The Express. — London, England, 1847-02-16 00:00:00

Maya, had been sli.mimeed from the board of guardians of the Civtiebar Union by the government. He wished to ask if that was correct, and, if comet, what steps had been taken to supply their places, to collect the arrears of pool,- rates due in mid union, and to levy a future rate ? Sir 0. GREY replied that it wan quite true these parties had been diseniesed ; but they had been dismissed, not by the government, but by the poor-Lau commissioners, who whocould, bad powers under their act fur s uch dismissals, and w under the same act, :apply the sacaucies after a second fail ure, by appointing a body of paid commissioners. Some paper. upon the subject would be laid before the house in a few days. Mr. P. SCROPE wished to ask whether any prosecution had been instituted, or was intended to be instituted, by the government in the cases of those parties who bad shut up their workhouse for three months and refused relief to the paupers who applied, the consequence of which was deaths from starvation in that union, to the infinitu disgrace, as he conceived, of these authorities ? Sir G. GREY was in possession of no information leading him to suppnse that any sues prosecution had been or would be instituted. THE WELLINGTON STATUE. Mr. C. BERKELEY hoped that he should have an explicit and intelligible answer to the following questions " Whether any application had been made to the Woods and Fonds by the Committee of the Wellington Statue to remove the ir.affoliling round the arch at Hyde Park Corner; if so, at whose expense such removal was to take place ; and whether any stipulatiou had been made with the committee for the re-erection of Um seaffolniug, and the ultimate removal of the statue ? " Viscount AIORPETH begged to state, in reply, that he had received an intimation from the sub-committee of the We llington statue that they had given direction: to the sculptor to remove any remai obstructed the view of the statue from the north, or Picca dilly side of the park—(much laughter)—as they conceived a sufficiently good view had nut been obtained at present to enable the government fairly to judge of the merits of this work of art upon its present position. (Renewed laughter.) Certainly the government had been of opinion that a suffi ciently good view had been obtained without further ahem tion—(bear, hear) —but that was a matter which they left Be the sutecommittee and the sculptor. He (Lord Morpeth) should add, that the nub-committee had stated, in the Ye communication, that if the government, after the rassawi d' ' the scaffolding, were still of opinion that the status timid be removed, the subcommittee would feel themselves bound to act accordingly ; of course, replacing the Waft and removing the statue at their own co s t . They ( go vernment) would be sorry that any additional or unessemary expense should be incurred, but of course this was a question for the committee rather than for himself. He might take this opportunity of adding, that on • et view of the different sites oil which ttns statue might be placed, they were of opinion that the north side of Waterloo-place was the meth eligible position, as being the place where the best light I could be obtained. Mr. MACKINNON wished to ask the noble lord whether he was aware that among the ancients—(a laugh)—it was considered a great indignity to remove a statue erected to the honour or memory of any man, and if he was aware that at Pompeii—(loud laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.") — a statue bad been found precisely in thesame attitude—(loud Isoghter)—and placed over an arch precisely in the same manner as the Wellingkin statue ? If the noble lord had seen it he should be happy to show him a print of it. Viscount MORPETH said that whatever might be the opi nionof autiquity he did not think it would, in this country, be considered an indignity to remove a statue from a place where its appearance was considered to be decidedly dis advantageous ; and, with respect to the illustration of the hon. member, he might remark that, in the days of Pompeii, art was certainly not supposed to be in its most palmy state. and that statues there were also liable to snore violent methods of displacement. (Laughter and cheers.) FACTORIES. Sir W. JAMES asked whether government intended, in conformity with the recommendations of the factory in spectors, to amend the Factory Act with regard to the edu cation of children in print works, the cuing and the nog the the machinery in mills, and the employment of ch below the age of 13 in silk mills? Sir G. GREY said that on the first point the views el government had ben explained ; on the second, the in spectors of factories had unanimously recommended that a change should take place, and a bill would be proposed with that object ; with regard to the third point, it vas not in tended to propose any measure without further inatdry. Mr. BRIGHT asked if there was not a p ower g iven to the inspectors in the Factory Act to oblige masters to case off and guard the machinery which they considered to be dangerous? Sir G. GREY replied in the affirmative, but said the pro vision was a general one, and was considered defective. Of course, if it turned out that the act gave sufficient powers, I there would be no occasion for a new bill. COST OF THE PUBLIC WORKS, &c., IN IRELAND. In reply to Lord G. BENTINCK. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the number of officers employed on the public works, other than the destitute poor, am punted to 10,897, and their daily pay amounted to 2,7741., which, multiplied by 6, would give their weekly pay. The highest rate of pay was to officers of the engineers, who received 30s. a day, with their travel ling expenses, and ten shillings a day extra when limn home. The lowest sum tad was to overseers of works, who received 2s. a day. The &mould of the cast of maintaining this staff amounted to 78 0301. fee four weeks. Of that amount, how ever, 20,8001. was paid from other sources • but there were extra expenses, the precise amount of which he could not state. The average weekly wages paid to the destitute poor might be taken at from Bd. to Is. Id. The gross amount of payment in maintaining the destitute poor during the nine weeks of November and December wan 1,030,000 f. The next inquiry . was as to the quantity of corn imported by government into Ireland. It appeared that up to the middle of 'snowy they had imported 218,000 quarters. The noble lord also wanted en know what quantity had been given out; but to this question he could not reply, as most of the pro vision-stores had only been opened at the end of December, and as the distribution bad ance been going on from day to day. The big question of the nolie lord was, what was the ratio of the expenses of the staff to the expenses of the per sons employed. Now to this he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could not give a precise answer. RAILWAYS (IRELAND). —ADJOURNED DEBATE. The order of the day for the resumption of the adjourned debate having been read. The Marquis of GRANBY rose. He commenced by re gretting the course government had pursued in making this a party question. Whether the distresses of Ireland arose from absenteeism, or from the negligence of landlords, the inherent disposition of the Irish people or a system of underletting laud. The fact with which they had t o deal was I this—that the population of Ireland had increased to &much greater extent than its capital. Now, what was the remedy for this state of things? They roust either diminish the po pulation, or increase the capital. His noble friend, in in troducing this bill, had seated so forcibly the benefits it would confer upon Ireland, the new ma e rkets—(A laugh) ch it would open in that country, and th advantages whi would result to the people therefrom, that he (the Marquis of Granby) should not dwell for a moment on these points. This was not a case of over-exciting the energies of a pros perous and thoroughly employed country, but, on the osmosis trar7, the giving some animation to a country In a retest terrible state of depression. Wherever internal eammismden tion, even on a small scale, had been effected in Ireland, it had been productive of beneficial results, both to the pros perity and to the morality of toe population. The government said that the difficulty of raising the sixteen millions was, in itself, a reason why it should be refused ; but there were men of the highest authority on financial affair., who, on the contrary, considered that there would he no difficulty . at all in the molter, and that no evil to England would arise from the admire of the money. All he could himself my on the poiat was, that if England could not raise four millions a year, fee leer years, for the support of starving Ireland, there must be something radically wrong in the state of *Malian, and they had better retrace their steps. It was ferthor objected that this was a proposition to tax the Eng- Mt people ; such was not the fact ; his noble friend did not nem to tax the English people to the extent of one farthing. The right bon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) ialalikediera that the railway work contemplated by the noble member kr Lynn would take labour from agriculture. The right YOU. gentleman need be under no apprehension on this more. Give the full employment upon these railways, and retain the full labour required in agriculture in Ireland, and there would still be wetly, many hands unemployed. As to the suggestion that railways would proceed in Ireland without government assistance, he re garded such an expectation so wholly ?utile. He believed that the bill of his noble friend would confer immediate and permanent benefit on Ireland, without the least possible cost to the people of this country. Nay. he believed that it would put seven hundred thousand pounds into the imperial treasury. (Hear.) He trusted, however. that they would not look at the question in merely a pecu niary view, but would take a molder range, and think of the ant prosperity they would confer upon Ireland; and C r i r cli i :w of no higher or nobler gratification than the recol lection of having generously come forward in aid of a suffer bog people. (Cheers.) Mr. W. BROWN said he rose merely to deal with the bill itself, not to examine or contend with the arguments which bad risen out of it. He con. sidered that that bill had been ushered into the world aim* still-born and that it could never be carried into abet. The condition of the 20th clause, was, that the stoeltholden should advance one-third of the capital, the government advancing the other two-thirds; but govern. stem was to have a mortgsge and right of pre-emption on the whole, to secure themselves.. He did not think that shareholders would readily come forward and thus give up their property to mortgage, while there were so many more secure Inver meras to be had. Col. MURE did not with to be understood as opposing a judicious advance of public money for public works in Ire land; but he considered the scheme now proposed as one of a very questionable character. Aid. THOMPSON said the first objection to the mount measure was, that it would interfere with works which should be carried oo by private capitol ; and the second was, that it would derange the financial affairs of the country. Now, with respect to the first point, there were a great many I rats for government assistance. Parliament had voted precedents sums for the execution of turnpike roads and canals in England, Scotland, the colonies, and in Ireland itself. It might be said that these were old cases ; but so lately as 18:36, a committee of that house was appointed specially to inquire how public works in Ireland might he extended with the aid of the state. The report of that committee stated, that among remedial measures for Ireland, there were none about wfilth there was lees difference of opinion than the encouragement of public works. Bee sine' after the :merriment of the day introduced `set of *lnch was to aid public works in Ireland ' eve millions. (Hear, hear.) But that wee tat time at She bill, =Ohs back @Mk& as the name of the Attorney-General for Ireland, be found inserted his own name along with that of Sir J. L. Goldsmitit, as lemons who were to main in carrying out it. pros biome It wa. true that the country was labouring under some finaroiel difficulty at the present moment, and that the value of irovernment stock was depreesel, but was not the state of Ireland in a great measure the cause ? (lime, hear.) Was it not the scarcity of food in that country that occasioned our large imports and comparatively email exports ? The noble lord had not et teed theta what the expenditure under his various measures for the relief of Ireland would be —whether it would be five, seven, nine, or eleven millions. If the bill of his noble friend the member for Lynn passed, might they not fairly expect that the amount required under I the government immures would he less by the sum which might be advanced for the construction of Irish railways ? Government must borrow the money they proposed to advance in WOW wily or other, and they must provide by some means for the payment of the interest and the loan. The noble lord's (Lord G. Bcntinck's) plan involved no imeeme of taxation to pay the interest upon the money he permed to raise; all he asked was that the government should lend its credit. He saw neither difficulty nor danger in such a plan. The advances were not to be made without seenrity, and it was not to be supposed that the hosed would easmastalmi any money to he advanced where the security wee Inedkient. He believed there was capital enough in the tountrvatotwithstinding what had been said by the hon. mem ber for . South Lancashire,and that people would be found ready enough to advance four millions during the next year, should so much be required for the construction of railways in Ire land, under the guarantee of the government, at 31 per cent. The principle had been already sanctioned by the go ventment in the measure he had already alluded to, and, if he was rightly informed, within the last few days it had been decided by the government that money should be &dement to the extent of some 4) millions ter the construction of railways in the East 'lndies, and purely the starviug people of Ireland had a greater claim. (Hear.) He hoped, before the conclusion of this debate, the right hon. baronet, the president of the Board of Control, would lay upon the table obi' decision of the board with regard to the In dia railwars. (Hear, hear.) It had been urged that this bill would raise the value of railway property in Ireland. Why, it had long been the subject of complaint that English capital did not flow with sufficient freedom into Ireland; and now when it was proposed to encourage the Investment of English capital in that country in a manner oakakbed to give employment to the destitute people, and east a permanent improvement, it was objected that it veil teed to promote ganiblitig. He regretted that the seventmot bed not taken the plan of his noble friend, end estahheed it with their own measures. Nothing amid le fen objectionable or mere demoralising than to pro vided:od as proposed by the government, leaving the recipients to lie down idle until they required another meal ; whereas if the party receiving the tood were supplied with the means of obtaining employment, with the understanding that unless he availed himself of it no further relief would be given, be could understand that much good might Mutt. Mr. F. FRENCH considered that Ireland would owe a deep debt of gratitude to the noble lord, whether he suc ceeded or not, for he was the first statesman who had ventured to come forward and, admitting the magnitude of the ev propose • plan that must point the way . to future legUlatlon. Hereafter all governments most, in dealing with Ireland, follow in the broad and open path of grappling with the real evils of the case, and that narrow and petty legislation which had hitherto prevailed would by the noble lord's conduct be effectually put an end to. (Hear.) He complained of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's n 8 the people of Ireland with systematically avoidi ng pecuniary liabilities to this country. Whether such accusa tions came from his political friends or opponents, he would always raise his voice against them. The honour able member for Inverness had contrasted the con duct of the Scotch landlords with that of the Irish le deeds, in regard to their willingness to take advantage of the Drainage Act, and so find employment for their tenants in improving their own estates; but the hon. gentleman should know that many applications for advances under that act had been made by Irish landlords, which, however, had been umuccessful, in consequence of a decision of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer, that tenants for life could not avail themselves of the provisions of the mea sure. He admitted the country would benefit by the pro motion of railways, but he preferred the government measure, which he considered was more calculated to give employment to the people—to improve the property, and in every way more calculated to lead to permanent benefit than that of the noble lord the member for Lynn. Mr. NEWDEGATE repudiated the assertion that it was the intention of his noble friend's scheme to add to the bur. dens of the people of this country. The loan proposed was intended as a substitute for the money which a wrung from the hard-worked people of England to relieve their suffering brethren of Ireland. And when the sum of ea nen millions was named, it was meant as the extreme limit, not as forminz any criterion of the actual amount which would be advanced. The amount to be advanced would depend upon the cha racter of the company, and of the undertaking in which they were engaged. The failure of the Ulster canal had been referred to as an argument against the bill of his noble friend; but surely that should not form an absolute barrier against using the credit of this country for the relief of Ire land—(hear, hear) —particularly as the only loan advanced on railway security bad been reclaimed. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said that the security under the bill would be bad as applied to the poorest parts of the country, while its application to the richest parts would not meet the exi gency. That was a fallacy, based upon the idea that rail ways were a local work ; whereas the lines that afforded the best security were those upon which there was a thorough walk; so that gnat trunk lines running acmes the country would benefit all parts alike. Now hehegged attension to these figures : dunng the last 11 years acts had been passed for constructing in England 7,200 miles of railway; of these, 2,600 had been completed, leaving uncom pleted 4,603. Within the same period acts had been passed for constructing in Ireland 1,523 miles of rail way, of which 123 had been completed, leaving uncom pleted, 1,400. Thus the capital and credit of England had completed one-third of the lines sanctioned by parliament as necessary for the accommodation of the English people, while in Ireland 1-12th only, or 1-Bth per cent. hat been sompleted. Now if that wan all that private capital could seconiplish in Ireland within 11 years, he asked the house what prospect was there that private capital and enterprise mold supply that country with railway accommodation, more particularly as, according to the authority of the right hon. member for the University of Cambridge, 3-4ths of the capital which bad completed this miserable 1-12th portion of the sanctioned lines Man English capital. (Hear, hear.) To expect therefore that private enterprise would complete the Irish railways was to expect an impossibility. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had admitted that, in case of an emergency, some such measure as his noble friend's should be resorted to. Surely the emergency had already arisen. (Hear, hear.) That and other right hos. gentlemen bad also said that the financial condition of the country precluded the adoption of such a measure. Now of those right hon. gentlemen the member for Portsmouth had, in 1839, voted for an advance of 5,000,0001. for • similar purpose. And yet that was at a period when the bullion in the Bank of England never ex seeded 7,000,0001., being at me time so low as 2,500,0001., and when there was a deficiency in the revenue of 1,300,0001. Contrast that with the present financial condition of the country. We had now 13,000,0001. of bullion in the bank, and no deficiency in the revenue. (Hear, hear.) He ad mitted that there were *fits of a coming commercial crisis, which, according to our present monetary system, would be followed by • monetary difficulty. But was he to be told that because there was • prospect of a commercial difficulty, Ireland should be left to starve ? It was said that the money could not he easily relied ; but they had the authority of the bon. members for Sunderland, Northumberland, and others to the contrary. There was surely capital enough in the country to spare 4,000,0001. for rescuing Ireland from misery and starvation. It was not one-hundredth part of the loan which this country had rained during three successive years of war, when the revenue levied from the people amounted to 75,000,0001. The income-tax in 1813 was 10 per cent., and produced 15.000,0001. Now that it was less than 31 per cent. it produced 5,500,0001.: and if it were now at 10 per cent., it would consequently produce 10,000,0001. If, then, we could raise such sums when at war with one-half of Europe, when our population, our exports, our imports were less by one-half than they are at present, where was the dif ficulty of advancing 4,000,0001. at the present p.riod ? If them were a difficulty in the way, it was not want of capital. He believed there was a difficulty; but he believed that it arose from our monetary system—(hear, bear)—which bears heavily upon the people of this country atilt times. When, for instance, we are prosperous , and when trade is good, it cleanup the channels into which capital would otherwise find its way ; while in times of adversity it renders a stagna tion of trade doubly distressing. He repudiated the notion that his noble friend's measure was instituting a state of disgraceful speculation ; while he trusted, on the other hand, that in the opposition given to it by her Majesty's government, there was no intention after allowing railway enterprise in Ireland to meet its fate, and prvate capital to be sacrificed, to take the whole system into chair own hands, sad, es mos mid by the right hon. gentleman the member for Peelekindle to make something of it ; in fact, to build up rdeellselkeet menspoly upset the Mai of private capital. bed sees Ida earpdee the motljes which the govern- MOW 'keit to this ateneee •f 'Me noble friend, and he was .entloW lot they had not premed to substitute that memes•es seglething like it, for the piens they had adopted ; nest lag they, he conceived, met the proposition of his noble fidend with the liberal feeling and public spirit with which kW been introduced. Mr. J. O'CONNELL rose, with considerable difficulty, to explain the reasons for the vote which he intended to give. He acknowledged the kindness of intention with which the noble lord the member for Lynn had brought forward his project; and while he gave hint every credit far his good intentions towards Ireland, he gladly bees his testimony to the kind manner in which the noble lord bad laid his proposition before the lusum. But his (Mr. J. O'Connell's) difficulty was this, theft ere appeared to be doubts about the merits of the plea is the minds of those spinet whew opinions he could r p i tic ina to place his own. One merit, however, in his , it possessed, in proneising a large expenditure in Tre bling, In addition to sit - Ades which the government was slime to afford. lion. members in England might not be name si the necessity whisk existed for a large expenditure Ileeletedi but they (*.able members), who daily received dike date of digs in that country, knew that an a ltl=n oirmasso tesplesd is t edi thajoeme aset m th en e t d lt a l t r i oft i. :aus e e , Luel: Uri oft drailmit kivehei in the noble lord's project wee irawasirr. Thep in this position that if they voted , nmemare of the noble lord ' they voted spirit ek which they thought necessary to save IMErfigie people of Ireland from perishing is she godelhe. if he thought that the plans of tie wadi labs the expeedivare op to the menet ame after tobi:llAttalttre ero agra l lgii the lb • • . , • THE EXPRESS. TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 16, 1847. - penkored by the noble lord, considering the doulus which hasFaes expressed with reglad to that scheme, he would onto agdpst it, boa the government held out no such hope*. The tight bea gentlemen the Chancelkaof the Exchequer stated that one objection to the measure was the largeness of I the sum to be given to Ireland. He had hoped that the government would have eonadered and adopted that plan when It was urged upon them by those who knew what the real state of distress in Ireland was; or that they would have brought forward a system of government railways something like that which had been proposed SWIM years ago. In France, although there was usually some penuriousness in the system of public expenditure, the government had been committed to a system of railways, and they had found their account in it, for by letting them on short leases they had obtained good returns, besides the advantage of the government being enabled to let them on better arms when the short leans expired. He had hod the gosernment would have done something like this ; hat as they had not done so, and as they had stated that the expenditure by means of the scheme was too large, there was only one chance of getting such an expenditure as wee, be believed, necessary, and that was by supporting the hill of the noble lord ; and on that ground he should vote for it. He was sorry that the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had thought it necessary iu his speech to throw discredit on Ireland in the matter of the repayment of public money. lie had rather over-stated his case and furnished arguments which might be used here after if it was necessary to come forward with at advance of larger sums. The statements of the right hon. gentleman were not consistent with the returns which had been furnished to the how. It was important that this matter should be cleared up. If it was considered that the gamey which had been advanced to Ireland had been jobbed and lost, it was hopeless for the Irish members to ask aid for Ireland. The first item mentioned by the right hon. gentle man was an advance to the city of Dublin of 244,0001, called the Wide Street Loan, which he said was never re paid. But the fact was, that a portion of it was repaid, and the right hon. baronet, the member for Tamworth, when he was secretary for Ireland, raid that it was only a small and just compensation to Dublin for the removal of a resident parliament and gentry, and it could not be expected that the loan would be very punctually repaid after that. Allowing that the statements of the right hon. gentleman were true, yet all those advances were not made out of English money, but out of the revenues of Ire land. He (Mr..l. O'Connell) had moved for a paper, in 1845, which showed, that while the remittances from the English exchequer to Ireland, from the union up to that ' year, had been 9,000,0001., those from the Irish exchequer to England had been 2 6 , 0 40,000/, being 17,000,0071 more than were received. With regard to advances for the Lag gan Canal, it was from a sum of 500,0001 voted for canal navigation, not by the English, but the Irish parliament. In the annual accounts for last year there appeared 3,600,0001 for police purposes in Ireland. If this was an Irish charge alone it would be proper that she should pay it, but the constabulary did duty as soldiers, and if they had not been established the army must have been increased by 8,000 or 10,000 men. Out of this sum, 340,0001 had been repaid. With regard to roads and bridges, 600,0001. had been advanced, all of which had been repaid, except 24,0001. By the finance a-counts the total advanced was 9,000,000 1 ., of which 7,000,0001. had been repaid, and the other 2 , 000,001 . was in course of annual repayment. Ina document which was published in 1842 it appeared that 15,600,0001. had been advanced by Ireland to England, of which only 6,200,0001. had been repaid la the report of Lord Devon's commis sion it was stated that from the higher rate of interest im posed on money advanced to Ireland than was paid by the government for the money which they got, a profit of 50,0001. was made on 1,000,0001. A sum of 1,400,0001. had been expended on Scotch fisheries since 1809 ; while on Irish fisheries there had been only 300,0001 spent since 1800. A aura of 11,0001. was paid annually to Scotland from the imperial revenue, as an equivalent to her, since the period of her union with England. The treaty of union with Ireland had been violated in its fiscal u well as its other conditions ; its provisions relating to money matters had bees infringed. The Act of Uuton contemplated the injustice of the debt of England being placed ne Ireland, and it would be impossible, as was the case in Scot land, to give an equivalent for it. It was provided by the act of union that on the occurrence of two contingencies only should Ireland be subject to that debt. One or these did occur, but the other did not. In 1816 the act for the consolidation of the Exchequer was passed. The consequence was, that England was enabled to throw on the common taxation of the two countries a portion of the charge of the debt, which accrued before the union, which ought to have been provided for separately. If that had not been so it would have been a relief to Ireland of 60,000,0001. It ap peared bystatemrets is parliamentary papers that the relief from taxation to England amounted to 47,100,0001., while to Ireland it was only 2,670,000 1 . The imposition of taxes on England was 4,620,0001., while on Ireland it had been 5,510,000!. The excess of relief in England was 6,500,0001., while in Ireland the excess of taxation wss 2,830,0001. Nothing could be safer than the advance of large sums to Ireland, if, at the same time, measures were adopted to advance the general condition of the country. He thought a loan should be resorted to, be meet the difficulty, and its ultimate repayment would be obtained from the revenues of Ireland without additional taxation, if the condition of the country was improved. There was a mistake prevailing with regard to the customs duties in Ireland. The entire sum received from Ireland was 12,000,0001. out of 50,000,000/. of the imperial revenue. This was not because the Irish people were taxed lass au those items, but because they were too poor to cams* taxed articles. The customs duties, stamps, and post-office, mid to the revenue in England was 29,11110,0001., while in Ireland it was 3,000,0001., the relative population being 8,001,000 and 18,000,000. Why was the product in Ireland only one-ninth ? The Irish did not refrain from using arti cles subject to customs duties, or stamps, or from writing letters, merely to spite the English people, but they were too poor to do so. If their condition was elevated, the revenue would rise to 12,000,0001., without any additional taxation. The excise in England pro duced 10,000,0001., the rates being the same as in Ireland, whereas in that country it only pro duced 1,700,0001. The reason was the same—poverty. ,If the Irish consumed articles subject to excise duty in the same proportion as was done in England, it would produce 4,700,000 1 ., being 3,100,0001. additional, which added to 9,000,0001. customs duties, would give to the government as a reward for doing their duty to Ireland, an addition of 12,000,0001. to the general revenue, besides giving her the capability of bearing the income-tax, the lend-tax, and as sessed taxes. There were means of raising the people to the same prosperity as those of England, and providing a large expenditure without taking one shilling of English money. When speaking of loans to Ireland, one consideration seemed to have escaped hon. gentlemen; that Ireland got no credit in the public accounts for part of the revenue paid by her. He alluded to the item of crown lands, in which was included 60,0001. or 70,0001. of -Irak .quit -rents and crown-rents for which no credit was givens On manufactures, too, which were sent from England, the duty was really paid in Ireland to an amount estimated by the late Lord Congleton at 3:10,0001. ; add to this 60,0081. ass 70,000/ for crown rents, and Ireland might claim 400,01101. of any monies advanced to her. It was poverty alone which prevented the consumption of taxed articles in Ireland. With equal rates, she only paid 4,500,0001., while England was able to pay 38,000,0001. or 39,000,0001. ; but if she wave raised to the same standard of comfort she would pep 17,000,0001. or 18 , 000 , 000 !. indeed of 4,000,0001. He his tiered that a loan charged on the security of the Irish reve nues would not be thrown away, if they did their duty te that country and themselves, without tonsulting the in terests of party or faction, without building their hopes on divisions in Ireland, and governing one perry by means of another, but applied themselves to the noble task of raising her from a mendicant province to a happy sister nation. A large portion of the people of Ireland had solved that problem for thenuelees, and thought it could not be done by this parliament. If they did not devise means to give a stimulus to the capital of Ireland, the money poured into that country would pass through it like water, and leave no benefit although it would prove a great loss to England. By taking away her resident parliament, the best customers of Ireland were removed, and her manu factures, the best source of employment, destroyed. They implored the English parliament to consider these things in time. Mr. Fox, in 1800, denounced " the whole scheme of the Union as ba sed upon the false and abominable presumption, that they could legislate better for the Irish than the Irish could legislate for themselves." The day of retribution for that " false and abominable presumption" was now at hand. At this time, forty-six years after they Lad perpetrated this great injustice, an echo was found in this country to the voice of Irish discontent. That eche would swell until at last repeal was granted. Let them hasten to grant it. Those who demanded it were actuated by no paltry sectarian or provincial spirit. They desired repeal as an act of justice towards Ireland, but they equally desired it because they believed that the permanence, the strength, and the prosperity of this empire would be best promoted by the restoration of the Irish parliament. Captain COREY declared his desire to consider this and all other measures referable to Ireland free from all party or political hist., and with a single view to the interests of the nation. lie thought the extension of the railway system would be productive of good to Ireland, but he could not approve of the particular measure now brought for ward, or consider it as well adapted for the first object it was designed to effect—namely, the relief of the existing distress- Sir W. CLAY said he should vote against this bill, be cause he was disposed to think that the House of Commons stepped out of its place when it suggested expenditure to the ministers of the crown. The duty of that house was rather to check and control the expenditure than to seek its augmentation. He felt doubtful also as to the miens of raising this money to lend at 34 per cent., when the market rate of interest was so much higher. But, whilst he con demned the bill on these grounds, he must candidly soy that he thought the subject itself was well worthy the most attentive consideration of the house, and that he could not at all concur in many of theobjectiona which had been urged =the gooiest proposition. It had been slid by some a immure was opposed to the fiat principles of poli tical steamily. But the same argument might be urged spirt the extension amiantus to any branch of industry. It would have especial weight with reference to some of the measures which the government had recently brought under consideration ; and for his own part he thought an advance of mosey to well selected lines of railway would, on the whole, he lees opposed to the principles of political economy thin the expenditure of money in many of the modes proposed by thegovernment (Hear.) But then, it was said, the effect 1 this measure would be to divert capital from its ordinary channel. Now, he should not object to see capital diverted from employment in England to employment in Ireland. That which was wanted in England was not capital but Ili=t for pital ; the exact convene held good in m" ' Oh ! ca but," said some, "the tendency of this Mllll~l is to encourage speculation." Now, be could not agree In thinking it was a sufficient reason against any line of patsy otherwise desirable, that one of its effects would be to esemunie speculation., The same abjection, if it held good at al, e mild be good against every financial alteration ever intenduriel; fur them was no change of that sort which did not More pe less cucourage opeciihition on the port of those who weraltenceroed. But, then, his right hon. friend, the Chaniellor of the Exchequer, doubted the sufficiency of the security. Oa this point, be (Sir W. Clay) must say, that all, he bad ever heard, led him to think that this was an un founded objection, and that well-selected lines in Ireland, would not only afford good security, hut good remunerative prolate, (Hear, hear.) Having noticed oricity theo: objec tions, he would ask them to look, on the other hand, at the enormous advantages which the extension of railways to Ire land would secure. Coupled with those advantages, the. question of immediate relief was nothing. It was tba future of Ireland that appalled him. (Hear, hear.) All England was willing to assist in endeavouring to meet the present ca lamity ; but how to meet the future was a question of fur greater difficulty. For the future they had a great social system to build up, the very foundation of which was as yet unleid. Ireland, as a country, was in the moat elementary state of human society. What they heard of the condition of the people of Ireland led them to so pace they were more like North American Indians, than like a civilised commu nity. Each man in Ireland only raised enough to support himself, and that of the worst description of human food. It was our duty now to endeavour to alter this condition of the people ; to endeavour to bring them round to a sound rate of society in which cspital and labour should each take their allotted part. That state of society could only be in duced by affording safety for the capital invested, whether it was in the development of the agriculture, the com mercial, or the mineral resources of the nation, or of the Illsheries upon her coast. It was his (Sir W. Clay'.) belief that one of the best and surest modes of effecting this ob ject was, by the formation of railways, and that the govern ment might do more, by their extension to open out the national resources and encourage the application of capital to Ireland, than by any other means he could conceive. On these grounds he thought it would be well if her Majesty's government would take into their consideration some modified plan for the appropriation of some small part of the public money to the extension of this system. Mr. SHAW said he did not intend to enter into any general details respecting the measure before the house, but ha was anxious to state the reasons en which he would give his vote on the present occasion. His feslings would lead him to vote one way, but his reason and judgment forced him to vote the other. In all the affairs of life, political as well as other, they must not lose sight of the practical conse quences of their actions. They had been informed by the noble lord opposite (Lord John Russell) that the fate of the government depended on the success of the present measure ; and they had heard the reply of his noble friend the member for Lynn, that he was prepared for the reepon sibility thatmight devolve upon him. But when he (Mr. Shaw) saw the disjointed and disabled state of political parties, and that the financial and general aspect of public affairs was such u might fill the firmest mind with anxious cares ; but above all, looking to the present calamitous condition of Ire hind, he confessed he could not take upon himself the respon sibility of being a party to any vote which, at such a crisis, might overturn the government, or attempt to lona a new one in the present condition of public affairs. (Hear.) For these reasons, he would vote, though reluctantly, against the second reading. (Hear, hear.) Sir W. MOLES WORTH said, it seemed to be the opinion of the hon. member for Kilkenny and most of the Irish members, that money should be expended and spent without stint in Ireland for the relief of the distress in that country. He said this without meaning anything disrespectful towards the members from Ireland, for he sincerely pitied them (Hear, hear.) Having witnessed in their own country Peened , of suffering which no language could express or ima gination conceive, it was not to be wondered at if they were carried away by their feelings and readily adopted every measure that might be proposed in the form of a remedy. But it was the duty of English members to exercise a wise and calm judgment. (Cheers.) The people el England were rady to make every sacrifice to save the people of Ireland from perishing by stn Trion, but having done that,they would expect that measures should be devised in order to prevent the recurrence of a similar calamity. (Hear, hear, hear.) He did not think the measure proposed by the noble lord opposite, would accomplish the objects which he had in view. The parties who would be really benefited by the measure were the landlords, the holders of shares, and the mortgagees. He was of opinion that, before they discussed the question of giving money to Ireland for the benefit of Irish landlords and Irish share holders, they ought to pus an efficient poor-law for that country. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DISRAELI said he would not have entered into any topics not immediately connected with the question before the house, were it not for the short and impressive speech of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Shaw). After thatspeech the house would not think it impertinent in him if he alluded to the position in which they etooL The right hon. gentle man, with a frankness and good feeling which were creditable to him, said that contrary to his economical convictions he would give his vote against the second readino of the bill, because the fate of the government depended on its rejection. He could easily understand why part connexions might not only induce but authorise one indi vidual member to vote against a measura which he con sidered in the abstract beneficial t . his country—if he thought it was merely an instrument by which an ambitious party might ride into power. But that was not the position of his right hon. friend. His right hon. friend was, and he hoped he would still remain, with those who now, fighting against odds, found themselves, most unexpectedly on their parts, opposed to the existing government. What were the circumstances which led them into that position? The present measure suggested itself to his noble friend some time ago us one which, after being well and maturely digested, he considered would be peculiarly eluded to the circumstances of Ireland. The Queen's speech directed their attention to measures for the relief of Deland. His noble friend came down on the first day of the session to propose his measure, but seeing that the government were prepared with certain measures also, his noble friend de dined to run the chance of appearing to oppose the governmeat, whine general policy he was inclined to support, and therefore he did not bring his measure for ward on that occasion. When the government brought forward their measures for the relief to Ireland his noble friend did not give the least intication of hostility, though there was encouragement from more thin one section to view the measures in a captious spirit. They considered the cir cumstances in which the noble lord succeeded to power, and the unexampled emergency which he was called on to con. trol, and they therefore thought it would be an un worthy part to criticise in a petty spirit the conduct of the government. (Hear, hear.) His noble friend having supported the government mea sures, and believing that the measure which he had under his own consideration would be of great importance and benefit to Ireland ; he brought it forward not in as anta gonistic spirit, hut in a spirit ancillary to the measures of the government. His noble friend told the government, and his were not words of lip rhetoric for the purpose of in fluencing a superficial public opinion, for in private as in public he expressed his sincere convictions on the subject —he thought that his proposition would have been received in a friendly spirit by the government, and the noble lord, when he first spoke on the subject, did not indicate that the existence of bin government would depend on its passing or not, but if that was his intention he ought to have told his noble friend that it was a measure which the government could not accept, and that he would divest himself of the responsibilities of office if it was carried. (Hear, hear.) For all that happened afterwards, therefore, the noble lord was responsible and not his noble friend, and his noble friend ought not now to be brought forward as a person of rampant ambition, who wished to upset the gnvernment. (Hier, hear.) His noble friend had done nothing but what a man of honour and spirit must have felt himself obliged to do after the bill had been al lowed by the government to be introduced and read a first time. (Hear, hear.) His right hon. friend said he did not think there was any probability of a vote adverse to the go vernment onthe preeent occasion. He (Mr. Disracli)saw per .oll9 on both side., of the house wbocame into parliament about the time that he hi mselfentered it. At that time they were told that the government of the day would not last because they were going nut on an Irish question, but they did not go out on as Irish question. Two years after that the leader of the mint powerfol party in opposition that ever existed in this country succeeded to office, but in three days he resigned, announcing that Ireland was his great difficulty. (Hear.) The government which suceeded were in a mino rity in that house as regarded England, and though they were not able to govern England, which generally governed itself, he confessed they seemed to be the only party who were able to govern Ireland. (Hear, hear.) But the Irish question before them was not the Irish ques tion of 10 yeas! ago. (lioar, hear.) The question then was how Ireland was to be governed, the question was now how Ireland was to be fed. (Hear.) He thought it would be well before entering into a discussion of the merits of his noble Mend's project, to bring clearly before the mind the social condition of the country to which his measure was to be applied. They were not now to discuss whether political franchise should be increased or diminished, whe ther municipal privileges were to be sustained or abolished, but if when they were discussing these subjects, they found that all this time they were discussing the state of a country where the population was the densest of any coun try in the world—where the population as regarded the arable area was denser even than that of China ; if they also found that the population subsisted solely on the land, and that the most intense poverty existed amongst that dense population--that the circulating medium averaged only 1/. or 30s. per head, while in sterile Scotland, it averaged 161. per head, and if they were aware of all these things, he thought they should hare paused before , they spent so much time in discussing what the number of members of parliament ought to be, what the number of qualifications of electors ought to be, and what the number of mayors and aldermen pught to be, while the social condition of the country was in such a state. (Hear.) lie believed that throughout the country there was but one opinion, that it was a mere hallucination to imagine that any political panacea could cure the griefs of Ireland. The noble lord said, the other night, that the present couditioa of Ire land presented a famine of the 13th century with a popula tion of the 19th. The image was picturesque, but fallacious. The nearer parallel would be, with a famine in a country under her Majesty's sway—with a country whose popule,- lion rivalled in its density theta Ireland, with India at a sea son when her rice crop had failed. As to the cause of all this misery, it did not at all do fur hon. gentlemen oppo site quip tly to assign it to • dispensation of Providence, by way of excusing their own Inches no, the calamity had been foretold long since, by men whose opinions were enti tled to the greatest weight ; Lord Wellesley had distinctly progeoeticated the gradual deterioration of the potato crop to the final subsidence of the eaeulent into a pernicious lumper. Mr. Drummond , too, had clearly foreseen and foretold the coming event, hut no measures had been triton to meet the contingent evil. The government, indeed, had its m easures, and, in themselves, these measures had his arum support ; but they did not meet the actual pres. sure; they did not secure the employment and the suste nance which the Irish people instantly required to keep them from darvation, they did not sow the seeds of that speedy renovation which all admitted to be so essential, and it was, therefore, that he eupportsei, also, the measure of his noble friend, which did secure these objects. (Hear.) He would advert, in the first place, to what that measure would do in finding employment for the poor. His noble friend's most carefully prepared estimate was, that, at the very fewest, 110,000 able-bodied labourers would be employed by bin scheme, represeuting a population of hail a milion. This, indeed, was manifestly, by no means, the entire body of the distresaed population; but, surely, if half a million of per sons could be placed above destitution, it would be a vast alleviation of the existing pressure on the government, and on the reeources of this country. (Hear.) The mea sure of his noble friend had been met by, he would not say able, but by extremely seams oppo Non. The first ohjec dem raised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who cora emmeed the fight, was an objectien to that which appeared on the hark of the bill; the right hon. gent. objected tileat on the back of the bill, beside the name of the noble member for Stamford, there were the names of the hon. member for Sunderland, who was considered a great authority on rail. ways, and of the hon. member for Westmoreland, who was known to be one of the greatest manufacturers of iruu in the country. The right honourable gentleman. in deed, did not impute corrupt motives to these gen. tlemen ; but be mid that no doubt their pecu:iar occupation. might have hod the effect of giving a bias to their judgment,. He would admit that perhaps these gentlemen might have I viewed the case placed under their consideration in a certain degree of connection with their engrossing idea; but he would remind the right hon. gentlemen that this objection, so far as it was an objection, might be applicable to Win; political as well as to persons individual, and, therefore, when he found three Chancellors of the Exchequer rising one after another with the tame objection to the same measure, he was disposed, after the example of the right hon. gentleman, to view their financial opposition with some jealousy. (A laugh.) There was the right hon. member for Falmouth had come forward in the most violent spirit, with all the sympathetic La n tlie ni tic eni r r iVsce ,, N n e ce wu oLot t h h c a i t al he life, to had m e n ; in. moat to escalatory speech, but that it was no reply to the unanswer. able speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The right hon. gentleman's speech might have been in one way Wk. answerable, but it was also untrue. The right bon. gentle man's objections wets based on two pi ineiparpoints, first, he said that the amount of capital expected by the noble member for Lynn to be expended, would be by no moans so great as was announced by the noble lord, and secondly, which was the same thing in other words, that the extentof labour employed would be by no means so great. The right hon. gentleman's speech on the occasion was a most hold and dashing one— quite courageous enough, in fact, for a secretary at war, or a paymaster of the forces — (a laugh)--but it was not. equally characterised by solid weight. The right hon.. gent. stated, in the most positive and off-hand manner, that the calculations of the noble member for Lynn were all wrong—were wild fallacies; and that the proportion of capital actually expended on the labour of railway construc tion was twenty-five per cent., but the right hon. gent. and not condescended to give any fact, or any evidence, or any data for hie so very succinct and unhesitating objection. " You are all wrong on the other ride," said tke right hon. gent.; "you know nothing about the matter: I tell you that there are twenty-five per cent. of the capital expended in actual labour, and I tell you that at the utmost' 10001. per mile will employ only forty-five men." Than spoke the oracle, butthis was a subjectwhich the public would not consider settled by the ipse of any man, even by that of the right hon. gentleman and even though an ex-Chan cellor of theEzehequer went bail for the accuracy of his pee dteessor, and not even though another ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer said ditto to both. Now he (Mr. Disraeli) held in his hand, as to thin matter of the proportion of capital I expended in labour on railways, an analysis of the awns expended upon some of the greatest of the existing railways, an analysis drawn up front multifarious documents by his friend Mr. Laing, whose name would at once be a guarantee, at all events, of the most zealous care and the utmost good faith. (lit or. hear.) The analysis exhibited the description of expenditure on a dear line and on a cheap line in England, on the Belgium lines, and on the Paris and Rouen line. The total expenditure per mile on the London and Bit= line, the dearest line, perhaps, ever conetructedin wa11 , 49,6•30/., and of ha, in items unconnected with labour I. parliamentary expenses, engineering, directions, land come pensation, 6:e., there had been spent 17 per cent ; on items connected with skilled labour, 21 per cent. ; and on items et common unskilled labour, such as earth-works, stations, ea-, 62 per cent. (Hear.) This was a dear line; now for • cheap line. The Orand Junction line had been constructed at a cost of 21,0001. per mile ; he would not go through the items, but state the fact, that of this outlay 57 per cent. had been expended on common or un skilled labour; on the Belgian railways, the total expenditure per mile had been 16,130/. ; of this the proportion paid for common labour was 4.1 per cent. ' Well, then, the eon of the Park and Rouen Railway was 22,500/. per mile, out of which 12,5701., or 66 per cent., was 'petit on labour, showing an average on the whole of these railways in England, France, and Belgium, of 57 per cent expended in common labour,-11though perhaps he ought to observe that in the unskilled labour, which was 26 per cent., coach-builders and one or two other descriptions et artisans were included. If they took the Irish railways at 16,0001. per mile, and allowed 57 per cent., that would make 9,1201. per mile, which, expended in four years, would Rival foi each mile 2,2801. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said that for every 1,000/. per mile 45 men were employed, therefore, according to the calculation of 2,2801. per mile, 102 men must be employed, and that would make on 1,500 miles of railroad upwards of 150,000 men, and reckoning in accordance with the calculation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that each man supported five persene, the number which would thus be maintained would be 765,0(0 instead of 500,000, the present number maintained by the public works. (Hear, hear.) It appeared from one of the blue books, according to the statement of the Lind Mayor of Dublin, that 40,000 men were employed on railroads in October, 1846; and there being then only 300 miles of railway in progress of being . made, it would follow, that on 1,400 mile. 200,000 men would be required. ( Hear, hear.) On the Carlow branch of the South Western Railway 183 men per mile were em ployed : ei much for the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that only 25 per cent. of the capital would be employed in labour. According to the estimates founded on the English, French, ands lgian railway*, there would not be lees than 3,ooo,employed. He had a document, dated Feb.B, 1847, from ones e ;:ron to contractors of railroads in Ireland—Mr. Henning which endeavoured to refute two objections made to his noble friend's measure. The first was that if railways were un dertaken on a large scale English "navies" would be em ployed. The hon. gentleman proceeded to read the letter, the purport of which was, that the Irish labourers were easily instructed in the work necessary for making railways, and the men employed by the writer were almost exclusively Irish. In forming a long tunnel through basalt rock, on the London derry and Enniskillen line, Mr. Henning had found after a little instruction, that Irishmen were capable of doing the work, and he had only retained three Englishmen on it. The writer proceeded to state, that the number of English employed by him did not exceed two-and.a-half per cent. The second objection (said the bon. gentleman) raised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was, that the counties through which the railways passed were not the most distressed : he then proceeded to read other parts of the letter, to show that where railways hod been constructed in districts where labour was not so easily obtained, men came from Connaught and the western coast to perform the work; and thus he inferred that the entire community would he benefited by the adoption of the measure of the noble lord the member for Lynn. But then (continued the hon. member) he was told that the " nevi gator " was a gay Lothario, who spent his money on him self, and leR his family, if he had any, unprovided for ; it was said, in fact, that he did not generally marr'.and there fore his labour would only support himself. Why he had received a letter but an hour before from Sir Haney Bruce, who stated that, so far from the men employed on railways being unmarried, many of them in his district had families of from eight to ten children. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) So much for those English navigators who were to go over and engross the whole of Irish railway labour. Why, they were all Irishmen, who had married when they were boys, and had each families of boys. (" Hear," and a laugh.) Sir Harvey Bruce said, further, that three children were considered n very small family that eight or ten were nearer the mark ; and that the labourers in his neighbour hood who had formerly received but 10d. a day were now earning 3s. To show also how cheap land could be purchased he further stated that the railway went nine miles through his estate, and that the land had only cost 6001. a mile. He thought that that was ' a decisive answer to some of the argument. which had been adduced. (Hear, hear.) But it was impossible to escape these Chancellors of the Exchequer. They found fault with his noble friend for having associated with him in his plan the hon. member for Sunderland. If he had not consulted that hon. member, what would then have been the triumphant argument? It w mid have been said, "You have • practical man in your partg, the president over forty five millions of capital, and he will have nothing to do with your plan." That was what would have been said. (Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer had mid that as unskilled labour was never employed on railways, there would be no relief in this plan for the poor of Ireland, but it appeared from the documents he had read, that nothing else but unskilled labour win employed. Ile would not notice what had been said about money lent which had not been repaid—he would leave that topic to the champions of repeal.; but when a plan was proposed calculated to revolutionise the whole social character of a country, was he to be met with the information that the money lent to some corrupt corpora tion had never been returned? Let them have statesmanlike arguments end:correct data on this question; let it I.e argued on its merits, but let them not be told of the broad streets of Cork, when they were proposing a broad gauge for all Ire land. (Cheers.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer had in effect told them that at beat their p'.an would make only heifer Ireland rich. Half of Ireland rich! Ile would be quite satisfied with that. (Cheers.) They were a very young party, but they had already shaken a government to as centre, and if in addition they succeeded in making half of Ireland rich, he thought they would have dose very well for one feriae. (Cheers god laughter.) He should like to know what body of men, ministen that were, or minim tees that had been, had ever succeeded in making half .of behead rich! (Hear, and cheene Ile now came to another Chet:metier of the Exchequer, who represented , the principle of naieintefference with private enterprise. That right hon. gentleman had painted the danger of state interference when there were more than umel chums on the national finances. He (Mr. Disraeli) should deal with these arguments, not with abstract reasoning, but with facts. Pre asedente had be. n drawn from the cases of France and !Belgium, and warnings had been thence deduced against ;contrecting state loam for railways. Let teem recall for a moment the financial state of Belgium. In 1810 Belgian determined to create railways by a grant from the ,rata ; and the state granted, in round number s nix minima' for the purpose. Of that suns Ina millions seven hundred thousand pounds were raiseil at once by way of loan, and he a state, the annual revenue of which was only 3,300,000 t (Hear, hear.) That sum was rinsed at 5 per cent., costing the country in all 51. Its, &I. per cent. Two years after, in 1842, Belgium raised ita second loan of one million. And here he would ask if the first loan had depreciated the nis tinsel credit in the market ? The second loan was raised at 41. 175. 411. per cent. (Loud cries of " Hear. hear.") Ho new came 'o France. He remembered being in France, in 1e42--a critical time, when there was a floating debt of seven. teen millions in consequence of the fortifications lof Paris. It was under these circumstances that the ministry proposed to the chamber that nineteen millions should be granted the the construction of railways. The Pam was raieed, eighteen millions by loan. and one million by royal bends, equivalent to our * Exchequer bills. What was the effect of this upon the French finances ? In 1841 the pro ceeds of !ndirect taxation in France were 23,800,0001. an d in 181(4 they had increased to 32,000,000 1 . or 33 ,000,0001. , (Hear, hear.) That was in consequence of the spur which the construction of reamed' had giren to the national indus try. But then it had been said that the French and Belgian governments had taken care of the people by regula. tine the fares and charges, and that no such power existed in Ireland. Now, he had in his hand the French and Belgian tariffs, and also the charges in Ireland. Ile found that the French fares were—first class 1.66, to the Ulster 1 . 44; second claw, 1 . 25 to 1* on the Dublin and Drogheda, and 96 on the Ulster; the third clam, 92 on the French to 94 on the Ulster, and *56 on the Drogheda. It appeared then, that at this moment the fares were lower in Ireland than in France. (Hear, hear, hear.) Ile next Came to that magnificent peroration of the unanswerable speech, in which it was asserted that his noble friend's plan would employ only twenty-five men per mile. 'there was at present a gentleman going about London—he was a scientific gentleman in the greatest distress, who stated himself to he the anonymous individual who go ve the informa tion on this matter to the right hou. gentleman. (Laughter.) He was in great distress in consequence of what had been stated by the Chancellor of the Lschequer ' and though he wished well to the present government, he did not wish to be brought forward in such a way, an he knew the state most to lie the most enormous error that ever was brought forward. He paid that he did tell the Chancellor of the Exchequer that twenty-five men would be employed, but he meant permanently employed. (Laughter.) Why suppose that only ten men were employed, would not it be of benefit. Ile added that his noble friend, the member for Lynn, understood his caw, and that be clearly showed that 15 men would be employed, and that the Chancellor of the Exchequer came down to save the go. erament, and to ruin Ireland, by telling theta that only 2.5 men would have temporary employment. He would now come to the third Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Goulboure), who would, under no circumstances whatever, interfere with private enterprise. His two first points lie would not touch, as they were unimportant, and would waste the time of the house ; but his third point was, that iu Ireland they should net interfere with private enterprise. lie thought it im portant to come to some clear understanding on this fires: and social position that the hon gentleman had taken. One eiscumetance was quite clear, that every night they haul! statesmen, either the present or the late advisers of the crown, denouncing interference with private enterprise, and every night supporting measures that did interfere with it. (Hear.) If they could, early or late, understand that question, it would throw a great light on the main subject, and would lead to a emper dogma. lie admitted the abstrue principle, which was not much, and ke could easily under stand why interference with private enterprise was to bo deprecated. When they said that they meant that they believed that in a country like England commercial prin ciples ought to control all circumstances of an enterprising nature. There could be no better principle in England then that commercial principles should control commercial enter prise. When they were going to construct railroads in this country they calculeted the cost and the profit. The enterprising capitalist knew the parlia mentary expenses, the cost of land, timber, and iron. He calculated the rates of labour, and then he undertook his work. All he had to do was to calculate the cost and the profit. Commercial principles dealt merely with commercial enterprise. He could not understand why they should inter fere with those only which they arc meant to control. If a man worked a railroad in Ireland, he had not only to cal culate the cost of land, but to buy that which was a compli rated tenure, and which often produced public rancour, hatred, and enmity. He has to engage labourers who lived casually, and he knew that if by any unfor tunate occurrence that casual supply were lost, the labourers of the country would be • turbulent popula tion. He knew that he was in a country where religious animosity was carried to such a height that feelings of the greatest hatred were engendered. He knew that when he commenced threatening notices would be served on his steward, and that he would run the risk of being shot from behind a hedge. Commercial principles did not extend to Ireland, because the circumstances to be controlled were not commercial. From whatever cause this state of things arose, whether from Proteetant or Popish ascendancy, one thing was quite certain which gentleman on both aides were only too eager to tell them that Ireland was mis governed. But what had misgoverned Ireland ? The state; and, therefore, the state was responsible for these circum stance,. ; and it had the power, and ought to interpose that political principle which ought in this cave to interfere with Ind join the commercial principle. He would defy them to Interfere with commercial enterprise in Ireland, because there was none. They hal brought it to that state. To prove this argument, the Chancel lor of the Exchequer would he his beet witness. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said that all the capitalists In Ireland were English. That fact proved that their un dertakings were, in a commercial sense, profitable—l hear). — but the reason why they did not proceed with them wu, that they were controlled by political circumstances. (Hear) If they rested on private enterprise in Ireland, that country would remain as she now was, three centuries behind her time. The measure of his noble friend would supply to Ireland that which they believed private enterprise could not supply. It had been said that it was a partial measure, but the course of the debate showed that it was advantageous to Ireland to have railways. It was clear that in Ireland there were pit nty of coal mines, and if there were railroads established through counties where coal mines 'lifted, five years could not elapse without their being worked. Was not fuel as good as food to the people of Ire and? They could easily shove that the opera' ion of rail ways would create a new trade, would open new markets, would establish now residences for men of ell kinds, would give ar. inteulse to fleheries which no one could coneeinn and wouid give a new character and a new face to Ireland. He recollected that a member of that house (alluding to Sir J. Yorke), some time before he hail the honour of sitting in it, expressed a Mich that Ireland eves for three days under water for its own benefit; but, without the ptenful results of that diluvian process, they wished to give a new ebaraetee and a new tone to the people of Ireland in the w in which they lived. He felt persuaded that Ultimately the measure would he eureereful. (Hear.) He could honour three hon. members who =this question sacrificed conviction to party, but then they must be English members. (Hear, hear.) It was not a case in which an Ireh member should refuse his sanction tea measure, as compared with which no political agitator land he did not use the word in an offensive sense, for he admitted the value of political agitation, when properly directed), no politician bad ever ventured to propose any one half so comprehensive, or one quarter so practical. And whatever might be its fate, those who proposed it would be, at all events, exempt from the bitterness of personal mortification, for it was a measure which, though they might fail in carrying, no one could say was matured in a spirit of faction, or by the calculating craft of scheming ambition--a measure which, if suceeerful, would have effected a greet object and served a great muse—a measure which did not aim to injure a government, but did aspire to benefit' great nation. (Hear, hear.) On the motion of Mr. B. 0+1111n,,, she debate woe then adjourned, and the house rose at half-pest twelve o'clock. lIONDURAS.—We have received the Gazette and Observer of Sth December, which announces the result d the new trial in the case of Lieut. Connell and Mr. Symons, a piece of intelligence unaccountably passed over in the news of later date which we received some time ago aiu NewYerk. It is with sincere pleasure that we announce the exoneration of these gentlemen from the charge brought against them. The court consisted of his Honour Chief Justice Temple, and the Honourables James Al'Donald and John Young, judges. A bill was found by the grand jun against Adolphus Frederick Connell for manslaeghter, aided and anetted by Henry Symons. A petty jury being swore the prisoners wore placed at the bar: the lion. W. F. Lewis, Queen's Counsel, appeared for the prosecution ; John B. Henderson, Hsu., for the defence. The evid,•nee is not reported in the Obeervertrid Gazette. At an early hour in the evening the ease mini esbmitted to the jury, who after an absence of about Yana-hour rendered a verdict of Not Guilty. Mesas. Ceasielitud Symons were immediately set at liberty, and 1146800 M house amid the congratulations of their friends. • GERMANY. —ITEIEENA. The Aulic Chancery at Vienna has mabiklesda decree which subjects the hooneeops thic doctors to • mere severe control. Formerly they were allowed to prepare their own medicines ; they are in halite obliged to procure their ingredients and medicaments frost the apothecaries. BRESLAr.—CHARITY AND INTOLERANCE.—H was but lately that the prince archbishop of Breslau deelaml from the pulpit that sincere and conscientious Profanes* could be saved es well as Catholic., The mine opinion, which is shared by many Catholic dirinei, was preached hoot the pulpit by one of the canons of Bamberg (Bavaria), IL Brener, and. he has been dhmissed by the archbishop in oonsxcsenee. HANOVER.— GOTTINGEN. HEMS° POETIT FORIIIDDZN.—A. German poet, named Holtei, intended lately to give rime dramatic readings here ; hut was pre vented by the police on the ground that such amuse ments were improper at a time of general distress..." To help the poverty of others by starring one mare poor poet. is So original idea.—Brroser POLAN D.—Private letters from Warsaw state that all the Polish coin in circulation is to be drawn in, sad Russian money issued instead, and that the government t Poland had intended Mining an ordonnance that no other min except that of Russia or Pnamia,would be received utthe pub lic offices; but that, on a representation of the commeraid houses, the project has been deferred until all the Polish Will is drawn in. The sense letters state that any person in Russia or Poland having in his possession the works of Miekesries. is liable to be exiled to Siberia, with confiscation of all hie property. r 1