The Express. — London, England, 1847-03-23 00:00:00

- 105316 - 11 THE NEW ROUSE OF LORDS. Mr. HUME wished to ask a question of the noble lord the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests. That house was required to attend her Majesty whenever they were summon. ed, and it was most desirable that the Speaker should go up to the House of Lords with that decorum which the dignity of the house required. He might refer to a period not very distant when the house proceeded to the House of Lords in a manner consistent with its dignity ; but he thought the approaches to the House of Lords were each Is to hazard the personal safety of members. (" Hear," and laughter.) Ile could not speak of any part of the Speaker's habiliments, although he knew they had been in danger. It was moat important that there should be proper accommoda tion. He had visited the space below the bar and found it was not capable of containing a tithe of theme who ought to go, and if they were to be placed in such straitened cir cumstances, they must come to one of two determinations, either not to go at all, or to send a limited number of their body, for not more than twenty-two persons could stand than without pressure. Mr. Barry had admitted that there was not much room, but he thought the galleries would afford what was required. He did not speak of the ordinary proceedings of the house, when it was expected that the House of COMEOOII.I would be provided with seats, but he thought when they were summoned to attend her Majesty, after so much expense —( hear, hear) — and having waited so long, accommodation should be found fur more than a score of members of that house. He hoped measures would be taken to remedy this iaconvenience. There was serious ground of cmisplaint against somebody, and whoever it was ought to be called to amount. Major LAYARD wished to ask the noble lord a question in connexion with this subject. Some inconvenience had been felt by strangers being plated in the part of the House of Lords, below the bar, set apart for the House of Com mons. He wished to ask if places would be provided for strangers apart from those appropriated to the members of that house ? Viscount MORPETH said, that the accommodation for the House of Commons would be on the same scale as in the present house, though in proportion to the lamer size of the chamber. It was impossible to find space below the bar for all the members of the house consistently with the fitting up of the house for bushing purposes. He agreed with the hon. member for Carlow, that those strangers who were snowed access below the bar should be separated from members of the house. Besides the space below the bar, there would be galleries with seats. He had every reason to believe that the House of Lords would be anxious to consult the convenience of the members of that house. Mr. HUME said, what he wished was, that a committee of that house should be appointed to inquire what apace was to be &Horded to them. RUM DUTIES. viscouut skNno:sfr.iTheat;TtiOw if the rum duties, which were fixed for Friday night, would be brought on then ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he hoped on Friday to go on with the ram duties, as well as a portion of the estimates. EXPLANATION. Sir H. W. BARRON said that what he stated on Friday night had been misrepresented in the channels by which the debates in that house were made public, and comments had been made on it in one of them. He wished, therefore, to state what ho did say. Ho stated that the property in Eng- land assessed to the poor•law was 62,000,0001., and the rates amounted to 5,000,0001. It was calculated that the poor in Ireland. in ordinary years, amounted to 2,300,000 or 2,400,000. He took them at 2,200,000, at 21. 7s. 6d. each, which was the rate per head paid for every pauper in Ire land, making a total of 5,000,0001. He then said that if the assessment for the poor•law in England was made in the same proportion as woe now about to be done in Ireland, the assessment on 62,000,0001., instead of being 5,000,000/. would be 23,000,0001. He said this was an injustice to Ire land, and taxing her four times the amount in proportion to her property than was done in England. ARMY SERVICE BILL. _ Mr. F. MAULS, in rising tom7r;or the second reading of this bill, said he I. l;fht it incumbent on him, as inasmuch he had brat in and laid this bill on the table of the house without previous notice, now to make a statement of the motives of the govern. ment in bringing forward a principle of this nature. He might have taken the roget of the year 1806, and have introduced the champs from unlimited te limited ser vice, by simply altering the misedales of the Mutiny Act He had not done go, however, Wow it had of late years been the prudes ea mum *ma the Mutiny Bill all pro- visions that moat be eekodated M NON discussions year by year, and to emits tie pwfsiws simply to the law as ap plicable to malateho the and character of the army. He had theologise useissed the soars (Jailing the attention of the hems spNNm7fy te the 'oddest, and to ask it to legis. late upon it Ina &dont sad .spat. manner. He had alio a further oldest is alkyds, that course, because he thought if the alteration is the pried& of the establishment of the army were to be at all, it should not, m was the awe with Mr. Wtrates Bill, be repealed without due notice, and without sufficient experience of its principles. It would be in the recollection of the hones, many members of which heard the discussion on that bill, that within two years of its passing, it was repealed, when no experience had been had as to whether the principle of limited enlist ment was or was net beneficial to the formation of the army. He presumed in discussing this question, no one would now start say objection as to the necessity of a standing army in this country. He assumed that this was a matter which no bon. member would dispute. The vast domestic interests, the widely-extended colonies, and the 'sodden of this coun try among the nations of the world, all demand that there should be kept up s permanent means of proteetion in the army of this country. The question then arose, how can that army be =cot easily supplied in a sufficiency of its ranks, and how can it be made to bear with most ease upon the community from which it must be raised? In this country It was not permitted to have recourse to the mode of ?awaiting which existed abroad. In France there was the system of conscription. Russia bad ber military constitu tion and military laws—but in this °pantry the whore principle upon which the ranks of the army were recruited were volun tary.; and, in order to make that voluntary principle of any sem= at all, it must be acted upon in a manner applicable to those dames from whom recruits were te be obtained. It was prebend that our maim of :waiting was a voluntary THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 23, 1847. AirLAY tnov t WAn Luta. (larsatre).—)lt. LONO•Cillz111, CO Tentley, the leth W MOW kr ken to larhie la a bill oa this "b ght (immure) lint.—Mr. Laroentsros tataorrow (this Wu), to more tor le.ive to bring In a bill alatrouing the • -t or Let Keaton. %normal. SicirooLvnormin (- Mt. noto).—mr. rot m,rts, to. mot row (this day), to wore for • rears of the =tether of parochial schoolmasters La Scotland who hula the aloe of maroon clerk, said the lIIDOWIt of their emoluments. NEW MEMBER. Mr. PSZVECT took the oaths and his se►t as member for Lena. NEW WRIT. A new writ was ordered for the eastern division of Somer. setshire, in the room of Col. Gore Langton. deceased. BEGISTERI,NG BIRTHS, Kr. ISCOTLAND) BILL. MARRIAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL. Mr. FORBES inquired whether there was any objection cm the part of the Lord Advocate to postpone these bills un til such time so the counties would have an opportunity of considering and esprening on opinion upon them ? Mr. F. MAULE said he would tin them for an early day aftcr Easter, not being prepared to say whether the Lori Advocate wished to bring them on before the 110th April But he thought there would be me objection to postpone them until set r the annual meetings of the counties. Mr. HUME hoped the government would consent to send these bills to a committee up stairs. Ile had given notice of a motion to that effect, in compliance with a very strong desire on the subject. Mr. F. MAULE believed that the Lord Advocate meant to resist that ;viaposition. GOVERNMENT PLAN OF EDUCATION. Mr. C. BERKELEY ►sked whether it was the intention of the government to persevere in the system of education which was founded on the minute of council ; and, U se. when the .iiscellaneous estimates would be brought on? Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was the intention of the government to persevere in the plans which were laid down us that minute. (Cheers.) The miscellaneous estimates would be brought forward utter Easter, and the education estimate on Monday, the 19th of April. POOR-LAW AMENDMENTS. Mr. BORTHWICK inquired if the noble lord intended to bring forward the proposed amendments in the poor•law shortly wile• Easter ? Lord J. RUSSELL said that such at present was tbe in tention of government ; but that it ►omewhat depended on the then state of public business. CUSTOMS• DUTIES BILL.—POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL. Lord J. RUSSELL (in reply to a gentian from Mr. Forbes) said he would fix Friday for the Customs' Duties Bill, trusting he would be allowed to take a morning sitting for the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill, in the event of its not being disposed of by that day. THE MILITIA. Colonel WOOD asked if it were intended to have a ballot for militia, or to adopt other means for the defence of the country? Lord J. RUSSELL said that there was a measure on the subject in preparation, but he could not my whether it would be brought In this seetion or not. If not, some other means would be considered. STEAM NAVIGATION TO AUSTRALIA. Mr. SCOTT inquired whether the government intended to il l y any, and what sum, towards the promoting steam no- Mien to Australia and New Zealand r. HAWES quite admitted the importance of the sub ject referred to by the hon. member, but all he could state at present was, that several plans oa the subject were before the noble lord at the head of the Colonial department, but the noble lord had not *sprained any predilection for an one of those plans, although the subject was occupying and would occnpy his attention. He was not prepared to pro• pose any immediate steps for the advancement of publi c money for this purpose, but he thought that the colonies should be prepare( to bear part of the expense (as we un derstood) in promoting this object. REDUCTION OF LABOURERS ON THE PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND). Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN begged to ink the right hon. gen tleman the Secretary for Iroland if the rule for the reduc tion of the number of labourers on the public works in Ire land by 20 per ceat., was intended to apply to parishes In which the roup-kitehen arrangements hut not taken effect ? Mr. LABOUCHERE said, it had been truly stated that a rule had boeu laid down fur the reduction of the number of labourers on the public works by 20 per cent., and which was to corns into operation on the 2dth of this month, but it was not to be applied peremptorily to every part of Ireland independent of any circumstances. It was a general rule, but a discretion was given to the Irish government, by which it might not be applied in particular cases. Mr. HINDLEY begged to suggest that a week's wages should be given in advance to men who were willing to go to farm labors. DUBLIN RATING BILL . . Mr. OROGAN wished to put a question to the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, on a subject which ex cited a good deal of interest in Dublin. He wished to know if it was the intention of the government to take the Dublin Rating Bill out of the hands of the corporation, or if they would themselves support that bill ? Mr. LABOUCHERE was not prepared at present to answer that question, as he should see a depot Ilion from the corporation the day alter to-morrow, and he must defer his answer until after that. EXPORT OF CORN FROM RUSSIA. Lord J. RUSSELL—A question was asked the other night as to whether there was any truth in the report that the Emperor of Russia had prohibited the export of corn from his dominion'. A letter has lately been received from Lord Bloomfield, which contains a notice from the Malian Minister of Finance, stating, in effect, that there was no foundation for the report ; but that, on the contrary, Russia was affording every facility for the exportation of corn. CATALONIA. Mr. BORTHWICK said, that in consequence of the absence of the noble lord the Secretary for I.oreign Affairs he would postpone the question of which ho had Riven notice, relative to a proclamation issued by General Breton is Catalonia, until Friday next. POST-OFFICE. Mr. MOFFATT rose t I put the question to the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer of which he 1 had given notice, six, whether any steps had been taken 1 to prevent public servants employed in the Yost office being ' also employed in a private speculation, called the Post-office London Directory. Last session, grave charges had been made spinet certain officers of the root-office for employing i the public servants of the Poet-office in collecting informs- 1 tion for a private publication of their own. A faint apology wan made for them, and an inquiry was to be instituted. 1 The result of that inquiry had not transpired; but it was understood that the public servants were still employed on Mr. Kelly's Directory. The facts were before the house in two reports which contained grave charges against Mr. Kell-, for it appeared that he had made en inaccurate I return to the house of the amount of his profits. The PM office irectory was a very unsatisfactory publication, and I was 30 per cent. dearer than others of the same kind. The CH ANC E LLO R of the EXCHEQUER said this sub ject had been brought under the notice of the Postmaster- General and the government last autumn. Mr. Kelly had I made a claim for compensation which, according to the in- I variable practice, was valid to a certain extent, and It was I nece.nary to allow him to continue the Past-office Directory I for a time, an he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was unwilling to make a charge on the public for compensation I to him. It had been decided that Mr. Kelly, who bought this work from his predeccenor, and had spent a good deal of money . in mazbinery for the printing of the Directory, and was in partnership with his brother for this purpose, I should continuo to superintend its publication, receiving I no compensation, but he was prohibited from employing the servants of the Post-office : and if any one of them I accepted employment from him he would do so under the penalty of disminsal. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE understood from what bad been stated that Mr. Kelly was no longer to conduct the Poet office Directory at the public expense, and that be was to receive no compensation. He was glad to hear it; for if I anything, he ought to have made restitution. A return had I been made to the house stating that Mr. Kelly's profits were I 1,2001. a year, but he (Mr. Duncombe) said they were 12,0001., and were made by means of the letter-carriers. He under stood that Mr. Rowland Hill had obtained an office in the Poet-office—that he had a room there, and two or three clerks. What be (Mr. Duncombe) wished to know was , what were Mr. Rowland Hill's duties, and what was his salary ? He seemed to be quite powerless, and was not likely to be assisted by Mr. Kelly and Mr. Bokenham and a notice bad been given at the Poet-of ace, that any of the letter-carrier, who had any suggestion. to make to Mr. Rowland Hill should lay them before bim through the headset' their department, and those heads were Mr. Kelly and Mr. Bokenham. The principal complaints were made with relation to the Pal ates Directory, and it was not likely that the men would make such complaints through Mr. Kelly, but they . ought to go direct to Mr. Rowland Hill. To rove the ammo with regard to Mr. Rowland Hill at the Poet-office, and how Colonel Maberly and Messrs. Kelly and Bekenham felt with respect to him. when Mr. Hill left the Post-office in 1842. a notice was given that, as Mr. Hill's office in the Post-office had ceased, any officer holding any communication with him directly or indirectly would be dismissed the service. (Hear, hear.) Hs (Kr. Duncombe) wanted to know what chance Mr. Rowland Hill could have of obtaining information from those heads of depertmentn who had given each a notice ? It wan important that it should be known what were the duties and salary of Mr. Rowland Hill, and what chance he had of improving the Post-office service through such channels. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the answer he gave to the hon. member for Dartmouth must have been understood by his hon. friend. He admitted that, according to the invariable practice. Mr. Kelly had a right to compensation to some extent. AU he wished was that it should be clearly understood that, at present, Mr: Kelly was to be permitted to carry on the Poet-office Direc tory. on his own account, but h e was to be debarred from haring the services of any one in the I'o4n:dike. If, how ever, the Directory wits forcibly taken away from him, he would be entitled to compensation. With regard to Mr. Rowland Hill, it would have been more convenient if his hon. friend had given him notice of the question he had put, because be had made statements relative to what had been done in 1842, and spoken of notices which were given in the Post-office at the present tine, which were no doubt true, but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had had no opportunity of ascertaining whether they were so or not. It was notorious that the business of the Post-office had in ertias& to an enormous extent, and, from a return of the number of letters parsing through the office in the find week in Fibrll3l7, which had been made two days ago, it appeared that, in the lad five years, the num ber had doubled, being six millidns, instead of three. T o bi i beinie so, it was desirable that there should be addle residence, and the government were of opinion ti es no one was more qualified for that duty than Mr. Rowland Hill: early batiks autumn, at the suggestion of the *Ode lord the Postmaster-general, be had been appointed his secretary, not to the Pest-office penally, it being a se • pirate department, at a salary of IN% a year. Mr. BUNCOMBE —What is the salary of the clerks? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was unable to say. If he had had notice of the question he would have obtained the information required by his hon. friend, and if he liked to move for a return on the subject he should have it. There were two or three clerks attached to the department. He had b..eti informed by his noble friend the Postmaster-general two toys ago that he thought most highly of the services of Mr. Rowland Hill, and that since he had held his office he had been the means of further improve ments in the Poe office. (Hear, hear.) Mr. PROTHEROE wished to ask a question of the hon. member for Sheffield, of which he had given hint notice An inquiry had been instituted with reference to the conduct of Meotre. Kelly and Bokenham ; he wished to know if the Postmaster-Gcneral had come to any conclusion on the subject ? Mr. PARKER said the Postmaster-General had before him 32 volumes of evidenci., and he had not yet been able to master so great a mite of matter; as sari u he had done so he would state his opinion. CUSTODY OF OFFENDERS BILL—PRISONS BILL. Lord MAHON wished to ask the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department when it was the intention of the government to go on with the Custady of Offenders and the Prisons Bills ? Sir 0. GREY said that he should go into committee on the bills to-night pro Jor.ml, and take the next stage on Thursday at the early sitting of the house. ABSEKTEEISM—IRELAND. Sir A. B. BROOKE, who was very inaudible, was under good to make some complaint of the statement made by the I hon. member fur Limerick the other night relative to the absenteeism of a noble marquis, whoa, name we were unable to catch. Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN was sorry for the mistake he had made ; but all he had said war that the noble lord in gnu don was occasionally an absentee. CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. Mr. BRIO HT begged to ask a question of the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department relative to a statement which had appeared,—that in the execution of two men at Morpeth on Wednesday last the executioner performed his task in so bungling a manner that it added to the barbarity of capital punishment. He wished to know if the matter had been brought under the notice of the right hon. gentleman, and if steps would he taken to prevent such a thing in future? Ile hod also another question to put to the right hon. gentleman, which he need not answer now, as he had not given notice of it. It was, if he had received any intimation from any of the judges as to the increasing Indisposition of Jurors to find persons guilty where capital punishment would ensue ? lie was induced to ask this from circumstances connected with the trial of three men at York, for what was called the Barnard Castle murder, bat which proved robe the Barnard Castle robbery. Sir 0. GREY had received no information on the subject of what had occurred at Morpeth, but he would direct an inquiry to be made. He had received se intimation from any of the judger as to the indisposition of juries to find persons guilty in cases where capital punishment would foUow, but he had received a communisation from the judge who tried the Barnard Castle case, who had felt it his duty, from the nature of the evidence, to pass the heaviest sentence the law allowed. RAILWAYS BILL. Lord G. BENTINCK begged to ask if it war the inten tion of the government to bring on the Railways Bill before Easter ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that on Friday the Estimates would be taken, and he thought it better that the Railways Bill should be postponed till after Easter. INFLUX OF IRISH INTO LIVERPOOL AND NEWPORT. Sir B. HALL called the attention of the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department to a letter which he had received relative to the influx of frisk labourers into Liverpool. It appeared it was calmed by the fact that when no rents were paid, ejectment' were served on the tenante. From the 13th of January to the 13th of February, the number of these persons in Liverpool was above 30,000, while now it animated to 69,000. He had also a statement from the town of Newport, complaining that the town was filled with these starving creatures, who were coming over in ship load'. He found, from a docu ment that was now on the table, that in Skibbereen the landlords were shipping the labourers to England and Wales. He wished to ark if the attention of the government hail been directed to this, or whether it was a solitary instance ? Sir G. GREY said his attention had been called to the subject, and, from information he had received, he could assure the hon. baronet that this was a solitary instance of the removal of paupers from Ireland. ACCOMMODATION FOR THE HOUSEOF COM system, and when his hon. and gallant friend (Major yAyard) brought forward hie motion last year on this sub ject, he (Mr. Fox Manic) had abetained from giving any distinct opinion upon it; but he promised his honour. able and gallant friend (and the noble lord at the head of the government hod renewed the promise) that the question should receive careful consideration during the recess. It hid been so considered, and it appeared to him (Mr. F. Maule) that, though the system of enlistment was voluntary in name, yet, by practices which were resorted to, it had lost all the virtues of a voluntary system. On looking into this matter, he found that very serious doubts might be entertained as to whether any person who entered into the army ever did so for the purpose of making it • regular profeesinn for life. He found that tome classes of recruits very readily joined the ranks, not with a view to the future, but rather with the view of escaping from the temporary pressure of distress. He found, oleo, that the ranks of the army were very much accustomed to be re cruited by those who were idle and averse to mechanical labour, and who thought that in the life of • soldier they should enjoy that idleness and indolence which were con genial to their dispositions. Ile found, also, that it was but too often the ease that the prodigal joined the army as a refuge from the consequences of his own improvidence, and it too often occurred that lads who hail got into a scrape had recourse to enlistmeet to avoid their temporary masters. With them eaves, voluntary enlistment was at an end, and as to the remaining classes, the system was voluntary only in name, but in reality brought about by the artifices and cajolery of the recruiting minim, and by the party recruited being at the time in such a state as not to be accountable for his acts. It was well known that ail kinds of baits were thrown out to catch the unwary. The beet looking men —men with the readiest address, and who could indulge in those bacchanalian orgies which usually pre ceded the enlistment of a recruit—were selected for recruiting parties. The public•house was the common place to which the unhappy man was taken, and there the bounty-money was held out to him as a temptation to enlist—a temptation which proved in the end most delusive. The man became tempted by a nominally high bounty, which he scarcely ever received, and the disappointment of not receiving which tended more than anything else to disgust him with the service into which he had entered. What was the re- sult ? Why the man often. in the first moment of disap. pointment, deserts. In a few days he is probably retaken, and thus the man who had voluntarily joined, was brought back handcuffed, and in the custody of a party of soldier*. I Again, they had often heard of men maiming themselves in order to unfit themselves for the service. SO much, then, for what was called voluntary enlistment. When it was considered that, by enlisting, a man severed all do mestic ties, when he bad no hope of regaining the domestic fireside which in a moment of bitterness he had left, except by the payment of a high amount of perchase-money, it behoved the legislature, now that the army was receiving more attention from the public, well to consider whether by revising the system of enlistment, it could not put an end to suck a state of circumstances as those which be had described. He (Mr. Fax Made) did not pretend to say that limited enlistment would cure all the evils, but he was of opinion that it would have the effect of curing many of them, and that if accompanied by other measures of im provement, such as those adopted by the military adminis tration of the late government, and those carried on now by the present government, he believed that many of the eviL now complained of would be effectually cured. Already many of the evils had been removed—the punishment of the lash was now scarcely heard of, and he hoped is use would every day become less—(hear. hear) —the moral education and improvement of the soldier was in mune of being broueltt into operation uspeedfiy u possible in the regiments of the line, and in garrisons : and these things would afford lactuoisnents to a higher class of recruits to enter the service, and were • means of rendering it seceptable to the classes from which it meat be formed. (Hear, hear.) What was proposed to be done by this bill was, in the first place, to alter the period for which a man should enlist to a teem of ten years in the infantry, and of twelve years in the cavalry and ordnance. After the expira tion of that period it was proposed that the man should has the option of re enlisting for a second term of eleven years in the infantry, and of twelve years in the cavalry and ordnance, thus making a total service of twenty-one years in the infantry, and of twenty-four years in the cavalry, which are the present terms of the service required before • man becomes entitled to his discharge. He (Mr. Fox Maule) also took powers by this bill by which, if the ten years' infc and twelve years' cavalry service expired when the . ment was abroad, the commanding officer should enabled to detain the man another year, on show ing that such detention was necessary for the public service and if the regiment should be actually engaged in w a rfare he should have power to detain the soldier three years beyond the period for which he had en• listed. At the end of the 21 years' or 24 years' service, as the case might be, it was proposed to give power to the man himself to remain in the regiment if he so thought fit, but be must do so with the consent of the commanding officer, and with an undertaking to give three months' notice of his inten tion to quit the service. Now he (Mr. Fox Mimic) might be asked why he m de a difference between the period of ser vice in the infantry and that in the cavalry and ordnance. The reason was simply this—that in the cavalry and ' , ordnance, the training of a man occupied so much longer I time than in the infantry, and he thought the public were therefore entitled to have a longer period of service in the two first branches of the military establishments, (Hear, hear.) The bill then went on to provide that after the first period of 10 or 12 years, as the case might be, the soldier should have the option of retiring, if he pleased, alto gether from the service ; but, even if he did take out his discharge, it was not intended altogether to lose sight of him, or to throw away the advantages which his training could confer upon the public. It was proposed, if he thought fit to do to, he should enrol himself for a deferred pension—that during the time he should be so enrolled he should serve for 12 days in each year in the same way as the pensioners who had been enrolled under the statutes, 6th and 7th, 9th and 10th of Victoria. The conditions upon which • deferred pension, the amount of which was fixed from time to time by royal warrant, could be obtained were these: If a soldier, after ten years' service, chose to enrol himself on his discharge, it was proposed to require from him 22 years' service in the enrolled companies, to en title him to a deferred pension. Under this arrangement. then, what would be the earliest age at which a man could receive a deferred pension ? He enlists in the infantry at the age of 18 years—be serves there 10 years, which brings him to the age of 28 years; and if at 28 years he enrolled himself as proposed, he must serve for 22 years for 12 days in each year, liable to ether calls, so that at 60 years of age he would receive a deferred pension, of which he would be left in the uninterrupted enjoyment during the remainder of his life. (Hear.) Now this plan, if adopted, would answer a double object. In the first place it would in duce many men to enter the army with the purpose of merely spending the first period of enlistment in its ranks'. They would enter under a conviction that their discharge would take place at a time when they would still be very young men, fitted to enter into any other kind of business, and to turn their minds to agricultural, mercantile, or me chanical pursuits. If they enrolled *emotive* for deferred pensions, they would not only carry into society *me habits of order and regularity which they had learned in their military career, but would also prove a reserved force of great importance if at any time this country should be called upon to defend her shores from foreign aggression. The local companies of pensioaers had already been established to the extent of 13,000 men. These had been regularly in spected by the general officers of the districts, in which they had been called out for 12 days' duty in each year, and after reading the reports of the various general officers last year, he (Mr. Fox Maule) could take upon himself to say, that for all purposes of manning sampans or field duty of not too severe a character, they were as conversant with their duties as when many of them had carried a firelock at Waterloo ; and there were some who hadserved previous to that victory. It struck him that the encouragement of such a force was • matter which the executive government end the legislature should look to most &unlovely. (Hear, hear.) He believed it to be a most satisfactory and certain mode of providing a force of 20,000 to 25,000 men, living in the meantime amongst the civil population, but ready to come under arms in ease any sudden emergency should arise. (Hear, hear.) The bill contained a few regulations with reference to the en rolled pensioners, and this constituted its principal provisions. There were other matters in reference to the provision to be made for the soldier which it was not necessary to include in an act of parliament. He might be asked why he did not extend the privileges and benefits of this intended measure to the existing army—why he made the bill prospective and not retrospective. His first mower was that there was no occasion for parliament to interfere to do se. If it were thought right to extend the principle of this bill to the present army, and thereby to enable every man after serving ten years to have his discharge, it could be done by the authority of the Sovereign in the exercise of the royal pm. rogative on the recommendation and responsibility of the executive government. He, however, confessed that he was not prepared, at present at least, to recommend the adoption of that course. However desirable it might be to make an experiment of a system of limited enlistment, still common prudence would require that there should be some experience of its working, in order to see the extent to which it would recruit the army before any sanction was given either by the authority of par liament or of the crown, to any sudden efflux from the ranks of the army as they exist at present. (Hear, hear.) His right hon. friend who had preceded him in the office he held had given great facilities and encouragement to men of good conduit, both for obtkining extra pay and their discharge at earlier periods than formerly was the practice; and as far as it rested with him (Mr. Fox Knelt), he would take care that all the conditions of the royal warrants issued by his right hon. friend in this respect, should be strictly, literally, and honourably fulfilled to the soldiers new serving in the ranks of the army. He brought this measure forward under • conviction that it would make the service more popular, *stable, and agreeable, to the masses from which recruits must be obtained than it was at present. But in an economical point of view, he further recommended the adoption of this system of limited enlistment. Be it, the necessity and expanse of large recruiting parties, scattered over the country, would be got rid of, and be hoped it would effect the abolition of the ex penditure consequent upon the payment of bounty money. In 1806, Mr. Wyndham declared that he should not con sider the army perfect until the whole system of bounties was abolished, and the profession of arms put on the mane footing es every other trade or calling, and young men were induced to embrace It voluntarily, instead of being bribed into the service by large bostaties. In that opinion he concurred, but he was not sanguine enough to anticipate that the abolition of bounty money would take piste the day alter the bill pained. He believed, however, If advantage was taken of these times of peace, to improve the moral and Intellectual position of the soldier, the army would be broaght to such • condition that its ranks would readily be supplied without recourse to bounty money. Them was every ream why a fair trial should be given to the proposition which be had the honour to submit; there was every reason to anticipate that the system would week well. and for the boa it of the army at lerre. He was quite sure the house woad believe that he would not haveprecosed source of danger, bod or thaliteitb:lokuvd id e ii, t hat jur,, t i h n ere na ex y ist w ed ay,7a sille . vice, the interests of which the government had so sincerely at heart. With these feeling-, and anxious that the house should expecte either its approbation or disapprobation of the principle of limited enlistment, in order that he might proceed to embody it in the future mutiny acts, he now placed the bill before them, and moved that it be read a second time. Sir H. DOUGLAS said that he had already expressed lib decided di-approval of the proposed system of limited eight meat ; he had had a long experience in active service, in the colonies and elsewhere; and having well weighed every word i he had uttered on the former oocuion,and being still of the same opinion, he regretted that he should be obliged to oppose this measure. He was not prepared with any amendment, neither would ho meet the motion fur the second reading of the bill, with a direct negative; he would leave to the government the whole of the responsibility which they seemed disposed to incur—a nsponsibility which he was convinced would lead to an increased tamer in the military department, while, he feared, the efficiency of the service would be ins paired. On the present occasion, he should confine himself to a record of his dissent from the proposed measure, and a statement of the reasons why be disapproved of it. He deeply lamented the changes that were going on on every hand. Those laws which he eonsidered the basis of Eng land's maritime power had been sapped ; and now they were tampering with the efficiency of an army more victorious and renowned than any in the world. He could not concur with the statement in the preamble of this bill; for he thought the change most inexpedient, and totally unjustified by any considerations of policy. The only reason for such a change would be to supply the army more readily with reignite ; but of this there was no need, for recruiting went on well ; the state of the army was mat satisfactory, its condition was fast improving, and degrading punishments were felling into disuse. He denied that this measure would be beneficial, either to the soldiers, the class from which soldiers were taken, or to the country at large. The measure would be both expensive and ill-timed. Had it been brought forward twenty yeen ago, we might now be in a situation to judge of its working; but surely this was not the time to venture on such an ex periment, as it was admitted to be. Diming the last war, had limited service been the rule, the war could not possibly have been conducted with success. If the principle of limi tation was good, why was it not carried out to the whole of the service ? Either there was a consiousness of danger, or a lurking abjection somewhere. Was the noble lord at the head of the government, with hts characteristic courage, prepared to take the responsibil i ty of carrying out this measure through tho whole of the service ? Ne. Then, why introduce it at all, if it could not be made general? It was highly dangerous to establish a distinction between soldiers already enlisted, and those " cit'sen soldiers' hereafter to be enlisted, who, at the end of ten years, were to return to the bosom of their families. All the objections that had been made to the present system of enlistment were fully obviated by the mutiny acts. Of Mr. Wyndham's plan, he would only my that it had been a total failure • it had to be amended in 1808, by the adoption of unlimited enlistment ; and during eight years previous to 1829, when both systems were in operation, 82,000 enlisted under the unlimited sys tem, and only 2,000 under the limited system; thus showing the estimation ia which the two systems were held by the soldiers themselves. Is bad Isla sad that twinkled ea- Hutment led to doserties. /Ids be dialed; dmedsa was more frequently attributable to men lenienny melting causes. In Canada it had actually bus 6.4 itiag the five years before 1829, when both hadted sad tiallmited ser vice existed, that the number of desertions had bra double, amongst those who had enlisted for a limited tees, to than in the other clam. In proof of the fact that the. was an difficulty in obtaining recruits, be might deb that in the twelvemonth ending 31st March, 1846, the sink, boll sow Sion for about 11,000 men, for th4ine and the aroaryi fiat double that number offered themselves, of whom hull were actually examined, 6,143 had been sidsasi, sad 11,420 were admitted. In the present twelve assidas, about 24,000 had been enlisted for the line and the cavalry, sad the proportion of offers and rejections had been pretty nearly the same. The inspection that took place, though strictly a medical one, amounted in fact to a very severe moral and physical inspection ; and men who were the victims of die smation or irregular habits, were sure to be rejected. It was remarkable that, amongst the number he had mew tioned, not • single question had been raised as to the ea liotment being limited or unlimited. No man had gone away on being told that the service was for an unlimited period ; and thus it was perfectly clear that the period of enlistment was wholly immaterial. Under the present sys tem, the soldiers were well-trained, and what was more, they received an education which was of the most essential benefit. It had been his lot to inspect about one-filth of the whole of oar infantry; he had freely entered into conversation with the soldiers, and had, on all occasions, encouraged them to make known their grievances; but never beard a complaint against the system of unlimited enlist ment. It had been said that under the present system, the army was chiefly supplied from the lowest classes of society. It was a fact thit, in the periods he had mentioned, 643 oat of every 1000 were labourers or servants in husbandry ; sad he maintained that these were the best class of which the army could be composed. There were some of higher classes, such sa small tradesmen or artificers, who had been unsuccessful in business, and even licentiates in medicine, professors of divinity, and of law—(laughter);—but he was bound to state that these classes formed the very worst eel diers. It had been alleged that unlimited enlistment wee unconstitutional ; but a much more unconstitutional thing, in his opinion, was the principle of making citiaen-soldiers, which bad, in former lames, been strongly objected to, as dangerous to the welfare of the state. Neither could it be defended on the ground of the national safety; for all ad mitted that an invasion of this country was next to impos sible. Had the system of limited enlistment prenuled in the late war, he was certain it would have operated most injuriously. Every commanding officer knew the value of old soldiers—(hear, hear) ;—and the Duke of Wel lington, when in the Peniseula, had expressed his decided preference for the old regiments. He might safely assert that the success of that war was attribu table to the old soldiers ; and had the system now proposed been then in operation, success would have been lees cer tain. In fact, limited enlistment did then partially prevail. In the campaign of 1909, the army was very short of money the service was from four to twenty-six months' pay In arrear ; the duke urged this repeatedly in his dement's, and his difficulties were exaggerated by a demand of 800,000 dollars, for renewed enlistment of those British soldiers whose terms had expired. Was this plan to be adopted as respected the marines ? If not, it would lead to a most dan gerous discrimination. And if they did adopt the plan in the marines, they would have amongst them raw and sickly lands men. He implored the government to think before they passed • measure of this description. He had no intention to drive the house to • division on the matter, but he would eav, that, if he lived long enough to see a war, and if his apprehensions were then realised, he would hold the government responsible. Would such a measure as this lead to the improvement of the colonial troops, or would it make them higher in character than they were at present? He apprehended that it would not lead to such • result. He objected to this measure, and though he admitted the necessity of having colonial corps, he thought that it would be a arose error to leave the defence of the colonies to colonial powers. Allowing colonial troops into their UMW at home would tend much snore to cement the interests of Great Britain and the colonies. In New Zealand the go vernment were about to combine this unhappy experiment with another. He was of opinion that combining the soldier with the settler would never answer. If they only attended to the barrack accommodation of the soldier, and to his moral education and military discipline, they would have no set of men whose moral charac ter would be higher. When a soldier retired they should not only give him a pension but secure him employment in the various government establishments, such as in the police, &c. His chief objection to this measure was, that it was calculated to lead to a directly opposite result to that which was anticipated by the pvernment. A vast number of soldiers and non-oommissioned officers would take their discharge, and instead of weeding the army of the bad, it would induce the good men to abandon it. With respect to punishment in the army, he hoped that the time for its cessation wu at hand. (Hear.) The state et the military prisons was adverted to the other day, and the account given of them was most satisfactory. The great object of this bill was, and the effect he believed would be, to keep down the rate of pensions. Capt. LATARD.—The object is:to give better pensions. Sir H. DOUGLAS said that it would create a great dimi nution in the aggregate amount of_pensions. Fewer British ooldien would receive pensions. They should not meddle with the machinery of the army ; they should leave the control in the hands of that eminent man (the Duke of Wel lington) who could deal with it best, who formed and fashioned it to his own purposes, who led it in its operation from victory to victory, and by whose means it I , berated Europe from an iron yoke on the plains et Waterloo. It was said that this was an experiment; that it was so was soother reason why he objected to it. In his opinion it would prove unsatisfactory, extremely expensive, and very prejudicial to the interests of this country. Col. REID was of opinion that this measure would not be at all likely to contribute is the welfare and to the moral character of the army of this country. In his opinion it would fail to accomplish the object which it had in view. It would tend to impair the physics] efficiency of the army, and would promote discontent and jealousy among the soldiers. A precisely rimilar manure to this was introduced by Colonel Wyndham, and it was unsuccessful. In 1820, a measure was brought in, affording facilities of obtaining dis charge at any period of service. He thought that that regu lation of itself was sufficient to answer all purposes. It had had the effect of removing from the mind of the soldier all idea of having lost his liberty. All that was wanted to be shown was, that • man had been well-conducted, and at any moment he could obtain hie discharge. By the proposed measure the infantry would be renewed every ten, and the cavalry every eight years, and they would have in fact an army of boys. He dreaded such a state of things. The services of a great number of the most efficient mm would be lost, and they were the men whe had seen some 10 or 12 years' service. If they adopted Mr. Wynd ham's system of limited sentare, they should also adopt his proposed increase of pensions. He would suggest that the minimum pension of • non-commissioned officer should be Is. per day, with an increase of 2d. per day for every five years' service, and that a private, with good conduct matey, should be able to receive a pension of Is. per day. But he would, above all, um the improvement of the moral and mead condition of the soldier The present Lord Grey,greetly to his honour, bad introduced a system of reward for good conduct which had been modified sad improved upon. He hoped such a system would be carried out still further; that the soldier would be made happy and reasonably comfortable, and feel that his country respected him and valued his services. Much of the happiness of the soldiers depended on the treatment they received from their reprise, and he was glad to have that opportunity of bearing testimony to the kind and generous manner in which Um officers con ducted themselves with regard to the men under their charge. He had always found them moat ready to join in any sebum for the improvement and comfort of the soldier. (Hear, hear.) Sir DE LACY EVANS said that allusion hid been made to Mr. Wyndiion's system, but there was a wide difference between the present bill and that m. sauce. The term pro posed by Mr. Wyndham's bill was seven years, and it was only to he extended for six menthe in time of war, but the measure before the house proposed a period of twelve years. And then it was impowihM to take r. Wyndham's mea sure as a test of the effect of short service, for it only en dured eighteen months. In almost all the nations of Europe, the term of the soldier's servitude did not exceed eight or nine years ; and, with reference to the bill proposed by the government, the probability was, that after the term of twelve years had expired, if the troops were well treated, they would re-enlist. Co! Napier—a good authority—bad said that three years was sufficient to perfect the British soldier; and, in addition to that time, there would be nine years for the service of the soldier—the longest period of military service in any part of the con tinent. The honourable and gallant member for Liverpool (Sir H. Douglas) had said that the effect of the measure would be to take away the good and not the had men from the army, but he seemed to have forgotten that by the regu lations of last year those men who had two stripes in proof of their good conduct were to be free after a service of twelve years. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and gallant member had said that the real test of the army was its conduct in the field, and he had referred to the Peninsular war. His (Sir de Lac Emu's) little experience had been in the field , (hear, hear,) and he bad no objection to apply such a test to the bill. It must be remembered that the war referred to only lasted seven years, and the bill proposed that the service should extend to twelve years. It was notorious that the morals of that army were of the lowest character. The Duke of Wellington had said that it was little better than a mov ing hospital, and that was in consequence of disease art-Ing from the immoral and degraded state of the men. Could such an army be called well organized, and ought they to be unmindful to improve the condition of the army in time of peace? (Hear, hear.) The dispatches of the illustrious duke would prove, more than anything else, the ne cessity of improving the army ; and unless the see vies could be made more popular among the body of the people they would get the dregs of ell classes — whether from agricultural districts or the towns—to perform the duties of the soldier. He hoped hereafter we should have a voluntary army, for which recruits might be obtained without the offer of a bounty or the necessity of the oratory or other seductions of the recruiting sergeant. The noble duke at the head of the army had acquiesced in this measure, which was an argument in its favour, and it had not been shown by any of his hon. and gallant friends who opposed it, that twenty-oar years' service had in any degree contributed to our great successes in war. (Hear. hear.) When the bill was in committee he should suggest that it would be de. *liable, under certain circumstances, that it should at once come into operation, for he should be very sorry, if it was a good measure, to see its benefits postponed for ten or twelve years. (Hear, hear.) As to the objection that one effect of the bill would be to make, by a thrift period of service, a large proportion of the population of this country soldiers, he could only say he believed that if such was the result it would be very popular—for he remembered at the time of the Reform Bill that the feeling was decidedly in favour of a kind of national guard, and both in France and Spain, when liberal opinions had been in the ascendant attempts had been made by the ruling powers to put down the national guard. (Hear, hear.) Colonel T. WOOD expressed his disappointment that the right hon. gentleman had not given some of the data on which the present measure was founded. He 'greed with him that a measure of this kind should be one o a perma nent character, but he could not say that the measure of the goverment possessed it : It seemed to him to be a compro mise between two principles. lie preferred the plan of Mr. Wyndham to that of the right hon. gentleman. Mr. Wynd ham proposed that the man should enlist for 7 years, at the termination of which, his pay was to be increased a penny a day, and at the end of 14 years he was to get Lis discharge, and a pension of sd. a day. By the right hon. gentleman's plan, the man was to be discharged after 10 years service, and was then to go on the retired pension list; after 20 years service he was to have 6d. a day pension. It was not to be expected that a man who had served 10 years would re-enlist, unless the hope of a larger pension was held out. (Hear, hear.) The only inducement which the right hon. gentleman held out to the soldier was, that of education. That was an important consideration, but he begged to say ' it was not neglected at present as much as was supposed. He was of opinion that the colonial service would be quite as hard upon the soldier under the right hon. gentleman's as under the present system. Colonel LINDSAY objected to the bill on the ground that there was no inducement held out to the soldier to re-engage himself. He thought that the principle cause of desertion was the debt in which the soldier continued for a considera ble period after his enlistment. He considered that the deferred pension was a boon to those who had served ten years. There was a general feeling in the army that the time of service was too lung and the pensions too small, and he did not think that men would re-engage themselves un less some greater inducement than was held out by this bill, was given to them to do so. Ile thought it was more desirable that the wording of the orders should be more plain, so that the soldiers could easily under stand them—(hoar, hear)—and he was of opinion that a service of twenty-one years, with a good character, should entitle a man to his 10d. or Is. a-day, without making his ability to do further duty the criterion of getting it as was now the case. (Hear, hear.) Colonel SIBTHORPE said that change in every thing seemed the order of the day. They attacked the church end the law, and they attacked physic—(laughter)—now they were going to attack the army. He, however, still reve renced the " wisdom of our ancestors," which was so much deprecated in a reformed House of Commons—a pure House of Commons. The right hon. gentleman the Secretary at NVar wished to remodel even thing, and he talked of the unhappy condition of the sol‘iers. He (Col. Sibtliorpe) was for ten years in her Majesty's dragoons before he came into this refined society. (Laughter.) If he cams into that house unlearned, he generally left it ten time more unlearned, after the long speeches which he was obliged to listen to. (Laugh ter.) lie denied that soldiers were disgusted with the ser vice, as stated by the right hon. gentleman, aid he entirely concurred in every word that had been uttered on the sub ject by the boa. and gallant member for Liverpool. Captain LAYARD said that from the time of is first entering the service be had always felt a deep intersect in this question. In 1842, when he thought it hie duty to propose limited enlistment, Sir Henry Hardinge said the measure was well worth the consideration of the government ; two governments had acted on that advice, and this measure was the result. The hon. and gsllant member for Liverpool (Sir H. Douglas) had talked of a long war, and of the difli. malty there would be in such a case in carrying out the new system. Other countries were not influenced by that a:m oderation ; and within the last two years Austria hail re duced the period of enlistment from 15 years to S. The hon. and gallant officer had accused him (Captain Layard) of beingthfiuenced by a motive of shabby economy. It was the interest of the soldier which be mainly sought, and economy was a fair ground to urge in conjunction with that interest. When the late Secretary at War brought forward leaienilar measure, the gallant member for Liverpool did not oppose it. Sir H. DOUGLAS—I spoke strongly against it when you first brought it forward. On the other occasion to which you refer, I was not in the house. (Hear, hear.) Captain LAYARD was grateful for that admiesion, con sidering that the measure was so important the fact mentioned was worth leering in mind. (Hear, hear.) The hen. and gallant member for Windsor (Colonel Reid), said that young soldiers would run away, and that he had seen them do so at Antwerp. He (Captain Layard) would ask who it was that fought the battle of Waterloo ? The old soldiers who had been engaged in the Peninsula were at that time in America, and the battle was fought by persons who were boys in comparison. Did any of the boys run away on the occasion? hear.) If a man required punishment it could surely he inflicted in a shorter period than twenty-one years. (Hear, bear.) By the measure before the house it was not proposed that a man should actually retire at the end of the period, but simply that, if not happy or contented in the army, he should ban the power of returning to his family. If, a short time ago, a man had asked him whether he would advise him to millet in the army he would have replied " Certainly not." His s e ich no uld for arms ey into c o areythr lhame e S tin c wifriwieelynesouhaeolltlolha.i:Tf.eisedthb 100 ent7b b een g cuu o ut stated t wt ° t ot u t fi c 118 o:thtt all, are:f mi ss o n ' t mei about r e t ; tth: • e. r th e yyesnUn;':: bo unt y your atnowyh q uan tit y:h to for our th against you • find the mor tality in the Leeward Islands 85, in Jamaica 143, while the total number of deaths since 1817 has been 21,421, and they will give you salt provisions for five da ys in the week ; the old soldiers who fought in the Peni nsula have no medals and no honours, though their bodies are covered with them ; there is a deductio:4; o 2er cent. from the hard-earned pension ; the cases of oo punishment amount to nearly 4,000 in throe years; lastly, they enlist you for life ; on all these grounds I advise you not to take the shilling." (Laughter.) A very different future was now presented to them; and If the same question were now put to him, he would advise the party to enlist, seeing that most of the evils which he had stated bad been in a great degree removed. When he first came forward in that house as a military reformer, he was told that he should not be listened to, and that Sir Henry Hardinge would jump down his throat. He was glad to say tlut Sir Henry was too wise a man to do any such thing. (Laughter.) There was one point to which he wished to call the atten tion of the First Lord of the Treasury. The right hon. baronet the member for Taraworth stated, in reply to a question from that noble lord, in 1842, that, whatever might be his opinion respecting the proprietyr of allowing the Com mander-in-Chief (then the Duke of Wellington) to have a beat in the cabinet, he was certain it would not make any difference in the selection of officers for promotion. Now, it had made a difference ,• and it was the feeling outride of that house that it hal. Officers, supporters of the Whig government, bad been in that house for twenty years, with. out promotion ; while men who had been su of the right hon. Inning for oily 9er 10 yeas, were 'vatted arank pa ren t is eoralf th li s rleteet :iFit t4x"likw w: Lftl:weiraf7anioe,th6r7tht.:•:"lsitsinalitiLed:rylwtatrini.reiawtoanait"to the V wimilletheir luid guisilv do7 fe e iali°nalt n iew o 7/11% ge bIl W it hi d n on th e e fo l r ait yean year btfore bea . ea H *9 e fe Wi lt bvu t it.t ha th" 11P41 ;ti d ii an e n re e dillkealties is the case, but he hoped they would be exa mined into, and overcome.—The bill was then read a second tine, end ordered to be committed. POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL. On the t.• ler of the day for going into committee on this bill, Lord G. I; ENTINCIi aid it would be in the tecollection of the house. that the Secretary for Ireland recently stated that there ass no pessiinlity of obtaining correct returns of the deaths is Ireland. lie (Lord O. Bentinek) had received 'event letters from Protestant and Roman Catholic clergy ' men, eh. wing distinctly that the right hon. gentleman was entirely mis•aken, and that such information might be had with tolerable accuracy, Oue of these gentlemen, the Pro testant incumbent of Newtownharry, in the county of Wee , ford, expreseing his surprise at the right hon. gentleman's statement, said that, Recording to a canon law of the church, the clergy were obliged to return an accurate copy of the parish registry of deaths ani marriages. If there were any difficulty respecting Ronson Catholic clergymen, there were in Ireland 8.0 medical officers attached to dispensaries, not one of whom, he was informed, were likely to refuse their aid in procuring correct information en the subject. The noble lord, who spoke in a very low and conversational tone across the table, and was very inaudible, was understood to conclude by qutstioning the course pursued by the govern resent in net supplying food for the people of Ireland in pro portion to the &stress. Mr. LABOUCHERE hoped the house would not expect him to follow the noble lord into the subject with which he had concluded his speech with regard to the policy of the government in relation to the supply of food for the people of Ireland. He would only protest against the assumption that the great loss of human life was to be traced to that policy. Every day's experience convinced him that it was a wise policy not so to interfere with the supply of foal as to check private trade. It was owing to that course that now, by th e exercise of the energy of private trade, food was pouring into the country, and prices falling ; whereas, if the government had clone any thing to discourage it, no efforts of theirs could have effected what was now being done. In Cork there were no leas than 100 vessels with cargoes of food, and sing par importations were taking place in Galway and Limerick, and he rejoiced that the government had not yielded to the cry which would have unlaced them to adopt a different policy. The result was, that now, when they were beginning the arduous du'y of assisting the relief committees to supply food to the people, they started with the depots of the go vernment lull, while at the same time there was in the granaries mad wore-houses of private merchants immense quantities. With regard to the returns of the comparative mortality between this year and the last, he of to them. It was not because he had auy desire to conceal the the impression on hi+ own mind that the mortality had greatly increased. It woe not on that account that be objected to them, but because he believed it was im possible to obtain accurate returns, and he was unwilling to grunt what would prove vague and inaccurate one.. What ever could be depended on fir accuracy was not refused. There had been granted a return of the coroners' inquests, and also one from the constabulary. But the noble lord asked for a Tenant of the comparative return of the mortality generally, and lie (Mr. Labouchere) had applied to those seemlier@ of the Irish government. who were best informed on the subject, as.il he was assured that there were no mate. riala fur supplyin,; each returns with an accuracy that could be depended on. The noble lord said that the Protestant clergy kept a register of deaths, it being obligatory on them by the cannon law to do so. But he (Mr. (thouchere) was very much deceived if that law was generally °hurry], for the only penalty fora neglect of that duty was, that the bishop might proceed against the clergymen and churchwardens as ' contemners of that law. With regard to the Roman Catholic clergy, he had asked several hon. members of that house if they kept any registry which would enable them to make a satisfactory return, and they said they did not. A. there was no registry, therefore, either by the Protestant or Catholic clergy, there could be no satisfactory returns, and this was tha only reason for his refusing them. Mr. J. O'CONNELL hoped that the granaries would be opened freely, go to check the progress of destitution, for there was no seed ; the wheat was said to be failing, whilst the lose of life WWI excessive. The Catholic clergy were quite unable to furnish materials for these return,. Mr. F. SHAW said that the canon law was well observed by the Protestant clergy. The Ecclesiastical Comminsioners provided a form, end there was a complete return of the number of their on n flocks over whom they performed the ceremony of burial. Lord J. RUSSELL could not but make some reference to the statement which had been made by kis noble friend the member for Lynn, especially as he had made it more than once, and evidently under a misapprehension. He said he (Lord J. Russell) had pledged himself to the corn specu laton not to interfere with their trade, and ne went on to show by calculation the deficiency of provisions, and made a comparison between what had been provided in the last and the present year. He (Lord J. Reseek did not so pledge himself to the corn speculators, Lei having considered, in conjunction with his colleague, what it was beet to do on the failure of the potato crop, be came to the conclusion that it would be the hest course net to interfere with the speculators, for reasons which he hail stated before. The noble lord was mistaken In eappoeing that the lute government intended entirely to feed the peo ple they made provision for their wants, and they im ported Indian corn into Ireland and made it &common article of food. He (Lord J. l'iuseell) conceived that in so doing they performed a great public service. (Near, hear.) That that step could net be repeated, because it would have been asked if the government intended to compete with the trader, and some answi r would have been necessary. He conceived that the purchases of Indian corn made by the government wire for the purpose of introducing that food into Ireland, and not with the vies to the government's feeding the people. He bad never heard say member of that government say so, or that Indian corn was purchased with that view. If the government had undertaken to feed the people, it would not have been possible for the statement to be made which he had received from Cork. "Cork, March 10.—Sir rime the 12th imitant, the arrivals of Indian corn at this port have been unprecedented. There are • at present MO Ran, containing as aggregate amount of breadartugh not short of 20,000 ton., afloat in our harbour. An I before advised you, the stock. of deniers he: e have been largely areumuhting for the lard month, and it in now apparent that they have gone overshot the mark in .peculation . Maine, which a month doer brought freely 181. per tun, being this clay offered U. smell parcels at LSI., and I shall not be nurprisel to see It monidcrably lower, if any grAd pruport.on or the present arrivals be forced upon this market, which to by ao mealn.• improbable. Mill, some parties rontinor to hold out, and would bare it appear that the ilepre..ion is only temporary: I Knot, sinctircly t that they may he minlaken. I regret to add ha thin cheering unellitecom that fence m nporwribigeopidly twee OrnOnfrot aU aliases; nor few hospitals are crowded to excess, and over 300 eatm ewes in the most populous parto of the city tarots obtain mimis.ion from want of room. P.S. Since writing the foregoing our media Int-wager has returned from the Cove of Cork, and reports the number of arrival, chiefly within the but 24 hour an even more ninincroun than I sap powd, but the weather being thick and stormy, it has not yet Mee possible nee use to ascertain I ice !intoner. The reason of this wee that Indian men had been imported from America, and so great an amount had arrived that it would be sold until the harvest, at lower prices than would have been the case if the government had undertaken to supply it. Lord J. MANNERS begged to ask the right hon. gentle man (Mr. Labouehere), if, :titer whet hail been said by the right hon. gentleman, the Recorder of Dublin, he would make any further objection to the returns. His noble friend asked for that portion of them which could be ob tained from the registry kept by the Church of Ireland, and there could be no doubt that it was properly and universally kept. Mr. LABOUCHERE was surprised that the noble lord had adduced the argument of the right hon. gentleman as being in favour of the motion of the noble lord the member for Lynn. What the noble lord asked was • return of the comparative mortality of this year and the last, and the right hon. gentleman said that the Protestant clergy did register the deaths of their own congregations, bat that would not be a satisfactory return. If the noble lord attached any importance to obtaining a return of the deaths of the Protestants, be would write to Dublin and see if it could be obtained. Mr. V. Sl' CART said he had received a letter from an inspector, who stated that in Clonmel, in three parishes, the public works were to he stopped on the 20th, but no preparations bad been made fur the change. if that was so, great suffering must occur—no lees than 2,000 persons went to the workhouse at Dungervan en Thursday last. lie thought it the duty of government not to make such a change till some arrangement had been made. Mr. J. COLLETT begged to ask a question of the eke* hon. gentleman the Secretary for Ireland. Ile had wen it stated that the government had sent M. Soyer to Irelan4 and that he had engaged 100 persons at an expense of £lOO a day to distribute soup to the poor. He begged to know if this expense was incurred by the public, and whether the government had reason to believe the experiment would succeed ? Mr. LABOUCIIERE replied that it was true M. Serf had gone over to Ireland, and had been in communicating with the relief committee, who considered his suggestions extremely valuable. With regard to the question of expense, hie impression was, that the cost of M. Soyer'e first experi ment had been defrayed out of a sum collected by3ivago subscription ; but the experiment having been entire sew eeesful his plan had been since adopted by the reli ef com mittees. In reference to what had fallen from his Dm friend behind him, he could assure the house that the ia verament were fully aware that do what they would the transition from dependence on the relief works to mess legitimate employment must be attended with great distrait but no exertion on the part of the executive or the relief c .mmiesioners in Dublin would be wanting to being the mew system into operation u speedily es possible, and k terminating the employment on the relief works every means would be taken to prevent as far as passible the evil consequences his hon. friend contemplated. Mr. D. BROWNE hoped that government would, by• timely expenditure in providing wed for sowing the pt when the landlords did not supply it, interfere to the direful calamity which must result, not to Ireland oar s but to this country next year, should the ground remain sr cropped for want of seed. (Heir.) In answer to a suggestion from Captain HARRIS, white was inaudible, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rated, thld orders had been given to discharge from the rolief wain those who were employed upon them the moment other err ployment offered, in sowing the ground, or otherwise. Mr. DISRAELI was anxious that a wrong Ottertail** should not go forth to the public es to the oomparesise efforts which had been made to provide food for the starving people of Ireland by the present government sod that which preceded it. When the present government ceded to power, 94 corn depots were established in Irelands which were reduced by them to 24 : and not only that, foe he found that lathe months of November and December yernment bad distributed 638,032 lbs. of meal; while, in Mee presioas mouths, June and Jaly, during which the synod; of the forester government was in operation, the quantal so meal distributed amounted to 25,2-57,000 Hsi It won ell very well for the noble lord to tell them that the herbals , . Ireland were now crowded with erects laden will golloe end that grain was every day coming is from abroad the question was, were the government not now taking care of a s stable when the noble friend (Lord G. b a d been a great deer. of the Ma for affor been reduced; and, tl C nr t ailinnrio l i t t ri El i h t . t ed" orek indesithaptglugathgnvectt,licitihiltikicitiftipoutwcenpielnwNytmae:rerp:nbashuckisdaneld :deetawnktieleluinpth'ileahliel'li n depots bad been root ever, was that the ar been so successful in ia of grain into Ireland been issued Filne Ja rations issued were of the course the s read a letter from the entertained strong ( . 10,1 from his own experien, Send result of the plan in providing food for t I beg to take this oft justness tbe vieire tab to the mode of providing ft portunitmealwitneming t insane I knew of Sol. ha below met Wife, and r the retail drab.", who give up selling, mom makeup for tort time; ar obtained at the cheep deg were left in a worse ear" t my own cam, although I I the plan, I have limn the I the regulation of the Com of • servant on toy land theme, sad other pro ebilliag (eleePt the re a r: ). teP7 aadding 41 a-!'... espenee, sad provided to and for the person who family), wages to the amoi sage to the neighteurhoo direction mound me the; thud 'old at a for (nappo stopped the privete des) the country; and in b higher is the neighbourlic I "adder these facts co cussed. (Ilem, hear.) Mr. P. HOWARD' it was not poosible to I of food, in the form o 'rising from the want use would be avoided. The CHANCELLC that already considorat out, and (as we under, The order of the di solved itself into eom chair. —.... • Clause 3 wu agree Clause 4 being put. Mr. G. A. HAMILT of which wu to take pointment of relieving meets in the poor-law ( The amendment sea Mr. M. I. O'Connell, Stafford O'Brien, and Grey, the Chancellor of After a short discuss. Mr. HAMILTON • clause was age. ed te. Clause 5. Medical oil Clause 6. Relieving until the neat meeting Mr. HAMILTON m the relieving power to Mr. W. S. O'BRII samndment la - r7V - 73. CRAWF wonld be • bad submits occasion great trouble t vernment would retain After a few words from Pitt% SHAW thought some authority interpose the guardians. Sir G. GREY said t signed to meet the cue but its effect, in reality, of relief in such Teo, th After a short disci;vi , Roes, Mr. Grogan, Mr necessity of clergymen a of guardians), Sir. R. took part, The clause was ureic Clause 7, providing r husband or parent, was Mr. VESEY moved to the effect that no vi the workhouse without a week, unless with tin sioners. Sir G. GREY oppoee Mho ground that it wou Mftal by the previous Mr. Saaw and Mr. edition of the proviso. The motion for the a ptived, and the clause Clauses 8 and 9 were Lord J. RUSSELL notices on the paper f postpone them, in °rat proceeded with. The CRAIIIAILN thr leave to sit again. CUSTODY On the motion for th Mr. E. DENISON transportation was to 1 alderstion cf the house Lord J. RUSSELL the consideration of tb not raise the question. Sir J. GRAHAM ob had strongly felt the nt of transportation. He deration of the questior he was to do so except the government persist Thunday nilrning, he he could not but feel th with serious inconvenic Sir G. GREY said h convenient day to mem Mr. HENLEY thou not to be discussed at a After some further o Sir J. GRAHAM as (this bill being pasn•d tunity after Easter for in a distinct form ? Sir G. GREY said h most desirable, and sa Place ; but it was fait silent had no measure i rare it. The bill was then col The house adjourned ORIGIN OF SAr institutions (says a ei one of the many good and philanthropic hod, was established at To' Wakefield—a name v min. The success, of the " Reports of tea of the Poor,") eau children bringing the consequence a more when a regular avir formed ' for the prof bonrers and servants. nix trustees were ai Bible for 1001.; and I mutated, a new trustee luwed on every Ws. vi hands of the trustees. each month in the fun This was the uc , f set on foot. It sr remained for many ye to exietence. In 1813 W. Forbes), an active _,Eioninty, having accil Ina Tottenham Bs were at once ndop similar institution in ~~keepia~ the em I f tlinbthe y i a ti an lzti i e ul ts fa i B e i e n r t d mrth ee u e(l t u 4uP° i ita wp o nni country. It was not, li:::::: 34 TE . b e l Pawder:lia l g o y E l f hanßen T b p edi u d H ia n :: : :led • f:A T r m iri ß t: e l:h E t ,, laL°etea t i: spn Y 'll' Ceapondent of the Lc 'tune* of misunderetan and the critics. Ru,t, ''ididnew several free sooner had he done thi th . ,_e consequences. T weessed a note to the c any further attacks lip be has received.