The Express. — London, England, 1852-12-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAY, DEC. 10. The LUKE) CHANCILLOR wok bi% seat at Sire o'clock. PETITIONS PRESENTF.D. Anatee Mast Dnireese.-137 the Duke of RICH MOND, front the farmers of Elgin, in Scotland, complain big of distress, and praying for relief, more especially in cheapening and increa-ing the supply of guano. Meen &stet' ISSTITU ft:l.—By the Marquis of BREAD' ALBAN K ind the Earl of Sr. tamt MAN S, from mecha nics' institutes, praying for a free distribution of path°. =eatery papera. Tits Cars or Gum) Hors.—By the Duke of RICH MOND, from an initieidual who had served as en officer fur 62 years in the British army, and gained the esteem of all his commanding officers, and who had been induced to sell out and settle at the Cape. Ile tonic a farm, and woe going on very well; be hid a great quantity of stock, and was a thriving farmer, when the war broke out, in cousequeuce of which, and the treacheiy ul hie Hottentot servants, all his rattle and horse' had been stolen from him by the Rallies; and he and his son, having barely moped with their lives, were obliged now to work in the field+ for their daily bread. It was a very hard ea.., end he thought be fore the government recommended officers in the army to settle in the colouies, they should see that they could pro tect them against the inroads of savages. lie would advise old otticen to stick to the army. The Earl of DESART felt great commisieration for the nee. It was true that the gentleman in question bad been in the army for 50 years. Ho sold out in ISIS, and availing himself ufeerein indulgences given by the government he invested upwards of 4.0U0/. in the purchase of land, &e. It was true that all his tattle hail been taken from him, and he and his son had been reduced to the melancholy position which his sable Tr end had described. But it must be re membered that he hail placed himself ins the position of a 1 . colonist, and it hal always been a state principle that it was impotsable for the government to give compensation fur such hoses. In lad; there were two similar cases, and the government th-n decided that they could not give compels sabot,. The exception could nut be made in the present instance, with.ut compensation being given in every such ease. TILE LAW OF LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND). The Earl of RODEN wished to put • question to the east at the lie of of her Majesty's government upon • sub ject which he thought of the utmost importance, not only to that part of the empire to which it particularly referred. hut to the country at large. Ile had to ask the pardon of his noble friend for introducing a question of which he hail not given the usual notice, but the matter to which that question 'cloned was one of the greatest importance. As it was then Friday. he mould not have an opportunity of referring to the subject and obtaining an answer until Mon day twat, and he thought the time which would elapse would cause guest society in the minds of many to whom the subject referred. On re (erring' to the reports of the other house of parliament, and to those channels of information which their lordships possessed con cerning the proceemags of that house, he confe.scd he was extremely surprised and alarmed to find that, on the iatro.uetion of ',ruin bills conuected with the landlord and tenant arrangements in Ireland, there was, ionongot the bills presented to the house, one, which is well known by the name of Mr. Sharman Crawford's Landlord and Tenant Bill. He begged to remind their lordships that this bill had been twice, at least, brought under the consideration of the House of Commons, and twice received the almost unanimous rejection of that house. (Hese, hear.) It had been conceded by all parties—not only by gen tlemen on one side of the house, but upon the other—that it was • measure of a kind which was calculated to overthow the very basis and founds. tions of property in any country. He was sere there was no individual in their lordships house who would ever sanction such a proposition, and he had, therefore, no fear that this bill would ever become law at any period. But he was ILIIZiOuS to put a question on • subject which agitated the minds of all persons possessing property in Ireland, and which, if unexplained, was calculated to give a great triumph to those who, having no property them selves, wished t s destroy that belonging to others. The subject to which he alluded was this; on a certain night, he believed the night before last, this measure was intro duced with others to the consideration of the House of Commons, and it was proposed that all of these measures, the bill to which he referred forming one of them, should be read a second time. The proposer of that motion was one of her Majesty's ministers—a colleague of his noble friend (the E4rl of Derby). He would not attempt to times what must have been the feelings of all men of property when they found that her Majesty's ministers had sanctioned a proposition which had twice been rejected as one impossible fur parliament to assent to with justice. The question, then, which he begged to put to bin noble friend Wit—whether the proceed ings which had been taken in the other house of parlia ment, in reference to this measure,were taken with his sane lion and whether, if then proceedings had his (the Earl of Derby's) sanction, the bill was one proper to be adopted, and one to which her Majesty's government would give their support, in order to carry it through parliament, that it might become law ? The Hart of DERBY had no difficulty whatever in an. veering the question which his noble friend had put te hint, because his attention had been called to the matter yesterday or the day before by some of the representatives of Ireland, who shared in the apprehensions which his noble (dead entertained, in consequence of what took place in the House of Commons. la order to make the matter intelligible, be begged to be permitted to explain what really passed. It was in the knowledge of his noble friend and of most of the laseethele et their lordships' house, that the attention a the Irish government, and more especially of the Attorney- G 1 for Ireland (of whom, in passing, he would say that no government had ever had the advantage of the ser vices of a more zealous, a more able, or a more efficient officer than that hon. gentleman), had been incessantly di rected, sines the accession of her Majesty's government to office, to the best means of developing the resources of Ire laud, of increasing the application of capital to the land, and of improving the relation subsisting between landlord and tenant. However difficult and delicate • portion of the subject this last might be, he assured their lordships there was no subject which more deserved the attention of those who were anxious to see the landed property of Ire land recovering from the depressed state in which it had beta for the last few years. In consequence of the attention which was given to this sethjete, the government, ur more particularly the • General, misted by the Solicitor-General eel the f Secretary for Ireland, prepared what might almastie eas sidered u a code of laws upon the relation between iewilent and tenant, comprised in four separate bilk. bawl sdis. Una objects but all closely acreseted tweet mei beide, upon each other. The first had the *het d tedlleatin the application of capital to land by the Mesa be Idle • the tenant for life being, under atheist desemereeen, authorised to charge as an 'dews trees bbeeeit le the estate his valuation for intprovemetal the wesesi pee facilities under certain eireemstensee. of espitai by the tenant, with the menet of the al =3 adds* to the sepeebitesdeese sad aselest of the Sewed Weeks—the machinery et whit' bed bees ray use hay applied in similar ease he belesd with very great seems ; the third was a met bepeetaat hill for the =of eeeeelistettag sad leeleglag fa* see sietele the J ths law Made, b beilleed and linene•-• week el eery a t dated. end sae lovely*, welghtpmeeklem lrat whisk if aneseedelly reeseirA imi abet, weld feeder dealings with real preperty meek mw ay *la they Were when the law ea this bead wee egesed ewe beedeede of ateletee; the her* hiY we le weft lee Isms wake which Neepearetlea of& be aimed by the essest seines the leedleed la retiree* le errahmeted kaproor sem& There her bills Need der the esesed ia the Hews of Comae*, and he (the Let of Daley) that their lordships would agree that. It they wen to pew at all, or if they were to receive the deo 6101161111t116 et parliament, no time ought to be lost in ebleideg the mead reeding, in order that they might be Wiese* with the least possible delay to the investigation of • conatittee. Ho thought that their lordships, who had 'aperient:* in dealing with questions of this kind, would be of opinion that in order properly to consider and discuss in detail the questions involved in the measures, that they should be referred, not to the committee of the whole house, at least in the first instance, but to • select Commit tee. If these bills had been postponed until after Christ mae, considering that Eater falls very soon next year, sad that, therefore, government would have hate very few dais et its disposal between Christmas and Easter, there would have been considerable difficulty in putting t hese bills be fore the Easter recess; it was, therefore, very desirable at once to bring them before parliament. At the same time there was before the House of Commons a bill brought in by an independent member, a learned gentleman, who had just taken his scat as the representative of oat of the Irish constituencies, • bill in some respects is pert mareri., though founded on different principles to that of the Attorney-General. It was • mason dealing with the same question between landlord and tenant, and was substantially the same as tho one to which his nook friend (the Earl of Roden) had referred, and which was brought forward in a former session by Mr. Sharman Crawford, and rejected, es he (the Earl of Dersy), hoped it always would be rejected, by the Houle of Givuolle. Ile had no difSculty in saying wit% his node friend, that the principle on which that bill was framed was against all the rights of property, and he was of opinion that it could never be passed by the en ittiug or any fettles House of Commons, which should be disposed to m ,intain the rights of property, while at the same this it Was disposed to give every encouragement to irnprovemcnt of the soil. Now as this bill was in pars WWWW with one of the four bills which were introduced by the Attorney General, it was thought it would be diffi cult to obtain the assent of the llowie of Commons to the immediate • rend reading of the four bills the government and their immediate refiesees to a select committee, without givine an opportunity the learned gentleman to Introduce his bill and refer it a 1 ,40 to the some committee for conoideration. It might, therefore, he strictly true that the recoil reading of this lee: named bill was moved by a member of her Majesty's government; but if so, it was spew • distinct and positive declaration mole at the time that the second reading wa merely pro formes, in order that the hill might be referred to the consideration of the select committee, ant that her Majesty's government were so for from sanctioning that bill that they were directly oppse,l to the main principle on which it was founded. If, therefore, any step had been taken to forward this measure, it we, only for the purpose of bringing it in jests position and comparison with the bill of thu Attorney-General, founded on a very different principle. He had no hesitation is saying that, although be thought (certainly he had had no opportunity of being consulted) the course taken by the house THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 11, 1852. (Cheers.) Us would Mker this opportunity of linking the right hon. 'gentleman the Chancellor of the ge t heqwnr whether the second instalment of this Tenn h o p d u ty. which would she payable in November twat (the redoeed duly, supposing tho government scheme to pass, coming Into operatic/ in July), would be elP.rged et gm reduced or the s ems ingsn . te of duty ? one wished to laduce the people to feed on paper or ee soap. (near, hear.) Ilia hon. friend the member for Mattress said from whatever sours* yor, derive the revenue do net take it from the beveragee of the people, and now that they had cheap bread and eheap meat why should they not have eheup beverages also i That opinion was no doubt worthy of the benevolence of his hon. friend, hut the Chancellor of approved of and the government ,he detested. (deer, hear.) A man was not • leathern bsg nor a strong box, but • living being with blool in Ins veins end a been In his bosom, who could apprecia.e • kind intention m well as retaliate under • sense of injury. lie, therefore, asked hon. gentlemen opposite—he was not ehar,ring them with a couseiousnuis of the effect of what Clam of their The CHIFICELLOft of the EXCHEQUER—It is not the Exchequer would not judge solely on the ground they said—not unconsciously to treat a great intended to accord any drawt.ek on the duty chargeable of benevolence, but would only take his ManellrelaS became countrymen as if they were enemies. (Cheers) lion. for the Etyma Yeses geoe.th. (Hear, hear.) a !whined cootwaiist, and it was necessary for him in . gentlemen were, he hoped, not merely political economists ; THE AUSTRaIIAN CONSEITUTION. looking to articles for reduction of taxation to select ttey were alas politicians; they were also statesmen. Sup- Sir W. MOLESWQ RILL after calling attention to the those by maws of which a reproduction of the poomet that all Skirt of t h e h .use agreed in the extreme yaw petition of grievanaes presented last year, asked the Seere- national revenue would Le spatted. Ile lookeet therefore, of the case—supposing that all this agricultural distress of Lary of Btate for the Colonies whether it was the intention to the reduction of the duty on tea as tending to promote I which so much was heard was unreal, and that the lumen of her Hatesta s s government to hike any step s to comply our trade with China, soil whit'', while directly bene fi ting were a peculiar class, who never knew when their pickets with the Peeyer ut the petition which was presented to the the people at large, would indirectly tend to extend the were empty or when they were fun—at least, hon. gentle- House of Commons from the Legislative Council of New trade of Manchester and Liverpool; and they, the comary men would not deny that these farmers believed in this Soath Wales, during the last fusion, by the Secretary fur gentlemen, would rejoice at that. (Cheep.) Let than distress—that, in consequence, they cone and them-elves Ireland ? look to the malt tax, because, although it was not before to be injured, and that that conviction produced dieatfection, Sir J. PAKINOTON reminded the hon. baronet that the house, it was impossible not to perceive from the cheers and that, al a matter of policy, it WAS worth while to get when this important petition was preeected lest session he with which the speech of the hon. member fur Nottingham that impression destroyed. (Cheers.) For abet was this Re. a pledge he would analyse all the allegations con- had been received, and from what had been written on the clew? It was a class of men amongst whom in times of harm!. Ile had redeem. t that pledge ; and the govern- subject, that it was the malt tax and the house tax which were 'Linger and in sealant of war this country had hitherto meta had taken into consideration the very important de- now most prominently before tho people. Let them found that " cheap defence of nations" which consisted in mends made by the petitioners, with an anxious sense of see if the reduction of the malt tax did not rest ancient loyalty and strong lore of c outlay. (Cheers.) flow, the growing importance of our Australian colonies, and of precisely on the name principle as the reduction then, when an offer was made which would content this class the extraordinary circumstances in which thou colonies of the duty on tea. Ile would admit that you would not cheaply, while extending large benefice to the cominunity, were now placed. Her Majesty's government, after giving get so great an advantage by the reduction of half the tax could lona gentlemen rant it ? (Cheers.) But behind all theme the fullest consideration to the prayer of that petition , and se would be Reined by its total repeal—(hese, hear)—and quo...hone there was one question which would force itself the extraordinary circumstances which he had mentioned, that you would still retain the costly and vexatious ma- on the consideration of the house. lie woe the hot person had decided upbn the extent to which conceuions should be chincry of the Excise, and that it would still tend to cripple to impute to loon. gentlemen opposite &single fectious or ure made, and the policy which for the future ought to be the farmer in the use of his capital and the fattening of his worthy motive. Still, however, as they had been Su severe adopted. Ile was sure his hon. friend would see that it cattle; but still it was a step in the right direction. (Hear, on the inconsistency of gentlemen on that (the minien red) was impossible to enter now into any statement of the de- hear.) lie said that so long as revenue was drawn from side of the house, lie might be allowed to ink them, with vision to which the government hod conic; ono which that duty, so long would the farmer be impedell in the all proper respect, whether " principle, indemmili nt of must necessarily be extensive and somewhat corn- exercise of his industry and the use of his capital, and so party," had been precisely the virtue of wheal the y do m- Plicated in its nature. The best answer he could long would the country gentlemen endeavour to obtain for selves had set the example ? They had forced on the pre give was, that her Majesty's government had decided them impartial justice. (Hear, hear.) Ile would say to his sent government the recognition of the permanence of upon the course which they ought to take in reference to hon. friend the member fur the North Riding of free trade ; end the whole gravamen of their attacks ever these colonieg and that after the recess he would take an Yorkshire, and those who agreed with him in the • ivocacy since had been that the government hail made the concussion. opportunity of stating to the house what that course of of a total repeal of the tax, that there would now be at least In fact there was the most unaccountable anger at the policy would be. (Hear, hear.) this advantage, diet by just so much as you diminished the triumph of the frth trade prince dc — ( laughter)—and The motion for the adjournment was then agreed to. tax you lessened the financial difficulty of getting rid of it having invited the government, by the resolution of the Bir 11. 11ALFORD gave notice of a bill to secure the altogether. (Cheers.) Suppose, however, that it was hon. member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiere) to proceed payment of wages without stoppages after the recess. doubted that the proposed reduction would benefit the to measures of further extension of free trade, when roes. TRH FINANCIAL S EATEMENT. farmer, yet no one could deny that it would cheapen the cures in this direction were prepared, accompanied by a The order of the day having keen read for going into price of beer, and no monopoly of the brewers could defeat detect tax so sound in principle that they had riot a single Committee of Ways and Means, the intention of the legislature in the fate of public opinion, political economist to produce against it, they met the Mr. T. :BUNCOMBE rose on the question that the and even if it did. it would unite all parties in a determine- ministry with an opposition, and " restriction upon iii- Speaker do now leave the chair, and said, I feel, sir, that tion to have an alteration in the saran of licensing. Ile re. duatry " was their cry. (Loud cheers.) It was impos. the b ass is placed in rather a peculiar position in refer- membered that the hon. memher for Derby, the great se- sible to ascribe this influence to paltry motives ; and he enc.' to the resolution just made—that you, sir, leave the former of British ale in ISdi, made a motion for the ascribed it only to that honourable ambition which chair for the purpose of our going iuto Committee of Ways revision of tho malt tax, and he then rested induced hon. gentlemen to wish to substitute a government snit Means, to entertain the preposition of the Chancellor his case on the argument that the reduction composed of men they preferred fur the gnvernineut whoa, : of the Exchequer—that is his budget (Hear.) I also of half the tax would enable the brewer to give good measures they were compelled to be inconsistent in order think that I should ill discharge my duty to my cowl. beer to the people at • moderato price ' • and since the to oppose. (Cheers.) Ile had one word more to say in Meats if I did not at once state that they do not wish budget had been brought thread he (Sir E. B. Lytton) oppesling to the great body of gentlemen on the other side their representatives in this House of Commons if they had had an opportunity of speaking to some of the most ut the house. It was the opinion which he had entertained ' could be so penuaded to entertain the proposition of the eminent firms in the trade, and they stated that they akin with regard to the total repeal of the corn lawn which lieu; Chancellor of the Exchequer at all. (" Hear" and hated that under the proposed duty there would be a endue- estranged him from the party to which he had always up laughter.) I dare say, and I should not be surprised if tion in the price of the superior beers of one penny in a to that time belonged—to which, lie might say it without ' this proceeding of mine were called factious. (Hear.) quart. (" Oh, oh !" and cheers.) lion. gentlemen should presumption, he had reader, d some trifling service, and But that is a very old story with me. I have been tallied remember their own argument with regard to the corn low among which he still recuguised, not only private friend., factions by all governments ever since I first had the honour —that they could not soy to what point the price would be but politicians of spotless integrity and statesmen of con. of • seat in this house, and I defy any man, or any body reduced, but that all they could do was to reduce it, and it summate genius and experience. But it was not en that of men, to do their duty to the public without incurring was so with the reduction of the malt tax, which rested on single question alone that he had made a master of hie that charge. (Hat.) But let me tell those gentlemen the same grounds as the reduction of the duty on tea, very humble support to the party ' and to the policy repea l' ho care about it that it means in point of fact nothing— inasmuch as it would be directly a benefit to the tented by the present government. He bad not done so or anything or nothing at all,so the case may be. Sometimes, consumer and indirectly to the farmer in the same while the late administration hooted. He had not don° so when it suits them to do so, gentlemen feel highly manner as the reduction of the duty on tea would until that administration—he did not any this to wound or indignant at the charge—sometimes they treat it directly be a benefit to the consumer, and indirectly offend—died of its own exhaustion—not until the noble lord with the contempt it deserves. They are indignant when to the merchant and manufacturer. In order to see how (Lord J. Russell), a great statesman, looking round on it suits their purpose to give that tune to the debate; but that reduction would operate, he would read an extract the state of partite, could tee nu other statesman I say, to be called factious en this occasion, is to carry out from the great free-trade authority, Mr. M'Culloch, who but Lora Derby to name to her Majesty as his own suee e the wishes of the great body of the people—et all events, stated to the effect that " The malt tax fell directly on the sor—(laughter)—and, subsequently, in consequence of the it will be carrying out the wishes of this metropolis to op- consumer, and was evidently injurious to the agriculturist. condition of atlOirs at home, and still more in consequence pose your leaving the chair. (Cheers.) Certainly the Suppose that a high duty was imposed on calico and broad of the condition of affairs abroad, he had been induced to government cannot object to that couree—for that is the cloth, would it not be a serious injury to the manufacturer? believe that it would be fur the welfare, and perhaps for open and candid way of meeting the question. We do not At one time a duty of 3d. a yard was imposed on all the eafety of the country, to give to Lord Di rby's govern. want your budget, nor do we want you. (Loud cheers, and printed cottons which f. II directly on the consumer, but it meat a fair and a cordial trial. Ile trusted it was to that laughter) And the peculiar position in which the house also operated against the producer, while the duty produced trial ho founded his support ; but he did so with a full is placed, arises from this circumstance—that the Chaccel• a revenue of 600,0001. a year. In 1830 the duty was re- allowance for all the difficulties the government hod to co lor of the Exchequer has told you that he wishes to stand pealed, and subsequent events bad proved the policy of the counter, and with a full belief that it would unite a conci or fall, by each and everyone of his resolutions. What is reduction. The malt tax was analogous to that duty, hatory policy to the clam on which, long distressed, there the use, then, of going into a committee of Ways and and all tho arguments which were applicable to had been produced a deep sense of injustice, with that Means on the resolution for increasing the house duty ? calico, merlons mulandis might be applied to the molt tax." reasonable deference to the public opinion which Lent Suppose you carry that—there arc other propositions which It might be said that this argument only went to the qua- Derby had frankly expressed when he first entered on office. will be equally opposed—and you tell us that if you break tion of a total repeal of the tax ; hut it will subsequently In that school in which he (Sir E. B. Lytton) had learned down in one of them, you intend to resign. All our time declared by Mr. McCulloch that, despairing as he did of the constitutional liberty, it had never been considered a dis therefore in discussing this resolution will have been total repeal, he should be willing to propose that the tax green to a minister of England to regulate, act indeed his wasted and thrown away. Why not, then, take the be reduced one half; aid yet, when a measure which it private doctrines, but his political measures, according to decision at once on the question of the Speaker's was admitted would be for the benefit of the farmers, was the opinions of the time : and certainly he never expected leavi g the chair ? (Cheers.) I do not know whether or accompanied by an increase of the house tax, they were toll to have heard from the leaders of a party who threatened not I shall be accused of it, but I intend no offence or in• that it was a question between town and country. No, it was to change even the constitution itself, in order to bring us still salt to any one. If they will be insulted I cerium help it. not a question between town and country, but a questien be- inure under the influence of popular control— ( loud cheers) (A laugh.) If they will say their feelings are outraged it tween free trace and restriction—(hear)—it was a question —the taunts to which they had given expresaion against is no fault of mine ; that is not my object. I have ouly to whether or not you would reserve a check on industry the present First Minister. But that which urged him tosup carry out that for which I ruse—to bring the qua- and capital because it was accompanied by a direct tax port the present government was not anyqueetion connected ton to as speedy an issue u possible. ( Cheers .) which all political economists had recommended, even if with agriculture merely ; and it was not, on the other Mr. WALTER—If the hon. gentleman persists in that there was no malt tax at all. (Cheers.) lie suspected that bend, any party consideration; it was this—the disposition motion, I shall certainly divide with him, not, however, on the reason which, in the opinion of its opponents, deprived they had evinced towards general measures for the im the ground on which he put it—that of want of confidence the reduction of the malt tax of all benefit to the consumer provement of our laws and the advancement of the people. in the government—hut on the more charitable ono of and the farmer was the very reason for which it ought to lie did not allude only to the reform of the Court of Chan giving the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if he is deter• be preferred to any other, and that was because it procured cery, nor to the programme of useful measures announced mined to commit political suicide, as roach time for repeut- for that clue a more free competition. If the country in the recent speech from the throne, nor even to the aims as possible. (Cheers and laughter.) were banded together against it, then the measure would measures that were now before the house, sincerely as lie Mr. ALCOCK should have no hesitation in voting have risen preeminent in the eyes of gentlemen oppo- approved of these. Ile looked for more to the lib e r a l and against the proposition for increasing the house tax, though site —( cheers)—and they should be told that they enlightened speech of his right hon. friend (Mr. Disraeli) ' be should have some doubts on the subject if he thought it refused to cheapen the beer of the people. (Cheers.) Be- the other evening; for he saw there, for the first time, would endanger the proposed reduction of the tea duties. cause the farmer asserted that he was partially distressed— a pledge from the Ministers of the Crown, not merely of That was an undeniable proposition, and he believed there he was not to be partially relieved, and because mire- economy and retrenchment, but also of efficieeey in the was no man in trio country but must approve of it. Re strictea competition was sow to be the rule, you would not establishments. (Cheer..) Ho warned the house that the did not, however, see that it was at all necessary to pest. remove • restriction which prevented the farmer from same causes of dissension which rendered the former pone the question of the house tax until the question of growing his barley. Now, barley was a grain in which ministry No weak ano so incapable, in spite of the m an y the tea duties and the malt duties was considered. For this country was unrivalled ; in its wheat it was virtues and talents of the men who composed it, and of the his own part, be should be very glad to accept the offer to equalled, sal might even be eurpas.ed, but in that crop it genius of the noble lord who presided over it, still ex remit one half the malt duty as an earnest that the Chan- was unrivalled; and yet you would not remove a restrie- toted; and in his (Sir E. B. Lytton'e) mind throe causes ceLlor of the Exchequer would, as soon as possible, abolish tion which placed an impediment in the way of its conics- would still prevent should that government return it altogetherailear, hear.) lie thought the country owed a ton. That was, theo, an injury to the farmer and the to power that unity and firmness of purpose deep debt of gratitude to the right honourable gen- consumer. It was a precise, and elaborate rejection of which could alone render effectual its own desire tleman for having been bold and honest enough one of the most fertile sources of revenue that Pro- to remove abuses, and which would alone preserve against to a propose the reduction of the tea and the malt duties. vidence had ever bestowed on this country. (Cheers.) the attacks of its own supporters that balance between safe (Ministeeial cheers.) He differed altogether from those hon. gentlemen opposite meant to say that they objected to reform and hazardous experiment, on which in his con who contended that no benefit would be derived from the tax the householders for the benefit of the farmers; but stance he believed they must depend for the continuance repeal of half the malt duty. He looked upon that reduc- this amounted to a declaration against the extension of free iif their prosperity, and far the stability of the monarchy. tion se a boon not only to the consumer, but to the landed trade beyond the classes who lived in towns. (Ministerial (Loud cheers ) interest also. He said that it was right to give et cheers.) They could not object to the house-tax itself ; for ?dr. OLADSTONE—If it be any satisfaction to the hon. great a boon as a reduced duty on tea and malt, but there it was a tax which had always been selected as a proper baronet, who has just sat down, to widen the question now was no necessity to double the house duty. Why did they tax by all their own authorities. Mr. Mill said that of all at issue, that the Speaker leave the chair, in order that we not adopt the proposition of the hon. member for Lambeth, taxes the house-tax was one of the fairest, because it fell may proceed to the consideration of the house tax—to ex and place a probate sal legacy duty on real property ? upon men in proportion to their expenditure in tend this queen., in the first place, to a de- Why did not the government carry out the Witham tax to their establishment. Mr. McCulloch again had anticipated tailed discussion on all the most important items the whole Mums of the country without reservation/ That the very measure before the house. That eminent person of the budget—and to pass from a discussions of the nature tax was now only collected on 190 minim's, whereas some years ago proposed to commute half the tea duties, of the budget to an eloquent and elaborate defence of the the income of the:country was fear hundred millions, the tax and to do away with some objectionable articles of excise, general policy of the government—and likewise to enter upon which, if levied at 3 per cent., would amount to twelve and at the same time the reduction of half the malt duty ; upon a most spirited vindication of his own character and millions, instead of five minima as now. He (Mr. Ali:oche and the substitute he recommended was a house tax—and conduct, which, as far as I know, have been impugned by would have the income tax go down as low as the man at that too, at a time when the window duties existed. no man—(roars of laughter)—it is a satisfaction ut which 12s. a week, who would be gl id to compound for the pay- (Cheep.) The hon. member fur Lambeth (Mr. Williams), I for one should be most sorry to have deprived him. But mint of it by a reduction of the duty of 60 per cent., which advised on this occasion a different substitute—the Wen- on the part of this house, and on behalf of the principle which was now levied oa such necessaries as tea, sugar, soap, and 'ion of the probate and legacy duty to realized property. regulates the conduct of public business, I cannot refrain from tobacco. Why sot cony oat the Stoma tax, not only to Clearly if they reduced their indirect taxation they making an appeal, and from mantas out that if it is really part, but to the whole et the property of Ireland? He WAS Milt increase their direct taxation ; and the simple intended thaws should make progress towards a decision sure the gentlemen of Ireland would not condescend net emotion was, which is the best sort of direct upon the measures of the government—(cheep)—it is most to pay that tax is a iair proportion, when it we. imposed lazation. No doubt the feeling out of doors was so strong important that we should condescend ,at whatsoever sacrifice on every man with Ilk. a week. He also thought that the and in a great degree so reasonable with reference to the of our own oratorical prepossessions—(great laughter)— duty on tobacco, whisk was WOW from a thousand ft twelve probate and legacy duty, that if these taxes were retained at to approach the consideration of these measures in their Misdeed per cent., sad whisk mama so mush smignikei ell. they must inevitably be extended to all property what- natural order. (Cheers) Upon that ground I entirely dee and actually was the SAWN et 2.llo)MoonsWho swum (Hear, hear.) But it might be shown that this cline, with my hon. friend (Mr. Walter), to accede to the to Imprisonment between 11143 and IMfs timid beredesed to proposed substitute was, in regard to the principles of hon. doctrine that the vote now before we or the vote which we Is. It, thanked the house fee the heeds they had given gentlemen opposite, far more objectionable than that con- are called upon to amend in a committee of ways and has, and all he wished to press im the beam was, that templated by the government. Not only all political tem means, is to be understood as a vote of confidence in the times should be a reduction eta tea sad ea melt. and that nomists, but all tolerably educated men, agreed in this— government. It may suit the convenience of persona the revenue should be kept up by greedy askasamy the that taxation should fall, not on the capital, but on the ex. or of parties, sometimes of one and sometimes of another, Mum tax. pendithre. (Hear.) When a tax was laid on expenditure to attach to a discussion respecting the taxation of the Sir B. BULWER LYTTON said he was not about to the man taxed was stimulated to make up the amount of people the character of a vote of c on fid en c e or o f no con& follow th e hon. gentleman through all the tapirs mi width his tax by his savings ; but when the tax fell on the capital dence. But I say, on tbe part et the House of Commons, be had toweled. It was true that the whets gasetion of no such stimulus was given, the deficit was not repaired , that nothing can be more dangerous—nothing can more tend the budget was before the house, but he mega net touch and, in consequence, there was an absolute deduction from to corrupt the House of Commons, in the discharge of its on those points on which all parties were egewed. the relief the wealth of the nation. (Hear, hear.) If that, then, high functions, than to allow considerations purely political to the ookteial had shipping interests. With respeet to the were true, it must abe admitted, that of all the direct taxes to become the governing and determining motive in voting income and property tax, to which reference had been made on capital ' that which was mat direct was the tax upon for or against particular taxes. I hold, and have ever held, by the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, it was a legacies and bequests ; and, accordingly, it would he found that your primary duty, the most elementary, and the most 1 question so large in itself, and which by the amendment of that Mr. Ricardo had singled out the legacy duty for con- ancient certainly, and I think the moot important, among all his hon. friend the member for Montrose was so osinpikated, demnation. It was a tax, therefore, objectionable in your duties is to provide the means for carrying on the public' not only in its details, bat in its principles, that it was ine. principle* and it was indeed necessary that they should service ; and I say that you cannot exercise a deliberate possible to discuss such a question fairly unless it were pause been" they increased it to such an amount as to and dispassionate judgment on the provision of those taken on a later occasion, set apart for the purpose. (Hear, render it a risk whether they would with safety to the means ; you cannot arrive at a safe conclusion respecting hear.) But as in the meaawhile the principal objection to finances ever be able to remove it. (Hear, hear.) The the method in which the funds necessary for the public the measure of the government was the proposed extension hon. member for Lambeth aimed his proposal at the land- service are to be obtained from the people, if you allow of the area of the tax, it would be well that the country lords. But who were these leviathans ? The fact was that yourselves at every stage of your progress to be thrown off' should he aware that his right hon. friend the Chan- the average annual income of landowners through- Irma the consideration of proposition or their intrinsic • cells of the Exchequer had acted not on the harsh, but out the country was onl 1501., so greatly was merits in order that you may take views bearing upon the on the mitigated principle, which was in strict con- property subdivided ; tad It would hardly be fair interests and the convenience—l won't say of " obsolete formity with the evidence which hail been given before the to lay a fresh duty on land until the House of Com- factions "—but of political parties. (Cheers.) The ques committee on the income and property tax, and that, mons had repealed the whole of the stamp duties. lion. tion before us is, whether we shall consent to entertain the so far as the extension of the area was concerned, gentlemen opposite objected to the extension of financial propositions submitted by the severnment, and he had acted in conformity with the unquestioned the area of the tax to the 101. householders; shall accordingly proceed in committee to examine them champion of the industrious chases, his hon. triend the or to • nuiversal doubling of the tax. With respect to the in their proper order ? I think that after what took place I member fur Montrose. (Hear, hear) lie would not enter extension of the area be must say that he did not see how on Friday night last, it is impossible for the h -use on the question which had been raised by the right hon. they were to avoid applying to a house tax the principle to refuse to go into committee—(loud cries of " Hair, gentleman the member for the Janiversity of Oxford, as to upon which they based the property tax. It was their hear")—and I for one cannot divide with the hon. member bow far a speech of Mr. Pitt should induce the house to business only to exempt that class at which the wages of ' for Finsbury, if he should press his motion to a division. think that it would be a imam on the tuudholder to di- unskilled labourer commenced, or only to stop at that But at the same time, although I go into committee on the minieh • tax derived from profits. lie took it, that they point at which it would be either unsafe or impossible to ground of the understauding which has geacrally prevailed were all agreed that it was no longer to be permitted to tax collect the tax. (Hear, bear.) The government was told and on the ground of practical convenience, I ant bound to in the same degree the income of a man who by no fault of that this proposed boon tax would lutes fore with the say that I do so, under protest, and for two reason, I shall hie own might lose it to morrow, as the income of a man elective franchise, and drive off the register many thou- state to the house. The first is this,—that for the first time who derived his from a property which he not only enjoyed suds of the 101. houeeholdein That was no doubt within my recollection, and probably for first time in the for his own life but might bequeath to his children. Ile a grave consideration ; but there was • still graver recol cation of much elder members, a budget has been would suggest the serious consideration of that question to question to be met. The 101. householders formed the most prtaenteit to US on the part of the government in which I gentlemen on both sides of the house; fur what had they important portion of our electoral eonstituencies, and it he- presume to say it is nut professed to provide for the err head in speeches delivered by two indieiduels, came • matter of grave danger, if that clam which could skis of the year a single farthing beyond what is neees so prominent iu position that one or the other exercise so great en influence over all taxation, was to he ' eery to meet that service. (Hear, hear.) Thu Chancellor must be a leading memher of any ministry allowed to stand altogether from the taxes which they had ot' the Exchequer, it is true, in the figures he submitted which might hereafter be formed ? In the !Meech of the the power of imposing on others. (Loud cheers.) Were appeared to show a surplus of 400,0001. • but that 4 0 0,000!. right hon. gentleman the member fur the University of thahposition, indeed, to bo eufortril by a deliberate vote, w hi c h he w ill a pply t o the service of the year is not money Witted it was said that any attempt to enforce such a die- the House of Commons would be sanctioning that principle, raised for the service of the year ; it is simply and solely— erthatioa of the tax would oe a positive honesty ; while in by which all uncient republics were at first corrupted aed and it is the first time I have known such 1 she speech of the noble lord the manlier fir London there I then destroyed—that principle which justified the people a proposition—so much debt which it is proposed I Wee strongly pointed out the danger of departing from a of France preferring en abielute scovernmeta to all virtually to amigo to that purpose. (Hear, hear.) 1 principle with regard to the imposition of the inc o me tax, the risks of democracy, via, the confiscation of lln former years you found it convenient to b orrow money, ! which lied been established by accrues of eueresei ve paha- !revert, fir the b • melt of numbers. (Loud cheers.) lie ,to lend out again f o r useful public works. The right hon . 1 meets. This naturally suggested the question wh e th er it had one word to say of the farmois as tar as they were con- gen tl eman (M r . Menai) pays it is necessary to put an end was desitaide to destroy the first government which bad sensed by this question. He wasted hon. gentlemen oppo• to that system. The repayment of the money will then . endeavoured to estabiith * principle ap valuable to the Me site to dainties Jr m their minds the spectre of "couipensa• come in at the rate of 400,000!. a year; and what ought to I o e st r i e us classes, or whether the principle °i nn tax should lion." If compensation were indeed Fought for, this re- I ho done with that money borrowed by you to l en d ou t I be entrusted to the direction of thou who, as a duction of half the malt duty could only be regarded as a I again for public works? It is a question lam seharned to government, would entertain such a diversity of opinion miserable dole, utterly unworthy of the Hom e o f C om - I ask; and there is no man in this house who on hearing l ' with regard to it. (nears hear.) lie came now to the mons. (Cheers.) At the same time the relic f resulting that question would not say th a t the money borrowed fur ' question of the duties which it was proposed to reduce, and from that reduction would be real a nd no t d e l us i ve . It pu bli c wor k s e h ra i d be applied, as it c oo t s beck, to the .the year,the right t the !pe result gentleman is that the house tax, which it was proposed to double. If a was a real relief to agricultue e ,—h e ' v en t e d, however, not eltioetion of the debt incurred by you. (Hear, hear.) philanthropist were to have to choose the done which he o a f th l e org re e lief e: n b e ti t t i h t e m w a a n s n er no a t ioll the ulw d ifi s ari t t h i e n which the 1 he n i tw it :a l tto surplus the nf " 4:lo i , i t ee e *t o f . was to reduce most beneficially to the people,. the malt duty in which he makes. no provision whatever, ion his own anew sail the duty on tee were precisely th.'e which he would relief was off red, which, went to rs move discontent and to' I protest that he ought not to subunit an estimate for the year select, and yet it was said that the people erould have pre- alley disaffection ; and in this Metier° it wee, accordingly, fined a reduction of the duties on paper and on soap— not the amount hut the spirit in which the h oon was ten- Mg, beyond the absolute minimum of a farthing for the sa (inet hear)—and that was said by that very party who hail dered, which might have the area of reconciling suffering I vices he 'Oates are required. The other ground on which I away' held that the first duties which ought to be reduced interests to that crisis which a change in the na ti ona l policy protest against the mode and manner of proceeding of the should be the /own article , which contributed to the physical had compelled them to undergo. (Cheers.) an g The House of 1 right hon. g entleman was that to which I alluded on a sustenance of the people —( cheep ) — amt although there had Commons felt this in dealing with beeped ; it was the spi- I f ormer night. I then took the liberty of requesting the helm some peso win , had been found ready to assert that tit, the motive, the manner, the inclination, which made 1 right hon. gentleman to consider the proposition 1 then m ew Ing eina sat f eri a, yet h e fo y er h ear d th a t ra y all the difference between the government which Ireland ' made. He did hot think fit to do so, but gave a negative woo on the whole mound, as affording la Oppor tunity of full conWderation on • very urgent question, yet he was as much oppwril as his noble friend him . self could be to the principle of the bill intro Moed by Mr. &eft. Slice, and that he thought it destructive to the rights of property. De e.isld not think that any oommittee-he woe sure not one representing the feeli•ags of the Mouse of Commons—would sanction the adoption of such a bill ; but he would go further. and say, wh a tever might be the re port of the committee, he was satisfied so emotion would be given by her Mijesty'sgoternroent to a numemre founded on PlineiPlee which sPPee' ed to bum Ft animut to absolute confiscation. At the •ente time he thought that it might be well for thee cow-satee to have before them the manner in which other tentlenzen proposed to deal with the same question, mid that there might be some details in the learned torjrant's hill which, properly modified, might be adopted. Thus the committee woull have the benefit of the opinions of parties upon the same subject from very different points. 11e hoped he kaki swish. d his noble friend that it was not the intention of the government to sanction the bill introduced by Mr. tierjeant Slice ; but that the object of her Al kjesty'. ministers was merely to prevent delay upon • most Wl portent ques!lin, which, it settled, would confer • great and material benefit upon the landed interest of Ireland. The Earl of WICKI.OW thought the answer of the noble lord would give satisfietion. Ile, however, considered that it we. to be regretted that a seeming assent to the prin ciple of the bill should have been given by • member of the government. The Earl of DERBY said that the opinion of the highest authority in the House of Commons had been taken on the point. In the opinion of th it authority no assent to the principle of the mossure was given by the course taken by the gust rninent. In this caw., too, there were two bills of widely didereut principles, upon he mine subject, to both of which the !louse of Commons had granted a second readily. ST. GERMANS did not know whether the noble lord was aware that bills, opus a very similar principle to those brought forward by the Attorney General, bad, some time since, been prepared by Mr. Tighe Hiuniltou, the second remembrancer of the Court of Ezehequer. The Earl of DERBY did not wish to detract from the merits of Mr. Tighe Hamilton ; he believer!, however, that the bills preparcd by that gentleman were founded upon a work of the Attorney-General, who thus, if he had ended front any one, had copied from hirnsell and not truss the espy of himself by Mr. Tithe Hamilton. (A lough.) WEST INDIAN COLONIES, rte., I„.OANS ACT AMENIVENV BILL. This hill (upon the motion of the Karl of DISAHT) was and a second time. COMMONS INCLOSURE BILL. This bill (upon the motion of Lord CULCIIISTISIO was read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned, at a few minutes before six o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Faumr, Mc. 10. The 8 took the chair at a quarter before I o'clock. PETITIONS PRESENTED. THE CASE or EDWARD MURRAY.—By Mr. SCOBELL, from Camden Town, in favour of government interference in his behalf. PARLIAMENTARY PAPRUS.—By Dr. LAYARD, from literary societies in Birmingham; Mr. KINNAIRD, from Perth Literary soil Antiquarian Society ; by Mr. AG , LIONBY, from Cockerraouth ; for the free delivery of to literary societies. Taxr.s ON NRWSPAPERB.—By Mr. HEADLAM, from Newcastle.on-Tyne for repeal of. TitaßuDoTt.—Agii not, and especially against the increase in the house tax —By Mr. ItItOTHEITION, from Salford ; Mr. SCOBELL, from a public meeting held in Bath; Sir J. WALMSLIiY, from the British Building Investment Society of Lsadon, sod from 100 inhabitants of the borough of Leicester, with their names and addrcoics and the num. ber of years they have abstained from intoxicating drinks (they set forth the great consumption of malt liquors, and the other articles named in the budget, and state they would consider it a gnat national calamity to intersse the consumption of intoxicating drinks by reducing the duties : they pray the house to adhere to that line of policy which imposes upon the consumers of strong liquors a fair propor tion of that additional taxation which is rendered inevitable by the use of those drinks, not to relinquish any of the revenue arising from malt and hop 9; Mr. HAYTER, from Teignsnouth ; Sir J. 1. BUL LER, from Axminster (this prayed that instead of the increased house tax the probate duty be ex tended to real property and the house tax extended to Ireland); Mr. BAINES, from Leeds; Lord MUL GRAVE, from Scarborough; Mr. COLLIER, from Ply mouth ; Mr. MACGREGOR, from the Returns Association of Glasgow (especially against the reduction of the malt duty), and praying for the repeal of the Lazes on know ledge; Sir J. SHELLEY, from upwards of 1,000 inhabit. ants of Hastings (against the increase of the house and 'Mention of income tax to smaller incomes) ; Mr. T. DUN COMBE. from Finsbury; Sir U. HALL, from the public meeting held on Thursday in Mar)lebone (the proceedings of which were fully reported is the Voile News): Mr. WILKINSON, from 2,000 inhabitants of Lambeth, sug gesting the extension of the probate and legacy duty to real property, and the extension of the property and house tax to Ireland); Mr. W. COWPER, from Watford ; Mr. V. SMITH, from Northampton; Mr. W. WILLIAMS, from St. Mary, Newington ; - Lord It. OROSVENOIt, two petitions from ; Mr. M. GIBSON. fr om the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester (complaining that the financial scheme is based on the principle of class legis lation); Sir W. CLAY, from Kingaland ; Mr. HUDSON, from Sunderland ; Lord J. RUSSELL, from London ; Mr. M. MILNES, from Pomfret: Mr. O. RICAItDO, from the Worcester Reform Amoeiation; Mr. CRAU FURD (2), from Campbelcown sad Oben ; Mr. BAINES, from Leeds ; Mr. BROTHERTON, from the town council and inhabitants of Salford; Mr. G. LANGTON, from Shepton Mellott. RETURNS ORDERED._ _ GA the motion of Mr. MACORIIOOII—. 4 The number of Post-office receiving houses in London, Dublin, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, and Manchestev, respectively; the number of collections daily from each receiving house, and the propurtios th• yegmlation of each of these places, aa per last been to each receiving house ; whether Chanel PeaFefln Mime eau be transacted at ell these receiving Immo. and, gna t dr &umber is each Sole er e Aeon M b bonosiM • &wi the proportion th apes of gams beers to every such receiving fif bomb alio; the number of ...ore in each plena at Ohl* raw letter Weiner sea be inareted, and the prepunien pepskiles eirb plus born to suety rice elks; dr seams ansdatt st lesio n deemed daily la iamb of tie shinrinesdened Isere; air the number of WIN ander in omit Orr le deliver ran letters, sail des dr member of dards' deft in sari Om Land if tits MINN of every one regieged is the pasbolise or Gre w; tbe number of yeses Nab person bee been is the ter. vise g Wary of seek andlismn if any, derived best hea, swing re astute demi hes ; attars of the dodos pew ihnu bsi geseh wtotor Iblo s k a scale If . i rbabo 10 r oslary a gl h a s . ba = B.l r; n si au i:f si t ilig h Wan end the Om Is bo lined le Ater Uri whim; Wafts dor Is a asprositatios drieenset rare stir edits Ike ark of the lad Id yome, smanill of restage stamps sold throe* the Stampeding UMW ensure for Doe week of ISA EMMA in easts= he albs pried; seabed and arm% et pill end Mm sadi As lari mei =irks in ad srasfer of employed In nab year. idit number en g a g ed in eachdoper taunt." On dr se Kr. nu mb —.. Addrese for Marne and ner of inhabited beense, in arm of 1861, of counties, parasols= dleisioniabionflise, skies, sad boroughs, in Weir. drisper ling the separate populatioaW ill inablit of Mobbed berm in each, with the total in mesh crusty purtiantentary divisive of a county, including cities awl Weeshs, and the number of represeutativee retained rpsederest also, as regards cities and boroughs. Or Malt of braes rated to the relief of the poor, the NEW her of Masse and occapaaeies 'shied at 101. rent, and slo wer.* and the number of 101. householders and occupiers on the register of electors ; also the gross number of ale* tors on the register of each eounty, or parliamentary dlrt non of a county, city, and borough, according to the Maim!' of 1861.2; and showing the number of polled at the general elution 1852 in continuation of Pita Nmeatary Paper, No. 691, of Session 1831)." THE TEA DUTIES. Mr. PAGAN inquired whether, in the event of the go verneseet resolutions on the tea duties being adopted, the reduction would take place forthwith ; and if so, would there be any drawback allowed for the stock in hand ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It is the intention that the redo/ties should take place forthwith, and under the cirouseracee government would not feel it their duty to recommend any drawback ? -JY REFINING SUGAR IN BOND. Mr. 1101 , TAY4;;;Redt;;:r. -- ;iu;;;;to the right hon. gentleman tE. Chancellor of the Each( guer, whether it was the intention of government to admit foreign as well as colonial sugar to the privilege of relining in bond and, also, whether it was the intention of the government that the re fining in bond should be optional, or whether it should be compulsory upon all refiners, so as to constitute an uniform 'poem? Tho CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUEIt—I see no reason why there should be any distinction between foreign and colonial sugar with respect to any privilege that may be accorded to the manufacttuer of sugar, but with refer ' ease to these privileges, as stated the other evening, that 1 was in favour of relining in bond on such conditions es might be considered necessary fur the security of the re venue, I hove given directions that those conditions shall be prepared. That is now being done, and when they are in a fit stole they shall be made known to the trade. I premise that the trade shall have the opportunity of seeing those conditions before they are carried into effect. TIIE - BUDGET. On the motion thattilsh;sasTailts rising do adjourn to Mon lay, Sir J. SHELLEY. in reference to the notice of amend mat he had given on the previous evening, to the effect that the immoderation of the ti :social scheme be postponed 6;1 after Christens., observed that be hail thecae/ad he could not, in accordance with the practice of the house, more such an amendment, and that all he could do was to move that the chairman (when they got into committee of ways and means) report progress and ask leave to sit again, whch would only have the effect of postp ming the question mail tlondsy. Under these circumstaucee, though he was still of opinion that sninistan were attempting to thrust their budget precipitately on the public, still, not wishing to interfere with or postpone a discussion which hon. gentlemen on both sides appeared to have come down prepared fur, he should sot =tousles his' amendment. ! answer on the instant, and that fends is it neeeeeary thatl should state the grounds on which I protested. And I will show to the house that there are good grounds for that pro test, whether cousiderral ist re ference to their own iatrintio reasonableness or iu reference to the authority from which, as 1 think, they derive the etrongsat support. The ground which I take with regard to the House of Commons in making provision for the service of the year is this—that you ought not to remit taxation until you have made sure of your ways and means fn the year. And Uterine. I pre. some toes; to the right bon. gentleman that ho would he I wrong if he called or, us to deal with the maior articles of his budget, it he called on us to settle the qu stion of the house tax, and eve-6,11y if he called on us to remit duties until be lass called on this' house fur a recognition of the income tax; and in so cluing I stand on the prin. civic that Sir Robert reel proceeded on in 1412. Well, how do we now stand i The right o ' gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer shows fur the , year—l proceed all along on his own figures—he shams for I the year 18d3.4 • surplus in all of 1,600,000 e, That is 1,300,000 e 'surplus. and 300,6001. ho saves on th e li ellir war. Against that lac charges 6 , 00,t 001.. which he is plug to lay on tee estimate s, and 104,0401. on the light JIM. makerg 700,000/. That deducted foam 1,601,001, leaves a surplus of 900,0001., so that where the late Chancellor of the Ex chequer bed '2,000,0001., the right hen. geed. Mill has 900,0001. Well, is he Roble to sacrifice any purtiun of this 900,0001. ? Ile proposes to hurresidvr (or the year loaael, 1,004,000/. on the malt tax. I confess I should have ie„,,0,, that a very low estimate, tad I take it as he gives it. Then he proposes to sacrifice .100,0101/. on tea ; anal he propsses to impose a new house tax, the amount of which w a il h e a million, but only half of the increase will tome to amnia in the present year. The increase, therefea, wad her ~,,,,I , I 500,000/. Ile is going to a mit 1,400,4401., and gobs gto charge 400,001. therefore ho is going to part with his 900,0001., namely, his entire surplus; and yet it was the right hon. gentleman himself who laid down the principle, that with the income to renewed only fur a year, you were not justified in redueine your surplus even to so low an amount to 1,200,000/., and it is the right hon. polonium himself, who, with the income tax depending, refuse, to take a vote on that tax, anal insists upon gong on with his budget, which involves a reduction of 1,400,0001. and a hiss of 9110,0001. • and therefore, i n t h e protest I venture to make. I hum b ly submit that l em entirely supported, both bythe doctrine and the practice of the right hon. gentleman under happier circumstances. The hon. baronet who has just sat down says there en a great many taunts and jeers thrown out against sp wheals who have changed their opinions in regard ta. free trade. 1 must eon( ss that, so tar as the debates of this house are ea:sc reened, I had hoped that there was a great absence of such taunts. All I can say is Hilt, for myself, whether success ful or not I am not the kolas-, I have stri.en to avant the use of them—(cheers)—and I am quite certain that if they have escaped from any other pa nun it has been through in. advertence. But at the came time I must soy that there are circus:esteems, and especially the 61 . mm:ideates under which government oppean to be going uti, in which it as your duty to remind the leaders of that government of the priliciple+ they themselves have laid down. 1 read the other day tin arausaug report of the Drees edings, whether:correctly reported or not I know not, of • local election, in which one of the candidate, complained of the other that he had re. forted to an unworthy artifice in referring to his antecedents. i (Loud laughter.) I assure the right hon. gentleman that it i a iron no desire to practice either a worthy oe an en s worthy artifice that I point out his antecedents. It is 4.- 1 cause I want to point ant to him the principle which he i held last year, and so strongly, that he thought it necessary I to melee it the foundation of a motion that it was necessary to secure the ways and mean+ before it voted away the : taxes It was a proposition founded on that principle that : I row tfully submitted to him the other night, and which I he, I will not say contumeliously, but summarily rejected. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, declining to reply at that time ill detail to the ()birchen, of Mr. Ciladstone, observed that the right hon. gentleman had addressed the house under a complete ignorance of the facts, and, at the proper period, he should be preload to show that the course he had token was oue that hail beet mound , naled by the highest autlierities. Ile was not in the ordinney position of • Chancellor of the Exchequer; the government having been tainted with bickwar.lnew in bringing Mefferd their measura a, anal with a desire to evade responsibility. Mr. T. BUNCOMBE said ho wanted to ask the Chan cellor of the Exchequer one question. He undersea don a former occasion that he stated that her Majesty's ministers intended to stand or fall by the propoeitious he (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) then made; in short, that they were to bare the budget, the whole budget, and nothing but the budget. Therefore they were no' gulag ante com mittee for the purpose of creating a budget, for the pur pose of rejecting or adopting any particular item, but for thu purpose of swallewing it altogether. Now to that he objected. (Cries of " lA, ade.") If the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be kind enough to inform him that he did ioteud to treat this as a deliberative assembly, and that they might alter or amend the budget, of coarse nothing would be more unreasonable un his part than to divide. If he did not give him that assurance he saould certainly take the sense of the house. Lord J. RUSSELL said as his hon. friend had stated a doubt whether he should divide the house, if he thought proper to divide the house, he (Loral J. Ruesell) should be ready to vote for going into committee, hut he supposed the right hon. ga ntleman would expect that when they got into committee they should not merely discuss the single proposition thee might be before the house, but the whole plan. The right hon. gentleman had told them what was the state of the finances, and a hat would be the state of the finances supposing his propositions be adopted. The whole case must be before the committee. Ile certainly did not find fault with the right hon. gentleman fur Laving brought forward his plan fur the benefit of the man. be certainly so far had redeemed his pledge. Mr. B. OSBORNE said be hoped the right hon gentle man, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, would give an answer. Oo the answer of the right hon. sentinels would depend a considerable number of votes on that fide 'of the house. Ile had no wish to divide with the host. member for Finsbury, if he was mistaken in his view with regard to what was said on a former occasiun by the right , hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli), but he said it was as insult to that house and to the country, if it was to be dealt with—(foed cries of "oh," and " divide," amid which the remainder of the sentence was lost.) Ile begged to inform the hon. member for Sunderland that at this early period of the evening, when be had no excuse for in terrapting, he ought not to interrupt. He really thought it was an insult to the house and the country if they were told that a budget was to be brought in, and that unless every item was agreed to by the house, the ministry would stand or fall by . the budget. Ila called ou the right hon. gentleman to g ive an answer to the question. Übe mused he hoped his bon friend the member for Finsbury would not withdraw his motion ; and he hoped that there would be a sufficient number of gentlemen in the house who would show by their votes the opinion they entertained of the conduct of her :Majesty's ministers on this occasion. Mr. HUDSON then 1 . .),C amidst much laughter. As Non as silence had been in some measure restored the hoe. tleman said—Sir, having been personally alluded to— hter)—by the hon. anal gallant member fur Middle leo, get up to answer the imputation he has cast upon Me. (Laughter.) I can understand the hon. gentleman— ral Want amusement)—end the hon. gentlemen, or any other Sul ought to be ashamed of himself to make use of such language. (Roan of laughter.) I tell the hon. gentle man that there is no man more ready to meet an imputa tion than myself; and tell him that lam ready to meet him here or elsewhere. (Immense laughter, and which lasted fur some moments.) I litre now done with the hon. gentleman. (Laughter.) I sun sure that we have always had feelings of friendship towards each other — (t Oh, oh " and laughter)—and I am rather sorry that he should hate cast such an imputation upon me. [Mr. B. Osborne—l accept your apology.) I hope that he won't again indulge in such statements. (Laughter.) Mr. Hudson proceeded to observe that he wished to :address himself to the main question. (Loud cries of "oh! ") Ile thought that when an hon. gentleman made a counter motion, he was bound to divide. He (Mr. Hudson) was prepared to go to • division, and he hoped that the hon. gentleman would not withdraw his motion. . Mr. 111./ME reminded the house that the right hon. gentleman (the Chanceller of the Exchequer) had asked for a question upon which to take a vote upon the whole policy of the government; but that that vote world not bind each individual member as to every item of the budget. The house would have to go into committee upon eves). separate branch of the hnaneie I statemen•.—u;son the malt tax, the house duty, the tea duty, and the rest—and then hon. members would have an opportunity of propos ing any amendment or alterations they pleased - . Ile !eg ged therefore to suggest that the proper course would he to go at once into a committee of ways and weans ; and that his hon. friend would either he delaying the business, if he prowl' his motion. (Hear, hear.) ' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not answered the question of the hon. and gallant member tot Middlesex, because he had really thought that there was 3 pretty general understanding in the house us to the coarse which they should take. Ile certainly had not said that ths government would stand or fall by ev:.ry vote in a committee of was. and means. lie should have thought that it would have been extremely arrogan• to have said any ouch thing. If the principles on which the budget was founded were not sanctioned, why then the whole would fell by any vote that should prove fatal to these principles. He would illustra'e this—though he felt thet he was irk* gular—(cheers) —by the case of the income 13%, which had been adverted to several times. ,There wo. in the policy recommended by government, the principle of no iliMg difference betwi en permanent and precarious incomes. If the house did not sanction that principle he should think it fatal to the 'chem..; but he would nut presume to ques tion the right of the committee to deal with its details. (Hear, hear.) So, again, as to their first axe. lie collet dered the extension of the house ttx to be a principle os which the government ought to stand. Ile should be me wed also to state the reasons why he thought the details e had proposed were the best; but it would be the utmost arrogance in the government not to listen to the urganienta of the committee as to the details. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that this explanation would be as frankly received s it had been given. (Cheers.) Mr. DONCOM BE said that under the circumstances and after the explanation they had just heard, be should not trouble the house to divide. (Cheers.) The house then resolved itself lido a committee of W.lx and Means. TIIE noun TAX. The CHAIRMAN read the tint rtoolution, Which 'A is follows: " That from and utter the sth day of April, IS 't, duties granted rind made payable by the .k.g 14 & 15 Va., cap. 36, upon inhabited dwelliog-houses in Welt Br tun, according to the annual value thereof, shall cease and de' (ermine, and in lieu thereof there shall be gusted an 1 t-