The Express. — London, England, 1851-07-05 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 5, 1851. ---------- ..._ tice of it the day before, he could have immediately stated to the house some information on the subject. Sir B. HALL observed that it was a notice for Friday. Lord J. ItUSSELL said he knew it was so, but that was what he complained of. The evident presumption which would be drawn from the notice of the hon. gentleman, and which mild be drawn both by that house and the public, was that certain bishops were assigned certain sums as their net income, that they received further WWI and had not paid over what was due e eccliastical commissioners. Now he begged to state to , without entering into particu lars as to the dilferent bishops, that the arrangement made was this, that when the ecclesiastical contrnis,i in ,rs considered the subject it was their opinion that it would not be ad visable to fix a sum for each bishop, as that, thy thought, would make it ton much resemble the salary of en office, and was not a fit mode of dealing with the income of the bishops, Whether that was a right opinion or not he would not now enter into. They therefore came to a de termination that certain sums should be paid over by cer tain bastions, and that certain sums should be ree , ired by others. 'Eight thousand pounds were to be paid to t h e Bishop of Durham, 6,0001. to the Bishop of Salisbury, and so on; and the bishops were to take the risk of the,: sums exceeding or falling short of the sum that was proposed to them for their income. The consequence hal been that some of the bishops had received more than was calculated by the commissioners, and that others had received less. Sir B. HALL said, what he had eated on a former occa sion, and - 'hat he had given notice of, was that certain in ' comes were assigned to the sees, and that the bishops had received larger incomes than were assignol, and that where the bishops were to pay over certain sums to the ecclesiastical commissioners, those sums had nut been paid ; and he wished to know whether legal proceedings had been taken to force them to pay Mr. 11ORSMAN rose, and was pmeeeding to address the house, when he was met by loud cries of " Order." Mr. B. OSBORNE thereupon moved that the house do siren. r. lIOIIRMAN seconded the motion. lie said he had, on various occasions, endeavoured to get information both from the government and the ecclesiastical commissioners, and s ubsequent experience had shown not only how difficult it was to get it-- Mr. W. PATTEN rose to order. Ile had protested the other night against this mode of raising a debate by moving the adjournment of the house; told time house then ex pressed itself very decidedly against such a p roceedin g . The hon. gentleman would see that if that practice was to be continued, there would be an end to order in their pro ' ceedings. I Mr. tIORSMAN—I conceive the hon. gentleman is out of order. The noble lord has made a statemeut. The SPEAKER—The hon. gintleman, to make himself in order, must speak to the question. Mr. HOUSMAN said it was a question of fairness. He appealed to the right hon. gentleman (the Speaker) whether the '- - --' '-- he made a statement with ..e noble lord main ordei . when ...atm a staimae— reepect to episcopal incomes. (Question.) The hon. mem ber fur Newark might call " Question" as long as he liked, but it would have no effect on him. The point he wished to state was this, and this only, in reply to what was stated by the noble lord, that they who moved for these returns complained that the arrangements under the act of partia -1 ment as to episcopal incomes was not carried out ; and when they asked why, they were entitled to have an answer; and when they asked for returns, they were entitled to have them. Lately he asked a question respecting the estate of Ilortield, and he re ceived an answer from the chief commissioner which was incorrect. 1 1 Mr. 11. DRUMMOND requested to be allowed to say one sentence as a near re:tallest rod intimate friend of one of the noble prelates, who he thought had been belied. Ile did not complain that any notice had been given in that house, but he did complain of an assertion being made when there was nu power iu any person according to the rules of the louse to deny it. Mr. GOULUURN said lie felt very deeply the inconve nience of permitting a discussion of this kind, and if he had followed his own feelings, he should not have answered the observations that had been made, but the hon. gentleman had charged him with giving a false answer. Mr. 11ORSMAN—Incorrect. Mr. GOULBURN said the answer he gave was cornet. lie stated that he had not any knowledge of the terms on which the lease of Ilortield was given. The hon. geneeinan in an under tone, then said something about copyhold coat mission, and he, nut remembering at the time what had been the nature of the communications between the copy- I hull commissioners, with whom he had no communication, made an inquiry on the following day what was the effect of it. Wishing not to do that which he should scorn to do, he stated to the hon. gentleman the whole of the circum• stances, and stated that thell. had been that communica- I don. He thought, th,refore, the hon. gentleman had no leight to tax him with having given an improper answer. After a few words from Sir It. leotts and Sir B. Hatt, The motion for the adjournment of the house was put sad negatived. MERCHANT SEAMEN'S ACT. In answer to Sir 11. WILLI/I:OMIT, LABOUCHERE said he intended to propose the second reading of this bill on Thursday morning. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL. Lord J. RUSSELL moved that this bill be read a third time. Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he should have moved that it be read a third time that day six months, but as it had been suggested by the right hon. gentleman the member for the Liiivenity of Oxford that it would be more corive nient to take the discussion on the third reading, after the amendments had been dispelled of, be should yield to that eu tfrItTiNOLDS said he could not consent to the third reading of this bill of pains and penalties. The noble lord at the head of the government, who was the author of the bill, even after the lapse of live months, could out tell what shape it was to assume within the next 24 hours. Under these circumstances wiser men than he, and men of more experience, had advised met there should be a division un the third reading, inasmuch, us by the forms of the house, if the noble lord was to move that the amendments, as they were railed, of the hon. and learned amber fur Abingdon be expunged, he could nut move that till after the third reading. They therefore gave their consent to the third media , but it was the kind of consent that an oyster gave to be opened. (Laughter.) The question that the bill be read a third time was then put and agreed to. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the first amendment he had to gropu c was in the second clause. lie had stated pre viously it was nut his intention to propose any amendment in the preamble as it now stood, or in the first clause as it sow stood. In the second clause there was an amendment introduced without a division, and that amendment was almost, if not quite, the same in terms with an amendment proposed on a precious day, when they se, re going into committee on the 6th of June, by a hon. baronet, with re 'to par- - ' any ball from Rome, w hich was rejected . . intro& by t The __- then crivided. For land J. 'tundra proposition l2l Against it. --it Majority against. On returning to the gallery, strangers were again ordered to withdraw, and a second division took place, on the question, as was understood, " that the bill do pass," the result of which was: For the question Against it Majority for the bill 217 On the question of the title of the bill, Mr. GRATTAN said that he regarded the bill as affect ing the Roman catholic marriages and the civil peace of the people of Ireland. Ile, therefore, thought that its title was au improper one, and begged to submit that it be entitled " A Bill to invalidate Roman Catholic Marriages and to i discourage the Roman Catholic Religion in Ireland." if they were to withdraw their military and p olice force from I Ireland this bill would not stand for a single moment. The people of England had a right to the enjoyment of civil and religious liberty. Such was the It.. and constitu tion of this country. That was the meaning of the revolu tion of 168.8. Why did they not follow the same principle with respect to Ireland? If the government introduced this hill fur the purpose of creating disunion amongst the Irish people, he rejoiced to say that they signally failed in that design, fur the Roman catholics and protestants did not show that animosity towards each other which the acri monious speeches of members in that house were calculated to produce. What right had they to peas such • bill ? Let the Roman catholies be Turks if they (I.aughter.) It did not shot anything of the real spirit of religion to propose 'such a mea sure. ilis wish was to see the people of the two coun tries united in heart, but how was it possible for the Irish people to become parties to such a union as long as they were treated with such marked injustice, and as long as such distinctions were made in the legislation for the two I countries ? (near, hear.) The hon. gentleman concluded I by moving that the bill be entitled,a bill to prevent the free exercise of the Roman catholic religion in Ireland. (near.) Mr. REYNOLDS seconded the motion. Sir J. 6 HALLAM said it was his wish that no circumstance might ever occur which would shake the union between Eng land and Ireland—(hear,) —and although he was of opinion that the commencement of this affair was unfortunate, yet, if possible, the termination of that evening appeared to him mare unfortunate still. Ile took part in two divisions with his noble friend, in endeavouring to resist certain al tcrations in the bill, which had lawn termed amendments, giving more stringency to the measure than her Majesty's government thought either safe 'or desirable. (near, hear.) Certainly under the arrangement which had been made, he did expect that a full and ample opportunity would be given fur one more discussion on the principle of the bill before it was sent up to the other house of parliament. (near, hear.) lie must say that the Speaker gave every member of that house the fullest op portunity of expressing his opinions—eheers)—but he took blame to himself that under the particular circum stances ha did not propose the adjournment of the debate, in order that a still further opportunity might be given—he would not say to those who were surtirised at the undue spend with which the Speaker put the question, hut those who, being absent front the house, could not at the time take part in the discussion. lie thought the circumstances altogether unfortunate. Still, ho would suggest to his hon. friends, with whom he fully agreed in resisting this hill, Chat there would he more dignity and propriety in not taking • divisive on the title of the bill. (near, hear.) lie wished them to recollect that the further progress of this bill, in its altered shape, was in reality under the guidance and subject to the responsibility of her Majesty's government. The responsibility was lienvv, and he was sure the government would feel it to be so. 'What this country owed to the defence of its civil liberty on the part of the noble lord at the head of her Ma jesty's government, even after all that had passed with re spect to this bill, ought to inspire not Engtand only, but I Ireland also with a hope that in this last resort religious liberty would still be safe under the protection of the noble lord iand certainly , under under u c o eir l e il umstanees, if his hon. 1 his amend - . 64 the appeal of the Archbishop of Florence, both of which appeared in the Express of Tuesday last.] Now he would appeal to hun. moot-era whether year+ sgo, before we hail der iveil ourselves of the aafeguanl which existed by law --(cheers)—we should have been exposed to these repeated aggressions and encroachments? (Cheers.) But we had disarmed ourselves, and now were constantly subject to repeated attacks of this ile - wription. (Rear, hear.) It was clear that the Pope took advantage of our ;unfortunate divisions to put forward hi+ pretmsions ; and he (the hon. and learned member) called upon the house ere it was too late to adopt such a course a. would put an end to the dangers by which they were surrounded. (Cheers.) If they tailed at the last moment it could only be from the circumstance that the guardians of our pro ' t e stant constitution hail neglected their duty; they I might depend upon it, that if they did not unite in raising some barrier against these advances they would always be subject to papal encroachment. (Lead cheers.) The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said his hon. and learned friend hail shown the wide distinction which existed lwtween the principle upon which the bill hail been framed, and in which his own elatlK9 had b,ea submitted to them. The last observations of the hon. and learned gentleman plainly showed that in his opinion they had gone toe far in granting the Relief Act of 1829. (Loud cheers.) Ile (the Solicitor-General) rejoiced to hear that cheer, for it made the matter now sufliciently (Cheers.) The bill recited, tint in the preamble, and after wards at the suggestion of the hon. and learned member for Mielburst, by a declaratory clause, that the act which hail excited so much indignation, was an infraction of the exist ing law, of the law as it CILI4CII after as well as before the net of 1829. (Cheer') Then havin?, .t.t.a the indecent violation which had taken place in the law by the rewript 'which had been brought into this country, the bill pro ceeded to provide that the very same restrictions which ex isted in the act of 1829, should be extended to Met which were not in existence at the passing of that net, which were not now, and which perhap+ never might be, in existence. There were two points involved in the matter. On the one hand, the dignity of the crown which had been violated was as•orted by the strung &els ration of the bill, which had been carried by an enormous majority; and at the same time the bill would secure intact the act of 1829. (Rear, hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman had in no way whatever added to the strength of the existing law, viz., the act of Richard II.; and with respect to the hon. gentleman's question respecting that statute, lie had no hesitation in saying that he did not think it would be desirable to take procceilino upon it. The act of Elizabeth, however, was still in full force, ex cept as far as the penalties were concerned ; and by that act the offence would be a mifelerneanour. (Rear, hear.) The bill before them was intended merely to prevent the evasion of the act of 1829, and to prevent a person escap ing by calling himself Archbishop of NVeatminiter, instead of Archbishop of Canterbury. (Ileac, hear.) But the hon. and learned gentleman had proposed another Sue of 1(0)1., but that addition he looked upon as quite futile, although very vexatious. (Cheers.) With respect to the appeal to the Italians for the new cathedral in Lon don, he really could not sec how the clause could touch that. Sir F. TRESIGER.—I did not say it would. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL , then did not understand Ma hon. and learned friend's object in motioning it. (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he considerial the clause would be quite useless, but, that tieing at the same time Hlllieleated to irritate, it was very objectionable, and he should, therefore, oppose its retention in the bill. (('heers.) Mr. ROEBUCK rose amidst howl cries of "divide." Hu was sure that however impatient the house might be, and however critical the house, they would not wish to hurry the question to a division, even though dinner should wait. (- Hear," and a laugh.) lie did not regard the question as a mere religious one, but looking at it as a legislator, he did not scruple to say that one more mischievous never was submitted to the house. (Cheer+) Ile regretted to hear the hon. and learned member for Abingdon address himself to stile prejudices and endeavour to drag back the public mind to th7 . 7l7 . f a ro rc m hi se , :lick it had so long been emancipated (Cheers.) Re had talked about the insults offered to this country by the Pope and gaud to procueing _ by 133 to 129. rhe objection to the elamei duad woo atatell by his honourable and learned friend the • if • -- mate it a sub the Archbishop of Florence. .Now allithe poor ,nbishop had eic was to ark his peopl•. to prq for this country ; and rose littilrl friend would take his advice, he —.. not area _ scent to a division, but acquloace iu the bill's going up to the birds : (Hcar..) Attorney-General, who said they ject of penalty to obtain a bull, and again im posed another penalty for assuming the title that was, in effect, making two penalties for the same offence ; and that ho (Lord John Russell) believed to be perfectly true as regarded that part of the bill. But there was another part of this amendment which related to the pub 'Minion of any bull. Now, with regard to these words ho imagined they would make subject to a penalty any per on who should publish any reseript in a newspaper ; and that would not he an offence which they ought by law to pre-, scribe. With regard to the said offence of procuring' a rt.-script it would be very unlikely that evidence would be obtained that any person had procured a retscript. It was therefore that he judged it better to leave out these words.' The noble lord concluded by moving to leave out in the ; second clause, after the words " any person" in the 27th line all the words down to the words "any person" in the I ' :Cud line. Sir F. THESIGEII said the noble lord hail certainly dealt with the amendments which he felt it to be his duty to submit to the consideration of the house with his usual skill and dexterity. A division having taken place on one of his amendments which related to the preamble, and there being a considerable majority in its favour, the noble lord took a second division on au amendment in the first clause, and was defeated by a large majority; and the noble lord anticipating that if he continued the contest he mould meet with a greater defeat drew off his forces, and promised that he would renew the engagement hereafter. Now the noble lord had not extricated himself from the state of embar rassment in which he hail placed himself, but appeared to hint to have plunged himself deeper into it. For what had the noble lord agreed to ? He had agreed that it should be declared by the legislature that all briefs and rescripts which had been heretofore issued for the pur pose of creating archbishops and bishops of pretended sees should be deemed uplawlid and void. That was what the the Pope had only endenvoired to I.- o money to ....no a ' cathedral. Woo this any more than was done every day by the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Fureign Parts ? We had an alliance with the Emperor of Turkey, and he appealed to the hon. gentleman exactly opposite (Sir R. Inglis), whether he would not con.i.ler a mission to that country a laudable object? If the missionaries endeavoured to force their religion on the Turks by force of arms they would, of course, he wrong; but they appealed to their intellect. Thoy had no power over them except over their minds, and he would ask what other woo the power of Rome in England ? (Cheers) As far no regarded his own mind the Pope had no power at all, but he had no reli gious prejudices. (Laughter.) 'these were little points which however powerful, did little ben. fit either to their morality or their religion. (Cheers.) The Solicitor-General said that the clause did not alter the 1,11; but the hon. member for Abingdon did not agree with Min, and the latter hon. member was right as to the matter of fact. (Rear, hear.) It would make the bill much nioro stringent and mischievous. (Cheers.) lie had always thought that the right honourable and learned gentleman (Sir F. Thesigcr) was a follower of the late eminent and lamented statesman, Sir It. Peel; and if ever there was a government which marked its sense of the total impossibility of govern , ing this country on the old principle of exclusion of the catholic religion, it was that of the Duke of Wellington ' in which Lord Lyndhurst was Chancellor, and Sir R. Peel led the House of Commons. No three men were more strongly pledged again.t catholic entamipatiou ; nevertheless, they came down and told parliament that the time had come when there must be a total change of policy with regard to the catholic religion. lie (Mr. Roebuck) quarrelled not with the opposition of the hon. baronet (sir It. Inglis) to this amendment, for the lien. baronet bad always adhered to the bigoted view of the subject. (Laughter) But how the hon. and le arned g entleman (Sir F. Thesiger) could propose to return to it, he could not under. ,• • Mr. Serjeant RI lIY would complain of having been most unfairly attacked by the hon. member for Meath (Mr. Grattan.) He had always been hostile to this bill as re garded Ireland, always prepared to state his object , Hans ; but, not having been in the house at the time of the second reading, lie felt that he would not be justified in stating his objection to the principle during a discussion on the oliAails. He had however intended to state his views ou the question that the bill do pass ; but, though lie rose at the time, as hon. members around him would hear witness, the Speaker said lie was too late. ily the rapidity with which this question was put he was prevented from stating his objections. He should stand or fall by his own convictions and disreininl vituperations. Mr. GRATTAN could assure the hon. and learned member that he had meant nothing derogatory to his cha racter. Mr. REYNOLDS thought the hon. and learned member fur Cork owed an apology to Irish mottle rs for the lan guage which he haul applied to their conduct. The request of the right hon. baronet the member for Ripon was to him (Mr. Reynolds) almost a command. (Hear, hear,) Mr. LAWLESS said he must declare that the conduct of the noble lord at that stage of the bill corresponded with the spirit ill which the bill was proposed and pressed for ward. It was well understood that the bill should he dis cussed on the question that the bill do pass; and the con duct of the noble lord on this occasion was so unlike all his previous conduct, that lie almost doubted whether he was the same noble lord. If there bad not been a singly Irish member present the noble lord should not have allowed the question to have been put. Such conduct was unhandsome awl unworthy of the noble lord's former self. I The right hon. baronet the member for Ripon (Sir J. Gra , ham) had declared that in his opinion the noble lord's con duct was nnhandsonic. noble lord had yielded. Now, what was it the noble lord J -- es , -- • • ......... —..--..... Sir J. GRAHAM, said he must bo allowed to explain. resisted? The noble lord attempted to resist a which he (Sir F. Thesiger) proposed to introduce into the We had admitted catholies to be our fellow-citizens infect as What he said had been misunderstood b y . the hon. gentle provision I stand. Parliament had taken the step with their eyes open. bill, that all future briefs and rescripts of a similar descrir well so in name; we had admitted their religion to be üblicly professed here. It wan acknowledged every time thought the Speaker gave every member the fullest oppor tion should be prohibited under a penalty. He (Sir '. P man (Mr. Lawless). Ile said most pointedly that he Thesiger) confessed that if he had the choice between the a Homan catholic member came to that table to t a ke th e oath. tunas, of entering into the discussion, and he certainly did adoption of one of these clauses or the other, he shmild Now no man could be a catholic unless he acknowledged I not say that the noble lord's (Lord J. Itti-sell) conduct was hare been rather in favour of the prospective than the re - the Po p e of Itome to ho the head of that re- 1 unhandsome. (Hear, hear.) Seeing the hoe. and learned trospective legislation. The noble lord, however, had a ligion. (Hear, hear.) But this bill said that member for Cork (kir. Scrjeant Murphy) in his place he ' choice upon the matter, and he chose to admit that which every bull such as was described in its preamble should he thought he was about to rise, and when he did not do so was undoubtedly of great importance, but which could only null and void. The words of the first clause were remark- I felt sure that he could not be aware of the present stage constitute a half measure, it only fur the future. On providing for the past able: " All such briefs, r e seripts, or lett e rs apostolic ; and 'of the debate ; but instead of blaming the noble lord, he without at all making any provisionthis' what ground was it that the noble lord offered this or title, conferred, or intended to be conferred thereby, , debate, in order to a ff ord au opportunity for further ilia are and shall be deemed unlawful and void " If this bill cession. opposition ? They had the opinion of the noble lord expressed ono former occasion that his (Sir F. The ment made very little, if any, ation in b ec ame law, let not the goverument suppose they could , After a few words from Mr. Lswi.f.. , s, lager's) amend control its application. It had been suggested that 1 Mr. KEOGHwould recommend his lion. friends around alter the scope of the bill. Now, he was rather curious f or hen. M it was not necessary a person to be in hole i him to assent to the proposition of th e right h. to understand on what ground it was that the noble or ders to make a good marriage. But, though iu 1 baronet (Sir J. Graham), whose high position in that house, lad now opposed the introduction of these provisions. both England and Ireland the marriages of dis s ent in g combined with the eminent s e rvices w hich he had at a ll The Atternev-General had expressed his opinion that there ministers were good, it was necessary that they should be " times rendered to the cause of religious liberty entitled him WM a prohibition contained in this clause which would cu rb ministers; and if a man professed to be a catholic to their most implicit confidence. However he might re and was not so, the marriage he solemnised was no. Bre t what hail taken place, he must say that the responsibi- Slate a misdemeanour with reference to these briefs and P riest , waseripts ; but if that were so it had clearly reference ti the m arriage at all. On these grounds he appealed to the noble 1 pity of the bill rested solely upon the government, who g e briefs and reseripto. His right hon. and learned friend l or d (liiiesell), not only against the amen Ins- ats of Sir F. i had first retreated from their own bill, and then adopted im bad, therefore, couceded all that was required upon the pre - Thesiger, but against the bill altogether. It propo-sea things alterations to which they had previously declared that they sent occasion, namely, the necessity there was for making which must of necessity be the groundwork of dissension, ! were o pp ose d. Thi s bill wou ld fi n d it s way up to th e H ouse litigation, and m i sery. It it were put into eseetition, it o f Lords in connexion with this remarkable fact, that it provision for any future documents of the same character would be the brand of discord in Ireland—(hear, hear)—if was the first bill restraining the religious liberties of a , which might lie introduced into this country. The statutes of Richard end Elisabeth were d i rected again,[ the procur. not, it would be the shame of that house and the parliament great portion of the people that had ever reached that I (Hear, hear.) He would not criticise the ' , house, after the I'rime Minister had experienced four lag s publishing, or putting in force bulls or rescripte, and that passel it. wordiest , of the preamble, but it was in reality not English. I ignominious defeats upon its di ff erent stages. The weight ; that would not apply to the assumption of ecclesiastical (Laughter.) k'rom beginning to end it Res Ihe would be unable to sustain. thrown upon the noble lord, was such as titles. But the object of the house was to repel the assume Its • whereases ' were placed as if they had been there by , o e respons ibili ty don of power in a document which had oome from Route • accident. ?,jr. AGLIONBY could not refrain from saying that he pretention to supremacy in the realm of England, m i d ' a hardly intelligible ; but if it had an intelligible meanin g, I claim to undivided sway, which was inconsistent with it was such at he had described. thought the attack made on the noble lord at the head of the Queen's prerogative. 1.19 W then were they to Mr. NAPIER rose amidst loud and prolonged cries of the government wan most unjustifiable, Al regarded the meet this assumption ? Certainly not by mere legisla- " Divide," to which the hon. and learned gentleman yielded Speaker, he must say that he put the question slowly and lion against ecclesiastical titles; hut insomuch at an 1 the house immediately' divided. i deliberately, as if he expected some one to rise, looking briefs and reseripts had, according to the statement For Lord J. Russell's amendment 129 towards that part of the house which was occupied by Irish !members: lie put the question twice, and appeared surprised of tumor catholic authorities themselves, no man- Against it 2OB-79 ner of force or validity u ntil they were re ceived and Mr. FILESIIFIEI.D then rose, amidst loud cries of " Oh, that no one rose. The hon. and learned member for Ath published, they ought rather to direct their attention to oh," to move the following amendment, of which he had lone said the whole reeponsibility of this bill rested upon that. Now, a bull or reseript might be pablieheil in three given notice. , the government. He (Mr. Aglionby) totally denied that, ways ; first, by Milling it to the church doors ; secondly, by To kir , . out all tha wont. atter Vie wards "united church," p. 2. ' and would apal to the public for confirmation. reading it in all the eh in the diocese ; and, thirdly,i Mr. MO OILE said, whatever might be urged to the con by delivering it to the priest., to be communicated by them to line 4i, t i thn end of the &the., end to ittesrt the mllowing verde:— I deemed to M the o at-s ees udintgairbi'mae!, 1 teary , the responsibility of this bill rested with the l'rime ..7 . .very such permit) Aril be each individual in their flocks. The noble lord saiiithe law was tl,4're'desl7,4,,iy„,l,e.,:t e ;,.. " . r 0 i X,,,,, a " ,„7,':•,: n. h a a t,' :1 . 1 ;;7 1 .17:t. ta t to d,, ou t - Minister, who had taken charge of a bill which centained in such an obsolete state, that it was perfectly impossible to out of this i realm wito n • time to be Round in sun juhratent, not . a provision diametrically opposed to his own fre , take any proceedings upon it. The noble lord, by thus excecohnit their calmalar m wits trim aucli conviction, and a rertig. quently expressed opinions. This bill rendered penal casting a reflection upon the law, had mode it, if the term CAW 4 , 1 Puel jo Nolen ,' water the *eel of the ..art PrOa. , aaa Mt what the noble lord had declared to be essential might he used, more of a dead letter than it was :r; free. If 'to the continuance of the catholic religion in Ireland. a u judgment, or th• 'sign Jture of the proper ter 1t be s e t court, t then the noble lord considered the motive of Richard was l'ha"' bet " I ' l l, t h h ",' 1', " . " 1 ." ,, e i a t it h a e , P a r r et , , a , u jn ' a r i n .a .n ,,, a u . "h,,%.°llacrfenn. ° to I . IThe Irish Roman catholic members had not neglected their I really inoperative, it was clear that they wanted stone new L T .' 4 ,: 0 ia,:.1 . 1; ' ,.;,.„ ' ,,, , , ant ir .. ;e - ,; . ,,, ~.-;,-..; .o - :,al - ot sha ll os . i duty. They were delighted to see the bill as it was. (Hear, law to supply its place ; and unleas toil legislation Was fain 1 'whin the e- hm a'ter ouch time in one inolfunent liesand It - hear.) They wished to ace it puss in as nit impracticable directed to that end, it would be wholly inefficient and eh.; b • :await tor be alaj ety'e rata de metary of State, and he is !and diagrareful a shape as poseible. futile. (Cheers.) But if the Mw were really operative, then heresy tentured, b , warrant und. r his baud ant aeal, to give such 1 Colonel SIBTIIOII.I' looked upon the whole proceeding the nohle lord could hardly have any ohjeetion to the has l' ee"" i" ct".ll'' of '''''' induction of his (Sir F. Thesiger's) clause, for it mitigated ot lice Map , •ty's ,e neseerLs re, oe t o tf , ! er n th to pw i s , i of the government in regard to this measure as proof of political cowardice on the part of the noble lord, on whose won to wholetc.h.:ll.ltOlti..k. t n t;l l, tre i l s t o r l „. 11 , warrant, mtu ” in ai. d a be eat. the penalties of the old statute (and no one would atta nor abln, his cn'a..,,,,,. and a , sj„, , a nt if hem dl scorn to this kjnp head let the responsibility rest. The course the noble bird Ito eufore a one/metier, the p ena lti e s of w hi c h were scarce y taw after be oho I base as Ca attiodood to depart, nd 'MAI h ivy had taken proved to him that he and his coilewsues ear,•d I now known), and it wave it a modern f o rm. (Cheers.) &ported or ben removill as aforesaid, he shall be II dole to ba rent • nothing for the religion of the country, nor fur the interests I The noble lord said that it inflicted double penalties . Now e,yona r es., :i s i. pr•tvithat by an act pace lin the tenth year of the _, of the crown. cumulative penalties were those which imposed two ' telit. of bk . ,` /1"e 1404 1 K , i Ptt tieeelee the Four th , e ' 7 ' i n t he Caw m Lord J. RUSSELL observed that it was scarcely recce cumulative son IUeIMILTO M reap 011 utters. Ipenalties fur the same offence ; hut if there werenary to notice what hail fallen from the hon. and gallant two offences (end nobody would deny that such ' The hos. gentleman, who was much interrupted by the member, but there were circumstances with regard to was the case in this matter), there could surely be no oh3ec - such' prov i s i„. ..„ imeatienee of the house, was understood to say that some what had occurred during the last few days, and el*. this was necessrry to make the measure tiun to a distinct penalty for each. (Cheers) But the noble lord said the provision in the claim) relating to theclans' with regard to what had occurred in the debate of e t ffective. lie referred to the circumstances under which introduced, and was under- that night, which without some explanation might he liable publication of a hull, brief, or rescript , would apply to pub ' i stood 1 the mean of 1429 had been to misconstruction. Of this they had had proof during the lication in a newspinwr, ; and that would be too paltry n Ta to argue that this provision was in strict keeping with ge , it e,. , discussion of the last half hour. The house would re ' offence for any AttoraerGeneral to prosecute. Now the a noble lord was really mistaken. lie (Sir F. Theoiger) continued to address the hone for upwards of a t t b l i teprinci principles of the Emancipation Act. The lion. member that when it was seg./esti:el by the right hon. gen tleman the member for the Uuiversity of Osford, that as already explained what the publication of a hull or resc h Ail i t of the bill would he changed by the adoption of really wan; besidea which, the publication in a newspaper 1 1 t darter of an hour, hut not a single observation of his' the amendments to be proposed, it woald be &lir:dile to ; l eached the gallery in coneequence of the vehement i the shape was obviously only the publication of a espy of the brief or anti continuous bursts of interruption. When he had Lan- CIIII:Cd, ... take the discussion on the general merits of the bill on the motion that it do pass in the shape in which it then might rewcipt, whereas the clause was directed against the publi- be, rather than on the question of the third reading, lie cation of the document itself. (" (Isar, hear," and laughs Lord J. RUSSELL said, I wish to consume as little rif ter.) It was therefore quite absurd to say that the clause the time of the house as possible, and will, therefore, say onl a few words as regards this amendment. (Lord J. Russell) assented to that course, cansidering that as there was to be another discussion on the principle of the would reach the editors and proprietors of newspapers. (Hear, hear.) Hie desire was solely to meet what Zit 110 N. MEMBER —lt has not been seconded. measure, it would he most convenient that it should he taken on the bill in the shape in which it should ultimately appear the noble lord said were his intentions—(loud cheers) --and he thought he had eurceeded in his object. ('• clear, hear," and laughter.) It won understood that the amendment then fell to the after the decision of the house upon the amendments. But (Cheers.) There was nothing in his proposition to inter- the opponents of the meanure to decide whether they would although that was the most convenient course, it was for tore with religious liberty, or with any une, , sity of the Lord J. RUSSELL said with regard to the amendment ground, having no seconder. take a discussion on the third reading or on the question Roman catholic church. (Cheers) It Walt not a contest that the bill do pase, all he had to do being to move, accord of the hon , and learned gentleman, the member for Abing between churches at all, but a contest between two supre- don (Sir F . Thesigcr), he was nut disposed to trespass at to the notice he had given, the omission of a portion of inacies—(cheers)--a contest whether the (lessen was to ht• length lin the time of the house. The question had been the undoubted sovereign of lien own realms. (Corers.) the amendments which had been introduced at the instance They were suffering from the wealsnew of their legisiationi sufficiently armed tdready; and, it being his wish that tle. ing of the honourable and learned. member for Abingdon. (Chem.) This country attracted the s•iecial attention of matter shMilif be left in the halide of the law officers of the Those hon. gentlemen (the opponent of the bill,) chose to c ; :aenai altogether, he should therefore more that the words his Matinees, and there had just appear:el an appe . al to the piety and charity of the Italians, which hail been issued at common * f informer, " "as carried in the amendment of the hoiamllno Cntleman opposite (Sir F. Thesiger) absent themselves on the discussion end division on those Rome, and printed at the press of the Ravel Apostolic ' amendments; and, after the decision upon them, the Speaker having most clearly stated to the home" that the Chamber. (The hon . and learned gentleman then stroll be learne d nitted it the clause. question then was " that the bill do now pass," by (Lord J. read the greater _portion of the document, Sir F. TiII:SMELL said that as the questinn hail been so as well fully discussed already. he would not delay the house with Russell) was certainly surprised that no one rose to speak - -.. • - any repetition of argument. (" Divide.") upon that question. For a moment he had felt disposed to -- house " ii di - - rise himself • '-end to him that, if he spoke first, ..ose himself ; but it °mune,. hon. gentlemen who might follow him would ming charges against him of one kind or another, which he would, by the rules of the house, ho prevented front replying vi. (Hear, hear.) Therefore it wits that he abstained from doing so, and left it to the house, by affirming or negativing the question, to decide whether the bill shettlil pass or not. (Hear, hear.) But then the hon. member for Clonmel (Mr. Lawless) laid it to his charge that the debate had not taken place. Without charging any blame on the hon. member and his friends who so absented themselves from the house, and afterwards refrained from rising on the question that the bill do pass, he could not see how blame could rest upon him. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned member for Athlone (Mr. Keogh) was also angry :that there had been no discussion, and had spoken of Ministers suffering defeat upon an amendment which they had proposed aitll the view of making the bill as he himself bad proposed to make it by (the hono a proposition which, when brought for ward by him urable member) they had opposed. That proposition which went to prevent any person from instituting criminal proceedings under the act except the Attorney-General. It was the opinion of the government, after consultation with the law officers of the crown, that the bill as it stood was in that shape that no one but the Attorney-General could originate proceedings under it, and therefore he (Lord J. Russell) resisted the hon. and learned gentleman's clause as unne cessary, and not considering it fair to support it without giving notice to the house that he intended to do so. But when the hon. and learned member for Abingdon proposed an amendment altering the hill altogether from that shape in which the hon. and learned member for Athlone wished it to be, by giving permission to any common iulinmer to institute proceedings, then the bon. and learned gentleman absented himself front the house, and by his absence gave his concurrence to an amendment which went to overthrow his own views. Now what consistency there was in such a course he could not understand. (ilean) lie could understand an hon. member saying., as the hon. member lire Mayo (Mr. Moore) had said, " I wish the bill to be as had as it can be, • and [hemline we will take no part in improving it or in in serting any changes which may tend to make it more stringent, but that was not the view of the hon. and learned member for Athlone, who had proposed several amendments, one of which he (Lord John Russell) had assented to, and because another had been rejected the hon. and learned gentleman by his absence ussisteil in the introduction of a principle the opposite to that fir which he contended. Such a course of conduct, he confessed, was to hint unintelligible. (Hear.) Still more was it unintel ligible to him that hon. members who by their absence had enabled the hon. and learned member for Abingdon to introduce his amendments, should lay on those who had charge of the bill the whole of the respimsibility. He was not disposed to shrink from any responsibility he thought justly attached to him. The respensibility he did incur in regard to this bill, and that was sufficiently serious, was that of considering whether after those amendments had been introduced against his consent, and in opposition to , the arguments ho hail advanced, he could continue to take • charge of the bill, and ask the house to assent to it in its present shape. That was the amount of responsibility which now rested upon him, not that of introducing or carrying those amendments, but of considering whether he on the part of the go venment could adopt the hill as it now stood. With re pt,' to that question (said the noble lord), those who are in the same situation that I am, of thinking that the in troduction of the papal rescript into this country last autumn was a serious aggression ou the part of a tertian power against the rights of the crown of this country, and against the independence of this nation— (hear, hear)—those who ate of that opinion will agree with me, that it would base been a serious misfortune, if after we had been front the commencement of the session de bating a bill which was intended to become a legislative act, and as such was calculated to repel that aggression, and assert the supremacy of the crown and the rights of the nation wo deserted the bill altogether, and left the aggression unchecked, and those who had committed it to triumph ov er a people whose grievous in dignation hail been roused by it. (Ilear, hear.) Weighing then the one alternative against the other, and having maturely considered the edict of the amendments of thu hon. and learned gentlemen the member for Abingdon; • having stated his Objections to them when they were pro posed, he felt there was no part of those amendments, al tered as they had been from those originally submitted by the hon. and learned member for Midhurat (Mr. Wal pole) and made more temperate in their operation, there was nothing in those amendments which I thought I would justify me in incurring the serious responsibility of throwing out the bill. (Loud cheers.) That is the rcspon sibility I have incurred, and b which I um ready to abide. Ido not believe there is snyt hiug in the bill which mili tates against religious liberty. (" Oh, oh," and cheers.) The right hon. gentleman the member for Ripon has said, in terms I do nut deserve, that he believed the conduct of the bill will be safe in my hands after it shall have passed into an act, and that he has no fear that religious liberty will he violated. (hear, hear.) I thought I had a more extensive question than that to consider with regard to the passing of this bill. Ido not think it would be sufficient that I should say that the members of the present government, whether in this country or in Ireland, would take rare that the bill was not put into operation in melt a I manner as to violate religious freedom. (Cheers.) I thin k we should not be justified iu moving the passing of this bill—we should not be justitissl in being parties to it-if wo considered that any government that might I succeed us would be able to use the powers which it confers to violate the religious liberty of any portion of her Majesty's subjects. (Cheers.) I thiui our responsibility goes to the extent I have now stated. I think we should fall short of our duty if we said we are willing to take charge of this bill, and as far us we are con cerned, to put its provisions in force in such a manner that no oppression shall be exercised, but that those who may come after us may use it for such a purpose. I do not believe that the bill as it now stands clubs) used for such a purpose. I do not mean to say that an Attorney-Gem,ral might not by a flagrant - • , on of ditty e,- -to a common informer to pro violation of ditty give power e.N.NI to put the penalties of the bill in force—that is pos sible: but in such a case it would be like many other acts of parliament, by which similar powers are conferred, in the confidence that the discretion of the government would be duly exercised. Parliament being always to be appealed to to check any violation of the liberty of the subject. After all, is there anything hostile to religions liberty in preventing bishops, not from officiating, but in preventing their °tibia ling under certain territorial titles, and using instruments in this country, granted by foreign powers, conferring on theta those territorial titles? (Rear, hear.) It appears to me there is no infringement of religious liberty in that pre vention; and it likewise appears to me perfectly prat-tin ble, and what the see of Rome, considering the present state of the world, and the hill of 1829, and the other enactments that have passed in this country, might he ex pected to adopt, and which would relieve us from all ap prehension on the subji et. The fact iv, though it would Ise heard as a novelty at Rome, that this country, not, as I think, by a deplorable schism, but by a division from the church of Rome, became another body of the great Christian community, separated from Rome, and maintaining its own national church and its own system as a religious and Christian nation. (Hear.) There are others, protestant, dissenting from the established church, but likewise forming part of the great Christian community. if the church of Rome would but acknowledge this fact, that there were other Christians in the world besides Roman citholics—if they would say that their archbishops and bishops were archbishops and bishops, not of Westminster, of Birming ham, of Armagh, or of Dublin, but bishops of the Roman catholic community officiating in those districts, and if they would confine their ministrations to those of the Ro man catholic faith, I do not believe there would be any dispute in parliament or the country, not only as to 4 ......--- -----_ MI 'EItIAL PAItLIA------7-7------ I MEN'r. had been appointed by t he house to inquire into the su , ject i 1 , of steam communication between England, India, China, • and Australia had made their report, and had recommended I HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAT, JCLY 4. . that the route of the Cape of Churl Hope should be deter- Tae Luau Ca t sent.t.oa Wok hie seat at tire mined ua. lie widied to know whether it was intended to , V t ioca. cirry out that recommendation, and if so whether tenders • . would be advertised for? ' . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said theri.,re were a good many points of detail connected with the port. Tbete had not vet been conbtlerA, and he could not therefore say anything detioite on the subject at present. -- - liC ME said the right boa. baronet would be aware PETITION PRESENT ED. NIASTrale JUUl,4litinlO3ln Ettl4ITT 1.111. 10c01.. Lard I lltu CtillAM, from solicitors and pructors inon, in roma of jibs bill. i%IAsTEItS JURISDICTION IN EQUITY DILL. t):1 t h e motion that this bill he read a second time, leird LYN DR I ILSE said that a bill similor in principle bail already passed, and was in operati in in Ireland, and it had been productive of the tiliot results. Ile had no doubt that such would be the effect in thh, country of the passing of this bill ; and be thought the law en both couutrio , should ha assimilated. Lord C RAN WOlt 111 said, the effect of the bill woeld las to create tea new j.iolites, and almost CPC!, CAM: brought o. let into the clout • of Equity unitht, under the. bill, es hated before the Masters, and be eirried on la private. Ile 41..1 nut wick to oppose the bill before their lordships, but it required great considefation. '1 he bill was then read a Pecund time. SMITIIFICLD 11AltKET REMOVAL DILL. Lord lIKAUMO.N r, pursuant to notice, rose to move that the stimaliag orders, with reference to the Smithfield et bot Iterouval Rill, be disp, nsed with. Ike bill WU one id great public interest, and lind assumed a public elm railer. Its idlest WAS to get rid of a ore it public nuisance, un I to confer ou the public a considerable benefit; and ha f.A. confident that tiwir lordships would. nut wish to pr:vent r the bill from p•sling hecnuou MOUle technical rule o f thei h 11.1.! might not have been complied with. Thu coin. , he intend—l to pursue would not 4: actinic the hate re. rest. of privet: parties in the future progressed' the ha t The object of nub, being given to parties interested was to iirc,eut their being taken by surprise. I'uhhc notices were to he given of private bills because individual , inte rested should know that their interests were to he affected. Rut, in the ease of the corporation of London, no complaint could elist. The manure was one of such notoriety that tier, one inte,st...l in it must have hail notice of it ; it had be••ii oi canvass , d ink public prints that it wa, ill.l4llftl te) that all par tut, rested had not had sufficient public notice. It tea, the constant practice to suspend the stewing orders where no injury could ue done to private parties by such a course; and unless this c pursued their lordships vrout,l be the very slaves of form. The suspension of the standing orders in this ease could uot affect the parties complaining, Anil he thendore witisl their lordships to agrev to his suution. Lord 1110/1:41/ %LE thought, a., a matter of form, and in jintici: to the parties tomploining, the house ought to re sist the motion. esAny bill afficting private it ioterests was, owent such iiit..rts, a privote bill; and •if were not so, priv.ite property woobl be ceps...el to great peril. When the ntaudiii4 iwiier , were busperoted in any bill, it was generally or .....eoinnaen.tation twin the standing ur- Mr. ._ that a contract for one of the packets to America expired nest month. The expenses connected with these packets were au enormous that he th iu;itt they Should avail them selves of the American steamers, and in this way they might eave one-half of the heavy charge. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not aware of any contract bein; about to expire. Lord NAAS wished to km iw if the line by the Cape would be adopted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that nothing hail yet beenRITISH GU IA determined on the NA.subject. B Mr. G. BEILRELEI rose fur the purpose of putting the question of which he had given notice to the Under-Seere tory fur the Colonies. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—He is not in his place. (A laugh.) Mr. G. BERKELEY—Then will it be understood that I am at liberty to put the question when he comes into the house? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—No, no. Mr. G. BEItKELEY must thou ge on, and perhaps the noble lord at the head of the government would have the puttees, to answer the question. On a former occasion his Yon. friend the Under secretary fur the Colonies had stated that the inquiry into the condition of British Guiana was not an net of the government ; but from a report placed in his hand* by the Under Secretary for the Colonies that morning, it epos:area thaa the commission of inquiry had been appointed by his Excellency the Governor of British Guiana. The report was one of very great importance, and I had been printed in the colony in January, 1S A, but hail, out yet been laid on the table, for what reason he did not ' k no w. It was, however, an extraordinary fret, that • despatch of Governor Darkly, subsequent to the date of publicrtion of that report, and which qualifies! the report and ventured to gainsay its extraordinary facto, hail been laid on the bible. Governor Darkly in that despatch, stated that if the inquiry had been taken at a later period, the commissioners would have greatly qualified their report. Now, he (Mr. G. Berkeley) could not understand why such a despatch should be given and the report be withheld. He was convinced that unless the sulfuring! of the people of that nsaguilicent ca:ony were laid fully before the house , they had 11.1 c hance of re dress, and if redress should happen' to be withheld, the colorists might be justified in asking that the colony he severed from this country. Mr. HAWES replied that there would be no objection to lay the documents asked fur on the table. PRISON DISCIPLINE. In answer to Sir J. PAILINGTON, Sir G. GREY stated that government were willin; at the earliest convenient opportunity to carry out the recom mendation contained in the report of the committee on pri son discipline in reference to the estaliiishment of district pleas where Certain criminals might be confined in place moving transported. Ile hoped that at no distant period they would be able to apply Dartmouth prison to this pur pose. Ilia attention would be called to the subject during the reel**. l'OOlt-LA.W.—LAW OF SETTLEMENT. In answer to Sir J. PAX INUTON, Mr. BAINES said it was his intention in the early part of next session, should lie be then in office, to introduce a bill on the .uhjeet. TILE ESTIMATES. Colonel SI Ilf BMW asked the Chancellor of the Elche. quer on what day it was intended to proceed with the estimate*? The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER. hoped that the bill which stool on the paper that night (the Ecclesiastical Titles Assumption Bill) would nut occupy much time, fuel alter its disposal he would be able to say ou what day the estimates would be taken. &r B. HALL asked when a certain estimate and account connected with the work, of the Court of Sewers would be laid on the table ' • and, also, whether he was to hive the (original report which ho hail some time ago moved tor respecting the Vieturia-street sewer ? Viscount KIIRINUTON said the reason why the esti mate and ucermut of expenses alluded to by the lion. mem ber had not been presented to the house was simply because there were some matters in dispute between the contractors sad the COlllnliSaiOn. The other question of the hon. baronet had been asked before, and had been sufficiently in colisegorse , of a recomniem.soon •• . dors committee; whereas, in the preseut CAW, they hod reoin• au, poo the bill, because the standing orders hot nut li ,en complied with. Nothing could llare 11,11 more ease than for the gov,runient to have given the usual wow , . in N o .-miser. reatiug the curpurotom of London as private noliviau and looking to necessity of up holding and maintoining the slap Lug c urlers—ta: opposed the motion. Th. Marquis of LANSIESWNE said the noble lord might hire dune his duty as eboinaan of the standing order. committee, but, valuable as the standing orders were, the house never intended to make itself so much the stove ut its standing Orden as to forego every inducenrut to public good, anal make all the requireiniata of society give way in the necessity of complying with its matters of Corm. (Ilear, 11 . :111f.) It Was neetosary to SOO that every mm in the metropolis obtained me.t in the best and ebeopst w q ; and n bill seeking to effect such an ads jeet sand In a public bill. Ample notice had been given to the corporation of London, aad every in. on. had 11.1.V11 a lf .e,h•d of en ,Ming Coon to know *hat was intended by r Majesty's government; the notice, in tact, boil been more efficient thou if it had been given in a private bill. The measure hod been lung be fore th • public ; and the feet of notice , . nut having been advertisisl iu Novellaher would Dot surly be made the ground of setting :tool,. a measure of an ilillairtalltl/11 1111 C • haunter, the ooltit.rt of which was t.) ilestr .y an injurious nomalsily, and router a gr.'at bor fit on the polls. (Ileor, h. Airy Voldie opinion and putilie intends must nut lie ...risen( t,, the *Viet observance of standing orders. (11. ar, hear.) 'l' he Duke of RICIIMOND was SOrry to be obliged to go wi th his noble friugg.l 1it.1111.1 hint, because he tliought Use pre., oil market was most ineonrenient, both to the egricut. hired, and to use public. (Ilea:, hear.) Dot he wanted to boost why the stooling orders had nut been complied id& 1.•-t the 1.11 he thrown out this year, and the stasiiag order. Is co untied with neat year, and he would then sup poi Die government. E iri 1 1 ItAN V I LLE felt the necessity of reepeeting the at loan; orders of their lordships' house, bet this war a tall la great public importance, in which he thought they ought to be dispensed with. he Margins of SALISISCIW opposed the motion. Lord ItN. \tl NION'I denied, that, by assenting to the mo tion, they would cost the least reflection on the standing nubs committee. 'Elie only duty which that committee had terforni was to report on facts. In the present ease they had reported the result .1 their int:cr.:oh on into the facts, and it was fur tit.,: lordship; to decide whether justice or 111111stier would ho done by eumplyin r ; with the re ellayant•Mlatigin 14 the committee ; hut whatever tiara lonbillips' derisiou might be, it would in no s,y Alert the ehararter of the Loam:the. '1 he Earl of DEVON argued that the noble lord was not i corn et in ...jam that the committer of ,don.hig milers was 0111) 4 , illotalry 100 facto, fur it luel beet, the ciedoin for 111. ill to rerommend a venom to the house, and if, 111 their u t on, the justice of 11 ease demanded it they would re notimend that a bill should not be proteialed with. Lord IlltOt: till ANI deprecated a chute on the bill *ben their lordships were merely giving their judgment on tic inutiou of his noble friend fur dig, 'using with the CI making orders. All would hare ample opportunity of esoreseing their ut • • us whether for or against the tee 1 naval of the market. Smithfield was a public' nuisance, and, as a nuisance, might be proceeded 11 . ,;,111111t. And eseepting cumin rights which he should not tiler to, it OM a qnstion whether the corporation could nut be proceeded against ter keeping up the nuisance. It ass not only n 111114 ale' a, a market, but from the conse quences which hilloweil in the thorouglifores healing to ant from Sinitliti.+l. Ile should tote for his noble tr. motion. lo,ul It 6 DESD ALE said it hod always been the practice to mind- by the report of the stooling orders committee, mid if their lordships now depart..l trout that practice it o mkt be the bedtime. If the report were set :wide it would op I the dour to irregulority and future injustice. '('heir lordships then ilia i,l“1, sad the numbers were: Fur the motion Against it LAND l'Ultt'llASE F eNlis (11dELAND) DILL. _ upleined. THE ELECTION AT GREENWICH. Mr. Li. HERBERT inquired whether the workmen in the Greenwich and Woolwich Dockyards bed received a holiday en the occasion of the late Greenwich election and if so, whether they had receive d their p a y for that Lord BEAUMONT nomad the second reading of his bill beariug the title of " Parehase of Lands Facilitation, by means of Trost Funds (Ireland) No. II Bill " Ile slid not profane to give power to trustees to deal with trust money a. they ought not ; but only asked for the trustee power to plot, t the trust. Ile idso inked their lordship+ to allow ~,,, Rey to be lent in Ireland on the same terms OW in England where thee: was the right of foreclosure; while in Ireland the trustees could not help themselves ail the ttttt rtgagee in England was able, because the Enrinir hired Estates Act had given power to subsequent creditors I to throw the estate into the market. lie proposed tif give IMPART to the trustee to 'sell, us he ought to b' able to do so when the market was goal, us, if he could sill ' then, the money could he paid up. Ile hoped, if parliament I mitutioutsl the principle of his bill, that its operation email enable trust,s to realiise the whole amount of the mortgage. I The Encumbered Estates Act was furring sales, causing a I glutted market, and excluding purchasers. Ile proposed also' to enable trintets to lend money to a person wilin?! to buy, but who had not sufficient torsos of his ..sra ni go into the Encumbered Estates Court and pur chase 'floss the sale of property would ?,.. faeilitatisl and desert ing putt., assisted ; and to this portion of the bill he underststal the Lord Chancellor of Ireland could see no oltretiona it hate pmf LOKI) t'II.INCELLOIL said h: felt it his duty to mils • this measure. The people of England have ever bs.keil to that house fur the protection of property, but this hill was a departure from that principle. 'Their lordships were now tOlll that not one fartiiint of the money lent by England to Ireland would ever be refund,' unless the pre sent bill were passed. lie concluded by moving, as an amend ment, that tbe.hill hr reads second time that slay six months. The I:ATI of OLENtiALL supported the hill, upon the ground that it was likely to effect some good in the sitter c try, whereas the past legislation of that house had to tided seriously to destroy the value of Irish landed pro perty. I. od IIEAU Mt/NT having briefly replied, Their lordship.) disi led : For the second reading A dainst it The bill was consequently lust. SURVEY OF tiIIEAT BRITAIN, Ac., BILL. This bill was read a third time, and passed. lIAINACLT FOIIES I' BILL. This bill was also read a third time. and pawed. Their lonlshipt adjouru:d at half-past 4:Ten. 16-13 0011.75 F. OF CONIMONS.—FRIDAT, JOLT 4. The Sram4klc took the elute at 4 o'clock. _ VATE 111.":41NE55.... • ...... TOMO RVADINtI. -Hartlepool and Port (construe- tam et nvw pier, dc.) CossioculTlON or UMW ,. AwsNomzurs.—The lords' , antrodwarnts on the following bills were considered and i soared to . .—tir.nt +Southern and Western Railway (Ire-1 God) ; Western Railway (railways to soonest the Birsiouckara and Oxford Junction Railway with the Lon-1 dan roil North Wistrni Railway at 13irmin,:ham, de.); Taw Yak Railway nod Dark Minsders' Widows and Or phans' Fund of th, Frs. Closreh of ttrothind. CONSIIMAID. Caledonian Railway (0i Oarolairk, awl Coatbridge, Pallor and Govan, kca.llC ways) (mu,ndincnt and lAU continuation. RESS.S) Bill. R SIN ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Mr. C. LE .CIS unwed that the bowie at Its rising do ad journ till Monday neat. eSTEAM COMMUNICATION WITH AUSTRALIA. Vis--ount JOCIiLYN stated that the committee which dny ? Sir F. BARING said the workmen had received no ho liday on the occasion in question. When they received holidays it was not emu iroary to stop their pay. THE NEW HOUSE OF COMMONS. Sir E. N. ltlr XTON asked whether it was intended by go vernment that the house of parliament now in use should ' bo pulled down until it hail been proved that the new cham ber would he suitable for the sessions of the House of Comics ? Lord J. ItUSSELL said there was no intention to pull . down the present house until they were satisfied, as lie I hoped they would be, with the accommodation in the new house. His noble friend at the head of the Woods and Forests would see that this seas attended to. Atter this weak he proposed that the house should meet on Saturday morning to go on with the bills on the paper. FAILURE OF BANKS IN IRELAND. Mr. REYNOLDS inqiiired whether the Secretary for Ireland had been made acquainted with the circumstances connected with the failure of a number of banks in Inland, which it had been supposed were under government seen rity. Ile (Mr. Reynolds) had received a communication from one of the unfortunate sufferers—a farmer, who had loilgtsl in one of these banks the entire savings of a long 1 lite, the sum amounting to 3061. Sir W. SOH ERN"' LLE said he had heard nothing of the matter, but would make inquiry. WOODS AND FORESTS. Lord IW XC AN asked why the annual returnof the Com missioners of Woods and Forests, which ought to have been laid on the table on the Stith June, was not yet laid on the table. Lard Si:I73IOCH said it would be ready in a few days. TILE PHARMACY BILL. Mr. WAKLEY said on Wednesday last the Pharmacy Bill was read a second time.mi the understanding that it was to go into committee on Wednesday neat pro forma, fur the !, porpose of introducing certain amendments, and that it was I not ti lie further proceeded with thisll4.,oioll. Now lie believed the Convoy of l'hysieians and the College of Surgeons had but one objection to the bill, and were willing to agree to it if that objection were removed, and there were nearly ; 30,000 chemists and druggists in favour of the bill. He ; salted the right hou. baronet the Secretary for the Home ; Department whether, under these circuinstmecs, he would I be willing to waive the understanding that was come to in order that un endeavour should be made to pass the bill into a law this session. COMMISSION OF SEWERS. Mr. R. OSBORNE said perhaps the right lion. gentle man would also 'tate whether, as the act constituting the l'oannission of Sewers expired this session, he would intro duce 3 bill to continue it, or would he constitute the com mission in a new shape ? Sir 6. GREY said that with regard to the Pharmacy Bill if there were no opposition to it, he did not apprehend there would be any objection to its being proceeded will; but from what passed the other night, he apprehended there would be opposition to it. With regard to the other question, the Sewers Bill would be brought iu at au early period. DEMERARA. ...... Mr. lit ME inquired when tho paiwr,i respecting Deme rara would be laid on the table of the house ? Mr. IIAWEA paid the papers were being prepared, and would be in the hand , of the printer phortly. nuasTßATios OF ASSURANCLi DILL. Ia tO Mr. HENLEY, Sir O. add this measure stood for Friday. He did not know whether the state of public husine,,A would enahle him to take the second reading then ; hut if not he would give notice of the time when it would be brought I forward. EPISCOPAL INCOMES. Sir 11. HALL gave the following notice for Friday nest "The septennial period having arrived for the revision of episcopal incomes by the ecclesiastical commission.. n, and it appearing (by Purl. Paper No. 400) that during the last It years the Bishop of Durham has received :9,6.581. more than the net income assigmd to his see, and during the last sewn year. the Bishops of Chichester, St. David's, Ncr wich. Oxford. Itoche,ter, and Salisbury have received ' 38,2671. more than the net income assigned to their several sees, to ask whether it is the intention of her 11lajesty's pvernment to propose any legislative measures for ob viating the inconvenience and occasional hardship resulting from the present uncertainty of episcopal iu accordance with the desire of the committee on episcopal incomes (Part. Paper No. 400, p. '291, session 18)1). Also to ask whether the bishops who have received larger in comes than were assi;ned to their sees have paid the sur plat over to the common fund, or have retained it for their yam uses ? It appearing also by the same Parliamentary Paper, N'. 400, that the Archbishop of York, the Bishop ▪ Asapb, and the Bishop of Ely, are indebted to the Summon fund to the amount of 11,2254., and that by another Parlitairt.tary raper, No. 113, of the present session, the ecclesiastic i commissioners have failed by correspondence to obtain the payment of sums due from those bishops, to ask whether the ecclesiastical commissioners intend taking legal proceedings for the recovery of the 11511114 due, 411.1, tf not, what course they propose to adopt that the common fund may aot be deprived of that amount so long due and reptatmily demanded? Also whether it is true that the Hi-hop of Salisbury has intimated to the commissioners that he will surrender the property of the see to the com missioners, and receive from them the income assigned to his ace and whether any other bishops have acted iu like manner ?" Lord J. RUSSELL said, before the orders of the day, he might bo allowed to appeal to the house for a few moments, beeause the notice which the boo. baroaet had just given was somewhat unfair to the persons it related to. If the hon. baronet had asked him a question and given him a no- I I t •