The Express. — London, England, 1848-08-23 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, AUGUST 23, 1848, SUGAR DUTIES BILL. On.the motion for the third reading of this bill, Lord G. BENTINCK said that all he asked by the present motion was that the Englishman who bonded sugar should be put on an equal Luting with the subjects of Holland, Bel gium, and Hanover—that be should be permitted, whether the sugar was British colonial sugar or foreign sugar, to en ter It paying the highest foreign duty on all that sugar. He eked that he should be entitled to enter his sugar, paying that duty, without betel{ obliged, as he new was, in order to obtain equal pm:lege, with the Dutchman, to carry over hie sugar to Anrsterdsm and then bring it back here. He did not think that a British House of Commons should allow such a • ',stem to continue— that the should be obliged to carry his sugar t to be entitled to the same privileges as the He was not asking for protection, but that ire felt play to the industry, skill, and. energy of their own countrymen • that they would not put • ba n on the refiners of England whilst they left freedom t nubleo the lord re finers of foreign countries. (Hear, hear.) The concluded by moving the following clause : A n d whereas It is expedient t o admit sugar, without payment of duty, to be relined for home consumption, under the lock of the crown, be it further enacted. that it shall be lawful tor any perron or persons who may be now, or who may be here. after engaged, under the provisions of the nets of the S & 4 Will. IV., c. at, and 6 & 9 Vie., g 91, in the trade of relining sugar in bond fee exportation, to enter the producta extracted from the Fame for home consumption,anything in the aforesaid act or ode, or any other act to the contrary notwithltandmg, at of dunce tern. if won foreign sugar, as rot forth in the third echedule of this act, under the same re:warrens as are now or may hereafter DO applied by her Mointy'e ofticers of custom , to the expel...rano of such vegtr; provided always, that such person or ',wens as afore paid ebail previously give bend to V c satisfaction of h her M jaestbeen y's commissioners of c ustoms to use such lOW only as eal hav imiea ted in grips privileged wider the navigation Uwe to impart sugar for entry to home consumption. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he had on:y the same answer to the noble lord that he gave before. He was not then going to give any opinion on the subject of a general system of refining in bond, but if any change was to he made it mu s t be a general one. lie seid before, and he now repeated, that her Majesty's good' meat would devote their attention to the subj, et during the recut. There were great practical ffifficultics its the way e f the pro posal of the noble lord. Mr. BERNAL thought that the noble lord, in proposing this clause,, had been &etre. d by those who instrunted nun to more it. He did not ask for that clause, but fie de manded as en act of judice to all that all descriptions of sugar should be admitted to be refined in this country. He did not leek up.n this as • romantic or hypothetical ea sure' he believed it to be perfectly practicable. Wnh geed to the general question of the Sugar Bill, le t him tell the house list by their merle of dealing with it they were playing with an important interest, and bringing ruin on tin se who were interested in the production of sugar. (Hear.) Since the late de ussions on this, subject the sugar market had been dries a down tt the extent of 31. per cwt. He spoke as a practical roan, and he said that by those dis cus fauns they bia to a certaia extent extracted from the re elects of those who were concerned in the growth of sugar 50s. or even 3!. for every hogehead of sugar. laet them come to some definite conclusion on the subject. Let then determine whether their colonies were worth pre serving or not. Ile asked no more than that they should virile to some decisive conclusion. (Hear, hear.) lie bed his own opinions. Ito did not blame ethers for having different skews; but, so help his God, he was pr, pared to assert 'hat they would not have their COi011ie• for three year, longer so es to be worth preserving. (Hear, heir.) They wo uld be redte e thm te such a state uf elistrese and nistead ot being e a credit to the mother country, tie,' be her disgrace. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GOULBURN agreed with the right hon. gentleman all to the necessity :or framing some general system, and of passing a me •sure embracing the whole question of refining sugars It bond, as well foreign as Braise colonial produce. huh el, he regretted the government had not thought proper to take this question into consideration at an earlier p. rival of the session ; but, as it was too Lee new, lie should lea' it his duty to vote against the amendment of his nole *fiend, b.cause it only elected a partial auu riot a general change. Mr. HERRIES complained of the great injustice done to the sugar interests by the frequent changes made in the duties by the government. Those asterations had had the effect of disoreauting the colonies and of renderiug them disaffected, and every packet brought fresh news of increasing disaffec ti.ei throughout the te est belies, He sbould give his vote for the clause. Mr. LABOUCHERE would not enter into the general question, as that had been suflicieutly debated, hut he would enly say that he differed materially from the rigl.t hon. gen tleman or posite, in thinking that the only means of relieving tee to est Indies we.s by imposing a permanent high protective duty. The ample:nig made by the noble lord of the pros tration of the sugar growers in the West Indies might be true to a c rtain event, but if he would look at au article in the Times of yesterday he would find that raw sugars were rising in price at Jamaica, (or a parcel was queted at 175. a cwt. which had only a few days before b , en offered at 12.. Lord G. BENTINCEI.—If the right bon. gentleman will read a little further he will find that the cause alleged for this rise in price is that the whist government was expected shrilly to he turned out. (A 1-ugh.) Pr. LABOUCHERE.—That expectation roes not alter the tact that sugar has risen in price at Jamaica. Mr. HUME declared his intention to vote for the clause, as the cffinitted reason for its rejection was the ditheulty mete by the customs cellars in respect to levying the duties. If the right hon. gentleman chose he could compel those Aticers to do their duty, and not to impede a wholesome reform by excuses of that kind. Mr. IfAILLIE net that he found upon censid , ration that the sugar refiners were treated with great injustice by the eel' before the house, and he should therefore support the clause of the noble lord. Mr. MOFFATT also stated that he could discover no valid niecin for not insertir.g the clause in the bill, and he sheik' certainty feel it to be his duty to vote for it. Mr. M'GREGOR said that unites some general measure for refining Britian and foreign sugars in 'mud for home con sumption and for exportation was uevised no good could be effected, and he sheulis therefore vote against the partial proposition embodied in the present dense. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer had made every inquiry with respect to the possibi ity of allowing refiners to reties in bond for home as well as f foreign consumption, but at present the difficulties were found to be so great as to oppose insuperable obiectiatis to such a plan. He hoped inn Car days to be enabled to lay the most recent despatches received from the West Indite ou the table of the house, when he should be prepared t state the views which ho entertained with respect to those colo nies. 1 Hear.) Mr. G. THOMPSON said that the English refiners in bond had • right to be placed in as favourable a position u the Dutch refiners, and he should, therefore, vote for the &ALM, as ing one step towards effecting that object. He believed the re was se me Dutch influence at the bottom of the government opposition to the clause, for on no other grounds could be explain the conduct of ministers, (Hear, and • laugh.) Mr. J. WILSON said that the clause was brought for ward by the noble lord, not in consequence of the wishes of the body of refiners on general, taut at the instance of a single house, which combined the two trades of refiners is hood for the export market, and of refining for the home arket, e whou peculia business the elates was exprees m ly framed to accommodate. r Se tars l being in accordance with the interest or wishes of the other sugar refiners the clause was strongly opposed by them, and he had only that day presented a petition signed, amongst others, by one of the first sugar refrain:, Louses in London against the proposition of the noble lord, The house di,idtd. — Fcr the c l a use 4O Against it 7O-30 The clause was consequently rejected. Died G. BENTINCK moved, in schedule 2, " That the brown cloyed duties be severally reduced to 16s. 6d., 15s. 11., 145., 12,.9.1., 12.. 31., Ils. 64. ; and, in schedule 4, in the first column of drawbacks, 16s. 4d. be reduced to Ifs. 3d. With respect to the second part of his amendment, the noble lord said that the errs: it sought to remedy was of no commercial imeortance, his object being merely to correct a blunder of :he R etht lion, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the noble lord was wrong in hie calculatious ; but, whether or not, on the noble lord's own aemiasion the matter was of no commercial importance, and therefore he (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) would not take up the time of the house with i:s discussion. The house divided, a separate division being had on each sent. amendOn first—Against On the second—For IG Against The bill then passed. SUPPLY. The report of the cerereitme of supply (Irish miscellaneous estimates) was brought up and agreed to. The house adjourned at half-put 3to half-past 5 o'clock.;, The house resumed at halt-past 6 o'clock. THE INDIAN MAILS. Mr. OSBORNE wished to know from the Secretary of the Admiralty— Whether any and what tenderewerereceived by the Admiralty foe the converance of the Calcutta mails, monthly, betneen Southomoton and Alexandria, in oonaequenoe of their advertisement of the 17th day of April laid; and it one, from whom, and the amount of each tender re. apectively :—also, whether soy tender, so received, has beetsacc t epted, and, if so, nnme the party an d the sum agreed upon 1 Sod i have so hap' enrol that no tenders were received, then state wine. other ars nnge ments have been made for performing the service, so the with the Peninsular and Oriental Compaq expares on the 31st day of Dec. next. He should also wish to know whether the report that the mails were to he conveyed by war steamers was correct? Mr. WARD said there was no intention on the part of the government. to convey the mail by war steamers. Two ten ders had been received in answer to an advertisement from the government, but both had been rejected, because it was considered that they were much higher than the government bad a right to expect. As there were negotiations going ea for a performance of the contract on more reasonable terms the house would excuse him for not entering at large epos the eubjeet. But he hoped to effect a considerable saving et the public money.. (Hear.) Mr. HUME wished to inquire of the President of the Board of Control why the same facilities of send'ng and eh , - , 1 misting parliamentary papers by mail were not afforded is the case of India and China as of any other possession e l l the crown ? Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said the reason Was, that In con sequence of the rate o f p osta g e those papers were sent in private vessels round the Cape. With regard to the charges in India, any papers welt from one place to another were charged by weight, and the home government had no right to interfere. COUNTY COURTS. Capt. PECHELL wished to know from the Secretary of State what were the intentione of the government with re spect to the remuneration of the bailiffs of the County Courts? Sir G. GREY said that considerable difficulty , was found in providing due remuneration for high bailiffs in the sgri mattered districts. If a general table of fees WB5 adopted, it would raise the remuneration in populous districts beyond all prop •rtion. (Hear, beer.) An inquiry was now going on, and he hoped the result would be that the high bailiffs would be rendered unnecessary. As the ditties were per formed by assistants he d.d not think they had much ground of complaint. Mr. NEWDEGATE said that several complaints had Leen made in the district which he represented that different clerks of the County Courts resided at a great distance from the immediate locality of the courts. Sir G. GREY said that several complaints had r - aehed him on that subject, but measures were in contemplation which would remedy the evil. Till AltelAH OF SATTARA. In reply to the following questions by Mr. 0. TUOMPSON : Whether any Info:toad= Ims reached this country relative to the intentions of the Inchon government respecting the succeseion to the vacant Cladeeog &Wars; ender what circumstances the adminiatra ton of affairs re Sextant la at present conducted, and who are the parties responsible for them anagement of the revenues of that tel by re. t h ey: for what reason the sum of tiny thousand rupees ioisigned te government of India for the payment of charges ounnectud situ the funeral obsoluic a of the late Rajah of Setters, Pertsub Sing, his been withheld fro, ehalem Slaharoj, the adopted run of hie highnera; why the eilowanee of ten thou.nil mine monthly, puidmut of the revenues of the :Intern state, to the late ROA Pertaith Sing. for the maintenanc of himself, his family, and hie dependents, has been suspended piece Ms higliners'a death; whether, in Uu event of re fusing to allow of the SUCAOSAWI of Skshoo Stahare): the adopted son of the late carob, to the (Melee of Saluda, the gave' nment will wel der themselves of liberty to ranetion the annexation of the Sattura territory, without the previous coment of parliament ; Sir J. C. HOBROUSE said that in geyser to the first question he had to sly, No. In reply to the second, the an ewer era., that at present the Bondi Resident at Saone was conducting the government, and eras responsible to the government of Bombay. lie employed the native agents who hart lieen employed during the lifetime of -he late r jab. With regard to the third ,vowquestion as per lectly true that a lean of 60,000 rupees (5 00014 allowed, and a very handsome allowance it was, for the funeral of the rajah. But hie widow roused to tette that s ens, and would not give a receipt for it unless the mine 1.11111 was given to the adopted son of she raj as was Oven to the late rajah. As she would not gi • conmen rece it was resolved that she sho ve uld eat have the ipt money. With rcepect to the fourth question, the reason was that the rajah was dead, and it was never intended or stated that the personal allowance to him should be continued to his son. With respect to the filth questiop the simple snows? was that the government of India were entrusted by parlia ment with those high function; and therefore a previous sanction was not n em ssarv. SUGAR RETURNS. Lien 0. BENTIN C K rose to nerve for returns, showing in sontigueets columns the impoiset ions of !Mesh po.seislon, and of for, ign sugar", as given respectively in tiala monthly returns of the Board of Trade, and of those of the customs for the months of September, October, November, and December of last year ; and showing the importations of these various descriptions of sugar, at made up by the cus toms in each of the above menthe, thatinguialling the amount of sugar imported into the five ports of London, Liverpeol, Bristol, Hull, and the Clyde, from the anieunts imported in the same p riots trim the remaining ports of the United Kingdom. lie ware induced to make this metier% because he found that great decrepancii s existed be tween the returns of the Board of Trade and what wire called the customs bills. In one case the Board of fora retur "Mowed an importation of West India augur r the mon th s of Decent ter and J entity, to the amount el 23,72.1 tons, whilst the customs bills shewe d an entry of only 14,019 tons, being a difference ot no lem than 9,1,73 bins. The customs made up their returns from day to day, whilat the Beard of Trade dill sot intervals of three or four weeks, so that it the latter were wrong, these woe the less excuse fur it. At all events, there must be errors on some side, and it was right that they should not tick,. place, b eeus , such fal lacious returns had effected the ruin of many prudent specu lators. Mr. LAI3OUCHERE said that the noble lord had in the present 1. stance made one of those discoveries which went by the name of mere's nests. It wou'd be very surprising if the returns of the Beard of Trade and the customs bills did tally ex ictly. The customs bills were made up 'rum officiel documents. But they were published by a committee, and so there were no means of testiee the it acetic icy, the cus toms was by no means responsible :or their accuracy, althouith he had tio eoubt they were in the main comet. What they tad in the Board of Trade waste eild the heures given them by the custom.. There woo no room for charging either the 13 , and of Trade or the customs with in accuracy. He hoped the noble lord would net press the former part of his motion; to the letter he had no objection. After a few words from Lord 0. Mr. HUME said that it would save tune, trouble, and ca per,. , if whaler forms were prepared by each department of the public service, which could ha filled up whenever returns were asked f r. Mr. ROBINSON did not think tint the explanation of the right hon. gentleman had ac. merited for the great 6ifference which wee ahowir tot sine by the noble lord in the returns of the Board of Trade end customs. After a few words hem Mr. Ileeeev, Sir C. Wool', and Mr. SitouNnit, Mr. WILSON t xplaffii el that the apparent discrepancie s between the two lists referred to by the noble lord arose from the circumstance that the one nag copied hoe the ships' manifests tee they we re reported, whereas the customs or official returns were only compiled ;Jeer the ships' cargoes had gone through all the entries re e uired by the customs duties laws. Mr. 111•OREGOR said that he was quite convinced that a total change must take pl.e.e in the mode of making out official returns. Mr. 'DISRAELI said it had been his lot to hear the noble lord charged with discovering n.ar. 's erste no less than nix times dominghe preseet seesion, eut it so hapeerted that every one of tho se nests had turned out t he reinarkal•ly prolific. Thus the Chancellor had admitted the truth of the noble lord's proent enarge, and another hon. member had admitted that the noble lord's statement proved that great Worms were requisite and would be effected in the motoms department, so that the noble lord's mare's nest had again proved resonant in a very striking manner. Mr. LABO CCHEM: said he had no objection to the re turns being made, but only protested limiest the statements of the noble lord in respect to them. Sir It. PEEL said it would he establlshing a dangerous precedent to [sanction returns being laid on the table of tee house which were not derivt d from official authority. The semimfficiel returns referred to by the noble fort might be supplied without Riving them het tamp of official authority. Lord J. RUSSELL mid that e returns mu.t. be given upon a very different plan from that tit emote by the noble lord, and quite divested from all official sanction. Mr. HERMES said that the returns moved for by the noble lard would not effect thc object sought for by him ; if government would agree to supply the informatiou required it would far better arewer the purpose. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER undertook to perform this task alit was left to the government by the noble lord. Atter a few word, from Mr. BnoWN, Lord G. BENT I NCK withdrew his.motion on the under standine offered by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Motion by leave withdrawn. COMMERCIAL DISTRESS.—REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE. Mr. HERItIES brought forward his motion for calling the attention of the house to the reports from the committees or this house and the House of Lor is on commercial distress, end to move that this house will, early in tie next session, take the same into its serious considetetion, and stated that he had dune so necause it was impossible that the subject could be gone into during the present session; and also, fearing lest the public should suppose that the important subject of the two reports was to he pas-ed over without any notice whatever by parliament. The right hon. gentleman then entered into as historical statement of the circumstances out of which the appointment of the two parliamentary com mittees on commercial distress arose, commeneing with the introduction by Sir it. Peel of the currency measures of the ' session of 1844-5. All these things might have happened without anything occuring to bring the theory and principle of this act to the test for grneratiens ; but it so happened that it had been fully and fairly tested within the short pe riod of three years.. He thought it might now be asserted without fear of contradiction that it had not prevented ex travagant spenul then or extraordinary fluctuations in the value of money. (Hear, hear.) They had Yen the Beek charging at one period three and at another ten per cent. for discounts. (Hear, hear.) Neither had this measure se cured the convertibility of money, which had b en an nounced so one of its main objects. (near, hear.) But it was not enough to show that the act had not done what it had promised ; he WAS also prepared to show that it had verified many of the predictions of its opponents. (Hear, hear.) For this purpose it would be sufficient fur him to state that within a comparatively short period of its enact ment government were obliged to step in and suspend its provisions. (Hear, hear.) What had parliament done in that crisis—a parliament summoned chiefly on account of the emergency it had created? It confirmed the suspension by the government of the act of 1844. (Hear, hear ) In the observations he was about to make he should confine himself to the restrictive clauses of the act, end his object was to induce the house to give the public reason for hoping that those provisions would be taken into considera tion, with a view to their modification, in the ensuing see ' Ilea. Government had anticipated him in some sort by toeing early for a committ - e, but the only effect of that had - een to throw the matter over to the present late period of the session ; and, besides, the composition of that committee had been far from satisfactory. Of twent)-six members, au unusually large number, oily eight or nine were of views different from them 01 the government, the rest being indif ferent or strong parti-ans of the set. Abut the same time the Lords had appointed a similar committee, and it was to the reports of these two committees he wished to draw the attention of the house, in the hope that they would induce the house to accede to the present mo tion. The Commons hail rep - orted in favour of the act, but, as he thought he should be able to prove, without sufficient Justification from the evidence. (Hear.) The House of Lords, on the contrary, had reported on the same evidence that the principle of the act of 1844 required amendment, in as tar as the restrictive clauses were concerned. Here, then, were two committees reporting in direct opposition. ( Hear.) Now he should, in the first place, endeavour to show on how slender a foundation the Commons' report was based, and how inconsistent it was with the evidence taken. (Hear.) A resolution to that effect was mooted in the com mittee itself, but it was overruled by the dexterity of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who brought in to vote at the eleventh hour hon. members who had not previously honoured the committee with their presence, and conse quently heel not heard a tittle of the evidence. He could not help observing another remarkable circumstance con nected with that committee. Six of its members were mer cantile men, and of them five voted constantly with the minority. (Hear, hear.) He should now attempt an analysts of the evidence taken before that committee, They had examined 26 witnesses, two only of whom were connected with the East Indies, reducing the number whine evidence bore directly on the question to 24. Those he would distr.bute into five classes. The first and most im portant class consisted of the persona delegated by great commercial bodies to represeat their opinion. This classcon taMed lour witnesses—Mr. Bevan, who was deputed by the London bankers ; Mr. Birkbeck, by the country bankers ; Mr. Kinnear, from the beakers of Glasgow; and Mr. hiTarlane, from those of Edinburgh. The opinions of all those gentlemen were to the effect that the act of 1844 had hail an injurious operation, and required amendment. (Hear, hear.) The second class represented what he would term the co-operative banks, and consisted of eight persons. Of these gentlemen the governor and deputy-governor of the B i w an k MrEtina,lnanodn,na,nl;dihMinr. th Co e tto ßa n , , , k w o e f re i t in t faanvdougrovfetahoeuant o r f . o g f av w e i th t neeisTS.opizivonsiotifajvioiunt dividuals of great knowledge and experience in the money o t •i f li m o p e i: d i ° o n e ..? f t h T e he other th ir f d o ur clanall market of Linden. Of these, Mr. Gurnee, the greatest mom y dealer in the world, Mr. Bates. ot the great house of Bating, brothers, and Mr, Horsley Palmer, gave the meat decided opinion in favour of amending the act. The next class represented the provincial monied interest, and con silted of six persons. These were Mr. Prow, representieg the mining int rest ; Mr. Salt and Turnerr, M. Monts, f ro eri m lu Ber,in- , m i ng ham ; Mr. Hodgson, r. and Mr. from Metiehester. The right bon. gentleman proceeded to read extracts from the evidence of the above itsse the prepon derance of which, he contended, was n favour of alteretem. In short all, he said, even those most favourable to ti' act ol 1844, gave testimony in favour of some sort of a relaxing power. (Hear, hear.) Some, indeed, including Messrs. Mentz and Salt, went against the currency system ultogetherethe act of 1819 as well as that of 1841. The Melt no Ch wn M , contested of those gentlemen wi.o were a ) well k by their writing( on fikatnee, and comprhed Mr. Jones Loyd, Mr. Tooke, and Mr. Taylor. 01 th.eo Mr. Loyd was opposed teeny change, Mr. Teoke was in favour of some re. taxation, and Mr. Taylor opposed the ant altogether. So that of these 24 witnesses, 19 were sealing the act, 1 was of undecided (vitae's, and 4 were decidedly in ferour of the act. (Hear, hear.) Afier this sisal saes could the Meese be ether-waft thou surprised at the conclusion to which the committee had come 1 (Hem, hear.) 'they add " After a careful review of the evidence we have coine to the eon. elusion that the act dots not re q uire alteration." (Hear. hear.) They came to alit conclusion by the force of no:limes, but cm tainly nut in areord awe with the weight of t vidence. Now, the Para" persons were exa mire d by the Lords an by the Cunmons t the evi dence was in effect the saute, Ina. the Leeds came to a ter different conclusion. There neve these three elements to be considered in loeking at the operation ef tine ac of 1844. The first was the le ter of the Treasury, which the hou s e hate re cegnis el, and which -ffirm“l line position that the act rt quired amendment. The L•tr ns• report, pointed to a similar conclusion, and the preponderating tenor of the evidence, all of which was iu favour of eheration. The inquiries of u ttli helots to which oe had hail had two objects. First, to as'er tsiu the causes of c .mmereetl distr. ss ; and secondly, in how tar those causes had bet n aggravated by the operation at the act of 1814. some attributed the distress to the reduction of discounts to 21 per cent by the Bank, and the sudden expan- RIM and sub.equent collapse which was the con ecetence. 'Po that opinion he did not attach much importance. Many causes had no douet operated, Lut lie in le himself incompe tent to give a p ~hive opinion. But the gre.nt Niel of ingutry was the opt ration on the act of 1814 t on she Me row, and the mineral opinion was that it had produced great aggraiation. His hope was that alter all the events art which they were hignisant the subject was one which the house would not let bleep, out that they would ultimately niche such changes as the country demended in our existing monetary es etem. Bather in the session, when he hail asked (mem= relaxation, he was tubl that a committee was sitti• g; but what were they to be told now 1 Perhaps they would he tobl that they hail the same wisp g .verinment to letterer° as they bad done in October, 1817. (Hear, hear.) But his answer was that the government could not so interfere until great mischief bee been done, and his Mese was to prevent the evil by timely interference. (Hear, hear.) At that late period of the as anion lie c mid not call on these members who had gone aav sy to come back, he could not ask for an immediate deci 6011, but lie thought he was not asking toe much in entreat ing the house to promise that early next *melon they would take so important a subject into their consideration. Ile had nut leached upon the questi ea of the country banks, not loeceuse he undervalued their import-mix, but because his object was to c intim himstlf to the most important considerations connected with the act of lb 44. Mr. DEC ►MONI) observn d that the right hon. gentle man bad asked the Louse to promise seriously to madder this subject next session in order to' arrive at a final settle ment. lie hid no hope of a thud settletut nt of a question which had been now in dispute for Ij/0 ),LIV. UV should • ite ag.ims the motion. Mr. N EWDEUATE thought tbe lateness cf the session Was no reason why the house atiould refuse to do its duty in promising to review a system under the o p eration of which 143 first-clue mercantile houses had within three months ent Ist autumn eeen compelled to mom ml proem The weight of evidence before the committee of the House of Conanum, and the opinion expressed by the committee of the Lords, int nn conclusive as to tee limit topes d by the act of 11441 On the Beek of England en the free use of bullion as the basis of issue being prejudicial to the Iceitimate com merce of the country. lie wareed the house as to what might be the conseque rice if a deficient harvest this year. He feared that if ouch a inietortune should occur there would result disaaters to our commerce still greater teen those which had been experienc.l last year. Ile hoped, there fore, that the house wound not separate without holding out the hope that they would cousider the q stein as soon as they again met, art that teey would not wait for the recurrence of distress before they held out to the commercial interest the hand of assistance and sueport. When he looked at the falling off in our exports (the im ports nut hoeing decreased) during the last two yeatts, and the MT:reiation in their value, which was equal to 2G per cent., and remembered the tendency of our currency lows, with the prospect of a failing harvest and the consequent im pnt of large quantities of corn to Le paid for in gold, he would a- k whether the prospects of the ensuing autumn did nut justify the house iii coming to the revolution proposed by his right hon. friend ? An lion. Memisett here moved that the house be counted, but there being 4tl meenb.n present, Mr. N WDEG ATE proceeded. lie was not desirous of oecups leg the time of the Louse, and rather than risk an abrupt termination to the debate, he wuuld take the hint which had, just been given iu the attempt to count out the house, and sit down. The S.HANCkILLOR of the EXCHEQUER could fine no ground in the reference which the hon. gentleman had mada to thin ire - torts and exports in favour of this motion. He admitted the importance of the question, and that it was one which might rom rly be brought forward next 'mem, as early as the right hon. gentleman (Mr. llerries) thought tit : but to minnow a resolution such as that proposed would be an extra edihary and a bootless proceeding. lie should not, therefore, meet the motion with a direct neg.'. tire, but move the previous questions upon it, as ex pressive of the view he took, which was that while ad mitting the importance of the subject, be deprecated a course so inconvenient to that of pledging the house in one session _s to what it would do in the next, the circumstances of which they could not foresee. As to the charge thet he had appointed on the committee a great majority of members pledged to his own views, or rather to the act of 1814, he must remind the right hon. gentleman that almost all the decisi Its of the committee were come to by a majority of two only. This did not show that there was any overwhelm ing majority one way or the other. The right hon. gentle man had complained that the committee had not taken the same view as the majority of the witnesses. But it was a mist extraordinary position to take—when a committee was appointed to inquire iota rini' report upon any given subject, test they eh re not to s xercise their own discretion, that they were to form no opinion of their own; but that they must be guided altogether by the witnesses, without weigh ing or considering the relative value art their evidence. If the committee were not permitted to come to a conclusion for themselves —opposed, it need be, to the majority of the evidence—it w. uld be useless to appoint a deliberative body at all: it would be sufficient to have a shorthand writer to take notes of the examination. Bat though much valuable evidence had been adduced be was not prepared to -secede to the accuracy of all that the right bun. gentleman had quoted. Take the old , rice of the Governor of the 13 inh of Ireland, which the right bon gentleman itemised to inter was not worth much, as that gentleman was doubtful as to the effect of tie- bill of 1841. On referring to that evidence he found that the witness mpressed an opinion that the act had been useful in putting a stop to banks which should never have been pe-ntitted ; and that it had effected an improvement in the system of banking generally in Ireland by giving greater stability to the banes and more confidence to tie public ; though it was true that with regard to the Bank of Ireland, he thought it would have been better had it not been eeprived of the privileges it previously possessed. The evidence of this gentleman, there fore, was nut doubtful, but favourable to the act of 1844. With regard to the causes of the commercial distress of the previous year, the report of the lords' Committee, as well as that of the Commons, was, that the - speculation in railwaes and the consequent withdrawal of large amounts of capital ' from other pursuits, together with the demand for foreign corn, had been amongst the chief. This was the view taken by the hon. member for Westbury and him self--(hear, hear) ; and Mr. Anderson, of Glasgow, in his evidence. stated that the boucle which suspended payment in 1817-48 were in almost every case more or lee etwaged in railway speculation. Mr. Gurney also stated most distinctly in his evidence before the Lords' committee that in his opinion the act of 1844 had nothing to do with causing the commercial distress of the country, and that there were ample causes for the failures which occurred in dependently of the operation of that act. He (the Chancel lor of the Exchequer) thought therefore that he was fully justified in saying that the 143 failures to which the hon. gentleman (Mr. Newdegate) had alluded were not owing to the act in question. According to the evidence of Mr. Gurney, the restrictions imposed by the act did not operate at all, but those failures took place before that period. (Hear, hear.) He remembered saying on a previcus occasion that the absence of precautionary measures on the part of the Bank of England had, in some degree, contributed to the result, and this view was fully borne out by the testimony of the Deputy-Governor of the Busk. Mr. Glyn, in his evidence stated, that the alarm which had previously existed had become aggravated about the beginning of October, but that a great change took place when the government letter was issued. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had stated the same thing as a ground of justification for the course the government took. Mr. Gurney's evidence Ras not opposed to the principles of the act, but in favour of some relaxation of its restrictive powers. But he contended that the committee were justified, not merely in taking evi dence, but in weighing the facts adduced in support of the opinions of the several witnesses, and if they thought those facts did not warrant the (minium they were right in reporting in favour of an opposite conclusion. (Hear.) With regard to the beneficial opera tion of the sot of 1844 when exchanges are adverse and there is a drain of gold all the witnesses agreed. All admitted that in the event of a foreign drain and a dimitnution in the quantity of bullion, • reduction of the issues of paper was to Mr. Loyd, tended to raise prices and the only legitimate and safe comic The undue issue of therefore krestriction of paper issues p p r a o p m er o , t a e oe sp o ec rd u in ia g tion ; must be beneficial, and in no respect had the act of 1844 been more beneficial than in limiting the issues of country banks, especially during the last two years, the evils of which would have been mischievously aggravated had un limited issues been permitted. If this was the cue with re- Eurahman o 1116111MIU it.Asm w• to Amsterdam Dutchman. I they would. giY IMPER:AL PALM LA.MhA t. HOIiSF. OF LOIWS.—TtaesDAT, AUG. 22. The Loath Cithrecatroon took his seat at five o'clock. PUBLIC BUSINESS. AVOND READING s.— Parochial I tebt and Audit; Poor Removal (No. 2); Ointment lucheure (No.:); Bids. Out Pensioners ; COMMITTEEn.—Steek In Tote Exemption; Farmers. estate Sod, ty (Inland) ; Bills. REPORT.:.—Bunnigh Ineurponvion; PoOr LAW Union Charges Ifo.2); Hills. Tlllha READINGS.—Tithe Rent Charge, lee. (No. 21; Steam hlvvilattion ; A ec-isionable Manors Coinme.sbmers Rae; Pay; Poor Law Union Ilistlict Schools ; Turnpike Acta 'Continuant* ; Par:- Sate:hoary Eiectoin, tiOst 110Na' AMEN OMENTS CONSIDERED. —Criminal Law Ad. mlniuratian Amendment Bid. PE l WandlTlON. d REDEiDALE, from the elecntof prat mu to be by counael at the bar of the h on or spoon the Corrupt Practices , at EXCEOII4 THE SLAVE TRADE. teed DENMAN moved, That s humble b 3 repented to her aesty, praylae that hcr Maj a esty will be goer:oust, &arm to gi M ra ve directions for the en foreeniont of all treaties with foreign harts fur the extinction of the slave trade on the coast of Africa, and tor the prow.cittion of ail Brinell subject., directly or indirectly concerned in violating the I;tWe aguinet e- that One ; tied that her alsjedy w ill be gran ciouegy pleased to take into tor ceriotei consideration the exp edienc y or converting measures with her antes f r declaring slave triune piracy, with a punishment lees vere than that now incurred emoting to the Woe of ILLENIS forth,: crime. A committee had been appointed to consider the best means for the maim:tan of the have trade ; and he must own there was something ominous in the proceedings of that com aitte in e, and & va he ne belie of ved letaving here was the a slave preconceived op on trade free to any one who these to deal in it. Such was the oratnien of one of the witeessee ex twined before th it committee, in whom they seemed to have placed great confider. , a. That withers said that it would be th.st ii,eirable to withdraw the squadron from the cast of Africa, and leave the slave trade open to be pursued by any nation which chose to deaf in such an infamous traffic. Thera were two propositions in favour of this view ; tate first wan that the slave trade could trot be put down- -that Hud wart • cif:shay of de mend, and the supply could be ob.-t r ined by no ether means; and secondly, that the squad. run hod doe more harm than rood, having aggravated the horrors a rid euelty of this w:cked traffic—that the attempts to suppress the cloy , trade hail, in fact, aggravated its hor rors. The noble and teemed had then proceeded to combat both tit• se prepositions, insisting tbat the slave trade had been suppressed to a very great • xtent. In '_efferent places where thIP exportation had been from oce to twelve thetas iiid, the trade had been entirely put down. In many parts of the coast the traffic in slaves had been uite abendoeed, while it hal net increase.: in others. lu q 1813 cony of tie : clove dealers had le es the coast to crime in other pursuits, for it was then thought hat the Brice,. government were,iir ,arrest it. their attempts to put down the slave trade; but cubic quently a retort won carried out to the coast of Africa that the House of Commons had rebelled against the Queen—that Lord Peltnerston h_d hen earl itieed to thd peptear clamour, and the slave trade had been revived. (A laueh.) This report gained prevalence, and the ititatnoes trade no doubt obtained a slight stimulus in consequence of it; but ha was convinced treat if more vigorous measures had been adopted this drethful and un righteous teethe would have been extinct ere this. (Hear, hear.) The evidence of Mr. Clot seemed to have had great weisht with the committee of the ether house. lie intreated the house not to be led awdy by pireel statem-nts fth evi deuce w hien had been given on this subject, tor attempts were being mode to prejudice the public mind by directing attention to portions only at that evideuce. He trusted, however, that the pubic would wait tor a digest of the whole of it, and he was cuuti tut it would prove that this accursed traffic might be sumed, end that the squadrou on the coast of Atria lad doue much to effect so desirable an olject. The noble and learned lord c :neludErl by moving the address. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was sure the house would feel gra•etui to his nuote and learned friend for the able manner in which he had treated the subject. He felt it, ho sore duty to move she previous question, because, look ing at the terms of the trio:roared the circumstance to which his noble and learned hind had adverted, that this ins portent sub ect tied only recently been before a committee of the other house, it might be inferred from the terms of this motion that there bad been a remissness on the pot of the Queen's government in carrying r ut the existing treaties on the subject of the slave trade. and also because the motion scow d to prejudge the committee of the House of Commons. He thought it expedient, Mae their lordships prorounctd an opinion on the subject so h. stily,thet they should examine the evidence, and decide on the policy they would adopt, not abating one jot of their determination to bring the infamous slave trade to ultimate ( :arms:ion. (Cheers.) If one man more then another hof shown himself to be a constant arid firm supporem of misting treeties for the sup pression of the 'lave. trade it was his noble friend the secre tary fur foreign aff sirs, sad he thought it must be admitted that he had loft no means untried to give effect to such trea ties, with a view to pet an end to this wicked traffic. (Hear, hear.) With regard to tee participation of indridual Eng lishmen who were colp chi. and crieinal enough to be en gaged in a traffic se bok the laws of their country had stamped with ignominy, there sou no doubt that such had been the ease, and his n !fiend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had not o nitled to notice the subject, which had been referred to the law officers of the crown, who were of opinion that Englishmen in foreign countries who might be engaged directiyer indirectly in the slave trde, or who might take :laths in execution for debt, were guilty Wan offence against the law, and were amenable to punish meet. His noble friend had instructed British comets to proc!aitn the law of this country en the subject of the slave trade, and its consequerces. He thought that to make the slave trade piracy, with a modification of the punishment . attached to that crime, would be perhaps the best means of putting an end to it. He was not prepared to pro. nouace an opinion on the subject twenty-four hours only after the puleicatie n of the evidence Vetere the committee of the ether house on the subject • but he trusted it might be productive of the object which he be lieved they sin desired, namely, the extinction of the slave trade ; and he hoped the time would never come when any countenance would he given, directly or indirectly, to the statement that is writ the intention or the present govern ment to abandon their determination to put down a traffic which had been the curse of the world, and at one time a stigma on our national character. (Laud cheers.) For the reasons, however, which he had before stated, he felt himself bound to move the previous question. Lord BROUGHAM said the statement of the noble and learned lord was &nest invaluable as a statement of the argu ment ; his demonstration had been complete, convincing, sad trine . phaat of the unfounded nature of the two propositions which he had assailed, :tamely, that the slave trade had in creased in spice of our efforts, and that the British legislature was in reality an accessary before the fact to the horrors of the slave trade. Had any one entertained doubts as to the policy of continuing these efforts, those doubts must have been removed by the argument 01 the noble and learned lord. The noble lord ended by expressiog a a hope that the declaration just made by the noble marquis (Lansdowne) would go forth as a counterpoise to the report of that com mittee to which thlusion had been made. After a few words from the Earl of WALDEORAVE, Lord DENMAN t xpressed a hope that the fullest attesta tion of parliameetary approval would be given to the con duct pursued by toe government ; and referred to what had taken place in .ormer sessions. he motion was then put and negatived without a di vision. PARLIAMENTARY ELECTORS BILL. Lord BEAU most moved the third reading of the Par- Tatnentary Electors Bill. Lord RE DESDALE said his objections to this bill had not been removed by the alterations which had been made in committee. The measure had been carried o sly by a majority of four in the other house—it involved a material alteration of the Reform Act which, it wse admitted, ought not to be lightly touched—it had come up at too late a period of the session to be fully discussed, and, on these grounds, he moved as an amendment that the bill be read a third time this day six months. Their lordships divided—Fo r mat it the third readir g.. 3 28-31 On the motion of Lard BEAUMONT, the substitution of the bth January :or the 11th October, in reference to the bill coming into operation was agreed to, end the hill waspassed. CRIMINAL LAW ADMINISTRATION BILL. On the motion of Lord eminent., the Commons' amend ments on the Criminal Low Administration Bill were, after a few words teem Lord DENMAN and the Earl of Devon, agreed to. Their lordships adjourned at 25 minutes before 9 o'clock till Thursday. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TuzsbAt, AUG. 22. The SPEAKER took the etiair at 12 PRIVATE BU.INESS. REPORT CONsIIIERY.O.-London (City) Sewers Bill. THIRD READING. --Virgin Mary flagrant (Newcastle-upon-Tyne) Bill. PUBLIC BUSINESS. SECOND READING. -Bankrupts' Release Bill. COMMITTEES.-Millbauk Prison; Yever (Ireland) ; Bills. REPORT.-Dublin Police Bill. THIRD READINGS. -Sugar Duties; Unlawful Oaths (Ireland); Wolverhampeiri Currey (No. 2); Bills. RETURNS ORDERED.-On the motion of Col. DUNNE, return of all fees payable in England and Ireland on the cancelling crown bonds and recoenisanc , 5, mentioning to whom they are payable, and on what authority. NOTICES OF SIOTION.-Dovcre , is IIinIANT.-Sir D. NOR. REES, on Friday nest, to bring under the cimelderadom of the house the subject of a general rating, fur the relief of the approaching dis tress lu Ireland. Gtatinearion OF M131110115.-Mr. OSBORNE, next scab)°, to more for the repeal of the act requiring a property qualificition for members to sit In parlbunent. aePETITIONS.-by Mr. J. WILSON. from the sugar refiners of London, praying alehouse to postpone legialattin on this subject tin next sedan.—Mr. 0. THOMPSON. from the agent of the late Rapti Of Batista in this country, stating that the family of the late Rajah were left in a state of great dilate., and praying that their case might be taken into consideration by the houv. - - - - -------------- gard to country banks, similar issues by the Bank of Eng- right hen. friend was to bring en his motion. 0, me , land, unbar. d on bullion, would have produced in all (the present) 'light teen were 42 members e o e seo ., probability the same results. The get of 1844 had not pre- when an hon. gentleman waved that the Meuse en - " nee s vented the Bank from giving legitimate asurtance to coos - Now, he sicked, was it likely, if the question wee h i le' e s e . ion on the qe to mere.; in fact, it had gives. such onistance until the prevurc such importance, that that would be the case ? If e .e ,o e w, of 1847, and when extraordinary circumstances occurred, hon. friend would not invite them to come to at. present erdinery interference and for relaxing the reetrictionsimpo , ed. come to an engagement as to what they 'mule e: — n z Tne tenour of the evidence given before the committees of year? Then h's right hon. friend cold teat the home ---e ' the Reuses of Lords and Commons corroliorseed the views of leer • wounded Noe° dragged tts dow t he h the government on the grounds on which they had acte J. If it was so, he (Sir it. Pi el) said, let Lot the hoilse no. It was admitted that in the cote of adverse foreign ex- itself the airs of a him conorietor, and cemplete the pi3O,SO t ha t a limitation in the issue of paper was regain - el, and by enacting the "needless that in such circumstances the operation of the act was bene• the lc es parliament called the attention of the conntry l 7. aced, lie asked the house if it was prepared to depart from what th, y . would do next sesteae toe bitter. :loo s e • se the law regulating the currency of the c 'entry, and what ing his uujectien as to lime, he a null be very um item which cold be sort t o h f e c r re i ;; h it t t h h o e n y . mweenireb.prre(pmarredlltoenit support. on ~.hl tn e t s w ys o t u e l m d t il i ee n ur ; t a le g e d e w ha h re , of th e wi t eh im in e e tthoestditreuel,issei.uns should arrive he wound have a parser currency B cause, if it was to would 'minuet' to the utmost of his power the . •i c e , -- d be the representative of seed, he considered it to keeing in force the eistrictive dances of the hill r ee ' le - be set exceedingly queetionable re gelation, e t hick ad- Hegel ieved that th' se clauses prevented the mourren S t mined of paper being obtained when gold could not be April last, supenddeel to commercial pressure, o f tk., . 4 Ct .. bad If paper was to he the tepees , ntative of and suestitute if political panic. Ile believed that the Rink sun ne d Pr e Pert, and ts show Mr gold, he eddied to know what relatio i it was premed pence , red from April to June as they did nom January s— ' shout I exist between the two ? eVith regard to the removal Aped, , n extendi ot the amount of securities, son e e 's,;_ impeach the of the restrictive clauses of 1814, he considered that it lienel that it wu only the salutary pressure impes.. Ib, H o would be better to follow the rent:emendation of the act which prevented it. When the time for discu-sen oe * Te the the committee provisions oi of to CoL i m a o io ns, f the act serving to the government, in the ev. nt of an extraortli' made would be to give the Bark of Earthed tbs nary case arising, a discrezionery flower to act as they power of repealing the restrictive dense.; sad that as . 11:01lICiohedallrocw. that arri" the he w n a l s os P t re thought proper. 11, believed he reponse I the views of the was impossible to forme° what eircumstenees nie c es eze ll e government in the opinion which he gave, and whenever the which might necessitate ouch a measure, it win messed! ri,ht lion. gentleman (Mr. Menem) propos , el to bring ton safer for the country and lotto, for the rn inetery noose e im ar po rsd li t ti o c weed his motion he wetted certainly advocate to the best et to reserve that discretion:try power in the handsofth, ee ess e' les power those views which he had fermi rly professed, and aunt to exerc:so it aec.ordieg to the eICLIMS'I4 es, aseee which had not undergone any change from the inves:igati in meet the peen ure amoral.; zto its nature and chsracte r which had taken place. than to allow to devolve en the Bank the pewee et . le. e i e , Mr. SPOONER said he approached this subje et with the restrictions only under given cireunietances. telt ---' gnat embarrassment. He entertained no • loubt as to the the effect of the nets of 1811 and 184.5? They centemplat e e opinione tie had held for mney yearn ; but he was conscious many things. They preeennel the ',mine . of in 're pe ee , those opinions were not in union with those of the majority by the bauks of &outland and Inlain, arid tte i n'O„' o. the home. Ile thought the right hon. member for Siam- by {Cs of England, beyond a permitted ameunt, to ':', d i , , ford had laid very strong ground ter fain motion ; the team issue t ink place in gold; and when messiest eaeol e e i at large felt the question to lie one of vital importance, and they permitted the issue of 33 millions of paper ninny one on which the integroy of the empire depended. Every by those banks without the off 3 3 ol a angle paper, ,,s e witness before the osomittee had stated that the hill of Ilan . gentlemen 'smelled an this feature of the ast; lot ' he 1841 had aggro the distress ; this, of itself, was sufficient said that the convertibility of the paper i""°' a was insured ground for considering the question. The right hoe. gentle • by its limitation . Remold not say too much o' the inmorte man op Paid eat had no ids aof altering the law of 1844; ante which attached to the principle of c •ntionee convert. I out that its suneeesiou might occasionally be necessary, end ibility, that the note elicielel Pan on the principle that the government of the day ought to have the power to of a metallic standard. All the evidence of co o , make such euepernion. Oa the other hand, he thought no trees with which this country coma in ontet peewit the such discretienary , power ought to be entrusted to any advantage of the system, by show ine that the tenor non 1 rnitintry, on account of the uncerteintY which it would eountnes bad approached to a complete me dee turret: introduce into commercial affairs. lied the act of 1144 the less had been their commie. id. eissreeliO An: looking -- been proposed u one that was to be subjected to periodical to the the circumstances of the country he c , nedsteal euepeusions, the hotne would never have consented to it. chit the greatest calamity which could fall upon i: welled be On the contrary, the right hon. baronet who introduced it to entertain the notion that in the time of nreseiee 'ee true bad said it WOUlli put an end to all panics er a revulsion,. method, of mitigating the roil was by re 1-x ition of t e e The right hon the Chancellor of the Exchequer hire said that resolution. in quesima. Ile assured them that po emu,* .he act ought not to be interfered with mhos on the recur- its o. n remely, aed th , t seett a tease would only s e gment rence et a panic as gnat as that of October lA. But did the evil, and Involve else sountre in real d .neer fow the I.e remember t :at the property of this country hie been re- discredit which would be hroug .t upon it. The senile re amed at that time 2.)0 millions below iu value in October commendation of the Lords' committee 11 , 411 that these Mali 1846 ; and would he swain nit quietly by and wit- be the power of relaxing the r. sni. Alone in the set, end teatthat nets another reduction of eel/ Miami* before hp came power sheuld bevested in tbe Beek of England. li powerless to the relief of the suffering icon rests, ? Allusion so Testi d, he said it would be emits , . all mine:cots. its had toen made to the evidence of Mr. Gurney, who homes had only passed the bill in MI, after three yaws( it was said approved tho principle of the bill. But Mr. inquiry, because it wax impressed with the eouvirent did Gurney hat' stated diet not only the degree of inselvency, the tank had exsreiseit enseretienary powers, and had not but the number of failures, had been increased by the wisely mereised them. The right hon. erental the pressure proeucel iiy the act of 1811. Ile added that, had receet example `the officer who had Marge of Mr. S.O'Brien, tee act been fully carried out, it was impossible to predict who presorted pistol at the head '1 the eneinter, and the ultimate comequences. It might have led to the • to; pue cempel:ed hint to proceed to Dublin in &fiance of orden. of the Batik, zed must have produced • great national Ile considered this an Jenne" of the deceeneeary power calamity. Ta l l he some eft. et was the evidence of Mr. H. which must lie exercised upon all matter", acceding to the Palmer, aro! al the other witnesten, except the four gen- necessity of the case, and which he consi heed wouid apply carmen who supported the act of 1841, amongst whom was to any relaxation which might ee neceserre in the 101 l in Mr. S. J. Loyd, the author of the bill, who i f course would question. At the same time that he urged that the power not readily give up his own crotchet. That gentleman should remain in the hands of the government be red not however, was not so confident in his opiaion of the act of doubt that the Bank directors were worthy of eintidence, te l l es he had tormerly been. Ile adrnitte 1 that a relexa- and that Mr. Cotton and Mr. Norman, who hal given tion rreght take place in the last extremity, when there was their evidence, might he trusted with the utmost credit. a liability of the exchanges being deranged. Ile therefore Tney distinctly declared th it they advised that the act sheald tho not abi.io any longer by tee principle of the not be relaxed—that the p over of relaxation should be left bill, which was that • fine tend unaletrable quantity a with the Bank. Mr. Hensley Palmer Wen- dissented from notes should be issued. lie (Mr. Speoner) objected that the that. 'That gentleman was of opinion that there should bet currency of the country should be placed at the mercy of relaxing power ; but that to give it to the Bask would be a alterations dependent on the recurrence of panics and ten vielation of the law, and that it would be absurd to relax tress, which ruined thousatids of individuate end centinund with one hand and to rennet with the other. 'nay said to operate for a long period. It would be impossible to sup that they were a maim, rei .1 betty, and that they were sub. press disturbance while the disaffected and seditious saw J. to Preesure, and they theref re wished to hsee the amen large mass s of she labouring p.•puletion deprived of the rity of the law to enable them vs resist that preemie. Bat means of obtaining food, on whose anietance they might he (Ser R. Peel) hoped that they would continue Bat means ulate. Far be it from him to furnish • justification ter strict one which these gentlemen seethed to enemy welothat ',tech cenduct, but, after the nelie conduct of the people of they would not confound the issue of imper money with the this country in abstaining from rebellion, some consideration capital of the country ; that they would nut Wen , it tabs ought to be bestowed on the count of their distress; in the power of the B ink of England to raise or diminish and a motion like this ought art to be met tee rate of interest to the extent the p wished; that they with the pre vioin question. (Hear, hear.) The wauld recollect teat *ale was eireied on with capital sae risht hon. member for Stamford (Mr. H , e ries : had not with paper money. other than as paper money me tbe given a narrative ot the history of ties currency question representative of gold; that the carrying on of trade by sone 1815, but he (Mr. Spooner) would g s back to the year meato of credit meant only that they trailed riot with other 1810-11. He had been an anxious auditor of the debates at People's credit but other people's capital; that the greatest that time, acid he wholly concurred in the sentiments aed advantage which this country o old have was fixity in the opinion's then addressed to the house on this subject by Mr. value of money, and security fir the convenibiety d Horner and Mr. Henry Thornton. The former, in 1810, paper ; that unless they had that fixity and that canverfi had stated that every year there had been a graeually in- 1 Whey a 1 clones would miner—all tho.e concerned in ems. creasing depreciation, and that the time had come when st meree and minufactures, but those chiefly would eater who ought to be arrested; but still this country had gone on up depenied fir every day's subsistence on the wage, of to the year 1819, when, without any iry as to the effect tweeue. (Hear, hear.) Depend upon it three if the ear it would produce on the credits and delve of the country, reecy were to be reduced in value, there wined, at first, thi TP had been a return to cash payments, a system which, be be wo corresponding re Suction in the value of the w in 1794, Mr. Pitt had found it necessary to abandon, and. titles to be purchased; but that the sIVO shil: ace or though in the interval the debt had increased nearly three. three shillings a day of tee labourer wooed become gradually filet. Since that time there had been oo real, regular of less value than before, au I teat no one clam tm meet the state of prosperity in the country; on the contrary there had whole of this trading community had a more fixed and par be n releated a;ternations of prosperity and distress. In manent interest in those arrangements which gave to their ' 1819 the bill tame 2 0 full operatien and effect, and t'il, paper as much as possible the character of a metallic can I result was that in 1820 distress commenced, which went on renay. (Hear.) When they next approached the mei& 1 increasing until 1822, when Lord Castlereagh came down to ration of this subject he hoped those principles weak be I the hews for an extension of the currency, in order to meet borne in mind, that they would not believe that pressure in , the distrese brought by the tea sudden application of the times of panic and distress was necessarily an evil—these stemware of 1819, though in that year Mr. Robinson, now the hear ) — that prenure, a salutary pressure, an early Heel ot Ripon, in his memorable speech had halloo d on. preniure—a compelled pressure—that presentee the to wards speculation , and declared that the " prosperity of the cessity of which, if not induced by ureic, was country was founded on • rock and was administered to a compelled by law, might be complained of by tone, grateful peopee through the motels of the cmtitution." hut it was the only remedy against increased disasters, sad Within nix months after that speech prosperity disap- the only guarantee for securing the convertibility cf their peered, and general depression and distress supplied its Parser money. (Cheers.) 'stead. (Hear, hear .) To the measure of 1819 wire these Mn. HUN rZ was not surprised that the riaht hon. harout tho , at.o one to be attributed, and so long se it remained in was determined to stick b y his law, but the promise which it , eff. et it would produce these consequences. He regretted much held out had been broken; but as the right hen. bar, net ked that the right hon. baronet the member for Ripon (Sir J. up to the last moment adhered to the corn law which ho Graham) was net in bis place ; but he, however, would afterwards repealed, so be hoped that he would act by the quote the right hon. baronet. In the committee room up last measure which he bad not overturned. (Ilea-. beate ' stairs he had asked the right hon. baronet what he thought The question in his opinion was, whether the people of of the evidence of Mr. Pease, on the subject of the state of this country ought to be bound by the improper I dieness which prevailed in the north. The right how. transactions which took piece in 1819 and bi fere it. baronet replied it AU very alarming and distressing. Upon The industry of the people of this country was sacetind to which he (Mr. Spooner) said, " Ah, Sir James Graham, its the monied interest, who were receiving much more the your fault ; you have brought it upon the country ;if you they ever gave. The opinion of Mr. Homer had beet re had been true to your principles you might have bees felled to ; but Mr. Horner shortly before his death wade prime minister end saved the country from the ruin this remarkable statement, " Whoever attempts to set die in which she was now involved." To this the currency of the country right without taken into NOW right hcneureble baronet had replied : es 1 have not the new circumstances which have arisen and the vast ed. altered my opinion of the bill of 1819. I always said that ditienal obligations which have been contracted since tai bill was a dead robbery on the debtor interests of the payments were sul)tended will inflict indevribthle niter, country, and I say so mill." But it was said the deed was on the people." (Hear, hear.) He admitted that the act done, and that a greater injustice would arise from any of 1814 was necessary if the act of 1819 was good end wise attempt to undo it. He denied that the deed was done, for But he maintained that the act et 1819 was a gross injusece, the bill ot 1519 had never been brought fu ll y into effect, and and it would continue such till they reduced pelt a to the it only served to bring about prosperity to-day and adversity level of 1819 the level of continental prices. (Hear, hen) ,to morrow. He warned the government speedily to Ica Ho hoped that they would stick by the act of Mt if they the matter full in the face and avoid a responsibility which could. The illy would come s however, when it meld blew threatened so overwhelm the m. It was said that the mea- up. The convertibility c f the right hon. baronet was sons sure of 1814 was designed to prevent rash speculations. idea, not a reality. If this paper was really convertible et When the Chancellor of the Exchequer spoke against mere present, why not change it into gold, and that would settle trading and speculation, he forgot that it had all arisen under the question at once. He was in fumy ot mover. the very act of 1844 which he was defending. He ales for- tihihity, as well as the right honourable bstocet, ' got that if the Bank of England during the crisis h a d been . but be differed with him es to the quantity. empowered to make use of the bullion then in their cutfers, The right hon. baronet said that the act of 1844 did it, eel net they could have greatly diminished, if not altogether arrested, aggravate the late distress. If it did not aggravate the panic which had been so injurious to the commercial in- relax that wet, and why (wart) the digress sh mitigated st the the Wrests of the country. moment it was relaxed That owed th I Sir R. PEEL was prepared to give his hon. friend credit act of 1844 had something to do with the dietrees. The fact I for nonsietency, but certainly did not expect to find him was, that there was plenty of money, but it was in 575 i avowing himself a disciple of Mr. Horner and his principles, bands—it was in the hands of those who had it hoarded in If his hon. friend meant to maintain the principle of Mr. order to snake profit upon it, but as soon as they knew that Homer, of having his paper converted into gold at the will the Bank had the power of issuing notes they left this money of the holder, he could tell him, that alth ugh the debtor free. (Hear, hear.) He thought it a disgrace to the go might be benefited by it, as a regulation of the currency it vernment to have interfered with the eel of 1814. If would not make the slightest difference. He might call a they had not done so the whole question would hoe pound twelve shillings, if he pleved, but still precisely the been settled in one week, and that woo what he wanted e a as tame state of things wauld arise when the value ot gold see done. The result now would be that a worse penie ne t wu calculated at 31. 1 7s. 10 d. the ounce. With regard to greater misery would occur again ; the people wattle suffer the witness Salt, whose evidence hie tight hon. friend passed more, but then they would not endure any second Wolin* over with such apparent slight, be mutt observe that when ing with the law. (Hear.) he (Sir R. Peel) asked him whether he was c srreet in be- Mr. HUME said he was utterly at a Ins to under• liming it to be his (the witness's) proposal that nationsl stand the right hon. baronet. The motion before the paper should be tutted without iimit and without reference house did not require them to go back to the act of 1819. to a metallic standard until that period should a r r ive when H is ri g ht hon. friend who introduced the motive made.' trims would give full remuneration to every person in clear and distinct statement, and said that the get ot 1844 commerce, and until every gbh-bodied man obtained full aggravated the late pressure. Most of the witnesses who employmint, the answer he received was " Certainly " wereoxamined gave evidence usinst the bill, but thecae' (a laugh)—and yet this witness canfessed that his views mitten gave a verdict against that evidence, He Our upon the subject were those of the Currency Reform believed that such would be the result, because he said that Association ot Birmingham. (Renewed laughter.) lie added its object was to whitewash tuose who had a hand in the that until that happy period arrived he would not fix a act of 1844. He believed that the report ef the Lore' standard. He must say that he did not see, though his hon. was an honest report thoesth there were some recomtneedo friend was endeavouring to get the witness out of the box as teens in it which were difficult to be understood. Tee nee I quickly as he could, that he differed materially from him. hon. baronet said this his measure was a self-acting memo. I He wondered whether his hon. friend thought the witness a but it was found that that was not the case. lie would dine!: not disciple of Mr. Horner. (Laughter.) With respect_ to the leave the commercial Whirs of this great country to ;U motion before them, his right hon. Mead (Mr. erries) in- tio nof any one individual. A tim e mi g ht come when Pe H vited them to enter into a pledge with regard to their pro- Chancellor of the Exchequer might be a fool. (Inarlatel ceedings in the next parliament • and, to be sure, though All the evidence was against the right hon. barnaclee e _Oe the promoters of dissatisfaction, and disloyalty, stuck to his bill against alt the facto. The members of th e throughout the country might be dissatisfied with premous present government and the late govern ment united tui9i questions, still he did not think they would find much to whitewash themselves, but were it not for the Winn consolation in the original motion. The motion in absence of two members of the committee the divon wet question ems one by which the house engaged have been equal—twelve on both sides. The anw , to alter the law, but were next session to take the matter would be able to d eterm i ne which were ret into their serious' consideration. (Mean bear.) What would when they uw that the evidence was all on one IL . , he gained by such a course ? He addressed himself to hhere never was more uncalled for legislation. All Sntesee who differed from his views, and he asked them to conside was against it, and yet the act of 1845 was t b rus t down thee that they (the house) did not stand very high at that goo- throat at the end of a session. No man wbo had heard tae . went it respect to theirpractical adoption a great reforms. evidence of the Scotch bankers but must be convinced. of vr (Hear, hear.) In short, they had shown rather a taste for mischief that act hail done to Scotland. Me ite :fro' discussion than practical activity. (Hear, hear.) Subject the bills must be reconsidered by the present or ese fs had been propmeu in the earlier part of the section which parliament, and on that ground he concurr ed in the the overnment had fod it quite im porible to carry for of the right hon. gentleman. a n ot W that g reason, because there was a decaire to have them tho- Mr. HERRIES said that he rose t o shorten an roughly examined. They had now arrived at the 22ndof not e a .ught ogo olie prolong the element debate. He had n . . 0e os Auguet without havinss presentuch progrese in legislation, the merits of the question, but only to pledge the no , etel 0 "" and not having leafleted p engagements they drew a consider it next eession, and teat object was die e ,_ ta bill six months betore date in order to be ready for next believed by the discussion which had taken place te e e de , eession—(" hear," and laughter ) — and under what Mecum- shown the house, and he hoped also he had ehe e __so. stances? His right hon. friend had said that the country country that the report of the committee was not in ced e in a state of anxiety on the subject. Oa thatunity -, t had thsught under- with the evidence. The governmen .r t standing he (Sir R. Peel) came up to town last Tuesday and to meet his motion by moving the previous fl u he le s found that there were only 33 members present when his although hem ight fat. on the present occasion le w still he! e tbs. subjec stilhes . The 'n°t Mr. " bill until TAXI' sir W. woad tin )0. GO sir, NA , exi bTr not Wag DUBL I decided t ! ciect. 11 w give Ow CHBI.I coloarabl 4 it ae *en the legito el to tile Hoßs repUed L. ELI 1%. OTC WS* A reigK ° ' l TM . 6 Val b .. 66 The lee win be ml _ . 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