The Express. — London, England, 1852-12-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAY, DEC. 9. The Loan ERANCILLOR took his seat at fee o'clock. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. The Earl of CLANCARTY trusted the noble earl et the band of the government would allow him to lost • gustation to him as to • petition which was presented from the peer tryterian body in Ireland in the early part of the week, ingression a hope that no alteririon would be made in the present system of national school education in Ireland; and noble earl wen then reported to have stated that it was not in the contemplatiot of the government to make any change in that system. It was strongly felt by a large body of persons in Ireland that some change was necessary, and he might with confidence *ay that of the established 'botch four-fifths were disinclined to co-operate in that system. Ile wished to know whether the noble earl's reply had been correctly reported ? The Earl of DERBY—It gives me greet satisfaction to have an opportunity one* again of answering an iogoiry from my noble friend behind me, whose long absence from this house has been • matter of regret. If he bad been kere • few days ago he would have 'heard the decided an swer which I gave to • question which was put to me by • noble earl on the other side of the house, and which was that, having looked into this question, ter ther with my noble friend, the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland,with an anxious desire to meet the conscientious ob jections of those who differed from the 'listing system of education, we were unable to see our way to any measure that would attain their object without endangering the entire destruction of the present system, which I consider would he • very treat evil; end, consequently, the govern ment were not prepared to bring forward any measure for the alteration of the existing system. (Hear, hear.) If my noble friend intends to ask for an inquiry into the working of the system, and such an inquiry is asked for, either in this or the other house of parliament by • considerable number of your lordships, or of the members of the other house, I snail have no objection to grant • committee. And 1 think some advantage might be derived from the fullest information being afforded of the prettied working of the system in all its details. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FaiDAT, DEC. 3. TheSraasza took the chair et 4 o'clock. PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITIONS PRESENTED. SALARIES.—By Mr. WILLIAMS, from Lambeth, pray ing for reduction in the Warier of public officers. Situates.? et/CATS (SCOTLAND). —By an lion. Max ima, praying that jurisdiction of sheriffs' courts be ex tended to sums Dot exceeding SOL TAILS ON KNOWLEDGE.—By Sir E. FILMER, from certain newspaper proprietor', praying for reduction of advertisement duty. Lord D. STUART, from Marylebone, against all similar taxes. Sterna.—lly Mr. F. MACKENZIE, from West India Association of Liverpool, in favour of differential duties, and praying that the slave trade might be treated as piracy. NEM ZEALAND.—By Mr. GLADSTONE, from New Ul.tcr, complaining of conduct of New Zealand Company. INCOME TAI.—.By Mr. GOULBURN, from clergymen of diocese of Lincoln, praying for more equal distribution of income tax. Latex:emu Etteriox.—By Mr. COBDEN, from elec tors of Leicester, in favour of return of Sir J. Walmsley. CLARE ELECTION. The SPEAKER informed the holm that he had received a letter from the agents to the Clare County election peti tion. informing him that the petition wo ad not be pro eceileil with. YARMOUTH ELECTION. Mr. M. GIBSON pretested a petition from W. T. M'Cullagh, Esq., complaining that the recognissnees to the Yarmouth election petition had been refused, although similar to others which had been previously accepted. Tee right hon. member gave notice that on Monday he would move that this petition be printed with the votes, with a view to calling the house's attention to the conflicting deci sions of *samisen of recogniaances. RAILWAYS. _ _ Mr. HENLEY renewed, with an apology for previous absence. his motion for a committee on railways.—Monday THE EXHIBITION COMMISSIONERS. ..... Lord SEYMOUR, understanding that to Commis sioners of the late Exhibition had pardoned weds lends at Knightsbridge, hoped that govelsoned mold be pre pared to lay on the table such plans of the Moe 40 would enable the house to form a eleer judgment posomndog any project that might be submitted to their cosolioinos. Lord J. MANNERS had no such plan at t, but supposed it would be prepared in due time and Mil on the table. BARRACKS IN ST, JAMES'S PARL Sir DE L. EVANS reminded the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Ferrets that the house had consented to esti mates for barracks in St. James's Park, on the undersiand ing that the portion of the perk belonging to the public should not be interfered with. Recent circumstances in ducing him to fear that that engagement was in danger of being violated, he hoped that the sable lord would be good enough to give him as fleasuretsa as the subject. Lord J. MANNERS, Is the atones of the hon. and gal lant member for Portartiagten, could not give the bon. and gallant general precise informatim, but believed that there yes no intention of infringing on the public portion of St. James's Park. 11.1iiMINtTIO OF PALACE•YARD. ILL! • • .N An H;Te7Mtiiiiiiasitti v;ltetite;,;iitTait;;eolllideril• dm of the safety of hon. members, it was the intention of remotest to order the erection of a new lamp in Palace yard. (A laugh.) Lord J. MANNERS thanked the hos. member for bring ing the subject under his notice, but the additional lamp post was already in course of ereetieek(Leughter.) LONDON AND WESTMINST I& BRIDGES. Mr. LAING wished to know whether the 011ie Ome. Illiissioser of Woods and Forests bed bed his attention called to the crowded state et Leaded-beidp, and whether government contemplated eay seedy t Lord J. MANNERS bad me 4111W0a aver the *- meta of London-bridge, wbielk was under the City aatho ricies. He did not think govieumat were the parties re sponsible for the state of Mot Miegoughltre. Sir R. INOLIS add be eteellos Mandy nut call the attention of goverment M the stated Weeteniaster-bridge, for which they were respenteible. CASE OF LEOPOLD DE ROSE. Lord D. STUART asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what had been the resale of the In• quirt' undertaken by the_goweenment into the cm of Leo pold de Roes, a Polish oer, who was imprisoned is Win chester gaol at the instance of Capt. Cospatelek Saints Hamilton, R.N. hau :X of the lima. and eageskily te OM of mentry pre-endeset ie kirryark, kr ila, kilillaave akar torisa le medal Erma tidied of a ileandel =We, end I treat dm r, ewe dmiegthe vernarks I hem ft eke ties mare of a limuteial elgp that pestat swami bet twerthirde of the rim am • eirmanutwase whisk risenvelly _ mach to tre ill att ties with whisk I have le de al. ' (Hear.) I eta sure that I dull merive to-night even • generous indulgeetie— Adieus) —and the only favour I shall presume to ask of hen. gentlemen either on this or the other side of tho house is that they will net precipitately decide on any proposition I have is make, but will consider all I have to offer as • whole, as a measure of justice to myself, and that they will not, anal they have heard the views of the government fairly placed before them—that they will not be carried away by the feelings of the moment, on which ever aide they may sit, to decide too hastily en the measures which it will be my duty to plasm before them. (Hear, hear.) I wish, after the result of the late general election, and after the understanding come to sub *spent to that election, that the principle of unrestricted competition was entirely and permanently adopted as the principle of our commercial code.—l wish to consider our financial system in relation to our commercial ',stem, to see ' whether they could not be brought more in harmony to pdikeaz, , sad whether, bringing them more in harmony , we might not remove many well-founded canoes setent from the people of this country, and lay the Illesiebt of a system which in future would not only be bestial, but would ealist in its favour the sympathies of eft dews. (lieu, hear.) But before I take that general Wag OD which I have just adverted, I think it weeli be convelieat that I should consider the claims of this, whu believe that by what we now familiarly describe es vilest legislates, they have received peculiar injury. Tabs, for ezmegle, the shipping interest, the super peedeciag iatereek and the agricultural interest, so far ite—irrespeethe et ell other pleas that may be urged for thesa-le tar sr la the opinion of the house they may be Babied le peedler burthens of taxation. Now with regard te the thipgleg interest. I may say this on the part of the goverament,t Mt, having investigated th 3 subject with great pains, and listened with great patience to the state ments of the representatives of that interest, they are of opisios that the shipping interest, principally in cane- quence of recent legislation, and the repeal of the argil/a- tion laws, are at this moment subjected to burthens to which they ought not to be liable, and to restrictions which—to use the words of the noble lord the member for the City of London—errioutly impede their prosperity. They complain of the primal systemihy which the pilotage of the country is regulated. They have great complaints as to what may be termed thelAdmiralty grievances. (Hear.) They complain of the circumstances under which an individual belonging to the mercantile marine is enlisted in the Royal Navy. I (Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") They complain of the way in which salvage is exacted. (Hear, hear.) They complain of the regulations under which anchorage takes place and is described. (Hear, hear.) They have very great and serious complaints to make as to the restrictions under which they labour with respect to the manning of aneesiilla of lading, sad charter parties. At present, I will l other complaints as to the stamps levied on marine maw- their seemly. (Cries of "Hear, hear.") And they have' only make a brief summary of the measures that the govern meat are prepared to recommend with reference to the claims of the shipping interest—measures which they will recommend with the earnest wish that all real grievances' . may be removed, and that we shall cease to hear of the claims of a particular interest, as being subject to burdens, restric tions and vexations, from which the rest of the community are free ; and that from henceforth, if those measures which I have indicated should be carried by the house in the spirit in which they will be introduced by us, we shall knew the shipping . only . as • portion of that great and floe eimmunity in which I for one earnestly desire that 2 1 Z every interest of the country should be merged. (Cheina.) We propose to deal with the question of lights imam three heads—to reduce the tax paid by the shi la. targets, under the claim of supporting the of the country, viz., the interest on the debt w • Mahan incurred—the contributions to large charities and peering tolls payable to harbours which the ships nevei enter. We propose to terminate these three greet sources of unjust taxation, and we believe we shall be able to effect this oh jest for the annual sum of 100,0001. The shipping interest will then have to pay for the lighthouses only from which ' they receive benefit—those which guide their ships and steel their lives—and they will, and I am sure they will, never complain of a tax levied for such objects and on such prin ciples, any more than any other class of the community will complain of any tax to which they are subject, but for which they obtain a corresponding besefit. (Cheers) Is the second place, we propose to submit to the cono:deration ' of a committee of the House of Commons the whole ques tion of pilotage, and we believe that by that means we shall arrive at a result that I am sure will be im partial, and which I have no doubt will be sa tisfactory. Then we propose that the three Admiralty grievances, anchorage, salvage, and enlistment shall be entirely terminated, or at bast subject to regulations which will deprive them of the injustice and unfairness which have been charged against them. We propose that the subject of manning shall depend on the adjudication of parliament on a still more important subject—and of that Imamate the shipping interest will not complain—(hear, hear)—and as to the last point—the taxation levied on the shipping interest under the head of stamps—that is • subject which affects the general revenue of the the country, and will be considered when we arrive at that subject of ee . I have new, sir, stated the general views of the government as to the claims of the chi • interest of the country, as made by dime. end eahaesd upon successive governments. I propose thus we should then proceed to the claims of the sugar prodeeing egisehm I have had placed before me what I believe am b/11111, be called a memorial, but ma official paper from the West India body, and I can wore them it is impossible there can be any individual in this house who would view their just complaints with more reedy sympathy thee myself. First, they demand that you should arrest the emu of desesst in the duty ea foreign sugar; secondly, that yen skull redoes the duty on British plantation sugar; thirdly, that you shield guarantee additional loans te be raised by them he the musses of immigration, and the Imprevemient of the estates; fourthly, that yes shield mutt the rater meat of sere in bead for Moe esesnmptiem es well as be exportation; Wily, that you should permit the isee of me lees's la brewing ; sad daddy sad lastly, etheg=dl de e ea 'palates of the duty net with that on al spirits. New, in the last ghee, I have to °sadder whether I eta recommend to the brass to stop the relishes is the duty on hedge eager, or is reduce the duty es Width plantation emeer,nad la &alai with this clattal must reed lett that I have t• similar it is a parliament that has been dueled to minblish the priacipla of sere striated eenagetities. We are by the repremetatiose, me bodied in the stestaisat I reed, aid to Dame that 111" eampsiailea between ear esiseM user and Ands =le • esopetlaset dot epees be eadured—wo as later heat the emedles that are reeemmended, that ruin will be drops/mem mimeses" ef NA • change le the duties as le digaseded set betas armle. Bat I will ask the been to stand be. taseept te the lest reams awn up 5* the 6th of Nevember, of the qua*, if sem se. deed red earellaid. amassed be hope - la Ilia UmksilLizeks,_ia ask of the tea swathe Nterszte her. MI sad NIL New, in 1651, the West I.dla mimeo net le this sentry—that is, there was entered here for brae esearapelca is the Nt h November, 2,251,000 meta. mad la the OM maths eadisi irk Were, 2, the West tali eslealse bete ealeeed, Wised el 1 1X1 66 ,000 sa tes 3 . 0 22.26645 , 15. (Lead ohms.) Ma the Kturitlai this tiesadly uttered to 6th Nov., 1851, was 804,000 ewes. awl to thee. se date in the present year 976,0 0 0 ewto eigir 4 l And theta the Esse Islas there were sawed is MN, INN. lOU* arta. end to the id New, NA& 1.304119 awes. Thee erre mese aimed be. ear united esleeise. as I yeah= is eaH them, to the ids Illesetaber, 1851, mele.„_ and be the same date he the pinata* per, 11112, ~000 mos. Now 'Nerd's* It motel be shown that awe b eV Pew ' , herdic lodated; the ley es British plurals& seam I have wale en if it he seeemery N arrest the deepest of the dudes il• fordo raw. The quantity of unrefined remits sew entered kr Woe entateptlea in November, 1851, ealseemted te_ 2,I2ILIMMiIIa ; bat la November, OM, instead of 1,215a11/ ewes., the s : a r unrefined fa l e m :: mewed err Wee was may 5 "ad the demises of hedge mu was in a degree far la November Uld, the quantity rmperted yes 268,00 d eerie., while in November, 1852, in stead of 268,000 owls., the quantity Imported was 248,00 ewe. It will be sea been the general results of the Imes I have pot beim the hews (I boo+ it is weari some M put Awes beam the hews, bat this is a question which redly respires it)—(bear, hear)—it will be seen, I my, by the remit that in 1851 Uwe will be an importation of 4.126,000 !mtg. of British colonial sugar, ss against 1,487,000 ewhi. of foreign sugar ; while in 852 there has been imported .5,378,000 ewts. of British colonial sugar against nearly 814,000 ewta of foreign sugar. The increase in the imports of British colonial sugar has therefore been about 1,230,000 cysts., while there has been a decrease in the importation of foreign sugar of about 00,000 cuts. I ask then (I may be called • traitor, or I way be called a renegade)—(loud cheers)—but I ask eau say redeem, on whatever side of the bow he may sit, sen say sue re commend an alteration in that diareattal duty on the praduce of an interest which is now commanding the metro politan market, cats any one ask for an alteration of the dif ferential duty under these circumstances. Then I am asked to grant additional lodine to our West India eolonies, te be raised by themselves under • guarantee by the government, to be applied to the promotion of immigration, and certainly nothing could be m re legitimate than the immigration of 1 labourers into our colonies, and it ieone which undoubtedly ought to be encouraged. Wheal am asked for a loan to moist immigration—(l mast ask the house to permit me to enter into details, although they may be wearisome to the house, but it mast be remembered that they relate to clues. Cons which must be settled to-night)—l say, then, when the West India body asks for such loans, it is necessary to remind the house of the state of our relations with that body. By the act of the 11th and 12th Vic. we have gua ranteed a loan, which is to bear interest at not more than 4 or 6 per cent., of a sum not exceeding 500,0001., and the re. =of which is to be charged on the um of the Of this loan the following sums have bean allotted: Ile British Galena, 240,0001.; to Trinidad, 100,0001; god to St. Lu is, 3,0001., making a total of 353,000'., teed this only has been allotted out of the 800,000 i. There is a memorial now before the Colonial- Mee foe a loan of 100,0001. for Jamaica, but it has not been deckled whether it will be allotted, and therefore the sum PINIISIning unappropriated, supposing that the great Saab be Jamaica, is not much more than 40.0001., while of the Ann allotted to British Guises, 120.0001. only has bees taken up, and of that apportioned to Trinidad only 40,0001. Bow then can as claim be urged on the overnment for the jespeal of a fresh las to oar sugar Woman, lir. WALPOLE said he had oak fa born bus Yo subject, sad believed that Capella DeoOho siehl set have dem stherres this smolt Mr. De Rees. bilalusliew, lowever, pessiesi selemesest he list esms ttal Ma to *Lk est lei ma inneseties lees mewe i d Is thou, it would have reesited is Mr. De Vete% asquittal. CUDDY RESHILVIS, CANADA. Sir W. MOLISWORTM lessed to a& the Senekey of State for the Osissies whelbst 11 Is the idesties of for Majesty's andatees wldes* s hill to eosins Ike Coss ets legleatere to Dome side preena of the dein setes% whisk Is the emildes tisit Ike stipends end allow- Mete lessekeles solesed tad eves to the ds ef the ensue of Essimi sad Scotland, or to any One bones es demonetises of Christians is Ceassis:27• emend during Ms seam' lies and iscor of Os parties sow reeseksy Ike ems P He wicked she Is hem wheeler goverment bed received as adds.= tree Os hr. &later° of Uwe Cambria re Ike selinst Sir J. PAICTON amid he led received the tiles hy the bus. basset, eel erla mime to Mc sessed sesi mos impolset pot of Ms qualm led he Um Mr Majetlysymermaset led item Ins whim the fullest emelemetne, mid had deddsil-mmilieneg that the we esestislly es Upper Cement lemehms. the seembly of Meek prinisee was 'lose semis MOW es Ins subject. est Ins siellerity who sorhed lie - reselseees Ms whisk Os Wise bed essaestad wo priselpally =I of Rama ed the lower pewees, Mom estshishosses woos ameilioesaly 'Mowed. sad thus the Ass ef ISM had hats assepted se easel settiessest --epee sot izendseieg say MR to the mime of any* est the object alluded us by the Me. ban. 81r W. 1101111WODYM Ws .tens Meg lostelket after the man les meld awe for Isms to hese is a W I to en sble the selsetal legislature to nom ef the ekegy referees is accordance with the promise gives by the late goveraraeat. METROPOLITAN BUILDING ACT. In answer to Mr. Osborne, Lord J. MANNERS detail that goverment woall immediately after the raceme briag in a bill amending the Metropolitan Building Act. COALING THE WAR STEAMERS. Mr. FITZROY wished to know from the Secretary to the Admiralty whether a statement which bad appeared in the paper, to the effect that the ship Pique, 74, which, haring been in commission, had been sent to the Motherbank to serve as a coal depot for the war steamer, had upon being opened been found to be utt er ly rotten and unseaworthy, was correct? Also whether resources for coaling were being provided at Plymouth and Portsmouth?' Mr. STAFFORD said that the fact stated was true, aad that the general question was under consideration. NOTICES OF MOTION. Br/Amore E XDOWN INT. —On the Maynoelkftelintli Mr. Spooner, Mr. SCHOLEFIELD to move asegoomlmeifi extending the denial of grant to all religiose eafiemmonfiL Pcnt.te HuLTW Acr.—Sir 0. PECHRlsiakeeelfilnkb, after the ream to eall atteation to the ethesths oft e provisioaal orders ander the Public Health Aet. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. On the motion of Mr. F. MACKIN/111, it was ordered that the house en its rising adjourn until Mond*/ neat. SUPPLY.—THE BUDGET. The home haviag resolved itself into a tostualttee of suppl The CHANCELLOR 1111 the EXCHEQUER eahl-71r. Wilson Pitta. Sir, al lboogh the hems bee bus deem! to ascribe to the remarks I bawl to make Omsk* fah dot ranter of a financial st a t emen t , sad although I as Witt inclined to quarrel isfah the threes of the bees, dill I hope the base win have the Walser to reeelleet that ear thethelel Mks's& hie le he mole seder very peculiar orisseetsses is* that, wiping with /ease,, I shall hese Mid& le as slier see ether awl sly Imperials qthedsme—ethelhel. he szlin44l sake thesses le the ads the rav er arm esstelbste mos le the Malted's es* iodise d the pee d* l whether sea ellerelles mg he eased is the sum resse hen lodes does do Isseedes et= I red Weeds ; ohm elk pulum*AW gbeth ee we =I take this 4gi•UIV sod e• mania es eelespples - was MOO le Se isplemease THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 4, 1852. allotted lau when, se I have shown, the sum unlace negh;en exhabsted—((b—althompb I i l tfjor:proKl isinnigra Mines* Km ibigt sheen may ennpletivit of tl 40 that oeioni. Maar, May, I new INN didia—namely,lbe refinement of sugar is bee____ if/Amu well iss for foreign coesemptiso. We have . only this gatelike. In old days oat geenjoi k was ably vindicated by my noble friend Uri' Chun g N o . Seek, and I and my colleagues have considered it. There is no doubt that tt would he • great boon to the eager colonies. (Hear, hear,) T will put the lees thus, and sup pon that tile year 1854 had arrived, i 8 'that there Is thei no differential duty, but that alt sui* - Pty. a duty ad 10e. We are told that the mushartne matter of sugar awaked is so muds frosisr Hoe that of L e o% sugar, that putting one huotirod 1110011 @Oast am eb a the proportion is as 90 to 70 or 76 in Watt belie sow, and as regards the coarse East Toad elver as 90 to 60. The house will see that when the duties are equal on raw produce, that which preens of suutufacture is so much better has, in fact, a difereadal duty in its favour. If there is the same dut os two kinds lewdness the relative proportions of which In the proses eintinoufseture ass es 711 to 90, there is virtually a dia led's' day betas= tbs. What we are asked is that the ewe& be rulloal to hood, and that the duty shall be pissed en tits sollned sugar, and not on the wane. There are to otsn in which are involved eonsideratioas tear lbe revenue of the country. But I de cot *ha KM SON ontaiderations of revenue should be set against **jolt aim of the colonies. Here we have an =iriof falhedini a great boon to the colonies con wi y th the peimeiple of unrestricted competition. Oaths part of the goverment, then, I secede to that boas, balsam that it will be • great relief, and give a great kiosks' to the manufacture of colonial sugar. (Cheers.) I will sot sew say anything with regard to the allowing of MOWING to be used in brewing, and the equalisation of the duties as ran and home-made spirits, for the same reason that I did est enter on the quid= of the stamp duties on charter ormarinc einsunusees. Titers is anothersubject to whhioehh, before I enter on the general question, it is neces sary that I should advert. That subject has reference to the local taxation of the country. Now, the local taxation of the country is • subject with which wears so familiar, that I treat of it now much more succinctly than probably I should otherwise have done. Local taxation resolves itself into three principal rates, all of which have been frequently discussed in this house. Firstly, there is the highway rate, which has been often brought before the house with refer ence to the question of improvement in its administration. Then there is the county rate, which is eertainly not considerable in its amount, but which has excited much public interest, as involving the question of the introduc tion of the representative system as the governing principle of its administration:: and then, the greatest and most im portant of all, the poor-rate. 1 shall not say much with respect to the highway-rate. There have been no less than six acts passed by this house for the better administration of the highway-rate, and I had not intended to advert to it, but that au lion. friend of mine, the Under-Secretary for the Home Department, the member for Fetersfield, who is so emineatly qualified for the task, and who presided with such signal ability and unwearied industry over a com mittee of this house which sat on the subject of turnpike trusts, sad has shown that he is a muter of the subject, and who has been acknowledged to be so by the house, has, although he has quite enough to do, assisted me in the preparation of • bill on the question of highway rates; and although it is • subject on which I did not intend to touch to-night, yet I may state that we pro pou to introduce a bill regulating the administration of highway rates, which even after six experiments have already been made on the subject, and that by some very able men, will, I trust, be found to be satisfactory in its effects on the administration of those rate' and be received with favour by the important districts to which it refers. I come neat to the county . rate, which lathe smallest in point of amount, but which is a subject of great interest to the house and the country. I will say generally that with regard to local administration the government enter tains no objection to the introduction of the repre sentative principle into any portion of the management of the affon of the country into which it cat be introduced with general content of the country and with advantage. But, sir, I say frankly, that as far as the county rate is concerned, I am not prepared to recommeni that change which has been demanded. I come, then, to the considera tion of the poor-rate. In dealing with this class of rates— not in any way changing my opinion that the absolute incidence of al l local taxation is perfectly indefensible in point of principle—but looking to that which is most expe dient for the eountry generally, and most expedient for that class which I think may be injuriously affected by present arrangement—taking that view of the case alone—l will now examine for a moment the poor-rate. (Hear, hear.) Now, since 1818-1819, the last returns you had on the table when I first called attention to the sub ject, you have had an average diminution in the poor rate equal to the establishment charges. (Free teed* ettessa) The expenditure fur the relief and the' maintain= of the poor—as shown by the return which was es tit' table when I spoke in 1819—which, however, MN Met he 1849, but fur 1849.9—and which, of course, argument and the origin of e um the basis of my entral tie blic pu feeling o f the country on the subject —was 1 0,190,00 U On the other hand, the expenditure for the relief and maintenance of the poor for the year 1851— Whisk is the last on the table of the house, thou; h I still more recent returns to refer to—instead Tbareing bare 6,180,0001. is 4,962,0001. (Great free trade elseedng.) I am sorry for that interruption. I am afraid that cheer was not merely a cheer on account of the diminution of the poor rate. (Laughter.) I am afraid it was • cheer for "recent legislation." (Great laughter.) Mind you, I don't want to disturb recent legislation, as Isbell show you to-night ; but I think your cheer was • very ißogied one—(laughter)—and it induces me to show you what otherwise I might not have touched on, for I don't wait soy controversy—(laughter)—that recent legislation may not, after all, have had anything to do with that re melt. (Laughter.) Look here. Recent legislation has oc audoned, aa you think, your poor rate in 1851 to be under 6,oooRooL—at was 4,962,0001.—0 n which you cheered ; bat then, it so happened that in 1816 it was rather lees. (Ministerial cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT.—Yes, but there was the same pries of torn. (Fns trade cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—I don't know that. I think I could quote—though I don't want to detain the house with any argument—l think I could pro duce some returns shout prices of corn which would rather disturb the conclusion the hon. gentleman has arrived at. (Ministerial cheers.) One return I remember quoting, and of that Sir Robert Peel remarked that it should never have been priated. (Ministerial cheers.) But there are greater and graver subjects before us to consider than the triumph of obsolete opinions. (Great laughter on the op tionbenches.) Yes, but that is the proper phew— another burst of merriment, in which the whole began to join, Interrupted the right hon. gentleman) —for, rr, I look upon one-sided free trade as an obsolete opinion, just as you look upon protection as being obsolete. ( j Hear, hear.) And I am lost in the great princ iple of the day—of unrestricted competition . (Cheers and laughter.) But, to return, I must put these agues before the house. They are very significant I have show. you that then has been a diminution from 1848 to 18.51 of nearly 25 per cent. in the poor rats expenditure, which is se im portant point for me to consider u regards the expediency of dealing with that rate. But though there has been, from 1648 to 1851, a diminution of nearly 400,0001. a year in the poor rate, I have here the return of 18.52, and I am sorry to say that that rate of diminution has not only ceased, but that, in fact, very little diminution has taken place. (Hear.) I have no doubt that the counteracting canoes that for the moment have arrested its rapid diminu tioa may be discovered ; but I myself, nevertheless, believe that there are circumstances—that there are ether causes in operation that will propessively and even immediately diminish the pauperism of the country. (Loud cheers.) Well, then, sir, I have to con slur, under these circumstance., whether it would be expedient to deal with the sum that is raised by local taxation for the maintenance of the poor. Wall, as my means are limited—looking, as I am anxious to look, to the means by which I may must every suffering class and every class which I think has a fair claim to the consideration of the house—while those means shall, at the same time be such as shall contribute to the general wel fare of the community—believing that the measures that on the part of my colleagues I am about to propose to-night have that tendency—that they will greatly most those who I think have been subjected to a very severe trial, and, in that respect, I consider, are liable to • taxation which, upon priociple, cannot be defended.—l still am not prepared to recommend any change whatever in the present system of raising the local taxation of the country. (Loud cheers from the free trade aide of the house.) Now, sir (continued the right bou. gentleman, after an interval of a few mo ments), I have considered the three instances of particular interests that have, In my opinion, suffered by recent legis lation: and I have placed before the house the general views of the government with respect to those Interests. (Hear, hesr.l I have had to consider after the general election, and after the calm verdict of the country—the general system of our taxation, end to apply to it the principle of unrestricted competition. I had to ask myself, " What are the measures which are best to recommend to parliament now that this principle is formally anddefinitivelyestablished—what are the measures most consistent with that principle, and which will permit the community to encounter that competition which they must now, in every form and in every sense, be pre pared to meet?" It is the boast of hon. gentlemen opposite that they have given cheap bread to the cam usually. But the principles upon which you have given cheap bread to the community are exactly the principles which ought to make you cheapen the sustenance of the community in every point of view. (Cheers) And I think I shall be able to show to the house that if they adopt that principle of finance, they will in a legitimate man ner—without expressly intending it. without going out of their way, without any artificial means—be Riving the greatest possible impulse to every branch of the industry of the country, and especially to thou very branches that hero *offered most by recent legislation. (Cheers.) The house, therefore, being thus put in possession of our views, will not be astonished that her Majesty's government are pre pared to recommend the house to deal with the malt tax. (Ministerial cheers.) The ',Living duty on malt is 2s. 70. and five per cent. per bushel. The con sumption has increased. In 1819 it was 38,935,000 bushels ; in 1830 it was 40,744,000 bushels ; and in 1851 it was 40,337,000. But, though lacy seed, there is no article of consumption which has less proportionately increased with other artieles—(hear, hear)—and the diminution of the consumption of which I think can be mor e clearly attributed to the large tax which Is levied u p on it, an d t o the restrictions which it occasions. (Hear, hear.) The sum which we have to deal with is a sum which exceeds An millions as regards the revenue, sod we poppets that duty exactly by one-half. We duty of le. 31d., and Spar cent. dam embers and bigg. We puree, oleo to de away the melt drawback in Scotland ent spirits robed fins' malt. That drawback has already ben re sesneed by Ireland as unnecessary ; end it was reemniesided by the Oeinseissionere of Excise loquiry,as ose whieheimitild hetenaiseesi wbeserrer there was any considerable rellsetios of *tided, on malt, We propose then that en the 10th of Oct. the malt duty shall be reduced ow half. We fixed upon that period of course after • full eseasination into the pubs when the change could take place with the least in 'enevenienc• to the trade, ands we believe to the most general benefit of the Unienunity ; and the 10th of October is the day on which we propose to take the stock in malt throughout the country, and of course we shall guard those who are pomesson of malt from competition as far as part of the mount of the duty to which they are subject guts. So far as that they will receive • drawback. Now I emu to another breach of the subject. I come to deal with an article as popular :with the people u malt, as much a necessary of life, sad subject to a sash heavier tax. lam about to recommend to the house to deal with the tea duties. (Hear, hear.) I know there is • prejudice that exists among a cer tain class of persons upon the subject of the tea duties. Having had occasion to look very much into this guestiou I have been astonished to ace the progress of opinion, the gradual formation of opinion, upon • subject now almost of paramount Interest in this country. I hardly know anything more amusing than to open Pepys' Diary, where you find it stated :—" Took a cup of the new China drink. Very pleasant." (Laughter.) This exotic novelty, as it wee not two centuries ago, which then pleased this fantasia gentleman, is now the principal solace of every cottage is the kingdom. But the great ob jection that has been raised at different times to reducing the duty—for I think it right to state a case of this kind as Girl y as piessible—is that in dealing with tee we deal with an article of limited production. True it is that when Mr. Pepys took his cap of the new China drink, true it is that since the commencement of the last century only 600,000 lbs. of tea were imported into this country in one year, yet that im portation has gone on till we have needed an importation of more than 70,000,0001b1. a year, and that at cheaper prices; and these are facts which tend to show that the production cannot be limited. A production so immensely increased, and always brought forward at a lower price, appears to be one in which the supply cannot be likely to fail. But in the year 1834, shortly after the Reform Bill, and when the charter of the East India Company wee about to be renewed, and the trade wee about to be opened, it wee always urged by persons of authority, against opening the trade with China, that we should be greatly disappointed in what we did, because the supply of tea being limited, it was quite impossible that there should be any reduction in the price. The supply of tea was then about 30,000,0001 U. per annum. Now we last year imported the unprecedented amount of 71,466,000 lbs., and the consumption sou in round numbers 64,000,000. It is quite clear, therefore, that the importation of tea is still in arrear of our consumption, and it is quite clear, therefore, that the duties which exist, which are now near 240 per cent., check consumption. Well, whether we look to the gradual increase in the consumption of tea, whether we look to the broad fact that the importations, which were 30,000,000 lbs. under the chart r, under the restricted trade, have increased to 71,000,000165. under the freer trade,though subject to • colossal duty, when we look at all the evidence before us, when we look to the gradual diminution of prices, we have a right, I think, prima facie to conclude that there will be no difficulty in supplying the demand for: tea in this country. But her Majesty's government, in dealing with this subject, have not deemed it consistent with their duty merely to depend on their own conclusions. They had the opportunity of consulting those who are great authorities on this subject, men who by their foreign resi dence, their peculiar study of the subject, and by their natural aptitude for:forming conclusions on such matters, should guide the judgment of any administration; they have applied to those who are best capable of forming an opinion; for, of course, forming an opinion of a country like China is more difficult than with some countries, nevertheless we have now some know ledge of China, there are individuals who are competent to guide even a government on such subjects ; and it has been represented to us, after giving to this question the most la borious investigation, and having omitted no efforts to attain the most accurate information, having suggested every means and every test by which that information could be brought to bear—having even personally had the honour and satisfaction of conferring with some peculiarly qualified to form an opinion on the subject —we hive ar rived at a conclusion which, to use the most moderate ex pression I can command, is that there are no prospects of any want of supply of tea to this country. Well, it is under these circumstances that we deal with this question. We must remember some facts of importance —we must re member that since the year 1811 the gradual, the annual increase of the consumption of tea has been 1,727,00016 n. This is the gradual increase which has taken place in the consumption of tea even at a duty, I think, of 240 per cent., while the increase during the last two or three years has been must larger. The increase during the lest six years without any reduction in duty has been nearly 10,000,000 lbs.; for in 1861 the consumption was 54,000,000, and in 1844 it was 41,000,000. That is only in six years. (Hear, hear.) The present duty upon tea, in addition • to the 5 per cent., is 2s. 21d. per lb. ; and without making , any distinction in the quality of the tea, we propose to ; reduce that duty to la. per lb. (Loud cheers.) We pro ; pose that, following the example of the sugar duty, that reduction shall take place during the term of six years— , (loud cries of " Oh'—and that in the fleet year there shall be a reduction of 4 .in the lb. ("Oh, oh.)" Sir, there is one duty whit I am about to deal with, which is connected with this branch of the subject ; and to which I ought perhaps to have adverted before. I mean the hop , duty. (Hear, hear.) We are unwilling to make this effort to give cheap beer to the people without dealing with one important ingredient of that beverage. The • house is aware that there are two duties now levied upon hope. There is the old duty which was put on in the time of Queen Anne ; and there is the war duty which was imposed during the last continental struggle. They are both equal in amount, and in round numbers (for they ere calculated in fractions) they amount to one pe nn y each. What we propose is that the war duty, which is a very unpopular one, and one that ought never to have been ; continued, shall be remitted. (Murmurs.) At present we do not propose to take off all—something must be left for future statements of this kind. (Loud laughter.) Still, sir, I think that the reducing the hop duty one half, and the malt duty one half—reducing likewise the tea duties imme diately to a considerable extent, and establishing a ma chinery that will bring them down to one shilling per pound, it cannot be said that we have been neglectful of the claims of • community sub. • jested to the principles of unrestricted compe • titian. (Load cheers.) Now, sir there is one point ; of sense importance which, I think, I ought to touch upon. We an raising the revenues of this country on the princi ple that they will mainly depend upon the consuming power , ads* people. But, sir, it bee bean said of late, and it his ; been bruited about with considerable§ vehousenee, that the consuming pewee of the people is beim rapidly impaired, , and that modern asenossiste have node • mistake. Now, there is no desist that if we look to the re tars of the Migration Comatissicesses there is a greater amount at *magnum from this soontry than is (muster !Warmed by the births that have takes place in Itogland and Wales. In the year 1849 the emigrants were In round I numbers 300,000. In 1850 they were 280,000; la 1831, 33-5,000; and to October 1, 1852—which is the paled saw ; prised by the latest returns I have, that Is, three-quarters of a year in 1862—the numbers are aeuly equal in amount to the whole of the year 1&51, namely, 332,000. There is • no doubt, moreover, that the births in this country in 1851 , were in round numbers little more than 600,000, and the deaths 400,000; so that it would seem by these returns that. while the difference between the births and the deaths was 200,000, the number of the emigrants exceeded that su perfluity of births over deaths by considerably above 100,000. But if these figures are • little examined—if they are a , little saslysed—it will be found that there is no foundation for the conclusions which have been es hastily drawn from i them. In the first place, the returns are confined to Eng land and Wales. (Hear, bear.) In the second place, the amount of our emigration has been two-thirds from Ireland, a country which does not figure in the returns. (Hear, hear.) Then, sir, we are forced to consider the different causes which have produced the emigration from Ireland and from England. In Ireland it is produced by a social system which hes broken to pieties, and by the misery of the people. (Hear, hear.) But emigration in England is produced by circumstances exactly the contrary. The people of England were never better off, but they have a foreign inducement which acts upon their spirit and energy ; and they are determined to seek even better fortunes than they have experienced at home. (Hear, hear.) That is the point, and that is the great differenise between the causes • which produce emigration from the two countries. The emigration from England is only 100,000 yearly against an addition of 200,000 to its population. (Hear, hear.) There is nothing, one would suppose, excessively to be &ppm ; heeded in the fact, that our emigration is stimulated by the higher aspirations of our countrymen, and not by misery. (Hear, hear.) So far the facts are that 100,000 quit us au , neatly, when the natural increase of our population is 200,000. But if there were 200,000, or even 300,000, I can , nut admit that emigration under those circumstances would be a source of weakness to the country, or that the finances of the country would show a serious diminution. On the contrary—though I would shrink from anything like para dox on a subject so grave—on the contrary, my opinion is that it has • tendency to increase our resources. Every emigrant meetly becomes an English colonist, and every English colonist Weenies an English customer. (Hear, hear.) Oor markets are stimulated and wages are improved by :;that very circumstance. (Hoar, hear.) Are these signs of dissolution or decay ? (Cheers.) Even if I look to Ireland, where the emigration takes place under circumstances so contrary, I am still obliged to arrive at the same conclusion. The honourable gentleman the mem ber for Wolverhampton said to me, the other night, ' that the discovery of gold, like the production of any other article, has gives activity to commerce, but no more than any other article would give ; and he called spin me to meet him upon that important point. I di sot think that that was exactly the night on which it was necessary to enter into that discussion ; hut I deny the position of the hon. gentleman, that the discovery of gold, like say other article, has given activity to commerce, but no more. I say that it has given activity to commerce ; and not only es, but that it has an influence upon the commercial operations of this country which no other article has. (Cheers.) And I say that the discovery of ' gold, with a currency such as we possess, has established credit in this country in a manner which no political econce mist could have dreamt of. (Cheers.) It has increased and confirmed credit in this country : and the in , crease and confirmation of credit hat of course immensely tended to the employment of the people.; should diodwish tt, wit to 14 a wallow ith ... aid alwa °dim w - That man would indeed be blinded by prejudice who should shut his eyes to such a consequence. (Hear, hear.) But the main question' at this moment is, will the present rate of interest last? (Hear, hear.) I will not conceal my *pinks—though perhaps, it is imprudent to declare it—that the present rate of interest will (whatever may be our com mercial imprudencies, which I should deprecate as much as any one) continue. (Chun.) I believe that the present , fate of interest depends upon conditions and circumstances which never before prevailed in this country ; that they are natural circumstances and permanent conditions; and that if we act only with tolerable prudence, with such an advan tage as • low rate of interest arising from natural causes, this country has such an opportunity of making great ma- terial progress as never occurred before, even in the visions of any statesman. (Cheers.) Sir, by the re- AticUou of the tea duties to the amount of 400,0001. (the actual reduction will be much more, above 900,00014 and by the reduction of the hop duty, which is a fluctuating amount, but which on an average we may take at 300,000/. —1 have proposed reductions to the amount of between three and four millions sterling. But I must remind the house that I though this is only December, in a few months one of the principal sources of the revenue of the country will terminate, and that if they support the propositions or the government, they must not only encounter those great remissions of taxation, and some great diminution of revenue in consequence, but they must also be prepared to deal with the consequence of a law expiring which now gives us morn than five millions sterling of reve nue, and that is the property and income tax. It becomes, therefore, the duty of the house to decide what they will do with regard to the property and income-tax. Nuw, air, I am clearly :of opinion that, if we are to have recourse to direct taxation, that direct [taxation should be as general, at least in its theory, as indirect taxation. (Hear, hear.) How far it may be so in its actual operation is for the com mittee to consider ; but I hays no hesitation in saying that the theory of establishing direct taxation upon a system, a large system, of exemption'', is one of the moat pernicious that could be entertaiaed, and ought not to be continued. (Cheers.) Therefore, in offering to the house the views which her Majesty's ministers entertain with respect to the property . and Income tax, I venture to lay it down as a ge neral principle, that, in considering that tax, our direct taxation should be, at least in theory, as general as indirect taxation. (Hear, hear.) Sir, when I consider the eery large exemptions which are connected with that tax, there bone which I am bound at once to notice and take into con sideration; and it is the largest exemption connected with the income and property tax ; and that is—lreland. (Loud cheers and laughter from both sides of the house.) Sir 11. Peel in his financial statement in 1842, when he first intro duced the property and income-tax, proposed to impose upon Ireland, as au equivalent for the property and income-tax, two measures. There was to be increased duties upon spirits, which he estimated would produce 250,0001. a year; and there were to be some additional stamp duties in matters affecting property, the produce of which he esti mated at 160,0001., making altogether 410,000/. a year. That was to be the contribution of Ireland, in another form, but as an equivalent for its not contributing Ito the aggregate property and income-tax of the United Kingdom. Now, I must remind the house, although one would like always to be taking off taxes, and never rcininding any gentleman that he has not paid these that were expected from him—(laughter)—yet I must state that the spirit duties which were estimated at '250,0001. were rescinded, it being found that they stimulated illicit distillation; while the aggregate received from the additional stamps was this:—The stamp duties produced, in 1839, before the property sod income tax was imposed, 410,0001., and in 18.52, 486,0001. (Hear, hear.) So that Ireland has contri buted to the property and income, instead of 410,0001., just 16,0001. per annum. (Cheers, and laughter.) But, not withstanding all that, it is impossible to be insensible to what Ireland has had to go through during the interval. But the state of Ireland is not now without a ray of hope. (Cheers.) As far as I can form an opinion —and I can assure my Irish friends that I have taken the utmost pains to make myself acquainted with the condition of that country—l think I may venture to speak of Ireland with out mute the Language of despair, or the accents of desola tion. (Cheers.) You have had a crushing Poor-law— (hear, hear)—but what is your present position with re spect even to that overwhelming burden ? Is it mitigated ? Is it more endurable? Permit me to place before the house the returns of the present incidence of poor-law tax ation on Ireland. I do not want to insult any gentleman by showing him that his country is not ruined. (Cheers, and laughter.) I am only anxious to fulfil my duty to night—to convey, as far as I can, a correct view of the state of her Majesty's dominions to her " faithful com mons." (Ikar, hear.) Here is a comparative summary, in provinces, of the expenses incurred in the poor-law unions of Ireland during the financial years ending 29th of September, 1850, 1851, and 1852 respectively. It is drawn up to end of the last parochial year. Now, the poor-law expenditure in 1850 amounted to the enormous sum of 1,329,000/. In 1851, it was reduced to 1,129,0001. (Hear, hear.) In the year ending 29th &member , 1852, the poor-law expenditure, which was 1,320,0001. ' in 18-50, had become 855,0001. (Cheers.) Tho decrease of expenditure in 1851, as compared with 1850, was in amount nearly 200,0001., and at the rate of 14 per cent. The de crease of expenditure in 1852, as compared with 1851, was in amount 214,0001., at the rate of 24 per cent. The de crease in expenditure for the year just concluded, 18.52, as compared with 1850, was in amount not less than 466,000/, and a per mintage of 3). (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, when one has this authentic and gratifying return be fore one, I say one is juetified in not altogether de s pairi ng of the condition of Ireland. (Cheers and laughter.) In Connaught alone, as compared with 1850, the diminution has been 116,0001., and the rate of diminution 48 per cent. (Hear, hear.) Now, in looking at the condition of Ireland, I must call the attention of the house to another fact ; be cause it completes the picture of the incidence of poor-law taxation in Ireland, of which we have heard so much com plaint—and justly so. (Hear, hear.) I do not deny that our friends in Ireland have suffered from the severe inci dence of this taxation ; I do not deny that they have gone through a terrible ordeal ; but I must say of them, as I have said in reference to the NVest that what I can deal with must be their present Position, aid not their past. (Hear, hear.) The object of establishing • comprehensive and complete poor law in Ireland has been finally accommished ; and the whole of Ireland is now able to maintain its own poor, without external pecuniary assistance from any quarter." (Hear, hear.) Seth is the condition of Ireland. I do not say that it is perfect. Do not let my hon. friends suppose that I am one of those who, by malignant misrepresenta tion, would avoid doing justice to their calamities. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) All I ask is, that they will admit that, having gone through frightful difficulties, and borne them like men,. their position is very much improved. (Hear, hear.) That is all I ask. But there are other rea sons which may be advanced why Ireland should not longer enjoy exemption from the income tax. People have said that, instead of contributing 460,0001., as was expected, that country has only paid 16,0001. People have not been disinclined. in a somewhat churlish manner, to forget the sufferings and sorrows of Ireland in that circumstance. But there) are other complaints, of a very difficult cha racter to deal with, with regard to not extending the income tax to Ireland. The Governor of the Bank of England has made an official representation, that at the present moment the Bank of Ire land is prepared to purchase terminable annuities, but that it is impossible for the Governor of the Bank of England to contend against the Governor of the Bank of Ireland, because the latter does not pay any income tax. Many interests, he says, require redress, but I have no doubt that before you make the financial statement, you will consider the Bank of England, for no interest is more unjustly treated than the Bank of England with respect to property and income tax. (Hear.) Another awkward and delicate point is, that people wive come here receive their money in Ireland, and do not pay any duty there. (Hear.) I mention these things to show what a delicate and difficult thing is an income tax based on exemptions. Now I shall venture to treat this great question in the following manner. (Hear, hear.) I do not think myself that it would be wise to treat with any hardship the landed interest of Ireland. They have gone through a great deal, and I should be sorry to pounce on Ireland and say you must pay your quota. (Hear.) I thi n k, how ever, that we should do everything: to assist that wise, just, and beneficial change which has taken place in Ire land. (Cheers and laughter.) I do not think it is expe dient that we should throw obstacles at the present me sment in the way of the regeneration of that country. But I most say this—remembering what the governo r o f th e Bank of England has said—that I shall feel it to he m duty, when I lay before the house tho schedule on which I ' intend to recommend the reconstruction of the new income tax, to extend the property and income tax in ke lt:id to funded property and salaries. (Hear, hear.) An hon. gentleman and friend of mine asked me the other night whether her Majesty's government were prepared to carry into effect the recommendations of the committee of the House of Lords with regard to the consolidated an nuities. I have the opportunity of stating so-night that' the amount of the consolidated annuities is 240,0001. per annum, or something like that amount. The house will recollect how they came into existence. There was a loan made to Ireland of 10,000,0001. ; subsequently that loan was reduced to about one-half. I was always of opinion, and it is still my belief, that that loan was in a great degree made to meet an imperial calamity—(hear, hear) and, considering it in that light, I do not object to the arrangement made in any sense whatever. But the house understands that the balance of that loan, after being reduced by this great amount, was thrown into the form of c onso lid a t e d annui ties, which are calculated with reference to the peculiar character of each case. I must refrain from entering at large upon the diseussion of this subject ; but, from the appeals made to me, I am not free to avoid all allusion to it. I have shown the house to-night that in 1852. as compared with 1851, there has been a diminution in the charge for poor rate is Ireland to the amount of 274,0001., and this is a sum considerably greater than the amount of the whole consolidated annuities. Now, I beg my hon. friend to rememeber what I have said with refer ence to the people of England who are suffering from what they consider the unjust incidence of local taxation. I have shown how the reduction in the amount of pauperism I is greater this year than the amount of the whole establish-' went charges, and I beg to tell my hon. friend also that in considering this question, he must remember that the state of Ireland is much improved since the recommendation of the committee of the House of Lords. (Hear.) Let me will considero f not be misinterpreted. It ie the intention of her Majesty's government to consider that question, but they do n u t the o t t h h a e t r intend to be bound I n say way by the recommends questi llouso o o c f ntir i e 'ar ly lian' on its entThey oww merits, and I have . rnyeelf prepared a measure with regard to it, a hich I shall submit to the cottaidoratioa of the hoax—a tpeasure which I believe to be justified by circumstances, and will be beneficial in its operation. (Hear, hear.) But let not hon. gentlemen go away with the belief that her Majesty's government are about to carry into operation the particular recommendations of the noose of Lords With regard to the property and income tax, 1 have laid down one principle—namely, that as far as pe a . Bible direct taxation should be as general es indirect, and that any measure, hued on a large scale of exemption s , the house ought not to tolerate. (H ear , h ear. ) B ut there is another principle which her Majesty's government are pre pared to assert with regard to this important question, and that in, to acknowledge a difference between permanent and precarious incomes. (Loud cheering.) Sir, I will not eater L o re bs t e ha r atec v aii.ofatarcsi necessarily t asnii impossible c y h ei bt as lremaining o co e u n te d o nt n oo wv whicha r intoioes! into any argument on that subject now. Though I have l r must felinet u r t a curtailed advert, emrey discussion on a subject that deserves, and probably will require, on the part of the House of Commons prolonged and mature deliberation. (Hear, hear.) My uhjeet to-night is to make an exposition of the policy which her Majesty's government are prepare -el to re. °amend, and all that I have to do is to place it before the house in as clear a MU. ner as 1 can. Being of opinion that in constructing a s p measure for a property and income tax, the direct taxation should be as general as the indirect, that it should not be based on any system of exemptions, and that a difference should be recognised by the legislature between realised and precarious incomes, I shall now offer to the house the rates of duty ouch as government are pre. pared to re.commend the adoption of to parliament. (Hear.) Sir, notwithoseding the large remission of taxati on which her Majesty's government recommead—a remis sion amounting immediately to 3,5e0,0001.—and evep tuslly relieving the econeumers or the country to a much greater extent—it is not the intention o f t h e government to recommend any increase in any sea of the schedules of the property and income tax, (Cheers.) I will first state to the committee the exemptions which we think it is expedient for the house to 'legalise and unction. We shall recommend with respect to all in dustrial incomes th et the exemption shall he limited to a year—(hear, hear)—that being the point at which we consider wages to cuter into the calculations. Upon incomes arising front property we take the peat of exemption at We a year. (Hear, hear.) I have now to detail to the house the rate of elettvence which we recommend to establish between schedules It, 11, and p, and the two schedules of realised property. (Beer, hear) I have already told the house that it is n o t our Weenie to inereaee the rate in schedules A and C. We peeves* to take them as they now exist—namely, at 7el. We prop ose that the rate upon the other seled u . et , should be esti mated at three-fourths of the present rate. The rate therefore, in schedules B, C, and D, w ill he meetly' djd., which is three-fourths of 7d. The produce of schedule A, I calculate, will be as heretofore, 2,649,0001. The produce of sched u l e B—the farmers' schedule—we propose to estimate in this manner. We take the estimated profits, not at one-half, Li is now the ease, but at one-third. (Hear, hear.) We have ineesti. gated this subject, and we find that, however active trade may be, the whole tendency of reeeut yea% has been to diminish profits, and I am quite persuaded that the test of tho farmer's profit has been placed too high. (H. ar. hear.) We have therefore taken the profit at one-thi r d instead of one-half. Consequently under schedule B we calculate upon 156.0t01., which is exactly half the present amount. From schedule C we calculate on as at present 716,000!. under the 7d. rate. From Hat the mitigated rate, we calculate on 1,162,0001. ; from E at the mitigated rate, 21't,0001. The total of the five schedules will therefore be 4,961,000/. I estimate the increa-e which will arise from industrial incomes up to W., end property incom aup to 501. a year, at 430,0001. But I think it right to say that in that estimate I have taken into emaideration the position of the clergy of the established church who hive not more than 100 i. The position of the cleritymaa, from thee manner in which the duty is raised, wo u ld b e a severe and unfair one. (Hear, hear.) He is rated under schedule Aat the highest scale, and would therefore have to pay according to that, whereas a dissenting minister having 1001. a year, being rated on the scale of salaries, would receive the advantage of the mitigated estimate. (Hear.) Now the position of a clergyman is, in truth, that of a man working for a salary, whilst, from the nature of the pro. perty out of which he obtains the sources of his mainte nance, he would derive no advantage from the reduced scale. It is neccesary, therefore, that a special provision should be introduced to meet his case. (Hear, hear.) The probable diminution on this account will be about 30,0e0/., but as this has been taken into account it would not of the figures I have already given. The total amount, therefore, is 5,361,6001. I out down Ireland at the modest sum of 60,000/. (Laughter.) The total sum, therefore, will be about 6,421,0001. Generally speak ing, I think the result will be that the average produce of the new property and income tax will bo nearly the Mlle as under the existing act. Perhaps it may be advisable to rgvide for some slight diminution, b u t genera ll y spea ki ng, p I think the produce will be the same as the averts pro duce during the last three years. 'Therefore, if the house agrees to our proposition, it will not elect our financial position. Assuming for the moment that the property and income tax, as I have now laid it before the hotter, will not affect our budget for the year, it now becomes my duty to approach the ways and means by %Inch the diminution of revenue, occasioned by the mea,ures I have proposed on the part of the government, may be met. (Hear, hear.) ;It is necessary for me, however, before that, to make some reference to a subject of great interest, and which will also increase our expenditure. It will be my duty, on an early occasion, to place before the house a supple mentary estimate of the expenditure this year, with refer ence to the national defences. (Hear, hear.) It will be of course necessary for me, in stating the expenditure and in. come for 1613-1854, to lay before the house the reasons which induce us to ask the house to take into consideration the necessity of the expenditure far this purpose ; but still this is a most convenient moment to advert to that subject. (Hear.) The government have arrived at the conviction— and tepidly of late have they arrive I ae. it -that it is of pri mary importance that the shores of this country should be protected, and that the defence of this country should be complete. (Hear, hear.) On considering the question, we thought that the best course was to do the thing coat plorely ; we thought that the best thing we could do was to put the navy of this country in the position in which 7 P3 believe all Englishmen wish to see it, and the plans which we have matured, and which if the house support our pro position will be carried into complete effect, are plans that will settle this question of national defence for ever - (ironical cries of " hear, hear ")—that is to say, you will have all your arsenals and strong points in the kingdom defended, and you will have a real channel fleet, which Can assemble from its different resdes- Tons is a moment when necessary, and which is the proper garrison and protection of the country. (lieu.) The atate of the finances, as I shall show in a few minutes, will perfectly warrant use in asking for the expenditure for the present year to be supplied from the ways and means, and for the next year we shall ask for an estimate which will increase our peeled estimates by about 600,0001. (Ministerial cheers.) Well, eir, having told the house that it will be my duty to ask for a supplementary estimate fur the expenditure of this year, which has oc curred since the appropriation act, I think it will be conve nient for me to give them some account of the present state of their finances, so that they may form an opinion as to what will be the surplus at the end of the present finan cial you, from which the supply must be 'Waded for the supplementary estimate, and for the expenditure of the year since the appropriation. The house will recollect that is the early part of the year, when I off e red an estimate of what would be the surplus, I said the amount would be 460,0001. But in making that statement I announced my intention of asking for a vote of 203,0001 additional for the Kaffir war. The committee will perhaps ate Meet that on a subsequent occasion I came down and announced that it would not be necessary to ask for that vote ; and, there fore, the estimated surplus, according to my statement, wee virtually a surplus of 660,000!. There hu been a reduction made in the biterost of the floating debt of about 400,0001., and that, in fact, would make an estimated surplus upon our data, which I had before me early in the year, of 700,0001. Now, I will show the house how our finances have been working since the commencement of the financial year in April. The state of our revenue is extremely favourable. (Cheers.) I calculated at tbe be ginning of the year that there would be a diminution of something more than 100,0001. on the customs. 1 took into consideration the stimulus given to consumption in the Exhibition year; I also took into consideration the tcduc tion that has taken place this year in the sugar duties. I thought, therefore, that we ought not to press too mach upon the customs; they had done their duty very wells and we must not be alarmed if there w as thi s y e a r a slight diminution. The street stimulus to the consumption of the Exhibition year, and the reduction in the sugar defies would, in my opinion, occasion sonic diminution, and I took that diminution at somewhere about 100,0001. Well, I think there will be a diminution in the Customs of about 100,0001. From the beginning of the financial year to the present time there has been generally an increase —it has fluctuated, but I think my estimate will be exactly fulfilled. I estimated a slight advance in the Excise—if I recollect right, 60,0001. There is at prevent a much greater increase in the excise ; but I am not prepared to aty that at the end of the present year my estimate will be exceeded; it perhaps may, but I think we ought not ho count upon that. I estimated that the stamps would be about the semi as last year. The stamps have increased every week the increase has never for a moment ceased, and the total in crease in stamps from the sth of April to the 27th of No ember was nearly 300,000!. I estimated • considerable reduction in the property tax. 1 said it was 114CCOUry to calculate that we might lose 150,0001. on that tax. The property tax, like the stamps, has been increasing even , week progreasively, and at present, instead of a limo( 150,0001., there is an increase of 187,00 01 • (Cheers.) It is not possible, of course, to give anything like a formal statement at this moment. 1 thought, how ever, that it would be agreeable to the house to learn these facts in an authentic manner. My estimated surplus being virtually 700,0001., I think it would be safe on the part of the committee to add 500,0001. to that from the inlan d revenue: that I think they ma y mos t sa f e ly a dd. Theresa some other increase upon which they may count; and ecte tainly, with regard to our surplus on the sth of Apral this year, taking the most prudent and the coidest calcidation, I think that instead of 460,000/., the amount which I CM. mated when I made my financial statement, we shall have something approaching to 1,000,000'. more than that: I do not think we can calc u l a t e u p on l ess . [s ome remarkin audible in the gallery was here made by a leading member of the opposition.] You roust rememlxe that I calculated upon 10d,0301. lees on the property too, and I think the whole amount will be from 1,300,000/. to 1,10 41 .00 1 . I think, therefore, that under those circumstances I may ask a vote for the increased expenditure of this year. [Aft ob servation wail here made in an undertone by Sir C. Wood.) I will put it on paper tomorrow or on Monday. . peopt 1831, !nen .1 rm p — r ward financ their I raj and ....