The Express. — London, England, 1848-08-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMEA T. H(111Se. tIF L4IRDS.—MONDAT, JULY 31. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat at fly. o'clock. PRIVATE. BUSINESS. BECONtI RIeADI SGS. New Grand Canal Company (Ireland) ( mod 2)- Edinburgh Police (amendment and dation of seta and police and watery Improvement) ; New Rosa Poet and lisartour ; 'TiIRY) RE Aril NGS.—Dunhar Customs, Water, and 'Wismar Duos Amendment; Cal dolman Railway (branch across the Clyde and Glees gow station) ; Aherarou Market ; Wiahaw and Cohn... Railway (de viations, conneetom brooch, and improvement) ; bah muniep.tity rz eucc Trusts, Markets, Paving, and titaltary I m peovements; PUBLIC BUSINESS. SECOND RV ADING.—Com Markets (Ireland) nun. CONI trri:Ks..—Deelarat , ry Sun s ; Wolverhampton Curley; Ad mlnhurto iota al Cantina) Justice ; Mils TLIIRD HEADINGs. —II:Oland Road and Bridges fiioutbuul) ; Trustees Relief ,Irelsntl) ; 11111.. COMMONS' AMENDMENTS CONSlDERED.—lncumbered Es tates (Ire and) Rill. COMMONs' REASONS POR DISAGREEING TO LORDS' AMENDMEN feS CONSIDERED.—Evicted Destitute Poor (Ireland) PETITIONS.—By the Fart of HARROW BY, from several places, nattiest the sale of spirituous Betimes on the Lord's day. NOTICE. Ole MOTION.—Scers or Imo too—Lord HEOCOGAM, on Thurnlay neat, to move for a return of the proclan”tions el the Lord lieutenant, and call the attention of the house to the state of Ireland unless tranquillity was previously restored. COPYIIOLD ENFRANCHISEMENT BILL. The Bishop of LONDON asked the noble and learned lord on the woolsack to allow this measure, which involved some very important points, to stand over until next session. He did not ate why the Charitable Trusts Bill should not also be postponed, because that was also introduced at a late period of the sessian, and there wan no time now for its dis cussion. Ile might also mention that many of his right rev. brethren could not be present again during the re mainder of the session. he LORD CHANCELLOR did not apprehend that there could be any difficulty in passing the measure during this session, as all the public business of importance had been disposed of. It there was a strong kelieg, however, against preeeeilins farther with the bill at this late period, he would not press it. Lord STANLEY condemned the practice of postponing measurss in their lon:slips' house until n., late a period of the session. Three months a i rq the government had been asked it they intended to Drina in a bill to regulate charities, and now, in July, for the first time (having then stated that they hoped to take the matter up), the noble and learned lord had laid the Charitable Trusts Bill on the table, which was an important measure, and which it would be impoesille to discuss fairly now, inasmuch as many of their lordships had left town, especially those connect , with Ireland. lie hoped the government would not, for the remainder of the session, prets forward important measures introduced for the first time. Atter a beislconvereation, The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that, considering the period of the session, he had carefully avoided introducing any maters in the bill which would lead to controversy. Thera were parts of the measure which it would be very in eonveniant to postpone; and really he believed the noble lord (Stanley) had not read the bill ; when he did so he had no doubt that he would see the nett-m.4;y of its b ing passed. He repeated, that he was ready to strikeout whatever might be likely to lead to much discussion and opposition. IRISH REPEAL MAGISTRATES. The Earl of OLENOALL wished to ask whether enrtain magistratss for the borough of Kilkenny who attended a deputation to Dublin from some clubs in that baromth acre still in the commission of the peace ? if not struck off, tl.ese eltOr'st maaistrates might swear in special constables of their own sentiments. The Margot. of LANSDOWNE was not aware that any alteration had been made in the magistracy of the borough referred to, ~ ut the whole matter was under consideration. SAVINGS BANKS. In reply to a question Iron a Noucz Loan, The Ma,quis of L.kNSDOWNE said it was not the intenti n of ~he government to introduce any measure on the subject of savings banks without previous inquiry. EVICTED DESI ITUTE POOR (IRELAND) BILL. The Ms qui. of CLANRICARDE, it moving that the cos'miroo reasons for dissgreeiqg to the Lords' amend ments he considered, said he hoped that the hone• would not insist on their amendments, because the House of Com mons, with scarcely any dieen•sion, and without a division, had (Inland them to lie inesp , dient. Lord MONTEAGLE thought, without the amendments of their lordships, the bill would he very inefficient. Aber a frw words from the Earl of GLENOALL, which were inaudble in the gallery. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE 'Paid that he could not understand why any noble lord should think it better to give notice to the relieving officer 12 hours after the persons had be a disponereed in a large union which might enteral for a distance ot 50 miles, instead 0198 hours previous to such eviction. Alter a short discussion, the motion for abandoning the Lords' amendments was screed to without a division. INCC BERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the consideration of the Come amendments in this bill. The noble and learned lord proceeded to explain the effect of the several alterations made in the bill by the House of Commons, more especially as to the clauses for the security of tenants in reversion, the power to a 11, on certain condition., without the intervention of the Court of Chancery; the securities against collusion and fraud ; and coecluded by calling on their lordships to agree to the amendments. Lord STANLEY expressed his surprise that a measure which had been introduced by the government, on the au thoritv e f the Lard Chancellor, shou'al have been so ma terially tut. red in the other house, not in consequence of any ooidtien there offered to it, hut at the instance of the SoliciterCie neral; and that now the Lord Chaneelb r hould propose toot their lordsiiins should agree to amendments which would go to set aside all those sake aniseed defences which the noh:e and learned lord hod previously declared were indispensable. This was a most unsatisfactory course of Initiation as between the two houses. (Hear, hear.) This bill materially and deeply affected every proprietor in Ire land. It was passed in its original she: e in the presence of almost every Irish peer (when es'ates were mainly concerned), who had the opportunity of statieg any objections that might be entertained against it. Now almost all the Irish peers and member of parliament were absent in their own country attending t.) than important 'luta s which the present state of Ireland imaosed upon them. It was under these circumstances, when not more than five or six Irish p rs were present, that the house was called upon to assent to this bill in its altered farm—those who wire chiefly inn rested in the measure having no notice, and being in s atire ignorance of the important changes which had been made in it. He believed there was not a member of either house who would be prepared to pass the bill in its present shape, sod apply it to England. (Hear hear.) He knew not whether titter was precedent for curb a course; but if not, it was an occasion on which precedent might properly he established; but it did appear to him that when a bill was returned from the Commons at so late a period of the session, so ahercd in principle as well as in detail, that it was in point ot fact a new hill—it was not an unreasonable prole skim' that the amendments should be refer.ed to a *elect committee, to inquire into and to report to the house their technical and practical effect. As the bill stood, it ap peared to him that the perpetra• ion of fraud would be easy. There was no sufficieet provision for giving notice to the parties interested to prevent the estate being sold without their knowledge, and being forced into the market at a time when all Irish property was materially depreciated at a prica much below its ordinary value. It was true the re was a pro vision against the estate being sold for less than a fair selling price. lint did that mean ten, twenty, or twenty-live year: purchase ? Then any incumbrancer having a mortgage of 2001. on tile estate, =alit apply for a sale. How easy would it be unds r this clause for • party to buy up a number of small mortgages on differeet estates, and by bnnging themall into the market at the same time, reduce the market value, and enter into a collusive sale with a willing purchaser for a price much below what would be necessary to pay off the incumbrances the only check being the certificate of the govern lent °Nicer appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, that the pri^e offered was a fair one according to the market value. It did appear to hiss that these amendments re quired a more eon and accurate exsmination than it was possible to give them in the house, and though he should not then make any motion, yet it he should find any dispo sition on the part of their lordships to adopt his suggestion, he should be prepared to move that the amendments be re ferred to a select committee. His object was not delay, but believing the object ot the bill a good one he was desirous of making it as t fficient as possible. The Earl of WICKLOW observed that the reasons put f'rward by he noble earl against agr eine to the amend ments, viz , the abseece of the Irish peen, was equally appli cable to his motion for referring tae bill to a select com mittee. (cleer, hear.) He did rot feel justified, for the reason steed by the noble lord, to refuse his resent to these amendments, which, while they in many respects im proved t'.c measure, obi not in a'y wayaiff, et its principle. Lord MONTEAO LE thought it bad that their lordships should be obliged to swallow all the Commons' amendments without being allowed the smallest time for consideration. (Hear, hear) In his opinion the best count for their lord ships to take would be the appointment of a select committee, as suggested by the noble lord opposite. The Earl of DEVON should support the second reading. The Earl of ELLENDOROI3OII found it impossible at that period of the session, and in the absence of the great majority of the Irish peers, to consent to these amendments. The house had already agreed to the principle of giving every reasonable facility for the sale of incum hired estates, hut the principle of the amendments went to giro unreasonable fa ilitics for selling up the Irish landlords. (clear, hear.) He saw with deep regret a disposition grow lag up to get rid of the present race of Irish landlords. (Hear, hear.) He must say that, in his opinion, no body of men had been subjected to greater difficulties through which they had conducted themselves on the w hole much better then he believed English landlords would have done under the circumstances. The Earl of OLENGALL thought it impassible that government could refuse the proposition of his noble friend for referring the hill to a select committee. He ILA a great many amendments to r repose, and if government persisted in pressing the bill he should give it every oppo sition per mitted by the forms of the house, even at the risk of being considered factious. lie looked ut on the bill as a scheme of robbery, sad surely faction was justifiable against robbery. It was a mast cruel scheme to drive the estates of the Irish lan'Uurds iuto the market, at a time when it was noto rious that nothing like a price could be obtained for tteas He believed the measure was turd on mainly by a party of persons who had a scheme ati ier fur purchasina up the latd at a low rate r and then retailing it at considerable advance. He believed tt to be a scheme at the head of which were s x quakcrs—(u lanah)—and he hell in his hand a paper whict bad ,been circulated ammg their lordships, and which was strongly confirmatory of his suspicions. It emanated from the quaker., and strongly urged upon their lordships to pass the bill with the Commons' amendments. Now, what business had these English quaker' to interfere with an Irish bill? (A laugh.) They were great capitalists, and their plan was to buy up the land at a low price to sell again. The only hope he had for safety was, that in the present circumstances of Ireland, the estates would find no purchasers. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that so far from its being the desire of the government and of the supporters of the present bill to injure or get rid of the actual landlords of Ireland, their only object was to strengthen their hand, and to better their positions by enabling them to dieincumbei their landed property. At present the Melt landlords were unable to discharge their duties praperly to the occupants of land in Ireland. Enormous tracts of territory were suffered to remain uncultivated which the present bill would bring into immediate tillage. The noble earl opposite misconceived the objects of the bill and the powers which it conferred He (the Marquis of Lanadowne) must oppose,the proposal to send the bill before a select committee. The object of the amendments introduced in the other house was to lessen th: cost of transferring incumbered estates, sodas these costs in variably came out of the owner's pocket, the alteration was in so far a boon to that class. ' Lord STANLEY vindicated himself from the charge of having sought to frustrate or delay the present bill by f.ctious opposition. With respect to the opinions of the noble anu learned lords on this bill, he would he satisfied it the noble aed learned lord on the woolsack would rise in his place and say that it was a measure which in his opinion it would be sole add prudent to extend to landed property in England and Scotland. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that with respect to the bill, it was the same as when it left that place to go to the other house of parliament. The only alterations ware that another and less expensive so well as less tedious method of effecting the object of the bill was introduced in lieu of the machinery proposed by the framers of it. Lord LANGDALE said that the hill was only to be justi fied by the necessity which had called for its introduction. At the same time, it was probable that it would fail in effecting the object proposed. The question was then put: That the Commons' amend- ments be taken into consideration. The house divided. Contents 27 Not Contents lO —l7 The house then procesded to take into einsideration the amendments, which were agreed to. The house adjourned at half-past nine. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, JULY 31. The SP RAW took the chair at 12 o'clock. I'RIVAT6 RUSIN EaS. SECOND READlNGS.—laweett's (or .tlderson's) Estate ; London Cite small Debts; Bob, lIIIHD READlNGS.—Clerkenwell Improvement; Root Anglian Railways (Ely and Huntingdon Railway, extension of time); Ldiv - burgh and Gtostow Railway and Edinburgh and liabgate Railway Amalgamation; Bills. LORDS' AMENDNIENTS CONSIDERED.—StirIing and Dunferm line lialway (amendment and relation); Worcester Turniiile Trust; Bill.. PUBLIC BUSINESS. SECOND READINGS. Highway Rates; Insolvent Debtors' Court; Clerks of the Pear (Dublin); Fisheries (Ireland); Loan So cieties; Proclamations or Fines, Court of Common Plea, ; Dublin Politic; Arierssionable Manors Gommimioners (Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster); Bins. COIIMITTLES.— Farmers' Estate Society; Poor Law Charges (No. 2); Fees (Court of Cluiticery); Paymaster General*, Office Consoli dation; Bills. REPORT.—Oanitabulary Force (Ireland) Bill. Ith:ADING s.—ltegr,stuciive Loan Institution (Ireland); Juseuir Olfersh rs ;Ireionti ; lend TIM Coinninvionen . Ranier , ; Regent's-quadrant Colonnade; Rum, Re., Daiwa Parliamentary Elmiors; ' On the motion that the order of the day be read, Mr. ARKWRIGHT protested against these 12 o'clock sittings, which wire, generally, continued until 2 o'clock in the morning. HIGHWAY RATES BILL. This hill was read a scooted time, and ordered to be com mitted to-morrow (ads day) at 12 o'clock. FARMERS' ESTATE SOCIETY (IRELAND) BILL. On the motion of Sir G. 61113 Y the house went into com mittee on this hill ; and on the first clause being proposed, Mr. ft. I'ALMER said he wished to move an amendment of great importance, namely, the omiiiir nof certain words in the firth line, and to add at the end nt the clause, " That the Land Clauses Consolidation Act of 1845 should not be lector punted with, t.r form par. of, this act, further than should be hereinafter provided " On comparing the present bill with that act, he arrived at the conclusion that it was ins proper to apply the greater portion, and unnecessary to apply the remaining portion of it to this bill. The'. principle of that art made it expedient to interfere with the usual rifhto of owners of property for the public ad- ' vantage, awl accordingly enabled the owners of land to con vey and bind the f, e Pimple with that view. lie conceived Plot the greatest inconvenience would arise from introducing that principle into this hill, which was nut to enable a public company to execute any Rico n act for the public benefit, but to eroclo:e the oat misers of a joint stock company to deal in land, aid so to proratee, according to the intentions of its promoters. the subdivision of land in Ireland. And yet, arrneff with the compulsory power now proposed, they might purchase all the land in Ireland, and it would be a new and unprecedented thing in the history of legislation if parlia au, nt vested them with such a power. He therefore pro- posed that the Land Clau-es Consolidation Act should Lot operate further than hereafter specified. Mr. MONSELL believed that it was intended to take only the enable and not the compulsory clauses of that act. Sir G. GREY hoped the hon. and learned gentleman would not obj, et to some of the enabling powers of the Land Clauses Consolidation Aot being incorporated with this bill. The 35th clau-e would remove the hon, and learned gentle man's objection to this clause, and he would therefore suggest a postponement of it until they came to the 35th. Mr. PALMER had no objection, but lie was of opinion that no part ef the act referred to was necessary for this bill. Mr. HENLEY thanked the hon. and It limed gentleman for the consideration 11C had given to this bill. (Hear, hear.) It nave a railway title to the company, and enabled them to confer that title on threw purchasing trom them. The first clause was then postponed. The Hauer s up to 14 were agreed to. On CLAW 14 a discussion arose as to the insertion of the following provision in the clause, " Provided always that no lot be sold er disposed of in such a way as to enable more than ot.e ptrson to be the owner ur occupier of more than 30 acres." Mr. P. SCROPE objocted to the insertion of the word occupier ; he moved that it be omitted. After some ilieeussion, in which Mr. CILLDBTONE and Mr. F. O'Coxsou took part, The house dividel—For the amendment 3 Against it The proviso as originally irroposed was then agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the bill. Col. DUNNE move d the addition of a proviso rendering the support of parties ejected from the company's lanes chargeable on the rates out of that land. A'ier a conversation the proviso wan withdrawn, with the uniterstending that it should he proposed as a substantive clause on bringing up the report. On the question that the cause as amended should stand part of the bill, Mr. S CRAWFORD said that the extermination of small tenants was the rule and principle of Ir oh landlords. (No, no.) It war, therefore, moat essential that the house should guard against encouraging or stimulating this desire. Small occupancies might be attended with evil; but this was not the case with small proprietorships. Clauses 15 to 17 were then agreed to. On clause 18, which inflicts a penalty for dividing the farms into smaller quantiries than 30 acres, Mr. HENLEY augur:sled that this prevision would open the door to greater evils than it would remedy. It would cause the farina to be held in common by a number of par ties, and would allow of tneir being incumbered to any extent. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the evil might be met by the insertion of the words, " otherwise than by descant." . . Col. DUNNE said the clause had been ingeniously de vised to prevent the subdivision of land in fee, hut het aced, owing to the inveterate habits of the people, that It would be for a lone time inoperative. Mr. P; SCROPE objected to the addition proposed by the Attorney-Oeneral, me the ground that it would operate as a premium Co parties not to make a will. Mr. M'CULLAG II placed butt Bile faith in the policy of settling by statute the size of farms. Ile did not object to sales being n.ade by the cainpany of thirty acres, or any other amount; but to say that the original allotments never should be broken up, or changed in their dimenrions. did nppear to him needless and nugatory. He was for free tr.,de in Land—(cries ot " hear ") ; but by free trade he did net mean that ee.mpanies or landlords should be held wholly irresponsible for the use they made of the power which, in a er.untry like Ireland, the ownership of landed property con-' (erred upon them. He was of (minion that there hail been of late tar tee many evictions for the safety and credit of property itself, to say nothing whatever of the welfare or contentment of tho people. (Hear, hear.) lie never would coeseut to increase this power, or to stimulate its ex, rcise. The landlords of Ireland, as a class, did not de serve the indiscriminate censure that had been sometimes dealt out against them. The majority of them he believed were free from any charge of reckless or ' cruel diseossessian of tenantry. But he must c intend that when they were considering the measure of power to he given to a company professedly formed as a profit.ble specu lation, they , hould remember the exceptions as well as Ito rule. A corAra:ion was 'aid to have no soul ; and a com pany had only a collective conscience. (Hear, hear.) The individual landlord wee. reatrnined by feelities set sympathy with the sufferings and pity tor the privations of those whom ho had known for years, and whom he desired to get rid of. A company could be influenced by no such consideration, and would be restrained by nothing but prudence. lie would therefore desire to furnish some check upon its exter minating powers, and he knew of none more efficacious or reasonable than that of making t! , e lands from which persons bad been evicted by the company . specially chsrge able for their maintenance for a certain period. (11. ar, hear.) Ater a conversation, in which Mr. O'Coicson, Sir J. Y. DULLER, and Mr. H. Pat vett joined, the amendment was agreed to. Mr. O'CONNOR, u one who had devoted much attention to the subjset of small firms, expressed his belief that the clause preventing subdivisions would operate to deter parties who had small capitals from investing them in land. Mr. MONSELL said the sole object of the bill was to create a rlass of yeomanry in Ireland, which existed here and in o'her countries, but were there entirely unknown. De clause as amended was then agreed to, Clauses 19 to 26nn. m r .T. 3 . 4l . to qin d .t h e. finu . se resumed. THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, AUGUST 1, 1848. STANDING ORDERS. On the, motion of bir W. HZATHCOTIII, the ( report of the select committee on *the standing orden revidon etas oonsiderodsod agreed to. • • The hones then adjourned to 6 o'slock. The house mutual at 5 o'clock. NORTH CHESHIRE ELECTION, Lira COURTENAY reported Iron; too cominittee'elsheen to try the merits of this election that Mr. O. C. Legh had been duly elected ; that meat, drink, and entertainment had been provided to a great extent, but Oat there we, no suffi dent evidence to connect with it the sitting member or hit agent. The noble lord gave notice that'll. would, duo dill, more that the evidence be printed. IMPORTATION OF SUCIAR. Mr. WILSON On answer Co a question) said, that an ap• ',Walton ter advances on the irriportatl:n of sugar hail been roade to the East India Company, but be has no reason to believe that such applications would be granted. COLLISION BETWEEN THE PEOPLE AND dimlatsbed it , proportion, end their only profit was derived worn the small quantity or refined sugar, about 10 per mat, which they exported. In Belgium, the law was prweisely the same, and was viewed with the same objections by the re deem. From an inspection of bills of lading, be found that it °oat at least hi 3d. per cwt. to bring relined sugar, in the Mid state, from Millard to Landes ; aid this was equivalent te so n.uch prat ction to ter refiners. Lower freights might b e 's iva by sailing vessels, but the unavoidable delay wee an objection to that mode of transit. Locking at them tactic, he would pat is to the committee whether it would he wise, seeder exerting treaties, to attempt to exclude Duteh sugar. But we were under the MMe treaty with the United States, whose refiners were new beginning to compete with our owes and the Dutch refiners in the Mediterranean and other market', ; and by the act of 1846 a s wi re bouud to admit the r. fined sugar of the United States, without reference to its bring the prnduee of free or slave states, on the most favoured terms. To attempt now to dispute the constrie lion of these treaties would be both unwise and dishonourable on the part of this country. Sup pose that Holland, for the sake of favouring the Uqited States, shined determine to exclude our cotton manufactures taunt we did not grow the cotton, what would be the indignation of the noble lord opposite and his political Sleuth at such an unjust procedure? And yet the course advocate d with regard to the Dutch sugars was precisely the same. Io proof of this view being the correct one the hon. gentleman read an extract from a paper of the late Mr. Dea con Hume, in which he fully.recognised the principle that there as no ground for any distinction as to the place where the material of a manufactured article had been pr - tiered. Certain other advantages which the Dutch refiners pos sewed a ere matter of jealousy to tho friends of the colonial inter. et. Very large tares were sail to be allowed on Havana auger the merchant allowed a tare of 18 per cent., but when it come to pay duty the government only allowed 14 per cent., and so in proportion on other supra. Hence, it was a mistake to suppose %het the Dutch merchants had an advantage uuder this head. Another alleged advantage was, tie Doti h refiners could use the su;'arn imported under any flag He was sorry to PIT that no suck liberality yet prevailed • in H. (land; for the unlined. grit Hags, including all the sugars of &lath America, Java, and Outot, were subject to an addi tional freight of 6d. to 9d. per cwt. But the motion of the noble I.dd would be most di.advantageous to the West Indians themselves. For the last three or four years eda t scluaion of Dutch sugars had operated to their ilimdvantege. It was clearly their interest that what ever reduction in the pre* of aegar took place,' the ad vantage should go, an Jar es poesible, to the consumer, in order that the consumpeen might be stimulated. Previous to the reduction of the duties in 184.5, refined sugar had sold at 17s. 11 , 1. higher than raw sugar; immediately after the mote tion the difference was above 30a., owing to the diffi• culty of the refiners in supplying the inrremed demand. The same thing occurred last year, when refined sugar tell from td 58.. per cwt., while West India sugar fell from 49. Bd. (the long price) to 39,, being a much larger per tentage of fall. Were we now to exclude continental sugars fr .m this market, instead of being an advantage to the c • ieta, it would only give a boon to the refiners. lib ha Sieved that the introduction of the sugar to which the noble lord referred wee a meat rof high policy, and that it would be impolitic sad unwise to accept the resolution of the • idatie 1 . . . Mr. GOULBURN did not think that the calculations to the hon. gentleman made his case better. (Hear, hear.) Nor was his statement with regard to the howdy allowed by Holland at all satisfactory. It wall clear that if the Dutch refiners could only limit the quantity of sugar which they took out for the purpose of refining they would have an runrm .us huunty. It might be an impolitic thine for a fore oe cove rococo?, an mire did its own peeulation, to pay thin large bounty ; but it was also a serious thing for the re floe is of this country to be compelled to compete on equal terms with the Dutch refiners, to whom their government allowed this large bounty. (hear, bear.) It seemed to him that the only mode by which they could effectually protect theince:ees against this bounty was by imposing a higher ' rate 01 on that particular produce. Mr. DISRAELI said that if the position taken by the go , veruieent was one of high policy, as stated by the hon. gen tleman (Mr. Wilton), how could they account for not having taken i in the month of fay—(hear,te hauj—bwause there wall no application from any foreign government since that motich ? He protested ag onst the system adopted, sot now for the first time, by the hon. gentleman, of reading mys terious statistics en anonymous authority to the house. He ulnae' looked upon them with suspicion, and listened to them with perplexity. (Hear, hear.) Re did not think that on the present occasion they had made a very favourable impreonon on the hewee. a Hear, hear.) Toe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the qua stion so gaiety stated by the noble lord opposite was whether or not a higher rate of duty was to he imposed on the r. d sugars of Europe. Upon an equitable and politic construction , .) th, treaty with Holland he thought that the refined sugar of that country ought to . e admitt d in this nn.atry. As to the value of the bounty it.ell, they might judge of that from the two facts—flat, that it was about to iilr.lishett in Belgium; sod, secondly, that the principal oftner , in Holland hail petition a against it. (Hear, hear.) Their legislation would become very complicated indeed it it di peeded upon tnat of other nation.. Mr. °LADS roNE agreed in the latter observation of the right hon. gentleman, but he thought that they should watch the legislation of a particular country on a particular feint. It was said that they ought ant to leave to the Biitisti r. fin. ra the monop ely i t the Ilritish market. lie woul.l admit the justice of allowing to the le rcigner the advantages which arose irons capital, skill, or industry, but it would not be a fair way of applying the principle of liberty of com merce if they were to admit those to eimpete with t.e Britisn refiners who had artificial and fictitious advantages which they &lived from 1. gislition and the long purse of their government. (Hear, hear.) They ought not to adopt an iilibernf mode of construing treaties, hut if they admitted as equitable rule with regard to other countries, th. y ought also te admit it when outing with classes of their own coun trymen. It was duuhtful whether they ought now to enact a permanent legislation on this subject, when they could give 12 months' notice to Holland of terminating the treaty. ith regard to the beunty, it was evident on the face of the f.c . s, that a large bounty was eiven by Holland, and he he )r)1 nothing on the other side in contradiction of the, ex cept what was of the nature of prisumpions. On 100 kilo. grammes a duty of 131 kilogramme.) was charged to tne 'w ean Importing, 5 per cent. of which he ;said in cash, and 90 per cent. was charged in the books of the euvomhouse. If he e xocirted 681 kilogrammes he received back the whole of the 90 per mit. but the machir.cry which h • used yielded him out act 100 kilogrammes not merely the 681 kilogrammes which he exported; but it yielded him, beeides, 111 kilo gramme a of refined sugar, rum 20 kilogramme. of MUSCOVIIIIO end molasses, wnich he introduced into the market of Hol land free of duty, and which he mld at the protected pewee. (Hear.) This, therefore, was in the natrre of a bounty, and it would be unfair to call on the titivate trader in this country to enter into competition with those who were supported by the resour es of a government. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL inked whe thee the right hon. gentle ' man would have one rule for Hollend and another for Ham- Iwo' ? He did not think lie worn. Then, would he propose to make a difference between sugar not grown in Holing, and ?Rigel menufacturi dinit ? He thought that would ac untavoulahly for thin country, h. cause it wouldgive Holland an c pros unity of making a distinction between COWIN matt ufactured in this country and the cotton of the United Sates. The right hon. gentleman said that they could give Holland notice that they would terminate the trea)y. But the right hon. gentleman must consider that the treaty was not con fined to refined sugar, but that it regulawel the general trade he tween Holland and this country, and would he, in order to exclude refined sugar, give h ellmel sn opportunity of in creasing the differential duty on the menu:aetured goods of this country, thereby giving an advantage to the manufac tures of Frau°, Germany, and the United States? But did the refiners of Holland derive any advantage (tem her bounty ? He did not deny that there might he some appa rent advantage in the bounty. But in the first place there was gr at difference of °pluton whether there was any real bounty or not; and in the next, they found a great refiner in Holland saying that it was a disadvantage, Bat what was conclusive to his mind on the subject was, that the refiner. of this country were able to compete with those of Ilol.and in their markets. (Hear, hear.) lie was not surprised that the noble lord who advocated protection should advocate the ex lusion of refined stair from Holland, but that the right hon. gentleman who followed a different principle should do so, very much surprised him. Mr. HERMES said ho did not see any it.consistency in the Coors • adopted by the right hon. gentleman, because, as he understood him, he viewed the question as one of adjust ment—ax one where the only difficulty was to fix the proper amount of duty.. The present cam was similar to that act the English distiller, to whom they allowed a countervailing duty as against Scotch and Irish spirits on which the duty was lower. (Hear, hear,) It Holland gave the support of the government pure to her own refiners of sugar, she had no right to expect that her re• IMO sugars would Ise allowed into this country on equal term with that of ot •cr countries. That would b to make peculiar exception in the case of Holland to which she had uo right. (Hear, hear.) it wool be unjust, unwise, and a sacrifice of their own refiners, to allow Holland to enter into competition with them under such a disadvantage. The case of the government was most feebly supported in the present instance, and the subject was one with which they seemed to be entirely unacquainted. (Hear ) Mr. Macgregor had all moue considered that not leas than a duty of 26r. Bd. on single relined sugar would suffice to pro tect the British refiner. Mr. HUDSON called upon the government to return their earnest thanks to the noble member for Lynn, for Navin saved them from the consequences of the blundering of the hon. member Inc Westbury. The hon. member for Westbury sh. ok his head, rejecting the impeachment. Well, if the hon. member for Westbury was not the author of the blundering which hail been exposed by the noble lord, ho had better let the house know who wall, The committee divided—For the amendment 34 Against it The original schedule was then agreed to as follows: Resolved, that in lieu of certain duties of customs now ?amble en mew, the Meowing denim send, from and to the respective days hervdter mentioned, be charged on silicar imported into the United Kingdom; (that W to soy) —on sugar, the growth and predate of any Bitted. possewein into which the importation of foreign sugar t. pro. ',mind, being imported from any such possession, the lades follow ing: (that is to say)— 1. On hrown t , r while, re -1.44..nr, or 'll6ol . Fell &fed by any Lone-e NUR] In quallty thtreto.foranrY cwt. @ J.4gi 4,4, 4 vl4l . w e 1~ a'%.1 6 "a" 2 . 5 11": 1447 4... d.l to d. tads ZB. d. POOR LAW UNION CHARGES BILL. Thia bill went through committee pro form e s, in vrder that it might be reprinted, after a few observations from Mr. U. The committee was then axed for Friday. POLICE IN IRELAND. Lord CASTLificliiill inquired it the government had received any confirmation of the reports in that day's my( r of a collision having taken place between the people and her kl ai est% 's troops ? Sir G. GREY said he had not received any letter on the subject; but he had reuived a telegraphic communication from the Mayor of Liverpool, sent him by the Lord Lieutenant. stating that a coliislon had taken place between a body of the constabulary and the insurgents, the latter having been dispersed with a few killed, and without any loss to the police. But no portion of her Majesty's forces were engaged in the contest which took place at Kticooly, in the county Tipperary. It also stated that Col. hlt Donnell. with a body of troops, was close in pursuit of Mr. Smith O'Brien. It did not mention the names of those who were killed ; and he (Sir G. Grey) knew nothing of the (sortie .lars. BURIAL OF THE DEAD IN TOWNS. Lord MORPETII stated (in reply to a question from Mr. Unon KA KT respecting the churchyard in Sr. Martin's perish ) that it was his retention next session to introduce a bill for the discouragement of interment within the wall. of large towns. He must add, however, that he had no hope of the measure eucceeding, unless both parties abated much of their present opinions on the subject. SUGAR DUTIES. The house having resolved itself min a committee, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUEIL rose to move resolutions with the view of correcting the inaccura cies of hie former budget, the principal alteration being the ' consolidation of double and single ri lined sugars, and the substitution of one duty upon all refined segue. The right hon. gentleman explained at some length (indistinctly and amidst much noise) his reasons for not admitting sugar refined in bond for home consumption—obsery ng that this decision had been arrived at utter much investigation ' and with the consent cf the refiners. The first resolution was then put from the chair, namely, that on cattily, brown or white refined sugar, or sugar rendered by env process equal in quality thereto, from and rater the 10th July, 1848, to 9th July, 1849, inclusive, the duty shall be 17r. 4d. lon every cwt. 1 Mr. BARELY expressed his astonishment at the an nouncement of the right hon. gentleman, that he should have abandoned the idea which had been so lour held out to the I West India interest, of admitting sugar refined is bond. That interest could henceforth place no confidence in any declara tion of the kiwi. Nine ARDWELL, on behalf of the Liverpool sugar refiner., protested against the vacillation which characterised the pro ceedings of the government with reit ird to the Sugar Duties generally ; and particularly at reloaded their withdrawal of a measure at the eleventh hour, which had been promised to his constituents at an early period. Mr. LABOUCHERE denied that any such expectation had been held out ; though he admitted that such an ar raneement would bs highly desirable ; each, however, were the difficulties which stood in the way of car king it into effect, that the government had most reluctantly abandoned the attempt for the present. Sir W. CLAY said, that the sugar to liners of London, who form. d a I urge portion of the auger refiners of England, were not disappointed, inasmuch as they did not think that. this measure, if carried, would remedy their grievances. After some further conversation, Mr. DARKLY proposed an amendment, with regard to including cane.juice far censumptinti :n this country, which he withdrew after some diecusai. e. Lord U. BENTINCK said that he would now come to the first part of hie amendment, which was the exclusion of the words"and on all sugar or molests( a not otherwise charged evicts duty" in the heading of schedule 3, reJarding the duties on for. ign sugar. Whilst he could not approve of the pros*s il ince tit her Majesty's government on this matt. r, he could not help admiring the d, Inninairtd,' with which the Chancellor of the Exchequer came down to the bowie, and announceol that he wan going to disappoint the planters of the West Indies and the alsuritius, by withholding the great boon which he had promised, and f.r the very light and trivial way in which he passed over ma • few inaccuracies that which wu really a pl. a of guilty to tae tl.ree and twenty rousts which he (Lord 0. Bentinel) brougat against him some day. ago, alluring made three and twer.ty blunders in these r soh'. tient, and of having made two other blunders last week in at tempting to cure some of the blunders be had already made. (Cheers and laughter.) As he find passed so lightly over thin matte:, he (Loro G. Bentitick) wok leave to inform the house that the ministry presented an extraordin-ry spectacle in coming down to the house, after seven weeks' conablera tion atheists resolution., with '23 blunders in them. It was promised that the duties on British double-relined sugar should he reduced from 19a. 6.1. per cwt. to 183., and on siogle rain. d sugar from 16e. 4.i. to 15.. That boon w.. 11 nothing at all, if it woe not actionpanied by the usu once that the British colonies should be permitted to in bond. On their behalf he hail rist nin his place in the house end expressed his satisfaction with the announcement of the , hon. gentleman. He complained that this m. sauce hoot been so long in the contitleration of the government; and it was not till the '2l3th of July, as admitted by the Chancellor of the Ee -1 chrquer, that the governor , nt tionight tit to emmutt the chairman of the Customs and the clansman of Excise (tr, ar, hear) as to whether th ‘ir princpsl mentions for assisting She British planters could or could nut be practically carried out. There never yet WWI seta such a spectacle of ministers mooing down le rfeetly incupible of carrying on the Maoism of the house. What must be the feeling at the trade in this country, when th• . •y saw a ministry, who, without consulting the proper autLerities, came down to the house rroposing a measure containing. as he had before stated, a quar ter of a hundred mistakes? He was in hopes that the government were about to give the 13 ' h planters com pensation. Now, as to the question of sugar imported from the continent of Europe by toe late act, there wan a perma nent duty of three guineas on double and tingle sugar Irmo those countries of which it was neither the growth nor the produce. There was a duty of tw . guineas on muscovado imported from countries of which it was not the produce, and ltd. on molasses. The government, ,t seemed. diinmered a difficulty with regard to Dutch duties which they did not lei -1 in the month of May List, and he must ray t tat a more idle pretence for admitting Dutch sugar by an alteration in the duties could Out be adiluei d than that which was brought forword by the government. The noble lord then quoted the Dutch treaty, and coati nded that its terms justilii d the amendment be now proposed. From the best information he could obtain the Dutch go- vernment in 1817 levied 117,0001. of duties on raw sug—ar, and gave back as bounties 145,0901. on export sugar, being about 31. per cwt. While in Holland the difference in pries between raw and refined sugar was about Is. lid. only, in this country i. was lls. or 12s. This proved the existence of some government bounty to the Dutch refiners. By a letter from Lord Howard de IValden, he learnt that the de lade bounty given on sugar refined in Belgium was 60,0001. a leer. In the amendment he proposed he had rather cheeen I.llow the o:d act than the new seladula pro posed by ministers • and he confidently looked for the supp.dt of the thirty six members of the Anti-Corn law League, who lied voted against any alteration in the act of 1846. Lest government should interpose fears ax to the loss of revenue, he would remind the house bow mistaken they had been in their calculations as to the prob.ble receipts. He found that there had been entered for consumption at the five pri lapel ports, in the 29 weeks of the present year, 166,152 loci ; while in the corresponding p. Hod of last year, the en'ry was only i 43,318 tons. Allow ing for the other smaller ports, the entry had probably been 188,583 tone, against 162,6.55 tons in the preceding year ; being an increase of 25 928 tons. Making all due afl , wance for toe increased quantity taken out of bend at the beginning of the present month, and which could not account for the whole of this increase, it was evident that the uhaneellor of the Exchequer might calculate on a much larger consump tion than he had ventured to do. Mr. LABOUCRERE said there was only one point in tne noble lord'e speech to which he need allude—the conduct o the government in reference to the Dutch treaty. The go vernment had hold themselves bound to admit Dutch refined sugar on the name terms as sugar th, produce of their cobs ins. Had this principle been denied, the whole of our cotton told silk munteactur rs would hay., been excluded from enantries where they were now admitted under the "most favoured ration" clause. It was true there were some instances in which the letter, rather than the spirit, of that principle had been departed from. One was the case of the Channel Islands, recently cited by the right hon. gentle ' man opposite (Mr. Oladatone). In that case, the Channel I Islands having the privilege of sending their produce here entirely free from duty, an attempt was made, by setting up manufactories there, to throw into this country a quantity of foreign sugar, to the manifest injury of our colonies, and of our own merchants. Against such a frauduleat course an enactment wee very properly paused, to prevent the privi leges of the Channel Islands einc thus abused. But in the case to which the noble lord alluded, no such obj ec ti on cou ld aptly r. GOULBURN raid that, throughout the whole of the Lill, the government subjected the colonies themselves to the very inconvenience which they insisted ought not to be thrust upon foreign countries, by confining the sugars to be imported to those which were redly the produce of the colonies. Mr. WILSON said there was a clear distinction between the cases reternd to. Sugars the produce of the colonies were admitted to this country at a lower duty than those of foreign nations; and hence the importance of protecting the colonists against the fraudub nt importation of Cuba or other sugar as the produce of our own colonies. After lod4, when the duties were equalised, the distinction would become ma terial. As to the Dutch law of bounty, its operation was extremely difficult to under.tand. So ter from its being an advantage last veer, a large Dutch re fi ner had objected to it, and said that it was injurious to the refiners, who would much prefer the permission to refine in bond. Out of every 100 kilogrammes of sugar imported, the Dutch refiners were allowed to sell GO kilogrammes in the refined state, the remainder being take.' for home consumption. Dunce, it became a matter of nice calculation with tho Dutch refiners to carry their operations jug to that point at which they obtained the greatest profit • for if they overstocked the home market , and caused the pri cei to fall, their bounty was n IT 41 016 0 014 8 I 013 4 The remaining schedules were then agreed to as follow: And from and after the re•pectire dayinext hereinafter mentioned: On sugar the growth and produce of any other /3ritish possemiont tg. IZ' 4. —.— ;clZred b . y why prnock4 La eral r„, to 9 al . 1 (,or tarry cwt.. . 1 Brown clay sugar, or s readcrnl by any prowsqual la Quallt toloown clayod, and a equal to white chyed,for every , !1 13 4 To io 0 And from and , kfter the respective days next hereinafter roe:wooed: On sun., the growth and ptodum of any foretan country, and on all Augur not ot t raise with duty, the duties tollowing—(that to Kt]) 44 44 1, 44 44 4 4 .1 -5' e. , 1, 4 2 11 Si i 3/ • it; ii; 111,7, 311 1 7(4 I ZA P 1-= Candy, 14.01•11,0 T L 1. d. Z a. d. E a dE s. d. f;a d. d. Ct.d. white, rented rugor, or sugar reuderod by any a prow. etilLl therutu, for every cwt.. 6 81 4 81 2 M 1 n 8.119 4017 4 13 4 From and alter the respective diye nest tereinalter mentioned, the bounties or drawbacks following shall be paid and allowed upon the exportation from the United Kingdom of the several descriptions of refined sugar hereinafter mentioned : 3 ILP 244 . A. 63 2 ,2 1 i 1 4 i EN .511.E1t-a . Upon relinol TWIT In loaf, Xa. d. Xa. el ga. d. emni•let, amt whole, or limn, duly reflood, baring been perfeally clarified and thorouAlk dried lu Iht 141.01 e. and lcing of a unt form o hileoa w tilrOW6l.l. OT 000.11 Tizor pounded. ent , hed. or lotokco,or AIM candy, the cwt.......... 016 4 0 1.5 0 013 D 01! G ' I.:pon logn.ril, or relined so car. broken in piece", Of NO 101 ground. or powdered swim, or 'ARO fugal! pouided, or enialied ur ImA:et, for every cwt. .... 019 0 012 0 011 0 010 0 And ro in proportke for any greater or lees quantity than n hundred weight. The house resumed. SUPPLY-ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. The 1Z; then went into Committee of Supply. Col. ANSON, in rising to move the Ordnance Estimates, not yet voted, said, that the delay which had taken place in moving these estimates had arisen entirely from the house having thought it desirable to refer them with the military and naval estimate', to the investigation of a committee up-stairs; that committee had been now sitting for five months, anti its labours had resulted in • report on the naval estimates. 11 ith reference to the ordnance esti mates, there seemed to be an impression abroad that, le c ,use they were double what they were in 1824, there was necessarily great extravagance chargeable upon the department; but such was not the fact. He was pre pared to sh ow that every item of which they were cum posed. as well as the amount under each item, was es sential to the efficiency of the service. The house had al ready voted the main portion of the money required for this department. Ile would now go briefly through the re maining items, giving, in relation to each particular such further explanation as might be subsequently demanded. The first vote he should submit was for the pay, allowances and contingencies of ordnance military corps. The In crease in this department he was sure would be not only assented to, but approved of by the country. It was gene rally admitted that our artillery force peculiarly should be kept in a state of complete effi:ieney, and it had accordingly been deemed essential to make considerable additions to this force, the total increase in the estimate being 99,015 e., upon a total e-timate of 710,2541. The second vote was for corn, m ssariat and harr'ck supplies for her Majesty's forces, great-coats • for the army, clothing for colonial corps, &c., the amount being 316,0311. Here there was also ass increase, in the particular items, 'necessarily arising Irons th incriase of the forme to be supplied, but in cense qui nee of a re-distrbution of other items, there would be a diminution iu the total sum asked, as compared with last year, of 54,4331. The next vote was 91,136/. for the ex penses of the °ulna- cc offices at the Tower and Pall mall, being less by 5,3111, than the sum voted last year, although the work performed at these offices bad materially increased. The fourth vote was for establishments in the United King dom and colonies, 235,6101., being an increase upon the vote of last year of 7,5161. He did not think that when the nee-every extent of our military stations at home and abroad was considered, this vote would be considered excessive, but he admitNd that it was one upon which the house would naturally keep • close watch. The inert &se in the vote arose chiefly from the extension which had been deem d essential of our barrack establish meets, more particularly in Ireland, in which part of the kingdom it had been calculated there would be an additional outlay this year, under the head in question, of 10,2421. In vote 5, • very meet increase would be observed ; this vote was for wages of artificers and labourers in the United King dom and colonies, 137,8.521., being an increase of not leas than 20.71:51. It had been considered of the highest import ance to lose no further time in thoroughly completing the efficiency of our artificer department, more especially at Wsolerich, but it was to be borne in mind that the result of this greater efficiency, and of the machinery which was being extensively introduced, would he ultimately to re duce the expense of this department. The next sate was stores, 463,7431., being 95,0001. beyond the sum voted last year under this bead. He c.,uld assure the committee, how ever, that not one single shilling had been added beyond what was deemed necessary. The store of small arms, for instance, had been considered altogether inadequate to the requirements of the public service, and an increase, accord ingly, h,.1 been made in this particular item to the extent of 20,0901. This very incr. ue, however, would keep future estimates down. The next item was for ord nance stores of every description : 38,000/. for entrench ing tools ; 25,0001. fur camp equipages, the store of which hod fallen very short; 20,0001. for saltpetre and gunpowder. In the royal carriage department there was 20,0001. (and this would go but a small way) ; for the laboratory at Woolwich 50,0001. ; for the storekeepers' department 40,0001. ; making altogether 273,0001. For shot and shell there was an addi tion of 14,0001. over the vote of last year. The various other items were much the same as in the estimates of the previous year, but the result was that they had to ask the house to sanction an increase of 95,0001. over the vote of last year. But this expenniture being necessary for the efficiency of the service, and as this was one of the last items in which they Arita I endeavour to economise, he trusted he should have the concurrence of the committee. He now cum to No. 7, which was the largest vote in these estimates. In this vote government had thought it desirable to make a reduction, end be had laid on the table a revised vote showing a decrease en the correlionding vote as contained in the original tett mates of 119,8751. He must not, however, be un derstood as acknowledging that the vote as originally proposed was not justified. But since the first estimates were prepaid circumstances hod emu:reed in the finances of the c untry which rendered it necessary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to endeavour, by reducing the estimates, to meet the ottficalti a which beset him on every side. This was communicated to the Ordnance, and the opinion of the Master-General, the Commander-in Chief, and the Inspettor- General of Fortresses was taken as to the possibility of mak ing any reductions in the expenditure of that department; and it was thought that as there were certain works which had been done without before, these might bs dune without now, and the manse which they would occasion deferred till another year. This was the mode in which a reduction in these estimates had been effected. The house must not, however, expect that these works could be indefinitely poet , pond; on the contrary, they were considered as absolutely necessary by the high authorities to whom he had alluded; and he hoped when the at ito of the finances would justify it, that the house would readily sanction the a xecnse. The gross ' amount id the reduction in this vote was 131,6751., and the • detail of the items on which it was effected would be found fully explained in the revised estimates which had teen laid on the table. Tbey comprised tl.e charges for ordnance home stations, barracks in Great Britain, barracks in Ire hind, ortl n a ce fore ign,and barracks foreign. There we.* some small additions in the home stations, fur completing the sea batteries at Gravesend and Tilbury, tor the defences of the harbour at Albany now forming, and for increased barrack accommodation in Ireland, which would take the place of some of the reductions, and reduce the total saving to the sam he had stated, Viz., 119,8751. lie wortit be permitted to add, that the vote was made out in a different form than on previous occasions, and supplied more it.formation. In toe last part of the vote, in which provision was taken for works of het than 1,000/., each par icular work was sepa rately stated and explained. (Hear, hear.) The next vote was for the scientific branch ; 71,987!. was the sum proposed to b • taken for this; last year the amount voted was 58,9861., coreequently there was here an increase of 13,001/. That was according to the original estimate, but he now proposed to take a vote for 3,2001. less, deducing that sum from the item 6,2001. for the junior academy at Carshalton, which could not this year be carried out to the extent proposed when the estimates were prepared. There had been some complaints of irregularities at this academy, which had engaged the attention of the Master- General, and the measures he had carried into effect in con sequence, he was happy to say, had much improved the dis cipline of the school, and he believed no complaints had of late been made. This establishment, whose object was to prepare the cadets for the college at Woolwich, was of no expellee to the public; the expense was wholly paid by the friends of the pupils; but as the payments made by them on account of the cadets could not be inserted in the accounts until the year after the payment, they were obli;ed to pro pose a vote. The house would be aware that this vote was principally for the Ordnance survey of the United King dom, tor which purpose it was proposed now to take the sum of 60,000/. That survey was proceeding in a satisfactory manner; and though there were some complaints of pre ference given to England and Ireland. and of consequent delay in Scotland, the manner in which it was carried on was such that there was every reason for supposing that this valuable work would be completed at the earliest pomad e period. The reduction on the Carats.lion academe item would reduce the incre iu tido i from 1,300/ . 9,8001. The next • de, w hi ch was for non-te roan • t ey could not alter ; the t , tal amount •his year WS jug than the vote of the previous year by 1.1214 fair wan statement he had to make, soul he could aistire the that in providing for the supplier, and is d . ra tog ton pablio money, the department with which he was coon paid every regard to economy consistent with the elliciercg a the service. The first vote he had to pro was. 316,2.54/. for pay allowance, and eondegencies Ordnance military corPs the total vote was n 6,2441., but 400,00 k had already been granted on account. The question haviug been put, Mr. OSBORNE inquired if the report of the selected, mince on the estimates t,ad Attu presented? Mr. F. MAULE replied that the cowed:tee had ara taken the Ordnance estimates into consideration,nor did the, prop die to go so during toe present session. They hal hitherto been engaged on the navy estimate', tt.eir report/ which had been laid on the table. Colonel SIBTIIORP objected to Tot ng these euimat % until the report was produced. Sir F. T. BARING *heed that the committee or. petit exnenditure had been engaged for s ome time on, the m ei estimate_ ,s end hot gone nito details which had oresrug their whole time till now, end when hon. members read% report which had been presented be thought they would ea say their time had been wasted. (Cheers.) He woo bo u t also to say that 'Le poveromint had affoid. d the csminittm every explanation and document out we required. (Re ar ) With regard to the Ordnang: estimates, as the triennium whichee st describ, es corps kept up as a pl a) ,hi ng Lad made no inqury into them, he was not pr epare d to oga any opposition to these votes. lie unepostood gover nme/ intended to appoint a blinder committee next sessior., win,* should take the Ordcanee and other estimates iota, comid, ation. (" Hear, beer," from Lord J. R ume n) lie Mr. B. OSBORNE must enter his pious: aga i nst the whole h Y4l; complained o em°tr wv4ll nt in the ordnanc e d epute/at u lt l e rape use of the al Horse And*, foreirnambass elms and t r reviews. C(1. ANSON deti.r.ded me hone artillery who, he M A ; might be called the ear.iiry of the Arai ry Mr. OSBORNE said that if a committee were granted be would pledge hmsell to prose that a much in4..e elating force than th.: hone artillery might be upulitained at MX the cost. Mr. IiEItRIES said that when the estimates hag been presented at the commencement of the 4Mien they were thought txces.ive, and a committee was 'pointed to revise them. Now, however, they were celled to to Feu those estimotes, being told that the committee had sieve, all hope of getting further Wan the naval atioiatel deal the present sersion. Admiral BOWLES acid that when the repent of the row mittee came to be compared with the evi.!encr, he bAeved would not be found wuriliy the con-ideration of the I , ..use. Mr. F. MAULE defended the curse he had taken on th; committee. He denied gliving done ..mythin;rca!euloted damage the opinion of the committee in the e.timafon of the I house. , ---------. . Admiral BOWLES explained.—lle bad merely in antes complain that the cm. mime was composed of gentlea tee xtreme opinions, while there was not a hingle pri , sioul man among its members. Consequently, it had ni.n.y bpi groping in the dark. Col. SIBTHOEY complained that the money of the country was always voted away in a thin house. The rot was then agreed to. 116,031/., coromissoriat and Larracks, and for the t.applyel greatcoats for the army. Mr. OSBORNE art ,peted to the supply of greatcors far the a , my being mixed up with the ordnance estimates. After • few words from Col. ANSON, the vote wis agreed to. 46,136/., ordnance department in the Tower. Mr. B. OSBORNE sai.l Mat the system on which the Ord. nance was managed was most extravagant. lie had noon', plaint to make of the hi ~ter-General, butbe would pat itto the house whether an officer of bus-arm was 8 , to mettle the artillery department of tae empire: He sawed that the vote be reduced by 3 000/ , the M‘eter•Gen,ral's salary, The amendment was negatived without a division, smiths vote was agreed to, 129 6461. was voted for the barrack department atd garri son staff. 28,5671., wages of aramrs in the United Kingdom. 233,7431. for Ordnanco stores, land sad P a service. 34,1551. fur works, buildings, and repair. at hcms od abroad. . . On it being proposed to vote the tuna of 24,7871., fort% scientific branch of the Ordnance, Mr. B. OSBORNE shed if this sum included the expense of the survey of London ? Col. ANSON said the Ordnance had nothing to do with that survey. Capt. GORDON asked whether any money wee to be granted for the Ordnance survey of Scotland this yeir ? Col. ANSON said that 13,000/. hcd Veen applied to tith purp, se last year, and 15,0001. would be ap;oop‘mtid to it during the present year. Mr. NV YLD pros. st, el against the employment of tin sappers and miners in the wryer of London, us thereby they superseded the 'Miele of numerous civil IlltVitTolll. Col. ANSON said that he had no wish to und , irate the talents of the civil surveyors, but the commis ioners ef sewers had considered that the work would be more sstisfac torily executed 1 the sippers than b civil surveyors. Mr. HUDSO N also deprecated the employment of the military in civil surveys, as thereby great wrong was in flicted on a large class of professional men. Mr. B. OSBORAE complained that there was en elCiil of 9,0001. over laq year's esti •oates for the cArge of Wool wich Cadet Academy, and this notwithstanding the abuse that had been proved to exist in that estabiWomi at. Col. ANSON explained that them was no additi AI to the estimates in reality, as the expenses were repaid by the cadets. The vote, after some further conversation, anus agreed to. On 82,4411. being proposed for the , onAtf,ctive service, Mr. C. BERKELEY said, that the sum included in this vote for foreign halt-pay seemed never to diminish. We had been at peace for 33 ye ars, and during that time not one of these pensioners Premed to have died. (A laugh.) Mr. GOULBURN said, that an inquiry bad taken plus some time since on that subject., which hod proved mat satisfactory. The vote was then agreed to, as was also a vote o r 20.1,0001, being the remainder of 460,0001., for the military atorances and half-pay of the land forces. The Chairman then reported progress, and obtains:llm* ' to sit again at 12 o'clock to-morrow (this day). COMMITTEE ON SAVINGS BANKS (IRELAND). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER to . oinated the following members on this committee : Mr. H Herbert, Ur. Goulburn, Sir J. Graham, Mr. Reynolds, Mr. Herrin, Mr. G. Craig, Mr. P. Scrone, Sir J. Y. Balser, ,Ir. Mr. K. Seymer, Mr. W. Fagan, Mr. J. A. Smith, Mr. s. Adair, and Mr. Bramston. The rightbon. gentlemsa stated that, as the object of the committee's inquiries was as meek connected witb Scotland as Ireland, he had thought it right to place on the committee several Son eh members. Mr. MONSELL suggested the substitution of the tool of Lord G. Bentinck, Mr. Clements, and Major Moduli he those of Sir J. Y. Butler, Mr. Henies, and Mr. Seyiner, After a conversatim the names originally proposed were agreed to. NEW BILLS. Mr. C. LEWIS obtained leave to bring in a bill to coati nue certain turnpike acts. Lord MORPETR obtained leave to brio g in a hill amend ing an act of last session relating to the London ' , ridges dP preaches Fund. The bills were afterwards brought in and read first time. The house adkureed at one o'clock. ELECTION COMMITTEES=YrsTERDAY. DUBLlN.—Scratiny continued. No votes etruckca NORTH CHEMIRE.—The committee terminate' their laboun by molting that George Cornwall Legh, had been duly elected. w h ite, PADLL43IENTARY DIVISION. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—IRELAND. Mrconmr of 24 to 100 who veiled in favour of Mr. S. Cradtddll motion that "The present distracted mate of Ireland demands*s instant attention of parliament, with a view to the speedy ends meat of such measures as may be wets. try, to improve the COOS titan, redress the grievances, and eatablish the just rights of the Irish people, and thereby imamate the good order and pr.peTil that Portion of the United Kingdom, and give increased smart** her Majesty's crown and government." Aleock, T. Armstrong, Sir Alreen "ta e n , ' l i . i. s.atitelz O M ' '' C ' e7nn ft ell } ,.. J . 7..1. J. Th Tb " :77 ... tr n mo s n j ,' . o e4. . Blake, hl. J. Ilenry, A. "imam, 1L D. K' r, It. Callaghan, I/. Kerthiaw, J. serape, C. P. Caulteild. J. M. W. Fatally, F. rontord. b. lags((, W. Moore, O. 11. 'Venison, E. K. Osborne, U. TIM SPECIAL CONSTABLES OP HAMMERSMITIL-• Yesterday a large number of the gentlemen who had served upon a recent rxeision as special constabl. a dined togethee at the Albion Hail Tavera, "to celebrate the bop;.y um nimity of feeling exhibited on the occasion of the late threatened disturbances." Mr. John Bowling took tits chair, supported in the vice-chair by Mr. A. F. Brehm The lmal and patriotic toasts were drunk with a warmth befitting the occasion ; and after they had been disposed of, the heelths of Mr. Freer and the local magistrates, of the chairman, and of C -ptain West and the speciel constables. were drunk with no less earnestness. A great in Inv lop/ sentiments were expressed by the speakv•re, and cs,h.eier i condemnation thrown upon the disturbers of re.ce and order. The evening passed very Vatiantly. THE CAMDEN-TOWN RAGGED SCIIOOLS.-L evening a public meeting was held at the ma veetry_ St. Pancras-road, on behalf of the Camden-town rum Schools, Lord Ashley, M P., in the chair.—Mr. Bear, Spalding read the report, which set forth by explsinieit the necessity of establishing ragged schools in Cadalen-townt and by whom they were commenced. A spot was se lected in Little Camden-street, and two schools acre tried about three weeks since, capable of holding 20 chudren. The sum collected is 11.51. 35., and the alteration and repairs, of the school have amounted to 1001., and a further outlay° , 301. is required. The annual salaries and iecide ntil en perms will amount to 601.. and if an infant school is oda blished the expenses will be increased to 100 /. a n t The The annual subscriptions amount to 301. The schools hate been oper.ed three weeks, and 70 children h..ve been Id' mitted, and numerous other applications arc he The children will receive a sound scriptural educatioa, sod two industrial classes are formed twice a we. g. The e are taught the art of sewing, and the bcys arc ind rart make and repair their own clothes. The IL v. Mr. lisrisotti the Rev. Mr. Langdale, and other gentl, rued addrested the meeting, after which the company mpar,.ted. gfte Tee West Ludic fail, II Begturas, New Orleans, siclutling thaw for Mttl. ill Ciagres, Panama. %e't Nicaragua, will be math! t. The isaila for the final. 1 i a m B a hia, Madeira, to.. l i Or ming of the 4th Amin. , The walla fur Britt-h a, will be mane up en the re ni The overland eared m. E g ypt, Aden. CA1 14 . , *Truing of the 7th Aum. The mails for Tutu, O. tal will be made upon the or II The mertand maila lot EMS, Alll.ll. Ceylon, Ir ton. will be matte up on The @mita tor New e 4, Tetlund 101 l be ut.ttle 1 The moil. tor the %V t.,4 fp ea the evening°. the • +t NOTICE_ The nuumor et ST. Beemp-celite, ,iuring2 13AIL1 NNWB This, re beiivve, If V trued to the liornit I Morning roar, ALL I _ - - In additlou to the ii;;titsq MWdr. ther; TSB MIMS: .1 Which was o ore, the Globe or Standar • 1 WWI Dav—More., 117:114a0V--Neralgi. LONDON. T EVENTS have ful ing the threatened could be I A rsuadcd seriously cherished who boastingly ph. could be brought t.e the last resort to a able number even sentry ; and for any tion, we felt certai • be debauched by ment of property i trytnen of Leinster large portion of absolutely dutapp ar Then, as to the in manifest to us the . clerks might fine • their several chat time of cnnfu• io people of the ts ev true interes: and , b • with few and moult all, the catholic ele both in country neously, and flllo crusade of O'Bu guarded those wh against being el( •ei idle promises of It nowappeav-ct... the vigorous int ..ta all hope in the min In four fifths of t turbance hoe bet n Kilkenny, Wal erf the madmen who anything like a fo three regiment' h the peace, and I rev day last. Dettli ar abortive attemr. o. arm a small and d the miserable vela found as report( d i satisfy all reanor4b nation of the en.ire outbreak, cart a ;e, any sort ther day or even vehicle has beer at. railway broken dp, The ham st ripens peacefully as o y stern words to sa overturning he • a have never bran i with its usual a yl Of the unhui etY ready fallen, ire we would a 'Li that might 1.0 We allude hapless leader t f t was worthy of attracted little .tot he lived, and it. w let us hope that hi in vain ; and tl at toxication of IN liti may be le. to t . desolation that ul are founded in •Ii their accomplis .tn The belief g..in is absolutely in a arms when last surd. In one i e flute feet long, .v four pistols. S routed at Kilos there can be Ii tl surrender. A SERIOUS I .1 , hitherto smili Adroit tactics, v sentees, and a favourable , el Commons. Ti 4i ting, but their ,u• the committee ~ f was made, and n to obtain the s pendious and .11 conclusions of .h of the thread) it of their First not propitious congratulating; it system of can n which, whetin • Lion which cor a . and attempts I provisions oft e made its appe , importance 4.f i by its own to t those authori• .t• rangemenis with the :u; report of 181 , , THORNTON gee bear away tin p sive philesoi.l•v; which pr. tact 1829 is so far .;1 of any subs} comparatively m notes Charter cum; .i• write Royal. of their ri infinite logo fortunate, or describe the experience be • of Sir CUARL .5 reasoning in In 1841 the to , denly envch rable dike du things in ~ the Lords not boast , elegance of Cu mem to with} , ledge of the .-u Just apprecin i which have e• TnonsTow t, t The comm: themselves i eiVrarated b. deliberate a j no little N. Pernicious bl of th e Co ,. , d. I y et i • 24" .11. d. 016 1 001^_ --; ...4 .....3 vt•ti 4,1 4.1 2t g l h vii 4 74.- i i 3-. . Z. 4. cLZ a 8. 1 / a d.. it 0 40 18 80 17 lil 016 8 14 40'13 64 i e respective "ys nszt I! I el si t e; 11:=