The Express. — London, England, 1851-02-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORI)&-FRIDAT, Fee. 14. The LOUD CHANCELLOR took his seat at o'clock. PETITIONS PRESE'NTED. A large number en PAPAL AGOSlbilltOta, by several noble lords. Cor T SOLD Ea eneueu ewe:cr.-13y Loed CAMPBELL, from places in Suffolk ; and Lord CRANWORTH, from • place in Durham, praying fur the abolition of copyhold tenure. M ?Ara ST(1.1: MARINE 1311. t..---By the Marquis of LON DONDERRY, from Sunderland, against this bill. Low or PATaNTs. - -13y the Earl of CARLISLE, from Huddersfield, praying for a reduction of the cost of obtain ing patents. MARRIAGE AFFINITY 111 LL. Lord CAMPBELL inquired when the noble earl (of St. Germane) intended to move the second reading of this bill ? The Earl of St. GERNIANS had postponed it from Tues day next until the Vith inst., to meet the convenience of the lord president of the council and other noble lords; gad it was his intention to bring it on on that day. RAILWAYS IN NORTH AMERICA. Lord MONTEAGLE presented • petition from New Brunswick on the subject of railways in British North America ; and urged the importance of establishing an in dependent line of redeems. between Halifax and Quebec. It tail been pressed on the attention of the home govern ment by Lord Cathcart, Lord Falkland, and Sir William . Colebrook.. and others. Major Robinson and Captain Here demon, of the Engineers, hail reported upon the practicabi lity of the line ; and his nobles friend Earl Grey, in referring that report to the colonial legislature, stated his conviction of its importance. It would not be • profitable specula non m the railway menienissi..ne rs had reported, but it WAR a twitter of state policy, and de eserved the assistance of the imperial government. It would be must important in a military point of 'lt., and it would open a district of country in Canada mid New Brunswick in which there e• now 7,000,01111 of ungrented acne. The importance of such • line was shown at the time of the Canadian rebel lion, when it was found difficult to get troops from New Brunswiek. A great number of persons had emigrated from New Brunswick to the United States; and the people of this country preferred the United States to British North Americas, because there was more social preen.* and greater advantages in every respect in the Ended States. This W 11.1,1, powerful argument in favour of the mother country siontinte her colemits in North Ame rica. lie thought it behoved the British government not only to do all it could to promote the great national object, but also to take care that no step shotild be unad visedly taken by the coloniis that might stand in the way of the completion of this important project. (Hear, hear.) Lord STANLEY held that the establishment of • line commuoieation between 'Halifax and Quebec -700 miles through llritish territery - uniting two essential points of the power of this country, at present separated ley a wilderness on one aide, and by • frozen cost on the other, rendering commu nication between Rune points, now difficult and uncertain, rapid and constant aver. an of jett ,if primary importance to the interests MA well as the material powered' this country in America. (lieu, hear.) Its physical power es well as political power was of such importance that they should open • way to the teeming thousands that were drafted from this country to that healthy climate within a limited distance of their shores, now, by the improvements in steam navigation, brought within twelve days' communication with this country. (Iliac.) Thu Amerisain government spread their roils and extended their communication into the deserts, 1111'0 theeengle they did not pep for a very long period ; and they established pcotselhees and forwarded mails at great expense, because of the great convenience re sulting. By these means they brought about the cultiva tion of land ; and, if this country wished that its colonies should follow the example set them by the United States, they should-if net from their purees, at least front their mead and with their advice and assistance-enable them to undertake works which of themselves they were in capable of undertaking. (Hear, hear.) These works di vided themselves into three portions, through three separate provinces, under the control of three separate legislatures, eachdill-rent from the others. Yet they all expressed an anxiety that the cork should lee undertaken. (Hear, hear.) They further guaraut.4-41 a sum of money with a donation of land-some ten miless on either side of the rsilway, amounting in all to some live millions of acres-and ell they required was the countenance and support of the home government. (Hear, hear.) They stated that they could net complete this work unassisted. Nona Scotia would have 110 miles of railway; the population of that place being in wen, parts very 111.11 , 1 r, soil in other places very scattered. (Hear, hear.) In Noss Scotia then they would have 130 miles of railway constructed; and that would form part of &trunk line tee Quebec, which, whether the home govern ment entered nn the matter or not, would be taken up, and a line of communication established between l'ort land and Quebec. (hear, hear.) The legislature eef Nova Scotia had an interest in the constructi ~,, eef that line, and were consequently anxious fie its completion. They had determined that that line should le e completed, not by fo reign capital, and were resided tee keep it in their own hands, as it would command the traffic of their own terri tory ; and fur that r a-en they we re resolved to mortgage the revenues eef the province tee raio• the necessary amount. la New Brunswick--the surplus re venueseif which were ant so large as theist of Nova Scotia -the line would be of great intent, and would pass for the meat pint through a rich and well timbered eountry, which also ethounded with mineral wealth ; and there they were prepared tee give the security of 11,000,000 of acres of unocrupied land on any advances that might be made. (Hear.) The whole of that country was open to British settlement; and if they opened that 1 i needcom munication, at present choetl, the nmsequencescould not fail to he mot advantageous. Ho (Lord Stanley) confessed he felt a deep interest in the application, it was a sound, a Wise, and an comomical poliey ; and, though invols ing an outlay eef money, it would ultimately bestow incalculable advantages on the commeree eef this country, as also on its naval, military, and territorial power. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord at the headed the government might, he thought, with safety offer a sum of money to he guaranteed edo the surplus revenues of the pros ewe. The colonies themselves had offered to grant a certain quantity of land to any com pany that would undertake the furniation of the line eef rail way. mod guarantee to them also au amount of 60,00 W. per annum from the three provinces. But then they attached the condition that the government should join the colunists in guarantee of a further sum. Ile (lone! Stanley) believed if the government gave that guarantee capitalists would be found in this country ready to undertake the completion of the line. (liver, hear.) There was a third course on which the government could undertake the performance of the work, namely. taking, as security fur repayment, such portions of the waste laud as they might think proper. (Hear, hear.) Earl GREY said hr did not consider it necessary to speak more than a few words den the present occasion. lie only wished to express his full sense of the importance of the subject. Ile could assure noble lords it had occupied much eef the consideration of her Majesty's government ; and he should confess the object in view was well deserving • vigorous effort un the part of this country. (Hear, hear.) lie (Earl Grey) would nut then state what the various difficulties were that stood in the way ; but he wished it to be understood that the subject was still under the consider ation of the. government. There was at present in thiscountry a gentleman eef great ability, and who occupied a high po sition in the government of Nova Scotia, deputed to repre- Scot to the government of this country the state of the Cat.% lie (Earl Grey) had had several communications with that gentleman, and had obtained great assistance Sem his information. (Hear, hear.) lee conclusion, he should assure the home that the importance of the sub ject was fully understesel by her Majesty's ministers, and that it would receive their fullest consideration. (Hear.) Lord STANLEY wished to know, as the noble earl had referred to the beneficial effects on commerce since the re peal of the navigation laws, if he would consent to lay a retorts on the table of the house of the number of foreign vessels that entered the port of Quebec in the two years previous and subsequeut to the repeal of the navigation laws ? Earl GREY was understood to dissent, on the grounds that such would not be a fair criterion. The subject was dun suffered to drop. PAPAL AGGRESSION. Earl NELSON presented a petition against papal aggres sion from the inhabitants of CNepstow. Their lordships then (at • quarter to seven o'clock) ad journed. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAT, Fze. 14. The Stamm took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. SUOMI) READlNOM.—llasiebester and Ashton-under- i Lyrae New Road; Pycecenbe and Ilickstead Turnpike Road; Bills. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. On PAPAL souarsotoN and ou the WINDOW TAX 1 Derr a ladle number of petitions were presented. SUNDAY TnADINO IN Till MITIOOPOLIO FiIETUNTION BILL.—By Sir W. CLAY, from Bethnal-green, against this ' bill. DUTY ON )(ALT.—By Mr. 11. DRUMMOND, from Chertaey, against the excite dotry on malt. OIN =AL TAXATION.—By Mr. 11. DRUMMOND, from Chertsey, fur the removal of the expenses of gaols, police, and lunatic asylums, from the county rates to general taxation. Jaw. in FAILIAMENT.—By Mr. 0. BUNCOMBE, from a place in Yorkshire; Lord GALWAY, from Eiut Retford ; against the admission of Jews to parliament. RILIOIOCS LIHRKTY.—By Mr. 11. ORATTAN, from Nasals, against interfering with religious liberty. ECCLISIASTICAL TITLES.—By Lord ARUNDEL and SURREY, from Armagh, against the proposed measure of the government on this subject. Tan SLAYS TRADE.—IIy Mr. COWAN, front Edin burgh, fur more active measures for the suppression of the slave trade. kiIIIICULTURAL DIOTRTNo.—By Mr. CHRISTOPHER, from a place in Lincolnshire, complaining of agricultural distress, and for a modification of the import duties. COUNTY FINANCIAL Dot nos.— By Si, G. B. PECHELL, from directors and guardians of the poor of Brighton ; Mr. M. GIBSON, from the guardians of several unions; Mr. BRAMSTON, from a place in Ewes, in favour of county financial boards. TAXIS ON KNOWLEDGE.—By Mr. M. GIBSON, front the central committee of Lancas hire and Cheshire Union of Mechanics' Institutes, in favour of the abolition of taxes on knowledge. COPTHOLD TINCRT.—By Sir E. N. BUXTON, from • place in Surrey, fur the enfranchisement of cupyholds. BIBLE MONOPOLY. Mr. HUME gave notice that on Monday he would move for a copy of the license under which the Queen's printers and the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge claimed the ' exclusive right of printing the Bible. PAPAL AGGRESSION. Mr. GRATTAN gave notice that on the first reading of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill he would move the onnwion of the wont " United Kingdom." The SPEAKER said that it was not open to the hon. member to make such a motion nn the first reading of a bill. The proper time for doing so was in committee. CUFFS-STREET (DUBLIN) SAVINGS BANK. Mr. REYNOLDS envy notice that on Monday. the 17th, be would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he fatiesded to propose a vote of money for the payment of the eigositon in the Cutfe-street Savings Bank. NEW APPOINTMENTS. Mr. W. WILLIAMS gave notice that on that day fort night he would move for a return of all new places and ap pointments created since April, 1848. FIRE AT ST. JOHN'S, NEWFOUNDLAND. On the motion of Mr. W. FAOAN, the following return was ordered:— Copies or extracts of the correspondence between the Governor of Newfoundland and the Secretary of State for the Colonies, in reference to the appropriation of the subscriptions raised for the relief of the sufferers at St. John's, by the Bre in 1846. CEYLON. Mr. FRENCH wished to ask the Under Secretary for the Celonics, why the letter of Mr. Glenny to Sir Emerson Tiniest had not been printed with the correspondence res =Ceylon, lately delivered to members , and whether any objection now to lay it or its contents on the' table of the house. Mr. lIAWES said that in replying to the question of the hon. member, it would be necessary for him to enter into a short explanation of the circumstances relating to the letter alluded to. During the inquiry before the Ceylon committee a confidential letter was produced by Sir E.Tennent which had been written by the Archdeacon of Colombo. It was doubtful whether Sir E. 'Ferment had, or had not, the proper authority to make use of that letter before the committee. Ile had permission to make use of it in Downing-street, and no further. It was, however, produced by Sir E. 'ferment, and read to the committee. Some re proach appeared in a public journal or periodical publica tion on the conduct of Sir E. Tennent, and he wrote a let ter to Earl Grey, in which he vindicated the production of the letter, and his letter was accompanied by one from Mr. 61enny, who stated that Sir E. 'ferment was justified in making use of the archdeacon's letter ex he had done. That was the letter to which the hon. gentleman referred ; but Earl Grey refused to receive that correspondence on the ground that until the Archdeacon of Colombo had an op portunity of expressing his own opinion, and making his own explanation, it would not be just or right for him to receive a statement from another respecting it. And under these circumstances the letter of Mr. Glenny was not to be considered as being in tie possession of the Colonial-otfice. lie (Mr. Hawes) under the diction of Earl Grey had written an answer to Sir E. Tenncnt to this effect. LIMERICK WORKHOUSE. Mr. P. SCItOPE wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether it was true, as reported in the local jour nals, that the number of inmates in the Limerick union workhouse exceeded the limit allowed by the sealed order of the pour-law commissioners by more than 7UO; and, if so, whether mdse cuuunimioners had taken any steps there- upon . Sir W. SOMERVILLE said it was true that the pm sure on the Limerick workhouse bail been very great for some time back, and the commiadonics bail not failed to call the attention of the guardians to the state of things which existed with a view to pros iding a remedy. On the 2.3 rd of November the elms of inmates in the house amounted to 106, and on the 28th of December it itmireased to 610. But in consequence of the additional accommoda tion which was provided by the guardians this camas was reduced on the 4th of Ju ly to 124. It was quite true that on the lot of February the eliessa of inmates was 775, but in consequence of fresh accommodation which was pro vidivl by the guardians, that caress was reduced to 507. VALUATION OF IREL AND. Mr. SCULLY wished to know trues the Chief Secretary for Ireland, if it was the intention of government to intro- 1 duce any measurethis session to correct the mode of taking the general valuation of Ireland (now in progress), against which several complaints had been made. Sir W. SOME RVILLE said that it was his intention, on Monday next, to introduce a bill relating to the valuation of rateable property in Ireland. UNSIAMPED PUBLICATIONS. Mr. MOWATf wished to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he could state the precise grounds on which proceedings had been instituted hg the Board of Revenue against Messrs. Bradbury and Evans, the printers of a monthly journal published by Mr. Charles Dickens, under the title of the llousrhold Sarrative, and what par bruiser point the right hon. gentleman alluded to when be stated, a few evenings ago, in answer to a question of the hon. member for Manchester, that the argument was to be taken before the Barons of the Exchequer ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the question put to him by the right boo. gentleman the member fur Manchester was, whether • certain ouit was going on or not, and he replied that it wee. A second ques tion was then put to him, which he declined to answer. The question put to him by the hon. gentleman was not put to him before, and he was not prepared to answer it with out notice. Mr. M. GIBSON said he was the member for Man chester who put tho question on the occasion referred to. He wished to know whether the right hon. gentleman could inform the house what was the nature of the point about to be argued before the Court of Exchequer ? (Laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that question was one which he did not consider it expedient to answer. (Hear, hear.) On the motion of Mr. B. Oseonwe a return wen or dered of the names of all persons holding any offices in the Incumbered Estates. Court in Ireland, with the amount of salary paid to each, and stating whether or not previously employed in the public service, and in what capacity. TRH SUGAR TRADE. Mr. P. MILES wished to put two questions to the PTIF sidiet of the Board of Trade, of which he had given notice. It was necessary for him first briefly to state the facts on which his question was founded. A cargo of sugar from the Havannah was imported at Bristol, in a Belgian ves sel, in December last, and the regular duty of 17s. per cert. was paid, without objection. Subsequently' a surcharge was made by the authorities in London. A surcharge of 20 per cent was claimed under an order in council, which issued under an act parsed in 11426. That act was repealed by the late Navigation Act, and though the latter act gave the go vernment power to issue an order in council for the establishment of reciprocal duties between different governments no such order had been issued. His brat question was, whether the government intended to issue such an order in council, and whether there was any other nation besides Belgium with respect to which this sort of thing could happen. His second question was, whether information had reached the government of the reduction in Belgium of the duty on relined sugar to the amount of 3s. 6el. per cwt. ? Mr. LABOUCHERE said the facts of the ease were as the hon. gentleman had stated, namely, that under an order in council, which still remained iu force, a ditferential duty of 20 per cent. was levied upon all goods imported in this country in Belgian vessels. Belgium being the only country whose shipping was subject to this disadvantage, the British government were now, and had been for some time, in nego tiation with the government of Belgium, with a view to a satisfactory arrangement of the navigation laws of the two countries. Ile had every reason to hope that that negotiation would be brought to a satisfactory conclu sion, and whenever that should be the case the government would be prepared to abolish the differential duty by the only means in their power, namely, by issuing an order in council. With regard to the second question of the hon. gentleman, relating to an alteration in the drawback on re lined sugar, which hail been made by Belgium, he would read an extract from a despatch of Lord Howard de Walden, the British minister at Brussels, which contained all the information the government had upon the subject. Lord Howard de Walden said :—" The government has decided to reduce the drawback allowed on the export of refined sugar from 63 franca to 69 francs 75 centime', per 100 ki logrammes,thus reducing the duty now standing at about 3s. ed., by about Is. ed. per cwt.' Our minister bad also transmitted a copy of the order by which the reduction was effected. THE LANGUAGE OF ACTS OF PARLIAMENT. Mr. STUART wished to learn front his hon. and learned friend the Attorney-General, whether he intended to bring in a bill to repeal the act passed in the last session entitled, e An Act for shortening the language used in Acu of Par liament." That act provided that words importing the masculine gender should be deemed and taken to include females—(Laughter)—and that the singular number should be deemed and taken to include the plural. This was a matter which affected their proceedings from night to night. Shortly after the act in question, an act was passed to au thorise the appointment of a sheriff of Westmoreland, and as the law stood, her 'Majesty might appoint one or more women to be sheriff of that county. He thought the pass ingot the act must have been quite an inadvertence. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said there were objec tions to the act referred to, but as the hon. and learned gentleman had given no notice of the question, he could not give a distinct reply. Mr. STUART said he should move for leave to introduce, a bill to repeal the act. TAE APPROACIIING FINANCIAL STATEMENT. Mr. CARDWELL wished to inquire of the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he would ask the house to come to a vote on Monday, or content himself with simply making his financial statement ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it would tend to the convenience of the house if he took a vote in the first committee. It was his intention to propose. in committee of ways and means, the renewal, for a limited time, of the income tax, and the stamp duties in England and Ireland. He presposed, in fact, to adopt the course which was taken by Sir Robert Peel in lets. Mr. DISRAELI must confess that he did not understand the right hon. gentleman. Did he mean to propose to take a vote on the income tat on Monday The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said what bm intended wag tO propose a vote. If the House of Com mons was premixed to give him that vote on Monday, he was prepared to take it. (Laughter.) If the debate was adjourned, he must take a vote on the fat night that he Mr. lino Mtended , wished to know whether the government Intended, before asking the house to renew the income tax, THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 15, 1851. to submit, in e with their former promise, any plan for a general revision of taxation? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not aware that he had ever made any promise to do so. (Hear, hear - - .) Mr. HUME said he had made a motion on the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repeated that he did not remember having given any promise. Mr. BAILLIE wished to be informed whether it was the intention of the government to propose the renewal of the income taa in its present shape, or with some alter- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would sug gest to the house that as the financial statement was to be made on Monday it was notdesirable that he should answer any further questions. (Hear, hear.) TRANSATLANTIC PACKET STATION. In reply to a question from Mr. M.Cet.Lasit, Mr. COWPEIt said that the commission appointed to make inquiries as to the most desirable transatlantic packet station would soon he able to make their report. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES. On the order of the day for resuming the adjourned de- bate being read, Mr. FAGAN said the subject had, in his opinion, been already exhausted,—(hear, hear)—and he would not, there fore, trespass at any great length. His constituents were, however, indignant at the course which the government had adopted, and would expect him to use his best efforts I to displace them from their position. It would be his aim to follow the example of the hon. member for Carlisle, and to take a Catholic view of the whole question, premis ing that he had read none of the 1.50 pamphlets which had, he was told, been published in reference to the subject. Notwithstandiug the opening speech of the noble lord, tho question still remained, had the catholics given cause fur the course now adopted towards them? Had there been any . infringement of the prerogatives of the sovereign, any Interference with the established church, and, above all, any insult to the Queen ? (Year, hear.) If there had, Roman catholic as he was, he could not be our prised at the proposal of this measure ; but he maintained that there had been no infringement, no interference, no insult. if there had been aa appearance of ostentation, Cardinal Wiseman was not to blame. The pastoral was published in the newspaper+ without his cognisance, and he had no desire that any of his pulpit addresses should be published ; but the press, in their eagerness to publish everything relating to the subject, had sent reporters to St. Georges Cathedral. It had been alleged in the course of this debate that Roman catholics acknowledged only a divided allegiance to the crown. lie asserted that theirs was no more a divided allegiance than was that of the two thousand clergymen of the church of Eng land, with the Bishop of Exeter at their head, who had denied the spiritual eupremaay of the Queen in all matters of faith and doctrine. it was objected that in becoming bishops they had usurped territorial titles, but the fact was, that in no other way, according to the invariable usage of the church of Rome, could they have been ilesig- 1 nated,not could they pmperlyexerceic their episcopal functions without territorial divisions. But they were in fart much more independent of the Pope than had been the 'nears apostolic, who were merely the delegates of the Pope; the latter being, in fact, the real bishop in all cases. Neither was the present a new division of districts. The districts had been always the same, and the innovation was merely in the title. Ile complained of the noble lord's letter to the Bishop of Durham, and its charge of insidious practices. He supposed the noble lord alluded to the recent secessions as having been produced by insidious practices and having led to what was called the aggression. For his (Mr. Fagan's) part, he attached little value to those conversions. His belief was, that looking to the temporalities of the church of England,there was much more danger in the opposite direct ion. Ile could understand the ignorance which prevailed in the mind of a bigoted and excited mob out of doors, but he had nut expected to find in that house hon. gentlemen pre pared to assert that the canons of the Roman catholic church would sanction a violation of the allegiance due from the subject to the sovereign, or was incompatible with the duty of a good citizen. Ile trusted the noble lord would reconsider this question, and pause before he forced upon a Roman catholic country a law which must involve the go vernment in inexplicable difficulties. (Cheers.) Mr. F. PEEL entirely concurred in a sentiment which had been more titan once expressed in the course of this diseumion, that although the debate had now reached the third day, it was still somewhat immature—somewhat vague and discursive in the range of the topics it embraced, and that it would have been carried on with more advantage if they hail first waited until they had ascertained in all its bearings and all its details the measure which had been propounded to them by the noble lord, and which he had moved for leave to introduce. The noble lord had hail, as he anticipated, the ill luck of satisfying neither side, so far as the lower end of the house was concerned ; for the hon. gentlemen on the twitches below the gangway on the ministerial side went far beyond what they cond . dered to be the rtspiirements and the emergency of the case —(hear, hear)—while many hon. gentlemen on his (the opposition) side of the house thought that it did not come up to that emergency. (Hear, hear.) lie had no intention to offer any observations on the course taken by the other side, but hon. gentlemen on that side had, in the course of their speeches, contrasted the measure of the noble lord with the speech with which he introduced it, and with the indignant spirit which had obviously dictated the noble lord's letter to the Bishop of Durham. Ile must protest against the question being argued as though it bad been prejudged by the sense of the country, however en lightened that general sense might be, as he conceived it the duty of parliament was something more than to en dorse the sense of the country. It was their duty to con sider and judge for themselves on all matters brought before them, and the question they had now to consider was whether the provocation which had been given by the court of Rome justified the interference of parliament, and that to a greater extent than the government sug gested ? Ile would not deny that there had been provocations. (Hear, hear.) Ile condemned as much as any man the unchristian, uncharitable, the arrogant, and haughty tone which pervaded every line of the lute pastoral address of the cardinal, but at the same time he doubted whether it justified their interference by legal enactment— or if it did, whether any measure could be framed of a more binding and stringent character than that now pro posed, without infringing on that which he believed ha was correct in saying it was the wish of every hon. member to maintain inviolate—viz., the sanctity of religions liberty in this country. (Cheers.) At the same time he should be sorry to be supposed to underrate the importance of the feeling which had been exhibited by the country in the numerous public meetings which had been held, but the real value of that feeling was not as the basis and measure of legislation, but in the circumstance that there was an overwhelming majority of the people of the country meeting together and professing and placing on record the expres sion of their hem and unshaken attachment to the protes tant religion as by law established. (Hear, hear.) And that not only as regarded the members of the established church—for they had seen the great body of protestant dissenters as well as the great body of the members of the protestant established church meeting together also, under the influence, as he believed, of that feeling to which the hon. member for Manchester had adverted— that they saw in the proceeding of the court of Rome an indication of an opinion there entertained that the Roman catholic religion was making or about to make great and rapid strides in this country. This was valuable for the purpose of removing all doubt and perplexity, and assuring part iament that the people were prepared to stand by the great principles of the reformation, and that they considered the cause of pure religion and uncorrupted faith to be indelibly bound up together with the liberties, the prosperity, and the happiness of the country. (Cheers.) Now with regard to the bill of the noble lord—whatever might be its merits, it certainly could not claim the merit of being a permanent hand comprehensive settlement of the question. (Hear, hear.) That was not its merit, nor did it lay claim to it. (, Hear, hear," from Lord J. Russell.) The Attorney- General had told the house that the only object of the measure was to provide • remedy for the specific offence which had been complained of, and the hon. and learned gentleman said that in taking that course he thought he was acting upon a wise and sound maxim of politics. (Hear.) The course might be a very wise and sound one under the ear -1 oaraitances, but at the same time it could not he denied that it would be very desirable if the position of the Roman catholic clergy in this country in relation to the government and the people generally could be placed on such a footing as would render it impossible that there should be a recurrence of that agitation and ferment to which the country had been recently subjected. (Hear.) The Roman catholics might recognise the Pope as the head tithe church, and the Pope might exercise spiritual autho rity and supremacy as far as the Roman catholics were concerned. (Hear, hear.) He was aware that there were some persons who considered that the admission of an opinion of that kind was not consistent with the oath of supremacy taken by protestant members of parliament. He (Mr. Peel) felt nevertheless able to subscribe to that oath with a clear conscience and, having taken, to maintain it. (Cheers.) He did nut take refuge in the construction some times put on the form of words—to the effect that they implied no more than a declaration that the Pope of Rome had no legal jurisdiction—no jurisdiction that could be en forced in the courts of law. What he understood by the oath was, that it compelled those who took it to acknow ledge that the claim of the Pope to a spiritual headship over the church was unfounded in sense, contrary . to the law and constitution of these realms, and unsenptural. (Cheers.) But as he was aware there were many opinions on that point. The church of Rome was essentially an epis copal one. It was a religious society placed under the govern meet of men who claimed a Divine mission for the autho rity they exercised, and these men constituted the hierarchy of the church of Rome. If they prevented the order of epis copacy and prohibited the bishops, the hierarchy would be incomplete, and the liberty of our Roman catholic fellow subjects would be encroached upon.(Cheers.) In this coun try, for near 300 years, there had been no catholic bishops, but it was found that the Timers apostolic were capable of discharging all spiritual functions touching the office of bishop. (Hear, hear.) The Roman catholic bishop was not merely the depositary of some spiritual power, as the , administration of sacraments or other like directly spiritual functions—he was believed to have, by Divine institution, a' power of governing the society, a power of ecclesiastical juris diction. They could not deny that some sort of ecclesiastical jurisdiction belonged to the bishops of the Roman catholic church. (Hear.) Every head of a society must have suffi , cient power to enable him to administer the concerns of that society. They knew that for 300 years the concerns of the Roman catholics in this country had been administered by vicars apostolic under the constitution of Benedict IV. And if a government of bishops in ordinary were necessary for the administration of the canon law, he saw no ob jection, no ground of complaint, to the Pope's constituting a diocesan form of government to administer that law. But see the difficulty and the evil of legislating on such subjects—go but a little way, and your act is impotent. ; make it something more than a dead letter, and you went leo far. (Cheers.) The Attorney-General had informed the house that he had grounds for believing that one conse quence of this bill would be to prevent synodical action, and he believed the hon. and learned gentleman made that statement on the allegation contained in Cardinal Wise man's celebrated appeal. But if that was the only autho rity for making it he (Mr. Peel) very much doubted whe ther it would be found that the resources of the Roman catholic church would be so easily exhausted, or that they would not find means to evade the provisions of the bill in that respect. (Loud cries of " Hear" from the opposition.) But though some evil hail already been experienced in Ireland, and though evil was apprehended in this country on the introduction of the Roman canon law (and the noble lord the member for Bath had dwelt with emphasis on the subject, stating, that one of the avowed objects of the con stitution of the diocesan form of government in this country was to introduce the code of the catholic church—the canon law—and with great research the noble lord quoted many Maggifrom that code), yet it must not be forgotten that t i owell, sitting as an ecclesiastical judge in the dio cesan court of London, eulogised that law as a system founded on the wisdom of man. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had read, however, a number of passages, and showed from them that the canon law was op posed to the genius and spirit of the common law. But the question was, he thought, what was the sanction of the canon law in this country, and was the submission to the moon law, and to its provisions, merely voluntary ? (Hear, hear.) There was a gnat difference between the canon law and ecclesiastical law of this country, for in stance ; hut we had incorporated the ecclesiastical law into our common law, and had authorised the civil courts to give effect and sanction to its decisions with reference to both. (Hear.) lie confessed that he greatly questioned the policy of protecting the Roman catholic laity of this country from the provisions of a code to which they only paid a voluntary submission. (" Hear," and cheers.) But it woo said—not said, for in this ease we not only knew hut felt the inconvenience of the power of synodical action—it was asked, what had we seen in Ireland? We had seen the bishops of the Roman catholic church there meeting together fur the purpose of nullifying to the utmost of their power that beneficent act of the legislature which afforded I to the middle classes of that country an opportunity that he trusted that they would not be deterred from availing themselves of—(hear, hear)—of giving to their children the advantages of a sound education in every branch of litera tore and science, without exposing them to the slightest' fear of having their faith, their doctrines, or their morals interfered with, an far as anything passing within the schools was concerned. (Hear, hear.) Ile condemned the' impropriety of that interference, seeing that we had re cognised education nt last as the great moral agent—es the great security for the stability and permanence of our in stitutions. But if our object was to interfere with the introduction of the administration of the canon law—if we wished and intended, by the present bill, to prevent syno dical action, he greatly feared we had miscalculated our resources, and left the question out of slew whe ther we should not hereafter want the ability to carry out that which we were desirous of effecting. (liear, bear.) lie felt almost satisfied that the only thing the house would do would be to afford one other illustration of how powerless was the henry arm of temporal power in dealing with the voluntary submission of the mind—imaginary sentiments, as they had been called, which rested in the breasts of the people. (Hear, hear.) It was not, perhaps, on opinion shared in by many, but, nevertheless. he was impressed very strongly with the conviction that at no period—and this, too, was owing in a great measure to the cebace of legislative restrictions—at no period was the church of England, not withstanding the dissensions and differences which had been prevailing within her bosom—(hear, hear)—notwithstand ing the efforts of those who were labouring to overlay the simplicity of the prayer-hook with ritual and ceremonial ohactrancese—(hear, hear)—not with that spirituality which characterised Protestant worship—(hear, hear)—notwith standing, too, what the hon. member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) hail alluded to the other night, namely, the effort' of those who were labouring to give to the clergy the functions of a vicarial and mediateirial priesthood—( h ear, hear) —notwithstanding all this, he believed that the church of England was never more firmly grounded in the offer time; of the great bulk of the linglish people than she was at this present moment. (Loud cries of i• Hear, hear," and cheers.) His firm impression was that the church of England had nothing to fear from the assaults of the church of itonie. The principles on which she was placed, the sufficiency of the Scriptures alone, the right of every mats to use his own judgment in their interpreta tion—these constituted for toe a position which rendered her unassailable, a position which rendered her Impreg nable to the assaults of the lope. (Cheers.) He con fessed, in conclusion, that he saw no reasons for aban doning that wise and prudent course of giving full toleration to every denomination, which the church of England, with a true appreciation of her own interests, and with a wise insight into what was most conducive to her real interests, had tardily, though, as he believed, happily at last, consented to recognise. The hon. gentleman resumed his seat amid loud and continued applause. Sir JAMES DUKE defended Lord John Russell from the charge of agitation, and recapitulated the numerous, meetings upon the subject of papal aggression which had taken place or been announces', before the publication of his letter to the Bishop of Durham. Ile declared that the voice of the country was with the premier and his measure. Mr. B. WALL opposed the measure. He saw no insult in the papal act, but only the necessary consequence of the decision of the British legislature in prohibiting all diplo matic intercourse with the Vatican. Under such circum stance's the Pope could do only one of two things with regard to England—excommunicate or ignore. By adopt ing the latter, he had chosen the milder alterna tive. The bill was a recantation of the tolerant principles once professed by the ministry, and gave an impulse. to persecution . lie ace used the government of bad faith and inconsistency towards the court of Rome. The proposed bill would make every man a Jesuit and every priest a spy. It would he found almost impossible to work it in Ireland. He thought the most gracious course would be to ignore the steps which the catholics had lately taken, whereas ho thought the proposal of the government amounted to the maximum of persecution, and persecution of the worst kind, for it depended upon the amount of mental reservation entertained by the persecuted, and would diminish in proportion as that reservation increased. Mr. HAMILTON followed up some personal observa tions in defence of his collcage, Mr. Napier, by . arguing that the act of papal aggression justified legislative inter ference, provided there was no intolerance shown to the religious principles of the catholics. His approval of the government measure must depend upon the tenor of its pro visions, of which, as yet, he knew nothing. Mr. SADLEIR wished to see protestantism resting upon faith and the scriptures instead of the factitious strength of statutes. lie proceeded to adduce numerous instances to support a complaint that Irishmen and catholics had been unfairly treated in the distribution of government patronage. Ile complained of the policy which hail hounded on the musses with the cry of " No Popery . ," reminding the agi tators that such a course was most efficient service to the cause of infidelity. Mr. MILNEIt GIBSON said he had been in parlia ment, with a short interval of absence, since the year 1837, and this was the first occasion on which he had been invited to embark in a policy upon the principle involved in the pro posal of the noble lord. (Hear.) He was thereforedesirous of taking no step in a matter of this importance without the fullest ' consideration. (Hear, hear.) He had been asked frequently to oppose the removal of disabilities from various portions of his fellow-countrymen but this was the first time he had been invited to impose di sabilities on men for their religious opinions. (Hear, hear.) For what was the bill? What the principle of the noble lord? The noble lord hail invited him to join him in passing a penal law against men who de sired by voluntary support and contributions among them ' selves to support that form of ecclesiastical discipline which they believed bestadeulated to promote the religion they pro famed. This was not a proposal on the part of English catho lies calling upon the legislature to invest their bishops with legal jurisdiction, or to give those bishops legal powers to tax this country for the purpose of spreading the Roman catholic religion. (Hear, hear.) It was nothing of the kind; but it was a proposal against those over whom he hardly thought we had any jurisdiction in the case. Parliament had not been asked to dip into the pockets of the taxpayers, or to impose any law upon the subjects of this realm, in order to support the Roman catholic religion ; but they were called on to impose penalties on men for seeking by voluntary association to support their faith. He Mr. Gibson) hardly thought that after all, it was in tended the present measure should be carried. (Hear, hear.) lie had heard certain reports that day, and there was a statement in a leading journal, supposed to have a semi-official character—the rinses, in which they were in formed that Ireland ought to be left out of the bill. (Hear, hear.) And if Ireland stood in the bill there was an under standing that it was not to be enforced in the case of that country. He did not think that such a course on the part of the government was at all commendable. It would be much better for men to be .open and fair and aboveboard, and not seek for the sake of an apparent uniformity to introduce Ireland without the intention of carrying it into effect there. (Loud cries of " hear, hear.") In his opinion it seemed strange that her Majesty's government should propose to place the catholics lof Great Britain and Ireland practically in a worse position Ithan those of other portions of this country's dominions. o lt wed had a bee div n id s :d id al th ie a gi t an it ec w — as be be c a ca use u se theyth eacltknoomawlnzethlidothnie spiritual authority of the Pope—that the house was called on to exclude these men from parliament. (Hear, hear.) All these descriptions of arguments were I constantly used, but he (Mr. Gibson) would not be de terred from scrutinising this measure because those who supported it said they were the friends and the advocates of religious liberty. They had been told that the country had ' taken up the question in a spirit quite in accordance with the principle of full religious liberty, and the ground on which this legislation was demanded they were told had nothing at all to do with any attack on religious opinion. On looking at the proceedings which had taken place in the country, he found that there had been no absence of discussion as to the tenets of the Roman catholics, and these tenets were put forward as the reason and the principal reason why the house was to enact these penal laws. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The noble lord at the head of the government, in the letter which he had put forth, and which had been the foundation of this movement, a movement which to that moment had never reached the working classes—(loud cries of " Hear, hear")—in that letter the noble lord had, in his (Mr. Gibson's) opinion made himself an ag gression on our protestantiam, because they had had a sort of Downingostreet divinity— (loud laugh ter) —given them. He (Mr. Gibson) was himself a member of the state church, and he did not profess to be able to deliver off.hand this sort of opinion as to what the doctrines of the church ought to be or what they were. (Laughter.) But the noble lord, talk ing of protestantisrn and of private judgment, had been able to point out what was superstitious. (Hear, hear.) He (Hr. Gibson) wondered how he (Lord .1. Russell), not being an authorised and infallible expositor of evangelical truth— (laughter)—could undertake to propound such a subject. The letter of the noble lord had not been a private communication; it had been a proclamation fromthe papal chair in Downing street —(laughter)--saying what their religion ought to he. This looked very like an aggression. (Continued laughter.) 1 But the other day the question of baptismal regeneration had been referred to an authorised tribunal, to ascertain whether that doctrine of the church received in a . . particular way was an orthodox one. The result had been, that it could not be decided what the doctrine of the church wax. (Laughter.) Seeing that an authorised tribunal in this country had such extreme difficulty in discovering the doctrines of the church, he (Mr. Gibson) said it was boldness, he did nut undertake to may commendable boldness, but it argued great moral courage in the noble lord to give forth a proclamation to the effect that certain doctrines were superstitious—(hear, hear)—leuvino it of course to be inferred that the doctrines so characterised or not particularly alludes! to by the noble lord were sound doctrine. (Hear, hear.) Supposing it were right to make this prod:unation of divinity to the country, and he (Mr. Gibson) must say that be doubted the policy of it, they might have prime ministers issuing proclamations denouncing other things as supersti tious. If the prime minister were a unitarian, he might undertake to write from Downing -street that the doctrine of the Trinity was not sound. (Hear.) Suck a course might lead to what he (Mr. Gibson) considered to be a great na tional evil. (Hear.) The letter of the noble lord (Lord J. Rumen) had originated a movement, be that movement great or small; and the larger portion of that letter wag occupied in condemning l'useyite doctrines and practices. (Hear, hear.) They were called on to pass this law against their Roman catholic fellow subjects on the ground that they had bishops appointed in the only way that bishops could be appointed for them—by the Pope; because these bishops had districts as signed them in the usual way, and hosauge these bishops had taken the only reasonable course they could take and hail called themselves bishops of the districts in which they la boured. (Hear, hear.) How had the letter of Cardinal Wiseman been addressed? Had it been addressed to the inhabitants of the United Kingdom. No; it had been addressed to "the clergy and the faithful," which, in the understanding of the terms, could not he conceived as' meaning anything but that he assumed that jurisdiction due to him in reference to those who submitted themselves vo luntarily to his authority. A good deal had been made of the word " govern" in the pastoral letter of the Pope, but he (Mr. Gibson) contended that that word should not frighten them. It was in the usual style of such documents, and the word was constantly used without meaning that temporal governing to which the noble lord had alluded. Ile (Mr. Gibson) asked if they were to pre vent dame catholic ecclesiastics from being called by the names of the districts in which they were to have their spiritual jurisdiction over Roman catholies ? They could not avoid having intercourse with the Pope. They could not prevent papal bulls and writings from reaching this country. They allowed these things, and they allowed the unrestricted appointment of bishop.. But they were very much alarmed when these bishops took the names of those places in which, for convenience sake, they must he sup posed to have particular jurisdiction. (Hear, hear.) Some hon. gentlemen, however, would not allow unrestricted in tercourse with the lope; and, although the penalties were repealed, yet it was held to be a misdemeanour at common law fur a Roman catholic to have intercourse with the paled see. (Hear.) They were going undoubtedly to narrow the liberty which they gave to the Roman catholic when they passed the Emancipation Bill, if they agreed to this act. There could not be the slightest doubt that this rule of law, at least, was certain—that all penal statutes were to be construed strictly. That being so inasmuch as there was a penalty of 1001. which applied only to the assumption of titles which were already enjoyed by the dignitaries of the established church, it appeared to him perfectly obvious that the assumption of other titles did not come under the statute, and therethro they were by this bill taking a deliberate step in a retrograde direction, with a view to narrow the liberties which they gave to their Roman ca tholic fellow-subjects when they passed the Emancipation Bill. (Hear, hear.) No ground—no reasonable ground had been assigned for this act; fro, although they hail been told so much about the supremacy of the crown, he must take the liberty of telling the noble lord rind the gentle men who had used that expression so much that he knew of no supremacy in the United Kingdom but the supremac y . of the law, and if the law had not been broken it was impossible that the supremacy of the crown should have been violated. If, then, it were not denied that the assumption of titles was in accordance with ; law, and no gentleman who had spoken from authority had ventured to assert the illegality of anything, email the bringing in of papal bulls, and did not apply to the as. gumption of titles, why were they to he continually hearing these eternal complaints that the supremacy of the crown had been violated, the rights of the established church in fringed, and the independence of the nation attacked ? It ap peered to him that these expressions amounted to little better than clap-traps, if ministers were not able to my that the assumption of titles, which was the matter in hand, was a violation of the law. (Hear, hear.) lle could he no party whatever to impose penalties upon Roman eatholies for ear -1 tying out their own voluntary ecclesiastical arrangements, I supported by their own voluntary subscriptions, not inter : firing with the rights and liberties of any person in these I dominimis ; and he could not for the life of him understand how those who supported the voluntary system among the dissenters could reconcile it with their consist ency to be the advocates of thisbill. (Hear.) Before he sat down—fur they should have many opportunities of discussing that measure—he would take the opportunity of expressing his regret that in the speech of the noble lord he should, with a view of preparing them for that bill, have told them of various acts of Roman catholic ecclesiastics in Ireland and elsewhere calculated, undoubtedly, to prejudice the mind and to rather induce men to come to rather a hasty and not a very just decision upon the matter that was be fore them. To tell them of the interference of the Roman catholic ecclesiastics in Ireland in education was to tell them what wait verflittle to the purpose. If the noble lord was prepared to raise the question, which was nothing more than that of secular or religious instruction, he (Mr. Gibson) was prepared to go into it with him; but when the noble lord was himself a supporter of the mixing of secular and religious instruction—when the noble lord had himself in that house advocated the interference of clergymen of the established church and of religious teacher,' of various denominations as an essential clement in public education, he did not think it either fair or reasonable that the noble lord should attempt to raise a prejudice in their minds against these Roman catholic ecclesiastics for interfering with edu cation in Ireland. Why, what was this case of interference in Ireland ? At the Synod of Thurles, 13 Roman catholic bishops advocated the non-separation of secular from reli gious instruction, and 12 Roman catholic bishops, as he un derstood, were not against the separation of secular from religions instruction. Traduce him, then, 12 protestant bishops of the established church, who would advocate the separation of secular from religious instruction. (blear.) He only regretted that in the course of the spech with which the noble lord favoured them as to the great im portance of bringing in this bill, the only two authorities that bore on the matter in hand were two reverend gen tlemen. A large portion of the speech had refer ence to the proceedings of Roman catholies in vari ous parts of Europe, matters undoubtedly of great interest, but as far as the matter in hand was concerned the only authority the noble lord gave them was that of two ecclesiastic, of the established church. The noble lord mentioned the Bishop of London and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and he said the Bishop of London had sug gested that there ought to be legislation to prevent the assumption of these titles ; he said that that was the answer which the bishop gave to one of the addresses, which was presented to him, that they ought to prohibit the assumption of any ti tles de rived from any place in the United Kingdom. And there fore, said the noble lord, he bad agreed with that suggestion. (Hear) The noble lord also said, that when he informed the Archbishop of Canterbury that it was not intended to insti tute a prosecution, his grace replied, that he did not expect the government would institute a prosecution, but he did expect that some legislation should take place on the sub ject. Now these were the only two authorities, and, with due submission, he did not think that these were the gen tlemen to apply to on this subject. Dr. Blornfield, who was in this elevated position, at his ease, surrounded with all the pomps and vanities of the world, not exempt from the in firmities of our nature, and desiring to stand alone in his glory, he confessed he did not think the proper so rt of son to be asked what sort of indignity was to be on 4 4' scr- Dr. Wiseman. Nor was even Dr. Sumner, e Arch bishop of Canterbury. In considering how far the bill which was proposed was calculated to promote the har mony of all classes of her Majesty's subjects, he hoped, if he had understood the Attorney-General, there would be one clause inserted in the hill before it was enacted into a law. He dared say hon. gentlemen might have observed a clause in bills to the effect that " this act may be repealed or amended during the present session of parliament." Now, he would put a clause in the bill proposed, "and be it enacted that this act may he broken with impunity during the present and all future sessions of parliament." (A laugh.) For he was quite persuaded, however much the noble lord might have changed his opinions as to the puerility of legislating against titles, and the total impossibility of preventing these communications with Rome, he was so far persuaded in his own mind that their law would be nugatory for any good purpose, and only calculated to cause great im itation, and that it was well described by the honourable member for Buckinghamshire as a piece of petty persecution, that he for one, if he never gave another vote in that house, would use his utmost endeavour to prevent the passing of this bill. (Cheers.) Mr. CUMMING BRUCE remarked (in reply to a state ment made by Mr. Oswald in a previous debate), that if Scotland had not partaken in the agitation, it was not that Scotchmen lacked sympathy with the English protestants, but because they felt secure that their southern brethren could repel the insult without assistance. With respect to the ministerial measure, he feared that it would be unsatis factory and insufficient. He suggested that the bill should be invigorated, the introduction of papal bulls made pinal, and all monkeries prohibited in this country. Mr. F. MAULE said he was glad to see the impatience of the house to bring the debate to a close. lie could not help being struck with a remark that had fallen from his right hon. friend (Mr. Milner Gibson) that the matter wag out of the jurisdiction of the home ; and that it ought to confine its duties to matters connected entirely with taxation and the ledger. (Cheers.) But the house had duties ,superior to that. It was its duty to see that those rights end liberties which had been handed down to us by our fore fathers should be delivered unimpaired to those who were Ito follow alter us. (Cheers.) But his right hon. friend I seemed to endeavour to catch the attention of the house more by the misrepresentation of his noble friend than by any any other plan. In the first plane, he had totally forgotten to refer to the speeches which had fallen from his noble friend, hut had stated that, from his chair in Downing street, the noble lord had issued a certain letter in which he had taken upon himself to instruct the country in spi ritual and ecclesiastical doctrines, His noble friend had done no such thing. (Cheers.) Ile stated distinctly that he had been guilty of no such act of presumption, but in all that referred to matters of an ecclesiastical character he had quoted the words of the Bishop of London. (Cheers.) Then, again, it had been said that before his noble friend in troduced this measure he had taken counsel with the Bishop of London and with the Archbishop of Canterbury. His noble friend had distinctly denied that also, for, on tire contrary, he had informed the archbishop and rishop who he had resolved to do. Both he and his colleagues had framed the measure entirely upon their own responsibility, end were indebted for advice to no ecclesiastical authority, es indeed they had consulted no clerical authority what ever. (peer, hear.) Ilia right hon. friend went oa further to say, that it was the noble lord's letter which stirred up all the strife in the country. Now, it wee a well-known fact that the l'ope's unwarrantable bull had been in the country three weeks at least, before the letter was ever written at all ; and the bur had drawn and itself signed the very remark able petition which bad emanated from them before that letter appeared before the public. (Heart Therefore, he said. his noble friend had been most unfairly dealt with, and the part he had taken in guiding the public opinion would ere long receive the gratitude of every class of the commu nity, and even of the house itself. (('heers) Mr. Matile then proceeded to rebut the assertion of Mr. Oswald, that the tape had hutfollowed the example set by the leaders of the free-kirk movement in Scotland. There was no analogy betwevu the cases. Before the unprovoked act of the Vatican a happy tranquillity had prevailed in the country, and the acerbities of sects and faiths were disappear ing under the influence of the tolerant police which the present ministry had always upheld. This was now suddenly disturbed. Passing from this subject to the state of the Roman catholics before this unhapy awes. sion, Mr. F. Maule observed that the penal laws had been introduced more to protect the sovereign from the cabals of the Roman catholies than with any desire to interfere with their faith. Step by step, as our protestant constitution had become consolidated and firm, had these penal laws vanished from the statute book, or fallen into disuse ; ro that in August lust the Roman catholics were in the full enjoyment of every spiritual privilege, and in the full exercise of their religion. Their church was enabled to follow out its discipline, both in Ireland and in England, with an ef fi ciency that she had not possessed in this country et least for 200 years. She did sot complain that she could not administer her sacra ments, or fulfil all her rites, or do her spiritual duties to her people as effectually under the system of vicariates in August last as she had done fur the 2110 years precedihg. (Cheers.) In fact, the whole horizon wore a calm and peaceful aspect. If he might except a few growls from the lion of St. Jarleth's, the whole scene was perfectly tranquil, and was such as certainly gave great encouragement to toleration. (liver, hear.) But on a sudden the while was disturbed. A decree emanated from the Court of Rome which took them entirely by surprise. But it scented that hon. gentlemen were not disposed to be lieve that the government were taken by surprise; but the noble lord had stated in 1848 most distinctly that sorer:l:4hr wasconeented he never would consent to the step which had recently been taken. (Hear.) But to whom was the stra tifying state of things, which he had been describing, prin cipally owing? It was attributable to no one more than his noble friend, whose conduct in this matter wonlii in fact have earned, if that had been possible, a claim to the ;liveliest gratitude of the Irish people. (Cheers.) Was there any other Irishman, or any friend of civil and religious liberty amongst English members, who would re echo that sentiment? Sir Robert Peel was too generous to assume that credit for it measure which belonged almost entirely to those who had opposed his policy. It was true he had tho courage to carry that. emancipation into effect, hut in doing so, he hail stated that to the noble lord (Rue sell). and to the great party who for veers hail contended for that emancipation when out of office, end who might have been in office but for their feeling with respect to that measure, was the credit of it due. Yet the hon. member for Carlow said that to Sir Robert Peel, and not to the made lord and the greet party of whom he was the head and ornament, were Roman catholics indebted for the blessings of emancimition. Ile maintained that the course which government bad taken in this matter was one that they were imperatively called en to take in defence of the pro testant constitution of this country, which had been most wantonly and ungratefully assailed. (Hear, bear.) An hon. gentleman had said that the act of the Pope imposed the canon law upon the catholic laity, who voluntarily came forward to submit to it. lie would say boldly that no earnest catholic could give a voluntary submission to the canon law. The suhritission was imperative, the obedience absolute. (Hear, hear.) In Kim( of that, he need only refer to that address which hail emanated from the Roman catholics of this country, carried up to the Queen by Lord Howard and others, in which they declared that obedience to their spiritual superiors and to the canon law of the church was a matter of virtue in them. (Ilene hear.) He might be allowed to say a word in reference to the duties of the office which he tilled. Ile had done all In his power to provide for the spiritisql comforts of the Roman catholic sol diery, whether in health or in sickness. (Hear.) Care was taken that on the sahhath and on their saint-days nothing but imperative duties should stand between them and the discharge of their religious obligations. In standing be the measure which the government had introduced, he did so as a protestant legislator, and from no feeling either of hatred to his catholic fellow eounnien, or of antipathy to the religion which they proftwed. Ile respected their religion, though he did not agree with them. (,fear, hear.) Ile should be' swayed by no considerations hut those of duty; he would be deterred by no fears or frowns, but would do his duty in the matter us became a sincere and loyal protestant, an independent member of that house, and the servant of a sovereign who had a paramount duty to perform. (Cheers.) Mr. SCULLY having briefly opposed the measure, Col. SIIITHORP, though be possessed no confidence in the ministry, and had witnessed umumerable evils resulting from the Act of Emancipation, would nut refuse to allow the introduction of a measure designed to vindicate the dignity and independence of the crown. (Loud cries of o Divide.") Mr. MLNTZ trusted the house would excuse him for detaining them a short time while be explained the mo tives which induced him to give his vote for the introduc tion of the bill. lie looked upon the present question es one of the most disagreeable that had come before the public since he took any part its political life. (Hear, hear.) Up to that moment he had taken no part in any proceedings or discussions on this question, wishing to hear its merits fully discussed, more particularly in that house, in °nit r that he might be üble to conic to a just conclusion between both parties. (Hear, hear.) Most of the mem bers of that house were, perhaps, aware that a meeting had been held in Birmingham on the subject, and that parties were so equally divided, that no resolutiou had tern come to. He was present at that meeting, and it wee probable that even with the little influence which he pos sessed, if he interfered in favour of any course, that course would have been adopted; but so determined was ho not to interfere, that he took no steps whatever in the matter. He was inclined to say, from the difficulties and con troversies which this question bad occasioned between both parties, A plague on both your churches." (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) so person felt leas on religious questions than he did. (Much laughter.) If hon. gentlemen allowed him to finish the sentence they would have no cause to laugh. Whet he was going to say was that he never questioned any person as to his religion when he was hiring a servant or a workmun—(hear, hear) and wished to carry out that principle. On looking at the practice of Roman catholic countries he found that the Pope had nut the power of making bishops in any country without an understanding with and the consent of the sovereign power. Ile would give the Roman catholic' every right that they had had hitherto, but he did not think they should have power now which they did not possess even before the Re formation. Another argument which weighed with him on this question was this: lie had reed history, and all history told him that where the catholic religion was established the people did not enjoy religious liberty. (Hear, hear.) He mentioned these two points in order that he might be enlightened on the subject if he was wrong. lie had some doubts as to how he should decide in reference to this ques tion. He should vote, however, for the introduction of the bill, reserving to himself the right of taki such a course afterwards as he might think fit. (Loud cries of Divide.") Mr. BROTHERTON said he had taken no part in the discussions upon this subject, nor had he any intention of taking any part in the debate. Ills hon. friend,' the mem bers for Manchester had placed him in a rather painful situation. (A laugh.) Manchester and Salford wore inti mately connected, and they might almost be said to form the same constituency. Now, he had reason to believe that the sentiments expressed by those bon. gentlemen were not the sentiments of the great majority in those places. (Loud cheers.) He would not yield to any man in his desire to promote civil and religious liberty. lie bad never given a vote against either, and he hoped he never should. Ile voted for the introduction of this bill because eminent law yers and distinguished statesmen had said that the rights of the sovereign had been infringed, and the independence of the nation invaded. (Hear ' hear.) Ik did not look upon this as a religious question, but as one connected with the civil rights of her Majesty's subjects. lie believed the Ro man catholics of the country themselves were opposed to the recent . proceedings of the court of Rome. No persons enjoyed greater influence in both the bo roughs to which he referred than some of the Roman catho lic inhabitants, and he begged to read an extract from a letter which he had received from a gentleman of that begging him to send him a copy of the Persuasion. bill, he said, '`We are—ceinfldeet that unless the govern ment will shureh may tonic into possession of, they' will pans under protect ell charities and properties w hich our the sole control of the court of Rome. (Hear, hear.) As an Englishman I ask to have those charities admisiotereil