The Express. — London, England, 1853-05-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAT, MAY 20. The ti AAAAA u took the chair at the weal hour. Tim following bills wens read a third time —Allendale Road Ballymena, liallymasey, Calamine. mut Portrosh Junction Railway (No. 2); Lowatuwellorry, Coleraine. and Belfast Junction Railway; Wawpaey Valle? Railway, Bills. PUBLIC BUSINESS. SAVINGS BANKS. Mr. IIINDLEY wished to know whether the govern ment would be able to bring in a bill this 411111a011 to give some security to de rrisitors in Livins hanky,. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should shortly bring in a bill for that perpowe. The right hon. gentleman then moved that the house, at its rising, should adjourn till Monday neat. TUE SI'IRIT DUTIES. Captain JONES said, seeing that the committee o• the Spirit Duties Dill bad been filed for Monday next, he wiahrd to a•k the right hon. gentleman to postpone it to a later day. lie had received communications trom persons is the trade to the effect that • postponement was most material to their interests. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the parties who were affected by the prorisiun■ of the bill bad had ample time since the bill wit printed to consider its provisions, and they were, in posit of fact, in London at that time for the purpose of communicating with the reve nue dep.irtnisnt on the subject. Ile did not think, there fore, that th. re was any chance of their being taken by surprise. It was moat important, with reference to the proposed remissions of tasvion, that there should be no needless delay in taking the opinion of the house with re glad ;to ;the spirit duty. The course which he proposed to u►e was this. If the Income Tea Bill were read a second time that night, he shoal.' propose to go into committee on Monday. Then would come the committee on the customs resolutions, and after that he bored the house would pro- ceed with the Spirit' Bill. Mr. hI.t(iUIIRE said the ben. gentleman was mistaken in supposing that all the parties interested were in London; many of lbws would not be here till the middle of nest week. Mr. F. SCULLY said he did not hear from his own Con stituent/ on the suljeet until the preceding curling. THE ANNEXATION OF I'EOU. Mr. CODDKN put two questions to the right hon. gentle lam the member foe Helder :—First, Was the province of Pegs amnesia to the British territory in India by the Ooversior-General in Council, without previous instructions from home; sad if se by what law has he power to extend our tutees poriesaisies ? ffecondly, If the Governor- General acted in compliant,. with orders from the home go eirnmest, is there any despatch in existence defining the boundaries of the aewly-scquired territory ? Sir C. WOOD said : Sir, I hope my boo. friend will not think 1 am speaking in a tune of complaint when I say that I do not consider it a reasonable practice to introduce mat ters of the greatest possible importance on a simple notice of • qeesti,n. (Hear, hear.) I do not complain. It is only about two hours ago since I received notice from my hon. friend of his intention to put to me a question which I am perfectly ready to answer. If we are to have a discussion oa the very important question relied by the hon. gentle• ass, I do not see why it should not take place ; but I think it should not take place, simply upon the putting of a quistioo ; sad as I had not the slightest notion that the bon. gentleman intended to raise a dismiss, I hope he will nut think it disrespectful if I condme myself to answer ing his questions. Now, the first questios which he put to ma was this :—Was the province of Pegs annexed to the British territory in ludic by the Ottromeor-Cieneral in Council, without previous instraetiem kern base ? My answer is, certainly not. If the beammable gentlemaa will refer to the wars already on the table with regard to the baseliitim with Bar nub, at page 46 he will and time work : " The Oovernoe-Oeneral proposes that tss waists of Peso, extending somewhat above Prime, ba retained ant perennially occupied as British lenitery an the termina tion of the war. Ile proposes that ea lba best mode of indemnifying the government for the imam which it has been put to to vindicatiag the rights at British subjects who have been injured by the Busman at. In page 63 is a despatch of the sewn esssillss Se the °over nor-Oeneral in Council; sod my bra. Mead has been long 'sough a member of an India moomighot W knew that a despatch so (tuned does convey the sanitise sad authority, not merely of the Board of Control, bat dam government of this country. The approbation and andandAr of the Bri tish government is conveyed la dime weeds " are of opi nion that the permanent anamatica to the BrltYebdominions of the Prosier), of Pegg, including Press, &sold be adopted as a meamare of compensation sad ealleem for the past, and of security . for the future." The Governor. General states what is hie view, subject to the approval of the home goverment ; end that approval was conveyed to him on 23rd of December lest. My answer, therefore, to the best question is, that undoubtedly the authority of the government of this country was given to the Governor. General for the annexation of Vega. The second question was, " If the Ooeerner•General acted in compliance with orders from the borne government, is there any despatch in existence defining the boundaries of the newly-acquired territory." T — iiime kr no despatch in 'Matinee actually prescribing the bormikeke. The Province of Pepe is • country Men, dl an from Burnish; it was con quered by the isineese, ■ad is inhabited by a totally thiferest PM d people, who have uniformly received our weep is the scot kind and cordial as theit &livens etss batter conquerors and oppressors I do not think the beeadariee are pointed out, but an order bale bees gives by the Oovernor-Oenexal to lay down, if a bind hal clear line of:demarcation between the et %ma and the annexed proviso*. Mr. U. GIBSON begged to ask the right ken. gentleman whether he was suilleiently informed on the question to be in a position to state whether or not the new province mesa pay its own expenses. (Hear, hear.) Str C. WOOD said so far as he was informed he had =messes to believe that it would pay its own expenses giving a most complete check to any further hoii ati—e—soa Hsi part of Burnish. Hr. BRIGHT said his right hon. friend had administered • lecture to his hoe. friend the member for the West &iliac, though he intimated that he bad no wish to do so, lee making say observations before putting his questions. Now,lnsfortintately, there were very few opportunities of maim any remarks In that house. (Hear, hear.) In the other house when petitions were presented any question might be diseased at length. Time was when that was the practice of that house. He did not recommend the house to return to it—(bear)—because it would be an interrup tion of business • bet still, when the government had with drawn a day he m what were called independent members' days, they enshil ad Is take it unkindly when observation were r.in pottier a question. Now, the right hoo. gen tlemen bad sired that the province of Pegs would pay its own ovum Precisely the same statement had been made by meet President of the Board of Control in all railer doss tie the last fifty or seventy years, and there was, he benewsk we single instance in which it had not beenfilhisified by the result. If they might take the opinion of preens esicersaat with Indian affairs, never was there a ease, ben the days of Lord Clive to the days of Lord Delhosaie, in which there was a smaller chance of a new predate poen Lae expeases. Now, he would like to ask gib debt lir neatilemen whether he was able to give the hew any Yin masa with regard to the present, or the probable expense of the war. In matters con nected with India, it was impossible until four or five years after all the events were over to ascertain what had been done, and be would therefore be glad to hear also whether any deepateh had been sent to India to authorise any further annexation of territory. Sir C. WOOD said he was not prepared to say what would be the precise expense of the Burmese war in the present yeer ; but if his hon. friend would repeat the ques tion on Monday he would answer it. In the last year the expense was paid out of the ordinary , and he had every reason to believe that it would be so this year. With regard to the second question, whether an order had been sent out to annex, any further territory, his answer was, undoubtedly not. His object had been that the an nexation should be confined within the narrowest visible limits; and that no more territory sherd be taken than was within the river Irrawaddy, whets the country was ex ceedingly fertile. RICBELLION IN CHINA. - . _ . Lord JOCELYN said that accounts had appeared in the public papers f the rapid spread of the rebellion in China, ft being stated that the rebels had taken the city of Nankin, and were advancing on the capital of China. It was stated farther, that the emperor had applied to the representative of the lintah government for std, bat whether by means of an armed force, or in the way of negotiation, was not stated. He wished to know if any despatches had been received by the geverameat eelative to this matter which could be laid cm the taM., and Haat, whether the noble lord the member fee Immtmainnidlnform the hook if such requisition" had been made, sad Woo, what coarse the government intended to take la eemsegeense ? Lord J. RUSSELL would state what had occurred. It appeared that the rebels against the government of the emperor of China had advanced considerably into the govatry, and the last report was that Nankin bad fallen, although there was as yet no certainty that that was the ease. Certainly the town was menaced, sad the rebels were still advancdag. Ia these eireammastes the Prefect of Shanghai, by order. as he said, of the of Nankin, had made applies/ice for assistance to Sir George Bonham, at Hoeg Kong, and the latter was about to proceed to Bhangh.• with a view of protecting British property there. ConAdent hopes were entertained that the means at his disposal were sufficient for that peeper, sad the orders given by her Majesty's government were, that ressana should be afforded to protect the persona and properties of British subjects ; but that there should be no Laterferenee is the civil war at present going on. (Hear, hear.) He could not say at that moment whether govern ment had any papers to lay on the table. KILMAINHAM HOSPITAL. - - RISING OF TILE MOUSE. A motion was agreed to that the house, on its rising, do adjourn to Monday next. MAYNOOTH.—MINISTERS' MONEY. Mr. MAti UIIt F. wished to know whether her Majesty's government inrended to allow the Maynooth vote to repels as it stood at rresent,er whether a supplemental vote would be brow/hi in to supply the delciexey created by the di vision of the previous night. lid wished also to know whew government intended to bring in a bill relative to minute,.' money, a subject which caused the greatest anxiety in Ireland. Lord J. RUSSELL, in answer to the Ant question, said, that government having regularly introduced the estimates for the repairs of the Collrge of Maynooth, end the house having refused that vote in committee of supply, it was not their intention to bring in a supplemental vote. (Cheers.) With respect to ministers' money a bill would certainly be introduced, but he could not say the exact day. EDUCATION. _ . Mr. BRIGHT postponed toa fntaneveninghis question on the subject of education. LAW OF PARTNERSHIP. Mr. RICARDO had a question to ask the right hon. the President of the Board of Trade, one which had been often asked, and to which the answer had always been, that the anxious attention of the government was beicg devoted to the subject. Ile hoped be should not get the same answer this time, and wished to know whether the commission to engiaire into the law of partnership had been yet nominated, and whether this anxious attention of government had as yet produced any useful result. (A laugh.) Mr. CA !COWELL said that the report of the commission had passed through the hands of the Lord Chancellor, and would be forthwith presented. INCOME TAX BILL. On the order of the day fortlic;eCOOd reading of this ►ill, Mr. DISRAELI said that, ennsideriag the state of pub lic business, it wag not his intention to offer any observa tions in the present stage of the bill ; but at the same time he must reserve to himself the full right of slaking in cons mittee any objection he might think necessary to the clauses. Also, on the third reading, he must not be under stood as having conceded the principle by his forbearance at the present stage. Ills wish was to combine the privi lege of free discussion with the concession of all possible facilities to the progress of public business. (Cheers.) In an swer to a question from Mr CRAUTUUD. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that the mode of assessment in the royal burghs of Scotland would be +imilar to that in the English corporations, and proceeded to say that as it was important that the customs resolutions should piss as soon as possible, and as, with re gard to a very large number of them, there was no opposi tion anticipated, be proposed to take that portion on the' same meting as the incomo tax, no matter how late the hour might be. lie should propose all the remissions about ' which there was no objection, reserving for a future occa sion others which were likely to create debate. He mad* this proposal to save time. Mr. DISRAELI said it would be a more convenient ar rangement to take the customs duties on Monday, and the income tax on the Friday following. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the measures alluded to must take their regular course. The income tax must be taken before the customs duties. The bill was then read a second time. SUPPLY.—REPORT. Oa the report oltiec7ominiiieeoisuPply being brought u Sir F. KELLY, in au almost inaudible tone, was under stood in second the request of the right boo. member for Bucks with regard to the income tar, on the ground that I several Irish members would not have returned to town by Monday next. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should be most anainus to meet the wishes of the right hon. gentleman, but a sense of public duty obliged him to adhere to the regular order of proceeding. The arrange ment which be had announced, was in strict confor mity with repeated previous announcements. The fate of the income tax depended mainly on the stage next to come, and they (the government) deemed it expedient to with hold all remissions of duty until the house hod given its consent to the tax in committee. With respect to Monday, the announcement had been made before the recess, and he could not but think that Irish members who might feel an interest in the bill, would be found, as they ought to be, in their places when the time arrived. M. MACARTNEY complained that a promise made by the late Sir Robert Peel in 1846 with respect to Ireland, bad not been adhered to t y his successors. It appeared that Sir R. Peel had proposed that the capecse of prosecutions at assizes and sessions should be transferred from the local rates to the consolidated fund. This proposal had been carried out in the case of England and Scotland, while the old practice remained in force in Ireland, entailing on that country a very considerable expense. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not know whether the hon. member urged • promise unful filled, or present expediency, with regard to this matter. In any case, it was a matter worthy the consideration of government. Colonel DUNNE urged this subject on government as a proper matter for inquiry. Sir I. YOUNG reminded the hon. member for Antrim that at the period alluded to by him, Ireland received a great boon from which England was excluded. Ho thought the whole question of local taxation in Ireland was a subject well worthy the consideration of Irish members. The report was then brought up and agreed to. THE DERBY DAY Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that on Monday next he should move the adjournment of the house over Tuesday, ' the latter being the Queen's birth-day, and also, seeing that there was only one order of the day for the following day (Wednesday), he should move a further adjournment until Thursday next. (Loud cheers.) SUPPLY. The house then went into committee of supply. The follswing votes were agreed to after some discussion : 4,049!. 13s. 4.1. charge for Bermuda. 7,6171. ecclesiastical establishments in BritisW North America. 12,151 L for the Indian department of Canada. 10,4281., for salaries of governors, Beat.-governors, and others, of the West Indian colonies and Prince Edward's Island. 30,2621. for salaries, allowances, and contingencies of the stipendiary justices in the West India colonies and the Mauritius. On the Tote of 16,8441. for the civil establishment of the western coma of Africa Mr. WILLIAMS said a few words, which did not roach the gallery, complaining of some one of the items in the account. Mr. LUCAS expecled the bon. gentleman (Mr. Wil llama) was about, when be brea, to complain of the item 4001., in this vote, for tin ram of the chaplain at Gambia, for seeing bow Mee* that hi.. gentleman and others on the same side, had embed the principle of religious en dowmeat by the Stab ha the case of Maynooth, he thought in consistency they meet appose that principle when applied to the colonies. Mr. W. WILLIAMS reminded the hon. gentleman that religions instruction must be provided, and what ha con tended for was that it should be in accordance with the religion of the majority of the people. Mr. LUCAS did not understand that these chaplains ware for the purpose of affording religions instructs°. to the inhabitants of the settlement at ell, but merely for the benebt of the civil and military servant, there. If hon. gentlemen opposite were really so strongly opposed to re ligious endowment,and is favour of the voluntary principle, they ought in consistency to oppose eadowment. Mr. ANDERSON observed that there was no other mode by which they could provide religious instruction for those establishments, except by the appointment of chaplains. Mr. LUCAS said there was • Roman catholic Ambassa dor at Athens—Mr. Wise—end he believed there waa a chaplain to that embasey—(no)—was he— Lord PALMERSTON (interrupting) There are no chaplains appointed except at imbibes—Greece is a nib aloe, not an enibee. Mr. A. PELLATT wee perfectly prepared to prove his eonaistency in oppseins the principle of state endowment, by moving that thieve* he reduced by the amount of the chaplain's salary, ate, 4111. (Hear, hear.) After some further amnion, Mr. A. PRLLATT said he would withdraw his amend ment, on the assurance that in one or two years the grant would be withdrawn. Mr. PEEL could not give such an ourotioot, am be had said the revenue of the Gambia was isootaito cited it we probable the grant would be transferred to lbs heal 11.- Wastes. The rote was then agreed to. Votes of 10,91.51., for charges connected with the Island of St. Helena, and 5,0001. for Western Australia, were agreed tn. On the sect vote, 5,0911., for New Zealand, Mr. V. SMITH inquired whether any despatch had been received from New Zealand giviog an account of the man ner in which the act passed last section bad been received. Mr. PEEL had not so much as heard of the arrival of the act of last mania. at New Zealand. In answer to Mr. B/4011T, Mr. I'EEL said tits grant to New Zealand would Naas after this year. (Hear, hear.) The vote was agreed to. Oa the vote of Wit. for Heligoland, Mr. MIALL moved that it be reduced by 1001., the charge fur two clergymen. Mr. PEEL said the population was so poor that they were unable to make any provision for public worship. Mr. BRIGHT—Is there any hope that the grant will came ? Mr. PEEL—There is no hope of any revenue from the wands. Oritite nest, 4,7301. for the Falkland Islands, In answer to Colonel DUNIVR, Mr. PEEL said the population was small in reference to the gnat, but it wri increasing. Mr. LUCAS referred to the grant of 4001. for a chap lain, and taunted Sir J. Shelley and gentlenien opposite with incoosisteng in not (pressing their objections to the grants for ehaplaincies to divisions, altho ug h they divided on any endowment to Roman cakholies. Sir J. SHELLEY said the hon. member for Meath was so quick that neither honor one of his friends had an oppor tunity of objecting, as they were about to do. With regard to the last vote, it was said that the population was too poor to provide religious instruction of any kind; and perhaps that was the case in this instance. He would, h move that the vote be reduced by 4001., the grant to the. chaplain. Sir J. WALMSLEY inquired what the population of the Falkland Islands was, and if there were any troops there. Mr. PEEL said there were no troops _there. The resident population was not large, bat the islands were of great la- Mr. I. BUTT said th;tl;l;rklajerty r siis;Wer to the ad dress of that bessib promised inquiry into the management of K Hospital. He wished to know what was to be the mop 4111 that Inquiry, and whether the result would • asammuelaslell Mthat holm. fla wished to know also what larliusllos MI boon given in pursuance of that reply, and whether sevorment intends d to carry out the wish dalitwratsly ermined by a large majarity of that house ? H Mr. S. ERBERT said he had plated himself in tom munitatios with Sir E. Blarney, and had forwarded to that °Meer a list of queries with referee°, to the state of the ho•pital. He had also made 'equities as to the restric tions under which petitioners were admitted into Christ', ea te d f l:S a tt, = 0 apply the same restrictions also that no cat should gain admission bo veers out soldier, asd that those abases wkiali bad prevailed in former times. • • . rt, r •B • • t : s. SSA /ItiNa THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING. MAY 21. 1853. pottanee not only as a depot in ears of war, but in time of peace their grogrephical position at the eztremityof South Africa placed them in the direct line of vessels gang to the Pacific, the number of which had greatly incremed eines the discovery of gold in California. The prosperity of the islands depended on the shipping which eame nit° their harbours to refit and provision. The harbours were very ' semi:odious, and the shipping were resorting to them in preference to the porta on the coast of South America. To show the increasing importance of these islands he would state that the amount of tonnage in their harbours in 1849 was 9,200; in 18.50, 13,672; in 1851, 17,538; and in 1852 it was 22,024. He was not aware of the number of the resident population. After some further discumion, Mr. ATHERTON urged that the charges were excessive in relation to the population. Lord J. RUSSELL said that many of the offices were connected with the rights of the vessels that came to the islands. If any reduction could be made, it should be done ' in future years. Mr. BRIGHT suggested that the magistrate should be got rid of, and his duties performed by the governor ; and as it was now proposed to send medical asissionarkm abroad, why not roll the surgeon and the chaplain into one. He objected to the scale on which the offices in colonies of this kind were established. _ Et/fitments were larger than those given i.o the consoler establishments. Mr. W. WILLIAMS observed that all the istomvehiences sleseribed by the noblo lord applied to the corn's( at Colston, who had 1,3001. a year, to the consul at Amoy. who had SOW., and at Shanghae, who had 1,200/. a year. Canton was an infinittly more important station than Bong-. Kong. There was a very long list of consuls who ought to be struck off. There was one at Frankfort, an inland town, where they bad a minister and two or three attachés, another at Paris, and another at Madrid, at each of which places they had ambassadors. Mr. A. PELLATT remarked that as the climate was un healthy, and they had a Chinese secretary, they might employ more Chinn.. Sir G. PECHELL mentioned the use of a person who Sad been consul at Barcelona who was displaced by the late government without any pension. Lord J. RUSSELL said ho had inquired, when he was at the Foreign-office, whether he could give any pension to to the gentleman in question, but he found be had no power. Sir G. PECHELL said a number of slaves had lately been landed between Havannals and the Cabanas, and it was said that the vessels were not rigged as slave vessels usually were. He understood that our consul in Cuba had been instrumental in bringing this matter to light, and that some sort of compromise had taken place by which about 200 or 300 of the slaves had been given up in order that the captain-general might be able to excuse himself to the crown of Spain. Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that several landings had taken elder, but the attention of government had been directed ta it, and our email' at II avancah had been exceedingly active. Every means had been taken, both by representations at 31adrid, and having an additional force at Cuba, to check the importations. Mr. BRIGHT said there was 500/. under the head of Borneo to the Rajah of Sarawak. as commissioner and consul-general. Ile presumed this alluded to Sir James Brooke, who lived at Sarawak. The capital of Borneo was at least 300 miles from the place of his residence, and the communication between the two places was exceedingly difficult. There was very little, or he should rather say no, trade to make it necessary to have a consul at Borneo, and he regarded this vote as simply • pension to Sir James Brooke . _ _ . _ Mr. PEEL said he would take care that the expenditure was investigated, in order to se* it any reduction could be made. After some further conversation, the committee divided. For the amendment 33 Against The estimate, as it stood, was accordingly voted. Tho nest vote was of 9,2001. for the charge of Hong- KonMr.g. W. WILLIAMS was glad to see that then wrs a decrease of 2,8001. is this estimate as compared web last I year. But there was still much to amend in regard to the excessive salaries which were given to the officials in the island. For instance, the governor got 3,0001., as governor ; and as chief superintendent of trade he received atother 3,0001. a year. He (Mr. Williams) would move that this vote be reduced to 4,4001. Mr. PEEL thought as this estimate was undergoing a gradual proem of diminution no opposition ought now to be offered. The vote had,been yearly reduced since ISO Mr. BRIOIIT thought that the expense in past yeas was attributable to buildioe which were now completed, and that, therefore, no diminution had taken place in salaries, which were absurdly high. Mr. MAOUIRE saw in this vote an item of 7001. for • chaplain. He wished to know what provision was made for the spirited necessities of Roman eatholies, soldiers or civilians, in Hong Kong ? No answer being given, Captain SCOBELL was addressiag the committee, when Mr. MAGUIRE interrupted, and insisted on his question being answered. (Loud cries of " Order, order.") Mr. PEEL had not exactly understood the question. (Order, order.) The CHAIRMAN said that both Mr. Moguls" and Mr. Peel were out of order. Mr. AGLIONBY believed the only question before the committee was, whether the salary of the chief superin tendent of Hong KonE should be reduced from 3.0001. to 1,6001. a year. After the statement of the noble lord, he could not vote for the amendment, but he thought that the way in which the vote was inserted in the estimates was calculated to mislead, and that no one would have supposed that the same individual had 3,0001. a year, as Governor of Hong-Kong. Mr. 0. A. HAMILTON remarked that there was a simi lar discussion last year, and the vote appeared in tho esti mates in the sane manner then. Mr. BRIGHT said the question of the 6001. for Borneo was a point that the noble lord ought to clear up. Lord J. RUSSELL said that was a subject which the government considered some time ago, and he thought it had been announced in the house that there was to be an inquiry. It was stated that the Governor-General of India would appoint • commission for that purpose, but there was some difficulty in point of form ; but it was intended that there should be an inquiry, in order to see in what manner the interests of British commerce could best be promoted in that quarter. Until they got the result of that inquiry, he did not think they should make any alteration. He must say that some time ago there was a general impression that Sir James Brooke bad rendered great service by his enterprising conduct. He was not convinced that Sir James Brooke had lost his title to that 1 reputation and he was not prepared to say that there ought to be anything done without further inquiry. Mr. BRIGHT said he was not speaking with reference to Sir James Brooke. He should say the same thing if it were another person. They paid 3001. to a consul-general who lived 300 miles off, and for a place where there was no trade. If Sir James Brooke had performed services for which they wanted to reward him, it was a different thing. Captain SCOBELL wished to recal the attention of the committee to the question upon which they were about to divide. It was quite evident that they must either cut down the salary of this governor, or increase the salaries of all other governors. Otherwise, they would be doing great injustice to the latter. As for the unhealthiness of the cli mate, the service was a voluntary one, and he did not sup pose the extra salary was to pay for physic. (A laugh.) The committee then divided upon the amendment: Ayes 46 Noes 7O-24 The amendment was therefore lost, and the vote was agreed to. The next vote was 18,500/ for the extraordinary expenses of her Mojesty's missions abroad. Mr. W. WILLIAMS called attention to • charge of 263/. for postage and journeys on the public service by the mi nister at Wurtemberg. Now, what public services, worth the money, could a minister render at a petty German court like Wurtemberg. We had at that court • minister and two or three attachils ; but it did not condescend to accredit an agent to us. As we had ministers in Austria, Flossie, and at Frankfort, which was situated in the centre of all these German states, it was a mere waste of the public money to maintain diplomatic establishments at Hanover, Wurtemberg, or Saxony. Viscount PALMERSTON said an account had been ren dered, and of course no charges of this description were ineurred,:except they were actually due for the transmission of despatches between the two courts. The minister at Wurtemberg was also accredited to the Court of Baden, and as it was neceuary from time to time that ho should go to the latter place, he (Lord Palmerston) supposed the se cond charge to which the hon. gentleman had referred. was for journeys thither in furtherance of his duties. With respect to the general question of having diplomatic relations with the smaller courts of Germany, he (the noble viscount) knew that many persons, like his hon. friend, underrated their value and importance ; but, after having had some years' experience in this matter, he could under take to assure the h..uso that it was a matter of great value and importance that we should have those means of diplo matic intercourse with the venous members of the German Confederation, which the appointment of ministers to those courts afforded us. Those means would net be supplied by the minister at Frankfort, because he was accredited to the Diet, and the representatives of several courts at the Diet had no authority whatever to deal with mat ters of the general policy of their respective courts. The states of Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Saxony, and Hanover had acted an important part in the affairs of Harare as members of the German Confederation, and their policy was by no means a matter of indifference to the interests of this coun try. More than all, it was of great importance that the government of England should be made acquainted with what was passing in foreign countries, and it had often hap pened that we had obtained very important information from these smaller states as to natters which more directly concerned the larger and more important governments of Europe. It was true that the government of Wurtemburg in 1648 or 1849 had from motives of economy withdrawn its minister from this coantry ; bit that was no reason why we should not continue to have • diplomatic agent residieg at Wurtemberg, especially as other foreign powers had not withdrawn theirs. When at the Foreign office, it bad been his strong and clear opinion that it would have been a sacrifice of the public interests to have with drawn our diplomatic relations with this court. (Hear.) The vote was speed to after some discussion ; and the committee proceeded to the sixth head of the civil service estimates, consisting of " superannuation and retired allow ances and gratuities for charitable and ether purposes." The following items were agreed to without remark : 132,9801., for superannuation and retired allowances. 2,9671., for Tonlonese and Corsican emigrants, &o. 2,0001., National Vaccine Establishment. 3251., Refuge for the Destitute. The next vote was-- Capt. SCOBELL proceeded, and repeated Mr.Willians's criticism on the suasive salaries of the governor and ether _ _ _ Mr. PEEL said it was to be borne in mind as a cirmen stance accounting for the disproportion of the salaries riven to governors to those awarded to other officers, that govern ors were not allowed any retiring pensions. Mr. WILLIAMS did not see that that was any reason why them enormous salaries should be given. lie did not know who was the governor of Hong Kong ; but why should he get 6,0001. a year when the Consul at Canton (Dr. Bowring) who was a very able man, and whose services could not be regarded &Bless important, 'mired only lAOOI. a year. Mr. PEEL, at this point, answered Mr. Maguire. There was no provision, that be was aware of, for providing a chaplain ter catholic@ at Hong Kong. , . Mr. MAGUIRE thought it was very unjust that they ' should pay 70W. for • protestant chaplain, and give not`iing for a catholic chaplain. He would move that the sum of 7001. be struck out, if some mole satisfactory answer were not given. Lord J. RUSSELL could not understand the questien. Mr. MAGUIRE repeated it. Lord J. RUSSELL then replied—No, there was no each provision made. Mr. WILLIAMS would include the hon. gentleman's amendment in his, and the ameodmeat would then be, that the estimate be reduced to 4,6001.„ including the 7001. for a chaplain. Colonel DUNNE thought that their "colonial chaplain" was merely the chaplain to the governor's establishment, The chaplains for the soldier, stationed at Hong Kong would be found mentioned in the army estimates • and no doubt there would be catholic as well as protesta nt chap lains. _ _ After some further conversation, Mr. WILLIAMS said he would defer to the opinions of the committee, and not press for a division, unless the hoes. member opposite (Mr. Maguire) did. Capt. SCOBELL would move, then, that the salary of the governor be reduced to 1,6001. Mr. PEEL said it was a question whether the governor should hold more than one Ones ; but as governor, 3,0001. was not too much for his salary. Mr. BRIGHT said that at any rate they might expect for 3,000/. the whole services of any individual. Mr. MURROUGH thought that if a reduction vas to be made, it should be when a new governor was being ap pointed ; for it was notorious that these high salaries had been given, in the first instance, in consequence of the climate of Hong Kong being so unhealthy, that the govern ment bad had the greatest dilliculty in finding men of re pute to go cut there. (Hear, hear.) Capt. SCOBELL (after some further conversation) agreed to postpone his amendment. Mr. MAGUIRE would press his amendment—adding 951. (for the " contingencies") to the 7001. He disclaimed any sectarian motive in this amendment. Mr. H. DRUMMOND thought that such an amendment was foolish. So long aa the church of England was con nected with the state they would have these estimates for chaplains. Mr. AOLIONBY did not see how they could vote for this amendment after having agreed to a chaplaincy in the pre• ceding estimate. Mr. MAGUIRE was perfectly consistent. He had voted for the last amendment; and he hoped as 36 gentlemen bad voted for the last, a larger number would vote ler this, because nearly double the sum was involved. (Laughter.) The committee then divided : 32 Agsinst It 76-44 The vas eras then agreed to. The nest vote was 2,3001. for defraying the charge of Labelle,. Mr. BRIGHT said the Lientenaot-governor bad SOW. a year, and the police magistrate 6001. There was no more population than might be contained within those walls, and he did not see why the two offices s►ould not be com bined. I. vote was thee agreed to. The next vote, 17,398/. for the colonial land and emigration board was agreed to without remark. Oa the vote for 20,0001. for the support of captured MVPS, Mr. BRIGHT observed that the sum wee exactly 20,0001., and it was the samelast year. Was it an estimate or was it actual expenditure. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied that the sum was taken on the average expenditure. If the expense did not amount to the sum, the balance was carried forward. The vote was agreed to. The next vote, 11,2501. for commissions for suppression of the slave trade, was agreed to without remark. The next vote wu 148,8331. for sonsular establishments abroad. Captain SCOBELL moved that the salary of the Gene ral Superintendent of Trade be reduced from 3,0001. to 1,5001. As the same individual was Governor of Hong Kong, at a salary of 3,0001. the effect of the amendment if carried would be to reduce his salary to 4,5001. a year altogether. The governor of Bermuda bed 1,5001. a year, of West Australia 1,3001, and of New Zealand, which was quite as important as Hong Kong, 2,5001. This function ary'. Galling himself governor of Hong Kong was a mere fiction. Ac governor, he had a secretary with 1,8001. a year independently of the colonial secretary, who had 1,6001. a year more. As chief superintendent of trade he had a meretary and registrar at 7001. a year, and he had got a first, etemad, third, and fourth assistant, receiving together about 1,30 W. a year, and he had got a Chinese secretary at 1,0001-, and an assist ant Chinese secretary at 4001. a year. Dr. Bowring, who was consul at Canton, bad 1,8001. a year and no more (and he was certain that the governor had not ' 1 more to ch ), and war a more able man. Lord PALMERSTON said his hon. and gallant friend war quite mistaken in supposing that the duties of the governor of Hong Kong, as superintendent of trade, were a mere fiction. The duties were very considerable. When the trade with China was thrown open to all persons in this country, instead of being exclusively in the hands of the East India Company, an arrangement was made by which it was settled that there should be three superinten dents of trade; one at 6,000/., one at 4,000/. and one at 2,000!. a-year. That was considered by the East India Company as being proper for the management of the trade with China. When, by an arrangement with the government of China, we obtained possession of the island of Hong-Kong, we made what was thought an econo mical arrangement at that time. We abolished two of the superintendents, and gave to the one that war left only half the salary that war given formerly to the first, and com bined the office with that of the governor of Hong-Kong. It was not fair to compare the duties of the governor of Hong-Kong with those of the governor of p small colony, because hie duties were not confined to admi nistering the government of Hong-Kong, but he was in communication with all the consuls in China, and was charged with) the general conduct of all matters connected with the intercourse with China. He war, in point of fact, plenipotentiary in China, and whenever communications might take piano with the government of China the busi ness would be conducted by the Governor of Hong Kong in bis capacity ofgevernor or superintendent of trade. And when they considered the extent of his duties and the un healthiness of the climate of China and the dearness of everything there, ho did not think the emolu ments too much. The effect of the climate on British constitutions was exceedingly injurious. During the period that he had the honour of conducting the foreign affairs of the country, he had to lament the loss of several promising and deserving officers, who fell victims to the climate of China. The climate of Ilong-Kong was better now ; but he was speaking not only of Hong-Kong, b u t o f Canton, Amoy, and Shanghae . With regard to Oil range of salariis of the inferior officer., he made it his duty to inquire, and he found that the salaries in commercial esta 4,2801., for Polish refugees and distressed Spaniard'. Mr. REPTON objected to the sum of 3,0001., which formed part of 'his vote, for the relief of Polish refugees. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there was a diminution in this vote, and there would be a still further one. Mr. REPTON paid he should move that it be reduced from 3,0001. to 2,0001. Viscount PALMERSTON said he believed this arrange ment bad been made, that no addition should be made to the number receiving this relief—that no new refuge* should be added. These persons came to this cottntry in great distress ; many of them were very deserving. (Hear, hear.) They were dependent for relief on the very small amount doled out to them from this fund. The govern ment of which he was formerly a member had made this arrangement, that those who were on the list should con tinue to receive the allowance as long as they remained here, but that no new name should be put upon the lists. Lord D. STUART said the grant had been originally made, on his motion, in 1836. It was for men whe had fought in the cause of their country, in support of • state of things which this country had sought to uphold, and who, by the vicissitudes of fortune, had been driven here for • shelter. Afterwards the grant was raised from 19,000/. to 15,000/. It was subsequently diminished by the deaths of the parties rtetiving the allowance. In 1817, objection was taken to the grant by the hon. member for Middlesex, now Secretary to the Admiralty. (Hear, hear.) A debate of some length ensued, and it was said by one hon. member that there was nothing to prevent the refugees going hack to their own country. This was not so. The Doles might go back to the Prussian or Austrian territory, but not to the Russian territory and the whole of the recipients of the grant belonged to the Russian territory of Poland. The government at that time agreed to an inquiry into the grant, and two gentlemen were appointed who instituted a very searching inquiry. They recom mended the removal from the list of all who were not inca pacitated from supporting themselves; and the result was a great reduction in the amount of the grant. It was now only 3,0001.—n0t a very large amount. No new pensioner had been added since 1848 ; and the deaths tended conti nually to diminish the grant. It would be a very cruel thing for the house now to withdraw it altogether, and he hoped the bon. gentleman would not press his objection. There had never been any division on this grant. (Hear.) The vote was agreed to. Oa the next vote, 4,469/. for miscellaneous charges for merly on the civil list, Sir J. SHELLEY asked for some explanation of the items. One was • sum of 5001., an annuity granted by King Charles 11. to the ancestor of the late Sir Thomas Clarges, in fee, and charged upon the coal duties. As • committee was now sitting upstairs on the coal duties, he hoped this annuity would be inquired into. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who spoke almost from behind the Speaker's chair, was understood to say that there was a description of the charges printed in the estimates. Mr. MALL referred to the items of 891. paid to the Bishop of Sodor and Mari, to be distributed among the in cumbents and schoolmasters of the Isle of Man, and 92/. to the Bishop of Chester, for stipends of two preachers in Lan• cushier. He wished to ask whether these charges were to continue beyoLd the lifetime of the present recipients. There was another item to which he objected-S;W. to the college of Sc. David's, Lampeter. 11e wished to know whether they were to go on paying these charges from generation to generation, or whether there was any hope of their being wiped out? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a few words in explanation. Mr. IIINDLEY said there was an item in this vote for poor French refugee clergy. Now was it not possible to print the names of the recipients of this charity, so that the house might know whom they were dealing with. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there would be no objection to de that. Mr. BRIGHT said that was precisely the answer the esmnoittee had a right to expect, for the items appeared to be very much the same every year. These poor refugee clergy were no doubt very aged, but they Iliad been aged for a great number of years, and he was quite certain if the house did not look sharp into the matter they would live on for fifty years to come. (A. laugh.) The government ought trom year to year to look over all these small items, and gradually get rider those which a wont of wisdom in our forefathers had created. (Hear, hear.) Mr HUTCHINSON contended that ;the vote for St. Da vid's College, Lampeter, stood upon very much the same footing as the one which was rejected on the previous night, and if the grant to Msynooth ought to be rejected, he could not see how this one could be supported upon principle. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER conceived that there was a wide difference between the two cases. Maynooth bas bet a settled by all the states of the realm; it is • policy which this house has refused to or, rtbrcer or to impair in the course of the present sea-ion. (Ilen, hear.) At the same time, it is impossible not to ace that the tendency of such votes as were given last night is not simply to mires', disapproval of Roman catholic doctrine, but a tendency to shake the general principle that religions endowments ought to be maintained. (Hear, hear.) Now as I believe with try right hon. friend the Secretary t or Ireland that religious endowments are of very great use to a nation, as I should be quite willing to vote, if there were an occasion for it, for grants to Roman catlif•lies, not only with respect to Maynooth, but with respect to other sub- jests—if there were any occasion for it—l certainly do hope the house will not came to the saute cm elusion as the hon. gentleman (Mr. Spool er) opposite. With respect to the vote under discussion, I look upon it as a vote in favour of law and order, and shall therefore car. dially support it, trusting that the house will nut repeat its conduct of last evening towards the Roman catholic, by similar acts of hostility to-night to the presbyterians. Mr. SPOONER would not alter his course, whatever might be the consequences. lle approved of the principle of a state church, but even probable consequences to that church should not deter him from what he considered to he a proper course. Nothing should induce him to give his sanction to a religion which he b.lieved to be contrary to the word of Gad and completely subversive of good govern ment in this country. (Rear, bear.) Ile should ulways vote against Maynooth, and un the present occasion would vote with the noble lord. Mr. CAIRNS objected to the broad question of endow ments being started on such a small and narrow basis. The grant now under discussion was as old as James 1., bad been annually conceded by the Irish parliament, and w as adopted on the union of the two countries. lie had risen merely for the purpose of denying the assumption of the hon. member for Manchester, that the Remain Donum or any other grant could have the effect of "muzzling" the presbyterians of the north of Ireland. Mr. FOX supported the vote, but declined fa r th e pr " . byterians to accept it as a reward fur loyalty. Vctc ior ne vote, their loyalty would still be the same. Mr. HASTIE (Paisley) said that the vote was a very small sum compared to the thousands spent is the southern counties of Ireland to keep the people in order. He t h ea ht certainly vote in favour of it. Mr. MAGUIRE defended the south of Ireland, and said that the committee on crime and outrage had given the bad eminence to the northern provinces. Ile did not mean, however, to taunt the presbyterians on that account. Hay ling complained of the mischief caused by Lord J. Russell's " Durham letter," the hon. member coaeiuded by stating his intention to vote for the grant. Mr. V. SMITH hoped the right hon. gentleman would re-consider his determination to print the names of the recipients of the Poor Clergy Charity. It was only 1,000/. a year, while it was the duty of the Treasury to examine into all the claims, and to see that no fraud was committed upon the public exchequer. Of what use then would this printing of names be ? None whatever. It would only diminish the value of the charity by holding up these un fortunate clergymen to the derision of the house, and he must certainly protest against the step that was about to be taken. Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that printing their names would be holding up the parties to derision, but perhaps as such a proceeding might detract from the charitable character of the vote, it would be as well not to take it. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT said no consideration of delicacy for the persons who were the recipients of the charity ought to aster them from doing their duty to the public, and he should be sorry if this suggestion was not carried out. Ile was quite sure that so far from the parties being derided they would become objects of veneration from their extreme age. (A laugh.) The vote was then agreed to. Upon the question that 1,4601. be voted to defray the ex pense of the Foundlirg Hospital of Dublin, Mr. VANCE complained that the government had made an unfair deduction of 10 per cent. from these votes for the maintenance of the Dublin hospitals, and inasmuch as his hon. colleague had given notice of his intention to move for a committee to inquire into the subject, he hoped the committee would suspend this vote until that motion was disposed of. Mr. WILLIAMS thought the boo. gentleman and his friends would do well to rest contented with the vote CS it stood. There were eight votes he found to these institu tions in Dublin, not one of which bad any claim to the public money. Similar institutions iu London were en tirely supported by voluntary contributions, and if they were to have any inquiry at all it should not be with the view of increasing the votes, but getting rid of them alto gether. (Hear.) After a few words from Col. DONNE, the Tote was agreed to. The following votes were also agreed to : • 10,2901. to defray the expenses of the House of Industry in Dublin. Mr. M. O'CONNELL should vote against the gri.nt. He had never voted for the Maynooth grant, except occe, and that was on the motion of the hon. member for North War wickshire. He believed that his own church could find funds now, as she had found them under the penal laws, and that state connexion was ruin to a chin. ch, and damage to a state. (Hear, hear.) Ho was for " cutting the painter," and thought that every man should pay Lis priest as he paid his doctor. when he wanted him—(laughter)— and your religion would be better looked after. Ho ob jected to misting religion up with politics at all, but he was aware that until you got rid of endowments altogether that was impessible, but that once effected, the business of the country would be better looked after by parliament. Mr. NE W DEOATE who spoke amid loud and repeated cries of " Divide ! " was understood to Boy that he could perceive no change in the feelings of members of the house as to the necessity of religious endowments, either on the one side or the other. The view of the bon member for the West Riding es to political justice, was to degrade those institutions which conduced to peace, order, and the well being of the country. Ho (Mr. Newdegate) had opposed the Maynooth grant because ee believed it did not conduce to that result, but feeling strongly that the Presbyterian grant did, ►e should support it 800/. to defray the expense of the Female Orphan Home in Dublin. 1,350 f. to defray the expense of the Westmoreland Lock limpital in Dublin. Mr. M./tIAIION wished to call attention to the fact that the committee had not divided on the pr,vi..us reli;ious grants passed during the evening relating to the colonies, and by dividing upon this they were carrying out the illus tration of their principle towards Ireland alone. The committee divided— Ayes Noes The vote was then passed, and the house resumed. HACKNEY CARRIAGES BILL. 660/. far the Dublin Lying-in Hospital. 9451. for Stephen's Hospital. 2,2801. for the Fever Hospital, Cork-street. 3001. for the Hospital for Incurables. On the vote for 38,4911. 11s. 2d. for the non-conforming and other dissenting ministers in Ireland, -Sir J. SHELLEY said that, having already expressed his opinion on the subject of these grants, he would content himself on the present occasion by simply moving that this vote be expunged. Mr. BRIGH r said that having been in the north of Ire land some time since he had an opportunity of making in quiries as to the working of these grants, he found that it WAS in many . respects unsatisfactory. He thought it of the greatest importance that complete religious justice should be established between sects in Ireland. (Gear, hear.) But if the government were not prepared to abolish this grant now, he hoped they would say that it would not . be made larger in future, because if the 38,0001. became (0,0001. or more, there would be greater difficulty in deal ing with the question at a future time. (Hear, hear.) This would give considerable satisfaction, because it would show that the olject of the government was to establish re ligious equality in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Lord C. HAMILTON, looking at the question in a merely I secular and economical point of view, claimed the vote of the hon. member on this occasion because more was saved in soldiers and police than the amount of the grant under consideration. (Hear, bear.) Sir W. CLAY regretted to find himself under the neees- Pity of supporting the amendment, in consequence of the Maynooth vote of last night. (Hear, hear.) Sir .1. YOUNG thought that the hon. gentleman laid too much stress en the vote of last night. (Hear, hear.) Ile regretted the decision to which the committee had come, but he regarded it as a warning that ought t o b e avo id e d instead of an example to be followed. (Hear, hear.) He believed that it was only a small minority of the country which desired to see public support withdrawn from all ecclesiastical establishments whatever. (Hear, bear.) He hoped the committee on this occasion would not follow the example of last night. Mr. COBDEN maintained that they could not go on legislating in one spirit for a million of the people of Ireland and in an opposite spirit for four or five millions. (Hear, hear, hear.) He thought it impossible that any one could have sat in that house and ,considered the tendency of recent debates on religious questions, without seeing that they were approaching, or at least making progress, towards a state of things in which, not merely dissenters or Roman catho lies, but all men would be obliged to bring their minds to the consideration of this question— what policy should they pursue in order to do equal justice to all religions ? (Hear, hear.) Now, he must confess for himself that, although he generally acted with gentlemen who were either themselves voluntaries or represented voluntary constituencies, he must confess that he had never —probably it was owing to the training which he re ceived—bad any very strong feeling against church endow ments : he would be a hypocrite if he said the contrary. (Haar, hear.) But he had a very strong conviction that they must do justice in that house to all, parts of the com munity. (Hear, hear.) Now, there were two ways of doing justice to the people of Ireland—two ways, he meant, of doing political justice. Though they might object to legislate on religious matters, if they were in favour of en dowments at all, he thought they must make up their minds to endow all. (Cheers.) That had been very much the case. Little crumbs from the table of the great establish meat had been allowed to fall to the lot of the presby terians, the Roman catholic'', and others. But now it seemed that they were to maintain the privileges of the established church, and that Roman catholies were not to be allowed to participate in endowments. (Hear.) He would on that occasion vote with his hen. friend against this grant for the presbyterians of Ireland ; and seeing that the house would not allow any grant to the Roman catholic. of that country, he would join on every occasion in anything which could tend to bring all to a perfect footing of equality in such matters. (Loud cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL—The boa. member for North War wickshire (Mr. Spooner) stated last night, with regard to one of the divisioas t that he did not very well know what he was voting for. lam afraid that that description would apply not only to the first division which was taken, but also to the second, in which his deliberate purpose was to refuse a sum for the repairs of Maynooth College. (Hear.) I am very mach afraid that the hon. member was not aware of the purport and tendency of the vote which he gave; he may, perhaps, after hearing the speech of the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets, and that of the hon. member who has just spoken—he may now, I say, begin to have some notion of the tendency of his vote. (Ministerial cheers.) 1 must say that I think those hon. gentlemen have exhibited the effect of that vote. The meaning of what was done mast be read by the light, not only of the debate of last night but by a vote which was given • considerable time ago on the question of Maynooth itself, when the hon. gentleman proposed altogether to abolish the Maynooth grant by re pealing the act of parliament which established it. It will be remembered that the house refused to concur with the bon. gentleman, and maintained the act by which Maynooth wsi established. The effect of the hon. gentleman's vote of last night is, I think, very grave. It is this, that the col lege remaining the same, the endowment given by act of parliament remaining the same, the hon. gentleman says that the theological errors of the managers are so great, the doctrines they teach are so dangerous, that they shall not be allowed to have their windows repaired—(laughter) —and if the roof is out of repair the rain and snow shall be allowed to come in upon their beds ; until they adopt better I opinion., they shall not be allowed to live comfortably. It was certainly a very odd vote for this house to come to ; but be it observed it in no way im pairs tho act of parliament by which Maynooth was endowed. It was perhaps, an error, but it certainly could not have been foreseen that the question of necessary repairs would be made an occasion of entering on the whole question of religious endowments. (Hear, , hear.) But, sir, the effect of the vote has been to induce many persons who would not otherwise have ventured on that course of policy, to say that if such is the injustice with which one portion of the people of Ireland are to he treated, it would be best to get rid of religious endow- 1 ments altogether. (lieu, hear.) I must say that I think that is a very precipitate conclusion, and it is one to which I am not only not prepared to come, but which I shall do my best to resist. (" Hear, hear. ") Although it would be unwise to propose in the present year, even if the forms of the house would allow it, any further estimate for the repairs of Maynooth, yet it will be the duty of the government to see in what way provision can be made for that purpose. The general policy of maintaining The house then went into committee on this bill. On the Ist clause, Lord D. ST CART asked his hon. friend who had charge of this bill whether he would proceed with the bill at that hour ? (" Yes," and "Go on.") lie (Lord D. Stuart) had some amendments to propose, and on one of them he should take the sense of the committee. (" Go on.") Well, then, be would proceed to state some objections to the first clause. The noble lord then stated his objection to the power which was given to the Commissi iners of Police on the licensing and inspection of hackney carriages, and that without any power of appe a l, an d contended hat it was never intended to give such judi'ial powers to the Commissioners of Police ; but that their futictionS were to be wholly ministerial. An appeal to Quarter Sessions bad been objected to; and he would, therefore, propose an eppealito a county court, as causing less delay. This he would submit as en amendment to clause 2. Mr. HINDLEY proposed verbal amendments on the clause before the committee. Incidentally he said that in Manchester a reduction of fares had not answered, the cabs not having improved at all, although these had been en increased demand. The circumstances which would operate in London, however, were different; and be hoped that by-end-bye we should have cabs such as ladies might ride in with comfort and decency. But these results ought not to be brought abuat forcibly. Let there be licenses for first and second clam cabs; and let the fares be in the one case Gd., and the other 9d. a mile. (Oh, ob.) M any rate, let the 'sateen he a permissive system. Mr. FITZROY objected that the amendments of the hon. gentleman had not been printed, and could not now be considered; and they were accordingly postponed. Mr. TIIORNELY did not expect first-class cabs for 6d. a mile ; and he would be in favour of a com p et i t i on which woud give the public of different classes an option as to the price of the cab they would ride in. Mr. B CARTEIt spoke in favour of the same sugges tion. lie would like ninepenny cabs. Colonel KNOX thanked the bon. gentleman (Mr. Fitz ray) for the bill. He (Colonel Knox) had gone deeply into the question, and he was sure that the right oil:160e was to have one tariff of fares; and he hoped that this principle would be adhered to. Clause I was then agreed to. On clause 2, Mr. FITZROY moved verbal amendments. Mr. lIINDLEY moved an amendment omitting words which required that cab proprietors should have notice of objections taken by the police comusissionen to cabs, in order that those cabs might be withdrawn, and that the license might net be peremptorily suspended. Mr. FITZROY thought that such a provision would be necessary to prevent arbitrary treatment of cab proprietors. After a few words from Mr. BRADY, The amendment was negatived without a division. On the question that clause 2 stand part of the bill, Lord D. STUART moved the addition of a proviso, that in case of the suspension of a license, there should be a power of appeal from the Commissioner of Police to the Judge of the County Court. Mr. BRADY supported the amendment. Mr. FITZROY thought the County Court Judge was not a proper functionary. He should have no objection that in every cue the commiuioner should report to the Secretary of State the cause of suspension, and if the Secretary of State thought the cause insufficient, he should restore the license to the person to whom it was originally granted. He moved an amendment to that effect. Mr. AGLIONI3Y objected to both the motion and amend ment. It was quite as reasonable to give an appeal to the Lord Chancellor as to the County Court Judge ; and to re port the cause of suspension to a Secretary of State was still more absurd. It was imposing an unnecessary trouble to report the cause of suspension, and it could not be ex pected that a Secretary of State could attend to such a matter. The committee than divided : For the amendment 6 Against it The amendment was therefore lost, and the clause was then agreed to. On clause 7, Mr. WILKINSON objected to the proposed enactment, by which a cabman mad be compelled to convey a farowix miles. Mr. FITZROY said he had originally proposed five miles, the distance named in the present act, but he found that that would not in all cues cover the distance between railway termini and the opposite sido of the metropolis. (Hrar, hear.) The clause was then agreed to. On clause 12, which applied to the superintendents of the stands, Lord D. STUART wished to know how many of these men were intended to be appointed, because he was fearful that the clause might be made the pretext for an increase of the police force and of the police rate. Mr. FITZROY said there were 150 stands. Where practicable, the existing watermen would be made superin tendents, and policemen who had became unable to perform the severer duties of the force might perhaps also be ap pointed. The men would of course be constables, but there could be no reason to apprehend that they would render an increase of the police rate necessary. In answer to Sir J. V. SHELLEY, Mr. FITZROY said he could not say whether the authorities of the City would allow the act to be enforced within their jurisdiction. Lord A. PAGET asked if clause 12 would apply to rail , way termini ? Mr. FITZROY said he did not think it desirable to legislate incidentally on any point in dispute, and therefore he adopted the precise words of the previous act. In answer to further questions, Mr. FITZROY said that communications had taken place with the City authorities on the subject of preserving their exclusive jurisdiction, and he under•tood some amend ments were to be proposed for that purpose ; but of course be should not propose them, having no particular wish to keep up the distinct jurisdictions. (Hear, hear.) Mr. WALPOLE and Mr. PHINN urged the importance of settling the question of railway termini, by declaring that a terminus was a " place of public resort." Mr. JAS. MACGREGOR suggested that an additional clause for that purpose might afterwards be introduced. The clause was then agreed to, as were clauses 13 and 11. On clause 15, Sir J. V. SHELLEY suggested that some provision should be made in this bill to prevent omnibus drivers from pulling up in the middle of the street. It would be a great convenience to" unprotected females" if these drivers were compelled to stop close to the pavement on the off side. I!