The Express. — London, England, 1853-04-23 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LOILDS.—FaiDAT, APRIL 22. The Loan Co akCaLtint took his seat at 3 o'e:stk. PRESEN Ctianu Ittlaattnia (CANADA) But.—By the Earl of from several places • the Bishop of RO. CH Etsf Elt , from the Society fa; the Propegation of the Gospel in F,.remn Parts, and the Bilidope of Qaebve and Toronto; against. Co" %Tr Curarti.-By Una SSAM:GEAM, from King's Lyon, ii. favour of giving local 'emluoptcy jurisdiction to siouuty courts. &urea Wilts.—By Liza BROUGHAM, from Dun• hemline, complaining of the difficulty of proving Scotch will. in England. Ptioa Low.-By Lord BERN ERS, from • union in Berkonye and a lotion in Yorkshire, praying for an alters- Sea is the law of aelessmeaL SUSPENSION OF MAGISTRATES IN IRELAND. Lord BROUGHAM, on presenting a win in about 'etch wide, took the opportunity of saying that if it was true, as he was told it was, that by the law of Ireland, ma gistrates were not only liable to be disinined from the corn miseios of the peace, tithe, were in England and Scotland, but to be suspended-it that was the law of Ireland, the aeon rit . *listed the better. Such • thing in England tem never heard of. (Haar, hoar.) POUR LAW REMOVAL AND ASSESSMENT BILL. Loini BERNERS complained that the government had sot stated what their intentions were with respect to this subject, although he had been induced to withdraw his bill on the stnement that they were about to explain their views, and to brim, forward a measure on the subject lat week. It was hardly consistent with the dignity of their lord•hipa' house that a member of it should be induced to withdrew • bill upon such an intimation, and that it should not be faialled. TICKETS OF LEAVE TO CONVICTS. Earl GREY gave notice that on Thursday rust he would ask the government what arrangements they had made for the disposal of those convicts at Portsmouth, Dartmoor, Bermuda, and Gibraltar, who were entitled at certain per.ols to septet tickets of leave; and how many convict" were now entitled to such tickets: CLERGY RESERVES (CANADA) BILL. The Duke of NEWCASTLE, in moving the second reading of this bid, showed the views which had been taken of the sulject by successive governments, and pointed out the reasons sod arguments In favour of the adoption of the measure which he bad the honour of submitting to the house. 11 their lordships wished to maintain this im portant colony as an integral parties-ha would not say as a dependency-of her Majesty's dominion", they must follow the policy which had been pursued successfully for many years, and not act in opposition to it by refusing their assent to the bill then before them. No member of that hope could sa that the set of 1810 did not requite. alteration. It was d i stinctly recognised by the eat which preceded the present ministry, that an alteration was necessary. indeed the only rea son for refusing an waist to the present ball was • fear that the Canadian parliament might make • bad UM of the powers thereby Conferred. but that might spry to many questions of colonial policy-it might have been applied to the powers only a year ago granted to New Zealand to regard to the lands of that colony. There was another assertion which required to he noticed-it was said that they were bound to maiutain the rights of the church of &island. But in truth these rights had now nothing to do w it'i the question. Protestantism itself was not in volved in it. And he made • special appeal, in al: It uphty, and with all respect, but with great earnestnt in, to the right rev. bench, entreating them not to commit the church of England to a contest with • colony on a question of self government, for It could not be doubted that in sock a contem the church must eventually give way, and thus, la the position of the defeated, be deprived of her dignity and her prestige. The Bishop of EXETER (who was impettectly heard) . moved the amendment that the bill be read a second tints that day sit month*. After some critical remarks upon the last 'pitch, he said-Who would ban believed that in D. ccintier list, when the noble earl at the bead of the go verument, in stating the principle's( his government, said they were comprised its two words;• catieer.stive progeert?" What he bad men sines bad much disturbed his (the Bishop of Exit r'.) antics of eoaservative progress Conservative progress seemed to bet • sort of inclined plane, down a hich optutons elided easily, when they had got to the destrumion of edition in the 'Wows. (Hear, hear.) The noble earl dissented; but, at any rate, they had got to the point of de stropog all provision and endowment for religion in the colones. (Hear.) The noble earl mid endowment was a different thing to religioa. He (the Bishop of Easter) admitted that; bat they were combined, and necessary to eachother. It was • duty pointed out by God that every state should sustain religion by endowments and temporal provision.Tbe noble earl assented to that, and in so westing be did so a .re than visa dose by the British constitution, which di rected that there should he as es 'Wished mid endowed church is We °Poetry. By the coronation oath, the sove reign was Mond to maistaiM the church,not only in England, but also M her territorioa, to maintain the rights mid posse.. alonin(religlea. Were they new to be told that religion and endowment ware notoal sot the same, but not even ne cessarily wanted /is did not mean to say that religion could n N 'Mot without endowment, but he would say that no religion toad be adequately sustained is any Pantry without • temporal pansies. The noble duke had referred to what he felled the triumphant answer given to an argu ment of kis (the Bishop of Baser) by a right reverend friend of hoe. He with however, is the position of Beg. hansom who sever knew when they were beaten. The act of sacrilege to which be had alluded was not that lands bed beta given fa Canada by Novae the Third to the miss eating/at That was spoliatio", end it was jocos e steal with the royal oath ; but it was not sacrilege. But to take saltines from the service of God and apply it to Unita, purposes was sacrilege, and he would continue to say that by the petal* of this bill they would be guilty of so:riles., • eta eat only awfully desoaseed, bat awfully pungent. Tli• right rev. prolate concluded by moving that the boll be real a tile that day sin months. Lard LTTTELTON mid Ike moot Almahle objection which bad biota ward ajainet the MB MI ISM which insisted that the *let ei HMO was te be seiwiderod le a Seal raeltaller, but their 'Whips should ' bar thee no legislation was Seal Wish was not eeagrs be the goo*, or whisk haled to aimaaphib he ipseren hr which it tea W col, thso, the tat of 1110 had failed-the I Pto se d i e l lf Canada bad Wooed to amp' it, and therefore it was in powihle m treat the amt se anal. As for the cry which bad barn raised about amain the loyal party of Canada, he mold sot he a neat allow that to stead iq the way of pawing the, rly there might have bees good reason for a dio Section mom* the Canadiaa pablig, but that isameity no longer inlaid. Canada wee now united, and UMW he treated sat whole. mad sine" he. .kaaw.aa. Mktg ergs* through which the colony mull speak but its legislative au. minty, be was baud to take it for greeted eat the loyal portion of the population wen nethsr temere than otherwise to the meaataro. On the abolishes thought that if they aeseded to the wish of the syphilis k visald be nothing lam tbaa • retragreeeive mommeealreat he Use one should otiosity resemtnead their lenisidge Wpm Ile second reedits' this bill. Lord ST. LBONARDS inehasal that the premed Mile lel the clergy reinves bad brew inaermatly mat o& Ml= noble duke sweat stand the Budge Seentary for dm be amebae phis. He eiGhlideitint *Okla Ispdatuselial thoweeerves.hmsamek as they had seen aura theuemial eeveasur sad if the Orgy Mete le be • it - .dim they toughs to go loft Am lie trews: -.211 um said shot this • sommesslea would leaf M pipluite tbesmsaesite wish the isms swain.- bet Nee. tbsillem GSM witytameaset.ankm hawses hrommeleilealMi es irmasge--ead it the sedieressa try yielded rights et. die eras tbe depthery, the a spect et the maw the less be withdrawn, mid the abet "seals te meshes ragbag themehengehealbe butes alum*. =collies ems mtehahiniteetsmp Om peaesbme .41141oPead and Beellibit that peewit 'obi& bed hem esialmety sad alai* seeded la their &rose. mid ohne to aver to these rob thud ea 'Wow of right ea it ;is Et .nlO epeliallest. he hue& Alms bedshlga would .el weak - The Bieber of 1110RWICH aught the ML before the home oat a amseenre *flutist by die amain to Canada ; sod he ahead give hie vete is favour et it, halos that he wee tekiag the wane mast aelseleted o =wet the tabo rer. of the await In Canada. Wham le thus* this wish sum to be just, yet, if the Camas pediesleet shield secularise the slurp mums sad eliessee the p altogether tam the chareh, he essikisrod that the= of Canada would ham se iseisitabh claim o esespeneatime from this govemmeat d this seualsy. (Hout, el :36 The Bari of DEBBY weal& . eseemmead prelate te &maim the hate* el his from kis mud. ree te a d i a litehybt that r illi gemeameet would held themselves me peat say equitable eisepessation to the shank et in the suet .1 her property being album* the seem presleat.eours• far him week' be. leheadijekted lathe set whisk :might mike low Mirassessembe _seaseelie Asea the amp mia mould biditrommt to Newer his is laugh)--ead in the amour Wog in the aegethet be impealibie he him Se Bayport the woad maw ly seriously alleetalaed the*, la bed eapreased. 1. not latell4 upp•amsp ai dhig e gin*M r ia: to the jacks mad et the been 001111. pletely eahaffiebel by and friend. (Hear bear.) Me bed disessilmilii her* thil potability of die: puts or ears ilia M. pomp MN roped to which they were about to hilthle sever was fee • moment at the dis posal of the Camidin legislatare. Previous to 1791 the clergy resarves woes the papers of the sutra by right of conquest. They wee by the mews to the matateasam of the deny, sad a attain utast of drams with the impieties was given to the ledha turn of Masada wise ass et 1791; but all the power they multi ever nudes wee the reserves was the power gives to than by that sae. Seth% eat boat that act :he power of the_ legiekdare was SWIM by it. owl whate.er power they bed plementelhot the. dee OM OM clergy reveries wanes MON by the eat of 1940. 1155 libl uo w awards skore bed set been a eamseeks of resew thine, but a series of massless made by dr wawa sad parliament, with whom the dessisios over these doggy No servos rated, to the Comedian legielatere. And this view .1 the ease at ease disposed, summarily and esaglusively, of tip claim of strict legal right pit foreaed lay the colony of Siesta. The qualities' now only reunified as ti the Pol.er of the appropriation of the reserves It might be the paier of this tieeetry to grant to the colonial legislations still greater power than it already had panted. It woo it dosbodly toe right of the legislature to withhold dime powers, but it might be the policy of the imperial govern meat tat to do so. The powers conferred, however, were ad the Ukase& tight of the Caudle& legislature. but the I • ••• • t • • ~ il. b THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 23, 853. (QCOTLAWII)BILL.—Bf 141 r. DUNLOP, lento Hot pot: rhitrelt penbytory a P sisley, i n Goon o f. Bothety Rains AND Eurasian:a BILL.—By Lord . MOTUAM, from 'magistrates of Mist Riding of York, in orisons onside, wrinkled, against. . Critymnsurigo (Scortakm) • BILL.—By Sir A. CAMP. BELL, from the prnhytesy of kintyre, against.' CNC RCM RAT! *.—Dy Mr. II KY WOUD, from the halo bitants of Tyddesley, for the abolition of. MonToonstiosninn DOKul;Olts.—By Mr. COBDEN, from elector. of the Montgomeryshire boroughs, complain ing of coercion at the last election. LAW or SETTLIOIVIT.—By Sir DE L. EVANS, from the Guardiass of the Poor of the parish of St. Martin's, for abolition of. OCEAN PI NT Poirrison. —By Mr. HEY WOOD, from the inhabitants of Bentley, for. • MIRCEANT SHIPS. —By Captain SCOBELL, from muter mariners, mitts, and seamen of the port of Hartle pool, against manning our mercliantships with foreigners, and thereby displacing English mutes and seamen. TAUT ox KNOWLEDOI.—By Mr. FERGUSON, from 1,500 inhabitants of the city of Carlisle, fur the abolition of. SELLING INTOEICATIAO DittNILA UN SUNDAY.—By Mr. L. HEY WORTH (2), one from Leighton Buzaanl, and ono from Msryport, against. BOROUGH OF BARNSTAPLE. Mr. WORTLEY presented a petition from John Eidson Davy, denying that it was true, as stated in the report of the committee, that be had bribed a person named John Ireland, and praying to be heard at the table of the house in his defence. The right hon. gentleman said he should not found any motion on the petition. KNARESBOROUGII ELECTION PETITION. The members appointed to hear and detetatine this poll ' tion were sworn. The Spathe*Lela' tbine left the chair, The let elausil was agreed to. On teas 2nd elites*, Sir F. KELLY conveyed to the committee an e.therate assurance of the diffidence he felt in approaching a einsmi„i scheme of this vast magnittels—a scheme that i aro ,d,i once effect no lees a sow then 100,1100,00 c, cad that sea, hoped, and he believed he might say inters" sad, to apply to no less • sum than 500,000.0001, it not to ',As en ti re capital of the National Debt. To the cies: and enlightened mind of the right hon. gentletean the Chan ...viler of the Exche quer, which revelled and rejoiced in the complexities and difficulties of his plea, the task mi•At be easy if not pleas ing, but to one like himself of \ ery common and ordinary understanding it wail no trifling undirtaking to call the at tention of the house to the exact meets of a scheme which an much abounded in perplexities and speculation, in con tingencies and uncertainties. (Hear, hear.) He would, however, endeavour to put the house in possession of what the bill really was, and what were really the means by which the rightton. gentleman sought to give effect to certain objects; objects, no doubt, excellent and tweeter tenable in themselves, and objects of the highest import ance to the country, but objects which he thought he should be able to show were wholly unattainable by the bill. j (Hear, hear.) The measure, in the first place, provided j fee the paying off of certain South Sea and other minor ' stocks, amounting altogether in value to about ten millions sterling. To that he could have no objection ; for it was , no doubt expedient that these minor stocks should bo I merged into the larger ones: that object might also have been attained with the greatest facility. They might either have given cotes to the holders and at once paid them off, raising the necessary funds in any way the government might think best, or they might have converted them into en equal amount of 3 per Cent. Console, or 3 per Cent. Reduced. But the right hon. gentlesson h ad evidently conceived that the time had arrived when he might him at the accom plishment of certain great and important objects, in which the country was deeply interested, and which if they had ever occurred to minds of other ministers, had never been submitted by them in any distinct and tangible form to the house. Those objects were three is number. The first appeared to involve a large and substantial reduction of the capital of the public debt; and the second seemed to aim at a no len dealt able end, namely, the creation of a permanent stock of n per cent. The third was a miner, but by no means unimportant matter, namely the creation and issue, for the benefit of the commercial body and' the commu nity in general, of Terme., or Exchequer bonds transfer able from hand to band. If any one of these three great objects could be accomplirbed on rea minable terms, or even if the first step towards their realisation could be taken consistently with good faith towards the national creditor on the one hand and without increasing the national debt en the other, any scheme calculated to advance those ends would hays mot with his sincere and cordial support. But after a careful study of the bill he bad come to the strong and conscienti ous conviction that with all its intricacies and combinations it was as a whole inconsistent and impracticable; and that even if it could be carried out it would be mischievous in its effects ; because • pert of the scheme would make • large and substantial addition to the national debt, an ad dition moreover that would be multiplied twenty or fifty fold if applied to the whole debt. He should, therefore, feel compelled to oppose the measure unless the right hon. gentleman was prepared te strike out what he would call alternative No. 2, which involved the increase of the national debt, and the giving of • guarantee for the long period of forty years at 21. 15s. per cent. (Hear.) He would now proceed to describe the three alternatives contained in the bill. The right hon. gentleman had stated that they were exact equivalents, so that the holders of stock who should choose any one of them would find him self in precisely the same position as if he had chosen either of the others, although they were contrived to suit the con e venience of different holders. Now hie (Sir F. Kelly's) first great objection to the measure was they . were nut equi valents ; but, on the contrary, if the experiment were car ried into practice, the difference between one and the other, and especially between the second and third, would be found to be so great that people would wonder how any minister could for one moment have thought they were alike. (Hear, hear.) Another objection was that the right honourable gentleman, instead of proceeding as every other minister in such circumstances had done, and ought to do, namely, to have invited information from the public as to what ought to be the real terms of the bar gain, had taken upon himself the leek of settling the mat ter, as if he possessed by intuition the faculty of obtaining information on the difficult points raised. Hu first propo sition was this:—The owner of • hundred pounds in the Sonth Sea Annuities might accept a Those-and-a-Half per Cent. stock, of which the capital should be 321. 104., that rats of interest to be guaranteed for 40 years. The real interest would therefore be 21. 17e. od. Now if this pro poeitien had been made by itself alone, :the quesion whether the public would have been likely to take this stock, would have been one of difficulty to the most sa gacious and experienced amongst them. Of course, if the three propositions should be one and all so disadvantageous to the public creditor that they should refuse to take them, then the bill would be a dead letter. The 10,000,0001. re quired to pay off the holders of the minor stocks would have to be raised in some other way, and there would be an end of the matter. But they must assume that the right hon. gentleman was right in supposing that some one of his three propositions would be accepted by the public generally; and it was upon that assumption that they must look at the present price of the stocks, which showed money Ito be worth 3 per cent. and no more. They must look at the state of the country with regard te the precious metals, and at the state of Europe and the world with regard to political events, as all elements to be considered in calculates' of this kind. (Hear, hear.) The second alternative was, that for the same sum of 1001. the holder should receive 21. 16s. per annum, guaranteed for 40 years, upon a capital of 1101. The third was that he should receive 21. 15e. for • period, which was left to be in serted in the bond, but running from one to ten years ; and then for the remaining 30 years he should be guaranteed • dividend of 21. 101. upon the capital of 1001. 'Mediae the bill should peas as it stsod, or in an altered form, the wow try was deeply indebted to the right hon. gentleman for proposing a measure which would establish the thiasiple of effmeing a great and permanent reduction of the national debt. (Hear, hear.) Could the bargain offered at 21. 17s. 9d. be accepted, it would effect a great national benefit ; and were it extended to the whole of the Three per Cents. amounting to 610 millions, it would effect a reduction ei about 90 millions in the amount of the national debt. Were this done, no measure of any finance minister in any coax• try would approach this in the magnitude of the operation and the national benefit resulting therefrom. It would effect an I saving of 700,0001. or 800,0001., as well ea • reduction of neatly 90 millions in the capital of the me tional debt. He rejoiced that they had the high authority of the right hen. gentleman for thinking that this bergs& waa likely to be aceepted to • great extant. (Hear.) Paseo, to Nos. 2 and 3, he was compelled to make • very different remark on those alternatives. The conversion proposed by No. 2 would at once add four millions to the capital of the national debt—a great and Insuperable ob jection if it stood alone. (Hear, hear.) Netbing but a war or some imminent peril or necessity could induce the country to consent to such a course. He contended that I this would be a perfectly useless and unnecessary sacrifice. The bargain was also ohjeetionable, because, as comparing I No. 2 with No. 3, it must be evident the; the dividend payable under the former was grossly exethave. If it were serried out to the whole amount of the three per cents, it the& involve an increase in the debt of fifty millions. The seduction of the interest sought might be obtained dimmer terms, and without any increase at all et the eeriest of the debt. lie called on the government to try the experiment of No. 8 before they sr sorted to the alternative of No. 2. This wield secure to the mercantile community the advent,* of using as many odthose trends, bonds as they required: it would lay the foendation of • Twovait-a-Half per cent stook, which it was said would be a great national benefit : It would avoid =increase of the national debt: it would do no injury to the stockholder, because it would be the Mae to him whether he took 10 01. or these bonds, and at the same time they would be making an experiment the remelt of which would be a guide to them if they desired to advance further. (Hear, hear.) His proposition, there fore, was to leave out the alternative et Ne. 2. Oa Sir Fitzroy Kelly'. motion being put, T►• CHANbiLLOk ofth• EXCII9UICA said h• In very sorry on every ground, ant especial, after the kaad manner in which he referred to him and the general terms of the hill, that the objeetiins of his learned friend ap pared to he of so bro ad and sweeping a character. He con fessed he was at a loss to understand to what points those objections went. It appeared at one time as if he objected to say limit being placed on the creation of the 21 per cent dock ; sad at soothe, time he said it was impracticable, inconsistent, and unjust. But he was limed to add that the objection of the hon. and learned gentleman, it he could define it to the house or even to his own mind, did go to the root of the bid. His remarks were, however, dic tated by commercial and politioo-ecoaomical views which were wholly at variance with his (the Chancellor of tt • Exchequer's). The honourable and learned gentleman thought it fair to IMMO and to act upon it as a practical principle, that they were going to have a great revolution 111 the vales of money, sad he referred to the stets of things forty years ago, when the interest of money was 6 per nat., whereas it was now but 3 per cent. He said it was a moderate usamptios to ery that it would deseend to I} per cent. anti 1 per cent., as if this had been a continuous decline, which had been going on from time immemorial. Whj did net the learned gentle man go back farther, as he went boom at all ? If he did, he weld° find that more than 100 years ago it was less than 3 per cent., and that the Three per Cent. Ptak stood at 106 and 107 in the stock market. That was • most vital fact in considering the question. If they had got in a delightfully descending groove of this kind, he agreed with the learned gentleman that this bill would be a very unwise one, cad he doubted that they ought to tie up their hands even from year to year. He was delighted to end that the learned gentleman spoke so highly of the growing wealth sod prosperity of the coun try, because it was bats few mouths ago—he spoke not as a matter of speculation, but as a matter of certainty which only a prescience issuing from a melancholy ima gination could d-clare--that their present commercial legislation had not merely brought the country to the rand, but that it had actually reached the goal of rain. (Hear, hear.) The I d gentleman said that the value of money would so decrease, that it would be cheating themselves to give a guarantee of 40 years. This was not the view on which the construction of the measure had been based. The menace en posed on the principle ' that it was not likely to see this great change in the value of money, but Oat there was such • ten dency towards a diminution of money, that the go. vernment ought to avail themselves of it. (Hear.) The learned gentleman asked the house to strike out one of the alternatives from the bill; but it would be most un flfrtunate for him and for parliament to be obliged V. go inte the money market with • maimed letrument In hi s hand. bear) This was a must import .at matter ler the consideration of the committee. If they did not ap prove the bill let them reject it, but if they approved of it ' let them nut mar its effects he weukening its force. (User, hear.) The hon. and learned tteutletuan obj cted to the principle of the bill. 110 slid that an interest cf 21. 15s. was unreasonable and extraeagent ; that it was highly objectionable to increase the capital of the debt, and that the object was to extend the bill bereofter to the whole 600,000,0001. of the Three per Cents. But the learned gentleman entirely misconceived his p.nition. That was not the object of the bill ; the object in view was en tirely different from that. The object was to establish a Tao-and-a-Half per Cent. stock, and a hen that stock was established, to improve the terms as fast as it could be done. (Hear.) The bon. and learned gentleman said that the three nroposals of option to be offered were not equi valents. It was quite true they were not equivalents in an &Atheistical sense ; but there were other things to be consi dered. The question of confidence and security entered into price ; but who could estimate their Talus in figures ? (Hear.) Who could put into figures the value of a2O or a4O years' g es ? (Hear, hear.) Woo could put into figures the value of transfers which would pass from band to band, without change or limita tion of place, with the power of deposit ? (Hear, bear.) He was not so presumptuous as to say that these three alter natives were equivalents, even in his own sense of the word, or that in that sense they did not require further adjustment —hut be maintained that in order to get at their money value they must not proceed entirely upon figures antece dent to esperienee. The hon. and learned gentleman esti mated that there was a difference of W. money value in favour of the 21 per Cent. Stock as compared with the 3) per Cent. Stock. Now, there were arithmetical authori ties called actuaries. He had 'skeet one of these gentlemen what was the value, with the funds at their present price, of 1101. New 2} per Cent. Stock irredeemable fur 41 years; and the answer was 911. 13e. 4d. He had likewise asked him the value of 1001. 3} per Cents. under the same conditions ; and the answer was 961.55. Thus the Three-and-a-Half per Cent. stock ap peared at that moment to be worth 41. Ile. /id. more in hard money than the Two-and-a-Half per Cent. stock. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman said if they could get out 20,000,0001. in Exchequer Bonds, they ought not to be satisfied with that amount, but should immortolise themselves by issuing 100,000,0001., or even 500,000,0001. That was a proposition which the hon. and learned gentle man thought he baa clearly demonstrated. (Laughter.) Sir F. KELLY said his argument was that Exchequer Bonds should be issued as long as they could get anybody to take them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—But the hon. and learned gentleman asked wile they should not convert 600,000,0001. of the debt into Exchequer Bands ; and did not admit that there would be the *lightest diet' culty in doing so. (Hear, bear.) There neigh; be a demand for an article up to a certain point, at a given price, and then the demand might cease ; and what they had to do was to find out that point by experience. (Hear, hear.) To find out bow far they could go was the very thing which he aimed at. It would be of no use to flaod the market. The hon. and learned gentleman said it was a perfect fallacy to suppose that there could be any difference, between the value of an annuity of 2!. 10s. registered stock, and the value of an Exchequer bond bearing 21. 10i. interest. Now, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not hesitate to as sert, on the authority of those wan had had abundant cape rience of such matters,-that it was rational to suppose that a very considerable value would attach to the Exchequer Bonds—a value arising from the fret that they would be transferable without charge, that they would be dealt in all over the country, that they would be a convenient form of Eaglish securities for foreigners to hold abroad, and that the interest upon them would be paid in different places. With such advantages in their favour, it was natural that Exchequer Bonds should be issued at a lower rate of inte rest than other stocks. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman complained that the govern, sent had not fixed the exact terms on which the bonds were to be issued. Now, ha must say, that that did not appear to him desirable ; and for this rea son, that it was the duty of the government to issue them on the best terms that they could for the public. (Hear, hear.) Subject, ea they were, to the changes even of the electric telegraph, it was impossible to form a rational computation as to the future; and if be had endeavoured a month ago to write in letters of iron the terms on which these bonds should be issued, either he would have risked the profit which the public might make by the transaction, or he would have exposed the government and parliament to the worse evil of an abortive proposition. (Hear, bear.) The hon. and learned gentlemen said—and he now came to the most serious question involved in the discussion—that al though it was an object of great importance, to create • Two-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock, it was still more important not to increase the capital of the debt. Now, although he was not sanguine as is wholesale and permanent reductions in the value of money, yet he would go this length with the hon. and learned gentleman—that it was most desirable that they should introduce into the system of the debt a stock bearing a rate of interest which in case the value of money should be subject to favourable alteration, would form a basis for extensive reductions. Therein consisted the importance of a Two-and-a-Half per Cent. stook. (Hear, hear.) lie begged the committee to observe, however, that they could not make sure of creating such a stock by means of Exchequer Bonds ; and if he had been of a contrary opinion, he should never have proposed the Two-and-a-Half per Cent. stock under consideration. If they could get out these bondr, redeemable at the option of the state, at the expiration of 41 years, but irredeemable at the option of the holder, the experiment would have succeeded. They would then have the basis of a Two-and-a-Half per Cent Stuck ; they would have placed themselves on ground from which they would be able to effect more extensive operations. But it was impossible for soy man at that mo ment to say whether they could do this or not. He did not disregard the objection to any increase of the national debt; on the contrary, it had always been to him a matter of deep regret that the house bad manifested so much indifference on that subject. (Hear, hear) He proposed to increase the debt to • very limited amount, because he thought it worth their while to pay that price fur the attainment of a great object of national policy. (Hear, hear.) Would the House of Commas pledge itself to the principle, that in no case hereafter should there be an increase in the nominal amount of the debt? If the house were ready to adhere to that principle with firmness, then he must say, that notwithstanding the temporary inconvenience which would he entailed, it would have adopted a wise and patriotic resolution ; and he would be most loth to stand in the way of such an object. But he really must enlighten his hon. and learned friend with regard to this ques tion of increasing the capital of the debt. His boo. and learned friend said, not only was it important that the capital of the debt should not be increased, but it was a great constitutional principle not to increase the capital of the debt by borrowing at a rate of interest lower thaw the 'current rate of interest in the market. Where did his hon. and learned friend find this (treat constitutional principle ? (Hear, hear.) . Ho was astonished at the facility with which many hon. members, to suit their own purpose, con verted an individual opinion into a groat constitutional prin ciple. (Hear, hear.) Let it be well understood that this t• great constitutional principle" was, alter all, • pure no velty. (Hear.) He held in his hand • list of operations since the peace, by which the capital of the debt had been repeatedly increased. In April, 1826, they funded 8,000,0001. of Exchequer Bills in Four per Cutts., adding 660,0001. to the capital of the debt. In 1829 they funded 3,00c0001. of Exchequer Bills, adding 46,0001. to the capi tal of the debt. On the 10th of August, 1839, they funded 4,900,0001. of Exchequer Bills, adding 490,0001.30 the capi tal of the debt. In September, 1841 thby funded 6,000.0001. of Exchequer Bills, adding 606,0001. to the capi tal of the debt. In 1822 3 they purchased the Navy Five per Cents., the amount converted being 150,000,0001., and thereby added to the debt 7,600,0001. ; and on another occasion, in order to effect • small saving of interest upon 1,013,0001., they made an addition of 388,0001 There had, however, been later operations than those which he bad mentioned. In 1817, when the hon. and learned gentleman was ia that house—(hear, hear)-8,000,000/. WAS borrowed, at the rate of 911. per 1001., adding 720,0001. to the capital of the debt; and in 1848 the borrowing of 2,000,0001. offered at the same rate, made a further addition of 140,0001. Thus there bad been 10,500,0001. added ia the gross ; and this, not to secure any great object of national policy, bat simply to obtain a reduction of interest. NOW, with regard to the application of all this to the proposition before the committee, he confessed that he thought the mein object, namely the creation of a two-and-a-half per cent. stock, could not be attained except e l , Wein . it at a premium. If the house had authorised ham to go into the market and sell 1081. Two-andea-Helf per Cent. Stark for what it would bring, be believed the effect would have been to increase the capital of the debt a great deal more than it would be increased by the adop• tion of his own proposition (hear, hear) ; to which he must add that if they wished to create a Two-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock, they must be prepared to pay an equivalent price for it. Several suggestions fur amending the plan had been sent to him, but there was not one to which he could accede. One suggestion was that he should give the fuedholder the option of having 1001. con , verted into 601. of the Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock and 50/. of the Two-and-a-Half; by which means it was ' said the capital of the debt would only be slightly increased. But would the operation have succeeded? lie was afraid not. He might Imre observe that inasmuch as the S •uth Sea and minor stocks would be convert ible into Two-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock, as well . as the other kinds of stock, if it were • question of amount he should have no objection to make the amount 20,000,0001. ' instead of 30,000,0001. ; though it should he added, that if tne holders of the minor stocks came in, the amount would still be 30,003,0001. The main question, however, for the determination of the committee was, whether for any con sideration hey would consent to an augmentation, in any degree, of what was termed the capital of the debt—the price, that was, at which the debt could be redeemed. He thought they must make their choice between abandoning the hies of a Two-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock altogether, and the adoption of a proposition which he would now state, namely, that they should devote to the purpose of reducing the debt the gunnel saving which they would make by the establishment of a Two-and-e-Half per Cent. Stock. (Hear.) By determining that the annual saving should be' . thus disposed of, they would entirely prevent any increase of the nominal amount of the debt; and the only objection ' which could he urged against such a course was that it would retard fur a time—it would bo only for a time—the enjoyment of the benefit of the annual saving. Another I plan that had been suggested was, that instead of offering a Two-and a-Half per Cent. stock, they should offer a stock which for 10 years would bear 3 pi r cent., for 10 or '2O years more n per cent., and should then become a TwO- 1 and-a-Half per Ceat. stock. Now, that would prevent them from attaining fur 30 year. the c hjeet of the creation of a Two-and-a-11.11f per Cent. stork. What he suggested wee, that the annual hawing of .5., on every pxd. Consols should be paid to the Commissioners of the N.etioual Debt, and be applicable to the cancelling of portions of the debt from time to time. Under such a plan the addition ti the capital of the debt, ns it would stand on piper, would be 3,600,0001. ; the saving in the annual charge would be 67,5001. The annual application of 87,5011. to the purchase of Consols for 41 years, supposing the Three per Cent.. to be at par, would produce thi. result. The interest on Con sols cancelled in the first year, weigh& be 2,6251.; in the second year the saving would of course he the tonne ; and the process would continue until, at the extinction of 41 yews, there would be the full saving of 67,4001, and debt would hese been cancelled to the amount of 3,437,0001. By adopting this mode of proceeding, the committ e e wo u ld un doubtedly meet one great objection, securine the creation of a Two-and -a-Half per cent. stock. If, instead of conceding to him the power of converting 30,040001, j they limited him to 20,000,0001., of course a simi ler result would be secured on a smaller scale. If any plan could be suggested which, more than that which he had stated, could further the objects and policy they had I in view, he snould be most happy to adopt it, but all those which he had heard or seen were liable to one fetal objection or another, and were either plans which nobody could act upon, or which would not secure the Two-and-a-114f per Cent. Stock, or would, at least, greatly postpone it. If, therefore, the committee should agree with bun in thinking that it was important to rstabliiili a Two-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock, he ventured to submit this mode of seccring it imme diately. By it their enjoyment of the annual saving might be postponed, but the plan would be established, and the nominal value of the debt would not be in creased one farthing. If he had not succeeded in laying the case clearly before the house, he should feel most happy in giving any further explatmeion, but he trusted he had submitted a plan which would curry out the object he had in view, without incurring the objection as to increasing the capital of the debt. . e.— Mr. T. BARING thought tho measure complicated and confused, but his great objection was the necessity involved of increasing the national debt, as he thought we ought not to indulge in that worst of all extravagance, the 111C11144 of our liabilities and engagements. He should much regret to see a British parliament sanctioning such a principle. Mr. WILLIAMS concurred in the objection to increas ing the national debt ; but, tak ng the proposition as a whole, he felt bound to give it Ins support. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LAING said that the subject was called complicated and obscure, but it seemed to hint to rest on a very simple issue, namely whether it were advisable to create a2} per cent. stock as a barometer to test the state of public credit. (Hear, bear.) 11 it be expedient to do so you must pay the market price for your operation, and the only question that remains was how you were to pay that price. The mode propostd by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was to demonstration the most economical. Captain LAFFAN contested the accuracy of he clm lation, which valued a 2} per cent. stock at 911. t 131. a 4d., and an 821. 10s. 31 per cent. stock at 9111. ss. 82. He had arrived at a very different conciusion. (Hear.) If they took it for granted that the only question in estimat ing the value was the annual payment, he would extend tho priaciple further. Applying this principle and taking 1101. 21 per Cents. as being worth 911. 13s. 42, 1,100/. paying a quarter per cent. would be worth precisely the same amount, and 111. paying 25 per cent. would also be wotth precisely the same amount. He found on referring to clause 12, that whereas all the other propositions are defined and fixed, the proposition of selling Excheqner Builds was left entirely undefined, and they did not know whether they authorised the Chancellor of the Exchequer to issue them above or below par. Mr. J. B. SMITH said he felt the great difficulty the Chancellor of the E &chequer had in dealing with a debt of ab .ve 500 millions, with which it was necessary to give 12 months' credit, which rendered it necessary to deal liberally with the public creditor. He had no objection to the first part of the scheme. He thought he might have gone fur ther, and that the time had staved when they might reduce she amount of the debt, and put it in a proces• of extinction. He believed the country would gladly make a temporary sacrifice to gain that important übjett. With re gard to the second proposition, he had an insuperable objection to any increase of the capital of the debt. Mr. J. A. SMITH looked upon the measure as an ex periment, but he heartily wished it should succeed, be lieving that if it did succeed, it would tend very materially to relieve the taxpayers of this country. Mr. HLi MIL said his voice had always been raised against borrowing money by granting a large amount id stock, in order to effect a temporary saving in interest. Hi had no objection to the first proposition. lie had always been of opinion t h at they should extinguish the debt by terminable annuities. Was the Chancellor of the Exchequer prepared to carry out the second part by providing against any in crease of the debt by an arrangement being made that fire shillings per cent. should be applied to redeem ? Mr. WILKINSON thought it was quite impossible for one of these propositions to be equal so the other. One was a good bargain for the stockholder and had for the country, and the other was bad for the stockholder and god for the country. With regard to Eadhequer Bonds, he thought their being redeemable at the will of the owner was the only thing that would make them float. Mr. J. B. SMITH asked if there was any objection to placing on the table the calculation of the actuary. It differed from that of some other actuaries. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not us how it could differ. A table of logarithms was the same in the hands of one as in the bands of another. What he stated was ' that there were caleulations—ameulatious he would call them—which could not be reduced to the evi dence of figures; but that which was reducible they would dud amounted to so and-so; and be read them the answer of the actuary, but he never stated that that in his judg ment was the immure of the value, because of necessity the actuary would not undertake to state b., logarithms the amount that would he taken. Mr. DISRAELI said, when this question was before the house, first in the shape of resolutions, and now in the shave of a bill, the general impression woo, that her Ma jesty's ministers were about to deal with the great body of the public securities. and that the sum which would come • under the immediate., the contingent, operation, would be a sum amounting to about 500 millious sterling, and, no doubt, when that impression first went abroad, it was a very startling one. The subject was one of universal in terest and of vast importance, and the consequences, even in a limited . sense of a successful operation on such an amount of the national debt, must : be very considerable. The popular idea was that if they could reduce the interest ou such an amount of debt from 3 to 2} per cent. the effect of such as opt ration would by considerable. Let the committee bear in mind what that effect would be. They would have to pay interest for that amount of debt instead of 15 millions, about 14 millions, ' effecting a saviug of 2} millions per annum, ono of course the country bad associated with such an open wino the moat beneficial effects. Well, new let them see what were the savings that were to be effected by the propositions of the government. The sketch which he made wee when be first heard the proposition in the house. It had been somewhat altered since. He took the 30,000,0001. to be courted into 31 . 10s: stock, 30,0001. into the new Exchequer Hoods, , and the 440,000,0001., which would be converted into capital at the rate of 31. 10s. interest for 821. 104. stuck. Now if the plan of the minister was complete, and he must presume to impress on the committee that it was f the utmost kn. portanee in the consideration of all these finanancial projects that they must cushier them as complete in order to test their truth, the effect would be that on 30 millions of Exchequer bills converted into 1101. stock at 21. 10s., or 30,000,0001. of Exchequer Bonds at 21. 154., and 440,000,0001. stock at 21. 17e. 911., the interest would be 14,396,0001. on the 15,000,0031.: nod there would therefore be an annual saving of something like 600,0001. a year. If the result wore to cause a rise in the interest of Eichequer Bills, there might be a considerable lots, bet be • would not take that result into consideration. The plan of the government wee, that from the commencement there should be • guarantee of forty years, with so possibility of making a reduction in that period. Now, he begged the house to follow him in some notes that he bad made on preceding operations upon the national debt, and to contrast the amount that had been steed to the country on these operations, with the terms upon which the operation was effected in the project which the right hon. gentleman had now placed before them. The com mittee would recollect that they were now paying for this , 500,000,0001., 15,000,0001. a year, and that if the . plan of the government wee adopted, and they were not , to attempt any further reduction for forty years, they might save 600,0001. a year during those forty . year,. Now look at 1717, when, be believed, the first conversion took place under Sir Rohert Walpole. He dealt with dividends to the amount of 1,500,0001., and the saving that was effected was 324,0001. • year. The saving now to be effected in dividends amounting to 15,000,0001. was 600,0004 a year. Then there was no stipulation in the act of 1717 for guaranteeing the interest, a most important point for consideration. If, therefore, they contrasted the project of the right hon. gentleman with thst of Sir Robert Walpole it was quite clear this project did nut effect near so great a saving. A reduction from 5 to 4 per coot. took Wee* iu the Ist of George 11., which involved a saving of 340,0001. a year, more than half the saving now proposed to be effected ; mad in that case there was no guarantee. In 1749 a conversion was effected by Mr. Pelham from 4 to 3 per cent., saving 565.0001., nearly as great • saving as that which would be effected if the whole of the present project was c,rried into effect. He believed that Mr. Pelham gained iu that in stance, though be spoke from memory, a guarantee forwent years. The guarantee now proposed was for 40 years. In all these conversions the terms contrasted very favourably with the proposition before them. He now approached to modern times—to 1822—when Mr. Vansittart effected a reduction from 5 to 4 per cent. He dealt with a capital of 159,000,0001, and he effected a saviopi of 1,200,0001. • year, double the amount which her Majesty's ministers now projected say. The consideration given was • bonus of 5 per cent., which amounted to 7,400,0001., a sum not too much, eonsi dering the amount of that which the right hon. gentleman bad given in his second alternative. The guarantee in that case was only for seven years. Well, now, the committee would observe that in all these arrangement., frnm the first of Sir Robert Walpole down to the yes: I£C2, the tulle were extremely different from those now on air considera tion. If they looked at toe guirantee in ell these errangements they found that they were given with great hesitation, and only for a short reriod. If they looked again at the bonuses, even the largest had never reached the height of that proposed to be given by the right hon. gentlemen even by one of his alternatives. In 1824 there was another conveisien, the capital beirag 78 millions, and the saving nearly 400,0001. ; a very consider able sum when contrasted with the capital now to be dealt with—namely, 500,000,0001., on which it was only expected to nee 600,0001. a year. The guarantee too, was 0 51 7 for five years; so that after the experience of • century of these fete V a al of the crown and parliament. Ou the other bead ha was ready frankly to admit that ea elle oda, ed yawed in intelligence and wealth, and impeached to that state in which he roust say its alepeaf mice on this, - country was • marlins' rather than a feta liesr)—from the time they conferred teprepartatilre Joan lotions on Canads—and th , : same observation would at ply to ether Coi , 4lilS—it was in his opinion a matter of policy to keep a lighter and lighter hold over mitten of internal policy—cloud cheers train the ministerial benelnA) ;—end to grant to the colony a continually increasing superin tendence over its own affairs. (Renewed cheers.) And the extent to which those concessions were to be made by parlsement was only to be limited by the cmsideratiens involved. But hr could not admit that the question of the appropriation of the clergy reserves was a local question— it appeared to bim to be a question in which imperial interests were concerned—(hear, hear) and when the same power was brought to bear on the Roman catholic and protestant institutions in the colony, it was difficult to contend that the legal maintenance of the control exercised over the Monsen catholic' was a matter of general concern, and they were to keep that in their own hands, whilst the maintenance of the protestant clergy was only matter of legal interest. lie should be disported to strain the point on the pert of the parliament of this country for the purpose of doing that which he believed to be the wish of a great majority of the people of Canada. (Rear, hear) The measure of 1840 was intended to be • permanent and Anal settlement; and he frankly declared that no consideration on earth—not the chance, If there would be • chance, of severing even that nominal depen dance of Canada on this country—should induce him to take • step which he could not riconeils to his conscience, and which he believed would be productive of the most serious evils. He would not, therefore, as a minister, have interfered with the settlement of 1840. To a certain extent the position had been altered by the way Is which the matter bad teen taken up by the present government. By two successive governments promises bad been given to the , people of Canada to give them a large control over the clergy reserves; and a large portion of the legi•lature of Canada was anxious to obtain that power. He could not shut his eyes to the fact that the other house of parlia ment bad sanctioned the principle of the bill, end thus eir• eunotaaosd, he was anxious to go to the utmost bunt to which he felt he could go, without infringing those solemn obligations of honour and good faith which ought to be d hau any other consideration. (Hear, hear.) He tea risen princi pally for the purpose of saying that is the condition in which they then stood be was anxious to find the possible means of not meeting this bill with • direct negative ; and ha was prepared, therefore, to present to their lordships a proposition in committee, if they should pars the second reading of the bill, whereby power would be given to the legislature of Canada more extensive than that given by the act of 1791, but maintaiaing inviolate all appropriation which had heretofore been made, not for the lives of indi viduals who had a secondary interest, but maintaining as a permanent provision—be it for the church of England, be it for the church of Scotland—all appropriation which, either under the act of 1827 or the act of 1840, bad been already allotted and solemnly given over, not to individuals, but to trustees in trust for the benefit of those churches for ever, maintaining those atrictiy and inviolably. (Hear, hut.) He spoke for himself alone : he would waive all the great and serious objections which he entertained to the bull, and which would have prevented him as a minister horn ever submitting it to parliament—if he could obtain such • modification of the measure as would say in effect that that which had been allotted and appropriated, under the authority of parliament, by solemn compact, by legisla tive act, under the assent of the crown, should be held in violable—being the property of the churches of England and Scotland—as inviolable as if it was the private property of any of their lordships. (Hear, bear.) lie should tiara to propose this in committee, and to explain his views per haps at some length. It could not be of local, but of im perial interest, that the engagements which they had entered into—those rights of property which they bad affirmed— those estates which they had handed over—those funds which they had vested in trusteese—shuuld not, by an act of tyrannical power, in obedience to the unreasonable demands of the colon ial legislature, be set aside. (Hear.) That could not be • matter of local, but of the highest im perial, interest. (Hear, hear.) He was anxious to have an opportunity of submitting this to their lordships' considera te@ ; and should they be induced to accept such • miasma- Mile he would, however reluctantly—with the hose that each • concession might lead to peace—waive his objection to the measure, and assent to the third reeding of the bill. Bat if they hoisted that the measure should not be pro spell)* only, but retrospective also—if they violated the engagements they had entered into and plundered parties of property which they had bestowed upon them, then no consideration on earth—not seen the dismemberment of the empire itself—should induce him to set his hand to a bill of that description, and say "content,' whatever might be the hazard of saying "nos content." (Hear.) Hari GREY did not understand the noble earl to say that he should not vote fur the amendment, and the propo sition he bad offered would virtually detest the bill, although he had thrown out the expression of • hope that it might pass, by common consent, on the third reeding. He would state the grounds on which he thought the bill should pass iu its intefinty. For • mahout he would allude to the observations which fell from the right rev. prelate early in the debate. It *petered to him that the right rev. prelate had entered into an able argument and displayed his logical powers very uonectsaarily, to prove that the ira *Tie' parliament was supreme, for that was a proposition which he believed the noble duke who moved the second readmit of the bill would net be disposed to dispute. It was one thing to have a power—another toss* it. They haul undoubtedly the power to carry the measure nwe be fore them iota effect, and as long as they used the power for an imperial purple., they were right in exerting it. It had been end red to show that if this measure were carried the Raman catholic church woad be in a somewhat different position from that in which it now was. Techni cally that might be so, but substantially it certainly was not the fact. Objection also had been ands to the extent of the measure, but it conceded all that had been asked. If hereafter the colony should ask Shy more, it would be time to grant it. He could not but exprom his regret that the noble carloppositis (the Earl of Derby), who had held such high situations in the government, had not given the Louse his opinion of the eff-ct of rejecting this measure. He (Kul Grey) begged to remind the house that a right hen. Wallet In the Blouse of Couscous (Sir J. Pskington) did net seek* conceal his impression that the rejection of this riseasstoo was fraught with the greatest dan ger to the oommxion of this country with Cased'. Foe himself, he bedrooms to the conclusion that if they rejected the bill, they would enter into a controversy with the parliament of Canada which could only end, either by this country giving way, or by the colony, in • few short, easy steps, separating itself from as. (Cheers.) (*- nada was now prosperous and loyal; and he warned sgek lordships not to attempt to disturb so happy •state oft lOW The lark of DERBY felt himself ogled upon to renal& apes** Inquiry of the noble earl who had just sat down witkompoM to the way in whisk be (the Earl of Doty) should *le a n ibis occasion. From the statement whisk he (the Ed at Derby) had made the noble earl must sit that while em the one baud he could not consent to adopt the bill in he t shape, be was, oa the other, very eosins to their lordship' attestion to a modi fication which be could only propose in comsalttp. Taking that view.llo would wish tba bill now to be read a second time; and eithoeigh lie had as right to make may personal request of the eight rev. prolate, he would venture to suggest that it wouhChepr the seaveniesioe of their lordship. that the amemillimiatt ttl lad be Withdrawn. (Hear, hear.) TIM 'Map oP EIIZETBH edoptel the suggestion, and withdrew the amendment. The Duke of NEWCASTLE propped . * take this com mittee on the hill on Blessdi* host ; and it would be an advaitZr amin the agilemet shield at one, state the natio. of 'the TN Part of DERBY mid that the bill had only been delivered that day ; as IN eimmittee was to be taken se soon after the emead roolleg the male deke was hardly entitled to melt „ter the Mime the ameadeaent. Haring, however ' oblehiel • espy'ref the WU - while it wee paining rey the ever hew, he had framed the amendment, s a id eflh h egk be wevielset bind himself to tAs evert words, he would lay it ea the table at as... The DMus of NEWCASTLE bed sot been aware that tie bill bed oily bees delivered so lately ; but et say me it was read a Les time fortnight ago, so that them wee no amine lame is its progress. Several noble lords here stated that they bad had the hill delivered to them several days ago; end upon this the Earl of DISHY aelmowledged that he mut then be mis taken. — Ws; bill was than read a woad tin*, and their lordships (at half-post cloves o'clock) adjourned. HOUSE OF L'OMMONB.—FRIDAY, APRIL 22. The Bruin took the chair at 4 o•oloak. THE MAIDSTONE ELECTION PETITION. Mr. HUTT reported that the select committee appointed to try the election petition for the borough of Maidstone bed determined that George Dodd, E.g., was not duly elected to serve as a burgess for the borough of Maidstone ; that the last return for the said borough so far as regarded the election of the said George Dodd, Esq., was a void elec tion. Also that the committee bad agreed to the following revolutions: "That the said George Dodd, E.g., by his agents, was guilty of bribery at the said borough ; but it I was not proved that such bribery was with the Itoowledge or consent of the said George Dodd, Esq." PRIVATE BUIIINESS. The Helm. Reservoirs Bill was read a second time. GREAT GRIMSBY IMPROVEMENT BILL. An Hon. U moved that • clause ho inserted in this bill to prohibit persons who bed been employed to survey woks under the Board of Health being employed to sorry out Use works. Sir W. MOLESWORTH opposed the clause on the 'mad that it would prevent the tow, council, who were also the board of health, from szercioing the right of em ploying their own engineer. After a short discussion, the clause was withdrawn. PUBLIC BUSINESS . PETITIONS PRESENTED. OPINING or FRI COYSTAL ict.7Cll - WfSUNDILT —By Mr. A WILKINSON, from Liotos, near Nottotlibam. from Recleshail, from Newton. Cheshire, from ggaithwick. sear Birmingham, in favour of. ADVIITI . DI :MT.—By Sir 0. TYLER, from Hoary_ Webber, editor ud proprietor of the 01141 end Merthyr Uwandieus ueeropaper, praying for the total repos! of. MALT Tax.—By Mr. ALCOCK, from Croydon, in favour of the repeal of. Titus& DOTT.—IIy Lord HOTHAM, from shipbuilden of Hull, complaining of the timber dotter, and that no pro. pout to afford them relief has been made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. SALARIES IN THE POST•OFFICE. On the motion of Lord Bast/ova of salaries, wages. and allowances of the Post-office depart ment generally, divided into branches and classes, and showing the number of persons employed, and the amodut paid under each class, in the year ending the bth day of January, 1835, and in every subsequent year, to the bth day of January, Issl ; England and Wales—Branch 1, Metro politan; Branch 2, Provincial; Branch 3, Colonial and Ira load. abroad. And similar returns fur Scotland and SPIRITS IN IRELAND. On the motion of Captain Jostle a return was ordered of the total number of gafions of spirits distilled and charged with duty in Ireland in each year, from 1800 to 1852, both inclusive; the total amount of duty received in each year, and the rate of duty per gallon, distinguishing the number of galloon charged with duty for consumption ; accounts for the same period of the number of detections in each year, and of the number of persons prosecuted (specifying the number convicted) fut offences in Ireland against the laws for the suppression of illicit distillation; and, for the same period, of the number of persons confined in each year in the I gaols in Ireland, either charged with or convicted of any offence against the laws for the suppression of illicit distillation. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. Mr. O'FLAIIERTY moved for returns of the entire amount which has been expended by the Commissioners of Nationel Education in each of the four provinces of Ireland for the last five years, including grants for building, repairs, and fitting up of schools, purchase or rent of agricultural schools, or model farms, free stock of books, and school re quisites, salaries, and gratuities to teachers, expense. of in spection, and all other incidental charges paid by the com missioners, giving the amount expended In each province separately. And, of the several officers In connection with the Commissioners of National Education, both in the official establishment in Dublin and throughout the other parts of Ireland, who are in the receipt of 1001. per annum or upwards, specifying the sum paid to every such officer as' annual stipend, travelling charges, house er office rent, or other incidental expenses, with the religious denomination of every sueh officer, and the county or province to which he belonged when he entered into the service of the com missioners. CONSOLIDATED ANNUITIES (IRELAND) BILL. Sir 1). NORREYS moved for a return of the rate per pouna of valuation of the consolidated annuities on each electoral division, awl on each union in Ireland, and of each province. Agreed to. LICENSES IN IRELAND. • Sir D. NORREYS moved for a comparative state ment of the amount now charged in Ireland for each license for a trade or profession, and an enumeration of the trades or professions which will hereafter (under the pro posed resolution of the Chancellor of the Exchequer) re quire a license, and the charge to be proposed for each lamas*. Agreed to. WAGES OF LETTER CARRIERS AND SORTERS. Mr. WARNER said he did not quite understand the answer of the Secretary to the Treasury yesterday to the qualities pat on this subject. He presented a petition some time ag o from the sorters, who described their condition as woes. than that of the carriers. He wished to know if it was intended V. take their case also into consideration. Mr. WILSON replied t at he did not intend to say that the subject of letter carriers was under consideration. What ha did intend to say, and what he believed be did say, was that a great number of individualapplieations had been midst. the Postmaster-General from different letter carriers, that the Postmaster-General had considered each case aepamitely, and whoa he thought the claim was just, he had made an advance, and in other eases where he did not think the ease demerit* he had refused. With regard to the other smspipy#, if the Ikon. gentleman would ask him un Monday evening, he would give him what information he could. THE CUSTOMS AND THE PORTS. - Mr. WILSON stated that it was the inteuttoi of govern ment to abolish altogether the present system of clarifying ports and to have *no separate classification, but to deal with each from time to time accord* to the circumstances of the port and the amount of revenue collected. The sa laries of the officers and the different arrangement. of each port would be Good in future with reference to the eir eunastanees of the port and not with reference to the classi fication of the port. CLASSIFICATION OF NOTICE OF MOTION. _ THE TOWER. Lord D. STUART gam notice that on Monday next he should move for a return of the number of tons of saltpetre which see kept is the vaults under the rooms where tho parliamentary and other record/1 sre deposited in the Tower of London. METROPOLITAN BUILDING ACT. Lord D. STUART all - notice of his intention to ask gave _ the First Comoilssioner of 'Narks whether it is the inten tion of government to introduce during the present session any bill for the amendment of the Metropolitan Buildings Act. DUTY ON RAISINS AND CURRANTS. Mr. BWAB,T said it appeared by the proposed alttrations is the tariff that the duty oa currants was higher than the duty ea Me ekedat. He eked it it was the inteation rfreh easeellor to reduce the duty on currants in the same Pee Portio n of the EXCHEQUER rid he !rat answering from memory, ►ut it was an error to suppose that raisins and currants always paid the same duty. They had for the last few years, but currants were mach more valuable than Mains. He thought it wee in 1845, or about that time, the duty cm currants was reduced, and the duty en raisins we. Mimed to the point if 16c. on the ground of come aegotistioes with Spain. At the present moment the duty was 16e. on currants, and the proposed duty on raisins was 10s., which would still leave currants at a Ma thely.higber duty. He should be my happy indeed if they WWII an a condition to propose a further considerable redac tion la the duty on currents, but adverting to the prevent state of supply, and the shortness of recent sops, he should not at all feel iumfldent of any practical replaosnient of revenue. It would be an immediate loci to the revenue, and at tlio present time be did net think they would be justified is asking the alteratioa. INSURANCE COMPANIES. Is sumer to Mr. Mr. WILSON mid that in his recent statement teepee ing insurance companies, the protatioas ha made use of had reference to the state of Mines before 1844, and set inheennest. COCKERMOUTII ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr. C. BERKELEY moved that the endence taken before this committee be printed. Agreed te. THE OFFICERS OF THE BOARD OF HEALTH. On the motive by Mr. WILSON, that the house et its risieg adjourn to Monday, Cu!. HARCOURT said, that on the 10th March he moved that a return be printed and laid on the table of the house, stating the number of the persona who had been employed es surveyors by the Doted of Health who had been employed as engineers in CSlTying out the works they had recommended. Innvad of the return being printed, it bad been forwarded to him in manuscript. It had dues come to hie knowledge that two places —one of them being no less a place than the city of Salisbury—had been omitted I from the return. Sir W. IdOLESWORTR had made inquiries at the Board of Health, and had been assured that the return was in strict cinforniity with the terms of the hon. and gallant member's motion. If any erne was to blame it was the hon. member himself, for not having mere clearly ezpremed what be meant. The motion respecting the adjournment of the house was then agreed to. WATERFORD COUNTY ELECTION. Kr R. MOORE moved that the minutes of evidence on the Waterford county election, presented on the 4th inst., be printed. Agreed to. SOUTH SEA AND OTHER ANNUITIES COMMU- TATION BILL. Oa the motion that the Speaker should leave the chair, is order that the house might go into committee upon this bill, Sir FITZROY KELLY said it had been his intention to have moved an iustruction to the committee, or to have .übmitted to the hone some other form of amendment under which it wOuli base bees eonspllgat for him to kayo celled attention to the important principles involved in this I bill, and to the any objections there were against it, be.ides those great and parem,unt objections to the mea sure, namely, that it provided for a large increase of the 'capital of the national debt, and also fora guarantee for ' forty years of the unreasonable interest of 21. 150. per cent. ; hut having understood that some technical difficulties might arise from adopting that course, he should reserve his co- narks mail they came to the &eclat's*. ~• MO tell a CC the