The Express. — London, England, 1851-06-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 1101;83 OF LORDS.—MONDAT, loss 16. The LORD COUNCILLOR took him meat at fire o'clock. CHANCERY REFORM. Lord BROUGHAM, is tins • petition from * miter fa Chancery, ag of the delay which ones fro= the reformat of eseetiose to the Matteis' oats* sailed attention to the a6olat• mosaity of imapriming the alesinarratioo of Jetties in the Coati of Clisessy. The week and learned lord mid that the details of the morns, introduced by Lord John , Rowell, a far as he had had the opportunity of atteottim met with his entire approbation ; bat3herfaitopared to say that they west Ikt enough. SbOTCR REPRESSMATIVE PEERS. TM which bed taker' place id the falai of the royal proclamation for OM election of a Snack ngnpentative peer to till up the present vacancy, more than a month baring elapsed. The Marquis o(I4.I9DOVINE said that no unneecsaat7 delay should take plies in the issue of the royal proelama deo. No official notion of thi lracaney had been given. The Earl of EOLINTON 'Loped the noble marquis would osonder this nodes es tem* from the country more than been himself. Earl EITZWILLTAI thOught the government would net be authoriesd in prderieg the issue of the proclama tion until they had received some official notice of the • secrecy. The Marquis of .LAWSDOWNE said the cam was pre similir to that of .• peer succeeding to a title on the death of hi. father. Lord ItY.DESDALE'thoiqht the subject was one worthy or consideration, and betinPed.the government would intro does some measure with the view of making the time shorter. The delay which occurred, after a dissolution of parliament, in assembling a sew parliament, arose from the tee occupied in electing representative peer.. BOARD OF WOII.ES (IRELAND). Ms Earl of DEVON moved for the correspondence be tween the Board of Works in Ireland relative to the forma lise of a new road at Kilkerter, in the county of Galway, tegeth.r with certain return. relating thereto.—Ordered. The Highways (South Wide.) Bill having paned through committ,, and the Public louses (Scotland) Bill been read the third time, and passed, • The holm adjourned st 20 minutes after six o'clock. HOUSE OP COMMONS.—Mosavt. JUNE 16. The SHIA KINK took theLiT at 4 o'clock. PRI VAT'S UUSISESS. . ... COV4II,IIIIIATIoN or 1,711" e AMINDMILSTS.-84. An• drew'' Railway Bill.—Agreed to. Tut au Krl I/INOS. Bath Improvement, Markets, Water works, and Beth Cuminanaor F.reemen's figate_; European and Aurvican Fruiting Telegraph Company. de. ; Itehen Bridge and Roads with amendment.) ; Trinity College (Dublin) ; Wicklow Harbour (with amendment.) ; ham Improvement (with anteridmentl ; PUBLIC BUSINESS. rwriltuNs.ritEsKNTED. TAILLIASIENTAKT iiilollll.—by Mr. A. HASTIR, from the town council of Pai.ley, praying for parliamentary re term. Known Hormel. ERSIIAW, sit from eon gregation of protestant &Iraqi% Leigh, Lancashire ; and the frith protestant dithenters, to Doke's-alley Chapel, Bolton. Lancashire, against the Regimen Donato. AU•Tit %LIAM *MAIN COMMiII; NICATION. —By Mr.STANS PIK LH. frum the merebaub end manufacturer. in Had donfield, consumers of Anstrallen wool, praying for direct Mem communication, by Panama, with Sydney. Tits II A ILMIeII ESAU. Tloll.—By Mr. BANK ES, from electors in Harwich, complaining of the undue interference of certain of her Majoity's Cirgnni-how.c utfie..rs at the re set election. The hors. menabtt gave iodic., that he would this day (Tuesday) tante that the petition be printed with the vote., with a view to dm appointment of a committee inquire into Hos allegations ad the petition. Tuts MUNUAIIIA:4II to TURILIT. —By Mr. T. DI1N COM114„ from Hennimthey, praying the Itriti.h govern• meet to take steps to prothth the liberation of toe Iltuaga• Man thiko in Turkey. FOREIGN TARIFFS. Mr. LAIROUtilhlt,E, in roply to Mr. A , said that the cosine formerly punned, iu transmitting borne from our amassals abroad ',port...realm:dug change., in fun ign tariffs, bad caused such voluminous and inconvenient matter to be mmeivod, that it had hoop resulted to empower our consols expend am dl sums of meaty on the spit in getting the information put into sham; and he had hopes that the returns would now sery shortly ho rucein.il and bo placed ma the tilde ,if the house. ACCIDENTS BY RAILWAYS, STEAM-BOATS, AND MACIIINERy. Lard NAASaave notice that ha would this day (Tends') gall the attention of government to the recent frequency of accidents, followed oy loss of life, in connexion with rail ways strant.bouta, and JlBACilkSay , and put the question whether the government purposed any incoture with a view W the prevention, as far no pousiftle, of such calamities. PRI vvrx AND PUBLIC BUSINEsS. Mr. DISRAELI inked w►at vnie the understanding on the part of Ins Majesty', government as to the time at w►ich public business was to trogia and private business M ecw• on the meeting of t►e we. Ile usually came hewn to the house in the Isaief that public bourn was to ►sgia, in pursuance of the arrangement which had been made. at halipast I; but be eviction found that the order • Irmasllteis,l to. Wu U. GREY replied that the order made was, that public business should begin as sent as possible after half past 4 ; and a• the private business sa, not now great in sunning, perhsp• it would be advi.ible for the future, during the me...on. to coransimas the public business pit o:hely at ►alf•pint 4. TUE MERCANTILE MAILINE ACT.—TIIE NAVICIATION LAWS. In reply to que,tiona from Mr. J. S 011.0 A RS, Mr. LA ROUCIIKEK stated that the bill which he had prepared, for the pupas: of altering .01114: points in the Mercantile Art, would be ready ia a few days. Mr. IlliltßlES referred to the petition, which he had presented from various commercial communities aaainst the alteration in the navigation laws, and be wished to know if the government would assist him in obtaining a day for eating the atteution of the boon: to the subject. Mr. LABOUCIIKItE said government could not assist the right bun. gentleman in procuring any day. It was open to the right hoot. gentleman to relax' his own time. TilK SCOTCII UDOES. _____ Mr. BMW tn. .I.laed to know what course the govern ment intended to take iu respect to tilling up the vacancy which had just occurred in the list of the Scotch juitte,? The committee on official salaries last year had nude • strong report on the subject, recommending a diminution in the nurnln•r, as being unneemsarily large in reference to the work to be done. Lord J. ILI SMELL replied that on a former occasion, on a vacancy 0 -earring o• the Scotch bench, • .diet com mittee had been appo:ntkil to inquire into tLc m evedty of that vacancy up. As far us he could recollect, the eo•tmittee had been of opinion that no reduction could properly be made. The matter (Lord J. Russell was under stood to my) croak) be further considered. THE CAKE OF MR. WARD AND THE VENEZUE LAN GOVERNMENT. Mr. DISHARI.Tii;t ;quemtiuna;T;it; intentions of the government with respect to the case of Mr. George Ward, as English merchant at Cm:was, who had been arbitrarily isMeened hy the Venezuelan government. PALMHESTON said, this .C. 1.1 outs of a great many earn in which British subjects bad suffered the gravest in justice from the governments and inferior authorities of loath America. Mr. Ward had been confined without the shadow of a pretence, and bar.MMesty's government had required, not only his immediate liberation, but that he should be paid a compensation of 1141. a day during the pe- Mod of his confinement, reserving to themselves the right of demanding further redress on his behalf, if necemary, and his ease had bees for some time under their eousides HUNGAIIWi AND POLISH REFUGEES IN - Tuft Y. Mr. LRQUHART asked the Foreign Secretary what oteditions had been attached to the liberation of Ilunpurian sad Polish r,lagees from confinement in Turkey ? In the drat place, wee ono of the conditious that they shall not re tains to Turkey ? In the neat place, if so, was that condi . hem sweated to by her Majesty .government ? nod, thirdly, was there any ground for the behif universally entertained by the parties concerned that her Majesti 'a I,4overnment . iad not only assented to but had advised and originated that condition ? In short, was the expulsion of these re- Posen from Turkey accomplished by Oreat Britain; and an. by Russia or Austria ? Lard PALIIRItATUN —I have no positive knowledge of the renditions that may have beersiattached to the departure of those l'olish and Hungarian refugees from Turkey; hut I have reason to believe that there is attached that condition to which the hon. gentleman has alluded, via., that they shall not return again . to Turkey. With regard to the Polish subjects, it is quite clear abet such a condition is en tirely in conki;mity with the treaties between Turkey' end Russia. In fact, it wan the alternative which the Sultan was entitled to choose when Hawks required the surrender of those Poles, and the Sultan ebose their expulsion from • the Turkish territory. With regard to them there can be no doubt. With regard to the Hungarian refugees, being • aubjeeta of Austria, the obligations of the Sultan towards Austria undoubtedly are, that he !hall not pi unit his terri tory to be made a place front whence any attempt might procetd to create disturbance in the Austriau demi sloes. The Austrian governin..nt require that as a mode of 'elevating the obligations of the /Sultan he shall keep such laagerous persons ;confined within his territories. It • was found, however, that the Sultan would fulfil hie obligstions of good neighbourhood towards Austria if he sent these Hungarians out of his dominions. The Sultan has an unquestionable right to attach to their de tartars the condition which the hon. member madions : and it will be very much to the advantage of all parties that. by mot returning to the Turkish territories, these Hungarians shall not give tier as future discussioos, cm be/Twine to themativaa. to Turkey, and to Austria and • Russia. (Hear, heck) . • Mr. UH,QUHAAT wished pa:titularly to understand, ' hod or had set thK British gosentmcnt assented to this *sedition • _ _ _ Lai rAmassroao—sm litritish government has not bps stiquiree oastY sitilettola 011 to refuse that e•milition let Lem* is saying that from the ne.t the ad gem sigbiehmer Ilhe Ilarkisi government was to eat ,aboargam. i= t r et 4between it and the go. meniniMell Mimuis • " • thew persons froin the . _ 4.I.IIVIMUITY - VOW &SION . . lewd J, 114111111LLyta nosy sb Mr. Smut, stated that it ieseeleheislaolion • the flefeleateat to suspend the MOtte university muunimices while the petition e r presented from Oxford •••• • laming of its illegality wee itiM waiting for decision by •to• -r tribmpa. SMITHFIELD • • ... • • Mr 0. GREY took that c• ~1 2 1,„'''T ` . w Nat e void net popes db. 8 • 110110111110 W la sisrevience of P , , emend aneemdeeente to pro •„„„,, `11:'• • • tics in the seinlaii mart. • '''"" • to • ip wit • •' o'clock ia Saturday. _ WESTERN ISLA DS SCO ) FLAND: Mr. COWAN after alluding to the &saves which still existed in the Western Islands of Scotland, and pull ! milady Skye, said that when he had last adverted to the subject be lad understood from the right hon. baronet that ! he expiated to receive very soon the report of the gentle ! max do lid been seat to Skye, Sir John 111'Neill, end he widad sew to ask whether the right hon. baronet was yet in poserisa of the report ; or if not, when he ex pected ie retelve it. Sir G. GREY replied that he had not yet received the report, the preparation of which required a great deal of are. - - ii POOR LAWS. In answer to Mr. Alderman SIDNEY, who wished to know something of the intentions of the government re garding the amendment of the poor law and the law of settlement, Sir 6.08EY replied that the President of the Board of Trade had a bill prepared upon the subject, but it wu scarcely necessary to remind the hon. gentleman that there had hitherto been no opportunity of entertaining it in the house, or that that was the rums it had not been intro duced. CUSTOMB BILL. On the order of the day being moved for the second read ing of the above bill, Mr. DISRAELI wished to state the course he intended to pursue in reference to the Customs Bill, and the Inha bited Howe Duty Bill. By the vote which limited the duration of the income and property tax :to one year, one large source of the national income bad become merely pro visional; and under such a state of things it became a ques tion how far a due regard to the maintenance of the public credit would justify any diminution of the permanent sources of the national income, such as would be the cue if the bills in question became law. He did not wish to take a precipitous course ; but as an individual member of par liament, he could not incur the responsibility of allowing the financial policy which the government scented inclined to puns., to passed unchallenged. Ile should feel it to be his duty, should he not induce Mr. }ferries to undertake the ova, to ask the house to reconsider the question. His wish was to have a calm, dispassionate, and strictly financial discussion. If Iced John Russell would allow both bill to pass the mead reading under protest, and take the com mittee on Monday seat, Mr. Disraeli would, in the course of the week, lay on the table the proposition he intended to submit. . Lord J. RUSSELL stated that the further consideration of the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill had been fixed for Monday, and it would be inconvenient to alter that arrangement. When the bills were read a woad time, a day might be fixed fur the committee. . _ After a few word, from the CHANCZLLOR of the Ex- Mr. DISRAELI, in reply, remarked that any day would suit him. Ile merely wished to giro fair notice of his intention. Mr. HUME wished to know if Mr. Disraeli intended to challenge the principle upon which the bills rested ? Ilse, the discussion should go on then. Mr. DISRAELI did not intend to proceed on the com mercial principle. lie merely wished to ask whether it M. expedient, prudent, and politic, when the financial arrange , menu bad become et•entially provisional, to diminish the permanent resources of the country. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday next. INHABITED HOUSE DUTY DILL. ..... On the order of the day fur the second reading of the above bill, Mr. W. WILLIAMS stated his objections to the substi tution of a house duty fur a window tax. The hill W 44 then read 4 second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday nest. SUPPLY. On the order of the day going into committee of cup ply being moved, Sir D. J. NORREYS intimated that he should bring for ward his motion revecting the new House of Commune when the vote for the new Houses of Parliament was proposed. The house then resolved itself into committee, Mr. BER NAL in the chair. EOIIS ESTIMATES, -, On the vote for the sum of 97,7471., for the expense of the maintenance and repairs of the royal palaces, public buildings, &e., being proposed, Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to the vote. He had given notice to the Woods and Forests so to prepare the vote that the house might know what amounts were expended upon the palates, and he had also given notice to the noble lord that he should propose to defer the vote. He hoped there would be no objection to that course, for the expendi ture upon these royal palaces had been extravagant and wasteful, snil some check ought to be put upon it by the house. It was monstrous to find that since the reign of George 111. millions of money had been espended upon these palaces, and yet that the expense, were still going on year after year. (Hear, hear.) There were no fewer than nine palaces maintained at the public expense. If the noble lord would not consent to defer this vote he should divide the committee on the questiou of a postponement of it until a statement of the particulars was made. The CHAIRMAN said it was not competent for the hon. gentleman to move a postponement. lie might move a negative to the vote. Mr. lIUME asked Lord John Russell if it was intended to confines the encroachment upon Kensington-gardens after the time fixed for clueing the Industrial Exhibition. Lord J. RUSSELL stated that the use of Kensington gardens to equestrians was merely temporary, and would cease when the Exhibition closed. Should the like neces sity arise, he could not say but the !UM accommodation would be repeated. Mr. HUME expressed himself satisfied with the answer, and proceeded to analyse the estimates. Ile stronly ob jected to the public being called upon to defray the expense of repairing edifices inhabited by persons who lived rent free. Hs objected to the item fur constructing hot houses fur the Duchess of Kent. Ile also objected to the people being charged with keeping up the buildings at Hampton Court and Kensington Palaces. At Hampton Court, indeed, there were public gardens, and no man was more sensible of the enjoyment the people had received from the opening or their gardens, and it was the last place e,oneeruing which he should be disposed to find fault; but when he saw a cost of 6,0001. for merely stables and out-houses, he could nut refrain from directing public atten tion to such abuses. A select committee ought to be ap pointed to go through all these items, and see what charges were right, such as the reparation of the palace building, as distinguished from those charges which were for the private accommodation of the persons who were inmates. Then there was the sum of 1201. fur the house of the Knights of Windsor. Why, an estate had been left to maintain the house of the Knights of Windsor, but the Chapter of St. George's had got hold of the money. He desired the committee to inquire into the matter; and four years ago, the boo. Secretary to the Admiralty under took to have an examination, because 3,0001. had been charged fur alterations in the house of the knights. He repeated that these revenues had been absorbed by the , clergy of the Chapter of St. George's, Windsor, and it was, therefore, • rubbery upon the public to charge this' sum upon them. He complained also of the dilatory un willingness displayed by the government to artisan/ into any questions of this kind, if they affected the church, or any part of the royal family. There being a leaning that way, all that he asked was that • committee should sit annually, and stand between the go vernment and the public, in order that proper economy should be observed. lie objected to this 5201., and a variety of other charges, which he mould not weary the patience of the house in going through. Whilst they were appointing a committee in order to effect reductions in the judicial and Wavle' salaries they were voting away a sum of 97,0001. for parks and gardens. it was a mockcry to strike off small sums front salaries, and continue thus to waste the public money. Having referred to one or two minor items, he trusted that the noble lord would grant a committee fur the purpose of going over these details before the sum were voted next session. LonlJ. RUSSEL said that auy hon. member, on looking at these miscellaneous estimates, would find that although there was set down about 130,0001., which had not formerly come under that head, there was a diminution of the sum total to the extent of 117,0001. so compared with last year. This was a considerable reduction. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member had alluded to the sum of 2,6151., for royal gardens at Frugmore, and had said it was unneces sary that so much expense should be incurred on account of the Duchess of Keut's residence. If the hon. member had paid attention to this matter, he would have known that a few loan ago the royal table had been furnished by several gardens distant from each other, and causing the outlay of considerable expense, which was to a great extent useless. Dix (Lord J. Russell's) late lamented friend Lord Dessborough, when at the head of the Woods and Forests, had propo ed that these various kitchen gardens should be given up, and that in place thereof one large and complete kitchen garden should be made on the best principles at Frogmore. This had ap peared to him to be a very eecroomical plan; it had been adopted, and hence the expense. (Hear, hear.) He did not think that it would serve any good purpose for a com mittee to go through such items. What would the hon. member think if the gardener should, in coming before such a committee, state that there was not a eneltient quantity of early potatoes or strawberries, and that there were too few peaches and melons—would he contradict the assertion of the gardener or give way to the additional expense ? (laughter.) The hon. member wished to pay the greatest personal respect to the Duchess of Kent, bat the ob jection be had taken did not seem veey graceful. Fur a committee to inquire into all these details every year would not, he thought, be desirable. The WON WY fully aware of the principle on which the estimates WON made rap. (Hear.) He must, however, beg the ben. member (Mr. Hume) to observe that of late years additional provi sions had been made for the public, and that considerable expense bad been incurred ou Hampton Court and other gardens. He would mention one item, for the hon. mem ber was willing to refer to all with which he could possibly and fault, although he forgot to notice where improve ments had been effected. (Hear.) Considerable expense had been laid out on the gardens at Kew, but that expense bad been well repaid in the increased numbers which had flocked to visit the gardens, and in the care which was taken of the grounds. It ap e , eared that in 1841 the numberof visitors to gardens had been 9,174, while in IMO they had in ttiwasi 179,000, se that darter; last year 170,000 more THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY_ EVENING, JUNE 17, 1851. had had the enjoyment, and, he hoped, many of them the instruction, of going to these gardens and getting away from the atmosphere of the metropolis. Wit h napeet to the other hems toleblek reimence. bad mosK 1104 not thiptclaaceriry 2he shoe* en them. line few word( m Cot. LWEY =dee the dlasetions of It eon mittee igpule thoseAmical talking figures of the Ben and nuitmli‘a4, been plated in front of Buckingham Palace ? It appeared to hint that the proper plave fur them wee at the east end of the National Gallery', opposite St. Martin's Church, where there was a figure of Britannia, better I known as BetV Martin. (Laughter.) Lord SEYMOUR was aerry that the guUunt °Meg "rat not, shtiatteti with the figutee r4orred to. (Laughter.' They had been made by a person who had made a good many other, connected with the new houses of parliament,--(cos tinned laughter) —and knowing that they were entrusted to a person of eeperience, it had not been thought necessary to interfere. Mr. W. WILLIAMS hoped there would be no objection to postpone this vote until the report he had moved fir were prited. Ile would feel indebted if the noble lord could justify such items as those for Dun fermline Abbey, Arbrmth Abbey, Elgin Cathedral, Dun drennan Abbey, Dunblane Abbey, and St. Andrew's Cathedral. These were establishments which ought to be supported out of the ecclesiastical revenues. To the ex pouses set down for the Ecclesiastical Commission he had always taken exception. He wished to know why the country should be taxed for it, and why the expenditure should not be defrayed out of the revenues of the church. Under one batch they had a charge of 691. Os. 2d. for the Ecclesiastical Commission, and under another an item for the same commission of 5111. He would like to know why the public were burdened with this charge, and also why it was put down in two different places. lio also objected to the item of 41,0001. for the parks and gardens. He again appealed to the noble lord to postpone the vote. After a few words from the CHANCLLLOR of the EXCEIR QUZIt. and Mr. W. Nyl L L , . . . Viscount DUNCAN said he was the calm of this vote being entered on tho miscellaneous estimates. Tho hon. member (Mr. Williams) would And that this sun if 41,8291. was not additional expenditure, but that suc► Mums had hitherto been defrayed fr,m the land revenue. Mr. BRIGHT wished to direct the attention of the com mittee to the item of SW'. for lighting and water rates to the house of the British ambassador at Paris. The oAkial salaries committee last year, while discussing the subject of the French embassy, had thought that it should be reduced to the rank of a commission, and that the salary instead of being 10,0004 per annum, should be reduced to 5,0001. One argument against this arrangement was that the house was so very large and costly, that it would require something like 2,0001. per annum to defray the ordinary and inevitable expenses. Viscount P. acknowledged that the official salaries committee had recommended that the salary of our representative in Paris should not exceed 5,000/. per an num, and that the office should be reduced to the rank of a commission. The government, however, had thought that it would not be consistent with the position of this country to apply such a principle to the embassy ►t Paris It had been proposed at various times to lessen the expense by sell ing the house and purchasing another. Neither did he think this would be good policy. A house of such a description would not at present sell in Paris for anything of conse quence. Mr. BRIGHT said that in the official salaries committee last year there had been *difference of opinion as to the stew which should be paid to the British ambassador at P. The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) and the hon. member for Coventry had been in favour of 10,000/. ; others were for 1,0001. Another proposal was, that it should be 8,0001. The reason why 8,0001. had not been at once consented to was, that it was thought impossible for the ambassador to live in the present house on less than 10,0001., such was its magnitude. For some years the eats. blishment had not been maintained at less than 14,0001., whereas one half of that sum might have sufficed. Lord .1. RUSSELL stated that he had not been present in committee whin this matter was discussed. Afterwards, however, in discussing the subject the government had thought it desirable to keep up the embassy and reduce the salary to B,OOW. Colonel SIBTIIORP said that the prcseut government had no more caro fur the pockets of the people than he had found the right hon. gentleman the Home Srcretury,thc other night, have for the lives of her Majesty's subjects. (A laugh.) 'f hough the people were heavily taxed the money was ex pended without any care or consideration. Farmers were in a state of starvation almost, and tradesmen found that their trade had gone from them, as he always said it would, through that infernal Crystal Palace. (Laughter.) Some conversation ou minor items having taken place be tween Lords Duncan and Seymour, and Messrs. N . South, Mastic, and Bankes, Mr. III:ME wished much that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer would go over to Belgium for a week, and see, with his own eyes, the admirable manner in which the es timates were scrutinini,ed there. Colonel SALWEY said he found that in 1849-50 there were two items of 6,5101. and 10,0001., and since then there had been other items, making altogether 34,1131. for the supply of water to Windsor Castle. He wished to know if they had come to an end of that expenditure. He believed that these included soine other items, which were insidi ously lumped together; but if he took them out the total expenditure for water would still be 30,0001. Lord SEYMOCIt said this would be the last expenditure for this purpose. It was fur the construction of is large re servoir to preserve the castle from fire. Colonel SALWEY said lie did not grudge the expendi ture for Windsor Castle so much as he did that fur ether palaces, because he believed it was the only one worthy of the name of a royal palace; but he did consider this an enormous expenditure for the supply of water. Ile wished to make a few observations with regard to the item of 3.501. for the repair of the houses of the Military Knights of Windsor. This was one of those abuses which was a great scandal to the church, the intentions of the founder having been entirely disregarded and set aside by I the dean and canons of Winibor , —(he a r hear ) — who had appropriated the property to themselves. It was perfectly well known to every member of that house that certain 1 sums had been voted at various times for this purpose ; but it was not so well known that there were certain trusts charity out of which these expenses ought to come. Edward VI., Queen Elizabeth, and James 1., set apart property to provide military knights with a proper and sufficient main tenance, and to repair their houses in case of need. It was ' perfectly manifest that this must have been the case, for in the reign of Queen Mary, and in five subsequent years, the total amount of these revenues was act apart for building these houses ; and it we, perfectly clear, if the revenues were applied to such a purpo,e, that the military knights were entitled to receive proper pay from the dean and canons, which they slid not. All that the dean and canons allowed them was one shilling a day ; just one - half that which he allowed to his agricultural labourers. Was that honest or just ? The military knights were founded 503 years ago, at the same time that the knights of the order of the Garter were founded, to whom they were an appendage. The evident intention of the founder was to provide for such old soldiers as had served him during the war, but Edward 111. in an evil hour placed these unfortunate knights under the care and superintendence of the dean and canons of Windsor, uniting them as a corporation, of which the knights formed a component part. Now, whilst the revenues of the dean and canons of Windsorliad increased tenfold, they had leR these unfortunate men with a shilling a day, and they did not repair the houses the knights lived in, but made them a burden on the public. He considered this a very Imes case, and that if they were to lump together the whole of the estimates they would not find a grosser case of misappro priation of public property. It was not his intention, how ever, to take up the time of the house with it now, as he had a motion on the subject for next Tuesday, but he should confine himself at present with moving that this sum of 5.301. be disallowed. Sir G. °HEY remarked that if this Nam of 5,50/. were disallowed the only result would be that the military knights would have to pay it out of their own pockets. Colonel SALWEY said that was not the case. He de nied that the knights could he called upon to pay it. The poor knights strongly objected to this money being laid out. The sum ought to come out of the revenues of the estates, and it was the bounden duty of the government to ice that that was done. Sir 0. GREY observed that when he said the poor knights would have to limy the money out of their own pockets, he meant if the houses were repaired at all. The cons,queuce of disallowing the vote would be that the houses would not be repaired. With regard to the general question he was bound to say it was a otnetly legal question, and it would take a great deal of time to go into it now. The matter was inquired into by a former government, who put a case before their law officers, the late Sir William Follett and the present Chief Baron, who were of opinion that government would not be justified in interfering with it, and that if the claim were substantiated at all it must be in a court of law. Col. SALWEY asked if the right hon. gentleman would lay that opinion on the table of the house. After a few words from the CHANCELLOR or THE Ex- CHZQUIR and Mr. MCIIR, Sir 3. GRAIIAM said he was not at all prepared for this question being discussed this evening, but he thought this question required the careful attention of the committee. As to the legal question, it was quite clear that considering the smallness of the allowance made to the knights, they were unable to repair the houses themselves, and if the vote was ' not passed they would remain without repair. Colonel SALWEY said under all the circumstances of the case, as he was to bring it before the house to-morrow week, he would not divide the house on the present occa sion. 1 Sir G. GREY said he had told his hon. a n d gallant friend that they could not produce the confidential opinion of the law officen of the crown. The vote was then agreed to. The neat vote was a sum not exceeding 41,8291. for de ' fraying the expenses of the parks. Viscount DUNCAN inquired why the list did not in clude Hampton Court Park, Bushey and Richmond Parks? Lord SEYMOUR replied that those parks would not need any particular expense. Viscount DUNCAN drew the noble lord's attention to the report of the Commissioners of Woods and Forests for last year, when the expenses of Richmond Park alone were set down at upwards of 5,0001. (Hear.) Col. SIBTIIOIIP reminded the noble lord (Lord Sey mour) that what might be an inconsiderable sum to him might he a large one to the public. For his own part, he (the gallant colonel) would be very sorry to trust his private purse to the management of the Woods and Forests. (A laugh.) In addition to the estimate for Kennington Igardens, there was, on another page, a sum for taking down the brick wall on the lower sid e , an d replacing it with iron rails. Why were not all these items put together ? Dividing them in this ass= looked very seek lske k double-dealing mode of proceeding. (A laugh.) fkrrp melt money collected for their trumpery glees he shenld have thought they .would have had Nome to spare, and he should have reeiSsunended that a little of it be given to the poor knight. of Windsor; but instead of that he found an estimale - of 10651. 17s. pro posed to granted to the commission for the salaries of secretaries, clerks, de. (Hear, hear.) While on this sub ject he would take the opportunity of saying that the state ment which had been inserted in the newspapers to the effect that he had visited the Exhibition was wholly untrue. He had never been in it nor near it; and he never meant I . t to dose, unless it should be necessary to protect her Majesty's subjects, in which case ho should most zealously press the arguments/es baculinun. on the attention of the unruly. (Laughter.) He loved the people of England, and he had a right to love them ; and therefore it was that be felt com pelled to set his face against the Exhibition, for he looked upon it as a cruel infringement upon their rights, a shame ful robbery of our native industry, and a gross insult to the public. (Laughter.) After a few words from Mr. Hume, Lord Seymour, and 'Viscount Duncan, Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered that the number of per sona in parks who wore what used to be called " Lincoln green," but what ho supposed would now be styled " Sey mour green," were useless, rind their salaries wasted. The estimate also mentioned lodges. There were 130 of these lodges, but by that somewhat homely term was meant what were in point of fact mansions, and these had been granted to some of the first people in the land. lie should like to know if the tithes and parochial rates upon such lodges were included in the item for those charges? There was also an item fur 5,0971. for Regent's-park, which was one third more than the entire coat of lighting, watering the streets, paving , and, in short, of the whole management of the parish of St. Marylebone, and the work was not so well done. He thought, therefore, that Regent's-park must be ill looked after, and he hoped the noble lord would tura his attention to the subject. Ile wished to know, too, whether the sums subscribel to the gardens or received for admis sion were paid into the Exchequer, or whether they went towards the management of the park, and this vote was for the balance required. Lord SEYMOUR said the vote covered the whole ex penses of the parks. In answer to other questions the noble lord also stated that there was a deputy ranger, but he had no allowance beyond a cottage. The gardens of Chelsea Hospital had lately been thrown open to the pub lic ; and it was thought that in making the new Battersea bridge they would Ise able to obtain sufficient stull' from the river to fill up the canals. That would give a great deal more room for garden, and greatly increase the healthiness of the hospital. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said that when the late governor of the hospital died, it was determined not to appoint a auccessor unless he would promise that the public should be admitted. Ile (the noble lord) wrote to the Duke of Wellington on the subject, and his grace immediately went over to Chelsea, and made the necessary arrangements. (Hear, hear.) After some further coneersation, the vote was agreed to. The next vote 3,529/. fur the expense of providing temporary accommodation fur the houses of parliament, &c., was, after a short conversation, agreed to. The next vote was 116,3851., the charge of works at the new housss of parliament. Viscount DUNCAN said it had been dated, at the close of last session, that the new House of Commons would he ready for occupation immediately after Easter in the present session. Ile now wished to know when there was a prospect of this tat.ing place—if indeed there was any prospect of the new house being occupied at all ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, regretting that the hon. member for Lancaster (Mr. Greene) was pre vented by Moose from being in the house that night, said he did nut believe the new house would be ready fur permanent occupation this session. lie thought it desirable that they should have one or two experimental sittings in it in the course of the ses.ion, to try how the new arrangements an swered. (A laugh.) Mr. WA %ITN said he should be glad to know whether, now that the alterations were made, anybody could hear or be heard there ? He understood the cost of these altera tions had been upwards of 14,0001. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he did not remember the sum voted for that purpose ' but he was sure the expenditure would be kept within that sum. His impression was that it was either 11,0001. or 16,0001. Mr. HUME said this was a proof of 'he advantage which would have arisen from referring the matter to a separate committee. The way in which this business had been con ducted was literally a farce. They were now asked to vote 67,800!. " on account of the carcase works of the buildings generally, and fur the ordinary finishing, of the official re sidences fur the Speaker and other officers." Then there was a further sum of 11,2001. " on account of contingent works external to the buildings." What were those external contingent works? For " warming and ventilating works - other 8,0001. was asked, after the expen diture of so many thousands on the same object. For "fittings, fixtures, and furniture," there was an item of 13,5001. • "fur superintendence and contingent ex pews," 9,00/.; " on account of new arrangements in Dr. Reid's apparatus," &c., 1,105•.; and " the salaries of Dr. Reid knd his assistants," 1,2801. It was stated in a note to this estimate that the ornaments were to be finished in nine yews from the Ist of April, 1851, which would be in 1860 —would the house not be ready fur permanent occupation till then ? (Laughter.) Nothing could be more discredit able to the character of the House of Commons than the building of these houses. (lad they taken his advice four or five years ago and removed Mr. Barry, the houses would now have bees finished ; u it was, he had no hope of ever seeing them completed as lung as the architect was per mitted to spend the public money in building roofs that were useless, then taking them down, getting fresh money voted, and putting up other experimental roofs—all in de fiance of the wishes of the house. Ile blamed the goverment and the Chancellor of the Exchequer; it was on them the re aponsibility rested and not on the hon. member for Lan' aster. The total cost would very nearly approach two millions, ; and after all this expenditure there was not an apartment in the whole building fit for occupation. The new roof that hail been put into the House of Commons quite destroyed the effect of the architecture; and yet the architect was supposed to be a man of taste, and to carry out everything conformable to his design. It would be necessary to put new roofs to the whole of the committee-rooms, and to make an entre-sol in each; for nothing could be heard in them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his hon. friend would remember that when the matter was before the house last session Tarioua alteration, ■nd im- provemcuts had been suggested in the new House of Com mons, and hail been adopted, very much fur the convenience of members of parliament; and it wa. thought much better to have a small contingent fund, out of which to defray the cost of those alterations, than to throw them upon the esti mate which had been voted for other purposes. He wax not responsible in any way for the plan of this building ; it had been settled by the houses of parliament who had taken it out of the hands of the then government, and ap pointed their own committee, and that committee had settled the whole scheme. All that the government could be responsible for was the carrying out of the plan of the committee. The alterations had been made, and they very fully carried out the intentions of the committee. Mr. HUME asked what was the use of having an archi tect at all if he would not set on the instructions given Sian After a few words from Mr. WAWN and the CUANCELLOI of the Excitant:ma, The vote was agreed to, u was a sum of 7,000!. "to wards defraying the expense of the erection of a general repository for public records" (in all 45,320/.), Lord SEYMOUR stating, in answer to Mr. Hume, that the proposed building would receive the whole of the re cords in the several detached building. new existing. 61,41111., "on account of the works of the new packet harbour and harbour of refuge at Holyhead, and to defray the expense of the present harbour establishment at Holy head." Col. DUNNE said that many objections had been made by the people of Dublin and Liverpool against the choice of Holyhead a. a harbour of refuge. An inquiry took place, and a report was made, which still left the matter doubtful whether the harbour would be sufficient fur the purpose. Some eminent engineers had stated that tho total cost would be 1,800,0001. or 2,000,0001. Was it desirable to in cur such a cost, and then be obliged to abandon the work? It was unexceptionable as a packet station, but as a har bour of refuge the report left many points in doubt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there had been three or four commissions and two parliamentary committees on this subject, by whom the claims of the com peting harbours and the expense that would be incurred had been sifted to the utmost. The result of the commission ap pointed in 1847, which reported in favour of the harbour as it stood, had been upon the whole confirmed. Then a com mittee of that house had sat, with Mr. Ward, then Secretary of the Admiralty, as chairman, ant a number of members, partly named by the house and partly selected. They in quired with very great diligence, re-examined the whole matter, and came to an unanimous recommendation of the plan that had been acted upon since. lie really did not know how it was possible to do more than had been done in this case. To stop to re-examine and re-investigate the matter would be a great loss of money, with no probability of coming to any other conclusion than that which had been arrived at on use former occasion.. Ile believed the works were progressing in a very satisfactory manner, and, as far as appeared, would be rather above than below the esti mates that had been made. More could not be said in favour of any undertaking. Mr. HUME said it was desirable that the government should send down a competent engineer to inquire into the progress of the works, and to ascertain whether the objec tions that had been made to the harbour really existed. After some conversation, Sir F. T. BARING, after detailing the steps taken by the committees end commissions, said that hon. members need entertain no fear of the harbour being bolstered up by public money, though unfit for its purpose. It was well known to be an easy matter, in any ease, to get opposing opinions of engineers and surveyors in reference to any work ; and if no great public work was to be under taken till the engineers were perfectly 1/111111iM0111 there would be no hope of its being executed. (Hear.) Mr. HASTIE expressed his belief that the harbour would not answer as a harbour of refuge, and that it would not be generally supported by merchants as a packet station. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 144,0001. to defray the expenses (18M) of constructing harbours of refuge, Mr. HUME wished to know why they had not the state ment of the particulars before them ? They were entitled to have a report laid b:lore them every six months; yet since 1830 they had had no report. He, therefore, felt bound to move the postponement of the vote instil they bad the report detailing the progress made in the works before them. (Hear, hear.) He should persevere until ho learned what were the intentions of government with regard to the Channel Islands. r The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the report of last year conveyed full particulars of the lilliount expended, as also of the sum that would be re quired to complete the works. The works at Ilarwich and Dover were progressing very satisfactorily, and would be of vast Importance whoa completed. Mr. PLUMPTItE believed the works were being con ducted very scientifically. But, as regarded Dover, he should say, as one of the harbour commissioners of that port, that they were put to great expense in building sea walls, to keep out the sea, in consequence of the erection of the new pier, which caused inroads to be made in the beach. He could assure hon. geotlemen that the town was placed in jeopardy by the withdrawal of that beach. Mr. COBDEN said when this subject came before the committee last year he suggested that they should have the estimate laid before them mu the same form as the navy esti mates, namely, the amount already expended set forth in one column, the sum required in another, and the probable cost in a third. Now there was no less than 600,0001. re geared for the island of Alderney, as a harbour of refuge ; and, judging from its geographical position, its extent— three-quarters of a mile by half—with about one thousand inhabitants, he thought the acres of the island could be purchased twice over for the amount they were going to expend in improving it. But it might be said that, in a commercial point, the island might be worth twice its value. He bad never heard of an application from Lloyd's in reference to it. (Hear, hear.) The island lay on the French coast, and the tide ran in a race of 7or 8 knots per hour in that quarter. Therefore, he doubted not, if the question were submitted toe. body of shipowners, they would recommend that not a shilling should be expended there. If they continued to fortify the heights, it would certainly be regarded as a work of aggres sion by the French, who most certainly would set about fortifying Cherbourg ; so that a compound loss would be the consequence. (.• Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Mr. HUME observed that, in the event of fortifications being completed, they would require 40,000 men. The island had no commerce, the navigation being most danger ous and difficult. He had visited Alderney and Jersey, and had not heard a single man say that the island would be the better for the outlay. Therefore he called for a post ponement of the vote, until they should have a report and full information before them. (Hear, hear.) After a few words from Mr. Buck, Sir J. Graham, and Mr. Bright, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged to say it was his intention to comply with the wish of the hon. member for Montrose, and postpone the vote. The vote was then postponed. A sum of 2,763/. was next voted for the establishment and necessary works at Portpatriek, that Sir t fr h . e . T s . u l3 m A w it as iNfi vo o ted bserv to in p g re , i v n eu re t p t l h y e t4 h M arb e. o l u V r l g t o r i l n A g m to s destruction. On the vote of 23,2301. to defray the expenses of the several public buildings in the department of the commis sion of public works, Mr. SPOONER ruse to move that the vote be reduced by the sum of 1,2301. 10s. being the amount appropriated to the Royal College of M aynooth,i in Ireland. !'hat amount might appear trilling, but, nevertheless, he should oppose it on principle. As a protestant nation they had so right to grant money for the propagation of establishments hostile to that reli.don. That hostility had lately exhibited itself most determinedly, as the Roman catholics had as sumed the offensive, and taken up a strung position against the protestants of this country. (Hear, bear.) In the year 1815 the house was injured to vote 30, 0001. for the College of Maynooth, and 26,0001. was charged annu ally on the consolidated fund for its support. Sir It. Peel, when he made the proimsition in 181.5, said that he trusted the house would adopt it in a generous spirit, in the hope that it would be met in a corresponding spirit, that it would introduce a better feeling into the institution, and induce it to adopt a more liberal system. Had they been met in a corresponding spirit ? (Hear, hear.) No such thing. On the contrary, there was an open declaration of hostility on the part of the Roman eatholies, and it was only a few days since that a letter appeared in the papers from an hon. mem ber of that house, in which he said, toleration we will not receive ; we have a right to be established as the church of Ireland." I•he hon. gentleman actually repudiated Micro- I tion, and demanded supremacy; but he hoped the house, by its vote on the present occasion, would put a little pause upon that. He had no hesita tion in saying that if the Maynooth grant were to come before them now as an annual grant, it would not be passed by the House of Commons. (hear, hear.) The amendment having been put, Mr. HUME said ho was sorry to have heard the speech of the hon. gentleman; for, whatever his opinions were with regard to the Maynooth grant, he (Mr. Hume) did not think that was the time for discussing it. He entirely concurred in the sentiment that the Roman catholics should not be satisfied with toleration. They ought to have equality, and that on the Christian principle of doing to others as you would wish to be done by. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman was going against his own principles when ho opposed the right of religious equality. The May nooth grant had been amply discussed in 1845, and he was so perfectly satisfied with the decision of parliament on that occasion that he should be very sorry to do away with what was an honour to the parliament and an advantage to the community. (Hear, hear.) Sir It. INGLIS said he would not be diverted from the real question before the house by the speech of the lion. member for Montrose. That question was the grant ing a sum of money l'or the college of May nooth. Now, the principal argument brought for ward in 1815 for transferring the annual vote for Maynooth to the consolidated fund was that it would render unnecessary the introduction of a sub ject which had been an element of discord iu the house. Ile (Sir It. Inglis) did not approve of that course, but the house and parliament having sanctioned it, he for one never contemplated having the opportunityof reviving the discus sion, except it might be in the shape of a bill. But her Majesty's government had gratuitously, and at a time the least propitious for discussion, introduced the subject, and for a sum of 1,2301. lle thought it was a false expediency to show any more indulgence, or rather to give more en couragement to the Itoman catholic church, and he should for one resist it. (Hear, hear.) Mr. FORBES said he thought sonic explanation was glue from the noble lord at the head of the government, who spoke of certain mummeries and superstitions, as to the reasons which induced him to sanction a vote which would go to strengthen the college of Maynooth. (Hear.) Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that the question now before the house related to a sum of money fur repairing the old college of Maynooth, and it came before them every year since 1845. Mr. G. A. HAMILTON said that it appeared to him from the language of the 10th clause of the act relating to I the Maynooth grant, that the expense for repairs wan to be defrayed out of the 30,0001. Mr. TRELAWNY said that hon. gentlemen - opposite ' seemed to him to discuss the question in a small and narrow spirit. It seemed to him that the establishment and sup port of the college of Maynooth was defended and justified I on the ground that the education which would be imparted there would be less dangerous and more in accordance with the prevailing sentiments of the people of this country if ' the college was maintained by a grant of money, than if I they obtained their education in foreign couutries. (Hear.) Nothing would be more likely to offend the Roman catho- I lies, or to excite their sensitiveness, than the refusal of this ! grant. Mr. H. DRUMMOND had always voted in favour of the grant to Maynooth; but he must confess that at this time ' ho could not pursue that course, for he had not, as appeared to have been the case with the honourable gentleman who had just sat down, been taking a con venient nap during the last twelvemonth. (Hear, hear.) lie could not shut his eyes to the open declaration of war which had been made ; he could not forget that the church of Rome had distinctly declared that they were all pagans —(hear, hear)—and that she would bring them back from the slavery of protestantisin into the glorious liberty of the children of Rome. (Laughter.) He did not lik e sa yi ng I much on the question ; but he must say that the awkward ness of the proposal consisted in the fact that they were asked to pay a body of priests to preach against colleges which they (the House of Commons) had set up in another part of the country. (Hear, hear.) How they could pos sibly support both the Queen's Colleges and the College of Mavnooth, he certainly did not understand. Mr. ANSTEY said he thought the time was come when all sectarian and exceptional votes of public money should ' cease ; but, as he intended to vote hereafter against the Regium Dunum, against the grant to French refugee clergy, and against all other votes of a [similar character, be should begin, he thought, most fitly by clearing his con science in the matter, and voting against the proposed mat, for which he could see no solid ground, in favour of his own church. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he should oppose the vote, not on the religious ground, but on the ground that when Sir Robert Peel, in 1845, obtained a vote of 30,00 W., for the endowment and repair of Maynooth College, and an in crease of the annual vote from 9,000/. to 26,0001. a-year, he distinctly stated that no further grant would ever be re quired. He could not help remarking that a new term was now introduced; the college was now called, "The Royal College of St. Patrick, Maynooth." (Hear, hear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE could find no cause for the vote in the character of the education given ; on the con trary, he found that it was education in ultramontane, ar bitrary, and intolerant doctrines. Mr. Alderman KERSHAW intended to oppose this vote, not on account of what was termed papal aggression, but because he considered that parliament ought not to contri bute to the support of religion by grants of public money. The prote.taut dissenters of Lancashire had for years sup ported a college of their own at an expense of three or four thousand powids per annum. Mr. MOWATI could well understand an hon. gen tleman opposing this vote on the ground stated by the hon. gentleman who had just sat down; but hou. members op posite had evidently no common ground of opposition. When the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Spooner) was re citing the sums of money which the college had cost this country, he forgot to state the set-off ou the other aide. The established church of this country first of all took from the Roman catholic. of Ireland, for the support of their church, the sum of half • million annually. That made the case, in his eyes, exceptional, and but for that he should vote against t he grant. Colonel SIIITHORP would vote for the amendment of the hon. member for North Warwickshire for the sake of consistency, having on all occasions voted against the grants for the maintenance of Roman catholic colleges. He I warned the Roman catholic members that the present vote was a new piece of clap trap on the part of the government, brought forward to conciliate that party by whose aid the noble lord hoped to retain office a little longer. Mr. W. J. FOX meant to oppose the vote, but neither I on the theological ground nor the pecuniary ground. Not on theological grounds, for, whatever might be his opinion of Boma catho li c doctrinci—whatever he might think of • the spirit and tendency of the Roman catholic system, he Dilly recognised the right of those who held that system to complete religious equality with all others. (Hear, h ear. ) Nor on economical grounds—for when he remembered to what an extent we had in past times been indebted to these Roman eatholies—when lie remembered the magnificent cathedrals, the numerous churches, the gloriou s co ll eges, and the large endowments founded by their zeal and liberality, but of which they were no longer the possessors—such • sum as that involved in th e present vote would be but a beggarly offering to the re in • pecuniary point of view ; therefore he put the pecu niary consideration altogether out of the question. (Hear, hear. He respected the growing tendency of the Roman catholics lately to throw themselves entirely and broadly on the voluntary principle. He would be no party to per m ._ cueing catholici or to paying catholies. (Rear, hear.) li e had voted against the one, and he was prepared to vote against the other; but while he thought either pre,eas had —persecution of religion, or payment of religion--h e thought a combination of the two was the worst of all. (Cheers.) For the sake of the Roman catholic sys•em itself ho should oppose the vote—and he should oppose it because he considered it an abuse of the public money to apply it 1 in supporting any theological system whether by large m e i extensive endowment fur the purpose of upholding some peculiar form of faith, or by doling it out in driblets mimic: sects, placing theta also iu a state of dependence and degra dation. (Cheers.) Cal. RAWDON was prepared to vote this money, as lie considered tho state was committed to the establishment of Maynooth to support it, not in • beggarly way, but in such a manner as should make it worthy of its object—the edu cation of the catholic clergy. (Cheers.) Mr. Alderman SIDNEI opposed the vote, because the grant had failed in conciliating the Romun catholim. The committee then divided. For the reduced vote Against it The announcement of the numbers was hailed with o , r• derable cheering by the minority. The vote as originally proposed was then put 341 metl_ to. _ . . On the next vote, 10,6601. for Kingstown harbour, Alderman SIDNEY objected to this vote as being utt, rlv unncensary, Kingstown being a harbour where any r.rait begond a collier or a vessel loading with stone was r seen. He moved, in order to get rid of the vote, that th. Chairman report progress. And after souse discussion Alderman SIDNEY withdraw his amendment and the vote was agreed to. The next vote was of 92,3001., salaries and expenses of the houses of parliament. Mr. W. WILLIAMS pointed out that in proposing that vote, the government had taken little or no notice of the recommendation of reduction in these salaries and ex ponies made by the committee last year. Mr. lIUME perceived iu this estimate that the recent change in regard to the clerkship of the Douse of Com mons had caused an increased expense of 5,0001. Tnia was very extraordinary, because it had been supposed that the change would have beets attended with a saving. After a long pause, the occupants of the Treasury benches apparently nut understanding whence the increase had arisen, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained that hitherto the salary of the clerk and other, had lnett paid out of the Conwlidated Fund, and that this was the tint year in which these salaries had appeared in the esti mate. The vote was then agreed to. Upon the next vote, being 53,7001. for the &dark', con tingent, and other C peIISCS of the Trea.mry department, Major BEItESFORI) expressed his surprise on finding in this vote a sum of 2,500/. a year tbr the salary of ut assistant-secretary, which was 5001. a year more than the other saretartes of the Treasury. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had some years ago opposed the salaries to the regular secretaries under the government of Sir It. Peel, and yet he himself now proposed an addition of .51)0/. a year more to the assistant-secretary than he h a d formerly re- teivcd. Ile (Major Berestiiril) should propose that this estimate be reduced by the amount of ,300/. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended the vote. The hon. and gallant gentleman was right in saying that some years ago he had opposed the salaries of these secretaries, but it was when he first came into par liament, and at a time when the secretaries received 2,0001. a-year, and when he observed that one had -VOL a-year more, he opposed it. The vote had not been in creased in any way by the present government, and the hon. gentleman would hardly think it right in the govern ment to deprive the assistant-seeretary of an additional amount of salary, which he had gained by length of service. The salary of the assistant-secretary was fixed at 2,0001. a year, with an addition of 500/., after a certain number of years' service. The ministers of the crown had shown themselves ready to adopt the recommendntiou of the com mittee on public salaries, as to a reduction of the salaries of the secretaries of state. He had already borne testimony to the valuable services of Sir Charles Trevclyan, and therefore seed say no more upon that point. Mr. DISRAELI—WouId the government please to in form the house upon whet principle they decided on the recommendations of the committee ou public salaries ? The committee, for example, had receotnmended that the salary of the Paris embassy should be cut down to ono half ; and instead of adopting that recommendation the government increased the salary. The government ought to state the principle they had adopted with respect to the committee on public salaries, which was a great mis take ; for no government should have accepted such a committee unless they were prepared to act upon their recommendations. The government were bound to accept the recommendations of the committee whose responsibility they guaranteed, but they could not act in one direction in one case and in another direction in another. They must adopt the recommendations of that committee as authority for the house or set them aside alto gether. The right hon. gentleman had openly, and scarcely with decency, observed that he disapproved of the reduc tions of salary which his own government had made. He thought the secretary to the Treasury was not over remu nerated; but if that was the opinion of the government, why had they not acted with respect to the secretary of the Treasury in the same st.irit as in the MSC of the Paris em bassy ? But if the government had thought proper to assent to a reduction in the case of the secretary to the Treasury, then they were hound to regulate the other sala ries of the office in harmony and analogy with the amount they thought was just. Here was a govenun,nt at the beginning of the evening announcing that they would not act iu accordance with the recommendations of the com mittee because they thought it inexpedient to do so, and at a later hour in the genie evening confessing that they wero acting in accordance with the recommendations of that committe ..mittce although they thought them unjust. Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the hon. gentleman who had just spoken must have forgotten that he had on one night in the present session stated why the government disagreed with some of the recommendations of the com mittee, and agreed with others. That was the principle upon which the question turned ; but after he had treated the whole matter, and had explained the views of the go vernment, the hon. geutlemaut took it as a matter of sur prise that the government had agreed with some of the recommendations and disagreed with others. The hon. gentleman laid down the proposition, that if a select com mittee made certain recommendations, the government was bound to adopt the whole, or reject the whole. He could net see the reason of that proposition, or why, because the go vemment had thought that the embassy to l' uris required moro than .1,000/., they should bo of opinion that a secretary to the Treasury required more than 2,0001. a year. On a question of this kind the government had a tall right to take into their consideration the whole question of the recommendations of the committee, adopting those which they thought were beneficial to the public service, and also adopting others which, although they thought ant bene ficial, would not do serious injury to the public interest, aad to reject—or ask the house to reject—those which they believed would inflict injury upon the public service. His belief was that if the mission to Paris had been fixed at only 5,0001. a year the public service would have suffered in the diplomatic relations of this country with France, and that they could not have been conducted in the same way as when an ambassador was present. But he owned he could not see the same consequences flowing Orem a secretary to the Treasury being reduced to 2,0001. a par. Ile could not say that efficient persons—members of Mat house—could not be found to fill the office for 2,0001. a year, which was, he believed, what the President of the Board of Trade received for his important duties. Ile did not feel bound to say that every one of the recommendations adopted in that noose was in itself altogether wise. When Lord Grey was in office in 1830 Lord Althorp pro posed a committee on salaries, and that committee recom mended a reduction of the salaries of the Under Secretaries of State ; but that proposition was only in part accepted, the salary of one of the Under-Secretaries being reduced to 1,5001. a year. If asked for his own opinion he should say that for the important duties of au Under Secretary a salary of 2,000/. a year was not too much. Still he had gone on making reductions, and it appeared to him that the government were right in saying with respect to those political offices with which the minist a rs were most immediately connected that they would accept the recom mendations of the committee for reduction when no serious injury would result to the public service. And in the pre sent instance they had adopted the recommendation of the committee with respect to the diplomatic service, because the committee, having laid down the proposition that .5,0001. a year was sufficient,' that scale had been adopted in the embassies to Madrid and Vienna. Nothing he conceived would have been more pre posterous than for the government to have conic down and said " Here are a number of recommendations, some of them we think are good, others will not do much harm. and others we think would prove highly miechiecous, and we will adopt them all as proposed by the committee ;" or, on the other hand, to have said " We will reject them all." (!fear, hear.) They had gone on the principle which be had stated at great length on a former day, and that prin ciple he thought was a sound one. Mr. V. SMITH conceived that the conditions stated in reference to the office of assistant secretary ought to be ob served. After a few words from Major BERFAFORD, Captain MANULES spoke in high terms of the Wants of Sir Charles Trcvelyan, and said that he had sacrificed prospects of advancement in another profession whoa he took the office of assistant secretary. He did not think it was fair now to turn 'round and reduce the agility is the face of the treasury minute which existed. • Mr. DISRAELI must protest against the introduction of personal matters into a discussion of this kind.- • (lieu.) It had nothing to do with the question whether Sir Chi. Trevelyan were or were not a distinguished Mr. HUME agreed that the personal. aervicei_of sir Charles Trevelyan had nothing to do , wirls tbemitter. Ile thought, however, that public faith iboild be kept riblso sernats.