The Express. — London, England, 1847-03-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE Il OF COMM theONSchair.—WEreasilty, MARCII 3. The hrlAa took et tirelve o'clock. NU VATZ BUSINEIII. PE77IIONB.—By Mr. II how theWellersiot of the Raver Thome, egoists the iloregerry W ILL SECOND LIKADINOIS — sod lunette° WA. vm. (deelodes et a.); Birio es* Word junctioe he, iblarrk oed Illeodbed km) ;71eepaa. v. olverbasoptrA, and play, (altilealdre to ed Meat ilinxualcbl ; Prate,. c,,,,,,,„ ties Liam/ Penimaaa bl. . 7 . 11 . M. Mult , '.4 llailway ;Lr eod Irs.11 . 1 = 1 :1 ILE:a. . 1 R. 1." and Lynn at Denim Counties Bail at las Ifortliriallwa7). Eastern C = 7 IdLa t tlia. W. awl laabstree Itillway amy a se* aai thilittat Maw and w a ke I lend& Ida WIZ . 1 . lamome• R a lf wer ( . ..o. S) (dormodos its Bury di. NaIIMMIC• Is Sillibmilli Land= aid Node-Woken Is& ... y (Rinikomakol Lama Ina :a.); Pisaembar. Mika. sod MOM brace Bair 0 Devmin... lei a i a Bo: way (ESmisa state Nellighem laid Lamas re* at Lomb); ?tetnienteet aid Chodortkrd Railvay o toug d p .o6. admiim the empeeoo INs do lot ea the Eastern Deondes 2.... A . ;. w............. ~.., Dublin Railway: eih taa. d Waititir • London an t riori t Meeteed .) to Berkswell, .braackee. la); ladle Pr a edneeters (Coventry ask Narks brewers) ; rodeo mad Melba/ellen Italivrey (Mbtaawit oil Wltlarta branch) E. PUBLIC BUIEWERL TETITIONS.-137 Sir O. toraumumns. from Dowsboay; Mr. Nom. DiGATS ((four petit:tom), tram Lard 0, ftrnsce dry ',endow), from Burg sod 2110tillt Awe ; Us O.ooirt, tram surgeons ; Mr. Wmadv, hoot ftMilant of the Rept Surgeons ; Lord lone Roma; from lieuelester, Bury, md RAMIS ; MAGXIAT. Ikea and Ourobotousb ; Mr. T. Dulinnonk from !i'rf eel elm lleMe all he favour of the radars 1111.—/te. me hen tine fru peruse, moieties, agidnat the oar .1 hi the dlieliellee ef ardent pints.—Mr. IhnfOONISi, &Qin block-printers la the au* be ea ed. ante of 30,0004 ofd for emplommeat.—Mr. Wan" tea Luebeth, for the aboLties l taus co faad. RAILWAYS. On the motion of Mr. Stour!, it was ordered, that the comenqteeein every railway bill shall fix the toile, and shall determine the maximum rates of charge for the conveyance of passengers, with a due amount of luggage, and of goods en such railway, and such rates of charge shall include the tolls, and the costs of locomotive power, and every other ex pense connected with the conveyance of passengers, with a due amount of luggage, and of goods upon such railway ; but if tho committee shall not deem it expodieat to deter mine such maximum rates of charge, a special report, expla natory of the grounds of their omitting so to do, shall he made to the house, which special report shall accompany the report of the bill. FACTORIES BILL. On the order of the day that the house go into committee ela this bill, Mr. ESCOTT rose to move, as an amendment, that the bill be committed that day six months. Those who considered that in this measure they were bene fiting the labouring population in cur manufacturing dis tricts, might be very benevolent persons, but they were at the same time most erroneous in their views. He himself regarded it as a =cameo which, in crippling energies and capital, would inevitably most materially cripple the energies of labour, and deprive tee workmen of a considerable portion of that employment which at present scarcely sufficed for their subsistence. Take the ease of Hare Mills, two-thirds of the workmen engaged upon them were employed out of the walls, and their employment wholly depended 01 the =aerials supplied them day by day from within. What would be their condition when the production of those within was limited in the way proposed ? With respect to the foreign trade, the proposed bill was the maddest project ever thought of. Why, the foreign trade so much exceeded the consumption of this country, that reducing the hours of labour would destroy more than the entire of our home consumption. Besides, this bill was introduced at a time of European scarcity. Was this a moment to say to the workman, " You *hall not work." when provisions were eta famine price, and it required all his energies to scramble for a subsistence? (Hear, hear.) He had high authority for deprecating the proposed measure. On the let July, 1839, the noble lord the First Lord of the Treasury, speaking on the motion of Lord Ashley, said, Did the noble lord mean to Es the wages while he cur tailed the hours of labour ? If he did, he meant to do what was impossible ; if he did not, the commit.* must know that to shorten the hoursoflabour, ate time, too, when provision' were so dear, would be inhumanity. Therefore, he must vote against the measure." (Hear, hear.) Why had the noble lord changed his opinion in 1847 ? Were provisions lower? were times better? (Hear, hear.) Another reason why they should hesitate in passing this measure was the had succces which had attended former interference. The supporters of the bill, said, You have interfered already ; it is only a question of degree, why not go further ?" In his opinion that was a reason why they should not go further. Every former interference was promised to be final, but it only created a necessity for further interference. The Ap- , prenticeship Act only brought about the employment of unapprenticed children, and the Factory Act of 1832 increased the labour of women in factories to an unpre cedented degree. A noble lord, formerly a member of that house (Lord Ashley), had made many speeches on the question, generally garnished with dreadful statements of the horrors of factory labour,—etatements which he (Mr. Esoott) would engage to get up respecting almost any system of labour. (Hear, hear.) He contended that the noble lord had condescended to use garbled statements. On referring to the commission reports which the noble lord bad used, be found evidence to this effect. A foreman being ex amined, said, Our men sometimes work half an hour over time. They never grumble at it, and sometimes ask it." He had never heard the noble lord read that extract. (Hear, hear.) Again, a working man said, " I like sixteen hours work as well as twelve, it is very welcome when the pay-day comes." Another said, " I dont know that the over-time does us any harm, but I know that the over-pay does us a great deal of good." There were many ether pieces of evidence of the same kind, proving among other things that the children preferred the factory work in winter. The hon. and learned member having quoted the evidence of the Rev. Mr. Fielding to show that there was nothing in factory labour injurious either to le alth or morality, proceeded to say: The noble lord should have quoted this evidence, and then the house would have heard both rides of the question. (Hear, bear.) There was a memorial which had been presented that morn ing, and to which the house could not pay too much atten tion. It was signed by the representatives of three-fourths of the wealth of Lancahire, and stated that legislative in terference with factory labour could not be reconciled with any sound principle. It would only cause the emigration of capital from the country, and must prove a series' ob acle to the employment of labour. The memorialists protested against further interference, and threw the whole respon sibility of the measure on her Majesty's tovernment. He implored the government to refuse their sanction. The working men were acting under a delusion. He believed that if they were convinced that reduction of labour must be attended with reduction of wages they would reject it at once. This menthre would not settle the question, it would never be settled while the working clams were exposed to periodical distress and consequently discontent, and therefore he trusted that the house would reject the bill. He moved that it be committed that day six months. Mr. BECKETT, who was scarcely audible, was under stood to oppose the amendment. He believed that the opera tives were sincerely anxious for the vuccees of the bill. (Hear, hear.) They had discussed it in their clubs and over their pots of ale, and they were convinced that prolonged labour was most injurious to the constitution. They were supported in this view by many of the manufacturers, who , had petitioned in favour of an Eleven HOLM' Bill. (Hear, hear.) He was inclined to support that view himself, for although he should prefer ten hours, yet he was unwilling suddenly to disturb long-established systems. An Eleven Hours' Bill would be • great improvement, it would take off the last hour of toil, and permit the workmen to spend some time among their families. It would also enable them to attend evening lectures, schools of design, and other educa tional institutions. The petitioners to whom he alluded had tried eleven hours, it had worked well, and wagee bad not diminished in proportion. (Hear, hear.) With these views it was his intention to support the bill. Mr. WARD said that the house bad frequently , advanced and retreated on this question. First, the motion of the noble lord the member for Doraetshire was carried by a small majority ; and no sooner was it carried than it was reversed. Last year, after a full disc-union, the =canes was negatived by a majority of 10; and this year the second reading pawed by a majority of 108. The house then divided in favour of a ten hours bill ; the hon. member for Leeds now proposed a mass termine, in the shape of an eleven hours' bill, hoping thereby to settle the queetion. He (Mr. Ward) did not be lieve that it could thus be settled; his honourable friend the member for Oldham would not accept each a settlement. (" Hear," from Mr. Fielden.) The whole question was, could they pass the bill without reducing wages ? If they thought they could, if they were certain of it, he would go the whole way with them and vote for a ten hours' bill. (Hear, hear.) He knew that in the view he took of this question, he differed from many of his constitu ents and from several members of the government, but he had the deepest convictions as to the course he ought to take. He had last year pointed out the danger of encouraging delusions among the working classes, and also that the home was giving a legislative sanction to the proceedings of the trades' unions. He believed that there was sot one of the working men who would take a ten hours' bill if they were sure of a reduction of wages. (Cries of " Olt, oh," and " Hear, hear.") Let them be asked, and his state ment would be found to be correct. (Hear.) In some of the statements he had made last year, relative to the trades' unions, he believed he had overstated one point, namely, es to fathers being prohibited taking their own sone as appren nose. It bad since been explained to him, that except in some insignificant branches of trade that unnatural metric non did not exit. lie felt bound thus to correct publicly his former misstatement. (Hear.) He was quite willing to admit that in one town, where short time had been tried , it bad worked well hitherto, and bad produced tempo r ary advantages to the working cloves. By arrangements amongst themselves wages bad bean kept up, but the question was, could this be done permanently (Hear.) In hardware, cotton, and others of our mciet w isis t ioetant ma nufacture*, 2 or 3 per cent. would turn the cosiest us in neutral markets, and if by raising the coat production this result should take place, we thou* permanently shut out this great source of employment for mar working classes. Even the warmest advocates of the working clams looked upon the measure as an experiment only, and not one of them did more than hope for its mew= and it was for the home to ponder well upon the probabilities of that hope being realised before they consented to Incur the risk. As to the argument about the ingratitude of the free traders in refusing this boon, as it was termed, to the operatives, it ma be remeab-red that free trade was not a name merely, has a Wag. Free trade was a measure, the benefits at which would develops themselves gradually, not at once. He ohm idetre his vote in favour of delaying the operation 414 r Ups .tile reminding, the vote to which the house had. sable believed, most unadvisedly came the other day ; for, of all times, 'as thought that the most unhappily chosen far an experiment of this nature, when the scarcity end high price of corton was occiaioning a diminution in the demand for labour, while the price of provisions was rising. Seeing the Cfficulties occasioned by dear cotton—dear teed—a great calamity in Ireland, which was now spreading its influence over other parts of the world—an influx of fresh labour coming in from every quarter—he mutt say this wes a moat, unhappy time to attempt by enactment to limit the hour.; of l a bour. Though no one could hope more sincerely 'tan he did that the experiment, if tried, would be succee4n), yet, entertaining the views he did, he should be neceding his duty if he did not give his vote in favour of delay. Mr. BROTHEATON contended that the question for the house to consider Aas whether females and young per sons from 13 to 18 years of age should be compelled to work thirteen hours every day in • fetid atmosphere without re tention ? He could of his own knowledge my that the operatives themselves were generally in favour of the mea sure. (Hear.) He admitted that it was most desirable for the state to avoid as far as possible interfering with the employment of labour. Bat if the House of Commons I were to Inn, everything to the roles of political economy, their la'aoure would be very much curtailed (Hear.) Thoy i interNred with these rules every day. They had interfered i witlathetu in their legislation as between landlord and tenant —roaster and apprentice—shipowners and seamen, and in a hundred other cases. (Hear.) Political economists argued against all legislation on the subject of factory labour. Why, then, was a factory bill ever passed? Because it was found that working in factories was an exception to the general i rule. When, in 1815, the late Sir lb. :'eel brought forward his bill it was ascertained that many of the mills were kept ruaning seventy to ninety hours • week, and that children of six years of age were often compelled to vdorie that number of hours in the same time. 1 hat, the house thought, was a sufficient ground for deputing from the rules of political economy and interfering as between the employer and the employed. If all men were humane there would be no need of legislation—or if they were to ley it down that the working classes were made to eat, to drink, to work, and to die only, they might then safely leave these things to the strict rules of political economy. (Hear.) It was said, leave this matter to the parties themselves, and they will come to an arrangement, but had they done so ? Nothing ef the kind, nor was there any hope of such • result. (Hear, hear.) It was in consequeuce of the pre poaderance of females in factories that this further legis lation was necessary. They had legislated to protect the children, because they were weak; and they must now, for the same reason, interfere for the protection of the females In factories, the weak worked side by side with the strong, and, while the one might beat up against the labour without inconvenience, the other would sink under it. When he was a boy, he knew what it was for the weak to work those long hours, by his own experience as • factory worker. He had feelings and sentiments then on the subject, and formed the resolution that, if ever he had the power, he would use hie utmost endeavours to bring about a di minution of the bears of labour for women and children. (Cheers.) And be was proud to say that this feeling of his boyhood was retained in his elder age. (Hear, hear.) He did not accuse tits masters of inhumanity in working their hands long beam Capital and labour were so combined, and compe tition was so powerful, that it was impossible for any master to resin the temptation to do so, unless all were com pelled to take the same course. Even the honourable member for Oldham, rich as he was, were he to carry out in his own mills the humane principles be advo cated, would, onkel there were a law requiring all to do the same, soon be in the Osseo.. (Hear, hear.) The working dames would not be alarmed by the statement that a reduction of wages meat necessarily follow • diminu tion in the hours of labour. They knew that the greater part of their work was said for be the niece. and nut by time They looked to what had been the result of former changes, emd they bead that whereas, during the last thirty years, the pries of the welds bed thestasted more than 40 per cent., wages hod mot deeremed 1111111 than lor 2 per cent. Nor did he I=l the larr contemplated bye to non. mem ber for in doe ling off of our exports, as resulting frees the eedustion in the hours of labour. The man entered during the last year, would more Mena all such reductions. The prophecies albs limiters se to the ruinous effeete to our commerce of aWilliting the hours of labour, had not been borne out by the mink of the previous enactments in that direction. On the eontrary, our exports bad gone on increasing, and last ' year we exported 26,000.000 of cation yarn more than during the previous year. The export of cotton goods had also ma terially ineemend in that, as compared with the preceding, year. no codnetion of the cotton-tax alone, which was wild to M. • week in the wages of the operatives, would mew lima muspensate the masters for any decreased produc ' Men eemeetnest on a diminution in the hours of labour. It was a meeker, and a delusion to tell the working classes that CRP:rwas anxious to promote their physical and moral erun by establishing parks and institutions, while 1 they were compelled to labour twelve or thirteen hours • day. He did not believe the statement that if this bill mooed —which he had the highest authority for saying was not to decease wages. but to advance wages at the expense of oapital—that the working classes would continue to agitate. He believed the measure would be advantageous to all pees, and when the operatives once felt the benefit of it he vie convinced they would cease to be agitator,. (Hear.) Sir J. GRAHAM had listened with muds pleasure to the speech of the hon. member for Salford, the more so as he was not till then aware that, as a factory operative, he had admi nistered with his own hands to his own wants. (Hear.) That circumstance reflected great honour upon the hon. gentleman, and it afforded him (Sir J. Graham) not a little gratification to sit in that house with him on terms of perfect equality—(hear, hear)—fer the speech of the hon. gent. was of itself the most convincing proof that from the very humblest classes of the community gentlemen might rise to stations of the highest importance and influence by the exercise of honest industry and unblemished integrity (hear); but the course of life to which the hon. gentleman owed his success bad been compatible with long hours of labour; and he was himself a proof that, by careful employment of time in that branch of industry they were now discussing, the moat useful and honourable acquirements were compatible with long hours of labour. He could not admit the doctrine that when you could not convince the multitude you should give way to them. (Hear.) The question was not as the hoe. pandeman had put it, whether or not they should compel wanes and children to work twelve hours a day; it was, whether they should, by direct legislation, restrain large ' misme of industrious persons, who were willing to work twelve hours a day, for the purpose of earning theirjivelihood, from doing so. When such large masses were concerned, he admitted that it might not in all cases be wise to adhere to the strict rules of political economy and could he eatia s i sh imeelf that this measure would be sonducive to the of those for whose benefit it was Wended, it woo not adherence to that science, as the mass of ethinceing and distributing with equality and Nile, the welbsal wealth, which would induce him to meet the bill with the firm opposition he felt compelled to oar to it. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman had made one observation which was by no means convincing to him, He had asked, " Shall we lay it down that to eat, to drink, to work, and to die, only, shall be the lot of a large portion of our fellow-men ?" He was compelled by truth to say that, not in this country alone, but in all other, that weeregarded by the larger number as the sum of human life. And it being thus, by the dispensation of providence, necessary that they should work for their subsistence, the question was, !should they, by legislative interference, assist them in passing their lives in comparative ease and comfort, or add to the difficulties of their existence, and still further embitter their lot? Having given his best attention to the = and with reference to the political question, he was by the position which the Chancellor of the Exche quer had taken up in regard to our foreign trade and the revenue, while, with reference to the working classes, he had little to add to what bad been stated by the hon. secretary to the admiralty (Mr. Ward). The hon. gentleman (Mr. Brotherton) had referred to the amount of our exports and foreign trade, and had said that the export' in the cotton trade had not materially diminished. He (Sir J. Graham) held in hii hand an account of the trade and navigation of the country, which contained a statement of the exports of 1846 as compared with those of 1845. The bill they were disowning dealt with the labour in the four great etude, — cotton, wool, linen or flax, and silk. He found that the declared value of the whole of our exports -- the spe cified articles was, .in the year 1840, 61,279,0001. Of this, 37,386,0001., or about four-efthe of the whale, was in cotton, linen, wool, and silk. Now as to cot ton : the export of cotton manufactures in 1846, as compared with 1846, mm0'817,726,0001. in 1846 to 19,156,0001. in 184,5, showing • falling off of 1,430,0001. in the declared value in one year. In linen manufacture, the export in 1846 had been 2,838,0001. against 3,036,0001. in 1845. In wool, both in yarn and manufactured goods, there was also a deficiency in 1846 as compared with 1846, the exports being in 1845—ofyarn 1,066,0001., in 1846, 907,0001. ,• and in manufa goods, in 1846, 7,693,0001., and in 1846, 6,334,0001. In silk there was • very small increase • the exports being, in 184,5, 766,0001., and in 1846, 837,0001. Thus, taking the staple articles of our manufacturing in dustry, there was a falling off between 1845 and 1846 of some 15 per cent. He would refer shortly to certain admim lien& made by the right hon. baronet (the Home Secretary) who differed from his right hon. colleague, the Chancellor of the Exchequer; admissions large in themselves, and, as he contended, almost conclusive against the right hoe. baronet's own argument. The first and most important wee, that ha would not be any party to the delusion that the proposed alteration would not necessarily lead to a reduction of wages. With prime rising, and wages having already fallen in mu mmer of the fal ling off ef employment, the right hon. ba met sentensplated a still further redaction as the result of Ms bill. (Hear.) Then, he said, hitherto the house had boom able to carry with them the concurrence of the masters is their legislation ; but, in this case, not only was that eon curium not given, bat a large majority of the master ma nufacturers and eariployera dissented, and said that it was frhught with extreme danger. Then followed another ad- Minion, which was also important, as bearing on another branch of the saltiest ; for if the health of the employed were seriously_ salami by the present hours of la. be, it would he A ser demo in their 011111116. MOM ; but, as ha aohee th e e t honourable bereret, Ida all the MMUS mil mess elhadmaidian from illaka inpemors sad gime. tibia be bars at Ms asereml. he MIMI to the ensekelen st, mass the apieltsi selphdast. Ise ahem alit IMMOI. their bed& 11116 not ha Wm.) Tim ems Pet veisk yes NW more *Weise eit the deg ben. tersest, that he spiel eikk bis eileespe dr nobki kid at the heed et dm weelictilma the temeamion of anon hosus bill weablbe 'me masgefivit nod Aright with eigeor , aid that mow Crbe wesekse to take his stunilieithedemet beam am mambas he Oldham, who unfleausnag the et the warlike elemrr amory erild tell them that the eleven beans limit would net b• to them, and that they peal sot male to *Mb awls they obtained the ten hours MIL THE EXPRESS, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 4, 1847. The propoaltialy . theteforth for wields thY riglf lane baronet contended, while it was an esperbisest uneatiefriz d and fraught with danger , would - be by no amuse • wive settlemeist of th e gustation. Year by year they be called upon to rediacuee it, having mum departed from that wh'ch, by the usage of almost half • century, was the rule f o r the running of machinery in these trades. By such a measure they would render it impossible for ma chinery to ran for twelve hours. At present, t the use of relays of children working shorter hours, and by other ar rangement', the factories were able to avoid the injurious effects which would have arisen from former legislation. lie believed that, practically speaking, dams the commencement of the present century, the hours of machinery labour had been limited to twelve, and it was now, for the first time, attempted to prohibit that by direct legislation. He had pointed out that our staple rrmr.ufaeturee were somewhere about four-fifths of our ent'se exports, and that our cotton trade alone formed one half of the declared value of our manufactures, and the vreeent measure was a forced inter ference with the capital and labour employed therein What, then, wool', be the effect upon the master manufac turers:plan abrii'.gment of the hours of labour to 11 hours ? Why, they mist either submit to a diminution of their profits, or they must raise the price of their goods, or they mutt lower t'aeir wages, or they must cease to manufacture. (Hear, hear.) Could they raise the price of their goods or increase tlieir profits ? Foreign competition prevented therm, and rerAered it impossible. Therefore, unless they ceased to meaufacture, they must lower their wages. The lion. messier for Salford, who understood the question very well, adnsitted that by limiting the hoar of labour they must diminish the quantity produced. If the quantity was dimi• ribbed, the amount of wages would necessarily be materially reduced. The foreign trade and the home market would still require an equal supply as at the present moment, and fresh manufactories should be built to afford it: that, in his opinion, would be a fruitleu, extravagant, and prodigal ' ' waste of capital. The machinery at present in operation was of two kinds, old and new. There was some old ! machinery running for twelve hours, which did not produce a quantity egoist to new machinery, which only ran for ten hours. The effects, then, of this measure, would be the destruction, by act of parliament, of a great mar of valuable , property now yielding the fruits of industry at twelve hours' ; labour, which at ten hours' could not he made to return a profit. (Hear, hear.) There were, moreover, throughout the ' manufacturing districts, arrangements of this kind fair toriea, with their machinery, were taken on a long term ad years, with a fixed annual income, taken upon the certainty of that system being continued which bad now boatel going on for nearly a century ; and if the house consented to abridge the hours of labour, they would render those leases useless, and give rise to the greatest confusion. (Hear, hear.) He would turn from the ' masters to the men—decidedly the moat important part of ' the subject. And what would be their condition when this act of parliament would be in force, and when, according to the authority of the Secretary of State for the Roma De ' partment, there would be a reduetinn of wages ? At this 1 , very ,moment , by a severe dispensation of providence, the ' price of food was very high, and still continuing to rise; and ! at the same moment, from natural mum, the price of the ' raw material was enhanced, from a abort supply. The Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that even at present a ; great many mills in Mencheeter were working 'hemline, and that no fewer than 2,200 hands were out of employment. Moreover, it was not the case, as formerly, that the high pries of food raised the price of labour. From the artificial state of society in which we lived, mat/diens in trade would inevitably take place, and, as a necessary consequence, bring, with a ' diminution in the demand for the article, • diminution in the hours of labour. Was there sense, then—was there justice-1m ' prohibiting the labourer from working twelve hours when the state of trade allowed it,thus preventing him from saving, and preparing for the time when a decrease in hie wages would take place from the fluctuations in trade ? He had on ' so many former occasions stated all the objections which ha ' entertained to this measure that it would be unpardonable if ha detained the house by again repeating them, but be was bound to eay that a deep tease of public duty had compelled him stedfastly to resist a measure which he knew to be grateful to a great number of his fellow-countrymen. ' In looking at the question, it was impossible for him to overlook the great principles of commercial polity which had been by the consent of that house established in the country. He would ask them under what circumstances they were in vited to pan the measure ? All prohibitory duties had been removed from our tariff--the corn-laws had been repealed— ' the Navigation Act had been temporarily suspended. Lord G. BENTINCH.—How long will it continue so ? Sr J. GRAHAM.—He wee stating nothing which was not a matter of fact. l'rohibit.ry duties had been abi and protective duties had been so much lowered on foreign produce, that foreign manufactures were admitted end en tered into direct competition in the home market with oar own goods. We had established the moot perfect freedom of commerce ; and his right hon. friend theimember for Tam worth might well exclaim, when surveying the empire of commercial freedom which he had contributed so much to enlarge— "llia ego nee metes rerum, nee tempera pone Imperium sine Sue doh." (Cheers.) The noble lord the member for Newark said that they should put a curb upon the manufacturers, that they should make the m feel their rider", and that such a course would not make them the lees beneficial. Was that the spirit of the Commons of England ? To "rein and curb, and snake them feel their riders." He hoped and trusted that the noble lord at the head of the government had no such feeling or ao such desire respecting the great interest upon which the prosperity of the country dernded. (" Hear, hear," from Lord John Russell.) He feared that the measure, if adopted, was exactly in the spirit of the member for Newark. It would be a curb and a bridle, under which he believed the manufacturing interest would fret, and to which it would not submit: it would be a tax upon machinery—it would be a limit to the earnings of industry—it would be a tax upon wages. (Hear, hear.) Hits operation were limited to cer tain trades, it would be unequal and unjust ; if 'ln tended to all trades, it would be an iatolerab'e burden ; while it would prove subversive of all those great principles upon which our commerce and manufactures rested. Circumstances were peculiarly favourable in giving a facility for adopting this measure ; but if it were adapted, he ventured to predict that the time was not far distant when them manufacturing operatives who now called for it would be themselves the first to demand its repeal. But before they did so, much injury might he done, and an irre parable wound, without designing it, might be inflicted on the vital interests of the country. (Hear, hmr.) It was moat painful to him to resist a measure which was grateful to a large portion of his fellow-countrymen ; but he never gave a vote in that house with a more firm conviction of his being right, or with greater purity of motives, than he would that day record hie vote against the measure. Sir G. GREY said that having upon the second of the bill stated his reasons for voting in favour of it at that stage, he should now confine himself to an explanation of the four admissions which the right hon. hart. conceived him to have made upon a former occasion, and which he relied on as forming a strong argument against the measure. Now he (Sir G. Grey) had never made so large an admission as that the effect of this bill would be a neeeseary diminution of wage.. He had always stated, as explicitly as be could, to deputadons from the working classes, that the tendency of this measure must be to reduce the amount of wages capable of being earned within a given time—that was to say, that they could not earn within ten hours, under this bill, as much as they earned within twelve hours at present. (Hear, hear.) But he had never been blind to the fact, that there were other causes besides the amount of work which, in the course of time, would operate upon the amount of wages, and lessen the effect of the alteration. Since the restriction placed by parliament on the hours of labour there had not beenacorresponding reductionintheamountof wages. (Hear.) He believed that the tendency of this ;measure would be to produce a diminu'ion of wage/ ; he believed, also, that other muses might counteract that tendency; but he thought he would be guilty of a delusion, if he agreed with the hon. member for Shi ffield, that the necessary result of it would be to deprive the people of their daily bread. With regard to his attributing the success of the last measure to the con currence of the majority of the muter manufacturers, be, in one sense, admitted it. But he said also, that from that measure, previous to its timing, the master manufacturers had anticipated the worst restate ; but that, much to their honour, and contrary to their oonvictioae, when it became law, they assisted in carrying it out. (Hear, hear.) Their predictions of the present measure were the same as before ; but he did not think so badly of them as to believe, that if the bill before the house should become the law of the land, they would oppose its operation, or refuse to it the same con currence which they had accorded to the former bill. Neither had he made so large an admission as that there was nothing prejudicial to health in factory labour. He could not help feeling that young females from 12 to 18 years of age, and after that with families, who worked in a factory for 12 hours a day, most thereby be doing what was prejudicial to their health ; but what he had stated was, that the infareace drawn by the member for Oldham from the report of the Registrar- General, to the effect that factory labour was a great cause of mortality in large towns, was not a correct inference. For instance, mortality was greater in Liverpool than in Man chester; and what he said was, that he could not concur in the large inference drawn from the report of the Registrar General, as it was founded upon a comparison between towns and agricultural districts, and not between factory labour and other species of employments in towns. The right honourable baronet also said that he (Sir G. Grey) had alleged that a ten hours bill was fraught with danger, and that he would not go beyond eleven hours. He had certainly observed that considering the magnitude of the interests concerned, and the excitement which pre vailed on the subject, he thought it would be desirable to proceed with caution, and that he should therefore prefer an eleven to a ten-hours bill. But he had never said that a ten-hours bill was fraught with danger, and although in the present instance he should vote against the ten-hours clause and for the eleven, yet if a majority of the house should decide in committee that the bill should be a ten-hours bill, he would cordially vote for the third reading. (Hear.) Lord J. MANNERS explained that he had used the metaphor, alluded to by the right hon. baronet, in quoting some well-known lines from Shaltspeare, and in this some, that as they might break in a young home and apply a curb to his mouth without destroying his natural power, so ought they to support this measure, as putting • salutary curb on the excesses of the manufacturer. (Hear, bear.) Lord MORPETH freely admitted that be had not come to a decision on this subject without considerable migivinga Indeed he envied those who could make up their minds to a decided course with perfect security and with comfort to themselves. To the desirableness of limiting the hours of labour he assented, but he thought that any practical scheme, having that object, must be attended with a cer tain degree of risk and uncertainty, and ought in its application to be gradual, c iutioua, and experimental. He knew that that opinion would subject him to the taunt of ' advocating half measures, and being ready to enter into a compromise; but be, nevertheless, believed that it con- • ei much good sense. He 'would, therefore., rote for try would be injured. He (Mr. Gibeort), being unconvinced ° 1 g Ding into a committee, sad for the stunt 'noun chime ; by arguments for any limitation on. the authority of those lan ' t tithe bill should emerge from the committee contain- 'who were so divided as to bow far that limitation should go, Mg a further limitatiOn to ten boort he could not join in the- was not encouraged to _vote :or this measure. . His hon. I confidence of his right hoe. (Mews by pledging himself to friend - the member for Firebury said he would not vote ' support it. (" Hear," and lan,ghter.) To the limitation to tor it if he thought tt would reduce wages 25 per eleven hours he was prepared to resent, because as far see he cent. ; but no one had undertaken to show that such was personally coneorned, 'se thought that a matter of good was not t h e cue. Common sense would show that if b y law faith was involved in the gneation, for he had stated at nisi- extensive machiinei'y was made to stand still, and the ous Units and places, whether wisely or not, that if ever operatives lost one day in the week, there must be a loss parliament conseno.all to an elterat'on of those laws which somewhere, an:i that it must fall on the operatives. For enhanced the price of food and restricted the free iznpor- were they nut told that capital was stronger than the opera tation of foreign corn, he should concur in the view of tive, and that the Factory Bill was intended to guard him reducing the hours of labour for the working classes of from the tyranny of capital, and would it nut have the power this country. In the course he was pursuing be was fortified of imposing this loss upon him ? When it was found that by the opinion of Mr. J. Marshall, of L reds, than whom he floods of Irish labourers were pouring in to compete with was sure be could not quote a higher authority, whether the English for employment, and that there were numbers they looked to the extent of his operations, the length of his who were ready to labour for a mere subsistence, could it be experience, or the indefatigable seal with which he en- doubted that this bill would cast the low on the working deavoured to promote the moral and physical improvement classes. His noble friend the member for Finsbury ought of the people. Mr. Marshall, writing upon the sub- not to have been so easily satisfied that wages would net be jest, said : reduced 25 per cent. Another hon. member said he was It may be of some interest to you to know the further remit of prepared to reduce wages, because the leisure gained would our wrieng 11 hours time. We find that OUT weekly production be worth it all in moral and intellectual improve dsdieg the latter nine months of 1846, working 66 hours per week, mint. But no means had been provided for that, . o 'a only about one-half per cent. lees than the weekly produce dur ia g and all that was done was to turn the labourer the corresponding period of 184 S, when we were worki n g al hours ou t o f tb mills, and let him take hie chance of it. per week. Ile must remind the hon. member for Knaresborough that labour, whereas, the reduction in the amount of produce This amounted to a redaction of 3 per cent. on the hours of he hen pointed out a course which he said would be • more satisfactory settlement of this matter than proceeding with g amounted to only one-half per cent. Now one instance of parliamentary enactments, and he also was of • different practical likeworkin that seemed to outweigh the gratui opinion as to the state of things se regarded this measure and the working classes from others who supported it. It hi toul h asse au rt w io e n h a t w eh hi t. ch n w y e : re made on the other side. Mr. was said by some hon. members that the working classes Ourerrample has not yet, I believe, been followed by more thee else could not settle this question with their masters, but that it must be done by legislation ; but the hon. member for ti mpamk. in " Lessia .9" it c.: 47 e your k i or s g.ay d. ll bours s liii ed : in li b l r y t t vo 'lnd l tn ue .afti ttsy Ths egreesemat P="g imiy aid . Knaresboreugh said that it was immaterial whether this bill I can warmly myths' I am eeflicieutll 5 .1 . " IlLezilla_.___that_ ll was paned or not, for that the operatives were determined holm time is likeiyr within any short p eriod, 2 r,,,,.....•......,.2,..„./ to work only ten hours, and they would take care to obtain adopted aniTe". ll7, " without ""' exce P u "' ''''' ''''''' ...... that benefit themselves by combination. These differences all such eases of interference by legislative enactment with what ought of opinion did not encourage him (Mr. Gibson) to legislate on this subject. Another mode by which preede w b"he an p d ri" p4. -Ta re .7:Lug; ti for of th indi e colr ' we'm pu et i urre e "in ot i Th ' e °ugb eariela- tt° tare. I 'meld stal l, therefore, ink foe further time, and deprecate any gentlemen advocated this measure was by bringing forward immediate legislative change. statements which had nothing to do with it. Time spoke The right hon. gentleman (Sir J. Graham), with no want of of the mortality of infants in the manufacturing chstriets, , sympathy for the working classes, mid that to cat, drink, and stated that it was caused by the absence of their mothers work, and die, was tho general lot of the labouring classes from them. It was, no doubt, appalling, as was stated by throughout the world. He (Lord Morpeth) felt that there the noble lord the member for Newark, that 50 per cent. of ' was too mush truth in the statement, and that it would be • the infant population should die before the ages of three or , film and sickly kind of sympathy which could prevent any five years. But could the absence of the mothers for thin , government from making the first two, eating and drinking, teen hours—which they would be under an eleven hours a primary consideration when dealing with the working bill—make any difference in the case of infants?--must they amm. At the same time, he should gladly embrace any not hire some one to take charge of them ? They were now =aniqi of counteracting that exclusively animal ten- absent fourteen hour , but whither it was thirteen or twelve ( Rear, hear.) He, therefore, fully concurred in the hours (which it would be under the ten hours bill) the in ' view that factory labourers ought to be discharged from flints must be placed under the care of some one. . work at &sufficiently early hour to enable them to do some- But was infant mortality necesuily connected with thing for the improvement of their minds. He believed factory labour ? The mortality in Bethnal-green, where they would not object to begin their labours at half-past five, the manufactories were domestic, and the mothers which, allowing an hour and a-half for meals, would, on the at home. was sixty per cent. In the Sanatery Report, it was stated that children placed in factories were more healthy eleven hour system, est them free at six o'clock. That was the hour at which other persons confined in work and count- than in their own cottages. Upon this argument, if it was hag houses were liberated, and if the factory labourers could wished to prolong the life of infants, it would be better to leave oaf at the same hour, they would have time for visiting follow the suggestion of the noble lord the member for Ply , meeitudee' institutions' mailing rooms. They need not flatter mouth, and exclude women from the bill. This was another themselves that they would at once resort to those places ; instance of difference of opinion. It was stated that there was a great consumption of opium in the manufacturing die , but he was glad to think that there was a growing tendencyao dole among the working climes ; and he thought that house trims. Would working two hours a day less prevent this ? ' was bound to promote that tendency by every means in its If the object was to prevent the use of opium, why not have power. (Hear, hear.) In adopting the eleven hours bill, included it in the bill ? Was not opium eaten in the agricul he felt that he was giving to the labourers in factories an op- tural districts, too ? The state of morels in those districts portunity of havingmore domestic pleasure, more social en- had been spoken of, and the hon. member for Knaresborough joyment, and moreintellectual improvement than they had said that the operatives spent their Saturday afternoons and at present, with the least possible diminution in their daily Sundays in boozing and drinking. But what did this bill dote subsistence. (Hear, hear.) prevent that? That question remained where it was. He Lord G. BENTINCK said that the question before them complained, therefore, that these were irrelevant arguments amounted practically to this—whether or nut women and which had been dragged into the discussion, while they were young persons under eighteen years of age should henceforth entirely without the scope of the measure. Mr. Alison be obliged to work more than ten hours per day. The right had 'aid that he was in favour of this bill on the ground bon. gentleman the member for Dorchester, after the course that it would diminish wages, and so deprive the working which he had pursued last year, had rather surprised him people of the means of intemperance. The hon. number for by the appeal which he made to the justice of the house on Weymouth had spoken of men seen walking in the parks at the present occasion, not to break in upon the vested rights of Manchester with their backs strained and otherwise suffer the manufacturers by supportingthe present messure.(Hear.) tug from the effects of factory labour, but be fell short when They had heard nothing last year about the vested eighth of he came to this mewl re, for be did not include men in this the agriculturista,or of tenants and their longlesses. (Cheers.) bill, which was to limit the hones of labour. Even if the Hon. members spoke of the falling ofl of their exports, and manufacturers could dispense with the labour of women argued from thence that this was not the time to introduce and children these evils as regarded men would a measure of this kind; but the fact was that foreign remain, therefore, in limiting the hours of labour, nations, with a degree of policy which this country might they ought to be included in the measure. It I well copy, were protecting their home manufacturers ; and had been said that taking experience as a guide, they their policy was strikingly apparent in this, that while the i might go on in this course, because they had legislated cotton exports of Britain heal decreased, the exports in our before, and no harm was done, and the prophecies which machinery had increased 25 per cent., showing, that while , had been made had not been fulfilled. Was this true? One foreign nations were taking our semi-manufactured of the factory inepeotors had stated that legislation had goods with one hand, they were taking with the other placed children in ficotlan,l in a worse moral position than machinery for the manufacture of pole hitherto mann- they were before. They had been excluded from the mill., factored in this country. (Hear, hear.) The secretary to and were now running about the streets in Glasgow : there the admiralty argued that the house was not entitled to were no schools, and none bad been built as the result of ask for a restriction on the hours of labour in manufactories, that bill. He contended that past legislation had nothing to until the free trade measures of last year were in full opera- do with the measure before the house. They had legislated lion. He should like to know from the right hon. gentle- for children under 13 years, and the statement of the hon. man when he thought that period would arrive. The hon. I member for Ballard, made on some clerical authority, and an gentlem who opened the debate asked if they were to stop the facts of which he said he did not believe—(hear and at ten hours, and argued that they would not, because Mr. laughter)—referred to children of that age, which was not Outlet had at some period advocated eight hours. The the case now before the house, but that of adults. simple answer was that ten hours was the period most con- It was not known what would have been the state of the intent with human strength, health, and domestic comfort, factories, even if that bill had not passed ; nor had they any If the operatives asked for a shorter period than ten ban, right to attribute the improvement in the habits of the then would be the time to make a stand against it. The people, as regarded drunkenness and other vices, to it. Had hon. gentleman also asked if, in the present sear- there not been en improvement in the habits of all classes ? city and high price of provisions, they would deprive ani much was to be attributed to the example afforded by the working clashes of the opportunity, by their industry, the improvement in those respects of the higher. The fle d obtaining an amount of wages sufficient to supply them tory inspectors were not unanimous in their opinion of the with food. Now, unless the hon. member could say that effects of peat legislation, or of the proposal now before mill-owners were offering operatives work for full time at the house. His nicht hon, friend the Secretary for the Home full wages, there was no value whatever in his argument; De p artment had said that where they were unanimous, and that he could not do, for they had been told on sutho- their authority should have great weight, because they were rity that the greater portion of mills throughout the country disinterested. But they were not unanimous. Mr. ware working short hours. The hon. member argued a Stewart was against this bill, and he also doubted degree of ruin to the manufacturers from these interferenoes; as to the effect of past legislation. A circumstance, hut although this ruin had been often threatened, it had not illustrative of that measure, had occurred in the city of yet arrived ; and they had already reduced the hours of London the other day. Some women were taken to a police mfant labour from 89 and 90 hours to 66 and 70 hours per office who had been employed by a Mr. Plummer in wind week. The hon. gentleman had referred to the evidence ing cotton into balls after half-past eight in the evening. The of six operatives and some clergymen in favour of unre- offence was not working for so many hours a day, but for stricted hours of labour : the last he quoted containing the working after half-past eight. Could there be any more admission that those children who worked full time in facto- innocent occupation than rolling cotton into balls ?—and ties did not look so well': but he met the admission by say- yet, when other women were allowed to walk about the ing that hon. members of that house did not look ea well at streets all night as prostitutes and assemble in gia-shops, these the end of the session as at the beginning. As far as the were brought before the police-magistrates for rolling cotton hon. member for Winchester himself was concerned, he into bells after half-past eight in the evening. What ad (Lord H. Dentinal could see no difference, and thought him vantage to society, present or remote, could this produce ? aspale at the commencement of the session s& at the end • but There was no steam-engine, and these women did it to if there were any validity in the argument, it proved that maintain their families at an hour which suited their own they should shorten the hours of labour,and allow those em- convenience, which was after half-past eight in the evening, in factories more time for recreation and exercise in and the law said that this was as offence . against the La% air. h T o o f the t ohm generous , eniearr ovum-hearted , foerclheanhd.dnhoelaZti sou u oral t s . of . E.iritnetploNyVehratopttierd.anwdomtwehaddritdir that tyran t i l l! . 474V16 On that account, and seeing also that of 260,000 effect was to deprive them of the means by which they paid 230.000 had petitioned that house for a restriction their rent. This was a sample of past factory legislation. ha dr bops of labour, he would give his support to the That past legislation did not, in fact, interfere with the meta forgoing into committee. hours of work, but merely gave the sanction of law to that M. M. GIBSON said that the noble lord had not con- which was already custom ; for the great bulk of the mills Ilea himself to the question before the house; but, by his worked no more than 12 hours. Even if that were not so, sautrks, had allowed it to be seen that in supporting this legislation of a kind which effected children under 13 yews linewre he was influenced, through a spirit of revenge by ot age could not be quoted as • safe guide for legislation of a dm conaideration that it would interfere with the vested totally different description. It was said that it was not to inegemita of the manufacturers; as those of the agriculturists had go further than as related to factories. He maintained that burn interfered with by the measures of that house last year. all the working people had a right to demand equal favour He wished to discuss this question on its own merits, and and protection, and if it was right to grant a limitation of none could be more important. The right hon. gentleman, the hours of work in factories, it was the duty of parliament 1 the member for Dorchester, had eo ably shown the extent to extend the same indulgence to other dames of operatives. to which most important interests would he interfered with If it was a benefit to the cotton manufacturing by this bill, that be would not go over the ground, but districts, why stop there ? Could they refuse to would only add that the cotton manufacture was more other operatives what they said was such a boon? I injured by it than other staple manufactures of the country, It was confined to the cotton-spinners, and there while it formed the largest portion of its export trade. The was no sign of going further. Why not bestow such favours hon. member for Leeds said that many manufacturers were mere generally ? In Doreetahire, which was the head in fay.:ur of this bill, but to that there was an easy answer. quarters of some of those who ;tood up for this act of Was it not true that, in Yorkshire, manufacturers in wool humanity, there was great distress ; but no effort was made now worked their mills 11 and 14 hours a day ? There to bring in a bill to raise the wages of the labourer there, was, therefore, no reason why they should oppose this bill. or to alter the conditions on which he gave his services. He I The Factory Commissioners stated that the opinions of the (Mr. Gibson) might say it was desirable that the Dorset manufacturers as to the limitation of the hours of labour shire tirmer should give them more than seven or eight were regulated by the exact time which they worked their shillings, and that a law should be passed, compelling them own mills. He (Mr. Gibson) placed no value on to give ten shillings on the same principle that it was said the agreement that certain manufacturen whose trades that factory labourers should not work more than ten hours. and names were not mentioned, agr eed to this He dared to say that plausible arguments might be adduced, measure. Hs maintained that the great body of cotton to show that it would not affect the prospects of the firmer manufacturers did not acquiesce in it, and the house, ill- or ruin him. One gentleman might say give three sh informed, as he believed, on its commercial effects, were another might say only two shillings and a third about to force it on that trade; and it they thought that any one shilling might be safer. If there was any 1 cotton manufacturers were in favour of it they would act right to interfere for the factory, there was • under a delusion and • mistake. The noble lord the member right to do so for the agricultural labourer. It was envier for Lynn said that the repeal of the corn-laws was an inter- rentable that all their sympathies should be expended on ference with vested interests, and that the right hon. the labourer in the cotton trade, and that they Should not baronet (Sir J. Graham) was not last year so sensitive en see with an impartial eye the distress in other districts. In that point. But the corn-law was a restraint upon the the hospitals the day nurses worked sixteen hours, and industry and trade of the country ; and those who sup- the night nurses eleven. This was an excellent field for ported it having failed to prove that it was advantageous to legislation. They worked longer than labourers in the tee the community, it was therefore removed by the legislature. tones, and in a worse atmosphere; were exposed to un- He said that the onus probers& rented on those who pro- healthy vapours, and their labour was exoeasive. Now that posed this restraint en the labour of the country, and it was , the cause of the distressed needlewomen was given up, he for them to show that it would be advantageous to the could suggest to the noble lord the member for Newark, persons for whose benefit it was intended, as well as to the the ease of the washerwomen. (" Hear," and laughter.) community. They who were opposed to the measure were Tbey were bound by every principle of justice and not bound mathematically to demonstrate the amount humanity, if this was sound legislation, to extend it to every of wages which would be lost. He maintained that every elan who suffered from long hours of labour. It had been restraint on labour was an evil ; and until the ad- intended to legislate for the needlewomen, and the noble vantage of this restraint was pointed out, it was lard (the member for Newark) had in hie pocket a unjustifiable to enact it by law. He maintained that it was bill for the fustian-cutters, who worked in their own not shown that the restraint on the labour of women and houses. Now the washerwomen stood a greater number of children was advantageous to them or to the community. hours than any other adult working people, and he was in- Would that compulsory leisure which was proposed, be ae- formed by a medical man that they formed a great proportion cessarily employed more to the moral and physical advan- of the out-door patieats of the hospitals, being &Meted with tags of the labourers than the time employed in factories? varicose veins and ulcerated logs. Would these cases be Compulsory leisure was given by this bill ' • but there it included in their legislation ? He (Mr. Gibson) would not stopped ; and it did not enter into the question of the manner vote for the extension of the principle either to these classes in which that time was to be spent. In the case of children or to the labourer in cotton factories because he believed it it was done ,• for, when it was said that they should only work to be fraught with evil. It was re& legislation to 1131LiCi• six hours a day, the remainder was to be occupied in educe- pate the improvements which society would bring about. Lion ; then it was only declared:that adult females should not In • commercial point of view he was convinced that no on. work in certain mills and receive certain earnings • and there could show that the effect of these measures would not it stopped. It was indisperumble that these thing s be be to deprive the operatives of a large amount of the shown before parliament, so as to induce it to put this re- wages they now enjoy. It was a great anomaly that they straiat on labour. He declined positively to share in the were trying to provide employment for the people in responsibility of this act; and, when he looked to the else Ireland, while they were at the same time trying to cut it eumstances under which gentlemen invited him to off. In Ireland there were 20,000 factory labourers, earning limit the hours of labour, and looked to their own 10s. a week, and if their wages were cut down one-sixth it authority, there was nothing to encourage him to accede to would cause • reduction of 58,0001. a-year to these persons. the proposition. If the number of hours was limited to six In Scotland, where great distress existed, 70,000 persons or four, it was admitted that the cotton trade would be en- were so employed, whose wages it was proposed to cut down. tirely destroyed. It was admitted that there was some Was that consistent with the other policy which was directed point at which that would happen ; but it was not agreed to provide food and employment for those who had neither ? what that was. The hon. member for Oldham said he If this reduction of wages took place there would be with would make the number eight, and no harm would be done; drawn from the labourers of Scotland and Ireland 430,0001. to withdraw 88 fr0 ,000 ,. thl..acyrfrlirroelianre Ireland and dopes.ratiuLesd togethera Irelandsi the firs t 430,0001. the that wages would be the same ; and the prosperity of the a year. It staggered him when he was asked by those who said trade remain. Some said it must be ten hours ; and by they were embarked in the cause of humanit th thot o he ig erstThd h i t t th ewam e w n mao u al m id be ntain r b ih: ll :l tha d uli be a.ni el eusA ev n en oitht an ewPag 'd a mal h o al reed f, a an cta t ti r m it : He was also asked to withdraw from the operatives fir' of Lan was lower than that, the staple manufacture of the coon- esehire 1,000,0001. a year, in order to better their condition. He could not understand this as the first step towards their amelioration. The noble lord, the member for Lynn, had said it would be for the benefit of Ireland if money was sir. eulated among the people as wages, and now he called en the house to withdraw it, and, by a strange anomaly, E, land was to be regenerated by cutting off employment, wete Ireland was to be regenerated by giving it. In Ireland tea people had leisure, there was no tyrant capital, no export lode, the people were living in that pastoral simplicity which had been talked of by the advocate* of short hours of labour. Was this leisure, was the absence of the tyrant capital, or the demon steam-engine, of which the hon. mem. 1 her for Weymouth had spoken, an advantage to the Irish people ? (lieu' ' hear.) Ile would have the home pang when they were called on to interfere with a large class of working people in a position of comparative comfort, and before they made hazardous experiments with the staple manufactures of the country. The great cotton-Made of this country was rapid in its rise, and its fall might be equally speedy. A great machine might be disturbed by the duitrum non of a very small wheel, and how did they know bat that by cutting off two hours a week from the labour of the far. tones, and making the time only five days a week they would not cause the destruction of the cotton-trade to be as speedy as was its taking root. They offered no security against this; there was only vague conjecture, nothing on which • reuenable man could rest on safely to convince him that they were not shaking the foundations of the great staple manufactures ot the country ; and considering that the export trade of thi s country was its great mainstay, and considering also that it was embodied in the labour of the country, he called on the house to refuse to diminish one of its great elements—tine, They saw in Ireland the consequence of the people being without employmmt, and they should not proceed to take away the employment of millions of operatives in their own LZEBRINGTON said, at this period of the debate, it was not his intention to trespass at any length upon the attention of the house. In mach of the able discourse d his right hon. friend who had just sat down, be (Lord Ebrington) concurred. His right hon. friend had ex. ernplitied the mischiefs which he (Lord Ebrington) had endeavoured on a former occasion to shew when he atteme, tad to persuade the legislature not to interfere with adult labour. This interference he held to bra new and mischlevone principle in legislation. It seemed to him that all legislative interference sth.er children had attained an age that fitted them to make bargains for themselves, was most pernicious, The whole question depended upon a due con. aideratinn of the general well being of the people, and he thought many hon, members had permitted them. selves to take much too narrow • view of the subject, when they left entirely out of their consideration the health of those employed in factories. From the observation he had himself made in the factories, he was convinced that the at. moephere breathed in them rendered eight hours' labour there far more mischievous in effects on the health of the people employed than twelve hones' labour performed in well ventilated mills would produoc. He, therefore, hoped at some future stage to be allows d to engraft on the bill a provision to enable the factory inspectors to report on the state of health of the labourers employed in factories, and to give them the same powers with reference to ventilation and drainage, the improper regulation of which led to aim, deaths, as they now possessed in respect to unguarded machinery, formerly the cause of so many sudden deaths. The evidence of Dr. Guy, before the Health of Towns Commission, showed that the labourers in factories were not sufficiently supplied with light and air, sad this was a subject deserting quite se much consideration as the number of hoses during which those labourers were to remain at work. lie would suggest that in future all the factory inspectors ought to be medial men, by which means the public mind would be relieved from many delusions as to the real causes of ill health among the operatives. Sir It. PEEL said ho had abstained from rising before because he thought it probable that some hon. gentleman who was a decided advocate for the bill now under onside. ration would have presented himself to reply to the speech just now delivered by the right hon. gentleman, the Vice. President of the Board of Trade. He (Sir It. Peel) bad, however, waited in vain, and as time was now pressing, he should keep within the compass of time for which the house could this day sit. He was not prompted to rise by any. thing which had occurred in the present debate, but having, when at the head of the government, been supported by a large majority in the opinion he had then given against any further interference with the hours of labour, he was de. arms, now that he was likely to be in • s mall minority, having against him the high opinion of the noble lord op. poets (land J. Russell), to record, under adverse chem. stances, hie continued adherence to the principles he had before stated. (Hear, hear.) He was aware that it some. times excited a smile amongst hon. members, when he (Sir It. Peel), occupying the position of first minister of the Mira, had said, in reference to any question of difficulty, that the government had but one of three courses to take. (Hear, and a laugh.) It seemed, however, that the noble lord who had stmeeeded him in office, had also succeeded hint in that respect. (Laughter.) Nay, the noble lord could go further, and say not merely that there were three COLITIS in this instance to pursue, but be might adduce, in favour of each separate course, the authority of as many collesgaes of his own in the cabinet. On the left-hand of the noble led at the right Son. gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Labonchere), who, as fully conversant as any man with the commercial interests of the country, bad declared himself against extension of the interference with the hours of labour. There was she near the noble lord the right hon. baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Sir George Grey), who was in favour of going into com mittee on this bill, and who, if the committee should succeed in inserting ten instead of eleven hours, was willing to accept the bill in that shape on its third reading. Now it was difficult to decide between two such high authorities ; hut the noble lord at the head of the govern ment had a third proposition to deal with, beeauae the noble lord the chief Commissioner of Wools and Foiesta (Lord Merpeth), now at the noble lord's right hand, had declared that din committee ten hours were substituted for eleven hours, he must abandon his colleague the Home Secretary, and vote against the bill. (Load laughter.) There was a famous mathematical problem most difficult to solve. The problem was, what is the point at which a body will remain at rest which is exposed to the attraction of three other great bodies ? Mathematically, the problem was difficult of solo tion ; but, probably, the noble lord at the head of the govern. meat would be able to solve it practically, if not theoretically, and would determine whether, on being exposed to the attrao Lien of the three great authorities or bodiesnow revolving in hie immediate neighbourhood, he will remain at rest, or decide in favour of one or other of his colleagues who were now asst him. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Before he (Sir It. Peel) proceeded to the question immediately before the house, he wished to say a word with respect to a matter unconnected with it, bat which had been introduced into the present dis cussion. The noble lord the member for Lynn (Lord G. Bentinek) had asnumed that the result of experience with reference to the relaxation of restrictions on commerce, sad the reduction of duties on articles of necessity, showed the inthelicy of that course of legislation; and the noble lord bad referred, in proof of his &roman ? to the diminished exports of the present, as compared with the exports of last year. Now his (Sir Robert Peel's) firm conviction was, that ell intervening experience since the adoption of that course of policy which the noble lard condemned tended to demonstrate its justice ; and be (Sir R. Peel) was not only fortified-by ream, but confirmed by experience of the effects produced since that course of policy had been commenced, in the opinions he had asserted. (Hear, hear.) It was quite true that this year there was a Ihminished amount of exports; but if increasing 'spore I were to be taken as a test of the wisdom of the policy ear sated, he mustask the noble lord to look back to the yser 1842, when the policy of width he complained was cote menced. In 1842 the legislature altered the eorn•laws; I they removed the duties on the importation of foreign bed ; and mutton, as well as on many articles white were the elements of manufactures. In abort, is 1842, they commenced a system which continued until (he would not say terminated with) the end of the het erasion of parliament. (Hear, hear.) It appeared that is 1842 the declared value of exports was 47,841,0001. ; in 1843, ender a system of the removal of prohibitory duties es du ?donation of restrictions, the declared value of mars mounted to 52,270,0001. ; in 1844 to 58,554,0001. • ad is 1845 the declared value of exports was 60,180A1. Ths experts in 1846 were, no doubt, less than they had ben is the preview year; but all periods of the commercial biles/ of the country showed that vicissitudes in commerce ad ensue, and that commercial excitement had always Ms followed by commercial depression. Thus, in 1836, bake any relaxation of the system of protection took place, its declared value of exports was about 53,000,800 1 _ • in 1837 it fell to 42,000,0001. ; in 1839 it was again about 53009 00 1 1 • 1 in 1841, 51,000,0001. ; and in 1842 it was 47,0 0 .0 w. Therefore it could not fail to be observed that, clangs's! period when protection and prohibition were 111 falter M M had been constant fluctuations and vicissitude' in comma d an ep d re th w e o e n x i c a ite th m e e n n e t . p t rod ß u u ced t if i i n n o i n w e ear th, w nd as f .c ci ti ll o o:ild o hy s amount of the chief articles of export amoanted 2,000,0001., that reduction arose from peculiaL . novel circumstances, and he (Sir R. Peel) Z to ask what had been the concomitants —what h ad the other effects—which warranted an impression that theme laxation of the system of prohibition and protection failed? (Rear, bear.) Had there not, during the liar'''. been high prices for provisions, cot only in this country, Do t almost in every other portion of Europe,—and was there cot reason to believe that those higli prices of provisions had the effect of curtailing the expenditure in superfluous lantana of the incomes which were necessary for the purchase of th , , primary articles of subsistence ? Did not that fac t, cos t r, with the high prices of the raw material for the chief mane: henry of the country, account for the diminution which bu taken place in the exports of 1846 as u compar; with the exports of 1845? (Hear , hear.) Bat mild the node lord the member for Lynn (herd • Beseech) show at any former period, under similar circs; stsaces, a buoyant revenue,— a feeling of oontentinentand 'Mat embodied= to the law, and of resignation, as . , Sethi matey ? Could he show, at any former period . 01 sammendel adversity, such a feeling to have existed Year as —4 be =all darn in this country during the past aerated by the conv i c tion that legislative f . was not responsible for the state of things which nano 11 the 81 (B ut er s. ,.. ws h eh ear of . e ) 114u B 2 4t e.( w a h sam at : w h • c o a u ivr ld .o)w th dtvh e b n ey o . bl hath e ne l m orl hataa ba d vae dose nt bees Imported during the present year Ism than b ',reign corn ; and yet the average price of your own cote MI not been less than 71s. /low could Ireland have been benedted . if the law which excluded Indian corn, and which t tized high duty on all other description!' of that commodiy, hhd been adhered to ? (Hear, hear.) He (Sir R. e P s ovr,: a ., that he The Italian writers on that science—teen of u dosbt•M_ e iwt tn ewr t oc h uto e ld question really before the house. 11 cusu too narrow a view of the subject of political ecoemei. ability — had argu e be hug a e n ed ir o th e w w th an e o d s f trie i s m t e g n i r ies ec d t o w f vi po i c a w liti o hi l eal: h i f eOne .g . :7 ' had claimed for themselves the prive . 1 11 ' 1 4 am".