The Express. — London, England, 1851-05-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORI/S. --TCESDAT, HAY 20. 'eke Loan Comicscuia took his seat et five o'clock. PETITIONS PRESENTED. PAPAL Aonar.ssine.—By the Earl of CAWDOR, from places in Wales; the Earl o f ENNISKILLEN, from stye ral place. in Ireland; the Earl of HARROWSY, hem Otter St. Mary and various other places ; and the Earl of NAKEWOOD, from Leeds ; stainst papal egression. E D UCATION IN 'UPLAND.— y the Earl of ENNIS KILLEN, front • place in Tyrone ; sad Lord LAKES BOROUGH, from Dau.v.al ; praying he • share in tke money granted for the poirposee of edocaties. CRIMINAL JUSTICE IMPROVEMENT AND PRE VENTION OF OFFENCES BILLS. Lord CAMPBELL brought up the report of the select committee. and moved the order of the day that these bills should pant through a committee of the house. They now extended to Ireland, sod he had received • suggestion from Lord Chicf Justice Clerk that they should also include Scotland. A separate bill, however, would he more de sirable ; and he would either bring it in. or assist the Lai Advocate in passing such a measure, if he would bring I forward. The bills then severally pawed through committee, MK were reported to the house. TILE CAPE OF GOOD HOPE. Lord WIIAIINCLIFFE wished to put a question to IS molar earl, the Secretary fur the Colonies. On the IGth of April List, • gentleman who took • great interest in the affairs of the Cape of thud Hope, and acted as the repre sentative of the colonists in this country, brought forward a motion for • commission to la sent to that colony. The government met the motion of Mr. Adderley by a vtatcmcut that they obj, cull to a erlannliPaioll, as btilli( calculated to embarrass the local goverunient, hut they would agree to the appeintne•ut of a committee of the House of Commons, with a view to inquire into the state of the colony. A com mittee was ateordioaly appointed, which was not named. k owee_ r. until the 4th of this month, and it had not yet sat. Teat committee, he nntlerstosl, hail the power of (I.:- Wrinining no the appointment of • commission, if they should think such a course desirable. It appeared, never theirs., Cut a commission hail recently been appointed, , with the Governor of the Cape at its head, to pursue scene Inquiry on the spot. Under these eireuttraancts, he wished to keow the motive+ which had inilueed the government to appoint such eccuni-sion at the present time, what it. power. were to be, Rad Use especial object,. it was to have la view ? Earl GREY said that the statement of his noVe friend was resrly see irate. It wit- true that a commis...not of in quiry was at first pmpeeil to be sent out to the Cape, and it was objected to by the got rninent, on the ground that the appointment of a commission of that description mould interfere with the function', of the government arl mini-tering the affair. of that colony; and also that the general state of circumstances in the colony had more than use.• been the object of inquiry, and further investigation on that subject was not required. But, us the war still continued, and parliament might be applied to (or the grant of • sum of matey, her Majesty's government had thought it desirable to appoint a commission of the House of Common, in order to entsfy them of the aweemity of such grant. Although he still c0ati........ to think that the appointment of such a commission of inquiry as was sug goned into the affairs of the Cape would be attended with extreme inconvenienee, he also thought—and it was the opinion of his colleagues nod himself at that time — that none further areotanre was required by Sir 11. South under existing circumstances. Those of their lord ship+ who had maid attention to this subject would be aware that when Sir Henry l'ottinger was sent out to the (7al - a of Good Hope, at the end of 1 , 416, besides his ruin miecion as governor, ha roar tie. hearer of a separate eons rni-sion, as her Majesty's vennii.sioner for the adjudinent of tie. affairs of the herder couut ries, soil which pointed cut one of the nem important duties he would have to perform, Mill for which he was inv.sted with a certain di-- gn of authority with the people with whom h.• would have to tea in that capacity. When he was promoted to another situation, mid went to India, Sir Harry Smith, on wsiting to the government the Cape, was also ap -luienol conainisvioner for the a ff airs of the (order countries. t se. now 'mended to appoint two aoidant commissioners ter Sir 11. Smith, for the management of this same buria ls. It was not, strictly speaking, a cillouivion Of in quiry, and 110 did not believe that inquiry would throw tooth Bahl on the actual condstion of the affairs OA the birders id th.• colony, or OA the colony itvelf; neither did he think that an inquiry would bad to any +home of iews as to the policy that ought to be adopt. .. That policy had barn Ca. Nay oitiselered, and tie views of different per non by whom it Kul hien ceinider. il agreed in a great cle gne--and most important points they hail entirely ago ed. Ile ire had laa n Made or two gentlemen who had greatly distinguished thine...lves in the late K aatir war, who Anil sab....pwritly lelt the colony without any inten tion of returning to it, and who now, from a sense of public duty, awl at great inneaveniume to themselves, had or eepird the °Hire of assistant commie , ' rr. One of these gi Slajor Hogg, AIM wan at the time • captain in the ith Dragoons, was entrustrit by Sir 11. Puttinger wills the duty of raising levies, principally from the Hottentot in- Isellitents, and commanding them during the war, and he so mach influence with them as to have lain uhln to Pair • large body of men. The other gentleman was Mr. Owen, who went to thi• colony a young man, after having taken a degree at Oxford, and who had resided for some time there. Ile spoke the Leigulige and hail 111., n employed fur •oule time in the colony. He returned ta. this country is May, and had reerived the highest testi monials from Sir IL Putting. r unit Sir Harry Smith. Ile leaped thew gentlemen would he aide to ruder great Taco to Sir 11. Smith. (Hear, Isla.) lord M HAIINCLIFFE asked if the noble earl would sohji et to lay on the table a ropy of the commission Lad GREY would rather not do so, just at this men' nt. Their lordship. were aware that he had Int sec time in placing before them the papers which be heal received from the Cape - (hear, hear)—and in the roues et • few days he prs.posed to lay 011 the table a eon tinuatien of the account of the transactions at the Cape. (11e.ir, hear.) Thr Earl of ELLEN nonotour thought if it wan desir able to gise Sir H. Smith any assistance, st would have been lair to have si in him re soldiers than two totillnis 'lnnen,. No me- eiculil look at hi. meition without great apprehena:vm, fur it was evidently one of cousiderable danver• Earl fillEY said the noble earl seemed not to have reed the papers on tht it for table. or he would have actin that arm after the int. Iligeore of the toutlon.A a t th e eunsi.krahle enforeernenui were sent out to Sir it, Smith, and tothrrs wen: now in pn•paration, which would soon It AI, this country to join him. The Earl of NELKSIIOItOI'6II knew something of the emilnet of political agents; and he thought that if it was neseemry for Sir 11. Smith to rer..ive the opinions of the gentlemen to whom the aide earl bad referred before he arid, it would place him in a position of still greater daimer than he had liven in before. Earl OItKY .aid the platens, n he hail referred to were wit to be ...minted with Sir 11. Smith an equal., but thi y were to be awi.tant COMMiniOUCI., di.tinctly acting under hi. authority. RKOISTRATION OF ASSI'IIANCES BILL. Lord I'AMPRELL brought up the report, with amend ments, on the, bill The committee hail be, n attended by many law lord. and also by • numerous body of lay poem. They had received several the from attorneys, and amongst others, one from attorneys of London, which stated that the purchasers of estates often hot them in consequence of bed titles. Now, the enormous expense and trouble arising front the ezisting state of the law was sought to he re moved by this measure. Infinite care had been taken in preparing the bill, and their lordships might place the greatest confidence in it. accuracy. Ile hoped the time was now come when this gnat measure would pass into a law. It WAS most violently opposed now, as it hail been twenty years ago, by the attorneys, who thought that it would diminish their business. lie hewed, however, that this was an error ; for when convey. awing was simplified and the expense learned, he had no doubt that the business in this branch of the profession would be greatly increased. (Hear, hear.) Ile had no doubt that the attorneys would use all their influence against the bill in the other house of parliament, where, no doubt, from their connexion with many of the members, they bad great influence. He bolas' , however, that their lonlships would show their approval of the measure by the unanimity with which they stave it their support. (Hear, hear.) Lord CULVIIESTEII supported the bill. Lord IIIiALIHONT thought this measure would be a great boon to the country. As to the expense, he believed that a central registration would be ka eapensive than local system. The motion was then agreed to. On the motion that the l'nqierty Tat Bill be committed, The Karl of ELIA:NM/HOUGH said he wished to have an explanation of the new clause referring to the occupiers of land. fly that clause the expenditure of the year was to go against the profits in the same year, but these were many Cases in which the pro fi ts on expenditure might not be realised till two or three years after the expenditure. Again, • farmer might fume his lased in one year and antici pate the profits of a siteeeeding year. He might in one year purchase a large quantity of manure, and might not realise any profit from it for two or three years after. What he wanted to know was, how the eornmiasioners were to act in these eases? Were they to take an average of years or were they to endeavour to ascertain that which was unascertainable—namely, whether in one particular year a farmer had made prohts equal to the sum at which he was armed ? The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the objections stated by the noble earl would apply to every inquiry under this art. The emmlosissals load slaty endeavour to do justice in each ewe, ad ohs Mums bad as good • thane* of having jumble dam Ulm as the trackman. The bill then pasted tbsaasti musittee. The house a4poimed leoiray after 6 o'clock. HOURS OF COMMONS.—TonaDaY, MAT 20. Tbei Stamm" took the chair ate ealiwk. PRIVATE SUSU MU. The East Lancashire Railway DOI was read a third time. The following hills were leadierel : ]yam Im provement ; Bisekben• Others% awl Woe York shire Railway ; Memslwater sad lialgoeili lislandow Rail way ; Dlslusesbely Torapikit Roads ; Thames IRONS Dark and Railway ; iravenry Vslity Railway ; Wenington sad Altrincham Jumada" Railway ; Bala. PUBLIC BUSINESS. ROYAL ASSENT. The Y somas Vegas appeared at the table and animonsd the house to attend the bar of the Howse of Lads ill brat the Royal Assent given by ..omission to aerersl bay for which use Lords' report. NEW WRIT. On the motion of M.r. HATTIE, a new writ was Wag THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 21, 1851. ter the elision eta sew member for the borough of Ear wish, in the MN et Mr. Prinsep, unseated. NOT IRI SH P 0111(0TION. • OOR. Mr. REYNOLDS pa motile that on Thursday, the sth of June, he would move at an Walesa be present ed to her Majesty graying that she would appoint a commission to inquire into and report upon the administration of the laws for the relief of the destitute poor in Munster sag Connaught. THE BALLOT. Mr. H. BERKELEY postponed hie motion on this sub= )set till the hth of Jane. ADMISSION TO THE UNIVERSITIES. Mr. HEYWOOD gave notice that on the sth of June he would make a motion with regard to the qualifications for Siatinits to the univetsities of Oxford and Cambridge. THE ADJOURNMENT. Major BERESFORD rose, in pursuance of notice, to move that the house should, at its rising, adjourn till Thanday. The house had adjourned for the three last and he saw no mason why it should not do so again. =eking at the paper he saw no business of importance, sal iris only order of the day was the Derby. (Laughter.) that the house would adjourn, not only fur its ma mike, but for the sake of its officers; and an additional mesa for doing so was to be found in the fact that her Majesty's birthday fell this year on a Saturday, and that they would thus be deprived of the usual holiday on that account. (Laughter.) On the question being put, Mr. HL - ME said he thought it would be a great derelic tion of duty to accede to the motion. (Cries of Olt, oh.") His opposition for the last two years had not been attended with success. (Hear, hear.) But they hail something novel this year. It was too much that everything should be expected to give place to horse•racing and horsemen. (Laughter.) Since last year the horsemen had token Kensington Gardens, and therefore what was a reasonable demand last year might be an unreasonable one this year. (Laughter.) Ile wanted tomorrow, for the purpose of ascertaining from the First Commissioner of NVoods and Forests who were the applicants to him fur the di.continii ance of the state of things which had existed in Kensington Gardens for a century. He wished to know whether the noble lord had made the dosage of his own accord, or whe ther R was the result of a petition from the equestrians themselves. Ile would nut put the house to the trouble of dividing—(hear, hear.).--but he must say, that though he had no objection to the horsemen going to the Derby, he strongly ohjecto.l to their running to Kensington Gardens. Sir J. l'A I SGTON wished, in the spirit of fairness and just-ie., and as one of the public, to tender his thanks to the noble lord for the accommodation which he had extended to those who, like the hon. member for Montrose, were fond of taking exercise on horseback. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) If the hon. member would ride in Kensington Gardens, he would find that the indulgence was not at tended with the slightest income Wince to those who walked there. Hundreds of acres remained unencroached upon. (Hear, hear.) Mr. W. I'ATTEN wished to bear similar testimony, and to add that those who were thus accommodated were much more numerous than those sum could possibly be incom moded. The indulgence was only to last incl year. Lord SEYNIOUIt said there was only one point on which he wished to set the hon. member for Montrose • right. The hon. member said " See how many persons you exclude fru:u these gardens." Nuw, in the memorial which the lion. member forwarded to him, the object of which was to keep the gardens closed, the great argument urged against the opening of them was, that it would attract a crowd of spectators, and the memorial went on to say It will be impossible then to shut out the great public from the amusement of witnessing the display of horses soil horsemanship which is so interesting to our countrymen." (Laughter.) 'the House of Commons, which represented the great public, was called upon to take their part against the honourable member, who was unfortunately in this case the represen tative of the aristocracy of Bayswater. (Laughter.) The hon. member had told the house that this was nn in novation. Why, what had he been doing all his life but making and encouraging innovation*? (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) Sir E. N. BUXTON wished to bear his testimony as one who was in the habit of walking awl riding in Hyde l'ark, to the great improvement which had kit n made. The real truth was, that his hon. friend (Mr. Hume) was a sup porter of a great monopoly. Certain persmie who lived in the neighbourhoed of Kensington had wished to make the gardens their private property; and the hon. member fur Montrose had the audatity— ,laughter)—to propose that a ride should be made through Hyde Park, where there were twenty times as many pedestrians as in Kensington Oardens. (Laughter.) The motion was then agreed to. POOR RELIEF (IRELAND). Mr. REYNOLDS, pursuant to notice, begged to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, whether he was aware that the number of inmates in the Ennis, Union Workhouse, county of Clare, the week ending the 3rd day of May instant was 915, and the &nth+ during that week a.nounted w RI, and that the workhouse was so overcrowded, that several appli cant/4 were refused admission. Sir W. SOMERVILLE replied that the hon. gentleman had correctly stated the number of deaths during the week ending the ard of May, in the Ennis workhouse, but he had greatly mistaken the number of inmates, which, instead of being 918, as the hon. gentleman stateti, had been in the RAMC week 4,782, and the latest report he had seen from that workhorse gave an elms of 123 is the number of in mates. DESTITUTION IN THE ISLANDS OF SCOTLIND the Ter agent tire* 0.146. 11 •4 110 . 000 acawida had laim E'lla I 12,000 free people had been ' 11l It an uth Dieman in % oosmoureee's ECM. The The criminal ?ovulation had incecased, so that in 1857, according to the eon- I it a peered that two-thirds of the Whole popula- ZAeon . These fact* bore out the lint allegation of the petitioners, that the evils resulting from transportation to the colony were 'waling. He would next time Ile the second allegation, that the lieutenant-governor, ffir W. Denison, did announce to the colonists, on the part of elhe weeleamt, tb,t tr_ansertation to Van Diemen's Lai be MIONIMIMIL Transportation thither was raspouded for are pus, sad on the 30th September, 1846, the noble lord the Candid Secretary transmitted to Sir W. Denison his appointment as lientenant.goventor, with a letter of instruction, leaving two questions for conside ration, whether transportation should be resumed at all, and, if at all, whether any more male convicts should be sent to Van Diemen's Land. Sir W. 1 Denison arrived at the beginning of 1547, and issued a circular to the magistrates to ascertain the opinions of the colonists. The colonists, en moue answered the circular by declaring that transportation should altogether cease. A public meeting, the largest ever held in the colony, was held on the 6th May, 1847 ; petitions to her Majesty and to both houses of parliament were agreed to, praying that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should be immediately abolished; each ofthese petitions was signed by above 5,000 free colonists. At the same time 726 parents, representing at least 3,500 souls, addressed her Majesty on behalf of their children, stating that no vigilance nor care ful instruction could counteract the mischievous and con taminating influence of convict example. In transmitting these addresses to Lord Grey, Sir W. Denison assured the noble lord that the feeling of the great majority of tho community was in favour of the cessation of transportation. Having thus ascertained the feelings of the colony Sir Wil liam Denison, on opening the legielative council on the 20th July, 1847, said, " I take the earliest opportunity of laying before you the decision of her Majesty's government, that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should slot be resumed at the expiration of the two years for which it has already been decided that it should be discontinued. her Majesty's go vernment, in coming to this determination, has acted in ac cordance with the expressed wishes of a large portion of the free inhabitants of the colony; " and Sir William Denison concluded his address by saying that he trusted they would not be " cast down should a period of adversity and distress follow the change which they had so ardently desired." Great was the joy of the inhabitants of Van Diemen's Land on receiving this announcement. The gentlemen most active in getting up the meeting and petitions against transportation wrote to Lord Grey thanking him for antici pating their praying, and declaring that they were convinced that " to no one could the best interests of the colony, moral or political, be more safely entrusted than to the noble lord." That Sir William Denison considered that he had pledged the faith of the imperial government was proved by his despatch of August, 1817, in which he declared to the Colonial Secretary that any attempt to revive trans portation to the colony in any form would be regarded by the coloniste as a breach of taith and that, under all the circumstances, it would be desirable to carry out fully the abolition of transportation thither. This despatch (said Sir William Moleeworth) proved that Sir Mr. Denison did consider that he had pledged the imperial faith to the abolition of transportation to an Diemen's Land. Now I have Wan' rumours of iwinuations to the effect that Sir William Denison was not authorised to give that pledge; sad it is reported that the noble lord the Secretary of State be the colonies has iu another place laid the grounds for such insinuations, by quoting an isolated extract from a letter written by the right hon. baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Ido not know whether such quibbles will he repeated tonight; if they arc I shall have an opportunity to answer them in my reply. For the present, I challenge the hon. gentleman the Under Secre tary of State for the Colonies to prove that Sir William Denison exceeded his authority. if Sir Wm. Denison did exceed his authority, it was the duty of the Colonial-office to have publicly disavowed him, awl to have reprimanded, or even recall,) him, for haver; pledged the imperial With to a promise which was not to be performed. But nothing of the kind was done. It was first in his despatch of the 20th August, 1011, that Sir W. Denison informed the Colonial °film that he had announced the abolition of transportation to Van Diemen's Land, and that to revive that system in any form would be a breach of faith. This despatch was received at the Colonial-office un the sth Feb., 1818. Its receipt was acknowledged on the 27th April, 1548. Then, if ever, was the time when the Colonial-office ought to have publicly disowned the proceeding, of Sir Wm. Denison, and reprimanded him if he had exceeded his authority. The Colonial-office did nothing of the kind, but merely acknow ledged the valuable information contained in Sir Win. Deni son'. despatch. 1 beg the house to observe, that on the same occasion Lord Orel announced that he intended to resume transportation to Van Dienseies Land, and thus to do the very thing that his governor bad promised that the noble , lord should not do. Theretore, on making this announe'- ment, the time it ever was some when Lord Grey should, if he could, have disavowed the proceedings of his governor. For by not disavowing them, the noble lord extetwil him self to a charge of breach of faith treat which he could only vindicate himself by proving that he had publicly dis avowed his governor. For it is an acknowledged rule of governmeat, without which, iu fact, no government could be carried on, that the acts of an inferior officer must lee held to be done with the sanction of his superior officer, and to be the acts of the superior officer, unless the superior officer publicly disavow those acts as soon as they come to his knowledge. It follow., therefore, that the colouial office did not disavow the proceedings of Sir William Denison, because it - not able so to do with . _ spore s It. reply to Mr. Cowa's, Sir G. GREY said that, in consequence of represen tations made to him of great destitution existing in these islands in the early . part of the year, Sir John I.ll'Ned undertook to visit that district. lie did so, and bad been occupied for some time in a tour of inspection ; and, having returned, 1w war now preparing a report, which he (Sir G. Grey) expected soon to receive from him. Sir John M'Seil had, however, given him no intinustion that he had received any evidence of persons hasise.: died of starvation. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the actual state of the district he would rather nut express any opinion until he saw the report. MURDER I/E A BRITISH OFFICER AT Al/EN. Viscount MAHON asked it government had received in formation of the murder of a British officer at Aden, and more recently of an attack made upon another officer, evi dently with the intention of murdering him ? Mr. J. WILSON said it wan quite true that information bed been reeviv.l by the mail of last month of the murder of an officer at Aden, and the last mail contained an account of another attack ou a British officer there ' • but the circum stances attending that attack were not such as to induce Cie authorities or the government to attach any political im portance to it. The facts, as stated, were that an officer, Mr. Delieer,while riding out on horseback in the outer fort near the Turkish wall, on the afternoon named, being at the time not in regimentals, but private clothes, was beckoned to by an Arab. Supposing the man wanted to speak to him, he pulled up his horse, when the Arab approached and attacked him with a crease which bad been conceal.' about his person. Mr. 1) liner was die.- mounted and a desperate condict ensued, which ended in Ow death of the Arab, who was cut down, and afterward., Ma body WAS brought into the camp and gihbetted. It was oanliory to the regulations for any Arab to cuter the fort nomad. and there wadno doubt that the weapon was cons IMMei when he came in. As he had said, there was MD fur attaching any political motive to the act, there wan every reason to believe had resulted from notigions fanaticism. TRANSPORTATION TO VAN DIEMEN'S LAND. Sir W. MOLESWOItTiI, in bringing forward his motion for an address on this subject, said have lately pre sented to the house two important petitions for the aboli tion of transportation to Van Diemen 's Laud. They were unanimously agreed to at uurnerously attended public meet ings, which were held last year in the northern, southern, and central districts of that island. Similar petitions have been presented to the other house of parliament, and similar ones have been addressed to her Majesty the Queen. The statements contained in these petitions were of so grave and serious a description, and rested upon such high and trust worthy authority, that I felt it my dutto move that these have petitions, and all similar ones, which been presented since the year 1838, should be printed, in order that I might bring their contents under the consideration of the house. I find that these petitions have been most numerously and re spectably signed,—for instance, by the Bishop of Tasmania, by the Archdeacon of Launceston and Hobart Town, by the majority of the clergy of the Church of England, of the ministers of the Wesleyan. preebyterian, baptist, sod nide peneleat denominations, the magistracy, the gentry, the merchants, tradesmen, mechanics, fathers and mothers of was _ cote so consistently truth. Aud 1 must obserre that the colonial office has ex pressed emphatic approval of the general c nehiet of Sir William Denison, and in a despatch dated April 28, 1819, assured hien that his administration had been such as to merit her Majesty's high approbation." Such high appro bation cannot be reconciled with the sappersition that Sir William Denison had committed so grave a blunder as to pledge the imperial faith to the abolition of transportation without authority to do so. I think these faets fully bear out the ',omit allegation of the bishop, the clergy, and the free colonists of Tasmania, that their governor did pledge the imperial faith to the abolition of transportation to Van Dismen's Land. I now come to the third allegation that up to the present moment this promise has not been Walled. and that its non-fulfilment is a direct breach of faith derogatory to the honour of the British nation, and 'deviated to weaken, if not to destroy, the feelings of con- McGee and attachment which Van Diemen's Land has hitherto entertained towards the imperial government. The first and meat flagrant attempt at a breach of faith occurred about the close of the year 1847. It was resisted and de feated by Sir William Denham. I wiU, however, describe this attempt. There was in New South Wales a class of wwivicts " worse (according to Sir William Denison) than the worst of those on Northlk Island." Now everyone Whose painful duty it has been to make himself acquainted with the state of Norfolk Island was wont to eon skier that the worst convicts there were the foulest and most loathsome fiends of the human race; in animate demons for whom even Dante could have hand no abyss low euough in his hell of horrors. What, then, must have been these worse devils of New South Wales ? The Colonial-office ou the 4th May, 1817, ordered them to be transported to Van Diemen's Lind. This order was issued only three months after the day (eltli Feb., 1817), on which Lord Grey wrote to Sir William Denison that it was not the intention of her :Majesty's go verment that trausportation to Van Iliemen's Land should M resumed. When the order of the Colonial-office to trans port to Van Diemen's Land the doubly and trebly convicted wonviets of New South Wales because known, the inhabit ants of Van Diemen's Land were horror-stricken ; u public wonting was held, two memorials were addressed to the Queen signed by. 5,131 persons, complaining of a manifest lotanch of faith, and praying that the order in question might be revoked. In transmitting these memorials Sir William Denison recommended the prayer of the petitioners to the favourable consideration of the noble lord, the Secretary of Mate fur the Colonies; and in the same despatch, dated December, 1317, Sir William Denison made the just remark that the colonists would complain of a breach of faith towards them .in promising that no more convicts should be sent to the colony, whilst, at the same time, a number of the worst description were poured upon them. Ultimately Sir William Denison maintained faith in this instance by disobeying the orders of the Colo nial-otfice and not transporting the convicts from New South Wales to Van Diemen's Land. The neat attempt at a breach of faith was more successful. In a despate't to which I have already referred, dated April 27, 18th Lord Grey announced his determination to resume trans portation to Van Diemen's Land in the form of the ticket-of-leave-system. Now, the ticket-of leave system doe, not necessarily herd convicts t og ether as tae the - families, and in short bp , almost every me of note PM system nor does it isolate convict, as and respectability among the free colonists of Van Die. was the case under the best form of the assignment men's Land. All these petitioners allege " that accumulated system ; but it leaves the convict to a considerable and appalling evils—moral, political, and social—have re- extent at liberty to associate with those persons stilted hum transportation to Van Diemen'. Land," that whom he likes or who will associate with him. the exinence of such evils have been admitted to the fullest Unfortunately, however, in Van Diemen's Land the Fer niest% her Majesty's ministers, and the free colonists sons with whom the ticket of leave convict can associate Are of V 's Laud have repeatedly petitioned the Queen chiefly ticket of leave men or persons who have been con tend t that transportation to their colony should vino, tint, because the felonry, as they are called, celesti al. mod for ever. Every one of these petitioners tate the majority of the poputation ; secondly, because the emelt that on the 20th July, 1847, their governor, Sir free settler will not associate with the felonry, whom they William Denison did announce, in the name of her Ma- despise as a Pariah caste, with feelings similar to, but more in jesty's government, to the Legislative Council of Van Die- tense, than those of the Americans towards the negro. Now men's Land, that the wishes of the colonists were to be the invariable consequence of the association of convicts is implied with, and transportation was to be abolish e d, to harden the corrupt in corruption, and to lead back to They also state that notwithstanding this announcement crime those who have been partially reformed; therefore, transportation has been continued up to the present if convicts be rent in crowds to a penal colony, it matters mummati and the bishop, the clergy, and all the free role- little to the colony, as far as morality is concerned, what disks cf immune declare that " the non-fulfilment of this form of transportation be adopted, provided it be not the premiss is a breach of faith, derogatory to the honour worst form of the gang system. This was the opinion of the British nation, and calculated to weaken, if not to of the transportation committee. It was also the opinion the feelings o f wittidenec an d attachment w hi c h of Sir William Denison, who said, with regard to exiles Vaa • n's Land has hitherto entertained towards the from Pentonville (who are supposed to be the best docrip imperial government." (Hear, hear.)_ They solemnly pro. Lion of convicts), their moral cond uc t will not be much test against this breach of faith. They indignantly con. better than that of other convicts, and will be just as likely tradiet a statement, said to have been made last year by a to taint the whole community. On the sth of February, noble earl in another place, to the effect, that they had be. 1847, Lord Grey wrote to inform Sr William Denison come lees averse to transportation than they were in 1846. that "it was not the intention of her Majesty's They mare the house that they are still utterly hostile to government that transportation to Van Diemen's L an d the reception of convict. un d er any rotcm. Th e y, th ere - should be resumed. Some time afterwards Lord hoe, claim the fulfilment of the imperial promise, and Grey changed his mind, and, disregang the pray the house to enforce the performance of that promise which he knew had been made by Sir William as speedily as possible. They have also addressed her the noble lord, 011 the 27th April, ll 1848, wrote, as I have Majesty for the abolition of transportation to Van Diemen's already said, a despatch 'anemone that exiles and ticket. Land. The hon. member then went OR to state the grounds of-leave convicts, after their punishment in Pentonville, on which these petitioners rested their allegations, and on Gibraltar, and elsewhere, were to be transpo rted aollectively which he asked the house to most to motion. In 1847 to Van Diemen", Land. This de t ; a :Mwas laid on the a committee of the house was appointed to inquire into the table of the Legislative Council of the colony on the 12th question of transportation, and they agreed that am evils September, 1848. From that period up to the present arising ham the • of a l arge num b er cinem a moment there has been a series of public meetings, ad. and the disproportion o Use sexes, were of the most appall. dresses to her Majesty, petitions to both houses of win ing kind, and seek as outweighed all lucrative gain to the molt, gemoriais to the Colonial-office, memorials to the colonists ; and they therefore recommended that colonla governor, and proton and remonstelnees against non to Van Diemsa's Load sad to New South Wales should transportation, showing a ttnennaoso, energetic, and discontinued as soon as peen . Tom the you 1840 to dogged determination to •sel the Colonial-office to beep faith by discontinuing transportation. The bon. baronet at some length enumerated the varioas addremes, protests, and appeals, mode to the Queen, to both houses of parliament, and to the lieutenant-ge -1 venter, by the leatslative council, by the magistrates, bythe I inh►bitants, and the women of the colony. The Colonial Secretary had stated that the government thought it necessary to make arrangements to send free emigrants to neutralise the convict population ; but the free emi grants amounted to only one-fourth of the convicts. In 1850, said the hon. member, an event occurred which doubled the excitement in Van Diemen's Laud against e--- transportation. It was the arrival at Ilubart Town of the ship Neptune with its cargo of convicts, which the colony of the Cape had rejected. This event produced the deepest indignation amongst the colonists of Van Dienten's Land. They looked upon it as an insult as well as an injury, They bad heard of the circular which had been issued by the Colonial-office 7th August, 1848, to the Cape of Good llope, New South Wake, and the other Australian colonies, with the exception of Van Diemen's Land. In that circular the Colonial-office had laid down the rule that no convicts were to be transported to any one of those colonies without the consent rat their inhabitants. Van Diemen's Land had been excepted from that rule, on the special plea that it was a penal colony. Its inhabitants held that plea to be a most unjust and tyrannical one; for they argued that the only difference between their colony and New South Wales had been occasioned by is breach of faith on the part of the Colonial-office in not fulfilling the promise to abolish transportation; and that, if that promise had been fulfilled, transportation could not have been re• mused in opposition to their wishes without a viola tion of the rule laid down by the Colonial-office. The arrival of the Neptune showed them how successfully the colony of the Cape had resisted an attempt to violate that rule and gave them ocular demonstration of two important facts—first, that it was the deliberate inten tion of the Colonial-office to make their colony a huge cess pool, in which all the criminal filth of the British empire wets to be accumulated ; secondly, that it was in the power of the people of a colony by combinating vigour and self reliance to defeat the intentions of the Colonial-office, and to compel it to keep faith. I am convinced that the arrisal of the Neptune will hereafter be a memorable epoch in the history of the abolition of transportation to Van Diemen's Lend. The free colonists immediately protested aeninst the landing of the cons hes from that ship. 'They have made similar protests' on the arrival of every sitheequent convict ship, and with every protest their anger was increased, till their *reel was incensed to the highest degree by the arrival of the report of a speech said to have been delivered last year by the noble lord the Secretary of State for the Colonies in another place. In that speech the noble lord was reported to have expressed himself to the effect that the imperial government had created the colony of Van Diemen's Land fur convicts, that the free settlers had established themselves there with their eyes open to the present state of things, and had no right to complain. At all their public meetings they have denied the accuracy of that statement •, they said that they haul emigrated to Van Diemen's Land before it had been made the sole penal whiny of Englund; that the imperial government had encouraged them to emigrete, and sold them lands, and by so doing it had entered into a tacit com pact with them that it would not so abuse its power of transportation as to drive out the free inhabitante and render the possession of their lambs intolerable. In the same speech the noble earl was reported to have said that the free colonists had become less :averse to transporta tion than they were in 1847. They has e flatly enntradieted the liable earl; they asserted that the noble lord, like his preflecesor, Lord Stanky, was ignorant of the state of the colony, that living on the opposite of the globe, he was liable to be misinformed by officials, who hare a deep pecu niary interest in the continuance of transportation, whiles( salaries depended upon upholding transportition, and who boldly invented and repeated fictions, knowing almost a veer must elapse before they could be contradicted. Sir, a.. 1 have already said. the bishop, the clergy, and the free colonists of Tasmania, have declared, in con tradiction of the statement of Lord Grey, that they arc utterly hosti:e to receiving convicts under ally system; and with the view of proving Lord Grey's assertion to be erroneous, in each of the three districts of the colony large public meetings were held lent autumn. First, on the 9th August last, in the northern district ; from this meeting I have presented this year a petition with 1,519 signatures, including those of the Bishop of Tasmania and the Arch deacon of Launceston. Secondly, on the 12th September, a meeting was held in the south district, from which I have presented this year a petition with 2,625 signatures. 'Thirdly, on the 17th September, a meeting was held in the central district, from which a memorial was addressed to Earl Grey. At one of these meetings Mr. Weston, a justice of the peace, a well known and respectable gentleman. one of the oldest settlers in Van Diemen's Land, moved a resolution contradicting the state ment that they had beeeine reconciled to transportation. In so doing he drew, amidst the cheers of the meeting, a strik ieg picture of the social state of the colony. lie spoke to this elL'et I think, that generally noble lords and English gentlemen know nothing about the state of our colony. It has occurred to me that if they could have the subject practically elucidated to them in their own persons and families, they nould immediately understand why we are so utterly hostile to receiving consists under ally system. Were I in England and had a talk with any Engles!' gentleman about transportation to Von Diemen's Laid, I would endeavour to make hint realise our condition by placing himself and family in a position similar to that of respectable funnies in this colony. I would say to him allow me to propose that you should remove your family from Belgravia to the worst part of St. Giles, where thieves, burglars, prostitutes, and all kind., of infamous characters abound. You shall have a cuntmodiousllolM, comfortable carriages, plenty of servants, a governess for your deughters, a tutor fur your sons, and a secretary for yourself, but you must select every one of your attendants front the popula tion of St. Giles. Then the lowest prostitutes would be your housemaids and nurserymaids—from the flesh women you might select your ladies' maids—a cast-off mistress would be an accomplished governess for your daughters— you might fill your pantry and your stables with burglars, thieves. and pickpockets —a Greek, well versed iu all the art. and vices of Greece, would be ready to accept the office of tutor to your sons—and you might complete your establishment with a secretary so skilful as t.) save you the trouble of writing your name to a cheque—and then you would have a tip-top establishment alter the fashion of Van Diernen's Land. (Laughter and cheers.) I think, said Mr. Weston, English gentlemen would look rather amued at such a proposal, and that a slight taste of trans portation would destroy their taste for transportation." I entreat hon. members to endeavour to place themselves mentally in the position of Mr. Weston before they give their vote to-night, and they will well understand why the bishop, the clergy, the fathers and mothers of fa- milics in Van Diemen's Land are so utterly hos tile to tho continuance of transportation to that colony. Front these meetings there emanated petitions to the other house of parliament, and addresses to the Queen. I began by stating to the house the contents of those petitions, and the weave and serious allegations which they contained, and which 1 have endeavoured to substantiate; l will only there fore call the attention of the house to two addresses to the Queen, which are not contained in the papers on the table of the house—one signed by the wife of the Bishop of Tasmania, and 1,400 women of Van Diemen's L 2114. They appealed as wives, mother., and daught ers , t o h er 31ajesty s maternal sympathy, seedier, "That in the course of the last ten years 30,000 prisoners had been boded in the colony, which contained 20,000 young persons, the greater portion of whom were under fourteen years of age." The other address was from the bishop, arch deacons and clergymen of the United Church of England and Ireland in Tasmania. 'this deserves the especial atten tion of the house for the noble lord relied mainly on the clergy to_give efficacy to this sheltie of transportation ; they have assbred her 2ifijesty that the majority of all classes in Van Diemen's Land are opposed to transportation ; " that ' convicts can no longer be introduced into the colony with real advantage to themselves or to the community ; ' that " any lucrative return to he derived from convict labour is ' beyond calculation outweighed by the frightful evils of the convict system ; " and they have ea rnest ly p raye d h er Ma jesty on behalf of those for whim they are put in charge to discontinue transportation to Van Diemen's Land. At all the meetings to which I have just referred resolutions were agreed to in favour of an anti-transportation league. The hon. member went on to contend that a multiplicity of evils, both material and moral, flowed from the influx of transperted convicts—interference with the market of free labour, demoralisation of feeling in society, and a fearful prevalence of atrocious crimes. Sir W. Molesworth then said, Sir, if we continue much longer to transport convicts to Van Diemen's Land, we shall be able to add to our na tional exhibition an unrivalled specimen of u red criminal republic, with liberty for crime, equality in infamy, and fraternity in vice. Not content with Van Diemen's Land, the felonry have migrated in shoals to the continent of Australia. There they pursue their old professions—the thief thieves, the burglar commits burglaries, the swindler swindles, and each after his habits indulges in his vicious propensities. The presence of these persons in the Australian colonies affords the only explanation of the otherwise inexplicable fact, that in these coloaies, where the economical causes of crime scarcely ex ist, the proportion of crime to population is greeter than in old countries where the economical causes of crime are most potent. It is an unquestionable fact, that almost al the crime committed in the Australian colonies is committed by persons who have been transported from this country. The courts of justice of New South Wales, Victoria, South Aus tralia, and New Zealand, are filled with these persons. The legislature of New South Wales attempted to protect that colony against the expirees from Van Diemen's Land, by certain police regulations called the Vagrancy Act. That act the Colonial-office has vetoed, to the intense disgust of the people of New South Wales, because it tended to pre vent the free circulation of free criminals throughout Aus tralia. The governor of New Zealand has asserted that the greater portion of the large amount of crime in that colony is committed by expirces. Thus, sir, the foul stream of crime rising in England, at first somewhat purified by passing through Pentonville and other penitentiari es , hee eesee foul again as it flows through the public soils at Gibraltar, and elsewhere, then traverses the moral swamps of Van Diemen's Land, acquir ingcontinent freak corruption, and pours its fetid waters over the e I sit dow n , ofA"tnili I w hen wish ceittao pes ti lential es ex onequestion to e x halation the ?meth New Zealand and the remotest isles of Polyne s ia. house and to her Majesty's ministers. Last year o y u gave representative institutions and self-government to Van Die men's Land. What did you mean by so doing ? How did you mean that the inhabitants of that colon should govern t.hemeelves you mean that they should govern them selves in the manner which they &ink best for their in ems, or in the manner which you think best for the ter eats of this cousta7 ? (Bear, hear Now , inter ow, on the subject of transporenties, there is a conflict between the alleged in , terser of this celesta" and those of Van Diemen's Land. You think that it is for your interest to transport your con victs to Van Diemcn's Land, and to cast forth your crimi nal filth on Van lieiten's Land. 'fhe inhabitants of that colony think that it is fur their interest not to receive your felons, and to coetinne to be your cesspool. Which of these two interests ought the representatives of the inha bitants of Van Diem:l . .' Laud to prefer? Oaght they to prefer the interests of their own constituents or of your con stituents ? They will without doubt prefer the interests of their own constituents. They are bound to do so by every recognised principle of constitutional government. They will do so. I believe not one man will b. - , elected a member of the House of Assembly of Van Diemen's Land who its not pledged to resist transportation by . every means in his power. What will you do? Discontinue transportation, or repeal the constitution of Von Diemen's Land ? You must do one of these two things. For free institutions and trans portation cannot co-exist in Van Diemen's Land, as long as the feelings of the inhabitants of that colony are such as they are at present. I beg the house to observe that the question upon which I ask fur a decision to-night is not wh. thee there shall or shall not be such a punishment as transportation ; upon that question I have repeatedly ex pressed opinions which are unchanged. The question for the house is not whether any mare convicts shall be trans ported to any colony, but whether any more convicts shall be transported to Van Diemen's Land without the consent of its inhabitants. Yon bare laid down the rule with re gard to your southern colonies, that no convicts shall be sent to any one of them without its consent. You say that Van I)icmen's Land shall be the one exception to that rule, that you created that colony for convicts, that it has been, is, and shall continue to be, a penal colony. Then I say you have committed an act of insanity in giving them free institutions, and arming thesis with the best weapons to resist your will. I therefore call upon you to keep faith with them, and to extend to them the rule that no convict. , shall be transported to them without their consent. It ap pears to me that it would be not only just but wise and prudent to take steps to bring about a+ speedily as possible the discontinuance of transportation to Van Diemeu's Land. I exhort and wart/ the house to suffer no delay in this matter if you hold dear our Australasian dependencies. For many years I have taken the deepest interest in the :dfairs of those colonies. I am convinced that they are amonost the most valuable of our colonial possession*, the priceless jewt I in the diadem of our colonial empire. I believe they can be easily retained with a little common sense and judgment on our part ; that well governed they would cost us nothing, but offer us daily improving markets for our industry, fields for the employ ment of our labour and capital, and happy . homes for our surplus population. That Australian empire is in peril from the continuance of transportation to Van Dienien's Land, and therefore I move that " .‘n addreas be press atop to her Majesty in council prayilor fur the discontinuance of transportation to Van Diemen's Land." (The lion. baronet resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.) Sir G. GREY said the greater part of the arguments adduced by the hon. gentleman applied to transportation to every other colony as well as Van Dienten's Land, and, if the house was induced by them to sanction the general dis continuance of transportation, they would have to decide what should be done with our criminals. The right honourable gentleman then said—Sir, I will nut go at large into this question. I nssume, from his speech, that the hon. baronet is not preparal to advo cate the discontinuance of transport turn as a system of punishment ; but again I must amnia the house, before they decide on this specific question, to bear in mind its relation to the general question to which I have just ad verted—to bear in mind the opinions repeatedly expressed and repeatedly disapproved of by this house with reference to the discontinuance of transportation —to bear in mind the opinions expressed in the year 1817, when a committee was appointed, who paid great attention to this subject, and who, in their report, stated it as their belief that it was essential there should be an ultimate removal of criminals from the, country to distant colonies. (lime.) The report of the committee states that the system of trans portation is a system which it is esseetial to retain as a means whereby offenders against the laws, and having un dergone a certain amount of punishment in this country, may be enabled to continence a new career in a new land with those eltanass of obtaining an honest live which the competition in the labour market at home and the consequent indisposition to em ploy any persons suffering from the stigma of a great crime, effectually closed to them here. And the committee go on to state that the question for consideration then is, whether transportation might not be continued to the colonies, relieved from the danger of producing those social evils which had hitherto been four Ito follow it. Subse quently to this report the question ho, frequently more before the Rona,. of Commons ; and although there have been no ac tual votes taken, the opinion of the house hail Ma a uniformly expressed to the effect that transportation—that is to my. not the system carried on up to the time when the report of the c nuinittee appeared, or even up to 181 g. but meaning the ultimate removal from this country of consists condemned for a certain class of offences, and after having undergone u system of penal dis- : cipline here—was absolutely essential, both a, a anemia of relieving this country from the disastrous evils which have been found to arise in other countries as a consequence of the accumulation of a large number of criruinals, who could not be maintained in a state of perpetual imprison ment, and who, left to themselves, could not obtain a live lihood otherwise than by falling bark into crime—and am, in itself, an essential element in the question ,1 punish ment, lasing the holding out to criminals of the deterring prospect of expatriation. But with regard to the narrower question raised by the hoe. gentleman, with regard to Van Diemen's Land, I ant at once ready to admit to the hon. gentleman, for I will not waste the tins, of the house by contending in detail against the evidence which has now been adduced, that there has latterly lien, and that there is a very general desire among the inhabit.' ants of Van Diemen's Land fur the discontinuance of trails p ortation under any circumstances whatever. (1LaL , ..1 rhe hon. gentleman has adverted to the pstitions add to this house and to her Majesty from different classes in Van Dietnen's Lead, some of the persons signing those peti tions being persons whose sentiments are entitled to the greatest attention, and all praying that no more ernivirts under any circumstances shall be sent to that co lony in which they live. Now, in referring to those petitions, I must say that in many eases the statements they contain arc grossly exaggerated, and that, in fact, justice is not done to the oniony, if we arc to accept such statements as core et with regard to the general condi tion of the colony, and to the exact results of the system of transportation of late years. But I clear the ground in making, at once, the udnxission that there exists a general desire, in the colony for the abolition of transportation. The hon. gentleman, in making this motion, chiefly relies on an alleged promise of the government given some years ago, that transportation to Van Diemen's Land should cease altogether. On this supposed promise he grounds his mo tion; and I will comesle that if the faith of the government had been actually pledged to the un qualified discontinuance of transportation to this particular colony, there would, indeed, be very strong grounds for the appeal to the house on this occasion. Cer tainly I will not deny that there are great maxim fur dis satisfaction on the part of the colonists, arising out of a communication made to them by the goventment on this subject; but at the same time, I must say that I think the hon. gentleman has considerably overstated his ease in re presenting that the faith of the government has been pledged to the extent he menti o ns. 'the hon. gentleman has read to the house extract.: from despatches in which a declaration is made by the goveninant that transportation, as tarried on previous to 18-16, would not be resumed in Van Diemen's Land. tinder the circumstances which we found before us we adopted at once the decision conic to by the late government, and it was accordingly announced that transportation to Van Diemen's Land would IC, suspended for a limited period. The hun. gentleman, referring back to this, now says that there has been a breach ofengage ment, inasmuch as in 1916 and in 1817 a large number of convicts were sent to, and arrived in, Van Diemen's Land. It is quite true that, in 1811', a large number of convicts did arrive in Vau laieuten's Land ; but the rea sun was, that they had left this country at the end of 1815, before the decision of the administration had been an nounced, and they arrived out most of them towards the close of 1846, and but very few at the beginning of 1817. As far as I can obtain information, I can Mate that not a single convict was sent to Van Diemen's Ismid in 1547 ; and, if any mnviets arrived out in that colony after Janurry, 1 , 517, they must have been cargoes which sailed from this country prior to the period when the suspension of transportution was determined on. I may, therefore, say, that in 1517, and up to the close cf 1848, no convicts arrived at Van Diemen's Land. But, then, what did we do? The hun. gentleman hies alluded to a letter I addressed to the Secretary of State for the Colonies on this subject, wherein I stated what were tile views of the government in thu position in which they found themselves, and what were the prospects in respect to the accumulation of convicts in this country in consequence of the suspension of transportation to Van Diemen's Land. I have, on other occasions, stated to the house what those views and intentions, at that period, were; and I have also explained how, of necessity, they were subsequently modified in the presence of the practical difficulties which we found in our path in our attempt to carry our system into effect. lam bound to admit that the views expressed in the letter referred to, and iii Lord Grey's despatch to Sir William Denison, are not in strict accordance with the course subsequently pursued by the government. I have stated before, and I repeat, that 1 was led to state those views and intentions in the letter in question from a belief that they were in the abstract perfectly right ; but without sufficient experience of the practical difficulties of carrying them out—which difficulties those only can be really ae guaiuted with who have been charged with the ailminwtra- Lon of the law in this country. (Hear, hear.) But what did Lord Grey do ? lie did not write to Sir William Denison simply to state that transportation to Van Die men's Land was to be suspended, and that at the cad of two years no transportation was to be resumed ; but in this very despatch he distinctly pointed out what the corn.' mittee of 1847 pointed out—the absolute necessity of the ultimate removal of convicts from this country—not as, up to that time, immediately after sentence—but in an advanced stage of punishment, and after having undergone a reformatory part of their sentence in this country—and not to Van Diemen's Land alone, but to the colonies gene rally. (Hear, hear.) Lord Grey adverts to the advisabi lity of dispersing convicts after having reached a certain stage in their punishment ; and he clearly pointed, not to the abolition of the transportation of convicts, but to the imposition of the sewer part of the punishment in this country, to separate imprisonment, to subsequent hard la bour on public works, and to ultimate removal from this country, not in accumulated numbers, but under a new system, to apply to the Australian colonies generally—the new system referred to being that system of exile that was enforced with regard to prisoners tent to Penton vine, the exiles to be subject to all the penalties attached by do law So returned convicts returning to this 'country before the period fixed for their punishment had expired. Lord Grey, no doubt, contemplated that the exil e system might generally be put in practice with regard to " 'the great masa of cmivicts, and that when thy were spread is a colony they might be free to obtain their own living, subjected only to the restriction that they should not return to this country during the time in which they held the con ditional pardon. In addition to this despatch, my noble friend sent the correspondence which had taken place in this country, which was afterwards published in the colony: and I may also refer to my own letter, in which I very plainly stated, while giving expression to the views of the government, that it was to be implied that the govern ment held itself at liberty to modify all its intentions as it d D iffi eni ctt n ie p e u w t h a i b c i l r i , n m at i t eo ar n is , e tr . u lo c t t h i, i , :lk o e n t t b l l: , re . : do not blame Sir W. Denison for that, because the lan guage was the language of hope and of inexperience, and I I m d fo oc reet U th ni the e a n ptr ts Saic tha rtilcVal n . the government had ever contemplated. I believe I did express myself in terms which I now regret, and regard as unjustifiable. But, at the mune time, I con tend that it conveyed no promise, and no pledge of the go. vernment, Mill less a pledge binding other governments which might succeed us, that transportation under ne eir cumstances was to be resumed to Van Diemen's Land, or that Van Diemen's Land was to be constituted an exceptem in this matter to other colonies. After, however, the d, els ration made by Sir W. Denison, and after commenicatiene hi o s f rev sen unin din , gX ; had taken place, and upon the representation of Sir W. lee ,' ninon himself, when we found he had mistaken the view s o r and onsystem Lion we substituted the system of sending them out on tickets of leave. In that very despatch, in which 1 c h o e u r vic M es aj as . est e y x ' i s les g w ov a e s rn al=,:ie t er, Sir William Denison Spoke of the general expects tion that the old system of transportation would be aban doned, he qualified what he said by a statement which the hon. gentlemau has not read. Sir William Denison sail, " Under all the circumstances, I think it would be desirable to carry out the intention mentioned in your lord ship's despatch, to discontinue transportation; and lie added, " and to make every possible arrangement, financial as ' well as administrative, by which the eulonymay provide fir I the inconvenience that may arise from the change of system:. Sir William Denison he re referred to the effect,' of the I sudden abolition of transportation; and he entertained no ! doubt that there would be gnat financial dinisultics, 1 that a great demand for labour would arise, for which there would be no adequate supply if, suddenly and totally, transportation was to be abandoned. We also received from Sir William Denison, subsequent to that period, statements from time to time of the effects produced by the suspension of transportation, by which it appeared that the evils arising from the crowding of convicts had been iii. minished, and that there was again arising a demand for labour, for which there was no due supply. We received a despatch from Sir Wm. Denison, dated June 1848, and laid on the table of the house in Februar 1819, in which he calculated that there would be needed In the colony a supply of from 700 to 5(10 convicts yearly; and it was thus made out that the new system had been so far sue cemful in the colony. Afterwards that demand so tar in creased that in the next year Sir William Iknieon gated that taking everything into consideration, he thought an annual importation of 1,500 male convicts would not he tee excessive. We received another despatch in 'amender, Baia, in which he repeats that 1,500 male convicts riled annually be received with advantage—iu referent: , to the opportunities for employment in tho colony, and net in reference to moral considerations, which rest un en tirely different grounds. There is, then, here e vi demo that one class of evils following transportation was removed by the measure of the government, and that room existed for a short periosl in Van Dictuen's Land for a limited amount of transportation, in order to supply the undoubted demands of the labour market. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. Grey then went on to contend that the Iton. hamlet had exaggerated the actual number of convicts sent to Van Diemen'. Land; the number of male convicts sent , into 181 a, exclusively, was but 22,506. Of that number, nomere than 1,800 had been sent since OWL Last year, it was tree, a considerable number arrived out—a burger nwelwr than ought to have been sent, except under circumstances of pressing necessity. Ile admitted, however, that there em much reason in the complaints of the colonists, and it was the intention of the government to give eve:y practical re lief to Van Diemen'e Land. 3'11,, bun. baronet had spoken disparagingly of the mural condition of the convicts under the new system, but all the evidence of persons preetica4 acquainted with its operation via+ against him. It was net to be assumed that transportation, carried on under a totally different form from that established sonic years aso, must necessarily produce the same evils as hail then sprung up. In a despatch of Nor., IMO, said Sir (i. Grey. ' Sir Win. lkuison says that Van Diemen',. Land, in either its mural ur its social relations, will not now suffer in a ' comparison with any of the other Australian colonies :and lie appeals to all persons acquainted with the past and the preent condition of the colony to attest the improvement. In this despatch, just laid on the table, he erclosee the copy of a letter front an officer of high rank in the ser vice of the East India Company, well qualified by his pod• teen and experience to judge, and who had last year an op- 1 portunity of forming an estimate of the actual condition of the colony. In another despetch from Sir Wm. Denison, with which he transmits the address, to the crown from tee 1 bishops and clergy of Van Diemen's Land, he states that in forwarding this address, he begs it to be understood that he dues not concur in the general statements which it off a, that lie retains the views he has expressed in other th.- vetches, and that he differs materially from the estimate which those gentlemen have taken of the moral condition of the colonists, believing that they in this addrem hail greatly wronged the esleity. I am not saying that Sir Witham Denison is infelliiee. All I ask of the house is to weigh his statements as the statements of an able, intelligent, and experienced officer in the colony, and to put his representation, fairly against I the sweeping allegations in the petitions and - addresses which proceed from persons who do not steak with the some sense of responsibility. ((Isar, hear.) I sin not even arguing that all this greatly affects the red question laid before the house by the hon. gentleman. I admit that it a ould lie fur the interests of the colonists if the colony could be made free from these who have been or are 1 . 011. %acts. But I believe that they are at Intent only . suffering front the large accumulation of convicts of fonneryears; and that the evils of which the complain do wit arise at all in connection with the email number now transported to them—those now sent hence being of a better clams, and going under a new system. (Bear, hear.) I believe that for many yews, past succes sive goverumeats have attempted to meet and to devise the most efficient measures against these evils; but as long as transportation remains a punishment which the legislature insists upon continuing (and this haze question is mixed up . with the question raised by the hon. Retaken*, it is quite clear that these evils cannot be altogether removed. (blear.) The great object of the present government has been the ' dispersion of these convicts, and that is the object which we • ought always to keep in view ; but we have been thwarted i —and when I use the word thwarted, I complain of nobody, fur 1 reepeet and sympathise with theme who desire that no one tainted with crime shall Ise permitted to Wel on their ' shores—but we have been thwarted and impeded by the unwillingness, the natural unwillingness, of any of our colonists to receive convicts, or to co-operate with the go vernment in the attempt at the dispersion of convicts. The right hon. gentleman the n Allowed that from Western Australia, and also front Moreton Bay, the government I had received accounts which led them to believe that the 1 introduction of convicts into those districts would be at tended with the happiest effects, and that there existed the best possible disposition on the part it f the inhabitants to roe nave them. Sir 0. Grey concluded as follows : 1 am far, however, from saying that the colony has not some ground of complaint, and that the government ought not to avail themselves of other outlets fur convicts and relieve Van Diemen's Land from any undue pressure; and although„l feel with Sir W. Denison that great advan tages are derived by the colony from the presence of con vict+ under the new system, yet I sempathim wills those • who desire that the social and moral evils arising from the presence of them convicts should be removed. It is the desire of government, without giving any pledge 011 the subject, such as the present mot' requires, to discontinue transportation to the colony as fir as possible, consistent with their public duty. They arc prepared to give due at tention to the representations from the colony of Van Die men's Land as to the evils arising from the transport of convicts there, and will endeavour, as I have already said, to find other outlets, so that the colony may be relieved from the consequences arising from the preemie of any large number of comparatively undisci plined convicts. 'I have called your attention to the letter of a retired Indian officer, whose statement is of con siderable importance, and I hope that hon. members will read that letter and give due weight to the views which are there expressed by an unbiassed and intelligent witness. That officer, before his visit to the colony, was led to believe that it was in the lowest state of degradation, but the nate% of a very careful examination on his part completely dis appointed the expectations he had previously formed on the subject. It is highly necessary to the prosperity of Van Diemen's Land that its character, its social and mural posi tion should be properly understoo d, awl that emigrants may not be deterred from going to the colony by exeggerated we eir W ih e ow ar d oles ac w t ort w h) it , h imp g o r ie m any ca f u res tio h n di l ffi es e t ult w ie: statements. (Hear, hear.) I hope that the house will not by its haaty adoption of the motion of the hon. baronet em barrassments on the government. It is requisite that an br Vio ut o t n o r o c t m he o r ve, e a v n il d I P tr e u a s t t er that tha th n e th ase w w h i i e ll h be awndshe ei eul ti; flied that it ire the desire of the government to proceed im- l partially, and endeavour to reconcile the interests of the colony with the interests of this country in dealing with this subject. (Hear, hear.) I, therefore, hope that the house will not accede to the proposition of the hon. baronet (Sir W. Molcsworth). Mr. ANSTBY rose, and was addressiag the house upon the motion, when An HON. r acy here moved that th e house be counted, and there bet only thirty-three members present, the house acljourne at half-past seven o'cl o ck. NJ REPRESENTATION OP WEST NORFOLK.—A requisi lion was in course of gn ature at Lynn, on Tuesday, call ing upon W. liagge, Esq., M.P., and 0. P. Bentinok, EN., to offer themselves as candidates for this division of the county whenever a dissolution may take_place. DEATH OF MAJOR-GENERAL SI R WILLIAM Ha Risme, H.C.B.—On the 15th instant Sir W. Morison, whe has eat as member for Clackmannan and Kinross sines 1842, as a liberal, died in town. Sir William Morison served many years in the Madras Artillery, and h a d h e ld several high offices in India, was Commissioner for the Mysore government, Member of the Supreme Coencil. Pre sident of that body, and likewise had been Deputy-Gover nor of Bengal. In 1841 he obtained the local rank of Me. jor-General in the Bast Indies, and in 1348 was nonii natod, LCD.