The Express. — London, England, 1851-03-25 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LOW).—MONDAT. )Ibsen 24. Ire Lute C5AV1C74.11.0% tea his lost at the usual hoer. PETITION:V . P APA L Aonnusatou.—By Lord STANLEY, from Doh- Vs. Derby, and plares in Somenetahire arid Lancashire; Pearl 11 %WILLIAM. Pears seversl places in Yorkshire Lard LLIPUISIIL:ItIi, from digerati Wesleyan and other oengregation*; the Marquis of BRF.AIIAI.BANE, from orv..ial Wesleyan congregations in Coruwall, and from Ta ttoo. nth , r parts of the himoloin ; aryl the Earl of WIN CHILSI.I.t, from • great variety of places, against papal affrewarin. The NWPita rotar. stated that some of the petitions prayed that si.ilows might he appointed periodically to in spect nunneries, with the view of ascertaining whether per wise were emoined in th.-,a against their sill. With refe rence to the ruse whirl. seaw now engaging the attention of the politic, he was glad that it was in the handl of the Bottle mid learned hood on the woolsack, who would no doubt mot. et the unfortunate , young lady, now in a nun nery near Taunton, but who W 4. al°, fortunately, a ward in Chancery. Ile be:Hived it to be one of the nom fearful ' conspiracies which had ever In en catered into. Lord bol/red to remind the noble earl that the rave was still pending, and it would be improper to discuss it at present. (Hear, hear.) COUNTY COI;KTS (itieTillot EXTENSION) BILL. On the motion of Lord Boort:Guava, this hill went through committee, proforowi, iu order that some additional clauses nai„ilit Ix add, .1. COMMONS INCLOSUKE BILL. On the motion of the Earl of Comdata, this bill wad through ommnsitte e, and was reported to the house. SALE Or AItSENIC ItEGULATION BILL. The Earl of CA lILISLE, in moving the third reading of this lo several alt. raj he had made in the doted. ll i,f d ol m en . n oire. The bill was then read • third time, and the additional clause, were add , al. FOItEION FLOhIt, &c. The Earl of T/ESAIIT, pursuant to wilier, moved " for an areo.i.it for the years IKE) and 1510, and hr-t quarter of 1551, respectively, of the number of quarters of wheat,' barley, sod oats, and of the number of sacks and barrels of flour fey, etiv. ly imported into England, Ireland, and ficeithinf, ",rerally Goon the United States of America, from insole, from France, and from all the other parts of Europe, distinguohing the quantity of those articles sent from owl, country repo:direly ; also stating the nuoili, r of quarter. of wheat to which tic entire number of a./ k. awl ,erred. of flour from each country are an equi valent, stating the difference of cog in freight between Imported flour awl imported wheat from France. Canada, and the Coded Statioi, respectively." Several ge ntlemen, in hi+ mighliourliosal, who were free tnolers, had joined together t get petitions agsiied the importation of foreign floor, which had been very great. The mill p t ,, / ,,rty in that locality WWI almost completely de stroyed ; many ,calls were shut up, and other* were bung adapted to the preparation of flan, calculating upon the Aroma' of that material iu Ireland. When he had ohm tined the iolormation for which he had moved, lie shoot., have un opportunity at some other time of drawing att• nt to the Earl OItEY concurred with the noble earl that large guautities of foreign flour had been brought into the market, and it w.a, somewhat remarkable. plc believed, however, that the edict of that importation had been already to create a great improvement in the mode of pre dating dour in this country ; and it was quite visionary to supple. that our millers could he in any danger from com petition with the French miller, Ile 'cheeks' they had made improseinents in their mills, which had n o t hitherto been made in this country ; but competition in this, as in dither canes, was already producing its necessary ,fleet upon the Y.nglish miller. who were already intrislining the improved Fri neh prunes.. Ile had heard that a considerable establishment at Battersea had intro duced the improved "ruin of grinding. (Har, hear.) Ile (Earl fire)) had no doubt that the English miller would soon distanee the French miller in the competition which was now going on between them; and that the l'lfeCt Of that competition would he a great improvement in the milling trade of Ch.+ couotry. (Hear, hear.) Lord STAN LEN said that nothing could be clearer than the wild.. earl's deduction', if his facts were quite cor rect ; hut the. he itouhted. Predictions or • similar cha racter had le a n made with reference to the price of corn, which hail, notwithstanding, fallen to 37.. The noble esrl's innervation* would not apply to mills worked by water poorer. In this respect the French miller would have an advautaire ; aid there could bo no doubt that French flour par., le Mg imported in large quantities at prices which defied romp %item. Art , r a few worts from Earl Grey, Earl Fitzwillinm, and the Earl of Malmesbury, The mistiest was agreed to. Their lordships adjourned at a quarter before big o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MOND.%Y, MARCH 24. The .' . took the chair at a quarter to 4 o'clock. NEW MEMIWIL. Sir Wu. Oti.t.wev took the oaths and his seat for Thirds. The hon. member was introduced by Mr. Stafford nail Mr. M. Herbert. 10 BUR MONOPOLY. A large number of petitions having been presented, Mr. iluMp, gave notice that to-morrow he should more Oar a return of the another of bibles printed since 14414, in continuation of the returns already before the house. DIFFERENTIAL DUTIES. Mr. G. BANK ES gave notice that on Thursday he would move for copies of the romspondenee between the g overnment* of this country and Spain respecting the dif krential duties. PROSECUTIONS BILL. In answer to Mr. Deena*, Sir G. OBEY said that clauses had been inserted in the bill in accordance with what was understood to be the ge aeral sense of the committee. But as it was thought advi sable that those clauses should he in the hands of members several slays Sefore the nest stags of the bill came on, ho proposed to postpone the hill till Wednesday week. COLLIERY EXPLOSIONS. Mr. CAYLEY, referring to the recent accident in the Victoria coal pit, near Glasgow, tubed if any report had reached the Hosnesdlice on the subject. He begged also to ask whether tho inspectors of mines had instructions fur cerrying out a proper system of ventilation ? Sir U. GREY hail had no report regarding the melan choly accident to which the hon. member Referred, except. lag a statement from the inspector, that such an accident bad occurred. The inspector was till on the spot in dis charge of his duty. 'she inspectors of mines bad no power nailer the art to enforce any mode of ventilation, but were only required to inspect and recommend. THE EXHIBITION BUILDING. Mr. KER SEIMER inquired of the noble lord at the bead of the department of the Woods and Forests whether any of the trees which disfigured and encumbered the Exhibition building in Hyde Park were to be removed Lord SEYMOUR said he had received a great many ap pheationa from the commissioners of the Exhibition wish lag to remove certain trees, and also from exhibitors, who mated that their spare was very much confined by these trees. Ile had inquired into the matter, and had answered thew applications by stating that he was of opinion some of the trees should he removed, and that he purposed commu nicating with the Treasure on the subject. (Hear, hear.) TILE EASTER RECESS. Lord It. GROSVENOR begged to ask the first minister of the crown whether, in deference to the wishes of many members of the house, and those whose leisure depends span its sittings, and in consideration of the small amount of business it btu heen found practicable to transact in the week immediately preceding Easter Sund a commonly called notion Week, he would move the 'our:intent of the house for the reeve on Friday, the 11th o April next ? Lard .1. RUSSELL—The answer I shall make to this question is, that in the present state of public business I do not think that I could propose that the house should ad journ for the Easter recess on Friday, the 11th of April, as my noble friend would propose. As, however, we cannot get much business forwarded on the Thursday before Good Friday. I should prefer that the house adjourn either on the Tuivelay or Wednesday. It was resolved last year that after the 11th of April the house should, on alternate Thursdays, take orders, and I have, therefore, togive notice that Monday ise'nnight I shall move that a similar course be pursued this session. MERCANTILE MARINE BILL. Mr. HUME had presented that night several petitions in reference to the Mercantile Marine Bill, and he begged to ask whether permission would be given to the petitioners to state their objections to the bill at the bar of the house ? If a time were fixed for this purpose it might be the me 3111 eheeking the agitation on the subject. Mr. LABOCCHERE said the only answer he could give to the question was this—while all subsequent experience had convinced him of the necessity of adhering to the main provisions of the Mercantile Marine Bill, yet he admitted that there were details of the measure which might be sub ject to inipmeement ; and, after the lapse of a reasonable period, he would introduce a bill for the remedy of these defects. In the present eta=faiublie businew, however, he could not state when he be able to introduce the measure, but it was Ids astiee to istralese it atomic period esf the session. CASE OF MISS TALBOT. Mr. REYNOLDS mid them was a matter of a nature personal to himself, on which he desired to say a few words, and he trusted the house would grant him its indulgence. He begged to remind the house that on two occasion* he had stated to the house that Miss Talbot was not a postu lant. (Hoar. bear.) On two occasions be had been con tradicted—once contradicted by the hon, baronet the mem ber for Oxford (Sir R. Inglis), and once, in a manner not very courteous, by the hon. baronet the member for Mary. lebone (Sir B. Hall). He (Mr. Reynolds) might refer to the proc e edings which had taken place in the Court of Chancery last Saturday in confirmation of the truth of the statement he (Mr. Reynolds) had made. He begged to state, with refer ence to Mr. Berkeley. and for the satisfaction of Mr. Berkeley and his friends, that he (Mr. Reynolds) never intended to con vey the idea that Mr. Berkeley would be_gailty of intention ally violating the truth, and he (Mr. Reynolds) was now free to admit that he (Mr. Berkeley) was warranted in what he had written and what he had stated, because he (Yr. Berkeley) bad received from Miss Jerningham an assurance that Miss Talbot was a postulant ; and although such 641 not been the fact —(amelttee)—honourable gen tlemen should make this distinction, that a man might state something to be a fact which he believed, and it might not turn out to be a het en further inquiry. (Co* tinned laughter.) He concluded en les had commenced, by inviting any hot. gentleman to come forward on his credit and his character, sad awn that Miss Talbot ever was a postulant. (War, hear.) Sr B. HLLL our very triad that this matter could be so *risibly &mod at, Ile Mita:ma be (Sir B. Hall) had THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 2 1851. mode was oa the authority of one of his (M 4 Reynolds .)'' Mristian unattached." (Cheers and laughter.) In con- I own bishops, wha haT been a party himself .10 the trans. , elusion, Ise begged to say that he er,,posed the measure, be-' actions. (Bear, hear.) lie (Sir B. 11611) had ercditel this ; cense it wai &retrograde movement in legislation; because bishop, but now he serried for hip. (Laughter, and hear, iit was an infrrtnent of an act of the legislature; because hear.) I it was as injtament, as the noble lewd himself admitted, of Iit'C L ESLtSTICAL TITLES A SSUMITION BILL. !severer measures; and, above all, b,eanse it was an infringe- ! The order of the day for resuming the adjourned debate : ment of the great principles of civil sail religious liberty. on the second rea ding of this bill having been re ad, (Loud cheers.) Mr. W. FAG.aN complained of the terms whi ch had 1 Mach amusement was created by the simultaneous rising 1 ; been uasd by Mr. Drummond on Thursday with reference of nearly all the members on the protectionist benches, but to n unteries and esplain , d the circumitanc , ; under which ' they all gave way to Miss Talbot became an inmate of the Lidge, at Taunton. She , Mr. G. A. SI TIME, who wished to state his reasons hadbc.mreeived in thceonvent at Tauntin furthe porpow of ' for renewing his vote against this sham bill of sham pains ! making it a temporary residenc e durin g tie abet:ilea of Lord and penalties against a sham aggression. ( Cheers and ' Shrewsbury from this country. There were but two modes ; laughter.) Ile joined in expressing his surprise and India- in which any lady could be received as a temporary resident nation at the measure with the hon. gentleman the member in a convent—the one by becoming a boarder for thei/L put , ' fRo maor Co n cath olrk. What was the reland ? nature was iof their to relations with shrink the ' poses of education, and the other by becoming ape nint, ic, of llt dle hor with a view of joining the community. Miss Talbot having , from, or evade this question. (Rear, hear.) It could not been previously educated in Taunton could not he received as ; be denied that fur these last 10 years the state, grown a border, without undergoing all the restraints to which I weary with a sterile, and certainly an expensive contest, young ladies were subject Is henneeiving their ducation. The , had contracted a left-handed, 'Morganatic alliance, through other 'node, as he had :dated, was that of becoming a pos. 1 the Charitable Bequests Act and the Mavnooth Bill, with talent, and Miss Talbot had asked her uncle—being about the Roman catholic church in Ireland—(loud laughter, to leave the country—to be received, in the only and cheers)—and now they sought to repudiate at once the way she could be received, namely, as • postu- bride, and the not impolitic bigamy. (Renewed laughter.) Gat. That excellent community, seeing the posi- . Far different was the spirit of the Secretary of State fur the ti in Miss Talbot held in society, and seeing the enor- ; Colonies. In the spirit of a wise, far - seeing , and courageous moos fortune in her power, though anxious to receive her, ' statesman—s,verlooking the miserable scruples of a pedantic had hesitated to receive her as • postulant though they i uniformity, he had not hesitated to eonectle those titles were anxious to give her a temporary residence. What I which 'Mr. Pitt would have accorded. (Cheers.) Following hail been done ? She was received without the form, hut I the ptceedents of Santa Crux, Trinidad, and Demerara, still as a postulant, an-1 therefore the bishop to whom the ,he saw n o g ood reason why the Ronan catholic; of Malta hon. gentleman (Sir IL Hall) had alluded, with the infor- ! should not have a Ronan catholic government ; and he motion before him, was perfectly justified in the statement . had given Roman catholic bishops to the Roman catholics he made, that she WAS IrkeeiVed as a postulant. And Miss of Australia. (Hear.) If that was right, he asked why Talbot was equally justified in stating that she was not. catholic laws and catholic bishops should not be allowed to the (Laughter.) In point of fact, she went fora temporary re- ; catholies in Ireland ?—(cheers)—and it' in Ireland, why not ... . . l)r. Doyl catholies in land ? (Cheers.) Rad the l'..- -- - a . . - Odenie, and the'fact, an it aim stood, was that -.. Oryle to the • as Engl: _ ...e Pope really was at that moment endeavouring to find a suitable TOW. given territorial titles to the bishops named in his bull ? dense elsewhere for that lady. This explanation made the The title of Archbishop of Westminster involved no more statement of the bishop quite reconeileable with the truth. of territorial right than the title of King of Cyprus and With regard to the subject in thathouse, he believed, with the Jerusalem, as borne by the King of Sardinia; or than the hon. member for Oldham (Mr. Fox), that this matter had not title of King of Jerusalem borne concurrently with him, arisen from any supposed aggression on the prerogative of without any quarrel, by the King of the Two sicilies ; nei the crown, but (nun • thorough hatred of the catholic Sc- therof whom appeared to offend the Grand Turk, who was, de Intim. Ile admitted the fact that there was an undies facto, the emperor of those countries. The title involved no Raised hatred of Popery, and a resolute determination to more than that of King of France, which was worn by three prevent its spread amongst • large portion of the population Electors of Hanover in succession, and who were also the of this country, and he could not help thinking that hon. constitutional kings of England. (Hear, hear.) It in gentlemen. member' of that house, participated in that volved no more than the title of King of England when it feeling. The leading objection which had been urced by was borne by James 111., Charles 111., and Henry IX. hon. members wan, their natural and rightful overdue to (Hear, hear.) It was true that they were proscribed foe the the introduction of the canon law into this country, which legislature, and they acted against the government of the could net be introduced without this new eccl esiastical da y ; hut ey still maintained the . style of Del yratia, 1100 sysitem The reason for this objection to the canon law was, voluntate Aommum, kings of England ; and there were that it * not only gave the Pope, but the subordinate some amongst us who admitted their right. (Hear, hear.) clergy, temporal power. The hon. and learned member The legislature might proscribe the Archbishop of West for Oxford (Mr. Page Wood), had said that in the canon minter, but he would remain still Del st rat irt, 1100 rolloltate law the temporal and spiritual functions of the clergy Aonsinam, primateof England; and some intense ofbin Roman were so mixed up, that it WAS impossible to disunite them, Catholic subjects would admit his claim. (Cheers.) The and the hon. member (Mr. Walpole) had said that he distinction was one which eluded and defied legislation, be grudged the catholic clergy the temporal power which the cause it was in fora conseientire, between man and his God. canon law conferrer'. Ile (Mr. Fagan) must say that this (Loud cheers.) It was like the old Jacobite rhyme was too bad, after the oath which Roman catholic gentle. ire 4 Vera the Ring-Gad blew the faith's defender, men hail taken at the table, that neither the Pope nor any tied bias—there fano harm in Alns the Pretenda; hot who is that Pretender, wee that King, other foreign prince or potentate had any temporal power God New us all—th d's quite asothet thing, in this country. The reason for introducing the ecelesi antical system into this country was that the Roman catholic (Loud cheers and laughter.) The hon. member for Oxford (Mr. Page Wood) had striven to prove that the Pope had population was increasing in thiscountry ; it amounted now to nearly a million. 'There were more Roman catholice now Intended an aggression upon this countryas Ea-vital:p in London than in Rome Rolf, and a sufficient number of fical rule and spiritual faculties were synonymous, he (Mr. w e nt clrgy could not be obtained unless they had right, and Smythe) had a right to assume that spiritual faculties only I Em mett protected from the whim of any man, no were what was intended. (Hear, hear) Now, the ma what rnight he his station. Under the vicars peror Julian, in what painters would call " his third man apostolic the clergy had no protection ; under the hierarchy ner," might jest as well have _Sawa a decree . upon oriel they had they could not he removed without cause, nalism, or the Emperor of Russia an ukase against belief in and the consequence was a sufficient supply of clergymen magnetic power, as for the house tolattempt to legislate about, would be found. Ile believed this was the chief reason spiritual facultice. (Cheers.) With respect to the hill itself he that hail induced the Roman catholice of this country, and thought the noble lord, in his powerful speech in , introdue- particularly the clergy , to petition for this change, and ing the measure, had aptly described it as a " I hinder on which had induced the Pope to concede it. He agreed, the sudden ; " and he would have done well to have ! however, with the clergy of the district of Beverley, who treated it as such, for the statesman who, in the nine:- Ind presented a petition to Cardinal Wiseman on the sub- teeth century, could dream of laying the foundation of a 1 Jed, that, if matters remained as they are, they would spiritual unity, could owl ybe the name statesman who, in be almost in a worse position than they were be the same nineteenth century, could arena of laying the fore, because, so far so matters had now proceeded, fo u ndation of the spiritual unity of Italy. (Cheers.) the serondary clergy had now no rights--no protcc - a None but himself weld be his ganidel. tion. Cardinal Wiseman, as Archbishop of Westminster, (Loud laughter and cheers.) If the Pope's measure were a and the other bishops, were now freed in a great measure " blunderonthesuilden," the machinery by which he sought from the power of the Pope; but at the same time the t o c arr y it out was no less a blunder. Let him (Mr. Smythe) secondary clergy were under their influence, and under their assume, for the purpose of argument, that the Pope (which thumb, without any appeal whatever; and, therefore, he God forbid!) was really in earnest, and had a booth fide agreed with the clergy of Beverley that, if the matter re- hostile intention towards England. Well, then he had at mained as at present, they would be in a worse condition his command a force far more to he dreaded than the even thanthey were in before. But he believed there did not cardinal and his half dozen suffragans; a force far more live a man w o was more anxious than Cardinal Wiseman formidable than the Emperor of Russia with all his armies woe to give to the clergy their fair rights., but in and all his hordes. lie meant the monastic orders—par enosequence of this excitement and agitation he titularly that one which fur the last century had beenof the bad not been able to call together the clergy in synod for most practical use to Rome, and which had been called the establishment of rules and regulations, and the giving " The catholic church in committee." (Hear, hear.) Ile them canonical institutions. But he thought he might say meant that one order on which abuse had been of late so Me time was not far distant when • canon law, suitable unsparingly lavished—but which as it hail survived the pro to this country and its law* and institutions, would he esta- vincial letters, so he thought the provincial speeches of the blithe& A great deal had been said about the canon law, winter of 1850 would hardly put down. (Laughter.) He ' but he would observe respecting it that, except so fir as it meant the order of Jesus, of which the wisest of our related to the doctrine of the faith, no Roman catholic priest philosophers, Lord Bacon, was not ashamed to say, " Being er layman was bound to receive any canon that was in what' they are, would that they were ours." (Cheers.) contravention of the municipal law of the country. In Absu - rd and suicidal, as he should not hesitate to say that point of fact, the canon law was subsidiary to the municipal the Pope's policy 'had been, in one particular it merited law, and was used precisely aa the civil law of the Roman+ their attention atonee as an example and a warning to them used to be. After all they hod heard about the pretensions selves. The Popes for the first time in the history of Rome, of popes of former times, they had nothing to do with ca- had placed his church by the side of an establishment, end bulks of the present day. lie believed, in reference to the had connected the grandeur of a hierarchy with the volun teers of Sardinia, there wee • great deal that did nut appear tary principle. (Loud cheers.) Day by day, bit by hit, had on the surface, and he would venture to say that the Rome been withdrawing from state encroachment and from Roman catholic clergyman, whoever he was, was justified Erastian domination, until she had been enabled to present M his refusal. The Solicitor-General said if they made to the world the spectacle of a pauper hierarchy side by any new bishops in England they would be on the same side with a large-salaried episcopacy ; that pauper hierarchy besting as those in Irebusd,and if they made any new bishops recognised and paid by the sympathy of universal Chris- In Ireland they would he on the same footing as the old tianity—(cheers)—that large-salaried church utterly un biehopa. Now as lie (Mr. Fagan) understood the hill, the known, and receiving no sympathy beyond these shores. effect was not so. The Bequests Act overrode the provision (Hear, _hear.) 'f he head of this pauper hierarchy WWI a io the Emancipation Act respecting titles , and in cane - cardinal, a prince of the church, one who would take pre queue° Sir Edward Sugilen, and the other equity judges in cedence before our own prince consort in every court of Ireland, had recognised territorial take, and had acted continental Europe, but he was sent with the wallet of a upon them. This bill would re-enact the prohibitory mendicant beneath the robes of the cardinal, and dependent claw in the Emancipation Act. Therefore, as the right upon the alms of those who chose to believe. (Hear, hear.) hon. gentleman said the other night, the government, if In this Rome hail gone far before the government of Eng they believed their Attorney-General's interpretation of the land. (Hear, hear.) She had cast the shadow of a cardinal law, had no course left but to withdraw the bill, unless truth far down into posterity, and it was one for which they added a proviso to the clause, that nothing con- those who came after would not be ungrateful. (Cheer.) Mined in the act should make void any act done She had at last effected this. She had read in England the b e r ts z k y . archbishop or bishop of the Roman catholic banns of a free union between liberty and faith—between in the United Kingdom of England and Ireland. modern liberty and ancient faith—which on his conscience bit oven that would not satisfy, and ought not to satisfy, he believed would yet regenerate the world. (Loud and des people of Ireland. They looked upon this measure, long continued cheering.) asa la its mildest form, as an insult on the religion of one- Mr. M. MILNES remarked that if he could bring him- OM of her Majesty's subjects. The noble lord was not self to argue the question on the abstract principles of the SWIM Of the ferment and excitement this measure had hon. member's (Mr. Smythe) elegant speech, he should be MOW in Ireland. His (Mr. I.gati's) constituents, he was compelled to take the same view of the ease. He could MM. were as mild as • summer's sea compared to the wild not deny the premises, and arguing from them, the imeiteatent in other districts; but they had passed a resolu- hon. gentleman's conclusions were irrefragable. He time calling on him to vote against the government, no matter could not, however, quite divest himself of all the what principle was involved, on every oceasiuss. Of course historical bearings of the case ; nor adopt the onehtentlp. with his own character he could not subscribe to theory he used to meet with in works of poll etey emelution of the kind—(hear, hear)—and therefore he tied economy all of which used to begin with—"sup bed only the alternative to retire. He only mentioned the pose a man on an island." (Laughter.) It was a great circumstance to show the excitement and indignation that historical feet that a struggle had taken place, which was elided in Ireland ; and surely the noble lord must know accompanied by confusion of the gravest possible character; Met the right hand of his political power was Ireland. The and that it was only after one monarch had lost his life and paspis of Ireland were now opposed to the noble lord he- another hie crown, until after an alien line of succession mast he was now against cavil and religious liberty. had been established on the throne, that the victory re- And why was it that the noble lord had adopted waned with protestant'. (Hear, hear.) The consequence this course of conduct? Could any man seriously was that there remained a stronghe would not call it believe that the noblo lord supposed there won any insult dread—but a strong suspicion of the Roman catholics and the intended upon the part of the Pope of Rome upon this Roman catholic faith—(hear, hear,)—which he believed was country or upon the crown of England. Why at the very founded on and warranted by historical association. (Hear.) moment of this change in the ecclesiastical system, he spoke Another clement in the matter was well worthy considers ea the year 1110, there was no man more popular in stoke Another clement in the matter was well worthy considcra atth.r 1111?, there was no man more popular in ng' tion. There had been long growing up in the people of boll than was the Pope. Dr. Ullathorne said it was pro- England, in a more decided form than the past had ever rad that a bishop of London should be ap- shown, a suepicion and dislike of hierarchical authority et iolated, but that proposition was rejected because together. No doubt this feeling, combined with the there was already a protestant bishop. He (Mr. feeling of the people towards Roman catholicism, had had a Fagan) was satisfied it was • mistranslation of the great deal to do with the late demonstrations. He did not brief that made • bishop of St. David's. lie believed think it possible to deny the spontaneous character of these it was never intended that there should be a bishop of St. demonstrations ; and much as he objected to the letter of the David's. But the noble lord the Foreign Secretary said if noble lord, on the ground that no minister ought to make his no insult was intended, why did not Cardinal Wiseman go private religious opinion' part of his public policy—(hear, to Downing-street and communicate to government the hear) —he did not believe that the letter had had any real intentions of the Pops in reference to this matter. The effect in exciting the people of this country. The subject noble lord forgot the Diplomatic Relations Bill. He (Mr. Reel( was of so exciting a character that, had not the go- Fagan) did not forget it : he voted against the bill vernment taken it up, the question, instead of being tossed in consequence of the second clause. How could as it was like a shuttlecock from one side of the house to the with any regard to their own dignity communicate the other, would have become a standard of violent and with government? Was not the Pope of Rome altogether factions opposition, and have been accompanied with greater ignored in this country? As a temporal sovereign he was danger and difficulty than was now experienced. Lk can ignored. The Pope did it indirectly to Lord ]pinto in the mind the object of the bill to be simply this, to assimilate only way he could do it. He (Mr. Fagan) thought the the Roman catholic bishoprics which had beenen established noble lord was mistaken in supposing that any one of the in this country by the Pope, in form and in legal condition, dignity of the Pope of Rome would send sneaking to ,to those at present established in Ireland. The clause of Downing-street to make this communication. Therefore he ! the act of 1829 had been sufficiently operative in hold it absurd that this bill should be_peoed to repel an in- " Ireland for all purposes which were intended when suit upon this country. It was equally absurd W 'appose that act was passed. That intention was simply to that it was necessary to repel an encroachment on the prero- ' prevent the open and ostentatious use of those gatires of the crown. As for the 'Queen's supremacy, it titles attached to public documents, and in certain was not fully admitted as held by the noble lord at the head public forms, whilst acting in antagonism to the claims of of the government and above two thousand of the clergy the Roman catholic bishops of that country. That clause with the Bishop of Exeter at their head. (Hear, hear.) In had perfectly answered the purpose. With the exception Scotland the royal supremacy was not held by any sect of of that very able, but not very moderate, prelatethe pb A u re hh. e - Christians whatever ; and therefore to say that it had been bishop of Tuam, no one had ever attempted, in any infringed by this act of the Pope was utterly absurd. (Hear, document, to attach the titles of the Roman catholic bishops hear.) No he would not believe that it was for the pur- in an illegal manner ; and in their late address presented of protecting the Durham letter that the noble to the crown they had taken the names prescribed by FL " had brought in the measure. He could law. The object of the bill on the table was simply to not think that the noble lord was capable adapt the same principle to the new hierarchy estab of any action of that description. (Hear, hear.) Neither lisped n in England. a .iThers h that Therefore itw t as he a amed questio to n i o t f: did he suppose that it was to gratify the prejudices of the form ; iid it ‘,. o 1 people of this country. If that, indeed, was the noble lord's In his rescript the Pope represented himself as reclaim. intention he had signally failed, for every one knew that ing and resuming his own ecclesiastical power in England; ' the measure would never satisfy the people of this country. he declared the acts passed even under catholic sovereign s (Cheers.) No. Ile could not help thinking that the whole to be all repealed, end he treated England just as tho ugh had proceeded from a kind of morbid prejudice that existed there had never been a reformation, a revolution, or a civil in the minds of the most enlightened men in this country— war. By that act he re-assumed his full power in England, the noble lord amongst the rest—agaiao the Roman ca- to the abnegation of our national protestantism and ure tholic church. (Hear, hear.) The Attorney-General had established hierarchy. Then the titles selected were or bade them (the Irish members) beware, for a conspiral the most ostentatious that could be conceived—Westenins . wa" on foot against the independence of the Iris ter, connected with all the greatest assosiatio I Catholic church, and for the purpose of placing the appoint want of its bishops in this country. The object of t tr h y e '' a wi nc t i h ent ro ch yli u„Ves m' e r f a t; l iee parim on e ..i n ;a r dtio nf . th t is edit un s6b. legislation, and existedßy what i in a g ency c lth the hon. and learned gentleman was, doubtless, to 1M times, as Ilexham and So on u n rwar w ie hl . ch induce them (the Irish members) to withdraw had the act been performed ? A relate their opposition, but it would not succeed. (Cheers.) ' this country, deficient in no virtue or talent which w h h e ie n h ie co nt u t ld o The Irish catholic' had refused with scorn and contempt the.) j give , it was n e sne viden n t that ono dignity or ;r pow ni e a r n to his ... m . llM P trerr and ott of di th e e n v it e y to s'ad their they ei r o Ir m at jah in t d b e e pe t a: ted nee. to ma Ch ul ee igi rs.: c m u m lt i ta ti s T su N i V , . e a, able, and good-intentioned, . 'an- might If such a necessity should arise they • ht depend I_ I forced, through obedience to the Roman catholic system, himself bu ta confusion o idi n ot an ical d di am in b c i u ti l o ti n, to whi h e i h s that the foremost amongst the defenders of the rish U cge ° :;ch . into totin g Do would be Archbishop Murray himself. (Cheers.) That eminent man had been called Isy the Solicitor General an cold bring u 'no n thing cona rev Many members of that house would recollect " Italian monk ;" but whatever Dr. Murray's country, he that for many years at Rome Dr. Wiseman received kind (Mr. Fagan) would infinitely prefer that title to the one nees and courtesy from English visitor, an d distinguished bestowed oa the Solicitor General last year, that of " a himself, not more for his urbanity ofmaaaerthaa gen to the lettor ;If the First Lord of the tleman, in refernng to tne Treasury, reiterated what bad been previously said in that house, namely, that it was not to it the agitation that dis located society was attributable. But he asserted that, emanating from the high quarter it did, and at such a time, and couched in such language, its effect should be to give to the religious excitement which prevailed a character of spurious dignity which it otherwise never would have attained. (Hear, hear.) The hun. gentleman (Mr. Milnes) next alluded to the 11th section of the Emanci pation Act ; but he should have remembered that that section was a piece of dead-letter legislation, inasmuch as every Roman catholic bishop in Ireland had frequently violated it by signing himself archbishop or bishop of the diocese over which he presided. (Hear, hear.) Vault had been also found with a rescript of the I'ope, which had been published. But how had it been published ? They had the assurance of Cardinal Wiseman that he knew nut how it reached the public press. But it was preposterounlyab surd to think that Pius IX., in issuing that rescript, dreamt for a moment of conferring territorial power on one of those bishops whom ho was then appointing. (Hear, hear.) The rescript would have the same effect whether penned in Ve nice or the Vatican, on the banks of the Thames or the shores of the Tiber. (Hear, hear.) But when he said that, he would also say there was not a Roman catholic in England or Ireland who would not be prepared to repel any real insult offered to her most gracious Majesty, no matter what quarter it came from. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member opposite (Mr. Milnes) asserted that the num ber of bishops iu Englund was disproportiuned to the num ber of catholies ; and that, consequently, a hierarchy was not needed. Now the real object of the restoration of the hierarchy in England was this—that the catholics in Eng land being weak and few, there was the greater necessity to protect them against the servility which the misconduct of , any future had pope mi;lit bring upon them. (lkar, hear.) , Roman catholics had read the history of the papacy as well as protestants, and were quite as well aware that there had been bail and infamous popes as well as men who were distinguished for genius, piety, and benevolence. (Hear.) Vicars apostolic were the mere creatures of the Pope ; and therefore an indepen dent and constitutional hierarchy was preferable. (Hear.) That was the object of the hierarchy being restored; and that was the reason why the catholics of England so fre anztly petitioned the Holy See in reference to the restore (Hear.) He (Mr. Sadleir) begged to call attention te a question put to the late Right Rev. Dr. Doyle on his examination, as well as to the answer cf that distinguished prelate. The question was: " Pray, if the Pope were to intermeddle with the rights and allegiance you owe to the King, what would be the consequence so far as the Roman catholic priests arc concerned in Ireland?" The answer of Dr. Doyle was : " The consequence should - - would bo that we oppose the Pope by every means in our power, even by the exer cise of our spiritual authority, by teaching the gospel to the people, and urging them to oppose the Pope if he interfered with the temporal rights of our king." (Hear, hear.) He was next asked: " Was there any dis tinction between a vicar apostolic and a bishop as to with holding a bull or rcseript from Rome ?" His answer was that " the difference was very material. A vicar depended as to the existence of his office upon the will of the see of Rome. Ile could be removed at the pleasure of the Pope, or the faculties he exercised could be restricted, or limited, or modified according to the Pope's pleasure, which was not so with a bishop, who could not he removed. The bishops held a title to their places; their rights were de fined by gospel and canon law ; and they could not be made to do anything by the mere will or pleasure of the Pope." (Hese.) That was the security held by bishops against papal encroachments, which security he (Mr. Sadleir) hoped they would never surrender. Was the hon. and learned gentleman (the Solicitor-General) justified in desig nating the individual selected to fill the primatial chair in Ireland an "Italian monk ?" Why the person so designated had alarger and more influential circle of friends than ;any other member of the Roman catholic hierarchy in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) He was educated in Kildare and Carlow, in Ireland, and from the latter place he proceeded to the continent to complete his theological studies. In Rome he was made president of the Irish College, and whilst there he was the accredited agent between the see of Rome and the Roman catholic hierarchy of Ireland. How improbable was it, therefore, that if Dr. Cullen was merely an " Italian monk," and if he hail not the confi dence of the Irish hierarchy, that he would have been the medium of communication between them and the sec of Rome. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord referred to the synod of Thurles, and the conduct of that synod in refer ence to the colleges. No man was more anxious than ho Mr. Sadleir) to see these colleges fl ourish and expand— ( C hear, hear)—and it was to be jecollected that the disap proval of them was a qualitleslonT. They were disapproved of as at present constituted. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord would lead the house to infer that the synod of Thurles had been assembled only for the purpose of considering the question of these colleges. But it had met fur a very different purpose. The syllabus of their meeting contained 29 or 30 heads, which were Pubdi vide& into a still greater number. As stated in the Pastoral of the Archbishop of Cashel, " They were met to uphold the true faith, and to promote uniformity of discipline." No question of a temporal nature entered into the conside ration of the synod. It was true that the question of edu cation was considered, but that question was of a mixed character, and it was the duty of the synod to consider it in its spiritual bearings. (Cheers.) The noble lord also spoke of the reference made by the synod to the unparal leled sufferings of the poor, IS calculated to promote hatred and disuniud. But in his (Mr. Sadleir's) opinion, if the synod had dispersed without making allusion to the dreadful cruelty and sufferings of the poor of Christ, it would have disgraced itself in the eves of the country. The present bill was stated by Mr. O'flagan to be wholly inconsistent with the usages of the Roman catholic church in Ireland. His opinion was confirmed by the opinions of Mr. Scully and Mr. Close. Though of comparatively little consequence to England, this bill was therefore of vast im portance to Ireland, and he wanted to know what defence the right hon. and learned member for Windsor (Mr. Hat- chell), the Attorney-General for Ireland, could offer in its behalf. He could not comprehend how the right hon. and learned gentleman could vote for the recitals of the bill, ' when he recollected, as he must recollect, the decisions of the courts of law in Ireland on the subject. (Hear, hear.) The measure, whilst it was inadequate to allay the ground- for his liberality of opinion. He was at one less alarms of the people of England, would excite the pas- 1 The noble lord had, by bringing in this hill, committed time almost the nu'.y prelate who received with ur- minim of the people of Ireland. Ile should resist the ; political suicide. The Irish Ineath .1., rc-istcul the bill with banity and courtesy these who were supposed to measure, ll:cause he did not wish that there should be : indignation, and they had a right to do so, Our what had differ most widely front the Roman court in political mat-' Placed in their parliamentary annals another shameful in e- ; Ireland done that she should be Mewled in such a nea ten,nlott w be as iic, i .. d , t t iLt t til t.. e n. law in was , to —anumgst them. M. Montalembert, then proscribed by ntoriul of the legislation by which, to use the words of a ' sure ? (Hear, hear.) The preamble of the 143 contained a the Roman see, now the advocate for the most ahnaute modern historian, " Ireland haul been cursed—at first by . falsehood, for it accused the Irish bishops of ulsiag what popery in France. The bill was not without foundation . ; the dominion of race over race, and then of religion over 1 t b li e e it was supported by the fact : of the ca.-, and by the public , religion." (Hear, hear.) X in h o l pe d ra ne trv e r r . atte ll n e Wt dld i. , e v e ry ' opinion of that house ; and he could not but think that , Mr. IL BERKELEY said he was anxious to state why ; speech the noble lord had clearly indicated that it was only them must have been, in the introduction of the system at 'he reluctantly felt obliged to Prorate himself on this oec 3 - , the prelude to ulteri o r mea s ure . . I le sai d th e n that him 1 thin peculiar Moment some influence which they were un- sion from his hon. friends the liberal members from Ireland, ; noble friend had undervalu e d the crimis in calling it the 1 able to fathom. There was one consideration to and also front those who usually followed the lead of his lion. ; co mmencement o f a struggle, for it was a war and a war in which Roman catholic memhera should pay some atten- and experienced friend the member for Montrose,with whom ; disguise. They were about to involve theme.ave• in a straws tion. The number of Esiglish Roman cathaes bore an he usually acted and voted. (Hear.) It was some corium- ; gle with Ireland which would he prejudicial to both cou n ntries. entirely different proportion compared with the new . loti on however to him to know that he had an his side the 1 Some honourable gentlemen were for a more stringet ma -1 hierarchy, from that born= by the Irish people to their 11134V4 and millions to whom they so constantly appealed. ' sure—they would have all the terrors of priettionire brought hierarchy; and there was wan ti ng i n England that public . (Hear, hear.) He should support the measure belorc the 'to bear against the agg re ssion — but did they not know that opinion amongst the Roman catholic laity which was very . boner., because he consid-red the papal bull to be an in - 1 the prietnunile was of no more worth than a phee of blank ' usefulte in modifying the pretensions and power of the 1 salt to thetemporal and spiritual supremacy of the Queen. paper? In 1 i 92, while Lord Portarlingtott was e.dripLiininq priesthood. The Roman ca - holic hierarchy in England I (Hear, hear.) He considered that an act of parlia.nent was, in the Irinh House of Commons that the catholic, w e re not need not be regarded as so entirely essential 118 that necessary as a record of the opinions of the people of Eng- 1 grateful for all that hod been done for them, and were fun. of Ireland; hut to attempt to limit the ope rations land, and to prevent, if powsible, n recurrence of the aflame. 1 tering sedition, the l'rime Minister was in communicatimt !of any hierarchy, in Ireland or elsewhere, by saying In his opinion the merit of the measure wan, that whilst it , with the Pope. and notwithstanding the act or I•nrumim. ' that on certain subjects they should not assemble or was likely to have this effect it contained nothing like per- receiving a letter of thanks from the Vatic in for his cant I discus., would not only be extremely unjust but totally fin- secution, that it steered a middle course between the of the interests of the Holy See and of the Irish passible. Synodic action meant nothing more than a act of I bigotry of Exeter-hall and the übleefitr tartar. of the right • people—and he believed if the secrets of Downing . 1 gentlemen, invested with certain power., meeting together hon. baronet the member for Ripon. (Hear.) It appeared street were exposed , it would be found that the H and agreeing upon certain subjects. ow that could be Ito him that the church of Rome haul been waiting for the minister had often been in communication with the Pope. prevented by law he was unable to conceive. They might 1 last ten years with its mouth wide open in the hope that It was manifest front the tenor of the documents received be driven to do in o , •eret what otherwise they would have I the church of England would fall into it. (Laughter.) The from the Holy See in the time of Geo. 111. that the appoint done openly ; mid if there were any danger this would in- Pope had shaken the tree, but had only brought the un- went of the Roman catholic bishops re-toed with the Pope, finitely Mere:tee it. (Hear, hear.) Much had been said ripe fruit on his head. (Laughter.) The Pope had ample and yet, although we paid her Majesty's minist. re Mr tell about the Synod of I :lurks :he believed that in no other cause to suspect a falling-off from the church of England. ing the truth, had they told the people of England the assembly of the heads of any religions denomination in this _ The noble lord the member for Bath had shown very con- truth in the matter of the appointment of Catboat Wise country would there have been found so many advocates of elusively that the papal aggression was owing to Puseyism. man and his colleague,. ? (hear, hear.) It moreover up ocular education as had been found in the: Synod of (Ileur, hear-) The people of this :smarty had no liking for pared from the documents to which lie renyrcul that the Thuile.. (Hear, hear.) Ho owned that this measure Puseyiem or popery. Neither of the words were popular, canons and discipline by which. the Roman catholic church would in some degree affect the civil liberties of the people and h e believed the former was leas popular than the latter. was governed were the same now us they had e tinted in all of this country; soul on that ground it was essential that it (Hear.) The people looked on l'uneyism and popery as times and in all parts of the world, and it. tiny had been should he founded on a brood hada Ile could not bring having the same relation to each other as a grub laid down by the Council of Trent. Hit were not so dark, himself to neglect entirely the opinion. of his constituent', as and a butterfly. (Laughter.) Puseyisin they looked he should like to survey the pallid cheeks of her Majesty's was done by many hon. members ; and it was a curious phc- on as the chrysalis of popery. (Great lauglder.) ministers (laughter), in order to gee whether he had not nomenon that those member. who appeared montto disregard It had nothing more to do than to cast off its skin and ex- succeeded 111 raining a bluish. (Loud laughter.) the opinions of their constituents were the very members pond its wings in order to become full blown popery. It lie feared that if this bill were passel, disloyal symptoms who, on questions in which they happened to agree with their was evident from the quotation made by the noble lord that would again be evoked, that the own in the gullenes, would constituent., Were continually referring to those opinions. Dr. Wiseman contemplated, in the year 1841, a union of be heard clapping for Mitchell and O'Brien, and that the Whenever he haul felt it necessary to (Ida from his consti. the church of England with the church of Hume, for he at language of the poet would be quoted: Went., in declaring his own opinion he had always asserted that time said that there was a growing love and affection A t h ole hig John aow. e ot a a wind aw y, ay. day, their.. After all, this was entirely . a question of public for the rites and ceremonies of the Roman catholic church, For swing opinion. Ile dick not lalieve the h ill would satisfy the and expected that at no distant day the Anglican (Loud laughter.) lie entreated hon. nu others to recollect people of England, but it was all the legislature could do, elturch would forsake the errors of that church anul seek that Lord Castlereagh, as the representative of the King and all it ought to do, to eatinf them. This bill would for refuge in the church of Rome. (Hear, hear.) h a d promieed the Irish people catholic emancipation as the not content that public opinion, f or it went far beyond any- When he had seen in all the churches where l'uneyite mime of restoring public tranquillity. Tiled promise, how thing the bill could do. Should the result be, as he feared clergymen were to he found the rites and ceremonies of ever, had not been fulfilled by the English minister until it would, the übrogation of tho act of 1820, and the the Raman catholic religion—when he had seen, its signs 30 years afterwards, and therefore the contpaet made with exclusion from parliament of men of the highest merit, of the times, charity tool mercy masquermling in the the Irish people at the period of the union had virtually been execlletwe, and distinction, on account of their religious streets in Roman catholic attire—mud when, wherever tlestntycil. The noble lord (Ituseell) hail referred to a Henry opinion:, the blame must rest on this untoward act of these protestant fungi had arisen, the good ohl terms, o tatt „„ , who haul once had a stoat in that house. the court of Rome, which, by unreasonably provoking the "morning service" and "earning service" had been (Laughter.) A comparison between the two Henry Grat public opinirm of this country, would go far to preveut all changed to ma ti ns an d vespers—(laughter)—this was, tans would not he appropriate—(langliter) -•-but he could the good which the act of 1813 contemplated. 'this was a he knew, the ease in Bristol, in Manchester, and in tell the noble lord that though Ursa alojor was gene, result which he contemplated with great pain, believing Liverpool—was it wonderful, then, that the Pope, in- Ursa Minor was still lat—(great lauglitt 1., -and as Ursa that it was only by a fair representation of all opinion!, rc- formed of all thin by Dr. Wisetnau, should have enter- Minor haul a tongue (he would net say ti, th, 1,,r he da ligioue or otherwise, that the national welfare could be tinned strong hopes that the English church was about to not wish to lacerate the noble lord more than the nobla secured. It was not by this legislation, nor even by exclud- renounce its errors ? Why, the Archbishop of CanterhurY lord haul lacerated himself), the government and the lag catholic members front parliannett, that the progress of would have acted eimilarly under similar cireuinstanevi• house should hear what his (Lr. Gentian's) opinions the catholic religion could be resisted—that question lay far Suppose tidings had reached Lambeth palace that in the were. (Continued laughter.) The noble lord had deeper, in other regions of thought and intelligence. Ile Roman catholic cathedral of St. George's the candle- referred to illustrious mantes, hoping that the connexion of haul no doted as to the ultimate result of the contest ; but it sticks and candles had been removed—that the font his own with these would save him from lii , ..gritte ; but it would continue long, and coulduntly be won by the extension of holy water was dry—that the mysterious bell had been suggested that he (Lunt John Russell) should of education, by the universal assertion of truth, and by clear- had ceased to ring; and that the priests had put away their appeal to the living. The name of Plunked had been ing away everything that obetrurted the progress of the splendid lace garment+, and adopted the surplice, what mentioned; but he (Mr. Grattan) advised the noble foal human mind. Let the people of England appeal to those conclusion would the Archbishop of Canterbury hove arrived not to refer in that quarter. He did not deserve a clutrac influences, and Ise with them content; and should thin re- at ? Why, that Dr. Wiseman was approaching the church ter, and he would not get it. (Laughter.) The hon. mem milt be hastened by the unfortunate art of the Pope, in- of England ; and could they have blamed the archbishop tier proceeded, amid loud and reiterated cries of " Divide," weal of regretting, they would have reason to rejoice in it. if lie had put forth his holy crozier, and seizing Dr. Wise- to speak of the general state of Ireland at the pm stilt mo (Hear, bear.) man by one of his red leg., helped him into the protestant went an indicative of the danger likely to arise from the Mr. SADLEIR (who mac along with about half the sheepfold? (Laughter.) There was sufficient evidence passing of the proposed bill. The catholic , of the south members on the opposition benches., including Sir F. that he had correctly represented the Pope's view. Let were loud in the expressions of their opposition to this mea- Thesiger) said the last speaker had fully answered bin owe them consider the boastful exultation with which the Roman sure ; and as the protestants of the north were becoming reasous fur supporting the bill. Ile deprecated the catholic hierarchy received the intelligence of this move- daily more in cartoon 011 the question of tenant right, wretched spirit of religious bigotry which had so =forte- mcnt on the part of the Pope. As to the ques- he warned the house not to trifle with the people. nattily characterised that debate. The hon. gentle- tem whether enough was being done, he held that it was Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY did not rise to Menet mun (Mr. Milnes) haul admitted that there was a not enough. The protestant, of England, wishing the her the debate with any argument on any mphr iininedi hatred of popery in England. No doubt of it, and noble lord to act up to the spirit of his letter, called with atcly before it. (Laughter.) Ilc repented, hi. would attempt this constituted a great dittivulty in the way of legislating one voice for a reform of the Church of England. (Hear, no trash arguments in an exhausted discussion. Ile simply foracuminunity consisting of both protestants and catholic. lien.) lie knew that to many lion. gentlemen the very rose to repudiate a most unwarrantable attack which had The hon. gentleman (Mr. MiMes) informed the bowie that word reform appeared terrific; but the reform which lie bcenmade, a few nights ago, in that hotter, upum the Roman the people of England had a horror of bishops which err - wo u ld p oint to was very simple. Let the protestants of ca th o li c f a ith— a n attack which he held to he most disgrace , tainly should he consoling to the Roman catho'lics of Eng- England have a defined rubric and a defined ritual, and flit to that holm. Ile rose, sin an indignant isrigestant— land and Ireland. Nevertheless he (Mr. Sadleir), as a let it be made penal for any clergyman to attempt to engraft (laughter)—to repudiate emphatically such aid as had been Roman catholic, could assure the hon. gentleman that that the rites, ceremonies, or doctrines of any strange church what- offered to their glorious protestant cause by the hon. mem church could not efficiently perform its sacred functions waver upon the ritual and rubricof the Church of England. bet- (Mr. 11. Drummond) for West Surrey. (Laughter, and except through the agency of ri. hierarchy. The hon. - (Hear.) The laity molt stand forward and insist upon this. erica of " hear, hear .") Ile inaintaincil that the • speech I. . .. . . _ . _ _ Well did Dr. So' 'et. Dean of Bristol-sind in mentioning - - '• - . _ - _ - _ . slier was adi Dr. Elliott, led spoken by that hon. menths that • brought undo. liogruc to nny cal it of on. that was ever brought u...er liberate... anv scmbly. (" Hear, hear," and " Question.") le he was interrupted, he would adjourn the debate. Had they not heard, when superstition was spoken of, that there were persons iu West Surrey win denied —(here a storm of calls for a division, and to the question, rendered the hon. gentleman totally unheard foe some time. He concluded, us we understeol, by saying that the charges made by the hon. member for West Surrey were as false as they could possibly he.) If he (Mr. Berkeley) voted for the measure before the house, it would be simply on principle, not because he thought the measure efficient or competent to cope with the difficulty against which it was directed, but because he thought some sufficient legislation was due to the protestant religion in this country. (Divide.) Lord CASTLEREAGH (who was indistinctly heard throughout, owing to the noises and impatienee which prevailed) said that he was naturally indispie.ed to enter upon a subject so painful as that now before the house, and he should not have wished to put himself forward, being sensible he had nothing to add, had he not presumed that his constituents would expect that he should shortly express his opinions. Ile trusted, however, that even if warmed with the subject, nothing would fall from him that could wound the feelings of any one. With his catholic fellow-countrymen, so far as religion was can , evened, he could have no sympathy. There was a wide gulf between them—a great difference of opinion— and he had too pure an attachment to that apustolicid branch of the church to which he belonged, and which he loved. to hare any religious sympathy with those who entertained different opinions. But while he differed from their views he could hold out the hand of good fellowship to them. Within those walls he had stood side by side with them in defence of civil and religious liberty. The house should reflect that the measure was against the voice of the whole people of Ireland. The noble lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had said, with respect to the hill, that it was a small mew. sure, and that he would not vote for it if it contained any principle of intolerance. Ile did nut, however, think that the judgment of the noble lord upon the bill was upon the whole a fair one. The noble lord could nut have forgotten the demonstration of the bur of Ireland, and in fact the measure appeared to satisfy nobody, and there was something is the mode of passing the bill that was peculiarly obnoxious. It was the reactionary policy of a transition ministry. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord was here rendered completely inaudible by the hum of conversation in the house. We understood him to rebuke the tone and temper of acrimony which had pervaded the 4:SC11,4011, only to satisfy and flatter the protestant feeling of England. Such a tone and temper, he believed, could never lead to any good in discussing any question. Ibis 01 • • was, that it would be impo , ible practically to cat out this the deli to carry . He had now only to say, that convinced as he was of the impolicy of this measure—a measure which satisfied no one in this country, and which would irritate, annoy. and disturb Ireland, he should certainly give his vote against it. Mr. A. B. HOPE rose amid loud and continued cries of " Divide, divide, " " Adjourn, adjourn ;" but scarcely a complete sentence of what he uttered reached the gallery. He continued with great pertinacity to address the house for the space of 15 minutes, during which the excitement at times almost reached a tumult, and the noises were of the most vehement and in congruous character. The cries, however, et " adjourn, adjourn," and "divide, divide," were moo prominent, the latter predominating. We understood the hon. member to express his thorough hostility to the bill before the house, and to denounce it as opposed to the principles of civil and religious liberty. He said that the chief difficulty of mem bers on the ministerial side of the home was, whether to praise the measure for being competent, or praise it fur being incompetent. (Laughter, uproar, and erica of "Divide, divide.") If there was any insult connected with what was called papal aggression,the insult had come from the Pope, and the bishops were comparatively the innocent parties. (Great uproar, and cries of " Divide, divide," " Adjourn, adjourn.") They must recollect, that if the Pope imposed any duty on the vicars apostolic, they were bound by their allegiance to him to carry it out—(continued uproar—Mr. Hope persisting with his speech in the midst of the Babel of sounds. At this stage, the renewed mid strenuous at tempts of the Speaker could not secure for the hon. mem ber a hearing—the noises continued as loud and as numerous as before.) Supposing some question of European interest should arise, in which it would be nece:sary for them to enter into an entente cordiale, it would be impossible for them to do so provided tho bill at present before the house were on the statute hooks. (Loud and continued uproar, which continued until the hon. gentleman reached the last sentence of his address.) Having opposed the mea sure which had been introduced with its three clauses, he was now prepared to oppose it, with its one clause, as a measure of a petty character, disgraceful to the magnani mity of this country, discreditable to the civilisation of the Anglo-Saxon race, and utterly repulsive to that system of toleration which they professed to have adopted. They must abandon such a course of legislation as this measure indicated if they were not prepared to make this nation sink amongst the lowest of the earth—if they were not will ing to have it a nation dealing in expediency, fertile in shams, and sterile in those great principles of policy which ought to guide an enlightened and civilised country. (Laughter and uproar.) Mr. HOBHOUSE, amid loud and reiterated cries of " divide, divide," moved the adjournment of the debate. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I think that hon. members must admit that the debate has been carried on • sufficient length of time to enable the house to come to a decision on this measure. (Hear, hear.) I find that 28 members of this house have spoken against the bill, sad 22 for it ; and we have, I think, heard the ablest arguments which can be adduced against proceeding further with the debate on the second reading. Although we added six days' further debate, I do not think we could elicit much more. (Hear, hear.) I do trust, therefore, that if there be any hon. gentlemen who still wish to address the house that they will do so now. (Cheers, and cries of " divide, divide.") Mr. MOORE, who was interrupted at every sentence by loud cries of " divide, divide," said he took the liberty of informing the noble lord at the head of the government that there were a great number of hon. gentlemen still anxious to speak, and when they re collected that the Irish members had had but a ray thank the noble lord (Lord Johii the name he was , I to Russell) for having appointed to the office a clergyman who so much honoured his calling—well did Dr. Elliott say at a large meeting at Bristol, where the laity and clergy of all denominations were mingled, that it was the duty of the laity to stand firm, and see that clergymen did their duty, adding the memorable ezpression—memorable as falling from the lips of a beneficed clergyman: " Let the clergy of all denominations understand that they are nut the lords of God's heritage." (Hear.) This was not a time for false de licacy, and he must declare his belief that in this matter the Bishop of Bristol and Gloucester was sum saspieione expeis, and the Bishop of London rum omni saspirione major. The Bishop of London had stated that while the rubric was in its present state, he could not keep his clergy from error. This was a time, therefore, when the noble lord should act up to the spirit of his letter and give the country a salutary reform. In conclusion, he would observe that over the Speaker's chair he mile emblazoned on the arms of England a golden legend, to which they would do well to pay attention, " Dieu et sites droll," and he must say that that was a moment when it became them to respond to the appeal, to stand by the Queen in the name of God :red her right. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. YOUNG could not hut look upon this measure as one which would have the effect of irritation. Even in its un mutilated state it would scarcely have been an addition to the existing safeguards. It would open a breach instead of proving a pillar of strength, and lead to fresh and still more irritating legislation in exhaustless succession. It was not by measures of restriction, or by penal laws, but by the cultivation of those arts and the strengthening of those institutions which had been favourable to the rights of conscience, that they should endeavour to meet papal aggression. Protestantism was based upon free discussion, and with that the reformed religion would be safe. The other night the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) passed a high encomium on Sir James Mackintosh, an author with whom as an historian he (Sir J. Young) did not happen to be ac quainted, though he had some knowledge of his other works. Sir James Mackintosh said that the (cars of revolution be coming universal, the catholic monarchs saw that an alli ance was necessary, and believed that two religions in a state were as incompatible as two governments. They saw that recent attempts to overthrow the domination of priests might end in the overthrow of kings. But surely that fal lacy had been long exploded ; and it had been found that two religions might flourish side by side with the most per fect safety to the state. (Hear, hear.) He (Sir J. Young) had no fear that those who were attached by principle and education to the protestant church would be converted by any insidious attempts at proselytism. Many gentlemen had referred to the state of foreign countries as a reason for passing this bill ; but, if they wanted to draw . . - should back to the state of those fair'analogy, they go countries at the period of the reformation. In Spain before Philip could tread out the last embers of the refor mation, he was obliged to take the charters from the cor porated towns. In Italy also, in the republics, a great la titude of religious opinions prevailed. In Holland, with free institutions, the liberty of conscience was complete. In England the reformation was established, but not perfect toleration. What was the lesson to be drawn from this? Surely, that wherever there were free institutions, the rights of conscience were respected, and there the reforma tion had least to fear. Laws like that proposed by the noble lord were perfect libels on free institutions. It was on these grounds he rested his opposition. Ile believed that the state, in taking this measure in hand, was going be yond its province, and that all the state could properly do for religion was to maintain, in dignity and respect, as established church, giving to all dissenters the most full and complete toleration. He believed that ouch a COllOlll was essential to the safety of the established church, and was also the one most in accordance with its doctrine. (Hear, hear.) At an early period in the debate the noble lord had said that if the party Against whom he legislated did not recede, we were only at the commencement of a long and arduous struggle. Ile (Sir John Young) did not know whether the modifications which the bill had undergone would induce them to do so, he hoped it would, because he believed that nothing could be more dangerous to the country than the continuance of the present agitation. But this he would say, to those upon whom the chief weight of this struggle would fall, let them weigh well the consequences. He maintained that the heat of the struggle would fall on the protestants of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) In England, where the vast majority were protestants, the struggle might be light; but in Ireland the case was different ; and let the protestant, there, from their experience of the past, reckon uo what might be the conse quences in future. Let them remember the struggle which they had maintained for a century and a half against the Roman catholics of Ireland, in which ever power of the state was put in motion, and the result was patent to the world. It was true that a few great families, with their sycophants and adherents, divided the plunder of the land, but the middle and lower classes of protestant, were neglecter), and their manufactures were annihilated. (Hear.) The venal and sectarian parliament of Ireland, while keeping up a party cry, connived at measures which in the end ruined the country. How had the protestant church itself fared in Ireland? When protestant intendancy was at its height, when bishops were amassing fortunes, and rectors were living pleasantly at English watering plac'es, it was thought such things might last for ever; but since that time the protestant church had passed through a period of great suffering. If the church had been then as spiritual mad energetic as now, the result might have been different, bat in that struggle the protestants came out at the end less is numbers than at the commencement ; their church was despoiled of half its property, and the injury was com =by the destruction of ten bishoprics. Such having the result of one struggle, he warued the protestants of Ireland to pause before they entered into another. (Hear, hear.) Let them not be misled by any notion of temporary triumph, or depend on allies who had repeatedly deserted I them. He believed the measure before the house to have bees proposed in perfect good faith and sincerity, but he opposed it as a violence done to that perfect toleration, which in his conscience he believed would do more for the cause of real religion and the spread of spiritual truth than all the defences that alarm could suggest, or all the safe guards which a strong, but unguided, enthusiasm could ori ginate. (Cheers.) Mr. H. GRATTAN said that the agitation which was just commencing was not a struggle, as it had been called by the hon. member for Cavan, but • war in disguise. wr