The Express. — London, England, 1853-04-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—TiivasokT, APRIL 7. Skit LOUD CH 4N CIILLOII took his matt 5 o'clock. I' ri lONS PRESENTED„ REOISTRATIoN nv Asscamsche BILL.—By the LORD CHANCELLOR, Iron certain solicitors—in favour of; from two Read• men, officers in the establishment for regir tering deeds in Midilleses, praying the house to make pro• vision for them in the enntensplated menace.—Lord ST. LEONARD'S, from the practising barristers and attorneys of Newcastle-opon•Tyne ; Auutratov iir J TAVA TO PAILLIAMINT.—By the Rid of DIALH ESL RY, trim Stockton, •igainst.—Lord Dk:S DALR, from t is Inhabitants of Dambarion, against. Cuvisrm. PAL LIT—By the Bishop of LONDON, from the iniiiibitanis of a parish is the country, against opening the Crystal ra...Lee upon the Lord's Day. MAYNOOTH. The Earl of MALME•sIiCUY, at the request of Lord lilitscitit.sea, gave notice that his lordship would postpone his motio.:, which stood fur the 14th, until the 18th instant, in V.llitipleuCe of the unavoidable absence of the Earl of Daby. IllßTll OF A PRINCE. The Earl of ABERDEEN said—Before proceeding with the business of the house I wish to submit a motion to your lordship. which will, I am sure, receive your cordial and unanimous support. In consequence of the happy ear. at— the birth of • prince—which has taken place this day, I am desirous of moving an address of congratulation to her Majesty—(hear, hear)—as an expression on the part of this house of that devotion and attachment which her Majesty is sa well entailed to receive. My lords, persuasion is not necessary upon this ocesaiou ; I should only do that which would be unbecoming to your lordships if I were to use any expressions ill erale.sSuUr to induce you to give your cordial' support to this mutie.u. I shall therefore only move that an' humble address be presented to her Majesty congratulating her Majesty upon :he birth of another prince, and enuring her that every aduiticu to her Majesty's domestic circle affords the high. st satisfaction to the Douse of Lords. (Hear, hear.) The Y. eel of MALME3BURY said that, although it was net necessary by the forms of their lordships' house theta motion by • peer should he seconded by another, especially when is was of the nature of the one now before them, yet he thought it would be unbecoming if he did not, in the name of the noble lords upon that side of the house (for whom he regretted that his noble (rit 'el, the Earl of Derby, le «t.,t absent, could not answer) state his eater, eaueurr. nee in the sentiments espressed by the noble earl (the Ertl of Aberdeen) in regard to the pleasure which they all felt at the announcement they had beard that day of the safe delivery cl her Majesty. Every year added to the affection which her subjects felt towards her, and no expression of his was nee, selfy then, or would be necessary at any future time, to impress upon that house or any othi r assembly of her Majesty's subjects, that there was but ewe feeling of loyalty and affection throughout this ceuntry for the Queen who bad reigned so constitutionally and so i kindly, and yet with so much strength, over this great empire. (Hear, hear.) The motion was then pat, and carried unanimously. THE CITY DEPUTATION TO IRE EMPERoIt OF THE FRENCH. Lord CAMPBELL wished to call the attention of the house fur a short time to this subject. In the course of the observations which he had made on Monday evening last, he stated that it bad been said that Mr. (now Sir Ruben) Adair had been sect in the year 1791 to represept to the ElUpftbi. Catherine of Russia the opinions of a pow etful party in this cannery. He had not stated his owe belief in that representation, but had said that even if the feet were incurrectly stated that would not prejudice the authority of Mr. Burke respecting the law which he laid down as applicable to such eases. He (Lord Campbell) had received a very courteous letter from Sir R. Adair, ice which be sap/toed great miurtitication that this report should have received any countenance from him ; this however was a "snag impression en the part of Sir H. Adair, as be (Lord Campbell) had certainly not spoken of the report se a correct ens. Sir Robert had sent him a statement, merely for his own information; but he thought he should do wrests if be did not, for the information of their lord ship. and for the sake of historical truth, state the substance of that communication. Sir R. Adair was now in his 99th year ; during rimy years he served this country with great success, and was sent by successive governments to Vienna, to Coostantinople, and to Berko. The character of such a functionary was a matter of some importance. In the most unequivocal manner be denied that he eve/ Via employed by Mr. Fol or any peaty in this eouotry, to represent them, or to make any representations whatever to the Empress Catherine, and he then goes on to state the facts which gave nee to the misapprehension. He says:— •• The Fri neli Revolution had just broken out, and, having early in life applied myself to the study of • ter foreign inte rests, 1 wished to form a true judgment of the effect it was likely to produce on our relations with the great European states, more or less interested with England in the preserva tion of a balance against French ascendancy. My country. men went eagerly to Paris. I preferred going to Brus sels, to Vienna, to Warsaw, and to St. Petersburg. We all know to what purposes this journey was converted by Mr. Burke, after his hostile separation from Mr. Fox; but it was nut until their Soul rupture in the ensuing year that Mr. Burke 's letter to the Duke of Portland, the source of all this nousence about my ' Embassy,' was published. Thirty years afterwards, Bishop Prettyman, Mr. Pitt's college tutor, wrote the Life of Mr. Pitt,' in which be alludes to it as a matter of nototiety, and be stated that he could prove the facts of the transaction by authentic di cumests among Mr. Pitt's pipers, of which, as assentor, he had become possessed. I had borne with composure all the stupid jokes in the newspapen about myself and my proceedings while I was at St. Petersburg; but this challenge from a holy bishop—(s laugh)—was not to be despised. I accepted it accordingly, and demanded the production of these documents, so declared to be in his possession. The bishop declined to produce them, and until year speech in the House of Lords yesterday I have never heard a word about the matter worth attending to. I am sure that you have never seen my ' Two Letters to the Bishop of Winchester,' published in 1823, or you would not have stated that I was deputed by any man or set of men to go on an errand of this nature to St. Petersburg—similar to that of the City deputation to the new Emperor. I think as you do on this deputation, on the grounds both of policy and the law of nations." Now, after this avowal on the part of Sir R. Adair, than whom his lordship believed there was not a more honour able man—(hear, hear)—he hoped that this matter would be set at rest, and that it would be henceforth an audit putsd fact that such a deputation never existed. At the same time the law laid down by Mr. Burke, although upon an erroneous supposition, remained correct. The Earl sf ALBRMARLE begged to tender his ao knowledgments to his noble sad learned friend for the Pr Ibsen). he had borne to the character of hie (Lord Albs merle's) kinsman. Sir Robert Adair felt that he bad been the victim of a misrepresentation for upwards of 60 years. ("lbar," and a laugh.) AFFAIRS OF INDIA. . - The Earl of HARROWBY lose to present a petition from the native inhabitants of Calcutta and the Presidency of Bengal, which was signed by upwards of 6,000 native, of India. The petitioners, la commencing their state ment, said that, as saW•eb of the Crown of Great Britain, they entertained ruling' of the most sincere loyalty to the sovereign of this country. They then went on to state the various changes in the government of India which were introduced by the last act or charter, and pointed out the inefficacy of these changes to ((feet the de sired mulls. Some indulgenoe (if he might me the word) ought to be extended by the beau to the expressions of the petitioners, who were anaisquainted with the forms and practice of this country. Amongst other things to which the petitionerscalled attention, was the 87th section of the Charter Act, b which it was emoted that uo British sub ject should be dbabled from holding any employment under the company. They observed that, notwithstanding this declaration, nativesof India, with very few exceptions, had not been appointed to any places wader the company but those of a very subordinate nature, and they also pointed out that the highest emolument which it was permitted to the natives to enjoy was abuut four hundred rupees per month, which was not more than clerks received in public and private offices in .that country. They contrasted these payments with those made to officers in the civil service, who were receiving 2,000 rupees per laexas. They prayed the house in future to give a shorter MOO of power to the government, and this we, • point of u for their lordships to consider ; if they were to this yea, it was important that it should only be toe ashen period . The petitioners next pointed to the aulnaslous esoditissi of the present scheme of double go moment by the Beard of Directors and the Board of Con trol; they then eensidered the position of the present body of proprietors of Luba stock, and were by no means fa- Towable to that holy in the expression of their views upon the subject. The proprietors, they sensidered, bad no direct interest in the trade or prosperity of the unaby, and were for that purpose neat for the position which they held. The petitioners also °Nested to the authority* present confided to the geverstwesserel to est oyes his own responsibility, mellasy le the *eke date mask except nader restrio- USN babe aseeed then Om at present casting; and they eidestod Inmate W the pwer given le the governor gourd *kg* le cry peal of the eseetry without the :=llTbey she espesesed as eykdsa against the policy . 11 the legiabillos cad ansanthe lumen. He next wadi Ise* epee a yelse en while *sir lartir o Lould wet he apested mem fa *ovine of the err. Thefientgleinsa hen the eideledows by whisk tyke of leberilemes bed her waribeally "Weisel " snow ier: gins= who had ha ails, either es aseseat of inawelity at of theft babe ealweesd Christianity, It Went esatnry Ie the Meer ef the Madge laws. They also expreseed their split= that the high • cakes whisk were invariably Mika by Inreposee were too highly asoomierated, while the lower Wiese were most inadequstely prid. They objected se the Woe sea a omietants em ployed on the civil service_ ; they olarlsblBd a the system geese* at Haileybuy dame it which they tospeted its. uld be Wows spas men poerally to young M of Englaa4, if, ea they should be found • preporly prepared, awl she • water degree to Mtn Moo Gm Ina* The, eleseleil ties the civil ser ialise& the weep*, were sass seat est Wawa snakiest eineetise a lit them for the della ef *sir slim, sad Ihst they Were frusuently at loss Oa On. ne7=ektett funhn of appuintwrot to W apices, which admits iarompeteat and excludes seepserwl pesos. That chartist of corruption against WWI Wass* generally are ant properly investigated ; that Obi pmeerli esestitatio• of the judicial system and of the s gums was not such ac to afford substantial ju dos I tad that the civil and criminal codes should be that • uniform practice of legal adminiitra lion should bo established under duly qualified judges, applicable to persons of different origin, and that the judi cial and public (Men generally should be plieed in a wore independent position. They then drew attention to the practice of appointing collectors of revenue to be judicial functionarie-, urging its abolition. They complained of the ineffective state and the expense of the police ; of the stamp duties charged in every step in legal process, which they said operated as an obstruction to the adminfstratioa of justice ; and of the oppression of the salt tau, which, on a population necessarily requiring • large quantity of that article was extremely severe. They further complained of the admin;stration of the revenue, that • very inadequate proportion of the amount collected was devoted to improvements, and that works of public utility were almost wholly neglected. He (the Earl of Harrowby) believed that on no one point was the adminie trathm of the affairs of India by the East India Company so defective as this. (Rear, hear.) Tue petitioners com plained that proper provision was not made far the education of the native population, the whole sum expended for that purpose in the lower province, which contained a population of 40,000,000, being only 3 las., of rupees, or 30,0001. The mode of appointing medical officers they urged was objec tionable, and they p. - eyed that a system might be established under which natives educated for the medical profession hero should be admitted to medical appointments, and not, as they were now, excluded on the ground that they were not covenanted servants. These were the principal points to which the petitioners called their lordships' attentton. He bad contented himself with • simple enumeration of them, conceiving that as they were all under the considera tion of a committee of their lordships' bouse,tbat was& proper mode of dealing with them on the present occasion. (Hear.) At the same time he was anxious that these parties should see that, although they might have no constitutional model of bonen licard in their own country, their lordships' ears were always open to their grievances and their prayers without being over critical as to the language in which their complaints might be stated. (Hear.) It was to the Interest of this country that these petitioners should be made to know that they might safely appeal to that house, and that at this moment there was a committee of their lordships sitting upon Indian affairs willing and anxious to devote their best attention to the statements of the inha bitants of India, and to every point connected with the ad ministration of the affairs of that country. (Hear, hear.) To that committee he trusted their lordships would consent to refer the petition, and that there it would be examined plat by point in detail, with a view to the removal of every slime and every jest ground of complaint. (Hear, hear.) The discussion was then interrupted by a message from the Commons, demanding a conference, for the purpose of ebenining their lordships' muesli to an address for a com miolian in the Canterbury election case, which was con ceded. Oa the return of the managers of the conference, TM Earl of ALBEMARLE felt considerable regret at Whig that his opinions were not iu unison with those of hee - Majesty's government on this question, for on no other he believed did he differ from them. It did, how ever, appear to him that to legislate upon Indian affairs at this stage of the business was like placing themselves in the position of the judge who insisted upon passing sen tence upon the prisoner, having only heard one side of the case. (Hear, hear.) His noble friend had spoken in an apologetic tone as to the form and phraseology of the peti tion he had presented—it was true the document was more' bulky than petitions to that house generally were, but then it should be recollected that it detailed the grievances of 48,000,000 of people, or two-fifths more than the whole population of Great Britain and Ireland ; and with regard to the language in which this statement of grievances was drawn up, he (the Earl of Albemarle) had read the petition, but saw nothing in it calling for apology ; on the con trary, it was drawn up with considerable skill, and afforded very satislactory indications of the intellectual progress of our Indian fellow-subjects. (Hear.) The petitioueis em phatically expressed their loyalty, and acknowledged the blessings they received from the East India Company, and further exulted in their connexion with the greatest and mast prosperous nation in the world, but they denied that they had the fall advantage which they had • right to expect from such a eoanection and they prayed for the protection of that house. He tru sted that their lordships would see, from the few remarks he had made, and from the contents of the petition, that it was mere delusion to suppose that mere immunity from foreign invasion would preserve the natives under our rule from continued heartburninge and distmatent. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that there were one or two points in the petition to which he hit it mesa eery to call their lordships' attention. lle had se Awn, Lions whatever to make to the expressions in the petition, nor, he regretted to say, could he take any objeedea tots general statement of grievances, but he desired to call at tention to the prayer of the petition, and the plan which it sketched out for the general government of India. This petition proceeded, then, from the educated natives of India, and proposed that the legisla tive authority now resting on the Governor• General in council, should be taken from them. Now, on principle it might be right that the legislative and executive autho rity should be divided, but the petitioners proposed that it should be vested in a new legislative council, of which 12 members were to be natives, and 6 English. Here was a majority of seven in seventeen, which would be a good working majority in England, but in India it would be • practically giving up to the natives all legislative power. He hadealy mentioned these propositions to their lordships, is order that they might see what was proposed by " Young Calcutta," in the very infancy of its education. (A laugh.) It only led him to this conclusion—that it was extremely desirable to legislate on the Indian question with the i smallest possible delay. (Hear, hear.) He said with the ' smallest possible delay, because he felt that it would be dif- I ficult, if not impossible, (or government to come to a con clusion satisfactory to themselves until the several corn- mittees had concluded their investigations. (Hear, ' bear.) He must say, however, that beyond that period it was wholly inexpedient to postpone legislation. He could assure his noble friend that whatever might appear to be oar strength in India, and great it was if pro perly exercised, it would not hear to be left with one sec tion of the authorities acting against the other. In vapor Yea to the distance from this country, in proportion to the pea with which the governor was surrounded, should be M all tires the confidence and support which that governor hal inlisived fom the home authorities. He therefore = e lo express his earnest hope, that if his noble friend to maintain that double system, from which so an& evil had arisen, he would at least relieve the Ge wasaw-Getteral of India from the miseries and embarrass ments of which he was at present the victim, by placing Ida under the direct and sole authority of the Crown. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. THE NEW ZEALAND COMPANY. Earl ORET, who was indistinct], heard as the MIN mencement of his observations, remseded the haute that during the previous session of parliament, on immeintima tie a aide. nature wee thrown out stalest the Now liesiand Omeganit being stated, among °that ildm inn= grassed parliameat lw public purser boss riaappli by the dieselen, while Ms mminin of tie ham with refereste to the minion bad bra adowthed es tear &kat Be ishmillad that new the dee had arrived for semoitiniz e4 he the eisausteawarer whether the }alias wont, W an d Wm, who was to blare, and what ammo lir Meese &mid be arbetahar sad for that ream be to ash thin noble duke the ineetary for the Oeloadee er it woe this baseatioa of gwesewseat to boatels say inquiry, by =sweet a parhaaaawry err mitre, or otherwise, into the obaagas which bad been made against the New Zealand Company ? The Duke of NEWCASTLE diswilst the sable load ear 'adorably overstated one portion ef Ow glasellea. while be had dealt very lightly with swathes whisk bed hared the principal charge when the affairs et the New Zealand Company were under disomelom cad upon which he (the Mahe of Newcastle) had meted lie opinion that the house was incompetent to pus catkin portions of the bill. The noble earl said the charge was misappropri ation of the public funds, but he (the Duke of Newcastle) hardly knew to what the noble earl alluded in making that statement. Misappropriation was certainly implied, but the main charge was this—that in the negotiations with the government of which the noble earl had been member, and of which Sir C. Wood was Chancellor of the Exchequer, the company had concealed from that government, and es pecially from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who had at the time a measure for the relief of the company under con sideration, certain legal opinions respecting their liabilities. It was represented that having o bta ined a legal opinion which was unfavourable to their case, they suppressed it, and obtained another, which they showed to the govern ment. That was the real charge under consideration last year, and apes that he had based his opinion that it would be impolitie to concede to the New Zealand Company the land classes in their bill. The time might arrive when investigation would be necessary ; but that would be when it was acesetaised bow the colonists had received the mea- we of last year. He must my that after the concession of the noble earl to the New Zealand Company without inves tigation, he could see no reason for re-opening the question thee ; but as far as the noble earl himself was concerned, be begged to amen him that there never had been the slightest intention of seeming him of conniving with or weaning the New Zealand Company. Indeed, two of the noble earl's private letters which had never been meant to see the light went completely to exonerate him from any weepicion of the kind. Pearl GREY thanked the noble duke for the observations having special reference to himself, but still must ex an in press kis regret that government did not intend to eider vestigation. Their lerdsldpe adjourned at a quarter to 8 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TEIVZSDAY, APRIL 7. Tko Srkuksk took the chair at 4 o'clock. ELECTION COMMITTEES. The Numbers were chosen to serve on the oommitteee to try ths disputed elections for the boroughs of Dartmouth, Waster, and Taunton. PRIVATE BUSINESS. THIRD RRADINGS. Bangor Waterworks; Bristol Waterworks; Carmarthen Markets ; Cork Municipal Corporation ; Devouport Gas; Dublin and Belfast Junction Railway ; Great Yarmouth Waterworks ; Lowestoft Water. Gas, andMuket; Nottingham Gas ;.and Orraskirk Gas ; PUBLIC BUSINESS. PETITION PRESENTED. By Lord ELMLEY, from the inhabitants and visitors of . Malvern Wells ; also from the town of Malvern; Mr. HINDLEY, from Ebenezer Chapel, Chatham; Mr. MAS- ' TERMAN, from drivers of cabs and omnibusol, and ean- 1 electors, plying is and near London • also time keepers, watermen, and housekeepers connec ted with the acme, signed by 2,2a1 per,ons; Mr. BAINES, from the ministers and congregation of St. Andb,w's Church, Leeds; Mr. BHEMIUDGE, from B iTastaple, Newport, Westleigh, and Instoro ; Mr. DUNCAN, from the Fres Church of Forfarshire ; Mr. ALCUCIi, from ministers of Battersea Chapel; against. PAiILIAMEN AAAA PAPIRS.-By Mr. L. KING, from the Hatteras Literary Institute • Lord LOVAINE, from Alnwick Medical Institute ; L ord ELMLEY, from mem 'bees of the Mechanics Institute of Upton; Mr. CHILD, from the Staffordshire Potteries Mechanics' Institute; for supplies of. MILITIA BILL—By Mr. J. RICARDO, from Ilan:cy, in the Staffordshire Potteries, for repeal of. ATTORNIES' CERTIFICATE DUTY.—By Sir G. BERKE LEY, from antinomies, solicitors, and proctors promising at Devonport, praying for release from payment of. Oecos PENNY I'oor.eoz —By Mr. T. BARNES, from inhabitants id Huntingiloo, in favour of. TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE.—By Mr. CHILD, from Me chanics' Institute of Cheadle, Staftirdshire, for repeal of. EQUAL TAXATION OF NECTSPAPER.S.—By Mr. L. RI CAItDO, from Mr. Barnwell, the proprietor of the Stroud ties Press, praying for. MATNOOTH.— By Mr. DUNCAN, tram the free church (Cartionetie), Forfarshire, against. REPRESENTATION OP THE LONDON UNIVEILSITT.—By Mr. 'MILLIGAN, from the professors and students of Airedale College. Bradford, Yorkshire, for. NI:NEM:MS.—By Mr. WHALLEY, from Peterborough, for inspection of. MALT AND HOP DUTY.—By Mr. B. COLES, from the several parishes of Longparitb, Bart in Stacey, Mous. on, ! Lecliford, Hursthourne, Abhotsam, Chilbolton, Wherwell, ! Kings Sombourne, and U,I-Sombourne, all in the county of Southampton, for the repeal of. Clamor REtIERTES BILL.—By Mr. ALCOCK, from the clergy and deanery of Ewell, against. PAYMENT OF WAGES W171101:7 STOPPAGES BILL.—By Sir H. HALFORD, from -IMO framework knitters of Derbyshire, for. UNIVERSITY TESTS. SCOTLAND —By Sir J. ANDER SON (3), t rom the united presbyterian churches of Drymeu. Stirlingahire, of Hamilton, Sunderland, for the abolition of. COMBINATION op WORKMEN.—By Sir DE LACY EVANS, from the working masons of Westminster, pray leg amendment of the combination laws, and that agree ment* am o ng s t workmen respecting wages may not be un ' lawful; Mr. CROOK, from the operative cotton spinners of Bolton-le-Moors, praying the house will pass an act to ' explain and amend the act of 6 Deo. IV., c. 129, relating to combinations of workmen. CONSOLIDATED ANNUITIES ACT.—By Mr. O'CONNOR BENCH?, front the board of guardians of the Naas Union, county ofKildare; also from board of guardian, of the Atby Union, tame county; Mr. 0. HIGGINS, from the board of guardians of the Swinford Union ; and also from the board of guardian, of Newport, for the remission of. DUET ON CASILIMAYS.—By Sir H. HALFORD, from owners of carriages and coachbuilders in Liicestershire ; Mr. SCILIOLEFIELD, from coachmakers of Birmingham, fur modification of. LAW Or SITTLIKUNT OF THP POOR.—By Mr. LANG STON, from the board of guardians of the city of Oxford; from board of guardians of Einem, fur repeal of. Homa XADS SPIRITS IX BOND.—Br Mr. O'FLA HERTY, from the spirit dealers of Galway, pra3ing the house to alter the mode of Iming the duties of. COUNTY FINANCIAL BOARDS.—By Mr. COBDEN, from the board of guardians, Tednsurden Union, pruning fur the establishment of. Gil/MC-By Sir W. JOLLIFFE, from the agriculturists, producers, and sellers of corn in Croydon market, preying for an immediate revision of the present mode of obtaining the average price of. NOTICES OF MOTIONS. PILOTAGE BILL. Colonel HARCOURT gave notice that on Monday next, before the house went into committee on the Pilotage Bill, he should move for certain returns relating to the num ber of pilots licensed at Cowes, Southampton, and Ports- mouth. WRIT FOR THE BOROUGH OF RTE.. Mr. TUb NELL gave notice that be should, on this day week, move for a sew writ fur the borough of Rye. CLERGY RESERVES (CANADA) BILL. Sir J. PAKINGTON gave notice that to-morrow he should put a question to the noble lonl the member for London as to whether be had consulted the law officers of the crown, and if he would state the opinion of the govern ment whether, in the f the Clergy Reserves (Canada) Bill, sow before the house, becoming law, and the legislature of Canada should exercise the right given them to secularise the clergy reserves, the guarantee ou the Con solidated Fund, given by the 3rd & 4th Vic., would still be enforced, and the sum in that act be permanently secured to the clergy of Canada. NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND). Mr. G. A. HAMILTON postponed the motion of which I I he had given notice with reference to national education in Ireland until the 26th instant. - BOROVEZ OF itTS.—Mr. TUFNELL presented a pe. tition trout certain electors of the borough of Rye, praying that a new writ iltoeld issue for the borough ; and he gave notion that on that day week he should move that a new writ should issue. ADMISSION Or 'two TO PARLIAMENT.—By Mr. CHILD. from Illaffrow Walden. Emu; Mr. BREM RI from Renlisbary: Mr.;ALCOCK, from the clergy of the Desmry of Enett ; ageing. °YINING OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE ON 81:NDATE.— THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 8, 1853. .1 3 0 - L - LINO - IT - C - OONTY ELECTIONS. Mr. BENTINCK gave notice that, to-morrow, on going into committee of supply, he should ask the Attorney- G 1 whether it was the intention of the government to bring in a bill to amend the act peeled this session for limit ing the polling at county elections to one day ? CORPORAL PUNISHMENTS IN THE NAVY. Mr. HUME moved for a return of the number of persons dogged in the navy since 1847, distinguishing each year, specifying the name of the ship, the name of the commander, the offence, the sentence, and the number of lashes indicted, and static ly the highest and the lowest number given in each clam in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 76, of Session 848), PIRATES IN BORNEO. Mr. HUME moved an address for return of the applies- Seas that have been made to the Admiralty Court, in England, the Vice - Admiralty Court, in Bengsd, at Singa pore, and at Prince of Wales Island, for bead or bounty money, upon the destruction or dispersion of alleged pirates on the coast of Borneo and adjacent island., in each year since 1841 ; suiting when and on behalf of whom the several applications were mode to the court, specifying the names and number of the vessels engaged in each action, the names of the commanding offices., and the number of the crews of such ship., and the dates of the respective actions ; stating farther the number of alleged piratical vessels do• growl, captured, or dispersed, the number of pirate alleged to have been on board at the commencement of each . &edam, the number of such persons destroyed, captured, or I disponi, Gni do amount of head money awarded by the 1 coast in emit ease, and whether the said amounts have bees al in whole or in part, or removed by appeal to any other mart. INSPECTION OF COAL MINES. Mr. HUTCHINS begged to put 7;;;Iion to the Under Secretary for the Hoene Department. It would be remembered that ke (Mr. Hutchins) intended to make • motion for the reappointment of :a committee to inquire into the inspection of coal-mines ; but bad not done so on the understanding that the present government intended to bring in a bill on the subject this session. He understood 'that they no longer intended to do so. He begged to ask whether it was true that no bill on the subject was to be introduced, and whether, if he brought on his motion, it would meet with the support of the government. Mr. FITZROY said that it the boo. gentleman brought on his motion for the re-appointment of a committee, it would meet with no objection on the part of the govern ment ; but he wished to call the attention of the hon. gen tleman to the circumstance that two inspectors had been sent to visit the coal-mines of France and Belgium, as It was believed that the system for providing against accidents in those countries was more effectual then that adopted in this country. He would suggest to the hon. gentleman the advisability of postponing his motion until the return of those inspectors. Mr. HUTCHINS intimated his intention of postponing his motion until then. UARA. Mr. HUME begg e d to ask the noble lord (J. Rus sell) what had been the result of the conferences respecting the quarantine laws, held in Paris in 1851. Lord 3. RUSSELL said that the result of the conferences was that the persons employed to conduct them had adopted • project for a convention with regard to sanitary regale tions which had been submitted to the different powers by whom they were employed. On the regulations reaching this country they were referred by the Secretary of State to the Board of Trade. It was found that the matter was one of great difficulty, and it was still under consideration with • view to establishing a convention which should be agreeable to the powers in question, as well as to all the maritime powers which had not taken part in the coeference. SIR J. BROOKE AND MR. HUME. Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND rose to put a question to Lord J. Russell, of which he had given notice, but before doing so he wished to draw attention to a most extraordi nary document which bad bean circulated that morning, and of which he had • right to complain. It was well known that the honourable member for Montrose had for the last two years been in the habit of putting notices on the paper containing allegations end aecusstioos against Sir James Brooke. He (Mr. Drummond) had therefore given notice to the government of Lord Derby, that he should insist any motion of that sort, in order that the hon. member for Montrose should be prevented from bringing them forward without his (Mr. Drummond) having an op- Iportunity to reply to them. When the present government came into office he gave a similar notice to them. The hon. member had now shifted his ground, and wrote despatches I from Bryenston-squen, containing grass libels. Mr. HUME—I deny it. I Mr. DRUMMOND—LibeIs, gross libels, which were I printed at the government expense, and two of which he now held in his hand; and they were printed with the ' sanction of her Majesty. It was charged 'plait Sir J. Brooke, a servant of the crown, who had been approved of by the noble lord, and the noble lord the member for Tiverton, that he "utterly disregarded all truth," that " he was pelterieg with the truth," that he was guilty " of glaring violations of the truth," and " of gross and scanda lous falsehoods which were now brought under the consi deration of their lordships." That paper was presented, not by the ordinary means of • motion, but by commend of her Majesty. lie (Mr. Drummond) begged to ask for what reason it was that her Majesty was thus made to bring forward charges against a servant of the crown, to wards whom, as far as could be judged from public docti meuts' there was no moon for a departure fro m th e ap proval he had hitherto received. Lord .1. RUSSELL said that the origin of the produc lion of the correspondence in question was, that after the resignation of Lord Derby's government, and at • time when there was no minister in the house who could take on himself to give an answer with respect to papers which should be produced, a motion was made by the hon. mem ber for Montrose and an address agreed to for the produc tion of those papers. When he took the seals of the Foreign-offiee be found the papers prepared pursu ant to the address which had been agreed to when, as he bad stated, there was no minister in the house who was properly answerable. His Seat impression was that it was his duty to ask the house to rescind the order they had made. (Hear, hear.) On further consideration, however, and seeing that the address hai been carried he thought it perhaps better that the papers should be pre sented in conformity with the address. Accordingly they were presented. Afterwards another application was made by the bon. member for Montrose for the production of other papers; and I thought until this moment that they had been ordered to be produced on the motion of the hon. member for Montrose. The bon. member for West Surrey however said that they were produced by command of her Majesty. If that were so it was only in continuation of the correspondence already on the table. lie (Lord J. Russell) mu , t say that he thought that the course pursued owing to the sech.ent which he had stated was a very inconvenient one—(hear, hear)—and he trusted that the house would not agree to any tur:her motions for the production of this corres;ionderce, which in tact were letters written by the hon. member for Montrose to the Secretary of State, and which ought more properly to form part of a speech in the house. Mr. lIUME begged to say, in explanation, that the two letters produced were written by him on the 10.11 and 18th ult. (as we understood.) The house should know that this was the hon. gentleman the member for West Surrey's own fault ; because on the 18th lie moved for the production of two letters, one from Loid Wodehouse to Sir J. Brooke, and Sir J. Brooke's answer to Lord Wodehouse, which were delivered to the noble lord and printed by command of her Majesty. lie (Mr. Ilume) then addressed a letter to the noble lord, stating that if Lord Wodehoute's letter to Sir J. Brooke and his answer were published, it would not he fair that his (Mr. Hume's) of the 10th was not pub lished also. lie therefore asked that his letter of the 10th ult. should be published ; and he did so only in conse quence 01 the irregular conduct of the hoe. member for West Surrey. The letter of the 18th was in answer to a paper which bad been presented, and what lie (Mr. Hume) had had an opportunity of seeing, andLwhich was lull of erroneous statements, which be was ready to prove ; and, with regard to which, Sir J. Brooke and those coiriected with him, shrunk from inquiring into. He maintained that it was only fair that those two letters should be pro duced, in order to make the correspondence complete: he had no intention of troubling the house on the matter ; and it was the hon. gentleman's own fault. Mr. DRUMMOND said he had made that motion, be cause the bun. member was circulating a paper headed " Falsehoods of Sir J. Brooke." PIRACY IN BORNEO. Mr. DRUMMOND begged to ask Lord John Russell whether the government had received the accounts ef the breaking nut of the Dyaks in acts of piracy, on the 3rd day of Februat y, in Salearrun, under the command of the pirate Rentab. who unfortunately escaped in the action with Capt. Farquhar ; the forcible coming out of a hallo (or as semblage for warlike, purposes), in war vessels (bangongs) ; and the attacking the forts at the mouths of the rivers &kaftan and !Ujung, by which Mr. Lee and many persons with him lost their lives ; again rendering insecure to mer cantile interests the whole coast of Borneo. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the government had re ceived information from Sir J. Brooke before he left this ' country, stating that accounts had reached him that piracy had recommenced in Borneo, and that a collision had taken place, although he (Lord J. Rueseli) did not.remensher- all the particulars stated by the hon. gentleman. On hearing that, Lord Clarendon had written to the First Lord of the Admiralty requesting that he would direct the attention of the admiral on the station to the state of affairs, and his right hon. friend the First Lord bad given the necessary directions. HUME asked whether the noble lord was aware of the fact that these alleged acts of piracy took place 70 miles up the country ? PILOTAGE BILL. Mr. DEEDES asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, seeing that the Canada Clergy Reserves Bill was fixed first for Monday, he would postpone the second read ing of the Pilotage Bill to another day. Mr. CARD WELL would not say that he would poatpone the Pilotage Bill, as he hoped the Canada Clergy Reserves Bill would be over in time to enable him to proceed with the bill. Mr. DEEDES inquired if it would be taken after tea o'clock. Lnrd J. RUSSELL—It will not be proceeded with at a very late hour. SHERIFFS' COURTS (SCOTLAND) BILL. In answer to Mr. COWAN, The LORD ADVOCATE said he proposed to refer the Sheriff.' Courts (Scotland) Bill to a select committee. THE DOCKYARD APPOINTMENTS. Sir B. HALL said that on Tuesday he had given notice of a motion with regard to dockyard promotions and ap pointments, and he then said that he should be prepared this evening to state the precise words of his motion. Ho was so prepared ; but in consequence of a communication he had received from the hon. member for Northamptonshire (Mr. Stafford) he would postpone doing so until tomorrow (this day). In reference to that subject, he wished to ask the First Lord of tOe Admiralty whether there was in the record.' of the Admiralty the minute of the board cancelling the order of 29th Sept. 1849, and authorising the Secretary of the Admiralty to issue a circular directing that all reports and correspondence relative to promotions and ap pointments should be sent to the Secretary to the Admiralty and not to the Surveyor of the Navy, as had been previously directed ; also whether there was in the records of the office any copy of a letter written by Sir Baldwin Walker to the Duke of Northumberland, dated 10th of May, 1852, with his answer; and also whether there was an; minutr of the ap pointment of Mr. Wells as master smith of Portsmouth Dockyard, and any letter of recommendation on his behalf from Sir Baldwin Walker. Sir J. GRAHAM thanked the hon. baronet for having given full notice of those questions. With respect et the first question, he had made inquiry, and he found that there was no such minute at all on reclrd ; neither was there any recsrd in existence of the letter to which the second ques tion referred. But it was to be observed that a letter ad dressed to the First Lord of the Admiralty was not in the same position as a letter addressed to the Secretary to the Admiralty. Every communication addressed to the Secre tary was recorded; but it was within the discretion of the First Lord himself whether he would take copies of, or record the letters proceeding to or from himself directly. With respect to the question relating to Mr. Wells, the answer was that there was not on record the original minute appointing Mr. Wells; but that there was a copy of the surveyor's recommendation of the 9th September, 1852 ; and there would be no objection, on the part of the board, to produce that letter. Sir B. BALL gave notice that he would move for copies of the correspondence (as we understood) respecting the Admiralty promotion of Lieut. Engleilue, engaged In the service of the Peninsular and Oriental Company. rf%OTAGK 1 RTES. Mr. HUME moved ii;;opioiw schedule list of the several rates of pilotage charged by the pilots under the TrinitHouse, Deptford Stroud, and the pilots under the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports ; together with the ex isting regulations and orders, by each of these departments, for the instruction and information of the shipowners and masters of vessels ; and showing also, in a corresponding column, the alterations and changes that are proposed to be made by the Pilotage Bill before the house, in alleviation and reduction of the charges of pilotage now sanctioned by these departments on the merchant shipping of this country, and on foreign ships. Mr. IMBUES objected to the production of these papers ; but after a conversation with Mr. Cardwell, who refused to join in the objection, The returns were ordered. BIRTH OF A PRINCE. Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said—Before the house proceeds to the orders of the day they will be anxious, with those feelings of loyalty which distinguish this house, to congratulate her Majesty—(loud cheers)—upon the event which has this day occurred. (Loud cheers.) I refer to the birth of another prince. Relying upon those feelings of loyalty, and being assured that this house always sympa thises in every circumstance contributing to her Majesty's domestic happiness—(loud cheers)—l will not add an other word, but will content myself with moving that a humble address, de. (The noble lord here read the usual address.) (Loud cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI—I have the honour, sir, to second this motion; and I will only say, I am sure that the affectionate feelings ..f loyalty which pervade all classes of the commu nity render motions of this kind, on such occasions, some thing more than mere ceremonies. (Loud cheers.) For it is felt, I am sure, that with the continuance and good for , tune of the royal house which now relens in these realms are associated the destinies of the land. (Loud cheers.) The motion was agreed to with acclamation. COMMISSION JO INQUIRE INTO CORRUPT PRACTICES AT CAMBRIDGE. Mr. V. SMITH, pursuant to notice, moved "an address for a commission to inquire into corrupt practices at elec tions at Cambridge ;—Graham Wilmore, Esq., Q.C., George Boden, Esq., and Thomas Tower, Esq., commis sioners:" and, preliminary, presented a petition praying such a commission from inhabitants of Cambridge. Sir .1. V. SHELLEY seconded the motion, which was agreed to ; and Mr. V. SMITIL went up to demand a conference ; re turned, and reported that their lordships had been pleased to grant a conference. A number of gentlemen were accordingly appointed by the house to manage the conference ; and the usual for malities were gone through. IRISH CONSOLIDATED ANNUITIES. Mr. G. MOORE moved, pursuant to notice, " That, in the opinion of this house, it is the duty of her Majesty's gov ernment forthwith to take into consideration the Irish consolidated annuities, in order to effect a more equitable settlement of the claims for which those annuities were granted, by remitting the amount charged on account of the Labour Rate Acts, 9 and 10 Vic., c. 107, and 10 and 11 Vic., c. 87, whilst the repayment of the workhouse loans, the advances for temporary relief, Act 10 Vic., c. 7, the advances for public works, under the Acts 1 Vic., c. 21, and 9 Vic., c. 1, and for aid to the distressed district., under .the Act 13 Vic., c. 14, are fully provided for." In introducing this subject, he might say in preferring the claims made by a whole cauntry, he asked for the indulgence and patient hearing of the house on the ground that the ma.frr was en.i.ely one of statement and detail, resting on no broad principles upon which conclusions could be come to irrespective of the minute facts. The claim was just or unjust, reasonable or unreasonable, precisely as the facts he would lay befare the house might make it one or the other. lie desired, how ever, that it would be understood be was coming rawer.' with no beggar's petition, based ou the distress .1 Ireland, or the special distress of particular uuions in Ireland ; but !amide a distinctelaim, based on what he would make out as a clear case of plain justice. It was a claim which bad already received the imprimatur of a committee of the 'House of Lords, consisting certainly of some noble lor la interested in the result, hut else of other peers with unsur passed reputations for statesmanship and independence. He referred to Lord Clarendon, the Duke of Newcastle, Lord Salisbury, Lord Lansdowne, Lord Normanby, Lord Derby, Lord Carlisle, Lord Harrowhy, Lord Beaumont, and Lord Ashburton. The evidence brought before the committee, and on which the committee reported, was the evidence of witnesses of the very highest authority, being gen tiemen who had been directly concerned in the administration of the financial matters involved; and among those witnesses the greatest value win to be attached, although all his testimony had had the contrary effect he intended, to the evidence of Sir Charles Trevelyan. (Hear, hear.) More amusing as well as more instructive evident* had never been read. The laudation of Sir Charles Trevelyan by Sir Charles Trevelyan was endless, and throughout there appeared on the part of the witness the most intense unconsciousness that he could ever have made a mistake. Certainly nothing that person ever did had succeeded; no prediction he ever made had come to pass; disasters had foliowed his every attempt in every direction, and lie had increased every dis aster by every attempt he had made to supply a remedy. But he had nut the slightest suspicion of the causes of such a sinister career; everyone was to blame but himself ; everything but that which he had done had been dune at the wrong time or in the wrong way ; and he made out that the Irishman and Divine Providence were in league together to perplex his plans and to confound his hopes. (Laughter.) lie (Mr. Moore) was aware of the influence which Sir Charles Trevelyan still wielded over the govern ment ; and when he saw a dogmatist whom no experience could touch, no practice enlighten—a practical blun derer, whose self-complacence failure seemed only to harden, still in a powerful position, he confessed, to his astonish ment, that such a man, looked upon by all parties with un limited distrust, should have been retained hy any adminis tration. Backed by such evidence, the inquiry of the Lords' committee was elabarate ; and their recommendations, finally, were precisely the claims which he was now urging on the House of Commons. Ho was far from asking that house to direct its proceedings by the views of any com mittee, least of all of a committee not issuing from itself; but he did ask with confidence that a due weight should be attached to the opinions of a body con stituted of the distinguished men whom he had named. This committee were in the nature of a jury appointed to take evidence on the subject and pronounce a verdict ; and, whether they looked at the constitution of the committee itself, or the character of their proceedings, it appeared to him that their verdict was entitled to as much con sideration as the verdict of any jury that hid ever been pronounced. It was right, however, that he should show that they (the Irish people) came before the house not only with this testimony but with clean hands. The Irish people had never sought to repudiate any contract which they had entered into. Advances for public works in Ireland did not commence in 1845, but long pre viously and in ten years the Irish people had repaid 'four millions which bad been advanced, though those were years of distress. Ile hoped, therefore, a good opinion would be entertained of the desire of the Irish com munity to discharge their just debts. What distinction was to be drawn between those loans which they had repaid with so much promptitude, and those which they now sought to be relieved from ? One distinction had been stated by Sir John Burgoyne: that he had always found the people of Ireland to fulfil any contract they bad volun tarily entered into, but that be had always made a distinc tion between a voluntary and an involuntary subscription. But he (Mr. Moore) could not rely on that distinction, be cause he could not deny the right of the state to compel the community to be party to a contract ; but he thought that the legislature became extraordinarily responsible for such an extraordinary control over the property of the public, and that parliament was bound to show that it had exer cised its great powers to the advantage of the public, and to the least possible detriment to property ; and if it could be shown that parliament had exercised its powers to the greatest possible disadvantage to the public and detriment to property, he thought that to charge the cost of that on the sufferers would be the greatest injus tice. He found that this committee had uaanimously declared that the mode of relief under which the greater part of these charges had arisen was in its essence uofit to cope with the emergency, and that it was continued after warning and full experience of its inadequacy, and that while on the one hand it generated the seeds of disease and death it seduced the people from their natural occupations, and thus deteriorated the value of property and diminished the future means of subsistence. In 1845 the potato disease first appeared, and with the widest pre science) the great statesman who then held the helm of affairs made arrangements by which a considerable quantity of Indian corn was laid up in store to meet, as far as possible the failure of the potato. The expenditure in 1845.6 did not amount to 45,0001., and the largest amount of persons employed daily did not reach 8.5,000, whereas in the subsequent year the expenditure rose to four millions and a halt, and the number daily employed was more than 700,000. He found that in April, 1846, a letter was written to the Treasury, stating that they could rot find engineers and superintendents enough for the multitude of labourers that would be forced upon them. That was written when the average number in daily employment was 75,000, and yet he found that government and parliament were con tented to leave the fortunes of a whole people to the opera tion of an act precisely similar in nature but with some sm. difications. The disease is the potato, which had partial destroyed the crop in 1845, utterly swept it away in 184 6, sod the corn crop was so seriously damaged as materially to' isseavata the calamity. It had been stated by Mr. Grif fith that the loss in potatoes and oats in that year mounted to 16 millions sterling. To meet this dis aster the Labour Rate Act was passed, which enabled and required the Lord-Lieutenant on representations being made to him to call together extraordinary presentment sessions composed of magistrates and rate payers, who were, in their turn, empowered and required without previona surveys, without maps, without estimates, M pass a sufficient number of public works to support this distressed population. It was the opinion of the law officers K the crown that it was impossible to undertake works wader this act except such as were ordinarily placed under the management of the grand jury—that was to say, the making of new and the repairing of old roads. No doubt government, when they passed the act, did not anticipate the full extent of the calamity, but Sir Charles Trevelyan avowed that in November the system of public works bad broken down. That being so, why was not parliament mumbled ? It was amembled in November of the following year to soothe a panic in the City, and last year to report the progress of the election and ascertain the state of parties. Surely the lives of a whole people were of more importance. New, with regard to these works, Sir John Burgoyne, in his evidence, stated, that in many ways they were attended with injurious effects, and that they were discontinued when roads were half made, and excavations for drains were incomplete. The Treasury determined not to adopt useful works, lent they should 'confer some benefit on individuals. He contended, with tfie greatest respect, that parliament had no right to deal with the property of others after this fashion. But, in addition to this, he con- tended that the Irish people, in consequence of these works, had sustained a greater loss than the amount to be now recovered under the act. On the 16th January, 1847, the chairman of the Board of Works reported that the want of food was driving everybody to the works. and that the public works offered • direct premium to labourers to quit their ordinary useful occupations, and that they in tact 'afforded subsistence to the agricultural labourer only, on condition that be left his ordinary work. Then Major Markham said, it was universally reported to them that there was very little tillage going on, and that the small cultivators were unable to cultivate their holdings, inas much as they were obliged to attend to the public works. In April, May and June, in which the operations of tillage were conducted, the number of labourers at the works ave raged 440,000, which was one-fourth of the whole of the agricultural labourers of Ireland ; and it was found that the diminution in the harvest of that year was exactly in the same proportion. The land had lain waste. Parliament, however, at last passed the act commonly and honourably known as the Burgoyne Act. The labour test of the doctrinaires was ex ploded, charity was permitted to do its own work in its good old form, food was gratuitously distributed to those who were in want of it, and by that means upwards of two millions and a half of human beings were kept alive at scoot for five months of 1,700,0001„ er at less than a penny a day each. All the witnesses concurred in speaking of this as a favourable change, a change to less than one penny a day. B utproi passel with the Burgoyne Act another act was passed which for the first time gave tnem an e ffi cient poor-law in Ireland. He thought that that poor law would have a great effect on the future prospects of Ireland, but he considered that parliament was responsible for not having given them it before. He did not state these facts in any spirit of bitterness or reproach, but in a full reliance upon the justice and fair ness which had of late characterised the proceedings of the house. If the legislature had only acted with regard to Ire land ever since the Union in the way in which it seemed now disposed to do—if it had only taken pains to regulate the relations between landlord and tenant, and to control by means of a sound poor law the pauperism of the coun try, though to was not prepared to say that the failure of the potato would not have been a very severe loss, yet it would hare been one against which Ireland would have been able to make a stout and successful struggle. (Hear, hear.) The sum contributed in 1848 was 1,619,0001., in 1849 1,674,0001., in 1850 1,500.0001., and in 1851 I,3oo,oool.—making above six millions raised for the support of the poor at • time when property had sunk to • lower depth than ever property had sunk before. From Sir Charles Trevelyan's explanation of the mode in which it was proposed that these advances should be repaid, it ap peared that 4s. in the pound was the maximum rate. 1 When the rates for the ordinary expenses of poor law relief reached that amount, nothing 1 was to be repaid, but when the ordinary rates were less than 45.. the difference was to be applied to the discharge of the loans. It was hardly conceivable that a plan could be de vised more destructive to all forethought and frugality. The union which by any extravagance could keep up its rates to four shillings had to repay nothing ; but if a union could bring its expenditure down to three shillings, it would have it raised to four shillings again, to pay off • consolidated annuity. (Hear, hear.) In canclusion, he trusted that the house would assent to his proposition. (Cheers.) Mr. FRENCH, in seconding the motion, stated his opi ni sn that the report of the Lords Committee was both just and moderate. He felt bound to express his surprise that his hon. friend the member for Mayo should have had to bring forward the subject at all ; and he did not think the Irish members bad been at all fairly treated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had listened with regret to a portion of the speech in which the subject was treated as though it was a question between Ireland on one hand and Sir Charles Tweelyan on the other. Sir Charles was au eminently Lonest, able, and indefatigable men ; and yet the hon. geutlernan had described him in terms which ho had never heard applied by any member of pitrli meet to one of teat most valuable class of the civil service, who had no means of defending themselves when ettaceed in that house, whose useful ad vice and successful propositions invariably redounded to the credit and honour of the ministers, and whose advice and propositions therefore ' iu all caeca ought to he ch arge d to ' the responeibility of the ministers, and if they had not suc ceeded, they ought not to be made the bans of a gross per son a attack. Sir Charles had been denounced as a dog. flutist, a thcori-t, a practical blunderer, one who spared nothing, mid who scrupled at nothing. Few e men in that house would hue made such an attack ; and he doubted whether the hon. geutlellllll himself would be hereafter inclinee to repeat it. (fleer, hear.) Whatever Sir C. Trevelyan might have done, or advised iu this matter, it was not to be laid to his door, but to that of the government. If the measure had beim unseuud in principle, or unsuccessful in practice, it WAS the govern ment ot the day that must bear the blame. (Hear, hear.) Ile never remembemd a fieenciel proposition made to the House of Cowmen, being supported almost exclusively by a report from a committee of tee House of Lords. Ile en tirely demurred from the description given of that report by the hon. member fur Mayo, who said it was a high and commanding authority. He del not admit the iloeerine that a report of the Muse of Lards uu tie:trice was to be regarded not only a- deserving attention, hut as a high and commanding authority. (Hear, hoar.) It ought rather to be received with sonic jeel iusy by that body, which WAS entrusted with the duty of ruing the people, and saddling burdens upou them. But Mr. French went very greatly beyond the recommendations of that committee, mid spe cified various puree's of the consolidated annuities, Meolving a very liege sum of money, the remission of which he thought was 'a debt due to Ireland, although rho committee of the House of Lords hal declined to make any such recommend thin. The hon. gentleman thought the committee of the House of Lords did net eo fir enough. He seemed to think that what Ireland had expended . in former years for the relief of its own poor constituted a valid claim against the exchequer of this country, became an opinion hail been previously expressed that tee cost of the relief of the poor would not exceed a certain amount, one because that amount had been exceeded. (Hear, hear.) He (tlie Chanccllur) declined to notice those arguments, because they were nut within the scope of the motion be fore them. Mr. eleore had rested his mutiett on the strictest grounds of justice, not as a bo, o, or as an equit able consideration ; and lie feuded himself upon charges against government and parliament, who, he suid, had been guilty of great misdeeds in respect to Ireland, the con sequences of which Ireland ought not to bear. The hon. gentleman had not made good these statements. Ile charged the government with having intruded them selves into the position and usurped the functions of the landed proprietors in Ireland. (" hear, hear," from Mr. Moore.) lie said that the relict chosen was con:learned by Ireland—of tour is, that meant at the time, if it meant any thiog—(laughter)—that the parties who administered it had seduced the labourers, caused deaths and starvation wheel would not otherwise have taken place, and dimi nished the amount of human subsistence in the country ; and all that he said, was wound up by prescutiug to Ire land a long bill, which she was to pay in consideration of the immense wrongs that we had inflicted upon her. It might have been said that when parliament enacted the pour law, that was something like au assumption of the functions of the landed proprietore appreheuded few people were now of @pillion that parliament had erred in passing that law, lie believed that it was the general opinion that the country at large, and Ireland owed a debt of gratitude to the noble lord (Lord J. Rus sell) for having passed that measure. (Hear, hear.) If parliament put itself into the place of the landed pro prietors, it was under the pressure of a very strong neces sity, and because the landowners would not discharge those functions themselves. But he did not admit that parlia ment had done this, or that this law was forced upon Ireland. What were the provisions of the law? The public works bed to be presented by an extraordinary ses sion of magistrates, and by them sent up to the lord-lieu tenant. That was not setting aside the landowners of Ireland. The lord-lieutenant could not even stir in the matter, except upon a representation that there was dis tress existing in the district; and even then he could only act upon a presentment made by a session consisting of the landed proprietors. (hear, hear.) Cases had been quoted by the hon. gentlemen where presentments had been, so to speak, extorted from the local parties, and the works exe cuted against their wish. The figures distinctly showed that those cases, if they did occur, were exceptions, and did ant represent the general role What were the facts ? That by the extraordinary presentment sessions is Ireland under the Lamer Rate Act of 1346, presentments had been made amounting in all to 6,617,000 t. Present ments were made by the landowners fir public works to this extent. The extent executed was 4,463,0001. accord. ing to one account ; according to another something more. It appeared that works to the extent of two millions were preseated by the parties locally interested which were never sanctioned at all. The complaint was, not that too few of those works had been executed, but that they were exe cuted either in defiance of, or without the will, of the landed proprietors, and that three proprietors, upon whom uitimately a portion of the burden must fall, were neglected seed set aside. Ou the contrary, the structure of the act showed that there was the utmost anxiety that landowners should be entrusted with us much of this duty, and have u much discretion as possible; and measures were taken to prevent its being said that they had been set aside, and charges forced upon them in despite ed their own deliberate judgment. lie might refer in proof to the discussions which took place in that house when the act was passed. It was very easy . to be wise after the event. But the famine came on with giant strides, and their machinery broke down; when parliament met again, they immediately pro ceeded to amend it; but great mischief had been done, no doubt, in the interval. Teat being so, how could they (the Irish proprietors) exempt themselves from their fair share of the responsibility, because it pleased Providence that the extent and range of the calamity exeeded all anticipation and all human strength. On the score of justice, therefore, there was no ground for the claim. If it had been proved that Parliament had been deliberately wrong—that Ireland had by the moutn of her representatives protested against the act, there might be some reason for the claim set up ; but the hon. gentleman had not addressed himself to that point at all ; nor did he show that the management of the remedy which had been pasted fur the relief of Ireland had been taken nut of the hands of the Irish landed proprietors. The hon. gentleman said, that in answer to the depu tation which waited on him on this subject, Int had stated in reply, that he would deal with this subject irrespective of the budget. Not only did he not say that but he said the very reverse. Having been but a short time in office, and being pressed for re mission of taxation on all sides, he must indeed have been out of his senses if he told the deputation that he would give an immediate answer on a subject which involved a sum of 5,000,0001. He had said, on the contrary, that in the view of the goverumetet this question of the consoli dated annuities ought to be dealt with in conjunction with the general financial arrangements of the country. He could not, therefore, announce the intention of the govern ment on this subject, except; in connexion with the budget. lie would on the 18th state the views of the government on the whole of the finances of the country, and ho trusted, therefore, that neither of the hon. gentlemen who had brought this ques tion forward would think it disrespectful if he declined at the present moment tram entering further into it. (Hear, hear.) His public duty bound him to be silent for that short time. At preheat he had no more to say than that in his opinion the hon. gentlemen had not made good their case, which they stated it was their intention to prove, namely, a case of wrong and oppression committed on the people of Ireland at the period of the famine, en the strength of which they asked fur a remission of a sum of money to the extent of between 2,000,e001. and 3,000,0001., not as a matter of equitable consideration, but on the ground of strict right. (Hear, hear.) He would therefore oppose theemotion. Mr. H. A. HERBERT thought that the right hon. gen tleman was justified in selecting his own time ter making his statemeut on this subject. He (Mr. Herbert) would re serve any remarks he had to make till the right hon. gen tleman made Ins financial statement ; but at the same time he quite concurred in most of what had been said by his hon. friend the member of Mayo. Lord .1. RUSSELL said he had hoped the time had ar rived, now that seven years bad elapsed since the occurrence of the famine in Ireland, when they could look dispassion ately at all the circumstances connected with that calamity ; and would have acknowledged the difficulties to which the government, the Board of Works, the Irish landlords, the Lord-Lieutenant, and Sir C. Trevelyan were then exposed. But he was sorry to say that was not the case. With regard to the document of the House of Lords, he was of opinion that its statements were well-founded, and that it gave, so far as it went, an accurate picture of the circumstances. (Hear, hear.) What he considered to be the fault of that report was the total omission of the main subject which they had to consider, namely, that there was a great famine and a great calamity, and that it was the bounden duty of every person of influence to endeavour to miti gate it, and that it could be mitigated only by endea vouring to save the lives of the people, who were starving in consequence of that misfortune. It noticed, but only incidentally, that lives had been saved by the application of the remedies which were proposed. lie would admit that errors might have been committed by the government and others, ;but the question was, whether although they committed those errors, they had not achieved the main end—the saving of the lives of a great number of persons. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentlemen who moved and seconded this motion said that the government of this country im posed an unjust burden on the Irish proprietors witnout their consent. But the hon. gentleman who had just spoken put the question much more fairly when he said that the proprietors in Ireland, when they came to consider and vote the relief work!, could not exercise a fair and just discretion on these matters, in consequence of the clamour of the people. He admitted that was a fair description of the case, but then it was not consistent with the statements of the hon. mover and seconder of the mo tion, that these proprietors were debared by the govern ment from taking any part in the matter. Either one er the other statement—both could not be true, lie believed that the statement of the hon. gentleman was the true one : but it did not fellow from that, the government were wrong in ' proposing a measure of this kind, because it was im possible to forme the extent of the calamity, or that the landed proprietors could not exercise a wile and temperate discretion on the subject. Ills late noble friend the Earl of Bessborough. whine knueledge of Ireland sad whose sagacity had been admitted, was the person on whose representations the main provisions of the Labour leek Act were le uu :see. His advice •r