The Express. — London, England, 1848-08-26 00:00:00

Mr. J. O'CUNNBLL thoir ec ht t h at if th e a k a . were re tained it would prevent tit', Pepe from seeding any person to this country. He would suggest to the hon. and learned member for Youghai not to persevere in his amendment. Mr. ANsTRY O* A that he would withdraw his amendment. (lilear,hear.) 1 , be hon. and learned gentleman moved other verbal anno..iments, which were negatived without a din. sion.-I%m house then divided on the clause For the clause 7 9-57 Against it The clause was then agreed to. . . Gn the th ird clause, Mr. C. P EARSON moved the following amendment : " To insert, in the second lino of the third clause, after the words, ' that nothing herein contained,* the word. °flowing • shall authorac any intercourse or communion with tne see and chore i of home upon ecclesiastical and spiritui.. matters now forbidden by law. • The committee divided—For thest a m endment 29 Againt Mr. ANS'IEY moved the omission not certain words which seemed to I.vour the retention of penal statutes agiunst the Roman esthetic.. Lord J. RUSSELL said that any measures that might be brought ie hereafter for the repeal of those statutes %mud of course do away with the words referred to by the hon. and learned gentleman. The eavnitinent was negatived. Mr. ANSTEY said he would divide the house on the entire clause. ' The cony:letters divided—For the clause Against it -73 The clause was then agreed to, the bill passed through committee, and on resuming the house adjourned to six o'clock. The house resumed at six o'clock. COUNTY COURTS BAILIFFS. In answer t question from Capt. recto:et, Sir G. GREY stated that it was in contemplation to do away with the s.erices of high bailiffs to county ceurts in agricultural district, in which case the assistant bailiffs, on whom the duties would devolve, would have a claim for increased remuneration. NEW SOUTH WALES. Mr. F. .3COTT asked whether in the regulation proposed for Port Phillip and Sidney both districts would be included in one tail. or would there be a separate bill for each ? Mr. HAW ES said both would be included in ens bill. LEICESTER WRIT. ate. HUME, in musing that a new writ should i.sae for the borouen Leicester, lead that his orieinai opinion as, that no writ should issue for any of the borough , in which bribery had been proved until the corrupt practices bill had come into operation ; but as that bill had b. en rejected else where, he had now no course left but to move the issue of the writ. Mr. PACKE regretted that a speci a inquiry hod not been instituted is the cote of Leicester, the bribery and corruption there havicg bet n gr. ater than at any other place. Motion aniseed to—writ ordered to issue. TILE CHARTIST CONVICTS. Mr. WAKLEY, in referring to the petition he had pre sented compmioing of the treatment of the persons who had been convicted at tho Old Bailey of a misdemeanor in con nexion e ith the late chartist meeting', said that the peti tioners appeared to believe that the Home Secretary had issued special oilers that these prisoners should be treated with mere than ordinary severity while undergoing their punisement in the House of Correction, and that it was therefore ueeless to petition the Home-office or. its subject. Believing that its notions of the petitioners were altogether , unfounded, he was anxious, seeing the hon. member I for Maidstone, who was one of the visiting megistrates of the prison, iu his piece, to inquire whether it was true that any special instructions had been issued to treat these nrisoners with unu.ual or undue severity—whether they were treated as convicted felons—whether the allegations of the petition were - correct as to the condition of these prisoner , — ar whether they bed made any complaint to the visitrig justices with regard to their treatment ? Sir G. Ci REY, before his hon. friend answered the quer time which had been put, might be allowed to advert to that part of the petition which referred to his own conduct in the matter. The petition, though worded in the plural number. was signed only by one person, a Mr. 1). Grey, as chairmaa of a meeting, nor did it appear that it had emanated from any stet, meats made by any one of the prisoners. The peti tion alleged that special instructions had been sent from the Home-etiice an to the treatment of these prisoners. To that statement he gave an unqualified contradiction. (Hear, hear.) The Secretary of State had, in fact, no power to give such instructions. The prisoners in the House of Correction were classed under regulations made by the visitteg marts• Crates, and approved by the Secretary of State, as required by the act of parliament, and he had no power afterwards to interfere w , th them. With regard to the statement that it was useless to address the Home-office, the truth of that might bi gathered teem the feet that two of the prisoners had actually addressed a memorial to him (Sir G. Grey), which he had referred to the visiting magistrates, by whom the statements it contained would no doubt receive that consideration which was fitting and just. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DODD confirmed generally the statement of the rieht hon. baroutt, and added that the regulations under which the prisoners in the Hou eof Correction were classed were made when Lord Normanby was at the head of the Home office, and no alteration had since been made. 'I HE CONVICT JOHN MITCHEL. Mr. ROBINsON had been informed 1, a letter from riper genet friend of hie residing in Bermuda that this convict had been treated since his arrival at that station more as a state I prisoner than as a person convicted of felony ; that he had two rooms &dotted to him fcr his use; that he had a servant to wait en him; that he was not subject to any kind of labour; that he wore no distinctive dress; and that, in short, his position there was much better than that of many of the officers in her Majesty's service stationed in that island. He had no wish to press kanhly on this unhappy individual — far from it ; but he wished to ascertain whether the laws were fairly, justly, and impartially carried out in his case. (Hear) It was with that view that he bad given notice that he would put certain questions to the government The first question referred to the treatment et Mr. Mitchel on board the Secure, while on his passage to Bermuda. It had been stated, and was believed at Bermuda, that he messed with the officers of the ship. He wished to know whether this *tett anent was true ? He wished also to ask wheth, r any special orders had been given by the Secretary of State for the Home Department as to the treatment of Mr. Mitchel on his arrival at Bermuda? Also, whether any communication had been made to the Home-office from the authorities at Bermuda as to such treatment ? Sir G. GREY replied that, with regard to the treatment of Mr. Mitchel while on board the Scourge, and his messing with the officers of that ship, no information corroborative of the statement to which the hon. gentleman referred had reached the government; but from the information they did possess, and the nature of the instructions given to the cap tain of the Scourge, he wholly disbelieved that statement. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman must remember that Mr. Mit chel was not sent out in a convict-ship but in a man-of-war, and as it was not usual to seed out convicts in this way, special instructions were given to the captain, which instructions were issued by the Admiralty, directing him to take every precaution tor the security of the prisoner while at sea, add ing at the same time thre e as the prisoner was in a delicate state of health, he wee to have a separate cabin for his con finement, at the door of which a sentry was directed to be placed, and where his meals were to be conveyed to him. He had heard nothing to the contrary, and therefore he pre sumed these instructions had been carried out. When the prisoner was landed at Bermuda, a letter was delivered to the governor, from the Secretary of State, calling his atten tion to the case of this particular prisoner, which was Waal panied by the medical certificate of the medical officer at Siike Island, as to the state of the prisoner's health. With regard to the treatment of the prisoner since his arrival at Bermuda, government had received no information corro borative of the statement of thehon. gentleman. The only information they had was contained M a despatch, dated July 4, in which the governor, addresaiag Lord Grey, states that the medical inspector of convicts at the island had reported that the prisoner was suffering from chronic affection of the lunge, sod had been removed to the convict hospital ship. Since that, he (Sir G. Grey) understood that he hail been transferred to another convict-hulk, but he presumed the state of his health was such as to prevent his being employed in the bard labour to which convicts were ordinarily sub jected. PROVISION FOR IRISH DISTRESS. Sir D. N WIRE YS said that, in consequence of the statement of the noble lord (J .Rumell), that government would take upon themselves the respousibatte of meeting the distress of Ire land for the present, and that should the failure of the crops render it necessary, parliament would be called together at an early period, he would withdraw his notice of motion on this subject. APPOINTMENT OF AUDITOR-GENERAL OF THE MAURITIUS. _ In reply too question from Lord G. BENTINCK, Mr. lIAWES explained that Mr. Kerr, who had been appoinwl auditor-general, would receive the usual salary of 1,2501. a year ; he hud for some time filled the office id assistant auditor, and was promoted in due course on the retirement of the late auditor-general, who, in consideration of his long service (having been appointed in 1816), had been allowed to retire on the full pension of 8001. a year. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. In reply to a question from Lord 0. BENTINCK, The CH ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER announced that the Spirit Warehousing 13111 and the Copper Duties Bill would be taken at the evening sitting on Monday. It was also arranged between Lord Palmerston and Mr. Urquhart that the discussion on the Slave Trade (Muscat) Bill should be taken on the third reading. POOR LAW (IRELAND). On the order of the day for the committee of ways and means being read, Mr. P. SeltOPE rose to move the resolution of which he had given notice, " That no future appropriation of moneys "taken from general taxation be made in aid of the poor rate of Irish unions, er.cept on condition-1. That it be expended in the productive employment of the able-bodied poor. 2. That repayment be secured by a lien on the property im proved by the works, as well as on the rateable property of the union." lie said, the present mode of expenditure was wastetu 1 and demoralising ; and before parliament separated it was most desirable that it should be decided whether such a system was to continue or not. He was favourable to giving a right to relief; but he thought that the parties obtaining it should be employed upon productive labour. The only . employment given to the poor by the commission ers was etonebreaking, which they admitted was wholly un productive, and chosen because of its disagreeable character. Many requests and appeals had been made to them to alter thia plan, but they stated in reply that every proposition for employing the poor in reclaiming waste lands, draining, and other 'AMU,' works, was surrounded by such insurmount able aitticultiss that they could not consent to entertain any of them. In this he conceived lay the error, for he was satis fied that there was not a part of Ireland, he would say not a single union, which did not afford ample means of employment by public works for all the able-bodied i~ 1.- THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, AUGUST 26, 1848. country by which she was governed. In no history was so humiliating a picture sheens as that which Ireland exhibited at the present moment. He trusted the hones would pardon him if he had said anything to offend ear individual, but he would fling to the winds every prejudice or principle, in order to see Ireland made equal to England in that comfort and independence which en indus , rious pool le deserved to have secured to them by the goverment under which they lived. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON thought the suggestions of the hon. member for Stroud were well worthy ot the considera tion of the house , the government, and the country. Ile would add, as a forth, r suggestion, the adoption of an in come tax in Ireland, the revenues arising from which to be applied to the amelioration c,f the c: edition of the people and the relief of those districts in which from p verty and destitution poor rates could not be collected Mr. LABOUCHERE did not rise to protract the debate, but to express a hope that at this peri = l of the !es...ion end on the present state of the house, a debate on the state and condition of Ireland should not further he c nitinued, when no possible result could follow, but that his right hon. friend (the Chancellor of tae lisehequer) might now be allowed to proceed with his financial statement. (Hear.) AfVr a ter words from Mr. J. O'CONNELL, The motion was negatived without • division, and the house resolved its:lf into • committee of ways anti means. FINANCIAL STATEMENT, Tb• f•LIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose, nod said that though the question he had now to brine under the attention of the committee was of vast general Importance, yet from eta character it was Hot calculated to excite the same attention as the conversation which had just been interrupted on the mate of Ireland. At this period of the lesion it was, however, important that the statement he was about to make should be made this night, and with out further delay, and this was the 0..1y reason why the go vernment wished to press it now, and not because they thought the state of Ireland was in the slightest degree a matter to which they ought not to give due athntion, or that it was not a subject of paramount importance. Having said them much, which he hoped would satisfy hon. immix re that the government was not indifferent to the state of Ireland, he should at once enter ui on that which was • proper sub ject for the consideration of a committee of ways and means, and inform the committee of what he b. hued the financial state of the country to be, and what mell•Ilt es the government had adopted with respect to it. In the first place, it weuld be remembered that the whole or the estimates for the year having been vote t, the whole of the expenditure fee the y. ar was well known to every hon. member. In addition to this, at the beginning end on several occasions during the present 'einem various !statements have been made nom time to time which hive put hon. membets pretty well in possession of what was the state of affairs in this respect. Hence he did not suppose it would be expected that he had now to state much that was new ; but :still it was necessary that he should inform the house on tine occasion what was the ex penditure, what the present income, and of the manner in which be proposed t ) mace the income equal to the expendie tare. This he would do as shortly and as concisely as was in hie power. Hon. members would probably remember that when, early in the session, his noble friend at the head of the government made • statement of their prospects he held out to the country as follows: his noble fricud then estimated the probable recoils , " of revenue and income at 51,260,0001. ; ho estimated the charge for debt and other charges on the consolidated Mod at 31,280,6001., and the expenditure on the estimates at 21,820,441, making the total expenditure for the year 53,101,0111. His noble friend further stated the extra expense of the Kaffir war and the eve,' of naval expenditure for the preceding year to have *mounted to 1,345,411 e, which, auded to the previous amount of expenditure, as he had just stated, made a total of 54,446,452/e and ho intimated the int. ution of the government, to make an addition to the militia contiu gencies to the amount of 150,0001., which increased the estimated amount of expenditure for the present year to 51,596,452/. In order to meet this expenditure a proposal had been made by the government to raise the income tax from 3to 6 per cent., tor the next t• o years. Ibis would have increased the revenue to the amount of 3,500,0001., and made • total estimated income of 54,750,0001. To this proposition fur increasing the rate of the income tax we/ added one tor remitting the duty on copper ores. That variation would have lessened the amount of revenue by 40,0001., which, supposing parliament had acceded to the increase of income tax, would have reduzed the revenue to 64,710,000 1 ., from which, if the estimated expenditure, viz , 54,596,4521. was deducted, it would leave &simples of 113,5481. Hon. members would also recollect that tne proposal made early in the session was a temporary iucresse of taxation for a riod of two years, and the reason was that a great portion of the incrcaae of expenditure had arisen from circumstances of a temporary nature. Of these ho might mention the Kaffir war and the excess in naval expenditure, to which he had already alluded e anie which had occurred in the preceding year ; and it was necessary now to replace in the Ex chequer the moneys which had been thereby absorbedeA great pinion of those increased 'spews wee neceuary to carry oa the heavy works in the dockyard., which had been begun by the preceding government, met which it was desirable to carry out, and which he believed had incurred • logs to the country from their non-completion at an earlier period. Feeling this the government thought it necessary, in order to meet the heavy demands on the resources of the country to propose an addition for two years of 2 per cent. to the incase tax. That proposal on the part of the goverment hail cer tainly not been received with any favour by the House of I Commons, and he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was prepared to admit that the circumstances under which the country then laboured, with the distress which had prevailed during the preceding six or eight months, furnished a good reason why an increase of taxation was not submitted to. (Hear, bear.) Further than this, during the discussions which ensued upon the proposal of the go vernment, the circumstances which emu on the continent produced the greatest uncertainty with reference to the com mercial and financial affairs of the country, and this fact had made the government more willing to abstain from imposing any additional taxation, but to leave to future consideration and leebeation the most advisable course to be pursued. Since the withdrawal by the government of the proposition for increasing taxation tt had become necessary to reconsider the whole finances of the year, and to make such alterations in the proposal of the government as the altered Mecum emcees of the country rendered adesable . ; and he now came to state the course the government had pursued and its re sults. The first object and duty of the government, of course, had been to revise every item in the estimates. And here he must observe that, in the course of the two or three preceding years, no inconsiderable increase had been made in the expenditure not proposed by the present, but by the preceding government. lie found that in the year 1846 there had been an increase of estimate and charge, as com pared with the preceding year, to the extent of 1,610,0001., exclusive of those charges which were consequent on the transfer of the payment M . county rates in agricultural dis tricts, in consequence of the alteration in the corn laws, to the general revenue of the country. The whole of these charges involved an increase in the expenditure of nearly 2,000,0001. Now, his hon. friend the member for the \Vest Riding (Mr. Cullen) not long ago had said, and said most truly, that neither the present nor any other government was responsible for the increase of expenditure, in which the House of Commons had concurred. It was true that the proposed increase in the government es timates had been voted with very Ittle opposition, and his hon. friend said wisely that for that increase all parties were to blame, it blame there was, and that neither party ought to recriminate, but to look at the present state of the country and see if they could not one and all set their ',boul ders to the wheel and reduce the expenditure without im pairing the efficiency of the public service. In respect to one branch of the increased expenditure—he alluded to that fir increasing the national defences of the country—he thought the right honourable gentleman the member for Wiltshire (Mr. Sideey Herbert) had lest year only reflected the sense of the whole house, when he gated that there ex isted a general feeling of alarm that the country was insuffi ciently defended ; that the people out of doors entertained feelings of the same kind. Chat opinion had been happily changed ; but, for himself, he must say that he hal never been one of the alarmists ; and he was happy to think that the country had lately taken a different view of the subject. (Hear, hear.) Now, with a view to a reduction in the na tional expenditure, the first step taken by the govern. ment had been to obtain the appointment of two select commiteees—the one to look into and examine the mis cellaneous estimates—the other to take into considera tion the military and naval expenditure of the country. The result was, that honourable members had now before them two most able and valuable reports, from which the greatest possible information on each of these subjects could be derived. He must remark that it was not for the purpose of averting any responsibility from them selves that the government had moved for the appointment of these two select committees, but Dec mete it was thought it would prove most useful in order to enable the house itself with a great saving of time to make reductions with due dis crimination. On the appointment of these committees, the government nail turned its earnest attention to the subject, and it hail become his duty to call upon all the public departments to revise their estimates, having reeard to all possible economy, and he was bound to state that all departments had met the government in the same spirit, and the result had been a considerable reduction in the estimates as prepared originally and those since voted. In the amount of the forces no reduction had been made from the original proposal, which was believed to ba neces sary for the defence of the country. The opinion of the go vernment in that respect had been confirmed by the House of Commons in respect to both the military and naval force, and from the circumstances which had since taken place he could not think there was any reason to regret the proposal of the government and its adoption by parliament. In the manufacturi g districts in the north there had been a con stant demand for military protection, and that protection which those districts had • perfect right to demand the go vernment would have been ill able to hive afforded if they had not possessed the disposable military force which they had proposed, and to which parliament had acceded. With regard to other portions of the expenditure, it was con templated to make large reductions, and they had done so as far as was possible. The vote for the navy was reduced from the original estimate by the sum of 209,0001. The rote for the army, including the old militia, was reduced by 200,0001., the ordnance vote by 123,0001.; the miscellaneous vote by 235.000 i.; and the expenses of the militia, which were calm laud at 150,0001.—the whole reduction being 866,2001. From this was to be deducted 25,0001. on account of the pen sioners who were called out in aid of the civil force ; and some other small sums, amounting to 13,2001., which left the actual reduction of expenditure 828,0001. The expenditure for the year amounted to 31,280,8001. for the debt and other charges ea the Consolidated Fund. The expenses for the navy were 7,518,6101., for the army 7,120,7951., for the ord nance 2,801,7601., for miscellaneous 3,783,5701 , which, with the 25,0001. for the pensioners, made the votes in supply amount to 21.141,7351. Thus the total expenditure for the year was 52,422,3351. The receipts for the year were esti mated at 51,210,0001., and by the arrangement which he mentioned before, of applying the appropriations and to the servios of the present year, instead of al lowing them to accumulate . for the ensuing year ha a sum of 600,0001. became available fee this year. e d ' mentioned before that the barley mop of hot ear was an exceedingly good one.; There was, therefore, eonuderable increase in the excise revenue on ',cruet of the malt duty. There was, on the other hand, 'considerable falling off ex pected in the stamp daty, io consequ . ence of the dem:email= lot railways. But, on the whore, an increase was anticipated, and the amount of that increaxe was 340,0001., to which was to be added the sum of 80,0001 , the last remnant of the Chinese money, which made altogether an income of expenditure i t t h a e ra re therefore the ay ul deficiency292l733thwe Now, when the house recollected the statement that had fr ia t a lt,ooo and e ord T in h a ' ry re been made at the beginning of the year, he hoped that on the whole it would consider this to bra satisfactory state. men —(hear, hear;—and that it would give tne government credit for desiring as mach as possible to reduce the expendi lure. They thought it would be bad economy to make at once all the I...elections that had been recommended, but re- I ductions to a very great extent had been made; and rei . his hon. friend the Secretary to the A dmiralt y stated some time ago, it was hoped that further 'eduction, would he made had made redue nt i e . , t a t . Le a t r h i a n a tle anaatv e of h x 2s pe , 0 o n d o i t i u,re and. !'h i e ey hoped that would be taken as an Named of their anxious desire to equalise the expenditure and income. (Hear, hear.) Looking to the st ,te ot the continent and other causes, it would be very difficult to make an accurate statement re specting the revenue of the next year ; but unless some thing took place which he did not then foresee he had little doubt that the income would be more than the expen diture. (Hear, tear.) But he must refer to the execndr tore of past years—an exeenditure not incurred in the pre terit year, but for which it was necessary to make provision. The expenditure of the Kaffir war amounted to 1,100,000 e, which had to be paid out of the money in the Exchequer ; and, according to the invariable practice, at was neces sary to replace in the Exchequer the money so expended. It had also been found necessary to sub mit to the house on Wednesday two very considerable votes—one for the relief of Irish distress, and the other for paying the charges which had been incurred in providing medical assistance for the destitute Irish emigrants who went to Canada last year. The amount expended for the Kaffir war, and the navy excess, was 1,315,4111.; and the amount for the r. lief of the lrisn emigrants was 393,5101. making altogether 1,738,9211. to be added to the exce.s in the current expenditure of the year. The whole amount of deficiency was therefore 2,031,0001. Tim committee would remark that some time ago— in 1846 s ystem was proposed of making advances tor the purpose of drainage in England and Scotland, and for enraging proprietors in Ireland to improve their estates. 111$ noble friehd had pointed out the advantage of this is the paragraph which he had read to the house. A sem of 1,5( 0,0001. was allowed fir these purposes, which made up the sum of 3,500,0001., in round numbers. Now, with re spect to one of these purposes, drainage in Eegiaad, he had the power of issuing special Es chequer Bills. But that sys tem did not prove setbeactory, for it was found that the paper was invariably at a discount, and *old for less than ordi nary Exchequer Bills. Of this 3,500,0001., all that bail been advanced waa 510,0001. They were, therefore, liable to the I amount of the remaining 3,000,0001. It was impossible that anything like a demand to tide amount Could made upon, them in the pr sent year. but as the money already lent, was applied there would tie a greater demand tor more to com mence new works and to carry oe those al; eerily begun, so that 'the charge en the inersalirlatcd fund would be for a certain time an increasing charge. There were other charges under an act which had rowed two yeses ago. Ulmer this act 70,0001. was given tor New Zealand; 170.0001. for the colonies at Trisidad and Guiana; 30,0001. for Tobsgo, and some other sums which amounted altogether to 300,0001.„ with which the consolidated fund was also charged. It would be necessary for him to provide means to meet these demands. With regard to the mono , for the improved drain:see, there was the mist ample security. There was no que-tion on that point with reapect to England and Scotland. With regard to Ireland, the paragraph to which he before Retailed showed that the outlay would give a return of 8 per cent. A means of improved income was thus afforded to those who berroweil, aid no memo was half so like ly to im prove the character and physical candition of the labourer. lle, therefore, thought there was g oel security fur the money advanced for the improvements in Ireland also. Therefore, what he proposed to do was, to replace to the treasiry the amount of 2,000,0001., which was the excess of pet expendi ture, by borrowilig in the mark.e. In 1842—the last occa sion on which a niceaure of this kind was adopted—the course puree d, in order to meet the deficiency of that year, was to burrow on the quarter-day, by m. ens of deficiency bills, It was carried into effect in the January quarter of 1843, when the deficiency amounted to 8,560,0001. In the ensuing quarter 2,749,0001. was borrowed on ways and mains bins, and in the next quarter 4,803,0001., making altogether 7,519,0001. Now although that course was justified by suc cess on that occasion, he must say that it was a dangerous course to pursue, and one wheb, in the present prospect of things, he did not feel himself justified in following. He, therefore, (proposed to take the pewee whic the right. hon. baronet (Sir H. Peel) took in 1811 of raideg money to that amount by the lose of Exchequer Bills, or the er cation of , stuck. la the autumn of 1841 there was a deficiency of I two millions and a half, and parties were allowed to sub scribe money on Exchequer Bills or stimk was Cr. ated, and by these means a sum of 2,460,0001. was raised. Thin was the course, therefore, which be prop lied to adopt on the present occasion, though he admitted it was one which, in ordinary circumstances, was linble to objection. (Heer, hear.) It was increasing the debt in rim° of peace, but It mast be recollected that the eireunistnnees of the times were suce that the ordinary rules would not ap- ly. They proposed in the early part of the year to meet the defi ciency by subjecting the country to a temporary increase of taxation. Neither the house nor the country ti-ought it advisable to accede to that proposition, and the right hon. gentleman the member for Stamford, whose authority was of weight on such a point, said that there were good reasons why they should abandon it. Well, are, the house and the country were not wil'ing to submit to a temp awry increase of taxation, the government did not think they would be justi lied in imposing a permanent tax for the purpose of its paying the expenditure. They thought it would be very unwise to propose any addition to the customs or excise duties seeing that the house would not consent to the tem porary taxation proposed, which hest 11 thought was the most advisable mode of providing means to meet the deficiency. The circumstances under which this proposal was made were of no ordinary nature. Is the course of the last y. ar there hail been a famine in Ireland, and most severe commercial &erre, in this country, during th whole of the last autumn, renewed and eggravared in the present year by the revolu tions which had burst forth almost throughout Europe, to Pay nothing of the insurrectionary movements which had to a certain eats nt manifested tnemselves at home, lie d d not believe there was any modern instence of such a general des ruction of human food in any one country, as that which had occurred hie year in Ireland, and the demand for money to remedy the affliction had been, of course, proportionably unusual. The commercial distress of last autumn was most oppressive, and we were only just beginning to recover from the effects of it, when there burst forth on the continent that complication of revolutions which, independently of the present evils inflicted upon the countries undergoing them, put an almost instantaneous check—he might, indeed, call it a stop—to the export trade of England, as far as the conti nent was concerned, producing, as an obvious matter of course, a most destructive interruption in the employment of our artisans. At the present moment the mere blockade of the northern ports was operating most maleficially upon our commerce, and most deeply were we concerned, therefore, as a matter of self-interest alone, in the efforts which were making to put a stop to the unhappy hostilities between Denmark and Germany. It was an occasion on which earnestly to reflect how deeply England was interested in the preservation of the peace and prosperity of hi r neigh bours. (Hear, hear.) It bad been suggested that the distresses and disorganisation ef the continental tuitions must at all events be good for England in a commercial point of view; but this was a total and most mischievous fallacy. (Hear, hear.) He was convinced that even on the narrow ground of sell interest it was essential to us that the nations of the continent should bn peaceful and prosperous—(hear, hear)—and that to this end, not lets than to the ends of hu manity and christisnity, we ought in all direceons to apply our most earnest efforts to put art effectual stop to the ffis. order and disorganisation which so extensively prevailed among the continental states. (Hear, hear.) In the pre sent uncertainty of European affairs, it was, of course, very difficult to estimate, even approximately, our coming revenue, or the expenditure we might be called upon to make, but, unless things took a decidedly worse turn than he anticipated, he had every reason to hope that the next year would after' us a. reduced expenditure and an increased revenue. (Hear, hear.) In the present year, amid all the heavy disadvantages to which he had referred, he thought the house wonld agree with him that our position was much better than could have been hoped. (Hear, hear.) And he would rep, at, if only things on the continent did not tetro grade, there was every prospect that our revenue would in 'the forthcoming twelve months improve. (Hear, hear.) He would briefly state to the house a few facts, proving that, under the inevitable de pression to which our commerce and our finances had this last year been subjected, we had still been able to maintain a position, commercially mad financially, calculated to afford the British people great consolatory confidence in the re sources and, power of their country.. He would not draw a comparison with the year 1546 7, a year in which every thing had been carried on to an extent which we were not likely to see renewed for a while, but he would take the year 1845.6, and compare it with the year 1847-8. In the year 1845-6, ending sth April in the latter year, the ordinary revenue of this country was 51,2;58,0001. ; in the year 1847-8, ending sth April, 1848, the revenue was 51,627,01. so that, despite the terrible commercial distress of the latter period, the ordinary revenue exceeded that of the former period by several hundred thousand pounds. (Hear, hear.) He would advert to another satisfactory circumstance. In the beginning of 1847 it was his duty to state to the house his estimate of the probable income of that year. It had been, of course, impossible for him to foresee that revulsion of credit which afterwards occurred, but early in February he had calculated that the income of the year would amount to 52,065,0001., and, despite the revulsion of credit to which he had referred, the actual income of that year was not less than 51,627,0001., or only 438,0001. leas than the amount he had estimated. (Hear, hear.) In that year, he would further point out, there had been a very serious falling off in two important items, those of malt and spirits, entirely arising from the failure of the spring crops, which of course he could not have foreseen ; the falling off in the revenue upon these two items alone reached no less a sum than 1,400,0001., and the house would at once see to what an extent the general revenue from other sources must have improved, to have admitted of this heavy loss upon two items, with so small a diminution of the general revenue. (Hear, hear.) As to the prospects of the present year, they were, so far as they-at present went, anything but unsatisfactory. Taking the year from the sth of April in the preceding year,—no material distress havin g being then very from April to July, 1847, and the revenue was, upon the high—he found that in the present year there eempeei. whole revenue, a decrease of only 116,0001. the to the present time, and comparing it . with th e same period in deed, taken together, he found that, fas fr 57:00a01°.sszand, this year, there was an increase of som e , t allowing out of this for the corn dutiee, no a le son. (Hear, bear.) In the customs and excise douse, there was still n in the same puled last year, 200.0001. or 300,0001. in the customs. (Hear, hear.) With out making too sal guine a deduction from these facts, he increase in the customs of 22,0001. in the comparison, and of thought he might refer to them as affording a proof how, under the most disadvantageous circumstances, the energies soil power of this country maintained its people in a p wition of comparative superiority to evils whose effects promised to be so tearfuley oppressive, and as giving a clear indication how much may be looked forward to from commerce with the reetorati of tranquillity on the contine nt. The facts he had stated were further highly satisfactory as showing the great power of consumption in this country— (hear, hear) — en because, although the exports had to a great extent fallen off, the imports had been maintained to a very high puha; it was a great proof of the benefits of the general cheapness of c nicks that had prevailed for the last unitive months, that the people at liege had, amidst all tae pre enure of the times, been enabled to purchase so extensively as was proved to have been the case by the condition of the customs and ez , cise duties to which he had referred. (Hear, hear.) Deep cause bad we to be grateful for the state of peace which had prevailed among us, when we compared the condition of our revenue in these respects with that of the French customs revenue. It was, as he had before observed, inconsistent alike with the dictates of humanity and of policy to rejoice at the distresses dour neighbours; but as a most strikieg amnesties' of the blessings of tranquillity, and ho addressed it more em phatically to the mieguided men amongst us who, in sseking to destroy that tranquility here, tended to decr y their own means of subsistence—(hear, hear)—he would briefly coin pare the condition of the French customs revenue with that of England, his facts being taken, in each case, from offi cial elqcuments. In the five months, fr .m January to May, 1847, the French customs revenue amounted to 2,191,0001. ; in the same period of 1848 the receipts were only 1,290,0001., showing a diminution of not less than 900,0001., or 5-12ihe of ,het revenue. The customs rec ei p ts of Eng l.nd in the same months of 1847 were 8,308,001; in 1818, 8,207,0051.; being a decrease of only 100,0001., or 1-e3rel of the revenue ; and iri the last past month of the pre sent year he found th it the proceeds of the French customs had linen off no less than belt u compared with lest year. With regard to the state of trade in England at this moment, he did not me en of course Co *ay that it was in what could be called a flourishing condition ; but he had no hesitation ie declaring that through out the country it was in a sound and promiong condition —Omar, hear)—and that employment was f ecnming pr tey general. Turning to a tolerable criterion of the state of prelite—the state of the Bank—he found that the drain of hulli us, which had been represented as extreme, was by no means, in point of fact, so vensive. The bullion in the Bank on the 13th of August was 13,655,0001. ; on the 20th August, 13,371,0001. ; the reserve being on both occasions about a milli 'a. The raw materials of manufactures were generally cheap with us; and, upon the whole, while our present trade was in no un satisfactory state, we were, he considered, in a position pecu liarly adapted for taking immediate advantage of any favour able turn in the affair_ of the continent. The state of the craps throughout the country was obviously a matter of general and deep concern. Without going into detail, he would state that the general result of the inlormation he had collected was unhappily anything but fay. urablc as regarded the otato crop in the southern portions of &vend. In Scotland, however, end generally throughout the north, there seemed to be little or molting to apprehend in this respect. (Hear, hear.) As to the corn crops, also, there appeared no grounds for deseondercy northwards; and, in deed, as regarded the south of England, the rain, which had so plentifully visited London and the immediate neiahhour hood, had been only partial elsewh re. (Hear, hear.! From Ireland the accounts were so corned. tely centradietery that it was almost impossible to arrive at anything like a clear result. It would seem that in many parts much damage had been done to the potato crops; hut, again, it was stated that in a vast many cans where the stalk had turned black, the tuber, on examination, had been found mini, jured. Allowing, however, for ye tooxtensive destruction, the potato had this year been planted ouch an usual xtent in Ireland that, shout i it please Providence at this time to stay the ra vage of the disease, there would be still a crop fully equal. to the growth of former years. (Hear, hear.) Ile was fortified in this opinion by a communication he had that morning re ceived from Mayo, and which seemed the result of much in quiry into the subject. It must be borne in mind teat for various reasons there was a very general tendency in Ireland to exaggerate the probabilities of a bad crop there. (Heir.) There was a. prevalent tendency, moreover, to rely upon a renewal of that eleemosynary aid from England which, un der the visitation of last year, had been so plenteously ma corded, a chaise which he feared had op< rated in but too many instances to teteen the dependence of the labouring classes in Ireland upon their own energies. (Hear, hear.) He could not but regard this tendency as most injurious to the permanent wthare of those who indulged io it, and he considered therefore that it should be emphatically discoun tenanced. (Hear, hear.) lie did not think it just or expe• dient to hold out any prospect of a renewal of that comprehensive aid which had been before given ; end while it we ulo be manifestly inhuman and impossible to refuse relief to individuals who in t',e absence of such relief nowt die, Le must express the conviction that throughout Ireland the most entire discouragement shonld be given to the idea that upon upon all occasions there could be dis pensed in Ireland the extensive eleemosynary aid which had be. n distribu•ed there in the course of the past year. (Hear, hear.) It was his present opinion that the crops in Ireland would produce an adequate maintenance for the Irish people fur a long time to come. Should the reverse turn out to be the case, it would then be necessary t e recur to the wisdom of parliament for the best means of meeting the evil. The right hon. gentleman concluded, amidst loud cheers, by plac ing the vote in the hands of the chairman. Mr. BERNAL put the question that the sum of 10,584,8711. 9s. 10d. be applied towards making good the supply granted to her Majesty for the service of the year 1518-9. Mr. HUME said that it would be well for the right hon. gentleman to recollect, amidst the cheers and congratulations with which his stat, meet had been received, that it often happened to people in distress to congratulate themselves upon the prospect of a little relief, whilst, in fact, it ulti mately tuined out that such expectations were not realised. II a total straneer to the financial condition of the • country had witnessed the present proceeding he would certainly have come to the conclusion that great reduction in the expenditure of the country had bees effected by the right hon. gentleman, instead of which the upshot of his statement turned out to be that the country was about to borrow 2,000,0001. in order to make up the de ficiency that existed, after all the parings and savings stated by the right hon. gentleman had been allowed for. This was a fact de •g of the most serious consideration ; and when he came to understand what the state of the country was, and how serious the difficulties that surrounded her were, he must say he could not join in the congratulations that had been offered to the house. He felt this the more, be cause there bad been no hopes held outby the right hon.gen tleman that there would be effected any reduction in future 'urea the naval and military establishment the cost of which had occasioned all the evils under which the nation was groaning. It was not by such paltry reductions as 120,0001. that the requisite effect would be produced, and moreover it must be recollected that this reduction was only obtained by postponing the construction of public works, and not by the reduction of a single man in the army or navy. The only real raving in this te spect was the 150,000/. which would have been expended by calling out the militia contingents. Now he must again complain of the vast increase of expenditure that had taken place in the military establishments of the country during the thirty-three years of peace. There were more men under HMI in Ireland than there were voters. The number of even under arms in Ireland might be computed at between 60,000 and 70,00 el men. He doubted if the number of voters in that country could be found to muster 40,000. The business of that house was to one how they could permanently reduce the amount of taxa tion, which had gone on increasing of late years in a sur prising degree. There was an average excess of above four or five millions of expenditure over that of the ye-r 1841. The country had a great right to complain of this. Whose fault it was he would not attempt to examine. But the effect of this excessive taxation was to press down the people, and to destroy the . permanent interests of the nation. And, moreover, et must be recollected that the sum of 54,500,0001. brought into the treasury did that of Ethueropewhdoilde not t o o u i n fe t r ofmi any enco uragement g e eni xc e e n ee t e t il . b t a i l9 o :e n ooo, , not include the 4,600,0001. which was the con of collec eds,ooooet i. The right hon. gentleman had stated that the thin country to reduce her military establishment. He differed entirely from his right hon. friend on this point, for he did not think the external circumstances of Europe, or the internal state of the country, was such as to warrant so large a force being kept on foot. The working classes in were many persons in di ebs sati e tis ree fied England, the artisans and industrious citizens, were not starving and the unemployed portion of the de e. el disaffected towards the government. It was only the prison because they had spoken too freely tha m t ith the th re sit g ir e r e h e w o t t e lying ° t g o their sentiments. They had no more right to be shut up in gaol than many persons whom he saw on the benches near and around him, who bad spoken much more freely than those unfortunate persons. (" Hear " anal laughter.) Ile confessed that he had spoken as freely as an bod • y T respecting political events. He had never concealed his I' •po meal seatiments, and he hoped before long that there would be a cessation of this persecution. The right hon. gentleman pro posed to provide for the deficiency of 2,000,0001. by means of a loan. He would have to repeat the some operation next year, unless the government changed the system and reduced the military quietly disposed. Englend wasexpendi ture. He could not, he was sorry y to observe, say the same thing of Ireland. But that cou r bad been made what she is by bad legislation. The ri ght hon. gentleman proposed to raise the 2,000,0001. deficiency by creating 31, per cent. stock. This was a very dangerous and a very ruinous proceeding. If the government wanted money, why not borrow it at the price of the day E very loan effected by the creation of stock had proved 1 less to nation. In the last great loan of 15,000,0001. h e had t he shown that a lea of from two to three millions had been He hoped the same error would incurred. not be again com mitted. The government could very well borrow the ,sum required at 6 per cent., pay the interest for a year or two, and then take the ben fit (• a laugh)—of the price of money when it should become had cheaper . He could only express has deep regret that no hop es been held out of some future reduction of the mili tary had occasioned establishment which the financial difficulties under which the country laboured. Lord O. DENTINCK said he would • not dispute the•cor- --es % rectal" , of the hon, member's assittion when he new, he had held far stronger language than many of th e p, now confined for eeditious expressioris, seeing th at she member was the man who had ri commended.'" Canadians to throw off their alle e i se , as crown of Great Britain. With respect to the stotemsee house had heard from his right hon. trieuel, he era. of eek: that there never was a more insolvent aceuuut re n d s parliament than that of the Chsneellor of the R u h. to The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER z that-the amount expected to be readied by th e ena re `F:... had not been stated in the receipts 01 the esurent as a further falling off in the stamps was ai l ni e j p ,„ ed. w ould be probably covered by the 'mount re avoi i s MI corn entered. Lord G. BENTINCK said It was then entirely to he attributed to the temporary reetoration on the ern Les ch it the revenue was better by the sum or 300,0001. thaw it ti last year. But in the tint financial statement et i t govern ment the house hao been intorrned that the deh e oft e , a mounted to new 3,000,0001 n, which tobe cann.o,4 - 4 the additional amount of income tax calculatedat 3,;0000p1 The house, havirg put a stop to that project, as new hll that the malt duties had so far exceeded-the estimated p ee duco as to render the receipts of the excise 6.00,0001, .seta than they were the preceding year. The CHANcELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ,fated that he had included the customs increase in this sun sk i not the excise only. Lord O. BEN TINCK.—But the corn die its form pang the customs receipt*, and yet they arc not included 1,114 sum of &0,0001. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER isp l t i, ot that his statement wee to the effect that the customs see excise togethe r would funds., an exe.ta of 'beet million over the receipts of lost year, sod that the c wee had efforded 22,0001. above itic amount received fettle vas responding period of the preceuinst year. L n'd 0. BENTINCK said the meet hon. gentlem - na,lies, ever, did not specify what the deficiency was in the swore received for stamps; so that one the wh-ole, there num looked for a total decrease intim cost 'ins and eo loco uolvida I standing the allf ged iecreae on 600,6001. B.nt when the • ho n.gentlem an talkedof waking no his deficiency of 2,000,04 by the creation ot new st.ck, he mioht just as weal Wag flying late for it was an auslogeus .operation. Wheal talked of looking forwind to an iecreasing surplus hTtla t; co.er the existing deaciotcy, he forgot to intern the h mse where he (xp,et•.d this increase to come trom. Tat cern nuties, which had yielded 670,0001. a nto'tth, meld totally cease on the Ist of Febru.ry next Sr thot them would be a further decrease inattood of an increase iathe revenue ; and the sugar duties end cepper duties were aln items not likely to swell the figures is the columns of cm. toms receipts during the next year. The richt loon tenths man, in aping Sir It. Peel, had quite forgotten that wum M b meowed mom y :n 1842, he had just put on a prepay tse which yielded him a revenue of 0,000,000/. W 1 here. sh„, whole tenor of the right hon. gentleman's statement wu to show that there was a decreasing revenue and an increnisg deficiency. The confidence therefore &nolo) end by bin ot the present occasion was altogether unwarraut ble. Thee, again, when he tinted of having saved 8.50,0001. is them. rent yeat's expenditure, it must b.t recollected that the chief portion of this saving was in the sums appropriated for the construction of public works, which must be ploceated next year ; so that, taking the right hon. geutletuan's owe st dements, it could only be mid that tis prospects, instead ot being cheerful, were darker than tan. The relines presented to that :mum a f w days before showed that while the revenue from customs had decreased the expente rf colle.ting it had bten augmeated. Oa the whole be had never Lewd a s;a:ement mule. umatiftetory than that of the riAlit hon. I..toth.man. Mr. J. O'CONNELL made a few obeervatiocs with refer. erne to the frith portion of the right hon. gentlemaa's 'dares& Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that there was Cu. point which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had overlooked in his statement, and that was the 'gradual hicrease of the ur.funded , seht. On lookint over the returns he had mom Mined the increase to have isms upwards o! seem millions in two years. (Hear.) With respect to the general quo tion he did not think the government could Lave time better than they had done on the pres:nt <evasion. Mr. MUNTZ could not congratulate the government on their present display, but he was not at all surprised. The right hon. gentleman had spoken of the increase of tie customs; but how had that Lerease been !roc:heed? By the ruin of our merchan's, who had been übli!ed to sacrifice millions in the course of last year. (Hear.) He did not think that the Irish famine had disturbed our commemial affairs to the extent alleged, but at all events we had bor. rowed eight minims to inset it. Mr. DItUMMOND considered that we had came to the ne pins ultra of taxation, and that the circumstances of the country would not admit of nay more burdea.s. (Hear, hem.) If reductions were to be eff,e:ed iii the army and navy, the proper course for the noble lord at the head of the govern ment to take would be to send for the authorities in the• departments and take their opinion as to what was necessary for the defence or the country. Lord J. RUSSELL said that his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchoquir had stated the probabie defi ciency at ;300,0001, but that did not justify the assertion oldie hen. member for Montrose that no reduction in expenditure had been, or could be, made. Oa the c , ntrary, many ro ductions had been made and wou.d be made so a, to bring our ordinary expenditure permanently wit-in our iIICOML Ills right hon. friend had made no doclaratious about them then, but in former stemma they had been announced by the secretaries for the Admiralty and the w me.a..... At the ore time he must say that he did not regret having kept up the naval and military force of the country during the retest events. (Hear, hear.) Whatever compl iota might be made of their numberf, ho did not think that, with the events on the continent, with the excitement pt. dated bete, end the encouragement likely to be given to Mil. guided men, who thought they had only to go into the streets with knives and daggers to create a reveutioa; and with the late attempt in Ireland it woult have bees sound policy to have curtail d the army or navy. t lieu, ' hear.) He trusted, however, that before long they might be able to make some re:due:ion. lie did not think that much would be done in that way by following out the sug gestion of the hon. member for Surrey, as he (Lord) Russell) hod always found that he could make out an esti- mate 10,000 men less than the military authorities. (A laugh.) He had only further to say that government was not as yet in a poeitiou to state what they would do snare ' gard to Ireland. He hod still hopes that the potato hems would not be so great as had been expected, but still muck would be required, and he must only crave the madam of parliament in the matter. Mr. ROBINSON suggested that much relief-might be afforded in the way of commutation and revision of texatiom He wished also to point out that we loot three or four millions of revenue annualy by the indiscriminate applies tion of the principles of free trade. With these exception, he thought the statement of the right hon. gentleman very satisfactory. Mr. M.GREGOR would have preferred a 5 per cat income tax for one year, to be followed by a general !Ilia= of taxation ; but the experience of the session had convinced him that if such a propenition had been made, it would hare met with every obstrection, He thought the raising the money by cone.ls a wise plan, ea, if we should have a plentiful harvest, the deficiency could ba easily made up He thought the government statement qui e as satisfactore as could have been expected under the circumstances. Ba was anxious to reduce the expenditure. not by paltry a vings in the salaries of junior clerks, but by a careful revi sion of all the great heads of expenditure. The resolution that 10,581,8711. be granted out of the solidated fund was then agreed to. On the resolution authorising the raising of the 2,000,0001 deficiency by the issue of exchequer bills, or by three pm cent, stock, Mr. HUME suggested that it would be:better to raise tib, money by debentures at five per cent. than by selling stoek at present prices to be bought back at a future time at great increase. ' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER °Mend that the course he proposed was that which had been sin ally adopted, it being found that the money could. be raised on more easy terms in the the ee per cent stock, which was I the popular stock. Mr. DISRAELI asked whether Prawia was still ea independent state and in a position to act indepen dently, whether she had still a minister plenipoteethry at this court, or what was the nature of the lions at present subsi,ting between the court of St. James's I and Prussia—whether the King of Prussia was an indepen dent sovereign, and responsible for his cc's—but above all, whether there was any probability of a speeds termination of the blockade of the ports of the Baltic and the North Sea ? Lord PALMERSTON admitted that government had bees much disappointed as to the conclusion of the armistice between armistice. With regard to the guarantee of England to Denmark, England was not in a position to carry out that guarantee by force, for inasmuch as she was acting in some degree as a mediator, she could no: combine that character wan that of a pasty in the case, which she would be, if she undertook to carry out the guarantee. Tile question was not if Schleswig should be restored back to the King of Denmark, to which it belonged, but what should be the internal administration of Schleswig—whether it should be, as the Danish government wished, a constitution coal bined with that of Denmark, or as the Germane efederstion wished, a constitution combined with that of Holstein: It was not, therefore, a question of conquest or of forcibly wresting a territory from its sovereign, but merely one of government; and he trusted that the good sense of all the parties concerned would enable them to arrive at a wain factory settlement without bringing the guarantee Cato question, seeing that it did not bear on the practical point s& Issue. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DISRAELI admitted that while England acted m ' mediator, she should not be called on to enewee the gua rantee ; but when he first called attention to the subjetti _, lll ° had not been called upon to act in that character. li e imam to know how it was, it the noble lord undertook to mediate between Denmark and Germany, that during the proves of the mediation more than 40,600;,men of the German ont tingent arrived at the seat of war—an act which had led to the renewal of hostilities and the revival of the blockade. It appeared to him that when the circumstances which bad thus justified the renewal of the blockade occerred, the noble lord was at liberty to enforce the guarantee. , she Lo ha rd d P sh ALM osen E , PALMERSTO N —ssUmnedosubbeteell4igyesEs'asgt laisnsduiniadghsti us mediator, if one party had, having consented to the medie" tion, afterwards declared war ; but, as there was a probam: lily of still settling the question by mediation, it appetmu to him that that was the better course. (Hem) , Mr. DISRAELI—Why was it not made • condition the mediation that hostilities should not be renewed, lad that no armed contingents should be marched to the test of war ? Lord PALMERSTON—The first thing he did was Wpm pose an armistice, the terms of which attye been for seem time under discussion, but is not yet conclu ded. Ibe however, that the generals on both aides have received • dare to abstain fro! tice has been &ctne of hostilities. (CI Mr. COBULN, Manchesttr, woo him she inju-y blockade 01 the B *pa pad tlpresAy character of mtd, was the present at E n gland were is matter. ; yio„, bouse,becompluib • litle loan, and t Instead of this, th and pe 8 e e cy ght e • t hi iy u h" o lai te nte tt a nanefi e ye tham andg b i g s n he . s et haeder t icalihti nblnehretOnnie. housetii o r nihn o t seip c ct t ime . ddhwfeci . lls) . ‘l r ,‘' 1;1' distinct. 11: c . ta''yld e etr ri hg w e . ip noahl s e t , i u, hhf u. y a lmr °. rest rte ( : , '4l to e th pa de ts th b p th si he a mi NB increased ; and w to diminish mpt should state how rity of our ,nstlu Mr. ILUMB founded on these The CIIANC Monday. The resolutions BAT On the orutt this bill, Bur IL WILLt to the committs Forests rendir ppccuditure to part Merck io each yt Lord MORPE be paid to the en' Mr. FIUME, board, the anti through commits RENEWABLE Sir W. SO'I which lied bet n draw it. hoping suing mid , n, w in the meantime, Mr. M. J. 0' the bill, and wild fired to the Lon. The bill paw Dome amen Omen The house hat the West In.lis The CHANC: resolution auths American and In answer to I The CIIANC. the Mauritius principally apph Jamaie..is, ant' It Ultirn'etely " tion, it bei , g ur out, on motion t The reatlutiot Leave W , B motion of Itl.e for regulating t for providing foi of saving. ba,k to provide I th up homes on the tame noble 1 under the act au pros% ment of lx were bevel Ally h CONDUCT Mr. F. NI AU for by the hon. duct of Major G that the hun. ea correspondence The house ad. poor—works, too, which, be contend ed, would yield a return sufficient to pay the expense of the paupers' support. Surely that would be a wiser course to sdopt than supporting the B as at present, Idleness or unproductive employ ment. But the present plan, besides being unproductive, was absolutely demoralising. It required men to walk eight or ten miles from their pleas of abode to a central depot, there to receive their food , to break stones, which they re garded as a penal l e hour, and to walk home again. Why not employ them in the occupation of spade labour, that which was the most congenial to Irishmen, and which would be attended with no shame to him, and with benefit to the ratepayer , and the country at large ? Sir W, SOMERVILLE said the hon. gentleman had on fairly blamed the commissioners for not doing that which the law did not empower them to do. They were absolutely prohibited from administering relief in the way the hon. gen tleman proposed ; and this was net the opportunity to dis tress the propriety of the law. He did not think that the ex tensive employment of pauper labour in the way proposed would be found to ha productive labour at all. But, be this as it might, the correui senors could not, without more ie lm:mime powers, carry out such a system. The particulae remedy proposed by the hon. gentleman would require very extensive legislation; and he hoped the house would nut consent to entertain the motion now submitted. After a few words in explanation from Mr. SCHOPE, Lord G. SENTENCE referred to a report of he Board of Werke in Ireland, in proof of the difficulty and expense of reclaiming waste lands so as to render them va:uable. lie was fr vs irable to the outlay of money for the improvement ref land already in cultivation and for the reclamation of what was called strong land. In toms way, the report stated, a million and a half of money had been expended, which was expected to yield an average return of 8 per cent., being 'qui , ' dent to a return re 120,0001., fur an annual out lay of atiout 90,0001. The eommis.ioners also stated t' at they anticipated no difficulty in the repayment, by half yearly instalments, of the sums advanced for drainage. Mr. HUME concurred in the principle involved ir the resolutions that had been moved. Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not think it would be safe to adopt the proposition made by the hon. member fur Stroud ,(Mr. P. Serape), inasmuch as it would lead to an expensive and probably most injurious mode of proceed ing. (Hear, hear.) After a few words from Mr. P. SenOPe in explanation, Me. 111110 M: said that it was an extreme ilittisulty to come to any conclusion on the present mate of Ireland whole social state of that country was so disorgenised that it was impossible to suggest asystem by which pauperism might be relieved without the waste of public money and the great demarallation of those emoogst whom the money wee uistributed. He lox ked, therefore, with the greatest possible allowance, both to the propositions of the government and those urged by the hon. member for Stroud, even though those of the latter were not in strict accordance with the right principles of political economy. But as this was, perhaps, the last opportunity which would he afforded during the present session of say ing anything on the subject of Ireland, he (Mr. Bright) was unwilling to permit that opportunity to pass without making a few observations on the subject, particularly as the no` le lod at the head of tho government intended, it was said, to visit that country to collect that information which he did not now possess on that painful and afflicting matter. Poring the last two mum the disturbances had taken place in some parts of England, and d.saffection, he hoped not very wide-spread, bad manifested itself. Take, tor instance, the county at Liecaster, and what did they find ? Why that the result of the state and condi -1 • Lon of Ireland was a large importation of the Irish pope's tion. Liverpool, Manchester, Blackburn, Bolton, and all the ncighbouting towns contained an Irish population so vast that in each the re was an Irish varier. Ut these Irish, though there were many who were honest, induetrimsa and peaceable yet the majority brought with them all the rims which have so long existed in Ireland, and produced au unfavourable effect en the native population of those districts—a popula tion he ventured to describe as the moat industrious and meritorious in the country. He found that both in York. shire and Lancashire crimes of vielenc prevailed to a meet deplorable extent, and that these crimes were committed not by the natives of these counties but by those who had come from Ireland, because there they could not find or procure the means of existence. There was also another point of view which ought not to he lost eight of, and that was the fact that wb ee eeer an Irishman sat ho foot, no matter in what quarter of the world, he took his stand as the bitter and implacable enemy en this country. (Hear, hear.) This was the result of the widespread disaffection which existed in Ireland. At this moment there were hundreds of thou sands of Irishmen in the United: States of America —that was to say, of Irishmen by birth, or persona imam cliately descended from Irish parents ; and by the sysem of government in America these had become f cos lased of • large extent of influence in public attaire—in some of the states affecting the election of members of the American legislature, and heroine a sway in the choice of the first officer of the government ; and hence he submitted that if there should come is time when questions of a critical nature should be discussed between this country and the United Sates, certain Irishmen might throw the weight of their in fluence into the scale against the peace of this country, and that owing to the misdoing, of the government here, or of the people of Ireland to get rid of pauperism end of crime, it might be found that thoumuds of Irish-' men now in America might there exercise greater influence against the empire than they could have brought to bear of living wi bin its limns. Let these points be considered, and the conclusion must be arrived at that either the govern ment or the Irish people were greatly in fault. For himself, lie was ready to admit that both were in fault. lie believed that not only the present hut every other government had been negligent of the true iaterests of Ireland. It was a com mon thing to heat, especially from the treasury bench, that they presentee' difficulties which were almost insurmount able. The right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth, on,oneoccosion, on resigning office, had declared that Ireland was his difficulty. Ills (Mr. Bright's, opini n was, that the difficulty of remedying the condition of Ireland was by no means equal to the difficulty which would have to be en countered if remedies were not devised. (Hear, hear.) He believed that the real difficulty as to the set tlement of the Irish question arose pertly from the mode in which the administration was formed. They were almost an arist mratic government. The aristocracy was supreme on the treasury bench; there were seven members of the cabinet hall of whom were members of the House of Lords, and the remainder were either lords by courtesy or were on the threshold of the peerage by birth. No blame to them, for perhaps 14 better men could not be found to occupy their places ; but he was prepared to maintain that in the present condition of Ireland it was impossible that these 14 gentlemen, occupying seats in the cabinet, could meet with unbiassed minds to discuss the questions of Ireland. Ireland required two remedies—one political, the other social, As to the political remedy, there existed in Ireland a universal total unbelief in the honesty and integrity of the government of this country. What would remove this feel ing but a complete demonstration by:the government to them that they were determined that bygones should be bygones, and that henceforth equelity of government should be the great principle to be adopted. (Hear.) Ireland had been a country of jars and turmoils for a period of time longer then the memory of any man now living extended. Those jars and turmoils had arisen from religious dissensions. They had governed Ireland in • manner totally unknown to England or Scotland ; and he contended that if Ireland was continued to be governed as now—if, as now, the religious establish ment was to be kept up, prelacy ought to be established in Scotland and Roman catholicism in Er gland. (Hear, hear.) But, if neither of these was attempted, it would not be a sham but a real rebellion that would be provoked and ,rought about. They must establish perfect equality in Ire land between the Roman catholic and the protestant, and in justice the establisher:met of that equality ought not to be longer deferred. It was said that the government meant to bring forward (if the people of England could be caught napping) • proposition fur the endowment and payment of the Roman catholic priests. From that propo sition he dissented, and he thought it would be an easier remedy, and more consistent with the true interests of reli gion, to withdraw the present church establishment from Ireland—(hear, hear)—and give a perfect equality in those funds which were not necessary for the wants of the pro testant population, and to separate all connexion between the clutch and state, and appropriate the funds for some grand and general purpose, such as education. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the present representative system of Ireland, he could, after having spent 73 days in a most wearisome investigation of an election proceeding in Ireland, declare that the system of representation in that country was a delusion and fraud. It would be far better that Ireland should have no representatives than that she should be de luded with the idea that her representatives neglected their interests. The numbsr of taxes the payment of which formed the qualification to vote—the system of registration only once in eight years, instead of annually as in this country—were contrivances each as only the greatest foe to liberty could have invented. No system could be concocted that would he more calculated to irritate • people whose liberties it proiessed to concern. (Hear.) Ile came now to the social condition of Ireland, which though political remedies might be as oil on the troubled waters, ought not to he lost sight of. No doubt could be entertained that the social evils of Ireland arose mildly from the mode in which the land was now held, and owned, and cultivated, or rather he should say not cultivated. There were in Ireland vast tracts of land which, if left in the hands of the present pm sneers to the end of the world, would never maintain the population wnich they ought to support. The true solution of this question was to get toese lands out of the hands of the man who was the nominal possessor, but who performed none of the duties of a lana-owner, but who held under mortgage deeds, while the people around were starv ing in a district where God and nature had provided them means of existence. (Hear, hear.) Passing from this he came again to the aristocratic part of the question, which involved the law of entail and the law of primogeniture. In Scotland the law of entail had this year been modified, and in this country itsevils had to some extent been modified by the extraordinary - industry of the people, and by the capital accidentally introduced into large manufacturing under. Likings. But in Ireland there was upheld and maintained a eerie of laws by which it was impossible that the land and the people could be brought together, and industry have its fair held for operation, instead of coming to this house annually to ask alms from the people of England. These lows of entail and primogeniture had proved ruinous every where, but most so in Ireland. In addition to their aboli tion, he would suggest to the government the withdrawal for some years of all the duties on the transfer of property in Ireland, and :the establishment of a special court to adjudicate on all matters of title, and to prepare conveyances in as short a form almost as • certificate of the transfer of railway stock. This would induce English capital to flow into Ireland, and enable the people themselves to work out the exlvation of their country. What wee the obstacle in the way of these changes? Parliament had talked of the evils affecting Ireland session atter session, until men who hadheard of them in their boyhood had become grey headed, mot still Ireland remained a diegcace to the V The malls for talll be mane Up The mails for t Will be made up o The mails for 1 Zealand will be m The molls tor I gp on the evening The West Inn Honduras, New excluding those Charm, Panium Nicaragua, will b The mails for t boon, Bahia, Ma evening of the 4t The overliind c Ywnpt, Aden, C: owning of the 71 The overland e !apt, Aden, ton, will be made NOTII The number Stamp-office, DAILY 1 This, we bel Issued to the Morning Post In addition Morning Pam THE EX Which Irius the Webs or T•to II" To-r ea our