The Express. — London, England, 1848-08-17 00:00:00

IMI'EItIAL I'ARLIAMEN't. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNESDAY, At*. 16. The arzhasa took the chair at 12 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. =RD READlNO..—E..woctl'a (or Alderson's) Estate Bill' PUBLIC BUSINES.,. FIRST RF.ADlNO.—Unlawful ROCieließ (Ireland) Bill. CUM MIT:ITV-- Metropolitan Comniirsions of Sewers Bill. THIRD It EADlNGS.—alilitia l'ay ; Out Pensioners; Patonhial Debt and Audit; Sheep, Ste. Importation Prohibition; Tithe Bad Charm. he. (Ireland, No. 2) ; Bu 11. PY:TITIONS.—By Sir It. INGLIS, from Toughal, praying that the bonne would &Mani it to be an net of high Heaton to agitate question the of the repeal of the union by open or ganisations or confederatima; alto a: petition from a place Warwiclothiro ogainst the support given to the temple of loggertmut. Mr. HENLEY, from Cornwall, siruhist the reduction of the duties on copper and lead.—Mr. LOCKHART, from a place in Scotland. against the Scotch Marriage and Registration Bill. —Lord A. from Brighton, In forum of vote by banot.— Kr. DUNCHNIIIR, from a place in Yorkshire , against the sale of Writ% on Suntraps; also for an amendment of the poor law.—Mr. 'lump:, from men of re enco in London, praying foe an alteration of the law relating to palclita SOLDIERS' WIVES. In reply to Major Brownian., Mr. F. MAULE said that the question of providicsr sept ette accommodation for married soldiers in barracks had for some time been under the consideration of the government. As far as possible the practice of keeping the married soldier in the same room with the unmarried had been corrected, by placing the tormer in a room by themselves, but even that was still a very great nuisance. The subject of taking married soldiers out of barracks altogether was under the considera tion of government, and he trusted that me long they would be able to make sonic arramtementin that respe NATIONAL LAND COMPANY. Mr. G. THOMPSON, on the part of the hon. member for Itlacnestield, asked the hon. member for Nottingham wheth. r he intended to withdraw his Friendly Societies Bill for the present session ' • w hether he intei deal to take any further steps with regard to a registration of the National Land Compact> ; and whether ha purposed to give to the present allottees any title to the allotments which they n ow hold under the rules and regulati ins of the company, and, if rot, what course he intended to take in reference to those allottees ? Mr. F. O'CONNOR sale, if the hon. member for Mercies field had read the oiler hook of the hawse, or the pr ,ceedings in the committee, or the resolutions of the committee, he would have had an answer to his first questien. From the evidence of Mr. Laws, the barrister, he would find that no bill could have been introduced by him I Mr. O'Connor) which would answer the purpon ain view. To the second question his answer was, that if the hon. member hair consulted the same authornies, and lead the evidence of Mr. Lows, Mr. Tidd Pratt, and others, he would have known than. it wro impossib'e to take further steps with regard to registration. To the third question his answer was "YI s." lie (Mr. O'Connor) was now engaged in using his utmost endeavours for the purpose of divesting the National Land Company of every feature of illegality ; and he would add, that it was his intention to effect the enrolment of the company as a benefit society, because he considered it the ri adicst mode of obtain ing the object foe which it was established. ANNUITY TAN.. Mr. HUME, is reference to the dropped order respecting the 5 per cent. tax iii Edinburgh, known as the annuity tax, said, as he understood toe goverment were disposed to take the subject into their consideration during the recess, he theuld not then press it to their embarrassment. If the noble lord at the head of the ministry would give him an assurance that such consideration would be given to that question he bad no objection to withdraw his notice of motion. Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that a gentle man should be sent to Edinburgh to make inquiry, and that neat session he would be quite ready to state what was in tended to be done in the matter by the government. NORTH WESTERN RAILWAY. Mr. F. O'CONNOR asked the hon. and learned Attorney General whether, in consequence of the dispute which had arisen between the managers of the North V. estern Railway and the drivers otenhe lire, those persons who had previously takes. season tickets on that line, and who had, since the dis pute in question procoeued to their respective destatious by posting or otherwise, m erwise, had any remedy against the com pany, or any redress, or guarantee for redeem, for being com pelled, either through personal dread or coition, to place theurielvcs in that situation? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said—My answer to that question, given on the moment, would necessarily be un satisfactory. More than that, it might be positively inju rious. To give an answer officially would require great titre ; to give it profeseienally would require greater. (Laughter.) SHEEP IMPORTATION (PROHIBITION). On the ne tion for the third reading of the Sheep Impor tation (Prohibition) Bra being moved, Lord G. 13ENTINCK said it was not often he had ground to congratulate the government or the Board of Trade for their acts; but he considered it would be un generous, especially as he was depu:ed to do so by others, not to tender them his own thanks, and those of the farmers of the country, for the first retrograde step made in the matter of free trade. (Laughter.) When mutton was 7d. per pored in this country the government had admitted the sheep of Germ toy free of duty fir the be nefit of the poor of the country ,• and some hundred or hundred and twerdy thousand had been imported m orainal), in the course of 21 months, that was to my, about four day,' supply to Smithfield market. Yet now, in the second year of freo trade, her hlajesty'e government was obliged to come forward with the first measure of prohibi t Om. And why ? Simply because that " great bean" had been the means of importing into this country a foul, fatal, and contagious disease among that class of animals. Ile (Lord G. Deanna) admired and applauded the courage of the ri„ht hon. gentleman in coming forward on the present occasion to save the farmers of this country from further loss through the ravages of the various ovum. He could only say that he hoped the present measure would not be the last step in the direction of protection. Mr. LABOUCHERE—Any compliments from the noble lord to the department over which he had the honour to preside were so rare, that they sounded agreeably to his ears; and if he could honestly accept them be should be very glad. He could not say that he slowed any courage in de parting from the principles of free trade, as asserted by the noble lord, for he was ignorant that precautions against diseased articles, calculated to spread contagion, had any thing to do with free trade. The general impression among our consuls was that the only real way of checking the pro. gems of the disease was by inoculation. Every other way was ineffectual. Mr. HUMS said there was no retrocession from free-trade principles in the present measure. He was, however, at a lass to know how the present measure was to be carried out so as to prevent diseased animals from coming into the kingdom. fur. LAL'OUCHERE replied, by means of the ordinary Custom-house officers. There was another bill which gave the means of remedying mischief from tainted sheep Icing brought into the marget by graziers and others. The bal was then read • third time and paned. SUPPLY—WAYS AND MEANS. Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that every Monday, Wed nesday, and Friday he should move that the house resolve itself into a committee of supply at 12 o'clock. THE GRANT TO Slit C. TREVELYAN. Mr. SPOONER wished to ask a question with respect to the vote of 2 5001. to Sir C. Tinvelyan as to what took place whet: the hon. member for Middlesex brought the matter forward. The noble krd (Lord J. Russell) told the hon. gentleman that it was not the right time to bring the subject forward, that it ought to ha deferred until the vote for civil contingencies was proposed, and it was, therefore, expected that the discussion would be then raised, He was prepared to vote with the hen. member for Middlesex, not because he doubted that Sir C. Trevelyan had rendered great and im portant services, but becauso he considered, on broad and intelligible and constitutional grounds, that no minister ought to grant any sum of money out of the civil contin genciea unless with the sanction of parliament. Ile had looked over the civil contingencies and could find no sum of 2,5001. to Sir C. Trevelyan mentioned. If the money had been paid without any sufficient explanation to the house ho hoped the ton. member for Middlesex would bring forward a vote of censure on the gee ernment. Lord J. RUSSELL said, his recollection of what passed differed materially from that of the hon. member. He cer tainly had not objected to the hon. member for Middlesex raising the discussion at the time: that objection was made by other hon. members and not by him. It was a mistake therefore for the hon. m..mber to say that he stopped the dis cession that it might he taken on the vote for civil contin gencies. There were two questions discussed—the first was, whether it was proper to give any reward or gratuity to a permanent public servo it for extra services performed. Urn that question he held a decided opinion that it was tight to give a • gratuity to the honourable gentlemen the Assistant Secretary of the Trea sury. He would add that since the matter had been debated, Sir C. Trevelyan, thinking that itoubts had been thrown by the house en the propriety of the grant, had ex pressed an earnest wish to repay into the Exchequer the whole of the money, 2,500/., he had received. His answer war, that he was fully cortviin eel of the services he (Sir C. Trevelyan) had performed ; that he believed the sense of the house was in accordance with his opinion, and he could by no means consent that any repayment should take place. There was another question ns to the mode of payment — whether by . a separate vote, or by a sum out of the civil contingencies. He had then stated that this was a fair ma ter of doubt, but if the honourable member thought that, instead of being a matter of doubt, it was so clear that it merited a vote of censure, he certainly was at liberty to bring such a motion forward. A GYM of 1600001. was aenuallywoted, in order to cover what 1(11 short in the sums voted for other objects; and that sum was supposed by the house to be expended in casualties and incidental rep uses; arid it was for the govern ment to say—they might be perfectly wrong in their mon nioe—but it was for them to say in each case whether the matter was one that should rune under the consideration of the house. If the hon. gentleman thought fit to bring for ward a formal resolution of censure on the government, that was a perfectly constitntional course, and one which it was competent to him to take. Mr. OSBORNE said that he should mere the disallow ance of the whole vote when the item of civil contingencies mane heOire the house. Mr. UItQUHART announced that he should not bring fora: ril his amendment on the motion for the Speaker to leave the choir. Mr. ANSTEY ranee a similar Speaker then left the chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY—MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES—AFFAIRS OF ITALY. The house having gore into committee, Mr. BERNAL in the chair, and a vote b. ing proposed of 72,5001. for the sala ries and expense of the Foreign-office, Mr.. DISRAELI said, that whatever disposition there saiglit have been to indulge in debate, very little discus: ion had LILOII place during WO 0e340111 on foreign affairs. Only THE EXPRESS, THURSDAY EVENING, AUGUST 17, 1848. did not cars who the Individual might be, whether it was Indsßollin or the gentleman who wh o hands with him he could not recognise people of that kind as the French Ration, or as those with whom he would wish his country to be in alliance and cordial understanding; and he was persuaded that it the noble lord pur seed his present system he (the noble lord) would soon make this country of the same opinion as he (Mr. Disraeli) was, lie (the noble lord) had it within his means even now to act in a manner which would add to his power, and to the greatness and reputation of this country. He bad it in his power, even in this craven age, to assert the principle of public justice in a manner be coming a British miniater, lie would find, then, that no bandits would gross any mountains or invade any towns, when they saw England prepared to uphold the principle of public law. For in public as well as in private, he had seen I enough to be convinced that in the long run nothing could I withstand the majesty of law, tile force of truth, and the in spirations of honour. (Cheers.) Lord PALM ERSTON.—Sir, I certainly do not rise to °pertain, as the lion, gentleman who has just sat down oemed to expect that I should, that this house his, during the present session of parliament, exhibited any un due desire to impede the much of her Majesty's govern ment in regard to the conduct of the foreign relations of this country, by mewing too hardly upon them for disclosures of the course which they mean to pursue, or by calling for ex ' planation as to the course which they may have pursued ' during the present session of pailiament. Sir, I acknowledge with thankfulness, - my own part and on the part of thu government, the discreet, I must say the judicious, imbue ance which this house his shown in reference to three mat tees. (lieu.) The members of this hou-e have, rightly no doubt, c msidered that the public interest is frsquee tl y best consulted by allowing to the government of the day the free exercise of their own discretion as to the conduct of im portant transactions with respect to foreign countries, re serving to themselves—as of right they are entitled, and in duty bound to do—the exercise of their function of calling to a strict account those whose conduct it may appear necessary to investigate or to censure. (lieer.) 1, therefore, am tar from complaining of the course which the hon. gentleman has pursued oar a former occasion, or 44 that which on the present he has thought lit to pursue. I think the hon. gentleman has acted rightly in choosirm to apply the observation which he has thought proper to make with reference to our fort ign policy, nut to the conduct en my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal, but to tee office which I bays the honour to hold. The honouratile gentleman seems to be better informed than ho wiihes the ho • nourable house to inter with regard to the mission, and grounds, upon which my noble friend the Earl of Mints) proceeded. Every one was, in some degree, aware of how my noble friend acted. The fusee of the ease arc shortly these:—Towards the end of the year, tut it is well known, in contsequcuce of the altered policy of the head of the Romeo government, principles of reform began to prevail, evil con etitutionel demonstrations were promul ,ated over the whole surface of he country. Difficulties were experienced between the government and people with regard to those events ; there being on the part of the govern ment a desire to retain what the people wanted to abolish. These difficulties were felt to be nowhere more pressing than in the city of Rome. A communication was u Ida to me, from a quarter upon which I could rely, conveying to the government of this country that it was the anxious desire of the government of Rome that an official mission should I e sent to Rome, to aid that government, by its coun sel and advice, in se Wing the disputes between it and its people. It was said there might be lege' difficulties in the way of sending an accredit d agent to (tome. But this it was suggested might be. removed 1--y sending an individual to Rome, who, though not actually commissioned by this country, yet, being a person having the coutidenee of the British government, and being one possessing diplomatic ex nerienee, might effect a great service in arranging the digi culties in question. Such a person we deemed Lord Minto to be. Ile war at that time, on hie own private bushiest, spending some time in Italy, and I thought I could not better toil the intentions which were in view than by ad vising her Majesty to des:re the Earl of Minto to proceed to Rome in that unofficial capacity, indeed, in which hn ha' acted, but combining with it the weight of being a mem ber of the government, and possessing its mitre confi dance, giving him a discretion to act upon any sudden emergency that might present itself. I thought I could not do better for both 'menu, both for people and government, then by sending such a man as my noble triend. Indeed, a similar with for some such mission on the part of England had been expressed also by other parts of Italy. My noble friend was instructed to take Turin and Fie:Nance on his way, and he carries! letters of credit appoint ing him upon a special minion to then two court., if he found it was the wish of those governms refs so to receive him. To Rome, however, my noble friend carries' no " official letter." The hon. ip ntleman who has just addiessed the house asked what were the obiects which my noble friend had in view. lie nicest what was the purport and meaning of this uncalled for interference which has taken place. I can say in the first place that the interference was not uncalled for. My noble friend was to be .s .ed to give such come el AP might tend t • remove such athiculties PA might be pointed out. This was the purpose of his mission—a purlieu which be successfully accom plished. ((sear.) My noble friend on the sine hand pointed out to the governments that they might trust their rub bed], with the exercise of more constitutional privileges, and ow the them bane to the subjects that, however ardent they might or In reforms, their national objects would be beta attained by placing confidence is their respective govern menu, and net urging them suddenly to change long. established institutisus. Is Turin and Florence my noble triend his been successful. Great and important changes have been made in these two states without the disturb:rue of the public tranquillity, or without the interruption of those harmonious relations between sovereign and subject which it is such n derrable object to maintain. My nettle friend's metire progress uiroughout Italy was almost an ovation. He max received everywhere with the acclama tions of the people, and with. open arms by all the courts. At Rome my noble friend's labours were directed to the same objects, and were attended with the same mimeos. Ile had no wish to go to the Court of Rome. When my noble friend was at Rome a communication was made to me by the Neapolitan 'minister that the Sovereign of Naples would take it as a compliment it' my noble friend would proceed from Rome to Naples. My answer to this communication was, that if he received an invitation through the queen's charge d'atiairee, my noble friend would go. Ile was nut instructed to pe there, hut his duty was plain. He was invited, and in consequence thereof the necoueary credentials were sent to him, and also instructions communicated. During the unfortunate ditesrent es which broke out between the King of Naples arid his Sicilian subjects both parties asked for the mediations and interference of British diplomacy to endeaveur to arrange and se•tle the dispute. My noble friend was in vited to go to Naples. lie went there accordingly, uad em ployed himself with that zeal, diligence, and ability for I which he is remarkable, in endeavouring to bring about a reconciliation on condition which would maiutain the crown of the two countries upon the same head, 1 will not go into a minute detail of the circumstances which characterised these negotiations, nor advert to more than one event which tended to render them unsuccessful. But, at the period when those negociations were almost brought to a lathe factety conclusion, the news of the revolution at Paris and the events in that country arrived ; and the house may imagine the eft, ct the intelligence would have on the minds of men. These circumstances led to in crone d difficulties, which were not met with concession on the one hand, or light demende upon the other. The result was, that the people of Sicily declined to acknowledge the King of Naples as their sovereign, and the King declined to confer the crown of Sicily upon one of his sons, to whom that crown belonged. They chose a prince accordingly, who, in their judgment, would be the best for the interests of the country. It was immaterial whether that opinion coincided with that of tier Majesty's government the choice was made entirely by themselves; and at that time her Majesty's government bad signified that they would be ready to acknowledge any sees reign whom the Sicilians might choose when he was in actual possession of the throne. The hon. gentleman wants to know what is the intention of the government in regard to the employment of the naval force of this country now sta tioned in the Mediterranean with respect to any expedition which the government of Naples may think it necessary to fit out. lam very tarry that I feel myself obliged to follow in the steps of my noble friend beside me, and nay noble friend in the other house of parliament, and to ray that it is , not the practice of the government, and it is not expedient u regards public interests, to establish a habit of announcing in parliament what the int ntions of the government are in regard to anticipated events in foreign parts. (Hear.) What ever may be the course the government may think it neces sary to take we shall be prepared to justify and defend tied course ; and it will be for the house to determine whether we have acted properly or not. (Hear.) New then so much in regard to the policy which this government has pursued in respect to the affairs of Italy, and in reference to the mission of my noble friend Lord Minto. That mission was founded on the most disinterested motives; the motives which led to that mission had in them nothing that could be considered sordid, base, selfish, or interested. (Hear, hear.) Our object was to do pond wherever we thought that good could be accomplished. The only British interest which we believe could be served by the mission was the interest which England, as a great power, must always feel in msintaiuing peace in other countries, and wherever she was invited to do so to interfere for the progress of civilisation, of tee im provement and the happiness and we II being of all her Ma jesty's e.ubjeete. But the hon. gentlemen adverts to the more event events that have taken place in the ninth of Burs, pe. He seems to think that the mediation which this country had engaged in partook of the character of as impertinent inter terence without any legitimate object, Red incapable of leading to any result whatsoever. Sir. I can only say that that mediation is the result not of any spontaneous and intrusive desire of this country to meddle in matters with which we had no concern, but se the result of earnest entreaties and repeated applications made to us, I may say, by all the partite concerned,directly or indirectly, in these transactions, Sir, it is the result of a wish expressed at the beginning and end by the government ct Austria. (Hear, hear.) By wishes expressed at the outset and repeated not three days ago. (Hear, hear.) It is the result of wishes expressed by the government of Sardinia and the people of hely. It is the result of wishes expresece by the government of France ; and I must say that, if in answer to all these wishes es) expressed we obstinately end doggedly refused to interfere—(hear, hear)-1 think we should then, indeed, be deserving of that censure which the bon. gentleman and his friends seemed to think we are deserving of for the course which we have already pursued. (Hear.) The government of Austria, in the be ginning, asked our good Mikes, and even at so late a period as the 15th August, expressed a strong desire that we should take a part in the settlement of their affairs. The govern ment of France were requested to interfere by military assistance in aid of the Italian cause. The hon, member, however, says that Ira= would have had no right to meddle in this affair. Now, I think that that is a " s as ieu to q h u ere est . ion T er he h re ich m i a t y wo b Vd di pe ite r re h r ats vi t for the us ex to pe d d isc ien u e m y and policy or justice of interference between two countries that were at war with each other; but, in point of strict right, there can be no question that when two countries are, even by his own account, thus situated, it is compe tent for • third party to take whichever side he pleases in the matter. Sir, I will not enter into a dis cussion of the circumstances under which the war began. The hon. gentle men seems to think that part of the instructions given to Lord Minto were to prevent Austria attacking Sardinia last year. Now this is not the fact. This point formed no part whatever of the instructions given. Lord Mints tad no minion to Austria. It was part of his mission to induce the Sardinian government to abstain from hoatilite s towards Austria, which the latter country apprehended, but under circumstances totally diffe rent from those which characterised the movements of the Sardinian army. The Austrians required possession of the whole of Italy, and the government rrufessed to apprehend some hostile intention on the part of the King of Sardinia. Undoubtedly the British government did urge the King tif Sardinia to abstain, if he had such intentions, from ad vancing hostilely by armed forces. But when these late military events took place, the French government was ur gently asked to afford military aid to the Italian troo p s. The hon. !Kreitman who protesees to think that it is, and oughtto he, and has been, the sound policy of th's country— liable only to partial exceptions—to be on a footing of lriendship and general co-operation with France—the bon. gentleman who thinks thus has, I believe, been somewhat' unfortunate in the manner in which, as far as we are con cerned, he has this day endeavoured to give effect to that community of good feeling which should exist between us. I enter fully lino the spirit of his doctrine, how ever I may lament the manner in which he has en deavoured to carry it into effect.. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I would wish to forget, if possible, and I should wish that the French nation would also forget, if possible, those parts of hie speech which ere nut ealculated . to I u f promote th w union ere an e c d e t s y eecunrcthtie, they were e c r o e u n n o tLies to . raise the th e y were i,ite ndud, a s lam cure they were not, to I relic the Luitti r jealousy of one great nation toward s an other—to woun d their pride—to dare them to that which you, alter all, wished them not to do ; it the hoe. gentleman intended differently from what I know he dues intend to the gene eel interests of Europe, to produce great public evils to the Mae of order and civilisation, I do not kn iw that he could have thrown into the ...Wren of discontent a 114010 hitter ingredient or more poieenous drugs than those which he has infused into his speech. (Beer, hear.) But, I say, I will not answer in detail seeat I have already . stated in genteel terms, fur fear I shot - I be the nnwilline instrument of peeling the shaft still shareer than it has been. But I will merely say that the hon. gen.neman is very much mistaken and his friends are also vies -ouch mistaken it they fancy that there is anything in the present condition of Franco which makes it inipossibls foe tier is take pert in any hostile interference, if her govientre et should be desirous of em barking in such. There coule. not be any greater error than to assume such a thing. The present army of France might, if it so pleased that nation, pear her legions over the Alps now, as it had done on a former occasion. Let not the house imagine that any vain phant^s had created alarm or un mine et on the part of the treseenment I admit we should feel that the interlerence on th . e part of France in Italy would be pregrant with those dangers which the hon. member had describe.' in all their magnituaa. Ile my., if France goes into Italy, ell Germany will go the other way; and if Germany should take the field against trance, Russia will be sure to follow her footrepe. It is nc doubt very easy, under such circumstances, to anticipate icry great calamities arising. But if the govern's:it nt of Fence tells us that they have been pressed for their arrcal interference, but that they did not wish to proceed to thn extent—that they would be willing to enlist themselves is conjunction with us for the purpose of settling matters be mediation, and that they ask an to assist them in securing the objects on much desired in the spirit of friendship, ee-sly no One wit suppose that ] England could have any hostile views in regard to Austria in scripting of their terms. What both governments may unite together to do in this respect must lie a work of peace. The French government aed to us, " If you will offer mediation conjoined with ur. we will sespend our decision I as to any intentions which nese lead to the iteloption of other measures." I say, Sir, :eat the government of this I country you'd be incapable of discharging the responsible duties which devolve upon teem, if in such case they had not acted in the manner deecrilietl. That, then, in the only motive which hem led us to .wcept of this joint mediation. The principle is that of maineening the peace oh Europe. The means and objects by which this 0 to be brought about give rise to a tite stion which revives itself into a series of de tails, which I feel it is my euty at present to refuse. Sir, the hon. geiitlema't has beetled the French government with the ca operation that nes existed at different periods between the French anti English governmenta, and he has included, in the sweeping -'.age of his artillery, not only our camp, but that of our peelecessons in office—the party who nit opposite. He has taunted us with our interference in Belgium and in Bollard, -.eel with depriving of his rights a living sovereign • but, sir it is well known that the plan we acted on in retired of diet interference was one that had been laid down by our psziecessers, after long negotia tion. on the subject, and reereover that that interference wan made at the request e! the sovereign whose rights the hon. gentleman has a-id we have set at naught. It wag at toe instance and ey the request of the King of the Netherlands, that the Five Powers, of which England I was one, undertook the esuference, and established the' armistice between the contending parties in that care, which issued in the result alluded to by the hon. gentle man. (ll.sr, hear) The non. gent!emen said that the alliance of France ought to ee a product of the occurrence I 'of circumstances, and not of the creation of events or the invention of opportunities. But when, and by whew, were these events created, and them opportunities rove nted ? Did we create these everts which have con vulsed the whole of Europe l-'.m tnd to end (Bear, hear.) Del we invent the opportunize that has arisen for the um tual action of Ft anoe and England in the present instance ? (Hear.) We were in hopes neat the mutual action of France and Freeland in the matter would prevent the extension of internal to extents' :ear; hsnre our combination. I am anxious, 1 hope we ellen Ise able, to presets e the peace of Europe—a peace which I may say has through that action existed without disturbance fer a period of 30 yearn, hut which tor the last le --ars has certainly been main tained by the good un:erstantling that has obtained in that period between Ynglene and France. It is fel. this purpose, sir, that we have combined with France ; it is for this obi. et we are gled to combine with the French government, whoever they any happen to be, to avert the horrors of war. ( Hear, `ear.) And, sir, notwithstanding the hon. gentleman's emcees, I bold it to be an object of which any government, me: the government of England more especially, may justly feel proud. (Hear.) With re- gard to the principal incidrets which the hon. gentleman has passed over in such re p e succereion in the course of his speech on this occasion, they are all explicable on this general principle. Some of these incidents, however, the expedition to Ancona for instance, wl-ieh he designates as a violent interference on the part ce the two governments, neither government is accountable ear ,• that, ut least, was not done by the government who broug ht the razsias of Africa into the Mutts of I'aris, but be that severer government and sovereign whose wisdom the hon. gentleman has so highly eulogised. We are, tberefore, proud to say that, in the face of those great es snts which have recently dis turbed the fabric of seseety in Franca—those events which have overturned the antecedent governmeat of that country, and brought it->a power men other than those who for a lung period preseously had wielded the govern ment—we arc glad, I Tepee., to find that, in spite of these events, and their results, selose persons who now govern the French nation, and i firmly believe a great ma jority of the French metier itself, maintain a frank, a loyal, and an enlightened desire that the policy of France in this respect ma; find itself in unison with the Policy of this country. I an,, also, looking at the events of the last few months, aesoier important fact has been proved. namely, the rapid marines that has been made to wards the establishment of ea enlightened policy as between nations during the last herr century. The same events that have occurred within the last four months, occur ring fifty years previouesv, would have involved the whole of Europe in war. We have, however, had changes in all the nations which ninpose Europe—changes too of a fundamental character ; mad yet there exists, I may say, in the minds of all men, a - teem and even an anxious de sire for the preservation of external peace. (Hear.) It is consoling to find those who are at present the organs of !colic opinion in the French nation, instead of turning loose, as was done in the rest revolution, all the had pas sions of the people for the ;remotion of war—it is consoling, I say, to find that they are occupying themselves instead with the internal interest. of their own country, and are desirous to preserve ordc in France by consolidating French liberty and estabeeeing French freedom. That, sir, does honour to these "lea, whatever may have been their previous associations, -.r in whatever course they have been antecedently embarked. As long as England and France act together for the eeace of the world, no long will every effort they snake to that end be adapted to since» and honourable purposes. 3.t is impossible twe such nations as France and Eugland shesed unite for any purpose which is not avowed in the face or all mankind. We propose now one of that description ; an.. trust in heaven that our pro. posal may be successful. I trust that the efforts of two great nations for the happiness ales advantage of mankind, mty, in this instance, he successful. At all events, our best efforts I shall he directed to that cad ; and whether we succeed or whether we fail, I feel persuad ed that the unanimous judg ment of parliament will thick that we are right in making the endeavour. (Cheers.) Mr. H. DAILLIE asked the noble lord, an regards Spain, whether the friendly relations that previously existed be tween both countries should be renewed ; and whether England WWI still considered to be bound by the quadruple treaty. The noble lord had told the house thet the object of the treaty of the quadruple alliance was to assist the establishment of liberal governments in Spain and Por tugal. But bad it accompliebee that (Ask et? On the contrary, was not the most violent, arbitrary, and illegal government that ever existed established in those countries There was, indeed, a new Cortes assembled, and the Cahn'. ists were nominally excluded, but the tools of the Cabralista were there, and did the work of oppression effectually. The in terference of the British government in the affairs of Spain had been productive of the establishment there of a more griading and oppressies tyranny than had ever be'ore prevailed there. In reference to the circumstances which had led to a cessation of dnelomatic intercourse between this country and Spain, he certainly considered that the Spanish government had acted with very great indiscretion ; but on the other hand, the charges which they brought against our minister at the court of hifterid, and which our government had refused to entertain, were of a most grave character. Sir Henry Bulwer himself did not deny one of the very gravest of these enarges, thizof having received into his house the progressist leaders who had be, n conspiring against the do jade government of Span, a course which clearly ren- dered him liable under the law of nations, to the cx- been laid upon the table of the house. R e e n . pulaion to which . be had been subjected. He regretted not occupy the time of the house by pyii:ti.: 1". 2, 111 0414 that the evidence in the. matter bad not been laid on failure of both hon. members in w e - ;: s e , t we e tote the table of the house, so a. to place the real facts of the case speech or the despatch, but be should be content r-°°-a n t hs before the country and befeee Europe, and to cast the blame both to be compered with the speeches this day delis on the shoulders really en* eled to bear it. by the two henoutable members. But he (Le tu rd da " --r ' es ,'„,_ l2 si The Citaiitsree then .sported propels and obtained felt it due to Sir Henry Bulwer to notice three el e ,„% al elW) leave to sit again at 5 o'clock. had been brought forward by the hon. member I - „,_"'''t The b ' ore adjourned at self - pat 3 till 6. shire (Mr. H. Bernie) as the grounds which"lnienT—'',„ Thu house resumed at 5 o'clock. justified the Spanish government in demanding h' - 7,7 n IRISH COLLEGES. and, if not recalled, in sending him away from Madrid. Mr. GROGAN had a .euestion to ask respecting the Bulwer did no such thing— he had first charge was that Sir H. Bulwer had pi -,,--,'" 1 4 Queen's colleges in helve& Two years since considerable rators to assemble at his iesideace. This charge '''''O' sums had been voted for the erection of four colleges in Ire- tnry to fact, was totally unfounded and isejl ec set en. laid, for the education of the middle classes. Those edificesdenied i t It were now in a forward state, so much so that he believed the most distinct and positive terms—there w — ea ," ki some of them would be open early next re .r. The hon. mem- the shadow of a proof adduced to supeartu it,ea, "s e‘s yeers, it wes impoesibre for act bar read a letter already published in the papers), pulp gt. he (Lord Palmerston) reiterated that the weerion ing to be from the Earl of enarenden to Archbishop Murray, true, and was toteliy and entirely without the shadow stating that the ordiamice. mspecting the colleges bad been foundation . (Hear, bar.) The hon. member here e - • revised in such a manner se, to obviate Roman esthetic object misunderstood the argument which he (Lord Palau"„ --, Mons, and begging his grace to submit them te the Pope for had u.seil in the despatch Leering on this question. lank his approval. This letter bed appeared in all the papers , and despatch he bad stated that in a country like Spain w ham he ( Mr.Grogan)thought be was warranted in calling the wn- there had been from 30 to 4) changes of im i ' W 6 litte n h i:n t t h s o . u A gh a t tlgs a c t copulleiramsehnatdhbeeaana 3.paceinimeofretoigh.tv.Aordtpeenrwaai intercourse with i. . ,,.it f ~,.., t r i ii in t l i t t o l f Parith the lipa e um a b r ilta l li i c a tin t too r in n ue lo yc lation respecting any alteration in were opposed to one government or another 1 .1 "6 0 ,„,„„7 Such was the argunnutemtaM4 their statutes. He wished to know whether, if the letter minister could but shut his door agaLt is ( e'''' was genuine, the gable lord at the head of the government divelual with whom he had been i n e a lei T e In would lay it on the table ; and also whether the ordinance' mutilation as a member of the Spanish Rome ~,e s day ibl e l. that er°r et' becauseher etg s th e n e ra n ti e ezet hea w 2cl u edr O 'Lilo/3ff odic es 'cL'add :e: w e: bad been submitted to the hithops of the established church 'or the synod ? eition to the administration of his successors. It e es - er"" e ,_ Lord J. RUSSELL said the house was aware that a bill had been passed fur the purpose of establishing colleges in nation could so regulate his social intercourse as 'sol u te' eel' Ireland for promoting the education of the middle classes it, the habit of communication with persons opp eee d jet - 1 ;n that country. It appeared to the Lerd-Lieutenant that the Tenement of the day. object of paniament would not be assured if the Roman ca. his despatch. (Ilear, hear.) The other charge ee_e• tholic youth were deterred from attending the collegir, and against Sir H. Bulwer MB that he had n er e em 'eel therefore he put the statutes into such a shape as to cbviate who hail conspired against the Spanish gover ent i4a 2 the objections of the It man catholic clergy. As to the who were in a state of concealment ream the pursuit n 0 1'6.. letter quoted by the lion. weu.ber , he could not give a psi- tice. Sir H. Bulwer to that aceuseth n had stead that wee, •- tive answer. upon the universal practice of all ;he foreign when me's.' Mr. GROGAN asked if the statutes had been submitted to c i. o d ur vid o tial fMe w d h ri o d a , drai he had received t r h e a ce t iv h e e d h fu o r d a bet teteo co rry Mf de ,.., : " tt the protestant Archbishop of Dublin 1 Lord J. RUSSELL could not say. No doubt they would Insurrection, or rather in the attempt at an ' reee .. -- have been had any protestant objections been advanced. and some others who had been suspend, e te j - " , , s , Mr. GROGAN observed that .. vie of the colleges was in- afterwards appeared urjustly suspected, of treeing t e e s e - ss e tended for the pretheterians, and yet they had received no in those pruceediop ; but Sir li. Bulwer Allmon thetr'e, notice of the alterations. practice was ackaowleffind and admitted in eled e c, SLAVE TRADE. would have been disgraceful in him to have retard l t ee .: On the order of the day for a coo mittee of supply being racy asylum to these individuals ; and he (Leai l P steeee read, thought thou g ht that his havicg done this presented no jam veil Mr. URQUHART rose to move " That from the carte- on which the Spanish government hada right to me a r s e spondenee laid upon the table of the house in reference to the recall or to send Lim away. (Hear, hear.) The me i ,: suppression of the sieve Mettle in Museulmen countries, it last charge nade against Sir H. Delete wa s th et a / ma— appeare that her Majesty's tenants have adopted proceeding s g iven nu r . futation to the accusation of havi n g cestagit calculated to aggravate the horrors of the traffic, and to money for the purpose of getting up the Madrid • alienate from this country the good will of the governments Why that ridiculous and trumpery charge had i li7er liit te l m a and nations so interfered with. The hon. member, amid a by Generel Pezuela, who had the commando( the ---' buzz of cony. nation which rendered his observati ens els oat forme at the time ; and he (Lord leameracn) busted itm s inaudible, was understood to say that he made this motion not necessary for him to assure the house Viet taut ease . / in consequence et the correspondence which had Leen laid on no. the slightest ground for that Makatea' and abnite - the table dewing the previous week, and he hoped to prove p utation. (Hear, near.) It had been said that hien how very injurious and inefficient had b'en all our diploma. great pity that her Majesty's govemmenthad nst semi tic efforts fur the suppression of the slave trade is Turkey, Count Mirasul to retract these charges. Coast Mew Persia, and other Ifluerulman countries'. We had threatened preferred no charges, but only came as a winkle. Bottom them with 001111SCAlion, and had even entered into discussions time had been allorced to H. !sterns to tetra: theme Me. with their doctors relative to their laws; and yet , he main - attem p t was made either to retract or prima timi taincd that with all these vexatious proecedinaa the cause of He therefore wholly dismissed that mem?. It Lei, neonate, slavery abolition had not been advanced sue jut. Slavery been asked, what WAS the present state of the rthemsof was part of the law of Persia and all Mahornetaa coon- this country with Spain ? His reply was, that the peeLl tries, and we had no more right to interfere with it than state of the relations with Spain steed thus—the cliploace they had to interfere with our internal affairs. The only intercourse between the two countries war slummed F ee result he could draw from the papers on the table was, that ther it had been inquired, what means a British werchut the British minister had used hip best effete' to pick a quay- resident in Spain, and who had suffered wrong from the ro red with Persia. The result of the noble lord's policy was vernment there, had to obtain a mammal of thesi wrote i to force a quarrel on Persia, and drive her into the arms of The reply was, that in every part of Spain this countryfied Russi.e consular officers, whose duty it would, be to make mem Mr. HUME having seconded the amendment, tions to the government on behalf of the British merelent, Lord PALMERSTON observed that he was an enemy and if these applications were not attended to then wen to slavery in any form. The gem rument, therefore, other measures which the government would adopt to AM thought that it war not an improper application of the moral attention to representation' of the character eluded to. 'renitence of England to endeavour to induce Mahometan as (Hear.) Another hon. member wanted to know how thil well as Christian; countries to pat an end to the practice of country stood now with reference to its treaties with Spa. the slave trade. The first country in whirls they made the Those treaties were not in any degree affected by the we attempt was Tunis, and the Bey of that country, yielding to pension of diplomatic relations between the two countries; that influence, not only abolished the slave trade, but the and though it was not his (Lord Palnisreton's) province to condition of slavery altogether in his dominion. (Hear, answer hypothetical questions, he would not hem Late to Ma hear.) In that country at least that result bad followed that if any application was made by Spain to this coulees) from our interference, which the hon. member raid we could carry out t he t a eaties, it would then be for her Magnet never hope for in Mahometan countries. (Cheers.) Then governme consider whether the claim made wa the government addressed themselves to the Sultan, and en- good, and to give the Spanish government an am deavoured to induce the government of Turkey to prevent accordingly. He nould also go as far as to ry a t h is the the slave trade being practised by their subjects, feeling quadruple treaty had been contracted for very petticoat that it was too much to expect thut they would put circueastacces, and that it was not very likely twat at meat an end to the condition of slavery. And atter five months' any question would arise to which the provisions of that exertions they did succeed in obtaining from the Sultan a treaty could be applied. Again, it had been asked what geed airmen prohibiting the slave trade as carried on by the sub- had been effected by the government having mixed itself op jects of the Parte. Minister* next directed their efforts to in the affairs of Spain and Portugal, and what herein pad the Imaura of Muscat, who was • great slave trader, and by accrued from the quadruple treaty ? Why it must be re whose subjects the slave trade MA carried on in the most membered that the very signing that treaty put an end to a barbarous manner, and they succeeded so far as to induce dreadful civil war in Portugal—led to the surrender of Dot that sovereign to prohibit his subjects within certain limits Miguel, and to Dan Carlos at once coescntiag to from carrying on that trade. Then they had treaties with quit Spain. This was all accomplished without sae many of the Arab chiefs, by which they engaged not to expense to this country beyond that of the pen and Mk enth carry on the slave trade. Then came Persia. He was glad which the treaty was signed. (Hear, beau) As to hi the hon. member had quoted the despatches of Col. Shiel on transactions last year in Portugal, there a civil war, thick the subject, because the more those despatches were read the threatened to be of long duration, had been put an cede; greater credit would be reflected on that gentleman, whom and though t he did not pretend to say that everything thee ability and zeal in the performance of his duties had since gone en exactly as her Majesty's government bed entitled him to the highest praise. (Hear, hear.) a right to expect, yet at all events peace hail been msim Colonel SIAM had laboured with great assiduity to tamed in Portugal, while all Europe . had been conceited persuade the Persian government to fellow the example of He was not willing further to deism tie house ou these the Sultan, the I maum of Muscat, and tho Arabian chiefs, matters; he had given such answers as be felt himself a and to pionibit the subjects of the Shah from carrying on the liberty to supply, and he hoped the house would think he slave tracte in the l'ersian Gulf. And, unfertunattly fur the tree done as much as was consistent with his duty. (lime hon. member, notwithstanding his ingenious and elaborate Mr. BANK ES thought that one of the noble lord's repim argument, the documents produced before the slave-trade furnished one ground against a portion of the vote now committee, which were now, he believed, on the table of the bt fore the committee, tor the noble lord had shown that the house, would show, "inc e the correspondence the hon. mem- country could go on as well with only consuls to r i pron.% ter quoted from, that the Shah had issued a firman to pro- her abroad as she could with the more costly re pun:Meru Whit his subjects from carrying on the slave trade. (Hear.) —ambassadors. After a few words from Mr. 'URQUHART, who denied that Lord G. BENTINCK said that he wantede to 1010 , 1 the noble lord had fairly represented him, whether the rt quest made by Austria militia Mr. HUME, though agreeing that government were jut- of this country had not been made so far back as ten weeks tiled in using all legitimate influence to put down the slave ago, at a time when the Austrian government was in its beg trade it, other countries, objected to the attempts to effect of need and difficulty—when the whole of Europe war the object by means such as those employed on the coast of in combustion—when the Emperor had been dries foe Africa, which, instead of effecting the object in view, only his own capital and forced to lunspruck—when the vette" added to the horrors of the traffic. General Radetzki had been driven with his troops from Sir It. I NGLIS reminded the hon. member that during Milan ? Was not this the precise time when the good thus the 14 elute the Afric in squadron had been kept up, we bad and mediation of Great Britain were sued for by the Am taken e 0 ships, which, if not captured, would have conveyed trian government, and refused by the noble lore) opptaie 190,1100 slaves to the American coast. (Lord Palmerston) ? lie wanted also to know whether as Lord .1. RUSSELL observed that the subject to which mediation asked for on that occasion had not been &MUM the hon. member for Montrose had adverted hal been the fiat by Baron Kohler, and afterwards by Count Dieted subject of inquiry before a committee, and he would examine stein, who succeeded him; or whether the request. halter the evidence to see if it were possible to adopt other measures from the Germanic Diet at Frankfort? These questions he better calculated to suppress the trade. What he rose for should like to have answered before the vote for the Forties was, however, to express a hope that the house would not office was agreed to. Wasthe request made before orafteree now, on the 16th of August, enter into any very long discus• noble lord had announced that he had detenninedto joie welt lions, but that they would allow the committee of supply to France in the mediation l The King of Sardinia bating proceed with the consideration of the remaining estimates. thought fit to invade the dominions of the Emperor aline Lord G. BENTINCK reminded his hon. friend (Sir R. trig, the latter had aright to chastise the in.adcr and all the Inglis) that during the fourteen years to which he referred, laws of nations and war forbade interference bequeathal. we had by our interference inflicted the most aggravated suf. The hon. member for Middlesex (Mr. Osborne) had stated ferings on from 80,000 to 100,000 wretched beings. He gave that he did not intend to oppose the Tote of 2,0001. to deem credit to his noble friend (Lord J. Russell) for being lin- the expenses of Lord Minto's mission, on the principle tlat ' pressed with a most laudable hatred of the slave trade ; but as the noble lord had preserved peace be was cheap at RI he thought he took an awkward way of showing it when he price. (Laughter.) Now he (Lord G. Dentinal was Mille gave prectical encouragement to slavery and the slave trade at a loss to discover of what use Lord Minto hid been a by the introduction of slave-grown sugar. (Protectionist Preserving peace; on the contrary, it appeared to him en: cheers.) the noble lord had done much to provoke the ratam The amendment was then put and negatived, and the lye ' house the subjects of the King of Sicily. (Rear, e, Mud house resolved itself into committee. His hon. friend the member for the esunty . On the vote that 72,5001. be granted for the salaries and Disraeliehad desired to know what had been the itistroctini expenses of the department for foreign affairs, given by her Majesty'e government to the Queen's ewe Mr. IIANKES - renewed the discussion on the subject of acting in the Mediterranean, and the torkle lord bad alma foreign affairs, demanding to know if hostile orders had to answer that question. His hon. friend iiad no: implied been given to he British fleet towards the crown art Naples ; as to future instructions, but with reference to past intim ated also demanding inquiry as to our present relations with tions, and what had been the acts done by the authiwited the court of Spain, but imputing no blame to Sir H. Bulwer, the British government in the dispute between the Rug d and admitting that he did not exceed the authority with the Two S had a his rebellious sub have answer jects. This weilt ll which he was Invested. question he had a right to ask and to ed. Mr. MACGREGOR drew attention to the CM of Col. load been commonly reported that while the aeunUies Wm Bristow's expulsion from Spain, and asked for explanation thrown into confusion by the sudden and unexpected Mint thereon ; at the saute time he readily admitted, with the of the people, and when the latter succeeded in overpowerise noble lord, the great inconvenience of discussing such matters the King's forces in Sicily—and when the King a at that period of the session. Naples, recovering from his astonishment, had pee Sir D. L. EVANS fully concurred in the lad remark, pared ate army of 30,000 men, which would ball and expressed his regret that the present session should have overpo wered the insurgents, the British men.of.mg, been eo remarkable for such discussions. In fact, two con- under Sir William Parker, appeared in the Bay of Naples' tinental power, could not have the least dispute without in- and a message was gent by the Bulldog steamer to in during some hon. gentlemen of that house to call upon the the King's forces that if they proceeded, as they bad it government for intervention, while other hon. gentlemen de. tended, to bombard Palermo, and to reduce the warren mended that there should be no intervention. The course to obedience, they would be o pposed by the forces of WI now pursued regarding Spain and Portugal was not new, Queen of England. (Hear.) This was a point upon which but similar to that adopted by this country for fifty years he trusted the house and country would receive some clew, past ; and again he must say that he utterly deprecated dim distinct and unequivocal information from the government CIIIII6O/1 on such subjects pending soy negotiation. The CHAIRMAN WY about to put the vote, when Mr. HUME said it was true that for the last fifty years Mr. URQUHART hoped the noble lord app eite (Lord our polity had been that of intervention, and that policy Palmerston) would answer the question which had been pa t, lie objected to. Mr. P. HOWARD said it was undeniable that by the in. at an earlier period of the debate, as to the circumstance! which had led to the proposed mediation in the ante tervention of this country last year, a period had been put to Italy being u ndertaken. a very fierce and bloody civil war in Portugal, and the con.was stitotion of that country had been restored to its legitimate tore was male on the part of the BritLitegovernment, it _ Austria nod the Pontifical States would not be lost sight of and ordinary form, and he trusted the question between I merely an offer to rai diate, and be hoped the house sroeld viscount PALMERSTON said that when the fret oven or disregarded in any of those pacific measures of advice and or arbitrator, in which character this mediation h d el: not overlook the distinction between the office of alll a mm . p i f intervention which were mutually adopted between the B ,Pelten of by some hon. members, and that of a simple_ _ government of France and the crown of England. Bator employing his good offices. (Hear, bear. ands, ) nes Mn. B. OSBORNE said that if the old intervention policy gentlemen had talked of the arbitration of Eugland, was to be resorted to there would be no end to estimates Ana . 8 tto en• supplemental estimates our the service of the f. oreign depart, their character. The first request to this governmet , head of foreign affairs on- the Italian question, end deli- ltslY mint of the state. But the speech of the noble lord at the ngland and France acting as umpires ; but that wises t ploy its good offices with a view to restore peace innorle.ste vered at the morning sitting, exhibited the elevated statesman. (Hear, hear) lie for one thanked the noble been sent over by the Austrian government Prong 7 views of a philanthropist in the dienifled language of the heel been made by Baron Hummeleu,r, who bad that purpose. That offer was not ueclined. There vas ,te terence between the two lord for that speech, and would only add, that though it had which the British government thought they could enter lata been his intention to oppose the vote of 2,0001. for the ex- the mediation with a bar premiere of success. Ar. oh, rse r e ~ governments as to t he ter:. r penes of Lard Minto's mission, his views had been com- to mediate upon certain bases which the British goats pletely changed by the speech of the noble lord below him ( Lord Palmerston), and he should not offer any opposition to nothing further ensued in consequence. The lastcome, eeee that vote, believing that it secured the peace of Europe at cation by which the Austrian government ex prewee thought at that time likely to be attended with name , e!,' a few words in reply to the hon. and learnt d member for the a very cheap rate. (Hear.) desire to have the good offices of England, nut the arearrte Lord PALMERS't ON send he could hardly avoid offering but the friendly offices of EugLnd, with a view te; s f a r i T y had be" Fong , try in all former times of her , istory to consider that the in county of Dorset. In the first place he had to remark that Baron Wcuenberme the Austrian Minister for stonttion of peace in northern Italy, it hail always been the policy of the government of this cows_ Affairs; it was uated 9th of August, and;ad v-Zi tames el Great Britain were deeply concerned in the trans- Austrian Caul* d'Affaires in this country.. the in ' actions which took place is other countries, and every admi- •Sir J. WALSH swished for some information as to sess sented to him (Lord Palmerston) a few day 4 o, 0 Y - nistration had felt it to be its duty to look to 'tractions which hail beengiven to Sir W . Parker, witb re ' r those interests and to take such measures as might to the course to be taken by the squadron in the elesiterrow' he necessary to secure their protection either by At this moment there we a ls no con ceivable difference beinotwee: negotiations—or, if negotiations failed, by other methods. the position of Sicily and Ireland , except that Naples _,,,, much argument en answering (Hear, hear.) In the early part of this debate, the hoe . weak state, and England a strong one. Is it went outee the members tor Inverness and Buckinghamshire had bestowed world that the King of Naples bad been canasta e' s Palmerston) a consicerable time ago. RIO. in replying also to had a perfect right to Mee. a greet stain would rest 0s t a p a speech made be him (Lord threats from this country, from adopting a came wan a despatch he had written too .01.11.4.wriA, and which had country. NTI hat n d hin n to, a. b " dlcilbag i r :egel ;d ! dl d: e 7 ire o ra:l l :tch: Lo rd byp i ‘b i aFor ee. tu o tu' e P' h . 3.° f ßtw o ' l l: w u erh:i o teul g r . a : f 6 trea tiult h It? l ay f • ing der t o the ld e • e eu the r the • ea entof luer " thel sd• li bankOt a k m a te yr t:not takez ahp efr P r icy ae i e:l e i c e e u mg l3 rt h: d l e r t m ' h i a l ih a n e r ce h nl eto e c t it e t B b etht i 3 n a t o e t naTqc4l.:d. n ext d g e t u u ° 6 o i Iki ro ' h e t ac oh r v h h o'i.' 2rc h n : . • 'l : 4 ntd f d e jejto Tht i, uti hP: . .i n; l l l: c2i t d Un er, e e r y were made t chequer to we ti form. la sty: ra rides bad been d that these &Ail England. The vote was On the vote State l'Aper.otfi , Mr. OSBOlt; reconunindie!re o fft n a. Did the Dr. BOWRI racy beauties ot the offices miab Sir G. Ciltk • should he kri.t office au 1 tnose tageous it 'nigh meat. Col. SIB fEI called the we The tote ems the expenses 0 , On the hex: , poor laws. Col. SIBT II 26,000/. on lust Mr. 111351 E for the mere At ought to be tee Mr. OSBOR centralisation • meet. (near. Scotch poor lull know whetlu r Mr. ELLIO • th ought tee Lord J. RV! achoolimuter!, thing to do sit though they u, to suppose Bud Nation. After a few Lord BBRI complaint th .t . only half of tte of it must inro the guardians. mistresses we!( it wa. umesnar Mr. BRIG!: inspecten. Mr. C. BUL and they were on the suppo found, bowl «• put to, that • to him to be I, - new inspector , year, t b y woe ea'de' t : nistmtion of formation en.. Mr. BRIG salaries whist 7,513/. was p penses. The Mr. BI:LI allow a gui,.( of loclmot n had been Intl was to estshl After a tee Mr. GLAI had appoint( know whe.h Mr. C. 111 but he con , b (peace of t economical. with e 01;, Mr. M moat of the M iot la existei Sir J priyl! an en two occasions had there been anything like a regular de bate, one in reference to the affairs of Denmark, the other re 'sting to the expulsion of Sir 11. Bulwer from Madrid. In both those cases the discussion had been conducted without any party feelings, and mini-ten had no occasion to complain of the discussions. He now felt it his duty to call attention to a branch:of our foreiga relations of great importance—the state of Italian politics, and our relations with the Italian states.) ;Ile had thought the vote to the Lord Privy Seal a fit occasion on which to introduce this subject, that noble lord having figured much in these politics ; but he had thought this might seem invidious, as the government was responsible for all the noble lord h ad done; and he had accordingly taken this opportunity of introducing the subject. All the transactions of the Lord Privy Seal were connected with what had slicer occurred. Last year the noble lord had been sent to Italy on a peculiar and roving minion, apparently to teach polities to the sovereigns of Italy. It hail been thought necessary to communicate with these sovereigns by no less a person than a member of the British cabinet, who, perfectly familiar with the designs and wishes ef government, might, by a large discretion, lay the foundations of Italian pros perity. The °beets contrasted m :et remarkably with the results of this mission. At that time, great fi are were enter sought to prevent this; he had succeeded ; au L d the only thing that had happened was that Sardinia hail invaded Austria. (Ilear,hear.) But to communicate diplomatically with his Holiness the Pope was a mission worthy of se eminent a person as the Lord Privy Seal, an object which ' had puzzled statesmen from the time of Elizabeth to that of Victoria. He had apparently succeeded; and with breath -1 less haste a bill was 1 relight into the other house and hurried through same of its stages, in February, to legalise that object. Since that time, the Popo had almost ceased to exist as a temporal prince ; still, it appeared the bill so long allowed to rest was now about to be brought before this bowie. An other quarter in which phis eminent diplomatist went to ex. mein his talents was the kingdom of the Two Sicilies. After " starring" it in the north and centre of Italy with eminent emcees, he had gone to the south. His object was to secure the legislative union of Naples and Sicily; the result had been to dissolve even all political connexion. (Hear, hear.) The result of this diplomacy had been more interesting than successful. Notwithatanding what had occurred, he under stood the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs was going to mediate in Northern Italy, along with France ; and he thought some information was due to the house on that subject,—first as to the principle of the mediation, second its nature, and third. the end proposed to be attained. The principle of the mediation might be a desire to stay the effu sion of blood, and to promote our commercial interests. But, in northern Italy, there was no effusion of blood to stop, and this country had no commercial interests to protect. The Emperor of Austria was in possession of the dominions secured to him by treaties; so WWI the King of Sardinia; consequently there was no opening for media tion, and the noble lord's task would be at an end. Dot probably the mediation, instead of proceeding on a political, would Le conducted on a sentimental principle—that of de veloping nationality. Into what inextricable difficulties and dangers might not such a course lead this country ! If Lam. barely should only be possessed by Lombards , why should Austria retain a far more extensive territory, that of the Venetian provinces? How could the noble lord preach na tionality in Lombardy, when in the north of Europe he was defending, and was bound to defend, Lemberg and other states from invasion? Miele not he also he collect on to mediate on this same ground of nationality is Hungary, where tour distinct races existed? If such a policy were fully developed Europe must be resolved into its pristine elements, and not a trace be left of existing political arrangements. In the second place, he wished to know the means by which this mediation was to be carried into effect. If it was to be en armed mediation, the hostile sovereigns being at present at peace between themselves, it would be an invasion, and not a mediation. If merely an offer of good offices, with what e race mild we ask the Emperor of Austria to relinquish part et his territory, which be had won by great valour of his troops, and held for three centuries ? Such a mediation would be an utter nul lity. But if it were euccessful,what was to be done with Lem hardy ? Remembering that the King of Sardinia had made war against Austria without any declaration of war, and had in consequence received the moot signal punishment, and was only allows d by meat forbearance to: continue in peseesaiou of his own mental, would any minister have 'he boldness to propose to Austria to concede Lom bardy to the King of Sardinia ? Assuredly net. Could Lombardy exist as an independent republic ? It could not he a monarchy, between two powerful states. If a re public, was it to be a revolutionary or a conservative repub lic—a red or a white republic? (Hear, hear.) But the end of this mediation, he was informed, was one which the government would not announce. Its object was said to be to prevent the invasion of the north of Italy by the French, an event much to be deprecated, and one which ministers might plume themselves on preventing. But France had no right to intervene; it would be a breach of all mining trea ties to do so, and a most unjustifiable act. lie did not be lieve such intervention would take place. As regarded Italy and Europe, France bad clearly no rght to interterc ; hut, ' unfortunately, our past conduct in the south of Italy fur nished a precedent and a pretext for this interference. The result of the cordial co-operation between Lord Minto and the King of tke Two Sicilies Lad been to prevent the latter from chastising his rebellious euhjeets, and to deprive him ol his rights. Since that time our government had approved of the sovereign chosen by the rebels, and had prevented the King of the Two Sicilies from asserting his rights. With such facts before her, France might plead a justification for her proposed invasion of the north of Italy. The noble lord opposite (L trd Palmerston) said they were not facts; but why were they allowed to be believed as facts? In both houses had information been r fused as to the instruc tions to the squadron in the south of Italy. But however the precedent might have been laid hold of by the French government, he did not think they would avail themselves of it. lie did not believe they wished to invade Italy ; they only sought, by accepting the offer of joint mediation, to im press Europe wish the belief that there was the most cordial understanding between the republic of France and the court of St. James's. (Hear.) Never had the conjoint influence of those countries been exercired but at the expense and suffeting of some third state. The principle of a cordial understanding between those countries, in itself nothing novel, was one which he should always support under proper regulation. So far from hostility between the two countries being the rule, it had been the exception for the last two centuries and a half. It wax a policy that had been asectioned by Elisabeth and by Cromwell and the two most eminent statesmen of the last century, Bolingbroke and Walpole, opposed to each other in everything else, concurred in supporting the French atiance. lie did not, therefore, condemn ministers for supporting a ' cordial understanding with the French government, ab• stractedly considered. The noble lord opposite (Russell) had spoken of the government of France as a strong govern- meet, though he had not informed the house that he had re• cognised its existence. No doubt the government of France was a strong government— now that Algiers governed the streets of Paris, and that General Cavaignac had tee- I cuted a monster razzia within the walls of the capital. I (Hear, hear.) But if the noble lord at the head ef the fo reign department was about to repeat the steps which the two governments had conjointly taken on former On. Ciaioll3, such a coarse would be sure to end in disappointment and disaster. If incidents were in vented to justify an occasion for co-operation, such an alliance might teed to the greatest possible disaYers in Europe. The nettle lord had tried this system before; he had tried it in 1832, but under very different circumstances; lie had tried it then in connexion with a monarch who sue. ceeded in keeping at bay the revolutionary tiger and pre serving the peace of Europe for 1; years. But on that occa sion the system had only led to the Hi-colour flag (hating at Ancona and Antwerp, to disasters in various countries of Europe, and to liritish commerce being disturb d in all those places. (Hear.) lie protested against the system of me diating where there was nothing to mediate about, merely to show that France and England were in cordial alliance. Such an alliance, instead of being a se curity for peace, would inevitably tend to war. In the event of an invasion of Italy, to give France the slightest chance of suttees, she must mom the Alps with 100,000 men ; nay, she must do more ; the very day that she sends bet army into Italy she must advance an army equally numerous to the Rhine, to meet there the independent spirit of Germane —forgetting in a moment all its nebulous mysticism and nationality, in the fervour of a real patriotism, and fired with the recollection of its desecrated hearths. She must do even more—she must meet Russia, at this mo ment not so powerful from her army as from her wisdom, moderation, and justice. She would have ale it to contend with the secondary powers; and how was France to do this —how was France to act in so frantic and idiotic a manner? Did her position at this moment enable her to send out a mighty host ? She had 50,000 men guarding her metropo lis. She had achieved her freedom on paper and secured it in ' the streets by her artillery. (Hear.) She had an army of occupation in every great city in her kingdom, under the plausible name of "`extraordinary garrisons." II Fiance increased her army and withdrew ter domestic forms to invade the world, the whole of her town population would rise to advocate the principles of the model republic, which perhaps her Majesty's ministers are going to establish in Milan. She must else men ate her taxation, and the whole of her provincial population would rise to prevent the continuance of a system as abetted es it was iniquitous. If she was to remove her present army she would have her whole urban population in arms, and it she increased it the provincial ' postulation would do the crime. Did they suppose that France, with her contending factions an 'empty exchequer, a paralysed credit, and a people without enthusiasm, was going to conquer the world Yet it was to prevent such a consummation that the government was going to same fice its allies. The system of mock mediation was one that this country ought not to encourage. The course which the noble lord (Palmerston) ought to pursue was one which he was competent to take, for he had the necessary abilities, knowledge, and courage, for the task. Let the noble lord merely tell the world, that under his counsel England would maintain the prieciples of national law, and observe the stipulations of existing treaties, that she would not authorise by her sanction any outraee on the order of nations, and that she would not counsel her allies to yield their legitimate in terests to gratify the morbid vanity of en ill-regulated society. If he pursued this course, then the noble lord would take a position that would obtain for him the confidence of states. men, the sympathies of sovereigns, and the hope and trust of suffering nations. But if be took a centime' coulee, he would not only say that it would be one which would be fatal to his government, for that would not he so great a considera tion in the house as among his immediate supporters, but it would be a course fatal to the noble lord's reputation, and deeply injurious to his country. Hu deprecated any alliance witt what he must call a Jacobin party, for in it he recognised the same features as of yore—he reco.nised the same system--he saw the same leaven and he used the same term. It seam. system beginning with fraternity and end ing with assassination ; which began by preaching universal charity and finished by achieving general spoliation, He It. The avw ea