The Express. — London, England, 1851-04-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIA'AENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.--NIONDAT, liana( 31. TI N Loan thaoseeettoii teoh hit vat at five o'clock. III:SINESS IN CHANCERY. Lord BROUGHAM moved for returns for the lase ten lean of the number of cues wrier the Winding-up and Railway Acts in Chancery. Lord MONTEAGLE said the business could not be esti mated in a numerical point of view alone ; most of the castor had emended to an enormous len g th. lie suggested some addition to the return", which, having been agreed to, they were ordered. CHANCERY REFORM. Lord LYNDIICROT said their lordships would have perceived that a statement had been made by the noble lord at the bead of the government with reference to • mea. Iran for the purpose of regulating the duties of his noble egad learned friend on the woolsack ; and no doubt they knew also, from other sources, that a bill was about to be introduced into that boo's with reference to the a ppellate jeirieiliction of their lordship s and the duties of his noble Mid learned friend in that house. With due deference to noble lords opposite it appeared to him a siugular and ex traordinary mode of proceeding that there should be two Leo re lating to the Court of Chancery and the judicial Detainee. of that house, so closely and intimately connected m as they were with each other ; for it appeared to hi Impossible fairly to discuss one branch of the question with ered having the other before them; and it was demonstrable that 1.8 one bill wee to he introduced into the House of Oint mom and the other into their lordship,' house, that either that or the other house would have to diaellat the subject with only one of the measures before them. If his noble Sad learned friend was to continue to he a substantive mem ber of the Court of Chancery-if his name as president of that court was not to be a mere form (awl he should very much regret that losing the caw), the extent of the duties., which he would be able to perform in that court must de pend in some measure on the extent of the duties of their e i golishios' h o use, ond what he would be able o perform in their lonl.hips.' house must also have reference t to the extent of his dutiess in the Court of Chaneery. How, then, was it possible fairly and perperly, to discuss the merits of this measure, if one hill was to be introdneed into the other homer of parliament, and the other into their lordships' house. (Year, hear.) There was another poura ble ewe to which he would advert, and it was far (men toeing an impossible ram. in the prisoent elate of the other house of parliament; one of thew bills might he Iwo and the other earrhal, and the consequence would be to throw our courts. of judicature into a state of most inextricable confusion. Sow, what were the reao.ne which lie had beard minim a-A in favour of this singular course of pro- ceeding ?It had he Said that the bill with reference to their lerelshito appellate jurisdiction' could not originate in the Bloom of Commons - it would he inconsistent with the privilege. of their lordships to introduce it there. He wonted to that proproition ur ite fullest terms ; but, unless. be was very much misinformed, there war in this very bill • clause with rlopeet to the appellate jurisdiction of their 1.4.114140, trenching upon that juriolictiou, and curtailing! it is twist important particulars. But he would pars that over for the present. Ile would ask their lordship, then, why the whole measure Was not late... Need into their lordship.' house ? -what vesa...n was there lor this division of subject attended with the Meow viaittacteind hazards wkichhe had fee:melte ? They could have embraeol the whole subject, and he believed there was not a single inetance with respect to a bill relating to the judicature of the Court of Chancery which haul not °intik ite.l in tin it lordships' house. 'there was not an as sembly in the world so calculated to perfect a measure of that L i nd as the assembly he then hail the honour to &A dm., (If whom did it consist ? Ili. noble and learned intuit im the woobsook -experienced in law, and mortising now in equity ; two noble biol., both of whom had for see vital years held the °thee of Lord Chancellor, and one of whom- his noble and learned friend Lord Brouatioa from the tooment of Ms retirement from office, and up to the pr...nt time, had continued Assiduously to at tool to appeal. in their lordship,' hOltre--enenetinits sitting with lb Lord Chancellor, and not unfrequently Ultimo alone. In Altai to these noble and learned persons, then! War hi* wade anil learned friend who bad jog nit. it wi th ire and reputatiou from the Ideatership of the Itolia an than whom no one could be found more elowly and intim silly Acquainted with the pr....tire of the Court of Chancery in all it bearing.. I la addition to, there , he audit name his noble and learned ' Fro o a who had event', lesisime a member of their lord-' ships' h0w..., and who, with the exception of the few yeurs, during which he had dietinieui.heel himself as a common law judge, had attended the whole of his life in the courts of ispiity. Then there was. another noble owl honied lord, lodditio a high, all 1.1111i11 , 11t '4.16111. hie alluded to his o.ili- sail humid friend the Chief Justice of the Quien'e Bunch. who for a few die. was a spots." of postulant is ,Ise I fish et of Clianeery (loud laughter) - sad had emu most constantly and perseveringly attended the spinals in their lordships house. All of these noble sad learned per-moos were emitieutly qualified fur the con. aiderotion ..f aqueetion of this sort 'then there were other persons in their lord.hiro' house areiestomol to judicial and he would ads, again, under such eireurnetanree, why, in stead of allowing the hill to originate in th.ir lord ships' t0e..., ate... Ming to former precedent, this practice, is the mowed inetonee, had le en deported from ? (How.) But what hail bees the result of this determinatirm of the ouvenonent 'l'bis 1.111 was promised divine the last us lion of parliament. 'then there was the whole vacation te emoisler and lotion. it, awl it wa. promioal aitain in her Mj.sayo oeeesli leen the throne noovithstautling which upward. of two mouths hot elapsd, m i l only just on the eye ..1 Easter they bad one intimation of what was lola the same .4 ill. in. ,o ens. It wa. now...able that it could he disclosed until alter the Laster rice., and the house wool.' not, tie refine, Ile in .if the merits of the hill until thee month. after the ominienrement of the ...se nora I bar. hear.) Ilrl the hid originated in their lord. Woos' loose, it would hare been considered, matured, perf. sled, snit have been sent down to the other house of partonsent twforeihie period. Were it not that • parent would look with eumplaceney even OA hi. rieketty offsprolit, he shield h iv, supieo.el that the noble lord at the• head of the govensonent would have thought it inomeieteat to put the bill into the hush of his noble and learned friend on the woolsack, • bill scoffs...l at by the whole prof...ohm, a • purportine to add etreirittli to the Court of Chancery ; instal of which. it impaired the ettiriency of that court, a measure which it we 'aid pe Would hove the effect of dimi nishing the apal. to their lortlehiry.' house, hut which would have an evident tendency to augment them. (Hear.) Look at this psoition of thine, *gentleman of great ability and competency raircil to the esoition of Master of the lion., and to sit with a common law judge at his aide to decide appeals from men of great learning, eeperienee, and foreeight in the proceedinge of the Court ..1 ('hamety, arid what was the onocquence ? Outs pose the derision of the court below to lie reversed by this tribunal -did they imagine that the Party ninsiont whom the ri , verral was prnonnevil, would arquicere in the judg ment ? Certainly out. There wool.' be an appeal to their lord , tiip% hour.% and the consequence would be that the intermediate appeal would be entirely Ile had loud it ...MI that. for the purpose of obviating this manitist isemoreliesiuse, there War to lx' a power. as to the appellate tribunal, ta curtail the right of appeal to their lorilehips' house to infringe upon their lord.hipe' high privikgee. If that were so -and he hoped he hall teen misinennual on th e . u tipset --his walk and learned friend would be able to tell him if he hail been -what con.equence must follow ? It would be this, that, as there would he two ultimate tri bunal*, sometimes their rhaisione would to' at variance one with the other, and if so, ,m any subsequent oceaeion when the mote roint anew the iineurceseful party would appeal to that ultimate tribunal which hail decided the question is his favour. (Hear.) Ile would pass this part of the subj.-et us, r with thew obeervationt, but he hail been told that there a• 10 another reassm why this Mearore haul teen introduced into the other house of parliament it was a part of this measure t,. tranefer, by a kind of sleight-of•hand movement, all the cherish patronage of his nolo, and learned fritiul on the woolawk from him into the lap of the tlrst lord of the treasury, already su ffi ciently loaded with patron.ute of this downption. Now, the noble lord s s Lord J. 1t0...e11) had been worsted of late in many encounters with his opp.wlihts, and he now turned upon his friends, and robbed one of his colleagues - so :such 'ti. sale, through the ramp to ga, Ant rub a sabrct than to spoil a foe. (Cheer. and laughter.) The noble hod at the bead of the government must take such a measure under his own pro tection- he could not ask hie noble and learned friend to introduce and bob r it --he could nut call upon him to com mit such a suicidal act. (.. Hear, hear." and a Loth.) Ile war sure. if the bill hail been introduced to their lordships' house, it never, to that extent, would have received their assent. (Loud cries of hear, hear.") And what were the fearous anditind fur such a step Store flimsy and fallacious mown. for a great political meaeure never were presented to the public. (Rear, hear.) First, a grave charge was poi:Tool ,ulainet those pereun. who had held the high entice of lard t'hancellor. One of the reasons assigned was. that the church patronage hail been applied by the keeper , of the great .sal to parse purposes. ILu denied the troth of that statement. (Ilear:hear,i Nothing a m ok% he more eaered than the trii.t reposed in the Loot Chancellor of distributing eceleeiaetical patronage. But he would Ade their lordships one question : if they supposed anythino of this kind dill exist in the dietribution of church patmnage, was it lens likely to he dietributed from party motive. in the hands of the First Lard of the Treasure than in thee of the Keeper of the (treat seal ? (Loud corer. of hear.") If once it got into the Treasury sortex they all knew that the Secretary of the Treasure would apply it fur party purpose. of a most objectiona ble character, with • view to constitnencies and elections. (Hear, hear.) But another reason had been assigned for this extraordinary measure. It was said that his noble and learned friend on the woolsack was oppressed with his heavy duties, and it was neces sary to Macy.• him of port of him burden. This, however. could only he eonei4ered as • relief upon the principle that it was the last feather which broke the back of the camel. fur it was only 3 feather in the scale of the dutiew of the toed Chanceilor. (Rear. hear.) Another reason had hero alleged, almost too flimsy to he worth notice, namely, that whereas the Lord Chancellor appointee! by his mere fiat. the First Lord of the Treroure would appoint directly from the crown. Why, did they not know the manner in which the duty was performed, and that it might be transacted by any clerk ? (Hear. hear.) A short letter was written, stating that a vacancy had oc curred, sail it eras proposed to till it in such and such away This was ap .uved of se • matter of course, ..ud it was a, swam &bidet* tment ail if the First Lord of the Trea sury was awestroll d. But there was yet another reason to whit* he must advert even at the risk of wearying their lordship.. This alteration bad been receipts...ailed by a ementittee of the Horace of Commons-a committee of 'Wham of the flint lord of she treasury hail in- HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, MARcn 31. The took the chair at a quarter to four o'clock. ALTERATION OF STANDING ORDER. Mr. W. PATTEN, in pursuance of notice, moved that the following be inserted, instead of the standing order No. 128:--" That in every railway bill, by which it is pro posed to authorise the company to grant any preference or priority in the payment of interest or dividends on any shares or stock, there be inserted a clause, providing that the granting of such preference or priority shall not pre judice or affect any preference or priority in the payment of interest or dividend.* on any other shares or stock which shall have been granted by the company, in pursuance of, or which may have been confirmed by any previous act of par liament, or which may otherwise be lawfully subsisting, unless the committee on the bill reports, that such altera tion ought to be allowed, with the reasons on which the opinion is founded." The subject was one on which the house had already expressed a very strong opinion. The present standing order was in many cases of a very imprac ticable character. In some cases its operations were tai -1 tamount to a total denial of justice. There was a case in point at present heron!. the house. After some discussion the motion was =creed to. ST. ALBANS ELECTION. Mr. E. ELLICE, jun., appeared at the bar of the house and stated, on behalf of the committee appointed to try the validity of the St. Alberni election, that certain parties had kept themselves, or allowed themselves to be kept , out of the way, so th at! they might not be served with the Speaker's warrant to give evidence before the committee. One of these parties had been particularly active in pea misting the election of the sitting member. He (Mr. Ellice) was instructed to apply to the house that the caw mitt...• might have leave to adjourn till Thursday next, it order that they might have further opportunity of serving I the writs and prosecuting the inquiry. Leave of adjournment was granted. PUBLIC BUSINESS. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Mr. Emotes Mac/trent, a new writ was Ordered for the borough of Enniskillen, vacant by the resignation of the Hon. IL A. Cole. THE BALI.OT. Mr. 11. BERKELEY gave notice that he would on an early day after Easter ask the permission of the house to bring in a hill to give protection to the voter by the adop tion of the Ibillot. (Cheers. MORTALITY IN ItUsH UNION WORKHOUSE. Mr. REYNOLDS gave notice that to-morrow he would ask the Chief Secretary of State for Ireland a question con eerning the morta lity R in Sthe EXPE NS Rush Union Workhouse. AIH ES Mr REYNOLDS gave notice that to-morrow he would ask the Chief Commissioner of the Pour-law Board if there were any clause in the Oct the the relief of the destitute to enable vestries to expend the pour rates otherwise than in the relief of the poor. WINDOW TAX, Viwount DUNCAN begged to postpone his motion for the repeal of the window tar, which was on the paper fur to-morrow, until Tuesday, the Bth of April. PETITIONS.—concrs OF CHANCERY AND EXC 11 EQUEIt (I REL AN D). Sir T. O'BRIEN moved foe a return of all petitions lightest in the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer, Ireland (under and by virtue of I & 2 Vie., c. 1119, " An act to abo- Isah composition. for tithes in Ireland, and to substitute rent charier. in lieu thereof"), for the appointment of re redeem for the recovery of arrears of tithe rent charges, specifying for what amount of tithe rent charge some were presented napectivelr; also, the parish and county in re- sleet of which said tithe rent charge accrued ; also specify ing, in each caw, if receiver appointed, his name : also, the name of the solicitor and attorney to each petition, and order thereon respectively, for ten years, ending in 1840. I'RECEDENCE GIVEN BISHOPTO R S. OMAN CATHOLIC A Lord J. MANNERS had a question to uk the noble lord at the head of the government. In the year 18-17 Earl Grey and the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland hail issued certain instructions, whereby precedence was given to all Itoman catholic archbishops over all sulframuis of the colonial and Irish churches ; and this, not by the will or desire of the Pope, but by virtue of their nomination to the office by the Pope. lie (Lord J. Manners) coked whether these instruc tions were still in force ; and if so, whether there were any intention on the part of the noble lord to recap or modify them ? Lent J. RUSSELL—The instructions referred to by the noble lord (Lord J. Menaces) are still in force, and there does not at present exist any intention of altering them. (Ilene, hear.) TIIP. RAJAH BROOKE—BORNEO. Sir E. N. Br XTON asked whether it was the intention of Mr. Ilunte to bring on his motion to-morrow regarding the proceedings on the west coast of Borneo ? Mr. Ill: ME said it was his intention to bring the motion on to-morrow. unless then were valid objections to it on the part of the government. lii. motion would be for an ad- dee.. for a royal commission to inquire interne proceedings on the west must of llonnso involving the conduct of the Rajah Brooke. The proceitalinirs referred to were those which took pine nn the list of July, 1849, when don Dyaks were mas sacred. Subsequently 'Mr. Hume, at the request of the government, postponed this motion until the arrival of the Rajah Ilruoke in England. TILE KAFFIIt WAR. Lord J. RUSSELL poitionell until Thursday (10th April) his motion for a select eumnsituie to inquire into the re lations between this country and the Kaffir and other tribes on our Sonth African frontier. (Hear, hear.) Mr. 111331 E uuderstood the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had putpinsed his motion on the subject of the Kadin. lie (Mr. Hume) begged to ask whether any measure had been taken to forward a government them ? At present he be lieved there was no constitutional government, and that a military despotism was the sole governing power. The matter was one of great importance, fur every shilling ex penthal came from the pockets of the people of England. Mr. HAW dlrs was understood to reply that certain resig nations had taken place connected with the government of the colony. Fur that, however, the governor was not re and the government was still in full force. LORD JOHN RUSSELL'S NEW REFORM BILL. Mr. 11. BERKELEY begged to ask the noble lord the member for the City of London (Lord John Russell), whether, in his (the noble lord's) new plan of electoral reform, he intended to introduce the ballot (Laughter.) lord J. Itt'SSELL.—The hon. member must encase me from answering the question now. (Renewed laughter.) THE INCOME TAX (IRELAND). Mr. COItBALLY wished to know if the hon. member for Marylebune (Sir B. 1141) intended to persist in his mo tion for exteuiting the income tax to Ireland, and when it would be brought on ? Sir B. lIALL replied that if the income tax were re newed as regards Great Britain, it was his (Sir IL Hall's) Mullikin to move that the tax should be extended to Ire land. The time of bringing on the motion must of comae depend on the proceedings of the Chancellor of the Exam quer, and on whether the house decided that the tax SS income should he renewed. THE DEANERY OF MANCHESTER. Mr. M.OIBSON wished to ask the noble lord at theirs& of the government (Lord J. Russell) a question in referents to the Deanery of Manchester. Ile hail to ask whether, when Dr. Bower was appointed Dean of Mancheater, there had been an understanding of the duties which might be imposed on future holders of the office ? Lard J. Itt'SSELL said that when the present Dean of Mantlirnter had been appointed, he (Lord J. Russell) hart ' Warmed hint that he would be expected to conform to whets,. r new arrangements might be made; and he (Lord S. Russell) holiest and trusted that the dean (Dr. Bower) would not object to any ;conciliatory arrangement. He (Lord J. Russell) had not. however, at the time made any arrangement which would be binding on Dr. Bower. THE STAMP DUTY ON MONTHLY PUBLICA TIONS. Mr. SCIIOLEFIELD begged to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether in the practice of the Bard of In land Revenue all monthly publleations containing news are heist liable to the payment of the stamp duty ; also what Is the rause of the delay in the prosecution of the suit against the publication of an unttamped newspaper, edited by Mr. Charles Dickens, and called The Household A-orne rier of Current Errata ? TheCHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who was felt ditinetly heard. was understood to reply that the ques tke at to whether any publications were liable to stamp duty w matter of law, awl one on whirls he declined to give , A . cinders. The dailies prosecuting the suit against The Itort.etudd Aitrratire of Current Events had arisen, be believed, in emsequenee of some disagreement between the solicitor and the authorities of the Inland Revenue Odes , upon certain points. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD thought the right hon. member , THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY kVENING, APRIL 1, 1851 .----- ._.. eratigated the matter in the a%il of the - 104 1 (the Cbsbeellor of4le Efterassqueryied 'Misapprehended his C h ance llor, there b e i ng no parent{ to reptesent l first qdilltlgialle.(Met`Fseliblefield).did not with the right ! him, and they came to the tra =ltr, forasoths 1 lion.Weittl to decilothe point of law as to what MU- I that it was desirable that the pa ld 1111000 a I Raided's" °newspaper. Hie question had been whether a from the •Lerd Chancellor and w a s to the Fitatberd shied monthly peffilicattAs cos ig n i ng Daiwa was a newsra par ? 1 the Treasury. (Hear.) Ten it was miff that *shied i The CHAY.n.:ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the I Chan sellor was originally an euelesiaetia, onllthis pa point Newt tate of laW, and he must decline giving en was vented in him to enable to him reward his officers. 'Why, opaline' On it. SAVINGS BANKS. no ecclesiastic bad filled the of fi c e for more than 200 years. He had thought it necessary to state these facts preparatory I Me. 11. HERBERT sake& the Chancellor of the Ee to the question which he was about to put to the noble 1 chequer whether the Registrar of Friendly Societies was lord opposite. He wished, then, to know why the untal . authorised by the government, or by the commissioners fur practice in similar easel had been departed frum—why ad this the reduction of the national debt, to state at a public meet measure had been divided into two bills, and why oat hing, held at St. Helen's, In April, 1850, that a bill would been brought into the other house of parliament, and the without doubt be immediately passed by the legislature other, of which they at pre s ent had no knowled g e. was to giving to depositors in savings hanks government security , be introduced into that house ? He should be glad to re - for their investments ; and whether it was under the ceive a reply either from the noble earl (Grey) or the noble sanction of either the government or the commissioners for and learned lord on the woolsack. (Hear, hear.) the reduction of the national debt, that the said Registrar The LORD CHANCELLOR, though not so well ac- of Friendly Societies recommended at St. Helen's the for quainted with the rules of the house as Lord Lyndhurst, mation of a new institution (the old one having failed), and could not help thinking that his noble friend had entirely advised parties to deposit their savings, on the grounds that forgotten those rules. The bills which he had been con- future frauds would be impossible ; and whether the govern menting upon were no hills at all, for they had not yet been ment will be responsible for any losses that may accrue to introduced into either house . The question of Chancery depositors, either at St. Ilelen sor elsewhere, who may reform was one of immense difficulty, and discussions on it have been induced by the advice of this public officer to in hail often taken place in their lordships house. Under vest their money ins savings bank? such circumstances, he did not think it extraordinary that The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that Lord Jahn Russell should have brought forward a similar the government were not responsible for any statements discussion in the House of Commons. Ile would only add made under the circumstances referees' to. He could not in conclusion, that he thought the course taken by his of course then state what views the government might hold noble friend, in plunging into this irregular discussion, was on the various questions relating to savings banks ; but this little calculated to increase the respect felt for their lord- he might say, that although the registrar spoken of had in 1 ships house. his private capacity made statements at a public m eetin g , Lard BROUGHAM said th a t the Lord Chancellor had the government were not to be bound by them. called Lord Lyndhurst's question irregular and extraordi- I METROPOLIS BUILDINGS BILL. nary, but he thought his noble friend's answer still more YY 1 Mr. B. OSBORNE begged t o ask the noble lord at the ex t ra ordinary, inasmuch as it was no answer at all, for ter- head of the Woods and Forests (Lord Seymour) what course tainly there must have been a reason for introducing the I bill into the House of Commons in the first instance, and 1 . inten d e d .. pursue he towith regard to the Metropo li s Build ings Bill, which was set down on the paper for that night ? yet they were not told what that reason wae. It was a question in which some discussion would be neces- After some further discussion, in which Lord GREY and mew and it was to be trusted th at the bill would not be Lord REOESI.AI.II joined, the matter dropped. • t brought on at so late an hour that discussion on it would be Their lordships asljournedshaetly before seven o'clock. ----._ prevented. 1 Lord SEYSIOUR replied that he would not bring on • the bill in question at an hour when discussion on its merit, would be precluded. THE ARMY IN INDIA. Colonel DUNNE begged to ask the Secretary-at-War (Mr. F. Maule) whether the government intended to carry out the system of relieving the regiments in India? Mr. F. MAULE said that as far as practicable the go vernment intended to earry out the practice, so that the regiments might not remain more than fifteen years. Of course there would be exceptions made where the public service required them. The house then passed to the order of the day. On the' order for going into committee of supply, I Mr. ILUME said the house would neollect that on F ri day night, after voting 9/4,711 men, a proposition was ma to vote 3,521,000/. for the charge of the land forces. He was a member of the committee which had been sitting fur three years upon the army estimates. In the committee a variety of questions had been raised, but nothing had been decided. 1 heave question+ related to the civil administration of the army, and as to whether great economy might be et fected in it. Amongst other matters which were under consideration were the questions of agency and of commis sariat, and clothing. It would be impossible to effect any reduction if they were at once to vote the whole of the money. Ile had propoeed to the noble lord to take a vote en account ; hut the noble lord did not agree to that. He I moved that no further supplies be granted till the fivan , eial statement was made. Mr. S. CRAWFORD seconded. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, supposing the only object of the amendment to be the obt ainin g a re newal of Lord J. Russell's engagement that the budget should be brought forward on Friday, gave his assurance I that the financial statement should be made on that day, unless prevented by circumstances which lie certainly could I not foresee. He therefore urged Mr. Hume not to impede 1 the course of public business. Mr. E. ELLICE also urged Mr. Hume to allow the estimates to proceed. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that the complaint was, that the budget hail not been produced before public money had i been demanded, and he did not think the govcrnmeut wen l delierving of the favour their a,ked. Mr. S. Crawford, Mr. is owatt,asked. and Mr. Wakley said a' few word., after which The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said if he hail not been distinct enough before, he now distinctly stated that he should make hi, statement on Friday next. Mr. S. CRAWFORD said he must divide on this mo tion, no answer having been given to the questions that he hail put. Stringers were then ordered is withdraw, but before they had done so, Mr. HUME withdrew his motion. The house then went into committee of supply, Mr. Dru mat in the chair. On the first cote for 3,521,070/. for the charge of her '-'s laud forces at home and abroad, except in India, Shan they lisd Millions a year more upon OUT arena,...-- done since 1828. (Hear, hear.) Mr. V. 8/4 1 .7111 complained that the debate was very irregular ; Mid that the hon. member (Mr. Hume) had been Weak* , neither to the original motion nor to the amend• moat. lie for on must deprecate the practice of t a aking ' votes on amount. e (Cheers.) The result he hadalways found to be, that when the brat part of the sum was taken the discussion was postponed; and of course when the other part was asked for it was always too late to debate upon it. (Cheers and laughter.) Thus there was no dis cussion either at one stage or the other. Mr. FOX MAULE quite agreed with the right hon. gentleman who had spoken last as to the system of taking Totes on account having a tendency to stifle discussion; but he must say that the right hon. gentleman had been rather too hard upon the hon. member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), whose remarks had been perfectly legitimate to the occasion. (Hear, hear.) With respect to that gentle man's objection to the maintenance of the Body Guards, ho entirely differed from him for various reasons. In the first instance, he looked upon the Guards as part of the state and royalty of the monarch. (Cheers.) In the next place, he looked upon them as the guard of this vast and wealthy metropolis; and with respect to the proposi tion of the hon. member to make all the regiments do duty at court in rotation, he believed that the proposition would meet with general opposition from the army itself. After a few words from Mr. HexE in reply, Colonel REID, who spoke from under the gallery, was understood to admit that the number of officers In the Guards was proportionately greater than in the,line but to con t e nd that the o ffi cers of the guards served the state I gratuitously. They paid very high for their commissions. Mr. MOWATT wished to know the number of troops left in New South Wales, when they were likely to be removed, and when the same system would be applied to Canada ? Mr. F. MAULE was understood to say that the number of troops now in New South Wales was 1,000. It was not the intention of government at present to remove those troops ; but he trusted the time would come when it would ' be possible to do so. In Canada, they were not prepared at present to reduce the troops any further. (Hear.) Col. DUNNE said the large proportion of officers in the Guards was most unjust. The evidence taken before the I i committee on the estimates showed that, in the Guards, the proportion of superior officers to the men was 1 to 74; while in the cavalry it was 1 to 337 ; and in the regiments of the line Ito 617. That was a most unjust disproportion; and the result was, that the higher ranks and rewards of the service were given chiefly to Guardsmen. The pay of a colonel of the Guards was 4961.; allowances, 1271.; making a total of 6231.: whilst those two sums in the line only amounted to 331/. In the Guards majors of the highest class received 6701., of the lowest 532/. Ifis., besides allow ances. The captains in the Guards, who were lieutenants colonel, received in pay and allowances 434/. ; in the line it was 239/. It was said the officers in the Guards paid more for their commission ; but thew got the advantage in rank and higher pay. rutting all these things together, it would be found that they were a very expensive corps. Mr. MACGREGOR wished to make some observations on 1 1 this as a financial question. Considering that three millions of the taxes were involved in that vote, he thought it would be trifling with the constitution to pass it hastily. The statement of the Right Hon. Secretary-at-War was as satisfactory as any he had ever heard; still he thought it possible greatly to reduce the amount of the vote by limit ing military duty in this country and also in the colonie s, especially in the North American colonies. In the Canadas there was a militia of 120,000 men, all as good shots as any in the British army. In addition to these, a few com panies of regular troops stationed at Montreal and other large towns would be amply sufficient. In New South Wales, 100 or 200 men would be quite sufficient. Ile dial not believe that the inhabitants generally had any wish for the retention of the troops on account of the money they spent. In Ireland, exclusive of the regular trains, there was another army in the shape of the constabulary force. Mr. HUME said he should not withdraw his amendment, and repeated some of the arguments which he had urged in its support. Colonel LINDSAY said the rank at present enjoyed by officers of the Guards had been given them at a time when there were only 17 regiments in the army, of which 11 were only raw levies, hastily raised by noblemen to resist the Duke of Monmouth. While the Guards had only one general officer, in the line there were three. He contended that there was no cause to complain of extrava gant expenditure in respect to the household troo;:s. Col. ESTCOUICF, who spoke from the hack bench, com pletely under the gallery, was understood to complain that the system adopted with regard to good conduct alto s auces was such as to operate very injuriously on a very me ritorious class of non-commisaioned officers—the sergeants. Col. DUNNE denied that he had made any misstatement as to the relative proportion of officers in the Guards and the line. In answer to Mr. HENLEY, Mr. F. MAULE said that, as regarded savings banks, the number of depositors up to March, 1850, according to the returns was 7,8.59, and the amount deposited 94,9611 . , and comprehended neither those interested in the benefit societies nor the funds belonging to them. There could be I s wish to conceal in any way . the funds expended; I ' - would be most • to give an annual account of Majesty' s '' -- —, - ,- Mr. HOME said the house would recollect that during and he ...,-___ _ happy to give e. the last two seesions they had adopted the course of giving how the funds were expended. In no case were they ex a vote on account. If that course were taken now, there pended without the consent of the commanding officer, and would be time to consider the recommendations of the sanctioned by the Secretary at War. committee before the sestina was closed. He moved, as an Sir D. L. EVANS said it was important that the amendment, that two millions be granted on account. difference between the Guards and the regiments of the Mr. FOX MAC LE said on fOrmer °cued ~,, * he had not line should be noticed. It appeared on the minutes of the least objection to taking a vote on account, but on this evidence of more than ;one enininittee that officers of the I oceassion he slid not see any advantage in going into corn- Guards obtained higher rank eight or ten years . caner than inane again on this vote. Supposing the estimates corn- did officers of the line ; in other words, the highest steps mime were to report that a change should be made on the 1 in rank were obtained by officers in the Guards in one subject of clothing, or of the commissariat, the arrangements I third of the number of years they were in the line. (Hear.) neeemary fur making that change he did not think could The inference was, that an average of twenty years' service be made in the financial year. The only thing he could on the banks of the Thames was equivalent to thirty years' meanie: would be that the government would be prepared service on the banks of the Sutlej or in Kallirland. to adopt it in the ensuing year. lie, therefore, thought the Sir IL VERNEY tugged to assure the lion. and gallant house would Mate its time by nt once agreeing to the vote. officer (Sir De Lacy Evans) that officers of the Guards, whether stationed on the hanks of the Sutltj or the Mr. MOWAT r asked if the right hon g entleman would give the committee some explanation with reference Thames, did their duty. (Hear, hem.) As to Katiirliutd, to the troops for the colonies. The government one of the most gallant officers there (Colonel M.Kinnon) took advantage of the disposition of honourable gentle was an officer of the Guards. men on the other side of the house not to permit Captain BERKELEY, as an officer of the line, should an,' discussion. It was only a little while ago that the sa y that, when in the army, he never heard the least noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had made an appeal ad jealousy amongst the line officers in reference to the promo mieericeedians to that large portion of the house who teas of the officers of the Guards. (Hear, hear.) supported the same commercial policy as himself, to lay After a few by all minor difference*: and he was therefore surprised inaudible in the g words from Col. Cuettgueue, which were al l ure, that the noble lord should have treated them in the man- Mr. HENLEY uuderstood to sugge't an annual return of the affairs of military savings banks. nee he did. After such conduct , he cared not how soon the noble lord might find himself again in the position Mr. lIUME said that the expenses of recruiting amounted in which he was a short time ago. In fact, it was partly to 100,12 N., when, by throwing the duty on the veteran owing to the noble lord's want of the common courtesy, retired officers, the cost would not be half that. (Divide.) which might have been expected from one holding the same- Mr. F. MAULE said he had had his attention already lion of a prime minists r, the he hail found himself in that called to that subject. (Divide.) embarrassment ; and he might depend upon it that if Sir D. L. EVANS begged to say one word. Reference similar circumstance. should arise, and nothing of more had been made by the Secretary at War to the sanitary importance showld be involved but the queetion of a condition of the troops at present, particularly those in the ministry, he (Mr. Mowatt) for one would walk out of the West Indies. lie feared, however, that nothing had bum house. (Oh, oh.) Ile wished now to ask the right hon. done in the crew of Burbadosai, where, owing to the locality gentleman it he was prepared to withdraw as many soldiers of the barracks, sickness invariably prevails. from the colonic', reserving those who were left as police. The committee then divided. Lord J. RCSSELL rose to reply, and was greeted Fur Mr. Hume's amendment 3l with loud cheers ' which rendered his fi rst observation Against it inaudible. Ile said that his right hon. friend the The amendment was accordi we found ngly lost. Secretary at War hail gone at considerable length jut s to the g various questions connected with the army; a nd he had On returning allery endeavoured to show what reductions he thought proper to Mr. WILLIAMS addressing the house. It was his in make, as well as why it was thought necessary that so large tention to move as an amendment that the cost of the a force should be retained. Ile (Lord J. Russell) did nut Guards over and above the cost of an equal number of men understand what the hon. gentleman meant by his charge in the line be disallowed, in support of whirls he would lay whist himself. (Lima cheers.) some item before the house. After entering into various Mr. MOWATT observed that a large portion of the statistical details, he concluded by saying that he was gentlemen who cheered the noble lord were not present on aware that none but aristocrats of the first water or the occasion referred to, and therefore he could not bow to their immediate connexions had much chance of getting their decision on the point. The noble lord would recol- commissions in the regiments of Guards, but he did not see tact that between twelve and one o'cloek, there having been what right they had to greater privileges than the other only three gentlemen who had made any observations upon portions of the army. Ile thoug h t the tune was come when the estimates, it was evident that the house—he would nut' justice must be done to those gallant soldiers who had pretend to investigate the cause—refused to hear any fur- fought their moon's battles, abroad—who went through ther olgervation or argument whatever upon the subject. the Peninsular campaign and bled at Waterloo. The cows- Upon that the hun. gentleman (Mr. Hume) said that in addi- try would no longer be content to sec men who had been lion tothe unusual comae of granting after 12 o'clock solargc a thirty aad forty years in the service of their country unable I vote as three millions, the house was wholly indisposed to to obtain that promotion which mere stripling, obtained allow any discussion to take place upon the army ; and the after eleven or twelve years service in theiGuarde The hon. noble lord appearea to think that that was extremely un - gen tleman concluded b y moving that the vote be reduced reasenable. Ile (Mr. Mowatt), for one, had not opposed by 82,1131. the first division—with reference to the number of men, Mr. FOX MAULE regretted that after the discussions feeling that the period was drawing so near when the army which had taken place as to the relative merits of could not he kept together my longer unless the money the Guards and regiments of the line, the honour and the Mutiny Act were voted. Ile there fore felt more able gentleman had thought it right to renew the strongly the eta:Armes of preventing the further discussion attack on the regiments of Guards. He hoped, however, of the subject. Ile did not mean to say the noble lord had the house at all events would nut go into that vexed mica himeelt joined in the interruption—looking at the position time Both parties had pleaded their cause. Ile should he held, it could not he expected that he would—but the oppose the motion of the hon. gentlemen. noble lord appeared to receive the interruption with great Colonel DONNE said that he could not agree to sweep pleasure, and he had charged them (Mr. Muwatt's friends) away a number of the items with which the hon. member with being unreasonable. He therefore slid think that he for Lambeth found fault. What he objected to with re was not abusing language when he said the noble lord I spect to the regiments of Guards was the rate of promotion, availed him...Hof the obstruction to prevent their expressing ' and not the pay which they received. (Hear.) their opinions. (Hear, hear.) , Mr. HOME said that he never objected to the pay of Sir D. L. EVANS asked a question with reference to the I either officers or men in the army. He thought that the allowance to married soldiers. He was aniuous to know pay was not enough either in the army or navy. (Hear, whether the grant would be made to the six married men . hear.) What he complained of was this, that a cumber of in every regiment? men more than was necessary for the service was maintained. Mr. F. MAULE was UltderttOnd to reply that it was in. I The committee divided— , tended to diminish, ae far as possible, the objectionable For the vote B4 practice of married men occupyina the same room with un- Fur the amendment married. Now, if he recollected what he slated in evidence, I The vote was then agreed to. it was this—teamely, that he was aware the allowance was On the vote of 159.932/. for the expenses of the general insufficient for the purpose of providing them separate ac- stair officers, lommodation. Ile proposed, therefore, to double the Mr. HUME complained that the general staff officers amount of the sum; and he intended to ask the house to were kept up to an amount beyond what was necessary. double the grant for that purpose. At the same time he lie found that there were general staff officers where then thought that if, by increasing the allowance, three of the were only a few hundred men. soldiers might be withdrawn from the room, accommodation Mr. FOX MAX LE said that reductions in the general I might be found for the other three without making them staff heel been effected in Canada, the Cape, Australia, the the allowance. (Hear, hear.) Leeward Islands, and St. Helena. It was necessary that I Mr. MOWAT' asked how many regiments there were in there should be general officers even where the cumber of the colonies, and when it was intended to reduce them? troops was small, to carry out the military law. i Mr. FOX MAULE replied that the process of reduction : Mr. W. WILLIAMS com p lained in reference to the Ikea been going on for some years, and that it had now pay of the commander - in•chief , which was 8,018/., that it reached almost its utmost extent. (Hear.) was given in consequence of the rank and station which he Mr. lICME complained that opportunities for bringing held in the army. He thought the commander-in-chief lon subjects were very rare. lie had been trying for three should be paid a distinct salary for his services, without years to bring on a single question,—namely, the reduction any regard to his rank or station in the army. He did not of the number of admirals from 150 to 100, but without make thew observations in reference to the distin guished success. Their only chance was in going into supple, and individual who now held the o ffi ce of commander in-chief, therefore he wanted hon. members to interest themselves in but whenever the office became vacant he thought that a these very expensive establishments. He wished to know , change should be made. whether the time had not come when they ought to consider After a few words from Mr. Here, the vote was how they could maintain these 98,000 men at the least par : agreed to. Bible cost, consistently with the efficieecy of the force? ; On the vote of 92,71 - 3., for allowances and contingent Mr. Hume concludea some further observations, illus. : expenses. traced by statistics, by protesting against the system I Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he did not see why the coun of the 'Guards, or any pet corps, and say ing try should be burdened with the expense of a deputy I that gentlemen might talk as they pleased, but judge-advocate-general when the duties were so light. it was impossible that the country could be relieved Mr. FOX MAULE said that the duties were not so light ' from taxation so lung as they spent between four and five as the hon. gentleman supposed, seeing that questions re.. biting to courts martial came before the Judge Advocate ence to this head of the storekeeper's department. Th. General, and that he had to see that proper justice was diminution would otherwise have been 15,000/. In the done to those tried by those courts. ordnance establishments for the colonies there was a de. After a few words from Colonel Clt ATTERTON, crease of 5,2001. In the barrack establishments at hones Mr. 111: ME complained that the recomniendatione of the there was a decrease of 4,0001. In the barrack eaabliehil committee, which sat come eight or nine years ago, in ments abroad there was a decrease of 5,0001. The favour of the appointment of a Minister at War, were not . next vote was for the wages of artificers awl labourers. carried out. 1 hese datious stood on the books, 11n this vote for this year there was a decreaee on year but that was all. Ilerecommen did not think there was any use in .of 3,9991. in the United Kingdom, and of 2,2611. 1a5t in the committees sitting, if what they recommended was not 1 colonies. The next vote was for s t ores. This 1.1: V. the vote a ttended to. He believed if they had a Minister of War I which had always called forth the greatest amount of did. that a great deal of the confusion in their military system cism from the advocates of economy. This year lie su b. would be got rid of. I mined it to them with the most perfect wisurance that the The Tote Was then agreed to. h ous e would observe and admit the p ractical econom y whic h n tho vote of 16,9011., for the Royal Military College, had g O overned the department in this direcn. In 1850-1 the sum of 211,6311. war asked • t w in Col. REID said that he had listened with great pain and ' mortification to the scheme propounded to the house by the I the present year he had to ask only 194,9119/.: right hon. gentleman for an examination of the officers of , being a diminution of 16,722/. The estimate for s ma ll the army previous to their promotion. That scheme was arms, included in this vote, was 14,000/. less this year than last year. It should be understood, however, that the sup. imast humiliating to the officers of the army. lie trusted ; that the right hon. Fentlonan would feel, on more mature ply demanded would not be considered as that by auy means which it was advisable to maintain. There were at consideration how impracticable and unjust it would Ise to present peculiar reasons why the vote should be limited in require of officers who had served in the army an examine- I amount. It appeared that some interesting novelties in lion in abstract science. The scheme adopted for carrying small arms were being tried on the continent, and it wall out the regulation was more humiliating than the regulation deemed desirable that the results of these raped itself. The examiners were in the habit of asking most absurd . ot h er ments should be ascertained. The next vote wee questions. A friend of his told him, for example, the day, that a son of his was askedwhat was the ditference 1 for „ works , bu ildin g s, and repairs." The amount demanded this year was 4 7 0 , 317 /. The amoun t between a monk and a friar. (Laughter.) That was a sub j ect voted last year was 440,069/. This increase was apparently respecting which o ffi cers knew very little, and he thought the 1 less they knew the better. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The large ; but it would be found to he no i ncrease at all when lit was considered that in the vote this year was incl u d e d a gen tl e man said he was tempted to gi ve what ought have I b een cons id e red a rather impudent answer, namely, that i sum of 61,000! . required for entirely new buildings. In there were six of one mad half a dozen of the other, I fact, there was a decrease in the vote as compared with last (Laughter.) ' year of 12,0001. Part of this 61 , 000! . was to be applied to I the erection of an additional wing to the barreck in Port. Mr. F. MAULE said, though many objections had been made against the now system of ed ucation which had been mau-strect. Another portion of it, namely,olwich: and he was sure that the 5,000/., would be house would not grudge these expense ., sanctioned and re. introduced into the army , his h on. and gallant friend was applied to additions at Wo the first who had stood up and boldl y maintained the old state of ignorance amongst the officers. Would hie hon. I commended air they were by the committee of last year. aud gallant o r e be contented to see the men in the army IHe (Col. Aneon) came next to the Note fur the sure pomessing more information on professional points than ! ye of England, Scotland. and Ireland. Ile was per. their superiors ? (hear, hear.) It haul been tne object of : hefty well aware that hon. gentlemen objected to the the Commander-in-Chief that the instruction of the officers I manner in which this amount had been distributed. It wee should keep pace with the increasing intelligence of the ' not for him to enter at any great length into the matter. i The amount which parliament was 611 Liberal as to vote wee men. Ile (Mr. F. Maule) was sorry to hear that the exa mination had assumed so much of the character of form, 1 63,000/. ; hut that sum went but a very smell way In and he begged to Legere his hon. and gallant friend that he I finishing the surveys of the three countries. Lt would would make it his business to look into the matter, and see I require a much larger amount ; and if the house ' that no books were mad in future which hail question!) and , could persuade the Chancellor of the Eachequeg answe rs w hich were designed to be learnt by rote. (Hear, Ito give a larger sum it would he of great service. There I were a grit many items to which lie hail not even referred, I hear.) Subjecte shouldbe given, and the questions should ; and for this he might perhaps be blamed by his hue. friend emanate from the examinersthemselvcs. The second exami ' nation, which took place before an officer, who was elevated (Mr. Hume). lie was, however, unwilling to detain the from the rank of cornet or ensign to that of lieutenant, Was house, (Hear, hear.) purely professional, all that was required being an Sc- The CHAIRMAN then put the question, that a number quaint:ince with the Queen's regulations and with a certain aot exceeding 14,573 men be voted fur the ordnance mill. amount of drill. tart' diem , : Col. REID said the righthou. gentleman had implied that . Ir. 111 eIE objected, not to the details of management, be hail been guilty of the arrogance and presumption of ar- but to the system in general, which had resulted Ina rapid expansion of cosh., and in a waeteful accumulation of unite. raying his opini..n against that of the highestauthority in the world. If he thought the change had originated in the on eturee. In the years 1831-8 the average ordnance expenditure was below one million, which swelled regularly Kama and unerring judgment of that great man, he would afterwards, until, in 1817, it had risen to more than three remain perfectly satisfied ; but he must throw the whole the right hon. gentleman. millions ; and even now, after the stringent entbreeineut of responsibility ou economy, remained at 2,400,00 0 /. Ae the only satisewtory Mr. HUME coneiderea the change one for which the go change in this system the hon. member recommended the v e rnment were entitled to the gratitude of the country. The British army had been noted for the i g norance of it, consolidation of the ordnance department with the War ' officers. (Ironical cheers from Col. Reid.) If a battaliou office, and the placing of the whole under the responsible in the British service were examined aloug with one in the authority of the commander - in - chief. French service, it would have no chance. Every officer In Mr. WILLIAMS added some remarks upon the ea. the French army went thr o ug h an examination much traordinary cost of certain corps belonging to the severer than that to which British officers were subjected. artillery service, but proposed no amendment, and Sir DE LACY EV.4.NS said the bon. and gallant gentle- The vote was then agreed to. man opposite had sought to fie odium on the rigid hon. The next vote was for 712,582/. for the ordnance, which gentleman the Secretary at War for a regulation which did was agreed to unanimously ; and this WAS ft/HI/Wed by a him the highest honour. vote of 268,257/. for the commissariat and barrack supply. , Vol. DUN NE was thankful to the government for in- Mr. HUME asked whether any alteration was to be , troducing the new system. made in consequence of the evidence taken before the come The vote woo then agreed to. mittee ? 18,0161. was proposed to defray the charge of the Royal The CHANCELLOR of the E XCHEQUER replied that Military Asylum and the Hibernian School. the government had it under confederation whether Mr. lIUNIE thought the system pureued extravagant, some consolidations could not be effected in order to sure 1 Here were 114 persons maintained to teach 350 boys. esPense. Again, in the Ilibeniian School there were 41 teachers to 350 be:ys. If the boys were brought up in the country they Mr. WILLIAMS drew attention to the fact that there were ninety-one barrack masters at home, and forty-eight could be educated and mane •el for much less money. in the colonies. all receiving excellent salaries, and some of Mr. MAULE defended the military schools in which so them es much as 7001. a year. He thought they ought also many soldiere orphans were clothed, fed, and educated. to be store keepers. Several of the buys were in training for schoulineeters. Col. ANSON said that the number of barrack nnuitem Mr. lIUME repeated his opinion that the amounts had been lately reduced from 104 to 91. voted would be sufficient to bring up three times the num- Mr. 11111111: referred to an item of 91,0001. for artificers, her of boys in the country. and 25,000/. for clerks of the works. lie thought that that Vote agreed to. was an enormous proportion. 65,0001. fur defraying the charge of the volunteer corps. The vote was agreed to unanimously. Mr. MILES having deprecated the parsimony of the The next was 7.5,950/. for the ordnance office. vote, proceeded to allude to an attack which had been made on the Somereetehire yeomanry by the hou. member Mr. HUME inquired whether the new wing was in tended to contain the whole of the establishment. for Bristol in a fernier scesion. Col. ANSON was surprieed that Mr. Hume deed.' alt After some further dim:we:ion, the question, for he had himself voted for the outlay noes. Mir. hi. BERKELEY said he would opp o se the vote and sal7 to complete it. M divide on the question. (Oh.) Mr. lIUME wanted to know the expense. If th e y I was cleared for a division, but none t ook The gallery abolished the Tower, the next thing would be to abolish place, and the vote was then agreed to. Pall-mall. Mr. F. IeIAULE said he did not propose that evening to The vote was agreed to unanimously. bring f orwa rd any more of the army estimate. o as it was The next votes were 295,7501. for establishments., and. now necessary to proceed with some of the vette on the 122,8001. for wages at home mid abroad. ordnance estimates. (Hear.) Agreed to unanimoway. I ORDNANCE EwrINUTES. The next vote was 194,109/. fee ordnance stores for land , Col. ANSON said the amount demanded fur this Se- and sea service. I partment wee only a slight diminution upon that voted 17 Mr. HUME asked if the Prussian musket had been Iparliamcut in the last year. The reduction was 22,520 . adopted ? He trusted the house would nut therefore imagine that C o lonel ANSON replied that it was under consideration. every requisite attention had not been given to the coma- The vote was agreed to unanimously. I deratiun of all the items comprieel in the estimates. The The rivet was 470,347/. for works, buildings, and repairs. tin t to . changes made during the last two years had lea to great Agre next vote was 9G,601/. for the edentate branch , on reductions, so much so that the amount of decrease once The whirl'', 1819 had been 580,616/. The department performed vast services, and the expenses of it must Lc regulated with the Mr. MILES took an ommrtunitv of making an cxplana view of keeping it in a state of vigour. lie believed the tears respecting a detonating powd.;r. economical unproveutents which had been mule fn.m day Agreed to. to day would still preserve it in a condition of efficiency ; Guriug the discussion of the last vote the cry of " IMO. still he thought a varying estimate upon fixed jetyment thertuit" was raised, it being then 12 o'clock. Mr. REYNOLDS objected to voting the public money was not ut all do th e (Ilear, hear.) Ile Was After a few words from Mr. SMOLLETT and Colonel w wl o l u ere id t n c o r w pr p t c, ictb d lt; happy to state that the eugge.tions of the committee, Aesom, at that hour, and he moved that the chairman report pro. is. hail b v e ot e e n s a a.tk P i t a t i 'd ir . of (l o l b e j a e r e ' m h . i r e s ar to .) be l a ie r in mind that they should exclude the first vote from general fires& (" Oh, oh," and "Divide.") censure, inasmuch as it was entirely a separate vote from Colonel ANSON hoped the hon. gentleman would allow those that followed it. Every day he remained iu his pre. the vote It Pass. sent position justalea the opinion he had formed of the After a short discussion, interrupted by repeated calls superior qualifications of the Artillery, the Engineers, and fora division, the question of reporting progress was put. Sappers and Miners. Now, the amount demanded on this Mr. REYNOLDS wished to assign, as the rer a n for vote we 712,7551., being 17 ' 31. less than was required last moving that the chairman progress, that he did not like year. There was an increase on some of the items and a stuns of the public money to lie voted after that hour. reduction on others. In the hospital expenses there was a (Cries of " Oh, oh," laughter, and " Divide.") The name diminution of 1,1G9/. The medical department had been of money made hon. gentlemen cry out " Oh," but he as. revised, and the: whole of the charge on the hospitals now signed that lIS a reason for his motion ; and he essigned also appeared in the estimates, with the pay of the soldiers in as a reaSoll that there were other important metieuree to be the hospitals deducted. It was gratifying to know that the brought forward. 'Chore were two unportant bills relating ordnance department was not behindhand in its endeavours to Ireland on the paper, the Valuation Bill and the Medical to educate its soldiers. The schools for the artillery had Charities Bal. (" Divide, divide," " Withdraw.") been established many years, and they had been supported, Lord J. RUSSELL wished to know whether the hon. up to 1810, by regimental subecription. The system per. gentleman wished these bale to go on. sued in the artillery was to train uon-commiesiontel officers Mr. ItEYNOLDS had uneleritood that the noble lord pro. at Woolwich ; and the coarse of study einbraced English poeed to move the committee: on the Valuation Bill. grammar, algebra, practical geometry, astronomy, the use Sir W. SOMERVILLE mid that his intention was to pro of '• • and distances, and " that the house be kind enough to allow the bill to go into committee that night pro forma only. Upon hearing this Mr. Itr.vNotns withdrew his amend• ment, and the vote was agreed to. The next vote proposed was for the sum 0[50,0001. oat am runt towards defraying the charges fur civil contingencies. Mr. HUME said that the government were encroaching year after year with these votes on account, to which ho strongly objected. After a few words from Mr. C. Lewis, Mr. W. Williams, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer; which were not heard in the noise which prevailed, Colonel SIBTIIORP said that these were most important measures to be brought before the house at that hour, and that there never had been such a waste of the public money as in these civil contingencies votes. Ile agreed with the hon. member for Montrose, and he never would vote again for money granted on credit. (Hear.) Mr. HUME remarked that there was not a farthing in the cute proposed for the Crystal Palace. Col. SIBTIIORP said if the hon. member and his friends were not going to divide, he (Col. Sibthorp) did not intend to hold himself at the beck and call of their false economy. The vote was then agreed to. The House resumed, and the chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again. BORNEO AND RAJAH BROOKE, Viscount PALMERS'ION hoped his hon. friend would postpone the motion of which he had given notice for a short time, until Sir James Brooke could arrive and furnish further information. That course would, lie thought, be more fair and just. Mr. HUME said, that after what the noble lord had said, he would have no hesitation in giving way.. because it was a matter, not of personality, but od principle with hint (Mr. II.), and it was only tbr Inc Ma jesty's government to show to him that there was a bettor course than that he proposed to take. Therefore, although be had taken a great deal of trouble and hail the motion standing a long time, and was at last in a position that gave hint the right to bring it on, he would yield now, but should take an opportunity of bringing it forward after the arrival of Sir J. Brooke. TILE MARINE MUTINY B ILL ILL AND THE MUTINY B Were then severally read a second time. STEAM NAVIGATION BILL. Mr. LABOUCHERE, in moving the second reading of the above bill, said that the provisions had been generally approved, and the objections were confined to matters of detail which might he considered in committee. lie had already stated the objects of the bill, and need not repeat them; and as the bill had been in the hands of hon. mem bers for some time, he hoped the house would allow it to be read a second time now, and he should not propose the consideration of it in committee until utter Easter. (Hear) In answer to Mr. Ht: YE, Mr LABOUCHERE said if he found there was a ge neral wish on the part of those taking an intcre- iii she bill that it should be considered in a committee of the w hole house, he would give due time for its consideration. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on the 2nd of May. APPRENTICES AND SERVANTS BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. PROPERTY AND INCOME TAX. Mr. BOOKER moved for a tabular and classed return of the amounts levied under the several income-tax s chedules, declaring that II; request was prompted only by a principle ' of justice, and was irrespective of the political faith pro teased by the occupants of the treasury bench. Ile wished to ascertain the proportions contributed by real propertY and e di s, ffe ,t r: d rit to de di . under the influence of our recent policy. wscriopvtWer"hoowf commercial com and es hianddli'tertittatt al the measurement o[fheighti scripture and English history. The most satisfactory re ports had been retched of the progress they had made in their studies. At Woolwich there was a very inadequate supply of school accommodation ; and this ye ir there would be a vote taken to extend that accommodation, an extension which would be attended with the hest advantages. (blear.) The average daily attendance at these schools was as fol lows..-235 non-commissioned officers, 258 gunners, 118 trumpeters, and 233 boys. In libraries, also, this depart ment must be considered as being in a satisfactory condi tion. In 1834, libraries were established for non-com missioned officers; in 18.35 they were formed for gunners; and in 1819 the demand for the instruction which they were intended to supply had so greatly in creased, that the libraries appropriated to the offi cers were given up to the non-commissioned officers and gunners, and new libraries having then to be provided fur the officers themselves. The next point to which he had to call attention was with regard to savings banks. He was happy to say that since the establishment of these institu tions in the artillery the number of depositors had largely increased. In 1845-6 the number of depositors was 341, and the amount deposited was 3,018/. In 181940 the num ber of depositors was 1,109, and the amount deposited was 11,3001. Other means had been taken for improving the condition of the department. Great benefits had resulted from the adoption of a suggestion made in that house, and urged in one of the military newspapers, in respect to the appointment of additional captains of artillery for the in instruction of officers on joining their corps. He trusted that the house would appreciate the anxiety which, as he had shown, constantly actuated the superior authorities hi this department, and that hon. gentlemen would admit that every practicable improvement was being gradually adopted. Some change: had taken place in regard to the allowanees to married soldiers. The allowance had been for a long time one penny per day, this being in conformity with a communication from the War-office ; but recently an application had been made to the treasury to sanction an alteration, and it was proposed that in future the allowance should be twopence per day to married non-commissioned officers living out of barracks. Considerable additions had been made to the buildings for married soldiers. To this first vote of 712,755/. he particularly called the atten tion of the hon. gentleman the member for Montrose, and he hoped that he (Mr. Ilume) would separate this vote from all the others, and that ho would consider it upon its (Edina grounds. The nest vote was for " commis- H ssriat and barrack supplies for her Majesty's forces, great coats for the army, and clothing fur colonial corps." This vote was less by 5,5801. than the vote passed last year. In the article of forage there was an increase of 10,7001., in consequence of the ' increased price of rations. In the article of coals there w• diminution of 8,0001. In the article of candles there was a diminution of 1,700/. ; and in the article of palliasses there was also a diminution. Altogether there was a diminution of 10,288/., and an increase of 10,4031., as com pared with the estimates of last year. The barrack sup plies for last year amounted to 71,0001., this year they were i only 66,0001., being a considerable diminution. The third vote was for the Ordnance-office. The alterations proposed by the committee with regard to the amalgamation of certain offices had been carried out, and the result was that in the I vote for the present year there was a diminution, as corn ed with last year, of 11,0001. He could not take credit or the whole of this diminution • because, as it would be I noticed, the expenses of the storekeeper's department were I not this year included in this vote, that deportment being transferred to the head "establishments." The actual diminution amounted to 3,6841. (Hear, hear.) The nest vote was for the " establishments" in the United Kingdom and the colonies. As respected this vote he had to ask for 8,7061. less than he had required last year. The vote was increased by 17,0001., in consequence of the transfer-