The Express. — London, England, 1848-04-12 00:00:00

the revolution had been effected by a very small portio n of the people of Paris — if they chose to submit to be so governed, they had an undoubt ed right to do 8, so. If w they eek chose to let M. Louis Blanc take poesemion of 0001. a of railway stock, and the Provisional Government te seize the bank and issue a paper currency to the eitent of four hun dred millions sterling, they bad • right to do so ; but he hoped the meeting of the national assembly would open their eyes. It was, however, to be feared, when • government became too weak to perform its functions, that a despotism would succeed—(hear, bear); and it was well known that if • general at the head of 10,000 men was to march into Paris, there would be an end of the rublic at once. (Hear, hear.) No men knew so little of t her pros. peas as the Provisional Government. But the experiment of • republic must be tried for a time in France. When Louis XVIII. was restored it was the custom to call himt coat the"the second restoration, and it was considered ineritable--(hear, Iwo): so he believed a republic at present was l inevitable. He regarded F.Agland, however, as saf e from an y peri security of ce.r institutions was deeply laid in the affections of the people , wh ich could only be gained by con stant good o ffi ces, and only b e ke p t b y unvarying good faith. Noe arena neque thesauri regni pretstdia twit versos amiei. (Cheers ) lie would not detain their lordships further; but, perhaps, he might say that, notwithstanding the reports which had been circulated as to foreigners being driven out of P b he was confident they were se sate there as in any part of England. The noble and learned lard eoncluded by moving for the correspondence which he referred to in the commencement of his Address. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE thought it necessary to speak cautiously on the subjects to which the noble and learned lord had referred. No doubt many of the reports which bad teen made, and which the noble and learned lord hadradicted, were untrue, and amongst others that which stated that the noble and learned lord was about to be natural ised and become a member of the Provisional Government himself. (Laughter.) The measures taken by the King of Sar dinia had not been regarded with indifference by her M a jesty's government ; but he was not prepared commit the government in reference to a state with which we were on the most friendly terms. Her Majesty's government had advised the King of Sardinia, unsuccessfully, not to interfere, as well as communicated with Austria on the subject, and they regretted that the King of Sardinia had not taken their advice. Alter a few other observations, which were inaudible in the gallery, it was understood that the noble marquis granted the correspondence for which the noble and learned lord had moved. Their lordships adjourned at 5 minutes past 7. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY, APRIL 11. The &sneeze took the chair at 12 o'clock. PUBLIC BUSINSSS , PETITIONS. —By Mr. F. O'Cosson, from ameeting held last even ing, in London, against the Crown and Government Security BiIL— By the Sheriffs of the city of London, against the exemption at pre sent enjoyed Is, members of parliam nt from srresit for debt.—Mr. J. (Morisco, from numerous parishes in almost every county in Ireland, in favour or a repeal of the union.—Mr.Cowss, from the free church of Scotland, against the bill for establishing diplomatic relas time with Rome. FIRST It PADING.—AIienS Removal COMMITIEFS.—Crown and Government Security; Public Works Completion !Ireland! ; Bilis. NOTICS.S OF MOTION. —Cantos AND GOVEXXIMT Sart . arm Box —By Mr. P. Woos, in ease the words and advised speaks mg" be retained, to move as an addition if such speaking shall occur within two years from the wen* of this act." 80 sit. Datirs.—By Mr. it. Cocas..., to introduce a bill to amend the law for recovery theme POST•OFFICE—OPENING OF LETTERS. lily. S. O'BRIEN said that he had received a letter through the Postoffice that morning, which had been opened. He wished to know whether the government had given orders to open his letters. Sir G. GREY said he must give his unqualified contra diction to the assertion that the Post-office authorities had opened any letters. No orders of the kind had been given. He would recommend the hon. gentleman to send the letter to which he referred, to the Post•office authorities. CROWN AND GOVERNMENT SECURITY BILL. On the motion that this bill be committed, Mr. F. O'CONNOR rose to oppose the motion, and de signated the bill as an unconstitutional, base, bloody, and brutal one. It this bill was passed, the Attorney-General ought to be the prime minister of the country. Any wily lawyer might so construe the bill as to Keep the worst of governments in office. All the legal argument in that house was against the hill. As long as they admitted free discus sion he would never counsel resistanee to the law. But if this bill was passed he would proclaim himself a republicao, because there would be more security under such a form of government, than under a government which could pass such a Lill as this. The meeting of yesterday had been alluded to in another place, and a noble lord said that one policeman had dispersed the meeting. He thought it was old policy in those who said the object of such meetings was to violate the peace, to taunt them afterwards with not doing so. (Hear, hear.) If this measure was paned secret societies would be formed, and these might become really dangerous to the government. lie protested against the policy which would 'dace England and Ireland on an equality with respect to high tie aeon, but left the greatest inequality with respect to political rights. He should op pose the bill in every stage, and he hoped that he would be supported by the Irish members and independent English members. Mr. HORSMAN said that there were some members who were opposed to this measure altogether. There were others who would support the bill if certain words were left out, or if the bill were only temporary. He would move, out, o r clause came to be considered, that the words alluded to be struck out. He thought that strong language on both aides should be avoided. If he wan defeated in his motion, he would not offer any further opposition to the bill, notwith standing the declaration of the hon. gentleman that he would proclaim himself a republican. (Hear, hear.) Mr. 1111:ME said that the present bill was the worst attack made on public liberty since he had a seat in that house. (Hear, hear.) lie wanted to know whether the words of the clause objected to would affect members of that house speaking in their places, and whether, for words spoten in that house, they would be liable to be transported to Botany Bay ? This bill was a violation of all constitutional right—a right to which he attributed a great portion of the liberty of England. He also wished to know Irons the right hon. gen tleman (Sir G. Grey) whether what had been stated by a cabinet minister in another place was true, that the meeting of yesterday had been dispersed be a policeman, or whether they dispersed of themselves The house might not be aware of the effects which yesterday's meeting would produce on the continent. (Hear, hear.) What would foreign go vernments think of the Duke of Wellington having to be called out, and Somerset-house and other places occupied with horse, foot, and artillery, in order to suppress the meeting of yesterday ? He believed that all they did was to create as unnecessary alarm; and that they did much mis chief by their unnecessary preparations. He believed that a continuance in such a system would be productive of serious consequences to the liberties of England. (Hear, hear.) SIBTIIORP tendered his best thanks to the govern ment and to the right hon. gentleman the Secretary of State for the Horn' D. pertinent, for the firmness he exhibited yesterday, and the determination he showed in proposing this Slid. lie hoped the government would not alter a word of the measure, and he only regretted that it was not ten time' stronger. With respect to the question of the hon. menib.r for Montrose, be had no hesitation in saying that if that gentli:lcan vitiated the act in that house he would move that the hon. gentleman be committed to the Tower. (Laughter's ) Mr. AGLIONBY expressed his concurrence in what had fallen from his hon. colleague. Ile deprecated the exprm siou of extreme opinions on either side. (Hear, hear.) He supported the hill because he believed it was due to the safety of her Majesty's subjects. He believed that those who bad so large a mejority ahuuld satisfies:with that, without cahilittiag strong feelings of satisfaction. Their triumph miehtlbe firm, but it ought to he temperate. (Hear, hear.) MrfriRATTAN said it was no reason for inflicting this measure on England that Ireland was in a state of distrac tion. He gave credit to the government for the best inten tions. but he predicted that this bill would be ineffective. What was the meaning of the words " open and advised words ?" Such words might he easily mis-quoted and mis represented. Such a law would not be worth anything, he. cause it was contrary to first principles and to the opinions of the sblest jurists, as II de. Foster, and Blackstone. lie asked whether this law would put down the manufac ture of pikes for illicit purposes, or suppress illegal political societies? He expressed his coutidence that the natural sense of the Irish people, their natural g iod feeling, would keep them, as a nation, frou any insurrectionary outbreak. Mr. REYNOLDS opposed the bill, though with little hope, after the division of last night, that any am, lioration would be made in the provisions of the measure. lie con tended that so venal were juries in his country, that no man would be safe from government persecution if this bill were passed, the more especially that convictions wider it would shut out thet posibiliiy of that appeal to the House of Lords whichremedied the imustiee done by a packed jury to Mr. O'Connell and I. i 6 associates. He appealed to the gallantry of the house ti exempt, at all es ents, the ladii s from the operation of the measure. Al the bill stood any of the female tea and tract parties 89 prevalent in Ireland might be indicted for treason or sedition, if the company happened to turn the convers ation upon political matters. I A laugh.) lie denied that Irel .nd was disturbed. There were but two newspapers in Dublin which incul cated violence, and in his confident belief nearly nine hundredths of the population of Ireland repudiated the wild and extravagant doctrines oth se e two journals. Cork was quiet, Limerick was quiet, f Clonmel, Waterford, Belf.st, all the towns of Ireland with large populations were quiet and obedient to:the law. There was, indeed, dissatis faction, for there was almost universal misery. In the last eighteen monttus one mblion of human beings had sunk into the grave in Ireland from sheer famine, and hundreds were still dying in the same way every week that passed over our heads. There was but the other day a case in Galway in which a man was charged with sheep-stealing, and it was, indeed, proved that he bad stolen the animal but under what circumstances ? Why, these that his family and himself were absolutely starving: that two days before one of his children had died of famine, and that, in the despera• tion of hanger, the mother had absolutely gnawed the flesh from her dead child's arm. All this the poor man bad wit nessed before he committed the act with which he was charged. The hon. member ricemmended the postponement of any further proceeding with this bill until after Easter. The present were angry times, and the popular discontent should not be exasperated. That discontent was now peace ful enough, if one might judge from the hon. member for Nottingham's exhibition of veeterday, which had passed over as quietly as a Quakers meeting, all the grand pre. parations of military and polite having proved quite unne cessary. (Oh, oh.) He feared he had hurt the feelings of some of the special constables of the occasion—(laughter/, but he could not help thinking that their enthusiasm had beeu needlessly wiought lle repeetcd hope that tee bill might be poetponed until after Baster. Mr. SADLEIB. supported the bill, as a nemeture which, while it would tend to suppress the open and scandalous in culcation, by word or deed, of seditionr treason, w would not prevent the statement on the part people oflreland the grievances which were felt througall hout the ses, width and breadth of the country on the part of clas grievances which filled the whole population with *belief that the go serum. nt had wholly lost sight of the promises which as se opposition they had held out to Ireland, and were indif ferent, if not callous, to the physical miseries of the s people of that country. lie approved of the bill as calculated to save from transportation h undreds of unhappy men who, if the career of their seducers was not checked, were likely to become the victims of a political delusion • but, he re peated, it would not suppress the declaration of popular dis content. The only mode of removing discontent was to re move the causes of discontent. Lord J. RUSSELL utterly denied that th go egovernment h a d manifested any indifference to the physical sufferings of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) He had, indeed, said that it was not the business of the government to interfere between I the various relations of social and industrial life, but he had never put forward any proposition that government slid not consider themselves celled upon to come forward when mea sures were required to meet some marked; physical destitution in Ireland. (Hear, hea lie could not have said any such t hin g ; su ch a proposition would bare been wholly opposed to the whole conduct of her Majesty's government. (Hear, hear.) Last year that government had obtained the means from parlia ment of providing daily relief for three millions of persons in Ireland—(hear, hear), a step certainly evincing no Ii to the physical condiuon of that country. In the present year, again, although the poor law heel been placed in operation, the governmeat had felt that at so early a stage of its proceedings the attention of the general govern ment might still be needful, and he had therefore trans mitted instructions from the Treasury to Ireland, that in the event of peculiar suffering manifesting itself in any of the unions, whether from actual inadequacy of funds, or from the non-payment of their rates by persons fund , pay pay, but exempted from payment by the negligence or connivance of the collectors, a report should be made of the fact, in order that means of relief migh t be considered. He repelled, therefore, the suggestion that the government was indif ferent to the physical condition of Ireland as wholly libellous I and calumnious. (Hear, hear.) Sir D. L. EVANS said that having on a former evening claimed on the part of his constituents the protection el the' government against the violent and tumultuous proceedings which were anticipated from the meeting of yesterday, be felt it his duty to take the first opportunity that presented itself of thanking ministers for the admirable arrange melts which they had made against any violation of th. public paste. (Hear.) There never hod been an occasion when greater provocation had been offered to the hor austitiewhos than had been given by the men aces of those perons en couraged and promoted the proceedings of Monday, and if the whole city was not now deplonng the effects of those proceedings it was because the govern m e nt had done its duty. (Hear.) At the same time he must say that nothing could have dune the inhabitants of London and Westminster pes ter honour than the condu ct of the people generally I during Monday. The meeting was n w o characwas to terised be as con t e mptible. If it was so, the government thanked for that fact. Again he begged, on the part of hie constituents, to reiterate his thanks to the ministers. Mr. MASTERMAN expressed some surprise at the ob i serrations made by the hon. member for Montrose, and had great pleasure in returning thanks to the government for the exertions made by the authorities to preserve the peace in I the city of which be had the honour to be a representative. Sir G. GREY said that he had been asked by the hon. member for Montrose a question, to which he felt it his duty to give a distinct answer. The hon. member take whether the meeting had been forcibly dispersed Mypolice whether it tad peaceably separated. He begged to state that the meeting was not forcibly dispersed by the police, but that the police commissioners acting under the autho rity of her Majesty's ministers, had notified to the persons composing and heading it that means would be taken to pre. vent the proceasion a pproaching the House of Commons or any of the public o ffi ces, and t h ereu pon the meeting was peaceably dissolved. But, at the same time that he stated this tact, he must say that he could not admit the inference drawn frum it by the hon. member fur Montrose —namely, that the preparations were useless or uncalled for. (lie 'r.) It was those preparations, and the knowledge that they had been made, which gave confidence to the loyal and well-dis k Pose d inhabitants of the metropolis, and struc terror into the minds ef the disaffected and moters of confusion. (Hear, hear.) Nothing could be more meritorious than the conduct of the great body of ' the people had been during the whole of Monday and that circumstance would have its effect throughout the country. Indeed, it had already, he believed, had a beneficial effect, I for the telegraph had brought him intelligence that morning that the best effects had al read y been produced in the gr provincial towns. He, therefore, entirely coincided in the I opinion that had been expressed, that the result would prove most beneficial, not only in England, but also throughout all Europe, as it would be manifest that t he authorities had been aided in the performance of their duties by the cordial co operation of the great body of the people themselves. Mr. IIUME said, that both the hon. and gallant member for Westminster and the right hon. baronet (Sir G. Grey) hod misstated his former observation. What he said was, not that the government were wrong in making the prepa rations they had done—On the contrary, he said they were right in so doing; but that he thought them wrong in having en ated a very disproportionate degree of alarm, as compared with the real apprehensions they entertained. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that before any communication had -been received from the commissioners of police, and even before the procession started for the place of meeting, it had been resolved that the assemblage should disperse after they had reached Kennington-common, and that no attempt to have a further procession to the house should be made: Mr. S. CRAWFORD wished to know whether, as the hon. member for Carlow had stated, there were in future to he no witnesses required t o depose as to sedition or treason able expressions under the bill ? Sir G. GREY would answer the question when the bill was in committee. On the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair, cries of " divide." and " no, no," were raised. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that as those who promised to act faithfully with him in oppasing the bill now cried " no" to the division, he should not press his claim. Mr. S. CRAWFOILLs then claimed a division, on which the gallery was cleared. 321 For going into committee Against it The SPEAKER left the chair. Mr. BERNAL at the table moved that the preamble be postponed. Clause 1 was agreed to. Clause 2 being put from the chair, Mr. J. O'CONNELL moved that the clause be omitted, in order that Ireland might be excluded from the operation of the bill. The hon. in mbar said, that the measure was ill-advised and untair. 111-sdvised, because the people of Ir. land bad the impression that nothing but coercion and harshness was ever practised towards them, and that the government had not made one step towards fulfilling its pro mises of equal justice to Ireland, made two years ago. The bill was unfair, bemuse it would have an es post facto effect, and punish a man for what he said before it became law. For these reasons he should divide the committee on the motion which he made, that clause 2 be struck out. Sir O. GREY asked the hon. member whether there was any reason to be alleged, why the law concerning high trea son should not be the same in Ireland as in England. All that the bill proposed to effect, was to bring under the power , of the law those who incited to treason or to compass the death of her Majesty and there eould be no reason why thee same law that prevailed in England should not prevail in Ireland. He did not mean to assert, nor did he believe, that these were any persons in that country who wished to com mit the crime tie had described, but there could be no ground for refusing to epee to a law for Ireland which was in force in England. After some discussion between Mr. F. O'Connort, the Arroetege-Clanestalt, and Mr. GRATTAN, the clause was agreed to. Clause 3 was read and amended by substituting the words " united kingdom " for " realm." Sir G. GREY said that the house was by this time aware of the real nature of the bill. Several amendments had been proposed during its progress, but, with the exception of the ' introduction of the words " by open and advised speaking," the powers contained in the bill were precisely the same as those contained in former and existing acts of parliament. Th. ressen for inserting to ose w orde was, that the existing law was found to be inefficacious as re garded persons who excited others to sedition and treason by their ape chi s; and in Ireland even when persons who had used seditious and treasonable language were suhjec'ed to prose cutiott for the same, they we re under the existing law still able to continue in the commission of that offence ' even during the interval of their being accused and held to hail. and of their being tried. The house was already aware from the observations of the Solicitor-General, that emus important alterations had been proposed in the bill, and with respect to the difficulty that had been suggested of rendering words spoken Haile to the penalties inflicted by the measure, he was ready to admit that more deliberation was requisite to produce a written than to utter a declaration of sedition or treason ; but when he heard such declarations made day ai'er day, in speeches at public meetings as well allas private meetings, then h e must say that they possessed the character that could be attributed to tke most deliberate writings. But he was ready to how to the feeling expressed on this subject by the house and to guard against too great a severity of the applica tion of the law in cases where such severity was not called for. At the same time ministers did think that it was advisable to constitute such off. noes of a higher degree than misdemeanors, and to declare them to be felonies, for in the latter case the per-on so accused could not repsatnot be ha offence before be was brought to justice, as it would bailable under the proposed law. When, however, it wall said that this was the first time any minister proposed to make such an offence as words advisedly spoken a felony, and to subject the speaker of them to the penalties of the bill, this was errtne .us. The second clause of a bill intro duced by Mr. Patin the 36th Geo. 111, contained a proviso much more strineent than that in the bill before the house. That measure, h .wever, he was ready to admit was only a temporary one, and was afterwards repealed. There was contained in it a clause whereby it was rendered necessary, in order to bring any pet ,:m under its operation, that the information of his having uttered Ire aeonable or seditious expri ssions, should be deposed on e ath before two justices of the peace, by two witnesses, within three days of the time when the expressions were uttered, and also that the person accused should be brought to trial within three months of the time when the deposition was taken bythemagistrates. That proviso and the precautions taken by it were altogether fair, and ministers were ready to adopt them, and to insert them ni the present Lill. The amend ments the hon. member had indicated they were willing to adopt, but they could not and would not recede from the rinciple making this offence felony. In answer to Mr. F. O'Corrison, Sir G. GREY said that in prosecutions under this act, the printers of newspapers in which inflammatory articles ap peared would be held accountable, unless the party writing the article chose to declare himself the writer. Mr. F. O'CONNOR complained of the harshness of this provision. In several instances he hacl been prosecuted fo r r paragraphs which bad appeared in his paper without cognisance. Surely, then, the law as it stood, was sufficiently stringent. Ile feared that the panting of this law would be the signal for the formation of secret political societies all over the country. Mr. AGLIONBY wished to move an amendment in the third line of clause 3. The clause ran : " And be it enacted, that if any person whatsoever, after the passing of this act, shall within the realm or without, compass, manioc, invent, devise, or intend to deprive or depose our most gracious lady the Queen," &c. His amendment was, that the words " do. prise, or" be struck out. Be considered the wording of the clause to have a most dangerous scope. According to his construction the clause, as at present worded, would subject to transportation any person who should propose the separa tion of any_of the colonies from the mother-country. The ATTORNEY -0 ENERAL said that the wording of the clauses was copied from the 53rd George 111. They would not subject to the penalties of transportation a person who should discuss the question of the separation of a coicay in ale gel and constitutional manner. Mr. E. OSBORNE suogested that the addition of the word " forcibly" would answer the hon. member's purpose. Sir G. GREY denied that the words " deprive or depose" would subject to transportation any person proposing to par liament the seputtion of a colony in a legitimate way. To insert the words " forcibly or by arms" would render the clause insuflicient. Suppose •general to give up to the enemy a fortress entrusted to his charge ; that would be treason, but would not be an act perpetrated forcibly or by arms. Mr. MARTIN feared that the clause as it stood would subject to transportation any person agitating the question of the repeal of the union. Mr. ANSTBY said that the advocates of the repeal of the union did not seek to separate the countries. Their object was to have separate legislatures, united by the golden link of the mown. Mr. R. PALMER considered that the clause referred only to such compassing and im a g inin g as were treason under the existing law. (Hear, hear.) Mr. MOWATT said it appeared to him that in the matter of thin bill the house and the government were legislating under the influence of panic. I Hear, hear.) lie considered it monstrous that government should endeavour, under such an influence, to pass a law making felony that which had never been felony before, and trying it 1,, evi dence such as never before bad been admitted in similar cases. it was only under the influence of panic that the house would listen to such a proposition. He called upon the government to alter the clause. Mr. AOLION BY was induced to withdraw his amend ment, on the understanding that the question involved was to be re-opened on the third reading. The house should, however, distinctly understand, that any person "compass ing, devising, or imagining," to deprive the Queen of any of her posseasions, whether by force or otherwise, would be subject to the penalties of this act. (Hear, hear.) After a few words from Mr. lloan and the ATCOHNEY- GENERAL, Mr. G. THOMPSON said that the first sentence of the clause constituted a new offence. Witn respect to the re mainder he was not satisfied to accept the construction put upon it by the officers of government. A person indicted under the act would be tried by its letter, and would not have the benefit of any comments that might be delivered in that house. A desultory conversation followed, in the course of which several hon. members found fault with different words in the clause. At its termination, Mr. HORSMAN having riven to take the sense of the committee on the words " open and advised speakine," Mr. AGLIONBY expressed his willingness to withdraw his amendments, sad leave the matter in the more able hands of his colleague. Sir G. GREY said it now appeared that they were going to have a full discussion on the wording of the clause. That being the case, and he having undertaken that the hon. member for Limerick's motion should come on at five o'clock, he thought the better way would be to report pro gem, and ask leave to sit agai n at 12 o'clock tomorrow ( this day). (Hear, hear.) IG.IKRAN reported progress at five minutes to four The L o'clock, and the house adjourned till five. KINSALE ELECTION. The SPEAKER reported that the recognisance* entered into by the petitioners in this case were uno' a ctionable. NEW WRIT FOR BEWDLEY . Captain RUSHOUT moved that Mr. Speaker do issue his I warrant to the clerk of the crown to make out a new writ for the electing e burgess to serve in this present parliament for the borougn of Bewdley, in the room of Thomas James Ireland, Esq., whose election had been declared void. Sir J. HANMER moved, as an amendment, that the return for Bewdley having been declared void fur bribery and corrupt beating, and other corrupt practices stabdition to have prev ailed there, it is necessary to consider the con of the elective franchise in that place, with a view to its reform, and in the meantime to suspend the writ. Ile adopted this course not merely in reference to the borough of Bewdley, but because he considered a general question arose out of the corrupt practices which had been proved to have taken place there and elsewhere at the last election. The pernicious practice of bribery destroyed the pride and purity of citizenship, and if it were not put a stop te it would lead to &result affecting tbe honour, the inde pendence, and perhaps something more, of that house. Ile admitted the difficulty of dealing with a great national settle ment of a question such as the Reform Bill, hut after the repeated instances of bribery and treating which had been proved before committees of the house, deal with it they must sooner or later, and the sooner, in his opinion, the better fur the country and the honour of parliament. The example had been already set in the disfranchisement of Sudbury. That the present law was defective was shown by the fact that the member whose agent, against his express authority, committed an indiscretion, was placed in the same position as the man who carried on the most systematic bribery. On the other hand, it was idle to un seat members and permit corrupt constituencies to pass unpunished. The practical result of such a course was the existence of boroughs just as corrupt as Garton or Old Sarum. He wished theretore to provide, whenever an electien was declared void from bribery, that ulterior measures should be taken, either for the purpose of further inquiry or of punishing the constitueecy. He admitted that the law upon treating required to be altered, for he considered that there was too much prudery and severity upon the subject. (Hear.) Mr. HUME, in seconding the amendment, said that he went still further than the hon. gentleman; for in his opinion a large and sweeping measure of reform waarequired for that house. Mr. BLACKSTONE briefly supported the motion, and opposed the amendment as indefinite. Sir J. HANMER was ready to propose a definite plan, and only abstained from doing so at present out of respect for the house. Mr. W. Wrens said a few words against, mid Mr. BWAHT in favour of, the amendment . Lord CASTLEREAGH said there were strong reasons for endeavouring to correct the electioneering practices at liewdley ; but he thought they ought to deal with this borough in the same way as with Harwich. If a future re form bill were called for, it would be well to begin laying the ' axe to the root of the tree in these boroughs, nod he shuuld be ready to mete out the name justice to them all. The house divided—For theamendment 3S Arrainst a it SO-12 The writ was then ordered to issue. REPEAL OF THE UNION. Mr. J. O'CONNELL, after presenting a petition from a piece in Roscommon, praying fur a repeal of the legislative anion, moved that ft should be read by the clerk at the table. This being done, the hon. member said the petitian con tained the whole case for the repeal of the anion. Its state ments had often been put forward by the Irish people, and they were convincing reasons why the house ought to take the subject into consideration. He was aware the subject presented itself under great difficulties• the house was already exhausted with the discussion of the new Coercion Bill ; but he felt bound to proceed with his motion. Other difficulties were, the feebleness of the adroc tie, the pre possession of many hon. members against the motion, the love of domination, and the feeling of self interest. He would not attribute all the opposition to the motion to the two latter feelings ; the probability was that its opponents were ac tuated by a ear of injuring the welfare of the united kingdom by any change. Self-interest doubt less actuated many. who feared that their particular inter ests might be weakened. Recent proceedings in Ireland had strengthened the aversion of the house to consider this matter, and no one deplored, t n this account, more than himself, the wild language and dangerous doctrines which had been promulgated in Ireland. He had always told the people that their appeal ought to be to this house, and was now prepared to lay their claims before it. He w,s con vinced that repeal would not only benefit. Ireland but Eng land also, otherwise he would not support it. Many hon. members, be understood, were more disposed to e n tertain this subject than they were a year ago ; and I he hoped the recent proceedings in Ireland would not deprive him of the support of these members. While depre cating the menaces that had been thrown out, he could not but feel that if he were prevented from simply bringing in this bill, with the view to its further consideration after Easter, the effect would be most disastrous ; the minds of the people would be inflamed, and the influence of those who sought to keep them peaceable would be greatly diminished. He trusted he was not mistaken in hoping that he should be allowed to introduce the bill. That repeal was the demand of the people of Irelend themselves, few persons would be disposed to deny. Even when battling for catholic emanci pation, the late Mr. O'Connell had been frscinently urged to postpone that question to that of an Irish parliament ; but he thought that, until an equality of civil rights was gained, there was little chance of obtaining sa te d he peal of the union. When emancipation was gra, could not forego the struggle for repeal, without abandoning his duty end appointed mission on earth. Had be done so,the peop le would have gone on without him, and other leaders might have led them on to violent measures. Early in 1833, the agitation for an independent legislature had attained ouch &height as to attract the notice of the ministers of the crown. In 1834, Mr. O'Connel had brought the question forward in the legislature ; but he had been met by a pledge, that though repeal could not be granted, full justice in every other particular should be promptly conceded. This pledge had all the force of an act of the legislature, for it was concurred in by both houses and by the monarch on the throne. Accordingly, for six years, the agitation ceased , at considerable sacrifice of confidence in Mr. O'Connell, which affected him to the last hour of his life. In 1840, the agitation was renewed; in 1843, those sublime demenearations wire made, whiat astcLizhci the world; and thus the people irrerersibly recorded their determination to real. Thouh eircurana.-_, including the awful have calamit pe y of tut year g , had delayed its triumph, the feeling of the people was as powerful now in favour of repeal as in 1843. Their determination was not to be repressed by any MOMS; it displayed itself in the pe titions he had that night presented. The bill he now pro posed to introduce was one " the better to enable her Ida , Pete to summon her parliament in Ireland,'_' which had ' been prepared by the late Mr. O'Connell. The preamble asserted the necemity of repeal of the union, on account of its injurious effects. The first clause enacted the repeal; the second secured the succession ; the third related to the regency, the fourth to the House of Lords, and the remain ing clauses allocated the 300 representatives to be given to Ireland to the different towns and districts. This was in substance the whole of the measure. lie was aware that technical objections might be raised as to the relative contributions of the two countries to the expenses of the state, the terms of commercial intercourse, and so en ; but these were all matters which might be settled independently of the bill, either before or after it was passed. As, at the union, the articles were embodied in a separate treaty, so the articles of the repeal might be separately agreed en. In his view the Irish parliament ought to be constituted before these terms and treaties could be fairly entered into. But if it wero held that the treaties should first be Bette d. some such bill as this would be necessary as a groundwork. There • fore, no technical objections of this kind ought to avail. In support of the demand of Ireland for a separate legislature, he had to arraign the union, which now existed for 48 years, as unjust, injurious, and unwise. It began in injustice be cause Ireland was no consenting party to the union. It protested against that act. lie had the authority of Lord w er e 70 and the late Earl Grey for that statement. There were 707,000 petitioners against the union, and only 3,000 in favour of it. That measure was passed by means of the greatest corruption and intimidation. There were 40 peers, 12 bishops, and nine judires made with a view of carrying it. One person had got 8,0001. for hi+ vote, and some besides the money had got other substantial advan tages. He would not allude to the rebellion of 1798, although there was abundant evidence to prove that the go vernment connived at and encouraged that rebellion, in order to effect the union. (Hear, hear.) But he denied that the parliament had the capacity of voting the union. It was commiesioned, in the words of Lord Plunliet, is make laws, and not to supersede constitutions. There was no doubt that the union was commenced in injustice, and that it was continued in injustice. (Hear, hear.) Even at the time of the union Lord Castlereagh declared that Ire -1 wiand was entitled rm to 108 memb.vs, but there they were, even th the Refo Bill, with three members short of that number. (Hear, hear.) The truth was the Irish members had no power in that house. All other interests were at tended to in it The West India interest had lately had a com mittee granted to inquire into their grievances. But there was no hope of a committee to inquire into the grievances of Ire land. Another great disadvantage was, that the seat of legisla- We was too distant from Ireland. Public opinion in Ireland had too far to travel b fore it reached that house, and it was utterly weak when it had to contend with English prepos sessions. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. baronet, the mem ber for Tamwerth, and the noble lord, both declared that Ireland should he placed on a footing of equality with this country. He believed that they were bete sincere in that declaration, but the fact was, that they could net carry out their intentions in consequence of the difficulty of getting English members to give their attention to the case of Ire land. Tney were too much afraid of an English nvjority to be able to do substantial ju stice to his country . Ireland was still subject to numerous anomalies, electoral and municipal. ' And it, the poorest country in the world, was saddled with a rich church to which the great body of the people did not belong. If, according to the maxim of the chstitution, representation was to be based on taxation and pop lation, Ireland was at least entitled to 230 members, while England would be entitled to 419. The act of union had moreover inflicted on Ireland the greatest financial injustice. The whole expenditure of the government of Ireland had been 'defrayed since the union from the revenues of Ireland, and a balance of 20,000,0001. had been moreover remitted to this country. He admitted that Ireland ought to pay her share of the imperial burdens, besides her own expenditure for local purposes, but she ought, also, to participate in the be nefits arising from imperial expenditure. That was not the case however. He thought he had shown that the union had been productive of continued injustice to Ireland. Ile would now come to the next point, and would show that the union had been injurious to Ireland. Ile would first pro duce testimony of the state of Ireland before the union and after the union. The hon. gentleman then read statements of the late Lord Clare, the chief artificer of the union, and Lord Plunket, which represented the progress of Ireland in material prosperity before the union as unpre cedented and astonishing. The hon. gentleman then quoted the evidence, Wien before various committees of that house, showing the misery which existed in Ireland since the union. She was never in so distressed a state as at the resent mo ment. Lest year there were 4,000,000 of person p t receiving alms ; 1,000,000 had perished from the face of the earth ; a quarter of a million hail emigrated, and of these 30,000 had died. lie hoped, therefore, that he would hear no more of the argument that the union had been productive of benefit to Ireland. lie was prepared to show that the union wes the cause of the "fractal condition of that country, because it drained away its money which was the sinew and life-blood of the body politic. It deprived her of trade and commerce, and left her population totally dependent on the land—the competition for which was one of the greatest evils of Ire land. Her outgoings in the shap e of absentee rents, paments f a r manufactured goods, &c., amounted to 17,750,0001., y whilst the value of her corn, linen, manufactures. and cattle ex ports did not amount to mare than 12,500,0001., leaving a balance against the country of more than 5,000,0001. He contended that the union had occasioned the drain from Ireland of her corn and other articles of consumption year after year, and this at times when in Ireland herself the people were famishing for want of the very food thus taken from her. The union, too, had occasioned the curse of absenteeism, which had inflicted such evils upon Ireland. He complained that Ireland was most unfairly taxed towards the eapen-es of the empire, considering the limited character of her resource', as compared with those of England. Since the union the imperial parliament hail relieved England of taxation to the extent of .51,230,0001., but Ireland only to the extent of 2,900,0001.; while during the same period the revenue of England had increased from 37,000,000 to .54,000,000, that of Ireland had only increased from 3,700,0001. to 400,0001. He admitted that England paid 12,000,000 per annum of separate taxation, but this was less than the amount which, even at the time of the union, is advocates declared that Eng land should fairly pay in the way of separate taxation. lie contended that if the union were repealed the effect would be so great upon the condition of Ireland, her pros perity would so speedily and so largely be rained, that she would he able, ere long, to contribute a far greater amount of taxation to the resources of the empire, than she ever would while she remained united. lie was convinced that she would be able to contribute fully 7,000,000 to the general exchequer, and thus relieve the right hon. gentle man opposite from any necessity for new taxes. The fact was that Ireland was impoverished, from having every acre of her land mortaaged for the enormous debt of Great Britain, which weighed down her energies like an incubus. In calculating the imposition of taxes it had been the custom of the imperial government to estimate the pro portion of Ireland at one-ninth of the whole, whereas, did the prosperity of Ireland, as it should do, equal the prosperity of England, her prop,rtion should be that of her population, one-third. lie contended, in the third place, that the union was not only nationally injurious to b alb par ties, but politically unwise, as a measure which kept Ireland in a constant state of excitement and discontent. and ren dered her a constant source of anxiety and alarm to this country. lie would admit his belief that the government would be able to put down the existing agitation, which injudicious or mischievous men were creating, or rather fomenting ; but he would put it to the gout ument well to weigh the immense expenditure, not simply of blood, but of hard cash, which they must inevitably incur in the struggle. How infinitely better, by the timely concession of just claims, to avert this fearful crisis, and secure for ever the affections of the Irish people. Tnat people had no desire to evade the , contribution of their fail share of the burdens of the em pire ; all they asked in this respect was to be enabled to provide the means out of their own soil. He urged that England should take timely measures to secure Ireland from throwing herself in her desperation into the arms of a foreign power. Such a course on her part-1 which might God avert—would, no doubt, prove her ruin ; but it would also be a most destructive blow to England. H e contended that Ireland had a clear statutory right to de mewl an independent parliament. A, to the argument that the restoration of the Irish parliament would be an injun , to the Irish people, from the corruption which pest exaeri ence had shown to pervade an Irish parliament—this, at all events, was a matter for the election of the Irish people, and they all preferred a parliament of their own, even were it a corrupt and boroughmongericg one, such as that of former periods—which need not at all be the case—ti an imperial one, which paid no heed whatever to the national interests of Ireland. As a catholic, he would even add, that he would prefer the revival of the penal laws t 1 the perma nence of a system which forbade Ireland to legislate for her own affairs. I: had been very unfairly tirg.d that the Irish parliament had always been a truckling parliament to the English legislature. True, it had been so; but nevertheless it had always protected the purses of the people, and had prevented the finances of Ireland front being unjustly bur- ' dened. In 1724 there was a surplus revenae, and the Irish parliament, fearing that the English minister would seize on it tor the purposes of England, resolved to prevent this by expending it on works executed for the sole benefit of Ire land, in canals, bridges, and public buildings. This had been the cause of the charge brought against the memory of the Irish parliament, that it had beeu corrupt and extrava gant in the disposal of the public money ; but even admit ting that such was the case, which he would not deny, still the cause arose out of good meei v e s. Besides, if the old parliament of Ireland had been ever so corrupt, why should it continue to be so? Why could it not be reformed ? Was reform to be confined to the pre sent house ? Notwithstanding, however, all its corrupt• nem, he repeated he was willing to have that parliament again, rather than continue to submit to the united legisla tion. The old Irish parliament, besides, rendered two of the greatest services that could be offered to the British empire, —that, namely, of repelling the French invasion of Roche, and of putting down the Irish rebellion of 1798. Those were services never to be forgotten. He thought he had esta blished the strong claims of that parliament, corrupt as it was, to be re-established as a legislature in Ireland. There now only remained the second objection to be disposed of, — namely, that urged on the supposition that future disagree ments would take place between England and Ireland in case repeal were granted and carried into effect. As far as the most recent events which preceded the union could show how little such a fear ought to prevail, he might refer to the regency question on the occasion of George 111., when the Irish parliament took the constitutional course of vesting the powers of the crown iu the next heir, rather than in the hands of the ministry ; and this fact Mewed that no apprehension of jealousy or dimension on questions of real moment to the empire could be fairly entertained. What were the real points of jealousy and mutual distrust between England and Ireland? Chiefly commercial and manufacturing questions. In these matters, whenever there had arisen differences between the two countries, they arose out of the conduct of England, who shut Ireland out of her colonial and carrying trade, as well as the trade between England and Ireland. But in 1792 colonial free trade was granted to Ireland, although the duties imposed on the ad mission of Irish produce and manufactures into England were maintained for many years afterwards. The next point on which objection to repeal had been raised was that of war; and on thus he must say that he thought an Irish parliament ought not to be bound to approve of a war with any foreign state, unless it was of opinion that such was just; but this could never constitute a subject of difference. lie now came to the consideration of the money contribution which Ireland ought in f iirness to be called upon to make towards the expenditure of the empire. The same arrangement might be adopted in this respect that had been enforced in the fiscal contribu tion settled between the two countries. The policy of Eng land in thee as in other respects, had been distrust of Ireland. The enormous resources of that country were sot known to England. The resources of Ireland had been on the constant increase during the last 45 years; and the in creased prosperity which would flow from the development of the resources of Ireland. and the awakening of her internal riches, and the industry and manufactures of his country, would soon enable her to contribute in a much larger measure than at, present to the wants of the imperial government. Many of the moat eminent statesmen of Eng. land had scouted the idea, that England could legis late better for Ireland than she could for herself. At a meeting of the Whig Club, May 7, 1800, at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, in London, Mr. Fox in the chair, aupp..rted by the Duke of Norfolk, Lord Holland, &c. &c. Mr. Fox said — The whole wheme (union) went upon that false and abominable presumption, that we could legislate better for the Irish than they could do for themselves—a principle founded upon the motet arrogant despotism and tyranny. There was not a more clear axiom in the science of politics than that man was his own natural governor, and hat he ought to legislate for himself. Plo other being could enter into has feelings, or have anything common in sympathy with his ' nature; sad therefore the legislatare of a people must flow wan outidle of, a nd he identified with, the people themselves. It Ito talk to Ireland of the word union, since there could be eq no such thing an a real u nion, on an ual footing, between countriess re disproportionate and unequal. Could the Irish believe that in this sonnexion they were to have art equal and availing voice in legislating for England, as the English were in legislating fur Ireland! Their was no maxim more true in philosophy or in politic. than the great moral doctrine, " Do se you would be done by." Examine thia meesure by that rule. Can the Irish bring themselves to believe that they will have any share or influence in legislating for England? Take it on the other side. Wh a t air Engli con- sh- I ma n would submit to see his destiny regulated and hisfs ducted by persons chosen for Belfast or Limerick I Ile believe/ that even in the present temper of the people of England they would not submit to the project of the union, if they thought that the Irish members were to have any influence on the British legislature. What, then, we could not suffer we ought not to impose. We ought not to presume to legislate for a ntion In udices, where f ee lings and affections, want s and interests, opinions and pre j we have no sympathy. It can only be attempted on the principle of the most arrogant despotism. It was an attack on the pride of a gall .nt nation, and was calculated to reduce them to the state, aa many of their own patriots had said, of a dependent p r ovin c e and it I was, in his opinion, a mint audacious attempt, after all that appeared in that country, mince it was adding insult to injury to call it a mu- sure in which the Irish acquiesced. That great man's speech deserved to be written in letters of geld. New, truly, had not the results of 48 years' experience of the legis lative, union proved Mr. Fox's prediction to be strictly and literally correct? Ireland underher own porno , aunt had been prosperous and happy, aid under the legisla- I five union had off, red the world an example of misrule and misery heretof ire never witnessed among civilised nations. If the parliament of England refused to restore her rights to Ireland, that country would shortly exhibit a scene of confu sion and anarchy unparalleled: whole armies would not suffice to restrain her within the bounds of moderation ; and the consequences, if timely concession was not made, would be frightful in the extreme. The people of Ireland fel a tth at at they were called upon to obey laws which they had hand in making, and which were odious to them. Ireland was al parr to Irishmen as England west* her own sons. The repeal party was anxious and willing tocome to any arrange ment that did not involve the continuance of the present system. Any concession would now be taken as a grace, and would for ..ver conciliate the people of Ireland. lie conjured them then to be wise in time, to be just in time, and not alienate from them men who had as strong an in terest in the welfare of the United Kingdom as themselves. Then might they use with truth those lines from the Latin poet which bad been quoted in mockery at the period of the anion : Paribus se legibus amble Invieter genteel ieterna in faders mittae. The hon. member concluded by moving for leave to bring in • bill to repeal the legislative union between Great Britain and Ireland, and to enable her Majesty to summon her par liament of Ireland. Mr. S. O'BRIEN seconded the motion. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said he TOW with considerable regret to oppose the motion of his hon. friend who had .lust sat down, because it was one which he felt convinced had largely engaged the sympathies of the Irish people. (Hear.) This was not the time to conceal facts, and therefore be freely and at sore confessed that the question of the legisla tive union was one which largely engaged the sympathies of the people of Ireland. He wee himself a living instance of the truth of that assertion, for he believed that if it were not for the feelings of personal regard and affection entertained for him by his constituents, he would not at that moment have the honour of a seat in parliament. (Hear, hear.) But he had this consolation an pursuing the course which he felt it his duty to pursue, that it was a course which he had always followed. He had always opposed any motion for dissolving the union between Eng land and Ireland, not from his interest in the imperial legislature, but because he believed that repeal would be most detrimental to the interests of Ireland. It was not his es intention to dwell u pe e, hon. fr or to fol iend had low, the long arrcy of Nets and figur which duced, neither should he discus the means by which the union had been carried. He believed that the people of Ire land, if happy and prosperous, would never have wasted a thought upon those subjects ; but being dissatisfied and un hippy, they readily laid the blame on bygone acts, which they were told had deprived them of their prosperity. Now, here he thought was the fallacy under which the Irish people laboured ; and it was that part of the statement of his hon. friend which he had listened to with the greatest surprise. His hon. friend had detailed the condition of the people of Ireland previous to the union, describing them as happy and contented, with no poor, their commerce flourishing, their artisans employed—in short, a perfect picture of na tional prosperity. Mr. J. O'CONNELL—I said they were progressing towards those results. Sir W. SOMERVILLE was sorry if he had misrepresent ed his hon. friend ; but he thought a greater fallacy was never pronounced than the assertion that the people of Ire land were contented and happy previous to the union. (Hear, hear.) Ile regretted deeply the state of poverty in which that people were sunk at the present moment; but he believed that, leaving out the famine years, their condition had been worse before the union than ever it was since. He would read to the house a few instances of the condition of the artisans and labourers of Ireland previous to the union, and let it be remembered that all his pr. ofs were drawn from the period between 1750 and 1800, which his hon. friend had quoted as being the period of Ireland's growing prosperity. In 1781 a petition was presented from Cork representing the artisans of that city to be in the deepest distress, and immediately after a similar petition from Wexford. In 1783, the lord mayor and cor poration of Dublin petitioned for restrictions on imports, to revive the drooping manufactures of the city. In 1786, Mr. Edwards of Old Court petitioned for parliamentary aid to enable him to bring over weavers to make finest cloth, and petitions of a similar nature were continuously presented be tween 1782 and 1800, with reference to the woollen, linen, and silk trades, all representing the ruined credit and impoverished condition of the parties concerned. Search through the whole records of the Irish parliament and the same picture would be found. (Hear, hear.) Perhaps hon. members who advocated the repeal of the union would think it hardly fair to go farther back than the period he had indicated; but be believed that the report of Lord Devon's commission would be equally apoliceble, whatever period of Irish history was selected. He would further say, that it there was anything for which the independent par liament was especially to blame, it was the utter neglect with which they had treated the Irish poor. (Hear, hear.) From that neglect they were now suffering, and would con tinue to suffer for many years. He blamed them on that account, because he held it, that the true mode of governing any country was to provide for the prosperity and comtorts of the poor, and in that material point both the independent and united parliaments had been lamentably deficient. (Hear, hear.) It was not until within the tut few years that this truth began to be impressed on the minds of gentlemen in that house, and it was only during the last year that any remedy for the national distress had been tried. lie opposed the motion, because he thought it would be politically and socially de trimental to Ireland. Ilia hon. friend bad asserted that the union bad reduced Ireland to the condition of a province. His (Sir \V. Somerville's) notion was, that if you repealed the union, he, as an Irishman, would at once become pro vincial. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend had said that every Irishman came into that house as a slave, and in uttering that sentiment hail put himself forward as the representative of the Irish people. He had said " we," as if those who differed from him had no right to have the feelings or the pride of an Irishman. lie did not feel himself a serf ; he looked upon himself as being a member as independent as any Englishman present. (Hear.) Therefore, his notion was, that if you le pealed the legislative union, you would trans form him from a member of the imperial legislation into an hon. member of an Irish provincial pariament, (Hear.) His hon. friend had said that an Irish would nut be an inde pendent parliament, and in that assertion his hon. friend was correct. Up to 1782, what with the help of Poyning's law, and other contrivances, the machine was somehow made to work, but after that it was no longer an independent machine, but one kept moving by the grossest and most ex tensive corruption. That being the case, provincialism would soon become intolerable. They must either take steps to become re united, or they would be forced in justice to themselves, and in order to tut& their own prophecies, to at tempt complete independence. (Hear.) The same argu ments now brought forward for repeal would then be urged with equal energy for separation. (liear, hear.) A fresh career of agitation would be commenced. disappointment would add flesh venom to that agitation, and the prosperity and tranquillity of the country would be indefinitely postponed. He felt that these statements would be unpalatable in many parts of his country, but standing there in the position he did, he felt bound openly and honestly to state his sentiments. These were the salient points of oh *non ; but fattier he would twit would Ireland, it inde pendent to-morrow , be able to st ied alone Hear, hear." fomorfMr. government, ce she of un an dertake e army, or f - tlte - p; on the e°l".4 ‘ ofdated met fund il" Hear," from Mr. S. O'Brien .) lier share of the debt now chargeabl They l o t been told of what had been done, and whathad beer led undone, by the imperial parliament during the but he eked confidently, could an Irish Otir.ament hiq oiouti ox 7 done bait as much ? (Hear, hem.) Wharhad theydom in the terrible famine of 1748, when so many of the peek perished ? They passed an act for the more speedy of rents. (Hear, hear.) He said, then, that to bring eo n " ?, so vital a change at such • moment as the present only to aggravate the miseries which even now app' reh o w- o h• o ia gort tr l od "efr u nt eed mhaetn> . country. Notwithstanding what had been aid friend, he believed Ireland had made rapid mod tuverds t edis las hcauldt t:l ,n e :ft d f isc be,or o men mf r prosperity, until the occurrence of the late famine. IC axy class were exempted from that prosperity it was the taloa clue which had been always the great difficult • of badlrehm iirtlgin e dclass,remedial been m ai e the d a. u i been of the present. Complaints had been motteaa he He • undervalue that. A bill had been introduced b his hon, friend the member for It mhdale, to extend the ten ia of Ulster ; that the goer rnment hadtho ught it Ito cutyt° — m eoo t They were, however, in no wise disposed to interfere oak the tenant-right of Ulster, and he wiehe d this tobe die finely understood; that they believed that any endese'll legalise that right would not be to comer a henefitoi cou ntry generally. The hon. and learned member m illi, O'Connell) had said that the course of go vemment too respect bad indisposed the people of Ulster to the um, nuatioo of the union: he (Sir. W. Somerville) did eo : believe one word of it. Then the hon. member referred t; the evils of absenteeism; but it was scarcely to he poto thot men would remain in a country in which nee: then properties nor their lives were sale ' arid it spoke bat h ole for the sincerity of throe who made this compla in t, t e ll the hon. member for Kerry, one of the moat determicied • nouncers of absenteeism, ae the late election, had brolet down to oppose him (Sir W. Somerville) , who spent , - t , greater part of his time on his property, a gentleman only recommendation was that he wes an absentee. I H e : Mr. ei O'CONNELL-I own the s ft impeachment A laugh.) Sir W. SOMERVILLE had only referred to this to Am that this was not a very practical mode of carrying out denunciations which the hon. gentleman nod othenhol o.• dulged in against absenteeism. They had heard of the pgsi. bility -of the alternative should repeal be relined-of&n. public being established in Ireland. There wu no money in the world to which republicanism was so ill slit as Ireland. (Hear, hear.) His belief was that ere long the present storm would blow over. He believed there won more loyalty and a greater determination to upbold the om. stitution and the connexion between the two countries in Ireland than was generally supposed. (Hear.) He meld much on the exertion of the Roman catholic clergy-(hem) -who had always been the advocates of mate, that tell would be the mediators en the present occasion between the government and the excited passion , of the people. (Hem.) His hon. friend (Mr. O'Brien) had held out a threat Met the property of all Irish proprietors who did not join the repeal movement might be confiscated. (Hear, hear.) Mai not that threat made? Was he to understand that if he should think it more advantageous for Ireland haul! that the union should be maintained than that it should d, generate into a province, that therefore his property was in danger of confiscation? Did his bo. friend consider the mischief and alarm that such throes occasioned? (Hear ) Notwithetending these thecae he should continue to devote his exertions to the welfare of his tenants, and he had the gratification to believe that should those threats even be carried into effect his trouts . o ,la not thank the hon. gentleman for the change of motas. (Hear.) He had at all times been the advocate of en so tension of the liberties and franchisee of the Irish people, and had ever used his best efforts to piece them on moos; footing with the people of Eneland-(hearl-aod ha was still prepared to use his best exertions to than for Irishmen every privilege which Englishmen to jailed. Further than that he could not go. Ile could oa On the part of Ireland, after she had assisted England to it. Min the height of prosperity, consent to forego the &denote which she was entitled to, and which through the uniaconl) could she obtain. (Hear.) With these feelings he could cot consent to any proposition for repealing the legislative ono between the two countries, nor to permit the question to be tampered and coquetted with by consenting to the introdio How of a bill for that purpose. He most, therefore, oppose the motion. Major BLACHALL thought that in the present feeling edireland it would riot be safe to pus a hill for repel* the union of the two cc untrics at this moment. At the seta time it could not be denied that from the ignorance of the imperial parliament of the circumstances and wants of In land laws were passed which did not tend to the prospect of that country. This evil would be obviated if the pew scent met occasionally in Ireland. Enoleind derived sou advantage from the presence of Irish members in Loads during parliament, and it was only reasonable that Brent should be similarly benefited by the money which would 11 spent in Dublin were the parliament occasionally held there The reasons advanced by the right hon. baronet the Sear Lary for Ireland against the motion of the hon. member It Limerick did not apply to the proposition which he (Slur Blacken) now submitted to the house in the shape of it amendment, namely, that an humble address be preseold to her Majesty, praying her to convene the imperial pen merit in future for a certain number of months in each yes in Dublin for the despatch of Irish business. Mr. M. O'CONNELL opposed the son 'lament and to ported the original motion. In reference to what had bee stated by the right hon. baronet the Secret iry for Ireloi respecting his election for Drogheda, he explained that's had introduced Mr. L. Murray not as a strongeror absent but as a repealer, in compliance with a request from be people of Drogheda, whose suffrages he had himself soles, 15 years ago. Upon the main question he contended the Ireland had gained nothing from her connexion with ton country, and that instead of being &source of s rength totter she wan an eyesore and a weakness. The right hon. Wow: had talked of the degradation of Ireland bring a promo. but what signified a name if the people were conteoted happy, which they never had been since the DIM and which he believed they never would be nor their legislative independence was restored to them He contended that Englishmen were not fit to legislate to Ireland, and cited in proof the fact that a noble iced whom he had spoken that evening did not know of theses tence of such a place in Ireland as Bandonbridp , (Laughter.) lie besought the house to consider the e 3 prese condition of Ireland : the people tnere had mad appeal to parliament, and they were preparing mole in the shape of an address to her Majeoty. The Or ment of Lord Clarendon. so much lauded here, had itherne the Irish people from this country ; fresh adhesions to ma were continually pouring in; and, if the moan; for conciliation was not seized, the consomme might be perilous to Ireland, and perpetually at• trimental to the welfare of this great empire. He set this not as a threat, but as a warning ; and he hoped th house would give the Irish people • one ground to hope the their appeal would be listened to. The disclosures with et Terence to the pike-manufacture had created an immeeseec sation in Ireland, and had made many converts to reps: A large force was concentrated in Dublin ; reoiments see marched in. and marched out again after a few days; mat was rumoured the reason was that repeal had found is we, into the army. He had left Dublin the preceding night, had been informed by a gentleman just before leaviso tin on Sunday evening last, the troops were fighting amouo themselves in the yard of the Linen-hall -repeaters stoo• anti-rpealers. On he same night a battle of th same e kind took p t lace between the troops co tt , quay, and some of the combatants were flail Ws the river. Let this be a warning to those who Irmo le liston to the requests of the I rOli pc p'.e, oho Hick ni madly refused all concessions. Viscount MORPETH. said, the long period during 'diet he had filled the o ffi ce of chief secretary for Ireland.ll,l deep interest he felt in its welfare, and the strong Melee"' he bore to it, induced him to offer a few remarks on O.) question. He ehould deeply deplore the tepee) of the Op tative union, from the consequencos it wouhl entail el Great Britain and the empire at large, as substitutist itt the present daily and hourly intercourse and ioterchame commodities the establishment of jealous reg.:ono,* Me hops hostile tariffs, total prohibitions, or evca boo tilt aggressions, between the two sister rash's; perhaps, perhaps, indeed, as had been hinted last night, a bathe public on either side of us. Disastrous as 000ld he oohs separation to the unity, tranquillity , and safety of the oe riuus country to which we belonged, yet, did lie believe:e repeal of the union would be beneficial to i n lrelan abate the fearful sufferings whic h there prevailed, or e, any security for rest and contentment, coull hord,onato there and express his opinion , a nd g ive his vote, for a continuance of the legislative union. He beficvedthete le peal of that union would be most disastrous to the best 0.. V: rests of Ireland. Two of the darkest features to e country's history were the sufferings of her re, and the cont rations of her inhabOonts. Eta! who had known Ireland must be thoroughly versant with the sufferings of the poor. Airmys neeno Fero, degree and wide in extent, that distress bed beecan t i n creased by . the famine or dearth of the last two • tress hod hove Without muffing the question how that do ~ lieved, and whether the exchequer of Englaiol miOeto, have done more-or complaining of the went of grel72 with which the assistance had been received -he add n r 2, nised the fact that from the imperial exchequer saiMM millions of pounds had been contributed in two years relief of Insh suffering. (H ear, hear.) To wele,ehM country could Ireland look in similar circumstance! iehh74 pitying look or the helping hand ? If she est.,h'isbel t er 7 as a sore in our vitals, she could not expect either te t ro disposition or the same means of rebel to cwt Would she look to France, whence it was said:tool, 77... to come to the assistance of Ireland? lie thous t:coeS, have been extremely difficult to obtain from tel t e n, 50,00 , 11. (Hear, hear.) And he much doub Ohoea the million of dollars paid to be promised from e e t e , ' , ;•" l States would be readily forthco m ing. f eir , , sk „), ! , The hon. member for Limerick alluded to the ease but be did not think the an a:o gy was complete, bees Sicily there were but little or no divenitiee of were no distinction. of creed'. The revolutions now taking place on the conti n ent were of ii take than of a political character. He wou ld not Me . e nor s, If the task of criticising the landlords of lrel had inherited great difficulties, and bed to cc many disadvantages. (Hear, hear.) Alneee it T 4 ,1 o to be found many, of the brighteet as oo to the worst of theu ; but when th . 1 ... 7b0 to the spirit that was rising there, and were told that on the coming struggle pr•Pf.rl_ utterly powerless, it should be ree4lleeted test ir:.! bits e power were swept away the wildest and the, 8 2_ „ wed schemes would prevail, and property woele amidst the hetorino billoees around it. (Hear, neos , o 0 i n g I'l4Po:steeled cares! . 110 lunch suordlit;oar'sw 'mann, and he had bees a party with " WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 12, 1848. THE EXP'