The Express. — London, England, 1851-05-07 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 7, 1851. I'ARL!"... I IENT. • Hotg.;; Ulf LORDS.—TUESDAY, MAT 6. the Loa° Cs NCRLI. I III took his seat at flee o'clock. PETITIONS PRESENTED. PAPAL Anoaxasiox.—Lly the Duke of ARGYLE, from about LOU places in Scotland. representing the opinions of aearly 100,000 persons. against papal sigression. The petition from Glasgow wrs signed by 56,000 persons, 2,000 of whom were members of the Royal Exchange. These petitions were not got up at public meetings, and were an emphatic demonstration of public opinion, proving how in eorreet we-e the statement, of those who represented that the feeling of the people of Scotland on this subject was not as strong ma in other parts of the kingdom. Aloe by Lord FEVERSHAM, from places in Yorkshire and Essex, and Earl TALBOT, from York and other places, to the some effect. REGISTRATION OF ASSURANCES BILL. Lord STANLEY, on presenting a petition praying for certain modifications in the bill before it should he passed, admitted that he did not fully concur in the opinion ex presso' by the petitioners, but wished the arguments they adduced to be laid before the select committee to whom the bill had been referred for amendment. Lord C.tAIPBELL having briefly defended the bill, the petition was ordered to lie on the table. RETIREMENT OF NAVAL OFFICERS. sons who were known all Iran_ _Po doe* be obliged, before.. leaving the wo had the effect pen returned. than in reality. the poor law cruelty on diminution dered the place in Karma, Ireland in What he et piano woo only td. In high as 19. 9d. vat lle PrePortiow present proposition. property which was liable te veto eheuld_por the Wks in infant proportions. seemed to IMOD at unjust than that a coal elf a% which did not proem Me Ito proprietor more than two lered pounds • yaw, should he obliged to pay the poor rate, whilst an teen Milne, in its neighbourhood, which produced 10,0001. a yew was not subject to the rate. Yet such was the state Was law. From Mho return !which he had before him, it that there were 388 unions assessed under V rei ils the pound, and 461 over that amount. The strik ing of an *verso would show that a greater num ber would be benefited than injured by the plan which he proposed. Though he had taken Is. 6d. as the maxi mum, he did not believe the rate need be kept at that amount ; he thought a general rate of fourpence or livepence would be sufficient. In 184.5 the noble lord now at the head of the government proposed • resolution declaring that the freedom of industry would be promoted by • careful revi sion of the law of parochial settlement, which then pre vailed in England and Wales. He was happy to find such an authority in favour of • change in the system. In 1843 the mining property paying income tax amounted to 1,030,70 W. • the greater portion of which contributed ego thing to the pour. In 1817 the property assessed to the ted, in round figures, to 67,000,000 C, while C e l r la i=ma the mount was 83,000,0001. In Scotland, where =I property wan rated to the poor, the difference be he property assessed to the poor-rate and the pro- Inasses.ed the income tax was only 116,0001., t side of the latter. They all knew that the property messed to the poor in this country was greatly under waned. Considering the great number of extra-parochial ellegwhich the present law did not reach, he had no a t that, if all property were made liable, the amount levied would almost equal that produced by the property tax. Of coulee there would be great objection among a large class of individuals to any interference with an old system, however unjustly it might operate ; but he trusted 1 1 the days were come when everyone would consider that all just relief should be afforded to the only class which was allowed on all hands to he suffering distress. He believed ' that his plan, if carried out, would in the end benefit not only the agricultural interest, but all classes who' were subject to the payment of poor rat e s. ' LH= hear.) he motion which he had to make was as : That to alleviate • portion of the burthens from which the agricultural interest is at present suffering, *neigh the payment of parochial poor-rates, varying la many instances from Gs., Is., Bs., 95., to 13s. 101. in the pound, it will be necessary to substitute an equalised paw* rate iu England and Wales, not exceeding Is. IL is the pound, and subject to local gore rnment." The SPEAK tilt 13111 the hon. member must propane Lis motion in a different form. Ile could not make a motion mating to the tare: of the country exelit when the how* was in committee. Mr. ORAN'ILEY BERKELEY begged then to move that the house should resolve itself into eintunittee on that day week. Captain HARRIS seconded the motion. Mr. 11.1.1,4 ES said he should not at present argue the ijuettiuns of settlement and the assessment of personal pro perty, which were of sufficient importance to merit a dis time diseussion, hut should confine himself to the resolve I (ion, which eought tr affirm the expediency of maintaining the destitute pour by means of a national rate. A na. l tional raw, as he showed, had not hitherto met with any favour in that house ; even in the the me...km upon the burdens borne by the laud, a national rate bad never been suggested as an expe dient to relieve the agricultural classes. A union rate, which would be raised within a certain area and expende d within that area, had been repudiated by Mr. Berkeley, who would commit the grim injustice of raising rates of 2d. wed IL in the pound to ls. fel., and of confounding lated with well-administered purifier, so that the economy of the one would he unrewarded, and the extravagance of the other escape any penalty. Mr. Baines dwelt upon the evils which, he contended, would he the certain results of the - sad scheme, which - gallons; 1'11863 it was % 116 ,07dgallims; is 1846 it rose from Tahoe" causes to the maroons amount of 1,418,000 gallons, and though it had since fallen, as compared with that year of extraordinary demand, it amounted last year to 828,000 gallons —a very considerable increase on the average of 300,000 gallons, at which it stood eight or ten years ago. But let hon. gentle men inquire whether the decrease since 1816 had not arisen from an increase in the consumption in England of British spirits of other than Irish manufacture. There could be no ground for saying that Scotland was placed in • more favor able position than Ireland, yet he found that while the quantity of Irish spirits imported into England had fallen off the import from Scotland had increased since 1816 from 1,900,000 to 2,600,000, which more than compensated for the decrease in Irish spirits. The total import of Irish and , Scotch spirits had increased from 1812 from 1,900,000 to' ' 3,400,000, which was the quantity imported last year. But it was said that colonial spirits, at the low duty, was success fully opposing the British spirits in the home markets, cops eially in Scotland. In 1841, when runs was at the 10s. duty, the consumption of Scotch spirits in Scotland was 5,980,000 gallons ; in 1850, when they had the competition of rum at the low duty, it had risen to 7,122,000 gallons. Where then was the pretence fur saying that the low duty on colonial spirits was operating injuriously on home made spirits? (Rear.) Taking the United Kingdom ea • whole, he found that so far from the competition of elitnial spirits showing any unfavourable result to the hem gettdneer, the result really was unfavourable to the ass lonial soil favourable to the home producer. TY= could, in fact, be no doubt that, atter the arrangement made in 1848, were the Irish distillers to succeed iu obtain ing an alteration by which they would be still further be nefited, the importers of colonial spirits would have just cause to demand • corresponding reduction in the amount of their countervailing duty; and if that reduction were obtained, then the relative position of the two parties would be the same as it was at this moment. lie hoped the house would not listen to the motion of the noble lord, seeing that it could only end in the diminution of the spirit duty altogether, which was not the first duty they would concede, were they disposed to make any further reduction in the taxes of the country. (hear.) Mr. REYNOLDS said the hon. gentleman who had just sat down had talked of so arrangement come to in 1818. Ile (Mr. Reynolth) was not aware that there had been any arrangement to which the Irish or Scotch members were parties. (Hear, hear.) Ile had heard the honourable gentleman with astonishment quote figures which never had had any existence except in his own fertile itll.l - (Loud laughter) For instance, ono of his statements was, that the loss from leakage sad evaporation ' was lid. How had he got that information? (Ilear.) lie then cruised the Tweed, and he said that the loss and evaporation in Scotland was I 1-104. Where did he obtain that information?? because it was not available in any channel to which he (Mr. Reynolds) hail access. (Rear.) Now 12 puncheons of Irish manufactured whiskey had been bonded in Dublin, and the total deficiency on these was 142 gallons, or 12 gallons upon each. That was 8: per cent., and not lid. This might be an isolated case, but it was based on truth, an d capable of proof. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman, in talking of the 4d. differential duty, had called that 31i1., which was in reality only 2;il. (Laughter.) What was the question at issue ? W hat was the complaint of the Irish distillers ? It was this—that they manufactured 8,000,000 of gallons of spirits per annum, and that in the manufacture of these 8,000,000 they consumed 1,000,000 barrels of oats; and they said that if they were placed upon an equal footing with the colonial manufacturer IrAind would be made WI exporting country. True, she was now an exporting country; but to what extent? Scotland had sent into England for consumption 2,600,000 proof gallons, whereas Ireland had only sent 800,000 proof gallons. The Scotch availed themselves of the drawback on malt to a greater ex tent than the Irish, and it was therefore a matter of much importance to Scotland to export whisky into this country. (Rear, hear.) In 1848 . an act was passed permitting the Irish distiller o , • - • England clause The Earl of HARDWICK E, in moving for papers ex planatory of the new regulations on the subject of the retirement of naval officers, expressed a strong opinion .gains the fairnew and jwitice of the arrangement& under which officers on the active list were to be transferred to the retiring list. Lord $ . Earl TALBOT, and one or two other peers concurred in these views. _ . The Earl of MIITu and Earl GREY, however, whilst confessing their inability to deal with the subject in a pro fessi al sense, vindicated the plan from the allegations of injustice and breach of faith, and pointed out the benefits which it was calculated to NYtlfe, both to the navy and to th.• eutintry. Alter a brief discussion, the returns were tc.l •reel, and 'lke house adjourned at a quarter before seven o'clock. TIOUSE OF COMNIONS.—TuEsDAY, MAT S. The Stumm& took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following hills were severally read a third time and Cr• —Briton Ferry, Docks, and Railway Bill; Minister s ' dts' and Orphan.' Fund of the Free Church of Scot land Bill; Reading Waterworks Bill. The following bill. were consid ere d an d agree d to Dundee and Arbroath Railway Bill ; Saint Andrews' Rail way Bill. MANCHESTER, BOLTON, AND BURY CANAL, BILL. On the motion of Mr. Bitortienvox, the minute. of the evidence taken titian the committee on the Manchester, Bolton, and Ilury Cabal Navigation and Railway Extension Bill (Dein) tun: referred to thecommittee on the Mood:wa ter and Salford Extension Railway Bill. WATERFORD, WEXFORD, WICKLOW, AND DI; Ohl N It AILWAY COMPANY. On the motion of Sir W. Vensan the returns ordered on the 11th of April la.t, relating to au: Waterford, We:- NM, Wicklow, and Dublin Railway Company, required by the stleional ruler of Pit 6 relative to railway bills, were ordered to be made by the directors and secretary forthwith. PUBLIC BUSINESS. CAPITAL I'UNIBIIMENT. Mr. EWART postponed Id. motion, in reference to capital punishment, to a future day. NATIONAL EDUCATION. Mr. FOX postponed his moth,. on this subject to the 22nd instant. kIILITAILY KNIOIITS OF WINDSOR. Colonel SA I.W Y gave notice that, un the 20th May ' he would move for a select committ e e to i nqu i re into the claims of the Military Knightsof Wisoltor. A oltN lES' EItI'IFIC.tTE DUTY. Sir W. LAY rave notice, on behalf of Lord It. Groove nor, that, on the 22nd iii.tant, the noble lord would move the repeal of the attorni, . certificate duty. P.tItLI.4MENTA,ItY war v.s.—TIIE BALLOT. Mr. 11. BERKELEY pottlx.ned his motion, in reference to taking the votes of hon. useutbers in the Roux by ballot, to the 27th instant. I'ItOPERTY AND INCOME TAX. Colonel SI said that, on the bringing up of the report on the Property and Inclose Tax Bill he would move certain ono odnient. , , exempting the tenant farmer., as alto pacers in her Majesty's service, from the operation of the tax. HMI! DISTILLING INTERESTS. Loral NAAS said that, on the lint opportunity, he would gall attention t the outoditiou of the interest. in lreland. PILOVENIENT OF TOWNS (IRELAND). Mr. Serpunt Ult Nave notice that, on going into eomidt.e 'as the linprovanidd of Town.. (Ireland) Bill, he wombl none th.,t Cork be anenapted from the oporAtioa of clAtto, Shot offoetedlhe sale of ruru and butter. stulAß DUTIES. Mr. O. IIF.ILK FLEX imlaponed hi, motion relative to thex dutie. to the 22nd mg. THE IRISH MATE PRISONERS. Mr. HAW E 4. in reply wan inquiry by Mr. Anstey. Stated that the Lieutenant Governor of %on Diumn's Lind hail thought it his duty to withdraw thu tickets of le.tre "phial Lid been granted to tho three prisoners, Mlionus, D'lbilterty, and Oltuniihue, in cennseyucncc of their mi.. coslout, in acting in direct disobedience of the regulations, by deliberately leaving their ilistrietu without leave, unit Hut hu tud sentenced them to certain terms of imprison nirot. - Mr. ANSTEY-1 beg to give notice that, on going into commit's eof supply, I will more a v o t e o f censor': on the Governor of Von biemen's Land. (•• Oh, uh," and much laughter.) RAMSG.ITII HARBOUR. Mr. M I NN ON wished to know from the First Lord of the Admiralty what was likely to be dour in reference to the report of the commit's,e of last session, which hewn mewled the abolition of the dues on vessels passing Rama get, Harbour? }sir F. T. BARING said that hefore any derision should be coine to, he thought it right to have is report loon Mr. Walker, oho went down to examine the harbour 'f hat 'import had n o t as pi been math.; but when it should be, be would intlnOtliAttly answer the qustion. SEWERS COMMISSION. EIIIIINUTON, in reply to Sir R. Hall, said that the sewers rate of 6d. in the pound was not levied from the whole district within the juriolietion of the comniissioners, but only upon eight of them. These eight district+ included a rental of I,loo.malt, sot the sun' proposed to be collected was 110,0001. Ile had an account of the liabilities of the several di+. Diets in detail, but he would o n ly state that the cash otenlrawn at present amounted to a0.961V., that the unpaid bobilitim amounts,' to 20,000/., and that the rates worn liable for 110,noot, which was in course of collection. THE LATE. RAILWAY ACCIDENT. In reply to Mr. LEIGH, Mr. LABOUCHEItE said that an inspecting engineer had been sent down On the part of the Railway Commis shiners to investigate all the einamestances connected with the late disastrous and wifurtunate railway accident near Cluster. It would hr his duty to report to the Railway Commissioner., and till that report s.as reeeivad the hon. gentleman could not expect that he should be prepared to exprem any ol 'on as to the Caller of that accident. ASSASsINATION OF CAPT. MILNE NEAR ADEN. In reply to a question by Lord Mum'', Mr. J. WILSON said it was quite true that an officer of the British army had lost his life near Aden, and the go vernment bad received a despatch relating to the transac tion. He WAS glad to say that the transaction wan not connected with polities, mud did in no way as tho character of a difference between the authorities at Aden and the surrounding authorities. lie believed that thu amaasination of Captain Milne was the act of u religious fanatic, and the authorities at Aden were of opinion that the Sultan of lashedge and the other local authorities were sincere iu their desire to apprelis.usl the murderer, and if apprehended to bring loin to justice. • WATER SUPPLY OF TILE METRO P OLIS. Viscount }AIRINGTON wished to ask Sir G. Grey Whether, in the event of Is hew company being formed to execute ronibined works of water supply, sewerage, and house drainage fur the entire rnetrupsilos, in conformity with the principles already recognised by the legislature and the government—(tM , company acting not as an inde pendent proprietary body, but only as contractors, engaging to be subject to the term., conditions, and control of any competent superintending authority which the legislature might see llt In constitute for the purpose)—whether in that ease the government would withdraw their present partial measure, applying only to the water supply of the rarffispolim, and would sanction such an effort on the part of the inhabitants to amaire for themselves the benefit of ouch combined vs me proposed wl. would not only take away all inducements to economy, bu. stimulate fraud and jobbery, and etlllse the indefinite inertase of pauperism throughout the country. Financially, elm, the scheme was impractica ble. The total value of rateable property in 1817 was 6i,320,1.191.; the amount expended lag year under the head of parochial pour relief was 7, 2 _71 1 , 192(. ; the produce of a rate of Is. 61. in the pound, which was to be the maxima's', would be only 6,019,011/. ; so that there would be a deficit of 2,221,11 g to begin with. Then it was pro pried to have local government; but one consequence of adopting the scheme must be the abolition of local self - under the - 4 works and tonsolidated administration ? Sir O. (TREY laid that it was impossible to trice as ex plieit answer to the question of his noble friend. His noble friend illatairaeti that • bill of a more ronsprehennee character than that which be introduced a few nights ado would be brought in. MERCHANT MARINE ACT. Mr. DISRAELI gave notice that he would present a petition from the manners, maten, and mariners of the port Licerpool, sinned toy 6.000 permit's, in favour of NI en- Waive modification oldie Merchant Marine Act. (Cheers.) gov . erniiieut, which, proposed plan, would become Allttgettier he found so many objections to the resolution, that he beg ged to move the direct negative. Alter a few words in reply from Mr. GIAANYLLY BMW KELLY, who declined to pren the motion to a division, ttsa nnohniuu wav negatived by commit. 11031 E-MADE S vuturs TN BOND. Lord NAAS rose, pursuant to notice, to move that a %elect committee be appointed to inquire into the mode et levying the duty on haute-made spirits taken out of bond. said, The motion, he id, was identical with thit made hint by last year, Qtlelt had been repeatedly affirmed by large tll4- , joritsus, and will hustle rejected by a narrow majority of our. The cast he had to lay before the house was very simple. Uy the preacut excise regulation. home-made spirits on leaving the still were drawn oil into a large receiver placed close by. The quantity was then ascertained by gauging, and the duty was then entered on that amount. if there fore the spirits were subsequently placed in bond, the dis tiller was ut the loss of all evaporation or soakage, not only as to the spirits, hut in actually paying duty on, an article t lit hail no existence. The distillers, thin, did not ask fur any repeal of duty, they merely asked for a right, in the denial of which they conceived themselves to have been hardly used, theirs being the only exciseable article on which the duty was levied in tha• peculiar and uufair man lier. The objections made by the government to granting the relief prayed for were three. In the first place, they , alleged that it would be an unsettlement of the great sets Clement of ISIS; secondly, that it would occasion pent 1004 to the revenue ; and, thirdly, that it would at once open adoor to fraud. Now, tiNt ; all ill du. unsettlement. Sot:wham the distillers having been parties to the so-called settlement of ISIS, the Irish distillers were nut consulted by the caw mitten,, there was no Irish member on the committee, sad not a single Irish witness; was called. In fact, the ease of the distillers wee only incidentally mentioned in the repeat. As to the luau to the revenue, the Chancellor of , the Exchequer had acknowledged himself favour- I able to an allowance for waste, hut declined to go farther without consulting the chairman of excise. It 'p :nest that that gentleman had declared that there would be cuunderable loss to the revenue. lie (Lord Naas) thought that on the contrary there would be an increase in the revenue through the increase of production, without any increase of intent for a better sort of spirits would get into general use. for to fraud, he denied its pus sibility. Every safeguard in existence now would be in sentence then, and eves if these means of protection were M at there were a thousand expedients that might he wilested. lie believed that home-music spirits might be sonde a valuable item in our export trade were it not for the absurd restrictions with which its production Iran trammelled. The noble lord concluded by inking the house to esedirm his rosolutiou, an an act of justice to the hone proilucer, which, while it would unsettle no ca bling arrangements, nor cause any material loss to ibis revenue, would, by encouraging th e exp or t o f an article at British industrv, increase employment, auiljadd to the de noted of agriculniral produce. Mr. E. B. ItOCIIE seconded the motion. Mr. J. WILSON observed that after the fullest investi plion the committee of ISIS hail considered that the coun tervailing duty of 4d. a gallon, as against colonial spirits in width lid was taken as equivalent to the deficiency on !skits in bond, won fair to the Irish and Scotch distiller. ' It was true, as the noble lord had stated, that 110 Irish mem ber was upon that committee, nor was any Irish distiller examined before it. The reason was, that the committee was appointed not in regard to Irish, but to colouial spirits. But in the course of the inquiry it was Mond that the questini of home manufactured spirits ueceocacily arose in connexion with the subject -matter of investigation. Al though no' Irish distillor was examined, Mr. Gregg, a Scotch distiller of eminence, and a man of great knowledge and ability, gave evidence before that committee ; and the claims of the Irish and Scotch distillers .sullen being the same, be swag not think the case of th e Irish distillers could lmy Is,. left in better hands. Some misunderstanding had aim as to the funount of deficiency of spirits in bawd, sul from a considerable error in some returns whisk W hew made to parliament some time ago with mud to the deleieney in handed rum. In those returns the average t for • nuniberof yeah was stated to be 31 :allow in the 100, but on further examination it turned out that instead of 3i it was 21 gallons in the Ilk). nesring this in mind, and taking the Scotch duty at 3s. the deficiency of 21 100 to bond his spirits in ...a; but a • WWI refused to be inserted in it allowing him for leakage and evaporation. Now fur every gallon he lost in Ireland he paid 2s. Bd., whereas for every gallon he lo.t in Eng land he paid is. 10d. ; and therefore, as a natural conse quence, the total quantity of Irish whisky bonded is the Queen's warehouses in all England in 11150 was only 116,000 gallons. Ile denied that there was any law to pre vent !British manufactured whisky or gin from being scut to Ira,land. By the law of England the Frenchman, the l'ortugucse, the 8 every foreigner, might send his wine, rum, and randy, into any in t'-o • bond a' the' port in the United Kingdom, —it in any of Queen's store., and permit it to remain there for live or six years. On taking it out the law imposed no penalty upon huu to pay fur any quantity, but it imposed a penalty upon the Irish and Scotch of 2s. Bd. per proof gallon when he took his spirits out of bond, and upon the original quantity too, though it might have lost half itr original quantity by leakage and evaporation, and al.° half its strength. (Hear, hear.) This was o question, not only important to dis tillers, but to labourers and agriculturists, which, if con employment of ' ceded, would increase the .st of the people, and turn a larger quantity of land into tillage. Ile could not agree with the hon. member for Westbury in sacrificing domestic to colonial interests. The Irish members were very near carrying this question before; they were beaten only by one vote, and he trusted they would have a large majority to-night. (Ilear.) Mr. CARTER suggested that the question should be re (erred to a select committee, thinking it too insignificant to take up the time of the house. If persisted iu he would divide the house against the motion. Mr. OROOAN confessed himself unable to comprehend the masses of figures, which he apprehended had been pre pared for the purpose of mystification. The patent facts, however, contradicted the argum en t s a dd uce d b y Mr. Wil son, and there was no question that the home distiller was placed at a serious disadvantage with respect to the colonial or foreign producer. Mr. MILNEIt GIBSON, having been a member of the committee which had recommended the present arrange meat, bore testimony, from his impression of what had taken place before the committee, that such arran gement was a very fair one, and sa id th a t h e s h ou ld, i n the :abscises of furtlierevidence, vote against the motion. Mr. IIUME described Mr. Wilson's as the most lengthy I an d useless statement he ever heard, and said that lie was not, like those around him, so frightened at the word "pro tection," as to be unwilling to do justice to the native pro ' dueer. Thinking that fair play to the latter demanded that Lord NO.Ol should be allowed to bring in his bill, ha should support the motion. Sir G. CLERK. opposed the motion, declaring himself very unwilling to disturb an arrangement which, he said, had been originally come to so far back as IS2d, and which had been ever since found to work remarkably well. Cul. DUNNE disputed the soundness of Mr. Wilson's arguments, and argued that the home producer of whisky was unfairly treated, in a different way train the foreign producer of rum. The CIIANCELLOIt of the EXCHEQUER __ fa going to impute to the noble lord (Lord Naas) any de sire to encourage fraud ; but still it must be apparent that his motion would open a door to fraud, unless they were prepared to adopt inure stringent measures than he wished to propose. (Hear, hear.). At present the interests of tho owners of spirits in bond were identical with those of the government; (or he had just as much reason 110 the officers of the revenue to take care that no portion of the spirits should be abstracted while it was there. If, however, the owner should he made a gainer by every gallon that could be abstracted, it web clear that a great temptation to fraud would be created. (Hear, hear.) It was evident, then, that if the motion of the noble lord were passed, it would become necessary, with a view to protect the revenue, that many facilities now enjoyed by the distillers should he withdrawn; and that distillation should be prohibited in many places where it was at pre sent allowed. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had stited last year that the whole of the Irish and Scotch distillers were ruined in ISIS, and last year were considerably in jured by competition with the colonies. Now if that had really been the caws the result must have been an increased consumption of colonial spirits and a diminution in the home-made spirits; but the contrary had taken place, and the noble lord hail therefore shown great discretion in ab staining fronts repetition of that argumen t ; because, if he . 4 01 - had not the facts ofthe case would ha'ile utterly disproved his statement. There had been an iucreaeo in the consumption of Irish and Scotch spirits of 600,000 gallons; a diminu tion in rum of 110,000; and in foreign brandy of ;soa,oao gallons. (Cheers.) The noble lord had said it was not a case in which a question of revenue was concerned ; but he (Sir C. Wood) begged entirely to differ from the noble lord on that point. lie mug take leave to appeal to hon. gen• tlemen on both sides of the house upon this matter, since their decision on Led Friday. It was clear that he must lose a considerable amount of the duty if the resolutions _ . . _..._ __ ....... i ....ones-eie amount of the duty if the isa....__ , were ...s 2Fipilists per would mooing to but ;fried, not only on the Irish and Scotch spirits, but on the . , ATLEBI3I.7ILY ELECTION. a fraction mire than 11:d. a gallon; and in the same pro- I colonial spirit. on which he would h ave to rem i t duty to On the motion of Mr. IL PALMER. a select co mm i ttee I portion iii regard to this Irish spirits, on which th e d u ty i balance the boon to the British distillers. (Hear, hear.) was appointed to con s id er th e matters alleged in th e p e ti- w e ts 2.. Sd . B u t t a ki ng t h e actual quantity of spirits ware. !He would ask, then, honourable gentlemen as liens of T. H. Bradford and John Strutt, respecting the hoesed is S co tl an d and Ireland in th e year 1810, and esti- both sides of the ho use w h et h er they were diqsosed Aylesbury electioo. mating the deficiency by that of rum, it amounted to in to diminish the revenue derivable from sources which they NATIONAL. POOR RATE. the one ease to 1 1-10 d., and in the other to 1.1. e per all admitted were unobjectionable. Hon. gentlemen oppos Yr. ORANTLBY BERK ELP.I' said that, in asking the gallon. Again, the Irish and Scotch dastillen had the site were anxious to repeal the income tax, and hon. um brella. to agree to the motion of which he had given notice, advantage of the allowance not only on the spirits which I tlemen on th a t s id e o f the house were as anxi ous to re d one be mom admit that the subject was one which invoiced actually went into bond and on Which the loos arose, but !the window tax and the duties on foreign imports ; but he sway Foists ef considenbleimportioiec. He confessed that cm that which went direct from the distiller to the eon-' appealed to them whether it was nut equally desirable far the object he had is view was to afford some relief to the ; sunlit and on which there was no lose at all. 0(11,500,000 them both not to meddle with this particular subject. Ile eirieniteral dietriete, which were in a greatly depressed ' gallons of spirits made last year in Scotland, only 7,300,000 thought he might also appeal to the Irish members them. tenditios. No perms who bad considered this subject ' went into bond, the other 4,200,000 baring gone direct to ' selves ; for they, too, were interested in getting rid of bur would deny that the prior law and the law of settle- the consumer. It was the mine with regard to Irish thensome taxes, and he would ask whether, °lithe whole, smut had fallen very short of the results which the, , 61460. of which oat of 8,300,000 gallons distilled ooly there could be a better tax than one on spirits. (Hear, were designed to bring about. Ile was surprised to find it 6,296,000 went into bond. He (Mr. Wilson) was . hear.) Nor could they say that they were unfairly treated, Mated m a return with regard to the number of poor in his ' aware that the number of distilleries had dimioished. ' for while the English duty was 7s. 1041., the Scotch onrlk county that there WIN a diminution in the 1 but the whole tendency of manufactures was for the smaller I was 3s. 6.1.„ and the Irish 2.. &I. Was there not rather meant of pauperism, whilst there was no I c ed Ito give way before tbc forger enterprises, consequent en the good grounds for saying that they ought to pay as much La the pow rate. This discrepaney led hint to 1 introduction of machinery and q additional donned las the Baldish ? He did not propose to raise their duty inquire lain the subjeet,•and he fours d a.. the result of his ; fur capital which followed. A id this he believed but he did ask the house to maintain what was already inquiries that , p r ior to 1846, if a man and his wife having I was iu point of fact what was weaning in re- ' paid. ( Hear, hear.) He appealed to those hon. gentlemen eight children applied Apr relief for one child they were put' spect to the manufacture of Irish spirits ; for while' who were anxious that the revenue should be maintained to down La the Mini " eight persons. But the tight hon. i the number of di s tilleries was diminishing the quart- rememb,r (hat lag week one very large and important gnatlesnan in 1844/ lowed an order requiring that in future I tity of spirits made waa increasing enormously. In amount had been put i nto a state at least of some jeopardy. they should he only returned as three sons. Again it' 1811. there were 8! distilleries, and the quantity of spirits (Cheers.) Well. he was very sorry for it, because he MO required hy au min of the same date that those per- ' produced was 6,400 , 000 gallons, bob in 1800, when the allfli• thought that the finances of this grad country should not have been endangered by such a vote; but it was, at all evrts, incumbent on them that those items against which no ti ons were entertained should be maintained ( , hear.) It was the duty of them all rainistatheVredit of the country whichever side should erentitally arseceed. (Cheers.) Kw. NAPIER (amidst loud cries of "Divide!") sup ported the motion, arguing that the suggested modification. in the needs of collecting the excise duty would materiality benefit the Irish distillers, who were men of small capital, by enabling them to compete on better terms with the great English capitalists. Mr. A. HASTIE supported the motion. Lord J. RUSSELL said he considered this a motion j effect to reduce the duty ou Scotch and Irish spirits. Nob he thought it was perfectly obvious that, if the duties were originally fixed with a view that they should he charged in the way in which they were now charged, if they either diminished the duties loy so much, or altered the way in which the duties were charged, so that they amounted to two-and-a-half per cent. less, in one way or the other they diminished the duty on Scot c h and Irish whisky. There fore that was the plain question before the house. It might be a better way that all these Irish and Seoteh spirits should only be charged after they hail been a long time in bond. The objection to that was that it was liable to fraud ; but supposing that objection not to apply, that might bo a better mode than the present mode, but in that case they must arrange their du ties accordingly. It was not the fact, as the hon. member for Glasgow seemed to suppose, that where is. was charged on Scotch spirits, 3.. Bd. was charged upon rum. On the contrary, 3s. Bd. was charged on Scotch spirits and 4s. on rum. And with regard to the statement made by the honourable member for Dublin, who said was there not great unfairness if they allowed a different mode of paying the duty with regard to Irish spirits and with regard to French brandy and Spanish rum, why, there was this to be considered, that while they were pay ing in Ireland a duty of 2a. Sd., rum was paying 35., and French brandy end Spanish ruin were paying no less than 158. ; and therefore it was obvious that if they gave an advantage in this way to Scotch and Irish spirits, they must give a similar advantage to colonial rum, and Spanish rum, and French brandy. Then it came to a question of reducing the duty on spirits, and he did say that as a question of revenue that was not a duty he was prepared to reduce. lie knew no other limit with re gard to these duties on spirits than to have them not too high to encourage smuggling and fraud. lie thought there could be no harm in having high duties on spirits, provided always they did not encourage smuggling and illicit distillation. Well, if that was not the case, and if, on the contrary, they find, as wa s pertinently observed by the hon. member fur Westbury, that these Scotch m o b Irish spirits had gone on increasing in quantity, while English spirits had diminished, he thought that was a rea son why the house should not diminish the duties. lie must say he was against this change, in the first place, be cause he was not wishful to dimiuish the duty on spirits ge nerally; and, secondly, because he was not prepared to give an unjust advantage to Scotch and Irish spirits. Mr. DISIt.IELI said he should not have risen had it not been for the observations of the noble lord. The noble lord said he admitted the justice of the proposition of his noble friend, but he said it was not brought forward in a proper manner. Had it been brought forward to remedy a fault in detail it might be considered, but as a proposi tion to reduce the duties on Scotch and Irish spirits, he could not for a moment entertain it. The noble lord said they talked of the injustice to the Irish or the Scotch dis tiller subjected to a taxation from which the foreigner was exempt, front which the Spaniard or the Frenchman was exempt ; why, the Frenchman and the Spaniard paid a duty of 1.55. 'Hut the fallacy of the observation of the noble lord was this, that one was $ duty paid by the consumer and the other was a duty whirls weighed on the producer. (Cheers and counter cheers.) The argument was this, that fur the benefit of the consumer the producer should be subject to an unjust restriction. Why the noble lord and his colleagues were opposed to these unjust restrictions upon industry. Then the noble lord found refuge in the fallacy which had been already stated in this debate; he said, they admitted) the injustice, still they could not deity that the trade had increased. But because the trade prospered, was that any rerun why the trade should be sub ject to this injustice? And, if they could show that the prosperity was in consequence of other circumstances, that prosperity was no argument against the proposition of his noble friend. The injustice was acknowledged, and the remedy was easy, sod he trusted the derision of the house, as on Friday, would show that this routine in eutolic °filet., by which stereotyped 'roams were given to justify their proceedings, would re ceive another cheek. bidding, ehould lay my resignation before her Majesty. (Laughter and cheers.) The hon. and learned member fur ,Shefffild says this is the fourth time government has been delasted; bat there is a phrase couched in homely language *lnch was once used by Lord Castlereagh when leading the government party in this house. The noble lord—whon the house had come to a vote in respect to the abolition of the whole or part of a tax, and cheered loudly—said, " I advise hon. gdntlemcn not to halloo before they are out of the wood." (Laughter.) Now, let us observe in respect to these defeats to which the hon. and learned gentleman has alluded—that defeat on which we resigned office was with respect to the introduction of a bill by the hon. gentleman the member for Surrey (Mr. L. King). But, on our return to office, the question came again befOre the house, and the decision then was different from that originally come to, and my views were confirmed by a large majority, so that what was at first defeat was subsequently decided in oar favour. (Hear, hear.) On the other occasion a defeat was caused by a motion on the management of the Woods and Forests. That question is not yet decided, because it is not our intention to set on the resolution of the house, but to introduce a bill similar in principle to that of last year, and the house will then have an oppor tunity of deciding whether they will confirm their Conner decision by a majority, or think oar plan the one that should be substituted. So that in the prcseut state of affairs, although the hon. and learned gentleman the mem ber for Sheffield, has asserted that we have been four times defeated, it appears that one of those defeats has been fol lowed by a victory over those who were the cause of that defeat, and that _the second question of defeat is not yet decided. (Hear.) The third division which took place was that on the motion of the hon. member for Montrose (Mr. Hume.) Now, I did not cosider that division to be of the nature to which the hon. and learned gentleman refers,. viz., that by it the house meant to take the government of the country into its own hands. I consider those ques tions of taxation to be such, that the house, repre senting the country, have a peculiar claim to have their opinions listened to, and that the executive government is bound to give consideration to their opinions and suggestions. (Hear, hear.) Well, we now come to the question which has just been decided by the casting vote of I the Speaker. On that question I must apply the observe ! tion to which I have already referred. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) I remember last year the noble lord (Naas) was successful, and vet he did not finally alter the law ; and I believe in the end the house will be of opinion that the measure of the noble lord ought not to br adopted, or, if adopted, that it must lead to some arrangement of the colonial ditties, so as to place colonial spirits on the s.une equality with Scotch and Irish. That being my opinion, sir, I will not tell the hon. and learned gentleman, the member for Sheffield, notwithstanding his suariter #ll modo —(a laugh)—what other course I propose to take on the present occasion. Theae, sir, are matters of too grave so import. The character of a govern ment ought not to bo sacrificed, or even impaired, by submitting it to frequent defeats without a decluratom that its members could no longer maintain that government. (Hear, hear.) At the same time, no person will deny that the resignation of the government under present cir cumstances would involve serious consequences. (Hear, hear.) Some may think consequences of great good fortune whilst others may think the opposite ; but whether of good or bad fortune, no person can deny that it is a very great and important matter, not merely as regards the gustation of free trade, important as that is, but with regard to many other questions of domestic and foreign policy which must be affected by a change oh government under present cir cumstances. (Hear, hear.) All I can say is, I trust those who have supported us and adopted our views with regard to public policy will give us credit fur weighing on every occasion what is required by our sta tion, and that we are not disposed, on the one hand to allow the character of government to he impaired and worn away in our hands. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand, it is from no sense of affront or pique that 111 Id propose to come to so important a decision as that of resign ing our offices with a view to a change of government in the country. It is not a question to be discussed anal bandied about in debate. (Loud cries of " hear ") It is a question for responsible consideration, and I therefore call upon those hon. members who have hitherto agreed iu our policy, and I ask them to leave it to us to make that de cision, anal making it, as I shall, with a view to the welfare of the country, I will not have to reproach any own con science with having deserted the many interests which I am bound to maintain. (Loud cheers.) The house then went into committee on the resolution, which, having been put from the chair, a division was loudly called fair. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took place. On our entrance to the gallery, Mr. lICMI. was addressing the house amidst great con fusion and loud cries fur a division. Ile was understood to say that he agreed with the noble lord in the view he took with respect to the conduct which a minister should pursue on an occasion like the present, but he thought it would be more consistent with the dignity of the situation of the noble lord if lie allowed the resolution to be passed (as we understood.) (Loud cries of " Divide.") Lord J. RUSSELL said that he should leave the matter entirely in the hands of the noble loyal opposite (Lonl Naas). Ile thought it fair to take another divi s i o n on the question. (" Hear, hear," and cries of " Divide.") Ile should not like to do anything that the noble lord could consider an unfair advantage ; but as the house was at that moment more full than it was before, he did not thick there was anything unfair in taking another division. (" Oh, oh," and cries of " Divide ") Lord NAAS said that the reason asaigued by the noble lord for a second division was in his opiniou the very reason why it would be unfair to take one, because it was those member: who had attentively listened to the debate—(" Oh, oh," anal " hear, lintel —that divided, and after many of these had leg it would not Ise fair to have it re-decided by mends rs many of whom had not been present at the pre vious discussion. (" Hear, hear," said cries of " Divide.") Ile must remind the noble lord also that he took a different course last year ; for on that occasion he did not oppose the putting of the resolution into the chairman's hands. (Hear, hear.) The resolution was only putting into writing the principle which the house had affirmed. (" Hear, hear," and " Divide. " ) Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was quite impossible for him to assent to the resolution. (" Oh," " Hear," and " Divide.") The circumstauces in the present case were entirely different from those of last year. (Hear, hear.) Last year the noble lord had had a majority of those who agreed with him in opinion, but in the present instance the majority was formed of the vote of the Speaker, who stated that he gave his vote in conformity with usage, in order to enable the house to consider the matter further. (" Hear, hear," anal loud cries of " Divide.") Mr. FRESIEFIELD moved that the chairmen report Progress. Mr. BERNAL having put the question amidst consider able confusion and loud cries for a division, Lord J. RUSSELL said that he would not oppose the motion that the house should resume, which would leave the question in the position it stood. (" Divide, divide.") Lord NAAS having also assented, the question was put and agreed to, though several member,' called for a division. The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the house re sumed, the further consideration of the resolution being postponed till Friday. ST. ALBAN'S ELECTION. Mr. E.ELLICEsoid that, at that late hour, he should be as brief as possible in introducing the motion of which he had given notice for a commission to inquire into the pro ceedings at the recent St. Albans election. What he had to do was to satisfy the house that there was good ground for inquiry, and that the course he proposed was the hest that could be adopted. According to the evidence that was taken before the committee, it appeared to him that the present use was analogous to the former cases of Sudbury and Great Yarmouth. In both of these cases extensive bribery was committed, and the mode in which it was conducted was similar to the present case. It appeared that when the candidate appeared in the town a house was taken in a convenient spot, which was enti re ly under the control of tl e com m itt ee for conducting the elec tion. To this house there were usually two accesses in two different streets, so that a person went in by a door in one street and came out by a door in a different street. That was the case in the present instance also. They had no' proof of bribery in the preseut case, b u t th e y had proof the individual voters went into this house by one door, that they communicated with the per s on i ns id e; th at they promised their vote; and that they came out by a different door. It was proved, however, that these individuals went to public-houses and exhibited gold to the amount of four or eve pounds. It was true that when before the committee they swore most positively that they had not received money in that room ; but considering that they also swore that they were not in possession of any money at all, and that it was 'afterwards distinctly proved by respectable testimony that they were. there could be little doubt in the minds of the committee that those persons through some one, and in some place—the probability being that it was in this room— received money in return for a promise of their vote. Now, the person who sat in that room was a person of whom the house had heard a good deal, and who was named Edwanis. That person volunteered leis evidence, and was ready to be examined, but he was not examined. The three persons who were examined were persons who were stated ts have been bribed by this man Edwards ; but, whatever the impression of the committee might be, there was no proof of actual bribery against any individual. 110 ad verted to this point more particularly, because the com mittee had been blamed fur not having adjourned the in- ! query. The committee were certainly not disposed t o p ass by any legitimate opportunity of obtaining evidence • but ; r kn ; c e ef e e, I l e t c a n du ed n g yo havew the I I s ehypi would gh exposed L f , ei houe e eb v . td i d ata e ra . t d h t o a t o t g t t a h e r s e r e a u: w w t h e m a s e I o w k h u e i r I e l e y h t 4' w o, h e g e h h a t it being quite clear that the petitioner's case was e'en, of th l e f m th t e o witnesses had been examined they 1 penal consequences. Still there could be no doubt whatever, looking at the manner in which thewiniesses gave their evidence, and at the resem blance which the case bore to other cases in which bribery had been established, that the committee was fully justified an concluding that bribery was practised. The gener a l evidence was, he thought, particularly strong. And as his only ; chance of obtaining his bill was th e ma ki ng out of arose ' from the evidence, he hoped the house would allow hint to refer to it. This was the evidence of William Payne I Payne, in th e course of his examinati on , h a d ment i oned . ell metal" and "electioneering money." H e was asked : The house then divided. For the motion Against it The announcement of the result was hail.' with loud cheers by the opposition. The SPE.taatt gave his casting vote in favour of the mo tion, and it was consequently carried. On returning to the gallery we found Mr. ROEBUCK addressing the house—Under the extra ordinary circumstances in which the government was • placed, the house having now assumed to itself—he dal not speak without justice—uot alone the supervision, but the actual government of the country—he wished to ask a ques tion—(" Oh, ..h," from an hon. member on the °imposition side.) Ile (Mr. Roebuck) could well understand how some disappointed follower of the government could cry " Olt." (Laughter.) But when he saw the government forced to make so many alterations, to adopt so many methods in the government of the country and the managemsut of public taxation, all their plans being altered or modified by the Howie of Commons, he appealed to the noble lord at the head of the government, as to a man who had been brought up in the constitutional principles of govern ment, and in the idea that the House of Commons was the supervising power, marring its sense of the opinions of go ventment by its majorities, and he then asked him whether or not he was in a position to govern the country ? (Inter ruption.) Was it wise or politic to retain the powers of government under existing circumstances? Now let them understand what was going on in the country. They were told, on the opening of the session, that certain things were to be done. The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave intimation of what he intended to do, and he would say there was not an interest in the country that was not affected by these declarations of the Chancellor's. Let it not be supposed that matters as they at present stood, should he regarded as matters of party. Ile looked un the state of affairs in reference to the country it self ; and if the house was so blind to the interests of the country ex to keep them in their present condition—like Mahomet's coffin, suspended betwixt heaven and earth— why let the house have the responsibility. (Hear, hear.) But he appealed to the noble lord as :the individual respon sible on the present occasion not to lend his authority to this state of things. He (Mr. Itoebuck) asserted that any minister who regarded, not only the interests of the country, but his own personal character, would not lend himself to such penlition. (Loud erten of "Oh.") He recollected when the party of the noble lord placed the administration of the Duke of Wellington in a minority, one, who was not in the House of Commons at present—having been exalted to the upper house—as won ma the minority was declared, rose to ques tion Sir It. Peel as to the intentions of ministers. That was a single minority; but the noble lord, the first minister of the crown, at recent lived in minorities. (Laughter, and " Oh, oh.") It was contrary to the interests of such a country as England, it waa contrary to the spirit of their constitution, that any administration should maintain itself amid such difficulties by such means. It was con trary to the spirit of the constitution that an administration should exist by sufferance, and be insulted day after day by the conquests of the opposition, and vet he unable to defena one principle on which it existed. 'Therefore be begged to ask the noble lord whether now, on the occasion of this fourth defeat, on a matter intimately connected with the taxation of the country, upon a matter intimately con nected with their mercantile concerns, whether lac thought it wise, under the circumstances, to contiuue in the position he then held? Its believed the noble lord would more fully satisfy the desire of those who wished to advance the great principle on which the existing govern ment was fouadsal, by not lending himself to the present state of things, hut declaring that if it were the wish of the house to take the administration of the af fairs of the country out of his hands, they should have an immediate opportunity. He would therefore conclude by asking thenohle lord whether, in his opinion, it was wise or politic—he would say nothing of honour—to continue in his present position, seeing the position in which his admi nistration was placed Lord JOHN RUSSELL.—Sir : the hon. gentleman ha asked me whether I mean to retain office under the present circumstances? The hon.gentleman said hethought it would be injurious to the country were I to do so ; and that the commercial interests especially would suffer. The hon. gentleman has a perfect right to put any question of this kind, with a view, as he states, to the interests of the country. But, sir, he has given me an advice with regard to my own personal character—(cheers)—which I most respectfully decline—(cheers)—thanking the hon. gentle man at the same time for his good intentions. but also assuring him that I will take care of my personal character myself. (Loud cheers.) Si r , a t anot h er period, a period when the government of this country wan in abeyance, and when those to whom it had been offerer) had nut resolved to undertake the charge of forming a government, the hon. gentleman the member for Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck) said in this house that he wished me to con sider that the interests of free trade were in my hands. (Cheers.) What the hon. gentleman precisely meant when he said so, I will not undertake to say. But of this I am aware, that the general interests of the country—not free trade alunc--but tile general interests of the country, its welfare and tranquillity, are very much dependent on the conduct of those who have at the moment the direction of affairs. (Hear, hear.) But, sir, I have not hesitated when I thought that the direction of affairs should be taken out of our hands unless we succeeded in certain objects, to stake the eenteuee of the government on these questions and:objects. (Cheers.) I did not hesitate to do so whoa the ! question of the repeal of the navigation laws was before us, and when it was said we were prepared for the consequences of throwing out that measure by retiring from many, which view office on its rej ec ti on b y t h e h ouse. (lieu, hear.) Last year I took a view differing from was strongly impressed on my own mind, with reference to the slave trade; and I declared I would not retain office a single day after an adverse vote of this house on the ques t:on. (Cheers.) But I think, sir, I have some right, as well as my colleagues, to consider what is the fit o .portu suty on which I shall retain office or think it necessary to lay my resignation before her Majesty. (Hear hear.) At Hie commencemeut of the present session I have I shown such anxiety as to make it necessary that I the hon. member for Sheffield should be my Mentor, and i. should inform ala when the moment is come that I, at his Too speak abut Bell-metal and eleetioneering money ; Is It a sub. jest which is usually tal.ed eb Lut, eleetimmering mosey I—We were ell laughing; they gave money the name of Bell-metnl, in dt. M imes ; ihey do not cell it eilrer or gold. What do you me in by electr in mosey T—l do not know what be me int ; I do not km iw what It- did mean by that. L its common term in st. Ail:was; have you ever heard of election moisey before I- I haie brew talk of pro; te having U ; I was laugh isod joking, rod I said I beds good mind t o p ut up f or t h e b orough de. Album myself, and I would if I had plenty of money; three or four of them prossised me their votes Men. Whet dors mesa by elation many t—l do not knew wtut they were known im hemp should be obliged, before I ba of distilleries had fallen to 53, the toaatity of spirits 1 IC wor khouse, to do some modicum of work, whie.:4 distilled had asat ts 14236,000 sac.. Th e sow. lord feet of still further reducing the amber ;; pan- complained of the injury the /Ash sad scotch distillers med. But this reduction was rO°r: . U 1 appeuese i ee were suffering from the competition of colonial spat to the slay. He wee satisfied t.Liat the ?relent Mete of home market. New, he found that in 1847, year fol- aw and of the law to se , ClWipi . Fhallie . . 4 # • ram duties, elm ''l tril t s :t ems iu the poor, wbilst it t V * .aartri.i .: ~ . ____, .. . . ,„„ land mem , nof the expenditure. Whams he ._ l i t n , . h): Mir piers of cointreti at tha 0 state of Ireland, and, fair `" 1 • trY, .."......; if t ' to 7,• 18 1 000 13 1 fiew '( ear, h ertt' Ile IC ilnish, he thought he Xhisuld. ve jr: I. in th' of this cimpetition t which spa aid be,Ye is his motion, as will . as Eoglned • ,ale. uncou th :l6 m i unfair, I& connomptiria of house made desired was to , equate the rutr, 4 trlxieb ~peeng apin ' hail.,assreesed by 1,400,000 os hi four ias high as 17s. Od , whilst in Othetipleess iiviii . there was a complaint by the Irish Millers In Bishopwearmouth he believed the rate wee as that their trade with England had fallen ME ut let them Is. 9d. It appeared to bin that all property should look to the trade as it had existed from 1841. In that year sportiest of the poor rate. Hut that wee wet his the expert of sleeks hem. Ireland to iLepland wee 330,000 virsition..All that ho now asked was that the ellons ; in 1842 . it .. wee 291,000 gallons; in 1843 it was mean by It; I was always laying that I trews no man e.sild get la without money; we were Laughing and jokine toge , hyr. Do you mean money pAid by the eandidetes? —Yes, the iv what we w. re timi& ng a n,l talking shoot; I mid " I will give anybody 101.., w and three or tour of them sdal they would seise me. Ito you mess to say that it is a Mar sr 0: nWoritry that this election money is prevalent in St. Albans? - Ititt is what I have always been in formed. On former occasion. as well as thief —Tr; I hare known • great many elections; 1 bare been living there nearly rilztecn years name July. Ihd you erer know an eke lon at St. Albans, where there wu not • tulk of elettuin money I—Nu, I n vet kncw one that I remember. The candid de who came without it, I euppow, would m.t havebeen very well reeeired ! Carden wee received very well: I did not he ar any gnat talk about hie money , I do not knew that h" epent a Or ging. We. election money ever called B. Ildnetal tin this lad election, vreen the wadi...laic!' name happened to be Bell! —No, I never Ileum! It before. The nest witness examined was Mr. Baily, respecting whom he would remark, that he was a pecan of great re spectability, and upon whose evidence the committee had every reason to place great reliance. Ho was asked : D.d you bear any cony nation then -They were ' , peaking about the election, about the Ue;l.me•al. the otcsirsction was made, ••11‘ete is some of the g inc." What did you understand by Ded-metal I—The money they had received from Mr. Bell's t.arty. Rewired f•r what I —Yoe their entry. ..... Do you mean , o say it is a common aubject of notoriety that votes are bought in St. Alban*? -oertion:r it Are you aorminteu with St. Al 4 ins -Yen. How I.mg hive you b en sointai..ti*l with St. Allmitsl-1 have lived there singe I was about tour years .1.1. II Awe you Mimeo Other elections! -Ver. liar it been alma matter of notoriety at other eleeti.,na, betides this! -It has also. Is there arty CVI2IIIOII amount that Is antorloue u the prioe or • vote t lire pounds was StAttai that night in the bar where :his man !toward war, and it was general y unfit tstoori hr en cc one in the room that he had receiced .11. ; I can glee pu another instmoc. It lea nutoridtm thing that money I. given f etc. In :it. ApmnaT It bk. If the evmmitteo will allow me 1 will state what one of the partses stated to me. Is W. the standard !—Fir • pounds was generally undcr,tood to be the standar I for a vote then. . . . la It ever leen? -When thcre nn money of the nth. r 4 , ie, it will go (lowa as low as 21. or 31., nnivornetiv.en to VP, . . a it is a oicomori and no:arious too that at this and former el-ctions bilbery has reuil.l In the town! Certainly it is; there is not a voter that can deity it. Hie must ask the house to turn back to 1811, and to the proceedings which took place before a committee which then sat. Then, no now, there had been a contested election at St. Albano, and Lord ' ' Listuwel was the successful candidate. Mr. Edwards, who had figured so much in this Cast', had also considerable notoriety in 1811. In that case, too, general twittery was alleged ; but when the committee were on the point of obtaining conclusive evidence the parties, who wcnre o n tprcompromise,compromise, ly ., anda luA Jurtte withdrawn. ,vi c L am i c ,he tlb jecoat compromise,uf the committee was thus frustrated, hut they made a special report to the house, and asked leave to lay on the n the i petit il i. w table the evidence which they hail taken. P news then ran high; and though there was a good deal of di:eussion no further inquiry took place. With regard to the ques tion whether there ought in this case to be an inquiry, ho thought the house ought is he bound by tho recommen dation of the committee, though übjectiuns ought be urged agaiust the species of inquiry which he proposed. In the Sudbury case, the cammiaioners reported the existence of bribery ; and upon that, a bill of disfranchise ment passed both lionses. That precedent, being perfectly ontistitetory in its results, ought now to bo followed. As n earliest bribery, there could be but one opinion as to the necessity of checking it ; and the interference of the house in this CAW might have that effect, at all events in St. Al- Isms, where bribery had existed fur a number of years. The hon. member concluded by moving for leave to bring in a bill for appointing commissioners to inquire into the existence of bribery in the borough of St. Alcune. The motion having been seconded, Mr. COBDEN rose to move the amendment of which he had given notice, to 04141 to the motion the words ' and of bribery, treating, and corruption, in the Falkirk district t burgh..." Ile said he relies...eta...a a Italy of electors of Falkirk, whose petition he had present, 0, praying that in any inquiry into other pewee, the district of the Falkirk burghs might he included. That petition stated that, en the day of polling, ql spirit shops were opened in the in terest of the sitting member (Mr. B aird) ; the consequence wee frightful scenes of debauchery and intoxication; and a riot was threatened, which rendjred it necessary to call in the aid of the military. The petition, signed by four elec tors, had been withdrawn without their knowledge. If this had been done on account of the possible expense, that was an additional reason fur entertaining the qua the Provost of Falkirk, expressing the general disap pointment now. lie (Mr. Cobden) had rec e iv e d a l e tt e r f ro m and surprise of the electors on the withdrawal of the petition, and stating that be had never witnessed Up to 1811, the character of the s e burgh s , lik e th a t o f mos t such scenes of dissipation na took place at the last electi on . other Scotch burghs, had been unimpeachable in point of political morality. In lfifl, when the brother of the sitting member was the candidate, those malpractices had begun ; but they had been generally confined to the borough of Airdrie, which was mainly dependant on the very ext miive iron-works, the property of the sitting member and his brother. In HOG Mr. Baird resigned his oat, and Lord Lincoln became a candidate. Ile was opposed by Mr. Wilson; and at that election tho malpractices, which had been confined to Airdrie alone, ex tends(' to other of the burghs. In 1817, at the general elec tion, Lunt Lincoln stood again, and was opposed by Mr. Boyd ; and then those scenes of dissipation and general core ruption, which hail marked Airdrie at the previous elece tions, became almost as had iu Falkirk and Hamilton. Then cane the late contest betwecu Mr. Loch and Mr. Baird. A competent legal gentleman bad been down to the burghs, one who was totally unemuected with them, who had never been in Scotland before, mad he had taken down, from the lips of individuals there, statements corro borating those of the petition. Robert Binnic, in a deposie thin signed by himself, in the preoence of the provost of the burgh, stated that be was a grocer and spirit dealer at Graham's Town ; that he had always voted for the liberals, and intruded to doe, at the last elec tion ; that on the Friday before the nomination Mr. Rus sell, one of Mr. Baird's law agent*, called upon him and asked him for hi. rot • ; he declined to promise, whereupon Mr. Russell hinted that he might change hit mind. The same night a party of Mr. Baird's friends called at his house and went up stairs. Whilst they were there several work ing peo partsle, nonolectors, came into the bar. Mr. 31aelaren, one of the pae of Mr. Baird's trends, came down stair s of his own accord, and seeing the people there desired witness to give them what they wanted. He gave them drink. Whilst he was doing so, Mr. Maclaren was continually look ing in and nut of the room, and said, " Give them what they like ; Mr. Baird is rich enough to pay for it." Wit ness considered this a salads iit order, and confined to keep open house till the day of nomination (Tuesday). On tho preceding Monday night there was a tremendous business doing. A number of people came and hail supper in the back room ; John Dick presided. They had bread and cheese, whiskey, porter, lemonade, and vinegar cordial. (Laughter.) '1 hey sat eating and drinking all the evening. They drank a good deal, atilt carried away a good deal. alaclaren and anoth e r w ere i n at the time.Muclaren said, " Well, Robert, you arc getting nu here famously ; the steam is getting up; keep them alive. There is not a nicer party in the town than yours." (Great laughter.) There were .50 or 60 persons there at the time, though the room would only seat 25; but they were close packed, some sitting and seine standing, awl the kitchen also was full. Witness got them out before twelve o'clock ; eleven WWI his usual hour of clueing. Many of them were drunk, of course. The following morning was the nomination. l'euple began to conic fur drink by six o't lock, and the place was quite mobbed by half-past six. They came for their " morning," a term which hon. members front Scotland would no doubt understand. (Great laughter.) They had brandy, whisky, or anything they chose to ask for, the same as the nieht be fore. Several got drunk speedily, and he was obliged to get them away. S ome were drunk by eight o'clock or half past eight. .Many bad to be carried aw ty. Witness gave two men a bottle of whisky to assist some of the drunken ones home, or to see them to a place of safety. (Laughter.) Several boys, from ten to fourteen years of age, were tipsy, and swearing in the street. He did not give them drink, but other people in the town did. Two fouudry.boys came and diked him to give them drink. Ile would only read one more extract from the evidence of a person named Waugh, a grocer and spirit dealer, in Graham's l'own, a suburb of Falki r k W aug h stated that on the afternoon of Monday, before the nomination, M'Laren and M'Cowie ordered hint to provide refresh ments, fur which he (SP Laren) would be responsible, for all who came. lie was to 'give the people plenty to eat and drink, and not to allow fighting. Two hundred came and had whisky and brandy and cordials ; in addition he missed five dozen bottler., which must have been taken away. They became rather riotous about 10 o'clock, when he told them he would not giro another mutchkin. He sent to Mr Potter, but the latter told him to go on and let them drink. On the Tuesday before the poll, the peopl e came again and demand e d th eir " mornings." 141' Laren came again on Wednesday, and witness asked him was he to let people n t . h . aotn,heeenna any db (, more, lw w h fourteenheo wereg a he l lalon6lasvide (I ry d hrdrunk . whisky. k e a a l tin a T u d h gh ere Now, he begged gentlemen who laughed to attend tothe evidence of respectable inhabitants of the borough, who, much to their honour, had protested against such scenes. If their example was more frequently followed they would not have many such political Oomorrahs as Sudbury. Dr. Harailten, a medical practi'ioner at Falkirk, deposed to having found two youths lying drunk in the reed on the night preceding th'e election, in such a situation that they would have inevitably boon run over had he not removed them to a piece of safety. On raising them up he asked one how he came there, and he answered " Oh, there's open house at Sandy Waugh . .." They had another youth with them not quite so drunk, who assisted them home. He considered the case ten times worse than that of St. Albans. There a man was taken into a room and paid 5/. for his vote ; but here a more demoniacal practice was adopted ; ' for, it being necessary to secure the votes of some publi c cans, two hundred individ ua l s were k ept i n a state of beastly intoxication to enable those men to cam the price of their vote. (Hear, hear.) He would not trouble the , house with any statements about Hamilton, but state that, with regard to Airdrie, the burgh in which Mr. Baird lived, and which was mainly indebted for its in , creasing population to his immense iron works, it was worms than anything that could be charged against Falkirk. H would ask, was it no t th e duty of capitalists who empl o y e d numbers of the working clames—whether it wail not their duty to lead them into the paths of virtue and sebristy P (Hear, hear.) But he was sorry to say that the wealth and enormous influence of that gentleman's family had bceu exercised for a very different purpose. Helvetia mention but one case of bribery, although ten had been proved, in one of which the Provost was implicated, and in another the Inspector of Police. (Ileac, hear.) In Airdrie James Whit/and stated, that having six votes in his family II 4 „i