The Express. — London, England, 1853-07-13 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TOUDAY, J1:1.2 12. The Sraa&r took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lards' amendments to the following bills were consi dered and agreed to, via.: Electric Telegraph Company of Ireland Bill; South Eastern Itadiray (Reading Extension. &c.) WWI % Warrington and Altrincham Railway (Snide port) Bill. l'rowe's Disabilities Removal Bill was read a third time, sad passed. The Banbridge, Dublin, Newry, and Belfast Junction Railway Bill, and the West Port Port and Ilarbour Bill were einsblered, and ordered to be read a third time. Archbishop of Canterbury's Estate Bill, and Pemberton Leigh's Estate Bill, were read a ►econd time, and ordered to be ccanmitte.d. PUBLIC BUSINESS. MILITIA ESTIMATES. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LOItI)S.—Tt:ESDAT, JILT 12. The Loan CILANCILLOI took his seat at 6 o'clock. COMBINATION OF WORKMEN'S BILL. Lord CAMPBELL said u be was about leaving on cir cuit, he wished to say, with reference to this bill, which had come up from the other house, that the law as it now stud was excellent and ought not to be altered. It did equal justice to the employers and the employed, and if their lordships passed the bill which had been sent up to them, they would do that which would be ezticniel) - miachievons. AII.RESTMENT OF WAGES FOR DEBT. Lord Elitist:GUAM wished to state, in reply to the nu merous ap:oications which he had received on the subj,-cr, that it wes not his intention to press for the passing of . a bill during the present session of parliament on this et, but he Wished to have the quession lettered to a committee which had been appointed tar assimilating the mercantile law of the United Kingdom. RUSSIA AND TURKEY. Lord LYNDHURST begged to put a question to his noble friend the Secretary tor Foreign Alf-..rs with re gard to a document issued from Peterhead, which was re ferred to the other night. He understood the document was originally written in the Russian language, and that it bad been translated into the French. He also understood that the translation had deviated considerably from the ori ginal I; lilt respect to some important epithets. Ile wished to know from his noble friend whether he had a copy of the original document in the Russian language; and, if so, whether he would have any objection to lay it on the table of the house. (A laugh.) Ile wished to call the attention of his noble friend to some expressions which he (Lord Lyndhurst) had made use of as to the circular, signed by Count Nesselrode, and which had been made the subject of criticism. Ile begged to state —and he was quite state that his noble friend would bear him out—that the answer to that document by the Minis ter of Foreign Affairs of France had completely borne out his argument, and the conclusions which he had come to. Ile begged further to state that se far as related to the document from .St. Petershnrgh—the circular document published yesterday—that he might leave it safely without any comment, hut he would take leave to call his noble friend's attention to a particular passage in it. lie under stood according to his interpretation of that passage that the court of liusiis hail taken upon itself to state that until the Ottoman l'orte had satisfied the court of Russia with respect to the demands made) against it, and until Prance and this country had withdrawn their fleets from the Turkish waters, they would not abandon the possession of the D inubian principalities. Ile understood that a noble Iced in another place had stated that he did not put that interpretation on the document. Now, he had read that documer.t with some attention, and he could not think it passible that any other interpretation could be put upon it. He wished to ask his noble friend whether he concurred with him in the interpretation and meaning of the passage he referred to ? The Earl of CLARENDON said that in reply to the first question of his noble friend, ho believed there was some difference between the Russian document issued for " home eonsump'ion"—for the use of the Russian people—and the nans'ation that was sent abroad. He believed it bad r.firence more especially to the word perfidious" applied to the violation of the Sultan's word. There was a Russian original, he believed, in the Foreign dike, and if it would be any satisfaction to his noble and learned fined to peruse that document, he saw no objection to lay it on the table. (Hear, hear.) Ile entirely agreed with his noble and learned friend as to the great ability and skill of the note which the French government had Woad, in an swer to the first circular of Count Nesszlrode. With res pect to the third question of his noble and learned friend, be believed that when his noble hired answered the ques tion pat to him in the House of Commons yesterday, be bad not bad an opportunity of reading the note. He did not entirely take the same view which his noble and learned friend appeared to take of what was stated as to that note, but he certainly could have no hesitation in saying that the government did not consider that the presence of the British and French fleets in the Bay of Besika was at all similar, or could is any way be compared to the occupation of the Danubian Principalities. (Loud cheers.) And cer tainly no condition with respect to the departure of the one, car the evacuation of the other, would be made. (Renewed absera.) Lord LYNDHURST said that the expression be made lese of in interpreting that particular passage, or rather the o:peados itself, amounted to this :—" As soon as the Ottoman Porte does what he requires, and as non as the English aad French fleets quit the Turkish waters, then he will withdrew from the principalities." He did not abso lutely say, " not sooner," but it implied " not sooner." The Earl of CLARENDON thought the answer which he had given to his noble and learned friend exactly met that view, namely, that her Majesty's government would make no condition of that sort. (Hear, bear.) Earl FITZ WILLIAM begged to observe that the ex pression was a great deal stronger than his noble and learned friend bad stated it ; the expression was not, " from the Turkish waters," but " from within sight of the Turkish capital," which he apprehended was a very differeat expression from that of "Turkish waters." The "Turkish waters" might mean what we called the /Evan Sea. " From within sight of the Turkish capital," might mean the Sea of Marmara. (Hear, hear.) The English and French governments also were charted with having sent their fleets into the Sultan's dominions. Every thing now passing in the east of Europe must cause extreme anxiety, and he trusted, therefore, that his noble friend would forgive him if he put a question to him on a subject which had lately been mentioned in the public prints. He was desirous of knowing whether the government had received any information on that subject, set to gratify idle personal cariosity, but as a matter of gnat public importance: he alluded to the rumoured passage of the Austrian troops into the Turkish province of Boenia. He was desirous of knowing whether the government had received any information confirmatory of, or denying, that statement? Lord LYNDHURST wished, before his noble friend an swered that question, to apologise for not being strong enough in the particular passage to which he had referred, bat his noble friend had fallen into the same error, and bad fallen short, for the words were, "As soon as the British and French fiesta shall remove from within sight of the city of Constantinople, we will retire." The Earl of CLARENDON said that both his noble friends had Used expressions sufficiently strong, but as they had both quoted from a statement manifestly incorrect, it was of little importance bow strong either of their assertions were with respect to it. The English and French fleets were not within sight of Constantinople—(hear, hear)—and although it might be asserted in the Russian note, there WY certainly no reason for taking precautions on that sub ject. With respect to the question which his noble friend bad put to him, if he had been in the house yesterday when the same question was asked, he would have heard the only information which he was able to give to him. He believed the report had arisen as many others had (which he had stated an a previous ocession), from the electric telegraph, which now transacted, not very correctly, a great portion of the diplomatic business of Europe. (A laugh.) He had no reason to believe that the Austrian troops had crossed the Turkish frontier, but the contrary. His latest date frem the English minister was the 7th inst., and no mention was made of it. He bad also communicated with the Austrian minister at this court, who entirely disbelieved the report. He had stated that he thought it might have arisen from some of the Austrian Imps having been sent to their own fortress of Peter warden, which was about 80 miles from the territory of Turkey. Mr. S. HERBERT (Secretary at War) moved that a 'elect committee be appointed to prepare estimates of the charge of the disembodied militia of Great Britain and Ire land, for the year ending the 31st of March, nit, to con alit of Mr. Secretary at War, Viscount Palmerston, Mr Judge Advocate, Mr. Walpole, Mr. Ellice, Mr. Vernon Smith, Major Beresford, Mr. Wilson, Colonel Maule, Colo nel Lindeiy, Mr. Wilson Patten, and all Cu:uncle of Militia. Agreed to. MERCHANT SMITING BILL. The committee on this bill was then resumed. A disencsivn took place on the 29th clause, which was agreed to on a division by 142 to 3d. Clauses to 37, inclusive, were agreed to without die. euvkion. The Chairman then reported progress, and the house adjourns d. The Lease resumed its sitting at 6 o'clock. INDIAN RAILWAYS. Sir 11. 3IADDOCK moved fur copies or extracts of any correspondence received by the last mail from the Go vernor-General in council in India, relative to railway un dertakings in that country. Agreed to. SUNDAY LABOUR IN THE POST-OFFICE. Mr. PACKE, in reference to the commi•siuo appointed to inquire into Sunday labour at the Post-office, gave notice that on a future day he should ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether tho Postmaster- General bad any intention of adopting the resolutions contained in that report ? Upon the motion of an HON. MESMER the house was then counted ; more than 40 members being present, pro ceedings were resumed. THE MALT DUTIES. Mr. E. BALL then moved for a committee of the whole house, fur the purpose of considering the duties on malt, with a view of making such alteration in those duties that the farmer may be exempt from the malt duty on such quantity of malt as he may require fur his own use, made from barley of his own growth. Sir J. SHELLEY did not rise for the purpose of op posing this motion, for upon its merits he was favourable to it ; but even if this Were not so, he should not regret to see it carried, as a lesson to the government, who took no care about a house being made upon Tuesdays. (At this time the Treasury bench was perfectly empty, and there were but three hon. gentlemen upon the benches behind It. The Opposition side of the house was very fairly attended.) Sir J. Shelley was just concluding his obverts tions, and a call for a division was being made, when The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entered. Casting a hasty, and somewhat disconcerted look, whichwas the signal for &general titter, around him, the right bon. peasants hurnedlehis place. He then said that he was not rem then etbAge m o . plei rp a: n pe a r i e f t r t m o e b r e d e ay t e ti , n w il l i i n e : be ilia punebeally, the first half hour or more of the Bitting led gene over in interpellatione • now, however, I that be was somewhat behind time , the b usinessi upon the piper was arrived at within a few minutes. The hon. Men& had made a motion of great importance; but Maw made it without stating any arguments or reasons Yale step, he did not feel bound to follow him at any nil t length. He hoped the hon. member would not that in so doing be admitted the force of ble Olt. Ball's) media. Had the honourable gen anima stated his segfemests, he (the Chancellor eft She Embegser) Mali have followed them, and .ga i,a, ~ rimed the series/ maisquenees which necessarily Medd ipmemment from acceding to them. lie We* state for the information of the km gem be saw his motion upon the Male gl um M 61.1111, et all clear whether he (Mr. Den to Shim a spoil privilege for farmers, as 11111111111111116 IR whether he intended that they should be al- Weed to make use of malt, exempt from duty only so far Si seised farming purposes. Certainly, reason would bed bun (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) at once to tho leneinsion, that this latter supposition was the true one. But obadesr he leaked.* ea sessemble construction or not—not Imilehat he felt bessits sweet that the hoe. gentleman ENO to set a fib) —be thought then were wild reasons for cues met be At the same time, he wbeitted that mesh Wen be raid in favour of allowing emit be the peeress el bleeding stock to be free from duty. The aptness pima it mere trate conclusive, but yet it was a matter wet wholly Mereneeft Of discussion. Looking Only to who mem the was slammed in it, the hon. member amid base time baiter had he catered fully into the matter, sad be might Ibis have explained the terms of his reposition. TM mottos said nothing at all of malt for the of robing stock ; it merely said " such malt as be ( bower) may require for his own use." Ms own use would apply as well to the brewing of beer as the raising of stock. He was rare that his hon. friend (Sir J. Shelley), who was expressing his concurrence in this motion with some warmth when he entered the house, could not mean to say that ; he (Sir J. Shelley) could not mean to assert that one class should be privileged in its consumption of malt any more than another class. Why should the farmer be allowed to snake beer or spirits tree from duty when all other persons could not do so ? be What would the effect of giving such a privilege 1 The house would call into existence etch au amount of tempta tion that, unless hon. members supposed that all farmers were men, not of ordinary, but of supereminent principle, aaavarould establish • system of fraud so ob ble that it weld demoralise a large of people, mad spat the door to wholesale pleeder. But for the be would assume that it was tOw paepases of Oak sleek that the duty was proposed semell&L Ile mug again regret that the hon. gen tling) gile Boll) bed set made some few remarks in intro bake maim to e xplai n what his meaning was. As MOM Meet be (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was in a Sold= of much difficulty. (Much laughter, from the °p relim. evidently caused by this last remark being quite =to the state of the ministerial benches, which con very thinly occupied.) He would therefore proceed le mane upon the ground that it was only so far ✓e Maw stock was mmenued that the duty was to be leben off. The quietism them arose whether mat mid be 'Meade* load be raising cattle with peeler profit to the beam them he could obtain :by the empleymest of other bed. lives about the year 1846 an hon. member intestinal • bill for the purpose o a f= ✓etting fusses to me malt for the purpose of stock. In SOON Si this inquiries were instituted at Glasgow, mike tb eapselsacedesse of Dr. Playfair and two other ecientille mw ef esalseses. Two cows and two bullocks were operated upon under circumstances precisely similar, except that ens pair were fed with barley and the other with malt exclusively. The result was that the two which were fed upon the latter did not by say means thrive like the former pair. So much, then, for the experiment of these gentlemen. But remora showed to him what experiment proved. They mated in their evi dence before the committee of the House of Lords, which eat in 1846, that upon an examination of the constituent elements of barley and malt respectively, it appeared that • mg amittlarable quantity of substances of a nutritious character, which entered into the constitution of barley dis appeared from it omits conversion into malt. The only thing fa which malt had the advantage was, that it was easy of digestion. Now, if hon. members opposite were about to make an entire revolution in the feeding of cattle, by substituting malt for barley, then that would be some argument in the case for taking off these duties. But when the fact was that malt entered into the food of cattle only in a very small quantity, then the argument fell to the ground. The house could not repeal taxes upon mere trifling injections. If that were done, then it would be impossible to raise a revenue. Indeed, the house had always refused to interfere with large branches of taxation except upon conclusive grounds. Was this, then, a small and trifling objection ? If it were admitted that salt only entered in a small degree into the food of cattle, then this question must be upon its face answered affirmatively; if, however, this fact were denied, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had only to refer hon. members to the report of the committee of the Lords—a committee in every way favourable to the farmer—to show that this denial was with out foundation. The right hon. gentleman then referred to the report of the Scientific Commission of 1816, at the head which was Dr. Lyon Playfair, which investigated the ques tion of the value of malt as a fattening stock for cattle, end the result of their elaborate experiments and analysis was, that barley was superior to malt as a stock for feeding cattle. The benefit which the proposal of the hon. gentle man would confer on the farmers was therefore minute and matmeted. Now what would be the mischief on the other band if it were agreed to ? The house had repeatedly de dared that it would not interfere with the great and leading branches of public revenue, or permit them to be undermined. He did not believe that the object of the hon. gentleman was to interfere with the public re venue, but his proposition, if carried, would have the effect of undermining a vital and important branch of revenue. (Hear, bear.) The hon. gentleman would 'probably arsest to a provision fur preventing barley from being steeped where the excise officers suspected it might be converted into malt for fraudulent purposes. But even this would require great vigilance on the part of the revenue offices,, for it would be necessary to have a general supervision en the part of the excise. But far greater supervision would be required if permission were given not only to steep barley, but to make malt for the purpose of con vertieg it late stock. In fact, unless they entirely abasdesed the revenue to fraudulent persons, they mud any the excise regulations into every farmstead in the misery, and even then they could not prevent malt from being made for fraudulent p This /night not be the object of the bon. gentleman= would he the infallible result of his motion, and en the ' part of the revenue he could not consent to the probable, nay, almost the certain, ahandonnient of between 1,000,0001. and 5,000,0001. He must, therefore, resist a motion which at best would only give a partial and minute relief to the farmer. (Hear, hear.) It might be said, " Well, thee, will you keep the tax on malt for ever ?" ile would rely my that he did not think there was much chaste that an y penes who this heard him would as the duty UNITED GUARANTEE AND LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY BILL. Oa the motion for the second reading of this bill, Lord REDESDALE moved that the bill should be read a second time that day three months, which was agreed to vrithoot a division. The British Electric Telegraph Company Bill was read amend time. TM Copyholds Bill !tamed through committee. TM Metropolitan Building Aet Further Amendment Bill was read amend time. Juvianue MENDICANCY (No. 2) BILL. This billimmed through committee. The Couvieted Prisoners Itelaaval and Confinement Bill paned through committee. The Public Home (Scotland) Bill, sad the Pimlico Im. movement Bill, were read a second time. BANKRUPTCY (SCOTLAND) BILL, On the order of the day for the second reading of this The LORD CHANCELLOR said he proposed to take the discussion on the third reading. After a few words from Lord Bitoconaw, Th- hill was ri ad a second time. SUITORA' FUlallF.lt RELIEF BILL. TLe report of the ainvidlim.ut ou this bill was brought up sad agreed to. SAVINGS BANKS ANNUITY BILL. This boll was read a third time and paned. Their lordships Him atoorned twenty-An minutes to olibt o'clook. THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 13, 1853. If, indeed, they could levy the duty on beer instead of malt, he admitted that much of the difficulty would be removed, aad that a great benefit would be conferred on the egricultur il interest. (Hear, hear.) But he did not understand that the bon. gentleman had any plan of that kind. How could they levy the tea on breweries for the manufacture of beer to be sold to the public, without also taxing the b. er which was made in private houses. lie be lieved it was the feeliag of this difficulty which led the go vernment of 1830 to abandon the duty on beer and retain 1 the duty on malt. lie was ready to admit that there were 1 objections to dr. cotitinuance of the malt tax, and he should be:extremely glad if the bon. gentleman would show him the way of getting rid of the tax, or evi n modifying it, without entailing a large arid serious loss upon the revenue. He believed that the proposition of the hon. gentleman would lead to fraud and demoralisation, and wuuld entail eoer mons loss on the revenue, without conferring shy propor tionate good ' • and on these grounds be tout ask the house to unite with him in resisting the motion. (Hear, hear.) The house divided — For the motion G9 Against The announcement of the numbers was received with cheers by the ministerialiits, the tactics of the opposition evidently being to press to a division, in anticipation of a successful result, which the apparent strength of their benches would seem to justify. MEDICAL POOR RELIEF. Mr. MILES then rose to call the attention of the house 'to the system of po r law medical relief at present existing in England and Wales, with a view to its revision ; also, to the large number of persons who annually become charge ' able to the poor rates from no medical relief being afforded to them in their sickness, unless they become paupers. This subject had been brought before the !louse of Com mons on former occasions, and several committees had ac knowledged that some remedy was necessary to supply the deficiency in the present system of mayhem relief for the ' pour. Ile had only to state that between three and for 1 thousand medical men had the care and medical superin tendence of 835,000 persons to prove that the medical relief must be insufficient. The present system was expensive without being elfizient. He believed that he might place the extra diet given to the inmates of workhouses to the account of medical relief. They should have in the Poor. law Board a medical officer, with power to send competent' persons to investigate any complaints on the score of medt cal treatment, and to send medical men on tours of pert. odical medical inspection. That was the view taken by the late Mr. C. Buller in 1848, a short time before his lamented death. The house would bear him out in the assertion that medical officers were very inadequately paid, and that without private practice it would be impossible for them to live. In serious cases he feared the attendance became a question of huma nity or prudence; and it was not surprising that the poor often suffered. He would suggest that the boards of guar dians should find the drugs ; and he believed that so bene ficial would be the result of that arrangement, that it would lead to a diminution of the rates. In cases of medical relief, he wished to include the second poor in the advantages offered. Looking at the ge amount of wages, it was impossible that the labouring man could find proper medical relief for himself and his family. In connexion with that question, it was important to con sider what were the average wages of the labouring popu lation. About a year ago Mr. Henry Mayhew set down the numbers of the labouring population at 4,000,000, and their ge earnings at 10s. per week. The cost of food, clothing, and firing for man and child he estimated at 20. fiel. a head. He further calculated that there were SI persons per family, making 9s. 9d. for the whole, to which was added Is. for rent, making a total of 10s. 9d. He (Mr. Miles) had looked at this calculation over and over again, and the more he 'reflected on the subject, the deeper was his conviction that it was impossible for the labouring man to provide medical relief for his wife and children. (Hear, hear.) Last year the Registrar-Oeneral called the attention of the r üblie to the fact of the great mortality of poor children, particularly in large towns. That officer attributed the evil to the neglect of children by their parents ; but he (Mr. Miles) believed that the poor man had as much regard for the health of hie child as the rich one, and that the effect stated was owing to an inability to provide medicine. (Hear, hear.) The profession already contributed to the relief of the poor more than any other class of society ; and yet an immense proportion of children died under the age of five years. lle might be told by political economists that what be proposed would destroy the 'independence of the labourer, and :injure friendly societies. (Hear, hear. He did not apprehendtany such result. (Hear, hear. The objects contemplated by friendly societies were now very inadequately fulfilled. Ho knew it was impus aible that any measure which might be brought in could pass during the present session ; but his object was to im press on his right hon. friend the evils of the existing eye tem, in order that he might provide a remedy with as little delay as possible. To show the house the extent of the evil, he would conclude by introducing some returns which bad been obtained by a medical friend of his from different poor law unions. From these it appeared that the per centage of persons who were made paupers by sickness was, in the Tewkesbury Union, 62t per cent. ; in the Salford Union, adults, 67 per cent., children 43 per cent,. • in the Plymouth Union 69 per cent. • in the Liverpool Union 80 per cent. ; while in Derby, where there was excellent medical provision for the poor, the population was 36 per cent. He trusted that his motion would receive due consideration from the govern ment. Mr. 13AINES said there was no subject of more im portance than that which had just been brought under the consideration of the house. An Hox. Mamma having here moved that the house be counted, strangers withdrew; but it was found that there were 40 members present. at all times be ready to receive any suggestion for the im nrovement of the medical system of the Poor Law Board. Sir T. TROLLOPE said it would be superfluous in him to follow his honourable friend in all his points, but he felt bound to confirm the opinion of the right hon. gentle man, the President of the Poor Law Board, that the pre sent medical relief of the poor was not only in a satisfactory date, but in a progressively improving state. He trusted this motion would be withdrawn. (Rear, hear.) Mr. WODEROU SE expressed his entire concurrence in everything that had fallen from his bon. friend the member for Somersetshire, and he only regretted that this question was nct brought forward at an earlier period of the session. Mr. BARROW objected to do anything which could de stroy or endanger that independent spirit which actuated the poor man, when seeking for medical relief. After ► few words from Mr. P. MILLS by way of reply, the motion was withdrawn. ' Mr. BAINES wu found on his legs, observing that be would now proceed to give an account of the manner in which medical relief had been administered under the new law, and that he should appeal to the house whether many of the im putations thrown out by the hon. member for East Somerset were not altogether groundless, and whether, in fact, there had ever been a time when the medical relief of the poor of this country had been so anxiously cared for by the anew-law authorities and the p ublic at large. lie was far lieu saying that further improvements might not be elected, and if any were suggested whisk he could not him- Ulf carry out, he should not hesitate to apply to the legisla ture for increased power'. Before the passing of the Poor Law Amendment Act in 1834, there was no regular system 0/ medical relief. In some places, indeed, there was a parish doctor, but he was appointed under asystem of jobbing and favouritism , and acted without any effectual responsi bility, and under such a system there was of coarse very great neglect. A very different plan, however, was introduced la the passiog of the new act ; and whatever might be said •to *misting deficiencies, he was glad to be. able to state. I oaths authority of Mr. Guthrie, who was examined betas the mewasittee, in 1844, that the amount of medical relief glut to the poor since 1834, was "infinitely greater." wok wes Mr. Outhrie's expression— than the amount , giv s z ia m i leior to that period. In 1838 a committee was that house to consider the subyct of medical relief to the poor. A great deal of evidence was taken, and the emnatittee finished their labours by making two specific suggestions, both of which were immediately acted upon by his (Mr. Baines's) predecessors, the fi rst being that the system of tender—tender that was by medical men, of the terms on which they would supply medical reilef--should be abolished ; the second, that the districts within which medical officers acted should be abridged. Author committee of that house, presided ever by Lord Ashley, was appointed in 1844. Very conflicting evidence MU given, and the committee broke up without making : I recommendation ; but although the committee could 111147 upon any specific recommendation, no doubt the the inquiry was to impress on the Poor-raw Com shelswen, and on those who, like himself, succeeded them, the necessity of directing at tention to the subject. Since that time, he undertook to say, on every point on which the system was susceptible of improvement, improvement had in fact been effected. He would call the attention of the how* to a few figures showing the expenditure for medical relief since the passing of the Poor-law Amendment Act. In the year 1838 the cost of medical relief to the poor was 136,0001. ; in 1844, 166,0001. ; in the last year, 212,0501. There had, therefore, been a very great increase of expen diture under this heid since 1844 • and, though in his opi nion the expenditure should go further, he thought that from what he had just stated the house might infer that there had already been a disposition on the part of boards of guardians and poor law authorities to be more liberal than they had been with regard to medical relief. Then, again, with regard to extra fees, he towed that while the sum paid under that head in 1840 was 6,4991., in 1862 it was 30,7271. The number of medical officers too, was, in 1838, 2,091; and, in 1862, 3,238. gelagleints had been made with regard to the high quallisellem required. Ia his opinion the fitness of • see died Ewa to attend the poor should be 'coal to that of one who bad to attend any other class. (Hear, hear.) • double qualification was required—a medal and a surgical qualification, and that arrangement bad, he believed, worked exceedingly well. As regarded the respon sibility of medical officers that was a poiat ea which the system that prevailed before 1834 COW ploteli failed. There was, in fact, no responsibility en ' slept to the overseers. At present every medical man was responsible to the Poor-law Board for the proper discharge of his duties, and any alleged case of Dulcet, not to say ED trert was made the subject of searching inquiry. It was the prussice of the Poor-law Board to inquire into 011 eemplaints made against poor-law medics' officers, but these complaints were very few compared with the number of officers in the country. Some of the complaints were very ill-founded, but whenever there was good cause fur • complaint, the vigilance of a rival or the exertions of lene volent persons, who took an interest is looking after the welfare of the suffering poor, invariabl led to the case being brought under the notice of the Poor Law Board. lie was perfectly convinced then that if there was a just cause of complaint against the medical gran the matter was certain to find its way to the Poor Law Board ; but though the board took care to make medical Poor Low officers erosible of the responsibilities which rested upm them, the board was at the same time anxious to protect them in the fair, the proper, aad the independent exercise of their duty, and whenever • cabal was got up against any one of them the board took care:to protect, him from injury. (Hear, hear.) lie admitted that the gaieties of medical officers were not high, and yet in • great number of agri cultural unions attempts had been made to cut them down still lower, but in every case the Poor Low Board had re fused to comply with such demands. (11, sr, heir.) The result of that refusal was this, the Poor Law guardians reconsidered the subject, and upon the recom mendation of the Poor Low Board some of them had begun to treat with their medical officers in a more liberal spirit. (Hear, hear.) lie hopcd that this motiou would net be pressed to a dititias, and he repeated that he should WOODS AND FORESTS. Mr. AOLIONBY—Addreu for a return of the names of all the officers holding any permanent situation or employ ment under the two Cummiasioners of Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues of the Crown in Great Britain and Ireland, under the names of receivers, deputy surveyors, and super intendents, or such other names u the officers may bear (exclusive of the establishment in London), together with the date of tho appointment of each; the age of each whin appointed; the previous occupations of each; the qualifications each was supposed to possess ; the names of the persons by whom each was recommended ; the name of the person by whom each was appointed ; the duties with which each is entrusted ; the number of acres of land of every description over which the management of each Deputy-Surveyor extends, distinguishing in each case the extent of forest land, land otherwise occupied, and waste land ; the salary, allowances, and emoluments of each. The hon. gentleman was proceeding to enforce the necessity fer this return, when An HONOVRABLII Mauxia moved that the house be counted, and there being only 31 members present, the Speaker adjourned the house at a quarter to 9 o'clock until to-morrow (this day), at 12 o'clock. Sir A. Campbell paired in favour of Mr. V. Smith's amendment on Monday with the Earl of Euston, against. Mr. Knatchbull and Lord 11. Lennox were accidentally shut out from voting in favour of Mr. Ball's motion Ca the matt tee. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-JULY 11. GOVERNMENT OF INDIA BILL. _________ __ ___ ______ (Is Comirrrnis.)—Clause 3 (her Majesty to appoint ci the first Directors for and years) :—Amendment wpm& in p. 2, hoe 33, to leave out, at the beginning of the clams. the words " it shall be lawful for her Majesty, by aovea at umber the loyal Sign Manual," in order to insert the weeds *tam Ormet of Directors of the raid Company shall, sat: the apinhation of her Majesty, to be signified in writing har Segal Sp Manual, cotm tersigned by the FrosMait of the siClemildamers for the affairs if India,"— (Mr. Farm Owlib)—SONlA thsesolL—Question put, "That the words proposed to he loft out stand part of the clause."—l he Commit , . thided —Ayes, 199; noes, 111. AYES. Acland, Sir names troffers, Lord A'Court, Charles Honeys, Vir D. Adderky, Charles O'Brien, Patrick Akock, Thomas Osborne, Ra'ph Anderson, bir J. Otway, Arthur Bailey, Su 1. Owen, Sir John Baines, Matthew Palmer, Bowtdell Barnes. Thomas Palmerston, Viscount Base, Michael Patten, John Benbow, John Pechell, Sir 0. Deanna, Lord H. Feel, Frederick Berkeley, C. L. 0. Peel, Colonel Bettie& Sir ltd. Pellatt, Apetey liiddulph, Robert Phillimore, B. t=rilltat: Phillbsore, J. G. r Pigott, Francis Bowyer, George Pitkington, Jae. Boyle, Colonel Portman.onanby, A. Brand, Hen PW. Bright, John Prim, W. Philip Broeklehurst, J. Prime, Richard Brockman, E. Pritcharel o t un ohn Brown, William Ricardo,s Buller, Sir John Bich, Ilen Butler, Charles Roberta, floe. Byag, (keno Rummell, Lord J. Cantwell, Edw. Rumen, F. W. Caulfield, Col. Bandar., George Cay:ey, Edward Saw*, C. B. Challis, Alderman &obeli, Capt. Cheethant, John Scully, Francis Child, Smith Scully, Vinoent Clay, Sir Wm. Seymour, H. 1). Cobden, R. B. ymour, Wm. Cockburn. Wa lte r A. Ilhalto, Coffin. Walter Smith, John B. Cowper, Wm. e llen t 31, Boger J. Cranford, Edw. A. Crossley, Frank Stanley, Lord Carrie, Italkes &ephemera, R. Dalimid‘ Zed MirlingeWsa. Reelyseek Er S. Strutt, Edward gotta; John B u rs i t em t . Tanared, Henry Tnlll, Gime Trollops, e it J. E=.4,. Wre. Terme, L. V. Deans. Gaels Villiers, C. P. WWI, C. B. =a im& Walonley, Sir J. = l t Whitbread, & Wickham, H. Fero% Sim Willsimam, W. Tame. Wood 'Willcox. Brodie iliavilkaa i , G. Williams', Wm. Wilson, Junes rox %gla Winningtoo WT. ise, Arierd PreeetVese tia : Weed, C. Faller, Wright..., Wm. (Bohm. Young, Mr John Oaakell, - Jmass Death Cbseas TELLZIII. Earl r a lg= kar % Hayter, Wm. Sulgrav e, Osiders, fik O. Oewer.leWsie Graham, Sir J. Onion, lord Oreernaoha Orme. Thaws Grego" Bowl °revile, Camel GWOMMIt. lad Haggai& George Headike, George Warne, Sir J. Gernert, G. I Harco se urt, A. Colonel ussi llea= Herb" lieriserc iat ileg Hervey iJterioo , A. Heyware 1 1=4 Thema Howard, lead E. H Brateirni, R. liettOMlLsa Lem. 111. hew, kart Jaime% limes Kalb& ReWi Weft, W. a, Knoll, W. Kershaw, hates Keg, Locke Yarned Zob . A. learn. rist lahog, Ilased UMW" AM" Luigi" H. Ed Gore lareare, win lae. Wm. 812 Learn lord A. Learre, Lard H. Laws. Baia it B. B. his Wangs" Janes Ill ie r a r J. Mawr, It! b ub mi li . ailliffd JOHN Timm tirmA m t °lll4 W. =.‘lesesat Velem =„. Da M erlesvid Mostgasacra Murr Yarn ough, J. Napier, kerns Nab% Joseph John =mu Ball, Edward bAla Berle William Bee Wm lamb" Blalr, Weald Breasien. Thammi Brasile, laid Brasieb= 6 . ifram, Bask Jai* Barren, air C. Burroughs% H. Clive, Wm% Col% Henry Cc.bony, M. Ostlon. Wllliam Musk, lamlwa, le =ll Dulwo* latha, Mr Jana Ale:ander l erielr Jamas Ewa% Mr P. I=l 1 a l l; i ll Elliall, Jam Elialsy, Lard Ewe" W Miami Evart, William Farnham, Edward Ciallwey, sir W. Gladstone, Captain (lore, William Granby, Marquis Oreenall, Gill Grey, Eli George North, Colonel Grogin i e rsi ziord Fekington, Ni J. Porter, Rebid =. Thema Z2 l l. W. Hank" C. John Heed% Mire Fla Weis' li niet enikl a Te Nethent. Captain leysines. Lord Berrien A, lir w. Th H = T. Ihnelleii lL . A. p...Wir Jam ... 19eberd Lett James ilu=ie. . etest — Xlinry Hamm W. F. W Taylor. Clime Joillle. lir N. Theenssem Al& Nally, lir Fitzroy italling a sergo IWO, N. Miy ames VVl eart. IL F User. . lie Vernon, O. Clisag Vi 2 2 1 4 67 X Leak" *Dan W elait. Ails. Loakbast, W. Wahl. Jan Leerilme, Captain Warner, Us. Ames Wellesley, Lad C. iltr U. WblW,de, Jamas Vales. Whitmore, H. Wyss, Loftus =WM D. Willosikby, Sir U. Nike% illgAn nie t i n :tel e d dd rlizi it. =may Illia. Wyellem AL Cise. = Lpezz i tir O. W Torrle m eNilet T. UMW. 13 P4 I nitalsol 'am"b BOW& Thom. Newigets, Ches. Da" R. Yuma PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEES. GENERAL COMMITTEE OP EtEcnoNs.—Yester day, this committee—Sir John Trollops (chairman), Mr. Palmer, Mr. Sotheron, and another hen. member—met, and appointed the following members to Serve on the elec tion committee for Clitheroe :—Mr. Cl. A. Hamilton (chair man), Sir T. Herbert, Bar J. Duke, Mr. Butt, and Mr. S. Laing. The member petitioned against is Mr. Aspinall. The Chairman inquired what other election petitions there were this session, and what probability there was of their being proeseuted.—Mr. Coppock said there was • petition against the return of Mr. Bsgshawe, for Harwich, but he did not think it would ge on. There was a petition against the return of Mr. Whalley, for Peterborough, and another against Captain Vernon, for Chatham, and these certainly would go on. He had received instructions for other peti tions (Sligo, Liverpool, Durham, &c.), but they had not yet been presented. The formalities of the House of Com mons required such long notice in three matters, that he was afraid the petition not yet presented could not be tried this session.—The Chairman observed that, in these days of telegraphs and railways, this ought not tobe ; and he re gretted to say that this delay must be unavoidably ex tended, as he and Sir F. Baring had to send in their resig nations as members of that committee, and no new mem bers could serve in their place until Monday next, and it would be difficult to get members to serve on election com mittees in August. It isstated that, in the case o'Clitheroe, the inquiry will involve a scrutiny likely to last many days. DEVON AND DOISZT RAILWAY.—The committee on this bill have reported that on arriving at the decision that the preamble was not proved, they had not lost sight of the way in which this line is calculated to fill up the gap which exists in railway communication between Dorchester and Exeter ; but the evidence given before them by autho rities of high consideration led the committee to feel the importance of a railway communication on one uniform gauge between Exeter and London, in a north-eastern direction, via Axminster and Salisbury, and of another from Exeter to Portsmouth and the eastern coast via Dor . cheater ; and believing that a communication so desirable could not be attained if the Devon and Dorset bill were passed, they are of opinion that they aro best promoting ' the public welfare by giving an opportunity in the next ' session for the establishment of one uniform gauge through ' out that district, and which Mr. Scott, the chairman of the South Western Usilway Company, had given the com mittee an assurance should be done by that company. SWANSEA VALLEY RAILWAY.—The Standing Orders Committee of the House of Lords have thrown out this company's bill. ELINBLIROH. PERTH, AND DUNDEE ILAILWAY.—The Committee of the Mouse of Lords have declared this bill I r proved. WiIITEHAVEN AND FVENESS.—AIeo proved. MARYLEBONE MEETING! ABOUT TURKEY.—It is stated that a public meeting of the inhabitants of the borough of Marylebons is about (3 be held, with a view to test the state of public opinion upon the aagressice course Itu.,ia is now pursuing towards Turkey. It is considered. looking at the composition of the English cabinet, and the manner in which parliament has been silenced upon this subject, that some movement on the put cf the public is absolutely nesessary. ghe exsrefsfs• TO CORRESPONDENTS. h ireerind Witten et" The Express." contatlLOll the same evening's • Gazette." is published every Tuesday end Yvklay night in Uwe kit pos h int tw meats Intended for " The Express," London V.veninn paper, start be at the (Mee, 10. Bouverisoeueet. by Two o'elook on the hay of publiaation. NIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE. Ti. DAT—Marniag. 6b. 6g. 39m. Tgagoguw—lturning. LONDON, WEDNESDAY, JULY 13. THE Earl of CLARENDON Wad loudly cheered in the House of Lords, last night, when he said " that the Government did not consider that the presence of the British and French fleets in the Bay of Bebika was at all similar, or could in any way be compared to the occupation of the Danubian Principalities. And certainly no condition with respect to the de parture of the one, or the evacuation of the other, would be made." Small intimations of minis terial views are better than none at all. The less disposed the Ministry is to give the Par liament and people of Great Britain an opportunity to declare their sense and feeling about the proceed ings of Russia, the more earnestly must the people qualify themselves to form their judgment and ascer tain their own predominant feelit.gs in regard to the great questions when peace or war are in the balance. We do not speak of choice, beeause we are irrevo cably convinced that, if Turkey is despoiled by Rus sia, there is no choice for us. From time to time, ever since the independence of Turkey was secured by the Five Powers, our Ministers have de clared in Parliament, that we were bound by all considerations, national and international, to guard that independence, and assert it under any circumstances. We are, therefore, bound ; and any hint, in any form, of a doubt whether we shall keep our word, and hold to our engagements, will be re ceived by the intelligent part of the nation with indignant astonishment. There is probably no man among us who would venture to propose, directly. that we should desert Turkey in tho very crisis con templated in our whole eastern policy. If dishonour is proposed at all, it will probably be in some indirect manner—there is no saying what; for we do not care; to follow the discreditable windings of a dis. honest policy. Instead of puzzling our vision by prying into such dim recesses, it is better to be look ing ahead, and refreshing our memories about the elements of conflict in Eastern Europe, and about so much of Asia and Africa as may be involved in the engrossing question of the day. The CZAR calls upon his people, by his proclama tion, to follow him to a religions war—" to move forward on behalf of the orthodox faith." He holds his position by a religious, as well as a political tenure; and it is impossible for him to tolerate di versities of faith within his own dominions. The dreadful treatment of the Jews in 1843 is not for gotten by us, it is to be hoped ; nor yet the memo rable fact that the haughty NICHOLAS had to listen to such remonstrance and rebuke as monarchs seldom hear when he stood before the old POPE in the Vatican in 1844, to give or hear an account of his treatment of the Latin Church in Poland. He had made the most oppres sive attempts to bring over the Polish Christians to the Greek faith ; and the aged and timid GRE GORY XVI. was roused by the cruelty of the propa gandism to speak to the despot, then standing un covered before him, as he had probably never been spoken to—since his childhood. Now, if the Turks retained in full vigour the old fanaticism of their faith, rendering the probable war a simple crusade, with out immediate political object, it might be a question whether such a war came within the description of any existing treaty ; and it might, perhaps, be said with reason, that England and France had nothing to do with a war between Mahometanism and the Greek Church, beyond seeing that the religious quarrel did not become a political one, or stepping in whenever it became so. But the fanaticism of the CZAR, real or assumed, is not reciprocated by the Porte, more or less. The war of 1829 was treated in the first place as a religious war, but ;in its extreme peril, :the Porte then found that it could accept Christian aid; and it has been strengthening in all its resources from the close of that war to this day—distinctly and unquestionably in consequence of its Christian alliances. Its recent guarantee of the liberties and privileges of its Christian subjects is proof sufficient that it has no desire for a religious war ; and its dependence for support on the powers of Western Europe will probably keep the zeal of the Faithful within reasonable bounds. But what a scene lies behind and below ! There is Syria, with its strange aggregation of faiths, no two of which can meet in the paths of the Lebanon, or in any cove of the sacred shore, without coming to blows. It is to be hoped that we do not forget the horrors, spread over so many years, of the Christian wars in the Lebanon, arrested at last with so much pains and cost, and sure to break out again if Turkey is left unaided to sustain the pious onslaught of the CZAR. Besides the old quarrels between Christian and Mahomedan, be tween the Latin and the Greek Churches, and be tween Christians and Jews, there are the ill under stood tribes of the Lebanon, who, in 1841, fought out the quarrels which had risen up between the European powers—the mysterious Druses being un derstood to represent England, the monastic Maro nites, with their antique law of revenge, being re. garded as representatives of France, and the Greek Christians of Russia. Every step of llicuokts in the direction of Turkey is vigilantly watched from the peaks of the Lebanon; and the first religious war cry on the banks of the Danube—the first exhibition of the Cross and the Crescent on the ridge of the Balkan—will evoke clouds of ex terminating warriors from the dells and defiles of the Lebanon, eager for the pious work of torture and slaughter. If there were devils incarnate dwell ing among us now—beings whose delight was in the shrieks and groans of slow torture, in the murder of whole tribes, in the burning of whole villages, in changing the fair scene overlooked from SoLoMoN's cedars into a howling wilderness, they would cheer on the CZAR in his southward march, and bridge over the Danube for him. If the powers of hell are ever triumphant on earth, it is in the midst of a reli gious war. The wise and humane thing now would be, if there were no obligation of good faith in the case, to check the CzAR, betimes and sternly ; and if there must be war, to take care that it is a political one—as it will be if Western Europe sustains the !Ottoman Porte. The image of Syria recalls that of Egypt. The fate of Constantinople must decide that of Cairo. Egg pt may not have made so much social progress as Tur key has been making for many years; but the im provement has begun, and will go on, if the countiv be left unmolested. It was Egypt, as British Chris tians should remember, that procured safety to the English through all Syria, as well as on the banks of the Nile. When Syria was taken from Egypt the old PACIR warned us that we should never be so safe there again ; and as long as ho lived he satiri cally inquired of travellers how they liked the change. We have fostered the best tendencies of Egypt, and facilitated its advance in arts and com merce; and we enjoy an advantageous passage to India through its territory. In a spirit of marvellous wisdom and moderation the late Nett s kept tory open for our transit,through all the disturbances and ill-feeling of the war, and the wrongs (as he con. sidered them) done to himself and los heirs. Such moderation and wisdom are not to he looked for twice over, if the war went well for Turkey ; for the Mahometan spirit would then be roused in Egypt, ly the war went well for Russia, and i.ce power ex. tended into the Levant, what would ht come of the security and quiet of our passage to 1 ?If there was ever any reason in our advunc•ing mac north-west frontier in India; if we really had any national interest in the Siege of Herat; if a si le word of excuse remains to be said in &fern., our enter prise in Affghanistan ; if the snows i • '• aiva really smothered projects dangerous to our ha, .at empire; if our whole view of the relation" of Asia to Europe, for a century past, has any n Awn in it, —Egypt must be an important consMoration in the great question of the hour. It might have been a matter of strong interest seven years ago, whether the French or the English diflonuo.st, were most in favour with the old PACllA—wlictLer the colonisa tion of north Africa by France ghoul,; es tend along the entire coast to the Red Sea, or t::e it.fluenee of England be found the stronger ;ar • Molter the dark son of IBRAIIEEM, or the white s should succeed to the throne, and determine t;t• elations of the country towards the European t; • :a. But a far more serious and comprehensive i !ion a,ises now—whether Russia shall wall up tn:r portal to Asia, and engross the easiest p.:.5.7..;e to our dominions there. This question itmiudes much more than even the vast consider ,•' a of our eastern possessions remaining ours. !: eludes the alternative of European civilisation !ding Asi a from our territories as a centre, or of .t ,tic barba rism gaining ground in Europe the, ugti that vesti bule which the CZAR will have thrown open to it whenever he can do what he will with his own, from the White Sea to the Greek Archipelago. That time, however, will not come. Tile peoples of Europe are not asleep, nor paral3 sfA, nor bound hand and foot—however some of Okra may appear to be so in regard to their domestic poatics. The ground gained by humanity is not goiog to be lost. The privileges of Representative Government have not come to bo undervalued in our happy islands, nor elsewhere; however they may be repressed by the strong hand of the well-wishers of the CZAR. The industrial spirit is a spirit, and not a slavery : sod it will be found, if need be, to animate and not disv.urage our determination to keep our national Lith, and hear our national testimony, and do our n duty, oa behalf of the life and liberty of all moms. We should have been glad if our hlinistees hod given us the opportunity we have a right to &mar,' of speak ing our mind and will betimes through our l'arliament. But there are other ways of declaring ams& Ives. Our duty—to check Russia, is clear; and 'A( mean to do our duty. The circumstances of the hour re.:all the few words—the only ones that could be ex ,sited from him—uttered by the Turkish Wezeer cn that Sep tember day of 1827 which seemed to !cave his coun try wholly at the mercy of the CZAR—words which were painful to England thee but are purely animating to us now : " God and my right," said he, calmly; " Such is the motto of England. What better answer can we give when you intend to attack us?" Those words are sent across the Danube now; and, if need be, they will be sent hack, in that echo which the world knows so well, from the banks of the Thames. THE debate in the House of Lord,-, the second reading of the Transportation of 01111 .1 rl Bill, was a useful instalment to the existing ste..; of informa tion on an important subject. ltece i t vents have had the unfortunate effect of limiting 01, area of dis mission on this point within very name.. boundaries. It has been too hastily taken for granted that the mother country and the colonies have two distinct and opposite interests in the matter of convict trans portation. The gist of the argument was supposed to be contained in the two propositinns, that Eng land had a great interest in the expatriation of the dishonest portion of her populat:ou, while the colonies had an interest equally great in the rejec tion of convicted criminals. This is, however, a very weak statement of the case. Many et' I cur colonies have grown rich by the facilities afliinwd them of profiting by convict labour. Nobody can deny that even now there are modern colonies contending with the difficulties consequent upon the want of labour, which would be only too glad to avail II emselves of the advantages of the assistance of con. 'nets, supposing that they were enabled to make use of these advantages under due protection. It may be admitted at once that for Eng land it is an unmixed good to be rid of her convicts, and it is not quite so certain that the can only be rid of them by inflicting a corresponding amount of evil on her dependencies. There are numbers of new colonies struggling into existence which would be willing enough to have the benefit of convict labour, and it is the duty of a Colonial Minister to look out for these. It may be true enough that colo nies which have passed through the first phases of social life are thoroughly warranted in rejecting the ad mission of doses of moral poison into their body politic, but it is not so sure that, in struggling com munities, where the strong arm of a convict is every thing, and his moral influence nothing, our trans ported criminals may not be looked upon in the light of a benefit instead of a curse. England may be glad enough to be rid of them, and yet the colony have reason to rejoice in receiving them. BAkftlN6- TON, the pickpocket, only saw half the truth when he wrote in the colony to which he was transported!: We ratriots are, for, be it understood, We left our country for our country's good. It is not at all improbable that the colony in ques tion, in the earlier period of its existence, profited more by the presence of the light-fingered gentry than the mother-country saved by their absence. Nevertheless, it may be taken as an axiom that no country will be willing to receive as guests the tenants of our gaols whenever it can do without them. We can scarcely imagine any colony, the inhabitants of which have stir. mounted the first difficulties of their position, that would look to the Governor of Newgate as the person above all others capable of recommending them suitable assistants in their endeavours, or grant him a carte blanche to appoint certain gentlemen placed under his charge to posts of honour within their territories. The remark of BACON is as true now as when it was first written : " It is a shameful and unblessed thing to take the scum of people and wicked calcimined men to be the people with whom you plant, and not only so but it spoileth the plantation." We do not, however, want to io`,lnt with these people; we only want to use their physical strength, which has hitherto been employed io making war against the old society, to help in building up the new. Convicts should only be transported to colonies which stand in need of their labour, and the transportation should only take place upon the distinct condition that the mos ment the colonists objected to the importation of that kind of labour, transportation to the colony so objecting should cease. Upon these grounds only ran the continuance of I the punishment of transportation be defenele , l; but these are sufficient. Countries which have few out lets for transportation, such as France, are ever sub. jest to the infliction of having criminals east loose N 4 eh op PC cc b)