The Express. — London, England, 1853-07-01 00:00:00

131PEItIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LOROS.—TituitinAT, JUNE 30. The Witt. ii s tekkoa rook his seat at S o'clock. PURCHASE OF N Et; Itolis ON Till; AIItICAN cuAs . r. Lied BROUGHAM wish il to ask the noble duko oppo site If he was aware of • proclamation issued by Governor Roberts, the governor of Liberia, an American colony, in whiehaie featured to • contract between her Britannic Majesty's government and Messrs. Hyde, ll , Alges, and Company. contractors f.r the furnishing of free negroes; and ,tried that thy bad if red an advance of ten dollars upon the price of those unhappy beings? The Duke of NEWCASILE had not sten the proclama tion to which the noble and leaned lord bad alluded ; but that was not very important, because he was aware that an arrangement had been made, he was not sure whether by the Comma! Office, but by its sanction, by which Messrs. Hyde and Hodge, for some stipula'ed amount, had agreed to introdi.ee free negro*. from the coast of Africa to the West India Colonii s. This could not be allowed to take place without the most careful watchfulness on the part of the home government against any abuse arising from it which would justify any statement such as that to which the noble sur.d I d lord alluded, but which would give rise to the nulled surnifion that such abuse existed. Earl GREY thought it right to:state how the matter arose in the year lilt, There was at that time great dia tree,' is the West India Colonies, and it was arranged that liberated Africans ri &cued from slavery, who Were :willing to go to the West India Colonies, should be sent there at the expense of this country. Messrs. Hyde and Hodge were most respectable ship- ownets who had entered into • contract to perform this service; and they had executed it in a most satisfactory 'wanner. COLONIAL BISHOPS ACTS EXTENSION BILL. The bill was read a second time. PA'IItONAGE EXCHANGE BILL. The bill was read a second time. EXCISE DITTIES ON SPIRITS BILL. This hill passed through committee, and was reported to the house. JUVENILE MENDICANCY (No. 2) BILL. The bill then passed through committee pro forma. THR STATE OF JAMAICA. The Duke of NEWCASTLE then made a statement respecting the Island of Jamaica, where, as the house was aware, the dissension between the Assembly on the owe hand, the Governor and the Council on the other, had risen to such • height as to produce • total cessation of internal overnment. It had been toned that the constitution of Jamaica, which had existed since the time of Charles 11. abouaded in such anomalies as to render any combintel action tit tavern the Governor and the Assembly impossible; and the recent conduct of that body, io refusing to pass any money bills, had resulted in • loss of about 1,000/ achy to the colonial revenue. As the term of office of the pre sent Governor had expired, the government proposed to supply his place by Mr. Barlty. late Governor of Guiana,' who would accept the office at • reduced salary, the greater portion of which would be paid at home. Several other offices, of which there were far too many in the island, would he shortly abolished, Vie present holders receiving a a moderate compensation. The debt of the island amounted to 700,0031, on which interest ems paid at 6 per cent. It was proposed that 500,000/ should bo raised, at • lower rate of interest, on the credit of this country, and that that amount of the island debt should be paid off, thus effecting a saving in interest of about 15,000; a yesr, • portion of which saving was to be appropriated as • sinking fend, so as to pay off the debt in a period of 30 years. The noble Duke then alluded to re forms in the conatitetioe which be hoped might be introduced by the exertions of the new governor, and after holding out a hope of further financial assistance under certain conditions, concluded by expressing his conviction that what was now proposed would tend not only to the imasediat • advantage ofJamaica, but evememlly to the esibbileismont of better goverment in the island. The Earl of DERBY—Nat may Om the imam jest suggest d by the noble duke, het aim hasten the measure awl( was not yet before the howee, would refrain from entering fully into the .u*et before the house. lie thought it would be remanent le ester into any discussion of the details of Mims to be pursued, and still more into the causes of the eireamelm we which had lead to the present dead loath the affairs of Jamaica. At the same time he thought it right to say that, as far as he had fol lowed the statement of the noble duke, so far from finding fault with the course proposed to be pursued by her Majesty's government, it was nearly the same as that which the late government had intended to follow. Earl GREY believed that the best assistance that *old be given to Jamaica would be such an administration on the spot as would carry out the necessary reforms. If that was dose, he had no doubt that Jamalsa would get out of her difficulties. She had every element of success; a large population, a soil of great fen tility, and a titillate which rendered that soil productive; nature had denied her nothing to smite her great, rich, and prosperous, and all she wanted was that her natural advisor tages should be called out byjadiodenelepisistion, aid 'edit once in the advancing of deseares for that penises from this country. He believed that at this time Ja maica would more nattily set en such advice than at any other time, and if the present crisis was taken advan tage of great future danger would be avoided ; but if the present etas of things went on, and a large and unin structed population become possessed of unrestricted power, it would be impassible to talus too sloes, a view of the prospects of Jamaica. Viscount ST. VINCENT was understood to express his regret, as a proprietor of 'Masa estate% that some more decided course had not bees taken by the ent at the present crisis ; he adverted te the dm affording a supply of labour, and expressed as coddle the colony was utterly ruined, sad had me pumped etmelesatien. Lord WHARNCLIFFE did net Kew with the noble viscount who had just spoken in the view he had taken of the present social condition and the future of Jamaica. The noble lord this be date his satisfaction at the coarse takes die odds duke (Newcastle) in order to put the ammo mod the adminis tration of the colony on a better footing. He thought a reform in the mode of collecting in the revenue was most desirable. After • few words from Earl Sr. VINCINT, the papers were ordered to lie upon the table. SECONDARY PUNISHMENTS. The LORD CHANCELLOR laid upon the table a bill for substituting in certain eases other punishmenU than that of transportation. The bill provided that the criminal should be subjected to imprisonment for • certain number of years, and after that imprisonment be should be em ployed upon public works at the discretion of the Secretary of State for the Home Department. The bill was read a first time. Their lordships then adjourned at a quarter past eight o'fiock. HOUSE OF UOMMONS.—TiIUESDAT, AIN! 30. Tha &maim took tho chair at a gustier before four o'clock. NEW *EMBER. Mr. E. HouttaihTiolt theaietie and his seat for the borough of Stroud, in the roots of Lord Moreton, who has succeeded to the peerage by the title of Earl Ducie. The hon. member was introduced by Mr. Bouverie and Sir J. Ititessden. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Bayswater, Paddington, and Holborn Bridge Rail way, the Birkenhead Deck Compaq, the Birkenhead Dock Trustees, the Llyavi Valley Railway, the London and North Westera and Buckinghamshire Railways, the Leri da' and North Western Railway (Tring end Oztord), the Neweeetle-npon-Ties Improvement, the Pendleton, Swin ton, de., Read, tle Swamies Valley Railway, and the Pieelleo Improvement, Bills, wen read a third time and peene Thd. e Boston and Conatim Railway and Docks, the South etawbbize Railw ay, the Battersea Perk, and the Harwich Desks and Pier, Bills, were considered and ordered to be read a third time. PUBLIC BUSINESS. DURATION OF TUE INDIA BILL. Mr. WARNER asked the President of the Board of Control whether, in the event of the house eonsenting to the second reading of the India Bill, her Majesty's govern ment would be willing, I. compliance with the expressed opinion of many members of the house, to insert a clause limiting the duration of the intended act to some certain short term of years, say two Of three years ? Lord J. Rt. SSELL said the Fovernmont would not be willing to insert any clause limning the duration of the act . but it would be in the power of the house when in committee to make such alter►tions as it might see St. THE PARIS EXHIBITION OF 183.5. Mr. W. BROWN begged to ask Lord J. Russell whether any arrangement had ben made, and, if so, what that at raagetnent was, fur the admission of goods from this country to France for the Industrial Ilahibition of all Nations ia 1841, and whether the French government hail been in formed that the articles sent would be solely from the re sult of private eaterptise, without pecuniary aid from this government. Lord J. RUSSELL sad the noble lord, the Secretary of Suite for the Foreign Departnient,had informed the French government that goods were likely to be sent to the ezhi- Wiwi from this *many, and that they would be the result of private esterprine may. The noble lord had also asked what would be Use arnapaests of the French government respecting the admiains of sash good.. The answer re turned was, that the Miaister of the Interior was y reparing revitalises apes this subject, but that those regulations' bad not yet bees finally settled. The Minister of the In terior. however, bad 'nee informed Lord Cowley that the isnageineate hid bees so far settled that goods which were at present prohibited from entering France by the law of that country, would be allowed to be imported for the pur pose of exhibition, and that at the end of the exhibition they might either be re•esported without any claim for duty, or they might be admitted fee consumption in France ea the payment of a duty of 30 per mat : ad valorem. (Hear.) THE JEW QUESTION. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE sake he mould ask the noble lord whether it are the intention of the government to mite any further steps dealing the present session to amble Jews to sit and vote i• parliament, so as to give this bows and the eimintry the laseefit of the services of all the duly eleeled representative of the city of London Lord J. RUSSELL—It is not my intention to lapis say Leaman os the subject during the present semi= d whiners& (Hew, beer.) THE REVIEW DAYS AT CHOBHAM. str u7FTIODMAN sai•l the public bad beta much dis appointed owing to theis nut knowing the days Ul2 which the reviews were to take place at Chatham. (A laugh.) Would there be an♦ objection to an Intimation of those in tended reviews being made to the public ? (Hear, hear.) Viscount PALMERSTON—In mossier to the question of my hon. friend, I have to say that the main object of as it ceiling the troops encamped at Cit , otihilll is to prepare them by previous instruction for all the cies i,f• war ; and, therefore, one eseential point is at t ' should know beforehand what they are to "gut, hczt day;' but that they should go to bed in perfect Allskop whe ther they are to he woke up in the middle o them Vht, or at day-break. Consequently, it would be t.itficult if the public were let into the secret to keep the troops in the dark. (Laughter.) I can only tell the hon, gentleman that those who are anxious to witch as those interesting evo lutions may b 3 certain that every day when it does not rain—(loinghter)--and when the state of the weather will a:low the men with due regard to their lit alth to be marched out of thiveamp—those who choose to visit the scene are sure of seeing things quite worth the trouble of goin3; there to witness. (Laughter.) TUE INDIA BILL—ADJOURNED DEBATE. . The order of the day fur resuming the debate un the second reading having been read, Mr. RICH said his main objection to the bill rested upon no period being fixed for its duration. It ought net to ex tend for one minute beyond five years, but the still better course would be to delay legislation, and pass a continuance bill. He saw no hope in the assurance that the bill would be altered whenever parliament thought fit. Once pass the bill, and alteration would not be easy. The fact was, the question of India reform had sprung up, like a great tree from a grain of mustard-seed. Members would certainly have acted indiscreetly had tuey brought is a bill such as the country :would be ripe for by the end of the session. Nevertheless, this was 'no excuse for crude and hasty legislation. With regard to the competition part of the plan, Mr. Rich gave it his high approval, and hoped that it might be extended. He advocated the removal of the Court of Directors and parliamentary responsibility as regarded the President of the Board ofCootrol. lle denounced the war mania and the lust of territory which have hitherto characterised the government of India. The natives, too, he considered to have been unjustly Ousted; they had • right to • fair field as regarded all the branches of the service, which all expe rience proved could not lead to any dangerous results. Mr.C. BRUCE believed that the present was • time when it was desirable t i legislate for India: firstly, because the Select Committee reported favourably as to the opera tionof the existing act; and secondly . , because the subject should be withdrawn as early as possible from the arena of public opinion. The course of the present debate had can. armed him in the latter view ; fur nothing could exceed the exaggeration indulged in by the "Young India" party in the house, as to the evils of the existing system. Mr. Bruce made objections to the nominee system in the case of the Court of Directors; but still he could not support the amendment. iIiTitiIOBIBANKS gave his support to the govern lent measure. Mr. NAPIER followed, and made a very long speech to • very thin house—the opposition side of which was nearly deserted. He addressed himself especially to the judicial system of India, the defects of which be pointed out ; and he urged the house, upon general grounds, as they valued their own character, and cared about the interests of two hundred millions of persons, not to agree to the second , reading of the bill. ' Mr. J. MACOREOOR, without approving of all the details of tbu bill, thought that the government bad taken the wisest and mostgenerous course which could be adopted. Mr. D. SEYMOUR avowed himself as the supporter ot the" Young India" party, notwithstanding the sarcasm which had be. n levelled against it. And he accordingly pr seceded to denounce the past and present rule of the government of India, especially with regard to the policy and conduct ot its numerous wars, their effect upon the finances of the country, the neglect of public works, and other abuse., which he considered to be mainly caused by the present system of double government. Sir C. WOOD hoped the house would come to a de cision on that important question to-night, and indeed the state of the house fur some hours past indicated' that they had had nearly enough of the debate. But from the position he occupied, it might be expected that he should offer some observations in reply to the *foments against the bill. It was remarkable that during the course of the discussion very little had been said in favour of the amendment of the noble lord. And the arguments used by those who concurred in it were of sd diverse and contradictory a kind, that if one were set against tLe other, the noble lord would be left without any argument at all. (Hear, hear.) But it might be said that the onus of proof in favour of immediate legislation lay on thrice who proposed the bill. He denied that. The existing charteewas about to espies, and in the natural order of things they had to provide for the future government of India. The burden of proof therefore lay on those who thought fit to interrupt that natural course of things. (liety.) The noble lord said that there had been suspension acts on fertilise occasions. The noble lord was quite mistaken in that. Lord STANLEY said he had never said so. Sir C. WOOD said that his ears then gently misappre hended the noble lord, but as the noble lord denied having made such an assertion, he would of inane concede that it was so. Then the hon. member for Montrose said that con • siderable time was allowed for inquiry before the act of 1833 was passed, and that they ought to allow sufficient time for in vestigation now likewise. But the circumstances were dif ferent in the two cases. (Hear.) In 1833 the main question involved was the commercial privileges of the East India Company, and of coarse time should be allowed the com pany to arrange and complete those concerns. (Hear, bear.) Oa the present occasion there was nothing of the kind. They were simply called on to provide for the future treder a nment of India, and the house had to decide in whose that government should be placed. The hon. member Sir Montrose said they ought to watt for evidence from India, but the noble lent adautted that, on a question for pro. Wang fie fir 111,11110111 Mat of India, he would not attach Wffilffinialibt to Misses from that country, and that the drew el mermaid, when made, would be hardly Maw se felt there. (Hear, hear.) A great deal had bola stilt OS she arabject of the future government et India, hatho hest ma loud a single argument urged in favour of Sbiet. The boa. member for Blanchester, the other night, soles boa member for Richmond (Mr. Rich), that even ing, neelleded a delay of two year., in order that there stied been egitation to pull down the East India Com pany. (Hear, hair.) Those who wished to pull down the last India Company, and who thought that this could be anemplithed in two years of agitation, might have pod mesa hi asking for delay ; but this could hardly be • pal reason for the hon. member for Montrose, wished to keep up the East India Com pany, to join with these honourable gentlemen in asking for delay. (Hear, hear.) Other hon. gentlemen said that all the abuses of the present system were to be at tributed to the East India Company, whilst others again sold that theirs was only a sham and fictitious control. (sear. hear.) Now it did not seem to him that popular __holies was the proper mode of determining a great and impomest question lika this. (Hoar, hear.) What was to be the Mori government of India was a question second hopteloses to none that could engage the deliberate nensideratlea of parliament, and he treated such • question weld never be submitted to the decision of public agita tion. (Hew, hear.) He had on a former occasion referred to the authority of Mr. Mill, who said that an enlightened public opinion was the best security for good government, but an unenlightened public opinion was the very worst or worse than none at all. (Hear, hear.) The statements and misstatements which had been made use of during these discussions for the purpose of exciting prejudice against the East India Company exceeded, be must say, anything he ever heard before. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Manchester told the house the other night that a report on the state of the public works of Madras, which had been moved for by the hon. member for Montrose, had not been laid on the table, and he left it to be inferred that it had been kept back by the Ent India Company, because it would have told against them. Ho *mew that common charity might ban suggested to the has. gentleman that the East India Company would Inaba ammatad by such improper motives ; but the simple fact was that the report in question had been laid en the table a math ego. (Hear, hear.) Another hon. gentleman (Mr. Blaekett) said that the company had forfeited their charter, because they did not present the annual territorial SNIIIIMIL The fact was not so, (or they were laid oa the table WS AD 14th of May. Mr. BLACKETT said that he took the precaution if Mt* • question to the Secretary of the Treasury on the who answered that for many years it Wae impossible Ispuseat these accounts. Sir C. WOOD said that what the secretary of the Teems awry might have said about the accounts many years age Sid not affect the question. But when hon. gentlemen pot firth statements with confidence, they ought to incartaks What the facts really were. (Hear, hear.) Theo the hoe. gentleman said, speaking of the land revenue, that 60,000,0001. of arrears of rent were left uncollected, from which he would have the house and the public infer either that the land tax was excessive, or that great negli pace existed in the collection of the tax. The hon. gentle neon made this statement from the appendix to the evidence taken last year, but he fell iota the most ludicrous mistake (he hon. gentleman would excuse him for saying so) that le INS possible for man to make. (Laughter.) Ths appendix contained an account of outstanding balances of wean of land tax for the last 20 years. And although k was stated in a note at the bottom of the page that lames there had been an outstanding balance of 4,1110.0001. one year, it was reduced to 2,000,0001. last yaw e partly owing to greater z ..al in collecting the money, mot y by writing off some of the account ; yet the hon. pastgaman added the outstanding balance at the end of each sensessitive year for '2O years, and he informed the house rat the whole sum was due to the land revenue of India. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Yet it was these statements red statements like these th 4 were to form public opinion tls this country on the Indian question. (Hear, hear.) Them hon. gentlemen referred to the salt-tax, but not one if stated the facts correctly. The hon. gentleman the another for Manchester. began 'by quoting an extract from a newspaper, from which it ap7eared that there had been a peat falling off in the eonsumption of salt, but he did not refer to the next number ef the same paper which confessed that it made a mistake to the amount of 40,000 tans. (Hear, Mar.) If the hon. gentleman tett aired to the papers laid before the house, he would ....se the real state of the case which would at least suggest to him doubts on the subject et which he was speaking. T hen the hon. geotltman (Mr. Blacken) in order to show th it the salt had fallen, task as average of fans years, which he compared with the Minend four years. Mr. BLACKETT said he did net do any such thing. Sir C. WOOD said he certainly heard it with his own ears, and the organs of public opinion reported it as said by the hon. gentleman. Bat the mistake was this They took a datament of revenue IN in heating a failing off in con con, totally omittiag the feet that in the meantime' redsty had been reduced. In Madras, where there was se teduction of duty, the revenna had increased. In Bom bay there had been an increase. In Bengal the duty had THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 1, 1853. bena'llieninish but the sensuroption had immeshed to cated the government of India from the imam— s. ' Such esq este AIM takiag the usual average of 121 b. charges brought against them. /deny hon. gentlemen a hey the. I Marl consumption would represent • seemed to forget that the Court of Directors must exist for q or a million of people. Then game his boo. and the next 20 years, during which the dividends of the pr the. le - friend the member ter Bath, who told them that prietors °Crock would be paid out of the Indian revenues ; e. ple ed India had consumed so much salt, and in sub • as there was no proof of gross mismanagement, it appeared yeses so much less, and he argued that their condi- to hen desirable to make use of the existing machinery Vt% so mach the worse. Precisely the same =Luke for that period. In the constitution of the court, however, was made by him. The revenue was less because the duty there was one blot which almost every witness had hit. It had been reduced. Then, again, his hon. friend the mem- was stated almost unanimously that the aecessity of a long ' bier for Manchester quoted some document the other and tedious canvass had deterred the best Indian servants night, showing that 90 per cent. of the produce from offering themselves for seats in the direction ; and that was taken by the government for the rent of the blot the government wished to remedy by placing in the land. The hon. gentleman meet have entirely forgotten court six experienced persons ham Indio. (Hoar, herr.) his own report, because it was stated in it that measures The noble lord did not seem prepared to maintain that the ' had been taken, for the purpose of correcting the over as- Court of Directors ought to he continued as it stood—that sessments, and that nothing more was required than to take the patronage and the form of government ought to remnin measures to complete the survey. The hon. member for unaltered ; and he ought, therefore, for the sake of canoes- Sunderland referred at some length to the con:me:Mel tency, to vote for the second reading of the bill. What his state of India, sad to their not taking so much of our right hon. friend the member for Edinburgh justly termed manufactures as other nations did. Why, the feet was, by far the most important part of the subject bad been that there was a considerable domestic manufacture in scarcely noticed in the course of the discussion ; he referred lade', and if we sent a considerable quantity of goods to the changes which it was proposed to make in India. there, it could only be by displacing that menu- Ile agreed with his right ben. friend that India must be lecture. It was not like Brazil, where there was governed in India, and that what was done in reference to no domestic manufacture. Nevertheless, within the last 25 the home government was far less important than the fm years our imports to India had increased 112 per cent., prevenient in the administration in India itself. His hon. which was a greater ratio of increase than that to anyother friend the member for the county of Elgin said they knew country. Then the hon. member referred to a quarrel nothing at present of the government in India. between a couple of zemindars while the policeman looked Mr. C. BRUCE explained that what he had 'said was on. He was sorry that such things should take place; that they . ought not to legislate until they had obtained but be had heard In this country of the inefficiency of the opinions of the Governor-General and the other parish constables and of faction fi ghts in Ireland, but he governors. had never heard that either the one or the other Sir C. WOOD continued :—Well, the opinion was a valid reason for making a total alteration in of Lord Dalhousie had been obtained, and it accorded with the government of Queen, Lords, and Commons. that of the government, and ho did not know of what see But what was this, supposing it to be true—was it not it could be to send out the bill and wait till it had been re an improvement of the state of things, when the whole turned. As to the remarks made respectiag the opinion of country was overrun by the I'indarees, and when a ryot Sir Erskine Perry, and other eminent lawyers with regard could not go out without his matchlock on his shoulder ? to the code, he woaldobserve that the transmission in India Now, the universal remark was, that from one end of our was to slowest of the very persons referred to—(bear)— dominions to the other the most perfect security to life and and it was in deference to their opinion the government property existed, and that though there had been external had postponed till next session the introduction of a bill fur wars, internal wars were entirely done away with with- improving the judicature and the course of legislation in in the British dominions in India. An hon. mem- India. (Cries of "divide.") His hon. friend (Mr. C. bee had given an account of the miserable state Bruce) objected to centralisation. He imagined that his of the ryots in Bengal, which he quoted from honourable friend was not for reverting to the the Calcutta Review. If they were to turn to the pages of old system of having different laws for different a review in this country of no slight celebrity, the Quarterly parts of India; and if there was to be one system of laws 111weisso, or to Blackwood+ Magazine, they might find des- it could only be secured by having one legislative body for ' sirtione quite as harrowing of the miserable state of this the whole country. He would not enter into them quea siest'," owing to free trade. He strongly suspected that lions any further. (Cheers.) No objection haying been r w could fi nd in the s e peeches of the hon. and learned mem- urged against the bill which might not be fairly and pro bur for Suffolk (Sir . Kelly), made not six months ago, petty discussed In committee, it did not appear to him that • description of the misery of this country quite as strong any sound argument could be advanced against the second as that which the hon. gentleman bad read of the state of reading. He thought if they were to deal with the qua the people of India. But, after all, this misery was under tioa as the noble lord proposed to do, they would be trifling the kind system which the hen. gentleman so strongly re- with the welfare and even the security of their empire in commended. (Mr. Seymour : No.] Why, the hon. gen- India. (Hear, hear.) That was certainly an empire of • demise always condemned the zemindary system, but the most anomalous and extraordinary description. If well hon. member tor Manchester confined his objections to the governed it was one of the strongest empires that could ryotwarry system, and always spoke in favour of a landlord exist ; if ill governed no one could deny that its situation system. The hon. member (Mr. Bright) refereed to some must be most critical. What were the measures adopted evidence taken before the committee, but which had not by the government for promoting its good government ) been reported, of the miserable state of the inhabitants of So far as India itself was concerned, they had adopted the Bengal. lie (Sir C. Wood) could only say that they had suggestions of the most experienced servants ; so far as the had evidence, and that from • witness not very favourable changes at home were concerned, they had adopted the to the company, but who in the strongest possible language suggestions which appeared to them most likely to secure stated that it was impossible to speak in too strong terms the stability of the empire. Lord Ellenborough told them of the favourable condition of the people of British that they held their authority in India through the supe- India, contrasting it in every possible way with the riority of mind on the part of those who were sent out. state of those who were still under native rule. By the proposed system of competition they endeavoured But the hon. member far Sunderland !poke of the revenue to maintain that superiority. Mr. Mill said they main es being in a state all but bankrupt. Now, he should not Mined their authority in India by convincing the minds of have thought it necessary to take any very great notice of the people that they were governed better now than they that, were it not that a statement of that kind, if not con- had been by their own native princes, and the go , tradicted, might alarm the people of India, or those per- vernment did not forget that declaration. That sons who depended for their income on Indian debt, and there were defects he admitted ; but they were' therefore he might be permitted to state what little founds- defects which they did their hest by this measure to tion there was for the apprehensions in which the hon. gen- remedy ; and there was not, he believed, any defect that tleman indulged. It was perfectly true that since the last could be amended by home legislation, for which a remedy charter India had been engaged in very considerable and had not been provided in the bill. The questions of land extensive wars, and no doubt a considerable addition had tenure, the improvement of public works, and others of a been made to the debt. He would not go into any long similar description, were questions which must be dealt details of figures as to that increase of the debt, but the with, not here, but in India, and for dealing with which whole Indian debt at this moment was less than two in India the government had be this bill provided what years' ue of India, sad that certainly, looking at appeared to them the best machinery that could be devised. what we were used to in Europe, was no for (Cheers.) midable amount. The amount of the increased debt Mr. 1/ISRAELI said the right hon. gentleman had com since 1813 was about half a million per annum, pinned of the imaginative powers of the member who The increase of revenue from the same territories, making preceded him, but he had himself shown that in that re• allowance for everything his hon. friend the member for open he could successfully compete with the hon. Newcastle claimed, was upwards of two million per annum, member for Sunderland (Mr. I:ngby Seymour) independent of the income of the new territories, which (laughter)—for in his reply he appeared to him amounted to about a million and • hair more. The income (Mr. Disraeli) to have answered several speeches which of ladia was on the whole an increasing income. An hon. had not prev iouly been delivered —( laughter ) — and he gentleman corrected him the other night when he stated had constantly occasioned several gentlemen on both sides the income of India was 26 millions. The income of the of the house to interrupt him in the course of the address last three years in round numbers was, in 1850-1, 27 which he had just terminated. It would be his (Mr. Die millions ; in 1851.2, 28 millions ; in 1852.3, 29 raeli's) lot, in the observations which he should presume to millions. In 1889-60 there was a surplus. In 1850-1 make, to have to comment on some statements which had there was also • surplus. In 1831-2 there was • deficiency, preceded his. He should endeavour, however, to make his and in 18,52-3, paying the probable expense of the Burmese remarks in so fair a spirit as not to call for the interference war, there was a surplus of upwards of half a million. He of any hon. gentleman before be had resumed his seat. In could not say that with an income which had increased two considering the all-important subject before them,he should million within the last three years, with a surplus in three endeavour to imitate the temper and spirit which cbarac out of four years, and where the whole debt was leas than tensed the statesmanlike speech with which the amendment two years' income, he could not say that such a state of was introduced by the noble lord. (Cheers.) He agreed with things was one that ought to create alarm. There was the First Lord of the Admiralty in remarking with satin another remarkable statement of our new acquisitions in faction many indications during the debate of a desire &Inds. A very able officer had been appointed to the coin- on both sides of the house to come to the consideration of mend of the irregular cavalry in that country, and they took the subject in a calm and unimpassioned spirit. But, at the uo their quarters in a hamlet without any inhabitants, and same time, he must take the liberty of observing that he the benefit of our protection and the energy of our officer in could not but feel that hon. gentlemen, in attempting to laying out roads and in irrigation had been suck that at 'apron so laudable a disposition, had, he thought, been in the present moment there was a flourishing town with tea advertent'', betrayed into remarks which might lead to thousand inhabitants. Such had been the mode in which very inconvenient, very disagreeable, and even very dea ths country bad improved under our rule. Many gerous misconceptions. They had be en told frequently in were the statements made to prove the inefficiency that debate, that this was not a party question, as if a party of the present system of government, nevertheless question were necessarily an improper question. They had he thought that the arguments of those who spoke been told that the subject ought not to be considered in a in favour of the motion of the noble lord told in party spirit ; as if when • subject was considered in a party favour of the second reading instead of against spirit it was necessarily considered in a partial and unjust it. He did not think they had in the slightest spirit. Now, as they were all of them members of a house, degree impugned the authority of Lord Dalhousie, which which was a house of party , and which, if it were not a was not given in answer to a leading question of e, be- house of party, they might depend upon it would not he cause he bad carefully abstained from asking it, lest he long tolerated by the country—(hear, hear,)—be thought should be accused of putting it. But hon. gentlemen who this was a point upon which there should be clearer con supported the amendment had reverted, and he thought captions than at present appeared to prevail in that &mem justly, to the opinion of the editor of the Friend of India. bly. He considered that a party question was a ques- Permit him to read a short extract from a letter from that tion which concerned the distinctive precipice of the gentleman, who was in this country, and knew what the u- two great parties into which • popular assembly was gement& were for delay. This was the deliberate opinion necessarily divided. (Hear, hear.) Aristocracy, or which he gave on the subject : " I will venture to democracy—protection, or unrestricted competition—an assert after witnessing the mode in which the Indian cam- endowed or established church, or complete dependence on paten has opened, that nothing can be more disastrous for the voluntary principle—those were principles which were India than the prolonging this agitation for two years, du- perfectly distinct; they were professed by different parties, ring which the intelligent natives would be led, however they were party principles ; and if they were brought into wrongfully, to imagine that their representations would be discussion, the debate would be on purely party questions. welcome to their friends in England in exact proportion to But it was taking a very limited view of a party question to their virulence. Two years of such agitation, by raising bound it merely by the description on which he had just hopes width ',must be disappointed, will bring dis ventured. (Hear, hear.) Hitherto, when any great legir respect to the British government , and might even five difficulty had been brought under the consideration of end in striking at the tprineiple of loyal obedience." parliament there had been supposed to be a generous emu- He (Sir C Wood) trusted that those who were not lation between the two parties as to which should solve the prepared to imperil the safety of our Indian empire, would difficulty in the most satisfactory manner ; and when there take that opinion of a personas competent to give an opinion had been a question of controverted policy, it bad bola as any one, and that they would not suffer themselves to be thought that the competition was as ter which should MM. led away by delay, from which no possible good could mend the WWII that would conduce mat to the haulms come. He might close the observations he had to address to of the couatry and the welfare of the people. (Hear, the house by the argument against delay, but after ; the hear.) Sharing in that view, he confessed he could not un speech of the noble lord, he would refer to the ann. derstand how a great party in that house could take refuge meats against the measure, because, after all, in a sullen neutrality on a subject like that before the the great question they were discussing was the se- house, and shrink from expressing, without the slightest toad reading of the bill. The contradictions in hesitation, the views which they entertained. If they am the arguments against the measure itself were as proved the proposition of the ministry, they were great as those used on the subject of delay. The first oh- bound, in his opinion, to give it their cordial jection which the noble lord stated was, that there was no and complete support ; if, on the other hand, fixed term, and that the measure of the government was they believed it to be a proposition of a very goes purely experimental; another hen. mother said it was tionahle character, and further, if they believed that provisional ; and the hon. member for Montrose said it was it might lead to disastrous results, he denied that it was more permanent even than a lease for 20 years. They (the in their power to refrain from expressing their opinion. ministers) proposed to put the government of India on pre- (Cheers.) He said they owed it to those who had sent eisely ,the same footing as the government of this them there — (hear, bear) — they owed it to the country— country. Was' the government of this country provi- (hear, hear)—they owed it even to themselves, fairly to renal ? When they were putting the government of India Plan before parliament and the country the reasons why on the same footing as the government of this country, and they dissented from the course recommended by the go as the government of all our colonies, except India, he vernment, and to give to parliament and the country an could not conceiee that they were putting it on an unsoun d opportunity of expressing an opinion as to the two pelicans or unstable footing. The hon. member for Mootrose eer- which were placed before them. He knew he should be told tainly used the strangest argument—the exploded doctrine that party government led to great excesses. It was his of finality; he said it was a measure which might be altered opinion that the excesses of party were not greater than, as time and circumstances required. Such an argument perhaps they were not so great as, the excesses experienced from such a determined friend to reform he never heard, under despotic governments—(hear, hear)—but, for his But what said the noble lord, what did he say own part, he preferred the excesses of party government to that he required, and that the house ought to require ? those of despotic government ; and he believed that the Why, that a measure should be proposed which more enlightened this country became, the greater and after having been well weighed, and whether the condition more powerful would be the cheek to piety excesses in the of India be good or bad, should have a fair trial. Why, common sense of that house, and in the influence that was exactly what they promoted to do. They said they of that omnipotent opinion, the power of which had considered this measure, that it was in their opinion they all acknowledged. (Hear, hear.) Well, entertaining the best measure fur the government of India, that they as he did these views, it was absolutely necessary that he believed it to be good, that if it were good it ought to be should frankly express his opinions on the subject before permanent, but it' it turned out not to be good, that it the house. Ile had made these observations because he had might bz altered as circumstances might require, and were the misfortune of differing from many genntlemen whom they to be told that that was anobjection, and that they were he greatly respected, and with many of whom he was in to adopt the doctrine of finality ? The natives of political connexion. For his own part, he could not incur India had coma to a wiser conclusion than the hon. gen- the responsibility of giving his assent to the measure of the limas, fee he found a second petition had come from the government. The consequences of that measure would, Disobey Native Association, in which they said they had sooner or later, be before them. Even if the government, now iWlipted the opinion so well expressed by Lord which was now being planned, should last for that space of Broughton, and their petition was, that they should pass 20 years which had so often been adverted to, there were an act for the government of India without limiting its many present, who would probably be present duration to any number of years, an act which, like other when that riod was terminated. Probably he statutes, might, it deemed requisite, be altered, modified, (Mr. Disrael i would not, though it was possible or repealed as occasion might require ; and they respect- that he would be there ; but—(lsughter)—there were many fully said that it could not be necewry to embrace all the young men on that side of the house, devoting their time subjects involved in the consideration of India in one act. and their talents to the service of their country, who at that Now ministers were taking precisely that course. They period would probably still be taking an active part in were proposing a bill for the government of India which Public transactions ; and be should be very sorry if, when did not embrace everything in one act—a bill which, if the time came, they should, on referring to the debates of good, might be permanent, sod which, if not good, might 1853, have occasion to regret that they were so wanting in be altered when time and circumstances showed that it re- sagacity or in moral courage that, because party quire l alteration. Redid not think that he need make any inconvenience might arise, they shrunk from expressing I observations on the subject of patronage. The noble lord their opinions on one of the most important subjects that said he concurred in the principle of competition, and he could engage the attention of parliament. (Cheers.) suggested some alteration in the mode ; all be (Sir C.Wood) Now, there had been some controversy in that debate as to could say was that there was nothing in the bill the exact subject which was under dimension. The Secre te preve,,t their considering the details in committee. The tary of the Board of Control (Mr. Lowe) had accused his last que eon on which the noble lord stated his opinion noble friend (Lord Stanley) of introducing a second subject was that ,: the home government. The noble ' lord him- into the debate. It appeared to him that that criticism self was in favour of what was called j ibe double govern- was not well founded. (Hear, hear.) There could be no meat; in fact there was hardly any one who was in favour miste:ee whatever as to the question before them. That 1 of a single government. His hon friend the member for question As accurately, completely, and precisely the West Riding quoted Mr. Halliday's opinion, but he repressed in the title of the bill which was did not quote all that Mr. Halliday said, because Mr. on the table of the ileum. What was that title? II illiday Oistioctly said he bad a high opinion of the " A bill to provide for the government of India." An mode in which the government of India was adrainisteree.„ amendment had been moved which in fact said this—that In the enure of the discussion the government had Mon the ministerial plan of providing for the government of taunted with the observation—"lf you maintain that Geary- India, while it disturbed much, really settled nothing— thing is good, why do you propose to change anyt`eing : ( cheers ) — and that that being the case, considering the late I He (Sir C. Wood) admitted that many things were ill done, period of the session, and considering that • parliamentary and mar, things omitted ; but at the tame tittle he vindi committee bad fur two years been sitting to investigate the condition of India, and up to that moment bad not half fulfilled its office, they s►oald wait fur increased iaforma- bon, virtually continue the existing act for the government of India, and hesitate before passing a permanent measure which was not adequate to meet the necessities of the case. That was the question before the house. ((fear, Ilene.) I A plan was proposed by her Majesty's ministers. They (the opposition) could show that it was not an adequate and sufficient plan—(hear, hear)—that in consequence of the ►ateness of the session, and the imperfect state of the • investigation which the house itself had authorised the go vernment should pause in its progress. And this was a proposition which bad been described as something strange and unreaslnable ; as being dangerous to En;land, perilous to India; as a weapon borrowed from the enemy; an arrow from the quiver of Indian reformers; as a course unheard of, not to be tolerated, and rife with consequences much to be deprecated. Now, in the first place, was it an unprecedented course ? What his noble friend (Lord Stanley) wished was this. There had been some talk of a term of two years be allotted to a continuance bill, and some hoh, gentlemen had argued as if two years were to elapse before they began to legislate for India. On the contrary, what his noble friend anticipated was, that her Majesty's ministers, in full possession of the fruits of the parliamentary investigation, should Like advantage of the autumnal recess in order to mature a bill— that considerable indignation was excited against her Majesty's ministers But, on cAseidering the clause, he (Mr. Disraeli) acquitted her Majesty's ministers of being its authors, and believed that the original of the clim e would be found in Leadenhall.street, where there was very valuable body of papers relating to a quefti, with regard to which the Indian government had greatly dis. tinguished themselves, and that was the putting doon o r Thuggee. (Laughter.) Now, it was known that the Thug was usually a person of very gentlemanly vnd even of fn. cinat.ng manners, who was on the moat intimate terms with you; he dined with you, he drank with you, he smO.ed with you, he shared in your pastimes and pur:mit s , an d whatever you wished to b e . done he was always rosy to (h. Ile was the companion of your life, and possibly member of the some direction (laughter) ; but alw a y s at the moment of the utmost confidence, when be was re. posing oat your hoscm, the mission of the *.thug was fut. tilled, and you ceased to exist. (Laughter and cheers.) Nuw, he confessed, he was anxious—he was curious to sea which wera the fifteen Thugs. (Great laughter and cheers.) He wanted to know whu were the innocent victims? (Laughter.) Sometimes he Pared it might be the vener able member fur the City of London (Mr. Masterman). (A laugh) He would not, however, pursue this hypothetical anticipation ; but when they met next session, he feared that there would be a thrill of horror when certain gsntle men, who had been members of the Court of Directors, first entered the house. (A laugh.) But, what had been gained by this process ? You would have fifteen members of the old court ; the crown, in the first instance, was to add three, and ultimately six members ; of the eighteen of wh omi the court was to consist twelve w0,.1d be old members and six would be government nomi . . (cheers)—which probably both houses of parliament would approve; that they should introduce it to the notice of the house when parliament met in February; it would probably pass in a month, and receive the royal assent before the existing act wuula expire. (Cheers.) That was what the opposition pro. posed, what they wished, and that was considered an unprecedented proposition. In reply to this alleged charge he referred to the cue of 1813, and the conduct of Lords nees. It was said that the object of appointine of the - - government nominees was to secure a certainty of superior knowledge of India and its necessities. Did you gain that object ? He had looked over the list of the presect East India Directors. lie took the twenty-four names, and he Grey and Grenville, when ministers were "as ministers generally are—nun isely obstinate," and to that of 1833, and the recommendatioes of Mr. Charles Wynne; and he urged that Lord Stanley was merely advising the course recommended on both those occasions when India Bills were in question. Twenty years had passed. What did we find now 1 There were still great complaints. Were there not con stant wars—(cheers)—constant deficits—(cheers)—no edu cation—(cheers)—few public works, and a maladminis tration of justice. (Great cheering.) When then they found that in 1853 the same complaints were made as in 1833, did it not become parliament to pause and act with great consideration in this matter? And the evidence taken before the committees both of the Lords and Commons bore out these complaints. The most experienced servants of the company would not come forward and state that there were not continual wars ; that the natives of India were wealthy and thriving ; that the condition of the country was changed; that means of communication existed ; that the native population was educated ; and that the adminis tration of justice was satisfactory. What they did say, how ever, let in a flood of information upon the subject ; and it was not putting a prejudiced or extravagant opinion upon it to say that the complaints which existed in 1833 might be fairly echoed in 1853. Under these circumstances, was it possible that the house could proceed to provide a govern ment for India as if it were legisleling for a railroad ? Were they to be told that this was a question in which dis cussion was not to be indulged,?—were ministers to be allowed to triumph in the idea that parliament and the pesple of this country took no interest in this question ?j If that were true, he would warn the house that the time could not be far distant when they would lose that India of which they were so careless. If he were a minister, and it was impressed upon his conviction that the house was not interested in the discussion upon India, he would not ven ture to triumph in the fact, nor continually to remind the country and Europe that it was so. It only proved that year by year the house was becoming more and more a meeting of delegates, less competent to fulfil the part of imperial legislators, which was formerly its pride. (" Hear" and " oh.") It was now the duty of parliament to endea vour to discover what was the cause of the misgovernment of India. He did not presume to fix that misgovernment wholly upon the constitution of the present Indian govern ment ; but generally speaking, if a country be misgoverned, there was a prima facie proof that its constitution was de fective. Chronic misgovernment could not exist, unless the general scheme of administration had in it some thing essentially defective. When he considered the form of the Indian government, he found it cumbrous, divided and deficient in that clear and complete responsi bility which was essentially the source of all efficient go vernment. That was a charge which he did not make without reluctance, nor indeed had he stated a word which he did not think the justice of the ease strictly would defend. Her Majesty's ministers had continually reminded the house that but a few members could be got together to listen to the debates upon the question ; he had, however, observed that all the speakers were gentlemen who had local expe rience in, or were connected with, the affairs of India. (Cries of dissent from the ministerial benches.) He (Mr. Disraeli) was quite ready to be corrected, but he certainly thought. that with the exception of himself and the First Lord of the Admiralty, all the honourable members who had spoken in this debate were either connected with India, or had local experience in Indian affairs. At least he was not going to quote any gentleman who did not beloni to that category. One gentleman, a director, said that it was a great mistake to suppose that the Court of Directors did not exercise a lona fide authority. That was the fact. The second gentleman, a man of equal au thority, said there was no use talking about the India Com pany, whose authority—using a phrase which had now be come classical in the House of Commons—was all a sham, and that the real power lay in the hands of the President of the Board of Control. What happened next ? A right honourable gentleman, • man of the very highest authority, who had been Secretary to the Board of Control, and subsequently a member of council in India, rose and said it was wasting breath and time to talk of either the Board of Control of the Court of Directors, because the Governor• General was alone the government of India (Cheers.) Now this was a subject of very great interest, and it was remarkable that the highest authorities should in so remarkable a manner contradict themselves. (Hear, bear.) He mentioned these things to show how difficult it was to 8: the point at which lay the government of India, but he had still to come to the most important point. He bad ob served that • very short time ago, when many gentlemen whom he was then addressing were members of that house, and even if not members the matter mast be still fresh in their memories, and the state of India was most perilous, when the British arms had incurred the greatest disaster of recent times, that this country was governed by a strong ministry, consisting of some of the ablest men in this country. These men were summoned to the council board to consider what steps should be taken to rescue India from her peril, and these two men, the Duke of Wellington and Sir Robert Peel, se lected as Governor-General of India, and at the greatest personal sacrifice, one of their colleagues of great talents and eloquence in the other house of parlia ment. They sent him to the scene of imperial danger, and his mode of administering the affairs of India gave entire satisfaction. That nobleman succeeded in everything he undertook, but this he (Mr. Disraeli) also knew, that in the very heart of his enterprise he was abruptly recalled from his government, and by whom ? By his sovereign ? By her Majesty's ministers ? By the President of the Board of Control? Net at all, but by the Court of Directors. (Loud cheers.) This was a startling fact. Lord Ellenborough, the selected minister of her Majesty's government, was recalled by the Directors with every circumstance of shame, and the next day his sovereign elevated him in the peerage, and elevated him with a red ribbon , (Cheers.) He wanted to know then who were the real. governors of India, and where was the responsibility. (Hear, hear.) But the directors would have the same power still He had read the bill, and in as far as he could draw any conclusion from it, the directors could, if it be came law, renal • governor-general to-morrow, and there fore to tell him that they did not govern the country was absurd. (Hear, hear.) Here was • case in which they had changed the policy of Sir Robert Peel and the Duke of Wellington, for who did not know that to renal a governor-general was generally to alter a whole system of policy. Well, he thought he had shown that the government of India was not that simple instrument of polity it had Deco alleged to be during the present debate. (Hear, hear.) They had been told that the Board of Control was the government of India; he had shown a memorable instance of recent experience in which they had defied the Court of Directors. (Hear, hear.) He was not making this a charge against the directors—if they had the power they were right to exercise it; but when he was told they had no power, and had shown them to have exercised the greatest act of power, and when in the bill that power was still reserved to them, he thought it an important element in the consideration of the mode in which the future government of India was to be formed. (Hear, hear.) Remember it was not • question confidently thrust forward during the debate, whither the present form, or some great change was to be adopted, but sooner or later they must face that great manic change which they were now taught to consider so f4volows. You might terminate the power of the directors *morrow, but whether you did so or not, at a stated period thg Court of Proprietors must cease to exist ; and of course Age arepresentatives would be banished from the scene. Sooner or later, therefore, organic change must be met; but the q stion was, whether the present was the proper time for meting it, or whether by proposing it they did not place themselves in a worse position than before ? Remem bering the hour of the night—(hear)—he would compress his observations as much as possible, avoiding all interference with those parts of the bill that referred to the local govern ment of India, although there were many clauses to which he must object should the bill ever reach the committee. But these had nothing to do with the second reading, and therefore he should concentrate his criticism upon the system proposed for the home government of India. lie found such objections in that plan as justified him in re sistance, because it continued the disadvantages of the exist ing system without preserving any of its advantages. Ile must, in the first place, call the attention of the house to the new constitution of the board of directors. The first objection he made to the scheme was, the introduction of government nominees, which would have the effect of at once making the board dependent. It was unnecessary for him (Mr. Disraeli) to remind the house of the peculiar arrangement by which the number of direr ors was to be reduced. lie adverted to it with reluctance be cause he saw so many members of that body present, but he trusted that the freedom of discussion would warrant him in making the allusion. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Hon. gentlemen would remember that it was proposed that the directors, thirty in number, to meet and select, on the 15th of April next, out of their own number, they being themselves the selectors, fifteen, who were thereafter to he members of the Court of Directors of the East India Company. At first there was an idea entertained abroad that the President of the Board of Control had dealt rather hardly and cruelly with the directors and this device of his thought so ruthless and remorseless observed that the majoity of them were men of local and official experience in Indian affairs. More than halt of them were either eminent as lawyers, like the hon. member for Ifoniton, or had had great experience in the military or civil service of the country; so that at the present moment with that ex tremely criticised court of directors you had a mass of Indian knowledge and experience represented by about half the members of the court. But even lithe arrangement of her Majesty's ministers was complete, you would only retain one-third who would be men who ',mussed know ledge of that kind. For it was obvious that when the change now projected took place, none of the members who were to be elected would be chosen with a regard to their Indian experience. You would always have them elected from Lombard-street, and from the directors of assurance societies; sad when a City director was wanted you would go upon 'Change for him. lie said that the two great elements of an Indian council, whatever might be its form, whether it was called a court of directors or a council for the government of India, were its indepen dence and its permanence. (Hear.) Much of its useful ness must depend on its knowledg.• of India, and that was only to be obtained by its permanence. For that reason, and for no other, if he was to have to choose between the existing system and tho arrangement of the government, he should choose the existing system. Remarking that no member had risen te defend the bill except gentlemen in office (and Mr. Mara ilay,whe defended his clients), and many who would not support the amend ment hod taken care to say they utterly disapproved of the bill, he addressed himself to answer such advocacy as had been offered. Mr. Macaulay's he described as one of the most agreeable of speeches and the weakest of defences, and Sir J. Graham's as a more un qualified panegyric on the East India Company than any pamphleteer bad ventured on, and in its conclusion as the culmination of inconsistency. " The home government is perfect," sai 1 the right hon. baronet, "therefore I propose to vote against it." (Hear, hear.) " The army of India is perfect under the company—think of Pollock and Nott—therefore I propose to introduce what shall make it subordinate to the military authorities of the government. (Cheers and a laugh.) The right hon. baronet next said, " I acknowledge that the state of Indian finance is not satisfactory—l cannot deny the' there is a great debt (though not so great as has been represented by :the Indian reformers)"—the right hon. baronet should have some pity on the raw statistics of these young and inexperienced men—(" hear," and laughter)— " I know the deficiency is great, though not so great as has been Said ; that there has been an annual deficit (but, I be lieve, in one year there was a surplus)—but we are now going to settle all that—we are to have an Indian budget —you will have a financial statement for India every year, and you will have the advantage in the next year of haying that statement presented to you by one who has been a Chancellor of the Exchequer as well as a Pre sident of the Board of Control." (Hear, hear.) This was the plan of the right hon. gentleman. But, observe on what small grcunds his happiness was based. Indian finance was not satisfactory, and was to Ise brcught under the control of parliament. They were to have the statement of the ways and means annually, though they were not to have the control of a single shilling. (Hear, hear.) They were to have a budget; and that was all. They could receive nothing, and they were not to have the control of a shilling of the expenditure. He would say nothing about taxation, further than he thought there would be a considerable tax upon the members of that house on the night when the India budget was to be debated. (Oh, oh.) He was anxious to condense his observations into the smallest pos sible compact, but he was anxious before he sat down to touch upon the arguments which bad been urged against delay, for they were, for many reasons, of the utmost im portance. First, they had the arguments on the ground of authority. Now he had said before that arguments drawn from authority was an argument efficacious but to a limited extent. Tley (the opposition) recog nised authority—they were duly influenced by it, but they could not be influenced by it against the strong conviction of their reason. The first authority brought forward is support of delay was that of the present Governor General of India. He yielded to an authority which was like one of the Homeric contests, clothed in a cloud, he could not struggle against an authority when he was not aware of the language in which it was couched, or at this moment, what it recommended. (Hear.) It would be held unparliamentary for a minister to appeal in debate to a state paper not midst the cognisance of the parlia ment, he did not wish to urge that objection, but be must protest against the authority of Lord Dal housie when not a single member present, except those who had the despatches in the red box, knew what that noble lord had said or the data upon which ho expressed his opinion. (Hear, hear.) Then there was the authority of Lord Ellenborough. True, Lord Ellenborough recently said he was in favour of immediate legislation ; but when he femembered that three months ago that noble lord was against immediate legislation, and that he had given no reason for his change of opinion, he could not, under the circumstances, very much appreciate his authority. (Hese, hear.) He wanted to know upon what reasons the noble lord had changed his opinion, for those reasons might be such as in his mind were not of sufficient force to justify the change in the noble lord's views, he might be proceeding on assumptions which he (Mr. Disraeli) thought wholly inadequate. Therefore, in his mind, the opinions of Lord Dalhousie and Lord Ellenborough on this point were mere shadows. Then they had the authority of a third governor-general, Lord Hardinge. But in his evidence before the committee that noble lord glare no such opinion. If he had given an opinion in favour of immediate legis lation for India in his evidence, it would have been open for any member of the committee to bare asked the grounds of that opinion. But that was not the case, and they were told that in conversation, the noble lord had so expressed himself, but he had not so expressed himself before the committee ; and if they wanted his opinion to influence them, the government ought to summon Lord Hardinge to give evidence at the bar of the house. They bad one or two other authorities quoted to the same effect. The first of them was the authority of his hon. friend the member for Huntingdon (Mr. T. Baring). He acknowleged his hon. friend was a great authority oa this question. He was the chairman of the committee, and as such had exhibited there talents and that ability which those who were intimate with him had been prepared to expect. But his hon. friend, if he did not misunderstand him, was a supporter of the eyes tem of home government in India as it at present existed, and, therefore, the view he took would he that the sooner they had legislation the better, because as soon as the mea sure passed they would be establishing something like it, if not exactly the same system which at present prevailed. But he (Mr. Disraeli) did not wish to see the present sys tem of home government continue, nor was that exactly the wish of her Majesty's ministers. (Hear.) Then they have another authority—that of his right hon. friend the mem ber for Stamford (Mr. Mercies). His right hon. friend bad stated, as far as he had been able to collect bin statement, that he approved of immediate legislation; and that it was his intention to have proposed immediate legislation had he remained President of the Board of Control. That obser vation had been made much of by hon. gentlemen opposite, and they had taken every opportunity of stating in their speeches that it was the intention et the late government to legislate for India immedi ately. He knew his right hon. friend would never make a statement which he did not feel to he correct, or say anything that he did not firmly believe to have oc curred, but he (Mr. Disraeli) was bound to saw, with the utmestcourtesy to his right hon. friend, that if he beard his declaration aright, and if it were that the late government intended to propose immediate legislation for India, that he himself heard that declaration in the house for the first time. (Hear, hear.) And he was not [the only member of the late government who heard it for the first time, for he was confirmed without almost any exception by the whole of his late colleagues, and be had the authority of that one, without whose sanction no such legislation could have been proposed by the late govern ment—his noble friend, who was prime minister in the late administration, for saying that he never heard of such an intention, and that he was equally surprised with himself to learn that the statement had been made in that house, that the late government intended to propose to legislate immediately for India. (Hear.) He did not dispute the high authority of his right hon. friend (Mr. Mercies), nor would he seek to depreciate it, and he gave all the advantage of it to her Mejestv's ministers. but he thought it important that there should be no misre presentation on the !object. (Hear, hear) But then the same observation applied to the opinion at his right hoe. friend, as to his hon. friend the member for Huntingdon, that was, he was in favour of the home government of India without change. (Hear.) He had now answered the arguments against delay that were drawn from authority. He must now touch upon two other reasons which were urged for delay by the right tem. baronet, the First Lora of the Admiralty. The right lion. gentleman urged that the present state of India would not permit any delay in legislating for its future government, but with great respect for the right hon. gentleman, he must beg leave to