The Pur gatory of Suicides," and had enabled the author, humble cobbler though he was, to bring his poem before the public. When he reflected that the whole I .leerature of the class of writers to whom he referre pervaded by one political spirit ; when he taw that that these writers were indignant at the shaneee ev th '..eatened the future, he could only warn the government proceedings of past years, and that they and the legislature of the absolute necessity far re.' cognising their claims; already those claims had ' see n recognised and represented in the noblest time— that of intellectual supremacy ; and in refusing t h em t h e i r political rights, the legislature exhibited a suicidal folly, dic tated by a short-sighted policy, which said 'that whilst as authors the men who:* he had referred. to h a d a place o lrfo r rn t oind b e e qxt exceptional householders.it ie be i ng name people? n ,, g p: (:nsed. They d ieua:t i in to p t ens t ii h i e h,cca. )butworship fulumgt7.tt uemayt, amongst those who were deemed worth- of the laurel, they were ear ta re do nth l u leyl o tei not w o r thy egtoas w iu: much mistook the working classes, who did not esteem the individuals to whom he tiesned as the worthy countrymen of 'Mitten and of Leek c—names that termed the brightest F lory o, England. What did they tear from these men? chat they would render the House of Commons less decorous or dignified than it now was? Did the House of Commons think that those men would return as their representatives the lowest refuse of their own body ? Would the representa tives of the working classes render the debates in that house more personal than they now were ? Would they come down there and subject themselves to be told they were flushed with champagne or brandy, and that their volubility caused a loss of time, and did not promote the progress of business ? (Laughter end cheers.) Would they endanger property a Why, property sees the very soul of the English character. (Hear.) It was not possible for any one to propose a scheme for oetaining it, however delusive, however wild, but that the desire for obtaining property in duced some to join It. Savings banks, building funds, land schemes—(loud laughter)—all were grasped at with avidity. Even such a lottery as the Land scheme had succeeded in exciting the hopes and expectations of the working classes, and they had eagerly sought prizes in it. Nor were there any such feelings or desires entertained by those classes as were so strangely imputed to them in a document that had iecently been laid on the table of the house. He had oh. ' served tee people most closely, and his judgment of them was conclusive as to the propriety of adminine them to the poor privilege of a single voice in electing their representa tives. (Hear.) Let them consider what the people el,: been exposed to. He was old enough to ree thect the systeet of corruption which prevailed fifty years ago. He hel known as pure a constituency as ever gained in tee was )1e length and breadth of the land. How was the cue now ? That eissititisency bad been rendered corrupt by tee continual practice of instilling into them the no tion that their votes were worth money. He I looked upon the briber as worse than the bribed He re memeered one Me of a Y .rulouth freeman who re !limed a bribe until it bec.me a means of rescuing him tram the workhouse. The house might be sure that the working claws would cot select working men, except under peculiar eireumeaneee as their representatives. In France only thirty eight had :en chosen in an assembly of nine hundred. (Hear, hear) They would act similarly here. (Hear, hese.) They would look to local imeortance, or else select men with national reputation. Such men it would be desirable to have in the house, rather than men, unknown to localities or to fame, going I rambling about the country with their heavy pursue, seek- Mg some constituency to corrupt. (Cheers.) This would be little harm, if all of that class were excluded from the house. (Hear, hear.) He believed that under the plan of his hon. friend the member for Montrose, such men would be excluded. (Hear, hear.) Under some such system there would be an end to the degrading sy stem of canvassing. which indeed brought the rich and poor together, but only for their mutual degradation. (Hear, hear.) In large c instituencies there was no canvassing. Men of mind got returned, after having been heard in public three or four times by the constituency. Ile believed that the plan of his hen. Mend would destroy canvassing alto gether, and if it did it would confer a great blessing on the country. (Hear, hear.) Leek, then, at the evils of the pre. sent system, at the disunion which it created. Let them consider the immense importance of our being a united no tion, of not having represented and unrepresented, contented and discontented, classes. (Hear, hem.) Our relations witb foreign countries, the general peace, all depended upon unity amongst all class es of the p ople of this country. The con viction of this was growing cm ingst the people, it was bringing the middle and working classes together, and the aristocracy would act unwisely if they kept much longer aloof. (Hear, hear.) It was not our fleets or armies, however glorious might be their histories, which constituted the true glory of this ccuntry. That glory consisted in the indomitable energy and industry of cur working classes, whom it would be unwise to keep much longer in a. state of degradation. (Hear, hear.) Let them, then, discard class differerces, spread education with a bold and free hand, throw wide the portals of the constitution, equalise taxation. Lit them do this, and they would no longer have the millions an alienated body, but forming such an array as had never yet been opposed to the foreign enemy. (Hear, hear.) They would raise a trophy not watered by blood, but mere glorious than the most sanguinary victory. Lents: us (said the hon. member in conclusion) offer us equality, educate your population, enfranchise your population..and then, arm rh u e r nl te population. naifin C s h oTthe nli w n o ed rlart h e a l o mn me de d rg i a r in ba against yon, and your people will triumphantly rot! back from your shore every wave of hostility. In the words of the great charter, neither deny nor deity justice, but grant it freely and promptly to the working classes of the British empire. (Cheers.) elr. DISRAELI said that tho animated and eloquent address of the lon. member who had just sat down did not accord altogether with the resolution of the hon. member foe Montrose. The bon. member had avowed himse If the advocate of the people, ebom he called serfs, but where in the speech of the hon. member for Montrose could any symptom be found of an intention to enfranchise them? (Hear, hear.) The speech of the hon. member refined in his (Mr. Disraeli's) opinion to a class purely imaginary; but whether real or imaginary, no one could I imagine that the project of the tionouraole member for I Montrose had any view of alleriating their position. The plan was not one intended to annihilate 101. house'. olden, neither would it provide the franchise for poets, sleeping or starving under hedges. (Hear, bear.) He could not iota. gine, then, why the hon. member for Oldham should have thought it his duty to give in his adherence to a plan which, according to his (Mr. Disraeli's) view of the case went to increos': the difficulties in the way of granting the franchise to I the classes of whom the hon. member professed himself to be the advocate. With regard to the proposition itself, gentle men on that (the opposition) side of the house stood in a dif. fereot position either from members of the government, or from the hon. member for Montrose and his friends. It was not for them either to defend or to attack the Reform Act — they obeyed it. Wten that act was proposed it was exposed to unrestricted criticism, and perhaps it was all the better for that criticism. But once passed, the g. neral feeling was to obey the law, and the general good sense of the people obviated many defects in the practical working of the measure. But having said that be did not attack or de fend the Re'orm Bill, he did not think that on the motion of the hon. member for Montrose such declaration would justify him in avoiding the difficulties of debate, at a time and Oil k question which promised to be fruitful of difficulty. lie should therefore take the present opportunity of making some observations on a project which had been brought for ward with so much preparation, which had been ro sedu lously pr pared; but the true scope and meaning of which he feared was not clearly understood by the hen. member they had just heard• the eloquent advocate of imaginary serfs and pauper poets. The hon. member for Montrose had been the staunch advocate of fiscal reform. and at every meeting that question had been prominently brought forward as the incentive to political revolution. Similar were the prayers of all the petitions that hod been presented that evening, led yet the hon. member for Montrose had in the course of his speech said little or nothing of fiscal reform. (Hear.) lie (Mr. Disraeli) could easily understand why the gentleman who had just addressed the house had cot dwelt on this cub jest. He was great at statistics, but not such as were usually heard in that house. He could tell the great increase of penny publications, and the amount of railway intellect, and give a list of three publ cations which were founder railway termini and stations. Although these were of importance they did not touch the question of fiscal reform, or the grounds on which the present movement was originally . founded. Ha ueserved to himself the right of giving his opinien very briefly upon theme measures, whatever he might think of their fallacy or their truth. But the house would agree that after Neer month', during which all England had been told that there had been an enormous increase of taxation, and in the expenditure of the government, and this, too, at a period of general disturbance and general revolution—when the people of this country had been told, in order to impress upon them that there ought to be a change hcre in unison with the changes which were taking place in other countries in consequence of our oppressive talatien and oppressive expenditure of government—it was of some importance in such a debate that the house and the country should know whether those pleas were founded in truth—whether th were just or not. (Hear.) lie gave the hon. member for ontrose and his friends the benefit of the admission, that whether the pleas were true or not, however it might damage or benefit the hon. member's position, these were circumstances which did not affect the abstract excellence or nece aity of his measures. (Hear.) One word then as to the enormous increase of taxation,which was the principal reason put forward for this proposed change in our parliament and our constitution. The revenue raised in 1828, from the ordinary resources, was 491 millions in round numbers. In 1848 it was 471 millions. (Hear.) How was it possible then that hon. gentlemen could maintain the position, that the taxation of the country had been oppressively increased ? But this was not all ; the revenue of 1828 was raised from a population of less tnan 23,000,000, while that of 1848 was raised from a popes tioa of, in round numbers. 30,000,000. (Hear, hear.) if they calculated per head the burden of taxation at these two periods, it would be found that while in 1828 I it was 2/. 12s. 2d., in 1848 it was only 1/. 10s. and a fraction. (Cheers.) This was the result on the assumption that the aggregate wealth of the country had increased in the ratio of the population ; but all must allow, for it was proved by the official documents, that the wealth of the country had increased in a much greater ratio then the population. What then became of the plea for political change, which was founded upon the oppressive increase of taxation under the new system introduced by the Reform Act. (Hear, hear.) But it was not only true that the taxation per head new as compared with twenty years ago was infinitely reduced in amount, but there was another circumstance of im portance which must not he forgotten—viz., that there had been a considerable re-distribution _ of taxation, and that in every instance that re bution had been in favour of the working Here was an actual reduction of taxation of rr 2,000,0001. independent of the (nutcase in the • The plea, therefore, for the proposed r plated tonight ad nauseam in every pet had been presented was fallacious and false, andi fluty of those who had offend those petitions to t vindicate the accuracy ". allegaieene they coat come now to '' .ouch on th e measures themselves. 1S 'elm* '' to and had expected to beef from him some lis ' te ge n Y ed we w r i e th cal res le p d ec u t p t o o n tZn in o c n r . eu n:em 'l be re sad down on which the franchise was to be was not asserting that a change was not necessary; he contended was, that when a change was proposed proposing it should lay down some principle on we changestiould proceed. The hon.gentleman told tlee his principle was that every Englishman had a rigt That was his position ; but he talked afterwards founding constitutional rights with the rights ha did not condescend to show in what sr ream, while, over and over again, he sold the right of every subject of the Queen . But, if of every Englishman, why was It nc eessary est for the exercise of that right that he should Ii Then he was to be of legal age. Oh (sleet the for Montrose) the oppression of this country ' 1 here is a man liable to be called out to eve in i eighteen years of age, and therefore every man ! years of age should have a vote." (" Hear," j On what principle was it that the man of !went have the vote while the man of eighteen excluded ? What was meant by legal what had that to do with the right t the commander of her Majesty 'a escort Daps eighteen years of age, and when the population of 18 years of age were liable to militia, and when even school-boys must 10)0:0 comitalus. (Hear, hear, Red cheers.; 7 lad laid (lowa no principle then, and ureue the question as one 01 right, he vie I . the line of distinction could be drawn. He a•:uth:r county toss rideeule cast oe advocating the rights of the other sex ; but so remoning went, how could they in a country formed one of the estates of the realm—whe might be the lady of the manor, and even liable churchwarden, deny to women the right (Leughter ) All this pieced that hothing to do with the question. The bar for Montrose's plan would at franchise millions of adults. All this tended , tbat the suffrage was a trust—it was like everything E ;lend— lut a—ao privilege. It wks a privilege created characteristic of Englee o soc i e ty h a d „ew e " b e , Privilege', not as odious exceptions, general reword , . %Hear.) This brought ' consideration of the character of the House of Cam moos, and the political order of which it was the representative. It was open for discumion at any time what that order should lac—but it was same privileged order whether it was selected be tens of thousanes, or hundreds of thousands—but to say that every- man having a house did have a vote won so absurdity. As he had slid before, he and those who agreed with him were not respon sible for the Reform. Bill. That was a seteeruent un satisfactory to them. They objected to it at the time, and got pelted for their peies A laugh.) But no one could pretend to say that it was not a settlement carried with the full ceueurrence of the majo rity of the people of England. Ile was no:Ale-matt of finality. r" Hears, hear," from Mr. Hume's party.) lie conceived that there might be eircemstances and periods requiring them to do that *Wee they had done far the last 500 years—recoestruct the Commons. (Hear, hear ) He acknowledged that the last construction was morn satisfactory to the voter than the plan now brought forward by the hoo. gen tleman. It was not a project to entrap hiss the serfs of England, or which bade them tae their place in the censti tution of the country. It was characterised by features wholly opposed to the con.idetation and fceliage welch the address of the hon. member fee Oldham suggested. Now if there were any mistake in the bill of '32 more striking . then another, it was taking the qualification of property in too hard ar.d rigid a reuse. And now did the hon. member far Montrose, the great champion of this sow movement, meet that ? Why, by bringing leeward a plan of which property alone was the basis. It was not a plan for giving the suffrage to industry or labour ; and nothing could be more herd or commonplace, or more unsatisfactory to the gee at b ody of the people, than a new coustiteeion which recagnised property, and property alone, as the basis. He conceived that pro perty was sufficiently represented in that house ; and he was prepared to support the settlement of '32 on it he raw .hat the character and neces ities of the country eleatendel a new change; kat when that change did come it should be one which would have more regard for others sentiments, quali ties, and characteristics, than the mere possession of property as • qualification for the exercise and possession of the poetical suffrage. Therefore he protested against being placed in the ceteeory at those who maintained the doctrine of finality because he felt it his duty to opposer an new scheme which had no cheerer but that of novelty, which did not satisfy the wants of the age, and eves cot conceived in the spirit of the times. Respecting the ballot he bad little to observe, as they would have another opportunity of discussing it ful i l: t y. But he thought that there Woo net the slightest doubt adopted, that it would create a great change in the character and habits of the people, and therefore unle u called for by some strong necessity, ought not to be resorted to. He was of opinion 100 that it would not check corruption ; hut both with regard to the mail age and the ballot, he was surprised that hon. gentlemen opposite per. petually target an immer.se element, which in this discussion ought not to be omitted, end that was the influence of opinion by a free press. That he regarded as their best eretectiett against corruption. The way to put down eceruptien was by elevating the tone of public opinion, and bringing the in fluence of public feelirg to bear, through the press, on the great body of the nation. (Hear, hear.) He was equally ineisposed to dwell upon the subject Cl shert parliaments, because no one mold pretend that increased taxation was occasioned by long parlia ments, as they knew that pracisaliy during the eventful period of the last 20 years their parliaments had been just as short as the hon. g• ntl: man proposed. Against triennial parliaments he should not say one word, as they were p.rt of the old tory creed he had ever supported— (ironical cheer-e)—a creed round which be hovel to see the people of this country soon rally. Ha only objection to it was, thee it was a change; end he objected to change without an aloe:tate mei salty. The fourth point was he admitted important—namely, electoral districts. He owed it to the kindeess of a gentle man no longer a memt er of that house, Sir J. Welmsley, to have had placed in his bands the manifesto of the new party, in which the prineiple was broadly laid down that the representation of England should be founded solely upon its population. (Mr. Hume "And property.") Ne, ex cept that it assumed that property was properly tepees nted by taking population for the 'basis. The hon. gentle man who gave in the document celled his attention to Buckinghamshire, which had now eleven members, and under the new system would have only four. He admitted that the county of Buckingham was without great towns ' • but that county had refused to pey ship money, had carried the grand remonstrauce, and, ,itree 1641, had furnished the house with a series of statesmen than whom none had mere contributed to sustain the greatness of the empire, amongst whom were Ilempden, the Grenville, the elder Pitt, and Mr. Burke. (Hear, hear ) Was it to be borne by a population that had pi.e:uc.d such men as those to be told that, because their n embers were We, they were not to have the same share in the representetion u some large towns of the growth of yesterday . (He tr.) It might be no great loss to the house to deprave Buckinguara shire of its members, such as they were new ; but look at its past members. Aod what were the future members the house was to expect from Lancashire ? Sir Joshua Walmsley, the defunct member for Leicester, and others of that party. (Hear, 'seer.) Manchester was to have seven members; only think of that. (Laughter.) Lately there had been virtually only one member for Manchester, the hon. gentleman (Mr. Gibson) having alternately tried his hand at administration and opposition. (Laughter.) The manifests went on to say that Liverpool and Glasgow would each have the same com ber; all " steetistickle " members. (Laughter.) Dublin was to have" six ; Birmingham and Leeds , each five ; Shen field, four ; - teed the metropolis with its various districts up wards of forty. (Hear, hear.) The great objection to this new scheme was that it would give a House of Commons which probably might not be able to govern the country, or which the country would not obey. Even with universal suffrage, it was very poseible for an enliehtened nation to elect all its representatives and then laugh in tittle face. (" Hear," and laughter.) The only two means of government in this country were ancient traditional influence and great properties, around which men rallied. These were the only securities for the maintenence of order and tranquillity. These the Mant hinter school of politicians sought to destroy; but he thought there was s omething better than the rights of men, and that was the rights of Englishmen. (Cheers,) lie wined new chow the house the real character of these measures and what they led to, for there w. s a dangerous consistency in them of which it was well to be apprised. Though the movement might eis , varnished over, and dust thrown in the riles of the people, it I waseogpably a reileile clax movement, and one to wore out the views and objects of that class. (lieu, hear.) He used the term with no disrespect to that class : hut be was leppsed to any clam which, from being successful, sought to became predominant. They had avowed .heir ambition, and given fair warning of their intention. They erelered that they possessed a monopoly of wealth and intel ligence, and we re entitled to a monopoly of power, and that If the government was not a middle-clan goverrn: cat it should cease to exist. (Hear.) Only et the end of the last century had the middle class begun to exercise a decided political influence. The first great MIAMI , whirl, they effected was the abolition of the slave trade. But they had not passed the Ten Hours' Bill ; and even the abolition of the slave trade had not turned out so fathom... l ,ly as was desired. Then they tried their hand at parliamentary reform, and carried the Reform Bill; but in doing so they entirely de stroyed the industrial fmnchiseawithoutsubstituuog a new our Having failed in colonial and parliamentary reform, th tried commercial reform. They carried it, he would not by what means, but the interests of capital were looke is that measure ; and then the interests of the middle r were not considered. (Cheers.) The middle classes told that they must take their chance, and be abs• the great mass of the population. In r form he should like to know what there was for the middle classes. Not there no sympathy, but there existed a leen• contrary character. What was the remedy nos all diseases? A new scheme of financial ref° . Mellon of the burdens of taxation, and a re from the people to realised property. The' avowed object of all these measures. It w people that they would be relieved by be ity d to hugs • WM Jiimci is flat re sy mpathy only was ag of quite a pr0i.....d for rm, a reqbstri• movel of them • had been the as false to tell the ce O ,ystem introduced by the Reform Act. (Hear, L. ar.) contrary character. weat W 6 7. WV a cum . w.y re ma r ; • alg of - quite a is not only true that the taxation per head new as all diseases ? A new scheme of financial / proposed for lwith twenty years ago was infinitely reduced in Millen of the burdens of taxation, and arr an, a redistri. but there was another circumstance of fin- from the people to realised property. The ' =oval of th em awe far stork az;ci a. • had been the which must not he forgotten—viz., that avowed object of all these measures. It w lad been a considerable re-distribution of people that they would be relie . ::: r ly ...., bi ,_ ring the bunen of and that in every instance that re-distri- taxation thrown on realised pro . perts: , had been in favour of the working classes. would that be to the workuir at ttlat et,. ii;V:lll4tin- ta an actual reduction of taxation of more than wages which they would want -co. )1. independent of the increase in the population. the house that this was ne• gr . enaent, and there ea, therefore, for the proposed change, re- was not a gentleman . '' , o h tonight ad nauseant in every petition which coura t ge t m to h g t e l t up end toam s o tt r y , g th li.,... ..... e . p.n. , had the a presented was fallacious and false, and it tecame the that ig teat the people did not want :hose who had offered those petitions to the house to all the rre l aotte .., ,ihi T eh he we bo re n. , nv .rnteitt.wreare.me'lehtteeey Montrose ' lie from ••• ' the accuracy rant e alleitaii"" they container. •._ , the noble lord say'. 'resented in favour n of it arose proved too mush "' t‘. ' ouch on the measures themselves. In the Lest I " - orxri. The hon. • ' thietn.tleamaThe consequence of this ey were called upon to increase '_te trt . nes,...".• ....e I setelm he stated of the middle classes to obtain coed with respect to thl non. member 1_ .dontrose i erganised agitation measure for which they had for the last i 1 expected to beef from him some principle laid t e u , grfla on which the franchise was to he extended. Pas twenty years agitate I England had 'seen that a new proles. 'pr,fession the result of the organi‘ations I asserting that • change was not news:sari ; but - what lion had arisen—a Ina°01;0; jorfaised had tsehilownthe ended was, that when a change wliantuPese_d, 4 t b , c .'e. party necessar . y h to f cane, , this measure. This profession was the ag it should lay down some principle d on wi II s uch profess& . 4 , agitators, in which there were gentlemen who should proceed. The hon.gentlemantol 0.,e house that were ch -amen, deputy chairmen, veretaries, committee- ,ciple was that every Englishman had a right to a vote. men missionaries, lecturers, and orators. Now, it was this &3 his position ; but he talked . afterwards of not con- w' . inch produced the great question, and when th ' e pcmat Nes. ig constitutional rights with the rights of man. !us , sure was gained it was the ruin of the profession. (Laughter.) 1 i not condescend to show in what was the d de- The chairman had no chair, the committee had no business, while, over and over again, he mid . the vote the the lecturer was idle, and the orator was silent. The pro- f every subject of the Queen. But, if it OC4 the right fession " went" at it to find out a great question, to do wit.th y Englishman, why was it tucessaryasth. qualification was the most difficult thing in the world. After the fr,e- exercise of that right that he should live in a house trade triumph the profession were eager for further supply; se was to be of legal age. Oh (ss.:d the ::on. member and though tr..: bon. member for the West !tidies of York- ,ntrose) the oppression of this country is intolerable ; shire was sa , i , lied with his lairds, that was co reason that a man liable to be called out to serve in the militia at the lecturer, the missionary, -ad others, wera to be satisfied. en years of age, and therefore every man of twenty-one They looked out fora new q . -eation, and they got one. T. if age should have a vote." (" Hear," and a laugh.) prove how such great questions were got up, he read to the iat principle was it that the man of twenty-one was to house a report of a meeting of the New League at Manches- the vote while the man of eighteen was to be ter, which was attended by Mr. Cobden, Mr. Bright, and ed ? What was meant by legal age I—or Mr. Wilma, and at which opinions were expressed ' had that to do with the right to vote, when in favour of hoesehold suffrage, triennial parliaments, >reminder of her Majesty's escort was not per- and electoral divisions, and also a circular, in which ighteen years of age, and when the whole male the league wished to ascertain the feelings of ,tion of 18 years of age were liable to eery.: in the several individuals on the above-nientioned quetion. , and when eve n school-boys must join in the To this was attached the signature of—he would not say the 1 wnsitarns. (Hear, hear, and cheers.; The hon. mem- distinguished bat the well-known—'Sr. 0. Wil , ..n. lie . ad laid down no principle then, and if they were to had now shown to the house, without exaggeration, the • the question as one of right., he cent I not s , . where I manner iii which these thirs t s were brought out. (lieu, re of distinction could be drawn. He had seen in hear.) He had shown that the movement was factitious, and . . r count. y sosc ridi,ailc cast ors a person for La popular. It Li thC gam:laovemcut which had doraaalcd l I ding the rights of the other sex ; but so far as abstract commercial reform that was now demanding financial ru- ing went, how could they in a country where a woman form • and the result would be the same—disaster and diem,. , . l one of the estates of the realm—where a woman 'point:neut. (Hear, hear.) The moral which he drew be the lady of the manor, sod even liable to serve as from this system of organised agitation, got up lot iwarden, deny to women the right of voting ? the aggrandisement of a too ambitious class was titer) All this proved that right had this. He asked himself why the people were force.l i l l i g to do with the question. The bun. mem- to look f•r their leaders amongst this, a,"s - d--e. tar Montrose'l plan would at once el's- persons and not amongst th, gentlemede of Rsighniel 7 . 7 wio ~.. ise millions of adults. All this tended to show were their natural leaders; far unless Ow were the lead 71 ,e suffrage was a trust—it was like everything else in of the people, he saw ne wagon why they gleould he geodes, ad—a privilege. It w a s a privilege created by law. men, (Laughter.) It wubecame the genallemen of &Wind ....! metathetic of Engli;:n society had always been, that were negiigent of the duties of their staLl "J ..14, 1 3lrustasd* 'el out out privileges, not as odious exceptions, but al , what were properly their functions to b:, yes igao,ll6 ti rewards. %Hear.) This brought him to tael that had their owe ebjects and era . r, . ak j'i . .9 , I • i Q Z W >