The Express. — London, England, 1847-06-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—TIIIIRSDAY, JUNE 10. The LOAD CuencaLuta took hie seat at 6 o'clock. SIMI° BUSMEN& taste S.— lake of Saulatac, from SYlbw. agalest theesi Act . Led seemaxa, bon •Ow le peke& ihke, to war asst. 'As awl & Ewen, frem Ike a rie kr *amid ef Om lekh Ism. Mi. r!". 11 „g 2.lll "m ees ee, isseausketwatgag Amidellatief Elk Reno Uwe gas Oases oftmen teed DlSsesees. Om illvenmss kr I esenkreef einsillea; atm emend pokier. ee I. chef MN& ria; gni from Limp* ammaitilag ea 11l6.41".Mhhmit ef Eldsoprles; Peeriere Aimed Aft Amendment; Bina SECOND ISEADIPOIL—Lesa Dbovest; ktheeets af Ikaalleelta, theskere mdaraelkieleges; MOs. . ODE EMlNft—llsrvheof Heirs Scotland); Tremerintarel Lei (Seatant); Dorms lbellim (seabed) ; Betitabie emmellal• BM Debt (Scotland)• Oren Owners (Motiand); Bills. THlkO REAbliki.—Bupementatire Peers (ftratlnn”. RETURNS 011DELED.—On the mouse or Earl Frreenur=l l . nun ofthe gems edveseed, by way of Iron oe otherwirc, to Mom the eemenemnemise of the last widen of parliament NEW BISHOPRICS. The Archbiahop of DUBLIN, in presenting a petition for the re-establishment of the bishopric of Kildare, said be had a bill removing the restrictions imposed upon her rillst lt y, by the Church Temporalities Act, and enabling her • to appoint a bishop to one of the sees supp by that measure. The bill was subsequently brought induct read a first time. IRISH PAUPERS. Lord BROUGHAM, in presenting a petition from the maor, imegistrates, and pried* inhabitants of Liverpool, a et thbee=radlatheasecnivir" InteeniOsltrilitttat • the tamest Amer endorsers, and that already there had in the execution of their dudes, tlx Roman Catholic Zsix names, and a number of relieving -officers 64 A0E 11 ENT OF PARLIAMENTARY OFFICES. Lord BROUGHAM mid he had to complain that in cer tain returns just laid on their lordships tattle there were several important :acute, and he complained all the more of this from the fact that these papers laid before their lordships only yesterday were published in a London news paper on Saturday last in a complete state, without any of these !acme. He should on Tuesday submit a proposition on the subject to their lordships. NAVAL OFFICERS. The Earl of HARDWICKE postponed his motion with reference to rewards to naval officers until Monday week. BISHOPRIC OF MANCHESTER BILL The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he should trouble their lordships but a few moment/ in explaining the object of the bill of which he had now to move the second reading. At the time that the question arose in that house, as to the consolidation of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor, there was but one feeling as to the propriety of creating a bishopric of Manchester—a part of England remarkable for its central position, its dense population, and its various social rela tions. Happily the means existed, out of funds hitherto appropriated to episcopal maintenance, for the immediate creation of that see, and this was the chief object of the measure to which he now called their lordships attention. In providing for the creation of the see, it was, however, found necessary to make some provision as to the seats held by bishops in their lordships' house, and this bill would enact that, saving the rights of the two archbishoprics, and the sees of London, Durham, and Winchester, the other bishops would take their seats in that house by seniority. With respect to the circumstances of Manchester, that see would embrace an area of 1,220 square miles, and, at present, a population of 1,123,000 souls. The arrange ment of this see would greatly relieve the labours of the bishop sof Chester, The endowment provided for the sin would be above 3,0001. from the ecclesiastical couunisaionere, the whole of which would be at once avail able, and to add to which there would presently be 1,2001. available from other sources. Ho had only to add that the bill received the concurrence of the heads of the church, and to move that it be read a second time. Lord MONTEAGLE reviewed the arrangement respect ing bishoprics originally mode by the ecclesiastical commis sion, under the unction of the parliament, and expressed his regret that that arrangement had been departed from. In the proposition now before them, all consideration of the interests of the parochial clergy of North Wales was aban doned. He objected elm to the new principle of creating a body of bishops who did not hold seats in parliament. How these novitiates were to pass from their episcopal novitiate into the full completion of their dignity was not to him very clearly or satisfactorily explained. In North Wales, it must be recollected, diesent was making great stride*, and yet has they were about to perpetuate the system under which that diasent had arisen. lie expreseed also his regret that a bill of eo much importance should be introduced at so late a period of the session, and almost, as it were, at the close of a parliament. Lord STANLEY should regret to say anything which would interfere with so important a measure, but thought himself justified, by the position in which he stood with reference to the proposed new see, in addressing to their lordships a few words upon the subject of this measure. He must first my that he regretted the rescinding of the resolu tion sanctioned by parliament, for the union of the soot of Bangor and St. Asaph. He thought great inconvenience would arise therefrom, foe which there would be little com pensation. He saw befogs him the right rev. prelate charged with the ditties of the me of Chester ' and he said in his pre sence that Mee wee ea prelate who had laboured more labo riously or amilmody he prosmatir the interests of his doe ogee, bathe wee ere *at debt is,. - prelate would admit that the 'abounded roan wen far above the powers of any single tor. He limbo saw mai room and future ad van:Su Ike erodes isf the new see whisk would relieve that rev. raekto to seine extent ' ham his labours and ties. At the same time, however, it was right rat be skald stab that ea the principle upon which this bill or Wad ha (Lard Stanley) could not altogether con fer. Theas win ems object connected with it to which he roil Dave spooldb directed their attention, if circumstances War sera whir ossiered it unnecessary to my anything flarther respestang it. Ha alluded to the position of the chap ter of the othembal remit of Manchester, whose anomalous position it bed bar lio duty not very long ago to bring un der the wenishonden of their lordship house. He was lied to eity that gime the debate which had taken places wet theit matter the chapter had consented to glee ala en well as a moral interpretation to the NW. their eartitation which rendered residence ttorillimb ma Hot. they had also offered to bind them. maws to Wee seek meriteal sharp of one of those poor and E&Meta of Mochaster which were immediately te their tedbedraL K.,, he objected to the intro. el the novel principle of lerlishing a bishopric of the (bath of England lido* a meat in their lordships' • boas& He would love bola bolter E i o f, instead of kir a see at deantsier, be 's government M v ia ld thaosd a peon whine, awl w far it was lids whit to estiod eplempl esporeishm. The math mar. trio led rad that the asmandeasos bed sessetamehmi rok under the evargeorato oar orb& "mum Moor devoid ant haw mats in that banes. Is plat of At,, the asmakokows did met ore any resemmeedation of 016 kid LOW Were embed apse to Mato the mode in whisk it mere be WI to serf or a pooseassived plan by whisk be. addition bishapdas wen isle anallitated with out baying legislative seats attached to them. It was im posed is a oration that the commissioners should carry the piss of re government into effect. His precise objection woos het it had not been avowed by the government what farm distribution of biroprice was intended. If the go vernment bad stated dilatory that they proposed to increase the aviator el blimp he We country by four, and that they did mg propose to inereses the number of sees to a grabs extant, he believed there would have been Mlle abjection offered to the proposal to &tech to the fare lsikoprics that which was the acoompani mast sieve sidling bishopric, yin a seat in that house ; but, there t wenty - is Whops in the house already, be leeembt greet would bog excited by the addition of eve ass dem , separately, to that number. If it ware minly Warded to :roam die Maim of bishops by four, the poemallea taken was, he oorhissed, unnecessary - but it won lb Om belief that the spirited meats of the arch of iii required that the lareme, hated of being Hags& to for, should be soh aeons herciartesuaty. The adolmisa of soh a aware Seidl eat, be dmegitt. be era mord la that boos; at WI emir be hit tone nor' tale that the pE ms tadmit theta wend set mat with the nor of Booths then MOS debt aad =us 4 2 .64 sad half die amber mere pima hen that be., the. raid be obviate disatier to mesh aa sneageosaL Is the lint place, the between the earned bishop sod the dared wadi be hesavediatly large ; and in the u nlix, the dodos connected with a seat in re rob ask enehably, devolve on any Whop .natil, la the redo of - Ilhe Thewould be infinitely lees compeer Modkonge the. rose wand Il m hat t the me drier moil be esdaled, the brt adlibtoL Hs rased fry Ma 'sateen whisk wan be draws boom those who bed soh sad them dm in aot. AO he pospertio, however, as spheral art lasi dare were mewelleiolly perfanasi ens = t he lOW taloa ley the how, meal moy Berea, the best sites Ihr the ware it de aural, be led consider en which side the bairn of advantage propoaderated—oo the side of the orsailsa of seats in that house by re right trimeed bear, or on that el the inceered eedd and dingsess with mirk ghoul biros who were senora palmed their ephoopal duties. (Hess, bear.) :peer be be het to the plea be was abed I. spool very rim dower= ww• entertained by many atembora of the Mt . 4 11191111NIA 11111111; bat under the too essedileffmg &S -ea the we bead, of the necessity, for pelsksf . a_bege imam of episcopal superintan== ea ileal perk it was impossible to make a large addi ble& Se the irlfitsal roes ; ria on the other hand, of the imereakmes whir mod res ult from a Urge risparra of e l' billebnarnikets.rasrastrio"tit excluded tomen trfml t e b f a e l lesslln b."l. ef 'on. He propceed a recurrence to that woo wa the of the church in olden time, and wVok a =e of being eanctioned by an NM repealed Iw,—a resumers to that order which in the argil days of the rank woe denetainated surragan Whop. (Hear. IL A rebid that the bishop of therms, dieveldbao the whisk at the time of the reibrmatioa it woelliot be should have, of the co-operation and amistaseeo e ti f m t=a emostest in all respects to perform oder the superintendence, and during raTsen t st, afar tiliseem—ehme function' for which the prearaurber draw wee manifenly and confessed . '" in . ,ior.."-—---- - - - n - - -- 7 0 . opinion that that no miaow- ; moot meld bossa l t i ct i° tlltt it P woold be practicable to I Mai Os ma from among the clergy of the i11emi5......, =Vele vim objections to the exercising of limame by spawn who also filled the capacity of I ~leeiYle salt W m Arja o d . =p a s% I r th probably, person b one sw at ' bad • viably &iambi]. liti who had not that advantage, allosisb, la able faissic better qualified, would be es- '._, • . . ---- • . - ...., . -...-"- eluded. The dates to be rudiment we in elifficleatf laborious to require wed deame geineehe insisminent ;at the same time, there weal bone emmeage lbreivemy law endowment, en account of the rafted ekes** et the sphere cf dada. There was so stem a feeling cm the part of this ellinsiteme of this country u to the prow* ineffi ciency ef_eplapel tmgerintendence, that he believed there was hardly OW REMltist of nemesery pecuniary aid which they would net etedihete. Ho had no wish to offer any emation to the sessod reading of the bill, of which in the lan be approved; but he earnestly entreated her Majesty's poseemenent esealerwbat might hereafter be the possible ;terd Leh of England, and not lead the balm thee the addition of four bishops to the present bench would be sufficient to meet its spiritual exigencies. As they must contemplate at no distant period a large increase in the number of bishops, he thought it would have been better if the governme nt had mule up their miada at once as to the extent of the increase and where they would draw the limit between bishops having and bishops not having seats in that house, The temporary and periodical exclusion of four bishops, in all other respects equal E.) the rest, would only tend to isionsee Use diffitedty of dealing with the question on a mess cede dad files Lard BROUGHAM said be had as wish to ewes the second reading, but he must morn to himself the right of objecting, either in committee or on the report, to the ano- malous exclusion from parliament of a single bishop. The Bishop of SALISBURY said the bill Yin de house had received the assent of nearly the whilebeeilt if bishops. pa He did not deny that th ess :mestlea wee UMW with difficulties ; but as thews* of the noble lord opposite (Lord Stanley) he *add set help saying that he had not expressed the same sentiments when the bill for the consolidation of the sees of Bangor and St. Aleph was under discussion. His (the Bishop of Salisbury's) great objection to the appointment of suffragan bishops was, that such arrangement would not ans wer the purpose for which it was designed. The great defect at present was, that there was too little intercourse, not only between the bishops and the laity, but even between the bohemia and the clergy. So far as he exercised episcopal functions, the suffragan bishop would, as it were, replace the bishop under whom he acted, and diminish his personal contact with those over whom he had spiritual superintendence. He believed that by &muting to this bill the bishops consulted beat for the welfare of the country and of the church. Earl FITZWILLIAM agreed that it would be a great seemaly to have one bishop who was excluded from that boar. He could not understand on what ground it was menneed that six and twenty was the precise number of *friths' peers that ought to set in that house. Considering the increase which had taken place in the temporal peso, it might naturally have been supposed that there would be a corresponding increase in the number of spiritual peers, or, at le e‘t, that such • small increase es tour would not be attended with any inconvenience. He look td upon the measure as imperfect, even as regarded the diocese of Manchester • for there could be no doubt that, looking at its extent, anethe amount of its population, the next bishopric which would require to be divided after the metropolitan diocese was this new one. He quite agreed that • large addition should be made in the episcopal staff; but he was not sure that the principle of suffragan bishops was the mat correct. His own feeling was in favour of the new bishops having seats in parliament. The conse quence of excluding all the junior bishops would be, that the house would be deprived of the aasistance of those who would be most active and earful members of the episcopal bench. (Hear.) If any very large addition in the number were proposed, there might be some objection to giving them all 'sateen parliament ; but when the increase was so small, there was no ground for the exclusion. The Bishop of OXFORD thanked the government for having brought forward this bill, and for having fairly and honestly considered how the admitted went should be sup plied. He, however, entertained great objectioas to some of the details of the measure. He concurred p in the objection of the noble lord (Stanley), that it would pduce a feeling injurious to their usefulness, that eta time when the bishops should be resident in their dioceses they should be taken away to perform other duties. The ground for excluding the new bishops from the house he understood to be the expense entailed on them by their attendance in parliament. But it was not the attendance in parliament, but the main tenance of the intercourse with the clergy of the diocese, which required the Income which parliament had most pro perly set apart for these bishops. Then it was said that the seat in the house gave undue power to the bishops. He. on the contrary, believed that the seat was a drawback on their power for spiritual cobjecta. If they were not liable to be questioned in that house as to the exercise of their power, that power would be more effective and more dangerous, and would become a just object of suspicion to every govern ment. The presence of the bishops in parliament qualified their power and prevented its abuse. He objected, also, to the provision which restricted the increase in the number of bishops to fear. It had been long sdmitted that an increase in the episcopal staff was necessary and everything that limited that extension, and compelle d church to work at • disadvantage in its spiritual objects ought to be avoided. Giving credit to ministers for desiring to make the church efficient, he submitted to them whether it would not be better to leave the general question of extension to be pro vided for apart from the present bill The Bishop of BANGOR approved of the bill, as far as it provided for the wants of the district of Manchester. The Earl of POW IS was understood to express his appro bation of the measure. After a few words from Lord MONTIAOLC, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE felt gratified that no objection had been raised to the principle of the measure, and as to the objections in point of detail, while the noble lord (Stanley) complained that the measure was not suffici ently *apprehensive, the right rev. prelate complained that M went hapead the necessities of the cue. With regard to ffini leen& the number of new bishops , with a v iew to the , hrtber effielency of the episcopal staff and the reform of the chnreh—for this was a reform—it bad been thought right to express in the enactment the positive intention to add three new bishops, besides that of Manchester—not with the in tention, however, of preventing . such further extension as future circumstances might require. The bill was then read a second time. RAILWAY BILLS. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the consideration of the report of the select committee relative to the suspen sion of nilways,and proposed • series of resolutions founded upon it, which. however, were not heard in the gallery. Lord KINNAIRD objected to the resolution which pre vented the payment of interest on calls. Lord REDESDALE said he felt a stringent objection to postponing bills from one session to another, and that objec tion was still stronger when it was notorious that this was the last session of the present parliament ; and the future Ileum of Commons might not feel themselves bound by resolutions passed by the present one. To the remainder of the resolu tions he had no objection. Altar a few words from Lord GRANVILLE, The resolutions were agreed to with some verbal amend ments. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table the Reports of the Factory Inspectors. Their lordships then adjourned at a quarter past 8. HOUSE OP 00141 1 40148.—Tamwet, Jura 10. The Swazi took the chair at 12 o'clock. . MUT" MINIM WOWS.— Oro Er Orr; rotor& Parr% or eTai=ealibille=alerard Oar" barder); Oar 1110111111 Whiff ( brier O brad erlDesreler); iteddereart AM firarberar Binary (de ream sr 1 aren a la Otker limadk ka) t . Iprokit DO• j UPI Or o=firt nii lrriester Ord liarderna Ids; Los tralierge emir Zahrorerr; Dries ply) Irreerrele; Lesion rid Ike* Week= raw (ken rd rein ef Ore Bridged Or rerltreter law nal Orel maths Ladd Derropi mei rearboilar Ilskairgh preeheekr. relkldord . _Ltreslorke Rafter (irks as mom am kw te dr Mierdo rd; yachter Ihrtid, or lasebeldre =.=.7 . .0....Fria1,......,.)..,, . Lavin air tereher ) reserrar, lbelkild sel Ur da rks lisifflrcrit la sailleortri seri beret ) ; Mier ( ar llerrenter direr Wore. is ßaaafil ( im MIR Le -. k ad l a t iv...4 llol6rd ef tWleeder NNW ; _ rid New. here AndlesylOrril rte ,_ MIA Paw ; Mark kedikereh. Omsk arer Operrl ellres=irele. ka) i Omar Meru Pallenr(rairrllsf Mr Orsordeb Belher eri w eed SElepowt et r ai reakedde rider ; Orr ra Ilerertr a t ii.. oser •.., ,, zez: a Orb arms% Ira 1111 =11% Der Ord); swlaa lirreer; Wm Maki or Wreak* Wesradersitarka. sr War DIE' 11111. M. sad Sadao ; W =I ef .Ima 1111111111; itr l k .77=trama Bird terdi) kik eril 100 or hatc- III%; dirriferro, Mirk rid Usedaddre Errey, kr.; Mir aracero; Werra For ridge; Weymouth =arab leolarrbeer ad Brew liver 11111 e. POMO MIMI. PICIITIONIL—ay lb. bra% kap eldorresee d erint Ote Wriest Serer =ala P. lowe i re in = ' rre et Clerldia la ismer d Ihe Mar Ill— airrmer Ire Orralei ef lerwriet rip. Warr pler dla dike isiddeolda of Criareek re elleerdes writ ; ram orelleseof Zimmer. es le Me roared law art rear ; tram krer rear Id: k ma ltetudreo mm t 11=11=ter p oste. — E5,....m.,........i.d,.. writ the renteri if Sorb _ek burr Ism d . re of the Orr of M INI WY relreper, la fore of lert ef Tons SOL— aea llamork frets Porree end weed era= lwer Or arrelael the _ reel le arm fam..-Ni%.43:C=Trtirp."f er : in favor of the Peer Ibrier (lelbed ma SNOW) dim% Om labia, lir eardirlat d seihney anserrodarkle In mire.-*. Omar, Ism Drift el dr meat ef ruches —las& O. Leered firm Illoral Orr Wrderef kid array Oempr fi r Pr ws likparket re= kr rawer la Indand—Mr. A ker asked of lkoreiapten, ardor the MOW ' 10; the Bra T. Mar" ender are Ordsed Iburt Wm ere la Or salon., by the %Kerr at re ambit Id Telmilia. im.n.—Poorangs kkairreira ; life and Wish. 'u aORT. Destitute Parma Misr Ma 2 ). TRIAD READlNOL—Preenred _est daretlatent; deadbeat. Yr Orerreent; Prleorre Mawr (Oder) ; Er hway llace ; Or heir.' Mien and Onurteld.lllle. MUM WIDIUM.--Os dre seeder It Or Ds LAM EVANS, rebuff er bie member et drawl disks ortheell le be iliaasisstured Far Ike Okla are Mr lola °mires woks are the pedal of thie ask karma bees Yodel by orreramerd bribe re d the al. deed ese. 11079311 OP 110TIOIL—lataia lemma—Dr. BOwliVa , to urer Oak dry), to more fir a arravidaa el returns an this =ram Aecerrea—CoL Onterer, so Ike beers Wog Ye ei ebbe ampler, se ea the ererba ef the bore le worker re Tr- Znal=i4t.theadmegasf tr i siz a t .u. sdirelly Idled. AAWAY BILLS. . On the snake of the of the EXCHIQUIII, the adjourned &bats on the resolutions of the Railway Bills Committee was isionisol. On dies der 111111111thili being put, Mist the prsosesen of all railway bills to the present seadon of plailmellit MO %e powered, on Use assand reading, or an the • •••• THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, enseredee strysaberrmilressr illiAswepend say *elders ser rat diallita" of toew re lathe feet or saes silks - wide ~ells a id Para cm 4 6o. piessetere et sedridlis ore sodas tare esor behee the Mit awed are; or drab& Aid is Ilse within in dm etre *pert stir us rhos et balk= to swag say Maw ImesselimP MI the seemistkr et mow sehremed stage et :s er e Is a. The yousetees et ask Ms au Is glee dss by adverthereat br iessearadve tesin Orem andlaweer tar, in the Liadaw, ltikrAwayk, sr , es rerre, es Cr ere amp be, awl In Selma piper or gems verly Is'etirdrise la re part of Om woo" demo wilier Oita mlbes MORA Isi per, et ther Yule& to pirent 'vertu kers ftsistrairs my swab& • err= far Yaw I ldsakawllway 101 beige peessidel mr met ot dr, mad sernsi ft re so mbre( prism he Is amiss whsther Os prides he ths sem sahrsre as myrrh= ler re ears pea _sad ken re ore errs *drug preeresd kremlin 611611; owl r *at ale• whirr say MI brought tin here in powers deer prides I Is re mire et ISO, vas parser OW here et pielleseent ea ▪ mrsdnelbse et se* erase ; sod ft es, erhodisr a gestraet, nevendred by the Ur** ecru Weis la the ni = " rap the rhodium lade bee boa mew el bre, sad is UN at tiered sedi vsherse as do e▪ r st VA pre t e a s ed by saholdldens h /WW I I in re afiener r ze by re stendog eters Is es* oss. ak, seek nodes bad* hem giro se shnrmM_VjiaLdisers;.*:=i gi b let I s h= t iost= en ge=rhe resod wad& the rota. eerie Ur resat le ~qsear area es her te have her semoilleit rib. Thermo e r e `wrrlle Isere rad* et ray Nosh bill wed ths sees et re sensilles limmasals deseteseg ft three MOW al% the user WO! the seeder germ Is the Peters Maddles. di awe sash lO* her Irenuasseei Is thornier et lear, re serrates morl* use le emir wieder the he la away roger reigns sew* twwarlallattlis Ira errs ease d Its meesserg ere leer in de sr- eke et ad, and hum* se imbrues h be riseived cossestere ; oedemas torrlon and asterism by to o by-s sols f • re par him se* rawdres, west the bel rdrod term be r every re amid the seas se sash hems boll st re at Ode et Me prospecting in peas. ' ier the erred lid, sort bill ray heertered to be ea _ shirr eny tardier eressofte ha vesper *Neat Ms. H. =IDE =red the Mowrg saushaus lathe 4, ease ssblii," to bred °et elan ea WM dein eve bees arm* to • eirrittes, but the OM ot .,,.i lwamsasi mlne skillailasse bees spirt ; sod In Use le, atter " ogre re aseetre dko2 sot bre bun ego* Gee Itse er* tin ere, or deer am shell WO her epreLe Col. T. WOOD suggested that words should be ail. making the resolutions imperative on promoters of bills. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER weeded le Mr. H. Hinde's amendment, but thought Co. Wood's 'm ention inconsistent with the spirit of the resolution. Tr resolution as amended was then agreed to. On the second resolution, That the deposits made in relied of all railway billa rm L e lbe ENO& togs au winch shall have been suspended, shall be lb spa depositors ; but that before proceeding in a future sorb^ rapers r the lame amount shall be again duly Mill la, ass is 81811604 * big orders of the House of Commons. Mr. GISBORNE thought that these resolutions were evidence that government was about to abandon the Rail ways Bill. He thought that any regulation or legislation on the subject of railway bills, would be inefficient until the house established a proper judicial tribunal for the trial of their merits. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that government inteaded to proceed with the Railways Bill on Monday next. Mr. E. ELLICE deprecated any general discussion until that bill came before the house. After some further conversation, the resolution win agreed to. On the third resolution — That a dams shall be inserted in every . ailway bill, in the potent and every future gemion of parliament, prohibiting say the payment of interait or dividend in respect of calls (except the interest by way of disemint m subseriptlom preload, agreeably toe VteL c. 16, B. 24) out of the eapluil authorised to be raised in such bill, either by means of mils, or of any power of borrowing contained therein. Mr. B. DENISON proposed an amendment to the effect that this roglution should only affect future bills. He thought o ould he unfair to apply it to bills which had already been introduced into parliament. Mr. RICARDO opposed the amendment. He objected to the practice of paying interest out of capital, which was merely taking mousy out of one pocket to put it into the other. Besidi s, it involved the necessity of making more frequent calls. In the case of the North Staffordshire Rail way, the entire body of shareholders had approved of the discontinuance of the practice. Mr. C. RUSSELL approved of the practice of paying in terest on calls. It was an important consideration with per sons who looked upon railways as a permanent investment for their money. After some Mettler conversation, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it was only two or three years ago that the system of paying interest on calls had been introduced, and the object now was, to revert to the previous, sounder practice, and prevent the application of call inquire p d whethehre on caital to t payment of interest. Mr. C. RUSSELL restriction would apply to railway bills already passed ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—No • it will apply only to bills now before parliament and future Mr. HUME looked upon the payment of interest on cells aa an inducement thrown out to ignorant people to invert their capital in railway 'peculation,. He should support the resolution. Mr. HUDSON said his bon. friend (Mr. C. Russell) had held that the payment of interest on calls had been the means by which many of the large railway undertakings of this country had been carried out. So far as the midland and northern lines were concerned, he could say that that , had not been the case. Parliament did not sancuon the pay , ment of interest on calls until a few years age, when it was thought right to give every encouragement to tilway enter prise. In this he thought parliament had not acted wisely; and he hoped the house would not consent to the amendment. Mr. C. RUSSELL explained that what he had said wee, wi the payment of interest on calls had been the means of yrMrdng a healthy class of investors into railway ups sidadolta Er G. STRICKLAND supported the amendment, though be did not approve of the payment of interest out of capitoL Mr. GROGAN regretted that the step now proposed lied net been taken earlier, and suggested that railway companies which already had their acts, as well as those which were row before parliament, should be prevented from paying interest on calls. Mr. CHAPLIN concurred with the resolutions generally, es a mild and proper corrective of the existing evil ; but wee also of opinion that the restriction with regard to the pay ment of interest should extend to past as well as present reß wayfbills. (Hear, hear.) Lord CLIVE considered it unjust to those proprietors who bed invested their money upon the faith that interest would , be paid on calls for parliament, after having sanctioned that podple, now to turn round upon them to prevent such So fir as the bills of the present session went, the opisafis of such a restriction would be but partial, as many led already passed ; he thought, therefore, it would be balm not to apply it at all. Mr. H. HINDE thought it might be wise to consider whether the Dissolution Act of last session might not be extended to shareholders who had signed contracts on the faith of payment of interest since. Mr. BAILLIE thought it hard on those who had come to parliament at great expense, that the restriction should fa rad to all bills of the present session. Mr. STRUTT would not oppose the amendment if he saw any injustice in the resolution. No body of directors could assure their shareholders that parliament would par the clause, authorising the payment of interest on calls. In many cases that clause had been disallowed by the com mittee, though—and it was to be . regretted—in several it had passed. Mr. R. YORKE objected to the restriction being made retrospective. After a few words from Mr. E. Daemon, the CHANCEL LOR of the EXCILEQCER, and Mr. MMITERMAN, The house divided—For the redistioa 7O For the reesdialost 27-43 The two next martian. were weld to without discus sion • , vise.: 4. That redeem at applisstioa te pullearre by eilsdagodway ceesprdes Orr fir pure le arrest rearhes se erall entertere, er to saullbass towels re more onindloit edfair Iwo a • aissapella senhaet he lberelberthe at week edderrel mey reeekeede rim gums* diell be strais,be -5 the 'WY entbsehei ter re edit* Ilme, and Oroodleddibe and E rem& • dome MA be rierW Ineresy newsy Nil in de prelnat y teberserreat slims sat I = o l ,- torq Imo es** ettheseellei or* dry We been te ore Ardis mum et my idsdeg est ths *Om* liejbk4 UM Omaha 11411111401011 imam ways= sersaawwwwa psellmootikr lair thoomoneitta et widow NSW. Os the Non reesistims, : Writ be sang bai et b i L= eaw swi s sa hm emisl i de= t 4 mat" my Ira" wr =l.l2lll,WaswwweAvaamvalsiws wish pews amelbq le - seransa at the raliway ammishama dui nay fe; oi& op sod optiki, Ikr yonotoft VI *Mr sin • soma opol to swam ems model astlodool to viol thershy. lir. HTNDLET eageneed by regret thee*. esnissibee had not turned their orenties to the p=t roars what were called Itairquallor mg eighth of juggling which rattling it impossible for the boo= capitalist to know Oat Wise about in dealing with railway shares. Lord CLIVE inquired whether, in the case dna sarly• motion bill containing powers to amalgamate billow dent of each other, it would be 'officer that shift *WA have paid up the capital authorised to be raised ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rolibl, that any one company might amalgamate with another, pro vided the capital in both cases was paid up. Mr. H. HINDS mowed an amendment to leave out the words " shall prove to the satisfaction of the railway coin =brooms." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER considered it most desirable that there should be some authority to test the actual payment. This was all the commissioners would have to do in the matter ; they would have no discretion be yond ascertaining whether the conditions imposed by parlia ment were fulfilled. The amendment was negatived. In compliance with a suggestion of Mr. Hurts, the CIIANC2LLOR of the EXCHEIII:SR inserted the word " pros pectively" before the words " paid up ;" and in answer to a question from Lord Cure, the right hon. gent. expressed a hope that the operation of the resolution would be to induce those companies which bad been got up merely for the pur pose of sole, to stop altogether. Mr. E. ELLICE, in reply to inquiries, said that the com mittee were of opinion that three-fou rths of the capital ought to be paid up, but as companies were already em powered to borrow, when one-half their capital was paid up, such a resolution on the part of the committee would only appear to make the rule more stringent, while it would be practically useless. Mr. HUDSON (in reply to Mr. HATTER), said that the one-half capital required to be paid up by this resolution was share capital, and had nothing to do with borrowed capital. After some conversation on the subject, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the addition of the words "by means of shares," making the resolution run thus One half of the capital authorised to be raised by means of shares;' and the resolution so amended we agreed to, as were also the remainder, the , worth in pareatheer isPrieg Um WA es_ the tore light hon. gentiellelh I. /het li trete reedere n• lOWA lipllTCh." lee* be" sr rirdembeth tieM en rbri In by set br the eterroe den eta relbrey. L /WY Arm eribleetbrdiellei se yours otgrehrn era, rer, ce ser*Pmeaks. din* Stern say now eemyeer et sergenint,ndertyreebes le Ibir euddeallepawai=lbrein bir Ina game" dry red hew read. le Oa et the se smoirimem ire say Mee vegerdvely up owl Iter Wpm, ealberbil by Itedy rt. • pan rtel be the liallerrl rho NMI I n dr rem it IR re relbegr shell In the wee* er Mo te ea rn et verlbmet be ret..= Mr dr aueerlis et dr en amel as (er bre by re lamer es/rea= lt urght bre I* adillibeel esybde ells nay err eit detilerl le erseyenb en* foreeentimieempley drit sa ires en= art egret dr MAI 1111100111 ibli. a mat ia or tab ri print or 1/N MIN Ma= d kr the areldemettee et TAW imedomieh the reenn i a . p , rental ley orb rielonnedld nes In were Gored Or am lbe mirk , ei the erryenbt el erslirtneeleL It. Veit la Mb In the tom* ea ay Yarn mien et pedler t. ery selltry mem le Fodor to i giber = b allf a lo asfardsoa le be nab ft Or empital a tbt=a& h e serpry braid the snort et Or rebel d the riling pre. are& ; ant ht mem erlt rather dim% redreeit at • oranter, Meld WAWA IS error et with psi Hartle to the nod= of the — isiekinaelmislerr. - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved That the resolutions be referred to the committee on stand ing orders in order that they might put such of them as were connected with the standing orders into a technical form.—Agreed to. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Lord 61. HILL, a new writ was issued for Derby, in the th eca of Lord Duncannon, called to the upper law (by mise of the late earl) as the Bari el BestsaMMlAL The awns then, at half-put 2, adjourned till 5 o'clock. The beam resumed at five o'clock. HOLYHEAD HARBOUR BILL. Ur. WILL D IAMS moved—" That Capt. Berkeley, Mr. 0. Gore, Mr. uncombe, Capt. Jones, Mr. Banks., and Vineant Clive, be added to the salad committee as the =Harbour Bill." The hon. member bred his . 11 the allegation that the Ave gentlemen appoisd t#e set fairly selected, two of Sum being anterened puttee. lie gaoled at considerable length from the estimates of rival eaginram, and hence argued the morality of a fair and seareliAg inquiry. Mr. WARD opposed the motion, as a proceeding wholly uncalled for. The committee had been selected in the usual way ; and the present motion, if carried, would cast a reflection upon them. After a few words from Capt. Harris, Mr. Hume, and Mr. E. B. Roche, the motion was withdrawn. NEW WRIT. Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN gave notice, that on Monday next, he should move for a new writ for the county of Cork, in the room of Daniel O'Connell, Esq., deceased. B In rep li to Sir DE LACY Evans, Lord ORPETH stated that the necesury instructions had been given for the construction of a stone footway along Birdcage walk. ASSIZE OF BREAD. Sir DE L. EVANS said, it appeared by the public prints that the hon. gentleman the member for Dors etshire (Mr. 0. flukes) had put a question, on Tuesday, to the First Lord of the Treasury, as to the sale and weight of bread, and accompanied it by an intimation that the price of bread hed not kept pace with the fluctuations of the corn market. Feeling that the boo. gentleman motet to infer that the bakers—(Cries of " Order.") The Seesaws having intimated that the bon. and gallant gentleman was out of order, he resumed his seat. PORTUGAL. Mr. B. OSBORNE wished to know from the noble lord the First Minister of the Crown. in the absence of the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affair., whether any de spatches had been received since the publication of the blue book, intimating that the Conde das Antes and 2,000 men bad been taken prisoner by the British fleet ? Lord J. RUSSELL mid that no such information had been received by the governmeat, but there had been a tele graphic despatch in the Moniteur, which probably the hon. gentleman had been ? Mr. BORTHWICK wished to know whether the hon. member for Montrose intended to proceed with his motion to morrow ? Mr. HUME did not intend to depart from the notice be had given, and which would have precedence to-morrow (this day). Mr. G. BANKES said that in the papers which had been published respecting Portugal, the last letter of Sir Hamilton Seymour was dated on the 21st of May, and it was said to have been received on the 30th of that month. The last letter of Lord Palmerston's was dated the lot of Jane, and which, it appeared, was an answer to a letter written by Sir H. Seymour on the 17th of May ; now, he wished to know if there had been any reply to the letter of the 21st of May, and if so, whether it was to be printed ? Lord J. RUSSELL said without looking to the papers he could not say, and he would, therefore, answer the question to morrow. Lord 0. BENTINCK begged to ask the noble lord whether the instructions of the government had been of such a character as to render it possible that our naval forces could have acted sgainst the troops of the Junta in the man ner described—namely, to take them prisoner? Lord J. RUSSELL could not vouch for the truth of the statement, but it was possible in this way : Sir H. Seymour bed dashed Sir W. Parker to send vessels to the month of the Daum to prevent vessels from leaving the Douro for ether peels of the coast with armed troops ; and if the Conde Des Antes had embarked with 2,000 armed men on board the steam and other vessels at the disposal of the junta, belie the instructions were sent from London, it was pos- Oki that they , might have been taken prisoners of war by her Majorty'sforoeis. Mr. HUME wished to know whether the papers which had been 'printed were all the instructions sent by the British government, or whether they ware only selections ? Lord J. RUSSELL said they contained all the diplomatic dance ; but he could not say that they contained the orders given by the Admiralty. The noble lord sub- MOM* seated, in reply to the question of the hon. men ial* Dineetahlre (Mr. G. Bank*, that no despatch had been sent eat in answer to the letter received from Sir H, Seymour on the 30th May, inasmuch as no mail had left in the interval: but he might say that the government ap proved of the step which hsd been taken by Sir H. Seymour. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT IN IRELAND. Mr. M. MILERS said that upwards of 160 persons were now in prison in Ireland for sums above 21. and under 51., and 146 persons for sums above 51. and under 101. ; and be wished to know from the Solicitor-General for Ireland whether any measure was to be introduced on the subject of imprisonment in that country for such small ssum? Mr. MONAHAN said the matter was new ander the consideration of the Lord Chancellor, and he (Mr. MOM hen) hoped shortly to be able to lay a bill Wore the bowie on the subject. EXECUTION OF A CRIMINAL AT BERBICE. Mr. G. BERKELEY had some time since tolled the at. tention of the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Hawes) to the execution of a criminal at Berbice, and stated soma circum stances in connection with it, which the hem gentleman had mid he would inquire into. It appeared that the aallatta nate man had been attended b the chaplains ollb• gaol, sad subsequently by a Roman Catholic priest, is esumpame whose religions advice he wished, at the eleventh beer, to receive the ordinance of baptism, but the request was relin ed. He now wished to know if the bon. gentleman could give him any further information on the subject ? Mr. HAWES said it was true that, on the 3rd of Be. comber last, a poor criminal was executed at Serbia who had expressed a wish to be baptised. Both the chaplains concurred in stating that, if the application had been made at an earlier period, there would have been no objection loth* admission of the Roman catholic clergyman; but being made only a quarter of an hour helm the prisoner was to be exe cuted, they felt themselves called on to moist what they conceived to be an interference with their proper functions. POOR-LAWS ADMINISTRATION BILL. Oa the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the order of the day for the committal of this bi'l was postponed till Meader. THE BAKERS AND THE PRICE OF BREAD. Sir DE L. !VANS said that the he.. membee hr Der setaltire. in Milan a question to the noble Iced at the bead of the gers as to whether he was topes any miermee Iloammils the ter al breed, sai lm r d ssrinre the =mei* Wig glens. seemed le at usisemeei imps. es • Met ssepoilehb bolt al soh atimay, the beim of Wsieffhwhar. The ben. mid led that r the Ohm id hind bed a* r les by the 111 el when {_bed be am Yokseled be my it was not peedhie shed% as Soar iies• varied wary day, wherein t ir b. t in= b.. vet zratis a to lionr on head, (eft wikest emilmit hal baba et the *lel ant maybe with the phi id It bad varied , in es . way he the phi ell wheat Y August hat bag fit. sad Uzi irk of lien tlga, the piked the 41b. y a gig time Imo ; whims sow, the pries et wheat ess wise of the alb. lara4 of the best Saar was oat genlid., which It mold to be, if the pries of VlMye an te s it awry varieties the price d wheat. VO la lieeetti batemees; the behave et the meleepelbeteee te.d eed wiliest any profit. The hem. elm said it would be de that brown =7 lll. llera be al& of viltite, by mixing the infe. ✓ aj* • trepederosality et law. But however well eaggesdon wee he did not think it well *yak InteM• ens Mit would be to lower the • of the eat Nlmmes the pd.' of the Wreimr pe quality, glikg as di the power el buying deeper breed at the engage at Ole er. (Beer, hear) K T . imid, that the garden hued bad rehears lea petition tile was entreobsd hba presdillisa by • men andinat awl besevobat meghtrtats d Deeestabire, who allied Ws baled that the poor were mange* In !upset hi the mad. etinowl; end that as the law mead at prang lbws ems im adeemie rem* ix checking an 'bees el that Via regr is ite pin et breed mnying with re= wheat, be ts Worm the ben. and gallant member that the prise et in Paris was Anew than in Loan, at a time when thof wheat denier there thee It was here. (Hear.) H eed aho to abeam that the anshetilans in the pries of wheat, and the gambling spetrair dome Is the corn market in the first year of the new free. Wall pea" held out but little encouragement to Clem le primers in that experiment. He thought it would be an pellent to give a more summary power with regard to the weight ef Ineed.bat he did not refer especially to the eons& testate etilbelna, end gallant member. Mr. G. HEATHCOTE said that he had official returns than in Paris, at a time when the price of wheat in the latter thwweru i P t ha w e hi ghe rwas 'l . 2 1 1 ° - w s li a : sth w a. :t inel4thw, at Lo el'l° . tie c. : . n esu bo op freadO e b l n y ti resdtb B m w 2 :e al ,. 6in th riL i erfdlutonl of b la;what hh ighe r February n P h e in r (Hear. hear.) The London baker had, besides, advantages over the Puts baker In the better and cheaper navigation which the Thames afforded over the Seine, and also in the command of cheaper fuel. lie should like to know what was the cause of the dif ferent prices of bread in the various localities of the metro polis. 'There was, some time ago, a difference of 4d. in the 41b.100f awarding to the locality, which could not occur un• lan In one place they sold bread much too dear, or in another sold a very inferior quality. It had been said that competi tion would remedy these things, but he was afraid that coutbination amongst some of the tradesmen of the metro polis was muck stronger than the principle of competition. Mr. B. ESCOTT said that any order fur making sroond bread would bo a most mischievous thing, as it would be the most estravagant way in which wheat could be used. Biz quarrel with the bakers was that good coarse bread was not made in London—et least it wee not made in Westmin•ter. It would be a great benefit to consumers in general, if bakers could be induced to make such bread. Atter• few words from Sir lla LACY EvaNs, the subject dr:We P a: RISONS BILL.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr. NEWDEOATE said that the sad state of things in Van Diemen's Land and Norfolk Island, was owing to the overcrowding of these places with convicts, with out taking any steps . to procure them employment. The blame of this rested with the ministers, who, is 1839, pre cluded the possibility of giving criminals employment. He believed that the step which had been taken in 1839, was with a view to the abolition of transportation. This he believed would prove a great misfortune to the country. And for what were they called on to abandon it? To adopt a mixture of two systems, both of which bad failed in the countries in which they , were tried. He was prepared to show that the system of solitary confinement had failed in America, and that the system of lei &woos had failed in France. He contended that the probation system hadnot • fair trial, and Wel surprised that the system of transportation was to be abandoned against the unanimous opinion of the judges. Ms Gould not agree with the hon. member for Dumfries that dm judges of the land brought microscopic minds to bear *ea the question. What was the opinion of the judges ? Lard Denman thought it would be most inexpedient to abolish transportation as a punishment ; and said ]tea d not think that any system of imprisonment would form effi cient substitute. Justices Wightman and Erie were of a similar opinion. In Scotland the Lerd Justice General and Lord Justice Clerk had testified strongly in favour of the sa lutary effects of transportation in deterring others from the commission of crime. The Irish judges declared that neat to death, the punishment of transportation had the greatest terror for the people. Chief Justice Blackburn con cluded a strong opinion by stating that in his judgment no efficient substitute could he found. Justice Pennefather said he considered the continuance of transportation as a puoishmeut essential tlrelandreserva- His tion of life and protection to property in. lordship had no faith in the efficacy of solitary confine ment, and the working of prisoners in public gangs he considered inimical to the institutions and feelings of the people of this country. Al to solitary confinement, he (Mr. Newdegate) believed that it would prove a failure here, as it had proved ia the United States. It had already been tried in this country under the most favourable auspices, and what had been the result? From Millbank, since the establish went of the solitary system, 40 lunatics had been sent is Bedlam: while, during the preceding ten years, only 14 had been scat. Solitary confinement was a punishment against which the stroagest intellect could only bear up he • certain time ; it was one of which no one meld col onists the result, and therefore it was one which no case anent would be justified in establishing. With alga te the silent system, the case was differeot. Thilt".. :Le askie xperionoll . fii "." yeer ilualles e ei r an ii.d ie ls"L t bs :sab w Laskidect:andthw ho stile thlr e f t ti on e p : i h i re n e S tl e e :d h m e a r c . T , four H i t. (Mr. Now s tl ) thought it far preferable to, the system of solitary seainatalS. The hen. member proceeded to quote at some Vega leihneads in favour of the silent and the selary gets., s the latter was carried on at vine. Agar the net be meutioned the testimony stspemea SPAM' Zarieen, *reformed convict,who said that dr pear oar at Pentonville turned out the worst coa , NW Beath Wales. The same authority said that I the greeter obits Pentonville proved themselves the most vicious I. the edema, and the Comptroller-General and Sir B. Wilma enemsed in this opinion. The latter gentleman, in slating to these convicts who had suffered uc der the solitary system in this country, said that they appeared invariably oppressed in spirit. Looking to this evidence, then, knowing as be did from personal observation that the separate system had failed in America, seeing that the silent system had succeeded in this country, that out of thirty-one judges twenty-three were unable to give an opinion, and that those who did offer opinions on the sub ject were divided, he trusted the government would pause I before it adopted the plan propounded by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, imposing as it would the solitary system upon the great mass of offenders in this country. If they did adopt it, they would be acting in igno rance of man's nature, and against the authority of him who created mac, and who had declared " That it is not good that man should be alone." (Hear.) Mr. MILNES said that his honourable friend's re• marks went enthely upon the ground that the govern. ment plan abashed transportation, whereas the practical bearing sites glen would be a modification of it, which the &item @ethos rasa in Norfolk Island Polly justified, arising as thee idiom lid, not from the conduct of those concerned iit into operation, but from the fact that it was into manage a penal colony at such a distance es to ts=telnor ek lio i s i tiol and superintendence of the y accepted the plan as an experi ' mat ado peat the executive, and in the fact of its being en salamis., he had the excuse of the government for net it a matter of more formal leeislauon. Respect =l,system, he was capable of adducing as much to its favour as his hon. friend bad quoted against it. The report of 1846, for instance, of the select committee dine legi slation of New South Wales, contained testimony ua y in its favour—observing that the exiles were a great and valuable additiOn to the colony, and that they were • hardy and most useful class of men. Both silent and solitary systems we yet in their infancy, and both, he ad mitted, required eansiderable modification ; but he could net sanesr in the sweeping condemnation of the latter ' by his bon. triad alba Mat add:eared the honee. Me. W. KILNS thseght that, before adopting the change ors et lampaidla which it was proposed by of to effect, doe consideration ought to beWe; IC= in whisk the existing system had hoen mad into Ma in the penal colonies. Without earoebing tame to thepesent er soy other government, he beaus the eviie se alma to 'amenity which had been abases to exist iss Naha NMI were attributable to the bet alto/Woes in the ale of the trauma a the emits sent out there, end to the want it ea albilat superintendence ; and it ins est, thew ha he eastaded, that become ma system was bia epseedsa hem ends ea t est elespase to be weaki Mt idol the adepte a t a l te passed pa. It bed been said that the Mess were is bar ef as plan. This he dried, and refined to the friars even by Mr. Hem Perks, Mr. Jean Patera Yr. Beemaslidesess, end iltr. Boron Rolfe, in maw ado prams pet to them by the Mae of Leak Theme Iseroodjudges dared data ask egiam h weld he isespelkwe to abolish taripersam, aids bold to be the most effectual to roper mime of taps lawn te the law, and err whisk led a ast cab the criminah, bet waste the alias la the courts of jean. Preen his own azgamos as a chairman of quarter esselem, be Imibb ate the same as the result of all he had as k t e may el Benserset, where wire had peak amalasdelesithe had resolved to pass Melt Milleerr ie =hriffeern:Z i r S ere a seoond time emeterd. laa that this measure had not hems morsidesell by the government. It was anslesimo sahl tt lapse the judges and those who had to pro arm jedgmas, to pass • sentence which they knew I wed& 111111. posedially be carried into effect. At nee theet zmu ct as address a Lat. Tracy, the et er rasa ; iYf Ospe, the Gonna elllaw gate ; eed a Ilia 0=11:::overnor et 0011hoth le ffeiseso Me sonfols, dada lempetran, enff was whole dart d* ma ekaa d aw ss pa dap ef the law. On ihe besiteeded to these one HMI bee. friend divided the Mess aria the reeding of dap bills he should give him he media s cows H. INOLIS said that while he gave the govern ment every credit for good intentions, he could not but sa -1 pieta of the peat loseovesiewee of discussing so large • geishas as that of Is.. is on the motion far the aseal makes its MR whisk bad really nothing to do with it E. however, eldedwil to the proposed pa wads was zrekhe delibesete opiates of all the jape a est irehel, vats the exception of Mr!Vit Pala, vibe lay pee • pada assent. He doubted who ' tine the gemenment ha the semparrent opinion at the odeedelpestaree eap mare them they bad those at tho V oisheuesissimise s anert iewes.a. smibes el er th ip e tammeLlime %lia z t grogesethe tem i fl icateeik s o leme. f d th aisoni exie ty l the e k ("avowal& of tesommtatia bem eassi bmw the arls disothia lta: sadietbs te pesesi srion try of and tasmortauei thea the might lave boss thessegbly Ile fair a as it bed hitherto existed ; Ira thought it better than no tempertation at all. He bpi reently are ha • gentleman who lud bread 10,00 01 . in amen's Lead, and whe had t hat p ro. an =ll67 := Silleillgathe: usair in eialbietid "lMea"" the ilimislAt.dthal airatammam ilidirlsaleta""bi la l l amtegilanYa .... lru"sid a l : lll.l" h i: lll : 4"l" whil7ea ge :: " T taSawkate" : " o p t v rev ;: lii s i d ithileat°f •xis g ta th.lllll.l7"..) du i" e°fasamittal o G wbt>i this asbassf. l7 6 ::% . b:misere: sald he also a u lso kbuten fo th lL ere th io a wni t wee. tb =l. 7 : wbMk qM 2 l: Theass wchll f ti lle hayea :llll: of oihamiwidi appetuni sot. le ii:s ty istage w agm as tshisge aff r o pol :d int :a :ac t: al art . mho): first their ea the policy of the system about le b• tiodulld• not premed t o Tot . ohs P.Werc a tlVAS Ela n nU i la f e l= l4-gan i s Z nagmlimillatin it T . "a ha i tbi th t thtla w t 7 ls a inth r e i t al i r il in w tZ ethr, o ch f ians d o g f o d o uF b . tf n. ul tence4. .po ' nt b ng i i t rvaria ded rly i foll utrpd ow uce eit/er separate yina co t t an fin " eme rta nt ti o o r n h sh ar o d ul lebeer a not pol poiai renatioal. b a le be ob blinl jeCti , : bioien li e t r iatalye • ted dreeramew to It. Ti poesi nnoth b it l duen opiniont?Yhjef' t he I mr toetrana gra ves tf p u t r os Y lili for ty h o e f C it e incoPulavt.dicts,beriingththrel2" trebull,"*"°%shaw th a "6" of hard labour, upon society in Irshad. davely,thes, it was much more objectionable that these convietr, guilty, perhaps, of crimes the most dangerous to life and property, should be throw, upon society in this country. (Hear, hear.) As the law now stood, he did no: think it was possible for the crown to bring here Irish convicts sen tenced to transportation, instead of transporting them. A s to the Prisons Bill, he had serious objections to many of its provisions. A board was to be appointed, to be called " Th e Commissioners of National Prisons." " National prisons" ' was a designation new to the law; and he bed serious doubts as to the working of such a commission, however eu 7 it might be to maintein hsrmony in a board composed of seven or eleven members. In the cue of the prelaw cern. minion, it had been found by experience, end was now admitted by legislation, that direct responsibility to that house was of immense value; and hence the recent alters. dons which bad been proposed in the constitution of that oommilsion. But, in reference to the management of guy, the house had, at present, the immediate, direct, and ex ,: divided responsibility el the Seixetary of State for the Home Department with respect to all gaols except Permeate prison. Sir G. GREY—And Millbank. Sir J. GRAHAM said that Millbenk was scarcely s exception, for there the Secretary of State had the power of framing the rules. Sir G. GREY and the inspectors there bad the same power es the visiting justices in the cue of any county god, Sir J. GRAHAM said, that in the case of couuty nab there was • power, annually reverting to the Secretary ce State, of making new rules. He could not see why tei e course should be departed from with respect to these rational prisons. Sir G. GREY—It it not, in the slight at degree. Sir J. GRAHAM said there was this difference : the commissioners were to frame the rules in the tint pre, and a veto only was reserved to the Secretary of State. But upon another point there could be no mistake; t e,, patronage, the appointment of governors, chaplains, and all the important officers, war at present placed endive!. d in the hands (subject to responsibility) of the Secretary of State. This bill sought to transfer it to tie commissioners, with respect to all prisons under their am trol. There were other minor objections, but these wereee a character which well deserved the attention of the home, committee. He was not prepared to vote against the bill's going into committee. Though the questions to si hich he had adverted were the only ones brought directly under their consideration, yet, other questions, greater and mo re s ee portant, had been rained in the course of the discussion, P 3 which he could not omit to advert. At the time of his leaving office last year, the state of our penal colonies was so unsatisfactory, so utterly indefensible as a plus ea which persons even of bail character might be seat without the certainty of a deeper taint, that h e had thought the time had arrived when it was indispensably necessary to suspend transportstion to the extent to which it had been carried for the lasts yes (Hear.) a The great evils which had arisen in Van Diaries were ascribable in no inconsiderable degree to a pledge, given somewhat hastily, if not imprudently, by he predecessors in office, to the colonists of New South Wry.- that, after a time, no convicts should be sent to that imams' tract of country. The consequence was, the whole messier transportation flowed, undivided, to Van llierren's Lsarl; hence the accumulation of convicts there, and hence the eral so frequently adverted to. (Hear.) On leaving elm, be had stated to the right hon. gentleman who succeeded his, his view as to the suspension of transportation. To seek suspension for a year or two, till a better system of seeonday punishments oould be devised, he had no objectioa: he willingly assented to it. But that was not the guinea* were now considering; for the right hon. baronet the l► cretary of State had declared that " it was not nursery only to drop the system for two years, but that it me necessary it should never be rammed." (Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY—That is, the present system of tem portation. Sir J. GRAHAM—And upon this question it was rat important to have the sense of the house. (Hear.) la the house inquire what was the state of the administrant!' of the criminal law at this moment, on the due and suer& administration of which the safety of life and depended ? It had been the policy of modern ti he highly approved of it—to temper the rigour of roe U& mina] law, to administer justice with greater unrey, ands mitigate the sanguinary character by which our lair hid been unnecessarily disgraced. And now, with the exception of the crimes of murder, and violence directed against 111, capital punishment was no longer resorted to. But eM respect to those crimes of the deepest dye to which her Wore capital punishment had been affixed, it must be 61. mitted that the remission of that punishment had been eon. comitant with a rapid and alarming increase of gems crimes. (Hear, hear.) He would illustrate this in, by the instance of three crimes, the statements win reference to which had been prepared by a standar& in the Home-office—Mr. Gregory (as we underossi)— whose merits, he doubted not, the right hon. ratters op posite had ascertained, as he (Sir J. Graham) had does. h 1829, the capital punishment was remitted with respect, forgery. In 1836, the commitments for forgery were Ill; in OM. 514; in 1546, 706—the number having more data doubled in ten years. (Hear.) The crime of arson used to be punished capitally in 1837. The commitments in 1136 were 366 ; in 1846, 581 ; being an increase of about 60 pa cent. But the most remarkable of all was the atrocious crime of rape, which ceased to be capital in 1841. Tks re mitmenta in that year were 319 ; in 1846, 597 ' • being as increase of 90 per cent. (Hear.) Capital puaishassatie meet cases was remitted ; the punishment nut is severity, transportation for life, was now to cease—at ell events, in the rigorous sense in which the term had beet viewed by judges and convicts. Hitherto, the punish next in severity had been the hulks ; but that purred had been unequivocally condemned by the house, sad it had been proposed that it should no longer be roned Then, if the hulks were condemned, if transportable creed, and capital punishment was generally . remitted, what would remain but imprisonment, either in sobtery confinement, or otherwise? As far as his experience wed, he was inclined to advocate separate confinement; been system required great caution in its application; emir inspection was needed ,• and the effect Ma a the mind and the body, required to be erthill watched. Tee last resort would be, for the parilhlr of the gravest offences, long terms of imprisonment; and li this were attempted in this country, public opinion wail le revolted, and the pressure on the executive for thee:Merl of punishments would be excessive—almost inertia*. (Hear, hear.) Great care should be taken, lest in NMI* pathy for criminals, we so mitigated our penal cads, eerie badly broke down all sense of punishment, rem al is gravest offences, that crimes should be committed k Mi. titudes—criminals suffering nothing, but honest msa Id% exposed to the greatest danger. (Hear.) Was it right= that a change like this should be anted except by There was another point on which be should not dila* sehi had been anticipated by sevenlmesehees—the oplaiseeef he judges with reference to these elmesekes tor err had had the opportunity of veinlf. o al al the government. ss Tile opinion dined Deonualted tem tea d es apbtion conveying the judgment of the the abolition of the punishment of slam ile a ssid the said misainol judge of a the frri.ses e thelded bilk* lb*, • PPM ef the woe erpodeeee, et the s AIWA eelkeeity I Hedlddlite' eland •that the at lempedithe te*Ple rabid& in its tidier.* plaid Ile apes ths law bulk si euelieltesa mereisollie to all eleideet tea= thee the ell their UM, ; estthe Glatleiries of ladold* a f i Lle °Piaea rk o . i. the Assisag ellia4 r.simam lar lailmi spimat eme ldli tillwila was ilmi tii rk at ialimis ilill is alirlhs It term doperftWa for the Um trans‘iertatint l VC d fords thine was no diihensee. s ir the* tickets et donee there swabs kept up convict 'ari l _ estellbisibialei arida adalise, the whole men et neer wry; the teen dely ma eleilited. The right bee. rot man omit edi that the Oats of the new cuticle m" am be woes Oda the point, et the old ; but there wet no ill ollitollita W the apaahetteature . of thea* Tr: malt dr Se psementat all evectsompose_f The perabibsient by solitary coonstio." 71 at this thl*, le. There was so rem dr the solitary }deck bear.) There were e eat WIWI cells enough le Ow* lisor, ln the year 1846 Men lir 3,919 convicts hider sentence of t ran sported* h years and upwind'. Where were se to odic te for anything like this another? Hear.) Taat ... ... a . cells al& in time be fo 'nit lb' ,*y was immsdiate r arlibty He ' maid admit that the refertaados if elk* * ila reenter et great lumbago. bat he did net toi l L is Draw d primary fisfadassa. (1i5ar ......6. .) The 7 . 7 .- , wen to data aims tap dr /nee ef bowl' the gaud* et breed labs; but got bli o lo thaw the hear **this plea ves by to east re me! ti 2 2, it had bees Idea mei Iled idel r lot= in ( neither deeenlyt ten edam NI i'.7l; tees, siding in a H pansa llissi witlour !tier ° " th.."----'ll.lll tide had been tried on a large eels t , is the prima at Perth ; and what tad *2_, de hell* Clerk as to the result ? With_ __..'"' iho =kir having bees Wei arta pidemon.,„ l "` 7.,;.. ereebe. bed ail* kW t 1104 "' t e r T i s ad imediendy epee *dr raiere lai retweed le_ .. .. e i e tenon ;that the plan had in no .erey el dorm mr" — fn deter Awe crime. (Hear, hear.) i= l, l per/dr report of the apetraittee ea whisk aet in 1832, dist Wis apthea of selibey iari ss rot !lab' in the permden * sal in company with Weis wad" had lee gird at the Penitentimy, _ Nei lad gall e r so m l , a If there must be forced labour end at should wish to begin with the heel . = la ist 1 the separate system ; and he thee.* ea the V._ s io the latter punishment weld be ,deep lad forced labour. Casaidedail the sailiateaf ef leaf .... g country, a person who het heal yeekidd ae eletrit ;To find it difficult afterwards* abide es hem* del Adi s the right hon. gentleman the fleseary sf WO . 27 ,.,,, one of his letters to entertain thet 0r1di0.... 4 ;t53 letter he also stated that there was a in* of coavict labour is Vas Dillaelei Land; whibt it 0 , from a communication which he (Sir J. ff_raM ili g, calved, dated Hobe* liern, Jan. 28 , in d i ' rth7lisiti that the very reverse wet the case , and hest. of hasty legislation for • place at IS • dim* (Pr e The letter stated that spends of 6,01 S *a bed_r o m ? to Post Philip, and mh o = Aar ad °',.. 00 a men sesaired his away •• • g (Hear; hear.) The real lashes =vs' nape 1 lallak NO amended tbst tbe selbseattol,:b.Ta . =with areas tsar te e ll e s. T at panishment that amid be r 0 Me mid * P. ; was, where should it be 'Ribald ? — O O colonies, and, under proper replations, there wt. , i . i that might not be effected here which could not M i ";; - • 1 p dished there. (Hear, hear.) The 1 5 4 ;1.700 , had le ft another portion of his plan Ti in a ve r y w