The Express. — London, England, 1853-03-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT ROUSE OF LORDS.—Tnunsorr, MARCH S. The Loan Ca ANGELI-WI took Ais suit et 6 o'clock. YETI ['IONS PRESENTED. - - - ADIFTSFION or JIMA To P•II,LIAIIENT.—By Lord FE'. ERSHAH, from York ; end the Earl of HAR ROWBY, from • place is Staffordshire ; against the ad mission of Jews to parliament. ReCLINIASTICAL TITLE/1 BILL.—By the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, from a plate in Durham, for the batter •aforcement of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill. BOARD OF INLAND REVENUE. On the maim of Lord MONTIAGLI, a hill to enable the Commissioners of Inland Revenue to dispose of certain pro perty, was read a titAt time. FOREIGN REFUGEES. Lord LYND II U RST gave notice that it was his icten tkin to-raormw (this day) to put a question to the Roble earl at the bead of her Majesty's government with respect to the asylum afforded to f weign refugees in this country. REGIISTRATION OF DEEDS BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR rose to move the second reading of this bid ; and in doing so, he felt that be had a difficult MA imreedlipon him, for he was obliged to ask their lordship.' attention to a measure involving questions of detail, and in its nature not 'err interesting. It such an apology was mispleco.l in any deliberative body, he thought it must be there, for unless he deceived himself, important a. the subject was to all clisses of her Majesty's subjects, there was nodose so deeply interested in the success of this measure as then tended interests of the country. The offcet of it would be, as had been stated by a great autho rity two centuries ago, to add materially to the value of laud, the amount et rent, and the easy transfer of property. Such ass the opinion of Sir Matthew Ilale. After paying fur the purchase of same land, he said he would gladly give another y. ar's perchers' if the vendor could secure hire an absolute title. This bill proposed to put an end to the un certainty of titles He knew it had been said that the measure did not go nearly far enough ; and he had no doubt that g facilities might he given for the transfer of property than the hill proposed, hut he introduced the measure, not because it would effect all that the public very properly wished to have accomplished, but because he believed it to be the most sure and sale foundation on which future Legislation on the subject could rest. Still less did he say that it proposed any change in the mode in which property was now enjoyed; it would still be subject to be leased, mortgaged, settled, and entailed, just the same u bef ire, should this bill become law, the sole objtet of the bill being to render it possible to have • perfectly secure title. (Heir, hear.) Land was • subject matter with which they coull not deal, as with common chattels. If he wanted so sell his watch or his horse, nobody would ask him for a title, the possession itself being c 'moldered suffi cient ; but that was not so with reference to land ; the pos session of land did not prove to whom it belonged. A party might be in possession (Aland, because he held it for six months—or had obtained a lease of it for 21 years—or was the mortgae,ee in possession or the tenant for life. In order to enable • man to sell his land, he must prove that be had the means of transferring it, and making out a title to it. He might be an owner in fee simple, or bold only a limited interest. There might be a settlement on his mar rise, and various inquiries would have to be made running through *great length of time. It might be • question whether he had mortgaged it ; and there might be many cases where a mortgage might exist, although the mortgagee had not a valql title. The present state of the law must neormarily cast on the vendor the necessity of proving a negative. He did not mean to suggest that twee of actual fraud, by which parties lest their estates, were matters of frequent err currency. and he did not believe they were, because at the time of the purchase almost endless inquiries were made, not only as to the title deeds, but as to all possible transactions an.l contingencies that might be behind and' concealed, the disclosure of which might afterwards de-1 feat the title of the purchaser. That he believed to he the real evil which this hill woe calculated to meet. (Hear.) He would now consider the objections to the bill. The Ant, and he believed the greatest, was that it was opposed by his noble and learned friend (Lord St. Leonardo). But great as was the learning and experience of his noble and horned friend, he hardly thought it was a sufficient reason to make their lordships forego a measure which had already received the sanction of that house and the approbation of some of the highest legal opinions is the country. His noble sod learned friend said that the subject was so large that they could not manage it—that it would require an enormous building and an enormous staff of officers, and that it would expose the title-deeds or the copies of them to peat risk. There was a practical testimony given on this point by . Mr. Trevor, the Controller of the Legacy Duty in Somerset House. He bad a registra tion of all the wills in the kingdom, to the amount of about 30,000, which were kept in the garrets of Somerset House, and he stated that be had not the least difficulty in lading any one of them. Besides this, be had over 20,000 wills abstracted, which was • work requiring some thought and attention ; and all this he did with a staff of 70 clerks. He did not see why there should be greater difficulty in having • registration of deeds, properly indexed and capable of easy reference. The want of • proper index was felt to be a great inconvenience in Ireland. The present bill included • system of indexing which gave great facilities for investigation. It was said that the :registration of deeds would lead to an exposure of family transactions. He hardly thought this was an objection at all. bed te meal the views of those who thought it was an objeedsa, a mods was provided is the bill which would enable mimes to keep their secrets from everybody, just in the sets way as persons who bad stock in the funds were enabled to do so. A person trans ferred stock in the name of one or two trustees who stood between him and the public, and in the same way a man might transfer his had. To be sure, as in the ease of stock, them was the dosser of the trustee selling it ; but if there was any saspision of that kind, he could be stopped f. om so doing by adidriges or an inhibition. It was net intended to permit any aids, of this measure, beaus, if notice were allowed It would ors op all the difficulties which registration was latended Is perMA against. (Hear.) He believed that if parties did sat with Is have • mortgage or ectliesnent known—if a perm, tsr fardosee, wished to bestow • Aw Jimmie, and sold to tie party from whom he was raise w monly, "I don't like to have this kneel; dsn'trigistor the transadiss." that it would sot be densoltlasst. whom the parties wee known to and had emiliesco Is sash other. This would also diminish the number of deeds. With regard is the esepesee if Mr. Frees wee ell*, the espy et a deed of two skins tionkt be oaly • few imp, sad prebabisis meromgemont scald be made for tr ansmitting them - the poet. TM first expense would probably ben bat that would be covered by 4a. sa 100,000 EMIL 411. woods* ammo of the deeds, bat la sassy oases Shay maid he oisishood for dd. It was said by ism of the 'womb of the mann that the colludes efts& is Landes maid probably, in times et revolution, hubs tie Ant blew, mod would also expose them to great frisk pees as. If them woos all Oa difficul ties which the apparels olds maws, mall sweat, he did not think thei s m : leery mime lammeralds. In ease of an ebullition of tumult or sivil war the 21 millions of sovereigns in Bask of Ilanisad maid :far outweigh is eMas all the papers or poreboisais la the registry offiss (Saar, hear.) He soseluisd awn the second alba bill. Iwr(ST. LHONARD'S dammed Os bill as a =le gible= didmisa. The very fact that a iissoral register of beds bed bass so dedried by] tech ondsoni persons was a mad of him TM Sae= Mid not be oasis/ sea si lamps moo mu* whisk would cost 1.010,00fi1. or sal that Os Isms of a Isomers meld maks te be rosmard; siblis the general assumes of the slim meld Mat Snit a man a year. It meld sot in the beast odd to the 'soft posparty, but would as tie Mintsmy render many tides.= Meld no t now be isigugssi mandess. The evils spied whisk it was intesdei to ;mud were of extreme rarity, whims thosots which it would give rise would be numerous mad of great gravity. The idea of its shortening abatrastsasibsaveyaneas, or of facilitating the treader of load, was Slikaisus. The only way in which that could be edMd would bo to im prove the low of property , . in which dimities im.sose pro green had been mad' w ithin ate last few years. Indeed the strictly legal expenses of conveyancing were already very moderate. Fifteen estates had been bought for a million pounds, and the whole of the es , exclusive of ad es Jaren stamps, had only been 3, . Lord CAMPBELL defended the bill, and mousestod upon the feet that his noble and learned friend had once viewed all the measures recommended by the preputy lead commissions with alarm, though he had spe ea is their f poe that occasion. He was in hopes of • similar commission with regard to the registration of deeds. After a short conversation, the bill wee read a asceond time, and their lordships adjourned. Lord BEAU MON T was convinced that the bill, as it stood, was a great improvement, but there were some alight altera tions which he should wish to see made iammunialso.Contrall satins had bees objected to ; but he was psoomiol that the lost plan would be to have a *undoes* is Luis& Great objection to this would be nude is some pesos (liftman- try, particaluly in his musty ?aksh km 0 111Lpirliaps something might be done to the 4441 Lord ST. LEONARD'S was asmisniesd be Whist* that he should not divide against the second reading anise bill. Lord BROUGHAM said be approved of the principle of the bill, and was authorised to say that his noble friend, Lord Lyndhurst, who had just left the house, did the same. Hs fr=t it was impossible to throw it out on the woad After • few words from the LORD CHANCILLOI and Lord Sr. LIONALD'II, in explanation, the bill was read a mood time. Lord CLANCARTT postponed his motion on national education is Ireland until Monday. Their lordships adjourned at half-pest 10 Vora. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TurasDAT, MAsen 3. The Braaxaz took the chair at the usual hour. NEW MEMBER. Visdrciat EKLY wok the oath, and hia Nit for Worcester ebbe. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. ADNISOION or iIWI TO PAILLIAIIINT.—My MT. BUCK, hem Didford and Stockbridge ; Mr. TOLLE MACHE, from Morley and Woodcburch, is the county N Chester ; Mr. DAMES, from the district of Comas man, in Carmartbenshire ; Mr. HORSEALL, from the inhabitants of Brairlsford, in the cou of Derby; Mr. SPOONER, frees Babel', county of Warwick; Mr. AD DERLEY, from Sudbury, Staffordshire; Mr. K. KING, from the parishes of Canon Yroome, Dyoedor and Mordi ford, is the county of Hereford; Colonel NORTH, from the perish of Chaetleton, county of Oxford; Mx. CHILD, from St. Thomas's parish Meweop, in the county of Staf ford, end from the parish of Chiddleton, county of Stafford ; against. Horiss-Racrgo.—By Mr. WILLIAMS, from Belfast, ageism granting public money for horse-racing. PARLI AAA NAA RI PAPAS.—By Lord HOTHAM, from Humanly, East Riding of Yorkshire, praying for • supply of. OPINING THS CRYSTAL PALACR ON SUNDAYS: By Mr. K INN AIRD, from the ministers and congregation of the church of St. Alban, Liverpool; Mr. ALCOCK, front Hiuto• Mortal, Dorset, and St. Junes, Clapham; Mr. SPOONER, from workmen, St. Clement's parish, Worcts shire Mr. FEROUSON, from 767 working men of the city of Carlisle, egainyt. Tux OPTICS or EXAMINIR IN CRANCERT.—By Mr. BAINES, from Leeds, praying that solicitors may be eligible for. IlarNoocir.—By Mr. TOLLEMACHE, front the mem bers of Trinity, Birkenhead, against any grant to the College or Maymooth. COUNTY Retyn.—By Mr. H. RUSSELL, from 2,364 ratepayers of the county of Bedford, praying for control over. THE BOSTON ELECTION PETITION. The SPEAKER informed the house that he had re ceived a letter from the agents of the petitioners, stating that it was not intended to proceed with the petition against the return of Mr. B. B. Cabbell, member for Boston. WIOTOWN BURGHS ELECTION PETITION. Sir J. TROLLOPE informed the house that Lord C. P. Clinton, who had been appointed to serve on the select committee on this petition, was unable to attend in conse quence of ill health. Lord Clinton's medical attendant was then called to the bar, and stated in reply to questions from the Speaker, that his lordship had a bronehital affection, which rendered it unsafe for him to attend the committee. NOTICES OF MOTIONS. DERBY ELECTION COMMITTEE. The members rat this committee were called to the table and sworn ; and the committee was appointed to sit at 11 o'clock this da TILE WATER COMPANIES. Lord R. GROSVENOR gave notice that on Monday nest he would ask the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests what course the government meant to pursue with respect to the water hills introduced in the present session. THE SIXMILE-BRIDGE AFFAIR. Mr. NAPIER gave notice that on Thursday, the 17th inst., he would move for the production of the papers wo w eted with this subject, and that it was his intention on the same occasion to take a discussion on the proceedings of the present and of the late government in relation thereto. THE PUBLIC REVENUE. Mr. W. WILLIAMS gave notice that on that day fort • night he would move a resolution declaring that the whole of the public money now received by the revenue depart ment should be paid into the Eschequer. CONVOCATION. Sir J. PAKINOTON said he now rose to put to the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) the three question of which he had given him novice; and, is doing so, he disclaimed the slightest feeling of direspeet, or of anything approaching to disrespect, towards the distinguished prelates to whom his luestions referred ; and he aloe disclaimed the least inten tion to prejudge in any way the important question whe ther or not it was desirable for the interests of the church that the powers of convocation should be enlarged, or that its constitution should be remodelled. He wished to ask the noble lord, Snit, whether the attention of the govern ment had been called to the proceedings of the Upper House of Convocation on the 16th of the last month, which were of a very unusual character, and the legality of which was strongly disputed by 'tome of the prelates who were present ; secondly, whether in appointing a committee to transact business between the sittings of convocation, and to report in August next, the Upper House had actea legally, and whether the committee itself could legally discharge the functions intrusted to it; and lastly, whether it was the intention of the government to take any steps in the matter ? Lord J. RUSSELL said—The hon. gentleman had the goodness to postpone the question to this day, and I am now obliged to ark him again to postpone it. At present I have only to say that the attention of her Majesty's go vernment has been directed to this question, that the law °dicers of the crown have been questioned as ts the legal powers of convocation, and the appointment of a committee to sit after the 16:h of February, but that at prevent the law officers, though they have been in consultation, have sot made any formal report. I must, therefore, defer an swering the question until to-morrow. THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS. Mr. BAILLIE wished to ask the noble lord the ques- tion of which he had given notice. The noble lord was probably aware that the committee then sitting on Indian affairs would not he able to present its report before August; and he wished to ask him whether it was the intention of her Majesty's ministers to legislate for the permanent government of India during the present session, end if so whether he was able to state when a bill for that purpose would be laid on the table. Lord J. RUSSELL said it was the intention of the go- vernment to introduce a bill in the course of the present session for the government of India—he could not say for its permanent government, but it would be for a period named. He was not in a position to state when the bill would be introduced, but due notice would be given. Mr. HUME said several heads of subjects were referred to the committee, and he would like to know whether the government meant to delay bringing in the bill until the inquiry had been completed with regard to all. Lori J. RUSSELL could only repeat what he had already stated, namely, that it was the intention of the government to introduce a bill in the mars* of the present session. asked is a proper tone, they would, no doubt, have been at saes SW were& but the truth was, that the notion of inva des bg the Turks of the Austrian territory was simply ridi =ird could as ver have been serious' entertain -Qh/ thy toverttateat. The Monte ware • Wee, preislhey people, of whose prowess Turks were well were e aad that was probably the must why the Sultan %ad seat a powerful army ia the fleet instance, in order that 1 the war might be brought is • speedy conclusion. The Sultan was quite juatMed in doing so. Montenegro was • Turkish province, and Austria ,could not pretend that it was an independent state. But even if it were, Austria was not the country to battle for the independence of other states. Anstris, that had called Italy • geographical expres sion, and had annexed the free republic of Cracow to its own dominions. And whom bed Austria sent to interfere for the independence of Montenegro ? As if to tutu the matter into a burlesque, the ambassador selected was no other than Count Leiningen, the military go eeeee tof Cracow. As to the removal of Hungarian refugees, these men bad most probably embraced the Mussulman faith. and thus bad ac quired the rights and privileges of the Turks. The Sultan must therefore protect them, but might remove them from the army in Montenegro to conciliate a neighbouring state, • - would } and no - doubt the demand, if properly made, have been met with attention. Austria made another demand, namely, to be the protector of all the Roman catholic* in Turkey. To this, Turkey might an swer that these people wanted no protection. They had full permission, he would not say to read their Bibles, for they did not want to do so, but to have mass solemnised, and to have their processions, even in the streets of Con stantinople. The fact was, hat the Turkish government was the most tolerant in the world, and had permitted the installation of a protestant bishop in Jerusalen. He wished that protistants, catholic*, and Greeks, could be brought to act towards one another as the Turks acted towards all Christians. (Hear, hear.) It might be said they were tolerant now because they were weak ; but not so. When they took Constantieople they did not expel the con quered rate as eatholics did in Spin; and when they took Jerusalem their first act was to protect the holy sepulchre, round which the most disgraceful battles took place constantly between different sects of Christians. New they were harassed by the meet intolerant power in Europa I —Austria, who had put thousands to death on religious' pounds in the different countries subject to her rule. Hie• tory told how she acted in the Low Countries and Bohemia. That protestantism was not exterminated in Hungary they might thank the Turks, who, during the 160 years they ruled in that country, allowed protestants the free exercis of their religion. But no one supposed that these pretences had any sincerity in them—some hidden motive was urging Austria onward in her tyrannical and impolitic miner. It was not many years since Austria had demanded the Hungarian refugees from the Turks—the refugees who fled from Hungary —in order that she might slake bee vengsaises on them, and Turkey bark. sesiMall *me demeeds, the present vindic degrees war es 4ist emeent. Turkey had not coin ed when Austrian armies marched over her terr Tory, pursued by the brave old Beni. He wanted W kaow, and for that reason had made the pre matthelion, how the government of this country looked at Oboes fetters? He hoped the house would hear some ex patiations on these matters, because these were not days when secret diplomacy could be expected to give satisfaction. Let the world know whether England held the same *pinion as formerly . respecting the necessity of upholding Turkish independence. He believed that we were bound to adhere to our ancient policy by treaties, by honour, and by policy. If we did not uphold that independence some great power would get possession, and then the equilibrium of Europe would be destroyed. If Austria and Russia got possession of Turkey, between them where would be religious toleration? Then, Inking at the question in a commercial point' of view, It was of the utmost importance to the trade of this coun cils maintain the authority of the Sultan. Our com merce with Turkey had quadrupled within the last twenty pears, while that with Russia had only doubled, and that with Austria had actually diminished. Turkey was ex ceedingly liberal in commercial matters, while Russia sod Austria were both exclusive. Did any one think, either, taking religious grounds, that there would now be as English protestant bishop at Jerusalem If Austria were the ruling power there ? (Hear, hear.) A good deal had been said about " ancient allies," but the fact wee, that Austria was the most modern power in Europe, and our ancient alliance of Marlborough's times was with the Em peror of Germany. The fact was, that but one-fourth of the Austrian empire was in Germany, the remainder being in other countries, and all in disaffection. Never more in Hungary would they hear the cry, [Mona:nue pro Reg, is:argio. In they bad iOt forgotten the murders incited by Austrian intrigues. and Italy was one vast scene of murmur and desolation. It appeared that Austria was animated by an exceedingly inimical spirit towards this country, and wherever she had influence there was reason to complain of the conduct pur sued towards British subjects, as In Saxony, Verona, and other places. It had been the fashion to attribute the con duct of Austria in this respect to the noble lord now at the ►ead of the Home-dace, but that that was not the ease was evident in the fact that many of the occurrences to which he alluded had taken place after that noble lord left the Foreign-office. (Hear, hear.) Then it could not be for gotten that Austria refused to send a deputation to attend the funeral of the Duke of Wellington, though she owed her independence in a great measure to bis exertions. The two men who had done more than all else to save Austria were Wellington and Sobieski, and to both she had evinced gran ingratitude. He trusted the question would not be treated as one of party, for the maintenance of the inde pendence of Turkey was a subject which ought to interest every Englishman. Turkey having listened to our coun sel, sad refused to do what was demanded of her by Austria sad Russia, in the cahoot the Hungarian refugese,.,aysit net TURKEY AND MONTENEGRO. now be left • prey to the feelings et which that Lord D. STUART roe, in purr ance of notice, to call refusal had awakened. With regard to thedismemberment the attention of the house to the affairs of Turkey, as at of Turkey, if it were never so mach to our interest (and he Acted by the contest now pronediag in Montenegro. He could not understand how it could be to our interest, seeing said ao man could read the amenste of what was passing in that we had already all we required, viz., a free passage the Not without feeling *bet et OM mime the indepen- through Egypt to India), to consent to the partitioning of dente and the integrity add Tumid* empire, which had Turkey would be to cast aside all obligations of good faith' , been regarded by suiseadmi guernmeneein this country as and of treaties, and to re-enact scenes such ea from 1772 to t objects, were in immineatemser. (Hear, hear.) 1795 existed in Poland. He nutted, therefore, that if any heard of large mimed Austrians en the frontier of power entertained such • design it would be checked by 7, is WO direedenj they head of three corps ap- England, and he had no doubt that that good understand peni*mtlibefroadat rower dimities j and they were sag which he was happy to hear the other night existed Uhl el huge& of VISII•OS kinds eildesesed by the between this country and France—whose interest in the woe, peva of Male and /tad" es the Seblime maintenance of Turkish independence was as great as our )Matra, Ix berme the meet peremptory, an ultimatum being own—would make the carrying out of that policy compare shied which was to be mmerered is a few days. It ap- tively easy. He was aware that an opinion prevailed in %mai thee me of the ealbjesta which bed given rise to some minds that as the Christie° population of Turkey these proonikope INS Ihe p web of the small pro- increased the present state of things must come to an end. vim, or pot se a porbee, coned ; • cottony But we could not look into futurity. And, in the event of se mall 111 oaten es is populaties, that, under other nr- very much as he was now alluding to taking place, it Senaoces, it might &met be deseribed as a geographical would be our duty to take care that the Turkish territory nen. kbetnagre, as the bon know, 1/011 • mull die - was not divided amongst those powers who had shown so extesibe gent Illudbm i ke lessidi 35, with little regard fee the religious or the civil rights of their t=tiest el save 110,000seekwm deeded in a own people. In conclusion, the noble lord moved for the ea the Nast emu of the Adriatic, and was production of copies of any communication between the The inhabitants were half bar- Austrian and Turkish governments, and the government of bese al it il h a T l l .l.lll = ll6 besa distinguished for their bravery. Great Britain in reference to the affairs of Montenegro. Tlde ommit al ikailbs pen el the provisos of Albania, was (Hear, hear.) Veadisse by the Turks in 1478 ; and Mr. M. MILNES seconded the motion, and described ••• MI6 In 1629, and the other in 1718, the situation of Montenegro, and its importance to whatever bolues• Melia awl Turkey, and between Venice and power might possess it, in consequence of the excellent har- Turkey, bob peemetedi by the mediatorof England and bourage afforded in the Bay of &uterine. It was a sin/m -idland, defined the boundaries of Montenegro, and placed lac circumstance ricansetrA with the history of this torri d within the Turkish territory. In 1791 there was another tory, that it had been often ceded by treaty between treaty entered bite between Austria and Turkey, under the foreign powers which had no right in it, either by mediation of England . Holland, and Prussia, which not conquest or podeasion. No doubt it belonged to Turkey duly left Montenegro still • part of Turkey, but in express more than to any other power, but he believed the Porte tenas declared the Montenegrins subjects of the Porte. would never have interfered with the Montenegrins had Sam that time there had been no treaty between Austria they kept themselves to themselves, and not carried on • end Turkey which could in any way affect the matter. It systematic course of robbery or plunder towards the other reillio tree, that the Montenegrins had, at various times, subjects of the Porte in Dramatis. Still, for more than 100 to lemon, and had in some degree enjoyed, their years, the authority of Russia bad been acknowledged in but they had always bun under the raze- Montenegro and the Montenegrins had on several oda- Italet the Portal and no treaty had ever been entered dons placed themselves under the protection of the y Austria which at all affected that suzerainty. The Czar. He thought it would have been well if English and treaty of Vienna in 1815 defined the limits of Austria, and French diplomacy at Constantinople had prevented the it left Montmartre, as it was before, in the Turkish erapire. march of the Turkish army to Montenegro, and he had no The attempt of the Montenegrins to render themselves bode- doubt had Lord Stratford de Radcliffe been at Constanti pendent of Turkey was made under very peculiar circuit- nople at the time means would have been taken to convince stances. Montenegro was governed in a very peculiar way, the Montenegrins that they would receive under the Porte namely, by a bishop, and the authority of this bishop was that liberty as a Christian nation which other Christian hereditary in • way that was equally peculiar. As the communities in Europe under the dominion of Turkey en- Greek bishops were not allowed to marry, and ofeourse joyed. Whether the papers for which his noble friend had could have no bees--(a laugh)—the right to rule mar the moved could be produced he thought was doubtful at pre country ilsomoded met hem father to see, but hem mule to met, but he hoped the government would cam* forward nephew. The We %asp, or Vladika t _lavag died lest year and declare that they considered it their duty to protect the the authority develveffealis nephew, PeinseDuiel, amend Christian provinces of the Porte from the invasion of either about 30, Who it appeared had an adee to be a deep. Austria or Russia, sad that our diplomacy at Constanti- The noiorpiscopars it would ametter, hail aster hem mere nople supported, as he had no doubt it would be, by the earnestly or sincere ly said by 1110 mere 4•lMilatilos of our ambassador ft* France • man well known in and mast protestant divines. ith that new he possedei In St.Petere- friendly to England, would be directed to that object. burgh to consult the Cur, and that mode ar madam might The question having been put from the chair, appear very natural to those who, like Lord Xekembery, Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said—Mr. Speaker, I trust fell into the blunder that the Czar was the bled of the my noble friend who has brought forward this question Greek &arch. The fact was that the Reimer of Russia will not think it necesesry to press for the papers for which was ad heed of the Greek church, bat merely of its fol- be has moved, inasmuch as the negotiations on the 'object boon ideas his own dominions. The real - bead of the have not yet arrived at a termination. I will, however, One 'batik was the Patriarch of Constantinople. It was endeavour shortly to follow him on the subject to which he mid that the prime, while at St. Petenburgh received ad- professed in his notice to call the attention of the house, ohs from the wry highest quarter to resist the an- vex., the affairs of Turkey es affected by the contest which therity of the heltaa. However that might be, it was is now going on in Montenegro. (Hear, hear.) In the melesis that isemediately after his return, these dinar- first place let me say that I agree in the general principlesl IMMOOD. which bill led to the present complications, broke laid down by my noble friend, that this country ought to ml,ami She memit of the Turkish army was nece ssitated. be especially anxious to maintain the independence and in -18 du added, that the Cm, having given this advice to the levity of Turkey. (Cheers.) Turkey has long formed an Thrift sionory advice to the Sultan, through his important part of the European county of nations, and its' Clenstantinople ; thus following the usual independence and integrity as a nation has been repeatedly tatty pair of Zara* which was to sow disunion and die- confirmed by treaty, and was sanctioned by a convention eactim ammo asishboaring powers. So it had been in of the general powers not longer ago than 1840. (Hear, Poland, sod so maw sustly in Hungary, when the Aue- hear.) I trust that independence may long be maintained, Maas were lOpOINO•01 is the worst possible light, and the for I own I could not conceive any greater calamity be. Russian army WI tip as the saviours of the cowl- falling Europe at this time than the necessity of try. But the Nuatoorgrba, supposing them to have considering what should be done in such a use eassived this advice, soon acted on it, and commenced as the dismemberment of the Turkish empire. Ifithe the no' hbouring Turkish provinces, and, by night (Loud cheers.) I have seen therefore with pain, the speen the garrison of Zabljek, put them all lations that have been recently put forth in some quarters The masa saw that this state of things must on this subject. (Hear, bear.) In my opinion you could begat an ad to, sod esserdingly sent an army to the spot, not attempt the dismemberment of Turkey by force or by eiliM am aimmand if Omer Puha, the most distinguished diplomacy, without committing a great crime and a viola diendeuller in the Turkish army. It was said that this lion all the laws which bind nations—(heer, bear)—and Qom Puha was • renegade from the Austrian army. But I trust there is no Englishman who wishes to be a party to that was not the fact, as he had come to Turkey at a very any such transactions, in regard to Turkey, as those which nely had bees brought up there, and had distinguished accompanied the partitioning of Poland. (Much cheering.) la the la Kurdistan. Well, this army If, however, it should so happen that Turkey should fall to lanai eamobed, ii Austrian ambassador made some pieces of her own weakness, then there might be a question estroordinary dam mss at Constantinople. Among arise of very great importance ; but for my own part it sp atter things, be IMplained of the appearance of so pears to me a question of such great gravity, that I cannot bop ea mug due mon the Austrian frontier. He de- contemplate such an event happening, without feelings of mobil rammer that eh rinegerians in that army should the deepest interest and apprehension. (Hear, hear.) I bet dimelleed, and ase to cession of two maritime points am afraid, looking at the position of the different powers, within the Turkish territory. These demands were made that it would not be possible to provide for such an event, la the meat peremptory tone, and gave the Turkish go- without producing in Europe • preponderance which would VOMMIIIIII bat live days to reply to his ultimatum. It was arouse the oppcsition of all the other powers, and such quite reemeable that explanations should have been de- a state of anarchy in Asia, as it is fearful to contemplate. =Med emportieg Omer's army; and if they had been (Hear, hem.) On the grounds then of the obligations of tinned. In the coarse of these negotiations we ham been is constant communication with the French government; and I am happy to my that, except as regards oar unfortu nate question, In which we are not so much interested— that relating to the holy places—that government has acted in perfect concurrence with our own. (Cheers.) Lord D. STUART, after the declaration of his noble friend, would withdraw his motion and not press for the papers in question, trusting that nn a future occasion, when all negotiation was concluded, he might be allowed to renew his motion. . . international law, the stipulations of treaties, and the good faith we bath always and generally expressed, we are bound to !maintain the entirety of Turkey, as a great and ruling point of English polity. (Cheers.) In regard to the trsasactions which have lately occurred, I will state to the house,without going into the particulsn of the negotiations, the general outline of what has taken place with respect to Montenegro. I will not enterinto the question as to the other powers. bat as to the relations between Austria and Turkey, I think I am in a position to give some ex planation to the house, and I will proceed to do so. (Hear, hear.) The little territory of Montenegro has been, as my noble friend has described, long inhabited by a very hardy race of mountaineers belonging to a branch of the Christian church, but certainly deviating, to • considerable extent, from Christian precepts—for it has been their habit and custom not on to permit, but to encourage, robbery and the p illage of their neighbours, and to enrich themselves by these means. But for a long time, though acknowledged by the treaty of Charlowits and some other subsequent treaties, the last of which was the treaty of Sistowa—though acknowledged by those treaties to be under the sovereignty of Turkey, the Montenegrins have for a long time enjoyed a do facto independence ; and that independence appears to have been acknowledged by Russia. But there is this difference between the relations of Austria and Russia in regard to Montenegro, that while Austria has at all times, and up to the present day, acknow ledged that Montenegro was subject to Turkey, the Russian government does not appear to acknowledge any such claim on the part of the Sultan of Turkey, but has treated Mon tenegro as an independent State. For a long time, the bishops of Montenegro, who have combined in themselves both the ecclesiastical' and the civil power, have been ac customed to resort to St. Petersburgh to the Russian patriarch, to obtain investiture, instead of to the patriarch at Constantinople, or any other patriarch of the Greek Church of equal or superior authority ; and on the occasion of the death of the late bishop, who is described as having been a very remarkable man, hit nephew went to St. Petenburgh, as has been stated by my noble friend, to consult the emperor, to whom he declared that he did not wish to take upon himself the ecclesiastical state, that his friends and fellow countrymen of Montenegro were willing to acknowledge him as their :chief without his assuming spiritual function, and that he proposed to rule the Monte negrin people as an independent King, and that another person should become Bishop of Montenegro. To this arrange ment the Emperor of Russia appears to have lent a willing ear, and according to the statements of the Russian govern ment, dismissed him with wards of civility and kindness, advising him at the same time to restrain his people from pillaging, and to live at peace with his neighbours. However, that young chief did not appear to have profited by that advice, for we soon hear of attacks made by the people of Montenegro, of villages and property destroyed, and the inhabitants killed by rrsons who called themselves subjects of Montenegro. The Turkish government deter mined to meet these aggressions, and to punish those who had been guilty of them ; but in doing so they adopted the plan of attempting the complete conquest of Montene gro, and for that purpose raised a very lawn force of 60,000 men, and placed at its head a very able chief, Omer Pasha, who is supposed to have promised the Sultan utterly to subdue what he called the rebellious part of his domi nions. It appeared to the governments of France and Eng land that this step was imprudent on the part of the Po:te. In the first place, considering the state of his financial rc 'agrees, and considering also the state of his military resources, such a proceeding would be accompanied by a great drain on those resources, and was in itself an act not justified by precedent. It in the next place appeared probable (as was stated by my noble friend who seconded the motion) that the destruction or utter subjugation and the probable doing away of a great portion of the 100,000 inhabitants of Montenegro, would excite the alarm of the neighbouring Christian districts, and might lead to • reli gious war. Accordingly representations were made, and friendly advice given to the Sultan not to attempt this ex pedition on so large • scale, by Lord Derby's government, and repeated by me when I held the seals of the Foreign Office. I believe that the French, acting on the same views, gave similar advice. However, the expedition proceeded. I will not enter on the discussion of the military operations, but the next important point we had to consider was the mission of Count Leiningen to the Porte. It is evident that, whatever were the intentions of Austria, from the first oommunication made by the Austrian minister to us, that Count Leiningen was instructed to lay the demands of Austria before the Porte in • peremptory manner; and while on the one hand, if those demands were complied with, friendly intercourse between the two nations would be re-established with the same cordiality as formerly prevailed, on the other hand it was not concealed that very grave consequences would follow a refusal. Her Majesty's government, on hearing what those demands were, thought it prudent to re quire a frank explanation from the Austrian government. We communicated the views we have always held of the policy of maintaining the independence and the in tegrity of 'Turkey ; and we pointed out the danger of anything like a menses to Turkey, and the consequence of a collision between the forces of the two empires. I mast say that the explanations we received from the Austrian government showed that whatever she might thint of the necessity for making those demands at the present time, Austria was actuated (and if this I received assurance to which the utmost credit is due) entirely by a desire to maintain the independence of Turkey, and to maintain those amicable relations which have so long subsisted. The demands made were various ; but, with respect to Montenegro, those demands did not depart from the terms of the treaties to which I have referred ; nor did they depart, as might have been expected, from a power which has always shown respect to the international law of Europe, from any principles which might not be justified by that international law. It was said that Montenegro belonged Ss jury to Turkey, but that for • long time the independence of those mountaineers had not been disturbed, and that a large army in that country would disturb the frontiers of Austria, that many persons would take refuge over those frontiers, that it would be difficult to maintain tranquillity, and that Austria would be compelled to have a large force there la order to maintain tranquillity in her own dominions; and besides it was stated how imminent was the danger of a re ligious war, which would be the greatest danger of all. We wished, therefore, that while Turkey did not depart from the maintenance of her title, and at the same time punished acts of pillage on her territories, that she should still look to the "quasi" independence which Montenegro has hitherto preserved. With regard to two portions of those territories," Klock and Suttorina, demands were made by Austria of very complicated nature. These two portions of the Montenegrin territories were intermingled with the terri tories of Austria, and were so intermingled because one of them formerly beleaged to the republic of Ragusa, and the other was a portion of the territory given to Austria by the treaty of Vienna, as forming a part of the republic of Venice. Austria has always said that the possession of this inter mingled territory by mother power was inconvenient, and in 1832 and 1833 she endeavoured to obtain by pnielmesthe sovereignty of those small territories from Tomboys bed having failed to accomplish that, she hee 'Mimed She erne rights with respect to them as bedewed ft the Veneffign republic ; and that, while the laa4 &WI be een sidered the property of Turkey, there should be no ae• tempt to carry on any trade and intercourse with the opposite shore, and that Venice should always be kept free frees such intercourse. I do not my that Austria is well founded in them allegations, but I have only mete. tinned them in order that the house might be aware of the nature of the demands made by Count Leiningen. Another complaint is made by Austell', and that is that Zsigerima refugees who remained in Turkey from the time thee the war in Hungary ceased were not only oounMenmeell Turkey, but allowed to serve in the army of Omer Pashe s and hold distinguished poets in that army, and that the at. teotion of Austria was necessarily called to that fad. With respect to the refugees, it seemed to be the revival of the question that the Turkish government, when it pen mitted the Hungarian refugees to leave Turkey, were bound to give wane explanation as to why they had not been kept in that country. Added to these demands, there were various questions with regard to wrongs dons to Austrian subjects, for which no redress had been afforded, and he which the Austrian government demanded reparation cal compensation. Such is the general nature of the deeedede which Count Leiningen was desired to lay before the es vernment of the Sultan. I cannot say that there is any em• of them which affects the independence of the Sultan, and which is not founded en some allegation of the Austrian government which might apply to a government not un friendly to Turkey. lam not able to give any information exactly as to the result. The demands were placed before the Turkish government, which was occupied in consulta tion on them for some days, and we hear from our ambas sador at Vienna that the Austrian government is satisfied, that the mission of Count Leiningen has been successful, and that the negotiations are at an end. With respect to the other questions to which my noble friend has inciden tally alluded, I do net think that any farther purpose would be gained by my entering on them. There are, un fortunately, questions pending of vital importance to the Turkish Empire. It has been hitherto, and will be for the future, our course throughout these proceedings to give advice to Turkey which we think is calculated to promote the maintenance of her honour and independence, and, at the same time, not expose her to the rude shock of warlike encounter. No man has better than Lord Stratford en forced the opinion that the good government of the Chris tian subjects of the Porte should be confirmed by regular laws, and that the maintenance of a system similar to that of European communities should be adopted and enforced by the Porte, and that he ought to give his Christian subjects no reason to complain of their having to live under a sove reign not of the same faith as themselves. This much is perfectly practicable; and it is quite possible for Turkey, discarding the notions of earlier times of conquest when she obtained possession of those provinces, to give to her christian subjects as good government as is ob tained by them from the sovereigns of the neighbouring states. If Turkey will conduct herself in that way, and will take friendly advise from the ambas sador who is now proceeding to her capital, I need hardly say that Turkey will always find a faithful ally in Great Britain. We can have no other object but • friendly one. We want none of her provinces, and we have no wish to possess any of her territories or power. Our interest, in common with that of all the powers of Europe is, that Turkey should be maintained in her integrity and governed is such a manner as to prevent her being visited by insur rection, or exhibiting such internal weakness and dissen sion as are too often the strongest temptation to a foreign foe to become her aggressors. I trust that the other powers of Europe entertain similar views to our own. (licar, hear.) Many dangers have air ady paged ' away, and 1 have the strongest confidence that, as regards any dangers which may yet exist by friendly negotiation and a reasonable consideration of theta, such questions as may remain unsettled will be aarought to a peaceful conclusion, and that the maintenance of the present territorial position of Europe may be con- Triem •- •tion wu then withdrawn. JUDGES IN PARLIAMENT. Lord HOTHAM rose to wive for leave to bring in a hill to disqualify certain judicial officers from sitting sod voting in the House of Commons. The noble lord stated that on a former occasion he had abstained from bringing in a bill to disqualify the Judge of the Admiralty Court from sitting in that house while that judge was member for the Tower Hamlets, and a similar feeling had deterred him from bringing forward the present measure while the Master of the Rolla occupied a seat in the house ; but as he ne longer was a member, he had brought it forward, and he hoped the house would acquiesce in an extension of the existing system of exclusion of official officers from that house, who might properly be described as judges of the superior courts. Lord PALMERSTON said he should offer no opposition to the bringing in of the bill, of course reserving to the go- vernment to take such course as they thought fit on the second reading of the bill. The motion was then agreed to. IMPORT DUTIES. Mr. HUME then rose on the motion of which he had given notice —" That it appears, by returns on the table of the horse, that there are 23:1 entries in the Custom-house tariff list of foreign manufactured articles charged in the year 1851 with duties of import, varying in amount from one to fifty per cent. on the value of such articles, and such articles may be classed under five schedules or lists, via., producing in Schedule. Import Duty. No. 1 each article pro• 129 articles producing clueing under the aggregate £lOO of duty sum of £2,349 2 600 .... 37 3 1,000 .... 17 4 6,000 .... 30 6 100,000 .... 20 • 343,4.59 No. 233 and Duty £434.154 Also, that there are entries in the Custom-howl tariff of foreign agricultural produce charged with import duties, varying in amount, and these articles may be classed under six heads or schedules, namely, in Schedule. Import Duty. No. 1 each article pro- 2.5 articles producing during under the aggregate £lOO of duty sum of £3B2 2 600 .... 8 3 1,000 .... 4 4 5,000 .... 11 6 100,000 .... 12 6 500,000 .... 2 No. 62 and Duty £916,435 That whilst the agricultural produce of wheat, barley, oats, and other grain, and oxen, sheep, goats, and other animals are admitted duty free to compete with similar productions of the United Kingdom, it is both impolitic and unjust to the country, and to the agricultural interests especially, to continue duties of import on articles of foreign manufac tore of the same kind and class with those meant ictured in the United Kingdom, as by these protective duties on imports the fair competition of foreign manufactured arti cles with the articles of British manufacture is prevented. That this house will, at an early period, take into ita consi deration the duties that are strictly protective in the exist ing tariff on articles of import into this country, both of manufactures and agricultural produce, with the view of speedily repealing the same, as at fecting unfairly every interest in the country." He said those who had attended to the progress of free trade principles would recollect what took place in 1840, when, in a committee of that house, he had the oppor tunity of bringing forward in that house a mass of evidence so strong and so triumphant to the view he took of the mani fold advantages which would arise from the removal of the restrictions sad monopolies which then existed. It would be recollected that the revenue had declined for two or three years, and that they had a deficiency of two millions and a half a year. An attempt was made, by adding 6 per cent. to the customs and excise, to supply that deficiency. On that occasion he made the same proposition that was made the other night, that a tax should be laid on the descent of real as well as personal property, hut that proposition was not carried. The result of the additional 5 per cent. on customs and excise was, that the revenue suffered instead of gaining, except as regarded the assessed taxes. A large majority of the house was now in favour of free trade. For his part he should like to see the custom-house abolished altogether. The trade of the couatry would be enor mously benefited by it; and he thought the time would come when that would become • serious question. At the present moment all he asked was to carry out free trade by removing the various protective duties which were yet left. They had removed the duties on the produce of agriculture, and what was the price of mutton and beef and corn at this moment ? Fully higher than before free trade was brought into operation ; and what was more, they had the satisfaction of high prices, with a contented population. He only wanted to carry out the principle. There were duties on 2 2,33 articles connected with manufacture, the amount raised by which was only 434,1641., and there were 6t articles of foreign agricultural produce, 25 of which produced each under 1001. of duty, and the whole 62 produced only 916,4351., including the shilling duty on grain, which was a tax, but was not in tended to be. This was according to the return of 1850. He considered it unjust to the agricultural interest to open the door to every article of their produce, and not to carry out free trade completely with regard to every other article. They were promised that at the time of the repeal of the corn laws. There was a duty on cotton manufactures, and it had been thrown in the teeth of the cotton manufacturers that there was this duty, but it was absurd to maintain such a duty, which produced only 42,0791., while the value of our exports of cotton manufactures, yarn, and hosiery, was upwards of 28,000,0001. Sir Robert Peel removed the excise duty on glass, but there was retained an import duty which acted as a protective duty. He had taken the trouble of ascertaining the price of glass in neighbouring countries. Ho had taken Belgium. The piece of glass he held in his hand was three quarters of an inch thick, and the house would be surprised to find that the import duty on it was 50 per cent. Window glass was charged 3s. Bd. per cwt. 100 square feet, at the avenge price in Belgium, would cost 13s. The duty at the present time amounted to 275. Gd., and if the glass were of a thickness which would fit it for conservatories, and be thick enough to withstand a storm of bail, the price of 100 square fist in Belgium would be 16s. Gd. and the imoort duty in this country would be 255. Then taking cut glue. Glass tumblers were charged a duty of Id. each, and small as that might appear, it was 40 per cent. on the price of common tumblers. On flint cut glass the import duty was 2d. a lb., and on tumblers the duty amounted to 65 per cent. Another item to which he would call attention was the leather manufacture. On men's and women's boots, shoes, and various articles in that category, there was a duty of 9,0001., and the effecgof it was to prohibit competition. He submitted that this also ought to be removed. The duty on linen produced 4,6701.; and what necessity could there be for it when our exports under that head were worth 4,000,0001.1 Wool was in a similes position to linen. The duty amounted to 13,0001., and the value of our exports was between eight and nine millions. He now came to agricultural produce. The articles comprised under that head required the serious consideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He maintained that on the same principle that they admitted oxen, sheep, and other animals, they were bound to admit butter, cheese, and eggs. Let the duty be entirely removed, and he was quits sure the home producer would have no cause to grumble. He could not understand why agriculturist, should desire to see castaway seeds, carrot seeds, clover seeds, and so on, subject to a duty; and as to grass seeds, the tendency which there was to lay down land for pasture was strongly in f of the remission of the duty. From tallow they received 28,0001. He knew it might be objected here that when that house formerly reduced the duty the Russian government imposed a duty to an equivalent amount; but this country was no longer at the mercy of Russia, now' that she could loot for an ample supply from her Austra lian colonies. One great object which he had in view was to place all classes, including of course, agriculturists, on the same footing. (Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer might say that he could not afford these remissions, but he (Mr. Hume) having full confidence is free trade, believed that no inconveni ences would follow. Let them look at the past. Between 1824 and 1829 duties were reduced to the amount of 7,319,0001. ; yet such was the elasticity of the revenue, that at the end of that period the diminution of revenue amounted only to 2,713,0001. (Hear, hear.) In the nine years from 1842 to 18.51 there was a remission of 10,251,0001. ; and in the same period 9,600,0001. was made up through the elasticity produced by the removal of taxstion. (Hear, hear.) Now, he asked the house to affirm that it would at an early period take into consideration those duties which were strictly protectii e, with a view to their repeal. If they were to lave free trade, let it be fairly carried out. (Opposition cheers.) Ho was an humble instrument in forcing free-trade through that house; but he must say, that he thought the agriculturists had been badly treated with regard to all these duties, which await to have been repealed simultaneously with the repeal of the corn laws. (" Hear, hear," from the Opposi tion.) It was not his fault that it did ait take place, and he believed that if Sir Robert Peel had remained in office another year, he would have swept them all away. It had often been said that the interest of the landlord and of the farmer were the same. He did not thiuk so. He had often endeavoured to persuade the farmer to regard himself as a manufacturer, and to show him that it was his own in terest to obtain everything at the most reasonable rate ; and it was for the sake of farmers, as well as other classes of society, that he sought the remission of this 1,300,0001. What he wanted that evening was an assurance from the govern , meat that they would carry out free-trade completely. The hon. member concluded by moving his resolutions. Mr. MITCHELL, in seconding the motion, regretted that the duty on wood had not been included. In his opi nion the matter should be dealt with during the present ses sion. Colonel SIBTIIORP could inform the ban. member for Montrose that old birds were not to be caught with chaff. (A laugh.) The hon. member having done everything to injure the farmer—having now almost cut him up—he offered to be his physician, and presented this black draught for his acceptance. They had now got a Chancellor of the free-trade class; but he (Col. Sibthorp) hoped he would not THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 4. 1853. he led away by the arguments of th e h on . me m - mber fm M --... on. MM. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was a odebted to the gallant colonel fo r hi s favourable aeticipet4 tion ; the more so, as he recollect e d th at not many ye a" past the gallant colonel had exercised hi s w i t and humou r on him (air. Gladstone) respecting f ree t ra d e in a manrr that was highly amusing. It was ou au °melee, whe n er President of the Board of Trade, it wa s hi s d uty to introduceasa bill legalising the exportation of mechinery,and the Reliant colonel said he must object to the Lill for the exportation of machinery, but would gladly support one f ur the e spe tation of the l'resideat of the B oar d of Trad e. (Laughter.) He merely mentioned this to show with what consistency the gallant colonel held to all his opinions, Before alluding to the motion of his h on . f r i en d the member fur Montrose, he must refer shortly to what had fallen from the hon. member for Bridport. The hon. filmier was ua. der the impression that he (tho Chancellor of the Etehe quer) had stated in answer to the hon member for Derby that no bills contemplating customs reform were to be intro- duced during the present session. Now, he had understood the hon. memberfor Derby's question to refernot to customs reform generally, but to the constitution of the hoard of Customs, and he had consequently detailed what had been done respecting that constitution. Ile stated that he wee not prepared to say when a bill referring to that subject would be brought in, but as to customs reform generally, he said that a treasury minute would be prepared and Isid on the table, and, as to the preparation of a bill, there was no question asked, and therefore there could he no answer. As to the motion of the hon. member for Mon. twee, he seemed to offer the government fair terms. Tn e hon. member had stated that, if his principle were accepted, be would not press for the adoption of his motion. New, he (Mr. Gladstone) had objected to its adoption because he was of opinion that the house should not touch the stand. log revenue until it had decided what were to be the ex penses of the country. The hon. member said that if his duties were repealed the money would not all be lost, and that if it were we could well afford it. Ho v did the hon. member know that ? If he would take the trouble of putting the estimates together lie would lint that we were not in a condition to lose much in the way of revenue. But he objected more to the form of the motion than to its prin ciple. He did hope that the house was not going to adopt the practice of living on the credit of fair professions. His wish was that the people should judge of them, not by their promisee, but by their works. (Hear.) Having said thus much for the motion, he could not find in the arguments by which it had been supported anything to which he (Mr. Gladstone) could offer the slightest °him. ' tion. The hon. member was for the removal of the re mainder of the protective duties. Ile was not there to dis pute the propriety of that opinion. He should have ventured to hope that it was now passed the stage of dis cussion, and had become one of the elementary truths upon which all fiscal action should be timed. With respect to the minor duties, it appeared from his hon. friend's fi gures that there were 213 articles falling under the denomination of foreign manufactures, of which the total annual protium in duty was only 91,0001., and R agricultural productions upon which the duty was only 35,001. It was for the house to consider whether it would be desirable to retain so un productive a set of duties. (Hear.) It., would, if possible, get rid of all nominal duties, and he knew it was the opinion of other members of the government. In 184.5, the government took the duties off a moiety of these articles and since then his (Mr. Gladstone's) opinions had under gone no alteration. But, whether as regarded protective or minor duties, he need not take up the time of the house in canvassing the arguments of his hon. friend, because he entirely concurred in them from first to last. (Hear, hear.) Having stated, then, why he thought it would be inconve nient to pass • resolution which was something in the na ture of as promise, he thought he could not do better than simply adopt all his hon. friend's et-gum/ate He looked upon the removal of all protective duties as an act of simple justice to agriculture, and of all duties ou food as one due to the comfort of all classes of the people. (Cheers.) These were the principles upon which, when the proper time came, the government would approach the consideration of the import duties, as well as the excise. Ile agreed with the hon. member for Bridport in condemning the ad va lorem duties, and he trusted that when the governmest came to reconsider the tariff these duties would be among the first to be swept away. Mr. BALL (Cambridgeshire) was as much opposed to free trade as he had ever been, but as he felt it to be his duty, seeing that he was powerless in his endeavours to pro cure a reversal of that policy, to palliate, as far as possible, its efforts on the agricultural interest, who had suffered so severely by it ; and as the only way, as it appeared to him, to do that was by carrying out the tree trade principle in afi things, he could not consistently oppose the motion. (Cheers from the free trade benches.) He was told that he should be opposed in this step by many of his protec tionist friends, because in the catalogue of commodities enumerated In the motion there were some agricultural products, and that the amount of import autiss gathered upon these was double that obtained from the manufac turing products which would be aflicted, but the truth was that the amount of protection on the different article, of agricultural produce was so small, that the foreign produce came in in spite of it, while the duty on the manufacturing product was such as sensibly to enhance their pries to the farmer. As parliament had made it obligatory on the farmers of this country to compete with those of other corntries, it was only just that they should be allowed to purchase the articles they required for use at the cheeped possible rate, and every measure that tended to that result must benefit them. (Hear, hear.) He would suggest to the Chancellor of the E:chequer one other way of bene fiting the farmer. The late Chancellor of the )exchequer proposed to reduce the malt duty by one-half—let the right hon. gentleman who now held that office go further, and reduce that duty altogether, and he would be acknowledged as the friend of the farmer. (Cheers, and a laugh.) By extending the free-trade principle to everything, he was not without hope that its evils would be so generally felt that all parties would unite in seeking for a return of protection, and the substitution of an ad valorem duty on all foreign articles imported for the heavy weight of direct taxation. (Hear, hear.) On the grounds he had stated, he should support the motion, even if he were the only member on that side whe went into the same lobby with the hon. gentleman (Mr. Hume). He ought, however, to observe that he approved of the first portion of the resolution much more than he approved of the second, but, as it would be difficult to give the one part efficiency without the other, he should vote for it as it stood. (Hear.) Mr. W. BROWN inquired of the Chancellor of !the Ex chequer whether it was intended - to bring forward any bill in reference to the customs regulations, so that the trade might not be dependent, as they were now, on Treasury orders ? With regard to the observations the right hoe. gentleman had offered on the question before the hotter, he generally approved of them. Mr. NEWDEGATE could not concur in the retaliatory policy recommended by his hon. friend (Mr. Ball). He could not reconcile It to his conscience because an injury had been inflicted on the agricultural interest, to min round on the manufacturers, who were protected, and say, " I will inflict an injury upon you." The amount of the duty on manufacturing produce which this motion would affect was 434,0001., half of which, or about 200,0001., was paid by silk. Now when Sir Robert I'cel passed his measures of financial reform he acknowledged silk stood upon a different footing from that of the other articles to which he applied the free trade principles, and left it pro tected by a duty of 15 pier cent. Therefore they had the au thority of Sir R. Peel for continuing protection to that article. He was aware that a body of Manchester silk ma nufacturers had memorialised the late government for the repeal of the duty ; but the silk trade - in Macclesfieici and Spitalfields declared that while France protected its silk manufactures by a duty varying from 4s. 6cl. to 121. per cwt. on dyed silk, and 12s. per cwt. on the raw material, the re moval of the protection on British silk would expose the trade to a most unfair and unequal competition. he rea son the Manchester manufacturers were favourable to the removal of the duty was, he understood, that their trade being confined to dark colours, they increased the weight in the dyeing by using schumac and other ingredients, which gave them an advantage. With regard to the duties on agricultural produce, he could not consent to their removal, seeing that the present government had refused to co-ope rate in the removal of any portion of the malt duty. Mr. J. WILSON, in reply to the question which the hos. member for Manchester had put to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, stated that several bills were in preparation for consolidating . the customs duties. When: prepared they would require the sanction of a Treasury minute, which must precede any act on the part et the Custom House authorities. Mr. VANSITTART was not inclined, by removing the duties involved in the motion, to take from the government the power of dealing with others, the removal or reduc tion of which would benefit the agricultural interest. Mr. A. PELLATT, as a manufacturer of a material which had benefited by the principles of the tariff intro- duced by Sir R. Peel, wished to bear his testimony to the great increase of the consumption of glass, whether ground, plate, or flint, and that the trade were enabled to sell it at a lower price than any foreign glass. Mr. HUDSON (who spoke from under the gallery and was almost inaudible) was understood to object to dabbling constantly with the tariff, and to advise the Chancellor of the Exchequer not to take off duties until he was sure of having secured the revenue he required. MirTEWART thought that the . tariff as fixed by Sir R. Peel was not intended to he final, but that it should from time to time be revised on the same principle. Ile was of opinion that numbers of the smaller duties of the tariff should be swept away. Mr. T. PARKER was surprised that such a motion as this should be made after the resolution to which the house bad come on the subject of free trade. lie should certainly vote for the motion, as he thought, as a honest man, he was bound to do after the adoption of the principles on which it was founded ; but he could not see why it was brought forward, unless the hon. gentleman had sense doubt as to the sincerity of the Chancellor of the Ex aminer. Mr. BRIGHT wished to say a few words in explanation, after the extraordinary statement of the hon. member fer North Warwicashire. Perhaps some persons would think that was hardly necessary, since the hon. gentleman was f 0 much in the habit of snaking unfair and unfounded attacks on manufacturers who lived in the town which he (Mr. Bright) represented. The hon. gentleman appeared to wish to emulate the course taken by a gentleman, formerly a member of that house, and who sat for Knaresborough, and who obtained an unenviable notoriety by his attacks on manufacturers. (Hear, hear.) The hen. member for Warwickshire seemed to wish it to appear that the silk trade of Manchester had a particular interest in the ate 'Won of the duty on that article, which was not participated in by the silk manufacturers of Macc:estield and Spital fields. The honourable gentleman Wel , not aware that a memorial on the subject, which was lately prcs,inted to