The Express. — London, England, 1848-07-07 00:00:00

the men Ty. Are you afraid of the people being seiversa to monarchical institutions? We constantly hear that the queen sits enthroned in the hearts of her suljects. (Hess, hear.) I have no such fears. I will tell you what I think the extension of the franchise will do. I seek no change in OW present tom of government. I say, once for all, Ood forbid that any change should take place in our form of government. (Hear, hear.) If it shoed be changed from the monarchical form, _I hope it may happen when I sin not here to witness it, because, if it does come, I am lure that the generation which will (Hear, by it will not be the genera° , which achieves it. hear.) I be lieve that tee p t ogle do not want such change, nor do I think that if they tithe the suffrage, with the wide t xtensieu of which I speak, y would altogether or evr n greatly change the claw of men from whom they choose their tepee sentattres. (Hear, hear.) Ido not think they need make any change in that respect. They would prnbably choose them from the easier and wealthier classes, as they do cow ; but tel sou what would be the result. I believe that the c h a nge propos. d by my hen. friend would bring the legislative and loth , pa the executive pewee more in harmony with the wants and wises of the pes.ple than they are at present. I believe that the people ' I mean those who would enjoy house . old suffrage, would advocate a severe economy in the gevermat tit. I ask, what are the two things which the wisest politic 1 economists and the greatest philosophers, when con sidering tee iisngers of the state, would describe as the pressing necessity of the d ? Would it not be a great re terachmeni hi the expenditure of the country, and a more equitable app ,rtionment of the national taxation? (Hear, heart Be teat 1 mean that you should have the texation largely ieruev d from toe ittilirect source. trim which it is at present levied —( heat, hearl—and me largely im. posed on restored property. (11.1 r, hear.) That, in icy opinion, is one of the greet wants of the day, and ,OP et the things which I think the peop:e would accompush -he moment they obtained till frit cht.e. The very instinct to; seltishneci would induce th:m to do so, and it is the very thing which is most wanted for the safety of the country. Now do not let any one misapprehend me. I de net mean to say that all the taxes should he levied upon property I would do no injustice to any one. I shoeld wash to relieve the taxation on consumable at ti-les, and to remove the ol srructiona of the customs and excise. I would relieve the duties on teas, wines, and odor important articles, and above all things r. move every excieem •ri from the lace of the land. This is what 1 beli:ve the selfish instincts of the people, it heir power was once flatly brought to bear on this house, would accomplish, and these are the objects which it is most dr eirable to have se tromplolied in this counuy. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, where is the danger of giving the people their fur suere ot political power ? We shall be told, as I have been told by the boa and learned gentleman below ,ta you would not settle the question by couceding hol me m hee h l t suilrage. I do not think y ei would, I do not think you would settle any question by legislation in this house. In the year 18/8 no body CON tell what another generation or anothr lianient may de; but will any one tell me the , Ifyou Mehl le within the franchise three or four millions of people it•stead of seven or eie et hundred thousand you will nut have gr atly conciliated the people, and have greatly sir ng hene I your instoutioes a:ainst whatever dis ellecimi may arise from those who remain without them. Neither in my of mion would the household test render the people more discontented than they are now. The hon. and learned member for Readieg dwelt on the household test as if it w. re a tt st of property, and in the next breath, with singular Ml laity, he taxed us with seeking to exclude men of property teem the tranchise. (lcer, hear.) It is your present t.st wlaA is a test of pt nperty, inasmuch as you say that a man must pay 101. of annual rent, or else have no vote. In the other case, we say that it a man pays poor rates he shall be entitled to vote, but that is not an exclusion on the ground of property, be cause it will practically exclude many rich mica living about in !edgier, and who may have neglected to obtain the 40a. freehold. Our scheme would exclude them while it would admit the poor tenant. There has been something said es to the way to which electoral districts should be made eat. I come to that now, altnouph it does not come next in PUCCPUi in, hut the h in. and learned gentlem in expended a great deal of his eloqueuce upon that point. When you ap proach this swim. ettermi .ed to deal with it in the cavilling spirit of a special pleader, grilled rather by mere words than by a broad view of its meaning, you may very 'wily raise prejudices against it. But as I understand my hon. triend the member for Montrose, he wishes for a fair apportionment of tte repress a tation tat the people. He does nut go for perallelograms or aquaria, to eeparate people unnecessarily frusa their neigh bours. 1 qui e agree wah him that it is not nee wary to do so. Any me who honestly wishes a fair apportionment may effect it without any violence or disruption. ( titer.) I must say th ,t I considu this questi a of the apportionment of menah PP by tar the mos. impartant question. (Hear, hear.) When you talk to me of fraachists, and ask me whe ther I will nave a man vote at twenty-one years of age, or require a tie or twelve mouthe'hounhuldr.sidenee, it appears to me that there is no principle oa which I can fall back to enable me te give a right answer to the question. The hon. and learned sr saber says that on the question of the suffrage Ido not steed oat natural right at all. I know of no na tural right. I have to vote for members of parliament. I have a legal ri.tht, of which six-sevenths of my fellow-citi sena are deprivsd, and I fuel a difficulty in proving that they should not hove it. (Hear, hear.) Ido not claim a natural right ; anti if I wished to cavil about universal suffrage I should amuse myself as I once did with s m in who was draw ing up the charter. He asked me to support the great principle, and I to return asked him why he excluded women who paid income tax, and might be culled on to serve as overseers of the pear ? He said, " I quite agree with you, and I was one of those who were outvoted on the question of giving women the franchise." I then raid, " You can understand me now when I tt ll you that, like yourself on the question of the women, I giv. - up prine.ple for the sake of expediency." But when 1 advert to the re.appartionment of members, then I have a prineip.e to deal with. I say that wh never fran chise you adopt the re-apportionment should take place on some pri, ciple. What principle then are you to select ? I will not take the principle of population, as I do not advocate universal suffrage, but I wt.' take the ground of properly. Bow have you apporti •ned your representati in accurtliug to property? We think the melte eat momerous, that when you look into it, there is not a man in this house, whatever his opinion may be, who will nut say that there is a necessity for altering she present system. Oa the last lama. non on ainch • his subject was discussed the h.m. member for Bucks alluded in playful terms to the representation of Manchester and Buckinghamshire, and was shocked at the idea of NI tnche-ster having seven representatives. Now I must frankly say, judging of the men they have sent from Martelnater, I should not only wish to sea seven but seven times seven such men coming into this house. (Hear, hear.) But I want to know on what principle the hnn. member :or Bucks is going to apportion the members of this house. I will take his own favourite county, Buckingham, and compare it wi h Manchester. The borough of Man chester is rated at en annual rental, for the relief of the poor, of upwards of 1.100,0 1 01., while the assessment of Buckine,- hamshire is 764 001. I gay nothing of the popu lation although I might put down Buckinehamohire at 170,000, and Maichester at 240,000 but I couliee my sell to prop rty . Buckinghemshire has eleven while Munches ter has on ly two members. (Hear, hear.) Now, bearing in mind that the a seasment for the poor in hlanchedtr does not include the value of machinery—l grant that the annual value of laid may represent a higher amount—but bearing in mind that in Manchester neither machiarry r reedited capital is nickeled in the rating, am I not justified in complaining ;het hlanchtster , with el nifile the property, has only rwo rwmbers while Buckinghamshire has eleven ? (Hear, hear.) And will the labourer in Bucks earning fr• m tine to ten shillings a week bear comparieen for a mom. ta with the skilled mechanic, earning double that sum ? I go further, this is not a question between Buckirgharn-and Manchester. If it were, I might ark why you should give mote piratical power to toe lower classes than to the middle and intelligent. If the latter had it, it might in some sort mitigate the evil. But when 1 t ton° to look into the representation of the hon. =crater for Buckingham's darling county, I find that it is not the representation of the middle or lower classes, but that est, n as to the eight borough members, they arc so apportioned as to give the power of returning them to cc rtain landowners, who sent their nominees to parliament ,• and when I show you that there is not one out of the whole 11 members returned by popular elate n, I risk what does it amount to (Heir, hear.) I will undertake to show you th t three individua l s in the county of Bu ckingham n ,minate the majority of its mem bers, and It can name them if I am called upon to do so. (llear ) And 1 ask what does such a system account to 1 Why it amounts to this, th • t not Beckinghamshire, but two or three riot land ia Buckinghamshire, have the power of sending m owners embers here to tax the people of Man chester. Hear ) Why is Manchester, with its mer chants and it, manuf.cturers, trading to and accumula ting wesith I ?Om all parts of the globe —why are they to be deprive , ' of their fair share in the representation of the country, simelseesecau.e they live in Manchester I—and when so deprte, it, why are they to be mocked and jeered at in this house, because they demand what they have a right to, and which they would not be it the people had ht ir fair share in the representation of the country, instead of the house being in a great measure filled by the nominees of a few wealthy landowners? (Hear, hear.) Take the case of the West Riding of Yorkshire. There is not a man here, lam sure, who will not ewe nt to the proposition which convicts us with a fair apportionment of the repreeeitetion, when he hears the facts. It is impossible but he must do no. (Hear, hear.) Now I treat thetas a distinct qu-etiun. I treat this as a gut stion of principle, and by that principle I stand—and you cannot resist it—tor it would be dike contrary to justice and common sense to do so. The population of the West Riling was 1,154,000, that of Wiltshire wets 250,000. The West Riding of Yerk shire is assessed to the poor-rate at 3,576,0001. as the annual rental. Wiltshire is assessed at an wand rental of 243,0001., or about one-thirteenth of that of the West Riding ; yet each returns eighteen members. (Hear, hear.) But when Igo into Wiltshire I find six of the boroughs there, according to " Dodd's Parliamentary Companion," openly, notoriously, and avow. dly under the influence of certain patrons who nominate the members. (Hear, hear.) And why are the people of the West Riding not to have the same power in the representation of the country in eroportion to their property and their numbers as those of Wiltshire ? (Hear.) According to a plan I have seen laid down it would appear that if the representation was rattly apportioned, the West Riding of Yorkshire would return 30 member., when it returns tow only 18. Bat is there any reason why we should conclude that our legislation would be worse because -he West Riding had 12 more representatives, or because some of those smaller boroughs to which I have alluded had less—(hear, hear)—would it be any disadvan• tags to the legislation of the country ? (Hear.) I say it is just that such a change should be made, and I say further tbat representation must be more fairly and equally nppertionid. (Cheers.) The question is not merely between the people of Wilts sod thole of the West Riding of Teetddre—it Is not whether the one should have more power ht the representation of the country or the other less, because the people of Wilts have not now the power. (Hear, hear.) Our object is to give more power in both uses—(hear, hear)—and to provide that whatever the number of representatives each shall have, the repre sentation shall be based en population and property. (Heir, hear.) We say to each, you shall have yeur feir share, and what you have shall be real ; your voice shall no longer be swamped by such little boroughs as Great Marlow and other similar placer., where one or two gentlemen send several members to parliament, and call that popular elecloo. We ray you shall be protected by the ballot, and your cou stituency shall no longer be open to thew improper influences Ito which it is now subject. (Hear, hear.) Something has been said as to Middlesex—that county has been very appro. riately referred to by the hon. member for Middlesex (Mr. Osborne). I find that Moldlescx is assessed to the poor rates ow an annual value of 7.5a4 0001. Dureetshire is assessed en an annual value of :00,0001. But each has 14 members —(hear, bear)—though the first has an annual rental et 7,000,0)01. and odd, and the other ot only 700,0001. —the amount of money collected for the relief o. the poor BR Middlesex bring as large within 101. SR the whole va!tie I athe property assessed in Dorsetshire, and yet both hove lie same number of reeresentatives. (Hear, hear.) I well say nothing of Lsmbetn or hlarylehone, with an assessment of 1,060.000(.,whieh is mon than two of your counties returning 13 membe rs; but will Rey one till me that the metropolis C. not entitled to be fairly represented. according to its pro perty ? The noble lord, on a former occasion, intimated ▪ me doubts as to giving as 1 age a number o' representatives to the metropolis as it weula be eon i led to under a fair system of representation apportioned according to property and po pulation. I was surprised to hear that statement tram tile noble lord, Ile might have quoted 81 a proof that the people of London may be solely trust,d with a larger franchis , , to the lull ex'ent of its lair pro:.oetion, the fact that he himself was returned by hops hold suffrage. (Heim, hear) \Vnere then ie the dang, r of giving the metropolis its fad share of political power I h eve ohs reed that in Austria in apportioning members under the new constitution it WWI prop oyel to give to Vienna a I erger number of repreweetwive. th in its share according to its population and property. on the ground that, as f eing the metropolis of the empi e, it was :setter able, from i.e great. r wealth and intelliAeuce, to emit cm the franchise properly. And, whatever may be said to the eontrary, I maintain that large cities, and the metro polis especially, are better qualified to exercise the right of voting than small towns and rural distriets, inasmuch as I believe the people of this metropolis are not only the most . catchy, but that they are the moat intelligent, and I will add, the meet industrious and hardest working people in Euros. Where, again I ash, is the danger ? Honouretne gentlemen, woen we talk of large constituencies having the power to return more members, seen, to think it s• for tne purpose of bring , tog mobs together and placing the p ewer in their hand.; but I think you make mobs at L-ondon elections by making your constituencies too large. Those constituencies arc, for the most part, as much too large as others are too small— ' t .ke, for exampie, the Tower Hamlets, with 'is constituency lot 13,500, or F insbury, with lei 13,000 electors—but if you take a tier apoortintiment of the metropolis and lay it oho ice I towns, apportioned according to its population, each to elect one me .i.ber, they would make a be tier cho.ce of repre sentatives than any other part of the klegdom. I do not say wo should have an increased number ot representatives. I think we have quite as many now u Iwe ought to have. (Hear, hear., But I mum° that whether you give a greeter number of representatives or I whether you continue the present number, you must give a larger number to those concitueneies which ate d.:tenmeished above others by their property and population, and this you must take from those where there is now an undue number of membe es in prop. rtioll to property. You comet dial esti*. 'acutely with the subject in any other wry. I have now dealt with the tram:lase, and I will proceed to refer to the ballot. by which I would guard its exer cise. Upon this point, however, I shall leave to dwell but very bristly, inaaonueh so it stands at the head of those questions most likely ti' be cirried. The ballot is at tbis moment the question which is the stronge-t in the house, and in the c!,•uutry, particularly with the farm& re and middle easser. (Hear, hear, and oh.) It is not farmers, I am sure, who say "Oh." (A lauele) They arc landlords. (hear, bear.) The farm-es are in favour ot the ballet, acid everybody: who knows the re el sentiments of the fa. mu. will tell you so. (Cheer., and "Oh I") lake Lincolnshire, the greatest agricultural county in Eagiand : aro not th , farmers in favour of the oaliot en Lincolnshire ? I say, then, that question stands first, and will certainly and speedily be carried. Why, the only argument which has been advanced against it is the ridiculous one that it is un-English. (Hear. hear.) But, so far from its being un-English, I will assert that there is more voting by b .llot in England than in all Europe besides. (Hear, bear.) We aro a country of insuranc so:Active railway companies, banking And other joint-stock companies, literary institutions, popular societies, infirmaries and hospitals, tell of which are governed on the popular prin ciple, and where the ballot is constantly brought into requi sition. (Hear.) And when we have men c ming here treat from the Carlton, with the sound of the ballot-box still ringing in their ear*, telling us that the ballot is un-Eagli-h (hear) ---and rhieldiog themselves from a passing frown from some neighbour by employing such a sophisticated and ab surd argument, to prevent the tenant being rotected, not hem the frown merely, but the vengeance, of his 1 enellord, I say it is downright hypocrisy. (Hear, hear.) Then with regard to the duration ot parliament—soe per sons think one year preterable to the. e. Perhaps— m and I throw this out merely as a suggestion—if you were to adopt the system followed in municipal elections, and allow one third of the members elected to go out every year, the par liament being elected for three years, it would remove the objecti rn on this head, and would afford the opportunity if testing the feeling of the country, and at tine same time avoid those shakes and convulsions whim all so much dread. An I now, in conclusion, allow me to say a word on a subject to whiet both the noble lord and the hon. ember tor Bucks referred. You complain that there are leagues and ammations cut of doors cn this subject. You c implain of this, and nt the same time you congtatulate yourselves on the great social advance* you have made: you glorify your selves that you have atolisbed the slave trade, and you exult at your achievements towards the total abolition of the punishment of death, forgetting that whatever you have clone to break down stay remnant of barbarism, has been done by associations of thus kind. And why is it ? Because since Manchester cannot have its fair share in the repre sentation of the country, it is obliged to orgauise a league, that its voice may he heard Omega the laud, and thus, by indirect means, have its voice heard in parliament. (Hear.. Do you want to get rid of this system of astitatiou—do you wish to deprive these leagues and awocia ions of ail p weer ? Then you must bring this hone rn. re in harmony with pleb lie op nion—rhear, hear)—you mutt give the people the meant of making themselves telt in this boos , . (Hear, hear.) Are you afraid of losOur by it ?—why, the reform yen have achieved, the reform to which I have alluded, are your means of safety as they are your glory and your exulta tion at the present moment. (Hear, hear.) But is it nut a must absurd anomaly to have a House of Commons repre senting by a fiction the feelings of the people, while, at the same time, the people are compelled to organiet them selves into leagues and nuociations to compel the House ot Commons to listen to their voice? (Hear.) Take the most absurd of all illustrations going on at the present moment—a league or associatien, a society formed in Liverpool, called t " Nati ma' Conlederation," at the head of which is the brother of the right bon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxturd, Mr. Gladstone, a gentleman of sufficiently conservative habits not to mix him self up with popular movements without great cause ; and what, let me ask, is the objeet of that society ? To effect a reform in our financial system, and accompli-h a reduction of our national expenditure—the very thing for which this house assembles—this house, which is, th en, lle, t an association, of the public purse. litre, we have an association, headed by a conservative, and formed for the express purpose of compelliug parliament to do that which it does not do—administer with economy and justice the public funds. Sir, it is not with a view to overturn our in stitutions that I advocate reform, but because I feel that reform is necessary from time to time; and I take the op portunity of advocating it in this legitimate way in order to avert the scenes which have occurred on the eontinent, and to prevent its bei g sought for by b syonets and muskets in the s treets. (Hear, hear.) It is because I a-n opposed to farce that I take the only alternative left, and I gay that the men of standing in this country and members of this house who now advocate this wis extension of the suffrage ore the real come rvators of the peace. (Cheers.) So long as you give the people an earnest of your desire to redress their grievances they will wait patiently ; and so long you have a guarantee for the safety of the country. My object in supporting this motion is t. bring to bear upon the legislature the e writer. and that Went which characterise the middle and industriousclawee, who, talk as you may of your aristocracy and your traditions, form the greatness and the glory of the c 'entry. the worst thing in the country is its trovernment, and that is made by your tradition and your aristocracy. Your literature, arts, commerce, and industrial enterprise, are to be traced to the middle and industrious classes; and it is be cause I wish to brine that leerature, that industry, and mat frugality which distingui-h those classes to bear upon this house, that I support the present motion. (Hear, hear.) Isle, intQuimicr conceived that the lion, member fur Middlesex, in snnourcing that the Re-firm Bill had been a failure in a financial point of view, argued against his Own proposition, in demanding another reiorm bill the former measure .had had the e ff ect of increarng the public expenditure, another meaeure of the same description might be expected to increase that expen• diture still more. He objected to this m. tion, not may as not productive of advent tee, but as positively detrimental ; it would give an immense stimulus to agitation. The popular feeling had been much ex eggerated; it was nothing like what prevailed in 1830. Tne present house, after neglecting its duty of guarding popular rights, and advising ministers, now sought to popularise itself by entering into the wild arena of political ?siltation. This was a sign of evil times. Disapproving of the motion, for the reasons he hod stated, he would move, as an amendment :—" That the ex perience we have already acquired has shown that the agita tion for reforms of our institutions has not obtained for Us the ends for which those reforms were desirable—namely, non-interference with the affairs of other nations, and reduc tion of expenditure at home." Mr. ANSTEY seconded the amendment, and Bali he cordially agreed in every word that had fallen from the hon. gentleman who had preceded him, except that, in the amend ment, he thought it would ho better to substitute the word " desired " for " desirable." The amendment having been put, Mr. L. KING supported the motion. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said it was an admitted fact that every new political party and every new political question went through a certain ordeal. First the leaders were laughed at, then scoffed at, then reviled, then persecuted, then their proposals were heard, then discussed, and after wards Irgielattd mt. This motion and its treatment by the Prime Minister of the crown gave him a guarantee that he and his brother chartists had not laboured in vain. The speech of the hon. member for Reading had been much bepraiaed. It had been called able, poetical, astounding, and utenishing—(a laugh)--but it seemed to nine to Lie a speech base" %man ismoranie of the question. Inc hon. member wanted education, but political rights must precede it. Eetratichise the people and igno !mace would become a crime • hut do not aeep the people in Ignorance and punish then, oecaum they were to. The lion member far eloetros said that this motion was the motion now Adopted by the maiiirity of the ROTIL tig classes of this count". He (Mr. O'Connor) 'herald he unworthy his place in parliament if he did not give the flattest denial to the et emcee The majority of the people were for the people's charter in all its integrity. lie ceutioned the member fur H •ntrose and the government how they ventured to post pone the larger comession which the people required. All teat had occurred in other countries hail occurred in rinse (pence of withholding the people's rights. Nevertheless, though it did not go ter enough, it was his intention to vote for the motion before them. He should do so, if on no other ground, at 'east upon the ground that it proposed to shorten the duration of par lateen's. He declared that, utter seeing how the time of the house was fridertil away, he should prefer minuet parliament+ without further chance, to univerud suffrage with a septennial parliament. Annual parliame. ts, universal suffrage, electoral lbstrims, pay meet of members, no property media ation—all these, bye ot the six ;saws of the people's charter, had been in t enter times feature+ in the constitution of these realms. Why were they net again to he recognised ? Al to the aid tattoo by which the peopl• sought to gain their legitinsa . e runs, the sic gatemen on the usitostertal bench, s eertatnly bad no right to mongol:lin of it, since it was precisely them selves, who in teener y ars, to gain their ends, had taught the people agitation, and set the es ample of the very clew of language which they now aeriounreil as Petite ius. Th ose gentlemen stood by the Reform Bill of 1832, that master which had wholly failed to fulfil the olnects wheel it was announced to effect. whose motto was" Peace, ltemenchmerte an I Reform," and the daddy' expectation trim which woo, high w ges. cheap food, end plenty to eloolmost as great a hibele as the " Liberty, Equality,Fratereity" jargon of our neighbours aer , so the chattier'. He himself brioneed to re ither party, to re ither faction in that Meese ; neither to the aristocracy fiction on that ride of the house, nor to the middle-class faction on toe other, the only difference between whom was, that the former had deceived the eremite onee, aline the better had deceived the people twice; he in louse cl to the part ru me n , people, and he would tell the house and the geve that unless th • just dam mil. of the people, of the working classes, wi re consetled before lone, govern• meet smile flail themselves all at once in the position of the late French goverumc lit. Rear, bear.) Not that this should he dons by a violent rev elution—Old (idled! be would heartily say, for he knew that the first shot fin el in such a contest would seal the doom of the working el user, who would thee he pigsliet here as they heel been in France. It was said that the working thesis+ were not Litt d for the trust of election's tie agar el conduet as a most mien tiul tent of qualification, and he should like to know what e mid have been more exemplary than hit been the conduct of the working Class,/ of Ragland stolid all the eels vaus miseries which they had puttered ter the last six year.. (liar, hear) He simnel vote for the hon. member's notion as better teen !iodine at all ; but he tr misty repudiated it as a at dimmed of the gees lion; and so long as aught of feeluence and energy reurined to him, that influence and that energy should be enthusiastically applied to the attainmeut of the great object ot his life—the p emit's charter. One class was set against onetime chess, in order to promote the oftieste n' a third par ty. 1h it species of tactic, was awe)a resorted to its politied struggles. The free traders ha 1 doer so. by setting the middle C . 14.10, grimiest the work ing clas•es. He would taSe that opportunity of saying to the hon. member tor Montrose., that when, on a former even. ing, he had taunted the hon. mem er with haying withdrawn his motion fur reform, and the hou. teemiser Inc the West Ridley her charged him wi'h ferocity in so d o ing, he did eat intend to make any harsh observa tion., seal he begged to express his regret if he had dole so, fur he Lever intended to show any ferecity towards the hon. member. But, in raying great he did on that occasion, the hon. meta -1 her for the West Riding hail oily Pursued the course to which he (Mr F. O'Connor) hied already referral, and had tiled to set the middle elasys suainst the working reassess, who were in favour of the chimer. Ile yodel now conclude, Gely observing that if it had not been the intention of the has. neemlwr to divide un his !within that erasing, he should have reserved what be had to say until he had heard the sentiments of all those who we're lii/1104C , 1 to speak on the question bsfore the homy. But ar it was for the advan rage of tire cause that the house should come to a division that evenieg he should content himself with stating that, es the prutectien party had adopted the cry of " Ni, surrender," an he would take his stiand upon the charter, and cry " The chaster, and no surrender." Mr. H. MILN ES should detain the house only a very few minute. whilst he stated his reasons for not supporting the new Reform Bid, at the same time that he war by no means opposed to reform. His obje. ton to the metien of the hon. memher for Montrose was the fundamental one that there haul b en no grounds yet sh evn for the new reterrn league, or fur the agitation which it proussed et create in the coun try. In all organic reforms two things were neeeseary to inquire into—the first, what are the evil, which it was a eight to remedy? The second, whether there was any great or general popular demaod fur that organic reform Now lie did not think that a sufficient case had been made out of great practical evila suffietent to show that such a re form as the one proposed was necessary. Whateeer might be said of the constitution of the house, he knew that in the ulnas de resort it did represent the people, and be believed there was no true demand fur a greater representation. It WAS true that a went preponlerwice was given to the aristocracy in that house; hut that pit panderance was hie, ly given—it was given he cause the 'tropic liked the aristocracy. There was no doubt the people of Englund loved a lord. There was no question that they pr, terrier having an aristocracy. Take the instance of the noble lords who sat in that house. Observe the hahittial deference which was poi Ito them. (Laughter and ir o nical cheers.) Bid any one ever see a lord put down in the: place ? (L tughter and hear ) Ile never did; and if people would pi teed In giving such privileges to the aristocracy, they had no right in that helve to complain of the et istocratic elements which it con tained. For all the reasons he had stated he should not vote for the resolutions of the hon. meinher far Montrose ; nor did he think they were called foe. But he certainly did ad mit that the recent events of the continent of Eu opa might leave tree' of their occurrence in Ens/hind ; and theft if in France, I:simony, and Italy a share of political pawi r was given to every man, he could not deny that au echo of those I vents wield teemed throughout the lend, and that they must be prepared to meet the demand, and to accede in some measure to the cry that would be sent forth for rucreestel political privileges en the part of the people. Mr. S. HERBERT, who spoke in a very low tone of voice, said th it he was n It about to trouble the house with a very 1r ngthv speech. His only e mein for making any ob servation, was his anxiety to show that in the vote he was about to give he war actuate" by very dill . . rent motives and held different opinions from many wi h whom he would retire into the lobby. lle was not one of these who believed that the present system of representation was perfect, or that there were not instal points in which it might be amended. (Hear, hear ) But it was not neces sary to go deeply into that part of the subject, because it had been already most clearly, wisely, and ably elucidated by the nohle lord at the hesd of th ; government. He had beard with great pleasure that noble lord give up the doctrine o finality in beislation. (Cheers.) He (Mr Herbert) was one of these who regretted that when the representation was altered the mileage was diminished. lie feared it had been too much the habit to confound means with iinds, and to argue sail theobjectsie treeinstitutions were tepee the people ere es, not to Menial for them good government, whereas the former was only an incident, the istter the real object and end ot such ins itutions. He thought they were bound to ask themselves whether they had that system of I.ghration a hick was moot capable of carrying on the government of the country ; and secondly, whether their legislation was much as to carry with it the sympathy of the great body ot the people. lie regretted the abolition of many tranchiees which hod existed tiefore the Reform Biil ; fur instance, he regretted what was call' d the poterelloping qualification. heiheoses sented, as He thoug het it desirable that those el isms should r prebelieved that amene other gaud thitess it Iseult go far to cure them of their hero worship. IThe power of sending a man to parliament would cure the working classes of the habit of forming inordinate expectation., and their representatives of the equally mischievous habit of making fallacious promises. ( Bear, hear.) He wondered whether tho hon. member near him, when he went back to his constituents in Nottingham, after bevel been no long in the immediate proximity to the Thames without setting it on fire, as he had promised—(a laugh)—would he able to give his constitute. is a satisfactory account of his beckslidinge He would most likely find that a more difficult task than telling an excited people whet he would do it he only were in parliament. (Laughter.) There was one point connected with this moti in welch had not been touched on before, but which, in kis opinion, should not be overlooke I—namely, the effects which the introduc tion of similar measures had produced in neighbouring countries. The hon. member for Montrose had said that England, which hail been formerly in the von of all cons tries in the adoption of free institutions, was in the rear; and the noble lord at the head of the government had site great wisdom said in reply to that " wait for the remit." (Cheers ) New, without waiting long, he would call the attention of the house to a few of the effects which such measures had already produced in France. The hon. member for the West Riding had said that the great object of extending the franchise would be to reduce the expenses. Had that been the effect in Paris ? They had increased their army by 30,000 men, besides 320,000 nation il guards. They had, in fact, under that peaceful emeriti° government the greatest amount of men in arms that had:ever been known in the time of Har peace. Had democrat c government diminished jabbing ? (e, hear.) There were the ateliers nationaux, which were neither more nor Lim than sinecure situations for 100,000 men. (Hear, hear.) There had been, no doubt, 'sinecures uefore the re volution, but nothing like the enormous job of the ateliers. The bon.member for Middlesex had spoken of family compacts, and c enplsined of the number of appointments divided among persons rather curiously and inconveniently related together. (Laughter.) But things were much worse in Paris. He had seen it stated that the editor ot the National, M. Manias; with his printers and publishers, divided amongst them public emoluments to the amount of 40,0001. (Hear, hear.) Now, in England, where the domestic feel ings were strongest, they would prefer that persons bound together by the recognised ties of family should enjoy the good things ratheethan that they should be scattered amongst issuers, wholly unfit through the interest of some party above them. (A laugh.) He might ask the hon. member whether he liked the manner in which the secret service money had been die posed of by • democratic government? (Hear, hear.) Whether its disposal had net given grounds for sue• petting the most eminent men in the eountry of that meanest of all crimes, pecuniary peculation? (Hear, hem.) Then, for the liberty of the subject, that had been soon asserted by carrying off the commander of the national guards. He might mention many other instances to show that experi ments, such as the hon. member for Middlesex proposed, did nut always lead to the results expected. (Hear, hear.) Then there was Prussia—a country in which, if intellectual cultivation were to be token as a standard, the people were infinitely superior ti the people of England. tine of the changes there effected by the introduction of de mocratic principles was the payment of members, and the consequence had been that the legislative body was rapidly losing all respect in the eyes of the people. (Hear, hem.) They amused themells et in criticising the dress of their repre sentatives, and making proposals that they should be paid by teekwork, in order that they might get through their work 1.0071er. They were to be paid, it appeared, by the job, ac cording to the number of hills, and no memb r was to spesk against time for the sotto of his 7s. Gil. a d,.y. A ist h.) Ho wes proud to are oho tranquillity of tide country, knowing as he did, that there were CSIMI of disturhance in this country as great as any that had exploded in France. He hod great hopes of the ctuntry, but nut from the memeare proposed by the hon. member fur Montrose. U 0 looked for improvement from that house sitting icicle seriously to consult the wants and veml.es of the country, and from its remedying those defects and alimes in its own constitution which recent election pentium had rendered so painfully apparent. lie should merely further my, that hie object in rising had been to ex pain that in giving his vote 'grins. the present motion, he was not recording his opinion absolutely in favour of our legi lative system as it now existed. • Lord D. ST CAR r, who spoke Emil frequent calls for a dinsioe, observed that the principle of linali•y could no loctom. be maintained, for all partied now admitted that some ref /rm was absolutely necessary. " Coming events Cain their shadows before," and this agreement of parties of oppo site mews and opposite pr eciples foreshadowed a speedy measure of reform, based up n, the model demanded by the popular voice. The hon. geteuematt who last spoke had, referring to the opinion of some other party, said that it the people were really so anxious for reform. oho demand tor it would he more general. Upon this ?oiat. as represemiag a large metropolitan cinstituency, who took. • dap iaterest iu this question, he must be allowed to snake a few remarks. The question was, whether the people of this country did really & al met such a measure as coat brought forward by the hon. member for Montrose, and whether such a En , ours would be of advantage to the country, if conceded. He th• u tilt no one who had observed the suet+ passing sround him could dispute the first proposi tion. (Hear, Rear.) The noble lord (J. Ituste.l) had denied the definition given by his la n. friend (Mr. Hume) of the rights of the people ; he had denied that the suffrage was the right of every Englishman; but he said that the people had a rieht to tile best possible government, and the bst visible system of representation. That was a &Elul t ont which meant nothing at all—for one man might think a let qua:lli:anon, with the nub' lord at the head of the minestry, was the best system of goverument, while another might say that the charter anti the he...tumble member fur Nottingham as the First Lotd of the Treasury would be tee best government. (" Hear," and a laugh.) lie had c..rtaiitly not expected such a definition from a stat amen won hail, on a former occasion, 'toted that the libereies of England were tounsed on the general consent of all, and must rem tin on that loads or mom to exist. (Cheers.) But ithout elfirreing the right of every man to use franchise, it must be admit eel that the principle of the British constitu tion was to extend the basis of representation as widely as p ssible, and to place a limit on it• exercise only when the safety of the state required it. lie wan deliirded to find that the reform bill had does @tine stood—he a:v ore tnenght .t. would.although not • Der met measure. Let them then go on. (Much interruption, cre of " divide.") lie Witt opposed to finality and in favour of gradual erogrem, that the couetry might ob.ain a further reduction ad ',Latium (" Hear, beer," and renewed era's of divide.") lie was therefore for an extension of the suffrage and triennial parliaments. Thera might be mom difficulty in arranging the question of electoral districts; but then teas resolution did not commit hon. members to any particular form, as it only aimed for more equal elec toral discrete. (Cries of "oh, oh.") lie held it to be Onportant that that house should be in harmony watts the feelings of the pemle. They had often shown their attachment to thu institutions of the country, tied certainly if ever there was a time in our history when they ought to be trusted it was the present ; for, while revolutions, anarchy, stud coefusion were going on in almost every country in the world, all classes of the Eng lish people were pray-ntinganexuaple of order, forbearance, and public virtue, which posterity would admire, and which lie thought that holm., ouglot to reward, by granting their just demands. (Cheer*, and loud cries tar a division.) Mr. MC NTZ denied that the imitation tor reform was, as alleged, a nursed agitation, and neither spontaneous or natu ral, It was said to t it ought to come tram the newt... and not be tent to them; and so he believed it did. He „elite s:4 the proposition of his hon. friend the member for Montrose to he sound, just, and right in prie.ciple, mud he ehould give it Li. must cordial support. (Hear, hear, and loud cries of " Divide.") Mr. NE WDEGATE rase, but was met by loud and gene ral demands fur • dirisious which continued during the whole time the hon. menthe r essayed to make himself heard. Mr. VILLIERS said he did not intend at that hour of the night to ataud up to follow the hon. member (Mr. Newac gam) on questions which were really not before the house, but he wi , hed shortly to state the reasons which induced him to vote for ;he propeeitien et his hon. friend the member for Montrose, even though ho did not agree in some of tee t, ems in which the resolution was couched. He (Mr. Villiers) simply voted for the motion because he thought it recognised the policy of widenin , the basis of the representative system, and because it proposed to give some protection to the voter when he obtained tic suffrage. He thought it wise to re cognise that policy, but. he at the same time thought the ex tension ought to be grie'u,d, and that great caution ought to he exercised in the mode in which it was effected. He must remark that he old not believe that legislation would be very different from what it was et present, even if the suf frage was extended ; end with all respect for the Reform Act, he did not think it had made any alteration is the legible. then which had been adopted. De believed that as now constituted the house would not resist anything honestly desited i,y the country. Sall that was no reason for refu sing an exteneio , of the suffrage when demanded by the people, and he thought an.extenbion so demanded would, if . rented, iherease the confidenice of the people io the legisla tints which should follow. (Hear, hear.) One great failure was that the pr ipisition contained no remedy for bribery and intimidation except the adoption of the ballot. Now an extension of the suffrage without protection to the voter would only tend to degrade and demoralise him. It was • mistake to suia,oee that tyranny pre vailed only among the farmers—it pervaded all classes, and aiding no class more so than the constituen cies of large t mote ; indeed, there it was universal. The tact that at the last election nit less than a quarter of 'a million of elec , ors on the rt gister did not vote, showed that the franchise was a curse instead hf a blessing. The ballot WAS suggested as the remedy ; but with the difference of opinion which existed on that plan, he regretted that his hon. fiend hod not brought it forward as a beparate and dietetic'. question. (Hear, hear.) The amendment having been withdrawn. Mr. HUME replied. As many hon. members were now present who had not heard his original statement, he begged to repeat what his proposition really was. lie c inteddeel that this house of parliament ought to represent the whole community, and that it did not do so. He contended further that ne man ou'ait to be taxed without authorising, either by himself or his representative, such taxation. There w, re hear millions of men of full age at present excluded from that privilege, and who had no power in making the laws which affected their property or t'.eir liber ties, and hence they were little better than slaves. Another point to which he had called attention was this. The representation was most unequally divided, and bore no proportion whatever to the property of the country ; fur seven or eight very small boroughs sent as many members no to overrule the whole representation of London, Liverpool, and Edinburgh. There would be no difficulty whatever in removing thin inequality, if the house would give him leave to introduce his bill. He ask , d the house to agree to this motion as a matter of right ; all the people were entitled by the constitution to a voice in the choice of their representa tives. Th - e was a representative government, and every man of mature age ought to be represented in the Same way. At present, four millions were ex cluded, and the consequence was discontent and dissatis faction, and the basis of the government was not secure. He proposed this as a measure of peace, and to prevent evil consequences. (Hear, hear.) lie had been asked to con eider what was passing in France ; and it was the amide:ea tem of that whicn made him desirous that England never should be subjected to such proceedings. (Hear, hear.) If the people were denied this right, they were injured ; if injured, they became discontent , d; and with so many mil lions discontented. the country was not safe. Was it not a scandal to this country that, within the last few months, one half the population had had to be called out to keep down the other halt, who only sought a share in that political in fluence which they had a right to enjoy i lie demanded this as a matter of right; as a matter of justice and policy the house ought to grant it. It was their own inte rest to do so; for none were so much interested as those who had property to take care of. (Hear.) The peace of the country could not he secured while such an extent of injus tice continued. Ile considered that no answer had been given to the arguments by which he had supported the mo tion ; he would therefore ask the house to divide, and let the country judge hereafter of the result. (Hear, hear.) The house divided—For the motion Against 351-267 LIFE ASSURANCE. On the motion of Mr. W. FAGAN, leave was given to bring in a bill to make lite policies of assurance assignable at law. The bill was read a first time. The house adjourned at 1 o'clock. FURNITURE BROKERS' BENEVOLENT INSTITUTION. —The ninth anniverury dinner of this institution was hAd at the Freemasons' Tavern, G. E. Shuttleworth, Jun., Esq., in the chair. Several of the principal auctioneers were pre sent on the occasion, together with most of the leading members of the trade. The usual loyal and pataiotic touts having been appropriately introduced by Ch erima, and responded to by the company, the treasur, Mr. Winter, proceeded to lay before the assembly the affairs ot the insti tution, which appear in a flourishing state, upwards of 1,2001. being invested in government securities to the credit of the institution. TIM'S annuitants receive the bounty of the subscr.bers, to the amount of 151. each, which the interest on the invested fund is sufficient to defray. THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 7, 1848. Zfte enrols. MILLS. The mails for British North America, end the United State. will be made up en the evening of the 14th July. The West India Made, excluding Bermuda, Naman, Ilarenna. Madura., New Orleans, Vera Crux, Tampico, and Porto Rico, aod including those for Madeira, Jacracl, Carthagen 1, Banta Martha, Charms, Panama, Wept Cosa of South America, end St- Juan'tte - Nicaragua, will be made up on the evening of the 17th July. The uniilP for Vigo, Oporto, Lisbon, Madeira, Cad* and Gibraltar wilt be made up on the inornine of the 17th July. The overland mail. lot Gibraltar, Malta, Greece, the tee= Wands, Egypt, Aden, Ceylon, India, long-Kong, arid China, via bouthampt ton, will be made up on the morning of the 20th July. The overland eloped mails, eta alamilles, to the Mediterranean, Egypt, Aden, CRikle. India, liong-kong, tee., will he made up on the evening of the 24th July. $ t Tne malls for New South Wales, Van Diemen'a Land, and New Zealand will be made up on the evening of the Stet July. The mails tor the West Gait of Africa and Madeira will he made cap en the evening of the a let July. The mails for the Brasile, tie it?ver Plate, Monte Video, Pernam buco, Bahia, Madeira, and Burma Ayres, will be made up on the , evening of we 4th August. NOTICE TO ADVE .ons Ens. The number of STAMPS issuel by the authorities of the •Aamo-othee, during 1847, to the DAILY NEWS wen 3.447.009 This, we biliaTO, is within ei7At per cent. of the number hinted to the Morning, Heroin, Morning Chronicle, ant Itorni” Pali, ALL ?LT TUOtT11‘:11. In addition to the above, issued to the DAILY NEWS, Morning Yoder, there were issued for the Event's', Edition. TILE EXPRESS 773.714 Which was more, we believe, than were issued either to the Globe or Sdand4rd, Eveuire Papers. MOW WATER A? LON 00,1 INIDOIL or 6. Aftwomen r &4.. past A. Twit —Monks& b—. paw ; A 77 curtail the length and improve the quality of their speeches. Such was the answer that the representa tive of the PEEL party gave to the glaring and damn ing facts that Mr. CoBDEN exposed. Truly, the aristocratic parties of parliament aro leagued. Lord JOUR RUSSELL and Sir ROBERT PEEL sat together for an hour in amicable converse. The reformers, however, had still an imposing minority of 84 votes against 331. It is a capital comme , cement of the snow-ball, which shall roll, please God, till it has attained a volume large enough to overcome resistance in the one house, and in the other. THE Chartist demorstrations were very amusing and exci ing in their day, and gave great cause of glorification to tho prominent personages on both sides—to Mr. FEARGUS O'Coerunt and Mr. Fessett, to the special coustablce, and the Horne-office. The time has now come round for pay ing the bill incurred by those festive days, and the wry laces and disagree abilities caused thereby are very serious and very paiufuL It colt Mr. O'CoNNOR over 701. in hard Lash to pay the expenses incurred by the National Convention ; and, per contra,the parish of Msr3 lebone is mulcted to the tune of some six thousand pounds, to order a new set of police waiters to attend at the next insurrection fete. 'rho special constables of Marylebone gathered round Sir GEORGE GREY, much in the humour that his hounds force took to smelling Acisos. Sir GEORGE called the special constables to hetp him in his extremity, and he afterwards thanked most fer vently the special constables for so doing. There was even a tale of paying them, either with a monu ment or a breakfast, but the 'oenevolent and patriotic not being able to agree as to which would be most fit, the special constables were left to the grati tude of Sir GEORGE GRAN. The minheer has rewarded them, not by thanking tho constables, but by taxing them—not by a demand for a repetitien of their valuable services, but for money to dispense with them, in order to swell the already large army of metropolitan police. We must protest against these tendencies and their policy altogether. Tne E n glish government has gone on gradually in Ireland from a mall and a locally paid police force to a regular and immense police army, paid out of the public trea sury. Let there be more troubles in Europe, more distress in trade, more insolent refusal of rerurm, and whilst the English mob grows to i nit ate the French in boldness and disaffection, tho English government will follow in the steps of the Freuch and continental regime of keeping peace by means of a gensilarmerie. We must protest against this. We have quite enou.th of policemen. We meet them at every turn. And although they de much useful duty, they also do much that is supererogatory and tyrannical, much to create a feeling ca rancour betweee them and the lower clas.es of the population. The tranquillity of no country has been preserved exclusively by police. Could it hue been so the governments of Vienna and Berlin would have been immortal, If disaffected ma-ses really collect in our cities they must be put down by other forces than the police. Five thousand or ten thousand police will not suffice, without the cit i zens and the military aiding the rrt. We see, therefore, no justice or reason in augmenting the standing army ; for once enrolled, the policemen cannot, and, indeed, oui;ht not to be turned oil. It is quite useless reducing military estimates if the parishes arc to be crushed with police estimates ; and, above all, if a minister is to come down and make one pariah pay for twenty, because, forsooth, he has no law or pee er to make the other nineteen pay for the augmentation of force which ho thinks tit to LONDON. FRIDAY. JULY '7. In the HOUSE OF COMMONS last night the ques tion for resuming the debate on parliamentary reform, Mr. lluatE expressed his hope that the house would divide that night, and that hon. gentlemen would regulate their speeches accordingly. Mr. B. OSBORNE was the first speaker iu favour of the m otion, and was followed on the lame side by Mr. COBDEN, Mr. LUCKE KING, Mr. F. O'CONNOR, LORD D. STUART, Mr. MUNTZ, and Mr. VILLIERS.—Th..! speakers in opposition to the motion were Mr. Ser jeant TALIOURD, Mr. URQUHART, who moved the following amendment, seconded by M. ANSTEY, that the expel ience they had already acquired had shown that the agitation for reforming their institutions had not obtained for them th e ends for which those re forms were desirable, namely, non-interference with the affairs of other nations, and a reduction of the exrendituro at home.—Mr. M. MILNEs, Mr. S. HER BERT, and Mr. NEWDEGATE. Mr. URQUHART having withdrawn his amendment, Mr. HUME replied, and the house divided, when the motion was negatived by a majority of 267, the numbers 331 to 83, and the house adjourned. BrivG net much given to write panegyrics upon those Kith whom we agree, and knowing it idle to repeat, or dila'e on, arguments fully and ably ex pres,cil by the speakers themselvts, we generally prefer, in treating of a debate, to grapple with, and commt tat upon, the reasonings of antagonists. It world be difficult, hems - et', to follow such rule with respect to the debate of last night ; for, although two of the most powerful and persuasive speeches we ever heard were uttered by the members for Middle sex and the West Hiding, we could find nothing opposed to them but the most vaporous, the most wordy, the most nonsensical attempts at eloquence that t v.'. baulked an attentive house, and an anxious public. AP Never was a night's &bate more brilliantly opened. Mr. OSBORNE has made good speeches ; but we own we did not think him capable of such an achievement as answering Mr. DISRAELI with a force of argument and a keenni ss of wit fully equal to that of the member for Buckinghamshire. It `lr. DISRAELI speaks like a man of the world who is a thinker anti scholar as well as politician, Mr. Osnort S E spoke as a man of the world who has been a soldier, and with fullness of information; but his sallies against the whigs, and his comic illustrations of the Family Compact, were an example of what cruel blows may be dealt wit!teut passing the limits of eith:r good - - create. Whilst we thus think the complaints of Maryle bone i xtremely well founded, we must say that one of the: remedies they propose 'alike's us as an aggia ration of the ill. Some of these say to the govern ment, augment the metropolitan polico as niit , :h as you wish, provided you make tho nation at large, not the metropolis, pay for it. We must protest against this plan of centralisation, this assimilation of London to the state of Ireland. where Join BULL pays for all the police, wrere eu keeps sr-.e 40,000 men besides, and where 'lnas w . some weeks back lot :••- --mteressing an T!•ti jPeal tar ion '7IW: x:ready. :e tr.e tro mu-h of a mi.itary instead of ne in a .3Clt to' cc ; t the .i2 - , - .et. ,- .ltarc as vi.eu:nt ee scrio. ir• we may make up an account for a police bulget to rival those or the army and navy. insurrections and popu lar di monstrations are certainly Chary Intses, which swallow up property and prosperity; but tet us take care in avoiding them not to break upon the Scylla of the police, by keeping too closely and too exclusively to a course by which the freest European monarchies of our time hare perished. 'We may ask, before we conclude, whether Sir GEORGE GREY has not outstepped the limits assigned him by law, for the extension of the police force. Ac cording to the statute, the rate for this purpose cannot exceed Sd. in the pound. If poor's rates and polico rates are to be levied according to governm nt ideas of the necessity. a year of trouble and distress will prove to England what M. LOUIS BLANC'S system threatened to prove to France—a complete confiscation of the property of the middle class. humorx or politeness. Ares . Mr, next came the ecnius of peciiv, wzc in tarn Wif• taken to te.fe. * a? the zeniiis e ile 4- Mt%l io zerjeast 'OW 11 a • ' , ": 84. %Sae . . Moisten% and Mr. STONEY HERBERT, he p-eferred the political emancipation of the very lows at and po ti cal class to that of the more industrious artisan. The learned aerjeant'a sympathy for bachelors, too, was intense; but for the daily earner, who was immoral enough to get married and have children, the mem ber for Itcadirg expressed as much abhorrence as Miss MARTINEAU. Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR, in his speech, re proactled the leaguers with having worked the iro.ellectual portion of the artisan class against the ignorant or chartist class. We must own we should never have hit upon these distinctions. Mr. O'Cosson lamented the victory of the intellectuals, and so apparently did Mr. SYDNEY II esteF.liT, with whom the greatest evil of the Reform Bill was the destruction of the class of potwallopers, whom he loved to FCC indulging in CARLYLE'S theory of . hero-worship r Such were some of the reasonings brought forward in the House of Commons against reform, the ur gency, and justice, and fairness of which were put forward by Mr. COBDEN with statements so sim p le, PA.HIS, THAMSDAY, 11 AM. yet so forcible, and were made to flow from facts so After I closed my despatches last evening one of , plain and so home to every one's knowledge and ex- those exhaordinary scenes of uproar and tumult so perience, that, as be well said, the present distribu- frequent in the assembly took place, the occasion of Lion of electoral rights was utterly impossible to be which was the proposition of the reduction of the &fended or maintained for any length of time. nominal amount in a grant demanded fur schoolinas- The truth of the comparison between Manchester and term M. Carrot seized this occasion to de fend his Buckinghamshire was acknowledged by the solemn system of administration so violently attacked. He silence of the protectionists. The far superior endeavoured to explain those circulars to the electors w.ight in the constitution of the Wilt-hireman over which excited swat general indignation. He dis the Yorkahireman was equally felt ; whilst the suprc- avowed being an advocate for returning ignorant le macy in both cases was exercised, not by the farmer gislatore, but confessed that he desired to have eeen in of either Wiltshire or Buckinghamshire, but by half-a- the assembly a greater proportion of the rural pope , dozen of the aristocracy in the one case, and by three lation of France and a far less number of the ieha members of that privileged class in the other county. bitants of cities. A debate, or rather violent alterca- If Serjeant TALFOURD was a vaporous advocate of tiun, took plsc4 before the division, of which it is the aristocracy, Messrs. URQUHART and ANSTEY, who totally impossible to give any adequate description. took up nearly two hours of the debate, were utterly Tae screaming of M. Clement Thomas and the bellow unintelligible. The veriest Bedlamite that ever ing of M. Flocon, attempting to make themselves raved would have talked more to the purpose. heard above the roar of the chamber; the dinging of And Mr. FEARGUS O'Cossost was equally recondite; the president's bell ; the outrageous gesticulations of the member for Nottingham, however, slid with fore- some members; the rushing of others round the tri sight, that as Lord Juns Russets, had spoken for bune, and the supplication of others to the president the tory side of the house on this question, he felt to put on his hat, presented a most extraordinary convinced that Sir Homier PEEL, or one of his scene. The issue of the whole was that the measure friends, would favour them with a speech on the of reduction was carried by a majority of 311 against whig side. 303. And so it happened. For Mr. SYDNEY HERBERT In the bureaux yesterday the question of the ex did rise to pooh-pooh reform, yet patronise it, with propriatien of the railways was again brought for the most contemptuous and kindly air imaginable. ward, and the Minister of Finance was strongly urged We expected that Mr. Hemmer, when he congra- to declare explicitly whether or not the proposed ex tulated Lord JOHN upon giving up finality, would propriation was definitively abandoned or only post go on to expound a little reform of PEEL invention. pored. The answer of the minister implied that the BA no-10s sole reform was confined to regrets tor, state maintained the right of expropriation, but only and possible resuscitation of, the potwallopers, who intended to exercise it with the acepiescence of the might be allowed, here and there, to send specimens of companies ; in fact, it is intend .d to expropriate the the heroes whom the working classes worship to parlia- railways, or such of them as may be surrendered by ment, butevidently not for influence, but fur show. lie the companies to the state on terms mutually an would have a COBBETT or anO'Cossioa in parliament, ceded to. as rare birds, to vary the menagerie, of which the The committee of war have agreel to recommend majority should still be the legitimate collection of that an army of 50,000 men shall be assembled and peacocks and lions, birds of vanity, and beasts of maintained around Paris. prey. Tee funeral cortege of the victims fallen in defence And then Mr. HERBERT took it for granted that of public order in the late insurrection takes place reform meant nothing but the actual revolution this morning. According to the programme officially which it is intended to prevent , and that t h e state of p ublished it was to follow the line of the Boulevards London, after the passing of Mr. Humes motion,would from the Madeleine to the Bastille, where the remains be no other than that of Paris after the barricades. were to be deposited in the vaults beneath the column. He typified what personal liberty would be in Eng. A change in these. arrangements was, however, mid land after reform by a story of bow the Provisional denly and unexpectedly announced yesterday. The Government of Paris had served M. DEGIRARDIN and President of the Assembly stated that the vaults M. THOMAS ; and he attempted to turn away the under the column not being prepared for acens.tion of whig nepotism , by representing the the reception of the bodies, the cortege would friends of M. MARRAST Ahe Yedarieter of the National, term inate at the Madeleine, which was equi as monopolising places to the amount of 40,0001. a valent t 3 saying there would be no cortege at all, year. NI. MARRAST and his collateorateurs are men of inasmuch as the funeral service is celebrated on the talent, who have done the greatest service to the cause P lace de la Concorde imur.diately in front of the of order, and rendered value to the comm nwealth not church of the Madeleine. to be measured in money. Can Mr. SYDNEY HER- Some of the journals this morning say that the real BERT say the same of the TOMNODDIES that Mr. cause of the change has been the unwillingness of the OSBORNE pointed at ? government to introduce the processi3u in the midst Lord JOHN'S substitute for reform in guilds and of the population over who. ..I._ , ictory has been savings banks depositors was lame enough, but it gained. But this is not the co . t 1 lil yesterday this was not quite so lame as that of Sir ROBERT PEEL'S funeral ceremony was 'Mende/ te -rm one of the most aide-de-camp, who merely begged the present mem- ' striking demonstrations of publ ic opinion in favour of bars of the House of Commons to be better boys, to order and of the vast military force by which that MN Sir JOHN HANMER'S bill and prove opinion is supported that ever was witnessed in this their horror of bribery, to leave o ff quarrelling with Or any other capital ; great expense was incurred for end bespattering each other, and, at the same time, to this purpose, and vast preparations made along the FRANCE. 0