The Express. — London, England, 1848-04-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAY, APPAL 7. Tke LORD CRANCILLO& took his *eat at 6 o'clock. PUBLIC BUSINESS. SECOND SEADINGs.—BaiI for idsallauaiiter ; Unnecessary SECOND Prevention; Bills. COMM ITTEZ- —Property Tax Bill. TAXED READINO.—Stamp Duties Assimilation Bill. THE NEW CLERK ASSISTANT. The LORD CHANCELLOR announced that l e er M a jesty Ma Georae jesty bad been pleased, by letters patent, to appoint J Shaw Lefevre, Esq., to the office of Clerk Assistant, in the roots, of Benjamin Currey , Esq., deceaaed. Her Majesty's letters patent were then read by the clerk, after which Mr. Lefevre took his seat at the table, and was congratulated by the Lord Chancellor and several of the other noble lords present. BAIL FOR MANSLAUGIITER BILL. Lonl DENMAN moved the second reading n of this bill. He had been induced to propose it from finding a in prison who had been incarcerated for a long time because the coroner could not take bail in cases of manslaughter, when in fact, if the par'y had been found guilty, he would not have been sentenced to a term of imprnoninent one-half as long as that which he had endured before his trial. The bill was then read a second time. Their lordship+ then adjourned at half-past 5 o'clock. i■N 1 HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAT, APRIL The SPEARXR took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BESINESS. REPORTS CONSIDERED.CIifton Bridge; Leicestershire Lunatic Asylum; Magdalen llcariga A n tte r ra; 13F:COND READEXo.—Landl or d and Tenant (Ireland) Bill. REIM IRT.—Mutiny and Marine Mutiny Bill. NOTICES OF MOTION. --lb Mae Acrovers.—Dr. Bovraireo, on Tuesday to move, "That it be recommended to the committee sitting ca the eatimatea to consider whether the sums applied to the public se without previous parliamentary sanction, and • nun appear to have amounted lust year to 7,438,010., should not be paid into the exchaer, and the Mum of the same be subjecte d to the vote. of the house.' CM' Nene, ASP Citterl.4 SMTLAND.—Mr. COW on \Veda.- day, to move for leave to bring in a bill to promote an csmitabie ariangemenr of the existMa differences on the subject of the churches and tWipels in Scotland, commonly known by the name of quoad sacra churches NEW MEMBER. Mr. Romllly, introduced by Kr. Tufnell and Mr. Ilayter, took the oaths and his seat for Devonport. BODMIN ELECTION. Mr. G. A. HAMILTON reported, from the Bodmin elec tion committee — "That James Wyld, Esq., and Henry C. Lacy, Esq., have ben d u ly elected burgesses to serve in the present parliament for the borough of Bodonn." The co com mittee had also come to t he following resolution t a practice has prevailed at the last election for the borough of Badmiu, and also at former elections, of io,uing printed tickets, bearing the value of five shillings each, to voters, after polling, which tickets were exchanged for re freshments, to that amount; but it has not been proved that these tickets were iasued, or refreshments given, with the knowledge either of the candidates or their agents." WORKMEN EXPELLED FROM FRANCE. Sir D. 1.. EVANS wished to put a question to the hon. gentleman the Under-Seeretary for the Colonies, respecting the workmen who had been so cruelly expelled from France. Many of them, he understood, had suffered great cruelty; some had been driven away without their clothes ; and most of them had altogether lost their furniture. Many of them were meet industrious and intelligent persons , who would be extremely useful in an y country. He unrstood they would not be indisposed to emigrate to the colonies, if encouragemetit were held nut by the government. He there fore wished to ask what facility and encouragement might be afforded them by government for doing so ; and whether it would be possible to obtain some reparation for their loss from the Provisional Government of France ? Mr. HAWES said the subject had been most anxiously th con eir sidere ob d b i y the government, with the view of assisting object f possible. Though the hinds colonisation were only strictly applicable to agriculturalfor labourers, yet, from the intelligence displayed by these men, there was every desire to give a favourable consideration to their claim. Communications bad been made to the colonisation com mittee, which had taken up their case, and it was suggested that, provided some contributions were made for the specific purpose, government might be able to effect their removal In all probability these contributions would be cheerfully raised by pasties connected with the workmen in the dis tricts from which they hail gone ; in proof of this, he might refer to a late public meeting at Nottingham. There fore he hoped that the object in view would be accomplished. In answer to a further question from Lord Mantis, Mr. HA IVES said that many years ago an act had paved, celled the Land Soles Act, which appropriated a portion of the funds arising from the sale of lands in the colonies to the sending out of labourers. All the operations of the emiaration commitaners were founded on that act. Mr. GROGAN wished to know whether like assistance would be extended to those workmen who bad been landed in Ireland, and were now in the large towns there ; and how much would be applied in each case ? Mr. HAWES was not able to specify the amount, but might do so, if the question was repeated in a few days. He was not aware that any large number of these workmen had been sent to the torte towns of Ireland. Sir D. L. EVANS said the hon. gentleman had not answered the latter question, este reparation from the French government. Mr. HAWES said that was a question which would be more properly answered by the noble lord at the head of the foreign deportment. PRICE OF ORDNANCE MAPS. In answer to Mr. Col. ANON said measure , hail been taken for reducing, in about two months, the present price of ordnance maps of 4s. to So. a sheet, to 2s. the whole sheet, or is. (id., each quarto sheet. (Hear, bear.) MANUFACTURE OF PIKES IN IRELAND. ' Mr. J. O'CONNE LL said he had givtn notice of a ques tion which be intended to put to the thief secretary for Ire land, whether the attention of the government had been drawn to a case in the head police-office of Dublin, whereby it appeared that an order for the manufacture of pikes had been traced to an officer of government. Was the hon. gen tleman also aware that that man (Kirwan) bad attended one of the meetings so much denounced in that house, and had uttered cries of a most seditious character ? Great anxiety was felt in Dublin on this subject, where the people had suffered so much from spies. He also wished to know what course the government meant to pursue—whether that officer would be retained in the service or not ? Sir W. SOMERVILLE wished the question had been postponed, as no official account of the transaction had reached him, and he knew nothing of it beyond the accounts which had appeared in the p ublic papers, some of which were extremely contradictory. Therefore he would rather not commit himself by saying anything abeut it. (Rear, hear.) Ile might add his belief, that a more meritorious officer, or a more upright and honourable man than Colonel Browne, was not to be found in any portion of her majesty's service, civil or military. ( Hear, hear.) He knew nothing of this transaction. The man, Kirwan, had alluded to what be called d irty work; and be must be excused saying that there was a great deal of strange work going on in Dublin at present (hear, hear,) which rendered it incumbent on all those who loved their sovereign and their country, to exercise a more than ordinary amount of vigilance at the present moment. (Loud cheers.! He wished not to be understood as offering any opinion as to the particular transaction alluded to, for he had really not the means of doing so. (Hear.) Mr. J. O'CONNELL said his principal question was, whether the notice of the government had been attracted to the matter. As to "the strange work going en in Dublin just now," he knew of nothing much more strange than that an officer of the government should go about ordering pikes to be manufactured. (Hear) POOR LA% OFFICIALS. Dr. BOWRING wished to know if it was the intention of the government to create a superannuation fund for poor law officials, sad whether a clause would be introduced into the biil before the house for that purpose ? Mr. C. BULLER said that the subject was deserving of serious consideration, and that it was desirable that there should be a superannuation ha d but in consequence of the pressure of other business he not been able to con sider the subject. SAN JUAN DE NICARAGUA. Mr. HUME wished to ask whether the account which he had seen in yesterday's newspaper@ was correct, namely, that her Majesty's forces had been engage:. in hostilities with the state of Nicaragua; and whether those hostilities had taken place with the sanction or under the orders of government Lord PALMERSTON said that there were no special orders given by the government. There were general orders only. The expedition in q uestion was undertaken to recover two British subjects who hut been taken at San Juan de Nicaragua. Mr. lICME —What is the use of diplomacy, if we are to h ose recourse to WaT for such a purpo•ehear.) Would the noble lord lay the corrapoudt nee on the subject on the table of the house? Lord PALMERSTON said he had already promised to do se. MEXICO. Mr. URQUHART wished to ask if her Majesty's govern ment had taken measures to secure the rights of British bondholders in Mexico in the event of a cession of territory to the United States? Lord PALMERSTON said that the government did not think it right to interfere officially, and no steps had been taken on the point to which the hon. gentleman referred; but it was evident that, if a state gave to a foreign or a domestic creditor a mortgage en its revenues, that mortgage would apply to whatever portion of that state remained, and no partition of the territory of such state would lessen the claims of the creditor. BELGIUM. Mr. I.:n(IuHART wished to ask if her Majesty's govern ment had entered into guarantee of the crown of Belgium, or in any way had compromised themselves in engagt ments to maintain, in consequence of recent events on the continent, the existing Male of things ? Lord PALM ERSTON said that her Majesty's govern ment had entered into no new engagements whatever with regard to Belgium or any other portion of the continent. (Hear.) The house was in possession of the treaties of 1531 and 15.19, which contained certain engagements and guaran tees on the part of France, Great Britain, Austria, Russia,- and Prussia, rehiting to Belgium. What those were any oue might tmiew who referred to the treaties. (Laughter.) THE CHARTIST DEMONSTRATION. Mr. H. DRUMMO.ND said that he wished to put a question to the hon. merri!w? for Nottingham as to the course he meant to pursue next 10 0 ndaY.. lie bad seen in the public papers that it had bee's agitated at the meetings which that hon. gentleman atten,led, wlAit was to be done in case the house refused to receive the petition to be then presented. He did not believe that a !Ingle individual in :rid. It would be that house would say no to its bein g rece: receiyod Nft matter of coarse. (Order, orde.) sa tai tientleman In the petition before the house. Mr.O'CONNOR said he had given notice on Monday week last that he would make • motion on the s t next Mon day on going into committee of supply. He here since learned that there would be no supply on that night. Came, there fore, the noble lord at the head unitye government was kind enough to give him an opportty he could not bring the subject forward on that night, and would be obliged to give notice for another night. As the petition was one of great importance, and signed by millions of persons, he hoped the noble lord would consent to his bringing forward the subject on Monday. Lord J. RUSSELL signede should be unwilling that • petition so numerously s should not meet with every consideration from the house. (Hear ) Ile did not think it would be advisable, both because there was other import ant business fixed for Monday, and for other renews to which he would not then refer mere particularly, that the govern ment should give up that day. But considering, the im portance of the petition, and the circumstance of its being signed by such numbers, and that every petition of such • character should have an early consideration, to he th wou e s ld con sent, at the sacrifice o f the p ublic business,ubject being brought under the notice of the house on Fridays (Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT wished to put a (motion relative tothe notice which had been published touching the meeting prto posed to be held on M onda y . (Oh, oh.) Ile wished know whether the notice applied to both the meeting and the procession, or to the procession only ? Ile asked the question because very intelligent parties held different opinions on the point, and the newspapers themselves did not agree in the interpretation to be put upon it. He was afraid that a difficulty might arise from say misunderstanding, and the right hon. gentleman would admitat hu r t ) he w re as • dif fsrence between the two cases. (Hear, lf the people might meet quietly, it was one thing, and if they were not permitted to march through the streets in great numbers it was • different thing. (Hear.) If there was any misun derstanding on this point there might be a risk of collision , and disturbance, which e very member of that house would wish to avoid. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY said that the government endeavoured, is the notice which they publeshed yesterday, to state as distinctly as possible what the common and statute law of this country was with regard to assemblages. Aesecablages, for whatever purpose convened, which were attended by circumstances calculated to strike terror into the minds of her Majesty's loyal and peace able subjects, and tsmultuous meetings assembled for the purpose of bringing petitions to either house of par liament, and accompanied by an excessive number of per sons, were, he believed, illegal. (Hear.) The hon. pro mangentle- asked whether the meeting, separated from the sedprocession, would be illegal ? That would depend altogether on the circumstances under which such meeting was held. Any meeting held under circumstances such as he before alluded to—that was to say, calculated to inspire terror and alarm—just terror and alarm into the minds of her Majesty's loyal and peaceable subjects was, he appre hended, against the common law of the land. (Hear, hear.) And any meeting held for the express purpose of coming in procession to that house, accompanied with ex cessive numbers, for the purpose of petitioning either house of parliament, was, he apprehended, a violation of the statute law. (Hear.) But the question of legality or illegality must depend on the circumstances of each ease. In order that there should be no misoike, he hoped the house would allow him to read the dictum of Lord Mans field, one of the most able judges that ever sat in the Queen's Bench, ou the XtiiSioll of the trirl of Lord George Gordon, in 1781. In his summing up to the jury he said that a doubt had been thrown out as to whether it was law ful to .resent • petition to the House of Commons which was attended by more than ten persons. But, in conse quence of the dear-bought experience of the consequences o hich resulted uuder pretence of' presenting petitions, an act of parliament had passed in the reign of Charles 11. forbidding more than 10 persons from accompanying the presentation of any petition to the king or either house of parliament. It was said that the law was repealed by the Bill of Rights, but he said that be /poke the joint opinion of the judges, in declaring that the act of Charles 11. was in full force. He then alluded to the case of the Seven Bishops, and decided that neither the Bill of Rights nor any other statute had re pealed the act of Charles 11., and consequently that the cteuding a petition to the house, accompanied by more than 10 persons, seas criminal and illegal. (Hear, hear.) Such was the open on of Lord Mansfield. But he wished, as the case of the Seven Bishops had been alluded to by Lord Mansfield, to refer the hon. gentleman, not to the letter of an act of parliament, but to what the constitutional law was. This subject was discussed in the 12th vol. of the "State Trials," namly, that for the year IbBS, when this trial took place. Judge Powell, who was dismissed from bis office for asserting the right to petition, drew a distinc tion between the right to petition and the right of tumul tuous petition accompanied with a large demonstration of physical force for the purpose of overawing the legislature. (Hear, hear.) The subject had an undoubted right to peti tion, but it should not be in a criminal or en illegal manner, and be hoped no idea would go forth that the course the government was taking was founded on any desire to restrict in the slightest degree any portion of the people of this country from petitioning that house. (Hear, hear.) In answer to a question from Lord It. 0110S1ENOR, Sir G. GREY said the only notice he had received of the meeting he had collected from the published announcement of the chartist body themselves, and signed by three indi viduals, one of whom represented himself to be the secre tary. It was announced in that notice, that the object of the parties who issued it was for the purpose of assembling the people to the number, it was said, of 300,000; but with regard to that he expressed no opinion—(cheers)—in order to make a great demonstration of physical force in faviur of a particular question, and to accompany a certain petition to the door of the house. Mr. O'CONNOR—WiII the right hon. baronet allow me to ask him whether he has received a deputation to-day from the parties who issued the notice on the subject ? Sir G.GREY said that three individuals, who represented themselves to be members of the national convention, at tended at the Home-office to-day, and saw the Under-Secre tary of State for the Home Department, in the presence of the Attorney-General and Mr. Hall; but he, himself, was not able to be present. Ile had, however, received a letter from these three persons, which, with the permission of the house, he would read. (Hear, hear.) The letter was dated —" Home-office, half-put two o'clock, p.m.--Sir We, the undersigned delegates appointed by the national convention, beg to inform you that the national convention never has advised, and they repudiate:the idea of calling, an armed as semblage or procession, and we can assure you, on the part of ourselves and the national convention, that we shall discoun tenance any attempt to create disorder or break the public peace. We, therefore, avail ourselves of this opportunity of informing you that the procession will take place on Monday next, and in the event of any disturbance taking place, be assured it will not be caused by those who join in the pro cession. We are, &c., G. W. M. Reynolds, E. Clarke, and J. Wilkinson." oh.) Sir R. H. INGLIS—I wish to ask the right hon. ba ronet whether, through his undersecretary, he condescended to receive three individuals as the representatives of a na tional convention sitting is London ? (Cries of " Oh, oh !") Sir, the house may cry " Oh, oh !" but I respectfully insist that I have a right to ask the question. Does the right hon. baronet not recognise the existence of • national convention existing in London by condescending to receive a letter from three of its representatives? Sir G. GREY—The answer I have to give the hon. baronet is, that the three gentlemen who attended the Home-office to-day were not recognised as delegates of the national convention. (Cheers.) It was distinctly stated to , them by the under-secretary that they were not received as delegates of the national assembly, but as coming from a meeting held at a certain house, and in that character only they were received. (Cheers.) Mr. WAKLEY wished to put a question to the right hon. baronet in connexion with this subject. During the last month it had been publicly stated that this meeting would take place, and that there wo uld p robabl y be 500,000 pre sent. (Olt, ob.) Hon. gentlemen might cry " Oh, oh," but he believed there were 500 , 000 people in this county, and 500,000 who felt that they were not represented in that house. (Cheers.) He wanted to know how it was, if this proces-ion was illegal, that the people did not receive infer =alien from the government on the subject before. (Cheers.) Sir G. GREY—Simply because I had not received that information which the hon. gentleman, better informed than the gaverament, seems to have had. (Loud and protracted cheering.) It is true it was stated some time ago that a great meeting would take place in the metropolis about the 11th of April, but the first published advertisement which I saw of any such intention was only received the day before yes terday, on which a cabinet council was held, and the notice which was published yederday decided on. (Cheers.) Mr. WAKLEY--As the right hon. gentleman has more than answered my question, and alluded to me particularly, and as the cheers which his remark elicited—(order, order, chair, chair) — Sir It. INGLIS—I rise to order. The SPEAKER. said, if the hon. gentleman rose to put another question he was quite in order, but if he rose to debate the subject he was out of order, there being no ques tion before the house. (Hear, hear.) Mr. WAKLEY—Then I move that this house do now adjoura—Haugliter), in order that there may be a question before the house. (Hoar, hear.) The right hon. gentleman said that be had a better knowledge on this subject than the government possessed. He could state positively that he attended no meeting whatever on the subject of the petitioho n, and lie had no direct communic ation with those persons w called themselves the National Convention in relation to it. He derived his information the subject from a newspaper which was the property of an hon. member of that house. He had no other source of information, and he could not help thinking that the people had been unjustly treated in being allured — Lord INGESTRE—I rise to order. Mr. WAKLEY, in being allured into the supposition that their meeting would not be interfered with, by reason of the government not giving . any earlier announcement that they would suppress th e meetin g on account of its illegality, although such meeting bad been announced for some weeks. He regretted such conduct because it was likely to be at tended with great public calamity. Mr. F. O'CONNOR seconded the motion. The persons who were concerned in getting up this demonstration had no right to suppose that their meeting end procession would be interfered with, because in 1643, when the right hon. baronet was inuffice, a procession of a similar nature, for similar ()hints, and announced in the same language, had taken place. At the time of the Refo:m Bill from 100,000 to 1:.0 000 persons filed in procession before the Home-office. In Ma a petition, accompanied by 100. 000 persons, Was pre sented in favour of the Dorchester labourers; and a slhort time since they SaW the procession of sailors. The natural conclusion to be drawn from Chao precedents was that the preserve the peace. fi c tion that if the people had been told in time that the meeting would be auppreaed they would not assemble, but now it was too late, and many of them could not be prevented coming. He recollected the time when thaw who were now in office declared that taxation without representation was tyranny, and ought to be resisted ; and it was hard that the sc hoolmasters 'should now coerce and Hog their pupils for learning too well the instruct would not ion they themselves had given. (Hear, bear.) He shrink from the responsibility thrown upon him. He was not the man to sneak out of his determination. It was his intention to attend the meeting—to come down to West minster with the procession. It was not for the noble lord and the right hon. gentleman the member tor liarwich (Sir J. C. Holthouse), from whom he had learned his levion,to come down at the eleventh hour, when every preparation was made for this meeting, and say that they intended to suppress it. He believed in his soul and con science that those who were to take part in that meeting Pad no more notion of disturbing the public peace than he hed--(laughter), and he had no nation of disturbing it. (Hear, hear.) He had been told by the hon. alderman below him that he would he the first to be shot on Monday if he came with the procession. However that might be he H s h ou ld hold it his duty to he with the posple and to take the lion's share of the danger. (ear, hear.) ' baronet had no right to presume that these who got up this demonstration —and he was not one of them—did so with a view of committing en infraction of the peace. (Oh, oh.) Sir J. GRAHAM said that the hon. gentleman had truly said that precedent had a great deal to do with the preoent question. But what had taken place in 1813, when be was Secretary for the Home Department, differed in two points from the present case. In the first place, the petition of 1843 did not emanate from • meeting publicly convened in the neighbourhood of the metropolis, and under the cir cumstances which the right hon. gentleman opposite said would attend the meeting to be held on Monday next. The petition of 1843 Was brought from a private house, and not from a public meeting. /dr. O'CONNOR.—It was brought from Lincoln's-inn fields. Sir J. GRAHAM said h e was ,peaking from recollection ; but besides, there was no notice previously given that a pro cession would come to this house from the place where the meeting was held. If that procession was attended with circumstances like the present he certainly should have failed in his auty —being responsible tor the peace of the metropolis—it he hail consented to allow a meeting to be held such as that of which notice w given for Monday,in i and which the right hon. gentleman declared to be illegalt , character. lie did not think such a meeting ought to he counteoanceil. (Cheers.) Mr. HORSMAN thought the house would act in assn just and ungenerous manner if they did nut give every • once to those who were responsible um the peace of the coun try, on the present ocessien. They should form their opinion of the propriety of the meeting from its character and not from the objects to be discussed or the numbers whoions at tended it. It could not be do ubted that great apprehens were entertained from this meeting, and for the sake of those who entertained those apprehensions, and for then of the public peace, he was prepared to plimplicit confidence in the government. (Hear.) Mr. AI& man THOMPSON said he was glad that he had given way to the hon. gentleman who had just spoken, be cause he believed his sentiments were those of every mean her of that house. (Hear, hear, and no, no.) He was not the person who said that if the hon. member for Nottingham appeared in the procession, certain cons , quences would fol low. (Laughter.) But he was surprised that the hon. gen tleman should say that he had no port in getting up the procession which was to take place on Monday neat. Ile begged to ask the hon. member for ;Nottingham, whether he hail not attended a meeting in a certain coffee house in Cripplegate, and whether he had not made use of the following language there ? (Hear, hear, and cries of " Read, reed.") The hon. gentleman here read a I eport of a speech alleged to have been delivered by the hon. member for Nottingham, in which he said that there was no use in petitioning the Rouse of Commons any longer ; that thi y must do what America hal done, shake off the yoke. It was better to die by the sword than live in slavery. The people of Ireland would not be satisfied with repeal, but would have a republic. Ile implored of them to rem demHis ber the 10th of April and spoke of it so a glorious desmust ember do moral force would put down physical force. They away with all titles as they del in France, and put down royalty, as tea expensive to the country. That was the re-' port of the hon. gentleman's speech, which had been put into his hands by a respectable solicitor, and it formed agreat contrast to the language which the hon. gentl eman used in that house. (Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNOR dec lared solemnly that the report which I the house had just heard was not what he had said. lie never was a republican. And he wrote article after article i against that form of government. So help him God he never mentioned a word about doing away with titles. lie had before declared in that house that he was not for a repeal of the union, but for separation. lie did not think be odd a word about France. lie would produce witnesses to show that be had not used the language im puted to him, and he could not have done so be cause the sentiments it contained were not his. If such opinions as those referred to by the hon. member had been entertained by him, he should not have hesitated to avow them in that place but the fact was there was not one speech which had been read to the house. Mr. lit MEsaid that it was of the utmostimportance for the house not to allow its attention to be diverted towards what took place at meetings held out of doors, for they were all aware how liable such proceedings were to misrepresentations, and how often they had been distorted to suit particular purposes when occasion reoaired. The hon. member fur Westmoi e land before he made such a statement as that which he had just done, should have obtained a report of the speech attri buted to the hon. member for Nottingham trona a short-hand writer. lie did not deny that speeches had been delivered at public meetings calculated to create great anxiety, and urging the people to commit acts of violence. But such re ports as that of the hon. alderman ought to be re ceived with great caution. They were all aware of the fre quent resorts which had been had to spies by the Government authorities, who were as capable now as they bad proved themselves formerly to be, of poisoning the minds of the people and of leading them astray. He recollected having himself arrested a spy who had gone to create disaffection in the manufacturing districts, and who carried with him for 1 I that purpose a number of seditious bills, with the view of I *carding them about those townie. The hon. member for I, Lambeth went with him in order to 'with this man ; but Lord I Sidmouth dismissed him, instead of ordering him to be de- I tained and called to account for his conduct. He was only' 1 the third spy he had been accessor y to taking. (A laugh.) , He regretted to see the house treating the sub j ect with 'hilarity. That showed they were ignorant of what was going on in the country. There had been a time when the ministers of the crown ;lad not hesitated to employ spies, who first seduced the people into acts of violence, and then ' betrayed their dupes to the gallows. The employment of those spies, and the printing of the placards which they car ried about with them, were distinctly traced to the govern ment. When they saw men out of work arid starving in the streets, could it be otherwise than abhorrent to know that the government spies were poisoning their minds and inciting them to commitacts of violence? ("Oh!") lie was speaking of what had formerly taken place, not of the conduct of the present miniders If he had not confi dence in them he would not sit where he did, he would move to the other side, fur he should not think it safe to be so near them if he thought they did not despise such con duct. If so great a falsehood had been put off upon the hen alderman as that which he had read for the speech of the hon. member for Nottingham, there ought, for the satis faction of the house and the country, to be some examination instituted into the circumstances. At all events members ought to be more guarded in receiving and repeating each statements. The government ought in particular hat to be ve ry reserved in acting upon any intormation save t which they procured upon affidavit. 1 Sir D. L. EVANS had never yet been found on the I side of those who would restrict the public meetings of the ' people, but he was bound to say on the part of his coned , tuents, the inhabitants of Westminster, that there were cir cumstances which rendered the contemplated pro cemion of Monday a peculiar Cat. For 18 years he had countenanced many public processions and meetings!, but there were sonic peculiarities which deserved mention — namely, that it was only a short tune ago that two meetings had been held, both of a most contemptible character, and particularly so as compared with the proposed meeting, but still it was his duty to state that, notwithstanding that con tempt, those meetings had created considerable alarm (Hear, hear.) He could assure the house that not only had there been great alarm created at those comparatively small meetings, but also that numbers of his constituents had suffered materially in their business. (Hear, hear.) There fore he conceived it to be his duty to entreat the government to have some regard for his own immediate constituents, and if the hon. member for Nottingham persisted in his present determination, he begged to inform him that it was veiy much to be wished lie would direct his columns elsewhere than into Westminster. For even if there were no disturb ance, there would be a great interruption to business, occa sioning farther loss to tradesmen who were not able to sustain their present adverse circumstances. Ile concurred with the hon. member for Cothermouth th the circum stances of the times, both domes tic and foreign, were unprecedented, and that the hour was come when every man—every honest man—(cheers)—every ta:111 not destitute of courage and sincerity, and more espe cially every liberal man, was bound to declare what side he was prepared to take. In that spirit he was prepared to state that he gave his willing assent to the measures adopted by the government. Mr. J. O'CONNELL said that the hon. member for Not tingham had just declared that he had never joined a society for repeal, but had been a member of an association for ef fecting a separation between Ireland and England. He begged to ask the hon. member how it was that he had for merl been enrolled as a repealer and accepted by the society as su y ch, and in that capacity alon e? He hoped that those of his unhappy countrymen who had been led away by the hon. member, and particularly those who contemplatedjoin ing the procession on Monday, would take warning from his declaration of that night, and determine to act as their kins men in Ireland ad done, namely, not to have anything to do with the hon h . member. (Cheers.) Mr. F. O'CONNOR rose eon co He nrre cteve a mistake enrol com himself as a member of a real association. He becam e a member of a society of whic h the late Mr. D. O'Connell was a pree minent member, and the only engagement he entered into was that he would immediately provide himself with a musket and a knapock. allusion to the , Id proosedings had to lay to 'ober had ut house that in a body ' and the to the - - -- house would find, on referring to the print - declaratthat ion, t h a t such an intent ion was therein a nnounced, and printed document was signed by three of the chartist leaden, Nevertheless, the hon. member now asserted that such a proceeding was not intended. What then would have been the effect, if, as the hon. member for Finsbury had urged, the government bad taken steps to prevent the procession some weeks ago? Would it not have been immediately said that tie ministers had acted prema turely, for they had nothing to go upon, and the hon. member's present declaration would be referred to as a proof that there was no intention to approach the House of Com mons in vast numbers.? With tepee% to the character of ' the intended procession, ho must first observe that every case of that kind depended on itself alone. He was ready to admit that there were occasions when it was not necessary to , resort to the strict letter of the law in regard to public meet ings and processions. But there were times when such pro ceedings produced a most disquieting effect, and the only question for the house and the government to consider was, whether the present case should lie referred to the former or the latter category. Why, the hon. member himself must be aware of die guilty hopes and designs which had been raised and created by the occasion of the intended meeting. probated at member hod told the house that he had been re- t h e meetings whic`e he attended el where—re probated for what ?—for improper conduct. For expressiag Ins attachment to royalty and its institutions. (Hear, bear.) After such avovrals, perhaps the hon. member would permit him (Lora J. Russell) to offer him some friendly advice. He had told the house that he saw ' no reason why the procession projected for Monday should not be allowed to take place in the same manner that former processions had been permitted to have effect. The government, however, looking at the circumstances of the times and the occasion, had consulted the crown law yers, having also regard to the declarations uttered and printed by the parties promoting the procession and meet ing. They then thought it their duty to inform all peeving ' that the meeting was illegal, and to warn them against at tending the procession. Had there not, he asked, been a sufficient warning given ? Were not three days a sufficient period of time for the penons promoting the meeting to re consider and alter their decision ? Those persons might have thought that the proposed meeting was not illegal— that there were precedents for it, and that it would be per mitted. They now knew that the government had declared it to be illegal, and that it had excited a great degree W of terit - ror and alarm in the m inds of p eaceable persons. as not the duty of the hon. member for Notting , ham, as he did not share the sentiments of those persons who called for • republic, to dissuade the promoters of the meeting from holding it? Was it not his duty to show them an example by publicly avowing his determine- tion not to join it Could he not state to them with truth that their petition would be respectfully received, and that every opportunity would lie afforded for a fair discussion of what was styled the per charter ? Let it be hoped that the hon. member would not carry out the determination which he had expressed, but that he would a dvise those who look,d up to him as the ir g uide not to persevere in their projected attempt to overawe the deliberations of the puha ment hy an illegal assemblage and procession. (Hear.) Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL merely rose to say that the hon. member's statement respecting a musket and a knapsack was wholly without foundation. The society to which he re ferred was put down by an act of parliament passed in lbil. It was formed upon principles distinctly opposed to the sepa ration of Ireland from England, and its views were peace able, and not those which a musket and knapsack would suggest. But perhaps what he said was quite unnecessary, as the house was probably already aware that the hon. mem ber's statements were often compounded more from his ima gination than from facts. Sir R. PEEL said, that if he rose on the present occasion to say a word, his doing so was caused by the hon. mimber fur Nottingham having mixed up his name in the discussion, by stating that the conduct of the government, in 1543, offered a precedent which ought to be the guide of the go vernment on the present occasion. He recollected no set of the government of 1ri.13 which ought to fetter the discretion of her Majesty's ministers. lle knew it bad been said that there were occasions in former years when processions of the people were allowed to approach the House of Commons. But that was only be indulgence of the executive govern ment. The Spitalfields weavers had been permitted to follow that course. But under the prevent circumstances the numbers which it was expeceted would constitute the pro jected procession were too great to be permitted to take that I proceeding. He thought the government had acted pru dentiy in not having interfered sooner. He thought it would have been said, as the noble lord had intimated, that there ' was no intention to violate the law. The present was the time when the government might properly express its inten tions; and, with reference to the precedent said to have been established in 1843, he must say that, considering the eireumstances of the times, as well foreign as domestic, and taking also into regard the state of the public mind at pre sent, if 100,000 people were to be permitted to parade the streets, it was impossible to foresee the consequences, and, in his opinion, the government hid acted rightly in taking the course they had done. For it must be remembered that con siderations of humanity alone ought to have prompted them to impose the restrictions on the people which they had done, and if they had not taken those precautions those who now denounced them for having done so would be the very first vehemently to impeach them and, in that case, he admitted with much more reason than they now had done. (Hear.) The SPEAKER—Does the hon. member for Finsbury intend to persevere in his motion that this house do now adjourn ? Islr. WAS LEY said that he would, with permission, withdraw it. Ile must however remind the hon. member for Westminster (one of whose constituents he was), that he had not forgotten, and he hoped the people would not forget, the declaration made by that hon. member in 11431, that if the Reform Bill was thrown out, he was ready tolput himself at the bead of 100,000 men, and march down to that house to compel them to pass it. Sir D. L. EVANS was quite ready to enter, at a proper time, into an explanatim of the difference between the two MPS. The motion was then, by leave, withdrawn. TREASON AND SEDITION BILL. Sir G. GREY deeply regretted that the spirit of sedition which was displayed amongst certain classes, and the lan guage tending to excite an insurrection for the purpose of subverting the institutions of the empire, had rendered it necessary for the government to come forward and ask the houso to consent to an alteration of the law, in order to enable them to meet the circumstances of the times. Nothing was further from the intention of ministers than to ask parliament to place any restriction on the deliberation out of doors which attended political events. Still less was it their desire to restrict the liberty possessed by every Englishman, Seotchman, and Irishman to draw up I petitions and to approach the house with the expression of their opinions on the state of public affairs. That right con stituted the great basis of the constitution, and to its exercise were due the liberties of the people, and their power of re sisting their invasion by the crown, and to that right alio was mainly attributable th e ha ppy position of England amidst the universal overthrow of the thrones of Europe. There existed on the part of the people of England a deep seated conviction that the peaceful enjoyment of liberty which was observed amongst them was the result of the con stitution. But there were limits even to those rights ; and w hen under when those houndories were transgressed, and pretence of discussing political questions treason was spoken, was it to be mid that government was to be deprived of the power of meeting those occasions ? lie would not enter into a detail of ewe. proofs which he had to offer of the treason able lanctuage ich had been uttered at public meetings. The daily newspapers offered too many examples of that language. The right hon. Bart. opposite had referred to the events which had taken place in foreign countries; and al though he was ready to admit that those occurrences had not produced any ill effect in the minds of the mass of well informed people, still they had had a very considerable in thence over the actions of a great number of persons, and he was induced in consequence to propose the measure which he was about to submit to the house. During the last three weeks, the lanrnage that had been held at certain public meetings in Ireland was incompatible with the security of the I peaceful inhabitants of that kingdom, and their enjoyment of those institutions under which more freedom was guaranteed to them than was possessed by any other nation in Europe. The government had bees reproached for not having taken steps sooner to repress those treasonable speeches which, he regretted to say , had been too willingly listened to by those who heard them. The Lord Lieu tenant of Ireland bad directed his attention to them. At first, he treated them as mere ravings, but tinning that they had produced dangerous effects, and that they hail stimulated disaffected persons to avow their designs, and to endeavour to combine with foreigners to render the present institutions of Ireland insecure, the Lord Lieutenant felt that it became his duty to take some steps to check those proceedings—to put a stop to the sedi tious speeches and writings of those who promoted them, and thus to obviate the evil effects which they produced. Fur that purpose prosecutions were instituted for sedition against certain partits. What was done in consequence by those parties? Was the government met by an intimation on their part that they would in future conform to the law ? No such thing. The ministers of the crown were met by a declaration of an intention to resort to open violence, and were told that, ism...much as they were indicted for sedition, they were now anxious to commit high treason. (Hear.) When he used the word high treason, he was afraid he might he misunderstood. He might lie asked why the go vernment had not prosecuted those persons for high treason. But, it must he observed. that sedition and high treason were difficult to distinguish, although it might turn out that those who thought they were only committin sedition, had ren dered themselves liable to be punished for the graver offence --end to he subject to the extreme penalty awarded to that crime. But, it must be recollected that the persons who talked in this manner were lawyers, or law-advised, and that whilst exciting others to treason, they thought they were quite safe themselves. But, in this, he thought they might hereafter find themselves mistaken, for if by those exciting speeches others had been induced to commit acts of treason, those who so incited those crimes by their speeches might be brought within the pale of the law of high treason. However, as yet no overt acts of treason had been committed, and this enfunderation brought him to the immediate statement which he had to make on the subject et the measure which he had to propose to parliament. In the Nation newspaper would he found detailed in.tructions for the construction of barri e.des, and sheering how the Queen's troops might best be interrupted and even murdered by missiles from the win dows of houses, whilst performing their duty. This species of street warfare had been studied by these who described it, and the writers in the paper he had named did not hesitate to deelarnthat their object waste. drive the Queen's represen- Wire, the Lord Lieutenant, out of the kingdom, and to in- Mal a republican government there. Oa the as haviag 23rd of March he found t he following speech reported been delivered by Mr. Mitchell, at one of the meetings to which he bad referred : am charged with writing seditioes artklee, having • tendency to inflamer..th.ticeternlt i lho de arin o : f io th L e .nir peo wel: p 6 Nt ied n i teynithtti . e : .a ci : te a:: d t,i., i iecon uc l ie . dfkc T en wti o o t t- :d n l te. , ( h d ite e: l e ne_ r wr i w n: t h,.d t c: they should be wen-affected -towarda the g overnment , of England. (Loud cheers.) On tbe day this confeleratiun was ormed, 1, as you remember, came forward and declar , d fay , elf a disaffected subject, and promised to denote myself continually to excite disaffection in t at p r (" an hear," and loud cheering.) I think I have kept that promise; and, come what may, I will continue to do et. (Loud cheers.) person w ho spoke thus wa n o ne of those who had been The firmest by the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland and the law officers of the crown there, undi T the e jurguiltyisdiction outtering f the law, and who, even if he were fronof such speeches as the above, would only be subjected, as a punishment for his offence, to a moderate fine and im prisonment. Another of the persons indicted, Mr. C. G. of f ex th t s e pe h at , r,.to i w ie hos fo c un w d o t r h t DhfsodeulidiwffoarmEo'iiilad: dthreewNatht'e."&,ttweasntitohr: report contained in the papers of that person's people- guilty s a g. an iity at o le f m an pt atommeopwtdi uo s affectionn, this government,of t e which keep. its footing on our soil by .beer brute force, and by nothing else. (Loud mien of Hear, hear.") And We I tell you, that until that government he thoroughly upect, I shall not wane to write, to !Teak, to a , t s ou th . One circumstance alone shall stop Ime in thia career-my deuth. (Loud awl enthwitustic cheers.) In tbeir mum of law we shall take issue with them boldly e vilely. If we do not throw them there, we shall throwth em on a I brooder field. (Vehement cheering.) It must be dose. The news this morn i ng a nnounces that Vienna is in the bands of the people.. (Renewed cheering.) Dublin mutt he in the kande of the people it (Enthwd a stie and deafening cheers.) Stand by us, citizens, and Khali be done. (Crier of "We will, we will.") Such was the language uttered by thew persons, and those who were in the habit of reading these speeches would he aware that the more violent and treasonable the expressions, the more vehement wait the applause with which they were greeted. On the same day Mr. Reilly came forward to pro ' pose the formation of a national guard. lie (Sir G. Grey) must warn the house against adopting the supposition that I ibis proposal was merely sedition, fur it might turn out to be a far graver crime. The speech attributed to Mr. Devin Reilly was as follows . Mr. Devin Reilly then came forward to propene a resolution fee the organisation of a national guard, and in doing so was vehemently cheered. Ile ould he war eatistled that the country would see in that evening's meeting a sped beginning. (Cheers) It was his high privilege to propose , that they ehou.d take that evening the first ti a step in the broad path of freedom-(cheer) -to propose the of serim of steps for which his soul had long hungered, and for the want of which tens, of thoammln f his murdered buritrymen had perished -the formation of an armed national Ruled in Ireland. (Loud cheers.) This resolution called on the council of the confesleretion to inquire and report on the best aid mood effectual means of ore:raining and arming such a body. (Loud cheering.) That watt their : p ie ce. , to Lord Clarendon. (Cheers.) For every one of them he might imprison, hundreds would be ready to take their place. Fur every leader of iMpOrtaaCe impri soned, they would arm ten thousand men. (Loud cheers.) For every hour he confined them, they would shorten his rule in Ireland by sue hundred day,. For every hair of their heads he touched for every one be hanged; but he would not talk to them of hangine, for if there wan sufficient manhood and devotion amongst them, long before things arrived at such a paw they would wen the gaols with their pickazes and creators. long before that day every street of Dublin might be a barricade or fortress, and every pavement carpeted with blood. (Great applause.) Lena before that day they would show the tyrant out of Ireland by the light of the burning genl.t. (Cheers.) Be fore that day every field in Ireland must be fought, every ditch defended, and every ricer obtain a notorious memory to the throughout future ages. Aye, and if they were driven into the remotest corners of their beloved island, they would make the graves of their murdered countrymen the Diet nding-ground for the defence of their precious liberties, (Cheeru) If they were to fall, let them nobly fall-if they conquered, their must do AO by their own right bandit. While they had arms in their hands they might defy the whole world-without them .hey were at the beck of every petty constable. (Dear.) Four months ago, when the Coercion Bill was introduced, he called on the people to e at hall to arm. (Cheers.) Now he called on them a second tim to arm, arm, arm! (Loud cheers.) Had they armed four months ago, they would be four mouths nearer their liberty thet day. Let then lira! DOW; and when they had armed, they would be re* is, and not sooner. (Cheer.) When they were willing to aid themeelves, God would awist them, and not before. (Cheers.) They had wanften been told about Ireland's opportunity, and that the ti me not ' yet come. Now, he would tell them that no time was opportune to a nation which was not prepared to go out at any moment and tweet its rights. (Immense applause.) It wan slaves only who waited for opportunities-a nation of brave men should wasaays prepared. (Cheers.) A great movement of the people musing over the world. (Cheers.) Democracy bad wafted the Alps and entered Austria. Last week be was in Paris, and there emashed the strongeet dynasty in the world. (Loud emphatic.) Ile would preeently came to Ireland. fCheere.) soo,o°o Englishmen, chartists, would useemble in London next week, and then they would have London in their hands. ," hear, hear," and cheerful Ile pro mired them, :is a brother, that whether that time came tooter or later, the di rt budge in E ng land would he answered in Ireland. (Loud cheers.) Let them wait for that day, and prepare for it, by arming tie inselven; and, tilt that day arrived, lie had but one advice to glee them, and that advice was, to "P ut their duet in God keep their powder dry." From another of the speeches it would seem that a tree, sortable appeal hail been made to a foreign country to help these persons to overthrow the established government and Ito institute a republic in Ireland. The speech to which be referred was printed in the papers as follows: Mr. C. O. Duffy, of the Safi ot, then came forward and was re ceived with loud cheese. lie ,aid he had newe far them from Mr. fisnith O'Brien. He thought they knew tint he was no boaster. Ile believed that they could trust in what he said, and felt that he said only what he intended to do. lie (Mr. O'Brien) received lest week en address from a certain Irish club in Pans, and the answer to that address excited a storm of curiosity. The Morning Chromic!. received that day exprewed great annoyance that it could not lay its banns upon it, and the Lord Liententuat would give his eye out for it but they would be generow-they would give it to him for nothing. (Cheers.) Here it Wail. Mr. O'Brien said, anewer to the el to which he referred, " I have seen enough of France to eoneinte me that she IS able and willing, if invited, to make an effort to send so,uto her moot valued citizens to support the nation in a struggle." (Great cheering.) The =ewer of Lomartine had been received, and, like all state documents, it meant no t ; but he thought they could be indifferent to it, after the promisee of one of they truest men ringing in their ears. (Cheers.) The union Was repealed. (Cheers.) Ile thought so that Morning, bus he had 34000 t ulditknal remain for believing that it was repealed. (Cheers.)" He did not read this extract with the intention of having it believed that he attacked the slightest confidence to the statement of the disposition on the part of France to send 50,000 armed men to aid the separation of Ireland from this country. (Hear, hear.) Whatever opinion he might entertain as to the conduct and views of the Provisional Government of France, no man could read the answer of M. De Lamartine to the Irish deputation without respecting the courage and boldness which dictated that reply-a reply giving, in the most explicit, ani as he thoroughly believed, in the most honest, terms, a distinct refusal on the part of the government to interfere in any way in the internal affairs of England, or to send any men to this country, or to Ireland, to aid the deputation in their treasonable designs. (Hear, hear.) M. De Lamartine had, as a matter of course, especially under the circumstances in which he was placed, received these gentlemen with civil- ity ; but as to assistance from France, the disturbers of the I public peace in Ireland might wait for it in vain, whatever I might have been sail to some member of the deputation by come member of a Parisian club, eagerly caught up by the Irish emissary in his despair at the wholly discouraging re ception given to him by the authorities. (Hear, hear.) Hi would not impute to a member of the imperial parlia ment a design to deceive others, but assuredly Mr. Smith O'Brien, in his eager enthusiasm, wholly deceived himself, when he talked of the coming aid of 50,000 French bayonets, to the designing men et whom he was rendering himself the tool, and to the excitable band of followers for whose fate, should they not be in time prevented from incurring punishment, he would be so deeply responsible. (Hear, hear.) A Mr. Magee, in seconding the motion, spoke in still more vehement terms of an appeal to arms in vie assertion of the cause they had in view. He was sure, however, he need not read any more than he had read, to show what was the cuaracter of the advice given by these men to the excitable crowds they addressed, or what were the designs which they did not merely not attempt to dis guise, but which they unblushingly and fiercely avowed and lulled in. (Hear, hear) One word he would add, however, respecting a sentence in Mr. Itlagee's speech, which described Lord Clarendon as going about and solicit ing the protection of the wardens of the Dublin trades, for he was bound to say, in justice to the large proportion of the population of that part of the country, that, during the progreas of this agitation, the Lord , Lieutenant, so far from hav ing found it necessary to make any appeal for a manifestation of confidence in his government, had, so far back as the 27th March, informed his colleagues at home that an address hail been presented to him expressive of the fullest confi dence in him and in the government, and of the most loyal attachment to the crown, to the laws, and to the institutions of the realm, signed by persons of all ranks, professions, and religious persuasions, mauy Roman catholic clergy and pre lates among them, to the number at that date of 140; and since th at date the number of signatures appended,ooo to the declaration had been increased to 280,000. (liter, hear.) He did not, of course, deny that there were manifestations of much agitation and excitement-that speeches were delivered to large assemblages of men which greatly tended to aggravate and extend that feeling of agitation and excitement - Rpeectles most inflammatory and tending to most dangerous consequences - but he had no hesitation in expressing his conviction that, with regard to Ireland at large, there prevailed in that country a spirit of loyalty, of devotion to the person of the sove reign, and of attachment to the government and to the in stitutions of the realm, as vivid and strong as in any part of the empire. (Hear.) It was for the defence of thin loyal and well-disposed population, and of the loyal and well dis posed population of the realm at large, that the government -finding the present law too weak for the effectual suppres sion of sedition and treason-now came to parliament fur such an exteasion of the law as would enable them to deal satisfactorily with cases of this kind-with that political fever which arose from time to time, and spread terror and alarm among the peaceful and well-disposed. He would now proceed to state as accurately as he could what the law was with reference to offences of this kind. He would premise that the law in force in England was not the same as that extant in Ireland on this subject ; or, at all events, that very grave doubts prevailed on the point--doubts which bad not before been raised, no ' occasion, fortunately, having before occurred to question the identity of the law in the two countries. The general law with respect to treason was that of 25 Edward 111., c. 2, which, as extended to Ireland by an act of Henry VII., then applied to the United Kingdom ; so that any deed commit ted by a subject of the crown of these realms, coming within the provisions of this statute, was liable to the penalties of treason. The acts here contemplated were, the compassing the death of the king, the levying war against the king, or aid ing his enemies to levy war against him, within the realm or elsewhere. By the 36 Geo 111., c. 7, the law of treason was materially extended. By that act, which was intended to inure only during the life of that king, and to the end of the session of parties ent next following his demise-the act was passed Dec. 18, 1795-it was provided : That if any person or persons whatsoever after the day of the paw nig of thact, during the rustund life of our most gracious sovereign lord the Ri ng inborn Almighty Dad preserve and biter with a long and prosperous reign) and until the and of the nem „, mem after a dentine of the crown, shall, within the te.i r p - "" compass, imagine, invent, devise, or tutted death ..d,Z. L .,,.ft10 an y bodily harm tending to death or destruction mom or sr - 'i 4 n t tupriamoneutoc reatraint of the person of the samesame No.2:.- Uda the King, his heir. and oxiccesaoro, or to deprio. ' them from the style, honour , or kingly name of thevrai d e da T.,=" wpd this realm, orof any other of his majesty's domino., ow to levy war against his majnty, kin heirs and iniecei c o m -- „„... u.5 i realm, in order by force or constraint to cosy b„-"n or —"..,_ilt4 change his or their measure, or mune la, or in ihents or oundmint upon, or to intimidote,or overawe, both 5c0 r i ,;",„!,.. 1 . 11 house of parliament; or ramose Or.: it any foreig,,, roe „ ." . .rwat force to invade this realm, or env other hie . or countries under the obeisance of his Majesty, hld is .rt --- "hass mo lsa o rs; and ouch compassing., imagination.% intentions, or any of them, shall came., utter, or irkingsoy printing or writing, or by any overt ac t deed, '714 ti legally convicted thereof upon Use oaths of two lawf u l ma/ witnesses., upon trial, or otherwise convicted or dunned le• he. °ours, of law, then every mirk prison and perm.. o ffending shall be deemed, declared , and adj0d,,,,,, ,:, tmitoro, and shall suffer pains of death, and also 14, antlruesil • mn in cares of high treason. Under this extension of the former act any iwno e France, and s oliciting aid from the I - reoch people the existing institutions of the country, ran ! m g la w liable to the penalties set forth. The 111th Geo. !IL, L e as he had said, was designed as only ati rupees, 'e but be the 57 Oeo. 111., c. 6, the brat seiomes o f t h it t Geo. 111., which he had just read to the hone, wwsmy s perpetual. The latter act, passed in 1819. sae, o g subsequent to the union, and consequently diabta hem very eerieuely entertained whether. as rendering a special act pusedbefore the union, it could be applicable to Ireland. The most authoritelie legal • • were decidedly against the applicability of renewed I d to Ireland ; and as a matter of course a.outo . thee • - of any authority on the part of the goverim -nt total:Wet offences committed in that country to the pi-visions of the act. The law, therefore, might be fairly 'Awed as being,(' point of fact, different in the two ooti„t„ In peeks d principle, however, it was quite clear that no d,fr sr ought to exist. (Hear, hear.) The law u, on this selgog ought n oat manifestly to be equally applies' le to ..11 f the realm. In Ireland, howcror, tics •; ,„ D r" a pplicable *to treason was the 25 Edw. Ili., i.• which he had already referred. He believed he might •ay that Ittllati had dented no practical benefit from the es caj aj oh he het stated. On the contrary, he was of opinion that the hatch measures to which Ireland had been from t o ti me . 0. jetted might have been spared her, hid thi more etfectul provisions of the treason statutes of Georg. If I . b een cable to her as well as to the rest of the ti-aim. (Hest , hear.) What wu the consequence of tai.-t the juncture ? Why this that when the goy oment of be. land, directing its attention to the dang row, „nonage spokes by agitators, and to the dangerous off. ms ot that begins upon the excitable persons addressed, t. il to the law of Ireland for a remedy, it found the powers or at law inado La r t e e t t o o t th e e o re repression of the evil. The oils ppti ci b, h IP i n 'r ce of which the disturber% M . a "" nth,. - wail a sedition law, under which the °fiend, r. A:g er :G - 8: 4 at liberty to put in bail, a circumstance placing delay in tilts way of their trial, and giving them the opixir unity. if they chose to incur the additional risk, of see kihg. is the em. throw of the institutions under which they It.. 4, to relies* themselves from any trial at all—thus colic. ni g their any crime into a mode of livening its consequeo.c.o. As to the mode of dealing with the case, it hod been suggidted th a t t h e simple course would be to pan an act, ens iid.ng the Ist ate. ties of the act 36 Oeo. 111., c. 7, made a perpetual let by 57 George iii. c. 6, to Ireland, whereby toe same law would be made to prevail in both countis. lie quite agreed that the same law should be enforced throavhont all portions of time kingdom. But there ahothi-r point fug to be considered. The range of the act woo very properly 111110. t sweeping and comprehensive • out it. penoltiel, at the same time, were, it must be admitted, of extreme severity, and, as such, altogether opposed to that mitigation or our criniad code which, from time to time of lace years, had bem effected by the legislature. (Hear, he_r.) Titers had rightly been a great change in public opinion n the sat* of the offences which should meet with capital punishment, and the government was perfectly ready, in the Arent smatter, to meet, as nearly as possible, public opinion. fts did not propose, therefore, to extend the act is it stood le Ireland, nor to continue it as it stood to England. He did not desire to perpetuate or to enact any statutory proshim at variance with the progress of late years in crininallegis. lotion. (Hear, hear.) At the same ton , ho nad no item Lion of repealing that part of the statute o loch indicted the penalty of death for the offence of compassiog or denting the death or imprisonment of the sovei sign-- I hear, bar) -though, even were they to repeal it, he bell. cad the ord. nary treason law would visit such a crime will death. He proposed to repeal all the other portion. ot the *Win le fticting the punishment ot death for the offeams reset therein, and he then proposed to re-enact tile merino is other respects—for Ireland as well as for the rest of Me kingdom-substituting, however, for the offence of Willa that of nigh treason, and for the pain of deo+, the pen& ment of transportation for life or, at the discnti uof the judge, for a term of years, not less ;hen seven. This sou the sub stance of the propo sed manure-(hear, heal-but there en another material point to which he must advert. The pro visions touching the devising or imagining the deposition of the sovereign, or the levying war wiliest hi r, &c., would meet mach of the public offence which he was now deem. shop; to the house, but it would not meet all the evil. It soak have been observed that, in expressing the mode of such con. peeling or devising, the ac t had onl y prohibited the publishing a declaration in writing, or by men act. Now it would he an overt act in a party to so to a foreign country and invite foreign aid against his own sovereign or the institutions of his own country,bot a penm on a platform in Dublin or elsewhere, however he might ad. vocate the theory of such a change, provided he did nape forth a declaration in writing, might be exempt from the penalties set forth under the act. He felt it right that CO reviewing this act, in mitigating its severity, and applying it to the whole kingdom, no loophole should be lea at CUhs these gentlemen-who, while instigating others to died. fection and its penalties, were extremely careful of their on safety-should by simply omitting themselves to print de. • clarations which were regularly gathered from their mouths, and printed in the newspapers, avoid the chastisement n which they so unscrupulously sought to involve the crowd[ who listened to them. lie therefore proposed to estend ike penalties under the act to all such person. as should "In open unadvised speaking, compass, or imagine, or promote the said designs." (Hear, hear.) This wan the outstance of the bill which he now proposed to lay on the table of the house-a bill which had the entire saiietion of his noble friend, the Lord Lieutenant ; and without the provisions of which, that nobleman, than whom no mail %ay more ear• nutty devoted to the principles of constitutional liberty , bad expreosed his entire inability to administer the affairs 'of the country in a constitutional manner. With the aid of the measure, however, his noble friend had expreased himself re perfectly confident in the expectation of beitig able to moire tam peace anal order, and to make those quail before their country's laws, who new wholly set them at nought. There were other measures, which would be necessary accompeed mesas to the 'present bill, mea.sures to meet the appeal now made to the disaffected to arm, but he wou ld not mislup these measures with that before the home, and which be now begged permission to introduce. (Hear, hear.) Mr. J. O'CONNELL felt bound to oppose the introdeo . tion of this bill. He opposed it from no sympathy with the criminal agitation which now disturbad bis unhappy omen, and with the persons who so unscrupulously promoted tbst agitation, but from the sincere conviction that while the laws at present in existence were perfectly adequate to tke suppression of the evil contemplated, the introduction of WI measure would create the very highest discontent smal cleans hitherto well-disposed and peaceable. Mr. hUME quite approved of the mitigation of the fee visions of this act, and of its extension, in its amended fog, to Ireland ; but he should decidedly protest against the ur trcaduction of the clause, which, as he undersuotd it, wait to gag the free discussion of political subjects. Lord J. RUSSELL explained that the provision to wind the hon. gentleman objected, applied not to the free expres sion of public opinion, but to speeches directed against the person or crown of the sovereign. Mr. HUME said he had no desire to impede the gown* meat in it. efforts to suppress unlawful agitation; but St must protest against any gagging clause, such as he nadir. stood that now proposed to be. Su pp ose he were to hopper+ to say at some public meeting that he preferred a republic (oh, oh.) Well, he would defer any observations on the provision till it came duly before them. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that, if he stood alone, he would give his vote against this measure. He seer surprised to hear the right hon. baronet propose on* a bill as he had laid on the ;table at the present Jud aad stine He should take example by what had happened abroa, the concessions which had been made abroad. (Hear, hurl One of the first of those concessions was entire litierty cf thr press; and yet here was the right hon. baronet raking up o statute of Edward 111. to effect reetnetions ot the press alni, of speech In this country. He asked w ould the House a! C OM MOI I B egree to such an infraction of the constituties (Hear, hear.) He warned the government that the br i ll would be ineffectual as their Coercion Bill had been. Ile had then told them to try a special commission they hoi tried it ; and had found i t amply eutficient for the vindication of the law. But he supposed that the was ice of the remedial measures which the government lad promised. (Hear, hear.) It was a contradiction of all the former seta and professions of the noble lord at the head of the government. Instead of proposing new laws for sedition, the government should attend to the claims imd &offerings,' the people . It was Junius who had said that agitation the hue and cry which foretold the change that was coming' If this bill passed, open agitatiun would be tran sformed into secret conspiracy, and matters would be in a worst poti than ever. As to invasion from a foreign country, he al.', no fear of that ; and if it di d come, he should be one 01 the first to oppose it; but he believed it to be a mere cri: got up to support coercive laws. He asked e beret members who had been sent to that house by mg people whether they would support one of the tyrannical laws that had ever di:graced the .ata! book ? The principle upon which the government t_ log was, in fact, one of coercion both for England and IT; land ; and he trusted that the Irish members, at least,vet not content themselves with giving a silent vote in opposil."a to it. Let the Irish people have equal laws, and then they would not fear a few uncomfortable men, who were ta n fortable from negligence, from idleness, and from !ant . 7 industry. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord might ho? strong government if he rested on the people, Matted:. raking up old and obsolete statutes for their coercion: pi had told the people often that they had if properly exercised, than any people in Europe; b pnvileges were freedom of the press and of speech., and these were taken away the priv il eges runeswould i f.; at once. (Hear, hear.) At a time when 075., tottering, and sceptres crashing around us, it was ra netrr: • series decent. to hear the British government proposing • l ag is laws. Great stress had been laid on articles appear one certain newspipers, but had bon. memhers looked ov er hies of the Morning Chronicle during the aeitas wn _see greater pn ot _ ReMrm Bill ? They might there see how Col. Materone, instructions in sliest firing, and the best modes of soldiers in cities. T the nob:e lord and h wonderful resemble present moment. I courtesy, first rea the present occasion to the government I Nit. R. M• FOX restore the PrnePeri for that purpose. join with him •n a treason or sedition shell and Meagher the landlords of I harangues entirely in one month be would come forwa their distress, and must also extend tt tires. It they won house the much in. tranquillity would Mr. GRATTAN loyalty of the Irish that loyalty, but ft vernment, and the been established in had been misled made in filling e troops. Ile shoe for alarm, except I he nut seen an pike-maker to the similar in Lime hind the chair for pikes, turne , it was reviving tem. (Hear, Ilea bills had (Ailed. at jug Ireland. Tilt attuy, a system w could not maintai which should gen, who bad said that became the prey the case in fret* the frieze-coated ing, but th y had only republican north, while t directly opposit were neither rep remember the tr , Preach revolutic mending amelim dies fee the prey Lord D. STU I for the batter psi he thought the vernraent would people. (Hear, the observatim land, and Je . ..1 one of dame changes, but h not long be con nor would they seated by the si and important see such bolot wanted was a I they believed i lion. In lrele a right to dem that some urea+ necessary, fur i abroad througl to suppress It measures of co company them the people, an he had expres, he had voted would lose no sures. That been misplace ception of a I complicated tl snake it work , lathe oth r lin ward. That It dress, could n representatim and many otl redressing wl lance and sea their loyalty depended on Montrose in should oppos with freedom one of the an and it could could assure would regari picion. In s that the ma be should ret second readii Mr. THEY its nature sh the governor fail, and the measure tha The object for offences sow:dent. atitutional c the Attorne of transpor in the mom he might TV against hit say Ireland —(a Liu& governmen lie might comraissior make piki the Freon depended ixformatio passed in c which ha cares, he 11 the case r believe wt tioned his moment • 1,000,000 necewaric from the made for when sufl in Engla doubted aides. If Roman c power of m that man a Ca of tion. Le which Ir most thre lotion of land. 1 jibing ; to a nam had the Me woul the right were the ing tram be tried would I goner co the man former (Hear, I it affect now we would a He hop determi of mild tribune followe, who we this me terrupt ple wa, and wli flghtio he bell, would of the more h and it them speech Mr. this hi in con haying u r are r m that ol that tl might which punish land, 2 TTIE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 8, 1848 ------------------atedthatthehon.gentkman must **artiste would not be prevented, and it was taking them by Lord J. RUSSELL would abstain from all allusion IMPERIAL PARLIAMENI. confaniEseAtEtoapuintting the question. surprise to prevent them now at the eleventh hour. It w►+ hon. membe h r for N•ot.tioeughumeon'sfinsopewechh.thane hdisroosto Mr. DRUMMOND wished to know in what way the not their intention to come to the door of the Bowie of Com- out of that owe, and . fa • HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAY, APPAL 7. hon. gentleman meant top ring the different subjecta con- mo_ , but to pass over Westminster Bridge. All the those observations which the honourable member h - his oast at 6 o'clock. %tined in the petition before the house. plicoeriolhemonlyh4eclarto influence that he could exert would be employed to tared in his plane there. lie now informed the how la. rr (ult./NOR said he had given hi wee on k trict7or:e flat t e ndooetnitheofinthtenetihonolf th..eßortoetheaseiongotorcomtvnia e l d d t 7, to the ir"thee• _,.. enovro•aed they would not house would find, on referring to the printed ec I an intention was therein announced, ai I 1' it ' 1 . f' ' 1 .1 1 . i J i 1... 1 i . i i ' l' . ' 1 1 , i. ! 1 1 1 I [l . , 'i 1 i 1 1 . , '.• 1 .. i i 1