The Express. — London, England, 1847-03-05 00:00:00

r- 740 . ,340 . ; to Auntridia, 107,500 ; and to other places 15,000 neat odd: On the motion of en hon. member, the house was counted, but forty members being ascertained to be present, the gal leries were re-opened, and Mr. HAWES resumed. The hon. member contended that the papers now on the table showed that emigrants, ' on arriving in Canada, bad the benefit of the superintend ence and advice of the emigration ag ents , who were in com munication with the Land and Emigration Commissioners at home, and that under these arrangements emigration Irons this country. unconnected as it had been with colonization, had been most successful. Again, since the commie aion had undertaken the superintendence of the emi gration to Australia, but one feeling existed on the part of the shipowners engaged in the transmission of Emi grants, and the colonist' themselves, and on the part of the public, complaints were rare; but when they did occur, they were carefully and anxiously investigated under the authority of the colonial secretary thr tugh the active agency of the Emigration Commissioners. The right hon. member for Northampton, (Mr. V. Smith,) urged the present as a fitting time to increase the efficiency of the means adopted at the ports for the instruction and advice of Emigrants. He (Mr. Hawes) assured the hon. member, that there was no indisposition on t':e part of the government to meet the present emergency, by properly directing the voluntary stream of emigration ; but if the right hon. gentleman con templated that the Emigration Board should undertake colonization, he sought to impose upon it du ties which were never contemplated, when the Board was constituted—duties, the policy of which it was for the house and government to decide upon. The subject of colonisation was a difficult and comprehensive question, and he (Mr. Hawes) wished he could speak definitely on a system of colonisation. The difficulty arose from the want of a supply of funds, and not flora any indisposition on the part of the government to give effect to a scheme or plan for that purpose. If colonisation on a large plan was to be encou raged by conferring free institutions and local government on those colonies to which the capital and labour of this country could beneficially be directed, he (Mr. Hawes) thought the present government could lay claim to an anxiety to found a social system of local government, as evidenced in the charter and constitution which had been conferred on the colony of New Zealand. (Hear, hear.) From one part of the speech of the right honourable gentleman he essentially dif fered. He (Mr. Hawes) thought it would be a most dangerous course and one calculated to lead to disappoint ment, if the emigration agents should be called upon to exercise ambulatory commissions, and pass through every parish in the country to diremiaate publications connected with emigration, and to stimulate the population to emigrate. At present the funds to assist in colonization lucre from private sources, and by the sale of crown lands ; but if parish after pariah was to be stimulated to emigrate, anti the Emigration Board was to be called on to find funds to enable the emigrants to proceed farther than the ports of disembarkation, the emigrants would be justly discontented and would blame those who had excited them to leave their native homes, if this provision could not he afforded them. The sale of crown lands, from 1840 to 1846, in New South Wales, Port Philip West Australia, South Australia, New Zealand, and the Falkland Islands, had produced 45,5011., the whole of which had been applicable to emigration; and, therefore, as far as the emigration board was concerned, it was not in their province to stimulate the sale of crown lands. He was not aware that he had omitted to touch upon any of the points urged by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. V. Smith). He did not wish to meet the proposition he had made by a direct negative ; on the contrary, he wished to show that the subject was under the attentive consideration of the government, and that they were anxious to receive and entertain such suggestions as had been made to-night ; and, therefore, he (Mr. Hawes) should content himself by simply moving as an amendment, the previous question. Mr. FORSTER was understood to inquire whether the government contemplated the extension of free institutions, and local government to other British colonies ? Dr. BOWRING joined in the hope that his hon. friend the Under Secretary for the Colonies (Mr. Hawes) would be able to st‘te that the government intended to give full and plenary effect to the principle of conferring free institutions, so long secured to the British colonists in all parts of the world. Mr. HAWES, in reply, said it could hardly be expected that be at present could give a definite answer to the ques tion. It would be indecorous in him to do so. He could only , say that his noble friend at the bead of the Colonial-office had his anxious attention turned to the subj e ct. Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN regretted that the present de bate had not extended itself from emigration to the question of colonisation, especially when re gard was had to the present condition of the people of Ireland. He wished to know whether any estimate could be formed as to the number of persons which could now be received as emigrants in British North Ame rica, to which colony there existed a stronger disposition among the people of Ireland to emigrate, than at any former period. He could not think that 10,000/. per annum would be an expenditure too great to advance the emigration there, espe cially when that sum would save much suffering both to the emigrants and the colonists themselves. He wished also to ask whether the government intended to abolish the emi grant tax, which operated against the emigration of persons who were almost starving in Ireland Lord J. RUSSELL was prepared to answer some of the questions put by the hon. member for Limerick (Mr. 8. O'Brien). The hon. member asked, in the first place, whether the government could form soy estimate of the number of persons who could now be received as emigrants in the British North American colonies. 'lt was impossible for the government to form any estimate of that kind : if it was attempted it would only lead the house and country into error ; and it was only because the government was in that position, that, after much consideration, it had been thought unadrisable to undertake the payment of the passage of erni• grants from this country to the colony. The hon. member must himself see that when great numbers of emigrants arrived there for whose labour there was no demand ' and that they were consequently left destitute in the street' of Quebec or Montreal, there would be great suffering, caused not only to those who had crossed the teas with a view to better their condition, but also it would originate a feeling against emigration which would be most injurious to the working of any future plan. Therefore it had been thought best to leave emigration to be carried on by the voluntary disposition of the people, assistance being given by their landlords and by their parishes, and the inducement to emi grate being left dependent upon the intelligence they re ceived from those who bad preceded them, with respect to the prospects of employment on their arrival. It was most honourableto those who had already emigrated to the United States and the colonies that he was enabled to state that by them no less than 600,0001. had been transmitted to this country for the purpose of facilitating the emigration of the friends and relatives of those who had gone in former years. The success of the voluntary s ys tem of emigration was the reason why the government had not practically afforded funds for that purpose. With respect to the ems gration tax it was only an apparent and net • real obstruc tion to emigration, and for that reason he thought it ought to be continued. Formerly, emigrants arriving in Canada appeared in the streets of Quebec or Montreal spectacles of misery—utterly destitute and unable to proceed to West Canada, where at the very time there existed • sufficient demand for labour. The emigrant-tax did not exceed five shillings a-head, and the emigrant, if sick on his arrival, was now provided, with care, in an hospital, while those who were well and able to proceed were, by its means, airisted on their way to places where there was a full and sufficient market for their labour. The consequence had been, as shown in the reports of the emi gration agents, most satisfactory. The amount of emigrants who had gone out last year was as follows:—To north Ame rica, 125,678 ; to Australia, 2,347 ; and te other places 1,826, making a total of 129,851 ; and the only assistance which had been afforded by the government had been given in order to aid the emigrant tax in carrying the emigrants from Quebec and other places into the interior of the country. I The amount so disposed of was, he believed, about 6,0001., and a similar sum would be asked to be voted this year for the same purpose. At the same time he was strongly of opinion that if the government engaged in an artificial sti. mulus to the great desire to emigrate from Ireland, great risk would be run of inundating the colonies with persons who would be then unable to find the means of subsistence. In New York the influx had been so great, that he was told it was in contemplation whether an emigrant tax ought not to be enforced. With regard to increased powers to the boards of guardians, that would be a fitting subject for consideration when the Irish Poor-law Bill was before the house. Mr. (1. W. HOPE said it was easy, on such a question as this, to sheer oat general views ; the difficulty was to appl them to peados The eldest was to relieve the dl M Irmo; bat dr us was a diflisallyos the other M mk il lia stestr. the did and views et err parrs, whir sederiest Wends sal eediers. deism lel le be ,es deed Thus, it agigoallon Inik BIM to the A. Bla advise, the sham al proem meet sada there vas redody them whom it do rot dealsable to keep at %dr —dors who were in the verger of lib, and unencumbesed, add rat reser sissidag ibuleasiber their estates othl id writ Is set di se et dr ether head, speaking with drew to is wrest if hods in Canada, where the land was pudy kthe tardir et the legislature, and largdy in that of imiklitrb, a dilkalty again areas from the isibpsehka of those parties to mend the views of dr pramolon of emigration at home, ?emaking *dr own Intoner glom way. He wee to sot that dire adenines won now generally felt. ra hes the pods, of the late noble secretary . for the eilears (Led Ireary) te torah the land and emigre tha beard on all guider = to emigration ; and he sthe present dr rase course ; rho& the views wit h viii otarrdosion had been amid would not be curia eat The commissionen bed been charged with want if prOlaieliee and activity ; bat the eery reason for this charge was Vas want of means. Whoa Om were supplied with the sinews of war as in dr ease of to Astral* and of wiz, Hill Naas to the West Indium, the bat diva had been d.ssd. both to tie emigrants and the eddies Mr. C. MULLRB, MI it was guite Usti *at he had at ens dm rwrward a plea, which he tito= very erne, Ilar pransain onimation. His noble now a l t ar Z head of dr pronimut bad abo, in the bops of relieving the disbar at Infra, mernmieliad some seek plan at dr armiromanirdiataralaisradon: but it Idaho embalm that bolliess had add l iftreat dales= . 4 , sr was erootingly 1-175. easirlism e"M ulliab a rm' Was Or o▪ f oAab>rilatcmg 'Mint had Mere then Oa Nan if dr lead and T &Lernt i 'brod, apartet to mad aatimnisa. It no a bat Cana% 1 ▪ alf 7 adder el rues et easesep ia list kr& enly 11116010 ear bad boss left reoseres et re rows; ell the rest 10 bean_jobbed away. Naar.) The ere Ina dr same in Mrs =ward's Island, :met farde country, but in which the whole of the lead had been Jeers ore to private individuals la lariso, • sad Wr the Ferrets el the colony had bola WON& THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 5. 1847. la the costatay around the Cape of Good Hope, it was well known that the presence of a savage enemy prevented emigration from taking place. Australia and New Zealand were really the only colonies in which there was sty prospect of promoting emigration with rue. cue; and these colonies could only be made to flourish by the adoption of two means—a system of self-government for all the settlers, and a sound and well-regulated plan for dis posiag of the land, Under such condLions, emigrants would be encouraged to settle in the remotest parts of the globe. Sir W. JAMES hoped that, after ten millions of money I had been voted for the relief of Ireland, the government would not refuse at least 5.0001:for the promotion of the important object now under discussion. Mr. V. SMITH said a few words in explanation, and stated that he had no intention to divide the house on his motion. He hoped what had been stated would make a due impression on the mints of ministers. The motion was then withdrawn. CRACOW AND THE RUSSO-DUTCH LOAN. Mr. HUME hoped that this subject would not suffer front his inability to do that justice to it which its importance deserved. Towards the close of last session he had called the attention of the house to the then state of continental affairs. Cracow being then occupied by Russian and Austrian troops ; and as there was every likelihood of their retaining possession, he had urged on the government the necessity of giving attention to the subject. He had then stated that this was not a solitary instance, that in 1831 these powers had taken military possession of Cracow, contrary to the express stipulations of the treaty of Vienna, —that in 1836, they had done the same, and had retained possession several years, and that, from the information then re ceives', there appeared no intention on their part to retire. The noble lord the secretary for the foreign department had asked the house not to give credence to his (Mr. Hume's) statements, as he had better information, and had every reason to believe that the occupation would be only tempo- Inrary. the other; house, a noble duke (Wellington) had expressed the same confidence with respect to his old allies and friends. This country had maintained its honour and kept is faith with regard to treaties; but other powers when their own interests came in the way , did not hesitate to violate their stipulations. On that account he was anxious that the house should consider the situation of Cra cow. In her Majesty's speech, it was admitted that the extinction of the free state of Cracow was a manifest viola tion of the treaty of Vienna ; and, it was added, that a pro test against it had been delivered to the courts of Vienna, ' Petersburg, and Berlin. Lest it should be supposed that the house had already expressed an opinion on the subject,' by their address in answer to the speech, he would remind them that the answer thus given, which was a mere echo of the speech, did not debar them from a consideration of the sub- ject at any other period of the session. He hoped that hon. members had perused the papers which had been presented to the house, relative to the suppression of the free state of Cracow ; they would then see that he was not the only per son who had taken alarm at the military occupation of Cracow; for the correspondence, so early as January or February of last year, stated clearly that occupa ti on, though an attempt was subsequently made to per suade the house, on the assurance of foreign states, that that possession was only to be temporary. In page 2 of these papers Mr. Ilagennis stated that be sent a messenger' London with a despatch on Feb. 21, giving a thll ezplanatilin of the measures which had taken place re lating to Cracow ; but in no part of the printed papers was that explanation to be found, and he therefore presumed that that assurance satisfied the noble lord (Lord Palmenton) that the statements made by the foreign powers were to be accredited. From January until August not a angle answer was given either by Lord Aberdeen or by Lord Palmerston, or any instructions whatever given by them on the sub ject. After general attention was called to the sub ject, he thought that it must have been expected that some notice should be taken of the ranter by either noble lord. There was a letter written by Led Aberdeen, on the 25th of June, in which, with his thane. teristic prudence and caution, he said that he would suspend his judgment as to the occupation of Cracow. It was to be found 311 page 19 ; and a more prudent and careful dipin wait despatch was not to be found. Lord Palmerston. in the 4th of August, stated that the occupation of Cracow Wig be a violation of the Treaty of Vienna. That was withile a few days of his (Mr. Hume's) motion; and, as the stateliest anticipated it, he gave Lord Palmerston the credit of be lieving that the allies would not be guilty of such a violation of the treaty. These papers weremost valuable, as they gave one ample means of judging the real nature of the case. He never read anything less creditable than the letter of Prince Met ternich. Supposing it to be the policy of diplomatic men to measure the uprightness of their conduct by the magnitude of the affair relating to which it was exercised, Prince Met ternich must have looked upon Cracow as a geographical atom. When Cracow became the subject of an inquisition, and occupied four or five articles in the treaty of Vienna, if Prince Metternich was capable of discarding and putting an end to the liberties of Cracow, and supporting its annexation, he believed his word and honour to be unworthy of notice. (Hear, hear.) On the Ilth of November the Austrian government published their decla ration to the world, in which it was stated that " the state of Cracow had, of its own accord, and without being thereunto driven by any foreign material force, precipitated itself into the gulf of the vast conspiracy which, having fcr its object to re-establish the former commonwealth of Poland, made Cracow the provisional capital of the revolutionary govern ment which was to have directed the measures by which this enterprise was to have been carried into effect." Now there was not a single word of truth in that statement. The noble lord (Palmerston) had so demoli-ted it, that no man could think one word of it worthy of truth. It was stated in it, also, that Cracow made itself the asylum of con spirators ; that was also unworthy of credit. By the treaty Cracow was bound to deliver conspirator sup on requisition ; no requisition was made, and she was not bound to deliver them up ; and if it was, they could not be given up, because there was none to be delivered. In page 35, the declaration stated that " the courts of Austria, of Prussia, and of Russel* having, under these circumstances, to deli berate as to the measures to be adopted by them in order to prevent the recurrence of events similar to those which have lately taken place, have been unanimously of opinion that the political body created in 1815, and destroyed by tbe revolution itself, has been productive of results too fatal to the maintenance of peace, that it has shown itself, too incompatible with the condition of the internal tranquil lity of their own states, and with the maintenance of the principles of geaeral peace, to reader it possible for them to reconstruct it, without taking upon themselves, in the face of their subjects and of Europe, the resp onsibility of a culpable want of foresight. As it is impossible for the then powers to combat the evil where it or ganises is means of action, and as they can only reach it upon the theatre of its material activity, they have felt themselves pieced under the necessity of destroying the principal focus of this activity, placed as it is in the centre of their own states. The only determination which it was possible for them to take was therefore to anaul the provi sions of the triple treaty of 1815, and to re-establish the state of possession anterior to the year 1809." The noble lord had pointed out how utterly erroneous that was; he said that if there was anything dangerous in existence in Cracow, it was net for these three powers to have annulled thai treaty, but that they should have submitted their mesons to the other states, pointing out the danger, and calling upon them to concur in such an alteration in the treaty as would prevent its recurrence. He was not prepared to say that the alteration which had taken place should ant have been made if Cracow was proved to have been the re ceptacle for conspirators, but he would say that these power being only three sovereigns out of eight who had joined in the compact of Vienna, they were not warranted by any known law of nations to have taken on themselves the perpe tration of suck an act. The noble lord was pre pared to take a modification of the treaty if ally danger existed. He must say that the whole of the mauve was founded upon the grossest injustice. Lord Palmerston, in answer to that declaration, in oae put of his despatch, said "Now sink intrigues and pion mast be carried on either by etraniren coming to Cracow or by the inhabitants themselves. Bad no stranger can reach Cracow except by traversing a east extent of territory belonging to one or other of the Three Powers; and it is difficult to imagine that any Polish exile or any conspirator from any foreign country could so far elude the vigilance of the police of the power whom territory he would have to pass through as to be able to penetrate to Cracow. The population of Cracow is not large in number, and not only would the arrival of a suspicious stranger among them be quickly known to the police, but it would be scarcely possible for such stranger or for any resident inhabitant of the state, long to carry on a correspondence with the people of neigh bouring districts, for the purpose of exciting disturbances therein without such correspondence coming to the know ledge of the government, and through them to that of the three residents ; and such practices being once known, the laws of Cracow would surely afford means to put a stop to them effectually. But if the police regulations of Cracow are not efficient enough to secure the obtaining of seek information, and if the laws of Cracow do not give the go vernment power to prevent such an abuse of the shelter of the free state, those police regulations might be improved and then laws might be altered ; and full security might, in these respects, be obtained for the three powers, without &groy ne the existence of the state." The next passage stated that it is no doubt the dug of Cracow to give the three powers such security ; for freedom and independence were given to Cracow forth. well-being and happiness of is and not in order to enable that people to create and confusion in adjoining countries." After that he that no attempt would ls• made to repeat that the= been no violation of the treaty of Vienna. The nest stated that "it appeared toher hiejesty's government= sufficient proof has yet been given to show that full might not be afforded to the internal tranquillity of tit= tones of the three powers, without destroy' the seperate and independent existence of the state of w. It seemed to him that these powers forget that land involved herself in debt to an easessems in order to place the whole continua of Hume In a state of independence. These states owed their In- dependence to the exertions of England, and it was an insult to this country that they had not condescended to give notice of their intentions with respect to Cuseser. The Emperor Ferdinand in the declaration said, "We accordingly by these penman take pommies of the city ef Cracow and of its territory such as it has existed ep to the present time, unite it to our own crown, and dear(' it to form en in tegral portion of our empire, in width WO incorporate it henceforth." Now he asked if tho& Was sot= infraction of the whole of the treaty, and was set sellideat to urge her Majesty's government to take dsddsd Maya A simple empty protest would have no set on INK who had lost their honour. What did they earsfor a rota& Nothing of that kiad mould tell with them and It was necessary to UN PM seamier seas of lintheir disapproval. He treated, thee that *en= of Commons would fiepplat him in the view which he had taken of the natal, ; and he thought that be could show that they deserved to have some attention. yell, at all events, to their stipu/e o ^n, and if they mount expended on the works, distinguishing the pro ductive from the unproductive. Mr. LABOUCHhRE promised that they should do so. Mr. W. COLLETT wanted to know what the promised returns would contain in the way of iuformation, and wished the house to he furnished with the names and previous occu pations of the 11,000 overtone employed on the productive and unproductive works of Ireland. Mr. LABOUCHERE.—The weekly returns would com prise the number of the people employed on the relief works In each counry, bow many were employed on land, how many on the Shannon works, and how many on piers and harbours. If any further information was required, there would be every disposition to produce it as amply as it was obtained. (Hear, hear.) GAME LAWS. Mr. COLLETT inquired if the government intended to introrkee this session any bill with respect to the game laws, in accordance with the recommeudation of the committee of last year' Sir G. GREY answered that no bill on the subject was in preparation by the government. DRAINAGE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The Earl of LINCOLN desired to be informed whether it was probable that the second reading of this hill would be liken before Easter. He was also anxious to hare returns of the number of applications, and the amounts, which had leen made for the 2,000,000/. which, according to &previous s tatement made by the right hon. baronet, still remained to be advanced. Sir G. GREY replied that the whole of the money had been applied for, and the returns would he Produced. With regard to the second reading of the bill, he intended to move it to-morrow night. It was important that the bill should pam without delay, for there erne great anxiety on the part of the proprietors of Scotland to avail themselves of these advance., which they could not do under the existing law. POOR-LAW GUARDIANS' ACCOUNTS. Sir W. JAMES was anxious to know whether the auditor would be justified in disallowing the accounts of a board of guardiaas, in respect to the legality of which they took a different view to that of the crown lawyers ? Sir 0. GREY thought the auditor would incur a serious responsibility by refusing to confirm the declared opinions of the tare-officers of the crown. The auditor was hound to allow all items in the accounts which were legal, and to dis allow those which were not, and if any party should be dissatisfied with his decision, they might appeal either to the Commissioners or the Court of Quceu's Bench. EMIGRATION. Mr. V. SMITH, in introducing his motion on this sub ject, admitted that compulsory emigration was abhorrent to the feelings of the people, and opposed to the spirit of popular isstitutions, he did not, therefore, propose to resort to it; nor did be ask that any large amount of the public ' revenue should be devoted to the purposes of an emigration fund. He thought, however, that looking at the crowded state of our cities—detrimental alike to the health and morals of the people—considering the great competition of labour i i the agricultural districts, and the low rate of wages consequent thereon —looking, too, at the statements received every day of the distress and misery existing in inland, end in many parts of Scotland, the change which the proposed abolition of the punishment of transportation would effect is many of our colonies, and the state of public feeling in the country, this was of all times the most potpie for considering this subject with the view to the adoption of sone practical and efficient system. He was aware that if he called for any large amount of money, thehance of the Exchequer would reply by tur turning his empty pockets ; but if he could show that, at a moderate expense, a system of emigration might be adopted which would be advantageous to the mother country and the colonies, he hoped he should obtain fur it the support of the house. His plans would be applicable to that new in practice under the Land and Emigration Board—a body so little known, that many members of that house were scarcely aware of their existent*. He might be asked how he would extend its sphere of action, and in answering, he would divide the subject into three heads: first, as to the manner of leaving these shores; secondly, as to the passage; and, thirdly, as to future location of the emigrants. Upon the question of leaving these shores, he regretted that the infor mation throughout the country . was so scanty as to afford no adequate means to persons anxious to emigrate of ascertain ing how they should set about it. Ile did not want the board to force emigration, but to promulgate useful infor mation upon the subject, and place the truth face to face with the false and delusive information which was industri ously and widely circulated by private societies. If the people could be induced to read the colonization circulars they would obtain all the information necessary; but means should be taken to induce them to do so. He would also recommend that circuits should be made round the country, to ascertain the feeling of particular localities, and to establish agents in the principal towns and districts, who would be at hand to direct those how to act who were de sirous of transporting themselves to other countries. Now such a mode of proceeding would, as he was prepared to show, be attended with no considerable expense, while it was the course which had been recommended by the plan of the noble lord (Russell). when he left the Colonial-office (a plan, however, which was never acted on), by Lord Sy.den ham Lord Grey, Sir C. Metcalfe, and others, best acquainted with our colonies. As to the question of passage, there were only ten outport agents in this country and Ireland— several ports, from which emigration was largely taking place, being without agents, as shown by the returns of Mr. Buchanan—and amongst the rest Hull, sending out in the year, 542 emigrants; Southampton, 174; Waterford 1,108; and New Rees, not far from that, 814. In the report of the migration agent himself, it was stated, that in Canada, out. d 0 prosecuti ins under the l'assengers Act, 5 had occurred Eon ports where there were no emigration agents. Mr. Mills, he ails pamphlet, stated, that, of 478 emigrant ships from Tad to Quebec, only 260 had been subjected to govern ment enmenivion, the remaining 218 having draped it alb:i =lk hoped the noble lord would be guided by these a nt resolve to perfect the system in 1847 which he nen In 1840, by establishiug more agencies, securing a MON extended supervision, and providing a better supenn teatime during the passage, by the appointment of a me thod ether, and other means, the expense of which could sot frighten even the most economical Chancellor of the Exchequer. Regarding the third point—the future location of the emigrants on landing—be would strongly recommend the system adopted in Australia and our easterncolonies, of dis persing the emigrants, by means of dispersing agents; for, as many persons went out who were wholly ignored how to pro =ermia i b twznolassary to have some one at hand todirect them. that be an expensive step, for very few agents WOW Olin IN: a very large number of emigrants. Upon thentheee heads then, great good might be effected by an —esboard, with freedom of action. There was ano ther sop requiring a remedy, namely, the enormous dispro ' piths between the sexes in our Australian colonies, but . e gra= in Van Diemen's Land. The government had comnisaiens for railways, poor-laws, and other sdelbetb ad he wow no reason why they should not ap petite • idler body for conducting the emigration of the eawsk He had alculated that 10 additional agents would n y. et 2,7451. Superintendents and medical officers on the , 15,0001, • and that the expense altogether, including = et of dispersing agents in the colonies, the =r amount of which be had no means of neer , would not exceed 20,0001. With regard to tenet emigration, he calculated that the sum of 10,0001. would be sufficient, making 30,0001. in all. He did not ask the house to do anything new, or to go into a wide and extensive scheme, or to spend millions, but, with the addition of a few thousand pounds, to carry out the plan whisk they themselves had sanctioned, and which was begun Witnoble lord in 1840. The right hon. gentleman oon by moving, " That in order to assist and encourage ' minstam emigration to the colonies, it is expedient to in - MUM the importance and authority of the land and emigres- Men beard, to add to their agency in Great Britain and Ire ne& and promote their vigilant superintendence of the pu mp and future location of the emigrants." MACK INNON seconded the motion, and shortly ex his opinion that it was better emigration should be fe r f e t . ;: d the hands of individuals than be entirely taken up by the government. Mr. LEPROY expressed his obligations to the right hon. gentleman for having introduced the subject. It was Mai important to have had such a plan brought bean the brae which was likely to afford a useful mode of relief to dm population of the United Kingdom, and was most valuable as regarded Ireland. Mr. KER in a few words expressed his approbation of the plan. Mr. HAWES assured his right hon. friend that he had se era= a urae of the manner, spirit, or ea disk be s"* had his motion. The subject woe, r dentik. em l l sigma Importance. He did not take exactly ale dm view of eke em lion board as his right hon. friend, the be thought he had rather underrated the exertions of that beard, which wen Ness, OA so mach to promote and stimulate emigra tion, se to sera thee which was voluntary. A refereeing to else had bees thrall the board would show that they had Waded nearly ell rat they could, and that had been dem sealossly. He onggestion which had been made by hls ajrt hen, Mend, which was calculated to give lacrimal - to the board, would be overlooked. In this Teel ten years, since the appointment of as • and the commissioners of = ll‘ a ma lesis sent to Australia 20,000 emigrate s. = Mee* Set retie, and 28,000 under its direct those, searag a teeth 048,000. This spot wee = 1 :6 6.1. 5p1e4 far yews* ef andgeeden untal it the by sari : Meey, ENT :4 7 appeethened the waste Ida is d o e ed . gamto had bean mat without any seraistat having MEd and had bees provided with as.. seise for the auperiaterienor which was swath had de aura the rartality in the ships. la the emit tithe it had loth 6 per rest, but in the latter sane it had hies reduced es 1 i per era, and me will was die thee= arrapied, that there was athray leis him of Mb he theenbipe en end lens voyages than the per rasps et the pepalades of This country. Take t o t= d 1111101111 VD ale West Idle% ankh lead been by the be. warmness In 1166 sad 1846 the mraramesis wens WWI -pen M ss. =Vthis new med. ad 70 ships bora oiles were takes tells West rarie sses = tbeembeibeenadeerfree deeertality. Among these whitetail - Ikea Malwatts, awing to eholers, it had been higher ; bat era* tbass IMO Madras it was eight-tenths ma mat. The Mina datreata alto had been transmitted in game It= I sd been usi to Oar leastiee. His right ten. badly the M of ows the =W se es rade dessaraoter be (Mr. Hawse) disk there was any rases Ass luresi spire, or tbat if i= l. ll; a pediedentery ebereder woad add to their . With rood tette, , pediemethary representation of the in dem bum, he ' Meet only my that they were under the dimities ef the • he the Colimies who was always a member of the ' ite 0. of the hoed et and di Odd to lift it 'tv. He wished to tsetse the =Wee reliably aalipitkia, pier itigromi le by those ea mid and • ender lbe edam beerdn'yaktbe sad Free) 18$71,1•11 iwi flit mug as ilipails77•lll=mbri gins ot , r i did not sweat their power, they should at least exhibit their dissatisfaction. He was asked that morning whether he.wistied to go to war ? to which be answered, that he was a man of peace, and that he was not for going to war ; but that as they had a certain portion of money within their power, intended and guaranteed to be paid under this treaty, they should not be bound to keep one portico of the stipulation while the other was broken. lf Russia did not keep its engagements with them, they were at liberty . to stop any further payment of that money. With these views he purposed to submit to the house the four resolutions which he held in his hand. The three first contained matters of fact, on which the fourth was founded. The treaty was framed for the purpose ei providing a balance of power in Europe, and there was no countrry which made greater sacrifices than England to this great object. There were three partitions of Poland,which took plate in 1772,1793, and 1795, but England never sanctioned such acts of robbery and plunder under the divides which was agreed to at Vienna. England then aseeiliimi her honour, and this wee an act of the grossest iogratitede M r a P ':l t t r e lt em by Emperor of f A c us r frn,rl,gln.ijltaadt whenat slcph,siaeocrinflwoes.. at the gates of Vienna, and when there was not a shilling in the country to support an army to meet him, England lent Austria 6 or 7 millions sterling to enable her to protect herself. Each of these treaties guaranteed the other, and they finally concluded with the treaty of Vienna, which was signed by all the monarchs of Europe excepting Spain—there being then no representative from the court of Madrid at Vienna. The King of Sweden appeared amongst the rest; and here he was reminded of the fact that we sanctioned the robbery by which Norway was given to Sweden. Lord Castlereagh, whom he had considered a cold-hearted, indifferent man, stated that this spoliation had given him great trouble. Lest there should be any doubt that we were bound to protect Cracow, he would refer to the first article in the treaty between the three powers, Austria, Rus sia, and Prussia, and recognised by the 118th section of the general treaty, and it was this Cracow, with its territory, shall be considered for ever no a free, independent, and strictly neutral city, under the protection of the three high contracting powers." Then the following article was intro duced : Tbenneetteerts atop tempest, and to muse to be respected, sun tiros as antrolley of the fro thy of Cracow and id territory; and as snarl three oast h pan say pretence whatsoever. On the Other lin, it is misisamth cal ezpreally stipulated that the free city did weer, et Oruro shith ast 'nerd any asylum or protection b 1101111111, Isalaftsy or prnn oder prosecution, belonging to the esanner detain cite arse usuerelite Powers; and thd on desandsf *air wanesise WtY impugn authorities, such tn. annals be smith want &by, sad delivered up, under a proper nowt, Is Ile pith opplatol to naive them at the frontier. The noble lord (Lord Palmerston) had very properly shown that no suck requisitioa had taken place, and it had also been proved that so soak pawn could have been in Cracow, without its having bon known to the authorities. This, however, was not the first violation of the treaty. The Em peror of Russia had violated the treaty as to the kingdom of Poland, made at the same time, and incorporated with the treaty of Vienna. He had con demned some of the members of the Diet of Warsaw to sweep the streets—he had confiscated property, and, after having guaranteed the liberty of the press, he had destroyed it. It was said that Lord Grey protested against this violation of the treaty in 1839; if so, he should like to see the protest. They ought to have the wickedness of these men, these violators of oaths and treaties, laid open to public condemnation. (Hear, hear.) The Emperor of Russia had been utterly reckless of the treaty of Vienna, and we ought to disconnect ourselves with each faithless and unprincipled men—we ought to stand slue, instead of being dragged with them into such treaties. Year by year, and step by step, the treaty had been violated, until nothing remained of it. Every article of the treaty, as regarded Poland, had been broken by Ruses, until, in 1832, the constitution of that unhappy country was for mally put an end to, since which the people had been banished to Siberia for political offences—their religion had been abolished, and the revenues of the national churches appropriated to the purposes of another creed—and this fact, he hoped, would secure him the support of the hon. baronet the member for the University of Oxford(Sir R. H. Inglis)— Thousands of children had been dragged away to be taught the Russian language ; the Poles, in tact, had been forbidden the use of their own language—had been robbed of all their public institutions, which by the treaty the emperor pledged himself to maintain, and made the serfs anti slaves of an un relenting tyrant. Lord Castlereagh stated, that the whole object of the British minister at Vienna was to settle per manently the peace of Europe and to preserve the balance of power ; but the legal sanction given by theConerusof Vienna to the settlement of territories then made was at en end. the partition of Poland was no longer legal—(hear, hear) — and all Europe was free from the yoke placed upon it by the treaty of Vienna—(hear, bear)—and each country was at liberty to assert its own independence. The right to restore Poland free and entire existed. (Hear, hear.) He did not know why the same rule should not apply on the Rhine and the Po as on the Danube, and why the states which had suffered spoliation should not revert to their original owners. The rogues had quarrelled, and those whom they had robbed should have a chance of restitution. (Hear, hear.) He thought all the subjects of the northern tyrants were ab solved from their allegiance. The day might come when the twenty-two or twenty-three millions of Poles might be reined to resistance, for what had taken place rendered phy sical force the rule of the day. (Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") The destruction of Cracow as a free state destroyed the au thority of European law—there was no longer any interna tional law in Europe, for if this violation was allowed, the faith of all treaties was gone. (Hear, hear.) He went further, and ventured to say that such proceedings threatened the peace of Europe it was but one step towards further acts of aggression, which was in some measure proved by the correspondence that had lately taken place between Austria, Russia, Prussia, sad the government of Switzerland, in which the three northern powers in the , same note had the impudence—alter the annexation of Cra ' cow—to speak of their being faithful to international obli gations (a greater falsity was sever pronounced before any criminal judge in the world), and they then proceeded to speak of their desire to cultivate friendly relations as long as the federal government in Switzerland was main tained entire ; any departure from which might there fore afford a pretext for further aggression. (Hear, hear.) It behoved that bowie to expresa, in language not to be mis taken, their abhorrence of the proceedings of these powers, who thus trampled nationalties under foot. (Hear, hear.) While they left the government of the country free, he thought the House of Commons ought to manifest their feel lap, at least, as far as they were under pecuniary obliga tions to the Emperor of Russia. As he violated the treaty ▪ Vienna, they ought, in justice to themselves and the 'Weed world, to stop his pay. The noble lord opposite (Lord G. Bentinck) said there was music and dancineand rejoicing in Cracow for what had been done. But these were demonstrations on the part of the oppressors, and not of the oppressed. He would now proceed to show that they were no longer bound to pay to the Emperor of Russia the money which had been heretofore paid to him. By the 4th article of the convention agreed to by Great Britain, Russia, and the Netherlands, which was included in the treaty of Vienna, this money was to be paid to Russia on account of what was called the Russo-Dutch loan on two conditions, but in par ticular as long as Belgium should remain in possession of the King of the Netherlands, and the payment was to continue from 1815 to 1915. The act of Met Geo. 111. was pseud to enable his Majesty to carry that convention into Abet, and the money was accordingly paid till 1831. In 1830, the re velation in Belgium and her separation from Holland took place. This country sanctioned and supported that separation but continued to pay the money. He (Mr. Hume) ob jected to the payment, but the government were opposed to him. On mound thoughts, however, they were obliged to bring in an act of parliament to carry . out a new conven tion made between England and Russ ia, with which Hol land Lad nothing to do. That convention was stated to be made for the purpose of explaining and rendering the letter and spirit of the former agreement more consonant to the present state of things ; and Great Britain agreed thereby ' to secure to Russia the payment of a portion of her old Dutch debt, in consideration of the general arrangement of the Congress of Vienna, to which the had given her eh , hesion ; arrangements which remain in full foree." This was the position of affairs on the 16th of Nov., 1831. The act of the 2nd and 3rd of William IV., e. 81, was passed to enable his Mejesty to carry out that conventioa ; when Belgium had been separated,from Holland the former act and agreement had been set asde. All that he wanted was that the same thing should be done now that Ramis had violated the treaty of Vienna. (Hear, hear.) she was a party concerned in the absorption of Cracow, sad rho bad no right to profit by her own injustice. He did not urge the house to take this step on his own opinion. A Iserned civilian had given his opinion that they were absolved by law from the observance of the treaty in consequence of that att. The honourable and learned member for Min eola (Mr. Watson) had put into kis hands extracts from I Vestal, which showed that the whole treaty wee vio lated when some of its stipulations were broken. He had extracts of the same kind from Grotius snit Marten. From 1816 to 1846 inclusive they paid to Buds a=a equal to 3,374,47 W., end the further sun tthry Wait have to pay upto 1916 would. be 3,917,1871., Meth. • nisi 7,291,6661. That was a pretty sum for a aliteeeedl et= with only a surplus revenue of 60,0001. to pay. Bat having violated the engagements on which they paid this money, they ought to stop her pay. By acting is this Rummer they would only be supporting her Mori= taut Let them not be afraid of the whiskers at aims. Let them act justly, and no longer submit to the ampreeties of paying this money, and let the British Sew Canners show to the civilised world that they wadi test suffer, so fir es it was in their power, at least, this inthathisn of th e treaty of View. The hon. gentleman eemlailet amidst hod ohms, mans the followin reseistlea Aid thio boon, the Withal oiservera es Othint demos, er Wooed et the Mk thug . Jan. Ile; as the al *a pan arekteihre of VW alai aid Wigwam the nosrpaihn of the re Mat Cosseth sal of Its *marry, Me the own of Anteds, Ity Arne of a asstantan Intarall Ws at Vim', ea the sir asps! NWNINNet nags bf hewn ath Ueda. ft =WM itusa of the sail trarth. it moms. kg minas 101 l Win pallanath On Ors les sheath am lethisid Son Os Babb = dwk - tanals tas s alpi ..fain halors• Ithe lan alai therms 1114 sal NA ban hriadth son al el m ." 3:llrons, 1174,41 th death yaw' alai Yet the et the nth lolonst of the pa of Oa Moth ottplatainVE set let sod led of Vain the thronte, sop. s 4 vlit mph* Senn im s olansols hen dr DMA Tranory oath the par 1918, 4704,2 th 5t=17,11171. t he nosey, --whin Ora On thgropts 1,291,9161, sod the sways ter ate = 6 ::: 72,9111 L 'A l it the Cleandlia of the 1110 th belorms kr Msartig lbe Wag ef Oteat MUM sod sod Ys Bonne of all the liossies, no Ws la with the ifores of Ye teeny benne Oren lsrlsda, Mods, ad the teeetatemilos etipse at Lodes to he tab der et My, IPAltad ninbpth, la the ate thins ; sth thst atisa vas agreed (Mat Prins ae noon as Moth ly son e orn of a partite of Yr di Mash debt la anithollin of foe - patent arrsagewasai of ths saes. pas of Wm, is nab die had peso law nagging, phith mob la ten nos." ass snag. Is, Ohm elm 11. of GOMM LA Rtosi► bolas irllbinn On ad bona, sni then arreopeneis bang, trop her an, as hoger la hay% the porno Inn this gawky, es sass eetat hat dm, dwell hoothelle weepoiee. Lord BANDON said that though he could not concur in WWI of the expressions which had been used by the hoe, gentleman towards powers with whom they were on terms of friendly 'ahem*, he believed him to be right in the main object of his address, and on that amount he felt fully war ranted in seconding the motion. Perhaps the most remark able part of the whole of these transactions was the disguee and cautious reserve adopted by the powers alluded to, which showed that they were engaged on matters on which they could not fairly face the world. (Hear, hear.) Their anxiety to keep their movements disguiad from Europe, and more especially from England and France as to the course they intended to pursue, not only by sup pression, but the expreseion of that which was not correct, was most remarkable. All the communications which they made to England and France, conveyed to the mind that these powers had no other intention than such a modifica tion of the mite of Cracow as might snit the eirctuustances of the case. The point as to the loan was one about which be should like to hear some further explanation, for there was great ambiguity in the terms. When in 1831, in con sequence of the modification of circumstances, it became ne cessary to negociate a new convention to carry out the spirit rather than the letter of the original treaty, there were in troduced these words : "To secure to Russia the payment, by England, of a portion of the said Dutch debt, in pursu• ance of the general arrangements of the treaty of Vienna, to which Russia gave her adhesion, and which arrangements in full force." The inference was, that the pay ment by England of this debt, capital, or interest was to be regulated by the continued allowance by Russia "of the general arrangements of the treaty of Vienna, which arrangements remain in full force," and that, conse quently, the arrangements being departed from, England was at liberty to withhold payment. And certainly, if England were so at liberty to withhold that payment, he felt that they would only be doing their duty in expressing the sense which all parties in the house entertained of the great mischief of such a violation of treaties asked been com• mimed bythe three allied powers,and more especially by Russia. On the noble lord resuming his seat, there were loud calls for Lord Palmerston, mingled with cries of " Divide." At length Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said With reference to the motion which has been made by my hon. friend the member for Montrose, I shall, without entering into the general argument which has been stated by him, and by my noble friend opposite, shortly state the view which I take of this question. With regard to the argument which has been stated, that the three powers were not justified by the treaty of Vienna in cencluding for themselves the oonsideratiun whether the free state of Cracow should be maintained or extinguished,—with regard to that argument, I cannot but concur in the sentiment expressed by my hon. friend, and the noble lord who sec-Jaded his motion. (Hear, hear.) I think that it is clear, from the words of the treaty of Vienna, from the prominence which all the arrangements with respect to Poland took, both in the conferences preceding the treaty, and in the articles of the treaty itself, I think it is clear from such considerations that these articles were not an immaterial part of that treaty, but that they did form one principal stipulation, on which the great powers of Europe had agreed, on the conclusion of a bloody and destructive war. (Hear, hear.) Nor can I think, that while the ar rangements with respect to the Duchy of Warsaw, those which placed it under the dominion of the Emperor of Russia, formed the subject of many discussions and of less correspondence, not only between the ministers, but also that singular correspondence which took place between the Minister of Foreign Affairs of this country and the Em peror of Russia himself—l cannot think that while those arrangements formed a principal part of the treaty, the arrangement which left a small portion, a mere particle, as the allied powers called it, free and independent, that that stipulation was an immaterial ass insignificant point of the treaty. (Hear, hear.) It ammet but appear, I think, that however small that territory miry be, however small the population of that state, yet that the treaty framed first between the three powers, and then by all the powers who were concurring parties to the treaty of Vienna, which provided that Cracow should be free and in• dependent, meant that that freedom and independence should leave to Poland, at least to some portion of the Polish nation, a separate existence, and that giving up much—admitting much—to the Emperor of Russia, it was yet consecrated as a principle that some portion of the Polish nation should retain an independent and sepa rate existence. (Hear, hear.) For those reasons, there fore, I think that its existence as a state having thus been secured by the general treaty, that whatever complaints the three powers had to make that Cracow was a foam of dis turbance, that revolutionary intrigues there found a centre and means of organization, that there rose from that small state insurrections against the three powers, that it was im possible to preserve those powers from such insurrectione, still I think that if these reason were good sad valid, if they were felt to have been strong, they should have been stated to England and France. (Hear, hear.) I think that Eng land and France should have been invited to a congress, or some species of conk fence, in which their consent should have been asked to put an end to the state of things which the three powers had declared to be intolerable, and which they could no longer permit with safety to themselves. (Hear, hear.) So much I think is clear from the general construction of the treaty of Vienna, and also from the pas sage which my noble friend read from the statement of the Prussian minister for foreign affairs. In that statement the Prussian minister admits in words, that if the arrangements of the treaty of Vienna were to be altered and set aside, conference and agreement with England and France would be • necessary preliminary. In the next place, with regard to the reasons given by these three powers, and stated more amply by Prince Metternich on behalf of Austria, they seem to me to be insufficient for the violent p eau which have taken place. (Hear, hear.) I cannot imagine that there could not have been precautions taken, which, however they confined and limited the action of the free and independent state of Cracow, would yet have been security for the three powers ; that its name and inde pendence might have been maintained, while all danger from refugees—from its being made a place where strangers from all parts congregated and planned conspiracies—might have been defeated and prevented. It does seem to me most extraordinary that this little etate, this mere atom, sur rounded by Russia, Austria, and Prussia, those three mighty monarchies, with such vast military powers, suck unbounded means, having the :command of all the roads leading to Oracow—having the power of marching troops at any moment into the country—having themselves certain rights constituted and assigned to them in the treaty of Vienna, should find itself so powerful as succenfully to re sist all their attempts to prevent its being dangerous to their safety. (Hear, hear.) I cannel think that those three powers had sincerely, earnestly, and vigilantly used all their powers in order to prevent Crathw being a focus of distur bance. I cannot but think that in the latter part of these transactions, when all government was dissolved in Cracow, and when disorganization had taken place, that that was not an unwelcome circumstance • that it was not at all ungsal•- tab's to the three power*, because it enabled them to say all means of government is gone ,• Cracow is in a state of anarchy and disorder, and no remedy remains but the total abolition of its independence." (Cheers.) I think, therefore, both as regards the treaty of Vienna, the importance of the di prdation regarding Cracow, and also with regard to the reasons urged for art extinction, that in the first place there woo a manifest violation of the treaty of Vienna, and Ithiesktlati ft he question had been discussed in Congress, there bnesollbilat proof, as far as we can see ' that the three powers mil base shown to England and France sufficient reams hr the course they have adopted. (Hoar, hear.) Neither am I convinced by the instances given by the minister of Austria of various stipulations of the treaty of Vienna which have been altered by mutual agreement between princes concerned in this treaty, and whose territories were affected by ft. Small portions of his principality given by a Duke of Cobourg, and others transferred for some equivalent to other persons for mutual convenience, all these things are natural and obvious alterations of the treaty of Vienna, which might take place without appeal to all the powers who signed the treaty, and would in my mind bear no resemblance to this great and important stipula tion, in which all the powers were agreed. (Hear, hear.) Supposing an arrangement was made between Austria and Prussia for the annexation to their own dominions of the kingdom of Saxony, what reason for that act would it be to say that some little bits of territory had been exchanged between some minor powers without due reference to the provisions of the treaty of Vienna. (Hear, hear.) It would clearly be no satisfactory argument, and upon the same ground, I consider the extinction of this free state • manifest violation of the provisions of that treaty. (Cheers.) But my hon. friend, not Waded with the protest upon this sub join d which the Seastor, of State for Foreign Affairs has directed to be delivered at the courts of the throe principally interested, whim this house to concur rit . e resolutions which he ken *eel upon paper. Wick to the first of these neeliaden s my noble friend to is in accordance with the media : with regard to the he is net so entirely agreed, sad be doubts if the house aught to meant to it. Now, with regard to the first resolution, which Metes "that this house views with alarm and indiguetion the of Cracow in the empire of Ausbrie r '' I eismild beg ial =e dm ine to consider that them is a wet be tween then which has been dons by my sable Mend, in obedience to the command of her Majesty, sad that whisk is now proposed to be done by this house. It is the of the anent to make treaties, to enter into end sosormosfa, to carry out the oorrespeodenes awl rah duns it' ibis oreatay with foreign powers,—so that every treaty, may en eras, every written and preens] sommtraskohea link • foreign state, is carried IS la the name mad by the command of the sovereign. If a treaty has been signed end ratified, as this treaty was signed and ratified, by a minister of England, in the name of George 111. and the Prince Regent, and if any violation of that tenaty takes place, the person on whom it devolves to make • representation, or to record a protest, is obviously the minister of the ervegeign of England, by whom the orri sisal treaty wasemideied. But with regard to the functions r apidiese llear " , borr hma4 .) ink tbim iblir airit ilm a treaty mess of aiswvhishmadeery different nature. LatUre oo c. r . - ot die bar It it usual to NIL bur that emosommoo 1 is the tom reaivet soltakkor Gomm% it is she .aril to ink /sr dot ermestesee. BeS Is albs a resolution white is not duo Wu& of airmadlir bike the House of Commons--a remind= ISerely an opinion of sleds home on the eniesot of a treads= of is not a mad as a ardor course of proceeding in this assembly. (Kw, Um) It appears to me, sir, that, whilst it is obviously incumbent on the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and on the advisers of her Majesty, to declare their sense of any violation of a treaty, it is not advisable that the House of Commons should affirm • resolution with respect to the conduct of foreign pewees, unless it is intended to follow up the resolution by some measure or mike, on the part of the executive. (Load cries of " Hear, hear!") I never admired the conduct of the French Chambers in this respect in regard to Poland. It is usual for the Chamber of Deputies, at the commencement d overy session, to record their protest against the acts of the Emperor Nicholas, and to make • declaration of the nationality of Poland. I own I think the opinion of that assembly loses much of its weight and potency by being sa made without being in any way followed up,—by the record of such a resolution, without any action following the dn. claration. (Hear, hear.) Let it be observed how great a difference there in between such a re-olution and the COQ duet of a sovereign. The sovereign, by making the treaty, is forced, in the event of its infringement, in some way or other to signify either favour of that infringement, or tan acquiescence in it, or else to remonstrate or to protest against it. But the House of Commons, not being under the treaty, is in smithery . cases not necessitated to make any declaration of opinion. I see no advantage which can attend such a declaration. I think the home would t rain nothing in dignity, in force, or in respect, by sa alteration of its usual practice in these exam. Whilst, there fore, I have no objection to urge against the words of the first resolution itself, this is the reason why I do object to its being made a resolution of this house, and why I should be disposed to move, if it were persisted in, that the house do consider "the previous question." (Hear.) With regard to the second and third resolutions, I should be disposed to act in a like manner; bat with regard to the last, " that this house is of opinion that the payments from this country on account of the Russo-Dutch debt, should b e henceforth suspended," that resolution raises another and a differeut question. Sir, the arrangements at the time of the treaty of Vienna involved a union of Belgium with Holland, and there having been a debt in Holland payable by Russia, Great Britain took upon herself the payment of the interest of that debt, in consideration of Russia being a party to the arrangement by . which Holland and Belgium were united, and agreeing to maintain it. (Hear, hear.) When, alter a lapse of yearn, the two countries of Holland and Belgium became separat ed, Russia, of course, no longer attempted to maintain the arrangement, and therefore, by the letter of the treaty, England might then have said to Russia, "As you do not comply with the letter of the treaty, we are free from the discharge of the interest of your debt." But, although that might have been in accordance with the letter of the treaty, it would have been most inconsistent with the justice of the case • for th e country which, of all others, especially promoted the separation of Belgium from Holland, was England herself—(hear, hear)—and, therefore, for England to have said, " be cause you do not maintain that union which we have wished to see dissolved, we shall not pay the interest of this debt," would have been such an evasion of the engagement under the treaty of Vienna, that I certainly could not have taken part in it. (Hoer, hear.) But, sir, the engagement under the treaty of Vienna was not by na evaded. England, being tree from the letter of that engags meat, made a new engagement with Russia, by which the agreed to continue the payment of the interest of this debt, The real ground for continuing that payment wee. that Russia had abided by the general arrangements eft& treaty of Vienna, and that it was only in con.equeueo ad acts sanctioned by England herself, that a different state of things had arisen. But, undoubtedly, in this second agno men% words were introduced which secured to Russia the payment of a portion of the Dutch debt, "in consideration of her adhesion to the general arrangements of the Congress of Vienna." Those words were introduced at the request of the representatives of Russia herself, in order to show that whilst Russia had departed from the original meat, yet that she was not to be accused of any arrange Eith or violation of the general treaty. But still, as I think, the original agreement, and the original reason for it, remained in force. That original agreement was, that Russia should corcur with Envland with respect to the territorial division of Holland and Belgium, and, arising out of this particular arrangement, there wee no other question referring to the other clauses of the treaty of Vienna. Ruin chose of her own accord to desire these words to be inserted, but so fur as we were concerned, we did not wish them to be recorded. I sac, therefore, that having rifled to the spirit of this arrangement, I do not think it would be just to take advantage of the insertion of the words; and Mara having, so far as Belgium and Holland are concerned, faithfully observed her meats, I do not think, that in point a or n C dealing or of justice, we should be justified in refusing to pay for her the interest of this debt. (Hear.) I do think, however, that according to the wording of the ar rangement we might as fairly refuse payment. We might say " you caused their insertion ; it was with your sanction the arrangement was thus drawn, mid we will take ad vantage of those words and refuse payment of the amount." That would be conformable with one interpretation of the treaty. Those whom we have consulted as the highest au thorities as to the interpretations of acts of parliament bear ing upon treaties, the legal authorities usually consulted on such matters have told us that, according to the spirit of the arrangement entered into by the treaty and the convention, this money ought to be paid. (Hear, bear.) It in, at the most, stating it as favourably as you can for the motion of the honourable gentleman, • doubtful point, ou which, if we wished to take an advantage, we might possibly claim it from some words in the conversation, but in my opinion it would be acting directly againstits spirit were we thus to take advantage of a plea which in a court of law might be urged to get rid of a contract, but which, as between nations, ought never to be used. (Hear.) We should, I think, lower our position and deprive ourselves of that advantage we now possess, if we were to reduce this to a transaction of pounds, shillings., and pence. (Hear.) I consider that in the late transactions of Europe, though ea more than one occasion. and by different powers our wishes have not been complied with; our desires have not been listened to ; our protests even have been disregarded; yet there does remain with us a moral strength whisk no power can effect. No power can charge us with having violated treaties; no stipulations have we esteem! into, of which it can be said England has violated her engagements, or set them at nought. (Hear, hear.) We are ready, in the face of Europe, however inconvenient some of those stipulations may be to us, to hold ourselves bound by all our engagements, and keep the naroo—nie fame and the honour of the crown of England unsullied, — (hear, hear,)—and to hold that uneallied honour se • jewel s which we will not suffer to be tarnished. (Hear, keen) With that sentiment, sir, if I could ask my noble friend go to the count, and say, to be sure you have entail a treaty—to be sure you have extinguished an indentation ' state—though we know this to have been done, you ski have no threats of war frost us—we shall not arm for the purpose of war—we shall admit the state of Cracow to be henceforth extinguished, and her inhabitants reined* subjection—we shall admit that the names freedom and& dependence to them are lost for ever; but this we wills, there is • claim of some thousands which we on tab against you, and which we now pay for you — we willow throw the b urden on your shoulders ' and so we wi ll Tenn ourselves for this your violation of the treaty—l say lir we did this we should be taking a pent and using bagasse unbecoming the past character of England, or the poll& which I would have her hold for the future as ageing*, world. (Cheers.) Having thus stated my opined is strongly as I could on this transaction, I ask you now, set to come, in this House of Commons, which does net samill without great provocation, interfere with the foreign Ws tions of the empire—not to come to any idle resolutesa ysn which you do not intend to act—(hear)—and, is the assl place, not to look upon the question as a nag matter of money value—not to go and ask how unit this Russian debt stock may be worth in the market, en how mach we shell free ourselves from by refusing MOW payment ; but I wish you toy reserve that which [Until ' Inestimable value. I wish yen to allow, as the home his hitherto allowed by its silence, the protest of the Swaim" for Foreign Affairs to remain in full force, es &doffs:Mica Cil our part, which will have its value depend on it with re rto future transactions, and show that we eethem the faith of treaties, and thus, with zin gad to matters that may hereafter himpen,.... 6a lst go have it to say that we have soug ht no interest of in these matters—we have look ed at no interest, Wit petty, concerning ourselves, but have regarded only thee& interests of Europe in desiring that that settlement, 11110 put an end to a quarter of a century of war and blesithad should remain in its full force and vigour. We hare nand that sentiment to the world, and we trust the reprobating& which this transaction has been met, will, for the Mask* duce all powers—however they may desire to violate gong —to consider that they will meet with the dinstmegellie monstrance and protest of England, and that ear nag& shall stand before the world untarnished by ally Setae& (Cheers, and cries of " Adjourn.") A desultory discussion ensued ; and ultimately, t siderable opposition on the part of Mr. T. Duncons, fY adjournment of the debate until Thursday nett agreed to. FACTORIES BILL. .T a his ora b er l d w to as be commi recommi tted p aa ro d f; . ormo the , reported to the halls The house adjourned at twenty-five minutes to onseden FACTORIES BILL. Dram's on question of going into committee on this NI Ayst, NM ; Noes, 100. AYES. kiwis, James Hooey J. D. 8. Howard, P. H. Primer B. Arivmd, Sir T. Dux J. lindwas, O. ... r , r . i,. AcalinkT.. D. Dunowniresiboa. Hurd, .7.. H. klintleDer. Dunce:an* A. Homey, T. P. Dandaa, Admiral Isgtia, Gtr B. IL laplall• 4 riaZ i t._ Dundaa, en* tar J. RIM 5 •••• L, Do Pre, CoC. O. .1 dunce, Oen. laila IL E M A2 Z bli d ilerfeY Winston. Vie. Johialooe, Sir 1./M.ll QM of Egertun, Sin P. Jolliffe, Olf W. Rai% H. I. Ma, W. licrublc, H. g i t i . D. L WM* W. Entwiale, W. Isarabloo, H. zoiom aph qtr,Mayan, R. Law, Rom C.& A, Ewart, W. LIMO. A. OEN% 1 10 ..11. 0. Moires E. Lefroy, A. emgoay r.B. roma. w. B. Limo& Lord.. Ili=lialLW. PIN* O. woo, Boa N. MA IL IL ," lkshiar,J. Flimsy, Lord C. Nacaralay, Ha. UMW, L Z L J. Omsk I. Ploitwood, Sir P. al.COwlaey i jt A. mew =it WI L Y.. iiT l t. = ICIIL Hero IL Or/dear, J. D. Malows, Lord J. MO. BbalsawratW.l. Ouloril. J. m. sunk. WI of ado, H. pJ, . er s& i. Il aleellowa, Capt. Marsema, J. qt ISOM_7., IL V ,anal DwOreld4 ties, W. Dridrl .lt. Oa* - erpot 11.001004 J. IL Ilmilikaii j• Warr! .' avel. H. erg 0n.% B. Kara, G. HorPrt U. Vlwl• '''''.....i. IMP* Lad ink e a firm" 031. Osawroar.lAlL. Xiad), O. E. M. aria Hallsr m . ‘, C. Heard. Sr H. Moat; 6 L HaDar, E. HA He B. Napier, Sir C. Ilwabary, W.Y. Bal. *lord Noodoistr, C. Sioor. e , =li: c. Haw, T. P. Newry, last. Trwoirliaa. P. 6 Ise,, O. A. Nairn., Lord l• " 0.8. O. O. Crßaioo, A. I Mt% IL a. cv.ceerks, s N s .," rs amtha %C. Oral ' =I.D..iozZAIN I . La. Lllalar, W. = 6 : J. t Chimakrr Sir K.Hervey, Lord A. +. =IL ebil=trpdA.=l7l'C. • " PLI ) NP. I.Dr C. W Wwft......... 1 4 , M='r. R. Hodge" F. = si t 8,, 1. .a7g . a, Bodin" I. Cowper, H . W, Braced, L Palma IL tow& Cozad; H. B. Hope, A. Msgr. DMZ Davies, D. A. Hamby, J. Pabowlsit,"nmdam. . D'Epacoort,C.T.Hothao.. 1 . 414 rios irid r" .- SNOWNOr f • Diddles" F. 11. Howard, lin. C. PolhtD, • Cur Del Dee Der Dui Dui Dui Y' of C ro a a • . 1