The Express. — London, England, 1851-04-05 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 5, 1851. IMPEItIAL PAItLIAMEN'I' the 5,:e37 inmates, being about .. the same rate of mor tality as at the present time. He went on to say —•- " mauy of the paupers do not seek admission into the work- HOUSE OF LARDS.—FRIDAT, Arrat 4. house till they are exhausted by disease," mid be said fur- The Lento CIIMICRLLON took his mat at five (o'clock. they that the only hospital institutiou in the union was in The Earl of ALCR>•aate took the oaths and his seat, and that workhouse, With regard to diet, with the exception of subscribed the parliamentary roll. milk, he could out find that there had been any diminution MILLS AND FACTORIES (IRELAND) BILL. whatever. On the motion of the Marquis of CLANUIC tithe, this bill Mr. REYNOLDS, who rose amid some noisy expressions was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. of impatience,charged the workhouse authorities with being PATENT LAWS. avro....wies to murder. For every one that died, somebody Lord 8i10b.3111111 having pee.eated a petition numerously was accountable before God, and he wished he was 50 snot respectably signed, praying teat his bill on the subject with men. (Cheers.) It was really quite melancholy of the patent laws which had Meet laid on the tulle about that each a Bung as this Kilrush Uniom should be allowed ten tlays ago should he referred to a select coolutnittee, to exist in any country calling itself civilised or Christian. Earl tilt.aN VILLE said the debt,' in bringing forward (Hear.) the government measure On this subject had arisen Irons Sir 1.. O'BRIEN (who was received with much imps certain legal changes which had recently taken place ; but tience ) admitted that the strong inoputations which had I he hoped very shortly to be utile to lay the bill before been east upon the guardians had nut hitherto been contra- their lordships, and it would then be dolr.kble that dieted. ILe hooped the subject would be further discus-ad both hills should be refernel to • select conenkittee, who when the Medical Chariti, Bill (Ireland) should be brought should take gr neva evidence on the subject. ; before the house on Tuesday next. Lord BROCrillAal trusted when his bill came nit for, ritomtAT.tN BUILDINGS BILL. second reading that it would be read a second time w ithout Sir L. L. EVANS, having alladed to the present unsa. dietotesion. !tiafactory state of the New House of Commons, whet! who.- COUNTY COURT (Ft ItTlIE:It EXTENSION) BILL.' thee' it was intended to proceed with the wound reading of '1 he report om this bill was brought up with amend- the Metropolitan Buildings Bill at a late hour that dents. I es going ? 1: ad ABINGER was under-towel to suggest the impor- I Sir G. GREY replied in the negative. tan. , of giving county court judges an teouity jutiediction I 'IIIE INCOME: TAX. 'Owe, comparatively small sums of tome y were in- Mr. COWAN withdrew his motion on this subject. molt , TILE 1101' DUTY. leorol BROUGHAM mid that was the subject of another Mr. FRI:WEN adopted the same course with respect to' bill. The bill before their lordship. wae a mere suppleuter, i the reduction of the hop duty to Id. per lb.—lath geutle- MI memoirre. The wade and kennel lord teat hefted foe men alhging their unwillingness to delay the financial certain returns connected with county courts, shah were statement of the right bon, bonnet (Sir Charles Wood). Ordered. The rising of each of the last half-doses members had beau Loonl BERNERS movie! for returns of the number of received with much ern, atik uce. prisoners convicted of petty larceny in England and '1 lie niotioe that the holia at its rising do adjourn till Wales, in I hI9, Irain, and Dail, his ohjt et being to ricer- Monday next was then agreed to. tin whether there had mast been or great increase of Giant. WAYS AND MEANS.—TIIE BUDGET. Ordered. The house having resolved itself into • committee of Their lordships then, at six o'clock, adjourned. M'ay. and Means, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ma anti said—Mr. Bernal, se vend weeks have now clapad einee 1 Met put into your hands the resolution upon which I out now about to tail upon the house fur its decision • and since that time the attention of bon. memlsere has boas disertsal too twoics of poisibly mute interest, but certainly riot of more on * iterial impertalire. (Hear, hear.) Tillie has been afforded one to recookeitler the proposal I then made to the holier, with the advantage of those observation. and criticisms which, with no sparing hanol, have been bestowed upon it. We have also heard from 'the lips of the noble lard who Meets the great party opposite the (owes, of financial policy which he is prepared to pursue. Ile i. prepared to reduce, as far as passible, at once, and to extinguish as soon as eirectinstauces will allow him, the income tax —(cheers) ;—and he is pre pared to aid that operation by a ditty upon foreign corn. (Cheer , from the pretectionists.) The proposal I have selnuitted too the hoouse, leie for its of the promotion of the comfort, health, and welfare of the labouring portion of sour torumunity • :rod further, too io duce the duty on whether for cuonstimptiolt, or as raw Male /W. (Chiare.) That is the policy which we have theUllit it our duty to pursue. Thew two, courses are In fore the bow.o soil the country, and it is for the house and the country t., deride 011 which title the preponthorance lies, and wince, on the whole, is the mint beueficial cuura to be relented for the welfare of this gnat empire. (Loud cheer. o This I know, that not in vain shall 1 :eh Gov that indulgence of the house• which ha. never 111, a refused to arty one who has herd theobject of eo mooch attack as I have; and I trust to your kind indulgence while 1 viudie ate those opinions which I have propoundetl, and jillotily the mime which I have adopted. (LAO sheen.) 1 admit at once that my proposals were not nevi% ed with 'satisfactions by the country. (l'heers.) That they should sot have ben so remised by gentlemen memos:ming, and connected with, the agricultural inwreet—an interest which 1 MU sorry to my is suffering melee the pressure of those eizeurreitikatto which always attend the removal of protec tive duties--1 am not surpriatl. hear.) They have askt .1 relief, either the reinnoneition of protective duties, or the transfer to the public revenue of a large proportion of their local burdens. (flew., hear.) But believing, as 1 do, that neither of those pro woods would be for the interest oaf the country if weeded to, and, then:thee, not for the it own interred in the long non, it was nut in ray power, consistently with my public duty, so to [Mine !tour financial legislation. With regard toothier parties in this 11.. WW and the country, 1 Confess I was disappointed at the roccption our prooposals not with ; but I see in the various egusurt* and critirietim which have been cast upon thooa proposals that the prevailing demand ha. ben hor the re iniveitin of taxation beyond the amount which I felt and feel it to be pue.ible too concede, consistently with the pre servatinn of our natiunal credit, and the maintenance of thoee public establishments which We believe to be neces sary to the welfare of the country, and in which opinion, so far, we have had no reason to sums.: that a majority of the Move would nut concur. ylear.) Mooch, therefore, as I re gret the disappointment, can only say that we propoad all bunted budget. I might, no doubt, have made some manner of change. I might have reduced the duties upon soap and pups : , II- Lail of on toffee and timber. I might have inaoluoneh thaages, lout while I pleased atm, I should only hove ibis .ati.ti al others. (Hear, hear.) I MK that unless 1 Watt pr; hared to Concede an antuunt of omission of taxation for beyond that which the circumstances of the country would justify I could not have complit•d with a tithe of the de mends which were inside upon me. (Cheers.) Under the, circumstances it akeoncol to me to be the policy, tie well as the duty, of the government to point out that sound course which we believed to be right, and to abide by it. ((Loud cheers.) It is a matter of little moment whether our budget be popular or not, low it is a matter of the deepest importance whether the principle upon which our financial policy is based be sound or unsound. We are bound to look for beyond the present year. We are biretta too resist the first step in the wrong direction. (Clears.) We are bound to resist the begiokikings of a course which, if persisted in, I am persuaded would be fatal to our credit iind to our character. ((.heere.) Sir, the all per vading colojcetion to our promo.' was, bemuse we had thought it necessary to retain wine sUrpluSOVer our present expenditure. I should have thought that recent experience would have abundantly demonstrated the irapoliey of pur suing a dilfereut course. (Cheers.) Sir C. Wood then fah fly went into the financial history of former years, ar guing against the psolny of continually borrowing, and in favour of that of keeping a surplus in laud ; and in support of this latter argument, said, within u fortnight of the time when 1 made tlkis propose], just such another occurreuce took place in the unexpected break ing out of a new Kafir war. (Hear, hear.) What expeutliture that will entail I cannot pretend to say; but in the cireuntstauces of that colony wo are hound to extend too it our protection, as indesel we see Wall the emigrants whom we send out in such considerable numbers; and therefore same charge, *nue considerable I ,b, k e k oe,muot be impoweel on the avenue of this country. Within the Met two days a demand has been made upon me—l hops: it will not turn out to be so serious as it tttt apnears —but a demand has been rustle upon me on the part of the East India Company tie the unliquidated balance of the Chinese expedition, amounting to 4410,0001. [This state ment et ioloattly Created a great reweition in the house.] I hove and trust, continued the right hon. barohet, that upon au accurate investigation of the accounts the balance may not turn out to be that which tit is alleged to be by the East India Company, but nevertheless there is the demand, there is a possibility of its being found to be just, and under those circumstances, if it be MI, that demand must he paid. (Hear, hear.) In the previous discussion upon this point, my hon. friend the member for Moutroa (Sir. Hume), though approving in generated' the proposal 1 made, stouteil the notion of staying off any portion of the debt. Ile objeetkel to the inaiuteuance of any margin fur that purpose. 'tut he is the last person' in this house froon whom l should hate expected ouch auobservation. What did he nay when 1 borrowed eight millions a few years ago in permanent stocks ? That 1 ought to have borrow...l it in terminable annuities ; and only the other night he ex ',reseed his wish that the whole debt hail been invested in the .hapg of tenniamble ;nitwit:es. Now what is the ditfar , slice in principle, so far as the existing tax-payer. are eviscerate', between a terminable annuity and a permanent charge with a *hiking fund applied too its reduction ? 'they both proweed ou the self-same prime* of a greater present charge. (Hear, hear.) %Vs are continually pluming and tato:ruin ourselves on the proepeetive rehef to aries, from the falling in of certain charges which will occur in Dell, ii, 1860, and in suttee quent care, from the extinction of that present charge whirl, the providence of those who have gone before us treated 36 u relief to those who should come after them. And are we, oo praising them, to refuse to those who come alter to. any such benefit as we ourselves enjoy ? There is indeed this difference between a terminable annuity mud a permauent debt diminished by the application of an annual surplus, that in the one case it is out of our pewee to be dishonest, and alas that it should be said in a British Ilona of ('ommons that when we have the power of doing that a Welt is right, et for the sake of alfunliowl wine tem porary relief, we leave not the self-denial or the courage to do that which we ;thud ought to be done. (Hear, hear.) Let me remind the house of that delusion which seems so prevalent, that any failure or risk in the payment of the public dividends would ouly iujure the rich. The late Lord Ashburton called fur a re turn of the amount of all the clivideude paid iu the public stocks; and I sec by a recent return that five-sixths of those receiving dividends receive amounts not exceeding 50t. per annum; while as to one-third of the whole, the amount does not exceed ill. per annum. (Hear, hear.) 1 do not pretend to say that this is a true criterion of the total income of thew persons ; but it is sonic index to the number of those who are in such a position that their ale depenthuce almost is on our public filth being infallibly! maintained. 1 believe, and these who sit scar me believe, that the result of our recent legislation has been nuiterially to improve the well-being sad mauls I of our countumen at Large—(hear, hear;—that they are better sod, and richer, and re able than before to pay those: taxes which still remain for diem to pay. (Ilear. hear.) No doubt this arts moot might be used by some .hon. gentlemen whonn I have in my eye—fur instance, the hon. memher for North Warwickshire (Mr. Newdegate), who has lately print ol to us that the 'plum nt prosperity of the country is main ' tainted by • gradual abstraction of the capital of our manu facturers and merchants, that the agriculturists ari the only persons in distress, uud that the labouring population are souring front the want of employment and load wag, v I should understand the argument if it proetechtl from gen tlemen who hold those opinions; but when it proceeds from the mouth of gentlemen who agree with me that the coun• HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Finn kv, ilsebr;u --- actstook tla• chair at a ituarttr to War o'clock. NEW MEMBER,. -- • • Mr. William Page Wo 1, the new Nolieitor-f ion:nil, took thr oaths and his seat, on his se-eleetiou for the City of 01Mt. PRIVATE BESINESS. THIRD REAMS/i.-11aln liceele., and Raililistwe Railway Bill. Stroud awl Gliourroiter It•nd Bill. I e *cowl Mewling. of the Metnwolitais Cattle Market Bill , Ind Smaithatid Enlisr;remeitt Rill, w re, iin tlk tuatara or M r terraria d imatimmvl till W;1 ..ry next. Mr. U. LEWIS gave u.mee that on W 01114,114 y neat he would, more that the w. rnment bill for the removal of . . timithliehl market he taken op at the time of privete ; and in ran' the. bill %Mullet be read a "cloud nu e, he would more that it be ref...mil to a velvet committee of lire member, WATERFORD AND DUBLIN RAILWAY. Mr. LABOUCIIEIII aid that yederilay the hen. ram bur :or Armagh (sir W. Vanier) had d for maw Murat lisrcte• to the 11 - . shred, Wicklutt , awl Ihtltlauluny Comistuy. rrturtry had tn.. ordirrvel u. ur...ppueetl. Tory seer , I...we%er, opposed r.- turn.„ and hr (Mr. Lohourh 11.“1 thr ranrurvirre of the, Ihun ,urablr I..srussrt (Sir %V. nor) to now awning liwittlw orolyr fur the v returns br The taller was diyiehargvil arronlingly. I't' ISUSINENS. 11All1101: It OF 1101.1'11E:1D. Mr. REYNOLDS Este nod*, that on an early day after Ita , tcr he would on fur a select eontatittee to inquire and nTort as to the policy of continuing the ituicau d tap ..1 1.111•111. tummy in ruu-tneetiug the harbour of r. fuga at tt.,lria-.1. PUSETISM. Sir R. ' referring to ; letter front Lord Londe,- ..... gli, w6i, h had appear...l in the Times of that morning. inquir..l of Tool J. nu.. II whether, during th.• lad siz w.. L., he heel had any communication, with the aryl'. lii.hopo and hohops of th. established church, in reference to thu 1•0111i1111 MCC of certain form, introduced into our thumbs' by different clergymen, and against which certain of the bialorps had charged their el. ; 3111,1 %A 'kilt's' it Ira• the bd. ration of ti., archbishop. and bishops to take tiny . Ifectual steps for the purpoo• of suppressing such practices, a hkh the Ili.hop of London, in a recent charge, had ohmmetersd a' hidri • perforutanc.. The letter to which be rred cont. al a statement that a clergyman hail reflood to baptise an infant child of Lord L 011,11,, barOUgh, r xr , pt in a way 41angrrowl to the infant's health. 11. mitcludisl by explaining that this question was whe ther the bishops intril , lrtt to take any steps for the sup presdoto of Paw:ride. Sir 11. 11. IN,ILIS protested ;laving that that house being made the arei.a tor the diselosuni of quedions with which, compo.4l as it seas of Olen ul u 8 proal:ai•ow , , it waa mninently unlit to deal. Sir B. 11111. replied that there was no other ar•na where ouch matters could be ili.euseed, and that an long us the church masts 1111 l ected with the state it mild he bald., to the auperrision of that house. The I.i.hops had B e rland that they believed the lute papal aggres.ion to have lx . vn t WWl' raged by the practice. r. ierreal to, mot vet .of them hail th e cograg.• to 'olive,. them. Ile referred to the Flat cri k opol manifesto, mil prthrli.44l that the subject should , akortly be di...snood in all its Mines.. I.ordJ. RUSSELL regretter' that sir If. Hull had bmught up theta. parte statement of Lord lanottolimough. Ile the a mid that since hi. hen statement to the lonise upou the subject, he had, personally, hail no coinmunieatiou with the arehhishops or hishopa, in whoa hand. he con- entered such a matter was moat prop. rly left. lie would any nothing about the attires. by the to enty-O.ur arch bishops rend Mabel., but au address loam the quottiou robed by Sir it. Hall had been posented (•igned by 3 . 211.4.00 persons) to her 'Majesty, ahu hail ordered it to be referent to the Archbishop of l'auterloury for comninoica -61111 to the other urelibbitoto and bishops, awl, with owls reference. there had been added an intimat that 11 r IditOoty was thoirous to discourage any i 111 l ovation nut in arcordonce with the law, or with the established usages of the chinch. lie wan emitunt to Icasc the matter to On , discret of the archbishop, but there would he no dittieulty about producing the communication, which had been made Stu or three days :WO. lie deprivated discussing such u topic in that hoist., and added that, though entertaining very strong op • • upon it, nothing should induce bum (remembering the unfortunote tot at. which had occurred iu refereuce to the Scotch rhurch) to bike any step butting to a disruption in the church of England. N Mr. EWDEtiATE, ivannouuciug that whenever the Jew: Bill should be brought in lie should move its being root that day six month., 1111111 that this very discussion prncd most strongly the impropriety of alltuitting tutu that boas, persons of vatting religious persutedons. I,unt J. IIV SSE L denied the connexion of the two pulivets. UNIVERSITY TESTS IN SCOTLAND. Mr. COWAN said, seeing the Lord .adswate ‘11,14 not in hi. place, he would ask the Steretary at War whether it was the intention of her Majesty's morns:mut to introduce a bill to Owlish the declaration now reptinol of the chair of divinity in the rnivenities in Scotland. Mr. 11. MAU LE replied that ht..hould not wish t.. bring in such a bill unto there was a distinct prolmbilay nut only of his being able to carry it out. but of there to mg a discussion upon it. If his lion. friend thought proper to bring in a 11111 on the subject he did not apprehend that go vernment would have any objection to it. KILItUSII l'N lON. !dr. SCULLY then rose to ask the Oilier Secretary furl 11%1,11111 the fullowiug totostions respecting the condition of the Kibosh union : Wlwther the wurkhutt.o in that union hail ar eo mmodati.m fur 4,1:l1 1111113114 1 , or tht rcabouts, from the Bth ..f al aft II lest? whether there were not upwards of 470,00 within the hens,: at that date? whether the deaths within the house fur the 21 days endiur the =odor March did not cact-ell 200 whether pauper., to the number of Ixtween 100 and 200, were nut iti the habit of seeking for relief within the house upon the atlntionun slays? whether many of ouch were not in a most destitute and nearly starving Mate. and after having walked some 12 Irish mile. were refused admittance whether any steps were taken to ' arfor,l them, so relayed, any aesistonce whatever? whether the poor law commissioners arc aware of this state of 1114044, and if so, what measure. have they taken or intend to tale.' in order to correct them? Sir W. SOMERVILLE said he would Rive as much in formation as he could in reply to the several out-mime. which the 'too. gentleman haul placed on the paper, autl within the limits that he thought he might to occupy uutlcr pet snt s tannest:men. (Rear, hear.) In answer to the Net questian of the hon. gentleman, a. to whether the work house fur Kilroth Union hail accommodation fur 4,.161 inmates in March last, the information which the hon. gen tleman had received on that poiut was eurrcet. As to the subsequent quo-stroll he had no precist , information which he could give to the hon. gentleman. The commeasioners had nut ben able to get any precise infonuotion respecting them. As to the last question, which was the important question, IL. to whether ti.. lour Law Commisaionem were aware of this state of things, he had to state that of course they were perfectly aware that this state of thiugs existed in Kilrurll. The commissioners had constantly remon strated with the bawd of guardians on this state of things, and they urged them in the tint place to provide additional workhouse atcummodation ; 01111, failing that, to resort to a 11T-teen of out-door relief. A. early as the beginning of I/et...miter. in last year, the commiasitmers applied to the board of guardian. ten the purpose of octtine, athlitionaloiorkhuuse room. and the guardians , he thought, ' about the 20th of March said additional accommodation 1 , would he atecasary. At a subsequent period to that the commisaioners procured assistanct: from the rate in aid fluid for the purpose of providing additional infirmary ac-1 coonnudation, which was much required in that %untie. The board of guardians did everything he believed in their poser to procure additional workhouse accommodation, which they found very didicult ; and they had yielded to the sulk-dation. of the commissioners to a dopt a ,y.wm of out-door relief. which commensal in January, and un the thol of March the number receiving relief was 2,626. and be was happy to WA his hon friend that on the santetti,tt 22n41 of fillarch. the excess of numbers in the w had been reduced to 214. lie was sorry to oboes,* WS sanitary condition of the workhouse. Tho commissioners had domr everything in their power to call the attention of the guardians to this state of things. The inspector of that union, one of the must active men in that employ. said in his report, ° referring to the week ending the 30th of March is the past year the deaths amounted to ;0 on try has derived benefit from that legislation, if the argu ment be true, it is the utter condemnation of the policy we have pursued. (Hear, hear.) We were rightly told, Bor 10 years ago, that that which moat presses upon industry and me m* the accumulation of capital, was not the amount of taxes paid into the exchequer, but the indirect effect produced by the existence of monopoly and protection. (Hear, hear.) Those monopolies and protective duties have been removed; and the community at large must have derived a corresponding benefit. (Hear, bear.) My hon. friend the member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) told us the other night that there had been put into the pockets of the community at large 101 l minutes per annum in the price of their food alone. The noble lord the member for Stamford (the Marquis of Granby) told us that in his opinion six millions per annum had been taken from the pockets of the agriculturists and transferred to those of other classes. I do not answer for the precise amount of either of these cal culations; but supposing that either or both of them be , tear, to that extent, at least, the community at large is I richer ;sod better able to bear the taxation which they pas'. (Hear, hear.) And whether they pay to the exchequer 60 millions or 100 millions per annum, they will be no worse off than they were when compelled to make this useless expenditure in the price of their food. If, on the con trary, while they have derived those benefit.; ' the taxation which presses upon them has been reduced full ten mil lions, it follows, not as a matter of probability or opinion, but as a matter of absolute demonstra tion, th at; the pressure of taxation must be infinitely less now than it was ten years ago. (Hear, hear.) I am not afraid of hearing such opinions urged in this house; hon. gentlemen here know better than that ; but it is most important that they should, entertainiug such opinions as I are held on this side the house, withstand the prevalence of a delusion so fatal as this. They ought to withstand the putting iwo the hands a our opponents so favourable a weapon as this would be. They ought to withstand the discrediting their own principles of political economy—to withstand that delusion, which, if suffered to act upon the public opinion in this country, cannot but lead to conse quences fatal to our national credit and our national cha racter. (Hear, hear.) I beg pardon of the house for say • ing so much upon this imbeeet. (hear, hear.) I sneak warmly upon it., because I confess I feel warmly. (Hear, hear.) I have been told that I ought not to retain a sur plus, but to reduce and repeal taxation boldly, even if it produced a deficieiwy. When I heir of the hon. baronet the member for Southwark (Sir William Melesworth) being hiesed in a public assembly when he talked of the maintenance of the national faith, I say it is time when those who hold other opinions should stand boltly forward and express them. (Hear, hear)—And, how ever unworthily I may discharge it, with the reeponsilielity which I hold in matters of finance and coiner me, I feel it my duty to make this early protest, and to call upon those who agree with me to do their beet to ceunteract an opiuion ou dishonest and so dis creditable. (Hear, hear.) I cannot say that I should think myself joet'fiell iu altering at all the estimate I made of our probable income. With regard to our proba ble expenditure, that is contained in the estimates laid upon the table of this house, and the most material items of which have been already voted. (" Hear," and a laugh.) I am not u-ing that as any argument, except to this extent: we laid upon the table of the house the estimates which we believed to he necessary. After the conduct of the house two or three nights ago, it would be unfair to urge as an argument that the estimates had been voted, But we laid them on the table of the house, believing them to he fairly and properly framed, with it cue regard to economy on tie. one lentil, and to the demands of the country on the other; surely, therefem, I arty say, without exciting the ridicule of lion. gentlemen, that of a great portion of those estimates, at West, the house has been pleased to ap prise. (11ear, hear.) The probable amount of surplus, therefore. 1 take to be about what I stated 1,892.0001. Now, lam told that, even with this probable surplus, I might strike off taxes to such an extent as would produce an effect on the country, hat that the plan I have ',rimmed will not do so. (Hear, hear.) I plead guilty alto gether to that. 1 must conties that when I came to consider the proposals which 1 should submit to the house, I did nut consider that which would probably produce an effect upon public opinion. 1 set demo to consider what taxes were the must ohjeetionehle awl productive of the greatest mis chiefs; and the reiluetion of these taxes I propoeed. (Hear.) There is one large duty which we have been re-1 wombed fur nut hiving dealt with—the duty upon tea. I That duty, though high, is test a protective duty. (Hear, hear.) Whatever the supplies may be from China, *ere is no comp. tine country the supplies; from which might bring down the prim of that article; and though I have, on termer ticcasinns, expressed my opinion that it would be a ilesinible thing to reduce the duty upon tea, and though I retain that opinion, yet I think there are other duties WWI have a prior claim for our considera tion. Had I pommel' a reduction of the duty on tea, I know not whether I might not have been fairly called upon at the sent.. time to deal with the duty on that ar ticle which is suppo,il to conic into serious competition with tea—l mean the duty on malt—(hear, hear)—and though the duty on tea is 200 per mut, and that us malt only about GO per cent., yet I think I might have been fairly remeed to attack from the representatives of the agricultural interest, hail I dealt only with the former. But, independently of that, I think other duties hell a prier claiun em our consider at . . We hearealls fur a sae9like of some 120,000/. per annum lli.oll Illeys' certificates, of 1;11,000. upon advertisements, of 360,000/. upon newspaper stamps, and the risk of about 100,000/. upon Irish spirits. Uwe are to go on in this way, diminieh iteg the power of the Chancellor of the Exehequerto make a great reduction of any material duty—(hear, hear)—if the modern mysteue ie to prevail, that every surplus, however small, is to be at once expended in the reduction of some minor tax, neither I. one who tills this place, em aar tam sem any one .. ever do that which the house or the country. demand - make to be added to this for V-- present year halt the considerable reduction at once. If that be the wish ut the amount of the window tax, because there is a half house, they must co-operate with the Chancellor of the years' window tax now due, and it will be re- Exchequer, and enable him to do that which they require. evived in the July quarter. That will amount to Sir Ch ides then went on to observe that he had been .1014,000/., nod on Ow present year, therefore, there charged with hosing no principle in his budget, but he re- will be an amount of 924,0001. to cover every im plied that his principle had been to benefit the mass of the foreeeen expenditeire. But this will nut be the permanent working classes, remembering that government W:l4 insti- margin. Now, Sir, 1 cannot say that I would be justified tuted tier the. advantage of the many, and nut of the few, in proposing any further embed' than 'hose This had been the key of all his arts, and he had never I have mentioned. I must aerniad the house again that sought to study class interests. He had sought to give the there may he a possible demand upon us in consequence of masses chi ap rood and cheap clothing, and, those objects the hostilities at the Cape of Good Hope. (Hear, li.ar.) I having been accomplished, he had sought to improve their say possible &mud, and, if made, it is impossible to say dwellings. For their wakes he had, lust year, reduced HOW what the extent of that demand may he. I cannot the duty on bricks, and this year he had proposed to reduce help thinking and hoping that the placed at the die that upon foreign timber and upon windows, and when port of Sir 11. Smith may put a speedy termination to that 'dynast be aecomplished, he should tandeler that he had these hostilities ; at the NOM' time we cannot forget the closed Iris career well. After defending, in detail, the alio- time, trouble., and cost, which the firmer 110Ailitil, at the s awl alterations of protective duties proposed in his Cape cost this country ; and under these eirtuinstancee, former statement, he said that two of his proposed ar- no per s ons would be so unwise and prodigal cm to throw the =nutmeats had been most unfavourably received— means of meeting any demand that may be made upon us namely, that affecting the expense of lunatic asylums, nod away. (Hear, hear.) Besides, there is the positive de that of the duty en clover and grass seed, and mend, and the possible amount of the demand, made upon these he might not fist it his duty to p . n.s in opposi- this country on the part of the East India Company. hem to the wishes of these they were intended to be- I have great hopes that the real amount of the &- tient. I am aware (the hon. gentleman continued) that mend of the East ludic Company may not be so large as , 1 a loud demand Iran been made for the unconditional it has been stated. There will Inclnca careful investigation repeal of the wiudow duty. (Hear, hear.) The amount of into the matter, but if the demand is correct we must he revenue derivable from that source is 1,816,090/.; whilst prepared to meet it. But I think it would be uuw i.e in me the probable surplus is about 1,89'2,0001. Now, if I assent to be under the necessity of meeting tine demand which the to that abolition, I leave myself a margin of some ham gentleman (Sir J. 'Hoag) may think proper to make. and it 1 add to that the least possible expenditure tin account The house is now in possession of what I mean bi propose, of the Keith. war. (Laughter, and ironical cries of o Hear," in the event el the house agreeing to my proposition for a from the protectionist benches.) Du bon. gentlemen sup- renewal of the income-tax. But I hope the house will pose that this house will suffer Britieh subjects vibe slaugh- allow me to advert strictly to the proposition of the right tared and not protect theta? (Hear, hear.) Do they sup- hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. liveries.) The house should . pose that those who have gins to that colony on the faith of know that that is the first step in the policy which Lord our protection in u foreign land shall not be protected ? if' Stanley 11111101111 CA. (Ileac, hear.) The right hon. gentle st', I trust their opinions will not meet the approval of a ma-' malt very inuperly proposed to reduce the taxution no jority of this house. (('heers.) Well, but if I add the small- I more than was consistent with the maintenance of the est poisible demand on the ground of the Kaffir war, I national faith. I quite agree with the right hon. gentle thus umucessarily create a d I eficiency, which I hope no man that if the taxation is to be reduced, it is impossible hon. gentleman to this house will require me to do. (Hear, ito reduce it at once by so large an amount us the amount of hear.) Cur my own part, Ido not think 1 should be acting' the income lex. The right bon. genthanan's proposition is justly, were Ito do so. (Hear, hear.) That which presses the first step towards that object. The difference between upon the labouring population is not so much the amount us is, that I think that policy is wrung. (Ikea) I will of the tax as the mode iu which it is levied. (Hear, hear.) admit to him that the tax when first imposed was It is the reference to the number of Wi11 , 10.14, and not for a temporary purpose—(a hear, hear," from the protee to the value of the houses, of which they complain ; and if I tionists)—the temporary purpose ut meeting in de. ficiency. I were to reduce the whole of the taxation so far as it But that purpose was accomplished. It was accomplished presses on house property, I should postpone a claim of far in 1545. (Hear, hear.) But in 181.1 the income-tax was more pressieg importance as regards the benefit of the tam- renewed for a different purpose—(ht ar, hear) -Mr the pur munity. Now let me re mind the house of the re- post' of enabling this house, to make improsements in our quests that have been rank of the government an this I financial legislation, of removing impolitic restrictions, of subject. One of the earliest parties who promoted this reducing the price of articles of consumption, and of re movement was a gentleman well known in this metropolis I moving duties which checked the development of the in as are owner of house property, Mr. Hicks. 'that gentle- dustry of this country. (('heers.) I admit that many man. in a deputation to me, stated that they did not desire ;of these objects have been accomplished, but others the abolitiou of tax as mirth eat the ground, i f p(cuniary remain to he accomplished. (Hear, hear.) My opinion, as sanitary eausiderations; whilst a house tax he rep re- I therefore, is that we ought not to repeal this tax till senteel as certain to fall, not on the occupier. but on the' these objects are accomplished. (Hear, hear.) I admit, proprietor. What WAS the motion of my noble friend who that any material reduction of the income-tax ought to be brought the question forward: Not that the house pro. followed by its extinction. (Hear, hear) I think it would pride'r should be relieved from the taxation, but that no be highly impolitic to retain a small amount of income-tax. restriction should be placed on air and light. (Hear. hear.) (Hear, hear.) I think that the present amount of income :he ' held me even by members of I tax y not a v.- - heavy one, either upon persons who hold land that if the tax wet, renewed, in sinte of what the I house should hear on Monday, they would never again be free from it. (Hear, hoar.) The other parts of the budget were no doubt improvements, and would be well received by the right lion. gentleman's friends and supporters; but they must be taken in conjunction with other great propo sitions. (Hear, hear.) Lord It. GROSVENOR said he had never joined some hon. gentlemen with whom he usually acted in their of to the income tax. (Hear, hear.) lie had always considered it desirable that there should be more of threat taxation than there had formerly been. In the course of the debates on the income tax he had declared the principles on which he supported its imposition; and he would now again state that nothing would give lion greater satiefaetion than to see that tax permanently imposed ton the country provided it were fairly assessed. lie confessed he bed never 'eon more astonished than he was at the outhumt of itttlig nation which came front the metropolis when his right hen. friend proposed to take otf the window tax and impose u holm, tax. His answer to objectors was uniformly this— that he should he very happy to put into his own pocket the amount which lie paid for income tax ; but that so long as the poor man's tea, coffee, tobacco, and newspapers were no highly taxed he could nut do so conscientiously. (Ileac, hear.) Ile did hope that, now that the etterveseeme had subsided, his couatituents would come to their 10.11Seb --(laughter)—and he also hoped that his hon. friends the metropolitan members would come to theirs. (Renewed laughter.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer had that night proposed what appeared to him (Lord it . Grosvenor) a very proper substitute for the window tax. As to the income tax, the house al ld recollect that the working classes did nut pay one farthing of it. He begged to give notice that on the earliest day till which he could obtain an opportunity of doing so, he should move the repeal of the tax on atturuies' certificates. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Mr. lIUME said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had, in the commencement of his speech, accused him (Mr. Hume) of making u proposal calculated to injure public credit. Ile was left much at a loss by the right hon. gen tleman's observations ' because he had sat down without any further allusion to the subject matter. Ile wished latiore he went further to hear from the Chancellor of the Exche quer, what he meant to do towards the reduction of the national debt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was Sur prised that vu old a member of the house did not know that the reduction of the debt was a uniform operation pre sided for by act of parliament. That act provided that in case of a surplus, one-fourth should be lipptupriatcd to the , rt (lnstitut of the national debt. Mr. II UME said that his object was to prevent the opera tion of that act by exhausting the surplus on the reduc tion of taxation. It was quite idle to talk of the debt while taxes remained which pressed so heavily uu the poor. (hear.) There were the taxes on soap, on piper, the adver tisement duty, and the tax on newspapers, tilt abolition of any or all of which he would prefer to the reduction of the debt. The noble lord who had spoken earlier in the evening, yoke as if the Chancellor of the Exchequer had merely renewed his budget, but he must admit that the most offensive part—the unequally arranged house tax—was properly modified. As to the income tax, he (Mr flume) --pared to support it, with a view of reducing . . Allot was the languve to . very ..c, deputations who waited on me accompanied by my ; land or on professional men, considering the security with noble friend, Lord Duncan ? (Hear, hear.) Not that they which they enjoyed their property. (Hear, hear.) But the came to seek a remiss.ou of pounds, shillings, and pence. • great objection to the income-tax is its inquisitorial chanse- They rviiresented how the ilwLllings of the poorer classes ter. and that objection would apply to the tux if it was were atfteteil ; and they esked to be relieved from such only one penny in the pound as muss as it does at its pre evils, the existence of which I admitted, and still admit; sent rate. (Hear, hear.) I thick, therefore, if we are to but they never pretended to a,crt that they had claims to have an income-tax at all, we bllOlllll have the benefit of it. entitle them to a total renti-,ioa of the tax. By the tax to , tow, my belief is, that if this change is made we be assessed on houses, instead of windows, I could have may look to a revival of the revenue before long, and that met all dont:ands founded on sanitary considerations ,• but I with a revival of trade and the general industry of the should have imposed, at the same time, a burden of so dif- country, it may be possible to repeal or at least to reduce ferret a nature, and in many cases so much greats rin , this tax. (Hear, hear.) Let me now refer to what took amount, that 1 should have caused great di-satisfaction. • place in two years. I will take the year in which the in (hear, hear.) By a duty of Is. Ukl. in the pound on come tax came into operation, and the last year in which dwelliu t lii iJuses, and Is. id. in the pound on shops there ; e have any accounts of the amount prod u. eed by it. he s.ch it came ---• oth was pr.., other taxes that pressed upon the people; but be was nut orepared to maintain it, fur the purpose of maintaining large military establishments. (Hear, hear.) It was the expense of those establishments that had caused the defi ciencies of former years. The right lion. baronet talked of the revenue recovering, but the fact was that the revenue hall never failed; it was the expenditure that had gradually increased. The right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. (ferries) had said nothing about reducing those establish ments, although that must be a necessary preliminary to the re duction of the income tax. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said very properly, " You have voted my esti mates, and therefore must accede to the ways and means." Ihe right hon. gentleman was right, and those who op posed him had no right to complain if they had would ..... realised 1,800,00014 btit the result' Of that would have been to double the assessment on many of the lw•st cl.t•s of houses in :this and other large towns. though in other respects I am disposed to think it would be equitable end fair. But my °Nut has been to giva a considerable relief to all par ties. My proposil would have t d'ectc.l a reduction of the bunhu in A1.:1,i; for I ',rope,. d that no person should pay inure than two-thirds of the amount which he at pre sent pats. (Hear. hear.) I could not apply the same rule - tho-e that - - r assessed to tear in which it came into operation, ending 4t.. Apra. 1444, the last year of which we have any returns is the year ending .sth April, 1850. The ordinary revenue in the former ,rear, that is to say from taxes, excise, and &tulips, was 45,43,000/. Between 1841 and last year seven lions of taxes have been repealed, and yet in that year-- the year ending sth April, 1850—the ordinary revenue was precisely the same as it was in 18134—viz., 45,600,000. V. have repealed 7,000,0001. of taxation under the pressure of the income tax, and notvrithstending the ordinary revenue has revived. (Cheers.) The same amount of income has previously agreed to the estimates. - It was dd . , gen tlemen who had voted with him (Mr. Hume) who had a right to complain—who had opposed the estimates, believing them to he four millions more than they ought to be. 17te Chancellor of the Exchequer took credit for promoting sanitary measures by abolishing the window tax, but was there not another important class of measures—the educational, which were sadly retarded by the paper duties? (Hear, hear.) He could nut, therefore, support any reduction of the income tax, but he would sup its being applied to the reduction of excise and other to ucelwasCs, because s never were - the window tat could not be taxed iu that regard. I there fire• deemed it the fairest mode of dealing with the princi ple to unpile u uniform duty on old and new how". (llear, hear.) But the Marylebone and Pancras gentlemen complain of the injustice of my proposal, inasmuch as 0111 say they would have more to pay, and would be far better pleased to be put on a footing with the new houses. I must certainly say their com plaint,' went more loud than juq. The Marylehoue parish now pays 90,00111., whilst by my proposal they would been received notwithstanding the relief that has been given to the consumer. (Hear, hear.) And surely, with this proof before us of the elasticity of the trade and re 0121Vell of the country, with this proof that the income tax does not su unduly press on the energies of the country, we arc justified in the confidence, that if we remove this ob lectionable tax we may be still in the same position we were en when the income tax was imposed, whilst commerce has improved, the revenue remained the same, and whil , t, what is of far greater importance, the great body appertits _ oppro.soove duties. Mr. TRELAWNY mid he had put upon the paper a motion for applying two millions of the annual resenne to the reduction of the national debt, and he was still of, opinion that such a measure would he the hest mode of re lieving taxation. Mr. H. BAALLIE said he did not mean to enter into the general discussion, but to confine himself to the proposal for the renewal of the income tax. He had ' heard with regret that it was not the intention of govern- be charged only 60,0001.• or, under a uniform rate, 71,000! . of the population of this country have improved, sent to make any reduction or modification of that tax, A tax of le in the pound on houses and 9d. in the pound on in every degree of comfort, health, and independence. but that it was to he re-in - mood with all the original objee shops would give 6.4,0001. So that the proposal of which (Cheers.) Sir, this is not the time to refer to any of those lions. Ile had been somewhat surprised to hear some of the gentlemen complain is less onerous than if their wishes discussions which willtekeplace on Monday, whenthe income the arguments by which the right s honourable gentleman were complied with, by putting them on a footing with tax is to he brought under the consideration of the house. sought to rectintmend the measure to the house. now houses, which would entail on them from 8,0001. to I have stated to the house the proposal which we intend to The right honourable gentleman stated that he had 11,0001. more than would my proposal. (Hear, hear) I offer for its approval. If the house consents to adopt been originally nil - erns to the tax, but had seen admit my proposal was deficient in the uniform principle, the measures of relief I propose, a great benefit will reason to alter hi+ opinion, in consequence of it having which, on the whole, I regard to be the most just. be afforded to the whole body ofeeneumere of this country, ' enabled him to i ket large reductions in import duties. (Hear, hear.) I therefore propose altogether repeal- whilst, if the policy advocated by the right hon. gentleman lie said he had lies ii enabled to reduce the import duties, ing the window duty—(loud cheers) leaving out of opposite (Mr. Hemet) be adopted, it will lead to the rcimpo- ' and to substitute indireet in place of direct taxation, and ho consideration altogether the number of windows or open. , 'item of an import duty upon corn. If that policy he carries! then called upon the house to support the income tax , on lugs they may have, and thus getting rid of every ! out, not only will it withhold from the labouring man the bene. ' the ground that it was his intention to follow in the foot objection that may he entertained on sanitary ground., fits we propose to give him, but it will deprive him of many of steps of Sir Robert Peel. Now, he (Mr. 13aillie) and thus affording raja" to all. (Renewed cheers.) I pro- those which have been conferred upon him elready by our' must protest ageinst the supposition that Sir Robert pine a uniform rate of 9d. in the pound on dwelling-houses, recent policy. (Cheers.) 1 cannot sufficiently deprecate Peel had recominended the income tax to the house and ffil. in the pound on hoines having shops. (('heers.) The the result of such legislation. (Year, hear.) I certainly !on such terms as these. Sir Robert Peel, when ho duty I propose will be a uniform rate ou all old houses as do attach more importance in a political than in a commer- first proposed it, proposed it upon the ground that there well as new of 9.1. in the pound on the annual value; but vial pent of view to the revered of our policy. : was a great deficit in the exchequer, l that there had been in in the case of all houses connected with the occupation of I do believe that it is essential to the well doing several preceding yens an annual iel deficit in the exetimer, land I propose it eliell only be 6d. in the pound on the an- lof the country that the people should be contented and' that it amounted to e very large sum of money, and, there nuel value. (Hear, hear.) The house will remember also happy under our legislation . Ido believe that if they feel' fore, he called upon the house to sustain the public credit. that I proposed at the same time to exempt from taxation themselves to be the objects of our solicitsule, that their' Ile then propowil the income tax for a limited period, be altogether all houses not exceeding '2O/. in value; at present morel, social, and material condition is an object of care to cause, as he believed, the resources of the country I propose to retain that exemption. (Rear, hear.) Now, us, that they will feel grateful and be attached to the insti- would not require it to be imposed for a longer let us sec what will be the result. In the first place I get lotions of their country. (Cheers.) If we have enjoyed period than three years. This was. the general ground rid of all reference to the window tax in every shape. the benefit of that policy—if we have had proofs of its lun which he prepmel it in 11413. But, what I have reduced the number of houses paying that tax advantage in the confidence and :duck-tient of the people del he propose as the grounds for its renewal in 1413? Ile from 590,000 to 4110,00 U ; whilst I confer a benefit that did three year+ ago— (cheers)—if we could laugh at the nppre. I then said, s• Ido not wish to say one word in favour of the not exist under the old house tax to shops, victualling , beanies of disturbances which at least took hold of the ; continuation of this tax beyond the three years. Ido not / houses, and houses connected with the occupation of land, minds of hon, gentlemen opposite at that time--if we have ! think the house will agree that the income and prope r[ to an extent of 1.150,000 1 . The tax which I pro se been enabled to bid defiance to those temular insurrections; tax as now imposed ought to be permanent." (Hear, hear. amount to 720,000 e, instead of 1 et ) 0,0001. (Ileac , hear.) which overspread Europe, and which in many instances I Well, then, what wine the statement of Sir It. Peel in ISt 'there are some few eases in which, by my proposed, the were quenched in blood, I think we leave no reason to' when he promisee its renewal again ? lie then said that rate on houses will be raised ; but some caws there are so regret that policy. (The right bon. gentleman resumed his "One of his 1.1:astIllS fur asking the house to consent to a anomalous that it is impossible to deal with them other- seat amid loud cheers.) continuance of the income tax for three years longer was, wine (Hear. hear.) But all houses will be at liberty Mr. II Ellett ES observed that after what hail taken place that last year, in u time of pea, they had heen obliged to to open windows to au unlimited number. (Hear, hear.) last night he did not expect the right hon. gentleman add 10,00(1,0001. to the debt, and that on that very account The relief, as I have said, will be unequal, depend- would have taken the present opportunity of provoking inerineed efforts ouht to be made to meet the expenditure ing entirely on the district in which the houses are situated. that debate which had by common con s ent been patterned of the country." (hear, hear.) Now, the present Chan- In the better class of streets, where the value is high. the till Monday. lie (Mr. Herrieo) would wait till the ',miser cellor of the Eachequer inked the house to renew relief will not he to the same extent as in streets of lesser opportunity arrived to convince the house that the policy the income tax in order that he might be enabled to remove value; and houses in the country, where value is less in the right hon. gentleman advocated ought to be rescinded. import duties ; hut, if that were eo, the honse would be proportion to the number of houses, will he relieved more The right hon. gentleman had provoked a recurrence to very much inclined to perceive that the income tax was than amities in fashionable localities of towns. (Hear, what he said on the renewal of the income tax in 1815. In likely to remain a penneneut burthin on the people-- hear.) The busses of country gentlemen and clergymen proposing the renewal of the tax Sir Robert Peel 01114:Tied and, if it was te be a permanent bunlen, then it would ho as also the Griner, paying between 200/. and :Will. that in 1812 he was coutented with propaing the impose for hon. members to eoneder whether there ought not to a year, will be relieved, which was not the roe tion of the tax for three veers, in the belief that, if it lie some modification of the great injustice which the tax previously. (Iliac, hear.) At present all farm knees should be found at the end el' the period that the measures undoubtedly worked. (Hear, hear.) lie should like to above 211111. a year paid window tax, whilst no income by which it was accompanied had not accomplishee their know why theuwners and occupiers of land should be de tax was paid until the value arrived at 3001. a year. No purpose, the house would consent to its continuance ; and privet' of the privileges enjoyed by other classes of the coin relief would he given by a reduction of the Moine tax he went on to say that it was obvious that the elects con- mutely—he invent the privilege of returning annually the equivalent to that which will he given by a reduction of the tempi:dot had not yet been prosluced. Now, what did the net produce of their receipts, :mil paying on that net pro window d u ty: whereas, by my proposal, there will right him. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) duce ? Now these owners and occupier. were conipelled to be a material reduction of taxation, in most eases my on that occasion ? Sir Robert l'eel having stated that pay on their nominal Minnie, which was very different amounting to almost an exemption. (Hear, hear.) he believed the tax to be one which pressed mainly on the from their net inconie, Liner they had pied all CWllllll.'l. I shall now proceed to quote some instances of the extent of rich and did not affect the poor, the right - honour- (Hear, hear.) On what ground, then, was it, if we were to relief, my object Acing to put the case fully and fairly he- able gentleman denied that such was its opem• have this us a permanent tax, that the landed proprietor fore the house. (Hear.) I. have nothing to conceal, smd it tine Ile would quote from the debate : "Sir Charlie Wood shouldnot be allowed to pay on theme produce I,tha , income ? is right that the house should know a hat it is I propose. said grounds had twee stated which had led him very touch to Fanner., again, were taxed upon their euppesed profits. In Marylehone and et. l'ancrue they now pay 92,000/.. under acquiesce in the propene'. One was, that the tax was one Ile sincerely trusted that the know would enter fully what I propose they will pay 50.1,410/., being a rtelection that rested exelusively on the rich, and made no reduction into the question of whether the tax was to be penna nt' nearly one-half. In Regent-street, which is the strongest from the employment of artisans. So far from its being a nine Ile was not objecting now to its being mole perms,- case that can be put, the present animmt of the tax is tax exclusively on the rich he believed it pressed on the neat or even to its increine, but he was advocating the 2,2001.; under what I propose 9it will he 1,00/. In Finsbury- labouring population by diminishing the means of giving necessity of its !wing fully and properly adjusted. (Hear, square the present amount is 725/., in future it will them employment —(e hear, hear," and laughter)—and he hear.) be ee3/. In Portman-square the preemt amount of did not believe that the right hon. emelt:num (Ste Robert Mr. W. WILLIANIS staid the people of England were the tax is 725/. in future it will be 61111. In Belgrave- Peel) could think it a tax which • bore exclusively on the now anxiously expecting that smue change , in accordance square there will he an actual increase of 101. (Laughter.) ric h . because if he did, why did he most impow it on Ire- with the expreesed feeling* of the inhabitants of thus But as the gentlemen who reside there hare for the lam% ?" (Hear, hear.) Did the right hon. gentlemen retain large towns, would he made in the amended budget, most part houses in the country niece they will be indent- those opinions ? There was another reason fur omen but he leilieved that great surprise w ould he felt at nifit i el in that way ; Air the reduction n the Limitary sition given by the right hon. gentleman, and he must state finding that un change bed been made. (Ilear.i Tho will be more consieerable, and , taking the two together , it because he was answering a direct attack on the mile", Chancellor of the Exchequer had boasted that Le was they will conme in for as much of the benefit a. their neigh- which he advocated. The right lion. gentleman said now placing the house tax 1111 a rational hooting ; and, no Aare. (Hear.) It was found impossible to get any returns " they must have the question fully and fairly discussed, doubt, if the principle of a house tax were admitted, the from exclusively country district., but I hum a return of whether the income tax was to be mended right hon. gentleman had placed it out such a footing ; but 42 of the hest houses in the six southeni counties, and I as a permanent tax. Let it be discussed on he (Mr. Williems) contended that there was no nettesity find that the effete will he a reduction of the sex its cm n merits, ms its own grounds ; let them not be led on for the imposition of any house tax at all, and from 2,0101. to 51371. (Hear. hear.) In Liverpool step by step into a coulee front which they might not therefore - lie should give the proposal the most the amount of the tax now paid is 19,11e0/.. it will find it possible afterwards to extricate themselves." decided opposition in every stage of its pnigrese. he 9,5001. lo Manchester the present amount is 30.000/. ; ; (('hors and laughter) That was his (Mr. Berries ) view ; (Hear.) A mod extraorilinery error had been 111111 b. in the it will be 15,000/. In Itirminghem it is Its,loo l . ; it will ! and on eloniley next he should, with the permintion of the right hon. gentleman's ialculationse for he had assumed be 8,1001. And in the city which my noble friend (Limit)un- ! knee, advance grounds which, he trusted, would lie that the telling oil in the revenue would equal the amouut can) represents, it will lie reduced from 23,0001. to 5 el)00 1 . ' sufficient to induce the house to pause before they made 11111111 , in the reduction of taxation. 'I his principle was This tax is not a tax on the people but a tax on prnperty.l this tux perpetual. If the house lon the first legitimate entirely erroneous, as would Ise wen suit refieenee to (Hear.) And if the gentlemen behind me who are CATO- opportunity of fulfilling the engagement of parliament the past. The right honourable gentlemen had laid caws for direct taxation ore dissatisfied with t h is tax, 1 do, with respect to this tax—the engagement that it should not greet siren on the great falling off which had taken not know what direct taxation would eatisfy them. (I leer.) I , be permanent, but 'should only centime for a fixed 'wriest place in the revenue previous to the impaition of the propose to repeal that which peewee . meth on that: whose • —no man iii the country could be SO foolielt as to believe ineotne tax. But how did that arise ? The comiumeentent interests lie proems., so much to advocate, and I leave it on! that the tax would ever be taken oft' the shoulders of the ; of it wits in 1439, and it continued during 1310, '4l, and the owners of house property, or, where it is not paid by the, people. In consequence of the understanding conic ; '42, suit ill those four years the expenditure exceeded the l owans of house property, on thou: who occupy houses in I to on the previous evening, he would not then! revenue by 9 r 0,200,001/. ; but, if the limited ex pportim norms . to their (Hear, hear.) There are enter further into the mantel of the income ' penditure of 1433, '3l, 'II, and '36 had nut been $,500,000 houses in this country. Of these 3,IOIMM° will . tax. But he could not sit clown without adverting to some of augmented in the subsequent yeant, the income tax would be totally exempt trent the tax—(wer, hear) —and that j the topics touched upon in the speeeh of the right hon. gen- have been wholly mm ie:nary. (Hear.) Ile had been ' which 1 ',repose to retain will be paid by 400,000 houses I demon. Ile niurvelleil much at the course the right lion. quite surprised to hear the noble lord the member fur I which are the most valuable house , in the country. (Cheers.) gentleman had pursued in reference to what was first and Middlesex (Lord IL. (ienvelior) delivering a lecture to the This, then, is the extent to a hush 1 prepay to retain a' foremost in his train of re:minting, namely, the maintenance metropolitan teembers, and saying that " they had hien . portion of the present tax out hotly, property—getting rid of of a surplus revenue. (Mar, l e an) It was surprising to l out of thier 14111 1 /1 1 /1." (. Hear,' and laughter.) Now this the most part objectionable pa of the tee, and levying it in ; Hal the right hon. gentleman talking so much about main- stiff:ranee betwe et the :woken( the noble lord and the sinees proportion to the annual value of the house, the amount taller); the public credit, when, ;wending to his own sate-, of the metropolitan 1111111lX114 was this—that, if the gentle of relief athinkel will W 1,136,000/. ()tear.) la the propuee; meat, he was ',repining to reduce the eurplus to a sum not men un the to nury Innehee were in their seines, the noble tion which I made with respect to coffee and timber, I do exceeding 400,000/. (Mare In the whole coin.: of hesextw- lord was iu his sIIISVS —(•. Hear," acid continued laugh not know that I can make any change for the better.. knee he der. Berries) had never listened to anything so in- ter)—but that the tuetrupolitau members were influenced (Hear, hear.) And I 'eat adhere to the preposition I' eimeistent Did the retention of 3401001. bear out the right by to consideration , arising from. the ..U. , 4 of the treesury made with regard to both these articles. I meat, to adhere i honourable gentleman's lofty pretensione about muiii- benches, but were solely 'guided in their eimilnet by what to the proposition I then made, namely, a rieluetion of .sne- Mining the public credit, providing amply for the public they considered the interns of their constituents. (Cheer') fourth of the intoned duty on eoll'ee, removing, sit the !atm..' service, and always having a large milieus to insure the Loral It. GROSVENOR. hoped that after the extreordi time, the protective duty to the foil extent on foreign puleic against tensible contingencies? (Hear. hear.) Why nary charge which had just limit suede tie:dust him, the cuff e. The duty on sawn timber iii Zee, end on hewn his scheme was the reverse of all this; and if the reed hum. house would permit him to say a emit in explanation. timber tie, and I still adhere to the proposition I muck • gentleman intended to pursue *ltch a policy he should at (hear, hear.) Ile appealed to hon. member* whether this for retleeing thesek due to 10s. and 7s. Ike (Hear, hear.) ' least have spared his eulogiume on u policy of a different charg e was not utterly destitute of fliutoletion. (Hear, The lon Cu, thew two items will be 40),1100/ e and this, ' diameter. (Ileac, hear.) What had the house to do with ; hear.) The lion. member for Lembeth had :lel:WWII hint Of added to the loss 1111 the window tux, will be a total less to - the iiitentions of Lord Stanley ? (Ikar, hear.) Why did having said thet the inetropoliten mmulieni were e out of the revenue of 1, 436,0001. There will then be after this the right hon. gentleman introduce them in his speech ? I their west," (Loud laughter.) Now, e hat he (Lord IL permanent year a surplus, if Icm cell it surplus, but there I Then? W:114 no iteceesity for doing so in moving the renewal eiresocuor) really did say as s this : le expressed a b e en will be a tenement m ne in of triseooo/. There is of the income-tax. lle would tell the people of Eng- that the metropolitan members "would seem to their .. . . • • - i tee - - ''-- 1 Ir senses." ("Hear, hear," and col:rimed laughter.) In order to vindicate himself, the hon. member for Landreth had said that he (Lord U. (irevenor) was so thoroughly tied hand and foot to the present miaistry that, if they were in their senses, he was in his seises. Now, he did not feel it necessary tee say more in reply to such un accusation, than this—that those whin had returned hint to that house would not return any man who would sacrifice his indepen dence in the manner here alleged. (Hear, hear.) Ile had sat there for many years, and never until that moment had such a charge been brought against hint. lie haul some times differed with the gentlemen nu the treasury and three he had taken ens independent course, whittle had been droned deserving the appruhatima of the 14,900 electors who had returned lain tee that house. (Hear, hear.) Lord DUNCAN said he would nut occupy much of thu attention of the contortive, us many occasions would bo afforded hereafter for the discussion of the budget; it gave him satisfaction to hear, in fir 33333 re eloquent terms than he could use, and that frau hi, right 1 friend the. Chan , cellar of the Exchequer, u detail ut the deep injuries the : window tax inflicted on the working classes of this country. (I I ear.) The noble lord the member forMidd lowa had e wowed lei, surprise ut the burst of indignation with which prc viuus budget had been met. Ile (Lord Duncan) haul joined in ' that burst of indignation, but he could not now c .ur with those who regarded this swop proposition as exactly simi lar to the farmer one. (Hear.) On the contrary, the two prepositions were very distinct, dilleriug totally from one another; and, therefore, it was very possible that dif ferent opi eeio nwof both would lee entertained by the country. With regard to the propositions in the first budget it would be reeollered that the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad endeavoured to retain two-thirds of the window tax oil thu old houses, and that the new house. were to be treated in a very different manner. That appeared a most unjustifiable principle, foul one that could not lee defended. (Hear.) Anotlwr objection to the original proascsel was this, that the number of Windt/111i in inniStSCOUld only be ascertained by another assessment tl woughout the kingdom, and then, Inc her tiered, it would be found that houses bud a far larger number of windows than was supposed, thus raising the amount of the tax upon the individual occupiers. (Ileac) There was another objection—nano ly, that houses w filch were mow exempt from taxation would be included in the original plan. (Ileac) Now, with respect to the present plan, which certainly seemed to prove the truth o f the old WNW', that " seetend thoughts are best," it involved the total abandonment of the window tax. In the Krona place, relief was to lon extended to tier amount of Z. 00,04101. a year mune than the original phut contemplated ; and, in the third, 1.10,000 houses would be relieved altogether by the present phut. Without pledging himself to support this ourund plan, he would content himself with saying that he considered it far preferable to the former one. (liver, hear.) Sir Lt. lIALL said that as he was one of the members who west thought to bee "out ut his senses"— (a laugh) —he might he permitted perhaps to make a few observation, tie the how.ee on this subject. Ile contended that the noble lord tier member fur Middlesex ought rather to have spoken of the Chancellor of the Exchequer being "out of his senses'," than of the metropolitan members being out of theirs; fur while the Chancellor of the Exchequer had ehangral his mind very suddenly, the metro diWu had not changed their minds at all • rated greatly that the right hon. gentleman had re. not seen the expediency of proposing the renewal of this income tax under a new time; hut he would postpone what he had to say on this *abject until the question came to be morn regularly diseussetl. With regard to the proposal of the right hon. baronet the Chanceiler of the Exchequer in reterence to the window tax, he would only any that he wa, of opinion that by ',rumor ccuuonty and reduction of expenditure that impost might have ht'ee entirely repealed without the necessity of bringing forward any substitute. Mr. SPOON lilt thought that the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer ough t . nut to let tic night pass without some mute distinct intimation than he had Yet offered, as to tin modifications he had to propose,if any, cu the income tax. N('' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that the proposal WM, to renew the income tax fur the 64M0 term for which it had hitherto been renewed—vie., for three years. With regard to the details of the schLdule,lw thought the hon. gentlemen would see that it was latter to reserve the diseu,sioa on these points. There had been numerous objections uttered that evening, to schedules A, 14 and 1); and to unravel the complicated WO/ would obviously Ivo very iiimuvenient on this occasion. !lc was prepared to go fairly into the fullest discussion of all these matters; but the house, he hoped, would ive that it was not cape . perceiv, 'heist to cater on such a debate at present. (Hear.) Mr. HENLEY cow,idered that the extraordinary state ments made that evening by the Chancellor of the Exche quer were of a tendency most destructive to public credit. The right honourable gentleman 'started with a theory that it was indisiwnsable, for the preser vation of public credit that, in all financial arrangements, a large margin should always be left available at the din po,al of the Chancellor of the Exchequer; but he had totally ailed, in his present proposals, in carrying that