The Express. — London, England, 1847-06-02 00:00:00

N i by thew three messages was 97,760, who, with their families, gave a total of only about 500,000 individuals, who w o uld thereby removed from being • burden on the poor-rates, lonia, still 2,000.000 of p ersona ID a state of destitution for 10 weeks out of the 5. His next consideration was, r og it si e eulonisation could be used as one of the means for an improvement in the condition of Ireland. The reds losi at the head of the government had expressed a boo rat ea improved cultivation of land would fo ll ow the operation of the new poor-law. But he (Lord Lincoln) appreheoded that that improvement could not take place so long as there existed such a minute subdivision of property in so many—be believed he might say in meat, parts of t country. More than one-half of the persons rated for the relief of the poor were rated under 41. per annum. Accord ing to the census of 1881, Ireland contained a population of 8,171.000. Its screen was 20,808,000, of which 13,461,000 • enble, „,1 „.230,000 waste. Oa the arable lend the there were located 1,945,000 , of whom 834,570 hem dam one to 60 acres ; 505, from one to 10 acres ; 317,000 Item one to five acres ; and 135,314 persons with not more dies sae acre. Now, so long as land was held in that man ia,. he tOIICCiTeCi it to be impossible to have that necessary raftlion of crops, or that improvement of stock, or that em ployment of skill and capital which were so essential fur the gradual advancement and general prosperity of agriculture. When officially connected with Irelaad he paid a visit to the estate of the noble lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs— an estate to which he had no reluctance in referring, as it was managed with the greatest liberality and generosity—the only error being, if error it were, that the noble lord invested in it too much money. The parish in which it was situate and which included besides, an estate, also well managed, belong log to Sir It. G. Booth, contained 16,410 acres , • considereble Mcertainly being mountain, the annual value being l a ., the population 8,750, and yet the quantity of land under corn cultivation last year only amounted to 432 acres. The nature of the tenancy of the land in Ireland had heretofore rendered it impolitic for the state to interfere. But that difficulty had been got over by the present calamity, which had removed the indisposition on the part of. the people to abandon their small tenancies—the difficulty now being on the part of the landlords to induce them to continue. Within the last few days he had been told of a landlord who, having afforded the means of emigrating to Canada to nearly 1,000 persona on his estate, was immediately pressed by 2,000 more to grant them the same boon. He was as strongly op • posed as any hon. member to compulsory emigration ; but he was fur facilitating it by every legitimate means, and for placing no limit to it bat that which the equalisation between the capital and the labour of the country would present. He did not dispute the opinion of Sr R. Kane, that Ireland was capable of maintaining more than double its present popula tion, provided that measures were adopted to improve the social oendition of the people ' to create a better cultivation of land, to open the mines and fisheries of the country, and te establish manufactures. By these and other means, he admitted, that capital mightbe so invested as to give employ ment te such an immense population as Sir IL Kane con templated. But what he (Lord Lincoln) contended was that under existing circumstances, there must first be a temporary reduction of the population, to enable them to effect that object. He proposed colonisation, with the view of giving employment to the people. It was objected that he would send the bone and sinew of the country away, and retain those who were exhausted and weak. Thew, on the con trary, he considered fit recipients for relief under the poor law act. What he cemidered was that there was a redund sacs of able-bodied labourers in Ireland, whom, with a due regard to the interests of the country, he wished to see esta blished in another region. Every committee and commission that had been appointed to consider the social condi tion of Ireland had one and all more or lees strongly advocated colonisation as one of the means calculated to afford relief to that country. The committee of 1830 consi dered emigration as peculiarly applicable to Ireland as a remedial measure. Lord Devon's Commission expressed a similar conviction, and the second report of the relief com mission, presented so lately as the 15th of May, contained opinions which led to the same conclusioa. He had no new project or plan to propose to the house ; but he felt it kis duty briefly to review the capabilities of some of those colonies to which emigrants from this country might proceed, as well as some of those plans which had been proposed, but without advocating specifically any one of them. The hon. member for Gateshead, in bringing forward the subject of colonisation as necessary for the relief of Ireland, alluded to Australia as a bright example of success, and of what might be done with a barren wilderness by means of colo nisation in ten years. He admitted it ; but when they con sidered that the labourers could only be introduced into that colony by the produce of the land sales, and that the passage money was from 151. to 171. a head, he did not think Aus tralia could be rendered useful for the purpose he had in view. The same objections applied to New Zealand, although he admitted that in reference to both the case was worthy of inquiry. But there was Natal, on the east coast of Africa, which had not of late years attracted its due attention, which contained at least 6,000,000 of acres totally uncultivated, whose clients was suited to the people of this country, where iron and copper existed in great abundance, and where, it ought not to be forgotten, they might by ancouramnis 'mention, eivilin at some future time other regions of Africa. The circumstance of so eminent • man as Sir 11. Pettinger having been sent out there would afford facilities for in miry, which he hoped would be taken advantage of. But their attention might be more particularly directed to the nearest colony of all, and to which all plans were applicable—namely, our North-American where there was abundance of food, and great lla trts, unoccupied, although not unappropriated, land. It was a fact, hemmer, that the individual who were in pemesiea of those appropriated lands were in the constant habit Olathe them, from necessity, at a much lower rate than thane which still remained in the hands of the government. He would refer to a few figures to show the rapid advance of this colony, and how bene fi cial had been the result to those who had Rome there. In 1820 the population amounted to only 500,000; in 184.5 it had • 1,600,000. But the 1.170 f trade and commerce was still more striking. 5 the exports of flour amounted to 96,000 barrels, while in 1840 they were 800,000, besides 500,000 barrels, which were detained in store at Montreal, owing to the freezing up of the St. Lawrence. But this was not all, for the impwts (rota the United Kingdom amounted to 9,000,0001. annually. The wages of labourers (and this had a material Dearing on the question of Irish colonisation) were 2s. 6d. and 2s. currency per day, besides lodging. Without violating the principle which he hail laid down for himself in the rrre*of his dress, he thought he might allude to the m M address, plans of emigration which had been brought before the home and the public. The first was that of Mr. Gibbon Wakefield, which wan, as it were, a self-supporting plan, by the sale of lands, and the ••tion of the proceeds to the emigration of labourers. He (Lord Lincoln) did not think this plan suited to Canada. The price of land in private hands was too low, and the labourers had facilities and temptations offered to go to the United States. Then there was the plan of Colonel Torrens, which was laid down in • pamphlet he had lately published, it being a modifica tion of that of Mr. Wakefield, and in which there was much to commend. It proposed that the expense of emi gration should be paid by annuity derivable from the capital invested in labour. He feared the operation of this plan would not be extensive or rapid enough for what thfrhad in view with regard to Ireland. Then there was the of the right hon. gentleman the Judge Advocate, w he brought forward an 1843, and which he proposed in order to obtain for Canada the benefits of the plan of Mr. Gibbon Wakefield, and which might be characterised as • plan foe the resumption of land from private partial In • manner not dissimilar to that adopted by the_ geveresent this year with regard to waste leads in IthissA. Another plan was that of Mr. Sullivan, • member et the executive council of Canada, which propelled that the t outlay should be repaid by the We of pleb of bad reserved and intermixed with thelgarMwis of the misebis. Then there was the plana's& in a pamphlet *dished by Mr. Godley, which lie later* of Inds* and Canada in view, was be give stimuli:is to the demand for labour in /Whir Nadi thdel. It proposed that for the hat the mists* Arabi week for w h aes d , and that on eitelsments they & re sold be nde g re attractive by era lOW sad eMllsed ofd, and by provision being made thdr are* and rend well-berg. Then there was the pica of the RAW earl at re Wed of the colonial department, tibia he priori OR the Nth of December, but which on mire osider bed beta abandoned. It pro. posed le WM altos dr migrate at the expense of lie poommor. a* Is rod them out at once and halts= by a spar el roastitoodat. He mentioned Ass plan ad will a view of *Ur advocating or lege. elating any the el dim, but .sly to show that there were pier, nth varying her tie *Oar, which ought to be ear aired by or eastedries whir was appointed. He Wild be allowed* and* ere plea which was not in print, r beim the pular and us which he wished to direct the attention of W geneamest. It must be in the knowledge el tie noble Lest the hied of the government, and of the bar prisms the Hader Secretary for the Colonies, that a wee prejaatad been Halifax to Quebec, which passed the centre of the province of Nova Scotia, through the Mart ad the worthies of New Brunswick I where there were upwards of 1,000,00114 scone ed Birdie land in possession of the government), and tam* potions of Lower Canada, along the line of the Si. Lawny" until it reached Quebec. It appeared to him (Lard Linda) that this railway might be made, not only of ineonomoi to the colonists, but of national importune both in • canntercial and military point of view. As mud* he sessmoroial value, it was well known that the raviotir hem England to Quebec, by the St. Lawman was wiry alreediewn besides, its danger sloug the there of Cape Bream, Than shipwrecks were constantly oscordles, owl any tsar by which it could be avoided would be et ormunereld advantage to the colonists. Then as regarded lb national yneqmce this railroad ran somewhat along the line of the , as settled by the treaty of Lid dabbwann, and 0171 41 —"" military ports would be established. The railway weedd be formed at a low price, as the land was to be bud kw nothing, and the sleepers to be obtained only for the cutting them down. Another dean tags would be gained by it—as long ago as in the discussion on the Quebec Btu, in 1791, Mr. l'itt and Mr. Burke appeared to contemplate measures for the amalgamation of those provinces, and their consolidation into one North American British possession; and nothing could 'mist this more than the establishment of this railway. The construe lion of the railway would else afford labour to emigrants, while these who were employed on it might at the same time be preparing the land on which they intended to settle. One important point in the considering the question of emi gration, was that of the expense. This he might evade, as hehad only brought forward • motion for inquiry; but at tt name time he felt bound to say that he was not one who believed that eolonisatien could be so effected as to cent nothing. It would not be right or candid in him to propose • =mean of this kind, and leave his opinion on this point ia the dark. He felt that the greatest good would be effected by colonisation but Its also believed that there must be out lay, and that large. He was not an advocate for trea sury grants or loans for this purpose. He had sliesdy stated what he apprehended would be the cost of • poor law is Ireland, and taking what was the largest amount of expenditure for colonnation, which was to bs looked at as capital, it would be a smell ISM compared to that which must be looked at as interest which must be paid for the population of Ireland. There were great differences of opinion on the question of the expense of emigration. By some it was mid that 251. a head was requisite for emigration to Canada, while by others it was to be dote for nothing, and try others at 4/. or 5/. • head. On this point Mr. Sullivan mid that "Mr. Smith O'Brien stated that Mr. Robinson's settlers cost 221. ahead, and if 51. a head was deducted for the muse, it left 171. for other expenses; but he was not afraid to say that a third of that sum was sufficient." It might be mid that if money, in the shape of grant or loan, was to be spent, it would be better spent in Ireland than in colonisation. It was only necessary; in answer to this, to look at the demoralising effect of what had been dons +1 Way in Ireland, and consider ones, sue moat.. spent on colonization tended to im prove the people and to change their habits; and while the expense of the maintenance of the poor in Ireland was ever recurring, in colonisation it was concluded at once. Few persons would be found to maintain that if there was to be expenditure it would soothe better to devote it to this pur pose than to apply it hereafter on public works for pummels of relief. He had seen it stated that an extended system d colonization to Canada was impossible, because the supply d food was not safticient ; but there had been a surplus in the supply of flour this year of two millions of barrels. Although ' there was sufficient freight to transport the average number of colonists that now emigrated (about 50,000 a-year), it was said there was not sufficient for any increased number ; and if there were any increase it would have a visible effect on the freights, which would rise se greatly as to add very muck to the expose, of emigration. In 1845, there were 1,505 ships, with a ton nage of 593,000 toss ; end, in 1846, there were 1,585, with a tonnage of 600,253 tons, which left the ports of Great Britain ▪ Ireland for Britis h North America in ballast. Taking the tonnage of the year 1846, it would give accommodation under the regulations of the Passengers' Act, to 363,000 emi grants, and even with a large deduction for the nnseaworthi nese of vessels, there would still be accommodation for about 300,000 emigrants. Besides this, 1,085 ships left the ports of Great Britain for British America with cargoes which might have carried passengers; and this was without taking into account the increased number of ships which were at tracted into the trade this year by the price of freight for corn. But without railing the price of the present freight, there would be ample accommodation for 300,000 emigrants. Another objection was, that the Irish made the wont col-- nists. If the Irish had been hitherto shovelled, as it had been called, out of estates, and that was the cause of their emigration, it was no wonder that they made bed emigrants. But he would nit if that was really the cue ? (Hear, hear.) Had it not been refuted by testimony and by facts ? Almost the only gratifying feature in the deep distress which had prevailed in Ireland was the large remittances which had hem sent from the other side of the water—(hear, hear)—by emigrants, to assist their friends in going over to America. No on., last year, had the question been asked, would have unfazed to name one-twentieth of the sum. This was a proof that the Irish, when removed from their own soil, and placed in a position to exercise their industry and talents, throve equally well with their fellow countrymen. But there were circumstances credit able n themselves to the Irish, which canoed them to Sock into the towns where they did not get be ond the condition of hewers of wood and drawers of water. They were unwilling to go into the wilderness where they would be far from the means of rel igious instruction. He believed that the character for indolence which was attributed to the people in the West and South of Ireland mem ham circumstances, and was not inherent. He samara) that it should be the opinion of some per .s* that than was such a difference between Celt and Mane.. (Nam, hear.) He did not admit it. lie would not say that there was no difference, or that the Celt might not be superior on one point, and the Saxon on the other, but he denied that there was any thing in the blood of the Celt which incapacitated him from industry in the colonies, or, certain external circumstances removed, in his own country. (Hear.) He might appeal to hon. members — and if the hon. member for Sunderland were in his place be would appeal to him—whether, on the great works with which he was connected, the Irish labourer was not one of the beet ; and he would ask other hon. members if, in fur vest time, the best labourer they could employ was not the Irish ? Such was his own experience. As he had seen this opinion ea to the unfitness of the Irish for emigration deli berately asserted in print, he was anxious to prove that that opinion did not exist in quarters where it would be mis chievous to the object he had in view he meant among the colonists themselves. There could be no higher authority on the colonial affairs of British North America than Chief Justice Robinson ; and he, in • letter addressed to Sir Robert Wilmot Horton, with reference to a pamphlet of his, published in 1839, speaking of the altered condition of the poor Irish since 1833, said to the following effect:—" That they had been raised in comfort and independence by the experiment of colounation, and that as a whole they were • valuable class of settlers, and a credit to the country they came from." He then spoke of their conduct in 1837 and 1838, by which they proved that they were not only iodus- ' trious, but loyal. He said, " All the population behaved well, English and Scotch, and some of the Americans, but it was universally felt that the conduct of the Irish as • body was pre-eminently good, and they did their duty with as eager forwardness. This male them feel painfully that they owed their misconduct when in Ireland to the circumstances of the country. They were worthy any effort to rescue them from them." Sir Wilmot Horton said, " That in a correspon dence he had with Sir Francis Head, he asked if the loyalty of the Irish continued, and Sir Francis answered in the affir mative and stated that some of them marched a hundred miles to support the government, and, on his thanking them, they replied that they were doing well in the world, and thought it their duty to come and fi ght for the British con - etitution." He could, if it were necessary, quote from the works of Capt. Hall to the same effect. Another complaint which was made against the colonisation of the Irish was, that emigrants mostly consist of the lowest class. He did not believe that if emigration was well organised, it would be so, although it had been. That was not the case with the colo nisation of former periods, and he need only refer to that which took plane under Penn in Biltimore. He believed that there was a project for colonisation by gentlemen, ac companied by artisans and labourers, to Vancouver's hand, and this was a sign that the early spirit of colonisation was reviving. Another and a very strong objection, if it was a valid one, was that the Canadians were opposed to an large colonisation of this kind. In the last few days had been obtained of the manner in which Mr. Godley's plan had been received in Canada. He (Lord Lin coln) admitted that, though the opinions of the press were divided on the subject, the greatest portion of it objected to the details of the plan. But they approved of an extensive emigration, if it was properly conducted; and his object now was, to see how it mil be properly conducted. (Hear, bear.) In the Thresh Globe of the Ist May it was said, that " if two millions elsmigraats were to come, they might, for there were millet= stems awash their arrival." The British Canadian she summed ' favourable to emigration Hemel art freebie bonze with %nota tions Mesa the same pamphist he had already mentioned, whishozpmed the Mimi tithe Canadians for emigration to the pen l eby mil VAS, 'but he would read one mime from an Mime delivered at the Mechanise Institute's Hall at Toronto, by Mr. Sullivan, the late preeideat of the Executive Council. It was to this effect Sediments need not be confined to that quarter of the emey, he between Lake Huron and the Ottawa there was men meant. There were provisions in Upper Canada be egret a million, and if 600,000 came it would still be as moseng asuntry." He (Lard Lineola) hoped he had esleliied Ses part of the ease, namely, that there was no sea objeglien in Canada leamfgestion, if it was pro- perly ocemianoiL If informations wee required on this pint, then was sew in this cemlay ea authority which no doubt the gememmeweeid simelles meant M r.Uniacke, the Atee=aral he the poseme et Nova Bootie. His milk thee elMe. Illeame, whin he (Lord =) had teal; sal he dulled a loge and intended esimintica, eaminted an nod sad new principles. Hs hal sow say nearly somiuded ; and he trusted it was ash seesesary for him spia M assure the hems that he led briseght hrward the metienterelly indeperiset Moak= kallog Omens?. (awe, beer.) He hoped holed the @mem whisk be made at the Mot ; and that he had not said anything, wt made any allusion, which would render it imi , t toe any ban. member to support the mo tion. Above all, be keeled that he had not given utterance to any medimet whiek vas obleallosable to any member et the imams* wt d ike Isom (Hear, hear.) If he should be tamed vie the meats OM he (the Earl of Lincoln) had sit bee hewed an pia et his own, he amid a AI rely repeat Mt be bed staltiouly av oided dein se ; his M to ine been the bone the plans whin hal hem des to p tin ben pr• audgeii by others, with • view d sides ir a saanhaa M be immend of Moe sr en saint partleal eta when services *MI be Meted le the investintlea et then plan. He Mini the appollemat el a nil esamina wink would had le ponied fast. sash a omit= as had bum mania by the revernamat d Ind Hainan to inquire bra the wain at the peer saws, sad et whisk esanbeisa Assbils Whitely had bem at the ban. He brought keyed this amia act with a view to a psspone ment of the Miest, bed with ties earnest hope that at as early • period as pmeile a gmestien of such vital impoetance es cola Anti set mimes M me the language et Lord the twain should Esselte thelf." (Hear, boor.) Neese than On ha lid est tusk, by the appoint seat of a nomainion, to wpm& debar the authority of the Oshwiel-olliee or of Ihe (Hear, hear.) Thanking the hale sincerely for the kind a ttention they had been pleased to show him, he should now place in the hands of the right. hon. gentleman in the chair, the motion which stood on the paper in his (the Hart of Lincoln's) name, with the greatest confidence that the house would adopt it, in the belief that, with other measures, colonisation must be the means of rescuing property is Ireland from ruin and confiscation, and, what wee far mare important, of rescuing the population of that comfy front that pestilence and famine which it bad pleased the Ales*ty in his wisdom to inflict upon them, and, by removing theta nun the country upon which this visitation had fallen, to plant them in a land in which they would find a better and a hap pier house. (Hear.) The noble lori concl7.3a.oving— " That an humble address be presented to her pray ing that she will take into her most gracious the insane by which colonisation may be made enteldiary to other measures for the improvement of the social eratition of Ireland ; and by which, cnasistently with full regard to the interests of the colonies themselves, the orenhet and mond prosperity of those who emigrate may be effectually pro- ifir.HA WES said the aoble lord had brought forward this important subject in the fairest spirit, and in a most comprehensive manner; and he (Mr. Hawes) should fail in his duty like omitted to meet the noble lord in the same frank and fair spirit of c►ndour which the noble lord had exhibited. The noble lord had opened the question in a THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 2, 1847. Becalms the right hon. gentleman says, that is the way in which the Germans conduct it. He says that although we fail in colossizatioe,our failure is not to be attributed to the change of times or eircumstances,because a neighbouring country does conduct it exactly on the principle of ancient tame, namely, by men of capital taking out whole villutes, accompanied by their spiritual directors, and thus giving the colony at once en te character. I think it is at least worth inquiry, whether or not we might adapt something of a simi lar plan. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentlemen's next argument was, that if my noble friend withdrew his motion, he would be only pursuing the course which has always been pursued with similar motions. He says that gentle men have been in the habit of bringing forward mo tions which disturbed the public mind, have shown themselves masters of the subject, led the public to believe that great advantaged were to be de rived, but at last hen) withdrawn tour mo ti ons in despair, in consequence of the ditcoungement thrown in their way by the government. The right hon. gentleman's mom stendatioa to my noble friend is, to follow io this Inter. track of all who Piave precerieU' :align) It appears to me to be a conclusive reason why we should depart from that track. (Hear, hear.) This right hon. gentleman pro ceeded to review the course of gentlemen who have success ively brought this question under the notice of the house. Firs; there was the scheme of the judge-advocate. He, according to the right hon. gentleman, laid down general principles, but the government challenged him to produce kis particular scheme. He was unwise enough to fall into the trap, his scheme was referred to the colonial office, where, with the aid of official and technical experience, it wag completely damaged in all its details. The right hon. gentleman blames my noble friend for taking warning from this example, and censures him for not having his plan ready—that plan which the honourable Under Secretary was also disappointed in not receiving. (Hear, and a laugh.) But my noble friend, taking warning by this example, sug gests only the appointment of &commission ; and let me re mind the house that there are now in this country able men from the colonies who could furnish such commission with valuable information. As to the objection that my noble friend's motioa might have the appearance of a cen sure on the Irish policy of the government, I trust we are not now going to abandon the temper with which Irish questions have hithe to been discussed in this house. We have fully recognised the difficulties under which the government labour, and even when they have failed we have attributed their failure to circumstances which it was impossible to cent:rout. It is not, therefore, likely that we should, just at the close of the session, bring forward a motion which could be fairly construed into a censure on their policy. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the noble lord at the head of the colonial department, as to his ability for forming a judgment on questions of this kind, I know no man on whom I should be lees willing to cast reflections, on the score of ability, than on that noble lord. (Hear, hear.) But the reason why the matter has not been proposed to him particularly is, that the overwhelming mass of official details render, such an inquiry as we want wholly impossible in the Colonial Office. The right honourable gentleman quotes Lord Grey. Now, if Lord Grey had been the proposer of a successful plan I could understand why his name should be introduced as a reason for not appointing this commission. But the right hon. geutleman says that the noble Secretary ler the Colonies proposed a plan of colonisation in December, which he was obliged to abandon in January. That is no reason why we should desist it only proves the great practical difficulty of dealing officially with this question. The right hon. gentleman turns next to the Irish members who are willing to contribute nine millions, end doubts their ability, under the responsibility of their heavy rates. I do not think they will be called on for anything like that amount. (Hear, hear.) It is unwise to sanune that Mr. Godlcy's plan is to be carried out to the full extent, but it is important in a discussion like this, to find that Irish members expect such immediate and future benefits from emigration, as to express their readiness to take upon themselves so large a portion of the charge. The right honourable gentleman, looking at the incum- Deuces on landed property in Ireland, doubts their ability to pay this nine millions. But hi it not possible to realise some advantage from the plan, even if it were made avail able to only 300,000 persons, instead of the 2,000,000 pro posed ? (Hear, hear.) If we locate that number in such a manner as to enable them to report favourably to their friends at home, we shall do ten times more good than we should if we sent the 2,000,000 out at once. (Hear, hear.) If you establish even 40,000 happily, you will have laid the foundation of much good for Ireland. I must here observe that it is most gratifying to see such large remittances coming from Irishmen in Canada and the United Stales to aid their friends at home in their diffi culties. (Hear, hear.) It is most honourable to their cha racter, and most encouraging to colonisation. (Hear, hear.) It shows that Irishmen, when planted in other countries, are not inferior as coloni sts to other men; nay, in Australia, as we are told, Paddy is called on to lead the way. (Hear, hear.) But I do not speak only of the Irishmen in the United States; I must also say that the conduct of the citizens of the United States in raising subscriptions for Ireland is in every way entitled to our gra titude. (Hear, hear.) Some persons may have done it for a mischievous purpose to make a parade, but much has been done in the most unostentatious manner. The committee of the society of Friends, sitting in Dublin, hare received supplies of food from persons in America, who never expected to have their names mentioned, to the amount of 57,000/. (Hear, hear.) My authority for this statement is Mr. Jonathan Pim, a gentleman entitled to all respect for his exertions to relieve Irish distress. (Hear, hear.) I do trust that the noble lord opposite will, in considering this motion ' bear in mind the conduct which has been pursued towards him and his government, and, if he have any doubt, give the benefit of it to this in quiry. I do assure him that if its success were to be looked upon as a triumph over the government, I should not receive it with any satisfaction. I do intrcat the noble lord to con sider the demands likely to be made on the property by the poverty of Ireland. I do entreat him to look at the chance of the government being forced to the alternative of sternly enforcing the law, or of abandoning all chance of re turn of the money which has been advanced fur Ireland. I do not wish that country to be taught that she is te draw on England in her difficulty, and when the pinch comes to be relieved from her obligation. I should object to it less for the loss of the money than for the moral consequences. (Hear, hear.) It is not fair to this kingdom. (Hear, hear.) 1 would rather give a specified sum at once, than lend with an implied understanding that the loan was never to be reclaimed, I tremble for the demands which will be made on Irish property for some time to come. I believe that the country wants a stimulus, and I think it worth while to in quire whether some means may not be found to employ and provide fora portion of the people. On one side we have a large population without employment or subsistence, and on the other we have magnificent colonies almost without population. We want now to know whether something may not be done to relieve Ireland by promoting emigration to our colonies. Your own agents—men upon whom you say yowc an depend —declare that emigration originates in Ireland. Let us, then, have the system carefully watched, and let us see if we may not promote such a wholesome emigration to the Crusades and to New Brunswick, as is said to be going on to South Australia. The hon. gentleman opposite says that SontbAustralia failed at first; but you have since appointed a governor who has converted a body of despetr t ng paupers into a contented and even affluent population. Why may we not have similar results in the Canadas ? Captain Grey is a good man and an able officer, but surely, in the range of the subjects of the Queen, we can readily find other Capp44tann • Greys. Yon have Lord Elgin now in the Cenadae— you admit his appointment to have been a good one. Make the passage cheaper—make better regulations—provide some security (or employment for the emigrants on their arrival, and I do believe that you will have a better chance of success in emigration to the tausedu than you can possibly have in emigration to Australis. I say nothing, air, of former opinions. I believe it is now open to the noble lord volun tarily to defer to what is the general sense of the house on this subject ; and I do trust he will enable us to try if we cannot, at this imminent crisis, arrive at some plan for the relief of Ireland by the remove' of her redundant population, and byplacing them in our colonies in a position maculated to ensure their affectionate attachment to their queen and to the country to which they naturally belong. ( Cheep.) Lord J. RUSSELL—I am apprehensive that the spirit of the right hon. gentleman and the course which I shall take to-night may, when cont rasted with the speech of the Judge Advocate General, and of Lord Stanley, upon a former oseito sion, give some confirmation to the opinion which bee bees expressed this evening by the hammember fee Nartinsepina. I shall certainly regret it that hen. umber's numb ere so confirmed ; but I het bound bp do infornatiee ft ergy dis posal, and by the montnitiss I have had of weighing net information, to naafi the seeddleeeisme width suer tow me haying taken Lbsts wilt germ* to colons sties. I skall reel enter Into the trnornie noble lord's splash, relative to the number of in Ireland. As his preyed refers to the aim beirtre Woe, I shall at one. p that part nth, nilden. I nut ern, that I think the aside lord took a view mei* was ream water to the government to which M kinneVilmiseged, a well as to the gee/numb; whir-km*BolBlml Mowed it. his Wand is not one, @eke onnern. tiblik los boas mini, aigiseteg. a 1 aoc t lea= meawreeema peen Itwobsea to severe Sr o 1' a embodied population ilimenr AWOL til lbw aipste.., we have three cennimanne employed in the service, watching the NNW of emigration, and takfag ears that it is ceednend a olootolly as possible for than who have the nem se eke en willing to emigrate. ' This. agents take the gannet inn to provide the tallest informed= be parties WWI arrive, with a view to embark Mon *Mir respective pens. So far as to the auras Vim with reopen to emigrants from Annie mamma But in the minks we also take peosolionip maw. We hate mmmmmby which the sick ethigmeles tike my be loaded alma a a* ' are cared ter in pews Inopinio i one tau lime men e by which those who are able to proend 010 INVIIMIId lean their journeys to than points whew fink Meer is likely to be of the most value, and wham lisp nia mot likely immediately to obtain regular and angle names of subsistence. It is not true, therefore, that this quads, of emigration has been neglected by the go anent or by the parliament of the country. Let us now consider how the means are fur nished far emigration in cases where the government and the legislature have not _provided the n funds. Many emigrants , it is needless to say, go out on t air own resources; others are provided with funds by their land lords; whilst a third class—and they compose a large body this year—go out with funds provided for them by relatives and friends who hare already emigrated, and who desire that they should join them. I understand that no lees the 200,0001. has been sent to the United Kingdom this year with this object. (Hear, hear.) It is appare n t, therefore, that great funds are available for purposes of emigration, and indeed it is declared that this year no less than 120,000 per sons have proceeded from our shores to the United States and to British North America alone. That of itself is a con siderable emigration, and one which should make us look carefully after the security of those who go out. But, whilst intoner that would enable a dismission to follow upon it, which sh•uld out exhdiit the characteristics of party feeling. (Hear, hear.) The proposition now made was intended as an auxiliary to the pow-law recently adopted by the legida tine for the relief of the poor of Ireland ; but in this respect the intended auxiliary would fail, because the very class of the Irish population who would emigrate—nundy, the able bodied, was the very_clus which it was desirable to retain in the country. He (Mr. Hawes) would yield to no man in his earnest and anxious desire fur au extensive system of coloni. lotion. In general principles he agreed with the noble lord, and only differed with him as to the expediency of issuing such a commission as that which the noble lord proposed. There was no analogy between the poor-law commission, to which the noble lord had adverted, and !bat which the noble lord sought to have appointed ; hicause, in the former case, the information ntLeas iry and desirable to he obtained could be ttiorded on the spot in this country, while, in the latter case, information must be looked for from abroad. But he held, and should show, he hoped satisfactorily to the house, that inquiry was wince-emery. The noble lord had secured to himself an advantage, by not having suggested any Om of his own, or having adopted any of the numerous projects which, in past years, had been brought under public notice. Neither had he given any opinion upon the plan of Mr. Godley, which might be supposed to have been the origin of the present motion. All the new plans in reference to colo nisation were wholly different from those upon which the chartered colonies had been founded and conducted. Hitherto, the colonies had been founded and carried out with great success, entirely by the energy, enterprise, and public spirit of individuals. Oa the other hand it was re. mukable that all the various new plans to which the noble lord had drawn attention, rested entirely upon large grants of public money being afforded to carry them out, and it was said that if the government refused these grants, they ought to be taunted - with being indifllrent to the im portant question of colonization. At the present moment emigration by the voluntary agency of individuals was proceeding at a rate, and to an extent that was surprising, and he (Mr. Hawes) apprehended that even if the govern meat commenced such an inquiry as that which the noble lord asked for, such a procedure would materially affect the extent to which voluntary emigration was now going on. He hardly thought the aoble lord or the house was aware of all that had been done of late years by successivz govern ments with reference to the great question of colonization. A review of past circumstances would show that neither this house nor any government had been indifferent to the progress of colonization and emigration. (Hear, hear.) This renew would exhibit that the principles of eminent men who had written on the subject, had more or less been adopted, and earned into practical effect, and at the present moment little remained to be done, unless parliament and the country were prepared, by a large grant of public money, to carry out a greater scheme. The noble lord asked for a commission of inquiry. There had already been numerous inquiries. In 1826 and 1827 inquiries had been instituted into the plans of Sir Robert Wilmot Horton, and those ' plans had been carried out at the coetof 221. to 231. of locating each emigrant. This was followed by the inquiry of which the Duke of Richmond was the head, in 1836, and next by a committee of this house in 1842. From these inquiries various plans had been propounded; and he (Mr. Hawes) could show how ready every government had been to adopt any well-considered system of emigration and coloniaation. It was therefore idle to say that by any government the subject had been treated with indifference or neglect. So the plan of Mr. G. Wakefield had been carried out, and by these means a great amount of emigration to Australia had been effected. In the same manner the emigration board had been consti tuted, and assistance had been afforded in furtherance of emigration to Canada, conformable to the recommendations contained in the appendix to Lord Durham's report. He mentioned these facts to show, first, that the subject was one which did not call for inquiry ; and, secondly, that every succeeding government had shown its readiness to carry into effect every practicable plan that had been suggested. The emigration which had taken place since the commission had been established had been enormous. In the last ten years, nearly 100,1)00 persons had emigrated to the Australian role nice; and to the North American colonies, the number, in the same space of time, had been 740,000. Of the 100,000 who had gone to Australia, 80,000 had been carried out by the means afforded by the sales of land, and the remaining 20,000 had gone out entirely at their own cost and expense. In the Australian group of colonies returns showed .most satisfactory advance in the amount of population and ex ports. In 183.5 the populati,n was 102,900, in 1845 it amounted to 295,976 ; in 1835 their exports were 1,004,0001., and in 1845, 2,175,0001. This was an unexampled proof of prosperity. Again, with reference to emigration to Canada the government had not Diet sight of the interests of the emigrants. This year an additional 10,0001. had been voted for emigration agents, who received and protected emigrants on their arrival, and directed and forwarded them to districts where labour was in demand. Hence emigration was not so devoid of system as the noble lord seemed tosuppose. The noble lord had perhaps wieely omitted to notice Mr. God ley's plan, but he (Mr. Hawes) could not allow that plan to pus without some observation. The plan had been put forward with a good deal of manifestation of a note of pre paration. It had been forwarded in the shape of a memorial to the prime minister, and sent out to attract notice in Canada. In Canada, speaking on better authority than the Canadian newspapers, he could state that the au thorities were unfavourable to Mr. Godley's plan. Could any one imagine that such a scheme would be advan tageous? And yet this was the scheme which had hitherto mainly occupied public attention. Looking at all these facto, and at the great stream of emigration now going on, he feared that the proposed inquiry would tend rather to cheek it than otherwise, and would be most prejudicial to Ireland. It would also prejudice one important species of funds now available for the purposes of emigration. In a letter from the emigration agent at Montreal, written on the 7th of last month, it was stated that settlers in the Canada were much in the habit of remitting money to this country to pay for the passage of their relatives, and that if government aid were afforded for that purpose, it would materially tend to ' check the disposition thus evinced. Between 3,0001. and 4,0001. had been thus remitted to this country ; and it was mist important that nothing should be done to dry up the source of voluntary emigration. Whatever inq=t s eet place, it must be a protracted oae ; and what were te and the Irish to do in the mean time ? Already 1 11.7,000 pewees had emigrated in the present year, and the stream was still going on : let the legudatare beware of doing any thing to check it. (Hear.) Concurring with the noble lord in his general views as to the importance of colonisa tion he could not but feel that the existing Mats; of the money market presented an obstacle to any government aid being afforded. As to New Zealand, much had been recently done to render that colony desirable ; the granting it a constitution was a most important step, and a bill had been some time in consideration for giving representative governments to our Australian colonies. (Hear, hear) All this tended to encourage emigration, and was much more important than sending out a few ship loads of men. (Hear, hear.) But the main object of the noble lord (Lincoln) seemed to be to ascertain whether government was really devoting its attention to this subject. It was well known that government could obtain all necessary informa tion much earlier than any commission; and emigration was now going on under the existing system much mare effectually than at any former period. Recollecting the feasible plan which had barn framed and matured some years ago by the hon. member for Liakeard, and the serious objections by which it was met in Canada, he felt convinced that the interests of emigration could not be promoted by govern ment laying down abstract plans. Calms the commission could devise the means of providing adequate funds for emi gration, their inquiries would be utterly fruitless. The means of benefiting the colonies by promoting emigration now occupied the most assiduous attention of the noble earl at the head of the colonial department, who had every die position to weigh the merits of any scheme that might be proposed. Under existing circumstances, he hoped the noble lord opposite would not press his motion, but would be satis fied with the assuminge that the subject would receive the utmost attention from the colonial department. Yr. GREGORY said the present motion had not ben salmllled with any hostile feeling towards the government, bet eddy in toe hops of assisting in the alleviation of the dillsellies of Ireland ; he therefore regretted that the hos. geniensa who had just addressed the loam had met the miss with a direst negative. No, se a ; has Wig Ismodunns the minis ) Is the existing state et to Wand, the whole therm of snaky being broken up, hand of a nmemniml wee required to remould and settle it ; od =lleelesintime might ra re effect all that be seeded, it 11:ela_a powerful auiliary, and would be prothetive eremite width the measures of the govennesat Maine arant thil to attain. .; 1 7. SMITH said the great objection to the of the noble lord was, that it exhibited as perd P is re rris: whereas, from a p of the noble lord's high char andacter noth asses ing d h e m o should havee n e e= i t ef aan i e:Z . dell of oolosimeion, but there was nothing in the theorise he developed which, in point of fact, was seionsatices. • He did not conceive that the people of Englund, who had so liberally gins their maims to Ireland, with a view to raise bar hies bee dote of degmemion by one great exertion, would bites to any other imminent, mush less a vae one, until the ex perimat than o& emented to make had been fairly tried. Sir Z. PEEL •. tank that all the arguments which could egoism the motion of my noble friend, may be to have bees adduced by the right hon. gentleman has just sat down, one who is perfectly acquainted with all the details of colonial business, and who has also had the advantage of retirement from dace to enable him to consider the question. (A laugh.) lie has brought to the question all the aatAseaa of official experience with the inestimable advantage of lei sure for reflection. (Laughter.) I shall take the right has. gentleman's objections in order. First of all, the right boa. gentleman says that the party in opposition always take up this question, making plausible speeches about colonisation, but when they get into office they make speeches against it, it dwindles down to emigration, and all the ' raises resolve themselves into • very small and buff= certainty. But what is the reason ? Why, that case is so burthened with details, its holders have no time to make the proper inquiries. (Hear, hear.) The right hes. gen tleman says that Lord Ilowiel and several others have hen Teaches which have created a great semation on etdoeins two, but in office have done nothing, Is it not time that we should adopt another system ? (Hear, hear.) Is it not time, if the scheme is rea lly impracticable, that it should be conclusively proved so, and that the alternation which the right hon. gentleman describes between promise and per formance should cease. (Hear, hear.) The second argu ment of the right hon. gentleman was, that in this country we conduct emigration very badly, that we leave it to loth. vidnals, who go to a desert country, and that colonization by individuals is no colonization on the principle on which it used to be conducted, namely by a person of distinction going out, surrounded by his dependants, and forming a regular colony. He says that each was the practice in ancient times. Is it impossible now, is it not worth in quiry? (Hear, hear.) Why should we think it impossible ? we do so, we must bear in mind that however we may view this emigration in England, it is not regarded with entire i satisfaction upon the other side of the Atlantic. (Hear, hear.) I mention this more especially, because when we I come to di cuss a particular motion of this sort, it is of peculiar importance that we should not indispose the North Americans (whether the people of the United limbs, ar of our own colonies), to receive I emigrants, by forming the notion that we are get ting rid of the rubbish of our population, and not allowing those to proceed who, under other circumstances, we should not gladly retain in our country. In the United States we have lately seen measures taken of a very stringent nature, requiring owners and masters of ships bringing emi grants to enter into securities—nor for months, but for years—that they should not become chargeable to the relief of the poor. These steps have been taken in Boston and New York, and, no doubt, their tendency is to check immigration. The Governor-General of Caned:, in a letter which I have seen, state' to my nob' :riend to the effect that the Cana ciistia; great confidence in the are and prudence of their neighbours in the United States, are thinking whether it will not be proper for them to establish similar checks upon the influx of emigrants as have the people of that country. Then what it the testimony of the governor of New Bruuswick and the governor of Nova Scotia ? The go venter of Nova Scotia, in • letter to Lord Grey, said, " ex treme privation and misery would undoubtedly ensue to those emigrants who come here, and have not the means of supporting themselves for two years at least." They must not rely on the assistance of their friends who have come out before them, for they will often be found in as much need as themselves. Then the governor of New Brunswick, in a recent despatch, said, "a measure has been submitted to the legislature to provide for the allocation of everyd ce n conduct emigrantso,it on t o coincideh ei r labours b he g u . t appointed to inquire into the subject, whisk committee h v w e eas F n a m dall e an n ' t is , wi th 'thsn e measure was abandoned, and a committee re ported that though employment might be given in the culti vated districts to some extent, there would be greet dull cultiee attending the employment of labourers in the back woods; and the despatch concludes, " I have no expectation that any considerable number of emigrants would find employ ment in this colony." We have, then, the fact on the one hand, that emigration is being carried on to an unusual extent During the months of May and June the greatest amount of emigration takes place, and we have the account up to the middle of May, showing that 120,000 persons have emi grated un to that time ; and there is every reason to believe that the emigration of this year will not fall much below 200,000 in numbers. (Hear.) And, on the other hand, we have the fact of the restrictive laws which have been enacted by the United States, and the testimony of the Governors of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, and of the Governor- General of Canada, stating that while there is a disposition on the part of those colonies to receive emigrants with kindness, there is reason to believe that employment cannot be provided for them on their arrival in these provinces, and a doubt is expressed whether any facilities sho uld be given to their introduction. Under these circumstances I should be sorry to countenance the notion that we were about to proceed with some vast plan which would throw a large number of emigrants at once, not on the shores of the United States—for thus laws have been passed to prevent their arrival—but on the shores of the British American provinces, which have as yet made no similar laws ; and I hope the house will agree with me, that in whatever vote we may come to ,or whatever resolution we may pam, it would be most unwise, and in the end obstruct the object which the noble lord has himself in view, if we were to give countenance to the opinion that we were about to give effect to come very extensive scheme, founded chiely on our desire no longer to be burdened with a number of poor persons who have not the means of subsistence in this country, and not with the view of combining their advantage with the advantage of the colonies at the same time. (Hear, hear.) After stating this, I must remind the house that the plan of Mr. Godley, which was recommended to me for consideration —not for adoption, I must my—by a memorial, signed by several persons of influence, and which I was given to under stand au to be the foundation of the noble lord's motion, though I find he has, with great discretion, not adopted it — (hear, hear)—Mr. die'', in his plan, states: " Little real or permanent good can accrue to Deland unless, during the next three or four years, two millions of people proceed from theme to Canada and the British American pronoun" What would be the result if such an opinion went abroad, as that we were about to adopt a scheme for sending forth so large a portion of the population of Ireland to a place where it is evident there would be no employment for them ? (Hear, hear.) Desti tute as those persons are here, there surely would be no humanity or policy in sending them destitute and to be beggars on the other side of the Atlantic. (Chun.) There is one consideration connected with this subject which has been well stated by my noble friend the Secretary for the Colonies, in a despatch to the Earl of Elgin, which will be laid on the table, dated the Ist of April, and which is worth attention. He says " It is impossible to read the accounts by recant writers of the lives of settlers in the backwoods without being struck with the hardships and difficulties endured by them—the greatwaut of labour, from the absence of means to give it efficiency by combination—we find bread often in dear where corn is cheap, owing to the distance of the mills, the want of roads, and the ab sence of forges for the manufacture of implements, Bcc." There are really true acd practical observations. No doubt them wants may be remedied, but not in the course of two or WIN years, and no one can expect that the government sirs= provide blacksmiths' forges, mills, and roads in the dish= esWeinents of Canada. Even the provincial govern moot mold not be expected to do this, and it would be im psalblo for the government at home to do so. But the pseinal progress of civilisation, combined with the ;low of oodgration, will remedy these wants, gradually, certainly, and successfully, in the same way ea it has been dose in the United States and elsewhere. But when • neatlemen, looking only at the present condition of Ireland, says there are two millions of people here who must be conveyed from hence to a distant part of the world in the mane of three or four years, he forgets that it is not prac ticable to do so in the time, and likewise provide for them the means of carrying on the ordinary employment of trade and asriculture. (Hear.) This is a reason, not against the can alisation of means of colonisation, but it is a reason why those who have to bear a part in the government of the eenatry, and those who take a leading part in the debates of ggs house, should avoid holding out the expectation a which some of these writers have indulged in ; and why we should be cautious when we as,, it is our wish to colonisation, and agree with the noble lord that ria l to a useful subsidiary to a Poor Relief Act, that we do not at the same time hied these people to imagine that the tan afford to provide shipe to i carry them annul they Atlantic to a country where ey may live n peace and plenty, or say to the people of North America, whose inter ests we are bound to regard, or to the people of the United Bates, who have behaved so nobly to us—(hear) " We will transfer these destitute people to your shores, not caring what mischief we inflict upon you by so doing." (Hear, hoar.) Upon the motion of the noble lord I have a remark to make, founded upon the despatch (which will be laid before the house) written by my noble friend at the head of the colonies, and.which would impose on me great difficulties if it were my inclination to oppose this address of the noble earl's. My noble friend, in his despatch to Lord Alga says, " I have only to add that her Majesty's soars mat share in the desire which has been =premed to pro. mote the adoption of some well-considered plan of Mimi= don to British America, believing it would be attended with great benefit both to the colonies and the mother country." Sark Is say noble friend's declaration of the wish of the go verment, in the despatch dated 4th April, 1847. The noble earl's address prays her Majesty to take into her most gra ding consideration the means by which coloasation may be made salmidiary to other measures for the improvement of the soda condition of Ireland; and by whisk, con- Masa* with fall regard to the Inaerseis hi t the Monies themselves, the comfort end of those who emigrate may be .1 Now, elr, the government having dashed fo be their wish. sad =be, if it be the pleasure d Ilms loess to inn eiats themselves with that wish and dies mg to *Woe their readiness to assist the crown in the It MUM to Maio As object, I cannot resist the et the tadls lord. (Hoar, hear.) But the nettle hell bee not did that inteepestalloo gra the mak= and If I do not vas against it, I anet ha mama= not is waft Is his sapreta tion. The noble Wei premed aematien to make briber inquiry as to the came, et eskohettee which elsdld be adopted Now, with regard to the Shah —eD that Nair to If destitution—we have and it is unn searry and with respect to Se bail: the I should connive that Or Mrs wwhisk Nect obtained, and which Teliais Is be °balsa, we mut from the British Amerind (Hear, hear.) The only question is how it is to . I think it wee lig Godley who proposed that a commissioa should ip ovor owl inquire. I suppose it wax meant that the ammassaof unpaid commission should go over and bid medley in Canada and the other provisos. the pins et colonisation proposed, and elk t itstraeb Ile at m. Tina such a plan, nothing could be wee saeatYidsey, Penns se caged together, not having the reirmasibility of leghlaters, could, on the faith of the epode. by which they wen in trodueed, carry the resolution pet bane them, of the taxes they mightmean. err basnanienZ al tE might inflict. But if you map wish for peed valuable opinions, you should take int thaw of snob Ewa as I know of no man more capable than Lewd Elgin of plaiting =fon th inch m thathe meu e Ppgonnti res 7veernnual ;E : d fn"per 2 lictho re; ahn l adadaotuilestiHeirnearldsofladdigail)--thwundid44:nb:a views of a th i r i loco of the executive council, • body composed of persons Cli greet experience as to the settlement of emigrants, and the mode of employing labourers in clearing lads; and, next, the opinion of the provincial assemblies. Eat how can you obtain this? Not by a new commission; for what authority would they have te hamaire It is necessary that any such inquiry should some from the crown, or from those organs of the crown in the previa*, who are accustomed tio transact business with the isgislative and executive bodies. In that respect the appolatniont at a commission would not answer the papas which the noble lord has in view. But would it sneerer the par eiabFereoixtfpeilrginuiegerarY.,inwthillio Yw ha r e u e tryh be av in thrb iLthli th aill""allaMi t= "l assives site%waskiar-I year after year to this subject, who are in possesion of all this or dinary information, and who can all upon ma et preedial weight and authority, many of them connected with dif ferent land societies, for any special information that may be required. But there is another objection to the appointment of • new commission. The noble lord has referred to several plans. I do not think that those plans constitute very encouraging precedents for the noble lord ; for although most of them were framed by persona of considerable talent, yet when they came to be examined by men of practical authority they were shown to be unfitted for the object of sound colonisation. (Hear, hear.) A better speech on the subject of colon ‘ .l [loll thee that which my right hon. friend, the Judge-Atha-de, made when he was sitting on the opposite side of the home, I never heard in my life; but when his plan seas sent to Canada, it underwent revision by Lord Metcalfe, who alter. wards gave reasons which satisfied Lord Stanley and his colleagues in the government, that such a plan ought not to be adopted. (Hear, hear.) Again, my noble friend the pre sent Secretary of State for the Colonies, soot. alter be came into office, proposed a plan of colonisation: that plan was sent to persons connected with the colonies, who pi ntail out faults in detail, and the great expense that must ari a from establishing the villages in contemplation; and th e result was, that my noble friend saw that the ect j _pro co u ld not succeed, and at once abandoned it. Mr. Godley'e s e l se has been pretty generally condemned both in mein ; and in Canada If you het a Separate tZiamiraiOn, haying' been specially appointed to frame a plan of colonisation, Nina not having laccd oa their shoulders the respon s ibi li t y o f asking par liament for financial resources for this object (hear, hear) and entertaining the highest opinion of the wisdom of these unknown gentlemen (Laughter.) I think they would frame a very tine paper plan—(hear, hear),—involving a cost of some millions, sad then leave it to the government of the day either to prope l , to parliament the means of defraying that cost, or the option of refusing to act upon the recommendations given. For these reasons, even if a resolution for an addresa I.e adopted, I think it far better that, fur the present at least, the pen, peeing of a plan should be left in the hands of tke executive government. lam quite prepared to say what, indeed, my noble friend has already said in his despatch, that we wish to adopt some well-considered and systematic plan of colo nisation in British America. (Hear, hear.) We are quite ready to direct the Governor of each of the British American colonies to consult the legi,iatire and executive bodies as to the plans which would be most useful in the colonies, and to which they would moss readily lend their aid; and let me say, I believe that unless you have their aid and assistance, and, in fact, their hearty co-opera tion, no plan which you cm adopt would be. satisfactory. I should be quite ready to lay the whole result of the recom mendations on the table of the house, and to give the opiaiea of the government on the subject in another session e, pe n liament. I suppose the noble lord does not expect—h e L. fat too able and discreet to expect—that any plan should be adopted in the present session—(hear, hear)—or that we should attempt to check that stream of emigration which is flowing so plentifully towards British America and other colonies. Of all the plans which have come under consider ation, that which appears to me the . ,,mag practicable, is that of aiding and assisting in the conson of puelie waits in those provinces to which the emigrants are likely to be directed. But Ido not think the adoption of such a plan depends merely on general maxims, or abstract policy on the subject of emigration. I think, that at this particular time, with the difficulties of the money market—with the im mense absorption of capital for railroads in the Unites King. dom, to ask this house for some fresh drain of money, some large division of capital, in order to aid public works 311 Britieh North America, would be to make a most inoppirtuae and unreasonable proposal. Such a proposal is not be maimed merely by abstract reason or justice, but is to be cousidered with reference to the particular time at which it is made; at the same time I contend that is principle it is far better than many of those plans of making villages aid settling small communities in them ; and this I say, not ou accowit of any reasoning of my own mind on the subject, but be cause it is the universal testimony of all who are acquainted with the progress of colonisation in North America. It is truly said that if you send out able-bodied men who can earn wages whether - ' by labour, in trade, on roads, or on public works, and who, by obtaining good wages, come in time to buy their little property, those men will do well ; you will find them useful settlers end good subjects, and they will promote civilisation in the colony, But if you send them out at once, with all the habits which they have formed in the United Kingdom, to the backwoods of Canada, you will fled them so disappointed by the diffi culties which they meet with, such as that of having a spade mended or corn ground, that instead of a primmer village being created, the settlement will perhaps be deserted. I agree with my noble friend in a statement contained in his despatch, that great as would be the adras tages of suck a measure, they would be lees than the evils which would follow from the hasty adoption of an ill-matured and impracticable scheme, and that it would not be practica ble to proceed without the hearty co-operation of the provin cial legislature. lam quite ready to consent to An address nearly in the words of my noble friend's despatch, but I can not advise the crown to appoint a commission for this special object ; for my opinion is, that the effect would be to give rise to extravagant expectations 'on one side of the Atlantic, and to extravagant apprehen sion' on the ether. I think that the commission, after going through many ill-digested schemes, would lay before us a plan, which, however specious in appearance, would hardly bear the sifting of practical men ; and I hold, there fore' that it is far better that the subject should he left in the hands of the executive government. At the sines time I fully concur in the noble lord's object. I quite admit the ability, temper, and moderation of the speech in which he introduced his motion, and I give him the fullest credit for not wishing to embarrass the government, or to throw any party obstacles in its way, and for being artaated solely by a desire to aid in releasing the tourney from the mighty difficulties by which it is encompassed. (Hear.) Mr. G. W. HOPE said he had looked with sonic alarm upon the emigration which had been going on for the last year, fearing, as he did, that it had gone on without any reference to the means of employment or subsistence (Hear) He did not believe, with the noble lord opposite, that the appointment of a commission would, in the slightest degree, tend to stop the stream of emigration now going on from Ireland ; but he thought it probable that, unless some good provision were made for the employment and maintenance of those who emigrated, the voluntary emigration of this year would destroy that of subsequent years. Mr. HUME said that the whole mistake of the debate was in considering colonisation applicable to Ireland only, and not to England and Scotland. He believed that one great preventive to colonisatthn was the manner in which the colonies were governed. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL was glad that something was to be done on this subject, but the believed that the credit of whatever was done would be due to Mr. Godley, who had been so much censured for the part which he took with regard to so important a subject. Lord J. MANNERS said, there was one observatioa re peated twice by the noble lord (J. Russell) with reference to the plan of Mr. Godley which required remark. He said that plan would throw two millions of emigrants destitute at the 'bores of America. Nothing in Mr. Galley's pamph lets or plan could warrant reach observations, and the accuse tion was perfectly unfounded. Sir W. JAMES wished to understand if any special in quiry would be directed to the subject? Lord J. RUSSELL said, there would be special liquifier, but not by a special commission. Sir W. JAMES, in supporting the motion, said, that the noble lord by refusing to consent to the words of this motion, and agreeing to ita principle, had got rid of it by a side-wind. After a few words from Mr. F. Scorr and Mr. AOLION The Earl of LINCOLN said that if this debate had stood in the position in which it had been left at the close of the speech of the hon. member the Under Secretary for the Co lonies (Mr. Hawn), he should have felt it necessary to have addressed some observations in reply to the hon. member, but as the noble lard at the head of the government bad acceded to his (the Earl of Lincoln's), MAIM, he did set think it necemory that he should trouble the house with any observations in reply. It had been said that themetita was thus got rid of by a side wind. If the noble lord et the head of the government, in adhering to the VMS tithe motion, intended to avoid its spirit and intent, he (thaw , of Lincoln) was not answerable. It was not for him to ler pow what advice the noble lord, as tint minister of the Crown, would tender to her Majesty in reference to die addreM, any more than he could imagine who might bo commissioners who might be appointed. However, ha (the Earl of Lincoln) adhered to the views he had endeamerei to explain to the house at en earlier period of the evesiode and he was not without hope that this &curial "maid ime to some good result, and that through it the goverammt would be led to pay more attention to the important me* to which it referred, than otherwise would have bees the case. The motion was then put and agreed to. WARMINSTER UNION. Mr. BOUVERIE rose, and wee promoting to mere kr copies the correspondence between the guardians at at eradiates' Union sad the Poor-law Comouroonsta tire to the iefueal of the vicar of the parish to perfots the banal service over the corpse of Sarah Garrett, • eloPir. when An How. Mmunia moved that the house be conatod• Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and only 31 mem ben being found to be present, the house at one.tieloth stood adjourned to 12 o'clock this day. ght epprtoo. NAHA Mr Erik kr &Mkt North Arnim lortheth ad thi ad" kerma vill bens& op ea the theskerth Sethi thou The thetheal mak kr Otheethir.thelthereath the kuksithele atAAMOth maileihsludth.thaelPgthethothithir. the frothalth.th iris up therthathettie nee Jar The was kr the athelth,the Etter rtria L lgethe We% reol . ' =sraludethe• ethl Imo Ayreg. mu' be seeds or aft st no Mai tee Opethe. libeu, Madeira, Caths, sad maim all le mak au ea me athraleth el the Ith June. The eastked dead s. Illthealka to the Mellealthole =srV MIK Lea ku, Mirth v. Ibe din Jima The eth or% sethetheth them ter Make, Meamili 101 the Illseemeb. be male Ith ea Se itheibietthe 17tb Java Ike math kr New &nth Wake, its Dienthe's look Nth thrkalleth be mode up ea thee rething et AO Seth kw. NIGH RATA AT LCHIDON-1111DGE. ego 133,-14traira MI NIA past 3; Aftuessas, 19 3113. Plo t. T&lTAanotr —Mamba SI Ms. pot 4 ; Altenesso. 39 itgA. 3 44, . LONDON WEDNESDAY, JUNE 2. SMALL minds like to rail at great things. Thy pettiness is relieved by antagonism with !bat is massy and reepectable. Small wits are g iven to be freethinkers, and to rail at Providence. Others abuse women, and are sublimely vindic tive and severe againd the weaker sex. To single out a nation as an object of hatred an ow tempt, is a choice expedient with some political writers. To spit upon the Frenchman, shed ribald'', upon the Yankee, and anathematise the Jraahman• decidedly the shortest path to the s evere and the sublime. Nothing can be more easy, no essay at clog* Judge guar iugs woul ben, Celt this civic Sir 1 the 1 then the fain tine the why from won out or h Ix , si, \