The Express. — London, England, 1848-08-11 00:00:00

IMPE It lAL PARLIAMEIN T• HOUSE OF LOROo.—TIII3ItBDAT, Auo. 10. The Loan CniasaiLLon tank his seat st 5 o'eleck. PRIVATE BUSINESS. SECOND READlNGe.—Walsall Improvement (No. 2); Ediebuelh, and Olsownw and Edinburgh and liatbrate Railway Caimans Amendment; Bills. WIRD READlNCh—rabaey, }Unbend. and Millet Itaiiway Bill. PUBLIC BUSINESS. !SECOND READINGS.—Pert amentare Electors Ercha". } kal a ur wakti o n . g oe i e li e s; Highway Rates, Unlawful Oaths Acts (Ireland) (Onttlatianee sod Amendment= Row; sm.. COSlMlTTEEe.—Caledoetan Canal; THIRD RE totNOi.—limn Duties; Naval Medical r•onpleretral Fund society ; Juvenile Offenders (Ireland); Land Tax Corn katers' Names; Wtn,lree Castle and Town At nrosehma Improvement, ?amour: Officer. t'oneeidation; Charity Trust Regulation; Ifilla PAISLEY, BARR D, HEA AND HURLET RAILWAY BILL. Oa the motion that this bill he read a third time, Lord BEAUMONT called the attention of the house sla v a , petitioa of the Glasgow, Paisley , Railway Company. which he had presented agains t the hill , and moved that it he read a third time that day six months. The Earl of DEVON supported the bill. After et few wor 'a from I.e.rd REDEBOALE, The amendment was withdrawn, and the bill read a third line and passed. PUBLE: HEALTH BILL. Messengers from the House of Commons appeared at the bar, and requested a conference with their lordships on the subject of the amendment.; made by their lordships in this bill. On the motion of the Earl of StiAresentoor, the fol lowing noble lords were appointed managers on the part of their lordships :—The Earl of Devon, the Earl of Warwick, Earl Granville, the Reel of Strafford, Viscount Canning, Lord Redemlale, and Lord Campbell. On the return rat the messengers on the part of their lord ship., the Earl of Deyoer stated that the managers, en the pert of the Commons, hal delivered their reasons for dis senting from their lordships' amendments. THE AI:MALIAN COLONIES. Earl GREY rose to lay on the table certain papers in con nexion with Australia, and. in doing so, he trusted that the great interest which had been felt on the subject would be a sufficient apology for the few remarks which he was about to make. When the rest of emigration to Australia woo com pared with the number of persons who now go annually from our shores to that colony, it was surprising to find that so grist a number of persons leR this country for that distant part of the world, but it could not be expettid that emigra tion to that qearter could bo carried to such an extent as to produce any very perceptible effect on the population at home. The cost of conveying an emigrant to Australia might be taken in round numbers to he somewhere about 20!. 'Coking the average of the lest seven years. the annual number of emigrants to Australia had been 122 000 persons; hut in the last year it had increased t 3 258,000, the cost of 'his additional number being ab nit 2,500.0001. Emigration to that colony was of the greatest importance to the empire, affording as it did a wide field for the enterprise of many ardent spirits which they could not find at home, and creating a thriving ;immu nity, with whom a e might carry on a large and lucrative trade; our Australian trade being, in fact, one of the most important which we possessed. When it was remembered that the labourers we sent out there were engaged in pre paring one of the raw materials employed in the manufac tures of this country—that by their comumption of tea and linger they created an additional trade between this country and China—that they contri buted largely to additional occupation at home—and also that they of orded employment to our ships—it must he admitted that it was important to promote emigration to Australis to the greatest possible extent. (Hear, hear.) And this object was one which, during the last 20 years, had not been n. elected by previous administrations. He wished to call the attention ol their lordshinsto a comparison of the state of the Australian colonies in 1828 and at the present moment, and their lordships would be, he thought, surprised to tee what had been accomplished within the lane 20 years by the energy and acivity of the settlers. In 1828 the only colonies whrch we occupied in that quarter of the globewere New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land, the extent of settlement in each being small, and the whole population of both not exceeding 53,000, of whom 23,000 were convicts in a state of servitude, and a large number of the remainder had origin ally proceeded there as convicts. Now, New South Wale', including Port Phillip, extended about 1,000 miles by 300 broad, part of which wax certainly occupied as pasturaee only, hut still it was advent...germ-1y employetl—the whole area of the colony being three and a half times larger than Great Britain, and the coast line extending 1,500 miles. Besides this, we occu pied Southern and Western Australia and the valuable island of New Zealand; and the whole British population in the different Austrolten colonies now amounted to about 300,000. In twenty yearn, therefore, that population hail increased about flee or six-told ; but their wealth had increased still mere rapidly, and that could be best judg,l of by the exports from the colonies. In 1828 the whole exports were 181,0001,; in 184.5—the last yew up to which the returns bad been made—the exports had risen to 2,189,0001 ' being twelve-told in ',event' , n yeers. (Hear, hear.) In 13.30, when be first knew anything officially of these colonies, there was no provision for the emigration of the labouring classes; but at the close of that year Lora Ripen, established a system of the tale of land fur the purpose of applying the revenue realised thereby to carrying out this class of emigrants. A COMBO, ion was also appointed on the subject, con r which the Duke of Richmond prodded, and thee succeeded in inducing shipowners to furnish pongee at a cheaper rate to the labouring class. The funds were, how. ever, low, and although the operations were at first on a small scale, the- gradually became greater, and the result was that, in 1837, the extent of emigration had 10 greatly in creased that a separate commit-ion was appointed for the management of hat branch of public =sinew, which woo, in fact, the origin o. the Land and Emigration Commies oa. In the following ten s ear, the population was nearly double d. The South Australian Commission sent out 10,000 persons; the New Zealand Compel y, 7,000; and altogether there went our in the ten years 100,000 emigrants, 80,000 of whom wire provided with passages out of the sale of lands in the colenics. (Hear, hear.) He would now for a m ,went turn to individual results. Port Phillip might be said to be the creation of the lag ten years. In 1836 there were only a sew scattered inhabitams there, estimated at between two and three hundred; but io March, 1840, at the time of the last census, the population bad in creased to 32,800, including the town of Melbourne; and the imports were then 205,0001 and the woes 314,000/ , making a revenue of 158,0001 , in a colony which only ten or eleven years before had been occupied by only two or three hundred peep 4. In South Australia the results had been Itia.OSt equally remarkable, He should say that the new and rising community 4,f Port Philip had been established without one shilling of expense to this country. Although South Ass Tali& had had difficulties to contend with, yet for some years past she had =urged from them. In short from the time when that colony was taken out of th , hands of the commissioners originally appointed, and the management as sumed by the government—Rom that time South Australis had continuo d steadily to advance, and now possessed a large surplus revenue and a large fund applicable tothe con veyance of emigrant.. And it could nut be said that this was owing to the street mineral wealth of the colony, be cause her difficulties were at their le ight in 18-10, and in 1843 they had been entirely overcome; and the colony was in a state of advancing prosperity before the mines had been opened to say exte.A. (Hear, hear.) It was also a mis take to suppose that these colonies had been formed merely by the emigration of 1 tlesurers ; BO car from that being the case, the population also consisted of officers of the army and navy • gentlemen who had taken degrees at our univer sities an d other persons of station and intelligence; in short, he helieved South Australia and New South Wales would be fours; to contain a large proportion of persons of superior education and intelligence. (Hear, hear.) It was curious and important, from the evidence of Mr. Edwards, to mark the comparison between the Australian colonies and our .11 American colonies, now the United Stater. of America. The p•pulation of Sydney in 1836 was 19,000; and in 1816, 38,000. Let their lordships compare this with the old American colonies; the population of lios. toe, 17 years sifter it wa+ founded. in 1790, was only 18.000, and the population of what was now the great city of New York, in 1773, immediately before the breaking out of the war of independence was only 21,800. Hayloft then been founded for a much longer period than Sydney had been at the present time, it contained a population of 17,000 lees than Sydney now did. la 1790 the population of Philadelphia was only 28,000. But what would be found to he still more remarkable was a comparison of wealth and the advantage to the mother country of the Australian colonies over the American. The population of the American colonies in 1772 was 2,300,000: the population of the Australian colo nies in 1845 was 283,000. Now the imports of all descrip tions into the American colonies in 1773 were about one mil lion sterling, whilst the imports into the Australian colonies in 184.5 had been 2,1)70,000). Theesporteof the old American colonies in 1773 were something short of 2,0130,000/., whilst the exports of the At•stralian colonies in 1845 had been 2,18.1,0001. (Hear, hear.) The value per head of exports and imports in both cases would show the result more strikingly. The imports in the old American colonies were Bs. 9d. per head of the population whilst the imports in the Austranan colonies were 71. ss. 10d. per head. The exports in the American colonies were 16'. Bd. per head, and in the Australian colonies, 71. 14s. 3d. per head. (Hear, hear.) It could not be said. therefore, that the population of our colo nies were less capable of carrying on their enterprise new than they had been in former days; and when the difficulty of a voyage to Australia, as compared with America, was considered, the result was still more remarkable. But great as this progrees had been, he was far from saying that it was not the duty of parliament and the government to give on zymase(' Impetus to emigration. (Hear, hear.) In 1815 the emigration to Australia was nearly sus pended; but it was resumed again in 1846, and about 2,000 persons were sent out in that year. Since that period emigration to Australia had steadily progressed. Last year the governor of New South Wales reported that the debt which previous emigration hid causc d to accumu late was nearly paid off, and emigration might be safely re sumed in that quarter. Feeling confidence in the reasons assigned by Sir Charles Fitzroy, he at once directed the emi gration commissioners to nsume the emigration there, and the first ship sailed in October, and since then the funds had kept pace with the increased emigration. In the present par there had been et of to New South Wales 23 ships carry tog 7.2(3 and to South Australia 11 ships carrying 2,110; and ships being now despatched at the rate of six in every month, it was calculated that before the close of the year there would be sent 40 additional ships carrying 10,000 emigrants, to that in the course of this year there would be added no less thou 18,059 persons to the population of those co lonies. At the conementrimnt of 1846 the population of South Australia was 22,390, since which there had been de spatched nearly 8,000 emigrants by the emigration commis sioners, or nearly one-third of the existing population. It appeared by a report of the Legislative Assembly of New South Wiles in 1847 that the whole umber of hired sir. I, vents was 30,000. Th. Olovarrear of -South Australia of the healthy condition of the emigrants who there during that year, and the total absence e First-class vestals only were employed, and' performed muck quicker by emigrant ships engaged in the conveyance of merchandise. three months the longest voyage had occupied _ the shortest 84 days. It appeared that young women were *skein chugs of at South Australia they landed by a committee of ladies, who dm found suitable employment for them. He would now state some of the measures which bad been adopted with a view of increasing this .emigration. Tho expense must, of course, be mainly provided for by the colonies; and the voyage to Australia was so much larger than that to America, that a considerable portion of the expense was paid out of private resources in this country. For so long a voyage emigrants required en extensive outfit, which, with other expense', generally cost them 61. each. He had instructed the Land and Emigration Commissioners to consider themselves, as it were, trustees for the colonies, with the view of snaking the revenue obtained from the sale of land productive of the largest possible amount of benefit to the colonies, so that when there was a comparatively . small number of emigrants the amount required of them might be lessened to encourage increased emigration. The number of emigrants varied very much. A year ego there was some di ffi culty in obtaining a full number for Australia; but now, on the contrary, the unfortunate depression of trade, and consequent diminution of employment, had caused a great demand for emigration to Australia ; and the Emigration Commissioners had been able to obtain en additional pound from the emi grants, thus enablins the fund of the colonies to send out a greater number of emigrants. In consequence of the French revolution a large number of English workmen had been compelled to leave France, and although they had been employed in manufactures, and had net been accustomed to agricultural pursuit., he was anxious to afford every facility for sending them to Australia, and after various communications with his noble friend (Lord Ashley), who had taken a deep interest in this, as he did in all benevolent objects, it was arranged that by a subscription in this country of 41. per head for the adults, and 21. for the children, these workmen should be sent out to Australia, and he believed they would prove to be a most eligible class of emigrants. The extensive emigration which had taken place annually to Canada and the United States, especially from Ireland, was provided for by funds remitted from America by the friends of persons in this country who had previously emigrated; and great facilities existed for making such remittances from America, but such had not been the rase a ith reference to Australia. It was,however,now arranged that emigrants going to Australia might p ey money to the commissariat officer in the colony, and so have it remitted to this country and app.ied by the emigration commissioners to sending out any persons in whore favour such remittances might be made. Ile was inclined to anticipate the most favourable results from such an arrangement, ter wages were higher in Australia than in Canada, and the laboureis were not liable to interruptiou in their work by the severity of the winter season. He was even willing to hope that work ing men would club together themselves in this country in order to enable one or two of their number to emigrate who, in their turn, might remit money borne to ethers to join them. New Zealand and the Cape of Good Hope were both most favourable fields, but the tide of emigration to those colonies had not of late been very great ; 18,000 per sons bad, however, been sent out to Australia, at a cost exceeding a quarter of a million. He had confined his observations to the Australian colonies chiefly because the papers which he had presented related to them but he might say, with regard to North America, that the continued :and anxious attention both of the government and the provincial authorities woe directed to the means which might be adopted with the most success with the view of extending and promoting emigration to that country, and facilitating the settlement of the fertile land which the British empire possessed in that region of the globe. (Hear, hear.) lie felt sanguine that hereafter it would be in his power to show that much had been done to promote this end. (lieu, hear.) Before he eat down Le would add one fact which had come to his knowledge within a few days, showiag the rapid progress of the Australian colonies. Sir Charles Fitzroy, in his speech to the Legisla tive Council of New South Wall e, on the 24th of March, io the present year, slid that, notwithstanding the commercial depreo ion in the mother country, snd the low price of colo nial produce, the chief resources of the colony had increased in a most surprising manner. The exports of wool had reached, in the last year, 22,000,00001b0, the official value of which was 1,260,0001., being an increase of 6,700,01 , 011e5. over the previous year, and equal to the whole exportation of the year 1838, only seven years before. (Hear, hear ) The export of tallow, it appeared, in 1847, had been 60,000 cwt., the official value of which wee 107,0001_, bring an increase over the previous year of 47,0001. The interest of the sub- ject, both to the mother country and to the colonies would, be hoped, he deemed a sufficient excuse for the leneth at which he had trespassed upon their lordships' time. (Hear.) l The noble earl concluded by laying certain papers on the table relating to the Australian colonies. Lord MONTEAGLE expressed his regret that the state merit of the noble earl should have contained no reference to the important question of colonisation. particularly when he recollected that the first act of the no le earl's lit,. under his noble father was to introduce that question. Something more, therefore, might hove been expected from the noble earl than the small and meagre scheme of doing nothing which he had propounded ti their lordships that evening. On the let of June, 1847, an address to the crown was una. nimously carried in the other house of parliament, recom mendin 7 a system of coloois lion and inquiry on the subject, and her Majesty in her reply said she would give instruction for ouch steps as might carry out the object of that ad- rem. But no such steps had been taken by the government, anc no such special inquiry as had been recommended took place. Something had been done, he was sorry to ray, to obstruct and check emigration to British North America, aml done ' too, at the suggestion of the nobl • lord himself, and to the deep disappointment of those interested in the experiment. The noble lord read extract+ from various epeechei and docu ments to prove those allegations aeainst the government and the n earl—amonest others extracts from despatches in which the noble earl admitted the want of and ev in promised tome comprehensive and systematic scheme of colonisation. Where was that scheme 1 Weld the noble earl come for ward and address his governor, Lord Elkin, with a view to the introduction of any such practical scheme, or would he attempt to me t those diffieul ies and discharge those duties which he had himself admitted ought to he met and dis charged ? The noble earl next referred to the address of the 'meeker of the )louse of Assembly in t toe of our Australian ramjets and to other authorities, to show that so great was the dearth of labour that they had not a sufficiency to cut their abundant crops ; and his recommendation would be, instead of importing Indian corn to export labour. The same might be said of the Cape, Canada, and other colo nies, where there was an almost inexhaustible soil, but a de ficiency of labour. The question of emigration was now be ginning to be considered by the people of thes country as an imperial question, apart from the mere selfish motive of clearing If a reduellant population, and as a qu.s'ion in volving the well being alike of the colonies, the emigrants, and the mother country. It was the duty of parliament to do that fi ir the coloeies in providing them with labour by a large and comprehensive scheme of emigr.sticn which they could nut do for tuemselves. Colonisation would then be come what it ought to he—a source of prosperity to all ; to the colonies by giving a value to their uncultivated lands, which they had not now ; aid to the mother country by re lieving the overpopulated districts ofthe pressure which now weighed upon thi m. He was sorry to say that there was nothing in the noble lord's explanation to lead the house to suppose that any such lane and general scheme wan in con templation by the government, or that his noble friend pro posed to redeem the pledge he gave in that respect. He regretted this on general grounds hut I specially in .egad to Ireland, fur it was impessible to say what danger might arise from the id. eta of the next few months on the physical condition of the people of that country. Earl GREY denied that in the speech he made on Mr. Buller'a motion in the House of Commons he had urged measures of extensive colonisation on principles different from those which he now supported. He had newt dis puted the value of increasing our intercourse with our colo nies, or of creating in them new markets for our manufae tur,s; but what he doubted was the value of emigration when looked upon merely as a means of effecting any posi tive reduction in the population. Now the shackles of labour were removed, and men were allowed to turn their labour to the best account, he believi d there never would be wanting here, for any length of time, the means of employ • meat fur any great number of the people. There would be i occasional difficulties of .ours:, but those difficulties would be temporary, and that there were no , the means in this country of producing comfort and wealth for those who would labour he did not believe—and any attempt on the part of the state to create any undue or violent dimi nution in the number of the population by arti• finial means would be useless, se it would nee scanty and inevitably be followed by such an increase as would rapidly till the vacuum thus occasioned. In Ireland, howl ver, the case was, in some respects, different. In that country there were difficulties arising from political as well es economical cir cumstances, which operated against the employment of labour, and which gave a greater value to emigration as a means of reducing the competition of labour. This had always been his opinion, but to look forward to it as a syste matic means of carrying off an immense number of the popu lation to the colonies had never been the view in which emi gration had been regarded by him. The sentiments he had expressed to-night were the same as he had expressed in 1843 in the House of Commons. The great difference bi - tween his noble friend and himself was, that his noble friend thought an enormous grant of public money—several mil lions—should be applied to emigration purposes. lie, on the other hand, considered it unjust to that part of the pepula tion that remained at home that large sums should be taken from the taxes of this country for such a purpose—and that the more prudent course for the state to take was rather to assist and direct, leaving the emigrants to act Ppontaeeously for themselves, than to undertake to plant great numbers of the people of this country on the vacant lands of the colonies. The noble lord, by contrasting the present position of South Australia with Western Australia and the eastern division of the Cape, showed tbe'advantsge of the system of making the sale of the colonial lands the means of providing the colonies with labour over that of government grants His noble friend complained that nothing had been done by the governmsn; in reference to the address of the House of Com mons of last year. True, it was, that that addrs as had net been transmitted to the governors of the colonies with directions to make inquiries and report the result, but, previous to that address and since, he had been in constant communication with those governors upon the sueject of emigration, and the best means of pro moting it, and the result of those communications was the papers he had now laid on the table of the house. With regard to Canada, the attention of the executive council had been earnestly directed to the subject of colonisation, and it was because he did not consider it his duty to press his opi nions against the experience and knowledge which the Cana dians must have of their own affairs, that be bad not pressed Isis:* — *met beef. ant}vthetwiw into the into which they were not at New York. (Hear.) There was in Canada the moat perfect system for the assistance and guidance of the emigrant in seeking far employment, and it had worked to the mani fest advantage of those persons. But to say that government was to select emigrants, and that in such numhen as was suggested by the noble lord, was ridiculous. What a task would it he for government officers to select a body of 260p00 emigrants ! Why the thing was physically impoa sible. (Hear, hear.) What government ought to do, and what they would do, was to hold out every inducement to those who were fit to emigrate to do to of their own accord. Thit was the plan which they had hitherto pursued both in Australia end Canada; and they had no reason to be diss de fied with the results. UNLAWFUL OATHS (IRELAND) BILL. The LORI) CHANCELLOR, in moving that this bill be read a Si coed time, said that their lordships were aware that certain acts had been passed at varium 'times for Ireland, making certain oaths unlawful. The first was the 60 Oeo. 111., the second the 4th Ono. IV.. and the third was the 2 and 3of her present Majesty. The first of those acts made certain societies unlawful, and the second and third provided against the administering of unlawful oaths, de scribed certain societies which wire to be deemed unlawful. and ordained that certain penal. its should be inflicted on the administering of unlawful oaths. Now, if it were possible, without adding any further provisions, to ascertain what were the objects of societies considered dangerous by the govern ment—if what was going on at these meetings could he discovered—the law WI it stood would be suffi cient, but, unfortunately, although a society might be deemed illegal, there was still great difficulty in ascertaining the nature of its proceedings. This was illustrated by what had recently taken place in Ireland. Societies notoriously sedi tions had been formed, and had held frequent meeting , ,but it had been found quite impossible toget at their proceedinge, and the consequence had been, that by means of these societies or clubs, as they were called, that rebellion, as it was termed, had be - n organised which had led to so much mischief and alarm. Fertunately that rebellion had not gone on to the extent intended by its authors; hut he need not tell their lordships that although a rebellion might he suppressed by the authorities, still, unless means were formed to suppress secret societies and the various ramifications o: conapiracy,lt was vain to expect any:hing like permanent tranquillity in Ireland. (Hear.) By means of societies of this description the peace of that country had been disturbed, and war had been carried on against her Majesty', forces, although, fortunately, to but an inconsiderable extent. The government hod lung known, an l circumstances bail ultimately proved, that these suspicions were not unfounded, that conspiracies were going on in these secret societit s, and used what means were in their power fir the purpose of checking the mischief. The bill which he held in his hand proposed to renew the acts which made certain societies illegal, and having declared such societies illegal for a further period of two years, the last clause made the previous enactments effectual by tarnishing the means of preventing these societies from carrying on their machinations. To provide for the swearing of meet informations before a magistrate was impossible, but as much as could be done was clone by this clause. It required that de positionashould be sworn to helore a magistrate to this effect, I that reasonable suspicions existed that certain societies were I carrying on illegal practices, upon which the bill empowered the magistrate to issue his w , authore.ing certain offi cers of the police to attend those meetings, and if necema to force an entrance, and having made his entry, to seal for documents and books likely to discover the o b j e c t: of th society. It had been suggested that some more immediate remedy should have been given against the persons found ; hut on consideration that would be found to be unnecessary, because the societies were unlawful under the former bills, and all that was accessary was to obtain the means of making out • cue. All the authorities rewired was means of pre venting these societies being carried en in private. The officer acting on the magistrate's warrant would remain as long in the meeting as he thought necessary. If the proceedings were reasonable he would not offer any opposition ; hut he would nave power to ermine all books and pap is, in order to ascertain the it oblect. It he found that the society was legal, of course he would not disturb it—if illegal. he would at once put the law in force. This might be called an invasion of the rights and privileges of British subjects ; but it was an invasion which was not carried further than was absolutely necessary, and he believed it would oe found that nothing Awn of the powers 'eked for would prevent in Ireland a repetition of these societies and combinations. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances he trusted that their lordships would give their sanction to the bill. Tbc Earl of GLEN LL would defer some observations he hail to make on the principles of the bill until the nez( stage. He had then an amendment to propose, the effect of which wou:d be to put down the Repeal Association on Burgh quay. (Hear, hear.) His opinion wail that so long as they permitted the existence of that pestiferous assoeie- Ceti there would be no peace in Ireland. (Hear, bear.: He should merely further observe, that the 2 and 3 Vict. re quired that persons should be bound by i.legal oath to render them reoponsible, and as the members of these clubs avoided that difficulty he feared that the present act would be im perfect without some specific provision on the sul.jcot. Lord CAMPBELL aid that the noble earl seemed to for get that there was such a thing as common low. Meetings held for ter asonable purposes were always illegal, and pun ishable at common law, and the object of the present bill was merely to oho in evidence for that purpose. Lord RE D ESDAL E ol.iect' d to the temporary character of tie bill. The 2 and 3 Victoria was in elm for five years, and he thought that the same term should be inserted to the present bill. The bill was then read a second time, and the committee filed fur Monday next. PUBLIC lIEALTII BILL. Lord CAMPBELL moved that the reasons given by the Commons in conference on that day for differing from the Lords' amendments to the above hill be printed, as also the amended and farther, that bAh reasons and amendments be considered on Tuesday next.—Agreed to. .., that the house day six months. that a measure a very large por beenintroduced • advanced to Re provisions and j its promotas. nature and cha racter t Irish Society, e. incorporated far the plantation of Ulster, and who Were possessed of sonddereble property in Londonderry and Coleraine. Their estates, which they held for pub lic purposes, were immediately struck at by this bin, and they were to be comprehended in this drag net of a measure, which was intended to convert the property of the proprietor in lee into nothing more than a fee farm rent, and to confer on the middle mail the freehold, of which the present proprietors were to be divested. The hon. and learned gentleman, after detailing the history of the foun dation and incorporation of the Irish Society of the City of London, proceeded to observe that the first few lines of the I hill contained all the information which the Home of Cora mop s had yet received as to the objects and supposed utility of this bill. The preamble towed that, " whereas many estates in Ireland are held under leases for terms with cove nants for perpetual renewal, much inconvenience and bilge• tion has arisen from such tenure, it is deairable to convert the tenure to tenures is fee." Now, those who framed this bill must be aware that by a clause contained in the leas. s granted by the Irish Society it was pro vided that in cue any disputes between the society and their tenants should arise the matter in dispute should be referred to arbitration, and that in consequence nothing approaching to litigation had arisen with the society. He should not have adverted to this but that he found the Irish Society had informed the house that one of the pro moters of the bill was a gentleman a =critter of the house who held an estate under the Irish Society, whose estate has been forfeited by a breach of covenant, and yet he sought by this bill to create a freehold in place of the ferfeiture. ("No, no," from Sir R. Ferguson.) He did not know whether the hon. baronet meant to say that he had not received notice of forfeiture, or that he was not one of the promoters of the bill, and whether the effect of the me enure would not be to confer on him a freehold, when the Irish Society held a for feiture had been in , urred. S-r It. FERGUSON was understood to deny that euch would he the operation ot the bill. Mr. LAW said that might he the hon. baronet's construc tion of the bill, but he (Mr. Law) was prepared to show that such would be the effect of the operation of the measure. He objected that thou who held these estates should sit these in judgment upon their own interests. But now the name acci dent occurred to the Chief Remem h raacer of the Court of Exchequer in Ireland, who also held an estate under the Irish society—who also had incurr.d a. forfeiture, and yet under this bill was appointed the referee to adjudi cate upon petitions presented by the lessees against the proprietors of the estates, the tenure of which it was sought by this bill to change. The bill was nothing more nor lees than the confiscation of every fret hold proprietor in Ireland. The objections which he urged against the hill might be answered or explained in mail eases; but, with regard to the Irish society, to inter fere in order to change the tenure in favour of the middle- man, was nothing but spoliation. The power girt n to the I Chief Remembrancer by the third section was very large, and the wording of the clauses generally would not carry out the principle which the bill had in view. The lease@ of the Irish Society stood its a dill. rent position from the leases of other prof rietors, and to divest them of the tenure which they at present hail, would destroy their character as a public body, and disable them from pertaining their con• tracts with the crown. He had not heard any valid reasons alleged to justify the house in interfering with the estates of the Irish society, which had been granted by the crown for purely pullic purposes, which purposes . they had fulfilled. They w. re the best landlords in the district, and they ap plied all the rents to public purposes. Under those circum- ' stances he hoped the house would not consent to a bill sub versive of the rights of property submitted to them at a period of the session when there was scarcely a sudicient attendance of members. He hoped the noble lord would give him the assurance that the Irish Scciety would be exempted from the operation of the bill ; or, if he did not do that, that he wool-. postpone it till next *union, when all the parties interested would have time to give it more consideration than they could now. Sir W. SOMERVILLE defended himself from the charge brought against him as to the mode in which he in• frodeced the bill. He hal not heard up to the present nio went that there was any objection to the principle of the bill. So long since as 11435 her. Lynch, a master in Chancery in this country, recommended such a measure as this, and he believed it met with the approval of the most eminent judges in Ireland. Lied liceiesdisle, a high legal authority, approved of the principle of the measure, the real object of which was to give increased security to property is Ireland. Its ols• jsct was not is leave the tenure of property dependant en the r newal of a lewe. Sir Michael o•Loghlen condemned the present system of granting renewable leases, which led to great uncertainty with regard to the tenure, and was pro ductive of unnecessary expense. The report of the Devon Commission also matte a special recommendation for the abrogation of that system, which was the tenure existing in one-seventh part of Ireland. Persons who held property in Ireland where the custom of granting renewable leases pre vailed would not lose toy portion of their power to ( nfo:ce the conditions in their leases. (Hear, hear.) He would not say a word in disparagement of the Irish society. but he could not help thinking it strange that a Society existing in Leaden should be the . nly persons objecting to a measure which was to apply to every proprietor in Ireland, and which was sup ported by the Irish members generally. Sitee he introduced the bill he had not received a single letter from Ireland com plaining of it. That being the use, he thought the hen. and learned gentleman ought to leave the people of Ireland to he the judges of their own interests. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LAW said that the lease's only were in favour of it. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that he had not heard of a single levier objecting to it, except the body represented by the hon. and learned gentleman. If any of the details were objectionable, he would be ready to consider them in com mittee ; hut he hoped the house would not consent to the motion of the hon. and hutted gentleman. Mr. 0. A. HAMILTON regretted that his bon. and learned friend spoke as he did of the hon. member for Lon donderry and the Chief Remembrance rof Ireland. (Hear.) He denied that his hon. and learned friend we. justified in saying that the Irish members were only attending to their own in:trete in supporting the bell. lie believed that Mr. Lynch, who had been mentioned before, very correctly de scribed the nature of this tenure when he said that it was a lease for 21 years, with an equity suit at the end of it (Laughter.) No bill introduced (haul the present session, relating to Ireland, was received with so much favour by the people of that country. Sir R. FERGUSON el• flied thet the trusts of the Irish Society were interfered w•th by this bill. They would have the same power that they ever had to enforce their rights. Mr. CALLAGHAN said that the bill was gent tally ap proved of in Ireland, and wou'd, he believed, be productive of great benefit. Sir H. W. BARRON sa i d he was a lessor of property of this description, and he was in favour of the present bill. Tee opinion of the people of Ireland was generally in favour of the bi.l. Mr. GROGAN Reproved of the bill, though a lessor. He thought that if the rights of the Imo, were to ler operated upon, the rights of the lessees should lee also operated upon. (Hear, hear.) fur. LAW said be would withdraw the motion, and would content himself with prewing the clause, of which he bad given notice in committee. Mr. T. M'CULLAGIt defended Mr. Lyle, the chief re membrarcer of Ireland, who hal leen SO pointedly alluded te in the present debate. The only interest which Mr. Lyle had ns a lessor was 381. a year, and it was not likely that an interest of that nature would have any influence upon him in his judicial capacity. Mr. LAW disclaimed any intention of speakine diarespecifully of Mr. Lyle. He merely said that the bill scull place him in an awkward position. Mr. WOOD regretted that the hon. and learned gentle man, the Recorder, mixed up the case of the Irish Society with other considerations. lie thought the ease of the Irish Society a very strong one, and he was >Reposed to nipped their exemption from the operation of the hilL The bill was then committed pro fornel. TITHE RENT CHARGE (IRELAND) BILL. On the order toe the committal of this bill, Mr. HAMILTON expressed a wish to go on, but Mr. MONSELL said he wished the hon. member would agree to a suggestion he had made to pus the fith clause, but powpone the rest of the measure until the next seleion. Sir G. GREY should have no objection to that, but really thought the rest of the measure too important to proceed with this •eesion. Mr. E. B. ROCHE said this hill opened the whole qua- Lion ot the laish church. Why give the Irish church add l. tionsl facilities to collect tithes ? The church property was absolutely the only property that was worth anything at pre- Rent in Ireland. The church got tithes when the landlords , got no rents. 1 f ,here were po it protestant clergy, were there no poor catholic clergy, and were there no rich protestant bishops ? He strongly urged that the measure should be postponed. Mr. HAMILTON uid he would take till a later period of the day to consider what he should do. The SrEcnna then left the chair. The SPEAKER resumed the chair at 6 e'clock. JAMAICA AND TRINIDAD. Mr. HAWES stated, in answer to a question from Lord G. BENTINCK, that Earl Grey had not yet informed him whether he would lay the despatches lately received from Sir C. Grey and Lord Harris on the table. He would in form the noble lord to-morrow of the noble earl's intention. CONFERENCE WITH THE LORDS. Lord hi6RPETH appeared at the bar, and stated that the Lords desired a present conference with the House of Com mons, relative to their amendments in the Health of Towns Bill. A sufficient number of members having been appointed to conduct the conference on the part of the Commons, Lord Morpeth proceeded with them to the Upper House, and after the lapse of a few minutes returned, and stated that they had lett the bill with the amendment in the hae da of the Lords, having stated the reasons of the hon. honee for disagreeing with their lordships on the bill. LEICESTER POST-OFFICE. - - • ••- • •• - - Sir 11. HALk ORD again called the attention of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer to the subject of the nomination of a letter-carrier het• een Leicester and Market Harborough. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the letter-carrier in question had been appointed by the post master general on the recommendation of a railway auditor, and his qualifications for the office as well as his good char acter fully warranted the appointment. Sir H. HALk'ORD asked bow this explanation could be made to agree with the statement of the postmaster's secre tary, who informed him in a letter that the nomination of the letter-carrier had been made at the instance of Mr. eatthier, the former member for Leicester. The hon. bort. TAE: RIMS F , FpAy gTENLI4I6 O - AUGUST n 184 A. • • .s 4 t ' • d W Australia spoke 04 •• . 1 et It* Me. r;itiW IllOYos la assesdatent, that Ike h rho had arrtsWElL #40... " 6 W . or ive h oSittek zoo the said committee this day 'ail UM so of complaints. didd Of the re 41 troll bate in the TO' on. sad ki: fl ed gm i ein , a comp l a i ne d n „,„ the NOyage wee i• • lettitfl4 l .oy Weak east other * was Sf:sended to chewy the *sure of a eux then by vesafga drin.ful pubdirwOria* We eete bappy tri'my that Canada, had don of tte property of Ireland should have been introd Ina period stilitetrted head( in a praiseworthy manner in regard to tali. '.ate as the 13th July last, and should bays advanced I td 106 days, midi Citation by affording facilities to emigrants which they could present stage without any ezplanation of its provisiont Dung unmarried not obtath in New 'York. In Cenaaa the amigrah *ere objects having been furnished to the Ileum by its promo trolls when they prOvided gratuitously with the means of c onyey- The first information he had received of the nature and at.aln boat end otherwise into the into- racier of the measure WU derived from the Irish 800 Tilataw •,.d who CASE OF MICHAEL DOHENY. The Earl ol6l76l(3AiiitaTl7l7attlieoilicer of the house had just laid on the table proclamations of the Lord Lieute nant of Ireland, i,ll. ring rewards for the apprehension of certain persona accused of high !reason. Amongst the rest he saw the name of Michael Dohcny. lie meant, on Monday next to ask why this Doheny, rho had been arrestvd and sent to Nensgh gaol, and subsequently been hailed out, had not had bhls cent up wirainet him to the grand jury, so as that his recognisareers might have been entreated ? The Marquis of CLANAIL-ARDE could not promise that• the noble tad would receive the information he required, as it, would depend upon whether the proceedings had been cosn muoieated by the Irish government. Their lordships adjourned at a quarter-past 9 o'clock. HOUSE OF cX)MMONS.—THUIIBDAY, Aco. 10 'I ha SPEAKE6 took the chair at 12 o'clock. PRIVATE El SINESB. SECOND ''' ''''''''' Dirorec ; Bills. THIRD READlNGS.—Nicholson's Divorce; Waterhouse's Chari ties Exam; hilts. LORDS' AMENDMENTS CONSIDEREn.— Edinburgh Pollee (Amendment and Conso idation of Acts 111111 Police and Sanitary Improvement) ; Nicer Nene Improvement irad Itrainage ; PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETlrroms.—lcy Mr. CA HEW, several from divers parts of Corn wall, against any reduction in the Illative on foreign copier orm—sir G. GREY, from the guardians of the Berwick-upon-Tweed union, in favour of the Marring. (Scotland) Bill.—Mr. ANSTEY, from the grand jury of the county of Sligo, for an amenilm• St if the Irish pros law; and from the high sheriffand reagigraitee of Wigs, for the aboli tion of the office of coroner, and leaving the duties of the office to be discharged by the justices.—Mr. REYNULDs, from the Lord Mayor, aldermen, and buigerees of Dublin, against the Dublin Police Act.— Mr. K. TENTE, from Dr. Toured, a physician of Torquer, complain ' log of the facilities for selling poisons.—Col. THOM lION (2), from Wraloyan buili - s in Yoriuhire, against the sale of spirits on Sundays. —General EVANS, trom the pitiish of tit. Martin, for sanitary pre cautions again.t the cholera—Mr. C. IXSIIINGToN, from West minster, against parliamentary grunts for religious purposes.--Mr. HUME, from Edinburgh, against tar tax for ministers' money.— Col. DUNNE, from Ireland, :wing the Irish poor law. SECOND KEADINGS.—I'our Removal (No. 2); Nuisances and Contagious Diseases; Petty Bag, Ac., (Alma ; Borough Incorporation; Steam Navigal n; Vera (court of Chancery); Bills. COM MITTSIES.— Poor Law Colons Liistriet schools; Dublin Police Turnpike Acts Continuance; Tithe Rent Charge, he. (Ireland) (No. 2); Bilis. KEPORTS.—Court of Justiciary (Scotland); Criminal Law Ad ministration Amendment; &whiter of SUMS., he. (Scotland) Fisheries (Ireland); Bills. NOTICE OF MOTlON.—Asnerry Tow.—Mr. HUME, on Tues day next, to move an address to the crown, to inquire into the map et of the tax levied at Edinburgh and Montrose fur the payment of ministers of the church of Scotland. PUBLIC lIBALTH BILL. Lord MORPlcrli brought up the report of the select committee appointed to draw up reasons for ilibagreeing to certain amendmenis made by the House of Lords on the Public Health Hill, to be submitted at a conference with the Lords. On the motion of the noble lord the report was agreed to, and it was ordered that Lord Morpeth should proceed to the House of Lords and desire a present conference. DUBLIN ELECTION COMMITTEE. Lord R. GROSVENOR brought up a report from the Dublin election committee direcuop him to move the house for leave to the committee to adjourn to Tuesday next, to enable the parties to procure the attendance from Dublin of witnesses to support a fresh branch of the case. On the motion of the noble lord lease to adjourn to Tues day next wee given. SUPPLY. Mr. BERNAL brought up the report of the committee of supply, and on the motion that the house agree to the resolu tions therein contained, Mr. HUME expressed a hope that during the recess his right hon. friend the Secretary-at-War would draw the attention of the cabinet to the recommendations contained in the report of the select committee which sat on the army establishments in 1.837, andof which committee Lord Howick, Lord J. Russell, Lord Palmerston, and Sir John Holihouse had been members. It those recommendations were carried out he teat convinced that a great saving . would be effected, and the efficiency of the military service increased. In with drawing the motion of which he had given notice on this subject, he must enter his protest against the inattention which had been exhibited with regard to the recommenda- tions he referred to. The resolutions were then agreed to, and a bill founded thereon ordered to be brought in. RENEWABLE LEASEHOLDS CONVERSION (IRE LAND) BILL. Sir W. SOMERVILLE moved that the Speaker do now leave the chair, for the purpose of the holm resolving itself into committee on this bill. y r duction of the corerepondeece on this subject between the been charged with an act derogatory of his char then gave notice that he should this day move for the pro- a:ad.:Me first the time the bo tim w e ug a t r i iy ha 7 b ra f e e e n r p o u f t h O i ss tnii..ll postmaster-general and the postmaster of Harborough. JAMAICA. malpractices unworthy a representative body, i ts rel y kad w the imputation stated that his noble friend Earl Grey had not intimated to it could possibly be understood. lie knew fe, ,say him whether he would produce Sir C. Grey's recent despatch to make charges of this kind ; but it was dif fi cult to cubed Lord J. RUSSELL, in answer to Lord o..l3ENistieg, hesitation in denying •individuals it was probable that the noble earl haps with a little brief authority, to impug inelivideer onmpeurrisse from Jameice but as the contents of that document might tiate them. It was also easy for a government, d less upright than themselves. His father, and w ee ...tit would refuse to produce it. FISH DIET —POOR LAW UNIONS. hers of his family, had exercised the duties of Mr. WYLD asked the first commissioner of the poor law amongst his neigbours—he had followed their exall w p i throughout the pone law unions on on e day in the week ? tended that to send down commissioners to keel ' . i nto . whether he had any °ejection to the in stitution of a fish diet ample—end if this was to be denounced as breve., he t Mr. C. LIU 1.1.1e1t &aid that provided there was no ueerior proceedings was nothing Ins than inqui s it or i a l te e l d t object concealed behind the proposal, he should not object, and he would tell the noble lord (J. Rusw.ll) that, always on condition that enourrh was given, to the institution of such an inquisition, he would persist in the pere e ,e'res._ of a fish day once a week. This, however, was a matter of such acts as Christian charity anal hospitality re 07,,,,, within the competence cat the boards of guardians, who had The noble lord havieg stated that refetehments might e, lib, rty to alter their justifiably given on the occasion of a me et ,' ef NAVIGATION LAWS. tion , on what ground could he charge him ' ;.,,-; The house on the motion of the President of the Board of Sibthorp) with acts of bribery because he had Trade, then went into committee nn the Navigation Laws. aced hospitality towards the poor? Let the soy, lit Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the government having beware, for sometimes a man was caught ii, bis one b. reluctantly lean compelled to abandon the hope of being and loot his tail. (Laughter.) Lincoln. tied been put ietote-' able to carry I tlee t the projected alteration in the nave schedule; London had not. Why was the. ?It twee; station Ism during the present *elision, he had only to ex. the house had evidence in one case and not in the N e tt pins their intention to introduce the subject early next see Let the result of the Lincoln committee Le what A alga, sion, whet: he hoped the measure would receive the sanction he should retain the o Alien tat this proceeding wUws of parliament. He therefore had to inform the committee unworthy the government, and unworthy a prime nit that it was not the intention cf ministers to proceed fart er who seemed to rejoice in the tyranny he was than was necessary to enable them to lay their views on th , The SOLICITOR• GENERAL snit; there was no c h i ; subject of the projected change in the navigation laws in the whatever in the bill against the hon. and ge:lant wan k , form of • bill which they had prepared. There had already who bad just sat down, mither was there any such charm been manifested a general disposition or. the part of the the report of the committee. He said his emu:store ha m house to permit this course to be taken, as it did not pledge for the borough; and he (the Solicitor Gen, nil) hoped ta them to any s pinion. He would, therefore, not say any- descendants would do the same, and would def en d th ;hing on the present occasion, as any discussion would only b-rough as ably as he ere hear) Ban the pat e be a waste of time, and with the sole view of laying the bill circle on which this bill proceeded wa s , that ehrrever a ea, before the orm,try, he begged leave to move the revolution. mittee reported the existence of corrupt eree• thew m The resolution having been read from the chair, inquiry should take place to ascertain whether such pr ,n j Mr. HERRIES said that however strongly he might ob- did really exiat. As the hon. and gallant n.emeer did,* ject to the resolution, and whatever his determination might intend to divide on this question, he thou .ht it Linn ecetsty be to oppose the bill when i was brought forward, he to go further into the mitten would not violate the understanding that had been entered Col. S I ISTHORP repeated that his anxiety was atil t into not to discuss the subject on the present occasion. All himself, but for the borough. he would say was, that the more he studied the propos Is of Mr. W. MILES said he had fully dpi cted that the thee. the government, the more he was convinced they could not man of the Lincoln committee would have moved its ou e e be carred into effect without endangering the naval sion from the schedule. The evidence disclosed only te r e a supremacy of Great Britain. cases of bribery, out of forty six charged ; one • very m a gi Mr. GLADSTONE hoped that his teem hon. friend's el- one, to the amount of hut 10s,, was proved; and could eta ample would be followed on the present occasion, as he him- supposed necessary that there should be another en. self should practise the self-denial of abstaining from enter- mates and another inquiry to find out just the sem mg upon any discussion of the measure. lie could not thing ? The bribery, as it was called, was weed on by blame the government for not persevering at so late a means of" free and easy clubs," which sat before audit/i f period with the bill, but he did hope and expect that at the the taste of the writ ; this was the whole of the case, sad s o . earliest period of the next session, the measure would be thing more would be disclosed by the most searching low,' brought in, as, if it was eleferred, the scene of that evening The real question was whether the treating had been.n e e t ei would be repeated in 1849. He must say he wished the bill with the intent of corrupting the wren. He thought a d had been of a more general nature, and that so large a power much of it would be found resolvable into th hospitality dig had nut been reserved to the Queen in council as was pro- hon. and gallant member had referred to. The tepee of Ms video in the hill about to be laid on the table. lie should committee plainly stated the existence of these clubs at pm. permit the resolution to pass without opposition on the pre- haps half the public. houses in Lincoln; the 'tomes of les settt occasion, with the distinct understanding that he was publicans were given • the fact that bread, beer, pipes, left entirely unshackled as to the course he should take in re- were distributed outsi de the houses to " navvies " &Mother, spirt to it during the next session, was proved beyond doubt ; also that sums were paid to am. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the original intention of resident voters beyond what was necessary for their lon of government was to bring in the bill before Christmae' but ti me; all these things were patent, and what more could!". other more pressing business bad intervened. The right hon. required? The committee reported that, owing to the v agtr gentler, an (Mr. Gladstone) had stated his intention not to ness of the 2001 clause of 5 & 6 Viet, cap. 102, s arimm he bound by his assent to the resolution before the committee, conclusions might be arrived at by committees; and th e y and, at the same time, expensed a wish that it had been con- recommended an alteration of the law in this respect. TM reined in more general termiesuid that less power had been re. hon. gentleman here read the clau-e, and asked if it includes' served to the Quee nin council coact under the proposed bill. refreshments and travelling expenses? No doubt it would he open to the house to discuss, on a The SOLICITOR-GENERAL answered in the afie future occasion, the form of the alteration of the navigation mauve . laws, and he (Lord J. Russell) wished to add, that although Mr. MILES said it had not been so construed by mse the government had wished to introduce a measure in the • mat r tes generally, with whom it rested to decide whether form which bad been proposed, still there was nothing to payment was made to corrupt a voter. More might he don prevent the government considering, during the recess , the simplifying the . law, and defining what was corruption, form in wnich it would hereafter be proposed. The house J anb y sending • host of commissioner. to sceur the reentry, had already, by a large majority, expressed • decided opinion an, find out what was patent to all. (Hear, hear.) in favour of the principle of the government proposition, and lie concurred in the opinion which had been expressed that The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the hon. member hsd the measure must be introduced at the very earliest period opened a discussion which was very fully gone into ma of next session. former occasion, and related rather to the principle of the Mr. 0. It ROBINSON denied that the house had yet bill than to the horoudha which should be placed is to affirmed the principle of the government measure. All the schedule. The house had thought it desirable to haw house had yet done had been to negative the resolution pro- further information, in addition to the evidence taken before posed by way of amendment by the right hon. siencleman she election committees. and hence the necessity tor the in. near him (Mr. Herrin). By • postponenr nt of the measure qa iry proposed by this bill. As to the contention of the till next a salon the noble lord had given the shipping in- 5 & 6 Vict., it was evident that every payment of whatever tercets and those connected with the shipping ports an °peer. kind made to an elector was a et rrup payment; bat to tunity of fully come tering the whole question before the question arose in every case wheels. r the particular payment none was again called upon to dismiss it, and if they did not had been made with the intention of corrupting the vow. make the house acquainted with their wishes on this great Ile hoped that the house, having affirmed the principle of and vital matter, the fault would rest upon tnemselves. A she biil, would not now offer any opposition to Lincoln, the etteng teeiir,g had already been expressed on the question, case against which was a very strong one, being placed ia the for he found, on reference to the report of the committee on schedule. petitions, only 12 petitions with 2,425 signatures had Mr. ANSTEY referred to the report of the Limbs tom been presented during the whole session in favour of the mittee, and said that this bill, so far from carrying out thee government plan, while there had been presented 109 peti- recommendation as to the simplification of the law, set safe tions bearing 49,231 signatures against it. This fact their report altogether, by appointing another esmmiture to answered the ass rtion which had been made by th e b en , go into the game inquiry again. The City of London was member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) that all the shipping situate precisely the same as the borough of H.Tsham; lit ports were is favour of an abrogation of the navigation the noble lord (J. Russell) take this opportunity of de elating laws, and he ( Mr. Robinson) amerced that 19.20ths of those that be was ready to volunteer an inquiry into transudes connects: with the shipping interest were hostile to the of which the world had heard much, and thereby to e ear tit change in the law as proposed by her Majesty's government. own character and that of his constituency. He was It the eoveremeet yielded in that matter to the section of precluded from doing this by the preamble of the press& the house which supported free-trade measures, his (Mr. bill. Common fame add that the last election for the City Robinson's) conviction was that the consequence would be of London was characterised by enormous bribery. treat*, to throw open the whole trade with America and the West and personation. It was said that one thou•and lone shots Lilies to tne United States. men were bribed. That was reportel on credible authority. , Mr. M'GREGOR considered the course taken by the (Name, name.) Those statements had been made by a . government in postponing the hill until next session was a member of that house, and the noble lord had not decree wise and proper proceeding. He also thought that the form them. It was also said that 32,0001. had been spent at the of the resolution might be beneficially altered, and he wished election, and dead men were personated. He did not say that in the interim between the close of the present and the that the noble lore was or was not guilty of corrupt eras commencement of the next session the government would tires, but common rumour reported that enormous bribery , set on foot negotiations with the United States in order to and corruption prevailee at the lest election :or the City °t effect freedom of intercourse between the ports of the United London. A decument was to be handed to him in which i States and those of this country, just as though the former those statements were made, but it miscarried. (Laughter.) . still remained a portion of the British dominions, He was Now, there was no report in the case of the City If Leiden. e also of opinion that a distinct understanding should be come But neither was there any report in the ease of lionlisee to as early as pnesible with the United States. The bribery and corruptien at liorcham rested on muerte Ide. HUDSON wisher: to state a fact for the consideration moue, Red as Horsham was to be included in the schedule, of the government. When their proposition with respect to he wished to know whether the noble lord, on the ISM the navigation laws was announced an immense number of ground, was prepared to include the City of London ? hands employed in shipbuilding at Sunderland had been Lord J. RUSSELL begged of the house to recollect the turned out of employment, but at soon as it was known the circumstances under which he undertook the bill. It hid measure was abendened, at least for the present session, all been urged by several members of the hou-e, but more espy the men had been gradually restored to their employment. Melly by the right hon. gentleman the member for Ts*. Mr. CLAY expressed • hope that when the right hon. entleman at the head of the Board of Trade next session worth, that some member of the government should take charge of the bill. lie had declined to do so !or a considers introduced a new measure, with reference to the navigation able time ; and it was not until toe bill was mate • came it la-es he would show more consider atim in it than had been perpetual delay that he consented to undert ake it . Wbrfee displayed in its predecessors, for the three interests more upon the hon. and learned gentleman thought , hat asbe hat immediate!) concerned—the ehipoaner, the shipbuilder, and undertaken the bill he was • fair subject for attack, sad the sailor. The measure ought also to be accompanied by a made that the ground of • personal charge—(e No, no," from remission of the timber duties; and if this was done ho be. ele. Anstey)—and of a charge against the cm/slime:my hieved the measure would not be resisted. which he represented. (Hear, hear.) Why whatever body Mr. BRIG ILL' said, in answer to what had been stated by he represented, the. hen and learned member would le the hon. member for Poole (Mr. Robinson), that he (Mr. equally able to my that there was a rumors: of corrupt pas. , Bright) had never geld that those interested in ships and in ticea, and would call on him to include that constitutions ports were in favour of the alteration of those laws. What the schedule. (Hear, hear., He denied that because be ,he had said "Vas, that the population in the ports were in undertook the bill at the request of the boast favour of the government plan. and this had been shown at a he was bound to put in the place he rep* public meeting held in Sunderland three or four years ago, tented, whatever it might be, without any cause, Is when they declared in favour of an alteration of the naves'. the schedule, to gratify the curiosity or malignity Many Ali tins law.. He was surprised the hon. member for Sunder. viduel who might call on him to do no. (Hear, Lear.) Hi land (Mr. nucleon), who had done so much to connexion with the City of London began teus: lie Imre increase freedom of communication by railroads, should aented • borough which had elected him more than once hue be opposed to the same freedom by ships and of expense, and left him perfectly independent in has polls merchant vessels; and he celled on the hon. mem- tical course in that house. Whilst he represented the born* bee to exercise on thin question that good common sense of Stroud some thousands of the electors of the City If which he had directed to railroads. and not bind himself up London requested him to steed for the City of Louden, Bs with the political views of the noble lord the member for great public question of protection or free trade hi* tbei Lynn (Lord G. Sentinel). He trusted the government at issue. He stated to them that he had no wish totems would, next *neon, renew the measure with firmness and the constituency he then represented, and that he beliessii determination ; if se, its success in this and the other house would cause a feeling of mortification, and a feeling thither of parliament was certain. had been unfairly and ungratefully dealt with if he left dim Mr. MITCHELL observed, that on a former occasion the fur any other body. At the same time he Id hon. member for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley) had questioned that he would accept the invitation, as the di" the accuracy of certain returns made to the government by sion of the City of London would be o: great imp* Sir E. Wanes, the consul at St. Petersburg. He (Mr. Mit- ance ce, the question of free trade or protection, but did :hell) bad received • letter from Sir E. Baines, in which the election must be carried on without recourse to stied he desired him to acquaint the house that the returns were those amens to which the term of corrupt practices wm furnished by the Resident at the British factory at St. Pe- applied. (Hear, hear.) They stated that they would Oa Leesburg, and that he (Sir E. Baines) had not had, at the time practise any illegal means to carry the election, which diff they were sent off, an opportunity of testing their accuracy. intended should he one entirely of principle.. That declaim Capt. HARRIS was understood to express • hope that in teak place, and he was returned by a majority of aiace the new measure the government would take care to secure (" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp.") Lut year wN the naval service with a euffinient supply of hands, if neces- as •ed him whether he would become • candidate along sow sary, from the commercial marine. three other gentlemen. lie replied that he would staid Mr. RICARDO said he did not wish to open a fresh discus- again, but that he must not be in connexion with 0 7 stun; lee he and those on his side of the house were as zealous others. The elution took place; there was a very herded& for the maintenance of the supremacy of the British navy as test; but ho was elected for the second tile by • very lags the his. and gallant member (C apt. nerds), who on former majority. (Hear, best.) No person that he knew of owe tecasions hail claimed as the patriotism for himself and those plained of the mode in which that election was coothetel, with wheel he acted. Ile had not paid out of his pocket more than was newel Mr. NEW DEGATE asked whether the revolutions now for the legal expenses of the election. If any cerropt Poe' in the halide or the chairman were a true expoeitim of tires had been resorted to, why were not the mama taken* the hill about to be laid on the table, and in accordance with bring themto light ?No management thathe was aware of bed the speech with which the right hon. gentleman opposite been used to prevent an election petition from being Fr (Mr. Labouchere) bad introduced the resolutions to the seated to that house. (Hear, hear.) Having so conducted consideration of the house ? himself he did not thick he was bound to include London is After a few words from Capt. Haxata and Mr. RICARDO the schedule because the hon. gentleman said that some n ' in mutual explanation, moues prevailed. (Hear, hear.) Whether those rumens Mr. LABOUCHERE laid, in answer to the question put prevailed or not he did not know—he heard them only fpm by the hon. member (Mr. Newdegate), he had to reply that the hon. gentleman—(laughter and cheers),—and from ad he ( air. Labouchere) should be guilty of practising a trick body else. (Renewed laughter.) Where the hon. gentle' upon the house if the bill was not in accordance with the man picked up those rumours he did not know. (Heirs resolution and with the speech with which he had brought hear.) He proposed the bill on public grounds, and web*** forward the gut stion. At the same time he did not mean reference to any individual, (" Hear, hear,' from C L I ' to preclude himself from taking advantage during the recess Sibthorp.) He could assure the hon. and gallant ga g "S of such information as he might acquire, and of amending man that he bad no personal feeling against him--(laneen upon it the form of the new meamre. and had no objection that he and his posterity san_ Mr. HENLEY inquired from the hon. member for Brid- represent Lincoln as long as his ancestors bad done. 13 0 port (Mr. Mitchell) whether Sir E. Baines in his comtnuni- having brought forward the bill on public grouch he done.. , cation stated the reports he had furnished were correct or think that he ought to put the City of Leaden in the sebedel l incorrect ? because the hon. gentleman was of opinion that the e , , Me. MITCHELL replied that the letter was silent on represented by the prime minister ought to be itel°"'" Mr. MACGREGOR said he had examined the reports, L that head; but, from the anxiety the writer expensed to be (Hear, hear.) , set right with the house, he (Mr. Mitchell) inferred that Sir Col. SIBTHORP mid he never directly or lodic , B. Baines thought them incorrect, a bei ri be h d t an to y be ma e r . , l an ud d ed t , and had round them correct, with the nee • of ri g ht ' from Tamboff. exception those Mr. W. BROWN regretted that the noble lord dumb* f e r co m ns t i h d e er b ed ll . he th ha e d n bon it worth his while to answer the allegation; of the The resolution was then agreed to, and • bill founded member for You sal. With regard to the nastiness , thereon ordered to be brought in by Mr. Bernal, Mr. Labou- represeated by the hon. and learned gentleman he allele chore, and Lord J. Russell. L'lleau f s ) heard that they were anxious to get a fat goose. ( • CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS BILL. con firming Mr. J. A. SMITH rose for the purpose of con The committee on this bill was then resumed. Mr. BERNALperfectly accurateand t s tatement of the noble WO exec in the chair.elec tion for the respecting the circumstances attending the It was •• , genet that Carlisle be inserted in the schedule. City of London, on which occasion he wee chairman of use . On the motion that Lincoln be added, t o b b e l e r e l f Or r d e . On ki noble lord's committee. Every effort had been mad _ Col. SIBTHORP said he would lot ask • favour of the part and on the art of the other members of the comma' house in behalf of the city he represented, much le the • conducted in such a mance • Been on be- to ensure election tieing and half of himself, as its representative. He to which the hon. the was convinced of would prevent even those rumours purity of the constituency. He had represented th em learned member alluded. twenty yeah ; his brother, father, uncle , greateuneleand ' had talo a • Mr. HUDSON said that if corrupt practises great grandfather had represented them, the latter in 1714; and refuel plans at the London election, the noble lord, P not bin "a fro tlei inq