The Express. — London, England, 1853-05-20 00:00:00

INI I'ERIAL PA ItI.IMIEN I'. mono , . OF CONINIONS.—TmatsDAY, MAT 19. The Or retina tools the chair at 4 o'clock. EW MEMBERS. Mr. 'I twontaaNas and Mr. loyal's& took the wke and the.r goats toe Berwiekie-lweed ; sad Mr. Las tor Ilaadoune. AGRICULTURAL EITATISTICt!. Mr. BANBARS asked the President of the Board of Trade, what 041.1t1.11 her Majesty's government intended to adopt this session of psrliamtor, with the view of intro downs( a system of agricultural statistics into the Usited Kingdom ? Mr. CARDWELL said the house was aware that in Ire land, through the imstrumestality of that ezeellent force the Irish constabulary, very detailed information was already hid on 'he table. Witt regard to Scotland, the agricul tural societies of that country were takioa the utmost pales to collect information; their isotonic' being directed espy- eialh to Sutherland, East Lothian, and Rozburgloshire. la Enalowl, in coanesion with the Pour Law Board, an impalas it of he same kind was being made in Hertford- ehin sod Devonshire. Ile hoped that one result of them ezpariasente would he that arrangements on a more osten sive scale would be made la future years. ..... ' THE METROPOLIS AND THE GOVERNMENT EDUCATION DILL. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know whether the government bad say intention of hereafter bringing the metropolitan district within the operation of the Education bill. kird .1. RUSSELL, said he hail no intention to bring the niPtropoliten district under the operation of the Edo catila BARON ROTHSCHILD'S SEAT. Mi. M. GIBSON wished to put a question to the noble lord. the member fur the City of London, of which notice wet given previous to the Whitsuntide teens. A bill had room 11 that b itise for the purpose of relieving Jets from certain disabilities, and it had sines been rejected by the other haute of parliament. The City of London having re turned a Jew to represent it in that house, that gentleman was at present unable to discharge his duties, and, as the *eat was full, a new writ could not be issued. 'I he question which ha wished to ask the noble lord was, what course he propueed to take in the present position of affairs? Holding the noble ►ord responsible for the management of business there, and having regard to the very peculiar position of the City of London, ke begged to ask his what course he would advise the house to take, and alto whether the government meant to make any further effort during the present session, or at any future time, to settle this imp 'runt question. Lord J. RUSSELL taid—Sir, with respect to the im portant question which my right hon. friend has asked me, I have to state, in the brat place, that I do not think this question can be settled by leaving things as they are at pre sent. My opinion is, that it is much more probable that it should be stifled by a bill, making a general alteration in the oaths to be taken by members of parliament, than by recurring to a bill of the nature of that which has been re jected by the House of Lords; but at what time such an alteration should be proposed, I cannot at present under take to say. however, I observe that there has been a bill introduced in the other house of parliament for an altera tion of the oaths. I have not seen that bill, but it is pos sible that it may mine down to us ins short time in a shape by which this difficulty may be settled. EXCISE DUTIES OX SPIRITS BILL. Oa the order of the day for the second reading of this bill, . . . . Captain JONES said if the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had informed him when he intended to propose his resolution for the imposition of an additional duty of 81. on Irish spirits, he should have op posed it. Being precluded from taking that course at present, he would not detain the house with any length ened remarks. He felt bound, however, to express his opinion as to what would be the result of the change. In 1842, when Sir Elbert Frei proposed an addition of Is. to the duty on Irish spirits, he told him that be most not expect any increase of revenue—that he would fill all the gaols, and encourage illicit distillation, and would be compelled to retrace his steps. Before a year had passed his prophecy was verified, and the additional duty was removed. He now told the government that they were about to repeat the experiment, and that the result would be precisely the same. It was true that the addition was now to be Bd. instead of a shilling, but that amount was quite sufficient a produce the effect. From a return moved for by the hon. member for Salford, it appeared that in the five consecutive years from 1834 to 1839, the con sumption of spirits in Ireland varied from 12,000.000 to 10,800,000 gallons. After the addition made in 1842 the quantity brought to charge came down to 6,000,000 gallons. It was not to be supposed that one drop of whiskey lam was consumed ; the deficiency was made up en tirely by illicit spirits. After the addition s) duty had been removed, the quantity of spirits gradually increased until the year 1851. In the fiaandal year, ending March 1852, the quantity was 7,500,000 gal lons ; in the year just passed it was 8,208,000 gallons ; and Oahe present duty were allowed to continue, he had no doubt the consumption would woe be 10,000,000 gallons. In this way, the Chancellor of the Exchequer might expect to obtain some addition to the revenue, but none could be got by means of an increase of the tax on spirits. It • as, from the nature of the country, utterly impossible to pre vent illicit distillation so long as there was a premium upon it. The bill was then read a second time and ordered to be committed on Monday. The Customs Duties on Spirits Bill, was also rend a second time, and ordered to be read a third time on Mon day. INDIA. On the order of the day for going into Committee of Supply, Lord J. RUSSELL said he wished to give notice that on Friday, the 3rd of June, his right hon. friend the P. esi dent of the Board of Control, would state the views of her Majesty's government, respecting the future government of India. On the question that the Speaker do leave the chair, Mr. RICH said, with reference to the notice si nich had just been given on the subject of India, he wished to ob serve that he entertained such a strong feeling with re gard to the administration of Indian affairs, that he could not lose the opportunity of introducing the que-tton on the 'Jammu for going into Committee of Supply. lie could not help saying that he thought it was for the inter. et of the government, fur the interest of this country, and c.0. , - citify for the interest of India, that the question should be maturely considered before the bill was brought in. He strongly deprecated hasty legislation in a matter of such grave importance ; he was aware of the difficulties result ing floes suspension of action for any long period, but the delay of on. or two years was as nothing when compared with the Importance of bringing the minds of the people of Beymlad te bear on the subject, with the view to the eats blithimmlef a sound, psenment, Ind satisfactory form of government in India. Nit C. WOOD was quits sure lis hem Mend was ani mated by die meet dame desire he Ile welfare of ladle, but be (wheel whether the best =de of forthedeg that *ma was* bed* en dismiss@ wpm M ediret to the an derrZ.) se lle would aot lots= hen. Mead. tie assmobsses' sh, various smdee into which he had entered, beams die did he should - be dei =at whirl he deptreated in gams teen it wield be his ea duty, a Malmo day= hie male kind Lewd J. Reseed had glees setae), M slab et hese the views of the govern ment ea the se**. (Rear, beer.) The house then went tato enmities at SUPPLY—MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES. On the Strt vole el 119,3201., for »palm of mid phase and puddle beildieps, Sir J. SHELLEY wished to know bow the stud homes is Busby-perk Ma acesuat of whisk there was an lima Included is this vete) were occupied, whether by the home of private persons or Bet ? It was understood that made oohs were to take plies periodhally of thorough-bred lame knee them shad bonne, and be begged to higsdre whether.' debtor sad creditor account would be kept el the sales ? Iced J. RUSSELL (who was very iadietiandy WOO wee undenteed to say that the memo& of the sake wenil be brought late the public aceousts. With ewgmi to the stud houses, be was not aware what the inSIOO.IIIIISMX that was some to sass years ago was, but would Swim. The vote was then agreed to. Oa the seat vote, 62,736 L, for royal parks and Thome 'F OOS Lonli a b. STUART eameleined that Kew Oenhats were sot open to the nblie es Mende7e. that being w•• 17 warm &BY whoa the working &Mu bed the opportualty of weloyieg Sir W. MOLESWORTH bad given directions that Hew Gardens should be open on Sundays, sad they were open to the public on Sunday last. (Loud cries of " Hear.") Lord D. STUART was exceedingly happy to hear it— but there wee smother portion of the grounds at Kew—the grenade—which at present we open on Sundays ters. n re Is parties of the year only, viz., between Midsum mer and Mialmetram ; he boreal the right hon. baronet would gins directions that that should be open every Sun day. It would be desirable, also, that the public should have seems to that part of Richmond Park between Roe hempen and Robin Need's Oate, from which they were now excluded. Mr. M.ALINS avenged that it would be a greet conve nience to the Belgravia= if the gate on the bridge across the Serpentine on Wu south side ware thrown open, as it was du the Exhibition. Bit W. MOLESWORTH was net aware that there would be eactzstion le spank* the gat* in question, but he would Mr. KINN emaidered it wail be a great he = pavement dame was a carriage way misread Wow Hyde park, hem VigMeingete to Albert-gate. Sie W. KOLIINWORTH thought them would be sena, Mgeetiene to ash One eked..wasdiet it wadi ens up • the all peek mil kilerfere with pedestrians, end easeetter that thtens would bays to be Isit tries night. ARMS tew weir& from lard D. &VAST. Mr. IL DRUMMOND is reeked that all the works cos ebusted he the esselemsdados of bee Majesty, or for public =sect treks es mask se Mei* works did wheo Mr panne petroes, and he insieeneed the stables:at 'ffigidearond the removal of the marble ugh from St. James's M Hpie.pesk as pooh. It was 2111111111111118 that all the goveremeat bladders made enesuesse raids by their matraos, and then appealed ati-he en utter abuses of that Mind 011 ao pat of the government which wee neemeary Misery es ths public works with a due regard to mo. nem. Me, W. WILLIAMS observed that, besides the enor mous amount that had been expended on the royal palaces care bar Majesty's accession, more than a million had been wag • gps royal parks. Of course the raga had the THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 20, 1553. Charles Barry way allowed to ice on apeotbug money, ao oue knew how ? %Vas there any control over him ? Mr WILSON wee afraid there was very little;. bat better care would be taken in future. The vote was then agreed to. On filament vote, 111.100/. for the Stationery-office, Mr. W. WILLIAMS Inquired whether that sum would be sufficient - to complete the office. He would take that opportunity of saying that the stationery supplied to the house was of the worst possible kind. As to the pens, he was obliged to bring his own. Mr. WILSON said this vote did not apply to the pens, but to the Stationery-office. lie was bound to say that the sum in question would not be sufficient to finish the office, as it was intended to make such en enlargement as would enable a number of government books and records to bo kept in that office which were now kept in buildings for which a large rental was now paid ; so that, although pro bably 10,0001. more would be required, there would be an eventual saving. The vote was agreed to. HOLYHEAD HARBOUR. On the next vote, 91,27 W. fur Holyhead harbour, Mr. THORNELY said that this was the 7th year in which there had been a vote for the improvement of Holy head harbour. The original estimate was 628,0001. Would that cover the whole of the expenditure ? Mr. WILSON, with regard to a work of such magni tude, could not say that the estimate in question would cover the expense. Colonel DUNNE was sure the estimate would not nearly cover the expense. It was supposed bt• some persona that Holyhead would not answer as a harbour of refuge, and that the origical plan had been deviated from. It was a subject very interesting to Irishmen, and he should be glad to know whether the proposed estimate would be sufficient fur the whole expense, and whether the plan was likely to answer. Sir J. GRAHAM mid his attention bad been only re cently called to the subject. When he came into office. the control of harbours of refuge was in a somewhat anomalous position. The Admiralty was nut answerable for the works which were under the control of the Treasury, although they were answerable for the expenditure. Re believed that the estimate for Holyhead harbour would be sufficient to defray the cost. lie said that with confidence, as the works were under the directiln of Mr. Bendel, and reli ance was to be placed on bis estimate. Ile was told by all who saw the works that they were executed in the best possible manner ; that the plan was succenful, and that it would be a harbour of great use in the Channel commu nication between Great Britain and Ireland. In answer to Mr. Iluex Sir J. GRAHAM said, the subject of harbours of refuge had been too tug neglected in this country, considering our maritime position. He was astonished that it did not attract the notice of parliament sooner. With regard to that part of the coast to which the hon. gentleman referred, It should be remembered that at Ifolyhead, and Portland, and Dover, works were going on still requiring considerable additions Of money. When thous works were finished they might commence others. Mr. W. WILLIAMS had heard with great gratification the statements of the right hon. baronet, that these works would be completed within the estimated expense. When they were commenced there was a great difference of opi nion among the engineers as to the expense, and some of the most eminent made estimates, the lowest of which was upwards of a million. The vote was then agreed to. The:nezt vote was 226,0001. on account it the expense of constructing certain harbours of refuge. Mr. THORNELY remarked that a note was appended in the estimates stating that the particulars of the expendi tore for each harbour, accompanied by reports of the engineers in charge of the works for the year to 31st March, will be found in a return to be presented to the House of Commons as a separate paper in the present session. He thought they ought to have these particulars before they gave the vote, and not afterward.. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said be saw the amount for Dover harbour was only 31,000/. Ile asked whether there was to be any further estimate for Dover harbour. Sir J. GRAHAM replied that the plan respecting Dover harbour bad been recently under revision. 34,0001. would complete the work as far as the present contract went, but to render the works really effectual it would be necessary to prolong them to a considerable extent. It was now pro rued, after the 34,0001. was expended, so far as the con tract went, to carry the works 800 feet further into deep water. Of course, as they went into deeper water, the ex pense would be greater, but it was not intended in the pre sent year to go further than the 34,0001. Colonel DUNNE asked what was doing in reference to the Channel Islands 1 Sir J. GRAHAM said there were two works in progress in the Channel Islands. For five or six years works bad been going on at Jersey, which it was not intended to carry much further than the existing contracts. The other is a very important work in the island of Alderney. It had not advanced to a considerable extent yet, because it was carried on in deep water. It was the intention of govern ment to proceed with that work. Mr. A. PELLATT asked in what time the works at Al derney would be completed, and what would be the expense ? Sir J. GRAHAM said it was impossible to work seven months out of the twelve. It would, perhaps, take seven years, and the estimated expense was about 600 , 0001. The vote was then agreed to. The next Tote was 2,6661. for works at Portpatrick Harbour. Mr. W. WILLIAMS whaled to know when the works at this harbour were to be fiuished ? An assurance was given some years ago that it should not appear in the estimates again. Sir J. GRAHAM said it was much to be regretted that such • sum should be expended on: such an assurance. The hon. gentleman was right in stating that an assurance had been given that this harbour should not again appear in the estimates, but • storm had demolished a portion of the works and it was thought necessary to replace them. Since the estimate was presented a fresh survey had been made, end the amount reduced by 1,0001. Col. BLAIR said there was a probability of a railway being made from Dumfries to Portpatriek which would render the harbaur more useful. M►. FREWEN observed that be did not keow why imooey should be laid out on this harbour more than another. Sir J. GRAHAM said as the hon. and gallant officer had stated it was hoped that the railway between Dumfries and Portpatriek would be continued. At all events 100,0001. having been expended on the harbour, he tkought it would be bed economy not to spend 2,000 L. to repair the breath caused by the storm. The vote was then agreed to. The next vote was 45,6001. for public buildings in Ireland. _ _ _ _ Mr. SPOONER moved that the vote be reduced by 1,2351. 13e. for repairs of St. Patrick's College, Maynooth. He should not detain the committee at any length, but he had not changed his mind upon the questioa. The hens* had rejected his proposition and he should not now enter late** principle. Although he objected now on pen ramp pencils he still maintained his objection as to the goliolple. He said that a protestant country ought not to =popery in any way. In 1845. parliament voted for building a new college, and passed an act to doom the consolidated fund with near 30,0001. a year for maintenance. Under these circumstances he thought there meal not to be a further charge for repairs. In 1851, the Ms of 1,236/. was voted for repairs. He opposed it, and newts was only carried by a majority of 2. That mom mei him to cones the vote now. 11r. W. WILLIAMS mid when Sir Robert Peel intro losall the bill of 1846 for granting 30,0001. (or the enlie- MOM of thisediegn and near 30.0001. a year for the mmaaiin WON, of Sir Robert Peel gave a distinct mur al* that es farther sums would be asked for yearly. On MM ireuscl he should vote for the amendment. Ilk J. GRAHAM said at the time referred to he had the been of being perfectly cognisant of what the intentions el the government were, and his recollection of what m aned is the house entirely differed from that of the hoe. gentleman. The hoe. member for Birmingham said this was • aew building. On the contrary, it was a very old WNW& Parliament gave 30,0001. for its restoration, and he Wm& every tuning was expended on its repel; mad enlargement. The question came before the government of Sir inert Peel, whether the annual sum should be the repairs of the building, or whether =the ebsiiMl be paid out of the consolidated fund so OillOsover the anon repairs, and it was decided by the genetement that IRO establishment, so endowed by pa:lir gaseM, should be biseght under the notice of parliament when expedition for repairs was required. The sum plead on the eemdlelated fund did not cover repairs; but time bad been t from time to time before the house as a distimet . The amount required for this pewee ltett everepoi about 1,2001. a year; but the sum tranemdtted for am last year not having been beseght natter the fella of parliament, the vote on the eerie. aseinerily more than usual. Using r e rres si yes meeldenil deeleable to starve out the college by raw anti* it metabitbllellie, ea outlay such as was now proposed was nedutely eisernmey. (Hear, hear.) Mr. A. PELLA= alseiald vote for Mr. Spooner'; mo tion, bat an the ems& that he objected to all religious en- 1 dowsing@ voleiseim Weer, hear.) lie had visited May. nooth, eel WA Arai Set both the old and the new build ings were bye up i and that no fewer than 400 student; were goolmooMilated in them—a number far too large, be theo g hl o t er im market. (Hear, hear.) Ile wished to brew ea this motion would preclude his eiteeiquellser : I t any other part of the vote, because be 1111mMe premed charge of 6,7901. lis. for Phenix Push, be i m, gardens, demesnes, plantations, Re., was a ingegalie expenditure : and he should like to know whe ther than were no items of receipt from the sale of grass or timbre. Mr. BOUVERIE replied that the hon. gentleman would sot be prevented from pellimg eenstions on that subject. Mr. CORRY said the eldest of Sir R. Peel in intro ducing the Mayaooth Rudownsaat Act was to avoid the annual recurrence of irritating dissussions on this subject ; but that object would be quite defeated by a vote of this nature. He had referred to the speech of the lets right hon. gentleman in 160, and ha found that he (Sir R. Peel) ►ad declared that the annual charge of the establishment would be 26,360/. ; and t►erefore in thing the endowment at 30,0001, he bad left a sum of nearly 3,600/. available for repairs. (Hear, hear.) He should vote in (avatar of Mr. Bpooner's emotion. Mr. MIALL would take the same course, because be should have opposed say similar vote, whatever the religi ous body might be that was to have been benefited by it. Oa. ebaraeteristlo all these ecclesiastical items appeared to possess incarnates, namely, that when once put in the esti mates they remained there until the house thrust them out. (Hear. hear.) Mr. 8. HERBERT, in answer to Mr. Corry, read ano lku passage from Sir R. Peas speech is 1846, in which that Ate right hon. gentleman distinctly annotated that the vote fur rerairs would be taken annually. (Mar ) Sir W. VERNER thought the house ought to appoint a committee to inquire into the oaths taken by Roman catholic priests. They were oaths of allegiance not to the Queen, but to the P.m*, and were, in short, identical with the Ribbon Societies' oaths, for taking which a person might be transported. Sir J. WALMSLEY was apposed to all ecclesiastical endowments, but he must say that, to begin by objecting to a small sum like this, would be very like straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. (Hear, hear.) When the house was prepared to do justice to all classes, he should be glad to support such a proposition, but in the mean time he should vote against the amendment. (Chasm.) Mr. LUCAS was quite prepared to vote against all en dowments whatever—(hear. hear)—but he wished to drew attention to the fact that in this very vote there were several other items of a similar character. There were SUMS of 381. fur repairs of the chaplain's house at Dublin Castle, and 391. far, furniture; 901. for repairs of the chapel royal, and apartments in the basement; and furniture, 611. Os. Bd. ; Irishtown Church 241. 16s. repairs, and 131. 4a. furniture; the chaplain's apartment at Kilmaleham Hospital 4/. repairs; the chapel 1171. repai•s, and 181. 10s. furni tore ; Royal Hibernian Military School Protestant Chapel SI. repairs, Roman Catholic 441. 10s. repair., and V. for furniture. If the amendment was so framed as to leave out all these items he should not object, but as the motion stood it was on the faco of it a gross act of in justice. (Rear, hear.) Mr. HAI)FIELD hoped the hon. member for Meath (Mr. Lucas) would himself move the addition of the items he had mentioned. Personally there was nothing that he (Mr. Hadfield) would so strongly oppose as the endowment of the denomination to which he himself belonged. Indeed they bad struggled against the Regime Doman, and they had at last got rid of It, so that they came there now with clean hands. (Hear.) If the representation were only in the hands of the people, they would have none of these baneful dive?ssirs about religious endowment. (Hear.) Sir J. SHELLEY supported the amendment on the broad ground of opposition to religions endowment of eve• y kind out of the public purse. He was surprised that the Hawn catholic', considering their numbers and power, should come there fear after year asking for n paltry 1,2001. (Hear, bear.) Mr. LUCAS, in reply to the appeal which had been made to him, had only to observe that the hon. member for Mayo bad given notice of a motion which was to come on upon the 31st of this month, for a select committee to inquire into the whole question of religious equality in Ire land ; and it was on that account that he objected to nibbling motions like these. With respect to the statement of the hon. member opposite (Mr. Hadfield), he bad only to say that he bad received a circular begging of him, in pathetic terms, to support the Irish Reginns Dolma, on the ground that its recipients professed the evangelical doc trines of the Westminster Confession, and because they hoped that he was an enlightened supporter of the protes tant interests. (Laughter.) Mr. W. J. FOX said the bon. gentleman had confounded the nonconformists of England with the presbyterians had s.. of Ireland. The former, titer a long struggle, _ suc ceeded in procuring the withdrawal of the English Regium Damns. Ile considered that be had a perfect right to fight the questicn of state endowment in detail aa well as in the aggregate ; and, therefore, he should support the amend ment. Mr. W. WILLIAMS begged to move that the items for Irishtown Church and Dublin Cutle, amounting to 2,561. 66., be added to the amendment. The committee then divided : For Mr. Williams's amendment 43 Against it On our re-admission to the gallery, Lord J. RUSSELL was addressing the committee. Owing to the absurd system which prevails of excluding reporters during divisions, and the delay consequent on their re-admission, the early part of his lordship's addre.s was lost. He said that what the hon. gentleman (Mr. Spooner) proposed was merely that the doors and windows of the buildinfr should not be repaired, that the roof should net be made atr-tight, and such matters, which certainly did not appear of any great importance. But he wished some members of the committee to consider, after having voted by a majority against the proposal of Mr. Wil liams, what the proposition now was. Before the last division, it was a question how far that division might be taken as a test of the opinion of many members of that house against say grant of public money for religious en dowments. (Hear, hear.) The committee had refused to 'Arm that principle, and had given a vote favourable to religious endowments. (Hear, hear.) Now it was pro posed to single out one of those endowments, and that one belonging to a religious communion in Ireland which re ceived the least of public support, and it was proposed to deprive them of any grant of public money. (Hear, hear.) The committee would therefore see that the question now was totally altered. (Hear, hear.) Mr. MIALL said the question appeared to be altered by the vote just given only so far es this: in the first instance they had several interests cnmbining together to carry a vote • now they bad only one interest to contend with. As they had not been able to carry the principle as a whole, he advised them to try and carry it by detail. (Cheers.) Mr. SPOONER said he certainly would not vote against all religious endowments. Previous to the division he had twiee asked for an explanation of what they were voting on, and could not get it ; and he declared positively that when the question was put he knew nothing • hatever what they were voting on. (Great laughter) He had asked for an explanation and could get none ; he therefore voted against the amendment. ("Hear, hear," and cries of " Divide.") Sir J. Y. SHELLEY said the committee were not placed in any awkward position at all by the late divide'', They were now going to vote on the proposal of Mr. Spooner exactly as they would have done if they had not voted on that of Mr. Williams. Lord J. RUSSELL said that Mr. Williams's proposal was that all religiods denominations should be deprived of endowments, and he was glad the committee had decided against it. (Rear, hear.) Now they were about to vote on only one of those endowments. (Rear, hear.) The committee then divided on Mr. Spooaer's amend ment. The numbers were : For the amendment _ Against it The Tote, thus reduced by 1,2351., was then agreed to, ea were the following votes : 11,6451. for Kingstown Harbour. 91,1001., salaries and expenses, and allowances to retired effic.rs, of the two houses et parliament. 54,0001, salaries and expenses of the tressury. 27,100/., ditto of the office of Secret iry fir the Home De partment. 69,4001., ditto of the office of Secretary for Foreign Affairs. - 39,1751, ditto of the office of Secretary for War and Colonies. 71.60 W., ditto of the Privy Council, and of the Commit tee of Privy Council for Trade, &c. 2,7001., estahli•hment of the Lord Privy Seal. 23,70 W., salaries and expenses of the department of Pay master-General. 6,3961., department of the Comptroller-General of the Exchequer. 17,2821., saluies and expenses of the office of Commission ers of Works and Public Buildings. 22,3291., salaries and expenses of the office of Woods, Forests : and Land Revenues. _ _ 2,7771., do. of the State Paper Office. 3,3681., a portion of the expenses of the Ecclesiastical omrnissioners for Ragland. On this latter vote. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he should take the sense of the oommittee against the payment of this sum out of the public taxes to the Beclestastical Commissioners. As the payment was szelnainly for the utsuagement of church property, it ought totems out of that property. The committee divided : For the vote 63 Against it The next vote was -214,4941., expenses of the Poor Law Commissioners. In answer to Mr. WISB, Mr. BAINES stated that, of this vote 8,3761. was for travelling and incidental expenses of the inspectors. The vote wss then agreed to, as were the following: 49,6311., expenditure of the mint. 12,2701., salaries and expenses connected with the public records. 15,0501., inspectors and sub-inspectors of factories, mines, Re. 1,7001., salaries of certain officers in.Sootland, and other charges. On this vote, Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he observed it comprised items of 2171. for Queen's plates ; but as the amount was so smaU, he would not divide against it. Mr. KINNAIRD asked if there was any prospect of these items disappearing from the votes. Mr. WISE considered it a waste of public money. Mr. WILLIAMS said he had objected to these plates for several years ; but as the amount for Scotland was so small he would take the division on the next item, that for Ire land, and would combine some other items with it. Mr. A. PELLATT said it would be very inconsistent with principle—if there was any principle in it—not to take the division forthwith. It would be unjust that Scotland should receive these gratuities and Ireland be deprived of them. Sir J. SHELLEY hoped the hen. member would not divide against this item. Something more was to be said in its favour than as regarded the improvement of the breed, of horses. No public amusement afforded so much petit , ' cation to the people as racing. (Hear, hear.) It was true there were mischiefs attached to it, but those who would gamble there would gamble elsewhere. (Hear, hear.) He hoped they would not bring their economy od absurdam. It was now-a-days the professed object in all quarters to give amusement to the working classes ; and he hoped the Lon. member would not press his opposition. Mr. PELLATT was wilting to allow the vote to pass if Mr. Williams would do the same with regard to the vote for Queen's Plates in Ireland. Mr. ANDERSON said the people of Scotland did not care about races at all. Mr. BUCK supported the vote. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that a large amount was sub scribed by her Majesty to rates out of her private purse, and she bad a perfect right to do so ; but that house had no right to •Jte money for racing either in Scotland or Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Let those who liked racing defray the cost.— - . . I'ELLATT said he would move that the vote be 1,4821. 75., instead of 1,7001. The gallery was cleared for a division but none took place, and the vote was agreed to. On the vote of 6,4241 for the household expenses of the Lord-Lieutenant, Sir J. SIIELI.EY wished to know whether say plan bad wou:d hevn under the eoueideretion of the government iar the ebAition of the olEcte of Lvrd-Lieutenant, which was u ultra show and tsehle. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not able to state whether any plan hest been formal) , brought under the consideration of the government kr the ab.lition of the Lord-Lieutenancy. Colonel 1)i: NNE thought the answer of the right hon. gentleman very unsatisfactory. Whatever might to the opinion of the hon. baronet on this subject, the people of Ireland were unanimous in wishing for its continuance. (Hear, hear.) The government were well enough disposed to impose additional taxation on Ir. lam% but when they were asked whether it was proposed to deprive her at the money that was spent by the vice-regal establishment, the right bon. gentleman did not give a frank denial, but on the contrary, an evasive and unsatisfactory answer. (Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he di not know how he failed in point of frankness ; and if the hon. and gallant colonel put to him a more distinct ques tion he would endeavour to improve in his answer. (" neer, hear," and laughter.) He gave the beet answer in his power to the question which had been put to him in the absence of the right hon. gentlemen the Secretary for Ire land and the Secretary of Stice for the Hume Department, in whose department it more properly lay to give au ILIIIIACT to the question. Colonel DU NNE would ask, then, whether the right hon. gentleman was aware of any intention on the part of the government to abolish the Lord Lieutenancy ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not aware of any intention. (.. Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Mr. W. WILLIAMS was surprised that any Irishman attached importance to the keeping up of this mock-royalty in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) How much better would it not be to have the Queen visit Ireland every year. (Hear, hear.) There was included in this vote a sum of 1811. 12s. 81. for the chaplain to the Lord-Lieutenant, and 1,8741. 64. 2d. for Queen's plates to be run for in Ireland. Now, as he thought that the salary of the chaplain ought to be defrayed from the 20,0001. a year Which the Lord Lieutenant received, and if persons desired to encourage racing in Ireland this should be done at their own expense, and not out of the public taxes. (Hear, hear.) Ho should therefore move that the vote be reduced by 1,7581. 18.. 10d. Mr. O'CONNOR HENCHY said that the people of Ire land looked upon the vote as one of considerable import ance as encouraging the treed of horses, and his consti tuents would feel its withdrawal very seriously indeed. Mr. A. WISE would support the amendment on the ground that horse racing ought to be upheld by the persons who enjoyed ir, and not out of the public taxes. Mr. D. SEYMOUR hoped the hon. member for Lam beth would nut divide on the present vote, as the committee had not divided on the similar vote fur Scotland. Ile thought the time for making the proposition was ill-selected, as Ireland was but just recovering from a heavy blow in flicted by Providence. (Laughter.) Mr. A. PELLATT sag: that it was owning to his inex perience of the forms of the house, that he had not divided the committee on the previous vote. The committee then divided— Fur Mr. Williams' amendment 3l Against The vote was then agreed to. The vote of 17,1341. for the office of Chief Secretary in Ireland was agreed to. 7.4721. 3s. 7d. for the office of Paymaster of Civil Services in Ireland was agreed to. Oa the vote of 30,1531. for the office of Public Works in Ireland, Col. DUNNE called the attention of the committee to the expenditure for drainage WOlllll, and complained that the expenditure for these works bad so far exceeded the estimates, as to be more, in many case!, than the value of the land. It was a great hardship on the proprietors of Ireland to be called on to pay for such au excessive outlay. Ile would mention in particular the cases of Ardea and Brume. The mischief arose entirely from the circumstance of tke works being placed under the management of a name ies‘ individual at the Treasury. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could as• sure the hon. and gallant gentleman that tho subject had not escaped the attention of the government, and that they were only waiting until the preparation of remedial mea sures was matured. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 32,000/. for foreign and other secret ser vice— Mr. A. WISE asked (or explanation. Mr. R. WILLIAMS said—Having opposed this vote for many years, he was glad to perceive a diminution in the amount. (Rear, hear.) He hoped next year to be able to congratulate the house on a still further reduction. Lord D. STUART said this vote was regarded with the greatest suspicion out of doors, and the dislike to it must have been increased be some recent revelations with regard to secret services performed is relation to particular indi viduals. lie w .uld not formally oppose it, but he thought the committee should have ss much information as pos sible. (Laughter.) Mr. A. PELLATT wished to know whether any part of the money was applied in supporting the metropolitan de tective police. Lord J. RUSSELL replied that the police of tho metro polis received nothing out of this secret fund. The vote was then agreed to. 216,4301. was voted for printing and stationery; and 16,0001. to defray the law charges in the offices of the Attorney-General and the Solicitor-General. On the vote of 17,7001. for the sheriff's expenses and offices at the Court of Exchequer, Mr. A. WISE expressed his astonishment, and wished to know how the money was to be applied / Mr. J. WILSON was unable to answer the question, but wou:d make inq • • Lord D. STUART thought that when the government could give no information, votes ought to be postponed. (Rear, hear ) Mr. M. CIiA.MBERS said as a young member of the house he should certainly like to have some information with regard to this large item of expenditure. Lord J. RUSSELL, who spoke in a very low tone, was understood to say that this vote was made up of sums paid to the sheriffs on account of charges which they could not be expected to defray themselves. The vote was then agreed to. Ou the vote of 8,8301. for the salaries and expenses of the commissioners of the Insolvent Courts, Mr. A. PELLATT wished to know whether the govern ment were aware that a considerable saving might be effected by transferring the business of the Insolvent Courts either to the Courts of Bankruptcy or to the County Courts, E. to both. Lord J. RUSSELL thought the question was one which could hardly be dealt with on the estimates. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said the duties performed by the commissioner of the Insolvent Courts were exceedingly light; and as the salaries of the County Court judges had been increased, and as the time of roma of them was not fully occupied, he did not see how kthe transfer suggested could be objected to. Mr. J. WILSON said the hon. gentleman was quite mis taken in supposing that the duties of the county court judges were light. It had recently been found nett rosary to provide additional accommodation on account of the increase of business. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said if the hon. gentleman referred to the returns he would find that even in the county courts of the metropolis there was a goad deal of time unoccupied. Mr. FITZROY said the hon. gentleman was not aware, perhaps, that in the country a great deal of the insolvent business was done in the county courts. (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Williams.) Mr. A. RELLATT wished to know whether any reduc tion of exprnse was contemplated. Mr. J. WILSON believed not. The vot• Was then agreed to. 107,4031. was voted for the law expenses in Scotland. On the vote of 66,9301. for the expense of criminal prose cutions and other law charges in Ireland, Colonel DUNNE said that as Ireland wan now to be placed on an equality with England as regarded taxation, she ought to be so with respect to prosecutions. The dif ferent wises should be placed on the same footing as those of England. Mr. M'MAIION complained that in Ireland, in cases of murder and homicide, the relatives of the party killed were obliged, contrary to the practice in England, to accept as their counsel • nominee of the Irish Attorney-General, and that the appointment of incompetent counsel to con duct the prosecution often led to the failure of justice. Sir J. YOUNG in answer to Mr. M'Mshon, declined to alter the mode of carrying on crown prosecutions in Ireland. In his opinion the present system had worked exceedingly well. In answer to Colonel Dunne he admitted that the present mode of assessing county rate in Ireland was defec tive, and recommended that the attention of Irish gentle men should be directed to the subject. Mr. F. SCULLY thought that if the present system were retained a more efficient body of crown prosecutors should be selected. 56,.5001. for lij)iin police. Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the vote, being a charge on the Consolidated Fund. Vote agreed to. 240,0001. prosecutions at Assizes and Sessions formerly paid out of the county rates. Agreed te. 16,839/. general superintendence of prisons, United Kingdom. Mr. LUCAS wished this vote to be postponed. His ob- ject was to bring the prison regulations with respect to chaplains generally under the consideration of the house.: Sir DE L. RVANS suggested that as the Hack ney Carriages Bill was on the paper the chairman should now report progress. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the early despatch of the first orders hail enabled the house to get into supply sooner than was expected. He hoped the h,.use would go on regularly with the votes, and get on as far with them as possible. The vote was agreed to. Mr. LUCAS suggested that they should now report progress. Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the hon. member would not press his mixion. 407,7671. for prisons. Mr. LUCAS moved that the chairman report progress. Lord J. RUSSELL appealed to the committee to reject the motion. If the bon. member had objections to make to any particular vote, the committee would hear them then. Mr. LUCAS objected that in this vote there was not a single sixpence asked for catholic chaplains in Eng land or Scotland, wh in Ireland the difference in reli gion of criminals was recognised and provided for. Mr. V. SMITH thought the hon. member's proposition a most unreasonable one at that hour of the night (eleven o'clock), but if he wan obstinately determined on his motion his hon. friend would facilitate business by passing over this vote and proceed to the others. There was one subject in connexion with this vote upon which some explanation would doubtless be given by the noble lord, the Home Bceretury, neon ly. transient ition. ent7tT577,7.,.:771 present estimates under tist heed. Ile w.s out seer a t h e . the system of transportation had clan, d, but et all es( me they sere entitled to tome explanation as to the iiieri-aie is the :liar, e, and as to the seconder, punisloneut thst wy to be substituted for traneportation. Lord J. RUSSELL had no thjeetion to the course Id s right hon. friend suegested, if the L:u. geutletnan upp,,j te persisted in his of jection. With regard to the important subject which his ught hon. friend had m ent i oned. it w.e undoubtedly desirable that on some early occasion the views of the government should be stated to the house. It would be necessary before long to introduce a billet% the su,ojeet, and on that ucc.sion, or on a set. quent d:scusoion of ti ns vote, his noble friend (Lord Palmerston), would state whet those views were. lie would withdraw this vote lot th e present. Mr. LLTAS withdrew his motion for reporting prow. ; and the vote was postponed. The following votes were agreed to : 160,4661., for the m eintenunce of prisoners in aunty gaols, be philanthropic institutions, lunatie asylum.. 69,5..61., for expenses counected with the ttatsportdien of convicts. 244,0541, for convict establishments in the co:oeii s. 2110,0001, fur public education in Great Critsiat. 182,073 t., fur national education in Ireland. 41.476/., for the Departments of Science and Art mid of the geological survey of Great Britain and Ireland, and 6,340/., for the Royal Dublin Society. 2,0061, for professors at Oxfurd and Cambridge, wa: next proposed. Mr. WILLIAMS considered it discreditable for the Uni versities to come every year to the pubiic taxes of the e.ui. try for the salaries of their prof. %Dors. The reveller e: t h e colleges of one of these universities amounted to lioe,etiot, and the other to 183,0001. a year, and surely they could .iford to pay this charge. lie should take a division against the vote. Mr. HADFIELD opposed the vote. . . . . Mr. BLACKETT wished to put a question to the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) upon a subject of some importan ce in connexion with the Universities of Oxfurd and C ass bridge. Some time ago, in speaking of the improvements which he said ought to be introduced into these institevions, the noble lord said he should be toth to invite the a•sistar.c e of parliament to carry out such improvements, Ind. so the Universities evinced an unwillinpiess to take ceps to in troduce them themselves, and he intimated two or three years as the period, at the expiration of which, if the Cut. versities did not take those steps, the government would interfere. That statement was extremely vagu e , a n d h e hoped the noble lord would fix some more definite period, that the Universities might have fair notice of when the government would interpose it they did not carry not the necessary improvements? Lord J. RUSSELL—In reference to the vote under dis cussion, had stated on several previous occasions that the universities felt aggrieved at some of the stamp dud sto which they were subjected, and especially to the stem:, re quired on taking degrees. and that they considered that they were more burdened by those taxes than beneli.ed by this vote. But the whole of these questions would be Con. sidered by the government, and if any arrangement could be come to by w hich it would be unnecessary to ask for this vote in future he should be glad. (Hear.) With mind to the question which the other hon. gentleman (Mr. She kett) had put to him he (Lord J. Russell) did not think he stated when he referred to the subject before that in one or two, or in two or three years government would censider themselves free to propose a measure for improving the uni versities if nothing was done in the meanwhile by those establishments themselves. What he tail was, that be did not think it expedient to propose any such measure during the present session, but beyond that he did nut consider the government bound. Sir It. INGLIS contended that these professorships, which were formerly maintained by the crown, were paid by parliament under a distinct understanding made when the civil list was fixed. Sir DE L. EVANS thought as the universities of Oxford and Cambridge were largely endowed, they ought not to come to parliament to defray these charges. Mr. A. PELLATT opposed the vote. After a few words from Mr. WILLIAM 3 and Mr. 11. DieuxmoND, :sir. DRUMMOND—The property of the crown was pledged to this grant, and you took the property of the crown with all its incumbrances, and now you refuse to pay those incumbrauces, though you prutiten large :y by your bargain. Mr. WILLIAMS did not press his amendment to a divi sion, aid the vote was agreed to. The following votes were agreed to:- 3,9551., for the University of London. 8,0291, for Universities in Scotland. 3001., for the Royal Irish Academy. 3001., for the Royal Hibernian Academy. On the next vote of 2,7501., fur theological professors at Belfast, Mr. MIALL raid be understood this vote was for the support of religious teaching ■t Belfast. Many members had objected that evening to a similar vote for Mnynooth, on the principle that no public money should be given to any religious teaching, and inconsistency with that principle he should divide the house against the vute. Sir R. INGLIS explained, that he only voted against the grant to Maynooth on the ground that the teaching there was of that which he disapproved, but he had not the same objection to other votes for religions teaching. Mr. A. PELLATT did not oppose this vote on religions grounds, but on the principle that there should be no en. dowments by the state for religious teaching. The committee divided, For the vote Against The fullowisg votes were then agreed to : 1,681/. for the Queen's University in Ireland. 22,7101. for the British Mu s eum (New Buildingo. 1,500/. British Museum (Purchases). 4,263/. fur the National Gallery. 2,200/. for Scientific Works and Experiments and obatr vations. The C h airman then reported progress, and the home re sumed. shunter, of the parks in common with her Majority, but he claimed for the public the freest acmes to all these ;thieve far which so mash of their money was paid. Ho wislied to tall the right boo gentleman's attention to the fact that • SUM of 100.0001. received from the crown revenues was not accounted Inc in any way. lle would not press this, however, -as the right bun. baronet had come so recently into office that he could hardly be expected to know much about it ; end more (specially after the honest and straightforward course taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer of paying the whose of the revenue into the Exchequer, soil voting ' the charges,so that they might come directly under the con trol of the house. lie should be glad to hear from the right hon. baronet that it was intended to proceed with Battersea park forthwith, and that there was no intention of acceptinz an offer which it was said had bee. made by an eminent speculator to purchase the land from the peers ment at the price which had been paid for it. Sir W. MOLESWORTH said it was true • proposal had been made by Mr. Cubitt to take the land which had been purchased fur Battersea Park oil the hands of the gov(rn ment at the price they gave for it, but that proposal had not been seceded en, nor was there any intention of acceding to it. (Cheers) Witlt regard to the appropriation of the land revenues, it was not a matter within his department; he believed, however, that since 1851 the receipts had re gularly been accounted foe. Sir It INGLIS, as use of the commissioners for metro politan improvements, was aware that Mr. Cubitt hail offered to purchase the land appropriated for Battersea Park, and to pay thi , whole expense the government had in ' marred. That offer was a most liberal one, but the government had felt it their duty to decline it. The hon. gentleman then urged that the arrangement by which the crown revenues were exchanged for the civil list was far more advantageous to the people than the mown, and that that fact would appear from returns on the sub ject. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that with reference to the offer of Mr. Cohitt, he meant no reflection on that gentleman ' as he had been very liberal in coming forward as he did. As to the loss to the crown by the exchange of its revenues fur the civil list, the returns to which the hon. gentleman al luded were meet fallacious. At the same time he had always said that, if the crown ues hail been properly managed, they would have been equal to the civil list. Mr. BROTHERTON agreed an the propriety of eats blishing paths in London; but at the same time, consider ing that this was the richest city in the world, he should be glad to see the rich put their hands in their pockets for that purpose. In the provinces subscriptions were entered into for the purpose, and in Mancheeter 30.0001. had been contributed in that way for the establishment of parks. Sir DE L. EVANS called attention to the unfinished stene of the Nelson monument in Trafalgar-square; the condition of which was very discreditable to thii couStry Nine yeas ago Sir It. Peel's government undertook to have it finished, and he did hope the First Commissioner of Works ...odd see that it was completed without delay. Sir W. MOLESWORTH believed that a sum had been voted for finishing the monument. He world make inquiry into the subject. Mr. EWA RT inquired whether some improvement could not he made in Rcoten-row, Hyde park, which was now very much crowded, by eontiouing the ride to the west side ' of the pa-k, which could be done by sorely filling up the sunk fence at a place which was very little frequented. Sir W. MOLESWORTH said he proposed to double the width e( Rotten-row. (liter, hear.) The plan suggested by his hon. friend had been brought under his considera tion, but he did not propose to take a vote for it this year, ' as he intended to inquire into the matter, and probably take a vote for it next yes.. Sir J. SHELLEY had been requested to make a sugges tion to the right hon. gentleman. Owing to the influx of passengers from the Great Western Railway, the end of Park-lane in Ozford-street wee injured as a thorsghfare. The parishes adjoining suggested that if they got a sub scription for the purpose, perhaps the right hon. gentle man would allow the iron railing to be thrown back. • Sir W. MOLESWORTH said that might be a good plan, and if a subscription was raised, and the hon. gentleman could let him know the amount subscribed, he would give him au answer. . _ Mr. A. HASTIE aid that people in the proyinceeviewed with jealousy the votes for parks in the metropolis, and thought they should be kept up in the manner mentioned by the hon. member fur Salford. In Glasgow a sum of 80,0001. had been raised for parks, and when that town asked for an alteration in the money order otflee, which would have been • great public convenience, at a cost of only 4,0001 it was 'erased. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that sums bad been voted by parliament for parks in the provinces. He observed two sums of 2,104/. and 2,7401. fur charges in the ranger's de partment of Richmond Park. What was the salary of the ranger I Lord J. RUSSELL—The ranger was the Duchess of Olouoester, who had no salary or only a nominal one. The expenses in question were for keeping up the park. The vote was then agreed to. THE HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. - ----- On the next vote of 145,7741. for the works of the New Houma of Parliament, . . Mr. SPOONER said he should like to know what these grants were for, and to have some statement of the expense already incurred for the houses of parliament. Sir W. MOLESWORTH—If the boa. gentleman would move for • return, be would lay it on the table. Mr. W. WILLIAMS wished to know who superiatended the expenditure of the interior of the house. He found a charge for lighting with oil and wax the offices and division lobties of the house 6 8211., and for gas in both houses 1 2,8411., being nearly 10,0001. for lighting alone. Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the lighting was in the department of the Sergeant at-Arms ; the lighting of the roof was under the control of Mr. Matson ; the gas was supplied by contract. Mr. WILLIAMS—As the gas was cheaper than of and candles, it would be better to use that more generally. (No, no.) Hr. SPOONER said there was an item on account of carcase walls and ordhsary finishing of the building, in cluding warming and ventilating works, 91,7001. He be lieved that a sans of 26,0001, had been. already expended on the ventilation of the house. What was this sues for? Was not the house ventilated already ? Certainly, the ventilation was very unsatisfactory, for the house was al ways alternating between great heat and great cold. He hod been told by /dr. Goldtsworthy Gurney that the whole nresent apparatus for ventilation was useless, and that be would undertake for • few hundred pounds to take it all out and keep the house regularly ventilated. He (Mr. Spooner) had no hesitation in saying that the ventilation of the house was disgraceful. (Hear, hear.) Unless some explanation was given he would make • Potion on the subject. Sir W. MOLESWORTH said this 91,0001. was chiefly for the carcase walls and progress of the works, and bad no reference to the ventilation of the house. fa to the venti lation of the house, he was well aware of the talents of Mr. Gurney, and there was no doubt he could make en altera tion in the ver tilatioa ; but it would caws a large outlay if the whole plan was chanFed. Mr. Meeson had been en gaged for one year, and it was but fair that he should have a trial. - Mr. SPOONER was Worsted that t►e stoves and flues of the Robiag-roan had bees takes up, at a great espease. Was that a fret? Sir W. MOLIMIWOUTH wu not aware of it, but be would inquire. Sir DE L. EVANS said a year was a long time to en dure the present ventilation. He was surprised to bear his right hos. friend:ssy the other night that they wereso com fortable on the Tremor, !Pub. (.. Hear," and a laugh.) He wished to ask whether Mr. Gunny had given any esti mate for his plea of ventilating the house. Lithe sum required was not large it would be desirable to have it placed under his charge menu than a year hence. Sir W. MOLESWORTH—Mr. Gurney has not been asked for an estimate. said no answer had been given to the question as to whether the expenditure of the houses of peasant was nader the control of the Treasury or the &lard of Works. Sir W. MOLBSWORTH—The expenditure for the new weeks was ender the control of Sir °harks Barry, who gave SD estimate ter tbe year to the Board of Works. Mr. SPOONNL—Was the whole expenditure under Sir Charles IllarYskiellr4 without any eontrol from the Trea sury on the Boa of Weeks ? Sir W. 'll—lt is nadir the control el the T . All the Commiwioner a Works heti to do was, when Charles Barry certified that a certain amount 8p 6srai l:z el week was as examination was made to see if it bad bees , but the control was is the Treasury. Mr. NBR—Has the Treasury any control ? Mr. WILSON admitted the unsatisfactory state of the expenditure en the houses of parliament. The subject had occupied the attention of the Chancellor of the Bachequer and himself, who had called on Sir Charles Barry to render such accounts as would enable them to 'pertain the state they were in, and be hoped to lay before the hones full se counts of all that had besa done. Mr. BRIGHT said he believed there was nothing In I Swops like the management of the expenditure on the houses of parliament, end its results. With regard to the ventilation of the house, not only was the temperature very bad, and members subjected to continual draught., but what he principally had to complain of was the quantity of dust.—(hear, hear)—which was always' suspended in the atmosphere of the house. Every one who spoke for any length of time had to provide himself with &supply of water or erasures; and if • datnp sheet of paper was fixed in any part of the holm, is an hoar or two it would become like lead-paper from the accumulation of dust on it ,and which was inhaled by every sue in the house. The house was the worst possible place fur any o ne t o s it i n , an d h e th oug ht th e right hon. gentleman should apply all his energies to pro vide • remedy. If sot, be (Mr. Bright) should make a mo tion that the hones should meet in some other building till some remedy was found. The ventilation of the house was etsadalous and permanently pernicious to members. Mr. H. J. BAILLIE said the dust complained of by the hen. member was the result of the system of bringing sir into the house through the floor, sad it could not be ro• media. unless the system was changed. Mr. W. WILLIAMS inquired of the Secretary to the Treasury, whether Sir Charles Barry bad made any esti mate of the future expense of the homes of parliament. Two estimates bad beets made—the lest was 700,0001., and the second amounted to more than two millions. Was there any new estimate made, or would one be made ? Mr. WILSON could not exactly promise a new esti mate. What was being done was this :--that the Treasury was determined to know exactly the condition in which the expenditure was, and when that information womanised they would turn their attention to the cheepst made of finishing the building. They were clearly depiniao that things could not go on as they were. Caw, lbw.) Az. W. WILLIAMS wished to sadswasi whether Sis HACKNEY CARRIAGES BILL. On the motion for going into committee on this bin, Sir R. INGLIS said he regretted to detain the Louse, but the subject of this bill was so new and important that be hoped other members were not in the same state of ignor ance as he had been with regard to the amount of property involved. They bad dealt with property in one civision of hackney carriages,—namely, that of omnibuses, exceed ing 1,700,000/ , and as regarded cabs something like 800,0001. was involved. Besides this the livelihood of many thousands of persons was involved, and when that was considered, the question of pounds, shillings, and pence was merged in the higher consideration of the permanent interests itvolved. A bill involving interests so high was never submitted to the house without a previous investigation of the subject. He was sure his hon. friend, whose name was on the back of the bill, did not know, or, if he did, he had not infermed the house, that precisely the same bill was brought forw..rd eighteen or nineteen years ago, and was submitted to the tribunal to which he wished this bill to go. It was not usual to legislate on these subjects withcnt a previous investigation by a select committee. Hod his hon. friend satisfied the house that he had investigated the matter, and that he was prepared without consulting the parties interested to fix the amount they were to recei se for their remuneration. But the bill involved other considera tions. It involved the liberty of the subject. In the 14th clause there were a number of offences without any defined penalties, but clause 7 enacted that if any offence were committed against the provisions of the act to which no specific penalty was attached, the magistrate before whom the conviction took place might either inflict a penalty of 40a., or a term of imprisonment not exceeding a month. He moved that the bill be reterted to a select committee. Lard D. STUART seconded the amendment. . Mr. FITZROY considered the hon. baronet and the noble lord had failed to make out any sufficient cave for a select committee. They had only suggested amendments which could be well enough discussed In the committee of the whole house. The amendment would, in fact, destroy the chance of the bill's ever becoming law. The select com mittee would only take the evidence of cab and omnibus proprietors, for who would there be to represent the public interests ? (Hear, hear.) The house itself was quite competent to consider the entire subject. (Hear, hear.) Tho hon. baronet was somewhat in error in saying that there had been no measure respecting hackney car riages for It) years ; for the act by which the licensing system was establis hed was passed is the Gth and 7th year of the present reign. The powers proposed to be given to the commissioners of police were not more than were abso- lowly essential to the efficient working of the measure, and av they would be exercised under the control of the Home Secretary there need be no fear lest they should be abused. The power of appeal contended fur would render the bill nugatory, for it might permit hones and vehicles wildly unlit for public use to be employed for a period of nearly three months after the license had been suspended. (Hear, hear.) When hon. members talked of the immense amount of property embarked in the trade, they should also bear in mind the immense number of persons using public vehicles in the metropolis. Allowing each omnibus to have only 250 passengen per diem, it would give • total of 300 mil lions of persons conveyed in a single year. (Hear, hear.) He should certainly resist the amendment. (Cheers.) Mr. B. DEXISON supported the proposal for a select committee. Sir J. SHELLEY remarked that neither the hon. bart. nor the noble lord noticed the great feature of the bill-- namely, the reduction of fares ; a reduction which he (Sir J. Shelley) thought would prove in the long run beneficial even to the proprietors themselves. (Hear, hear.) lion. members had alluded to the property invested in cabs and omnibuses; but he appealed to the house whether there was a large town either in England or on the continent where the public vehicles were of so wretched a character. As an instance of the good that would result from the bill, be might mention a circumstance which had recently we curred to himself. Some days ago he Lad accidentally left a large bundle of papers distinctly marked with his name in a cab, and it was only that very day thecae Hansom cabdriver—(a laugh)—had brought them to his house in the hope of obtaining a reward. If the bill had been law he should have been furnished with a ticket spe ' cifying the number of the cab, and should have been able to find the driver in an hour or two. (Hear, bear.) Mr. NEWDEGATE, amidst some impatience, dwelt on the public inconvenience of the proposed enactment, by which he supposed any passenger in an omnibus who might have a dispute with the conductor might demand to be driven from police office to police office until he found one open. It was, however, explained to the hon. gent:cman that the clause only applied to cabs. Mr. MALINS said the present cabs were a di , .graca to Vie metropolis ; they were nothing but boards famed toge ther. (Hear, hear.) They had no springs, and the drivers . were the most ignorant men in the world ; they did out 100 Moth ma' *hi the for at of bil thi WG