The Express. — London, England, 1848-04-11 00:00:00

ag .....------------------- country into equal electoral districts, meigning to meta diarist one re. but he would warn them, Tr th l rjr bownuar than akee, eremetatiee. That your petitioner* hold the legislature. ealuelle against the e ff ort. The result cunt not ot erw whh the caecati , e , to be the ftreente of the People. tad eon" - disastrous to them. If they failed, England would home (meetly entitled to remuneration at the putille expense; and, . andthat the Home of Commons s hould be the minister forth stand alone, with an independent republic on one aide, and not the muter of the people, call upon you to establish their lust and an independent republic on the other. (OD, oh.) relative positions by bung equitable salary for the 00tvier 0 ill llf they succeeded, they might decimate the population, and members. That your petitioners consider septennial parliaments un- destroy industry in Ireland ; but they would only aggravate .ust, as they prevent, for Ms yeses out of FOVell. those who are an. her diaoutent, and render England utterly disgraced in the ▪ i " mi'lr " m" ' " 1 tree ' eill ' ig 'ec tight er t e rm i eyes of the wield. Ile entreated the house, while there was Tour petitioners also coast er that seven scare iv too long a term for. the existence of a parliament; a period that affords an opportunity to yet time, to conciliate Ireland, by conceding to her'•th ; ewe iiiil and timeaerving men to promote their winds interest. at the rights which she was resolved, somehow Or other, to have expense of those who., welfare should be the ultimate aim of all their W hen the right hon. gentleman opposite called him traitor labours. Tour petitionene therefore, entreat your hon. house to to the crown, he would net merely repel, but retort the scenic hehitleee i lhe reeresentanse and the e rep that t he W charge—(" oh. oh ")—and wouldtell him and his colleagues, ✓ io• ,-,-EYthendlUircientbthow m e . practice o T t ' sa gal t iss r l'i s ,t that if. in the present position of Europe, they sought, as all the efforts of meets. That your petitioner. complain that a neat in the Cone ; regarded their own countrymen, to crush mono House of Parliament should be continacht upon the peasessian the democracy hers to obtain those rights which the demo of property ; of any description, us they re yet to karn thit legiala- • cracy of every other country was attaining; and it, in respect tire Lakin La the exclusive prerogati" of tiny ceder or men; ends I to Ireland, they refused bi r the just right of self -govern therefore, pray for the abolition of whet is termed the "ProeeetV ' mein, they would be traitors to the crown, as Onizot and qustilicit" That your petitioners respectfully direct your attest- I Metternich had been, and would undergo the same fate. dont° the document enatleal -The People's Charter." which embodies: the principles an ds datal. for securing the full and equitable repro- I Sir G. GREY said that when, after the long absence of *notice of the male aduttpoputation, which document they earnestly the hon. gentleman, he bud teen him rise to address the Pray your honourable house to forthwith enact an. the Liar of the i house, he bad enter; mined some hopesthat the hon. gentleman it rt r e alm. should the meers at your hon. housecnteain any dout , .l ; had risen to disavowwn (great chee with the ind ri i ng) the ignatio n aturalaral to a loe.al ' as to the justice of nerdemands, your petitioners hum bl y entreat to I so bjeet o f the cron mos which I be beard at the bee of your hon. ionise by counsel or agents in sup. none( filial: dliftls. And your petitioners, *C. I bad been cast upon his loyalty, not in that house, but in Lord MORPETH send t orn his right hon. friend the I well-nigh every newspaper ciiculating throughout the realm past, and that, with the fervid eloquence Secretary of State for the Horne Department would have 1 fair some weeks been in his place, but that he was much occupied in attend- 1 which characterised his harangues elsewhere, if not m that log to the business of his department that morning. What- , house (hear, hear), he would have repelled those imputations and disavowed the statements and professions imputed to ever might be the sentiments entertained with respect to the ! • him by virtue • if from no better feeling moved, of the oath prayer of the petition, his right hon. friend did not wish to show any want of respect us this petition, or any petition . of allegiance loud cheering) which he had so repeatedly signed by so large a number et the people. (Hear.) ; taken to the sovereign of these realms. (Cheers). What, SCOTCH ENTAIL BILL. then, had been his—he would not say astonishment, so Mr. B. COCHRANE wished to kuow from the Lord i much as his pain and regret, and he was confident the pain Advocate when this bill would be proceeded with ? l and regret of every gentleman in the house (hear, The Lord ADVOCATE hoped that the bill would. be re- I hear) to hear the honourable member, while, with ported to-morrow. a show of lip service, he still affected a tone of Mr. COCHItANE wished to know when the second loyalty to the sovereign, avoiding, in that respect, reading would be brought on ? the boldneu and daring which marked what fell from him The Lord ADVOCATE.—The second reading is passed. on the subject elsewhere—(hear, hear)—to hear him, not ILoud lauehter.) I merely repeat what he had said elsewhere, but glory in it, CROWN AND GOVERNMENT SECURITY BILL. I and strongly retort the charge of treason upon the govern- On the motion that this bid be read a second time, I mot' (Hear, hear.) The of t complained Rutin Mr. S. O'BRIEN rose and Raid he did not intend to er.ter i his absence he had been called traitor in ti.e house. The at length into the details of this bill—he cared little about 1 hon. m , mber was perhaps referring to what hail fallen from them. He saw in this bill a new attempt to meet the claims of himself (Sir G. Grey) on Friday last. Of the cause of the Ireland rather by t hatci han by coned iat ion. ("Oh, oh "1 It hon. gentleman's absence on that occasion, the hon. gentle was upon that ground hat he opposed it. He could assure the I man himself would be the best exponent. (Hear, hear.) But house, with all solemnity, that he believed the attempt now ; absent or present, he (Sir G. Grey) had not called the hen. making to cot rce the people of Ireland would be ietfectuel, I gentleman traitor ; he had read to the house a passage from and that they would fail in their attempt to indict a whole ! a speech of Mr. Duffy at a confederation meeting, reciting a nation of hiah treason. (Oh, oh.) Be that as it might, he had ' letter, purporting to come from the hon. gentleman at Paris, a duty to perform, and he would not shrink from it. (Oh, lin which the hon. gentleman gave an account of the dieoou• oh.) In the year le )3, before he joined the Repeal Assacia- raging reply he had received from H. Lamartine—(bud tion, he made a last appeal to the house, asking for whst was cheers)—who, with a public virtue that did him high called justice to Ireland, and proposed a series of useful mca- ; honour —( cheers ) — sensed to encourage the designs lures, which were calculated to give satisfaction to that lof the stirrers up of sedition in Irelan I, or to country, and consistent with the maintenance of the coo- do aught that should infringe upon the laws of ru Zion between the two countries. The house refused that nations, and give good cause of war to England as against appeal. It had now an opportunity of meeting the demands France. (Hear, hear.) Did the hon. gentleman deny the of that nation by yielding to their claims fur a separate leeil- letter imbed to him, in which he was reported to say that, iature, and aeknowledgieg the prineiele of stir gorernment though Lamartine refused succour to the Irish agitators, , Queer, h ancient constitutionof ea r: land—namely , under die I a member of a Paris club hail assured him of the aid of Queen, Lords, and Commons of le, land. If they refused that I aO,OOO armed Frenchmen ? (Hear, bear.) He had hoped claim they woull during the present y ear have to encounter the thee at all events, the hon. member would have disavowed chance of the e,tablithtnent of a republic in that country. the attempts imputed to him elsewhere to seduce from their i Vehement ironical cheering and cries of " Oh, oh.") u ss . 'worn elle. iance the troops of this country and the police of like all the other governments of Europe, the hberal govern- Ireland —(cheers); but, instead of any such disavowal, the ment of England, instead of attemptieg to pacify a country hon. member had declared those forces to be disaffected to which was connected with them, by timely concessions, me t the crown, and disposed, as a body, to aid in etLcting the their demands by prosecutions and coercion laws—at a national independence of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) lie had moment, too, when the Foreign Minister was giving his not, he would repeat, designated the honourable gen countenance to the efforts of every other peopl! to relieve tleman traitor; he fad read the passages to which themselves from servitude. He asked for a t better perallel he had referred, from Mr. Duffy's speech, and he must to the case of Ireland then Sicily in its relation to N ap l es , presume that having trail the sentiments and views there ;Hear, hear.) What was the noble lord doing there but imputed to the hon. member, the hon. member had thence proving that the Sicilians were perfectly right in w est t e e , inferred that he must have been called traitor—(loud cheers) were doing ? (Hear hear.) In his ri*Uence charges had —an inference equally draws by the house, it would been made againet ' him and the r arty with whom he Was seem, from the simultaneous cheers which met the hon. acting. (Loud cheers.) If any indiridual had charges gentleman when he said he had been named traitor in that to make against him, let them be made in hie assembly. Meer, hear.) He (Sir G. Grey) denied the o n es the lie was now there to answer those charges right of tho hon. gentlemen to constitute himself the on the part of himself ; lied he would say this, With exponent of the loyalty of the people of Ireland. (Hear, regard to his compenions ia the noble squegle its which they hear.) The hon. gentleman had sought to make out that were engaged—(oh, 011)—that though he had been nine ern- the population of northern Ireland were ready to take up harked in public life for 20 years. and had an opportunity of arms against England, bemuse the government had brought seeing distinguished men of all parties, he never met a num- in a bill about tenant-right. On what authority did the hon. ber ot men, acting tor great political objects, who were ani- gentleman thus represent himself as the interpieter mated by such pure and disinterested motives—(loud of the sentiments of that population ? (Hear, hear.) laughter, and cries of Wit h oh'')—as those with whom He (Sir 0. Grey) was prepared to state, upon the it was his pride to act. With regard to himself he had been best information, that a very large proportion of the , called • traitor. (Vehement cheering.) He did not profess People of Ireland, of whatever religious creed or political : disloyalty to the Queen of England, but if it were treason opinion, were unalterably and deeply attached to the crown , to profess disloyalty to the government of Ireland by the and constitution of this empire nwould, were the ques- parliament of Great Britain he avowed it—nay more it tion put to them, utterly and S o il ny repudisteehe , would be the study of hie life to seek the overthrow wof ;he claim of the hen. member to expound their feelings. , government of that parliament in Ireland. (Loud ironical (Cheers.) The hon. member said that the chartists of this , cheering.) He would take upon himself to say that country, to a man, were in favour of his views. Ile believed I no man stood higher in political character than he did firmly that the hon. gentleman was an mistaken in this , ;Repeated ironical cheering.) He wee certain that, both in notion as in the rest A prominent leader of the chartists, t that house and in Ireland, there were many men superior to who sat near the hon. member, had only last triday i him in point of talent, but he defied any man to say, since he expressed a wholly different opinion, and expressed himself ; sat in that house as representative for the county of Limerick, the firm friend of the established monarchy of this country. , that he ever gave a vote which was not prompted b yiek , ae (Hear, hear.) The hon. member might go about , honest and eincere desire to promote the welfare of the ill over Europe in search of aid for his projects; , country. (Rear, hear.) He alt lied any m e to say that he but he believed the hon. gentleman would every- , ever voted for personal consideration. Ifs would tell the where be as miserably frustrated as he had been in Femme. , house more—now that he was arraigned as a tr as h (oh, (Cheers) Ali to Ireland, he hail every confidence that aspirit , he would rather accept the most ignominious death (oh, oh) prevailed there which rejeMed wi th indignation the dicta- than be obliged to be a witness of the indignities and suffer. tion of the hon. gentleman (hear, hear), and the exposition , tags which had been inflicted on his country during the stet which he Sought. to give of the feelings of the country. I 30 years. (Oh, ch.) It bad b. en stated that he went to (Hear, hear.) The tone of defiance towards Ireland which , France to solicit Freni h aid (hear) —that was to say, armed , the hen. gentleman had imputed to the goveninientdid•not I aid—in the struggle in which they were engaged. That was a t exist. (Hexer hear.) It was the camera wish of the govern- I misapprehension. (Laughter and ironical cheers.) If he went i merit is see Ireland united with this country, not inanely in , to ask French aid he should have come back accompanied bye form feat in fact ; not merely in the bands of law, but by the i tolerably large legion of troops. (" Oh, oh," and Cries of ties of affective, (Hear, hear.) They were moot earnest 1 Ne.") Let them believe what he said. He wished the that she should enjoy her full participation in our happinero, I had been in France. (Laughter.) But the language which our wealth, and prosperity, and that she @holed, in , he had held in Freer* and Ireland to his countrymen was the person of every one of her eons, exercise those this—that Irish freedom must be won by Irish courage and constitutional rights and privileges which were. the Irish firmness. (Oh, oh.) He had no desire to impose birthright of all her Majesty's subjects. (Cheers.) TO se on his country one description of seevitude for another. cure these inestimable bleseingathe close maim of the peOple (Hear, hear.) He believed that if the liberty of be uid and of the twocountries was indispensable—a union which would her redemptim from her preeent position was to be wee by pespetuste not only the crown and government of these foreign bayonets, it could be maintained in that position only realms, but the permanent happiness and welfare of the en by foreign baeonets. It was not his desire or intentina that I ties PeoPle. (Cheers. I his country bhould be under any foreign dominion what- Mr. F. O'CONNOR moved that the bill be reed a ever. What he did say, however, he would boldlT second time that day six months. Ile asked whether it be semi in that house. He went to France on *beha f came the descendant of Lord William Russell to sanetion ' such a measure as this, or to ferret out statutes of Charles 11. of his fellow-countrymen to congratulate the Provisional wherewith to obstract the free discussion of public men and Government of France upon the overthrow of a tyranny which had forfeited all claims to the continureve of the pa public measures ' Such proceedings as those with w)tich the session of power in that country. He was ready to admit government were now chargeable looked peculiarly ill in men who heretofore, to snit their own views, ' had that he had found the greatest sympathy in France with I the condition of Ireland—a sympathy fully shared by the I %eked the most inflammatory language in public, and excited who I the assemblage of the most imposing crowds of people enlightened men of all countries , England included, in the streets, to such an extent, indeed, that were the pro. regarded the conduct of the imperial legisheure towards lee- l g entlemen measure retrospective in its operation.. hail of the hon. land as orly paralleled by that of Russia towards Poland. K on the government bench would be sent to the He was confident that (very one of the five-and-a-half mil hulk, under its provisions. (Hear, hew.) ; He regretted lions of persons who had signet the petition that night that there existed in the house no constitutional opposition, presented, were earnest in rho it sympathy with Ire Land. to raise its voice against this monstrous invasion of the right lie admitted that he hail been instrumental in calling upon of speech, so long deemed the birthright of iloglishineei his countrymen to arm. (Hear, hear) In the present aspect of public affairs throughout the civilised world, he thought Mr. G. THOMPSON seconded the amendment, lie ex it essential that every nation should b, in a position to assert, primed his heartfelt and devout thanks that the proceedings by force, the maintenance of its national rights. In 1702 it of that day, out of doors, bud been eharactei ism% by such was deeme: no crime in the i ithers of the present race of order nod quiet. Mess, he Ir.) It atm: he a great reliet to Irishmen to assemble in armed array against the foreign foe the mind of every gentleman preeent that, in ef sitting —(hear, hen) —and in vindication of their national liberty. i tittle under that pprehen uf conflict raging without, He himself called upon his countrymen to arra, as much for I, they found all wag tranquil, and that they the purpose of preserv • ing order. -i s olt, oh)—as for the par - 1 might indulge the hope that the people had at- miss of acquiring political liberty. The Irish Confederation tained the conviction that the best, the only means, of had, at their last ent.ng, ta t ion resolution, den ,, uncing as a obtaining their legitimate objects, would be by peaoeful -.roes c ilumny the imputation thrown upon them by Lord i ceurees. avoiding all violent collision with the constitated J ohn il use 11, that tee obj: ct of their association was dis- authoritiee, and all alerm hi property.hear). Lung order, amid a violeut separation faim Great Britain. Their, might heaven avert Wm the land the conflict of the many - ' - ' '''' - -, the h et ' 'Ave independence of I with the few !He objected to the haste with w hich this Mll . _ . . . . . , . e bill -- at asmeasure „ .. . . object throughout bad been the Ireland, and their fervent hope wa., that this object would be obtained without the necessity of a recourse to civil war. lie admitted hie advice to the Irish nation, that they should depute to Dublin a national council of MO, as pro posed by their late illustrious leader, Mr. O'Connell. He trusted that this council would be formed, and when formed, he would recommend the noble lord Napo. rite to enter into early negotiations with it, for the purpose of of an amicable settlement of the differences between the two countries. The Irish re prmentatives in that house wore nn representatives of the Irish people, and therefore nn fit exponents of Irish wadi-s, of Iri-h feeling or of Irish views. He had been quite prepared, when he ea-s e down to the house, to meet the in sulting sneers which to had encountered from both sides of the h oust those sneers were degrading, not to him, but to th o s e who p e e them expression. and who would one o th-re days, sooner or liter, find the principle he advocated no sneering matter. The wily real danger that he appre bend . d for his cause es the possibility of unwi‘e pre. ipitation on the part of a portiuu of the Irish populatim, arising from their suffering the nwlves to be led into overt acts of yip Ion: by the nwe'.-.ir Itions of the government and their 1.1.1.3. As to himself he bad no fear but of a packed jury. Let but one honest man be on the jury that should try and he with his all agues would. be acquitted. Let him most seriously warn the government against the course they were pursuir g in this matter. If they failed in their prose cution the prestige of their sway in Ireland was wholly and for ever gone' if they succeeded, what then i•—such was the spirit of men in Ireland that for every patriot imprisoned by the hand of power tift y —a hundred—would s tart up in his I.larc. As to the gentry of Ireland, let not the government rely upon them in the event of col lisian : they would find quite enough to do in saving them selves by the aid of English bayonet., or, much more pro bably, they would gla.Vy come to terms with the victorious nation. As to the orangemen, they were a 1 discontented with the government for robbing them of their long-enjoyed tenant-right, and be had full confidence that they would not lend their aid in maintenance of the imperial rule. The police in Ireland were, no doubt, a large and very fine body, 10,00 strong, but do not let government count on their aid. They were liishmen, and, were a great national struggle as between nation ant nation to commence, they would,like the nrangemen, be ham - to wear the honour and renown that would belong to them as saviours of their country. The army was sn insignificant traction of the population. In the time ot the great rebellion, 150,000 troops were fully occupied in maintain:ng possession of but two or three coun ties: did the government suppose that 30,050 soldiers, even suppeing them every man faithful, would oppose any serious ma of a whole nation, tho more mpeciallv obstacle to the e ll when, as every mitit , ...ry man knew, the physical peculiari ties ot the country presented almost insuperable impedi ments to the operations of cavalry or artllery ? But he believed that government could not rel u;on the army in Ireland. (Oh, oh.) lie believed that in the event of a national struggle, a large propovion of the army of Irelsiid would refuse to set again s t the people. (Oh, oh.) lie treated with the utmost dtsdain the effnis of the go moment. to put him down pr.:4ctution. (Oh. ob.) the purpose of gaining a temporary cheer, to say that govern meat entertained the most sincere wishes for the peace, pro sperity,and riches of Ireland. But these were mere words What had ministers done to carry those wishes into effect? They had been two years in office, and what had they done to promote the peace, prosperity, and riches of Ireland ? He had sup ported the present ministry, but he would not be a party to the indolence of the treasury bench. (Oh, and cheers.) He would tell them that they were now advancing en to a volcano which, if they did not take care, would soon explode under them ; sad he called upon them, if they had not the power or the ability to legislate for the good of the country, to give plate to those who had. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Dr. 11OWRING said it could not be denied that this bill treated a new political felony. It was true the penalty of death attached to words incitiug to the levying of war against the crown or to the invasion of the country ; but that law was a dead letter. This bill would revive the offence and punish it. lie wante d security, not in the accidents of a good judge and an intelligent jury, but in the positiveness of the law. (Hear.) In regard to overt acts of treason, and in what was written and published, there was some security against the intention of the party being misunder stood, but what security was there in the accidental record of words spoken? (Hear, hear.) In the case of Winter-' I bottom they had an instance of a man being punished for words be hud never uttered. Then, what was the meaning of the phrase, " Over-awing parliament ?" Parliament vise I always being over-awed by public opinion, and it was to that circumstance they owed many of the liberties the people enjoyed. The right hen. baronet (Sir R. Peel) had given way to that species of over-awing—and the noble lord (J. Russell) had done so often. Nothing could b s more perilous than hasty legislation upon a subject like this. (Hear, hear.) All despotic laws had resulted from panic. If any duty was paramount at this time it was that they should not widen the gulf that existed between the different classes of the people. If there was ever a moment when the house was bound to inquire whether the national representation ought not to be enlarge and whe ther something ought not to be done to redress the grievances of the many, and to place our institutions on that broad I I iundati n on which alone they could rest in security, it was now. Mr. P. WOOD objected to the words " by open and ad vised speaking," but would vote for the second reading of the bill, reservisg to himself the right of opposing those words in committee. He considered that there was a marked distinc tion between the offence of open and advised speaking and the overt act of printing and publishing the same words, and the law had invariably made that distinction. Mr. Justice Black- I stone in referring to the crime of treason said," it was clearly agreed that words spoken amounted only to a high mig demeanor ; for as they might be spoken in heat, or be mis taken, or perverted, or mis-remembered by the hearer; and as their meaning might depend upon other words, or things, or even upon the tone in which they were uttered; as in fact, nothing could be more ambiguous than words spoken, they ought not to be made high treason." (Hear, hear.) The bill of 1756 was in troduced at a period just as formidable as the present, and yet it did sot contain those words. (Hear, bear.) Indeed he believed it would be found that Mr. Pitt intended to have introduced them, and had drawn up a clause fur the purpose, but withdrew it. That bill, which was only tem ' pore y, was made permanent in 1817, durin g the period of the Manchester riots, and when a minister presided at the head of affairs who was well known not to have been favour able to popular demonstrations. (Hear, hear.) He regretted, therefore, that the government should have thought it necessary to set stile that distinction which the law had hitherto made between words spoken and words written and published, and now for the first time make the crime a felony. He would suggest that it should be made only a high misd-meanor, not bailable. Captain ARCH DALL, referring to what bad fallen from the hon. member for Limerick, detended the loyalty of the orangemen of Ireland. They could not, he observed, forget the heavy blow and great discouragement given them by the noble lord opposite, nor that they had been one day lauded and the next day persecuted by the right hon. baronet the member fur Tainworth. (Cheers.) But they had, notwith standing, remained firm in their loyalty and attachment to her Majesty and the throne. Between discontent and disaf fection there was a aisle difference. (Hear, hear.) And it th government would only act with justice to the protestants of e Ireland they might bid defiance to 10,000 Smith O'Brien. Mr. MUNTZ had voted for the introduction of the bill in ignorance of its real character. Now that he had seen it, he should vote against it. He concurred in the propriety of as similating the law in Ireland to that of England, and would grant every reasonable power necessary for the protection of public order, because he was convinced that without good order there could be no real liberty. (Cheers.) But he could not consent that he or any other man ehoeld be sub ject to the charge of felony for words alleged to have been spoken on the evidence of one witness, who might be base enough to swear falsely. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DRUMMOND looked upon the simultaneous out break through Europe as deeper than a mere political malady. lie attributed it to diseoetent on the part of the masses with their social c.indition—discontent, he might say, with the providence of Gud—(cries of "oh ") ; fur as well might it be supposed that we could regulate the height of men as that we could alter the constitution of society , and award to each a certain measure of wealth. The disturb antes in Ireland and this country were but phases of the malady which pervaded all Europe. The hon. gentleman, h a ving quoted several passages from speeches by membersf o the convention in this country and the confederation in Ire land, declared that nothing so overt had been committed in the year '9B, and that the question was not against this or that institution—it was not a question of • republic or a monarchy—but whether the whole institution of society should not be upset and perverted. The labouring claases of this country were deeply mistaken if they supposed that they would benefit their condition by reducing the profits of the master manufacturers. On the contrary, their best chance of prosperity was by increasing the capital of the manufacturer. It was owing to the sentiments contained in the extracts he had read to the house that he grounded the opinion at which he had arrived—namely, that there was a determination on both sides of the Channel to alter the social condition of the country. But the man who told the people hat by a new constitution of society they would be benefited laugh.)de them, and must be an abominable quack. (A The man who told them, as they were lately told, that if he hail the charter he would double and treble their wages, only trilled with their distresses ; and in pre tending to bring them a light from heaven only brought them a glare from the bottoming pit. lie was prepared to go further than those hon. gentlemen with whom he usually acted in that house, in thinking that they had done nothing they ought to have done to diminish the public expenditure and lighten the burden of taxation on the people. (Cheers from the radical benches.) He thought they ought long ago to have extended the elective franchise. (Cries of "b e from the same quarter.) lye thought they aught also to have shortened the duration of parlia ment—(hear, hear), and done many other things in reference to subjects not now before them. He had only abstained from alluding to these subjects before because he did not wish to thrust himself into other men's labours, and because he thought that the task would have been under taken by those who were much more competent for it; but rather than suffer this charter to be passed off with a mere motion, which might amount to nothing, he would himself bring in bills upon the questions it involved. (Cheers.) Mr. Canning bad said that the next war which would de solate Europe world be a war of principles and opinions, and he confessed that that was the war of which he was afraid, and of which he saw the gathering symptoms around him. Mr. BRIGHT said that out of every seven grown men only one was represented in that house, and that, looking to the unfairness of the distribution of the electoral power, it might be said not more than one-fourteenth of the grown male pepulation were directly represented in parliament, and his belie was that the best security to property, capital, and labour, would be found in diminishing the taxa tion and increasing the political rights of the people. This bill proved one of two thing that the ," de were gettiog Soli citor-General or ( al k hodlaugot,uwatnihod.depriithirtatittll:ddott•im.. )7frkidee.iilu4Hripe:,:heedeTbeewbtSut°m4...betigii. strainttheir :.erttciro h em e .experienceco lawst heretoi o c tn o h n considerably , a this. es sedition; iyem,, after Parties an a ef; e d .... n. tct Easter, were t e :ewi l tae r :fr i s :o.oi l uttl i .,o:lt oloddu o ei like havepi i tir e ,o l :,h e ubh et: tib e:l2. asked d epi natout lh a i ail l o _ moa stained f ofi,l enough r: sdit r ilfw, Divide.") from e, when 0.: pii t p h i i e t woi n. ug unwiselaw ( fi r i t ] Mr. S. CRAWFORD, who arose amidst loud cries of " Divide," complained of the injustice of the house i refusing - quaintance with its provisions ; but toe mare he bad se. metered it the more war he convinced that it war unfit to be . entertained byj the house. No man who stoke at a pub. lic meeting—none even who heard him—would be lan t against transportation for life with a bill so vaguely worded as thin. What was meant by such expressions as " ing, passings," " inventions," " imaginings," " devices," &e.? (Hear, hear.) He denied that even in Ireland was therei; necessity for this bill. The persons who had there infringed ti e law were about to be brought to trial. Let aot the hone, then, be betrayed into the error of legislating, with the view to ol meet tights h f e e t m e h g t e rr il ew i sv a h a a .A b eoni should slaedri7CE.hoefayrpi thel' s.: introduced people. T e Act d hopedai n c d b e t i dh at i o l hs f e a t T cut o hht (Hear,m i l a I d h h b e y a ' r) l Jury. eff T act InPeal protection to the crown and governmen i:o t rt w i:dl o beij u :til l i d id be i:y: to obtf :dre pmhinizon spy system had evidently been revived in Ireland; and he believed it had been muted to in thus country also. Be re . gretted that those who had hitherto supported mun e sure. of the government would modify the objectionable parts of this bill. This was only due to the calmness with which a subject of such an exciting nature hid been dis cussed • but no such modification had been consented to. The S slicitorGeneral had given his view as to the'construe tion of one claw.; other hon. and learned g ntfernen had done the same • and there was as to what wo uld be the operation of the clause. This ass estate of things neither creditable to the house oar site for the country. It was said thut judges and juries would con. prebend the measure; but If it war not under-to dby those who had manufactured it and introduce) the words, how could it be so by others? If this loose legisla‘leu wets allowed, there would be no security for the people who took part in political matter.; and they would have great reason to complain of the negligence of the legate. tare. The hon and learned member for Oxford (sr. Wood) had put a construction on the clause which was as opposite as the poles to that of the Solicitor General. Knowing what might be the operation of tne clause, they ought not to allow it to proceed a stage further; and his impression war, that he ought to move the adjournment of the debate. Whence the necessity for tide breathless haste fur the sudden introduction of a bill like this ) There had been what he might call open insurrection in Dublin for VII last two months, almost with the connivance of the gowns. meat. Men stated there that they had resieted the law ia • minor degree, and were prepared to resist it in the fullest manner. Pikes bad been manufactured and publicly sold by auction. Only. in November last a bill had been passed empowering the Lord Lieutenant to proclaim disturbed die. tries., and issue a special commission fur tae trial of offenders. That law, if carried into effect, would have been amply sufficient to repress crime ; but there had been a remarkable supineness in exercising its powers. Of what use was that law if i: could not be applied to Dublin natter these circum stances? At all events, the people of England, because ' offences were committed elsewhere, ought not to be saddled I with a measure which was not less a gagging act than any of the Six Acts of 1819. (Hear.) Least of all saould sett a measure be passed by a government calling its I liberal. • (Hear, hear.) If the words were expunged to which ob jection had been made be would cease further oppositioe; if the clause so ambiguously and peculiarly framed were na tinned, it should have his most determined and uutlinchiag opposition at every stage. No case had been made out for this measure. The present law had tot been proved inadequate for the preservation of the peace. What had government not anticipated? Their fears had most completely ov,rwhelonel them; they had expected a violent outbreak. Yet the mon ster petition had been presented, mid, so for as he could learn, not • single carte of common &unlit find occurred that day. (Divide.) Had not the law triumphed ? (Hear, hear.) Had nut the common-sense, the sense of justice of the people who presented the petition, also triumphed ? (No, us.) It was an atrocious calumny on the people of this country to intimate, by ac tent or tone of any kiud, th et it was their ob. ject to commit outrage and violence. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Bridport might exclaim " Oh, oh ;" bat it was a calumny on the people to receive them of being levees of outrage and violence, or of being prepared to commit theta They believed that they were deprived by the legislature of their just political rights; and he believed en too. (Hew.) He further believed that they never would relax in theirjart and reasonable demands until those rights were conceded—a concession which would add to the security of property and of life, and would place the throne on • bane which would render it absolutely immoveable. (Hear.) When he heard of the condition to whica the people of Ire. land were reduced, and when they gut nothing from that house but coercion bills, he thought they were right to be indignant at such treatment. When he opposed the Coer cion Bill in November last he could only get 22 members to vote with him. (Cheers.) They were now in April, and where were the measures which had been promised ? (Hear, hear.) There was a Landlord and Tenant Bill ; bat no one could comprehend it, and its only object seemed to be to give employment to the lawyers. He believed that the agitators in Ireland were actuated by the best motives. (Ironical cheers.) Would they have the people to lie down quietly and die of huuger ? Be did not think that English members would wish to allow that. He would suggest that the second reading should be taken without &division, on the condition that the government would commit the bill pro forum, and make what modifies. tion they could in the clause so much objected to. (Oh, oh.) It the government persisted in adhering to that clause he would give every opposition to the bill. Lord J. RUSSELL said that he could not, on the part of the government, consent to accept the proposition which the hon. member for Finsbury was good enough to make with a view to a future consideration of the bill. (Hear, hear.) So far from agreeing to that proposition he declared at once that he would consent to alter no part of the bill when the amuse went into committee. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman attributed a character of harshness and violence to the bill which was calculated to mislead those who attended to his speech. The noble lord then explained the nature of the bill, which he said was merely to make certain offences which were now punishab:e by death pe nishable by transportation, and extending the law, which was only in force in England and Scotland, to Ireland He was not then going to defend the particular clause which had been objecte d to, became it would be oppeeed in corn mitten and the Solicitor-General had clearly and ably stated the reasons why it was introduced. The hon. gentleman asked why they should select • time of excitement and fear foe intro ducing. each a bill. It was en account of that excitement and fear, and the mischief which they had produced, that they were justified in introducing this bill. (Mean) He admired to the hon. gentleman that excitement and fen prevailed. No person could have read the sie echos in the newspapers delivered in this town within the last week, and than Dblin within the last month, without having i ause for at fear and excitement. And while he rel eel generally on the support of this country to oppose sash machinations, there war one great and numerous claw of people who would be affected more than any others by such fear and excitement. lie would not appeal to the gentlemen of Enolimil, because their high spirit would induce them to come forward in favour of the institutions under wh'ch they lived, sad which had been the glory of thei r cou-Ory. (Hear, hear.) Wish respect to the middle deities they were loyally sh fectcd, and there was no fear that they would be misled by arguments addressed to their passions. (Hear, hear.) It was the working classes who were more especially expoeed to danger by this excitement. (Hear, hear.) peci Vie} , it was who would be the sufferer* by anything that would die range the peace and order of this country, and prerent the application of capital in those numerous' undertakings If that were the case, was it net tit that they f s e t:o rn ul w d l e i n c d h ea P v r o ° u fi r t4 as and much wag a e s . po we esi re l: e . r t i o7 l u . t. an (i 1 en st il , to hea tt r i] excitement, and endeavour to punish those who urged them to commit breaches of the peace, who urged them to levy war against the institutions of the country, and put in peril the welfare of those classes to which they aldreard their appeals. (Hear.) If he were right in that suppcnition the hon. member fur Finsbury, instead of opposing the posing of this bill, ought, as a frimd of the working clinger, to sup port it. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Man chester, also, who knew how susceptiole a thing capital was, and how its investment was mappedwho by I ally violation of the peace of the community ; I knew very well that amongst the newfangled theories of I the organisation of labour, nothing was so valuable to the labouring man as that there should he a great i umber of 1 employer, and that they should have large capites in which I to timed their enterprise, and to call for the employment of labourers, ought to support this measure. I Ilene, bear.) If that hon. gentleman distrusted the objects that were put be flare the working men, in which they ware told that by semi II fillutur;letrglya,alltid" sohfoulldabo"havthe almost riches. If he distrusted those theories he would join with him in putting an end to thisse disturbing forces which were now agitating society. (Hear, hear.) With regard to Ireland, on which subject the hon. member ey eve s r h;uld .. he rort secu an red d for Finsbury had reproached teem, although they might have introduced a bill on the subject of the relations between landlord and tenant, which they thought would be beneficial to the country, but which might not have given satisfaction , he begged to say that he did not think these matters ra wed the great or main business of the parl am ent or govemen! of this country. t lieu, hear.) There were exceptions—ha. ceptions which were sometimes juatiliable, sometimes benel) vial, sometimes even necessary. But those w ho could bet regulate the relations between landlords and tenants o f Ire land were the landlords and tenants of Ireland—( l4o) 7 and those woo could best regulate the relations between the employers and employed were the employe!, and employed' tt.. (Hear.) . So with regard to the other relations ot *one o. They might at times think fit to interfere—( hter)? ) he always contended that those cases were to be defended si e mai laa n pti bu ons in f e o sa r o a f p go arti ve a rn a m lar er. oC ::d io that the landlord and tenant, the employer and emplaS__ should be protected by the law as long as they spected the life and property of others, and chat....: the law and the arm of power would interfere agaills it t:!, who disturbed them in those useful, peaceful, and be was! relate) s. (Cheers.) Such was the business to o tech go7 o etu mint and parliament should direct its constiut uttecOo to : such as what society could cot do lo s. itself, whccii p h r o i c e tori ll dividuals could sot arrange am inast one anathi•r— - . t .17. the objects to which government should chiefly three ......). the ITogihallinriochwoowastot:Lhe efforts. It was tut that purpose Oat they r- hi 1 i of w IA II 1 , ' 1 4 1! . '.l ' 1 1" 1 I . :( I • i , • THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 11, 1848, said " You ought to go down in • body to the Houle of Commons with your petition," he did not think a jury would convict; but if he said "You will never obtain redress unless you organise • force and • con spirsey," and if he repeated such advice after due warn(ng, then in his (the Solicitor-General's) opinion, that would be open and advised speaking, and would insure a conviction from a jury. He maintained that the words objected to would never insure a conviction except in cases where the offence was so manifest as to leave no possible doubt oar the mind as to its character. He could not but think that great edvantage would result from changing such offences from treason into felony. There was a romance and a fancied dignity about treason which did not attach to felony. To wtek distinction w a weakness of human nature, and with every respect for the sincerity of the hon. member for Limerick, he did believe that personal notoriety was one of his principal motives or the course he was at present pursuing. (Loud cheers ! No more striking proof of this could be found than in the fact that when he and his asso ciates were held to hail in a sum of 2001. to answer a charge of sedition, they were quite offended, and exclaimed " We meant it to be treason." (A laugh.) It would not be a es serious effence as sedition, it would merely be one of a mo re vulgar description. (Hear.) One word with respect to the 13th Charles 11. The hon. member for Montrose had asked whither the prohibiting the presentation of a petition signed by 20 persons would be continued ; but he might as well ask whether the amount of prerogative then enjoyed Iby the sovereign was to be preserved ? He had only to re peat that the hill had only Reference to " open and advised speaking," with a tendency to induce persons to levy war, to compel the sovereign or the legiefature to change or aunden measures which they might think conducive to the welfare and happiness of the country. wan Mr. HUME asked whether "open and advised speaking" felony under the present law The SOLICITOR-GENERAL —It is treason. Mr. HOME—Under what set? The SOLICITOR GENERAL—Open and advised speak ing, accompanied by overt acts, is treason under the present law. Sir R. INGLIS supported the bill. He thought it was high time that the treasonable praceedings which lad been going on for some time should be put a stop M. (Hear, hear.) They would net have been so long permitted in any other country, or under the mist republican government in the world. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend the member fir Montrose had said that he would allow a man to say what he I liked provided he kept his hands oft He asked his hon. friend would he remain quiet while two men consulted how he might easiest lie knocked down ? His hon. friend had also said that this bill would change the character of political uritation that speeches wou l d he made i n holes and corners with onl y ' the government spies for audiences. Be it so : then they would not do SO much mischief as when uttered in public to myriads of misguided persons. He held in his hand a omober of arch speeches which loudly called for legislative interleaence; and here, although nit accustomed to allude to the publk: press., he must express his thanks to the conduc tors of the herald, 'I imes, end Standard, and, indeed, all the journals which he was in the habit of seeing, for their exer- f . tions in promoting the cause of peace and order. Many o those speeches were attrihuted to the hon. member for Limerick, who, in his (Sir R. Inglis's) view, defied public opinion in this country and in the noun. (Hear.) When that hon. member had risen, he (Sir It. Inglis) was prepared, for one, to ask whether the house would not require from the hon. meinher some explanation of his recent conduct in a neigh bouring country before he was permitted to address it. It was true that the hon. member had towards the close of his speech oflered some sort of vindication. Such as it was it had been listened to by the house wi'h a feeling which the hon. member would be able to appreciate. (Hear.) The Iron member had sail " I went to France to mingra.ulate the people on having regenerated the spirit of independence, which I trust will react on my own country." Noss, these words hail a meaning or they had nut. If they had a mean ing, was it not that recent events in France might lead to the establishment of republican institutions in Ireland? (Hear.) Mr. S. O'BRIEN had only to repeat that at present he only sought for Ireland a government by the Queen, Lords, and Commons of Inland, but, whatever his own feelings might be, he believed that if that were refused a republic would be the result. Sir It. INGLIS believed that he had not misinterpreted the hon. member's expressions. He had only to say in con clusion that lie gave his hearty support to the hill as it stood, and lie trusted that, fortherathe of catching a few stray votes, the government would not consent to neutralise any of its provisions. They had been taunted for weeks with giving encouragement to malcontents in both divisions of the empire, and their defence had been, that in the existing state of the law they had no power of supp ression. He trusted, then, that latrine the hill no nearly within their grasp they would I not part with it, hut would administer it with a reverend record fir proper and remind ounetitutional liberty. 'Mr. ANSTEY would support the bill for the reasons so able muted by hi. hoe. and learned friend the Solicitor-Ge neral. In answer to the hon. member for Montrose, he isegeol to state, that under the existing law punishment it Oa be found for the offences named in the hill. The measure of the government was intended to mitigate the severities of the existing law—there was nothing in it that contradicted any principle of our constitution. It was an improvement not only on the law as eetablisOed by ancient decisions, but it was an improvement on the statute of Edward 11., and brought us back nearer to those days when trea s on itself was not a capital offence, by creating an inter. mediate offence between sedition and high treason. He looked on the bill as an offering to the tolerant spirit of the age, and as an inducement to the people to support the go vernment in their present wise and moderate course for the suppression of crime, and he should the refore su pp ort it. Mr. AGLION BY considered that ministers had consulted the welfare of the public in introducing this hill. (Hear.) The objection to the third clause which referred to words written and published or spoken openly end ad visedly, appeared to lie made under an entire mis apprehension of the effect of that clause. The of fence was made penal only when the object was, by levying war, to make an attempt against the lile or liberty of the sovereign, or to overawe the parliament, .ar to incite foreigners to invade this country. With regard to written words, there was sufficient protection to the accused, for unless they were published as well as written, no offence was committed; and if publication took place, the parties ought to be punished. Then as to spoken words. It was not in tended by the clause, nor would it have the effect of pre venting the free expression of opinion, unless such expreesion was calculated to incite to the levying of war for the purposes stated, and was made publicly. It would not punish a man (as had been contend , cl) for %peaking his sentiments at his own dianer-table, however extreme those sentiments might be, unless he addressed himself to multitudes, and endeavoured to incite them to levy war against the government, in which case he ought to be punish ed. (Hear, bear.) A jury would always distinguish between the open and tearless expression of opinion and words in tended as an incitement to levy war. First, there was a safe guard in the word " advised, ' which would prevent inten tions h.ing attributed which might never have existed; and then there was the effectual safeguard of a British jury, who would always distinguish between expeasions used in the heat of argument, and expressions used " advisedly," and with intent. tie was, however, of opinion that the punish ment of transportation for lie was too severe for the offence; and he proposed to move au amendment in committee to as similate the bill, in respect to punishment, more to the 5 &6 Vic., which hid been panned ter putting an end to hose mad attempts which had previously prevailed of shooting at the sovereign. (Hear, hear.) To the principle of the measure, he. however, gave a hearty support. Lord NUGENT, though coueurring in the measure gene rally,thought the third clause did not provide sufficient secu rity against the errors of the reporter or the malice of the in former—and he proposed to move a proviso, which should render it nee scary before nay prosecution could take place in rk spect to treasonable or salkious words spoken, that the report of the short-hand writer or other person who took down the words, should be submitted to the speaker, either i mm ediately, or within a week after they were were spoken, such admission, denial, them. (Cries of " OIL oh.") He did not require the government to give a specific answer to the present demands of the people, but what he wished to point to was the ques tion—What must be the state of the public mind which ren dered such preparati ons necessary ? (Oh, oh.) How was that feeling engendered on the part of the mums, If not by the utter and contemptuous neglect by the noble lord of their tut and equitable demands ? Such preparations against the public were never considered necessary even in France, save during the ministry of a Polignac or a Ginza. Afar, hear.) Nor had they been deemed necessary in London until the noble lord (J. Russell) became minister. (Hear, and oh.) The hon. member for Nottingham could not have roused the millions if he had not had political justice to his cause. He never could have persuaded the people that they were wronged if real and substantial wrong did not exist. And se long u those wrongs continued so long that hon. member would occupy his strong position Not only would he be hacked by 100,000 but 500,000, and even twice that number would some day come forwara and be ready to back him personally in demonstrations, until they got their political rights. He firmly believed that the govern ment war wrong In its apprehension of the intended procession. Had it been permitted to take place he believed they would have been there quite as peaceably stated as they now were. The people of England had only one constitutional male of appealing against political grievances—that, namely, of as sembling together and petitioning the Ileac The present crisis was brought on, not by the importunity of the people, but by the dishonesty of the noble lord and his colleague*, and it was a gross injustice to say, when the populace assem bled in numbers to enter their protest agate et the wrongs they endured, that they were actuated by a disloyal feeling °wards the Queen. He did net distrust the Crown. The people did not distrust the Crown. Bet both himself and the people distrusted the government. The noble lord had ' accused, by his bill, the whole nation of criminal designs. be cause of the speeches of a few excited persons. Could any one wonder at the excitement of the people out of doors, or not wonder at the conduct of the government ? Had not the government sympathised with the proceedings of foreign nations? And yet wher. the people of Englund canoe forward and asked, not for revolution, hut for justice, the I reply of the noble lord wee the gagging bill under considera tion. As far as he understood it the bill proposed t> trans port a man for expressing an abstract opinion upon govern ments. The noble lord might deny such to be his intention, but the effect of the bill would be as he sail. He would not trespass further on the time of the house, but would con clude by seconding the amendment. Sir B. HALL said that after he had listened to the discur sive speech of the hon. member he was surprised to find he was not going to vote for the second reading. The hon. member had only objected to a few words in the bill which might be discussed in the committee ; for his own part lie should have deemed the government to have neglected its duty had not ministers come down and put a stop to sedition end treason by proposing some such measure. The speeches of the hon. member for Nottingham in that house were loyal and not subversive of the inAitutious of the country. But ho regretted to say that his writings were not of thetcharacter. In the Northern Star of some days ago he found a letter sigeed by the hon. member, two columns and a half long, and containing an expression which he should be glad to tear the hon. member explain. The hon. member, talk.ng of the crown, said. " There is behind the throne a power greater than the crown, and let them put the pope, the devil, or the , pretender on the throne, be cared not." The hon. member cried " hear." It he (Sir B. Hall) had taken an erroneous view of his words, he should he glad to be co rrected. But the only construction he could tut upon them was, that the hon. member was quite indifferent who was on the throne, inasmuch as he said it was alike to him whether the monarch was the pope or the devil. 1" Ilear" and Laughter.) Repre senting as he did 350,000 of the inhabitants of the metropee !is, it had been his lot to witneu the conduct of all classes during the late crisis, and he must bear a willing testimony to the loyalty and desire to promote order, of all, from the peer down to the poorest labourer. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said that he was not only ready to avow having written the passage, which the hon. member had quoted, but also to say that he did not consider them to be other than in perfect consonance with the expressions used by him in that house. Me. HUME—Would not occupy the house with di-putes as to the speeches or writings of individu ds. They had had quite enough of such discussions. There were parts of the bill that he cordially approval of. All he wished to ask was whether the noble lord would a bate five words a it which he of to ? He looked upon the change of the punishment of death, proposed by the bat in cases of felony by high treason, to be an improv. , ment. But the five words which he objected to would, if retained, be likely to subject brave and honest men to the punishment of felony. Those words were, "by open and advised speaking." If the noble lord would agree to withdraw those words, there could be no objection to the bill. If otherwise, he should oppose it. Whilst they were improving legislation, by the diminution of the number of punishable political crimes, the measure before the house went directly to increase them. If he, sitting at his table, were advisedly to utter opinions at variance with the law he would be liable to transp >nation, under the present bid. He recollected that Mr. Muir had been transported, in 1796, on a similar charge which, by the Scotch law of sedition, was proved upon him by his servant woman. The practice of that day and the law under which the convictions of Muir and the other Scotch reformers were procured were denounced by Lord Holland as infa mous, and in fact that particular offence styl , d leasing making was subsrquently abolished and erased from the statute-book. But the present bill would revive that offence unless the words he had pointed out were omitted. It was always unwise to pass a severe law on an emergency. If the noble lord had received secret information on which he could rely that danger was to be apprehended, let him ask for a bill for a few months, but he would venture to say that the crown and property would be more secure under the present law than under any that the noble lord could devise. Secret societies would be the result of the proposed bill, and so would espionage, as had formerly been the ease, whereby the annals of the kingdom were stained. If the bill passed as it at pr , emit stood, the country would be subject to the same perils that had me naced foreign countries, end from the same causes. In France it was the suppression of truth and of public opinion that had sprung the mine which blew the government there to atoms. Let the ministers beware ! The present bill was a step in the same direction that was followed by the French government. But at the same time he must say that he in stituted no comparison between the middle classes of Eng land and el France, and he regretted to see bill introduced by which a doubt was thrown over the honesty and loyalty of the middle classes. The government and jthe aristocracy would be lost if the middle classes did nut stand by them, and he hoped to see the latter insist upon bringing forward measures to smi liorate the condition of the lower orders. He did emphatically say that the present was not the time to bring forward such a bill. The manifestation of that day ought to prove sufficient to induce the rive:want to with draw the bill. At the'samo time, he did not think there ought to be a national convention sitting. He was anxious to give the labouring classes a right to vote, and at the same time to raise the standard of their intellectual attainments. He had often said that he would allow a man to say what he liked, provided he kept his hands off. (Laughter.) He did not think that government would gain in public opinion by this attempt to strengthen the law. They should trust the people of England, and they would be loyal; hut, restrain their expression of opinion, gag them, and he must confess that he for one dreaded the consequences that might ensue. The main ofts.nee created by this bill was the attempt to overawe parliament. Why, how had the Reform Bill been obtained? Was it not by overawing parliament? (Hear, hear.) Without continually overawing, plaguing, and teas ing parliament, nothing was ever obtained for the people If the noble l'rd end the government were afraid of the con vention, why not use the law as it stood? By the 30th Oeo. 111., it might be put down at once, and •by not use that law ; (II ar, hear). The saute law existed in England, Sualsial, and Irelau.l. Ile thaught that government had been badly advised, and that the pollee commissioners had acted mat improperly in appealing to an act so obsolete and - s. 11. If that act was to be revived, had been introduc.ed, • ... as important ever brought before parliament, Ile approved a the ton- i tyrannical as the 13 Chas. 11. Itches ea. . . _ „ __ _ solidation and modification of the law which the tile people of England should knew what they hail to expect. for him to admit , deny, or explain, .._ admieston, oe_ , measure went to effect, but he could never give In Blackstone, vol. I. page 142 the act was described as and explanation ;signed ' by him, to be used as evidence on the ment wag getting worse, or .- people o his W = ent to the provision which went to gag free pew/klieg " That no petttion to the King, or either house of trial, arid in the event of the party charged refusing to ad- worse. After carrying sat the government so long without &nue/lion. and even made thought a felony. As soon parliament, for ally alteration in church or mete, shall be m eal , deny, or explain, the report to be taken no correct.. this law, after all our boasted =prove:mutts, were we now its the bia was passed the noble lord might go to teethed by above twenty persona, unless the matter thereof Mr. B. OSBORNE Led voted for the introduction of the to introduce a new p er of legislaion, when even Lord Grenville, in 1795 or 96. had been obliged to withdraw from Mount Ye mon, and inscribe on the tomb of Washington, be approved by three ymtices of ti the p ct or the bill, but when the measure was put into his hands that Here lies • felon -,- and the like inscription might be pieced major part of the grand jury in the country ; and morning, and he saw the words "or by open or advised the bill of that day ? That clause was then most strongly of the government, the then Duke of Bedford ; and it was opeo the weaves of Hampden and Sydney. lie had never in Lousier' hy the lord mayor, aldermen, and speaking," he was FO struck with the gravity and weight objected to by • relative of the noble lord now at the tread anticipated the pessibility of such a measure as the t a m al es common cooncil ; nor shall any oetitien he presented °I the novel principles which they proposed to introduce being pr ig by those who now occupied th e tamales by more than ten persons at a time." Was it possible that into our spoon of government that he determined in defence of that bill and that clause that a bishop had where the noble "intend his colleagues sat. It war another government ceula mean to revive such a law as that ? on voting with what he feared would he the m i. made hie celebrated declaration, '• that the people of this invegon r e( all those rights which they hail always p (Hem, hear.) They might contend it was law, but he eon. nority on the present occasion. (Ilear, hear.) When country bad nothing to do with the lowa but obey them." a e., dto revere allli maiutain. What was the object of the tendea it was riot, being repealed with other arbitrary laws they were voting for the better security of the crown, (Hear.) lie did not object to the Mot put of this bill -bet hal ? What wan its justi rat ? They would, no doubt, by the Bill of Bights. That Was the opinion of Mr, Donning they should not forget the security of the people. (Hear.) he thought the house was in mistake as to what would be is tactical operation. It came before the home as a mitig .- te eemindea of what had taken place in Ireland. It was not as oppmeal to Lord Mansfield. The act furtrovided that Pass such an act as this, and they could not ensure that p his intentim to vindicate that night the speeches uttered by any itaringement of its provisions was th e re visited be a security of the people, which, to e ndanger, would be to Lion of penalty ; but t penalty, for the most part, could eertalu indivieloals—those who were shortly to be put on penalty of lea mid three months' imprisonment fur ea c h strike a blow at the safety Cl the crown and the govern. net be carried into tha t ; e and theugh he denied not the their trial for holiest so spoken. But WY it fair, let him offence. Why, he lied himself recently presented a petition. ment. (Hear.) There was another reason why they propriety of substituting for capital puniehment one of a ask, to extend the proposed measure to the 27,000,000 inlia- signed by 4do penults, and had, of course, broueht himself should pause before they affirmed this hill. Gov e rnment minor character, he believed its practical effect weuld be to bitents of Great Britain, and to the colonies—for all British within. the aperatien of the aCt. He trustee that govei amen( was too •apt to take aderintage in their legislation of the ex- punish many men by transportotion who could now only be tried for sedition, and ',mashed for a miselemeeuour. subjects weuld I.e s ubjected to th e crime of felony created would net talent on perpctu ling so aboird ane dese o tie a eitement ocaasioned by passing events. Lew, passed under ura a.t. the new law I.—was it, he repeated, Mk to gag . Whole piene et legislation. the influence of excitement were usually paes.ei in haste , I (Hear, hear.) It he timer:awed the clause right (mid its notians far the indiscretion of a few ? There were cready TIITNL said that his hon. friend 1 and were seldom good laws. As was proposed to he done ambiguity WES Filth he eoubted if any one did), it meant 11 inventions, devices, or meemions, or any of them," should be stringentlawsagainet sedition, and every aid and help should the me mber e for Montrose mu ,; have misunderstood thethis case, they were hurried through with less considers. that any one who exercised such "compassing, imaginatious, be given to make those lawe effective, and if it were nectnerary teatime of the bill. lie was sorry that there should be on the lion than was usually given to a common turnpike trust unishment awarded to that offence . lie had yet to consolidate and to enforce them. But when it war part of his hon. friend, and the hon. member for the Tower act. The noble lord (J. Russell) seemed to have forgotten liable to be charged with felony, and to receive the was a crime for any one, in or out of the he use, Calmly and eatempted to extend the sweep of those laws, and to being Hamlets, any departure from the general feeling of the what Mr. Burke had mid, as to open and advised P within their operation acts which were now recognised 'as home, which was to secure the safety of the country without speaking. Mr. Burke said, " that open and ad- to learn that it was wrong for any member of that house to constitutional, then he trusted the house would interfere and say injury to the coustitution. The hon. member for the voted speaking was the safety-ealve of the constitution, sPeak in favour of a different form of government • or that it sty to the niiniateri " Thus far bleat thou go and uo farther." Tower Hamlets couaplained that ten new felonies would be by means of which the but air was let off." co n k however, It had ever hee n the practice of governments, when they had created by the bill, mid his bon. friend the member for he (Mr. B. Osborne) waeted • reason for voting against the deliberately to argue the question whether a total change by their melpractices driven the people to despair, an Ito a Moatreee deprecated it as an invasion of th.• right of peti. measure, it was furnished by the speech ot the Solicitor- in the form of government might be adv a ntageous. (Oh, l i manifestation of their &teethe to come forward and work tion. But the bill did not interfere with the legitimate right General, which was a mere piece of special pleading as to oh• / law, and introducing a new princiPle, to punish an offence He advocated no such change • but in making anew upon the fears of the alas classes by conjuring up of petition or of discussion, nor would it touch the case of weeds.eaning which a jury would probably attach to the scenes of eiclenee, and wider the impressions created by those pawns who might is alolaelliS of eloquence he induced to e Anothet lawyer, the hon. and learned member for I which was most difficult of proof, the house ought to be el. wire to seek to extend such a law to England, because at this apprehensiens to induce the leghlature to assent to new ins use words which their sober reason would regret. The 1 Youghal (Mr. Anstey), had told them that the only alters- tremely clear as to the effect of this law. He thought it un -Imoment there was danger in Ireland. He would ask the fricgemente on the liberty of the people. What had the bill, with the exception ot four words, was identical with 1 tion the hill would eflect in the present law was to mitigate ministers done for the millions who hail heaped their oeti- , the 57th George 111. The fisst part was not touched. The its geverity—inamh as open and avowed speaking was time on the fl ior of the house ? When the n o bl e ors additional clause wm, " Who shall intend to levy war now treason. But t he bon. and learned member forgot (J. Russell) was asked if he would repeal the ratepaying against her Majesty for the purpose of compelling her, by to add such open and avowed speaking must he followed by I Attorney-General whether it was not possible to issue a spe cie' commission for the trial of the parties charged these parties were under this charge, they were at liberty to go to France, or make other aeditiout speeches, before clauses of the Reform Bill he answered " No." When he force, to change her measures or councils, or for the purpose an evert act of treason to complete the otience. (H ew, with sedition in Ireland. The complaint was, that whilst war ax whether he would COIESSSE CO abolish chelach mem, of nelitare force or constraint on, Or intimidating, or over- hear.) England, however, did not Gee her liberties to their trial came on; but if they were tried and convicted he said " N - .. - When he was urged to revise the sysMm of awing, Lee government:' The mode by which such inter - lawyers, and if the house depended on them now they taxation he eta mid " No." To all and every demand put tion was to be expressed, was, "By writing, or open and ad- would impair the securities of the people. not better the forward by the people the reply G. T noble lord was stall vised tptaaaing." Therefore, uo sPeaking would come within security ot the crown. They hid heard much of the respect under a special commission, they could be immediately sub ., No." And even w h e n h e (Mr. G. Thompson) reeked the the meaning of the act, unless it should, in the opinion of • • due to the crown, and he hoped he was not deficient et e el to three years' imprisonment, and thus prevented would be a much better course than to extend a new law Ann other ni g ht rue an inquiry into one of the most disgraceful iury, be uttered for the Tempests of levyiag war, or of corn- in that feeling. So long as the crown maintained horn spreading their seditious or treasonable opiniom. This a new principle to the United Kingdom because Ireland wall transsctions ever cflected, the repiy.to his demand was the yelling that house, by force, to take memures which it would its duty to the people he would support it, and in dif fi culties. The government was pursuing a course um everta-ting " No" which min istry °nosed to all not otherwise adopt. (Hear, hear.) It was to be observed uphold the present order of thirgs ; but when the favourable to itself and to the liberty of the people; and efforts t gettir e e jell t i e . The finality which th e that, under the pre th at law, such offence would be trmson, crown forget ita duty to the country, his obligations and though that house might not choose to deliberate long on the noble 1 oal bad once eieclaied to be his piaci& but he admitteel that the offence was rattier difficult of respect ceased. A near relative of the prime minister, the measure, the time might come when they might regret that in respect to reform appeared to have Teel adopted b, him prom. The difficulty of obtaining an accurate report of present Duke of Bedford, had, in 1818, when Marquis of e n they had not examined it with more attention. as a general rule ay house to all queetions of Public Poli t e. words spoken would operate in Jae present bill, hut that, Tavistock, laid it down, that " true loyalty consisted in pre. (Hear, hear ) And what hat been the result of the noble he comeived, would be a seechs of protection to the serving, not in.restricting, the li .erties of the people." lord's; systein r Even now, at a moment when tbe people percents aceuva. ( Oh, oh.) Besides, the offence must that sentiment he fully concurred, and he hoped the house Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he objected to the whole of the doubtless owing to their assembled by thousands on Kennington-cemmon, to- Peti - be Proved to the tatisfactim of a common jury, and he did would not be induced, under the circumstances o ho he bill. He rejoiced to find that English members etre at last tion the house, what Was the re, ly made to them 111 010 not thick that such • jury weuld be getsect, unless country, to restrict those liberties by legidation in a spirit rallying against coercive measures, confinea to hellos], they Would vote it With the greatest noble lar.as ministry i No Christi-on wan could read with- the reef were of a moot satisfactory character. He telmitted adverse to the institutions of the country. (Hear.) He own country being touched by this bill. lie did not thank were rather mem expressious. could not permit the speech of the right hen. isart. afir G. i them much, for must est them had said that if the bill was out the deepest camera the description given by the news- I that " open tied aavieed" papers of the prep e atioas made by the government to Meat (Hear, hem.) If a man, addreifing a pualic meeting, Grey), to pass without sume observation. It mightdo well, fa 1 poo d this bill. ifce and recur feel that hr could n being a martyr fur cur the penalty, It wss to maintain that they introclut or hesitate for a me and the necessity o day would show it —not of the upper working classes—i they had seen so bad been made a b t el, (Hear, ht the case when, • magnanimous (.0114 (cheers) —w hen, o pay to the name an and love which the the respect and VI monstrations of for nand, and which t which without the could no more k been preserved. at of the metrop4 hear.) This pow when they contra with what it woulc there was no mut and security of roc atitutions but the • ewe of the great t assured the hon. n a party to the that the libertit way be infringed the power of disco meetings, would t this bill pissed, at the same time, would b: checked i rose in arms wool who excited other in their impunity. he asked Vern to he was told that tl the same as was he hoped with coo would consent ur t Mr. HORSMA: of " Divide, dint moved that the de Mr. HUME see Lord J. RUSSI member. Mr. HORSMA he should vote for that the noble lon which precluded cedent for such a who withdrew tb which then pass modify. Mr. HINDLE' second reading on The house (Hsi, Sir G. GREY on the bill. Mr. AGLIONI the bill. Mr. J. °TON: struck out of the Mr. HUME be constitution, by and believing atm who only support. ministers to delay country knew wn next should he lb Bir:G. Glt EY who were nuw hr pass es speedily a meet to-morrow committing the t making some Teri Mr.IRUME ht Mr. J. O'CIJN the following del Lord J. R. 78.; able to bring fore in the evening, w Mr. GARDNE member— (Oh, oh.) He begge would not deco length completelj at down fur a m• house do now a during which Sir hon. member to r tion.) Mr. Gerd had taken the cm be able to deli had net been ebb urged by the nob He objected to tb which was one 01 quotedme vi just for su Pe°ha wpedrovepeoph hppeethlldnee.ehte cared u hb m e o S vt ts r po whet w er o s gig sanative princip to the progress ni Mr. AGLRES bred in the earl] third clause, woi object of the hoe tinction betwcer Mr. F. OTC grounded his 11, Solicitor-Gensti gentleman's exp most ambiguous position in his p oenstitutional pi hid acted most the crown in thi came law he s country to the c not in doing so (Near, hear.) put in its place man in that hot which that dal was not Englan would be estim , Mr. J. O'CO: _ fortiiaCitti,;;; of the house. Lord J. RUS for the repeal c same hour, whe Mr. HUME 4 rick had a riAlit move as an ,am that day week. Mr. WAK.I.I The house di A motion wa upon which th. Ayes .. Noes .. On our retur Mr. G. THO not give scowl • t►ey were nos of speech —a ri and which oug anent. (Oh, e this hill to de hear) —or to empire. ( I lee who denied LI they were now right of the Ile defied hot the people tha bon or desire government 11 of the most slaughter. (I ruptions.) II the responsib that the house Mr. WAX adjournment Sir O. OKI the hon. mem allowed to tal not being a gi hotel:mama, a The how The bill wi (this day) at The house teeloek to-mo ( 84 4 SA kIASIONERS Widener, wi tommiotiottei SPedd COW C , Mkbellt ; at annum. Th ploycd tempi 7001 . per my in district, ai are . 46 inrpo H Peods 11. Is. per di and allowani duty, and tr SWITZ APril 6 by Federal Du formation 01 they a l so tm,