The Express. — London, England, 1847-05-22 00:00:00

'.. rs~e.Jl.. ThiSOLICITORARICEILLL TOR IRELAND **lda . ' there wee scarcely amp satire* sa s taalnitirldNl• apes If Ma rester and* liir - iltln Ise 1 ii • *rd. TIP arsulfibtat et dittsenso 'bad gii Dl= I ~mots. no *tie hg, prodiata sad had given each , that It sir dills& to tag what was, tit era l V i tl i tilaw. Sol. at Ireland was massnalk 1100 4 4 7 , *Selo Vav ia trod that the lest off wigs receiving 1161111 Ur; but probably dot arse from: . *re itat a trZ wa hrm arpotrdow in *shad since the T. 411111ilig•I AN. There had been &Mamie as to Area various charities, but the receipt of Ellb sedwid lird not hese generally eoridered sufficient to dis t* *rat Solar as his wn opinion went, he should • VieOtt sir W tie cy of Ireland, the fact M • AW re= net easesearily disfrenebiee them. With 1411100 lei dr horough tweadtaency there was no pro mmoo• • inuee eber A.N. SEDUCTION R AND PROSTITUTION SUPPRESSION BILL. Mr. W. COLLETT naked ii it ware intended to peer this till that evening. It would be a conveniewes * itrynsens • has of the house who were determined to doer it, if It could he postpaid. • Mr. SPOONER said that as only MIS arintsee were (pod to °ppm it, there were not rang of **dm who would be either orvenieneed or hmossysalsord by_ its cc ming on. He should certainly press it won the serf first opportunity. IRTSEI DISTRESS. rho cHANcELEoitToiibeikeHIMITER said it would be in the recollection of tho house that rornetinte be- Gra Ei+ter he bad obtsiood in commies, of supply on tid y ince of MOW. for the relief of Irish distrese. He wished C:111 to give notice that on Friday neat he should a.k the house to go into onsitaittes with • view to tote a further odvanos._____ _ . . -• . Mr. HUME hoped that by that time some statement would be laid before the house rs to the way in which the money already voted had been expended. Lord G. BENTINCK hoped the right' hon. gentleman would be in a condition to state upon that occasion that the government would be enabled at an early day to bold out a prospect of reduction in the enormous staff at present em pluyed upon Irish works. W.ilst the workmen employed had been reduced from 600,000 to 240,000, the statf con enued to cost from 16,0001. to 17,0001. a week, or nearly 400,000/. a year, of which immense sum onafourth was charged exclusively to the governmeut. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the irote he should propose would not be for public works. He mentioned that, to correct the erroneous impreeaioo which rs:e noble lord's speech might convey. He should be happy i• he could hold out any hope of reduction in the number of peke» employed upon the public works in Ireland ; for it would give him es much pleasure as it could possibly ire the noble lord to find that the residents in Ireland were oing their duty and taking on themselves the working of e Relief Act. IMPRISONMENT OF A FACTORY GIRL. " Mr. FERRAND asked If the Home Secretary would, during the recess, institute any inquiry into the came of the factory girl respecting whom ha had presented a panties that evening > Sir 0. GREY ssid he should give no pledge whatever upon such a subject. The reeem could make no difference in Ole course which in each matters he should think it right to adopt. The hon. member had brought the case to the Home. office the day before yesterday, end he (Sir G. Grey) was 4uund to say that there appeared nothing illegal upon the lace of the 6eM related to him. NEWFOUNDLAND. Mr. G. W. HOPlCii4iiieWifabiiie;lied the Newfound. land Government Bill, which stood for second reading that evening, was to be proceeded with that night? It had not even yet been printed. Mr. B. HAWES sail there was nothing in the bill to which the how. member could object. It simply restored to the colony its old oonstitation. Mr. H OPE said he had not intimated that he was going to object to it. All he had said was, that he should like to ace it. A bill, eves though it "simply restored an old con etitution," ought to be in their hand/ before they passed it. - AFFAIRS OF PORTUGAL. Mr. HUME stoked whether the noble lord would lay on -the table of the house the instructions glean to Sir W. -Parker and the ether officers sent out by the British govern ment to Portugal. Lord J. RUSSELL could not at present lay the instruc tions before the house. . . . . . Mr. HUME ^ ltare notice that he should bring the subject Owler the consideration of the house immediately after the 4110001. POOR-LAW.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr. BORTH WICK opened the adjourced debate. He said he could not view with env favour a bill which did not deetroy one vicious principle of the measure of 1834. He reprehended the manner in which the hon. and learned member for Bath had sme ll ed the hon. member (or . . ZdrepuiiaTei the bon. and learned 'ember's implied proposition, that because the hon. 4rnember for Knareaborough had not written Shakspeare or invented the =salad glasses, he was thcrefure not entitled to (cereal an opinion on the subject before the house. Us denied that the 43rd Elisabeth was too act which created for the poor the right to relief. The right of the poor to relief had been acknowledged front all time. There were many acts on the English statute • *lt, long prior to the 43rd Elisabeth, all recognising that i ienalth that in the pert whisk the honourable member the litemeltesett* eYifeaMl for them. He denied that the gusset kw *died the definition given to it by its prometees—that ed &local administration soder • central math The astral control ws i end, as reel, _should always receive his opposition . It hitherto waded as a system of dewy to the poor, what ever the edge lord the raeother for London might my to the ecortnep. Men had pthithwid, akildree hod under its herahlegeleiewn The hoe. neembse tee borough Ind eolith this oeselredive weeder, and the aside lord had eigasted lee d yam, a, bet le weld till the smile lord thee thelaimaini Mss Mel and "Moping is OM el -meek La emir*. /be M. and bane samba krill It had ridiculed 141011111. idled% hae=edd . But had the bea. add ivernid wise hob reed Vatted, and litheimainal_ Mrs. Trollops, who, like the elder Shandy, woe Athol in th e leareieg of the re nowned Blawkenbergiay poised a better moment He (Mr Bortii) senthellei that hie we e friend Lad 'made w arp awl anted -aersdeella ' the honourable rad banal seabee hr ate week In vas attempt to West*. With reepest le the bid itself, he wholly objected WI dlll irresponsible powers eine to the oersteds. sinner.. Not the repartee** Andover c•immittee, ho did not think: them gentlemen is bed se they bad been represented. but NM be should in othisoktee--sbould the 1,31 reach that otesit—move that them powers be brought b:fore parliament Oath in threw ter the purp or of ' revision. Thu mamba ewasadthby expressing his intention of vM with the mud rewires of the bill. Mr. MILES mY . doethe Wm mambos who had just eat awn had esseesiedtlesssit with enowering the speech of the hos. sad leaned member he Beth. If that course were patinesel, they weak net get te the end of the debate for two or three weeks. (Hear, hear.) They should turn their thlithtten to abet the bill really was. They had their choice ea to the birds to which was to be plawd the controlling power. The i = e give it either to the oil magistracy, to the or to the new board proposed by the nobre r t:r. Pas the ant, he believed there would be but few advisees astoop die of the house. (Hear, hear.) As to the seeemd. ha wondered why, after the speech of the noble lord, he *timid soak diange in the commission. Why, his epee& tees to and was one continued defence et tar present essoldelsesers. (Hear, hear.) Then as to whet the posse& When he remembered I is &maw &Wes tba bla, of State running from 1 the tromey leashes te a poor- aw commissioner under I the platy be faSsevembia with which to defend thanes of dedivldwal himaidis, he most theme his opinion • that nisi ea empleyerat mesa asororthy one, end that the system regehmilirerldsa. Ober, hear.) He led me hadde bou in silk( that he yeelheesd *aboard as prepaid by the r-able lord to the on. which at preessd existed. lie thothith it but right that there should be souse person in that hem rzsponsible far Ow sets of the post-law sonsmissionere. NA should support tho second reading of the bill ; but he did sot thereby bind Unwell to all the demos. To many of the clauses he had objections, and neesatie propose 0/1101111•111Sb in committee. He concurred in the thetrine thee this pow had an inalienable right to relied bet only to • while ex tent, and their destitution to be tried by a certain Wt. The pear-law conceded the right, but required to have a tweet destitution. He won lorry to say that that test was grodaely slipping from under their feet. (Hear, hear.) Al Month say was, that he woe satisfied with what had been pima he Are them, and did not at all regret that central hallow substituted for county control. (Hear, hear.) He sheath certainly support the seemed reading of the bill. Mr. ESCOTT would ask whether the new ecommth sion was likely to he more efficient than that at pon sent in existence, from the ilia of its sanding ono or two plassemea to the House of Commons ? He felt Wad to vote against this new commission, because be believed, it would be much more objectionable to the segatsg than the one which it was in.ended to etameala TM noble lord (J. Russell) himself, in hie sposth d the previous night, had stated strong constitutiemth meths *shut such a commission. If he (Mr. R.cott) theththitthe new commission was not worse than the old, he should mill Tote against it. The feeling of the present commildon ahoold he one of shame and repentance, for the ooly grimed upon which the change was proposed .as, that that commie. then had wholly failed is its objects. Their controlling power had never been used for good, hut often for evil, and they had shown their courage or cowardice in enforcing the rules they had laid down, precisely in proportion to the determination of the boards of guordians with whom they lead to deal. Wherever the law had worked well, it was I , .•csuse the guardians had disregarded the orders of the commissioners. (Hear, hear) The hon. member, to show the vacillating conduct of the oommistioners, referred to their various orders In reforest* to out door relief, and for relieving cases of sudden end urgent necessity. The effect of the workhouse test,whieh he supposed was to be continued, was, that it starved oat of the house the honest and illtila)- triol,lll man, while it relieved the idle vagabond who had no feelings of Pie to incises him to refuse relief within the e l ope, but who went in and Atwood there, and thine out, wises he did come out, a bloated victim of the workhouse tat. (A laugh.) What the people required was, that the • L e wis which wens to bind the country in reference to the re lief of the poor should be passed by parliament itself, and that the power should not be delegated, as they contended (*ad he agreed with them) it weld rot constitutionally be, Go another body. They also required a fair ant equal system , aerating, and that the great owners of property—the secithed latoreet of the constry—ohnuld contribute in 011 to th eir poverty. If this were done, th=r ti den to the weepier might be reduced two-thirds with out any diminution of the amount of relief glum. Rat they had no hope of a fair theta& of rating emanating boa the present Howse of Commons. What was now the medians of the working Mem 1. Tag.— k easing amnia stead mg Ma Mies, and what su— sses doshls the umalprien iltimeetawg mast be dem to t this evil. It wee ell very weak MB ant armors audhosplo of above that they should Mee tie raw of wages ; bin gel labour offered, they wouldwasrallp get Italtheehrapirt ra The ratelinyen wage midis meths se Yam. 8n hit es ti farmers.( the wasted helm's, 014 they were leisgeffiday mall isseadatethe wallnis. alb paor. At a m t in they. were sepplylag their Meearan with wheat at in shweel, though thirsis#M.prise was 14s. He oteigailsi that it was mom is amigo the peseta pop- Pan of the labourer on the rettleywo, upsa whom the chid Minim sitshe par-sate hid been Mims, far the purpose of eusspffse the greet mended lateral& Is masbrisa, ht celled on miasma to Mime the land frees the avid burdens to which it was sahlessed and compel the sassisd elms* to statribute their felt slim. Kr. WALLEY fait that the public emit be disappointed with the bill Was the house. They looked ter a mature .(relief, but he believed they would find this he bara mea lmare of aggravation. (Hear, hear.) This was mkt unfortu nate for the present government, for he thipakt they were sodded to great praise for the course thet..s . l ad adopted in reference to the poor-law for Ireland. Cheery.) The I noble lord's speech of last night the noble had himself answered by anticipation. The Lord J. Russell of 1834 had answered the Lord J. Russell of 1847. (° Bear," and a laugh.) He (Mr. Wakley) those the younger Ems, and preferred the arguments of the Lord J. Russell of Int to those of the Lord J. Ettuell of 1847. In 1834 the noble lord objected se strongly to • psen law commissioner being a minister of the crown, that he exerted all his influence with I Lord Althorp to event it, and succeeded. (Hear, bear.) The noble lord hail now yielded to some aieister advice 1 given him by some pawn who did not regard the stability of 1 the government, or the welfare of the poor, and he bad made 1 the present unconstitutional proposition. It wee nothing more than uniting the legislative and executive powers on a subject in which millions of.persons were interested. In • political crisis, every board orguardiaus would be a patted 'twine, and w hat would become of the interests of the poor ? What did the noble lord , expect would be the working of this merman ? Were the government jealous of the peculiar prosperity of the poor-law commissioners? (Laughter.) The honourable secretary would always be called the Poor-law Commissioner sitting at the Horne -office. (Laughter.) What would be the questions the ministers as Poordaw Commianioners would have to decide ? It would not do to say that • question had been referred to the Poor , law Commiaioners. That wee at an end—their independent authority was gone. They had been not only the ace of the guard em bat of the government. The no:L fi rorl said if there was a proposition condemnatory of them ha would oppose it; he therefore should not disapprove of their conduct, and he was prepared fur his colleagues following their example. If that were so the government would not be long in office. Suppose a question as to the diet recommended by • hoard of guardians was to arise. For instance, en the 17th January, 1848, a letter was addressed to the poor-law com missioners by the clerk of the Bromley union, which stated an alteration in the dietary of the workhouse. It wee, that en Wednesdays four and a half ounces of bread and a pint and a half of soup were to be given to the general inmates, instead of seven ounces of bread and one of cheese, and a meat pudding for the children on Thursday instead of bread and cheese. To this an answer wan returned on the 31st of January, requiring the special reason for altering the existing dietary. A letter was then written by the clerk on the 13th of February. (Thee, were the questions which were to be coastently brought into the House of Commons. He (Mr. Wekley) should always invite persona to bring them forward, and he would be ready to do so,) The letter stated, in answer to the commissioners' let ter of the 31st, that the alteration of the dietary was proposed by a member of the board, and was referred to a committee ; they refused to agree to it, but it was subse quently ordered by the board. It was stated that the increase of expenditure for the soup would not be more than WI. a year for a hundred inmates, and 4/ 6e. Bd. for pudding for forty children. The decision of the commissioners, in a letter of 12th February. was that it wasinzapedient to make any such alteration. Were they to discuss questions of this kind con stantly in that house? The noble lord (f. Russell) intimated dissent, and he perhaps meant that his colleagues would be so liberal that they would not act in that manner; and, as be said in his speech last night, relief would be liberally given. The difficulty, however, would be insurmountable, and no ministry could overcome it, for every one of these questions would b-come a government question. It would, in feet, make the govern ment a committee of masters in workhouses. In tie Brom ley union the allowance of meat per week to an able-bodied man was five ounces, and three to a woman, with seven I ounces of bread and one of cheese per day. What was the allowance is the House of Correction ? He would first read the whole dietary in the Bromley uuion:—On Sunday—Men, six ounces bread, women five; gruel or milk porridge, a pint and half ; sixteen ounces meat pudding fur dinner for men, and ten for women. Supper: sir ounces bread, and one plat milk porsidge. After Sunday, for dinner not a parade of meat, and only five ounces during the entire weak. Dinner on Tuesday, 16 ounces suet pudding, end vegetables CO Fridays; and on other dap seven ounces Mead gad Me MU 11111401. Now in the Home of Cori reedem—Peir breakfast: is Monday, cocoa 1 pint, 6 2,3 ounces Lead; the women the same as the men. There was no damsel in the allowance to women; and it was hard that than was no increase of allowance to women in the siaelthetnes with children at the breast. At dinner: 8 2-3 caner kead and 6 ounces meat on Tuesdays, Thies !au, and ilsturdays. Thus • criminal woman had 24 ounces of meet a week, end a poor one in the workhouse had only three. Were the government to make • qsatisa, Mut this of the Bromley union, • g ,- unlink masa+ t add If they were to set as the poor law *Winans did, then did they think that they could wand a was* i The power would be with the boards of guardismoial they would rule the government, and the - maid p to the wall. If this bill missed, • feeling of wish' arise which would peril the institutions of Sim esesley. • Ins this species of centralisation to go on add ing le thus millisalipswer of the government ? Every one of the teak wader kis peer-law would hold their offices at the I wilier the govenment. He was astonished that the noble teed samM make such • proposition. Might not a gemesumat mkt which would abaft this power ? which vim eas Mak • he (Mr. Wakley) tho ught no govern ment sleek have. . The noble lord, in his speech last *Ma bet hied to show the necessity flu this measure. The menedsion was originally intended to be temporary (it was se seated by Lord Althorp), and, consequently it was limited to five years. Although the present bill professed to be only for three yearn, it was clear that it was intended to be permanent. Why poe-the-poor in commission? Why not put over them a judge to control the boards of guardians. He believed there would be no difficulty in pawing such a law. If there was sny defect in the boards of guardians, they should be remodelled. Their elections were now a mere Woe, the mane men remaining on them year after year. All the evils of the old law were to be continued, and there wen merely • new set of men for commissioners, con sisting of four cabinet ministers, and as many more as they liked to add. There was a three-headed monster before, now there was to be a many headed one. He believed the poor would gain as little by the change as they did before. I There would be a great disappointment to the people that there was no change in toe law. The huge unions were to be continued, and all the existing regu lations relative to out-door relief, were to remain. Under the existing law there was no distinction made be tween the culprit and the honest man, and in this respect the statute of Elizabeth was one of the noblest eneetmenta that ever emanated from the legislature of this country. It had given security to property ; it afforded protection to the humbler classes, and, in his opinion, under the benevolent in fluence of that law, England had obtained its supremacy. The first duty which attached and belonged to property was to !live protection to the poor ; and how could hon. members believe themeelves to be in security if their poorer neighhours were suffering from destitution, and probably were in agate of actual starvation. (Hear, hear.) But the principle of the statute of Elisabeth, from which such happy results had flowed, was tots llp allaisatal lo the Poor-law Act now in operation. It was esti Set tide evil was to be cured by the introduction into the esaisaission for the administration of the poor law. of some Ili the ministers of the crown. He lirmry believed that the maim which in this respect the ge -1 IgengliOn was eselp maid be molt unfortunate and dia -1 MM. la Its maim meld be disastrous to the govern. lesea, mil ill is 01111111.11111•111 would be most pernicious to 1 tie Mailltie gni, pit. Throughout the land a feelirg id le boos was hostile to the interest% of the I That feeling had been prod by Ode rembs. Amendment Act, which was isow fall brae awl operation as part and parcel of the law of the land ;_ that feeling would net be re m rved, but, on the contrary, would be increased if the new commission, with the resporeible ministers of the crows at its head, acted in aceordance with the conduct of the commissioners, who, by this bill, were about to be di, - missed. The working-clasees believed, that in this house, there existed no sympathy for their suffering', and they thought that the prop sty which, by their labour, they had nom* men, in the hour of need, to furnish and afford thilialMOlON and assistance. Notwithstanding the ad visory et the Um sad learned member for Bath (Mr. Noe -1 insk), !gbh, ha sugmeisa 119 elserve was not in hie place, he (Mr. Welgap)whimil is sselbe lab ouring classes represented ki dis bee" bellevlas sole did, that nothing would be of • MINIS 11111•111111ative eilirailli, or more calculated to give Waft to the iisibettese of the country. If lit hialausble and keened member for Bath leg thie We to tie labouring classes ' how ma be the • poor-law set would laid ? (Hear, bear.) boseed of the change now proposed, he (Mr. Weik- I ley), mail infinitely prefer the total repeal of the existing law, as, hp so doing, he was convinced that he should pro- mos the bast interests not only of the working classes, but et the Myers who snort bear the burthen. The work- Mum es ahreandsmad, was nothing more nor less than a pi. Oh bed bees shown by the exposure of the transac ting' et lbs Intaglio= Andover union. Would the 119111.1 lest at ibe bead of the government point out, in toe next Mead all bill, what ought to have been the course our- ses4 bt *peer law commissioners in the case of the An bier lens, In that of the Bromley union, and likewise is that If Margate, which had still more recently .waxed. And what was the Margate cam? Under the twenty-mventh section of the existing poor law art, aged persons might obtain relief on receiving the eider.( two magistrntes, one of whom must unify pat of his own knowledge the applicants were incapable of Loboor. lar.Waddington, one of the must able and respectable me li i eel proentionen in Margate, certified in the ease of a man of the aims of Sweetman and his wife, in Febru .7 last, and eat* an application fen their relief ha 4 been made before fhb tee, who, after ken g the case, and the eel- elliflng . 2 4 lr Waddiagton, the surgeon, granted an order for 4 the ehks aoplicaot. Th at order was served upon the 1 le vish, guard ca ians ik , ant . I pp th lici s relief k wi st; gives renewed, ; but the on slid the 1 —.. matter. a fact, had the noble hard at the head of the goes =writ eansidered the poeltion in which the government would be placed Beams of this kind were beereedst before the , house when the poor-law oonemiraiot.ers were represented in it 2 If this bill passed, the government must to prepered to meet all the allegaliemered charges brought egainst the administration of the poor-lawn, and would not have recourse to tha defence hitherto set up. that them complaints bad been referred to the commissioners at Soinerel House. (Hear, hear.) Under all them circumstances, he felt con vinced that the arrangement proposed was meet and thereto' he should oppose the bill in he present stage, and vote for the amendment of the hon. member fur K names borough (M r. Ferreud). Should that amend m ent b. loot. he (Mr. akley) should in every future step give his decided opposition to the further progress of this bill. (Hear, hear,) Mr. VILLIERS sold that after listening to the debate which had token Mace this evening, and to the speeches a the gentlemen who were most vehement iu their opeoaltiol to this bill, he was the more satisfied of the necessity of each a measure as that now proposed to the consideration of the house. Those who had had the patience to listen to the four speeches of to-ni ht —that of the hon. member for Eveshaus r. Borthwiek , of the hon. member for dormreet (Mr. Miles), of the . and learned member toy Warchester (Mr B. Escott), and the hon. member Air Finsbury (Mr. Wakley), who had just concluded, must naturally ask them• selves what these four several speakers proposed should be done in reference to this important question. Al these hon. members differed except as to one point. and inem that, namely, their utter di:cement as to the existing commission, they most wonderfully agreed. ( dear, hear, and a limes), The hon. member for Embers (Mr. Borthwick), in his opposition to this measure, bad eulogised the working popes, lation of this country es being possereed of the dignity of knowing right from wrong—as enjoying the highest spirit of nobility, and as being destitute of every vice. and yet on ad one occasion whin the uppertunity had been sleeted, bad the hon. gentleman voted in favour of the extension of the , suffrage to that clam of the community which he was now ready so strongly to eulogise. The same he might say of the , views of the hon. memoer for Somenetabire ,(Mr. Miles), and of three of the hon. aed learned member for Winchester (Mr. B. Bscutt). The honourab:e member for Finsbury concurred with those honourable mem bers who to-night had preceded him in condemning the present commission, which, he contended, misses, al uncon stitutional powers, and hence he wished the tar-feened etarute of Elisabeth to be returned to. The hon. member for Fins bury had tomight also expressed great faith in local govern meat with reference to the administration of the poor-laws but the hon. member forgot that, so lately as the year 1845, he had declared in his plate here, that " it was universally known in this country that the tyranny, the oppression, the' cruelty, and the mal.adminietmtion of the poor-law was found to be produced by the boards of guardians, and not the poor-law commissioner." And still more recently, the honourable member complained that the provisions of the statute of Elizabeth were not reverted to. He did not wish to charge the bon, member for Finsbury with ignorance of the history of kis country, but he must remark that the boo. member, when be eulogised such an enactment, forgot the tyrannous and brutal character of the laws then in force. If the hon. member would look back he would find that under the law he to much eulogised, a man who after being removed from a parish had entreated was by law Bogged as a vagrant ; that on the second return he was liable to be branded on the forehead ; on the third repetition of the same offence, he could to sold as a slave and on the fourth, if he should hare the hardihood to repeat hie offence, he might, by the operation of the law, be hung as a felon. (Hem, hear.) Such were the provi sions of the statutes in force in those !meaty days, to which the four speakers of to-night wished to come bask. (Hear, hear.) But in all them diversities of opinion he was anxious to see the department connected with toe administration of poor relief represented in this house. The presence of responsible minister in this department, prepared to give et once a reply to the exaggerated statements put forth, would tend to relieve the public mind from the effects thous exaggerations were most likely to ro deo*. For these reasons he was disposed to adopt the change proposed in the present system. Ile defied the hon. member for Knaresherough (Mr. Ferranti) to prove that - the central poWer Satinet of great advantage to the poor, and that whatever of tyranny or of undue economy ex isted in the working of the law was to be attributed, not to the aommisaioners, but to the beard of guardians, as had been admitted by the honourable member for Finsbury (Mr. Wakley) in the extracts he (Mr. Villiers) had quoted. It was not the law that succeeded, it was the administration of it that was succesaful. AVMs hon. gentlemen said that the law was a good one, they paid a high compliment to the central power, which was so much condemned. When per sons talked about the principles of the law connected with, the central power, they warmly knew what they were talk ing about. Lord Althorp took the opportunity of abolishing the allowance system, and of depriving the magistrates of the power of giving out door relief, of stealiebing the power of vestri. a, and the law of settlement. The commissioners, in following out these mandates, had a peculiarly difficult and arduous duty to perform. One person eve that they should have no poor at all ; that they should give them money at their own homes; while another sail that in order 'that they should have no paupers they should send all pour persons to the workhouse, and the poor themselves spoke !with the greatest indignation of the muner in which the poor-law was administered. They said that there was no hope for them unless they went into the workhouse, or unless they got married young, and had a number of chil dren. Aceoreing to the hon. member for Finsbury, none but those leading an idle and vsgabond life were entitled to relief. When Lord Althorp introduced his hill, he found the poor in a most demoralised condition; and it was for the purpose of removing the abuses that existed that he brought in his bill. The dispute between the com missioners and their secretary was, that the latter wished to act too rigidly in conformance with the act, and that the former were not inclined to do no. He only •wished to state facts, and he would say that Lord Althorp appointed these men, because he believed that they would act prudently, and would be careful in the administration of the delicate duties which devolved on them. Ms. Chadwick • differed in opinion with Mr. Lewis, Mr. Lefever, and Mr. Ifilitol; and he differed, as well, with the commisaioners who preeaded them. The commissioners thought that, in ' Minletase• with the act of parliament, it was not necessary 1 to hoe him at their board, and they took the highest legal I =laon the subject, and they found that they were right. ma Ike dilreresee between them. They did net in the I AMIN dopes dlepeeese his abilities, but they thought that be wee peseemed er Witty little judgment. He was hound I also to my that no proof was established of the proceeding, 4 of the oommiteleders being irregular, and that they had no object in view hat the public convenience. He did not hear any champ made against the commissioners, but that 1 they had not implied with the act, and that charge he con tended was not established in that house. Their prneedinas were laid before the highest legal authorities in tee country, and were sanctioned by them. He had that fact from Mr. Lefever himself, a more enlightened and able man than whom could not be found, with the further information that the commissioners got through the businesses favourab' to a the public as they possibly could, and not in the ssasFitot deg ne wishing to save themselves trouble. (11tor.) Yr. Lvfevre said that the commissioners never acted contrary the provisions of the act ; and if they did, he was as lamb responsible as any of them. Tho two enemies whom the oomusissionms had to contend with, were those who disliked I the rigour of the law itself, and those who deprecated the mode in which it was administered. He hoped that it would go forth to the world that, with regard to all these disgraceful proceedings, such as gross mesmsnagm meet and inhumanity, there was not one tittle of evident), te prove that they occurred front the fault of the 00•4114- sioners, but from the fault of everybody else but them. It was said that the commissioners got up this inquiry In order to screen themselves. lie should like to know what • they had to screen themselves from? (Hear.) It was in consequence of the guardians not having obeyed the directions of the commissioners, that this matter arose. The . honourable member for Weymouth (Mr. Christie) bnas!ed that he created public feeling against the commissioners by bringing strong cases against them. The honoer able member for Weymouth create a public feeling! Why he waited till the agitation had commenced, and then he took advantage of it. What the holm member caked a case was a false impression. Those who wanted to get rid of the law made attacks against the commissioner ; and those against the law and against the commissioners were enabled to combine together for the purpose of destroying both; and when the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) said that he had no faith in the result of the inquiry made by the Andover union committee, he only said what every right-minded and every well-thinking man would say when he looked szi the persons of whom the committee was composed, and at the mode in which they came to their conclusion. There was never anything known like the manner in which that committee acted. It was a select committee. and what was the drat step that they took ? It was to throw the inquiry open to the press and the public, and to allow garbled and unfinished reports to go forth to the world without allowing a single officill report to he made to the members of that house. A similar attempt had been made in the year 1836, with respect to the peer taw, when Mr. Walter and Mr. Whittle Har ve y, both gentlemen connected with the preen, refined to interfere in any undue or impartial manner, and minted that both the public and the members of parlia: meet should have the rep:arts de die is diem. The members of this committee wet. made aware of what mended in 1636, but yet they would not have any report made to the house, bat allowed reports to go forth to the public. Mr. WAKLBY snide some observation which was not heard in the gallery. Mr. VILLIERS was bound to believe the hon. gentle man, hut he had been told that there was • disinclinaion on the part of the committee to let the house be furnished with the proceedings before them. It had been.the universal practice when the public were let into a committee, that the house should be furnished with an official report; and the consequence of the rule not being complied with in this case had been, that partial reports came before the public, which turned out afterwards to be very incorrect. He WWI rattier surprised that the ruin. member for Weymouth (Mr. Christie) was not in his place, alter the prominent part which he had taken in this matter, and fur which he claimed some credit. Nothing had been so insulting as the manner in which that ham. gentleman conducted himself to them who were his seniors; and if hon. gentlemen referred to the questions which he put to the enteemes, he must indeed have great faith in their indulgence to suppose they would think him entitled to any credit in the matter. He did not erewely asked with triumph last night, why the secretary of e commissioners was not dismissed, alter having been 4e. mi sted b i f a re the amonittee. If he bad been how soon would there ham Men another Andover committee--a So mmer House committee ? They deprived the cow ' w a n t ons of the power as dismiss ing their subordinates by treaties them all es enra' tingle. And here he would say that no blame wee brought home to the commissioners b u t there was another matter— the in.quilryainimiqr*epstiatkonetr in re etee which an sit.. ea di aar y ~Winn was paused by et a 9 committee on the pro pose On of the hon. member for Bh.fewebure but if that he:member had given his attention to the subject for a moment. he would have aeon that he was not justified in naming such a resolution, but he was 'otherwise engaged duriog that year, and had but little time matter., Nuw, the report attached no his. we' to the "'sa to attend to such ved before the misdonent—to the central body—but it wee pr. committee that Kr. Parker reported to the central ecn missioners that the Andover VUIOII was gore cm favourably, and that very fact was brought forward in she , 'hags of a be resolution before the committee.; but would the 1. O use lieve that that most important ho t (not en operas 1, when inquiry into the conduct of the commissioners wareme * into, was struck out by • majority of the members of Ob• e° ln • had nattee—(hear, hear)—but a resolution that Mr. Fucker conducted his inquiry with great partiality was virtually a Ir " tied ia the committee? Well, then, he found from the in delnee that this assistant-commissioner had recommend , * ' a ma improper person as master of the Work. here. Mtn rover, the Secretary of State had written Se aadlal letter to the commissioners complaining of this sertantieemmissiouer, and was it not likely they should stings an inquiry into the conduct of such • person ? As tar their not rating their reasons for his dismissal, it was ennugh that they intimated to him that it would be well for him to retire, and he secordbigly did so. He maintained that there was nothing in the ciuduet of the esesungioner. to Mr. Parker which was contrary to the statute. He thought the central commission had generally answered its purpose, and that it was moist desirable there amid he a commissioner to represent the bed/ in that hare. He stated from his rimed obeervatier and also from his having been cm a com mittee which had be en: sitting fur 3 months on the subject, sad before whom wanes..re of all kinds had been examined, that the country was well sati-tied with the central cionmiie sion, and would be merry to see it done away with. Not one witness on the committee to which he referred had *aid a word against the commissioners, they had only complained I of the use made of the poor law at the elections, nod the in to rference of the house with it just before the general election in 1841, when the amistant commissioners were reduced from eighteen to nine. The measure before the house was not proposed, because of any inhumane or corrupt conduct on the part of the commissioner., who had not done anything that merit not have been done by any other DWI. mimioner. The adminigration of the poulaw had been ui greet utility, and the usefulness of it was, in a great mu sure, owing to the regulatiorui which the commiegoaers hod Ara time to time made; he was alas satiefied that the bear tits of the law would be greatly increased and extended by the bill before the house. (Hear ) Lord J. MANNERS agreed in the observation of the hon. member for Somersetehire, that if the ilehie e had been seemed to the subject before the house, it might have ended in a few hours ; but, if the debate hid been so restricted, he must say, that the arguments in favour of the bill mug be returned as none. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the sub ject of the poor-laws geuerally, his own opinion remained unchanged. He did not think that they afforded that fair there of relief which the industry of the pour entitled them to ; he thought the sr of the unions was too large ; that the medical treatment of the poor was not what it ought to be, that adequate religious instruction was not &Warded to them; and that the difference in the treatment of thole who were imprisoned in their gaols, and those who were obliged to go int the workhouse was a disgrace to a christien country. (Hear.) He thought that the clergy ought to be made ex officio guardians. With regard to the conduct of the Poo law Commissioners, of whom the bon. gentleman who spoke last was so warm au advocate, he thought that if they had ;need correctly, if they boil violeted no law, if they had reed up to the letter and spirit of the law under which they had been appointed, if they had done ample jus ' tine to the subordinates whom they dismimed, the English people must be the most unjust, and the House of Commons the most unfair legislative body the world ever saw. (Hear, hear.) Tee hon. goutleman was indignant at the conduct of the Andover committee, and said that the witnesses were so worried by the hon. memo: r for Wey mouth, that they did not know what they were about; as if any one would believe that Mr. Cornwall Lewis was inca pable of answering the quessions that were put to him, and was ' so baited that he said some things which he did not mean to say, and meant to say other things which he did not sae. Then Mr. Chadwick hai been represented as an errs in hrebti—as a kind of Sir on—that he began by deceiving the former commission, and was retained in office not because the commissioners had the slightest confidence in him, but tecause if he was dismissed he would have demanded an in quiry; and these commissioners knew they could not stand an inquiry. But the main charge against the Andover committee wss that they al lowt d the evidence to be print, d, which the hon. meatleman said was at variance with practice, and liable to relay olijections. What, then, would the hon. gentleman my of the reports of the navigation committee, which were osported every day of which committee the hon. gentleman wet • member. the hon. gentl• man said that the commie hal met with undeserved censure, in consequence of Lag supposed so sanction the attunes which were per petrated in the Andover Union. It was quite true that the commissioners were unpopular, bat at was not true that the An lover committee had said anything (nor had he ever heard that any person made such a charge) to countenance the opinion that the Poor Law Commis sioners had introduced, tolerated, or sanctioned the abuses committed in that Union. (Hear, hear). Then the hon. gen tleman said that there was alwu a a wish on the part of the people to abuse the rich. He would give the hon. gentleman credit for consistency if he prevented others from abusing the rich, and call rag them the oppressors of the poor, when he was engaged in the unscrupulous agitation for the abulition of the Corn Leers. (Hear, hear). Ilut the hon. gentleman used the most severe language in speaking of his hon. friend the member for Weymouth, whom he (Lord J. Manners) congratulated for having at tracted public attention to the street injustice and wrong per petrated by those in high authority ; and if the Andover committee had been productive of no other fruit than that of placing the conduct of the commietionete towards Mr. Day and Mr. Parker in its proper light, he thought his hon. friend had reason to be proud. The hon. gentleman said that the central authority had been attacked as it was because it was not allied to any great party in the state, and that he would support the hill because that authority would now he invested with the dignity and support of a great party in the state. He (Lord J. Manners) thought visa this very rear son must influence 01l those who wished to see justice done to the poor, and to see thatthose who were antedated with—he would not say an illegal, but an ex-legal authority, were properly looked after, to vote against the measure. (Hear, hear.) It was true that in future they could not be so sue usefully attacked, and he had no doubt this was the reason for submitting the measure for the approval of the House of Commons. If he thought the mere addition of three, four, or flee members to the commission would have • more humanising influence, and create greater con cern for the poor, be would support the bill, but be did not think that it would have that effect. He knew that the right hon. gentleman, th- Chancel or of the Exchequer, was willing to undertake almost any amount of work(laughter)—but he doubted whether even his great capacity would enahle him to attend satisfactorily to the working of the new proles.. The president of the board would, in point of fact, have the direction of the whole proceedings, and his decisions would be altogether binding cot the other membors. He should vote against the hill, be cause be did not believe it could effect any real immovement in the present 9 YOSOL Sir J. GRAHAM said, I had hoped that I Mould never again trespass ea she attention of the house ie • debate on the poor-law ; big, eciasidering the part which I took in the paging of the Pour-law Amendment Act; coasidering the oblo uy which I have incurred in my attempts to administer the law ; considering that an official bias may be supposed to have operated in my mind in my defences of the system o• former occasions ; and, lastly, confideriag that the inde pendent position which I now occupy, enables me calealy, dispassionately, and deliberately, to review the policy and working of the measure, the house will not, I thtak, be eurpristed if I address them-eery shirty on the subject tinder discussion. I do not see the hon. member Ihr Fins bury. in his place, but I feel great pram» in ex pressaag my crooners in one sentiment which he ken uttered, namely that it is the fleet duty of property in this country to maintain the poor, and that, inasmuch as the poor are not represented in this hoes e it is one of the most important, and one of the most binding.duties of the roper aentatives of the people, to take car • that ao policy shall be maintained which is inconsistent with their interests and their happinea, rightly ondentood. (Hear, hear.) It is upon those grounds that I distinctly avow myself unchanged in my opinion that the Poor. law Amendment Am is sound in principle, and, in the main, conducive to the interests and the happier of the industrious poor, r mantra-distinguished from the idle aid the diatilute. (Hear, hear.) Now before I consent to • great change is the system—and what we are to-night debating i* a change—l think it immanent to cola eidet what were the principal objects of the act of 1831. will shortly allude to them. It hr been said, in the course of this debate, that that measureis a signal failure. I join issue upon that statement. (Rear ' hear.) I deny that the measure is a failure; I assert that the objects cootemplated by the framers of that enattafint have been secomplabed. (Cheers.) First Mall I say it was the deliberate intention of those who proposed the bill that onion administration of relief should be substituted for parochial. Throughout England and Wales, that system, with hardly an exceptiou, may now be said to best eablished. What was the second object ? Whereas the great principle of the Act of Elisabeth was to supply a test of destitution, and who rem the effect of introducing a new and false principle in the year 1196, wee to throw ablebodied perilous who grad not find work for themeelves, or were unwilling to work, marbly upon the parish for their support, one *fret of the art of 1831 was to alkablish in each union a snokhouse wpm" a b ie k should be prervided for the ableells‘ed pour r a test of destitution. Itt each union of England and Wales, a well regulated, welt-built, and welt ventilated wurkhouse is now provided, and the tan which I have ea Mimed is universtil ap plied. Whit was the next objection? The unpaid Mikan having generally performed their duty a negligent °mot r, it was thought desirable that pa id ,ithm, acting under strict control showkl fies ts M ag — lel kw Unlit Such age* new erkshaitar =II Wales. Than, pia , twsisit tor • the poor, whatever way he wit iwpasidaly the the stolhal relief give new. I wed Oesalleet the raltt tothe poor before the yeer , 1834 —(kmar, hear)—.dad ing my recollection 11 what the raid .then wa s 4 9 71 y knowledge of whet it hal been frost the paring of the moll ir cl 2 the new to law to mo. .ausesuy eua thepreenntdenr, boldly ai esiertthat an * ma old one, than la this pa:dealer Reference has been made by the noble lord *SOW down, to the committee which inveetigatad a = se I believe I am justified in stating that that relent impugning the conduct of the authMitlistffidi to medical relief. (Hear, hear.) There woe, Ilatiow, complaint with respect toe vicious aystem of pigment w has sprung up since the passing of tire act, thane/putting the officio of medical att-udant to auct.on, and giving tt to. the lowest bidder—(hear, hear)—add I believe that In every ease the inadequacy of the remmkoratios given to a medical officer has been distinctly Inmate to the thrill. ' nee of the board of guardians, and that the counteraction of that almost always proceeded from the central authority, which was desirous of enforciag iiimeased payment (Hear, tear.) Then, again, there yeas hardly any provision anis under the old system for the education of the children Girths poor. Under an sirrangeme'it sanctioned by this home list year, provision was made for the education of children* workhouses by means of masters and mistresses, selectedlayl the committee of conned on education from normal schools in which the best Clara of teachers are trained, and a supe. rior education to that of the ordinary schools of this country is now given in the workhouse (Hear./ Again, under the old system, a single day was devoted by the magistrates in petty sessions to the auditing of parish *counts, the thing being done more es • matter of form than of substances' and under this imperfect arrangement, the grossest frande,l on the part of parish officers, often pined unnoticed. In lieu of that, there is now established throughout England and Wales • p-rfert system of auditing under proper uffitil; s trimly watched by central authority. (Hi*, hear.) In - vs thus just run over some of the heads of improvement lch occur to me at the present moment. I cannot help irk iof the extirpation of the allowance system. I agree with [he noble lord at the head of the government, • that t 'vat system wasfatal to the independence of the of this country. It was a premium upon the wee t lax morals—the most idle conduct—on the part of th le abouring poor; it degraded the bunsat, the in dustries., and the independent it offered a premium to the we • woo kman at the expense of the skilful and the well. condineed ; • ' t was vicious at the very core; and it was of cc to the people of this country :hat it should v h : 4 ,,r o rr a hed n . That system is eradicated. (Hear, hear.) Now the h"'" member fur Finsbury, in objecting to this measure, feared that the house wou ld be degraded said he into a sort of pan.' ih vestry or board of guardians by engag ing in perpetual discussions on minute details. He said it would infallibly t naue that the house would be occupied vie s touching the workhouse soup, the day by day with vie , quantity and quality of the gruel given to the pour, the milk and water, the lot ad and Meese, and other details, which, althougheseentiel to th e comforts of the poor, cannot but be advantageously discuss. lln this hsuse. New, if the ques Lion were whether the is a right place to discuss matters of that description, I should agree with the hon. member for a measure which, for the Fairbury d-preeating first time, introduced en eh questions—(hear, hear, and laughter)—hut during i.ur long experience of the net of 1834 we have 1 'ad .7.;:h tb erili e: ohta il enu e ott. e* tori r n ie ent e toyee s rced,b. e yo rei i ; gh ho have misrepresented facts. upon us frequently by those w and who have sought to obtain minepessentations. (Cheers.) es ten und• r the most disadvants to the absence of those who were immediately responsible. An illustration of the disadvantage of this was afforded, when the right hon. gentleman, the Se creury , of State for the Home Department, in reply to • que in.ifa.dovtetnewn.tly used the words " the dismissal of Mr. re*" 'rheum in • l a :nt thufatMr. parliament, Mot pseud and technical sense, I on account of his diemissed. In h co e nise w q a u s en n ee ., of di .misbet an the number of commissioners w as reduced from 10 to 9, and it was thought exped. should retire; conduct. Mr. ?ERRAND —You yourself used the word " Sir J. ORAHAM—That only affords an, alrer proof that the secretory of state, receiving his informed.) h s'oeurd-hand, is not the proper person to give explanation. (Leer, heat) I have no wish lor concealment with respect to the present state of this questii.o. (Hear.) I say it is natural that the house should . desire to see officers intrusted with powers of this nature rentiered properly respensihle. Now the noble lord (Lord J. leamell) has candidly told us that at the time when the matterwas discussed in Earl Grey's ministry, Lord Altborp was- of opinlin that it would be better to vest the responsibility hi an officer who would be immediately responsible to the house, and I think that that was the right view. (Hear, hear.) I should observe that the hon. member for Finsbury stated to-night that he had no objections to boards of guardian. Wiihont referring to the debate to which the bon. member for Wolverhampton has alluded, my memory convinces me that the member for Finsbury has changed his opinion within a very short space of time upon a very important topic. Until to-night, 1 have always heard him say that local autho- rities wi re not to he trusted—that they had too deep an interest in cutting down relief to the poor and that consequently the supervision of • central authority was salutary in the highest degree. And this brings me to in quire, fleet, is such a rested authority necessary ? and, se condly, if it is necs eery, has this particular central authority been imperfect, and does the present measure supply a remedy for ha imperfections? (Hear.) I have already pointed cut the particulars in which • csntral authority appears to me to be advantageous. But then, the marber for Fins bury argues that under this particular authority relief of the poor in this country has been confined to relief in what he designstes " gaols." Now, what is the fact ? So far from the people of England being unfairly relieved within the walls of a workhouse, I can state to the house as a fact, that for the last three years, whilst 15 per cent. only of the poor receiving relief have been relieved in workbousea, 8.5 per cent. have been relieved out of doors. (clear, hear.) On the average, I find that the number receiving relief in workhouses is not in a year more than 185,000, whilst the number of poor relieved nut of doors exceeds one million manually. (Hear, hear.) Talk of the hardships received by the poor of the country! why, I venture to say that never was accusation so unfounded brought by an English. man against ihe nation which gave him birth! In the whole civilised world, I defy you to point out such an effort made by a christian people in support of the first public virtue of charity, as is made by the people of this country to provide for a public fund for the adequate relief of the poor! Look at the cost of maintena' r. ! The expenditure since 1834 has been equal to 5.000,0001. per annum, by means of which no lees than 2,000,000 people, or one-eighth of the whole population of the kingdom, annually receive relief! Just contemplate this sum of 5,000,0001.! It is as much as is provided by the country annually for the naval defence of the empire ! It is as much as is raised annually by a tax upon all the property and income of the nation! Surely I am justified in saying that no example can be produced of an effort so humane, so effectual, of relief given so unsparingly ; and yet, at the same time with so little hit is degrading to the recipients, —as the relief afforded under this law. (Hear, hear.) And here, let me remark, how conflicting are the temaeatilma against the I , w and the central authority which it has cola stitated. These accusations are so conflicting that they absolutely disprove each other. Sum, times it is said the law is toe severe—at other times it is urged that it is too lax. Sometimes a member tells us we have too many commission. is—at other times we beer dna we have too few. At one moment it is urged that the Jetties of the controlling authority are too stringent and too peremp tory—atanother time that they are too prolix and too argu mentative. In short, the moat conflicting accusations are presented. Then it is said the central authority affords, after all, but an ineffectual control. Now 1 speak in the re mote of the members who have been associated with mo upstairs in the committee upon that very im branch of this subject—the matter of settlement. We have had brought before the committee the meat intelligent witsemes frona all pros of England —men selected by the numbers of the committee for their knowledge and preetioal information. Now, whatever may be the difiwomess et opinion in the committee upon other poindi, I am added et this, that the united opinion of the isnabees 1y that of all the witnesses examined before us, the mem are four gentlemen a ho are assistant poorslaw and whom names I mention to the house they are Mr. Tuinell, Mr. Oulitone, Mr. Pigut, and Mr. lien. (Cheers.) 1 defy any committee investigating • difficult and complex subj. ct to receive more assistance —more infor mation —than the law of settlement committee has received from the four gentlemen I have named. 'Chen with respect to the commisattners ,s—what are the facts ? When I succeeded to of in 1841 I found one single comusioioner transacting the business of the corn minion. I am free to confess that I thought that coma lotion had sustained a serious lose from an alteration which had occurred in it+ dunposition just pees vious to my taking office. I thought there was reason to regret that Sir Fr .nkland Lewis had resigned his office. I thought that his plate an hut Mach quately tilled by his son who succeeded him, and, in )our presence, sir, I will not say how much I felt the public service had lost by the removal of Mr. Lefevre from his post, fer, indeed, I looked around me in vain for any one competent adequately to supply his place. (General cheeribg.) With respect to 8q t rankland L-wis, lain free to state that I thought his secession bad for himself and still worse for his son. I had known Sir Frankland —I did not know Mr. Lewis. I knew awning of what might he his capabilities. Upon the whole, I thought it butt r to form my judgment of him cautiously— not to court his acquaintance, but to communicate with him officielly, and draw my opinion of him by watching his performance of his public duties rather than by forming a personal intimacy. (Hear, hear.) So matters went on fur three months. My prepoloeseiens of Mr. Lewis were not favourable, but it would be as injustice to him it I did not say that in all my experience of public permits, 1 never saw public business Detracts d with greater punctuality, witn more fidelity, or more discretion than it was transacted by that gentleman during the dif ficult per 1842. Forming that pinion of Mr. Lewis from his public services I relates(' iu the oppor twines afforded use of lormiug his personal acquaintance. Our official intercourse was combined with private friendship. I acted with Mr. L- suds for flee yearn Every year confirmed my opini- n of his high honour and his c , mplete trustworthi nem, and there are no contuderatious which would not make me ready to deltoid him on every occasion that I might be called on so ta do—there ate ao outoideratious which would not make me feel proof at all limn of his intimate friend ship and acquaintance (faint erica of hear, hear.) It is un worthy in an assembly lake this to pick small holes—to dwell upon petty errors of judgment. The ablest men mast sometimes err. I; in better, Milted, that there should be 1 gemerlings erne, that that there should be at an a &Milk.. Evart' thing human is liahle to imp: and smut dsaWoa most occasionally lead te error. no daubs emirs bus bees committ e d by the.coremissi • s era ; of them wills my participation. The are of Mr. Perier a n d the Andover %quay been cited as one error ... read the evidence taken upon that inquiry, my inf with respect to that inquiry was derived, like that not honourable mambo r opposite, from what I read upon te i subject in the ordinary charnels of information. It w ee. . opine ri from what I saw there, that the ingrain ...4 contacted in a manner which svaci conducive to the p u bi s good. I immediately said to the comininweer, " Clow this inquiry—bring it to a conelini , n,—and when it is cl e w then will be the time to consider the merit. or ,t m er i ts — a the party by whom it has been conducted." When the irs quirt' was closed it was thought righi to dism n Me. Par., and in the grounds for his diminel I (*dein', c Now, with respect to the composition of the newel's.. Most honourably to themselves the government of 1 4 ,4 Melbourne, when on the eve of rosiination, refreind fien filling up the vacancy which Mr. L "ewes rvage s ij o i occasioned. When I succeeded tooth. I found 'ld Renee., merit vacant. I thought it a point of honour that the ghee should be given to the man 1 c , nsidned the fittest. 'W. did I select ? A mar I never had seen, sod searci e heard oe. Looking it the ri porta of the assise e i eommissionere, I arrived at the conclusien that gi Edmund Head on this enistant commission beet titled to receive the reward of public service Hr was, believe, opposed in politico to the government with whiee was then acting, but that comet, ration did not weieli me, and again I say that my ffieial and private intercourse convinces me that Sir Edmund Heed was eminently worthy the post for which I selected him. So much then fey the pea composition of the commission. But on hon. memlw r baster there was a blot upon it from the first moment of rev taking office. So there was, and, I believe, that the appiintermr Sir Edmund Head was the envie. The secretar, to the ore. mission, Mr. Chadwick, was dinatisfied at nnt p t' eppeintinent for himself, and from that hour he bas never worked well with the comminioeers. The hon. member ke Dorserhire man that Mr. Chsdwirk was aexious to ace t h e board dissolved. Fortunately, or unfortnnewly, foe x t Chadwick, it will not lie long before he has Ole wish; for by referring to the tenth clause of the bill, you will find (and they are words which no doubt will died great comfort to Mr. Chadwick) that upon the inninter this act, the secretary and all the officers of the coroutielon tease to hold their places. I will now notice one o r t o , e points which have been urged as objectins to the hill bare us. First, as to nlaosmen site ing in this hOsir. 1 am not one of those who think that this haus ought not to look with a jealous eye at lay creation of places for members of the legislature. Bat I cannot but repeat, what has been welt ntwerved, that greet reductions have recently taken place in the numbe r o f pee . tlemen in this house holding places under government Within the last few years six places held by members of parliament have been abolished, and oely one—thee of commissioners of railways—has been crated. (Ilese hear.) I consider it absolutely necessary that the pow, ra of the commissioners should not he diminished, and more especi a ll y o with referehee to the delegated power of making meg rules—a delegation which Ido not think could be disree.a with--subjeet, of course, to a prompt statement of the rele issued to the house, and to the direct responsibility of the commiedonere. I regard the measure of the government r most judiciously and effectually removing the great ellitn tion which had hitherto existed to the commission, in rein to government a more direct control over the comminiceen. , I do not think it necessary to go into detsile, but shall net. tent myself with this brief outline of the principle on which I shall give my cordial support to the government mestere. The hotter then divided, the n um b ers were— _ For the motion For the amendment The bill HES then mid a ',amid tone RAILWAYS (IRELAND) BILL. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Excireormt, the second reading of this bill was postponed until the 7th June. dEDUCTION AND PROSTITUTION SUPPRESSION BILL. On the order of the day for the adjourned debate ou tle first neadin s of this bill, Col. SIBTHOR! suggested to the hon. member filth. nth:wk . the propriety of postponing the bill—he would Ili say for eta months, but for two months. Mr. SPOONER hoped, as it was only the firet readier, that stagewould be allowed to he taken: he would then Ht the second reeding for Wednesday, the 9th of Jane . Lord J. RIIMELL saapeated that the trijourned debits on the tnt marling should be postposed till Werhuelay. the 2nd of June, and that the second reading should be takes OR the 9th. Alter • short eonversation, in ate mune of which SZr Game stated that shanid a divi.ion take place he wiled tab M the first reading, the gallery •rali cleared for • rbvinot, bat nose took place, dui bill being read a hut time by comment. I DiNiiiirD PROPERTY IMPROTEMIDTT (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. S. CRAWFORD, en the part of t►e hon. amebae for Limerick, mo►ed that lilbe order fbr committing tittle be read, and the bin withdrawn. POOR REMOVAL ACT. Mr. G. BANKED hoped he should h .re ra opportmity of bringing tbi• bill on for disooscion, which oohed broaght forward in obedience to the r►onmmendatinn eseommitiae ----- of the house, early after the holidays He wenld fix it file Thursday, the Seat of J ane. Alter • conversation, it was arranged that the seconft reading should come on on Wednesday, Pets June. PASSENGERS ACT AMEND WENT BULL. On the bringing up of the report of tha-bill, Lord O. BENTINCK moved the following clause: "That to remove doubts as to the seawoeshiness of any saael abash to proceed with passengers es affiresaid, the acting govern ment emigration officer shall eauee such slap to be purveyed by two duly authorised sad responsible surveyor., and if it shall be reported by those pence* that such ship is not is their opinion in such a state of repair and efficiency is would entitle such skin or WIWI to be closed in Lloyd'e Registry M British and Voreign Shipping, itl, such ship or waged shell not be cleared out. The object of the claw was that the Irish emirrten should go abroad in ships as sea worthy no those in which dry goods were shipped, and as geed as those in Ishioli om elet/ Were conveyed. He bed in his possmion informatka which showed that between Match 25 of last year and ha. 30 of the present year. out of 2.5 emigrant ships only four were in a condition fit to take oat goods of a perishable nature, and the rest were wholly unfit to carry out tad t7ants, except to take them to a watery grave. With this view he moved the adoption of the clause. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he concurred with the views of the noble lord (0. Ben tinck) on this subject, but he wished that time should be given the government to consider the best way in which it should be carried out. Mr. THORN ELY thought that there was not the plighted neesamity for this clause, as sufficient accommodation wen afforded to passengers under the acts already owed. Aster a few words from Mr. LIDAELL and Sir H. INCA" Lord G. BENTINCK, in the belie( that the promise d the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be carried nut, with drew his chum. Sir O. CLERK also withdrew a clause upon a similar or demanding, and the report was then received. The house adjourned at half-past one o'clock. Vie erprtfill. MAILS. • The overland <dosed mails rim Mewl la, to the Mediterruela r=ighMae 241 k aeh, Sdryba, NW* beg Kew, ice., will be rude up cc ti. • Thai ere ell" Lisboa, Madeira, Cadiz, sad Gonne. arm o as ea Mis at the 2701 May. The arils die New rem Ma, it Dream% L. led 7.4ehalwlll Is maim apes th e swig et Ur Stet lap Tie Visa Lea walk lambkins time twits:ism, Eisidersh be Hawbarsh. tat he mar op ca to lawandolthe lad Jess Ilse make be Mae Meth Barstsda, rd the Ullele Mates, will be asaa op ea the swan mi tes ad Jose The wedged wail* Wearer, MAN Omer, to Nabs Week pl,Ades,Osyles, Idles, Rees Nom sad Pita. aim StAlthelifirne wkli be mar up data, The or the led Moe. The vises Me b Nea.ly the ilea Plata Mane {'idea hr' =leterldlaa iik je. aod mance Ayres, will be made ap 08 dl MOE WATER. AT LONDON-BRIDES Tau I:4l—lignise, 23 Ws. put 7; After6oo6. WO. r_tt. 1. TaJlesaow—Namakst. 23 mgA. p•K 6 ; Andrew% I LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 22. We are equally surprised and sorry to learn that the baths and wash-houses in Glasehouselard are danger of being closed for want of funds. With the interest that has recently been awakened in sanitary matters, this result may well astonish us, as we hOlto it will surprise our readers. But it must not he foe , gotten that, after all, the struggle against filth is a prosaic one. It wants the elements of a poptlig. charity. There is no missionary staff, with Marti* experiences of dangers overcome, and marvelloss. conversions. There is no convert to parade; 90 "dreadful example" to hold up from the phallist The passion of sectarianism is wanting; the stinease of rival sects; the spur of antagonistic rated% • Charities like the baths and wash-houses. 104 trust to the benevolence which is busy withost the excitement of public meetings; to the right ho ds which give without the knowledge of their Is& 'I hat there is abundance of this real benevolence London we have no doubt. We cannot but satiei pate, when the case of the Gloss-house-yard establish ment is preesed upon it, that subscriptions AU forthcoming to keep the baths and wash-honor Z. during the summer, that part of the year when are of peculiar service to the poor. • The establishment has been at pork for nearly Bee - of Water years. It was the first which offered the boon and washing apparatus to the poor, at a price within* reach of the humblest. During the first year, sobs' with May, 1846, 67,664 washers, bathers, and irm l " were accommodated at an average of leis than a head for the bathers and washers, and a alei for the ironers. Duriug the eleven months of *I current year the numbers acco mmodated ham 4 1P seeded 70,00 0 ; while the expenses of WWI 1."..., . , THE EXPRESS, $4 , lIR s :r .-lEVENIN'G, MAY 22. 1847. . • - . ANikihow..o....a., , • inquire ilea the privies 'Sibs of sone7glt7 1 : 11' ' t .'' '''%' • Or4d e =e Bl-174 4 . r — of gpenderalll what had fermerly bed • ' ' _ • ,. , Tirs • , wk .. ~,, , . . of poor•low . Mailigailllllll, sod the •••• ••••.! . - •' w•• • • '".' rp ca the sa 4 . constanslp. bedew cleared, fit .comarquesce .... 1 .,t'1,,,. '', ,IS - 4 , lon. he!puti tlie pron•ut of +. Ovations whichi.lis psi_ . ,Beir then could they mat s- ..., 411 ft,.( 1 § 1, 0. and );. thr iridium brouirlit lettt in eat Inquiry, when every thing , r.. , 'y ha secretuy, wae tathe effect— vs done to temfrthe witermea and make them appear that he bad referral • e nrevious communination to the poor- ridiculous ? Many persons alleteined from coming . forward law erausieetoners, and that It did not appear to the secretary to give aviaries, because theydtesded the manner in which of elide that he could interfere in the matter. Such being they were to be trotted. The hon. member for Shrewsbury .. , . - ~ - • —. . _....._, —:.“, ...;......t. teyt ninht. why the seeeetary of the