The Express. — London, England, 1847-05-01 00:00:00

... statement of the mumparty was this: the whole lino vainest 200 miles keg; about MI miles, eiteseing as far as Carioca, wary weedy opened ; sod the trade urn that poetise was 113 that, aliesr amities the ordiaary me essitens tar the monies of the Rae, it nail ny a manila soft se Intermit to And amnia eisearity flm the whole of the obeesses whisk* — wisaff as' reesiii gm*. Then cola be assault ISMY eseseoesese et* Wolli rate of biome is the army vairket, des seamaay wend not within' avistanu be able to carry on the works in the cosine of this you. The resat would be, that they woold he elaiini te discharge a eimiderable number of pee wee when*" hal employed throughout the winter, not as they stated, awl be bed no sink truly, with a view to the'? own intend manly. butte order to afford employment in the disguised Minn awes l Sallow and in the county of Cork. The sempsny had gelled up every farthing re qu' red by the act, awl many parties had paid their cats in advance. They alb god that they would be able to complete 110 miles by the summer, to open the line fr Dahlia to Limerick early in the autumn, and to co.nplete the commeaication to both early in the year 1849: Toe whole sum advanced by the government, and emcee ready by the company, would be employed in the actual construction of the earth-work and brick-work of the line. Teas company having already paid for the engines, cerriagoi, and rails, not only the 500,0001. to be advanced by the govern ment, but the same sum to be advanced by the company would be applied to the employment of labour. It was stipu lated that for every 1000091. advanced by the government, the company were to ley down another 100,01)(11., and no sc,:ood adman eras to be mode by the government, until it was proved that the 200,0001. advanced conjointly had been actu ally expended on the line. (Hear.) Under these circumstances the government thought it would not be disadvantageous to make the advance ; and he could not help saying that while in the sees stated there war good security for the whole sam being repaid, in that of relief works the repayment was only to .:tied to one-halt With regard to the other railways, ha lad blare mentioned that the public works loan commis sioivrs hod agreed to make advances. In one case, th it of the Waterford and Kilkenny Railway, the amount was (as esti understood) 84,0001., and in another, that of the Dublin and Drogheda Railway, 36,0001. He would now state, the purport of the second resolution. Late iu the lest session, a vote of the house was taken for allowing the sum of 50,0001. by way of grant for the promotion of useful works in Ireland ; the condition being, that parties in that country should themselves contribute a certain amount. Many applications had been made for the money; and about sin weeks ago there was one which had for its object the improvement of the navigation of the upper part of the river Shannon, so ea to admit of o larger description of steamers, which it was believed would be a great advantage to the northern part of Roecomoson and the aunty of Sago. For that purpose it was proposed to apple 50,0001., leaving a balance of 40,00.)!. undisposed of. 0; all the works undertaken in Ireland, none had been so advantageous hitherto as the construction of fishery piers, which had contributed to increase the supply of food, and farm a totally new source. The establishment of some ' curing-houses in different parts of the western coast had ini tiatol- the people I. that part of the country in the secret of eat . ng deep-sea fish. A very considerable tithing trade had been carried on, and the different establishments had, se nearly as possib le, paid for the outlay. It was then, to apply a further sun to the construction s i orl= piers, and the chairman of the Board of Works, = e l the funds were administered, Lord Mooney, had that the money could not be more usefully employed. If necessary, it would be proposed to repeal the act of lan see aim, in order to devote the 400,0001. of which he had spoken to this object. That was the purport of the second resolution, which related, in point of fact, not to an additional sum, but merely to a different appro priation. Now, his simple object had been to state precisely what were the views of the government co.lbse question, in order that there might he no inisopprehesselem; en 1 having done so, he should leave the matter in their hands. Mr. GIOULBURN mid that if he felt any difficulty with respect to the motion before the haute, tt wee on account of the results which might ulti matey low from it, as regarded the financial situation of the' ! country. (Hear, hear.) He must state his apprehensions, not with a view of censure, bat in order that, forewarned, they might be forearmed, and that they might not involve themselves ultimately in serious pecuniary difficulty. Now, the proposition of the right hon. gentleman was, to advance to three railway companies the sum of 620,0001., to be taken from the amount proposed to be raised by loan for the general relief of the population of the sister country. Ia the Ant place, he would observe that the statement that thieves merely an extension of the principle applicable to pidolis works in general, appeared to him not to be supported by feet. The principle on which advances for public works Ye! lately rested war this : a regular annual sum had been devoted to the purpose of assisting such public works, without distinction as to country or as to the character of the works, provided the security were sufficient. The advances so mode constituted no burden whatever on the consolidated fund, aad did not is any way subtract from the 1111211 which was available for the public service ; for while the set of 1842 allotted 360,000/. a year for the pupae of nuking advances, the repayment on account of advances previously made amounted aunually to the same sum, so that the financial arrangement' of the government were iu no degree affected. In consequence of the difficulty of raising money at the present moment, it was proposed to plum a large additional sum at the disposal of the commissioners. He could not cuttemplate that proposal without some degree of apprehension. (Hear, Lear.) The house ought not lightly to eanctioa gmuts out of the conso lidated fond, either in the shape of advances or in that ef public pante ; for if, in addition to the annual charges which devolved upon the country, advances of large sums wer made from tame to time out of the consolidated fund, that necessarily reduced the balances in the exchequer, and th- reduction produced an augmentation of the quarterly deficiency bills, which, so far an it operated to divert to the assistance of government stuns which might otherwise heaved able toe the aceoramodatioa anode were, in a certain degree, - additional especially le periods of sINWaW: a source of ein'..•arramment. (Haar, hear.) He viewed, therefore, with peculiar jealousy any proposed nereentation of the charges on the consolidated fund ; and if he had spoken on the subject on the previous occasion, one of his chief arguments against the motion would have been the difficulty arising from an Increase of the deficiency bills. (Hear.) Although he was new relieved from bit alarm with regard to this charge of 620,0001., which the right honourable gentleman sail had been provided for in his previous calcula tions, yet he could not but think that there were still grounds for inculcating upon the government prudence with respect to the future. The right hon. gentleman pro p sled, on that oceasioe, to make en advance to a particular railway company, which had paid up half its capital, and was therefore authorised to borrow the remainder. Now, in the first place, be would ask whether, if this advance were made, the right hon. gentleman could refuse to make a eimi ler one to other companies placed in the same position? (Hear, hear.) This company could borrow money to com plete the line on the terms upon which money was now to be mocured in the market, and it was the interest of share holden that a line should be constructed within the shortest possible period ; they would make sacrifices in order to get some return for the capital expended. If this company went into the market at that moment, 8 per cent. was the lowest amount at which they could borrow the money which they r”i red. Bat the government came to their aid and said, 11 will lend you half this money at 5 per cent. ;,, thereby redwing the amount which they would otherwise hue to pay from 8 per cent. to 81. 10s. per cent. Such being the advantage of the arrangement to this particular company, what would be the effect upon a competing company, which might be in an equally prosperous condi tion, and equally ready to avail itself of such assistance ? (Hear.) If this company, when it went into the market, lad to barrow money at 8 per cent., was it not obvious that unlees the same measure of bounty were extended to both companies equally, they gave to one an advantage over the other which was not consistent either with justice or with theordinary course of such dealings? He thought, therefore, tbst if the right hon. gentleman had consented to make this eivance, unless he very distinctly proclaimed the contrary and adhered to the proclamation when made, he would be pressed, and justly so, to extend corresponding advantages to all similar undertakings which had fulfilled the condi tions imposed—(hear, hear)—and, if that were the case, he knew not to what extent the amount demanded might pro ceed. Nor, indeed, if this system should be extended, would the inconvenieners of it be limited to the partial operation upon different lines ofnilway. The railway companies which were u4steil, having half the required amount furnished to them by government at five per cent., would obviously be able to give higher terms for the remainder than other companies which had to compete with them. (Hear, hese) When other companies offered eight per cent., they could afferd nine, and thin would they raise the market rate one pee cent. It appeared to him, therefore, necessary to incul cate great caution la transactions of that nature. They knew bow ready persona were to avail themselves of the slightest hope of eminence, and how difficult it was to resist claims which had been admitted in similar cases; sad if, inland of being a solitary instance, this proved to be the origin of a series of measures, he feared the consequences which would be produced by such an acumuletion. (Hear, hear.) He felt sure that that was a time when, lade pendently of the panic which at present prevailed —a panic which he, in common with the right hon.. gentleman, In hered to be an exaggerated alarm, rinsing from the circumstances of the moment—(hear, hear)—and front some mieeendart on the part of those to whom the remegemeat of the monetary transactions of this cassia IMO imunitted—balieviag in the truth of what was stated the Ober sight by those who were the most com petent to form astigaist IS the natter, that the circula tion of the aensay was folk that trade was never Ice a healthier state and that whatever panic prevailed at that moment ...tad shortly subside; severtheless he saw ens* in the state of this country, at the present moment, to kirk Yin to enforce upon the government and upon the ke.e the greatest dune of prudence, with respect to the flame, last they should Involve themselves in difficulties, not a= of a monetary character, but from which it not be easy- to provide a remedy. The present shale of Me country was owing to a combination of causes whkb, he believed, would never be winsome& Is eorabinaties et my antecedent period. Is the first lase, it was notiebas that a part of the Idegder bed been visited by Aeolian famine, and that the ereeteree bed been the necessity of ileport ing • great queallty prevhisse ; and the had not been t o to this imam but had opmsle upon every Israguit country Is oar immediate abb. bearhesd, so M le misses the difficulties of our ems. Mate was rarer are et resetry difficulty against wldelh le we seaniam that they amid take the greatestoseihis I gamer lions. The "item of this coutirry h adbeen seised at a are • rate. That system, while it led Mai real resew eteribratitt, and would, ultimately, be par Melia astern eikerese to these who embarked in it, r aril el to the whsle did, nevertheless, in the neat brisase, swift to the sionetary interests of the cosatry. (Rear, bear.) It was aebber Erre nee ler than seareersiiks espied al ha arretty Into fixed capital, AYE Erna Ishii ON floating capital, if weekli Wa within • limited period, and a re- dheads period In that wide b t rod in leibra any in terest. And aldregk at lbe geeent ar meat, they wen calr sufhetag wader de reerit el rth for ist ariseedur rem yea hey dean eat of their eireldeeries het he ariera authorised to be en prided la she b leer wadding's' Into °passim at a future pried, cell fesehrw to aeheasse the .geearsiary dfillealtiee ✓ides !am the Wear et a hares ogled Into • fixed marl, hr wkikh there was NO iiIIIMASIM re turn. (Hear, hear.) They stood wry Birk to the situation of a hawker, who, having a large ca pital at kis disposal, looked it up is the weber of rover sions, instead of employing it in the ordinary course of trade. (Hoar, him.) The application of this unduly large sum to undertakings of this nature, though it diffused great pros perity amongst the different climes employed upon them, drew also from the manufacture of exportable commodities the sum which might otherwise be employed in that dine lion ; and the ample means of purchasing food given to numbers of persons had tended to increase the necessity for importing provisions, and thus to augment the difficulty as regarded /bullion. There was therefore, be thought, the greatest reason for caution lest they should be led to infringe on the balances in the Exchequer. Another cause of finan cial emberranment was the deficiency in the cotton crop. (Hear, hoer.) An increase had been made in the price re- quired to be paid for this article, which was hardly less ne cessary than articles of food. A ll these co:usiderations induced him to impress on the house the importance of exorcising caution in the charges which they imposed on the revenue of the country. They were already under rely deep engage ment; either for the support of Ireland or for other necenery purpoen. For drainage there had been authorised to be issued from the consolidated fend • sum of 3.5,000,0001. What might be the exact demands on account of Ireland, whether arising from employment on public works, from the relief of the poor, or from other coupes, or how far they would be covered by the remainder of the loan, the right hoes. gentleman was better able to judge than him self ; hot if he might calculate from the experience obtained previous to the April quarter, he should be apprehensive that the means provided would not be sufficient. It must be remembered, too, that the ordinary supply for the year was greater than usual. (Hear, hear.) The balances in the exchequer, which in January were 9,000,00 W., were in April under 5,000,0001., and if a corr esp onding re duction in those balances should by any misfortune take place before January next, they might by that period anti cipate a difficulty far greater than that under which they now laboured, because the demands made by the govern ment for loans from the bank would entirely incapacitate that establishment from extending accommodation to the mercantile community. (Hear, Lear.) Such were the dangers which might be apprehended if they did not observe great caution as regarded advances, whether made for charity, for public works, or for the ordinary service of the country ; and his only reason for stating them was a desire to see the country saved by timely precaution from injurious consequences. (Cheers.) S Mr. F. FRENCH expressed himself somewhat disap pointed with this proposition, and thought it hard that this 820,0001. was to be taken from the sight millions, instead of forming a distinct item.. _ _ . Mr. M. GORE said there was ea great a field for enterprise in Ireland as in any other country, but there was a want of capital, because there was a want of security. A government, therefore, was perfectly justified in providing security which would induce the outlay of capital, and consequently induce enterprise and the employment of labour . Mr. W. COLLETT complained of the exception from government patronag,e of several legitimate railway schemes, equally entitled to consideration with those which had been selected. Mr. CAYLEY was prepared to support the bill, but in the present condition of the country the question really before the house was not the nominal motion before them, bat the effect upon the country of the Bank Charter Act of 1844, whether or no it had answered the purpose for which it was deafened. It appeared to him that it had not an swered that pumas, Mr. CHAI'LIN said, that as he understood the money to be lent was to come out of the eight millions already voted, and was to be appropriated to a purpose of which he ap. proved, he should not feel justified in withholding his sup. port from the government. Sir W. CLAY defended the bill of 1844, and contended that the present state of the money market might be ac counted for on grounds far other than its operation. Mr. ROEBUCK said that all parties were agreed situ the present alarming state of our affairs. It was admitted on all hands, that there was great depression in the money market, great difficulties is the manufacturing districts, end alto gether great disturbance in our general mercantile intervene. Every one admitted the facts, but nobody had as yet asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why he now sought ! to introduce a new element of danger. (Hear, hear.) The right bon. member for Cambridge University had puzzled him (Mr. Roebuck) not a little. The right hon. gentleman had made a most convincing speech; one, the ! conclusion of which was se p-ain, that every one had come to it but the right hon. gentleman himself ; and that was, to vote against the government proposition. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman had indeed deelsrsd, kat he would nave voted against the prop nition but for the state ment of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. What was that statement ? The statement of to-night wan different from that of Monday last; but it was now, that government pro• posed* lend 620,0001. to Irish railways out of the eight millions already voted for the relief of Irish distress. Now, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer asked for that eight millions, he stated that be had calculated the probable amount o f distress likely to occur between that time and August, and had fixed eight millions as the amount neces sary to provide sufficient relief. He wished to know what c ircumstances had arisen enabling the right hon. ' gentleman to divert from its original intention the sum voted for the relief of the Irish people? He knew of no ground why this 620,0001. should be so directed for the purpose of lending it, as a money lender would lend mon , to these railroad companies. The right hon. the Chancels, of the Exchequer is a previous discus ' sion , bed suppled an hypothesis which Jere would induce him le supra the prineiple he now rekekkeeled. On the oottaisahe eluded to, the right hon. gemtlemem said I base keel weft 'COMM& MO het the leeeritles which the rafters ear nee allerate and melhinet. I haw heard nothing to emmlnee me asilhelineek te tedestal by Ihe astitess rams In ledrl am the whim daft _ere at aIIINIMONWIZake With Ur cephilkee rah Is peers& nth WO hew herd any thtag leaver. as ace, k the moat slake' the somas et the c=i,miiihd will he MOWN Wilk pu h ha the tees es wed is II OR when kr rear Ora germ* meshaseh Ise I Yam neteing emislnse did I dm•M ed i n ungiodeg rasa en the peek of tees eweaby hese& a purpoise. roe the pare, selleang as areas et as rale of Imhof!, awl efeemewhg lase god dna, I *mid not hrii. terse kab i r e teetthlseeekey, beekeel es hay we, Is provide mew et lee heeded aketh hat beim I sak tie Perk et his , made, se they hereseces in =kr great Onto* le say wherlaidos et this Idol. a hag I mat Ca=ed % ibet Ile woe era pe theft sod angular ter lesteseeen. New, whisked m e re dept pink I Nuke I ma net et test theater amid hum, a peat assay hake. On the emdry Ithlak it were he erseekkgly wrememse moat le We ts e n earsentary dmeeemee, that the del l.M = I become • et snow onaperton with twinge apitellea , Whet bed eestured lase this to justify the imposition of this ace bran be bow not. As he believed there was ' nothing fs pelea he timidly this proceeding—believing that tbe relent Lmadel position of this country was one! of great danger, spite of the sanguine expectations in which the Chane of the lizelequer had indulged—believing that a great egret& must be made by the people of this country dialog the sowing months of the present year • and! as they *di we be as yet certain of what the coming her vest would miss% he eseeidered they were jeopardising all that was peat mg geed ea eel. for this kingdom, in del ing in fhb hem and relelleselen.lik• manner with the great intermit of the goanap, std he shield fuel perfectly justified in asides upon the eskedtese hrestior to divide upon the voodoo, and is kt he pespbut leglesa know whether for the future that which they bell eassed ley the sweat of their brow, their care, anxiety, sad peat intelligence, was to be thrown away like so many countess at a card-table ? Mr. B. OSBORNE inquired whether ministers expected that this 620,0004 to be given to these Irish railroads would absorb the surplus labour of the country. Looking at the state of the country, he was justified in calling upon the noble lord to explain, now that the poor-law had passed, what other great and comprehensive measure he had in contemplation for the purpose of facilitating the working of that law, by af fording employment to the surplus labour. The drainage act would, at the most, give employment to no more than 40,000, for about two years, whereas, under the =React, 700,000 had been steed ma the reads. The ahem for granting I,ooo,ool4lhriesishilesenste lands had bees given up ; there was se help lbseehme tie be expected helm that source. But it bed hen nevi that the would imreements in agriculture, what be eeneeptuti wpm nowiret of the government, would imam the drawl ihr kbeor, but he believed the experishe t hie Menky west le hew that every improvement in the sputum et wlllwlim diatialetted the demaed for labour apes the land. In Begird, four, or at apes Sr., was the arseaber of lahowiers e y or d per acre, while, Intend, the lend sow hod t for doable cad Inaba Mir egiadart pie rim The et the Imhogere told then thee the le per amt. et those who had Um aleendy sheik of the patio works (and easther le per out wee le be Nevelt eh on the 19th of May) bed bees meshed by Me !puma, but the reports of the gweeement befell= *swot that in Clare, Cork, Waterbed, 111•Wholl saw purls el inbad, such had not bees the aro goreememit rut provide some other maw kr — ougleyles the Meer of Ireland—this Meese. 1011,1111111.wanld net kaiak the Irish people. (Hem, bear, awl a isila.) If they would preserve Ireland, ' and hike the isles oes ',reality, and net merely of name, they seek gene Owing with some great end comprehensive sham bored what they had yet done. The course of the gomenekeg, en the preseat °cession, folly justified kim in the vole he bed given in favour of the bill of the noble lord (o.lleYnek), and he only regretted that a fah, pride had revealed the noble lad (3. Itumell) from abri it. He wee he he Make who air& Indwell would better elspmeled leint i the ll' as toe w l :l l l be sulli t t e the bgksa 1 3 1 th r e NS. which had taken place saes the union bad wit bees mot se to conciliate any clue. What clam of panne wall be easelliated by the messeres which were sewl Unless - this government, or any other, were w=Se leek the didloalty in the fees, and come forward semmeelleekke meseares, mash as he disliked it—for be bad no bah is look union—(langlita)—h e should he obld to *kb that only an assembly or Irishmen could leghLte foe bin& Mr. BPOOI,IIM add that the grant to these railways in Ireland was set the only point to be considered, but the ability of th*eemelny be do it. Tbls emend the question to be commend mak or seenetary system, win-Is - should be brought behre Ike home in all its bearings. The Chancellor of the Ezitheque. ea • former occasion, IssZ s treased views eliffe t• then he had unwed He' said that the men not dimkgrated,, fir -it amounted to %, . it'wes olgiblelei far all bat PAM he mid &Mit Mend 4 be %can:re:- ammo Wag la, Unlit tbselial came when the Boa tesesee the reatriatiew it kW 4804. But it ebenbil 1181 reedtiored that what miglit M ealildent in a Yrte af wonld not be ea 14111111 tame wee slam, and WaM a circulation of 20,000,0001. might be enough in thine onaideoce it would not be sounder different circum ✓enters. The circulation was said to be 20,000,0001., but 2,500,0001. was all that the Batik showed is the last returns The balm* against the trade of this country was 8,000,0001., which must be paid immediately, and in gold. Did not thin make a greater number of notes necessary. He doubted whether the views of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with regard to the danger being over, were correct; for could that be so, with a balance against our trade of 8,000,0001., to be paid in gold Hitherto, the drain bad been supplied by the reserve which the Bank had at command, and it had not adopted restrictive measures till it was obliged to so in self-defence. The Bank had only acted on the principles laid down in the bill of 1844, which directed it to set on banking principles only, and not with reference to the country. Only 14 000,0001. was to be laid out by the Bank in securities. What was the reason for taking this sum? The right hon. baronet the member for Tamworth had been asked what was to be done if they came to the end of the 14,000,0001., and he stated that he did nut like to say. That had nearly occurred, and he doubted, although the Emperor of Russia had come over to our aid, and bought 2,000,0001. into our funds, whether the Chan cellor of the Exchequer was not too sanguine in thinking the danger was over. He believed that the fact of this a venge by the Emperor of Ru.sia was true. It wan very ex traordinary that he should come forward with 2,000,0001. at this moment. Re thought that there was more in this then pecuniary interest. It was • most wise step in the Emperor of Susie, as far as he himself was concerned. He had ambitious views, and had long been hoarding bullion. It was possible he might think it unfitl to him to have Holland er France, and this country deeply in his debt. He might think it easier to meet us by russet of the trammels of our finances than by our armies and fleets, and if he was thwarted, he could take care that the 7,000,0001.—i0r 2,000,0001. had arrived, and five more were expected should be withdrawn from the money market, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer—by this means got out of his prissiest dilemma, would find himself in one far greater. He (Mr. Spooner) did not entertain the opinion that the remedy for this evil was by pushing out note*, be cause he believed the only effect would be the postponement of the evil, and when it arrived it would come with double force. But the moral of this was, that we had got such • circulation as brought us into danger, and he maintained that if the bill of 1844 was intended to preserve that of 1819, it had not answered that purpose. One year of famine would baffle both the bill of 1844, and that of 1819. Various per sons and circumstances bore the blame of the monetary ernes in this country. Now it was war, and then it was peace, which caused them ; and in 1838 it was the joint-stock banks which were the objects of much vituperation by the right hon. gentleman (Sir R. Peel). When the right hon. gentleman introduced kis bill, he asked what did • pound mean ? He could tell the house what the right hon. baronet had said. Sir R. PEEL—But what did I say in parliament ? Mr. SPOONER—The right hon. baronet waste* acute in debate for him (Mr. Spawner) at once to give an answer to an interlocutory question, but he would tell the right hon. gentleman something. If when Mr. Pitt, in 1799, came down and asked the house to consent to • measure which he said was for the safety of the nation, and prevent ing us from becoming the vassals of France, he had been met by philoeophors in the debate by the question—What is a pound ?—(laughter)—and they had refused to carry that measure, the question now would be, not what is • pound, but where is England? (Hear, hear.) He would venture to ask the right hon. baronet what was the pound at the time of the conquest? (Laughter.) All he could my was, that he hoped and trusted that the time would come when their laughter would be founded en some better ground than that which they had on the present occa sion. He asked the right hon. baronet what had been the pound during all the fluctuations and all the variations de tailed in history ? Re wished the house to know that the country was never in such a dangerous position as it was in at present. There was, no doubt, 9,000,0001., or 10,000,0001. in the Bank of England, Many people were told that they were safe as long as the Bank was so full of bullion ; but those who were well versed in monetary mat ten knew well that the bullion M the Bank was quitc power less. The currency before 1819 was not in • proper state ; but the bill of that period did not correct the defects that existed. He would warn the house that the danger was not over ; that it was still pending. It was staid by the temporary measures which had been paused, but only to return with greater force, unless the right hon. gentleman made use of the interval allowed him and the power given him. (Cries of " Divide.") He would conclude with this fact, that at this moment there were very many orders which had not been put in execution, and suspended by merchants who had received them from America, on ac count of the difficulty which existed of getting cash to pay their labourers every Saturday night. Thus they were withholding from labourers their payments, and keeping food out of the country. They were keeping their gold, and star tr ing bi tia j ewi l l s e. eve his support to this vote in the same way as he woul d have done to the vote of the noble lord opposite (lord G. Bootjack), if the noble lord on his side of the house (Lord J. Russell) had not stated that he would leave office if it hal been agreed to, for then Ireland would have been left for some tame without any chance of relief. The only fault he had to find with the greet was, that it was not sufficient. (Hear, hear.) Mr. M. J . (MORN ELL thought the proposition before the house preferable to the measure of the noble lord, the member for Lynn, inasmuch as it defined the railways to which &Balat on.). wig tebegiven. He begged to express his regret that the government had determined to withdraw their measure for the reclamation of waste lands in Ireland, and he could not help saying that they ought to have made up their minds sooner,—(hear, hear)—and have given a better reason fur its abandonment than the cursory statement of the right hon. baronet, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) Sir R. PEEL said the last wish he had was to throw any difficulty in the way of the government in dealing with the affairs of Ireland. He wu fully sensible of the magnitude, the danger, and the extreme difficulty of framing measures for Ireland to meet the exigencies of the time, and how easy it was to err with the best intentions—(hear, hear)—and, moreover, how indulgent they ought to be in criticising the measures which the government brought forward. It was, therefore, with great reluctance that even now he expressed his dissent from the course which the right hon. gentleman proposed. (Hear, hear.) He did not approve of the measure of the noble lord the member for Lynn, although that was free from some of the objections which applied to tin present proposal that was an impartial measure and gave facility, without distinction, to all railways —(hear, hear)—but it was now proposed to confine the aid of the government to particular companies. What had made him hesitate as to giving his vote in opposi tion to the motion of the right hon. gentleman was this . In 1644, he had held out expectations to • certain railway, —which had undoubtedly set the °ample to others, by great and personal exertions, of making railways in that country, —that, if they completed their line by their own meant, opened a portion of it, and thus enabled themselves to give full and ample security to the government,—the treasury would favourably receive an application front them. And had that company acted upon his suggestion, he should have been bound—the circumstances being the same—to fulfil the expectations he had excited. But the company had declined to accept government aid, so long as they could borrow money on more favourable terms. (Hear, hear.) Now, when they found that money could not be borrowed by the railway companies for less than 8 per cent., they had no right, after declining the offer of the government, when the state could have given them aid without inconvenience or loss, to come forward and ask for it when money was at 8 per cent. Therefore the treasury was perfectly at liberty to act as they thought fit with reference to such railroad. With respect to the other two companies, the amount was email, no doubt; but what was the principle involved ? Though these companies were perfectly unembaressed, and though the amount proposed to be granted was only about 100,000/., still the circumstance of two particular railways being selected for , public aid would lay the government open to the charge of ' partiality ; union, indeed, they were prepared to offer the same aid to all railways which fulfilled the same conditions. But the consideration which weighed most upon his mind was the particular moment at which the piroposal was made. This was a time of peculiar and special pressure. In the course of one week, the Bank of England tied thought it necessary to mama the moult of it. securities by three millions ; and be wprelhonisi that that sudden movement had materially es, to the prude now existing, which, however, ha believe' be he ibmeengity tenjustl , :ed by the real facts of the own Mem.) 130, slate the proposal of the noble lord the member he Lynn was before the house, important events had .eared. Exchequer Bills were then hovering between a muds% and • discount; they were now at a discount of between 2s. and 10e. The scrip of the new stock was at a discount of about three per cent. He had opposed the motion of the noble lord (Bentinck). on the ground, amongst others, that the promotion of railway works was not by any me an the beet mode of relieving the die tresses of Ireland ; said all the arguments against that measure applied with fall mess to the mitigated proposal of the right boa. gentlemen now made. But it was not so much on that account, as on amosint of the peculiar Mai' in which we were now placed, and the impnrtaoee to Ireland itself of maintaining the publie credit, that be regretted this proposal had been made. And, degreases be was of giving his support to the government during this crisis, he found it im possible, with hie honest convictions, to give his vote in favor of this measure. (Hear.) He had been very unwilling to make any captious objections to the measures of government. He had ventured to throw out a hint as to the =policy of spending large sums in the reclamation of waste lands in Ireland ; and the cowrie now pursued by the right hon. genUeman confirmed him in the correctness of his original impression. Perhaps the right hon. gentleman might say, he had cot eight millions; he was going to rave something on the public works ; the soup kitchens would not cost so mach as had been expected, and, therefore, he might spend 620,0001. in Irish railways. He (Sir R. Peel) always heard en moment of that kind with much distrust. If the government had 620,0001, to spare, it was their duty to increase their balances in the exchequer. (Hear, hear.) Because the house had been liberal in sanctioning the Inca, on that very account the duty was more incumbent on the ministry to apply any saving that might arise, not to another special expenditure, but to diminish the public difficulties, and to increase the public confidence. (Hear. Therefore, if the 620,0001. was to come out of the eigh t millions, which he for one had fully expected, it would be much better applied in the way he had indicated. (Hear.) If any &dem:toes were to be made, it ought to be an advance in which all parts of the United Kiagdom should share • and he mast object to • special grant, from which Scotland and THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 1, 1847: thewholoof thiscountry were excluded. Oe what ground were other demevingrail way undertakings to be told, " We will not only withhold similar assistance from you, but we will ren der it more difficult for yon to raise money in the market, by • the assistance which we acted to certain other schemes." (Hear, hear.) Ent it had been stated that, so highly woe the Greet South-Western Railway of Ireland thought of, that it was not dependent on Irish eapitelists for advance', but that English capitalists readily came forward to aid it. If this were really the case, if it belonged not to those desti tute shareholders' of whom much had been said, but to men ofsubstance, like the right hon. gentleman behind him, the Lordityor of York— (laughter); ;—sagaciont men, who as were speculators to the prost of gain ; upon what part s grounds were they to be allo wd to borrow money at five per cent.,_ when everybody else was paying eight ? (Hear. hear.) He thought this a most improper occasion for • general debate on the currency—a subject Into which the s ingle member for Birmingham had entered. (Laughter). Mr. SPOONER—I did not introduce it. Sir R. PEEL. said it was quite clear that that hon. gentle man was the chief authority for the doctrine he professed ; he had studied the question more than many other persons ; he represented that constituency which had the strongest feel ing on the subject ; end, though ho had not commenced the dominion, he had lent the unction of his high authority to it. He (Sir It. Peel) did not wish tube provoked into 'general discuriun, but it was impossible he shorld observe an entire silence sr acquiescence in his arguments. He ( Mr.S pooner) had made a sort of promise that dim (Sir Robert) would tell him what a paund was at the time of the conquest, he would tell him what he (Mr. Spooner) or any other banker meant when he issued a note to the public, and said, " I promise to d mend 61." His (Sir Robert ' s) question was, InVha on de mend is the .51. which you promise to pay ?" That seemed a very simple question ; but the hon. gentleman said that he (Sir Robert) was an insidious man, and that he could out trust himself to answer. (Laughter.) A pound, at the conquest, and at various subsequent periods, mi,,Mt have varied as to the quantity of the metal ; but, at sea y given pe riod, it had always meant a definite quantity. Treat quan tity was at first regulated by weight ; and he apprehended the pound had taken its name from the circumstance of its corresponding to a pound weight of silver. However that might be, and however the quantity might have varied from time to time, " a pound" had always signified a definite quantity. Since the reign of Queen Elisabeth we hod cer tainly had both a gold and silver standard ; and though the coin might have been occasionally debased, and was constantly worn, still the intention of the law had always been that " the pound"should denote a definite quantity of th • precious metals. The hon. gentleman said, that if Mr. Pitt asked, in 1797, " what was a pound," this country would have been lowered in the scale of nations. But, if any man said to Mr. Pitt, in 1797, " Is it your intention to have an inconvertible paper currency ?" he would have have said, " God forbitt !" (Hear, hear.) It never was his intention. No man would have deprecated it more than Mr. Pitt. But here was the evil of a first departing from principles. (Hear, hear.) Once involved in it, even Mr. Pitt could not go back. (Hear, hear.) Whether the glories of the war wore owing to in convertible paper or not, this he would say, that the social condition of the country was impaired by it Oleic, hear.) He would tell his hon. friend who suffered most from it. It was that class who received the wages of labour—(hear, bear) . —for though the wage, of labour might nominally remain the same. the command they had over the necessaries of life was very much reduced. (Hear, hear.) But not withstanding all the glories of the war, the currency before 1819 was moat imperfect. In what respect? B. cause it was inconvertible. (Hear, hear.) He understood his hon. friend to say that it was unwise in 1819 to restore the an cient gold standard; that parer, not being equal in value to gold, though nominally it professed to be so, and, there fore, when they were arranging the currency, they ought , not to have adopted, as the standard, gold at the value of 31, 17..10;4. the ounce, but gold at 41. 6s. or 41. 10s. the mines, or something which might represent the depreciation of paper which had taken place. But, with the exception of pecuniary engagements, it web a matter of utter indif ference, provided tin promissory note was to be paid in coin, whether they adopted the gold standard of Sr. 17s. 104 d., or 41. 2a., or 41. 55., or anything else, It would be no relief to commerce if the rtannard was now 41. 60., instead of 31. 17s. 104 d. (Hear, hear.) Would not the fortigner know the value of the currency, make what re duction they might? (Hear, hear.) For the payment of internal debts, indeed, it might make a difference, but it was a matter of perfect indifference as to the pressure on the Bank in a time of commercial difficulty, provided that there MN the obligation to pay at tome time or other in coin, the whole value of the note. (Hear, hear.) Would his hen. friend undertake to revise the arrangement of 1819, because that was the question? If he did not do that an inconvert ible paper currency would offer no remedy. If they would have one pound sons, indeed, and encouraged the export of ' geld, that might give some relief for a time; but if they maintained an inconvertible paper currency, and were not at the same time prepared to revise all the tractions which not only preceded 1819, but the whole of the transactions which had taken place since 1819 it would not have the slightest effect in diminishing these difficulties. The transactions in the funds since 1819, had taken place in the appreciated currency, and every man who purchased en estate since then paid for it in the same way. Was it possible, then, that the most strenuous oppo nent of the arrangement of 1819 could now propose to readjust the immense transactions which had taken place since 1819. His honourable friend admitted that the act of 1844 was necessary to maintain the act of 1819. It was the complement of the act of 1819 ; and those who supported the gold standard of 31. 175.104.1. were bound to support the act of 1844. He must say that the act of 1844 was completely misunderatood. The main object of that act was to secure the convertibility of paper into gold. That was its principal object ; but another object of it certainly was to have such a currency as should ensure to the holder of paper the full equivalent of its nominal value, and at the same time should not restrict the ordinary commercial transactions of this great country. (Hear, hear.) Well, his firm belief was that the act of 1814 did not impose any such restriction. It was erroneous to suppose that that act contained in itself a self acting prin ciple, and relieved the Bank of England from nll responsi bility. He totally denied the claim for relief from all responsibility- on :he part of the Bank of England in carry ing out the act of 1844. The issue department contained, he admitted, a self-acting principle, because the amount of notes issued from that department was governed by law, and the Book had no discretion. But the Bank had a discretion in the banking department. It was responsible for the general I , tuperintendence of the monetary canceros of the country. (Hear.) It was bound by prudence, caution, and foresight to prevent ultimate embarrassment and pressure, to prevent an undue increase of circulation, but also to prevent an undue restriction of it—(hear, hem)—and he understood that the Bank recognised the principle on which the nct of 1844 was founded, and acknowledged the obligation to con duct its concerns with some reference to this principle. The Bank had a right to receive from him testimony to its high honour, and he must may he that establishment, without bearing testimony to the high honour of those concerned in it (hear, hear) and with the imperfect knowledge he, not being entrusted with the rnponsibility of government, possessed, he spoke of it with hesitation. But he felt hound to my, that so fie from any thing which now occurred impeaching the act of 1844, that both the time of prosperity,. and now this present time of adversity, convinced ham that the principle of that art was founded on sound policy, and that it ought to be, en ft: se he was aw.me, strictly upheld and maintained. (Hear, hear.) He could not help feeling that a rigid ob-ervance of the general principles on which that act was founded would have prevented, at least, the temnsity of the evil. (Hear, hear.) Why, this act of 1844 never professed to teach the people of this country--at least, it did not inculcate upon them the necessity of caution ; but, he; must say, that there had been, en the part of almost all the community, a I great disregard of those indications of danger which were perfectly legible since the month of August, 1846. (Heir, hear.) He thought the whole community had neglected those signs of the times which could not be mistaken; and, speaking with all deference, the Bank autho- rities bad been equally unmindful of thomaigna. (Hear.) The Bank, at the beginning of the year, in January, way exposed to a drain of geld which continued for some period of time. It was the duty of the Bank especially, as superintending the general monetary concerns of the country, to have made artier provision foe the danger which it was clear must arise. He could not understand why they did not raise the rate of discount sooner. Many brokers nod other discount houses laid me novo to the Bank on account of its 'great. respectability. These parties, when a time of difficulty came, expected ac commodation from the Bank of England, and if the bank suddenly turned round and refused that accommodation, it was an act of great harshness, and one which would be motion the interests of the bank itself. It was true that the bank had a right, in • c. rtain degree, to influence the mone tary transactions of this country, but if, in January last, the bank authorities bad raised the rate of discount to 6 or 6 per ant., rather titan impose any arbitrary restrictions with reference to the date to which bills for discount were to run, and by timely precautions in other respects, he (Sir It. Peel) believed that the difficulties which now existed, if notentirely, would certainly very materially have been avoided. (Hear.) But the whole question really at issue was, whether there should be a eon vettible paper cur • icy—whether there should be a at indard of value to regulate that currency. He might be supposed to have a prepossession hi favour of the measure which be had some years ago introduced ; but if the house thcmght it could adopt a real remedy for the pre sent embarrassment, or cure the existing panic, no paternal regard for the measure which he had some yearn since car ried would prevent him consenting to en alteration of the system which that measure effected, but his firm belief was that no relief would be afforded by any intermeddling with that measure. (Hear, hear.) The exchanges would not be benefited by an increase of the currency, and therefore care, and motion ought to prevail, lest in the hope, of relieving present difficulties permission was given to the bank to mine 16,000,0001. instead of 14,000,0001., and thereby the currency should be depreciated. (Hear.) If it be true that the present state of trade—of speculative trade—was good—supposing that the Bank was perfectly solvent—supposing that the paper currency maintained its value---supposing that the wages of labour were paid in paper, which was cult to he eqeseded in the purchase of provisions—he entreated the home not to be tempted by the hope of solving this dillselay to encounter the greater danger. If the currency shield be so depreciated that the Bank should not be able le maintain the patent of its paper in the gold in which that pager was to he paid—if the cautery had spit to encounter ell done eta from which, since 1819, it bed esseped with is Era pain and ent ering—in his opinion *lit enewentat email men he ask with outebaking to the teswistienthepreeperkyetthe nentwa, and with it the happiness, seselbet, and preeperity of the great mass of its isolustrions population. (Chew ] Lord J. RUSSELL—After the speeds of the right hon. baronet, especially as it referred to the Mall of the resolu tion which was in the Speaker's hawk I art a* the attention of the house for a abort time while I none die diffi culties of the position of the governmeet, le order that they might eemeider the merits of the question before them, not simply as a question solely affecting general principles, but as a question relative to the present condition of Ireland, and the enormous calamity with which that counts./ has been visited. The hon. member for Wycombe (Mr. B. Osborne) has put to me a question. The hon. member said there was an immense amount of surplus labour in Ireland, and inquired how did we propose that this surplus labour should be employed? Now, I must decline, on the . part of her Majesty's government, assuming the responsibility of pro viding far the absorption of any great mass of labour that now exists in Ireland, to answer that question. lo the course of times past, we bare, owing to the faults of kgisla tion—owing, perhaps, to the faults of landlords—owing to the faults of tenants with long leases, and, perhaps, owing to all them circumstances combined, arrived at a state of things in Ireland in which an immense class of the propels - lion living upon agriculture are not paid the wages of labour sufficient for their subsistence. (Hear, hear.) An immense calamity happens to that omatry—the destruction of its produce, according to the estimate of the Under secretary' for Ireland, amounted to not less than 18,000,0001. sterling. It is supposed that the food—potatoes the chief nutriment of the population—could not suffice in future. What was to heco'ica of the population, then, in the years to come i I deny on the part of the government the respon sibility of completely and suddenly answering that question. (firer, hear.) A more difficult problem for solution never came before the legislature. The evils which had been growing for ages have now arrived at ma turity, and the effects of the sudden destruction of the potato crop could not be completely obviated by any course the government or the legislature could take. What both the government and the legislature could do was, to mitigate the present sufferings of the people, and to try to edict a transi tion to a better state of things. I need not refer to the mea sures which were taken with a view to the first of these objects. Those measures hare been costly—they have been adepted at the expense of considerable difficulty to the finances of the country : but when, as some philanthropists put forth with great calmness that two millions of people should net be allowed to perish in the land without any interference what ever, it would have been repulsive to the feelings of the present House of Commons, and to any minister who might occupy the treasury bench, if we had not attempted to miti gate the evils which the Irish population were suffering. With these views the government had carried measures more or des direc ted towards this end; and I do not regret the attempt made to maintain 730,000 men on public work' in Ireland, because I believe that those efforts have been most conducive to the preservation of the lives of great muses of that population. (Hear, hear, bear.) The next question, and the moat serious, is one which I spe cially referred to in the course of my explanation at the com mencement of the session—namely, to attempt, by measures of a permanent nature, to facilitate the transition to a better order of things, and to provide for the future prosperity of the country. I would say at once, in answer to what fell from the hon. member for Wycombe, that I could not pre tend—that I never have pretended, and do not now pre tend—to frame a comprehensive measure, or a series of comprehensive measures, which, without modification, proposed all at once, could beadopted by parliament to work infallibly to the end in view. I have no such confidence ; I em far from being so sanguine as to the effect of tLe measures I propose. All I could expe:t would be, to propose measures generally well calculated to effect the object. Some of them might be adopted, and might be found beneficial ; others might be adopted in part; whilst many might require exceedingly to be changed, or entirely to be abandoned. In my statement at the commencement of the session, I said we proposed to advance a million for the improvement of landed estates is Ireland, and a million for the reclamation of waste lands. In considering the former of these mea sures, we thought it advisable to add one-half as much again to the sum onginally proposed, so as to nuke the loan a mil lion and a half, and in that state the measure passed. With regard to the other pleasure, I have little more to say than to repeat what was stated by my right honourable friend in the early part of this evening. The virtue of that measure—its great power of effecting good—depended on its being compulsory. Bat, after the mama' of that measure were stated to parliament, we heard from various quarters that a measure of a compul sory character on the landlords was considered too violent, and that in this, and more especially in the other house, a measure based upon such a principle seas likely to meet with strenuous opposition. (Hear, hear.) We then con eidered—and this was before the Easter recede — whether the measure without the compulsory clauses would not be so adapted as to effect a considerable good, though not with the same promptitude or the same certainty. The measure was undertaken in that shape by my right hon. friend the Secretary far Ireland ; but the more he went into it the greater he found to be the difficulty of adapting it shorn of its 'compulsory provisions. Now, I am frankly stating what occurred upon this enbject—(hear, hear) —and the course with respect to it which we deemed it most advisable to pursue. Having reconsidered it we thought it desirable that the bill should be laid upon the table for un sideration ; but without making it a measure to which we in any way pledged ourselves, or which we in any degree determined to proceed with. With regard, therefore, to these two measures, the house will see that one half-million of the sum originally proposed to be voted, is no longer in• tended to be applied to the soil of Ireland under these bills. That is, I think, an answer to the armament of the right hon. gentleman opposite, that it is unfair to the parties from whom we accepted the loan, that we should contract a new expense. Whilst upon the statement which I reads at the opening of the session, it appeared that we proposed to spend a sum of 2.000,0001., it will be evident, from my . present explanation , that the sum intended to be appropriated amounts to 2,120,0001. It cannot, therefore, be ionaidered that we have at all broken faith with the par ties to the loan, and I think the house will agree that they have nothing to complain of But the right hon. gentleman has other objections to make to the proposition. He says that either this is a measure involving a principle which will oblige us to incur a heavy burden and to risk the finances of the country, or else that it is a measure partial in its effects. Now, I think that is an argument which, if carried to its extreme, would apply to all the advances usually made by loan, under the authority of parliament. There is 1,50,0001. voted each year for loans to public works. A railway company comes and takes thislso,oool. Why it is obvious thatthe next railway company which comes must be content with refusal, upon the ground that the sum to be leaned for the year is I appropriated. In the same way, sir, we may surely fairly say, : We find ourselves able to advance 620,0001., but it Is not convenient to us, and therefore we decline to advance any larger sum." (Hear, hear,) These railways, be it remembered, have applied to the loan commis sioners they hare made out their case for as sistance to those commissioners' satisfaction—the commis sioners say they are satisfied with -the security offered, and that they would advance the money to the companies if the money were in their hands. Why, surely it is fair to say, under such circumstances, that we will grant this loan now, and that when other parties come in, iu Aamast, if come in August they do, that we will then say, " We gave as far as we could, and we cannot listen to any further propo- sition." (Hear, hear.) I say that this is a per fectly fair and legitimate course to pursue, taking into consideration the present state of Ireland. If we were to consider this as *common case, occurring in England, our advance might possibly involve us in obligations to listen to further claims. Bat, as the case stands, it is one peculiar in its nature—vast in its magnitude. The people of Ireland being obliged to adopt another sort of food than that to which they have been accietomed, the question is , are there any means at the disposal of the government by which they may make that transition easier ? (Hear, bear.) I say that for this purpose it e ill not do to rest upon a single remedy. It would be a great fault in us were we to say that we had any one measure which we proposed as a universal ?mum fur all the ills of the country. It is only, in my opinion, by a variety of measures that we can hope even partially to relieve Ireland from her difficulty. If we can must in constructing piers and harbours which will be useful in promoting the fisheries of Ireland—that will be a great advantage. If we can increase the produce of Inland by aiding in the reclama tion of her waste lands—that will also be • great advantage. As to railways, I thought that in my address in opposition to the bill of the noble member for Lynn, I had taken special cars to say, with sufficient distinctness, that though I could not congest, under the eireanastanees of the country, to drain our finances, by advancing 16 millions of money to railway companies, yet that I was not opposed to advances of money for public works, and that, of all public works, I knew of nom likely to be more useful than Irish railways. (Hear, hear). And that sentiment, sir, was entirely in con formity with the opinion I expressed in 1839, when my noble friend (Lord Morpeth), the then Secretary for Ireland, proposed to advance moneys, under certain conditions, for the formation of railway works—a plan which I regret the house did not at the time receive with greater favour, because I feel ensured, thee if acted on, those proposals of Sir John Burgoyne end my lamented friend the late Mr. Drummond, would, ere this, have greatly improved the condition of the Irish peasantry. Their armament, es very ably stated in their report, is that railroads will be the means of giving the agricultural pro duce of Ireland to England ; that you will thus get a better market for that produce, increase the agricultund wealth of Ireland, and thereby increase its profitable and useful labour. I think they state that about 1,200,000 tons of agricultural produce are brought yearly from Ireland to England, and they state particularly that with regard to the railroad be tween Dublin and Conk, that that railreat would go through a country of average fertility, some parts of which are nay rich in agricultural produce, and that they think that a great amount of agrieulturil produce would be conveyed by the railway. Now, I have never been of opinion that employment on a railway would be of use in affording a mitigation of immediate and urgent distrem, but I have, on the other hand, always contended that it would be • great remedy against the future misery of the country against that misery which we have seen in t years—that it would be a means of increasing the agricultagricultural wealth of Ireland, end thereby giving labour to thouaands, and, perhaps, in future years to millions, who must, otherwise, sink under the change which is likely to take place. (Hear, hear.) I say, then, that considering the peculiar state of Ireland ; considering the very great dint malty with which we have to deal—considering that the sum now proposed is not larger than that which I proposed on the 25th of January ; we are justified in asking the house to meat to the vote. The right hon. gentleman says it is no argument for giving 620 0001., to say that it is in the exchequer, and that you are therefore able todispose of that sum. I entirely agree with Lim in that respect; but surely he will not deny that the state of Ire land, during the present year, does teem an exception to almost every rule, and does impose very great difficulty, both upon this house and upon the government— (hear, hear) ;—and that a measure, trenching on the ordinary rules of finance, may be justifiable when you have as great a difficulty to deal with, and when the pur -1 parity of a country so closely united with England is the ob i met at which yen are aiming. Sir, it appears to me, th at the vote which we ask to-night may on these grounds be justified. (Haar, hoar.) I feel very heavily—l— ihe whole of this you, ever since the failure of the potato. amp was first ascertained, the very deep reeponsibility which MO upon the government in reference to this question. We have been attacked on various sides, and on various 6reuoda. that it is a great waste of the public money--a most unjus tifiable demand on the people of this country, t o inalk h lr i e g tili t i li y fi c; : co u ou n n di d wm e ta ::: i i' l l ;:P f r u n m i r t try . sut.(h)ffan,:hridennipse:u, mriPrea:nwreidladerpeci.aisiB°'"nagliml,hsi(eVaiag.H.l6l::: land, exclaim against the hea rt lessness of a government which would allow any persons to perish while means op to be found by which food might be supplied to every per son in the country. Sir, we have steered between these two opposite points. I cannot think that either of them is right; I cannot think that it would hays been right to stand by with arms folded, arid declare that we would wake no attempt to relieve Ireland in her present calamity. Neither, on the other hand, would it have been light, nor should we have been justified in declaring, that we would attempt to feed the whole population of Ire land, and that we hoped by the means we should adopt to prevent such suffering and such death by starvation, as can not but occur during such • famine as has happened in the present state of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, air, I moo say, with regard to this last question, that I believe that the declaration which we made, (het we should not interfere with the supply of food from abroad, has brought food in greater quantities to Ireland than it would otherwise have come there. (Hear, hear.) I believe there is no part of the continent of Europe in which corn and provisions are cheaper than thee are n ow found in Ireland ; but it does not follow but that many must die of want, and many more of fever. Now we have proposed to put on the property of Ireland the burden which properly belongs to it. We have proposed that, on th e part of England, • sacrifice to • very considerable amount should be made, in order to kelp the people of Ireland and the proprietors of Ireland in this great difficulty. The honourable member for Wycombe eked whether we meant to destroy the property of Ireland. 1 may my, in reply, that our best hops of getting through this diffi culty is, that the landlords will be beth able and willing to assist in the work. (Heat.) There may be some whose circum stances are so embarrassed that their best course would be to avail themselves of the facilites which the legislature will afford, in order to get rid of their title of proprietors alio- Esther. But, with regard to many others, lam convinced, from the exertions they have made, and the knowledge they pawns of the country, that our be s t chance of getting through this difficulty lies in their being able in haute years to bear the burdens which are imposed open them. We hope that they will look to the improvement of their lands as • source of income both to themselves, to their tenants, and to the labouring chute, living on the lands. It is to the union of those three classes—landlord, tenant, and labourer, not to any violent eenvuLion, but, on the contrary, to a more kindly knitting together of the various order of society—that we look as affording the best chance of the re. generation of Ireland. And now, sir, I will say a few words upon the question which has been raised in the course of the evening with respect to the c cumercial state of this country, and more especially to the state of the currency. With re gard to the commerce.] state of the country, my right hon. friend did not say what he has been represented, in the course of this debate, as having said, that the danger was past, that there was no longer any danger to be impreleoded. (Hear, hear.) Far from ;my right hon. fend stated vari ous circumstances which induced him to take a more alter ful view of our condition than he would have done a week or ten days ago. There are other circumstances, of a more general nature, which may, I think, induce us to look with hope to the future. I think, in the tint place, that it name be said that there is any depreciation of our currency from excess. (Hear, hear.) On the contrary, our erthanges with the continent of Europe are favourable, and show no depreciation of that kind. In the next place there ha , not been that over-speculation in trade and in goods which has sometimes been seen to produce such an accumula tion of stocks, that it was not likely that there could be any profitable trade for • long tins to come. On the contrary, the course of trade has been healthy, and, se far as I have been able to inquire, and to get information from various quarters, the stocks are not so large as they have usually been at this period. In the next place, the nacaufecturers are far from beiug without orders, or obliged to suspend their trade for want of orders from foreign countries. (Hear, hear.) Undoubtedly, the state of the continent—the very high price of food there, must make a very great different* with regard to the demand from thence. But with regard to America, lam told there are very large orders in the manufacturing districts, which I do expect to see executed, and we shall thus be able, by the export of our manufectures, to pay for • portion, at least, of the food which we have had to im port. These are all circumstances which are, I think, favourable as to the future commercial state of this country. That there has been great difficulty—that there is great d culty at the present moment, I am obliged to confess. There is great difficulty at present in the circumstances detailed by my right hon. friend, and by the right hon, gentleman oppo site, the member for Tam worth ; and there is this gem:rah:awe for that difficulty, that there has been a very considerable draia of gold, and that no person is in possonite of exact information as to the further drain of gold which may be required. (Hear, hear, hear.) There is information on this subject in my hands, but though I feel much reliance oa its source, I should not consider my selfjustified in laying it at penult before the house. Hon. gentlemen have denounced our present system. and, in fact, any payment in specie. (" No, no," from Mr. Spooner.) I have heard several speeches on the subject, all pointing out the evil of the present state of things, .all speaking vaguely u to a remedy, and all as I understood rum, bearing out the interpretation I have given them. (Hear, bear.) One of these gentlemen, however, salt of the act of 1844, that it was a necessary complement of the act of 1819 ; and, indeed, an improvement upon it ; and I, for my part, concur in the opinion that it was an improvement, for whereas under the act of 1819 the pressure would not have come on until we bad been in a state of extreme danger, until there had been, perhaps, only two or three millions of bullion in the Bank, the consequences of the act of 1844 brought on the pressure at a much earlier period, giving at once the warning and the mean. for preparation. (Hear, hear.) this I conceive to have been the effect of the act of 1844. And what was the act of 1819? The return to cash payments—to the convertibility of paper into gold. I do not understand what medium the hoe. monger for Birmingham and his friends would have be tween paper convertible into gold and an unlimited paper currency • what other alternative they would propose (milts acts of 1819 and 1844 than a restriction of gold and a return to paper currency—("No, no," from Mr. Spooner).— The hon. a entleman will, perhaps, take an early opportunity of explaining, then, what be dues mean : but, fur my part, I do not comprehend any other alternative to the paper currency. I take him to advocate payment in specie, guarded by certain provisions, whether by thous of 1819 or 1844 is not now so material, but by some such provisions, of a kind similar to those of these two acts. (Hear, hear.) Ever since 1819, this has been the point of controversy between these who woald have a currency on bullion, and those who an in favour of a paper currency, irrespective of bullion. (Hear.) With respect to the minor point, whether the act of 1819 was satisfactory in itself, that is not now the question between us ; fur the hon. gentleman himself admits that the other act was a necessary complement of it. Upon that question, therefore, I will only Of at I believe our present system of currency is founded isgemsound principles. (Hear.) I believe that the measure now le operation has had the useful effect of inducing the Bank, at an earlier period than it would have done under the act of 1819, to take measures of precaution, which mea sures, thus taken, I further believe will save ea teem mach imiamoa.i preasure ve t an th,: d rt d asd is ny tress opit.d. in iub; fu th ti t ir t e e ..Li d eu bew , opro h: l 7 ...d .) be l : d y o b ilt LIM as the allowing the act of '44 to have its legitimate operation. (Hear, bear.) This is the first time it has been bologht into actual operation, and its effect has been te lead the Bank to many measures of precaution, mamma Alai believe to hare been most essential. I think llMEheloga d the B ink will in future have the means of mashing the operation of this measure, of adopting either ego* stringency or giving such relaxa tions as it may csoollfise useful or necessary ; and therefore I hold that, thee. a morrerey founded on bullion I. a currency whisk ta fiestreemlar ellended by inconvenience in times of elogetbi genus, it is the safest and Met currency this miff gin adopt, and that there is no coarse we could talkie* OM er so wise as to declare that we will not alleviate pewee pressure at the certain out of making that prams severe hereafter. (Hear, bear.) ' Mr. ill=i considered that the blame cut noon the Beek was altogether unfounded. 'He ansigolOsi st with this right hoe. baronet in think . beg fh• of giving government elinciinoe to private see Swett with danger to the country. 611111 seems he should vote against the pro ration hnhee die berm. (Question.) Lord O. BENTINCH rose, bat the cries of " Question," e Divide," became so general, that he with some difficulty ebersedi a beerier. He said that no one could eon et puss taken by the right honourable tAs imeaber for Tamworth on that evening, tebe=he • mem whieb the right bon. bar..net had taken doss aralbsolass, as Ms (Lord O. Sentinel's) motion, was bons la rosollsothst. The right hon. baronet's conduct was consistent. 11. (Lord G. Bentinck) did not deny at the present moment, there was great pressure on the amay-sasskat, and great embarrassment throughout our MenealffilislOnelallealt but he did not think, or fear th at ghee he meek dew stir industry, would at all add ar that embarrassment. (Hest, hear.) It Sp brown that in simulation a Ave pound note ins lasMd Pee thirteen times in the worse of a year, &edit might be peommed that a sovereign turned over a gust many PP but it was also known that a sovereign, if seat clawed did net Pim in lees than twelve lAe &Me Me' iaalat s frenthaer the time it would take *him a sowaript be* *ea America. (Laughter.) Having edvemeed tMMs aoistiass for all Irish railwate, he trintall be dew* not be deemed inconsistent in giving his supple to the mom PPM. He looked upon it as the small CO/ of dm wedge, sad be Wined that a little the. was ma that was naesseary to amble them to drive Blow. He meld oak heaver, help ebeerving, that the her mil lions whisk he hal pep seed to armee the yew t o rdallve Wear. end ea geed - am weeM ity,have beer heir do sr *Sol hr mild aa the popoillsa d lb. posamsat If his means boi beat aispiallbros mad. age, usher he a minks a matb, *fish had been lira sa• = il in useless weeks, would have been saved, and ag of Ireland veil ve equbeneted by the sato aris pm% trisc Wks& it wee ha said the Be ak of fi Begland shwa have put en the .mew eammr—ldir holism so in Ismifirg last, at what i % r e Rainsiafellklls aro wadi (ll*4 hear.) Re la vat eastalis lair to imps th.lsab of thst the assioat of the leak had bow iallairmal by a * tho goy small& To say *i *in was a g o ssearity to Nab Inieept in the Bank Charter