The Express. — London, England, 1853-05-11 00:00:00

eo spicion (Hear, hear) The only iseonvitaienee would be, that ladies who were not eccustonsed to see any gentle man but the pricer, would have to see this gentleman ap p.,,oeed by the Secretary ut state, who, if be found soy I cat n steeled, could -ere out aha as wts. 11 • h.• wusiel balance the inconver is nee of such a so ot sit inset the reeutts t tat visit was intended to secure? In conslusion he appealed to parliament to afford these „, mo p. wit.; were altogether helpless of themselves and in power of parties who were wholly irresponeible, the b e nefit of the protection of the law. lie would urge them so do this seen for the sake of the institutions themselves, I , re lieve thon from the odium which, in the public mind, a tt a ched to them; and which, if something was not done ep „ r d i ty, would go on Me re 44 ing until something very dif ferent Irma • bill of this nature would hs requtnd. He s wish for leave to brim! is • bill to facilitate the s.mevery of p wool liberty in coolant eases. Mr. C. BERKELEY segeuded the motion. He was at a loss to couttiv• why this country should stand almeorith the exe.hgem of Spain and Italy, in regard to the law on tbo subj. et. The law had been allowed to remain in pre cisely the eines slam here as it was immediately after the Cowed of Trent, which, by its edict, declared that nun nertis should be defied, and all egress denied to the nuns ors a ny pretence, without episcopal liatnee, under pain of ca,ummunication. I t Mexico, where the population was wholly Roman catLoiio, nunneries were halite to inspec ton at frequent in Is; nail the nuns wets questioned by the 11111400 M as to whether they had any Cause of mem and whether they wished to withdraw from the L.,, ; but in the convents here not only was there no is specties, but the nuns were not allowed to see their friends. pie, no.) The hon. member might contradict him if he pleased. but he spoke of his owu positive knowledge, haviog himself been refund an interview with the nearest and dearest relative he had in the world (an inmate ef one of three e s tablishments), eseept in the presence of the lady superior. And Lot only was this the position of the nurse, but no "postulant " was permitted to see anybody, except in the presence of the lady ahbess. If hon. gentlemen knew as much to he did of whit occurred in connexion with these estaldiehencets, there would be no hesitation as to their vote in the present occasion. The young and un suspectiso and the confiding wire enticed into them, espe cially when there was any Ortune—the whole of which the moment the victim took the veal became the property of the convent, and the unfortunate owner had no prospect bet death of relief from her imprisonment. Mr. BOWYER believed the particular case alluded to by the hon. gentleman who hail just spoken was " not proven, sail iloouted his statement as to the position of • ' postu lant.- A " postulant - was not even in the position of • ...deice;" but was a lay person who might come in sal pa out of the convent as she pleased. The hon. and loseteed gentleman who made the motion usumeet that an lam were nu runaway nuns ever found hiding behind Wats from priests anxious to catch them and bring them beak t• t h e i r d u ngeons, that therefore the nuns were shut ap sod treated with cruelty. He (Mr. B.) should have thought that in this free country, where so many means existed of milsing known any tyranny or wrong that might bas perpetrated, the fact of there being no instance of nuns seeking' to escape from their convents was a proot of the utter groundlessness of the chair the hon. and leaned member had brought. The hon. and learned gen 'Masa had referred to certain cues—amongst others one that had been alluded to by • right rev. prelate in another place. That, however, was not the cage of a nun, but of a boy, and be had beard that the family of that boy forced themselves into the place where ho was confined, and found him dreadfelly hendlel. Out was there no prosecution— did the polies take no i.e.?* to bring the guilty parties to iustice F That they did not sufficiently as he thought d.- posed of the charge, and showed that it was a mere romauce invented for • purpose. Ile believed that whenever a case bed occurred is which an attempt hid been made to au thenticate it by names an I circumstances, it h id turned out • complete " mare's nest." Tne case of the convent of the " Used Shepherd," near London, was one in point. There the chores, on investigation, was found to be wholly greasiness, and he ought to add that the young pawn who made it he afterwards saw in the convent treated with the greatest kindness by the ladies she had so grossly maligned. The popular excitement against convents was ecirc.ly to be wondered at when they looked at the violent newspaper articles, pamphlets, and speeches di rected against them. He did nut say that there were no sash things as discontented nuns. It was possible there were, but tture were discontented of every class. With regard to the honourable and learned gentleman's argument that luuatic asylums, workhouses, rectories, and other places in which there were numbers of persons, were now liable to be inspected by the officerslij the law, that was answered by the fact that in all those esta blishments the persons in authority were acting under a power delegated by the law, and it was but just that th law should take steps fur ascertaining how that power was exercised. Bat a convent was in all respects in the position of • private house. The inmates became so voluntarily and of their own tree will, and there was no power to detain them if they wished to leave. (Cheers and Oh.") In some countries, it was true, there existed a legal author ity to detain the nuns in the convents, and there inspection wee provided, though he (Mr. Bowyer) by no mean, meant to say that even in such eases inspection was desirable. He would ask the house to consider the main provisions of this bill. The question was were convents to exist at all in this country ? If they were to be subject to the inspection of an officer appointed by a government—(for aught he knew a protestant Orange government, determined to do all in its power to annoy the catholic)—to go with a magistrate and pey into their convents, and to ask, perhaps, impertinent and improper questions—such • provision would be destructive ef the existence of these institutions altogether. (Hear, hear.) The nuns would all leave the country, and the advantages of convents as educational establishments—(and the ladies of the . . . . higher classes were educated almost exclusively in them, and the lower classes resorted to them extensively for inetraction)—would be lost. hi hells& ageeiaily, the convents conferred great advantages on the people. (Hear, hear.) The parents es* friends of the children educated in them bad also ages% and he should be happy to afford the honourable eelhewed member the means of visiting any convent be Owed, end jedging for himself how very different things were earned on in these institutions from what he supposed. They were republics in their government. All the officers, from the superior to the pottery's, and even the bishop, could not interfere with the perfect freedom of election. The postulants were also elected, and by ballot, and one black ball was sufficient to exclude. In short, it was as difficult for a lady to get into a first-rate convent as it was fur a gentleman to get into a tint rate club. The priest was the mere chaplain of the es tablishment, and had eo power of interference, while every nun had the power to write to the bishop under her own seal whenever she plea.ed, and her seal was held inviolate. With all these precautions it would be strange indeed if the suppositions of the hon. and learned gentleman were founded on anything more than his own imagination, and the imagination of those who took the same view. Mr. Serjeant MURPHY was sure that his hon. and -learned friend who brought forward the motion would sop on reflection that the popular feeling, on which he relied, was not founded on any investigation of feet*, but on mere idle rumour and unsupported calumny. There had been instances in his experience when the accusations against these establishments had formed the subject of inquiry in the courts of law, and the result had always been that those accusations were unfounded. He would ask, what reason was given fur the introduction of the bill by his learned friend. His learned friend talked of the affiliation of convents to these en the continent, and that nuns in comments in this country might be deported abroad. It might be supposed that we were living in the times described by Mrs. Radcliffe, and in which nuns were mysteriously conveyed away from one convent to another. But that argument was against his learned friend ; for he !aid that nuns did not enjoy liberty here, and yet he ob jected to their being deported to the very places where he said they could obtain it. On the last occasion that this question was before the house he (Mr. Serjeant Murphy) read a letter from Bishop Ullathorne, in which ha stated that there ware no such prohibitions in *es to the visits of relations of the inmates, bat that certain days of tho week were allotted for those visits. He (Mr. &desist Murphy) had three relations who were in con vents, and he always had atom to them, and was permitted to hold unreserved and confidential conversation with them alone. Nor was he a solitary instance, and he would assert that no one was ever denied such access. As to the care alluded to by the boa. member for Cheltenham, it was investigated by the Lord Chancellor, and he was of opinion that a proper discretion had been exercised towards a person who was a ward of the court. He (Mr. Murphy) denied that discontent existed in nunneries, and in his own experience, when travelling Om the Continent, he knew that in cases where there was full liberty of ingress and egress allowed to the nuns there was no desire on their part to ahead= their vows. If, then, there was no prohibition against the visits of relations to nuns, what difficulty would there be in any case in getting a habeaa corpus f Then, as regarded the education afforded by convents in Ireland, there was no Roman catholic lady of the middle ranks who did not owe her education to the convents ; and there was a class of nuns called the Order of the Presentation, who afforded an excellent education to the poorer classes of girls. If the inquisitorial system now proposed was adopted, those establishments would be put to flight, and the Roman catholic ladies of the middle and lower classes in England and Ireland would be in a state of educational destitution. The hon. and learned gentleman then alluded to the stories which had been propagated to influence the popular mind—suck as the history of Maria Monk, which, on investigation, turned out to be untrue. He appealed to the government, and especially to the noble lord the Home Secretary, not to sanction the introduction of the bill, which was an insult that would rankle in the breasts of every Roman catholic in the kingdom ; and he declared that any remissness on th4sart of the government in this respect would be viewed with so much disfavour by him, as to induce him to withdraw his support from those who would sanction such a measure. l Mr. • FREWEN, in reference to this question, mentioned a case which had come under his notice, and in which a clergyman in Susses was applied to for assistance and advice by • young woman who had escaped from • con vent. It appeared that she was born of catholic parents, hut having lived • good deal with an aunt of hers who was a protestant, she had been converted; on which her lather took her. against her will, to a cionv*, - ,,t, where she was de tained until finditg an oPPor t 7unity she made her mope. Ile mentioned this, Der ,4 "se A showed that the superiors of a convent had dctaie'ed a person there against her will, and therefore 'bin ought to be • law which permitted those ennvents tti be visited, in order to ascertain if arty one was dettlio , d in them against her will. Mr. NEWDEGATE said no one could be better qualified to answer the statements which had been male, with regard to convents, than the hon. number for Dundalk, who hg acted as secretary to Cardinal Wingate& t Mr. MOW YER-1 mover was secretary to Cardissl Wilt ' oran. Mr. NEWDEOATE begged the hun. gentleman's par don—then he was net so well qualified t) answer the speeches which had been made as ne thought. When the hon. me:nber fur Cheltenham rose and ►'ated frets with reference to a relation of his, the hon. member fur Dundalk gays them a flat eostradictiOn. Mr. BOW Yfr.:ll. explained that he bad not given • fiat contradiction to the hon. member. . . . Mr. NEWDBOATE—At any rats the hon. gentleman gave a gestated denial to the fact that there were any such rules in easiventa applicable to the relative of the hon. ram bler for Cheltenham. But would the hon. member for Dundalk suppose that the house would not believe the facts stated by the hon. member fur Cheltenham on his own knowledge, which were connected with • near relation of his, or that the house world be persuaded that that lady was not detained against her will, and that there was not • discrepancy between the ststements of Bishop Hendren and Mrs. Jerniogham as to whether she was • poculant ur not) lion. gentlemen who opposed this measure had taken the only course open to them, namely, to deny everything, He wished to know why the women of this country were not to be allowed the MMe liberty u those in other 03U11 tries. The hon. gentleman here read an eztr..ct Irons Liguori, which describes what a convent w a s t o • bad and . . discontented nun, and which ended by characterising it as a " hell upon earth." lie wou d tell Roman catholic mem bers that the people of this country would nut allow a " hell upon earth " for any person to exist here. There was no des're to interfere with ladies who wished to re- main in convents, but it was the duty of the legislature to tee that the liberty of the subject was respected in the cases of those who were unwil hog to remain. Lied J. RUSSELL deeply regretted that this question bad bi en brought before the House of Commons. A simi lar bill was submitted to the house two yens ago, and was then r jected : and there were equally strong grounds now for not entertaining such a proposal. (Cheers.) In the first place, it was to he considered that this was • country in which we boasted of our personal liberty, and in which we believed we had made ample provision fur the security of that personal liberty, not only as against the government and against those who by means of authority might detain subjects illegally, but as against individuals who by force or other means retained a person in custody against that person's will. Was it, then, true that Were was never theless one clan of persons with an insufficient security for their personal liberty : that to them Ilaheu Corpus and other wise acts were inapplicable; and that, consequently, for them a new sort of law was re quired ? He shou,d be sorry to come to such a conclusion, because, if that were so, then he would have to think that our laws must be generally insufficient, and that we would be obliged to provide, in other cases, and in other respects, greater securities than we at present possessed for personal liberty; that, in feet, thiscountry had not what it is supposed to have in regard to guarantees for the personal liberty of British subjects. (Hear.) He could not come to any such conclusion from the case which the lion. gentleman (Mr. T. Chambers) had made out. (The n.ble lord here gene ralised Mr. Chambers' argument.) Many of these ladies, he (Lord J. Russell) believed, entered these Romeo catho lic private homes from • spirit of sincere and deep deco tdu. They passed their lives in devout contemplation, soothing to them, and performing what they believed to be their duty to God—if not as they . (protestants) might think wisely, yet with great purity of intention, and with a spirit which ne man ought to speak of otherwise than respectfully. (Hear.) He would say that it was more natural to females titan to persons of his sex to entertain these deep feelings of devotion, and to believe that by retirement, by contemplation, and by prayer, and by penance, they were Cperformi , g a duty grateful to the Almighty. ( Hear, ar.) There were others of these ladies who devoted themselves to more active duties ; and if that house re• sweetest the pious intentions of one class, it could not but regard with approbation the practical services performed to the human race by the other. (Cheers.) Ile referred to those who superintended institutions for young girls, those girl+ being taught, not only religion, but useful arts by which they became industrious members of society; and ladies spending their lives in such a task, could not but obtain the praise of all men of all creeds. (Hear, hear.) There were others of these ladies who took vows of a special nature, and who devoted themselves to the most painful, and sometimes to the most disgusting duties of attendance on the sick • who watched night and day by the couches of disease, to alleviate its pains; and who were the best and gentlest of the assistants of the surgeon and the physician. (Hear, hear.) Such being the case, he was asked aot whether he approved of these institu tions, because upon that subject he would cer tainly exercise his protestant judgment; hut he was asked whether he would interfere by law in order to put special restrictions and submit to special examination, the bosses in which these ladies have chosen to live. (Hear, bear.) The hon. gentleman who had last spoken had pointed out one great defect, in regard to which he (Lord J. Russell) as a protestant could not but agree with him, and which not only attached but appeared to be inseparable from institu tions of this nature. It could not but happen that young ladies, who entered these convents in the ardour of the enthusiasm of youth, or upon the persuasion of relations (and in catholic countries he bad observed instances of such persuasion being used) might afterwards look back with regret to the world they had left and might even deplore that they had bound themselves to such a life by their stringent vows. This was to be regretted ; the sym pathies of society could not but be with sueh unhappy ladies; but when hon. gentlemen said " we will not per mit in this free country such things to take place," they went far beyond the remedy proposed in the bill which was asked to be brought in, and they proposed a remedy of • totally different nature. The hon. gentleman (Mr. New degate) had quoted from Liguori ; but it was quite evident that such exhortations and such arguments were not grounded upon threats of fetters or manacles, or sub terranean dungeons ; they were addressed to sensitive per. sons, to the mind and heart, and superstitious feelings, and the impression intended to be produced was that those who had taken such solemn vows had no right lightly to viol ste such engagements. (Hear.) Certainly, however, he (Lord J. Russell) agreed with the hon. gentleman, that the use of such exhortations would hardly reconcile those ladies who were in doubts about the wisdom of the choice of life they had made. If he was asked his opinion as to the injurious consequences, as evidenced in such mental struggles, of these institutions, as a protestant he could not but go with the hon. gentleman. But when he was asked to assent to a law on the subject, and when it was contended that in this free country such things could not be permitted, he was bound to tell the hon. gentleman that the only law which could prevent such things would be • law forbidding the existence of convents altogether. (Hear.) Practically the remedy proposed would be no remedy. These ladies might refuse the inspector to be sent down any explanation ; to each an official they would be very un willing to detail the struggles of their conscience ; and if the inspector were to say—" The doors shall be thrown open to you—you shall go again into the world —you are free ;" the answer would be—" You are totally mistaken in my eau, it is not an affair of confinement, it is not bolt, bar, or lock, which restrains me, it is my seise of obligation to observe sacredly my vow." (Hear, hear.) Frideatly, therefore, such a machinery would be utterly inefficient for the purposes contemplated. (Hear, hear.) Evidently, therefore, also, unless the legislature was to my that it would not permit the existence of convents, it could not reach the evil which arose out of such institutions. (Hear, hear.) Now the law had so far permitted these convents to be founded and to flourish; and seeing the consolation which they afforded to so many ladies, and seeing also the practical benefits which in many cues they conferred upon the community at large, he was disposed to leave that question to the opinions and to the sense of right of the Roman catholies themselves, and he would strongly object to any interference by law. (Cheers.) The house , then, cams to the more intelligible evil described by the hon. gentleman, via., of persons being actually confined in convents against their will—for ced , by absolute physical means, to remain in those houses. On that point, certainly, the evidence of fered was not extensive. (Hear, hear.) Three or four cases had been referred to ; but they wen net of a positive character; the test of crossamemination of witnesses had not been applied to them ; and they were, therefore, of little worth, assuredly without that positive proof which the house would require before it consented to legislate. (Hear, hear.) The 1100. member for Cheltenham (Mr. C. Berkeley) had mentioned an instance in which he had not been allowed to see • near relation residing in • convent, except in the presence of the Lady Superior ,• but, as far as he (Lord John Russell) could make out, that was a cue in which private feelings influenced, sad which did not illustrate any general law. (Hear, hear.) Such a case, essentially of a private and domestic nature might have happened to any prates. tent young lady, tithing refuge with • relative, say her aunt, and refusing to tee other relatives except in the com pany of that mint. (Hear, hear.) But there was another and conclusive reason why the house should resist this mo tion. The argument was that ladies were retained by force, that personal liberty was denied them, and that it called for the whole power of the British parliament to give them freedom. Now we lived after all in a free country ; and persons of the Roman catholic faith, Eoglish subjects, did undoubted value the liberties of their country ; and those persons, valuing the principles of personal liberty, must have a value, above all, for the happiness and the comforts of their sisters and other* of their female relatives who became nuns. (Cheers.) He (Lord J Russell) was not to be told that the Roman catholio gentry of England and Ireland were 40 utterly dead to a sense of the principles of po litical freedom, or were so destitute of the com mon affections of men, that they wor;td willingly see all the laws for securing personal liberty set at naught, and see the doctrine of slavery practised, r.r that they were without the heart, were such things done in these convents as were lightly alleged, to stand up in that house and to denounce such tyranny. (Cheese.) He was, on the con trary, very fully convinced that if the evil alleged existed to any extent, or if it even easl o , be proved in the few cans adduced, the Roman catholic members of that house would be the first to entreat the intervention of parliament. (Cheers.) For these reasons he would op pose the introduction of the bill of the hon. gentleman, and not alone on the ground that no sufficient case had been mode, for the objection went • good deal further. It was not only to be observed that those of the Roman catholic persuasion did not themselves ask for interference on behalf of those of their relatives whom protestant gentlemen in sisted were forcibly detained in prisons ; but it was also evident that Homan catholics would feel it a serious injury —and, indeed somewhat of an in sult—if ;.; was attempted to pass such a bill as that now proffered into a law. (Hear, hear.) lie would, therefore say, if a law was revised on the subjeet, it must be in the form of a remedy, which would apply to the whole patinas—(",hear, bear, from the oppositicru;— THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING. MAY 11, ` 1853 the habess comes mast be rendered sash complete—and there must he new facilities for individuals going before a judge, and declaring eases, be the clue those of protestant or catholic, of unlawful detentions. (Hese bear.) But thee, this war not the sort of remedy proposed by tne hon. gentleman—(hear);—and when such a complete remedy was proposed it would be time enough for the houso to discuss :t. The remedy of the boo. gentleman ens merely 1 to give a Secretary of State power to send down to a convent an inspector armed by his wanent with full functions for' investigating; and in certain cases such a power might be exercised unfortunately or unfairly. Such a remedy, an anomaly in the ordinary law of the land, might be put is force hy a Secretary of State at a moment when a gust of popular passion directed attention to a cue of imaginary wrung—(hear)—and that Secretary of State might be the organ of a party justly' disposed to the Romeo catholic,; but, on the other hand,he might be acting under the influ ence of a majority decidedly unfavourable to persons of that creed. (Hear, hear.) And, at any time, such a power could not be exercised without exciting feelings of deep in dignation on the part of Roman esthetics, who could only consider that their religious institutions were being unduly interfered with, for no purpose of public policy, still lees for any purpose of public necessity. (Cheers.) Some symptom of such feelings hod been given in the declarations of two hon. members that evening, and the house had heard that if such an inspection were pressed by parliament the iumates of those religious houses in England and Ire land would fly to other countries, and would take refuge where their home would be more inviolate. Such a result would be must unfortunate, for the strongest feelings of re sentment would be excited among the Roman catholic gen try of the two kingdoms ; and it was obvious that the lower order', now benefiting by the minis trations of those ladies, would not observe such an exile without taking for granted that parliament had inflicted a grievous wrong. (Hear, hear.) Fur these rea sons, he would repeat the vote he had given two years ago, and oppose the introduction of this bill. (Loud cheers.) Lord E. HOWARD felt himself compelled, by the refer ence which had been made (by Mr. C. Berkeley and by Lord J. Russell) to a case intimately concerning himself, to say a few words on this question. (Loud cries of "hear, hear.") The hon. member for Cheltenham smoke of the case as that of a near and dear relative. She was a still nearer and still dearer relative of his, and be could not per mit that case to be improperly represented. (The noble lord spoke with feelings of strong excitement.) The hon. gentleman bad said that he had been prevented seeing that lady when she was in a convent. He (Lord E. Howard) had had no time, and did not care to inquire how the facts stood with regard to the prevention; but this he did know, and would say, that the lady bed had no wish whatever to see the hon. gentleman. (Cheers.) The hon. gentleman apposite (Mr. Newdegate) had taken upon himself to say that the lady had been de tained against her will at the convent at Taunton. [Mr. Newdegate explained that he had merely referred to the correspondence in the public papers.] Ho was not aware whether such of the correspondence as had been published could at all justify such a representation : but he begged distinctly to say this—and he was no bad authority—that it was not true that the lady had ever been detained against her will. (Cheers.) Again and again since she left the con vent had she expressed herself in the warmest terms as to the happiness she had enjoyed at Taunton, and of what she had seen of the peace and happiuess enjoyed by others It was disgraceful—disgusting and disgraceful—that his private affairs should thus he brought forward in the House of Commons—(Loud cheers)—but after what had been said he was bound to tell the house these facts, and so get rid of all such fallacious accusations. (Loud cheers.) The lady in question still carried on a correspondence with many of the esteemed inmates of the convent at Taunton, and al far as that one case went, he hoped, therefore, that the house would agree with him that no argument for this bill could be founded on it. (Hear, hear.) As regards the other cues, he had no doubt they were just as baseless; and as far as he could see, no foundation whatever had been made for the proposed measure. Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that he very much disliked the bill which bad been introduced two years ago on this subject, and he felt great difficulty with regard to the pre sent one, because he believed that even if carried it would be who lly inefficacious. He did not think it was in the power of any legislation b effect an amelioration, because it was not possible to separate that which was good front that which was bad in monastic institutions. (Hear.) He did not go the length that many persons did in blaming them, because he had an opportunity of seeing the ad vantage of Sisters of Charity abroad. (Cheers.) They tended the sick and wounded in foreign hospitals, and many persons recovered owing to their care ; whereas in this country many sick and wounded died for want of similar care. (Hear.) When they brought in the Ewen dpation Act, they thought to suppress monasteries and Jesuits; but there they were, laughing in your face. (Hear, hear.) His objection to these institutions applied to protestants as well as to Roman catholic.. Ile did net look at the (motion as • matter between sects, or even as • gsestion of Christianity. But he laid down this broad abstract doctrine—that it never could be right under nay circumstances So lock up a number of women in a house with bolts and bars, and give the key of it to ono man. (" Hear, hear," and laugh ter.) lie did ntt care whether he was protestant or Roman catholic, priest or layman; that was a thing which he objected to. (Hear, hear.) But he would be asked, where are the bars and chains in this country ? Perhaps nowhere abut then in this country theltoman catholic* had net their: own , way ; they were under the eyes or pro tean's. (Hear * , hear.) But the establishment of these menestis institutions was a step towards giving them their own way. (Hear, hear.) The difficulty of his position was that they could not get cases of hardship in the insti -1 Wiens of this country ; but he could cite cases after cases hoes foreign countries where there were no protestant eyes M watch. (Hear, hear.) The object of these mull ' lotions was to lamas. the Popish territory, and to extend the Roman catholic religion, and not, as the noble lord mid, to afford a retreat for pious devotion. Toe only effec ted remedy in this case was one for which he believed the seuntry was not prepared—the suppression of these monastic iestitutions altogether. (Hear, hear.) The Roma& esthetic church was determined to establish the canon law , in this country, and the people of this country were equally determined that it should not. (Hear, hear.) Let each party deal frankly with the other, let sack get credit for sincerity and for wishing to state the truth on the ques tion at issue. (Hear, hear.) As to the bill itself, he con fessed he did not like it. (Hear.) Mr. LUCAS wished to express his acknowledgments for the generous and able speech of the noble lord—(hear, hear)—a speech which must have settled the question is the mind of every rational man. (Hear, hear.) The case of the hon. and learned gentleman had completely fallen through. (" Hear, hear," and " Oh.") No facts had been stated, no ease had been made out for legislation. , (Hear, hear.) Indeed no rational attempt had been made to prove a ease. (Hear, hear.) The only attempt at • semblance of a case was that of the hon. and learned gentleman who told the house that he was wholly destitute effects and truth, and because that he was so, he wanted , parsons to go and visit the convents. He hoped that every sandhi and rational man would unite and express by a large majority that this attempt at legislation was founded an a bad public opinion out of doors, and he was sure that , Kit received any great support from them it would not do , any credit to the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) Mr. WHITESIDE said that his objection to the bill was that it treated in a narrow way every large subject. (Hear.) Mb bill would not be efficacious, but he was sure the time Met erne when this subject mast be dealt with in a large ed amigoehensive way, with a view to securing per maellwerrtr and the free transmission of property. (Rear.) Mr. hoped, from the manner in which the model' had been met by the government, that this would be the lest attempt to introduce in that house religious discord and animosity. Lord C. HAMILTON thought the public having the sub ject impressed upon their gaud, would not rest utilities' with the present state of the law, ludas it were shown that the opinions they had formed were without foundation. Sir R. INGLIS mid his noble friend the member for the City of London had meet adroitly omitted what he had re saved credit for from the hon. and learned member for Enniskillen (Mr. Whiteside)—namely, a reference to the law of forage countries, which was, is fact, the most im portant part of the whole question. When they were told Shahan one end of Europe to the other there had been howl a uniform and constant necessity for • measure ana logous to that which the house was now invited to adopt, he tiouglat that in that fact alone there was a ground for in- todereace which it would be very difficult to resist. In Seem catholic, no less than In protestant countries, it had boo found necessary to have legalcontrol. Mr. T. CHAMBERS then replied. He must say his motion had been met by the most systematic evasions he had ever heard. His case was, that civil liberty might be infringed in conventual establishments. Up rue his hon. friend the member for Cork (Kr. Papa) and vindicated the purity of such places, which had not been called in question at all. That was the first instance of evasion. The question was one of liberty, not one of purity. (Hear.) He was told that his system was one of inspection, whereas in fact it was not. The hos. member for Meath (Mr. Lau.) said that what he proposed was ex ceptional and insulting. It was not exceptional, and thv.refor• not insulting. (Hear, hear.) None of the (moot tents had ventured to combat any one of the reasons wh'.ch he assigned. The fault to be found with the noble le.rd (Lord J. Russell) wits that he omitted to do what the hon. member for Enniskillen supposed he had done well knowin g . everything about the continent, he had avoided referring to it in the least. The noble lord him self furnished him with an instance of evasion. The greater part of his speech was occupied in complimenting devout nuns who led a life of retirement, and active nuns who were so often seen moving about the streets. He (Mr. T. Chambers) had impugned the conduct of neither of these classes. (Hear, hear.) It was said that inspection would drive all these institutions to the Continent. Au hon. member for one of the divisions of Eau had just informed him that for 20 years his father, Wog • magistrate of Sussex, visited • nunnery constantly twice a year, the reason of this being that the nunnery re ceived a certain sum of money from abroad on the condition that the nuns were proved to be there ; and it appeared that they were all received by the hon. member's father, and counted by him, to use his own expression, as they passed through a door, like sheep coming out of a fol.o. That neither frightened them, nor did them any hum (Laughter.) The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) bed difirbed, in most felicitous terms,what a bill for this • u rouse i" • 0 should be. It was not a open to the noble 'lmre J to amend the je etion. The noble lord said tte proper bill ). :e ono habea s c"',..ss. Now, that sou 'ermine& the object of his bill. I : s ne'noble lord farther said that if the common law co",d not moist this case it would not meet any. But this was a special case, as was that of factory children. ("Divide.") Hs would not further detain the home. Sir J. TYHELL addressed a few words to an impatient jet* for inquiry, though he tbooght the inquiry ought more to have been directed to the caulk s w loch I led to the presentation, rather than to those which led to the withdrawal of the petition. (Hear, hear.) But he thought the proper moment had not been chosen for the proposition, considering, in the first place, the long delay I In making the motion alter the presentation of the petition, tad its subsequent withdrawal ; and considering also that the motion was made so immediately before the sitting of an election committee to inquire iuto circumstances inti mately connected with the subject which the house had now been discussing. (Hear, hear.) Apart from all this, , however, he founded his objection to • decision, at the preseat moment, on the fact that au hon. gentleman had that evening given notice of • motion, fired for the 31st of May, fur • general inquiry into all cases of this kind ; : atid, under these cit cumstances, he would move that this debate be adjourned to that day, and the inquiry in this instance then, of course, to merge into the general inquiry. The house divided— For adjournment Against it The debate was accordingly adjourned. ELECTION PETITIONS. - - homes explanatory el the eireamelomile wean shish his to my that the sesether for Rut Surrey owght to late father had paid its of impudent to New-ball Con- have brought forward bb motion for • eommittee of inquiry vent. The hon. baronet was big to describe • on an earlier day. It was clear teem what had occurred Roman catholic book, w hi c h, as t e n;: li ged, contained must toolight that there would be no opposition to such is coin disgusting details, but was interrupted by the universal mittee ef inquiry, and he would suaseat to the hon. num cell for a division. bee fur East Sure, y to move at once ter the committee, so The house divided. that they might inquire without delay into the withi'.raw al For the motion Against it The announcement of the numbers was received with to withdraw his motion, on the understanding that the loud cheers. whole matter should be inquired into. PARLIAMENTARY OATHS. Mr. L. KING said that the reason ho had not brought Mr. J. BALL, with the permission of the house, with- forward his motion was that he was told that there were so drew his motion on this subject. many committees sitting, that it would be impossible to do TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND). so with effect, and that it would be opposed; but if the Mr. V. SCULLY obtained leave to bring iu • bill to face house was prepared to agree to it, he would move it now if Mate the transfer of land in Ireland. he could do so. THE BALLOT. The SPEAKER said that as notice of the motion was Mr. 11. BERKELEY p os tp one d hi s mo ti on o n th e b a ll o t. Risen for a particular day, it could not be made before that METROPOLITAN BRIDGES. da y . Mr. OLIVEIRA postponed his motion upon Metropo- Sir J. TROLLOPS said that the appointment of the whole of the election committees would ho finished by the itan Bridges until Tuesday, the 24th instant. lest day of this month, for, unless any other petitions were CUSTOMS SEIZURES. Mr. GREOSON m ove d f or • re t urn , u p t o the present vid preed f sen tedor. ,at this moment there were only eight to be pro time, of the number of seizures or prosecutions made or Sir J. SHELLEY said, having been so pointedly alluded e n e t t i h o o n e o ise f dteba,g t r b e e be C eee om , m p er p io pe n r e , n en o d l E ee z ff e ee ise : f d o i r et t i te ge ad ie u b l i t e e g - to by the hem. member fo. Walli I rel ho wished few - words. It was am ost unwarrantable attack m ej ad e e ey on e the seizures or prosecutions for adueteratem of coffee under 1 ' by the hon . • - • • 1101 gentleman when he was month by listening the Treasury Order of the 3rd day of August, 1852 ; and to what was said by g entlemen op • dit • d posite,an require great any seizures or prosecutions under the Treasury Order of attention on his gentlemen on the 25th day of February, 18.33, for sales of mixtures of site were sincere in their desire for • ' Y purity of election. It chicory and coffee without the required labels (ia continua- seemed to him that a miserable attack had been made on tion of Parliamentary Paper, No. 647, Ft of -madam 1851). Messrs. Brown and Coppock, after their having refused to The hee• member, who spoke in • low tone of voice, was prosecute a member of that house also was proved' understood to complain of the prevalence of adulteration in have been 'of •to guilty bribery. It was high time the articles mentioned in his motion, and of the inefficiency that some other tribunal should be fiend to try election of the recent Treasury order in preventing them. The p etitions , and he was sure the Id that • country world see it was hos. menthe r also stated that the consumption of coffee had • • high time to adopt some other mode of voting at elections. iiiseesmied in consequence of the facilities for adulteration. (Hear, hear.) The attacks should not be confined to Mr. HUME did not mean to oppose the motion, but re- Messrs. Brown and Coppock, but extended to every agent' =that the hon. member should make any attempt to in every town in the country. Ile would say that out of the perfect freedom of commerce. He considered th e house it was not believed that the house was anxious fur the laws ai ag nst fraud to be quite sufficient protection punt) of election, when on an occasion that a member was against the adulterations aimed at by the hon. member's r owe l to have beenguilty of bribery, only 77members o f motion, that house supported a motion to prosecute him. If he was Mr. WILSON did not oppose the motion, but defended to propose to prosecute Mr. Bremridge, who had been the bona fides of the government in carrying out the laws proved to have been guilty of personal bribery, would gee, against adulteration. During the last two months there had tlemen opposite support him? (Hear, hear.) Ile would been 1,564 inspections, 94 convictions aad penalties, 135 test their sincerity by putting a notice en the paper of a punishments of • minor description, and, at the court held motion to prosecute bk. Bremridge. (Hear, hear.) yesterday, there were 33 convictions. With respect to the Mr. PIGOTT, as the seated member for Bridgnorth, consumption I f coffee, instead of decreasing, it had in- wished to state what took place at the end of the trial of creased from three to six millions. the election petition. At the end of a nine days' inquiry After a few words from Mr. GazosoN, he asked the agent for the petition what case he had against The motion was agreed to. him, aad he replied, " None whatever, but unless both BARNSTAPLE ELECTION. members had been petitioned against a commission would Mr. 0. STANLEY moved—Address to her Majesty, not have been granted." (Hear, hear.) lle therefore stood praying that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to issue there se the butt of Mr. Coppock. 1 • commission to inquire into corrupt practices which took Mr. W. 0. STANLEY doubted whether the house was place at the late election for the borough of Barnstaple. in earnest in their proceedings against corruption. There Commissioners' names, Michael Prendergast, Esq., Q.C., was a sessional order on the books which stated that "if Sir John Eardley Eardley Wilmot, Bart., and Leotric Tem- any one was elected or returned to that house by means of ple, Esq. The hon. member stated that bribery had existed bribery and corrupt practices, the house would proceed at previous elections for Barnstaple, and that the attention with severity against the persons concerned." Ile Lad al of the house had been called to the case of this borough on ready given notice of his intention to call attention to previous occasions. It was proved before the committee circumstance which tended to criminate a late member of that • general system of treating and corruption prevailed that house. Three cases of bribery by members had been at the last election. reported to the house this session, and one was reported to- Mr. L. KING seconded the motion, which was agreed to. night stronger than an of them. Would the house notice DURHAM ELECTION. such • flagrant cue ? (Hear, hear.) During the di.cussions Mr. BENTINCK moved for a select committee to inquire in this session on the subject of corruption, attempts had into the circumstances under which the petitions against been made to palliate it, saying that both sides were equally the return of William Atherton, Esq., and Thomas Colpitta bad. He did not believe they were equally bad on both Grainger, Esq., for the city of Durham, have been with- side*. (" Hear, hear," and "Oh.") Constituencies were drawn, and that the petition of certain electors of the city of not corrupt in themselves, but it gentlemen drew large Durham, presented to this house on the 20th day of April, sums from their bankers, and gave them to their agents, and be referred to the said committee. At the general election then sat down in the house congratulating them in July, Mr. Grainger and Mr. Atherton were returned for selves that they were not guilty of bribery, Durham—Lord Vane being the defeated candidate. In what could be expected ? The country would August Mr. Grainger died. On 23rd November +petition not believe that the house was sincere in its professions until was presented against the return of Mr. Atherton, and on they acted up to the sessional center. If the reports pre the 25th—the last day for presenting petitions—another rented to the house were to be only waste paper, it would petition we. presented from two electors, who had sup- be better to put an end to election committees. and proclaim ported Grainger and Atherton, complaining that the return that they meant to be corrupt and maintain corruption; against Mr. Grainger was void, and claiming but he hoped to see the house determined to take such the seat for Lord A. Vane. The agent of measures as that no parliament should ever again be this petition was Mr. Coppock, and there was but returned by means of such corruption as the last was. one surety ; and after the presenting of this petition the Mr. EGERTON said that after the speech of the hon. other was withdrawn. He contended that the 'object of gentleman the sooner the house got rid of the discussion of present;ng this second petition was to obtain the withdrawal these matters the better, for when an hon. gentleman, is of the petition 'Against Mr. Atherton, and to stay the issuing the position of a judge—(" hear, hear," and great cheer of the writ. At the subsequent election Lord A. Vane was ing) told them that corruption on one side returned, and he ban been petitioned against by the same of the house was greater than on the other electors and through the same agency of Mr. Coppock. He —(" hear, hear," and loud cheers)—he said, for thought he had stated sufficient to show that a gross vie- the dignity of the house and the good consideration latiou of the right of petitioning had been committed. and in which it should be held in the country, the that the house ought to institute inquiry. sooner they had judges who laid aside violent language like Mr. M. CHAMBERS opposed the motion. The hon. that—(" hear, hear," and great cheering)—the better for member bad omitted to state that the other petition was all Parties. He was not there to justify any corruption ; witdrawn by Mr. Brown, the conservative agent. It was be only wished that all eases should be considered fairly aad not till after the general committee of selection had ap- impartially, and be thought the subject brought forward by pointed the day for naming the select committee on the the hon. member for Norfolk ought to be considered, for petition against the recent return of Lord A. Vane that the proceedings of the last six months had tended to lower any impropriety in the proceeding had been discovered. If committees of the house in the eyes of the country. He the committee were granted the inquiry would be useless, only rose to say that if judges were to sit on those matters as it could not affect the election of July last. (Hear.):. their language should be of &different kind. (Load cheers.) I Mr. MILES condemned the conduct of the agents on Mr. W. 0. STANLEY said that he never stated that one both aides who had brought .orward petitions without the side of the house was more corrupt than the other. slightest aide, 'Handl. H e thought, however, there was Mr. S. HERBERT deprecated the fixing any charge of an allegation in this case, into which the house ought to this kind, on one side of the house or the other. Since this inquire. Here was a case in which a petition was presented question had been brought forward, members of all politi against Mr. Grainger, who had died and claiming the seat cal feelings - had spoken, and all had concurred in the IN the reign of CHARLES IL, one of the most for Lord Adolphus Vane, who had not been consulted• opinion that the question brought forward by the member despotic and profligate Kings that ever sat upon the This was playing with the House of Commons, and when for Norfolk was worthy of consideration ; but he thought throne of England, an Act was passed which is fre they heard that Mr. Coppock went about with 20 or 30 elec- that the suggestion that the motion should be referred to quently spoken of as another Magna Charts. It is tion petitions in his pocket, it was clear the whole system the committee which was to inquire into the whole ques tio n was rotten and required revision. Instead of casting impu- entitledthe Habeas of the withdrawal of petitions was • proper one ; and the Corpus Act. 'the purport of this unions against members of parliament they ought to look feet of an election committee being about to try a petition law is to declare that in cases of alleged illegal con to the agenty. against the return of the member for Durham, was another finement a writ may be obtained, directed to the Sir J. TROLLOPE, as chairman ef the general nom- reason for postponement, and he hoped the house would person who illegally detains another, commanding mittee of selection, stated that his experience there had adopt the 'ne gation. shown that that committee bad been made thestalking horse Mr. T. BUNCOMBE did not think there was anything such person to produce the body of his prisoner, to for abusing the privileges of the house, tampering with the worthy of consideration in the motion of the member for state tho day and the cause of his caption and deten right of petitition, making compromise, and in short, of Norfolk. It amounted to this, that, on 25th December, tion, and to do. submit to, and receive whatsoever serving the purpose of the agents , instead of prosecuting a petition was presented against the return of • dead the Judge or Court that awards the writ shall direct. bona tads inquiries. As there was an opportunity now member, and that was complained of ; then it was That such a law as this—which is, after all, only offered to the house of showing its displeasure of such withdrawn, and that was complained of. It was not alleged et . a re-affirmation of a great principle enshrined practices, he trusted the matter would not be passed over. that it was withdrawn without the consent of the pe el- g _ Mr. HEADLAM considered if they appointed& coin- tioners, as in the case of Norwich, and that made all the in Magna Charts, — should have passed in the reign mines in this cue, th ey must do so in every ease when an difference. He would ask, had there beea no petition now of a man who car ed for no mortal's liberty but his election petition was withdrawn. against the sitting member for Durham, would this motion own, shows pretty clearly how deeply rooted was Mr. MALINS admitted that the parliamentary agents have ever been heard of ? If everything that was alleged k the idea of personal freedom in the English mind. were a useful body of men, but urged that they must be was proved, what would be dons to Mr. Brown and r. T his law protects sane persons. The humanity of taught to trust the House :of Commons, and not to avail Coppock, who had only acted within the letter of the law ' modern times further : it introduces regulations en the inquiry went; further, and it was asked who in- goes themselves of the right of petitioning against election re- Wh en turns to serve their own purposes. He supported the motion. strutted the agents, it would be found that it was a little for the protection of thoinsane. The Commissioners The bon. member then went on to express his surprise that coterie at the Carlton Club, presided over by the hon. and of Lunacy are bound to inspect every house used as the hon. member for Westminster was not present. (D ears gallant colonel opposite, who regulated the proceedings and a receptacle for lunatic patients at least four times hear.) [Sir John Shelley here intimated that he was in his directed the agents whether they were m to githdra b w the in the year. Their visits may bo made at any hour place.] He wondered, then, that the hon. member had not petitions or not, and so Mr. Brown and r.C oppoc k wereof the day or night, and no part or . risen to express his virtuous indignation at this case, and not so much to blame. In the . Norwich inquiry Mr. Bro wn e y vindicate:tho purity of election. (Hear, hear.) But no was described as the legal adviser of the Carlton Club— the house is free front inspection. We are doubt it was with him as with other persons in the coin- that he was in the habit of sitting in one of the washing very jealous, it appears, then, with regard to =any, there was one rule for his friends and another for rooms there or in some pigeonhole as the adviser of the t h e t rea t men t b o th o f alleged criminals and alleged his enemies. (Hear, hear.) If the hon• member could sit hon. and gallant colonel and th . e late Secretary at War the ' lunatics. We take care that the morally and ember for Essex. Of course he submitted to them when men quietly by and tolerate such practices as these, he (Mr. Ma- m tall_ y incapable shall have fair play. ti tion to be withdrawn or presented , and let not has) could only draw a conclusion against his love of purity a pe tion . was . fell of election. (Hear, hear.) He put it to hon • pntlemen all the indignation on . the agent s ,. but let some of it fall Mr. T. CHAMBERS, last night, brought befor e opposite, if they were sincere in their professions, to . _ take on those who pulled the wires, and it would be found that the notice of the House of Commons the cos se tins opportunity of marking, with their disapprobation, they were pulledby members of that house. (Hear.) of a class of persons, who, without being t ‘ c.. Colonel FORESTER said as the hon. gentleman had such practice' as these. (Hear, hear.) cased either of moral or mental incapacity, ! are Sir C. WOOD said, if they were to proceed in matters in ex Lana alluded to him, he wished to • few wor d s p of this sort with anything like judal harmony, they ought den. The hon. member state that Mr. Brown was yetplaced beyond the operation of those bum one . re his legal adviser, and that questions as to the withdrawal provisions which the law has in store for the p ,t ec .. to avoid the tone taken by the b ees, gentleman who h ad of petitions were decided by him (Colonel Forester).honour . It tion of criminals and lunatics. The . able lust sat down, who had chosen to make a personal attack on a t e bon friend the member for Westminster, simply to was unfair in the hon. member who sat on the Norwich gentleman hes, in short, taken up the cause o! : the create a party feeling, and that was not the tone and temper committee of inquiry to bring his name before the house, nuns of England. Sober-minded Protestants w ill lift In which the house ought to proceed in these matters. outside a nn that he had nothing to do with the til after up their hands in astonishracnt at the very desig- With regard to what had fallen from the hon. member for withdraw of the Norwich petition an ' bl he t f the class which Mr. A taken place. The honours e mem r na ion 0 CnAtosstis wt sties to Somerset, and the right hon. gentleman the member for it ha d ' that now stated that he had given directions to Mr. protect. They will be 'still more shocked . at the Lincelasbire, it would meet with no opposition from Brown about it—[Mr. Dunoombe—No, I did not . say so.] honourable gentleman's statistics, TheT will be side of the house. The system of presenting petitions and hear)—and that Mr. Brown consulted with him on • counter-petitions, for the purpose of pairing them off, was (hear, . . . reved to hoar, that at a time when our co ionise are withdrawal of petitions. (Hear,hear.) lie had . admitted by both sides of the house to be a gross abuse. tae e do w ith it. Mr. Brown was emp l oyed as an ing stunted in their growth fie want of a number (Hear, hear.) He would not defend that side of the house, no thing to , he received his order his of women sufficient to restore the halal ,ce between agent, and who had their share of Mr. Coppook ' e es the other side had electioneenng age om 55.... to Mr. . l d female sex th were' at -fi Ito , el* are y ye their share of Mr. Arown's proceedings, which were not client, and act" . thoseorders . . regard r“.ll.o.oa Forester ) the Ina e all creditable to either side. In the case before the house a Brown, he had certainly acteetwitn him (U i to l e man Cathd,..n convents in England and 'Wales. They petition had been presented against the return of —(hear , hear)—and helped him with .. regard he . e l ec tions will be still more surprisr4 and more shocked to hear of petitions, at moose 31r. Atherton on the 23rd, and a petition against pr evious e tot e presenting • to do with petitions to the ouse— that if ' tile. CHAMBERS' s statement is true, there are Lord Adolphus Vans on the 26th, for the purpose of he h. Forester bed nothing to do wih rhea —( cheer )— and no lout than 100 .I .nglo-Catholic nunneries pro pairing them off. If any complaint was made it ought to havingden ted be against the withdrawal of the petitions. (Hear, -hear.) the ch arge made by .41 hon . the member was not what it fessir s w to be r' ded" b the principles of the A y There was, however, something a little suspicious in the t hat he badsat on the ought to have been, coesi ering . _ )Cb 'Ara of Eoeind, but holding 3,I)00 femalesiE committee of inquiry which he ( Cot Forester Unwed' bringing forward this motion, because if it was bona Norwich f ".. state of me%,tal and bodily subjection. The quer. Ars, ss the matters to which it related happened in D e - attended. (Hear, hear.) Mr. T. BUNCOMBE said the hon. and gallant g entle . , tion moots.' b Mr . CliAmnelP last night in the ember, it ought to have been brought forward before this; moots ; ' y and Ise thought it might be considered that the election man had misunderstood him. He did not say that the In„ . cetewer.a (and which was ►tiroimht fe" - ward in 'sae which was now pending had operated to cause its gentleman directed Mr. Brown to withdraw the Nor wich ly , =brought forward. One or other of two courses ought Petition, but that he was the legal advisee of the f s e u r eig , . ..thr d of Lorik on Mendavl is resell t hin—A:. the ,re y t te be pursued—either the euestion should be postponed Club, and that he had recommended the withdra• eat of : am ; iemale inmates of these institutions to be placed in a until alter that election in wee disposed of, or this ease Norwich petition. worse situation as regards supervision than our eri- Assad be allowed to fall into the general inquiry into the Colonel FORBSTEB"-No committee fr.d at the f'.a rhea mina's or our lunatics ? Is there to be no Habeas Club. I was the sole and respensibfr goodies of the withdrawal of election petitions, a notice of ~ . s • person. I" Hear, Corpus for the benefit of Sister ANN, lingering in a motion for inquiry into which now stood on the books, in • hear, and cheers.) well-walled and well-watched Convent, at the coin the name of the honourable member for East Mr. BENTINCX expressed $. • • t that the . • Surrey, for the last day of this month. There had taken a parts too. Hs t ► „10 ht there ~ a faro i els mare . discussion mend of a Roman Catholic abbess? Is Sister EMMA, was nothing in this petition to take it out of the whole against certain parties. fie . a b ri g h 4 i ti ; e as • les n: f er l licking the dust at the foot of the cross in obedience to inquiry, and he hoped the house would adopt that course. house, and an eabialeso the dictates of "ye Mother Superiour," Miss SELt.ON, _,eat of the tights of th e e' elector o e f The house ought to go into the whole question of the abuse Durham. He mesh ' edhere the . • he had • ' es to be worse off in the event of her desiring to abandon to opinionoriginally of the right to petition against the return of members which formed. TM hies . member for Greenwich said the motion the scene of her confinement, than the constrained had during the present sewer been shown to have led to was made is Go) .er to get a compromise of the petition occupant of a cell in a lunatic asylum ? Mind : there pus and discreditable jobbing. (Hear.) against Lord .. .s. Vane, but the date of the notice of motion is no intention to dispute the right of the inmates Mr. WALPOLE said that the last observation of the and tine st im-'.ioe on which it was founded was an answer to riot hon. gentleman was well worthy of eonsideration, for the' The t. 'eon. member for Newcastle said the petition was of these establishments to take up their abode there, *Ore could be but one opinion on both sides of the house withdre ewn on the 26th of December, by mutual consent. in the pursuit of somo desired relief, or following with regard to the abuse which existed of the right to pd.. The - -- a . was true ; but why was it ? Because it was ne- the dictates of some conscientious determination. We the, and its having been made the means of discredit-Ade beam that the real and the sham petitions should do not wish to interfere with Roman Catholic nuns compromises. Ile regretted that the member frsr East oe with Brawn before the writ for Durham, con- or An^lo-Catholic " sisters, " if they are determined 4 Surrey had not persevered in ;his motion for inqn'iring intr, sequent on the death of Mr. Grainger, Id • could issue. to reei ter their vows at the feet of an abbess all the petitions and counter - petitions whiea had been p e e . The fact was that this sham petition had ben withdrawn - e n seated. (Cries of "It stands.") He wes aware of that, but simply fur the purpose of enablieg the writ to be and issued, or a " Mother Superiour." All that we contend it stood on the paper night after night. [ Sir C. Wow!. here that the bona tide petition had - only be e n withdrawn be- for . this, that the abbess at the Mother is said it was thought b ea r to wait till all Ito petitions were cause its withdrawal was made the condition of the with- Superior shall not be entrusted with the unchecked withdrawn. 4 He was not sure that se .sat was adyisaed e' for drawal of ; the sham one ; and these were circumstances exercise of a greater power than we allow to our the presentation of petitions mOe' ,ot go on Until thus end of which he would undertak eto prove if the committee were of gaols or of lunatic asylums. A nun the session. granted him. With regard to what the hon. member for g o vernors , Si W Sir C. WOOD said that 'Mutt be b e .' -.. stated was that it Finsbury had said of the agents, he quite agreed that agents when she enters a convent in England is not the less Would be unfair to bring f -s rWa' - :._. this particular question were not the only responsible persons. They did an Englishwoman thar, she was before, and is no less on the eve of the ROM • • inh :nent of the election committee to their duty, whether or not that duty was contrary entitled to the prot.ection of the laws. An abbess, which the petition •- a .gainst the return of the sitting member to the orders of that house ; and he was not meek- whatever may be the amount of spiritual authority ;or Durham w • ing war against them ; but he was ' nailin g war she exerciees ov er ... to be referred. With regard to the motion her nuns, cannot divest herself of of the Me . .ther for East Surrey, he had another motion on against fraudulent petitions, and against the whole the __pm the paper that evening for returns which would form the groundwork of his motion for a committee of inquiry ; but kt gate= which permitted such things. (Hear, hear.) li rue • but he had pledged hi po • was sorry to divide the house , Lim " was it would be useless to bring forward the motion for the tip. self to various friends to test whether or not •?...., .ouse .A. sib' ity which the laws of E l ti, fen ' Upon her. 'std y ..-• • ED an ...stell .enoishop WIIATELY, who is not given to loose poiatment of that committee, until after the withdrawal of in earnest in these affairs, or wheth'...r it was determined to statements, cited two examples the other evening, all the petitions. ' deal with such • • matter as a mere party matter, witlso:it • which tended to show that the supe ' tendents of Mr. WALPOLE had quite understood his right noble reference to principles. Mese hear.) friend. He did not object to the with al draw of the present Lord PALMERSTON had hoped the hon. gentleman monasteries and nunneries in Great ' aIP \ ..41 , motion until a ft er the election committee had tried the would have agreed to the postponement of a decision on fact , act as if there were no laws to pab t Viols t r , petition against the return for Barham ; sµt he meant this point. lie did not deny that this might be a fit sub- of the subject. The Bishop of 1i . 21140,ar ; • ..., /.,.....‘....---, • • _ . Oa the motion of Mr. L. Kist, a comprehensive return was ordered of all the election petitions, with the protect:- logs arising out of them, during the present parliament. MONIES PAID BY ECCLESIASTICAL COMMIS- SIONERS. On the motion of Lord H. VANE, en address was agreed to for a return of all monies paid by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners during the last year to surveyors and law officers out of the funds administered by them ; and of all other monies received by the surveyors and lsw-orticers employed by them from the cathedral and collegia•e churches, or their lessees, for duty performed by order of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, or Church Estate Com- missioners; specifying the names and particulars of each transaction. DOCKYARDS. On the motion of Mr. CORRY an address was agreed to for a return of the number of person• employed in her Ma jesty's dockyards and gun wharfs, and other civil establi,h -' ments of the Admiralty and Ordnance, who are entitled to tote at the elections of members to serve in parliament for each of the following boroughs:—Greenwich, Chatham, Rochester, Harwich, Sandnich, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Devonport, and Pembroke. I v; COUNTY GAOLS._ On the motion of Ltric 11;r7tim,leave was given to bring in a bill to enable the justices of counties to contract in certain wee fur the Insintenance and confinement of convicted prisoners in the gaols of adjoining counties. THE FEVER. AT CROYDON. Mr. BROTliiftils:4 mated that the reports of Dr. Arnott, Mr. Page, Dr. Grainger,and Mr. Austin, in relation to the epidemic _freer which has recentlyll prevailed in the town of Croydon, be laid on the table of this house.— Agreed to. RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION IN GAOLS. On the motion of Mr. LUCAS, an address was agreed to for a return, showing in each prison in the United King dom, on the 25th day of September, 18.52. the number of prisoners of each religious denomination ; the names of the clergymen or other religious instructors appointed or offici ating in each prison during the previous year to promote the reformation of the prisoners of each denomination through the instrumentality of their own respective creeds; the religious denomination to which each suck clergyman or religious instructor belongs; the salary or allowance made to him during the year, distinguishing the sums ap plied for this purpose out of the money voted by parliament from those derived from county rate, county cess, or other local sources; the title, office, or service, in virtue of which such salary or allowance has been made ; and the date of the appointment of eachsuch clergyman or religious instruc ' tor, or of the commencement of his allowance, it an annual one. The house adjourned at one o'clock. The lion. C. T. D. Hanbury and Mr. Whitmore wero accidentally shut out from the division last night, and pre vented from voting in favour of Mr. T. Chambers's motion for the inspection of nunneries. Mr. Rat voted, by mistake, against Mr. T. Chambers's motion. Plan.—Mr. Esmonde paired againit Mr. T. Chambers's motion (Nunneries), with Mr. Tudway. tigur •'Prove . TO CORRESPONOENTS. A decond Edina) of " The Express," containing the tome eVellire. w Casette," ip published every Tuesday and Friday eight, in time for poet. nivel useniest. intended foe "The Ernest.," Loodon Evening paper. eanct be et the (Mee, 10, liouverthodreet, by Two o'clock on the day of publication. DIOR WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE. T 110 DAT—ltornisg. 3b. $O Afternoon. 411. 510. T .aeaaew—liormag, afternoon. 40.38 r. LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MAY 11.