The Express. — London, England, 1851-06-18 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. IiOUSE OF LORDS.—Tassimv, Jvs 17. The Loan CUANCRLI.OII took Ida mat at O. o'clock. PETITIONS PRESENTED. Navtoamon Laws —By the Berl of LONSDALE, from Whitrhaven, and Lord STANLEY, from Liverpool, complaining of the repast of the airtleatios laws. INCUNBERED ESTATES (IRELAND). The Earl of OLENOALL swetaht returns re bate( to Ow werkhwt o f the haramimmed Estates Commis aka la bobsal. _and la to big wunewatoi of certain Mum soli had tom pit Ows of asses Ift pillows hod barna lam ant of tank twea. Tbs sable sail thsw swat Ws • lag slabmwato lb. esswitaf Ishitb bs samallshood of tits mattes ar ths asset la Isattlai to fayssllliwa, to the dissduatap sedate whose estates were lee Min The LORD CHANCELLOR dehmisil the practice of the Court of Ineumbered Estates, whisk was in mos I amass@ with the practice of saw Norte is tie Visited intakes In the Comet of Chissely it yea the cat- 1 Mau practice to give shod ewer peeephomee, and every Mead lath causes in the order which to the court seemed Se The Reel of GLENGALL explained. The motion was then agreed to. NAVIGATION LAWS. Lord STANLEY, an presenting the petition from 1 Liverpool, raid he was 111111b0111 to give to her Majesty's ' meat an opportunity, upon a question of great ' , of explaining to the house the course they had taken, and intended to take, upon mat ters ea which they had asked parliament for, and pawned at their request had entrusted them via, Wye discretionary power. The petition he held in Rh toed mast technically be taken to he the petition of • :121;individuii, es it was signed by Robert Rankin, e ' lan of the Liverpool Shipowners Association. It mat be taken so representing the deliberate opinion of the shipowners of the port of Liverpool, and it entered with more than usual formality into the subject. It did not emanate from a body tneetiug for the purpose, but it was banded oa the report of a committee appointed to inquire Into the writ+ of the case. The petitioners stated that they were the owners of a large amount of British ship ping, end that in common with other shipowners they were at, present greatly suffering from the act for repealing the navigation laws passed in 1419. They stated that all the apprehensions which they had entertained with regard to the injury which would he done to their interests—and wken speaking of their interests he begged also to include the interest. of the eountryat large—they said that all the iinesions consequences which had been foretold had been mere than realised. He slid not contend, nor did the peti tioners, that upon the whole the foreign trade of this oorntry had been reduced, nr that the foreign trade bad not been increased sinev the posing of that act, butthey coin vistaed that the amount of freight bad been so reduced, and that the re bad nut been fair and equal competition, but that there bad been a competition in which they billowed under great disadvantages, end that the freight was so 'Agee& especielly on long voyages, as to be almost wiremenerative. Although there had been an increase, the advantage hod been derived, not by the British shippers principally, but by for, ign shippers trailin , „: to this country. The law CAW' i-ito op 'ration on the le, January ISIO, and he held in his hand—taken from the papers furnished by her IrajeetJ'e goeernment—a return of yeseels entered into and etemeM out of British pens since that period. Ile WWI quite aware that these table: did not represent with perfect acce ssory the amount of the tonnage inward or outward, because be was aware that there were great fallacies in the returns made &Awe the act, inasmuch as on a single voyage of each vessel the separate tonnage had been calculated but fir the purpose of compering one period with another, the fal lacies being equal, the statement furnished was sufficiently asearate to get some idea of the matter to which he was going to call attention. The noble lord then read the fol lowing table : TO PM.. 1444. ISIS. lASI. logreme. TOY Imatir 1,17Y,4b1 .....4.421411111...-11,111,414 41427 Of which Valtal Demos. 4,020,113 4,111.121.—...4 .•,7 3 .914 31 IN I lamest 1 . 4 0 4411 1, ..... 1,330,001 1,1111.11311......1,1103,132 131,3311 Biala . ... 14,112. 17,111 23,717 CIAAMIII7SOTWARS% 1eet044.. 3,031,11/..-1,411,108 _. 4201.971 477,070 - KI;;;;II --- TI- I.lf — mbler •• United " ••-• • • • • Kingdm Vary's .1,944,211 ....574/,$ Ofaile tw 1111111=11.--TPWAU4 femme. Teta' to4o4te 1,11.091....;109.1 1,190,247 214714 tsi 410.212 U• 114111 ,ftvo l 3 9.4.74.._„.1.625,291 79,021 11•2444 94,147 eta IMMO OCTWANDS. Inerere. 70411 0961 p, 1,724,574 1,724, 412....-1.911,453 216,131 M OINE • .61°6 v 6 i l " 1,211,791 1,121,1721..-1,3 - 9,231 Mole& 312,710 .... 46%421 301, 1 ,9 _A32,7711 Slogs . 4,796.... 6,7111 It waddle seen that as to 1819 and 1841, for the first four otailia of two successive years, although there had been an larrease in the amount of our foreign trade, it had aid gone prhseipally to the British ahipuwoer, but had been almost entirely absoeheel by the foreign powers, who were threatenitig us with their rivalry end the supremacy of the am. The petitioners complained of the stamps on marine amairamtes ; and he slid rot know what waa the amount, but there was so tax which it would be more nitre eat to defend on principle. The practical operation of keeping up the stamp duty on marine assurances was such that • large amount of insurances were now being with drawn Irons British insurance offices and token to ofilees on the continent—a thing that no merchant would have thought of doing live or six years ago, but which they were saw obliged to do to save the duty. The petitioners made another complaint—namely, of the extravagant fees charged 17 British consuls in foreign ports. Next, they cam grained id • practice which they said they believed to be peculiar to this country, and somewhat of a hardship, that the officers ul the navy should, as they had hitherto, receive pecuniary reward far salvage of merchant vessels. They Jae complaiiivil of the encouragement given by law to the desertion of seamen from the mercantile navy, with • view to enter her Majesty's service. They next stated that they were compelled to navigate their weasels with British inninen. Ile thought that was a wise provi sion which compelled the owner of • British merchant vorel to man his scowl with • certain number of British seamen; but if they compelled him to navigate his lead with • letter crew. who lived on better food than foreign sailors, and received higher wages, he was entitled to some onisaleration, and it wits nut fair to compel him to aavigate hi, ship with • dear and expensive crew, while the foreigner navigated hie vessel with • cheap and inexpensive crew, and that they should give to both the like advantages. Bet this was not all; British vestal 'Amino' under serious disadvantages. pecuniary and other. VW, in foreign ports—the petitioners referred particularly to Spain, to France. and to the United States of America. Ile thought it must Ire fibvionA that in the direct trade alone, if a vessel coming from one of the ports of those countries to this country was admitted on a footing of perfect equality and might import Ronda from any part of the world, the duties being no higher than upon goods imported in weasels of this country—he thought it was obvious that reciprocal advantages should he enjoyed by British vessels trailing 1 those countries. This, however, was not the case, hr the vessels of this country going with a return cargo to dr peels when those vessels came from found themselves Odor tauisied altogether, or charged with • large dif lbeeatial duty. (Hear, hear.) Ile thought the noble lord 'pima° would sot justify that as fair competition, or say that any mount of skill and capital could countervail such dindwastaiti. (Hear, bear.) He had recently met with a mlintimiportaat statement in • most useful but somewhat Ella& book—lie secant ss Bradshaw's Itailway U aide -- teblelt showed the efeet of the law in its present state. He Tsai at it an advertisement for the steamer sailing be- tween the poets of London and Hamburg, going aa --- "Sunda y morning sad retuning sa Wednesday; and after a well deserved esilogiala on all the merits of this vessel, there was this notice, by way of bushier " Shippers are re spectfully requested to observe that in consequence of this Meamer being under the Belgian flag, a saving of nearly 1.1 per mat. is daty will be effected on all the goodseent by her." (Haar. hear.) He would now take the case of Spasu. lle ludil la his Mad a table of the duties les ied in Spain under the teal of the poor 1849. The noble lord then r' ad the fallowing table: DORM 1.1144464 WIT 113413 vans& Thu T•aor, orl4/. me " . 5t47.11 %Tr 1 „ tuam „, :: :,/ r „ II; : tru1t ,.......:0„ ~,„ • : $ : ::: : --• a-k 1 0 L I . 6. .. 4 ... . : : Li" ..,..................... .. .. .if :1: 'v' l 'p":`,,i,o' tt of n :b. . . in 0 016 3 ,llltto. i1am t .. ...i0r mii ".... . " iiiiii iii" ........ • . I i ti ; I 34 1 3 , 4 ,, r t !ulatalof1011To. Mao . ...... ... ....... I 0 2 4 Mu., Lye .6,iiii _._....„ 0 0 Tll l'elarr464 2! 22115. lb. Mil. OilliO14 1 ." " wake.. . . 011 I 3 4 Ditto. 04344. from 34 . .. 0 3 4 0 4 3 4,334, 003.34. hum Con. .=....... ...... .1 ; 1 010 0 .1`0 . 44133361 0f12141b. Ditto. tr.. 6101 . „ 0441. e. fn.. 3 IIT I Pitt°. 4101.11. AIMIU M.... .... 0I e l'2 11 11 !Dino. DM*. fr om fonts •Si a 1 2 Datk . i Mtn. kola 904•140 ••••• .4 ros In MI• .. —. ..0 2 11 1 011 0 'PRO. Mies. Tres lepridi I Con. . ... 01 0 010 0 'DMA Mlle. tnol6 1 446i6 • 0 311 011 3 • t... - - - la two under our system Spun bad increased =threefold in the amount of the dir et tragic of oh 'tempts to the parts of this country. France also ' 'Sightly adhered to her own restrictive navigation laws: she W not mode a single step in advance, but maintained as = ualy the proviaions of her navigation laws as we did Whilst a French vessel could bring goods ken any part of the world to this country. no British ship IRO per mit tad to take into the ports of France—although Wiese to • differential duty—one single ton of foreign pas unless they were direct from the port of the easantry in which the goods were produced. (Hear, km.) lie believed he might go further, and my teat no foreign vessel was allowed to introduce any &union geode at all now into France. Was that the reciproeity whit* we had • right to coped, and were told by her Ma jesty's government we slimed obtain ? (Hear, hear.) Bat there wee soother country to which the petitioners alluded. It was said that if there was one ioustry 'sore Ilion another from which we ought to obtain tea reciprocity. it was America; and there had been an act passed in the 'lnlaid States by wl :eh full reciprocity was established with awy mew, which admitted thur tr-Le. We had THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAYHAMING, JUNE 18, 1851,, in obtaining Milani Inis el for a netted to seems VA' iward freWea.emil lad large seus of amen Llfirtees had ..... explisneed Mlee. elms was in the sumenx sad eUrgeA a of isse=t bo had leseneedissi to *IA eat la the 're fine pole itt dote* as rate. letwithnindiad ea elient atilhe sable lead, the forpolar sheagaele .f i ttiparllt slip ✓ lin awe wise elf 1) 21 and e• bad Ito gam he had adegartaeweiel. be wee frequently obliged to eagle, the est of their regular tares. (Hew. bun.) Masan dasheat shipowner, whit had bean a of the repeal of the navigatien tent iNl ZZ lPlliall e __to be ruined by that issessarsh W. el be 0.4 .... e. ) was informed, in amed bb Am Ile aped gem 16,000 to 30,000 lb. Wiehissm,_ &Alp builder, who in Ibis before the committee desieeM that if the nevi laws wererepealed he should be ea= t4leaz Et :watry, led established anathar poll ea whine be tree new building a stag et ;,NS NW Wks. hullo Mbar large vessels. With these het Wore Ma be dad al admit that the shipping interest was depressed is enrsponse of the repeal of the navigation laws. AR the avideaire that he had been able to collect weat to wee that the shipping interest generally was far frost lift in that state of depression which the petitioners and aims illeusi. It appeared to him that the real principle area add* leg cation should proceed was to promote the god of lie peat bulk of the community, and not the it • any one class only. (Hear, bear.) And if he had been able to show, as he thought he had, partly by the ellibenesta of the noble lord, ma partly by his own, eat • genhernumberof British ships nine employed, at Oa as • freatter demand for ships, sad that we were seelled to Mew c ate more safely, sane easaosnically, asd Ida pan h than formerly, tat mght to be staging to pee, ones--(hear)—but if he Wed to this at a =rare extending their Wises in all dieslisesh at li the shipwrights were la • alipdarli ss iesepseas eladidion, he thought he was est =swami bete tact that freights were less nor by As allopike the ship owners were in great :distress. Lord HARDWICKE presented Ina various ports, complaining of the repeal of laws, and, after :complimenting Lord Granville s o a nittb i la speech, declared that be had never heard a statement so litue cal culated to restore confidence in a drooping interest. Go vernment would do all it could for the shipowners in the way of negotiation, but it would do nothing else. The noble lord then dwelt at some length on the decay of the shipping interest, maintaining that the proof of prosperity deduced from the increase in our shipping was illusory, since that of other countries had increased in larger pro portion. He contended at much length on the justice and necessity of obtaining reciprocity from other countries, or enacting it on our own parts, and concluded by warning the house against the decline of our maritime force. Earl GREY believed that the shipowners were sufficiently good men of business not to persevere in a losing trade, and therefore saw in the increase of ship-building and employ ment an irrefragible proof that the trade was not in so bad • way as the petition affirmed. We had already obtained reciprocity from several foreign countries, and among others from the United States, though he admitted that the posi- tion and wealth of California gave the Americans many , natural advantages over us in certain directions. As re garded France and Spain, which still retained their differen tial duties, he was convin ced that any attempt to retaliate would inflict an injury on our own trade. There were retali atory clauses appended to the act repealing the navigation laws; and no doubt, if a ease arose, the government would be bound to put those clauses into effect. Those clauses, boasts, bad been introduced with a view to make use of Om emirh when it was found that British ships were sui t/ring Is competition with the shipping of other countries, is consequence of the restrictive regulations of those other countries. There had never been any intention in intro ducing those clauses of exacting reciprocity. The very principle of the act tens this : we made a great concession at once, fully and completely, to all the nations of the world, because we found that that concession would be advantageous to ourselves; and we only reserved to ourselves the power of retracting the concession and inflict ing retaliatory measures in the event of disadvantage arising to our mercantile marine hereafter because of any restric tions which might be imposed or maintained by foreign vestries. The only possible effect of the resort to such weessnres would be to stop the legitimate trade comuletely, and to place the traffic in the bands of smugglers. lie was persuaded that the result at which they all aimed would be best attained by following up that wise policy of liberality which had of late years been adopted in reference to all other commercial matters. That policy had been adopted for our own interests, and irrespective of the conduct of other nations. Until the last eight or nine years the theory of reciprocity bad been firmly believed in. Mr. Ricardo had, in the House of Commons, ex posed the fallacy of that theory ; and although he did not at the moment succeed, he made an impression on the public mind which yearly deepened. The administration of the late Sir Robert Peel perceived this fallacy, and com menced the policy of relaxing our commercial code without reference to the chances of other nations imitating ear example or meeting us on equal terms. The result had been, he (Earl Grey) maintained, beyond measure success ful. For a quarter of a century before, we had been en gaged in endless and fruitless negotiations with foreign countries in the hope of impressing upon them the expe diency of liberality. Since we had taken the wiser and bolder course, our own commerce had made the most ex traordinary and rapid advance which had ever lama re corded of the commerce of this or of any other people, and, more than that, we had the gratification of knowing that foreign nations were beginning to follow us, with slow steps, no doubt, but still surely and certainly. The alterations made of late yearn in the tariffs of foreign countries, though not excessive, were in the right direction, tending to the reduction and removal of all those duties and restric tions which impede and destroy trade. More than this again; it was becoming every day more ev:dent that the nations which refused to follow us would fall far ther and farther behind in the race of the civilised world. Referring to the comparative progress of France and England he would take from the year 1842, when England first decidedly began to relax her protective system, to the year 1849, the last year up to which he had been furnished with any exact return in respect to France. The total tonnage, inwards and outwards, in France in 1812 was 3,217,000. In 1849 it was 3,373,000; showing an increase in those seven years of only 120,000 tons—that was to say, not quite 4 per cent. The total tonnage, as regarded England, iu 1812 was 7,347,000. In 1849 it was 12,620,000 ; being an increase in those seven years of 5,273,000 tons—in other words an increase of 71 per cent. The Earl of HARDWICKE—But we had ns revolution. Earl GREY—No, but 1819 was after the revolution. when commerce and trade, the President's election being over, were reviving ; and, as affected England, 1849 was by no means a favourable year to choose, fur we had scarcely then recovered from the effects of the famine in Ireland, and the commercial confusion consequent upon exerasive speculation in railways. But this, after all, was an isade quate view of the real contrast between the two countries. In England, at present, they saw every description of trade increasing, advancing, and extending: the railway commu nication almost perfect, and entirely the work of private en terprise ; docks and other gigantic public works rising on all sides, and also being created by private ca pital. In France, on the other hand, they saw nothing but stagnation. Her railway communication was advancing slowly to completion • and what little was done was done mainly through the assistance of the state. Her public i works were few ; and these were not carried on in the same way as those of England. In every branch of her trade ea her industry there was the same stagnation. Was this • state of things to which France was - likely long to sub mit? It would not be difficult to detect the causes of this shame of prosperity. It was, he believed, simply because eneg aside in France was exposed to die advantage by the Frame system of restriction. It was not by keeping up any nenietions on our trade that we would induce France to remove those restrictions of which we complained. The wisest policy for us was to wait with patience until we really saw that we were practically suffering from competition with that country, and until we could be convinced that the imposition of restrictions on our part would relieve that suffering. (Hear, hear.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then moved the second reading of the Schools Sites Acts Amendment Act, which having been agreed to, Their lordships adjourned at half-past eight o'clock. Need on this aeseressee oesned be mad not us tied whisk thy, They bad dams bed gives diem soda =aim _ Now, we bad retaised they retabsed their a wing wee the char asks of Fa Ida Piet i• the nines err — a — stilTool dim* the oaten Deluging to that . Tb. Almada NW board WY esseeasearive theft the ; blabs Mit say it seems* sa el a trade, whets they MIT% nog WI • 411 Z:a5 Bolos to New Yeah, bat hen law Tub la (" beer," and • ktiab)—a eke bat as her swathe dlNWeelaff kap the lamokr i A 41 / dila as Ameink dip mead net be hs say mien whisk bythe knelt strata st eke lessgketise, tbey seen prolog to eall their owe. (Hear,He enan we do aft allow the hasselease to Interim with our mating trade km Leith to Lembo, es from Liverpool to Dublin, the/ thought it that eel Ihk to say the rays. from New Teak to Bea Fivasiese—wbfeli may occupy foga or five essatko—is sealed szr e r yea." ('' Hess," eni a laugh.) Th i l d ecii. we AUNrian resemble la registered as vessels, Asserisea built ships, bsu by our merehanta, might be registered as Bee ships. But build vessels at Halifax or Moat:eel, end they kohl set be sold to Amok= leer chants, booms *sir navigation lams gersidbilid th Now, while we bail Oven the United Stabs the boat el ister!esenseenillalleM with all our colonial poesetniene. tlw refused is • negliebetion in the profits &Moil. AIM 111 =auallew York to Ben Prussia & La Arnsiena eke ask New York eall disibm.st ase sieW et an risking, did eel return skeet Cap Bws sea Usk again to New York, but she poloseded to China or the int Indies and thence brought,. amp to England. She loaded again ia this , owl sale a reams voles, to New York--ins labia lksr asilast asialik the feet of which ' being 11110Wi the. ereaskes to per ler asiIISIM and remn perste her owners. Am ok% read of the reciprocity she enjoyed from England, didetsred England from el miler reciprocity, for she obliged our shipowasee to take only two freights, and those tne least remusepatioe, whereas she took three ; and, therefore, we were beeskaly engaged in competition with her. (Hear.) This WY • mm petition in which one party was loaded with berdsosheri was not allowed the same privileges as another partembig ex wily the same voyage. We had now 18 months' experience of tho working of the repeal of the navigation laws, and what steps had her Majesty's government taken during that time to put in force those provisions of the bill ? provisions which it was not understood Auld be allowed to remain • dead letter on the statute I book, to the Jeanne loss and injury of the commercial new rine of this country. (Hear, hear.) He had been told that within the hot three or four days • foreign vessel coming into Liverpool was surprised to find the Cutone-house authorities there demanding 20 per cent. differential duty from her. The name of the vessel was the Harems* ; bat be wild hardly believe the information to be correct, es tbe . set et parliament required that restrictions should be in. weed by an order in council, and that such order shoal hest be laid on the table of the house. Ile, however, had thought it right to call attention to the rumour, reit/sent making any comment upon it, and no doubt her Majesty's government would contradict or explain it in their reply. In conclusion, he had to ask whether the British marine was not placed at an enormous disadvantage by this want et reciprocity ? —how long this state of things was to humans? —and did her Majesty's government intend to impsis seek restrictions as would confer justice, and grant fair munsele tion between the vessels of this country and thoso d ether nations ? (Cheers.) [The noble lord was heard very indistinctly throughout his speech, although he spoke with unusual impetuosity, it being as difficult to hear loud tones in the new House of Lords as the conversation, across the table iu which some of the noble lords indulge.] Earl GRANVILLE, who was very imperfectly heard in the gallery, was understood to say that the result of the pe tition, and of the noble lord's remarks, was this, that the shipowner; of this country could not, without protection, meet the foreigner, and that their difficulties were increased by a want of reciprocity, on the part of foreign powers. Now, when Engles/di repealed her navigation laws two year. ago, her example was followed by several other nations. It became the duty of the government, as soon ne the act was repealed, to communicate with Sweden, Holland, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal and the United States on the subject. Sweden intimated at once that she would remove all restrictions. Holland also met this country in a most liberal spirit, and, in a manner very much to her credit, bad lately communicated the fact that she would admit our vessels to an equal parti cipation with her foreign and colonial trade. If Belgium impewill a duty of 10 per cent., it must be recollected that we had imposed a duty of 20 per cent. on her. France hail, since the time of Louts XIV., protected her mercantile ma rine ; and, though the French government were hampered with duties and restrictions, they bad assured her Majesty's government of their desire to meet the case fairly. Tea lest communication received from France offered very eon eiderable concessions ; still her Majesty's government did not consider them sufficiently full, and the Foreign-offiee Mu now waiting for the rejoinder from the French govern swat to the last communication sent them. When their lardehips considered the extent of the seaboard of France, bee excellent harbour*, her scientific skill in the building of vessels, the intelligence of her inhabitants, and the fact that for two hundred years she had been protecting her mercantile marine, and when they further considered that during the last fifty years the number of her vessels above 200 tons had diminished, it must be admitted that protection was insufficient to sustain that marine. • (Hear, hear.) lie contended that our prosperity was increased by the prosperity of other countries; still, if the protectionists understood their own interests, they ought to wish that France should continue her prohibitory duties, should continue to deprive herself of that mineral wealth which was the basis of her prosperity, and should continue to keep thew reatrictiote on her marine which would prevent her ism having the general carrying trade of the world. (Rear, bear.) With regard to Spain the question was mere important. Communications had been received from the Spanish governmeut of a favourable nature ; and indeed it would be strange if it were otherwise, for restrictions to that country could only °pewee to the advantage • the smuggler. The United States was obviously the most important point in the controversey. It bad been stated by the noble lord, and could not be denied, that we were placed at a disadvantage in being excluded from the western ports of America. Still, although the navigation laws had been repealed, we still retained a power to enter California, and the English ship owner, as the statistics proved, had not neglected to avail himself of that privilege. Much was seldom to be obtained from an appeal to the generality of governments. Nations most stand upon their rights, and there was very little doubt that the United States' government were techni cally right is viewing the trade between New York and San Francisco as a coasting trade. (Hear.) In many respects the repeal of the navigation laws had operated very much in our favour, and one of these was, that it prevented sorted cargoes from going from one country to another, and that, in tact. it had created for us a new trade. We bail the must perfect reciprocity with certain countries. With Sweden and the Baltic, for instance, tbia reciprocity existed. It was possible that foreign governments, when they heard a large and powerful party in this coun try, led by • man of such distinguished ability as the noble lord, stating that all our interests were going to ruin—al though those foreign governments might find it difficult to reconcile such a statement with our extensive commerce and public revenue—might be induced, though he did not think they would be, Wide/ their prohibitions with slowness. It was important to observe that with reference to the commercial tariffs of other nations, the tendency was generally to a more favourable revision. True it was that in America attempts had been made this year to render the tariff more stringent ; but there, as well es here, it was far easier fur the protectionists to complain of free trade when they were in opposition than to run the risk of abolishing it when they were in power. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the statistics of the noble lord, he was quite correct instating that there had been a diminu tion of 300.000 tons inwerds still, we had not unfortunately that full information on this point which was so very die sirable, though, from the arrangements which had been made, be believed 04 such iuformatiuu would in future be laid before parliament and the country. 'fhe official returns from the United States showed what had taxon place in that country iu the first six months after the navi gation laws hail been repealed. It heel then 6.8,000 tons employed in the foreien trade, and New York alone had 34,000 tons employed in that trade. It was an important - fact that there haul been an actual diminution in the United Sietes of vessels employed in the foreign trade, and that there had not been that rush of foreign shipping into this HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TIJCSDAT, ittNE 17. country within the last two years which might have been The S took the chair at half past 12 o'clock. expected. With reference to the Indent trade, in which it PRIVATE BUSINESS. was supposed that the Coked Status could entirely sup- THIRD RPM/MOS.—East Anglian Railways; Electric plant us, the British shies inwards had been, in Telegraph Company; East Statehouse Waterworks; New- MO, 406,000 tons; and, in 1841, 412,000 tons, ark upon Trent Improvement and Market ; Bills. showing a very considerable increase. (Hear, hear.) SHREWSBURY AND BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY The prognostications therefore that our shipping trade BILL. would be ruined by the repeal of the navigation laws had Consideration of hill ordered to lie upon the table. set been verified by the results. He did not deny that Amendments were proposed and agreed to. there was some pressure on the shipowners, but he AYLESBURY ELECTION, odd notadmit that it was consequent on the change in the The report of the select committee on petitions of Tho law. That pressure was felt mainly on the coasting trade, ems Hughes Bradford and John Strutt was read and con trast it arose from the competition in the inland trade. lie/ I deleted. we thrown open our coasting trade the depression might j The ATTORNEY-GENERAL considered it necessary have been charged to foreign eorapotitioft, but that was , to call the attention of the house to only one portion of the sot the caw. Ile was aware also that the peeswn Well report. The committee represented that it was an 'Anwar ' great on the owners of second-class vessels, who fund it I wettable breach of the privileges of the house for any Per difficult now to obtain freights ; but this was a nataral eon- ; SOD to set the name of any other person to petitions pre sequence, for in every rue of competition the most seated to the house. He should therefore first move that tardy must be left behind ; but, with regard the report be agreed to; and in the next place, that John to first-class ships, the demand fur them was un- Strutt and Charles Cunningham, being the persons who tonally emcee (Hear.) Another ground of complaint had signed the name of Thomas Hughes Bradford, and brought forward by the petitioners, was the obligation to thereby been guilty of a breach of privilege, should be owe their ships with British seamen. lie did n-,t with to committed to the custody of the Sergeant -at-Ar ms. Ana on that point now, but he admitted that concurrently The report was then agreed to; and it was then ac. MIMI tan repeal of the navigation laws, it might have been cordingly ordered that John Strutt and Charles Cunning -10 remove the existing restrictions on the manning ham be committed to the custody of the Sergeant-at- Nille to C c. o3lM t l k B e S o lO n N thi l s 3aL. OM" and in this respect it was not the intention of the Arms. ! camasat to leave q~egtio th ot e h ß er ri ec tis m h p s l h a ir ze s r t gen to ul an ar y f, u w a : T .S h T e . h A . LBAN ax T ,, D d li , lß id r e e rs u h c le tio r as edu w e e ti r., ons in had p alreadyss. T b h e c e n n . the M r r e . port ß Of iC. Nse S committee [t in : ye as utterly inconsisten He t. The d fartherLasitil=" c o n roe was another source of pressure on the Liverpool trade, committee declared that the candidate against whom the which the petitioners bad not adverted to. Mr. Lind. petition had been presented had been duly elected, and at say. a shipowner of considerable experience and ability, who the settle time declared that they had not been enabled to had written much on the subject of the repeal institute a full and fair inquiry in consequence of certain of the navigation laws, had found that, owing to London • material witness having been improperly removed and being the great vntreput of the world, and the produce of kept out of the way. Ile was far front objecting to fur all nations coming to it, there was no dieficulty in getting rber inquiry ; on the contrary, he thmight further inquiry freights to London, but it was no t so as to Liverpool , was necessary in reference to the character of the house ; although that port being in close proximity to the Inane. bat he was also of opinion that further inquiry should \ b the Ova a manner as not additionally to I ftlella of the house. The mmmittee jai until the missing willows's were I obtelsoillArga amestellies was to be appointed that au shads efteild menict al members of the House of Cora mane, dad not of commissioners, as now proposed. Hs objeetel to peserZi zi against the parties who had been =olt and to the party corrupting all the wtsish he have mimed when he resorted to ire MOW for Om o f procuring his election. He ) alif the one party, undoubt edly ; but be elm iminfr.not letting the other party esespe,rllibist any pasiebsent whatever. The committee having this bill he would adept it ; but he would eadeavo ll er gi r ei nmend the bill; and while he would do all which dill of the committee desired to have dose, he would propose to do still more. He believed it was pmeffeis se ler te emend this bill as to ensure justice to the , mai lo proem the character of the house. There Wi loess s resew weber of allegations of ~bribery a reaas the Bolbrm Bill than before that bi ll hesel daring this last general election fourteen boroughs had bess shagged with bribery and comiption. The noble lord who woe then as now at the head of the government, undertook to bring In a bill which should effectually remedy these flagrant offences; and the noble lord did introduce such a measure bearing the title of a bill to provide for inquiry into corrupt practices in the election of members of parliament. Since then three years hid passed, and although that bill had been lost in the Lords, solely on account of the details, and not of the principle it contained, neither the noble lord nor his legal advisers had introduced any similar mea sure in principle to remedy these evils. Thus they were still without sufficient legal remedy, and were called upon, when occasion required, to legislate for that occasion ; the present being an occasion which actually forced them to some legislation. But any measure that OtlVshould be consistent with the dignity of that and likely to meet the approval of the other branch of the legislature. The government had put in a clause the names of three gentlemen who were to be appointed commissioners. Now, the noble lord in his former bill had assumed the principle that the commission ers should be appointed by the judges of assize, but in the present case he nominated the commissioners himself. The first was certainly the most decorous mode of effecting the object, as the noble lord himself had recognised in 1818. As a precedent the course now proposed was a had one, and the wh ol e bill was a bad precedent. He (Mr. Banker) pro posed what would be a better precedent—that they should appoint three members of that house as commissioners. He should propose, in the first place, that the clause be omitted, and that would raise the question whether the commissioners should be paid zommissioners, nominated by the government, and carrying on their proceedings away from the influence of that house and from the public eye ; or whether they should be, as they ought to be, under the immediate super vision of the house, and under the public eye ? Let them wad, if it were necessary, till those witnesses who were con. sealed could be produced. Ile now moved that this clause be omitted,and if he succeeded he should then substitute another clause, which should name other commissioners, members of that house, and selecting those who had been members of the late committee, if they would accept the service. If they refused, he would engage to find five members of the house who would accept the functions, and prove that they could form a tribune' competent to try questions of thus nature. (Hear, bear.) Mr. E. ELLICE, jun., having defended the bill, Mr. FRESIIFIELD said he should vote against the clause. The committee then divided, and the numbers were— For the clause 66 Against it l7-49 The several clause+, with verbal amendments were then agreed to, and a new clause was added empowering the Treasury to remunerate the commission as seemed most ad- visable.. The house then resumed. NEW MEMBER. Mr. JOHNSTONE, the newly-elected member for the counties of Kinross and Clackmannan, took the oaths and his seat. • The bon. member was introduced by Sir 11. Verney and Mr. Elliot. AYLESBURY ELECTION. The Serjeant-at-Arius appeared at the bar, and stated that John Strutt and Charles Cunningham were in his custody. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that John Strutt and Charles Cunningham be brought to the bar of the house, and reprimanded by the Speaker, and then to be dis charged. Mr. Strutt and Mr. Cunningham, from their posi tion, ought to have been aware of the provisions of the act, and oughttohave known that they were nut atoll warranted in the procedure of which they had been guilty. The motion having been agreed to, John Strutt and Charles Cunningham were brought to the bar in the cus tody of the Sergeant-at-Arms. The SPEAKER addressed them in these terms : You, John Strutt and Charles Cunningham, have been found guilty of forwarding a petition which was presented to this house on the 28th of April last, purporting to be signed by Thomas Bradford. Now it appears from the report of the select committee, who examined carefully into the mat ter, that you, John Strutt, under the sanction, and at the instigation of your partner, Charles Cunningham, did most unwarrantably and culpably affix the name in question to that petition. It is the duty of this house to protect the right of petition from abuse, and it is deter mined by the just exercise of its authority to check any practices which, by casting doubts on its privileges, have a tendency to lessen their value and importance. According to the ancient rules of this house it is a breach of its privi leges for one person to affix the name of another to any pe tition presented to it. In your case the excuse of igno rance cannot be pleaded. But as the house is at all times inclined to exercise the utmost leniency, consistent with the support of its dignity and authority, and as the house is willing to hope, that you repent of the act of which you have been guilty, the house is willing to believe that you have been already sufficiently punished in the exposure to which you have been subject. I am commanded by the house to convey to you the expression of their displeasure, and I therefore now reprimand you, and acquaint you, that you are discharged front custody on payment of the fees. Mr. Strutt—Allow me ono word. I regret very much—, The SPEAKER interrupted Mr. Strati, and said he could not be beard. The prisoners were then removed. PREVENTION OF OFFENCES BILL. The house went into committee on this bill. The several clauses of the bill were agreed to, with some verbal amendments. The house then resumed, and at half-past 3 adjourned until 6 o'clock. The SegaKea resumed the chair at five o'clock. PUBLIC BUSINESS. Petitions were presented by Mr. ELLIS, from Lei cester; Mr. COBDEN, from Bury (Lancashire), Eye, South Pethcrton, Halstead, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, from a congregation of Baptists at Boston (Lincolnshire), and from inhabitants of Halifax, Egerton (Lancashire), Tureen (Lan cashire), Rochester, and Ipswich ; and Mr. LOVEDEN, from Aberystwith, in favour of international treaties for the mutual reduction of armaments. Tag Battor.—Mr. H. BERKELEY postponed his motion on the ballot till the Bth of July. TH6 NAVIGATION LAW REPEAL Act —Mr. lIERRIES, gave notice to move, ,pn Tuesday next, au address to the crown, praying her Majesty to give such direc tions as might seem meet for giving effect to that provision of the act repealing the navigation laws whereby her Majesty was empowered to adopt with respect to those nations which continued to give any preference to vessels of their own nation over British ves sels, either directly or indirectly, such measures as might ' appear to her Majesty necessary to countervail the disad- I vantages to which British vessels were thus subjected. The hon. gentleman said he gave this notice less in the hope of being able to bring on the motion on the day he had named, than of making some arrangement with the government, whereby a time might be fixed for its coming on. TRANSPORTATION.—Mr. ANSTEY, to move an amend ment on the motion of Sir W. Molesworth, praying that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should immediately cease. TUT Rtnirst DOM:M.—Mr. BRIGHT, on the grant to protestant dissenting ministers, commonly called the &giant Donuns, being proposed in the miscellaneous esti mates, to move the withdrawal of that grant. HARWICH ELECTION. Mr. BANKES moved that the petition which he had preunted on the preceding day from the electors of Har wich should be printed with the votes, and stated that on Friday he should submit • motion to the house thereon, as a question of privilege. Sir DE L. }.VANS rose to order. Ile submitted that the petition was not a proper one to be printed, as the merits of the Harwich election had been referred to a parliamentary committee. After a few words from Mr. RANCES and Mr. ILATrza, Mr. BANKES said be would now merely move that the petition should be printed with the votes ; and he would take the sense of the house upon that motion. After some discussion, Mr. BANKES withdrew the motion, stating that he should renew it if in the mean time the petition was not printed by order of the committee on petitions. THE ST. ALBANS ELECTION.—IMPRISONMENT OF EDWARDS. Mr. SPOONER moved that Henry Edwards, now con fined in Newgate by reason of his agency in the removal of certain witnesses, whose evidence was required by the St. Alban's Election Committee, from the jurisdiction of the house, be brought to the bar this day to be discharged. Ed wards, he said, now came before the house with a full, ab solute, and complete confession of his guilt, throwing him self upon the mercy of the house, pleading that his pro longed confinement would be ruino u s to hi s a ff a i rs , an d pledging himself to appear and give evidence before any tribunal. Mr. flume, the Attorney-General, Sir G. Grey, and Mr. Anatey spoke against the motion, which Mr. Newdogate supported. The house then divided: i.;14;713p00n erVnotion Against CEYLON. On returning to the gallery, we found Mr. HUME addressing a question to the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, in reference, as we understood, to certain proceedings in Ceylon connected with Captain Watson, and wishing to know when the papers would be laid on the table ? Mr. HAWES stated, in reply, that as yet they had not been received, though expected; but, when 'Traced, they would be laid ou the table. MALT TAX. Mr. BASS, in submitting the motion of which he had given notice, the repeal of half the malt tax, after the 10th October, 1852, possessed by other nations at the same elfeberitte cossideration of the question at pressat. But he of naval s trength the said he would Mai at proms eater Into any j only natural course of regulating the force by the amount that his proposition did not, in any way, involve the also on the same occasion, after showing that the naval ex ex tressed h should take the earliest opportunity of assuring the house time. And the noble lord ut the headgovernment alluding and it had nev e r with that view, named a day beyond the financial 1 been the custom to allude, to w r h i t e m e ig e ht be the military revenues of the current financial year. Not desiring that penditure of France had greatly increased , i m . his proposition should involie those revenues, he had, , self to this effect, that he was not g, year, • namely, the 10th of October, 1852, and force of foreign countries, and h e_ dd . not advert Exchequer might make himself easy on on and ought to be brought within therefore the right bon. gentleman the C t h h a a n t c po ell i o n r t of T th h e e I f to or th eig e n st m an u t t n i g y a ; rzy t a k g ep r Lu t p in i c n re /La c n i e n e th or ei A , n u a st v r y ia , , ati or . a a r t i . y . Wile he then wished to try was, whether the house was did require the attenti on, , _ i o e f luul this lu c o o ted unt th ry e f s i e xe P rr g he e ir s redabraliond, at t f the any d p u e ty ri olm t a o l France and he ra wasnotth e naval pro• proceeding on a t entertain (Hear, h t e h e e r.) qu l e n sti b o r n iegi of eg a to the sho knowledge tthat thef the governmentho u ae. of dua be bad no desire whatever to embarrass her Majesty's ceedings of other nations , an d forward this motion he wished to impress it on the house, government. On the contrary, he had been many years baseless nesump tion when he said that this had been the There were two as bumble , but earnest, supporter of the present ministry. policy of the two countries. grievances . to navy according tor the force k • e denied that. Ho policy, and tended to increase the evil on both melee. a brewers and malsters question. H that had been done had been grounded It had been objected to his proposition, that it was allege against that policy ; the first that it . was an irritating bad not been asked by any one brewer to submit the Almost eeeryt The countries didnot consult or b y The hono ble member appealed to the published foreign country. opinion of the Speaker himself, contained in a pam- nicest° with oue another, hut persons were sent out to get proposition, whilst the maltaters deprecated it altogether. upon exagge ra ted i'll notions of what had been done a e barley and l and captains who were abroad made reports of what was of this duty would relieve the producer of the phi t printed some years since to show that the reduction information in a surreptitious way , and then the admirals consumer of beer without entailing any serious loss to the going on, in which he saw the traces of' great exaggeration. exchequer. The right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of Onr navy estimates were greatly increased in 1815 and the Exchequer said, on a former occasion, in reply to the 1846. The French were alarmed ; a committee was ap bon. member for the North Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. pointed in the Chamber of fevers, and a re p or t w a s made Caylcy), that a reduction of duty was not always produc- from that committee by Baron Dupin, in which lee said tiro of benefit to the consumer, and alleged, as the that he had to announce a great sc hem e of the English season for the falling off in the consumption of beer, government which would have a great effect on foreign that the taste of the people for their favourite countries—that, under the modest pretence of protecting commerce, they were converting trading vessels into d its t e c e ed rsge in had diminished. dtihmierneish was e d Now,eor when e n or m ous i i nc rease duty in n the w a s e e rc e an ships of war; that eight line-of-hattle ships had gumption of beer. The consumption had reached its been built is one year, and would probably he highest point. After 1836 it declined, but that was owing doubled in another. Ile (Mr. Cobden) had stated to the circumstances that tea, coffee, and cocoa had that the discussion of 1818 had led to a very great in been brought into greater competition with beer. People crease of the French navy, and he would give an illustra could not drink all manner of things and in the same pro- tion of the wily in which this principle operated on the one portion. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Although in country and the other, and reacted in England. lie had 1812 there were only 4,185,000 quarters of malt consumed, shown that in 1815 and 1848, we had increased our navy and in 1817 only 4,200,000 quarters, yet in 1850 there were by a million sterling, and that in 1846 the French chem. 5,300,000 quarters consumed, being more than 1,000,000 bees voted an increase amounting to a hundred million quarters over the consumption of 1847. The taste of the francs. But again, excited by the example of France, our people for intoxicating beers had diminished, and they now navy was increased ; and to show the action and reaction drank beers of a more moderate strength, so that the con- upon this country, as well as France, he would quote sumption of light beers had considerably increased. He a sentence from the speech of Mr Ward, then secretary now brewed 10 barrels of light beer to one barrel of strong to the Admiralty, in support of the increase. Mr. Wprri said beer, and where he formerly brewed three barrels of strong that the naval prececelings of France ought to be a lesson beer they did not now brew one. (Hear, hear.) It was a to us, and that they imposed a heavy responsibility upon remarkable fact that beer had not changed its price for 21 those who had power in this country. So that when years. Whether the price of barley was 305., 60e., or the France had made a great increase of her navy in terror of average price of 335. tkl., the price of beer was always the the preparations which she saw making in this country, the same. (Laughter.) There wasa reason for that stability of Secretary of the Admiralty proposed an augmentation of price with respect to beer which did not apply to all trades. our naval force on the plea that the French were increasing In the spring of 1847, when the price of barley was 5.55., theirs. Ile held in his hand an extract from a report of a they tried to advance the price of beer, but it did not last committee of the National Assembly of France in 1819, ten days, for the retail dealers came in a body . to the which was to the effect that they must see whether brewers, and told them that they could not alter their retail the foreign force really showed them an exam prices; that they (the brewers) must take an average profit plo of increasing the naval armament of France. and loss, and set the gain of one year against the loss of That very year England had voted 43.000 men for the sea another. Now if the retail dealers would not be satisfied service. } twice contented herself with 21 sail of the line, with a change for one year, he would put it to the hon. while the English had 70 afloat, besides those which were member for Sussex, who had an amendment upon his mo- building. Ile next came to the right hon. gentleman who tion, whether they would submit toe change every quarter was now, in 1851, at the head of the Admiralty, and he of a year fur five years, which must be the result if his pro- might tell the house that the remark lie was about to refer position for " reducing the rate of duty by 11d. per bushel to, which was made by that right lion. gentleman, had in every quarter of a year till the whole was repealed," was duced him (Mr. Colden) to bring forward this motion. The carried. Another objection to the amendment of the bon. right hon. gentleman had said it seas impossible to fix upon gentleman was that, us the traders would require an allow- what was necessary for our own naval establishment with ance for the duty on the stock on hand, the stock would out looking at the establishments of foreign countries, and have to be taken every three months, and how was it he might observe that a people not far off from ourselves possible to do that ? He would now show that the revenue did not neglect their naval power. The right hon. gentle would not belikcly to suffer from areduction of the maltduty. man then gave a description of Cherbourg, and a formidable Mr. Bass then went on to support his position that if the account of the preparations there. In the Fiench Chamber excise were diminished a large increase would take place in on the 11th of April, a month or two after the hon. gentle the demand for malt, adulteration would be discouraged, man had spoken here, reference was made to the naval I and while the enhanced consumption would in great meet- preparations making in this country, and the necessity of sure replace the revenue on its present scale, the public not leaving the most important spots on the French would obtain a genuine article at a cheaper rate. coast in a defenceless state, considering the vast Mr CAMPBELL opposed the motion, avowing that he works which the British government was executing would prefer a 2s. duty upon corn to a mutilation of the in Jersey and Alderney, which should be made malt tax. an example for the establishments of France. Mr. FREWEN said that the hon. gentleman (Mr. Bass) The English steam navy was increasing every day, and they *lust be aware that the great point with the agriculturists must be upon their guard against that powerful enemy at was to have the malt tax altogether repealed. lie wished their own doors. Such was the feeling excited in France therefore to know from the hon. gentleman whether his by the proceedings in this country. The best thing the motion was to be taken as a step towards a total repeal? house had done was to stop the works and fortifications in Mr. BASS said that he had twice voted for the total re- Alderney, which were an affront to Frauce, and specially peal, and it was because the motions for total repeal had meant as rivalry to Cherbourg. Cherbourg, as everybody been defeated that he now made the present proposition. knew, was a most useful, valuable, and indispen (Hear, hear.) sable port of refuge for merchant ships—the most Mr. FREWEN said in that case he would not move his valuable on that coast, and so valuable that the port of amendment. (Hear.) Cherbourg might have been made by the subscriptions of Mr. ALCOCK assumed that the tax had been already all the maritime nations of Europe. It was under the influ given up upon principle, and was retained solely for the once of a panic that the works at Killian', which were to sake of revenue. He suggested, as a partial reimburse- cost 1,200,0001., were begun, and the works at Jersey and ment for any possible loss by the reduction of the malt duty, Alderney. Those at Alderney would cost four times as much the imposition of an import duty on Peruvian guano, which as the fee simple of the island was worth. England had could damage no one except the government of the pro- not the monopoly of the folly of these things. France ran clueing country, who kept in their own hands a complete an eager rivalry with us. It was stated in a pamphlet monopoly of the trade, and sold it here at 91. per ton, written by M. Michel Chalons (as we understood)—written whereas it might be delivered at 51. 10e. with the view of stopping this national rivalry in waste and Sir W. JOLLIFFE, ,pleading the severe distress of folly—that whilst England had projected works which had the agriculturists, entreated the house to abolish the malt cost front ten to eleven millions eterlinge, France had at the tax altogether. If the hon. member for Derby divided, he game time projected works to the seine amount ; and he should go with him into the lobby, but it would be with a showed that from 1837 to 1818 England and France had full determination to aim at effecting a change in the whole mutually augmented their naval expenditure to the extent system of taxation. of from twelve to fourteen millions sterling, and that the After a few remarks from Mr. L. Ilerworerit, who sup- amount thug expended by one country was within a few ported the motion, hundred thousand pounds of that expeuded by the other. Mr. FRESHFIELD submitted that no boon would be Assuming that there had been this spirit of rivalry conferred on the Carmen by reducing the malt tax, unless between the two countries, then came the question they were aseurred that the duties which must be imposed was there a remedy fur it ? Was it possible to to supply the vacuum in the revenue would prove less in- bring the human reason to bear on this matter furious in operation. at all. History already afforded us a pattern for his Mr. SANDAItS also opposed the motion. suggested remedy. In 1817 a convention was en- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said altered into between England and America, limiting, though the motion before the house differed in form from and practically removing altogether, the armed force that which was recently negatived by a majority of two to severally maintained on the frontier lakes of Canada. one, yet substantially and in spirit it was the same ; and if France was the only state they had to consider, and he be wanted evidence of that he would find it in the declam- asked again was it impracticable that something like the tion of the hon. member for Peter/Meld (Sir W. Jolliet?), same rule could be adopted with regard to France, as we that he would not support the motion unless he believed it had with regard to America, or were we to go on as/infini te be a steppingstone to the repeal of the malt tax. By lam wasting our resources in the way we dill now ? lie adopting this motion, however, one of the advantages con- might be told that the state of the times was not favourable nected with the malt tax would be entirely lost, namely, to ouch an experiment as this. Ile thought this was the the raising of so large an amount of revenue at as proper moment. Ile might hr told that this was a period cheap a rate. There was no similar amount of taxa- threatening war; he thought that the experience of the last tion raised so cheaply. Having stated his views on this three orfouryeareshowed that nations were disposed topeace. subject, when it was recently introduced by his hon. friend Well, then, the lion. gentleman proceeded to say, what was the member for the West Riding, he confessed that he was the use of keeping up su enormous a naval power ? in some difficulty. being unwilling to repeat the arguments Did any one suppose that France would be less willing to which he had used before. He was not quite satisfied with the reduce its burdens, or rather its deficit, than this country? substitute which his hon. friend the member for East Surrey He had had opportunities of conversing with the statesmen had suggested in lieu of the 5,000,0001 raised by a of France, and he had put it to them as he had put it to our tax on malt. Ile very much doubted whether the agri- own statesmen in private, and the answer had been that the culturists would be much benefited by the exclusion of plan he proposed was the very best thing for them, and it a rich and beneficial manure through the imposition of would give them the. greatest possible relief. If our govern a duty equal to the present cost; while, if he imposed a ment made a frieudly proposition to the French govern prohibitory duty it was clear that the exchequer would not meat they were sure of meeting with a cordial welcome. In be benefited. lie (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had not this case there was no sacrifice of pride on the part of Eng the slightest doubt that if this motion were carried, the land, as the French admitted that they did not attempt to price of every description of beer would remain the same. rival England un the seas, but they wieleed to make a re- Under these circumstances he did not think it would be spectable defence. And this brought him to what he con wigs in the house to sacrifice '2,500,0001. any more than it ceived was the strongest reason of all why this system would be wise to remit the whole tax. should be abolished. It was that this spirit of rivalry was Mr. NEWDEGATE disapproved of the proposal to mu- displayed by two countries so equal in point of resources, tilate the tax. Ile had supported the motion for total re- t eking army and navy together, that it was impossible for peal, believing that such a relief would be sufficient to jus- the one country ever permanently to gain an advantage tify the trouble of fielding a substitute for the duty. over the other. It they were dealing with two countries Mr. BROTHERTON objected to every scheme that could one of which must be much etronger than the other, and encourage the consumption of an intoxicating fluid. which adjoined each other, and in which there was a gees- Some conversation ensued between Mr. Drummond, Mr. tion of territory, he might despair, but in the case of Eng- Hume, and Col. Sibthorp. l an d an d F rance t hi s mutual rivalry was only an intima- Mr. BASS shortly replied, and the house divided— tion of homage and respect to the power of the other. lie For the motion Against 76-45 had to say on this subject. He did not ask hint to do tide INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION. in any specific form. A proposal was made by Adam Mr. COBDEN, in rising to propose the motion of which Young towards the middle of the lust century when tra he had given notice, said he did not wish to discuss or en- yelling in France, that France and England should take tertain the amount of the armies maintained on the Conti- their respective navies outinto the Cll4llllel and burn them. sent. When he spoke in his resolution of warlike prepare- He (Mr. Cobden) did not propose that they should buru tions In time of peace in France and England, he alluded to their fleet. All he asked was that they should anti ations and to fortifications. It was well e n d eavour t o effect a diminution iu the force, and kaowa l L e r Our armies bore no reference to the armies on at all events that they should show some wee. the Continent. There could be nn comparison between had been taken to prevent that waste from mutual rivalry them. Ile was anxious that this should be die- which was now carried on. Ile should be told, perhaps, tinctly understood; because, in speaking of the that this was an affair for public opinion. The operations of enormous armies which were the standing curse individual enterprise and public opinion were doing much to of the present generation, a question arose which bring France and England together.He remembered when he was complicated by considerations of a purely do- was in business in Lon lon, '25 years ago, they lad only two mestic character, for large armies on the continent were not posts in a week between England and lerance, and that it maintained fur the purpose of repelling foreign enemies, took 34 hours to transmit a letter. It now took 11 hours. but to repress domestic commotion. He wished also Formerly no man could be heard in our towns and villages to be understood that his present motion was confined to talking a foreign language but that the villager passing entering into a negotiation with France, that the him would call him a Frenchman and very likely insult example might be afterwards followed by other coun- him. They had seen a great change. No ono would have tries which kept up armies. Ile presumed all would said some years ago that they would ever see what they admit that a naval force beyond that which was were now seeing. They saw in this city men from necessary for the police of the sea was an evil. (Mar.) all countries of the world. It was more like a But it would be said that this naval force was necessary gathering of nations in former times when they came up for because other countries were armed as well as we were, a great religious festival. They find here men of all na and that it was necessary we should be protected against tions, speaking various languages and having various habits other powers. But, granting that, and assuming that a come together and meeting together iu a common temple certain force was maintained by France and b y England, erected for their reception and gratification. ( Cheers.) Ile not for the purpose of protecting commerce and acting as asked that the government of this country should put itself the police of the seas, but with the object of keeping up in harmony with the spirit of the age, and to endeavour to a military attitude towards each other, then he raid do some th ing t o f o ll ow up t h at which was being done ill that was a position of unmitigated evil, and not only some measure by private enterprise and public opinion. a pure waste of the money that was expended The hon. gentleman concluded by moving an "Address to for the purpose, but that it would be better far for pur- her Majesty, praying that she will direct the Secretary of poses of economy that that amount of money phould be State for foreign Affairs to enter into communication with thrown into the sin, for that amount of labour which was the government of France, and endeavour to prevent in now kept on board these Olive of war would be liberated future that rivalry of warlike preparation in time of pence, and more profitably employed. He was not in the habit of which has hitherto been the policy of the two governments, troubling the house with quotations, but the evidence he and to promote, if possible, a mutual reduction of alma had to produce must consist of one or two meats." quotations. The first was taken from a debate Mr. URQUHART moved as an amendment, " That it is ta the Chamber of Deputies it. France, in 1846, when it was inexpedient, by resolutions of this house, to move the proposed to vote one hundred millions of francs for a Crown to originate negotiations on abstract questions." lie government augmentation of the navy, which was effected thought that instead of casting aside musty diplomacy, with reference to an augmentation of our navy just pre- it was new-fangled diplomacy that they should east out. viously. The hon. member then quoted the speech of M. With respect to the motion before them, be accepted the offensive France w e a s refer unde underconsiderati o neAu s tr ia, Prussia, i y a e o r r e ß t un hin i i a it w w he otil e d d e be ti. sonegmouticahtioinnsoppsommituiocnh to o t Thiers, to the general effect that there was nothing offen- hon. member's substantive proposition; but he appealed to sive to England in citing her example when the navy of him whether he would confide to the noble lord the task of berating on the strength of the French army. On the Mr. MACKINNON had listened with great attention to alvlahriaisnicniestwwitihteheeisdecharacter, and contrary, France paid a compliment to England in the speech of the hon. member for the West Riding, and thinking of her when determining the amount of naval Ihe considered that that speech, and the efforts which the force to be maintained. Those were the remarks of hon. gentleman had also made to promote a feeling of cor [M. There, when he proposed a larger augmentation of the diality between this and the continental powers, did him French navy than even the government had demanded. infinite credit. (Hear, hear.) Ile thought the matter might He would next quote the authority of the noble lord at the safely be left to the noble lord, who had shown his love of head of the foreign department, as he found it in the peace by having so carefully avoided war. (Cheers.) i speech of the noble lord in the debate on the financial Viscount PALMERSTON, in opposing the motion, scheme of the prime minister in 1148, when the noble lord begged the hon. gentleman not to suppose that he wished said that, so far from affording any cause of offence to to express, or that he was actuated by any feelings or prin- France by this augmentation of our navy, any one who ciples at variance with the fundamental principles upon lowed the debates in the French chamber would see they whicbhis pmpostion had been founded. 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